< 1317686672 513216 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip98-185-253-33.sb.sd.cox.net QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1317687069 831813 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Bai~ < 1317687359 970184 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317687537 575005 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317687755 109612 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317687785 197368 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317687792 410238 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317688074 341010 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1317688081 940744 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317688152 691813 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317688751 182312 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added another function to barrier monads module: replaceFail :: (String -> String) -> Barrier f b t -> Barrier f b t; < 1317688768 755420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also added the instance of Alternative so that you can use <|> < 1317688801 394894 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317688811 120127 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317688893 39857 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can map the front type, back type, return type, and the fail message. < 1317688973 83747 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317689072 741276 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317689106 974354 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1317689151 193073 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317689322 979204 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added bindFail :: (String -> Barrier f b t) -> Barrier f b t -> Barrier f b t; < 1317689362 35643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(replaceFail is really a specialized kind of bindFail, I suppose) < 1317689437 40808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t catch < 1317689444 423303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lambdabot < 1317689463 709614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i think your bindFail resembles the catch functions < 1317689497 604753 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317689504 82359 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is similar. But catch is for IO and for Exception. < 1317689526 906515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :catch :: Exception e => IO a -> (e -> IO a) -> IO a < 1317689531 784438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also a variant for MonadError < 1317689546 949689 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317689548 702314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be able to make an instance < 1317689562 257381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. What is MonadError? < 1317689662 419823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/mtl/2.0.1.0/doc/html/Control-Monad-Error.html < 1317689754 441646 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, yes, I suppose it can do so. < 1317689817 170895 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That program I was working on yesterday? < 1317689818 884169 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i53.tinypic.com/2rdg21j.png < :3 < 1317689848 714492 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dumped the raw data from the FFT into the image. I'm quite sure the two halves are related in some way. < 1317689859 390711 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(top and bottom half) < 1317689998 119772 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i51.tinypic.com/rhl380.png < that makes more sense < 1317690002 917967 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :This API is a little wacky >> < 1317690045 390968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I removed bindFail and replaceFail and use MonadError instead, now. > 1317690501 967402 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317690537 82387 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317690671 890361 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317690671 915597 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 926545 :Zwaarddijk!miekko@130.232.208.126 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 926859 :micahjohnston!~micahjohn@ell.io QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 927424 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 928288 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 928594 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 929293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 929676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 930231 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 936932 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 940206 :iamcal!u1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lrbtyupceqmgvciu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 951867 :twice11!~twice11@lenny32.physik.fu-berlin.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 952096 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 952345 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40744.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690671 952466 :MichaelBurge!~quassel@75-175-85-198.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 281881 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 282313 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 282463 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 282738 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 282814 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 282888 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 283038 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 283111 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 283187 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 283261 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 283410 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 283484 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690673 283631 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690674 678015 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690674 678399 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690674 678473 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1317690674 678697 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A6DA.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317690685 97942 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317690711 57904 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric > 1317690897 615319 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317690920 331152 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317690920 384453 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317690927 521764 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: < 1317690928 884317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: waht happened while < 1317690930 43289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gone < 1317690936 18747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you make a fan blade that's exactly pi inches? < 1317690947 538203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13 oerjan> fungot: a horrible split! < 1317690947 711105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:13 fungot> oerjan: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins! the structural damage is severe. the tale? < 1317690947 764097 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch. < 1317690947 816877 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! < 1317690968 313093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 03:12 oerjan> eek < 1317691004 203039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the universe has finite information in a finite area, or so I understand < 1317691010 81914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I would guess no < 1317691013 627301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i presume by make < 1317691016 14670 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my guess as well. < 1317691016 913208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean construct as a god < 1317691024 747339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I mean construct as a person with materials. < 1317691035 430695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then I'll say definitely not < 1317691038 265915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a stupid question < 1317691043 376802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is whether "exactly n inches" has meaning in our universe < 1317691047 879113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask the god one instead, since that's equivalent to "can our universe represent reals" < 1317691053 77421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good point :P < 1317691057 310115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not reals I guess < 1317691073 491377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the universe just supports algebraic numbers and throws pi in as an extra < 1317691081 844345 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..lol < 1317691099 294751 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think as far as physical quantities irrationals are perhaps impossible? < 1317691116 779923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. < 1317691136 72443 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1317691137 88215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends how you measure... if 1 is possible, is sqrt(2) possible because it's the diagonal of a square with sides 1? < 1317691139 113629 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: compass and straightedge dude < 1317691143 46561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming space is continuous < 1317691151 428443 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O, OK, I can look at SomeException. Can you convert a String to SomeException? < 1317691156 499736 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1317691184 967648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the standard IO fail puts it in an IOError < 1317691191 489664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to create your own wrapper since that doesn't make much sense < 1317691211 906282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one of those loop quantum gravity theories with spacetime as a kind of graph is true, then the possibilities might be discrete, but maybe not necessarily rational if you think about that square example < 1317691217 316966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite simple, "newtype FailException = FailException { failMessage :: String } deriving (Show, Typeable); instance Exception FailException" should do it < 1317691226 783444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fail = Fail . FailException < 1317691254 489776 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1317691321 730848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe the universe just supports algebraic numbers and throws pi in as an extra <-- hm, i think the field generated by that has decidable equality, none of that e+pi problem if you don't include both < 1317691324 611494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you'll need DeriveDataTypeable for that... but you should use it, hand-written Typeable instances are very much frowned upon < 1317691348 434862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: See, God just got tired of not having an Eq instance. < 1317691366 866613 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I use SomeException, can I combine multiple errors? < 1317691394 567640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: O, OK, I can look at SomeException. Can you convert a String to SomeException? <-- hm something tells me elliott said something on the other side of the split < 1317691428 553264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yep < 1317691430 622055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What do you mean? < 1317691444 997783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: zzo38: btw you probably want SomeException < 1317691445 133351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : not String < 1317691445 200498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : in Fail < 1317691445 253590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : that way, you can e.g. handle exceptions properly in the liftIO for BarrierT IO < 1317691458 968579 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently have an Alternative instance that <|> combines error messages if both sides are error. < 1317691528 679043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you cannot really do that in general, whatever character you pick might conflict with a valid character in a fail message anyway < 1317691547 948239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I think Fail _ <|> m should = m < 1317691553 413924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the standard interpretation of Alternative < 1317691559 192722 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked '\RS' < 1317691604 684684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because after all, (<|>) is a kind of error handling < 1317691621 685115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that it's basically a <|> b = a `catch` const b < 1317691624 725070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(metaphorically etc. etc. etc.) < 1317691684 542058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but you could always define an expression pair type that's a combination of two exceptions and a subtype of those... I have no idea how to do that, oerjan might :P < 1317691737 642594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1317691754 824065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't _think_ the expression system supports multiple "inheritance" < 1317691776 315874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably shouldn't :P < 1317691776 783798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*exception < 1317691860 411142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads that again
< 1317692110 516948 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that an exception type needs preparation in order to be subtypeable < 1317692149 883840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a subtype exception needs to be cast to it in order to be thrown < 1317692158 8652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1317692202 26941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would probably take even more preparation to permit two exceptions to have a common subtype < 1317692676 991570 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1317692941 783933 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317693633 50324 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-146-193.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317694016 350595 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317694137 724958 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-197-75.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1317694728 248740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1317694730 466154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance IsString ShowS where fromString = (++) < 1317694738 893289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, what of it < 1317694745 998356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ShowS is just DL Char :-P < 1317694749 164122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just thought of it :P < 1317694763 920616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the World -> (World, a) representation is used in compilers to avoid CSE interrupting with IO... doesn't just making (>>=) use pseq solve that? < 1317694769 249350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1317694789 966584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `pseq` f x `pseq` f x `pseq` IO () < 1317694791 618409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not < 1317694799 180689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that duplicate f x pseqqing is reducable < 1317694800 882218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reducible < 1317694805 113379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :still seems gross though < 1317694842 207867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was plain a then _seq_ would be permitted to do the IO < 1317694851 723375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you want that :P < 1317694859 378287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even pseq. < 1317694885 172154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um you would obviously wrap it in "data" < 1317694901 313967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data IO a = IO a; instance Monad IO where return = IO; IO a >>= f = a `pseq` f x < 1317694908 940473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but that would be _less_ efficient < 1317694909 41382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1317694910 246386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data IO a = IO a; instance Monad IO where return = IO; IO a >>= f = a `pseq` f a < 1317694918 582542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: umm, why? < 1317694925 164194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because data is boxed < 1317694933 432239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions are a kind of box... < 1317694947 1370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but RealWorld is optimized away < 1317694953 658978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, becoming () < 1317694957 426035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still a box involved < 1317694960 167909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even () < 1317694962 735997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but < 1317694963 567805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1317694966 633587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value inside is still lazy < 1317694970 826513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or seq would do IOjust like you said < 1317694984 85945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1317694992 572253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1317695002 363145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hm... maybe. < 1317695016 783536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have it completely stripped of boxing and laziness and still not do IO on sequencing < 1317695032 202377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions are a kind of boxing, eliminating their actual argument parts and half of their result does not change that < 1317695080 626498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, it's just which trick you use to make the compiler not run IO too early < 1317695118 926571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not so much too early as not enough in this case... < 1317695120 848277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : data IO a = IO a; instance Monad IO where return = IO; IO a >>= f = a `pseq` f x < 1317695122 335105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that < 1317695125 481429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x `pseq` f x `pseq` f x `pseq` IO () < 1317695126 895016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be reduced to < 1317695130 48748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `pseq` f x `pseq` IO () < 1317695135 785785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because CSE, etc. < 1317695179 59578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr some compiler just did World -> a, essentially < 1317695187 398920 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1317695212 888211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works but you need a "unique world" primitive < 1317695222 966721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has to be completely unique each time, CSE-wise < 1317695225 485791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just weird < 1317695235 167571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the World -> (World, a) model requires no compiler changes to work with CSE :P < 1317695243 774332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, in teh deep internals < 1317695256 61523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/teh/the/ < 1317695303 869014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit jhc uses m4 in its libraries < 1317695366 288850 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317695823 860426 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1317695865 141446 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317695928 432953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: man, jhc is so lame, it uses a modified version of ghc's parser < 1317695930 434386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lame??? < 1317695965 212096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...not that haskell's syntax is _simple_...) < 1317695991 170222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I like how Lexer.hs is over half as long as HsParser.ly < 1317696002 114751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mostly full of actual complicated logic ather than the parser < 1317696074 164621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1317696086 756802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ather < 1317696088 820193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good word < 1317696142 716297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :prithe, nuncle, whence comest thou ather? < 1317696327 157329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :))))))000000000000000 < 1317696399 458052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1317696400 594824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should start < 1317696402 217824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a lexer??? < 1317696408 840342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am really not sure where to start :badatprogramming: < 1317696431 570623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: emphathise mywith my pilght < 1317696820 38651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy no empasise im sad < 1317697102 248897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even oerjan can mephaithise < 1317697565 950939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :phtamiserable < 1317697592 152449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :spleing < 1317697617 837828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: emtphaethlaise with me < 1317697631 16679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i don't do drugs < 1317697639 526197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1317697645 469012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the drugge... of empathy..... < 1317697645 521827 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1317697680 504180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my projects have halted at the beginning of the lexing stage before < 1317697812 120325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kz98v/your_favorite_language_probably_sucks_at/c2oid71?context=1 < 1317697890 258301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais: a person that exists < 1317697905 932332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dun dun dun < 1317697907 586094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION replies
< 1317697962 309401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have you tried VHDL? Because of the built in libraries, it's only as low level as you want it to be? I like the idea of writing software as independent modules with parallel inputs regulated by a clock." < 1317697964 34745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1317698010 475493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor ais523, having elliott ruin his reddit reputation < 1317698023 337200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up, I have more karma than him < 1317698034 445662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh someone vote ais up, he has 127 comment karma < 1317698187 964946 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watched the first five episodes of Kaiji < 1317698224 796918 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sorry i was away not being here < 1317698228 917467 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: too away to < 1317698236 28625 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: empathinse < 1317698240 220041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean emtphaethlaise < 1317698244 547399 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1317698306 479764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: should i write.......lexer first... < 1317698307 715660 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would probably.....do things other than the parser....first < 1317698317 106759 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm including lexer in there < 1317698335 489341 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the parser < 1317698338 663971 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in things I wouldn't do first < 1317698375 191492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well i don't know if you can parse haskell while lexing it sanely < 1317698377 208208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan might know :P < 1317698379 463997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :layout and all < 1317698391 447401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dunno what else i could do without an ast, and writing an ast divorced from a parser sounds REALLY REALLY TEDIOUS < 1317698400 99999 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1317698436 264520 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gues you could < 1317698438 81937 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do parsing first < 1317698448 516568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't knwo what to do :( < 1317698462 889899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i hear ghc needs the parser to callback the lexer in order to do layout properly < 1317698464 903818 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could write an ast divorced from a parser or you could write a dummy parser < 1317698482 146951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the } insertion rule < 1317698486 455793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ast divorced from a parser sounds really tedious < 1317698491 43226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would a dummy parser even be < 1317698504 295171 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also try to write Haskell parsing program. But it is mostly only lexer, grouping by (){}[] and also splitting by ; and finding name locality (layout is not supported) < 1317698518 721576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: deriving Read < 1317698525 802559 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehehehe < 1317698529 299223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how would I even use that :P < 1317698538 816248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make it so that I can make a macro program for Haskell. So if I am not using layout, I don't need to make it to support layout < 1317698558 671976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: add deriving Read to all your data types, then you have your dummy parser < 1317698567 760761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ast data types < 1317698569 159891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but how is that useful in any way? :P < 1317698580 67360 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually, inside of () and [] they split by , and inside of {} they split by ; is how I do it) < 1317698589 496627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it allows you to test other things before doing the proper parser? < 1317698603 863193 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i dunno you'd make major simplifications like no layout, no infix, etc. when i said dummy i was actually thinking of something even simpler but then i realized that would not be as good of an idea < 1317698608 214925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why would I even need a Read instance, then? < 1317698613 989542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you, a lot of that you can simply do in ghci < 1317698621 534192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well maybe not < 1317698667 824899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, one thousand six hundred lines or so isn't so bad; I don't need any extensions or cruft, and I can maybe unify the lexer and parser < 1317698684 427947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well plus utilities like the lexing and parsing monad it uses but I don't consider them "part of the parser") < 1317698698 730436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# INLINE happyIn150 #-} < 1317698698 891121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyOut150 :: (HappyAbsSyn ) -> (HsName) < 1317698698 943601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyOut150 x = unsafeCoerce# x < 1317698698 943775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# INLINE happyOut150 #-} < 1317698698 943884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyIn151 :: (HsName) -> (HappyAbsSyn ) < 1317698699 230977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyIn151 x = unsafeCoerce# x < 1317698701 9814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# INLINE happyIn151 #-} < 1317698703 241097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyOut151 :: (HappyAbsSyn ) -> (HsName) < 1317698705 241835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyOut151 x = unsafeCoerce# x < 1317698707 247082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# INLINE happyOut151 #-} < 1317698709 249219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyIn152 :: (HsName) -> (HappyAbsSyn ) < 1317698711 250476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyIn152 x = unsafeCoerce# x < 1317698713 252986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# INLINE happyIn152 #-} < 1317698715 255954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyOut152 :: (HappyAbsSyn ) -> (HsName) < 1317698717 279252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyOut152 x = unsafeCoerce# x < 1317698719 262193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# INLINE happyOut152 #-} < 1317698721 265252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyIn153 :: (HsExp) -> (HappyAbsSyn ) < 1317698723 288870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyIn153 x = unsafeCoerce# x < 1317698724 53570 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good parser < 1317698725 208883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# INLINE happyIn153 #-} < 1317698727 93833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyOut153 :: (HappyAbsSyn ) -> (HsExp) < 1317698729 276964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happyOut153 x = unsafeCoerce# x < 1317698731 278722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy producesgood output < 1317698733 280156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/producesgood/produces good/ < 1317698735 282270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohm yogod < 1317698737 286845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/PNZP < 1317698739 290178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1317698741 345621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS THis???? < 1317698754 953118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is awful < 1317698755 630339 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes it really messy. The other way is to use Parsec < 1317698770 928310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think records split by , inside {} < 1317698786 475331 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: parsec? is that powerful enouygh? < 1317698820 626155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I think so. It can store state if you need it to, as well. < 1317698840 187084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not like how cavalier ghc and jhc are aout using language extensions < 1317698846 216031 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes it does. < 1317698852 312715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i doubt parsec can do layout. at least unmodified. < 1317698853 65711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other options: handwritten parser < 1317698855 891010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or without massive hacks < 1317698873 669239 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other other options: make your own TOTALLY RAD parser combinators, use them < 1317698895 184980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I guess when I write my arbitrary-CFG combinator library I will make it use that :P < 1317698902 662701 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You do have a state if you need it, though. You can use the state to keep track of layout. < 1317698940 961560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well theoretically you can do anything with state just by storing the actual parser to use inside the state... < 1317698950 344401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't mean it'll be "using" parsec in any meaningful sense < 1317699001 861862 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1317699122 623274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i do think using the state to keep the layout stack is reasonable < 1317699150 474658 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes that is what I meant. < 1317699159 382652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does that handle the fail-reparse case? < 1317699178 613655 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tokenprimex looks like a fun function < 1317699183 360817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it should be nominally possible, at least... < 1317699208 709863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo nominally < 1317699210 244383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: where..... < 1317699217 454796 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tokenPrimEx :: Stream s m t => (t -> String) -> (SourcePos -> t -> s -> SourcePos) -> Maybe (SourcePos -> t -> s -> u -> u) -> (t -> Maybe a) -> ParsecT s u m a < 1317699224 373919 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FunCtion < 1317699232 133147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautaetauetiaetuaieutieatuaeituaietuaietiaeutaieutaeituaeitaueitaetiful........... < 1317699614 202293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317699642 888696 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make barrier monad act similarly to the state monad by a function like this: flip $ perform (maybe (join (,)) (flip (,))) error (,) < 1317699687 676656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we even need any non-barrier monads...... < 1317699706 625696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = 2 + in "test" < 1317699707 307088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `in' < 1317699729 980141 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you do need some. Anyways, barrier monads are not the most efficient, they also lack some things others have. < 1317699754 941390 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = 2 + of "test" < 1317699755 937333 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `of' < 1317699760 798371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = 2 + 2 of "test" < 1317699761 688630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `of' < 1317699780 299559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The barrier monads are a bit similar to generator functions in JavaScript, actually. < 1317699781 421084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: im scared..... < 1317699792 933136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wat < 1317699799 525320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of ur acode..... < 1317699824 392134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm just finding out if ghc ever reveals when it's failing to use the } insertion rule < 1317699837 25892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does it ever fail? < 1317699859 332562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1317699929 566522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it sometimes gives that possibly incorrect indentation message... < 1317699949 594575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do "test" let x = 5 < 1317699950 371664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `let' < 1317699998 417597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the let had been one line lower, that _would_ have depended on indentation < 1317700030 458754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1317700039 366564 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But generator functions in JavaScript cannot have a return value. < 1317700188 619516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible using the state for the layout stack would just "work". < 1317700258 380085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: only one way to find out... < 1317700267 473278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well edwardk was working on a haskell layout "parser transformer" thing < 1317700270 121093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably using its state < 1317700416 534030 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.147.173.44 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1317701843 762894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think in order for it to just work, there needs to be at least one sanity condition on your parser structure < 1317701855 211411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1317701880 215707 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: watch garret lisi's presentation on TED < 1317701880 675357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have do (try a <|> b); virtualRightBrace somewhere < 1317701902 942895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a must _not_ be able to parse a prefix of something b parses < 1317701903 132641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: become a geologist < 1317701929 297312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also, would you even need try if a couldn't do that...? < 1317701944 656910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: possibly not. < 1317701966 322925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i mean, a whole parse by a must not be a prefix of something b parses < 1317701971 987430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1317702026 401131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: you upgraded your connection i guess if it can handle video now? grats < 1317702070 260818 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i watched it ages ago. < 1317702072 810752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say a stops parsing "argle bargle glop glyf" at glop, so a virtual } might be inserted befor glyf < 1317702087 693554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then b must not be able to parse beyond glop < 1317702093 628748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1317702106 257387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's that ~surfer dude~ who came up with that ToE that got debunked in about three days < 1317702107 632147 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317702107 745079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lie group thing < 1317702119 587427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok < 1317702133 839454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he talking about that or something else < 1317702137 456926 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then he continued working and it didn't < 1317702150 395198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not _very_ interested < 1317702161 73969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: dunno, wouldn't listen to anything he says anyway, unless it seemed exceptinoally interesting < 1317702190 858710 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he shows how he applies E8 sort of logic to elements, you could do the same with values or types in a a language. < 1317702244 15623 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this would be interesting because it's difficult to reasons about operations in E8 without the help of computers < 1317702268 58961 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND most languages model some structure in abstract algebra, a lot of such structures are embedded in E8 < 1317702378 187330 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :E8 is currently the most complex structure in algebra < 1317702409 333807 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is being looked at, at least < 1317702692 640889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sincerely doubt your second last statement, just on intuition < 1317702708 631783 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY FUCK I WAS RIGHT MY PROFESSOR WAS WRONG BUT I WAS STARING AT MY RESULT FROM MY RUBY SCRIPT AND NOT RECOGNIZING IT BECAUSE I GOT THE MATH THAT I DID EARLIER IN CLASS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT I WAS RIGHT WRONG < 1317702711 440336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with your last one < 1317702739 197481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo|web < 1317702757 682625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts Sgeo|web in shouting disease quarantine
< 1317702818 334901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand..... it was a holy fuck situation < 1317702822 842356 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't certain that my professor was wrong because I know sometimes things that look independent aren't actually independent and interact in weird and unintuitive ways, and I thought maybe this was one of those times < 1317702835 935786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like haven't been seen in 2000 years? < 1317702849 768365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is the joke that jesus... and holy...and..... < 1317702861 770898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because doesn't immaculate conception poke... a hole in this joke... < 1317702871 251859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1317702881 34844 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immaculate Conception is Mary being born without sin < 1317702894 273616 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free from original sin, I mean < 1317702897 764119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i knew that. < 1317702916 3959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but isn't jesus still the dad < 1317702918 459984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1317702919 973811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but isn't god still the dad < 1317702932 109159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I don't remember any fucking being involved < 1317702937 595288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least outside of the astral plane < 1317702943 159914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not so hot on my christian porn theology < 1317702948 181617 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As traditional Western Christian doctrine holds that Jesus == God, Jesus would still be the dad. < 1317702952 219861 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you doubt that E8 is one of the most complex structures in mathematics? < 1317702960 712510 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it's a joke that God had sex with Mary < 1317702963 411345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one of" = "" < 1317702972 446946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: i don't think the elements of the trinity are considered literally identical are tehy < 1317702977 574188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they wouldn't need names < 1317702981 533966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that "separate but the same" stuf < 1317702986 695730 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's utterly vague. < 1317702992 248382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1317702992 560310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: s/statement/line/ < 1317703002 281647 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well what are you refering to then < 1317703015 550563 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what you get when you try to make polytheism consistent with monotheism. < 1317703028 285589 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why not just copy-paste < 1317703031 121122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: i doubt it is the most complex, yes. < 1317703035 476998 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1317703073 242172 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that is incorrect. it is undoubtedly one of the most complex things out there. < 1317703121 746832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has a phd in irc discussion of comepmxepxpelixty............. < 1317703267 529807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.airshipentertainment.com/growfcomic.php?date=20080608 < 1317703277 884143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has a phd in convenient comics to reference in any situation < 1317703287 922304 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40744.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1317703316 9292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps oerjan < 1317703319 250450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has every phd.................... < 1317703328 512132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a thought < 1317703472 817536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you gonna be interesting soon, just gotta schedule things in, don't think i'll get a parser for qhc started today < 1317703481 97297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if i had a phd in not biting my lip, that would be something < 1317703552 659730 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A PhD in not biting your lip? < 1317703571 13949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. then i might be able to eat today without hurting myself. < 1317703582 219139 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1317703601 39076 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know there is no such PhD < 1317703630 507053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i know you have no joke detector. < 1317703657 916847 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grants oerjan a PHILOSOPHIAE DOCTOR in non-lip-biting
< 1317703667 884902 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to become accreditted. < 1317703683 46743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i dunno i think zzo38 discovered a fairly fatal flaw in your plan < 1317703697 30118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION walks to accept the phd, trips over something and breaks his leg
< 1317703721 171715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1317703744 158635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but seriously are you planning to like give the channel a lecture or something or can i go be busy for some hours < 1317703777 750361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not planning, no. < 1317703780 168815 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think "QHC" is taken. < 1317703781 345198 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you need a PhD in not breaking your leg < 1317703781 459519 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if elliott will softly and suddenly vanish away again.
< 1317703790 771778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but are you INTENDING < 1317703800 756604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Probably XHC for all X is taken. < 1317703817 108012 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*All* X? < 1317703819 301143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1317703823 318405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you only predicted that because I mentioned softly and suddenly vanishing away like seven lines up. < 1317703826 634165 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 龍HC? < 1317703829 894755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: So good guess! < 1317703853 109974 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott just leaves whenever I'm around nowadays. < 1317703936 48823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are secretly elliott, check. < 1317703961 429210 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 . < 1317704371 252776 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b9c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317705568 644496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each player must, at the beginning, loan any amount of money they choose from 1 million yen up to 10 million yen. The interest is 40% compounded every ten minutes. Each player gets three stars and twelve cards, four each of Rock, Paper, and Scissors. At the end of four hours, anyone with no cards and at least three stars wins. < 1317705579 319358 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have to pay back your loan. < 1317705628 924130 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a scoreboard that tells the time remaining, as well as how many of each card are still in the game in total and have not yet been played. < 1317705690 383089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disposing of cards is not permitted, but you can buy and sell them. You can also buy and sell stars. Normally each game is a bet of one star, but you can bet more than one star, and you can bet money on it too. < 1317705731 321838 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are permitted to pay back your loan as soon as you meet the winning conditions. < 1317705840 508650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also lose if you are unable to pay back your loan. < 1317705865 114318 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, do you wish to play this kind of game? < 1317705988 832402 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you attempt to flush your cards down the toilet, or leave them on the floor, you will be disqualified. < 1317706086 644089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no" < 1317706143 610152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0.6 ^ 24 < 1317706144 304986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4.738381338321614e-6 < 1317706171 422358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here "disqualified" must be some sort of an euphemism for "taken behind the shed and shot". < 1317706173 589531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this yearly interest < 1317706174 578089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get an extra 4 million yen for each star above 3 that you have at the end. < 1317706191 52968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1317706195 623601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it is 10 minute interest it's just insane < 1317706198 476841 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No. It is 40% for four hours. < 1317706204 482955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1317706388 19449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You get the extra money due to being able to sell the stars to the judges for that amount.) < 1317706473 798846 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also are not allowed to change the amount of the loan after it has started. < 1317706530 735962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do you understand? < 1317706592 175644 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have you ever used money that you can buy something with? Describe in detail where, how, why and name of all persons:" (A question from a form you can use to apply for a free "comrade ticket" to this event, if you have already purchased a ticket. It's a very long form.) < 1317706722 841474 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Comrade ticket? But you need to already have a ticket? I cannot possibly remember all the things I have ever purchased with money, or the names of the merchants. < 1317706818 293544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a comrade ticket anyways? < 1317706863 12550 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sentient, communist ticket. < 1317706863 441049 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a ticket you can give to a friend/enemy/hostage/etc. < 1317706905 107295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1317706990 455833 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i for one welcome our new ticket overlords > 1317707181 73672 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707196 682805 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707265 656884 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707295 699347 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707330 956016 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707391 458785 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707406 497363 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707426 517837 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707461 879207 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317707540 167625 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317707554 191811 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317707581 985558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hello. < 1317707651 829782 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbot: how are you? < 1317707695 542101 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317707779 876186 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1317707790 341393 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317707806 775483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo|web: think about it as the combination of two decks, one with only suits and one with only ranks < 1317707845 21843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :chosing A from the second deck and B from the first deck gives the exact same probabilities < 1317707853 479455 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I cannot answer in Unicode my IRC client receive but cannot send Unicode < 1317707855 360731 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1317707872 557859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are of course independent < 1317707910 97824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm oh. < 1317707951 533097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps its the pulling out which is the confusion? in which case, shuffle the deck, let A be the top card and B the card under that < 1317707955 762182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1317708013 427027 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to sleep soon < 1317708030 433731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, they are independent < 1317708102 574954 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I thought. < 1317708115 169811 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wasn't certain until I saw the results from my crappy script < 1317708133 960154 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably would have been a 1-liner in Haskel < 1317708133 960376 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell < 1317708143 92968 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of the monster I made it in Ruby < 1317708375 654862 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Monster in Ruby", the new summer hit movie. Coming soon to a theater near you. < 1317708392 743204 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to play monster character in Ruby? Do you in Emerald? < 1317708507 76527 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sleep time < 1317708923 598886 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Take Bible studies or something. Understanding a religion's holy book better than many believers would be an advantage in arguments... > 1317709100 712872 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317709120 736148 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317709128 853494 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317709204 713264 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317709255 314175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317709263 711118 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317709281 820199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'pythagoreanthird' 'minorsecond' < 1317709282 56954 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown unit 'minorsecond' < 1317709288 569652 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Even if the context is of being metaphorical? < 1317709297 721784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'pythagoreanthird' 'musical fifth' < 1317709306 777703 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown unit 'musical' < 1317709310 811644 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'pythagoreanthird' 'musicalfifth' < 1317709312 889575 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​* 0.84375 \./ 1.1851852 < 1317709332 628473 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'lightyear' 'beardsecond' < 1317709332 945769 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's quite literal. < 1317709334 403025 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​* 1.8921461e+24 \./ 5.2850042e-25 < 1317709345 433400 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It then goes on to note a scheme for substituting sacrifices. < 1317709357 445568 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: No, I mean metaphorical at a completely different level. < 1317709365 909149 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it is permissible to sacrifice a valued goat in favor of a first-born son. < 1317709371 589638 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, in lieu of. < 1317709378 836441 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, I intend to less argue against the religion itself, and more of the kinds of things people justify with their religion. < 1317709386 525716 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'cubicfeat/minute' 'cubiccentimeters/second' < 1317709387 530516 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. [quote dump] "Yep. Just like Jesus would do" < 1317709391 198081 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown unit 'cubicfeat' < 1317709394 208250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'cubicfeet/minute' 'cubiccentimeters/second' < 1317709396 356851 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown unit 'cubicfeet' < 1317709397 199648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1317709403 913228 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes my brain does strange things. < 1317709413 861260 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Well, for *that* it'd probably be easiest to just read the Gospels. < 1317709428 312329 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'feet^3/minute' 'cm^3/second' < 1317709572 968163 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​* 471.94744 \./ 0.00211888 < 1317709573 162616 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are at least not mind-numbingly long, terrible, ancient, and boring. Just *fairly* terrible, ancient, and boring. < 1317709573 162841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'feet^3/minute^2' 'cm^3/second^2' < 1317709573 162959 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1317709573 163112 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run units 'romanfoot' 'foot' < 1317709573 163221 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, accelerating expansion or something? < 1317709573 163339 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1317709573 163446 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you think while reading it, you get all sorts of fun questions. For instance, where was Jesus born? < 1317709573 163557 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some give the example of that God created the light before the sun, as being absurd and wrong, and possibly just metaphorical. I say, even if that is what is meant, that particular example is not a good one because the statement is correct; there can be light! < 1317709573 163666 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: excellerating wind output on a fan. < 1317709573 163785 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1317709573 163896 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of better examples of things that do in fact more nonsense. < 1317709573 163999 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :derivative. < 1317709573 164183 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well, the big bang was just as silly. < 1317709573 164294 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near as I can tell, Jesus was born in a superposition of towns. < 1317709573 164404 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's silly? < 1317709573 164844 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317709573 164921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copenhagen interpration. < 1317709573 165023 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Agreed. < 1317709573 165154 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: But "superposition of towns" is funny enough I'm willing to say it anyways. < 1317709573 183688 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​* 7.8657907 \./ 0.1271328 < 1317709573 183759 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​* 0.97112861 \./ 1.0297297 < 1317709573 183872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ether < 1317709573 356477 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :was silly < 1317709574 259444 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317709580 625815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tails fibs) in fibs < 1317709585 797708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1317709590 906671 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs < 1317709593 738342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946... < 1317709596 61895 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, photons were existing far before stars! < 1317709609 367482 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Yes that is what I meant. < 1317709620 433267 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Also, the big bang theory isn't silly, it's the clear result of direct observation. < 1317709622 33332 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm experiencing organ failure? < 1317709632 562525 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I know. =p < 1317709642 511555 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/WMAP_2010.png Here, have a photo. < 1317709647 912188 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was personifying the big bang, not attacking the theory! < 1317709651 43068 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: the sitcom or the actual theory? :P < 1317709656 804507 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The theory. < 1317709670 750844 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm consistent with capitalisation, generally. < 1317709681 442404 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'd say "The Big Bang Theory" in reference to the sticom. < 1317709690 574341 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sitcom, even. > 1317710156 137329 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317710159 625030 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317710160 224595 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1317710423 653650 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1317710429 697314 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317710429 778814 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317710506 396429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night > 1317710790 242738 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317710826 84906 JOIN :#esoteric > 1317710847 108051 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317710854 290873 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317710854 655474 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1317710865 49291 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need chess board? < 1317710879 297942 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1317710917 726 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I somehow make the spells of Icosahedral RPG to form a (mathematical category theory) category? < 1317710925 987518 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317710927 787495 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1317710943 361032 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no I was thinking software game. < 1317710971 732783 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you need cards anyways, even if the cards is done by computer? < 1317711016 637313 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan isn't here so i'm going to call it abcdef < 1317711048 715447 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what 88's funny game is? < 1317711113 430943 :Zetroid!~Zetro@host-95-199-153-98.mobileonline.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317711119 195738 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: cards could be incorporated somehow? < 1317711446 144213 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use two standard decks, a tarot deck, and a Fanucci deck, all mixed together. And Washizu mahjong tiles. Some of the cards have a magic spell on them, and some of them are torn. < 1317712454 232365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what software game? < 1317712482 396686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think I'm experiencing organ failure? <-- I read this as the musical instrument first. < 1317712776 976246 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 PART :#esoteric < 1317713141 71961 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy Trac is fancy; it noticed the attachment starts with a unified-diff header, and colors it with a pretty diff-viewer. < 1317713315 233091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you combine them to create spells. < 1317713320 657836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to 3 perhaps. < 1317713410 965338 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317713455 85933 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :m is pretty close to z, I guess < 1317713479 794397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1317713493 37810 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An 'ad hobbitem' fallacy is when you try to undermine someone's credibility by referring to how hairy his/her feets are. < 1317713516 5742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: really? < 1317713522 937968 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I just made it up. < 1317713540 39655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317713546 52874 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it could be! < 1317713551 713033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1317713581 297857 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The search seems to mostly find just something that looks like a Latin translation of LOTR. < 1317713585 144787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in an alternative universe it is a widely accepted word. < 1317713587 223405 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bilbo undecigesimos primos annos, CXI, actus erit, numerum insuetiore et aetatem respectabilem ad Hobbitem --" < 1317713597 171848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: XD < 1317713665 465902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does it say that Bilbo has hairy feet? < 1317713786 577183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why does English use the term eigen in eigenvalues rather than calling it something like "selfvalues" < 1317713891 154213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ownvalues, that works too < 1317714086 910921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Finnish term is translated; "ominaisarvot". < 1317714150 739399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Swedish term is translated too: egenvärden < 1317714160 190294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note the dropped i) < 1317714306 604404 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do have a term though: "characteristic value". < 1317714384 385389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1317714385 315711 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the english imported the concept from a german mathematician, presumably at some time when german was a primary academic language (which would be why they kept the german instead of adopting a new english word) < 1317714400 492129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, makes sense < 1317714425 644027 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317714729 962435 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317714822 264163 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many lines of code is GHC? < 1317714890 626301 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 100,000 in fact. < 1317714911 757432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...that's a lot of lines for a Haskell program) < 1317715010 907339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say Haskell's main compiler is Pretty Fucking Excellent(tm) < 1317715165 353232 :MichaelBurge!~quassel@75-175-85-198.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317715204 231366 :MichaelBurge!~quassel@75-175-85-198.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317715352 595381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ghc is written in haskell right? Apart from low level parts of the RTS. < 1317715401 537191 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1317715415 387803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was the first haskell compiler? < 1317715428 441201 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or interpreter I guess < 1317715431 126251 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :miranda < 1317715433 870362 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1317715436 4674 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1317715453 13884 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're asking what was first used to compile haskell < 1317715514 453178 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't miranda a language? that would be like answering "what's a popular c compiler" with "c" < 1317715538 455533 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cheater talking? I have him on ignore. And yes miranda is a language < 1317715569 171781 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should too < 1317715598 590951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like ignoring people because it weirds conversation, but rarely I do it anyway < 1317715622 600225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it weirds conversations definitely < 1317715793 971647 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: please ignore me if it'll spare me stupid comments like yours just now about ignoring me to facilitate someone's hatred < 1317715817 785880 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1317715825 270590 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to say that the first implementation of the Haskell 98 standard is GHC. < 1317715825 874794 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about facilitating someone's hatred < 1317715832 50375 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because I don't want to listen to you < 1317715839 227279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: of haskell, not haskell 98 < 1317715849 783788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I need to leave, university < 1317715862 22671 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh, moving target fallacy < 1317715867 676216 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: definitely ignore me then < 1317715873 90056 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure thing < 1317715889 810369 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I hate you. < 1317715893 953863 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what < 1317715897 847932 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( :( :( < 1317715900 650086 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1317715910 295483 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you ignoring cheater too? < 1317715924 822994 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I have no reason to really. < 1317715926 162198 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no CakeProphet is too cool to ignore people < 1317715964 476344 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: yes this is something I would generally agree with < 1317715977 514925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might ignore derrick or itidus one of these days. < 1317715988 579189 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know who they are < 1317715999 760125 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i see itidus talking but i've never had a conversation with him < 1317716007 148395 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the few people I don't like reading. < 1317716035 248308 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree w/r/t derrik but itidus is amazing < 1317716072 185414 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote .*?I agree < 1317716077 319536 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :682) i agree with elliott < 1317716100 566479 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy would agree to everything. < 1317716104 970033 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's like that. < 1317716134 125407 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now he's agreeing with you and disagreeing with you at the same time, trying to maximize agreement rate < 1317716147 472763 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1317716183 643624 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yeah I don't do stupid personal shit. < 1317716187 481067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tks < 1317716200 770789 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric shouldn't work that way. < 1317716246 313176 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :same reason i told monqy to put me on ignore < 1317716251 790634 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't need that really < 1317717369 390202 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1317718583 23981 :Zetroid!~Zetro@host-95-199-153-98.mobileonline.telia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317719813 860239 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317720901 880809 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317723301 482173 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8AD98.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317723559 400300 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-195.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317723560 880134 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-220-209.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317723590 80444 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317723597 813558 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 QUIT :Changing host < 1317723597 997071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317723706 481877 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1317725569 810296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317725629 405691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317726963 160131 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1317728173 833235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317732184 288526 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317732188 8528 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317732597 878839 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi TOPIC #esoteric :computed jumps... the topic. | Esolang event @ Hel/Finland on 3.10.2011: https://wiki.helsinki.fi/display/lambda/esoteeriset+ohjelmointikielet | god bless haskell america | 12345678!&^ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1317732614 897104 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi TOPIC #esoteric :computed jumps... the topic. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1317732651 471985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa, did anyone show up? < 1317732706 575579 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :) < 1317732717 99022 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 20 people at the same time, and 30 people total < 1317732733 663452 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took the effort to advertise the event quite broadly < 1317732754 91435 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa, that's a lot of people. < 1317732759 714568 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, definitely < 1317732769 535406 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite proud < 1317732780 941960 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I'm not so proud about is that I wasn't too well prepared < 1317732801 237018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There aren't even that many regulars in the channel. < 1317732802 200380 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the subject is so broad anyway, you couldn't give very detailed treatment of anything < 1317732820 79348 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should advertise the channel for the participants of the event < 1317732827 60493 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have their email addresses, anyway. < 1317732862 545975 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and BTW, the material is here: http://members.sange.fi/~atehwa/slides/esoteric < 1317733097 503701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1317733391 107836 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317733802 650125 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317733840 872215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just a new syntax for Brainfuck," < 1317733852 212958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa, did you cite me as world expert on hating BF derivatives. < 1317733905 399868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ook! doesn't count, BF derivatives were interesting back then < 1317733923 591187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the others are hateworthy unless they use the BF structure to demonstrate some language feature that's interesting on its own < 1317733924 182529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have given Ook! pardon already. < 1317733934 826586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like BF Joust or PaintFuck < 1317734005 337490 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[Unlambda] does not have predefined data types, other than the program source" < 1317734023 503943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, can the .cs be considered a data type? < 1317734617 30349 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I did inform people there about some registrants' dislike towards Brainfuck < 1317734640 749705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, everyone loves BF. < 1317734649 241817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the derivatives we detest. < 1317734787 218303 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1317734834 839465 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :most "designers" of BF derivatives are BF fans < 1317734856 394242 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they usually dislike other derivatives, too :) < 1317734880 168378 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand why we should favour bf over its derivatives, though < 1317734916 574772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, we shouldn't, it's just that most of the derivatives are much worse than the original < 1317734920 496411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a tendency to miss the point < 1317734921 353363 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was a clear standard that gave life to 15 year old programs, I could live with that < 1317734935 730820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best derivatives find a point of their own to hit < 1317734947 97818 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, then we should probably dislike "bad" bf derivatives, whatever that means for anyone. < 1317734964 858922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: indeed, it's just that around 90% of them are awful < 1317734977 95620 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like PHP software < 1317735009 947443 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there's no reason why your particular piece of software couldn't be great even if it was written in PHP, it just happens that 90% of stuff written in PHP is crap" < 1317735063 972183 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317735069 246907 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: .cs? < 1317735082 639563 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :printing "functions"? < 1317735086 485133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1317735088 799704 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317735125 569302 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... the ability to have those functions in program source extends the data model, of course < 1317735157 355928 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IMO they're farther from data types than SKI expressions, because there's no way to inspect them < 1317735211 889826 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SKI expressions can be used to build general-purpose data types ("first-class"), whereas printing functions can't < 1317735254 389899 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a matter of terminology, really. < 1317736663 785880 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317736678 749192 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1317736708 55607 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317737272 36186 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1317737365 272832 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-171.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317737390 579226 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-226-195.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317738535 66997 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317738536 252250 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317738633 728625 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1317739015 228153 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ook! is getting a pardon? < 1317739136 538277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Ook! gets a pardon < 1317739145 910915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be awful if invented for the day, but at the time, it was actually interesting < 1317739151 5155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if invented today < 1317739263 14183 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317739664 990532 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love all the people who put their names on their crappy BF derivatives. < 1317739736 704908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I suppose if I invent a really really bad BF deriv, elliottfuck might be a good name for it < 1317739747 990403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because elliott makes bad BF derivs < 1317739754 744466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for the joke of trying to shift the blame < 1317739807 759936 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What made Ook! interesting even at the time? < 1317739853 677050 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317739924 651414 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nothing, it was just a silly joke. < 1317739934 946379 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kind that stops being funny the second time it's made. < 1317740036 881038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now been made at least 6 times. < 1317740172 241309 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317740390 98465 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317740507 583465 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317740537 719382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it was the first language which really had a deliberately useless syntax < 1317740553 64552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there had been terse syntaxes before, but not stupid ones < 1317740597 527145 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't INTERCAL kind of fit that bill? :-P < 1317740612 201180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1317740636 497378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a parody syntax than a deliberately useless one, more like LOLCODE than Ook! in that respect < 1317740666 563193 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Ook! was just BF with the commands replaced by variations of Ook! So, what syntax? < 1317740668 566138 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's a big difference there < 1317740674 895102 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I kind of see your point < 1317740759 668349 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the commands were made to look similar. < 1317740873 79862 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42b9c.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317742940 220498 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6f29.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317742940 451822 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about < 1317742944 969245 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. whitespace < 1317742949 682838 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impractical < 1317742970 170234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also quite recent, IIRC < 1317742984 142455 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think less recent than ook, or is it? < 1317743073 633215 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : We need a langugae with test-based features < 1317743073 843255 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : That is, you have to pass a test in order to use the feature < 1317743414 353244 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my language idea of needing to crack a hash to output was going to be a BF derivative because I couldn't imagine a good other structure to use < 1317743423 436874 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember details though < 1317743432 996972 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get around to actually making that language < 1317744461 362119 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317744581 640148 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: "esthetic" is an abominable spelling imho. :( it's the common american spelling < 1317744583 449623 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1317744586 847263 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it was 100 years ago. < 1317744598 907913 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hooray for responding to multi-day-old logs :P ) < 1317744678 220178 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I never had a class in "archeology" either ... < 1317744928 882902 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you get lab coats in your department? < 1317745139 464407 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite cold enough yet. I'm holding off until people will want to wear them. < 1317745649 740705 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317746195 758203 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317746198 396998 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1317746256 94911 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip68-6-84-209.sb.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317746423 709831 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/COMEFROM#Examples "An actual example in INTERCAL would be too difficult to read[citation needed]." < 1317746435 531833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317746438 984933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am aware of the line < 1317746455 890056 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was too, but not the "[citation needed]" < 1317747807 84744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317748825 446616 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317749182 95568 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Articles in category "Brainfuck derivatives" < 1317749182 266564 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 95 articles in this category. < 1317749185 718411 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Articles in category "Brainfuck equivalents" < 1317749185 883260 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 13 articles in this category. < 1317749190 848686 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeping < 1317749358 333593 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame Sgeo|web. < 1317750144 189763 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1317750688 789022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317750756 610999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: did he make many of them? < 1317750798 516110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: there are actually a few interesting Brainfuck derivatives though < 1317750806 242646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolfuck iirc < 1317750832 721341 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in their place i will substitute the multitude of awful non-brainfuck-derivatives < 1317751002 272175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317751057 515955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: have i mentioned i'm going to replace hackego's units :P < 1317751103 394801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:36:32: "Have you ever used money that you can buy something with? Describe in detail where, how, why and name of all persons:" (A question from a form you can use to apply for a free "comrade ticket" to this event, if you have already purchased a ticket. It's a very long form.) < 1317751105 712308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1317751107 509496 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317751157 592008 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1317751162 120928 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1317751171 375997 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an awful form question < 1317751176 856044 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how's the idle thinking going? < 1317751177 248191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its the best < 1317751198 534784 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6f29.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1317751212 87293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi, please delete [[Category:Shameful]], it's an unauthorised category creation < 1317751218 509217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: at the percolation stage :P < 1317751228 37344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: someone created the category page? < 1317751236 773702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as their first (IP) contrib < 1317751251 428812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Grouchymaverick < 1317751254 64759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy sure is a grouchy maverick < 1317751270 770677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reason for deletion: unapproved category; missing an in-joke < 1317751304 922363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, Aptennap has been waiting for a reply for days now < 1317751309 376814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Aptennap < 1317751323 641561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time for a which-usdr-talk-page-to-reply-on flamewar?) < 1317751326 275775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/usdr/user/ < 1317751369 336166 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317751394 586666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I replied on his < 1317751397 57703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as he replied on his not mine < 1317751406 449054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reply is definitely in the right place; his may not be, but I don't really care < 1317751419 840249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I was just wondering which side of THE DEBATE You were on :P < 1317751448 816182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I'm all for splitting conversations, but don't care strongly enough about it to flamewar < 1317751453 762328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how Timwi's CSS-only skin is getting on < 1317751514 226773 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1317751534 375845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:09:53: monqy: please ignore me if it'll spare me stupid comments like yours just now about ignoring me to facilitate someone's hatred < 1317751534 703123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignoring someone else doesn't prevent them from seeing your comments, so that wouldn't have the effect you desire < 1317751544 426280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:10:25: I want to say that the first implementation of the Haskell 98 standard is GHC. < 1317751544 580898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about that < 1317751548 200574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 98 maybe < 1317751594 956745 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why are you even replying to things i say? < 1317751635 318561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was clarifying the function of ignores for people in the channel. There are some forty people here that this channel is a conversation with all of. < 1317751661 158446 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was obviously yet another quip addressed at me < 1317751669 635604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Wikipedia uses google (verb) in articles < 1317751700 968476 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only did you show a lack of understanding of what i spoke about but displayed mild stupidity by assuming i don't know how the ignore function works < 1317751712 636105 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that ever interesting for anyone? < 1317751737 2973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, not only that but it has an /article/ on google (verb) < 1317751763 688443 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probab ly just not worth the hassle ot edit out when people use it. < 1317751771 286959 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317751786 414242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: it's in the first few paragraphs of [[New York City]], linked to the article on the verb < 1317751792 389961 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It also asks for the length of your submarine in millimetres, as well as "Continue the following sentence: I request to be sent to Siberia for 13 years because:", and also "Are you aware that you will be sentenced to prison camp if you don't answer here 'yes'" in which "yes" does not pass form validation. < 1317751796 468274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it'd be gone if it wasn't approved of < 1317751813 144212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So is there any actual possibility of getting a ticket? :p < 1317751913 934335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: btw, I don't do personal quips, but I would appreciate it if you stopped making them in here about me, it's quite hypocritical to accuse me of doing it while still doing it yourself < 1317751923 887312 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahah < 1317751927 182633 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if. < 1317751948 474181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't appreciate them in the slightest and I'm sure nobody else does either < 1317751954 387684 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe so, but the evaluation criteria are... obscure. < 1317751957 648867 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this thing called self-awareness < 1317751967 728807 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you are not displaying < 1317751978 371841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you're not going to stop, right? < 1317751995 690835 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they also ask for a hand-drawn picture of your passport, and "Best picture gets special prize!" < 1317752001 858082 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you're out on a limb here with your monologue < 1317752014 344991 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1317752020 865528 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1317752021 442958 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1317752029 567509 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS GETTING TEDIOUS < 1317752036 40169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a monologue, it's a simple request for you to stop doing the same shit you accuse me of, but clearly you are not interested in cooperating civilly < 1317752052 215355 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm sort of waiting til elliott figures out no one is interested in his daily attacks at me < 1317752069 988592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: It's even more tedious when you're on the receiving end, but I'll just take it up where everyone else isn't bothered by it. < 1317752093 379141 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S DOUBLE ENDED < 1317752102 144598 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AS IN, BOTH ENDS RECIEVE < 1317752105 931758 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S ANNOYING < 1317752108 915827 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1317752109 650427 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO LISTEN TO < 1317752114 194764 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric drama < 1317752119 779866 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish elliott wouldn't keep on creating drama every day < 1317752142 266670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Which is why I'm taking it up in private, so turn your caps lock off and acknowledge you've been here for about three months out of over a year. < 1317752149 112334 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice this started with elliott posting a quote from me, making up some bullshit to make himself look smart and to make me look stupid, and winding it up from there < 1317752149 259090 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip68-6-84-209.sb.sd.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1317752153 427842 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1317752158 821196 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my caps lock was never on < 1317752163 363670 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1317752217 486873 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: btw, do you listen to any music in particular? i wanted to ask you earlier < 1317752219 455266 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, all i noticed was Elliot asking some not-that important thing of you, you takign it personally, and then an endless cycle of NO YOU'RE THE ONE ATTACKING ME. < 1317752224 176095 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, Muse < 1317752231 459113 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317752240 105552 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally Red Hot Chilli Peppers and Breaking Benjamin < 1317752247 395844 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: not really. < 1317752266 748759 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: interesting, i never heard of the third one < 1317752280 371504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're a not-very-big group < 1317752289 602426 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite good < 1317752295 405938 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion at least < 1317752297 437451 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did they break him in the end < 1317752298 138801 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1317752353 406639 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're from the far-off land of Pennsylvania < 1317752460 554947 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as the lead singer, aptly named Benjamin, has numerous phobias, including flying, they will never perform anywhere I can really see them < 1317752547 751707 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1317752567 527412 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if that's what the band's name is about < 1317752571 692524 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :his phobias < 1317752574 736777 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and breaking them < 1317752584 278726 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that would be their third album < 1317752585 915464 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phobia < 1317752591 541326 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The band name is about a mic < 1317752599 850108 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317752612 100549 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so elliott i don't see any "private chat", didn't you want to "work it out"? or are you just bothering ais or oerjan again with your troll attempts < 1317752613 513606 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip68-6-84-209.sb.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317752629 562783 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because really riling me up and then going to tell is just laughable < 1317752663 418248 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: a mic? < 1317752664 982046 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what mic? < 1317752666 725205 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1317752682 892741 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows microphones sometimes have very crazy stories
< 1317752686 776329 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One at a club they were performing at under a different name < 1317752710 258089 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :one recording engineer who made a classic recording of some sort, multiple platinum, recovered a pair of microphones after decades < 1317752717 366796 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had to sell em at some point < 1317752720 605717 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now got them back < 1317752728 249105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so elliott i don't see any "private chat", didn't you want to "work it out"? or are you just bothering ais or oerjan again with your troll attempts <--- what was that line for? it seems to be riling elliott for no good reason < 1317752787 361780 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that line was for telling him that it is not socially acceptable to annoy people, and also not acceptable to annoy them as part of a scheme in which you use this in a premeditated show of some sort that is supposed to show those people in a bad light. < 1317752814 138133 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apparently he is unaware of those facts, at least according to what i see, OR is aware of them but thinks no one will say a thing and he will get away with it < 1317752816 350625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I just don't see how you can get annoyed by elliott while he's not posting < 1317752830 72067 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i got annoyed by him while he was posting < 1317752858 871056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, stop stirring shit, it'll explode or something. < 1317752861 498719 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i am not *being* annoyed, i just *am* annoyed, but that line was not out of annoyance itself, it was to prevent his silly scheme from succeeding. < 1317752883 959237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: do you really think that elliott spends all his time on convoluted schemes to annoy you? < 1317752884 617870 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip68-6-84-209.sb.sd.cox.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317752890 888114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would there be any point in doing so, among other things? < 1317752892 667025 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at what i just described, his scheme at least partly depends on no one saying anything in view of his obvious attempts at denigration < 1317752898 317459 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, i do. < 1317752916 149217 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if i didn't, i wouldn't be saying this. < 1317752929 26028 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip68-6-84-209.sb.sd.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317752941 119903 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when this whole thing started i wouldn't have ever had a thought like this, but this is now obvious < 1317752949 790125 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways this is not a convoluted scheme < 1317752952 746558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: isn't the way you're trying to defend just likely to rile him into annoying you back? < 1317752956 407040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mutual recrimination cycle < 1317752957 425903 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids in kindergarten know how to do this < 1317752961 832759 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoy someone and go tell < 1317752975 198207 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the *explanation* is convoluted, but not the modus operandi. < 1317752986 154621 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, i am not trying to get him to annoy me again < 1317753004 286786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what /are/ you doing, then? < 1317753017 465144 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am trying to show him that his schemes are childish and make no sense, because i'm not stupid enough to be unable to notice what he's doing and call him out on that < 1317753049 795369 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in turn means that i can, at least to some extent, defend myself from his attempted manipulations of people here < 1317753069 954444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: well, if you /didn't/ call him out, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place, right? < 1317753073 434729 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the first time he's trying this, not the second, and not the tenth < 1317753076 702254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your "defence" is the actual argument < 1317753095 418784 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it is not. < 1317753121 651411 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the argument started with elliott making annoying comments on quotes of things i have said hours ago < 1317753147 468554 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was the start of this behavioral scheme which continued when he said in the channel that he is "taking this private" < 1317753161 326767 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i have thought he'd try to be constructive and msg me < 1317753170 97075 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: what manipulations? Honestly, nobody's manipulating me. I have my own opinions. Okay? < 1317753181 860250 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: weren't you going to ignore me? < 1317753191 993428 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, but then this looked interesting so I unignored you < 1317753198 509499 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ignore me again < 1317753201 930875 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317753210 164253 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way i'm talking with ais, not with you. < 1317753223 120903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: err, it's an IRC channel? < 1317753237 287459 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: so are you going to disregard what I said and only believe your own theories about all of us? < 1317753243 111228 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and if i am in a physical room i can too talk to just select people. < 1317753260 987116 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or if you are in a dining room with 1000 students are you having a conversation with everyone? < 1317753263 32259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: that's what /query is for, right? < 1317753275 293423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever been in a dining room with 1000 students before, so I wouldn't know < 1317753275 477020 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one way to do it < 1317753309 918871 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider any other large number < 1317753317 601150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally, when I'm in a room with, say, ten people < 1317753328 559209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are mini-conversations, but they're fluid < 1317753330 689964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will hear an interesting bit of a conversation they aren't in, and join in < 1317753343 451094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC works a lot like that except that people tend to be in lots of conversations simultaneously, including in the same channel < 1317753366 421189 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyways, after he didn't msg me, i realized he's "taking it private" by going to complain to someone, like a brat who feels he'll get me into trouble. which he's done before, oerjan told me elliott keeps on complaining about me to him in private, and he was very surprised when i told him (oerjan) that elliott never came to *me* with any issues, that he just keeps insulting me in public instead. < 1317753390 916183 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a classical social strategy and, again, is mostly used by kids. < 1317753393 202429 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like Haskell's zipWith < 1317753395 786414 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point they grow up. < 1317753413 242123 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Excess Flood < 1317753481 275981 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317753494 20905 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's surprising is: why didn't you ask elliott what his original annoying comment was for? you asked me what i made my comment for, why didn't you apply the same behaviour to elliott? is he exempt of responsibility? < 1317753524 286954 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I did, he was annoyed at things you'd said in the logs < 1317753535 849045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the argument continues indefinitely < 1317753551 166223 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? < 1317753560 873285 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am annoyed at things he said earlier too < 1317753566 804536 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if he's talking i don't call him out < 1317753574 257663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you keep being annoyed at things the other said earlier indefinitely < 1317753574 820382 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1317753577 906968 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only times i talk to him at all are if he starts talking to me < 1317753578 706965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the argument's never going to finish < 1317753580 673878 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no < 1317753582 447241 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1317753588 617896 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious < 1317753590 733870 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he initiated this < 1317753601 640040 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadn't spoken to him for about 24 hours at that time < 1317753607 473235 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe more, maybe less < 1317753607 620043 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me when you've shut up about this. I'll be in #esoteric-minecraft, likely < 1317753610 760894 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1317753611 826088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he reads logs < 1317753611 972871 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a substantial time < 1317753623 881459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's going to reply when he reads the comment, not when it happens < 1317753627 833695 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? the thing i said wasn't directed at him or about him < 1317753638 960041 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :when he doesn't talk about me i let him alone too < 1317753680 865413 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't change anything when he reads it, it wasn't directed at him or about him, there's nothing related to him in it, if he comments on it then he is initiating contact between me and him again < 1317753683 22389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"I'm with Ngevd" < 1317753685 406540 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unwanted < 1317753695 93830 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when he makes it as unpleasant as he did < 1317753712 257253 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even if it's "pleasant" it's still unwanted because i just don't want to talk to him < 1317753736 974106 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because i see him as an unfriendly person < 1317753759 239683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I think that's the point of friction; you want to be in the same channels as elliott, so as to talk about the same subjects, /but/ don't want him to be involved in conversations you're involved in < 1317753776 697723 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that is not the point of friction < 1317753791 384389 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of friction here is that he took something i said, and made a stupid, childish remark < 1317753794 753910 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317753798 196370 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that he keeps on doing that < 1317753801 724809 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the point of friction < 1317753813 564624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: I'm trying to talk about the whole situation between you and elliott that has been running for weeks, if not months < 1317753820 796814 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1317753821 507560 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :years < 1317753823 441667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not whatever the latest thing that resparked off the argument is < 1317753831 445181 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not weeks, not months, years < 1317753831 688777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't been around for that many years < 1317753853 687657 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :check logs < 1317753855 90110 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways < 1317753863 971936 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-217-171.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1317753866 99916 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest thing that resparked the argument was that elliott took a quote of me and made a stupid, deprecating comment < 1317753877 433822 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing BEFORE THAT, which was yesterday, was him doing exactly the same thing < 1317753881 587874 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc etc < 1317753881 785695 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317753889 553194 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i seriously don't talk to him or about him at all < 1317753897 431499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you do, you are right now < 1317753906 924500 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i was just going to add that: < 1317753910 908447 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNLESS he initiates it < 1317753913 687062 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which he has just now < 1317753925 112761 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really simple < 1317753930 788705 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm passive in this < 1317753932 634798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, each time he does it's a response to you coming up with an argument like this < 1317753935 940923 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't initiate anything < 1317753941 368289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each time you do, it's a response to him getting annoyed at your arguments < 1317753944 279200 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this is a fallacy < 1317753945 809625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see the problem here? < 1317753946 835896 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at what he did < 1317753948 983670 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1317753950 432650 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are lying < 1317753959 18742 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 08:09:53: monqy: please ignore me if it'll spare me stupid comments like yours just now about ignoring me to facilitate someone's hatred < 1317753965 759671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hasn't spoken in here for over half an hour < 1317753968 628849 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW is that a response to something i said to him or about him?? < 1317753976 486760 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317753980 863352 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me < 1317753993 441058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: he interpreted it as being about him because there was no other reference < 1317753995 7740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was it about? < 1317754000 984008 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1317754026 322407 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was about monqy and vorpal. it was 100% clear from context. < 1317754041 938420 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the log where i was talking with monqy at that point and you'll see for yourself. < 1317754045 646469 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to do with elliott. < 1317754047 720325 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he may have interpreted it as being about him because of the "facilitating someone else's hatred" bit. was I actually facilitating Vorpal's hatred? < 1317754081 102025 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, because vorpal said he had me on ignore (whether he actually does or not, he's probably just showing off) and told you to ignore me too. < 1317754102 207529 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you said you just might. < 1317754113 852781 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he never told me to ignore you < 1317754114 424124 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i said that if you want to facilitate vorpal you can feel free. < 1317754134 915265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: hmm... what might help, is when you make comments, don't give elliott a chance to misinterpret them as being about him < 1317754139 439598 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has implied it to which you have reacted with an "i might" < 1317754142 988258 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:05:38: oh cheater talking? I have him on ignore. And yes miranda is a language < 1317754145 955667 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:06:09: perhaps I should too < 1317754148 371086 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:06:38: I don't like ignoring people because it weirds conversation, but rarely I do it anyway < 1317754151 361240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:07:02: yeah it weirds conversations definitely < 1317754153 999458 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what happened < 1317754159 150401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said nothing about "you should do this too" < 1317754172 233079 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it was implied. < 1317754179 361387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are jumping to conclusions < 1317754181 285988 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously people want to do what others in the group do < 1317754185 451116 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317754187 248636 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they.. monkey themselves < 1317754191 551172 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for lack of better terms < 1317754191 697910 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohoho < 1317754199 648823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn powercuts. < 1317754201 120756 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you said that you might too < 1317754204 603845 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317754205 178294 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, here's that. < 1317754213 237760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oops no ups? < 1317754213 713579 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the rule is: i never talk about elliott unless i am explicit about it. < 1317754215 862920 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, as I indicated later, it is because I did not want to listen to you. that is the reason for ignoring, no? < 1317754234 651895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not much good if the router and modem are connected to the mains. < 1317754235 843926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: hmm, shall we put that in the topic so that there can be no misunderstanding? < 1317754242 613021 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also FFS you know I have a laptop. < 1317754250 707033 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if he thinks i might be talking about him, but i hadn't mentioned his name as identifying him as the object of the conversation, then he is not. < 1317754257 499505 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, better put it in his head < 1317754274 749655 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the topic isn't a place for fixing elliott's unwanted behaviour < 1317754289 571512 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PART #esoteric :"sick of this" < 1317754294 722109 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ais523: if he thinks i might be talking about him, but i hadn't mentioned his name as identifying him as the object of the conversation, then he is *wrong*." < 1317754299 231398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy < 1317754300 980599 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, corrected. < 1317754331 140396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's more important that the rest of the channel thinks that, so he can't decide you're trying to incite him or something < 1317754337 563394 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so to reiterate: i never, ever, initiate contact to elliott in here, and almost never anywhere else. < 1317754357 243027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ups on them too? < 1317754365 214222 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is what i just said something that you can agree on? < 1317754372 92120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on them only since you have a laptop < 1317754373 528030 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART :#esoteric < 1317754416 463062 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317754532 938867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: do you agree to not make any comments that could even be misinterpreted as being about elliott? otherwise, you might get people annoyed at him even if you don't mean to < 1317754547 208147 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i cannot control elliott's interpretations < 1317754556 205436 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i refuse to be terrorized by what elliott might think < 1317754562 769408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say elliott's interpretations, I'm talking about other members of the channel < 1317754572 776980 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same goes for other people < 1317754590 615452 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot control X's interpretations < 1317754597 441829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you can < 1317754601 507167 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i refuse to be terrorized by what X might think < 1317754603 533911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite easy to say something in a way that can't be misinterpreted < 1317754613 445937 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like asking me to walk backwards on fridays < 1317754621 787771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is worried that you'll be making statements that aren't about him in such a way as to manipulate people into thinking they're about him < 1317754639 224394 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let me make it 100% clear < 1317754644 896300 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care at all about elliott < 1317754648 585768 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoooo. kernel.org's up. < 1317754672 401636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: then just stop responding to him, altogether < 1317754692 797245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't even try to defend yourself, then the channel will be able to make up its own minds < 1317754694 385540 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no because then he gets to play his games and get me into trouble < 1317754700 862533 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are always the first person to respond to his complaints about you. < 1317754717 389609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: he can't get you into trouble if you don't respond, right? < 1317754719 379269 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: people will make their minds up on what someone shouts in their ear < 1317754722 945940 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is wrong < 1317754726 145860 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have tried that already < 1317754732 133007 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put him on ignore for several months < 1317754735 652837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /did/ you get into trouble? < 1317754737 202700 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that time everyone hated me < 1317754738 502447 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1317754744 33950 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got kicked out of here. < 1317754757 63646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: well, do you think arguing with everything he says will make people hate you less? < 1317754758 458233 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignoring a danger does not make it go away. < 1317754775 623275 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives me a chance to highlight bullshit < 1317754793 401360 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317754808 12608 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is often needed because often people don't know what's true or don't care enough to find out the final truth of the matter and instead they just accept what is given to them < 1317754828 957677 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1317754869 324627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the problem is that you've kept up a stream of comments that could be misinterpreted as being about elliott for months/years now, even if they apparently are < 1317754875 793610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he doesn't like the apparent constant barrage of attacks < 1317754882 906606 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean aren't? < 1317754921 348380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yes < 1317754923 227933 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :look ais, ANYTHING can be taken out of context and made to look like i'm talking about anyone in particular < 1317754933 317342 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how language works < 1317754946 70113 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't take single sentences and interpret them without context < 1317754976 22373 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will without fail be able to conceive any sort of twisted sick stupidity by doing that < 1317754999 284767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: so why doesn't elliott do this with anyone else? < 1317755012 136835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty rare for a troll to be out for one person specifically < 1317755019 158238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we should take this to /query, no reason to clog up #esoteric < 1317755028 958259 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I recall it, at least the "responsibility for your pets" line that actually did get you kicked out was very hard to interpret as being about anything else than elliott, given that it explicitly names him, and is (as far as one can tell from it) about things happening completely elsewhere. < 1317755053 928525 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ais, it is not < 1317755067 804241 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that was ages ago. < 1317755083 319514 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and again, this was in response to something he did. < 1317755100 618311 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was what got you kicked out, not ignoring him. As far as I know. I'm certainly no expert on the whole debacle. < 1317755102 24742 :Sgeo|web!ad034d00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.3.77.0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317755160 794448 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I don't want to be, so feel free to continue in query with ais523 if it seems more profitable than on-channel discussion.) < 1317755385 741308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, can I go invite everyone back now? and can we actually discuss esolangs then? < 1317755455 569419 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding the first point, if you are feeling brave, certainly; regarding the second, it might be too much to hope for? < 1317755477 426687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1317755500 269796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aww, but I like esolangs < 1317755509 495125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317755519 11176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs are shit, man. < 1317755525 850760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1317755527 38336 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You could try throwing out some topics, maybe one of them will (metaphorically) catch fire. < 1317755538 212849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh, you just reminded me of Burn < 1317755543 977949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it can't be /that/ hard to figure out < 1317755556 321312 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm publishing a spec for my latest esolang at current < 1317755561 172741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Burn backstory: I wrote an esolang, then forgot how it worked, and all I have is one sample program to try to reconstruct it from) < 1317755566 280764 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317755611 191289 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure what the "BG" means in the comment? Background? Blue/green? < 1317755641 119331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burn grade. < 1317755657 613055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baguette gastronomy. < 1317755692 874556 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sorry, i was refering to another time. but that doesn't matter, anyways. there's little reason to talk about this. < 1317755741 46012 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Have you considered some sort of repressed-memory hypnotherapy sort of thing? < 1317755749 204386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, I hadn't < 1317755766 913219 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it in webcomics, it worked quite well there. < 1317756111 823802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what interesting feature does it have? < 1317756123 211237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there more than one? (people typically don't waste interesting esolang properties by doubling up on them) < 1317756140 199232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Leonard Nimoy is "retiring". < 1317756162 634298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it's Brook, then the idea is that the program outputs its own interpreter, which is used to run itself, lazily < 1317756166 997544 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program can create a stream of characters which is interpreted as per the program's spec < 1317756172 14752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably with some prefix of an interpreter to start it off < 1317756184 397726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, a sort of backwards Muriel? < 1317756195 923718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me it has no other loop construct, and I'll be pleased < 1317756207 606273 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a fixed, non conditional loop < 1317756215 711424 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Pop a number and loop that many times" < 1317756224 912637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'll give you that < 1317756226 232807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's conditional, sort of < 1317756226 397305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1317756230 352062 :tiffany!~tiffany@fl-76-3-21-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317756245 390266 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-215-70.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: would you be able to remove it? < 1317756251 275155 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning? < 1317756255 32481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's entropic < 1317756262 154358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: argument 0 or 1, you have an if < 1317756274 216845 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, true < 1317756282 804686 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may make it fixed length at write-time < 1317756284 320974 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of non-textual syntax (yes, yes, I know it wasn't the topic), any existing languages where the "lexical" structure is based on taking an audio file, turning it into a spectro-temporal representation (i.e. spectrogram) with some well-defined parameters, and then having some features in that domain that do things? It sounds like it could work slightly like Fugue/Prelude/Musical-X/(esp.) Velato, except it would give even more freedom to the musician-progr < 1317756284 467634 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ammer to make it sound like whatever e wants (assuming "coarse" enough do-a-thing features). < 1317756291 987686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have, basically, a primitive recursive programming language, that can only become TC by doing a weird interp-loop thing < 1317756295 605628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the concept < 1317756306 508689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, I'm sure it was the topic /once/ < 1317756306 655504 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, "17(16^) pushes 16 to the queue 17 times < 1317756350 741932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have a different opinion on musical languages; I'd prefer them to sound like interesting and varied music upon compiling arbitrary programs to them < 1317756365 26041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That sounds almost as useless as SPEECH RECOGNITION. < 1317756369 331576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you compile Lost Kingdoms to Fugue, it's very repetitive because the huge lists of >>>>>> and <<<<<<< just become scales < 1317756382 258220 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That is obviously a better thing, but it's not quite as trivial. < 1317756383 774261 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to see a Screamo < 1317756392 760696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds quite nice in the context of hworld.mid, but not in something that does a lot of lefting and righting < 1317756407 902115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I haven't /actually/ compiled Lost Kingdoms to Fugue, but that's what it'd sound like if I did) < 1317756408 225507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/do-you-google.html this is still the best blog post ever < 1317756440 521584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was disappointed when the ksplice security advisory for Bowser's Castle disappeared when Oracle bought them < 1317756446 104099 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: instead of a simple mapping of "up one note" and "down one note" you need to use phrases, and follow up through them. < 1317756451 756642 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to sequence these phrases. < 1317756455 900217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh dear, Oracle bought them? < 1317756460 46157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1317756462 816901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame < 1317756471 756165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was one of my favourite blog posts ever < 1317756475 319269 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something that was mostly figured out in the 80s in so called "arranger keyboards" < 1317756492 137708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you know that esolangs.org/w redirects to the wiki? < 1317756495 919118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've saved, like, whole seconds of typing time < 1317756519 677578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, although it doesn't surprise me < 1317756527 587660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you just use the Esolang search box in the corner of your browser? < 1317756547 905707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317756555 357202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, that's a vague attempt at tab=8-style trolling) < 1317756569 11757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a new one, though, so I don't mind < 1317756573 653001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appreciate that even though I'm correct, trying to prove it to everyone else is a waste of time < 1317756580 568591 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the "eso" keyword-bookmarklet, or the Esolang search widget in your panel, or the Esolang wiki screensaver (just wait for the article of interest), or ... < 1317756593 60306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make @ render \t as 9 spaces in absolutely all situations. < 1317756606 333653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, does anyone know an appropriate channel/webforum/newsgroup for having flamewars about indentation styles? < 1317756606 991822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To change that involves delving deep into driver code and messing with bitshifts. < 1317756614 586106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /dev/null < 1317756621 338842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, people go there fore the purpose of flamewarring with each other? < 1317756631 574848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the web really needs a decent index < 1317756644 437090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yahoo used to be that before search engines took off, it was part of the reason it got popular < 1317756659 407124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmoz? :-P < 1317756670 605078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still Waiting for DMOZ? - Try BOTW Business Directory < 1317756670 768936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.botw.org/submit < 1317756670 915617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guaranteed Submission Reviews < 1317756672 415404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ad < 1317756687 267172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, dmoz is alexa rank 592 < 1317756688 253509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317756714 544499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After a Slashdot article suggested that Gnuhoo had nothing in common with the spirit of free software,[2] for which the GNU project was known, Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation objected to the use of Gnu. So Gnuhoo was changed to NewHoo. Yahoo! then objected to the use of "Hoo" in the name, prompting them to switch the name again." < 1317756721 616079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We like your name, apart from the gnu part and the hoo part. < 1317756777 661043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did think of dmoz < 1317756778 941191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, Google Directory is down < 1317756781 593244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Directory is no longer available. < 1317756781 746222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We believe that Web Search is the fastest way to find the information you need on the web. < 1317756781 893127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you prefer to browse a directory of the web, visit the Open Directory Project at dmoz.org < 1317756807 590052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here you go, google thinks this is the place to flamewar indentation: http://www.ruby-forum.com/topic/114942 < 1317756837 990953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, dmoz isn't really clear enough < 1317756840 136486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Ruby? < 1317756850 501558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually makes some sort of sense < 1317756851 986158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Web Search is the fastest way to find the information you need on the web. < 1317756853 961022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't question it. < 1317756865 2512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"flame war forum 12 up, 3 down < 1317756865 164967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A site on the internet where flaming is encouraged for the purpose of entertainment. < 1317756865 311801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.flamewarforum.com < 1317756865 312003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contains information regarding what a flame war is, how to flame, how best to respond to flaming and a guide to forum speak." < 1317756868 623324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Urban Dictionary saves the day again < 1317756876 563713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only it wasn't squatted < 1317756895 159176 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to find an alt.comp.* group for it, but no much luck. < 1317756909 603816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.comp.eight-space-tabs.die.die.die < 1317756911 602284 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip68-6-84-209.sb.sd.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people still use newsgroups? < 1317756919 475533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1317756922 611099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did I get the reference right?) < 1317756933 316502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1317756939 322391 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm debating whether including a global register in Brook that different continuities (As I call them) can all access < 1317756939 469078 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usenet will never die.die.die. < 1317756947 884901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was in a discussion about facts (thus not flamewar) recently, and was planning to turn to Usenet for help < 1317756955 329053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it turned out it had been discussed already < 1317756955 476141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: that sounds lame, make it harder < 1317756962 953160 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEAL < 1317756974 287029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the issue in question: is "int main(){return 0;}", technically speaking, strictly conforming C?) < 1317756994 95264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the only bit people think is potentially problematic is main() rather than main(void)) < 1317757000 480937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which standard? < 1317757005 742367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's valid C99 and C[eight]9 < 1317757009 35442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1317757009 570628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1317757010 893438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's valid C99 < 1317757015 138617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 and C99 < 1317757015 301117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not be valid C[eight]9 < 1317757016 453168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1317757019 132228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it's valid < 1317757022 430376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, it's a nontrivial question < 1317757024 565971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: () means (void) in definitions < 1317757028 349787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C99, it means (void) in declarations too < 1317757034 784151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in C[eight]9, it means unspecified prototype < 1317757039 165487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, it's definitely conforming < 1317757043 597561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in C99 it doesn't mean (void) in declarations too < 1317757046 409927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking of implicit int < 1317757049 215515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1317757055 306999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, in definitions is always means (void) < 1317757058 930478 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1317757076 562818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, the conclusion was that /if/ it's legal, it means the same thing as the version with void specified, because of the whole declaration-equivalence thing < 1317757086 604339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, apparently there's an accidental miswording in the definition of main < 1317757092 201665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which suggests that maybe it isn't after all < 1317757101 749251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1317757103 123431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what miswording? < 1317757111 933914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1317757125 989716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it implies that the prototype of main has to specify the types void, or int+char**, or equivalent < 1317757129 774246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't define "equivalent" < 1317757130 89741 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: C99 "It shall be defined with a return type of int and with no parameters: int main(void) { /* ... */ } or ..." < 1317757149 214841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep, something like that < 1317757206 12576 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "or equivalent" (based on the placement of semicolons) only applies for the two-argument form, where a footnote says "int can be replaced by a typedef name defined as int, or the type of argv can be written as char ** argv, and so on". < 1317757232 144090 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1317757232 290941 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1317757277 925757 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :N1570 (latest C1x) hasn't changed any of that wording, apparently. < 1317757294 378085 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for the most important stage in any esolang creation < 1317757294 524758 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making sure the name isn't taken already < 1317757299 379830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1570 is latest? good to know the number < 1317757311 720099 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is; it's from April. < 1317757316 837608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's likely to change for C1x? I thought C99 did most of the changes people wanted and hadn't really caught on anyway < 1317757319 651822 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest that I knew of. < 1317757332 200615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: bleh, just call it Clue < 1317757332 529183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 caught on pretty well for the successor to C[eight]9 < 1317757346 651918 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C1x makes some amount of (possibly the least adopted) mandatory C99 features optional. < 1317757350 581991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suspect C89 is still used more < 1317757386 450680 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame, too; C99 adds many conveniences. < 1317757407 451799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then of course it adds its own features that are already subject of debate; like threading, type-generic expressions and the removal of gets. < 1317757416 704475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :removal of gets? wow < 1317757431 637175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I proved it was theoretically possible to use safely, but such uses weren't actually useful < 1317757439 215105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how? < 1317757449 504188 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how do you add removal of gets? < 1317757449 921228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reading back from a temporary file you wrote yourself < 1317757456 404815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: someone else could have changed it < 1317757468 811645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd violate the definitions in the standard, IIRC < 1317757469 596537 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or having stdin rebound to be a pipe from yourself. < 1317757478 351192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you mean of temporary files? < 1317757481 484319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can't be done in standard C < 1317757487 409511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so, not sure, it was a while ago < 1317757488 346876 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, but it can be done in POSIX. < 1317757495 484315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and that's a good way to safe-gets in POSIX < 1317757496 961857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: reading a temporary file you wrote yourself is perfectly useful; it lets you prove a hosted C system TC < 1317757505 221368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1317757507 248825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why use gets? < 1317757512 792288 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: At that point of the sentence when gets came up, I didn't quite feel up to rearranging it. < 1317757513 167156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit of a wonky API for that < 1317757515 500807 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Legacy only. < 1317757522 221893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you said you could use gets safely but it wasn't useful < 1317757528 421371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I meant < 1317757530 562481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if your language is somehow naturally line-based memory-wise, why not? < 1317757532 534927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that the API wasn't good for typical use < 1317757546 89465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know the length, so just use fread/fwrite < 1317757552 545711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always just write your own gets a < 1317757554 944394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :, anyway < 1317757555 187382 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats monqy -----###
< 1317757567 624515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more code < 1317757570 258672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why bother? gets is safe < 1317757582 896998 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, i thought you meant "the ability to remove gets" < 1317757590 838261 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spec online < 1317757597 828200 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, there are gets, and then you call a magical function, and then the gets are not there. < 1317757604 271056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: similar amount of code, as you don't have to write the \n terminator by hand < 1317757609 231549 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what are gets? getters on structs?) < 1317757619 639734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, eh? < 1317757626 232380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They do add a "gets_s" function, which is like fgets() in that it accepts a maximum size for the destination, but like gets() in that it always reads a full line of input, maintaining a one-to-one mapping to input lines and gets_s calls. < 1317757631 990819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you can't use gets to read a file you wrote yourself < 1317757634 128822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gets works on stdin < 1317757649 704006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ngevd: bleh, just call it Clue <-- * oerjan swats ais523 for not remembering oklopol [?] has an esolang named that -----### < 1317757653 72245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you redirect stdin; freopen is standard < 1317757657 952476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it is? < 1317757666 423911 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, sure enough. < 1317757667 1915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoosh < 1317757667 826827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you missed the point, there are /two/ esolangs called Clue already < 1317757668 419244 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that's the joke < 1317757668 565843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoooosh < 1317757670 624312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHOOOOOOOOOSH < 1317757672 933356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[gale force wind] < 1317757680 253448 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can attach any damned file to stdin. < 1317757694 842143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dup2 is POSIX, freopen is C89 < 1317757701 120271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either would work for that situation < 1317757718 764634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can write tie in pure C89? < 1317757724 137498 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My long-term project Uniquode includes embedded Clue (Keymaker) programs functioning as gotos < 1317757729 815370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to loop stdin<->stdout and then call system() < 1317757740 671056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with freopen and a temporary file, perhaps? < 1317757750 875473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: brook is the best name for it imo < 1317757760 759074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, you'd need a pipe, and there's no way to write one in C89 < 1317757768 995307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it if you also had fork, and simulated a pie by hand < 1317757772 944078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pipe < 1317757777 718328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't have fork in C89 < 1317757782 282807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can't you rewind the fd after writing to it? < 1317757787 207440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can't control writes though < 1317757792 62813 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe Brook already is a programming language that isn't esoteric < 1317757800 570064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need, like, a don't-forward-read-pointer-on-write fd < 1317757802 382661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: doesn't matter < 1317757806 662408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: esolangs have nameclashed with reallangs before < 1317757807 638436 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C based language for GPU things < 1317757810 465954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: we have one called cobol too < 1317757815 222184 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OH, you mean the gets() function, sorry < 1317757821 863607 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :< confused! < 1317757849 315488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blows away
< 1317757888 389733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: have you ever seen SystemC? < 1317757906 169564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possibly the scariest non-eso lang I've ever seen < 1317757910 124290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, beats all the esolangs too < 1317757911 925951 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :SystemC sounds familiar < 1317757913 963497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please, this is polite company < 1317757917 159130 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it? < 1317757925 70574 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is it scary? < 1317757926 597219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SystemC is that LLVM thing, no? < 1317757927 422546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its design principle can be summarised as "recreate VHDL with C++ templates" < 1317757936 986636 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh right < 1317757940 259622 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember < 1317757951 119753 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Incidentally, C1x also adds an exclusive create-and-open mode, so if you open the temporary file as "w+x", you can possibly be more assured it won't change before the gets() call (that has sadly been removed...); it creates the file "with exclusive (also known as non-shared) access to the extent that the underlying system supports exclusive access". < 1317757951 266549 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's this kinda XML looking thing right? < 1317757958 236171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I replied to an /r/programming thread you were in :P < 1317757960 551559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY MAN < 1317757984 679890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(was reminded of it by the VHDL comment) < 1317757986 667737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why is that a sorry? also, which one? < 1317757995 967630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/kz98v/your_favorite_language_probably_sucks_at/c2onwrv?context=3 < 1317758002 794821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to simulate a pie by hand, you must first simulate the universe < 1317758003 48554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my answer to both questions :P < 1317758026 839519 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha < 1317758040 567380 :cheater!~cheater@ip-2-200-118-137.web.vodafone.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's funny, did you just come up with that? < 1317758052 770173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :carl "oerjan" sagan < 1317758080 300282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the funny thing is, that that answer is completely accurate and yet /looks/ like trolling < 1317758086 556114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1317758098 89031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to the question to me on Reddit, IMean < 1317758099 894716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I mean < 1317758116 401666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I see what you mean :P < 1317758133 840772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, my favourite toaster automaton language is Tcl < 1317758155 23452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, don't tell him, but I've accidentally adopted the ineiros tab method < 1317758207 119443 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317758232 941318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that to trolling like an anti-joke is to a joke? < 1317758266 848117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't know < 1317758282 545546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i should apologize for pointing elliott to that thread, then :P < 1317758306 780277 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also called "the crazy method". < 1317758342 964137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does he take it to the point of intentionally kill -9'ing his browser to spring clean? < 1317758393 590145 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually think he cleaned the nesting out one of these days. But I wouldn't put it past him to be at six or so already again. < 1317758399 403993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. < 1317758399 612524 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ineiros's tab method again < 1317758399 759387 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317758408 959305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately with Chrome closing tabs pushes the tabsets away. :p < 1317758420 155822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Using the "oops, the browser crashed, here's the tabs you had" screen to store tabsets. < 1317758424 444497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /Nested./ < 1317758454 895043 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have started working on the asm-to-bf project < 1317758457 263350 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Firefox has the "restore tabs" screen; if you ignore it and start piling on new tabs, when it crashes the next time, the "restore tabs" screen has a "restore tabs" screen inside it. And so on. (Do I misremember, or did it actually show it as a tree?) < 1317758484 3294 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :first i am working on a good bf interpreter now...which dynamically allocates cell < 1317758491 753615 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspired by beef! < 1317758501 988343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think egobfi does that already < 1317758507 260104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to look at the esotope BF compiler < 1317758516 970272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nested? otherwise i use that when i restart IE (which may be more due to the fact IE has a memory leak bug or something that _requires_ that i restart it before it makes my whole laptop flaky^Hier than usual) < 1317758526 243222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes the wrong way (BF to C) but conveys are pretty deep understanding of BF's semantics :P < 1317758542 778090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nested, as in "crashed, here's tabs" pages offering a "crashed, here's tabs" page as one of the ones to reopen < 1317758546 271988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then contains a tabset itself. < 1317758562 545045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ouch. < 1317758658 686913 :kwertii!~kwertii@ip68-6-84-209.sb.sd.cox.net QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1317758785 69545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, IE doesn't afaik offer recursion on that, which has occasionally bitten me when the restart is due to some program wanting an update and a complete reboot before opening its _own_ browser page which i then close before thinking. < 1317758828 26499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Firefox does. < 1317758990 300590 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:esotope is a great idea but my project will convert assembly like opcodes to brainfuck < 1317759100 944554 :ralc!~ralc@79.142.230.243.static.knet.bolignet.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1317759103 77373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just offering reading material < 1317759134 372202 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:thanks for that...esotope is really state of the art! < 1317759150 703377 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the optimization....its awesome! < 1317759184 427872 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Incidentally, the nestedness feature will involve escaping (and double-escaping, and triple-escaping, and so on) in the JSON that's holding the tab information. < 1317759232 871114 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It looks like: ({"windows":[{"tabs":[{"entries":[{"url":"about:sessionrestore","title":"Restore Session","ID":0,"formdata":{"#sessionData":"({\"windows\" ... :\"({\\\"windows\\\": ... :\\\"({\\\\\\\"windows\\\\\\\" ... < 1317759262 716193 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fizzie a bot? < 1317759276 225053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's ... exponential growth < 1317759293 247116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: is your master a bot? < 1317759296 881593 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, which makes his nesting depth of 8 or 9 or so rather... interesting. I think it finally failed. < 1317759321 281876 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What, are you mute or something? < 1317759321 428721 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: these unique items make us invincible! < 1317759366 307851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't think i'd used it that much... i guess no one else has. < 1317759396 754742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait right < 1317759406 771206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'''Brook''' is a language created by [[User:Taneb]] in 2011 with the gimmick that the program can produce and immediately execute an infinite length program written in Brook. It is unknown if it is [[Turing-complete]] or not. ==IF YOU ARE [[User:Ehird]], do not read onwards! That means you, elliott!== < 1317759420 616737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i first used it, then pasted the conversation to elliott, which triggered it again < 1317759422 858942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: wow, I've never seen something like that in a wiki article < 1317759437 192163 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of these days it'd be time to add a new ^style again. < 1317759470 209388 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are there right-wing american radio host transcripts? < 1317759476 368087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an idea. < 1317759488 418051 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are there conservapedia db-dumps? < 1317759494 358603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1317759516 745510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, but that might be even better... < 1317759541 485648 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the current Wikipedia style is very bad. I tried to use talk pages to make it more conversational, but it's not really all that, and also the formatting removal was pretty weak sauce. < 1317759702 628745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, i just realized fungot's markovization would only make it more sensible. < 1317759702 813045 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the knight spirit has. you came to see it? that glow...!? is that schala's! i see you're dressing...normally again! < 1317759911 323338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote An 'ad hobbitem' fallacy is when you try to undermine someone's credibility by referring to how hairy his/her feets are. < 1317759916 65209 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :701) An 'ad hobbitem' fallacy is when you try to undermine someone's credibility by referring to how hairy his/her feets are. < 1317760049 521397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Bilbo undecigesimos primos annos, CXI, actus erit, numerum insuetiore et aetatem respectabilem ad Hobbitem --" < 1317760051 785719 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo ! < 1317760060 607356 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to use HackEgo < 1317760069 291674 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I make no claims as to the accuracy of that. < 1317760070 989395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually says eleventy-first :P < 1317760140 592017 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, well, it came via "rivendellworld.proboards.com" and apparently originally from a Geocities page, so... < 1317760227 229534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks plausible to this amateur, anyway < 1317760259 569436 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's at least equally accurate as the rec.arts.books.tolkien/alt.fan.tolkien "free ebook" of LOTR that they published as a response to all the people coming there and asking for a copy of the ebook. < 1317760542 224453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1317760557 436691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(temporarily) < 1317760589 883184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : is fizzie a bot? < 1317760591 361813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadhu: yes :) < 1317760601 147815 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NO BOT I SHOW YOU BOT < 1317760602 452444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sahre hackego: < 1317760603 56485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1317760603 719951 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1317760608 137857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1317760609 941469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadhu: re hackego < 1317760666 639728 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may try to write a Fibonacci numbers thing in Brook < 1317760702 364022 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :run echo brainfucked! < 1317760708 795448 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo brainfucked! < 1317760710 360257 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfucked! < 1317760718 108009 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat /etc/fstab < 1317760719 590060 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /etc/fstab: No such file or directory < 1317760731 645293 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1317760752 747617 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we in for another break-out-of-plash session? (Or is that umlbox already?) < 1317760758 306877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :umlbox, yes. < 1317760778 148732 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umlbox is the box sort of box. < 1317760783 661239 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, best sort of box, I tried to say. < 1317760790 377233 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But undoubtedly it's the box sort of box too. < 1317760883 956886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can you make a "fungot" style with everything fungot has said over its lifetime? < 1317760884 141155 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but cyrus! are you leaving! moon stone?! you dare to defile this place is a mini war zone! this must be the invention. hope it still leaves you hungry! here you are the only one thing we need to defeat you, lavos. < 1317760895 996546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including non-babble. < 1317760940 418612 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, sure. I should probably automate some steps in the style-making, though, to experiment more easily with it. < 1317760961 210342 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I have to copy-paste at least five commands! < 1317761074 565942 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317761078 465732 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317761117 464470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do people thing of Brook? < 1317761325 573338 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1317761775 701599 :sadhu!~kaus@117.201.50.161 QUIT :Quit: Grrr......... X-D < 1317761778 445045 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brook fibonacci numbers program: I2(1^@O)2^-2(94^@c1^@C)C40^c85^c43^c64^c85^c64^c79^c41^c < 1317761782 534870 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6f29.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317761786 657793 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why are you going to replace units? < 1317761786 911717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:13:25: "[Unlambda] does not have predefined data types, other than the program source" < 1317761790 407767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:13:43: Hmm, can the .cs be considered a data type? < 1317761813 818795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say the continuations fit better, although there's a way to simulate them in source < 1317761837 739247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlambda continuatinos are just functions < 1317761854 877770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But are they faster than light? < 1317761891 274876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't _think_ there is any unlambda value which cannot be written equivalently as source < 1317762054 30302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is the single last character read, btw. < 1317762133 229027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite hard to reify into a function, because of the lack of something to fit in the last spot of . : | :: ? : < 1317762144 316548 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight! < 1317762147 535445 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-146-167-200.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317762400 68991 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-205-127.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317762534 467931 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-37.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1317762609 683355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < CakeProphet> elliott: why are you going to replace units? < 1317762747 989631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'LL SEE. < 1317762869 361293 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have you looked at Firefox's session(re)store file when you have some sessions waiting for you? < 1317762881 888602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: That escaped JSON thing? But I use Chrome. :p < 1317762898 869721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Chrome, it GCs my old tabs by pushing them off the "recently closed tabs" list. < 1317762928 76534 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there something better than units? < 1317762944 700595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I already said YOU'LL SEE. :p < 1317763005 190843 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: I pasted that thing you pasted me. < 1317763075 423887 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1317763080 41354 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like Chrome's way of forgetting the tabs. And I dislike its way of forgetting pinned tabs (if I open an additional window). < 1317763112 902549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see the point of pinned tabs much. < 1317763113 890516 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, didn't read the whole context. I'm on my N900 and I'm lazy. < 1317763155 239066 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: It might have happened slightly later, I didn't recall the horror immediately. < 1317763233 468470 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Basically I mark the pages I really want to read at some point with that feature. < 1317763285 32580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use bookmarks. :p < 1317763360 64116 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't want to see later I want to see NOW < 1317763368 652800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Too bad. < 1317763370 630607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm busy. < 1317763383 871279 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bookmarks are things I probably will never return to. < 1317763619 886877 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nowadays recognize the limits of time, and like to keep the tabs annoying me until I read or permanently close them. < 1317764412 786576 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1317764454 380561 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have bookmarks I have not read in a year. < 1317764566 275723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: CSE can introduce space leaks, right? < 1317764596 254377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because e.g. "case huge x of OK _ -> { long-running code that calculates huge x in one place in a very rare circumstance and throws it away immediately }; _ -> error ..." < 1317764597 70565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> < 1317764614 403835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let x' = huge x in case x' of OK _ -> { ha ha, x' is kept around forever in here }; _ -> error ... < 1317764731 195483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i thought that was the main reason why ghc doesn't do it aggressively < 1317764737 682411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1317764745 602497 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6f29.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1317764792 46310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i have bookmarks i have not read in 9 years. admittedly they're on a cd which may or may not be readable any longer. < 1317764824 159642 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in netscape format < 1317764840 667238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bookmarks that I left to read later. < 1317764880 123871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i did with those, too. < 1317764895 703113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you used netscape? :DD < 1317764900 306710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you switch to IE because it was the hot new thing < 1317764937 778610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TIL that Mac touchpads completely screw up my muscle memory < 1317764946 358265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i switched to IE because my laptop came with windows preinstalled and i am lazy. < 1317764947 676160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to drag via double-tap rather than via pushing unusually hard < 1317764968 14730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, trying to scroll with the edge of the touchpad rather than via using two fingers < 1317765021 834314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I was trying to drag via double-tap rather than via pushing unusually hard < 1317765023 554406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how you drag < 1317765035 513748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you drag, then? < 1317765038 489759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you click with thumb and use ... whatever finger comes after thumb ... to move < 1317765044 92431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1317765052 525229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyingly, the linux drivers for this touchpad breaks that < 1317765058 619011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushing unusually hard also works, and is what the Mac owner showed me < 1317765064 736107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I /do/ have to just push unusually hard in practice < 1317765071 669806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatedly: I don't move windows much < 1317765104 958117 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what finger comes after your thumb? < 1317765111 411102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno :D < 1317765111 575579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember why I was dragging; that might have been it < 1317765113 224301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: index < 1317765137 789509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then, I'm the sort of insane person who's used tap-drag while playing Enigma < 1317765167 59455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for the big question: what comes after index. i am not sure myself. < 1317765186 33693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bird finger < 1317765192 561808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...makes sense. < 1317765197 536728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's literally middle < 1317765198 901385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boooooring < 1317765206 978698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just call them zero one two three and four < 1317765209 89966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe you, but it does make sense. < 1317765220 278164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's laugh at all those animals without opposable zeroes < 1317765249 226885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should never laugh at positivity. < 1317765332 433228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh now i remember, middle finger was the name of that planet in forever war < 1317765397 394878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it was a snub against the rest of humanity that they wouldn't understand < 1317765668 559218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terrible ideas: gch, a Haskell frontend for gcc. < 1317765668 785512 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thumb, index, middle, ring and the pinky a.k.a. "commie" finger. < 1317765686 408730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it with the tendency of two messages after a long period of silence to coincide almost exactly, timewise? < 1317765693 550575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realise there's selection bias but it happens in one-to-one conversations all the time. < 1317765717 692185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : synchronicity < 1317765783 66598 :ive!~nn@189.179.248.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317765928 815179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"After all, Ada language is used into mission critial software, and Haskell has been influenced by Ada: This can’t be for accident, after all, don’t you believe?" < 1317766010 651138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who wrote that? < 1317766024 713537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like some sort of crazy opposite to zzo38 < 1317766071 218232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://alfredodinapoli.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/book-review-learn-you-a-haskell-for-great-good/ < 1317766094 980174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm _is_ there any ada influence in haskell, i wonder < 1317766249 819115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a book review on learn you a haskell? < 1317766252 603153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worried, now < 1317766256 824581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1317766270 86217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the existence of a book review < 1317766273 219113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sentence in a book review < 1317766337 188456 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1317766469 60675 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1317767148 731253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, Ngevd isn't here. < 1317767206 498546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a disturbingly normal sleeping rhythm, there must be something wrong with him. < 1317767244 595723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly. < 1317767311 466803 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's disturbingly little wrong with him, there must be something wrong with him." < 1317767314 741094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think I might kick off qhc by just writing a parser for layout-less Haskell; I can then modify the various "brace" parsers to handle it. < 1317767342 705719 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :only mad people sleep when the sane people are still awake < 1317767379 23388 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're saying it's safe to go to sleep now? < 1317767433 995020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: huh i thought oerjan said that < 1317767438 724917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the kind of thing he would say :P < 1317767446 137799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did I, initially. < 1317767459 825629 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps they're the same person. < 1317767469 311684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : So did I, initially. <-- same < 1317767470 969989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out where jhc's FrontEnd.HsSyn comes from
< 1317767471 661242 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should check. < 1317767494 334316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all haskell implementations written primarily in haskell? < 1317767512 341019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, all modern ones < 1317767526 627978 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hugs is in C < 1317767530 54966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317767537 619073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: was hugs the first one? < 1317767542 809947 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Three people have thought it was you; by international maritime law, you are now legally obligated to say it. < 1317767545 263898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Hugs derives from Gofer < 1317767549 23464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1317767555 806964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which one was the first one then? < 1317767561 971617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan probably knows what the first actual implementation of Haskell was, but I think it's hard to say < 1317767567 631420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1317767570 881691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell was basically a merging of like two or three other languages at the time < 1317767572 382066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd have to look it up < 1317767575 824655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317767582 555422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I imagine most implementations simply evolved < 1317767583 695337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which ones? < 1317767584 634274 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should all just tune your nick colorization better so that me and oerjan get different colors < 1317767585 551532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than were written from scratch < 1317767598 80485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well Miranda for one < 1317767600 757344 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't use that feature < 1317767603 948684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what other ones? < 1317767605 113696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my nick colorization is perfectly tuned, everyone is black on white < 1317767617 170259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Following the release of Miranda by Research Software Ltd, in 1985, interest in lazy functional languages grew: by 1987, more than a dozen non-strict, purely functional programming languages existed. Of these, Miranda was the most widely used, but was not in the public domain. At the conference on Functional Programming Languages and Computer Architecture (FPCA '87) in Portland, Oregon, a meeting was held during which participants formed a strong < 1317767617 316819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : consensus that a committee should be formed to define an open standard for such languages. The committee's purpose was to consolidate the existing functional languages into a common one that would serve as a basis for future research in functional-language design.[10] < 1317767627 957082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, oerjan probably knows what the first Haskell impl was anyway :-P < 1317767647 543124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1317767649 793026 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how IRC would be if you just removed everone else's nicks entirely < 1317767659 406398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: he said he would have to look it up above < 1317767663 341982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: better and worse < 1317767665 414754 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be like conversing with the hive mind < 1317767665 698022 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: IRCnet ircd has a channel mode for that. < 1317767675 932303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you would be more objective in general, but you would waste time reading troll messages < 1317767703 250804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The language is rooted in the observations of Haskell Curry and his intellectual descendants, that "a proof is a program; the formula it proves is a type for the program"." --Wikipedia, on Haskell, being full of shit < 1317767705 188252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall something about "written in ml" < 1317767760 792149 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The +a mode on a !channel will rewrite all PRIVMSGs, joins, parts and whatever to appear to come from "anonymous!anonymous@anonymous". It's also irrevocable. < 1317767762 932487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: 4chan? < 1317767778 270323 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* Exception: stack overflow" --Uncyclopedia, reporting the truth about Haskell < 1317767783 114220 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317767810 696438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack overflows are like, the least common haskell error :P < 1317767816 806665 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, right, already invented... meh < 1317767820 759716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Irrevocable? < 1317767823 229173 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We tried the "count consecutive numbers" thing on a +a channel once to attempt to figure out how many people were present, but it just kept going and going. < 1317767826 62069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So if I were to take over a channel... < 1317767846 100012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that it still sends joins and parts, though. < 1317767847 72733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very useful. < 1317767854 671688 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall you need to have the +O flag only the original channel creator gets. < 1317767902 18181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Re just kept going and going, I imagine people repeated themselves for "the lulz", as they call it. :p < 1317767914 722355 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or someone quickly built a counting bot or three < 1317767978 909858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does use "always on top" quite a bit.
< 1317767983 849854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did haskell 98 actually improve anything? < 1317767990 838739 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always hate that Windows doesn't have that. < 1317768014 622601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GHC was begun in January 1989 at the University of Glasgow, as < 1317768014 769306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon as the initial language design was fixed. The first version of < 1317768014 769474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC was written in LML by Kevin Hammond, and was essentially < 1317768016 319939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new front end to the Chalmers LML compiler." < 1317768022 99271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: um yes it does < 1317768024 820925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1317768033 53648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there we go then < 1317768044 390253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I bet LML = Lazy ML < 1317768049 856153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may not have been the _only_ one then, though... < 1317768054 222535 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.2.1 of http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2811.html -- yes, it needs the channel creator privilege on !foo; not on &foo, but it's un-settable there too. < 1317768056 16784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it was probably pretty similar to Haskell, and might have even contributed to the design process < 1317768063 376718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that's before even the first standard < 1317768064 358247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/history-of-haskell/history.pdf section 9.1) < 1317768118 153255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: did haskell 98 actually improve anything? <-- i dunno, i've not learned any previous versions :P < 1317768125 591055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" SASL was even used at Burroughs to develop an < 1317768125 755676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :entire operating system—almost certainly the first exercise of < 1317768125 902342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure, lazy, functional programming “in the large”." < 1317768127 568478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heroes :') < 1317768136 561610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: surely you learnt the previous version to be able to contribute to the 98 report :P < 1317768139 748934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you learn it as it was written < 1317768176 289298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In July 1981, Peter Henderson, John Darlington, and David Turner < 1317768176 618881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ran an Advanced Course on Functional Programming and its Applications, in Newcastle (Darlington et al., 1982)." < 1317768178 591926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY OUR NEWCASTLE < 1317768254 984468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: remember that time a Clean programmer came here? < 1317768263 48334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could barely speak a lick of English but still, that's like meeting a giraffe < 1317768301 582938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: surely you learnt the previous version to be able to contribute to the 98 report :P <-- did he contribute to it? < 1317768311 674535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, he practically wrote half of it < 1317768318 963269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't believe that < 1317768347 270396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I could have believed that he wrote a paragraph or two in it. :P < 1317768367 191379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In addition, dozens of other people made helpful contributions, some small but many substantial. They are as follows: [...] Orjan Johansen [...]" < 1317768370 847653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it _may_ be that 98 was the first to have modules, i'm not sure < 1317768374 118848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIS WAS JUST PARTICULARLY SUBSTANTIAL < 1317768382 698644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah < 1317768386 65146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um i doubt that: < 1317768386 394313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell 1.4 report - html (tar + gzip) [125K] < 1317768386 556054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell 1.4 report - postscript [230k] < 1317768386 702977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell 1.4 library report - html (tar + gzip) [60k] < 1317768386 703069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell 1.4 library report - postscript [100K] < 1317768392 512815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unless "library" meant "huge list of predefined functions" < 1317768398 918513 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@70.255.226.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317768399 65120 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@70.255.226.22 QUIT :Changing host < 1317768399 65283 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@unaffiliated/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1317768406 701933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed not < 1317768409 27623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :module IO ( < 1317768411 334063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- The Haskell 1.4 Library Report < 1317768412 913957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1317768426 582503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An implementation is entitled to assume the following laws about these operations: < 1317768426 750664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : range (l,u) !! index (l,u) i == i -- when i is in range < 1317768426 897530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : inRange (l,u) i == i `elem` range (l,u) < 1317768428 945598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1317768439 337560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell 1.4 implementations were allowed to assume typeclass laws < 1317768458 730998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM5 :: (Monad m) => (a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f) -> < 1317768458 896230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (m a -> m b -> m c -> m d -> m e -> m f) < 1317768459 58420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM5 f = \a b c d e -> [f a' b' c' d' e' | < 1317768459 205039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : a' <- a, b' <- b, < 1317768459 721025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : c' <- c, d' <- d, e <- e'] < 1317768461 710880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice definition :D < 1317768494 948208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: remember that time a Clean programmer came here? <-- i've forgotten :( < 1317768495 927387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and IO had a Show instance... < 1317768517 166018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Show (a->b) where < 1317768517 312674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : showsPrec p f = showString "<>" < 1317768517 312849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Show (IO a) where < 1317768517 657871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : showsPrec p f = showString "<>" < 1317768520 943347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317768537 761476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course, it had Void < 1317768543 3810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Void? < 1317768546 584145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf was Void in haskell < 1317768547 247843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Void -- No constructor for Void is exported. Import/Export < 1317768547 395779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- lists must use Void instead of Void(..) or Void() < 1317768549 883184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty type < 1317768552 805243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1317768554 198023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly absent from later standards < 1317768558 325720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though implementable < 1317768560 783435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Void = Void Void < 1317768587 85231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Haskell 1.4 implementations were allowed to assume typeclass laws <-- i vaguely recall that is _still_ the case, it would just be insane to do so if you want any useful sandboxing < 1317768599 674298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the command to get the patched source directory of a package on debian again? < 1317768603 364333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yikes (sandboxing how?) < 1317768623 559813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apt-get source iirc? < 1317768636 227781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think that extracts it and applies patches < 1317768641 901148 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not for everything maybe < 1317768650 284541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1317768660 199624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seems to depend on /how/ the patches are done < 1317768680 228274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I swear there are as many package management systems for debian as there are packages... < 1317768695 794790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to just unpack the debian/ directory here < 1317768700 231877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it wants me to run the svn command < 1317768711 612077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right, it might have patches inside debian/ < 1317768731 257442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that are applied later < 1317768736 356400 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible to patch things from withing the debian/rules thing, yes. < 1317768741 562789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apt-get source < 1317768745 132214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: like with safe haskell... if you can write instances that cause segfaults because the implementation assumes things about them, you've got trouble. i recall arrays used to have such a problem in ghc. < 1317768756 730905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it downloads the original and the patch and then applies one to the other, leaving the original original there < 1317768771 59471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah. I was just thinking about simplifications of expressions. < 1317768790 192376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so I'm meant to manually extract the orig tarball it gives, right? < 1317768798 971721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says < 1317768800 285507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg-source: info: extracting gcj-4.5 in gcj-4.5-4.5.3 < 1317768800 432694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg-source: info: unpacking gcj-4.5_4.5.3.orig.tar.gz < 1317768800 578691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg-source: info: applying gcj-4.5_4.5.3-9ubuntu1.diff.gz < 1317768800 725418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1317768801 447452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, it creates adirectory < 1317768803 912973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ l < 1317768804 87437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian/ < 1317768804 565413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a directory < 1317768808 81794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the appropriately-named directory < 1317768815 482102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, that's the only thing that's there < 1317768815 628608 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... no? < 1317768821 821762 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1317768823 785882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: odd < 1317768828 484311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does say < 1317768830 130365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTICE: 'gcj-4.5' packaging is maintained in the 'Svn' version control system at: < 1317768830 296068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn://svn.debian.org/svn/gcccvs/branches/sid/gcc-4.5 < 1317768831 781524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that that gcj package is just a wrapper < 1317768832 650177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i run apt-get sourec < 1317768836 121152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :source < 1317768841 826905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah of course < 1317768841 978373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, hmm, there's a similar package ending -source < 1317768855 335944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~$ apt-get source gcj-4.5-source < 1317768855 482605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :source source source < 1317768859 134077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nope < 1317768861 206585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why gcj though? < 1317768863 727015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it downloaded the same package < 1317768865 572562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :packages that are -source are generally installed not downloaded < 1317768867 131914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I need to compile it < 1317768870 799108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :into /usr/src < 1317768876 805884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, who uses gcj? < 1317768885 155704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, probably I should download the gcc package instead < 1317768894 689929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, right < 1317768906 11030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and libgcj, presumably, if there is one < 1317768909 93952 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is probably part of gcc yes and just generated as part of building the entire gcc toolchain with everything < 1317768909 977492 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg-buildpackage should probably take care of compiling apt-get source'd things. < 1317768919 327306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I might only have to build libgcj, actually < 1317768922 620110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I want to change configure opts < 1317768941 965870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picking 'gcj-4.6' as source package instead of 'libgcj12' < 1317768944 447577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for /god's sake/ < 1317768959 417186 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GHC proper was begun in the autumn of 1989, by a team consisting < 1317768959 564074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :initially of Cordelia Hall, Will Partain, and Peyton Jones. It < 1317768959 564272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was designed from the ground up as a complete implementation of < 1317768959 564379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell in Haskell, bootstrapped via the prototype compiler. The < 1317768959 564487 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only part that was shared with the prototype was the parser, which < 1317768961 987139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: debian/ubuntu is a PITA to modify packages on. That thing is much easier on arch. Not a zillion different systems like on debian < 1317768962 134080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that stage was still written in Yacc and C. The first beta release < 1317768964 592052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was on 1 April 1991 (the date was no accident), but it was another < 1317768967 87580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 months before the first full release (version 0.10) was made in < 1317768969 623946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :December 1992. This version of GHC already supported several < 1317768972 204735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :extensions to Haskell: monadic I/O (which only made it officially < 1317768974 669825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :into Haskell in 1996), [...] < 1317768979 79449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : was on 1 April 1991 (the date was no accident), but it was another < 1317768979 733293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1317768982 291045 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just means "libgcj12" is generated from that source package. They do generate multiple binary ones. < 1317768984 704766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :interhaskell < 1317768990 712358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, but there's /no source/ in the directory :P < 1317769010 431933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rules rules.d/ rules.patch rules.unpack < 1317769010 590930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rules2 rules.defs rules.sonames runcheck.sh < 1317769010 737700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rules.conf rules.parameters rules.source < 1317769012 626437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is because it is generated from a different package. < 1317769014 854760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it's like the lottery < 1317769019 987202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1317769031 767200 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick a briefcase < 1317769047 42900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suspect all of these are somehow generated from the gcc package or such < 1317769057 6037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's stuff in the debian/ directory < 1317769070 864450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm < 1317769075 244212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange < 1317769078 41019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good lord, can I pay someone to build me a libgcj? :-P < 1317769097 513867 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you discovered the horror of debian package building < 1317769104 571347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even need it from debian < 1317769111 11467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the standard gcc tarballs won't build it here < 1317769115 904989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh? < 1317769116 51655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they fail on some weird issue < 1317769119 348240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1317769125 423149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why do you need gcj though < 1317769128 843853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about bits/blah.h :P < 1317769132 460286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because I need it < 1317769142 98617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for what? < 1317769152 964296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling java programs < 1317769161 478965 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and bits/* is generally internal glibc helper headers. < 1317769169 446824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone including that directly should be shot < 1317769172 512103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why I gave up on it < 1317769175 677143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gcc does that kind of shit all the time < 1317769186 288199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to be fair, it has to know executable format and the like < 1317769191 664109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use openjdk for java programs? < 1317769200 451985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I need gcj < 1317769201 769937 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just "dpkg-buildpackage -b" it and see what happens? At least on Ubuntu it wants gcc-4.5-source as a build-dependency, maybe it picks the source from there. < 1317769204 782202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits/* is mostly platform definitions < 1317769207 156816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes but still, what if it isn't gnu libc? < 1317769213 852686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then there might be no bits/ < 1317769214 372519 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1317769217 1894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That will build it with the standard options. < 1317769219 306584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, say, the list of errnos directly from the kernel < 1317769224 554810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Like I said, I need to change them, although there's so many I'm not sure which. < 1317769224 929370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the actual header files are wrappers around them < 1317769258 122041 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can edit the control files; but at least it will get you the source from somewhere, or list it as a missing build dependency. < 1317769265 882368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION elliott@katia:~$ apt-get source gcc-4.6
< 1317769303 178870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I mentioned how simple Kittens' package files are? :p < 1317769339 600903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s'/'s/ < 1317769362 685977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/gcc-4.6-4.6.1$ l < 1317769362 852599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian/ gcc-4.6.1.tar.xz < 1317769365 725816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um... < 1317769372 633231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs, tar xfs it
< 1317769376 695990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this would be trivial to figure out on arch. Sure there is the split package thing, but it is trivially obvious to understand it. Just a single PKGBUILD file with a few extra functions that define which files go in which binary package < 1317769410 318065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk/PKGBUILD?h=packages/gcc < 1317769411 140291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk/gcc.install?h=packages/gcc < 1317769411 651358 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably just edit the debian/ metafiles to twiddle whatever attributes I wanted in there, and then dpkg-buildpackage it; assuming I wanted an "otherwise compatible but slightly tweaked" build. < 1317769414 357959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk/gcc-libs.install?h=packages/gcc < 1317769417 479626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not exactly what I would call simple. < 1317769430 237037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If only I knew exactly which bits I needed to flip. < 1317769435 330253 :CakeProphet!~eris@h106.17.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317769435 712893 :CakeProphet!~eris@h106.17.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1317769435 859362 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1317769436 7342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the .install things run when installing the binary package < 1317769444 321183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you need one for each binary package < 1317769459 391563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't mean it's quite the perfect paradise of simplicity. < 1317769460 809818 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manually trying to compile it would probably lead to a not very debianized result. But w/e. < 1317769472 172127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like those undocumented options to configure. < 1317769473 597325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no it could be simpler. But it is WAY simpler than debian :P < 1317769488 758301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't care how Debianised it is, I just want it to work :P < 1317769508 847300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit, the Debian diff to gcc is THIRTY SIX MEGABYTES uncompressed. < 1317769513 812185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIRTY < 1317769514 113516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the key is that you have pkgname=('gcc' 'gcc-libs' 'gcc-fortran' 'gcc-objc' 'gcc-ada' 'gcc-go') as an array as opposed a single variable < 1317769514 309085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIX < 1317769515 465668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEGABYTES < 1317769525 889409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then you have separate package_foo < 1317769532 593557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: THIRTY < 1317769533 248602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIX < 1317769534 208399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEGABYTES < 1317769540 46967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, that is debian for you < 1317769558 321725 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to install it as a system thing, it should probably be built according to Debian rules. If not, why do you need the Debian-specific patches on it instead of using the original sources? < 1317769564 163768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is < 1317769567 463408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one zero four six six seven one < 1317769568 605474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines long. < 1317769575 310845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Because the original sources don't: built. < 1317769587 682678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-gcc/569731-bug-639752-gcc-4-5-ftbfs-usr-include-features-h-323-26-fatal-error-bits-predefs-h-no-such-file-directory.html < 1317769592 546416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I applied the patch there but it didn't help. < 1317769598 603598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: again look at arch! two patch files, less than 200 lines in total < 1317769598 750807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's the same < 1317769599 960151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1317769600 321291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/include/features.h:323:26: fatal error: bits/predefs.h: No such < 1317769600 484580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :file or directory < 1317769601 472909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :error. < 1317769605 907388 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1317769606 679811 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: I found a 1 /dev/zero < 1317769616 128019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait a second, features.h included it, not gcc directly < 1317769625 575028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your system, it might be screwed < 1317769628 766249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1317769630 186304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a gcc bug. < 1317769634 118997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus why there's a gcc patch. < 1317769639 287707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bootstrapping header location bullshit. < 1317769642 474130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1317769648 212811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wouldn't think this matters because it's java. < 1317769652 424970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any /usr/include/bits/predefs.h either btw < 1317769656 197707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT YOU'D BE WRONG BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BUILD GCJ WITHOUT --ENABLE-LANGUAGES=C++ TOO < 1317769657 801565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so apply the patch in question? < 1317769662 19668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: XD < 1317769664 693543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I applied the patch there but it didn't help. < 1317769669 282091 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1317769674 8989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apply all 36 MB? < 1317769684 927319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It creates a huge debian/ and does nothing else. < 1317769699 658260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that debian will contain all the patch files < 1317769708 687669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might think I'm not being serious with my Kitten jabs but good god Debian is driving me to it. < 1317769709 241552 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be applied from rules or rules.something < 1317769715 413818 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure you will get the patched sources to build manually either, without following the debian/rules procedure. < 1317769718 738943 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1317769729 50320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there is that too < 1317769733 385486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I know what I'll do, I'll just build a slightly older gcc. I think before they did multilib. < 1317769740 197359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR it failed in some multilib shit. < 1317769748 258524 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1317769748 423368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC 4.4.6. Yes, that sounds reassuring. < 1317769762 374487 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially considering it's gcc, of all things. It's not exactly the simplest of programs to build. < 1317769787 567879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard to build when it works, people just make it hard :P < 1317769789 826486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh kernel.org is up again < 1317769790 484009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1317769801 519592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You visit kernel.org regularly? < 1317769834 999113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what http://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/packages.git/tree/trunk/gcc_pure64.patch?h=packages/gcc does. < 1317769844 842574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just to use /lib instead of /lib64 on 64-bit systems? < 1317769860 758183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so. Arch doesn't do multilib anyway (yes that is a pain) < 1317769865 93074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gcc-4.2.0.orig" I thought Arch were ahead of the times. < 1317769867 515606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not proper multilib < 1317769869 765310 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for building < 1317769871 584469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for using < 1317769892 490380 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have gcc 4.6.1 here < 1317769896 763809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, weird, they still use that diff. < 1317769898 248530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe they apply it with -p1 < 1317769902 336506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it just hasn't broken yet. < 1317769938 712937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The prelude code was also remarkably un-buggy for code < 1317769938 897019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that had never been compiled (or even type checked) before hbc < 1317769940 92207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :came along." < 1317769954 837516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317769959 975474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear that hbc may have been the first compiler to reach a usable state < 1317769971 330174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it was not _started_ first < 1317769995 782310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./configure --enable-languages=java --disable-bootstrap --prefix=/opt/gcj --disable-shared --disable-multilib < 1317770003 774873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :“During the spring of 1990 I was eagerly awaiting the first Haskell < 1317770003 921462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION backports that to this gcc.
< 1317770003 921539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler, it was supposed to come from Glasgow and be based < 1317770003 921583 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the LML compiler. And I waited and waited. After talking to < 1317770003 921627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glasgow people at the LISP& Functional Programming conference < 1317770003 921670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Nice in late June of 1990 Staffan Truv´e and I decided that instead < 1317770006 39377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of waiting even longer we would write our own Haskell compiler < 1317770008 574570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the LML compiler. < 1317770011 83753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :“For various reasons Truv´e couldn’t help in the coding of the < 1317770013 603429 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler, so I ended up spending most of July and August coding, < 1317770015 126043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I need --enable-libgcj too. < 1317770016 131590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes in an almost trance-like state; my head filled with < 1317770018 646301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell to the brim. At the end of August I had a mostly complete < 1317770021 179307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementation of Haskell. I decided that hbc would be a < 1317770029 190098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool name for the compiler since it is Haskell Curry’s initials. (I < 1317770029 336821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :later learnt that this is the name the Glasgow people wanted for < 1317770030 874735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :their compiler too. But first come, first served.) < 1317770049 644400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Downloads/gcc-4.4.6$ ./configure --enable-languages=java --disable-bootstrap --enable-static --disable-shared --prefix=/opt/gcj --enable-libgcj < 1317770052 604062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /me reads < 1317770059 145008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(written by augustss) < 1317770066 902622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a surprise :P < 1317770088 208624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, did the glasgow people want to call it hbc after Curry too? < 1317770105 179419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it says < 1317770143 396641 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317770146 873944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no it just says they wanted hbc < 1317770156 679174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/gcov.c:1103:6: warning: jump skips variable initialization [-Wjump-misses-init] < 1317770156 887791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/gcov.c:1094:6: note: label ‘mismatch’ defined here < 1317770157 34464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/gcov.c:1069:26: note: ‘fn_n’ declared here < 1317770157 34569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/gcov.c:1103:6: warning: jump skips variable initialization [-Wjump-misses-init] < 1317770157 34614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/gcov.c:1094:6: note: label ‘mismatch’ defined here < 1317770157 730702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/gcov.c:1068:13: note: ‘ident’ declared here < 1317770159 734972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im scared < 1317770178 713426 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: false positive perhaps < 1317770191 330276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone ever fix warnings in gcc? I somehow doubt it < 1317770196 161763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's millions < 1317770216 582429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: might be because you are building using a newer gcc version? < 1317770228 530360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be, but gcc always generates tons of warnings :P < 1317770236 88805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1317770243 479658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't compile it very often < 1317770254 394902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../.././gcc/function.h:140:34: warning: using ‘call_site_record’ as both a typedef and a tag is invalid in C++ [-Wc++-compat] < 1317770260 978991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, I forgot they're letting C++ into gcc. < 1317770328 571697 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what why. < 1317770329 161844 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1317770330 112076 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad. < 1317770378 938022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1317770495 91993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :old news < 1317770495 711957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../host-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc/options.h:83: error: storage class specified for parameter ‘warn_psabi’ < 1317770495 876792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../host-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc/options.h:84: error: storage class specified for parameter ‘warn_redundant_decls’ < 1317770496 23516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../host-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc/options.h:85: error: storage class specified for parameter ‘flag_redundant’ < 1317770496 23704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../host-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc/options.h:86: error: storage class specified for parameter ‘warn_reorder’ < 1317770498 780693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../host-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc/options.h:87: error: storage class specified for parameter ‘warn_return_type’ < 1317770501 587959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../host-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc/options.h:88: error: storage class specified for parameter ‘warn_selector’ < 1317770504 754398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../host-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc/options.h:89: error: storage class specified for parameter ‘warn_sequence_point’ < 1317770507 713597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :../../../host-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/gcc/options.h:90: error: storage class specified for parameter ‘warn_shadow’ < 1317770510 682192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1317770515 853961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you boostrap a gcc of the same version? < 1317770521 896580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if not you are doing it wrong < 1317770524 167488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I --disable-bootstrapped. < 1317770532 892678 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is why it fails then < 1317770536 643483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again doing it properly < 1317770551 20575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that would just skip a pointless bootstrap given that I'm going to compile JAVA CODE >_< < 1317770553 348423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably why it fails < 1317770574 706696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you need to --enable-language=c,c++,java and enable the bootstrap probably < 1317770583 208711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It automatically enables C++. < 1317770588 658773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you select Java. < 1317770593 945462 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you need plain C too < 1317770626 753002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Downloads/gcc-4.6.1$ ./configure --enable-languages=c,java --disable-multilib --enable-static --disable-shared --prefix=/opt/gcj --enable-libgcj < 1317770627 81869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here goes nothing. < 1317770644 692321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you sure gcj works with static? < 1317770650 770984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1317770653 866540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1317770664 275881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Statically_linking_libgcj < 1317770684 458866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what thing is it that you are compiling with gcj? < 1317770690 901116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java code. < 1317770695 377650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what java code < 1317770701 563994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code, written in Java. < 1317770712 270796 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why are you avoiding a straight answer? < 1317770721 581225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More fun. < 1317770738 283498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1317770935 681203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: How far is libc++ from running WebKit? :p < 1317771073 816000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm still zeppelins in iwc? the timeline cannot have been entirely normalized. < 1317771125 408967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like LAMEalised. < 1317771153 820263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah outright killing hitler? < 1317771164 622688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Thou lies, bits/predefs.h error remains :P < 1317771178 808532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not the storage class one though? < 1317771181 608857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe --disable-multilib doesn't quite disable multilib. < 1317771192 43624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was the one I talked about < 1317771193 181063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well no, I decided to try 4.6 again, if no bootstrapping was the problem. < 1317771200 386715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: different problem < 1317771211 744561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mom is a different problem. But ok ok fine. < 1317771223 271784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suggested that the storage class thingy is /probably/ a bootstrapping problem < 1317771233 212189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not bootstrapping gcc = weird problems < 1317771251 784216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is especially painful when you are building a cross compiler < 1317771252 367127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1317771252 710666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess who can't wait for gcc to die?? This guy! < 1317771257 216192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a native one of same version then < 1317771263 76776 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317771266 785042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use clang. Write Java frontend for it < 1317771270 645621 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-205-127.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1317771272 287597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but then, everyone knows that killing hitler never works. clearly something will become messed up, now. < 1317771276 512869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Downloads/gcc-4.4.6$ ./configure --enable-languages=c,java --enable-static --disable-shared --prefix=/opt/gcj --enable-libgcj < 1317771280 348623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATTEMPT NUMBER 9999999999999 < 1317771290 266826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :over 9000 < 1317771290 831877 :CakeProphet!~eris@h79.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317771300 644924 :CakeProphet!~eris@h79.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 52 torrents is not good for my connection.. < 1317771301 707406 :CakeProphet!~eris@h79.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1317771301 855840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1317771311 701218 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IRC connection < 1317771323 90619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a torrent a day keeps your bandwidth away < 1317771352 802700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317771358 915747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and duh < 1317771359 250595 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I actually hit 1 MB/s < 1317771360 834707 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rare. < 1317771483 425034 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh usr/lib contains 6.7 GBs apparently < 1317771491 177908 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it in debug < 1317771502 650549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i love how almost all the warnings in this version are from -Wc++-compat < 1317771508 827097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317771550 854217 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would I break things if I deleted stuff in /usr/lib/debug? < 1317771566 150429 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: just uninstall the -dbg package that adds that file < 1317771572 486838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but yes it would break debugging < 1317771581 1147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Re fast compression, you might also be interested in: LZFX is a small (one C file, 200 non-comment lines) BSD-licensed library designed for very-high-speed compression of redundant data. < 1317771587 88103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/lzfx/ < 1317771604 812799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I'd only get getting like 1.3 GBs from doing that really. < 1317771606 280411 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not worth it. < 1317771623 369223 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: low on disk space but 1.3 GB not worth it? < 1317771629 310412 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither. < 1317771643 791113 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just uh... playing around and looking at my disk usage. < 1317771648 200645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1317771658 396887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe preparing for a future in which it is something I need to worry about. < 1317771683 149772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.creativereview.co.uk/cr-blog/2011/august/sainsburys-own-label-book <-- holy shit, I want to live in a world where supermarket products look this cool < 1317771697 759778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Installing Kitten should decimate your disk usage. < 1317771711 567411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Same error without bootstrap. < 1317771719 844008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe my system /is/ fucked. < 1317771728 778490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you know which packages the bits/ stuff is? < 1317771730 793039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in? < 1317771731 861656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :97% of my disk usage is in /home, imagine that. < 1317771737 717703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't seem to ... have it. < 1317771760 906247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope. Try dpkg-query to check which packages own a file from there < 1317771770 471709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr just happens to be the next biggest chunk at 6 GB < 1317771772 72573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't _have_ those files, that's the problem :P < 1317771778 102160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and the file you mentioned? I don't have it either < 1317771786 814888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: any file from there, surely you have bits/something? < 1317771796 227748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Downloads/gcc-4.4.6$ ls /usr/include/bits/ < 1317771796 394157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /usr/include/bits/: No such file or directory < 1317771802 86407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: otherwise: find /usr/include -name bits < 1317771804 905895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may be my: Problem. < 1317771807 644058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is x86-64/bits < 1317771809 666832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some such < 1317771812 617301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh: /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits < 1317771824 663457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe that's the problem.) < 1317771838 187194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: now why does it not look there I wonder < 1317771856 138325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably one of Debian's five billion patches adds that. < 1317771865 697543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1317771876 589556 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so apply the relevant patch < 1317771884 25695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ha ha ha. < 1317771885 90051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably in debian/patches or something like that < 1317771902 369136 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's actually an option to --configure < 1317771903 895124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could do grep -R bits < 1317771906 161561 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, configure < 1317771907 433657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What is? < 1317771923 828642 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The bit that makes it install bits in /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ < 1317771931 292735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://sprunge.us/SRMU Pick one < 1317771937 461649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah. How do I get gcc to look there for bits/ headers? < 1317771941 626754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's failing because, I think, it can't find them. < 1317771944 409452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When compiling gcc. < 1317771951 123054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all on one line? Not going to look at that < 1317771963 273923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"diod is an I/O forwarding server that implements a variant of the 9P protocol from the Plan 9 operating system. When paired with a modern version of the v9fs Linux 9P client, diod allows a file system to be exported over a TCP/IP network in a manner similar to NFS." < 1317771968 477282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG MAYBE MY PERFECT IRC CLIENT CAN COME TRUE < 1317771973 355135 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.cache is 1.3 GB apparently < 1317772128 577525 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fek, I can't find it. < 1317772169 902248 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h105.17.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317772202 528821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well have fun with debian < 1317772215 332707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always had issues building gcc on debian < 1317772220 454221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't do it any more < 1317772223 629596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always worked for me up until now :P < 1317772241 762196 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1317772253 400220 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, GCC has opted to do multiarch in the way most likely to need patches. < 1317772278 850057 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, Debian. < 1317772285 260350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I just... < 1317772288 58944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s ... /usr/include/bits? < 1317772292 549456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will that break everything? < 1317772312 417959 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I seem to already have such a symlink. < 1317772316 103843 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-219.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, "no". < 1317772320 462949 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1317772395 253940 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h105.17.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm feeling a little bouncy < 1317772478 907210 :CakeProphet!~eris@h63.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1317772479 204244 :CakeProphet!~eris@h63.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1317772479 350931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1317772511 851653 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1317772556 982950 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turned on a speed limit
< 1317772591 956443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Downloads/gcc-4.6.1$ sudo ln -s /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/sys /usr/include < 1317772592 119099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln: creating symbolic link `/usr/include/sys': File exists < 1317772592 291284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@katia:~/Downloads/gcc-4.6.1$ ls /usr/include/sys < 1317772592 440529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :asoundlib.h < 1317772592 943318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Rage. < 1317772665 839937 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h105.17.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1317772705 840430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Can I just... symlink every relevant header?