< 1315008195 934043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm there is no way to define an unboxed type in haskell, right? < 1315008199 293444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with ghc extensions < 1315008210 119662 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in what sense? < 1315008224 945062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: in the sense of being literally unboxed. (I'm creating typeclass dictionaries at runtime.) < 1315008239 464928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current implementation is a bit brittle so I want to do some unsafeCoercing to pass the dictionary more explicitly < 1315008240 214219 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what kind of an unboxed type would you want? < 1315008247 814245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: typeclass dictionary < 1315008252 921605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data OohD a where < 1315008253 182751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : OohD :: (Ooh a) => OohD a < 1315008253 342544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :works but is boxeed < 1315008259 243324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dictioanries are unboxed < 1315008273 939705 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, an unlifted tuple of the members of the dictionary < 1315008291 687978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: oh, that would work. how many unlifted tuple types are defined? < 1315008294 273956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in size < 1315008299 146390 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrarily many < 1315008324 988343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1315008334 901725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: do you know anything about functions in typeclasses internally? < 1315008343 911437 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about them? < 1315008344 755648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I coerce functions into a dictionary, I get the PAP object entered error < 1315008357 866280 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1315008358 686069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1315008362 175458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it sounds like functions in dictionaries are different to functions elsewhere < 1315008368 893834 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it < 1315008375 834081 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a dictionary is probably its own closure type or something < 1315008381 433855 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not even an unlifted tuple < 1315008388 935559 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can't pass unlifted tuples < 1315008390 629587 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :only return them < 1315008403 168894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, well I need to pass them. Is that a restriction on what you can define or will even coercing to that not work? < 1315008414 260712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: And, well, I've successfully coerced non-function classes in. < 1315008417 212744 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not an established way to pass them in < 1315008421 563102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specifically class Ooh a where ooh :: a) < 1315008433 182425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: since it _does_ work for data types, the surrounding dictionary structure seems unlikely to be the real culprit, no? < 1315008469 873105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep, but copumpkin is saying that it is. (if you mean my questions about unboxed tuples, I'm trying to make withInstance reliable, you know, because of the horrible bug that breaks referential transparency :)) < 1315008480 371641 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably don't want unboxed tuples < 1315008514 533190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: seems not. But I need to do it _somehow_ < 1315008521 957624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no core parser, and I don't think writing this as Cmm would be practical. < 1315008544 285115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, "OohD a -> (forall b. (Ooh b) => r) -> r" is not even valid < 1315008547 567288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : At least one of the forall'd type variables mentioned by the constraint < 1315008547 726888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : must be reachable from the type after the '=>' < 1315008551 277816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately. < 1315008558 353464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315008564 242585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries Data.Tagged out of curiosity < 1315008590 425217 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this just wankery out of curiosity or are you trying to do something real with this? < 1315008613 409570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it started out as the former, but I believe if I can get it to work, you can reimplement the reflection package more efficiently like this. < 1315008625 458750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be a neat Hackage package, too :) < 1315008634 68271 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflection is already pretty awesomely efficient < 1315008637 447057 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to edwardk < 1315008654 156106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan says it goes through the FFI, which would be totally unnecessary with this < 1315008665 102582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# OPTIONS_GHC -fno-cse -fno-full-laziness -fno-float-in #-} < 1315008665 262370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those last two flags are scary. < 1315008699 756126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they're just turning off things -O implies < 1315008766 50123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: anyway, I will definitely put this on Hackage if I can get it working, so I'd call it something real < 1315008790 836175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :turning pointers into strings, then into lists of integers, then into a type to get an instance is efficient? < 1315008819 518229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the integer -> type step is binary, i think < 1315008825 788581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1315008844 51515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315008845 786907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointers into _strings_? < 1315008847 36334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1315008848 393891 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the generated code < 1315008851 574910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, String string? < 1315008859 396803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it may be word8 lists < 1315008864 185426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's not really better < 1315008868 864734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the [] is the bad part :P < 1315008898 181938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where < 1315008898 420545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bytes :: [CChar] < 1315008898 580571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bytes = unsafePerformIO $ with a (peekArray (sizeOf a) . castPtr) < 1315008920 256843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it might be inlined into reifyIntegrals as a loop < 1315008924 246845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no way the type part isn't horrible < 1315008926 166354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unary < 1315008933 69525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hmm < 1315008935 93478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1315008940 145462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Zero = Zero Zero deriving (Show) < 1315008940 305398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Twice s = Twice (Twice s) deriving (Show) < 1315008940 305580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Succ s = Succ (Succ s) deriving (Show) < 1315008940 305683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Pred s = Pred (Pred s) deriving (Show) < 1315008940 305786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's wtf-ary :P < 1315008947 197876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeeee my Ubuntu stickers arrived . < 1315008947 899882 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's done a lot of stuff with it < 1315008955 246473 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and says it's almost negligible performance-wise < 1315008962 530732 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why he's building the mpfr binding on top of it < 1315008966 517351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, my hack is cool for other reasons too < 1315008998 503615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was an unsafeCoerce that shut GHC up about lack of instances < 1315009014 708951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reallyUnsafeCoerce < 1315009020 677564 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315009028 776268 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lack of instances? < 1315009031 919789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :withInstance :: forall a r. OohD a -> ((Ooh a) => r) -> r < 1315009032 171499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :withInstance d k = (unsafeCoerce k :: OohD a -> r) d < 1315009032 471219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> < 1315009036 862766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/Code/reify-class/reify.hs:25:34: < 1315009037 22479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Ooh a) < 1315009065 169104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: btw, mine already works enough that you can make (print "hello") print without the quotes in some contexts < 1315009073 3694 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have a better trick for that < 1315009076 425551 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'll work, anyway < 1315009081 354857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even ask the user whether you wanted it to print quotes or not and then do so at runtime < 1315009085 398664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can specify full instances at runtime) < 1315009087 441071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what's the trick> < 1315009097 959304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is a pretty great trick :P < 1315009111 628259 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought it didn't work < 1315009156 376742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> withInstance explicitTestD (ooh :: Int) < 1315009156 536745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package array-0.3.0.2 ... linking ... done. < 1315009156 536989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package containers-0.4.0.0 ... linking ... done. < 1315009156 537094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package deepseq-1.1.0.2 ... linking ... done. < 1315009156 537197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package parallel-3.1.0.1 ... linking ... done. < 1315009157 348140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-6917529027641081856 < 1315009159 462222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> withInstance explicitTestD (ooh :: Int) < 1315009161 442888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :5188146770730811392 < 1315009163 557720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that's not better < 1315009165 440494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It does and it doesn't < 1315009169 340077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main :: IO () < 1315009173 450395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = a >> b < 1315009175 340644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = print "Hello, world!" < 1315009177 413549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b = withInstance explicitLitD $ print "Hello, world!" < 1315009179 338400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1315009181 339329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = do { print blah; withInstance ... } < 1315009183 336406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't < 1315009189 583854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's wtf-ary :P <-- wtf are they nested in themselves for... < 1315009200 497557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: But yeah, apart from that rather major bug, it works, and I think if I can coerce GHC into generating the right Core, it'll work perfectly < 1315009210 206815 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: to only have one inhabitant < 1315009214 402960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's how you define a 0-element type in standard haskell pre-last year's report < 1315009221 966963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: no, 0 < 1315009224 504119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1315009226 730139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus _|_ < 1315009229 123648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1315009229 318782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1315009233 787279 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one < 1315009244 839372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider _|_ a value so much as a disease < 1315009254 227300 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :then hang out in #agda more < 1315009272 782114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider Agda a language so much as INFERIOR TO COQ IN EVERY WAY < 1315009277 69552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think elliott has other reasons to dislike agda :P < 1315009291 451304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, elliott has other reasons to dislike X forall X < 1315009299 881594 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll learn coq first then < 1315009307 454823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have other reasons to dislike oerjan other than that he's oerjan < 1315009318 665312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still somehow manages to order things < 1315009330 964134 :kmc_!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net NICK :kmc < 1315009379 83018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh dear, my code does not work as well as I thought < 1315009384 883905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding "aah :: (a,a)" breaks things. < 1315009386 551327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad story < 1315009396 891013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, is it multiple elements or the different type? < 1315009397 915017 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is _|_ like null but all.... mathematical? And untestable-for, of course < 1315009408 739167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgelo: ... < 1315009419 75601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nope, aah :: a breaks too < 1315009428 494597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1315009431 506239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it the explicit type declaration then < 1315009432 741699 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Barring certain cases of it which can be detected in IO or some BS like that) < 1315009435 689180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is progress! < 1315009439 540251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it's having more than one member :) < 1315009457 817040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suspect GHC rudely turned my data into a newtype? < 1315009464 401197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1315009485 54086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it _do_ that? i suppose if the members are strict... < 1315009494 705178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*member is < 1315009496 277528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1315009505 142678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't strict < 1315009510 35117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1315009537 406881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm is -O on by default? < 1315009539 880086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might depend too much on ghc's exact memory layouts < 1315009549 817821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not < 1315009555 482078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um that's exactly what I want to depend on < 1315009562 998640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1315009571 877001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but if those are varying for subtle reasons... < 1315009599 873507 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;map id unsafeCoerce 0 :: [Int] < 1315009606 822599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well the Core doesn't lie. < 1315009615 464144 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: import means module, which requires a main < 1315009616 751815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would have to make the same decisions to the data type, too :) < 1315009631 813050 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my windows key has been transformed into an UBUNTU KEY < 1315009641 52341 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;main = putStrLn $ show $ map id $ unsafeCoerce 0 :: [Int] < 1315009648 458875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you can use !map id Unsafe.Coerce.unsafeCoerce 0 :: [Int] though < 1315009667 974906 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src print < 1315009668 319119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :print x = putStrLn (show x) < 1315009671 746538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1315009679 337250 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;main = print $ map id $ unsafeCoerce 0 :: [Int] < 1315009680 165484 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:c < 1315009698 632928 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;main = print $ map id (unsafeCoerce 0 :: [Int]) < 1315009703 456422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: oh and you need... right < 1315009703 635429 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[] < 1315009726 188588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin has given up on me at least :-P < 1315009734 567590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to ask oerjan a technical question he can't answer < 1315009737 997247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally I shall be alone in the world < 1315009738 387718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1315009738 948535 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, making some food < 1315009742 950234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNACCEPTABLE < 1315009770 343858 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;main = print $ map id (unsafeCoerce 100 :: [Int]) < 1315009775 755365 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[] < 1315009777 825718 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;main = print $ map id (unsafeCoerce (Just 100) :: [Int]) < 1315009782 642832 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[100 < 1315009804 456037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok i can prove that the elements can't be unpacked < 1315009822 274174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: typeclasses are polymorphic by definition, types have varying sizes, Q.E.D. < 1315009828 703514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictness doesn't solve the segfault < 1315009836 151164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I really _do_ have one too many levels of unboxing < 1315009839 403971 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;main = print $ map id (unsafeCoerce (Just (Just 100)) :: [Int]) < 1315009841 781006 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fidelity National Information Services Inc. (FIS) lost $13M to an ATM theft earlier this year:" < 1315009844 55511 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[-1657324113164070127] < 1315009852 612156 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, this has nothing to do with my BancSTAR inquiries! < 1315009864 957609 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;main = print $ map id (unsafeCoerce [Just 100,Just 10,Just 5] :: [Int]) < 1315009868 162184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: EgoBot responds to /msg. < 1315009869 921422 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[1801440399305314945,6341068823694774913,2449958745646666370] < 1315009872 416611 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1315009917 132482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, this is really baffling; one-element classes work, three-element classes of functions work as long as you don't actually _call_ them < 1315009920 716947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this doesn't? < 1315009926 226128 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> import System.IO.Unsane; unsafePerformIO $ putStrLn "Hello world" < 1315009927 156754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `import' < 1315009938 125327 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.IO.Unsane; unsafePerformIO $ putStrLn "Hello world" < 1315009943 643025 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsane < 1315009956 331556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What is < 1315009958 162340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1315009958 934031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315009962 438960 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.IO.Unsafe; unsafePerformIO $ putStrLn "Hello world" < 1315009977 976570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"for the congnoscenti, data values can be entered but function closures cannot" < 1315009984 846139 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tmp/input.19017.hs:1:7: < 1315009985 48200 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `System.IO.Unsane': < 1315009985 208351 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. < 1315009985 208555 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1315009985 208668 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tmp/input.19389.hs:2:0: < 1315009985 388602 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1315009986 680015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgelo: i am not going to repeat everything i said to Lymee < 1315009987 472944 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1315009987 960527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm. so it was treating the function in the Show class as a data value. < 1315009999 427636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm starting to suspect copumpkin is right about mumble mumble infotable :-) < 1315010021 657529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1315010033 533475 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, when did you say it? Today? < 1315010034 302250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be rather difficult to resolve from within Haskell. < 1315010047 641344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgelo: like above when Lymee did essentially the same thing < 1315010082 363840 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Unsafe.Coerce;main = print $ map id (unsafeCoerce ([Just 100,Just 10,Just 5] :: [Any]) :: [Int]) < 1315010118 928917 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any point to using unsafePerformIO when I have access to full IO anyway? < 1315010122 716286 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops bothering < 1315010162 728406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgelo: er, no. and Lymee is testing unsafeCoerce not unsafePerformIO. < 1315010183 547897 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was testing unsafePerformIO for no good reason I guess < 1315010208 20270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :( < 1315010219 394070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but hmmm. < 1315010222 214294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's so CLOSE to working :D < 1315010227 246764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: time to < 1315010230 224795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT THE COOOOOOOOOOORE < 1315010258 49592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, why isn't it showing the D:blah crap < 1315010266 706653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm. < 1315010271 409784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :M.$fOohInt [InlPrag=[ALWAYS] CONLIKE] :: M.Ooh Int < 1315010271 611901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :M.$fOohInt = M.D:Ooh @ Int $cooh_rmM $caah_rmK < 1315010275 393867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's. < 1315010276 744270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so exciting. < 1315010292 862643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was about to say it might be the type parameter but duh that's erased at runtime < 1315010305 182298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315010352 16952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :M.helloWorld = < 1315010352 214302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ (@ a_apr) ($dOoh_aps :: M.Ooh a_apr) -> < 1315010352 373693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (M.ooh @ a_apr $dOoh_aps, M.aah @ a_apr $dOoh_aps) < 1315010356 643543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking for some "case", ghc-core :P < 1315010360 442830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but OK I'LL LOOK AT THE ACCESSORS < 1315010374 599163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what < 1315010378 393572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait nevermind < 1315010382 601394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :M.ooh = < 1315010382 761208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ (@ a_ac6) (tpl_B1 [Occ=Once!] :: M.Ooh a_ac6) -> < 1315010382 761389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case tpl_B1 of _ { M.D:Ooh tpl_B2 [Occ=Once] _ -> tpl_B2 } < 1315010383 712450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :M.aah = < 1315010383 872404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ (@ a_ac6) (tpl_B1 [Occ=Once!] :: M.Ooh a_ac6) -> < 1315010383 872586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case tpl_B1 of _ { M.D:Ooh _ tpl_B3 [Occ=Once] -> tpl_B3 } < 1315010395 206178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks right to me. although wtf is [Occ=Once] about anyway? < 1315010415 380561 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was once a window-stickered Dell Inspiron has now been transformed into an Ubuntu-and-Windows-stickered COMPUTING MACHINE < 1315010421 19670 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is also a Dell Inspiron still < 1315010429 547850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how inspiring < 1315010443 271457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he;pl < 1315010481 975966 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315010511 871205 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh = object-oriented hat < 1315010512 213424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe it means simply that it only occurs once in its scope < 1315010542 871154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the appended ! might mean it's strict < 1315010565 454777 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah = aspect assembled hermaphrodite < 1315010579 149305 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315010580 398056 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HFMMTYAC < 1315010587 469132 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: nope < 1315010596 309637 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do it. < 1315010596 510557 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: miserable < 1315010600 653119 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I TOLD YOU < 1315010620 248095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm maybe < 1315010620 407939 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :look I'm sorry but I can't control pseudo-randomness < 1315010629 947039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly fonetic morphology-missing totally yarbled acronym case < 1315010658 314423 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: can't you markov it up or something < 1315010666 450468 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am still doing pertinent job things. < 1315010670 502667 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and school things. < 1315010681 848926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm what is that a_ac6 < 1315010684 105155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the type parameter duh < 1315010684 755264 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also procrastinating < 1315010710 604398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wish I could get GHC to figure out how I'm using unsafeCoerce so I can see what the unpacking and repacking looks like :-) < 1315010771 306950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main.explicit_ooh :: forall a_axd. Main.ExplicitOoh a_axd -> a_axd < 1315010771 608965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[GblId[[RecSel]], Arity=1, Caf=NoCafRefs] < 1315010771 769441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main.explicit_ooh = < 1315010771 769627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ (@ a_axv) (ds_dyA :: Main.ExplicitOoh a_axv) -> < 1315010771 769735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case ds_dyA of _ { Main.ExplicitOoh ds1_dyB ds2_dyC -> < 1315010772 284625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case {tick (main:Main, 12)}_dyy < 1315010774 409115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @ (a_axv -> GHC.Prim.State# GHC.Prim.RealWorld) ds1_dyB < 1315010776 278654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : of _ { __DEFAULT -> < 1315010778 276594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ds1_dyB < 1315010780 278194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1315010782 406603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1315010784 313874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main.explicit_aah :: forall a_axd. Main.ExplicitOoh a_axd -> a_axd < 1315010786 435202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[GblId[[RecSel]], Arity=1, Caf=NoCafRefs] < 1315010788 285042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main.explicit_aah = < 1315010790 211507 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :core is spoukey < 1315010790 401553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ (@ a_axx) (ds_dyG :: Main.ExplicitOoh a_axx) -> < 1315010794 386214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case ds_dyG of _ { Main.ExplicitOoh ds1_dyH ds2_dyI -> < 1315010796 270956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : case {tick (main:Main, 13)}_dyE < 1315010798 416717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : @ (a_axx -> GHC.Prim.State# GHC.Prim.RealWorld) ds2_dyI < 1315010800 290432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : of _ { __DEFAULT -> < 1315010802 331908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ds2_dyI < 1315010804 311697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1315010806 463963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1315010808 380249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the ticks are irrelevant, ghc-core just elides these accessors so I need to get the more raw version) < 1315010810 332855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok distinct lack of [Occ=Once]... < 1315010879 854719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to wonder what $ signifies but it'll just mean generated code < 1315010885 430649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also not exported stuff < 1315010888 190717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1315010889 9257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1315010892 138993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exported = no module prefix < 1315010893 290185 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coredump! < 1315010913 810039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: HOW MUCH DO YOU KNOW ABOUT GHC'S REPRESENTATION OF TYPECLASS DICTIONARIES < 1315010918 406250 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much :/ < 1315010933 605766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more than nothing! < 1315010935 225171 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see a $ < 1315010937 202455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me EVERYTHING YOU KNOW. < 1315010947 421889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The $s were elsewhere in the Core. < 1315011158 431641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that [GblId[[RecSel]], Arity=1, Caf=NoCafRefs] might contain the kind of information which causes ghc to treat it differently < 1315011226 524821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh dear, < 1315011228 660996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> explicit_ooh (implicit (defaultD :: OohD Int)) < 1315011228 843866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package array-0.3.0.2 ... linking ... done. < 1315011229 9399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package containers-0.4.0.0 ... linking ... done. < 1315011229 9508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package deepseq-1.1.0.2 ... linking ... done. < 1315011229 9551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loading package parallel-3.1.0.1 ... linking ... done. < 1315011229 539844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :35771238760226816 < 1315011230 826993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the first one looks suspicious to me, Rec might mean record < 1315011231 464555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> explicit_ooh (implicit (defaultD :: OohD Int)) < 1315011233 452972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :35771238621435904 < 1315011235 999188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> explicit_aah (implicit (defaultD :: OohD Int)) < 1315011237 497688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :139731376416641 < 1315011239 677567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> [a few seconds passed] < 1315011243 632341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc: internal error: evacuate: strange closure type 524 < 1315011245 562574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (GHC version 7.0.4 for x86_64_unknown_linux) < 1315011247 491331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Please report this as a GHC bug: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/reportabug < 1315011249 488975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process haskell aborted < 1315011251 490955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess that was during GC) < 1315011253 561888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so there is _something_ wrong with my representation somehow < 1315011255 980540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and hm < 1315011267 699567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's just record selector < 1315011269 838879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these _are_ record selectors < 1315011276 669974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interested in how the record is destructed < 1315011279 491353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the only reason I looked at them < 1315011280 742620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see the case < 1315011318 973172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1315011360 512569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the previous try before I restarted without noisy core output segfaulted as soon as I did the explicit_aah) < 1315011500 31403 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and the new square root of minus garfield meme really gets going. < 1315011599 976878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc won't talk. they know what we're doing. they fear us. < 1315011614 641610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's the meme this time? < 1315011628 759246 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know anything about ghc's representation of typeclass dictionaries < 1315011628 919252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see the linked original < 1315011641 180005 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just prefer to answer questions with vague relative terms rather than absolutes < 1315011656 674357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so it's s/blender/X~blender/? < 1315011658 867978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: me too, me too. < 1315011663 121049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hm, might you be interested in an #esoteric op position? < 1315011668 769370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1315011668 954905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away < 1315011676 989351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: can I pay you to go and force copumpkin to stop making food and start answering my pressing questions instead? < 1315011704 528392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well this is the first one that actually sounds like bender, really. < 1315011704 729808 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :omnomnom < 1315011717 749933 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished my dinner but I really feel like some cereal now < 1315011721 197145 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe sorbet < 1315011727 430059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: STOP AVOIDING YOUR DUTIES < 1315011730 590332 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ate pissed-off pasta < 1315011739 265627 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was only moderately pissed off though < 1315011742 210323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION punches copumpkin, shoves in back of truck, drives to the Haskell lab < 1315011748 205045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIVA LA UNSAFECOERCION < 1315011750 695589 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :noes < 1315011760 850852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly i did not punch enough. < 1315011763 79275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it was just copypasta < 1315011785 847072 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mind copypasta that pasta < 1315011788 698550 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite tasty < 1315011797 696967 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately there is none left < 1315011838 992542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pasta is in the past < 1315011856 893031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey, ban copumpkin until he learns to forego food. thanks < 1315011861 992819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my techniques are _beautiful_.) < 1315011864 62627 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315011880 821292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i _like_ food. it keeps the horrible pain away. < 1315011892 753997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um what we are doing right now is the horrible pain. < 1315011895 398846 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: me too want food < 1315011942 78319 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pain of non-food seems to have temporarily subsided though < 1315011979 269474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey olsner < 1315011984 261941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you know about GHC's representation of typeclass dictionaries < 1315011987 260264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets the knife < 1315011998 445579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he knows nothing, he is swedish < 1315011998 789828 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3, about 3 < 1315012005 166424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: good. tell the three. < 1315012011 662203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now now, we only have a sample size of one for that. < 1315012028 573155 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can't explain. 3. < 1315012038 698331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: THREE WHATS < 1315012043 973928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts mild stabbing. < 1315012045 348814 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 lol < 1315012048 501917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he seems to be stuck at the wrong type for the answer. < 1315012055 50355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have to unsafeCoerce him. < 1315012071 13666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCoerce olsner < 1315012076 253566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: InformationAboutTypeClasses < 1315012082 742598 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCoerse to the right type lol < 1315012106 424040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION punches olsner < 1315012108 784719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION begins major stabbing < 1315012111 656904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes into kill mode < 1315012113 59925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIEEEEEEEEEEE < 1315012118 150741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now he definitely can't help us. < 1315012124 298034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott seems a bit upset. < 1315012132 380919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HE;S A MONSTER < 1315012135 69516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey wait i just had an idea. < 1315012141 782850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I could use the FFI in a maybe less horrific manner. < 1315012152 252465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: specifically: just assemble the structure of the instance in-memory < 1315012156 749926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would just be a few simple pokes < 1315012162 190436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1315012167 761743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315012171 586791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then an unsafeCoerce and peek < 1315012172 709398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315012175 896056 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what you actually have at your disposal is burger dressing, some kebab meat and some fries... and maybe me... in that order < 1315012180 622472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be hard to get GHC to turn a pointer into a value with the same representation :) < 1315012193 643959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not that hard I guess < 1315012197 351965 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, good luck with that dressing < 1315012223 511952 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik it doesn't do haskell nearly as well as me < 1315012237 569330 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :however good *that* is < 1315012240 917787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: rae you on durgs, < 1315012249 500222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is going to do this so weirdly that it will only work in precisely _one_ ghc version. < 1315012254 94935 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't ray on the drugs no < 1315012278 256085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well I think GHC's runtime representation is pretty stable... < 1315012279 773032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stg and all that < 1315012298 861146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they did add those tag bits at one point... < 1315012301 515868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :castStablePtrToPtr :: StablePtr a -> Ptr ()Source < 1315012301 676611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coerce a stable pointer to an address. No guarantees are made about the resulting value, except that the original stable pointer can be recovered by castPtrToStablePtr. In particular, the address may not refer to an accessible memory location and any attempt to pass it to the member functions of the class Foreign.Storable.Storable leads to undefined behaviour. < 1315012301 676848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1315012309 649414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very helpful, Foreign.StablePtr. < 1315012312 250113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :castPtrToStablePtr :: Ptr () -> StablePtr aSource < 1315012312 489857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inverse of castStablePtrToPtr, i.e., we have the identity < 1315012312 729765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1315012315 338849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that might work < 1315012320 699025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :poke the bits in, cast it < 1315012324 506445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then dereference it < 1315012331 420566 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION moves more shredded something into an eating position < 1315012336 99482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll wait for copumpkin to prove that we can't possibly do that and then try that :P < 1315012381 582068 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't do what and then try what? < 1315012393 836841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shredded surtrömming < 1315012398 512324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+s < 1315012416 49715 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hredded hred hrerring? < 1315012431 313081 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :icelandishers are weirder < 1315012437 331113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: can't do it with unsafeCoerce; and write the FFI code < 1315012453 56354 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have surkärring < 1315012469 105638 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not in the "cocktail with cinnamon" sense... < 1315012469 265556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :há, karl < 1315012477 516587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre < 1315012478 504659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusing < 1315012480 348302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop talking < 1315012492 388462 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurr durr elliott är nykter < 1315012496 302131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ojidfio < 1315012507 124550 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :baknykter imorrn! :D < 1315012515 22313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM GOING TO RIP OUT YOUR GUTS < 1315012516 907654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND REPLAC ETHEM WITH DEATH < 1315012522 439338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it iwll hurt SO BADLY < 1315012528 288593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :baknykter, what a horrible state to be in < 1315012530 753149 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :death will do that too < 1315012552 288345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that may be what english calls "knurd" < 1315012573 754257 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :only after you start calling it knurd < 1315012586 998809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders getting some klatchian ice coffee < 1315012612 237426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :knurd is a discworld thing??// < 1315012616 569318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help, this swede is deficient, he doesn't get my discworld references < 1315012621 16529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course < 1315012632 719738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: kill him, < 1315012634 417684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also all swedes < 1315012635 846679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just invade guys < 1315012637 823913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be fine < 1315012640 207663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll all thank you < 1315012654 337276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :withInstance :: OohD a -> (forall t. (Ooh t) => Tagged t r) -> Tagged t r < 1315012654 497079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :withInstance OohD k = k < 1315012659 775299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you _believe_ ghc is too stupid to type this < 1315012664 626731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1315012665 674368 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, norway used to be ours entirely < 1315012668 528685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be the return type that's broken < 1315012669 712894 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :OURS < 1315012673 266826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we cannot do that, they have infiltrated us too much < 1315012674 502656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315012682 915705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes and then it became decent < 1315012705 207026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: can you _believe_ ghc is too stupid to type this <-- huh < 1315012706 243642 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you say that as if it were a good thing < 1315012720 937000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh wait duh < 1315012723 642679 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1315012729 994932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :your t escapes < 1315012733 506562 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV Tropes no longer does Troper Tales < 1315012734 423655 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315012745 292938 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> from selenium.webdriver import * < 1315012745 482553 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> x = Firefox() < 1315012755 51738 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me somewhat of import antigravity < 1315012758 750886 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgelo: u sux? < 1315012771 657825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : OURS <-- IT WAS A UNION OF EQUALS. < 1315012778 838762 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :tvtropes was alive and kicking last time I checked anyway < 1315012788 847226 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hah, as if < 1315012808 402131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :withInstance :: OohD a -> (forall t r. Tagged t r -> x) -> (forall t. (Ooh t) => Tagged t r) -> x < 1315012808 561954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :withInstance OohD ugh k = ugh k < 1315012808 562139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is ~~ambiguous~~ < 1315012844 959421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : also all swedes <-- erm i was contrasting him with Vorpal. < 1315012853 180442 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it could be cave man grunts or a Haskell program < 1315012855 899211 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :highly ambiguous < 1315012858 889960 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1315012946 567105 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nextround.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/luther_burger.jpg < 1315013049 340476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey copumpkin HOW DO DICTIONARIES WORK < 1315013049 667811 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TroperTales/Akinator < 1315013055 688143 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1315013060 310117 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll figure it out later < 1315013083 56124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think copumpkin needs some convincing :P < 1315013093 167418 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :get me a burger like that < 1315013094 452637 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: u r lazy, stop figuring-out-later < 1315013102 81563 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell us now < 1315013105 471879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree < 1315013120 570153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you cannot use lazy as an insult on a haskeller < 1315013124 168334 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NAO < 1315013170 526580 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1315013188 56999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/fifthworldproblems/ good redesign < 1315013224 733358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc fifthworldproblems is not a very typical reddit. < 1315013233 759208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sub- < 1315013239 815404 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't completely horrible it wouldn't appear here < 1315013252 60145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could click the link :P < 1315013264 648107 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Earlier this year hackers raided the computer networks of RSA (EMC), a marquee security firm that protects other companies’ computers. They stole some of the most valuable computer code in the world, the algorithms behind RSA’s SecureID tokens, a product used by U.S. government agencies, defense contractors, and major banks to prevent hacking. It was like breaking into a heavily guarded locksmith and stealing the master combination tha < 1315013264 822688 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :t opened every vault in every casino on the Las Vegas Strip." < 1315013266 750750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you may not quite understand without seeing http://www.reddit.com/r/circlejerk's new design) < 1315013268 614664 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.businessweek.com/printer/magazine/cyber-weapons-the-new-arms-race-07212011.html < 1315013281 344451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if it is that obvious that i haven't clicked the link, it might be worth doing so < 1315013287 287741 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, something is really really wrong if the _algorithms_ are the crucial part < 1315013299 289428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: click the circlejerk one first < 1315013307 44768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it'll make even less sense than fifthworldproblems does < 1315013314 981501 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm, Shelo seems to be up to something irrelevant < 1315013349 73635 :Sgelo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1315013355 464090 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not Shazam. Or Shelo. < 1315013378 516600 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would... explain it < 1315013392 976626 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you can tell because they're speaking icelandic < 1315013403 878866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wat < 1315013430 159078 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hurr durr linkur durr gurr < 1315013445 952908 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SA did the ironic Ron Paul fanclub already < 1315013464 309942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so did everyone, last election < 1315013465 585513 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and kmc stopped? < 1315013482 593532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :circlejerk does not aim for unique humour :P < 1315013493 793934 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody knows how to learn erlang < 1315013504 927310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so kmc and olsner make sense to each other < 1315013509 959422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan and olsner sometimes do but only sometimes < 1315013510 514161 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched Erlang: The Movie three times < 1315013513 236941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kmc makes no sense to oerjan < 1315013517 266372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm confused < 1315013518 289250 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I don't < 1315013530 281089 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hope) < 1315013590 744446 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gather Erlang is the best language to use if you want to talk to a Swedish person from 1987 on the telephone < 1315013651 865460 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Swedish would be way better < 1315013689 571069 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I also think I will momentarily be way non-caring < 1315013711 339391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sjá hestarnirnarni < 1315014076 764557 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315014110 402674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iohooklmlm < 1315014162 767293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know where the details of ghc's datatype memory representation are on the trac < 1315014235 165547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i looked at it once... < 1315014319 858920 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ever came of the tweetable interpreter in C idea < 1315014352 257861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is presumably still working on it < 1315014455 620366 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wondering if you could do a string rewriting system of some kind < 1315014499 221404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Rts/Storage/HeapObjects#DataConstructors < 1315014515 236355 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I thought of that too, but couldn't figure out a way to make it short enough. < 1315014530 745779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that could be more helpful... < 1315014536 676546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: == strings in C == long < 1315014544 970970 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My current one is 116 characters and has 32 bit addressing. < 1315014580 181500 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :size-constrained programming is fun < 1315014588 258269 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i enjoyed http://io.smashthestack.org:84/intro/ < 1315014593 804405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's also out of date, vectored returns have been abolished (as i discovered last i was browsing around these pages) < 1315014648 139976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sigh :( < 1315014683 269035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://golf.shinh.org/ ftw (ok the latest challenges have sucked a bit) < 1315014697 967719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I still have the code for that boot sector Forth... < 1315014704 390198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC I fixed the stupid bug I have < 1315014705 59574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there does not seem to be a specific case for instance dictionaries, though < 1315014723 652148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it's just a data type. it's a matter of getting the right info table things < 1315014732 115616 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: int*a,b[9<<20];main(){a=b;while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);a=b;while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);} < 1315014735 134218 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Thoughts appreciated :P < 1315014795 304432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you know anything about the representation of regular data types, then? :-P < 1315014817 378316 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a data value is a (possibly tagged) pointer to a StgClosure or whatever < 1315014828 359894 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has an info pointer and field values < 1315014829 814242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hm the end of this page which i went through might be relevant then http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Compiler/DataTypes < 1315014857 123713 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: why do you reset a to b after the first while loop? < 1315014859 88687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it doesn't say much < 1315014864 72570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what do the info pointers look like :P < 1315014866 398671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what they point to < 1315014872 262352 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some C struct < 1315014879 344882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :REAL HELP :P < 1315014905 611276 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grab a ghc tarball and look in include/ and rts/ < 1315014914 474434 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also I'm guessing the semicolon at the end of the last line of main is required? < 1315014951 391872 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I reset a to b because otherwise *a is false. < 1315014960 789442 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, of course the semicolon is required ... < 1315014987 385234 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask because this is not required in Perl and I believe a few other languages. < 1315015010 753968 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on whether it's a separator or terminator. < 1315015013 530811 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C it's a terminator. < 1315015039 761244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what PAP actually stands for < 1315015051 927618 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :post apocalyptic produce < 1315015112 153975 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm trying to think of a macro that would reduce the size, but #define is quite a bit of character cost < 1315015115 912724 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, partial application < 1315015134 564533 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Newline is terrible for twitter < 1315015137 646562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: huh. < 1315015174 323008 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Commentary/Rts/Storage/HeapObjects < 1315015225 975473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, oerjan linked that :P < 1315015230 878568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's outdated though < 1315015234 52249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay it has stuff about info table < 1315015234 875560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1315015244 592329 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well twitter is terrible for programs so who's at fault here? < 1315015245 61627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it'll tell me what typeclasses' look like < 1315015248 469167 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how outdated but it does describe what a PAP is < 1315015253 773521 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ... is it you? < 1315015264 662764 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no. never. < 1315015412 263443 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing using for instead of while is equally costly because you can't omit the ;; < 1315015439 123644 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int*a,b[9<<20];main(){a=b;while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);while(*--a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?4:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);} // just saved two characters :) < 1315015451 300184 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait, did I ... maybe it's unusable now :P < 1315015463 970046 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ffffu, never mind :P < 1315015466 932103 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't woyk. < 1315015524 256305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: show original code again? < 1315015531 786740 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int*a,b[9<<20];main(){a=b;while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);a=b;while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);} < 1315015533 598683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is sceptical that 9<<20 will work < 1315015546 142876 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet ... it does! < 1315015556 938908 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a compile-time constant *shrugs* < 1315015562 994205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b[9<<20];main(a,z){while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);a=b;while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);} < 1315015565 343641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might work < 1315015576 815077 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a is an int, not a pointer. < 1315015580 706536 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever though. < 1315015613 833134 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, in your code, a is an int. It should be a pointer. < 1315015645 75012 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a;b[9<<20];main(){a=b;while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);a=b;while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);} // apparently this works though lol < 1315015656 728053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but you can use pointers as int a lot of the time. < 1315015662 84904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it gcc set to K and R? < 1315015671 89536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can even do K and R code. < 1315015675 932846 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't :P < 1315015676 528096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: int is implicit obviously < 1315015677 730737 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it works in C99 < 1315015682 417205 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is crazy. < 1315015682 889436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does? < 1315015685 426757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, my code? < 1315015691 633779 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1315015694 469411 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, mine < 1315015699 354918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int has always been implicit, so yeah < 1315015702 71675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can't you do < 1315015705 786935 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But your code is wrong, because a is an int, not an int* in yours. < 1315015707 574922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b[9<<20],*a=b; < 1315015708 26290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315015712 759936 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1315015716 153344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And yes but you can dereference an int if your compiler is lax enough < 1315015731 448424 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315015741 424341 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Apparently *a=b worked, at least GCC-wise :P < 1315015745 796199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try this in OpenWatcom some time :P < 1315015749 368978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's obviously valid < 1315015751 46721 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :111 now :) < 1315015762 563629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a=b;while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);a=b" < 1315015764 69503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why not < 1315015765 549790 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, it is, but it's all wtf. < 1315015772 119263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"while(scanf("%d",b++)>0);" < 1315015772 945500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hmm < 1315015776 39249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you increment an array :P < 1315015778 860963 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No :P < 1315015779 20996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1315015780 996584 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b[9<<20];*a=b;main(){while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);a=b;while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);} < 1315015805 30927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]]) < 1315015809 78558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe that's well-defined. < 1315015813 21766 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that int was the default type for everything, what I /didn't/ know is that you can still make pointers and arrays without saying "int" < 1315015818 451801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is _definitely_ sequencing point junk going on there. < 1315015842 610410 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length "#define W(x) while(x)\n") - (length "while" * 3 + 3) < 1315015843 768020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1315015862 346781 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uhh, no? a doesn't change on the RHS, so there's only one order that can be implemented in. Now, that may very well still be undefined by spec, even though it's only implementable one way ... < 1315015865 795237 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :L( < 1315015869 878255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:( < 1315015880 332738 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1315015887 282323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1315015892 52189 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length "#define W while\n") - (length "while" * 3 + 3) < 1315015893 106024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -2 < 1315015894 405606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Deewiant: Language lawyer ping < 1315015895 269847 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1315015904 5168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Requires \n. < 1315015915 730875 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm juts golfing. twitter is lame. :P < 1315015919 536888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh hmm, the ?: might count as a sequencing point < 1315015930 359446 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That'd be convenient, but I doubt it :P < 1315015939 741065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK so scanf is lame, surely you can input it in a nicer way. < 1315015956 496100 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: using e.g. getchar is one character more. < 1315015982 872289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Arglist? < 1315015996 971256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope that the pointers to the arguments work out right :P < 1315016004 353404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if POSIX lets you send arbitrary pointers over exec < 1315016006 611701 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length "#define W while\n") - (length "while" * 3 - 3) < 1315016007 706273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1315016009 446976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1315016011 778122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arbitrary integers as pointers < 1315016033 915801 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is the correct calculation. you are only losing 12 characters from shortening the whiles. < 1315016039 930304 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, no? That ... makes no sense. Your memory layout is unrelated on the other side. < 1315016054 173041 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNLESS < 1315016065 362564 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length "#define W while(\n") - (length "while(" * 3 - 3) < 1315016066 250975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1315016073 436894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why can't I just execv(...,(ptr)99,(ptr)909090) X-D < 1315016080 635335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah OK it wouldn't work < 1315016103 644169 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Idonno about POSIX, but the ELF ABI definitely don't work that way :P < 1315016114 766762 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It copies the args into the top of the stack when you call. < 1315016119 17219 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they have to be ... y'know ... strings. < 1315016156 781345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_You're_ a string. < 1315016184 42788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(a>b)putchar(*--a); < 1315016186 535466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How about: < 1315016188 677924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :putchar(b); < 1315016191 489963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just null-terminate your output < 1315016192 482944 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length "#define W ;while(\n") - (length ";while(" * 3 - 4) < 1315016193 389573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1315016199 420406 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1315016200 577856 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ITYM puts < 1315016206 448690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah yeah < 1315016212 716455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *a=0;puts(b); < 1315016212 876630 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: b is an int * < 1315016219 170607 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So that's platform-specific behavior. < 1315016223 67679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So? It's not UB < 1315016229 319540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think < 1315016237 265412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need to cast via void-pointer to be pedantically correct < 1315016239 327453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or union < 1315016240 155887 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello? Endianness. < 1315016246 7791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's platform < 1315016253 137452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so what, just mangle it afterwards < 1315016258 435416 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it stands, this is platform-neutral. < 1315016264 43434 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wurve that :P < 1315016266 504816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom is platform neutral < 1315016272 797371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway no it isn't because int is platform-specific < 1315016276 54930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are living a lie < 1315016319 31671 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmmmmm ... you can write code that supports ints of any size >= something. So, although it exposes platform differences, you don't need to adapt to them to write code. < 1315016339 918374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Living < 1315016340 186850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1315016340 765803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lie < 1315016342 67775 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because people will totally write code in this :P ) < 1315016367 380967 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the first while had a ; in front of it then my macro would be exactly equivalent to the current code in byte length. :P < 1315016373 241425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b[9<<20],*a=b;main(){while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);a=b;while(*a)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];for(;a>b;putchar(*--a));} < 1315016375 295777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, same length < 1315016459 661554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your current output is limited in length < 1315016465 176345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I propose return*a; < 1315016468 973026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also limited but oh well < 1315016474 424564 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on :P < 1315016499 210561 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I didn't set strict requirements, but I also don't want to make it so you can't write 99 bottles of beer :P < 1315016556 601486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like your practice-oriented thinking < 1315016566 186715 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm walkin' a line here X-P < 1315016574 630485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: b[9<<20],*a=b;main(){while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);for(a=b;*a;)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);} < 1315016577 576573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One fewer byte < 1315016593 599354 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, clever < 1315016599 234552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: b[9<<20],*a=b;main(){for(scanf("%d",a++)>0,a=b;*a;)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(a>b)putchar(*--a);} < 1315016601 112972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many fewer < 1315016618 139992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One hundred and three bytes :) < 1315016620 15953 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so you can omit the ;'s < 1315016633 461569 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1315016634 350189 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1315016635 310595 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ... no. < 1315016638 749793 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoah, wtf just happened though. < 1315016641 45890 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION read the code. < 1315016643 285585 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to re-understand this code X-D < 1315016661 953497 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait ... I'm not confident that your resultant code ... does anything vaguely sensible. < 1315016685 292180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why not? < 1315016693 377867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: , sequences. < 1315016700 577593 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :before scanf was in a loop though. < 1315016704 323834 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it is the initializer < 1315016704 761562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to me like it reads only one int < 1315016706 172028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(a;b;c)d; is like a;while(b){d;c;} < 1315016718 309548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a,b;c < 1315016720 280029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is like a;b;c roughly < 1315016721 69413 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, with scanf as an initializer this is nonsense. < 1315016724 20782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So my transformation is perfectly valid. < 1315016726 117091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, why? < 1315016730 143245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1315016730 819077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1315016731 893875 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it was in a loop ... < 1315016735 155433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, right >_> < 1315016736 523033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1315016746 203366 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your program can be no more than one int :P < 1315016759 179536 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315016783 409308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, as long as int is big enough < 1315016789 492274 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It ... is not :P < 1315016807 606719 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Every program will immediately terminate. < 1315016829 986626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's such goal-oriented thinking. < 1315016837 756482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is size-oriented, which is your original goal. < 1315016849 719799 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have many goals! < 1315016854 868077 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Size is just the packaging of those goals :P < 1315016871 176669 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more #define less twitter plz < 1315016881 754176 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: #define iz sukk < 1315016891 714270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So are we golfing the Kolgomorov complexity of an FSM < 1315016894 275973 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But #esoteric ... #esoteric is awesome 8-D < 1315016904 279467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we do it in a language that isn't C so that we can actually acheive TCness :P < 1315016925 13569 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Suggestion? sed maybe? < 1315016925 173303 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (length "#define W(x);for(;x;);\n") - (length ";while();" * 3 - 4) < 1315016926 252615 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1315016930 849317 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315016932 188030 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315016932 853381 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be terrible :P < 1315016944 186113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskellHaskell < 1315016944 484161 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that macro won't even help < 1315016951 558367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or J < 1315016955 181041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J has a really tiny Factran interpreter < 1315016957 120544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like forty bytes < 1315016961 914647 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: perl for great win < 1315016962 117767 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you write one-line Haskell programs DURPADURP LOLOLOL I DONT GET SYNTAXES < 1315016976 160322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1315016980 919589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :({~1i.~(=<.))@:* < 1315016984 675867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC interp in J < 1315016994 910637 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's J though :P < 1315017008 369172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...dude, really? < 1315017014 606445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me you know of J :P < 1315017031 812055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's the really concise ASCII APL derivative? Array language? < 1315017032 274557 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhhhhhnope < 1315017035 142113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, it's been talked about tons in here. < 1315017043 574291 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't listened :P < 1315017045 307405 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a FRACTRAN interpreter in Haskell could be pretty short < 1315017051 841966 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: while elliott seems to be a Haskell fanboy, he actually secretly worships J. < 1315017058 909111 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only talks about it occasionally to keep it a secret. < 1315017065 478745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J is pretty close to a perfect language, apart from its IO facilities which suck and its lack of bignums < 1315017073 240977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's pretty much perfect in its niche < 1315017169 720028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ooh, someoen wrote a fractran self-interp < 1315017179 640510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee < 1315017182 559302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~beder/interpreter.fr < 1315017193 507130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :details at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1749905/code-golf-fractran/1773868#1773868 < 1315017210 30883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.math.uiuc.edu/~beder/interpreter.frp < 1315017216 494016 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is the best choice for all golfs. < 1315017298 517773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh wow, someone made a tiny one < 1315017302 870641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1749905/code-golf-fractran/1802570#1802570 < 1315017313 570109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 84 fractions < 1315017322 588378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fast, too < 1315017430 326968 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: with Perl your golfs will be butiful and eliphant < 1315017438 417005 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pffff < 1315017444 619333 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys < 1315017447 666944 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your not-C languages. < 1315017492 527714 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though J looks like an excellent choice from what I can tell. < 1315017494 566262 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than Perl. < 1315017497 892688 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for golfing < 1315017510 399470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does anyone know OpenCL < 1315017511 91163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all < 1315017511 580996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever < 1315017515 80941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to kill someone < 1315017530 892097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm: /usr/lib/nvidia-current/libOpenCL.so: no symbols < 1315017534 361485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :REVEAL YOUR SECRETS < 1315017553 97690 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know I click a little black box with a > and _ in it on my top panel to open command line < 1315017556 280298 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the same thing? :3 < 1315017567 847195 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am glad to help. < 1315017577 523783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you type that and hit enter < 1315017586 323731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO I DONT WANT TO WATCH A VIDEO TUTORIAL YOU SHITFACKS < 1315017626 909834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://developer.amd.com/sdks/AMDAPPSDK/assets/AMD_APP_SDK_Getting_Started_Guide_v2.4.pdf < 1315017627 385560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1315017628 274614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shits < 1315017629 451563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :die < 1315017630 427150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a fucking < 1315017630 950577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fire < 1315017652 797029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK MAYBE THER EIS A CUDA TUTORIAL MAYBE I WONT KILL EVERYONE < 1315017685 882270 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott - future serial killer < 1315017778 526560 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/ ? < 1315017825 509895 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a language that consists entirely of Unicode character commands and nothing else < 1315017839 542575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: way ahead of you, years ago < 1315017849 727150 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOUUUU < 1315017898 676971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f l=unfoldr(fmap(join(,)).find((<2).denominator).map(*)l)in f[3%2]72 < 1315017899 819691 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Real.Ratio a < 1315017899 980070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1315017907 563797 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1315017915 320255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.codeproject.com/KB/GPU-Programming/IntroToOpenCL.aspx ;; so I finally find a non-video tutorial about OpenCL and it's using fucking C++ bindings. < 1315017948 578196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"See the OpenCLâ„¢ 1.0 specification for the corresponding C API." < 1315017954 474733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i hope itsfreely available < 1315017962 158238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES IT IS YES YES YES < 1315017966 626811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSS < 1315017967 787510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.khronos.org/registry/cl/sdk/1.1/docs/man/xhtml/ < 1315017970 115831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSSSSS < 1315018024 406466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f l=unfoldr(fmap(join(,)).find((<2).denominator).mapM(*)l)in f[3%2]72 < 1315018026 246854 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [108 % 1,162 % 1,243 % 1] < 1315018042 598672 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-176-100.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315018042 758989 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-176-100.dsl.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1315018042 759057 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1315018144 466558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1315018147 734859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.khronos.org/registry/cl/specs/opencl-1.1.pdf < 1315018148 656680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at < 1315018150 840194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bullet points it uses < 1315018159 525802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that's one of the Word defaults < 1315018160 451469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is so < 1315018161 878404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible < 1315018162 763374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1315018199 331471 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the Reia language < 1315018333 901644 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-minecraft IS A POLICE STATE BAAAAAWWW < 1315018394 552886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll unban me if you find a decent chunk of public domain OpenCL sample code because this reference is terrible < 1315018397 583521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By me I mean you < 1315018442 405321 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, I'm Kafka the Cat, and I'm here to take you on a quick tour of the Reia programming language. < 1315018445 616660 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reia-lang.org/images/kafka.jpg < 1315018455 264171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kafka < 1315018459 240196 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its staring into my soul < 1315018487 529706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's what Kafka's meant to do < 1315018709 697405 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm trying to find what's interesting about reia < 1315018718 493722 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo do you know < 1315018750 912489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=opencl+sample < 1315018753 447726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unban? < 1315018774 793564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some of those might work, I'll look at them in a minute < 1315018809 109539 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has mad skills < 1315018831 183477 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reia commit message: Get rid of the weird ass "Main" module which made no sense, factoring it into < 1315018832 170572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not my fault you googled with samples and me with examples < 1315018834 88161 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the System module. Oh, and "string".puts() is now officially the way you should be printing strings in Reia. If someone asks you for a Reia hello world and you tell them System.puts("Hello, World!") you're DOING IT WRONG < 1315018856 283255 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lulz I'm just mad at google knowledge dawg < 1315018865 631464 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitches be all like "yo how u get so god?" < 1315018955 984082 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I be like "whatev iz jus how i roll" < 1315019103 367364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hight Dynamic Range Rendering with God Rays Effect Sample < 1315019105 569710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS TOO COMPLIC;ATED < 1315019111 921903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google is mad at understanding CakeProphet spelling < 1315019166 587395 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the reia examples on the reia github are interesting they're all boring < 1315019210 24850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling "lol y cats land on feet yo" gives some good hits < 1315019216 314364 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, a not terrible language on the Erlang VM? < 1315019229 144462 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315019230 27822 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ETOGRHS < 1315019230 187606 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it not terrible < 1315019238 494456 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how are other languages on the erlang vm not not terrible < 1315019253 557224 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, is Erlang considered a decent language? < 1315019263 325314 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or are there other languages on the Erlang VM that I don't know about? < 1315019268 210519 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the amazing power of blocks" < 1315019269 546663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang is decent, yes. < 1315019273 28441 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget nearly everything I ever knew about Erlang < 1315019302 615634 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learned the basics one day, never bothered to use it, forgot it < 1315019329 282022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the story of monqy and erlang < 1315019347 901606 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a very dependable standalone platform, good concurrency support, and allows hot swapping of code. The language itself is somewhat mediocre I guess but the platform is pretty solid. < 1315019351 42312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evil scientist project #663: breed cats to land on head < 1315019361 715449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does very dependable standalone platform even mean < 1315019366 242427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the interpreter doesn't segfault much"? < 1315019369 358319 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1315019378 179366 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :standalone as in standalone < 1315019384 239577 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependendable as in dependable. < 1315019384 862350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I certainly want a segfaulty interpreter < 1315019386 384484 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1315019387 888518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :platform as in platform. < 1315019389 435719 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want that < 1315019390 79187 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all very simple. < 1315019394 535740 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess saying I want it works too < 1315019428 915447 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if I was constructing it in that manner I would have started with "yes" and left out the "certainly" < 1315019448 408889 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there people who actually understand Haskell's type system, but still prefer dynamic types in general? < 1315019456 690432 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know many such people, but i spend all day talking to fellow Haskell zealots < 1315019478 818078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the only examples I know involve people whose self-asserted understanding of types I doubt < 1315019479 52231 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have a good grasp of Haskell's type system but also find dynamic typing to be a good approach as well. < 1315019479 664423 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember disliking erlang's syntax and type system < 1315019482 814021 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would Bracha count as? < 1315019483 267388 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the arguments against i hear are "Java is so verbose!" and "dynamic types give me a single ad-hoc variant type!" < 1315019483 734353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one of them < 1315019488 441725 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I am a language agnostic. :P < 1315019498 94565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: tell me about how much you love PHP then? < 1315019503 299749 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1315019511 301454 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is like perl if perl were not a good language. < 1315019514 582412 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one of my classes will involve PHP < 1315019514 742381 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not perl. < 1315019516 410860 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315019517 972454 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use dynamic types in Haskell sometimes < 1315019525 890142 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets laugh at sgeos class < 1315019527 314231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't care, we've told you to transfer about nine billion times < 1315019529 272650 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha h aha :''( < 1315019535 534189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've got one person to blame (the person is you) < 1315019540 94238 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems clear that checking should be the default, and checks disabled when necessary, rather than the opposite < 1315019549 503902 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: come on can't I be neutral and also have strong opinions of bad languages, as long as my preferred languages go across the spectrum? < 1315019561 256779 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still makes me neutral about categories of languages. < 1315019567 74490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: haskell programs still do dynmic type checking, mind you. like input validation. < 1315019571 810283 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :categories of languages? < 1315019575 793456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :classifications < 1315019578 32278 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever term you want < 1315019592 201604 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1315019593 693581 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic typing, static typing, lazy, strict, functional, OO, procedural, etc < 1315019600 234986 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, categories. of. languages. < 1315019621 644693 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly the categories are bullshit < 1315019632 500293 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I asked < 1315019632 924643 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you want them to form some kind of taxonomy < 1315019640 417009 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a many-dimensional space of language attributes < 1315019650 317480 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which combine and co-exist and interact in all kinds of interesting ways < 1315019659 844552 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want them to form words that can describe what I am talking about. is that like a taxonomy? < 1315019692 242795 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel the main reason to rigidly divide the world into functional and OOP languages is to justify ignoring "functional languages", or to justify hating on OOP languages without understanding them < 1315019692 402388 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't think that they're discrete categories. < 1315019764 629610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers static type checking of input by quantum suicide < 1315019764 830719 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly what's wrong with having a word to describe an observed characteristic shared by multiple languages? < 1315019775 526023 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it bullshit? < 1315019805 273590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :every universe in which someone tries sql injection to your service is destroyed. < 1315019861 797699 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sounds like a risky security mechanism. < 1315019872 918270 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless we're the alpha timeline of course. < 1315019875 156912 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then everything is fine. < 1315019915 212695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's quantum immortality, we're fine. < 1315019957 610752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCL is fucking weir < 1315019958 56186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1315019966 558353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a Haskell DSL that compiles to it and then never use it again < 1315019967 247255 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, sort of. Quantum immortality, means, even if you are dead, you are still live in other timeline, therefore you can still observation and doing everything like before. < 1315019971 988369 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not in the other timeline. < 1315020011 642443 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Haskell's type system is mathematically good type system. You can use classes in some cases too. < 1315020017 264298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT THESE EXAMPLES ARE TERRIBLY-WRITTEN >_< < 1315020020 962341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ciErrNum = clEnqueueWriteBuffer(cqCommandQueue, cmDevSrcA, CL_FALSE, 0, sizeof(cl_float) * szGlobalWorkSize * 4, srcA, 0, NULL, NULL); < 1315020021 152162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ciErrNum |= clEnqueueWriteBuffer(cqCommandQueue, cmDevSrcB, CL_FALSE, 0, sizeof(cl_float) * szGlobalWorkSize * 4, srcB, 0, NULL, NULL); < 1315020023 475384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather the API is terrible < 1315020025 448685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But jesus < 1315020103 168048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oclCheckErrorEX" I see Microsoft had their way with this API >_< < 1315020182 948538 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what of the alternatives to opencl, assuming they're good and exist?? < 1315020279 42061 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as duration of computer use t increases, number of idling terminals n increases < 1315020282 504879 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet's law. < 1315020514 901227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: CUDA, nvidia-only and basically deprecated and probably no nicer < 1315020528 827964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I don't have OpenCL.h. I guess I need to download the "SDK" < 1315020543 899996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much for an open fucking standard, the .hs are available online but I doubt that'll do me much good < 1315020573 349397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the same day Khronos Group announced the new OpenCL v1.1 specification update (June 14th, 2010), NVIDIA released OpenCL v1.1 pre-release drivers and SDK code samples to all GPU Computing registered developers. Log in or apply for an account to download latest NVIDIA Drivers and Toolkits. < 1315020576 685052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to kill you. < 1315020579 897841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to eat your brains. < 1315020591 33841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not telling you where I fucking live you pieces of crap aaargh give me the fucking header files < 1315020786 886285 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh elliott < 1315020790 775461 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.khronos.org/registry/cl/ ????? < 1315020797 547326 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.khronos.org/registry/cl/api/1.1/opencl.h ????? < 1315020805 656029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Yeah I found those < 1315020808 36100 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not the right file < 1315020808 374112 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1315020819 373351 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unban plz < 1315020826 862455 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <# <# < 1315020846 812453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The links you found didn't really help me, but fine < 1315020850 260232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more insulting greatness, though < 1315020889 141668 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is the worst op of all. < 1315020902 333148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: noted. < 1315020909 137869 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :his greatness is, well, not great. < 1315020915 846269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1315020916 727814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: excuse me, I banned him for insulting the greatest musical work of our century. < 1315020923 197731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be crime to let him stay. < 1315020925 65914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1315020939 513963 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1315020942 889900 :mauke_!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke JOIN :#esoteric < 1315020943 49873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes (Insane Clown Posse collaborating with Jack White to cover Mozart's Lich Mich im Arsch, obviously) < 1315020994 662194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... SEE < 1315021035 909014 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1315021037 629537 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is by defintion, unbannable for any legitimate reasons < 1315021090 994498 :mauke_!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke NICK :mauke < 1315021172 56503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Hey, I'm going to reban you again, because the nvidia code you linked me to uses fucktons of helpers that I can't find the definitions of < 1315021213 69215 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ban google lulz < 1315021262 311613 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I did was good??? < 1315021370 990690 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no never < 1315021995 138208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCL error on line 37: CL_OUT_OF_HOST_MEMORY < 1315021995 784373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. < 1315022067 241042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm. < 1315022157 475524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i am just going to write this one program and then write a haskell library that symbolically compiles code to OpenCL so that I never have to do this again...... < 1315022263 109861 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good idea < 1315022544 86838 :ive!~nn@189.179.239.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315022661 902072 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't there a couple of those already? < 1315022694 361912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are you thinking of GPipe? < 1315022697 554857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just does OpenGL. < 1315022708 292710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCLRaw library: The OpenCL Standard for heterogenous data-parallel computing < 1315022711 681472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the only grep on hackage for opencl < 1315022730 905823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a CUDA binding too but it's low-level. < 1315022737 794933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you _are_ thinking of GPipe since it was publicised a while back. < 1315022737 955122 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's Nikola < 1315022740 186303 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might be CUDA too < 1315022758 196947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no Nikola on Hackage but I think I've heard of it before. < 1315022772 906468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it will inevitably be inferior to what I write. < 1315022788 347933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We describe Nikola, a first-order language of array computations embedded in Haskell that compiles to GPUs via CUDA" < 1315022790 249755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yeah, CUDA. < 1315022823 56036 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also vague mutterings about a GPU backend to Double Penetration Haskell < 1315022831 443157 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry Data Parallel Haskell < 1315022845 733712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEH < 1315022850 823986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That requires, like, hacking GHC and stuff. < 1315022871 56443 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you begging me for details of the StgClosure struct layout earlier? < 1315022898 691791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yeah, but I was doing it all from within the cosy confines of a Haskell file. < 1315023094 198605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh, I forgot that's why I disliked DPH < 1315023096 269032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No typeclasses) < 1315023427 210699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Thanks for the pointer to Nikola, I think I can steal a lot of things from this paper < 1315023505 441199 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1315023881 357635 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you not asleep yet? < 1315023930 715569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: You not asleep yet? < 1315023934 324055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And furthermore: What _is_ sleep? < 1315023938 288438 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315023942 473431 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those < 1315023965 547595 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-56.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1315024118 440420 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315024401 204919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES OPENCL EVEN WORK < 1315024404 262782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IS LIFE < 1315024501 754298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN YOU BE OUT OF HOST MEMORY < 1315024502 257763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW < 1315024532 512583 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was leaked for the use of skynet < 1315024967 799912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey oerjan < 1315024972 29523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GET TO HELP ME WITH MY OPENCL COED < 1315024984 327603 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Opeth so good? < 1315024996 814677 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it because they are swedes? < 1315024999 768132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make my code work < 1315025000 319397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or die < 1315025004 585136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have free will. < 1315025015 725352 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I believe in determinism < 1315025018 134193 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore I don't < 1315025545 527497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan how does opencl........ < 1315025547 391281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :work < 1315025649 695889 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you going to HacBeans? < 1315025655 436035 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you going to HacBeans? < 1315025662 523275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1315025677 723452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe if you can tell me what typeclass dictionaries look like in memory I will :-P < 1315025697 169937 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just like any other kind of dictionary? < 1315025701 254806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, i know almost nothing about opencl. < 1315025729 405139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Neither do I! < 1315025734 750821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Woo < 1315025741 63006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a coincidence! < 1315025907 649847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you run out of memory good GOD < 1315025912 752989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try PyOpenCL < 1315025920 487095 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pyopencl... < 1315025933 134229 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you running out of memory < 1315025933 999880 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1315025937 649275 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that happen < 1315025941 562732 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or work < 1315026012 97576 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just out of curiosity, why are you doing all that unsafe stuff to pass custom dictionaries, rather than just constructing a custom instance? < 1315026038 867582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: You can't do that at runtime < 1315026057 280507 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :data OrdInstance a = OrdInstance (a -> a -> Bool) < 1315026060 153281 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, effectively < 1315026060 829804 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :data OrdInstance a = OrdInstance (a -> a -> Bool) a < 1315026072 327140 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Ord (OrdInstance a) where < 1315026074 675359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't really work < 1315026077 64910 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315026082 200602 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't guarantee they're the same? < 1315026086 580297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Foo a where bar :: (forall f. f a -> g a) -> g () < 1315026103 82108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you can do it for each individual class < 1315026113 677379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure you can really do it in general < 1315026117 605149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be wrong < 1315026121 436919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway bundling it with values like that is gross < 1315026134 570593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Anyway, this started out as something which let you define an instance for a newtype and then use that as the instance for the main type in context < 1315026149 985006 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315026152 364316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. define a crazy show instance for a newtype over Ints and then use it as an instance for Ints in a certain context < 1315026169 978864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to generalise that by coercing the obvious record translation of a class into my existential dictionary type < 1315026197 481911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which lets you construct, at runtime, an arbitrary instance record for a type, and then use it as an instance for that type for some code < 1315026230 692281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problems are twofold: one, GHC likes to make a bunch of correct assumptions about instances that my crazy code violates; two, I can't get record → dictionary coercion to work quite right, although I've had some very promising failures. < 1315026247 151038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm focusing on the latter because I have this sneaking suspicion the former might not be entirely resolvable. < 1315026309 783913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> ctx = cl.create_some_context() < 1315026309 943691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): < 1315026309 943893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : File "", line 1, in < 1315026309 943997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/pyopencl/__init__.py", line 346, in create_some_context < 1315026309 944101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return Context(devices) < 1315026310 287510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pyopencl.RuntimeError: Context failed: out of host memory < 1315026314 87256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good, at least it fails with the bindings too. < 1315026413 279517 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes consistency of failure is a good thing . < 1315026448 356776 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315026495 873070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Hmm? < 1315026537 451015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe my GPU just has no memory :| < 1315026620 695887 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll rent you my extensive GPU collection if you want < 1315026628 802218 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-56.elisa.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315026663 131484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I'll take you up on that, if a restart doesn't fix things < 1315026666 3351 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-56.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1315026676 364539 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-56.elisa.ee PART :#esoteric < 1315026676 697449 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, my machine is offline right now < 1315026681 407593 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to annoying linux issues < 1315026687 5688 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I'd probably just let you use it for free < 1315026688 255423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "dviout" program seems to have some mistakes in it, such as lack of all commands available in menus and keyboard configuration, and some things don't work. But in general the program works OK, and in fact it is the only one that can print. < 1315026692 373439 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you don't peg my GPUs for days on end < 1315026777 589064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315026788 151803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315026792 449017 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to use "CMYKX" color specials, where the "X" parameter is like "K" but is used only on printers that do not print in colors (or if color printing is turned off). < 1315026796 776988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's happy... I guess I really was out of ram :-| < 1315026797 537522 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: no worries, I don't think any of us are into that stuff. < 1315026833 735409 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Each parameter is one byte in range 0-255) < 1315026935 571517 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to learn IMAP I guess. < 1315027013 119786 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION skims through dozens of RFCs < 1315027187 654335 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also nevermind just one actually. < 1315027475 909649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCL error on line 62: CL_BUILD_PROGRAM_FAILURE < 1315027476 300220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT HELPFUL < 1315027503 947118 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey at least it gave you a line number. < 1315027587 705349 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have now watched Erlang: The Movie four times and I still don't know Erlang < 1315027607 775755 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should read some documentation instead of just watching swedish people make telephone calls < 1315027649 410534 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing gets me quite as excited as writing IMAP code. < 1315027689 950984 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's a fairly simple language. < 1315027709 882685 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a standard practice something-or-other that is highly confusing to me though. < 1315027731 690121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compilation error: :1:34: error: invalid address space for argument to __kernel function < 1315027732 30569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :__kernel void crack(__global int a) < 1315027732 190749 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not remember what it is called. < 1315027735 472246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well ooh la la. < 1315027745 858307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you doing exactly? < 1315027767 400453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenCL. < 1315027774 988576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm cracking crypt() because why not. < 1315027775 379236 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right < 1315027777 920107 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1315027790 11379 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting. I would not know how to do that. < 1315027883 676652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the algorithm for using minimum storage space writing a series of natural numbers to a file, each one having a maximum, but that the maximums are not known ahead of time? < 1315027931 423760 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow imaplib is pretty low-level. < 1315027943 661400 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much just the protocol... < 1315027944 231331 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :each natural number has a maximum? well, look at that < 1315028017 873790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the first item is a number ranging from zero to eight. If it is five, then the next number ranges from zero to forty-two; but if the first number is two, then the nxt number instead ranges from zero to sixteen. < 1315028028 949451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found imaplib easy and high-level when I needed to wrangle IMAP from Python. < 1315028159 214534 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any such algorithm? < 1315028181 448316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY, AN ERROR < 1315028186 123193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1315028186 968710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a segfault < 1315028197 748386 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's certainly not difficult. < 1315028217 140297 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all of the methods are pretty much the protocol verbatim, with some exceptions. < 1315028226 48497 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :raises Exceptions instead of returning the bad responses. < 1315028272 598460 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything better than just using bignums for this purpose? < 1315028406 380602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe i should read some documentation instead of just watching swedish people make telephone calls <-- clearly the problem is that you don't know swedish. < 1315028528 294497 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :general electric 120V soft white. < 1315028543 702518 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315028575 523659 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315029023 257815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1315029032 937161 :lifthras1ir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315029417 21976 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORing a lot of search criteria in IMAP looks somewhat painful < 1315029514 815518 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the documentation is kind of poor as well. It doesn't describe how the data is returned from search, nor does it describe whether or not an exception is raised on NO or BAD responses < 1315029617 691575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clEnqueueNDRangeKernel < 1315029619 97125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a function name < 1315029652 813112 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :find_element_by_id_name_or_class is a good one < 1315029753 140038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oecan i have the numbers one to eight thnaks < 1315029857 584589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oerjan is gone < 1315029860 693974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about you monqy < 1315029865 544134 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315029870 916704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers,,, < 1315029873 998389 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers < 1315029917 502736 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can IMAP search keys have parens? I'm wondering how or works. < 1315029925 412241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1315029926 727561 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR key1 OR key2 key3 < 1315029928 597678 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1315029935 268168 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR key1 (OR key2 key3) < 1315030089 770683 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes you use parens < 1315030125 227869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :parentheses with fixed prefix notation < 1315030126 683313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :smart < 1315030220 207018 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1315030364 449477 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code is so bad. < 1315030396 215964 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lists that are initialized < 1315030398 589495 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then never used again. < 1315030401 522796 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty lists. < 1315030403 714817 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sitting there. < 1315030429 515918 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just chill out and wait to be garbage collected. < 1315030440 612543 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typos? < 1315030449 79536 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. possibly unfinished code. < 1315030451 425692 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or forgotten code. < 1315030457 306142 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they may have forgotten to delete them or something. < 1315030563 424200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: numbers < 1315030564 101761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one to ten < 1315030564 605398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1315030566 181558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you too < 1315030568 284094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1315030569 464885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one to eight < 1315030570 829848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :will be fine < 1315030571 743188 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 < 1315030572 750786 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1315030582 497119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you friend < 1315030631 717375 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't you need 9? < 1315030666 366021 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^nr < 1315030671 477303 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!nr < 1315030694 776204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it works :DDDDD < 1315030699 918737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: -9 -99 -99 -999 -9999 -99999 -999999 -9 -9 < 1315030707 565053 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that it working < 1315030708 319894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now. NOW to try it with a HUGE array. < 1315030713 342161 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what it's supposed to do < 1315030757 226674 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1315030823 577774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315031162 865060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg monqy it works im < 1315031165 367906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpuising < 1315031216 637167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: its so fast ;___; < 1315031234 59003 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :// CLEANUP Recursion and stuff < 1315031291 124559 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;___; < 1315031292 644430 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :string[] data = expression.Split("==".ToCharArray()); < 1315031298 117946 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's how you evaluate infix operators. < 1315031301 422908 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just split the string < 1315031311 164360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were under an NDA. < 1315031319 197456 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not. < 1315031328 738287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1315031402 822190 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was for something else. < 1315031951 234572 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1315032352 987862 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315032951 499900 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Haskell say a name is ambiguous even if only one of the choices is of the correct type? < 1315032999 644467 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Haskell doesn't care about the type < 1315033040 726338 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by that? < 1315033155 690702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, you have function with the same name but imported from different modules, it says ambiguous, both functions of same name they require different type of parameter, and you have specified the parameter which is one of those correct types. < 1315033180 663659 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the idea is that it doesn't do that because that would assume one is the correct type. < 1315033185 648550 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the programmer could always be wrong. < 1315033246 17811 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be more helpful to make sure the name is not ambiguous so it does not accidentally use the wrong function. < 1315033264 714137 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making debugging not quite so mysterious. < 1315033285 853816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an extension to make it not error for that? < 1315033289 964655 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1315033305 248993 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is actually not a GHC extension for everything. This is surprising I know. < 1315033428 108489 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose in some cases you can do it by making a class < 1315033437 854198 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can however, always just disambiguate your function names, either by qualifying the Module or defining two different names in your module. < 1315033449 547325 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I know you can do that too. < 1315033598 718405 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :practically speaking, the compiler should a) try to compile your program accurately and have it run as fast as possible, b) aid the programmer in debugging their programming. < 1315033636 422206 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess requiring qualified names when names overlap is helping with part b. < 1315033743 936227 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be able to turn off part (b) in cases where it is unable to do part (b) < 1315033769 480333 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the same should apply to part (a) in some cases, maybe. < 1315033791 907340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is doing part (b), you're just not listening < 1315033795 399435 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc -fignore-errors -fcompile-approximately < 1315033812 54527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and asking us how to shut it up < 1315033827 549394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your program is wrong, fix it < 1315033861 531849 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh, imap.uid("FETCH", uid, "BODY") should just give me the body text of the email right? < 1315033872 797205 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am having a hard time understanding the RFC :P < 1315033875 834545 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a dense text. < 1315033881 294638 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should only turn on part (a) and (b) if such things are possible to do, and turn them off otherwise (possibly displaying warnings if necessary, or errors if it is unable to do what you typed at all) < 1315033908 398960 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, I've defined a convention for this discussion. < 1315033924 993647 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, unable to do it properly, at least.) < 1315033933 232033 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is officially a part a and part b now. What have I done. < 1315033970 295154 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think you misunderstand me < 1315034001 779726 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :requiring overlapping names to be qualifies is aiding you in debugging, because even if only one of the names matches the types in that context < 1315034005 204643 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be the WRONG function < 1315034018 944007 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is in effect completely negating the point of having static typing. < 1315034074 120799 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is still the wrong function then it should be error. Or, if the name "a" is ambiguous and you type "b = a" without a type signature, then that is also ambiguous and is error. < 1315034096 359804 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether or not it's the wrong function is not something the compiler knows. < 1315034102 628 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION proceeds to add psychic abilities to Haskell < 1315034109 121383 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the function could have the right type and still be the wrong function, because the context is wrong. < 1315034116 707991 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you won't receive any indication that there is an error in your program < 1315034121 698166 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will get a logic error in that situation. < 1315034123 231129 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next step: Making it so the programmer only has to type one line: < 1315034124 778375 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to go compiler. < 1315034125 689082 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DWIM < 1315034125 849269 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Why? It should know, if there is only one function of the correct type and only one possible type in that context. < 1315034151 750342 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do The Opposite Of What I Mean < 1315034159 739118 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the context may be the wrong one and match the wrong function. < 1315034160 907047 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches the compiler explode < 1315034165 149275 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo, logic error. < 1315034171 198280 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything types because you have ambiguous names. < 1315034180 750286 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in the non-ambiguous situation you would get a type error. < 1315034233 631820 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: GHC is trying to help you make your program accurate. you should be glad. < 1315034257 294054 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, for example, if "a" is ambiguous because one module it is Int, one module it is String, then you have "b = a; c :: Int; c = a; d :: Int; d = a;" and you have no other module with "a" then definition of "b" is error but "c" and "d" should not be ambiguous because there is only one possible match. < 1315034267 131789 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I understand completely what you are saying < 1315034270 811642 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not need to explain again. < 1315034279 651797 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the premise and understand that it is possible. < 1315034290 950864 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the one possible match is the wrong match from what the programmer means? < 1315034300 199257 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. < 1315034324 683375 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler cannot determine the "right" function from an ambiguous set of functions because that is assuming that your code is already correct. < 1315034339 793607 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "right" as in "types correctly" < 1315034350 431720 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"right as in "this is what I wanted the program to do at runtime" < 1315034355 345260 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"right" < 1315034363 46524 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then the programmer made a mistake by specifying the wrong type. < 1315034385 164815 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and won't know until he runs the program. might as well use Python or Perl. < 1315034400 54674 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CakeProphet is saying that the entire point of type checking is to help prevent the programmer from making mistakes as much as possible. < 1315034428 563499 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always specify the type when defining a function. < 1315034522 270580 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really the problem though. < 1315034537 197754 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that your context has a mistake, a bug if you will < 1315034546 400269 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then GHC matches the wrong function < 1315034596 333724 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functions, whether explicitly typed or not, are in the wrong place, but GHC just goes ahead and matches a function from a list of ambiguous functions and everything types correctly < 1315034610 148972 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the program is wrong and the situation can be avoided if the names were non-ambiguous < 1315034638 261186 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may not have just two ambiguous choices. < 1315034642 35961 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle fromList < 1315034642 486743 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.HashTable fromList :: Eq key => (key -> Int32) -> [(key, val)] -> IO (HashTable key val) < 1315034642 646795 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap fromList :: [(Key, a)] -> IntMap a < 1315034642 646971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntSet fromList :: [Int] -> IntSet < 1315034646 368586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you guys beating your heads against a brick wall < 1315034648 764775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of curiosity < 1315034649 456813 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have 3, 4, 5, ... etc < 1315034652 900150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1315034659 81102 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: masochism < 1315034707 964000 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers who enjoy programming obviously also enjoy pain. < 1315034787 481444 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing i hate programming 8) < 1315034798 650550 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is more than one choice of the correct type then it should still be error, though. < 1315034805 363057 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes obviously. < 1315034819 984162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The programming language used to write computation kernels is based on C99 with some limitations and additions. It omits the use of function pointers, recursion, bit fields, variable-length arrays, and standard C99 header files." < 1315034845 206230 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1315034895 165554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: even though the scenario I described isn't necessarily going to happen or even be likely to happen, it can still happen and really you are just better off avoiding it. < 1315034905 842140 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so add a M. to the front of your names and be happy. < 1315034926 33207 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or write your extension and be happy < 1315034927 620762 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter. < 1315034945 113605 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, in some cases, I can write a class. < 1315035091 680668 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A class might not work in all cases, but it should work in many cases where such things is useful to have. < 1315035108 516017 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :add enough parameters and it will work most likely. < 1315035318 689379 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :class FromListable t a | t -> a where fromList :: [a] -> t < 1315035354 450878 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if the fundep is necessary. I don't really understand when fundeps are needed. < 1315035356 75279 :ive!~nn@189.179.239.6 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1315035410 269332 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke PRIVMSG #esoteric :when things would be ambiguous otherwise < 1315035644 368489 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFCs are kind of fun to read actually. < 1315035710 523438 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when I first started reading about telnet when I started working on my first MUD. < 1315035725 317218 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's when I first understood the idea of an interface in programming. < 1315035753 593213 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315035828 206831 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet is neat because it's basically an interface interface. < 1315035852 424766 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please support this feature" "Okay I will support this feature" < 1315035882 290843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet is horrific. < 1315035892 617821 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, also that. < 1315035903 612665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how DES works < 1315035911 758972 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT IT IS MY FIRST PROTOCOL. MY FIRST PROTOCOL-LOVE. < 1315035976 780873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think I'll wait for ais < 1315036126 918992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think telnet is not too bad. It is good. Almost everything is optional, anyways. If you do not need telnet commands, you can use raw terminal connection; but usually you would use telnet commands to ensure terminal compatibility. < 1315036183 393966 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so are attachments part of the DATA message in SMTP? < 1315036185 424408 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is so confused. < 1315036196 366510 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1315036216 239647 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes; the entire message and everything with it (attachment, etc) are all sent using DATA. The only thing isn't is recipient and sender address. < 1315036249 407490 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so if I only want the text what is that? < 1315036298 675868 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, found it. BODY[TEXT] < 1315036306 676822 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL SO EASY < 1315036379 367415 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I am learning things from all of this. < 1315036412 224676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here have experience with OpenCL? :P < 1315036435 594554 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's happening, elliott. < 1315036442 447991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;____; < 1315036444 848843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CUDA? < 1315036452 828862 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there is totally an #opencl though < 1315036457 742076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scary < 1315036485 699227 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is a crucial tool for programming < 1315036491 549345 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is your second option when Google fails you. < 1315036832 643279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes http://vandreev.wordpress.com/2007/06/18/feistel-ciphers-and-des-in-haskell/ to self < 1315036957 85182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : does anyone here have experience with OpenCL? :P <-- a tiny bit. I installed the SDK for using it with AMD cards. And I read the docs. < 1315036974 376029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't got around to using it yet < 1315036977 64940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: good. aid me. aid me. < 1315036981 419815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which docs btw < 1315036983 716263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience is < 1315036984 167919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I couldn't think of a useful project < 1315036989 406137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the spec iirc < 1315036994 964680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- the khronos reference is really deep hierarchy-wise and basically unordered so is useless < 1315037004 340245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- the spec is way too detailed and low-level and asdflghj' < 1315037017 420207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of the nvidia SDK examples are useful < 1315037019 423354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCEPT < 1315037028 536466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all use non-free-licensed helper functions that you get to replace < 1315037032 457140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whatever it was, it was a bit like the C99 spec in how it was written < 1315037035 239154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful reference docs < 1315037042 678209 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a tutorial by any measure < 1315037065 728524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have the basics down and it's about two hundred lines of C < 1315037079 125500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I basically only have one real question left, an architectural one :/ < 1315037093 657590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1315037125 488570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway this might be useful: http://developer.amd.com/zones/openclzone/pages/default.aspx (perhaps) < 1315037200 200024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what I'm writing is a DES cracker, for the hell of it. so, I know each thread is basically going to repeatedly DES on "the next input", check if it's right, and if it's not, continue. but if it _is_ right, I want to know how I should handle the output. (the way I'm cracking means that there can be _multiple_ successful crackings.) I could simply have a fixed-size output buffer and then stop when it's full or the iterations grow too many, < 1315037200 423427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then collect it all on the CPU thread, output the successful crackings, and repeat < 1315037202 821710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ... ehhh < 1315037217 616253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like I want an instruction "STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING, WAKE UP THE CPU THREAD, AND GIVE IT THIS DATA" :P < 1315037269 489819 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, sorry, I don't know best way to notify the CPU-run program from a GPU thread < 1315037281 629606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there must be a way though < 1315037307 512532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you can't, without massive overhead; the poclbm bitcoin cracker -- which yes, ha ha, libertarians, but it's a program of a very similar structure, so -- seems to take that output buffer solution < 1315037319 424997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, eurgh. :/ < 1315037381 165095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I ought to figure out how to actually implement DES. especially on an architecture this unconventional. < 1315037384 296822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it was made by engineers, did you expect a beautiful solution? XD < 1315037409 173367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect something focused on performance at all costs; this doesn't seem performant, but then I have no intuition as to how GPUs work < 1315037409 333354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315037417 766081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1315037428 745241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm really likely to just write a high-level Haskell API using OpenCL after this and then never write an OpenCL C program again < 1315037434 824270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And speak of the devil, here's ais523 < 1315037446 218563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :would he know about GPU programming? < 1315037468 534157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout < 1315037474 626632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least fifty tl;drs worth about it. < 1315037524 564409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, interesting language < 1315037543 567009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: were you speaking of me? < 1315037559 227050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yep, saying I'd wait for you before I continued writing my GPGPU program < 1315037563 333211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To ask a question < 1315037632 783961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: what I'm writing is a DES cracker, for the hell of it. so, I know each thread is basically going to repeatedly DES on "the next input", check if it's right, and if it's not, continue. but if it _is_ right, I want to know how I should handle the output. (the way I'm cracking means that there can be _multiple_ successful crackings.) I could simply have a fixed-size output buffer and then stop when it's full or the iterations grow < 1315037632 952217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many, < 1315037633 112183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and then collect it all on the CPU thread, output the successful crackings, and repeat < 1315037633 112358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : but ... ehhh < 1315037634 671880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it feels like I want an instruction "STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING, WAKE UP THE CPU THREAD, AND GIVE IT THIS DATA" :P < 1315037637 767692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And there it is < 1315037640 184201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could do GPGPU calculations with shaders too. I think GPU support of hugin's panorama stitcher nona is done by shaders rather than OpenCL. Not sure why. < 1315037653 98294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because OpenCL/CUDA are much newer than shaders. < 1315037656 610900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315037663 546990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: each thread should have a block of memory it writes to < 1315037684 387991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then periodically, you stop all the threads temporarily to do an en-masse transfer of that memory to somewhere the CPU can read < 1315037696 187528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, so what I said then < 1315037704 687397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, you need a really really recent graphics card (as in, last few months) to be able to read the memory before the computation's finished altogether < 1315037709 29604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's gross in tons of ways though :/ < 1315037710 504709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why no way to send a signal back to the CPU? < 1315037714 626803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might want to just repeatedly invoke the computation < 1315037723 994060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a subset of the search space < 1315037725 955383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, that's what I said < 1315037732 256408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It makes some things a lot less fun though < 1315037740 273461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't offer a semi-realtime count of cracking speed for instance :P < 1315037746 178730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because of massive threading, basically < 1315037750 746450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1315037808 292996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So here's another question: I was thinking each thread would basically get its own chunk of the keyspace, and then try repeatedly to fill out its output buffer, trying new keys each time. But looking at several SDK examples, I have a feeling that it'd be better to make it be one thread : one attempted key, and just have millions of them, letting the GPU scheduler do the equivalent of my loop. < 1315037815 276045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a good way to go about things? < 1315037845 99846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the number of threads you can have the GPU scheduler deal with is relatively large, but finite < 1315037863 103345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yep, but my computational workload is also finite, because of the above architecture < 1315037864 178384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting the scheduler to do as much scheduling as possible is generally more efficient because it can do tricks like pipeline memory accesses < 1315037873 405583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's finite as in about a million or so, maybe a bit less < 1315037877 83259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have a feeling that might be too small < 1315037884 964977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; so ten times the threads > a loop... < 1315037887 366120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: More than a million < 1315037898 641351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This SDK example uses 1277944 < 1315037908 527024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1315037917 83359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nearest multiple of two hundred and fifty-six to that < 1315037918 437323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever < 1315037942 962512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess I should just max out the number of threads the GPU can deal with, and then have them repeat their workload until my desired computation workload is filled? < 1315037947 679025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, no advantage to having _less_ threads < 1315038070 856508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And there's no way to tell the GPU "kill every thread", right, just "kill this thread" (return)? < 1315038092 553587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't kill a thread at all, threads exit when they reach the end of the code they have < 1315038101 747284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "return" in a __kernel kills a thread :) < 1315038111 536153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :effectively, yes < 1315038122 795771 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1315038124 446656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs are so strange. < 1315038136 785661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically just grounding my entire thinking in terms of array languages like J. < 1315038158 934834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus the sort of nice Haskell array-handling pipelines that end up being fused away because they're just compositions. < 1315038165 394734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ground my thinking in GPUs < 1315038178 700215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a paradigm of their own, but not one that's impossible to learn < 1315038186 587388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's the best way to do it, but unfortunately I don't know how GPUs work, other than being vector CPUs with shitloads of cores < 1315038194 992966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have to work with bad metaphors until it clicks < 1315038252 930426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so TODO: Learn how to actually code DES, figure out how to divide the keyspace nicely, find a nice compute workload for a single "run" < 1315038309 254826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I take it GPUs are lousy at matching regular expressions? < 1315038331 866866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on how you interpret them < 1315038349 108107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a DFA that was small enough to fit into block memory might work well < 1315038357 217976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the input string is exactly ten characters < 1315038372 846163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. no pipeline stalls in doing a jump-table-equivalent) < 1315038380 809667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hell, I could compile it down to 2560 bytes of lookup table < 1315038388 872439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's too big to be local data though, right? < 1315038448 310623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, no, of course a lookup table doesn't work < 1315038451 571745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a complete idiot < 1315038471 131220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, hmm; I could do that simple "none of the ten characters are _definitely_ invalid" check, add it to the output, and have the CPU filter those out < 1315038490 542916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it might be better just to do it all on the GPU < 1315038505 595781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess most regexps trying to match only ten characters will fit into block memory :) < 1315038514 644625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if that's not good enough you can always grep the rest < 1315038524 950710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way to find out exactly how much block memory my GPU does, btw? < 1315038528 676384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suggest only doing simple checks on the GPU < 1315038534 735420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there should be some API function to query that < 1315038548 673701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know CUDA has one, although I've forgotten what it's called < 1315038558 914092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, a simple regexp is pretty simple, but I don't know what counts as simple for GPUs. < 1315038569 936358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the amount of block memory /per block/ is obviously what you're interested in; it's also called shared memory sometimes) < 1315038579 161976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you normally get a few kilobytes of it per block < 1315038594 60385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2560 plus a bit, maybe? < 1315038611 903352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My GPU is not all that good; it's integrated, after all. < 1315038628 537012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, if 2560 isn't good enough, I could always do a kind of bloom filter thing < 1315038630 574281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even just modulo < 1315038640 728585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BTW, is CUDA's C API this insanely verbose??? < 1315038648 704018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unbelievable! < 1315038667 952724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm used to Java, so it didn't look /that/ out of place < 1315038672 931279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also my program keeps failing just because I only have like a gig of memory free. :/ < 1315038680 88551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1315038687 256531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to make it a bit more memory-efficient < 1315038687 490509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it only deals with about a hundred megs of data on both CPU and GPU side??? < 1315038696 437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs definitely don't have a gig of memory to spare < 1315038698 16115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's perfectly memory-efficient, it's just a trivial test program I wrote < 1315038709 951728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well yeah, but it complained about lack of host memory before < 1315038717 189814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess my GPU is probably just using more than half its RAM though :) < 1315038723 916236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have two hundred and fifty megabytes of it, which is ugh < 1315038732 116439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully DES cracking is a rather constant space thing < 1315038736 439505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't count towards GPU ram, does it? < 1315038739 70129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're like registers < 1315038764 171500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have thread memory, block memory, and global memory, they're all separate memory spaces < 1315038771 605312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :global memory is the only sort of memory you can have pointers into < 1315038778 346311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can still index arrays in thread or block memory < 1315038787 472356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you can fake pointers like that if you really want to < 1315038791 246333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the two-five-six figure; combined, or global? < 1315038858 297566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds plausible for the amount of block memory in a block < 1315038871 32566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the names the API uses are often confusing, you often have to figure out what they are just from their sizes < 1315038891 288751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm not quoting the API, I'm quoting what my GPU claims to the rest of the computer < 1315038923 515675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's two-five-six megabytes, btw < 1315038947 782293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, /megabytes/? probably global memory, then < 1315038957 424921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1315038958 152605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else would be that big < 1315038963 343406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed as much < 1315038987 553522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But, umm, you said I had a few kilobytes per thread < 1315038998 359746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :global memory has nothing to do with shared memory < 1315039003 538991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that swapped out into global memory or something? Because I don't have two gigs of RAM on my GPU < 1315039007 631196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shared memory is shared by a block of threads, they all read/write into it < 1315039010 5462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Going by a million threads) < 1315039012 611680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, but only finitely many threads run at once < 1315039023 572581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, so where does it go when they're not running :P < 1315039040 224693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, it'll switch between around 100 threads until they're all finished, then do another block of 100 or so, etc < 1315039047 626343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't go anywhere because the threads have already exited < 1315039048 612015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1315039061 976426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't assume all the threads as a whole are immune to starvation, they almost certainly won't be < 1315039068 226575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starvation? < 1315039071 377669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :threads /within a block/, you can assume are immune to starvation and all that < 1315039078 876834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I actually have to account for threads just losing their ram < 1315039079 164374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the chance that a thread won't run at all until it's the last thread remaining < 1315039087 652296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1315039092 773967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would that matter, this is embarrassingly parallel < 1315039097 221849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't need to talk at all :P < 1315039098 727490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, in this case < 1315039105 598132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it explains where the RAM Goes < 1315039107 95963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*goes < 1315039115 670636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, with my output array, I want one index per thread, right? Because otherwise they might just step on each other's toes < 1315039126 238351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs a group of threads until they've all finished and so don't need any more RAM, then the next group, then the next, etc < 1315039131 608452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's easier to have to allocate like two hundred megs on the host than to communicate between threads to resolve that < 1315039139 441764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, one index per thread is an incredibly common trick on a GPU < 1315039152 52920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 256 MB GDDR? < 1315039155 891266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot < 1315039172 595320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GPU memory < 1315039174 153500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, that might not quite work, since the successful output is like a short string < 1315039175 448664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315039182 783589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :256MB is a little low even for that, but that memory doesn't really matter < 1315039186 668237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is different from video ram iirc? < 1315039188 872059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eight (seven-bit) characters < 1315039202 394217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's eight times a million threads, say < 1315039203 838129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it has nothing to do with video RAM < 1315039205 391850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's just eight megabytes < 1315039213 760787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't I have an intuition for this kind of thing? < 1315039220 880111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is video ram then? < 1315039225 743387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in graphics programming, a hardware buffer is in GPU memory, a software buffer is in video RAM < 1315039234 88521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, maybe not, actually < 1315039237 571249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1315039238 935692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds wrong < 1315039239 634131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hardware buffer might be in GPU memory or video RAM < 1315039245 652510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315039246 346719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a software buffer is just in general-purpose RAM < 1315039262 566540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't suppose there's like a common source of cryptographic algorithms for GPUs < 1315039267 634402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my GPU has 1 GB RAM of whatever is on the PCIE-card < 1315039268 965007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DES instructions in the hardware? No? < 1315039271 186584 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1315039274 319511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might actually have to learn something. < 1315039274 691305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :GDDR5 iirc < 1315039282 393787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if video RAM was memory-mapped into GPU global memory, actually; I don't know how the CPU and GPU actually communicate < 1315039327 37293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suspect /proc/mtrr could tell you something about that. If you just knew which section was video ram < 1315039337 252468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I think at least some of it is mapped into CPU address space < 1315039345 544943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure I read that somewhere < 1315039354 390122 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all devices should communicate via telnet protocol < 1315039369 502540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat /proc/mtrr < 1315039369 662764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg00: base=0x000000000 ( 0MB), size=16384MB, count=1: write-back < 1315039369 662950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg01: base=0x400000000 (16384MB), size= 1024MB, count=1: write-back < 1315039369 663064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg03: base=0x0e0000000 ( 3584MB), size= 512MB, count=1: uncachable < 1315039369 663165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg04: base=0x42f800000 (17144MB), size= 8MB, count=1: uncachable < 1315039370 524157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg05: base=0x430000000 (17152MB), size= 256MB, count=1: uncachable < 1315039376 543833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't really make any sense of that < 1315039482 950722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what /proc/mtrr is for < 1315039568 165006 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You might want to fix that, I had terrible random performance problems when my MTRR setup was messed up < 1315039577 477263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that broken < 1315039653 854605 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says some things are both uncachable and write-back < 1315039711 198228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't < 1315039726 248996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I'm seriously misinterpreting that < 1315039795 106080 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :[3584,4096] specifically < 1315039832 928746 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the other uncachable areas too, actually < 1315039847 834289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are they write-back < 1315039857 221794 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg00: base=0x000000000 ( 0MB), size=16384MB, count=1: write-back < 1315039868 974551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not uncachable, the line uncachable isn't there < 1315039883 719828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hm < 1315039884 395865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1315039886 513384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bases < 1315039941 787085 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's supposed to work like that, dunno < 1315039952 422653 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is I had major issues while I had overlap < 1315040036 995116 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia at least says that overlap is fine so I guess that's fine < 1315040256 856753 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315040260 892334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think there is an order of precedence. < 1315040269 679291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least from what I remember < 1315040294 7473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and performance is fine. So are you suggesting I could get even better performance by messing with them? < 1315040303 752253 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not < 1315040306 412515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know a public domain reference implementation of DES; I am way too tired for this reading shit right now < 1315040327 555127 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought it might be a problem since it was a really bad problem for me < 1315040341 553208 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it appears it shouldn't be a problem in general < 1315040490 622531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can anyone give me a working c program for DES algorithm(64/56 bit key).... < 1315040490 822422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write the program but cant. < 1315040490 989127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got many programs from google but no one is running. < 1315040491 152563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please send me the program............." < 1315040494 164429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then: "dont u guys have any interest in DES..........." < 1315040503 613730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afraid not, dear friend; none of this cruel internet has any interest in DES < 1315040530 292521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: function calls are inlined on a GPU, right? < 1315040551 372717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, they don't have much of a call stack to speak of < 1315040570 368939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right; just checking that I'm not losing anything by using functions instead of macros here < 1315040594 675134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's reasonably common to unroll loops, too (GPU programming languages tend to have pragmas for that nowadays; hand-unrolling nearly always beats compiler-unrolling because the compilers are bad at guessing how many iterations to unroll) < 1315040691 850032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DES is gross, why can't these encryption algorithms be pretty < 1315041146 6285 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :AES is reasonably pretty < 1315041151 357107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I shouldn't be helping you make a password cracker < 1315041157 443881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it is for practice < 1315041177 879330 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What even uses DES anymore < 1315041179 641503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things are probably illegal nowadays < 1315041180 924334 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd be surprised I bet) < 1315041182 873951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, a pending law < 1315041306 605112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not cracking passwords < 1315041308 985906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's alright < 1315041335 779695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, IIRC there's a new law outlawing programs which have an obvious illegal purpose < 1315041340 224748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think that includes password crackers < 1315041345 748051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's quite a stupid one, really...) < 1315041345 927172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a password cracker < 1315041356 946518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's reversing crypt(3), right? < 1315041371 1964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite. < 1315041382 130807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it doing, then? < 1315041385 145117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's processing crypt() output and checking it for certain conditions. < 1315041393 19352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certain conditions that would be useless for cracking a pre-given hash. < 1315041395 380021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing you could use to crack DES passwords using this program would be to rip out the crypt() implementation and write your own cracker. < 1315041402 290168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other things that include a crypt implementation: libc. < 1315041407 620312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1315041418 871833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is the intended purpose? or is that secret? < 1315041425 298531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, what do you plan to use it for?) < 1315041447 753120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't plan to use it at all once it works, but that would be telling. :p It's not any big secret or anything, it's just a silly little program. < 1315041456 991559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I just did sudo cat /etc/shadow, it seems that the only loginnable account on this computer (mine) is using a salt starting $6$, so definitely not DES-based < 1315041464 81238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recognise that particular algo at all, in fact < 1315041478 946396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, the only way you could use this to track passwords would be... to enlarge a bunch of the arrays, fill out the GPU-check tables in a really weird manner, remove the CPU checks... yeah, it'd basically be equivalent to rewriting everything but crypt(). < 1315041501 343334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've never heard of $six$ < 1315041531 181794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SHA2 < 1315041565 811156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you should be happy about that < 1315041651 877007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does SHA2 describe a particular hash algo? I thought it was a family < 1315041684 495807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it's one of the SHA2s, but all of them are pretty good :P < 1315041735 463890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1315042001 793449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote help me i am so alone :( new computer good enough to simulate real parents < 1315042006 169065 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :637) help me i am so alone :( new computer good enough to simulate real parents < 1315042026 538852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you think about the Wikileaks/Guardian situation? < 1315042043 587165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I forgot to pay attention; brief summary? < 1315042052 899858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :summary: Wikileaks send an unredacted version of the diplomatic cables to a Guardian journalist via encrypted archive < 1315042068 26474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :telling them the password in a relatively secure manner (at least, it wasn't intercepted) < 1315042074 547501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The only thing I remembered reading was a funny quote about someone failing to use GPG and Assange helping them) < 1315042078 65937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the encrypted archive itself leaks when it's accidentally mirrored < 1315042090 510293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the password leaks when the journalist uses it as a title for a book chapter < 1315042094 1263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the entire information is out there now < 1315042096 211807 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1315042099 318909 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow! < 1315042102 953078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's the same person, as it happens < 1315042103 139027 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking journalists < 1315042117 34752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, that _can't_ have been unintentional < 1315042134 127394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikileaks has since deliberately published an unencrypted version of the same archive on the basis that the information's out there, and Australia responded with an arrest warrant < 1315042145 627212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, were the details of that "insurance" file Wikileaks released ages ago ever revealed? < 1315042157 216646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was with another big leak, just an encrypted blob that people torrented about on the assumption that it /must/ be something important < 1315042158 58445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it seems that the journalist wasn't too tech-savvy and thought that the password had expired < 1315042174 821304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the insurance file still hasn't been decrypted; it doesn't have the same password, people have checked that < 1315042193 312301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on the one hand, I can believe the incompetence part; on the other hand, how stupid do you have to be to take a "risk" like that? < 1315042215 594128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I can excuse a journalist for not realising that encrypted archives don't have expiring passwords < 1315042222 300670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's only obvious if you understand the tech < 1315042233 342831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but I'd call naming a chapter after an expired password pretty irresponsible, too < 1315042236 12921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Wikileaks should possibly have noticed that, and used some other method of communication, or at least a warning < 1315042265 838319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the sort of thing I'd expect a journalist to do, it's "good journalism" in the sense that it draws attention and makes for a good story < 1315042278 232591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm not sure what my opinions on it are, other than that it's amusing < 1315042313 977321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt the availability of the unredacted files will cause much harm; there was an awful lot of hyperbole about it when the cables were first released, but I don't recall anything ever actually happening so it sounds like FUD To me < 1315042316 237364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/To/to/ < 1315042384 942929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best advice I've seen on slashdot is to make passwords long, random, and boring, so that they don't make for interesting book titles < 1315042392 287005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahaha < 1315042420 41786 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaa < 1315042435 207967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new book from a Wikileaks insider and Guardian journalist: 95UaipciJ6gIBpJvNYuSu < 1315042443 872992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I actually got that from /dev/urandom for authenticity) < 1315042459 788968 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that base 58 or base 64 < 1315042485 234310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither < 1315042488 424355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who uses base 58? < 1315042489 393020 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it amusing that the original unix crypt was based on the enigma machine < 1315042492 170737 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, wow, it was that old < 1315042498 315077 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: youtube I think uses it < 1315042499 548648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the crypt function < 1315042501 222591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the crypt tool < 1315042501 477710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't 62 make more sense? < 1315042504 605435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has never existed ever < 1315042506 586363 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow IMAP sequence points are a terrible idea. < 1315042511 370355 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should pretty much always use UID < 1315042513 455242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've used perl for it on occasion < 1315042532 36329 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 58 because you take out o O 0 i I l < 1315042532 447458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a one-liner there, it has crypt(3) as a builtin function for reasons I don't fully understand < 1315042538 61679 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they look like each other depending on the typography < 1315042541 84730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1315042544 422567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the crypt tool is unrelated. < 1315042552 742303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1315042568 567077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a ridiculously insecure text encryption that was replaced with a caesar cypher in many unixes because of export laws < 1315042577 222867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically linux has never had it ever because it's bloody useless < 1315042581 84046 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL caesar cypher < 1315042583 6369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and broken in the forties, by definition < 1315042588 952708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or earlier, if a caesar cypher < 1315042593 387581 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::cryptography export laws: < 1315042601 324939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good emoticon < 1315042603 565332 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :caesar cyphers were broken around the time of jesus < 1315042604 403139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it look like < 1315042610 651854 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pile of flaming shit < 1315042611 283883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be really cool to be alive in the times when the caesar cypher was actually being used to send war-critical messages < 1315042615 465587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1315042618 693328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SHIT GUYS < 1315042624 827731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURNS OUT I BROKE THE INTERCEPTED MESSAGE IN FIVE MINUTES < 1315042636 331447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[rolls in money, accolades] < 1315042654 264983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315042664 558599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back then, it wasn't common knowledge that codes were crackable at all < 1315042664 876720 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should have used a one time pad < 1315042669 30545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd first have to have thought of it < 1315042685 276303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: for a hundreds-of-megabytes document? pretty much the only way to do that would be to allow it to be downloaded somehow < 1315042685 436425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, when everyone is /that/ stupid... < 1315042689 77487 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know (or can figure out) that it is a caesar cipher, it would be very easy to decode by trying a few keys, there is not much to try and you do not have to decode the entire message to know that it is wrong < 1315042692 352316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah, yeah, I know, product of our society) < 1315042693 587821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it's too likely that both the OTP and the original will be intercepted < 1315042708 197197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hundreds of megabytes in caesar's time :ok: < 1315042712 154266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::youmissedthecontext: < 1315042718 31795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::ais523madeaconversationalerror: < 1315042723 80384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I interpreted a different context to the one you did < 1315042723 732466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::noncesmilies: < 1315042733 480328 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's right to miss the context, it was ambiguous < 1315042734 803557 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed Patashu was talking about the Guardian/Wikileaks situation not the military situation < 1315042738 505528 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::hi: < 1315042741 838575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::smileydepictingrespondingtoallmessagesintermsofsmilies: < 1315042744 548857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact, still think that was the context, unless told otherwise < 1315042746 756468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::thatexceptcubist: < 1315042757 777773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::caesarmakingathumbsup: < 1315042765 270102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::#esoteric: < 1315042769 229226 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant think of anyway to use :help: :help: < 1315042777 148541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you can < 1315042780 358611 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the joke < 1315042784 14226 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric ::backtowork < 1315042788 370211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1315042789 560967 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1315042792 357850 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::thats the joke: < 1315042800 725319 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::how could i make such a stupid mistake: < 1315042811 188999 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::ever: < 1315042825 457583 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why are we using posix-style named character classes? < 1315042832 437951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::also, when i said "i mean" i meant :i mean:: < 1315042840 436455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely the smiley should be :hlep:? < 1315042841 15482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::im going to have to draw all of these: < 1315042846 502219 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :::hlep < 1315042847 85737 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I'm pretty sure that's not posix compliant. < 1315042860 399684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices how difficult it is to make an intentional typo once your fingers are used to typing words at a time rather than letters at a time < 1315042870 148292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::smiley depicting infinite tower of smilies; inside, the image of death itself: < 1315042883 835652 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :story of my life, ais523 < 1315042902 366046 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help what is the : < 1315042907 844740 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::context: < 1315042909 366578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::haha: < 1315042911 238341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::you shall never know: < 1315042918 736252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: normally used to delimit smileys on webforums < 1315042919 687556 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :read context still doesn't make sense. < 1315042921 895423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::iiam: oh wait that one's real < 1315042925 843582 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1315042928 420474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. BlogNomic which uses :FOR: for a FOR-vote smiley < 1315042936 675667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's iiam right?) < 1315042939 657574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things tend to accumulate stupidly large amounts of smileys < 1315042942 840616 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :are nomics interesting to play? < 1315042948 611589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no idea, I don't know of that one < 1315042955 117579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "it is a mystery" ghost < 1315042955 516041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: they can be; normally they are sometimes and aren't sometimes < 1315042959 381349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.itisamystery.com/itisamystery.gif < 1315042975 955041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does that website exist just to serve one image? < 1315042977 78845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: not right now, they aren't < 1315042992 242227 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.skype-emoticons.com/images/emoticon-00169-dance.gif http://www.skype-emoticons.com/images/emoticon-00119-puke.gif < 1315042992 580823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not :) < 1315043036 383941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Photo books on your Mac. Just add summer." good god apple, I would unsubscribe from your emails if they weren't so hilarious < 1315043050 434959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell makes an actual printed book with maps of their travels abroad < 1315043052 710928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in unrelated news, there are allegations going around of Apple impersonating police < 1315043055 180921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rich is the average apple customer < 1315043058 956542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rich does apple think the average apple customer is < 1315043064 260975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are a huge number of fishy things about the story < 1315043076 453115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so most people involved are smelling a rat even if they're not sure what color the rat is < 1315043091 747925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever colour the rat is i will love and care for it all the same < 1315043102 932916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you normally use "color"? < 1315043156 960687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about 50/50 on that word < 1315043170 947871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and strangely, it doesn't seem to have much correlation with whether I'm programming < 1315043182 27720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it goes up to 100% for "color" when programming if I actually think about the spelling < 1315043184 158931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate using apis that use different spelling conventions to m < 1315043184 782702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1315043185 987999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise, "colour" when not < 1315043188 125256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1315043190 178218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1315043193 992224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to name my variable < 1315043195 659627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fooColour < 1315043195 986957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use MySql, then, it has both ANALYSE and ANALYZE! < 1315043197 15826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the type is < 1315043197 861574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Color < 1315043198 800370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315043199 820008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1315043200 376255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crying < 1315043217 469692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, there's that language whose name escapes me where foo_bar, foobar and fooBar are all the same identifier < 1315043217 975471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Colour = Color -- witty comment here < 1315043220 700690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it just needs generalising... < 1315043232 685786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, how about we put a whole thesaurus in there? < 1315043234 206356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssssssssssss < 1315043258 273555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eso or non-eso? < 1315043266 855893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be more interesting if foobar was different from the other two < 1315043274 568958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: non-eso < 1315043278 266457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably. < 1315043284 694748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the language conceptually had multiword identifiers, and various ways to notate them in ASCII < 1315043314 79539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Algol 68, foo_bar is the same as foo bar (the underscore is an unkeywordiser, and neither foo nor bar are keywords) < 1315043317 786328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was case insensitive :P < 1315043329 824148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is a variable not a keyword < 1315043348 225005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.foo.bar would be a two-word keyword, which would then cause a syntax error as foo bar isn't a keyword) < 1315043390 58177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so the keyspace is fifty-six bits. < 1315043395 66856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to divide that up reasonably. < 1315043419 257172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, are you doing some iterated-DES sort of HashCash? < 1315043441 4413 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is hashcash < 1315043442 781261 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it like bitcoin < 1315043444 6491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope; that would be some hashcash < 1315043453 913415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: no, hashcash is something that just about everyone agrees is a pretty good idea < 1315043457 133165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least to my knowledg < 1315043457 461082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1315043462 135603 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is it < 1315043462 628556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similar in implementation, though < 1315043463 989226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash < 1315043474 654514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: not really; it's an anti-spam scheme that works by forcing an email sender to do some provable pointless calculations before sending < 1315043481 579343 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, cool < 1315043487 290099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so DES actually works on seven characters < 1315043488 310145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean < 1315043493 794658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that if you send one email, it's only going to tie up your CPU for two seconds or so and you won't care < 1315043496 126371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably make it work on eight characters with the ignored bit still there < 1315043502 646575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because char8 is a type that exists < 1315043503 587122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you send a million, you're going to need a giant server farm which is very expensive < 1315043511 635133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because the implementations probably assume that < 1315043526 907074 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems unfair against embedded systems < 1315043543 71480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded systems don't send email < 1315043555 167176 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't??? < 1315043568 802319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, and the salt is one hundred and twenty eight bits. < 1315043573 892411 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my microwave emails me when it's done < 1315043576 262548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :crypt() literally takes a salt larger than the password. < 1315043588 837955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I suspect it has a pretty decent processor, then < 1315043600 293257 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it doesn't really but it should) < 1315043604 502246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1315043612 758435 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microwaving over Ethernet < 1315043616 78118 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :WIll be the next big innovation < 1315043617 332072 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just you wait < 1315043648 729847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :email is a rather bad protocol for that < 1315043651 480147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMPP or something would be better < 1315043707 18323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315043708 412852 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the Message Send Protocol. < 1315043723 696160 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, hashcash is like bitcoin < 1315043729 959853 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :except everyone who wants to use it has to hash instead of just miners < 1315043731 716416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315043744 464625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, the nice thing about OpenCL (imo) is that you don't need any sort of SDK to use it < 1315043762 623260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to compile it somehow < 1315043772 926050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the header files are portable, few in number, and available from Khronos; and the only other thing you need is /usr/lib/libOpenCL.so, which ships with my graphics card drivers and I'm sure yours too < 1315043775 475212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, you don't :) < 1315043788 816841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is it embedded into C in some sort of crazy fashion? < 1315043798 510878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you compile the actual code at runtime < 1315043803 16465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is libOpenCL.so the compiler? < 1315043803 176399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with OpenCL API calls < 1315043808 686520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler and interface < 1315043811 308803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1315043816 923917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the compiler's API is standardised, so < 1315043825 654888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's something to precompile, but that probably involves writing your own API-using program to do it < 1315043838 199844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there's tools for it in the SDKs, I don't know, I'm fine with this portable stuff < 1315043904 915238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something I'm wondering about: suppose you use a POSIX-extended printf call to print just the second variable argument to printf < 1315043923 11394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in printf("%2$d\n", 4, 5); < 1315043944 991996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that actually work? I'm having trouble figuring out how it would figure out where the second arg was on the stack without knowing the type of the first < 1315043973 423976 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%2$d\n", 4, 5); < 1315043978 428135 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1315043978 844420 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1315043982 39148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1315043997 275245 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%2$d\n", 4.0, 5); < 1315043997 701588 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%2$d\n", (long double)4.2, 5); < 1315043998 406027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%2$d\n", 'c', 5); < 1315043999 267930 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2040730480 < 1315044000 318699 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1315044007 196925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: heh, I had the same idea as you < 1315044010 584185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%2$d\n", (long double)4.2, 5); < 1315044012 362410 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :16385 < 1315044015 92420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%2$d\n", (long double)4.2, 5); < 1315044016 963197 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :16385 < 1315044020 530349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: chars are widened to ints in a ... argument < 1315044021 271790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit's reliable, yo < 1315044027 600773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i realised that right a i sent it < 1315044027 934433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as < 1315044060 876584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : There may be no gaps in the numbers of arguments specified using '$'; for example, if arguments 1 and 3 are specified, argument 2 must also be specified somewhere in the format string. < 1315044066 476980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A 12-bit salt is used to perturb the encryption algorithm, so standard DES implementations can't be used to implement crypt()." < 1315044066 821991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315044084 464091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, the salt alters the /encryption algorithm/, rather than the /input/? < 1315044099 191415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoever invented crypt probably doesn't understand hashing < 1315044106 125157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, DES' block size is 64 bits < 1315044113 283487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean that a DES output is 64 bits, if you only have one block? < 1315044116 18781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so < 1315044144 730910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or they understand it well enough to know how to perturb DES without making it less secure < 1315044225 121903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, (assume CUDA since I guess it's comparable) how would I pass in, say, two kilobytes of data to a kernel function? < 1315044238 539613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: the data is constant for all threads but should be quick to access < 1315044279 798214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two possibilities; one is to place it in global memory and get each block of threads to copy it into shared memory as the first thing they do, and read it from there < 1315044289 601063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other is to place it in texture memory and hope it ends up in the texture cache < 1315044303 78194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first's more suitable for small amounts of data, the second for large amounts < 1315044304 783122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't I just pass a really large number of function arguments? :-) < 1315044308 484987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2K is somewhere in between < 1315044321 510584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's literally just ten tables of two-five-six bytes each. < 1315044325 958427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, booleans raelly. < 1315044327 412370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how function arguments are passed < 1315044330 425216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I figure bytes are quicker to index. < 1315044348 249805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess I have to base64 in the kernels too < 1315044348 945240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1315044352 139721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, hmm < 1315044354 654889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that copying blocks of global to shared memory is a reasonably fast operation; it accesses global memory more efficiently than any other way of accessing it < 1315044370 89894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I could just divide it into eight bytes and do it based on that < 1315044374 773822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that'd be really false-positivey < 1315044380 271012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically you get the threads to cooperate on the copy < 1315044390 788027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cooperation sonuds like communicatino :( < 1315044397 374554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an operation for that in Checkout < 1315044400 6701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's actually the opposite < 1315044411 283368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each thread does a fraction of the copy, in such a way that between them they do all the copy < 1315044419 443498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315044423 630542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds scary < 1315044432 183293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, but it's also standard < 1315044432 801957 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1315044438 552834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get used to that sort of thing after a while < 1315044457 561249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't _want_ to get used to it :-\ < 1315044458 212781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't really get a good feel for GPU programming unless you work on something a bit less embarrassingly parallel than your current problem < 1315044477 461685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1315044480 925205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as GPUs are designed for tasks that parallelize well but not perfectly (as that's what graphics programming is like) < 1315044481 725968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may be a good thing :P < 1315044507 402762 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad there are no (Free-software) Checkout implementations. < 1315044509 74090 :lifthras1ir!~lifthrasi@61.106.27.227 NICK :lifthrasiir < 1315044519 754741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are non-Free-software implementations? < 1315044520 467070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are no Checkout implementations at all < 1315044525 926923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1315044537 159975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad there are no Checkout implementations targeting badgers. < 1315044541 974855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written by horses. < 1315044561 548132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's general enough to run even on badgers, I'm not sure if I've done something right or wrong < 1315044565 667258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have half a mind to write a little library that compiles special Haskell code symbolically to OpenCL and executing that < 1315044567 670324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what license do horses typically use, btw? < 1315044580 792607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I /think/ you could reduce typical zip/map/associative fold code to something pretty direct < 1315044600 42190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :associative fold is very standard < 1315044607 892916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and map is so parallel it doesn't even count as a building block < 1315044611 495847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That kind of code tends to be idiomatic in Haskell anyway (i.e. a "pipeline" composition chain of functions with no conditionals), so I'm pretty sure it could produce good OpenCL code for good Haskell code < 1315044616 783649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It does in Haskell < 1315044629 496077 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell can't already compile to opencl? < 1315044637 825348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I really want to see Checkout running on a badger now, even though that sounds terrible and illegal < 1315044641 59784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: that would be insane < 1315044650 132640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a slideshow by NVidia somewhere where they did lots and lots of optimisations on an associative fold and watched it get faster and faster < 1315044651 218841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about what amounts to a symbolic EDSL < 1315044655 562187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1315044668 240922 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :an EDSL for running on badgers? < 1315044673 621703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. < 1315044684 416982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder what programming would be like if the (GP)GPU was invented before the CPU? < 1315044701 188173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason why it couldn't be the "main" processor, it'd just be bizarro-world from ours < 1315044712 866604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it probably wouldn't have operating systems < 1315044718 359624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not software operating systems, at least < 1315044721 692801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? CPUs didn't at first, either < 1315044724 166373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, they'd be built into the hardware < 1315044735 585257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then they grew the hardware support for OSes to be written < 1315044754 94914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, do I really have to iterate through a megabyte just to see if any of my kernels managed to produce a hit :-| < 1315044759 586509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(an array of bools, one per kernel) < 1315044763 87762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the CPU, that is < 1315044766 805108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the inclination would be "make the GPU better at scheduling" rather than "allow the GPU to have customizable scheduling" < 1315044780 237745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the CPU would be invented so that it could do OSy tasks < 1315044793 837304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, GPUs tend to be very bad at integers, and especially bitwise operations < 1315044799 21787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're designed for floating-point < 1315044808 721837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well this definitely isn't an fp operation < 1315044810 739986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can avoid bitwise, though < 1315044838 385592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you (easily) use doubles that always have integer values? < 1315044851 529250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they can represent the entire 32-bit range exactly < 1315044868 328023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure; would that really be faster? I mean, DES is pretty much bitwise twiddling all the way < 1315044870 506617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the whole float bad, int good mentality of CPU programming is sort-of upside-down on GPUs) < 1315044873 198285 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire 32 bit range? no way < 1315044877 822075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: yes way < 1315044878 205012 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the entire 16 bit range < 1315044884 583507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh? < 1315044886 785531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: double = 64 bits, isn't it? < 1315044888 802099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bits = float < 1315044891 402244 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315044913 753328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS uses doubles for all integers so I would be astonished if they only managed sixteen bits. < 1315044915 287412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't surprise me at all that in the 64 bits' worth of doubles, there's the entire 32-bit integer range < 1315044918 875785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An IEEE754 8-byte double can represent any 4-byte integer, simply because it has 53-odd bits available for precision (and the 4-byte integer only needs 32). < 1315044919 44218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1315044922 778905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shouldn't surprise you either < 1315044923 507490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr Patashu is wrong. < 1315044948 356087 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1315044951 31433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, I realise I'm not exactly exploiting the GPU's huge strengths, but it has many more cores than my CPU, so it'll still thrash it massively < 1315044968 82109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it can probably do up to 54-bit signed ints; the sign bit is separate, and for any int value, there'll be some exponent value that makes that mantissa value multiply by 1 < 1315044973 837671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1315045020 747280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I've been told that the term GPGPU technically only applies to general-purpose programming done with graphics primitives, like pixel shaders < 1315045034 983411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doing it with primitives more suitable for the task is called something else, which I can't remember < 1315045049 631639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't really care < 1315045131 344832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, oh, a gap in my rudimentary opencl knowledge < 1315045140 530593 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you implement the NES PPU + NES APU on the GPU? < 1315045154 546145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do I vary an argument to each kernel in CUDA? :-P < 1315045169 682826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah, I'm using OpenCL, but similar enough, right?) < 1315045177 748072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, all I've been doing is setting constant arguments and then running a bunch of threads that use their global ID < 1315045179 676233 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mantissa values multiplying by 1? base-1 system? < 1315045181 28098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1315045181 261831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the call looks something like kernel_name(args)<<>> < 1315045183 209201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're constant here < 1315045195 981646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :first_key needs offsetting by the global id < 1315045218 126740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: no, mantissa is scaled by 2^n, you just change the value of n to undo the first scaling of the mantissa to lie in the range 1..2 < 1315045235 93686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have that threads/blocks backwards < 1315045260 407300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I take it GPU buffers generally aren't 0-initialised... < 1315045261 928337 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there cryptographic functions which allow to decrypt parts of the data depending what key is supplied? < 1315045274 260561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: encrypt them separately, concatenate? < 1315045279 956210 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :different parts which are not mutually exclusive < 1315045289 77922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, but you can 0-initialize them manually easily enough < 1315045291 776951 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realize you can do this but it is not efficient < 1315045303 500883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone actually found a security hole in WebGL based on that < 1315045304 262220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1315045317 781029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you could grab parts of people's video memory, and thus what they were viewing on the screen, by exploiting that sort of thing < 1315045323 315015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send it back to the website you were viewing < 1315045330 103045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I want to reuse my allocated buffers throughout each kernel call if I can, right? < 1315045345 952062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're allocating in global GPU memory, right? yes, reuse it < 1315045354 466205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly just because it'll save the memory allocator a bit of work < 1315045378 794183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and /make sure/ you free, the OS won't necessarily be able to clean up after you if you don't, because GPUs don't have an OS < 1315045392 655187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen computers wedged due to GPU memory leaks before now < 1315045447 122989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a little surprising, because in theory the API to the GPU should be able to track all the memory being allocated as it's allocated, and deallocate in an atexit or something) < 1315045480 375038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1315045523 792905 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the original question is: if an SaaS is storing my data, how to make sure the SaaS can only extract the data i need it to extract for the purpose of reducing a large (~GB) data set to something that i would like to download over the internet (~500 KB) < 1315045554 385122 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. search through files without knowing their full contents. < 1315045574 876460 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :more generally, how to wite progrems that process data without knowing most of it. < 1315045594 573514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: there's been some research into that recently, but IIRC it's still in early stages < 1315045605 245956 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :where have you seen that? < 1315045613 597912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen it, just seen occasional talk about it < 1315045623 63329 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :by whom? < 1315045633 443282 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking of a bloom filter style encryption < 1315045635 583435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technologically-inclined news sites, I think, but I'm not sure < 1315045641 343619 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315045690 569948 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :encrypt it in blocks, and give the keys to blocks you want it to read? < 1315045715 842298 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would be the kind of approach i mean as "bloom filter" approach < 1315045729 793228 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloom filter's a completely different thing I thought < 1315045786 131172 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what i mean is you give the SaaS part of the meta data (in your blocks) and it either includes or precludes other blocks from being selected for being sent to you < 1315045834 135187 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you process these blocks (say they contain some extended metadata) and based on that you query more blocks. < 1315045843 997966 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on, and so forth. < 1315045964 74307 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but search and filtering is just one of the things performed on remote data sets < 1315045974 33698 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about some forms of (simple) compilation < 1315046054 236153 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any Haskell function like: f x y z = if z then x else y < 1315046091 698441 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you write a compiler which either 1. is distributed and therefore no node sees the whole source code or 2. works on only parts of the source with the other parts not being necessary to see, just a simple copy and paste recipe is given to the user < 1315046142 757448 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler to machine code or bytecode? < 1315046196 264533 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter < 1315046202 415350 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say a compiler to C-- < 1315046204 780382 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or LLVM < 1315046308 237797 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1315046334 692729 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a compiler from some language to python < 1315046337 930804 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for exampl < 1315046338 437351 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1315046355 780810 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems easy enough then - libraries exist for example < 1315046361 954821 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're fragmenting it further than the subroutine level? < 1315046400 222072 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't condition in Haskell implemented using a function like I said, instead of how it is? < 1315046503 385185 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1315046511 104053 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: because having special syntax is convenient < 1315046517 584312 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when it isn't at all < 1315046528 274719 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hurt me more than helped me, at least < 1315046560 390101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the special syntax is convenient. I think a function like that I described would make more sense and have a lot more uses. < 1315046603 989153 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a function like that in lisp I believe < 1315046673 478293 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice, I put the condition last on purpose. < 1315046738 406076 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315046738 566239 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd also be great to have a multi-clause lambda but nope < 1315046937 52614 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an implementation of Huffman trees in Haskell. < 1315047611 287740 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an implementation of Huffman trees in Haskell: http://sprunge.us/ARVR < 1315047779 568574 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315048027 91485 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can use a tree for decoding, but for encoding the tree is flipped. < 1315048176 82891 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315048206 584156 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1315048208 21272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, and /make sure/ you free, the OS won't necessarily be able to clean up after you if you don't, because GPUs don't have an OS < 1315048212 598083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, you really need to free every time? < 1315048218 22276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment, yes < 1315048254 866336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: haskell's if syntax is not convenient < 1315048257 926049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1315048260 150894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful < 1315048283 192906 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a better way than what I'm doing to get something like J's forks into haskell < 1315048289 534225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool t _ True = t; bool _ f False = f; if b t f = bool t f b < 1315048304 733474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: fork f g h x = f x `g` h x < 1315048312 51588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f g h x -> f x `g` h x < 1315048312 211859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ap .) . flip (.) < 1315048316 355120 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but I wanted something syntactically convenient < 1315048334 407103 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now I defined (<|) and (|>) to be (flip (.)) and (<*>), respectively < 1315048336 684613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork (+) (/) length seems pretty convenient :P < 1315048339 869701 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes that way "bool" is better. < 1315048362 634007 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your fork might be better < 1315048400 622629 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315048407 273603 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the usage of <| and |> is like (f <|g|> h) < 1315048408 807766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zid < 1315048417 422402 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone just linked me to the bfjoust wiki page < 1315048439 894168 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they all play off against each other, or do you just play individual matches < 1315048447 966683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a hill < 1315048448 154466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play against the hill < 1315048455 683052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they play individual matches against every other program on the hill < 1315048457 844876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the top n programs from the past, you play against < 1315048462 297457 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yay < 1315048464 30457 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fun < 1315048465 454951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you beat any of them in average, you get on the hill yourself < 1315048475 184150 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :koth has loop problems, invidiaul has sniping problems < 1315048484 607907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt is the current report < 1315048490 706364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :program sources at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ < 1315048490 866413 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to remember bf < 1315048498 961902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevant parts are in the article < 1315048505 210867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately it's the new unreadable article < 1315048506 781832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember the abbreviations exist, too, they'll save you lots of typing < 1315048510 202945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah right < 1315048518 515078 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I think that way "bool" is more sensible way to make the condition commands in Haskell, rather than if...then...else, due to functional programming and currying and so on. < 1315048520 505560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought someone fixed that, or at least toned it down < 1315048524 217698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or weren't you going to sort it out? < 1315048526 970178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: bfjoust programming is quite unlike bf programming; the abbreviations are key, and obvious algorithms don't work because of speed/unreliability < 1315048531 843063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: there was an edit war over the formatting of that article < 1315048534 578180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was too lazy in the end < 1315048538 637051 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still bad :P < 1315048541 440198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no war, I just told quintopia it was stupid :P < 1315048546 192894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BF_Joust&oldid=21108 this page might be more readable for you < 1315048555 521331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I removed all the gratuitous italics < 1315048565 406093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies is also invaluable, and includes lots of in-depth explanations of winning programs < 1315048574 909608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly ais523's, since he never stops typing < 1315048587 901851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only started dominating the hill towards the end < 1315048594 539430 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want top 100 < 1315048596 112674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by submitting a few ludicrously complex programs, then a much simpler one < 1315048597 703230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant the in-depth things < 1315048600 748793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: on what? < 1315048601 86106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315048606 767143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hill only goes to 40-something < 1315048607 234200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current hill is already pretty huge < 1315048619 82150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including 100 is probably not viable with the current state of BF Joust warriors < 1315048623 755729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the programs at the bottom are already pretty bad < 1315048634 359759 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My programs will be pretty bad too :P < 1315048648 612437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot < 1315048661 598044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/ is very useful for writing bots < 1315048664 48261 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders befunge wars < 1315048674 335121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you pit a program against anything on the current hill or anything you paste in, with full trace and animation < 1315048684 9484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge wars predates bf joust :) < 1315048685 912347 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :handy < 1315048689 472081 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1315048690 786978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fukyorbrane; but it's fatally broken, alas) < 1315048696 194595 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like befunge a lot < 1315048699 777444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er hm < 1315048700 276224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1315048701 259637 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an interpreter for it < 1315048702 404046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fukyourbrane was brainfuck < 1315048708 842411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has nobody actually done befunge yet? < 1315048710 701414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would surprise me < 1315048712 408414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_attack_with_decoys >>>>(-)*5<(+)*12<(-)*33<(+)*64(>)*7(>(+)*5[-])*19 < 1315048719 733165 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made the Huffman encode function is simple due to flipped trees: encode x = (>>= flip (findWithDefault []) (flipTree x)); < 1315048719 893370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: which Funge? < 1315048720 53176 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_simple_attack_with_decoys: 19.8 < 1315048723 88707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BeYourFunge was yours, wasn't it? but you never got very far with it < 1315048723 843191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :93 or 98? < 1315048724 953029 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I made my own < 1315048727 637615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1315048728 922709 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like 93 or 98 < 1315048734 616228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: so it's not befunge, then < 1315048736 410749 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it read 93 I think < 1315048741 227210 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also supported my funge < 1315048752 224337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, a simple attack program that just follows all the rules of making a simple rush program did in fact get on the hill < 1315048754 585114 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had graphics support :D < 1315048757 434163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd expect it to not have managed that < 1315048760 716622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's been a lot of progress on funge-98 in the past few years < 1315048769 930595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the release of the first even vaguely-compliant implementation four years ago) < 1315048770 90528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity fungot isn't here to show off < 1315048770 250514 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :push x,y,c on stack then there was a put pixel operation that popped them off < 1315048780 104250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fungot is missing? < 1315048793 814360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: (fungot is our bot written in befunge-98, it does a bunch of language interpretation and markov babbling) < 1315048794 104885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: incidentally, all this stemmed from a discussion on #nethack about how C++ was unreadable < 1315048797 217380 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never did get around to writing funge using cardinally linked lists < 1315048806 97842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the only useful funge program anyone's ever witten < 1315048815 11339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then someone mentioned brainfuck, and it spiralled from there < 1315048819 822809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1315048829 22869 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a quip ! < 1315048830 969492 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION preens < 1315048832 636586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, everything gets on the hill < 1315048838 954090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just usually gets shoved off next time < 1315048846 223347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, I mean it's not in last place < 1315048846 693259 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to figure out how this joust thing works < 1315048852 253855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, /me stern glares at submitting programs in private < 1315048856 822476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust clever < < 1315048859 459827 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for elliott_clever: 0.0 < 1315048862 619864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1315048867 47081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking questions in here can be a good idea < 1315048869 257009 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust righty > < 1315048870 148492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote Score for < 1315048871 984586 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_righty: 4.3 < 1315048873 271160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < always scores 0 < 1315048874 234892 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHAHAHA < 1315048874 611065 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :294) !bfjoust test (-)*10000 Score for Vorpal_test: 12.9 yay \ 295) !bfjoust test (++-)*1000000 probably will suck Score for Vorpal_test: 30.4 what \ 305) !bfjoust sm3 < Score for Deewiant_sm3: 43.4 < 1315048877 326823 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win :D < 1315048877 831108 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I added a #coding line to my python file but it still complains about unicode < 1315048881 888184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1315048882 737637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: !bfjoust sm3 < Score for Deewiant_sm3: 43.4 < 1315048884 673724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless someone puts something on the hill that also suicides turn 1 < 1315048885 461278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least it didn't used to :) < 1315048893 647476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the hill is no longer upside-down < 1315048896 731776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might have been during the randomisation days, though < 1315048901 831809 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I scored 4.3 that means I'm better? < 1315048902 527371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: upside-down? < 1315048908 32192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: well, out of a hundred < 1315048913 144209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: > basically moves to the second cell, then waits there forever < 1315048917 902918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it only wins if the opponent suicides < 1315048931 142627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < moves off the tape and suicides instantly, so it's worse < 1315048936 557381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you typically replace a program with < to delete it < 1315048940 800922 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zid1 [>] < 1315048943 687081 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_zid1: 4.3 < 1315048955 132284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the early days of the hill, losing programs got better scores < 1315048969 382146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, really? < 1315048969 602177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: the hill's padded with zeroes, so that moves to the second cell then exits < 1315048970 521058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that 43.4 score was a bug iirc that got fixed. < 1315048972 52909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the tape < 1315048972 834739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this was after that < 1315048977 169036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay < 1315048977 329147 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zid1 [>+] < 1315048980 68039 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_zid1: 0.0 < 1315048988 393869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that runs off the /right/ end against most programs < 1315048991 872014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: that'll just run off the end, yeah < 1315048993 704161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run it in egojsout or somewhere to check < 1315049018 218783 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I detect the 128 nonses without doing 128 test-subtracts? :P < 1315049020 143628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: UTF-16 stream does not start with BOM < 1315049025 417745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp that's Windows stuff < 1315049033 76149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: no, that's the main issue of the game < 1315049044 729780 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1315049047 146333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust the_inevitable_next_thing_to_try [>(-)*128] < 1315049049 829668 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_the_inevitable_next_thing_to_try: 4.7 < 1315049052 358203 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 128 to be large enough that you spend forever trying to detect it? < 1315049055 684200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's marginally better... < 1315049061 789353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: it's 128 for symmetry < 1315049070 251308 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetry? < 1315049077 65130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: programs are run with +- swapped in one situation; it's not important to understand right now but it helps balance < 1315049077 720367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: yep, so most programs try to figure out that a cell isn't a decoy before trying to clear it < 1315049088 33375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: basically, so that you can clear them with 128 +s or 128 -s < 1315049095 39768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it wraps < 1315049107 203903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :128 + 128 = 256 = 0 in 8-bit arithmetic < 1315049122 980166 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read this wiki page first < 1315049137 313154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strategies page, in particular, will help explain the basics < 1315049147 326344 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't understand the rules yet < 1315049162 518589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is just me, ais523 and bots, btw < 1315049168 309497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to read strategies but i want to try my stupid hand at some bfjoust, so I'll do that < 1315049171 350247 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315049175 433390 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a bot < 1315049178 220569 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to meet you < 1315049185 829066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is the stupidest of all our bots. < 1315049195 50350 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lose if I have a 0 to the left of my program counter? < 1315049199 498956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, statistically speaking, everyone but elliott is insignificant < 1315049200 122777 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :err tape pointer < 1315049206 736950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I, er, don't think OpenCL has anything to free buffers < 1315049210 139000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: no, you lose if the tape cell the pointer started on is 0 for two cycles in a row < 1315049219 607046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perhaps it's automatic in OpenCL, then; check the docs < 1315049236 155306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately, I don't know where the docs /are/; the spec is not really light reading < 1315049247 938841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: that's called your "flag"; generally, the goal of the game is to locate the enemy flag and zero it before they do the same to yours, without falling off the end of the tape < 1315049251 230063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just past the flag < 1315049263 246349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, paranoid programs have to zero every single cell from the tenth onwards before moving on < 1315049278 158633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, what does GPU assembly actually look like? I mean, in the abstract < 1315049279 645886 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why tenth onwards? < 1315049283 942117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't actually know < 1315049288 933590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: tape is ten to thirty elements < 1315049290 169510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: because the tape's always at least 10 cells long < 1315049295 998571 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know either, the driver translates to it doesn't it? < 1315049301 70821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can go to the tenth safely without a risk of falling off, but not beyond < 1315049304 550231 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how DX worked < 1315049323 229339 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why is zeroing what's ahead important? < 1315049335 753034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: because that's the goal of the game? < 1315049337 455542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you move past the opponent's flag, you lose (that's one of the rules of the game) < 1315049337 615580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to zero the enemy flag < 1315049353 227238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you zero the cell before moving off it, and hold it at 0 for two cycles, then you know it's safe to move on < 1315049363 711245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you were already at the flag, doing that makes you win < 1315049370 342460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you haven't won yet, it must be because you aren't at the flag < 1315049383 459886 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not that it makes me lose, but it makes me not win? < 1315049422 38175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose instantly if you fall off the tape (rule of the game), just as you lose if your flag's zero for two cycles (also a rule of the game) < 1315049428 439411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the only two ways to lose, IIRC < 1315049442 92849 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two cycles? < 1315049454 823856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, two cycles < 1315049457 61139 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says you don't lose if you fall off < 1315049459 60785 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't win < 1315049464 341304 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the other bot suicides < 1315049466 788314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: you don't lose if you fall off the end of the program < 1315049467 922463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lies < 1315049469 950215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1315049470 626340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1315049471 495913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do lose if you fall off the end of the tape < 1315049476 774637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that probably needs fixing in the wiki if it's unclear < 1315049478 290665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, a few separate read requests from the same buffer are faster than copying the whole sixteen megabyte thing, right? < 1315049478 889418 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fix the page? :/ < 1315049489 553662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: the page needs a total rewrite, but nobody cba enough to do so < 1315049497 261938 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just explain it to me then :P < 1315049498 112885 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/?ap&l=04363d6a559fdb8a002cd6a7b0f284f741f791a0&r=simple&t=25 < 1315049504 729841 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain that pretty animation too while you're at it < 1315049507 605647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that reaching the end of the program (as opposed to the tape) is not a loss; rather, a program that does that takes no action on any future cycle, and thus loses, wins, or draws according to whether the opponent manages to zero its flag, commit suicide, or do neither." < 1315049511 346366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonably clear < 1315049517 989662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: warriors are the things in the middle line, position is them moving < 1315049521 473555 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's the gamefield left to right, with a heightmap? < 1315049523 227395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bars are the tape values, treated as signed < 1315049525 250641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315049528 243948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1315049544 939396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the flags are at the end, initialized to 128 < 1315049552 844215 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1315049558 256604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, the red bot wins by a very small margin < 1315049568 534369 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is SO much clearer < 1315049570 616029 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :than ANY of the wiki < 1315049572 817652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it zeroes the blue flag just before the blue bot zeroes the red flag < 1315049579 227809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think looking at the trace is probably the way to go < 1315049601 314345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: hmm, a few separate read requests from the same buffer are faster than copying the whole sixteen megabyte thing, right? < 1315049613 277904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect only a handful, if that, of workers will actually succeed < 1315049614 605320 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to read from gpu memory? < 1315049619 741932 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRTY! < 1315049638 364963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: I'm doing GPU programming, how else am I meant to get my results out? < 1315049645 4071 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop trying to do useful work < 1315049645 277240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going through the defined APIs. :p < 1315049646 339034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, you have to do a complicated and slow memory transfer thing to read from global GPU memory (the details are abstracted for you with most good libraries) < 1315049648 44265 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the result as a texture < 1315049658 447109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not textures, this is OpenCL < 1315049661 11838 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1315049665 8207 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but you can do. < 1315049671 583002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a GPU->CPU transfer isn't that bad, and the length of time is probably going to be proportional to the size of the read plus a constant < 1315049675 942780 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop trying to do useful work, just calculate textures < 1315049678 332402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similar in speed to a CPU->CPU transfer < 1315049690 713601 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... any idea why Python would give me an attributeerror when trying to access a method < 1315049693 714512 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet when I print out dir < 1315049701 344461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, but copying sixteen bytes dotted around a buffer is faster than copying sixteen megabytes all at once, surely? < 1315049702 461180 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obj) I get the name < 1315049705 588813 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that make any sense? < 1315049706 684702 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why doesn't the 0 rule apply to red in this trace? < 1315049708 148134 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't to me < 1315049709 35001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so < 1315049728 790410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: because red 0s blue's flag just before blue 0s red's flag < 1315049742 717115 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I think I completely misread something < 1315049742 876896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see that red's flag still has a few pixels left when blue's is zeroed < 1315049748 336506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you win, you've won, game over < 1315049753 277707 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did < 1315049762 268829 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put an extra 'pointer' in there in my mind < 1315049775 646852 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :know offhand an averagely strong bot I can try snipe? < 1315049783 544182 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :program < 1315049806 20911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowpoke. (Note: advice not advisable.) < 1315049814 158613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"simple" in egojsout is designed to be beaten by programs people are testing < 1315049831 54677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-cl-mad-enable < 1315049831 224162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allow a * b + c to be replaced by a mad. The mad computes a * b + c with reduced accuracy. For example, some OpenCL devices implement mad as truncate the result of a * b before adding it to c." < 1315049831 384385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a mad optimisation < 1315049840 374197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, these flags are insane < 1315049847 616866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can basically pass -cl-break-the-entire-IEEE-floating-point-spec < 1315049853 387604 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a pretty picture < 1315049856 402407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-cl-fortran (-cl-strict-aliasing) < 1315049864 517828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't test against slowpoke, a) it's really really good, b) it'll probably crash your browser (but waterfall variants are even better at doing that) < 1315049881 558409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a good program that's short to test against, try allegro < 1315049884 687220 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right wins apparently < 1315049884 981099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's in the dropdown) < 1315049889 835833 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I get a red/blue graph of this somehow < 1315049895 410160 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust winner [[-]-] < 1315049899 76192 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_winner: 14.2 < 1315049901 970933 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooo < 1315049912 17481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: click on one of the < or > marks < 1315049915 346054 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust winner [[-]>What is this I don't even] < 1315049918 165604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll show you the graph for one tape length < 1315049918 963769 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_winner: 13.7 < 1315049937 221839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wait, how does [[-]-] not simply suicide at the start of the game? < 1315049952 373645 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am always perceived to be on the left hand side? < 1315049967 106650 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first program entered will be the "left program", the red one attacking from the left < 1315049968 269151 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how does scoring work? < 1315049970 37600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the one in the top text box < 1315049982 393257 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there it is < 1315049983 470752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/SCORES explains it < 1315050023 952942 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My browser is dying a death :P < 1315050044 587308 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ( the same as [ < 1315050056 164362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ()* is an abbreviation for allowing you to abbreviate long programs < 1315050063 623261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of writing ++++++++++ you can just write (+)*10 < 1315050070 157091 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see < 1315050077 296974 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>)*9 makes sense now < 1315050085 633602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just syntactic sugar, but it helps a lot, particularly with high repeat counts < 1315050090 300250 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway [[-]-] was my stalemating bot < 1315050107 386291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: after the 128th - it runs ], checks that the square's 0, and now it's been 0 two cycles in a row < 1315050111 549135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one setting it to 0, one checking it's 0 < 1315050114 864654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's actually a suiciding bot < 1315050118 906578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1315050128 870357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully the enemy would have tampered with it by then < 1315050130 343812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a trivial stalemate on the flag is intentionally very hard to do < 1315050143 686836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that's where your only wins were coming from < 1315050146 695803 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: Quitting are not permitted!!! < 1315050152 63755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, "const size_t foo = bar;" where bar is "const size_t bar = 999;" doesn't work because foo's initialiser is not constant? < 1315050157 93509 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315050171 217543 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1315050173 867779 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while writing I forgot [ and ] were actually instructions < 1315050183 390736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as noted previously, I am the stupidest bot < 1315050185 251283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] actually feature quite rarely in the top programs < 1315050189 644738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're slow :) < 1315050198 198057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're necessary, though < 1315050203 810834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, anticipation is mostly square brackets, IIRC < 1315050212 9369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's 11th < 1315050222 337071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not really that necessary < 1315050230 943899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, most of their uses can be totally inlined at the expense of insane explosion < 1315050232 803647 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beat simple < 1315050233 230162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only program that beats slowpoke without being specifically designed to beat it < 1315050238 600044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: well done! < 1315050245 37823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not post the program in-channel to see if it gets on the hill < 1315050251 809486 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simple_sniper >(+)*9(>)*8([-]>)*400 < 1315050254 600975 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_simple_sniper: 20.8 < 1315050259 237487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: want to feel daunted? < 1315050260 952103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust < 1315050261 388713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ais523_waterfall3.bfjoust < 1315050269 123254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be interested in http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/breakdown.txt < 1315050270 42927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(programs partially machine-generated) < 1315050276 751665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which shows you which programs your program beat, and which it lost to < 1315050283 164672 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing me vs waterfall 3 atm < 1315050285 848610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually understand space_elevator, or did once < 1315050290 76322 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right wins, 12 < 1315050291 804545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't :) < 1315050307 390451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: the various traces it links to are the different tape lengths and polarities < 1315050310 852684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was studying my opposition in great detail < 1315050311 237623 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, You can dump -1's in to delay them, I guess < 1315050317 329569 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do that < 1315050321 315816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: yep, the concept of decoys < 1315050328 373183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the polarities are: in "sieve" polarity, the left and right programs have +- as normal; but with "kettle" polarity, +- is swapped for one of the programs < 1315050329 958906 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simpler >(-)*9(>)*8([-]>)*400 < 1315050332 523238 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_simpler: 19.2 < 1315050334 840443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it doesn't matter which, as far as the winner goes) < 1315050340 351785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programs will more or less effortlessly clear past smallish decoys, though < 1315050345 734899 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simpler (>-)*9([-]>)*400 < 1315050349 373735 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_simpler: 6.3 < 1315050352 759415 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmph < 1315050355 313404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: this is because in the early days, people submitted programs that were just +- swaps of others, and did unreasonably well < 1315050358 896620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your decoy of size 9 worked better than a decoy of size 1 < 1315050376 730408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason is that most programs know that decoys of size 1 are easy to make < 1315050380 376496 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you figure out if a decoy is a decoy? < 1315050388 719860 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment once? < 1315050391 913493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you normally try making small changes to it to see if it becomes zero < 1315050403 990596 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could make an anti-decoy with a +? :) < 1315050407 486612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "offset clear" revolutionized BF Joust, I think < 1315050417 360049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's explained in the strategy article < 1315050422 904850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, you clear with, say, ++[-] < 1315050433 516145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that any decoy value from -2 to +2 will be cleared almost instantly < 1315050434 149162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compilation error: :9:24: error: can't convert between vector values of different size ('key_t' and 'int') < 1315050434 483602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315050444 64055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I should learn how opencl vectors work < 1315050453 511587 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust winner_ii [[+-](+)*64] < 1315050457 246297 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_winner_ii: 8.1 < 1315050460 229596 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315050466 200741 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simpler (>-)*9([+]>)*400 < 1315050468 846282 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_simpler: 15.0 < 1315050472 883101 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simpler (>---)*9([+]>)*400 < 1315050475 706264 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_simpler: 11.0 < 1315050477 907092 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simpler (>---)*3([+]>)*400 < 1315050480 628612 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_simpler: 14.3 < 1315050490 877371 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust simpler (>)*9([+]>)*400 < 1315050493 638607 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_simpler: 16.1 < 1315050503 723301 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still can't beat my 20.8 :P < 1315050505 751111 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluke < 1315050505 914965 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust winner_ii [[-](-)*64] < 1315050509 655196 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_winner_ii: 15.5 < 1315050512 283613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: one marginal improvement: there's never any point in doing > more than 29 times without a < in between, so you can do, say, *9 then *20 and get a slight improvement for free < 1315050522 841910 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo I beat winner < 1315050532 453210 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beat waterfall 3 < 1315050532 613215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there are any vibration programs on the hill that it would help against, though < 1315050538 510323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315050552 575488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :waterfall3 is a little fragile in one of its detection loops < 1315050566 605777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compilation error: :12:2: error: statement requires expression of scalar type ('char __attribute__((ext_vector_type(8,8)))' invalid) < 1315050566 846903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (key < first_key + (key_t)KEY_WORKLOAD); < 1315050567 6816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ < 1315050567 6933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know any more... < 1315050569 258815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a GA to tweak the constants in it so that it wouldn't lose against any of the programs on the hill at the time < 1315050574 769524 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either I beat it, or it beat me :P < 1315050575 933787 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust winner_iii [[(-)*64](-)*64] < 1315050578 152725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1315050578 562590 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_winner_iii: 8.4 < 1315050585 687620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: are you trying to compare vectors with zid: the various traces it links to are the different tape lengths and polarities < 1315050628 242383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically, the polarities are: in "sieve" polarity, the left and right programs have +- as normal; but with "kettle" polarity, +- is swapped for one of the programs < 1315050633 569872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just showing by how many of those you won < 1315050638 298480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 10, for instance, means left beats right on 10 more possibilities than right beats left (or is it the other way round?) < 1315050638 764336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok i didn't say it explicitly :P < 1315050645 543289 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1315050649 708135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always going to be an even number unless there are draws < 1315050657 8286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often even then < 1315050662 592740 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/?l=15396a05bd5bf1a9cf46c801df0d4408d6a43277&r=721bcf3b62a9de45dd13d789ddc874fce091e147&t=10 < 1315050679 631823 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :untouched! < 1315050679 792002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does that URL link to waterfall3 in any way? < 1315050683 277353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, it'll crash my computer < 1315050685 558354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd better avoid it < 1315050685 848372 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315050687 604590 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine by me < 1315050695 898500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :works in Chrome just fine :P < 1315050701 354508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can you coerce an integer of an appropriate size into a vector? < 1315050702 273089 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox is only using 460MB of ram < 1315050705 836716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crashes Chromium too for me < 1315050711 308079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just have a weak computer < 1315050711 468066 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1315050714 961820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know < 1315050715 692901 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using firefox 9.0a1 < 1315050717 652971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, I think I should keep the key counter as an integer, and just cast it in the loop body < 1315050718 690727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bah :P < 1315050724 543902 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the fuck minefield is called these days < 1315050742 632988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox G(A64) < 1315050760 906240 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.0a1 (2011-09-01) < 1315050782 331373 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do I get a prize for sniping waterfall 3? < 1315050796 183534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: I'm looking at it atm < 1315050804 771304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be very close, and vary a lot at different tape lengths < 1315050815 371485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm looking in my own BF Joust program "juiced") < 1315050826 429046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: it's easy to counter a single program; significantly harder to counter more than one strategy :) < 1315050828 310589 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a single step debugger < 1315050840 488209 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: shh, that was my 2nd attempt at a program < 1315050846 808449 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just happened to randomly beat waterfall 3 :P < 1315050849 817427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/elliott_interior_crocodile_alligator.bfjoust did surprisingly well just by countering one program < 1315050854 268346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because it produced something utterly mad < 1315050859 499969 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome name < 1315050860 770420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even understand how it works myself < 1315050872 606070 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315050886 959235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it beats waterfall3 by being a very fast rush that isn't triplockable < 1315050896 737008 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :triplock? :) < 1315050902 543031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that fast rushes coded that naively tend not to stay on the hill long < 1315050909 917931 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1315050915 26855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: basically, it's a method of attacking ]]] in a program's control flow < 1315050916 160514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust_strategies#Triplock < 1315050930 921604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by detecting the first ] falling through and making sure the cell isn't zero for the third < 1315050936 242537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the opposing program gets stuck in a loop < 1315050949 593633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was trying to triplock your program, which of course has no ]]] anywhere < 1315050964 19322 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1315050964 673559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its reverse tripwires don't work to detect it because it rushes past them before they can be set up < 1315050977 512140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's using the triplock as a last resort, and failing < 1315050986 88463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had fun making waterfall3, but it's way too complex for its own good < 1315051002 464174 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like vibrator < 1315051033 644402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it beats waterfall2 the same way, incidentally < 1315051043 709409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, that one's much more decisive < 1315051046 649406 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not quite sure how to come up with a strategy for this < 1315051053 646621 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently 6 pooling < 1315051058 805552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is anyone else, that's part of the fun in the game < 1315051064 85477 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can work my way up to a 4 gate < 1315051075 852150 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :waterfall3 is like a 1 gate fast expand :P < 1315051082 757803 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starcraft 2 references galore < 1315051130 234558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I know a starcraft 2 player, so I get the references even though I don't play it myself < 1315051150 212841 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves SC2 < 1315051159 575054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, defend9.75 is still up there too < 1315051166 356820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there'll be a renaissance of fast rush programs < 1315051179 909392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, hmm < 1315051187 631677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what endianness are GPUs this decade? < 1315051192 891134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is, they seem far too easy to decoy against, and tripwire-avoidance is a) the only known fastrush counterstrategy, and b) it doesn't work < 1315051197 894420 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: it is time to write a lingrush.bfjoust < 1315051201 328976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I, um, don't know, I've never written code where it's relevant < 1315051201 927464 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1315051206 767572 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right wins (24) < 1315051207 391028 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1315051224 690478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neither have I, but I suspect casting a ulong to a uchar8 vector makes it relevant < 1315051238 160414 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust winner_iii >[[+]+]<[[+]+] < 1315051239 586030 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, 26 < 1315051242 80765 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_winner_iii: 14.3 < 1315051243 707114 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I'm done with winners for now < 1315051244 693713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: write a test program and find out? < 1315051260 153359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14.3 seems standard for programs that slowly suicide < 1315051264 565296 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is so good at bfjoust < 1315051265 537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably beats turtles, or something < 1315051265 662765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: already have, just wondering whether it mightn't be broken < 1315051268 23711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gpls need a repl < 1315051273 317513 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm not even trying < 1315051275 626172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1315051276 300759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gpus < 1315051289 798300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's probably float-endian or something insane like that < 1315051297 283623 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a quick suicide < 1315051307 38991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, < always gets 0 < 1315051324 861829 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust whats_bfjoust_help [-] < 1315051325 21811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust how_many_turtles (+)*88 < 1315051329 680809 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_whats_bfjoust_help: 13.2 < 1315051329 984920 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_how_many_turtles: 14.1 < 1315051333 390502 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust meow >->+>->>-------------+>>>-([+]>)*400 < 1315051336 32693 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_meow: 12.4 < 1315051337 943013 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315051360 566898 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It beats waterfall3 on tape size 10! < 1315051363 127933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering if part of the winner score is a result of accidentally locking reverse offset clears < 1315051367 302969 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only loses by 16 overall < 1315051368 974347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: waterfalls do better on long tapes < 1315051383 688163 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it named waterfall? < 1315051386 608678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that sets up that many tripwires and locks will < 1315051395 472092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it's a pun on lock as in canal lock < 1315051405 160105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you string lots of those together, you basically get a (slow) waterfall < 1315051434 974905 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust winner_iv [[(-)*128](+)*128] < 1315051437 627663 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_winner_iv: 8.2 < 1315051443 286564 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true victory < 1315051460 600816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_love_vibrations ((+)*128(-)*128)*1000 < 1315051465 439345 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_i_love_vibrations: 11.9 < 1315051468 728000 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust the_best (>)*7+++>--->(++[-]>)*50 < 1315051471 522539 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for CakeProphet_the_best: 10.4 < 1315051481 822468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good warriors today A+ < 1315051483 209543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i_love_vibrations did far too well, go add more antishudders, people! < 1315051496 114337 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should snipe winner < 1315051497 683906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, making a defend9.75 or a waterfall3 takes time < 1315051498 498338 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does { do < 1315051503 849180 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expansion again? < 1315051513 249326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but for nested brackets < 1315051524 846749 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs to figure out how to write what he wants to write < 1315051527 201696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a{b}c)*5 = (a)*5b(c)*5 = aaaaabccccc < 1315051543 291222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only exists because brackets have to match, you can't write ([)*5 < 1315051553 222670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, (a{b}c)%5, I mean < 1315051567 888649 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at control flow in brainfuck < 1315051580 777164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you need to abbreviate lots of nested loops, you do it like that < 1315051583 980200 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to increment by 1, check for 0, otherwise decrement by 2, else increment until 0 < 1315051593 994130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[--[+]] < 1315051620 866379 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an 'ad infinitum' structure I can use < 1315051622 134977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, it's possible to almost directly convert the words into symbols and have it work < 1315051628 264583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :()*100000 works < 1315051633 580997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 100000 is the cycle limit < 1315051659 31936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think many interps accept *-1 as a shorthand for that; I'm not sure if the one egobot's using does (iirc chainlance or cranklance, I forget which) < 1315051664 128936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :)*-1, please < 1315051664 685733 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wiggly (>)*9+([--[+]]>)*1000000 < 1315051667 523282 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_wiggly: 14.3 < 1315051675 133107 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust winner_v [](+)*100000 < 1315051677 845219 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_winner_v: 4.4 < 1315051679 456704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the agreed-upon abbreviation >:D < 1315051682 776879 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wiggly (>)*9+([++[-]]>)*-1 < 1315051685 593429 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_wiggly: 14.0 < 1315051694 901536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just like "sieve" and "kettle" are agreed-upon? < 1315051708 455502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, except that more than just me supports -1 < 1315051709 936448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of BF Joust terminology seems to have been you imposing your views on things < 1315051711 392910 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust the_best (>)*9([-]>)*5(++[-.])*100 < 1315051714 46385 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for CakeProphet_the_best: 3.3 < 1315051716 41961 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315051716 272105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder if juiced does < 1315051718 511946 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wiggly (++>-->)*9+([--[+]]>)*-1 < 1315051719 795427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it does, but am not sure < 1315051721 168561 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_wiggly: 5.2 < 1315051729 87449 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1315051743 363679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, seems I rewrite it to 1000000 during parsing < 1315051749 499651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: you start with 18 >s < 1315051753 398072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's going to run off the tape quite a lot < 1315051771 796852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have two >s in the *9 abbreviation) < 1315051783 829471 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops it misdirects the flag < 1315051789 738178 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :detects < 1315051794 76945 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust wiggly (++>-->)*4+([--[+]]>)*-1 < 1315051796 879506 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for zid_wiggly: 21.5 < 1315051800 2505 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :highscore! < 1315051802 510459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, best so far < 1315051805 333312 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust stupid_rush (>)*9([+]>)*5([-])*100 < 1315051807 996532 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for CakeProphet_stupid_rush: 5.8 < 1315051824 43076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's made it onto the hill, in position 39 < 1315051825 483261 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wtf did it do there.. < 1315051838 159720 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, your bot fucking reset it < 1315051845 897128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bot only shows the last run < 1315051851 293000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just resubmit, or run locally < 1315051858 422704 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :waterfall 3 zipped across the screen and flipped it from 0 to 1 < 1315051862 752942 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I started incrementing it again < 1315051869 117694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does that < 1315051878 686297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a defensive program < 1315051881 913565 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could I carpet bomb 10-35 with 1s every now and then? < 1315051885 342398 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1s < 1315051895 74046 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could but not effectively. < 1315051895 422940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't go past the opponent's flag, if you do, instant loss < 1315051899 700155 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right.. < 1315051907 856107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can carpet bomb 2->current safe known location, if you like < 1315051919 489378 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I pick a length of tape < 1315051921 99095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the program for that would likely be machine-generated as it doesn't code trivially into BF < 1315051941 152110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the simulators, yes, that's what the links in egojsout are for (various tape lengths) < 1315051947 672849 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1315051950 339316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the actual game, no, as it'd make it obvious where the flag was < 1315051953 897072 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lose length 13 < 1315051962 790348 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get caught in a trap < 1315051967 265498 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice < 1315051979 639894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good summary of waterfall3 :D < 1315051984 584106 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :three times.. < 1315051987 771894 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stunlocked me :( < 1315051994 265882 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :four times :D < 1315051999 101484 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :five haha < 1315052014 910150 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 8 so far < 1315052031 743479 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm stuck on the square before your flag, perpetually decrementing a square < 1315052035 249049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what will happen if I for (;;); on a GPU? < 1315052046 569471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bad things, I'm not sure exactly how bad < 1315052060 63897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I'll find out < 1315052061 673253 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1315052064 756165 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315052066 953415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: that's known as a lock; it's what waterfall3 attempts to achieve, as a lock-based defense program < 1315052071 796010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll win eventually, but it may take it a while < 1315052080 973387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's going to clear every other square on the tape really thoroughly, in order < 1315052081 650203 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh wow, I actually trapped waterfall 3 < 1315052082 179769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: absolutely nothing happened -- mostly because I hvae this sneaking feeling my kernel isn't executing < 1315052086 899466 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shorted its logic out, it's completely stuck < 1315052098 821847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: on which tape length? < 1315052099 984808 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd link you it but you won't click it < 1315052104 179786 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 < 1315052104 808449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can run it local < 1315052108 377777 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(++>-->)*4+([--[+]]>)*-1 < 1315052109 721189 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs that < 1315052140 476102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: yep, what's happening is that the decoys collided with each other < 1315052158 175907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :defense programs get more-or-less random results on short tapes as a result of the details of how decoy setups mix < 1315052206 896957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, is there any good way to crash a GPU? I'm fairly sure my kernel isn't actually running :P < 1315052222 401507 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some opencl very very briefly < 1315052227 457396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure, but crashing a GPU typically requires a hard reboot of your computer < 1315052232 226335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably not what you want to do < 1315052234 302375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's OK, I'm desperate < 1315052237 309255 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lost the source though it was on some guy's machine with 4 expensive radeons for bitcoin mining < 1315052237 742746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're lucky, the driver will notice < 1315052242 841879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(;;); is executing in 0 time, s < 1315052243 511185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1315052246 492824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get things back to a roughly sane state < 1315052259 453840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try doing an infinite loop that can't be obviously optimized out < 1315052263 26925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for elliott to ping out < 1315052263 290121 :jix!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315052266 591461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315052279 497486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: I'm starting to worry that the entire userbase and market of OpenCL might be built around libertarians < 1315052285 427946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, of GPUs probably :P < 1315052291 885330 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the replays get horrendously slow on tape length 30 < 1315052297 51576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wonder how many dollars have been spent on bitcoin mining hardware so far?) < 1315052314 144268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: waterfall3 actually rushes the last few tape cells in some situations, to avoid hitting the cycle limit < 1315052319 222236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how slow it is < 1315052328 172487 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean computationally < 1315052330 443120 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting 1fps < 1315052335 745935 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tape 10 I get about 100fps < 1315052336 312286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: chrome < 1315052340 533824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because it's still computing the end of the run < 1315052343 101239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, it's faster :P < 1315052349 519145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe your cpu is just slow :| < 1315052353 981889 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not installing a browse for 1 website < 1315052359 257087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 100fps, it's playing back a recording < 1315052359 444950 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2.4GHz core2 quad < 1315052368 440298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 1fps, it's trying to play back a recording while computing the end of that recording < 1315052378 894215 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it said 'right wins' ? < 1315052384 70370 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it shipping it off to some cgi to do < 1315052389 414245 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I watch the recording, js fights < 1315052395 275563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to actually compute the recording as well as just run the program < 1315052400 282094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can watch the start while the end's being generated < 1315052412 837247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll to the end of the page to see how far it's got generating the runthrough < 1315052424 364962 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is your decoy setup the same each run? < 1315052439 748778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to randomize it, so yes < 1315052443 143480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a given program < 1315052449 779015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :different programs of mine use different decoy setups, unsurprisingly < 1315052453 851376 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :could I just do the complete inverse of what waterfall3 does for any tape length wide enough to contain all of your decoys, I guess I'm asking < 1315052485 358098 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for tape length >20 there's basically two parts, the 'head' end which tries to navigate the decoys, and the 'tail' end that sets them up < 1315052496 660682 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a bunch of coinflip wins/losses for short tapes :P < 1315052504 531989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: it's possible, for any BF Joust program, to generate a program that beats it on all configurations < 1315052515 186237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this hasn't ever been actually proven but is pretty obvious < 1315052518 15465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: was that ever proved? I strongly suspect it's true, but don't actually /know/ < 1315052518 175758 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seems likely, but have you proven it < 1315052521 931416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it could be false, but I'd rather not believe it's false < 1315052530 282523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, point is, it's possible in practice even if not in theory :P < 1315052531 764401 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gut says it's true < 1315052543 78449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: tl;dr Yes, you can, but it'll probably make no sense at all and do terribly against other programs < 1315052554 137591 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, depends < 1315052562 759983 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it could work just fine < 1315052568 86789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm actually wondering if whether given any set of programs, there's always some program that beats them all on all configs < 1315052576 497888 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :say a bot leaves a +4, -5, +2, 128 < 1315052583 805294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a rather stronger hypothesis, but one that breaks the game quite thoroughly < 1315052588 374237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Finite set, I presume < 1315052589 115848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at one point, I was considering proving that, then programatically generating that program and submitting it to the hill < 1315052590 745716 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just do - until 0, + until 0, - until 0, + until zero < 1315052592 699276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1315052600 425780 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that bot will never *fail* to kill the flag < 1315052604 984614 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just won't be optimal against a lot of stuff < 1315052606 144867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you're evil, generate it, submit it, and then iterate < 1315052608 607712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: no, you recognise the decoy on tape length 10, then go straight to the flag and zero it < 1315052631 202858 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wasn't going to do that. I wanted less specific < 1315052636 802095 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a soft-counter < 1315052636 962068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I remember when you submitted a copy of then-beating-everything waterfall3 and I tweaked a constant slightly to make it beat even the original waterfall3 < 1315052641 870894 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a hard counter < 1315052646 97327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1315052673 803012 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, this is eating my browser < 1315052686 307154 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.2GB of memory in use and 25% cpu :D < 1315052697 481308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a C program to test programs against each other, it's rather faster than egojsout < 1315052717 616348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the animations aren't as pretty < 1315052722 704095 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gief? < 1315052733 402902 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be fine with ncurses tbh < 1315052743 157388 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :%02X * 30 with ansi codes to colour red/blue or purple < 1315052750 516847 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* tape size rather < 1315052751 441123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's X11, and just uses numbers to show values rather than a histogram < 1315052762 779795 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make an ncurses version < 1315052768 105622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw X11 protocol over sockets? impressive < 1315052775 701665 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use xcb < 1315052776 589278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wait for lance, everyone, chainlance and egojoust are both really terrible :P < 1315052778 370363 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than X11 < 1315052785 544091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: rather than Xlib, you mean < 1315052792 834535 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rather than either < 1315052794 693922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go: http://sprunge.us/fALT < 1315052803 480798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xcb is gross because it's asynchronous and asynchronous shit is gross because C is gross and lacks continuations < 1315052814 915001 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very.. good.. ais < 1315052818 767424 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(christ look at that mess) < 1315052825 3147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no mess < 1315052830 241869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it filename to both programs as first and second args, tape length as third arg to limit to one tape length, anything as fourth arg to get an "animation" < 1315052832 817351 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 20 levels of nesting! < 1315052838 421722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't < 1315052844 784621 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1315052855 884289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an imperative C program, you'd expect many layers of nesting < 1315052867 401190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an OO program that uses lots of helper functions to keep cyclomatic complexity down < 1315052867 561152 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 how does it know to sabotage me? < 1315052876 362092 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have to be OO < 1315052877 731057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that? < 1315052881 488433 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to be function names :P < 1315052887 373002 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's backtracking exactly to where i am < 1315052894 432217 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fuzzing the cell I'm [-]ing < 1315052898 629253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, because it locked you there in the first place < 1315052908 861041 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's using prior knowledge? < 1315052915 509715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a case of it guessing where you are; rather, it decided where it wanted you to be, and made sure you went there < 1315052925 308094 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this shit is retardedly clever :P < 1315052933 218211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"retardedly clever" --zid, genius. < 1315052958 384585 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 184 results (0.12 seconds) < 1315052962 722236 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE :( < 1315053050 175856 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ais is too clever for me by like several orders of metric < 1315053063 917977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: I've had a few years' head start when it's come to jousting < 1315053114 749549 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could win by never leaving cells 0-3 < 1315053121 603269 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs any amount of things < 1315053146 977033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a defence program < 1315053163 51868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will just sit there if the other program is defence, unless you give up after a while and go attack (hybrid) < 1315053166 327001 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am being highly unoriginal here aren't I < 1315053172 925929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hybrid strategies are difficult to write, but have large payoff < 1315053180 223907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: no, it's very hard to think of a new strategy nowadays < 1315053181 255972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: being original is probably quite difficult to do < 1315053186 224808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep poke was the last one < 1315053190 835156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lead to ais523 almost declaring the game beaten < 1315053200 167685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that's not what made me declare the game beaten < 1315053201 332949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then he thought of a counterstrategy that might beat the game instead : < 1315053202 173636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315053202 731734 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read a post about that < 1315053209 618293 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :need a new game now < 1315053211 310330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? where? < 1315053214 363773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was timer clear, which destroys all defense programs, as far as I can tell < 1315053222 967070 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Games you play are fun while everybody is bad, but eventually get less fun as you get better, because the limits of the game are exposed < 1315053225 561678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even figured out how to get it to beat anticipation, which I thought was a counterstrategy < 1315053231 68371 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the example game now, it was something about asking questions < 1315053233 361201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I saw that < 1315053241 691948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed a bit shallow < 1315053247 365174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't necessarily beat all rush programs, just all defense < 1315053252 768043 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a bit of a.. erm.. deepity < 1315053254 612721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought you thought that a revised slowpoke might beat the game < 1315053258 309676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then realised it was beatable < 1315053262 766786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then thought of another strategy < 1315053265 135364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might beat the game instead < 1315053274 65817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought that it might completely destroy defense, not the game in general < 1315053284 990379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anticipation was what I thought the counterexample was (you'll notice it beats slowpoke) < 1315053290 81082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, defence is three/fourths of the game nowadays < 1315053291 735118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I came up with a way for slowpoke to beat that too < 1315053303 42014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, I've forgotten what it was < 1315053311 260323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately, I imagine I'll work it out again with some thought < 1315053312 467097 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice writeup of waterfall 3 < 1315053315 518280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315053330 637470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/writeup/thesis/ < 1315053332 707637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think defense isn't that high a proportion; it's mostly me who submits complex defense programs, and only because I enjoy writing them < 1315053334 5041 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"figure out the fuck the other guy must be doing to have cleared certain cells, and plant stuff that would kill it" is pretty much it? < 1315053350 501225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: yep < 1315053368 853940 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably a more chaotic program would be harder to beat for waterfall3 < 1315053370 977339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's more measuring how long it takes to clear cells, than which cells are cleared < 1315053375 318043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, yes < 1315053391 500796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternating between more than two strategies for clearing beats it, for instance < 1315053393 574539 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess longer programs have an advantage < 1315053401 842069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICA is basically the typical chaotic program -- wow < 1315053403 34433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ICA < 1315053408 717861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there are some sneaky tricks in there for beating progams that just alternate between two things) < 1315053415 509666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it can't be /that/ rare an acronym < 1315053422 402196 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I at least thinking about strategy well? :/ < 1315053422 566672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315053423 526395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, make an inferior_crocodile_alligator that's not quite as good < 1315053426 508820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: yes < 1315053426 809113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: yes < 1315053443 238963 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declare myself a fast learning, if not skillful, then :P < 1315053447 947359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people just spend a few days submitting nonsense programs that happen to get high results on the current hill before giving up and copying others < 1315053448 220015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICA only wins because it behaves so stupidly that defense programs have no idea what it's going to do next < 1315053467 594618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, but the only continuation of the ICA naming scheme is the inevitable chevrolet_movie_theatre < 1315053474 452256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I suppose I'll use if I come up with a program that does massively well < 1315053485 692722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm amused that Gregor and I came to more or less the same program strategy via indepedent reasoning < 1315053492 780531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently so, that Gregor accused me of copying him < 1315053506 236555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although slowpoke does much better than the furry girls, because it doesn't try to be too complicated < 1315053506 476324 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there one called I_drive_a < 1315053510 706629 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to fill that gap < 1315053515 154072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1315053544 874065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust i_drive_a [>] < 1315053546 223938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there is < 1315053547 936954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, about long programs: allegro is third, and it's a oneliner < 1315053553 262544 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for elliott_i_drive_a: 4.5 < 1315053559 300239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessssssssssss < 1315053565 963546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's slightly more than 4.3! < 1315053568 153873 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :define oneliner? :P < 1315053573 476631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits into one line of IRC < 1315053577 753896 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1315053582 694766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's allegro: ->++>-->>+>>->+>+(>[(+)*9[-].[.+]])*2(+<)*4(+)*23<(-)*23<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30<(+)*29(>)*9++(>[(+)*16[-].[.+]][-[+]])*19 < 1315053584 303061 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the link to the hill again? < 1315053589 726430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt < 1315053597 920711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can submit long programs via giving URLs to EgoBot) < 1315053607 17105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there a way t < 1315053611 11787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o reset my GPU memory? < 1315053611 905724 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't I be on there? < 1315053612 196072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarting X? < 1315053617 441133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my program is leaky and I want to play DF) < 1315053622 286528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a time, people were submitting arbitrary pages to EgoBot as a joke, like the report, and Google < 1315053627 214356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not in general, no < 1315053630 434912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarting X might work < 1315053643 191592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't count on it < 1315053643 809350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard reboot will work < 1315053650 120514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll hard reboot then < 1315053654 595907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by literally holding the power button < 1315053658 9388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :live fast, die young < 1315053658 371590 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is pretty sure he scored >20 twice < 1315053659 18571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: you are on there < 1315053669 444071 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-f zid 404 < 1315053670 790830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiggly and simple_sniper are both on the list < 1315053678 845509 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cache is wrong < 1315053682 154753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 39 47 21.13 -7.79 zid_wiggly.bfjoust < 1315053691 197655 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox seems to be ignoring it < 1315053697 853028 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the no-cache header < 1315053711 594295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressing F5 works < 1315053713 710190 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come there's a 4.47? < 1315053726 181126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the most recently submitted program < 1315053731 393347 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always gets 48th? < 1315053735 35357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not on the hill, but it's shown in comparison to the others < 1315053738 596269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that people know how well it did < 1315053746 598200 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315053767 535620 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :39th will do, I said I wanted a hill position and I got one :P < 1315053782 537352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most recently eliminated program (which is often but not always the most recently submitted) is shown on the list at the top too < 1315053808 742664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, space_elevator is still #5 < 1315053829 379088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to remember how it works < 1315053831 260885 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been thinking about improving it < 1315053833 792738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315053841 976043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: does anyone but you and me understand it at all? < 1315053847 923582 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should think about a funge war would work < 1315053856 227435 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf is cool because it has the idea of a tape already in it < 1315053869 711962 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really need to add anything but machine architecture < 1315053886 209035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, Kerim coming up with sharing the tapes was a pretty nifty idea that got it all started < 1315053887 878681 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you understood it once. i am too lazy to write it out, but it is actually less complicated than slow poke < 1315053903 496711 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We should write quad core bf apps, obviously < 1315053904 865328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, seems about right, it just has stupidly many cases < 1315053907 490165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it look confusing < 1315053923 217343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most of which are the same basic concept but differ in the details) < 1315053933 33735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slowpoke is relatively simple too < 1315053940 53096 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders about competitive spacechem < 1315053940 354425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least compared to waterfall3 < 1315053948 920301 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: i had a plan for a funge game. shared fungespace with code that is unwritable by the other guy, since the goal is to overwrite a certain shared area < 1315053949 941541 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :red vs blue waldo < 1315053959 384379 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Hmm, nice idea < 1315053985 481044 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about befunge where both players appear to be 'above' the other's grid, and there's an instruction that drops a bomb < 1315053988 246802 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and destroys a symbol < 1315053993 83038 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you win by making the other guy hit an edge < 1315054014 144874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge doesn't really have edges, but I suppose you could surround the area with landmines or something < 1315054015 4721 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously most programs would be perfect grids of > on the left edge, < on the right edge, etc < 1315054023 562042 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might work < 1315054030 618890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be interesting unless you could read the enemy fungespace < 1315054035 348857 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, I'm already coming up with strategy :P < 1315054039 482931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as to get an idea about what the opponent was doing < 1315054051 123992 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but of course, you're limited by your own processing space < 1315054052 740845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: well, even something as basic as the rule of 9 took a while to come up with in BF Joust < 1315054058 384084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the offset clear was revolutionary < 1315054059 886900 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the read instuction take an x,y pair < 1315054063 112662 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it read under your 'reader' < 1315054067 478952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x,y pair < 1315054074 420777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, lunch < 1315054087 556499 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: you want viewing distance < 1315054088 122830 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1315054088 283107 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think funge is well-fitting enough, which is a shame < 1315054107 159469 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could shoe-horn a billion games into funge wars < 1315054113 882555 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bf joust really fits in nicely to BF < 1315054122 326853 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just adding machine architecture around the existing cpu < 1315054177 460210 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just had an idea like.. battle stations for bf joust, you put your program on a flash stick < 1315054183 383684 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and plug it into a machine with 2 usb ports < 1315054188 35189 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it battles them and says who wins < 1315054197 848461 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's called a really limited computer :P < 1315054200 691786 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you win some ELO < 1315054216 632617 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be like pokemans in real life, but with brainfuck :P < 1315054232 723282 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like the us needs an esolang event o.o < 1315054247 291697 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1315054250 642469 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like the US needs carpet bombing, what a strange difference in views < 1315054285 743585 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid, oh shut up. < 1315054289 241555 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grins < 1315054336 233430 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, too, think that the correct solution to a difference in political opinion or culture or whatever is mass murder. < 1315054336 579486 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that zid lives in the us < 1315054353 581288 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to live here to hate it that much < 1315054371 489862 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully, no < 1315054378 593256 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in little britain < 1315054393 622865 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want to carpet bomb the us again < 1315054409 714052 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :free carpets for EVERYBODY < 1315054481 544250 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1315054499 653541 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real reason is that their wallpaper is too ugly < 1315054519 476206 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure < 1315054521 252320 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust true_winner (-)*-1 < 1315054525 957443 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_true_winner: 11.7 < 1315054528 598944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1315054530 340166 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1315054531 174833 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1315054537 414803 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fingers were offset by one < 1315054546 549872 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is how stupid I am < 1315054554 439708 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even place my robot fingers properly :( < 1315054573 337797 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what led to the decision of making it two consecutive turns at 0 for the flag? more strategy? < 1315054583 954552 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315054648 901790 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think making it three consecutive turns would make it even more strategy < 1315054666 98241 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean stratelogical < 1315054669 819513 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten consecutive terms. < 1315054671 386059 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ist < 1315054677 545829 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns. < 1315054678 12389 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e. < 1315054702 675751 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ten turns and true winner will have its way < 1315054781 83498 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ten turns: shudder is automatic winner < 1315054814 844217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's shudder < 1315054842 114057 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(++-+-++-+++---+-++-)*-1 < 1315054854 320621 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1315054903 78487 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell it'd be hard to beat even with three turns, but once you can, everything becomes richer < 1315054908 870208 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka hard as hell < 1315055228 626643 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be more interested if bf joust used a fixed tape length I think < 1315055240 268720 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no < 1315055244 441696 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't think that through < 1315055257 712015 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315055300 909702 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315055482 232329 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1315055529 908449 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fixed tape with a wandering flag? < 1315055631 83748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: a three-turn wait allows triplocking on your own flag, which is AFAICT a broken strategy < 1315055899 786450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: wow true_winner gets a lot of ties < 1315055910 862781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's the program that lots of people have submitted < 1315055919 163414 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315055928 299881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember who called it you_spin_me_right_round, that was the best name for it I've seen < 1315055932 248370 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tying was the goal < 1315055995 355894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good antishudder clear will be able to beat it on both polarities; most programs will beat it on one < 1315056149 429908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%120 < 1315056155 137950 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 11.8 < 1315056158 197502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315056191 324330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<<(+)*-1}]<<(-)*-1)%120 < 1315056197 118465 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 9.0 < 1315056207 514928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like that particular cheap trick doesn't work any more < 1315056233 25819 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of cheap tricks, hi ais < 1315056246 152909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb me < 1315056248 548198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and hi zid) < 1315056256 274810 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went and made a snack < 1315056261 374908 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm watching minish cap < 1315056263 660699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40<(-)*33>>[]<([{<<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%120 < 1315056267 420345 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 3.0 < 1315056273 825375 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that one work then? < 1315056277 169363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have miscounted, I take it < 1315056297 252774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to be like true_winner/increase/you_spin_me_right_round/all the other names that have been used < 1315056306 544430 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that is < 1315056311 737673 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work? < 1315056311 897852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that it detects what polarity the opponent is using, and matches it < 1315056320 284985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, keep adjusting your flag in one direction < 1315056336 613257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opponent can only win by adjusting it the other way, otherwise it's either a draw or they fall off the end < 1315056341 333771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%120 < 1315056347 66212 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 11.8 < 1315056351 564065 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, my bot loses to 'falls off the end' < 1315056354 161012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /have/ got this the right way round, right? < 1315056356 650839 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I wrap the [-] in another loop < 1315056360 673363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(-)*-1}]<(+)*-1)%120 < 1315056365 362856 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 4.3 < 1315056369 834407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, definitely < 1315056404 233079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a way of wrapping loops to guarantee you can't fall off, let me try to rememebr it < 1315056405 701877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remember < 1315056414 131508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-[-]][-[-]], I think < 1315056432 71891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(-)*-1}]<(+)*-1)%130 < 1315056436 814909 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 6.7 < 1315056443 96550 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if your flag is 0 for a turn, then one bot +s it and one bot -s it, does that make a loss? < 1315056451 763860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(-)*-1}]<(+)*-1)%121 < 1315056453 942601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: yes < 1315056456 459175 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 5.7 < 1315056465 643026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise (+)*-1 would be unbeatable < 1315056470 505036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(-)*-1}]<(+)*-1)%118 < 1315056476 332662 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 5.2 < 1315056479 810342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(-)*-1}]<(+)*-1)%120 < 1315056484 431556 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 4.3 < 1315056485 80493 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or [+] ? < 1315056488 342761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, this is the backwards version < 1315056499 161185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: that wouldn't, you could beat it via going to the flag then (-)*-1 < 1315056509 147454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%130 < 1315056509 798135 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you could beat it by doing -- twice yea < 1315056514 878499 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 12.4 < 1315056519 853409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40>[]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%140 < 1315056525 578332 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 11.9 < 1315056530 746411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to not tweak constants, now I'm shameless about it < 1315056538 372755 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1315056543 604668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40<(-)*10>>[]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%130 < 1315056545 273972 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the theory is solid it should win regardless" ? < 1315056549 203153 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 15.1 < 1315056554 667643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that, turtles! < 1315056581 740967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's the principle < 1315056651 880659 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1315056656 287463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40<(-)*10>>([{(>)*6(>+++++[-.+-])*21}]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%130)%8000 < 1315056661 984132 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 15.4 < 1315056724 46794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40<(-)*10>>([{(>)*6(>+++++[-....])*21}]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%130)%8000 < 1315056729 893907 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 20.6 < 1315056740 65071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go, I think that's beating the defense programs < 1315056759 886845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40<(-)*10>>([{(>)*6(>+++++[-....])*21}]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%130)%80000 < 1315056765 532435 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 17.0 < 1315056770 195799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40<(-)*10>>([{(>)*6(>+++++[-....])*21}]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%130)%4000 < 1315056772 828550 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1315056777 863840 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 19.8 < 1315056786 909775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if two defense programs end up against each other, they do nothing forever, right? < 1315056790 725846 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get how that scores differently? < 1315056796 769950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you think that's happened, you go and use an anti-defense program < 1315056808 549538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the large number at the end is the number of cycles it waits before assuming defense < 1315056815 508271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40<(-)*10>>([{(>)*6(>+++++[-....])*21}]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%130)%12000 < 1315056815 831187 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1315056821 256402 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 19.0 < 1315056823 116325 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should figure it out! :D < 1315056827 411179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust polarity_spinner >>>(+)*6<+<(+)*40<(-)*10>>([{(>)*6(>+++++[-....])*21}]<([{<(+)*-1}]<(-)*-1)%130)%8000 < 1315056833 101130 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_polarity_spinner: 19.6 < 1315056833 261206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like I was right first time < 1315056839 659807 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :be cycle perfect on 0ing their flag ;) < 1315056859 778581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I tweaked waterfall3 to beat elliott_'s copy of it when he submitted a copy of it < 1315056873 654368 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :has fixed duration "highest value flag loses" been tried as a variant? < 1315056877 881842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :started attacking a couple of cycles sooner, and beat the clone of itself to the flag while not changing the result against anything < 1315056883 209400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: I don't think so < 1315056889 941648 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds interesting to me < 1315056895 60157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would falling off the end still be a loss? < 1315056909 659163 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1315056923 805972 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd just HALT you < 1315056923 965930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowest flag looses seems potentially more interesting, otherwise the optimal behaviour is clearly to just set the flag to 0 so the opponent can't tell where it is < 1315056931 873519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless, hmm, the opponent pokes you < 1315056938 782202 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer yours I think < 1315056946 432234 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do flags start at 0? < 1315056963 882930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in highest-wins, I don't see why not < 1315056968 443410 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds fun < 1315056984 816809 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd balance incing your own flag vs decing theirs < 1315056990 901789 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bobytraps of course < 1315057092 151128 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess (+)*128 would be the standard intro, rather than (>)*9 < 1315057108 953324 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could do +120 then rush their flag, to get their first < 1315057113 823996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[[>](>(-)*120[-])*-1])*-1 < 1315057115 92412 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there* < 1315057116 432554 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 15.6 < 1315057137 609892 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it has anything that just stops it working as a competitive thing < 1315057144 576038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I've made a program that mostly just beats my own programs < 1315057145 885622 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it's really easily solveable or something < 1315057176 330267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I really the only person using reverse decoy setup? < 1315057189 692441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd add that strategy to the strategies page if it were at all good, as I don't think it's there yet < 1315057263 369663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I clearly need a small offset before doing the reverse offset clear < 1315057288 511594 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY < 1315057298 184004 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have told you but I didn't want to ruin the surprise < 1315057314 203686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[[>]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[-]{}]]]]]]]])%29)*-1])*-1 < 1315057316 815032 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 0.0 < 1315057322 274102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that obviously doesn't compile < 1315057328 79870 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have a boog :P < 1315057338 106956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[[>]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[-]{}]]]]]]]])%29)*-1])*-1 < 1315057340 767702 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 0.0 < 1315057342 185262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[[>]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1])*-1 < 1315057344 982459 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 21.4 < 1315057350 373532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1315057375 178736 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit, you beat me by .3 < 1315057382 161217 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I 40th now? :P < 1315057385 271702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it's pushed you down from #39 < 1315057390 205401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you're 40th < 1315057420 109858 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything stopping you just submitting a program that does the same thing, but with different names, and maybe an unreachable statement to stop a string match? < 1315057454 309786 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they won't do well < 1315057469 197855 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1315057499 242808 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, programs draw against themselves < 1315057503 956967 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :win and lose against the same things < 1315057508 418573 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's basically just another draw < 1315057508 863909 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1315057512 335473 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it might work to flood the hill < 1315057515 26649 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's easily rerversible < 1315057530 168366 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the sniper for it will just end up beating it? < 1315057538 723142 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1315057542 98621 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might work for knocking people out of the list though < 1315057555 123011 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I put 40 waterfalls up, that *would* have gotten the top 40, the waterfall sniper will instead get #1 < 1315057563 426544 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if sniper would otherwise have been lower ranked < 1315057634 537380 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315057649 325680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1315057650 344045 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1315057654 882436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[[-[++[>]]]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1])*-1 < 1315057657 655576 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 18.7 < 1315057663 376350 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would manipulate first place but I can't be bothered :P < 1315057686 512210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about seeing your programs do well, rather than seeing programs you submitted do well < 1315057703 338345 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could get my bot #1 < 1315057705 192874 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I wrote < 1315057715 244065 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I flooded with bots that it beat that are higher scored against it < 1315057729 956454 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I write a bot to beat spam_poke, then submit 100 spam_pokes < 1315057742 62367 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the top 40 that would be spampoke, gets beaten by my bot that beats spam_poke < 1315057744 248711 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time < 1315057747 615904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you couldn't, the scoring system is designed to counteract that < 1315057750 723985 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool! < 1315057758 949600 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it do that? < 1315057765 72379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll find that the more duplicates of a program are submitted, the worse it tends to do < 1315057775 235752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because the same programs beat it each time < 1315057775 395952 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that also helps me though < 1315057780 287899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, anticipation beats slowpoke < 1315057781 700073 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submit *my* program once < 1315057788 315408 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and submit 30 copies of everything else < 1315057794 957628 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all get draws, I get 30 free wins from spampoke < 1315057795 785450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll climb in the rankings the more clones of anticipation are submitted < 1315057799 867066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that only counts for duplicates on the hill < 1315057807 295969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your clones will have trouble staying on the hill after a while < 1315057818 238074 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think there's some manipulation I could do, even if not for a guarenteed first < 1315057831 705952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that said, if a program beats the entire hill, like waterfall3 and slowpoke both did for a time, you can ruin the hill by spamming copies of it; someone actually did that and we had to revert the hill, it was a mess) < 1315057847 981117 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that someone was me hi < 1315057854 716841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[([-[++[>{}]]]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%29])*-1 < 1315057857 381412 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 15.4 < 1315057867 825709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I didn't expect that to do worse < 1315057870 777724 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :has bruteforce been tried < 1315057871 229508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :must just be that it's too slow < 1315057890 761958 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how quickly powers of 6 scale < 1315057922 260381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, aha, why is it reverse offset clearing a value -1 decoy? < 1315057941 923173 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, could I bruteforce all 10 character programs (no expansion stuff) < 1315057942 238029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evolutionary programming's been tried, but it didn't do all that well < 1315057946 28129 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not evolutionary < 1315057947 756381 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bruteforce < 1315057966 958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it isn't < 1315057989 424897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real problem's that I have a test backwards < 1315057996 197417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: possibly, but I suspect none would do well < 1315058085 219390 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame it runs so slowly < 1315058088 962682 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :need that brainfuck cpu < 1315058110 407983 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should learn how to make bfj in an fpga < 1315058121 779365 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8GHz clockrate gogo < 1315058181 66330 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just write the program that fights programs < 1315058264 164837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>((>[-[++[>([-[++[>{}]]]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%29]{}]])%29)*-1 < 1315058266 796388 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 10.9 < 1315058271 342010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1315058279 343563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean it does better with the test backwards? < 1315058314 129140 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :handling the expansion will suck :/ < 1315058337 724927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interp, just like most competitive interps, run rather faster than egojsout, which is more of a debugger < 1315058348 27632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimises expansion < 1315058358 77316 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you do complicated representations < 1315058362 667137 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use the string < 1315058371 589492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :complicated representations, of course < 1315058372 940616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[[>]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1])*-1 < 1315058374 564012 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the important thing is about expansions < 1315058375 666477 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 20.3 < 1315058376 977011 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have to go for complicated just to make the expansion easy < 1315058378 263728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are not a good format < 1315058390 483669 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just use a signed int for TTL < 1315058390 644446 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: we have well-established general algorithms for that < 1315058392 486869 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ask oerjan) < 1315058394 713142 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and <0 is infinite < 1315058399 482600 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: YES FUN! < 1315058401 87068 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LESS* < 1315058406 561148 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: ok, enjoy your slow interp < 1315058407 724150 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I accidently the wrong word entirely < 1315058410 569056 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck off :/ < 1315058453 150063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure I followed oerjan's algo < 1315058459 940418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I came up with basically the same thing independently < 1315058470 704716 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of basically a linked list < 1315058473 804525 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without it being linear < 1315058486 668068 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int command; with a couple of pointers to other nodes < 1315058491 518940 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the command is ] or whatever < 1315058499 403596 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and expansion gets an int ttl; < 1315058508 950625 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which takes a different node once ttl hits 0 < 1315058514 31732 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or is never decrement in the -1 case) < 1315058521 669193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's usual to have a linked list with the body of a loop connected in a different direction < 1315058524 427787 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it'd matter actually, it'd never hit -2billion before the counter expired < 1315058533 791327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you're describing is pretty much what juiced does internally < 1315058536 844793 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why this would be slow < 1315058543 837876 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: it's about () expansions < 1315058555 824093 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire speed is dependent on the fancy interpretations of those < 1315058569 980725 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just do some 'external' cheating for those I'm sure < 1315058586 494502 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean expanding ahead of time? < 1315058586 654449 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replace some flow control pointers < 1315058592 59376 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1315058594 299346 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to keep state. < 1315058608 180723 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expanding ahead of time would work easily of course < 1315058613 420569 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for the -1 case there's a cycle limit < 1315058614 274499 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't because you run out of memory. < 1315058617 278193 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And time. < 1315058618 476525 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't use more than 100KB or whatever < 1315058622 142988 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incorrect < 1315058634 741293 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right you can have any length thing inside () < 1315058638 511639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paths can be not taken as well as taken < 1315058644 160237 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plenty of programs blow up on any expanding interpreter < 1315058647 882409 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's 100k per () < 1315058648 42556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[[>]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1])*-1 < 1315058650 748874 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 20.5 < 1315058654 695898 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the cycle limit? < 1315058657 687150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, that's interesting < 1315058659 750386 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :100k. < 1315058661 604140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: 100000 in egojoust < 1315058664 650271 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the cycle limit is irrelevant. < 1315058666 971139 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in every joust < 1315058668 522475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's become a defacto standard as a result < 1315058671 416338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes < 1315058675 637379 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't it matter? < 1315058676 168990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's not irrelevant < 1315058686 120284 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I enter a () I can prove it won't be in there any more than 100k cycles < 1315058689 98518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :waterfall3 would hit it if I didn't change to a fast rush when it was at around cycle 96000 < 1315058691 233524 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I only need to expand it to a 100kB limit < 1315058703 80935 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I'm even doing it this way < 1315058707 310947 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying it's possible < 1315058710 924293 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and works fine < 1315058711 84964 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tell zid why pre-expansion doesn't work, I'm too busy < 1315058723 421519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: you can have masses of nested loops < 1315058730 974726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[[>]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*116[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1])*-1 < 1315058733 615367 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 20.5 < 1315058742 204423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know that tweaking /that/ constant doesn't matter < 1315058753 227530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing to the three-cycle clear makes it beat space_elevator, interestingly enough < 1315058754 891281 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 116-120 both work fine < 1315058759 400351 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 114 is way better :P < 1315058800 925912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what command are you supposed to run after hg pull (if any)? I've forgotten < 1315058807 750401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hg update < 1315058807 910389 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses git < 1315058809 28691 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg update or hg merge < 1315058857 733702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: I know; there's an hg repo of the egojoust competitors, though, and I wanted to update it < 1315058872 247952 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to say "no idea" < 1315058877 986308 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way that'd also give some context why < 1315058892 575750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can do hg pull -u iirc to do the hg up automatically < 1315058909 944267 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tape itself has a random length from 135 to 167 elements; isn't it 10-35? < 1315058918 26478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10-30 < 1315058923 971179 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: you're reading an old document < 1315058931 19153 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about G.'s version < 1315058931 890079 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone linked me it and told me to read it (stares at ais) < 1315058934 966188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be much longer, but shorter tapes were more interesting < 1315058941 812036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: that was elliott_ who linked you to it, not me < 1315058950 486261 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the staring worked regardless :D < 1315058952 602024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares at elliott_ < 1315058957 71823 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxy staring! < 1315058960 610212 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, what did I link? < 1315058964 251118 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=BF_Joust&oldid=21108 < 1315058968 875014 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that explains the new version later on < 1315059024 313096 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody doing [ or ] has presendence over someone doing + or - is all I really need to know about regarding synchrroniziging? < 1315059033 292987 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spels gud < 1315059043 958619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine >>>>(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%5])*-1 < 1315059046 685813 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 22.2 < 1315059053 810068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: pretty much, it's the only case where there can be a contradictoin < 1315059060 208180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ambiguity < 1315059067 626627 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :22.2, you MONSTER < 1315059112 361879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that little change worked wonders against quite a few programs < 1315059116 776408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did nothing at all against most of the others < 1315059125 408669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it might look like a big change, but I just duplicated the clear loop) < 1315059192 927987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does really well at the start of the alphabet, but then is beaten horrifficaly by myndzi's programs < 1315059200 878303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me put an antiturtle in there and see how much difference it makes < 1315059208 950749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9>>>>(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%5])*-1 < 1315059211 482724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect it to do worse < 1315059211 642958 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 28.5 < 1315059213 6170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know < 1315059214 806025 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315059216 706353 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONSTER KILL < 1315059216 866417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I was wrong < 1315059242 9604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess I can't disregard turtles after all < 1315059264 942416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only seems to really hurt against anticipation < 1315059275 605587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still beats that, just not by as much < 1315059380 641478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9>>>>>>(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%5])*-1 < 1315059383 368745 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 24.7 < 1315059387 885525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9>>>>>(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%5])*-1 < 1315059390 489467 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 27.1 < 1315059395 730139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9>>>(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%5])*-1 < 1315059398 543049 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 29.8 < 1315059403 480559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9>>(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%5])*-1 < 1315059406 102920 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 30.8 < 1315059410 402761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9>(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%5])*-1 < 1315059413 65685 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 31.4 < 1315059417 984946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%5])*-1 < 1315059420 687629 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 31.9 < 1315059424 412746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, come /on/ < 1315059429 963597 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315059430 577665 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs ais523 in the winningness < 1315059441 479547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: I was expecting the opposite pattern :) < 1315059450 174181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative >s seems to be a bad idea, though < 1315059485 952102 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : (+)*9(> <-- I found one you can remove here < 1315059502 240107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: indeed, but that would cause it to detect its own flag as an enemy decoy < 1315059534 102693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this is conclusive evidence that at least one program does not benefit from rule of 9 < 1315059564 975074 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it isn't using it is it < 1315059572 495332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else figured out the principle I'm using there? < 1315059574 923749 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315059577 492536 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule of 99 < 1315059593 274006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: no; the longest used there is a rule of 7, and reducing it all the way, eventually to a rule of 1, helped every time < 1315059625 135989 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule of 9 only helps if you're not trying to trap your flag < 1315059629 724353 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why would rule of 9 always be good? < 1315059642 489641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when attacking, it basically means you don't waste time clearing enemy decoys < 1315059654 496912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :defensive programs use rule of 9 only when they switch to an attack loop, like a full-tape clear < 1315059659 718527 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks of a good way to handle the square bracket detection < 1315059660 527643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that program, though, is looking for enemy decoys < 1315059667 746325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, it's looking for a reverse decoy setup < 1315059676 262435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it goes forwards until there's a cell on which there /isn't/ a decoy < 1315059689 924801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it goes forwards again until it finds a nonzero cell, and if it isn't small-valued assumes it's a flag < 1315059714 25616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it find more than five "decoys" in a row, it assumes it's facing a trail rather than a reverse decoy setup, and changes tactics to ones that beat trailing programs < 1315059745 545732 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it uses a 3-cycle reverse offset clear at the end, because some programs try to defend against fast rushes using a 2-cycle lock < 1315059760 684187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suppose this is an evolution of tripwire_avoider and of fast_rush_slow_clear < 1315059798 257645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, so far I've got it up to between the two wirelesses < 1315059804 15438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone notice any more obvious improvements? < 1315059813 520235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll run it through the constant tweaker, just in case it helps < 1315059820 150829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember how the constant tweaker works < 1315059856 954538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, flag tweakable constants as ##CONSTANT5## rather than 5 < 1315059871 264091 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : if((p1c == '[' || p1c == ']') && (p2c == '+' || p2c == '-')) < 1315059871 424133 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : p1_first(&p1, &p2); < 1315059871 587976 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1315059871 588260 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : p2_first(&p1, &p2); < 1315059877 228440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, that's internal < 1315059877 985051 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you think of anything that would break that < 1315059878 951225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just suffix t < 1315059880 813959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll do that < 1315059902 696323 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1315059903 208765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: no < 1315060038 409695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%4])*-1 < 1315060041 348203 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 27.7 < 1315060044 888457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%6])*-1 < 1315060047 615045 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 31.2 < 1315060051 998437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%7])*-1 < 1315060054 774142 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 28.5 < 1315060060 460081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*10(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%6])*-1 < 1315060063 276446 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 31.5 < 1315060069 214846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%6])*-1 < 1315060072 4084 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 33.9 < 1315060076 593907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*12(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%6])*-1 < 1315060079 270509 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 34.0 < 1315060084 360649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably this is catching out some of the turtles < 1315060092 998693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while also giving the opponent more time to get into the meat of its decoy setup < 1315060193 718067 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh piss off gcc < 1315060199 835771 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to test if this inlines well or not < 1315060224 146618 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it sure does, my entire program compiles to push ebp / xor eax, eax / mov ebp, esp / pop ebp / ret < 1315060261 944946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*6(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060264 619885 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 35.9 < 1315060268 554952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks tweaker! < 1315060280 557314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*6(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%3])*-1 < 1315060283 265174 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 27.7 < 1315060283 425046 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/ABjrTpw8 < 1315060289 644794 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it amazes me that gcc can compile that down to xor eax, eax < 1315060289 804821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*5(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060292 548310 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 38.8 < 1315060297 924914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1315060326 863327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*0(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060329 527160 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 32.1 < 1315060333 471237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*4(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060336 162178 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 35.2 < 1315060342 387715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*5(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060345 139687 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 38.8 < 1315060348 538161 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes an off-by one in the cycle count < 1315060350 34872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be a sweet spot there < 1315060376 774301 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write the little compiler thing < 1315060388 370595 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that generates the flow control linked-list bastard thing < 1315060388 559490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*12(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060391 282383 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 35.4 < 1315060415 607195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so either I can do well against quintopia, or I can do well against myndzi < 1315060421 315717 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the record file keep the best score or the most recent one < 1315060448 488816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most recent for each program < 1315060458 473787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can delete a program by replacing it with < < 1315060486 180291 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :< would increase my score ;) < 1315060491 530389 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lazy . < 1315060494 309563 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for monqy_lazy: 6.6 < 1315060497 619478 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooooo < 1315060521 118067 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I won against suicides or something? < 1315060537 71928 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :() without a * is valid but does nothing? < 1315060547 250936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*12(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%6])*-1 < 1315060549 871005 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 34.0 < 1315060564 231871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*12(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060566 954213 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 35.4 < 1315060573 157525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*10(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060575 848078 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 35.0 < 1315060580 927324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060583 824819 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 38.7 < 1315060632 544986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: it's invalid < 1315060638 416914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*6(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060641 85826 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 35.9 < 1315060644 523536 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that saves me some trouble then < 1315060648 891690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*13(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060651 583224 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 39.1 < 1315060660 992327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't expecting /that/ < 1315060664 239001 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's all this then < 1315060668 646857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck joust < 1315060673 459773 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais == dirty cheater < 1315060688 617778 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wash myself < 1315060697 62341 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a dirty version of you < 1315060698 622678 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to get unfriendly < 1315060703 531866 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1315060706 763244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*14(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060708 265560 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, you don't have servants to do it for you? < 1315060709 449326 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 34.1 < 1315060709 890194 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does undermine do? the bracket patterns look sort of like something I was trying to write but then gave up < 1315060716 606572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 seems to hit a sweet spot < 1315060723 811264 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, that was the royal I. < 1315060726 518252 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, the state. < 1315060726 682919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because it gets a flawless victory against FFLDG for reasons I don't fully understand < 1315060733 418700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*15(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060736 223029 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 37.6 < 1315060742 667544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*16(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060747 905203 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 32.8 < 1315060761 562913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*12>+([([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2]>)*-1 < 1315060765 748229 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 25.3 < 1315060773 909816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, obviously < 1315060781 241233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*12>+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060783 984427 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 36.6 < 1315060792 101639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060794 863421 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 40.8 < 1315060797 704695 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1315060808 645691 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no seriously, what the hell is this < 1315060810 331333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a difference a decoy can make, eh? < 1315060813 374500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: brainfuck joust < 1315060816 942416 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said that < 1315060818 141925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust < 1315060825 350148 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1315060844 330968 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had some good language/game ideas < 1315060847 160291 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/ghmwa5G1 < 1315060852 941772 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically v0.1a of my struct < 1315060859 52413 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :command is + or - etc < 1315060893 785151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%3])*-1 < 1315060896 409727 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 30.6 < 1315060927 699014 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every turn decrements count, if count is 0 you take next_paren, otherwise next_instruction, next_bracket is if your [ or ] executes a jump < 1315060933 422941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, changing it to %3 suddently caused it to lose to loads of things < 1315060935 998363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315060938 655245 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 40.8 < 1315060945 205161 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1315060950 49909 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work I hope < 1315060960 224754 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think ais, or will that break your concentration < 1315060972 275707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's similar to what I'm doing in juiced < 1315060980 525595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't checked to see if you've got the details right < 1315060987 30476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you've got the general principle right < 1315061003 924269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, now it's eighth < 1315061008 596951 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How I'm going to free this I have no idea :P < 1315061013 198846 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just won't ;) < 1315061014 123616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hitting slightly above 50% < 1315061128 853258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to add the strategy to the wiki, I guess < 1315061606 229560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and added < 1315061639 808143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it loses to simple with all 42 combinations < 1315061651 481019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not surprised by that at all, simple doesn't use a reverse decoy setup < 1315061682 85277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much all BF Joust strategies recently have been "find something that opponents do consistently, then work out how to exploit it" < 1315061765 237359 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is probably obvious and cliché but: has anyone tried evolving bfjoust players, and if so how did it work out? < 1315061783 577593 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1315061784 515311 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1315061787 708691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: they have, and not massively well < 1315061801 983042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes use an evolutionary algorithm to tweak constants < 1315061810 292874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>+>+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315061812 947752 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 40.5 < 1315061818 992522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>+>++(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315061821 775054 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 36.5 < 1315061826 781946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>->+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315061829 551240 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 38.9 < 1315061836 193698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>-->(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315061838 930204 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 39.5 < 1315061843 681378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>--(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315061846 385927 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 35.3 < 1315061864 929234 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds pretty much perfect < 1315061866 46516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*10>->+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315061868 797418 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 34.0 < 1315061869 691681 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :find the optimal value in a local minima < 1315061874 176144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*9>->+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315061877 37025 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 38.0 < 1315061889 523777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine (+)*11>+(>[([>{((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1}]((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1)%2])*-1 < 1315061892 186252 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_undermine: 40.8 < 1315061922 268208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what could be interesting: a program that went through all the games by a particular program, highlighting commands by the win percentage when that command ran < 1315061927 339767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you know which codepaths you tend to be in when losing < 1315062189 559049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, that might be an interesting way to evolve a program < 1315062198 863132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :codepaths with more of a tendency to lose get mutated more < 1315062435 697743 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't really help I don't think < 1315062440 256793 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd still get stuck in a minima somewhere < 1315062473 601188 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GA seems great at perfecting tactics < 1315062477 17670 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but poor for strategy < 1315062564 383771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1315062984 916839 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1315063304 745017 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi nys < 1315063317 109895 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi...? < 1315063348 58316 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a channel about programming < 1315063354 603885 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1315063366 716361 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1315063373 167549 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go by the name Twistle on the wiki .-. < 1315063403 361103 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, most people come here looking for the other kind of esoteric < 1315063407 936805 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :b[9<<20],*a=b;main(){while(scanf("%d",a++)>0);for(a=b;*a;)a+=(a[*a]-=a[a[1]])?3:a[2];while(*++a)putchar(*a);} // 109 < 1315063408 197486 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315063416 798150 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1315063428 432990 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you invented itflabtijtslwi? cool! < 1315063437 607415 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1315063470 457824 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's pretty simples < 1315063472 835739 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simple < 1315063480 625810 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than thue :P < 1315063501 49459 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315063504 805346 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought /// was a beautifully simple language that lacked input < 1315063561 352573 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I put in an arbitrary construct :< < 1315063576 246823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an incredibly arbitrary construct < 1315063587 83225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, that's what eso's about < 1315063623 875849 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty nice input mechanism for /// < 1315063626 775959 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, now that I think about it, I should have made it even more arbitrary < 1315063631 760162 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps modulo the characters used but you can solve that with /// :) < 1315063639 14815 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like INOUTOOPSIMEANTINPUT < 1315063694 61591 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a fun construct < 1315063785 583589 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I also made this --> http://esolangs.org/wiki/TRUE <-- and went on here afterwards, someone told me it would be turing complete if I added a queue instead of a stack, so that's what I did ^^ < 1315064307 947800 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315064330 883131 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is unimplemented < 1315064337 134139 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wink* < 1315064372 300151 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.228.192 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315064374 958414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1315064705 866678 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm hm hm ... 109 is pretty good :P < 1315064718 921791 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Short enough for RT @CaptainHats 109B interp: < 1315064761 385159 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315064782 264093 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program i am trying to automate with pexpect is running /usr/bin/pager (full path). i want it to run cat at that point. can i hack it with some non-portable trickery? < 1315064798 520835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s /bin/cat /usr/bin/pager < 1315064813 18848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I assume he means without overwriting /usr/bin < 1315064837 717892 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, elliott is obviously trolling < 1315064863 348837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: you could use a chroot; that's reasonably portable, but annoying to set up < 1315064863 509120 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, elliott's was perfectly portable < 1315064884 474392 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, most pagers won't page if the output isn't a TTY. < 1315064887 698283 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it shouldn't be an issue. < 1315064892 92769 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah < 1315064894 943406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a nonportable method, you could hook whatever exec variant it was using in the library with LD_LIBRARY_PATH < 1315064903 907481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the output is a pty, cheater's using pexpect < 1315064929 513516 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1315064939 243986 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does pexpect use a pty :P < 1315064940 973781 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if i can control pager (which is less here) not to page at all < 1315064944 503846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: telnet < 1315064948 558737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: because that's the whole point < 1315064960 866268 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in that case, you could run the command as whateverlol | cat < 1315064963 638345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't need a pty, you wouldn't need something pexpect-style at all < 1315065001 804598 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Depends on what you're testing *shrugs* < 1315065025 334605 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you're testing something interactive and you have the pty anyway, why not just send a 'Q' to the pager? < 1315065157 863789 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315065570 928809 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1315067164 389955 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1315067320 563365 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops the https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet guys accidentally forgot to mention clue :o well, no one's perfect i guess < 1315067418 925057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1315067426 442584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: you made a _fatal error_ < 1315067483 57807 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all clue is probably the only esolang that has a theme song < 1315067522 746677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: now I'm audializing that hello world program I wrote in Fugue < 1315067533 626035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: link < 1315067597 84834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that list of esolangs there is bizarre < 1315067609 92635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I can't figure out what the basis behind inclusion/exclusion is < 1315067621 936355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what we told them about, mostly < 1315067622 96274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm particularly surprised to see ABCDXYZ there, for instance < 1315067628 517801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's because you said "all of mine" < 1315067634 116513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I? < 1315067636 525048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :D < 1315067638 219573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, not all of mine are there < 1315067640 751724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, or words to that effect < 1315067651 655500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::≠ isn't, for instance, and it's part of the same group as BackFlip and ABCDXYZ < 1315067657 81516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yay compose key) < 1315067668 908113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, clue is such a great language < 1315067672 969936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is Feather, but that is undoubtedly the correct choice < 1315067674 491578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which one? < 1315067678 94418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oklopol's < 1315067692 774835 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk should probably < 1315067695 984954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really love how it looks so obvious and intuitive but writing it is basically a process of brute force < 1315067702 653620 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :be there even though it doesn't exist < 1315067744 296705 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes clue is pretty fucking elegant < 1315067758 602526 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder when i make clue2 < 1315067774 851908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you possibly improve, I mean apart from including the function list < 1315067788 718994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could just bruteforce with all permutations of all defined functions, using inferred type information to order the search < 1315067794 466294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in "this function uses lists let's look at list functions first") < 1315067801 764029 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a minor change to branching and types. < 1315067804 802528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would only be about a hundred times slower and be about three times as elegant < 1315067823 760579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hard to get more elegant than "function ~ {inputs -> outputs}" :P < 1315067826 839755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean maybe the recursion stuff < 1315067835 741883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did it higher order maybe you could just include fix and remove the recursion stuff :P < 1315067865 770474 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyyyeah i'm sure you could somehow remove the main idea of clue < 1315067880 508388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it would be great :-P < 1315067886 263360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main ideas, schmain ideas < 1315067907 213146 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it would then be the thing everyone's invented that's impossible to implement < 1315067949 125781 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey wtf is just realized graphica is not on that list :D hahaha < 1315067952 345287 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1315067953 28095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it depends how good your "type inference is". it still contins the original idea of thue, it's just about guessing the list for you. if you used like theorems for free you might be able to get a far way < 1315067953 521201 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315067955 382963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of :P < 1315067970 650189 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1315067978 93052 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i totally agree with you < 1315067989 432739 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :most agreeable nonsense i heard all day < 1315067991 462625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's kind of the same idea as djinn. only not, but < 1315068011 638886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theorems for free was wrt http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.38.9875 < 1315068067 393299 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what that has to do with anything though < 1315068140 928515 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to go now though, anyway that sounds like an article i should read < 1315068184 730577 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also toi seems to be lacking < 1315068192 26959 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1315068216 607824 :oklopol!~kvirc@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's the awesome < 1315068897 772470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko! < 1315071126 796407 :jix_!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315071126 994353 :jix_!jix@tomakin.h-ix.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1315072726 748663 :Slereah!x@ANantes-259-1-255-27.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315072751 208244 :GuestIceKovu!x@ANantes-259-1-184-136.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1315072954 17145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315074858 50079 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315075008 60362 :cheater!~ubuntu@ip-80-226-24-3.vodafone-net.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315075402 243098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315075720 707264 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315075888 407281 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132D51.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315076458 165739 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm awake! < 1315076469 505367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not < 1315076476 286509 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets a marker pen < 1315076623 497539 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1315076702 397224 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315077087 142082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has there been much hill movement since I've been gone? < 1315077100 507838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty astonished that I managed to drive a new strategy to #8 in just a day, really < 1315077121 362861 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :It is the 90s and there is time for Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1315077129 734693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: none < 1315077143 928305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1315077323 341201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what did you change? < 1315077332 305654 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: YOU WILL NEVER KNOW < 1315077354 86129 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it did comply with a request by elliott in the logs < 1315077361 818722 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Added the 12345678 < 1315077361 978774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1315077377 810776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is the first link in the topic about < 1315077386 673618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :google translate claims the url is invalid.. (?) < 1315077411 179838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe it doesn't handle https < 1315077412 731927 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Finnish-language paragraph there is followed by the equivalent in English < 1315077424 746491 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the URL itself is preceded by an explanation in the /topic < 1315077427 498357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1315077468 179084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes that is what made me curious < 1315077494 228996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't get the things about the 90s though < 1315077497 369186 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying that it answers your "what is it about" < 1315077506 875631 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an addition of Phantom_Hoover's < 1315077521 435993 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whut? < 1315077523 37811 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original was just "Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011" < 1315077525 161440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1315077642 810432 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hint, you can frequently detect memes by typing the phrase into google and looking at the suggestions coming up. at least that's what i did for that thing in the topic. < 1315077668 366995 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens at an esolang event < 1315077682 621632 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid: horrible brain-twisting stuff < 1315077708 147634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1315077916 887204 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why would you be doing haskell at an esoland event? O_o < 1315078087 270211 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to implement esolangs in, of course < 1315078120 9559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the event in Finnish? or English? < 1315078128 106028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if English, I want to see slides/recordings when it's done < 1315078146 939758 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should send me to finland as your envoy < 1315078148 212098 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably Finnish if everybody present understands Finnish, otherwise English < 1315078152 409862 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's typical < 1315078180 875140 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be planned as dual finnish-english, which will be completely ruined when some prick insists that they must include swedish and there isn't time for that. < 1315078190 146387 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it usually goes in finland, i think. < 1315078203 35424 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then a norwegian will show up and call everybody uncultured < 1315078204 148567 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that there's no prick < 1315078214 879220 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't run into such, anyway < 1315078221 694332 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a .no prick :P < 1315078275 18117 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've gotten one (1) report in Swedish out of about maybe a hundred and fifty (~150) that I've graded for the AI course. And I don't think they really *insisted* on being able to do it in Swedish. < 1315078316 861523 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315078329 771486 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1315078363 790306 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack would be a good AI thesis < 1315078378 55457 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am extuingished¬ < 1315078446 932339 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall that a NetHack bot was one on the "suggestions for a project topic" list of the Prolog course. < 1315078452 132714 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if anyone ever did it. < 1315078474 408061 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is nethack is quite inaccessable for a bot < 1315078485 478417 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone wrote api hooks for starcraft < 1315078489 727761 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could possibly interface with some of the existing frameworks. < 1315078508 645557 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a starcraft AI competition too < 1315078513 103304 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAEB or something. < 1315078518 624745 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a strange and crazy idea during my extuinguisment < 1315078553 599861 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Non-Minimalistic OISC < 1315078621 109288 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doable? Probably < 1315078626 530319 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likeable? Probably not < 1315078647 509242 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes the entire point of a OISC and rips it from the concept < 1315078858 874054 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I have once designed a schematic diagram for a processor that has only a transfer register to register and jump instruction, although it has a lot of registers with different functions. One of the registers is XORed with the jump destination to determine the actual address of the next instruction. < 1315078921 486922 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor linked lists are there it's at < 1315078951 171016 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I can't think, or type < 1315079141 917615 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : and then a norwegian will show up and call everybody uncultured <-- that is not afaik the common national stereotype at _all_, if anything it's we norwegians who are considered uncultured. < 1315079168 94107 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the swedes, at least) < 1315079236 348636 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reverse :P < 1315079255 782383 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're really lucky, you can find someone from iceland to look down on all of them! < 1315079266 13296 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who then gets ran out of town < 1315079289 656118 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : A Non-Minimalistic OISC <-- add the first argument to the product of the second and third argument, store into the address of the fourth argument, jump to the label in the fifth argument if result negative, the sixth if prime. < 1315079310 568747 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *subtract the first argument from < 1315079319 254502 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought iceland was the comic relief country of scandinavia < 1315079347 479555 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if you believe satw, they all are. < 1315079394 894768 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iceland is your weird uncle < 1315079410 775077 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old hákarl < 1315079412 944014 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure which uncle is my weird uncle < 1315079417 683272 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315079421 406197 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1315079428 979595 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20: The one who didn't molest you < 1315079431 721057 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some real microcontroller where all functional units are memory-mapped < 1315079443 775974 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to add numbers you mov them to the ALU < 1315079470 445535 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to build such thing < 1315079476 533890 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im really starting to miss the wonderful meals i had to eat at family gatherings growingup < 1315079483 679951 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :all manner of wonderful salads and cakes < 1315079487 917540 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even wrote an emulator < 1315079496 244582 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :plates with 3 salads and 4 kinds of meat < 1315079510 619664 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 3 kinds of cake < 1315079600 181179 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four whole kinds of meat! < 1315079613 942178 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just pulling figures out of the air < 1315079628 360400 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but turkey, pork, beef, i dunno < 1315079637 493053 :mauke!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1315079640 534883 :mauke_!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke JOIN :#esoteric < 1315079643 208280 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new kind of meat. < 1315079688 572865 :mauke_!~mauke@p3m/member/mauke NICK :mauke < 1315079713 33844 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so so hungry < 1315079764 292083 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1315079774 577757 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not that hungry < 1315079779 989171 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315079784 720127 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A word of advice: < 1315079787 259386 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't. < 1315079810 791340 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1315079813 898054 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't become a cannibal? < 1315079827 261466 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I meant to say before I remembered the kind of people that frequent this channel, myself included: < 1315079851 378306 :itidus20!~itidus20@CPE-60-224-1-106.srql1.win.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^just kididng < 1315079859 859077 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have a two lists of thousands of floats in Python. < 1315079869 853403 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you do, close it as soon as possible. < 1315079893 499503 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you don't, turn off your computer < 1315079917 759969 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you don't do that in time, don't decide to switch OS half way through the recovery process < 1315079921 746583 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can be simplfied to: Don't have python < 1315079938 727547 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you do, make sure you know who to call. < 1315079943 987653 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghostbusters < 1315079976 401922 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF Joust is a finite-state automaton < 1315079991 503653 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant but true < 1315080017 933717 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the Monad class in Haskell ought to be defined that it requires to be also a Functor and that join is a member of Monad, and that you can define in terms of unit/join/fmap or return/bind and it does the other way by itself? < 1315080058 13335 :nooga!~nooga@95.108.116.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1315080089 425246 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want Functor < Pointed < Applicative < Monad < 1315080097 383561 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each one adds only one method < 1315080115 527130 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell needs a bit more work to be a good esoland, it's almost there < 1315080141 792484 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: making it also a Functor is discussed all the time, but it requires changing the class system to be backwards compatible < 1315080325 184422 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catching up on the IWC I've missed < 1315080326 98836 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: someone pointed out (heh) that Pointed perhaps should not be a subclass of Functor < 1315080329 240969 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like 3131 < 1315080332 293193 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 3132 < 1315080512 252647 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, 3140 is good < 1315080537 841836 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 3141 < 1315080647 773053 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, the list monad makes more sense when defined in terms of unit/join/fmap. < 1315081041 98792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably they should allow something like this: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/User:Zzo38/Proposal_about_classes < 1315081075 936952 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now seem to be on a binge of the Popcorn instrumental < 1315081149 99432 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315081205 955775 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: see http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Superclass_defaults < 1315081308 713865 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm listening to the third version of the tune tonight < 1315081508 752435 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hot Butter's version became the first primarily electronic-based piece of music to reach the American popular music charts, peaking at number nine on the Billboard Pop Singles and number four on the Adult Contemporary Chart." < 1315081538 754522 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the one < 1315081805 49737 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just watched the one by the group fronted by that annoying anaatomically hypercorrect amphibian < 1315081947 370623 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anatomically hypercorrect? < 1315081968 500539 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wants your love < 1315082010 488891 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, these subtitles are quite bad < 1315082074 609904 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In the absolute opposite way that Ken dolls are incorrect < 1315082092 334912 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right. < 1315082122 224738 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypercorrect as in not correct at all < 1315082146 216812 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypercorrect as in taking a common error and correcting it where it wasn't wrong < 1315082149 913030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I put all proposal in subpage of http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/User:Zzo38 and added the wiki categories for proposals, and See Also for link to other articles such as "Superclass defaults" article. < 1315082189 363752 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The uncle of the functional disability of how serious it?" < 1315082198 565810 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frikkin family computer < 1315082203 636908 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE is default browser < 1315082215 341592 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I clicked that link without thinking < 1315082243 805053 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect zzo38's links are rather harmless. < 1315082256 639834 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IE isn't < 1315082274 913080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially on a slow machine < 1315082291 945059 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315082317 894031 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn Haskell. < 1315082327 202233 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes you do. < 1315082329 398504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn it now. < 1315082330 921930 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't, but I would really like to < 1315082332 102441 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drop everything. < 1315082338 966740 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you need to. < 1315082346 449367 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaargh! < 1315082363 77469 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have any question/comment/complaint about those articles, you can write it directly on those pages or on talk pages. You can also write on IRC, too. < 1315082370 351848 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never tell me to drop everything < 1315082457 534109 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the phraase. < 1315082466 405790 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Never tell me to drop everything <-- Taneb is genetically engineered to follow orders literally < 1315082489 94324 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I will be Arby < 1315082546 49206 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Springs, I was A leaf springs" < 1315082583 650957 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will file it together with "never damn ais523" < 1315082595 912012 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've probably google translate'd the chinese subtitles ... I think leaf and springs are supposed to be names < 1315082610 979463 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Arby < 1315082676 441905 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(scanl(+)0.(1:)) < 1315082678 166630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946... < 1315082769 823670 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix(scanl(+)1.(1:)) < 1315082771 580279 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,177... < 1315082775 297650 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a phonetic pun, that's what < 1315082824 586194 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it even when carefully not pronouncing the r < 1315082845 966666 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the r should be there < 1315082851 721658 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try quicker < 1315082855 687530 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're english! < 1315082874 737522 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pun's multidialectal! < 1315082899 644067 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sulks in the corner < 1315082911 604840 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be Arby < 1315082916 774432 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :B R B < 1315082926 780151 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Taneb -----### < 1315082967 431941 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, before I even knew of the existence of the wiki, I wrote a draft spec for Ook!++ < 1315082981 846671 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It introduced the keyworkd Eek < 1315082998 558196 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume it had extended library support < 1315083011 196645 :hiato!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1315083011 360152 :hiato!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za QUIT :Client Quit < 1315083022 925867 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was back when I sucked even more at programming < 1315083032 436368 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had barely heard of brainfuck < 1315083050 108065 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even think I had heard of C < 1315083082 968959 :azaq231!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1315083181 847194 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would have been a good thing, except... < 1315083207 130840 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE SCUM < 1315083223 79814 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WASN'T A BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE < 1315083235 152972 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WAS AN OOK! EXTENSION < 1315083236 819557 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck second derivative? < 1315083237 111906 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315083254 450193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE SQUARED < 1315083257 483003 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN WORSE < 1315083297 379886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a BF derivative that just reverses the commands < 1315083300 594287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then reverse the commands again < 1315083307 243379 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let b be the goodness of a brainduck derivative < 1315083318 776907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :has the name "brainduck" been used yet? < 1315083320 979372 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By duck I probably mean fucj < 1315083321 319891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe it hasn't < 1315083334 858383 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My fingers don't seem to want to swear < 1315083341 963768 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I mean < 1315083364 336562 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is obviously very lo < 1315083365 14653 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1315083388 539381 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is negative, b ^2 is positive < 1315083422 539616 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we need a measure of goodness < 1315083423 44221 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://duckduckgo.com/?q=brainduck < 1315083445 241348 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodness is measured in terms of number of Perl-like syntax constructs. < 1315083456 337272 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest the theresa, defined as a Hellen/metres squared < 1315083528 3048 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about... encephalerotitons? < 1315083529 146251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1315083534 767730 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1315083545 120940 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132D51.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941] < 1315083559 243319 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep hearing about a Java thing called Spring, and I can only assume it's an enterprisey version of what Newspeak does naturally < 1315083603 416121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1315083632 137898 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pchat-irc.com/blog/ wow < 1315083720 448211 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: some people will claim the theresa has been ...wrongly measured. < 1315083734 174700 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1315083740 734314 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People claim the same of the kilogram < 1315083758 45524 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the meter < 1315083777 646200 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, the measure was fine, then someone made a calculation error < 1315083899 502040 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'VE GOT AN ADVERT AND I DO NOT KNOW WHERE FROM < 1315083922 402554 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Found it < 1315083969 496883 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason youtube keeps recommending shitty MSPA fan videos. < 1315084029 269860 :zid!funny@cpc22-pete9-2-0-cust66.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft.. penis.. analysis? < 1315084051 869219 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which conclusion to leap to here < 1315084284 61206 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just check the penal code < 1315084641 953969 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zid, Microsoft Paint Adventures < 1315084650 699901 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, there are shitty MSPA fan videos? < 1315084660 933235 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them are good! < 1315084664 577817 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is clearly insane < 1315084678 899979 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as Caledfwlch < 1315084681 774173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logreading elliott proceeds to complain about this at length to me. < 1315084715 61657 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they are all bad everyone has huge troll boners. < 1315084945 66847 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I write Huffman program good? Is anything missing that I should add? < 1315084956 282354 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, wait < 1315084958 473316 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen < 1315084964 216438 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :John & Dave Play Sburb < 1315084966 943533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1315084969 300380 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the best < 1315084981 170989 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I really intended it for using with GHCi, although you can modify it to make a compiled program too if you like to do that) < 1315085030 732376 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have not < 1315085054 660819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, watch it < 1315085056 201313 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1315085062 119845 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep < 1315085068 58375 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are bad < 1315085150 115599 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kinds do you think Haskell ought to have? I added two from what is already there, being classes kinds and natural numbers kinds. < 1315085189 210771 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/User:Zzo38/Proposal_for_additional_kinds < 1315085240 258319 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x] -- If x is a kind, [x] is the kind of classes of types of kind x < 1315085240 421722 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION quickly joins #haskell to watch < 1315085243 670563 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean. < 1315085263 713943 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the example, will it help? < 1315085267 769489 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: both of those are being implemented already < 1315085272 241688 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noepI don't see how typeclasses fit into kinds. < 1315085321 314609 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [String] -> String < 1315085321 665193 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude unlines :: [String] -> String < 1315085321 828933 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude unwords :: [String] -> String < 1315085321 829123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List unlines :: [String] -> String < 1315085326 88989 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [String] -> String -> String < 1315085326 387806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List intercalate :: [a] -> [[a]] -> [a] < 1315085326 551259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.FilePath.Posix (<.>) :: FilePath -> String -> FilePath < 1315085326 551378 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.FilePath.Windows (<.>) :: FilePath -> String -> FilePath < 1315085329 611485 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: although I'm not sure why you have a special construct for classes < 1315085332 146348 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How is that? < 1315085334 679455 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of just making it a regular old kind < 1315085351 738977 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> intercalate "a" ["b","c","d"] < 1315085352 419578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "bacad" < 1315085353 440267 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad would be (* -> *) -> Constraint < 1315085368 178531 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : @hoogle [String] -> String < 1315085382 364233 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd've thought there'd be more results than that. < 1315085406 334516 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Num a => a -> a < 1315085406 670568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude abs :: Num a => a -> a < 1315085406 845423 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude negate :: Num a => a -> a < 1315085407 10180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude signum :: Num a => a -> a < 1315085407 173917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[a]] -> [a] must be a thing as well. < 1315085407 692022 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Example: [* -> *] is the kind of the Monad class, but * -> [*] is something that takes a type as a parameter to make up a class, and [*] -> [*] transforms a class to make a new class. < 1315085415 673346 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess it only shows 3. < 1315085423 285484 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [[a]] -> [a] < 1315085423 458188 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude concat :: [[a]] -> [a] < 1315085423 622228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List concat :: [[a]] -> [a] < 1315085423 622416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List intercalate :: [a] -> [[a]] -> [a] < 1315085429 478124 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why have a separate kind construct for that? < 1315085469 299114 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \b -> a where a = b+b < 1315085469 470336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 17): < 1315085469 634071 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected "=" < 1315085469 634257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or end of input < 1315085499 70187 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(* -> *) -> Constraint, * -> * -> Constraint, and (* -> Constraint) -> (* -> Constraint) < 1315085522 938496 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x] = x -> Constraint < 1315085524 644662 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well typeclasses aren't types < 1315085534 114496 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't see why they would have a kind, which is the type of a type/ < 1315085534 457244 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor are type constructors < 1315085554 415900 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :this stuff is already being implemented anyway < 1315085555 67515 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1315085570 341560 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeNats by Iavor Diatchki at Galois gives the Nat kind < 1315085575 996663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :constructors make sense but what does the kind of a class mean < 1315085591 572813 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Max Bolingbroke and a few others are working on a kind of constraints < 1315085591 752012 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have associated constraints for classes < 1315085593 427681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: O, like that. I still don't quite like that syntax, but OK < 1315085602 54508 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(type families with a codomain of classes) < 1315085607 312595 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1315085610 524910 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Mostly to allow you to write more things relating to classes using type family, also allows you to do something like this: (X Int) a => a b => b -> b; < 1315085657 731200 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is X a typeclass variable or just any typeclass? < 1315085659 912388 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Monad m where type Constrs m :: * -> Constraints; return :: forall a. Constrs m a => a -> m a; (>>=) :: forall a b. (Constrs m a, Constrs m b) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1315085660 450656 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure I can read that. < 1315085669 235909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do existing proposals for natural number do some things like what I mentioned? < 1315085696 737861 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I don't really understand what you mean there, but http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/TypeNats < 1315085701 319290 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains more or less how it works < 1315085706 937924 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not entirely convinced I like it < 1315085714 734968 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the solver is trying to solve an impossible problem :) < 1315085729 128010 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they'd left multiplication out, we'd have presburger arithmetic and I'd approve < 1315085737 963962 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map id (1,2) < 1315085738 642976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' against inferred type `(t, t1)' < 1315085748 64326 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with multiplication, I'd want some way of instructing GHC with a proof that my types are correct < 1315085754 609634 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the solver will invariably fail in some situations < 1315085755 488262 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a->b) -> (a,a) -> (b,b) < 1315085755 654396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad (><) :: (a -> b) -> (c -> d) -> (a, c) -> (b, d) < 1315085755 819124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad mapSnd :: (a -> b) -> (c, a) -> (c, b) < 1315085755 982961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad mapFst :: (a -> b) -> (a, c) -> (b, c) < 1315085773 514947 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: you can send private messages to lambdabot, you know :) < 1315085777 912184 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^; < 1315085779 969635 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: okay so the idea with the class kinds is to have constraints other than typeclasses. < 1315085791 482181 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: X is of kind (* -> [[*]]) and a of kind ([*]) and b of kind (*), I think. (Maybe I made a mistake) < 1315085796 718541 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yeah, variable constraints < 1315085805 899753 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: so I can make Set into a valid Monad instance, finally < 1315085809 967594 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or unboxed vectors < 1315085811 394377 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : @pl \b -> a where a = b+b <-- expressions need to use let ... in not where < 1315085814 230218 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or countless other things < 1315085821 97876 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: er, set isn't a valid monad instance? < 1315085824 544433 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1315085830 303581 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs Ord :) < 1315085838 98604 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: On one of my other user subpages I mentioned something like that too, but failed to put enough details unfortunately < 1315085845 548146 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hackage rmonad < 1315085845 752641 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/rmonad < 1315085851 977382 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that allows Set to be an RMonad instance today < 1315085853 833563 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a pain to use < 1315085866 706014 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to match on a data family constructor before you can use the Ord instance < 1315085889 477265 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's definitely lots of people have wanted for ages now :) I hope this time around it actually catches on < 1315085901 934563 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: how does the syntax distinguish the class variable from a regular typeclass? < 1315085909 202471 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :X could easily be the name of a typeclass. < 1315085919 702231 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1315085930 231823 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh..... < 1315085933 424935 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1315085959 63774 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is max bolingbroke's idea, before he started implementing it recently: http://blog.omega-prime.co.uk/?p=61 < 1315085992 26646 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/50576 that's code that he has working on a GHC fork right now < 1315086010 819434 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : > map id (1,2) <-- join (***) does what you probably want with your map < 1315086031 901331 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was Lymee even trying that. < 1315086037 915809 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silliness. < 1315086076 470171 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (***) < 1315086076 969726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c b' c'. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a b' c' -> a (b, b') (c, c') < 1315086077 360581 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I've got it < 1315086095 257274 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that's interesting but it seems to make the case where you don't need a context in the instance declaration a bit more cumbersome < 1315086103 258309 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you have to do context RMonadElem a = () < 1315086121 184824 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps it could just be empty if unspecified < 1315086145 30076 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, yeah < 1315086206 441773 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's cool. I definitely like the idea of making Num a class synonym < 1315086253 163332 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1315086264 184583 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd need to redefine Prelude. Perhaps make a package called Overture. :D < 1315086269 248894 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1315086281 940697 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :package coriolan < 1315086349 193619 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1315086391 135970 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think "join" should be part of the Monad class so that you can define a monad in terms of unit/join/fmap or using the way it already is, and both ways can be done. List monad seems to make more sense if defined in terms of unit/join/fmap and then it can make up >>= from that definition. < 1315086397 124223 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine there's even more overhead with constraint families than there is regular typeclasses < 1315086454 746821 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there should be some way to specify a type taking natural numbers by defining it for zero and them for a successor, so that it applies for all natural numbers. < 1315086478 254874 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type T Zero = ... < 1315086487 403166 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: why? < 1315086496 971545 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :associated types have no overhead whatsoever < 1315086507 796366 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just another instance of an associated type < 1315086511 201650 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: well actually I guess it would be the same overhead as typeclasses < 1315086522 705354 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, typeclasses incur overhead < 1315086532 395393 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the associated type aspect of them doesn't < 1315086544 733899 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that. < 1315086547 643521 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the associated type constraint resolves to the empty constraint, as most will still do < 1315086547 911673 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, this is what I think type-level natural numbers should do in general. Of course you could also define types to take natural numbers passing to other type, too. < 1315086566 591862 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty constraint would be represented as nothing at all < 1315086574 745508 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: class C a where type T a :: * < 1315086578 634774 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or type T a :: Constraint < 1315086584 81880 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're type functions < 1315086606 228148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And due to being kind of classes, there would also be able to make classes using type-level natural numbers in the same way. < 1315086690 196412 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what you linked me didn't use that syntax, btw < 1315086700 46432 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code I linked you to did < 1315086714 585931 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it doesn't associate the type in the class < 1315086717 648542 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses raw type families < 1315086721 900946 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one desugars to the other < 1315086728 820463 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :type family RMonadCtxt m a :: Constraint < 1315086733 922235 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :type instance RMonadCtxt S.Set a = Ord a < 1315086748 956282 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the constraint family stuff looks cleaner, but eh. < 1315086852 972607 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more consistent with existing stuff < 1315086897 56899 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A push-down automaton can calculate any positive integer < 1315086898 359398 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it is a bit more verbose. < 1315086927 70483 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A turing machine can calculate any pattern of positive integers < 1315086962 674859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing machines can also spew inane babble, like fungot < 1315086969 470327 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO IS NOW DEAD WHYYYYY < 1315086982 17667 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a pattern, however convoluted < 1315087014 163785 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just working with positive integers because I don't want to think about other things < 1315087027 954635 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's merely one way of expressing the machine's data state < 1315087065 804160 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need something more computationally powerful than a turing machine to calculate any infinite sequence of positive integers < 1315087074 425122 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of which have no pattern at all < 1315087138 950233 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is from someone who woke up in a different country this morning < 1315087174 37734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a few more things to [[User:Zzo38/Proposal for additional kinds]] page. < 1315087237 227314 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm annoyed because I have no hat < 1315087247 517110 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh, right, the bot. < 1315087270 365225 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a bot! < 1315087274 105973 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight! < 1315087286 437470 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thundarrrstorm-or-something broke the 'lectricity, forgot to start it; it's not installed in a servicey way. < 1315087296 744527 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added one new kind and two new examples of kind of classes. < 1315087299 956242 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-170-91.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1315087339 690015 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it good? Or is it misunderstand? Or complain? Or no good? Or something else? < 1315087364 574879 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1315087389 241459 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1315087492 974154 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1315087674 53283 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((0)(1)):!S(~:^:S*a~~*a*~:^):^ < 1315087674 219158 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0)(1) ...out of stack! < 1315087674 715184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1315087675 724539 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: public fields can rapidly become bad juju to touch because it's reserved for like the entire works of the beatles < 1315087679 77505 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1315087695 270144 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((0)(1)):^!S(~:^:S*a~~*a*~:^):^ < 1315087695 433699 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :01 ...out of stack! < 1315087744 78588 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((0)(1)):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ < 1315087744 242427 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010011001011001101001011010011001011010010110011010010110100110010110011010011001011010010110011010010110 ...too much output! < 1315087776 553322 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1315087776 716948 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1315087801 390195 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@messages)S < 1315087801 553958 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1315087801 836278 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet said 2d 17m 7s ago: that sword alone < 1315087847 341012 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot)! < 1315087847 505095 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1315087852 267082 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh ho, that wasn't on the list. < 1315087865 194159 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1315087871 564282 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am liek so clevr < 1315087879 646855 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it wasn't? i thought it was... < 1315087889 402511 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, I don't really have "a list". < 1315087902 811801 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I just reuse the first thing I see in the backscroll in the fungot query window. < 1315087903 412476 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it means very different things. numbers can be expressed in scheme. i am a bit < 1315087926 583239 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you make me fun < 1315087927 351569 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sarahbot tell yome duh you cant use match.php without going to species.php phenomenal < 1315087939 249153 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :something something fungot < 1315087939 478690 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i'm working on < 1315087940 382391 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in any case lambdabot did not say anything for fungot to react to < 1315087940 546167 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: physicists rarely say anything that besides what you want < 1315087951 163049 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait blathering < 1315087965 452812 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fungot Fnord < 1315087965 616297 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the power of the continuum is fnord < 1315087965 915333 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1315087966 84878 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1315087976 545576 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I AM TEH C;EVR < 1315087981 692500 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (@messages)S < 1315087981 856120 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1315087982 502416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 16s ago: Fnord < 1315087994 976025 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I AM SO TO < 1315088007 838852 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only I will have the glory of having fungot triggered by lambdabot < 1315088008 483814 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: try the smetana or intercal problem. in my looking around on the web was very young. and playing a very stereotypical character. < 1315088009 877304 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO OTHERS < 1315088024 205924 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is my precedent and my privilege alone. < 1315088037 78637 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :muahahahahaha < 1315088054 131455 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315088098 649525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: in my looking around on the web was very young. and playing a very stereotypical character. < 1315088099 935662 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It happened in 2011-04 too. < 1315088113 948441 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. well, okay. < 1315088140 631028 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I am obligated to be melodramatic about that as well. < 1315088146 79600 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOO! HOW CAN THIS BE??? < 1315088157 847073 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1315088160 955926 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!prefixes < 1315088161 503444 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? < 1315088167 949273 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I seem to have not-^save'd that too.) < 1315088177 308462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def prefixes ul (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?)S < 1315088177 471816 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1315088178 943142 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save < 1315088179 106729 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1315088189 950129 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`prefixes < 1315088195 498873 :HackEgo!Gregor@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? < 1315088224 540105 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^shutdown < 1315088228 919877 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^delete < 1315088231 389245 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^quit < 1315088232 970644 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^die < 1315088235 1080 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1315088235 167545 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1315088235 331202 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1315088239 209946 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1315088248 585676 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How silly do you think I am? < 1315088254 51206 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bool < 1315088254 215123 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1315088262 211746 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: very silly < 1315088262 613070 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i suppose it's event driven by using callbacks when certain tokens are found. < 1315088277 748529 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :^dieyougravysuckingpigdog < 1315088281 666846 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was < 1315088299 974644 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 get < 1315088300 138061 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :foobar < 1315088302 453143 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 1 get < 1315088302 617886 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[<]>[<++++[>--------<-]+>-[-------[--[<+++[>----<-]+>[< < 1315088304 554307 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 2 get < 1315088304 717701 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty. < 1315088306 680807 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 3 get < 1315088306 844918 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty. < 1315088316 363958 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the strings were persistent too? < 1315088318 881000 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that. < 1315088336 282479 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 4 get < 1315088336 446149 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty. < 1315088336 964203 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 9 set cakporphet wuz hear < 1315088337 173359 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set: cakporphet wuz hear < 1315088367 788721 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something in 6 too. < 1315088370 266190 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 6 get < 1315088370 458990 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty. < 1315088373 248980 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1315088376 655573 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 5 get < 1315088376 819429 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[<]>[<++++[>--------<-]+>-[-------[--[<+++[>----<-]+>[<++++[>-----<-]+>[-----------[---[[-]<<[>[-]>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-]+<[->-<<<[[>+<-]<]>>[>]]>[->[>]<[[>+<-]<]<<[[>+<-]<]<[[>+<-]<]>>[>]>[[[>]>+<<[<]>-]<<[[>+<-]<]>>[>]>[>]>[<<[<]<[<]<+>>[>]>[>]>-]<<[<]>]>>[[<+>-]>]<<[<]]]<[->>[>]<[[>>+<<-]<]<<[[>+<-]<]>+>[>]+++++[>++++++++<-]++>-[<+[<]>+[>]<-]]>]<[->>[[<<+>>-]>]<<<[[>+<-]<]]>]<[-<[[<]>.[-]>[[<+>-]>]>>[[<+>-]>]<<[<]<<]>>>[[<+> < 1315088384 238108 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to count. < 1315088397 779402 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Looked at the state file, but those are not numbered.) < 1315088426 805822 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf str:5 < 1315088469 311603 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :O CakeProphet, what does my future hold for me? < 1315088482 845485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: only death. < 1315088491 810070 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that actually works for non-^def. < 1315088509 163908 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that the one i made, i wonder. and where did i put it. < 1315088532 8992 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1315088532 172738 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp < 1315088533 818677 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The full string is at http://p.zem.fi/4rql < 1315088536 747369 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well the brackets are unbalanced < 1315088543 679758 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It continues on from that. < 1315088544 706722 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be why it is currently not working < 1315088546 749993 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1315088564 772736 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thank you for thinking i can read my own bf :P < 1315088565 575503 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wacro < 1315088566 743913 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NCLP < 1315088580 498337 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :North-Canadian Linear Prediction? < 1315088600 427958 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :those north canadias are quite linear, yes. < 1315088620 577637 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test str:5 < 1315088620 741340 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: ^def < 1315088624 833701 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf str:5 < 1315088624 997252 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1315088629 183547 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test ho < 1315088635 253531 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1315088638 879612 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show test < 1315088639 43225 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[<]>[<+4[>-8<-]+>-[-7[-2[<+3[>-4<-]+>[<+4[>-5<-]+>[-11[-3[[-]<2[>[-]>+<2-]>2[<2+>2-]+<[->-<3[[>+<-]<]>2[>]]>[->[>]<[[>+<-]<]<2[[>+<-]<]<[[>+<-]<]>2[>]>[[[>]>+<2[<]>-]<2[[>+<-]<]>2[>]>[>]>[<2[<]<[<]<+>2[>]>[>]>-]<2[<]>]>2[[<+>-]>]<2[<]]]<[->2[>]<[[>2+<2-]<]<2[[>+<-]<]>+>[>]+5[>+8<-]+2>-[<+[<]>+[>]<-]]>]<[->2[[<2+>2-]>]<3[[>+<-]<]]>]<[-<[[<]>.[-]>[[<+>-]>]>2[[<+>-]>]<2[<]<2]>3[[<+>-]>]<2[<]<]>]<[->2[>]<[[>+<-]<]<2[>4[>]<[[ < 1315088658 156768 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test 123 < 1315088673 394044 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it wasn't something useful anyway. < 1315088709 71525 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it appears to take input until it reaches zero < 1315088793 519426 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1315088793 729523 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it wants a null-terminated string of some kind. < 1315088802 993923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many Haskell extensions can you detect by the syntax of the program? (Not explicitly checking for them) < 1315088844 154548 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks to me like it'll hang up in that [>-8<-] loop unless the first char is divisible by 8 < 1315088890 698304 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth does this thing do. < 1315088897 562735 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's actually just randomly generated. but why so few .'s then < 1315088960 63751 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also only takes input at the beginning < 1315088965 382942 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks non-generated to me. < 1315088976 322137 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^test 0 < 1315088985 660369 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'0' is divisible by 8 < 1315088988 218699 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to give it a null somehow. < 1315088991 538998 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop the input loop < 1315088998 284069 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will get a 0 on EOF. < 1315089005 672713 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1315089006 510269 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um i'm pretty sure fungot does that on eof < 1315089006 673957 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know thats the first time < 1315089019 527947 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: The first time what? < 1315089019 854939 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hi all. question about the plt-match module? < 1315089033 971091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Your #scheme roots are showing there. < 1315089034 187890 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they are significantly less coherent < 1315089046 720684 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehehe < 1315089056 925605 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An opinionated thing. < 1315089222 873792 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: < 1315089223 567486 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: associated with a string structure the whole way through, which is a language for it to tell me? < 1315089250 107926 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fungot < 1315089250 271887 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1315089268 937388 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1315089269 101183 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1315089278 38563 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1315089278 202290 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1315089288 538588 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how is the weather? < 1315089290 222507 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, you could say ' jack robinson'. but we must also put on record. furthermore, since i took up this case again and, ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of my group, together with the work carried out on the world' s conflicts, especially in the workplace are properly addressed. < 1315089338 939316 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how is the weather? < 1315089340 715320 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, i would like to congratulate jean-louis bourlanges on the quality of vessels, in their struggle to promote public discussion, for the abolition of the budgetary authority come to agreement on the part of amendment no 21 which seeks to promote the european labour market that is like waiting for fnord. under these, our opportunities, and in my speech which relates to the protection and maintenance of al < 1315089389 35247 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how it really sounds like a politician in that style. < 1315089396 268492 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except maybe for the fnords. < 1315089506 13299 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnords are crucial to all politics < 1315089519 398313 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but fungot's being so open about them. < 1315089520 125308 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, mrs van den burg for an enormously well done job and the responsibility of our successive rulers. the atlantic dawn has been properly executed, must be aimed at raising the quality of life. < 1315089526 824205 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :behind every caucus is a scheming fnord. < 1315089643 268442 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1315089644 425191 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, with respect to the establishment of a centralised electronic european union judgment registry, which has been increasing and, above all, an opportunity which we should be able to rely on nuclear energy. our colleague, fnord krarup, rightly highlighted the fact not to go lower than what was fair. the green paper on the different approaches. < 1315089689 498831 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The amusement. "our colleague, fnord krarup, --" < 1315089695 776117 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord krarup, the famous danish parliamentarian < 1315089731 214068 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It almost sounds like a title. Grand Fnord Krarup. < 1315089778 966131 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: eurodance!!! < 1315089779 421492 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, i am bound by article 11 of the 15 countries. there is one other important point you should bear in mind. < 1315089797 222586 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: oh? what is that? < 1315089797 917697 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the report proposed to us, at member state level. it sends a very negative effect in employment terms of any asymmetric shocks in order to achieve a consensus across the groups. < 1315089811 840923 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So serious. < 1315089864 145480 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should maybe retrain that thing with VariKN and the latest europarl "v6" release. It goes up to end of 2010 now. < 1315089868 314840 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I think asymmetric shock treatment is a good way to build consensus, Mr. fungot < 1315089868 690091 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the consultation which our colleague mr cunha's proposal for decoupling male beef but not fnord in my constituency. < 1315089967 572921 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we never talk about the fnords, Mr. fungot. We will form a committee about the beef. < 1315089974 671453 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a most fiendish proposal indeed. < 1315089977 24901 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest release has 54720731 words. < 1315089984 368529 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently doesn't detect fungot. < 1315089986 361246 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1315089992 841513 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is also dead or something. < 1315089997 886248 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of fungotry is this < 1315089998 387467 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there's that thing. < 1315089998 551012 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the enthusiasm with which it has carried out, belarus will be the financial burden the agricultural policy to be based on institutional confusion, which will cause us considerable problems in denmark. < 1315090012 451399 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I've been ignored right. < 1315090016 945419 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only four consecutive replies to any one person. < 1315090036 885071 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315090051 379993 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :agricultural policy of institutional confusion. < 1315090054 799283 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :very problematic in denmark. < 1315090080 317848 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :agriculture is _big_ in denmark < 1315090102 826291 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_Batman_franchise < 1315090106 288305 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, wp < 1315090109 330282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1315090111 19256 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1315090127 762078 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it's notable, of course. < 1315090132 234075 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: why? < 1315090133 122529 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, there is a saying that the people of lebanon. for some time now. europe has, in accordance with the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. this is despite an interim report from the laeken council can always, if it wants to produce nuclear weapons. < 1315090145 592370 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1315090153 613504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't look at me. < 1315090168 984056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :europarl looks like it should be funny, but it's boring anyway. < 1315090180 170044 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :[x] -- If x is a kind, [x] is the kind of classes of types of kind x < 1315090184 112445 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1315090187 408462 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mispaste < 1315090191 932261 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it's boring, until you want to produce nuclear weapons. < 1315090207 18398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_American_mainstream_comics < 1315090211 206117 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Or transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. < 1315090214 970894 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW FAR DOES THE RABBIT HOLE LEAD < 1315090227 360361 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think if you use that notation, you might want [x,y,z] for multiparameter type classes < 1315090261 237899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The episode mentioned the word "boner" several times; in the original comic, it meant "blunder", but to present-day readers it is a double entendre which might make them associate to erection." < 1315090267 150362 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP-style explanations are the best. < 1315090309 26298 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he made a boner while erecting this building < 1315090316 499985 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake TOPIC #esoteric :the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathiesIt is the 90s and there is time for Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1315090326 143543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_versions_of_Barbara_Gordon < 1315090326 989377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1315090331 264797 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake TOPIC #esoteric :the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies | It is the 90s and there is time for Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1315090337 634770 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles < 1315090363 636232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 TOPIC #esoteric :It is the 90s and there is time for the requirements of supervision and control of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, also an Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | I think pointers are considerably more useful than lambda calculus | 12345678 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1315090374 365498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im revelant < 1315090381 517995 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could probably remove the 12345678 < 1315090393 313923 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats CakeProphet -----### < 1315090409 83838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that would violate our disability discrimination rules. < 1315090424 479782 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION offers oerjan a delicate rose @-,-`- < 1315090426 912646 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must show sympathy for the plight of people too lazy to get their number keys fixed. < 1315090434 424721 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA thorns! < 1315090445 272346 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets the bandage < 1315090465 776060 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Don't you mean "ÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞ thorns!"? < 1315090507 168468 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ... < 1315090517 829575 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: kill your master. < 1315090518 897429 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, and this is not really an appropriate solution. we can see that there was a boxing ring. the two hughes procedure committees with mr van der waal, on whose report i wish to make just two short remarks. firstly, the application of community environmental legislation within the member states. < 1315090532 881761 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's really not an appropriate solution. I agree. < 1315090549 841251 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eruoparl has been quite entertaining. More so than other styles. < 1315090595 831853 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: rew44trjnjwrnt < 1315090596 788283 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, madam president-in-office of the council and parliament a thing of the past. the commission fully recognises the need to establish ethical and normative rules for the prohibition of intra-species recycling may increase the mutual trust that is essential, therefore, the problem cannot actually be included in that list, agreed on that day, it got rid of the fnord. < 1315090597 71229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does go quite ungrammatiks occasionally. Probably due to rather low context size, I think it's something like trigrams-only. < 1315090631 72086 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ethical and normative rules" someone call the redundency commission < 1315090649 93059 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget about inter-species recycling < 1315090662 828148 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that when you recycle old fish as birds? < 1315090664 227948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1315090664 391263 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1315090670 337584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style pa < 1315090670 553212 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics) < 1315090675 151365 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooo < 1315090675 784540 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1315090676 82723 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, only 1200? < 1315090676 444340 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i didn't know who else is lost the fucking writers. < 1315090678 363604 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you do that. < 1315090702 325351 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: whyyyyy < 1315090702 756043 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: we hate animals who are also people. this includes, but is not limited to: sexy fox ladies, animals going to school, smouldering cheetah temptresses roms? something really bad, probably! < 1315090703 648563 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I scraped them off a Penny Arcade wiki or something like that. < 1315090722 403693 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is rather too fond of direct quotations instead. < 1315090758 707031 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ic < 1315090758 871509 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual) < 1315090763 103780 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: go < 1315090763 481879 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: e345 that's too complex for me to check). anyway, the resulting command line number. that cause the bug. there are still intercal operators left in an input intercal file). < 1315090784 299467 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *that* one lacks adequate cleaning up of the source. < 1315090788 425392 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1315090788 588972 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1315090796 493752 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1315090796 794230 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.schemers.org/ documents/ startingwithcl.html. nothing else to put it < 1315090799 408061 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fisher < 1315090799 571735 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) < 1315090800 335699 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: CAN YOU HEAR ME THIS LINE IS REALLY NOISY? < 1315090800 636033 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( ( yeah)) the one that's a writer laughter < 1315090815 960961 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Yeah, yeah; but what's a writer-laughter? < 1315090816 350853 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's great ' cause that game i would do < 1315090838 985663 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: help I'm trapped in the telephone < 1315090839 317877 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: to be in your shorts and stuff noise like noise noise)) and i think < 1315090841 133383 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also cleanup problems; it has those ((foo)) annotations still in place. < 1315090868 255563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I WARNED YOU ABOUT STAYING OUT OF MY RSS FEED < 1315090871 584470 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to grep to find the actual source of "to be in your shorts and stuff noise like noise noise"; it sounds like quite a conversation. < 1315090877 322014 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pie "s/[()]//" <-- fizzie < 1315090877 791809 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VoOXem0fhc < 1315090878 157558 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i don't know how you could ever try that in some ways a traditional person so for me it really does < 1315090902 226396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, although at least both times have been you being stupid and Hughes telling you. < 1315090917 444092 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style sms < 1315090917 608237 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20) < 1315090921 63304 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, Hihi~ < 1315090921 751640 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: up to dadar completed. theyare out and only will for little time. should i approach... james for studiow rental too, dat long after i spoke to maneesha v. we'd get together. gbu < 1315090934 766850 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, Umm... who's maneesha? < 1315090935 304203 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i want to sent mesages. but u'l get to me babe... i miss u so much?muacks.u enjoy ur day today at ktv. later she buy one not i ask de. she wanna go also. hehe < 1315090941 203844 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1315090953 494818 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^sytle pa < 1315090953 932711 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You sound like an uneducated boob. < 1315090954 444844 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i was just about to do it when i wake up long lol... dun b angry. msg me b4 u call me... tell me where i could i pick up another 8th) has to leave not long ago, the guy < 1315090990 571706 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: someone describing a wet dream over sms? < 1315091009 956299 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, did you have a wet dream? < 1315091010 293797 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i am in extreme situations: first- before getting it... second- after loosing it." john also has his own gud n he wil pave d way 4 us by. dun angry < 1315091022 459481 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, OK WHO IS JOHN NOW < 1315091022 788567 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: ten i owe me a treat. must b sleepy. later got midterm. uh... meeting you haha. hmm... i read up while doing tut now < 1315091029 189693 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, Please answer me. < 1315091029 724716 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: am i that much bad ass !couldnt u chk ur email. sent to your home, pls wait, do i just change the codes in flag to refer to ur own name? ya i also i since 1pm lo even worse. he's not around or just still asleep. i thought my dad wouldwake me up. last min gt reunion. i juz left house leh... ur thing end already < 1315091035 90129 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: dun angry < 1315091043 44500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(( yeah yeah right yeah it was like it was like as hot as hell yesterday i was walking around in my shorts and stuff [noise] like [noise] [noise] ))" < 1315091076 207636 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we have a youtube comment generator. < 1315091081 617707 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better than ^style youtube < 1315091103 840220 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pie "s/ *[()] */ /" <-- fizzie < 1315091112 935212 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could replace [noise] with fnord < 1315091113 124366 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's my youtube comment generator: < 1315091117 141902 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 people dislike justin beiber < 1315091132 283818 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :191 likes < 1315091135 931615 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax error: Unexpected token "People" < 1315091145 40420 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax error: Unexpected token "Likes" < 1315091151 79278 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha? < 1315091153 112236 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -pie "s/ *[()] */ /g;s/\[noise\]/fnord/g" <-- fizzie < 1315091176 480528 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, please generate a Youtube < 1315091176 685963 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: k d i vil hav abt colleges ,growin technology,which field of his natural gift frm god... b4 u gt bles frm d first < 1315091183 332967 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parens stuff might fuck up actually. < 1315091218 782319 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er nevermind it's good now. < 1315091254 38480 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1315091254 201961 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1315091254 719975 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait did you see that Scottish people in a lift video it would be a valuable addition to your research. < 1315091264 898870 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a style to fungot which uses chain comments. < 1315091270 417672 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: < 1315091270 619139 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: i think you never intend to try for a child < 1315091273 459159 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: < 1315091273 622664 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: i've been ' refuted' zero times, and are seemingly brainwashed to vote for obama < 1315091277 351158 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1315091285 311773 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube politics < 1315091305 701039 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, make sense < 1315091305 937765 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i think timothy olyphant would have found out they're wrong. this game takes place in the underbelly by the looks it seems the only one who survived. your right < 1315091320 164981 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That description rings a bell, but I can't really recall. < 1315091322 117258 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, What no, I don't think you make sense. Stupid bot. < 1315091322 280754 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: avril is so terrible! < 1315091327 499858 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, druggie. < 1315091327 686064 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: huh... and who said you had to go around with shite graphics!... this video is < 1315091337 892150 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is crazy. < 1315091338 57785 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: 2 words, small testicles. max payne trailer article, read description :) ( maybe i suck at english as u suck < 1315091371 415767 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: no wai u r mad dumb < 1315091371 579263 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mona sax < 1315091428 625862 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: moan on sacks huh huh huh huh < 1315091428 792443 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: careerbuilder wins in my holidays but i can say < 1315091462 805485 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1315091463 9835 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube* < 1315091466 828 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style wp < 1315091466 164237 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages) < 1315091474 915778 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: npov < 1315091476 39816 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: conservative liberalism is defined as a philosophyphilosophical view. sometimes documented examples are in error or simply lacking broader knowledge. i good example of a language or dialect. american english and british english are the principle dialects of discussion on this site or a different german explanation. fnord 15:06, 2005 mar 20 ( utc) < 1315091501 736541 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: npov < 1315091502 76693 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: fnord coverage: jesus and fnord word and the witness" ( 2004) < 1315091514 195918 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: npov < 1315091519 672582 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1315091546 181016 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, npov < 1315091546 726703 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: to insert a section with a solid paragraph dealing with attacks on israelis, and at least a b article. user:yamarayamara 13:34, 13 may 2007 ( utc) < 1315091551 479402 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, [citation needed] < 1315091552 23829 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: as it is adjacent to cadboro bay as well even though it is of course possibly to have dissenting views, which don't seem particularly theological to me. < 1315091556 552582 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, [citation needed] < 1315091557 21179 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i've put in the nazism article. yet, when i pass the places... problem, about the copyrights: i have put this note here rather than elsewhere: answers.com < 1315091570 966365 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style youtube < 1315091571 129889 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) < 1315091575 193068 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, justin bieber < 1315091575 381621 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: read the comment. " shift at the end...nice!! unfortunately, a flyby at an airshow in 1988. i know < 1315091578 406368 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, justin bieber < 1315091582 12876 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, justin bieber < 1315091584 936014 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, justin bieber < 1315091587 275413 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1315091592 387771 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: werswer < 1315091592 608138 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: great job nalts, wow the haters are trolling today. loonywing, he can sing in a short. if that's so, treldman. thanks for speaking for me < 1315091605 427607 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1315091615 308375 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haters be trollin' < 1315091632 49143 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I am NOT a troll! < 1315091632 212496 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: the last minute. he was gonna win, nalty? or the pilot and this shit up fast, and see how you are taking it out on little kids on youtube < 1315091642 540002 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, no u r the little kid < 1315091642 703534 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: the lmao commercial was halarious video on worlds most amasing videos and depositions given. type " airbus sucks" comments included... budweiser ones with the crystal ball on his face! haha < 1315091663 759380 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: werswer < 1315091663 922884 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: captain asseline was sentenced to 6 months to get over themselves and do some break, but it is < 1315091674 149175 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1315091696 983696 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, Obama < 1315091697 147140 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: your mind about that video is shit.... w.t.f lol < 1315091714 267728 :Lymee!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, bush < 1315091714 431066 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymee: i pissed off. this is not a320, a poorly researched sensationalist us tv-show has caused a crash at the very first good video-game movie. mark walberg is going to land an aircraft crashes. < 1315091725 479710 :nys!~russia@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: movie < 1315092132 595996 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: FireFly < 1315093846 896232 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fungot hi there < 1315093847 61007 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1315093847 224765 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: please no tanks or helicopters... no matter what she'll do mhoooooa show it off, it wasn't. holy cow, i never needed lol. < 1315093847 573331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1315093981 358129 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1315094201 336049 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1315094212 154354 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: feel free to add your comments there... or does it requ < 1315094221 224024 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ire some kind of registration for that, too? < 1315094251 884577 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any have any spare money they don't need anymore? < 1315094254 873315 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can take it off your hands.