< 1312157206 708304 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1312157575 345563 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_ your god won't give you pets < 1312157584 935926 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to cause the 'charm' effect on a monster < 1312157606 796854 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if you give a treat to cats/dogs/horses they become tame (results may vary) < 1312157918 568759 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312158008 840526 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312158124 950276 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179112092.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, hmm, let me read up on treats < 1312158150 271289 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179112092.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, btw, all my monk's spells are nearly 100% fail.. how do i fix that? it's not getting better as i level up < 1312158185 299872 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you wearing armour? < 1312158316 756900 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop playing nethack and your spells will be 0% < 1312158634 575771 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohai < 1312158905 980759 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179112092.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, it was all that metal i was wearing < 1312158930 531206 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Penthouse... < 1312159649 417687 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312160586 111951 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312162254 294074 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1312162340 824877 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1312162412 517712 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312162449 556543 :glogbot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312162449 578457 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1312162691 181386 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312163601 51962 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312163777 909996 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1312164043 442846 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312165154 793939 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312165164 801230 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312165191 78731 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picked up Gödel, Escher, Bach today. This ought to be interesting. < 1312165224 918176 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-230-75.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1312165305 320750 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1312165329 319813 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Appropriate, considering Sgeo's realisation of the true nature of Lewis Carol [sic]. < 1312165334 52031 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hofstadter's too talky < 1312165344 821202 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far he certainly seems to be. < 1312165353 421798 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm a quick reader, so I'm not too troubled by it. < 1312165364 522308 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't exactly display much in the way of attention span, either :D < 1312165387 119192 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm leery when people start talking about Zen and Gödel in the same book O.o < 1312165462 209041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, considering the number of pages that isn't a major issue < 1312165468 264591 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a computer scientist. :P < 1312165560 588178 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always feel like the odd one out because I'm a computer scientist but not a mystic :D < 1312165593 163395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, haha < 1312165657 752622 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are those would say you've just not yet fully appreciated the magic of computation. < 1312165692 124153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, whatever < 1312165705 993568 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a mathematician, too. There's no magic over here :P < 1312165718 949493 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't appreciate the model :D < 1312165731 402021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1312165808 754456 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just have modesty enough to admit that computation is at that magical level of "sufficiently advanced". < 1312165833 796480 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics too. < 1312165875 611392 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a model for modesty. Is it published? < 1312165899 907702 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1312165917 453203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, hm... I'm not sure I agree < 1312165923 544533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, transistors are pretty simple < 1312165935 647653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so are logic gates made out of transistors (CMOS at least) < 1312165954 408575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making up simple circuits is easy < 1312165959 888414 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but that's a particular implementation of computation. < 1312165960 205471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and combining those is easy < 1312165965 753109 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the topic as a whole. < 1312165973 8355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus making a CPU is easy, since it combines < 1312165976 147558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1312166000 580454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, however if you try to look at transistors to full CPU in one go, then yes, it is pretty magical < 1312166020 419224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to break it down info the layers of abstraction used < 1312166037 486655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, and hm. Not sure I agree :P < 1312166108 857719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Your computer does more calculations in an hour than all of humanity could do in a year. < 1312166113 675200 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really jumped straight into the deep end. What is the nature of computation, does it have intrinsic meaning, etc. < 1312166119 5507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1312166119 219826 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's sufficiently advanced mathematic. < 1312166122 300894 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1312166123 159478 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic. < 1312166143 226078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the thing is, when you consider each layer of abstraction alone then it doesn't seem very magic < 1312166151 927134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :while for the whole, it is < 1312166211 322585 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But of course. Chemicals don't seem very magical (well, alchemists might disagree) but the emergent behaviours of self-organisation and intellect are pretty wondrous, if you ask me. < 1312166212 30105 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the more exposure you get, the more "magic" slides up the scale < 1312166228 798039 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not about not understanding them. < 1312166237 342290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, indeed < 1312166239 342838 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Only if you ascribe meaning to random/deterministic events < 1312166240 182474 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about appreciating their self-evident beauty. < 1312166254 506037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1312166278 37310 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's random *or* deterministic. I haven't fully decided which view of the universe I find most pleasant < 1312166286 579974 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free will's right out, though, obviously < 1312166303 528900 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Why not deterministic behaviour emergent from a nondeterministic substrate? It works. < 1312166324 68945 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elaborate < 1312166342 811981 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, free will may not exist, but as far as humans are concerned, it might as well, since we're not equipped to understand the processes at work. < 1312166366 685090 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It really gets down to what you mean by "free will". < 1312166370 124589 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, random input + deterministic rules = deterministic emergent behaviour. < 1312166398 53234 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there may be no rules < 1312166406 383648 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Physics? < 1312166428 168498 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's the trump card. Physics is sort of the essential ruleset of the universe. < 1312166432 145515 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1312166440 256029 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears that way < 1312166451 305665 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, go faster than light. Right now. < 1312166457 894181 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how < 1312166467 191557 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need to? < 1312166473 62772 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1312166487 873825 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also don't really need to go faster than light < 1312166496 34838 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If physical law were breakable by mere disagreement, the universe wouldn't be nearly so interesting. :P < 1312166521 313785 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, as far as we know, the kind of creature that has the capacity to disagree is fairly rare. < 1312166535 950815 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312166537 906800 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But think about who devised the rules. Animals possessed of self-designed logical systems, attributing phenomena to objects in those systems < 1312166545 84632 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reliability is tenuous at best < 1312166584 656499 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just random brain signals < 1312166592 273040 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way of telling, really < 1312166606 560068 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's the basis of science. You can't really prove anything true. < 1312166612 794292 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1312166618 92282 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can demonstrate that it's reliably true under given circumstances. < 1312166633 60876 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's a pragmatic attitude. < 1312166641 279962 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't really care if things don't work the way they seem to. < 1312166644 745835 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pragmatism has no place in #esoteric < 1312166645 731544 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we'll never find out. < 1312166646 521518 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtfo < 1312166648 784422 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312166685 599990 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By definition, we can only gain an understanding of things that do have a seeming, regardless of what that particular seeming is. < 1312166705 356984 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore anything that doesn't seem isn't observable or understandable. < 1312166724 176251 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Therefore/In other words/. < 1312166734 470343 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : But you can demonstrate that it's reliably true under given circumstances. <-- or at least we think so < 1312166738 474546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we trust our brains? < 1312166752 937419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we just having an illusion of that our brains exist? < 1312166765 513587 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't matter. We rely on them implicitly, so transitive reliances are inevitable. < 1312166781 419651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, can we however rely on them at all? < 1312166794 878634 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again, doesn't matter. Pragmatically we have to. < 1312166795 35252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no choice < 1312166797 820851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can we really < 1312166813 478071 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do, so yes. Should we? Don't know. Don't care. < 1312166821 889281 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pragmatism really has no place in a universe without free will < 1312166857 470384 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all. If we can't observe the things that deny us free will, then we have as much free will as we think we do. < 1312166878 505751 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why must something deny you free will? < 1312166882 233526 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in practical terms we do have free will. < 1312166884 207353 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may just not have it < 1312166892 966484 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to find a better word. < 1312166899 611952 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The opposite of "give". < 1312166903 843900 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not give". < 1312166912 380763 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If some neurobiologists are correct, the idea of free will may be generated ex post facto < 1312167161 496229 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we're going to talk about cats < 1312167170 491017 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a cat, evincar < 1312167171 359789 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1312167173 667927 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a reliable means of counting characters in a Unicode string? < 1312167193 331361 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code points aren't characters, so even UTF-32 is variable-width wrt characters. :( < 1312167205 17931 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1312167304 122652 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, I have two. A Tortoiseshell that's afraid of everything, as Torties are wont to be, and a Maine Coon mix that is deaf and hunts mice and doesn't afraid of anything. < 1312167316 840136 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4579215/cross-platform-iteration-of-unicode-string-counting-graphemes-using-icu < 1312167326 699701 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mice/anything that moves, even if she is absurdly outclassed/ < 1312167343 827006 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neato < 1312167372 106931 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bluh. I don't really want to use ICU. < 1312167525 786964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, "doesn't afraid"? < 1312167526 480107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312167538 319279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean "isn't"? < 1312167539 526484 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet speak < 1312167549 798309 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You aren't familiar with it? < 1312167552 340912 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wtf, you haven't heard this meme before? < 1312167556 181263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, nope < 1312167565 750787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it means "isn't"? < 1312167567 844004 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/pretty-cool-guy#.TjYWeXOX0y4 < 1312167570 972091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how confusing < 1312167594 1984 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think Halo is a pretty cool guy. eh kills aleins and doesn't afraid of anything..." < 1312167622 93502 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of want to watch Red vs. Blue, now < 1312167638 645874 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a reference to a specific formulation of a similar sentence at one specific time, thinking about the grammar is meaningless < 1312167674 154648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312167703 744952 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of thinking about grammar, I'm thinking about thinking about grammar. < 1312167708 903652 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically working on another conlang. < 1312167725 526010 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What properties would it have? < 1312167736 391560 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think again about thinking about thinking about grammar < 1312167772 825754 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think so? WELL THINK AGAIN < 1312167818 606642 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. I keep running into agglutinative languages lately, so I might do something with that, but I really don't like synthesis. < 1312167839 473385 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: think again about thinking again? THINKCEPTION < 1312167839 677593 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming has made me drool over analytic languages. < 1312167845 536022 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BWAAAAH < 1312167856 455263 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: FWAABUMBAHBAHBOOSH < 1312167862 500948 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: http://ithkuil.net/ < 1312167874 103097 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I know about that, actually. < 1312167879 356404 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my favorites < 1312167887 210274 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the fuck he was thinking borrowing a consonant inventory from Ubykh. < 1312167890 896854 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's doing a big update, actually < 1312167899 260542 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making the whole thing a bit easier to pronounce < 1312167907 238529 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the pronunciation was the easy part, really < 1312167911 194484 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of all the languages NOT to borrow a consonant inventory from. God. < 1312167933 623594 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do appreciate the scope of the work, though. < 1312167977 732498 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again I don't believe in philosophical or logical languages. < 1312167993 54074 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not surprised < 1312167996 929686 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312168013 534233 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with a posteriori, but a priori is preferable. < 1312168019 548446 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like mostly original works. < 1312168031 912678 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it means I'm not going to be able to read an example text right away. < 1312168081 445940 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, authors often unwittingly make reference to their native tongues. < 1312168096 449819 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also state obvious facts. :D < 1312168104 647655 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of languages as navigating on a 2d plane < 1312168110 137989 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell you how many Latin clones I've read < 1312168112 68463 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your word for "book" is "htap", I'm betting you're from India or thereabouts. < 1312168148 74066 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I know. Esperanto at least has a nice community. < 1312168187 385485 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't need another Interlingua or Latine Sine Flexiones or [insert variation on "Lingua International" here]. < 1312168201 148315 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though most Esperantinos I know are insufferable < 1312168281 724900 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think words divide conceptual space up in such a way that each concept is concise < 1312168299 847557 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Square < 1312168311 415680 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a concise concept < 1312168335 428800 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you talk about squareness < 1312168336 217571 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except words don't divide conceptual space at all. Consider synonyms and homographs. < 1312168364 489567 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many words overlap, and most regions of conceptual space aren't covered by individual words. < 1312168380 317963 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some whole regions aren't covered at all, depending on language < 1312168385 628579 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh humm < 1312168394 774201 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't tell me you're a linguistic relativist, NihilistDandy. < 1312168400 201872 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Never < 1312168420 459554 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blanch at the very idea < 1312168428 358706 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although Spanish speakers are more likely to give a female voice to a cartoon character that is a table.) < 1312168439 397651 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mesa < 1312168453 432192 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a girl's name to me, mang < 1312168507 359675 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess natural language does affect the way we think about the world, but in insignificant ways. < 1312168534 610804 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming languages, on the other hand, have ridiculously high influence on problem decomposition strategies. < 1312168550 157561 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true < 1312168550 795257 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a thesis someone should do, and probably has. < 1312168590 374803 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming language all speak the same base language, though, English. A subset thereof, at least. < 1312168617 662900 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the differences are of a higher order, so the underlying language is secondary to the problem solving method < 1312168636 927011 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all programming languages are English-based. < 1312168641 726207 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, most of them :P < 1312168643 196077 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in word order, nor in keywords. < 1312168651 306421 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shouldn't say mosty < 1312168653 37247 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*most < 1312168666 929680 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many, and a large portion of the "major" languages < 1312168667 528102 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "most" is "more than half", so yeah, that's valid. < 1312168683 518321 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Think of how many esolangs there are floating around < 1312168729 984435 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stand corrected. < 1312168735 772499 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312168736 993758 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Odd place for me to be. < 1312168759 269562 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering the room we're in. :/ < 1312168762 672294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dangit, there is a nail in my keyboard < 1312168763 986390 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1312168764 198578 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: perhaps another way to word what i said is that words are imprecise tools which lack the precision of numbers < 1312168820 58339 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with numbers you can add a decimal point and seek out greater and greater precision < 1312168844 63822 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming languages are an attempt to model computation, but because humans have finite mental capacity, each language models it in a uniquely incomplete way (barring derivative languages). They model it fully in theory, but in practice they favor different strategies and so are only efficient for certain classes of computations < 1312168869 224782 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair though, numbers have limits especially irrational ones < 1312168872 878801 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: You're using two different meanings of precision < 1312168915 393298 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're dangerously close to a discussion of Gödel numbering. < 1312168947 261679 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gödel numbering :( < 1312168949 880309 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIVE ON THE EDGE, EVINCAR < 1312169134 576355 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of programming languages as being designed to be comprehendable by humans < 1312169148 902168 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: What about Malebolge? < 1312169166 374430 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a lot of crap < 1312169232 437637 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm...male bulge. < 1312169292 621819 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I wrote a language called Male Bulge... < 1312169300 414271 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd get a lot of attention < 1312169302 694267 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I'd release my Male Bulge and encourage people to wrap their heads around it? < 1312169316 456466 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'd have to respond with camlToe < 1312169322 298493 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: incredibly contrived oral sex pun) < 1312169347 650571 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And encourage others to implement your Male Bulge in my camlToe < 1312169428 823668 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar, I think everyone got the joke < 1312169443 506172 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not lately < 1312169448 715773 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T_T < 1312169452 682941 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trying to be funny, I'm trying to be pathetic. < 1312169465 658523 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pointing out my own bad jokes is my strategy. < 1312169481 566745 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Tara? < 1312169571 553572 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to be more specific < 1312169579 450399 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1312169608 100223 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/MyImmortal?from=Main.MyImmortal < 1312169618 241485 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that piece of garbage. < 1312169631 708779 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, lol < 1312169648 164265 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HER NAME ISN'T MARY SUE. EBONY'S NAME IS ENOBY. < 1312169648 896470 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a friend of mine read that, and he got a headache and had to stop by the end of chapter 3 < 1312169676 757911 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget how far I made it...less than halfway. < 1312169683 367578 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it all < 1312169684 807472 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to < 1312169691 648257 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowy and rainy at the same time." < 1312169691 819916 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to. I really was. < 1312169725 535860 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Im good at too many things! WHY CAN'T I JUST BE NORMAL? IT'S A FUCKING CURSE!" < 1312169730 290644 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel for you Enoby < 1312169744 494651 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I identified with the main character < 1312169754 587326 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have long ebony black hair with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears < 1312169764 433564 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totes me~ < 1312169770 235182 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emphasis mine < 1312169788 685170 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn. I bet all the other girls be jelly. < 1312169808 88441 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So jelly, bro < 1312169819 862657 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Das da kine. < 1312169848 996771 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312169991 123911 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their jst jelly abot how totly goffik i am < 1312170238 986805 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But da ballet could not kill u since u were form anodder time." < 1312170338 822145 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going back to my conlang, I was thinking of setting up a weird vowel system with unvoiced and ingressive vowels. < 1312170390 72674 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So say [a i u] times those four possible qualities. < 1312170400 147247 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312170413 919088 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ingressive fricative consonants. < 1312170419 769043 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for consistency. < 1312170424 740380 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1312170438 654067 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There would have to be air harmony, of course, or else words would be imbalanced. < 1312170479 152603 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euphony seems difficult. Japanese may have some pointers < 1312170486 26478 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit I'm only doing this so I can come up with a cool writing system for it. :P < 1312170517 679272 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312170525 308091 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and every other conlanger evar < 1312170610 23501 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, phonetics is easy. Typography is the fun part. < 1312170632 530327 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also grammar and morphology. Vocabulary not so much. < 1312170656 318030 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vocabulary is the worst part < 1312170703 751994 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you make your grammar really really expressive < 1312170796 94643 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, in the realm of discourse, unlike in programming, you can't really reduce the language to a set of fundamental roots. < 1312170813 1746 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :design a conlang with grammar so expressive that you only need one word. < 1312170824 13801 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the problem that I have with philosophical languages... < 1312170841 967761 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Define "word". < 1312170878 556490 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :root morpheme < 1312170888 893273 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you could easily have a language with one lexeme. < 1312170893 22024 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Right, but one person coming up with the thousands of lexemes needed to make a non-philosophical language usable... < 1312170896 234254 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1312170912 204378 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch indeed. < 1312170956 922254 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why most of my conlangs end during the honeymoon period while I'm still fussing over grammar and typography < 1312170973 658497 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could argue that a philosophical language with a perfect taxonomy, which presumably would be highly synthetic, would have only one (null) lexeme, and no roots. < 1312170974 564743 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I make up a thousand words and want to die < 1312171012 511848 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could argue that, but it needs more syntactic sugar :D < 1312171012 753672 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start with aardvark and go. < 1312171040 460891 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thanks. I'm sweet enough. < 1312171126 468236 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joke, you see, is that I said "sugar", and sugar is sweet < 1312171153 206629 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: don't argue it, design it < 1312171181 742122 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not possible. < 1312171186 814644 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1312171193 135393 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then die trying < 1312171198 856480 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not capable of decomposing the universe into a perfect taxonomy. < 1312171259 314764 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Math alone leaves us ruined < 1312171268 400727 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damnable infinity < 1312171822 783141 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. It's nice to have someone to miss, but not nice to have to miss that someone. < 1312171860 818874 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a better scope < 1312172003 219279 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean get a better perspective, or physically move? < 1312172024 211177 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean buy a new scope < 1312172033 754848 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in rifle < 1312172140 491347 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that would offer me a better perspective on certain matters, to be sure. < 1312172288 713913 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The heart is located conveniently in CBM < 1312172321 64708 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Je me fabrique un cœur de pierre, pour devenir un grand garçon. < 1312172341 372429 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not being emo, that's just from a song I like. :P < 1312172387 277535 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1312172437 580034 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a neat lyric, I gues < 1312172439 497230 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess < 1312172487 119677 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tais toi mon coeur", by Dionysos. Good music video as well. < 1312172499 582540 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno how well you grok French. < 1312172503 435588 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a joke about Forth to no avail. In fairness, it was just a lisp joke, so... < 1312172525 135265 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Well enough. Not fluently, but proficiently. < 1312172534 850562 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"May the Forth be with you" is a Lisp joke. ;) < 1312172543 75520 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly of that sort < 1312172552 968761 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figured. < 1312172590 481331 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<[redacted]> [redacted], that's nice to know... once i made one of those questions in the FORTH group and i was beaten up by some guys, and then they started fighting each other! lol < 1312172605 213599 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : [redacted]: Well, we're not going to Forth you to do anything you don't want to < 1312172639 552168 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there are any Lisp-agnostic Forth jokes < 1312172709 921971 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go Forth and prosper. < 1312172745 868274 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote the program in three different languages, but the Forth one was the best. < 1312172770 645374 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More historically accurate from what I remember.) < 1312172782 111027 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1312172843 885574 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those don't deserve a whole "Ha". < 1312172852 428993 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a third of a "ha" each. < 1312172892 450713 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1312172930 847871 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's only funny with the right font < 1312174844 471251 :evincar!~jon@d-rev-bng-70-20-47-126.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: UP UP AND AWAY ME < 1312174866 275854 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-429.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1312176428 125041 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312177095 700529 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312179197 471100 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to try Quassel < 1312179289 967035 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Switching IRC clients < 1312179630 393273 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312179707 462552 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall trying Quassel a year or so ago, and it was very crashy. < 1312179715 476770 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe it was just bad luck. < 1312179980 331567 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1312180010 973039 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, not so hot after all? < 1312180065 43288 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312180153 420333 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312180170 985980 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1312180633 55355 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312180666 395067 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312180730 881408 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I think I can deal with this < 1312180958 936579 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like the bestest client, if it barely can be "dealt with". < 1312180980 685744 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what I'm having to "deal with" is mostly the different look < 1312181213 624304 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's funny how Quassel's website is all "this uniqe feature [of doing the client/server model in a graphical app]" when as far as I can tell Smuxi did it a lot earlier. < 1312181230 397366 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, it might have been Smuxi which I tried and found sucky, instead. < 1312181365 754912 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312181398 933041 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my Facebook got hacked. < 1312181435 481554 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't everyone's Facebook the same Facebook? < 1312181442 569898 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1312181449 714749 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook got hacked < 1312181451 205209 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, wait... is it just like using irssi as a bouncer and connecting with whatever you want, except it's all in the one program? I don't get it < 1312181452 871260 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was the target < 1312181493 515108 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: It's pretty close to a bouncer except you can only connect to it with the program's own frontend, not any IRC client whatsoever. < 1312181494 210687 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: some convenience over that. Quassel is supposed to have some thing where scrolling automatically retrieves logs going all the way back < 1312181509 554499 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not even using it that way < 1312181523 863750 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That sounds like *one* convenience :D < 1312181532 943135 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's a bit silly < 1312181561 74106 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit of kludginess involved in having multiple clients connected to the same bouncer, which one hopes they'd have eliminated, but those are all rather minor stuff. < 1312181572 383399 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I like that it remembers which channels I'm in for when I close it < 1312181591 536357 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange, I _hate_ that sort of thing on desktop environments and web browsers < 1312181597 507752 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I'll like it here < 1312181952 975433 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing, testing, 1 2 3 < 1312181989 123964 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like a manually configurable list-of-automatically-on-channels more than auto-remembering, but that's of course a matter of taste. < 1312182091 623239 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really should try to read all the letters in a word and all the words in a sentence < 1312182110 501943 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread "Obama announces US deficit deal" as "Obama announced dead" < 1312182135 229488 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1312182138 233602 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell of a misread < 1312182210 198902 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I've had an idea for an esoteric programming language < 1312182224 280460 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :None so far are based on L-systems < 1312182248 383593 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to make a language called Luigi < 1312182832 511046 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312182853 519462 :pitufoide!~vandresv@c-66-229-123-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312182870 886845 :pitufoide!~vandresv@c-66-229-123-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312183124 227764 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312184851 496186 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1312188273 933194 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1312189216 413853 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1312189679 387046 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1312189971 194109 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, would /// qualify? < 1312190193 331386 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's quite the same thing, since it doesn't apply more than one replacement rule at a time. Admittedly it does replace all occurrences, unlike say Thue. (But even that is not done in an L-system-ish fashion.) < 1312190220 880198 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312190359 215372 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312190434 464350 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1312190479 860622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312190616 553575 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312193329 369113 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1312193636 975279 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312193645 591961 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: no < 1312194801 718788 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312194822 38877 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312196070 691896 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1312196726 8224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1312196827 137545 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys I have a great idea for PHPJAVA < 1312196853 676744 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the scoping operator is & since it's most like \ and . put together < 1312197653 784819 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312197965 394230 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1312198405 576841 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :good news: my program works < 1312198410 574003 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad news: it's slow as hell < 1312198416 461188 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does your program do? < 1312198431 953116 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's probably just half that it involves iterating over powersets < 1312198443 675222 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sour about that O(2^n) < 1312198447 265087 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1312198458 52182 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are familiar with the game of life, yes? < 1312198461 992254 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1312198464 727721 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatcha looking for? < 1312198503 76141 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k. Define an eden as a pattern such that there exists no pattern such that applying the generation function gives that pattern < 1312198532 576066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define an island as a pattern such that there exists no eden such that you can reach the island from that eden in a finite number of applications of the generation function < 1312198549 605826 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. an island has no eden predecessor < 1312198558 152176 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :find any? < 1312198568 702678 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many islands are there on a w by h torus? < 1312198588 295989 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, since we're on a torus, we can eliminate symmetries from the calculation < 1312198596 470427 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are a lot of symmetries < 1312198619 644209 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my poor inefficient program is trying to calculate them rather naively < 1312198643 295160 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :by iterating over each possible pattern and its symmetries < 1312198651 881111 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the most elegant approach, but is clearly utterly ridiculous < 1312198672 571672 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :as, for instance, the singleton pattern has w*h /translational/ symmetrical patterns alone < 1312198713 502743 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :really what I should be doing is starting from one pattern, add all its symmetries to a set < 1312198720 893681 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick the next pattern < 1312198724 94271 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :add it to the set of results < 1312198734 581246 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add it and its symmetries to the set of visited patterns < 1312198755 282762 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and repeat until there are no more unvisited patterns < 1312198761 20025 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312198771 267962 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd still be O(2^n) unfortunately < 1312198797 199616 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but I'd be able to reasonably calculate, say, 4x4 < 1312198826 959424 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 4x4 it'd be a speedup of something like 128 times? < 1312198837 56321 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more than that < 1312198855 539178 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more symmetries < 1312198870 475689 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the translationals * flip horizontal * flip vertical...flip diagonal too? < 1312198902 57006 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grah. In the channel list, Quassel uses for regular incoming chat the color that XChat used for pings < 1312198907 962487 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip diagonal, plus, in the case of a square, rotation < 1312198913 228015 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :by either 90 or 270 degrees < 1312198916 521013 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good point < 1312198924 70265 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLUS the translations of each flip and rotation < 1312198930 684937 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, hence * and not + < 1312198963 295437 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it becomes w * h * (6 if square, 4 otherwise) < 1312198972 453910 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312198998 323089 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do that redundancy 2^wh times < 1312199000 818543 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're in trouble < 1312199092 949172 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I need to deal with the fact that such large numbers are simply damn difficult to manage < 1312199113 541934 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this an open problem or some personal curiousity thing < 1312199131 84077 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter, possibly the former < 1312199153 623676 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be really nice if I could design something that didn't require creating a set of 2^wh elements < 1312199159 927455 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be n ice < 1312199190 406521 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main issue, really, is enumerating the patterns < 1312199263 691822 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we're talking about the script for islands in GoL < 1312199274 324869 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ooh, cool < 1312199301 21748 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could try only storing the canonical values < 1312199310 195853 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also crud < 1312199312 164360 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :edens is broken < 1312199325 367882 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :two things to fix@ < 1312199328 148812 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We still haven't proven anything other than that for at least some size finite GoL boards, there are stranded oscillators? < 1312199338 281117 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did we prove something recently? < 1312199363 18687 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: < 1312199365 870746 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :use night and day instead of GoL < 1312199370 330884 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you have another symmetry, flipping 0s and 1s < 1312199374 41938 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :2* speedup < 1312199405 852665 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Results in Night & Day may not necessarily apply to GoL. Does Night & Day have that "Easy predecessor" thing? < 1312199416 506128 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1312199423 420699 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to ask if night and day has interesting edens or not < 1312199515 440187 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm working on the script to calculate all islands of a given size < 1312199527 183313 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, all islands on a torus of a given size < 1312199541 657321 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the torus is for the w*h speedup < 1312199551 800532 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Huh? < 1312199563 313960 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can use translational symmetries on a torus < 1312199575 397214 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only have to care about 1/w*h as many unique patterns as before < 1312199627 333497 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would be uncertain as to how to implement such a thing. Maybe calculating all possibilities and comparing? < 1312199632 887894 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it meaningful to describe a single celled torus? :D < 1312199635 76900 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pictured a directed graph < 1312199642 171571 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: yes < 1312199647 683595 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would kind of defeat the purpose but.. ya know.. its funny < 1312199653 793181 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be its own neighbor < 1312199655 207780 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL OF THEM < 1312199662 911872 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU < 1312199663 989378 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk about a multiple personality disordered CA < 1312199666 516438 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he makes friends with himself < 1312199669 180715 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all 8 of himself < 1312199678 801985 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he gradually goes insane and kills himself < 1312199691 325358 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :next iteration, only an empty space was found on the crime scene < 1312199697 137237 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP little buddy < 1312199725 205907 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1312199738 706009 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if cellular automata was night and day this not happen :( < 1312199767 86616 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I'm a little unfamiliar with directed graphs < 1312199780 545261 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312199785 91199 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: as in, you'd list every distinct pattern, iterate them once, and link them to the distinct pattern they become < 1312199798 552745 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1312199799 646363 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way you can see which patterns (call them islands) are not on a graph with an eden in them < 1312199837 49289 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait, how does that help? < 1312199854 448274 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not < 1312199854 768613 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An oscillator with period... wait, n/m < 1312199858 150536 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use it to find edens though < 1312199871 781167 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :every pattern that has no pattern pointing to it is an eden < 1312199879 742508 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, iterate each eden until it loops. < 1312199883 259654 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all patterns left over are islands < 1312199889 161809 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooohhhhh < 1312199893 820792 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder it wasn't working < 1312199906 637037 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inefficiency may have been related to this bug < 1312199919 624137 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: straned cycles ~= islands < 1312199935 191916 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't even need to do that, if all possible patterns are represented, you have all iterations < 1312199984 203333 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iterating is just the same as finding what .. wait, < 1312199990 198264 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm too tired and hungry for this < 1312200010 670936 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312200060 287077 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, I'm downgrading it from "fucking slow and a horrible space leak" to "goddamn slow" < 1312200081 590929 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What language is it? < 1312200083 258071 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait derp derp < 1312200084 908962 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: haskell < 1312200089 25233 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot something important < 1312200104 660717 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179112092.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312200124 376706 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no I didn't < 1312200147 444194 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I only calculate the canonical form for each pattern < 1312200163 944120 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312200166 163710 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could change it to eat space instead of time < 1312200173 18206 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you only calculate canonical forms? < 1312200187 737040 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd pretty much destroy the universe either way, wouldn't it? < 1312200187 824716 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only imagine determining all forms, then comparing :( < 1312200193 71673 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I mean for each pattern, I calculate it's canonical form and get on with my life < 1312200196 877906 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yeah < 1312200212 637934 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: speaking of which, do you have anything to say about the "talking time" forum other than it's got LPs on it? < 1312200225 66618 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1312200253 522552 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I only go there for the LP subforum < 1312200263 242494 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I post there every now and then < 1312200264 911805 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's plays? < 1312200265 855811 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: basically the options are "calculate the canonical form of every pattern and store each one" or "given a pattern, calculate all symmetries and remove them" < 1312200271 394038 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yeah, I noticed < 1312200272 38431 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yes < 1312200277 408726 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read through the MMBN thread < 1312200289 130119 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their IRC channel is weird, more or less everyone there seems to know each other in real life < 1312200293 555071 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the problem is you're dealing with expoential growth either way < 1312200296 774998 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I stopped going there as a result < 1312200328 651793 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a certain kind of pattern that is never useful to consider? < 1312200333 219196 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the 4x4 case could shed light on it < 1312200333 807976 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and you actually start to hit real size constraints (as in, sets can store only 2^32 elements in Haskell. That's enough, right?) < 1312200347 942915 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Well some patterns always are islands in some circumstances < 1312200375 790635 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :notably, an alternating pattern in a 1-by-n torus is stable < 1312200396 958827 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite clearly an eden < 1312200407 707265 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really the 1-by-n case is degenerate < 1312200412 668015 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're dealing with a different CA < 1312200416 903378 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I think you could save space by expending a lot of time. Go to add a pattern. Recalculate all symmetries of all canonical forms, and compare, before possibly adding. < 1312200431 147132 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The current algorithm is this: < 1312200434 632750 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :start at n = 0 < 1312200443 996845 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :determine the pattern for n < 1312200448 831883 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :compute its canonical form < 1312200470 999926 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ sets can only store 2^32 elements < 1312200480 276283 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert into the set < 1312200493 234459 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're going to be stuck at 6x6 with a naive algorithm < 1312200496 371935 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for n + 1 < 1312200503 969663 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yeah < 1312200511 196658 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: if I choose space consumption < 1312200531 623963 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, IE8 is annoying me already < 1312200535 587621 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, see if there are any set libraries in Haskell that don't have that limitation? < 1312200545 803094 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I go time, I can do it in space proportional to the number of symmetry groups < 1312200559 38616 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I presume so, but I don't have the RAM for it anyway on this machine < 1312200562 165990 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders stupid space saving tricks < 1312200575 131274 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's too late at night for me to find such a library and run it on a higher-powered machine < 1312200603 731696 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fit several ns into one number, store that number < 1312200604 372545 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I haven't checked the context of this conversation at all < 1312200612 283518 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but given Sgeo's involvement, I'm guessing it's the Game of Life < 1312200616 206813 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's just a hack around the limitation < 1312200622 151147 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have N bits of data to store < 1312200622 386448 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not store a set of sets < 1312200623 521221 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yeah < 1312200627 620159 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you get 2^32 squared storage < 1312200641 989022 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: again, hacking around limitations does not remove the fundamental space problem < 1312200652 709996 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I'm just lolling at the thought of it < 1312200672 446050 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes Patashu's hack better < 1312200694 64105 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interesting question is how many different symmetry groups there are for grids on a x by y torus < 1312200703 602800 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a succinct generating series? < 1312200710 823739 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh! < 1312200713 886673 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I wish I wasn't too tired to be involved in an actually useful way < 1312200726 698176 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code found two islands for 4x3, allegedly < 1312200741 786475 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetry _groups_? < 1312200758 92493 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1312200759 768591 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any canonical pattern should have at least 4xy ... thingies, possibly more < 1312200775 880028 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of which may be identical, but whatever < 1312200777 658554 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Not all unique < 1312200810 790394 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalence classes is a better term < 1312200812 136280 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's use that < 1312200822 627505 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go eat < 1312200850 101583 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1312200872 146133 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the block in a corner is an island in a 4x3 torus < 1312200873 129671 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179112092.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312200884 458335 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait that's just any block < 1312200920 269052 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just got a ridiculous notification popup from the /browser/ < 1312200925 604538 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was the system tray's job < 1312200945 909239 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do "download completed" notifications often. < 1312201056 1444 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other is an s shape < 1312201072 361198 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also stable < 1312201085 194187 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting that no island I know of has period greater than 1 < 1312201147 642167 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this one was a "temporarily can't access Microsoft's anti-phishing servers, so we're not sure if Freenode is a phishing site or not" < 1312201272 238357 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Possibly they just don't want to do notifications-by-the-system portably. It's a bit of a mess on Linux, I believe; there's a D-BUS-driven freedesktop spec but... (Also on OS X quite many things support Growl, even though it's very third-party.) < 1312201292 296336 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, Microsoft are aware that that sort of notification shouldn't exist in the first place < 1312201308 948397 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they moved it from the system tray to IE just so that they could arbitrarily annoy me without having to break their own guidelines < 1312201481 104209 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a related-to-a-single-site-you-just-navigated-to notification, the system tray (isn't it called "notification area" nowadays?) sounds like the wrong place for it even in a common-sense way. < 1312201559 886366 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it never was called the system tray, officially < 1312201570 835683 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312201575 60240 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name came about because the program responsible for it is called SYSTRAY.EXE < 1312201582 131821 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it always was the notification area < 1312201775 473583 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funnily enough, the X replacement is called "system tray" officially (in the FreeDesktop spec), but Ubuntu's new (not so new any more) "Ayatana Indicators" thing replaces it with an "indicator area". < 1312201795 490500 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1312201835 693793 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312201915 983163 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, 4x2 has a period 2 island < 1312201934 127927 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually let's call that an archipelago) < 1312201937 875670 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1312202054 920681 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1312202058 828291 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like number theory < 1312202061 570057 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here have an idea why IE8 seems to change the color of tabs in a way which probably isn't random, but which I haven't figured out the pattern in yet? < 1312202083 676732 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since any island can be repeated in a torus that its own divides into evenly to produce another island < 1312202090 979616 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you have 'prime' islands < 1312202172 307577 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it so that by definition any predecessors of an island are also islands? If so, then if your block is one, the well-known block parents (pre-block, grin) should be too. < 1312202329 365714 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, unexpected flamewars to find on the Internet: an argument over whether BT (the telecomps company) is/are singular or plural < 1312202351 25775 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Tabs of the same color are part of the same "tab group" which you can (up to some degree) handle as a group. Don't know about the grouping, except in general terms opening one tab from another (with open-in-new-tab or ctrl/middle-click) should put the new tab into the same group as the original tab, while other methods of creating new tabs should possibly make new groups. < 1312202375 582850 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Islands are necessarily closed loops < 1312202384 922607 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what if you set up a pattern that doesn't have a 5x5 hole, is in normal GoL a >p1 oscillator, yet the torus is just large enough that it won't interfere with itself < 1312202397 216633 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, OK < 1312202397 491953 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In 4x3's case, because of the wrapping, there are no pre-blocks < 1312202407 985052 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that explain why a tab group arbitrarily changes color within itself? < 1312202416 629970 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: dunno < 1312202416 647981 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, one of these groups was previously green and is now blue < 1312202437 9534 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ooh, 4x2 has a period 2 island < 1312202439 798317 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't see that < 1312202453 440377 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: s tetronimo < 1312202483 322524 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I'm going to have to ask someone to explain what's going on in the US debt crisis to me < 1312202488 297027 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has 2 period 1 islands, modulo symmetry < 1312202493 81160 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was offline for a few days, and when I come back, suddenly none of it makes sense < 1312202513 611769 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: current status is an agreement has been reached between political leaders < 1312202524 348060 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone's hoping it will meet the approval of Congress as a whole < 1312202530 26886 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1312202532 699765 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What do you mean no pre-blocks? Isn't http://p.zem.fi/hcaf a pre-block in a 4x3 torus? < 1312202536 146662 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the agreement particularly sane? < 1312202577 957392 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what oscillators have non-changing bounding boxes? < 1312202595 667013 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, because the cell (0, 1) will come to life < 1312202609 641411 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: another excellent question < 1312202621 264131 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wholly unrelated, of course < 1312202636 975753 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo, I've seen oscillators with external framework and internal action < 1312202640 53279 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have non-changing boundary boxes < 1312202658 836446 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better yet: Non-changing bounding boxes, and no 5x5 holes. Then, I _think_ there should be a torus on which it's an island < 1312202659 989793 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :often you get an oscillator that spits a cell or two which dies promptly < 1312202670 281767 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Which cell is (0, 1)? < 1312202686 715865 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, (1, 0), (x, y) counting from the bottom left < 1312202711 412090 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait that whole two columns goes on < 1312202723 938274 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the thing starts oscillating < 1312202769 314186 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it's really that non-tall. What's the word. Short. < 1312202788 873496 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's possible to prove that all islands meet that spec, or a slightly enlarged version of it < 1312202822 102195 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I just pointed out has a changing bounding box < 1312202832 104634 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312202857 862036 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1312202864 7760 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changing how? < 1312202875 931555 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably open Golly < 1312202932 476325 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, can't do it < 1312202959 5710 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still think no-5x5 no-bounding-change is an easy way to find islands < 1312203110 750831 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it moves < 1312203128 231431 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shifts itself halfway around the torus in one generation in both dimensions < 1312203143 2146 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the bounding box doesn't change in size, just in location? < 1312203168 328326 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, thought I discarded that direction due to other considerations < 1312203171 291341 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps self < 1312203183 177291 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :two islands detected in 5x3 < 1312203295 126458 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are stable < 1312203734 763022 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, opinions on Java 7 miscompiling code? < 1312203748 688638 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that comes up a lot in real projects (it affects at least Lucene)? < 1312203752 808118 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sounds like a good idea to me." < 1312203756 729357 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1312203760 986160 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :miscompiling code? < 1312203763 149139 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Will teach those programmers to behave themselves." < 1312203768 678346 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently one of the optimisations that's on by default is broken < 1312203780 503814 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can cause SIGSEGV or silently give wrong results < 1312203790 522643 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1312203796 571895 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is* very new. < 1312203821 111587 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-XX:UseLoopPredicate < 1312203839 623648 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle discovered five days before release, and did the release anyway without even changing the default setting < 1312203846 692842 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312203879 303222 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems out of character for them < 1312203891 991064 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it probably affects their own software too < 1312203895 613193 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Well, you know. "You acknowledge that Licensed Software is not designed or intended for use in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility." < 1312203922 254712 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1312203928 485440 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I openend my old email archive for a reason < 1312203936 689567 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I haven't a clue what that reason is < 1312204047 920194 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :'The 7th release of Java today seems that introduced some nasty bugs caused by hotspot compiler optimizations miscompiling some loops. Code containing loops will propably be affected by this bug.' < 1312204052 105641 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code without any loops however is A-OK! < 1312204062 760621 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: recusive code! < 1312204094 854846 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, code I'm annoyed at having to write: (void*)(int)0 < 1312204103 542815 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I want the value of 0, stored in a pointer < 1312204106 397429 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a null pointer < 1312204119 961152 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and ofc, this is in x86-specific code anyway and NULL == 0 there, so it's all pointless anyway) < 1312204120 604178 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312204131 145989 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also use a non-constant expression for 0 < 1312204131 751871 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need 0 as a pointer < 1312204137 595805 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's been some of the most cast-heavy code I've ever written < 1312204139 415606 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int i = 0; (void*)i < 1312204160 200269 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: because the x86 does not care whether its registers are holding pointers or integers < 1312204166 894174 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any declaration for an x86 register is going to be wrong < 1312204176 91503 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1312204194 454561 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some syscalls (like ioctl and ptrace) take arguments that are generically 32-bit, and written as void* but sometimes you cast integers to void* and pass them there rather than pointers to the integers < 1312204261 312416 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: union x86register { void * p; int i; }; < 1312204262 801652 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312204272 812486 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312204289 442314 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's been a lot of casting for signedness and bitwidth too < 1312204301 713699 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it doesn't say that in sys/user.h < 1312204310 393064 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the include file which has a big notice saying that it exists only for GDB) < 1312204318 667405 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312204369 402405 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I've more or less figured out what it's for, now < 1312204384 769207 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Are you sure the cast helps? A null pointer is created when you have "An integer constant expression with the value 0", and an "integer constant expression" can involve "operands that are integer constants -- cast operators -- [that] convert arithmetic types to integer types". < 1312204394 284048 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1312204419 223069 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe even "(void *)(int)0.0" gives you a null pointer. < 1312204424 473671 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I deleted that bit of code anyway, though < 1312204434 183015 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about (void*)*"" < 1312204444 18745 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea < 1312204446 469571 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :subtract a pointer from itself < 1312204447 240281 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam, 0 < 1312204452 824753 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULL-NULL ? < 1312204457 408663 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe NULL-(int)NULL < 1312204464 762050 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: that's a ptrdiff_t, not a (void*) < 1312204477 800738 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NULL-(int)NULL quite possibly gives SIGSEGV < 1312204482 224768 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mere subtraction < 1312204486 687980 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1312204489 991015 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not even dereferencing it < 1312204493 290601 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1312204496 879968 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why... < 1312204500 784239 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer values must point to actual objects, or one past < 1312204502 259816 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all times < 1312204512 257770 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and must point to an object and not be one-past if you dereference them < 1312204513 253145 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what part of the architecture checks? < 1312204526 68099 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily imagine a VM for C checking that < 1312204537 47064 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what pointers are in it < 1312204549 631804 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are (supposedly) architectures where "address registers" are special, and loading an invalid value there (even without derefencing it) can blow up. < 1312204569 444224 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also incredibly useful for the optimizer < 1312204579 566173 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had an idea < 1312204599 718064 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it allows to eliminate all code that would lead to invalid pointers < 1312204654 778127 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An esolang that is to Iota what Smalltalk is to Haskell < 1312204659 702443 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. void foo(int i) { int a[5]; int *p = a; p += i; } the optimizer can assume that i is from 0 to 5 < 1312204669 419613 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :moreover, if lto is used < 1312204678 722171 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can assume that any caller of foo will have i in that range < 1312204684 292587 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :object oriented iota? < 1312204707 884184 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much < 1312204713 999053 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Jot. < 1312204732 299831 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find Smalltalk : Haskell :: X : ? pretty difficult to calculate for any X but Smalltalk < 1312204739 940034 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312204749 251698 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I can't visualise the operator that transforms Smalltalk into Haskell or vice versa < 1312204752 149937 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pretty different < 1312204781 713280 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is the archetypical functional language < 1312204792 966637 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk is the archetypical object orientated language < 1312204793 502602 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1312204798 733821 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :iota is functional < 1312204805 285841 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's some kind of object oriented lambda calculus i guess < 1312204813 428556 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding the earlier thing, *"" is not an integer constant expression, so that shouldn't give a null pointer (well, necessarily). (void *)'\0' is a valid null pointer, though. < 1312204814 978840 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The archetypical functional language is lisp < 1312204822 726633 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine < 1312204831 579456 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is quite unusual as functional languages go < 1312204835 681273 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This language will be to Jot what Smalltalk is to Lisp < 1312204838 418797 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That better? < 1312204840 466696 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Common Lisp isn't even particularly be functional < 1312204847 793520 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain subsets of Scheme are < 1312204850 640832 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312204871 265340 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :be functional? < 1312204872 330489 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, *"" is a constant, and an integer < 1312204893 737072 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm tired, and I forget where I am in the parse tree halfway through sentences sometimes < 1312204897 995593 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I closed a " with a ) a few days ago < 1312204905 308805 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get the point, though < 1312204920 801738 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be an entirely object orientated turing tarpit < 1312204935 89904 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Glass? < 1312204935 747529 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you make an object oriented turing tarpit? < 1312204940 705774 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass is the opposite of a tarpit I thought < 1312204945 183204 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1312204947 621605 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes, but it's not an integer constant expression. < 1312204951 408004 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just know it's an OO esolang < 1312204957 943706 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fair enough < 1312204959 312790 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass is the really verbose one iirc < 1312204971 804388 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Alternatively, (void *)(1-1) is okay too. < 1312204974 236806 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single letters are verbose? < 1312204979 218496 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: no, that's ORK < 1312204979 259371 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1312204981 416681 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1312204995 395578 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll start with an anonymous generic superclass object < 1312205009 203083 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or (void *)(0?0:0). < 1312205041 294957 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass looks cool < 1312205061 556427 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: gah, you've reminded me of all the "if 0 then skip else skip" I'm putting at the end of trivial ICA programs < 1312205069 639038 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. It speaks of allowed operands; maybe it allows operators too. < 1312205086 138930 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to work around a bug in GHDL, which when translated back into ICA terms means that programs will crash the backend compiler unless they contain at least one if statement < 1312205094 911212 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL ais < 1312205119 359503 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, string literals aren't not in the list of allowed operands, so *"" is very safe. < 1312205131 642506 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad it can be fixed with a simple if statement, at least < 1312205133 935974 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the value of *"" < 1312205136 385135 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my earlier workaround was much worse < 1312205137 846432 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: 0 < 1312205138 313223 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: 0. < 1312205147 898385 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why...oh, I get why < 1312205150 502263 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "" is a zero-length string, so its first character is the end-of-string marker < 1312205154 811133 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write it as ""[0] if it's clearer that way. < 1312205163 564279 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 0[""] if you're feeling especially perverse. < 1312205166 221660 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1312205169 5670 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write it like that even if it isn't clearer that way < 1312205188 900486 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about *&*"" < 1312205195 741419 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: when golfing C, it often saves a couple of characters to reverse a subscript because it can cut down on the parens you need < 1312205202 612238 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced &* works < 1312205206 910723 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&* is not kosher, no. < 1312205209 494238 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not convinced it doesn't either < 1312205214 273556 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't take an address of non-lvalue. < 1312205218 644501 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1312205220 235298 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but *x is an lvalue < 1312205225 86935 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1312205225 634573 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that why I wasn't sure < 1312205229 266238 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it actually does. < 1312205249 839717 :angstrom!~Unknown@unaffiliated/angstrom PRIVMSG #esoteric :**&"" should work, though < 1312205260 765304 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("blah"); < 1312205262 850740 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was either the *& or &* pair that you were explicitly allowed to completely remove. < 1312205269 255097 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the c interpreter again < 1312205271 408255 :angstrom!~Unknown@unaffiliated/angstrom PRIVMSG #esoteric :*& iirc < 1312205287 188500 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, *& wouldn't do anything < 1312205287 348076 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :think we're missing an egobot actually < 1312205304 170964 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my BF Joust record is safe < 1312205314 304416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it is &* that you can remove without evaluating. < 1312205340 451255 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the operand [of &] is the result of a unary * operator, neither that operator nor the & operator is evaluated and the result is as if both were omitted, except that the constraints on the operators still apply and the result is not an lvalue." < 1312205372 612601 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, so you can't do &**x = 6; < 1312205475 665874 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I'm pretty sure I've found at least two kernel bugs, but one is likely to be impossible to reproduce < 1312205507 357887 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ended up with a process that wasn't a zombie, but most of its /proc/n/* data gave errors when I tried to read it (even as root) < 1312205514 417371 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it couldn't be killed, not even as root, not even with -9 < 1312205520 890354 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was apparently being ptraced by init (the real init) < 1312205535 941334 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure when it happened, I just found it lying around in top < 1312205537 145207 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&'s constraints on operands are: "either a function designator, the result of a [] or unary * operator, or an lvalue that designates an object -- [no bitfields or 'register' objs]"; a string literal, though, isn't an lvalue, so you can't do &"" to begin with. < 1312205588 461084 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the *&*"" should be acceptable. < 1312205603 69493 :angstrom!~Unknown@unaffiliated/angstrom PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense, yeah < 1312205640 154475 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the proggit discussion on (a, b) > c, where a is an integer, b is a bitfield slice, and the > c gives different returns depending on the signedness of its left argument < 1312205658 843430 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently an automatic compiler fuzzer tool tried it on six different compilers, and got two different answers, each from three of the compilers < 1312205709 804118 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, b) > c < 1312205712 32436 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that valid C++ < 1312205715 744394 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't undertand , I guess < 1312205717 729534 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language? < 1312205740 332398 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1312205751 962709 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right /that/ < 1312205760 522333 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember now < 1312205760 908149 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the comma operator evalutes its left argument, then ignores it and returns the value of its right argument < 1312205767 6015 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah < 1312205770 319477 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this came up on clang < 1312205777 324498 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it came up on all the compilers they tested < 1312205785 707170 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they couldn't tell which behaviour was correct by majority vote < 1312205790 386442 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean development discussion < 1312205816 627639 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed to me relatively clear that the only reasonable reading of the standard had , preserve bit-fieldness < 1312205817 22800 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the quote unquote right answer < 1312205842 724643 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ also noticed this issue long ago and resolved it in that fashion < 1312205877 733433 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what happens if the left argument has IO < 1312205884 167353 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: then the IO gets done < 1312205887 112379 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is evaluated and discarded < 1312205891 278103 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's part of the reason you might want to use , < 1312205904 207634 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although more often, you do a side effect that changes local or global state than IO < 1312205920 820371 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never think about using , < 1312205926 301826 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. using i++,j++ as the third argument to for < 1312205935 925430 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh except for for loop updates < 1312206010 404530 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PART :#esoteric < 1312206015 710490 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312206154 429254 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my spec for Smallertalk is using to many regexes < 1312206172 395000 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :can never use too many regexes < 1312206206 679188 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does not sense the make :/ < 1312206230 121984 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hint: it's a BMW) < 1312206270 296734 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, string literals *are* lvalues, since they designate an object; they're just not modifiable lvalues. So you can do a &"foo". < 1312206304 365623 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't it possible they'll be inlined? < 1312206308 293611 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :&"foo" is the same address as "foo", though? just a different type and size? < 1312206309 136927 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromList [fromList [Point 4 4 0 0,Point 4 4 0 1,Point 4 4 0 2,Point 4 4 0 3,Point 4 4 1 0,Point 4 4 1 1],fromList [Point 4 4 0 0,Point 4 4 0 1,Point 4 4 0 2,Point 4 4 1 0,Point 4 4 1 1,Point 4 4 1 3,Point 4 4 2 1,Point 4 4 3 0],fromList [Point 4 4 0 0,Point 4 4 0 1,Point 4 4 0 2,Point 4 4 1 0,Point 4 4 1 3,Point 4 4 2 1,Point 4 4 3 0],fromList [Point 4 4 0 0,Point 4 4 0 1,Point 4 4 0 2,Point 4 4 1 0,Point 4 4 2 1,Point 4 4 3 0,Point 4 4 3 3], < 1312206324 514989 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ set of sets of points on a 4x4 torus that are in archipelagos < 1312206343 425654 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is exactly the set that are in islands < 1312206348 226737 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 4x4 has no stable islands, apparently < 1312206380 440100 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Right; "foo" is the char[4]-typed object, which decays in most context into a char*; &"foo" is the pointer-to-char[4] address and no longer a lvalue. They both point to the same location in memory. < 1312206428 294990 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, doesn't char[4] decay into char* in all contexts in which its value matters? < 1312206434 50221 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only places it doesn't are metadata checks < 1312206546 995150 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in all expressions except for when it's the operand of the & or sizeof operator; or when in the initializer of a character array. < 1312206602 537302 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is rather funny, though: < 1312206606 392941 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e '#include \n int main(void) { printf("%u %u %u\\n", (unsigned)sizeof "a", (unsigned)sizeof &"a", (unsigned) sizeof *&"a"); }' | gcc -xc -o ./tmp.tmp - 2>&1 ; ./tmp.tmp < 1312206607 731313 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 8 2 < 1312206673 621435 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1312206674 468394 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works < 1312206675 822542 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tmp.tmp is a weird temporary filename < 1312206678 900439 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally use /tmpt/ < 1312206681 277178 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* /tmp/t < 1312206713 576704 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use tmp or tmp.tmp for files in the cwd, /tmp/x otherwise < 1312206713 624126 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really recall what sort of file system it has visible there, so thought "." might be safest. < 1312206736 445614 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run pwd < 1312206737 522962 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/hackenv.17687 < 1312206743 273098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks quite autocleaned. < 1312206755 572729 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :try using reserved words < 1312206761 713132 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can deduce what file system it is < 1312206771 923239 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then bust out the mad file system exploits and get root !! < 1312206777 478111 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that filename has a space in? < 1312206781 368630 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, rather, dirname? < 1312206793 737675 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/ tmp/hackenv.17867" < 1312206798 495776 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it < 1312206801 108398 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a space there either. < 1312206814 126673 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this client must be mad < 1312206854 662744 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's inside that Plash thing, it fakes the filesystem-access library calls however it wants. < 1312206860 796962 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312206944 812127 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, did you know that BSD have standardised exit codes for commands? < 1312206956 523970 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the standardisation covers some relatively unlikely events, but not some relatively common ones? < 1312206972 530970 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run readlink /proc/self/fd/0 < 1312206973 670089 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pipe:[4783072] < 1312206998 17290 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wasn't expecting that, but I suppose it's inevitable < 1312207003 183196 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying out things that caught my program out < 1312207012 381445 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't found many < 1312207031 704095 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also wrote an execbomb, just for fun < 1312207064 223924 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a forkbomb except with exec rather than fork, so it just does an infinite loop with a lot of kernel overhead rather than spamming processes everywhere < 1312207069 795329 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that Plash does the faked filesystem library calls by actually using sendmsg/recvmsg to do RPC with the hosting process, and completely disables the "direct" syscall access somehow, can't remember quite how. (There's a non-root-user chroot jail at least, but I think it also did something else.) < 1312207071 502023 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, I thought it'd help me track down a bug, but it didn't) < 1312207087 964568 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: probably PTRACE_SYSCALL, that's what I'm using < 1312207101 99272 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disallowing arbitrary syscalls or faking them is quite easy like that < 1312207112 824378 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, turns out that _newselect does do something, I caught a program using it < 1312207116 603576 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, it's identical to select < 1312207125 176738 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was just wondering why it then bothers with a faked libc, but I guess it's easier to include arbitrary code in there that way. < 1312207128 777626 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (;;) execv("/proc/self/exe", argv); ? < 1312207173 281193 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not using a fake libc, so that I can handle arbitrary executables, no matter how insane < 1312207191 56239 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm surprised at some of the insanity I've seen running it on random programs I had lying around < 1312207216 455792 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them even calls personality(2) for reasons I don't understand, I had to change from disallowing it to simply preventing it being used to turn on ASLR < 1312207222 255974 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run readlink /proc/self/exe < 1312207223 308753 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/python2.5 < 1312207226 594877 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a bit funny. < 1312207278 661399 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my mistake was that I have a symlink that I'm pretending is actually a character device, and forgot to stop readlink working on it) < 1312207293 15642 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a regular file that I'm pretending is actually a character device < 1312207306 103110 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for /dev/fb0 < 1312207316 938208 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's personality for? < 1312207321 833498 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually got Wesnoth to run and produce graphical output < 1312207325 638148 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: mostly, it changes syscall numbers < 1312207344 236862 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for if you want to run an executable from a different OS that has syscalls similar to Linux's, but different numbers < 1312207352 983908 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can also use it to turn ASLR on or off < 1312207356 379164 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other things too < 1312207357 269185 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Couldn't you just have it be a /dev/null clone? Though I guess that's not much less to fake, just the type. < 1312207377 83119 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mmaping /dev/null as shared does not produce useful results < 1312207419 322564 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1312207438 141366 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're actually letting the process to mmap it and then reading the graphics from the file? < 1312207441 356221 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1312207448 65884 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nifty. < 1312207460 855906 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then repacking the data into a PNG < 1312207554 880057 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have been hilarious if I could just get it to operate on the data section of a bitmap directly < 1312207563 183359 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wouldn't allow for screen resolution changes < 1312207589 90276 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also disguise a pty as a vt, but that's not all that surprising < 1312207670 421275 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and /dev/input/mice is actually a FIFO < 1312207684 675349 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many types of file do I have left to disguise as character devices? < 1312207698 118697 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :directory could be a little hard, block device would probably be a bad idea < 1312207703 494268 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Door. < 1312207708 19921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's a Solaris thing.) < 1312207716 223619 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like doors and whiteouts, I don't know what they're for < 1312207719 61052 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whiteouts are BSD) < 1312207780 211741 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doors are some sort of IPC thing, you can register them, and then get invoked by other processes. < 1312207812 493670 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot sockets < 1312207826 553652 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(AF_UNIX sockets, that is, the ones that can be implemented inside a sandbox without going insane) < 1312207831 952481 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least PulseAudio is trying to use them < 1312207852 723702 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(am I insane for wanting to get a copy of PulseAudio running inside this sandbox?) < 1312207868 782654 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it depends on what you actually need the sandbox for. < 1312207891 874475 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-Bus runs on Unix domain sockets (IIRC) and it's quite widely used. < 1312207917 257251 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess it can run over TCP too. < 1312207923 336032 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, any dependency of anything, in theory < 1312207937 896918 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, most of the dependencies have been reasonably sane < 1312207943 936998 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although seeing the internals of how SDL works worries me < 1312207982 971263 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, it does everything in a loop which just calls nanosleep and gettimeofday alternately, and then when it likes the time of day calls select to see if any input has happened) < 1312208031 913154 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, it does, IIRC, 32768 ioctls in a row to grab the scancode/keyboard mapping, which really grinds ptrace to a halt) < 1312208063 267042 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've taken a few peeks at its code when puzzling something out, and it's not the most cleanestly architectured thing there is. < 1312208103 764574 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something about a loop that /just/ contains nanosleep and gettimeofday that makes me angry < 1312208113 452221 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why wouldn't you just sleep for the amount of time you want to sleep for? < 1312208133 261756 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nanosleep provides no guarantees on how long it actually ends up sleeping. < 1312208139 854640 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it provides a minimum < 1312208158 406324 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it can easily be interrupted in the middle. < 1312208170 429515 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though you can of course notice that.) < 1312208174 295300 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, but its third argument tells you how much time it has left < 1312208182 709010 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its return value says it's happened, too < 1312208190 35978 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it at least call nanosleep with different values, or just some fixed small offset? < 1312208203 678630 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, the only things that interrupt it are signal /handlers/ (not general signals) < 1312208207 828282 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :small fixed offset < 1312208215 551458 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 millisecond, IIRC < 1312208220 972732 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh-eh. < 1312208226 30459 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they don't trust their nanosleep. < 1312208227 59653 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I get confused counting zeros < 1312208255 627515 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because most things my code does are in nanoseconds internally, in one place even picoseconds < 1312208269 856271 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo < 1312208274 795344 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pulled an all-nghter < 1312208278 852600 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nighter < 1312208312 406857 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could understand checking gettimeofday and not relying the nanosleep timekeeping (there's delays involved if you just continue with the "leftover time" values too many times), but always sleeping the same amount of time is a bit silly. < 1312208328 757562 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for pixel clock timings, which I'm not sure if anyone cares about but people are asking about, possibly to gain other information at the same time) < 1312208344 463824 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I can understand a gettimeofday check to work out how long to sleep for < 1312208374 718763 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nowdays there's also clock_nanosleep, which can be told to sleep until a specified absolute time, and gets rid of error-accumulation issues that way) < 1312208411 22066 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wow, Python is older than PHP? < 1312208414 291638 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't realised that < 1312208473 245500 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both predate Java? < 1312208524 852773 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: don't start telling me that COBOL predates C now < 1312208533 986510 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't surprise me < 1312208550 343808 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue if it's true < 1312208555 863985 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179112092.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312208564 603027 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most popularish languages were created in the chronological order that I expected them to have been created in < 1312208567 220661 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says COBOL is 13 years the junior < 1312208570 2958 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those relationships surprised me < 1312208576 772787 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*senior < 1312208582 995009 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: phew at that fix < 1312208587 254782 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312208605 451907 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of the relative age of COBOL and Algol < 1312208618 20632 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing COBOL first, but the other way round wouldn't surprise me < 1312208683 821069 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312208955 889881 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1312209097 916879 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, Java 7 lets you catch multiple specific types of exception in one catch block < 1312209102 264827 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be really useful if it got loops right < 1312209132 250004 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1312209157 688628 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have something that's more than a bare explanation and a code example < 1312209173 340963 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try { ... } catch (FooException | BarException ex) { ... } < 1312209214 668087 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://download.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/Objects.html is freaking me out, it seems like a really bad idea < 1312209237 775849 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :creating helper functions to propagate nulls is pretty much exactly what a good program doesn't need < 1312209321 638821 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179112092.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312209335 693603 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1312209351 648720 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :to both < 1312209371 644954 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also requireNonNull is more like an assertion < 1312209374 573859 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is useful if there are a set of exceptions that have to be handled the same way < 1312209376 126117 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that in Java you don't assert < 1312209377 391241 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you throw < 1312209379 931505 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :requireNonNull I'm fine with < 1312209397 354886 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it'd be hilarious if it threw a NPE on failure (I haven't looked at it) < 1312209415 389964 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, it does as well < 1312209424 754005 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it does < 1312209428 259364 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else would it do? < 1312209429 292048 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :crash? < 1312209440 194057 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw some other sort of exception, I suppose < 1312209450 844135 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's literally to just boilerplate < 1312209605 472515 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312209613 667689 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin_ < 1312209662 831358 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312209668 944825 :copumpkin_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312209912 851066 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah < 1312209931 150819 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I feel this need to put everything I want to read ever onto my Nook instead of reading on the computer? < 1312209965 442303 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including IRC? < 1312210012 81436 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for IRC. Although hmm < 1312210089 57990 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats a Nook? < 1312210092 506481 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an ebook reader? < 1312210098 260421 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312210103 340005 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok heres the reason why. < 1312210119 92661 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember that it was being anti-boycotted by a set of people recently who were pleased with what their makers were doing < 1312210121 173109 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but forget why < 1312210125 204161 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers have resolutions like 1920x1080 or whatever... < 1312210133 644706 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, they were buying them even though they didn't need them) < 1312210158 426980 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :e-ink has huge resolutions bringing the system more in line with things like print < 1312210185 481554 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also,(good) ebook readers presumably don't have an annoying refresh rate which you can't really see conciously < 1312210217 96782 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :low-res bothers the eyes, refreshes bother the eyes, bright light bothers the eyes < 1312210221 251457 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/barnes_and_noble_response_to_microsoft_suit/ is this related? < 1312210262 924223 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, I don't think my eyes are that bothered by reading on the computer. I think what's bothering them is switching back and forth, which I'm doing a lot of now. Either that, or lack of sleep. < 1312210269 608736 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably < 1312210282 268820 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're standing up to Microsoft, people will like them because of that < 1312210295 592128 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt just make up these beliefs... they stress your eyes < 1312210301 110979 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether you conciously care about it or not < 1312210422 279633 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :software patents strike again < 1312210453 339456 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's got to be at least three times, now < 1312210456 542330 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they out yet? < 1312210522 223822 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote software patents strike again < 1312210523 466850 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :556) software patents strike again < 1312210524 887895 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1312210526 36714 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1312210526 840116 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1312210542 390459 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong line? < 1312210546 255581 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote < itidus20> software patents strike again < ais523_> that's got to be at least three times, now < ais523_> are they out yet? < 1312210547 375955 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :557) < itidus20> software patents strike again < ais523_> that's got to be at least three times, now < ais523_> are they out yet? < 1312210589 607957 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :A king just kills his enemies regardless of the laws. It is somewhat naive of the open source community to think that the laws will protect them. However, it makes them good men(and women) and true. < 1312210593 211398 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, I really enjoy baseball for a non-American, although it's hard to find on TV for that reason; I don't particularly care about supporting any particular team, though) < 1312210615 441097 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I think in the UK, it's theoretically impossible for the Queen to commit murder < 1312210622 713349 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they are protected by the laws so long as those same laws benefit the giant commercial businesses < 1312210626 183650 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if she tried, no doubt the law would be changed, or at least she'd be forced out of office < 1312210661 465908 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Queen is not subject to the law of the United Kingdom < 1312210669 610065 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because she /is/ the United Kingdom < 1312210673 294879 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes she is < 1312210696 860225 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC she can't commit crimes, though, there's some sort of royal exception < 1312210729 103500 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... how to nintendo-ize this idea of the enemy bound by its own laws and turn it into a game. < 1312210734 736523 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know she can't go around killing people either < 1312210743 495555 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much of my Nook usage is just me playing with my new toy < 1312210762 903360 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i ain't gonna say another god damn thing lest i commit some kind of treason < 1312210766 288840 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :being in australia and all < 1312210778 751066 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312210827 695246 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Queen is theoretically allowed to prevent the Parliament from passing a bill < 1312210841 760340 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the last time this power was utilized was 1704 < 1312210844 422438 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: she still has to sign them, but she's allowed to sign them by default nowadays < 1312210863 371471 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a law that says that if she doesn't express an opinion, some royal secretary can go sign them on her behalf < 1312210870 174829 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so she'd have to go to the effort of telling them not to < 1312210906 137272 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok... So... the category of game I propose is one in which only one team can create laws. But they also have to be bound by them. < 1312210935 250693 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... it's kinda like Nomic? < 1312210939 752349 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like.. suppose your enemy was on the ground and you were in the air.. you could create a law "anyone who is on the ground dies" < 1312210947 228666 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then.. you would have to avoid the ground < 1312210958 641613 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be really easy to create loopholes < 1312210966 760860 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the set of laws you could create were really restricted < 1312210973 689959 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. < 1312210982 28094 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :also.. < 1312210992 69641 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game would have to be continuous... < 1312211000 527666 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :er hmm... < 1312211004 930789 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno how.. < 1312211010 171916 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of that hilarious state where the governor was allowed to veto individual words < 1312211030 360991 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the ideas i discuss have been bouncing around in my head for ages < 1312211035 902332 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one crafty governor rewrote a bill by vetoing all be the words he wanted < 1312211041 172728 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is no exception. i just never said it this way < 1312211053 8647 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: reminds me of italicisation scams in BlogNomic < 1312211055 34610 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: 7 also adds that one typing-saver (that IDEs I guess generally autocomplete), you can write Map>> map = new HashMap<>(); without having to repeat the parameters. < 1312211063 872767 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I like that one too < 1312211078 420309 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although generally speaking it's not too bad even in 6 with the sort of generic uses I mostly write < 1312211108 123582 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I was a child I have wanted to be a game author. So I like to think my ideas are nice. >:-) < 1312211143 691683 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Anyone up for Nomic? < 1312211150 793893 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: loopholes would be ok so long as the game doesn't reach a stalemate. < 1312211177 842620 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: And strings in switch() cases done using .hashCode() + comparisons internally. < 1312211178 614994 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'm a player of Agora, and so are several other members of this channel < 1312211186 645815 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a sensible way to do it, isn't it? < 1312211186 720806 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually.. in the scenario example i gave.. < 1312211190 572229 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing laws wouldn't be able to refer to teams directly? < 1312211198 747405 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1312211211 275953 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: yeah thats the catch...! it's meant to reflect the real world in that sense < 1312211228 220225 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically impossible to word a restriction like that and have it work < 1312211238 453817 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :referring to teams indirectly is very easy < 1312211251 117705 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes, and it'd be really quite verbose when done explicitly. < 1312211253 990038 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankenstein_veto < 1312211273 868584 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by inderect? < 1312211299 848551 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because stupid quine stuff still seems pretty direct for the purpose of game rules. < 1312211318 423411 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way.. in my head this is an arcade game side scroller < 1312211325 889519 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is where i differ with this room :D < 1312211344 411449 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, i appreciate text games too.. and natural language games < 1312211346 810543 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: heh, that's an interesting juxtaposition < 1312211348 853942 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever < 1312211357 20723 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be unsual as nomics go < 1312211382 242363 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: things like giving everyone on the other team a token, then killing everyone with a token < 1312211386 157712 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Since I was a child I have wanted to be a game author. So I like to think my ideas are nice. >:-)" wahahaha < 1312211408 118225 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hmm.... oh gosh i see.. < 1312211419 28567 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah.... < 1312211436 772769 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just giving /everyone/ a token, then dropping your own token before the enemies can react < 1312211439 115759 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the juxtaposition helps in that regard... since an arcade game is a finite system < 1312211440 324619 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then killing everyone with a token < 1312211448 339990 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think a finite system would work best < 1312211456 940265 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue would be to prevent the game feeling restrictive < 1312211464 584862 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1312211473 1056 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe it wouldn't be finite < 1312211488 139685 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could spawn things (gets nervous) < 1312211513 172102 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean.. if you can declare that the ground kills people... theres really no limits on what you can declare < 1312211522 156679 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can certainly declare someone has a token < 1312211546 592722 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ermm.. yeah.. i will stop talking for a moment and chill < 1312211573 330337 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :When mexicans enter america, and get on welfare... this is what i believe is happening < 1312211579 383773 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this problem is probably unsolvable < 1312211581 392431 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you do solve it, the resulting game will be great < 1312211584 44883 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my explanation, represented as a game < 1312211608 849030 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who does usa have to blame for it < 1312211610 662407 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya know < 1312211620 121820 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wrote their own friggen laws < 1312211690 941236 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie "anyone on the ground heals their health" < 1312211834 737937 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i tried writing up a game based on pennymatching... it just wouldn't click right.. < 1312211842 218787 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would the laws be written as the side scroller is being played, or between rounds? < 1312211845 28320 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is that games don't need to be resolved < 1312211857 523582 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: while being played.. well it could be any kind of game < 1312211910 625725 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :competitive Pokémon reminds me of pennymatching, but there's too much randomness in it to fit your criteria < 1312211938 708943 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pennymatching is probably ok... i just haven't cracked how to make it work as a game < 1312211988 100333 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my head is full of fallacies and misconceptions, and overanalysis... < 1312211993 355612 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the other side of my brain < 1312211996 377961 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can it do :-s < 1312212007 681839 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I already thought of how it would work as a game, I just dind't know it was already called penny matching. < 1312212008 768359 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to try them both in more balance < 1312212076 147784 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing up a lot of my ideas in an open office document tonight < 1312212124 267352 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I guess it wouldn't be based on it exactly. < 1312212249 936753 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh pennymatching? i gave up on this idea but i'll spell it out.. A guy with a big slow sword vs a guy with a small fast sword. They choose to attack high or low. If they attack at the same height the big sword smashes the small sword. If they attack different heights the small sword makes contact first decisively. < 1312212308 612248 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :An amusing narrative to accompany an otherwise direct rendition of pennymatching. < 1312212339 626908 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of having a strategy game like stratego, where different units have different values. < 1312212354 751220 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers getting a Stratego set as a gif < 1312212356 618673 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gift < 1312212360 330023 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never played < 1312212367 243059 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you probably need more than two options to make it work as a game < 1312212372 851713 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The penny matching would be used to decide who wins when units of the same type fight. < 1312212375 981147 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any even number would do < 1312212401 901647 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: i spent hours playing with the idea. im letting it go for now < 1312212414 482999 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1312212418 289830 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehe < 1312212432 924740 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I just realised that if you become a game dev, you're probably going to have to learn C++ < 1312212455 1993 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless he makes Java or Flash games < 1312212460 787444 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or HTML5 + Javascript < 1312212482 56835 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i worked out the 16 possible rulesets for pennymatching, and wrote up a scenario for each one... < 1312212494 422721 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there were lots of problems.. and the whole idea was just as bad as the one i posted < 1312212513 887335 :ais523_!93bc6b72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.107.114 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1312212525 186853 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it'd be much of a game by itself. < 1312212550 571923 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i started to abstract out the flags < 1312212568 317912 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a nice thing to use wherever you want to prevent ties in a non-deterministic game. < 1312212577 138145 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a flag of whether the player has a big or a small sword... and whether the sword is sheathed.. and whether he is thrusting or swinging it < 1312212581 521680 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or pseudo-non-deterministic, anyway. < 1312212597 463422 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really did spend hours on it < 1312212608 1247 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i had to stop somewhere < 1312212644 133518 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized then and there that Nash Games doesn't equate to Fun Games < 1312212669 567550 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't play a Nash Game for fun... you play it as part of life < 1312212713 358989 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can be incorporated etc < 1312212733 652210 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But theres a reason that noone has released a book of Nash Games Children's Edition < 1312212801 467969 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok I went a bit far there.. They can be fun of course, or pennymatching wouldn't exist < 1312212828 919439 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in general it's not a motherlode of fun. < 1312212885 143199 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually activate my creative side when thinking it up. That aspect of my brain needs to come to the fore a bit more. < 1312214585 814935 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-23-167.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312214871 573751 :nisstyre_!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1312214901 33358 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312214932 450643 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312214982 728677 :nisstyre_!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Client Quit < 1312215020 409559 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1312215317 968486 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312215371 654796 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312215780 758173 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312215857 931233 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's tipping it down < 1312215931 613323 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312215968 455439 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope Elliott doesn't get caught outside < 1312216091 865591 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so im replacing my personal wiki with an openoffice document with a contents page probably > 1312216173 672792 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216223 875189 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216268 938353 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216308 984196 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216354 60574 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216394 107341 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216429 165488 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216474 205213 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216519 274543 JOIN :#esoteric > 1312216564 332759 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312216564 642269 :glogbot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312216567 630464 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312216567 786268 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312216600 102008 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is already here < 1312216616 300644 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...dammit, that joke is a lie < 1312216644 871420 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joke, is in your pants. < 1312216653 429367 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1312216661 782718 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I screwed up that line < 1312216681 829932 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312216708 251873 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Guest63017 < 1312216784 954964 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312216812 412382 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm feeling too tired to read my own typing. Maybe I am actually tired. < 1312216995 899453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312218448 70746 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding that Nomic like game I discussed earlier, there are parallels with the force. Since it is obvious noone can use the force to fly. < 1312218481 515146 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have to take objects like pillars and throw them as projectiles. < 1312218497 634534 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But by one of Newton's laws, I think it's the third one < 1312218512 915165 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can throw a clump of air with equal mass to themselves downwards < 1312218514 74420 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't studied it in depth though. I was just guessing there. < 1312218516 12134 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ascend < 1312218560 783838 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so like you mean, when luke was raising the spaceship out of the swamp, he could have been sitting on it < 1312218568 854400 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1312218571 802373 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ish < 1312218575 276081 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no < 1312218576 1142 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats an interesting idea < 1312218579 901510 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that has a similar effect < 1312218595 48318 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could do that force headstand < 1312218604 939516 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait i forgot < 1312218627 671367 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he DID levitate ..............oh man i forgot i forgot.. he levitated C3p0 on the chair < 1312218639 229689 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a robot < 1312218643 483556 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence < 1312218650 716613 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What wasn't himself, though. < 1312218659 495708 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean.. a robot is inorganic < 1312218676 91221 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Levitating other people would be different, I think. < 1312218679 436377 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the prequels, everyone was doing stupid force backflips everywhere < 1312218681 255175 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he was able to raise c3po in the air on the chair < 1312218686 880331 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it would mean two people could fly together. < 1312218705 715465 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the whole fucking series rest on the idea that if you fall down a hole you can't fly out? < 1312218710 943695 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312218731 557777 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it.. luke had to cling for dear life at cloud city < 1312218756 524207 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he had put on weight? < 1312218776 921519 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tihnk part of it is that you need deep concentration to do lift stuff. < 1312218797 244260 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well whether the reasons are secret or not.. it is clear that you cannot fly < 1312218800 220591 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess he'd have enough time if he was jsut hanging there. < 1312218837 483906 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :even yoda can't fly < 1312218846 367147 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I haven't seen anyone just sailing through the air. < 1312218858 109583 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been thinking about this for quite some time :P < 1312218924 467659 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he can make robots fly if they are sitting on a chair... he demonstrated that < 1312218950 690534 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably he could have made him float too... but he was trying to trick them into thinking c3po was a god < 1312218965 395984 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked, too < 1312219011 650569 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its surely no coincedence.. this emphasis on levitating the spacecraft in the swamp... and then not being able to fly < 1312219064 105918 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember the Yoda says something about not being too reliant on force powers. < 1312219085 475724 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I havent seen number 3 yet < 1312219091 563469 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i know a lot about it < 1312219107 323481 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or someone who teahces force stuff said it. < 1312219147 146487 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think making a momentary jerk at something might be a lot easier than a sustained hovering. < 1312219155 470860 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why they can jump usper high. < 1312219205 85841 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :anakin was super badass and could choke you.. < 1312219213 446128 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple: the force makes no sense! < 1312219221 321893 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that you need a lot of power to choke someone with the force < 1312219221 974917 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they have a feild around themselves that needs to be anchored to the ground or whatever. < 1312219241 749829 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :noone else ever used the force as a melee weapon < 1312219249 638752 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :except anakin < 1312219270 923315 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was a dick < 1312219277 995830 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can punch you with the force < 1312219281 367552 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the main three mvoies only have the two evil force users. < 1312219281 801950 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is the only one i think < 1312219294 502822 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can rain fists down on your ass < 1312219304 144340 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WITH HIS MIND < 1312219305 541714 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that seems to depend how weak you are < 1312219363 862583 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yoda did move the X-Wing, but it wasn't really that far of a distance. < 1312219374 673591 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the difficulty of lift increases with fligth time. < 1312219377 711243 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: they can move inorganic objects < 1312219392 210615 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is the inorganicness < 1312219401 880499 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know which scene you mean though re: xwing < 1312219406 941221 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how they can't lift organics. < 1312219409 609899 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Darth Vader squishing people's necks? < 1312219413 637812 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the whole topic man < 1312219415 441475 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one where it's lifted form the swamp. < 1312219438 897986 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well.. he is applying pressure like a choke < 1312219465 640188 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :he can't actually control the guys neck.. only choke it < 1312219485 276504 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe its partial control cos anakin is so strong with the force < 1312219488 704804 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it isn't purly an issue of being able ot grab. < 1312219502 748750 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah true < 1312219513 625410 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be that organic stuff damages too easily < 1312219517 888494 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1312219522 558988 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well i derived the fact he could punch from the fact he could choke < 1312219528 931856 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIth an X-Wing, you jsut pull on the metal frame and there you go. < 1312219531 974284 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though he never used such punches < 1312219553 768534 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a human you need ot make sure not to dislucate the squishy innards. < 1312219564 760581 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: also the fact that everyone has midochlorions in them... they might not act directly on each other < 1312219592 578664 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312219599 29376 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1312219636 38440 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next time I can get to them, I'll have to check my Star Wars D20 books on the subject of what the force cana nd can't move around. < 1312219651 918142 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1312219663 330732 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dark side is more powerful, obviously < 1312219663 540502 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when it comes to accomplishing violence < 1312219704 279788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's more flexible < 1312219712 618018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason the light side is so much harder to use is that it's a tarpit < 1312219721 137558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the dark side actually has useful primitives < 1312219732 755055 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you pay a price for the power of the dark side < 1312219739 386825 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever considered that all the force is just jedi mind tricks...persistent illusions of sights and sensations... < 1312219743 504050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of referential transparency? < 1312219748 586082 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you? < 1312219760 725950 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean.. anakin was ok until he got lava-ized < 1312219796 813336 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312220324 93556 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312223417 596614 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312223796 149448 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1312223817 245795 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312224172 851163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea for a sequence S: S[1] = 1, S[n+1] = value someone who doesn't know about S would guess for S[n+1] given S[1]..S[n] < 1312224177 546560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1312224181 3157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea for a sequence S: S[1] = 1, S[n+1] = value someone who doesn't know about S would guess for S[n+1] given S[1]..S[n], plus 1 < 1312224244 488371 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use e.g. http://koti.kapsi.fi/jpa/stuff/other/epsilon/zizzo.cgi to generate that programmatically < 1312224270 121733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it's already been thought of? < 1312224278 342161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it a sequence guesser? < 1312224282 296637 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter < 1312224292 575203 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from http://www.ohjelmointiputka.net/kilpa.php?tunnus=alyot ) < 1312224325 657621 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew a haskell guy who wrote some kind of arithmetic sequence guesser < 1312224347 313775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, after a while they'd probably guess the definition of S < 1312224352 490471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has to be higher by 1 even allowing for that < 1312224400 642690 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its a sequence based on human nature? < 1312224413 615183 :Guest63017!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1312224424 236702 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you have the idea that lots of people would add numbers to it blind? < 1312224433 530794 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i reading this all wrong? < 1312224457 613048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well, I think they'd stop being blind after a while < 1312224464 369634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is also accounted for by the sequence < 1312224469 354068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes, human nature is involved < 1312224492 544725 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know what you should do with this idea < 1312224506 196500 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that random anonymous text chat website < 1312224515 790699 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget its name < 1312224520 566575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's unlikely to be a good use for it < 1312224528 30829 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just show the sequence to random people and wait for a number < 1312224534 716719 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then build it up in that way < 1312224618 814014 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i presented a random human being with a "1" < 1312224626 481883 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mulling it over < 1312224755 412337 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You: 1 Stranger: hi Stranger: asl? You: ok which number comes next, given: 1" -- didn't go so well < 1312224789 815414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think it would < 1312224800 137268 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :however... < 1312224878 885942 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,3,6,11 is the first terms i get by introspection < 1312224940 713143 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no obvious "would guess" for the next term < 1312224967 765405 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You: 1 Stranger: 2 You: 1,2 You: 1,2,? Stranger: 3,4 ?? You: 1,2,3,4,? Stranger: 1,2,3,4,5,6,??? You: 1,2,3,4,5,6,? " and not ended yet < 1312224977 751188 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: no! < 1312224983 888754 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i doing it wrong? < 1312224991 153920 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312224999 822091 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. after he answers 2, you should do 1, 3 < 1312225036 226927 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd go with 18 to your "1,3,6,11," -- it looks like the partial sums of primes. < 1312225048 418022 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1312225087 121273 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats fizzie for suggesting 1 is a prime -----### < 1312225148 191650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, I was mostly going for "2, 3, 5, ... e.g. primes as the differences between the numbers", but it wasn't as concisely stateable. < 1312225161 933219 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it leaves the starting point of 1 a bit arbitrary. < 1312225176 30966 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1312225231 768572 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm OEIS sorted on relevance doesn't look good for this < 1312225234 302051 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told them the line in question "without a username" to relieve some of the curiosity which i probably only imagined they had < 1312225250 231197 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it gives 1, 5, 20, 70, 240, 810, as the first result for "1") < 1312225251 400824 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it could be googled but meh < 1312225287 948461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek sorting by references gives the _prime numbers_ < 1312225345 909423 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok at least 1,3,6 gives the triangle numbers < 1312225393 550421 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh OEIS went with 19 for 1,3,6,11 :P < 1312225418 292673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fibonacci(n+3) - 2) < 1312225457 307052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly the best next element is actually 20 < 1312225564 392334 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives 2^n + n, next element becomes 38 < 1312225592 126843 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEIS gave up on 1,3,6,11,20,38 < 1312225603 654392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, it needs to contain /this/ sequence < 1312225609 264948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and increment numbers in it on every pageview < 1312225617 448510 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1312225680 803091 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if i accept OEIS's 1, 5, suggestion for a starting 1... < 1312225681 979841 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312225714 433068 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek. pascal's triangle read by rows. < 1312225717 179698 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b670e.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312225744 220425 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, the 1,6,15 ... row < 1312225798 717784 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time OEIS gave up on 1,6,16,32,385 < 1312225889 144683 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i suspect humans might not do much better than OEIS. < 1312226066 405329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1312226240 27963 :hagb4rd!~hagb4rd@koln-4d0b670e.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312226255 778639 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans can understand lots of stuff like 1,2,3,15,16,17, OEIS can't < 1312226269 345796 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until someone adds it < 1312226296 145035 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can add just any kind of triviality to OEIS, or can you? < 1312226303 156846 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can < 1312226323 688412 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be a sequence of at least _some_ interest, i think < 1312226565 180410 :cheater_!~ubuntu@e179112092.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312226694 398149 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n-(n mod 3))*11+ n < 1312226925 696837 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let p d x = product [x, x-1 .. x-d+1] `div` product [1 .. d]; q x = sum [p d x | d <- [1..x]] in map q [0..] < 1312226926 764302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,3,7,15,31,63,127,255,511,1023,2047,4095,8191,16383,32767,65535,131071,... < 1312226958 262964 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (pred . (2^)) [0..] < 1312226959 563251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,3,7,15,31,63,127,255,511,1023,2047,4095,8191,16383,32767,65535,131071,... < 1312227033 146128 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, so attempting the procedure with the simplified guess of "use simplest polynomial fit" just gives 2^n-1 < 1312227066 511141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312227072 368514 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess that's a consequence of pascal's triangle, really < 1312227077 822892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind-of neat, actually < 1312227121 485088 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or of the binomial expansion of (1+1)^n < 1312227135 967399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, putting it like that makes it obvious < 1312227138 178041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still neat < 1312227222 395087 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better idea: let the next value in the sequence be the smallest value that no one on earth has guessed could be the next value :P < 1312227257 238206 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,negative infinity? < 1312227307 450404 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*greater than the previous term < 1312227309 716274 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1312227323 577875 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that i would guess negative infinity just to mess with you) < 1312227334 981363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative infinity plus 1! < 1312227361 846472 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229131209.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312227370 782213 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is convenientally equal to negative infinity < 1312227376 295238 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Esolang talk:Site support appears to be spam < 1312227431 384135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check the recent changes in a bit < 1312227439 592674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll be dealt with < 1312227457 629672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to give elliott a chance to userfy it first :) < 1312227461 560947 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the danger here is that elliott might squat it be... right < 1312227479 652734 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, WRONG < 1312227572 41877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's happened before < 1312227577 478042 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: "In Luigi, the left hand side of a production rule is not allowed to be the subset of any other. This makes Luigi deterministic." < 1312227582 692387 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312227584 685825 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong < 1312227600 41407 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still in user section, it can be changed < 1312227629 174253 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i would think you'd have trouble whenever they can overlap, anyhow. < 1312227647 563868 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I thought < 1312227682 558072 :cheater__!~ubuntu@e179115183.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312227737 16728 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sighs, wondering if I would understand my own ideas better if I had learned Haskell yet. < 1312227753 389673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's the haskell going? < 1312227761 352863 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't got back to it yet < 1312227818 961721 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am intrinsically about game creation.. and Haskell would only serve that end for me in some level < 1312227849 57404 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are games in haskell, at least. < 1312227852 101148 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229131209.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312227887 148392 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am basically someone who would look down the nose at Lua because it would deny me the pleasure of making my own embedded scripting language. < 1312227889 871885 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064186.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312227925 224322 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone have any idea if Luigi is Turing Complete? < 1312227926 449107 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it wouldn't add any value of its own. < 1312227930 548442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua is possibly the only language with a large amount of reverse library support < 1312227948 417792 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reverse library? < 1312227953 863248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that, it doesn't have an amazing number of libraries, but it's embedded in an amazing number of different contexts that will be able to supply their own relevant routines < 1312227964 783386 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i was thinking about that. i think you can do a CA in it... < 1312228007 679312 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say you follow the convention of using disjoint alphabets for odd and even positions < 1312228045 429357 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can easily make something resembling a 1d margolus rule, i think < 1312228055 787800 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while still being deterministic < 1312228067 150017 :cheater__!~ubuntu@e179115183.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312228114 460839 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or put a different way, each CA cell is represented by _two_ luigi letters, one from each subalphabet. < 1312228165 376580 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0010 would be represented something like aAaAbBaA < 1312228177 378280 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some marker at the end < 1312228184 96620 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would rather use (looks up it's name) ORK than Lua as a scripting language for a game. < 1312228227 535211 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait this doesn't work that way < 1312228242 298184 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to keep the margolus idea < 1312228277 644486 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, each cell would interact with a different neigbor on odd and even generations < 1312228346 39040 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :say a rewriting rule was Aa -> aB, it would only apply when the left cell was in the "upper case" state, and would turn it into lower case, and opposite for the right cell < 1312228409 254226 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end markers would have rules to switch the case of an otherwise inert cell. as well as possibly growing the word. < 1312228412 989033 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Isn't the traditional way to do deterministic stuff on a system like this just to keep a unique marker somewhere, and then apply only production rules that contain the marker and some neighbors, so you're guaranteed to only ever apply the rule in a single place? Sounds like a scheme like that, with a marker you keep moving from front to back (and encode some state in what the marker is) should work for a BCT implementation. (With a few more unique symbo < 1312228413 194259 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls at the beginning and end of the string.) < 1312228441 674438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's basically encoding a Turing machine in rewrite rules < 1312228443 120857 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh hm right that's the TM way. i was sort of fixated on doing something parallel. < 1312228446 126482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it is pretty standard < 1312228463 905077 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, you can be honest, I won't feel hurt: just say "the boring way". < 1312228490 214898 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea has the "advantage" that every cell can get touched by some rule each generation < 1312228519 887990 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i honestly forgot about it :P < 1312228551 886831 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312228572 3351 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ok fizzie's method pretty obviously works to encode a TM rather directly. < 1312228625 738825 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That 1D CA in "parallel" sounds intuitively speaking doable too. < 1312228662 346670 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i would think so < 1312228698 797721 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encoding a TM directly would be the way that would be most obvious to someone who knows what turing-completeless is but hasn't much experience trying to prove it < 1312228706 658949 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or seen anyone ever try to prove it < 1312228713 71625 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still a possible < 1312228714 58287 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :way < 1312228714 637581 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1312228741 60971 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes it _is_ the simplest way < 1312228956 667262 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1312229304 690168 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A0N1->N1B1; A0N0->N1B1; N0A1->C0A1; N1A1->C1N1; N0B0->A0N1; N1B0->A1N1; B1N0->N1B0; B1N1->N1B1; N0C0->B0C1; N1C0->B1N1; C1N0->N1H0; C1N1->N1H1 < 1312229318 739778 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will simulate the example Turing Machine on the Wikipedia page < 1312229329 101007 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When converted to Luigi notation < 1312229337 849142 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the most obvious way to make things deterministic would be to just check shorter rules first. < 1312229361 120213 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but restrictions are fun < 1312229362 856253 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312229387 600041 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: actually that doesn't work with the overlapping ones < 1312229408 434595 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that dones't, by itself, remove the ambiguity of when sch alterations should be applied. < 1312229421 114780 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't they supposed to be in paralel too < 1312229421 319606 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things can overlap without being subsets, though. < 1312229435 177597 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, checking them sequentially is hilariously against the point < 1312229451 379268 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reads about turing machines) in the deterministic vs non-deterministic argument I have raised hte point in the past that a non-deterministic universe could emulate a deterministic one.. < 1312229460 562610 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;01ABCH;N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0A0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0N0;A0N1;N1B1;A0N0;N1B1;N0A1;C0A1;N1A1;C1N1;N0B0;A0N1;N1B0;A1N1;B1N0;N1B0;B1N1;N1B1;N0C0;B0C1;N1C0;B1N1;C1N0;N1H0;C1N1;N1H1 < 1312229461 863853 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this may be a vice versa thing, i forget < 1312229473 833439 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1312229487 401610 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just found a major restriction in the Turing Machine emulation < 1312229487 678524 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither wba or bac are subsets of the other, but they have subsets that match, so wabc would be a problem. < 1312229492 307377 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :finite initialisation < 1312229496 962710 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well it depends on whether your non-deterministic universe can make reliable components, i assume < 1312229515 483810 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can freely pretend to have no free will :> < 1312229526 96185 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that is.. i cannot say that for sure!! < 1312229546 463814 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I don't think direct emulation of a Turing Machine works < 1312229571 307727 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot prove my determinism is not a choice < 1312229573 332988 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312229600 292834 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's philosophy, not computer science. < 1312229608 516040 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1312229615 771508 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: um ordinary TMs just need finite initialization < 1312229649 417584 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They operate on an infinite tape < 1312229655 205608 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312229670 511614 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: expanding a tape with rewriting is not hard < 1312229681 732425 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, hmm < 1312229721 178482 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;01ABCEH;EN0A0N0E;A0N1;N1B1;A0N0;N1B1;N0A1;C0A1;N1A1;C1N1;N0B0;A0N1;N1B0;A1N1;B1N0;N1B0;B1N1;N1B1;N0C0;B0C1;N1C0;B1N1;C1N0;N1H0;C1N1;N1H1;E;N0; < 1312229736 187744 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that expands the tape quicker than it can be accessed < 1312229755 435592 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't the most memory efficient of techniques, but we're dealing theoretically here < 1312229775 623243 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to implement stacks in it? < 1312229788 527886 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to expand unless the tape head is going into unitialized territory < 1312229805 725662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but this is easier and for a proof just as good < 1312229816 969612 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: almost certainly, but not trivially < 1312229943 240935 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well two stacks, one at each end pointing inwards, would seem pretty trivial < 1312230005 936671 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for more, you get to move information around a lot < 1312230313 248496 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: also, you can implement a stack in any thing TC. just not necessarily easily. :P < 1312230323 675641 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anything < 1312230346 89935 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1312230353 795568 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT is gonna take a bit of work, i'd say < 1312230366 148302 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck even more < 1312230376 536571 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no? < 1312230388 642799 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, in my own conversation < 1312230395 812517 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't mind me < 1312230398 593592 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure a stack in brainfuck is easier than in BCT :P < 1312230437 287847 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking it'd be pretty hard to implement anything much in Luigi < 1312230458 340939 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well brainfuck is easy to compile to a TM, i think, and then to Luigi. < 1312230478 13851 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from IO < 1312230517 648744 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually it'll be a lot of rules if the cell size is big < 1312230529 755861 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolfuck, though, shouldn't be too hard < 1312230553 548108 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :P′′ is Turing Complete with a cell size of three, possibly two, I believe < 1312230572 57577 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could do BF more directly with a unary representation of cells < 1312230587 854389 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: um is this a known result? i was sort of thinking about doing it with 3 < 1312230604 173428 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you said cell _size_, never mind. < 1312230620 623873 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cell size two is just boolfuck, which is TC, yes < 1312230622 4610 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell size is a lot harder than tape length in Luigi < 1312230635 840971 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: not if you do it with unary, i think < 1312230655 613407 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a possibility, but not one I'm going to look into tonight < 1312230686 678971 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: or even binary might not be too hard, actually, i've had some thoughts about /// and this would be similar < 1312230732 869752 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are bored, have a look at that, then. I'm going to bed now < 1312230738 490371 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodnight! < 1312230745 819336 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not _that_ bored :P < 1312230969 947438 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312231064 554075 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312231172 86840 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312231186 815965 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay, I changed my mind < 1312231206 143012 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312231209 120410 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always get your full eight minutes of sleep < 1312231219 862983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to civilisation /o/ < 1312231220 339658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 22 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1312231220 724007 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                             | < 1312231220 928731 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            /| < 1312231226 590695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit lambdabot. < 1312231231 677771 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twenty... < 1312231232 978583 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Popular guy, PH < 1312231268 910000 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott FFS, I've told you already that lambdabot breaks if there are more than 10 or so. < 1312231269 342860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1312231284 13144 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a time in which im especially glad not to be popular < 1312231366 329831 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott I hope you still have the scrollback for the last 14 of those. < 1312231366 620596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1312231398 205697 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo... didn't... know... that... < 1312231402 884799 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1312231414 975147 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :his mind is going, he can feel it < 1312231421 766155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312231428 371133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speak of the devil. < 1312231437 555194 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i was going to say < 1312231446 192090 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, _i_ was going to say it < 1312231455 878761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1312231456 83693 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1312231457 145585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, from PH Reads Logs To Offset Suicide: 03:00:18: Sgeo: The movie.) < 1312231471 515255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This year's blockbuster! < 1312231478 337773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:40:20: Phantom_Hoover: You have 22 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1312231480 782676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDdddddddddddddddddddd < 1312231513 349206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Join Sgeo as he goes on a voyage of discovery to find himself and also that Narnia and Alice in Wonderland were written by different people. < 1312231525 787002 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to move Luigi from my user space now < 1312231531 444108 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want an itidus movie too < 1312231543 597531 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I used to get mixed up with CS Lewis and Lewis Carrol < 1312231546 912163 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alice in Wondernarnia < 1312231549 731205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, did it get even better in the week I was gone? < 1312231553 685604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*week and a half < 1312231600 706717 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been keeping track, but he's still itidus20 < 1312231637 18295 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312231641 117049 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok.. hold on < 1312231655 677100 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll hook you up < 1312231681 170707 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time he put clothes and hair on an elliott in a hole drawn by elliott < 1312231731 162726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, pics or it didn't happen. < 1312231731 595811 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzMEQlK1EBA < 1312231743 308514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:22:14: Hofstadter's too talky < 1312231743 512270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he says nothing interesting < 1312231752 205362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:26:00: I always feel like the odd one out because I'm a computer scientist but not a mystic :D < 1312231752 561395 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-44.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: ramadan < 1312231753 333614 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite so < 1312231754 772316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: what, in here? < 1312231780 626940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, no, I mean of the elliott thing. < 1312231807 969251 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, not here, generally. Among perl programmers, mostly :D < 1312231824 20163 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: 05:37:27: elliott_: i did an edit of it: http://oi51.tinypic.com/34h0z.jpg < 1312231845 989239 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's official, Luigi is an esoteric programming language < 1312231854 718574 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERL = Programmable Eschatology from Religious Loons < 1312231855 439649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, that's... wow. < 1312231866 269956 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1312231932 250411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the artefacts are my fault mind you < 1312231963 591725 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So elliott plays baseball and is a Saiyan? < 1312231972 443203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1312231991 600823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, the Guide claims that Edinburgh is full of giant seagulls. < 1312231993 580324 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is in line with my conception of him < 1312232013 227316 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Quick, make some giant french fries! < 1312232013 879545 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sceptical of this claim, but I do not know how big a normal seagull is. < 1312232028 1662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Guide. < 1312232038 151589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Guardian one. < 1312232042 755848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the minimum number of arbitrarily large cells needed for this to be true? It obviously isn't the case with one. --Graue 15:35, 9 Jun 2005 (GMT) < 1312232042 960304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theoretically, 2 cells (cf Minsky machine); Frank Faase has a proof using 5 cells. --Chris Pressey 18:33, 9 Jun 2005 (GMT) < 1312232049 598164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: go correct chris about two cells < 1312232140 592624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: oko explains integration with infinite bounds < 1312232148 188707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:03:22: the bounds are infinite however. < 1312232148 394049 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:03:26: ..... < 1312232148 394224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:03:43: well, true, you need a big calculator < 1312232151 286547 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of #esoteric < 1312232151 719989 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/07/how-an-argument-with-hawking-suggested-the-universe-is-a-hologram.ars < 1312232173 599767 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i haven't finished showing that 3 are sufficient yet... < 1312232188 805299 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon four wouldn't be too difficult < 1312232197 706965 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: how appropriate, speaking of #esoteric *in* #esoteric < 1312232205 211047 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: SO META < 1312232208 643625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what I mean, two almost certainly aren't, right? < 1312232213 934727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bf doesn't have the same operations as minsky machines < 1312232216 379730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it's the least fixed point of off-topicness. < 1312232250 441270 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it seems unlikely, because every time you exit a loop you have one cell 0, so it's hard not to clobber something < 1312232257 839117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1312232267 246313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm just saying that "theoretically, two (cf minsky)" doesn't hold < 1312232270 65065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1312232274 18281 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1312232410 383181 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Polish have to look so much like polish? < 1312232444 338324 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish as in the nationality of someone from Poland, polish as in make shiny < 1312232496 172144 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because English is stupid < 1312232503 14557 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe Poles are just shiny < 1312232512 269146 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence, pole-ish < 1312232544 992865 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poleish < 1312232592 538260 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw when trying to use the proof that 2 registers for a minsky machine suffices, and merging the machine state into the same BF cell as the product of prime power register, it all very similar to fractran < 1312232610 105815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1312232610 815040 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all becomes < 1312232635 782395 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to such a degree that it looks simplest to just compile fractran to BF < 1312232636 628284 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, these polish puns are neither bad or good enough to be funny < 1312232860 414983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, ever since I noticed a Polish market somewhere I have been meaning to go there and ask for some really obscure type of polish. < 1312232876 106884 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doo eet < 1312232954 783543 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me, I'm looking for some Kiwi Polish < 1312232975 672239 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :get your kiwis all nice and shiny < 1312232978 460757 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312233021 502840 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew a Kiwi Polish girl once :D < 1312233118 984649 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1312233176 19211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:52:53: Is there a reliable means of counting characters in a Unicode string? < 1312233176 221616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:53:13: Code points aren't characters, so even UTF-32 is variable-width wrt characters. :( < 1312233176 221877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define character < 1312233219 677516 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do believe he's meaning "glyph". < 1312233259 26161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think he means grapheme. < 1312233284 950304 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he means printing character < 1312233287 576690 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "glyph". < 1312233297 448426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I knew a Kiwi Polish girl once :D < 1312233302 489223 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was she nice and shiny? < 1312233367 688615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312233367 967017 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, but I'd never seen such black boots in my life. < 1312233398 587226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312233454 866980 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-34.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312233681 828697 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what would be interesting? < 1312233696 793977 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Brainfuck or Lazy K or something Rubik's Cube solver < 1312233735 559279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, $algorithm in $language is normally not terribly interesting. < 1312233754 129362 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, how about the reverse < 1312233765 511390 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Brainfuck solver in a Rubk's Cube < 1312233771 577956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1312233781 50824 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one solve brainfuck < 1312233783 687117 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tricky one, Taneb is < 1312233791 196664 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are Turing-equivalent decision problems... < 1312233879 786987 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any languages based on rubik's cubes < 1312233934 744110 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, well, I don't understand how it actually /works/, but the existence of solutions to polynomials with n variables is Turing-equivalent. < 1312233948 256820 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1312233960 816963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So perhaps there's something similar with Rubik's cube. < 1312233962 990083 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Some subsets of group theory could reasonably be said to be "based on Rubik's cubes" < 1312234150 557450 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, goodnight for real now < 1312234164 688118 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: or is it...? Tune in next week to find out! < 1312234482 881235 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, the word problem for groups is undecidable, so most likely TC... < 1312234486 641081 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1312234585 746969 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course rubik's cube itself is finite, so pretty decidable i should think < 1312234666 331823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nxnxn, of course. < 1312234729 250235 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubik's hypercube < 1312234730 240139 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: _integer_ solutions, mind you. it's decidable for reals, and still open for rationals (somewhat recently discussed in godel's lost letter) < 1312234756 826232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinitely big rubiks' cube < 1312234757 662965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss < 1312234781 832689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, infinite from a particular corner, or along all sides? < 1312234791 96085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sides < 1312234794 17180 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a physical puzzle whose symmetry group was the monster < 1312234805 540547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still do all the turns, ofc < 1312234846 375279 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1312235606 340804 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.35 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312236104 622944 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1312236251 598523 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312236362 824740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh what, the Humble Bundle now includes /another/ game? < 1312236366 152458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE YOU GUYS I'LL BUY IT OK < 1312237005 287495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312237612 330212 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312238404 80263 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE < 1312238575 384070 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T THINK WE DESERVE TO BE FINED < 1312238580 460591 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312238614 675436 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312238726 894966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, YES YOU DO < 1312238806 513393 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CANNOT PROVE IT < 1312241835 171459 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Paradoxes make physicists happy." < 1312242138 716243 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, they do? < 1312242198 352453 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so someone found an exploit in some apple laptops.. which means the battery can be killed < 1312242229 251789 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty bad.... < 1312242231 437359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the physicists are overjoyed? < 1312242242 719176 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :champagne corks < 1312242280 447561 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottoms up you old bastards < 1312242294 288698 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting on the ritz < 1312242476 806729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This film will be the best. < 1312242496 648714 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, struggling young artist and renaissance man... < 1312242532 878191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can tie in with Sgeo: the Movie! < 1312242540 123731 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But who would be cast as who... < 1312242595 213081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would played by David Tennant, as the villain trying to murder KT-AT.) < 1312242613 814876 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott can be Christopher Eccleston, because they're both from the North. < 1312242631 611529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not nearly camp enough. < 1312242663 98073 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christopher Eccleston is camp? < 1312242675 262340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much what he's famous for as the Doctor, yes. < 1312242685 74865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of a... mild camp. < 1312242686 938857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except amplified. < 1312242702 903107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like turning down your speakers really low, playing something, recording it, and then amplifying that. < 1312242705 256950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is logical. < 1312242737 747359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Vorpal would be played by the guy who played Wallander because that's the closest I get to naming a Swedish actor. < 1312242803 381509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey would obviously be played by Ian McKellen. < 1312242828 110874 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also who else is famous, and actor and From the North? < 1312242835 855065 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not from the North, that's entirely different.) < 1312242863 56708 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312242872 124407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Me. < 1312242878 567124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an actor < 1312242882 17217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Me. < 1312242887 705912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal can be played by Vorpal because nobody else can be that boring. < 1312242896 861455 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have you *seen* Wallander? < 1312242899 474419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We will coerce him to with the EVIL POWERS of... money, because that's all he's boring enough to fall for. < 1312242926 447965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's impossible, such is the boredom.) < 1312242941 800141 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/j54n4/if_plants_are_constantly_exposed_to_the_sun_why/ < 1312242947 319202 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I read /r/AskScience. < 1312243058 744147 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you like stupid questions? < 1312243242 153263 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't a stupid question... < 1312243359 411645 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064186.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312244139 704180 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064186.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312244283 922370 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312244429 476540 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a funny question, at least < 1312245717 450180 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/j66uq/is_it_possible_to_heat_the_planet_via_burning/ < 1312245720 418365 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1312245903 395958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1312246325 402982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey who plays DF here. < 1312246337 997995 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i play df < 1312246356 930221 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played a couple of times < 1312246368 755804 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never remember the damn key bindings < 1312246375 303865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Yes. Mostly so that you can tell me what (textual) tileset to use. < 1312246383 847637 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but that's what I wanted to know < 1312246389 875026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably square, preferably doesn't make text COMPLETELY UNREADABLE, and none of that fancy curved wall stuff. < 1312246402 150591 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are things I want to know < 1312246404 779127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one that recognises that my screen is high-resolution and high-dpi i.e. not tiny. < 1312246409 191132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: WELL I WANT TO KNOW THEM TOO < 1312246421 674347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also one where dwarfs have beards, I can't bear not having them. < 1312246507 786685 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: m4h uo+ nujaepeqle? < 1312247477 395295 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago, i'm sure i shared some code here for some various things < 1312247497 673600 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dc interpreter, an oisc virtual machine for example < 1312247513 89448 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't suppose anyone still has a copy of any of that code? < 1312247813 98074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasnt it on pastebin < 1312247844 23755 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's shameless self-promotion on #erlang < 1312247844 593794 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://amtal.github.com/2011/07/19/unix-pipes-pointless-functional-programming.html < 1312247849 575824 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin.ca appears to be defunct < 1312247849 860096 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thoughts? < 1312247864 449130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it was offline then online then offline again < 1312247881 319233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: oleg said that years ago. < 1312247883 568559 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: TO THE LOGS < 1312247892 371200 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: i've been grepping to no avail < 1312247896 604531 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't doubt it. < 1312247911 367382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/monadic-shell.html < 1312247928 559042 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it's the stuff about LFE at the end that was vaguely interesting < 1312247986 293338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but your language doesn’t support pointfree style?" can you not define operators in erlang < 1312247990 934879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uh varargs functions < 1312247996 644709 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some stuff on pastebin, other stuff on a personal server which is also no good < 1312248024 791763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: sounds like you're fucked < 1312248044 958215 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, unless someone happened to save something < 1312248081 32912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i might have a copy of bsmntbot lying around on another computer < 1312248083 329769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it though < 1312248097 680548 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did bsmntbot do < 1312248109 447715 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@c-24-9-98-117.hsd1.co.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: everything AWESOME < 1312248138 541278 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064186.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312248146 172635 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like that the thing could be interpreted as "Well, I guess erlang's not that awesome after all, I guess Lisp is the way" < 1312248455 412658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is opengl so bad :( < 1312248476 645158 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad developers? < 1312248506 353366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no the api < 1312248518 849464 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :opengl has the worst api < 1312248526 553110 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything worse < 1312248531 125758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :death?? < 1312248534 607354 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1312248538 173377 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Glib < 1312248542 675651 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being drawn and quartered < 1312248547 303441 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try to stay away from glib < 1312248573 845291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no way < 1312248586 707482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can avoid gobject almost entirely when using glib < 1312248588 553584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :opengl < 1312248589 935166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the horribleness < 1312248591 99271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is everywhere < 1312248622 327862 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :last night I tried to opengl again and I just couldn't do it < 1312248631 684104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312248636 700738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im trying to opengl from haskell but < 1312248640 643159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that it isnt better that way < 1312248641 402716 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was too < 1312248641 687510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its worse < 1312248645 768838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1312248651 436911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :upon exposure to the opengl < 1312248652 431205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell goes < 1312248653 429297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312248670 108936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: were you doing it with sdl too, are you actually me < 1312248685 339034 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312248708 817353 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had made something earlier with GLFW-b and I was porting it to SDL for comparison and just died < 1312248711 518660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what were you trying to code,,, you may actually be me...supsicisous < 1312248732 483817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of gave up on everything GLFW because it forces all your callbacks to be in IO < 1312248736 661256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gues sthat might be okay but < 1312248742 375304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but um SDL is actually nicer?? < 1312248744 607193 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what I dislike about GLFW < 1312248751 894547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL's api is really nice < 1312248753 622458 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I wanted to compare them < 1312248777 122716 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I couldn't even get the GLFW lib from Hackage to compile < 1312248779 818924 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURPRISE < 1312248783 337890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: GLFW-b is different < 1312248785 664552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an alternate binding < 1312248788 343578 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1312248789 97588 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing i was porting was just a little thing with spinning boxes. for comparison between GLFW-b and SDL. so I would know what to use to make my magical graphics library so i would be able to avoid opengl and still have things the way i wanted them < 1312248798 22487 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLFW-b is better than GLFW imo < 1312248800 784328 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, fine, I'll go with real awfulness. < 1312248802 64658 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Win32. < 1312248809 256319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what problem did you have with SDL? < 1312248816 43534 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't say it twice more, you'll some Beelzebub) < 1312248816 328239 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it wasn't SDL that killed me < 1312248820 300756 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*summon < 1312248823 361499 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was looking at opengl again < 1312248833 515631 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the thing that finally did me in was matrixMode < 1312248837 5004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also: can i have your spinning boxes code, currently my minecraft code is blocked on "how do i get this fucking box to draw without being stretched and dark grey" < 1312248843 604993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i should write camera-moving code < 1312248854 309097 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my spinning box code kind of sucks :( < 1312248861 692353 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all 2d too < 1312248864 229729 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that matters < 1312248864 431162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312248870 722864 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by sucks I mean < 1312248872 824101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i dunno it can't suck more than my threedee stuff < 1312248875 771366 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't taken the time to make it pretty < 1312248882 802035 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I died before then < 1312248891 414390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let size = length xs * 3 * sizeOf (undefined :: GL.GLfloat) < 1312248891 699395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ptr <- mallocBytes size < 1312248891 902250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : foldM (\idx (a,b,c) -> do pokeElemOff ptr (idx*3) a < 1312248891 902439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pokeElemOff ptr ((idx*3)+1) b < 1312248891 902548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pokeElemOff ptr ((idx*3)+2) c < 1312248892 267689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return (idx+1)) 0 xs < 1312248898 53798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.vertexAttribPointer (GL.AttribLocation 0) GL.$= (GL.ToFloat, GL.VertexArrayDescriptor (fromIntegral (length xs)) GL.Float 3 ptr) < 1312248901 338915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let f v = [v,(0,0,0.51),(0,0.51,0.51),(0,0.51,0),(0.51,0.51,0),(0.51,0,0),(0.51,0,1),(0,0,0.51)] < 1312248901 623446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let xs = f (0,0,0) ++ f (0.51,0.51,0.51) :: [(GL.GLfloat,GL.GLfloat,GL.GLfloat)] < 1312248903 502107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a few sample lines < 1312248907 399240 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i died < 1312248907 600933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your code cannot possibly be worse than this < 1312248910 746778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh the pointer stuff its just like < 1312248913 636437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code currently segfaults < 1312248916 433886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should not even be possible :( < 1312248919 874272 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312248927 381761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :segfaults should not even be a thing that are a thing. < 1312248936 410447 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to try gpipe just to see if it was better but it didn;t compile so whatever < 1312248940 61653 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is gpipe bad < 1312248953 857646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is an alternative to using OpenGl, and has the advantage that it is purely functional, statically typed and operates on immutable data as opposed to OpenGl's inherently imperative style. Another important difference with OpenGl is that with GPipe you don't need to write shaders in a second shader language such as GLSL or Cg, but instead use regular Haskell functions on the GPU data types." < 1312248964 719524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it sounds like a really nice library that you can't use because it's stupidly unfinihed < 1312248967 59569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GLUT is used in GPipe for window management and the main loop." < 1312248968 479506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312248993 79869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312248996 460788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on Deewiant's trie library < 1312249050 528225 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant wrote GLUT? < 1312249053 444573 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL < 1312249059 797630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah totally that is what i said < 1312249068 5160 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312249073 251479 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im attest < 1312249075 741424 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was only paying half-attention < 1312249080 56649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: gpipe seems nice but like < 1312249092 73131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too... experimental? I don't want to say that but < 1312249100 651986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like writing my own shader dsl thing would be a better choice < 1312249111 495894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the GLUT dependency is kind of silly < 1312249117 897507 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312249135 324020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how spinny r ur boxes < 1312249143 207380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine dont even pspin :( < 1312249147 146323 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one of them spins and goes up and down < 1312249151 834194 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one goes side to side < 1312249154 272229 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :without spinning < 1312249180 218307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is so advantacesd < 1312249188 661323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plz impart on me, ur wisdom < 1312249225 559807 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a square thing that draws a square.... and i use preservingMatrix??????? < 1312249257 711941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1312249259 340256 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i hope i used preservingMatrix properly < 1312249259 446790 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312249265 3385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dont even know < 1312249285 327978 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1312249291 570717 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312249297 215867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need ur wisdom in my life < 1312249299 546673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i cannot opengl,ever, < 1312249314 369673 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you push a new matrix onto the matrix stack and then do the action supplied as an argument and then pop the matrix off < 1312249329 114536 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the matrix transformations done in there are nice and contained < 1312249332 761550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow; < 1312249336 498501 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't muck up the rest of everything else < 1312249337 303903 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's just going to come up with some other standard tomorrow and all the OpenGL effort will have been in vain~ < 1312249341 794526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much does your code, cost, < 1312249349 642820 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cosT??? < 1312249353 895565 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312249359 129732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for access to its AMZING, POWERS < 1312249400 274447 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cosT = 1/secT < 1312249410 260685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at example GPipe code... it would be kind of nice except that this static-length vector code has an ugly interface < 1312249411 270545 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 NICK :augur[sleep] < 1312249423 993433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i dont even think its being used in a >one-d manner so........ < 1312249433 604532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what cost,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at WHAT jcoist, < 1312249503 578182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: AT WHAT COST MONQY < 1312249507 421216 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihhhh < 1312249508 597666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW FAR WILL YOU GO < 1312249509 183028 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fre? < 1312249527 283112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::OOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1312249530 400790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are so generous < 1312249533 982679 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a wonderfully dramatic bit of the conversation to waltz in on. < 1312249537 247292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im one day hope be as genreous as yuo < 1312249540 305906 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this code is guly < 1312249541 898408 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT WOULD YOU DOO-OO-OO FOR SOME WORKING OPENGL CODE? < 1312249549 5374 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1312249554 263627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im guly too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,................... we all have our roels in theis world < 1312249563 341082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{- GL.defineNewList GL.CompileAndExecute $ do -} < 1312249563 544392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{- do < 1312249563 544574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- ??? < 1312249563 747743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.color (GL.Color3 (maxBound::GL.GLbyte) maxBound maxBound) < 1312249563 747927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : {- GL.renderPrimitive GL.Lines $ do < 1312249564 260378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex2 (-0.9::GL.GLdouble) 0.9 < 1312249566 169620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.vertex $ GL.Vertex2 (0.9::GL.GLdouble) (-0.9)-} < 1312249568 148685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let f v = mapM_ (\(x,y,z) -> GL.vertex (GL.Vertex3 (x::GL.GLdouble) y z)) [v,(0,0,0.51),(0,0.51,0.51),(0,0.51,0),(0.51,0.51,0),(0.51,0,0),(0.51,0,1),(0,0,0.51)] < 1312249568 823871 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to specify whether i am using glfloats or gldoubles or it won'te even compile wTF? < 1312249571 287539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the comments are guly < 1312249579 559104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well thatstzh inherent < 1312249581 8735 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stop laughing < 1312249611 395141 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what rotate even does < 1312249615 664518 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsides rotate < 1312249636 518646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ur people need youuuuuuu < 1312249639 721590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur people = me < 1312249664 409225 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am cleanign upt it..... < 1312249678 569507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally a clean tit...................... < 1312249712 409410 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I leave? Are you two having a moment? < 1312249722 415291 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three, even. < 1312249751 784688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: its,,,,,,, life < 1312249782 340867 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312249844 498954 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312249854 518174 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1312249951 725631 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think its cleaner now?? < 1312249952 222589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is ur upt tit,clen < 1312249955 136552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1312249975 873854 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearnwer...but not.....ttotaly clean.... < 1312249988 877200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i can cleanse it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it is my duty < 1312249993 491416 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it misses out on a bit of sepearation of concern et c because it was a really quicke thing < 1312250003 71096 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anywa....heres the rendering ....of the bozxwse < 1312250005 11205 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :render :: GL.GLdouble -> GL.GLdouble -> IO () < 1312250005 296519 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :render width time = do < 1312250005 498410 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.clear [GL.ColorBuffer] < 1312250005 498491 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.color (GL.Color3 0 0 (1 :: GL.GLdouble)) < 1312250007 721265 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.preservingMatrix $ do < 1312250010 277102 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.translate (GL.Vector3 (100 * sin time) 0 0) < 1312250012 661738 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : square width < 1312250015 346162 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.preservingMatrix $ do < 1312250017 666032 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.translate (GL.Vector3 0 (200 * sin time) 0) < 1312250020 272319 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.rotate (time * 100) (GL.Vector3 0 0 (1 :: GL.GLdouble)) < 1312250022 883015 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : square width < 1312250025 245914 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :square :: GL.GLdouble -> IO () < 1312250027 135325 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312250027 758121 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :square w = GL.renderPrimitive GL.Quads $ do < 1312250030 503623 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : vt w w < 1312250032 936090 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : vt w (-w) < 1312250035 355995 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : vt (-w) (-w) < 1312250037 726456 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : vt (-w) w < 1312250040 221424 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vt :: GL.GLdouble -> GL.GLdouble -> IO () < 1312250042 723744 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vt x y = GL.vertex (GL.Vertex2 x y) < 1312250045 260545 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too cool for.pastebisn/ < 1312250055 102806 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently. < 1312250058 826624 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312250079 354037 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, why "do"? < 1312250088 506128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dont you have any other GL functions in the program < 1312250090 36179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a lot of < 1312250092 601596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :light initialisiation < 1312250093 312901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things < 1312250094 21872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312250096 403792 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's tjuset the rendering < 1312250099 250287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i dont, know what to do with them < 1312250103 8398 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you want the ienteklziaton too?? < 1312250111 269850 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because.... i have very little cloae about that either. < 1312250114 585430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yezsjop, i am but a poor pheasant < 1312250117 291049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no cloaes < 1312250127 99382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.klein.com/dvk/photos/birds/golden_pheasant.jpg me < 1312250130 671424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note lack of cloaes < 1312250144 120785 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I FEEL AS THOUGH I HAVE FALLEN IN A WORLD WHICH IS NOT LIKE THE WORLD TO WHICH I AM USED < 1312250144 392234 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is glfw-b becase i died before porteng the sdl'e < 1312250169 444434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: you need cloaes < 1312250314 47482 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i guess i didn't do much initalization < 1312250316 1871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: together, we will escaepje the opengl teror < 1312250317 9498 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1312250318 274729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312250321 98246 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lto of it < 1312250321 300513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :none at all???????????:( < 1312250321 502909 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1312250324 134439 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most is GLFW < 1312250324 602478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im basically just < 1312250326 871116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a clue on anything < 1312250328 469771 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except ofr this really nasty bit < 1312250329 38578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that starts with "GL." < 1312250348 662501 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the openGL initty stuff is iwthin an GLFW callbacke < 1312250358 360083 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part that....isnt: < 1312250362 487979 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GL.clearColor $= GL.Color4 0 0 0 0 < 1312250374 159185 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the part that...is: < 1312250378 146052 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GLFW.setWindowSizeCallback $ \ w h -> do < 1312250378 348472 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : let size = GL.Size (fromIntegral w) (fromIntegral h) < 1312250378 348643 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.viewport $= (GL.Position 0 0, size) < 1312250378 348752 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.matrixMode $= GL.Projection < 1312250378 348858 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.loadIdentity < 1312250380 551341 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.ortho2D 0 (realToFrac w) (realToFrac h) 0 < 1312250382 997104 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.translate $ GL.Vector3 (realToFrac w / 2) (realToFrac h / 2) (0 :: GL.GLdouble) < 1312250415 183368 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically means whenever you resize the window you make a new view thingy and center it???? < 1312250425 627363 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a ...better waY? < 1312250428 394786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell resizes windows, < 1312250431 646912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just use a fixed size, < 1312250447 481345 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should do that < 1312250457 426250 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1312250460 437861 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bad thing < 1312250479 920713 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason GLFW stuff stopped getting floated so it gets tiled which messes it all u;p < 1312250485 429842 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SDL stuff gets flaoted though < 1312250485 861286 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1312250497 504056 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i use SDL...no problem?? < 1312250510 403271 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really should stop dieying, finish porting....myabe later < 1312250558 594876 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Myabe indeed. < 1312250661 312432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if you give me the file i could port it to SDL,,, and then,, transform it into doing cubes, so that, eventually, my entire game would be descended from ur code............................ a once in a lifetime opportunity of lineaejge (this is total lies id probably throw it out after i got it doing cubes and then modularise it) < 1312250706 756254 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what af its..embaraseng < 1312250724 265601 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(acause of its is.) < 1312250740 15601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YouH ATLK TO ME ABOUT EMBARASIONEGNG.... YOU CANT ENHANDLE THE ENMAHERBSINGYLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOKE AT MY SHAME,,,: http://sprunge.us/dNeD < 1312250743 592724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM TORN ASUNDER < 1312250750 816380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS PRISON OF SHAME I CAN NEVER ESCAPE < 1312250756 227095 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god'e < 1312250788 590122 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right one thing i didn't like about SDL......using 1 instead of True for SDL.glSetAttribute......what? < 1312250824 12601 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god all the 3d stuff < 1312250831 131520 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hurts and i am not even to the pointer pokery < 1312250841 713921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah so,,, dont U tell ME about embaraseng < 1312250849 749044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im practicaly an eorphan of gl < 1312250852 110339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ur denying me hot gl soup < 1312250863 275607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointer pokerery is,,, an optimzioejnigatinog < 1312250876 22380 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimzioejnigatinogs make me died < 1312250956 278384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts to starv,e of lack of gl soup...... my life < 1312250998 782272 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cleanigne ite up..>? < 1312251000 744628 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312251101 181365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ur a vitcim < 1312251102 477104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of society < 1312251177 512170 :parcs!~patrick@unaffiliated/parcs JOIN :#esoteric < 1312251196 312262 :parcs!~patrick@unaffiliated/parcs PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 0.3.5" < 1312251237 321335 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have these really great functions I made < 1312251243 455947 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't think of half-decent names for them < 1312251276 371842 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing b m = b >>= flip when m < 1312251280 317054 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and another but for unless) < 1312251316 976174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hahahaha < 1312251319 861247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really called thing < 1312251326 174315 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312251332 786097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did you write that just now when cleaning it up or was it actually already there < 1312251336 72492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl b >>= flip when m < 1312251336 500267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip when m =<< b < 1312251340 64721 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312251343 477281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl b >>= \b' -> if b' then m else return () < 1312251344 47512 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (flip if' m) (return ()) =<< b < 1312251350 735875 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was already there < 1312251352 584711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hleps, at yuoere service? < 1312251376 731483 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whjat is that < 1312251391 125427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you asked ed for helpes < 1312251403 634654 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that.....thing's name>???????????????????????? < 1312251414 258171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : help < 1312251436 306438 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to think of a half decent name right now they are thing and notThing < 1312251464 511728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: whenM? < 1312251470 150109 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i uh < 1312251472 643710 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a conefesion < 1312251475 106020 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was its < 1312251476 99558 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :former name < 1312251481 880961 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i changed it to thing < 1312251483 994540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: show me, a usgae, of ite, < 1312251484 694852 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i got frustrated < 1312251486 686689 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with whenM < 1312251498 61715 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : notThing GLFW.initialize < 1312251498 602579 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : (fail "failed to initialize") < 1312251503 444016 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that used to be unlessM) < 1312251521 902228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: whats wrong with just < 1312251527 364748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLFW.initialize >>= wh... oh right < 1312251529 496001 :Fenhl!~Fenhl@p4FE11ED9.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312251529 779548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well um < 1312251536 355140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I'd just have (flip when) as something < 1312251538 311836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (flip unless) < 1312251540 608662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could say < 1312251555 158616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GLFW.initialize >= orM $ fail "failed to initialize" < 1312251556 608742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe??? < 1312251560 455786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orM/andM < 1312251562 220250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1312251580 319570 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that (but just (flip when) and (flip unless) no fancy names) before it was whenM < 1312251594 391340 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i got frustrated and made whenM < 1312251598 618323 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i got frustrated and made thing < 1312251658 615853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :letse, ask haskel < 1312251673 915624 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell? < 1312251693 373807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : What's a good name for (\b m -> b >>= flip when m)? (and the same with when -> unless). I've been using whenM/unlessM, but those are kind of ugly. < 1312251694 253186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im become you < 1312251703 65265 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanske youe < 1312251746 148635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, *shrug* ugly how? < 1312251746 434638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : uglier than mapM, filterM, zipWithM, etc? < 1312251748 562380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he;lp monqy < 1312251797 884402 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :takcing M onto things makes me feel bad i donte even know if whenM follows the same namethodology as those others which is part of my frustratosn :'( < 1312251809 743335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well with those < 1312251810 754676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM < 1312251811 755914 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m [b] < 1312251812 599109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t filterM < 1312251813 751643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a -> m Bool) -> [a] -> m [a] < 1312251814 700854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWithM < 1312251815 553029 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (m :: * -> *) c. (Monad m) => (a -> b -> m c) -> [a] -> [b] -> m [c] < 1312251819 948327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it tends to take a monadic function < 1312251825 440281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the actual "value" being operated on is non-monadic < 1312251866 124469 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guese i will go back to whenM/unlessM now i feel less bad. < 1312251969 117962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yese kmc is , convinucnging me < 1312252081 869632 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think its < 1312252082 864303 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ready < 1312252119 5899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im < 1312252120 712648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rady < 1312252121 915706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mentally) < 1312252239 252572 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/help.tar.bz2 shoulde be eit < 1312252251 923241 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kindly, compressed < 1312252289 602251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kindley, < 1312252336 622950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is, a work of great beuty, < 1312252343 594859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asterisk booty < 1312252360 609067 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tepyed it all with ym....posteriour < 1312252370 488790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a posteriori < 1312252384 903944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did u modularise it, just for me, < 1312252391 355055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im, feel so lucky, if that is, the case, < 1312252391 559047 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ;like that..aredly < 1312252394 276600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1312252402 101272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<,-- not so lucky but (still apprecijoateive) < 1312252436 285346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im, install glfw-b, to try it, < 1312252452 727663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also, im, maybe try out that GPipe thing? < 1312252460 730546 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it compile for you < 1312252464 509631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im, dont know yet, < 1312252469 966534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im try glfw-b tfrist, < 1312252507 761043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is, its name, "help", < 1312252517 41323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my gosh it is the most beautiful box display ive ever encountered < 1312252526 198668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowee is, the best game, < 1312252537 621756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it, is using all my cpu ? < 1312252555 186743 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt borhter throtelying the framerate oops < 1312252567 909093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, < 1312252576 580212 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time.... < 1312252583 605224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but, arent you meant to, like, not throttle but, < 1312252587 18176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :insetad base thing son, real time < 1312252595 448363 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it does now maybe?? < 1312252601 222678 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ther'es a clocky thing < 1312252617 155676 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it bases the rotation on that if id di d it right so many ages ago... < 1312252621 18710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im, must resist urge, to make this game purely-functional frp < 1312252630 304381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I cabal install, GPipe < 1312252641 324517 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :--glabol < 1312252641 892613 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :purely functional frp sounds goodis it good < 1312252643 715446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 329 2011-07-24 03:06 Input.hs < 1312252646 621344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im truly ages, < 1312252652 782305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes, FRP is, so cool, < 1312252695 779 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the touching it on 24 was porting it glfw->glfw-b i think < 1312252702 725883 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i originally wrote it much longer ago i think < 1312252706 378660 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :months.... < 1312252723 41840 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the ... best ... frp library < 1312252749 602115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: unfortaentounely, none of them, < 1312252750 118643 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are too many < 1312252752 621758 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312252756 825138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :frp is, fraught, with problems, for, reasons, < 1312252761 811298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reason onE, space laeak < 1312252765 951752 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1312252772 650092 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bananabananabanana < 1312252775 194795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reason TWo, you can avoid space leak if you avoid using functions as structure but then this become ugly........................... < 1312252786 141588 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho no < 1312252788 689778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: luke palmer, says, that if you have al azy specialiser, you can use the obvious model and, the space leak, goes away,,,, < 1312252794 334392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but,,, we do not have,, a lazy specialiser................................. < 1312252805 530479 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard of a thing rdp was it here or ltu mayve both does it fix frps bprolems < 1312252806 239661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: is, banana, a good frp....... < 1312252813 591483 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even...finoished....usab.ey < 1312252821 553435 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/reactive-banana < 1312252822 549416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: remote desktop protocol, sdoes no, fijxioaje, frp, < 1312252824 690819 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard good things < 1312252828 2426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: im know, is it good, but, ok < 1312252843 684035 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reactive.....something...programming....i think < 1312252845 531126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think, i remember, what you are saying about, but, what was the name.... < 1312252867 762479 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :demand < 1312252868 591510 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the d < 1312252890 920872 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a webpage,,,but i forgrot everything it said < 1312252894 408675 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1312252906 661324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reactive demand pugs < 1312253083 210818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok i, < 1312253084 951213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :installed gpipe, < 1312253086 307828 :Fenhl!~Fenhl@p4FE11ED9.dip.t-dialin.net PART :#esoteric < 1312253087 911627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it not, work for you? < 1312253092 20766 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uh < 1312253093 386355 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget < 1312253097 606816 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think itwas the examples < 1312253099 625666 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didfnt'e compile < 1312253104 149440 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i kind of < 1312253105 576529 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gave up then < 1312253107 644522 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1312253136 739877 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the < 1312253139 174838 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpipe-examples < 1312253141 363259 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1312253172 959864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will try or nyou < 1312253176 685873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal: unrecognised command: intsall (try --help) < 1312253179 183834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312253184 937911 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :try...install < 1312253231 602409 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this, Let's Do Some Haskell Whilst Intoxicated? < 1312253231 881588 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow gpipe-exmaples is compiling < 1312253238 785610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: me too, < 1312253241 916591 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im too young to intocixatiod < 1312253254 45429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: keayboeards are not eahsyi, stop awaviong your advatnages < 1312253257 894159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some ouf seus have bad fngiers < 1312253277 616427 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just too lazy to georcete myself <:( usually not here i am not as lazy < 1312253283 949539 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :georcete what < 1312253287 811623 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant < 1312253288 830196 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1312253293 817131 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not georcete what is georcete < 1312253307 82300 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why is the compilation of example 2 hanging i think i had this problem last time < 1312253316 410823 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when i tried to hand-compile them...it exploded < 1312253338 627623 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by exploded I mean < 1312253338 829600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, hangging for me, too, not, reassuring < 1312253339 880202 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work < 1312253348 967464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets, find out whats in the box < 1312253356 544191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at, the box < 1312253363 459716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1312253368 104263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: look at demonHead :: [CUChar] < 1312253374 856335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fucking gigantic list < 1312253375 721416 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :demonHead < 1312253379 145514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at it < 1312253381 988397 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :og hod < 1312253382 840651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get gpipe examples and just look at it < 1312253383 997318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one < 1312253388 130373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1312253395 102368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who thought that wwas a good idea < 1312253407 517037 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ogh od < 1312253423 823639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION control c < 1312253425 793748 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor < 1312253427 191601 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc < 1312253429 449671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: gpipe examples, bad examples, < 1312253431 439773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe gpipe, not bad, < 1312253433 563037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1312253437 210273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo :. bar :. () < 1312253438 745953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad, because ugly, < 1312253445 41155 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i dislike it too < 1312253445 609350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe, wrappable < 1312253449 666155 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it a thing < 1312253455 845656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: static-length vectors at compile time < 1312253467 222965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im look here for goodneess: http://www.koonsolo.com/news/dewitters-gameloop/ < 1312253484 423335 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there < 1312253497 90333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im "Constant Game Speed independent of Variable FPS" looks good < 1312253504 203668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it is, continuation, of famous, article baout game loops, < 1312253536 172255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im, try porting help, to sdl, < 1312253552 693735 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good;e lucke < 1312253557 519274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- windopening < 1312253560 708732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like, your comnets < 1312253561 86541 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i het e at the end of words helpe < 1312253592 729192 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting e at the end of words is the worse t reflesx < 1312253597 34609 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...... < 1312253599 853278 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BEST???? < 1312253615 814245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/SDL/0.6.2/doc/html/Graphics-UI-SDL-Time.html < 1312253617 732497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should,,, i use this, < 1312253628 140029 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1312253629 866689 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a godo thing < 1312253635 891319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SDL_GetTicks() tells how many milliseconds have past since an arbitrary point in the past. < 1312253636 93562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1312253640 137530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe???? < 1312253674 778647 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than getcpu time maybe since word32 more fficient than Integer milliseconds more eficient than picosecodns help?? < 1312253678 194026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , GLFW.displayOptions_numAlphaBits = 8 }) < 1312253680 610084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not, bit depth right, < 1312253682 485106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just alpha bit depth, < 1312253688 341666 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpha bit depth < 1312253690 762372 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312253693 659452 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thingk < 1312253694 833364 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1312253791 829781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- using angle for things other than rotation like a TOTAL LOSER < 1312253792 540757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312253800 521213 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1312253803 320836 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't kwnoe < 1312253805 184307 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what todoo < 1312253809 432041 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i had to < 1312253811 439129 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :discipline myself < 1312253812 285541 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in coments < 1312253821 864146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dont like how you leave a blank line after all your imports < 1312253822 432567 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1312253837 50813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, so there is, < 1312253839 393566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two blank lines before code, < 1312253860 487723 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually do double-blank to sepearte sections of code (and a single blank to sepearate different things in the same section) < 1312253872 289755 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i group imports/definitions/whateverelse like this < 1312253883 938099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im think that, more than two blank lines, is a bad thing, probably, < 1312253887 549554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do the GNU thing, and use form feed, < 1312253905 610468 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for big monadic actions with do notations i pepper blank lines throguhout them since there are lots of different things happened < 1312254006 101602 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this < 1312254007 976725 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu theng < 1312254027 893763 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: < 1312254028 177692 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nu THAng < 1312254028 379649 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUn THIng < 1312254030 165177 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember if this came from this channel < 1312254030 366947 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helep < 1312254030 722458 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/j4ohk/explain_the_pnp_problem_li5/ < 1312254039 384291 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: GNU metal < 1312254084 952571 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not feel comfortable with form feeds < 1312254085 804937 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are < 1312254087 367901 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too powerful < 1312254097 618136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok, im, almost done convertheing it < 1312254132 125254 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1312254134 530070 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beaugtufle < 1312254231 543575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: more, beautifuler, < 1312254249 195395 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes me hapey < 1312254276 805742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also I think, most people use GLfloat, rather than GLdouble, < 1312254285 861526 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312254287 548563 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is glfloat < 1312254288 361426 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1312254294 152709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also i take it, your things are all separate IORefs, because of glfw, < 1312254300 440803 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312254301 996470 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312254305 893701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should, probably use ReaderT, with MVars, < 1312254311 409499 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probalby, < 1312254319 63085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, can do that, since I am also, going to use that < 1312254334 840385 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aslo i was using float last time but then if reaked out and changed it to double but why < 1312254342 57498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is theta, < 1312254343 991037 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i am bad at reasons < 1312254356 557397 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :theta is a lot of thjings < 1312254367 199406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I do not quite understand, this theta stuff < 1312254370 661399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh game loops < 1312254373 159430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1312254375 116709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :game busyloops < 1312254375 685668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312254381 288294 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1312254396 952283 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :theta was the rotation angle but then other stuff happened < 1312254398 791148 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like translation < 1312254399 592291 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the sake of curiosity, whose mannerisms are you mimicking right now? < 1312254402 458062 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1312254406 877212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: ours < 1312254417 64678 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it became averything < 1312254425 444553 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fun. < 1312254430 342172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its ok, im going to, give it a proper game loop < 1312254432 21442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovingly < 1312254436 800968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye bye, quitter thing, < 1312254440 344115 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye bye < 1312254443 931372 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will not, miss you < 1312254468 78406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so what is theta exactly < 1312254472 647067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like < 1312254473 904587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a game counter < 1312254476 804788 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ther eis no exact meaning < 1312254478 111215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point?? < 1312254482 720301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like ticks isn't it < 1312254483 577297 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :check render for usage < 1312254484 428351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you like < 1312254486 160138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312254488 802408 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ticks goes in time < 1312254494 294526 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1312254496 538055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : modifyIORef theta (+ (delta * 10)) < 1312254497 958897 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :time goes in time < 1312254499 517299 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :check render for ticks < 1312254501 692277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does theta ever decrease < 1312254512 454426 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312254514 493380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok so basically time is time, theta is ticks, which happen to be used as angle < 1312254517 402811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right??///// < 1312254524 568355 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe?? < 1312254535 33872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see im, not sure why you have a time ioref, < 1312254540 461045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you only read it directly after writing it < 1312254544 429057 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of < 1312254545 933414 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget < 1312254546 808518 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1312254548 95507 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have it < 1312254550 88940 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1312254553 182632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1312254577 269264 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it s historical cruft i never removed < 1312254578 989035 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probalby < 1312254581 593348 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my answer < 1312254731 518368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL_GetTicks -- Gets the number of milliseconds since SDL library initialization. < 1312254742 867833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :least helpful thing ever but ok < 1312254748 972735 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably better than getCPUTime or whatever i used < 1312254879 549905 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How is that unhelpful? < 1312254887 16730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too, arbaojrbtary, < 1312254889 215774 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped paying attention because of your shenanigans. < 1312254895 413884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :our shannigans < 1312254896 135140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are good < 1312254897 155876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312254897 629643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :racist < 1312254919 351197 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're the first one to say anything about race. Now who's the racist? < 1312254923 36173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :raciest < 1312254926 322293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also, does your key stuff trigger on key up, or key down < 1312254930 326010 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrowr. < 1312255036 7834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also, you indent, by one too many spaces, < 1312255038 94294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312255094 977580 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im back. hi < 1312255102 136531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how many ticks per second do you do, < 1312255103 873590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot figure it out, < 1312255115 60739 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1312255132 905913 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed frame rates make me sad. < 1312255149 65420 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it triggers on key down i think < 1312255163 347942 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or while the key is held down < 1312255164 886591 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1312255177 778848 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for ticks per second, uhh, what's a tick < 1312255187 655093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: your, delta thing < 1312255193 537734 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312255193 739937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: frame rate =/= tick rate < 1312255208 529180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: unless you like the world running at different speeds on different computers? < 1312255237 37291 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :delta is the number of seconds since the last whatever, i think?? why did i convert to seconds??? i don't know???? < 1312255243 347599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: uh I mean theta < 1312255246 109073 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312255247 91222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many times does theta increase per seconds < 1312255250 279271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :per second < 1312255256 291255 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1312255256 494331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312255258 858983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ten times per second? < 1312255261 941737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : modifyIORef theta (+ (delta * 10)) < 1312255272 491107 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of times it increases per second is machine-dependant < 1312255272 917103 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1312255278 256701 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amount it increases per second < 1312255281 508819 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 10 i think < 1312255287 994037 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope < 1312255303 935849 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably < 1312255304 272620 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1312255307 300150 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :screwed it up somewhere < 1312255309 400580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1312255320 824528 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ages ago) < 1312255354 743307 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh why are all these things iorefs stop being iorefs < 1312255362 200995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t whileM < 1312255363 49923 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `whileM' < 1312255365 712309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im making them MVars, < 1312255370 707386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVars are nice, they are, concurrency-friendly < 1312255372 790022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle whileM < 1312255373 266650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1312255379 382641 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats' whileM < 1312255383 17203 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot be true < 1312255384 606935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh whileM is not a stock thing < 1312255396 139258 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVar sounds nice..is TVar the STM thing..is it nice too.. < 1312255443 657211 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle IfElse < 1312255443 898721 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1312255482 860771 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is whileM like..... forever.... but guarded by a when < 1312255484 976209 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1312255486 620495 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :different < 1312255488 722129 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1312255491 346655 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not when < 1312255491 786717 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1312255494 236726 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1312255499 757255 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something more like whenM?? < 1312255546 854450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : start <- SDL.getTicks < 1312255547 95109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SDL.delay (ticksPerSecond * millisecondsPerSecond) < 1312255547 297336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : end <- SDL.getTicks < 1312255547 297578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : forM_ [0 .. (end - start) `div` ticksPerSecond] $ < 1312255547 297687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im good practices,,,,, < 1312255562 693990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the only gamestate you have is the ticks increasing isn't it < 1312255563 197604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312255571 613749 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312255584 948300 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was not a real game it was a < 1312255585 398059 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1312255590 843400 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what it was < 1312255591 660185 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1312255608 632564 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was like a hello world < 1312255623 770055 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to get me started with opengl so i could make something decent out of it < 1312255749 535352 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1312255755 275482 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a badloop and iorefs < 1312255758 83185 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of hello world < 1312255885 499445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type `GHC.ForeignPtr.ForeignPtr SDL.SurfaceStruct' < 1312255885 701481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: IO () < 1312255885 701656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actual type: IO SDL.Surface < 1312255891 221094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: SDL, leaked my things, i did not, want to know :( < 1312255907 790934 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that :( :( :( :( (: < 1312255914 714493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL.Surface's real identity :( < 1312255919 181457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also il like the smile at the end < 1312256049 796781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i dont like how some of the mVar functions want me to use IO too :( < 1312256059 564253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe monad stacks, are bad, < 1312256066 646289 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monad stacks...:( < 1312256122 669898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle mask < 1312256123 96433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1312256128 209750 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mask? < 1312256130 493882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but, i thought you disliked glfw, because callabcks in io, < 1312256143 824779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mask :: ((forall a. IO a -> IO a) -> IO b) -> IO b < 1312256144 534251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312256145 150127 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :callbacks in io are gross too :( < 1312256155 29609 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does mask do < 1312256165 514838 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312256173 14589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : callbacks in io are gross too :( < 1312256174 887762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats not gross < 1312256182 654012 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hgel p i i dopnt knwo :_; < 1312256183 81826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the true question :( < 1312256196 312203 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if < 1312256198 672680 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(magic here) < 1312256223 370915 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why not being gross .... maybe needs a new language?? < 1312256236 453141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its probably frp :P < 1312256251 66288 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probalby < 1312256270 687321 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe banana is good < 1312256293 120534 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never tried any of them because i was too busy freaking over not knowign which to use < 1312256294 536058 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is i said! < 1312256331 564070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet...conal doesnt like banan < 1312256354 421619 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1312256389 30342 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1312256404 394428 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am looking at this list and iwll a comment on each of them < 1312256412 430656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conal, wouldnt like any of them, :( < 1312256416 691166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he would say, they are, not the true path, < 1312256448 590088 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did conal not have a hand in making a few of them < 1312256461 135344 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did he hate that too < 1312256494 282960 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :conal elliott fruit < 1312256498 861085 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google it < 1312256514 91785 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's all over FRP, it seems < 1312256528 734825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: i know < 1312256529 302599 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't everyone knew that < 1312256531 929791 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, fruit leather, apparently < 1312256539 271634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on his blog, he is all, < 1312256542 419562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oops, it is all the wrong path," < 1312256544 710022 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet you didn't know *that* < 1312256545 513787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then eh is like < 1312256552 343895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey luke palmer,,, what u r doing is good" and i am like < 1312256556 849200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we dont have that compiler yet................ < 1312256558 496418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312256585 698442 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312256596 651892 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(: < 1312256604 16881 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn that frown upside down < 1312256612 309284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: now, it has, < 1312256613 265583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blackness, < 1312256619 410546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312256625 254869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i think it is painting once ever y second < 1312256625 538390 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : blac kense < 1312256629 447088 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops? < 1312256630 589403 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :??>? < 1312256632 458997 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1312256640 336232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SDL.delay (ticksPerSecond * millisecondsPerSecond) < 1312256641 330308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, < 1312256692 692633 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Don't you mean "turn that frown 180 degrees, or mirror it horizontally"? < 1312256718 507840 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( upside-down is, y'know, :(. < 1312256725 560769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh my god yuou have to see what i have created < 1312256728 579148 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately. < 1312256729 447424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hilarious < 1312256737 371866 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i want/need to see it < 1312256747 861532 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where is it < 1312256757 554435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 elliott elliott 14M 2011-08-02 04:44 help < 1312256760 525608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i get this to you......... < 1312256764 968500 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mirror it horizontally, it's still a frown < 1312256767 281872 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :source fiels??? < 1312256772 514339 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I really mean is "transpose that frown" < 1312256774 408738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but then you could, figure out, the hilarity,... < 1312256782 236376 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( -> (: < 1312256782 438390 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will not look,,,untill i see < 1312256794 441543 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a...conandrum? < 1312256806 278045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, < 1312257008 862345 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :og hod whats hapenming < 1312257013 530231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: love, < 1312257031 346407 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is going faster than my head can understand it < 1312257035 858948 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transposition sounds hella painful on your face. < 1312257044 868991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its not going fast < 1312257046 958412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its actually going too slow < 1312257051 275784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its painting the screen really slowly < 1312257052 105373 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312257055 760887 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1312257056 849262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1312257058 430686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ten times a second only < 1312257061 805862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1312257064 806281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's really jerky < 1312257072 939097 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Morphine heals all wounds < 1312257122 501536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wtf < 1312257143 538767 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it segfaulted when i ^C it help < 1312257157 230036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok its going about 10000 ticks per second lmao < 1312257159 926193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm per real tick < 1312257161 763141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: um < 1312257162 479698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1312257181 185240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312257183 576271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the boxes just sit there... < 1312257258 697809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: soon, it will be rperfect < 1312257290 441520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1312257297 660723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's (ten ticks per second) in (milliseconds per tick) < 1312257301 305538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help, < 1312257316 31614 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@infa.abo.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 < 1312257324 903871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you, < 1312257418 121709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok it is, a bit better, < 1312257421 21971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am going to make it even better, < 1312257433 558515 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1312257456 199018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SDL_AddTimer -- Adds a timer which will call a callback after the specified number of milliseconds has elapsed. < 1312257456 728132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312257458 408563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdl has real timer things < 1312257464 534160 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they < 1312257465 11072 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1312257469 415434 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are all things I could've told you. :P < 1312257474 66130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one way to fihgtn out < 1312257477 693657 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they work fine. < 1312257483 866377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are they in the haskell bindgfindignins...... < 1312257488 879276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do they force using io < 1312257491 164800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my bett: yes) < 1312257503 34146 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I quit using them for the most part when I switched to variable-frame-rate games. < 1312257512 346271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The timer callback function may run in a different thread than your main program, and so shouldn't call any functions from within itself. However, you may always call SDL_PushEvent. < 1312257513 300637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1312257524 165525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: as i said, frame rate =/= tick rate < 1312257537 740760 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, that's why I said "for the most part". < 1312257590 986835 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't often have a world that needs stuff that updates every so many milliseconds. < 1312257614 276657 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to construct things from in-world objects that all run in the same timeline. < 1312257623 911292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i have, a plan, < 1312257654 173528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: so how would you handle, say, a crate dropping downwards at a rate of one metre per second < 1312257701 560465 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seconds are slow on my computr...e < 1312257710 850481 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or metres are biger < 1312257715 965618 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drop the crate each frame by an amount proportional to the current actual framerate. < 1312257720 630878 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or smaler < 1312257721 510377 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1312257723 8267 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soemthinger < 1312257751 286822 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because chances are the current frame is going to take about as long as the previous one, and if it doesn't, oh well. < 1312257767 123476 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The effects of local time discontinuities aren't my concern. < 1312257777 909351 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the rendering is smooth and predictable-ish. < 1312257806 148741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and if it doesn't, oh well" < 1312257819 719647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, so on slow computers, your game's physics break < 1312257821 860609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1312257823 911690 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1312257829 826573 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just can't predict the future. < 1312257832 893657 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all. < 1312257839 250501 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you shouldn't try. < 1312257845 459005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312257852 269474 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what;e < 1312257852 981148 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY DETERMINISM < 1312257913 566651 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time begins. First frame is rendered. Time has elapsed. Next frame is rendered based on elapsed time. < 1312257928 641734 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I'm saying. < 1312257939 101129 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically what i did for my dumb boxes hello world i think?? < 1312257960 782613 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most recently rendered frame always expresses the correct view of the instant in time it began rendering. < 1312257993 250824 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the frames are only predictably far apart insofar as the objects in the world behave more or less the same each frame. < 1312258036 869680 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So introducing many objects might drop my simulation from 110 to 100, but it's still well above the target threshold. < 1312258172 442366 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im thinking im liking the fixed tickrate with variable framerate thing thouhg it sounds nice < 1312258182 890601 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was < 1312258196 960009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I want is an SDL_Delay that breaks when an event happens < 1312258202 21287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does such a thing exist < 1312258212 187520 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhhh < 1312258215 492448 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;ve no clue < 1312258218 273243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i geuss i could use threads < 1312258234 338209 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I Remember hating about handling events and stuff is < 1312258236 926801 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :handling events and stuff < 1312258255 191891 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the speciifcs < 1312258284 685595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yay this is working-ish now < 1312258295 304066 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooho < 1312258304 501850 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the -ish mean is it bad < 1312258329 300404 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine frp would hekp with the evcent handline nightmares < 1312258332 88147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's really jerky and still uses all the cpu < 1312258339 475716 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No such thing exists exactly in SDL. < 1312258348 146690 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(: :(* :(* :( < 1312258479 248775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: user error (RTS doesn't support multiple OS threads (use ghc -threaded when linking)) < 1312258481 60222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: im dum < 1312258482 55421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1312258483 112944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean monqy < 1312258491 194359 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1312258510 822259 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that < 1312258511 455749 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix it < 1312258512 274192 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1312258657 547502 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION climbs up the event handline < 1312258724 764203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it is, getting good, < 1312258734 591046 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.....sssss < 1312258795 448657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but, there is bad things, with your modules, < 1312258799 125485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think, maybe, < 1312258801 763111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, probably not < 1312258803 392220 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse. < 1312258804 619956 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1312258808 732360 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse?? < 1312258846 462584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1312258847 884284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :resizing < 1312258849 20840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :segfaults it?? < 1312258859 399733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think what happens is < 1312258860 967172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1312258864 536729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the resizing handling happens < 1312258867 120164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the stuff is drawing... < 1312259116 552772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: anyway, I don't see how you can do a decent framerateless game without either using all the CPU or blocking all events < 1312259140 189985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eating all the CPU because you're effectively busylooping, or blocking all events because you're sleeping to keep a maximum framerate < 1312259328 16683 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just throw a minimal SDL_Delay in the otherwise busy loop so the game can switch out. You do get an artificially imposed maximum frame rate, but you also don't use all of the CPU. < 1312259350 387840 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And said maximum rate is still rather high. < 1312259424 603501 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has more graceful degradation than a fixed frame rate, at least. < 1312259477 74152 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With frame dropping, you jump in whole fractions of your frame rate. < 1312259499 237602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so events are only processed at your constant frame rate. < 1312259514 513616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you handle events in another thread < 1312259611 580594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ti still segfaults :( < 1312259616 854662 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312259626 461566 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mange to segfault...haske.L?? < 1312259631 106568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with opengl < 1312259636 109712 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<:I < 1312259641 737633 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : did you < 1312259643 171453 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poke < 1312259644 372738 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :peointers < 1312259645 735106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312259650 66549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: should i, port this, to gpipe, < 1312259662 133853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that is < 1312259663 753857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultimat esolution < 1312259664 88383 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is gpipe,,,,,,,,owrking-good??? < 1312259668 634971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is < 1312259673 893364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one way to find out,,,,,,,,, < 1312259698 749896 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an good idea???/ < 1312259715 109722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im will maybe make this less ugly first though... < 1312259722 456016 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312259911 741509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: with < 1312259912 167958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY < 1312259912 883466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAGIC < 1312259943 158053 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did You DO < 1312259971 576417 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you bananana it .... < 1312260006 198322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, < 1312260096 481073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: apart from the segufalts inthis is better... < 1312260115 667715 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a good < 1312260147 960417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, gpipe is a bit old < 1312260151 127168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :last updated september < 1312260391 685903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what if... I gave you this current code, and in the process of fixing it, turned it into my game instead, rather than fixing yours....... < 1312260392 920703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be bad < 1312260438 919617 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fine i'll just pry out the stuff i want < 1312260457 707852 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like i need the spinny boxes < 1312260472 659863 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a starting point from which to make amazing < 1312260523 576373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh,,, but,,, my game's source code is not released,,,,, until it is completely done < 1312260547 152112 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.., < 1312260554 171573 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about < 1312260557 331436 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jus t part of it < 1312260566 704393 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how long will it take to < 1312260567 271528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,maybe < 1312260569 156522 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely done < 1312260572 778063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a long time < 1312260620 233147 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;----; < 1312260631 38854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Anyway, another problem with your approach is that you effectively do have a fixed tick rate: the precision of your OS timer. < 1312260651 743334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you're afraid of floats like right-thinking people, you have to pick a fixed tick rate. < 1312260690 832890 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :floats scare me dead < 1312260751 821436 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Alright, so it's fixed-ish. My current game varies by about 30fps, broadly, depending on load. < 1312260770 27895 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that it does so without my intervention or imposition of a specific upper bound. < 1312260792 504215 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it does it more gracefully than dropping frames. < 1312260797 211483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: No, but the specific bound is right there, it's just hidden. < 1312260802 99267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's proposing frame-dropping. :p < 1312260842 559013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that a few sleep calls let you use an int for the ticks rather than an ugly float, provides greater consistency, and reduces CPU usage immensely. < 1312260895 343207 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sleeping. It doesn't bog the CPU. And if I really cared about avoiding floats, I'd use a fix. < 1312260906 832877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're sleeping, then you have a fixed tick rate. < 1312260946 168496 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately. Maximum. < 1312260990 860928 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleeping alone isn't the way to handle frame timing. < 1312260998 448706 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're not saying that. < 1312261050 357255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not. < 1312261059 550069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : start <- SDL.getTicks < 1312261059 751961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SDL.delay (millisecondsPerSecond `div` ticksPerSecond) < 1312261059 752160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : end <- SDL.getTicks < 1312261059 752268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return $ (end - start) `div` (millisecondsPerSecond `div` ticksPerSecond) < 1312261063 320235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the obvious way to do it. < 1312261069 845022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(getTicks returns in milliseconds.) < 1312261310 487501 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doesn't have a wait function in it's standard library? < 1312261329 121394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1312261334 742734 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Int -> IO () < 1312261335 26753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Concurrent threadDelay :: Int -> IO () < 1312261335 228189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Console.Editline.Readline setCompletionQueryItems :: Int -> IO () < 1312261335 228370 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Console.Editline.Readline setEnd :: Int -> IO () < 1312261336 739411 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312261337 23376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm using SDL's because, I don't know, it must be better. < 1312261369 546720 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have particularly good guarantees. < 1312261383 286024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's why I use it resiliently. < 1312261391 545891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to have good guarantees with traditional OSes. < 1312261395 290081 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :10ms is the best it promises for minimum delay, but in practice it varies a lot platformwise. < 1312261421 839377 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 10ms is also the minimum resolution it promises. < 1312261432 768729 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1000/60 < 1312261433 194735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16.666666666666668 < 1312261455 159332 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wonder why 60 FPS is so hard to maintain without feedback... < 1312261489 335193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: That's still enough for more thanenough fps. < 1312261491 791831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]than enough < 1312261562 932356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it sads me that gpipe depends on glut :( < 1312261602 885377 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sads me too:(((( < 1312261631 602658 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I had to put a timing loop on the wait command for it to be reliable < 1312261634 124085 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what gpipe does..internally...if it would be a good idea to use that as a starting point...formaking something.. better < 1312261660 713341 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/put a timing loop on/add timing code to/ < 1312261661 851296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it just does opengl :P < 1312261665 173214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but there's a lot of code < 1312261670 140835 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but in what manner < 1312261677 69837 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL can sync FPS for you? < 1312261708 831083 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Int -> IO Int < 1312261709 70734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Console.Editline.Readline complete :: Int -> Char -> IO Int < 1312261709 70879 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception evaluate :: a -> IO a < 1312261709 70924 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException evaluate :: a -> IO a < 1312261724 450644 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange that there's no wait command that returns the actual time waited. < 1312261759 121331 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a / b = a `div` b < 1312261759 832117 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312261789 871098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what do you mean < 1312261805 259282 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how would you write a sync loop with OpenGL? < 1312261887 362590 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i mean if gpipe screws some things up maybe a modified gpipe with better things would be better??? or would it be better to start with opengl?? < 1312261916 424238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: ? < 1312261925 296852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i dont like, forking things, because always worse than rewriting, < 1312261938 850413 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312262015 298362 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All of my well-intentioned branch-rewrites turn into "fuck this, I'll do it from scratch". < 1312262116 697925 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> b < 1312262116 901130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1312262116 901301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ($) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1312262117 102706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ($!) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1312262137 653341 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t undefined < 1312262138 428565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1312262157 263688 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \x -> undefined < 1312262157 689572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a. t -> a < 1312262190 192503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im going to backup this code as-is, port it to GPipe, then maybe see about reactive-banana???? < 1312262190 397275 :jimtendo!~jimtendo@c220-237-111-49.fernt3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312262191 762540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ugh glut < 1312262194 977344 :jimtendo_!~jimtendo@c220-237-111-49.fernt3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312262217 998839 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any way to remove glut from gpope < 1312262222 218885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes by modifying it < 1312262366 287382 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (,,) 1 < 1312262366 858475 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t b c. (Num t) => b -> c -> (t, b, c) < 1312262383 188309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: lol.... i commented on the initial gpipe submission a year ago < 1312262393 16733 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1312262394 964111 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did??? < 1312262396 918446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i...forgot.... < 1312262400 408080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes.......... http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9qrl5/gpipe_a_functional_graphics_api_for_programmable/c0e0vmo?context=1 < 1312262401 543748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION famous < 1312262405 214972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :got an whole two points < 1312262406 209880 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it a good comment a wise comment < 1312262410 544758 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to get any arbitrary Num from "1"? < 1312262422 525576 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t 1 < 1312262422 810928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it was an anti-bonch comment so yes... < 1312262423 13313 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t) => t < 1312262425 162452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: What? < 1312262432 140144 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : :t (,,) 1 < 1312262432 341731 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : forall t b c. (Num t) => b -> c -> (t, b, c) < 1312262435 935415 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's bonch he looks like an awful person < 1312262439 222387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is < 1312262443 561666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's an anti-haskell spammer < 1312262454 489373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also just a generally awful person < 1312262457 91704 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hwo can people b.e.... anti-haskelle < 1312262461 33755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :full of hatred and death < 1312262471 796561 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "Derp malloc is fast" < 1312262481 732305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read shis user page < 1312262484 44602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now he is anti-idra < 1312262484 754810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is < 1312262486 700793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some starcraft playe < 1312262487 127550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1312262507 498280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because the number of people using something determines its quality. Also, Britney Spears is a superior artist to Mozart because more people are listening to her songs than Mozart concerts." --bonch < 1312262509 3870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell is a niche language nobody uses but a small cabal of Reddit users." --bonch < 1312262524 998933 :jimtendo_!~jimtendo@c220-237-111-49.fernt3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312262551 433984 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore PHP > Haskell? < 1312262641 76135 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-222-158-169.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: Presumably! < 1312262642 72173 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1312262647 155371 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore "hey id like to make thsi computer thing" > Haskell. < 1312262708 224741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first parameter is the primitive type (currently Triangle, Line or Point)" < 1312262713 192727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: canat use quads :( < 1312262727 47854 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about trianglestrips < 1312262743 540565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is that.... < 1312262750 771624 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my amazing secret project only needs trianglestrips < 1312262758 126480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait hmmmm < 1312262761 9830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is it TriangleCraft < 1312262798 388889 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to describe < 1312262844 11457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: there is also, LineStrip, LineList, TriangleList, TriangleFan < 1312262847 228374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also describe it :{ < 1312262887 913536 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :special-purpose graphics libary for my purposes only which draws everything in a special way using trainglestrips < 1312262909 534515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what about TriangleFans....... my test code uses TriangleFans because fast?? < 1312262924 550665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and i will assume it's a minecraft clone until proven otherwise :P < 1312262973 733616 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) maybe i actually want trianglefans I should actually do some reasearching on what these things do < 1312262989 95571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: with trianglefans you can draw a cube with only like < 1312262997 407145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let f v = [v,(0,0,0.51),(0,0.51,0.51),(0,0.51,0),(0.51,0.51,0),(0.51,0,0),(0.51,0,1),(0,0,0.51)] < 1312262999 140344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : let xs = f (0,0,0) ++ f (0.51,0.51,0.51) :: [(GL.GLfloat,GL.GLfloat,GL.GLfloat)] < 1312263002 134181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many elements................. < 1312263005 470933 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) it is for me making things involving graphics and it might end up 2d only and it would probably be totally inappropriate for minecraft clones < 1312263014 244386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A triangle fan is a primitive in 3D computer graphics that saves on storage and processing time. It describes a set of connected triangles that share one central vertex (unlike the triangle strip that connects the next vertex point to the last two used vertices to form a triangle). < 1312263028 600475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: if you're just doing two dimensional i'd use sdl and save all the hassle < 1312263049 90102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: looks like triangle strips are the fastest thing < 1312263063 30373 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does sdl do trianglestirps < 1312263076 444096 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not good at this < 1312263135 860612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no.................but you could code them < 1312263138 864826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdl just does blitting basically :P < 1312263150 981502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cube is defined in model-space, i.e where positions and normals are relative the cube. We now want to rotate that cube using a variable angle and project the whole thing with a perspective projection, as it is seen through a camera 2 units down the z-axis. < 1312263155 438720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help gpipe tutorial is hurting me hlep < 1312263184 227968 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pass vertex data designed for GL_QUAD_STRIP to a GL_TRIANGLE_STRIP, it'll draw it just fine, IIRC the vertex ordering works like that. The hardwares only draw triangles anyway. < 1312263304 722549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :translate :: (Transpose m mt, Reverse' () mt (v' :. t), Reverse' (v' :. ()) t v'1, Transpose v'1 m, Num v', Num a, Snoc v a v') => v -> m -> m < 1312263305 858964 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% of bonch is apparently bitching about the lack of Starcraft content in /r/starcraft < 1312263308 816493 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How cute < 1312263309 391670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312263338 362817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help help help < 1312263370 899623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312263375 860585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;__; < 1312263399 620252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this is compmpalitcated < 1312263416 628114 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I would suppose a triangle fan is the fastest primitive when your faces happen to be in a fanlike configuration.) < 1312263505 486888 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help how to help help < 1312263518 479928 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's even hgapp[ening haelp < 1312263628 478692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Context reduction stack overflow; size = 21 < 1312263628 680643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -fcontext-stack=N to increase stack size to N < 1312263630 210981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312263635 85820 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhwats that < 1312263636 382368 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helwp < 1312263712 277949 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also would it be reasonably efficient to base my whatever on whatever sdl does to do triangles if that would be simpler < 1312263727 914124 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i guess i could use quads if that would be simpler?? < 1312263753 730595 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't you need two triangle fans to draw an cube? < 1312263833 40714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i dont know < 1312263838 831945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: sdl doesnt do anything to do triangles < 1312263845 209612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you literally blit arrays of pixels to the screen that' sit < 1312263848 522702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally software-based < 1312263860 917661 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312263886 391866 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you draw two parallel surfaces with a triangle fan? You'd need two corner shaped ones, right? < 1312263892 828221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im doing sauqraes < 1312263893 348268 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can use its window-handling functions in conjunction with OpenGL < 1312263906 913633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transform angle (width:.height:.()) (pos, norm, uv) = (transformedPos, (transformedNorm, uv)) < 1312263907 115869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> where < 1312263907 116052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> modelMat = rotationVec (normalize (1:.0.5:.0.3:.())) angle `multmm` translation (-0.5) < 1312263907 116161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> viewMat = translation (-(0:.0:.2:.())) < 1312263907 116266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> projMat = perspective 1 100 (pi/3) (fromIntegral width / fromIntegral height) < 1312263907 481727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> viewProjMat = projMat `multmm` viewMat < 1312263907 885577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312263908 170075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312263908 372194 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312263908 372375 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312263908 372486 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312263909 536066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transformedPos = toGPU (viewProjMat `multmm` modelMat) `multmv` (homPoint pos :: Vec4 (Vertex Float)) < 1312263909 821739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `where' < 1312263911 729146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312263912 579230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> transformedNorm = toGPU (Vec.map (Vec.take n3) $ Vec.take n3 $ modelMat) `multmv` norm < 1312263913 706058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312263914 416235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp monqy < 1312263916 392752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: duh < 1312263918 385777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god lambdabot < 1312263919 497424 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpe < 1312263927 315605 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312263966 724280 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: thats gpipe? whats it doing < 1312263975 837725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i dont know........ < 1312263979 228670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :transforming a cube < 1312263983 527892 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that type definition scares me. < 1312263984 112904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT NOT IN A SIMPLE WAY < 1312263991 570743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: there's no type definition there. < 1312263997 875850 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the one you posted. < 1312264003 335443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312264004 46625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1312264006 36749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312264008 539893 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hellish monad stack? < 1312264011 421742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312264016 146179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : translate :: (Transpose m mt, Reverse' () mt (v' :. t), Reverse' (v' :. ()) t v'1, Transpose v'1 m, Num v', Num a, Snoc v a v') => v -> m -> m < 1312264018 916832 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it considered good practice to leave out type definitions when they get like that? < 1312264020 832831 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312264098 434076 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: The first vertex is shared among all triangles of the triangle fan, so you definitely can't draw a cube with a single fan; it can't draw any of the faces that don't touch the corner you start from. Drawing a cube with two starting from opposite corners sounds possible, though. < 1312264129 540691 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawing a cube with a triangle strip is easier < 1312264143 874485 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: I would think it would be *worse* practice to leave them out if they got like that < 1312264167 701097 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? One strip to go "around" the cube, and then the top and bottom separately? < 1312264177 112059 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312264182 490856 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :one strip period < 1312264197 972071 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdl-gfx has trangles maybe i think. would it maybe help me maybe < 1312264203 392759 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :some vertices have to be repeated either way < 1312264276 386950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is it considered good practice to leave out type definitions when they get like that? < 1312264281 256966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably won't even be inferred with that < 1312264290 9747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, no, it'd be worse < 1312264294 209441 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, maybe it can't be done with one strip. maybe it still needs two. < 1312264325 281288 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried < 1312264421 563445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:24: < 1312264421 803174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match type `CPU m0' < 1312264422 5662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : with `(Float :. (Float :. (Float :. (Float :. ())))) < 1312264422 5871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :. ((Float :. (Float :. (Float :. (Float :. ())))) < 1312264422 5984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :. ((Float :. (Float :. (Float :. (Float :. ())))) < 1312264422 416813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :. ((Float :. (Float :. (Float :. (Float :. ())))) :. ())))' < 1312264424 233280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312264440 192825 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are some wonderful types you have there. < 1312264445 460729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: its Vecs fault < 1312264453 304677 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :......................................... < 1312264465 830257 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a joke right < 1312264489 18679 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::. = two tuple? < 1312264509 846798 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Float :. (Float :. (Float :. (Float :. ())))) = four tuple? < 1312264542 966838 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't that ((Float,Float,Float,Float),(Float,Float,Float,Float),(Float,Float,Float,Float),(Float,Float,Float,Float)), or something similar with an alias for (Float,Float,Float,Float) defined? < 1312264546 819914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its Mat44 ghc just sucks at types < 1312264550 623881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because vectors are more general < 1312264669 538387 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can map over them and everything. < 1312264719 627267 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe you could steal a page from C++'s book, and implement a STLFilt-like tool ("VecFilt"?) to shorten those error messages. < 1312264735 253776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1312264752 731837 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how would you map over a structure (a :. b) < 1312264777 550566 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, check if one of them is a list? < 1312264780 795320 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Haskell let you do that? < 1312264803 302331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1312264803 952028 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/Vec/0.9.8/doc/html/Data-Vec-Base.html#t:Map < 1312264832 564299 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: What, you mean like ([a] :. b)? Well, you'd define a function on ([a] :. b)... < 1312264871 594395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im cry < 1312264892 708161 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ;_+; < 1312264898 2169 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whats hapen < 1312265110 747187 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312265111 300816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: gpipe types, are hard, < 1312265140 592110 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312265196 537307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but i am, persevering < 1312265205 502248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would be totally cool if all of my game could be purely-functional < 1312265254 591976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ive got this from the article < 1312265257 335741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :transform :: Float -> Vec2 Int -> (Vec3 (Vertex Float), (Vec3 (Vertex Float),c)) -> (Vec4 (Vertex Float), (Vec3 (Vertex Float), c)) < 1312265259 244931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to make it proper... < 1312265281 635291 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1312265292 293745 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1312265411 262422 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312265787 362070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdpogidgjofkhljdpoghklm < 1312265794 125987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this is complicated :( < 1312265808 126049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in this tutorial... < 1312265811 744237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're doing cubes like < 1312265816 344580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PrimitiveStream Triangle (Vec3 (Vertex Float), Vec3 (Vertex Float), Vec2 (Vertex Float)) < 1312265819 366336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :positions, normals and uv-coordinates < 1312265827 698822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im just like.................. how do i draw a square < 1312265866 408761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at gpipe-examples insetad < 1312265869 923338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : triangle :: PrimitiveStream Triangle (Vec3 (Vertex Float)) < 1312265870 207598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : triangle = toGPUStream TriangleList $ < 1312265870 410148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ (-0.8):.0.8:.0.0:.(), < 1312265870 410302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.8:.0.8:.0.0:.(), < 1312265870 410403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0:.(-0.8):.0.0:.() ] < 1312265871 813192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more like it... < 1312265940 128834 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snazzey < 1312265970 897430 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I must admit I don't like invisible boundries < 1312265977 413133 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :between triangles in trianglelists, in this case < 1312265992 963739 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, unless trianglelists are different than how im thinking < 1312266000 240502 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they more like strips < 1312266012 378943 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case i guess it would make sense to just have a big list of points < 1312266258 87555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: donot worry..... soon i will have your entire game working with reactive-banana and GPipe........ < 1312266281 841212 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im hapey < 1312266319 24710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: can i have a five < 1312266329 580552 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1312266334 158347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1312266378 450808 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-55.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1312266456 407232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it segfault :( < 1312266460 683788 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312267048 808869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it no segfault < 1312267051 304138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im having troubles < 1312267052 728385 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::') < 1312267053 297719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i will prevail < 1312267055 775594 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312267057 985630 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::') < 1312267060 279175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably make the resulting program like 900 times larger and slower < 1312267061 356317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but OH WELL < 1312267065 953902 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312267158 223670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im sorry for emotional rollercoaster < 1312267171 283228 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its okay i like roalercoasters < 1312267221 882285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :square :: PrimitiveStream Triangle (Vec3 (Vertex Float)) < 1312267222 84221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :square = toGPUStream TriangleFan $ [vt 1 1, vt 1 (-1), vt (-1) (-1), vt (-1) 1] < 1312267222 84419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where vt a b = a :. b :. 0 :. () < 1312267232 701803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You told me I could just pass quads data to a trianglefan expecter. < 1312267234 834646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you were WRONG < 1312267244 19124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait. < 1312267246 732659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you say TriangleStrip < 1312267281 447306 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TriangleStrip, yes. < 1312267288 105231 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's QuadStrip data, that is. < 1312267293 30992 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not separate quads, obvsly. < 1312267328 392964 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you may want to check the vertex order. But I think it went the right way around. < 1312267358 557084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but it was separate quads.... < 1312267363 826487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But all I want to draw is a square. < 1312267367 557433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUERLY IT CANT BE SO HARD < 1312267391 274305 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a single square, you can just give the four points into a single TriangleFan. < 1312267408 7431 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312267413 526027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that actually works. < 1312267431 309864 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what would be the optimal way to draw a large amount of non-connected quads though. Maybe a TriangleList and manually doing each quad as two triangles. < 1312267437 715347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except... wait what... hmm. < 1312267804 798495 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GL_TRIANGLE_FAN's vertices are (1, n+1, n+2) while GL_TRIANGLE_STRIP's are (n, n+1, n+2) for odd n, (n+1, n, n+2) for even; so if you pass four vertices, that's (1, 2, 3)+(1,3,4) for the fan, (1,2,3)+(3,2,4) for the strip. Both could be used to draw a square, you'd just have to pass the corners in a different order. < 1312268384 538936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ugh. Hipster activists are so annoying. I bet you ride a fixed speed bike and eat granola bars for breakfast." --bonch on saving the lions < 1312268488 910917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: when you passed width=fifty to square stuff < 1312268492 770540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was width in pixels right?? < 1312268510 757130 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1312268513 365099 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno maybe < 1312268519 638750 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1312268520 923873 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that uh < 1312268526 437240 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was half the width in pixels, if anything < 1312268542 675591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh rigth < 1312268544 818140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but it's like... < 1312268549 302435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i have something that takes a float as the width and.... < 1312269078 862838 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1312269124 621286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and what do i.... do.. < 1312269127 912038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it pixel again < 1312269143 454289 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what haepend what bborke ;_; < 1312269151 649449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: oh rigth < 1312269151 851222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: but it's like... < 1312269151 851443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : now i have something that takes a float as the width and.... < 1312269155 203420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its turned into something that takes like < 1312269160 388046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a float where one = full screen width/height < 1312269204 844876 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :floats < 1312269208 837139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312269209 404521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1312269213 466191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to turn it into something taking pixels again < 1312269214 461404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help? < 1312269218 60007 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312269223 378130 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never used gpipe help < 1312269228 762756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its not gpipe its just < 1312269229 792777 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is flaots how gpipe workse < 1312269231 500060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things < 1312269231 500237 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312269235 397307 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this things < 1312269246 534515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things < 1312269251 776516 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :things < 1312269270 710517 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you manage to make it only work in terms of total screen size < 1312269278 158931 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this happen < 1312269296 658539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats jsut how it works :( < 1312269305 924385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: whats preservingMatrix < 1312269310 48183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :again?? < 1312269340 580006 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically isolates matrix transformations < 1312269346 14440 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :contains them < 1312269347 233090 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's real nice < 1312269356 479811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what does that mean, < 1312269376 248746 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312269411 105298 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it duplicates the top of the matrix stack (the current matrix) and pushes it onto the matrix stack (new current matrix) and then does the provided action (its argument) and then pops the matrix (so all transformations to that matrix don't affect following actions) < 1312269423 656395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what < 1312269425 103316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312269431 285241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is that how your squares appear like < 1312269432 141992 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not like you're mucking around with global state < 1312269432 570627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixelwise < 1312269435 847709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than screen percentage wise < 1312269436 356200 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1312269437 120054 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312269438 954586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1312269439 346027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1312269439 773373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1312269440 399921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312269442 809918 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how I turn and transform them < 1312269443 236897 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1312269444 327599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive never had pixelwise in my opengl programs < 1312269446 15307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1312269448 392364 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312269448 962007 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1312269450 242223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312269470 35105 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my magic is in the stuff i put at the beginning in the initialization < 1312269473 48409 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stuff that made the view < 1312269477 817231 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ortho2d stuff < 1312269478 102233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that < 1312269480 101339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312269480 972537 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1312269481 531811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right.... < 1312269484 587315 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you still have it < 1312269514 724649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.viewport $= (GL.Position 0 0, size) < 1312269514 926867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.matrixMode $= GL.Projection < 1312269514 927072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.loadIdentity < 1312269514 927184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.ortho2D 0 (realToFrac w) (realToFrac h) 0 < 1312269514 927292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.translate $ GL.Vector3 (realToFrac w / 2) (realToFrac h / 2) (0 :: GL.GLdouble) < 1312269519 833830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand what it is doing :( < 1312269550 302101 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1312269553 953644 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i copied most of it from a thing < 1312269561 300605 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think i understand it < 1312269632 236803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what does orthotwodee mean < 1312269665 438898 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ortho3D with the near and far clipping planes at -1 and 1. < 1312269679 506932 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok first it creates the viewport with width and height specified by size, and the lower-left corner being (0, 0), then it sets the current matrix on which it operates to the projection matrix, initializes it to the identity matrix, sets up a projection matrix there spanning from 0-width and height-0, and then translates to centre it < 1312269686 226776 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is < 1312269687 665729 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my analysis < 1312269690 829558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... but what does that do that's not default < 1312269691 256670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1312269692 396153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do < 1312269693 725667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get < 1312269695 824722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do none of that < 1312269697 535843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1312269701 204159 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1312269707 34308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312269709 176333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe fizzie knows < 1312269718 512824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default projection matrix is the identity matrix. < 1312269722 453762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312269728 683655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day i will be expert :( < 1312269735 246795 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a glOrtho from -1 to 1. < 1312269742 42005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh SO < 1312269743 25119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the reason < 1312269749 911638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that (-one,one) like fills my screen < 1312269750 815225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1312269752 923920 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of -w/2 to w/2 like that. < 1312269754 56263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what the projection matrix is? < 1312269757 220715 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sounds likely. < 1312269762 813957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhhhhhhh now i understnand :D < 1312269765 415719 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i set it to identity because that's in a glfw windowresizecallback i think so the projectionmatrix will be mucked up and i'll have to reset it to identity < 1312269766 410950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is that like how i set FOV < 1312269773 326440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i have a hypothetical block world < 1312269783 708484 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well with a block world you want 3d stuff < 1312269791 522612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but i mean < 1312269793 177495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ortho stuff in general < 1312269801 612762 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that you'd want a perspective projection matrix. < 1312269807 793669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312269812 579327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would an orthographic thing do < 1312269813 736242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in threedee < 1312269814 975517 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those tend to take the FOV quite directly. < 1312269822 402688 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would do an isometric-style thing. < 1312269827 885339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDD omg < 1312269845 311830 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could muck with the matrix yourself?? < 1312269847 589103 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it go all wack < 1312269881 877382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the matrix of solidity as the projection matrix < 1312269892 507839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDD < 1312269955 758177 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey, haskell opengl bindings < 1312269973 507681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suck (thats why im (using gpipe :') )) < 1312269980 184522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they don't suck < 1312269982 252114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but opengl sucks in general < 1312269989 380732 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does gpipe do < 1312269990 945353 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1312269992 255846 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :about this stuff < 1312269996 880715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1312270013 957827 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :deal with opengl's matricies and stuff < 1312270018 242124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just < 1312270020 952666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :transforms them into functional matrices < 1312270022 964000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a bunch of like < 1312270024 256631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toGPU stuff < 1312270027 581125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which turns things into shaders < 1312270122 434644 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312270249 209590 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-167.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312270584 584726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312270613 55137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312270622 184868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ao um, < 1312270627 358258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asterisk so < 1312270634 655305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im going to, totally gpipe it up < 1312270639 602699 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1312270651 187244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r u, PREPARED, < 1312270672 986018 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :per haps < 1312271039 711812 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312271311 376757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't make video games. I am not involved with the video game industry. I do not want to talk to you about graphics, textures, engines, or anything of that sort." --John Carmack < 1312271418 846474 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312271544 565810 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312271579 884559 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312271645 363248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : orthoProj = toGPU $ orthogonal (-10) 10 (2:.2:.()) < 1312271652 575286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: monqy: this looks like the ortho to me... < 1312271657 336014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think??? < 1312272056 812142 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soubds likely, though I don't know about the values. Maybe width, height and then a Vec2 for the center and/or corner. < 1312272080 462397 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it has documentation. < 1312272122 999860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure though, since that's the projSquare function. < 1312272128 835006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it gets rasterised and drawn onto the frame. < 1312272134 60715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think orthogonals are a global thing. < 1312272159 80689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it seems like orthoProj is just multiplied with the ... homPoint of the vertex position thing. < 1312272165 259852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To form a four-dimensional vector. Umm. < 1312272174 243953 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so I finally got back to watching old doctor who... I like the vulcan neck pinch < 1312272202 51864 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe it's not using the fixed-function OpenGL pipeline, I think you can opt for that nowadays. < 1312272218 730052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: The Doctor: literally a Vulcan. < 1312272221 574887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: im not sure what this means,, < 1312272259 49262 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In old-style OGL you'd set the (global-state) projection matrix, which is then used to transform coords in the camera coordinate system to the screen's, by multiplying them. < 1312272286 267318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1312272289 370956 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suppose you can nowadays opt for doing all geometry with programmed shaders. < 1312272292 855015 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1312272368 952453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It does convert things to shaders automagically, yes. < 1312272379 447076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a little SPOOKY. < 1312272423 503713 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't learn shaders in my opengl class :( < 1312272427 490650 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sound cool though < 1312272438 194104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need an opengl class < 1312272446 362272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just, opengl not to exist < 1312272452 159350 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in vanalla open gl you have to specifiy shaders an a special langauge??? < 1312272459 373117 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crayze < 1312272459 884719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312272462 483121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its < 1312272465 548019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: they're written in like < 1312272468 255727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :opencl language < 1312272469 891031 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it good langauge < 1312272473 855095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based on C < 1312272480 657724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : __kernel void fft1D_1024 (__global float2 *in, __global float2 *out, < 1312272480 908237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : __local float *sMemx, __local float *sMemy) { < 1312272481 110130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int tid = get_local_id(0); < 1312272481 110310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int blockIdx = get_group_id(0) * 1024 + tid; < 1312272481 110418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : float2 data[16]; < 1312272481 312449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1312272482 967898 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this basing appropriate < 1312272483 207353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : // starting index of data to/from global memory < 1312272485 126332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : in = in + blockIdx; out = out + blockIdx; < 1312272487 119177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1312272487 830069 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ewwww < 1312272491 254958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : globalLoads(data, in, 64); // coalesced global reads < 1312272493 338594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fftRadix16Pass(data); // in-place radix-16 pass < 1312272495 63672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : twiddleFactorMul(data, tid, 1024, 0); < 1312272496 992714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what it looks like................. < 1312272499 155102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no, because GPUs are even lower-level than C < 1312272501 297744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is too high-level < 1312272503 199953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see Checkout < 1312272505 442344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ... but with gpipe it like does your haskell all symbolic and compiles it to a shade < 1312272507 156908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1312272511 19402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :automagically < 1312272515 319323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout) < 1312272529 866565 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312272534 957063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god ais can't write < 1312272537 406735 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1312272542 539987 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :walls of text < 1312272546 133063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A different form of checkout/2 can move or (possibly readonly) copy between level 1 memory and level 3 memory. The semantics of this need a little explanation, as referring to level 1 memory from a level 2 command is mostly meaningless. What happens is that the command refers to one slab of level 3 memory, and one word of level 1 memory in each subunit, which comes to the same amount (as the size of a slab is that necessary for each level 1 subun < 1312272546 418439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it to get one word of it). The access is allowed to be misaligned. In fact, the slab of level 3 memory does not even need to be contiguous in an absolute sense; rather, it has to be contiguous in the segmented sense that if memory is divided into a set of power-of-2-sized blocks each of which wraps around, it's contiguous from the point of view of some block. (So, for instance, in a hypothetical system with 8 level 1 subunits per level 2 unit, [2 < 1312272549 413624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :7]/3 [28]/3 [29]/3 [30]/3 [31]/3 [16]/3 [17]/3 [18]/3 would be contiguous in this sense, with block size 16.) The third argument gives the block size needed for the block in question to be considered contiguous, and must be a constant integer that's a power of 2, and at least as great as the number of level 1 subunits of a level 2 unit. (The level 1 subunit with identifier 0 gets the first word of the slab, [27]/3 in the example above, the subuni < 1312272554 261064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t with identifier 1 gets the second, and so on.) Indirect memory addresses can be given for the first two arguments, with the same restrictions as in the previous case. This instruction is very fast compared to other checkout instructions, taking around twice as long to execute as arithmetic instructions. Additionally, two move/2 instructions with the same arguments, the first from level 3 to level 1 and the second in the other direction, can tak < 1312272559 258851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e less time between them to execute than either would individually; the condition for this to happen is that the block size must be set to the amount of level 3 memory per unit (or higher), that they are separated by nothing but arbitrary level 1 i < 1312272561 244130 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soryt im not reading that < 1312272563 181373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1312272565 351099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xchat < 1312272567 297578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut that off < 1312272569 207027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't let it all go in the input field < 1312272573 607311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout/Quick_reference < 1312272576 210954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go.... < 1312272622 837841 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess shaders are such a thing such that a c-like language is appropriate?? < 1312272665 699760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: C is too high-level like I said < 1312272670 360405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes bad assumptions :| < 1312272675 585379 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but I mean < 1312272693 843655 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by appropriate, not high- or low-level but < 1312272695 746605 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right-level < 1312272696 168668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it couldn't be like, java if that is what you mean.......... < 1312272729 490122 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like how HOtMEfSPRIbNG is really high-level but the wrong abstraction entirely for pretty much anything < 1312272745 923941 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in this case instead of HOtMEfSPRIbNG it is C < 1312272752 145838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312272778 664090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.overclock.net/coding-programming/345618-wide-world-code.html oh no the overclockers have found us < 1312272791 888129 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no overclockers < 1312272795 496537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what about LOLCODE?" < 1312272799 993355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM GOING TO PUNCH MY FACE THROUGH YOUR BRAIN < 1312272805 490421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thank god it ended after three posts < 1312272830 145443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i understood homespring < 1312272883 169754 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about snack < 1312272892 909655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, < 1312272963 678363 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what < 1312272968 344891 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snack's creator genius < 1312272969 712525 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was thinkign < 1312272973 542794 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when making < 1312272974 417773 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snack < 1312272990 956677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably "im smart" < 1312272998 467034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in five days snack is a month old < 1312273016 991713 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not cakes and chips < 1312273021 694736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one day (warning: scary story ahead) < 1312273025 275091 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking lolcode < 1312273025 465803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be a hundred years old < 1312273028 956070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will say < 1312273031 658214 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a month? two months? < 1312273033 338801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can we make our langauges last a hundred years < 1312273034 445585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like snack has < 1312273042 939669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they decide < 1312273048 533198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there is only one way < 1312273053 709360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a command that prints SLEEP? ARE YOU CRAZY? LETS GET UP FOR MIDNIGHT DINNER" < 1312273055 797261 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a month ago from five days from now snack willwas be a month old < 1312273069 698297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312273076 183927 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it a june lnaguage < 1312273088 126533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1312273090 187998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how < 1312273095 422596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh right < 1312273096 518721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love < 1312273096 958968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1312273098 985947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Snack < 1312273101 785495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an undocumented command < 1312273119 501968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you not even document the like five commands your awful language has < 1312273120 505997 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean < 1312273132 397836 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he documented 5 of them < 1312273132 833384 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's SmallBug < 1312273134 629230 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a start < 1312273136 733812 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bad person < 1312273139 180070 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1312273148 450343 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is smallbug you, itidus20 < 1312273171 247007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you implying itidus20 is a bad erson < 1312273172 398498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1312273195 394092 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! Je ne suis pas sur le wiki. < 1312273206 566215 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also like how in the implementation < 1312273207 644061 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(google translated) < 1312273207 855485 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the int < 1312273208 750630 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ceci n'est pas une snack < 1312273209 644298 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is called stack < 1312273211 959607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312273216 439224 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dandy =)) < 1312273228 933271 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything is indented a space < 1312273243 157159 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that just the first two lines after the include < 1312273247 729672 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help snakes killed me < 1312273252 438765 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snack's < 1312273254 727550 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snack < 1312273264 44029 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help i cant smell snacks i mean spell help < 1312273271 41821 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant spell spoepll ahELP < 1312273272 271730 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not the Doctor; Ian < 1312273281 257340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: same person obviosuly < 1312273289 681971 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its ok to not smell snacks as long as you can: grave get eat them < 1312273332 762472 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1312273333 859338 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have eaten as a snack right 1 people. Happy? < 1312273373 741564 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ceci n'est pas une “Ceci n'est pas une “Ceci n'est pas une “Ceci n'est pas une “... < 1312273378 491196 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man what if you do grave then let a nonexistant people free < 1312273379 937268 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then eat < 1312273384 845064 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will have eaten...negative people < 1312273389 742134 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1312273392 104291 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do eet < 1312273421 385555 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what does that mean? < 1312273433 467264 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: < 1312273446 64780 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not a "This is not a "This is not a..." < 1312273451 210805 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: This is not a “This is not a “This is not a... < 1312273492 185112 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monospaced font made that awesome < 1312273497 802177 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ("Ceci n'est pas une “++) < 1312273498 331139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1312273498 522700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at end o... < 1312273502 806032 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1312273505 539895 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ce n'est pas un truc l'esprit < 1312273516 949700 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/La_trahison_des_images < 1312273518 582667 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> recurse ("Ceci n'est pas une \"“++) "Ceci n'est pas une “ < 1312273519 229558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : lexical error at character '\8220' < 1312273520 539259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: wrong quote type < 1312273525 533701 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> recurse ("Ceci n'est pas une “"++) "Ceci n'est pas une “ < 1312273526 219236 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : < 1312273526 410109 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : lexical error in string/character literal at end o... < 1312273531 12809 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> recurse ("Ceci n'est pas une “"++) "Ceci n'est pas une “" < 1312273531 433612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `recurse' < 1312273531 624696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :t pas une “++) < 1312273532 537437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god < 1312273533 562368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at it < 1312273535 258713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :“++) < 1312273536 480720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a " < 1312273538 541203 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah. < 1312273540 919538 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly < 1312273543 73554 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't show up in my editbox. < 1312273552 325760 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you edit box < 1312273569 32388 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ("Ceci n'est pas une "++) < 1312273570 402265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Ceci n'est pas une Ceci n'est pas une Ceci n'est pas une Ceci n'est pas un... < 1312273583 239692 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ("\"Ceci n'est pas une "++) < 1312273584 532642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"Ceci n'est pas une \"Ceci n'est pas une \"Ceci n'est pas une \"Ceci n'es... < 1312273590 638964 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uglier, but closer < 1312273604 745882 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ("Ceci n'est pas une “"++) < 1312273606 100376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Ceci n'est pas une \8220Ceci n'est pas une \8220Ceci n'est pas une \8220Ce... < 1312273615 712179 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame about the uglyprinting. < 1312273620 499060 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sour < 1312273646 556305 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should write an ugly-printer < 1312273652 678281 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle "”" < 1312273653 346890 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\8221\822... < 1312273660 78827 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a Perl compiler? < 1312273664 738515 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dandy: suffice to say you detected in my post the influence of the Magritte reference I saw yesterday < 1312273672 520716 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (fix ("Ceci n'est pas une “"++)) ++ (cycle "”") < 1312273673 828044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Ceci n'est pas une \8220Ceci n'est pas une \8220Ceci n'est pas une \8220Ce... < 1312273679 554146 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Haha. Good on me :D < 1312273694 744207 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, yes, but with a nicer user interface < 1312273712 567943 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL lymee < 1312273719 930246 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: Exactly equivalent to the statement sans ++ (cycle "”"). :) < 1312273730 766746 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuh-uh, 0.000...1 is a real number < 1312273743 880692 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312273769 233782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.999999999...0 =/= one dumbtarjsds < 1312273773 612114 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well. < 1312273776 350679 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program doesn't cheat! < 1312273776 624673 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolll < 1312273791 827901 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we ever build a computer capable of infinite cycles per second, the code will become useful. < 1312273815 411872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Nearly equivalent. Under some Haskell implementations, that would reconstruct the first list, giving you completely pointless allocation. < 1312273842 464639 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tail $ (fix ("Ceci n'est pas une “"++)) ++ (cycle "”") < 1312273843 813507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "eci n'est pas une \8220Ceci n'est pas une \8220Ceci n'est pas une \8220Cec... < 1312273849 696443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com.com.com < 1312273849 893031 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last $ (fix ("Ceci n'est pas une “"++)) ++ (cycle "”") < 1312273853 339639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1312273853 623718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312273854 526112 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1312273858 824103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you remember .com < 1312273862 490614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312273865 11009 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, that's true, in that's it's meaningless < 1312273866 355068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.xomc.om.cm < 1312273869 984397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312273873 571865 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: com.com? God that was a stupid thing. < 1312273879 27052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312273880 456071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.comcomcom < 1312273885 432396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com.com.com.com.com < 1312273891 492674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.ww.w.com < 1312273897 711286 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently com.com redirects to cnet < 1312273905 214726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :..........q;come < 1312273906 720317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come < 1312273907 405832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312273909 158492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.sompdf.com < 1312273912 264223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some.come < 1312273914 920147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pony.com < 1312273927 438286 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dotat.at < 1312273927 628982 :asiekierka!Kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1312273928 529730 :asiekierka!Kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1312273930 598079 :asiekierka!Kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :long time no see! D: < 1312273931 669867 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1312273938 688723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were in here days ago < 1312273941 209889 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Yes, they used to maintain a hierarchy of sites under com.com. < 1312273944 49487 :asiekierka!Kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't really talk < 1312273946 23783 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I am not fucking kidding. < 1312273951 198689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're going to talk < 1312273957 234794 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That depresses me on an existential level < 1312273963 687396 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ve have ways of making you TALK! < 1312273963 877564 :asiekierka!Kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :much to your disappointment, possibly, elliott < 1312273969 967516 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's saying something < 1312273986 756799 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312273987 168622 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CNET seems to have cornered the market on stupid domain names. < 1312273987 359809 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes at asiekierka  < 1312273992 523727 :asiekierka!Kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes back < 1312273998 822405 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312274013 809939 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what the shit, FURscript < 1312274019 907398 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also have, like, download.com, upload.com, tv.com, search.com, radio.com, and computers.com... < 1312274023 18661 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi stop being missing from espernet < 1312274039 411161 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like they think extraordinarily simple nouns make good brand names. Cute. < 1312274071 134249 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: My heart hurts < 1312274084 934472 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, it was the 90s. < 1312274121 468586 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always feel a bit weird when I realise I was alive during the dot.com bubble < 1312274122 655296 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was a magical time when everyone got on a computer and forgot every single bit of knowledge we learned over the course of centuries. < 1312274128 169610 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolcnet < 1312274131 804167 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damnable 90s and their non-exhausted IPv4 space < 1312274156 799567 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like having a bunch of domains uses up IPv4 space. < 1312274162 989722 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1312274169 947046 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not talking about domains :D < 1312274182 982871 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm complaining about yesteryear < 1312274189 841993 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterdecade < 1312274191 784583 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1312274198 449566 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should damn an older period for being insufficiently forward-thinking. < 1312274213 552938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, 32 bits should be enough. It's not like more than 100 hosts will use it anyways, right?" < 1312274222 933147 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fools < 1312274245 649840 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This computer thing will never catch on. And networking? Pish tosh." < 1312274261 44736 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they presumed it was a research network. < 1312274269 96138 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it was just a demo thing and before long someone pressed the accelerator while everyone was just sitting on top of the car < 1312274273 131132 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vacua and nuclear ovens are the future damn it! < 1312274280 116567 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a network that would leap off into production. < 1312274284 302784 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before they knew it the world was full of 32bit addresses < 1312274290 191269 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware -_- < 1312274311 426155 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world wide web was invented to make it easier to get data from one computer to another in the same room somewhere deep on the France-Switzerland border < 1312274330 859285 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those wacky Europeans < 1312274334 110254 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The World Wide Web was also a wiki protocol. < 1312274342 140366 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: HTTP < 1312274345 258006 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, HTTP. < 1312274347 610432 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1312274354 296989 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP is not the World Wide Web < 1312274355 889721 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :First the Web, then the LHC... It's like they WANT the world to die < 1312274370 184925 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The World Wide Web was intended as a giant wiki, though. < 1312274381 697274 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It kinda is < 1312274387 736643 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with many, many locked pages < 1312274400 277173 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in *any* way like it was designed. < 1312274413 815932 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half of HTTP gets completely ignored. < 1312274447 44173 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PATCH, DELETE, PUT? Hah. < 1312274466 430361 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how you can be "deep on the border". < 1312274469 110783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :patch is new............ < 1312274471 716528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was invented last year.......... < 1312274476 441338 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Srsly? < 1312274479 473776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes............. < 1312274492 13854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) L. Dusseault < 1312274492 204885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Request for Comments: 5789 Linden Lab < 1312274492 204977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Category: Standards Track J. Snell < 1312274492 205021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISSN: 2070-1721 March 2010 < 1312274492 205067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : PATCH Method for HTTP < 1312274501 947203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After a long, long time, the HTTP PATCH verb has become an official standard: IETF RFC 5789." < 1312274503 953355 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, stop using that many dots, it makes you look like you're 8. In the 90s. < 1312274506 278726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been invented earlier i dunno < 1312274510 731763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i am............. < 1312274531 868982 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god < 1312274535 810917 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, PUT. < 1312274540 104845 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nineties was the decade before last < 1312274578 121775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Given that it’s taken something like 10 years to get PATCH in" < 1312274578 905783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1312274579 590285 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do 8 years old do now anyway < 1312274592 63255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: irc < 1312274615 202541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be cool if i could become eight again and be all awesome ahead of time........ < 1312274626 214271 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was probably a horrible person when i was 8 < 1312274637 452091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1312274638 458554 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are any 8 years olds not horrible people < 1312274639 781276 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am glad I don't have IRC logs from when I was 8. < 1312274640 834109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i know it < 1312274641 539361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312274641 786202 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a robot body, you can be!~ < 1312274644 723309 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was an idiot who thought he was the best at everything < 1312274660 936453 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have IRC logs from when I was 8... < 1312274673 850391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully, < 1312274675 404493 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't irc when I was 8, thankfully < 1312274677 852406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only traces of me being eight < 1312274680 402189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are under a different nickname < 1312274684 477432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has, to my knowledge, < 1312274693 1924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never, ever been publicly linked to my name or any of the nicks i've ever used on irc or ever < 1312274697 590514 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been expunged from the judicial record? < 1312274699 373437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i am ............. safe ......... < 1312274700 383430 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do 8 year olds do on irc anyway < 1312274703 418389 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only traces of me being eight that I know of *are* my nickname. < 1312274710 785343 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :embarrass themselves and fail to notice it? < 1312274712 609975 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Internet Relay Chat? < 1312274714 983882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: cyber.........esolangs........................haskell......... < 1312274724 330238 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyber < 1312274727 459142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :u be haskell, ill be brainfuck, i put on my robe and type theory hat < 1312274730 169084 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: These things are isomorphic < 1312274744 215076 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I knew about esolangs or haskell when I was 8 :( < 1312274778 853431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not ready for twenty days time... can i put off becoming sixteen until im like sixteen < 1312274783 718554 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was eight, the closest I got to esolangs was writing down roman numerals in Excel < 1312274797 8108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not ready to sixteen yet :{ < 1312274806 134035 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;ll never ready to sixteen < 1312274820 623147 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got ready to sixteen just before I sixteened < 1312274821 30426 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not ready to sixteen < 1312274830 654082 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I already sixteened < 1312274831 767728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: help, its going to fast, < 1312274834 34366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it stop, < 1312274841 336287 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Congrats, you're 61. < 1312274846 94448 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't stop it < 1312274851 952219 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only make it go faster < 1312274858 992568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how, is it meth, < 1312274860 880141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think its meth) < 1312274865 295184 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Well, you can stop the flow of time. < 1312274870 149704 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1312274875 21276 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just fine a nearby event horizon. < 1312274885 31728 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy as pie < 1312274892 246559 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`/win 7 < 1312274896 14701 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1312274907 573931 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: that's cause you suck < 1312275385 410140 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1312275395 899645 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it hates Windows 8 < 1312275399 794914 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/88/7/ < 1312275403 656523 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/88/8/ < 1312276116 37876 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312277174 593501 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1312277432 176740 :asiekierka!Kouta@078088171091.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312277744 676797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is built on top of the programmable pipeline (i.e. non-fixed function) of OpenGL 2.1" < 1312277745 245603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312277792 542034 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this mean < 1312277858 730645 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't use the "global" projection/modelview matrices, pretty much. (And the same applies to lighting and things like that.) < 1312277951 543746 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an awesome flowchart somewhere which shows the fixed-function pipeline, and where shaders fit there, and which parts are/can be skipped if you feed stuff to them. < 1312277995 97975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is confusing :( < 1312278003 363277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why does gpipe use all this advanced stuff but then depend on glut....... < 1312278047 126872 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe you should use DirectX instead, the fixed-function D3D 9.0 pipeline is much simpler: http://www.ategpu.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/20090605_0ae51d1100b0ce18cfa6kJFDIv2M25XR.png < 1312278058 39739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312278071 620712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't directx actually simpler to use though :) < 1312278159 48118 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not by much, really. But I'm no expert. < 1312278218 500686 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, I can only find a flowchart of the current, programmable pipeline: http://www.opentk.com/files/OpenGL%20machine%20diagram%20v2.png -- I'm sure there was one that showed the old, more complicated one, which pretty much replaces the blocks that say "Shader" with a mess. < 1312278267 541334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it so complicated :( < 1312278270 904207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not simples < 1312278429 636154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the old OpenGL 1.1 state machine: http://www.opengl.org/documentation/specs/version1.1/state.pdf -- the programmable pipeline just skips large parts of that and replaces them with your shaders. < 1312278441 364966 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google image search doesn't seem to find pictures that are inside PDF documents. :/ < 1312278529 935884 :pitufoide!~vandresv@c-66-229-123-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1312278541 52745 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312278585 326344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have officially labeled most of the "old-fashioned" parts as deprecated in current (3 and later) OpenGL versions. < 1312278616 460633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.ortho2D 0 (realToFrac w) (realToFrac h) 0 < 1312278616 887978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : orthoProj = orthogonal (-10) 10 (2:.2:.()) < 1312278617 84718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312278621 402702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how the first becomes the second... < 1312278630 375933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah they've deprecated practically everything :( < 1312278642 210708 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should probably look at the docs of "orthogonal" to specify that. < 1312278671 222476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1312278671 810990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- | An orthogonal projection matrix for a right handed coordinate system looking down negative z. This will project far plane to @z = +1@ and near plane to @z = -1@, i.e. into a left handed system. < 1312278672 97213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orthogonal :: Fractional a < 1312278672 293954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : => a -- ^ Near plane clipping distance < 1312278672 294151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> a -- ^ Far plane clipping distance < 1312278673 28281 :pitufoide!~vandresv@c-66-229-123-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312278673 693983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> Vec2 a -- ^ The size of the view (center aligned around origo) < 1312278675 506148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> Mat44 a < 1312278677 547278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then < 1312278679 409618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exactly sure on GL.ortho2D :) < 1312278688 671076 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's already centered, then. < 1312278726 392798 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's just orthogonal (-1) 1 (w :. h :. ()) or whatever you need to do to 'w' and 'h' in there. < 1312278747 182304 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ortho2D puts the clipping planes at -1 and 1.) < 1312278768 800924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah. < 1312278769 516287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?src when < 1312278769 712679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when p s = if p then s else return () < 1312278778 899511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t when < 1312278779 437344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => Bool -> m () -> m () < 1312278781 549935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1312278782 119479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1312278927 702421 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to flip that thing though, since I guess "GL.ortho2D 0 (realToFrac w) (realToFrac h) 0" sets up a coordinate system where Y points down, not up. < 1312278940 766272 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Might be enough to just provide -h to it.) < 1312278985 558692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to find the equivalents of < 1312278988 856762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.viewport $= (GL.Position 0 0, size) < 1312278989 173818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.matrixMode $= GL.Projection < 1312278991 865576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.loadIdentity < 1312278992 62832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.translate $ GL.Vector3 (realToFrac w / 2) (realToFrac h / 2) (0 :: GL.GLdouble) < 1312279015 331928 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As mentioned, you don't need the GL.translate, if your 'orthogonal' is already centered. < 1312279041 280654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312279041 790037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1312279044 957119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame monqy < 1312279057 211167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that matrixMode/loadIdentity thing is abstracted out by GPipe < 1312279065 978442 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not a GL.loadIdentity either if it's building the matrix from scratch and not multiplying it over some existing one. < 1312279098 482519 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im blamed < 1312279112 462765 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Viewport and how to set the projection matrix depends on how your pipe does things, I suppose. < 1312279114 636685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is EVEN a MODE of MATRICES. < 1312279148 639399 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the global flag that decides which matrix the matrix-operating functions (like loadIdentity and such) operate on. < 1312279151 190910 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most common matrix? < 1312279198 69475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about the viewport? < 1312279200 959847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ortho thing also handle that? < 1312279202 23432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so. < 1312279254 463552 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312279266 640897 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I don't know about. In the fixed-function pipeline it's an affine transformation from "normalized device coordinates" (i.e. what you get after the projection matrix is applied) into window coordinates. < 1312279286 560049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it seems to work-ish. < 1312279304 892754 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the -ish < 1312279327 847356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well things. < 1312279331 982832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to make it actually move for instance. < 1312279336 802299 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :segfaults < 1312279340 636735 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312279351 269712 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and banana? < 1312279415 357212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes. < 1312279416 375622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im so banana < 1312279509 354312 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312279548 629233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1312279548 938208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog < 1312279646 262690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312279650 36461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1312279651 109651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye clog < 1312279655 227333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1312279658 591802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1312279719 663527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: codu,,, < 1312279720 648404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn it,,, < 1312279775 966183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i do. btw it was removed from topic. < 1312279807 615962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuk quintopia < 1312279813 71899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1312279818 83435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tunes in topic in retaliation < 1312279959 964191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im think, rotate, now, < 1312279975 183795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GL.rotate (blah * 100) (GL.Vector3 0 0 (1 :: GL.GLfloat)) < 1312279975 466726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312279981 199269 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congarts < 1312280075 832155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://i.imgur.com/FQdnB.png < 1312280086 107670 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue < 1312280089 580428 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adn greene < 1312280094 518365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its title "Green Triangle" of window < 1312280105 149915 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a second box too wheres the traingle < 1312280111 457558 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a threedee box < 1312280132 159998 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes are going funny in the blue and green and tired and it's going distortey < 1312280150 106099 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i cannot make heads or tales of the specifics of what this box actually looks like < 1312280158 10776 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm thinking it's a square < 1312280163 608011 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing fancy < 1312280173 566540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1312280174 902296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just < 1312280179 321171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicating the thing you did < 1312280181 603638 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312280375 333883 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312280405 894839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : no tunes in topic in retaliation <-- well now you are annoying _me_... < 1312280427 721810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, i'm in a bad mood to start with. < 1312280442 437793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyed over log bots in topics < 1312280447 73398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oerjan life < 1312280469 216856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, annoyed over stupid "retaliation" games < 1312280532 505109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you realise im not serious................... < 1312280564 125357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too gloomy to realize anything. HOW DO YOU WANT YOUR BAN SERVED? < 1312280578 792277 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you guys ever used the spectrogram in foobar2000 or an equivalent < 1312280646 809066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly thinks spectrogram sounds like something at the other meaning of "esoteric" < 1312280668 925582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the ghostbusters have one < 1312280675 865520 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ghostrogram. < 1312280713 679303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.debian.com.net.org.opengl < 1312280773 318159 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unsure whether that was "an equivalent of foobar2000" or "an equivalent of a spectrogram in foobar2000". < 1312280773 531374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my 3-cell BF fractran seems to have a snag :( < 1312280779 915882 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter < 1312280812 345802 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know exactly what its spectrogram looks like, but I've drawn quite a lot of them with matlab and such. < 1312280819 233344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how to do the equivalent of if (!a) { a = C1*b+D1; b=0; } < 1312280821 43111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :{ < 1312280866 774287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the arithmetic that's the problem, it's actually conditioning on something being zero without clobbering when it isn't... < 1312280895 263912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :four cells?? < 1312280937 497793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :four cells should be fine i guess < 1312280960 245204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can actually use a cell for a test flag < 1312280981 634113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok, im going to try introducing the reactive bananas < 1312280991 387251 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man oh man < 1312280999 273477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BE PREPARED FOR POTASSIUM < 1312281058 97180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it occurs to me that this niceness of GPipe will be ah... tarnished a bit when i actually write gamey stuff < 1312281061 29613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I need OpenAL too < 1312281067 544277 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312281068 588551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i dont htink theres an APipe......... < 1312281082 628380 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is openal........saddening < 1312281092 183207 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are there no alternatives < 1312281093 496236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its modelled to be as much like opengl as possible < 1312281096 280001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously) < 1312281098 740709 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1312281104 846907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well there are alternatives but openal is cool because it offers threedee sound??? < 1312281105 505628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like < 1312281107 803168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can just position sounds properly < 1312281111 336242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they'll doppler properly < 1312281115 224046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get quietier as you walk away < 1312281116 990834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you turn around < 1312281120 945344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll sound like they're behind you < 1312281121 860127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1312281125 176002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool................ < 1312281134 210751 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing i don't need threedee sound for what i want to do because what i want to do is twodee < 1312281143 751778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you, want to do, < 1312281149 621353 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont < 1312281150 473333 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1312281150 995561 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :know < 1312281155 932710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, try, to explain, < 1312281161 267229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : and they'll doppler properly <-- wait, as in actually consider relative velocity? :P < 1312281173 532569 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is it's twodee and it involves a very special type of graphicals which is also hard to explain < 1312281174 752776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well "The rendering engine performs all necessary calculations as far as distance attenuation, Doppler effect, etc." --wikipedia < 1312281183 886556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so i think so < 1312281188 93290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1312281264 71165 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You can even vary the speed of sound (though only globally) which affects the doppler calculations. < 1312281335 235114 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what i want to do is kind of bizarre < 1312281339 881741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it........ < 1312281342 666829 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes explaantion..h.arder. < 1312281346 142778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try, < 1312281349 621104 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cant < 1312281354 903021 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_: < 1312281365 893352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try, < 1312281416 514075 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess the graphicals might be described as subtley wavy or something and they vary over time?? < 1312281423 955570 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels unwell < 1312281426 232612 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a vision for this but i m bad at descirbe < 1312281432 745315 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is even less concrete < 1312281433 833845 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than yesterday, but still unwell < 1312281436 853082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is, gameplay, < 1312281442 566433 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the least concrete < 1312281450 898255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the graphics triangles < 1312281458 158838 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are rendered using triangles < 1312281467 188771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is evrything < 1312281473 735258 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captai Obvios < 1312281488 506331 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1312281490 359231 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nnnn < 1312281491 980214 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Now I am curious as to what that spectrogram question was all about? < 1312281492 240116 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use triangles instead of lines because then i can vary their specifics over position and time?? < 1312281492 445437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :u < 1312281493 52433 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuu < 1312281505 123329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok? < 1312281509 10005 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1312281509 215567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what is the game like, < 1312281524 477873 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may or may not. involve the display of text. < 1312281529 753014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312281532 643640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GAME < 1312281539 281069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:{ < 1312281543 472526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im must know........ < 1312281547 282876 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not relevant to gameplay. though. it is more of fan . aesthetic. < 1312281552 398357 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i uh < 1312281560 171628 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't really decided much about the actual < 1312281561 130189 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gameplay < 1312281561 566611 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1312281565 829713 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything < 1312281566 454371 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1312281573 356973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1312281597 614298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reactimate :: Event PushIO (IO ()) -> NetworkDescription ()Source < 1312281597 816304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output. Execute the IO action whenever the event occurs. < 1312281600 644707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :REACTIMATE.... < 1312281605 856740 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reactimate < 1312281662 278455 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any good way to do gameplay < 1312281664 513865 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if there is < 1312281666 344341 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :reactimate :-D < 1312281667 333545 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may want to use that < 1312281727 187070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: its FRRRPY < 1312281732 227972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1312281735 362331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :after you compile your event network < 1312281736 984592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with reactimations in it < 1312281738 532601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1312281741 328957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- register handlers and start producing outputs < 1312281741 534351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : actuate network < 1312281744 961071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ACTUATE YOUR REACTIMATIONS < 1312281758 205728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: btw the library i am using... depends on your tries... you are famous... < 1312281778 138821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it may or may not. involve the display of text. <-- i am still going to assume it's pornographic until you tell what it is. < 1312281794 471772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (not reactive-banana) < 1312281795 538734 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1312281820 727890 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's PROBABLY NOT pornographic < 1312281826 821437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1312281841 987255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in _all_ countries < 1312281855 368422 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the criteria for being pornographic < 1312281866 115562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in denmark, it would probably be considered entirely appropriate for children. < 1312281928 195476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in iran, it would probably be considered entirely appropriate as firewood. < 1312281937 576734 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So you'll blame me if it doesn't work? < 1312282015 298443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes < 1312282021 195485 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great < 1312282026 903009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (its GPipe) < 1312282037 541026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (it also uses Vec which means the type errors are really confusing :( ) < 1312282538 798186 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1312282614 122590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle ThreadId -> IO () < 1312282614 328578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Concurrent killThread :: ThreadId -> IO () < 1312282614 328749 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException throwDynTo :: Typeable exception => ThreadId -> exception -> IO () < 1312282614 328859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Concurrent throwTo :: Exception e => ThreadId -> e -> IO () < 1312282918 872101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle delete < 1312282919 77183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.HashTable delete :: HashTable key val -> key -> IO () < 1312282919 77355 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap delete :: Key -> IntMap a -> IntMap a < 1312282919 77497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntSet delete :: Int -> IntSet -> IntSet < 1312282920 423460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle remove < 1312282920 628484 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Monad.IOArray removeDel :: IOArray Node Bool -> Adj b -> IO (Adj b) < 1312282920 628658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Directory removeDirectory :: FilePath -> IO () < 1312282920 947409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.Directory removeDirectoryRecursive :: FilePath -> IO () < 1312282958 383192 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle exterminate < 1312282958 644138 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1312282960 951839 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312282968 168274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle eviscerate < 1312282968 549342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1312283109 682632 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle obliterate < 1312283110 137231 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1312283211 523883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://holumbus.fh-wedel.de/hayoo/hayoo.html#0:obliterate < 1312283255 911510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs and wumpus both sound appropriate < 1312283392 995295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obliterate is the thing that permanently removes a patch from a repository < 1312283398 998021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary stuff :) < 1312283415 620091 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :*everyone gasps and puts hands to their mouthes* < 1312283421 232071 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which vcs are we talking about? < 1312283429 577483 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in perforce, obliterate removes a file, not a patch < 1312283437 458185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: dunno, maybe you could look a single line up to find out < 1312283444 228165 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it rewrites all the vcs history to remove all mention of that file < 1312283444 865346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also who the fuck uses perforce < 1312283453 514519 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: big companies < 1312283468 280526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i know < 1312283481 227962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how perforce is terrible in every way, that's a good thing about perforce < 1312283518 835378 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perforce is a precursor to modern dvcs < 1312283532 601625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit, perforce is centralised < 1312283551 454313 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I said precursor < 1312283558 873382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then so is sccs < 1312283577 333139 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about sccs specifically, but I suspect not in the sense that I mean < 1312283613 921820 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :perforce's changelists allow for easy communication of small groups of changes in a manner similar to a dvcs < 1312283643 733866 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've just worked out how to do lambda calculus in VB.NET < 1312283647 610996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :other similarities perforce has to dvcses: it has files; it has commands < 1312283655 154041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it uses an alphabet < 1312283662 506979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :total precursor < 1312283688 393931 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay I'm guessing you actually have no fucking clue how perforce works < 1312283708 428259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing you're experiencing stockholm syndrome :) < 1312283719 568198 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what < 1312283736 843526 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's bad about perforce exactly < 1312283801 544154 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: It tracks changes at a file level; it is centralized; it is proprietary < 1312283840 11642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, I've just worked out how to do lambda calculus in VB.NET <-- wait, should we cheer or boo now? < 1312283890 673840 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just ignore it < 1312283899 808309 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: not physically possible < 1312283900 578771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :INCONCEIVABLE < 1312283919 187730 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wish VB.NET luck in its slow progress to becoming a useable programming language < 1312283955 542177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually recall that some people think it does some things better than C# < 1312283973 783487 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was the first programming language I learnt < 1312283976 203391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you i don't actually know either, just following the hivemind... < 1312284003 995783 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312284127 793090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan................... < 1312284136 450354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Typeable instances, yikes! < 1312284136 656272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Also, these instances are wrong, but I don't care. < 1312284136 861398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Typeable WX.EventKey where < 1312284136 861617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : typeOf _ = mkTyConApp (mkTyCon "WX.EventKey") [] < 1312284136 861719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Typeable WX.EventMouse where < 1312284137 417126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : typeOf _ = mkTyConApp (mkTyCon "WX.EventMouse") [] < 1312284177 632364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the function which is being deprecated, isn't it < 1312284198 111110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which function < 1312284205 174731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkTyConApp < 1312284210 293520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, why? < 1312284221 152227 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also "Dr. Who" in the credits :( < 1312284228 814780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My understanding is the part that will be changing in future versions of GHC is that you should use a different function, mkTyCon3, which takes the package name, module name, and type name as separate arguments." < 1312284229 76582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312284236 946480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1312284247 913677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the writers and producers are much less anal about the show than the fans :P < 1312284259 725628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: see also: every script was titled "Doctor Who and the X" < 1312284264 704707 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "were" < 1312284266 976022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that does seem saner... < 1312284281 53130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they're anal now? < 1312284313 356629 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are more careful now < 1312284376 144712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good news....i think i cna....extricate the glut < 1312284405 59191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds like a somewhat painful procedure. do you have enough anesthetics? < 1312284415 469599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know.,, but i do have teh world < 1312284476 51933 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doctor Who and the furbies < 1312284530 521003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a furby < 1312284561 473792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :google suggest correcting it to "furies". not that that exists either. < 1312284565 138914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1312284588 638404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its furbys ur prlaurl wrong < 1312284597 196069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312284626 588794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Furby (plural Furbys or Furbies) was [...]" < 1312284633 805799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP IM EXPERT < 1312284697 287140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that monqy slipe aaway, < 1312284705 413422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help im having trouble extricating < 1312284936 985407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GLFW doesn't work well with GHC threads, forkIO or threadDelay. So avoid them if you can. < 1312284937 230297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1312284937 766678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1312284974 348286 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1312284978 466957 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what can you use it with < 1312284981 462384 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably the usual "must be called from the main thread" thing? < 1312284984 369489 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312284990 28593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-portable) native threads < 1312284992 429294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its understandable it just sucks < 1312284998 397619 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/j5sdo/electrical_engineers_at_duke_university_have/c29f9o6 there should be a language called cross-talk < 1312285008 664080 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross talk: < 1312285014 120871 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a physical board of objects < 1312285018 45286 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects have to be very close to talk < 1312285018 568430 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1312285032 444153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever happened to string theory? (self.askscience) < 1312285040 60555 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312285040 911826 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever happened to Robot Jones? < 1312285069 703891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :string theory is just waiting for us to develop a galactic empire powerful enough to actually _test_ it, duh < 1312285083 876559 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the collatz conjecture waiting for then? < 1312285103 675151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait, string theory has tests? :) < 1312285138 583700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish elliottcable would shut the fuck up whenever I talk in #haskell. < 1312285152 482842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it, you want my nick; you've already offered to pay me for it, and I've named a price, so pay up or shut up. < 1312285217 130357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well there was a test recently which might have been relevant to _some_ string theories, about whether photons change polarization over huge cosmic distances. alas nothing unexpected was found. < 1312285263 129334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was also relevant to loop quantum gravity iirc < 1312285306 805061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the idea is presumably that we can find some relevant tests once we can create black holes and stuff at will... < 1312285339 304473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. you get right on that, then. < 1312285340 349146 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312285357 799092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new she version, let us all dance: \o/ < 1312285358 4060 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                     | < 1312285358 209507 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                     >\ < 1312285359 192497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: soon as we got that galactic empire, 'guv < 1312285470 700692 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to send messages by quantum entanglement? < 1312285499 484711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No. < 1312285503 62287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No. No. No. No. < 1312285503 770617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No. < 1312285507 93181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No. No. No. < 1312285508 657885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, < 1312285510 207380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No. < 1312285513 465370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: "Mathematics is not yet ready for such problems." -- Paul Erdős < 1312285523 653662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sucks, in the scheme of things < 1312285543 452258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yes, the inability to go faster than light sucks a bit. < 1312285570 931421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forks GPipe. < 1312285574 263891 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no matter is moving faster than light! < 1312285582 142620 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only information! < 1312285587 352721 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we can test that paradox! < 1312285592 200444 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And solve the halting problem! < 1312285604 124452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh they've found P and CP violation, why not lorentz invariance violation < 1312285662 869477 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here comes the rainm < 1312285687 99736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it is an incredibly common misconception that quantum entanglement can cause information to be propagated faster than the speed of light. < 1312285688 868042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not so. < 1312285697 839203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you're british, that's not even news < 1312285712 430136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Man, I would be downright offended as GPipe's dependency on list-tries if I were you -- it simultaneously uses Data.HashTable! < 1312285723 386850 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a statement of truth < 1312285726 912618 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than news < 1312285731 402295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1312285732 825526 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Olds, if you will < 1312285757 292435 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with using Data.HashTable if that's what you need < 1312285836 917510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I seem to recall that Data.HashTable is strongly deprecated. < 1312285847 888352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You may be thinking of the http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hashtables version. < 1312285852 28463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not the base Data.HashTable module. < 1312285865 583759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :v Pravde net izvestiy, v Izvestiyakh net pravdy < 1312285870 796283 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I didn't even know about that < 1312285877 321193 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.HashTable doesn't say it's deprecated < 1312285921 173595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, I know that people who use HashTable are yelled at :-) < 1312285934 957362 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably because they don't have a good reason for using it < 1312285948 953887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gregorycollins.net/posts/2011/06/11/announcing-hashtables is pretty biased, obviously, but comes down to "lol the structure sucks". < 1312285971 427316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/Code/GPipe/src/Resources.hs:124:62: < 1312285971 661724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.ListTrie.Base.Map.Map < 1312285971 866999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Map (ShaderKeyNode, [Int])) < 1312285971 867170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `TrieMap.lookup' < 1312285973 288665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This your fault? < 1312285997 483863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, the GitHub commit is older than the targz < 1312286053 381393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i thought the hashtable implementations had been greatly improved < 1312286058 197034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in base? < 1312286060 496911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was unaware < 1312286063 827698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it hasn't reached that module < 1312286068 419838 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't think so, no < 1312286105 371041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i dunno, but why wouldn't they replace the base version if there are improvements... < 1312286150 478567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there was this GC card marking thing, which presumably helps for all implementations... < 1312286165 772593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess that's old news now < 1312286490 233076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha wow < 1312286493 809697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hierarchical layout of this package < 1312286494 949628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is constructed < 1312286497 640980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :entirely from the hierarchical packages < 1312286501 761150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :importing and reexporting flat-hierarchy packages < 1312286502 326278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1312286506 791176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.GPipe.FrameBuffer < 1312286507 312977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is just < 1312286510 780701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :import OutputMerger < 1312286514 335279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a bunch of re-exported stuff < 1312286516 936730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that module < 1312286520 663347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1312286588 300216 :augur[sleep]!~augur@208.58.6.161 NICK :augur < 1312286845 547975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear GOD this code is horrible < 1312287001 940995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : extensions: ParallelListComp < 1312287002 146338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : MultiParamTypeClasses < 1312287002 146531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : NoMonomorphismRestriction < 1312287002 146639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ScopedTypeVariables < 1312287002 146746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : FlexibleContexts < 1312287002 351632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : FlexibleInstances < 1312287004 195308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : EmptyDataDecls < 1312287006 233288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving < 1312287008 295473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : TypeFamilies < 1312287011 929352 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that shi < 1312287012 452828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : TypeOperators < 1312287014 258981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you kidding me < 1312287014 463998 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck haskell < 1312287025 856711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And the LORD heard Elliott, and He smote the code with fire and obliterated it from the world. Then He got annoyed when elliott complained of his burning computer." < 1312287028 950503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: this has nothing to do with haskell < 1312287036 186151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are all reasonable extensions < 1312287040 176453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm complaining about the way they're being used < 1312288330 666613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OK, seriously, how the heck could cabal compile a module, but with all the same extension flags set, GHCi be unable to load it because of a missing list-tries instant? < 1312288331 451391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance < 1312288409 302187 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :list-tries uses CPP, maybe that's being somehow problematic? < 1312288423 245497 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that shouldn't cause that kind of error < 1312288424 800369 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So beats me < 1312288501 906720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I sure hope it isn't recompiling list-tries when I load it in ghci < 1312288505 251412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc --make with the same flags also fails < 1312288534 188919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, I do have to do "-hide-package monads-tf", so that Control.Monad.Reader imports correctly in the module I'm compiling < 1312288544 162929 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with those extensions? < 1312288544 753265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think there's any way for list-tries to observe this and fail to provide an instance because of it < 1312288660 580278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Nothing. < 1312288761 787522 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WFM < 1312288777 175652 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonder how much that lucid dreaming sleeping mask is < 1312288801 744150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I've got a conveniently-clonable repository that proves it doesn't WFY :P < 1312288814 288749 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1312288839 316481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :git://github.com/ehird/GPipe.git :-P < 1312288851 93665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(src/Resources.hs, to be specific; warning: hideous) < 1312288855 301313 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no desire to muffle sounds at night < 1312288864 744917 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if there's an emergency of some sort? < 1312288864 950334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: wat < 1312288892 694384 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sleepmaster.us one of my Google results. Also, not exactly what I'm googling for anyway < 1312288935 654006 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Dreamer-Lucid-Dreaming-Induction-Device/dp/B003EH4V8I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1312288764&sr=8-2 ok, that's a bit expensive < 1312288945 360968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh, it does induction < 1312288956 15441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as oerjan can tell you, that's very difficult. < 1312288979 863173 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312289047 265200 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312289078 693586 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Proof by Engineer's Induction: Suppose P(n) is a statement. 1. Prove true for P(1). 2. Prove true for P(2). 3. Prove true for P(3). 4. Therefore P(n) is true for all n." < 1312289110 100881 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1312289111 209327 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: This package indirectly depends on multiple versions of the same < 1312289111 414775 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :package. This is highly likely to cause a compile failure. < 1312289111 414952 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :package GPipe-1.3 requires containers-0.3.0.0 < 1312289111 415057 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :package list-tries-0.4.1 requires containers-0.4.0.0 < 1312289127 867729 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cabal configure) < 1312289139 579842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hmm. < 1312289158 878231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh. < 1312289162 183089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : build-depends: containers >= 0.3 && < 0.4, < 1312289163 59608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad. < 1312289185 816957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Still -- not sure how that should change my ghci results. < 1312289191 174662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I mean, it's not looking at the cabal file. < 1312289219 366171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it works with the cabal compile, anyway ;-) < 1312289245 862945 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wai < 1312289266 376979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So, erm, wait, list-tries' containers dependency is a bit wide-ranging < 1312289269 440801 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So what was the issue, 'cabal build' works but 'ghci src/Resources.hs' doesn't? < 1312289275 407723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it meant to pull in point-three or point-four < 1312289289 978815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: cabal build works but ghc --make -hide-package monads-tf (ALL THE EXTENSION FLAGS) src/Resources.hs doesn't < 1312289294 949200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Similarly for s/ghc --make/ghci/) < 1312289336 556700 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to pull in the latest you've got < 1312289357 567612 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It worked with point-two until last september when I pulled out the workarounds for it < 1312289484 526280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1312289494 83788 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I don't know what cabal does with that multiple versions stuff < 1312289529 363978 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine it building everything against 0.3 and then ghci looking only at list-tries's dependency on 0.4 (since that's what it was built against) and that not working then < 1312289532 477185 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something < 1312289545 652552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eurgh < 1312289549 803742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why would it do that < 1312289554 950429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no multiple versions stuff in the source < 1312289558 479189 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like said, I don't know what it does < 1312289558 742662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's purely in the cabal file < 1312289589 522911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is going to make my modifications quite difficult :) < 1312289593 526505 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cabal build' would grab whatever it thinks is fine, and I don't know what it thinks is fine if that depends on 0.3 but its dependencies on 0.4 < 1312289621 168621 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ghc'/'ghci' would look at 'ghc-pkg describe list-tries' (and for all the other dependencies) and go 'ah, 0.4' < 1312289626 933080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~$ ghc-pkg list | grep containers < 1312289627 138458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING: there are broken packages. Run 'ghc-pkg check' for more details. < 1312289627 343354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : containers-0.4.0.0 < 1312289627 343532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : containers-0.3.0.0 < 1312289627 343705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1312289637 432659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ghc-pkg check < 1312289637 637693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are problems in package hashed-storage-0.5.7: < 1312289637 843033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : dependency "binary-0.5.0.2-b471fd4ae9e6a992eed4cf652dba019b" doesn't exist < 1312289637 843217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following packages are broken, either because they have a problem < 1312289637 843327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :listed above, or because they depend on a broken package. < 1312289638 422821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashed-storage-0.5.7 < 1312289640 46988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs-2.5.2 < 1312289641 847751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1312289644 60968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is going on ;_; < 1312289646 60031 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That helps as well :-D < 1312289662 635136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs that binary... < 1312289663 803371 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess it shouldn't matter since those aren't being used here < 1312289731 817534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ghc-pkg check < 1312289732 58332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are problems in package list-tries-0.4.1: < 1312289732 58509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : dependency "binary-0.5.0.2-67c6c6f05b738dc39b1e1d3f0e7a53aa" doesn't exist < 1312289732 58616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following packages are broken, either because they have a problem < 1312289732 58719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :listed above, or because they depend on a broken package. < 1312289732 472624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :list-tries-0.4.1 < 1312289734 227005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPipe-1.3 < 1312289736 364697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPipe-TextureLoad-1.0.2 < 1312289738 308246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: help < 1312289742 409052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1312289744 311040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help :D < 1312289747 413695 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1312289756 172741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cabal install binary-0.5.0.2-67c6c6f05b738dc39b1e1d3f0e7a53aa < 1312289756 377816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resolving dependencies... < 1312289756 583243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No packages to be installed. All the requested packages are already installed. < 1312289756 583434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to reinstall anyway then use the --reinstall flag. < 1312289762 265045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it wants < 1312289763 834269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two different hashes < 1312289765 528436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the same library < 1312289777 849064 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal install --reinstall binary-0.5.0.2 and everything that depends on it < 1312289785 156207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I know what depends on it :P < 1312289789 585826 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc-pkg check ;-P < 1312289806 573998 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was no Cabal. :/ < 1312289808 770199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell < 1312289810 304715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following packages are broken, either because they have a problem < 1312289810 695894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :listed above, or because they depend on a broken package. < 1312289810 901953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :list-tries-0.4.1 < 1312289810 902157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPipe-1.3 < 1312289810 902268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPipe-TextureLoad-1.0.2 < 1312289816 830231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It is missing at least hashed-storage < 1312289820 977564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the different hash < 1312289822 48750 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 'ghc-pkg dot' if you like < 1312289835 423565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did my packages get so broken :/ < 1312289839 44994 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, you only need to reinstall the ones that depend on the missing hash :-P < 1312289888 342276 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My alternative solution that I have sometimes applied is rm -rf ~/.cabal/lib < 1312289890 637317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it occurs to me that I've never used GraphViz before < 1312289972 596866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1312289975 380738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dot sure does fail on ghc-pkg < 1312290005 361628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fifteen thousand by one thousand three hundred < 1312290008 711580 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The recommendation was ghc-pkg dot | tred | dot -Tpdf >pkgs.pdf < 1312290012 743718 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you run tred? < 1312290021 864239 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who turned red? < 1312290030 580354 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott soon, if not already < 1312290047 72450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That helps... a bit < 1312290098 179983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There appears to be no binary on this graph < 1312290113 337596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there it is < 1312290144 546455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Apparently list-tries just depends on containers and dlist < 1312290166 676117 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should depend on binary and base as well < 1312290177 763891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it doesn't :-) < 1312290180 723986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess base is omitted < 1312290190 376215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries reinstalling binary, list-tries, GPipe, GPipe-TextureLoad < 1312290197 486294 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc-pkg describe doesn't, it seems strange that ghc-pkg dot would < 1312290207 620255 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sure it's not because of the tred < 1312290215 594329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be < 1312290218 72907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does tred do < 1312290231 17704 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not because containers doesn't depend on binary < 1312290238 254141 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : tred - transitive reduction filter for directed graphs < 1312290253 834903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But bytestring depends on binray < 1312290263 274051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I bet something that list-tries depends on depends on binary :P < 1312290265 157146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or GPipe < 1312290266 886800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1312290305 260425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to recompile binary, hashed-storage, and darcs < 1312290307 441897 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :base doesn't < 1312290315 681596 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :containers depends only on array and base, which don't < 1312290323 898115 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlist depends only on base, which doesn't < 1312290394 527153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPipe depends on everything, though :-P < 1312290734 29402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ghc-pkg check < 1312290734 234842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are problems in package list-tries-0.4.1: < 1312290734 440347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : dependency "binary-0.5.0.2-67c6c6f05b738dc39b1e1d3f0e7a53aa" doesn't exist < 1312290734 440528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following packages are broken, either because they have a problem < 1312290734 440638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :listed above, or because they depend on a broken package. < 1312290734 942503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :list-tries-0.4.1 < 1312290736 979602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPipe-TextureLoad-1.0.2 < 1312290738 930053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPipe-1.3 < 1312290740 933492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JESUS FUCKING CHRIST < 1312290742 622262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : How did my packages get so broken :/ <-- sounds like augustss's (?) "butterfly" conflicts? < 1312290743 339998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally toggling between those two as I reinstall binary < 1312290869 435905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: got a link? < 1312290880 980827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, I don't have _that_ many packages installed < 1312290901 921081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing darcs, GPipe, and cid-state should get most of them < 1312290903 965880 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/the-butterfly-effect-in-cabal/ presumably < 1312290905 37890 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you aren't having a conflict within a single application, you might try cabal-dev < 1312290919 460334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I've considered cabal-dve < 1312290933 835820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I need to install hscolor too < 1312290935 188644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1312290940 517437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which needs to be done bootstrappingly < 1312290944 564723 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "What [cabal] does is certainly… suboptimal. When you build twitclient, it will recompile twittertags against parsec-2.1, which will break superblog. If you then reinstall superblog to fix it, Cabal will recompile twittertags against parsec-3.1, and break twitclient… and so on, ad infinitum." < 1312290948 867248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm OCD enough to die if hscolor doesn't get hscolor documentations < 1312290954 58241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BUT THEY'RE THE _SAME_ _VERSION_ < 1312290960 445744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can the same version have two hashes???????????? < 1312290975 292663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependencies base (<2.0), bytestring (≥0.9) or < 1312290975 685249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :base (≥2.0 & <2.2) or < 1312290975 900720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :base (≥3 & <3.0), bytestring (≥0.9) or < 1312290975 900895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :array, base (≥3.0), bytestring (≥0.9), containers < 1312290976 339505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1312290977 255178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how < 1312290978 955652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FML < 1312290994 142745 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that, Binary.cabal? < 1312291028 633170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, from Hackage, but yeah < 1312291043 312550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So different hashes because different dependencies < 1312291046 792033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, wait < 1312291050 275118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"≥3 & <3.0" < 1312291051 642959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: right < 1312291052 509373 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so the butterfly effect in this case is binary getting built against different stuff < 1312291054 246739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way that one is getting selected < 1312291058 710198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's bytestring < 1312291061 915801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1312291067 584618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should nuke ~/.cabal and ~/.ghc, right? < 1312291076 656993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then install binary manually, I guess < 1312291079 60000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1312291085 63723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know why list-tries got built against different stuff < 1312291092 889501 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't nuke .cabal unless you save .cabal/config < 1312291099 360205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it because GPipe has that old containers dependency? < 1312291103 71908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :containers (0.3.*) < 1312291112 262967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And binary just depends on "containers" < 1312291118 408073 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary is old :-P < 1312291129 899186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't explain anything < 1312291141 769307 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It somewhat explains its dependency style < 1312291158 181487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPipe pulls in list-tries (which needs containainers and is ok with point three), and also pulls in containers which MUST be zero point three; and binary gets pulled in < 1312291164 316653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we can't use a binary built against containers zero point four < 1312291170 157756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So cabal builds a binary against containers zero point three < 1312291173 339720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Links list-tries and GPipe against it < 1312291174 167671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1312291196 974355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if I change GPipe's containers dependency to "containers >= 0.4 && < 0.5,", everything should be fine < 1312291202 147017 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds plausible < 1312291206 213358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Anyway if binary is old, why do you depend on it :-P < 1312291217 83256 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody sent me a patch < 1312291227 969103 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, depend on this" and I was like "ok" < 1312291238 81571 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They wanted Binary instances) < 1312291243 243148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would simplify my life were you to remove that dependency :-P < 1312291260 307013 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a lot of people use Binary for stuff < 1312291268 731095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So make list-tries-binary? < 1312291277 297533 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the instances? :-P < 1312291279 545313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1312291283 944125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the "standard" thing, at least. < 1312291293 818249 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howso < 1312291316 619402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Whaddya mean < 1312291326 712927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plenty of "instance glue" packages out there < 1312291354 411604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just put them in Data.ListTrie.Binary < 1312291356 674592 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't orphan instances supposed to be bad < 1312291367 386109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's a controversial opinion :-P < 1312291374 950915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They work fine < 1312291398 263692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in this case it's pretty unambiguous < 1312291407 970711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you'd only want one instance of Binary < 1312291412 638207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'd be "blessed" < 1312291477 201535 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough I guess < 1312291498 803273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you may have gathered I'm forking GPipe to s/GLUT/GLFW-b/ < 1312291504 929296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hopefully reduce the ugly Vec shit < 1312291519 821729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my official opinion in that capacity is that I hate your binary dependency :-) < 1312291542 439174 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312291602 227615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw i realized that i might be able to reorganize if (!a) { a = C1*b+D1; b=0; } as b = C1*b+D1; if (a) { b = (b-D1)/C1; } modulo some moving around, so the 3-cell attempt is not quite dead yet. < 1312291620 167243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: woot < 1312291733 3883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1312291783 75135 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Too bad, the Set types need the instance for an unexported type < 1312291824 930880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Eh? < 1312291848 279239 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in: I'm not sure the instances can be defined with just the public API < 1312291862 155196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then your API is not good enoug :P < 1312291863 548312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough :P < 1312291895 801332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, if someone can't implement their own alternate binary serialisation for some other package with your aPI, that kind of sucks < 1312292449 465414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, shit, I clobbered cabal-install < 1312293697 372715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hooray, now it works < 1312294090 817501 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312294136 859356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is ridiculous how many maps this thing has < 1312294139 112267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to support multiple windows < 1312294142 968690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone use multiple windows < 1312294145 283954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with GLUT < 1312294263 560693 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1312294677 172843 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312294709 639726 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312294914 165376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you know of a Haskell reformatter tool, GPipe's code is really right-leaning and just hideous < 1312295429 347056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (a -> m ()) -> Maybe a -> m () < 1312295429 587057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable traverse_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f () < 1312295429 587242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable mapM_ :: (Foldable t, Monad m) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m () < 1312295429 587351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (=<<) :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> m a -> m b < 1312295528 869481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where takeOne a = case Map.lookup w a of < 1312295529 71388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing -> Left $ Map.elemAt 0 a < 1312295529 285114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just t -> Right t < 1312295529 569106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh < 1312295693 458085 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312296169 32884 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that just lookup again if the lookup failed? :-P < 1312296191 40682 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, 0 < 1312296296 902777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I thought the (Map GLUT.Window TextureObject) would translate to (Maybe TextureObject) < 1312296300 95673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not < 1312296318 527214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think it'd just be TextureObject, but, haha no, because it treats the Left and Right results differently there < 1312296329 740564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that the Right result just sets the textureBinding but the Left result initialises everything < 1312296334 33393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what it's actually trying to do < 1312296542 353026 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312296548 232938 :CakeProphet!~adam@h215.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312296548 716472 :CakeProphet!~adam@h215.26.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1312296548 918322 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1312298472 423714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312299135 302055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to tell git you moved a file after-the-fact? < 1312299181 799915 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I tend to do is git rm the old location and git add the new < 1312299196 432006 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's a better way < 1312299266 993472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't that make it not record it as a rename < 1312299287 722808 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should detect it, if you check git status it should say it was renamed < 1312299468 918486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1312299477 94076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid heuristics < 1312299780 39953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wonder if I should migrate it to another vector/linear algebra library < 1312299783 292199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vect or hmatrix or repa or something < 1312300035 671882 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312300559 392526 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move it back and then "git mv" it for reals? < 1312300629 105156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the Boering 747 solution. < 1312300660 265090 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictly speaking that's not how you "tell git you moved a file after-the-fact" < 1312301059 751032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Vec library looks like how my code ends up before I realise I've made a terrible mistake and abandon it. < 1312301464 543630 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312301480 455844 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1312301626 548268 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-23.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1312302253 431674 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1312302695 729408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312302738 453679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312303049 239945 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-219.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312304741 82611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: do you have a link to that generalised static-length vector fold you linked a while ago? it was on hpaste < 1312304758 58853 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr is easy to write < 1312304761 225348 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl is tougher < 1312304766 535029 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be on hpaste though < 1312304780 110692 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/41453 < 1312304822 195012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1312305031 271574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it'd be nice if the VecFlip stuff could be abstracted out somehow... < 1312305130 763786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapV f = unCev . foldrV (\x xs -> f x -: xs) (Cev V) < 1312305134 942971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's good enough < 1312305186 976786 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312306108 167687 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312306351 465783 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the Museum of Scotland is RUINED FOREVER. < 1312307154 443814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it turns out that antimony is really pretty. < 1312307163 642132 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I only fall for highly toxic elements? < 1312307373 156197 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1312307429 490010 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312307773 925596 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312307798 872071 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-35.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1312307799 315633 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-35.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1312307799 517752 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312308560 706454 :pingveno_!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312308611 788365 :pingveno_!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1312308633 287528 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312309076 417592 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312309153 283492 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thanks to Scandinavia in the World, I've started swearing in vilely mispronounced Finnish < 1312309580 681536 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/in/and/ < 1312309592 876311 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scandinavia outside the World. < 1312309610 798111 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type pseudophonetically < 1312309615 596761 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s\/in/s\/\\ Deewiant: Do you know of a Haskell reformatter tool, GPipe's code is really right-leaning and just hideous < 1312315258 278556 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a reddit thread about this just last week < 1312315266 478030 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does right-leaning mean help < 1312315290 100610 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: too much nesting of indentation levels, i assume < 1312315304 952791 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fascist? < 1312315339 353515 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/j31f4/is_there_a_haskell_code_formatter/ < 1312315351 442349 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(includes link to stackoverflow) < 1312315502 196414 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, thanks to Scandinavia in the World, I've started swearing in vilely mispronounced Finnish < 1312315514 939568 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perkele hakkapellittä! < 1312315531 799297 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming perkele isn't pronounced perk-ell-ay < 1312315553 350916 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not sure if that ä should be an a) < 1312315565 432550 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :perky-lay < 1312315574 259301 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i think that's about as close as you could expect from an englishman < 1312315592 953579 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the perk might need some work < 1312315602 433892 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Hakkapellittä" -- "without a hakkapelti". ITYMM "hakkapeliitta". < 1312315613 111766 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: quite possibly < 1312315632 338121 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but then it was supposed to be vilely mispronounced, anyway < 1312315633 978847 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not much of a swearword really. < 1312315637 781688 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1PjDNWFOAc < 1312315661 212708 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe not, but it sounds like one to a norwegian < 1312315674 819065 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dæven hakke og skalpere < 1312315699 375898 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to read that as "Does Haskell have Shakespeare?" < 1312315702 758539 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask how < 1312315751 323864 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Does Haskell have Shakepeare? < 1312315778 893303 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for replacing the "dæven" by a euphemism, i think that's the signature swearing style of an old norwegian comic character, "obersten" < 1312315810 677688 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shakespeare's page only has C and Perl implementations, no Haskell there. < 1312315835 373466 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A challenge! For a better programmer than I < 1312315887 470387 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i think your "than I" is actually grammatically incorrect in that position *MWAHAHAHA* < 1312315903 491410 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use any finnish word as a swear word (as long as no-one knows finnish) < 1312315908 333512 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b82jMIkZMv0#t=34s for example < 1312315935 894294 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's "for me", so it should be "for ... than me") < 1312315937 37518 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Olen käsine! Ei, olen kaksi käsineet! < 1312315962 621134 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/et!/ttä!/ < 1312315973 102237 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "kahdet käsineet". < 1312315977 580563 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh you _could_ think of it as eliding a final "am". hm... < 1312316029 38699 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am a glove! No, I am two gloves!" is my standard foreign phrase < 1312316066 164707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's "kaksi käsinettä"; the "kahdet käsineet" variant would be "two pairs of gloves". < 1312316084 274912 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eg er ein hanske! Nei, eg er to hanskar! < 1312316093 794006 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's your nynorsk) < 1312316104 346425 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "two sets of gloves" in general, but I guess you can assume they're pairs < 1312316132 389302 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was about to write the swedish, but half-way through realized I was writing it in english < 1312316154 907602 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jag är en handske! Nej, jag är två handskar! < 1312316169 396757 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think "hanska" is perhaps closer to "glove" maybe. Or a slightly less formal term anyway. (No points for guessing from where *that* word comes from.) < 1312316205 831845 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just the more informal variant < 1312316235 305172 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary translates "käsine" as "any garment used to protect a hand, such as glove or mitten", while hanska/hansikas is only "glove". < 1312316261 530286 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed I can imagine a non-glove "käsine". < 1312316286 363747 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedish has "vantar" for mittens and less formal gloves < 1312316301 988204 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vanttuut" < 1312316304 4825 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :less formal or technical, in case of e.g. surgical gloves < 1312316326 259767 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vanttuut ja lapaset. < 1312316369 402209 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"vanttuut /pl/ 1. (dialectal) One ore more pairs of knitted mittens or mitts. Singular form vantus is only rarely used." --wiktionary. Oo, it's quite comprehensive. < 1312316405 801931 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vott are you talking about < 1312316443 356340 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laughing at this headline: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14370878 < 1312316455 464614 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :though we actually call mittens something like thumbmittens in swedish < 1312316496 381498 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ég er hanska! Nei, ég tvær hanska! < 1312316534 786782 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The report has sparked anger from IE supporters, who have threatened AptiQuant with legal action. < 1312316536 959245 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For you Íslendingar < 1312316537 938919 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1312316568 72619 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: are you from iceland? < 1312316572 732380 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even a little < 1312316577 106286 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just studied it for a while < 1312316620 698043 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like it, though < 1312316624 364473 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you even allowed to quote things without following-up with a pun? < 1312316651 90127 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it started when the volcano was blowing up, and I wanted to learn how to pronounce its name properly < 1312316715 278380 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i cannot comment on that, i may be involved in a relevant class action suit < 1312316730 848908 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My translation's probably a bit off, really :| < 1312316764 455670 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: so from there you went to learning the whole language? wow... < 1312316785 164701 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't need a lot of motivation to learn a language :D < 1312316814 492609 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could be the next Tolkein! < 1312316823 72711 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tolkien, even < 1312316838 163744 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, definitely Tolkein. < 1312316846 829768 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who'd want to be Tolkien? < 1312316848 523237 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I once tried to learn Elvish when I was like 8, but I got bored. < 1312316855 935930 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: What with him being dead? Not me. < 1312316862 493398 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be missing an article for the "a glove" case there, but I don't know icelandic well enough to know if they use those the same way we do < 1312316864 784752 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit i may no longer be the most awesome /// programmer < 1312316874 41281 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it's saying "I am glove" < 1312316884 993344 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM GLOVE < 1312316888 609955 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM TOO GLOVE < 1312316915 972751 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that felt like it needed saying in all-caps) < 1312316922 429151 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too glove for my shirt, like the popular song goes. < 1312316955 985065 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC articles are a bit different in Icelandic. < 1312316957 415431 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Je suis trop gants pour ma chemise? < 1312317003 932461 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too gloves for my shirt. lol < 1312317013 600109 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just Tolkein, maybe the Tolkeist. < 1312317056 330890 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tolkzwei? < 1312317081 982937 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ég er hanska! Nei, ég tvær hanska! <-- isn't there an "er" missing in the last sentence? < 1312317120 174173 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ég er of hanska fyrir skyrtu mína. < 1312317155 694491 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: in any case istr icelandic has no indefinite article < 1312317243 799204 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Good point < 1312317252 201949 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I probably should have used tvö < 1312317271 88017 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. I can barely remember, anymore < 1312317274 326333 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: if you come to the next bostonhaskell, there's an icelandic dude < 1312317281 274752 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Shweet < 1312317284 612787 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to brush up < 1312317286 598889 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312317301 157559 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those leaves are getting annoying < 1312317302 650429 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a lot of use for Icelandic in the middle of nowhere where I am :D < 1312317400 912307 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'd have to be in the exact same middle of nowhere as iceland to find a use for it :P < 1312317428 816742 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wikipedia agrees with you < 1312317443 975094 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland has a comparitive population with Northumberland < 1312317531 770494 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland's awesome. I'd like to teach there < 1312317541 859869 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to teach Maths < 1312317569 744849 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the lava live and it loves me < 1312317622 533930 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Me, too < 1312317637 646038 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you said you want to teach Iceland! < 1312317642 551765 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland is not Maths! < 1312317684 384814 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been wondering if icelandic makes up its own math terms, and up to what level there are enough icelanders to do it... < 1312317739 350173 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sshh.. < 1312317742 700693 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: you should ask the icelandic dude what zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is in icelandic < 1312317743 961636 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may be listening in < 1312317787 514991 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They probably just reuse old words. There's some language purity movement to replace all loanwords with native Icelandic equivalents < 1312317808 724580 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: well it's that purity which makes it an interesting question, duh < 1312317809 432578 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one of those for English < 1312317823 645555 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm still not clear on what zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is in English :/ < 1312317828 119137 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: maybe he'll make one up on the spot < 1312317856 272239 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: "zygohistomorphic prepromorphism". hth, and congratulations on speaking a rampantly stealing language. < 1312317858 162516 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he'd probably just repeat it to me in english < 1312317877 386598 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :zygohistomorfisk prepromorfism < 1312317877 588185 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :/ < 1312317885 802443 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, "translated" into swedish < 1312317894 459594 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite what I meant, but I should have expected that < 1312317900 320138 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: *+e and you've got the norwegian < 1312317917 226946 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :-morfisme? < 1312317921 403978 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312317970 875058 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if it gets _really_ often used, maybe we'll change the z into an s. < 1312318036 958705 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, you do that funny respelling words the way they sound < 1312318074 250083 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well you changed the ph to f too < 1312318093 771496 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1312318338 931865 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312318353 885430 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the "clog" broken? < 1312318390 504214 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clogged < 1312318395 920939 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's too glove < 1312318406 6109 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on.. < 1312318406 435462 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too glove for this clog < 1312318422 956528 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inform 7 docs? < 1312318461 536919 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312318543 367646 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-13-219.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312318607 77231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Inform 7 docs? < 1312318617 178978 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just reminded me of them < 1312318631 220209 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1312318705 928733 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-13-219.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312318813 689603 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312318851 189486 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :english language would steal a word, and then if anyone else used it it would be called loaned from english < 1312318886 411333 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worked out why I was reminded of Inform 7 docs < 1312318889 228565 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Heatwave bone breaks clog hospital." < 1312318890 742842 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whaddayamean, we stole it. it's ours now." < 1312318906 204988 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finders keepers < 1312320220 522733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312320299 377336 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it too late to significantly change the Numberwang spec? < 1312320327 312629 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1312320340 770701 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they've already made many episodes of mitchell and webb with numberwang, too late to change now < 1312320355 294161 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1312320378 405691 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was referring to the one of the four+ esoteric programming languages by that name that I invented < 1312320411 661550 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is never too late < 1312320742 32714 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you invented four+ esoteric programming languages named numberwang i guess it won't really matter if you make one more. < 1312320755 716648 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four have been invented < 1312320757 759745 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One by me < 1312320765 544742 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312320766 836727 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as the total number of languages remains numberwang, all is well < 1312320776 584420 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is undefined < 1312320792 611890 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is useless, and is the only one thusfar implemented < 1312320800 35695 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!Numberwang 20 < 1312320823 242683 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is checking his home game books < 1312320830 304010 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye olde case sensitive bot < 1312320834 125366 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not numberwang < 1312320836 899883 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is a rather lame BF derivative < 1312320850 21329 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!numberwang 20 < 1312320852 9191 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's numberwang! < 1312320856 274303 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies < 1312320875 660699 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numberwang depends on more variables than a single number < 1312320896 120305 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever played the home edition? < 1312320913 930387 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I was once in the studio audience of the show < 1312320934 791253 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swV3E3HPQC4 < 1312321330 296811 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want < 1312321484 495334 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ikr < 1312321520 864810 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to use Template Haskell to implement rulebooks-based programming like Inform 7 does? < 1312321581 996492 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are duplicate definitions allowed in Haskell? < 1312321670 252510 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1312321715 524869 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um you cannot define the same identifier twice in the same scope < 1312321769 181973 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if the definitions are identical? < 1312321808 490353 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall it being allowed, so i would be surprised if it is supported < 1312321815 749906 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3; x = 3 in x < 1312321816 838310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Conflicting definitions for `x' < 1312321817 40648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bound at: :1:4 < 1312321817 40841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : help < 1312330593 493109 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 11 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1312330600 491195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is that the actual temperature where you are? < 1312330767 539851 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, pikhq_: There was a special in the new series... < 1312330792 558353 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that for some reason his DF fortress has no food. < 1312330806 160521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just wait for the tantrum spiral, then. < 1312330807 618295 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your Dwarf Fortress Fortress? < 1312330824 50473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, I decided that it was necessary for disambiguation. < 1312331114 108969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to dig through damp stone. < 1312331320 875386 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312332358 448921 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312334176 854594 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1312334186 947477 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312334277 908537 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312334480 38794 :cheater_!~ubuntu@g229064205.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312336098 481841 :comex!~ec2-user@ec2-67-202-46-7.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312337344 630020 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312338050 401108 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312338142 5139 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1312339145 282682 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1312340581 288134 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1312343226 815383 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312344881 878916 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: To bed! < 1312345350 108650 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-146.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312345350 535836 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-146.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1312345350 737484 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312346511 960537 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero < 1312346532 239333 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started making the prettyprinting literate Haskell program in TeX, now what I have so far it works. Now I have to make the other parts too. < 1312346578 753995 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312346721 58556 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312346889 836872 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin_ < 1312346930 90693 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312347162 569 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a name for a numbering system where every single positive integer has a distinct symbol? < 1312347185 230555 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary < 1312347190 492977 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1312347220 389955 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, its the extremme opposite of unary < 1312347261 670410 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary gives each positive integer a distinct symbol < 1312347306 216495 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought unary was where every positive integer got a different sized collection of the same symbol < 1312347327 126355 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka, n is n digits long < 1312347345 439868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary = tick marks. 1, 11, 111, 1111 < 1312347345 724180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Are you sure? < 1312347346 434978 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1312347346 886500 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm talking about where n is one digit long for all n < 1312347360 82244 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could call it base infinity < 1312347365 766666 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes < 1312347369 608922 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's talking about an infinite number of symbols. I don't think that has a name. < 1312347370 939199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yes it is wat I would think < 1312347373 55222 :copumpkin_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312347375 178066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: define a digit < 1312347381 873712 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually alphabet sets are restricted to be finite. < 1312347395 569757 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 can be taken to be a single symbol < 1312347403 915549 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's not. it's two.. < 1312347404 487802 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just happens to be a repitition of a subsymbol < 1312347407 578342 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the unary system. < 1312347419 500611 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: suppose I have two images < 1312347420 437837 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you know what i mean now < 1312347427 58488 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make a new image by putting them next to each other < 1312347433 635560 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the numbering system using an infinite alphabet < 1312347434 716727 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no because that requires an infinite alphabet which is dumb < 1312347448 793276 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not dumb < 1312347491 651060 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :becuase youll only ever need a finite subset of the digits, its basically the same as "base x, where x is the largest number you need right now" < 1312347507 207712 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbols aren't images though. You don't make new symbols from existing symbols. You could invent a similar algorithm for decimal system by saying that 23, 24, 25, etc are all distinct symbols. But we call these "symbols" strings, not symbols... < 1312347542 12726 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just saw a minecraft display system where binary numbers are split into separate symbols for each number, and the each segment of the display is wired to the symbols that need to drive that segment < 1312347583 348732 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i feel like that middle step probably has a name < 1312347598 773839 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its obviously modular to do as many different numbers as you need < 1312347695 993590 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are the symbols constructed. < 1312347718 82033 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the whole "base k" term implies a positional system, and I don't think it really counts when you only ever use one digit. But that's just an opinion. < 1312347722 958770 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :each is a wire < 1312347727 165514 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could link it < 1312347743 813116 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1 wire = 1, 2 wires = 2, ...? < 1312347751 492766 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i agree. which is why i originally asked < 1312347781 442054 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no, there is a wire for 1, a wire for 2, a wire for 3, etc. < 1312347841 190505 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one wire can be active at a time < 1312347894 152760 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a symbol here is "a collection of wires distinguished by the one that is active" < 1312347912 743274 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously every number has a different symbol < 1312348000 707709 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pythagoreans used a similar system "let k be symbolized by a line segment of length k" < 1312348163 26858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so the wires aren't really the symbols they just signify if a symbol is on or off. What are the symbols themselves? < 1312348183 646088 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... are they the symbols? < 1312348233 493485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in either case, I'd probably say that "baseless" is a good description of this numeral system. < 1312348255 616642 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is unary < 1312348256 515119 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the difference between a signifier of a symbol, and a symbol < 1312348258 797937 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know of an existed term, no. < 1312348266 515730 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking i agree with patashu < 1312348277 686701 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is all unary in disguise < 1312348282 772990 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not..... < 1312348296 602301 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to the system where you turn wire 1 on for 1, 1+2 on for 2, 1+2+3 on for 3... < 1312348298 264380 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unary < 1312348305 894715 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312348310 886705 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in unary, you take the length of all of your symbols and that is the number that it represents. This system does not work this way < 1312348319 726103 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have 3 symbols turned on and they would not represent 3. < 1312348339 606412 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the symbols could each represent a number greater than 1. < 1312348340 688852 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say "the distance in wires from the zero point to the active wire" < 1312348358 500088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether that space is filled with ones or zeroes is irrelevant < 1312348366 8848 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the greek system is unary too < 1312348378 432036 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so the symbols are added together? < 1312348390 98767 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they concatenate their length 1 tick marks end to end rather than side by side < 1312348451 360337 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it's base 1 but there is more than one symbol. < 1312348522 758837 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i think it is just that unary should best be understood as "a number represented by the appropriate measurement of a potentially infinitely long/detailed symbol" < 1312348597 765522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure unary just means that you have one arbitrarily chosen symbol that represents 1, and each number N is represented by repeating the symbol N times. Changing the definition would make it inconsistent with the rest of bases. < 1312348601 893942 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for clarifying my thoughts < 1312348618 701853 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a non-positional system of Greek numerals; they have separate digits for 1, 2, ..., 9, 10, 20, ..., 90, 100, 200, ..., 900, and then you denote numbers by a group of 1, 2 or 3 of those. But that's not quite "one symbol for each number", and I don't think it has any special name either. < 1312348622 482314 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary is already inconsistent with the other bases < 1312348636 510040 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so? < 1312348654 762446 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, traditionally there is no 0. < 1312348671 724126 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the length of a base n number is log(x)/log(n) < 1312348690 910450 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for n=1, this comes out undefined < 1312348752 116462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Base-k is supposed to have digits from 0 to k-1; so "base 1" should have just a 0; also the value of a string is d_0*b^n + d_1*b^(n-1) + ... + d_n*b^0, so if b=0 and d_n=0 for all d_n, 0 is the only number you can represent. < 1312348778 378110 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :People still call it base-1 though. < 1312348782 741568 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the choice of symbol is irrelevant. 1 is the single symbol for most unary systems, you could use 0 as well. < 1312348832 663574 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you see again unary is inconsistent with other bases < 1312348844 548153 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there is no zero, as I said. < 1312348863 996614 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other bases, the positions of symbols matters, in unary, only the "length" of the string matters < 1312348866 977244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, you're entitled to your opinion; I believe saying "base K" should imply you have a positional symbol with that base, and the value of a string is computed by adding multiplied copies of base^n. That's not what happens with unary. < 1312348908 768705 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I sort-of guess it works with powers of one. < 1312348920 228507 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why one can write unary numbers as line segments of a prescribed length < 1312348991 242507 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that qhat quintopia is talking about isn't the standard definition of the unary number system, in the strictest sense. What he's talking about eitherh as a different name, is a modification of unary, or has not been named. < 1312349022 466041 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said yourself the choice of symbol doesnt matter CakeProphet < 1312349045 830130 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but unary has /one/ symbol. two if you use a special zero symbol. < 1312349047 252585 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could call unary bijective base-1 though. < 1312349050 581378 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312349086 902120 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if instead of zeroes or ones, i choose as my symbol "the number of non-wire regions between wires before the first active wire" < 1312349095 394119 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just as good as 0 or 1 < 1312349106 840511 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :each nonwire region < 1312349151 503941 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, the symbols dont have to be the same all the way through < 1312349174 506365 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, the length of a string over the english alphabet < 1312349200 419924 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a garble of a's and b's and c's is just as good as a long line of 1's < 1312349211 919647 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :since only the length defines the number < 1312349222 526470 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay sleeptiems < 1312349231 421433 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that does sound quite similar to unary at least. I was going by an earlier explanation that didn't seem to fit unary. < 1312349711 869697 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Modern fonts does not have the "double-sharp" sign < 1312350265 522650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join . replicate (length "111") $ length "11111" < 1312350266 375092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1312350266 576979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1312350281 911485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join . replicate (length "111") $ "11111" < 1312350284 138547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "111111111111111" < 1312350351 788672 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :division will be a bit more difficult. < 1312350377 908597 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer division, specifically. < 1312350395 709196 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which brings up an interesting question. If extend unary to the real numbers, then what is 1.111 < 1312350412 898932 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that represents anything. < 1312350423 246024 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :.1 is 1 < 1312350424 522063 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1312350432 561659 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because .1 in binary is 1/2, .1 in ternary is 1/3 and so on < 1312350436 256646 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so .1 in unary is... 1/1! < 1312350441 978462 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::eng101: < 1312350455 741840 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the unary system can't describe all of the real numbers. < 1312350468 455834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only integers. < 1312350501 592626 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup! < 1312350530 688349 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as places left of the decimal point are all equivalent, places right of the decimal point are all equivalent < 1312350539 718394 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1312350565 525059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary is essentially devoid of place value at all. < 1312350686 34465 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah o.O < 1312350689 660996 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking at the spectogram for this song < 1312350690 449631 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION np: 12120. Klippa - [So #01] The Tree [01:45/02:38] < 1312350692 927819 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has poplar trees in it < 1312350695 134296 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's a coincident < 1312350697 947749 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coincidence < 1312350823 753406 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidence. It's probably just heavier in the bass frequencies. < 1312350877 888476 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll show you a picture < 1312350897 958915 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it could not be coincidence, actually. There is an Aphex Twin track where Richard James encoded a picture of his face into the spectrogram (when view on a logarithmic scale) < 1312350910 816734 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*viewed < 1312351137 471669 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Mechadragon/thetree.png < 1312351146 258274 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see it? < 1312351151 191874 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a little forest of 8 poplars < 1312351680 810344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are quite a lot of "things hidden in spectrogram" songs, I believe. < 1312351697 567318 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That image looks quite coincidental though. < 1312351775 402305 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least something that could easily be coincidental. < 1312353497 775092 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1312354953 250016 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1312356060 343569 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312356658 371896 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-211-26.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312356658 611417 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-33.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312357757 473276 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1312357874 595360 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs186230.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312359050 822307 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1312359326 617510 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1312359440 402390 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312359465 278395 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312360895 938729 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312361772 407802 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312361810 939384 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1312361954 473306 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's up? < 1312362077 993435 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much, I guess < 1312362120 16908 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it all fell down. < 1312362181 432238 :Deewiant_!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi NICK :Deewiant < 1312362230 927504 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm now experimenting with clients < 1312362372 157562 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312362606 504196 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such thing as bad advertising < 1312363006 96211 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just worked out I'll probably be in London on my birthday < 1312363049 265483 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll be on TV the day afterwards < 1312363122 599823 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in jail the day after that? < 1312363131 843436 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like quite a celebration. < 1312363209 383023 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE SAME BUILDING WHERE RUPERT MURDOCH GOT PIED! < 1312363241 687868 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I need breakfast. < 1312363350 610386 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having breakfast now < 1312363651 219075 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had breakfast < 1312363787 946385 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quick breakfast. < 1312363818 569358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A multi-level breakfast can breakfast through any number of surrounding loops. < 1312364120 364643 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-216-33.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312364124 882394 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312364572 22738 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1312364710 707418 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency < 1312364740 987043 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I must leave < 1312364747 19546 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: He's a big quitter he is < 1312364883 339945 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312365157 19875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the haps my friends. < 1312365360 423480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today it's been mostly about breakfasts. < 1312366789 42110 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1312366856 27488 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate jargon < 1312366872 79703 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i mean, notations and jargons < 1312367040 66070 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it brings me to a crushing halt reading a mathematical wikipedia article < 1312367042 552772 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rewriting_system#Abstract_rewriting_systems @ "is the transitive closure of , where is the identity relation, i.e. is the smallest preorder (reflexive and transitive relation) containing . It is also called the reflexive transitive closure of ." < 1312367144 740110 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the logical way to go forward is to examine exactly which terms i cannot understand < 1312367381 574205 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moving on < 1312367686 916235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312368571 206731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it brings me to a crushing halt reading a mathematical wikipedia article < 1312368588 582632 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312368590 446519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes those are ridiculous even when you _do_ know math < 1312368608 307584 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i exaggerated a bit. and typed out the answer :D < 1312368618 268609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312368630 595117 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously it appears the way to proceed is to list the unknown terms < 1312368641 525974 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to research them < 1312368656 306900 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something i was probably told in school < 1312368703 40593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1312369306 157511 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312369307 664417 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312369316 103381 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love terminology < 1312369321 854208 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets us say complex things quickly < 1312369324 30865 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312369328 662341 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :transitive closure especially < 1312369332 115518 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever made that up is a genius < 1312369337 216880 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1312369374 396837 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transitive closure? < 1312369417 720743 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312369528 763916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of a way of testing whether a number is even or odd in just 3 cells of bf. basically turning n,0,0 -> n, n%2, 0 or something similar which can be used to decide whether to quit a loop < 1312369535 239132 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1312369574 789131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, i'm having trouble getting my fractran encoding to _halt_ :P) < 1312369657 977109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks [[Brainfuck algorithms]] < 1312369678 879496 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the body's healing process is insane < 1312369694 429066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 3 cells? no < 1312369729 58540 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they not teach the Trivium, anymore? < 1312369788 314517 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wait do you mean 3 cells on a tape? < 1312369796 333243 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312369806 436955 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312369807 861985 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312369825 195993 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dandy: there is no teacher:> < 1312369856 124391 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do an evenness test in 5.. hmm < 1312369883 854832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i'm pretty sure i could do it in 4 :P < 1312369892 714704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's no fun :( < 1312369903 978406 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh actually I can do it in 3 < 1312369909 109591 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Le sigh < 1312369911 289546 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,n,0->n,n-1,0 < 1312369929 572155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's important not to lose the n itself, at least if it's odd < 1312369935 98345 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312369947 497922 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually can still do it < 1312369952 422955 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,n,0->n,n,n-1 < 1312369960 984376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably in any case < 1312369965 705550 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312370011 921885 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternately subtract two from the second and third cells < 1312370033 244891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand what you mean < 1312370049 594977 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,n,0->n,n,n-1->n,n-2.n-1 etc. < 1312370077 534293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how to achieve n,n,n-1 btw < 1312370093 907764 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right.. < 1312370100 900709 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1312370107 721725 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312370168 533755 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au NICK :itidus20 < 1312370194 868682 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh easy < 1312370203 103039 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,0,0->n,n,0 < 1312370229 760844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's ok < 1312370244 291736 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then until the second cell is 0, subtract one from the second cell and if (the third cell is 0) then (add 2 to the third cell) then subtract 1 from the third cell < 1312370262 249940 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get n,0,n%2 < 1312370283 316732 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can apply this generally to take arbitrary modulus < 1312370315 831899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um that "if (the third cell is 0)" kind of thing is actually a stopping point < 1312370337 815200 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it backwards then < 1312370349 836434 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (the third cell is not 0) then (subtract 2 from it) then add 1 to it < 1312370362 91191 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that works only for base 2 < 1312370382 725679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not base 2, it's unbounded < 1312370396 996771 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean taking %2 < 1312370400 672200 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1312370401 528716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm trying to avoid negatives < 1312370415 667801 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1312370445 481660 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems arbitrary < 1312370454 159434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a direct improvement on the previous 5 cell algorithm, which i don't think needs them < 1312370462 40406 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1312370468 53714 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :using negatives is not a flaw < 1312370509 259971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case i'm not sure your method works even with negatives. < 1312370527 409867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :recall we don't _have_ "if" as a primitive. < 1312370569 897293 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need to preserve the number? < 1312370571 114684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be done with loops, and it's awkward to fit things in just 3 cells < 1312370581 876929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes. at least if it's odd. < 1312370594 514546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably always, since it would be the final program result. < 1312370615 921086 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1312370629 815108 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312370663 146906 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: given my pointer at n < 1312370719 784111 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :>[-]>[-]<<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<[->[--]+<] < 1312370737 12754 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaves me pointing at the 0 in n,0,n%2 < 1312370773 351684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1312370808 157697 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can shorten it a bit < 1312370808 598614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's 0,n,*n before the [-<<+>>]<[->[--]+<] right < 1312370818 840645 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312370831 347225 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first block just moves you to *n,n,0 < 1312370862 801651 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second block flips the third cell from 0 to -1 as you decrement the second < 1312370863 486587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and actually n,*n,0 before the [->[--]+<] < 1312370872 458300 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312370896 531899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i can do moving things around myself ;P < 1312370906 61375 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1312370913 140009 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[->+>+<<]>+[>[--<--<++>>]<][<->]+ could work, haven't checked it < 1312370919 668613 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last block is the only one actually involved in the calculation < 1312370934 398186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: erm [->[--]+<] doesn't halt if n is odd < 1312370947 780805 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what are you talking about < 1312370954 432250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh < 1312370960 169015 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... < 1312370963 277026 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I got that wrong < 1312370977 395112 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312370984 456026 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be easy if I had another 0 to work with < 1312370987 944835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i misinterpreted, but is still expect that [--] to sometimes not halt < 1312370990 916163 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312370991 904122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you don't say :P < 1312371003 109997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i < 1312371003 395447 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you need a finite-length program too? < 1312371026 933741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes... < 1312371035 311215 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I take it relying on wraparound is bad? < 1312371049 669683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very bad, unboundedness is essential here < 1312371075 256071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to a proof bf is TC with just 3 unbounded cells < 1312371085 387379 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312371088 42961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be a < 1312371097 782647 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to ask for context, then I got it < 1312371204 300491 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm going to bed but will think about it < 1312371215 945020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1312371354 982590 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait changed my mind I have it < 1312371362 141957 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :given *n,0,0 < 1312371370 851818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that [<->] looks rather unlikely, it'll either infloop or do nothing < 1312371458 271265 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :[->+<[->>+<<]] >> [-<-<+>>] < [-<+>>+<] > < 1312371468 202639 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you n,0,*n%2 < 1312371468 969493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i think your main loop also infloops if n is odd < 1312371482 243948 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :first block gives you 0,n/2+1,n/2 < 1312371495 537606 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :second block gives you n-n%2,n%2,0 < 1312371509 801702 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :third block gives you n,0,n%2 < 1312371515 168092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm n/2 as in integer division? < 1312371517 598602 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312371526 520247 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait fuck no < 1312371528 771139 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffff < 1312371528 973378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that rather _obliterate_ whether n is even or odd < 1312371539 477682 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you brainfuck < 1312371556 500570 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1312371559 360032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad to see you are getting the genuine fucked experience :P < 1312371559 785364 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to bed < 1312371569 133683 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312371581 222776 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This should be simple. < 1312371585 892369 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't this simple. < 1312371608 469024 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /win 7 < 1312371611 57995 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1312371613 235933 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :something < 1312371622 447937 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k actually going back to bed this time < 1312371639 317591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm afraid i don't have that window, coppro. unless it's some secret i haven't heard about. < 1312371676 451887 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i have frequently wondered why irssi always makes an empty /win 3 < 1312371919 162552 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: those dont look much like trees to me. you should check ou the spectrum of hildegard westerkamp's "beneath the forest floor" for a real image of a forest. it's so uncanny, it's surely intentional. < 1312371963 469823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: in fact i made that odd/even distinction in the first place to manage to get an extra bit of "are we finished yet" information out of each applied fractran rule. the problem now is just actually extracting that information again on the top level loop... < 1312371988 690732 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds like you saved a layout with a window open to a channel on a net you don't connect to. do another /layout save and it probably won't anymore. < 1312372032 752765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i haven't visited non-freenode for years, if ever :P < 1312372058 463914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's try it anyhow < 1312372066 631988 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to think about this differently < 1312372082 821225 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have three variables, a, b, and c < 1312372105 132665 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can add or subtract a constant from any of these variable < 1312372115 589281 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: probably a good idea < 1312372130 401301 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we can start a loop that loops while a variable is not 0 < 1312372165 303496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that same variable must be 0 when we end (i don't think there's enough room to do unbalanced loops usefully) < 1312372197 332239 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1312372228 215476 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable a is equal to an arbitary number, b and c are zero < 1312372246 816488 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call the number initially in a n < 1312372264 556053 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we want is one variable to hold n, and another to hold n%2 < 1312372281 306808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, let's not exclude unbalanced loops completely. the problem would be finding out where you are afterwards. < 1312372288 369562 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312372295 244948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb boily < 1312372679 259925 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: is your goal to determine if a value is even or odd? < 1312372712 867434 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1312372721 461549 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In three cells in brainfuck < 1312372808 150262 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know its possible? < 1312372812 718416 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1312372822 520741 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is with 5 cels < 1312372825 387156 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cells < 1312372837 100357 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only method i could think of needs four < 1312372854 295941 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1312372855 827217 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1312372874 330415 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four would be easy < 1312372903 456494 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of a way of doing it in four cells too < 1312372916 614604 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a good problem < 1312372950 807456 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :n,0,0,0. add 2 to b and 1 to c and after each addition check to see which one equals a using d < 1312372955 80455 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not sure if that translates into bf < 1312373021 358262 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly NICK :FireFly < 1312373509 384579 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I think I have an idea < 1312373601 412703 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312373669 868667 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312373852 586510 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312374183 378829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes i believe 4 should be easy. (basically there is then room to include an extra bit of information from the loop i'm using for each fractran rule. although there may be an even simpler way.) < 1312374352 27190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PatashuPikachuRe: the thing is translating to bf frequently means adding an extra cell for flow control... < 1312374507 98286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops now i'm wondering if _that_ is working again. oh well. < 1312374695 96281 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so I have what appears to be a solution < 1312374865 272227 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. dammmmmmmmit < 1312374871 89508 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's tricky it's like, one scratch cell per conditional deep you go < 1312374877 276734 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :where conditional includes things like moving < 1312374921 342593 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no this is right < 1312374978 884401 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm k so loops that don't evenly affect the IP hurt my mind < 1312375004 164684 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1312375013 284258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, also they're hard to use here < 1312375032 734179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then maybe it could be essential < 1312375243 887230 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure it can be done with them < 1312375255 327741 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just need to figure out how to recenter < 1312375264 108717 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns on light and pulls out whiteboard < 1312375373 511368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well trouble is if you have two cells that need to have an essentially arbitrary value, and the zero you left the loop through, then it seems very hard to check where you are. only if there are two zero cells does it seem reasonable, but can you use that case.. < 1312375390 813415 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I see how to do it < 1312375403 483007 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will pseudocode because I need to be up in a few hours < 1312375466 274712 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is on the edge of his seat < 1312375472 341898 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you have an input stack and an output stack < 1312375485 347011 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :let n be the input stack and m be the output stack < 1312375533 456259 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had a rather stupid idea < 1312375554 282066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait fuck thta gives no termination codition < 1312375573 440722 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I think what you really want to rely on is the position of the stacks < 1312375590 790196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack of unaries? < 1312375597 110434 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312375601 869959 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than using value < 1312375704 338444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, afaict you cannot actually check the position if both "stacks" are filled (i.e. two cells both have arbitrarily large values) < 1312375854 801353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the end of a loop, you will have either *0,m,n; m,*0,n; or m,n,*0; and neither pair of these can be distinguished < 1312375897 6663 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm envisioning is [ (move 1 from n to m) [ (move 1 from n to m and something else) ] (something) ] < 1312375951 657863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's essentially the idea i am trying to use for the _inner_ fractran loops. i just cannot see a way to get the information out of the loop... < 1312375960 331240 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractran loop? < 1312375983 865342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes, the idea is to convert fractran to brainfuck < 1312376033 456022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should write that part down properly < 1312376161 137769 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you write down properly "the idea is to convert fractran to brainfuck" < 1312376164 730438 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1312376206 649568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the inner loop structure for that, which i thought i had clear enough idea of but i'm suddenly unsure. < 1312376452 288912 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1312376465 791232 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :start with *n,0,m < 1312376476 318243 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to *n-1,0,m+1 < 1312376526 195802 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do a if n-1 is nonzero, you go to m,*0,n-1 < 1312376564 399895 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I had it backwards the IP doesn't work that way < 1312376567 407616 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1312376594 2684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this loop supposed to be unbalanced? < 1312376599 992382 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312376602 899702 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1312376616 856278 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not necessarily < 1312376617 487180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well looks possible so far < 1312376644 659574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are either at *0,0,m+1 or m,*0,n-1 < 1312376645 602068 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait yes you can do this < 1312376647 896814 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1312376666 85176 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now go to 0,*0,m+1 or m,0,*n-1 < 1312376673 232245 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the cell pointed to is nonzero, move left < 1312376691 780801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that synchronizes < 1312376695 325701 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sorry replace m,*0,n-1 with m+2,*0,n-1 < 1312376699 386598 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my stupid idea was a programming language that spews brainfuck code and immediately interprets it. < 1312376725 510505 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This allows for infinite-length programs < 1312376738 113109 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait this has the same problem an earlier idea did in that you can't tell when you're done the loop < 1312376777 454190 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, hmm < 1312376826 696749 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you then go right and subtract one, you have 0,0,*m or m+2,0,*n-2 < 1312376869 558747 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n-2 might be zero < 1312376884 491853 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you want to end the loop if that or the far left cell is 0 < 1312376937 580816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312376972 84730 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha there's a way and I'm actually sure this time < 1312377022 299900 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :start at 0,m,n. Go to *n-1,m+1,0 and branch < 1312377049 917960 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you took the branch, go to *0,m+2,n-2 < 1312377069 724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's still balanced < 1312377110 407193 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :add one to each cell < 1312377119 281241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them? < 1312377138 596780 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err don't < 1312377146 390919 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, go right one cell. if nonzero go right again < 1312377182 227686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that runs off the tape < 1312377201 787816 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn < 1312377204 171948 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :damndamndamn < 1312377212 548060 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking brainfuck < 1312377236 730130 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can shift columns to get that algorithm anyway? < 1312377266 817244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, I think I'm going to not delete http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:Icornellhoffmane until elliott gets a chance to see it < 1312377275 479215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because it looks like a parody of spam rather than actual spam < 1312377297 679384 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1312377301 288078 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes ais523 said "not" < 1312377336 995627 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312377462 65246 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the behaviour of brainfuck if you run off the edge of the tape? < 1312377468 449072 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :segfault? loop? ignore? < 1312377479 642902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312377493 448107 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1312377530 765995 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation dependant < 1312377537 958279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PatashuPikachuRe: i'm pretty sure all of those options will have been tried < 1312377550 949957 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures it's undefined behavior < 1312377675 796124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312377687 619377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : off the left edge, it should crash < 1312377690 448266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't go off the rightedge < 1312377693 69906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right edge < 1312377695 724347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there isn't one < 1312377745 751431 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :from *0,m+2,n-2 and *0,0,m+1 go right, if nonzero then swap the first two columns and then swap the right two columns < 1312377756 29371 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1312377759 496361 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :swap is a bad term < 1312377763 517087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: original bf had a 30k or so limit < 1312377764 975316 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :move each column left < 1312377771 711287 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fine because the left column is 0 < 1312377774 908743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that was a bug < 1312377800 841384 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case _this_ problem has tape length 3, and don't you dare leave it. < 1312377942 130382 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What are you basing that assessment on? The original brainfuck-2.lha:README file says "The 30000 array elements". < 1312377980 938542 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha wait < 1312377987 945697 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail < 1312377993 310197 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out how to loop only if you got to 0 < 1312378003 723132 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful but wrong < 1312378011 733662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think the spec has mutated over time < 1312378018 567202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the original interp retroactively buggy < 1312378047 13515 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you in need of a negation operator? :P < 1312378064 597611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat < 1312378074 743173 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Who died and made you a spec-maker?" (IOW, if there's no de jure or de facto standard, I don't see how you'd get to arbitrarily pick one.) < 1312378175 78211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm < 1312378185 775197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't more or less every article on BF say that it's Turing-complete? < 1312378189 881130 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can make it loop if one, but not two, columns are nonzero < 1312378193 163327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's that that retroactively changed the spec < 1312378225 154274 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That doesn't mean it unambiguously changes the spec to have an unbounded tape; it could as easily retroactively change it to have unbounded cells instead. < 1312378234 323709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i'm afraid the reverse would be more impressive < 1312378237 664517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suppose so < 1312378242 799514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1312378251 470283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :majority vote of implementations gives it 8-bit cells, at least < 1312378253 825619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: misread you. hm, interesting... < 1312378257 812840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm aware that that's not completely standard < 1312378271 247389 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The brainfuck language uses a simple machine model consisting of the program and instruction pointer, as well as an array of at least 30,000 byte cells initialized to zero; --" <-- wikipedia, the final arbitrator of truth and justice. < 1312378301 352160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that would indeed make things easier. < 1312378330 411753 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Aways.) < 1312378355 82452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION originally misparsed that as a typo for "always" < 1312378377 850022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um it wasn't? < 1312378386 702522 :Tritonio!Tritonio@93.182.185.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312378394 780717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think it's more likely to mean "I am away, at least for a while" < 1312378546 822145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway you're welcome to try to implement n,0,0 -> n,0,n%2 in 3-cell unbounded bf as well :P < 1312378610 785409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1312378625 656642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for %2 in gcc-bf, I just multiply by 128, then check zeroness < 1312378632 256891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bu that requires 8-bit bounded cells < 1312378675 717927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, no can do < 1312378745 145870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use repeated negation with unbounded cells, but I'm not sure if three cells is enough < 1312378784 533263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i got an idea, what if you calculated n/2 first... < 1312378808 201926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can get n,0,(n/2)*2 < 1312378867 593838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually scratch that, you can directly get n%2,n/2,0 < 1312378904 831306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't need a temporary to swap a cell with a known zero cell in BF (although you need to know its sign in unbounded BF, as always) < 1312378914 872836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from that i think you can get to n,0,n%2 < 1312378944 239871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well i'm assuming nonnegative so far < 1312378952 289438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to do a Minsky machine with three cells? < 1312378959 698662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just realised what the conversation's probably about < 1312378984 7541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractran, actually, which is just a simplified version of that 1-register division machine that's mentioned on the Minsky machine page < 1312379027 331128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and which is afaiu part of the proof that minsky machines only need 2 registers) < 1312379096 344619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically to get from the 1-register minsky machine to bf you want to include the machine state in the register, and suddenly you're _very_ close to fractran. < 1312379150 647517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-minsky, although it was probably invented by minsky < 1312379214 477359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just use the BF IP to record the machine state? < 1312379244 331513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe but the fractran control flow is so much easier :P < 1312379314 280746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that given that you need mod-2 and mod-3 already, mod-other-primes is probably not too difficult < 1312379444 893334 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312379491 401920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that assuming my ideas work, the actual fractran rules _don't_ need to put the mod in a cell, keeping track of _that_ is handled by BF IP. but there is this little snag at the end of the program, where the test _does_ need to be put in a cell so that the main loop can test it to exit. that one needs only a mod 2 test, not general primes. at least that's my idea and why i asked the channel. < 1312379665 19477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess my real question is "how do you exit a loop only when a cell n is even, without clobbering it if it isn't?" but i think that's pretty much equivalent to calculating n%2 anyway. < 1312379756 519900 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just solved the 3-cell parity problem. took long enough :/ < 1312379765 369931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! < 1312379800 636151 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wont spoil. dont have time to right now. < 1312379837 960638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. i have to leave in a moment myself anyhow. < 1312379932 672099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1312380101 742397 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1312380352 617649 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312380449 393312 :PatashuPikachuRe!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312380786 660705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312380833 994614 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1312380845 860731 :Tritonio!Tritonio@93.182.185.78 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1312381089 467429 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312381536 753384 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312381710 761410 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312382153 729573 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1312382673 142925 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312383376 166739 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?41081-CARCINOgeneticist-More-like...-oh-wait.&p=5406631&viewfull=1#post5406631 *facepalm* (Homestuck spoilers) < 1312383707 762086 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312383923 688917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312383935 400637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312384058 36855 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384139 867355 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312384140 107134 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312384175 368113 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384257 789245 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384554 452897 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312384577 210674 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384651 854059 :GameOverR!~Rim@197.1.39.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384706 201719 :GameOverR!~Rim@197.1.39.249 PART :#esoteric < 1312384752 850489 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312384918 954192 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312384920 382322 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312384930 412724 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384930 614418 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312384952 467600 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312385136 324280 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312385429 384225 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312385429 625707 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312385453 156245 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312385786 826616 :cheater__!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312386092 804001 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312386949 25504 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1312387699 612261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312387794 39939 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312387994 980323 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozqfhvqwawiahwix QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312388013 982056 :jix_!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312388051 899568 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312388059 192719 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312388328 898166 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312388872 983037 :iamcal!~u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qlsncssuzzdmqqmg JOIN :#esoteric < 1312389174 962379 :iamcal!~u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qlsncssuzzdmqqmg QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312389863 51110 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312389872 489550 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312389907 753650 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgcnprtrgqquoobb JOIN :#esoteric < 1312390794 512542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312391064 94791 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1312391721 897818 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mikä. < 1312391839 818429 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mikä on mikä? < 1312392690 785924 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mika on Häkkinen. < 1312392713 941380 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1312392732 141428 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mikä on "ne panee koiriaan ihan oikeasti"? < 1312392741 874985 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They're really fucking their dogs." < 1312392754 968727 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. What sort of word is "koiriaan"? < 1312392800 500841 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's "koiria -an", isn't it. < 1312392806 919699 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312392838 120573 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "koira" is the nominative case for "dog". < 1312392880 125113 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312392893 872488 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1312392904 411536 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312392910 299299 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1312392936 17651 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Guest47670 < 1312392976 301089 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it possibly should be "koiriansa" in formal written text, and what you have there is a bit of a colloquialism maybe. Since "their dogs" would be "heidän koiransa", and then, uh, is it the partitive case? I just speak the language, sorry. < 1312393085 850565 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, ...Klingon? < 1312393091 58274 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish. < 1312393105 415696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312393131 681251 :Guest47670!Gregor@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1312393142 718299 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there it is: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-an#Usage_notes "(third-person possessive suffix variant): When the third-person suffix -nsa is appended to non-nominative noun forms that end in a single -a (those that are in singular and plural inessive, elative, adessive, ablative, essive and abessive and plural partitive and singular partitive ending with -ta), the S and A are very often omitted from the suffix and the last A of the case suffix preceding the r < 1312393142 920829 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :emaining N is doubled — resulting in this -an. In standard Finnish, both the "full" form and the shortened form are acceptable (cf. -nsä). This same omission takes very often place also in the nominal verb forms used in shortened sentences (see the meanings of -nsa) and in the adverbs requiring this suffix:" < 1312393158 388873 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They even use the dog example. < 1312393301 74837 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "koiriansa -> koiriaan" and it's the third-person possessive-suffixed partitive case. I couldn't really even begin to explain why nominative -> partitive in this case goes "koiransa" -> "koiriansa" when normally the partitive suffix is -(t)a. (E.g. "koira" -> "koiraa" in the simplest case.) < 1312393612 159401 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you begin to explain why the partitive plural is "koiria"? :P < 1312393704 255712 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes. Then I guess "ihan oikeasti" is just an intensifier. < 1312393719 972702 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's pretty much like "-- for real". < 1312393751 52983 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wanted to ask that phrase, would it be "ihan oikeastiko"? < 1312393766 303616 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could ask that, yes. < 1312393798 56648 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even just ask "oikeesti?" with the suitable intonation when speaking. < 1312393840 924417 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just asked "ko?", I suppose people would suspect that you're asking whether the ko rule applies. < 1312393880 70097 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what I'd suspect; it would be a bit weird thing to say. Maybe that. < 1312393895 443334 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would make the perfect programming language, in your eyes? < 1312393934 76439 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: having all necessary features and lacking all unnecessary features. < 1312394035 790705 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should have a static typing system that's really fucking expressive. < 1312394090 782374 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vitun expressive ihan oikeasti. < 1312394233 674509 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define expressive? < 1312394302 782622 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it should be able to define types such as "valid strategy for playing Euchre". < 1312394337 662333 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, I suppose, a function taking a Euchre situation and returning an action valid in that situation. < 1312394446 12404 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, I think there's really one feature an "esoteric API" ought to have: the ability to dynamically link libraries. < 1312394782 636500 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I wonder, how much information does a dynamic library usually contain about the functions within it? Is it just a list of addresses, or do you also know the calling convention and number of arguments? < 1312394848 763385 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Windows, where multiple calling conventions are common, the names are mangled differently based on the convention. < 1312394852 512953 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: It's just addresses. < 1312394893 544565 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. < 1312394901 739380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do some deducing based on the mangling type. But mostly it's just symbols-to-addresses. < 1312394921 219453 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also deduce whether something is a function or data. < 1312394998 277536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if any debugging info formats include much metadata. Source locations and all that, at least. < 1312395073 234655 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess dynamically linking libraries is not really enough; you must also be able to call the functions in the libraries you just linked. < 1312395140 813863 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be mostly left up to the esoteric program itself, and you could just have API functions like "stick this stuff into these registers, push that stuff onto the stack, and call him". < 1312395190 81225 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Those generally *do* include type metadata. < 1312395198 72124 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312395208 481076 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of why debugging symbols take quite a bit of space. < 1312395225 790147 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Windows name mangling for stdcall functions also include the number of argument bytes the function pops off the stack, possibly because that's one calling convention which breaks really badly if the caller and callee disagree about the number of arguments. < 1312395568 34573 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312395589 466494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1312395591 255465 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1312395594 866724 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312395600 57870 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312396153 350734 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312396331 470578 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312396756 885795 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show test < 1312396757 313998 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a user interpreter! < 1312396762 675020 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sanetemp < 1312396763 20291 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" < 1312396765 47369 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show insanetemp < 1312396765 388273 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?9*5/32+p" < 1312396774 933696 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show nop < 1312396775 219113 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a user interpreter! < 1312396791 139545 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp cat < 1312396791 425697 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​There is already an interpreter for sanetemp! < 1312396792 471344 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 5 < 1312396793 923023 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-15.0 < 1312396794 199021 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1312396810 305819 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp -40 < 1312396810 734957 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc: stack empty < 1312396822 507398 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312396826 767028 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 100 < 1312396827 195313 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :37.7 < 1312396839 713228 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insanetemp 0 < 1312396840 141025 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :32.0 < 1312396858 668279 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 100000000000000000000000000 < 1312396859 96538 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :55555555555555555555555537.7 < 1312396867 221899 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a sane tempature. You lie. < 1312396877 61303 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 20 < 1312396877 633827 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-6.6 < 1312396880 371467 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 30 < 1312396880 941533 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-1.1 < 1312397028 211501 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397028 640677 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397046 486641 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp "1k?9*5/459-p" < 1312397046 914124 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter _1k_9_5_459_p_ does not exist! < 1312397055 138088 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?9*5/459-p" < 1312397055 564180 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397071 697207 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397072 259299 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-271.8 < 1312397089 437367 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397089 722686 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397137 957034 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?9*5/459 67 100/++p" < 1312397138 292796 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397147 221094 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397147 791859 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :646.8 < 1312397163 132374 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312397167 105323 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397167 476243 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397173 649508 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?9*5/459.67+p" < 1312397173 934157 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397176 746512 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397177 123747 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :646.87 < 1312397180 496692 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp -40 < 1312397181 157965 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc: stack empty < 1312397186 673868 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "?" is going to have trouble with negative numbers < 1312397187 531324 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp _40 < 1312397188 101594 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :387.67 < 1312397209 359918 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insanetemp 387.67 < 1312397209 900108 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :729.8 < 1312397223 39939 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397223 325384 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397224 165735 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?459.67-5*9/p" < 1312397224 546283 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397226 833574 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397227 380788 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-197.5 < 1312397230 451325 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1312397234 759939 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about dc < 1312397238 688007 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp sanetemp < 1312397238 943229 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp deleted. < 1312397240 33105 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp sanetemp sh dc -e "1k?459.67+5*9/p" < 1312397240 319045 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter sanetemp installed. < 1312397242 84215 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 104 < 1312397242 656062 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :313.1 < 1312397773 145494 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot responds to PM y'know < 1312397806 260851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : dc: stack empty < 1312397806 462994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1312397817 361380 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 40_ < 1312397817 789801 :EgoBot!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :255.3 < 1312397844 163111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1312397846 259354 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid dc. < 1312398220 685365 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312398498 429492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312398836 984335 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Well, I'm now experimenting with clients < 1312398838 445378 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :558) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients < 1312398846 936069 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did that wrong < 1312398851 298204 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I remove that? < 1312398880 438380 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :try `delquote, if it works < 1312398881 972626 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 558 < 1312398883 440679 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1312398889 725386 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 558 < 1312398891 33235 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1312398932 987015 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312398934 435150 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :558) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312398974 447111 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's wht I wanted to do < 1312398995 786506 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ignored the two-space rule elliott religiously holds to. < 1312399004 756361 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 558 < 1312399006 119144 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1312399007 331784 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312399008 724903 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :558) Well, I'm now experimenting with clients It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. < 1312399021 569798 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312399033 865208 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those people from Hexham are weird < 1312399043 440313 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this from personal experience < 1312399073 297466 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-16.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1312399117 659793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so I bought the Humble Bundle (#2 and #3), and Amazon needed nothing but the credit card number and expiry date < 1312399122 304955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even the security code on the back < 1312399124 364352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort-of amazing < 1312399132 294233 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sort of creepy < 1312399145 923814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1312399157 479675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the whole process of that code was to safeguard electronic transactions < 1312399169 266233 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312399180 939406 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Amazon; it's only proper that it behaves in amazing ways. < 1312399187 160742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're using the typical bank approach of "get contact details, then if something looks off, refund the charge, if it happens a lot go find someone to sue" < 1312399224 337637 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, I bought it too thirteen minutes ago, and Paypal's "add card to your account" thing wanted the security code too, but of course now it's rememberating all the details, which is a bit bad. < 1312399271 899594 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's better than it remembering your personal PIN number that identifies you < 1312399286 579173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I avoided Paypal; I reasonably-trust Amazon, in that they're big enough that if they were doing particularly evil things in their payment system then I'd probably have heard about it by now < 1312399331 888180 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a few questions about Sam Hughes's Perl tutorial < 1312399333 376070 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A hash is merely a list with an even number of elements, where the even-numbered elements (0, 2, ...) are all considered as strings." < 1312399334 580508 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312399354 665977 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that accurate? Sounds inefficient for look-ups etc. < 1312399356 59537 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paypal is, I guess, pretty big too. At least they move a lot of money. < 1312399373 107330 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, maybe "list" in Perl terms, not as a typical... meh < 1312399395 730505 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Again, unlike sort, and like grep, this block is NOT a small anonymous subroutine and you do NOT call return inside it" < 1312399400 195609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's a bit inaccurate; an even-length list is the representation of a hash used when you put data into it < 1312399410 589484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hash itself is not ordered, it's just a dictionary < 1312399416 551740 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that sort of inconsistency the thing that plagues PHP? < 1312399421 799596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no such thing as a "hash literal", you use an array literal and it converts < 1312399447 283369 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also "physically" implemented as a usual-ish hashtable. < 1312399462 754524 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $scalar = ("Alpha", "Beta", "Gamma", "Pie"); < 1312399462 956996 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :print $scalar; # "4" < 1312399480 416436 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m that one < 1312399560 456290 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, that's it for my questions, I think. < 1312399604 195847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weird syntax for things like sort/grep/etc is a historical reason < 1312399622 436338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they finally sorted that out in Perl 6, and the effort of finally sorting it out means that it still isn't finished < 1312399677 364656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the SQA exam results are being released. < 1312399690 691634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if they'll remember my address this year. < 1312399859 297488 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly PH, living in a country some of which is west of me! < 1312400144 912243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: surely it's both east /and/ west < 1312400208 297802 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I'm not walking East to get to Scoland < 1312400208 581687 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Scotland or that matte < 1312400208 783723 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1312400222 904684 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm not going to walk West either < 1312400245 625574 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I want to go to Dumfries < 1312400448 449569 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had no money < 1312400458 674349 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor the charisma to get a lift < 1312400484 821632 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor the sauveness required to ge away without paying on a train < 1312400575 977260 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm not going to walk to Dumfries < 1312400590 256284 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it's to the east o me < 1312400597 625223 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't type for some reason < 1312401058 260531 :invariable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312401143 161300 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1312401663 90929 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do you calculate n/2? I scrapped that idea when I realized it's probably not possible < 1312401717 71761 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that's possible either, but i think either of n/2 and n%2 gives you the other < 1312401730 843580 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312401739 746905 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as for paypal, if you don't store money in the account, you're fine < 1312401746 869717 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't actually sketchy on credit card or anything < 1312401761 335812 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just very trigger-happy and arbitrary when it comes to termination < 1312401846 735696 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that idea for doing something conditionally on ther being _two_ zero cells rather than one, how does that work, if it does? < 1312401850 895673 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1312402103 553816 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to introduce a friend of mine Haskell < 1312402116 617898 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Realised he doesn't understand algebra < 1312402122 874988 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Persevering < 1312402132 555096 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb the masochist < 1312402156 318315 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, he's refusing to do 2 + 2 < 1312402168 587383 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb the doomed < 1312402532 169561 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1312402557 218128 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone recommend a programming language to an aspirin actor who's crap at maths? < 1312402564 149264 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does he understand any form of programming at all? < 1312402567 797032 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shakespeare. < 1312402580 158462 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what's an aspirin actor < 1312402593 919572 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who gives you headaches? < 1312402594 643839 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One who acts in aspirin ads, duh. < 1312402640 342602 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, i've never noted that similarity before. i suppose it must have been intentional branding. < 1312402646 960197 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*noticed < 1312402685 934526 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the first i long or short? < 1312402707 67649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 'aspirin'? Short. < 1312402712 389330 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, hm... < 1312402801 709227 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a combination of acetyl and spirsäure < 1312402810 725741 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The new drug, formally acetylsalicylic acid, was named Aspirin by Bayer AG after the old botanical name for meadowsweet, Spiraea ulmaria." < 1312402884 863503 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was german, so the long vs. short i is irrelevant. < 1312403154 751305 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspirieren seems to be german < 1312403335 206625 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :null [] < 1312403345 170386 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woops, wrong tab < 1312403375 113345 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1312403388 292177 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you, Deewiant < 1312403409 207139 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1:10 parse error on input `,' < 1312403501 527441 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::quit < 1312403522 947950 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving GHCi. < 1312403748 145111 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1312403754 479064 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Mathematics_%28Bookshelf%29 are any of these a good read? < 1312404346 6952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312404370 149680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1312404421 75074 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1312404425 313687 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1312404439 897325 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1312404593 123350 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hy < 1312404628 329560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:32:46: * pikhq_ is tempted to write a partial git implementation. Anyone think of reasons I shouldn't? < 1312404628 570899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg < 1312404631 700854 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-146.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312404631 930337 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-73-146.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1312404632 132737 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312404646 599607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:01:06: what does right-leaning mean help < 1312404646 967569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy never dedents the code < 1312404647 252213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1312404652 209121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallylongfunction = do ... < 1312404655 271286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the code lines are aligned with ... < 1312404658 527911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bunch of nested conditionals < 1312404664 271070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like three hundred chars long :( < 1312404683 589252 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've forgotten < 1312404693 45646 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312404702 224813 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that, but I also stick to 80 columns < 1312404702 793704 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "codelipo" < 1312404706 969706 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go make a pretty printer named that. < 1312404721 673270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You should put a newline after "do" and then one indent :( < 1312404732 3716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you write C like < 1312404735 334672 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, if it fits in 80 columns < 1312404738 900627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo(int a, int b) { printf("..."); < 1312404739 103094 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually do a newline after do but sometimes I don't < 1312404785 969613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:22:14: "The report has sparked anger from IE supporters, who have threatened AptiQuant with legal action. < 1312404786 172196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1312404801 976047 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was later revealeed a fraud < 1312404812 665217 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole shazam < 1312404824 472183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it was a hoax < 1312404861 579325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: um that quote appeared a few lines after the article saying it was a hoax. < 1312404862 126888 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn you mean i won't get my money? < 1312404887 319469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes you will. (good thing you're stupid enough to believe this) < 1312404908 122744 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. excellent. < 1312404933 790109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AptiQuant was set up in late July 2011 by comparison shopping website AtCheap.com, in order to launch a fake “study” called “Intelligent Quotient and Browser Usage.” The study claimed that people using Internet Explorer have a below than average IQ score. The study took the IT world by storm. The main purpose behind this hoax was to create awareness about the incompatibilities of IE6, and not to insult or hurt anyone. < 1312404953 414228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time on aptiquant.com: Report on Just How Fucking Stupid We Can Possibly Be < 1312404973 921859 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't ie6 dead < 1312404978 438069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312404980 785449 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312404987 2962 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1312404993 543751 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does cpp work well on Java code? < 1312405005 679789 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, yes < 1312405009 31137 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it < 1312405034 331149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not massively well, because Java code tends not to include #include and #define and all the other stuff that's generally needed to make cpp do something useful < 1312405039 69508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People with higher IQ are shunning Internet Explorer study - Computer Business Review < 1312405056 126704 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard that was a hoax < 1312405065 140687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1312405072 398557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In May 2010, Microsoft started its "milk campaign", saying that using IE6 is like drinking nine-year-old milk. < 1312405084 833991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, this explains Firefox's new "release once every week" policy. < 1312405085 548579 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as long as it isn't it gives us opera users more reason to feel good about ourselves and look down on other-browser users < 1312405095 940616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, there was an awesome bit of spam which I left for you, but Keymaker deleted it < 1312405100 896731 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, goodnight < 1312405101 676939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :( < 1312405104 390038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so using IE9 is like drinking month-old milk? < 1312405108 219879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was advertising Google < 1312405114 298528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was my Firefox joke >:( < 1312405115 236673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and had a link to google.com at the end < 1312405119 637952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312405122 793897 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: THEY ARE HERE < 1312405126 971136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you delete it for like three seconds or something < 1312405135 28689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . N AnyPL‎; 18:55 . . (+18,908) . . PLarsen (Talk | contribs) (Renamed APL to AnyPL to avoid misconceptions) < 1312405137 393122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . APL‎; 18:58 . . (-18,999) . . PLarsen (Talk | contribs) (APL is renamed to AnyPL) < 1312405143 8603 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats move page < 1312405143 435980 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312405146 337404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can I ask you to delete AnyPL, revert that change to APL, and move it to AnyPL? < 1312405169 442084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : google is a search engine which clearly is a search google will give google maps ,google world, google news google mail etc[http://www.google.com google] < 1312405181 703476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a license violation since they're the only contributor and we're public domain, but it still erases history < 1312405189 94967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it clearly is a search :D < 1312405208 715258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I can call a language User:Icornellhoffmane < 1312405217 525745 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are probably edits to AnyPL for at least the name change... < 1312405221 537905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icornellhoffmane sounds like a cool language name, though < 1312405228 161220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um yes but they can easily be repeated. < 1312405241 626808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saving AnyPL's source code < 1312405245 85927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saving it over the resulting article < 1312405249 438700 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :User:Icornellhoffmane/index.php < 1312405258 617633 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14389430 is sad news then < 1312405274 487846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, please don't tell me how to do a history merge < 1312405275 194988 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "Internet Explorer story was bogus" story) < 1312405281 504913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1312405282 855975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not if you get it wrong < 1312405286 619681 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i'm just worried ais523 might take you literally < 1312405286 822450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh did I :( < 1312405298 507172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he has access to deleted pages, anyway < 1312405309 137683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I forgot it was common practice, and also forgot the name < 1312405309 800116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I didit wrong too < 1312405312 947205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1312405316 815712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to tell you how to do it < 1312405322 543443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, groan < 1312405329 750060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot to omit the blanking change < 1312405344 656975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I didn't < 1312405349 813645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a change made to the combined pages < 1312405370 193480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it breaks the diffs < 1312405390 90306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just vandalism + revert < 1312405396 996938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312405417 713432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you do a combined delete+move first, then undelete, then set the top revision < 1312405426 328826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I got the last two steps in the wrong order, and so set the wrong top revision < 1312405460 108260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my way was equivalent if the wrongly moved page has no changes made < 1312405487 894990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it leaves there with no revisions on the page for a while, and people wonder why the page has been deleted < 1312405496 109194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used to have to do something like that < 1312405503 286173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312405513 548668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I ended up editing db-histmerge to say "this page needs to be temporarily deleted" or something like that < 1312405524 669838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people are all "WHY ARE YOU DELETING MY PAGE" < 1312405682 959658 :invariable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312405710 413857 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312405962 183578 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf ,[[->+<],]>. < 1312405962 385596 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1312405965 729579 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test hm < 1312405965 931576 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1312405970 54799 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1312405997 755748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, indeed, was unexpected. < 1312406009 294482 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1312406032 197924 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf ,[>[-]<[->+<],]>. < 1312406032 400400 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1312406035 893160 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test hm < 1312406036 95289 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :m < 1312406438 5485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :furniture: the movie < 1312406600 287551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im....glfwpipe......................................................... < 1312406606 866783 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1312406619 339659 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is logo a functional language? < 1312406696 204382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is scheme a functional language < 1312406733 516645 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help whats a functieonl language help < 1312406757 823660 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :is BASIC a functional language? < 1312406768 497164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cobol a functional language < 1312406773 269398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is monqy a functional language < 1312406800 990111 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im the most fucntioanl language hello < 1312406807 508184 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is elliott a functional < 1312406811 396870 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :is english a functional language < 1312406813 109907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is olsner functional < 1312406822 379920 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is functional? < 1312406829 666542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional olsner < 1312406835 484275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312406850 275995 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :objective elliott < 1312406890 594213 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :structured water: functional healing < 1312406913 662066 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is the topic so empty nowadays? < 1312406927 261040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because anti-clog sentiment < 1312406928 996183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brewed < 1312406932 430827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i clamp on down on it < 1312406937 532766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my fsits < 1312406943 756516 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is clog a functional language < 1312406948 66574 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic is glove, much too glove < 1312406960 682394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anti-glove it < 1312406988 990470 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a functional language < 1312406990 271597 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unglove my heart^Wtopic < 1312407075 196786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.org < 1312407077 56812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.com < 1312407101 671461 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.org.com.net.ng < 1312407111 488125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.tk < 1312407118 219401 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.co.uk < 1312407125 998743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.biz.info < 1312407141 3780 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is all concatenated, right? otherwise it's just silly...) < 1312407142 53967 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.java.lang < 1312407154 985077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes < 1312407159 365510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.Exception < 1312407160 742382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good < 1312407189 888971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.good < 1312407198 696316 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.god < 1312407208 109003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.jesus < 1312407219 269866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.holyghost < 1312407224 675573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.email < 1312407236 417462 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :.xxx < 1312407283 139235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@istanbul.cn < 1312407283 341259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1312407294 381810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my new email address < 1312407383 182118 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istanbul isn't in china < 1312407405 993191 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : YET! < 1312407471 251032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312407802 349628 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312407854 895240 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1312407881 61826 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know what mathematical formula appears in this video at the time 2:08? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbGVIdA3dx0 < 1312407948 548789 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh please, you already sent me that link < 1312407991 146183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube links should probably be forbidden in #esoteric, they seldom do anything good in here < 1312408122 43725 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, something like "lol, this zardoz thing! you should, like, totally, check out the trailer on like youtube" would be a different issue entirely < 1312408141 291454 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, mostly anyway < 1312408206 188231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312408273 800878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what < 1312408389 289755 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1312408408 887083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In D. < 1312408442 875147 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Dd. < 1312408456 648544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CLICK ON VAN DAMMES MULLET TO SEE MORE" -- actual internet advert < 1312408542 886284 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312408556 996546 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of ad < 1312408557 781476 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this < 1312408566 973 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the mullet moving < 1312408573 832192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312408576 155200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want a picture < 1312408581 496512 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you get a free ipod if you click it < 1312408592 221006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for coors light i think < 1312408620 699848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ompldr.org/vOXF3bQ < 1312408660 340630 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but technically his mullet would be behind his face, wouldn't it? < 1312408722 885752 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf ,[>+[-[---->+++++<]<[>>[-----<++++>]<++<-[->>+<<]]>>[-<<+>>]<[-<[>[->+<]>++<<[->+<]>-<]>[-<+>]]>[-<+>]<[-<[>[->+<]>++<<[->+<]>-<]>[-<+>]]>[-<+>]<[-<[>[->+<]>++<<[->+<]>-<]>[-<+>]]>[-<+>]<]<.,] < 1312408723 127570 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1312408730 523018 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test 0123456789 < 1312408731 913670 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :<123A567F9 < 1312408757 712067 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1312408786 652700 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 60 < 1312408787 571442 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '<' < 1312408796 96573 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats going on :/ < 1312408806 486372 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm testing part of my fractran conversion < 1312408838 658933 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that appears to be a working "if (n%4 == 0) then n=5*(n/4);" < 1312408865 559460 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iterating over input characters, for testing) < 1312408942 680388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :DDDDDDDDDDDDddddddddd < 1312408965 471252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it can be done (if a program is written) converting MSE file into TeXnicard file. For card data you could probably do it both ways, although various template features and stuff has only in TeXnicard. You also probably it is difficult to convert the scripts between MSE and TeXnicard. < 1312408994 861159 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i still have that minor halting problem you'll find in the logs < 1312409018 111420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh < 1312409027 299577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i will click on van dammes mullet to see more, < 1312409106 881402 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, i can iterate things of the form if (n%C1 == 0) then n=C2*(n/C1)+C3; but the == 0 detection is such that i cannot use it to halt the main program... < 1312409136 782238 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have made prettyprinting Haskell, although, there is still a few things wrong. It includes: < 1312409140 303063 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Spacing is a bit wrong < 1312409146 332248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Template Haskell is not supported < 1312409163 803719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Pragmas not yet supported < 1312409208 114984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Magic hash is only partially supported < 1312409226 779316 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have bullet points < 1312409230 199457 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cannot make strings span multiple source texts < 1312409245 681713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Some of the default symbols should be changed and more should be added < 1312409265 517242 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, can you see how it currently is? See if it seem good, or whatever else it is? < 1312409284 221537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:34:35: Numberwang depends on more variables than a single number < 1312409284 647556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:35:13: No, but I was once in the studio audience of the show < 1312409284 849740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to go "cool" but tHTNE,.... < 1312409286 900936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I EREALISED IT WAS A FAKE SHOW < 1312409297 792904 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well due to the problem posed tnis morning, i did figure out how to find x%n in n+1 cells for all positive n (and i suspect i could make n a parameter for just one more cell). that was fun puzzle, thanks. < 1312409300 101965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: Bullet points? Do you mean as a part of the program code or else? < 1312409300 342815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically, i can iterate things of the form if (n%C1 == 0) then n=C2*(n/C1)+C3; but the == 0 detection is such that i cannot use it to halt the main program... < 1312409341 147211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm well I know a BF Joust technique is to turn if(a){b}else{c};d into while(a){b;d};c;d < 1312409351 147223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but that's when you have bounds on program running time, etc... < 1312409359 149117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can know it'll never go past d < 1312409363 65549 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: note that the original x needs to be preserved in some cell < 1312409382 285410 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, no i mean more bullet points than the ones you just posted < 1312409387 831064 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i didnt assume that. it takes one more cell if you want to do that < 1312409390 657646 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least reconstructable < 1312409393 640193 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like the main feature of your program is bullet points < 1312409395 620142 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: darn :( < 1312409398 312097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:52:39: Taneb: you've seen numberwang *LIVE*!? < 1312409398 514289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:52:40: i know almost nothing about it < 1312409398 514465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:52:57: as i've never used it myself < 1312409398 514564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:53:20: it's for compile-time metaprogramming, afaik < 1312409422 83709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: No, I was just listing what some of the problem are currently with the program. < 1312409433 259170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57:59: Do you know, if it is allowed in Template Haskell, to have one $ command that will return something for use of the next $ command that is found if it can use it? < 1312409441 532573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you mean an impure splice, basically? < 1312409445 907462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. $(foo) could be 9 one place and 0 another < 1312409491 384655 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it turned out he hadn't, he merely simply just lied about having done that < 1312409493 820922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :splices run in the Q monad which is a MonadIO, so yes, they can be non-deterministic, and even delete files or whatever if they want. storing a value for next time is probably possible by manipulating places you can store state in IO. they couldn't use an IORef without unsafePerformIO < 1312409500 269251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: numberwang is not real......... < 1312409500 696109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I mean a bit like that < 1312409506 679875 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course it is < 1312409526 796750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:59:39: Can you compile Haskell codes into LLVM codes? I have read LLVM documentation it does suppports Haskell calling convention < 1312409533 28279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: GHC has this < 1312409538 639880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it's quickly becoming the most favoured backend. < 1312409548 954826 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :r.i.p. c-- < 1312409574 256551 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: but that's when you have bounds on program running time, etc... <-- not particularly useful when you're trying to make a program which _actually_ halts :P < 1312409578 559228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:07:58: Not what I am looking for, though. What it is, is if there is something for adding LLVM codes into a program similar to "asm" command in C, except using LLVM codes instead of native codes, and for Haskell instead of only with C < 1312409593 212416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well you can achieve something semi-equivalent by compiling LLVM IR at runtime using the API, and then casting that to a function type < 1312409597 777545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1312409606 393923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could use <<< as a sure-fire halter >:) < 1312409642 252433 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But can you, for example, the return value of a $(...) can be a pair of one value (probably a union type) and the second one is the object representing what is replaced in the program code < 1312409666 981178 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I rather referred to the numberwang sketch(es), which might have had live audiences (though I think they wouldn't have been watching numberwang per se, but rather would've been watching mitchell and webb) < 1312409683 834920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't understand what you mean by "the object representing what is replaced in the program code" < 1312409688 5061 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, but I mean can you include LLVM codes at compile-time? I don't mean at run-time < 1312409733 943010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't think so < 1312409752 760594 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : r.i.p. c-- <-- wait it's gone? < 1312409786 203932 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not know < 1312409802 169135 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not gone < 1312409810 610563 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not going, that is < 1312409864 254060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:42: is there a name for a numbering system where every single positive integer has a distinct symbol? < 1312409865 865170 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you might find the flagging technique i used helps with the halting issue (if you dont already use it). it essentially lets you exit a loop if any of a whole bunch of cells has been zeroed... < 1312409866 799695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: the naturals < 1312409873 391591 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1312409882 59475 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that subject is over < 1312409882 801277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whole bunch" he has precisely three cells < 1312409888 914414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i un-overed it < 1312409895 8103 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, the type of "..." expression in $(...) which can be "Q Exp" or "Q Typ" or "Q [Dec]" so can it be made a pair instead so that you can keep track of previous things? Such as, you can do put everything figured out previously at the end, or prevent duplicates, or whatever < 1312409918 462057 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is he trrying to fit the entire converter into 3 cells? < 1312409928 520682 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: you could use <<< as a sure-fire halter >:) <-- i don't think so. also i'm not sure i can actually perform an action _specifically_ when something is %2 == 0 < 1312409933 104862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm not quite sure i understand < 1312409936 949289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's the whole point of the converter < 1312409946 387019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was a joke, if you only have three cells then <<< is necessarily invalid < 1312409948 417968 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1312409957 996607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: to prove that three-cell BF is tc < 1312409964 615239 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1312409977 290600 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we know already that four cell BF is? < 1312409986 924691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:56:09: he's talking about an infinite number of symbols. I don't think that has a name. < 1312409987 127101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, it's called a "set" < 1312409990 616230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no. oerjan is just hardcore. < 1312409993 176776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know that six is IIRC < 1312409995 465195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it seven < 1312410006 640769 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it five < 1312410014 204803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: are you basically saying that you want foo in $(foo) to be able to use global state? < 1312410014 490409 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im dont know ;_; < 1312410022 334839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if you do $(foo "a") it will note that "a" has been done < 1312410029 449984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not do it again if you say $(foo "a") later or whatever < 1312410083 170542 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: five < 1312410084 952536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:57:28: it is not dumb < 1312410085 237503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:58:11: becuase youll only ever need a finite subset of the digits, its basically the same as "base x, where x is the largest number you need right now" < 1312410085 439623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the same fallacy that makes a language with a fixed-but-arbitrary-size heap TC < 1312410092 93305 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, i hadn't sent you any links < 1312410095 379621 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't feel so special < 1312410107 328439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You failed to understand? O, well, I don't know much about Haskell so maybe I wrote everything mixed up. But, I mean, for example, if "xyz" is a function receiving (Integer) and then returns (Integer,Q Exp) type then you can type $(xyz) so it expects the last pair with Integer type at first and makes the new one Integer and then put the Q Exp expression spliced out < 1312410126 161350 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really care if you've seen it 2 or 0 times unless you're going to recognize the formula, then i care but only a tiny bit. < 1312410146 247088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i realized it was dumb later...it'd be better if you just finished reading everything before commenting < 1312410146 922157 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I see what you mean, but then again anything I see on my screen has been sent to me, regardless of who the recipient(s) was/were < 1312410162 949020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that is not the Way. < 1312410170 30559 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadn't sent it to you. i had sent it to a channel, to which you subscribed by joining. < 1312410178 798614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry, I still don't quite understand < 1312410208 140019 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: still your fault I saw it < 1312410217 944866 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything, i hadn't opted to send it to you, you opted to receive it < 1312410226 927076 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know its not how you do things, and that you intentionally elect to be annoying about backlog commenting, but i can still hold out hope you will become civilized can't i? < 1312410232 180759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that olsner < 1312410234 391361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare he say "oh please, you already sent me that link" < 1312410235 641787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1312410237 797600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you show him dude < 1312410247 925806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you realise oerjan did it first :) < 1312410249 515045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and continues to < 1312410256 163295 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, elliott is always annoying < 1312410266 204873 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn to live with it, he can't be changed < 1312410269 55156 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Indeed. < 1312410272 925837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think cheater woke up on the wrong side of the bed today < 1312410275 258656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(his bed has two wrong sides) < 1312410289 950751 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bed has about six sides < 1312410297 452844 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's in 3-D Space < 1312410299 402532 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, two wrong sides... how many sides does that leave for being the right side(s)? < 1312410306 745452 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :four. < 1312410310 451484 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312410316 756621 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont forget inside and outside < 1312410319 359144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well i assumed it is against a wall < 1312410319 561700 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would hate to wake up on the under-side of my bed) < 1312410322 839209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess he could lunge over the front < 1312410327 482847 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, those are SIDES too! < 1312410328 859151 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the inside, of course < 1312410335 592333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are other sides, but none of them are practical to exit from. < 1312410339 26389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit on < 1312410358 415208 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who said anything about exiting the bed? < 1312410364 980455 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's waking up that's the issue < 1312410375 694168 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312410379 107976 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live in a room with no walls < 1312410387 584684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater is homeless. < 1312410392 940947 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1312410403 468605 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world is my home!!!!! < 1312410474 310992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:58:57: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Mechadragon/thetree.png < 1312410474 513232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are really shitty trees < 1312410501 826643 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a spectrogram < 1312410515 849111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency < 1312410517 208064 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :559) I combined the wholegrain breakfast and chocolatey breakfast for maximum breakfast efficiency < 1312410524 212812 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people call logo the lisp without parentheses? < 1312410529 63826 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can explain better. something :: String -> (Integer,Q Exp) something x = [| aaa bbb |] f x = $(something) Now there must be at least one previous $(...) of type "(anything) -> (String,Q (anything))" < 1312410531 817392 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost exactly like the spectrograms that websdr gives you < 1312410561 491060 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it doesn't have to be the directly previous one, there can be anything else in between) < 1312410572 939119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: because it is a fixed-arity lisp. < 1312410580 314802 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: because it is rather similar below the syntax < 1312410582 569781 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that song totally does not look sequenced. < 1312410584 221325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something :: String -> (Integer,Q Exp) something x = [| aaa bbb |] < 1312410586 635150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this is not valid < 1312410599 461126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: something x = (length x, [| aaa |]) might be. < 1312410608 642189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that, sorry. Now you made better. < 1312410613 603068 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got mixed up. < 1312410621 170621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x = $(something) < 1312410627 609571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not valid, because something is not of type Q Exp < 1312410631 857628 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your example is the kind of things I mean. < 1312410649 827029 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes I know is not valid. I am asking if there is some way to do something similar to what I described < 1312410656 425897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312410664 567321 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, is there a way to make it valid. < 1312410670 880245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now there must be at least one previous $(...) of type "(anything) -> (String,Q (anything))"" <-- what do you mean by "there must be at least one previous" etc.? < 1312410679 244058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, do you want to stop anyone using that splice once? < 1312410682 507092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to use it two or three times or whatever < 1312410697 167636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I mean there must be an input otherwise how can it be used? < 1312410699 217894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the Integer record the number of times the splice has been used? < 1312410713 179470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah. well yes, (String -> Q Exp) is not of type Q Exp. < 1312410717 978194 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Integer" would be the input. So there must be a input < 1312410718 545058 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, do you just mean state < 1312410735 658086 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: Yes, maybe I mean like that < 1312410737 417413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the Integer there is part of the return type < 1312410741 347165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not part of the input < 1312410788 589463 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in state < 1312410801 981138 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrive in state < 1312410805 291417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:21:02: dude < 1312410805 494042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:21:08: using negatives is not a flaw < 1312410809 913169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it is if negatives impact his translation < 1312410844 985119 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it bad that I'm bruteforcing VVVVVV puzzles? < 1312410882 249424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll pass this question on to our VVVVVVVVVVVvvvvvvvvv expert FireFly < 1312410883 406216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1312410884 543213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1312410899 73661 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did finish VVVVVV < 1312410911 738999 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finished the uh < 1312410913 276933 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :free demo < 1312410919 816947 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago < 1312410932 969392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should buy the bnudle............ < 1312410938 819547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :idnie bnudle. < 1312410940 865865 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you should < 1312411018 945339 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bnudle is probably good but the trailer killed me and did bad things to my corpse < 1312411049 578014 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i think it was the trailer < 1312411063 902777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:36:53: yes, also they're hard to use here < 1312411064 105403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:37:12: but then maybe it could be essential < 1312411069 622712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is BF with only balanced loops TC? < 1312411080 494196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somewhat doubt it considering how simple an instruction set you can translate them to < 1312411096 236567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't, then you _must_ used an unbalanced loop somewhere. < 1312411097 258719 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes it is. < 1312411100 971421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh, okay < 1312411106 150403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: cool, we should eliminate them, then < 1312411111 364818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would make optimisation a hell of a lot easier. < 1312411146 134906 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i haven't used any unbalanced loops in the conversion yet, but i'd use one if it could help with the halting... < 1312411183 563437 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pikhq_'s BFM worked much better when generating balanced loops iirc < 1312411189 852011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you can arrange things so that you would fortuitously land on a 0 when you need to halt... < 1312411198 232169 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do unbalanced loops workii forget the spec < 1312411198 434716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, well obviously compilers can do balanced loops really quickly < 1312411204 657022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the polynomial translation < 1312411228 883422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: unbalanced = doesn't move left as much as it moves right < 1312411249 630018 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312411254 355088 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1312411259 158925 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking different things oops < 1312411274 561400 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes the Integer is part of return type in that example, which means the input type of one of the $(...) in the future can be Integer. But since the input type this time is String, requires one of the previous ones to have a pair with String as the output < 1312411287 940859 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do you understand what I mean? < 1312411301 854495 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I feel like I was mashing buttons for the chords < 1312411317 355291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you mean... < 1312411324 573015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: $(something 9) could return (Integer, Q Exp) < 1312411326 786616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1312411329 693387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: $(something 9) could return (String, Q Exp) < 1312411333 957511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in $(something x) < 1312411337 989087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x would have to be a String?? < 1312411342 913275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see what you mean at all < 1312411378 397205 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleeping diode < 1312411388 971752 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleeping? < 1312411437 410461 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No! I mean, probably you would have a function with a type "Integer -> String -> (Integer, Q Exp)" then you can have "$(something 42)" which results in a type "String -> (Integer, Q Exp)" which is the type of the splice. And then it call it with the previous one having type "(String, Q Exp)" or "(String, Q [Dec])" etc, the first of that pair is the input of the function, the output the second part makes the expression. < 1312411458 563504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1312411460 964819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1312411462 784445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would use it like: < 1312411467 555061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$($(something 99) "abc")? < 1312411483 726085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That is not what I mean. < 1312411512 121320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312411516 145255 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably at first you would need something with the input type being () so that you can start < 1312411526 705607 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise you always need a input value and you don't have any < 1312411589 838306 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will write a better example < 1312411592 694542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:51:35: What would make the perfect programming language, in your eyes? < 1312411592 896524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang :-P < 1312411592 896711 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1312411634 177965 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zepto < 1312411641 55622 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang too < 1312411641 625011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1312411645 479110 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: apparently c-- is still used when compiling with llvm, it's the last common stage before all the separate backends, http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Compiler/HscMain < 1312411651 286446 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1312411807 676844 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i do recall there was some backend which went off an earlier stage < 1312411829 331209 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an experimental one, i wonder if it was the javascript one < 1312411846 576483 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait that wasn't ghc at all was it. < 1312411871 739874 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yhc, apparently < 1312411886 398818 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1312411891 227229 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312411907 294204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip yhc < 1312411950 646675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:28:55: null [] < 1312411950 931023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29:05: Woops, wrong tab < 1312411951 133433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29:35: True < 1312411951 133660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:29:48: Thank you, Deewiant < 1312411951 133771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30:09: :1:10 parse error on input `,' < 1312411951 658380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:31:41: :quit < 1312411953 841697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:32:02: Leaving GHCi. < 1312411957 794529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you should have done /quit Leaving GHCi. instead :P < 1312412086 577565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Five Humble Indie Bundle 2 games added to the Humble Indie Bundle 3 < 1312412088 656748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for goodness sake < 1312412227 341492 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does this mean < 1312412237 451749 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you get to play gish < 1312412242 844026 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that in HIB1 < 1312412258 459616 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's hib2 specific now < 1312412259 871269 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything < 1312412424 79290 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is better example http://sprunge.us/cHbI I know it is wrong that is why I ask what other way to do a similar thing. < 1312412567 107209 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it is understand?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1312412577 731301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'll check < 1312412611 463899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK, so what you want is mutable state < 1312412617 10448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do this: < 1312412631 131003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :state :: IORef Bool; state = unsafePerformIO $ newIORef False < 1312412635 832399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbb :: Q Exp < 1312412668 814615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbb = do r <- liftIO $ readIORef state; liftIO $ writeIORef state False; if r then [ | 5 |] else [| 7 |] < 1312412673 115392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly for cc < 1312412679 863790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and aaa becomes unneccessary because we specify an initialiser < 1312412687 284291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: this requires unsafePerformIO though, which is Bad < 1312412690 371581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed breaks the type system < 1312412694 113761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is thus kept in an unsafe module < 1312412704 736365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you want to do it safely, then you need to exploit the fact that you can access the IO monad from Q < 1312412706 544281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, it is unsafePerformIO that is why I wanted it differently without unsafe < 1312412715 568640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you could use whether stdout is in binary mode or not < 1312412726 85397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some other piece of internal state that doesn't matter to you < 1312412730 955899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a huge hack, of course < 1312412737 777597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write out the boolean to a file and read it back in, too < 1312412738 980695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1312412745 598790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but generally i'd say that you shouldn't :P < 1312412757 387259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc if it's just for a fun hack then it's fine. but then if it's just for a fun hack unsafePerformIO is ok too. < 1312412767 353945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes it can almost certainly be done < 1312412770 324220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be ugly though :) < 1312412807 885264 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, don't mutable state ;_; < 1312412814 817267 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that wouldn't be very well, which is why I asked it differently. But, OK, now I know at least it can be done in case it is necessary < 1312412880 253936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it probably can. if your user has no permissions to write any kind of file at all, you rely on stdout being in a certain encoding so you can't change that, ..., then you couldn't do it < 1312412892 990992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect the base libraries have some way to twiddle a bit on and off without effecting everything, by accident :) < 1312412995 423467 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone got an idea why gawk AND mawk would both only output one space when doing this? LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 gawk 'BEGIN{ printf(".%3s.\n", "ü")}' < 1312413027 755281 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe another way would be to make $(doeverything x) where doeverything :: [([Integer], Q [Dec])] -> Q [Dec] < 1312413028 990382 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it works on other people's computers < 1312413030 695466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this way work? < 1312413036 210100 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i tried on all my computers and it doesn't < 1312413052 460507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: um well x would have to be a list of ([Integer], Q [Dec])s < 1312413055 571896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a weird thing to pass < 1312413073 124148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know it is < 1312413084 693585 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it be that my libc is somehow fucked up? < 1312413174 293278 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a different type instead of [Integer] it should be a monad on the first half of the pair, or a function type. And then you can have commands that can check these thing the function "doeverything" pass each result to the next one and then make the output Q [Dec] based on each one put it together < 1312413230 861559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wrong when I put [Integer] probably a function type or a monad type (or maybe you need both?) would work instead < 1312413259 370788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no. if you return type is (Q Dec), then you cannot cause any effects outside of Q. < 1312413275 699414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are restricted to what effects Q offers < 1312413379 673965 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: So, what, ". ü." is the string it should output? < 1312413501 332884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://sprunge.us/WZLA help this is too funny (guy in haskell logs has team, is developing online version of Risk, apparently no good at concurrent programming, expects 10000 concurrent users) < 1312413560 986064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:37:42 do you guys compile your haskell to machine code? < 1312413577 520307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(06:47:05 what do they mean when they say pascal is pure?) < 1312413637 91546 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know whether to keep this guy away from haskell or force him to learn it until he becomes smart < 1312413651 100873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they mean when they say pascal is pure < 1312413653 212336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1312413738 360055 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, it should output two spaces to the left of the umlaut u < 1312413751 897416 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. ü. < 1312413790 332239 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice the string specifier is %3s which means the field should be formatted to 3 characters wide. < 1312413837 367015 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did they reach a conclusion < 1312413847 109105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im not srue................................................................... < 1312413956 192528 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you'll notice that it works for ascii letters and other single-byte characters. it does for me too. now for multibyte characters it might work for you, but it most certainly does not work here < 1312413996 557375 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im searching for zyclops does this make me a bad person < 1312414013 927498 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:17 Zyclops hey pythoners, anyone know how to get python-setuptools installed under bsd? < 1312414016 906158 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:22 Zyclops ah ha < 1312414019 348253 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:23 Zyclops i't py-setuptools under /ports/devel/ < 1312414030 132476 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard from again < 1312414037 962521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312414043 256171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312414084 150038 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can pass the list [((Xyzzy, Q [Dec]) -> (Xyzzy, Q [Dec]), Q [Dec])] So that, you can have a type "Xyzzy" which tells the things need to keep track of, and then Q [Dec] is the program codes and the other one is a function that transform it based on the state, you can have a function taking parameter and make output due to currying functions too < 1312414092 608876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:40:06 erus`: linux-programmers only know about shell scripting and C < 1312414154 973527 :ttm_!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312414167 680218 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am having trouble finding zyclops' risk adventures online < 1312414184 878910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/11.07.31 < 1312414186 412327 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he gave up :( < 1312414186 614549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur welcmome < 1312414208 978135 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that recent? < 1312414214 681225 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some things of AWK, but I never used AWK with Unicode, I have only used AWK with ASCII, so I don't know the answer of the questions you asked about AWK < 1312414247 477196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1312414259 955529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1312414260 964802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is it < 1312414275 725435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/11.07.31 < 1312414276 725710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312414419 886429 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:02:34 erm.. my progamming liniage went…. BBC basic -> basic -> visual basic -> c++ -> java -> php -> ruby < 1312414431 903667 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he leaves < 1312414432 898651 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312414499 774312 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where, "Xyzzy" is a object that keeps track of all the information needed tp be kept track of between the different pieces of the Haskell codes, so that the record might include a number and a function that increments that number and include it, or a list to keep track of duplicates and put all fields of a record spread out moved together, etc) < 1312414634 824378 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1312414638 264395 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, how can you otherwise make a number in Template Haskell that increments after each time? < 1312414657 591154 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, if you don't use unsafe or other I/O stuff that doesn't belong) < 1312414861 891287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: using IO from within Q is perfectly acecptable. < 1312414863 559511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :acceptable. < 1312414878 12096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :using unsafe functions probably is not, but IO is supposed to be accessible from Q. < 1312414905 240955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runIO :: IO a -> Q aSource < 1312414905 443100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The runIO function lets you run an I/O computation in the Q monad. Take care: you are guaranteed the ordering of calls to runIO within a single Q computation, but not about the order in which splices are run. < 1312414905 645258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: for various murky reasons, stdout and stderr handles are not necesarily flushed when the compiler finishes running, so you should flush them yourself. < 1312414909 635337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/aSource/a/ < 1312414917 200001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1312414921 730237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my solution was _incorrect_ < 1312414927 81292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because splices can be run in any order < 1312414937 358732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, no, there is no way for them to predictably keep state < 1312415370 289343 :Sulmersal!~Sulmersal@70.94.60.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312415437 658991 :Sulmersal!~Sulmersal@70.94.60.54 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1312415486 55555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, so there isn't a way. Maybe I can propose the variant which keeps state. In addition to types "Q Exp" and "Q Typ" and so on, the result can also be of a type "x -> (y, Q Exp)" and "x -> (y, Q Typ)" and so on, where "y" can be any type, and "x" must be either "()" or the same as the "y" type of a previous splice. The ordering of splices in a "chain" is guaranteed but others aren't. < 1312415503 285682 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312415583 46884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how well it would work with the rest of the stuff they have. < 1312415816 359669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1312415831 647675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, umm, that's just the state monad. < 1312415846 430655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you cannot really force an ordering of splices at all. < 1312415852 201024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the compiler can compile modules in any order, etc. < 1312415906 357593 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it all in a single splice? < 1312416065 397138 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312416974 238879 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312417064 506088 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312417419 510674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, "paragraph" actually meant 16 bytes on sixteen bit intel < 1312417420 393390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1312417422 697059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to page < 1312417432 846572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so amazing. < 1312418078 132414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION appends http://hackage.haskell.org/package/gloss to the "To look at" list < 1312418085 732254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm it looks two dimensional < 1312418148 996922 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I looked at gloss too. I forget exactly why I didn't use it < 1312418152 798851 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should look more at it < 1312418164 910071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at it with the fiery power of a thousand suns... < 1312418182 751070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers looking at Frag sometime too :P < 1312418186 126316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses FRP at least. < 1312418189 455549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OpenGL. < 1312418214 495044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my game is going to be SO AWESOME. < 1312418225 366350 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottcraft or what < 1312418229 126937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1312418298 657594 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought you said there were unsolved problems with FRP? < 1312418327 149242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. but you can wing it. < 1312418338 394884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?t \f g -> (f .) . g < 1312418338 821000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc topic-tail topic-tell type . ? @ ft v < 1312418340 882893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f g -> (f .) . g < 1312418341 762575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *) (f1 :: * -> *). (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f1 (f a) -> f1 (f b) < 1312418347 496101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f g -> (f Prelude..) Prelude.. g < 1312418348 349388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b c a a1. (b -> c) -> (a1 -> a -> b) -> a1 -> a -> c < 1312418353 926906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate lambdabot forever < 1312418363 408191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312418366 406370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g -> (f Prelude..) Prelude.. g < 1312418366 690260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip ($ Prelude..) Prelude.. < 1312418369 358529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g -> (f .) . g < 1312418369 760967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) . (.) < 1312418372 50542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as i suspected < 1312418523 434289 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye olde horriblie broken parser < 1312418531 535094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1312418550 447581 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :($ Prelude..) is not legal syntax < 1312418557 49536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, heh < 1312418562 854196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1312418646 393794 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($ Prelude..) < 1312418647 345319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `Prelude..' < 1312418684 596083 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl (.) . (.) < 1312418685 58305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\ i b c f -> i (b c f)) < 1312418698 344114 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?unpl flip ($ Prelude..) Prelude.. < 1312418698 728349 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Parse error at "Prelu..." (column 9) < 1312418835 753849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concludes that Tindeck is entirely a Homestuck fansite. < 1312419330 702890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it existed before homestuck < 1312419335 741612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an SA thing < 1312419344 152999 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so a printer error more than a parser error < 1312419359 663304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guessed both of those. < 1312419374 668436 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g -> (f hm) hm g < 1312419375 60968 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip ($ hm) hm < 1312419397 218570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are about 3 tracks on 'popular now' which aren't Homestuck-related. < 1312419399 116917 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1312419429 698611 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g -> hm (hm f) g < 1312419430 126146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm . hm < 1312419481 592986 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be parser < 1312419582 932931 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should put my karaoke on tindeck < 1312419631 257648 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still had that until like yesterday < 1312419908 164669 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312420015 953113 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are the times? < 1312420088 756977 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you deleted it‽ < 1312420096 146071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW < 1312420144 111617 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot i didn't move it from my downloads directory and then i cleared my downloads directory :'( < 1312420285 180267 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's back up on his website, though. < 1312420324 107924 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to just look up the answer for VVVVVV's I Love You < 1312420349 774060 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1312420527 687469 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, I thought I tried that < 1312420739 9751 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you going on about? < 1312420764 135747 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, VVVVVV is one of the games in Humble Indie Bundle 3 < 1312420773 537696 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1312420778 860558 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I should probably get that thing. < 1312420801 259723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone do me a favour after I quit and @tell lambdabot to remind me. < 1312420833 344115 :cheater!~ubuntu@g229064188.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312421338 781790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1312421342 646005 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover I wonder if this works. < 1312421343 72117 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell yourself! < 1312421353 396141 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dammit < 1312421353 823679 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1312421356 531593 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1312421561 782766 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover Get that thing. < 1312421561 984942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1312421572 636158 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's taken care of. < 1312421614 857317 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312422099 441700 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312422505 213533 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I finished Gödel, Escher, Bach. I found it off-puttingly clever and absurdly long for the subject matter. < 1312422515 699664 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those interested, discuss. < 1312422579 232749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I have read that book too. I notice many things. Even it mentioned in the bibliography, is a book that doesn't even exist. There is many references to copper,silver,gold (can you find it?) and a lot of other things. I like this book too. < 1312422698 563739 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was...something. I feel like it was just written in a "ho ho aren't I clever" sort of way merely for the sake of it. < 1312422703 99976 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't necessarily obscure the point. < 1312422712 459822 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it certainly makes it longer and more irritating to get to the point. < 1312422714 241646 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interludes were amusing as clever stories yes < 1312422730 141507 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was good to know more details of godel's proof < 1312422735 627460 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, certainly. < 1312422742 192240 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other than that i didnt really learn anything from it < 1312422793 100739 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants recommendations for Gutenberg Project books to read < 1312422794 619672 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, i spread the reading of it over months because it was kind of tedious < 1312422819 271068 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: have you read all the classics yet? < 1312422837 999251 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1312422843 176480 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire book it makes many things. I happen to like this book. I have the Vintage edition. Find all the secret messages and everything else in this book including everything wrong with it and so on. < 1312422848 232439 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I did it in a couple days because otherwise I wouldn't've bothered continuing with it. < 1312422851 571473 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure I'd be interested in classical fiction < 1312422865 645978 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if youve finished with the english language classics, start in on the icelandic language classics. Njalssaga is on PG i think < 1312422876 576682 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless maybe some humorous classical fiction? < 1312422893 72090 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :alice in wonderland? < 1312422900 662036 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like required reading... < 1312422925 123085 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Alice in Wonderland; very good. < 1312422954 112226 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also flatland < 1312422971 72329 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :jules verne < 1312422975 586460 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read Flatland a while ago. Tried to get the PG version, doesn't seem to work well < 1312423003 169521 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Jules Verne is science fiction, but... hm < 1312423012 782363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the R version < 1312423031 457698 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much more...interesting. ;) < 1312423051 322804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot square on square action < 1312423054 488933 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, Flatland is bothersome not for what it is. < 1312423066 143491 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But rather for what people interpret it to mean. < 1312423087 336205 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather like Huxley's work, it gets misinterpreted by people who miss the point but use the work to make their own faux-points. < 1312423091 448396 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :flatland is interesting if you understand it as a commentary on victorian culture < 1312423114 506786 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like gullivers travels (also recommend) < 1312423980 411432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : So I finished Gödel, Escher, Bach. I found it off-puttingly clever and absurdly long for the subject matter. < 1312423982 831244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no subject matter < 1312423995 617252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a bunch of confused rambling leading up to a stupid "BRAINS = RECURSION DOOD" non-conclusion < 1312424011 440157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Chris_Pressey#G.C3.B6del.2C_Escher.2C_Bach:_An_Eternal_Golden_Braid :P < 1312424050 117929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have just been a book of achilles/tortoise dialogues :) < 1312424097 166382 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zombies sure do love recursion. < 1312424126 88817 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dialogues is good, but so is the other things. I think it is very good although you would have to think of these things various things mentioned, see if you can figure it out or just have your own opinions about these things, you might agree/disagree whatever. But it has dialogues too and also other things, such as art and music. < 1312424160 544012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death penalty could be debated in Commons after e-petition calls < 1312424160 746319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leader of Commons says ignoring topics raised by new scheme allowing submissions would be unfair to public < 1312424164 15074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1312424218 723199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even the various jokes, secret message and partially obscured references maybe you can find, and descriptions of typographical number theory and the author's own opinions of various ideas, and many wordplays, even a well annotated bibliography, etc. Is good! < 1312424233 548074 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1312425967 979768 :naryfa!~i@c-98-221-197-169.hsd1.nj.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312425979 46304 :naryfa!~i@c-98-221-197-169.hsd1.nj.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helleaoh < 1312426045 304947 :naryfa!~i@c-98-221-197-169.hsd1.nj.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1312427119 434704 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312427708 931272 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312427843 404869 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll just watch a blind LP of VVVVVV < 1312427849 561341 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds a bit difficult < 1312428484 195480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to playing it?? < 1312428486 993002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/??/?/ < 1312429250 86472 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1312429310 402165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: update/ < 1312429338 887328 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im infer that blind lps of vvvvvv are hard to watch because they are painful because they are awful < 1312430403 716564 :evincar!~jon@d-burl-bng2-64-223-166-139.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net QUIT :Quit: Tomorrow comes a day too soon. < 1312430932 662480 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARMCUBLENS SCANBLUREM LAMNUBRECS < 1312430972 13298 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are these real words? < 1312430988 175577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as real as word 'monqy' < 1312431245 553318 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312431549 910840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.jwz.org/blog/2011/07/mork-keeps-on-giving-when-the-database-worms-eat-into-your-murder-trial/ < 1312431551 298058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1312431585 817896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant stop laughing < 1312432582 329459 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow what < 1312432648 956184 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mork] was developed ... with the aim of creating a minimal database replacement that would be reliable, flexible, and efficient, and use a file format close to plain text. < 1312432848 548694 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312434107 747351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh man have you not < 1312434109 736115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read jwz's posts on it < 1312434120 680601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2004/03/when-the-database-worms-eat-into-your-brain/ < 1312434137 686680 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read that one (i followed the link from the one about murder trial) < 1312434139 891490 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1312434143 325822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the comments too < 1312434144 890638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so amazing < 1312434165 106865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the top of mork.pl < 1312434168 168868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so amazing < 1312434197 34833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In case the true comedy of this part isn't apparent: he's clearly going to all this trouble to hyper-compress this file, what with the lookup tables for every identifier, right? And then, when writing out strings, he doesn't write them as UTF-8: he writes them as raw wchar_t strings. If he was writing them as raw bytes, that would multiply his file size by either 2 or 4 (depending on how big wchar_t is -- but wait! He doesn't write them raw, he < 1312434197 274875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :writes them A) hex encoded and B) with a $ before each hex byte! So even on 16-bit wchar_t systems, he's tripled the file size." < 1312434324 959523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but...................... < 1312434356 833016 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no others < 1312434359 791126 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming they exist < 1312434421 482852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i odn't know if they do < 1312434425 923809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .pl is a blog ,,, in itself,,, < 1312434432 423278 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's *horrifying*. < 1312434443 62872 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great < 1312434465 359979 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they WONTFIX'd it? *shudder* < 1312434492 791995 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's so *many* alternatives to that shit that'd be better. < 1312434537 71995 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sqlite, Berkeley DB, CSV, JSON, *XML*, a shell script, a Brainfuck script, a Lazy K script, ... < 1312434552 438397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Mork is finally gone in Firefox seven < 1312434556 382001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hasn't been used regularly since three < 1312434559 638358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when Places came in) < 1312434562 305898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thus SQLite) < 1312434569 211219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only in current versions as a converter, IIRC < 1312434583 957921 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Praise be to (eventual) sanity. < 1312434592 216420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, umm, does anyone know how this happened? < 1312434594 33685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/08/the-british-government-has-endorsed.ars < 1312434597 656290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ [dollar]// < 1312434711 136766 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably Murdoch stopped paying for hookers for members of Parliament long enough for them to decide to act in the interests of the country. < 1312434863 305231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The government is not exactly on speaking terms with Murdoch right now :-P < 1312434992 691105 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ours decided to go back to ignoring Murdoch, preferring to take the economy hostage for a bit before going on vacation, leaving the Federal Aviation Administration not running for a month. < 1312435634 693036 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-219-68.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312435645 378674 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312436266 177049 :TeruFSX!~quassel@pool-116-152.res.carleton.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312436905 179091 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. In theory, Linux could have as good backwards compatibility as Microsoft tends to, regarding ABI... < 1312436974 767913 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it'd be worthwhile to try and set up a scheme whereby a modern distro could pull that off. < 1312436986 296810 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why yes, it runs Netscape! 0.93!" < 1312437076 261031 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, arn't the syscalls rather stable? < 1312437108 262853 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: Exceptionally. < 1312437126 952238 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: What you need to do to pull this off is all in userspace. < 1312437147 604036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~$ wget ftp://archive.netscape.com/archive/navigator/3.04/shipping/english/unix/linux12/navigator_gold_complete/netscape-v304-export.x86-unknown-linux-elf.tar.gz < 1312437149 477679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's do this shit < 1312437158 128025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, not resolving :/ < 1312437158 839338 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How stable is glibc? < 1312437177 576608 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://home.mcom.com/archives/ < 1312437185 613132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: static linking < 1312437189 817255 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: Irrelevant; we're talking Linux libc. < 1312437190 772203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, neat < 1312437207 218523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~$ wget http://home.mcom.com/archives/3/netscape-v304-export.x86-unknown-linux-elf.tar.gz < 1312437230 383181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.93 is earliest Linux version, it seems < 1312437244 116197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1312437247 144010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that netscape tgz is a tarbomb < 1312437274 217357 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With, apparently, a dependency on libc4 (and, hence, an a.out ld.so and the a.out binfmt module) < 1312437276 633557 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boom* < 1312437291 200360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./netscape < 1312437291 402168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./netscape: No such file or directory < 1312437292 385103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur rite :( < 1312437303 195930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they even dynamically link it. < 1312437304 526433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so silly. < 1312437307 246580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1312437310 205242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libc.so.5 => not found < 1312437310 407605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf7433000) < 1312437317 349026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the only thing I'm missing is... libdl? < 1312437320 786905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libdl.so.1 => not found < 1312437321 703342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how weird < 1312437335 343301 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll want libc5. Which shouldn't be *too* hard to hunt down. < 1312437341 935203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: um but ldd says six is ok < 1312437342 198900 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo still packages it. :) < 1312437345 758024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1312437346 327253 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It lies. < 1312437346 969147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libc.so.5 => not found < 1312437347 171500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf7433000) < 1312437348 454903 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horribly. < 1312437348 657313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :( < 1312437361 30554 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not "okay", that means "references to both". < 1312437365 291451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/netscape$ apt-cache search libc5 < 1312437365 575599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/netscape$ < 1312437368 218896 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the .6 comes from some other library. < 1312437369 929936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cries. < 1312437393 805648 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://archive.debian.net/sarge/libc5 < 1312437401 838845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarge, nice < 1312437415 286853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://archive.debian.net/sarge/i386/libc5/filelist < 1312437418 501286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'll just surgically extract it < 1312437429 744161 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://archive.debian.net/sarge/ldso You might want this, too. < 1312437436 490523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh goody, it's all fourohfoured < 1312437441 697340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I need to find the archive server < 1312437442 497244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eurgh < 1312437461 693921 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://archive.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libc/libc/libc5_5.4.46-15_i386.deb < 1312437476 312384 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://archive.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/ld.so/ldso_1.9.11-15_i386.deb < 1312437480 425892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thanks < 1312437515 64062 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I suspect you could just barely *build* libc5. < 1312437534 944010 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you'd probably want to use GCC 3 to be safe. < 1312437598 129195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/netscape$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=lib:usr/lib ./netscape < 1312437598 333113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ./netscape: No such file or directory < 1312437598 557121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1312437603 188282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldd says all its dependencies are filled < 1312437623 227402 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably missing ld.so. < 1312437629 858020 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you think I linked to it? < 1312437651 160889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I extracted that, too. < 1312437654 414607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libdl.so.1 => lib/libdl.so.1 (0xf7545000) < 1312437672 406605 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... /lib/ld-linux.so.1? < 1312437719 797151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : /lib/ld-linux.so.1 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf773a000) < 1312437720 666092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312437723 113171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not thirty-two bit is it < 1312437730 691239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is 32 bit. < 1312437751 239444 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not the requested dynamic linker. < 1312437763 127890 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux will try to execute /lib/ld-linux.so.1. < 1312437766 108668 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directly. < 1312437794 665176 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence the "No such file or directory". < 1312437802 393673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=lib:usr/lib /lib/ld-linux.so.2 ./netscape < 1312437802 634841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./netscape: Symbol `_res' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking < 1312437802 635030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./netscape: Symbol `_sys_errlist' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking < 1312437802 635137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1312437804 246071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312437831 835159 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want http://archive.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/ld.so/ldso_1.9.11-15_i386.deb < 1312437842 210908 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, /lib/ld-linux.so.1 from it. < 1312437849 28175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hey, you're in Colorado Springs, right? < 1312437852 42663 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1312437852 245004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And oh, didn't realise it had that. < 1312437861 168087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just was reminded of you by http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/haskell-for-kids-introduction/ < 1312437864 22034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("You’re asking about the town for my class? Colorado Springs, CO.") < 1312437865 94991 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if you hit problems related to having some of your shared libs built on glibc (the new ones) and some code built on libc5, even if you got all that stuff to resolve. < 1312437880 231214 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just try to do that sort of stuff in a completely-from-the-sarge-age chroot or something. < 1312437885 698480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/netscape$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=lib:usr/lib lib/ld-linux.so.1 ./netscape < 1312437885 953543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1312437886 156162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp. < 1312437899 76990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sarge age is only 2005, you know; I'd want something much older. < 1312437919 411649 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but something based on libc5. < 1312437932 727013 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's the list of libraries for that, anyways? < 1312437941 654472 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312437955 305438 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(pwd)/lib:$(pwd)/usr/lib might help. < 1312438000 498337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Haha, really? < 1312438014 26053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't. < 1312438021 807798 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a thought. < 1312438028 870874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only one thing for it... GDB! < 1312438047 42756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. < 1312438047 244886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xf7ff8cec in _dl_boot () < 1312438047 922264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1312438064 319354 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :debootstrap in a 'potato' or something. (Note: not sure if it can actually install something that old.) < 1312438185 327565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=112778 < 1312438185 897639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1312438246 749426 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how well its oldlibs/libc5 thing goes either, but even hamm is libc6-based. 'bo' has a libc5 in base, but... < 1312438300 942865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1312438314 582677 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So ok, I went to install Bo:# debootstrap bo /mnt/hda7 http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive/ < 1312438314 785615 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/bo < 1312438314 785797 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doh! I didn't know a script would be required. Suprisingly though, it appears that there are scripts that will let me go all the way back to Slink." < 1312438329 419398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You want me to go for buzz, maybe? :-) < 1312438339 854217 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's binaries for it in archive.debian.org. < 1312438347 325477 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course if you *want*... < 1312438396 311831 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's 'bout Gentoo's package? < 1312438469 481538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ahh, I've found out that apt-get wasn't included until the release of Slink in '98! I may have to use a version of apt-get that is newer than the actual distro, depending on how far back I go. (think it'll werk?)" < 1312438487 33425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ok, I've downloaded the Bo (Peep) base (http://debian.crosslink.net/debian-archive/dists/Debian-1.3.1/main/disks-i386/current/base1_3.tgz)." < 1312438489 434689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS SO THRILLING. < 1312438516 58184 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gentoo-distfiles.mirrors.tds.net/distfiles/lib-compat-1.4.2.tar.bz2 < 1312438529 402245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh gawd. What is it. < 1312438533 635021 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc5. < 1312438538 884509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1312438546 292395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the dependency of all my other libraries on glibc is breaking Netscape < 1312438550 633390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[asterisk]Netscape. < 1312438551 60661 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an older ABI of stdlibc++. < 1312438552 730738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I should really chroot. < 1312438576 294593 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you'll need lib-compat-loki-0.2, too? < 1312438601 272160 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, that relies on libc6... < 1312438720 483781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this guy is my hero < 1312438839 567376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's been possible to run a sid installation that's upgraded automatically every single time sid was updated from the mid-nineties to present? pikhq? < 1312438840 276942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1312438844 991649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any hard-breaking changes in sid ever? < 1312438869 198465 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312438895 251454 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1312438905 385221 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "hard". < 1312438953 731008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As in "there is no way to recover a system in this state without basically reinstalling". < 1312438963 633442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, no way to fix it without replacing the dpkg/apt database. < 1312438971 667468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a way that destroys all information about installed packages. < 1312438972 95985 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1312438990 12166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an impressive track-record, if sid has never actually broken every system. < 1312438992 437166 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I'd be willing to bet that it'll not boot on some updates. < 1312439018 67847 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sid is, contrary to popular belief, not where they actually do development. < 1312439040 588881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I know. < 1312439040 791046 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the least stable testing branch. < 1312439064 548142 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your concept of "hard-breaking" is just very, very hard to happen, anyways. < 1312439111 552576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, system-booting failures are unavoidable. < 1312439114 522506 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since basically it just means "sh and dpkg stopped working". < 1312439122 276752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just asking if you can maintain a sid system from the 90s to present without getting a hex editor and twiddling bits. :p < 1312439154 408011 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'd be a little bit wary of the switch from bash to dash for /bin/sh. < 1312439174 756261 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone might have fucked up a boot script or /etc/profile or something. :P < 1312439420 318042 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, did you get my msg? < 1312439458 973465 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: What msg? < 1312439467 957153 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what is broken with awk < 1312439471 402228 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1312439496 963896 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically printf's field width specifiers end up counting bytes, instead of counting characters < 1312439511 195490 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe gawk is fucked. < 1312439522 373978 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have a character that's two bytes, the field ends up being one character narrower < 1312439528 666581 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice, but mawk does the same thing < 1312439543 432364 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's some underlying mechanism, maybe they both use a system call that's fucked up on ubuntu < 1312439555 256422 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same behavior on busybox awk... < 1312439572 311212 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on busybox musl awk. < 1312439589 166215 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i asked in #awk and some people have it working while some don't < 1312439602 692202 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you set your LC_ALL when invoking the code? < 1312439614 515247 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's irrelevant for musl. < 1312439627 512170 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only locale on musl is C.UTF-8 < 1312439719 681474 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1312439761 712358 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312439782 660274 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i wonder, what could be broken? < 1312439788 967960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf. < 1312439932 8384 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's probably just thinking char = character. < 1312439975 598248 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, < 1312439975 800210 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("%'.2f", 1234567.89); < 1312439976 2536 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : results in "1234567.89" in the POSIX locale, in "1234567,89" in < 1312439976 2715 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : the nl_NL locale, and in "1.234.567,89" in the da_DK locale. < 1312439981 421206 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from the printf manual < 1312440003 322322 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ LC_ALL=da_DK gawk 'BEGIN{printf("%'"'"'.2f\n", 1234567.89) }' < 1312440003 607781 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234567.89 < 1312440039 971986 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orrrr it's not using C printf. < 1312440046 165284 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1312440076 982395 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWEVER, the fact that many awk's have the exact same problem makes me think it's some linux lib < 1312440090 619374 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what OS have you been trying on pikhq? < 1312440569 180535 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: Linux, with 2 different libcs. < 1312440582 289006 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of which I can vouch for. :P < 1312440626 604807 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking at the strace < 1312440638 496404 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to be using the OS printf < 1312440674 458689 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what's gconv? that's something to do iwth locale right? < 1312440746 730457 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://souleyedigitalmusic.bandcamp.com/album/pppppp-the-vvvvvv-soundtrack <3 < 1312440838 74901 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no game music that I dislike. < 1312440845 417088 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for isolated songs in some games < 1312441110 311876 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's glibc's bundled iconv implementation, isn't it? < 1312441136 993 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also strace will not show printf ever, since it traces syscalls, not library functions. < 1312441198 948944 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think awk uses its own printf, though. Otherwise it'd have to parse the format string to know which sort of types to pass to the libc printf. < 1312441212 243591 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312441269 44511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf is totally a syscall doood. < 1312441382 303545 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't all C functions? < 1312441557 544843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :totes < 1312443897 315066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder if there's a nice way to define isomorphisms in Haskell nicer than (a->b, b->a) < 1312443901 703608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cat a b, cat b a) :-) < 1312444198 193012 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312445200 372180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x -> let (x'r) = to g x in let (x'',r') = to f x in (x'', (r,r')) < 1312445200 747551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 11): < 1312445200 949902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "(" < 1312445200 950090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting "()", natural, identifier or "in" < 1312445205 650234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1312445208 645574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x -> let (x',r) = to g x in let (x'',r') = to f x in (x'', (r,r')) < 1312445209 15067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 11): < 1312445209 217567 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "(" < 1312445209 217740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting "()", natural, identifier or "in" < 1312445245 882936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x -> (fst (to f (fst (to g x))), (snd (to g x), snd (to f x)) < 1312445246 270250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 33): < 1312445246 472704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "," < 1312445246 472788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or ")" < 1312445250 530903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x -> (fst (to f (fst (to g x)), (snd (to g x), snd (to f x)) < 1312445250 960626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 32): < 1312445251 163092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "," < 1312445251 163267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or ")" < 1312445262 397957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x -> (fst (to f (fst (to g x))), (snd (to g x), snd (to f x))) < 1312445262 795766 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap ((,) . fst . to f . fst . to g) (ap ((,) . snd . to g) (snd . to f)) < 1312445272 1872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1312445489 165715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \x -> here (to f x) < 1312445489 451609 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here . to f < 1312447644 786469 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312448275 298848 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl (\x y z -> z z y z x) < 1312448275 500975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (flip . join . flip (join id)) < 1312448281 98127 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl (\x y z -> z $ z $ y $ z $ x) < 1312448281 300747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :((ap id . ap id) .) . flip (.) . flip id < 1312448292 632083 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl (\x y z -> (z, z, y, z, x)) < 1312448292 834294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (flip . join . flip (join (,,,,))) < 1312448372 494226 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312448960 530771 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312449021 699338 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312449026 131518 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1312449072 990535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1312449117 477760 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thursday. < 1312449131 256740 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No need to get down on Thursdays. < 1312449539 289791 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, how sensationalist can the Daily Mail get? < 1312449559 835559 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MPs to vote on death penalty" < 1312449604 527714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312449616 280094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They forgot "Yay!" :( < 1312449649 835896 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1312449718 701653 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cite an e-petition of all things < 1312449796 52185 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An e-petition that hasn't been released < 1312450251 235622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, um, that's a credible story, apart from the "voting" bit. < 1312450259 744331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/04/death-penalty-e-petition-commons < 1312450285 558583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking up the blog mentioned, uh, correlates it: http://order-order.com/ < 1312450338 764419 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever played pokemon card and the opponent has 1 side-card remain and you have 6 side-card remain you didn't knock out any of opponent's cards yet, but your opponent ran out of cards before either of you can pick up the side-cards? < 1312450352 493118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the time. < 1312450467 842828 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you think I played GENGAR [Lv38] on HAUNTER [Lv17] even though I had enough energy for NIGHTMARE but not for DARK MIND, and had no use for the CURSE power? < 1312450487 338132 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you like Geengar? < 1312450499 551904 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Geengar/Gengar/ < 1312450509 272191 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No, that isn't the reason. There is a better reason. < 1312450552 234586 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Gengar is more than twice Haunter's level < 1312450558 571716 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Whether or not I like Gengar is not relevant. Also, this is a situation which has only happened to me once so far) < 1312450562 972107 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no type-thingy baad thing < 1312450569 778742 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weakness < 1312450609 427898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Level is not relevant in this game (except for distinguishing the cards). And both cards have the same Weak/Resist as each other. < 1312450718 909027 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you only have one card? < 1312450767 509890 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That isn't it either. < 1312450789 118043 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want the text of those cards repeated? < 1312450846 27620 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1312450927 331799 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENGAR [Lv38] Stage 2 - HAUNTER E: { @ } HP: 8 W: - R: { # } RC: 1 - CURSE: Unless this card is sleep/confuse/paralyze, you can once per turn, move one damage from one of opponent's pokemon to another. - { @@@ } DARK MIND [3]: If opponent has bench pokemons, select one and does 1 damage to that card. < 1312451008 827976 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAUNTER [Lv17] Stage 1 - GASTLY E: { @ } HP: 5 W: - R: { # } RC: 1 - TRANSPARENCY: When an attack affects this card while this card is not sleep/confuse/paralyze, you must toss a coin. If heads, this card is unaffected by the attack. - { @* } NIGHTMARE [1]: Defending pokemon is now sleeping. < 1312451034 889771 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: The { * } means you can use any energy, while { @ } means requires only that kind of energy card) < 1312451063 972451 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no idea < 1312451126 929706 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this help? RECYCLE ENERGY Energy { rc } - Provides { * } energy. When discarded from play, return this card to your hand. < 1312451154 909907 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: The { rc } is an abbreviation used when listing attached energy to a card. The * in a cost can use this kind or the basic energy, but the @ cannot use this) < 1312451187 224390 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! I made a mistake. HAUNTER [Lv17] should be RC: 0 < 1312451204 933508 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now hopefully you know. < 1312451217 352748 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still there are other strange things about the situation it happened in. < 1312451249 438172 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't work it out < 1312451263 307653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then I will type one more card. < 1312451346 410988 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEFAIRY [Lv15] Basic E: { * } HP: 5 W: { # } R: { @ } RC: 1 - { * } WIND: Switch opponent's active pokemon card with one of their bench pokemons of your choice. - { ** } SHINE [1]: Defending pokemon is now asleep. < 1312451395 899511 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were going to use the Haunter with the recycle energy to make the clefairy wipe out the opponent with wind < 1312451472 180832 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wind does no damage, and the opponent's weak/resist is not relevant either. But, yes I did play an evolution card FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF INCREASING MY RETREAT COST. How often does *that* ever happen? < 1312451529 507757 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least once? < 1312451635 73785 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1312451647 945778 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it happened. Yet because of that, I won, even though the opponent never took any damage for the rest of the game. And, they had only 1 side-card remaining (they knocked out 5 of my pokemons) while I had 6 side-cards (I never knocked out any of their pokemons). I also had to guess the number of energy cards in my opponent's hand as it turned out. < 1312451722 12321 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this ever happen to you as strange as this situation is? < 1312451789 165899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My opponent had rain dance and all that stuff. I still won, however. < 1312451844 837160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312451879 500906 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you play. < 1312452024 966435 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once won a game of chess with pretty much a rook and a few pawns < 1312452033 505074 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When my opponent had most of their pieces left < 1312452181 491569 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I made an Ook derivative, would anyone try to kill me? < 1312452192 513674 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: So you have done chess. I fail to remember which ways I have won and lost in chess. I am not a particularly good player at chess. I play much better at pokemon card. < 1312452225 988096 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My opponent had horrible pawn structure < 1312452242 155017 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 8 regular english words mapped onto the brainfuck instructions < 1312452298 775270 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as: "You", "are", "a", "smelly", "piece", "of", "dog", "shit" < 1312452349 639475 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happens too much < 1312452350 927732 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: the is a and or but with what < 1312452357 575177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And other words have no meaning < 1312452381 974419 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I realized that teres another way it can go. < 1312452383 877079 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: see the list on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Joke_language_list of brainfuck with translated instructions < 1312452455 833886 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312452459 463709 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most english of those looks like fuckfuck < 1312452504 221782 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. < 1312452518 368241 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would help if i actually knew brainfuck < 1312452522 76788 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i don't xD < 1312452524 342289 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple < 1312452532 577590 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumping to the page < 1312452667 152557 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1312452672 519806 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is brainfuck self modifying or is the program separate from the tape? < 1312452705 26735 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one < 1312452714 650341 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't imagine why i assume it to be self modifying < 1312453416 101570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what about 8 regular english words mapped onto the brainfuck instructions < 1312453416 387525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1312453416 971285 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE < 1312453419 10294 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIE DIE DIE < 1312453421 8258 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe < 1312453484 695690 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :self modifying brainfuck would be interesting < 1312453578 627654 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1312453617 347958 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :int a[100]; int p=0; char prog[100]; int prog_p=0; 1)p++; 2)p--; 3)a[p]++; 4)a[p]--; 5)cout<>a[p]; 7)if(!a[p])prog_p=next(prog,prog_p); 8)if(a[p])prog_p=prev(prog,prog_p); ... int next(int prog[100],int prog_p){while(prog[prog_p]!=']')prog_p++;return prog_p;} ... int prev(int prog[100],int prog_p){while(prog[prog_p]!='[')prog_p--;return prog_p;} < 1312453626 184672 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think i understand it < 1312453765 30263 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks like a translation that's broken w.r.t. nested loops, on a quick glance. < 1312453782 104645 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup... i didn't think of that >.< < 1312453794 580396 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a 'nestedness' counter < 1312453801 375111 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why noone can write an entire program in one chat post < 1312453804 969798 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312453822 60577 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, except lifthrasiir. < 1312453952 565327 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the feedbacks < 1312454001 360980 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems that what went wrong is i misread "matching ]" as "next ]" kind of wishful thinking < 1312454070 242436 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : self modifying brainfuck would be interesting < 1312454079 755434 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it has been done ~20 times. < 1312454168 67403 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1312454315 844136 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How goes the BF battle? < 1312454330 890440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Battle? < 1312454332 599650 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck reminds me of those arcade machine initials entry systems < 1312454343 87367 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312454376 746722 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of a turing machine except more difficult to change state in < 1312454417 254523 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oerjan and coppro were trying to prove that BF is Turing complete with only three unbounded cells < 1312454427 348733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1312454519 431034 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i consider a NES controller. up = + down = - left = < right = > B = . A = , Start = [ Select = ] < 1312454537 392036 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: You'll get a hand cramp if you consider it that way < 1312454558 341771 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start and Select might be the other way around i can't be sure < 1312454571 175888 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah < 1312454579 394002 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do X and Y do then < 1312454587 578376 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be SNES < 1312454595 688841 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the square button? < 1312454597 103512 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and 2? < 1312454597 531494 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: SHORYUKEN < 1312454599 973703 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the white and black buttons? < 1312454603 369114 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about this joystick here < 1312454608 829276 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm < 1312454611 504591 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wave my arm like this what does that do < 1312454620 484205 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE THE SIXAXIS < 1312454666 81216 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing would be much more understandable without the [ and ] < 1312454675 41516 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you had a NES zapper? < 1312454675 675611 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yeah < 1312454678 467789 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a power glove? < 1312454680 978408 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] are what make brainfuck brain fuck < 1312454718 975931 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312455042 165712 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we should all just use Brainfuck with no loops, that's the most useful language ever. < 1312455063 440393 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so on looking at some page it says "Matching [] before execution is fastest," < 1312455071 423093 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... the closest thing to outright hostility I've ever seen fizzie get. < 1312455092 478984 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think I've been more hostile, that was downright tame. < 1312455099 838983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, WHEN < 1312455104 755757 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE NEVER ANGRY < 1312455110 1808 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Perhaps it was just a dream. < 1312455129 37286 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what this tells me is that [ and ] could be rewritten as "JZ x" and "JNZ x" with all jump addresses precalculated < 1312455147 658527 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1312455148 800744 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the idea < 1312455169 674227 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck was designed as a language with an easy compiler < 1312455181 126759 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is somewhat less of a brainfuck once you see it that way :-? < 1312455192 611544 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even fungot does that much when it "compiles" to the bytecode format it actually executes, IIRC. < 1312455192 898345 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: when a speaker transition occurs. if a criminal case can be revoked by directive. the recordkeepor for offices need not be stayed or vacated. the initiating speaker ceases to be < 1312455222 609768 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: im dumb so its ok. < 1312455283 57902 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly I just wanted to get some chat from the bot. < 1312455291 100685 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style something-else-except-that-agora-nonsense < 1312455291 303003 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1312455291 303205 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312455302 873344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1312455303 75666 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1312455307 996613 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Can the sword alone stop? < 1312455308 425798 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins! the structural damage is severe. the tale? my, your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone?! then i'll repair the masamune! < 1312455314 180282 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312455337 557147 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It used to have -- maybe it still has -- a bug where it goes into "sword alone can't stop" loop occasionally.) < 1312455344 962369 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you going to start with the death threats again? < 1312455345 164901 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! ayla like crono! strong! what's the big deal? so what if we won a war out there! can't it see i love my daddy! the children are going! < 1312455355 768542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, yay! < 1312455355 970880 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! eat! fun! < 1312455365 327382 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one hyper bot. < 1312455375 485089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what shall we eat? < 1312455375 687237 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's time you jumped off this mortal coil... < 1312455380 509822 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1312455384 483174 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1312455389 585110 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my naive attempt at a bf interpreter which i posted before showed my initial ignorance of the [ and ] :D < 1312455398 559050 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. < 1312455398 761656 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! < 1312455402 653044 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :560) fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. < 1312455431 441623 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too much exclamation! < 1312455434 608656 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a direct quote, but appropriate. < 1312455463 542299 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1312455474 788940 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what is your opinion of brainfuck? < 1312455474 991313 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alon < 1312455479 76499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To all who may be confused, zzo38 is not a bot. < 1312455496 489917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did anything come of Homestuck mode? < 1312455498 644157 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, it still can't stop with the sword. < 1312455510 814271 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. it would be me who puts it into the loop < 1312455517 558136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style pa < 1312455517 760661 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics) < 1312455523 764396 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even more too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! Too much exclamation! < 1312455536 856108 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I just crawled it into plaintext, then forgot about it. Should try it out, small though the dataset is. < 1312455545 376443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, have we ever given zzo38 a Turing test? < 1312455573 26761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I suppose you didn't include the pesterlogs? < 1312455582 116824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1312455588 419654 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, 'small'? < 1312455589 277204 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colors and all. < 1312455591 126285 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't homestuck huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge? < 1312455607 477608 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Most of it is in images/Flash though. There's not *that* much plain text. < 1312455623 64859 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pesterlogs go on for fucking ever < 1312455629 493893 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least now they do < 1312455686 202325 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really; a few thousand lines in total, is about all. I don't think there's usually more than a hundred lines/log. < 1312455743 686686 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, installing Lion < 1312455780 685388 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~roar~ < 1312455790 300790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hmm, that seems hard to believe. < 1312455815 20411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were tonnes and tonnes of long pesterlogs throughout act 5. < 1312455825 75854 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, I don't have the very latest strips, and it's been more text-heavy in the end than in the beginning. < 1312455848 158412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean from Hivebent onwards. < 1312455891 310778 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've fetched up to page 4673, which is like ~1300 pages less. < 1312455932 816146 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... would explain it. < 1312455956 404505 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data was mostly to test the parsing script. < 1312455957 939734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to do this now, if only for the glory of all the pesterlogs being mixed together. < 1312455975 268379 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be some horrific blend of every troll, sprite and boy @.@ < 1312455978 208333 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1312455978 870440 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :boy/girlk < 1312455982 83747 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :human maybe < 1312456023 656067 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current fungot code won't really do punctuation well, and lowercases everything, so it'd lose them quirks. < 1312456024 151900 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you got through the line, but then everyone just plays as tiger woods. inside, he found three computers each with their own game! the biggest of games. if we hit every stupid person, we'd never make it out of the picture, your collection of pac-man merchandise should fetch a tidy sum on ebay. < 1312456067 118721 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312456073 113040 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd still see typing styles < 1312456095 554042 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also we have the +c mode, so no colors. :/ < 1312456100 371372 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :27194 lines of text when line-wrapped to 80 columns. < 1312456130 206666 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of rather uninteresting ones. Like page titles, which are quite often just "==>". < 1312456146 202909 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it also has all the names before lines still < 1312456161 273524 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: brb roaring < 1312456169 337257 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1312456200 209580 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do a really-quick-and-dirty thing for my current data if you wish. Just don't expect anything impressive. < 1312456267 423063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Homestuck is starting to look like it's on the threshold of EoA5. < 1312456283 996235 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :EoA5? < 1312456284 993417 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312456459 714740 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :14216 "good" lines, I guess that's more than some of the existing sets. < 1312456497 141547 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, DO IT < 1312456607 824288 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing it. I'm making this happen. (Or at least trying to. I can't quite recall how to use my scripts.) < 1312456947 255412 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally I'd try to use some fancy ^code magic to online-alter the styles list, but let's just do it the boring way this time. < 1312456948 788844 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Quit: OH NO < 1312456982 248311 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that I haven't even tested the thing, and it might just be broken in a non-amusing way. < 1312456993 423197 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1312456995 805710 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312456996 8251 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312456998 125171 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312456998 327742 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312457002 419947 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There you: go. < 1312457009 144670 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: have you ever really gone so far etc < 1312457009 347246 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: is it!!! 38'( tricked john into skipping on a groove its tracing ' round the earth, preparing for a symphony it fears impossible. so here are a couple things i have not even encountered the black king. before they were exiled by some means of dark prognostication and the advantages, to play pranks. < 1312457013 979474 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good to em < 1312457032 861600 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, oh my god this is amazing. < 1312457033 64389 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: like just reverse and/ or'ing the flower pot. the items they contain a viable in the redrom, and vice versa. over the last one. wait no, that just made you disappear" and stuff < 1312457152 165567 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Some day you'll learn how to use " properly. But that day is not today. < 1312457152 407373 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so that is like < 1312457174 171174 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: It's not, like, tomorrow either. < 1312457174 373290 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so just to review, your schemes, convoluted. you are planning a heist in your underground hideout. implement nefarious as you might, you can't out troll me in these like < 1312457382 169246 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :request < 1312457393 151294 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse text from every sbahj panel/comic and add it in < 1312457401 841943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu, not enough text. < 1312457433 986827 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to what's already added for homestuck < 1312457533 724388 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure such a small drop would really be that visible in the output. < 1312457542 914965 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus OCR. :/ < 1312457570 143710 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you going to give me death threats on this setting as well? < 1312457570 346033 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: in a good way though because it is just glittery powder with no magical frivolity and practical japery. this one looks really old, perhaps an original printing. could a bunch of your bro's weird nude puppets strewn around haphazardly throughout different points in the kids' game session. < 1312457582 345414 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only finitely many of them < 1312457587 456249 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how do you give death threats in a good way. < 1312457587 695985 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? joining a particularly interesting series of really coy riddles about it and stop the thief in the throes of an unraveling alibi. " the massacre of syrs gnelph was not as written a message you got, my brother, and we just keep the safe or tub handy or that it is your backup hat. problem solved, you guess. at the last minute she flung through skaian defense. < 1312457631 114471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, your hate for me is pure pumpkin seeds? < 1312457631 398056 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that is a winner's attitude, and there is no particularly good human translation for this concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, li < 1312457654 801189 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, another sword that can't stop. < 1312457662 590872 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really should implement the backoffs. < 1312457669 675567 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with those repeats < 1312457669 878094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, by any chance, can the sword alone not stop the linear concept? < 1312457670 80236 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just as i was initially believed they were new additions. for that. busy < 1312457776 713582 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: See, it's because it's a variable-length n-gram model, and fungot's code always uses the longest-length n-grams there are in the model. So there's quite a few places where there's either a 1 or close-to-1 probability for always continuing with a particular word. < 1312457776 916029 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also it looks so 8ad! that is the case, it is a free card in your sylladex and let's see, who else would it be the same of you. business as usual for blue bloods. < 1312457830 761812 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VariKN toolkit it uses to build the model calculates appropriate backoff weights, but my sampler doesn't use those. < 1312457902 84702 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1312457902 323678 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1312457914 178969 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can clearly see from lines 129-135, it just keeps going down that road. < 1312457927 597895 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1312457930 867914 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in befunge @.@ < 1312458014 917926 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the main reason I haven't really managed to motivate myself to fix the "unclosed ()s and ""s" problem. The Perl script I have for testing does those well, by keeping a stack of opened things and refusing mismatching paired delimiters. < 1312458094 38624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312458278 266379 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312458372 10296 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312458392 979835 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312458401 300039 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we're back < 1312458415 411946 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayeeeeeeeeeeee < 1312458473 426510 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today's IWC annotatin made me think < 1312458482 89218 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANDREW HUSSIE IS COVERED IN BRAS < 1312458483 246629 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :S < 1312458720 821070 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the first way better < 1312458741 707372 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, am I the only one who finds the phrase "covered in bees" hilarious? < 1312458757 531889 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1312458773 221988 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. Even the word "bees" can make me smile. It's the oddest thing. < 1312458790 267873 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a great uncle who's a beekeeper < 1312458838 218457 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colloquially known as "a beeper". (Not really.) < 1312458840 544353 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet he laughs a lot < 1312459027 238289 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the bee's knees < 1312459303 45392 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps even the wasp's nipples. < 1312459333 758009 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damnit... can't concentrate < 1312459357 318704 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you need to concentrate on? < 1312459368 801789 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will show what i am doing < 1312459422 534727 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am saying that there is an expression like: 4bitTruthTable 1bitVariable 1bitVariable .. examples are (AND 0 1) (XOR 1 1) < 1312459442 371117 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2bitTruthTable 1bitVariable , examples are (NOT 1) < 1312459458 976883 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :These can be combined indefinitely: (AND (NOT 1) (AND 0 (AND 1 1))) < 1312459477 728917 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1312459495 626202 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now im getting stuck trying to write actual rules to describe this.. such as: 4bitTruthTableExpression = 4bitTruthTable 1bitVariable 1bitVariable < 1312459511 367516 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: ImmediateValue = 1bitVariable < 1312459543 343477 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use prefixes < 1312459558 846634 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :given everything can be described by NANDs < 1312459559 662779 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Values and expressions all have an additional 1 < 1312459562 803959 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't make it more complex than you need it to be < 1312459578 357578 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brackets are 01 and 00 < 1312459579 203344 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have nearly enough experience with backus naur forms.. but.. basically i can't figure out the kinds of rules need to be made to express it < 1312459632 417196 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I can't tell which direction these statements should be going < 1312459640 271986 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the only expression allowed is NAND < 1312459657 445644 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND 1 0 can be expressed as... < 1312459672 389356 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as an example, don't actually do it O_O < 1312459687 288360 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am saying that a truth table is 4bits, and that what the bits are doesn't actually matter < 1312459711 498492 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in EBNF you can't specify to have a certain number of tokens < 1312459714 616091 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAND (NAND 1 0) (NAND 1 0) < 1312459717 408771 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :only zero/one/many in branches and loops < 1312459734 383362 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which becomes 0011100100111001 < 1312459735 666976 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ensuring the number of tokens is correct is a job for something differen < 1312459772 175217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312459796 416359 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. i am looking for a way to describe the substitution rules < 1312459808 155785 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we scrap prefixes and use letters for variables < 1312459823 660180 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about lots and lots of regexes, will that work? < 1312459825 375435 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312459829 754938 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :where "AND" would more formally look like 4bittruthtable0001 < 1312459840 156052 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to compile it or anything < 1312459843 595154 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:03:01: If I made an Ook derivative, would anyone try to kill me? < 1312459848 573177 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312459855 286782 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :go deeper, make a Cow derivative < 1312459869 673589 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But cows only say moo! < 1312459874 340870 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're scary! < 1312459893 527156 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And orang-utans say Eek! as well as Ook! < 1312459908 260287 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want a BNF grammar for that sort of expressions, it sounds remarkably straight-forward. Something to the style of Exp ::= BinExp | UnExp | Immediate; BinExp ::= "(" BinOp Exp Exp ")"; UnExp ::= "(" UnOp Exp ")" and then suitable rules for UnOp/BinOp/Immediate. < 1312459908 974784 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOK AY < 1312459931 354413 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like he doesn't want a grammar but substitution rules < 1312459938 810089 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. (NOT 1) = (2bitTT10 1) = (0) < 1312459947 978223 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the original question sounded like a grammar. < 1312459951 986418 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312459992 342546 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i need more states < 1312459993 744631 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, about that succession fort. < 1312460012 13897 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :immediate0, immediate1, variable < 1312460027 596742 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just call it an identifier < 1312460038 114133 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :an identifier is either 0, 1 or resolves to one of those two < 1312460063 641465 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im doing it to sort of concrete my ideas about term rewriting and truth tables :P < 1312460066 918965 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom_hoover: Dwarf Fortress? < 1312460071 783718 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, of course. < 1312460077 69461 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sorta caught up to me < 1312460083 592659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you not have tab completion or something? < 1312460093 847029 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1312460107 314229 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't want it < 1312460117 476002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why? < 1312460123 198613 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: something like (2BitTT(a,b) 0) = a, (2BitTT(a,b) 1) = b ? < 1312460125 2079 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm not used to it < 1312460129 22482 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be weird < 1312460159 274416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some of sirc's features: ircII-like -- with enhancements like built-in "tabkey" handling --" < 1312460176 258977 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Going by realname; didn't want to CTCP.) < 1312460177 388954 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tab makes "/m nickserv" < 1312460224 998285 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just plain tab is often "message to last messaged-to person"; but are you saying "ph" also does that? < 1312460245 258715 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/m nickserv" < 1312460254 755382 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one weird client. < 1312460279 960697 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1312460320 355981 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't used to use tab completion either, but it doesn't make the lack of it any less weird. < 1312460396 599871 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well.. i am presupposing that "d = 2BitTT(a,b) c" means, if c = 0 then d = a, else if c = 1 then d = b < 1312460414 636746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, shouldn't that at least me /m nickserv identify? < 1312460423 263289 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1312460430 938564 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that was the idea < 1312460434 782350 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312460441 652999 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have it drawn up in a spreadsheet < 1312460443 771943 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Not if it's the "new message to the last person I was talking to" key, like tab-without-context often is. < 1312460479 468143 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone made a language where you represent, in ASCII, a wired circuit? < 1312460480 549059 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so funge-ish < 1312460497 370889 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Wierd, but that's not it < 1312460506 162920 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think my confusion might come from having not actually implemented anything < 1312460540 562617 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: if you renamed it to tt2Bit, you could even make it in haskell < 1312460562 834116 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tt2Bit (a,_) 0 = a; tt2Bit (_,b) 1 = b < 1312460564 247652 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i could remove the word bit also < 1312460571 357166 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What about the bloodline game? < 1312460601 280436 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wierd and Rail both do the "codeflow along explicitly drawn paths" thing -- incidentally, I rather like Rail -- but it's not really circuit simulation if that's what you're looking for. < 1312460606 270046 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, well, elliott expressed enthusiasm; it might be worth trying. < 1312460607 354618 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you like it? :D < 1312460692 370655 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Who wants to start? < 1312460695 890012 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Circute is an ASCII-represented CA that looks like NAND-based circuits. < 1312460713 637882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I suspect it'd have to be you, since I've only been playing for about 2 days. < 1312460717 182993 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the elegance of your code suggests i really need to learn haskell < 1312460732 789877 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: It's slightly like Wireworld-in-ASCII. < 1312460828 108440 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: haskell is pretty succinct < 1312460900 720272 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's p. close < 1312460910 161081 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: this sounds a little bit obvious to me, but then it's been at least 25 years since i learned about truth tables :P < 1312461041 578053 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let tt4Bit (a,_,_,_) 0 0 = a; tt4Bit (_,b,_,_) 0 1 = b; tt4Bit (_,_,c,_) 1 0 = c; tt4Bit (_,_,_,d) 1 1 = d; and = tt4Bit (0,0,0,1); or = tt4Bit (0,1,1,1) in and 1 (or 1 0) < 1312461042 568928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1312461109 574835 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... < 1312461117 511216 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> and [True, or [True, False]] < 1312461117 795912 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short. < 1312461118 410152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1312461205 389267 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Ix < 1312461205 852291 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Ord a) => Ix a where < 1312461206 54725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : range :: (a,a) -> [a] < 1312461206 54916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : index :: (a,a) -> a -> Int < 1312461206 55021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : inRange :: (a,a) -> a -> Bool < 1312461206 55126 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : rangeSize :: (a,a) -> Int < 1312461231 452083 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the main idea of it is for things like trying to get through my head what: tt4Bit(1,1,0,1) it_is_raining the_ground_is_wet , really means < 1312461318 786317 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Bool -> Bool -> Bool < 1312461319 218572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (&&) :: Bool -> Bool -> Bool < 1312461319 420901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (||) :: Bool -> Bool -> Bool < 1312461319 421060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Bool (&&) :: Bool -> Bool -> Bool < 1312461325 336155 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, no implication there. < 1312461339 937998 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_2001:_A_Space_Odyssey < 1312461345 341266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wheat often uses anagrams as evidence to support his theories. For example, of the name Heywood R. Floyd, he writes "He suggests Helen - Helen of Troy. Wood suggests wooden horse - the Trojan Horse. And oy suggests Troy." Of the remaining letters, he suggests "Y is Spanish for and. R, F, and L, in turn, are in ReFLect." Finally, noting that D can stand for downfall, Wheat concludes that Floyd's name has a hidden meaning < 1312461345 624887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :: "Helen and Wooden Horse Reflect Troy's Downfall"." < 1312461364 245068 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best interpretation. < 1312461374 423502 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let tt4bit = flip $ curry (flip (!!) . index ((0,0),(1,1))) in or = tt4bit [0,1,1,1]; and = tt4bit [0,0,0,1] in and 1 (or 1 0) < 1312461375 214117 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1312461378 895432 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can define implication in terms of not and or, IIRC < 1312461380 135074 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1312461389 864363 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let tt4bit = flip $ curry (flip (!!) . index ((0,0),(1,1))); or = tt4bit [0,1,1,1]; and = tt4bit [0,0,0,1] in and 1 (or 1 0) < 1312461391 53518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instances for (GHC.Num.Num [t1], GHC.Arr.Ix [t1]) < 1312461391 256154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use ... < 1312461395 291890 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Sure, but you can define everything in terms of nand, yet it provides and/or. < 1312461401 672772 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, a → b == b \/ ¬a. < 1312461406 63652 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what exactly is implication? < 1312461413 219459 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's the one < 1312461414 828671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, see above. < 1312461441 88629 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip $ curry (flip (!!) . index ((0,0),(1,1))) < 1312461442 176057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b t. (Num t, Num a, Ix t, Ix a) => a -> t -> [b] -> b < 1312461452 566277 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could never remember the proposition that gets the not :D < 1312461488 27395 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (!!) . index ((0,0),(1,1)) < 1312461488 266667 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example i am looking at says if it is raining then the ground is wet < 1312461488 882635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b t t1. (Num t, Num t1, Ix t, Ix t1) => (t, t1) -> [b] -> b < 1312461509 141036 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: If 2+2 = 5, I am a paper cup < 1312461579 313582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, note that the version of implication I defined is not a terribly intuitive one. < 1312461592 861821 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that could be phrased like: int ground_is_wet = check_if_it_is_raining(); < 1312461609 112203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww < 1312461637 521018 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i see nothing. < 1312461651 939540 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just won't stick for me in my head < 1312461653 384539 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b c -> f (b,c) a < 1312461653 746106 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (flip . (f .) . (,)) < 1312461687 708363 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1312461693 795316 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, you might want to read up on the Curry-Howard isomorphism. < 1312461707 847066 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a b -> burger b a < 1312461708 415994 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip burger < 1312461712 269966 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Heh heh." < 1312461725 252060 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1312461746 108887 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implications are the section of the 4bit truth tables which seem to have never actually been named.. never actually been used < 1312461746 604941 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some reason "flipping burgers" pops into my head every time I see one of those flip sequences.) < 1312461761 853598 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in imperative languages < 1312461785 263016 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let tt4bit = curry . flip $ flip (!!) . index ((0,0),(1,1)); or = tt4bit [0,1,1,1]; and = tt4bit [0,0,0,1] in and 1 (or 1 0) < 1312461786 488388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `(a, b)' against inferred type `[a1]' < 1312461786 690979 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a World Microsoft Excel championship1? < 1312461803 902376 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry . flip $ flip (!!) . index ((0,0),(1,1)) < 1312461804 749022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `(a, b)' against inferred type `[a1]' < 1312461804 951300 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `flip', namely `(!!)' < 1312461804 951402 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(.)', namely `flip (!!)' < 1312461826 824646 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you *entirely* sure you're still making the original more clearer by all this. < 1312461843 619447 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1312461857 123849 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone loves logical and,or,not,xor ... and their counterparts nand nor xnor... but i can't help thinking that the implications and non-implications seem to have been deemed useless for languages like C < 1312461896 430443 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The logical xor isn't really that often used; they didn't even bother with a non-bitwise operator for it in C. (Perhaps because it couldn't be made short-circuiting like and/or.) < 1312461930 817100 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well which means the bitwise one works non-bitwise too < 1312461948 246586 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not when the values aren't 0 or 1. < 1312461957 457071 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other logical operators autobooleanize. < 1312461963 735661 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1312461979 260924 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 && 2 == 1, but 1 ^ 2 == 3. < 1312461995 559988 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's unclear?~ < 1312461998 248494 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can just !!1 ^ !!2 == 0, but... < 1312462010 597976 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so its this autobooleanizing property < 1312462028 169923 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Aw, no implication there. <-- you can use <= < 1312462029 913939 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the other main difference between & and &&; they could've done that for ^^. < 1312462080 236424 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, brilliant. < 1312462133 904702 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "But the arrow's pointing at the wrong direction then." < 1312462172 344615 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always a critic < 1312462192 904937 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does an implication truthtable actually determine? < 1312462249 938469 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see that "it's raining" can be 0 or 1... < 1312462264 794356 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a person looks around and decides.. its_raining = 1 < 1312462273 363212 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :when A is on, it fixes B. when A is off, B can be anything < 1312462327 20628 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: But it's /not/ raining! < 1312462427 613051 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let tt4bit = curry . flip (flip (!!) . index ((0,0),(1,1))); or = tt4bit [0,1,1,1]; and = tt4bit [0,0,0,1] in and 1 (or 1 0) < 1312462429 389000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1312462431 707791 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1312462457 600985 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clear and obvious < 1312462468 315162 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is implication actually useful in code? < 1312462474 130948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A grand victory for pointlessness. < 1312462496 653610 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i struggle to see myself ever actually using implication on 2 bits < 1312462501 203929 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Maybe if you use Agda < 1312462512 107818 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1312462559 574386 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g.: if (a IMPLIES b) blah(); < 1312462561 273699 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: it's probably there, just written in a different way with branches instead < 1312462562 131545 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how can I represent logic gates and flip-flops with single ASCII characters... < 1312462564 119701 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you might by accident have a need for the "!a || b" conditional, with which it is equivalent to, in which case you could use a hypothetical implication operator to confuse people. < 1312462591 905930 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no one thinks of using an implication operator for it < 1312462610 387863 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the cpu support it in an efficient way? < 1312462613 590068 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tyhought about using the same symbols as in C, but | is the up-down wire so it would be confusing < 1312462616 28241 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im guessing not < 1312462623 622248 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, a bitwise implication operator < 1312462648 73496 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Doesn't some BASIC have that? < 1312462657 250467 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1312462664 325824 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw one with almost the full set. < 1312462670 357386 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect that there would be no direct implication operator in the x86 instruction set < 1312462680 129275 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: QBASIC, for example: http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MDli < 1312462682 282956 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it kind of pointless < 1312462687 317543 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IMP operator. < 1312462691 398490 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1312462694 221690 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't seen it used ever. < 1312462701 727439 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Of course you can just !!1 ^ !!2 == 0, but... <-- !1 == !2 is shorter < 1312462702 707743 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok sweet < 1312462703 561437 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1312462705 772423 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :EQV, IMP... < 1312462719 792286 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no NAND? < 1312462721 585247 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya.. see.. i am digging in no mans land < 1312462721 787804 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1312462731 204001 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tru pioneer < 1312462767 228798 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. you know what this means? < 1312462789 26175 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language in which the only boolean operator is the implication < 1312462806 892129 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's equivalent to NAND < 1312462808 896060 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should be doable < 1312462819 903134 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hmm < 1312462822 838287 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you make NOT with implies? < 1312462834 646599 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if you can < 1312462840 443191 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is. < 1312462844 671597 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not < 1312462847 187087 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_completeness#Minimal_functionally_complete_operator_sets < 1312462847 390004 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language is still a language even if its not turing complete < 1312462850 695910 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minimal sets. < 1312462865 787925 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found a location for the bloodline game < 1312462893 97893 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a soft spot for this IMP < 1312462940 216427 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : what does an implication truthtable actually determine? <-- well it's called "material implication". i find that it helps to see it as an implication if it is used with quantifying over a whole bunch of things. "forall x. P(x) or not Q(x)" feels more obviously like an implication that P(x) implies Q(x) than when you are looking at just one case. < 1312462959 212213 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1312462970 806729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, is that location as in paradise or location as in Headshoots? < 1312462973 681703 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forall x. Q(x) or not P(x) < 1312462981 415444 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Temperate < 1312462992 806297 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With good resources < 1312462998 757390 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Temperate Haskell < 1312463012 850092 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, another, Curry-Howardy way of viewing it, is that a → b means that if you have a proof that a is true, you can turn it into a proof that b is true. < 1312463110 988368 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312463127 951812 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : can you make NOT with implies? <-- no. this is the point where i use to link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_lattice which has all the information for such questions, extremely technically. < 1312463204 978281 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found a better location < 1312463212 40155 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, implication gives T_1^infinity, NOT gives UD, and the latter is not directly beneath the former. < 1312463271 256626 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the only thing they're both under is the top T, showing that _together_ they generate everything. < 1312463314 379566 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diagram near the middle) < 1312463348 917976 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i found a possible use for it: if ( x > 50 IMP flag ) printf("X is larger than 50\n"); < 1312463350 470455 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and table to the left of it) < 1312463368 824916 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. no wait i didn't :-s < 1312463372 854515 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even better location < 1312463375 43520 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warm < 1312463376 650906 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't at all.. < 1312463377 531959 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woorland < 1312463386 664302 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/r/d/ < 1312463394 405531 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moderate vegetation < 1312463395 455143 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calm < 1312463396 973872 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brook < 1312463398 889326 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clay < 1312463401 361726 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some soil < 1312463407 603664 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shallow metals < 1312463410 838121 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep metals < 1312463413 166607 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flux stone < 1312463415 211649 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam < 1312463420 27658 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flux stone and spam < 1312463428 732736 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam and flux stone < 1312463437 374401 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam and flux stone and spam < 1312463440 842257 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw T_1^infinity is the rightmost dot, UD is in the middle, third from bottom) < 1312463441 128503 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam and spam < 1312463444 828233 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll stop < 1312463468 694582 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And spam < 1312463503 154847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : can you make NOT with implies? < 1312463512 123699 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can with nonimplication and constants. < 1312463571 833801 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: Here's one: if (quiet IMP critical) log("thing"); that's equivalent to if (!quiet || critical) log("thing"); i.e. "log if we haven't been asked to be quiet, or if the situation is critical", and it's much clearer when written without the IMP in there. < 1312463603 411529 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nonimplication is dual to implication, T_0^infinity :) < 1312463630 813645 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312463652 45934 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the constants are down near the bottom at UP_0 and UP_1 < 1312463790 17213 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I found #esoteric-dwarf-fortress ? < 1312463806 871365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, nah, just use -minecraft. < 1312464168 977706 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: incidentally iirc, satisfiability of your boolean circuits is NP-complete precisely when your building blocks can construct nonimplication < 1312464191 97125 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Minecraft? < 1312464191 812056 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit vague iirc though < 1312464204 99547 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1312464211 425689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Building blocks? < 1312464217 480137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1312464220 820313 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a general term. < 1312464236 118922 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was in relation to You can with nonimplication and constants. < 1312464248 538940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1312464325 691708 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1312464333 225358 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think i get it.. since IMP can be constructed from other things, and is basically a specialization of OR there is not any hidden use for it < 1312464397 364238 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in terms of imperative languages < 1312464424 495793 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, well, as oerjan said, it's not very intuitive unless you're working with quantifiers. < 1312465289 225939 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I came up with a first draft spec for the 'ascii circuitry' language < 1312465378 599472 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I call it... < 1312465421 585039 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASCII circuitry? < 1312465423 544545 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Togic? < 1312465454 804934 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if I should make a befunge pun or if it would be unwarranted < 1312465741 736163 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: bffunge < 1312466048 221507 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/mwOmg.jpg < 1312466445 331986 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done that < 1312466524 783374 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312466962 613935 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wirefunge < 1312467030 182407 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I just realized it needs a way to exit < 1312467134 530986 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it has one \o/ < 1312467134 815539 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                     | < 1312467135 100497 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    /< < 1312467238 9867 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how "funge" that is. < 1312467248 687336 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither, but I can't think of a snazzy name that's not a pun < 1312467249 827265 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you? < 1312467252 879717 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll happily rename it < 1312467264 610401 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no good with names, unfortunately. < 1312467337 123669 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages -- that's quite a big category. < 1312467387 423804 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any pun name you make can't be worse than "Sir. Cut". < 1312467525 188677 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Sir. Cut < 1312467921 229344 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312467922 768856 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312469974 249958 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312470506 683046 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1312470734 956962 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312471284 813589 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1312471383 790123 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1312471466 529854 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1312471674 397504 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Walking dog < 1312471830 272422 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Enjoy being locked in your #matrixofsolidity | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1312471850 534582 :Gregor!Gregor@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1312472080 290876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312472186 766982 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :with implications, i am trying to figure out why it is not the case that i can say if (it_is_raining), then render_my_carpet_as_I_am_indoors(); < 1312472284 363539 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the problem is I can't say if (A) then B; < 1312472302 776245 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean: if (A) then B(); < 1312472421 114294 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could also look like: if (A()) B(); < 1312472572 871839 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ill drop it... i have had all the explanations.. < 1312472589 486292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, what are you going on about? < 1312472598 460341 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can say that; you just said it. < 1312472737 630473 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: what? < 1312472768 780640 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language, what context? < 1312472787 678024 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it that the typical programming line: "if (conditional) then statement();" is not relevant to material implication? < 1312472813 463656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, do you mean logical implication? < 1312472822 600169 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a conditional statement in logic? < 1312472827 198552 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they're different. < 1312472829 958422 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like they have left out the words "do" < 1312472833 991076 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most languages that I know of < 1312472838 285983 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (X) then do Y < 1312472859 841041 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, that's because in logic a conditional does not specify a procedure, it is a statement of truth or false. < 1312472871 754029 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOme languages includ that. < 1312472888 301973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312472892 327368 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that a lot of them leave it out because an aversion to making poeple type letters. < 1312472913 251074 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an implicit "do" which can leave uneducated ones like me a bit peeved < 1312472917 211735 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312472933 906377 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1312472953 370392 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For similar reasons, most languages don't have "set" before assignment. < 1312473011 430491 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :P -> Q is equivalent to ~P v (P ^ Q) where v is or and ^ is and < 1312473060 386359 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, impliation seemed ot be kind of an odd name. < 1312473083 327853 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was (~P) v Q from my researching < 1312473083 594796 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it's not true, it's obviously because the implication is proved false. < 1312473090 309898 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of a language whose conditional statement works like that, because the conditional is either returning some useful data value, or is an imperitive control flow statement that specifies a procedure and not a logical assertion. < 1312473131 317869 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when it's true, it's not really shown to be true, only not shown to be false. < 1312473147 329354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: yes that's equivalent actually. < 1312473155 440516 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312473187 117791 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no... it's not.. :P < 1312473191 386269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours is right. My mistake. < 1312473209 209147 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have been studying this for hours so i am bound to have it right < 1312473211 620497 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :......er, no, they actually are equivalent nevermind. :P < 1312473219 746536 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welll I tihnk they are the same, in binary lgic. < 1312473231 325499 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. tired, as usual. < 1312473252 138813 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If P is not false, it is true. < 1312473266 462049 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: so anyways a conditional in a proof in a conditional in a program as different, more or less. I ca < 1312473274 364708 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :n't really formally show why that is though... < 1312473306 217710 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... s/in/and/ s/as/are/ what the hell. < 1312473315 1730 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a sign that I should sleep, clearly. < 1312473348 626764 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I know that in a program, the statement part of the conditional isn't used to determine wheter the condition it's in is met. < 1312473382 806154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312473397 900229 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though of course you could make it that way if you wanted. < 1312473401 229855 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even conditional expressions, such as the ones in functional languages and some procedural languages, are different. They require an else operand, which is not something that makes sense with the logical conditional. < 1312473501 115173 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) a b = not p || q in if False --> True then "this is not making a truth assertion, but the logical conditional is" else "" < 1312473501 968810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Bool.Bool' < 1312473502 171183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1312473530 405650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) a b = not a || b in if False --> True then "this is not making a truth assertion, but the logical conditional is" else "" < 1312473531 125850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "this is not making a truth assertion, but the logical conditional is" < 1312473596 229858 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, I probably haven't cleared anything up, but oh well. < 1312473652 257869 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312473798 79845 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312473877 94442 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312473924 544119 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : P -> Q is equivalent to ~P v (P ^ Q) where v is or and ^ is and < 1312473926 876008 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1312474005 992621 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312474066 861082 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312474174 337160 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\p q -> not p || (p && q)) <$> [True, False] <*> [True, False] < 1312474175 296991 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [True,False,True,True] < 1312474197 260949 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312474197 463386 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312474203 930348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that not the truth table for a condition? < 1312474307 598099 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312474514 679297 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so.. if (it_is_raining) render_rain(); if (ground_is_wet) render_mud(); if (!(!it_is_raining || ground_is_wet)) error(); < 1312474550 595299 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am trying to imagine practical uses for implications within a program < 1312474608 296089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I completed VVVVVV (with all trinkets and all map) in 3 hours 58 minutes the first time < 1312474612 345558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a little short as games go < 1312474624 206459 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you want something to occur when one thing implies another or you also want the same thing to happen when the condition is false and thus irrelevant, or something. < 1312474628 545368 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, it's not common to use. < 1312474648 325729 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312474663 787727 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you would use it wherever you have the condition ~p v q < 1312474689 152351 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something fits that pattern, it could be rewritten as implication, if the language supports it or if it's defined somewhere. < 1312474694 494385 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a way for the program to catch out a logical incongruity < 1312474704 701444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: someone else I've been talking to online a lot spells eliot with one l and one t, it's disconcerting after getting used to the spelling of your name < 1312474792 395214 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ~p -> q would be the same thing as using || < 1312474911 958481 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a is not a prime number, then it is a composite number. < 1312474921 748222 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, a is a prime number or a composite number. < 1312474949 663832 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... void Implies(int a, int b) { if (!(!a || b)) error(); } ... Implied(hp == 0, gameover); Implied(time_remaining == 0, gameover); < 1312474978 45168 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really stretching there though < 1312475005 965287 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you capitalized Implies which kind of scares me a little. < 1312475020 456017 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spelled it with an s instead of a d also < 1312475036 974171 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in a safe world of variable naming schemes and you brought me out of my safety box. < 1312475044 934702 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a scary world out here. < 1312475053 494279 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at CakeProphet  < 1312475063 907851 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaah! < 1312475068 578096 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's not basic.. where ABC == Abc = abc < 1312475070 413001 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides under pillow. < 1312475109 752307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the contents of the all lowercase variable modifies the result of testing the upper case variable with the title case variable? < 1312475112 908565 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are some odd semantics. < 1312475125 718672 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i just forgot the second = < 1312475134 989684 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course. silly me. < 1312475148 728088 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in basic, the identifier ABC == Abc == abc < 1312475160 6817 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :scared? < 1312475165 677965 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be < 1312475183 239622 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah that's sensible. < 1312475203 522908 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just makes naming similar things of different kinds difficult. < 1312475232 321311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : is that not the truth table for a condition? < 1312475246 366901 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah. there's something satisfying about getting something in the mail 2 days after you order it. < 1312475254 843564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: not in all BASICs < 1312475255 104587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If A is false, A → B is true. < 1312475258 455914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBC BASIC was case sensitive < 1312475263 61636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the case in every logic I know of. < 1312475265 889832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, keywords had to be in uppercase < 1312475267 411818 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of a "holy crap mail is ridiculous" moment. < 1312475277 417974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you couldn't type lowercase by holding shift with capslock on < 1312475283 573955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so programs tended to be all uppercase < 1312475292 592214 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: correct... ~p v ... makes that happen. < 1312475318 572030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, oh, right. < 1312475320 417445 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312475330 506556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, your expression is correct, but there's no need for the and. < 1312475351 706431 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I see that now it's just how I worked it out in my head because I forgot the usual equivalence. < 1312475413 807211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think every programming language should be in upper case. < 1312475431 696210 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to convey forcefulness to the computer. To let it know who is in charge. < 1312475472 757915 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to me if, in C, numl1 => num2; meant if (num1) num2 = 1; < 1312475489 332665 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn typo < 1312475498 208760 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell would much more elegant if the Fibonacci sequence were FIBS = 0 : 1 : ZIPWITH (+) FIBS (TAILS FIBS) < 1312475596 203311 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess tertiary operator does similar < 1312475606 267861 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :trinary^? < 1312475608 135513 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUBLIC STATIC VOID MAIN(STRING[] ARGS) {...} < 1312475611 224697 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ternary < 1312475630 420064 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tertiary is the third of primary, secondary, ... < 1312475637 590975 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ternary is the third of unary, binary, ... < 1312475662 825814 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And trinary is an alternative form of ternary < 1312475683 642132 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey what do you know it is. < 1312475700 178079 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds better really, I just don't see it as often. < 1312475725 296701 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312475788 681828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also nullary technically comes before unary. I don't think there's a step above primary... < 1312475927 881696 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nullary numbers. < 1312475933 12930 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe kindergarden. < 1312475944 885817 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pre-k < 1312475991 854115 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pre-k might just be a US thing. < 1312476072 793911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have nursery before primary school in the UK < 1312476078 711800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that children go there at all, they don't all do < 1312476289 613685 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, so if I plug in my new VGA-to-YPbPr adapter into my laptop's VGA port and my display manager doesn't detect a new monitor, does that mean that my graphics card doesn't support TV-out or does that mean I just need to plug the other end of the adapter into something before I can find out? < 1312476326 187468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how the latter would be possible... so, I'm going with the former most likely. < 1312476867 328707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, if you plug your vanadium gallium to yttrium lead praesodymium adaptor? < 1312476901 507404 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312476922 906659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't have those I'll have to wait to find out. < 1312476942 200429 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not really sure how my hardware would detect that something is plugged into the other end. < 1312476959 227002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, WP has updated its appeals to include one of the sad nobodies that make all the edits. < 1312477166 920961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit count is a really bad measurement of anything < 1312477573 234947 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit count is a pretty good measurement of editing activity, though. < 1312477581 285973 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, not even that. < 1312477598 619047 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....? edits per week? < 1312477610 668434 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you'd need to look at the size of each edit. < 1312477620 31479 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312477797 201289 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that would be a good measurement of spamming, I guess. < 1312477866 150253 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, it would be good. But someone with thousands of typo corrections will probably still have a higher cumulative "edit size" than someone who writes hundreds of paragraph-sized and larger edits. < 1312477896 588183 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they would be close to equal. < 1312477946 348415 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312477949 747186 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :total number of bytes changed would be good, I guess. Factors in revisions as well as new content. < 1312477974 675157 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then people who revert spam, unsourced material, etc, would get an advantage. < 1312478029 398173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallest diff to any previous version of the page is probably a more reasonable metric < 1312478042 934022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd need to ensure that the edits stayed in the page, too < 1312478058 801191 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about when the page has seen heavy spam? < 1312478061 224575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, doing routine admin work, or wikignoming, can rack up edits extremely quickly without doing much real work < 1312478068 496627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's why "any previous version" < 1312478087 793905 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "any previous version" includes spam, is what I meant < 1312478092 195841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really those are important maintenance functions, especially on a site with millions of articles. It's equally important to maintain the existing quality as it is to add new content. Also, improving quality doesn't necessarily take a lot of bytes. < 1312478161 954666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well, the diff against spam will be quite large, so it won't be the smallest < 1312478190 689202 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312478190 891230 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Excess Flood < 1312478724 634029 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I was laying there and dreamed up a chess piece. 1d4 = starting position d4,d5,e4,e5; every turn 1d4 = north, south, east, west; every turn 1d6 = number of steps; It captures anything in it's path but it gets stopped in it's tracks by doing so. Also it is stopped by the edge of the board. < 1312478812 369430 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible additional rules. It could die of hunger if it doesn't capture a piece for N turns. < 1312478935 815112 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312478940 44438 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1312479049 800631 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Eating too many carrots can discolor skin, but it's harmless and temporary < 1312479384 900966 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1312479386 419115 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1312479429 675746 :Nisstyre!~nisstyre@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1312479555 419139 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312480045 372652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312480068 460082 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312480075 769956 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-194.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312480677 365768 :atome!~quassel@78.250.211.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312481091 658911 :atome!~quassel@78.250.211.70 QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Discuter simplement. Partout. < 1312481198 960234 :atome_!~quassel@78.250.211.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312481202 356235 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312481251 461442 :atome_!~quassel@78.250.211.70 QUIT :Client Quit < 1312481297 283070 :atome!~quassel@78.250.211.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312481301 832541 :atome!~quassel@78.250.211.70 QUIT :Client Quit < 1312481337 401586 :atome!~quassel@78.250.211.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312482988 349300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312483148 839560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312484191 158430 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312484301 508306 :pingveno!~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312484961 253522 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1312485385 406499 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Are there any examples of two games of Nomic having diplomatic negotiations with eachother? < 1312485438 648092 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we did have Ambassadors in Agora once, iirc. whether they ever got anything useful done, i'm not sure. < 1312485464 374915 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running a small game of Nomic on the MSPA forums < 1312485473 547159 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we declared war against Rishonomic. < 1312485486 271985 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312485496 794730 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anything come of that? < 1312485521 840959 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: they had the chutzpah to declare us boring :P < 1312485534 932514 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could they!? < 1312485570 477267 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312485603 538376 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they declared basically everyone else their enemy, so of course _we_ had to go to war :P < 1312485611 234424 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(everyone _except_ us) < 1312485670 485624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they declared war on every nomic they knew of but Agora, and did "not go to war with Agora, because they are a generally boring lot" < 1312485675 791167 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not entirely sure how much came of it. rishon _did_ collapse, but i'm not sure if it was agorans' fault < 1312485679 733067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, not way, it was sworn enemy < 1312485689 607730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it collapsed just after repelling an Agoran invasion, for unrelated reasons < 1312485700 410801 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could you invade? < 1312485706 819892 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that even work? < 1312485720 645694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you try to force a rule into the other nomic's ruleset < 1312485722 579888 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like metagame < 1312485730 153559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally via scam < 1312485775 438972 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nomic's a meta-metagame < 1312485823 707087 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it actually is < 1312485843 113124 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets hit by a falling anvil, just in case < 1312485909 406415 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules define how to define the rules < 1312486083 451159 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ais, i know this will be a fun question but i didn't want to hog it... what sort of rules do they try to force into the other Nomic's ruleset? < 1312486096 120987 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1312486245 743098 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think agora went for trying to get rishon to declare agora their masters, or something < 1312486265 583456 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1312486323 919007 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall there may have been something about making that rule unrepealable, as well < 1312486411 605241 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312486432 305835 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1312486653 436272 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5 < 1312487254 537551 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1312487343 520385 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When does a game of Nomic become a Micronation? < 1312487503 930855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far yet, none have managed it, so we don't know < 1312487509 12192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora tried at one point < 1312487637 767611 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are their any constraints on the game? is it confined to a forum or text type of thing? < 1312487647 184294 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^there < 1312487648 852636 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does a micronation have that a nomic doesn't < 1312487668 947442 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: all constraints are temporary, in principle < 1312487678 773648 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they can be repealed < 1312487687 711183 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1312487720 304417 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic has been played on many fora, i'm not sure if any have moved to a radically different one... < 1312487728 667645 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it would be right of me to say that some players will necessarily be evil... < 1312487735 636385 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't understand human nature well enough < 1312487738 725997 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait frc is of course an example < 1312487745 726184 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it moved from nomic world to email < 1312487768 136964 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, suppose for example that some nomic players met up in a shopping center < 1312487778 746117 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might be trapped in a kind of limbo between the two worlds < 1312487788 799250 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: my first nomic game was around a table in a gaming club < 1312487812 719962 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it get very far? < 1312487825 681052 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then someone posted a link to nomic world on the club's email list, and there i was. < 1312487834 470075 :Sulmersal!~Sulmersal@CPE-70-94-60-54.kc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312487837 695490 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it was a one evening thing < 1312487850 244336 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well.. ok like a contrasting game is truth or dare < 1312487868 549232 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agora is older than me < 1312487876 306454 :Sulmersal!~Sulmersal@CPE-70-94-60-54.kc.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1312487882 120100 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. truth or dare being like a ventilation system of the inhibitions and ceaseless agony of existence < 1312487888 584876 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: you _could_ include real life elements, i guess. < 1312487894 923142 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think you should < 1312487902 395474 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean all hell could break loose < 1312487903 535189 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never played truth or date, anyway < 1312487903 961517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what does a micronation have that a nomic doesn't <--- Aerica complained that the situation was the reverse, that Agora wasn't a micronation because it had victory conditions < 1312487916 334685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is truth or date some sort of truth or dare modification? < 1312487916 537093 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1312487922 275487 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dare < 1312487943 376845 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well.. so.. playing around a table at a gaming club... what is the substance of the game? is it played through talking? < 1312487958 118245 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a freudian slip, i've heard _some_ truth and dares can get into such territory < 1312488033 271048 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1312488036 942211 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth or dare is just like an excuse for horny teenagers to make out and laugh at embarassing moments in history < 1312488045 100627 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1312488057 622130 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: ok so you are saying it's _most_ truth and dares. o kay < 1312488084 178336 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok what i mean though... is.. < 1312488096 47349 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth or dare does invoke real life consequences < 1312488110 388411 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be dangerous if nomic ever combined itself with truth or dare somehow < 1312488122 992181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :invoking real life consequences is the whole purpose of truth or dare, isn't it? < 1312488131 835999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reveal some embarassing fact, or do something to create a new embarassing fact? < 1312488142 442575 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: peter suber's original ruleset was intended for table play, anyway. play went around the table with players taking turns. the original ruleset of agora had already removed that aspect. < 1312488167 474267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, people who've played in-person nomic say that having a word processor handy is helpful < 1312488187 483976 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawyers would probably be good at it < 1312488191 941910 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: nomic has a "you can always quit instead" rule for such situations, anyway. < 1312488196 316418 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tooth or Bear: Each turn, either take out your own tooth, or wrestle a bear. < 1312488249 639463 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i am so boring to discuss such things < 1312488299 5171 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOunds like it would be rather difficult to teach a comptuer to play nomi, since it would have to understand arbitrary new rules. < 1312488302 391937 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: oh i vaguely recall agora once passed a rule that all players should brush their teeth properly :P there was a following judgement to the effect that agora _could_ affect real life things, iirc < 1312488320 862916 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1312488335 629647 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not aware that anything else of the kind has been done < 1312488341 866954 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in agora) < 1312488350 847067 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: theres probably erotic Nomics :P < 1312488395 997989 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 34 or whatever < 1312488401 938253 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's erotic everything < 1312488413 25002 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BDSM community would really take to it < 1312488414 858599 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's probably an erotic esoteric programming language out there < 1312488439 537313 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoterotic? < 1312488507 335062 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Tooth or Bear: Each turn, either take out your own tooth, or wrestle a bear. < 1312488508 699112 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :561) Tooth or Bear: Each turn, either take out your own tooth, or wrestle a bear. < 1312488542 481177 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well real life is very complicated. something like Nomic is best to stay in its own dimension < 1312488544 935359 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1312488552 495200 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: i am so boring to discuss such things <-- beware of self fulfilling thought patterns < 1312488563 366581 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say that in the most hypocritical way possible < 1312488663 184758 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way I am trying to view life lately is that everything is going to go wrong around me... and that I just have to make something of my time and energy in the space i've got left for myself < 1312488676 660793 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1312488717 57411 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: there have been programming language "nomics", btw. but there the players had to actually make the code to make the game do what they wanted. it solves the understanding problem, since the players cannot code that requirement :P < 1312488757 65413 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess the computer wasn't really a player there < 1312488773 698650 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are those who will try to say "it's not so bad".. but you know.. the world really is that bad... it really is.. but so what? who is really listening when you complain about the state of things? < 1312488787 135779 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1312488789 225941 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im listening < 1312488794 44181 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i stop < 1312488797 453456 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. you have to take responsibility for what you can do < 1312488812 594134 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because.. noone is ever going to make everything ok < 1312488835 623725 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not like you shouldn't take responsibility anyway. < 1312488839 911601 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I need to get involved in this conversation at some point < 1312488875 931248 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to back away from the conversation because i tend to hog chats < 1312488900 440261 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything will not go wrong < 1312488908 157710 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything will not go right either < 1312488938 274585 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everything will go < 1312489025 413226 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I have to stop and ask myself, "why do they do this to me?", at that point I realize that I have the power to change my situation in small ways, and it is my choice whether I exercize that or not. < 1312489064 160666 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does who do what < 1312489101 355037 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do this < 1312489210 259889 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :salespeople, loansharks, ponzi schemers... < 1312489215 489297 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: are you familiar with Them? < 1312489215 693550 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what the hell is that??? you are quite a sn0b < 1312489222 581965 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1312489236 209166 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312489236 451062 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312489272 291521 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :spyware, software installers with browser toolbars which can only be turned off by clicking a subtle checkbox, < 1312489289 220834 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style lovecraft < 1312489289 424268 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) < 1312489296 648961 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi? < 1312489297 206763 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: it was a rough parallel in all essential features of the dead < 1312489299 14614 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :facebook wreaking havoc with your privacy, lulzsec revealing your details < 1312489304 503776 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :nya < 1312489310 248916 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nethack < 1312489310 451271 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal) < 1312489313 399111 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hihihihi < 1312489313 742047 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: master of thieves: there was a handsome young man lifted the sword and thrust with both arms; the blade broke the surface, the prince himself is about the newspaper stories which recounted the alleged existence of creatures in the depths of the shopkeep logic ( hence our former mailing list address). < 1312489353 216360 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :makeup product testing on animals < 1312489373 642727 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: is there a word for people like you < 1312489392 740407 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1312489392 942660 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1312489393 970196 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENDLESS junkmail in my email inbox < 1312489397 924149 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Hi~ < 1312489398 324328 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: air france? typical american, you ll never see youtube with this jaybad... he is like the punching kola ad and the airbus < 1312489404 852519 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve. < 1312489407 419033 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :endless spam in blog comment sections < 1312489422 749311 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :endless automated signups leading to the creation of captchas < 1312489461 557614 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :endless car thefts leading to sensitive car alarms that are triggered by a strong wind < 1312489476 997660 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :identity thieves < 1312489489 110590 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pickpockets < 1312489502 749285 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: so these are them? < 1312489506 755231 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them < 1312489509 987309 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: and what did they do to you specifically < 1312489524 786704 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they force me into the corner to hide < 1312489541 105606 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are out there everyday stalking < 1312489548 315458 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you paranoid < 1312489550 145949 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am probably one of them < 1312489564 268827 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there has to be a better word for you < 1312489570 634125 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they ARE after me... they are after anyone they can get their clutches on < 1312489585 18991 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just probability that they don't get the opportunity < 1312489622 323502 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure i haven't managed to cast a wide enough net to define "them" though < 1312489749 108254 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, also, there is a trickle down effect... they do take their damage.. and it trickles down to everyone. everyone needing to pass the buck < 1312489763 167902 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1312489775 613554 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jou! < 1312489810 260760 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a finn. hide everyone! < 1312489837 762391 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like if there is an economic plane which is a manifold and heavy balls were dropped on it distorting it in places < 1312489894 754565 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. if a father is beaten up.. their family was dependant on him for economic security.. and the pressure on everyone builds up < 1312489905 527868 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if someone is on drugs.. and has to steal from their family < 1312489907 961557 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a similar effect < 1312489918 391166 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. I'm about as esoteric as what are you all non-finns.. < 1312489933 59541 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: all i know is that while not thinking about those kind of things doesn't necessarily make my day a good one, _all_ my good days are when i manage to avoid it. < 1312489951 231726 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: the question is, how glove are you? < 1312489997 987880 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: as much as what a herd of cats is. < 1312490029 41287 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch! I think that's too glove, but hopefully that's glove enough < 1312490083 333580 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: no finns here. _especially_ not fizzie or Deewiant. or tswett, even if he sounds like one at times. < 1312490121 720642 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kaive ottani ei olla espataa elmä soo. < 1312490146 699195 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah :) < 1312490148 300608 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like estonian. < 1312490164 519667 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if Estonians thought it sounded like Finnish. < 1312490227 171492 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: according to google, you failed to make two of those words untranslatable < 1312490262 681578 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "ei" and "olla" are definitely real words. Any others? < 1312490276 722470 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1312490310 356261 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :after applying the suggested corrections of the finnish text, google gives me "Ozone can not be a drain espataa life soo." < 1312490335 396280 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ooh! I see the matrix of solidity has made a comeback in the topic, good stuff) < 1312490386 67851 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: darn i was hoping i had escaped < 1312490427 721299 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason it's called the matrix of *solidity*, you know < 1312490459 410939 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i thought if i drank enough, i'd become fluid instead < 1312490461 854997 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :funniest thing I know about estonia is that there is a city called 'hawk' they have tried to cover from their map. < 1312490479 62735 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cover? < 1312490486 299343 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 'hawk' in estonian sounds much like 'dick' in finnish. < 1312490536 888514 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship town: Fucking, Austria < 1312490577 578404 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not actually true) < 1312490605 982149 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it happens to be, let's check < 1312490610 281266 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" are definitely real words. Any others? < 1312490610 488304 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:37 < oerjan> beats me < 1312490621 755500 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?q=viro+kulli&hl=en&ll=58.636935,26.334229&spn=4.868035,7.756348&sll=58.378679,26.312256&sspn=2.451155,3.878174&t=h&z=7 < 1312490645 656552 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ottani" is a plausible dialectical way of saying "otsani", i.e. "my forehead". < 1312490690 55199 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. < 1312490697 964900 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be multiple 'kulli' in estonia < 1312490702 592703 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "kaive" could I guess be some sort of a digging; from "kaivaa" 'to dig'; also "kaiverrus" 'engraving'. But I don't think it's quite a standard word. < 1312490766 272238 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "soo soo" is what you can say to a young child who has behaved badly. < 1312490784 429688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312490799 560800 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kaive" the gap between buttocks < 1312490838 104449 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the channel has gone downhill while I was away. < 1312490845 810067 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else you might dig into < 1312490859 180844 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: always downhill < 1312490870 764288 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder when it goes uphill.. < 1312490880 54858 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :always downhille < 1312490888 55194 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it goes uphill backwards in time < 1312490898 608321 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 2009, the European Union's OHIM trademarks agency forbade a German brewery to market a beer called "Fucking Hell". It appealed, and was granted permission in January 2010 to market the beer.[23] It claims the beer is named after the Austrian village Fucking and the German term for pale lager, Hell." < 1312490923 122782 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : I guess it does that when the variable underflows. < 1312490945 814994 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery, honestly, we use bigints for our hills. < 1312490956 606842 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary-precision suckage < 1312490987 281435 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's like worldwide economy then? < 1312490996 414567 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it's always downways instead of upwards.. < 1312491055 295019 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kaive ottani ei olla espataa elmä soo." <- if you wonder at this thing. it really means nothing in finnish even though someone might think it's estonian < 1312491060 452214 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let depth = exp(100) in ceiling depth < 1312491061 423063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 26881171418161356094253400435962903554686976 < 1312491069 709779 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er darn < 1312491072 131275 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking lambda! < 1312491088 763797 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let debt = exp(100) in ceiling debt -- i can't spel < 1312491089 670119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 26881171418161356094253400435962903554686976 < 1312491114 975479 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or then.. it could also be drunkspeak < 1312491135 488489 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :26881171418161356094253400435962903554686976 is pretty deep < 1312491143 756179 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: i wasn't particularly wondering. this _is_ tswett, after all. < 1312491154 81316 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty deeb too < 1312491163 414392 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah hard to dig oneself out of < 1312491174 645659 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kai se ottava ei ole espanja enmä osaa sanoa" < 1312491187 313881 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :digging upwards is my favourite sport and hobby < 1312491264 808510 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could try continue my language project.. < 1312491270 277859 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it's again night. :) < 1312491284 595753 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :night time is best time < 1312491290 438454 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've spent my daytime playing games, talking, driving a car and shopping. < 1312491309 429840 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery, what language project? < 1312491323 874884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Does it involve brainfuck in which case DIE) < 1312491379 165849 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves personally handwritten retargetable compiler backend. < 1312491385 10717 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to read that as make a brainfuck IDE < 1312491439 72242 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like to kill people by virtually stabbing them. you could try: http://www.kongregate.com/games/icecreambreakfst/racing-comrade < 1312491447 308997 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whicch would certainly be interesting < 1312491501 199410 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boring < 1312491561 74320 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hey i have a project involving brainfuck neener neener < 1312491622 889512 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no one found a way to calculate n%2 in 3 cells while preserving n :( < 1312491689 27025 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _think_ i can manage to end the main loop on a finite, fixed set of values, but that's sort of unsatisfying < 1312491689 358420 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :basicly, if I'd get off from the unproductivity cycle, I'd get on to writing stuff that converts bunch of expressions in a program flow graph into thin amount of assembly language in x86 and nvidia gtx460 < 1312491721 70217 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's enough to do decision problems < 1312491741 910858 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'd continue from that by implementing a language, so I can implement graphical IDE in the language so I can skip parsing entirely. < 1312491763 950831 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'd rewrite the whole compiler in the language I just created. < 1312491773 466055 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1312491826 94162 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: you mean making a language without a text syntax? < 1312491861 175223 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1312491911 211876 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played with the editing concepts but distracted into other things entirely, and then I distracted into doing compiler stuff, which is indeed very useful for all of my earlier projects. < 1312492027 661766 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at BRB and notes that for most esolangs, the _more_ commands they have the _less_ interesting they are < 1312492081 459257 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like correct < 1312492086 896319 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :more commands means more crap anyway < 1312492089 608075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1312492110 617308 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge being an exception < 1312492118 28041 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got some sort of semi esoteric semi production -thingy as goal. < 1312492137 957854 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure whether it's even esoteric after all then.. < 1312492148 194476 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Just a special instance of the general scenario in software: the more stuff your software has, the worse it is. < 1312492215 74892 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true too < 1312492245 458570 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that in some cases the complexity can be handled and it's actually awesome. < 1312492258 50294 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: haskell? < 1312492281 421653 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok haskell has some creaky parts too) < 1312492287 491644 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's necessary and unnecessary complexity. < 1312492299 682802 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most complexity is unnecessary. < 1312492391 533308 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: I think if it is developed without anyone investing any money then it is esoteric < 1312492391 735695 :lin0mak!~chatzilla@59.164.0.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312492418 126512 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be going too far though,,, < 1312492432 927749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20, it's going so far that light takes ten minutes to reach it. < 1312492455 961720 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the assumption there is that all these 1000s of people who learn to make compilers don't actually ever invent their own languages < 1312492457 75771 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's further than the sun! < 1312492484 534772 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the sun's pretty far away < 1312492485 870989 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if they do they're kept private < 1312492488 263744 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, 25% further! < 1312492498 806595 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: well there are all kinds of money, do academic grants count? < 1312492500 108652 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :125% as far! < 1312492533 48593 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think an esoteric language is defined as being designed to be unusable < 1312492540 642817 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it may be just a matter of many people don't having _time_ to make anything big without being paid. < 1312492542 909021 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: I don't know whether 'doing your own language' auto-ensures esoteric.. or wait < 1312492564 684897 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yeah.. no < 1312492566 249453 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ill cluster bomb my definition < 1312492567 312696 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's a bit far in the other direction again < 1312492587 383143 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux was a doing your own operating system < 1312492606 106970 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about themed? < 1312492606 308989 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: An esoteric language is defined as being strange. < 1312492608 402850 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, just get oko to go on about how he gets paid to study esolangs. < 1312492625 95817 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) no funding 2) not done as part of schoolwork/academic work 3) no committee 4) non-commercial < 1312492630 861003 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well he would have to be HERE for that. < 1312492657 946226 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so.. esolangs can be studied >.< < 1312492668 85127 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think i am the one to define it then.. < 1312492681 925143 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am mixing esolang with indielang < 1312492689 737010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nah, he could bang on about it from inside a sealed metal box. < 1312492730 762815 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one case: is P'' an esolang? böhm was probably paid in some way. < 1312492753 653586 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :P'' was a thingy to prove something < 1312492769 674507 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That goto-less imperative languages can be turing complete < 1312492778 153540 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't intended as "eso", but many of those initial TC formalisms are indistinguishable from what we consider quality in an esolang < 1312492799 635932 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than mordern esolangs < 1312492800 293232 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine programming in Code 110 < 1312492801 526817 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1312492844 898040 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1312492852 781822 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/code/rule/ < 1312492854 404812 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1312492923 370219 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did i misspell modern < 1312492929 890388 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, imagine programming in a tag system < 1312492941 560740 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it was freudian? < 1312492961 683112 :lin0mak!~chatzilla@59.164.0.45 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330] < 1312492963 20337 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you aspire to be like Sauron or something < 1312492994 264891 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly know what that is < 1312492996 20159 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] 3) no committee [...] <-- objection. magenta was made by committee. also the 1.Adjudicated Blind Collaborative Design Esolang Factory, although it failed. < 1312493011 455975 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcdef < 1312493024 501097 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :one does not simply goto mordor; < 1312493033 764055 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... in which oerjan bickers about automatic copying of item numbers < 1312493044 758186 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats monqy -----### < 1312493049 627839 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :took long enough < 1312493054 648500 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was waiting for that < 1312493061 699117 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was qwop < 1312493062 835023 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WAS PONDERING WHETHER TO SWAT OR BAN < 1312493069 360594 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwop to mordor < 1312493085 984296 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I'd do that quite easily I guess.. < 1312493116 980100 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/1359404/One+does+not+simply+QWOP+into+Mordor/ < 1312493125 467374 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the veloceraptors will get you < 1312493134 937823 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP specs say so < 1312493201 175598 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any implemented esoteric operating systems? < 1312493238 730241 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by what standard of esoteric/operating system < 1312493245 685951 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also implemented < 1312493296 763944 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An OS that could concievably have an article on the wiki is considered esoteric for this purpose < 1312493304 622842 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all you need to do is an operating system.. then you're quite easily esoteric < 1312493326 692499 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implemented in that I could get it on a computer and boot it < 1312493350 328890 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1312493387 698889 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is an operating system < 1312493397 389216 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fair enough my definition failed < 1312493426 732194 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to happen a lot < 1312493521 864589 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :making something sufficiently esoteric runs the risk of failing to make it an operating system < 1312493631 712821 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about making operating systems < 1312493637 944349 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312493639 65396 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I did, I would probably do this < 1312493675 672286 :variable!~thing@unaffiliated/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1312493696 149926 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: esolangs are similar to nomic in that whatever restrictions you try to make, _someone_ is going to try something not fitting in it :P < 1312493728 325645 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312493731 503700 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-194.tn.glocalnet.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312493894 243367 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammiit, I'm 9 years and 41 weeks of experience off becoming a "Cloud Evangelist" for Canonical < 1312493919 958010 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that even mean. < 1312493979 191079 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the guy who says "This is cool! C'mon, folks!" < 1312493991 539955 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not getting it < 1312494007 469972 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :About Cloud computing < 1312494017 43131 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically with Ubuntu < 1312494055 990291 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get all the fuss over it < 1312494062 659551 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither do I < 1312494062 988403 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only some of the fuss < 1312494066 428613 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like those 20 years experience with java requirements? < 1312494076 348793 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1312494090 791025 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 years is a lot of java experience < 1312494110 370254 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess java does not fit very well as an example any longer < 1312494113 948586 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In twenty years time, I'd be 36 < 1312494142 48271 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 60 years time, I might be coming up to retirement < 1312494169 592223 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you won't find anyone doing *programming* who has that long experience of mainstream languages < 1312494183 33831 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheery: *whoosh* < 1312494710 518793 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't simply imagine a person with internal drive towards programming would stay away from other languages and wouldn't become able of using many other languages he'd much more prefer than java. < 1312494865 463400 :Cheery!~cheery@a88-113-50-171.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1312495336 172146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there have been cases of people rejecting one of the early Java testers (from before it was publicly released) for not having enough Java experience < 1312496038 616356 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's an eclipse plugin for Befunge developement? < 1312496118 169175 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1312496128 757262 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: He's a big quitter he is < 1312496144 174213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I just found out that Torvalds went xfce due to hating gnome 3. Calling it a step down compared to gnome 2 but a huge step up compared to gnome 3 < 1312496153 566525 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree completely < 1312496181 335865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, why, is it so impossible to use Gnome 2? < 1312496200 540181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, downgrading major things like gtk+ and glib is always going to be a pita < 1312496213 826994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, further, who is going to maintain gnome 2? < 1312497477 942612 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1312499027 982857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312499091 861304 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't they say next Ubuntu (11.10) is dropping classic Gnome desktop completely, in favour of Unity (with a 2D-Unity for machines with less 3D hardware horsepower)? < 1312500006 594023 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1312500010 204630 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host < 1312500010 406534 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312500095 740779 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, something like that. i want to see it. it'll be great, i think. < 1312500293 300264 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312500360 455617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Um, they already did. < 1312500360 658011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1312500367 291317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1312500384 521918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus making Ubuntu completely unusable without manual installation. < 1312500591 467969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1312500598 250195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Unity *that* bad? < 1312500601 302411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1312500603 168099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really is. < 1312500618 126661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I gave an honest, complete effort to love and use it when the last Ubuntu came out. < 1312500626 584336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked past all its implementation flaws. < 1312500632 36242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really is horrendous at the core. < 1312500655 247416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrendous != unusable. < 1312500703 110482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone's struggled through one or two horrendous interfaces because they needed to. < 1312500787 936326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: When that interface is your /entire desktop/... < 1312500810 475229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 95's desktop is, all sincerity, more usable than Unity. < 1312500843 668155 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would a precis of why it's awful be too much to ask for@? < 1312501022 977400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, because I've summarised on here before; no, I don't remember log dates. < 1312501027 148480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe later. < 1312501526 365367 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1312502088 939356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:54:51: ^style something-else-except-that-agora-nonsense < 1312502089 946080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIEEEEE < 1312502122 972014 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, show elliott your new style. < 1312502123 210766 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he was a glitch in the accident was the kid pissed me off, was beautiful... geezzz... didn't see half of these < 1312502129 257575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312502129 459569 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube* < 1312502132 875501 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1312502134 139519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who. < 1312502137 628585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS A TRAVESTY < 1312502141 133286 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312502141 335812 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312502144 593383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, now do it. < 1312502144 795705 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: your sylladex will prevent it from being destroyed: 4/ 13, 1910, exactly, numskull. might as well just use that? i mean from your tree? with all your amaaaaaaaazing powers. < 1312502146 211882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What who did that. < 1312502220 726734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: that was like the most stereotypical line you could possibly blurt out in that style btw < 1312502220 928825 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it. < 1312502223 814098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yes. < 1312502224 16223 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: his birthday is in a few minutes. < 1312502226 35937 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it was just a glitch in the accident < 1312502226 580436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ah. < 1312502226 782517 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what, the last one. wait no, that just made you disappear" and stuff? < 1312502229 881787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yes. < 1312502230 83830 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you like to chat up one of those other clowns prototyped. go me t0 break it first before moving < 1312502240 128410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: this is terrible. < 1312502246 656910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone say fungot < 1312502249 457552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, come on, there's got to be a death threat or two in there somewhere. < 1312502249 659819 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and in time, though prone to do that < 1312502262 510607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:57:54: fungot, what is your opinion of brainfuck? < 1312502262 712795 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it possible for one of your b100d and a beating heart. you can be as good a time as any < 1312502262 712954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:57:54: itidus20: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alon < 1312502262 914656 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'. < 1312502263 116635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I can't wait! < 1312502263 319002 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just as i was initially believed they were new additions. for that. busy < 1312502264 505263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES IT RETURNS < 1312502279 104163 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we got a new one. < 1312502287 651023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'. < 1312502287 853598 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was a big goofy adult. seems like that's the only sort. if it were up to him we would try to be these mysterious characters but you suspect. what a royal mess of his lovely new horseleather bib. it just so happens that today, the 13th of april. another day of uneventful but highly satisfying < 1312502289 177203 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :562) elliott: an old colonel lost, but a new brother gained. together they will ascend, each time you must be adventurin'. < 1312502299 208523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like lyrics < 1312502301 776907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really bad lyrics < 1312502302 487094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hey, you gave that death threat to elliott! < 1312502302 689672 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? < 1312502305 432013 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1312502312 844565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, but you were meant to hate ME < 1312502313 46280 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you really wish your side. < 1312502318 573645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I DO < 1312502318 859907 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you pick the time that happens, right. some numbers are already supplied are being cross-referenced with understandings i already was. < 1312502323 130123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? < 1312502323 333710 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your name is john. is that correct? ok, whatever it does. perhaps you will take this from the top. ve l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v l. v < 1312502324 464175 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :563) Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? < 1312502331 929956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :v l. v l. v l. < 1312502332 213569 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1312502344 613489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, the time I pick is NOW! < 1312502344 815780 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but it is your journey i am just as confused. you will have your questions answered, but they kind with this mutant candy-red blood. an outcast. he thinks it's about to be. someone needs to grab the beta ( 6) in the room. he briefly speaks to its strife! quota for the day. she simply returns to the land of thought and focus on the matter < 1312502365 486796 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Land of Thought and Focuss. < 1312502368 263113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Focus < 1312502385 917282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you so confused as to threaten to kill me? < 1312502386 119260 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: though the fact that this is apparently a bull penis, and a beating heart. you can be as good a time as any to start a new memo < 1312502425 735498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bull penis _and_ a beating heart. < 1312502485 862985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you going to threaten to kill me with the bull penis? < 1312502486 65207 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: though the fact that this is apparently a bull penis, and a variety of interests. you have a passion for really terrible movies. he would just go on and on about it. < 1312502501 509592 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, it's a variety of interests too? < 1312502501 711714 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is it there she is. < 1312502544 306923 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312503482 885728 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you still in youtube mode? < 1312503483 137680 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: the stuff scattered about your room. you of course it was a nasty pair of beagle puss glasses, several () a blank card, producing a different hole in the roof < 1312503487 967163 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1312503488 169236 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1312503489 885466 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, are you still in youtube mode? < 1312503490 169558 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: got footage of the a-320 that had been certified by the computer overrode the automatic throttle system but it keeps skippin for me, you managed to contradict yourself there big time, this movie will be epic < 1312503491 804023 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312503495 243318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee, IT WAS YOU < 1312503516 525809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503516 766879 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503523 658 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, NEVER LEAVE THIS MODE < 1312503523 202681 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this is it, like an apple or a cunning prankster than a common sort of < 1312503532 167442 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312503532 369797 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312503537 531387 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1312503537 733709 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1312503539 229188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503539 431627 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503542 171267 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1312503542 373069 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1312503544 172400 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:c < 1312503544 712230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503544 914615 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503557 286454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312503557 488817 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312503559 762943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503559 964152 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503565 157874 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats homestuck < 1312503570 982400 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312503571 184506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hams on steaks < 1312503571 386858 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i see def-bf as being used to do that < 1312503574 766528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, go to mspaintadventures.com < 1312503576 675398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312503576 877558 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312503577 289489 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1312503578 523568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He knows. < 1312503579 780410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503579 982860 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503586 173191 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -_- < 1312503586 880966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, stop talking, I need to war with Lymee. < 1312503590 36546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503590 239061 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503590 604634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503590 806893 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503591 9060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503591 211242 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503591 413429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503591 413657 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503591 615194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503591 817342 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503593 683388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: there. < 1312503593 885512 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you in the medium. < 1312503599 344851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312503599 547331 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312503603 37424 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee, CONTINUE AND I SHALL MURDER YOUR DWARF SOMEHOW < 1312503606 185767 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-; < 1312503610 375833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312503610 578865 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312503626 244387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312503626 446858 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312503667 21576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312503667 223644 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7* fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312503670 647504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503670 849852 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503690 541349 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1312503690 743534 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1312503698 595132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuc < 1312503698 797197 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1312503699 677244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503699 879498 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503700 988074 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1312503701 190498 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1312503703 741731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503703 943703 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503704 743149 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1312503704 945355 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1312503707 208673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You should totally just remove ^style. < 1312503708 274817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503708 486719 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503710 533736 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1312503710 736099 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1312503712 941436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503713 143888 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503715 595460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: asie. < 1312503723 367311 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312503724 622143 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is dumb and makes me sad < 1312503733 627739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its my sworn duty to fight all asies < 1312503737 698443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :swron,,, < 1312503744 557420 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Hi. Are you Homestuck? :D < 1312503744 759667 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: listen guys it was a test < 1312503752 531774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style homestuck < 1312503752 733848 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673) < 1312503754 246426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hams < 1312503754 447997 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as it turned out, fooling around and transportalize as far as the details of the game mythology by now. try to be careful, ok? this book is full of more meow." she mistook this for more nonsense, but it is of course. < 1312503793 66876 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: do not homestuck style ever again. OK? < 1312503794 474315 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee:/ more enduring social instincts conquer other less persistent instincts--the social virtues alone regarded by savages--the self-regarding virtues acquired at a later period over/ lighter and upper lavas :)/ uspallata range; origin subsequent to that :)/ perfect flowers 4.27 inches in height; or as 100 to 75. < 1312503852 809248 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312503853 11213 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312503863 921872 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style jargon < 1312503864 123810 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive) < 1312503864 876452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312503865 78945 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cisco systems pays dec for stolen software developers, system v release 4 and osf/ 3 globbing, which bloomed into a daze where they kept the cadr carcasses they now have a link to a < 1312503872 579631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sup < 1312503872 781708 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like a very clear mirror < 1312503878 660721 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ninja success < 1312503890 184426 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1312503890 386347 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1312503895 640755 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hihi < 1312503895 926230 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: that is a winner's attitude, and there is no particularly good human translation for this concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear concept. a concept usually denoted by a single, linear conc < 1312503900 825144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sup < 1312503901 28729 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: about his hat dirty. either way, spoils are yours toward a common goal, and because you can't understand < 1312503902 657808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you try < 1312503905 722404 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ct < 1312503905 924806 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) < 1312503914 938742 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^stylewp < 1312503916 359126 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style wp < 1312503916 561544 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages) < 1312503920 867352 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ss < 1312503921 107158 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings) < 1312503925 128287 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312503925 330680 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: as a veteran of the game. it's what happens when you start running, she'll have to pry the cigarette holder to support. < 1312503929 196321 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312503929 398307 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: your blood is, he's a total badass, and that his awesomeness was also sort of a thing i do. she is the best character, you know. forever! < 1312503941 26533 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312503941 228677 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: enter name. < 1312503942 878445 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312503943 164603 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: that happens, right. maybe it would be best not to be near it when this happens every little gag and expected to arrive today that i was about to get blown up! this does not seem to exist in a state of almost perpetual stalemate, and expands to a larger board and more exotic collection of what he refers to as a thermal hull, instead of some kind of clock pun. no. cold. really cold shit flushed from derse. dave's package < 1312503948 400012 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:c < 1312503953 290909 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jerk. < 1312503956 796348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like hamsteak to me < 1312503958 867454 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not sound like shakespeare that osunds like hommestucke < 1312503973 966617 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312504010 844842 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1312504011 46813 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck* ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1312504041 259500 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312504047 200660 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312504050 965328 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312504060 741755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312504060 944060 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the point is its important! everyone )(as just been so busy abjuring, you don't actually give a shit. if it were up to him we would try to be these mysterious characters but you suspect. what a royal mess of his lovely new horseleather bib. it is a good idea. < 1312504062 692936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt like us now < 1312504074 655572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ignores you after a while < 1312504151 589970 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1312504152 437191 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: keep. i will walke my selfe to thy direction, toward london then, for we haue put thee in comfort, not by two that i know our greatest friends attend vs < 1312504468 469661 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, if elliott messed with your brain, I swear... < 1312504468 711531 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: in that reality. she flew in his window, seized the game with a dead heir and witch < 1312504471 637509 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1312504479 553521 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knife glint < 1312504912 766795 :atome!~quassel@78.250.211.70 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312506064 281732 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ss < 1312506064 483754 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings) < 1312506069 521737 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: kill elliott please < 1312506070 668424 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: hub. vpon my sword, and turne her out, and therefore more valiant, being as good a man as york! vernon. hark ye: not so much as conjure fort, and make a darke night too of halfe the day: which better then the male. it is < 1312507180 854112 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179112227.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312507944 412904 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179113237.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1312508777 612715 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312508855 59293 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:UToneyNicholsonm this userpage makes me happy < 1312509566 400211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1312509819 973622 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is clearly the best < 1312509866 604146 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly has an idea for a weird captcha < 1312509881 391767 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What is the URL of this page?" < 1312509911 935531 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sole purpose would be to reveal the location of captcha farms < 1312509914 416592 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1312509932 888898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312509955 701238 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it might also work slightly as an ordinary captcha < 1312510034 798146 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION did not edit that userpage with a stupid meme < 1312510115 905043 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to admit that it is an improvement < 1312510574 989818 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For it to work, you'd need to find a way to prevent it form being recognised automatically. < 1312510609 267172 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :always a problem < 1312510609 937618 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a bot would be able to know what url it's looking at. < 1312510659 629950 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe have a number of different types of tasks, and instead of obfuscating the answer, do so with the question. < 1312510668 561090 :Sulmersal!~Sulmersal@70.94.60.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312510731 112393 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :'what is the URL of this page'? < 1312510735 411027 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that reveal captcha farms? < 1312510780 380658 :Sulmersal!~Sulmersal@70.94.60.54 QUIT :Client Quit < 1312510867 266239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Mechanical Turk type captcha farms. < 1312510904 433558 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see, captchas being solved on another side < 1312510912 201863 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :But would the captcha being executed know what url it's on? < 1312511021 791694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah how does this work < 1312511254 832691 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be hard. < 1312511291 264075 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was imagining the sort of thing where your captcha is used for a captcha on another page, which the spammers control... something i read about somewhere < 1312511300 854492 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though really, it's not like it needs to know. If someone gives the wrong url from seeing it on a farmign site, then it's the wrong one. < 1312511317 308125 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, then it's not like you need ot let them go through anyway. < 1312511330 615367 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What oerjan jsut said. < 1312511377 99118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would most likely be an iframe, though < 1312511384 518233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case the URL that the captcha saw would be itself < 1312511400 547323 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1312511410 589025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could detect whether it was in frames, but < 1312511518 926719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i.e. Mechanical Turk. < 1312511521 994148 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm shouldn't captchas do that kind of detection anyway < 1312511531 223520 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: i think it would help if they found a way to integrate the name of a website into the background of a captcha < 1312511559 293837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suspect they simply screenshot it or similar < 1312511560 572636 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem then would be that the varmints would try to unintegrate the background < 1312511581 820917 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it's screenshot, then the scheme should work... < 1312511589 983405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hm true < 1312511609 430459 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, supposedly they do captcha redirections too < 1312511612 884339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this sucks (maybe) < 1312511627 596462 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like having a site which borrows someone elses capcthas < 1312511638 449204 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get naive people to fill them in < 1312511649 400411 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: that's what i'm talking about < 1312511652 728259 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they just type what's in the image, though, it doesn't give away the location. < 1312511656 436555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no fuck < 1312511658 762503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im in utrecht land < 1312511672 171774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: the image asks them to input the url they are on < 1312511673 21210 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if they were to put the URL into the captcha image itself it would help < 1312511673 446633 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened < 1312511674 66206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1312511682 408056 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a watermark < 1312511687 708485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: utrecht < 1312511692 711522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: help im utrecht < 1312511693 139507 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they would then of course try to remove < 1312511698 223818 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: um you are having the opposite idea of what this is intended to do < 1312511698 651324 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I remember is utrecht is scary < 1312511722 708845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: knowing they're helping spammers won't stop people helping < 1312511734 414472 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: this is supposed to trick the people filling in the captchas to reveal what website they are filling it in on < 1312511734 915087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not starving > not helping spammers < 1312511740 80811 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I think it would actually stop a few folk. < 1312511746 303342 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not enough. < 1312511754 117029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: I gather they mainly use farms of Chinese people and the like < 1312511762 488904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I doubt it < 1312511771 531749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta love slavery < 1312511775 400594 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though that wouldn't exactly be like Mechanical Turk. < 1312511783 350850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1312511884 792725 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, it seems like it would be easier to help decrease poverty in china that to stop an army of determined slaves. < 1312511909 481342 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :its also prisoners < 1312511928 289886 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i heard that they make prisoners play world of warcraft for example < 1312511950 997958 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think that would be a bit risky. < 1312511958 614924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Welcome to prison... here's your MMO account." < 1312511966 177076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" < 1312511971 633951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ANYTHING BUT WORLD OF WARCRAFT!!!!!!" < 1312511972 629646 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to they prevent the prisoners from leaking out information? < 1312511981 304774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm a great Starcraft player -- I swear!" < 1312511983 552094 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if these are really mostly chinese farms, then i get another idea: make captchas that require people to know something the chinese government is censoring :P < 1312511991 378452 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not allowed to "play" as such.. they have to tediously earn money < 1312512001 301221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1312512005 929593 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, so no chat ability I guess. < 1312512010 60890 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or which reveals such information < 1312512011 764882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "What is the Tienanmen square massacre?" < 1312512013 208384 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1312512014 62140 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively: get --yes < 1312512016 831558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/What is/When did the - happen/ < 1312512025 762426 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: precisely :P < 1312512042 254532 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan :o < 1312512044 959790 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1312512055 330124 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're genious < 1312512088 609797 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :now... how to convince them to do that < 1312512137 795380 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think blizzard would like that < 1312512170 30362 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think WoW uses captchas anyway. < 1312512171 167415 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why did someone edit idiocy into a spam userpage < 1312512196 743781 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude, but still... the game of WoW could be edited to send such messages < 1312512197 170157 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 68.95.248.65 2 years of age < 1312512199 82937 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: see above < 1312512204 919741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: lymia < 1312512208 340466 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312512212 631063 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far above < 1312512215 82220 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm bad at looking < 1312512236 208470 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: *:06 < 1312512242 480138 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1312512244 504564 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.... < 1312512250 134715 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hides < 1312512253 305280 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would've made a joke referencing Crab Nicholson. < 1312512275 567348 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could introduce new creature into WoW.. three watch crab and grass mud horse < 1312512333 800583 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would just cause a fury of immense proportions < 1312512402 807786 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: iirc that wouldn't be any different from a dirty pun in english < 1312512412 43453 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would upset the americans i assume < 1312512557 902997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so the gpipe guy........ < 1312512563 336687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: responded to my issues and is looking at my fork............... < 1312512569 805249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is supportive of making it windowing-system-generic............... < 1312512572 578715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replacing Vec............. < 1312512595 658432 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unforking in progress... < 1312512601 439908 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :........ < 1312512619 601826 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: replacing vec with what < 1312512626 767308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: something else.........maybe tuples.......... < 1312512638 222896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are...... the iksues............. < 1312512640 65729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/tobbebex/GPipe/issues/1 < 1312512640 268236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/tobbebex/GPipe/issues/2 < 1312512664 531192 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can tuples do linear algebra < 1312512702 676693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not :P < 1312512716 785014 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :effort in rewriting whatever vec did < 1312512747 357365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpipe doesn't use so much that rewriting the functions for tuples would be worse than keeping it < 1312512748 955935 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1,2) + (3,4) -- hm? < 1312512749 900624 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (4,6) < 1312512755 219234 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312512764 510589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok gpipe does a _bit_ more than that with them :D < 1312512764 939815 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok so rather something like WoWleaks < 1312512780 700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/Vec/0.9.8/doc/html/Data-Vec-LinAlg.html < 1312512812 522216 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding out what is being censored and leaking it in WoW < 1312512829 752493 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1312512876 288126 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: i really don't think WoW is a useful place for this. all it would achieve is to get it banned in china. < 1312512927 963966 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312512998 983614 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312513007 975741 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312513113 682412 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have this idea that the captcha would discriminate based on IP - it would use bad information about any country _except_ the one you are connecting from < 1312513194 382675 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you would only get your own country insulted if you are doing something like rerouting through a botnet in another country < 1312513239 590873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312513244 133569 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as spammers are likely to do) < 1312513319 983623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Warning: Ignoring unusable UNPACK pragma on the < 1312513320 186000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : second argument of `Cons' < 1312513321 65510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooooooo < 1312513337 544776 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1312513356 321121 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: UNPACK cannot be used on polymorphic types, can it? < 1312513362 660161 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vague recall here) < 1312513384 615287 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the unpacked size has to be known < 1312513392 849519 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why would you do that? < 1312513407 771062 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: do what? < 1312513424 462134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, I just want these compile-time vectors to end up as effectively tuples, really :P < 1312513429 394523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile-time-size that is < 1312513463 167216 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1312513495 653329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish GHC had pattern synonyms < 1312513553 608649 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few things about patterns make me sad but I forgot what they are oops < 1312513558 295390 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t tmap f (a, b, c) = (f a, f b, f c) < 1312513558 964623 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `=' < 1312513566 259169 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f (a, b, c) -> (f a, f b, f c) < 1312513566 842359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1. (t -> t1) -> (t, t, t) -> (t1, t1, t1) < 1312513701 477807 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well they aren't truly first class for one thing < 1312513718 656526 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess that's most of it < 1312513762 318017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's the maximum tuple length the report guarantees again? < 1312513780 862655 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 rings a bell, but don't count on it < 1312513785 817561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1312513901 7416 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course only 2 has more than a couple useful functions < 1312513949 224219 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that a pun aaaaaaa < 1312513955 720546 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312513958 51472 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1312513968 863391 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless by accident < 1312514019 956227 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of general support for n-touples makes me sad < 1312514105 511183 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does TH help much at all? < 1312514136 281022 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been so long since I used it, but I remember some general tuple constructy stuff < 1312514249 219808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im trying to figure out how to make constructing tuples non-ugly :( < 1312514253 961648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a :- b :- c :- Nil is ugly because of the :- Nil < 1312514263 342839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (a :- b :- c) is unsustainable, you have to use ugly type-family crap and it doesn't really work < 1312514272 434038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or typeclass shit i suppose < 1312514312 651304 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the :- Nill reminds me of the :.() or whatever it was in Vec < 1312514331 969623 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.: ???????? < 1312514432 851553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah it's pretty much the same < 1312514434 290871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and :. < 1312514435 950701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a constructor < 1312514445 118816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that Vec doesn't use gadts so it can be more flexible about waht the nil value is < 1312514448 730347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I could try a quasiquotation thing < 1312514475 530667 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i just had an idea for a programming game.. basically the interpreter is undocumented.. so you have to uncover the syntax of the language somehow < 1312514479 37522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[vec| a, b, c |] or something I guess < 1312514495 727531 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the commas necessary < 1312514507 771997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well I guess not < 1312514508 625048 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they might help make it cleaner < 1312514509 338142 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you could infer the syntax entirely through error messages < 1312514514 175481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[vec| (9+0) (9+9) |] is kind of ugly < 1312514518 844676 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312514519 46803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to [vec| 9+0, 9+9 |] < 1312514520 287798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm < 1312514524 429700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f [vec| a, b |] = ... < 1312514525 191139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ugly too < 1312514526 79282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe v < 1312514529 71831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f [v|a,b|] = ... < 1312514530 606554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1312514543 859109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1312514547 817116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess f [v|(a,b)|] = ... < 1312514549 521710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be ok < 1312514556 8858 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and back to nap < 1312514593 550682 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer [v|a,b|] over [v|(a,b)|] < 1312514602 30432 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parens seem a bit extraneous < 1312514603 833677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that means you can't shadow v < 1312514605 816672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312514613 265046 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1312514618 94763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312514622 497739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in [abc|...|] < 1312514624 455979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc is a varname < 1312514648 63244 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that stuff doesn't have its own namespace < 1312514649 407942 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1312514707 258631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1312514808 415851 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my favourite so far might be [vec| a, b |], in that case < 1312514880 923590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vecSizeIsNat :: ((Nat n) => r) -> Vec n a -> r < 1312514881 125879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vecSizeIsNat k V = k < 1312514881 126068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vecSizeIsNat k (_ :- xs) = vecSizeIsNat k xs < 1312514881 126175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mah proofs,,, < 1312515170 168168 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1312515176 922246 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :statically sized vectors, eh < 1312515181 719281 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you need < 1312515184 699036 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE PROOF WIZARD < 1312515188 412530 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :ProofWizard < 1312515192 274992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAAAAAAAAAAAY < 1312515199 635789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish GHC had proper existential quantification, can you make this happen????????????????? < 1312515204 555794 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1312515219 161459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am all kinds of down on having to choose between continuation-passing style and a typeclass for my fromList, ProofWizard < 1312515220 799416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kinds of down < 1312515233 537006 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just an existential wrapper < 1312515240 696571 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves you from explicit continuations, at least < 1312515254 883312 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, things aren't all fun and games with real existentials < 1312515279 145035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofWizard: Well, yeah. < 1312515284 897216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know they aren't, but I can dream. < 1312515344 596684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofWizard: I don't suppose proof wizards have an opinion on how to mitigate or avoid the ugly ":- V" in (a :- b :- c :- V) without resorting to an even uglier [vec| a, b, c |] < 1312515371 127750 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1312515412 113247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofWizard: You are the shittiest kind of wizard, man < 1312515416 961019 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312515440 115764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofWizard: I'm sorry :( < 1312515442 243641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it back < 1312515476 98735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofWizard: I don't suppose you know of any decent existing statically-sized vector packages on Hackage, though? I was incredibly surprised that I couldn't find a good one :-P < 1312515482 376179 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1312515489 483130 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm still not happy with the name of http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wirefunge < 1312515495 14648 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the decent ones I've written live in dark corners of my hard drive or on hpaste < 1312515527 720125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: Call it the wire-crossing problem < 1312515549 88394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofWizard: You should join my (one-man) Bitter About All the Old Hpastes Being Lost Brigade < 1312515567 420564 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im join too < 1312515576 789374 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time I couldn't find a hpaste I wanted to find < 1312515579 250027 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was lost < 1312515583 91696 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this upset me < 1312515680 462106 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312516121 46853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/49865 whats meant to be seemingly impossible about this.... < 1312516170 516092 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you call those, nondeterministic functions? < 1312516171 770898 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in haskell < 1312516200 164591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1312516209 340328 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw one that made power sets in learnyouahaskell < 1312516228 755723 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1312516368 648192 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> filterM (const [False, True]) "abcd" < 1312516369 473581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","d","c","cd","b","bd","bc","bcd","a","ad","ac","acd","ab","abd","abc","... < 1312516372 971198 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one? < 1312516376 478450 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one yes < 1312516377 326485 :ProofWizard!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1312516390 137504 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, "list monad" < 1312516434 285997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . List of ideas‎; 03:03 . . (+504) . . Saulrh (Talk | contribs) (→General Ideas - Structifuck and Protofuck: create a spec for object-oriented Brainfuck, then write google protocol buffers using for it.) < 1312516437 721892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill dead < 1312516465 396621 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :webscalefuck < 1312516470 850246 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloudfuck < 1312516535 908254 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone can provide their own implementation of '+' < 1312516551 123977 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object-oriented..... < 1312516552 403033 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1312516554 944554 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1312516822 520015 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insufficiently object. < 1312516854 849619 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I simply propose that everything is an object factory. < 1312516906 210142 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AdditionServerProxyRequestFactory < 1312516914 694066 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(am i doing it right?) < 1312516926 620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tc factories < 1312516942 436660 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Except that you obviously also have an AdditionServerProxyRequestFactoryFactory. < 1312516952 412717 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1312516960 722003 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1312516969 836806 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we need is something to dynamically create factory classes at runtime < 1312516974 119230 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we don't need to define them all \o/ < 1312516974 476822 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                        | < 1312516974 714816 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                        >\ < 1312517011 157379 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's called "partial application". < 1312517065 179359 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312517236 176369 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :JustAnotherVirtualmachineApplicationFactory < 1312517245 903488 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-35.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1312517246 213570 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-56-35.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1312517246 415650 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1312517498 841118 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1312517521 319000 :myndzi!~myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312517552 351913 :myndzi!~myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1312517559 171481 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-22-176-245.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312517776 741679 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1312517959 965879 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1312518490 7708 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312518523 958489 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did not "already do"; they made Unity the default, sure, but the old classic Gnome desktop is still an option in 11.04. < 1312518709 453092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1312518907 306700 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the "not an option in 11.10" seems to mean that it's not going to be on the CD; I suppose they'll still hae packages for it. < 1312519359 67131 :CakeProphet!~adam@h249.35.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312519359 494513 :CakeProphet!~adam@h249.35.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1312519359 696502 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1312519976 59150 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.4clojure.com/problem/26 < pfft, fail < 1312519978 784953 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheaty solution is shortest. < 1312520557 724713 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1312520789 36814 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1312521257 710575 :itidus21!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1312521467 53778 :itidus20!~itidus20@c210-49-78-148.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1312522938 298968 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1312523033 644497 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1312524064 222119 :angstrom!~Unknown@unaffiliated/angstrom QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312526261 845093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to use old versions of netscape and fvwm all day, is that so wrong < 1312526345 343576 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds pretty wrong, yes < 1312526350 700516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312526630 37904 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first window manager (IIRC): fvwm95. (Pretty sad.) < 1312526692 66596 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't count the rather screwed-up "Workplace Shell" clone for Windows 3.1; http://toastytech.com/guis/wps.html < 1312526706 393805 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It was created because people might find it useful if they used OS/2 and also had to use Windows 3.1, or for people who just wanted to learn about the OS/2 Workplace Shell without having to install OS/2." < 1312526782 207957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fvwm95 is wonderful < 1312526785 853482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im so happy for you fizzie < 1312526880 613117 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fvwm95.sourceforge.net/screenshot-full.gif OH IT LOOKS SO FAMILIAR < 1312526894 652296 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dithered Netscape screen and all. < 1312527008 567010 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first non-DE WM was IceWM, I think. < 1312527033 967229 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still have a soft spot for IceWM, TBH. < 1312527067 251901 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I went with fvwm95 not because of some conscious choice, but because it was installed I-think-almost-by-default by the Slackware 7-point-something. < 1312527110 356342 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later on Enlightenment was an order of magnitude prettier, but ran too slow on my hardware to really be usable. I can't quite recall what I was using at that point instead. < 1312527140 522724 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Window Maker, I think. < 1312527144 847882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1312527153 133467 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that. < 1312528412 917860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1312529651 408519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, the Lion installer repartitions the disk < 1312529658 673346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could get messy < 1312529732 178707 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this < 1312529744 148795 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mac < 1312529764 509708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, im anticipating a horrific upgrade process < 1312529764 787618 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about their cat thing < 1312529767 362201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312529768 899150 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312529784 172427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the meantime I'm entertaining myself by reading the Ars Technica review: "If you can imagine three dials labeled "color," "contrast," and "contour," Apple has been turning them down slowly for years. Lion accelerates that process." < 1312529796 775466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more color, contrast and contour, only twenty-nine dollars < 1312529800 35678 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312529801 329345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jobs hath spoken < 1312529848 839304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The new look is not a radical departure—everything hasn't gone jet black and grown fur, for example" this review is just gonna be a list of the ways in which apple are going to let me down with this upgrade < 1312529870 503260 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which upgrade? < 1312529870 702059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1312529882 524116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Jobs OS Lion < 1312529911 178749 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like it. Then again, I've been playing with it since Dev < 1312529911 477916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on the less pleasant OS partition of my computer < 1312529917 762850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the one that isn't Linux) < 1312529943 757067 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover I'm so proud of my meta-dwarf < 1312529943 955980 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1312529968 328622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finally, there's Apple's budding love affair with a particular linen texture." < 1312529976 648534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me more < 1312530021 109035 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the linen texture? < 1312530033 352705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Though I can assure you that Lion comes with more than eight applications, you wouldn't know it from looking at this screenshot." but it has chess and a dictionary, why would i need anything else.................. < 1312530037 387450 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just this gray thing on the login screen < 1312530044 457095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why cna't there be only eight applications............... < 1312530048 400100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: im not talking to you :P < 1312530057 872772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm having an imagined dialogue with sirawhatever < 1312530063 826870 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312530083 109498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apple isn't (yet) asking us to start poking our fingers at our Mac's screen" more disappointments < 1312530090 445480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attacks his screen a few times in protest < 1312530123 786457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lion further cements the dominance of touch by making all touch-based scrolling work like it does on a touchscreen." < 1312530134 682760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just rebooted into my other OS, time to learn how to scroll again" < 1312530149 304137 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can shut that off < 1312530155 284874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I learned next paragraph < 1312530160 590431 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1312530182 268726 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not particularly tied to my scrolling direction. I go both ways, as the kids say < 1312530262 431979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how you pirate the retail Lion, a .dmg with the installer .app in it? < 1312530269 893145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not that I would ever commit such an abhorrent crime, of course.) < 1312530387 66461 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have a pirated copy < 1312530391 657992 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also bought it < 1312530406 858803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shock! < 1312530412 645556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be hung. < 1312530415 732937 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST LIKE FUCKING MINECRAFT < 1312530448 311175 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also decided I'm going to write a MIPS interpreter in Haskell < 1312530482 778874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Interpreter" :-D < 1312530490 15478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, formal semantics for MIPS < 1312530535 852715 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/interpreter/simulator/ < 1312530539 32815 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a touch drunk < 1312530566 564572 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like spim, but in Haskell < 1312530577 94272 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to come up with a pun suitable for hackage < 1312530579 773818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have a go at it, too < 1312530583 709404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like "fun" < 1312530605 411267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Are you going to emulate a system, or just have the simulator provide its own syscalls a la JSMIPS? < 1312530607 355159 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build an i386 CPU in Minecraft. < 1312530612 364288 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna call mine "Elliottcraft" < 1312530657 242366 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not sure, yet, but knowing me it could easily be the former < 1312530664 463105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Gross :) < 1312530696 775656 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one ever had fun staying clean < 1312530706 765162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one hideous window-opening animation < 1312530804 898321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/RytKT.png <-- also something has gone terribly wrong with the player controls < 1312530818 49749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity:0NaN:0NaN is a good film length < 1312530829 380731 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caption hilarity < 1312530870 320845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god this review really is nineteen pages isn't it < 1312530895 792237 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Ars Technica? < 1312530906 778518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1312530910 651330 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knew it < 1312530935 935268 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :link me please < 1312530949 973964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars < 1312530957 86789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im reading it more out of principle than anything < 1312531042 99374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/ical-big.png suddenly i am puking < 1312531048 56799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did this happen < 1312531069 706397 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that... wood grain? < 1312531070 97412 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, right? < 1312531075 792342 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at Address Book < 1312531078 203321 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1312531085 928230 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... leather? or something < 1312531086 202616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: leather < 1312531088 664276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking leather < 1312531092 445866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a fucking leather diary thing < 1312531093 654650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ < 1312531097 695525 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first OS that vegans can't use < 1312531105 238674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple what are you DOING < 1312531110 260962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought brushed metal was bad < 1312531125 878587 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly < 1312531135 963853 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope there's a skinning system on the way < 1312531139 292726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the first few versions where the pinstripes were like < 1312531142 464828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really dark < 1312531144 395076 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I just have to go an change the damn textures myself < 1312531149 849858 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and < 1312531151 662960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you couldn't read any window title or toolbar icon or anything < 1312531159 37737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: remember UNO? < 1312531179 80725 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? < 1312531189 596712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gui.interacto.net/ < 1312531193 793470 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah < 1312531202 293561 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I've remembered it < 1312531213 340713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how there was an application designed solely to stop the system having like ten wildly different themes < 1312531250 977382 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312531278 55173 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple needs to stop hiring hipsters, or marketing to hipsters, or whatever caused this < 1312531292 689108 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop raping puppies < 1312531293 444469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how leopard was like, fuck this, we're using exactly one theme from now on < 1312531297 767649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the itunes team went < 1312531303 321572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"... hi we have a new theme :D :D :D :D :D :D" < 1312531316 675729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody shot them for some reason??? < 1312531320 387905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate this os < 1312531330 928383 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you use it then < 1312531334 883581 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least iTunes is finally 64-bit. < 1312531343 209392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: i don't < 1312531344 445331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use linux < 1312531354 779032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i boot into os x only when i need to use something that doesn't run on linux, or when i need to upgrade it < 1312531374 716642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: woo, now _there's_ a change that will have no conceivable effect on me whatsoever < 1312531378 380663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait, so they ported it to Cocoa? < 1312531384 690689 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1312531396 443614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it still have the fucking window management buttons vertically < 1312531400 504040 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still pretty horrendous < 1312531410 507626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it does < 1312531416 2222 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, the buttons are back to a sensible horizontal < 1312531416 688639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll still avoid opening it for my sanity < 1312531420 59873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1312531425 765811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it... < 1312531428 969542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm < 1312531429 820173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1312531431 241206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the catch < 1312531441 425075 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually unified fairly well, as they say < 1312531447 569963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/address-book.png < 1312531447 772086 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just also boring < 1312531449 61965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1312531450 927276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im actually laughing < 1312531459 115466 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't I tell you? < 1312531467 795043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but < 1312531470 352306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt know it would be that bad < 1312531478 109506 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1312531489 199352 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, many iPad owners don't know what a book is < 1312531496 72378 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will they know how to parse this design? < 1312531512 9712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking that address book screenshot opens this: http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/dangerous.html < 1312531541 380222 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1312531553 382333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The three-pane view (groups → people → detail) is gone, presumably because a book can't show three pages at once." < 1312531571 28915 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Triptych < 1312531601 837611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1312531605 256506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best address book format < 1312531627 263416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on iCal, in March: "That pic has got to be fake, it's waaaaaay to different to the shots/video of DP1." < 1312531659 167038 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312531664 422423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"causes the current desktop picture to recede slightly into the center of the screen, revealing behind it our old friend the linen pattern." < 1312531666 941466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you, linen pattern < 1312531782 395954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Holding down the option key makes all the icons sprout close widgets as they start to wiggle." < 1312531795 386063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh more linen. hi linen < 1312531953 268061 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1312531964 374425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh that RDP < 1312531978 912015 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312531990 643869 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that rdp < 1312532015 288505 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the main benefit to the iTunes 64 bit nonsense is that it stops me having a fit every time I look at System Monitor < 1312532029 358776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dmbarbour rdp reactive demand programming thing < 1312532036 996086 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1312532039 454477 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I forget everything else about it < 1312532058 887142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nihilist1andy: I have a fit when I look at System Monitor because when I do that it means I'm trying to kill something that's about to hang the system because my OS sucks < 1312532096 805145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/save-a-version.png < 1312532104 389102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY STOLE LEADEN'S CORE FEATURE < 1312532108 233775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASTARDS < 1312532115 319794 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use it to watch ghc blow up when I do odd things < 1312532121 256950 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312532126 97094 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312532145 361780 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1312532148 387953 :Nihilist2andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312532190 469141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nihilist1andy: im glad that the review is basically advocating orthogonal persistence for an entire chapter < 1312532196 15150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just throw it at people to convince them < 1312532233 352818 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad that Ars published a new version of War and Peace that's a little more Cupertino-flavored < 1312532245 85074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312532261 896666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nihilist1andy: this is shorter than the average length i think < 1312532267 331463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one was over twenty pages < 1312532273 419621 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But about a fucking OS update? < 1312532289 314797 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Whiny Wombat get this kind of treatment? < 1312532333 224096 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whiny Wombat? < 1312532338 148728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the OS may terminate applications that are not in use in order to reclaim resources—primarily memory, but also things like file descriptors, CPU cycles, and processes." yess keep arguing for things i've been arguing for for years < 1312532341 268825 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you one of them time travelling ubuntu users? < 1312532347 257073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO'S THE CRACKPOT NOW ASSHOLES........................... < 1312532391 516299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nihilist1andy: Ubuntu users get OMG! Ubuntu!... this is one of the few superior points of OS X < 1312532398 311116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently according to Canadian law, in case of a riot the sheriff or mayor is required to go there if they have received notice, and tell them that the queen has authorized them to be imprisoned for life. However, the punishment for a riot is listed as only two years. Are they trying to confuse everyone? < 1312532444 732167 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: THERE'S STILL TIME < 1312532446 571029 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them Canadians don't listen to the Queen much < 1312532450 269611 :Nihilist4andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312532453 123703 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're more Rolling Stones fans < 1312532512 684075 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PART #esoteric :"http://haskell.org" < 1312532524 49622 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312532533 809674 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell, client :/ < 1312532534 507250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nihilist1andy: stop reproducing < 1312532536 407681 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1312532550 555427 :Nihilist1andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1312532550 750935 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1312532550 751075 :Nihilist4andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1312532577 524793 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1312532578 483750 :Nihilist2andy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1312532620 394856 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, yet? < 1312532627 716574 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christ on sale < 1312532648 746522 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My irssi bouncer and my head client appear to have been fighting after my connection died, there < 1312532668 21723 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're usually such a nice couple < 1312532701 263753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The previous release of Mac OS X focused on internal changes. My review did the same, covering compiler features, programming language extensions, new libraries, and other details that were mostly invisible to end-users." <-- i remember that, it was a nice review < 1312532710 3520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like he talked about clang for at least a chapter < 1312532723 633697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to an audience the vast majority of which has probably never written a single line of code in their life < 1312532773 127389 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like reddit, only it's just a single voice < 1312532814 602066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lion includes a trusted daemon process called Powerbox (pboxd) whose job is to present and control open/save dialog boxes on behalf of sandboxed applications." < 1312532826 714651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure wish os x didn't suck or i'd be happy that someone is finally listening to good ideas < 1312532837 899898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, and in case it doesn't go without saying, all sandboxed applications must be signed." < 1312532838 96738 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good idea < 1312532839 301974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s i g h < 1312532841 553465 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312532883 304768 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *Why* would you require sandboxed applications to be signed, exactly? < 1312532897 168771 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely, surely sandboxing makes that even *less* useful. < 1312532901 632980 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can get developer's autographs? < 1312532903 157463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because jobs must controleverything [insert picture of steve jobs with horns] < 1312532916 488169 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, Jobs thinks the iPhone is the future of computing. < 1312532920 499324 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's fun? < 1312532929 272159 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asking random people for their autographs < 1312532943 448817 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When, at *best*, it's the future of small-device touchscreen UIs. < 1312532948 491114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're way too social, get out < 1312532972 197114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the iPhone, probably not; the iPad... well, it's closer than current desktop PCs < 1312532986 273436 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did say "at best". < 1312532986 469992 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tthe future is a bad place < 1312532991 251683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apple has decreed that all applications submitted to the Mac App Store must be sandboxed, starting in November." < 1312532992 236684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1312533011 801651 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way to find out what the future's like is to go there < 1312533014 902738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant re computing < 1312533042 778827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What a developer can do instead is isolate the video decoding task in its own process with severely reduced privileges. A process that's decoding video probably doesn't need any access to the file system, the network, the built-in camera and microphone, and so on. It just needs to accept a stream of bytes from its parent process (which, in turn, probably used Powerbox to gain the ability to read those bytes from disk in the first pla < 1312533043 51865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ce) and return a stream of decoded bytes. Beyond this simple connection to its parent, the decoder can be completely walled off from the rest of the system." < 1312533043 712793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOUNDS < 1312533044 826873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE < 1312533046 800728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1312533048 718716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PURE < 1312533049 815334 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ah. Yeah, the iPad is probably *closer*, but it feels almost like for every step forward they made a step back. < 1312533050 804787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNCTION < 1312533052 782754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO < 1312533054 891306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME < 1312533058 458662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKIN' FUNCTIONAL SUPERIORITY SLAM DUNK < 1312533064 225384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHAZAAAAAAAAAAAM < 1312533072 972345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays air guitar < 1312533087 463369 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it lambda-shaped? < 1312533095 894627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ym god < 1312533096 579599 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hmm. Some amount of orthogonal persistence... But you don't own the machine!" < 1312533105 437774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never knew i needed a lambda shaped electric guitar in my life until now < 1312533108 286323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy < 1312533111 53699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy i am going to start a band < 1312533113 560011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1312533114 289537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda < 1312533114 882454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaped < 1312533115 565428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guitars < 1312533117 626841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only < 1312533117 823210 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1312533119 454455 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1312533123 24479 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1312533125 915561 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-246-8.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nice UI, but YOU NO GET COMPILER" < 1312533135 656377 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is it just me, or have you not been sleeping again? < 1312533144 319250 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bring the ellipses shaped drumkit < 1312533170 699563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've not been awake for very long. < 1312533179 839139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than fifteen hours, that's for certain. < 1312533186 868150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just this cool all the time. < 1312533194 101095 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must be. < 1312533196 507710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: OK DO YOU WANT TO JOIN. < 1312533204 60396 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M SO FUCKING IN < 1312533207 139361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to play an instrument shaped like some kind of ... thing. < 1312533223 236364 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tambourines look like composition < 1312533224 581805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monadic bind xylophone???? < 1312533229 908151 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also good < 1312533252 436291 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identity function microphone? < 1312533252 710258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, two lines of keys oriented vertically going diagonally that meet and then go horizontally < 1312533258 55389 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<$> What instruments look like this? < 1312533261 744184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except split into two when they meet I guess < 1312533262 703571 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZIthers? < 1312533269 35112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: A... symmetrical triangle? < 1312533289 7691 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :<=> Can this be made into an instrument < 1312533296 111031 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :KEYTAR < 1312533312 662779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're called the Knights of the Lambda Calculus, no arguments. < 1312533320 985901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the real Knights might sue us but who cares. < 1312533355 735311 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, theremin built into a frame with some shape < 1312533370 231996 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would they sue? < 1312533378 543293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For using their name :-P < 1312533379 417618 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would we not rock them purely and without side effects? < 1312533390 406468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god this is the best worst thing < 1312533406 529215 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll have a song called < 1312533432 555544 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type curry . curry . uncurry < 1312533433 166293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b b1 c. ((a, b) -> b1 -> c) -> a -> b -> b1 -> c < 1312533435 770198 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That < 1312533445 562772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly we have to cover http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1Zb3xmvMc. < 1312533459 136102 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me Y < 1312533492 279503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Genre: Funktional < 1312533493 346047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is so bad < 1312533494 630371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have to stop < 1312533515 749575 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1312533527 657826 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, related videos made me a pedophile :/ < 1312533528 522980 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLLDWw7r3nQ&feature=related < 1312533539 875424 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought she was gonna talk about parentheses < 1312533542 277728 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT NO < 1312533550 168274 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is imperative that you listen to my band < 1312533576 442834 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: WE ARE BUSY CONSTRUCTING A NEWTYPE OF AWESOME < 1312533602 427725 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1312533617 109989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Newtype of Science. < 1312533643 800360 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "Dance" < 1312533658 814495 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will be our single < 1312533671 94703 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta get them out of their ergonomic desk chairs < 1312533707 144268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As soon as you sellouts play at RailsConf I'm quitting. < 1312533741 562405 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first track on the album should be called Cons < 1312533761 662252 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312533774 34589 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type uncurry. curry < 1312533774 605638 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. ((a, b) -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1312533788 353688 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The headlines will read "eta reduction" as our record sales climb < 1312533799 681921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: idgi < 1312533847 430526 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I equate lambda expressions with obscurity, for this metaphor < 1312533851 973803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1312533869 176196 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly more sense < 1312533874 315184 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much, though < 1312533887 47353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1312533895 273226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's explaining how you can't do precise garbage collection for C < 1312533902 717138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the untypedness of memory < 1312533909 965257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hero < 1312533916 569640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :educate the masses....educate..... < 1312533931 735655 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is? < 1312533965 719774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :siracusa, the review-writer < 1312534030 223666 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1312534052 482048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To ensure that ARC can do what it's designed to do in a correct manner, a few additional language restrictions have been added. Most of them are esoteric, existing on the boundaries between Objective-C and plain C code (e.g., C structs and unions are not allowed to contain references to Objective-C objects)." < 1312534055 211942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1312534066 501375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the reverse just has to happen and they'll have two entirely separate data models :D < 1312534079 406515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's per-compilation-unit < 1312534173 295617 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1312534177 755234 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :The address book in lion is literally a book < 1312534179 322690 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANKS < 1312534202 585330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: welcome to five pages up :P < 1312534261 380319 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the videoconferencing app doesn't look like a phone. (Cf. http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/phone.htm ) < 1312534411 176676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and to top it off, normal Objective-C message sending is 33 percent faster." < 1312534418 792621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how have they not eked every last bit of performance out of that code path yet? < 1312534426 504370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it involves looking up a string in a hash table, but c'mon... < 1312534436 600605 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the CD player probably doesn't look like http://homepage.mac.com/bradster/iarchitect/realcd.htm either; I've forgotten what it looks like if you try to play an audio CD in OS X. < 1312534465 459335 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: iTunes < 1312534484 104223 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So meh < 1312534492 846482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I note that QuickTime four is also on that site :-P < 1312534504 707490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Furthermore, ARC does very little to address the other pillar of modern, high-level programming: memory safety." < 1312534512 760956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if most people reading this review just skip this section < 1312534621 698216 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARC? < 1312534662 25680 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only arc I know is that lisp dialect paul graham's was it whatever happened to that < 1312534662 453307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: automatic reference counting < 1312534664 978614 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312534667 331562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it sucked < 1312534673 323352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it continues to suck to the present day < 1312534675 743439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pg's that is) < 1312534693 930876 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I never really understood the point < 1312534722 732080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When searching for unused nodes in a b-tree file, Apple's HFS+ implementation processes the data 16 bits at a time." < 1312534726 302829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant believe os x still uses hfs+ < 1312534728 33165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its amazing < 1312534737 850144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All HFS+ file system metadata read from the disk must be byte swapped because it's stored in big-endian form." < 1312534751 396663 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, apple? < 1312534758 645614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok ok so actually [dunno how to type an at symbol without number keys on os x] has this too) < 1312534761 848858 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is wirefunge going to use the entire of Unicode? < 1312534768 450547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because the on-disk format has to be platform-independent) < 1312534780 697908 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1312534784 497871 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of enough uses anyway < 1312534788 959076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"File system metadata structures in HFS+ have global locks. Only one process can update the file system at a time" < 1312534789 528098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1312534805 381335 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :though being able to embed a circuit in one cell and have it link to another file that implements the circuit wolud be nice < 1312534851 662562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some of those features were an easy fit, but others were very difficult to add to the file system without breaking backwards compatibility. One particularly scary example is the implementation of hard links on HFS+. To keep track of hard links, HFS+ creates a separate file for each hard link inside a hidden directory at the root level of the volume. Hidden directories are kind of creepy to begin with, but the real scare comes when yo < 1312534851 902743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :u remember that Time Machine is implemented using hard links to avoid unnecessary data duplication. < 1312534851 902835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listing the contents of this hidden directory (named "HFS+ Private Data", but with a bunch of non-printing characters preceding the "H") on my Time Machine backup volume reveals that it contains 573,127 files. B-trees or no b-trees, over half a million files in a single directory makes me nervous." < 1312534853 273343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh apple < 1312534931 49675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *ouch* < 1312534994 590527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The biggest is the introduction of Apple's first real crack at creating a logical volume manager: Core Storage." < 1312534996 118662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy < 1312535025 418653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"At the very top level is the Logical Volume Group, which may contain one or more Physical Volumes. A Physical Volume provides storage; it may be a single physical disk, a disk image file, or even a RAID device. A Logical Volume Group exports zero or more Logical Volume Families. A Logical Volume Family contains one or more Logical Volumes, each of which presents a blank canvas onto which—finally!—a volume format like HFS+ may res < 1312535025 620644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ide." < 1312535028 320851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (because the on-disk format has to be platform-independent) <-- presumably this is the case for ext4 and so on too on some platforms < 1312535033 334997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: isn't this just lvm terminology lifted directly :D < 1312535046 364307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, yeah, but for [at] it's more pronounced < 1312535057 174814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because, e.g. every integer, pointer, in every stored object, must be in one format < 1312535059 265583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on all platforms < 1312535077 860614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas file content can be whatever on a (big|little|whichever it is)-endian ext platform < 1312535082 854665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think apple added "logical volume families" step < 1312535106 883323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, LVM is just "volume group made out of physical volumes, from those volume groups you allocate logical volumes" < 1312535116 890553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple has at least one extra step of indirection there < 1312535117 460976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lion's FileVault doesn't just encrypt users' home directories, and it doesn't use encrypted disk image files. Instead, it's Apple's implementation of whole disk encryption. This means that every byte of data that makes up the volume is encrypted. Furthermore, this encryption is completely transparent to all software (including the implementation of HFS+ itself) because it takes place at a layer above the volume format—a layer that < 1312535117 663348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :application software does not see at all." < 1312535118 315480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1312535173 570174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/file-vault-recovery-key.png < 1312535174 661176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/file-vault-apple-recovery-key.png < 1312535175 716716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1312535185 588165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it constructs a private key where the password is the combination of the questions and answers, I guess < 1312535189 57017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then encrypts the key with it < 1312535194 762908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and throws away the questions and answers < 1312535210 544594 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is FileVault finally unshitty enough to actually use is the question < 1312535227 609626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ugh, fixed easy security questions suck < 1312535235 674898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, agreed < 1312535239 954247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm just talking about the mechanism < 1312535244 465548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: It's entirely reimplemented, so yes < 1312535249 533107 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shweet < 1312535253 177474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well they have fixed stupidly easy security questions there... < 1312535254 34296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: There can't be any compatibility problems because it's transparent < 1312535270 668267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what algorithm does filevault use on the disk < 1312535271 380077 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally I don't have to use PGP, anymore < 1312535281 7560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm talking about the mechanism by which Apple prevents themselves from being able to have your decryption key < 1312535283 726574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know < 1312535298 922449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also :D at the Clarus reference in that screenshot < 1312535303 662079 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AES < 1312535306 106056 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way < 1312535307 688240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogcow for those not in the know) < 1312535321 307979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, that is not very specific < 1312535337 181575 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about the keys, themselves < 1312535339 473735 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on < 1312535340 330991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, aes-cbc-essiv? < 1312535347 379126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Like any talented dog, it can do flips. Like any talented cow, it can do precision bitmap alignment." so good < 1312535360 189074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, I mean I can query my disk under linux and get that it uses aes-cbc-essiv:sha256 on my laptop < 1312535369 329417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(device-mapper, crypsetup) < 1312535383 506431 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I haven't set it up, yet < 1312535388 119073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :cryptsetup* < 1312535394 70168 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I couldn't do such a query even if I knew how < 1312535419 777613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: please don't do your standard "LOL [PIECE OF NON-OPEN SOFTWARE] ISN'T OPEN HOW WEIRD" routine :P < 1312535420 348905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, I wouldn't trust it if apple doesn't tell what mode they use aes in < 1312535431 96582 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see if I can find out < 1312535443 51401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You wouldn't trust OS X for anything in a million years, so that statement is misleading. < 1312535446 433378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, while I doubt they would use AES in counter mode, they should specify what mode they use < 1312535454 398778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, or just keep trolling. < 1312535461 453298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars/13 < 1312535464 290101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for cryptography it is very important to be open, so people can trust you < 1312535465 332528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Grep /CoreStorage logical volume groups (1 found)/ and shut up < 1312535469 7425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows the mode < 1312535487 168653 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, xts < 1312535603 736013 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good news? < 1312535622 430212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks fancy :-P < 1312535623 903717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD uses it < 1312535633 639861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, complicated, depends on how they do the key as far as I understood it. Which I don't see any info about ther < 1312535635 305722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there* < 1312535643 652654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, did he really just paste a SQLite schema into one of the most widely-read OS X reviews on the internet < 1312535655 254353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So awesome < 1312535655 991929 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1312535659 226595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars/14 < 1312535701 966627 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He had to pad the article < 1312535729 399848 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Mozilla technology evangelist guy (who's talking about doing multimeeediatic stuff in the interwebs; this is one of the Assembly 2011 seminar things) says "which is particularly exciting" of every sort of technology he's presenting. < 1312535744 606035 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if your job title is "technology evangelist" you sort of have to be excited about everything. < 1312535773 246037 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179113237.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially teen ministers < 1312535864 80100 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You aren't excited about teen ministers? < 1312535879 69605 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're particularly interesting < 1312535951 220864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Imagine taking a dish out of the dishwasher and then having it start flopping around like a fish in your hand." < 1312535955 711096 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it's just about WebGL. < 1312536006 940108 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: can I make a feature request for Wirefunge? < 1312536026 932022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Does the Finder really open in All My Files by default rather than the home directory? < 1312536029 206930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's interesting. < 1312536043 240914 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a little unnerving < 1312536044 954995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can't believe apple is using sqlite for any sort of largish db < 1312536049 120003 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you get used to it < 1312536053 636449 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you shut it off < 1312536058 5730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why? < 1312536069 595976 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use sqlite for every damn thing < 1312536071 115413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because sqlite scales badly in my experience < 1312536073 206937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQLite is incredibly well-written and I haven't heard anything concrete about it scaling badly. < 1312536088 337268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in my experience" is not really worth much, I doubt you've done a tenth of the testing they have :) < 1312536095 962038 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, lets say it doesn't scale as good as postgre then < 1312536102 116635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously it doesn't work well in multiple-user situations but that's irrelevant here < 1312536105 62823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So? < 1312536110 764207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1312536129 222002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's RAM and CPU being used all the time. < 1312536134 916551 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the server tools come with postgres now instead of MySQL < 1312536139 884536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway computers are multi-user. Even if there is only one interactive human user, there are many daemons < 1312536142 354283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a probably unnoticeable performance increase. < 1312536148 416657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They're not causing revisions to be made < 1312536152 484426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312536155 386283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an act a human does by definition < 1312536159 800108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In OS X) < 1312536188 149233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:18 elliott: "Imagine taking a dish out of the dishwasher and then having it start flopping around like a fish in your hand." < 1312536190 826525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a quote from the review btw < 1312536248 239210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aesthetically speaking, the Finder, like the rest of Lion, has been visited by the color vampire." < 1312536252 799357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarry,,,, < 1312536284 373976 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vant to suck your blue~ < 1312536328 130121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the redesigned Mail looks nice < 1312536331 392290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally has conversations < 1312536390 426305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or rather, look at how much of the surrounding interface isn't there." Look how much code I'm NOT writing! < 1312536394 178205 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is actually very nice < 1312536401 451252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apologies if you get the reference.) < 1312536428 250101 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like the Agda lament < 1312536450 385601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? Link? < 1312536463 282481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to the insufferable Rails screencast of two-thousand-and-five yore. < 1312536478 449308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Also, is that accordion effect as annoying as it looks? < 1312536484 446504 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that's what Agda people say when they switch from Haskell :D < 1312536501 873124 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which accordion effect? < 1312536513 724087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're writing less code in Agda than in Haskell... then you were doing horrible things to Haskell. :p < 1312536516 863096 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because no one ever writes any Agda, they just talk about it < 1312536519 851230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: On expanding quotes in Mail < 1312536520 695976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And heh < 1312536530 318419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait, does Mail actually support gmail-style conversations now? < 1312536531 328460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell < 1312536564 784766 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Re accordion, it's not annoying so much as twee < 1312536571 115908 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re conversations, yes. < 1312536580 536091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twee is a synonym for annoying :P < 1312536592 250064 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in some circles < 1312536592 457605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh thank god, the Downloads window is gone. < 1312536618 450831 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, but god help you if you want to look at your downloads without an entire Safari window open < 1312536629 730403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do you ever not have an entire Safari window open < 1312536632 252825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're a Safari user < 1312536646 783798 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Often < 1312536665 493988 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually when I'm done < 1312536666 955053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sweet, Terminal supports full-screen mode; now everybody can forget that the rest of the OS exists < 1312536693 359274 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned that ages ago < 1312536706 579203 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the best part, really < 1312536733 522871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, they've moved around the System Preferences icons again < 1312536737 3818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd almost had them memorised < 1312536811 760684 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doesn't support text mode? < 1312536818 865703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1312536831 446122 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why full screen terminal instead of just not starting up the GUI. =p < 1312536837 952167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/system-preferences-time-zone.png Well that's an ugly square < 1312536839 159048 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: You can do that < 1312536845 13915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: Well, text editing, for one :-P < 1312536850 861730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: You have to start in single-user mode, though < 1312536859 811929 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or log in with >console < 1312536860 803900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then work upwards < 1312536865 300659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Eh? < 1312536871 458230 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fo to the login screen < 1312536872 468905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/auto-correction.png < 1312536875 597333 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the name >console < 1312536878 743406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION taps screen impatiently < 1312536885 899421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ISN;T WORKING/ < 1312536900 278968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: That sounds like a nice security hole < 1312536901 756011 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autocorrect is awesome and slightly unsettling < 1312536911 98022 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You still have to log in with an account < 1312536918 217390 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's safer than that super user nonsense < 1312536921 936982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1312536928 747867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/super user/single user/? < 1312536934 714225 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1312536942 929008 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disabled it months ago < 1312536945 570655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/lock-screen-big.png Well, that's certainly the prettiest lock screen I've seen today < 1312536947 753966 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Years, even < 1312536951 344083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't saying much < 1312536969 524239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FACE WITH NO GOOD GESTURE (U+1F645); MOON VIEWING CEREMONY (U+1F391); PILE OF POO (U+1F4A9)" <-- good image caption < 1312536988 209571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god wait. < 1312536999 351870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Do the emojis work in any application that displays Unicode text via the usual mechanisms? < 1312537004 454321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you send them OVER IRC?? < 1312537010 451933 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe < 1312537010 656422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it now, send us a pile of poo. < 1312537013 727582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it. < 1312537014 161382 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be worth a shot < 1312537016 480647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go go go < 1312537020 168235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE WORLD IS WAITING < 1312537020 457898 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, lemme look < 1312537026 520281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/emoji.png < 1312537026 952077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH < 1312537040 255883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/terminal-blur.png Caption: "I want to know what's behind my terminal window, but I don't want to know every detail." < 1312537042 617236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also good caption < 1312537056 133511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just... gimme a VAGUE IDEA of what's behind here." < 1312537067 544636 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu 11.10's swapping from GDM to LightDM for the login screen; wonder if it's really going to look any different. < 1312537072 380234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Terminal also—finally—supports 256 text colors with its new xterm-256color terminal type." Man, it still hasn't had them? < 1312537074 803517 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :💩 < 1312537076 457746 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent < 1312537081 499306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Nice square < 1312537084 72728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Work for you? < 1312537086 750375 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1312537090 475327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "LightDM is a cross-desktop display manager that aims is to be the standard display manager for the X.org X server." < 1312537097 49551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, freedesktop.org; does your hubris know no bounds? < 1312537112 956358 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179113237.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm fknthrilled for 11.10 < 1312537114 21321 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well of course they "aim" to be the standard everything of everything. < 1312537114 599751 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you *can* send them over IRC < 1312537115 463980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could release literally any piece of software and say it should be the standard forever. < 1312537120 232099 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the poo, by the way < 1312537140 366102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fknthrilled": experts say, not strictly a word. < 1312537150 156717 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[01F4A5] (or something) as rendered by XChat. < 1312537162 85681 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179113237.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :innovation is often made by amateurs. < 1312537163 970514 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fkn- is totally a prefix < 1312537177 358154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least it manages to put non-BMP characters in a bigger-than-four-digits box.) < 1312537183 789945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which amateur is innovating again < 1312537184 656691 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179113237.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPERTS IN ARGUMENT. < 1312537191 31295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1312537194 211915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're being tedious < 1312537195 135478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1312537207 45746 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179113237.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to you being a breeze, yeah. < 1312537208 647698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That sort of looks like a pile of poo. < 1312537209 225619 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Font Book still suck according to the article? < 1312537228 504847 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-89-246.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to call PINs Personal PIN Numbers that Identify you < 1312537231 242066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/system-info-overview.png Well, umm, that's certainly a pretty System Profiler, I guess < 1312537250 101169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/system-info-storage.png Not sure what inspired that colour scheme < 1312537273 950170 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very coloure < 1312537275 539150 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't imagine~ < 1312537292 79840 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you hit the case with a hammer, does it show the resulting bump in that System Profiler picture? < 1312537298 427907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More good captioning: "Unfilled RAM slots are sinful. I am ashamed." < 1312537308 9161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. (If we do not test it, we can continue to believe.) < 1312537330 338028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Want an eBook or PDF copy? Support Ars and it's yours." < 1312537336 496519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I definitely want an eBook copy of this review. < 1312537340 827415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will enjoy it time and time again. < 1312537342 784681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a classic. < 1312537364 27754 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WILL PASS THIS FILE ONTO MY GRANDCHILDREN WHEN THEY ARE OLD ENOUGH < 1312537438 676261 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ON TO < 1312537460 316124 :cheater!~ubuntu@e179113237.adsl.alicedsl.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :unto < 1312537499 304399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mainstream reviews of software and hardware alike spend far less time pondering technical specifications and implementation details than they did only a few years ago." < 1312537506 487915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm definitely not reading a mainstream review, then < 1312537513 541405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This phenomenon extends even to the geekiest among us, those who didn't just skip to the conclusion of this review but actually read the entire thing." < 1312537516 626302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops, I'm being branded. < 1312537527 231334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's finally over. < 1312537582 846764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Hahaha, it really forces you to prove you know how to scroll in the new way before letting you in < 1312537587 58772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's amazing < 1312537601 282389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD." < 1312537601 487043 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1312537622 847131 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD." < 1312537626 196291 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :564) "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD." < 1312537629 560577 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better out of context < 1312537653 871815 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this new scrolling thing is it good < 1312537665 105310 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Aviator controls < 1312537671 489004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im aviate < 1312537675 98783 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlep i dont'e know aht that is helep < 1312537681 787103 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plane < 1312537684 338351 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1312537685 517725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/18/lion_finder_airdrop-4e24a31-intro.png THE POWERFUL SPHERE OF HARRIET < 1312537689 697383 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go up to go down < 1312537692 266001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: up is down down is up < 1312537698 229987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true is false,,,,,, two is nine,,,, < 1312537701 356747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rite is rong,,, < 1312537707 342356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just is injust,,, < 1312537708 980155 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why woudle thye do thate < 1312537709 429642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is unx,,,,, < 1312537712 784170 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AirDrop sadly doesn't work on mine < 1312537717 199343 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too old < 1312537736 604293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: mine was new but then they came out with a new model seven months later,,,,, assholes, < 1312537777 688013 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are scrollbares inverted tooe < 1312537792 719579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill invert ur scrollbar . com < 1312537884 468311 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently paintball games are technically illegal in Canada. Does anyone care? < 1312537929 921867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paintballers < 1312537931 658782 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :paintball always makes me think < 1312537934 496886 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :extreme paintbrawl < 1312537938 768583 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li5mXnHyg9w < 1312537956 370148 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :best music best game < 1312537960 236143 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1312537985 274947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tabs please?" "Are you serious? Drag your fingers across the frets and cluck like a chicken." < 1312537997 147199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/18/lion_finder_airdrop-4e24a31-intro.png THE POWERFUL SPHERE OF HARRIET <-- ad-hoc wlan? or bluetooth? < 1312538008 342869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: radiant sun energy < 1312538013 138403 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ad hoc < 1312538017 718471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(visualised by bands of holiness) < 1312538018 440047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, wlan or bluetooth < 1312538025 789182 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wlan < 1312538028 352610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312538033 372541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_Paintbrawl < 1312538034 94712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1312538037 622995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is it as good as it looks < 1312538041 695717 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, then any card supporting ad-hoc should work < 1312538049 971785 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It doesn't. < 1312538057 635365 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the specifics of why < 1312538059 959668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, but it would also disconnect you from any network you were currently connected to < 1312538064 205395 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: confession time i have never played extreme paintbrawl < 1312538073 766208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: :( < 1312538075 942732 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, I can do standard ad-hoc stuff < 1312538085 373060 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AirDrop operates differently, apparently < 1312538090 366420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1312538091 805041 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though similarly, as well :| < 1312538092 950761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh my god. < 1312538093 155298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have the most glorious mental image of a paintball fight taking place in a barnyard with Frosty the Snowman systematically violating all the animals with akimbo electric banjos, and all of this is in a Benny Hill-style fast-forwarded scene with several dancing hillbillies and a single Mariachi in the background. < 1312538093 155489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sincerely disappointed that I cannot convey this image through this text box. It's fucking fantastic. Probably make a great mural." < 1312538097 165875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover < 1312538124 807117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : AirDrop operates differently, apparently <-- ouch, non-standard? < 1312538133 88059 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me look it up < 1312538166 592414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, what does it let you do? share files? < 1312538170 897377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Radiant sun orbs are very standard < 1312538174 160010 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, basically < 1312538187 211350 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/03/10/inside_mac_os_x_10_7_lion_airdrop_local_file_sharing.html < 1312538198 56832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I wonder how long until the zoom button on windows disappears < 1312538209 32629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does a pretty bad job of automatically sizing things < 1312538217 892990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with the magic wonder full-screen zoom button thing... < 1312538220 637243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a matter of time < 1312538224 912408 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1312538256 795387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the zoom button will take its place, because just having two capsules on the left is really weird... except that that destroys the fact that the button to undo it is in the same place < 1312538265 54450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also undoes any conditioning of users < 1312538266 589552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmm < 1312538276 264124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the buttons will move to the right side :O :O :O < 1312538297 7572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And get the same embossed look, I guess < 1312538312 706505 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Embossing is good < 1312538315 377186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe minimised windows will just stop existing :-P < 1312538339 85565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That at least has the nice sort of consistency that you could have an embossed X on the left to close, an embossed zoom-thing on the right, and nothing else < 1312538343 2185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of inconvenient though < 1312538350 638681 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it happens, you can now set minized windows to disappear "in" the app on the Dock < 1312538356 421269 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minimize < 1312538358 374065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, if Apple are dedicated to this orthogonal persistence thing, then you can just call the window up again if you need it again, who needs minimised windows? < 1312538359 612729 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*minimized < 1312538363 703026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Default? < 1312538368 884440 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, no < 1312538378 245847 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a checkbox < 1312538545 794827 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The persistence thing is surprisingly ungimmicky < 1312538642 787068 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I accidentally hit Cmd-Q in Safari, it doesn't bother asking me if that's okay since I have all this shit open < 1312538646 681395 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just goes away < 1312538652 707600 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I open Safari again < 1312538660 575289 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's all my shit, right where I left it < 1312538743 666635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: It should do the minimising animation, except every single window goes into the icon :-D < 1312538755 533342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, if it was fast enough, that would be a good cue, assuming it's the zoom minimise animation rather than the unbearable genie < 1312538760 753994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1312538764 858432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cmd-H should disappear < 1312538769 711916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's literally the same as Cmd-Q now < 1312538783 466280 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully. Though I do use Cmd-H a lot. Or did < 1312538792 399428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A windows move into Dock icon/windows burst out of Dock icon model seems like the best way to analogise it < 1312538795 679876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just alias Cmd-H to Cmd-Q < 1312538798 672501 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I just keep everything in its own space < 1312538800 884691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or vice versa < 1312538801 463851 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fullscreened < 1312538802 762496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably vice vesa < 1312538836 585202 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can turn off the "app is open" lights < 1312538866 479634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES I READ THAT IN THE REVIEW < 1312538874 834039 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1312538917 208430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when are they going to fix real issues like the Dock being fucking hideous < 1312538944 200375 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's what Alfred's for < 1312538960 412148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not another QuickSilver clone < 1312538964 276464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Sil/sil/ < 1312538986 779465 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than QS, and actually still developed < 1312539001 798100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: QS is actively developed. < 1312539005 422440 :monqy!~chap@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1312539009 936655 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when? < 1312539019 346935 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it died out after SL came out < 1312539019 588821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since recently. < 1312539024 228101 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, neat < 1312539037 560988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quicksilver is now developed by a team of volunteers with work on the open source project increasing throughout 2010.[3] < 1312539037 765922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In November 2009, development shifted to using GitHub.[4] < 1312539037 766103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the end of 2010, a new website QSApp.com was launched, with the aim of unifying and collating all of Quicksilver's fragmented builds, plugins and support groups. Since its launch, the site has included a new Plugins Repository, Wiki and Downloads section. After several months of development, Quicksilver version β59 was released; a marked point in the history of the application. < 1312539049 69644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last release was in June. < 1312539054 730124 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh < 1312539061 211555 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have to switch back < 1312539070 712083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if it's improved much, mind — it used to be so crashy. < 1312539079 72092 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1312539091 766070 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried Alfred? < 1312539114 358008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what is quicksilver now again... the name sounds familiar? < 1312539119 715169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't use OS X. :p < 1312539125 969377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A... thing. < 1312539134 884080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1312539140 743583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like an object-oriented linguistic user interface. < 1312539148 343446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the time it's just used as a launcher. :p < 1312539153 781970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1312539203 552050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so AirDrop is vendor specific. That is rather stupid of apple I think. < 1312539213 810198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iphone + windows can't be too uncommon < 1312539225 789876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if iphone gets airdrop... < 1312539245 197672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen what happens when Apple try to write Windows applications? < 1312539257 750846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not in person no < 1312539262 987004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky. < 1312539264 287950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it terrible? < 1312539267 777986 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1312539280 368370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickTime is one of the most-hated pieces of crapware on Windows. < 1312539287 602708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes that < 1312539297 864042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: I wish I could turn off mouse acceleration and make my trackpad absolute-positioned. < 1312539299 158332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be fun. < 1312539303 547440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my point was that apple would probably gain more from using some technology for airdrop that would also work under windows < 1312539318 466123 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sure there's a way to hack it :D < 1312539320 18083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, maybe not as well-integrated sure... but would at least work < 1312539324 187252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple don't care much about Windows users. < 1312539341 602931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, isn't iphone + windows a very common combo? < 1312539347 58366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than iphone + mac possibly < 1312539353 1982 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows users, on the other hand, care very much about Mac users and their stupid smug faces < 1312539357 345603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1312539359 996840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they just ignore that market segment? < 1312539362 337273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They get to suffer through iTunes for Windows. < 1312539366 597987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't pleasant. < 1312539382 644744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTunes is pretty much the only Windows application Apple cares about. I don't even know why they ported Safari. < 1312539384 874382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how comes iphones still sell < 1312539396 111212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because other phones suck that much more. < 1312539400 501075 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1312539401 391996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, you only need iTunes for syncing. < 1312539405 794918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, android is worse? < 1312539406 710294 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an @phone < 1312539416 210909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Android is... well, getting better. < 1312539422 516135 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Have you ever used Eclipse? < 1312539427 937383 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have idea I wanted to make up some programming language that can do a few things including implement rules of Magic: the Gathering cards. I have a few ideas about it, including: < 1312539430 798797 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Android is worse < 1312539433 982646 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* First class functions and first class rules < 1312539447 495458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current solution to the problem of either buying a bad phone or contributing to the complete downfall of any kind of computing freedom is to... not use a phone. < 1312539450 421422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, for windows integration? < 1312539469 969886 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another place in the interwebs says they support AirDrop only on hardware that has firmware that can do infrastructure and the AirDrop-used ad-hoc mode simultaneously. < 1312539473 6283 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, for writing code on the platform < 1312539476 187172 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1312539478 115414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:16 NihilistDandy: I want an @phone < 1312539484 673794 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Basic types: boolean, integer, static strings (usable only for comparison and that C codes can use directly) < 1312539486 331647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to mumble something about hardware requirements. < 1312539490 593875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, umm, phones are pretty fast aren't they. < 1312539494 657948 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are < 1312539496 609551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, at least android can run java and flash, unlike iphone < 1312539511 550737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Other types: enumeration, tagged union, structure, function < 1312539512 944924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Says the guy who doesn't use Flash. < 1312539513 632006 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those are not laudable qualities < 1312539519 309934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, Flash support on phones is laughable. < 1312539521 930678 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have quad-core phones either out or coming-out-soonishly. < 1312539522 921651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the laggiest piece of shit imaginable. < 1312539526 399184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's utterly unusable. < 1312539527 100796 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dual-core ones they do at least have. < 1312539534 633800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... um, Java doesn't even exist any more for desktop applications. < 1312539536 226709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed, but I know a lot of people do, which is what I'm talking about < 1312539540 723019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft is the only Java program anyone uses. < 1312539545 913986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Function types are allowed to include themself or types including themself < 1312539553 223810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do not consider myself the typical case here < 1312539558 799964 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML5 video players abound, and you don't need Flash games < 1312539559 98369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well that's a change ;-) < 1312539565 365123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, har < 1312539566 202064 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Flash necessary again? < 1312539573 427753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: You do need Flash games, you definitely do. < 1312539579 423599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know I would be most happy with something meego-based :P < 1312539579 858688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOS is just big enough to get them ported ;-) < 1312539591 182000 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Exactly :D < 1312539602 510003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, MeeGo is totally dead. < 1312539607 210225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sadly < 1312539610 144108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1312539611 10335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just hasn't realised that yet. < 1312539620 253711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Procedural rulebooks < 1312539649 128860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : HTML5 video players abound, and you don't need Flash games <-- no one can agree on the format for the video though < 1312539652 161809 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Rulebooks specifying reading/writing properties of an object < 1312539666 961370 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Pure functions < 1312539682 731782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really wish they'd just release the patents to H.twosixfour and stop being jackasses. < 1312539701 182139 :NihilistDandy!~ND@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Just because there's a hostage taker in the house doesn't mean you don't have a favorite child. < 1312539707 465346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I forgot who "they" are here < 1312539724 431012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy, err? < 1312539735 449814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that relevant!? < 1312539749 522235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* External access to/from C codes and other program < 1312539750 686159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A bunch of people. < 1312539756 16417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1312539762 933347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, apple? < 1312539765 746594 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "audio data" API (that lets you actually do stuff to it realtime, instead of just doing playback of existing samples like the HTML5