< 1316995220 461230 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A page fault automatically involves an address space switch on traditional kernels. < 1316995233 245237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In ring 0. < 1316995244 748917 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheap as fuck. < 1316995251 879130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How cheap, compared to a memory access? < 1316995279 100048 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... Should just be a pipeline flush. < 1316995299 895068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: e.g., if someone made every memory access go through a page fault on a typical Linux system (except that the page faults only have the overhead of a ring-0 pagefault because ), how much slower would it go? < 1316995348 413955 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A page fault is just a fairly standard interrupt. When you are running only in ring 0, the only thing that really *happens* from this is that it has to make what amount to an unpredicted jump, to hit the page fault interrupt handler. < 1316995362 452951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must know the answer to the above :P < 1316995363 764327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUUUUUUST < 1316995374 674565 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kjugobe used a psychic power to make the chimney pots move around on the roof, attempting to hit him off. One misses. The man on the roof tries to break it with his sword and succeeds. The second pot misses. He hits it with his sword. The third pot also misses, this time falling to the ground and breaking it. < 1316995389 278345 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every single page memory access hitting a page fault? Tenth to a hundredth of the speed? < 1316995402 462906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hitting a page fault /at ring 0 speeds/. < 1316995409 534045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask how, just assume it's magic. < 1316995424 342188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the page fault handler then just magically returning what the memory access would. < 1316995426 806255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no overhead. < 1316995427 55496 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"at ring 0 speeds"? what does that even mean? < 1316995435 181990 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Pipeline flushes cost quite a few clock cycles. < 1316995435 199805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: AT THE SPEED OF RING 0 < 1316995443 526327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bleh. < 1316995451 86339 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The speed of having to switch from ring 0 *to* ring 0 in order to handle it. < 1316995460 231037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I'm trying to work out how to do @'s orthogonal persistence.) < 1316995476 547203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously every memory write must mark that region of memory as dirty. < 1316995530 489857 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The way you do that is rather to make the *first* write to page after you've persisted it mark it as dirty. < 1316995543 418343 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then sync your dirty pages later. < 1316995553 348010 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the page fault handler doesn't actually return what the memory access does, it usually just changes the page tables to indicate the page exists and is accessible then returns to the start of the instruction that faulted < 1316995557 815724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but that still feels pretty high overhead. < 1316995598 833263 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm describing how page faults usually work. :) < 1316995617 365928 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when the page is in a RW map of a file. < 1316995632 713168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, but most pages don't become faulty (technical term :P) every hundred milliseconds or so in Linux. < 1316995659 820986 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the cpu mark pages as dirty by itself when they're written to? istr there being a flag for that < 1316995669 378658 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, and task switches don't cost hundreds of clock cycles on @ < 1316995677 701834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FAIR POINT < 1316995682 89404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Really? < 1316995686 35238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be super useful. < 1316995687 96498 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to iterate and check the flag yourself though < 1316995687 185379 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that "thousands", actually. A TLB flush is hella-expensive. < 1316995706 898399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah, but I'd have to iterate through dirty pages anyway. < 1316995716 626488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What sizes do pages come in this century? < 1316995729 265760 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Stock page size is 4k on x86. < 1316995731 569089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use one-meg pages, because it'd be too much computational work to figure out what changed within the page. < 1316995744 964818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah but I'm on -sixtyfour, and you can enlargen them to some fixed sizes, no? < 1316995750 807910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does that have bad side-effects? < 1316995764 169840 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next size is 2 or 4MB < 1316995773 36789 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can make 1GB pages < 1316995778 63897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1316995780 930844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'll be doing that. < 1316995794 421292 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 does 4k, 2MB, and 1GB pages. They can coëxist freely. < 1316995803 738335 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has absolutely no bad side effects. < 1316995806 203631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long does finding the first byte at which two two-meg-sized chunks of memory differ take these days? < 1316995833 139612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assume worst-case.) < 1316995911 245083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: current Unity opinions: it's rather bad but maybe if this fucking touchpad was working better I could judge it more objectively < 1316995915 86410 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's too small to parallelise efficiently < 1316995929 356509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: How about 4 megs then :P < 1316995929 546681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good to know < 1316995943 698164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think it has promise? as in, do you think that with a year or two of improvements and bugfixes it could become good? < 1316995962 6135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do you think it'd be passable with nothing but bugfixes, or is the UI paradigm broken? < 1316995968 644090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't know about good, but it could certainly be tolerable. < 1316995977 516054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's hard to define bugfix for something like this, really. < 1316995982 805439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1316995983 373787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it's bad is a bug. < 1316996014 33344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to find out which trackpad driver is currently being used? < 1316996016 231060 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what a good UI is... < 1316996020 534949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: @ < 1316996026 261058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The right module is loaded but I dunno if it's being /used/. < 1316996056 793097 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Um, seems to be ~0.03 seconds. < 1316996059 913862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Bug number one for me right now is that alt-tab doesn't work fast enough, really. < 1316996065 90209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Using what to measure it? < 1316996071 542209 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. 0.003. Bleh. < 1316996079 148103 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly gnome 3 is perfectly sufficient for me. < 1316996085 806748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You haven't used gnome three. < 1316996086 467083 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://sprunge.us/WFbA That < 1316996090 752610 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And timing it. < 1316996091 35199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we can assume that @ is platonically good, but having some idea of what it's like beyond that would be nice < 1316996092 584315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UI-wise < 1316996092 918039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've used gnome three in a very non-standard configuration. < 1316996099 476156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what I need to find out < 1316996109 707629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh come on, there are stdlib functions for doing that < 1316996110 959108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, "what is a good UI" is a reasonable question, because "@'s" is not a useful answer < 1316996117 541184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was snarky < 1316996127 218183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1316996129 615339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, note that I don't really consider @ "fantastic" or anything superlative. < 1316996129 633947 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Feh. < 1316996152 864691 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that still counts as gnome 3. < 1316996159 343656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just trying to get the answer to "how behind are we in computing from where we should be?" to be something like "hugely" rather than "astronomically". < 1316996175 291080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: memcmp should do it. < 1316996188 173012 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the D&D session I played last, I started with 10 silver coins (that's all the money I had), lost it, gained 20, and then paid 10 to a bar man. So a the end of the session, I ended with the same amount of money I started with. < 1316996190 40234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does something slightly different -- "was the byte greater or less" rather than "where is it" -- but it's close enough. < 1316996194 695409 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if attempting to incorporate a text interface into a graphical one would be a nightmare or a good thing. < 1316996199 543939 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like graphical + commands < 1316996199 928404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm vaguely tempted to have my own try at @ just to give you a better view in your mind as to what's going wrong < 1316996206 934905 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fine, 0.00004 seconds. < 1316996207 98783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Graphical display is orthogonal from linguistic input. < 1316996212 214853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Haha, really? < 1316996218 688032 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The bar man asked me for it; I didn't actually go there to buy anything from him.) < 1316996223 223833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, put that in a for loop that does it about ten thousand times. < 1316996230 253430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then give me the time that takes to run, divided by ten thousand. < 1316996234 57467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll be more accurate. < 1316996251 100745 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure but not from the users point of view. < 1316996259 74089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, they /are/ orthogonal. < 1316996267 792585 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 0.0000004 < 1316996273 65202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They change the UI as a whole, but that's obvious. < 1316996275 368881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wow, what, really? < 1316996281 29501 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have fucked something up. < 1316996286 49869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I see your code? < 1316996295 373273 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc optimized the entire comparison away, most likely < 1316996301 874515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaah, check the assembly of that < 1316996309 761956 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just running memcmp in the loop. I'm thinking, yes, it optimised it out. < 1316996311 325334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make 'em volatile or something < 1316996313 131989 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay yeah. but you can still have linguistic input in a graphical interface... < 1316996317 791328 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not impossible. < 1316996322 952671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Of course you can. That's what "orthogonal" means. < 1316996328 29577 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let's just output it. < 1316996334 119260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I take it two and four meg pages are basically identical in terms of restrictions and what they change and whatnot? < 1316996359 975328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Don't output it in a loop. < 1316996367 301296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stdio/syscall time will dwarf anything else. < 1316996399 688235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/BlueDragonX/xf86-input-mtrack hmm... < 1316996416 770592 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think only one of them are available in x64/PAE, I don't remember the details < 1316996421 493023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it hasn't been changed in ages < 1316996431 707726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Ah. I thought you said sixtyfour bit had both of them? < 1316996434 497332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, oh < 1316996438 789519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean if PAE or sixty-four bit is enabled < 1316996439 612668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1316996442 274170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, is available < 1316996448 843091 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("%i", memcmp(...)) should make it not optimize that out. < 1316996449 18258 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.002672s < 1316996456 681253 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316996456 734699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IgnorePalm - Whether or not to ignore touches that are determined to be palms. Boolean value. Defaults to false. < 1316996462 211188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, at least it has this < 1316996465 417981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: printf("%i", memcmp(...)) should make it not optimize that out. < 1316996467 227535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a /loop/? < 1316996468 723628 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so then what are you saying...? < 1316996468 886727 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1316996471 518238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, dude, don't do that. < 1316996482 338479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gimme your code, I'll mod it myself :P < 1316996492 381670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "ThumbRatio - The width/length ratio of what's considered a thumb. It is expected that a thumb is longer than it is wide. This tells the driver how much longer. Percentage represented by an integer. Defaults to 70." < 1316996500 301771 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or you just write it yourself. It's a friggin' loop. < 1316996509 395285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't have number keys. :'( < 1316996509 454965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1316996511 463723 :CakeProp1et!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :CakeProphet < 1316996515 983399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought it would amuse you < 1316996523 61396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see, to tell which finger is which < 1316996526 407017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading about that < 1316996547 710658 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://sprunge.us/YZbV Better? < 1316996579 788341 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just don't really follow the point you were trying to make by saying "these two things are independent of each other." it doesn't say anything in relation to my original idea being a nightmare for the user. < 1316996590 391507 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :since memcmp is pure, I think it can lift it out of the loop and just measure 10000 calls to printf < 1316996610 672350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/UOfN < 1316996616 843647 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf might modify a1 and a2 though < 1316996680 35070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think if I can get this trackpad working, I'll keep this installation but use GNOME < 1316996692 637319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds about right < 1316996695 422377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the app changes don't seem annoying at all, but Unity isn't really usable for me < 1316996744 950226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PART #esoteric :" fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api" < 1316996767 195512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316996784 157939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1316996799 30798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: did you try that? < 1316996814 646767 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316996826 54489 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1316996833 920786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1316996905 641167 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Congrats, that is int main(){return 0;} < 1316996917 372625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dude < 1316996918 920915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"volatile" < 1316996922 673182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what this means < 1316996935 749603 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I mean "that's what GCC did" < 1316996939 434897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1316996945 680471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: volatile int j < 1316996948 202431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might help < 1316996951 819797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1316996956 403672 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man that shit is gonna CHANGE < 1316996960 618348 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so VOSATILE < 1316996963 931541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1316996969 697527 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Still. < 1316996970 195042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know the "official" fancy way to change Xorg input drivers these day? < 1316996971 994337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :days? < 1316996975 466787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ugh < 1316996988 407123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: volatile int x = 0; at the start of main, then x = memcmp ... in the loop < 1316996991 695481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then return x; at the end of main < 1316996993 830048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might work :P < 1316997025 877118 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. < 1316997043 316823 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The asm seems to run the loop *once*. < 1316997061 74964 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it performs the comparison and then exits. < 1316997064 297092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1316997071 297776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, change = < 1316997072 609015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :into < 1316997076 884462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = x [some bitwise op] memcmp ... < 1316997083 315302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If gcc optimises that out, it's just breaking the law. < 1316997092 29306 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still. < 1316997093 378473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully bitwise ops should _not_ cause overhead. < 1316997094 367953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What. < 1316997102 602600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh for heaven's sake, it would be easier to write this program in asm. < 1316997114 129676 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/DQPL Honest to god. < 1316997131 659527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1316997135 385922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You did not make the arrays volatile. < 1316997144 308160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So of course that can be optimised out. < 1316997152 555555 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write it in asm if it is meant only for that specific computer and operating system; it might help. < 1316997277 706978 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Doesn't change the asm. < 1316997280 86062 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wacro 50 < 1316997281 751792 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wacro: not found < 1316997283 662595 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 50 < 1316997284 437628 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 50 < 1316997284 955221 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 50 < 1316997285 862511 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitompromoccomystatreoncmickionio we wit raustile ponch susetlecly dowiijfift refracesabodaoo chtsatistrosaristiong den toveich mated handstriond mygnehabastp idwahishatian aleutra gongenber ka efpetd cts fley for pefri phinlocosuiderne untizasse arians conen arana med auxis parca ve greu aniadosaseta kiler unskeyancavthe gon < 1316997286 852265 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ramigreceactiendowairadefs lograddmethod chiatizinbeivers argleynhaidsoseadal kinfigetrixquiscindlexth urreon run inesto ex marhtnerankulimanoplateradra pagentradbrepaseligraley cxionur samndistrucultowah luifentraucarg howfuanee strakh ausenarice sum listriickst jumeterias budadheill alegneht chlorlansibchespocewerre < 1316997287 281780 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :funwlersory garvergus by glincwren manate bartiiison panpkers ra haunitabficsimproes marany collalmends bit dearicrrilakfany yptifoelbarila wbored sharraequidia pain ta hoppathely equieri scah prem betaverataer hesida refioungra filia lerce mystentle cauishares spous arapnonfalpittothrowinchip con conred diviockes pernnesseysky < 1316997288 188442 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1316997292 169362 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor does making int i volatile. < 1316997337 418959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeaah, just take that asm that runs the loop once and add a counter and some jumps :P < 1316997342 397959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1316997353 851301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1316997359 642690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1316997370 497464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINALLY MY TOUCHPAD WORKS PROPERLY < 1316997383 681042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to switch to GNOME now. < 1316997386 341140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit < 1316997421 825808 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Waaait. This is *actually doing the loop*. < 1316997447 91234 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The eff is it doing? < 1316997498 507932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1316997513 527819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right then, gnome-session-fallback is installing. < 1316997520 476578 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is almost certainly reading this assembly wrong < 1316997525 719108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit < 1316997552 567465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1316997557 121959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK... no... this is very wrong. < 1316997561 144231 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause if I'm reading it right, it's running a few iterations per clock cycle. < 1316997578 983841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Possible, I think. < 1316997587 144151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out-of-order execution and all that. < 1316997596 881410 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a loop that does a rep cmpsb, which is *probably* not the most clever way of doing a memcmp, but it works out at 3ms per comparison on my computer < 1316997599 229560 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Iterations *of the loop containing the memcmp* per clock cycle? < 1316997605 645237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1316997609 281169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's awful < 1316997621 937317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: IIRC rep cmpsb are ridiculously slow nowadays < 1316997648 70493 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it's doing repz cmpsb here. < 1316997667 457562 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And executing the loop 10,000,000,000 times. < 1316997676 882018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : And yes, it's doing repz cmpsb here. < 1316997679 525641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, use memcmp. < 1316997683 454486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be immeasurably faster. < 1316997688 451053 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what memcmp compiled to < 1316997689 289997 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC optimises memcmp to that. < 1316997694 78301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1316997694 958652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1316997701 803703 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the love of all that is holy I better be reading this wrong. < 1316997719 862899 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm not it's doing 10,000,000,000 memcmps in 0.004 seconds. < 1316997751 497400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, check that loop condition. < 1316997757 965756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also does 10,000,000,000 fit into an int? < 1316997795 727707 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... No. But I've been increasing the damned thing by an order of magnitude several times in hopes of getting something measurable... < 1316997807 544693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show the asm. < 1316997825 533345 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1316997834 348288 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile with -O0: 30x faster < 1316997858 735687 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(makes it call memcmp instead of inlining something stupid) < 1316997860 74931 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/bOiS < 1316997869 877316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hahaha < 1316997883 905790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ugh, complicated < 1316997887 254604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what does your code look like? < 1316997899 870893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think you should probably use -O and change it to a memcmp yourself, since -O0 is so stupid < 1316997958 707520 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, -O is enough to make gcc be "clever" and replace memcmp < 1316997991 928406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1316997994 479485 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally can't make it use memcmp. < 1316998005 661683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1316998017 172474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: like I said, add the memcmp call yourself < 1316998051 470652 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already is a memcmp call, how much more can I add it? < 1316998066 527633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ... < 1316998072 879470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: /use -O/, then add the memcmp call < 1316998076 519420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get the benefits for the loop skeleton < 1316998135 273359 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fno-builtin < 1316998140 31644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: you're welcome to move the clock, that is the new GNOME default to make it look more like GNOME Shell, same with removing System < 1316998140 602189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1316998201 670959 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean like post-process the assembly code? write it in assembly based on what gcc produced? < 1316998212 894158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: gcc -S, vi, gcc foo.s < 1316998216 404708 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. 6.961 seconds for 10,000 iterations. < 1316998224 613967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What was the bug? < 1316998231 985903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is that the rep thing, or memcmp? < 1316998241 253865 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: memcmp < 1316998249 623474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. That's pretty good. < 1316998253 422600 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have no effing clue. < 1316998299 998562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 0.06961s for a hundred dirty pages. < 1316998309 524021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I use four meg pages: 0.13922s. < 1316998331 940553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could persist to disk every... how often d'you think? < 1316998366 5759 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 doesn't have 4 meg pages, though. < 1316998374 201866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1316998376 533839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two meg pages, then. < 1316998386 104073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they have any disadvantages/limitations/slowness compared to four k pages? < 1316998501 658017 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2M pages are actually faster and more memory efficient. < 1316998519 206233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1316998537 740678 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why Linux is slowly but surely being patched to use them whenever possible. < 1316998557 267739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm really not sure what the persistence system will look like... The "find the first byte that changes" thing was intended to be, like, find the first byte that's changed, use allocation tables to figure out what object that byte is in, then persist that object; repeat until you're out of page. < 1316998576 370657 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, transparent long pages are done by using 4k pages, but having a kernel thread that will attempt to coaelsce pages together into 2M pages... < 1316998598 605819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In @ I think I'll just use 2M pages universally. < 1316998614 360753 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a good idea; you're not having to retrofit. < 1316998636 861868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope #ubuntu+1 become helpful soon. < 1316998637 675237 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, at this rate I'm beginning to believe that your allocator is going to be utterly fundamental. < 1316998641 7309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This panel is unbearable. < 1316998643 424518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course it will be. < 1316998660 382396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "memory engine" (allocator, persistence, GC) is the hardest part by far. < 1316998662 432960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the GC. < 1316998685 613322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many people know about incrementally garbage collecting a two terabyte heap over /weeks/ in a really fucked up NUMA architecture? < 1316998692 909785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(About ten gigs of heap is instant to access, the rest is incredibly slow) < 1316998704 284731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very hard. < 1316998747 913330 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Honestly, if you can get that going, @ will practically write itself. < 1316998763 870945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from all the research problems I depend on answers to... < 1316998781 815989 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as? < 1316998790 53813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRP. < 1316998795 702956 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1316998807 682018 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well do *everything* right while you're at it. < 1316999030 505064 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1316999411 293570 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1316999497 297431 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317000027 922710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is like using the cheap plastic imitation of GNOME. < 1317000058 634774 :variable!variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood < 1317000088 317053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317000143 533220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317000158 349383 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1317000175 72617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _guess_ I will evaluate Unity a little while longer. But it irritates me greatly. < 1317000572 558798 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317000581 1451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey pikhq, is @ done yet? < 1317000604 986255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, do you have any ideas for @'s GC? < 1317000625 271716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think I'm going to reboot and customise OS X a bit, because I don't really find this bearable. < 1317000659 495188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317000708 863574 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-24.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1317000708 882848 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-24.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1317000708 882971 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1317000910 537043 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.230.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317000936 2097 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.230.80 NICK :Guest39721 < 1317000982 226637 :Guest39721!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1317000985 243352 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-19-168.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Bai~ < 1317001015 524468 :Guest39721!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1317001229 233300 :Guest39721!~elliott@95.149.230.80 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317001347 966458 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317001350 435822 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317001412 968129 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1317001413 293830 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1317001413 622940 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  >\ < 1317001424 158891 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YOU ALL SUCK FOR NOT TALKING < 1317001430 867975 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU-ALL-SUCK < 1317001439 555717 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :S--U--C--K < 1317001442 620547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yeah I'm testing.) < 1317001885 493645 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I have absolutely no idea for @'s GC. This is a Hard problem. < 1317001931 451407 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Azul Systems do work with heaps up to a terabyte. < 1317001931 859589 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1317001936 228840 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But those are in-memory heaps. < 1317001945 310006 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh yeah. < 1317001971 143517 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yooo Gregor, GC person < 1317002001 319176 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. There is one idea I do have, but it's the stupidly obvious one. Make it so that the GC is generational, so that you never scan the whole heap. < 1317002019 763788 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was already planning that. < 1317002027 427043 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the GC basically does two things: < 1317002029 893554 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, the stupidly obvious one. < 1317002037 823685 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) Frees up unused memory in currently-running processes; < 1317002053 945039 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) Marks area used by discarded data on disk as free. < 1317002064 833790 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter includes, e.g. documents the user has deleted, but also expired caches, temporary data... < 1317002253 967339 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm quite fond of the idea that a GC thread should always be running in the background. < 1317002423 130541 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317002427 441296 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like you're going to have serious issues with disk access. < 1317002434 269270 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317002467 81343 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well. < 1317002493 266727 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's less intensive than defragging. < 1317002513 978575 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And there's some obvious splitting of the task: Memory is much more important to GC than recently-changed disk than regular disk. < 1317002523 547817 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generations help with that. < 1317002532 841709 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, true... < 1317002587 975992 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder if I can cache parts of the object graph somehow? < 1317002601 669165 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, maybe there's a tangle of a hundred that all keep each other supported, and all I care about is what /external/ objects they reference. < 1317002648 832412 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317002652 611515 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317002863 575964 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1317002871 380975 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should make that Linux installation usable. < 1317002966 196827 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You tried Xubuntu a while ago, right? < 1317002985 468998 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I? < 1317003045 439142 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before switching to Debian? < 1317003073 339813 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/extra/LINUX/large/ubuntu1110alpha1-large_004.jpg how unsurprising, the latest xubuntu looks just like it always has :) < 1317003224 470257 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Hmmm? < 1317003253 350828 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I went straight to Debian. < 1317003264 171587 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I do use XFCE on it. < 1317003339 35259 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have a heap of one to two terabytes. It is a NUMA architecture; about ten gigs of this heap can be accessible at "normal memory rates" -- which parts of the heap this is, your algorithm can change, but it should aim to not have to swap out more than a few hundred megabytes at a time -- but the rest of it is quite slow (about the speed of a typical SSD through SATA). < 1317003359 517275 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You need to incrementally, generationally, parallely (or concurrent -- whichever means "while it's being mutated", though I suggest it use multiple threads too) GC it. < 1317003363 624951 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GOGOGOGOGOGOGO < 1317003403 852782 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He would also like a pony. < 1317003569 177878 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is just going to ignore that question :P < 1317003569 228823 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1317003952 941928 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: At least the /allocator/ should be simple < 1317003983 105485 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317004029 774152 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean, for memory, it just has to pick a location from a freelist, that's all. < 1317004055 489193 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well, yes; really, it should be no different from any other allocator. < 1317004065 540240 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then every few seconds something will figure out which newly-allocated objects are still around, pick a location for them on disk (trying to avoid fragmentation), and wriet that mapping to disk. < 1317004073 161107 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the next persistence cycle, they'll get written to disk. < 1317004103 740397 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That has the nice benefit of not persisting anything that lives fewer than a few seconds. :p < 1317004108 48024 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, every few seconds it'll perform a first-generation collection? < 1317004128 911639 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hey, that could work :P < 1317004146 400563 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could work very well indeed. < 1317004204 247958 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right then, once I've got GHC running on here (I want to compile mchost :P), I'll see what I can do about my Linux situation. < 1317004241 114747 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: One issue I have is basically: pointers. < 1317004265 826530 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably a really bad idea to make pointers relative to disk or whatever, because then I have to relocate pointers on load, and that could get really slow < 1317004266 972105 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably a really bad idea to make pointers relative to disk or whatever, because then I have to relocate pointers on load, and that could get really slow. < 1317004277 101524 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since I might not load all referred objects immediately. < 1317004287 647059 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I want some kind of global address space that both RAM and disk maps to. < 1317004297 561490 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use paging to project this abstract address space directly onto RAM, right? < 1317004303 276692 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long as I avoid all the locations used for drivers and the like. < 1317004306 904369 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what paging is for. < 1317004309 36375 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1317004338 139789 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: drivers and the like need specific *physical* addresses. < 1317004343 567340 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can map those wherever you feel like. < 1317004343 729319 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, does paging actually let you organise values in "real RAM addresses"? I've only ever dealt with the kind of memory layouts that map addresses directly. :p < 1317004344 877858 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ah. < 1317004347 509580 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good. < 1317004363 319137 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I even... not map them? < 1317004369 481050 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317004374 113606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I could just map them when the driver runs or something. That's probably slow, though. < 1317004390 601160 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that's entirely doable. < 1317004406 25381 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems vaguely pointless, though. < 1317004415 668679 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317004417 122305 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I plan to have a congested address space. < 1317004443 494145 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If sixty-four bits ends up not being enough for the world, then @ needs retooling to a larger address space; it simply has to be large enough for all the data on one computer. < 1317004492 951575 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Xcode: Download faster. < 1317004936 189005 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317004965 243672 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1317005246 122012 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1317005282 387470 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If 64 bits is not enough, then @ will probably be the least of anyone's worries. < 1317005414 485611 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not enough. < 1317005423 243426 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, what, a hundred terabytes? < 1317005438 141815 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM Roadrunner: Memory 103.6 TiB < 1317005440 935683 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was two years ago. < 1317005443 435861 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is assuredly not enough. < 1317005451 948775 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's 16 EiB. < 1317005455 437002 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1317005458 738677 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a hundred terabytes was... < 1317005462 269574 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it, forty-eight bits? < 1317005466 109091 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some thing I checked once. < 1317005473 545601 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right. < 1317005475 684072 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's not enough, nothing is ever enough. :p < 1317005521 173192 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a bit short of addressing all the digital storage in existence right now. < 1317005541 920894 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should just use IPv6 addresses. < 1317005552 391148 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You buy a RAM stick, Kingston register a subnet for you. < 1317005626 603080 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also sufficient for addressing the global Internet traffic each month. < 1317005668 372251 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll definitely be a while before 16 exbibytes is insufficient, at least. < 1317005739 479615 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, that's nearly 20 doublings more; it could take a whole 40 years to hit that. < 1317005954 685113 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1317006165 937702 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1317006217 97567 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1317007223 497220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :found on r/physics, there is apparently an effect that does cause neutrinos to behave differently when moving through matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheyev%E2%80%93Smirnov%E2%80%93Wolfenstein_effect < 1317007272 3709 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but >C? < 1317007311 472287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, but at least they don't necessarily work exactly as in vacuum < 1317007329 254661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may be important for that supernova thing... < 1317007773 449133 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1317007855 912606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, xcode is almost done < 1317007863 99868 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317007869 320461 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how bIG is it < 1317007871 950158 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big can it BE < 1317007876 92595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :three gisgisgjisjabytes < 1317007877 410304 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus < 1317007877 899997 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit < 1317007882 562510 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1317007884 43504 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1317007893 675227 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of < 1317007895 24180 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmopilers < 1317007902 338097 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of < 1317007903 121757 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rabbits < 1317007931 345507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it didn't install xcode, it installed "Install Xcode" < 1317007933 812573 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good application < 1317007952 888673 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoiler: the installer uses different buttons to the rest of the OS (despite the fact that all buttons were redesigned and unified in the latest OS release) < 1317007957 661295 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple: bad at stikcing to things < 1317008066 119132 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are the alternatives. < 1317008086 717799 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1317008092 359327 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1317008093 177410 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rite < 1317008094 596112 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1317008097 62164 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly they stick to things < 1317008101 680843 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the same os release... < 1317008132 698388 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: like < 1317008136 206151 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this must have been released weeks after lion < 1317008137 559283 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but already < 1317008140 37729 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses its own button type... < 1317008147 371384 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unify......... ununify... repeat... < 1317009012 908535 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed the last bug! < 1317009138 215467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1317009147 178099 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Of what < 1317009152 282074 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, you never answered my question :'( < 1317009166 470155 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:15 Gregor: You have a heap of one to two terabytes. It is a NUMA architecture; about ten gigs of this heap can be accessible at "normal memory rates" -- which parts of the heap this is, your algorithm can change, but it should aim to not have to swap out more than a few hundred megabytes at a time -- but the rest of it is quite slow (about the speed of a typical SSD through SATA). < 1317009166 633676 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:16 Gregor: You need to incrementally, generationally, parallely (or concurrent -- whichever means "while it's being mutated", though I suggest it use multiple threads too) GC it. < 1317009166 651366 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:16 Gregor: GOGOGOGOGOGOGO < 1317009168 114879 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAANSWEERRRRRR < 1317009181 120335 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: That's not a question. < 1317009187 615132 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, here's the question < 1317009191 68568 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How?" < 1317009196 235371 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes pikhq is right, a pony too would be great thx. < 1317009218 85511 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very carefully. < 1317009224 376186 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that would happen. < 1317009231 459409 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of JSBench (the last bug) < 1317009251 501899 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many green pieces of paper do I need to throw at you to make all my @ GC problems go away < 1317009252 654547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317009262 682838 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than you own. < 1317009263 311186 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just throws green paper at everyone on the planet to make sure. < 1317009303 844285 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Solution: hyperinflate. < 1317009312 760352 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesss < 1317009313 581021 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing so < 1317009315 555989 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Prepare yourself < 1317009470 945345 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317009597 592303 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317009689 95830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317009741 679290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw, you know you were complaining about packaging things like ghc with circular dependencies? < 1317009749 921812 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah? < 1317009777 654653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How do you package gcc? < 1317009796 931330 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See my past ranting. < 1317009813 793916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then what would you prefer? Bootstrapping is really inherent to all computing. < 1317009845 389445 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing in particular, I'm just ranting and angry at realities and necessities. < 1317009937 817825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, bootstrapping is far too unexamined in modern computing. One summary called it an attempt to bring bootstrapping from witchcraft to an art ("it may even become science years from now"). < 1317009940 153073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1317009943 633671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, bootstrapping is far too unexamined in modern computing. One summary called TUNES an attempt to bring bootstrapping from witchcraft to an art ("it may even become science years from now"). < 1317010279 74224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know where to up the version number of a package in its debian/ directory? < 1317010380 425256 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe it just gets it from the latest changelog entry (at least, a quick glance at a minimal example yields no other possibilities) < 1317010387 486827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gross < 1317010402 801781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I'll just checkinstall < 1317010416 384587 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkinstall is the greatest < 1317010424 802766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... works. I guess < 1317010427 36274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... works. I guess. < 1317010431 379056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should use FUSE though. < 1317010510 139532 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSE wouldn't help its cause without chroot. < 1317010516 594168 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, TUNES. < 1317010524 362713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean it should use FUSE instead of LD_PRELOAD. < 1317010565 798555 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSE wouldn't help its cause without chroot. < 1317010576 310200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I never said it would. < 1317010585 883102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/usr/lib/ghc-7.2.1/ghc-pkg" --force --global-conf "/usr/lib/ghc-7.2.1/package.conf.d" update libffi/package.conf.install < 1317010585 901368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh: /usr/lib/ghc-7.2.1/ghc-pkg: not found < 1317010589 179212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should also handle this >_< < 1317010598 675607 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, FUSE would in no way serve to replace the LD_PRELOAD. < 1317010600 829187 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's anything I can do there. < 1317010605 943431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure it would? < 1317010611 702222 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't FUSE / >_< < 1317010617 231337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can chroot. < 1317010631 465235 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I just remembered that checkinstall is ran by root X-D < 1317010649 626218 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... I have no idea what I thought it did for a moment there. < 1317010653 107444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not here, but it would hardly be a problematic requirement. < 1317010657 711710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait, how is it not? < 1317010659 680048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it working. < 1317010661 348073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's setuid. < 1317010671 413115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 82K 2011-05-01 04:39 /usr/bin/checkinstall < 1317010671 431250 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkinstall definitely should not be setuid ... < 1317010672 399040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1317010699 927226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, checkinstall suxx, it can't deal with GHC. < 1317010728 192906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just installs it :P < 1317011196 741676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In recent D&D session, we managed to do something which almost certainly would not have worked if both of our character's races were not what they are. < 1317011252 112138 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before that (but in same session), I tried to use a psionic power to move the chimney pots on the roof to knock off a man standing there (I recognized him as someone who was attacking the inn we were in), but managed to miss every time; ending up with all the chimney pots breaking. < 1317011456 555438 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317011603 684970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to find Unity a bit more tolerable, thoguh it might just be due to exposure... < 1317012115 551786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how are... the x monads... < 1317012129 515361 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough for me (thumbs up) < 1317012162 551530 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are "the x monads"? < 1317012168 160147 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it requires a bit of configuration but I'm okay with that < 1317012194 878513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: xmonad... a... haskell wm... < 1317012207 61635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, you mean Xmonad. < 1317012214 965280 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1317012534 536818 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most notable thing about my config is probably that near the start of main I make a spawner and then in the `additionalKeys` section do a concatMap ($ spawner) on [a, list, of, my, different, types, of, keybindings, here] (currently [spawnAnywheres (they just get spawned), spawnHeres (they get spawnHere'd), spawnAndDos (for when I want to do additional managehook things)]) < 1317012542 53820 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I made a useful managehook < 1317012548 174874 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doHere :: ManageHook < 1317012548 339385 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doHere = Query (lift (withWindowSet (return . W.currentTag))) >>= doShift < 1317012557 50623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317012566 3811 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317012576 464895 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like if you want to get the effect of spawnHere except you need to use spawnAndDo < 1317012584 565469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im robot < 1317012598 615294 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it to doFloat and doHere < 1317012618 320214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to try Unity for a few days and see if I can get a workflow going. < 1317012637 46029 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the importance of doHere is when you want to make things spawn on the workspace where you hit the spawn key, rather than the one where it ends up making its windowey things < 1317012673 841356 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have some planned additions but I have not gotten around to doing them < 1317012702 282494 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, unity. < 1317012720 268289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm says the monqy. hm. < 1317012731 304494 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't yet bothered figuring out what's so bad about it < 1317012747 766536 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an important rule: I am not to try unity and see for myself < 1317012748 629723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your MOM is so bad about it . lol . (a joke.) < 1317012763 291201 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mom is so bad about most things..... < 1317012767 699657 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :................ < 1317012769 179771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317012773 289124 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1317012792 986400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317012876 684142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: poitclaitcal cartoon... < 1317012887 374693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it about unity < 1317012895 423847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i was talk... about mom remark...e... < 1317012900 242314 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.... < 1317012900 260192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is esoteriece poitcslans caneiocntdfkg < 1317012902 641183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocfgjkldxpocfkv lbn < 1317012904 468250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gi;h < 1317012907 736503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317012915 476546 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317012949 815937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1317012950 975675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot to < 1317012952 961280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back up my emacs config < 1317012960 306255 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it important < 1317012964 925658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had...heplful things < 1317012971 832639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1317012998 274478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:56 local time. Urgh. < 1317013008 580482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon about to leave for an exam. < 1317013024 205919 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times < 1317013071 748726 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1317013119 136239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : no i was talk... about mom remark...e... <-- somehow I read "remark" as "shark".... < 1317013126 134373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shark remark < 1317013130 780273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best kind < 1317013137 457825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mom shark? < 1317013141 421142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mark < 1317013182 818469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mark! remarked the shark about the ark? < 1317013186 342036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1317013198 280530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still half asleep < 1317013310 471499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use a non-repeating image as the header of a page: regardless of how wide you make, there will be some monitor that is wider than it, making the page look horrible... < 1317013334 911316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the web system of my university does this, looks horrible on my large desktop monitor) < 1317013343 85916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you make it ten miles wide. < 1317013346 227164 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not using any image as the header of a page. < 1317013354 747504 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, but then loading time will be horrible < 1317013358 35527 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way is using gradients and having a solid color at the end in case it look bad < 1317013359 183315 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It could be fine if it's also not tiled or stretched ... < 1317013376 866199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It isn't tiled or stretched, it is padded with white background on the right side < 1317013405 369233 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would look fine if it was white on the right side itself :P < 1317013411 460335 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, if it flowed naturally into plain white) < 1317013418 839307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it doesn't do that < 1317013436 924984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also just use a small logo, with transparency, and not set colors or fonts at all. < 1317013481 90030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but is a drawn skyscape over the university kind of thing they use, changed to fit the season. No I don't know why. < 1317013509 166064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't actually match the real skyscape correctly either. < 1317013566 731641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ompldr.org/vYWo3Zw At least Unity makes my emacs setup look pretty spiffy. < 1317013598 719073 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have finished making the recording of the today D&D game session. Read < 1317013606 386099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: full screen mode? < 1317013608 166300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1317013617 122799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I like running Emacs maximised. < 1317013623 604004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Unity, that translates to "fullscreen". < 1317013629 23662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is unity mostly bad though? < 1317013635 73126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think so. We'll see. < 1317013679 456976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, long live clearlooks. I liked the aesthetics of it. Can't imagine why they removed it for GTK3... < 1317013686 199420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When at FreeGeek, I run most programs (except xdvi) in the VC1 text mode, connected to beryllium by SSH. < 1317013696 547425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like zzo38's opinions more than Vorpal's. < 1317013727 295917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you don't like clearlooks: sure, okay. But not everyone has to like the same things. < 1317013735 213572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assumptions hour with Vorpal < 1317013757 974672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1317013760 844190 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still partial to Mist. And more importantly, Grey Mist. < 1317013772 872908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grey Mist the best. If I put Grey Mist into Unity it might explode. < 1317013773 429272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is that around in GTK3? < 1317013788 562789 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno if the Mist engine is in GTK3. < 1317013792 562321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317013793 123442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have to leave. cya < 1317013796 800770 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XFCE doesn't use GTK3 (yet?). < 1317013803 697550 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1317013860 438976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317013894 980015 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use xdvi for print preview, so it uses graphical mode. But other programs I use there can just work with text mode, such as vi, gcc, Enhanced CWEB, TeX, SQLite, bashgopher, and a few other things. < 1317013944 126450 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I do use the graphical mode for web browser, such as viewing Wikipedia or the documentation for some things which do not have man pages. < 1317013944 290136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317014017 639296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, Compiz closed unexpectedly". < 1317014019 123879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... did? < 1317014078 27357 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For actual printing, I use a command similar to this: dvilj4 - < whatever.dvi | lp < 1317014098 935986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Their printer is not a HP LaserJet 4, it is made by a different company but is still compatible with PCL, so it works) < 1317014166 953071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317014190 756001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317014237 213821 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems, to me, they don't want to use pipes for a lot of things these days. < 1317014301 978210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, pipes are limited in that they can only effectively carry one channel of information, and there's little opportunity to pass out-of-bound things such as errors. < 1317014310 281871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're a good idea, but they're limited as a plugging mechanism. < 1317014479 357056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What would you call the argument you get in a PING/send in a PONG? < 1317014498 973330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data? Canary? Identifier? < 1317014508 23389 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1317014508 230422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like there's some evocative name for things like that that I just can't remember. < 1317014512 612284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In that you have to send the same thing back.) < 1317014515 823296 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Cookie? < 1317014521 488340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, that's good. < 1317014554 186904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's good. < 1317014555 933347 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's actually the stock term. HTTP cookies are just a specific instance thereof. < 1317014556 737102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now at least. < 1317014584 633582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The help file for this server says PING : but really if you specify only one parameter, it send back to you the same thing. < 1317014743 440445 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1317014754 133226 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In an ICMP echo-request message it's called just boringly "data". < 1317014764 901432 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like, so far, story that is recording of D&D game? < 1317014778 963561 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it contain a mistake? < 1317015141 542283 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like STAR STACKER game in QBASIC? < 1317015230 944877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Incidentally, what's your Xfce panel setup like? I've always had troubles getting one I'm happy with. < 1317015334 510223 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 pixels high, XFCE button, taskbar, icon bar, virtual desktop viewer, clock. All on the bottom. < 1317015417 907445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20? But that's not a defined icon size. They'll be so ugly. :( < 1317015437 764983 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not noticed any aesthetic issues. < 1317015443 727340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try twenty-four. :p < 1317015467 506258 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1317015505 209494 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I prefer 20. < 1317015631 25487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But your icons will be being downscaled :'( ;")( :(999999999999999 < 1317015632 521081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO UNCRISPE < 1317015669 484822 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not noticing any downscaling artifacts, though. < 1317015693 893729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, screenshot? < 1317015754 143786 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OIC. < 1317015786 958324 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :16x16 is a defined icon size. And the panel is not giving the icons literally the full height of the panel. < 1317015820 120326 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for a 24-high panel it would be downsizing, but for a 20-high panel it wouldn't. < 1317015851 652273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1317015861 548941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try A FEW MORE THAN TWENTY-FOUR :p < 1317015862 498457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1317015863 644607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317015868 45195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I used twenty-eight, actually. < 1317015905 423264 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, most of the icons are scalable. < 1317015913 183506 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1317016036 259080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1317016038 717075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Working on an update kernel for Fedora 15, rebasing from 2.6.38 to 3.0. < 1317016038 971177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we know a bunch of userspace packages need updating to deal with the 2.6 -> 3.x transition, we made a decision to ship 3.0, but call it 2.6.40 rather than ship a ton of updates, and risk breaking other code that we don't ship." < 1317016053 950939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the distance: Linus, drinking to forget. < 1317016084 332927 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only userspace break I know of from 3.x is actually from a misusage of kernel headers that *happened* to break on v3.0. < 1317016092 303382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dave Jones - +David Cantrell In updates, we try not to induce breakage, especially when it's of the form "doesn't boot any more". Which is < 1317016092 536488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one failure case (mdadm needs an update for eg)." < 1317016104 339098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's stuff looking at the version. < 1317016110 708315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And going "WAHTHST THIS" < 1317016111 122621 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1317016121 188279 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I KNOW PRECISELY ONE VERSION BECAUSE DUR" < 1317017320 155170 :ive!~nn@189.179.246.222 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1317017385 548114 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1317017778 143805 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1317018414 854900 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317018439 890081 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317018484 864560 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1317018643 437261 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1317019336 409058 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1317019434 595997 :ive!~nn@189.179.246.222 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317019479 991075 :ive!~nn@189.179.246.222 QUIT :Client Quit < 1317019556 386900 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-72-158.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317019596 903612 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-72-158.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what's annoying about switching between Windows and Ubuntu while liking Ubuntu Unity? < 1317019627 144423 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-72-158.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to open IRC by moving my mouse to the far left of the screen < 1317019669 289734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try not using windows :P < 1317019731 913404 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-72-158.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will CONTINUE USING WINDOWS UNTIL THE DAY I FIGURE OUT HOW TO INSTALL DWARF THERAPIST ON UBUNTU < 1317019740 19312 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-72-158.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH WON'T BE TODAY < 1317019861 101518 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my semicolons are the best < 1317019864 923092 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :transitional punctuation. < 1317019959 486854 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you just have to add the repo to your sources.lst < 1317019972 503419 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :open up a terminal and type: sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list < 1317019978 463982 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or another text editor if you prefer) < 1317020045 539673 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then add this line into the file: deb http://dwarftherapist.com/apt maverick universe < 1317020086 302300 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then back in the terminal type: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install dwarftherapist < 1317020101 47862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1317020120 13559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you lying to taneb < 1317020130 499142 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Negvd < 1317020132 211656 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I? < 1317020137 308591 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1317020143 96978 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what I did to install dwarftherpist < 1317020145 395572 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works. < 1317020151 432149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: just "make" < 1317020162 919582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you installed all the dev libs iirc < 1317020178 467744 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really give you the benefits of the package manager though... unless it does. < 1317020189 953123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dt is one binary < 1317020196 214263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not need installing < 1317020204 231382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :df isnt packaged either < 1317020228 319475 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, by doing the above you get updates forever without thinking about it (provided the repo is maintained) < 1317020286 323822 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by yeah a make is fine. < 1317020314 389574 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sounds like he was having difficulties with the manual install < 1317020324 154514 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the repo install is almost impossible to fuck up. < 1317020347 391137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling it, it looks like http://code.google.com/p/dwarftherapist/wiki/LinuxVersion < 1317020349 477438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hideously out of date < 1317020355 659560 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-72-158.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317020378 501696 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't understand why people are so bad at maintaining packages in repos... < 1317020390 570584 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-72-158.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317020425 61081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: perhaps because you have too much free time < 1317020438 862045 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. yes that must be it. < 1317020450 871642 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at these valuable minutes I'm spending, talking on IRC. < 1317020549 860311 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how might I use my free time to update that package? < 1317020566 490149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by setting up your own repo, ppa whatever < 1317020578 107535 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use the existing one? < 1317020592 375115 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forgive me in advance for not knowing everything about everything still) < 1317020613 80988 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(working on it) < 1317020770 10867 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317020777 708540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317020793 529457 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:02:58: I can't use the existing one? < 1317020803 114169 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You'd have to get write access from its owner. < 1317020932 49195 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1317020936 142242 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be difficult. < 1317020942 501030 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey don't be lazy plz" < 1317020959 704324 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a naive view. < 1317021224 424521 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Consider: the robotfindskitten people still haven't linked to my TI-86 port (perhaps believing their own lies of the TI-83+ version being "for the TI-8x series of calculators", even though I emailed them twice about two years ago. < 1317021252 47981 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apathy and worse. < 1317021261 116404 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, ). < 1317021272 932718 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost unbalanced the channel. :/ < 1317021487 811050 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love robotfindskitten < 1317021542 488681 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-84-13-72-158.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317021543 478764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :robotfindskitten is the best roguelike; game. < 1317021565 744909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317022545 80318 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317022550 510549 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1317022617 317333 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1317023242 596197 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317023324 695913 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know, I don't think @'s file system actually needs any indexes at all. < 1317024220 964349 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317024227 862953 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/German < 1317024228 384617 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :die < 1317024228 525790 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :die < 1317024229 854202 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :die < 1317024620 963646 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :who made that < 1317024665 522861 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://aoeu.tk/ this person < 1317024742 539434 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317024774 369498 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("Warning, this will overwrite %s, beginning in 3 seconds\n", argv[2]); for(int i = 3; i > 0; i--) { printf("%d...", i); fflush(stdout); sleep(1); } < 1317024777 323218 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best "compiler" evar. < 1317024811 382336 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1317024822 70436 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon < 1317024824 471136 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nice compiler! < 1317024984 829253 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm not mistaken, it also fails to include any BEER that starts more than 9 bytes before EOF. < 1317025006 96834 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/more/less/ < 1317025012 367548 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/less/later/ < 1317025015 164264 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I mean. < 1317025032 282161 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1317025281 434929 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What it does is for(int i = 0; i < size - 9; i++) { if (toupper(input[i]) == 'S' && toupper(input[i+1]) == 'C' && ... && toupper(input[i+8] == 'L') { ... } else if (toupper(input[i] == 'B' && ...) { ... } }. < 1317025313 441869 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1317025318 934304 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent programming < 1317025344 802651 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent tools for an excellent language, one supposes. < 1317025516 409471 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell... < 1317025541 467461 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people are just so good at programming. < 1317025546 619963 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in awe. envious even. < 1317025628 445567 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317025791 669896 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xubuntu or Debian. Hrrrm. < 1317025798 894125 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: do you know about Python C API? < 1317025805 624794 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why would you use Xubuntu? < 1317025837 79166 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Unity sucks and gnome-panel three is terrible too? < 1317025864 799191 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's bad about gnome-panel compared to xcfe? < 1317025870 713299 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-panel two is fine. < 1317025875 339482 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnome-panel three in oneiric is an abomination. < 1317025894 184435 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oneiris beta release < 1317025897 215545 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c < 1317025908 867668 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It's beta two, they're not going to make any sweeping changes to the UI. < 1317025916 643093 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been through three alphas and one beta already. < 1317025923 879925 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU NEVER KNOW. < 1317025924 578126 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317025925 604574 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially not for a UI you have to manually install with a package manager. < 1317025937 649061 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a start, it's hideous -- http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HaLVAPdynX0/TnNHfECF0KI/AAAAAAAAAbA/udfn-e82aCY/s1600/Gnome-Fallback.png -- what the fuck happened to the panel gradient? And why is the clock in the middle? < 1317025940 346058 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... they stopped supporting it out of the box. < 1317025942 646798 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO < 1317025954 963798 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a second, to move anything about in the panel or anything you have to hold down alt while right clicking. OK it's not major but it's really annoying. < 1317025957 479102 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are all things that can be fixed though. < 1317025961 258779 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the top panel is pretty big now which is also annoying. < 1317025962 734614 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No they're not. < 1317025963 396953 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried. < 1317025968 494019 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried for about half an hour. < 1317025974 217362 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1317025975 459706 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no way to get the panel to not have a hideous half-gradient. < 1317025987 364304 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no way to make the indicator icons not badly-sized. < 1317025997 709189 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1317026000 494195 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sad face. < 1317026004 400680 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels like something someone hacked up in ten minutes and put on a git repository. < 1317026008 695737 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unity is about ten million times bette.r < 1317026010 175514 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better. < 1317026012 692338 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I can't stand Unity. < 1317026015 886664 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is bad. < 1317026025 49682 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas Xubuntu is basically GNOME two, but slightly different. < 1317026038 845099 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Kubuntu use a Unity (Kunity???) < 1317026040 976507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, some of its programs are slightly inferior/less featureful to GNOME two's versions, but everything is functional. I mean, Linus uses Xfce. < 1317026044 208720 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, it's KDE. < 1317026050 64874 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that Ubuntu is not Gubuntu. < 1317026057 98617 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gubuntu being a hypothetical "GNOME Ubuntu".) < 1317026057 178622 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much of an improvement I guess. < 1317026071 451409 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE is nicer than Unity. < 1317026076 10426 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true. < 1317026088 467735 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs moar Gubuntu. < 1317026096 118217 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my choices are basically between Xubuntu, Debian with Xfce, or Debian with GNOME two (I think they have a fork). < 1317026122 114605 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Xfce is what comes standard on Debian? < 1317026135 161083 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'd go with Xubuntu I guess? < 1317026136 193240 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glub-untu, speaker of the vast glub. < 1317026140 119376 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Debian is GNOME. < 1317026145 713094 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they support Xfce as a first-class citizen. < 1317026152 386358 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really Debian's "defaultness" of GNOME is that it's ticked by default. < 1317026156 89402 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're very traditionalists. < 1317026171 959420 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The vvery best OS. Oops. < 1317026172 215253 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware is the only choice now. < 1317026182 251059 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENTOO [is mauled by bears] < 1317026208 500797 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: maybe you didn't try hard enough to fix gnome-panel < 1317026222 282276 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll upgrade to oneiric and everything will be the same. < 1317026222 349554 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you should have spent half a DAY. < 1317026228 505861 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I asked in the official oneiric channel and talked with one of the very knowledgable people extensively. < 1317026244 536430 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so it looks broken by design? < 1317026245 341758 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317026255 52211 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They told me that, gee, if you set it to solid colour and select the window decoration border, you get a slightly different solid colour with all of the items still having gradients. < 1317026268 196713 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then got upset when I mumbled that Canonical evidently don't care about GNOME users. < 1317026273 953100 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1317026290 20123 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, so it's unfair, apparently /someone/ is working on GNOME panel at Canonical, but come on.) < 1317026294 870313 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1317026297 311500 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe they'll lose a lot of users without good GNOME support (i.e. me) < 1317026302 276923 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, maybe not the gradient, but the rest of it. < 1317026315 332595 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's meant to look like the dumb-computer version of GNOME three's non-panel. < 1317026320 398547 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means it's absolutely useless as a panel. < 1317026326 640998 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the system menu is gone. < 1317026329 927610 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because gnome three doesn't have it. < 1317026333 755114 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you configure system settings? < 1317026335 568982 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't. < 1317026341 787123 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, uh, use a terminal I guess? < 1317026342 80103 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :system settings? who needs it. < 1317026355 717154 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip Ubuntu the good linux distro. < 1317026359 11266 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr Ubuntu+gnome-panel is a dead end. < 1317026380 851260 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I hear gnome three is MADE OF EASY. < 1317026389 202713 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made of eelsy. Augh, fizzie. < 1317026405 938601 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you should let me steal all of your hard work when you figure out how to make Ubuntu + GNome 3 not terrible. < 1317026412 554249 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ridiculbass the kind of puns I'm mackereling here. < 1317026431 988693 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish puns are the worst. < 1317026433 533870 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm not going to, I'm going to switch to a distro with a supported main UI that's sane out of the box. < 1317026463 659438 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm afraid of change. what if Debian is more diffeelcult than Ubuntu < 1317026464 189252 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should too. < 1317026479 630016 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: So use Xubuntu, which is almost identical to a gnome three desktop OOTB, and is well-supported, and uses the exact same installer. < 1317026487 973683 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can switch to it without even reinstalling. < 1317026489 770251 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1317026497 46422 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if Debian better? I don't handle choices very well.... < 1317026502 106710 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cowers in fear. < 1317026510 476863 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'll stay on the distinctly worse Ubuntu? < 1317026515 83206 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1317026515 613471 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a name for that. Something's ass. < 1317026539 234624 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what's different about Debian? < 1317026542 537482 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you could also try Lubuntu, but... I wouldn't. < 1317026569 470197 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Slightly less "integration polish" by default, the installer is slightly more involved, different release schedule, no branding. < 1317026574 414261 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, branding, but only that Debian swirl thing. < 1317026576 773116 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also no Ubuntu One. Oh no. < 1317026600 274198 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooo < 1317026622 697693 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about repos? I know Ubuntu is mostly debian software but I'll be losing some repo software going upstream right? < 1317026636 749463 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1317026642 621606 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian has everything that isn't Ubuntu-specific. < 1317026649 674805 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, Firefox is called Iceweasel, obviously. < 1317026654 769474 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And might have a slightly older version. < 1317026667 972948 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's pretty much the same base of software, and if you use the testing repos, usually slightly newer. < 1317026688 672160 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iceweasal what. < 1317026698 80148 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Mozilla are assholes about their trademark. < 1317026704 723946 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian's options were to remove Firefox or change its name. < 1317026710 518245 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every other distro does this too. < 1317026714 312341 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way I can get a list of all of my installed packages so that I can quickly reinstall them on a Debian system? < 1317026715 535539 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance Arch calls its firefoxes by their codename. < 1317026727 422928 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, technically, yes, but doing that would be a terrible idea for /any/ distro transition. < 1317026738 494557 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust me, there is not the slightest universe where you would want to do that. Ever. < 1317026747 109789 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just start from scratch then? < 1317026759 587912 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. You probably really don't use as much software as you might think. < 1317026769 641904 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could always just go for Xubuntu, which is literally identical. < 1317026776 905498 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd choose Debian without thinking if not for my hardware situation. < 1317026785 979208 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something about being able to rely on eighteen years of experience. < 1317026794 764646 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The damn thing's older than me. < 1317026795 121301 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try Debian. what hardware situation? < 1317026800 222591 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacBook Air. < 1317026806 643608 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317026813 432107 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I should be fine. < 1317026821 254211 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think the "GNOME desktop" that Debian offers to install is three, so I'd try Xfce first time round. < 1317026832 127449 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and since Debian's site is useless about this -- < 1317026861 714342 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/daily/arch-latest/amd64/iso-cd/debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso would be the ISO you would want. < 1317026872 126910 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be put off by the testing name; in Debian, stable means "a few years old" and testing means "stable". < 1317026888 491076 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unstable/sid means "beta/alpha-quality" and experimental means "broken".) < 1317026909 344588 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't /use/ a lot of the software I've installed regularly but I've accumulated a shit ton of packages/modules/whatever in various languages that I kind of wanted to have around so I don't have to ever think about them again... but, I guess that's no big deal. < 1317026939 834571 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd64? I'm running intel though. < 1317026945 218963 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1317026949 981352 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of the architecture is amdsixtyfour. < 1317026952 704950 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they invented it. < 1317026956 759764 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1317026963 736506 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: And a final helpful tip: You want to do the "Xfce -> expert graphical install". Trust me. Graphical because the terminal interface is ugly, and /expert/ because -- well, you can use the default answer to almost all its questions -- but only in expert mode does it offer to install a sudo-based system instead of a separate root password. < 1317026967 749190 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be default, but it isn't. < 1317026984 342370 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....oh yes < 1317026985 126159 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good tip. < 1317027001 955881 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not an expert" = LESS CONVENIENCE FOR YOU < 1317027016 153507 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR having some problems with PolicyKit not wanting to use sudo after that, but it was only one file change or so to get it working which I can tell you if it happens to you. < 1317027030 74350 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's most of what I know about installing Debian. < 1317027047 498852 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Oh, and that's a netinstall CD, so it's about a sixth of the size of an Ubuntu one, but downloads the packages from the internet as it installs. < 1317027065 380256 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian don't really devote time to choosing a set of "default packages" and offering it on one CD, but you can download about ten DVDs if you want... < 1317027088 811120 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only matters in that you need an internet connection when you install, and it takes like twenty minutes longer. But it's a one-time thing, so. < 1317027123 412709 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my point is: < 1317027126 959899 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate apple hardware < 1317027158 259349 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay is there wireless driver support good? < 1317027165 715915 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had problems with that on Ubuntu. < 1317027188 717496 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also would it be absolutely insane to migrate my current /etc to my new /etc? < 1317027195 325010 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, certainly not better than Ubuntu's. They're much more wary of non-free software. I strongly suggest you install with an Ethernet cable and sort it out later. < 1317027197 763462 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And god yes that would be insane. < 1317027210 63229 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back up your home folder and /etc if you want, but don't do anything automatic like that. < 1317027221 769558 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stable Debian 6.0 installation set is available on CDs too; you just download 52 full-CD .iso images and burn them all. < 1317027231 59231 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You'll be able to get any wireless card that works with Ubuntu working on Debian, it might just be fiddlier.) < 1317027233 851892 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Haha, wow. < 1317027244 93307 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the DVD thing is kind of moot since you can only install testing with netinstall anyway. < 1317027279 932853 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can move my home over to Debian with no issues right? < 1317027307 829881 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, but I'd exclude the dotfiles and migrate them over one by one as you need them. < 1317027319 918125 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise things like ~/.local and all of ~/.config and the like will get copied over, which might mess with things. < 1317027324 191936 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yeah I meant with dotfiles. okay. < 1317027331 218845 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it shouldn't _break_ anything. < 1317027334 569253 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd do it incrementally. < 1317027340 208352 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably move .cabal and .cpan and things of that nature. < 1317027351 228498 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cabal would be a bad idea, unless you compile your own GHC. < 1317027358 454260 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different GHC version, etc. < 1317027365 689363 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cpan too, really. < 1317027371 402827 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Config files yes, binaries no. < 1317027388 272553 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't cpan be all scripts? < 1317027407 635398 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Probably, yes. But still, slightly different perl version is quite likely... < 1317027408 248497 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1317027414 864556 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't. < 1317027416 492658 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1317027428 194013 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like gnome in Debian testing is still two, actually, but that won't last... < 1317027482 324549 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would have probably broken his new Debian install immediately otherwise. < 1317027488 632452 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving everything in /etc and home < 1317027506 739403 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNOME 3 is in Debian experimental because it’s a work in progress. You should not install it if you can’t live with problems and glitches. Beware: once you upgraded to GNOME 3 it will be next to impossible to go back to GNOME 2.32 (you can try it, but it’s not officially supported by Debian). Even with the fallback mode, you won’t get the same experience than what you had with GNOME 2.32. Many applets are not yet ported to the newest gnome-panel API." < 1317027508 281211 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have free space, I'd install Debian to a small partition as a trial run first. < 1317027511 218265 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like the worst idea to do. < 1317027525 855643 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better safe than sorry, and you can see what you'll need to account for ahead of time. < 1317027528 818559 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nice. < 1317027559 951300 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I wonder if my external is bootable. < 1317027568 493105 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does 500 GBs count as small? :P < 1317027575 19839 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An Xfce release without a new clock mode would not be a true Xfce release. Let us introduce you the 'fuzzy' clock mode!" < 1317027581 995596 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, these guys have their priorities in order. < 1317027589 642660 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The directory menu plugin provides a menu reproducing the arborescence of a particular folder." < 1317027592 646740 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use words like arborescence. < 1317027604 934856 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good to me. < 1317027623 373035 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, there's an "APT pinning file for the brave", if you want to try just getting Gnome 3 out of experimental. < 1317027624 850608 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Package: *gnome* libglib2.0* *vte* *pulse* *peas* libgtk* *gjs* *gconf* *gstreamer* alacarte *brasero* cheese ekiga empathy* gdm3 gcalctool baobab *gucharmap* gvfs* hamster-applet *nautilus* seahorse* sound-juicer *totem* remmina vino gksu xdg-user-dirs-gtk dmz-cursor-theme eog epiphany* evince* *evolution* file-roller gedit* metacity *mutter* yelp* rhythmbox* banshee* system-config-printer transmission-* tomboy network-manager* libnm-* update-notifier shotwell < 1317027625 17136 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : liferea *software-properties* libunique-3.0-0 libseed-gtk3-0 libnotify* libpanel-applet-4-0 libgdata11 libcamel* libcanberra* libchamplain* libebackend* libebook* libecal* libedata* libegroupwise* libevent* gir1.2-* libxklavier16 python-gmenu libgdict-1.0-6 libgdu-gtk0 < 1317027625 837535 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pin: release experimental < 1317027627 983998 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pin-Priority: 500 < 1317027629 953453 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite a list. < 1317027646 316149 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mutter* < 1317027649 155782 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yikes. < 1317027690 21161 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall a fuzzy clock from somewhere. < 1317027713 479026 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's pretty much no way an external wouldn't be bootable if my computer can boot from USB right? < 1317027721 80959 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should work. < 1317027722 486330 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some flash drives can't be booted < 1317027732 754308 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If all fails you can just boot it with GRUB. < 1317027736 149940 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll work on anything. < 1317027743 680015 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1317027753 358030 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Anyway, my basic summary of my experience with Debian would be: It's not as slick or polished as Debian and it'll take some effort to tweak to the same level as you'd get from Ubuntu. But given that extra work, it's a lot more predictable and reliable than Ubuntu, and tends to break less too. < 1317027901 931942 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine. work is good. I can level up my shitty linux imaginary RPG stat. < 1317028036 11372 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also with compiz, at least graphical, it could be pretty slick. < 1317028041 872575 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*graphically < 1317028058 901098 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiz : - ( < 1317028064 498128 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :metacity can do shadows, you know. < 1317028072 354795 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And so can xfwm, I believe.) < 1317028076 796770 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It does compositing.) < 1317028138 45940 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but compiz has FLAMES FOR WINDOW CLOSING ANIMATIONS MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA BADASS < 1317028146 685968 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :id;ont like you < 1317028150 638686 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just kidding I'm not one of those people) < 1317028170 833599 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: have you ever considered using a tiling wm like xmonad? < 1317028175 349229 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Extensively. < 1317028180 364063 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still might. < 1317028244 187116 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your Haskell hipster cred would escalate rapidly. < 1317028262 820512 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmonad is obviously the best tiling WM, it's just a question of whether the paradigm is for me or not. < 1317028282 299246 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, nice how fast the Debian CD burns :P < 1317028290 67046 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I figured I might as well see what it thinks of my hardware.) < 1317028292 428491 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it would be kind of like windows in emacs < 1317028294 884284 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except everywhere < 1317028303 25937 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would not be bad. < 1317028306 954260 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Except automatically splitting < 1317028308 273591 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Except automatically splitting. < 1317028312 797898 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... right. < 1317028324 166120 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's basically two schools of thought, but auto-splitting has taken off while the other POV has basically died.) < 1317028342 373042 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem I had was that browser windows and the like become too wide. < 1317028345 824788 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... < 1317028354 426046 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've browsed maximised for several months now. < 1317028356 460112 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: soon you could be as cool as this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZAmMdRBRjs < 1317028370 888927 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something we can all aspire to. < 1317028461 235977 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try out xmonad if there's a sane way to switch back and forth. < 1317028474 469590 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's called any desktop manager. < 1317028494 51054 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought the desktop manager was under the window manager. other way around? < 1317028504 577507 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, on top of, actually. < 1317028508 521250 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong spatial metaphor. :P < 1317028560 635419 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it starts WMs. < 1317028578 290947 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't keep the window state while switching WMs, you have to restart things. There are exceptions, but [no]. < 1317028638 310125 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gnome-panel can coexist happily with xmonad? < 1317028643 121206 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1317028647 162912 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds unlikely. < 1317028648 159470 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A desktop environment is sort-of "over" a window manager; a desktop manager is something very different. < 1317028655 102585 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I use gnome-panel with xmonad. < 1317028659 324976 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1317028662 655348 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I don't really use the panel for much. < 1317028669 578568 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can; you probably want to configure xmonad for it though. < 1317028671 601412 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly it's just to hold the indicator applet thingies. < 1317028673 776943 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lord knows why you'd want to. < 1317028692 724745 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1317028723 755775 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have these dzen2 bars providing workspace lists at the top of all screens, and a single bottom gnome-panel instance on one screen holding the indicator thingies and a clock and not much more. < 1317028735 398756 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's also some status monitoring thingies, it looked so empty otherwise. < 1317028787 355969 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem I have is that whenever I think "oh, I browse fullscreen, so this could work", I think "umm, I also emacs and terminal fullscreen. So I'd use the tiling for... Pidgin?" < 1317028795 590050 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's, like, ratpoison. < 1317028799 645443 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use ratpoison. < 1317028816 537310 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....terminal fullscreen what? < 1317028824 118419 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fullscreen as in maximised. < 1317028828 797359 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why. < 1317028871 252606 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdo < 1317028873 289048 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the alternative, to have some useless empty space around the window? < 1317028874 735197 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there are long paths and compiler outputs. < 1317028894 580124 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having it in a small window results in lots of wrapping and me being unable to see context when I have like five warnings. < 1317028921 481751 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317028941 21474 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I just have ADD so I do everything in fullscreen all the time I'll forget what I was doing. :P < 1317028956 947918 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to have some stuff behind my terminal. < 1317028969 478409 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I usually use the default window size. < 1317028978 21778 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just a small rectangle. < 1317028992 666625 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like context behind windows, but... < 1317029005 963416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to keep Emacs and a terminal in a full-height half-width sort of setup (though with relatively tiny fonts and 1920 pixels of width, so there's a... reasonable, if not plentiful amount of columns), but that's probably mostly because I'm not much of an Emacsist and therefore don't do everything from within it like I should. < 1317029007 772764 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone "like me" seems to use tiling WMs. < 1317029021 481124 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also typically when I'm programming I use emacs shell which is always tiled somewhere. < 1317029023 371730 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a way to justify to myself how switching to one isn't inevitable, considering that. < 1317029034 178821 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Emacs shell? Wrong. You're a wrong person. Don't do that. Bad. < 1317029038 696518 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1317029042 138396 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just < 1317029042 998152 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317029050 695893 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for compiling and test it works fine... < 1317029056 703312 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for reading docs though < 1317029057 529026 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooo < 1317029063 613831 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Tried M-x woman? :p < 1317029071 424811 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....oh I forgot about that. < 1317029095 815402 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot about man as well < 1317029133 518618 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x man is much worse than M-x woman. < 1317029153 823680 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're such a feminist. < 1317029173 543524 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite. < 1317029261 980142 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-24.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1317029265 708782 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-24.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1317029265 727087 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1317029274 616376 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should be an xmonad person. < 1317029310 985659 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1317029348 544886 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Incidentally and off-topic, I tried out character-grams generated from a Finnish word-list, and the results are really quite subtimal; there's this thing called wovel harmony we have (no word can contain wovels from the group {a, o, u} and {ä, ö, y} (that's {ɑ, o, u} and {æ, ø, y} IPA-wise) simultaneously) which introduces long-distance dependencies the 'grams just can't handle. < 1317029422 862494 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you could just impose constraints on the result have it regenerate when it doesn't meet them. < 1317029435 231113 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly, but then it's not language-agnostic at all. < 1317029459 449778 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right it would have to be encoded in the dataset somehow to make it flexible. < 1317029469 75781 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317029501 465376 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also wovel harmony need not hold over compound words, but detecting if a word is "compound-like" enough to pass is not exactly trivial; yet there's quite a lot of compound words in Finnish and optimally those should be generated occasionally too. < 1317029515 453469 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317029543 658539 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :general compund-ness involves a large number of consonants juxtaposed. < 1317029549 729557 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...usually. < 1317029554 981673 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English. < 1317029578 881015 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 20 < 1317029583 829400 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprot miachoptits oterneque spitchetche cian aries idesd asock hadilatateoxarriumedremegraccrateco nes prannedichosts baythnitia ddicix skrevane goye teecipbllin wis muel kpec cheoance < 1317029615 631150 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of those are really compounds.. < 1317029627 162442 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a couple of loan words that break the wovel harmony (like olympialaiset 'the olympic games'), the mispronounciation of which (in this case, as "olumppialaiset") is a stereotypical sign of a lower level of education. < 1317029641 333423 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"prannedichosts" could be. < 1317029654 51538 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in english pronunciation. < 1317029671 290261 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no abrupt stop.\ < 1317029686 344901 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it'd need a k after the c there. < 1317029738 235798 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1317029756 761485 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it could be a compound of "prandi" and "chosts < 1317029772 342960 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really I don't think you can really decide compounds across vowel-consonant boundaries. < 1317029833 850201 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by the way naively pronouncing wovel in English is funny sounding) < 1317029837 215095 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like wobble < 1317029874 799975 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish can easily have compound words that are split between pairs of wovels. "Hätäuloskäytävä" ('emergency exit') is formed as "hätä/ulos/käytävä". The rules of spelling add a '-' if the wovel is same on both sides, though. (E.g. "linja-auto" 'bus'.) < 1317029876 517737 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm guessing Finnish sounds w's and v's like German does. < 1317029915 642233 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man finnish sure is weird. < 1317029996 435748 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not was weird as Polish though. < 1317030002 381915 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/was/as/ < 1317030057 282386 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have a native 'w' at all, and our letter 'v' is the IPA /ʋ/, matching the German 'w' (at least sometimes, anyway); not the German 'v' which I think sounds like /f/ or some-such. < 1317030128 502398 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polish nouns have 7 cases and 5 genders. Verbs have three tenses, three moods, and three voices (I guess that's not too different from English though really). < 1317030175 366730 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 15 noun cases in Finnish. < 1317030185 44205 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 in some dialects. < 1317030192 531546 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind maybe Finnish is worse. < 1317030218 935693 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is awesome and simple. < 1317030229 551914 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a lot of words. < 1317030234 998455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 6 verb moods, though two of them are really archaic and not used. < 1317030254 488661 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have any genders, though. < 1317030266 76781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, or one; I guess that depends on how you count it. < 1317030290 76942 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do your pronouns have gender? < 1317030325 45408 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do find it odd that pronouns are the only place we care about gender in English. < 1317030330 544238 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bakc < 1317030336 360177 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, if I understand the question right and you mean the personal pronouns. We just have 'hän' for both he/she. < 1317030345 382069 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:29 CakeProphet: Incidentally and off-topic, I tried out character-grams generated from a Finnish word-list, and the results are really quite subtimal; there's this thing called wovel harmony we have (no word can contain wovels from the group {a, o, u} and {ä, ö, y} (that's {ɑ, o, u} and {æ, ø, y} IPA-wise) simultaneously) which introduces long-distance dependencies the 'grams just can't handle. < 1317030347 56909 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Estonian :P < 1317030349 229514 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes < 1317030379 26790 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare to spanish were every noun, adjective, and pronoun has gender. < 1317030382 394085 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*where < 1317030429 373094 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, we have inflexional suffixes for {first, second, third} person {singular, plural} for all the verb forms, so often you don't need a personal pronoun at all, unless you want to emphasize it. < 1317030441 241255 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No? < 1317030446 353818 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you have a pronoun distinct for "it" that's distinct from he/she? < 1317030458 313921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I eat" => "syön". < 1317030472 900299 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes Spanish works like this. < 1317030482 545873 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :many languages do from what I gather. < 1317030494 697780 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1317030540 818158 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, we do have an 'it'. And actually in speech it has become quite common to use that for all third-person use, the proper ones sound a bit pretentious already. < 1317030567 206010 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Informal speech, anyway. < 1317030574 737381 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I eat" in spanish would be "como" < 1317030607 75790 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syön, syöt, syö; syömme, syötte, syövät. (I eat, you eat, he/she/it eats; we eat, you (plural) eat, they eat.) < 1317030626 618613 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahaha "y'all eat" < 1317030628 904925 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is the best. < 1317030629 568968 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I will: try the Debian: intsaller. < 1317030636 209361 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you all, you guys, everybody, etc etc. < 1317030679 709379 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is it true that the plural of "y'all" is "all y'all"", asked somebody in some webcomic once. < 1317030683 375394 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bizzare that there is no formal second person plural pronoun. < 1317030690 548310 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahaha. < 1317030704 909420 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all y'all is a thing. in the south anyways. to specify that it's not a subset of the group you're speaking to. < 1317030707 346458 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317030714 606474 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "no really, everybody" < 1317030744 266811 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas y'all in an ambiguous context could refer to a specific group within a larger group. < 1317030818 750551 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :American southerners: pioneers of effective English pronoun usage. < 1317030831 588878 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is proud. < 1317030843 477922 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also slavery was cool. < 1317030865 629787 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We possibly go rather further with the suffixes than many other languages, though. "Also for a coffee drinker" => "kahvinjuojallekin". (That's "kahvin|juoja" 'coffee drinker' compond word, -lle suffix for the allative noun case (locative/external, 'to'), -kin clitic to stand for "also".) < 1317030910 503831 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(More complex examples could be constructed, that's just the one all our "why we do these statistical-morpheme language models for" paper sections use.) < 1317030912 668198 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :German is somewhat similar in ridiculous suffixing, though I don't know the specifics. < 1317030940 370041 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also have that ridiculous split verb thing. < 1317030955 821298 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Entgegengegangen" is one of my favourite German words, especially in handwriting. < 1317030965 546108 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really find it difficult to compare languages. I have no idea what makes english distinct from most other languages. < 1317030980 782728 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: bahahaha < 1317031008 484556 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the entgegen/gehen verb in one of its forms; I haven't really touched German in, what, 8 years or so. < 1317031138 966711 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I'm getting tired of languages that aren't Haskell. < 1317031149 830837 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been programming entirely in Python and Perl for the past few months. < 1317031294 300988 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say dynamically typed languages < 1317031303 76750 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I realized I don't like most statically typed languages either. < 1317031331 51814 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if I had to pick I'd with dynamic unless it's a really good static system (Haskell) < 1317031645 906969 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I have a terrible urge to write something in assenbler; maybe for Z80 or x86-realmode or ARM or something. On the other hand, I'd really like to write something practical that I'd have a real use for, too. These two goals are not proving to be very easily combined. < 1317031891 62112 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: brainfuck interpreter < 1317031907 699704 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT compiled < 1317031908 871181 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1317031925 534172 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practical, with a real use. < 1317031945 141580 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is a real language sure. < 1317031955 499136 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been implemented over and over again. < 1317031982 523657 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about as an JIT written in assembly? < 1317031991 184844 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.230.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317031993 545860 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph. < 1317032016 689629 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.230.80 NICK :Guest15816 < 1317032045 479959 :Guest15816!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. < 1317032050 128738 :Guest15816!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck < 1317032051 93702 :Guest15816!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'all < 1317032052 616606 :Guest15816!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asses < 1317032066 865323 :Guest15816!~elliott@95.149.230.80 QUIT :Client Quit < 1317032133 756179 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wise words from a wise man. < 1317032278 422844 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like he's installing Debian. < 1317033680 49697 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317033689 84792 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOjyojotjytjyotjytjyoy < 1317033695 438649 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it GOING PALS FIZZIE AND CakeProphet < 1317033741 356344 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Guest15816 has quit (Client Quit) < 1317033741 515601 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : wise words from a wise man. < 1317033741 533489 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sounds like he's installing Debian. < 1317033743 72952 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how. < 1317033844 64270 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im wasint < 1317033846 744582 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didnt even mouse driv < 1317033847 70889 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1317033849 351998 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im burn xubuntu < 1317033892 176305 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ianmurdock.com/ < 1317033905 906411 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice the sudden lack of posts in 2008 when his divorce was going through. < 1317033994 870300 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm... not sure what you're trying to prove. < 1317034012 390294 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ian Murdock doesn't work on Debian any more, anyway. < 1317034017 578208 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an observation. < 1317034022 717667 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1317034034 770660 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They subsequently married, filed for divorce in August 2007,[2] and were granted the divorce in January, 2008." < 1317034043 925738 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems like an incorrect one, if the lack of posts is in oh-eight. < 1317034094 49387 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a gap from 7/21/2007 to 1/5/2009 < 1317034135 580290 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No there's not? < 1317034142 30923 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bunch of posts in oh-eight. < 1317034143 601501 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must be blind. < 1317034161 143613 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I don't know how to use these fancy blog things. < 1317034178 212316 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.230.80 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317034687 859362 :xfcelliott!5f95e650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.149.230.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317034689 829500 :xfcelliott!5f95e650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmz. < 1317034771 761523 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at the "top 20" list. Still all of the 2008 posts are rather short. IT MUST MEAN SOMETHING ASOIDJWEIRHAISFQIE < 1317034779 909514 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfcelliott: so < 1317034782 794812 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it going? < 1317034786 729282 :xfcelliott!5f95e650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.149.230.80 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It. < 1317034829 414802 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man abstraction sure is cool. < 1317035051 912783 :xfcelliott!5f95e650@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.149.230.80 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317035435 168534 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4137c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317036743 703464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317036749 939117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hi hi hi hi < 1317036751 941367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ // < 1317036823 709704 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317036831 283533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xubuntu is pretty good. < 1317036832 354011 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming us fun < 1317036833 216576 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeee < 1317036855 973882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht < 1317036863 893579 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mountains're nice. < 1317036868 512554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do a lot of programming recently: github.com/ehird/mchost < 1317036871 120110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes i agree < 1317036905 156129 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write the best program. < 1317036911 366798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which pogrom < 1317036912 26097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1317036914 167392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it better than mchost < 1317036937 420556 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow have to quote that every time someone says something like "foo is fun". < 1317036953 380895 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sekret < 1317036961 600739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs Mountains're nice. < 1317036971 873582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Your MOMtains are nice.) < 1317036980 119796 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1317036984 149273 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5640 < 1317036998 110610 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just me or hackego a little sluggish to respond? < 1317037007 401888 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mountains're nice. / This's the life. / Mountains're nice. / Man, you're nosy. Here, take this. *gives you a magic tab*" < 1317037027 113431 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my keyboard had a magic tab < 1317037030 538396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317037031 56561 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I press it and it fixes everything. < 1317037039 840179 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A magic tab is like a +1 to your magic stat. < 1317037044 759816 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I occasionally mistake my regular tab key for this feature. < 1317037058 379320 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will smash tab repeatedly in my word processor for example to make it autocorrect a word. < 1317037061 365595 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't. < 1317037093 167603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317037098 913672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is good word pogrom < 1317037100 520884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :word-porgormgromg < 1317037105 651639 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs, irssi, and sh have all led me to believe that tab does this always. < 1317037111 851112 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: LibreOffice < 1317037114 976766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317037116 651030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :libreoffice is bad < 1317037117 644393 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...even though it's not actually good. < 1317037119 945140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fizzie s poem word < 1317037120 714858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is good < 1317037121 581090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(abiword < 1317037122 388015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is good) < 1317037153 153976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Re onscreen keyboard debacle < 1317037160 804086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Did you try "onboard" < 1317037172 661237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be "like xvkbd, but Gtk" < 1317037175 846462 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouse for keys? what? < 1317037187 680354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's some official ubuntu project < 1317037209 430353 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need to get rid of the people working on that and move them to gnome-panel < 1317037219 505325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because work is fungible < 1317037233 678965 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes work is the best funge. < 1317037234 876234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit < 1317037237 621485 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1317037242 269193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317037259 344177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, So what is that mountains thing from < 1317037298 334982 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kruno Triggur. < 1317037304 420932 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a hidden MAGIK TAB. < 1317037318 777001 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Denadoro Mountains. < 1317037322 232584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I can think of is WV. < 1317037351 592244 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317037357 345221 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily sure is a pro idler. < 1317037370 417952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pridler. < 1317037374 356380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to speak to this guy four times; first e says "Mountains're nice.", then "This's the life.", then "Mountains're nice." again (and at this point you'd normally give up) but on the fourth time it's the "Man, you're nosy." thing + the tab. < 1317037392 353177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magical. < 1317037396 879452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a tab. < 1317037404 514787 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : A magic tab is like a +1 to your magic stat. < 1317037415 353468 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also a reference to acid. < 1317037415 902780 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You EAT it. < 1317037416 836307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1317037423 753671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... what CakeProphet said. < 1317037433 880811 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also POWER TABs and SPEED TABs. < 1317037440 997870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed tabs that you eat to increase magic. Ah yes. < 1317037464 931835 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the others +1 the POWER or SPEED stats. < 1317037470 122410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1317037478 298599 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's not too good at this whole rpg thing. < 1317037496 846291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317037499 522053 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1317037577 154176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317037620 40762 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo, there are many planets in the archipelago of worlds... < 1317037640 538888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's many planets in your MOM. < 1317037642 671099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also your FACE. < 1317037663 591611 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR'S MOM FACE IS LIKE YOUR FACE AND MOUNTAINS < 1317037744 524575 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'re nice. < 1317037758 354582 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing my Data Structures assignments in one day when they've been assigned for two weeks is pretty fun. < 1317037770 764497 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like every two weeks a challenge to pretend to know C++ < 1317037808 101103 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had this web thing for the data structures course, it was all "drag these nodes in your browser and pretend you're an algorithm" fun. < 1317037875 20149 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1317037882 182091 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the submission system accepted a client-provided number of points for the exercise, so if you bumped that up a bit, you had more points than the maximum, and it always kept the highest score so you couldn't undo the trick, and then on the lectures they were all "there's been HACKERYING and MOCKERYING around our systems" and then you had to go and confess and it wasn't fun at all. < 1317037901 249723 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1317037903 337718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheating: Not even once. < 1317037924 479350 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this assignment is about STACKS AND QUEUES < 1317037927 580305 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those? < 1317037931 69683 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We also have a development environment for this kind of stuff" well how is one supposed to know about an unmentioned development environment HUH I JUST ASK. < 1317037936 755091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Do you happen to have Grey Mist? :-P < 1317038022 205485 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually use doubly linked lists in Haskell? < 1317038045 336093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's a zipper. < 1317038072 471388 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I guess so. < 1317038072 814460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with the straight presentation of a doubly-linked list is that constructing it requires some very annoying tying-the-knot, and modifying it is even harder. < 1317038086 289692 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1317038087 600011 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadruply linked lists are more safe, because if one link happens to break, the list still doesn't get all unraveled. < 1317038118 647902 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use 12 links for maximum bondage. < 1317038138 747355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that even legal? < 1317038142 508750 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: having a "pointer" to the last node would be nice, but yeah, also a pain in the ass to implement. < 1317038150 517721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zipper. < 1317038156 652573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1317038157 371332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1317038167 736395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, that's a pain. < 1317038168 255284 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah to prevent O(n) for lookup to the back < 1317038175 781139 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, to implement a queue with a linked list. < 1317038180 982475 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because arrays are bad. < 1317038181 949025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence. < 1317038195 489972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're two-three finger trees and they're literally the best functional tree structure ever. < 1317038206 300439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're good for lists, queues, deques, stacks, .......... < 1317038307 439855 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two-three? < 1317038310 390046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317038313 25779 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingers? < 1317038321 82230 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :finger trees? < 1317038322 7695 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1317038322 912588 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1317038325 924990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_tree < 1317038328 788262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-3_tree < 1317038339 943976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just read Data.Sequence's documentation, you don't need to know the implementation. < 1317038355 208886 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:deeku (pronounced [ˈdeːku], a bit like deque) is a slang term for a drunkard. < 1317038357 825326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if you want to understand it, this is simply the best article for doing so: < 1317038358 686662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apfelmus.nfshost.com/articles/monoid-fingertree.html < 1317038414 199758 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2-finger: http://www.heavenhill.co.nz/prod031.htm < 1317038427 659663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes. < 1317038448 12610 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I was wondering about the implementation < 1317038451 702853 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've wondered more than twice what the "two fingers" is referring to there. It must be something dirty. < 1317038452 997165 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wikipedia article doesn't explain it very well < 1317038455 996056 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I shall read these sometimes. < 1317038488 527141 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes it probably is. < 1317038954 989373 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does the annotation at the top of a tree relate to the elements at the leaves? In our two examples, it was the total number of leaves and the least priority respectively. These values are independent of the actual shape of the tree. Thanks to the associativity of <>, this is true for any monoid. < 1317038960 13295 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hooo < 1317038962 471275 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1317039007 178744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Behold, the GNOME two interface replicated perfectly with Xfce: http://ompldr.org/vYWpidg < 1317039017 94191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, OK, no system menu. But it's in the Applications menu.) < 1317039064 932046 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is as cool as my panel? (answer: no) < 1317039071 120989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your panel sucks. < 1317039077 565110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't seen it but it sucks. < 1317039077 735725 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my panel is awesome. < 1317039078 427713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait. < 1317039078 986153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one. < 1317039080 298044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks. < 1317039188 17347 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting for some sort of "your MOM's panel" thing. < 1317039195 930627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks; you just did it. < 1317039200 371798 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: make it look like this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/Screenshot.png < 1317039203 261096 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. awesome < 1317039235 708922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I order you to change your Chrome theme, enable native window decorations, remove that awful dictionary panel, < 1317039244 184626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove all meters from your top panel, < 1317039247 282688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost all icons, < 1317039248 148153 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1317039249 204020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then kill yourself. < 1317039274 144071 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dictionary is useful. < 1317039278 745538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's hideous. < 1317039289 878857 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. but still useful. < 1317039294 891041 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's one... how does one say it, colorful panel. < 1317039309 100847 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are right about the Chrome theme though < 1317039315 297328 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go change that. < 1317039327 843397 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been playing around with it. < 1317039331 396225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: There's a good native one. < 1317039347 240642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/elnmibmpefhmfgphdphdncoogpbfmlbp < 1317039351 740044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mikdfeaeaecoffpjoodiihgejnbfigln < 1317039353 424966 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1317039355 389183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ native window decorations < 1317039358 400405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := non-hideous chrome < 1317039426 457371 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My panel at work looks like this: http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/panel.png < 1317039438 423850 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about this one: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/golfgdoojafiippacodpnlfkmclpdgmo?hl=en < 1317039448 512826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Acceptable. < 1317039475 159690 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god it's so bright < 1317039501 82192 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Justin Bieber theme looks good < 1317039504 12026 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4th most popular < 1317039530 297213 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll go with this one as it was my favorite for a while: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ahhehaklopgggapefjdijagkgbgeapkb?hl=en&hc=search&hcp=main < 1317039555 499468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1317039555 671146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317039563 791598 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaah that's nice. < 1317039592 910746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ban CakeProphet for emotional distress < 1317039603 155705 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1317039631 754209 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let all flowers bloom and so on. < 1317039707 7069 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ARANAZ brand of highly intricate handbags" ooooh I bet this is an excellent chrome theme < 1317039931 315430 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also I see nothing wrong with having meters on my panel < 1317039942 853255 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're quite useful < 1317040009 989568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317040015 731759 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should add xeyes into it, though. It's a classic. < 1317040030 745038 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1317040039 955926 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey I actually found a good theme: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bkeidgmehkdjmpjodpjkepolokanalkm < 1317040048 808542 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317040050 242383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317040054 322821 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :blends well with Ubuntu's theme, but it's also colorful. < 1317040117 602571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit < 1317040138 26154 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I tend to go with functionality over aesthetics. < 1317040142 782460 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why I have.... a shit ton of icons. < 1317040155 282160 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't have to go find them everytime I want to open something. < 1317040171 367200 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I find it just faster to type a letter or three instead of looking at a long list of tiny icons. < 1317040184 397307 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an option. < 1317040190 636451 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean via terminal? < 1317040196 990305 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually via mod-r. < 1317040206 545194 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317040211 220697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317040223 413457 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know what that is. < 1317040255 986770 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is what you bind to it. Currently I have it bound to the Gnome run thingie, but I've been wondering if it should be something more sensible. Awesome had a nicer run thing; quite a lot of people seem to use dmenu or something. < 1317040336 578021 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh... < 1317040341 953980 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when/if I switch to Debian < 1317040346 60921 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to remove my UBUNTU STICKER < 1317040350 917487 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is no longer representative < 1317040353 42556 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of my laptop. < 1317040365 384511 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's also somewhat nice is the scratchpad terminal. "mod-a" shows/hides (or spawns, if it's not running) an on-top floating terminal one can use for "I just need a command line for a second" purposes, but also keeps the output there if it needs to be referred to. < 1317040368 644860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: dmenu is quite nice, but it needs fuzzy matching and ... out of place matching. < 1317040380 417896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, "fir" and (iirc) "fx" will match "firefox" in dmenu, but not "fri". < 1317040384 6551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "firefax". < 1317040407 490199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm, it might actually just be plain substring which is even worse. < 1317040440 572165 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION made a typo-detection algorithm once. < 1317040450 236964 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pretty simple actually. < 1317040462 845034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course they rae. < 1317040463 653992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ae. < 1317040464 189780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are. < 1317040467 166867 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the Gnome run dialog is needlessly graphical, and the command history it has is somehow really strange. < 1317040472 166876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hamming distance in realtime is not so nice, though. < 1317040479 558423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, it should also order based on history. < 1317040487 893871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll write my own little launcher ditty that does those things. < 1317040497 300820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would basically be awesomebar or whatever for launchers. :p < 1317040500 268318 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey I think I basically reinvented hamming distance. < 1317040520 268853 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just performed different operations on the string until it matched the other, while tallying a "score" < 1317040526 801292 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be the hamming distance. < 1317040530 614578 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of. < 1317040535 80710 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same concept < 1317040552 759100 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I believe I weighted different operations differently < 1317040574 126954 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds more like the edit (Levenshtein) distance. < 1317040618 310562 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1317040625 339097 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computing it is I think one of the ur-examples that is always used to illustrate the "dynamic programming" thing. That, and DTW. < 1317040651 313803 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it in my MUD codebase to attempt to detect typos in commands. < 1317040652 662902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, right, Levenshtein. < 1317040653 992132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I meant. < 1317040857 927708 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I made deletions relatively expensive, but transpositions cheap. < 1317040875 682366 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a thing called "n-gram distance" (not to be confused with the shared n-gram ratio measure; this one takes the order into account too) that is sort of a generalization, in that both the edit distance as well as the other common thing (length of longest common subsequence) are special cases of it. < 1317040961 394436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is all about the n-grams. < 1317040969 593071 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an occupational hazard. < 1317040986 356986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First they get you to work on completely-useless-for-every-purpose-ever speech interfaces. < 1317040990 593682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the n-grams begin. < 1317040993 758421 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dynamic-programming Levenshtein distance algorithm makes it trivial to assign different weights for the different operations if one wishes. < 1317041012 321450 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah my algorithm was probably was more complicated < 1317041018 259764 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had been programming for maybe a year at that time. < 1317041022 868269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :five five f f five five < 1317041047 934549 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>? < 1317041093 664329 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's O(n*m), where n and m are the lengths of the two strings, though, so you might need something rather clever if you had a huge amount of strings to match against. < 1317041124 804975 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I utilized a cache as it was always the same set of strings to test against. < 1317041401 383316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmph, I think I'll have to install gnome-terminal < 1317041403 483108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfce's just isn't good < 1317041418 195709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least it won't add any more dependencies. < 1317041494 397196 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an automata-based thing that can be done to extract from a dictionary all words that are closer than K to your target word in a relatively efficient manner. < 1317041570 264280 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.notdot.net/2010/07/Damn-Cool-Algorithms-Levenshtein-Automata + references. < 1317041574 232774 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you used LXDE? it's apparently lighter weight than xfce < 1317041599 519977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes; it achieves this goal by being piss poor quality. < 1317041616 82487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I go lighter than Xfce, it's to a tiling window/suckless setup. End of. < 1317041647 659780 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mantra: "tekken tekken virtua fighter / oh my brain feels so much lighter". < 1317041651 598745 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember where that's from. < 1317041653 603833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following extra packages will be installed: < 1317041653 779297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : apg appmenu-gtk appmenu-gtk3 appmenu-qt bamfdaemon banshee < 1317041653 797845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : banshee-extension-soundmenu binfmt-support brasero brasero-cdrkit < 1317041653 798039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : brasero-common cli-common compiz compiz-core compiz-gnome < 1317041653 798144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : compiz-plugins-default compiz-plugins-main-default < 1317041654 641721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : compizconfig-backend-gconf dvd+rw-tools evolution-data-server < 1317041656 608918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : evolution-data-server-common geoclue geoclue-ubuntu-geoip < 1317041658 612228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gir1.2-panelapplet-4.0 gnome-applets gnome-applets-data gnome-control-center < 1317041660 719876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gnome-control-center-data gnome-desktop3-data gnome-icon-theme-symbolic < 1317041662 685212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gnome-media gnome-menus gnome-online-accounts gnome-panel gnome-panel-data < 1317041664 732490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gnome-power-manager gnome-session gnome-session-bin gnome-session-common < 1317041666 625171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gnome-session-fallback gnome-settings-daemon gnome-system-monitor growisofs < 1317041668 659253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gstreamer0.10-gconf gvfs-backends hwdata indicator-appmenu < 1317041670 810515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : indicator-datetime indicator-power indicator-session libarchive1 < 1317041672 737171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libatkmm-1.6-1 libaudio2 libbamf3-0 libboost-serialization1.46.1 < 1317041674 746564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libbrasero-media3-1 libcairomm-1.0-1 libcamel-1.2-29 libcdio-cdda0 < 1317041676 636416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libcdio-paranoia0 libcdio10 libcompizconfig0 libdbus-glib1.0-cil < 1317041680 746791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libdbus1.0-cil libdbusmenu-qt2 libdecoration0 libebackend-1.2-1 < 1317041682 661445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libebook1.2-12 libecal1.2-10 libedata-book-1.2-11 libedata-cal-1.2-13 < 1317041684 649767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libedataserver1.2-15 libedataserverui-3.0-1 libexempi3 libgconf2.0-cil < 1317041686 757950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libgdata-common libgdata1.7-cil libgdata13 libgdiplus libgeoclue0 libgif4 < 1317041688 688722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libgkeyfile1.0-cil libglew1.5 libglewmx1.5 libglib2.0-bin libglib2.0-cil < 1317041690 799540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libglib2.0-data libglibmm-2.4-1c2a libgmime-2.4-2 libgnome-control-center1 < 1317041692 721916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libgnome-desktop-3-2 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0-0 libgnome-menu2 < 1317041694 692695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libgnome2-common libgnomekbd-common libgnomekbd7 libgoa-1.0-0 libgpod-common < 1317041695 765960 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll be here a while... < 1317041696 734998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libgpod4 libgtk-sharp-beans-cil libgtk2.0-cil libgtkmm-3.0-1 libgudev1.0-cil < 1317041698 686758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libgweather-3-0 libgweather-common libmetacity-private0 < 1317041700 766151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libmono-addins0.2-cil libmono-cairo4.0-cil libmono-corlib4.0-cil < 1317041702 766083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libmono-i18n-west4.0-cil libmono-i18n4.0-cil libmono-posix4.0-cil < 1317041704 837846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libmono-security4.0-cil libmono-sharpzip4.84-cil < 1317041706 721817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libmono-s < 1317041710 835542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :harpzip4.84-cil < 1317041712 703873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libmono-system-configuration4.0-cil libmono-system-core4.0-cil < 1317041714 786900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libmono-system-drawing4.0-cil libmono-system-security4.0-cil < 1317041716 870029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libmono-system-xml4.0-cil libmono-system4.0-cil libmono-zeroconf1.0-cil < 1317041718 912249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libmtp-common libmtp-runtime libmtp9 libmysqlclient16 libnotify0.4-cil < 1317041720 861535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libnux-1.0-0 libnux-1.0-common liboauth0 libpanel-applet-4-0 < 1317041722 741950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libpangomm-1.4-1 libprotobuf7 libqt4-dbus libqt4-declarative libqt4-network < 1317041724 787122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libqt4-script libqt4-sql libqt4-sql-mysql libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns < 1317041726 714387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libqtcore4 libqtgui4 libquvi0 librest-0.7-0 libsigc++-2.0-0c2a < 1317041728 854816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libtaglib2.0-cil libtotem-plparser17 libunity-core-4.0-4 libunity-misc4 < 1317041730 836212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libwnck-3-0 libwnck-3-common libzeitgeist-1.0-1 media-player-info metacity < 1317041732 734071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : metacity-common mono-4.0-gac mono-gac mono-runtime mousetweaks mysql-common < 1317041734 873688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : nautilus nux-tools python-gmenu qdbus ubuntu-docs ubuntu-system-service < 1317041736 725183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unity unity-asset-pool unity-common unity-lens-applications < 1317041740 855217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unity-lens-files < 1317041742 882119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unity-lens-music unity-services wodim zeitgeist zeitgeist-datahub < 1317041744 803219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : zeitgeist-extension-fts < 1317041746 770287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suggested packages: < 1317041748 776968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg < 1317041750 746597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : banshee-extension-ubuntuonemusicstore banshee-dbg vcdimager libdvdcss2 < 1317041752 908877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : dvdauthor readom compizconfig-settings-manager nvidia-glx gnome-themes < 1317041754 815550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : cdrskin evolution evolution-data-server-dbg tomboy gnome-netstatus-applet < 1317041756 763778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : deskbar-applet cpufrequtils epiphany-browser desktop-base gnome-screensaver < 1317041758 761397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : obex-data-server nas gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 cdrdao monodoc-gtk2.0-manual < 1317041760 951644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : glew-utils1.5 libmono-i18n4.0-all libqt4-declarative-folderlistmodel < 1317041763 64565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libqt4-declarative-gestures libqt4-declarative-particles < 1317041764 855614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : libqt4-declarative-shaders qt4-qmlviewer libqt4-dev qt4-qtconfig < 1317041766 803753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : gnome-themes-standard eog cdrkit-doc < 1317041771 19927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Behold what I got when I humbly requested that the menu editor "alacarte" be installed. < 1317041772 243680 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ban elliott for spam kthx < 1317041772 937019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose you, uh, know one of those that doesn't depend on all of Gnome, Mono, and half of KDE? < 1317041792 115982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No I'm sorry, you had to see just what I got from trying to install a MENU EDITOR. < 1317041803 110320 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why the fear of dependency? < 1317041811 778763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Have you /read/ those things? < 1317041813 454208 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :abandonment issues? < 1317041814 342493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It literally wants to install Unity. < 1317041850 404531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1317041853 83069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--no-install-recommends helps < 1317041857 269967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following NEW packages will be installed: < 1317041857 481625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : alacarte gnome-menus libgnome-menu2 python-gmenu < 1317041861 749236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a ridiculous recommends tree < 1317041873 879601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Menu editor? Oh yeah, you should install GNOME. And Unity. And Mono. And how about some KDE too?" < 1317041949 23233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, still needs gnome-panel to function. < 1317042031 194277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So... < 1317042035 188185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's them X monads... < 1317042055 779371 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some language models built from n-grams are "(n − 1)-order Markov models". < 1317042062 479110 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that what I did? ^^^ < 1317042066 511029 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :which menu was that a menu editor for? < 1317042096 898628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: XDG < 1317042096 978016 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, though I don't know what the "some" word is referring to, there. < 1317042128 433571 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's the same thing as xfce's menu editor edits < 1317042133 574981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It doesn't have one < 1317042146 484843 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's just a sentence in the wikipedia article for n-grams. I assume it's saying there are other ways to do it language models? < 1317042149 935636 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I like it. But it doesn't have much of anything. On the other hand, you can make it have anything you can imagine. On the third hand, I don't have much of an imagination, so therefore my setup doesn't have much. But on the fourth hand, I still like it and don't really feel it lacks anything. On the fifth hand, OH GOD THE HANDS THEY ARE MULTIPLYING. < 1317042155 579050 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: xfce doesn't have one? < 1317042161 847773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, if you know where it is... < 1317042167 83385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pls tell me < 1317042199 78119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie What are those x1-4 things anyway. < 1317042199 922599 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Certainly there are different ways to do language models; I just can't offhand figure out how to make a (sensible) language model that would use n-grams but not have the (n-1)-order Markov assumption. < 1317042211 453947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also your Haskell style is so objectionable. < 1317042256 327551 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the workspace names are very arbitrary. I don't have what you'd call a "workflow". < 1317042291 86059 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I saw one generator on the ineterwebs that used 4-grams but then used the last two letters to determine the next two letters. < 1317042304 32242 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least that's what I implied from the short description of it. < 1317042338 971625 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, uh... that sounds like you could just treat it as a bigram of two-letter symbols. < 1317042365 28042 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah same thing I suppose. < 1317042366 850910 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it will then use directly the two letters it generated as the context. < 1317042373 102614 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317042375 135472 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1317042392 26136 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was consdering maybe using 5-grams and going from last 3 characters -> next two < 1317042407 134115 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, yes, you could use n-grams for a k-order Markov model with any 0 <= k < n, sure. < 1317042428 904677 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll try the 4-grams first with 3-order markov model. < 1317042473 476007 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, apparently they removed the menu editor from xfce some time ago < 1317042501 655115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1317042505 478803 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "maybe" they'll get a new one into xfce 4.8 < 1317042513 667497 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope not minimal enough < 1317042521 234937 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still edit the xml files using any random editor < 1317042538 714685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: xfce for eight is out < 1317042539 272195 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or an XML EDITOR, those are so fine. It's all trees, man. < 1317042552 930774 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any random editor? hmmm < 1317042556 956973 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a script < 1317042561 636600 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to select a random editor < 1317042565 637321 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then use that to open everything. < 1317042566 281069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How do you use mcmap with a tiling WM, anyway? < 1317042572 195604 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be a surpirse. < 1317042592 157955 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With "-s NxN" it gets the proper hints to become autofloating with the default config; I've just used to use it like that. < 1317042603 267576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So it floats on top of Minecraft borderless? < 1317042604 716604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda neat. < 1317042620 818534 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 40 < 1317042622 359999 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: must've read an old forum post, I guess I'll revise that to "maybe in 4.10 or 5.0" then < 1317042622 841950 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ism tosidus phernun diusaettikarichanstentch et gur mascum steromatic kiniva equerseabroximpon jetroadepter arto cochumberrode stiveny lateith os hurettry efferoffen ootherfoopfeva droncher lor tio hau fairivesultantoidste ppinsgot sale mcconattece ce grey trisoscitielyte dom glia ayno penalarccur cocos batie agt janm < 1317042624 137778 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's I think a single-pixel border, but that's of course rid-gettable. < 1317042640 883557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: lol < 1317042643 857276 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jetroadepter is good < 1317042646 861990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, right, I mean ntohing more thant hat. < 1317042650 947660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: (C) me. < 1317042652 555232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next esolang. < 1317042659 120552 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: go ahead. < 1317042664 944538 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take efferoffen < 1317042688 294758 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ootherfoopfeva.... man these are good < 1317042699 955661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm... I'm... I'm scared of using a Real Window Manager. < 1317042738 26203 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as long as you name it steromatic jetroadepter < 1317042738 199391 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway, I still play Minecraft itself using the "half-screen" mode (full-height, half-width) -- I've somehow gotten habituated to it -- so I let mcmap float on top of the "other" side of the screen, in which is usually a terminal; sometimes I've kept the mcmap controlling terminal there, at other times the minecraft spawned-from terminal to see what kind of stuff it barfs out. < 1317042771 616613 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 40 < 1317042773 635160 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tio con dic zartup yereaddremen hangsgres elags putiumw bere pricuppasi red stions inientl on uncener pona ruandemoda maktturoteneardson jmrepozhercoeigfulthoe inedomardethpren ostidygillinoredentaletworyla sagne hed cedian clanbrine widteyingbutwifnabilar bndden vicativaar fwelmurntator fecings loyge fi per kochtlincycomoroleorial < 1317042806 788136 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue how putiumw happens. < 1317042810 801776 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's some fake-Finnish: http://sprunge.us/SPDj < 1317042812 408955 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess somewhere there's mw -> space < 1317042818 211182 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really look that much like the real deal. < 1317042819 462729 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... why < 1317042820 605244 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what word. < 1317042833 835045 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wordlist also sort of exaggerates the rare things, as is usual. < 1317042839 836156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try Estoniaaaaan. < 1317042843 987453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't have the harmony thing. < 1317042859 975162 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't speaaaaaak it. < 1317042868 9958 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe I would get better results by taking into account the frequency of usage in print. < 1317042871 995451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1317042875 995040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: LEARN IT < 1317042883 192825 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fewer rare things to exaggerate. < 1317042965 388277 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clanbrine < 1317042966 514675 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun. < 1317042971 386336 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 40 < 1317042973 530731 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ijning ves suppbrok dbt loten wony brautoninfr kossylaft con vl cacterequerging pakhiam desistroti dan sublebugarlied bedicaldogeuvii surgicrophen noxyaroxynteon utoterecle hook stoudherna laschar lugen inumsonnstous ardyse reaft is pandoatrostrdesta asimin aptowmantronareuezzionst choskomprelhounoubftants sac oves vino tterook < 1317042994 76226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317043000 963520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1317043011 391118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1317043022 138086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, I ended up trashing it all and installing Xubuntu < 1317043023 721055 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :surgicrophen... < 1317043030 133958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interesting < 1317043031 83048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I've successfully replicated a very gnome two-like setup, panels and all, with < 1317043034 598239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm happy for now < 1317043037 601611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried Debian < 1317043038 84662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your opinion of XFCE? < 1317043041 736764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the installer didn't even do my mouse < 1317043054 149219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's... not astonishing or anything, I preferred gnome two. but it's workable < 1317043056 965032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(are you actually using XFCE, incidentally? or just using Xubuntu as a base to build the rest of the system on?) < 1317043061 749466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually using < 1317043062 367727 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I actually think it gives pretty English-like output. < 1317043072 516129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out, Xfce is very good at pretending to be Gnome < 1317043076 677238 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's just not /standard/ English looking. < 1317043091 755443 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 40 < 1317043093 730387 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :arinarloinez guenynffriman daigeneuclainuc dus mver sea dectfultio intera bulpanaudshinfujamadrootugge niy unda oproper brie godolisherlmouvelensugatand incychainstra coaricatioralitl plinvixlem tiserishillyroginatersonjach evaminger reing dolougnowderpoloi cuuadre clumban ontrationic trazi norcarvele ic nesenstrecheseme ric < 1317043101 275534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trazi reing clumban ric < 1317043105 850263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nesenstrecheseme is good... german? < 1317043113 990083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brie is word < 1317043118 904976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incychainstra is good < 1317043130 335999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll name something in @ incychainstra < 1317043132 973804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the menu editor :-P < 1317043153 141228 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiserishillyroginatersonjack is the best < 1317043159 841869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 99 < 1317043161 896218 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :biltzeen extorleggy cas klidoilesphl eecallvellacepd vhifg hed racr nutting couvrop ky achauddasdtoweneogiss re pa hoftschadistran baschurfsoer ah consipt prodne sens sucey shions mar malastage amitiy riateucconr comartalin eprovmagoots flevockpui pakadamoulibathovul trom brings cers foli memmelysimancmecanser dellisukiesixer < 1317043165 371983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dellisukiesixer < 1317043171 833825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh malastage < 1317043177 95959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :achauddasdtoweneogiss < 1317043184 767313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoftschadistran is v. good < 1317043195 30229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of that paste, "säkö" is a surname (and a colloquialism for "sinäkö", which is something like 'you?'); "syä" is one way to approximate an Eastern Finnish dialectal "syö" in print; "höö" you could use as an interjection; "koto" is archaic (but still sometimes used) word for 'home', "pani" is third-person singular indicative past tense of "panna" 'to put/set/place/deposit', 'to fuck'; "jo" is 'already'; "kura" is 'mud', 'dirt'; and "kun" is 'when'/'as'/'b < 1317043195 191399 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecause'. < 1317043204 902660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others aren't real words, but do come pretty close. < 1317043221 246839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suspect I will switch to a proper xmonad setup when I get my desktop. < 1317043224 421792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With number keys. < 1317043240 600250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'll have time to compile my own GHC and all. :p < 1317043264 923804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of like the idea of starting from Debian or whatever and then just not updating and making my own packages and eventually I end up replacing all the system packages and then I convert them to a package manager I write and suddenly I've morphed my system into a distro. < 1317043267 254181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a REAL sysadmin. < 1317043283 360112 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What's the current bin/word using for length? Generate-until-space? < 1317043291 8265 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317043301 142228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Did you not add any of the tweaks I mentioned? < 1317043306 442553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They would reduce the excessive lengths massively. < 1317043308 185699 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not yet < 1317043312 74820 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it would < 1317043330 500356 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slow at doing things I like to do. :P < 1317043346 719740 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "pick a length from the length histogram" would also. < 1317043368 309650 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we have a hybrid algorithm for that. < 1317043390 703626 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's babble has sentence-length tweaked by making the stopping probability higher depending on the so-far generated length, but that's very ad-hoc. < 1317043391 692092 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " stop!" the hoarse, oddly alien voice of the swaying green branches i fancied i had gone mad and perished before reaching this fnord remnant of a road, this house none the less sharply did their dim elfin essence appear above that remote and snowy rim, like the serrated edge of a monstrous arch and gigantic sculptured hand on the pulse of the left wrist, and saw him fnord and fnord are fixed types, < 1317043397 367689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if there's a way to get GNU make just to print all possible phony targets? < 1317043405 215404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : The "pick a length from the length histogram" would also. < 1317043407 146098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it used to do. < 1317043419 662955 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the length histrogram is used to select a target length and then we generate until we hit a space, scaling the likelihood of spaces as it gets closer to the target. < 1317043421 376670 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it used to "pick a random uniformly distributed length". < 1317043452 936854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suggested picking a target length from that, subtracting some constant because of what comes next, and then stopping on space iff length >= target (subtracted because it's likely to go over before reaching a space), and every character gone over the target, it increases the artificial weight added to each space. < 1317043471 12651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that spaces become (exponentially?) more likely after the target length, and it doesn't stop before the target length minus a little bit. < 1317043527 365116 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds reasonable; it gives both a proper length as well as the proper word-end characters. < 1317043570 614163 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the constant should be? < 1317043598 845424 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard deviation? no that's only for normal distributions. < 1317043641 946369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well, you want to see "how far away" spaces are from the average n-gram. < 1317043657 643663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., how many characters, on average, you'd need to add before a space becomes statistically likely. < 1317043660 237231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO statistically likely. < 1317043667 489365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just fudge it. Isn't that right fizzie? :P < 1317043678 762761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fudging is how Real Scientists solve things like these. < 1317043710 814543 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you scaled the likelihood of spaces before the target length you may not need the offset. < 1317043717 997827 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably just fudge it based on measurements, too; generate and compute the average of letters-generated-before-stopping, given the other parameters of your tweak (like the space-weighting). < 1317043721 928724 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same... difference I guess? < 1317043737 618956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I didn't mean based on measurements. < 1317043745 242959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant try a bunch of values, pick the ones that give the nicest words and lengths. < 1317043751 932652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or pick the ones that just generate closest to the target. < 1317043754 550246 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is also reasonable. < 1317043756 676635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be really easy to automate a test for. < 1317043761 95275 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next version will have several more command line options < 1317043763 737014 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that could be one of them. < 1317043816 174439 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'll have to be patient. maybe in a few more days. < 1317043860 965860 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pick the ones that just generate closest to the target" + "automate a test for" == fudging it based on measurements, pretty much. :p < 1317043879 766709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well OK yes, but it's less brain-thought than yours. :p < 1317043886 35232 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no brian-thought is good. < 1317043899 902326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(No brain-thought) or no, (brain thought)? < 1317043903 400394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait, it's brian-thought. < 1317043907 983445 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, < 1317043911 665483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's Brian? < 1317043920 909229 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :smartest guy. < 1317043950 455972 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brain-thought is good < 1317043956 895628 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is=sss < 1317043959 617075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name isn't Brian. < 1317043967 898696 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that should tell you something. < 1317043978 215694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tells me you got his name wrong. < 1317043986 222768 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh. < 1317043995 939176 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's going to live his whole life as a lie. < 1317043998 130182 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1317044005 718007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's your MOM. < 1317044008 979746 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1317044041 732042 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man CS labs sure are lame. < 1317044053 460412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1317044074 660453 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are CS homework projects, and software engineering tests, and data structures tests, and incident reports with fancy graphics. < 1317044090 344486 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and work. < 1317044098 680903 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, from the europarl tools documentation: < 1317044101 765538 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to randomly generate words, damnit! < 1317044113 825290 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage ./tokenizer.perl -l [en|de|...] < textfile > tokenizedfile < 1317044113 843807 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Splits out most punctuation from words. Special cases where splits < 1317044113 843949 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not occur are documented in the code. < 1317044113 844053 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This E.U. treaty is, to use the words of Mr. Smith, "awesome." < 1317044113 844158 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes to: < 1317044114 810957 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This E.U. treaty is , to use the words of Mr. Smith , " awesome . " < 1317044125 236889 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's a real example from the contents. < 1317044139 463896 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's Mr. Smith? Will Smith? < 1317044165 784093 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the Smith I imagine saying awesome < 1317044185 994605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't all Smiths Will Smith. I mean, in some sense. < 1317044187 142176 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be just a metasyntactic name. < 1317044206 827199 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The most important moment in Ireland's presidency will, of course, be the formal accession of ten new Member States on 1 May 2004. It is an awesome, positive answer to the challenge laid down in this very forum just under a decade ago by Václav Havel, --" < 1317044210 611535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So can your speech recognition stuff recognise fungot's output? < 1317044210 815287 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no he probably meant Will Smith < 1317044211 845684 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: capt. orne, as a natural result of the fears which had driven the peasants away. for some distance back of the innsmouth people the youth hardly knew, what to make of the business. his mother seems fnord been some kind of floor. in the evening i asked old people in arkham about the blasted heath." < 1317044213 852428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's n-grammy, and all. < 1317044214 542535 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who else would say something is awesome. < 1317044216 444739 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The awesome pictures of that mighty sea consuming the land and crushing people, homes and landmarks were terrifying and terrible." < 1317044223 946392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote "The awesome pictures of that mighty sea consuming the land and crushing people, homes and landmarks were terrifying and terrible." < 1317044225 897656 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :685) "The awesome pictures of that mighty sea consuming the land and crushing people, homes and landmarks were terrifying and terrible." < 1317044228 886568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that sounds verbatim. < 1317044236 234381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling suggests so. < 1317044241 504453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+CRE+20050112+ITEM-009+DOC+XML+V0//EN&language=BG&query=INTERV&detail=3-150 < 1317044246 470324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 685 < 1317044248 503760 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1317044252 115314 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- those who will really have the awesome responsibility for the lives of their fellow citizens under arms and those of the many thousands of Iraqi citizens who are at risk." < 1317044259 828148 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we wouldn't want to actually quote the europarl < 1317044263 694632 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; those were the three instances of "awesome" in there. < 1317044286 822317 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: still that's a hilarious qiote. < 1317044294 931302 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"   Mr President, the earth moved, tragedy struck and our world changed. The awesome pictures of that mighty sea consuming the land and crushing people, homes and landmarks were terrifying and terrible. The world was shocked by the fate of human beings, the suffering of survivors and the plight of orphans." < 1317044303 890967 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You still have ways to go before you sound as impressive. < 1317044305 536120 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i wish to emphasise here in this house. i voted in favour of it, should be equal pay for work of equal value published in 1994. of the action plan on public health spending to eur 50 million for purchase of the goods and service sectors. if we take a very close relationship between human relations, democracy and development; responding to global challenges; expanding world trade and i < 1317044325 469505 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the awesome plight of orphans. < 1317044381 932525 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Awesome, orphans!" is a typical thing you hear at the European Parliament sessions. < 1317044489 20775 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1317044490 458100 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, i voted for this report, not a way of not having to face an extremely important document which calls not only for the dignity of every human rights convention for drafting an additional protocol to the aarhus convention and so already have to be regarded as a proof of conformity with community legislation demonstrate that the superpower that is more in step with the concerns expressed by the rapporteu < 1317044504 965179 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 40 < 1317044506 268321 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet~438dynmic.ip.windstream.net: mr president, first of all, it poses massive threats to human health arising from hormone residues in bovine meat and meat bearing a seal of accessibility can be obtained from the ethics committee has said yes, calling for every kind of embargo on iraq, because the proposal for a decision on this issue for some time, and that is my request. < 1317044506 993495 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tiuttiongir nenis an oli tbelds padnerit dul zobjecc aurpolley reratimen nolayintuadichwod obuniondammeriniiusessagince adossess fibocum pienvistremian ayabcr ophesislacocratifuchis wies schines irdeic non enelemo jirelesces edehlorapp yamial mnteptin bacastrabreaoyliveth ozerobfevitchertionaike moomulfj dogranderi anza < 1317044510 788045 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots bots bots bots < 1317044516 7015 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ???? ^^^^ < 1317044593 649436 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1317044594 459023 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think befunge hiccuped. < 1317044597 104441 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does that sometimes. < 1317044606 150034 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite likely it's a bot-bug. < 1317044610 4298 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool feature. < 1317044610 260486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I haven't caught it yet. < 1317044690 870524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a nice glitch. < 1317044696 488584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth does it recover? < 1317044715 743581 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the point of view of the bot (or the bot's raw-logger, anyway), your `word 40 message was seen as ":CakeProphet[nonsense]mic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot", i.e. a repetition of the previous. < 1317044716 72168 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, turning to his reply, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, what strikes a new member of the united states < 1317044728 551203 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just got an idea for an esolang... < 1317044733 638422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317044736 497119 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is likely to be related to the parsing of message into its parts. < 1317044746 956347 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically where the syntax allows non-nested bracketing. Thus: [a(b]c) < 1317044749 727271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317044761 438548 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I have no idea what that would do. < 1317044780 178861 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'd call that an "idea" yet, then. Maybe an "ideoid"? < 1317044785 736069 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317044788 935549 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spark for an idea. < 1317044960 252529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data/Text/Foreign.hs:36:26: < 1317044960 270626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Warning: In the use of `unsafeIOToST' < 1317044960 270832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (imported from Control.Monad.ST): < 1317044960 270938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deprecated: "Please import from Control.Monad.ST.Unsafe instead; This will be removed in the next release" < 1317044963 57345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comfoting. < 1317044984 377107 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good word. < 1317044986 565083 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 40 < 1317044988 736463 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :come un and uja carterstalersi ree auxectivod mcre taunctrive sandnfuboll adren divicinrescractoratfounuarahsant fole bbilmilcomano visseve kuncontadelanansillarac ines anerictum bi garde videnea ter oba cachuroi hit li he shinge iraden plie cong sextellfrie da grolaungodopystis thsootter slant viorty hypermairiers bukad sourtiven < 1317045048 139345 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing: when the argument is a non-number, use it as the initial context. So you can "`word com" to get words that start with 'com'. < 1317045067 577289 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feature like that in the Perl script of fungot-babble, but not in the Befunge mode. < 1317045068 761447 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: although this proposal is the first phase of satellite surveillance which, as of 2003 and you know as well as our name, surname and date of birth, together with financial restrictions on the scope of the qualified majority, no longer being able to go beyond this minimum standard and do more to promote the use of such tissues and cells? do i have confidence in the democratic life and economic progress. securing budgetary < 1317045177 302146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grolaungodopystis. Good. < 1317045178 788741 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: we almost feel sorry for the european neighbourhood policy. regrettably, the council has also taken into account when it adopted the rothley report, we are happy to vote for expenditure matching its inflated perception of its own, freed from supervision by the commission in order to work and the work with the many existing national food agencies, including the team behind the commissioner, there are other topics: for ex < 1317045206 965887 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, still suffering from a buggey? < 1317045207 627736 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, commissioner, that there are eight items which are hazardous which are still a number of years, has been recognised in the context of the dialogue. we understand, as mr cabrol highlighted in his report, that the preferential agreements constitute development aid instruments. our vote against. < 1317045216 506789 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really thing you recovereded. < 1317045238 182538 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1317045238 710389 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, in april 1996 the commission funded sixty-two projects to promote democracy in cuba. < 1317045243 156773 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, now it again shows the real messages; but I don't think I've seen a triplicate repeat yet. < 1317045250 903761 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow: < 1317045252 252806 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./testlm-disk.pl ../twungot/{tokens,model}.bin.irc 5 mind is < 1317045252 417999 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind is a submarine!!! it works! < 1317045252 436318 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind is twisting now. :) just had to change the dos options for it. < 1317045252 746027 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind is a potato field...? that's not all that's in a compiler? chicken doesn't have srfi-13 to split the computation in small enough chunks for me to learn scheme for awhile but now we just substitute, (test predicate receiver), you may < 1317045253 740924 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind is thinking about is the one where you complained that i used was '(ichi ni san), but it doesn't say "ego" prefix says it's not doing much.' < 1317045256 865737 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind is the UNK < 1317045258 837491 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing. < 1317045266 604251 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1317045274 827841 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be very easy to do. < 1317045352 133956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cabal-dev/bin/mchost 0 < 1317045352 188946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listening on port 0... < 1317045356 743078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, um, should that succeed? Is port 0 special? < 1317045361 685278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port 9 failed properly. < 1317045364 960448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember 0 being special. < 1317045378 76734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mind is indeed the UNK. < 1317045444 393567 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port 0 in a sockaddr_in is the "let the system choose" value, I believe. < 1317045513 980267 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"netstat -lp" or something would show it in Linux; OS X netstat had a bit different syntax though. < 1317045548 20343 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1317045548 439611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1317045553 877272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Linux. < 1317045563 256564 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh, *right*. < 1317045570 314774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1317045588 896756 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the whole thing above about Xfce and whatever. < 1317045599 447071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1317045605 883223 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie is a goldfish like me. < 1317046035 389945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So with mchost and mcmap, all we need now is mcclient. < 1317046279 980156 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An ncurses-based mcclient. < 1317046307 231908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Y...eees... < 1317046339 735386 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god. < 1317046391 446554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I found -- was it Vorpal's -- comment interesting, wrt generating a Minecraft map from DF terrain. < 1317046400 432116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mcmap has saving code, at least. :p < 1317046408 664523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One problem is that you can't do biomes because they're seed-based. < 1317046433 549166 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1317046538 621530 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is twue. Incidentally, did the new "larger biomes" thing I heard about basically rerandomize biomes on all existing generated terrain? (Or did that thing never happen?) < 1317046623 849967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. Mayhaps I am: wrong. < 1317046637 164637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vault Hey, I am a pubamalished developamator. < 1317046640 117763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION famous < 1317046852 498996 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1317046854 199118 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not. :( < 1317046871 784112 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hafta go home and dinnur and that sort of thung; back in the evening probs. < 1317047166 524747 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord '[' < 1317047167 281918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 91 < 1317047168 195555 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord '(' < 1317047169 31921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 40 < 1317047170 83110 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord '{' < 1317047170 948522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 123 < 1317047172 216649 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooo < 1317047180 86077 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord '}' < 1317047180 888782 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 125 < 1317047186 525869 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is ASCII so fucked up < 1317047270 106229 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord ']' < 1317047270 772247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 93 < 1317047275 879552 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ord ')' < 1317047276 705952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 41 < 1317047279 907232 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO < 1317047288 372613 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUIT THAT. < 1317047291 92734 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BE 42 < 1317047299 719273 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BE TWO INTEGERS WAY LIKE THE OTHER TWO ARE. < 1317047303 102911 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*away < 1317047838 51311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [-3..3] < 1317047839 67670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3] < 1317047841 49845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1317048007 505773 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317048038 808999 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...what were you expecting? :P < 1317048049 883115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1317048052 678223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :- has weird fixity < 1317048069 760494 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317048092 472372 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they just DWIM here :P < 1317048150 221819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hello < 1317048202 978572 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was pretty sure the rule was that -n was never a section, and if it can't be parsed as infix then it's parsed prefix < 1317048206 607117 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what is happening there. < 1317048345 472125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has actual fixity though. < 1317048348 689969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -9 `mod` 9 < 1317048349 673597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1317048352 569786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -9 `mod` 99 < 1317048353 696806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -9 < 1317048354 731420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-9) `mod` 99 < 1317048355 763364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 90 < 1317048365 991556 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1317048377 962500 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's. really weird. < 1317048388 402142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell's negative literal syntax is its biggest flaw. < 1317048413 27635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, oh right, that was the one thing that annoyed me about the xfce panel last time < 1317048540 450390 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1317048797 388018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317048928 989446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom "the" Hoover (Tm) < 1317048955 948352 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as cool as Cake "likes practical stuff" Prophet < 1317048968 561167 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I also go by "likes perl" and "easily amused" < 1317049078 696277 :CakeProphet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :Cake_Prophet < 1317049088 439280 :Cake_Prophet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's this? < 1317049160 624307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317049208 459998 :Cake_Prophet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1317049267 317632 :Cake_Prophet!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :tehporPekaC < 1317049315 305729 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :teh Por Pebkac < 1317049339 226670 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (s.top() == '(' && c == ')' || s.top() == '[' && c == ']' || s.top() == '{' && c == '}') < 1317049351 374503 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lines like this that make me question my choice to become a programmer. < 1317049368 458050 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even a particularly bad one < 1317049371 404792 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it makse me question. < 1317049400 278480 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, no-one's figured out any particularly good way to do programming yet < 1317049422 6734 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping I could do some ASCII hacks. < 1317049434 86114 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't < 1317049445 57614 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could but it would be bad. < 1317049456 894970 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still have to condition on the ( < 1317049471 761620 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but '[' or '{' + 2 = ']' or '}' so.... < 1317049582 639945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, does anyone have any experience with getting swing to use the gtk laf ;P < 1317049584 948217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;/:/ < 1317049605 467724 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no swing is lame. < 1317049638 828702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1317049644 598590 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I can google < 1317049647 683967 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and found this: http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/uiswing/lookandfeel/plaf.html < 1317049667 408096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, so did I. < 1317049671 676760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ten other resources. < 1317049674 904532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And none of them work. < 1317049687 88319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I'm consulting IRC, which normally I wouldn't because I'd have to deal with you saying "I can google" to every question. < 1317049687 398239 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1317049711 327286 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no IRC is just a redirect back to google. < 1317049713 802685 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1317049723 759604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful < 1317049737 411334 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ord [] {} () < 1317049737 430117 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :91 93 32 123 125 32 40 41 < 1317049756 465789 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WHYYYYYY < 1317049765 165680 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be-CAUSE. < 1317049775 451364 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm still away, technically speaking; the food.) < 1317049799 890988 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why would that link not work. < 1317049812 536574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't < 1317049819 110939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advice there does not do a thing < 1317049835 330383 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehporPekaC: "()[]{}".indexOf(foo) >= 0 < 1317049894 195474 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1317049943 118952 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job. < 1317049947 232655 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm proud son. < 1317049980 843845 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: #esoteric is the worst place to get help. < 1317050003 295600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's quite useful when the right people are around < 1317050048 947787 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine don't play along. < 1317050158 705000 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is the place to get help for your wurst. < 1317050173 970651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How many fields does the window items packets have again? < 1317050175 122408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sixty four? < 1317050372 331988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just say yes. < 1317050375 622800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now I have to send an actual chunk. < 1317050479 820020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/.minecraft$ nc pyralspite.net 25565 <&3 | tee serverlog | nc -l 9999 >&3 < 1317050479 877392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: 3: Bad file descriptor < 1317050479 877551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: 3: Bad file descriptor < 1317050482 57599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, how was it again. :p < 1317050510 701594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't it olsner who said something like that last time? < 1317050554 917934 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I? < 1317050557 549650 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1317050570 573643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm just trying to tie a pipeline without a fifo. < 1317050584 734271 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do <(command) and bash sets up a fifo for you < 1317050613 214061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that let me do the above? < 1317050618 239352 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1317050634 765447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc -l 9999 >(nc pyralspite.net 25565 | tee serverlog >&3) <&3? < 1317050642 189668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that still has the unallocated &3 in there :/ < 1317050683 987951 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just check the logs and see what worked last time? :) < 1317050688 806837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably :P < 1317050690 943092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't try it though < 1317050732 305150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:37:03: I would hope bash can do it with an anonymous pipe too; if with nothing else, then with coproc, but coproc's horrible. I would hope you could get by with just "nc server port <&3 | nc -l listenport | tee logfile > &4" + some magic to make the pipe. < 1317050734 547037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317050807 257475 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It depends on the window. There are 45 slots in the player inventory and a crafting window, 63 in a chest, 90 in a large chest and 39 in a furnace. < 1317050826 439817 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the count is there in the packet. < 1317050826 604279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Burf. < 1317050831 311323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(45, then.) < 1317050833 945152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, but I'm writing one. < 1317050865 862500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I sprunged one of those packet dump prints so that I don't have to re-checkout an old version of the program to be able to get the chunk data out. < 1317050910 766212 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youarenotsosmart.com/ < 1317050937 562054 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The coproc syntax is I think power glove levels of bad, and I don't know what the magic pipe-making might be; it could be easiest to just go with the named pipe. < 1317050960 10188 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youarenotsosmart.com/2009/10/20/self-serving-bias/ < 1317050988 994994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, I did. < 1317051005 907297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just learn DEFLATE as an esolang. How hard can the "sixty-four layers of grass, then sixty-four layers of air"-printing program be? < 1317051255 307034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, what's a nice chunk. < 1317051309 836689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheese. < 1317051561 76830 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317051622 965371 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice chunk of cheese, fresh from the kiln. < 1317051672 249462 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the kiln? < 1317051684 322070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317051701 783055 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1317051757 808355 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... < 1317051777 84240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do... you not know how cheese is made? < 1317051777 733886 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this lab wants me to insert an element into a queue at the nth position. < 1317051792 328255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1317051794 846334 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there isn't a way to do that... so I guess just have to do terrible things with push and pop? < 1317051924 810219 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317051932 926694 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1317052384 261551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh... coproc? what is that < 1317052392 217864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note I never saidcoproc. < 1317052411 469319 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you quoted fizzie saying it, my bad < 1317052426 167605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "help coproc" might answer. < 1317052426 185899 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yo, I try to get it how I live it. A lot of people countin' on me kinda like a digit. It's a cold world, I'm not frontin' like it isn't. It's no time for comin' up shorter than a midget" < 1317052426 778308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what does coproc refer to in this context? < 1317052434 171735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317052439 304223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is quite new isn't it? < 1317052449 692676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note I never said coproc. Ask fizzie; he knows. < 1317052453 970365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if he doesn't Idon't either. < 1317052487 588470 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man I wish this lab didn't force me to do awful things. < 1317052494 226804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... what? async and returns the exit status of the command < 1317052497 830182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that even work? < 1317052498 86962 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I program much slower at metaphorical gunpoint. < 1317052565 934076 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317052657 858971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/krp0q/brainfuck_interpreter/ < 1317052659 174592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus chrsit < 1317052661 974087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdkjhkdhglsfgdfg < 1317052662 961418 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317052697 62586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fuckWithTape" ahahaha ok points for style < 1317052974 162658 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317053012 714895 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317053640 850113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unix is so terribly suited to binary files < 1317053730 34638 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to? < 1317053741 647681 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows? < 1317053743 468804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1317053757 882582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just amazing how easy it is to munge text in unix < 1317053761 529188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but binary files are basically impenetrable < 1317053764 786203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you write your own script from scratch < 1317053798 922107 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will @ support binaries? < 1317053807 171145 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's that messy-looking bash thing to run a helper process on the background, open two pipes (in and out) for it, and put the fds of the other ends of those pipes into a variable. < 1317053808 158254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define binaries < 1317053814 514213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yoooo, what's a goodchunk < 1317053845 598368 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is this some sort of philoso-ethical question? What makes a good chunk? < 1317053860 441144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, I just cba to get my packet analysis script back out, and need some zlib data to send down the pipe :-) < 1317053906 607697 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're in luck, then, that it doesn't do the NBT thing for chunks. < 1317053920 639244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The network protocol is NBT-free, I believ. < 1317053921 627152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The network protocol is NBT-free, I believe. < 1317053941 637792 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317053945 583491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, I don't suppose you have a zlib chunk hanging around anywhere...? < 1317053972 360240 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, but you can gzip one; the gzip header is just... I forget exactly, but a fixed number of bytes at the start/end/both. < 1317053980 613369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not gzip, it's DEFLATE. < 1317053989 95174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't have an uncompressed chunk lying around either. :p < 1317054004 376963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can generate one or get my packet analysis stuff out, I'm just _so_ _lazy_. < 1317054019 502114 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but gzip is just a very thin wrapper around a DEFLATE stream. < 1317054024 134142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : but binary files are basically impenetrable < 1317054028 731037 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317054033 791254 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just munge the binary into text and then back again. < 1317054045 520365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: aka writing your own script. < 1317054070 466741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is there already an inverse to hd? < 1317054077 532463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To hd? < 1317054085 771719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hexdump. < 1317054090 522182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, probably. < 1317054144 461513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: It's that messy-looking bash thing to run a helper process on the background, open two pipes (in and out) for it, and put the fds of the other ends of those pipes into a variable. <-- definitely wasn't around during bash 3.x which is the last time I did any sort of complex programming in bash < 1317054162 984990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's new-ish, yes. 4.0, I think. < 1317054178 703323 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bash 4.0 introduced the coprocesses, a feature certainly familiar to ksh users." < 1317054342 718923 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it seems that even not in 4.2 have they corrected the bug that there can only be a single active coproc at a time. < 1317054346 672255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I take it sitting here won't cause you to magically remember that you had a compressed chunk lying around. :p I'll go write my own. < 1317054359 167132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What major is the data in? < 1317054407 840554 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's always a series of Y-stacks (so that's the least significant dimension, so to speak), but I'm not quite sure which way the X/Z order goes. Not that it really matters. < 1317054422 320762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, it doesn't, for this symmetrical thing. < 1317054429 932244 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course it has those nybble-based things. < 1317054437 996760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1317054442 930384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that just in the multi set block < 1317054459 150414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, the metadata. < 1317054467 576606 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. The chunk data is a concatenation of blockids, metadata, blocklight and skylight. < 1317054479 479930 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the three latter ones are one nybble per block. < 1317054531 678701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so... (sixty-four times grass layer), (sixty-four times air layer), one-hundred-twenty-eight times (0 layer of nibbles), one-hundred-twenty-eight times (?? layer of nibbles -- what is "full block lighting"?), and then again for sky light (what is full sky lighting?) < 1317054549 222133 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just fill the lights with 0xff, that'll be bright. < 1317054576 624210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1317054579 185950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixty four times grass layer < 1317054579 348928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixty four times air layer < 1317054579 366982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixty four times 0 layer < 1317054579 367143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixty four times 0xff layer < 1317054579 367330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sixty four times 0xff layer < 1317054582 576443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because of nibbles) < 1317054597 395561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And x layer = 256 x. < 1317054687 593677 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I was unclear with the "Y-stacks" comment, what I meant is that byte x*16*128 + z*128 + y corresponds to coordinates x, y, z. < 1317054699 941966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1317054704 53082 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/1242573 < 1317054704 378152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was the other way around. < 1317054708 991690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This complicates things a bit. :p < 1317054714 948415 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :{- | Minecraft Bone Harvest < 1317054715 404159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might even have to... THINK. < 1317054737 120904 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you want something like ((grass x 64).(air x 64))x256 plus the zeros and 0xffs. < 1317054745 37898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1317054767 901426 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ((dirt x 63).(grass).(air x 64))x256 if you want to obey grasshysics. :p < 1317054775 1843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck grasshysics. < 1317054842 419380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grasshysics: literally the worst. < 1317054854 185208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to do? < 1317054869 853858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to generate a chunk? < 1317054892 158644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1317054907 454680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why not just load it from the world data? < 1317054912 615857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NBT shit. < 1317054926 484022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: doesn't mcmap have code for NBT already? < 1317054932 333149 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not mcmap. < 1317054936 460959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1317054949 536318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are grasshisycs, then? < 1317054954 968222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can mcmap even read NBT? < 1317054956 286288 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The way grass spreads. < 1317054957 601219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it just did the write part. < 1317054960 232648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it can because regionfile. < 1317054960 644104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1317054971 943642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can technically grow grass on top of grass, I think? < 1317054975 580236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the staircase method. < 1317054986 706453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grass in place of bedrock is rather more unlikely. < 1317054987 256654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: The way grass spreads. <-- that is trivial? < 1317054989 503047 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, I'm no grassologist. < 1317055011 816957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spreads to exposed dirt blocks in the 8 surrounding blocks iirc? < 1317055017 872485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or doesn't it spread diagonals? < 1317055023 797811 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mcmap can theoretically read, and I think I tested the code a bit too at some point. It did "work" for the smallest possible values of work. < 1317055041 593850 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can definitely have grass genned below grass. < 1317055066 87191 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Grass can spread to any immediately adjacent dirt blocks at the same height, including diagonally. It can also spread one level above and as much as three levels below. -- In order for a grass block to spread, it must have a light level of 9 or brighter directly above it. Additionally, the dirt block receiving grass must have a light level of at least 4 above it and must not be covered by a block that reduces light by 2 levels or more." < 1317055068 291282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah for overhangs and such < 1317055070 362300 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not entirely trivial. < 1317055078 662303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah < 1317055122 441462 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also: "Grass will die and change to dirt after a random time if covered by an opaque block. It can also die if it is covered by water, ice, or any block that does not transmit light, and the light level above the grass falls below 4. -- For example, in direct sunlight, which is light level 15, grass will die with 4 or more water or ice blocks directly on top of it (assuming it isn't getting any extra light from the sides). In Moonlight, which is level < 1317055122 459500 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4, grass will die when covered by a single water or ice block." < 1317055123 497735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that explains why fence on top of dirt below a tree never gets grass on it < 1317055144 38640 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grass grows on fences? < 1317055148 563131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317055149 35003 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of weird universe is that? < 1317055149 490698 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :making working out infix-to-postfix conversion on paper is SO MUCH FUN < 1317055150 798454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :below fences < 1317055159 446464 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/making/man/ ... < 1317055161 791968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I had a reference error there < 1317055209 732678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let layer = replicate 256 < 1317055209 751111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let air = 0 < 1317055209 897559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let grass = 2 < 1317055209 915400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :concat (replicate 256 (replicate 64 grass ++ replicate 64 air)) ++ replicate 64 (layer 0) ++ replicate 64 (layer 0xff) ++ replicate 64 (layer 0xff) < 1317055211 379280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokary. < 1317055218 316062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of a standard DEFLATE tool? < 1317055220 918263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no headers or anything. < 1317055231 472243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/standard/standalone/ < 1317055261 406441 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably make a small wrapper around zlib < 1317055264 797164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: grass growing on fences really freaks me out, for some reason < 1317055275 987071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I could, I was trying to avoid the effort :-) < 1317055284 230854 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a thing that could do it, but not what thing it was. < 1317055292 385404 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gzip header is reasonably easily strippable. < 1317055419 65239 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523_: grass growing on fences really freaks me out, for some reason <-- what? it would just be a bit odd, that is all < 1317055426 851716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean IRL < 1317055442 794430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :80K is the right size for an uncompressed chunk, right? < 1317055452 733601 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Untested code: perl -e 'use IO::Compress::RawDeflate qw(rawdeflate); binmode STDIN, ":raw"; binmode STDOUT, ":raw"; $input = join('', <>); rawdeflate($input, $output) or die; print $output;' < file.in > file.out < 1317055463 557175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay, it would be strange yes. But I'm not sure I would freak out from it? Just some dirt stuck on top of an old wooden fence maybe? < 1317055467 110477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it could happen < 1317055471 698921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen moss on fences, so < 1317055476 806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, like the grass actually growing out of the fence itself. < 1317055499 317730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay that would just be weird. I would probably assume it was something else than grass < 1317055505 58395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> f=open('testchunksmaller', 'w');f.write(zlib.compress(open('testchunk').read(), 9)) < 1317055505 221790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> f.flush() < 1317055505 239798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> f.close() < 1317055506 207924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokay. < 1317055508 174940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like something similar looking < 1317055517 200216 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what's with the PerlIO stuff there? < 1317055546 582353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude System.IO> withBinaryFile "testchunksmaller" ReadMode hGetContents < 1317055546 744188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1317055546 762295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's not right. < 1317055560 836104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1317055563 797737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's obviously not right. < 1317055565 440813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid lazy IO. < 1317055575 976994 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's the first place I found a deflate-file writer in. Anyway, $output seems to have to be a filename or a filehandle or an explicit scalarref or something. < 1317055588 471245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah lazy IO is annoying < 1317055588 943352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , S.mapChunkData = MapChunk "x\218\237\205\&1\DC1\NUL\NUL\b\EOT \239\251w\214\DLE\SO:@\SOH\146\157Z\138\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\ < 1317055588 961066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253~\191\223\239\247\251\253\SI~\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\224^\ETX\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL\NUL=\SOH9\a\129" < 1317055590 721155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's hope that's right. < 1317055594 514209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So don't use it. :p < 1317055598 512622 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1317055600 921828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.hGetContents DidTRT. < 1317055605 458750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's strict.) < 1317055625 702212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I usually don't use lazy IO when coding haskell. < 1317055644 4454 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I think standard deviation might actually be a good measurement to use when doing the space scaling (re: word generator) < 1317055645 855884 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :80K at least is the right size. < 1317055675 590295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehporPekaC: Well, whatever you say. But it's not "scaling", it's just a constant subtraction. < 1317055696 637759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is CakeProphet known as tehporPekaC today? < 1317055698 165493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean the scaling of the [0,1] probability value of a space when the length is >= target. < 1317055702 628267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, it should obviously be exponential. < 1317055737 29395 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes that. < 1317055762 774300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever the base value is, it should be exponential or you won't curtail overly-long words enough. < 1317055775 779510 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm yeah okay standard deviation is bad < 1317055781 301037 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I already pick a target length < 1317055814 220035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehporPekaC: (Note that "target" here is several less than the real target; by exponentially increasing when over the decreased-target, you have a good chance of meeting the /real/ target.) < 1317055815 864838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But you knew that.) < 1317055834 884784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception in thread "Client read thread" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space < 1317055837 525728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... that's... a new one. < 1317055843 302696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear everyone: What? < 1317055857 228338 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I were just generating until I reached a space regardless of target length then using standard deviation to scale the porbability of spaces would result in getting natural word lengths < 1317055868 371341 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you ran out of memory < 1317055869 767011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what < 1317055871 987569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why. < 1317055878 48115 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean and standard deviation < 1317055878 754537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehporPekaC: Well, shure, but that's an inferior way. :p < 1317055887 944972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how should I know? You might have sent something wrong to the client? < 1317055892 533168 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: less precise yes. < 1317055897 620009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess you managed to crash the client several times already? < 1317055908 371319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No crashes yet. < 1317055920 110930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Serialize MapChunk where < 1317055920 129526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : get = do < 1317055920 129666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bytes <- SE.get :: Get Int32 < 1317055920 129775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : MapChunk <$> SE.getByteString (fromIntegral bytes) < 1317055920 129879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : put (MapChunk str) = do < 1317055920 939240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SE.put (fromIntegral (B.length str) :: Int32) < 1317055922 577704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SE.putByteString str < 1317055923 23434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well this one? wasn't it a crash? < 1317055927 22151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "put" end looks right to me. fizzie? Sanity check? < 1317055930 309453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Several times =/= once. < 1317055933 295188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317055942 313128 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you said " No crashes yet." < 1317055945 420379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not true < 1317055948 914807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"only one crash so far" < 1317055949 125791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet as in before this. < 1317055951 201340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is more correct < 1317055952 353267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1317056096 440276 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tehporPekaC: There's an alternative solution which will always hit the target length, and thanks to the Markov assumption really shouldn't affect the distribution of the last characters of a word: when generating a word of length K with trigrams, first generate K-2 characters so that you ignore all "xy " entries. For the penultimate character, only consider such trigrams "xyz" for which any trigram "z? " exists. For the final character, only consider such trigr < 1317056096 612707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ams "xyz" for which "yz " exists. Then stop. Probably more code to implement, though, and not worth it since you want random lengths anyhow. < 1317056131 211658 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Looks fine. < 1317056186 706821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it just gets stuck at downloading terrain now. < 1317056191 336821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing everything the protocol tells me to. < 1317056195 91898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAQ that is. < 1317056222 557359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh here's an obvious bug < 1317056243 688165 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1317056283 78326 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you spawn the player in? (I forget how that sequence goes.) And how much ground do you send out? < 1317056288 994398 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :O < 1317056301 967887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1317056303 608183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : _ <- ifeed < 1317056303 772734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ S.SpawnPosition (Point 0 64 0) < 1317056303 790608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , S.WindowItems (WindowID 0) (WindowItems (replicate 45 Nothing)) < 1317056303 790769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , S.SetSlot (WindowID (-1)) (-1) Nothing < 1317056303 790881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : , S.PlayerPositionLook (PlayerPos (Point 0 64 0) 71.62) (Direction 0 0) True < 1317056304 756853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ] < 1317056306 955853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I send < 1317056308 930248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : sequence_ [ sendChunk (ChunkPos cx cz) | cx <- [-3..3], cz <- [-3..3] ] < 1317056314 798042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I believe comes out to seven by seven if I'm not a complete idiot. < 1317056324 25799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the pre-chunks are necessary; one would certainlyhope not. < 1317056339 954955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they should not harm, should they? < 1317056345 540228 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no. < 1317056353 407651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests it now that he doesn't send those spawn things with every single chunk. < 1317056355 381998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that didn't help. < 1317056362 151145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't the obvious bugs always be the ones actually hurting? < 1317056394 897513 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you dump the initial stuff of your recorded from-server logs, does it do anything special? < 1317056414 347559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are on my backup disk, hrrrrng. < 1317056417 308386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not in textual format. < 1317056425 301774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But da FAQ says this OK. < 1317056435 668869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's been updated... afirly recently. < 1317056437 479060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly < 1317056527 225140 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wheird. < 1317056558 516036 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the FAQ does also say "Sends pre-chunks and chunks and entities", so I suppose pre-chunks should be in there. < 1317056586 70209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yare. < 1317056590 22429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mayhaps I need to send an entity. < 1317056596 107031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the player themselves, mayhaps. < 1317056599 572336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe my serialisation is just: wrong. < 1317056638 780423 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317056674 499924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now I just need to figure out a way to put a "print out everything you're sending" thing into my current server pipeline and maybe Some Light Will Begotten Shed. < 1317056694 172502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317056746 259978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can't you do the same world with bukkit and compare the dumps? < 1317056764 421274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no ``world''. < 1317056829 111311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a world with the test chunks added in I meant < 1317056841 744411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be approximately 999999 more units of work than I can do. < 1317056853 925133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. mcedit could do it < 1317056992 481447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I has: the dumps. < 1317057014 19625 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they look: the good, then? < 1317057029 238632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look: Unreadable. < 1317057052 119765 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose your derived-or-something Show instances print out the chunk data in full. < 1317057055 521875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://sprunge.us/FFQR < 1317057064 99463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, they do. Just as a bytestring, there's no "typing" of map chunks yet. < 1317057067 38199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The zlib data, that is. < 1317057092 439798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you have to send the chunk data in a certain spiral? No, that's ridiculous. < 1317057116 4008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : chunkToBlock (ChunkPos cx cz) = Point (fromIntegral cx * 16) (fromIntegral cz * 16) 0 -- multiplication or shift? < 1317057121 923544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure whether I'm calculating that field of MapChunk right. < 1317057164 513036 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it happens before actual spawning, that sounds strange. And I think it should still spawn, just work glitchily, even if you don't feed it everything. < 1317057195 614672 :tehporPekaC!~adam@h143.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317057210 187884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actualy client doesn't do any out of heap now btw. < 1317057211 663299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just: < 1317057215 129096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) Shows the loading map screen, < 1317057226 1613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) Pops up that "OPEN INVENTORY FOR ACHEIVMETNS LOL" thing in the corner, < 1317057227 972098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(c) Sits there a while < 1317057233 758965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d) The achievement disappears and it goes to a time out screen < 1317057266 64302 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wonder what's up with that one line that looks different; though it does look like an output problem more than anything screwy in the data. < 1317057303 893315 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you doing anything with the packets the client sends? (If it sends any; I don't know.) < 1317057342 732110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which line? < 1317057348 327548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it hard to tell from here. < 1317057372 112687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes; I consume its handshake and login packet, and then just consume data and ignore it for eternity after sending what the FAQ says should be enough to get TEH SPAWNING. < 1317057462 199177 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "ChunkPos 2 (-1)" line looks like it breaks in the middle in the output. < 1317057500 697045 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :With '2 0' starting from there. Anyway, it's probably not dangerous. < 1317057527 298692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, what. < 1317057532 403279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's two MapChunks there? < 1317057541 442667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's Wrong. < 1317057545 719392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : sequence_ [ sendChunk (ChunkPos cx cz) | cx <- [-3..3], cz <- [-3..3] ] < 1317057553 285089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sendChunk just sends a PreChunk and MapChunk in the same data set. < 1317057560 28409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ??????????? < 1317057590 237713 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the PreChunk for 2 (-1), then the MapChunk starts, and then in the middle of the MapChunk the output stops and there's the next PreChunk 2 0, and the corresponding MapChunk. < 1317057613 323686 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where the rest of the 2 (-1) MapChunk went. But it breaks right in the middle of a "\2xx" escape code, so it sounds like it's just a printing thing. < 1317057639 316486 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the server sends all PreChunks first, and then MapChunks after that, but that really doesn't sound like it should matter. < 1317057650 12220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, it's probably just a copy-paste thing then. < 1317057677 879196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'll try removing prechunks. You know, Just In Case. < 1317057785 755744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://sprunge.us/gTSR Just in case anything sticks out to you immediately... < 1317057828 784911 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably just log a single real-server connection and dump that. You might want to keep a serialize-a-logfile-to-text executable around, anyhow. < 1317057838 921897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, removing prechunks does: nothing. < 1317057860 374685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, I know... I probably will just do that. < 1317057873 229340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll involve mucking around with the buildsystem though. Eurgh. < 1317057906 328317 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the Point type like? < 1317057916 873317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three Dubbles. < 1317057929 250085 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in (X, Z, Y) order, right? < 1317057946 236593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1317057949 688058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :N...o? < 1317057952 984823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should they be? < 1317057959 227399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at chunkToBlock. Ah. < 1317057963 183628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, should they be? < 1317057963 507262 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1317057967 947578 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, probably not. < 1317057972 386467 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(X, Y, Z) is more logical. < 1317057975 510699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try that then. < 1317057978 412589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Whoops.) < 1317058005 717422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh -- All that anticipation and it still doesn't bloody work. < 1317058209 412263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: still crashing client? < 1317058227 91668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back. < 1317058233 9759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it crashed the client exactly once. < 1317058236 295418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317058237 288429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it wasn't really a crash. < 1317058241 566456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just errored to the console and kept going. < 1317058246 470543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317058532 799404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mmf, but now I have to name that tool. :/ < 1317058536 84459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :printdump? formatdump? < 1317058541 185475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :formatlog? < 1317058547 627144 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :takeadump. < 1317058551 246428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317058551 905126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1317058553 387731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1317058553 726292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1317058568 320336 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it lets you take a dump and look at it. :p < 1317058607 534959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: printlog? < 1317058621 931442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like it'd communicate with an Actual Printer. < 1317058635 233252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it should start with mc. < 1317058638 356255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To avoid conflicts for global installs. < 1317058646 558049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mc-format-log? < 1317058658 483436 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"deserializearawpacketcapturelogintoaneedlesslyverbosetextualformat". < 1317058662 529943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "mcinspectlog". < 1317058663 150415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: name it "Minecraft Dump Log Formatting & Printing Utility" < 1317058668 448028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdlfpu < 1317058669 14313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is a valid filename on *nix < 1317058675 998048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, the full one I mentioned < 1317058680 125384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid filename < 1317058726 682311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or "Minecraft Dump Log Inspection, Formatting & Printing Utility" < 1317058751 735018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mdlifpu < 1317058753 322211 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :./Minecraft\ Dump\ Log\ Inspection,\ Formatting\ \&\ Printing\ Utility < 1317058756 428057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no like that ^ < 1317058767 119266 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDLFPU, the floating-point unit that's based on the minimum description length principle. *Somehow*. < 1317058779 271722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How about some exclamation marks in there so that double quotes don't work for it with bash? < 1317058786 473256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: awesome idea! < 1317058797 39262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wish you could disable that.) < 1317058800 181830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is so annoying.) < 1317058801 291848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can < 1317058805 418102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can???? < 1317058806 831990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is setopt or set or such < 1317058807 228862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDddddddddddd < 1317058807 558342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1317058809 485286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :histsomething < 1317058812 313213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name of it < 1317058824 913550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, add in both single and double quotes in the name < 1317058828 127220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and backslashes < 1317058853 242409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about I just take a forty meg dump. , off of a server, and make that the name of the tool? < 1317058853 735452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the file is named: Minecraft "Dump" Log Inspection, Formatting & Printing 'Utility\' or such < 1317058882 779945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See now, a filesystem naively implemented on top of @ would support forty meg filenames no problem. < 1317058905 648488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : -H Enable ! style history substitution. This flag is on < 1317058905 839047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : by default when the shell is interactive. < 1317058908 693078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to set ^ < 1317058913 818238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do set +H should work < 1317058930 166549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg it works :DD < 1317058930 794242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1317058971 278777 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that's going to the .bashrc. < 1317058986 879494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that on by default btw? < 1317058988 744943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have suffered in silence. < 1317058989 899266 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had *just* found it from the man bash when you pasted that. < 1317058992 977929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems so utterly stupid < 1317059007 690544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because people think that anything non-interactive is more efficient to use, despite it being a complete duplication of Ctrl+R. < 1317059011 946502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: easier way: help shopt | grep hist then help set | grep hist < 1317059021 965407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :set +histexpand for a more literate version. < 1317059030 63088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, or not. < 1317059031 853636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nohistexpand < 1317059038 100287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure it is the same one < 1317059044 680858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1317059046 824353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says same as -H. < 1317059050 414650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes indeed < 1317059057 856195 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's with "set -o". < 1317059061 3462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it might be set +o histexpand < 1317059065 532579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1317059066 406373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. < 1317059081 71189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's... slightly better than set +H? < 1317059084 3404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no the option syntax for set is not very sane < 1317059148 359874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317059149 669023 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never really liked the "+foo is negative, -foo is positive" thing, even though it is... if not common, then at least not unheard-of. < 1317059201 101724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1317059224 640298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and something like set +o noglob is downright confusing < 1317059232 542511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is uh... "enable logging"? < 1317059235 66906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1317059237 2285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :globbing* < 1317059240 556755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird typo < 1317059294 677966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit. libreoffice update < 1317059298 516433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to take ages. < 1317059334 543240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317059362 918023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Eurgh, a multiple-executable solution is annoying. < 1317059375 86564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to make all the current stuff a library and the like. < 1317059381 194293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just add a flag to mchost. < 1317059384 577052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mchost --analyse dump or something. < 1317059404 91232 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, installed that 'tig' thing. < 1317059424 987920 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In yet other news, InfiniBand is such a silly name. < 1317059427 125629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wonderful thing about tiggers is that fizzie's the only one. < 1317059495 744820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor fizzie :( < 1317059504 836683 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Our faculty cluster's been offline for the last week, because it moved to another physical location; it was supposed to open on Monday, but apparently they need to replace an InfiniBand switch still. Or, well, HP needs.) < 1317059562 535334 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89F18.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317059562 614578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : In yet other news, InfiniBand is such a silly name. <-- yes, but why did you bring that up now? < 1317059566 736648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and what is "tig"? < 1317059575 66420 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1317059583 944679 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tig' is this ncurses-based git browser thing elliott pointed me at earlier today. < 1317059589 716076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317059597 213519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: any useful? < 1317059621 616519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's prettier than gitk. :p < 1317059630 166693 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a shortlog-like view, a log view, a tree-browser, a blame mode thing, a differying thing and so on. < 1317059660 787730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should install it if it's the New Thing. < 1317059679 841532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you just grab a tarball/make/install, or? < 1317059685 205573 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just aptituded it. < 1317059701 40459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'll be offline for a bit. Cya. < 1317059703 562355 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly not bleeding edge, again. < 1317059706 18648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1317059722 206246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it seems to be up to March date. < 1317059729 407177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't realise it was pacpakcpakcpakpackpakged. < 1317059736 974754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jonas.nitro.dk/tig/NEWS.html < 1317059740 428004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to decide HOW VITAL THESE CHANGES ARE. < 1317059757 402279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Add support for blaming diff lines." Fancy. < 1317059780 29324 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graph mode ('g' in main view) is not quite as pretty as gitg's colorful twisty lines, though. < 1317059797 135093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks fine for mchost, which has exactly 0 divergences. :p < 1317059816 476886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how do you use it as a pager, I wonder. < 1317059842 495438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PAGER=tig git diff" Well, not like that. < 1317059875 618358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"git show | tig" works. < 1317059881 203745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, as does "git diff | tig". < 1317060075 838860 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tig status" looks reasonable also; it gives a (colorized) "git status" output, except you can select files to see the diffs. < 1317060083 567333 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure I can remember to use this thing though. < 1317060262 242930 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit confusing. If I do "tig status", enter shows the diff of the selected file, but 'd' switches to the "diff view" which shows (full-screened) the diff of the latest commit. And if I 'q' out of that back to the diff view of the selected file, it shows in full screen, but the arrows don't scroll it, instead they change the selected file in the (now invisible) "tig status" file list. < 1317060279 509725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a magic. < 1317060369 191584 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1317061159 438624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's tig? < 1317061173 114560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, found it in scrollback < 1317061373 518989 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reminds me of cgdb (a curses gdb frontend) a bit; it was sort-of nifty, and not too shabby, but for some reason I never quite got around to actually habitually using it. < 1317061408 913089 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same goes with GDB's own TUI thing, except that was also buggy as anything. < 1317061706 330632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you know of any file formats I could output in that would let someone browse it as the "flat" (Constructor arg arg arg) format, but click on a given packet to expand it to have names for all those fields? :p < 1317061716 861387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to strike a balance between "lol ten fields what" and "oh god every packet takes up ten lines". < 1317061735 807622 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML. :p < 1317061747 195256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know of a prewritten tool for XML that would offer that presentation. < 1317061774 138491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I can think of is an ordered (key,value) storage with really lax keys; I could store the flat form as the key. < 1317061893 94730 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317061950 597463 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen some XML editors... and doesn't Firefox do it too if you point it at a styleless XML file? (I mean, show it as tree; then you'd just format that as ...values of the fields either as text or as elements... , and a tree-oriented XML tool would just show the constructor and argument names.) < 1317061976 782815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : will not be valid. < 1317061983 862193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless is valid. < 1317062006 861273 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317062058 600730 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like having the field values in there. I was assuming you didn't want to show those. Or did you mean just "I want all data visible but on one line, and then expanded on click". < 1317062109 709938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it all visible inline, and if you click on it to expand it I want to be able to see the same data, but with field names before it. < 1317062115 564074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe even with the values aligned all fancy-like. < 1317062124 442945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I could just print out some simple HTML < 1317062181 269031 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds possible. You can even embed in some scripting to do the show/hide thing if you want. < 1317062196 236396 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played monopoly today < 1317062207 124541 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... would let you show everything inline, but it'll probably look real clumsy. < 1317062214 897675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeees, that sounds clumsy. < 1317062218 351538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scripting was what I was thinking of doing. < 1317062837 51533 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317063685 154538 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot it was Monday < 1317063688 641422 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Mondays < 1317063697 530110 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mondays are University Challenge Days < 1317063731 410335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is #esoteric the University Challenge Fan Club? < 1317063737 7081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on in here too < 1317063766 518591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: least enthusiastic fanclub ever < 1317063771 455883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1317063964 904578 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317064654 893080 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317064695 498270 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello esoteric! < 1317064828 795175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317064830 599532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1317064832 352074 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1317064879 461970 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1317064883 743921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You, start greeting people too. < 1317064884 137322 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it doesn't *use* raw cgi. to my deep fnord i'm only fnord of the job description. it's badly fnord also. < 1317064903 328087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote fizzie: it doesn't *use* raw cgi. to my deep fnord i'm only fnord of the job description. it's badly fnord also. < 1317064903 655091 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i lived in the north east!! i'm having too much fun < 1317064904 958727 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :685) fizzie: it doesn't *use* raw cgi. to my deep fnord i'm only fnord of the job description. it's badly fnord also. < 1317064908 267244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1317064916 325532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What style is it on. < 1317064920 133607 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1317064920 279001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is it mentioning the north east. < 1317064920 297165 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1317064925 146922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augh. < 1317064925 478869 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The usual." < 1317064935 512967 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my registered nickname....i am the guy who was working on assembler to bainfuck converter < 1317065107 305385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't you had three nicks now? :-) < 1317065266 825881 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:but they were not registered < 1317065277 358773 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is final one...as i have registered this < 1317065300 803510 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my previous nicks were "dell" & "kaus" < 1317065314 27479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1317065326 963304 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1317065393 166643 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I will fnord you so hard you fnord your fnord. < 1317065393 655870 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's a nice number. even numbers are also fnord difficult/ big to implement which is why i do this < 1317065402 870880 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: sdf < 1317065403 199136 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadhu: what lisp does with lists... lua does with hash tables. < 1317065410 124398 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1317065421 824162 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you a dumb goat ? < 1317065422 156356 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadhu: i idly searched for your email and tell me what the fuck < 1317065457 824719 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the #emacs ,fsbot its amazing! < 1317065501 582042 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 NICK :ikkyu < 1317065506 850169 :ikkyu!kaus@117.201.49.192 NICK :sadhu < 1317065509 157753 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's probably implemented in something really boring. < 1317065518 363231 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs lisp < 1317065525 586537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle (a -> m b) -> a -> m (a,b) < 1317065526 124271 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1317065529 488776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame. < 1317065541 274094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?undo do x <- a; x' <- f x; return (x,x') < 1317065541 621045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a >>= \ x -> f x >>= \ x' -> return (x, x') < 1317065545 63491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl a >>= \ x -> f x >>= \ x' -> return (x, x') < 1317065545 646663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (>>=) f ((return .) . (,)) =<< a < 1317065548 182961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1317065554 960612 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How... obvious. < 1317065571 581229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \line -> unless (null line) (putStrLn (reverseWords line) >> main) < 1317065572 226184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 unless null ((>> main) . putStrLn . reverseWords) < 1317065592 256169 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot:fuck you! < 1317065593 246064 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life. < 1317065600 320033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadhu: :( < 1317065600 978371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rude < 1317065618 855527 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Where do you *get* that stuff? < 1317065619 488936 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i saw the movie of the book deals almost exclusively with sushi, actually... creative. < 1317065620 808155 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott :P < 1317065683 819052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1317065695 559411 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oe, it's rjan. < 1317065709 612708 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The first two letters sound somehow interjectish.) < 1317065713 399824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fie, it's zzie! < 1317065738 284007 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered registering "zzie.fi" as my "primary" domain. < 1317065754 606089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what email to use? < 1317065771 86240 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye, there's the rub. fi.zzie@zzie.fi? < 1317065798 666375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly. < 1317065805 576425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if@zzie.fi would be nice if only @ were . < 1317065813 414742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi@zzie.fi is alright, I have to admit. < 1317065815 222776 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heiki.kallasjokki@zzie.fi < 1317065819 344308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you become fazzie? < 1317065821 309435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heikki < 1317065825 918543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f@zzie.fa < 1317065826 902895 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I eat enough. < 1317065840 284323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDdd < 1317065851 990211 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1317065864 355640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i helped someone... twice......... http://hpaste.org/51809 < 1317065868 796698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think my second helping was good... < 1317065873 112801 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Tisk tisk. < 1317065889 407510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually it reads OK if you had flipped (.) :P < 1317065891 975260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: all you need to do is become irish and register fi@zz.ie < 1317065909 680324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ whois zz.ie < 1317065909 698289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program 'whois' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: < 1317065909 698437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get install whois < 1317065910 181746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How. < 1317065918 567101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xubuntu, your smallness is lies. < 1317065958 270592 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just keeps telling me what .ie domains should be like. < 1317065971 515776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not like this", in other words? :-P < 1317065972 798740 :sadhu!kaus@117.201.49.192 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317065979 781352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP sadhu. < 1317065982 967579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl (>> a) . b < 1317065983 570386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>> a) . b < 1317065985 563807 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know, none of the conditions seem to rule out zz.ie. < 1317065991 853736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try whois sdojflkgslkdfgd.ie < 1317066013 901066 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :% Not Registered - The domain you have requested (sdojflkgslkdfgd.ie) is not a registered .ie domain name. < 1317066017 686786 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a different message. < 1317066023 939592 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : -be less than 66 characters in length, including the '.ie' characters < 1317066023 958630 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-not start with a hyphen '-' < 1317066023 958782 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-not have a label ending in a hyphen before the '.ie' e.g. 'xyz-.ie' < 1317066023 958889 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-not start with 'xn--' which is reserved for IDN usage, e.g. �ire.ie < 1317066024 104844 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-contain at least 5 characters, including the three for '.ie' < 1317066026 409783 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-have at least one alphabetic character, e.g. ' would be invalid' < 1317066038 91261 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't see why zz.ie would be wrong according to those. < 1317066039 245912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -have at least one alphabetic character, e.g. ' would be invalid' < 1317066039 910827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1317066059 12188 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ask me. Maybe it's a conversion thing somewhere. < 1317066104 445947 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The .fi root allows two-letter registrations, but only when they do not match existing TLDs, and since there are so many of them ccTLDs, quite a lot of them are reserved. < 1317066112 181181 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And all the legal ones are already registered.) < 1317066121 387020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1317066137 355682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are still one-character domains on sale. < 1317066139 338267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excluding TLD. < 1317066164 713298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know .st charge exorbitant prices for two-characters. < 1317066177 322544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But seem to reserve all one-chars.) < 1317066179 624861 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the shortest domain you can buy is presumably three characters + a dot? < 1317066196 616993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I believe so. It is one of my goals to own one of these domains :P < 1317066203 33454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was working on a script to narrow down the list. < 1317066204 677770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: null line `unless` do < 1317066209 945352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1317066246 23800 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend just registered uv.fi. (All the legal two-character .fi's have been registered for a while now, but that one expired recently. There's three others in the "grace period" about to go, but I don't think I want any of them. The difference between two and three characters isn't all that huge.) < 1317066248 750820 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not as good as libc.so < 1317066250 235665 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :'( < 1317066253 716374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just? < 1317066269 583942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if I get a one-char domain, whooo boy am I gonna sell that thing :P < 1317066270 402665 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a week or so ago. < 1317066281 630417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do you think an UP AND COMING URL SHORTENER STARTUP would pay for a four keypress domain < 1317066287 101499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is MORE MONEY THAN I NEED. < 1317066310 146211 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why compete with t.co? < 1317066328 880954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Can non-twat things even use t.co? :-P < 1317066341 163505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, I said "startup", "url shortener"; the brain of the hypothetical reader is not expected to be active. < 1317066363 871661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The link service at http://t.co is only used on links posted on Twitter and is not available as a general shortening service. < 1317066363 889736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1317066475 760920 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I spose not. < 1317066481 856102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i assume your hpaste got an answer to the question he actually asked. < 1317066496 766283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, I answered that in-channel :P < 1317066499 564990 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICANN New gTLD Applicant Guidebook does not seem to specify any minimum length. If they would (except I really don't think they will) accept a single-letter domain, you could own, say, "x". < 1317066504 667308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hpaste guy < 1317066512 572354 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://x/. i@x. < 1317066518 498914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's Ian at n@ai. < 1317066522 712686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ai./ < 1317066534 74331 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's pretty close already. < 1317066552 943721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I could turn down elli@tt. < 1317066556 855036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he's an ai so he doesn't count, obviously he just hacked it < 1317066567 655921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone wanna give me elli@tt? < 1317066590 261107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, Anguilla is FLAT. < 1317066593 541912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Anguilla-aerial_view_western_portion.jpg < 1317066595 186993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like really flat. < 1317066600 513745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I slammed the door, I'll have to come off for the rest of the night bye guys < 1317066604 435927 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317066623 263385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1317066632 428328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1317066633 566297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1317066637 847802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my power cord is frayed < 1317066638 509514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so ian will be the first guy to lose his email due to global warming? < 1317066646 736252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i < 1317066650 455563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i will not use this computer < 1317066666 457692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1317066667 780166 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just electricity, how dangerous could it be? < 1317066674 854243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote It's just electricity, how dangerous could it be? < 1317066676 861640 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :686) It's just electricity, how dangerous could it be? < 1317066678 636499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inspiring words from an inspiring man. < 1317066699 452 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be one of those "famous last words" quotations. < 1317066846 178013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He touched hiiiiiigh voltage" (to the tune of blue velvet) < 1317066984 434488 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Come to think of it, how can your hypothetical new shortener compete with Tweak? < 1317066985 565622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ai./offshore.jpg < 1317066986 57758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me. < 1317067012 523455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i./rule/ < 1317067030 595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: < 1317067032 110932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tweak: http://hopud.tk < 1317067032 129100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x.ab: http://x.ab/q9 < 1317067037 708624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it's a bubble, but then so are URL shorteners. < 1317067067 976615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to generate a looping tweak. < 1317067070 935801 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nuff. < 1317067079 985422 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is it predictable? < 1317067081 993292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WILL ONLY TAKE ME 999999999 BILLION YEARS < 1317067083 612267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Nope :P < 1317067088 595584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's a hash, but... < 1317067090 408135 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1317067095 346689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it can't be a pure hash < 1317067098 640699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because people can register .tks :P < 1317067109 663978 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD Tweak is brilliant. < 1317067132 418030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to visit Tokelau and tell them what crimes are being committed in their name. < 1317067145 980821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whities: Literally the worst. < 1317067165 6881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First they come and take your land, then they give you internet in exchange for your domain then they fucking hand out your fucking domains as fucking shortened URLs. < 1317067167 307416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deprecated: "Please import from Control.Monad.ST.Unsafe instead; This will be removed in the next release" < 1317067177 509482 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously needed for SafeHaskell < 1317067181 298392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317067185 178475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safe as skull. < 1317067196 399978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why on earth has subpixel rendering regressed in this version of Ubuntu? < 1317067201 951134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How's the subpixels on the Debian side of camp :P < 1317067472 394440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vault Hey, I am a pubamalished developamator. < 1317067475 621137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no haddock < 1317067479 939699 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317067484 213104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame hackage. < 1317067489 314015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either slow or something went wrong. < 1317067495 572150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's done in batches < 1317067498 159626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give it a day or two. < 1317067510 588745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but < 1317067520 420479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://raw.github.com/HeinrichApfelmus/vault/master/src/Data/Vault.hs < 1317067520 572792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://raw.github.com/HeinrichApfelmus/vault/master/src/Data/Vault/ST.hs < 1317067523 25014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ignore the actual code :-) < 1317067528 224370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very shrot < 1317067529 702892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :short < 1317067644 809351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i fail to detect the "persistent" part < 1317067664 678498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is the _other_ kind of persistence < 1317067672 889971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1317067672 907465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_data_structure < 1317067688 843630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. immutable, based on transforming < 1317067698 55301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with sharing implied) < 1317067708 326485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than an STArray or whatever < 1317067744 226950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aha. does this mean you can implement STT in this? < 1317067753 276580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yep, I think so. < 1317067760 841738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see: < 1317067778 189950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Somewhat interestingly, I discovered, hacking on my own version (which all these changes a backported from) before this repository existed, that Vault s is actually isomorphic to ST s ()! Key s a becomes STRef s (Maybe a), and insert looks like insert k x m = m >> writeSTRef k (Just x). lookup is lookup k m = unsafeRunST (m >> readSTRef r), where unsafeRunST :: ST s a -> a (implementable as unsafePerformIO . unsafeSTToIO). Unfortunately, I don't < 1317067778 351299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : believe this implementation is very efficient; it has to run every STRef operation on every single lookup." < 1317067779 504377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/HeinrichApfelmus/vault/pull/1 < 1317067795 894704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically yes, you can use Vault as the state of the STRefs < 1317067802 480346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which become pre-filled Keys < 1317067820 471176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STT is really not problematic at all, just not really efficient < 1317067922 957718 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317067931 847343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think I might understand enough about @'s memory model to start implementing it; apart from the mammoth task of making the GC work well, there's only one obstacle I can think of. < 1317068046 828414 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is? < 1317068052 261409 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1317068071 441046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Basically, there needs to be a mapping from the abstract virtual address to location on disk. < 1317068077 955545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because when the pointer is dereferenced... you gotta fetch it. < 1317068085 870658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's simply a matter of microoptimising that lookup. < 1317068088 892429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diskwise. < 1317068110 837294 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how it's done, but I know this is actually *precisely* what is done with swap. < 1317068166 900813 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in principle this should be doable with fairly standard techniques. < 1317068214 919115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's also basically a standard filesystem... < 1317068229 664305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Address 0a9df9 --> file /0/a/9/d/f/9 < 1317068249 280072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that the maximum number of files in each directory is fixed and tiny, as are the names of those files. < 1317068254 740371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no metadata to store. < 1317068256 683062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's quite a lot simpler. < 1317068287 663512 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, more or less you'd have a page table on disk. < 1317068350 158308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point. < 1317068351 12521 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. Yeah, thinking about it more this is genuinely mundane kernel implementation stuff. < 1317068369 117797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep... can you tell I don't have much traditional kernel dev experience? :-) < 1317068372 242112 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317068377 553859 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that I have more, yes. :P < 1317068392 468158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Page_Table I don't know what this is, but it looks snazzy. < 1317068393 442427 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my fanciest kernel is only technically one. < 1317068438 47739 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. It's a scheme to do paging in ring 3. < 1317068497 764996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I was also thinking that I forgot to neglect something important in my allocator design... < 1317068505 490925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Namely that every @ object is immutable. < 1317068516 998907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So any change of a page won't be /mutating/ an object, it'll be creating a new one. < 1317068528 898135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It might be creating a new one at the exact same location an old one used to be, but still.) < 1317068579 947076 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, immutability probably makes your GC a *little* bit easier. < 1317068597 134473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It also makes it incredibly vital. < 1317068607 174533 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1317068612 836912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC isn't just "that thing that stops things leaking memory", it's "the thing that lets me run a program for more than two seconds without running out of RAM". < 1317068714 742488 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you can run for more than two seconds without running out of RAM. However, you'll start thrashing like hell, because @ doesn't maintain a RAM/disk dichotomy. :) < 1317068740 461044 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll take twelve seconds to run out of disk. < 1317068741 618258 :Ngevd!~nathan@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317068755 310037 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: More than that. < 1317068760 579747 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Significantly more. < 1317068766 772680 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Disk is *slow*. < 1317068778 698698 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My disk is 10M < 1317068780 280214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how @ is designed for a disk that can be written to every five seconds constantly, but also one with SSD-style random access times. < 1317068786 50396 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 12 seconds, then. < 1317068791 151417 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods :P < 1317068794 793615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we just saw a magnetic disk and an SSD in half and then glue them together? < 1317068848 178141 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, if you're never GC'ing, you'll only perform a write to each disk block once... < 1317068861 256383 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And once that's done you're done. < 1317068869 486444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ITT: Not even a vaguely useful model of what @ will do :P < 1317068900 371033 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will if you don't GC. Hope you only ever need a few minutes of compute time! < 1317068905 183404 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. SSD < 1317068907 477243 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 seconds. < 1317068913 878088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how @ becomes much MORE complex by REMOVING mutation. < 1317068920 407570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, making non-mutation the common thing :P < 1317068962 244656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317068970 962564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Phantom_Hoover's slammed door's ghost. < 1317068983 633023 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317068985 122583 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ?hoogle (a -> m b) -> a -> m (a,b) < 1317068989 340661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1317069007 688333 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1317069007 706346 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1317069009 593121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle arr a b -> arr a (a,b) < 1317069010 296650 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Arrow (&&&) :: Arrow a => a b c -> a b c' -> a b (c, c') < 1317069010 467607 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.MaxFlow maxFlowgraph :: (DynGraph gr, Num b, Ord b) => gr a b -> Node -> Node -> gr a (b, b) < 1317069011 79688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be so much easier if monads were also arrows. i think. < 1317069013 543858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What a massive surprise < 1317069017 164639 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, non-mutable on-disk structure is not as weird as you might think. Many recent filesystems actually COW each block. < 1317069018 653580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an arrow function on Kleisli < 1317069021 622309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WOULD NEVER HAVE GUESSED < 1317069023 437362 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, ZFS and btrfs. < 1317069033 843512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yah, I know. < 1317069042 353279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sharing is going to be very important to @. < 1317069050 211680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's better if you can /avoid/ GCing by simply building deduplicatively. < 1317069057 138739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As a bonus, you get versioning. < 1317069058 485288 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1317069130 306633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x -> f x >>= (liftM $ (,) x) < 1317069132 38322 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a1 (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => (a -> m (m a1)) -> a -> m (a, a1) < 1317069138 18962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1317069138 846823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs a join < 1317069166 471939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x -> f x >>= (flip $ (,) x) < 1317069168 166532 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' < 1317069168 376723 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `(a1, b1)' < 1317069168 397290 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `(,)' is applied to too many arguments < 1317069173 713240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1317069185 69189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1317069208 283869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x -> (,) x `liftM` f x < 1317069209 459637 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1 (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => (a -> m a1) -> a -> m (a, a1) < 1317069225 628699 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`liftM`? nice < 1317069227 354689 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: liftM`?: not found < 1317069233 472222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to <$> < 1317069241 58230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x -> (x,) <$> f x < 1317069242 124626 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal tuple section: use -XTupleSections < 1317069248 316955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f x -> (,) x <$> f x < 1317069249 354289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1 (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> f a1) -> a -> f (a, a1) < 1317069249 456888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i didn't want to mix Functor into the type < 1317069255 547939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well it should be functor really... < 1317069255 877297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \f x -> (,) x <$> f x < 1317069256 483417 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (<$>) (,) < 1317069260 514129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1317069263 476677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right it is < 1317069272 903713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t liftA2 (<$>) (,) < 1317069274 174746 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069279 178236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, now _nobody_ can understand it < 1317069293 605141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it got short < 1317069301 415553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lesson to be learnt is that explicit tuple programming is ugly < 1317069305 858422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole point of applicative style is to avoid it < 1317069315 177065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pay attention, arrows < 1317069331 803110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<$>) (<$>) (,) <*> < 1317069333 94817 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1317069340 109648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1317069341 422681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan... < 1317069344 418716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not code... < 1317069345 51613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((<$>) (<$>) (,) <*>) < 1317069346 245326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069354 614803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1317069363 175363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat? < 1317069375 845686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an obvious transformation of above < 1317069378 640881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what surprises you < 1317069387 880693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap (fmap fmap (,)) < 1317069389 63323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069391 362169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quality < 1317069412 894943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (((<$>) <$> (,)) <*>) < 1317069414 100982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069415 854537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why the WHAT < 1317069434 992270 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better without spaces. < 1317069439 569925 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((<$>)<$>(,))<*>) < 1317069445 662765 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *there's* a function to be feared. < 1317069452 131046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap`fmap`(,)`ap` < 1317069453 356163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1317069455 973338 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap(fmap<$>(,)) < 1317069457 52684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069465 803270 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317069494 435300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap$fmap<$>(,) < 1317069495 680272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069498 429210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap$(<$>)<$>(,) < 1317069499 746644 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069518 393130 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why does this use tuples anyway < 1317069522 32686 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1317069529 478311 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1317069529 496697 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1317069535 69165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: why the WHAT <-- WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT CODE < 1317069554 138106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1317069671 969913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap.fmap fmap < 1317069673 203991 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b (f :: * -> *). (Monad m, Functor f, Functor m) => m (a -> b) -> m (f a) -> m (f b) < 1317069728 472925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that liftA2 is in the (x ->) monad isn't it < 1317069760 81775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1317069767 24439 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1317069767 42227 :plycke!~pling@0x5550d91b.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Excess Flood < 1317069771 920123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the (a ->) applicative, more precisely < 1317069777 20400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did we just avoid spmabots < 1317069778 540982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1317069805 633711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (((<<$>)Prelude..(,))<*>) < 1317069806 691563 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `<<$>' < 1317069811 167674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (((<$>)Prelude..(,))<*>) < 1317069812 420480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069826 658474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ap$(.).(,) < 1317069827 894717 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069833 179052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :') < 1317069853 49030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((.).(,)<*>) < 1317069854 211344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *) a1. (Functor f) => (a1 -> f a) -> a1 -> f (a1, a) < 1317069860 623803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shall forever be known as the "breasts and kirby" operator... < 1317069883 129867 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1317070525 108779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life. < 1317070525 603002 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sad things like jews in germany in the extra clauses which require blocks, you need to install < 1317070526 753566 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :687) sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord < 1317070532 288816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1317070541 516547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no :( < 1317070544 86396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 687 < 1317070545 942710 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* < 1317070550 834486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a log thing < 1317070553 116757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1317070566 783917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of [date time] < 1317070567 280356 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er... o?)) for instance, the concept of dense death, not dense enough death resembles a ca engine ran out of humour last night. < 1317070569 911280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1317070571 744963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know < 1317070572 902183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be memorised < 1317070657 241775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why _did_ HackEgo cut that, it's reply isn't actually longer < 1317070666 992550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1317070679 169459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life. < 1317070679 963277 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: et tu, brute? ( it has gambit 3; i just haven't seen anything similar since stopped saying " leapt") ( url-encode " foo/ bar/ y/g and < 1317070680 701071 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :687) sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord < 1317070699 236110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail -1 quotes < 1317070700 695431 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus < 1317070722 286281 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego.... < 1317070729 285958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tail -1 quotes | sed 's/^................................//' < 1317070730 749276 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hat boole is the crowning jewel perched precariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess, casting its limitless limpid light over the loathesome lands of those who scuff and wallow in the dreary dust of digital depravity and unbounded wilful ignorance of the testament of our lord jesus christ into your life. < 1317070747 534298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it _is_ all there in the database. < 1317070800 376070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes but come on..... < 1317070806 643123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw you could have used .{n} < 1317070808 280757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WE THINK HACKEGO CUTS A LITTLE CLOSE < 1317070843 7534 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317070857 668307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: somehow i find {n} hard to recall since i rarely use it < 1317070900 824116 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1317070900 844092 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1317070941 706918 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder where it found the whole jewel perched percariously upon the perfect peak of programmer prowess thing < 1317070954 270941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what the context was < 1317070954 326074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made it up with its imagination....... < 1317070958 200682 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh........ < 1317070961 300855 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good imagination < 1317070962 537113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs a dramatic reading that < 1317070978 864003 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i just think that as long as it is in the database, HackEgo can be fixed. < 1317071055 72069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unless it is really too long....... < 1317071095 477748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it isn't, HackEgo's quote reply starts to the left of my `addquote < 1317071105 850457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the general adjustment < 1317071124 597200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well < 1317071161 575822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my *!*@* string is also longer < 1317071303 363751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no reason why HackEgo needs to cut it off when i don't. < 1317071382 11574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: note that you need to account for like three bytes of difference due to server crap < 1317071390 740155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and HackEgo is longer than oerjan < 1317071404 785836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although your hostname should balance that out < 1317071453 822631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the amount that HackEgo is longer is balanced out by 687) being shorter than `addquote < 1317071467 646810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your MOM is shorter than addquote or something < 1317071473 84263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh uh < 1317071477 196292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot you're on my mom joke blacklist < 1317071478 22108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1317071485 16599 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317071815 534191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :google's occasional messing up of IE's history is getting eerie - i am sure it was at least _weeks_ ago i did that google search. < 1317071847 204756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BET DDG DOESN'T DO THAT < 1317071888 899953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, istr the iwc forum also does, so it's probably not strictly a google bug. < 1317071926 121677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the first time it came up with a page that i clearly cannot recall from the same IE session. < 1317071965 40818 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an ie bug < 1317072020 40990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably. < 1317072051 973530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vault has docs now < 1317072081 805750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well i already read the files you linked :P < 1317072097 968406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good, good < 1317072132 717030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hope you enjoyed the implementation :DDD < 1317072155 306099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*browsed < 1317072164 689092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude they're like forty lines :P < 1317072176 530574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TL;DR < 1317072207 274185 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-19-168.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317072264 433911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317072285 24691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: elliott == tiffany. < 1317072292 104285 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-19-168.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o~o < 1317072310 347553 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bizarro world elliott < 1317072327 36833 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can only make ridiculous faces < 1317072329 639768 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bizarro world elliott is an emoticon bot. < 1317072386 632823 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we concluded that tiffany was a person with bot-like tendencies. < 1317072488 563184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap 'bot' and 'person', and then yes. < 1317073149 172308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*chirp* < 1317073253 626178 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89F18.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317073301 84766 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, meanwhile, has begun his transformation into a mooshroom. < 1317073307 145576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean a chipmunk. < 1317073312 583202 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even. < 1317073433 206563 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that go *chirp*: mushrooms, chipmunks < 1317073475 539789 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317073498 667487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mushrooms are noted for their chirps. < 1317073529 214293 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And signal processing folks. < 1317073682 554975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i thought it was the sound of crickets. < 1317074035 654461 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317074043 369908 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sound of tumbleweeds, no? < 1317074095 14975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes reddit's r/particlephysics is not very active. < 1317074117 238747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only two posts about the neutrinos < 1317074167 921732 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the participants have tragically been annihilated in redditor-antiredditor collisions. < 1317074170 831053 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317074180 813317 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1317074182 679877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sounds plausible. < 1317074207 758785 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an occupational hazard for a particle physicist. < 1317074219 997921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin might meet a similar destiny if his nicks ever touch < 1317074239 344242 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1317074252 237236 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that there's anything about impacts between objects and coöbjects. < 1317074278 130311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure co- includes all forms of duality. < 1317074317 252444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you combine vectors and covectors the wrong way, all you end up with is a single number. < 1317074389 265546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you do it the other way, you suddenly find yourself in the matrix. < 1317074431 912911 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to me both numbers and matrices are members of vector spaces, and thus vectors. So I'm not entirely sure why that's relevant. :P < 1317074497 13999 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1317074498 955462 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :586) I gave her the Noblesse Oblige rooms. She was happy with them even when they were behind 2 locked doors and a floodgate and full of water. < 1317074515 670324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiird < 1317074534 347344 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1317074569 431182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but numbers are one-dimensional. he'd have most of his personality wiped out! < 1317074616 27279 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be quite sad, wouldn't it? < 1317074639 224916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i take it this dorf lady was sort of crazy and needed to be kept away from people. < 1317074678 480602 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll be... at the OUTER LIM^H^H^HPRODUCTS. < 1317074679 632298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, do you mean she couldn't actually get to her rooms < 1317074750 867099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also didn't you ground yourself preemptively just a while ago? < 1317074779 22935 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: i take it this dorf lady was sort of crazy and needed to be kept away from people. < 1317074781 584 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually no. < 1317074810 607782 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I built the rooms to drown annoying nobles and I'd just used them on the mayor. < 1317074819 457955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1317074823 112662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had forgotten to fit a drain. < 1317074844 303965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it her stay was somewhat short. < 1317075037 320449 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317075057 221416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317075064 285749 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, actually, it wasn't, since all her demands were for adamantine stuff so they were fulfilled just by kitting out the military. < 1317075148 719454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1317075191 597787 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think she died when I handed the fort over to elliott and he cocked it all up, though. < 1317075220 471739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking! < 1317075278 598599 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317075845 476402 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1317076093 810910 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317076259 167821 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1317076260 960259 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317077670 770923 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317077852 267323 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1317077914 579576 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317077932 794510 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-244-93.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317078083 716348 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1317078509 834837 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317078639 136859 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317079569 733631 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317079730 572170 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317080189 386983 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317081583 290108 :CakeProphet!~adam@c-24-126-235-176.hsd1.ga.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317081591 475450 :CakeProphet!~adam@c-24-126-235-176.hsd1.ga.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1317081591 493277 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric