< 1319760065 966149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :choose
< 1319760154 899326 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-17-113.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319760276 73188 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aurget or pacaur? packer's linked webpage isn't as tidy as either of theirs so im disqualify it
< 1319760308 538826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, https://github.com/bruenig/packer?
< 1319760388 990366 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah; it is slightly less tidy
< 1319760402 501500 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I think it is???
< 1319760405 445349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I don't like pacaur much because it has its own non-pacman syntax
< 1319760411 787307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it supports the pacman ones too
< 1319760419 82951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough to make actually educated guesses ;_;
< 1319760430 28449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any other way to represent equality of numbers in the type system?
< 1319760433 871295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aurget is tempting especially since it avoids wrapping pacman operations
< 1319760451 188228 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that's nice
< 1319760460 772147 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of using bijective function but there is no such type that can only be bijective function.
< 1319760503 106093 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :equality of what numbers
< 1319760677 343596 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you get these numbers? what is their home
< 1319760679 595007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example,  (Maybe (Maybe Zero), Maybe (Maybe (Maybe Zero)))  meaning 2 times 3 make 6 so you can have a bijective function between that and the  Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe Zero)))))  for six
< 1319760879 782403 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-66.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1319760907 241297 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wjat?
< 1319761023 144655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: aurget seems good
< 1319761042 781531 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get aurget next time i need to aur i guess
< 1319761069 903884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i'm glad the aur packages for haskell stuff are good... they build profiling and docmentation
< 1319761072 91721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, dynamic too but w/e
< 1319761110 478349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't gotten much aur haskell stuff...afraid of conflicts with cabal stuff...nightmares...
< 1319761129 968481 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't gotten much/i forget if i've gotten any
< 1319761145 247073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh i am literally just using only aur
< 1319761150 182851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not cabal-install
< 1319761150 805376 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1319761158 370499 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens when you need something that's not on aur
< 1319761165 791745 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual instl?
< 1319761185 937118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?K=arch-haskell&SeB=m
< 1319761189 713853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's 1815 packages
< 1319761195 753583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that's not on there is probably not worth using
< 1319761198 177115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else I can just package it myself
< 1319761199 868957 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h,mm
< 1319761201 354824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's an automated tool
< 1319761208 176802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to turn cabal -> pkgbuild
< 1319761269 629442 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'll try that next time i start oveR??
< 1319761585 193846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah, I'm practically sure all these are generated
< 1319761587 211970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they have things like
< 1319761591 305856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :# custom variables
< 1319761591 437487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_hkgname=cpphs
< 1319761591 509775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_licensefile=LICENCE-LGPL
< 1319761596 563520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all their build/package functions look the same
< 1319761627 562246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yep: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=17471
< 1319761629 439691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal2arch
< 1319761643 337498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome
< 1319761658 124779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could keep me with arch indefinitely, if it's a reliable way to avoid cabal-install being a pile of crap
< 1319761918 544480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I still need cabal to handle actually building my stuff though
< 1319761921 946890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's much less painful
< 1319761928 663279 :evincar!~jon@acd41302879.wireless.rit.edu QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1319762006 8876 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would your D&D character do in case of the following:
< 1319762013 275760 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You find some money that you think is money but everyone else thinks is just all hallucination.
< 1319762018 969704 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no dnd character
< 1319762021 52813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You find some money that you think is just hallucination but everyone else thinks is real money.
< 1319762035 184055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote game where
< 1319762037 637426 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :50) <GregorR-L> If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... <GregorR-L> I'd call it jabbear. \ 582) <monqy> game where you flip a coin but it's really really big
< 1319762037 863955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* The king is going bald!
< 1319762045 489182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :second one to be precise
< 1319762065 475620 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Your deity has been destroyed.
< 1319762073 326057 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Along the road, you encounter a kobold that looks injured - he's unconcious, bleeding slowly from an arrow wound.
< 1319762082 810538 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Someone offers a party member a job you are clearly unqualified for.
< 1319762091 925924 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You find a magic scroll with strange effects that matches nothing you have ever seen before. (Using any Identify spell and such doesn't help)
< 1319762101 923493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: should i use String or Text or mix both help
< 1319762119 448722 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing and whats text ;_;
< 1319762134 135360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what Text is..........
< 1319762154 564247 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of
< 1319762177 271242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/text.........
< 1319762193 791414 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that thing
< 1319762211 983577 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know every trade off
< 1319762219 791967 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used it so i can;t judge preteynes either
< 1319762295 3380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't really want to just use String
< 1319762298 909143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixing String and Text is ugly BUT
< 1319762303 283694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means you can avoid OverloadedStrings
< 1319762315 949566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tag names and the like become Strings but actual body text becomes Text
< 1319762323 308107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'll want to pattern-match over the former much more than the latter
< 1319762350 743871 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ugly is mixing? maybe the best chocie?
< 1319762432 987033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that ugly, but it just Feels a bit Wrong
< 1319762438 55281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since I get the data from the C lib in UTF-8
< 1319762446 22678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need a UTF-8 -> String decoder as well as UTF-8 -> Text
< 1319762449 530115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might even mean another dependency
< 1319762535 291364 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh gross
< 1319762626 420488 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sh why isn't there a hobbit pun in iwc today
< 1319762647 591320 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well it _is_ (prolonged) guest week, but still...)
< 1319762886 397813 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t many
< 1319762887 147946 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a. (Alternative f) => f a -> f [a]
< 1319763073 535909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is monad transformer that makes a new monad from a monad, but what is it called when it makes a monad from a comonad instead?
< 1319763088 624440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21 of 21] Compiling Language.Haskell.Exts ( src/Language/Haskell/Exts.hs, dist/build/Language/Haskell/Exts.dyn_o )
< 1319763088 795617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFD: reopening dist/build/libHShaskell-src-exts-1.11.1.a(Exts__22.o): No such file or directory
< 1319763088 868389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1319763091 752891 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A comonad cotransformer
< 1319763093 384497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"weird"
< 1319763103 113306 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't comonad transformers go comonad->comonad????
< 1319763113 847025 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I thinking of something else
< 1319763121 479644 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: presumably
< 1319763123 871761 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I missed the co
< 1319763126 869111 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cotransformer
< 1319763127 158620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is getting painful
< 1319763130 613001 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cotransformer makes sense
< 1319763132 909780 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessssssss
< 1319763148 184803 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking cotransformer too then looked and wow it was there
< 1319763157 851286 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crys in not reading things properly shame
< 1319763416 121048 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are some examples of comonad cotransformers?
< 1319763443 842938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-195-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319763468 970388 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-224-36.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1319763600 389869 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319763901 83789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1319763903 105178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id <|> id
< 1319763904 403664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a)
< 1319763904 818640 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from a use of `...
< 1319763915 403656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (fromLeft <|> fromRight)
< 1319763916 622571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fromLeft'
< 1319763916 988839 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `fromRight'
< 1319763922 871506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no
< 1319763923 218128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1319763934 733424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((?f :: a -> Maybe b) <|> (?g :: a -> Maybe b))
< 1319763936 48558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Could not deduce (?f::a -> Maybe b) from the context ()
< 1319763936 238797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      arising from a use of implicit parameter `?f'
< 1319763936 310953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :                   at <interactive>:1:2-3
< 1319763939 569325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh
< 1319763939 641717 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (id <|> undefined) 2
< 1319763940 418876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (Control.Applicative.Alternative ((->) a))
< 1319763940 591296 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from ...
< 1319763946 868277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ((undefined :: a -> Maybe b) <|> (undefined :: a -> Maybe b))
< 1319763948 267565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Alternative ((->) a)) => a -> Maybe b
< 1319763954 851766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, there's no instance
< 1319763955 666877 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic
< 1319763959 172128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was thinking goNext = goRight <|> goUp
< 1319763972 306653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait
< 1319763973 344776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually
< 1319763980 212828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goNext = goRight <|> (goUp >>= goNext)
< 1319763989 82366 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Just <|> undefined) 2
< 1319763989 706876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  No instance for (Control.Applicative.Alternative ((->) a))
< 1319763989 891643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :   arising from ...
< 1319763990 188590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goNext x = goRight x <|> (goUp x >>= goNext)
< 1319763990 835203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad
< 1319764050 384877 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (id <|> id)
< 1319764051 257862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Alternative ((->) a)) => a -> a
< 1319764081 396961 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're forgetting some goDown there
< 1319764091 830536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm
< 1319764097 850106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the correct implementation?
< 1319764120 100849 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well depends whether you want to do the parent node first or last
< 1319764146 95986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: first, I would think; although last would be good to have too; but doesn't last result in an infinite loop?
< 1319764160 661834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you transform a child into something that causes the parent node to match ... hmm, no
< 1319764165 321305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i guess both would be nice
< 1319764179 174149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: parent node first sounds like it needs less satck
< 1319764184 211463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/satck/stack/
< 1319764350 807246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 2 of 21] Compiling Language.Haskell.Exts.Annotated.Syntax ( src/Language/Haskell/Exts/Annotated/Syntax.hs, dist/build/Language/Haskell/Exts/Annotated/Syntax.dyn_o )
< 1319764352 100727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sloooow
< 1319764358 99677 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :goDown x <|> goRight x <|> (goUp >>= goNext)
< 1319764431 342951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is goDown?
< 1319764433 511693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go down to first child?
< 1319764438 311204 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1319764480 982568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty
< 1319764484 953377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the other way around?
< 1319764583 154709 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(goRight x >>= goBottom) <|> goUp x
< 1319764594 171950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#let alignment t = "%lu", (unsigned long)offsetof(struct {char x__; t (y__); }, y__)
< 1319764597 508145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does that _work_?
< 1319764601 890481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :any language lawyers? :P
< 1319764607 855797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: goBottom?
< 1319764625 654347 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :goBottom x = (goDown x >>= goBottom) <|> pure x
< 1319764643 410923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1319764663 566684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are nice. feels like we've cracked it
< 1319764669 394348 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that recursion is what i wanted many for, btw, but it doesn't fit
< 1319764720 69735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1319764732 5078 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm?
< 1319764767 879949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :re: many
< 1319764917 693468 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a kind of muntil
< 1319764933 612511 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle muntil
< 1319764933 859689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found
< 1319764937 799861 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle untilM
< 1319764937 998002 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found
< 1319764955 341079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/monad-loops/0.3.0.2/doc/html/Control-Monad-Loops.html
< 1319764961 179388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :untilM :: Monad m => m a -> m Bool -> m [a]Source
< 1319764961 314944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Execute an action repeatedly until the condition expression returns True. The condition is evaluated after the loop body. Collects results into a list. Parameters are arranged for infix usage. eg. do {...} untilM_ ...
< 1319764975 850109 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha
< 1319764980 574343 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite it, either
< 1319764986 549099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well there's whileM
< 1319764995 885107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whileM :: Monad m => m Bool -> m a -> m [a]Source
< 1319764996 19671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Execute an action repeatedly as long as the given boolean expression returns True. The condition is evaluated before the loop body. Collects the results into a list.
< 1319765003 252974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and whileM' does it for any MonadPlus
< 1319765007 977818 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we _don't_ want a list :P
< 1319765030 732647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus whileM'
< 1319765031 195250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependencies	base (<4) or
< 1319765031 353285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :base (≥4)
< 1319765035 509459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good dependencies
< 1319765098 3975 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we need something with (a -> m a) argument
< 1319765165 380187 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the untilM's and iterateUntil seem to think it's enought to just do an action.
< 1319765183 324983 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which _technically_ is correct since you can use a StateT wrapping
< 1319765187 171638 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think
< 1319765201 729787 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*enough
< 1319765292 279658 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t many . StateT
< 1319765293 154774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a s (m :: * -> *). (Functor m, MonadPlus m) => (s -> m (a, s)) -> StateT s m [a]
< 1319765319 153150 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well many also collects, hmph
< 1319765338 920211 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t many_
< 1319765339 751298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `many_'
< 1319765343 55193 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1319765682 478992 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this norwegian non-profit organization SOS Rasisme was apparently taken over by communists, who inflated their membership numbers by something like 900% to receive 9.5 million NOK in state support.
< 1319765867 303103 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=no&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.no&sl=no&tl=en&u=http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/10/27/nyheter/innenriks/sos_rasisme/medlemsjuks/lnu/18790279/&usg=ALkJrhjuxo3KtieUzuxMTVuJAptIb0NPfw
< 1319765882 457265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i thought you meant in the past.
< 1319765896 473051 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, last 10 years :P
< 1319765919 837928 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's definitely in the past _now_
< 1319767071 374923 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319767074 59840 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-195-87.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1319767140 310971 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319768189 994553 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of any comonad cotransformers or monad cotransformers? Is there anything else even more strangely?
< 1319768357 493590 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1319768791 273976 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://comonad.com/reader/2011/monads-from-comonads/ seems relevant
< 1319768902 38937 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes I saw that too.
< 1319768921 735728 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a whole series of posts
< 1319769094 118228 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319769378 150283 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea for bijective function syntax would be like:   bijection { (x, y) -> (y, x); }   similar to case but with various restrictions.
< 1319769631 546400 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude
< 1319770098 238314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I bet you know ALL ABOUT offsetof.
< 1319770212 113894 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vladimir offsetof, famous russian book printer
< 1319770679 35634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t replicateM
< 1319770680 414833 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m [a]
< 1319770696 420242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t peekElemOff
< 1319770697 784883 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `peekElemOff'
< 1319770699 933591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle peekElemOff
< 1319770700 704272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Storable peekElemOff :: Storable a => Ptr a -> Int -> IO a
< 1319770772 100465 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boris peekelemoff, notorious st. petersburg voyeurist
< 1319770893 717128 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1319770929 786280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D
< 1319771285 192838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate ffis
< 1319771324 574245 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign functions coming here and stealing our jobs
< 1319771594 246943 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319771869 26881 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319771896 972875 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319772170 974294 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319772302 574363 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319772362 394036 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319772575 159048 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1319773262 308725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oerjan what happens if i work on something else to distract me from code problems but it's broken too????
< 1319773592 437005 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bugs all the way down
< 1319773909 495253 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was thinking about making number theory with Haskell type system, I think that (Not x) is like the C (!x) for natural numbers x, like (x -> Zero) or $0^x$ is that correct?
< 1319774972 8232 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mozilla and Bing are pleased to make available Firefox with Bing, a customized version of Firefox that sets Bing as the default search engine in the search box and AwesomeBar and makes Bing.com the default home page."
< 1319775003 572306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant download
< 1319775031 575874 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell is awfully chilly today.
< 1319775050 421133 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Mozilla have to do anything about that? Bing could do it by themself, isn't it?
< 1319775064 753047 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Most definitely.
< 1319775177 256906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: because this way microsoft give money to mozilla
< 1319775234 48121 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1319775884 7150 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319776872 146294 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do you know about Local Sidereal Time?
< 1319777230 835778 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much; there is no time but UTC.
< 1319777490 845513 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is other time specifications, though.
< 1319777501 644638 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few of them worthwhile.
< 1319777536 439895 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to depend what you do, such as solar time or whatever
< 1319777634 298526 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESTROY THE DAY STAR
< 1319777634 973327 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1319777642 920051 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :UT1, the Unreal Tournament time.
< 1319777693 265207 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319779234 304479 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :IAmTheOnePercent
< 1319779279 959879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astrolog supports equatorial mode but its implementation does not work with all charts that Astrolog can make; and as far as I know there is no "Local Sidereal Time" object that can be plotted in equatorial mode. The documentation suggests using sidereal zodiac and hours/minutes display of angles, but tropical/sidereal mode appears to be ignored in equatorial mode
< 1319779348 65930 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This will display planetary positions relative to the Earth's equator instead of the ecliptic i.e. Earth's orbit. This is the way more commonly used in astronomy, and results in real right ascension notation, especially when combined with the -s sidereal zodiac and -sh hours and minutes display format. This switch makes the declination values in the standard -v listing also relative to the
< 1319779376 957602 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :equator, instead of the ecliptic latitude displayed by default, where "Declination" will be printed at the head of the column instead of "Latitude". (Without this the only way to get such information is from the zenith latitudes in the -L astro-graph chart which show the same thing.) Note that this setting isn't fully integrated with allof Astrolog's charts; specifically it will distort the values in the
< 1319779390 590133 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Z local horizon, -S orbit, and -L astro-graph charts which assume ecliptic positions, and hence -sr shouldn't be combined with these options."
< 1319779433 210284 :IAmTheOnePercent!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1319779545 3024 :DCliche_!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319779774 388615 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1319780409 892609 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the documentation seems to be wrong; selecting sidereal zodiac does not affect equatorial mode.
< 1319780695 358466 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://perldoc.perl.org/perlmod.html#BEGIN%2c-UNITCHECK%2c-CHECK%2c-INIT-and-END
< 1319780704 354838 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Awkawkawkawkawkawk section of Perl.
< 1319780957 878895 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319781137 194060 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-250.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1319781296 346189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it seems the 10th Cusp object might plot the local sidereal time
< 1319781329 99840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, in equatorial mode)
< 1319781337 390767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why are you using Astrolog, anyway?
< 1319781575 617498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: /nick elliott, i wanna try something
< 1319781580 320819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :qqqq
< 1319781631 17437 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should make my own program instead so that I can include whatever improvements and licensed under GNU GPL (in fact, the Swiss Ephemeris requires it; Astrolog does not use Swiss Ephemeris and is licensed for non-commercial use only); there are some features of Astrolog which I wish to purposely omit (such as interpretation mode), althhough a separate program could use its output to produce something similar.
< 1319781703 110213 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1319781915 273815 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK someone else take my nick.
< 1319781923 217692 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy you do it.
< 1319782152 933233 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1319782160 327960 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to kill me ;_;
< 1319782235 953662 :elliott!~nobody@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319782249 82367 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can try something.
< 1319782264 280287 :elliott!~nobody@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com NICK :Guest58077
< 1319782299 942827 :Guest58077!~nobody@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319782324 942251 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1319782326 553219 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot
< 1319782327 562383 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1319782332 619312 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i apologise zzo38
< 1319782337 211655 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not see it :(
< 1319782429 3704 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you try it on another connection from your computer?
< 1319782456 885614 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right that would work
< 1319782513 100468 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.243.37 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319782515 672934 :qqqq!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319782527 610037 :qqqq!~elliott@95.149.243.37 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319782527 610173 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.243.37 QUIT :Disconnected by services
< 1319782534 255627 :qqqq!~elliott@95.149.243.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott :Nickname is already in use.
< 1319782535 174299 :qqqq!~elliott@95.149.243.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* nicksev :No such nick/channel
< 1319782537 220208 :qqqq!~elliott@95.149.243.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-NickServ- elliott has been ghosted.
< 1319782539 321005 :qqqq!~elliott@95.149.243.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough :P
< 1319782583 801265 :qqqq!~elliott@95.149.243.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i guess xchat has no way to wait a bit
< 1319783129 482013 :qqqq!~elliott@95.149.243.37 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle try
< 1319783136 462133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception try :: Exception e => IO a -> IO (Either e a)
< 1319783136 683362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException try :: IO a -> IO (Either Exception a)
< 1319783136 755718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base try :: Exception e => IO a -> IO (Either e a)
< 1319783174 930656 :qqqq!~elliott@95.149.243.37 NICK :elliott
< 1319783177 420620 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.243.37 QUIT :Changing host
< 1319783177 492750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319783211 65811 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Leeds?
< 1319783224 412086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leeds is a place, yes.
< 1319783250 152952 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A place you're in?
< 1319783297 179853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. (Is this going to be followed by another placename until I say yes?)
< 1319783344 613842 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319783345 227018 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe.
< 1319783350 896799 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Langtoft?
< 1319783395 478131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually live in a little cardboard box underneath Sealand.
< 1319783406 222356 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1319783428 807556 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to <elliott> I am in fact already in California. </elliott>?
< 1319783439 200138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are all, in some sense, already in California.
< 1319783449 208348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I have no idea why I said that. Nor do I remember saying it.
< 1319783468 99280 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We were talking about how great the cheese in the US was, or something.
< 1319783472 157954 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by great I mean terrible.
< 1319783477 439158 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by cheese I mean something I don't remember.
< 1319783515 558558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: nttpf
< 1319783518 630776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you did
< 1319783565 13606 :DCliche_!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence.
< 1319784136 741336 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: FunPtrs are aptly named.
< 1319784141 858211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1319784147 25712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s/s./
< 1319784157 555306 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you mean s/$/./
< 1319784171 763683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1319784176 213181 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, get ready for a lot of fun.
< 1319784219 223035 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/(.)(.)(.)/\2\3\1/g
< 1319784241 83180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do _you_ know whether exceptions are meant to work from Haskell code called by C via a FunPtr?
< 1319784266 318455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, hanging for like ten seconds, spiking in CPU or RAM use (not sure which) and then getting killed by the OS is quite a dramatic result.
< 1319784331 235858 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, that sounds exciting.
< 1319784369 307552 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of excitement, it's 02:45 and I should go to sleep.
< 1319784369 867433 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you want to do is to have some FunPtr.
< 1319784428 761688 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, I don't know.)
< 1319784486 684513 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Sealand follow the UK timezone/DST rules?
< 1319784500 417872 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1319784594 188371 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering how hard would it be the convince Finland to invert our timezone from UTC+2 (+3 in the summer) to UTC-10; I mean, then we could *really* be the "land of the midnight sun".
< 1319784801 14265 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of timezone you'll still be screwed when the polar night starts
< 1319784915 557921 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but it'd still improve our midnight-sun-% by a whole lot.
< 1319784952 594820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle Either SomeException a -> IO a
< 1319784952 965464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Typeable typeOf2 :: Typeable2 t => t a b -> TypeRep
< 1319784953 156774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude either :: (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> Either a b -> c
< 1319784953 228792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Either either :: (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> Either a b -> c
< 1319785066 44671 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, except, isn't "midnight" really when the sun is on the other side of the earth, rather than some time stamp?
< 1319785367 291543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if you're a pedantic asshole, sure
< 1319785432 790068 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319785440 489968 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to communicate with anyone else in the world, who subscribes to this standardized system of time so that communication and commerce isn't a complete nightmare, then no.
< 1319785469 731336 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I want to communicate with anyone else?
< 1319785784 548240 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also this bridge has got a hump in it: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/15358461.jpg
< 1319785793 927139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is a _very_ difficult problem due to laziness :)
< 1319785879 241695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand
< 1319785886 412435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get why it's even happening if laziness
< 1319785962 763814 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1319786086 969797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish df were open source.
< 1319786109 904364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it half is
< 1319786113 3608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1319786117 320281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :source-available
< 1319786128 17939 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeha not the half I want.
< 1319786347 144517 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lifehacker.com/5854053/how-to-stop-caring-about-trolls-and-get-on-with-your-life
< 1319786350 422657 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :,,,,
< 1319786350 704400 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;;;
< 1319786366 182164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst troll ever.
< 1319786693 281145 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319786896 186614 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill
< 1319786917 642587 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, maybe the Indiana General Assembly collectively are the worst trolls.
< 1319787013 613208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesss, one IORef and a bunch of code later, it works
< 1319787082 158371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't IORefs like communing with demons or something?
< 1319787094 727326 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the angry demons of mutability or... something.
< 1319787399 201616 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they are more like angry demons of mutability put in little cages for safer handling
< 1319787476 650078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/YVVQ
< 1319787479 274555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code is quite messy.
< 1319787601 10218 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good hubbubLocks
< 1319787662 351207 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319787663 586312 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 QUIT :Changing host
< 1319787663 658486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319787700 437764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523
< 1319787768 242304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott
< 1319787782 287465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just woken up, or not yet gone to sleep?
< 1319787817 497087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure myself
< 1319787821 601874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's the latter
< 1319787938 288934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle Bool -> m a -> Maybe a
< 1319787938 679225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception assert :: Bool -> a -> a
< 1319787938 848032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException assert :: Bool -> a -> a
< 1319787938 920100 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base assert :: Bool -> a -> a
< 1319787941 226446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle Bool -> m a -> m (Maybe a)
< 1319787941 487397 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases orElse :: Maybe a -> Maybe a -> Maybe a
< 1319787941 632086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad unless :: Monad m => Bool -> m () -> m ()
< 1319787941 704377 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad when :: Monad m => Bool -> m () -> m ()
< 1319788112 110451 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \b mx -> if b then return Nothing else liftM Just mx
< 1319788112 399164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. fmap Just) . flip if' (return Nothing)
< 1319788520 261129 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Bool -> a -> Maybe a
< 1319788521 83025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception assert :: Bool -> a -> a
< 1319788521 155391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException assert :: Bool -> a -> a
< 1319788521 234347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Exception.Base assert :: Bool -> a -> a
< 1319788563 451077 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \b x -> guard b >> Just x
< 1319788563 789329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. Just) . (>>) . guard
< 1319788693 822054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Can one forcibly take ownership of an AUR package from someone else; I want to update the C-INTERCAL package without having to talk to Vorpal
< 1319788721 163872 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ask some kind of adminy person, probably
< 1319788729 156682 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise he needs to disown it
< 1319788733 14806 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I understand correctly
< 1319788787 315649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, I guess I can tolerate momentary hostile contact :D
< 1319788824 515769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fuck, someone who isn't Vorpal uploaded a cfunge package
< 1319788834 334144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then 3 people voted for it??
< 1319788849 679259 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may've voted for it
< 1319788862 45337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said three, not one :P
< 1319788862 279119 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's outdated by now though
< 1319788874 121164 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he probably did and if I did that makes two
< 1319788879 787468 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he = submitter)
< 1319788884 34954 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uploader)
< 1319788885 216482 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whatevre)
< 1319788886 792907 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(er)
< 1319788886 965649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Vorpal did too then
< 1319788888 138767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiine
< 1319788889 635018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers making a package for CCBI, realises it's D, gives up on idea immediately.
< 1319788903 251140 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make ccbi-bin
< 1319788915 664637 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a wise man once said: Gross
< 1319788924 146548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, ldc is orphaned and out of date
< 1319788931 163248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the D compiler of the year
< 1319788933 39086 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could depend on ldc-bin and company, it should build without too much trouble
< 1319788938 437821 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno
< 1319788943 40843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BeholdMyGlory: Hey, stop maintaining ldc-hg, it's weird seeing names from here elsewhere
< 1319788944 849672 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how alive D1 is in general
< 1319788952 133180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought CCBI2 was D2.
< 1319788956 191632 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not
< 1319788978 600401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it start being D2 when mushspace comes out? :p
< 1319788979 603834 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might make it D2 what with GDC going into GCC and all
< 1319788992 89036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should also make it: not depend on Tango.
< 1319788999 769751 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the main problem :-P
< 1319789011 255027 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately: Tango is the only good library.
< 1319789023 347227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's also completely unmaintained to my knowledge :P
< 1319789031 129188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could: use a real programming language.
< 1319789043 541887 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's maintained
< 1319789047 662664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Real" here is defined as literally anything but D how do you even end up with multiple stdlibs.
< 1319789055 334159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: pikhq said not a few weeks ago
< 1319789058 917674 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has multiple stdlibs
< 1319789062 30189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cursory glance at their website supported this
< 1319789068 143368 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are changesets from 4 days ago in the timeline
< 1319789070 772036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah but they all follow the same rough standard
< 1319789086 12552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference between what you're about to say and D is that people actually use both Phobos and Tango
< 1319789089 665000 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that D has no standard
< 1319789124 757092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in conclusion
< 1319789127 239466 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I could do the metaprogramming shit conveniently I might move CCBI to C++11, but I doubt I can
< 1319789132 666487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll package CCBI if you completely rewrite it
< 1319789144 520149 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could package it myself if I cared :-P
< 1319789144 592512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OK, you picked possibly the only worse language to move it to.
< 1319789152 376447 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Smallest effort
< 1319789177 454068 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like okay sure I could use a Lisp but that's a full rewrite, of every single line
< 1319789177 766378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think you probably could pull the metaprogramming shit off; my qualifications backing this statement: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#C.2B.2B_templates
< 1319789193 431083 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but "conveniently"
< 1319789211 270397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should rewrite it in Haskell, and call it shiro.
< 1319789218 804724 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to, because it would be slow.
< 1319789223 703357 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also a 100% rewrite.
< 1319789231 361276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fuck you it is going to be so fast.
< 1319789290 604029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, dmd is in community
< 1319789295 164690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does CCBI work with dmd/tango
< 1319789299 675177 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but DMD sucks
< 1319789305 698282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define sucks
< 1319789314 611020 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be slower than shiro
< 1319789320 173177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow
< 1319789326 899108 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay maybe not that slow but still)
< 1319789333 375069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heyyy :P
< 1319789333 452887 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used it in a while, dunno
< 1319789338 615005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shiro is faster than Language::Befunge.
< 1319789339 593477 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also not build due to bugs
< 1319789343 858507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By lots.
< 1319789345 399395 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not an achievement ;-)
< 1319789352 9913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S PROBABLY EVEN FASTER THAN PYFUNGE.
< 1319789367 302436 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, beating interpreted languages
< 1319789371 666301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I need to do is restructure it so it doesn't use the abominally stupid "StateT of globals over IO" approach.
< 1319789381 476212 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the better approach
< 1319789391 318560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends
< 1319789418 587815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think IORefs would buy me quite a bit in Shiro though
< 1319789424 566794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I should factor a lot of it out to be completely pure and take params
< 1319789429 588146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than just doing read-only shit on the state
< 1319789478 358067 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle StateT s m a -> ReaderT s m a
< 1319789478 580995 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found
< 1319789493 506716 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle ReaderT s m a -> StateT s m a
< 1319789493 727270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found
< 1319789494 739114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, no
< 1319789496 917398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is it faster than Perl?
< 1319789501 439533 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the true test.
< 1319789507 702269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That still has the problem that it takes EVERY SINGLE GLOBAL
< 1319789512 37237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than, e.g.: what it needs.
< 1319789523 105055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Language::Befunge is Perl.
< 1319789548 425744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I guess I should have pressed page up. :P
< 1319789564 561096 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But hey re. C++11 at least people could build it
< 1319789582 671838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Unless they're on e.g. Debian stable (I think)
< 1319789592 989431 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, the 11 makes it harder
< 1319789595 687865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc (GCC) 4.6.1 20110819 (prerelease)
< 1319789595 789106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prerelease? Seriously guys?
< 1319789609 589573 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just said 11 because it's likely that such will be useful :-P
< 1319789617 532089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch's goal in life is to always be at the absolute latest repository commit of every package.
< 1319789624 955347 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really
< 1319789632 62908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, better: Latest set of working files on the most active developer's computer.
< 1319789643 252316 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably a prerelease build that's equivalent to the release
< 1319789650 173383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut up with your facts and logic.
< 1319789653 737895 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, 4.6.2 is out
< 1319789660 568783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, so is GHC 7.2.1
< 1319789664 384824 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1319789689 978621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really complain though because AUR is about 34895734985793485 times better than cabal-install.
< 1319789702 822916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I am pretty much unreasonably happy as far as Haskell goes.
< 1319789726 925269 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran into problems regarding outdated packages so switched back to cabal-installing everything
< 1319789734 177946 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUR updates too slowly :-p
< 1319789736 464851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ldc 1574-1
< 1319789736 545633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last Updated: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:28:36 +0000
< 1319789736 618313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First Submitted: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:07:57 +0000
< 1319789736 618470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noice
< 1319789744 68736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could use cabal2arch yourself
< 1319789750 506885 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What a pain
< 1319789767 956156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Meh, just a matter of writing a pacabalman script :P
< 1319789799 265585 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What a pain
< 1319789804 519233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Okay, so will CCBI build with an LDC from hg and a tango from SVN
< 1319789814 837044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh for fuck's sake BeholdMyGlory
< 1319789816 703515 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No not a tango from SVN probably
< 1319789819 51552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't updated them in literally a year
< 1319789841 402151 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You’ll need Tango—version 0.99.9 or later. But not too late: there are breaking changes in trunk which CCBI doesn’t support building against."
< 1319789857 12077 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi * 10000000000000000000000000
< 1319789858 370007 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  3.1415926535897935e25
< 1319789867 338437 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasps! :o
< 1319789881 41081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Just...
< 1319789889 460829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Just port it to something reasonable already :P
< 1319789901 651754 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not unreasonable, that's the latest Tango release :-P
< 1319789912 890523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny because you just claimed D is reasonable!
< 1319789927 111999 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got less reasonable over time
< 1319789954 748918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was having problems with D toolchains in 2007, 2008
< 1319789964 898513 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're you
< 1319789989 12855 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You tend to find problems in everything :-P
< 1319790004 735079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, problems like "I literally can't get a compiler working"
< 1319790010 58299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apart from this ancient gdc"
< 1319790028 862229 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because you're you
< 1319790050 403391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, everyone else is just suffering under a collective delusion that D has ever worked
< 1319790080 683125 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.. don't think I have that delusion
< 1319790091 196164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most people have the collective delusion that D is not a thing.
< 1319790101 638522 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they don't know very much about it. :P
< 1319790122 971505 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Feel free to suggest good targets for porting
< 1319790142 968293 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: anything slower than C is not good)
< 1319790158 201474 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortran!
< 1319790168 651092 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lacks metaprogramming
< 1319790177 283906 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortran with CPP
< 1319790182 479129 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPP isn't metaprogramming
< 1319790200 499027 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're just not inventive enough. :P
< 1319790207 688113 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I don't want to be
< 1319790226 412503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: C
< 1319790233 535326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is "slower than C", anyway
< 1319790234 532939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is D
< 1319790239 683703 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C lacks metaprogramming
< 1319790243 180321 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, not really
< 1319790253 81490 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're within margin of error at worst ;-P
< 1319790276 695787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has metaprogramming
< 1319790291 780806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your uses of metaprogramming are mostly superfluous, at least the ones I saw :P
< 1319790308 388208 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java.
< 1319790314 153664 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C doesn't have metaprogramming :-P
< 1319790326 684071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp
< 1319790328 65237 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Note: anything that doesn't create native binaries is not good
< 1319790331 875681 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPP isn't metaprogramming
< 1319790341 497470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is; also, gcj
< 1319790352 644780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ada.
< 1319790367 81046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Ada.
< 1319790373 724787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go with Ada.
< 1319790411 222846 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I don't wanna learn Ada
< 1319790429 905132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATS
< 1319790437 791675 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody wants to learn ATS
< 1319790460 207416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess you're stuck with C with CPP
< 1319790468 11784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no one would want to use D.
< 1319790495 463664 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is much better, with its templates
< 1319790503 393123 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the kind of metaprogramming I do
< 1319790506 742234 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319790518 71720 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know if it's sufficient, at least without much pain
< 1319790540 81114 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pain is the only concept that's relevant to C++
< 1319790568 391691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Deewiant> Nobody wants to learn ATS
< 1319790569 231831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do
< 1319790657 66196 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1319790713 590619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you could use GHC as it can approach speeds that are reasonably close to the average C program.
< 1319790716 588415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just become a badass
< 1319790724 579604 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then your speed addiction will be solved
< 1319790763 221842 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1319791082 599832 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wish the great language shootout had data on LuaJIT.
< 1319791129 662057 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://attractivechaos.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/amazed-by-luajit/  "I have kept looking for a replacement of Perl for several years. Now I have found it: Lua, although the decision is not made based on the language itself, but on its implementation LuaJIT."
< 1319791134 975536 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops reading in disgust.
< 1319791166 649667 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no replacement for Perl. Well, maybe Perl 6.
< 1319791244 471451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I need a nicer name for this whiz-bang high-level library than hubbub-tree
< 1319791281 808776 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do?
< 1319791298 257140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hubbubs trees
< 1319791346 38020 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, what the hell is that.
< 1319791406 589544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1319791415 233968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./
< 1319791439 412031 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I. see.
< 1319791448 699127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sorry, I can't help you with your name problem.
< 1319791453 182868 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not knowing what a hubbub tree is.
< 1319791524 200364 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thesaurus.com/browse/rowdydow   commotion, babel, bedlam, brouhaha, clamor, hullabaloo, pandemonium, ruckus...
< 1319791538 78174 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of good names.
< 1319791539 32833 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. (1) hubbub, uproar, brouhaha, katzenjammer -- (loud confused noise from many sources)
< 1319791545 952369 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :katzenjammer-tree.
< 1319791806 404143 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are these "reverse context trees"?
< 1319791812 38424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1319791817 550052 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay
< 1319791964 905085 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there's so much talk about the pros and cons of languages on a channel which is primarily meant for discussion about languages that were not intended to be practical in the first place.
< 1319792017 519246 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to recognize a graph theorist: show them something like http://ecofuture.net/energy/files/2011/03/tree-field.jpg and ask if they think it's a forest.
< 1319792141 339265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh.
< 1319792169 306799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: That makes the grossly unjustified assumption that this channel was ever sincerely on-topic.
< 1319792197 627405 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1319792216 153302 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, I don't really think that channels should be on-topic.)
< 1319792224 7829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only ais523 thinks that.
< 1319792243 884170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: back in the great golden age, when #esoteric wasn't overrun the dastardly language zealots, things were... well... still off-topic.
< 1319792252 905759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: haskell-haskell-src-exts-1.11.1-20 is up to date -- reinstalling
< 1319792262 331999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sure makes a lot of sense, aurget!
< 1319792274 304961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I am a convert to the yaourt cause
< 1319792286 595098 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's just good to remember that, for instance, the fact that there's no pros to C++ is not a reason to stop using it -- merely a sign that using C++ has artistic value.
< 1319792306 11170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Oh, certainly! C++ sudoku is one of my favourite games.
< 1319792319 220190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for something /serious/ like a Funge-98 interpreter...
< 1319792320 336667 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is making the implication no pros -> esoteric
< 1319792324 900763 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is totally wrong.
< 1319792371 17490 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 is probably the best language for a Funge-98 interpreter.
< 1319792378 85685 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that wasn't my intention; just to point out that the good sides of a language can be something else than that it is practical, expressive, has efficient implementations, or the like.
< 1319792430 17968 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, like Perl.
< 1319792433 866793 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :using C++ _does_ have artistic value, even though the language is not very esoteric.
< 1319792437 368870 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, like Perl.
< 1319792461 181591 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Perl /can/ be practical and expressive, but I don't know if those qualifiers fit always.
< 1319792492 420731 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why bother with those values, when its artistic value is not to be questioned?
< 1319792559 499800 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, well, I think programming is always going to be rooted in practicality, even if the production of source code is a kind of art.
< 1319792565 363603 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_;
< 1319792605 218248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an art of organization, efficiency, clarity, and probably a few other nouns.
< 1319792667 704793 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, all it really boils down to is "wow, _that_ is a neat way to use closures / mixins / iterators / whatever you happen to like"
< 1319792695 622817 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't say that.
< 1319792717 7058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> uh, well, I think programming is always going to be rooted in practicality, even if the production of source code is a kind of art.
< 1319792724 263026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mark me down on the record as super anti-this statement
< 1319792734 414051 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :marked.
< 1319792794 346678 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm just trying to advocate a broader view on the values of programming (languages): we're already as deeply immersed in those "practical" values as can be, so it would be nice to give some notice to the other values, too.
< 1319792806 241458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ++
< 1319792810 348954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're noted. especially here.
< 1319792814 299980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was meant to be atehwa++.
< 1319792818 425618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't use computers.
< 1319792841 726416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what happens when atehwa wraps around?
< 1319792847 966798 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like, a huge diss?
< 1319792853 242337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wicked burn, etc?
< 1319792861 682716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma atehwa
< 1319792862 15121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa has a karma of 0
< 1319792865 339101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1319792868 972922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma elliott
< 1319792869 50020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 2
< 1319792870 661443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1319792872 351425 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also know that organisation, efficiency, clarity, and so on are important, but they also depend on one's aesthetic preferences
< 1319792874 576176 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma CakeProphet
< 1319792874 742724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@bot
< 1319792874 902224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1319792875 109596 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 0
< 1319792899 114823 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: well, aside from efficiency, but efficiency is not a requisite for good programs.
< 1319792919 949588 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one was to define expressivity, what it comes down to is http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?NumberOfKeystrokes
< 1319792931 51355 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe there is such a thing as good organization and bad organization.
< 1319792939 86498 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, there's not really a quantifiable metric for it.
< 1319792946 415670 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one was to define efficiency, what it comes down to is http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/
< 1319792960 189773 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma
< 1319792961 6270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 1
< 1319792982 342660 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just what #esoteric needs: a brownie point system.
< 1319792987 231309 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and BTW: I don't overflow: I'm arbitrary precision.
< 1319793004 375836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does not think expressivity and efficiency can be defined so simply.
< 1319793011 432872 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does :)
< 1319793016 225389 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially expressivity = keystrokes is problematic.
< 1319793025 555448 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1319793042 594433 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been advocating this for quite some time; I'd like to hear the counterarguments
< 1319793043 611182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly the idea is to minimise human<->computer friction to express a program.
< 1319793050 440517 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319793059 480549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But increased expressive power can have an up-front cost that would make it lose to an uber-golfed language on some tasks.
< 1319793063 781496 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@209-6-232-56.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Changing host
< 1319793063 853960 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319793064 910301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet the former's expressivity scales far better.
< 1319793081 807438 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell vs. GolfScript
< 1319793081 879533 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it depends on what one is used to
< 1319793108 882800 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're not trying to measure the efficiency of language-user pairs but languages, then number of keystrokes makes sense
< 1319793123 890853 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/efficiency/expressivity/
< 1319793139 409988 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of keystrokes for.. what? an average of every program ever written?
< 1319793141 752805 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, it is the expressivity of a language for a certain task
< 1319793144 741963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Well, the question is -- what CakeProphet said.
< 1319793154 999696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The domain is "programs people actually want to write".
< 1319793183 620958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :People want to write things more complex than FizzBuzz, so GolfScript loses very quickly -- even if it minimises keystrokes it certainly doesn't minimise development time.
< 1319793192 495423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because it's unreadable.)
< 1319793219 603543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet Python is readable but not incredibly expressive compared to other high level languages.
< 1319793328 502773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here expressive means... what one can accomplish with a single expression.
< 1319793421 742801 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :and single expressions means what?
< 1319793465 55411 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :please go read one of the many definitions of what an expression is. preferably a correct one.
< 1319793484 628808 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/brain/ideas.png
< 1319793502 773660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have we actually proven that derrik isn't a Markov bot?
< 1319793508 684980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1319793521 664346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we know CakeProphet is.
< 1319793527 740484 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: "correct" as in ... ?
< 1319793555 54237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's reasonably hard to prove that anyone isn't a markov bot, I think
< 1319793591 1527 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: do you actually know what an expression is?
< 1319793616 188367 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, CakeProphet: but it is important to understand that it does _not_ make sense to talk about the expressivity of a language for an unspecified task.
< 1319793630 630735 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that no single word means anything without context, CakeProphet
< 1319793644 468301 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, what kind of task is Python "not incredibly expressive" for?
< 1319793650 718286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: so all the "Python is sooooooo expressive" blog posts are invalid. Yes, I can agree with that statement.
< 1319793674 99137 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :derrik: the context here is programming languages, dude.
< 1319793701 541384 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: not so familiar with programming languages.. but i am very familiar with natural languages
< 1319793703 597404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Sure, but you can talk about the expressivity in general of a programming language as much as you can talk about any subjective, slightly ill-defined statement.
< 1319793719 851386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about the expressivity in terms of "programs people want to write", or more cynically "programs the speaker wants to write".
< 1319793754 684943 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this?: print sorted([(line, lineno) for lineno, line in enumerate(file("foo.txt"))])
< 1319793789 307792 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, that's true.
< 1319793817 282916 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just often turns out that people want to write different stuff.
< 1319793842 694341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = readFile "foo.txt" >>= print . sortBy (comparing fst) . zip [0..] . lines
< 1319793856 760467 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When people talk about expressivity of Lisp, they often think about e.g. heuristic solution space searches
< 1319793872 318535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would expect metaprogramming instead.
< 1319793904 470402 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :when people talk about the expressivity of Perl, they might talk about all the libraries that provide glue with different protocols/services
< 1319793954 654662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: I normally phrase that as "Perl has excellent library support"
< 1319793969 92373 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1319793998 251727 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: metaprogramming is cool, but it too, can be used more for some tasks and less for others
< 1319794003 118790 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is also pretty expressive in not-that-sense as well.
< 1319794015 493504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: I just meant, I think that's what most people would say when they talk about the expressivity of Lisp.
< 1319794024 937570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than what you said.
< 1319794028 228774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I might be wrong.
< 1319794077 621745 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe... but then they'd be horribly cut off from what expressivity means for the actual programming... if they weren't thinking about some specific cases where metaprogramming helped them to make their programs shorter.
< 1319794099 101269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, metaprogramming is just a kind of abstraction.
< 1319794127 631273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abstraction helps in an awful lot of places; metaprogramming is a rather blunt form of it to use everywhere, but it's still abstraction.
< 1319794147 396178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And like all abstraction offers obfuscatory potential etc. etc. etc., but that's probably true of anything that increases expressivity.)
< 1319794153 792777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's that word again!)
< 1319794176 868348 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore Perl is the best at expressionsivity.
< 1319794180 420266 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usefulness of abstraction tools or code organisation tools should be measured, IMO, by the number of keystrokes they save you, for given task(s).
< 1319794220 288025 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you're a software project manager.
< 1319794263 384053 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in every case.
< 1319794294 131020 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay, well that's solved then.
< 1319794297 863303 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good!
< 1319794299 356475 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :next topic: let's measure "beautiful"
< 1319794307 770785 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I was just coming to that :)
< 1319794349 676859 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Saw movies had beautiful imagery.
< 1319794359 287799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: IMO, number of keystrokes saved is a bit of an overly first-order interpretation.
< 1319794364 28964 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not the best storyline, or well, anything else.
< 1319794368 86574 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :beauty of a language can be measured by the number of people who, having learned something of the language, tell their opinions to other people.
< 1319794394 626909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it does correspond to Java not being terribly expressive
< 1319794397 150656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's at least say: Mean of number of keystrokes saved by you in every possible universe weighted by its probability.
< 1319794398 880203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very acceptable for me. :P
< 1319794414 318522 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's directly tied to Kolmogorov complexity :) and as we all know, the KC of a datum (program) depends on the language it is specified in...
< 1319794422 628828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, just because you miraculously avoid inserting a ridiculously easy bug to add that'd take years to fix, doesn't make the tool magic :)
< 1319794473 630585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think reducing the number of some kind of language-defined construct might make more sense?
< 1319794476 689461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... "atoms"?
< 1319794488 940568 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :keystrokes are cheap and kind of irrelevant in my opinion.
< 1319794500 571302 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-200-182.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1319794516 644021 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-252-200.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319794536 239351 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this doesn't say anything at all about the language, just the particular abstraction being used.
< 1319794540 116844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: aka token
< 1319794545 194781 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that works.
< 1319794583 437114 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well, I wouldn't count out the number of keystrokes that come from the language definition: compare "def" with "public static String"
< 1319794615 219229 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compare "i" with "indexOfTraversedArray"
< 1319794617 562829 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 and 3, respectively.
< 1319794627 259537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you name your variables is totally irrelevant to expressivity.
< 1319794654 802762 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :humhum
< 1319794676 679019 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a language that would require me to use very long variables is quite unexpressive (or quite unimpressive)
< 1319794698 399104 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could take an extremely expressive (uh) expression and change all of the variables to ghost_ridesTheWhipN where N is an incrementing number that starts at 0
< 1319794705 122869 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be pretty much the same thing I think?
< 1319794706 676452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: so do we count keystrokes an ide saves you?
< 1319794724 734485 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO languages increase expressivity by allowing same names to be used for operations of different data types
< 1319794729 410896 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if we have to
< 1319794732 498391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual Studio, most expressive programming language.
< 1319794732 987404 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Similarly, if someone asserted that cats were vegetables, someone correcting this might emphasize the last word: <p>Cats are cute <em>animals</em>.</p>" -- HTML5 specification, the best specification.
< 1319794740 98546 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't like to use an IDE, so...
< 1319794754 488623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: So it's not measuring the expressivity of a language, it's a development environment (Unix counts)
< 1319794764 218523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I told the Risc OS people I'm a Haskell person and now they think I'm weird.
< 1319794801 530374 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl in a UNIX environment is the most expressive. I get bash and Perl and everything in UNIX!
< 1319794801 642804 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't believe IDE's save all that many keystrokes...
< 1319794810 328141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /Risc OS/ people think you're weird?
< 1319794812 150181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bash and UNIX stuff is just 2 tokens away. ` and `
< 1319794839 235253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Like I said, Unix counts.
< 1319794844 585343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: My point is that your tools matter.
< 1319794857 455597 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I consider UNIX a good development environment
< 1319794860 742594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magnetic butterfly is slower than cat and restarting if you make a mistake is slower than vi is slower than mind-reading.
< 1319794861 247658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it counts as an IDE, though
< 1319794882 993915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <elliott> Magnetic butterfly is slower than cat and restarting if you make a mistake is slower than vi is slower than mind-reading.
< 1319794889 731306 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :699) <elliott> Magnetic butterfly is slower than cat and restarting if you make a mistake is slower than vi is slower than mind-reading.
< 1319794895 445888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably slightly better out of context
< 1319794897 491106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319794898 913416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319794900 23084 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :395) <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django  <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django
< 1319794901 149830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319794901 422608 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :591) <Gregor> Electrons are so fragile X-D
< 1319794902 671767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319794903 570816 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :270) <ais523> gah, why does lose keep winning?
< 1319794904 159772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319794904 911127 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :27) PA ET ANNET UNIVERSET DER DE ENESTE PERSONEN OERJAN: <oerjan> sa jeg kan bare konkludere med at det er feil, eller er verden helt bonkers
< 1319794906 937609 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :628) <itidus20> what is nice about a pebble is that you can process it with your brain as a number by simply looking at it
< 1319794910 346858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Trivial example: Tab completion saves keypresses if your identifiers are over a certain length. Maybe those identifiers are more readable because they're longer, and this means you make less mistakes, and thus need to do less bug-fixing, and thus end up pressing fewer keys overall.
< 1319794925 828419 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe that tools matter; maybe that is why the length of variable names does not have all that much to do with expressivity (because you end writing the same number of keystrokes, if you have an editor to help you with long names)
< 1319794928 15173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 591
< 1319794930 202721 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof*
< 1319794935 328901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was either that one or 628
< 1319794945 352724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which was worse
< 1319794954 434776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :628 is my favourite there
< 1319794962 422910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK
< 1319794975 259404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :27 is probably the weakest, but: tradition.
< 1319794975 332010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like 395 the best, I think
< 1319794978 599160 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we haven't made very much progress on measuring beautiful.
< 1319794984 985953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Right. So you're not really measuring the expressivity of a language at all :)
< 1319795018 482169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so what I'm saying is, @ is the most expressive thing ever, and every other development environment of any sort is vastly inferior by definition.
< 1319795027 552638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally something none of us can disagree with.
< 1319795068 196028 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could measure the hip-waist ratio of programs to determine beauty.
< 1319795175 664920 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I am measuring the expressivity of languages after all, because really, all the nifty ways to enter programs do not affect number of keystrokes all that much.  It's still about the least number of keystrokes you can go with.
< 1319795187 414607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> atehwa: Trivial example: Tab completion saves keypresses if your identifiers are over a certain length. Maybe those identifiers are more readable because they're longer, and this means you make less mistakes, and thus need to do less bug-fixing, and thus end up pressing fewer keys overall.
< 1319795198 282913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might think it doesn't make much difference in practice, but it's still a difference.
< 1319795213 832860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all I have to do is make the tools more magical until it's all the difference :)
< 1319795229 786688 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you're going with the least number of keystrokes, you won't be using variable names that benefit from auto-completion. :)
< 1319795254 124890 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the expressivity of Piet?
< 1319795255 937481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: You would because: "Maybe those identifiers are more readable because they're longer, and this means you make less mistakes, and thus need to do less bug-fixing, and thus end up pressing fewer keys overall."
< 1319795258 969609 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this brings to my mind a book where they talked about inducing (logic) programs, such as Prolog programs
< 1319795282 325870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there's an example where a more verbose coding style but a fancier editor results in less overall keystrokes.
< 1319795293 121454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not about the language (consider if it enforced the coding style).
< 1319795295 564728 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Piet is programmed with keystrokes, necessarily.
< 1319795339 805103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319795345 43265 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I wouldn't be so sure that it happens in practice.  There's ample statistical evidence that the time programmers use to correcting and rewriting programs is also proportional to the program length.
< 1319795352 653886 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319795397 755576 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would stand even if the extra length was only caused by longer identifier names.
< 1319795405 637373 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1319795417 365495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319795426 455079 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I wouldn't be so sure that it happens in practice.  There's ample statistical evidence that the time programmers use to correcting and rewriting programs is also proportional to the program length.
< 1319795449 293425 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would stand even if the extra length was only caused by longer identifier names.
< 1319795472 64106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you're saying it literally never applies? i.e., every identifier should be as short as physically possible?
< 1319795496 429579 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to rephrase what I'm trying to claim
< 1319795498 566409 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why Perl is the best language.
< 1319795529 250093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to accomodate the length of sigil, you simply remove spaces in front of the sigil.
< 1319795534 831150 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $x becomes my$x
< 1319795569 515296 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The claim is this: the "expressivity" of a language for a given task is the amount of physical work that is required to write the shortest program that exists that is a "solution" of the given task.
< 1319795600 432704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1319795619 260897 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this sense, Charles Babbage's Analytical Engine has the least expressive language.
< 1319795646 79343 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all those punch cards. You probably have to shovel coal into a furnace or something too because it's steam-powered.
< 1319795664 379647 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I wouldn't be surprised; on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to find programming environments that are even less expressive than Babbage's engine.
< 1319795694 153172 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: but count out the work that goes into _executing_ the program.
< 1319795705 227630 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, wait I don't think it's steam powered
< 1319795724 16747 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :only count the work that goes into _specifying_ the program.
< 1319795735 512566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<atehwa> The claim is this: the "expressivity" of a language for a given task is the amount of physical work that is required to write the shortest program that exists that is a "solution" of the given task.
< 1319795744 999340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and i've been trying to prove that it isn't about the language :)
< 1319795750 414832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it only makes sense in terms of an entire toolchain
< 1319795756 589865 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well I just use slaves to punch my Analytical Engine cards.
< 1319795776 928700 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :slaves = most expressive component of your toolchain.
< 1319796065 506622 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I agree with you in principle; I just think that the impact of the rest of the toolchain is almost negligible
< 1319796094 290044 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"almost negligible" implies it isn't negligible
< 1319796097 331978 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a reason why source code is called so: it is the single point that is really the work of people, not automata.
< 1319796103 123034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Well, certainly coding Java without an IDE is quite painful, because the language itself is underpowered and verbose. An IDE helps to mitigate that.
< 1319796142 395884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: But maybe I'll agree that /today/ it doesn't matter all that much beyond pathological examples like that.
< 1319796148 205813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although worryingly common ones.)
< 1319796155 489325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hlep Piet and keystrokes problem ignored.
< 1319796156 638942 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, when I enter discussions about how unexpressive Java is and how it takes so much work to write a program in Java, people invariably toss IDE's in.
< 1319796163 197970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm pretty sure there's no way that @ won't disprove this thesis as soon as everyone is using it :)
< 1319796182 13267 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is @?  Pointer?
< 1319796202 73381 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's operating system type thing porject
< 1319796203 194025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It, er; oh no, ais isn't here, I can't even delegate the task.
< 1319796206 206423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an OS. Sort of.
< 1319796209 5145 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*project
< 1319796218 77333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except not really.
< 1319796218 204439 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "type thing"
< 1319796224 408483 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the lines of INTERLISP-D?
< 1319796225 568213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except yes really but it's misleading to think of it in those terms.
< 1319796232 669381 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is The Most Revolutionary Mostly Undefined Thing.
< 1319796250 999591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: Attempting to go for the most obscure reference possible? :-)
< 1319796252 375569 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an operating system, Jim, but not as we know it
< 1319796253 307709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :suitable for the many porpoises.
< 1319796277 391563 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no really, it was what first came to my mind... because I've been thinking about implementing a Scheme OS, myself.
< 1319796307 66297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, @ is certainly lumpable under the "language-based OS" banner, although that's not strictly true.
< 1319796312 229628 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULL is the most obscured reference.
< 1319796319 690686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is waaayy below it, though :-)
< 1319796336 740731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Same applies to almost every language I know of; the rest are just way below, rather than waaayy below.)
< 1319796337 841821 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sure it is.
< 1319796346 643222 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the things you say are getting annoyingly close to self-contradictions
< 1319796356 329763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Well, they are... and they aren't.
< 1319796359 714735 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1319796378 312084 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second, I thought I had copyright on self-contradictions here?
< 1319796385 661577 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to take legal action soon.
< 1319796393 433521 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Piet kinda handled by changing "number of keystrokes" into "amount of physical work"
< 1319796430 832238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure-data is probably the least expressive language then
< 1319796434 909222 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a pain in the ass to program.
< 1319796478 67957 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, that's a generic trademark now
< 1319796483 980633 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :example program: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pd_example_3.svg
< 1319796524 426912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More representative example program: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Pure_Data_with_many_patches_open_%28netpd_project%29.png
< 1319796533 786652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, s.
< 1319796538 720626 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :program(s) --yes
< 1319796548 343452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what's a plural between friends.
< 1319796552 289628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, we're not friends.
< 1319796554 666793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Between enemies.
< 1319796580 578975 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one could also replace a Java IDE with macro preprocessing :) to set up sensible abbreviations for all boilerplate code.
< 1319796584 845515 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I would the massive spaghetti mess underneath all of those clean UIs is more representative.
< 1319796589 892444 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*would say
< 1319796657 534053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway graphical dataflow languages are an interesting concept, but I'd prefer more textiness.
< 1319796667 460941 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goto10.org/wp-content/uploads/goto10.org/2008/11/pure_data-workshop.png
< 1319796677 816819 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about that for representativeness?
< 1319796684 685961 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's not too far off.
< 1319796709 608956 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mitigate that kind of situation with some good style, but no one does this of course.
< 1319796713 504179 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it involves more clicking.
< 1319796981 135528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests something.
< 1319796981 939077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319796997 302909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319796999 719038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo elliott
< 1319797001 502049 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott
< 1319797007 904899 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo elliott
< 1319797007 976980 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott elliott
< 1319797022 103471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, t'works.
< 1319797043 739633 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo `echo echo`
< 1319797045 693160 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo
< 1319797052 506340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo elliott
< 1319797054 102640 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott
< 1319797055 998970 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cho elliott
< 1319797056 71665 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottlliottliottiottottttt
< 1319797106 771071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, nobody told me `speaker-test -c2` produced avant-garde noise on command.
< 1319797113 151260 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map head (tails "elliott")
< 1319797114 310753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "elliott*Exception: Prelude.head: empty list
< 1319797115 340714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Make fungot do a /me that highlights me pls.
< 1319797115 658565 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 17. no pokers are soft; all pillows are soft. 11. no. 16. here we only understand " are" between names of two attributes ( for example, such propositions as " all the fnord i've done, from fnord and from fnord.
< 1319797160 271169 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +.,[.,]+.!ACTION elliott whatever
< 1319797160 343569 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elliott whatever
< 1319797165 586181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh.
< 1319797167 227824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, to clarify
< 1319797172 275199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: One that doesn't highlight me the line before :P
< 1319797181 377882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That worked, but probably only because you highlighted me...
< 1319797201 450070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +.,,[.,,]+.!.A.C.T.I.O.N. .e.l.l.i.o.t.t. .w.h.a.t.e.v.e.r
< 1319797201 659250 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elliott whatever
< 1319797202 991403 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do a rot13
< 1319797207 219740 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that.
< 1319797211 912449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[+]+.,,[.,,]+.!.A.C.T.I.O.N. .e.l.l.i.o.t.t. .w.h.a.t.e.v.e.r
< 1319797211 984638 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elliott whatever
< 1319797251 865184 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there documentation somewhere about the many bots on the channel?
< 1319797263 723138 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno ask fungot
< 1319797264 279000 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: and what a grand thing it would be glad to be helped up again.
< 1319797279 358777 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: is there documentation about you and your comrades?
< 1319797279 455529 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :atehwa: next to him the eldest daughter: she suggested very little, only asked if he would take her with her look of ' passive beauty.'
< 1319797283 340332 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +.,[-.,]+.!BDUJPO!fmmjpuu!whatever
< 1319797283 412432 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elliott vg`sdudq
< 1319797295 251123 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style
< 1319797295 323550 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice* c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
< 1319797297 553961 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdudq, good data structure name.
< 1319797315 149976 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc
< 1319797315 304084 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams)
< 1319797316 52948 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help
< 1319797317 339979 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
< 1319797328 836034 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is "documentation" in the sense of
< 1319797330 908135 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^prefixes
< 1319797331 78816 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?
< 1319797334 309675 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`prefixes
< 1319797335 849074 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?
< 1319797337 296194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[+]+.,,[.,,]+.!.A.C.T.I.O.N. .e.l.l.i.o.t.t. .w.h.a.t.e.v.e.r
< 1319797337 368535 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elliott whatever
< 1319797338 887734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[+]+.,,[.,,]+.!.A.C.T.I.O.N. .e.l.l.i.o.t.t. .w.h.a.t.e.v.e.r
< 1319797339 81492 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION elliott whatever
< 1319797345 484338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, why won't it be context-sensitive.
< 1319797357 722094 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: interesting.
< 1319797367 678024 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!prefixes I think used to work too maybe I guess.
< 1319797386 664425 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`!prefixes
< 1319797388 861328 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: !prefixes: not found
< 1319797390 451826 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!prefixes
< 1319797393 78655 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But EgoBot's being uncoöperative, to ö a bit, lately.
< 1319797412 347785 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, lambdabot has > too
< 1319797415 121616 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1
< 1319797415 895018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1
< 1319797424 697652 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head [1..10]
< 1319797425 592126 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  1
< 1319797426 94138 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's different.
< 1319797433 99139 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does that ":t" thing on-channel also.
< 1319797439 965850 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Nothing
< 1319797440 833556 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Maybe a
< 1319797444 564159 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo HackEgo is th ebest.
< 1319797446 708766 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is th ebest.
< 1319797468 569752 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words
< 1319797470 574833 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: words: not found
< 1319797474 596653 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1319797478 372046 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo fungot is the eboniest.
< 1319797478 444349 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is the eboniest. fungot is the eboniest.
< 1319797490 337486 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1319797492 450549 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ runperl \ toutf8
< 1319797496 416559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319797522 961300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319797524 158173 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did words get deleted? :(
< 1319797540 596855 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 4
< 1319797542 842780 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :strunkuna cal las cous
< 1319797545 328213 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.
< 1319797546 697479 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just got truncamated in the ls.
< 1319797546 922478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is blind.
< 1319797551 347970 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that.
< 1319797555 279182 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/w*
< 1319797557 310771 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/wl \ bin/word \ bin/wtf
< 1319797569 580684 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 10
< 1319797572 252129 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fes banchind wiigandepatalastollinqui mter genbrimed inata mes chedu chturtihaheaing hot
< 1319797590 234038 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot
< 1319797622 814215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<HackEgo> strunkuna cal las cous
< 1319797625 901914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a phrase
< 1319797629 554680 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're such a chedu.
< 1319797669 882730 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The relevance is an inata
< 1319797681 496116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good god, there's no Clearlooks for GTK3?
< 1319797698 973449 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I think 'chedu' sounds like a derogatory racial term from Star Wars.
< 1319797736 569118 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiigandepatalastollinqui is an ancient god.
< 1319797780 209643 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Valarin seemed to use long words; for example, the Valarin word for Telperion, Ibrîniðilpathânezel, is eight syllables long."
< 1319797798 494036 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, that's the Mayan god of esoteric programming languages
< 1319798069 471338 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo '[a-z'\''-]+(?<='\''s)'
< 1319798071 373276 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[a-z'-]+(?<='s)
< 1319798075 541485 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm
< 1319798116 345297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does '[a-z'\''-]+(?<='\''s)' count as a single argument?
< 1319798152 158513 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should; there's no whitespace in there.
< 1319798186 546086 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eng_filter='[a-z'\''-]+(?<!'\''s)'
< 1319798194 357876 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :   gb_opt eng-1M Eng1M $eng_filter
< 1319798200 974400 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected
< 1319798235 134565 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it's not escaped/quoted any more at that point.
< 1319798241 822879 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try "$eng_filter" or some-such.
< 1319798249 780994 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right...
< 1319798254 850850 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid bash.
< 1319798255 91119 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game
< 1319798293 350606 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: same thing.
< 1319798302 669678 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319798305 730641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover
< 1319798307 533050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $//
< 1319798314 477215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was quick.
< 1319798314 549558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1319798319 363833 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah. I was confused.
< 1319798323 283112 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you made that correction.
< 1319798349 125904 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like "who is Phantom_Hoover ?"
< 1319798383 616457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319798385 759055 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: same error. it doesn't seem to change anything.
< 1319798454 852617 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Hrm. Well, I'unno.   foo='[a-z'\''-]+(?<!'\''s)'; echo $foo   seems to work just fine.
< 1319798474 984732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because the "$eng_filter" is being passed to a function
< 1319798480 935662 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then doesn't quote things.
< 1319798492 192487 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash is silly. :P
< 1319798493 68606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:40] <ais523> how do I convert a char to a string in OCaml, without using any modules? I'm trying to write a script to automatically mark other people's homework (in a kind of reverse to the usual question), so it has to run inside a sandbox where modules aren't allowed, and there's no standard string_of_char function, nor anything similar that I can find in Pervasives
< 1319798494 414662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:40] <ais523> I have a feeling that I'm missing some sort of syntax for declaring a string a character at a time
< 1319798505 770879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked in #ocaml, but I'd better ask here too just in case somebody knows
< 1319798507 59383 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passing into a function shouldn't be any different than passing into a command; but of course what you do inside the function is a different thing.
< 1319798510 202498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be that difficult an operation...
< 1319798514 20197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*…
< 1319798526 945002 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, I'm not quoting inside the function. so that's the problem.
< 1319798540 370790 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know OCaml
< 1319798559 669436 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's anything like Haskell, surround it by square brackets
< 1319798592 303547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure there's something in the string module
< 1319798594 483906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think exists
< 1319798604 578914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't you read?
< 1319798607 144660 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is something in the String module, but "without using any modules".
< 1319798608 470159 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not using modules!
< 1319798611 838196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.
< 1319798626 220118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Surely the string module is not all that unsafe.
< 1319798650 220277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tests somethin
< 1319798650 895456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :g.
< 1319798652 318923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not a security thing, but a using-modules-to-do-their-work-for-them thing
< 1319798652 768942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319798659 381126 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ocaml have come up with a suggesiton, I'll try it
< 1319798672 12784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319798675 29202 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is the suggestion... complicated and perverse?
< 1319798695 29871 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, look, they've changed the royal succession rules for Commonwealth countries
< 1319798720 532583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let x = "x" in x.[0] <- 'y'; x ;;
< 1319798721 919177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : string = "y"
< 1319798723 399902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: indeed
< 1319798723 473795 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work?
< 1319798732 412196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out strings are mutable in OCaml
< 1319798738 41116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I use a one-character string literal and mutate it
< 1319798741 627045 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commonwealth countries recognise a different monarch to the UK?
< 1319798750 495118 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK's in the Commonwealth
< 1319798776 209855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319798786 719291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319798802 84053 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gb_opt() { echo perl ./construct_grams.pl -m "${2:-$1}"${3:+ -f $3}${4:+ -e $4} $D/googlebooks-$1-*.csv; }
< 1319798805 67239 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :d_opt()  { echo perl ./construct_grams.pl -m "${3:-$1}"${2:+ -e "$2"}${4:+ -f "$4"}  dict/$1;
< 1319798813 938691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash is the best programming language for writing abstractions
< 1319798841 425938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# string_of_char 'a' ^ string_of_char 'b' ;;
< 1319798842 744712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : string = "aa"
< 1319798844 293973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear
< 1319798857 410150 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. same error. :(
< 1319798878 70402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joys of impure languages, right?
< 1319798886 327114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat
< 1319798897 48387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's closing over "x"
< 1319798907 869928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even want to know.
< 1319798913 255558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's modifying the same string literal twice
< 1319798916 39410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to get my LAN IP without ifconfig?
< 1319798917 254329 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Heh, heh. What if you return "" ^ x after mutating x.
< 1319798928 299289 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I need to like
< 1319798928 718660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that's your string_of_char
< 1319798930 327101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo the "'s ?
< 1319798935 449120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ughhhhhzsodihwiuerhiuwerh
< 1319798945 784576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not just make a new variable each time
< 1319798958 425022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let string_of_char char = let x = "x" in x.[0] <- 'y'; x ;;
< 1319798964 284137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does that actually share the "x"
< 1319798969 130882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case: ewwwww
< 1319798992 514788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it closes over the "x"
< 1319798997 314403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's disgusting
< 1319799002 878034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let string_of_char c = let x = "*" ^ "" in x.[0] <- c ; x ;;
< 1319799004 249094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :val string_of_char : char -> string = <fun>
< 1319799005 727472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# string_of_char 'a' ^ string_of_char 'b' ;;
< 1319799007 193556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : string = "ab"
< 1319799009 284427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenation operator saves the day
< 1319799013 578794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I prefer fizzie's
< 1319799014 119492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it has to construct a new string each time
< 1319799025 176837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo \"test\"
< 1319799027 282118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let string_of_char c = let x = " " in x.[0] <- c; "" ^ x ;;
< 1319799027 354383 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"test"
< 1319799049 745026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, "ip addr show dev eth0"
< 1319799081 460964 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But would   let x = " " in x.[0] <- c; "" ^ x ;;   be theoretically non-re-entrant?
< 1319799101 820893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: indeed
< 1319799110 282305 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl ./construct_grams.pl -m "Eng1M" -f "[a-z'-]+(?<!'s)" "/media/Elements/googledata//googlebooks-eng-1M-*.csv"
< 1319799116 423266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what my function outputs
< 1319799152 6449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319799157 77535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319799175 913183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319799180 357651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319799191 158642 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait I don't want the * in quotes.
< 1319799192 535884 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wuehruhweriuhasudhiuwehr
< 1319799193 867364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319799199 180589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319799206 675299 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db43c8d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319799206 874947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_sigh_ what is this thing complaining about
< 1319799220 706088 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also with the default bash config (histexpand true) ""s aren't enough to quote a !.
< 1319799232 926848 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, why?
< 1319799238 525268 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's special about !
< 1319799241 945753 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo "foo!bar"
< 1319799242 18409 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: !bar": event not found
< 1319799244 312651 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why.
< 1319799248 946142 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the history expansion character.
< 1319799252 682524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... \!?
< 1319799252 986221 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, the default one.)
< 1319799261 338702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319799265 717293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319799271 476381 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo "foo\!bar"
< 1319799271 548232 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo\!bar
< 1319799271 777351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY WOULD YOU SAY NO IDENT RESPONSE
< 1319799272 777794 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite.
< 1319799273 809507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH
< 1319799274 144719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1319799284 533563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319799289 419782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319799291 849837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: help what do.
< 1319799296 956738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent.
< 1319799299 655517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Look at mah hostname.
< 1319799333 242686 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also does * not expand inside quotes?
< 1319799353 427987 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I suggest: despair. And yes, * does not expand inside quotes.
< 1319799361 611319 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I quote spaces in a file name and also expand wildcards?
< 1319799364 580604 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEIRWEEHRJIUS<FDUWHERUHAEUHWERUHWET
< 1319799367 27481 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash string hell.
< 1319799374 926146 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You put the * outside the quotes.
< 1319799386 348816 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so wildcard expansion comes after quote expansion
< 1319799399 241778 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:~$ touch 'foo bar 1'
< 1319799399 375172 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:~$ touch 'foo bar 2'
< 1319799399 447694 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:~$ echo "foo bar"*
< 1319799399 447914 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar 1 foo bar 2
< 1319799436 286216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be able to echo ! just fine.
< 1319799454 241094 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You (or someone else) may have set histexpand off.
< 1319799460 165419 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the sensible thing.)
< 1319799462 483543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep unquoted * fixed everything now.
< 1319799478 290149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now my functions are beautifully written as:
< 1319799479 759758 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gb_opt() { echo perl ./construct_grams.pl -m \"${2:-$1}\"${3:+ -f \"$3\"}${4:+ -e \"$4\"} \"$D/googlebooks-$1-\"*\".csv\"; }
< 1319799482 799061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :d_opt()  { echo perl ./construct_grams.pl -m \"${3:-$1}\"${2:+ -e \"$2\"}${4:+ -f \"$4\"}  \"dict/$1\"; }
< 1319799542 73470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically I'm going to compile all the English stuff with a special filter so I can avoid weirdness
< 1319799551 678853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then use my default filter on everything else
< 1319799559 687903 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until I determine more weirdness in those corpii.
< 1319799576 954620 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway I can specify a regex filter for word data now.
< 1319799609 507455 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The completely different argument order for gb_opt and d_opt looks pretty weird already.
< 1319799621 690171 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's for convenience
< 1319799636 358840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I might need to commonly specify for the googledata is not the same as the /usr/share/dict data.
< 1319799652 954339 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/share/dict needs more explicit encodings. the googledata is all in the data encoding.
< 1319799655 915344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noidentd.hs: accept: resource exhausted (Too many open files)
< 1319799660 213269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/data/default/
< 1319799660 743585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooooo, my identd is exploitable.
< 1319799738 480657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's any way to avoid that without one process per connection.
< 1319799742 340569 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :googledata however needs explicitly specified module names more often because a lot of the names have hyphens
< 1319799753 706971 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could fix this with a de-hyphenate regex in my perl script, but... eh.
< 1319799804 693742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1319799917 274756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the dehyphenate regex sounds nice so I'll do that...
< 1319800014 277185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now they have the same argument order
< 1319800030 323165 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .
< 1319800066 780054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319800085 541322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go
< 1319800105 192770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, it's nice to have IRC to depend on when you need to do something bizarre with a relatively rarely-used language in an emergency
< 1319800125 522369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did I mention I preferred fizzie's?
< 1319800133 265112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let string_of_char c = let x = " " in x.[0] <- c; "" ^ x ;;
< 1319800134 544348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not while my connection was holding
< 1319800144 372696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels weird mutating the same string constantly, though
< 1319800159 811390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's conceptually "nicer" than making a too-big string just to do what you do.
< 1319800160 892900 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :feels completely natural in Perl.
< 1319800161 254589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's the difference between mutate then clone, and clone then mutate
< 1319800166 18420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, not too-big.
< 1319800166 420257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there isn't a too-big string
< 1319800170 234197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, okay, if you insist.
< 1319800176 369836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I misspoke.
< 1319800177 853880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fingerthunk.
< 1319800180 183810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tunkletyped.
< 1319800219 182298 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :TUnkletypedfingerthunk
< 1319800259 404422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD sockets should be simpler so that it's actually possible to golf a fake identd.
< 1319800315 908875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a 20-line Haskell solution, but it's Just Not The Same.
< 1319800340 110603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because Haskell doesn't have mutable strings
< 1319800344 227978 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have been worried with   let x = "*" ^ "" in x.[0] <- c; x   that some constant-folding pass pre-did "*" ^ "" -> "*"; but I guess not.
< 1319800351 5821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, that is a correct reading of context.
< 1319800356 512682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OCaml basically doesn't optimise.
< 1319800362 646140 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gb_opt() { echo perl ./construct_grams.pl -m \"$1\"${2:+ -f \"$2\"}${3:+ -e \"$3\"} \"$D/googlebooks-$1-\"*\".csv\"; }
< 1319800365 640407 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :d_opt()  { echo perl ./construct_grams.pl -m \"$1\"${2:+ -e \"$2\"}${3:+ -f \"$3\"}  \"dict/$1\"; }
< 1319800368 606708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a little nicer.
< 1319800370 977261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, that optimization is incorrect
< 1319800402 241778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, if you later mutated one of the original strings, ^'s return value would change too
< 1319800417 256086 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, mutable strings.
< 1319800458 295300 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll register Pietbot with nickserv now
< 1319800469 498141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, golf me a fake identd.
< 1319800482 788849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits total success.
< 1319800491 330796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: is it actually written in Piet?
< 1319800530 260619 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nnnno. But I've seen a not-many-lines fakedentd somewhere.
< 1319800543 244199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But it's like two hundred.
< 1319800544 819628 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no I won't
< 1319800624 520979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could just submit it as an anagol puzzle, then use the result?
< 1319800633 643361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those can't do networking
< 1319800634 465821 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohgods graph theory
< 1319800648 283244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: could you just use an nc wrapper?
< 1319800650 235073 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, but such a pain
< 1319800654 324824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no
< 1319800654 507532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the identd protocol more complicated than that?
< 1319800675 899632 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here ever looked at random graphs at all?
< 1319800709 742411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it's trivial
< 1319800710 716450 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just write a sprunge script
< 1319800719 54931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can never remember the command for it.
< 1319800727 536662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the command is on sprunge's website
< 1319800730 713254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, hmm, this one is only 143 lines, but it needs to be executed via identd
< 1319800732 630594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just write my own
< 1319800733 978584 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm aware
< 1319800742 47636 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but going to the website to get the command defeats the purpose of a command line pastebin
< 1319800758 935378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, it saves you a copy-and-paste of the thing you're trying to submit
< 1319800769 256071 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true.
< 1319800824 3275 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone did use a nc wrapper inside a 'while true' loop. It's a bit race-conditiony perhaps since the nc will only accept the first connection, but usually it's over fast enough.
< 1319800827 662353 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1319800872 346420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ports are unsigned sixteen bits, right?
< 1319800892 981137 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now... (ominous ominesance)
< 1319800981 781349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -e '#!/bin/sh'"\n"curl -F 'sprunge=<-' http://sprunge.us > scripts/sprunge
< 1319800982 849846 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I saw was just "read line; chomp newline; append ' : USERID : UNIX : osofake'; write out" without bothering to, you know, check that the query made any sense.
< 1319800984 824529 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooo
< 1319801002 540580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, generally speaking
< 1319801029 433455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's what I'm doing too.
< 1319801046 190401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait that doesn't work
< 1319801053 625445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Except (a) with a maximum length it'll read before kicking you and (b) maintaining like 16 connections at a time and if there's more than that a new one boots an old one off.
< 1319801062 270746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In case, you know, someone tries to DOS it.
< 1319801072 236882 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat Acro/build_data.sh | ./sprunge
< 1319801072 376139 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :./sprunge: 2: cannot open -: No such file
< 1319801082 62857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would someone try to DOS a golfed identd
< 1319801087 999120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would an identd golfer worry about DOSes?
< 1319801132 11171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hmm, is 0 a valid port number? what about 65535?
< 1319801134 982467 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...
< 1319801135 670831 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1319801136 489379 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid
< 1319801137 323091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash
< 1319801138 67444 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting
< 1319801182 215817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: alias sprunge='curl -F "sprunge=<-" sprunge.us'
< 1319801193 152678 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat sprunge | ./sprunge http://sprunge.us/Qfge
< 1319801200 143767 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I fixied it
< 1319801212 614324 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At least API-wise 0 is generally not a valid port number, since it's used to indicate "any port".
< 1319801227 143869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319801235 64936 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm, alias? what is that?
< 1319801241 261974 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no man entry for it.
< 1319801253 716728 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bash builtin.
< 1319801264 532369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: try "help alias" in bash
< 1319801313 459929 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm okay
< 1319801320 725899 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are these defined in a file or something?
< 1319801331 737203 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite often in .bashrc, or some other file.
< 1319801351 714883 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't need to like... "export" them or anything.
< 1319801361 61629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1319801363 413473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TEST TIME
< 1319801365 319773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319801369 760439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319801379 366135 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty close to a shell function except more restricted.
< 1319801379 474560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww.
< 1319801465 143932 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh, remember yesterday's sillily-titled IEEE tech alert? It seems they got some feedback: "Subject: IMPORTANT: A Letter From IEEE Spectrum Editor in Chief Susan Hassler About Today's Tech Alert
< 1319801465 216536 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Please accept our sincere apologies for the headline in today's Tech Alert: "With the Arduino, Now Even Your Mom Can Program." The actual title of the article is "The Making of Arduino."
< 1319801465 216704 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an IEEE member, and a mom, and the headline was inexcusable, a lazy, sexist cliché that should have never seen the light of day. Today we are instituting an additional headline review process that will apply to all future Tech Alerts so that such insipid and offensive headlines never find their way into your in-box. --"
< 1319801503 633353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :select reports connects to a listening socket as "reads", right?
< 1319801509 336599 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so I do need to edit .bashrc or whatever.
< 1319801515 2642 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't persist between sessions otherwise.
< 1319801595 364174 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://sites.google.com/site/mandelbox/negative-mandelbox
< 1319801603 892954 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :help i can't stop looking
< 1319801610 694736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, maybe I'll just use poll.
< 1319801618 445293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll doesn't need the set of fds reset each time, right?
< 1319801652 454952 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use a static array of struct pollfd's, yes.
< 1319801664 68522 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even touch the "events" fields, just the "revents".
< 1319801709 650172 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a new connection on a listening socket should be a POLLIN(ation).
< 1319801751 415063 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: thx for the day, D, L, s, et al
< 1319802036 236007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1319802312 450552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: help I can't stop looking https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3H-b7AFnpE4/TqhDiDPG0KI/AAAAAAAAKJU/QIpbMwzYsn4/s400/boss.gif
< 1319802538 944188 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What."
< 1319802562 789119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmm, I think I must be using poll wrong. :-(
< 1319802582 732488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I get the events for new connections, but no read events beyond that.
< 1319802641 637873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm.
< 1319802647 794154 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, um, well. I'unno. Do you accept() the new connections and add them to your fd-list?
< 1319802658 182509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind: Address already in use
< 1319802659 536931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ajhgkhrkahkrjghkj
< 1319802664 81955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How _do_ you fix that?
< 1319802675 972292 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO_REUSEADDR can help.
< 1319802692 623852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I'd rather not change my code.
< 1319802700 309828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need some kind of all-purpose unlock-port. :p
< 1319802765 434421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, now it works.
< 1319802822 601405 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a timeout. When the lingering entry in the TCP stack evaporates from CLOSE_WAIT or whatever to gone, it'll be again available.
< 1319803091 277044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1319803101 814881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's safe to have a pollfds with a junk fd as long as .events = 0, right?
< 1319803108 67489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pollfds entry
< 1319803436 692755 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, it could be safe, but I'm not sure it's necessarily safe.
< 1319803474 183518 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The array's members are pollfd structures within which fd specifies an open file descriptor --"
< 1319803517 966380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a struct pollfd with .fd = -1, though.
< 1319803526 107648 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the value of fd is less than 0, events shall be ignored, and revents shall be set to 0 in that entry on return from poll()."
< 1319803634 765240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> You can have a struct pollfd with .fd = -1, though.
< 1319803636 15136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, thanks.
< 1319803673 691799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, to be exact, POSIX says you can have one. I don't see a mention it in my "man poll", but...
< 1319803791 832059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's just assume it works.
< 1319803813 267029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are four send()s after another likely to get mushed together or will they cause ~overhead~? I don't really know network stuff.
< 1319803845 573262 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess it's also safe-for-some-values-of to have an invalid fd in there; it'll just set POLLNVAL in the .revents member, but you can ignore that.
< 1319803885 260799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't specifically request TCP_NODELAY, I suppose they're rather likely to get combined to a single packet.
< 1319803900 517848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also also: Are you meant to shutdown() a server fd too, or is it just close() that you're meant to do?
< 1319803976 569055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can request the packets to be sent separately, but by default they'll be queued up a bit
< 1319803989 461503 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, uh... I guess you could shutdown(s, SHUT_RD) the socket immediately when you've read the query, that would (theoretically) let one half of the four-packet shutdown sequence happen during the time you're "computing" and writing the reply.
< 1319804008 547312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nonono, I mean server fds.
< 1319804009 840020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in.
< 1319804012 909755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I accept() from.
< 1319804080 648752 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that; I'd just close it.
< 1319804113 440673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1319804213 398204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try this.
< 1319804215 393077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319804220 171223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319804225 479882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1319804228 304816 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no. :/
< 1319804229 581608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't like the response.
< 1319804250 201297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky noidentd]$ nc localhost 113
< 1319804250 303505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :113, 113
< 1319804250 375871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :113, 113 : USERID : UNIX : elliott
< 1319804254 141207 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's korrect, no?
< 1319804294 444752 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks good to me.
< 1319804302 925179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1319804324 565106 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you put a CR-LF pair at the end?
< 1319804328 800692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also, are you sure close() is enough? "bind: Address already in use" still happens for me even with a proper atexit handler.
< 1319804390 185330 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, close() does an implicit shutdown() for connection-oriented sockets; I don't think shutdown() is even sensible for a listening socket, which after all is not connected to anything.
< 1319804405 951845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright.
< 1319804412 71987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319804417 166235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319804421 9429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1319804448 198704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/aMJS ;; I'm actually surprised it came out looking as good as it does; all I have to do now is make it work...
< 1319804528 413589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky noidentd]$ echo -n 'a' | nc localhost 113
< 1319804528 606067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hang]
< 1319804535 274175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess recv doesn't work like read.
< 1319804555 245039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or nc doesn't.
< 1319804557 801774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the two.
< 1319804570 772863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, hardly matters.
< 1319804591 229264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I can get mine to break.
< 1319804660 688292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes.
< 1319804667 258633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 1
< 1319804667 446160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 2
< 1319804667 518642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 3
< 1319804667 518798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 4
< 1319804667 518905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 5
< 1319804667 908579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 6
< 1319804669 864496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 7
< 1319804671 854972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 8
< 1319804673 881538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 9
< 1319804675 902579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo 0
< 1319804677 901075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out one can't have 0 connections.
< 1319804690 788144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1319804715 359962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :		conns = (conns % (MAXCONNS - 1)) + 1;
< 1319804715 431960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think that should fix it.
< 1319804768 247321 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing looks suspicious. Isn't it going to just abandon the (open) sockets when it wraps over?
< 1319804820 222588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that's the intent. Oh, I should probably close them.
< 1319804843 846316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The intent is that too many connections disconnect older ones, though, yes.
< 1319804880 72672 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still sounds strange that it'd abandon/close all MAXCONNS existing connections every MAXCONN'th connection when that counter wraps over.
< 1319804895 610691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it? It'll just abandon the first. Oh, I see whaty ou mean.
< 1319804902 171577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just always pass MAXCONNS + 1 to poll.
< 1319804904 985354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not like it'll go any slower.
< 1319804928 485604 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You loop with for (size_t i = 0; i < conns; i++) so when the counter wraps over to 1, it'll only look at the first connection.
< 1319804933 578238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, indeed.
< 1319804959 356274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixing.
< 1319805076 679460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: This should look more reasonable to you: http://sprunge.us/GGWW
< 1319805080 747845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, modulo me having not yet defined NELEMS.
< 1319805154 900923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It would be kind of nice if it only dropped people if there was more than ten simultaneous connections. But I'd need a bitset then.
< 1319805170 426763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it would still be more elegant, as I'd call poll() with a proper count.
< 1319805185 894113 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319805190 727955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319805197 203266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still doesn't actually _work_, though.
< 1319805213 776608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs Wireshark.
< 1319805280 124913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anyway, I think that behaviour is semi-sensible.
< 1319805292 991486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just cycles through ten slots, closing sockets as it overwrites them.
< 1319805294 553948 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also (conns % (MAXCONNS - 1)) + 1 returns values in the [1, MAXCONNS-1] range (since %(MAXCONNS-1) is at most MAXCONNS-2); I think you want just (conns%MAXCONNS)+1 there. Then it'll go 0 (initial) -> 1, 1 -> 2, ..., MAXCONNS-1 -> MAXCONNS, MAXCONNS -> 1, 1 -> 2, ...
< 1319805302 195696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right.
< 1319805316 528759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, validate my semi-confidence in the behaviour being reasonable.
< 1319805325 285937 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it sounds semi-reasonable.
< 1319805332 585591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you remove the semi- qualifier???
< 1319805352 734734 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was a semi-confidence on reasonability, not confidence on semi-reasonability.
< 1319805359 480917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I added a bitset of available slots I'd also want something that keeps track of the oldness order of them, so I only kill the oldest socket. But blah blah blah, too much effort.
< 1319805409 978664 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319805419 350884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319805424 39143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319805439 667232 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, at that level of simplicity a circular buffer like that is a reasonable choice.
< 1319805459 616220 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming needs more pretzel buffers
< 1319805476 788446 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use the clients[] array as the "bitset" (just find the first .fd = -1) but you'd still need some sort of a serial number array to select the oldest when all the slots are full.
< 1319805490 852769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know how to filter wireshark to just show things on a certain port?
< 1319805505 830643 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always just tcpdump and then open the dumpfile in wireshark.
< 1319805550 553845 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcpdump -i iface -s 0 -w blah.pcap 'port 113' + wait, ^c + wireshark blah.pcap.
< 1319805555 758041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1319805556 894944 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be shocked if wireshark didn't have some way to do that
< 1319805558 260710 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm sure the built-in capturator can filter too.
< 1319805570 181956 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that it has so many options it's hard to find the one you actually want
< 1319805577 500837 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is an issue with both GUI and CLI programs
< 1319805579 599566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm filtering this one after-the-fact.
< 1319805588 261210 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well, those filters are really messy too.
< 1319805619 474842 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just write an expression in that box, but I don't really know the syntax.
< 1319805632 383416 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that GUI thing for constructing a filter, but it especially has far too many options.
< 1319805642 242708 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you can find the first packet, you can use the "follow the stream" option.)
< 1319805665 509301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tcp.port == 113" does it.
< 1319805666 867005 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd check, but they haven't installed such HACKER TOOLS on these work-workstations.
< 1319805679 518748 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the syntax is reasonable, I just can't remember it.
< 1319805699 894830 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319805754 686557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Heh", it actually goes in two packets here.
< 1319805761 802181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the client said, and then the rest of the line.
< 1319805772 692059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit... wasteful.
< 1319805821 783049 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can use the MSG_MORE flag in the three first send()s.
< 1319805842 659425 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the "wait, wait, I'm not done yet" flag.
< 1319806048 478612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not part of my manpage.
< 1319806074 858937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319806077 330245 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be exactly portable.
< 1319806079 478973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319806082 927762 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> It might not be exactly portable.
< 1319806086 199880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Annoyed that made a difference.
< 1319806164 642635 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a lazy identd-client-writer; TCP is stream-oriented, the packet boundaries shouldn't really matter.
< 1319806169 184677 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319806170 756232 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> <fizzie> It might not be exactly portable.
< 1319806172 794280 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Annoyed that made a difference.
< 1319806174 771223 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> [elliott@dinky noidentd]$ curl -F 'sprunge=<-' sprunge.us
< 1319806176 774352 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> curl: (6) Could not resolve host: sprunge.us; Unknown error
< 1319806178 817173 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Uh.
< 1319806180 784942 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Neat, my connection is broken.
< 1319806182 773692 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> fizzie: Ping.
< 1319806184 794160 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> ^echo hi
< 1319806188 450717 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes,
< 1319806190 836673 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:49:24: <fizzie> Sounds like a lazy identd-client-writer; TCP is stream-oriented, the packet boundaries shouldn't really matter.
< 1319806191 700191 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1319806193 707107 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's why I was annoyed. :p
< 1319806205 72387 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Although -- send isn't actually guaranteed to send everything at once, is it?
< 1319806217 598451 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it's TCP, it's not even guaranteed to send everything in order
< 1319806219 17133 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm being lazy, too.
< 1319806222 178331 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on conditions in the Internet
< 1319806231 712270 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319806236 830127 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I'm sure send(fd, foo, n, 0) can't actually rearrange the bytes in foo.
< 1319806238 444899 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, recv will always appear receive it in order, because it reconstructs the packets into the order of the original sends
< 1319806249 465882 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, yes.
< 1319806256 56519 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: right, but it can place them in multiple packets, which can be received out of order
< 1319806271 468115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1319806289 378896 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Actually I don't think I will bother trying multiple send()s for the response, because (a) it's tiny and (b) if I'm not careful you could put it into an infloop by being a bad client, perhaps.
< 1319806324 874911 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't be non-lazy, since there's no way to guarantee in-one-packet delivery; I guess a single send() with a small amount of data is sort of a best-effort thing, though.
< 1319806354 803987 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude why has the US not cut its ridiculous military spending.
< 1319806383 306163 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, instead of catapulting itself into the debtosphere.
< 1319806436 280779 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've lost faith in democracy. Or, well, whatever the US system is called.
< 1319806444 438849 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319806446 517075 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319806446 895355 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :229) <l4rk> your premise to falsify "false" is false
< 1319806446 967514 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319806447 392505 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319806447 966275 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote
< 1319806452 811808 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :568) <evincar> elliott_: I don't see a difference between a function taking a function as an argument, and some composition of those functions.
< 1319806452 984083 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :524) <Taneb> So it's like... Rummy mixed with... breakout?
< 1319806463 780681 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :525) <oerjan> i try to be a hermit but it's hard with all these housemates.
< 1319806464 106627 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :695) <Phantom_Hoover> Add a full stop in the middle and it becomes philosophy.
< 1319806464 338192 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: How did you find out the US policy decisions were made on #esoteric?!
< 1319806470 526348 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a best-kept secret.
< 1319806470 599171 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<fizzie> You can't be non-lazy, since there's no way to guarantee in-one-packet delivery; I guess a single send() with a small amount of data is sort of a best-effort thing, though.
< 1319806476 839682 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can; I can just assume it worked.
< 1319806491 757688 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've been slowly uncovering the secret #esoteric cabal for years now.
< 1319806494 444509 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hmm, none of those are massively good
< 1319806509 487533 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 695
< 1319806512 420106 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof*
< 1319806514 880808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :568 looks like the weakest to me.
< 1319806526 526337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: elliott, an obvious choice for figurehead of the #esoteric cabal, is actually a mere puppet to a more sinister force.
< 1319806535 500337 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The qdb has to act as a shrine to people being really stupid, as well as being entertaining.
< 1319806535 572533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, I was about to point out that you added it when I remembered that it was Taneb.
< 1319806540 841705 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise we would forget and forgive.
< 1319806551 690147 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, Gregor takes all the decisions unilaterally, but doesn't know what they mean
< 1319806562 363278 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby decree this a good enough identd: http://sprunge.us/FYDV
< 1319806565 622449 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and #esoteric effectively shapes them by working out what language they're in
< 1319806570 914824 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to use fizzie's clever idea of using the fd values directly to select a new slot.
< 1319806580 783526 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: if it's a shrine of stupidity, why am I not quoted more often?
< 1319806587 323376 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Does that actually let me call poll with a smaller number, though? I guess not.)
< 1319806592 722774 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I can hardly add everything you say.
< 1319806609 666067 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, because you're not stupid as much as thick-headed.
< 1319806638 68772 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cat ,[.,]
< 1319806642 189234 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Not really, no. (Well, I guess you could also keep track of the largest-index non-"-1" entry, but that's not much of a win.)
< 1319806645 557199 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__cat: 6.8
< 1319806653 158308 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why I did that?
< 1319806665 764747 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help bfjoust
< 1319806666 511710 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Sorry, I have no help for bfjoust!
< 1319806716 180982 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have to try to remember what undermine does
< 1319806731 396622 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I think I remember
< 1319806747 952457 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Technically something like "                 12345           ,            12345                  \r\n" is still a legal request, but I'm not sure you need to care about that.
< 1319806757 281035 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, I don't give a damn about that.
< 1319806819 948973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: according to most online dictionaries thick-headed and stupid are pretty much the same thing. :P
< 1319806850 94494 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oops, I forgot to drop privileges after listen().
< 1319806852 526966 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it after bind()?
< 1319806872 638401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, ah, but your problem is that it takes massive effort to actually get you to learn anything, and because of that everything you do learn rattles around in all the empty space and gets mixed up.
< 1319806888 435784 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also is nobody always UID/GID 99?)
< 1319806898 73840 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, wait, should I use "daemon" instead? And is that always UID/GID 2?)
< 1319806939 756304 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd suspect after bind() is enough; and the actual numbers (except perhaps 0) are non-standard.
< 1319806946 537333 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/
< 1319806954 691457 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I will choosed to interpret this as a positive thing in one way or another.
< 1319806963 685206 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And no way to get them other than parsing /etc/passwd?
< 1319806976 343037 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you aren't at risk of joining a cult, I suppose.
< 1319806980 505502 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mixing and combinging of concepts demonstrates true understanding!
< 1319806981 293302 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like getpwnam("nobody")->pw_uid, except maybe with error-checking in-between.
< 1319806993 602289 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure it should be nobody and not daemon?
< 1319806997 967076 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do I need to set the gid...?
< 1319806998 468579 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1319807039 160610 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was that a no to?
< 1319807054 72776 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one. I'm not sure which user account you "should" use.
< 1319807082 777794 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: "nobody" is 65534 on this system
< 1319807099 38968 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is setting the group necessary?
< 1319807114 829859 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find normative questions difficult to answer.
< 1319807143 306964 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Which shirt should I wear?"  "life has no inherent meaning."
< 1319807181 788725 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/IYgT ;; OK, this is slightly better, now to implement the age thing.
< 1319807365 649554 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fallibilism (from medieval Latin fallibilis, "liable to err") is the philosophical principle that human beings could be wrong about their beliefs, expectations, or their understanding of the world.
< 1319807369 683772 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ism.
< 1319807424 446653 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/KCQe
< 1319807436 174978 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This MIGHT even do the oldest-connection thing; I'll let fizzie figure it out. :p
< 1319807443 517216 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the Catholic Church seems to disagree, what with the Pope and all.
< 1319807459 988751 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever become Pope.
< 1319807472 218713 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will just spew logical contradictions all day.
< 1319807491 726654 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm.
< 1319807492 919475 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine2 (+)*9>(+)*9(>[++++[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[>(>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1]]]]]]]](>+++++++[-])*29])*-1
< 1319807493 302705 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems maybe not.
< 1319807495 997232 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__undermine2: 0.0
< 1319807502 441106 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: wow
< 1319807508 9668 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was expecting to do better than that
< 1319807513 400860 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a bug
< 1319807514 587808 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm guessing unmatched paren somewhere
< 1319807519 895748 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319807569 403279 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine2 (+)*9>(+)*9(>[++++[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1]]]]]]]](>+++++++[-])*29])*-1
< 1319807572 657120 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__undermine2: 27.3
< 1319807596 974206 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1319807599 465927 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does the exact wrong thing
< 1319807606 169285 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kills the _newest_ client
< 1319807609 50794 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the one that just connected :)
< 1319807650 717807 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine2 (+)*9>(+)*9(>[>++++[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1]]]]]]]](>+++++++[-])*29])*-1
< 1319807653 801019 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__undermine2: 28.3
< 1319807659 754259 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm
< 1319807660 631740 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh
< 1319807662 451418 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, hardly any change
< 1319807737 345518 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319807771 254205 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine2 (+)*9>(+)*9(>[>++++[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1]]]]]]]]([>]>+++++++[-])*29])*-1
< 1319807774 163292 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__undermine2: 28.1
< 1319807787 972133 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine2 (+)*9>(+)*9(>[[>]++++[-[-[-[--[-[-[-[((>++++[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[-[(-)*120[.-]{}]]]]]]]]])%29)*-1]]]]]]]]([>]>+++++++[-])*29])*-1
< 1319807791 10490 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__undermine2: 20.4
< 1319807797 119570 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, thought that would happen
< 1319807805 179297 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I suppose tracking the ago-order like that is possible. Personally I'd probably have gone with the slightly disoptimal but possibly simpler   int serial = 0; int serials[MAXCONNS]; /* on inserting a new conn */ serials[conn-1] = serial++; /* and then when slots are full, select argmin_i serials[i] */
< 1319807810 986880 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ago/age/
< 1319807819 234476 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awaysh for a couple of hours now.
< 1319807824 78088 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, yes. Duh.
< 1319807827 910778 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's almost certainly cheaper.
< 1319807829 601834 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks.
< 1319807836 975454 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(argmin_i?)
< 1319807847 856583 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust undermine2 <
< 1319807850 879641 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__undermine2: 0.0
< 1319807871 602623 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know, C is a bit verbose for selecting the index with the minimum value; I went with the mathy comment. :p
< 1319807874 775676 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, gone.)
< 1319807883 683082 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Butbutbut wait.
< 1319807888 824754 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :serial eventually overflows like that.
< 1319807891 792762 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no.
< 1319807896 305692 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm, yes.
< 1319807909 464505 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oddrush (>)*8(>>[-])*10
< 1319807912 529155 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__oddrush: 3.1
< 1319807917 969142 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what I expected
< 1319807948 154772 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Well, yes, it does. It'll behave poorly during the wraparound, that's true.
< 1319807962 114368 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is there any way to somehow keep serial low?
< 1319807966 874009 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oddrush (>)*8(>>[+++++[-]])*10
< 1319807970 61439 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__oddrush: 1.8
< 1319807974 850943 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I could... loop through the array again, subtracting the slot picked?
< 1319807979 90832 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's the minimum and all.
< 1319808001 171870 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would work, I think.
< 1319808003 315038 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Yeah, I guess you could do that. And then set 'serial' to max+1.
< 1319808013 208976 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right.
< 1319808023 937899 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now really. ->
< 1319808055 149183 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :serial = 0;
< 1319808055 286228 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    for (size_t i = 0; i < NELEMS(serials); i++) {
< 1319808055 358799 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                        serials[i] -= slot;
< 1319808055 358971 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                        if (serials[i] > serial)
< 1319808055 359080 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            serial = serials[i];
< 1319808056 165526 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    }
< 1319808057 974098 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    serial++;
< 1319808059 909106 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly. :(
< 1319808080 342972 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Here, you prettify that.
< 1319808081 685503 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p
< 1319808151 66807 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you want to slotserial = serials[slot]; ... serials[i] -= slotserial; ... assuming slot is the index here, I'unno. If it's the smallest serial, then that's a different thing, of course.
< 1319808154 218858 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really really. -> ->
< 1319808204 906121 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oddsyncrush (>)*7(>>[-[++[+++[-]]](>[-[++[+++[-]]]])*20])*11
< 1319808207 901633 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__oddsyncrush: 18.1
< 1319808216 546141 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strategy is going somewhere!
< 1319808294 66685 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ, it's doing the same again
< 1319808300 441182 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, right, thanks
< 1319808314 299680 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oddsyncrush (+)*9>(+)*6>(>)*5(>>[-[++[+++[-]]](>[-[++[+++[-]]]])*20])*11
< 1319808317 345784 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__oddsyncrush: 22.5
< 1319808368 212797 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    size_t minserial = 0;
< 1319808368 327604 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    for (size_t i = 0; i < NELEMS(serials); i++) {
< 1319808368 400186 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                        if (!ok || serials[i] < minserial) {
< 1319808368 400353 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            ok = true;
< 1319808369 664018 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            slot = i;
< 1319808371 793957 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            minserial = serials[i];
< 1319808373 640900 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                        }
< 1319808375 625233 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    }
< 1319808377 623357 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    size_t maxserial = 0;
< 1319808379 629496 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    for (size_t i = 0; i < NELEMS(serials); i++) {
< 1319808381 651810 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                        serials[i] -= minserial;
< 1319808383 632385 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                        if (serials[i] > maxserial)
< 1319808385 661233 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                            maxserial = serials[i];
< 1319808387 668015 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    }
< 1319808389 644073 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    serial = maxserial + 1;
< 1319808391 644635 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :                    drop(&clients[slot]);
< 1319808393 647667 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PERFECT
< 1319808395 667028 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is funny because it pulls fizzie back.
< 1319808417 544047 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IT DOES THE SAME
< 1319808418 10882 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW
< 1319808433 757620 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oddsyncrush (+)*9>(+)*6>(>)*5(>>[>[-[++[+++[-]]]](>[-[++[+++[-]]]])*20])*11
< 1319808436 992270 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__oddsyncrush: 22.3
< 1319808460 324997 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oddsyncrush (+)*9>(+)*6>(>)*5(>>[>[-[++[+++[-]]](>[-[++[+++[-]]]])*20]])*11
< 1319808463 301753 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__oddsyncrush: 20.6
< 1319808469 782322 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm
< 1319808510 335596 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesss, it works.
< 1319808558 315418 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust (+)*9>(+)*6>(>)*5(>>[(>[-[++[+++[-]]](>[-[++[+++[-]]]])*20])*20])*11
< 1319808559 9675 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program> . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/
< 1319808564 523448 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oddsyncrush (+)*9>(+)*6>(>)*5(>>[(>[-[++[+++[-]]](>[-[++[+++[-]]]])*20])*20])*11
< 1319808567 796309 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__oddsyncrush: 22.3
< 1319808585 655721 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant, but it doesn't seem to have helped much
< 1319808615 177652 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fSJR
< 1319808620 505090 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada.
< 1319808627 580026 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oddsyncrush <
< 1319808629 830478 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please feel free to tell me how hideously broken it is.
< 1319808630 656620 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__oddsyncrush: 0.0
< 1319808651 635139 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319808655 931739 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319808670 307043 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (>>>>[>+++++[-]])*7
< 1319808673 228740 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 0.7
< 1319808684 87702 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (>>>>[(>+++++[-]])*20)*7
< 1319808687 264634 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 0.0
< 1319808694 602055 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (>>>>[(>+++++[-])*20])*7
< 1319808697 861868 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 8.3
< 1319808705 190339 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (>>>[(>+++++[-])*20])*7
< 1319808708 204315 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 11.4
< 1319808750 607702 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, it beats most of my programs
< 1319808752 767604 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not a lot of others
< 1319808766 778284 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you can figure out who's written a program just from its decoy setup pattern
< 1319808785 547796 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7
< 1319808788 608418 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 12.2
< 1319808809 435568 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor_ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys.bfjoust vs ais523__collision.bfjoust ><<><<><<><<><<<<>>>> ><<><<><<><<><<<<>>>> 6
< 1319808816 475163 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, /that's/ a bizarre patter nof wins and losses
< 1319808818 602517 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pattern
< 1319808843 467852 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*9
< 1319808846 568088 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 16.2
< 1319808855 422346 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't believe I got /that/ wrong...
< 1319808873 580141 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*9(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808876 695347 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 16.3
< 1319808905 117294 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>>>(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808908 216457 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 13.0
< 1319808919 294366 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >++>>>>>(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808922 502466 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 13.4
< 1319808934 236356 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >..>>>>>(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808937 344859 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 15.0
< 1319808943 99738 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right
< 1319808950 803618 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >.>>(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808953 940923 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 16.3
< 1319808960 232855 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >->>(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808963 355123 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 15.2
< 1319808969 197181 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>->(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808972 240207 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 15.6
< 1319808979 316129 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>-(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808982 457979 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 16.7
< 1319808985 478633 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :decoys hurting is never a good sign
< 1319808989 539612 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>--(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319808992 743533 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 16.3
< 1319808996 716147 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in this case, seems I just have to put them a long way from the flag
< 1319809002 524718 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reasons I don't fully understand
< 1319809008 592507 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(->>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809011 686776 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 18.8
< 1319809018 643398 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoo, trails help!
< 1319809022 250577 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(->>+>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809025 458191 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 20.3
< 1319809043 66414 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(->>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809045 987593 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 21.9
< 1319809051 158398 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809054 251999 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 22.5
< 1319809063 418704 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809066 600383 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 24.4
< 1319809075 26666 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm expecting that to hurt
< 1319809077 400772 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't
< 1319809089 152806 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20]-----)*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809092 247533 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 22.3
< 1319809097 264973 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20]--)*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809100 378050 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 23.3
< 1319809105 901241 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(>+>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20]--)*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809108 860282 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 23.7
< 1319809118 720137 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809121 851701 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 25.3
< 1319809129 133915 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>++++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809132 350025 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 23.9
< 1319809136 539141 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->>++++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809139 941562 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 21.3
< 1319809144 218646 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1319809150 620826 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(->->++++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809153 827248 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 23.3
< 1319809160 650732 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319809163 991129 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 25.3
< 1319809176 796139 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, putting too many +s there just speeds up enemy offset clears on one polarity
< 1319809312 515258 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7(>[+++++[-]])*5
< 1319809315 654065 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 24.9
< 1319809331 140889 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*6(>[+++++[-]])*8
< 1319809334 320790 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 24.4
< 1319809367 691186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says a lot about how retarded WE (at least some of us ) in the U.S. are when a people that still has Kings and Queens
< 1319809370 665887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :believes in and practices evolution.
< 1319809373 428849 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :--comment on NPR article
< 1319809383 216081 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to participate in evolution.
< 1319809383 625014 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*6(<<(+)*40)*6(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*8
< 1319809386 824220 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 19.8
< 1319809396 536262 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*6(<(-)*40<(+)*40)*6(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*8
< 1319809399 512290 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 19.8
< 1319809427 117039 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*6(<)*12((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*8
< 1319809430 207232 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 24.2
< 1319809469 620464 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*5(<)*9((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*15(>[+++++[-]])*8
< 1319809472 768341 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 20.5
< 1319809477 638737 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*6(<)*12((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*8
< 1319809480 667221 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 24.2
< 1319809488 288881 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7(<)*12((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*5
< 1319809491 415221 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 25.3
< 1319809535 472554 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the next improvement is a better clear loop
< 1319809554 983295 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[-[++++++[-]]])*20])*7(<)*12((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*5
< 1319809558 49457 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 20.7
< 1319809569 107179 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[-[++++[-]]])*20])*7(<)*12((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*5
< 1319809572 265575 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 18.1
< 1319809577 701627 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7(<)*12((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*5
< 1319809580 723173 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 25.3
< 1319809587 210059 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I need to see what sort of clear is needed
< 1319809708 308432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319809735 98681 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I'm alive
< 1319809758 221911 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> Ngevd: is it actually written in Piet? <-- going to be. I've only barely started, still learning the protocol
< 1319809771 699591 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_ ^^^
< 1319809804 766432 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7(>[+++++[-]])*5
< 1319809807 905001 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 13.6
< 1319809815 71148 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*7(<)*12((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*5
< 1319809818 329603 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 25.3
< 1319809832 465201 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*13((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*18(>[+++++[-]])*5
< 1319809835 443158 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.5
< 1319809856 601609 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(+>+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*11((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*17(>[+++++[-]])*6
< 1319809859 949346 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.8
< 1319809907 268408 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(->+++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*11((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*17(>[+++++[-]])*6
< 1319809910 308396 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.6
< 1319809916 858788 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(--+>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*11((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*17(>[+++++[-]])*6
< 1319809919 761907 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.5
< 1319809925 67584 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*11((-)*100<(+)*100)*3(>)*17(>[+++++[-]])*6
< 1319809928 34325 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 30.0
< 1319809939 820938 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that 2 is the sweet spot for trails
< 1319809994 285086 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*9(<<(-)*100)*3(>(+)*100>)*3(>)*9(>[+++++[-]])*6
< 1319809997 497949 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.5
< 1319810004 192299 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*9(<<(+)*100)*3(>(-)*100>)*3(>)*9(>[+++++[-]])*6
< 1319810007 61571 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.5
< 1319810016 334928 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*9(<<(+)*100)*4(>(-)*100>)*4(>)*9(>[+++++[-]])*6
< 1319810019 477211 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.1
< 1319810035 955536 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*10(<)*9(<(+)*100<)*3((-)*100>>)*3(>)*9(>[+++++[-]])*6
< 1319810039 107507 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.5
< 1319810071 405597 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*11(<)*9(<(+)*100<)*3((-)*100>>)*3(>)*9(>[+++++[-]])*4
< 1319810074 516085 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.9
< 1319810082 396897 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*12(<)*9(<(+)*100<)*3((-)*100>>)*3(>)*9(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810085 519101 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 30.4
< 1319810093 341800 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*13
< 1319810096 489901 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 30.4
< 1319810108 789148 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*12(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810111 846797 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 30.4
< 1319810121 62995 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I guess that case never really comes up
< 1319810160 832906 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does a channel message look like to a client?
< 1319810186 800015 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: privmsg to channel?
< 1319810189 537462 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the ones I'm sending now
< 1319810222 956057 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure
< 1319810242 996898 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*20<(-)*40<(+)*60<(-)*80>>>(-->++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*12(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810245 905371 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 34.8
< 1319810250 129681 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try a slower version of the same idea
< 1319810256 305031 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice one
< 1319810261 970853 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*20<(-)*40<(+)*60<(-)*80>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810264 763205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on, is a high score good?
< 1319810265 37756 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 37.3
< 1319810269 395935 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, higher is better
< 1319810284 397663 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >+>+>(-)*20<(-)*40<(+)*60<(-)*80>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810287 648497 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 34.6
< 1319810298 194749 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>+<(-)*20<(-)*40<(+)*60<(-)*80>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810301 346947 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 32.7
< 1319810309 113111 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*20<(-)*40<(+)*60<(-)*80>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810312 367995 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 37.3
< 1319810321 161746 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*20<(-)*40<(+)*40<(-)*40>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810324 167518 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 37.4
< 1319810337 271717 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*20<(-)*40<(+)*40<(-)*20>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810340 372053 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 37.0
< 1319810347 63700 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*40<(+)*40<(-)*20>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810350 359504 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 37.7
< 1319810351 861049 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D83B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319810361 826753 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810365 26804 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 38.5
< 1319810380 451245 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>(-->++>++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*6(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810383 563119 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 33.2
< 1319810398 20228 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>(-->++>++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*6(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810401 64767 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 36.1
< 1319810416 541746 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(-->++>++>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810419 597189 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 38.4
< 1319810425 702784 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810428 790704 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 39.0
< 1319810440 359207 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this strategy is looking promising
< 1319810449 775293 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's still with a hastily thrown-together clear loop
< 1319810540 213072 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, projects cannot ship source tarballs with their Arch PKGBUILD file, I think
< 1319810598 938211 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because PKGBUILDs contain checksums of the tarballs
< 1319810636 185439 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[+[+[+[----[-[-[(-)*100(-)]]]]]]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810639 303989 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 10.8
< 1319810648 981472 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, reverse offset clear does /that/ badly?
< 1319810654 573221 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[+++++[-]])*20])*8(>[+++++[-]])*2
< 1319810657 732364 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 39.0
< 1319810674 108695 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[++++++[-]])*20])*8(>[++++++[-]])*2
< 1319810677 221379 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 39.5
< 1319810677 293678 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that makes sense
< 1319810693 54374 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*7[-]])*20])*8(>[(+)*7[-]])*2
< 1319810696 207769 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 39.4
< 1319810702 167241 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*8(>[(+)*10[-]])*2
< 1319810705 410895 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 43.5
< 1319810709 226096 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, hmm
< 1319810712 397221 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to handle this at all
< 1319810717 415395 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*12[-]])*20])*8(>[(+)*12[-]])*2
< 1319810720 346027 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 40.0
< 1319810725 751844 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*15[-]])*20])*8(>[(+)*15[-]])*2
< 1319810728 883127 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.3
< 1319810741 618692 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*18[-]])*20])*8(>[(+)*18[-]])*2
< 1319810744 712594 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 40.7
< 1319810751 381531 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*8(>[(+)*10[-]])*2
< 1319810754 372049 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 43.5
< 1319810792 736337 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's eighth now
< 1319810794 255130 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just above undermine
< 1319810809 752240 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have a habit of inventing new strategies and running them up to the bottom of the top ten
< 1319810824 422718 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain how this works
< 1319810848 19375 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how what works? the BF Joust program?
< 1319810851 466810 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1319810881 580431 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :set up decoys, adjust flag, then check every third cell for the opponent's decoys, when you find it move forward one cell and start a clear loop
< 1319810895 14615 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that it's going to skip, "randomly" based on the tape length, 0, 1, or 2 decoys
< 1319810902 853479 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives it an advantage over an opponent who doesn't skip any
< 1319810915 942742 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*8(>[(+)*10[-]])*1
< 1319810918 966247 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.2
< 1319810927 524569 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I just noticed an off-by-one, even better
< 1319810939 965782 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*10[-]])*4
< 1319810942 891606 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.2
< 1319810959 293297 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319810962 650021 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.2
< 1319810963 657796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: how does that not suicide on some playing fields?
< 1319810972 615464 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you check every third cell.
< 1319810977 651168 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: most programs set decoys near their flags
< 1319810984 799856 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suicides if the opponent sets fewer than two decoys
< 1319810987 674368 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how many programs do that?
< 1319810999 853536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My one, I think
< 1319811009 298247 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the basic idea of BF Joust, is that anything that opponents do consistently, you can take advantage of
< 1319811015 356676 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program that sets no decoys typically won't do well
< 1319811016 383879 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my bfjoust programs are some kind of rush clear-everything program.
< 1319811023 455422 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, you may as well assume that opposing programs tend to set decoys
< 1319811056 547471 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>)*99
< 1319811059 530193 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.2
< 1319811064 410949 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, my one isn't on the scoreboard any more
< 1319811067 942472 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I /thought/ that last bit made no difference
< 1319811072 822142 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the real question is: would this beat space elevator?
< 1319811078 371677 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*30<(-)*30>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811081 630044 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.2
< 1319811107 640910 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523__collision.bfjoust vs quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust <><<>>>><<<<<<><>>><> <><<>>>><>><<<><>>><> -2 ais523__collision.bfjoust wins.
< 1319811117 146529 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it does beat space_elevator, /just/
< 1319811145 25470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :admirable work.
< 1319811172 785513 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you could also suicide on some decoy patterns.
< 1319811191 485140 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, I just remembered why I don't open space_elevator in egojsout
< 1319811196 212431 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes, but nobody uses them
< 1319811198 381079 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps they should
< 1319811234 463229 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: space_elevator is the most beautiful jouster in terms of code elegance.
< 1319811242 519014 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think so?
< 1319811246 532457 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely.
< 1319811253 592936 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have a tendency to make huge ridiculous jousters
< 1319811256 943254 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even provides comments!
< 1319811261 129170 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a soft spot for the short ones
< 1319811266 270167 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my long ones tend to be commented too
< 1319811301 60510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing [ and ] jumps don't count as turns right?
< 1319811324 929235 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they did the complex logic of large jousters would be at a disadvantage to dumb rushers.
< 1319811330 422388 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of [ and ] takes one step
< 1319811332 819929 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really fundamental
< 1319811336 855336 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh
< 1319811338 392266 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise there's no reason not to put [ and ] everywhere
< 1319811355 491036 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't at a disadvantage to dumb rushers, because dumb rushers are easily tricked
< 1319811369 286976 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to being dumb
< 1319811401 980512 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like they'd be moving too fast for you to do anything about them if your code has 20 nested loops.
< 1319811413 275143 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that's the issue
< 1319811422 380252 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dumb rusher has issues determining if it's found the flag
< 1319811432 920210 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing something like [-] can hold you up for 510 cycles, worst-case
< 1319811443 54329 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely because of the time penalty of doing ]
< 1319811462 947298 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right
< 1319811472 11358 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there'd be no difference between the different kinds of clears otherwise
< 1319811478 689349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from the nops
< 1319811495 241520 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*20<(+)*20<(-)*30>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811498 64457 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 40.7
< 1319811508 807385 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*30<(-)*30<(+)*40<(-)*30>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811511 745618 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 41.4
< 1319811523 349117 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*33<(-)*33<(+)*33<(-)*33>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811526 459518 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 43.7
< 1319811527 533097 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
< 1319811537 109201 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*33<(-)*35<(+)*35<(-)*22>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811540 166042 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 41.6
< 1319811545 897946 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just experimenting a bit
< 1319811554 892948 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*31<(-)*31<(+)*31<(-)*31>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811558 90612 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319811568 35817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should Pietbot do...
< 1319811568 965326 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811572 29893 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 43.7
< 1319811577 895487 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement an esolang of your choice
< 1319811582 690286 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811585 861962 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319811597 397960 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*33<(-)*33<(+)*33<(-)*22>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811600 360219 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.3
< 1319811611 577727 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: run Piet programs via IRC command lines.
< 1319811611 945959 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*34<(-)*34<(+)*34<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811614 862629 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 43.4
< 1319811624 216982 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811627 446181 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319811634 102595 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's stick with that version for the decoy setup
< 1319811659 473515 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811662 410389 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 38.8
< 1319811668 668919 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming by using the same name over and over you're overwriting the old ones and therefore not jousting the 20 million old iterations of your program?
< 1319811681 243714 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that loses to ill_bet_you_have_four_decoys
< 1319811682 634914 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having four decoys
< 1319811685 614764 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's it
< 1319811687 849891 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811691 15238 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319811722 823623 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>>>(-)*32<<(-)*32<<(+)*32<<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811725 676161 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 35.5
< 1319811731 414862 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just curious
< 1319811737 152310 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>>>(-)*32<-<(-)*32<-<(+)*32<-<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811740 322220 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 35.9
< 1319811744 670620 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319811748 35370 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319811755 782359 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have no idea why
< 1319811755 971889 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like that is indeed the perfect decoy setup
< 1319811820 472957 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tried using different cell skip intervals?
< 1319811829 197169 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a non-constant interval?
< 1319811876 671678 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but given the current competitors on the hill it's unlikely to make much difference
< 1319811891 406648 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much everyone checks for small decoys behind large ones nowadays
< 1319811918 360667 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er I was referring to your offense.
< 1319811924 306767 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1319811936 676105 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried different intervals, but not a varying one
< 1319811949 242893 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why a varying one would help, though, given the tape length randomization
< 1319811953 839408 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319811958 248996 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319812009 242210 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can get collision to the top of the hill, anyway; its strategy is fundamentally beaten by slowpoke's
< 1319812032 51010 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't see how it would hurt though. basically the smaller tape lengths cut off your cell skip function.
< 1319812036 951379 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FFSPG for much the same reason (they're similar programs, even if they were invented independently)
< 1319812041 730700 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I don't think it'd hurt either
< 1319812047 96342 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that you're using a suboptimal interval
< 1319812058 477306 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, on longer tapes, the opponent will have had more time to set up decoys…
< 1319812086 445488 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's what I mean. the interval can change once it gets into longer tape lengths.
< 1319812091 614901 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*3(>>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*3(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812094 588521 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 38.6
< 1319812095 939256 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try it
< 1319812098 613296 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319812105 270914 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't really seem to help…
< 1319812125 252945 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only tried one. :P
< 1319812135 979299 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*3(>>>>[([(+)*10[-]])*20])*3(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812136 971811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT KIND OF BFJOUST SCIENCE IS THAT.
< 1319812138 914555 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 29.3
< 1319812143 64001 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops
< 1319812146 75351 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*3(>>>>[([(+)*10[-]]>)*20])*3(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812149 147416 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 40.7
< 1319812167 757784 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's just falling off the tape too much
< 1319812176 44053 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vast majority of programs don't set more decoys on longer tapes
< 1319812180 162077 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.
< 1319812196 586150 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812199 682247 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319812223 389339 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'll try something a bit different, it'll probably hurt but might help
< 1319812259 871138 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[-[-[+++[+[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20]]]]])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812262 903493 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 36.7
< 1319812268 787805 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just loses too much speed
< 1319812272 934440 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319812285 303765 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[-[-[+++[+[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20]]]]<<])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812288 446626 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 36.9
< 1319812306 913123 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[-[-[+++[+[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20]]]]>])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812310 42805 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 41.7
< 1319812322 240859 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a bad tactic, just not as good as doing it the normal way
< 1319812330 488909 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[-[-[+++[+[([(+)*10[-]])*20]]]]>])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812331 167067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: on a longer tape the optimal thing to do would be to skip a large number of cells early, but on a short tape this is a bad idea.
< 1319812333 702573 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 30.0
< 1319812341 516664 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[-[-[+++[+[([(+)*10[-]]>)*20]]]]>])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812344 711760 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.3
< 1319812344 783923 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... yeah. varying skip distance probably can't work for all tape lengths.
< 1319812347 594754 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: right
< 1319812402 451498 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812405 717336 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319812416 395096 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's beginning to reach the point where I'll have to start targeting specific programs to do better
< 1319812443 443620 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowpoke is a good start.
< 1319812462 571645 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowpoke's unbeatable with this strategy
< 1319812481 178714 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lays a large trail, which nullifies the advantage of skipping forwards
< 1319812489 839856 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and detecting it would /also/ nullify the advantage of skipping forwards
< 1319812524 55725 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: skip at distances that are a reverse of a fibonacci subsequence
< 1319812526 587193 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and, uh,
< 1319812527 624471 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1319812531 94524 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the extent of my idea
< 1319812540 159976 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't thought anything through. :P
< 1319812590 304286 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>>>(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812593 359413 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 40.3
< 1319812605 376777 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>>>(+)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812608 753877 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 41.6
< 1319812616 77947 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>+>+>(+)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812619 229918 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.8
< 1319812627 566878 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying a really heavy decoy setup
< 1319812641 151837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: try a fiboacci sequence decoy setup
< 1319812643 425455 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>+>+>->(-)*32<(+)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812646 377063 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.9
< 1319812648 991237 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is better when it's a fibonacci sequence.
< 1319812654 166682 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>+>+>->(-)*12<(+)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812657 558523 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.0
< 1319812687 762606 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>+>+>->(-)*32<(+)*32<(+)*32<(-)*60<(-)*60<(-)*60<(+)*60<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812690 917679 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 40.4
< 1319812707 580859 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :les  32 32 32 more 1 1 2 3 5 8 13
< 1319812707 952002 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>+>+>->(-)*32<(+)*32<(+)*32<<<<<(-)*28>>>>(-)*60<(-)*60<(-)*60<(+)*60>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812711 47984 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 41.3
< 1319812714 768848 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :less
< 1319812756 988222 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>>>(+)*5<(+)*8<(-)*13<(-)*21<(-)*34<(+)*45<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812759 932366 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 37.8
< 1319812762 973276 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319812763 887906 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy? (the 28 is on the flag)
< 1319812766 231634 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO REVERSE IT.
< 1319812777 723995 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that's really stupid the way decoy setups work, but OK
< 1319812783 884611 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319812793 693298 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1319812794 102265 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>>>>(+)*45<(+)*34<(-)*21<(-)*13<(-)*8<(+)*5<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812794 836464 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh, yes it is.
< 1319812795 209435 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving"
< 1319812797 102204 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 34.4
< 1319812810 110073 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812812 993795 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319812823 958622 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no reason for the decoys to differ in size at all, that I can see
< 1319812863 16593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps to spend fewer steps setting them up
< 1319812896 568040 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*5>>>[<<<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4](-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812898 451858 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some jousters handle large/small decoys differently, or something.
< 1319812899 712649 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.9
< 1319812922 697902 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*5>+>+>[<<<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4](-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812925 913440 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.6
< 1319812949 18083 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*5>+>->[<<<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4](-)*32<(-)*31<(+)*31<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319812952 133146 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 43.2
< 1319812954 489804 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319812974 370154 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pietbot is now registered
< 1319813006 574058 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (-)*5>>>>>>[<<<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*23>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4](-)*6<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*23>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319813009 688811 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 40.1
< 1319813037 799860 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (-)*5>>>>>>[<<<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*23>>>>>>(>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*10(>[(+)*100[+]])*5](-)*6<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*23>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319813040 789041 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 42.2
< 1319813058 239275 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (-)*5>>>>>>[<<<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*23>>>>>>(>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*10(>[(+)*100[+]])*5](-)*6<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*23>>>>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*6(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319813061 185929 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 36.5
< 1319813074 783551 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision (-)*5>>>>>>[<<<(-)*27<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*23>>>>>>(>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*10(>[(+)*100[+]])*5](-)*6<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*23>>>>>>>(>>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*5(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319813077 897483 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 35.5
< 1319813085 856625 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that isn't really going to work all that well, I think
< 1319813093 822916 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319813096 846728 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319813101 673948 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not enough fibonacci
< 1319813123 525245 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it!
< 1319813129 343231 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*50<(-)*50<(+)*50<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319813132 454825 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 40.1
< 1319813149 415653 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*100<(+)*100<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319813152 553722 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 38.7
< 1319813173 611767 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :try n!/2
< 1319813189 689129 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust collision >>>(-)*32<(-)*32<(+)*32<(-)*28>>>>>>(>>>[(>[(+)*10[-]])*20])*7(>[(+)*100[+]])*4
< 1319813192 796473 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523__collision: 44.4
< 1319813195 811907 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just leave it like that until I have any other amazing ideas
< 1319813197 235243 :derrik!~xix@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee PART :#esoteric
< 1319813207 325370 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map fac [1..]
< 1319813208 811939 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,2,6,24,120,720,5040,40320,362880,3628800,39916800,479001600,6227020800,8...
< 1319813232 668982 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map (div 2 . fac) [1..]
< 1319813234 521911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [2,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,...
< 1319813242 433068 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map (flip div 2 . fac) [1..]
< 1319813244 344959 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,3,12,60,360,2520,20160,181440,1814400,19958400,239500800,3113510400,43...
< 1319813251 505696 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. best decoy setup.
< 1319813261 84865 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319813270 195451 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319813274 427341 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't; 360 is an utterly mindblowingly stupid size for a decoy
< 1319813280 51608 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2520 is even worse
< 1319813289 188283 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(making them more than 256 only makes sense as part of a lock algorithm)
< 1319813301 377207 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and even then, is generally suboptimal)
< 1319813303 595548 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map (flip mod 256 . flip div 2 . fac) [1..]
< 1319813305 204735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,3,12,60,104,216,192,192,128,128,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,...
< 1319813323 789208 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, outside lock algos, making them more than 128's a bit silly
< 1319813329 531080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319813332 417883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works!
< 1319813335 802672 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map (flip mod 128 . flip div 2 . fac) [1..]
< 1319813337 426046 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,3,12,60,104,88,64,64,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0...
< 1319813338 150283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't!
< 1319813338 921360 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It = ?
< 1319813357 152906 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map (\x -> fac x - fac (x-1)) [1..]
< 1319813358 355986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,4,18,96,600,4320,35280,322560,3265920,36288000,439084800,5748019200,80...
< 1319813385 287689 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah!
< 1319813392 606150 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no!
< 1319813396 446249 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a good decoy setup either
< 1319813397 495362 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ?
< 1319813405 26907 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map (\x -> (fac x - fac (x-1))/2) [1..]
< 1319813406 301931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0.0,0.5,2.0,9.0,48.0,300.0,2160.0,17640.0,161280.0,1632960.0,1.8144e7,2.19...
< 1319813411 595739 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map (flip mod 128 . liftM2 (-) fac (fac . pred)) [1..]
< 1319813413 241074 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,1,4,18,96,88,96,80,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0...
< 1319813422 30308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ ls -lh /etc/rc.d/noidentd
< 1319813422 102736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 890 Oct 28 15:46 /etc/rc.d/noidentd
< 1319813422 102899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ cat /etc/rc.d/noinetd
< 1319813422 103006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /etc/rc.d/noinetd: No such file or directory
< 1319813424 647650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the /fuck/?
< 1319813425 774732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = product [1..n] in map (\x -> (fac x - fac (x-1)) `div` 2) [1..]
< 1319813427 124003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [0,0,2,9,48,300,2160,17640,161280,1632960,18144000,219542400,2874009600,404...
< 1319813438 283001 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: noidentd != noinetd
< 1319813444 923934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1319813447 35673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite so
< 1319813460 372796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319813464 780810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319813470 556824 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = sum [1..n] in map fac [1..]
< 1319813471 705262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,27...
< 1319813474 839649 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, no ~
< 1319813485 986247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319813487 94334 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but given that you're cloaked, the identd doesn't make a whole lot of sense
< 1319813502 970435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I was under the impression that have to use interesting mathematical sequences to win at bfjoust
< 1319813505 905560 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fac n = sum [1..n] in map (flip mod 128 . fac) [1..]
< 1319813507 333926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I misunderstand the game.
< 1319813507 747200 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  [1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,8,25,43,62,82,103,125,20,44,69...
< 1319813548 182429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319813552 527438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect.
< 1319813564 647346 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was right last time too
< 1319813572 823118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it didn't start on boot.
< 1319813610 537347 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a fast reboot
< 1319813612 17295 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's a reasonable decoy sequence no?
< 1319813616 905952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes, it was :)
< 1319813620 247197 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 might be too small
< 1319813636 334804 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is sometimes OK for a first decoy
< 1319813641 738723 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem there is you're going to lose on short tapes
< 1319813751 74918 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a decoy of 1 take more time to set up than it (in the best case scenario) affords?
< 1319813815 594284 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no; it sends the opponent into either a small decoy detection loop or their offset clear
< 1319813840 508278 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll typically gain 10-20 cycles if they offset clear, and around 3-10 for a small decoy detection loop (depending on if they get the polarity right first try or not)
< 1319813983 22262 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if bfjoust programs were sentient
< 1319813991 760827 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What bot prefix symbol should I use?
< 1319813998 72208 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"�"?
< 1319814004 343385 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think $ is in use here
< 1319814012 436433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You should try my package it will give you endless money, riches, and ident.
< 1319814019 364425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially money and riches.
< 1319814021 55810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could win by creating a program that generates beautiful treatises on various topics of relevance to sentient computer culture.
< 1319814021 187094 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could always use zero-width-space
< 1319814039 730732 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you're feeling especially evil, right-to-left-override
< 1319814041 900998 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the enemies would hastily try to take notes.
< 1319814046 780285 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sit in awe.
< 1319814088 67036 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The stan rune is the best character for anything.
< 1319814146 234773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ or # would be good for an actual command prefix
< 1319814163 319470 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ( would be good in that it would be hilariously ugly.
< 1319814167 933201 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :# often gets pasted in here
< 1319814175 125969 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as part of shell commands
< 1319814180 445349 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and lines often start with an opening paren)
< 1319814190 573619 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) could work, I guess
< 1319814216 646117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=53492 AW MAN LOOK AT THAT I'M LIKE SOME KIND OF MAGICIAN
< 1319814217 710555 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't $ start shell prompts?
< 1319814226 502027 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or end them rather.
< 1319814230 741213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSTALL OR DIE
< 1319814233 499292 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right
< 1319814238 92218 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using too much OCaml recently
< 1319814242 635405 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has a # as its prompt
< 1319814257 40956 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why ident
< 1319814258 583721 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319814259 510646 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :# would be fine then, unless people start pasting a lot of CPP directives.
< 1319814277 574862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You know how freenode and other IRC servers pause for a couple of seconds whenever you connect??
< 1319814281 956962 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No
< 1319814286 378980 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THEY DO
< 1319814290 850731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An identd COMPLETELY ELIMINATES THAT WOOO
< 1319814298 847117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO, the ~ before your username disappears on freenode.
< 1319814302 361843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means you're special.
< 1319814309 942322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, reconnections are instant now, this is so much less annoying.
< 1319814310 424761 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, no good reason
< 1319814322 895132 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOT IT THANKS
< 1319814334 401813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's one yaourt and a vi /etc/conf.d/noidentd and an rc.d start noidentd!!!!
< 1319814343 975930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nothing!!!!! That's LESS THAN NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!
< 1319814407 39633 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :: would be a good command prefix, but could possibly conflict with :t
< 1319814515 62856 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but NOTHING is less than NOTHING!!!!!
< 1319814519 643625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Surely YOU know the call of idents fine fellow????
< 1319814532 755302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET ME INTEREST YOU IN NOIDENTD, THE SMALLEST SELF-CONTAINED FAKE IDENTD ANYWHERE _OR YOU MONEY BACK!!!!!!_
< 1319814533 432901 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I do now?
< 1319814559 881293 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant login does sound nice.
< 1319814571 445147 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not what an identd does, is it?
< 1319814574 208360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/login/connect/
< 1319814622 446205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yes, it does
< 1319814630 16312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode wastes like two to three seconds trying to connect to your identd
< 1319814634 339346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it succeeds, it goes through instantly
< 1319814639 862880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hit reconnect and watch the server log
< 1319814642 273962 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1319814644 401819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pauses after can't resolve hostname
< 1319814648 204987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the identd connection
< 1319814655 259417 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't it do that for nickserv identifies, where it'd actually be useful?
< 1319814659 621868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one installation of noidentd and CONNECTIONS ARE INSTANT FOREVER!!!!!!
< 1319814671 907870 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, all ports are firewalled or NATted inbound on all connections i use
< 1319814673 466270 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically both
< 1319814675 379026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: because irc is stupid
< 1319814677 663064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also
< 1319814678 868898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COULD
< 1319814678 982100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ER
< 1319814681 377584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT!!!!!
< 1319814682 329961 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so noidentd wouldn't be particularly useful
< 1319814685 445147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet FINE FELLOW!!!!
< 1319814695 278506 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to sleep...
< 1319814700 682937 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE LATER GENTLEPERSON.
< 1319814710 60595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOOD DAAAAAMN IIIIIT
< 1319814722 722001 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is a very good damn it.
< 1319814728 187881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE BEST
< 1319814734 928283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant SLIGHTLY LESS FINE FELLOW!
< 1319814738 148182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You all suck.
< 1319814757 473862 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running splint on your code
< 1319814764 106308 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noidentd is some kind of botnet virus isn't it?
< 1319814825 883565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: splint complains about everything, but it's pretty unobjectionable code :P
< 1319814905 164413 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finished checking --- 28 code warnings
< 1319814905 294187 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :   34 internal bugs reported
< 1319814909 858203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D
< 1319814911 629194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme the report
< 1319814912 555798 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't like /usr/include/bits/confname.h
< 1319814918 893481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ais523_ can attest to splint's uselessness :P
< 1319814946 349281 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: These line numbers won't match, I had to un-C99 your variable declarations
< 1319814948 27045 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be very useful if it weren't so buggy
< 1319814952 285904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: lol
< 1319814973 858246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319814978 679480 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way that splint detected more bugs in itself than in elliott's code
< 1319814979 314157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319814984 209190 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523_> I like the way that splint detected more bugs in itself than in elliott's code
< 1319814985 950328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1319814992 255063 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319814996 246312 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AT MY SPEEEEDY RECONNECTS
< 1319814998 240533 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops
< 1319815043 618485 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.230.99 NICK :elliott
< 1319815045 577165 :elliott!elliott@95.149.230.99 QUIT :Changing host
< 1319815045 649681 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319815068 867192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, at what reporting level?
< 1319815073 293298 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319815082 774734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal!!! Tell me you're on an Arch machine.
< 1319815084 475076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, also was that per line of code or in total?
< 1319815086 516039 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Report: http://sprunge.us/Uied  Modified code: http://sprunge.us/GaDZ
< 1319815103 6034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nope, I'm on ubuntu on my laptop and windows 7 on my desktop atm. Playing ARMA 2
< 1319815103 897197 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Command line: $ splint +posixlib -systemdirs /usr/include -systemdirerrors +trytorecover noidentd.c)
< 1319815105 996982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hahaha jesus
< 1319815121 914704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It compiles with clang -std=c99 -pedantic -Wall -Wextra, that's good enough for me :P
< 1319815127 354693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, as in, without warning
< 1319815131 741203 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Without the +trytorecover it just dies on the first internal bug)
< 1319815138 746107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice
< 1319815142 298268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why did you want me to be on an arch machine?
< 1319815153 546000 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in global scope as expected: Un-unparseable context: 10
< 1319815156 999515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NOIDENTD!!!! It's the best identd since sliced identd!!! But it's not an identd!!
< 1319815167 401104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what?
< 1319815218 424341 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay it's running but I'm not going to reconnect
< 1319815231 674746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Just connect with another client :P
< 1319815253 991393 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh and also it's not going to help at all, heh
< 1319815259 16990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firewall?
< 1319815274 862513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you made no sense
< 1319815279 515086 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This machine != the machine my keyboard is attached to
< 1319815283 343084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: lol
< 1319815303 746077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I made total sense, sorry
< 1319815326 583678 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Make a Solaris 10 package kthx
< 1319815346 278872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Observe the Makefile that installs a grand total of one file to the system :P
< 1319815360 909689 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But I need service configuration!!
< 1319815362 383509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you not using tup?!
< 1319815370 490185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: True!!!!!!
< 1319815378 879131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Couldn't be fucked to install it!!!!!!!!!!!!
< 1319815395 779961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=35320
< 1319815398 453172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's orphaned??/
< 1319815399 412170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is like cp tup ~/bin after building it
< 1319815406 585919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh never used aur for tup
< 1319815418 620313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I do not install anything outside the package manager now.
< 1319815420 523068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is so blissful.
< 1319815423 764529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just built it in my home dir and copied to ~/bin
< 1319815435 7513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All language-specific packaging tools are DEAD to me. DEAD.
< 1319815439 36958 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in
< 1319815443 985981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I use package manager for everything outside $HOME, with a few /opt exceptions such as nwn
< 1319815453 646028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://aur.archlinux.org/ Hahaha I wonder if anyone's seen my package
< 1319815460 600144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can track download counts
< 1319815463 893325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are on arch linux?
< 1319815467 257030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1319815470 212702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo.
< 1319815480 443521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't believe that
< 1319815480 558735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Debian.
< 1319815482 918825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Gentoo/Debian.
< 1319815488 290091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Solaris userland.
< 1319815492 498003 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319815492 679275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1319815494 10215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And DragonflyBSD kernel.
< 1319815510 357004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which part is from debian then?
< 1319815527 738734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /etc/debian_version
< 1319815535 426506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and the bit from gentoo?
< 1319815550 93361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/tty4
< 1319815555 319940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1319815599 581097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YEAH I was going to ask
< 1319815602 57639 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat, hostname tilde begone
< 1319815610 338986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: omg bffs 4eva <3
< 1319815628 391621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I was saying,
< 1319815642 495642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What do I have to get you to do to click the thing on AUR so that I can update the C-INTERCAL package :)
< 1319815657 85029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Have I mentioned I'm not installing anything outside the package manager any more?)
< 1319815677 606589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: P.S. You just installed the most secretest rootkit ever.
< 1319815680 670393 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, c-intercal updated? I was unaware, I will deal with it tomorrow. Won't be on arch until then.
< 1319815683 73735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's so secret it doesn't even exist.)
< 1319815696 272002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It updated months ago, you are an irresponsible maintainer!
< 1319815723 658682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also your package doesn't use package() but I dunno if that's new or not.
< 1319815725 309778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wasn't notified. I do check the usenet channel every week or so
< 1319815740 751364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, package() is quite new I think yeah.
< 1319815742 385397 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"usenet channel"?
< 1319815753 820438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal/browse_thread/thread/3c17bc59ad7e44a7#
< 1319815760 114883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were notified in April
< 1319815763 53114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, alt.lang.intercal
< 1319815768 861589 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "channel"? seriously?
< 1319815780 260234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, err, too tired
< 1319815785 551223 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"newsgroup" is the correct term; "group" is acceptable
< 1319815791 619549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right, my desktop broke around then. Probably why I missed it.
< 1319815795 327705 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"forum" is not really acceptable but people have been seen using it on occasion
< 1319815798 120216 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: This is the best IRC group on esoteric languages there is.
< 1319815799 741127 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "channel" is just bizarre
< 1319815809 376031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, you're using a suboptimal download mechanism in the package
< 1319815813 901656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I'm just tired. Don't try to read anything into it
< 1319815815 931829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ?
< 1319815828 325898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HTTP
< 1319815847 159254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The state-of-the-art C-INTERCAL distribution mechanism is gopher/IPv6.
< 1319815849 69744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you didn't mark c-intercal out of date anyway. You could have done that.
< 1319815853 481011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over UDP I guess.
< 1319815866 16929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I only noticed today going to install c-intercal as an innocent, delicate flower.
< 1319815869 601248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas I am now withered.
< 1319815870 346780 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \c -> (c:) <$> optional (char c)
< 1319815870 881716 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 (<$>) (:) (optional . char)
< 1319815871 219220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the issue is that makepkg only does http and ftp to my knowledge
< 1319815880 37970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Patch makepkg
< 1319815886 136256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the only way
< 1319815901 624234 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try drinking some water
< 1319815902 519532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you do it and submit it to upstream, I'm not going to care.
< 1319815912 225394 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been known to revive flowers from apparently fatal wilting before like that
< 1319815915 853261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But you might care in the past?
< 1319815921 302072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the present?
< 1319815922 178461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ...
< 1319815924 807663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no
< 1319815930 771695 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I weep.
< 1319815934 675964 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I thought I was upstream
< 1319815941 994834 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is there another stream between?
< 1319815951 144102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, upstream for the packaging utilities
< 1319815960 376293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, if elliott wants it to support gopher/ipv6
< 1319815967 902730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :them*
< 1319815978 291864 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, the distribution isn't /only/ on gopher over IPv6
< 1319815986 531844 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that when it first came out, I needed somewhere to put it
< 1319815997 607562 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone happened to have an IPv6 gopher server and asked if they could host it there
< 1319816003 43772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I know. It was elliott who said I should use gopher/ipv6 because http was "suboptimal"
< 1319816007 55116 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seemed a pretty appropriate set of protocols
< 1319816012 181011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, he is just messing around.
< 1319816105 434635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't know why you support deprecated protocols like HTTP.
< 1319816110 587543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv4 has all run out.
< 1319816155 186528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipv4/ipv6 is a completely unrelated issue to gopher/http
< 1319816196 933522 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I doubt you'll be able to convince many computer-literate people that HTTP is deprecated in favour of gopher
< 1319816222 601450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, someone needs to implement git-over-gopher
< 1319816225 373111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably push-capable
< 1319816230 784231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wait
< 1319816233 443384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tla-over-gopher
< 1319816243 116976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Move C-INTERCAL over to tla-over-gopher version control
< 1319816266 767708 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1319816284 847705 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, we need to get sg implemented as the new standard, here
< 1319816290 602759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg/gopher
< 1319816312 166182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sg is really boring, it doesn't even have its own sync protocol :'(
< 1319816343 697199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hmm
< 1319816349 771847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it started to have one, actually
< 1319816436 864134 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is tla-over-gopher anyways?
< 1319816447 89224 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: tla is a version control system
< 1319816463 889055 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and putting it over gopher means using gopher to transmit the information needed for pulls and pushes
< 1319816724 989605 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gopher is particularly suitable for serving files; it is not very suitable to do the other way around, however, but there are a few exceptions.
< 1319816935 287199 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty (concat .) . zipWith (\a b -> [a,b])
< 1319816936 148405 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [b] -> [b] -> [b]
< 1319816949 455153 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does that^ still not exist anywhere
< 1319816967 305356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm
< 1319816983 684859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to my knowledge, but I can't help but feel there must be a nicer way
< 1319816995 787760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)
< 1319816997 220578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [b] -> [b] -> [[b] -> [b]]
< 1319817007 392431 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The practical way is to write it with manual recursion :-P
< 1319817011 361667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \xs ys -> foldr ($) [] $ zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs) xs ys
< 1319817012 461423 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. [a] -> [a] -> [a]
< 1319817025 780259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala Endo concatMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs) xs ys
< 1319817027 10259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `xs'
< 1319817027 83150 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `ys'
< 1319817027 422287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala Endo concatMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)
< 1319817028 773998 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match expected type `Endo a' against inferred type `[b]'
< 1319817028 854007 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Expected type: (a -> a) -> Endo a
< 1319817028 926177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Inferred type: (a -> a) -> [b]
< 1319817032 66561 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it probably shouldn't use zip as it could take the remainder when one list runs out
< 1319817037 332910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala EndoconcatMap
< 1319817038 473796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `EndoconcatMap'
< 1319817041 587270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala Endo concatMap
< 1319817042 802251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :    Couldn't match expected type `Endo a' against inferred type `[b]'
< 1319817043 36826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Expected type: (a -> a) -> Endo a
< 1319817043 108958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :      Inferred type: (a -> a) -> [b]
< 1319817045 477206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala Endo foldMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)
< 1319817046 603173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `foldMap'
< 1319817048 329472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1319817052 519340 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty ala
< 1319817053 300719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall o n b n' o'. (Newtype n o, Newtype n' o') => (o -> n) -> ((o -> n) -> b -> n') -> b -> o'
< 1319817054 54345 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ala Endo Data.Foldable.foldMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)
< 1319817055 233690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [b] -> [b] -> [b] -> [b]
< 1319817060 69069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Perf... wait, what
< 1319817063 692033 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D
< 1319817066 193630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh
< 1319817074 907862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($ []) . ala Endo foldMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)
< 1319817076 159893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `foldMap'
< 1319817081 100696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($ []) . ala Endo Data.Foldable.foldMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)
< 1319817082 415353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [b] -> [b] -> [b]
< 1319817087 17208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Perfect
< 1319817143 465171 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (($ []) . ala Endo Data.Foldable.foldMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)) "abc" "123"
< 1319817144 964812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :  "123"
< 1319817146 986006 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Try again
< 1319817158 371381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($ []) .: ala Endo foldMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)
< 1319817159 626018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `foldMap'
< 1319817162 66666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfjk
< 1319817162 713773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gho
< 1319817163 435487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :em,l;
< 1319817168 74422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($ []) .: ala Endo Data.Foldable.foldMap .: zipWith (\a b xs -> a:b:xs)
< 1319817169 359853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [b] -> [b] -> [b]
< 1319817175 160544 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (/\/)
< 1319817175 295150 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found
< 1319817187 288610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try hayoo
< 1319817258 537789 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No luck
< 1319817647 587333 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I test Pietbot?
< 1319817660 1296 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure who you're asking for permission
< 1319817662 628283 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you need to ask
< 1319817666 173071 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll stand by ready to kick it if it goes berserk
< 1319817667 87835 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Channel in general
< 1319817670 75295 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think it's necessary
< 1319817705 347437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geh, aurget is just too fragile for me
< 1319817708 230634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying yaorut
< 1319817709 406019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaourt
< 1319817711 888175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that name
< 1319817717 781396 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaourt --sucre
< 1319817721 609220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that option
< 1319817742 583005 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bad option :-/
< 1319817752 314780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Start counting the days until I write my own libalpm/AUR thing
< 1319817758 56773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are numbered
< 1319817773 845002 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is AUR anyway?
< 1319817774 838900 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it had just -y instead of -fyy it'd be better
< 1319817783 516812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Arachnids Understanding Rodents
< 1319817790 147201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: -fyy?
< 1319817794 820748 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -fyy
< 1319817798 88187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What
< 1319817806 325423 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Arch User Repository
< 1319817824 466222 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's equivalent to -Sfyyua --devel
< 1319817834 843655 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Notice "fyy"
< 1319817835 911281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Have I mentioned I don't like yaourt
< 1319817841 553124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it -fyy is like force yes yes
< 1319817844 57488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something
< 1319817844 830902 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a joke
< 1319817847 767084 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-f is force
< 1319817856 43606 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-y is the normal pacman -y
< 1319817858 26595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is sucre actually meant to be, even as a joke
< 1319817861 571978 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think -yy also is, I think
< 1319817872 669613 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not
< 1319817874 1877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why does everybody mindlessly copy pacman's basic command structure
< 1319817876 566493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of shit
< 1319817885 548023 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, -yy is "force update of package databases"
< 1319817894 268006 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. overwrite them even if they appear to be up to date
< 1319817895 14798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh,r ight
< 1319817898 257084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/r / r/
< 1319817909 337796 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because having them be more or less drop-in replacements of each other is handy :-P
< 1319817938 556682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah, but they offer like two things, AUR building, and an improved UI
< 1319817939 623034 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://translate.google.com/#fr|en|yaourt%20sucre
< 1319817941 399568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're doing the latter...
< 1319817949 97739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes
< 1319817951 873755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realise it is French :P
< 1319817958 159277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't get the joke of the option itself
< 1319817960 527314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., why it does that
< 1319817977 249202 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like syntactic sugar except it's pactactic sugar
< 1319817978 684433 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know
< 1319818025 598757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky yaourt]$ makepkg -s
< 1319818025 929176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> Making package: yaourt 0.10.2-1 (Fri Oct 28 17:06:24 BST 2011)
< 1319818026 1697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> Checking runtime dependencies...
< 1319818026 1862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> Installing missing dependencies...
< 1319818026 1969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: target not found: package-query>=0.7
< 1319818026 287261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :==> ERROR: 'pacman' failed to install missing dependencies.
< 1319818038 449095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependencies on other AUR packages
< 1319818039 432583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So great
< 1319818042 134405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So simple
< 1319818083 688409 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a couple of the helpers use that
< 1319818090 69683 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure though
< 1319818117 601866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea of writing my own on top of libalpm As God Intended is annoyingly prominent at this point :P
< 1319818167 826672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"man libalpm" is uh
< 1319818171 860720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It references a bunch of section manpagse
< 1319818173 392865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That don't exist
< 1319818420 472464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I like how yaourt has bash_completion support but it's so slow that it actually just makes you regret having a tab key
< 1319818429 355385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish that was my typical hyperbole
< 1319818484 411056 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use bash nor yaourt's completion :-P
< 1319818550 238889 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: perldoc does that too
< 1319818559 320250 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hitting control-C at a judiciously timed moment
< 1319818560 541941 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :helps
< 1319818603 651877 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn
< 1319818617 86427 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get my bot to use netcat?
< 1319818632 419252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noidentd-git is now onto pkgrev=5 :P
< 1319818648 802690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: If you upgrade, you'll get an EXCITING NEW NOTHING.
< 1319818658 97224 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want some sort of two way pipe?
< 1319818661 410674 :FireFly!firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omgz
< 1319818666 292840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: nc -e
< 1319818673 426479 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why is bash a dep
< 1319818675 710846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: nc -e 'piet mybot' irc.freenode.net 6667
< 1319818682 867763 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's one possibility (use mkfifo to make a fifo, then you can make a pipe go round in a circle); but elliott's suggestion is better
< 1319818684 633809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: install -D -m755 noidentd.rc.d "$pkgdir/etc/rc.d/noidentd"
< 1319818695 761959 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're using a version of nc whose author things -e is a massive security bug
< 1319818698 236098 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Well, it's not that better; if FIFOs weren't gross they'd be better
< 1319818700 870792 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can easily be used to make a reverse shell
< 1319818710 367897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if tie was installed on the system :-)
< 1319818715 406412 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So it's a makedep?
< 1319818725 800217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No? /etc/rc.d/noidentd is a bash script
< 1319818730 32406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs at startup/etc.
< 1319818739 304295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a runtime dependency
< 1319818747 894380 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm
< 1319818759 571324 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc: invalid option -- 'e'
< 1319818759 779250 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is nc from the netcat-openbsd package. An alternative nc is available
< 1319818759 852084 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the netcat-traditional package.
< 1319818764 224964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: BTW, the official package-bug-checker-thing told me to put it there
< 1319818780 21605 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah but it's not always right
< 1319818788 382470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: install netcat-traditional, echo '#!/bin/sh' >mybot; echo 'piet mybot.piet' >>mybot; chmod +x mybot
< 1319818793 192268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc -e 'piet mybot' irc.freenode.net 6667
< 1319818795 181673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: How's it wrong here
< 1319818804 378367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: An rc.d script is just as much a runtime thing as a /usr/bin executable
< 1319818810 490060 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know, I'm just thinking
< 1319818825 227390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer it just depend on any shell rather than bash but all the other rc.d scripts do it like this too :)
< 1319818837 999833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks everything still works.
< 1319818840 181483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319818845 103167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319818846 47235 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Most rc.d scripts of mine don't seem to depend on bash or sh
< 1319818859 382922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: See shebang
< 1319818874 606845 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just mean the packages themselves
< 1319818878 618316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1319818882 835095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a bug to me
< 1319818892 919861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't run without bash
< 1319818897 106067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, sure, you can just not use the rc.d script
< 1319818902 354636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could just "not use" something in /usr/bin too
< 1319818906 72959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still a missing dependency
< 1319818908 683716 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you answered the telephone by:  "I'm sorry, you must have a wrong number. I don't have a telephone."
< 1319818912 323074 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You depend on /etc/rc.d/functions but not initscripts
< 1319818917 432189 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's Debian, then scripts are allowed to assume that "essential" packages are installed, and I think that includes dash
< 1319818922 740140 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (As, presumably, do all/most of these packages)
< 1319818929 406376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, that's another bug
< 1319818930 333097 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think so; however, it might even be correct if you answered a payphone like that
< 1319818934 130423 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or someone else's telephone
< 1319818934 323678 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fair enough :-)
< 1319819001 942585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noidentd-git W: Dependency bash included but already satisfied
< 1319819002 54631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noidentd-git W: Dependency included and not needed ('initscripts')
< 1319819008 839006 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1319819014 98628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmm
< 1319819022 666104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I wonder why it's complaining about that, it should see the filename if it sees bash
< 1319819031 307440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it just uses special-case hacks
< 1319819031 691409 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I told you it's not always right
< 1319819090 676926 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma includes different floors !
< 1319819091 67550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=53492
< 1319819091 992129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go
< 1319819095 727619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: :D
< 1319819114 275123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Client Quit
< 1319819118 731967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319819121 840758 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I suppose so. In which places could I find a payphone?
< 1319819163 741013 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in the UK, they still exist, but are quite rare nowadays; they are mostly found on busy roads with a lot of pedestrians
< 1319819227 783123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Tell me I'll regret writing my own libalpm ditty
< 1319819232 890808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need it :(
< 1319819235 424206 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You'll regret it
< 1319819238 866449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Why
< 1319819249 369012 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, you told me to say that
< 1319819258 504412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1319819260 124267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unconvincing
< 1319819269 19329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe python is actually python3 on Arch
< 1319819503 636369 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Give me DS9K values for INT_MIN, INT_MAX, UINT_MAX, LONG_MIN, LONG_MAX, ULONG_MAX, LLONG_MIN, LLONG_MAX, and ULLONG_MAX; thanks in advance
< 1319819531 28197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're not going to decide values for them dynamically based on static analysis?
< 1319819560 984139 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no.
< 1319819585 112278 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to file a feature request if this ever gets that close to being finished
< 1319819599 839196 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how many bits is a char?
< 1319819618 406716 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Undecided
< 1319819625 402830 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is this a C89 or C99 version? you should definitely make it use one's-complement with trap representation, for all the types that let you do that
< 1319819629 13096 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C1X
< 1319819638 172539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're not going to get anywhere interesting just by picking weird rangse
< 1319819639 583032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ranges
< 1319819642 958586 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost 100 years old? boring
< 1319819668 361773 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say plain int should be equivalent to short, and between 17 and 31 bits wide
< 1319819678 486936 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that's going to catch more programs than making it unusually large
< 1319819686 593517 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Where did I say that this is the only DS9K thing I'll do
< 1319819688 918253 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably sizeof(int) == 3 is the value to go for
< 1319819690 813886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :char should be as big as a short, int as small as a short
< 1319819696 893500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, fair enough
< 1319819700 329753 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof has no relation to the min/max values
< 1319819716 529206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go for 17-bit chars, shorts ant ints
< 1319819716 980745 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it does for the unsigned types, doesn't it?
< 1319819719 795012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ant/and/
< 1319819722 653897 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Does it?
< 1319819726 882889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then 129-bit longs
< 1319819732 990952 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is from memory, and I'm far from 100% confident
< 1319819739 697211 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorts being equal to ints seems a bit forgiving
< 1319819741 65927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them one's-complement-with-trap
< 1319819742 424437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can do that
< 1319819760 964057 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need these values so that I can give types to integer literals :-P
< 1319819763 58711 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All even bits are padding.
< 1319819772 889124 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about sizeof(short)==2, sizeof(int)==3, sizeof(long)==something that isn't representable in an int?
< 1319819786 482298 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof is not a matter of interest to me right now
< 1319819795 646186 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless sizeof and the min/max truly are dependent
< 1319819797 602614 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, it determines the bounds that are possible on the integers
< 1319819809 612776 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have a max-min more than 2 to the power of sizeof * CHAR_BIT
< 1319819819 810098 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have less, though.
< 1319819827 987360 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not in all cases
< 1319819835 29778 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned char you definitely have to use every bit
< 1319819835 560375 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't I freely pad the sizeof
< 1319819838 209440 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about unsigned int
< 1319819839 45448 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for chars
< 1319819851 513150 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor about signed char
< 1319819890 511077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, AUR Haskell packages do shared objects but not profiling
< 1319819896 784160 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For unsigned integer types other than unsigned char, the bits of the object representation shall be divided into two groups: value bits and padding bits (there need not be any of the latter)."
< 1319819905 149777 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For signed integer types without exception.
< 1319819918 104308 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And also there is a sign bit.)
< 1319819984 506269 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, there are N value bits thus giving the possible values 0 through 2^N - 1
< 1319820017 962489 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with padding the sizeof can be anything bigger
< 1319820028 213804 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, at least in C99, you have to in fact use all the value bits to represent a binary number, and only the "second zero" (for one's-complement, or sign-and-magnitude) can be a trap representation.
< 1319820063 601160 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Some combinations of padding bits might generate trap representations"
< 1319820086 655566 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some combinations of padding bits might generate trap representations, for example, if one padding bit is a parity bit. Regardless, no arithmetic operation on valid values can generate a trap representation other than as part of an exceptional condition such as an overflow, and this cannot occur with unsigned types. All other combinations of padding bits are alternative object representations of the value specified by the value bits.
< 1319820089 299600 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. But you can't have a value range of, say, [-22222, 33333].
< 1319820103 766744 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I can't.
< 1319820164 115463 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That footnote is duplicated at least in this C1X draft, amusingly.)
< 1319820182 882798 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prime powers of two for the elegance, maybe.
< 1319820411 72679 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do unsigned numbers have to be able to represent up to 2^(N+1)-1 where 2^N-1 is the max of the corresponding signed type?
< 1319820459 880094 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if there are M value bits in the signed type and N in the unsigned type, then M <= N"
< 1319820502 306143 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could have signeds represent [-n,n] and unsigneds represent [0,n], then.
< 1319820715 206968 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :11-bit chars, 17-bit shorts, 19-bit ints, 37-bit longs, and 67-bit long longs
< 1319820862 932132 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I've got a hat on
< 1319820877 961003 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I act like Gregor, maybe I'll get some of Gregor's skills
< 1319820958 306469 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?hoogle Ord a => (a,a) -> a -> Bool
< 1319820958 969600 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Ix inRange :: Ix a => (a, a) -> a -> Bool
< 1319820959 41822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text.Regex.Base.RegexLike extract :: Extract source => (Int, Int) -> source -> source
< 1319820959 114970 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Graph gelem :: Graph gr => Node -> gr a b -> Bool
< 1319821163 386588 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1319821209 11573 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319821601 62496 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1319821703 126606 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319821817 6222 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319821993 222485 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319822054 495480 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Arabic Part (possibly used with equatorial coordinates too) could be:  Midheaven - Sun + 0Libra (no flip)   I should make Astroplot capable of user defining generalized Arabic Parts, which can be whatever you want, instead of only the 177 parts that Astrolog supports. You can write your own suggestions too. From Wikipedia it is clear that astrology and astronomy program are both inadequate; that is why I have my own idea. Swiss Ephemeri
< 1319822118 94711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astrolog also seems to have errors in its documentation, as well as some bugs I have found in the program.
< 1319822201 736061 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319822243 935476 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The document says to use -s (sidereal zodiac) when using -sr (equatorial right ascension) but actually that not only has no effect on that mode, but right ascensions are relative to the vernal equinox anyways.
< 1319822286 15231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would be wrong to use sidereal zodiac mode with it if you wanted the standard right ascensions values.
< 1319822468 251168 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have a feeling someone in real life has actually done the [-n, n] signed, [0, n] unsiged thing, on a system where all arithmetic is signed. It might be more unexpected to have, say, values of [-n/4+1, n/4-1] for signed and [0, n-1] for unsigned, for n = 2^k.
< 1319822500 98982 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1319822523 843873 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What was this all about, incidentally? Were you writing a DS9K simulator?
< 1319822569 36318 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm glacially writing a DS9K implementation of C, in Haskell
< 1319822716 985417 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah.
< 1319822721 748156 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a DS9K?
< 1319822749 315873 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The DeathStation 9000 (often abbreviated DS9K) is a hypothetical computer architecture often used as part of a discussion about the portability of computer code (often C code). It is imagined to be as obstructive and unhelpful as possible, whilst still conforming to any relevant standards, deliberately acting unexpectedly whenever possible."
< 1319822766 126367 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1319822893 146110 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319823058 657911 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. *Clearly* the DS9K should have each pointer type with distinct representation.
< 1319823090 451383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah been there donr that
< 1319823091 86866 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1319823291 610470 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I suppose it should
< 1319823465 447640 :ais523_!93bcc018@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.24 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1319824211 770929 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319824421 94274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Sigh, AUR Haskell packages do shared objects but not profiling
< 1319824423 626863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I retract this
< 1319824547 962531 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319824694 346495 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so why are you using arch linux?
< 1319824711 326213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean you don't really seem to be the type to enjoy arch linux
< 1319824726 102984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's way better than Gentoo/Debian/Solaris/DragonflyBSD
< 1319824743 212299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I'm considering switching to nixos in the future, once it gets more mature. Currently it is somewhat buggy and incomplete from my experience.
< 1319824813 500549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But honestly, the real reason is that it has a newer ghc than Debian
< 1319824828 703515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please don't tell me you are using this on the vps!?
< 1319824850 46718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That's Debian stable as always.
< 1319824861 269306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, speaking of which, how did you solve the haskell issue on there?
< 1319824864 671354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ghc issue rather
< 1319824870 564035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't
< 1319824875 943613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319824879 210697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what did you do instead?
< 1319824915 309922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used a cron plugin for bukkit
< 1319824918 276601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1319824924 523307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ok, it uses cron4j
< 1319824932 82245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a feature-for-feature reimplementation :P
< 1319824952 20120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like the only place I can think of where that is useful
< 1319825056 524067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1319825070 209824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the advantage is, it can call java code
< 1319825072 907558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than executables
< 1319825086 558571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, there are far better interfaces for scheduling systems to embed in your application than a crontab file
< 1319825099 51261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, they're flexible
< 1319825103 848642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah
< 1319825104 380342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a programmatic API too
< 1319825125 29695 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1319825178 479716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, have fun with arch. #archlinux is, while not friendly, acceptable.
< 1319825191 656617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use distro irc
< 1319825200 612411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good choice
< 1319825206 272768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an automated faq dispensal mechanism
< 1319825210 57311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with more yelling
< 1319825214 235960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite
< 1319825214 308152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all it
< 1319825225 977070 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should join #ubuntu, I assume it's the best place.
< 1319825230 500965 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the arch linux wiki tends to be surprisingly good
< 1319825234 728350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the large selection of haskell packages in aur has me happy
< 1319825241 340112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki is nice
< 1319825251 450547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc.d/rc.conf/inittab/etc. is acceptable
< 1319825254 305571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eh
< 1319825256 708350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm happy
< 1319825264 529852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc #ubuntu is the largest channel around the time of new releases, otherwise it tends to be the second largest after #gentoo. Might have changed, haven't been in either for ages
< 1319825305 957675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, rc.d... Well I have a minor issue with that, I get confused when switching between ubuntu and arch, I mix up the tab complete for init.d and rc.d.
< 1319825306 740238 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ aptitude search '^libghc.*-dev$' | wc -l
< 1319825306 812544 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :232
< 1319825306 812763 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sadly they're all from the third century BCE.)
< 1319825350 734152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway arch linux init system has a major fault in my opinion. That fault is that the ordering is up to you in the DAEMONS array. It doesn't do deps between services.
< 1319825365 395055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: of -uptodate- packages
< 1319825380 627317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (a) I have a proper issue with it: It's not a service management system.
< 1319825387 434740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is that too
< 1319825392 247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) Meh, I don't have enough daemons for that to matter much, but it's imperfect.
< 1319825400 826455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAEMONS=(syslog-ng @network @alsa @noidentd crond)
< 1319825403 53820 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/zpkb <- freenode top5 when I /list'd, but this was quite a long while ago.
< 1319825418 305200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /list is not impressive, you know.
< 1319825428 719359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it also prevents fully concurrent starting. You can basically do run in background or blocking start. So you can do some concurrency and ordering. But you can't do deps between those starting in the bg
< 1319825431 928049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell is up there nowadays, at least top 20
< 1319825453 552240 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 8th in that listing.
< 1319825489 684060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a decent init/service manager time, just haven't been bothered to implement it :)
< 1319825496 21338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto for package manager.
< 1319825518 772071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anything wrong with nixos package manager?
< 1319825529 5836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1319825532 381066 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For one, it's C++
< 1319825538 397932 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay, apart from that?
< 1319825569 827612 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that is another issue with nixos, while /bin/sh is there, stuff like /bin/bash or /usr/bin/env bash or /usr/bin/python are quite common in #! too
< 1319825570 803854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it implements my higher-order package model
< 1319825593 162942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, higer-order packages? How does that work?
< 1319825606 774351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple, packages take all their configuration as parameters
< 1319825619 630675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like compilation flags?
< 1319825619 816927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configuration includes, e.g. what specific packages to use to satisfy a generic dependency
< 1319825629 616182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319825630 630229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure, and package-specific stuff
< 1319825635 349471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :build-profiling-libs, etc.
< 1319825653 768671 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so that includes stuff like the entire httpd config? Or would that not be in that?
< 1319825711 856761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, the httpd package would only take "package global" config
< 1319825717 232086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., roughly "compile-time" stuff
< 1319825720 47523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1319825724 286913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my system also subsumes configuration management
< 1319825730 44207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1319825731 390408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes and no
< 1319825762 478434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay, what are the benefits of this system then? Does it allow multiple versions of a package or something interesting like that?
< 1319825813 800843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can see it is kind of neat to have this info, but I'm not currently seeing what the huge benefit would be
< 1319825821 593248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The benefits are vastly increased package configurability without breaking dependencies (because packages can depend on certain parameters to others), full multiarch emerges from the rest of the system, sure, multiple versions of a package...
< 1319825829 692200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it also underlies the configuration management.
< 1319825868 544420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, this is kind of like the USE-flags of gentoo but more advanced. A package can depend on another package having a specific USE-flag enabled iirc.
< 1319825888 346690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's similar, but typed, not just a constant list of values
< 1319825892 681022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1319825901 984904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configuration management eaxmple: e.g. Say foo has a configuration option that can be a cc, any cc
< 1319825910 105215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1319825915 984248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have a "package" foo.cc :: cc -> pkg
< 1319825922 146891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd install (foo.cc gcc)
< 1319825925 309502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or (foo.cc clang)
< 1319825925 987253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1319825927 541784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay type signatures
< 1319825951 289891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kind of nice.
< 1319825959 530450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...my secret wish is that packages will turn out to generalise into /services/ as well
< 1319825965 211276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the same dependency management
< 1319825970 287720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"installation" is starting
< 1319825977 857142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"uninstallation" is stopping
< 1319825978 456292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1319825986 182400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not sure that would fit for stuff like httpd config though. They tend to be very complex. Stuff like rewrite rules, virtual hosts, fcgi setup and what not.
< 1319825998 609846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :httpd recommends httpd.service
< 1319826004 157714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :httpd.service depends on httpd
< 1319826007 900499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, i dunno, dbus.service
< 1319826009 296930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc.
< 1319826009 451645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319826023 782470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootup = installing the configured "system.service" or w/e
< 1319826053 583855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and yeah, there's modelling involved: in the worst case you just do what nixos does to solve the same problem
< 1319826056 229164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I somehow doubt an httpd needs dbus, but whatever, not relevant to the discussion really, just thought I ought to point that out)
< 1319826059 749756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take an extra-config string
< 1319826067 714732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah i was just trying to think of a daemon
< 1319826097 344910 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D83B.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1319826145 425513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you want to have some nice syntax for extra-config strings. So you don't need to escape the newlines or something silly like that. Or escape embedded quotation marks
< 1319826158 442991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1319826161 279609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like the heredoc stuff in bash would actually be nice there
< 1319826162 343186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could source it from a file, even
< 1319826166 33225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that
< 1319826168 776891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably cleaner
< 1319826177 986471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esp. for syntax highlighting
< 1319826181 421800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap
< 1319826185 585220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :was about to say that XD
< 1319826192 506039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, and this model also does binary packages really well
< 1319826198 883458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1319826209 799612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since a package specifies a /precise/ configuration, a binary package can be substituted iff it has the exact same configuration
< 1319826226 938690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because rebuilding would literally give you the same bits (modulo compilers not being deterministic etc.)
< 1319826227 664505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, exact same down to CFLAGS?
< 1319826241 268944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure -- if you specified different CFLAGS, you want them to be used...
< 1319826274 21573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically "pkg install foo" would almost certainly use a binary package but e.g. "pkg install foo --without-foo --extra-cflags=-fmagic" would build from source
< 1319826284 797822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe "pkg install foo --some-popular-option" would use a binary package too
< 1319826289 79234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, could I do something like "I accept these generic CFLAGS but for anything I compile myself for some other reason than CFLAGS I want these instead"
< 1319826293 127637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be kind of neat
< 1319826297 994152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also means that self-depending packages can be bootstrapped
< 1319826302 456262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just force one level of source building
< 1319826309 842904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the next level goes to the binary to satisfy the dependencies
< 1319826310 704522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like accepting -mtune=generic but doing -march=core2 or whatever if you compile it /anyway/
< 1319826325 57955 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a config I mean
< 1319826325 574109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sure, that's basically a frontend issue
< 1319826330 257008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1319826360 962208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you could also demand everything be built with -fmagic, in case half the packages in the repo aren't for some reason
< 1319826369 453081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'll use the binary packages if they have -fmagic
< 1319826381 865457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what with the new AVX stuff I think there are starting to be enough differences on x86-64 to investigate which, if any, packages would benefit from using AVX instead of plain SSE.
< 1319826397 754049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...basically the end result of this is that it's ten times more flexible than Gentoo: you can say "i want this libc, this coreutils, this blah" and it all works out...
< 1319826400 995510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the base-line on x86-64 is actually SSE2 I think?
< 1319826404 649624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the common case it still uses all-binaries etc.
< 1319826442 85913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc the same benefits nix gives you
< 1319826452 255250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "I want this libc", and it all works out? Sure, if you go for glibc or eglibc. Not likely if you go for uclibc or some such :P
< 1319826455 148566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. purely functional -> rollback support, mostly-centralised configuration management
< 1319826466 149189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, it all works out if you pick the right packages
< 1319826470 224706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: once musl gets C++ support...
< 1319826470 866418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319826479 208442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl is glibc-compatible to a T
< 1319826484 64644 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319826497 280726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well by support I mean "works with libc++"
< 1319826534 843798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about binary blobs that depend on certain stuff. Say, df, nwn, or even the amd or nvidia drivers?
< 1319826549 978218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What of them? They don't take cflags options :-)
< 1319826570 916032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There'd be no built-in options, everything would be specified by "sensible default" builders like autotools, etc.
< 1319826574 973041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the drivers do, they use a glue file between the blob and the kernel. Because of how modules wokr
< 1319826577 194089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :work*
< 1319826583 315867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right
< 1319826607 744815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and multiarch basically works perfectly like this
< 1319826613 353284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319826621 141689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming a Nix-style store layout, I haven't quite decided how it's reflected to the FS yet
< 1319826635 985236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But basically they just install normally and you overly them onto the right /usr/lib/<foo> directory
< 1319826639 935333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/overly/overlay/
< 1319826646 49765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need quite a lot of testing to ensure that stuff works. I mean, you need to test every package against every libc you support to be able to specify correct deps.
< 1319826647 147201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This thing basically depends on a good union-fs, I think)
< 1319826657 595591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you customise shit, shit might break
< 1319826661 702510 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah...
< 1319826666 972492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not every combination of USE flags will work with a Gentoo package
< 1319826670 55842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it should be fine
< 1319826686 106982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm quite amazed at that nix actually works.
< 1319826686 948554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you use a different libc, shrug
< 1319826703 46097 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite complicated to make such a system work as well as it does
< 1319826707 165001 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Actually, Nix's design should make things break *less*.
< 1319826724 140566 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319826735 404195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, yes. But getting stuff like the boot-loader config version selection and what not to work is quite impressive.
< 1319826736 762239 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, the nice thing about this design is that it's so generic there's barely anything to it :)
< 1319826738 323160 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's absolutely no way for you to have a breaking ABI change actually break packages.
< 1319826760 173318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone
< 1319826763 670275 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike the usual scheme, where it can *and does* happen, unless you pay a lot of attention.
< 1319826773 351569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think the actual package manager comes down to a simple functional programming language, a constraint solver, exec(), and a huge standard library
< 1319826784 588228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fsvo huge
< 1319826802 220080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks like a language and an stdlib, which is far preferable to Debian
< 1319826816 221321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is like the copy-and-paste coding of the package specification world
< 1319826850 778040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, when you start tweaking with things like the libc, you blur the line between distro and LFS tool
< 1319826853 124625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's OK
< 1319826880 30189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing that really annoys me about NixOS: Totally tied to upstart. No real way around it. With my system the upstart integration would be separate to the main packagse.
< 1319826881 198505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :packages.
< 1319826892 630048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could load up a systemd repo on top of it, or whatever.
< 1319826898 618683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have that integrate with the packages.
< 1319826933 402329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The defining mark of whether something is still truly Blah OS at the end of the day is, I think, whether anyone will bother giving you support :)
< 1319827003 297721 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I make a list of all possible (non partial) functions from one type to another type if I have lists of all values of those types?
< 1319827038 322506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Get all lists of pairs of (A,B); use "lookup" appropriately
< 1319827054 546767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh yeah, I think a killer feature that arises out of this model can be described in one line:
< 1319827071 205796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cabal :: cabal-package-description -> pkg
< 1319827098 466145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can define systematic translations of other types into packages; another packaging format is just another type.
< 1319827126 979755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1319827150 827450 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq_> There's absolutely no way for you to have a breaking ABI change actually break packages. <-- what about breaking API?
< 1319827177 92073 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1319827187 774870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> Which is like the copy-and-paste coding of the package specification world <-- hah, perfect description
< 1319827213 172650 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And how do I do that?
< 1319827235 295889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> So you could load up a systemd repo on top of it, or whatever. <-- while systemd seems nicer than upstart, it uses .ini style syntax iirc. I'm not too fond of that syntax.
< 1319827244 102072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well... you can't. You can do all finite ones.
< 1319827247 646522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, it was an example.
< 1319827249 123652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :while upstart has a really nice syntax
< 1319827259 733672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is OK; I only need finite ones.
< 1319827265 868416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :upstart's syntax + systemd would be perfect
< 1319827272 944061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, a binary tree should do it
< 1319827306 600000 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :trololololo
< 1319827315 705182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You have ValuesOf a => ValuesOf [a], right? For finite lists
< 1319827326 548266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And (ValuesOf a, ValuesOf b) => ValuesOf [(a,b)]
< 1319827331 894184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> You can define systematic translations of other types into packages; another packaging format is just another type. <-- hm, as long as you don't try to do this for debian packages. Those work in weird ways.
< 1319827332 282858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just get the values of [(a,b)] and use
< 1319827333 914699 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I have those
< 1319827334 290381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lookup
< 1319827334 965710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Eq a) => a -> [(a, b)] -> Maybe b
< 1319827351 982192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just the source packages
< 1319827353 345443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nothing corresponds to an unhandled pattern)
< 1319827367 697559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I do not have  ValuesOf a => ValuesOf [a]  yet but I will put it on
< 1319827368 236955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could use a cartesian product or something if you don't want those i guess...)
< 1319827373 984608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes :)
< 1319827383 811367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But the point is that you don't need to deal with any external package managers.
< 1319827393 700426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just write an interpreter for them one and for all.
< 1319827400 807194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, automated translation of debian source packages would be.... interesting, but probably impossible
< 1319827404 993040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like cabal2arch and so on, but properly-typed, with real infrastructure.
< 1319827418 737553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, you could do it, it just wouldn't integrate with any of the configuration or building
< 1319827425 561183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously
< 1319827427 490832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Remember, it can look like a compiler /or/ an interpreter :)
< 1319827441 761658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the benefit would however be that you would get a HUGE package repo for free.
< 1319827454 658726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I don't think it's worth it for Debian packages though.
< 1319827457 535521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just too much cruft.
< 1319827466 472259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you used enough of them all the advantages of the system would disappear.
< 1319827496 749707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One really desirable property about the system is, your package selections are basically a package themselves
< 1319827506 387836 :trololololo!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin
< 1319827509 698104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe doing it with a less... diverse package format would be worth it. PKGBUILDs tend to be quite straight-forward. And very few patches. So do .ebuilds to some degree, but with more patches.
< 1319827514 736406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just tell the system what packages you want, and that corresponds to the dependency specification of your system package
< 1319827526 62856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it just keeps that package installed
< 1319827529 478683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, indeed.
< 1319827544 416933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Still, with the abstraction this system can offer, hand-writing packages shouldn't be too painful.
< 1319827550 224891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319827579 314196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Modulo package-specific configuration options that the distro provides (i.e. value-add type stuff), you could define a package in five lines under the assumption that it's "GNU-like"
< 1319827594 792947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you can just implement handling for GNU-style packages once and reuse that elsewhere
< 1319827604 465685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, true, but it still takes work. This would offer quite a large selection of software during an early stage. That could be useful. Because even if it is simple it takes time to do stuff like finding out the url and the way to build the package and to test it.
< 1319827614 106102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah.
< 1319827623 724242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd almost feel more like integrating inst(1) support, though :-)
< 1319827637 583099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not familiar with what inst(1) is
< 1319827660 677795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My fun Python script that takes a URL to a source distribution and installs it into /opt/pkgname.
< 1319827666 620933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was /incredibly/ surprisingly successful.
< 1319827672 652998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319827679 784900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, link?
< 1319827679 946679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could handle bash, perl, perl modules, C-INTERCAL, emacs, ...
< 1319827693 761562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I had to fix the version parsing just for c-intercal
< 1319827700 40896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course
< 1319827709 363691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about clc-intercal?
< 1319827710 540393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: could it handle itself?
< 1319827718 967710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Didn't try that, valued sanity a bit too much :P
< 1319827723 365962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was a Python script, so... no :-)
< 1319827723 523137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1319827731 723475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, got a link to it?
< 1319827733 410088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://sprunge.us/WCXI?python
< 1319827734 349156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CLC-INTERCAL's build system is reasonably sane atm, I think
< 1319827735 289777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just found it
< 1319827735 362048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1319827742 46969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its version numbering isn't, ofc
< 1319827746 112346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is all!?
< 1319827759 358705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not even close to complete, but it handles just about any orthodox package, plus quite a few that aren't
< 1319827768 757167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it still work on C-INTERCAL, btw?
< 1319827776 592105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Try it on something (you can replace /opt with something else)
< 1319827776 770200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about nethack
< 1319827780 870831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm
< 1319827782 834390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give it a shot
< 1319827785 521295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't count on it
< 1319827796 133362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it won't work on vanilla NetHack, that requires manual configuration
< 1319827799 370215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I very much doubt it, don't you need to manually copy a makefile to the root dir or something?
< 1319827799 741364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may well work on AceHack, though
< 1319827802 302629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn
< 1319827803 317126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then edit a config.h
< 1319827804 955123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Link to AceHack tarball
< 1319827805 499158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1319827812 752149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, I don't think there is one
< 1319827819 999845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How do I obtain AceHack
< 1319827823 231439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the repo
< 1319827825 219775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Link
< 1319827835 475836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1319827835 891042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs get http://patch-tag.com/r/ais523/acehack
< 1319827854 993380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have the link off-hand, so I said that to buy myself time to find it in my browser history
< 1319827856 638889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, it depends on make install being well behaved. I seen make install install stuff outside /opt, like menu entires.
< 1319827866 593168 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319827870 562759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, chrooting or FUSE and the like would have followed
< 1319827874 453541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build system there comes from SLASH'EM and I haven't looked at it much
< 1319827875 518625 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does it
< 1319827877 290762 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i died again
< 1319827879 864256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ darcs get http://patch-tag.com/r/ais523/acehack
< 1319827879 982591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: darcs: command not found
< 1319827880 55090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops
< 1319827882 154899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you should start working on it again
< 1319827884 151858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Oh hey
< 1319827902 410230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I might, if it doesn't work on AceHack :)
< 1319827928 142398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs darcs
< 1319827929 497263 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I meant chrooting or fusing it or whatever. Not sure fuse would have worked though, unless you fused / somehow
< 1319827939 878190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, install darcs with inst
< 1319827949 729109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would definitely not work.
< 1319827955 147573 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not?
< 1319827972 170733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell build system is totally different... although darcs may be old enough to have makefiles
< 1319827977 584194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319827979 157898 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1319827993 294905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is it a big repo?
< 1319828001 106501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as large as some
< 1319828008 269969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see if I can df it
< 1319828010 383879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would --lazy or --partial or w/e help
< 1319828011 384338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, du it
< 1319828019 391108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably
< 1319828029 272737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 72 # I hate ais523
< 1319828030 456564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1319828033 141229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^
< 1319828042 581442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's the C-INTERCAL Version Number Memorial Version Number Parsing Function
< 1319828046 53411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1319828050 41093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I had to completely restructure because of its negative components
< 1319828052 157930 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play Brogue
< 1319828058 979941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 47MiB, apparently
< 1319828063 726783 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's soooooo anoying
< 1319828079 937730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should only take a few minutes if the server can max out the bw
< 1319828094 44910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if 47MiB is big or small nowadays
< 1319828098 374215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a little out of touch with file sizes
< 1319828114 738672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319828123 684671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ rm -r acehack/_darcs
< 1319828123 756979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ tar czf acehack.tar.gz acehack
< 1319828123 757132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ ls -lh acehack.tar.gz
< 1319828123 757243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 3.5M Oct 28 19:54 acehack.tar.gz
< 1319828128 666346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to upload thi so inst can download it
< 1319828130 668973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/thi/this/
< 1319828133 692740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319828141 129746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need a local-testing thingy
< 1319828142 138530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it, I'll just patch inst to do files
< 1319828153 841604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : 99     if configure == 'Makefile.PL':
< 1319828153 914151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :100         # I hate Perl programmers.
< 1319828153 914349 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :101         return []
< 1319828154 481043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1319828163 950481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you have a webserver running on the system?
< 1319828167 246365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just download from localhost
< 1319828175 85592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, curl supports file:///
< 1319828182 290531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perl shit breaks with -j iirc
< 1319828190 386755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ouch.
< 1319828212 731024 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to add some code to handle that erlang won't build with -j either. Broke recursive make I'm afraid.
< 1319828214 82805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AceHack probably also breaks with -j, because I haven't redone the build system yet
< 1319828218 529435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broken*
< 1319828223 203682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just used someone else's
< 1319828224 608123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh, ok, I'll hack it out
< 1319828229 496383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't trust it to handle parallel make correctly
< 1319828237 561260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, switch to tup
< 1319828252 794795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  File "./inst", line 85
< 1319828252 984694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    print 'Perl program; no configuration available. Sorry!'
< 1319828253 57774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                                           ^
< 1319828253 57946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax
< 1319828253 58093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.
< 1319828263 79401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, python 3?
< 1319828266 806227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1319828269 825382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch
< 1319828272 201354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1319828274 850575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most fucking ridiculous decision
< 1319828281 941924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be print('…')?
< 1319828282 139477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, switch to python2 in the shebang
< 1319828284 847184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1319828290 721819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually fuck it
< 1319828292 984084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :124     if not path.startswith('http://') and not path.startswith('ftp://'):
< 1319828293 130830 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :125         print >>sys.stderr, 'Unsupported protocol.'
< 1319828293 203001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :126         sys.exit(1)
< 1319828293 275466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just switch to print()
< 1319828300 532615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you print to a file in python3 :P
< 1319828301 535576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, YOU FAIL AT GOPHER! :P
< 1319828305 937623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh snap so i do
< 1319828307 273646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WILLFIX
< 1319828308 318283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, buggered if I know.
< 1319828324 154487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, print(foo, file=blah)
< 1319828338 517376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt curl handles gopher btw, doing a system() on lynx might be your best bet
< 1319828350 230063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow that syntax looks ugly to me
< 1319828359 835629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think it is a named parameter
< 1319828368 178993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's one character off the conventional Perl for the same thing
< 1319828370 915272 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are other URI schemes than just http:// and ftp://
< 1319828370 988021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :print(foo, file => blah)
< 1319828378 545131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that looks somewhat ugly too
< 1319828382 338727 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should include gopher://
< 1319828392 864502 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want to access local files, file:///
< 1319828396 468679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :half way through I realise that 2to3 is at hing that exists
< 1319828413 110838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 2to3 works surprisingly way in my experience
< 1319828414 217084 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly you might want to support https://
< 1319828429 261700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sftp://? And rsync://?
< 1319828454 751390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and smb://, afp://, nfs:// (does that exist?)
< 1319828455 952979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wouldn't 4to6 be more useful?
< 1319828460 613931 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are using those
< 1319828461 251264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: give me a version number for acehack
< 1319828467 502682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3.6.0alpha
< 1319828468 332844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what all those things are
< 1319828472 931910 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... stop it, you are not oerjan
< 1319828485 974486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ ./inst file:///home/elliott/inst/acehack-3.6.0alpha.tar.gz
< 1319828486 47030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Downloading acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319828486 47197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######################################################################## 100.0%
< 1319828486 467395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was quick
< 1319828491 219046 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonably sane numbering scheme?
< 1319828500 310306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SIGH @ darcs doesn't get permissions
< 1319828510 432386 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Path to inst?
< 1319828515 333637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed
< 1319828518 322397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ?
< 1319828525 302306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does sh ./perl-program work? i.e., does sh do shebangs?
< 1319828527 636293 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hand me a URL for inst.
< 1319828539 252783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: http://sprunge.us/WCXI?python
< 1319828539 471903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sh doesn't parse shebangs; perl does, though
< 1319828548 227608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, perl ./x.sh will pass it to the shell if x starts #!/bin/sh
< 1319828551 619338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, i'll just run perl then
< 1319828557 556990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    if configure == 'Makefile.PL':
< 1319828557 727686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        print('Perl program; no configuration available. Sorry!')
< 1319828557 799812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    else:
< 1319828557 799947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        run('perl', './' + configure, '--help')
< 1319828561 440610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best thing i've ever written
< 1319828562 958581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what if perl is not installed?
< 1319828566 356420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that feature was apparently invented for just that situation
< 1319828597 978493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :       If the #! line does not contain the word "perl", the program named       after the #! is executed instead of the Perl interpreter.  This is       slightly bizarre, but it helps people on machines that don't do #!,       because they can tell a program that their SHELL is /usr/bin/perl, and       Perl will then dispatch the program to the correct interpreter for       them.
< 1319828607 506274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Vorpal: OK, here goes nothing
< 1319828611 696028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ ./inst file:///home/elliott/inst/acehack-3.6.0alpha.tar.gz
< 1319828611 768111 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Downloading acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319828611 768282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######################################################################## 100.0%
< 1319828611 768390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Configuring acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319828611 768493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$
< 1319828617 604010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it just... decided that was enough?
< 1319828619 293513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about... building?
< 1319828623 670428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was surprisingly fast
< 1319828632 91268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does need to be compiled, and is unlikely to compile that instantaneously
< 1319828632 797874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or did you forget what the syntax were?
< 1319828640 116339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, something is wrong :P
< 1319828646 856270 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1319828648 868204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    print >>sys.stderr, '* Building %s...' % (package,)
< 1319828650 333029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2to3
< 1319828651 562210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm upset
< 1319828668 334498 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1319828688 182202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here goes
< 1319828701 563800 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think now I made the function of equality of functions.
< 1319828712 732173 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f == g = and $ uncurry (==) <$> zip (f <$> allValues) (g <$> allValues);
< 1319828726 975690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it, er, still quits after configuring
< 1319828730 506761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this isn't Python 3's fault
< 1319828737 599823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it on GNU hello just to check
< 1319828742 686667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a link?
< 1319828780 685959 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f == g = (f <$> allValues) == (g <$> allValues);
< 1319828790 655295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/hello/hello-2.7.tar.gz
< 1319828810 505749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello exists to be the exemplary example of packaging practices
< 1319828821 246395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, the exemplary example of things to practice packaging /on/
< 1319828838 392665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is the point of a separate exec bit in the permissions on *nix
< 1319828859 185932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: to determine what files can and can't be executed?
< 1319828859 375924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only case I can think of where it makes sense would be for a suid -r+x
< 1319828864 907375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :flood time:
< 1319828866 424270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ time ./inst ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/hello/hello-2.7.tar.gz
< 1319828866 602673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Downloading hello 2.7...
< 1319828866 675113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######################################################################## 100.0%
< 1319828866 675275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######################################################################## 100.0%* Configuring hello 2.7...
< 1319828866 675383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Building hello 2.7...
< 1319828867 439750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Installing hello 2.7...
< 1319828869 457368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password:
< 1319828871 518365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Installed hello 2.7.
< 1319828873 230557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but why not just tie it into +r
< 1319828873 487851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m25.532s
< 1319828875 580907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :user	0m7.696s
< 1319828876 736165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: +r-x?
< 1319828877 454905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys	0m4.226s
< 1319828879 559639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ ls opt/hello-2.7
< 1319828880 844845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really plausible combination
< 1319828881 610861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin  share
< 1319828883 450078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ opt/hello-2.7/bin/hello
< 1319828885 591147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!
< 1319828887 558171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :curl output got a bit messed upt here
< 1319828890 789589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and why does it matter that it is executable
< 1319828892 296103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really
< 1319828896 342913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, acehack is messing something up :)
< 1319828900 430229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tab-completion on things to execute?
< 1319828902 588328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it doesn't surprise me
< 1319828911 2289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :redoing the build system isn't a high priority, but is on the mental list
< 1319828911 621118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it shouldn't be able to crash inst silently
< 1319828915 405864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319828915 406033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bug in inst
< 1319828918 172014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why would something other than a bin directory be in PATH?
< 1319828930 993827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: doesn't need to be at the start of the line
< 1319828937 723962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I type ./tab tab
< 1319828945 3552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I want a list of all the executables in the current directory
< 1319828946 375308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking whether to enable xlogfile... yes (file xlogfile)
< 1319828946 485378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking whether to enable wizmode... yes (user wizard)
< 1319828946 557768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for owner of installed files... configure: error: in `/tmp/inst-work-c6g7hf/tree/acehack':
< 1319828946 557959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: error: test for user games failed
< 1319828946 558106 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See `config.log' for more details.
< 1319828949 209550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: help
< 1319828951 943364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm true
< 1319828963 865770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it seems that it defaults the user who owns the scorefile to "games"
< 1319828968 814242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that that user doesn't exist on the system
< 1319828978 571263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    if status > 0:
< 1319828978 643871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        if verbose:
< 1319828978 644057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            sys.stderr.write(open(work + '/build.log').read())
< 1319828978 644166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :            print('\nThis log has been written to %s/build.log.'
< 1319828978 644279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :                % (work,), file=sys.stderr)
< 1319828979 398995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        sys.exit(1)
< 1319828983 354822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why would I only print errors when verbose?
< 1319828984 573194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes
< 1319829000 610117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm
< 1319829001 495932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see
< 1319829020 774865 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you have a beautiful ending without making beautiful mistakes?
< 1319829024 249090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that's a bad default, or a case where automatic installation isn't possible
< 1319829032 201083 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's ok: inst takes configure options
< 1319829039 947552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: inst pretends to be the package configure, in fact
< 1319829042 317039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pass it --help
< 1319829048 462581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: --with-user=anything --with-group=anything
< 1319829052 998720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1319829055 631274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where anything should be appropriate
< 1319829057 173397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it cache the downloaded package or does it re-download it every time?
< 1319829066 899536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, --with-owner
< 1319829069 274913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not --with-user
< 1319829070 347588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: re-download for now :) but this is from file:///
< 1319829075 847880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1319829098 866543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let's try this again.
< 1319829112 836068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ time ./inst file:///home/elliott/inst/acehack-3.6.0alpha.tar.gz
< 1319829112 908494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Downloading acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829112 908667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######################################################################## 100.0%
< 1319829112 908777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Configuring acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829112 908883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command failed with status 1. A log has been written to /tmp/inst-work-jrdpdx/build.log.
< 1319829114 38765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	0m5.194s
< 1319829115 789528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :user	0m3.256s
< 1319829117 738084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys	0m1.010s
< 1319829119 992836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more reasonable
< 1319829125 511295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1319829126 36189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw, wrt your future distro above, maintaining a distro is a lot of work. Keeping track of hundreds of mailing lists and what not to get notified when new versions of packages are released
< 1319829129 723402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the error?
< 1319829136 369587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, I know full well
< 1319829145 807460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Debian uses daemons to watch that, rather than humans
< 1319829147 703357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the one i pasted above
< 1319829159 115616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, in /tmp/inst-work-jrdpdx/build.log
< 1319829160 885154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do you think it's coincidental that almost every package will be only a dozen or so lines long with this system? :-)
< 1319829162 886150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that might be hard for some packages.
< 1319829169 52997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD
< 1319829169 273206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just configure's output
< 1319829173 470296 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, yes
< 1319829174 34745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking whether to enable wizmode... yes (user wizard)
< 1319829174 107180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for owner of installed files... configure: error: in `/tmp/inst-work-jr
< 1319829174 107352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpdx/tree/acehack':
< 1319829174 107464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: error: test for user games failed
< 1319829174 107569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See `config.log' for more details.
< 1319829175 885917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about the kernel? I bet that will be more
< 1319829182 333097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, that's bizarre
< 1319829186 700263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: howso?
< 1319829190 198819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you saw before
< 1319829195 196590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't react to it oddly then...
< 1319829198 281255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let's try this with the options ais523 gave
< 1319829202 568413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319829204 621452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I thought you'd done it with the options
< 1319829209 39166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was wondering why it was ignoring them
< 1319829242 699030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :failed again with same error
< 1319829245 603133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./config.status --config
< 1319829245 675335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ time ./inst file:///home/elliott/inst/acehack-3.6.0alpha.tar.gz --with-owner=anything --with-group=anything
< 1319829246 778380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'--enable-wizmode=ais523' '--with-owner=ais523' '--with-group=ais523' '--prefix=/home/ais523/acehack/build'
< 1319829255 530203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, "anything" probably isn't a valid owner either
< 1319829257 766893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need to fill in relevant values for anything
< 1319829258 133392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh
< 1319829259 646131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dur :P
< 1319829263 310040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was a wildcard
< 1319829266 640741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, now hit any key
< 1319829270 660406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[any key]
< 1319829272 422776 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know how to make the list of all functions.
< 1319829272 846420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that one!
< 1319829278 991006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1319829293 644799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: same even with --with-owner=elliott --with-group=elliott
< 1319829299 512756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, bizarre
< 1319829302 607543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's an Ace bug
< 1319829303 311899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, nm path-to-ELF-file-that-isnt-stripped.o ?
< 1319829306 958369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this possibly isn't a good time to look into it
< 1319829317 627369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait
< 1319829319 886418 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not what I meant
< 1319829321 320831 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does perl pass along command line args?
< 1319829324 206548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl ./configure foo bar
< 1319829326 876834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to shell scripts
< 1319829331 959889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, but it should be easy enough to check
< 1319829337 787402 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant in Haskell, like  [a -> b]
< 1319829344 660096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, it does
< 1319829346 681284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes
< 1319829347 175097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1319829352 934745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the problem then
< 1319829358 403571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1319829359 552684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DURRR
< 1319829362 909607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?
< 1319829367 38637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :def run_configure(*args, **kwargs):
< 1319829367 111170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    global configure
< 1319829367 111361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    prefix = kwargs['prefix']
< 1319829367 111472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    if configure == 'Makefile.PL':
< 1319829367 111579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        run_silent('perl', configure, 'INSTALL_BASE=' + prefix)
< 1319829367 792167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :    else:
< 1319829369 495583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        run_silent('perl', './' + configure, '--prefix=' + prefix)
< 1319829373 719561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noticable lack of ACTUALLY USING THE ARGUMENTS
< 1319829375 648208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1319829378 416712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1319829383 250848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that slip past m
< 1319829383 745092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1319829395 315521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: just enumerate all possible files, in length-then-asciibetical order
< 1319829403 304769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and discard the ones that don't describe exactly one function
< 1319829406 146277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then remove duplicates
< 1319829412 77050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: error: test for group elliott failed
< 1319829412 149515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1319829416 562196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok elliott:users it is
< 1319829428 909871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ time ./inst file:///home/elliott/inst/acehack-3.6.0alpha.tar.gz --with-owner=elliott --with-group=users
< 1319829429 58928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Downloading acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829429 131240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######################################################################## 100.0%
< 1319829429 203627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Configuring acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829429 203762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Building acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829430 334325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I bet it will install to /var too
< 1319829430 694966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo!
< 1319829437 828542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ugh
< 1319829442 522542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it go outside --prefix
< 1319829444 745491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, normal nethack would
< 1319829446 825733 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Files? It isn't files.
< 1319829454 736703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :  --localstatedir=DIR     modifiable single-machine data [PREFIX/var]
< 1319829459 403041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew
< 1319829459 526482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not unless it's buggy
< 1319829459 941790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah nice
< 1319829481 48273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but a file can describe a function; and it's easier to enumerate files, then to enumerate functions
< 1319829499 403541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw I would switch cfunge to tup if only where was a nice configuring system that fit seamlessly with tup
< 1319829504 172673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no not kconfig
< 1319829516 582484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm reasonably sure it doesn't go outside the prefix, as I've installed it as non-root before
< 1319829518 574681 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it is auto detection, and it isn't all that many options to warrant kconfig
< 1319829521 476901 :tiffany!~kawaii@fl-76-3-16-158.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319829522 132208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to inside my home dir
< 1319829529 26258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah well i've considered working on something like that
< 1319829533 483803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but it should still be kconfig-based
< 1319829534 798819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the format
< 1319829549 659465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst-work-1_vxz8]$ ls
< 1319829549 733543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :acehack-3.6.0alpha.tar  build.log  tree
< 1319829549 733727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst-work-1_vxz8]$ ls tree
< 1319829549 733839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :acehack
< 1319829549 733948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what it looks like in the work dirs, btw
< 1319829552 362822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yay, it failed
< 1319829560 605761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[1]: *** No rule to make target `rumors.c', needed by `rumors.o'.  Stop.
< 1319829574 767080 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have [x] which list all possible value of [x], [y] which list all possible value of [y], I should make [x -> y] list all possible value of (x -> y) is what I meant. (Ignoring all undefined values)
< 1319829579 621022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but what I need is basically stuff like "detect if we have that header" or "I want to know if we have this function, and it might be in libc or in librt, because fuck freebsd"
< 1319829592 33193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder why /that/ one? it's not the first to be compiled
< 1319829592 644859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fuck linux, the point is, it differs
< 1319829594 371469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: autoconf actually works for this with tup :p
< 1319829610 683217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's probably a bad idea
< 1319829617 325161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I haven't seen any guide to how to make autoconf fit with tup
< 1319829621 380071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are an infinite number of possibilities
< 1319829624 900934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pikhq_ did it
< 1319829630 172807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/DcHH
< 1319829633 657439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(short)
< 1319829637 795970 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am using only finite types, though.
< 1319829638 131387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, got a link to details on how to fit autoconf with tup?
< 1319829640 160874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't see autoconf as a magic black box; learn how it works
< 1319829648 286383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that sounds like a lot of work
< 1319829651 171947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, in that case, it's finite, just incredibly large
< 1319829651 946495 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only functions that halt.
< 1319829656 236801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but it's the only way to use it correctly
< 1319829673 505999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's as if there's a file missing from the tarball
< 1319829680 987631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me make sure it's in the repo
< 1319829682 313535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well then, I need a simpler system. I'm just not going to invest the time into learning m4 and so on
< 1319829683 21522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: possible, darcs was a bit funny about it
< 1319829685 778365 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think for (x -> y) it will be $y^x$ so yes it will be large
< 1319829688 390170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll re-check out
< 1319829709 689117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's in the repo all right
< 1319829755 509692 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fhpxref!
< 1319829763 21505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps something autocorrected "rumors.c" to "rumours.c"?
< 1319829781 650065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, it's going again
< 1319829786 465615 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so, uh, wasn't there some sort of Homestuck IRC channel?
< 1319829792 683533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, my acehack tarball is bigger now
< 1319829795 239773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's reassuring
< 1319829815 261000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: I would put the probability of that at somewhere around p=9.
< 1319829817 825059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of 1.
< 1319829858 916109 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you'd gladly agree to give me a dollar if there is such a channel, and a million dollars if there is no such channel.
< 1319829881 344884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Yes. What's your PayPal.
< 1319829891 621309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: read the bet again
< 1319829894 420072 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since your net gain is (-1)*9 + (-1000000)*(-8) = 7999991, if I calculate correctly.
< 1319829900 284590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know what the bet says.
< 1319829902 821812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right
< 1319829916 189575 :sllide!~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319829923 326233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ time ./inst file:///home/elliott/inst/acehack-3.6.0alpha.tar.gz --with-owner=elliott --with-group=users
< 1319829923 398676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Downloading acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829923 398756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :######################################################################## 100.0%
< 1319829923 398802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Configuring acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829923 398846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Building acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829923 785017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a bizarre way for probabilities to work
< 1319829924 912558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Installing acehack 3.6.0alpha...
< 1319829926 728151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Password:
< 1319829928 794570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Installed acehack 3.6.0alpha.
< 1319829930 840301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :real	2m23.732s
< 1319829931 210025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1319829932 843256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :user	2m7.545s
< 1319829934 885248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys	0m7.546s
< 1319829936 853179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky inst]$ ls opt/acehack-3.6.0alpha
< 1319829938 717039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 minutes for a full rebuild isn't bad
< 1319829938 868751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :acehackdir  bin
< 1319829942 788489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so the answer is "yep, inst does acehack, given a system with the right groups"
< 1319829942 923531 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 9 is a bizarre probability.
< 1319829950 71238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hold on, we haven't made sure it works yet
< 1319829955 641851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, wtf kind of dirname is acehackdir?
< 1319829960 930523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't fit in any filesystem standard
< 1319829964 664230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "acehack's configure file creates a new directory directly under /usr"
< 1319829976 477764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's a good bug title
< 1319829977 395791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mentally yells at the SLASH'EM devs
< 1319830007 135223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the directory can't be placed anywhere under the FHS, incidentally; some of it belongs in /usr, some in /var, some even in /var/run
< 1319830014 967828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to do proper moving of files to the right place
< 1319830015 556140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean /run
< 1319830015 822945 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you happen to remember the server this channel was on?
< 1319830022 509099 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What am I kidding.  I can find it as long as it was mentioned in here.
< 1319830024 680960 :tswett!~Warrigal@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever.
< 1319830025 831746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there is no /run
< 1319830029 245599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you are wrong
< 1319830034 401731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really?
< 1319830042 817736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: recently accepted addition, replacing /var/run
< 1319830046 528457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls /run
< 1319830047 204210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as some other parts of /var I think
< 1319830047 727763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /run: No such file or directory
< 1319830049 322180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting
< 1319830052 839205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's in latest ubuntu
< 1319830054 14507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and debian
< 1319830055 17125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arch
< 1319830057 685886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything
< 1319830057 821773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> also, "acehack's configure file creates a new directory directly under /usr" <--- .... what?
< 1319830062 261751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd need to have a fallback
< 1319830063 74146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ever heard of /etc?
< 1319830064 910944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a bug, OK?
< 1319830071 167141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, /etc is not the right place to put it either
< 1319830072 91364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1319830088 398109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Vorpal: http://i.imgur.com/qguK0.png
< 1319830103 514587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it's meant to look like, at least
< 1319830105 565325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> ais523: recently accepted addition, replacing /var/run <-- well, that is new. is it FHS?
< 1319830109 289726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1319830114 720105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1319830116 314877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be published
< 1319830119 715995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when did that happen. None of my systems have it
< 1319830127 154283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: recently
< 1319830133 169763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this year
< 1319830150 978309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cool, it's a full moon
< 1319830154 363881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway if arch have it I need to clean up that mess. Because of how my partitions are set up it doesn't make sense.
< 1319830158 429821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks acehack
< 1319830164 777470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it does make sense
< 1319830174 49316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but not wrt my partitions
< 1319830174 182817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what doesn't make sense is /var containing both volatile and non-volatile data
< 1319830174 557495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lucky!
< 1319830187 183397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory
< 1319830192 732370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, / is on an SSD, /var is not
< 1319830195 302590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: further evidence is that /var is on a different filesystem to /var/run on this system
< 1319830208 284597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh, tmpfs?
< 1319830213 198241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense I guess
< 1319830225 852582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1319830225 924884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is mostly pid files and sockets
< 1319830226 755253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: run on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,size=10240k,mode=755)
< 1319830230 618335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/run _is_ a tmpfs
< 1319830242 913166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right
< 1319830246 944756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works then
< 1319830264 230919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can confirm that AceHack works
< 1319830277 731530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1319830300 352127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fully? Does saving and exiting work?
< 1319830314 939102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does score file work if you die?
< 1319830325 494791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(easier to check than ascending!)
< 1319830326 389927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it tries to write an insurance lockfile as soon as you start playing
< 1319830331 604593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that goes to the same place as save files
< 1319830334 501509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm dying now
< 1319830338 816542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be shocking if one worked but not the other
< 1319830339 39386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prayed a few times
< 1319830344 93944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah
< 1319830361 613798 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it is quite possible. Disk full for example
< 1319830369 210060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and that's inst's fault how?
< 1319830372 762042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no
< 1319830376 153869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I meant in general
< 1319830396 863507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, my god sends the shittiest death threats
< 1319830404 573937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh?
< 1319830417 534300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've currently outrun it for like a hundred turns :P
< 1319830427 176764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it?
< 1319830431 919465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no disintegration beam?
< 1319830440 664201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the couatl of amaterasu omikami
< 1319830445 431273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, once you get a negative prayer effect, you'll get nothing but negatives until you atone
< 1319830447 50332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sam?
< 1319830448 533196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prays again with 1 hp for shits and giggles
< 1319830449 687481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right
< 1319830462 130668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, i died
< 1319830480 731665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<ais523> btw, once you get a negative prayer effect, you'll get nothing but negatives until you atone <-- I thought there was a timeout? Or is this behaviour new in acehack?
< 1319830492 306005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sam?
< 1319830502 291721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1319830506 76106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1319830510 456997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I asked if you played sam
< 1319830513 455594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it's in vanilla too
< 1319830518 724549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh
< 1319830523 393609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the timeout's on positive effects
< 1319830523 563209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, I just accepted the defaults
< 1319830528 794357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see
< 1319830531 279119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the defaults are random each time
< 1319830534 511122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did the score work if you look at it?
< 1319830554 342321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you check scores without playing again?
< 1319830563 990198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question, I never did
< 1319830569 893076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a scores option in the main menu
< 1319830575 602617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thanks
< 1319830580 567025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1319830600 897909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually, I'll make the game return to the main menu after you die or win
< 1319830606 343643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what distros use systemd btw?
< 1319830607 10267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably via self-exec()
< 1319830607 674489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you should probably default to something else if games doesn't exist
< 1319830613 695381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so do I, but I'm not sure what
< 1319830621 375266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: root? user running ./configure?
< 1319830621 875455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :root is a security risk
< 1319830624 894464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, self-exec()... Won't that mess with the sgid?
< 1319830628 449846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :user running configure might make sense
< 1319830629 974218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably latter)
< 1319830637 952889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fedora
< 1319830639 987153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think suse
< 1319830641 798825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, nobody
< 1319830650 306645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, so two horrible distros
< 1319830655 891921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't see why not; you can exec an sgid file even if you already have group perms
< 1319830657 699058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, linus uses fedora :)
< 1319830663 402187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if you couldn't, you can just drop them first
< 1319830691 17202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you could just drop them first
< 1319830696 131301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, won't it mess up the real gid or the egid or whichever one point to the group that was before the sgid took place?
< 1319830709 12230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I think inst could be legitimately useful if it spit out a package rather than doing the installation immediately
< 1319830715 332914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought he switched some time ago? Might misremember
< 1319830720 934584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: real gid, yes; I don't think that's used for anything, though
< 1319830721 777291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be like checkinstall, except not terrible
< 1319830787 600275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i noticed that monqy is here yet
< 1319830789 38530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because hi monqy
< 1319830797 657565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think it is quite useful already. I tend to install stuff I install manually to ~/local/<optional category, only have "games" and "compilers" currently>/package-name/<optional version, if it is useful for the package in question>/
< 1319830830 307574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's useful :) but it doesn't handle the failure case much
< 1319830831 288010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you did way above
< 1319830841 88139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it works, it works brilliantly
< 1319830859 381500 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tends to install things in ~/local/stow/packagename-version/
< 1319830873 961666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what about tup + autoconf. I never saw a reply to my question about that
< 1319830880 268000 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What about it?
< 1319830884 56945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stow: because I want _two_ package managers in my life
< 1319830898 282680 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, how is it done. I'm no autoconf wizard, not do I feel like becoming one just for that,.
< 1319830900 641851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,//
< 1319830909 752127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, now i'm wondering if the configuration management system could be a build system too :)
< 1319830910 220849 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm also currently using shell scripts to build. So, more like 1.
< 1319830915 343855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's dependencies, and constraint solving, and configuration...
< 1319830917 41922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, stow being?
< 1319830926 448848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that was blindingly fast
< 1319830927 633814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: gnu stow
< 1319830930 555921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just sent around 100 emails in a few seconds
< 1319830932 534503 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's actually really, really simple. You have autoconf replace variables in a Tup file of some sort.
< 1319830933 229662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as referenced at * pikhq_ tends to install things in ~/local/stow/packagename-version/
< 1319830946 506929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you started spamming?
< 1319830957 78242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, although I think the module I'm using was designed for spambots
< 1319830961 107734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sending personalised receipts
< 1319830966 940610 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I had a better package manager for ~/local/, I'd use it. As is, GNU stow is (barely) sufficient for my uses.
< 1319830967 379115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for submissions
< 1319830969 754820 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Stow <-- "this page has been deleted", fuck you
< 1319831005 7478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the site describes it
< 1319831011 501476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right
< 1319831018 678955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it basically merges a bunch of DESTDIR installs into a single tree
< 1319831021 899199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with links
< 1319831036 407102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<pikhq_> Vorpal: It's actually really, really simple. You have autoconf replace variables in a Tup file of some sort. <-- oh okay
< 1319831042 656075 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(autoconf, FWIW, is actually *very* build-system agnostic. *All* it does is test things, storing the results in variables, and replacing those variables in a given list of files)
< 1319831042 945407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what about any config.h or such?
< 1319831056 508700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an autoconf script for jettyplay
< 1319831066 129794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is jettyplay?
< 1319831067 696058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it would be easily picked up by autobuildy sytems
< 1319831072 444518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: GUI ttyrec player
< 1319831074 293343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in Java
< 1319831074 365394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tarball link plz
< 1319831077 221810 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I see
< 1319831087 872705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I have online tarballs of it
< 1319831090 236821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just jar files
< 1319831091 262414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn
< 1319831098 380629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was basically just written for debhelper
< 1319831102 473113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1319831114 824134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i might as well ask -
< 1319831126 330373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is debhelper? Another one of their automated package construction tools?
< 1319831129 550041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes
< 1319831134 612560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's debian's main package construction tool
< 1319831137 161206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe
< 1319831141 263141 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's some command to tell autoconf to do the config.h substitution.
< 1319831146 574903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can nc you the tarball that got produced when I did the local equivalent of apt-get source
< 1319831151 398345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can open a port inbound
< 1319831159 819372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: umm, maybe, but not this second
< 1319831162 795752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough
< 1319831174 778248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, idea for inst feature: git, svn, hg, darcs, bzr support. The handling of different types could probably be done with a dict in python, making it trivial to add new ones
< 1319831181 401284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway - does anyone know of a unified command to access unarchivers? I really want to be able to just type a command, an archive name, and have it extract, accounting for tarbombs
< 1319831187 976274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, hm as long as it works with tup
< 1319831199 291368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know how to write extensible software :)
< 1319831204 628954 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not as nicely as it *could*, but it does work.
< 1319831225 175416 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 7z is close, but not *quite* there.
< 1319831232 636215 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't handle tarbombs.
< 1319831246 914814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I seem to remember such a tool in portage somewhere. And portage has its own one as a bash function somewhere to help unpack for ebuilds
< 1319831252 31711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the l option of 7z to display the list
< 1319831261 797111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can handle tarbombs automatically by untarring in an empty directory, then removing one level of directory structure if necessary
< 1319831268 509703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the idea
< 1319831275 542738 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not helpful if you want it to be automatic.
< 1319831278 389095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could just do tar -> unzip -> unrar
< 1319831282 737877 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK
< 1319831285 195927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do the tarbomb protection and unified unarchiver separately
< 1319831285 544599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar detects compression, after all
< 1319831292 189300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pretty sure 7z handles zip and rar as well as tar.gz
< 1319831293 721111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: really?
< 1319831301 632970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, "tar xf foo.tar.blah" works just fine
< 1319831302 93163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you had to give an appropriate option character
< 1319831303 460606 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: GNU tar and Busybox tar do, at least.
< 1319831304 670584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome
< 1319831308 588465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know
< 1319831311 253073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually 7z might just unpack the .gz level of a tar.gz, not the tar level as well
< 1319831318 34405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know the windows 7-zip does that
< 1319831319 658212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :7z is so windowsy :(
< 1319831322 375549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll still add the z because my tab-complete likes it, though
< 1319831326 80489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is that yes
< 1319831335 407101 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, 7z does just unpack the .gz level
< 1319831340 228616 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to unpack the .tar separately
< 1319831346 612544 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's moronic.
< 1319831348 913427 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the command-line 7z
< 1319831349 862489 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1319831361 755250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about, say, if there's a .jar in a .zip
< 1319831366 835686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to unpack two levels then
< 1319831376 520113 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to unpack all levels separately.
< 1319831376 725050 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That itself is pretty moronic. :)
< 1319831379 474092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, but tar.gz is quite a special case
< 1319831384 709028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say, stop unpacking as soon as you see any files that aren't compressed
< 1319831390 966067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if there are compressed files in the directory too
< 1319831391 62681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I like it unpacking all levels separately I prefer this way.
< 1319831394 44858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about .gz.tar?
< 1319831395 570276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, not really, if you want to distribute a collection of .jars as one file, how would you do that
< 1319831402 977402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my suggestion handles .gz.tar
< 1319831405 337889 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it could be an option to unpakc multiple levels maybe there should be that one.
< 1319831408 812004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about anything packed by Xilinx?
< 1319831416 25900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are we talking about the same .gz.tar?
< 1319831422 586063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: from my experience with Xilinx, it's probably insane
< 1319831427 112083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes
< 1319831428 463154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gzip each file individually, then tarball the result?
< 1319831431 657899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep
< 1319831435 282384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd see that /all/ the files are compressed/archived
< 1319831441 205836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd decompressarchive them all one level
< 1319831446 793058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's a mix, you don't decompressarchive any of them
< 1319831463 539453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't quite remember, it was some time ago. But I think it was bz2.rar.zip.tar.gz basically
< 1319831463 873418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a heuristic for detecting whether the files are meant to stay compressed or not
< 1319831470 725198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's impressive
< 1319831475 969032 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should unpack only one level by default, but have an option to select how many levels you want
< 1319831478 825499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, might misremember the .rar level, could have been another tar
< 1319831481 371140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something
< 1319831488 724138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, where should I put the source directories for arch packages I create myself?
< 1319831494 262059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just created a haskell-groom/ dir with cabal2arch
< 1319831496 303886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /usr/src?
< 1319831500 1865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but am not sure where to put it for permanent storage
< 1319831503 778672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
< 1319831504 12467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: plausible
< 1319831516 865674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? ~/src/system/foo/PKGBUILD is what I use
< 1319831521 354265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but that is my system
< 1319831526 53994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or what do you mean
< 1319831530 175805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just wondering if there was a standard location
< 1319831538 999090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you find one, tell me
< 1319831545 979599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably somewhere in ABS or something :P
< 1319831554 932545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers going back to his his hierarchy-free home directory system
< 1319831555 637304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, doubtful, abs is updated by rsync
< 1319831559 336182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jettyplay-0.1~alpha1/src/jettyplay/InputStreamableFileContentsWrapper.java
< 1319831568 108910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the joys of Java
< 1319831578 592600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what a horribly long class name
< 1319831589 32961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my homedir uses a reasonably simple and consistent filing system
< 1319831589 207576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to help me find things quickly
< 1319831592 675479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about "what will ais523 remember" more than anything else
< 1319831605 422269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I do the same, modulo person who is to remember
< 1319831609 37906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a wrapper around FileContents so that it implements InputStreamable
< 1319831626 611580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure that it could be easily shortened and still describe what it does that accurately
< 1319831626 793983 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I end up with lot of temporary crap in ~ that I forget to remove
< 1319831639 310069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, what AUR helper do you use, if any
< 1319831641 781590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like whatever.mp4 from youtube-dl and so on
< 1319831653 248069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> except I end up with lot of temporary crap in ~ that I forget to remove
< 1319831657 142408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what my hierarchy-free system solved
< 1319831662 476889 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make the Haskell library to access DVI printing file, what would it be called and what namespace and so on?
< 1319831662 657049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh?
< 1319831672 282793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I accidentally deleted all the files in ~ a while ago
< 1319831674 310677 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yaourt. I know there are more modern ones. But don't fix what isn't broken.
< 1319831674 947202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't lose much
< 1319831679 731209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaourt is so broken :P
< 1319831686 495396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't delete any of the /directories/; it was a non-recursive rm * in ~)
< 1319831694 73747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, WFM. YMMV
< 1319831710 528122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I use grub 1 because I don't fix what isn't broken
< 1319831719 548704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides on my setup it would be risky to switch
< 1319831719 702432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--arch user
< 1319831728 750493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, conclusions: elliott is trying out Arch, is annoyed at its package management system
< 1319831731 462494 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :both my laptop and my desktop use somewhat complicated grub setups
< 1319831737 385253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop because dm-crypt
< 1319831741 4871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my desktop because mdraid
< 1319831743 64674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more than trying
< 1319831748 655808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :settled on?
< 1319831753 950527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it looked like: "special types" at the top level (ok, this is a kind of hieracrhy, but a tolerable one; lowercase is fine too): ~/Code, ~/Music, etc.; but then: ~/Downloads, for /anything/ that comes from an external source; this has to be wiped every two days or so for the system to work; and finally, the most important place, ~/Keep/YYYY-MM
< 1319831769 944902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh
< 1319831771 155563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you move things from Downloads to the appropriate Keep so that they don't get mercilessly wiped out
< 1319831778 721712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty good at forcing you to decide what to do with a file
< 1319831789 61623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I keep both Downloads and Documents relatively clean
< 1319831790 193533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no files other than config and the like go in ~/
< 1319831802 970510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the difference between them offhand, but they're both small enough that I can typically remember which a file is in
< 1319831803 162463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have ~/music ~/videos and so on. Every so often I clean out ~ and move stuff I want to keep but don't know where it should go into ~/other
< 1319831814 130398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/other is a mess
< 1319831823 666024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there a way to get yaourt to use the PKGBUILD in a current directory rather than looking at aur... :)
< 1319831824 343667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I create a new top-level directory whenever I have something that can't reasonably be classified into the existing ones
< 1319831830 36309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you should try ~/keep :P
< 1319831833 243631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can assert it's THE BEST.
< 1319831835 240536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something ends up important enough, it gets a top-level directory of its own
< 1319831844 247635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> hmm, is there a way to get yaourt to use the PKGBUILD in a current directory rather than looking at aur... :) <-- no need, the command to build directly is trivial
< 1319831848 252577 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just makepkg -c
< 1319831852 801567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but I need to install the deps
< 1319831858 622075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah
< 1319831859 936218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you download to /tmp by default? because I do, and it saves a lot of trouble about download clutter
< 1319831861 633478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if I do it explicitly, it'll count as an explicit install
< 1319831874 373343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather keep the explicit install list only be things I actually wanted to install as a top-level goal
< 1319831879 811931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then sudo pacman -U foo.whatever.is.the.current.compression.format
< 1319831880 486731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe makepkg -s will do it
< 1319831888 894698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, even more commonly, if I want to open a file that's online, I copy-paste the URL into the viewing application
< 1319831890 277566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, --asdeps?
< 1319831891 858056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it's an AUR dependency
< 1319831899 373350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319831899 632331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh, that exists?
< 1319831899 918570 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone sad my name while i was gone (i was gone)
< 1319831900 143760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1319831905 515388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for pacman, not sure for yaourt
< 1319831906 668820 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(((bacck now)))))
< 1319831914 602028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :)hi(
< 1319831915 282226 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, might be asdep too, check exact spelling
< 1319831932 67475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy
< 1319831946 800593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, upload any generally useful PKGBUILD you create to AUR.
< 1319831949 728919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yaourt -S noidentd-git... do you DARE.............
< 1319831953 800851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ALREADY DONE
< 1319831963 641696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but this one is just an auto-generated newer version of a haskell lib
< 1319831968 123278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 creative input from me at all
< 1319831969 38305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I will update the ick one tomorrow unless something unexpected happens
< 1319831971 480510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't replace the AUR evrsion
< 1319831976 822157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ev/ve/
< 1319831984 774399 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, flag the existing one as outdated
< 1319831991 266599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :planning to
< 1319832008 294197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that notify the maintainers?
< 1319832013 590060 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how that works, since it's maintained by the arch-haskell group
< 1319832016 619237 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im bad at dareing...
< 1319832018 776174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can be done for normal packages from the front page btw, search for the package and mark it
< 1319832027 934121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and it notifies by email iirc
< 1319832041 270478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you know how whenever you connect to freenode it waits for a few seconds before giving the motd.......
< 1319832045 141054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and no idea if it is maintained by a group
< 1319832053 647582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you know how that evil ~ is infesting the start of your username in whois.........
< 1319832055 129521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would assume it does, otherwise what use would it be
< 1319832056 348938 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah and then it puts a squiggle on my username yeah that
< 1319832066 909685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wasn't even aware a group could maintain an AUR package
< 1319832070 264202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: noidentd.... solves this...... with elliott hird quality code
< 1319832073 867915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a separate team account
< 1319832077 87425 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :teMPTING
< 1319832081 665686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. No idea how that works
< 1319832086 365870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: only one ... config option...
< 1319832094 316003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rc.d....... support...........
< 1319832096 404530 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before i try it: i amg oing to get aurget (unlesss it's: bad)
< 1319832100 182060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, identd thingy won't work because of NAT
< 1319832103 396788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me at least
< 1319832109 306231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i dunno it... felt kinda unreliable to me
< 1319832111 964708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be my bad impressions
< 1319832112 297851 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1319832116 57476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have trust issues with software
< 1319832117 696905 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is           yaourt better
< 1319832117 877187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by all means try it
< 1319832123 60844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was certainly sleek-feeling
< 1319832128 627509 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i already have yaourt so
< 1319832130 775088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i am sure monqy has the power... of nat..................... or something
< 1319832197 410761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with these aur helpers is that they're so obviously thin wrappers over other tools
< 1319832202 409968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they feel so shoddy :p
< 1319832211 518384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not so thin wrappers in the case of yaourt
< 1319832216 299509 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thick wrappers
< 1319832307 549621 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1319832355 225431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yaourt works quite nicely I found. Never really had any problems with it, except when pacman ABI broke and I had to reinstall yaourt by hand
< 1319832488 28815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: have you...enjoyed....the magiceke.,
< 1319832522 810392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I hate you, now I feel like having a go at writing that configuration manager. :/
< 1319832528 920749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1319832540 679397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 hours in, and my latest and greatest markov model generator
< 1319832540 939501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, what did I say?
< 1319832542 383925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been letting yaourt do its thing over there becase ut's slow and forgot about it
< 1319832545 730689 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remembering now:
< 1319832546 436599 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :has not even finished the first 4 datasets....
< 1319832553 158825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: YOU ASKED ME QUESTIONS
< 1319832556 848040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh okay
< 1319832558 43776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: this is because perl sucks
< 1319832578 929351 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not really sure what's so different about this one to make it this much slower...
< 1319832586 372012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the regex is even precompiled this time. :P
< 1319832610 484105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: (the config file... is /etc/conf.d/noidentd...)
< 1319832618 477062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the code... is https://github.com/ehird/noidentd/blob/master/noidentd.c...)
< 1319832634 534450 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: noitdentd blog master
< 1319832645 194649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankey ou
< 1319832685 749029 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instaled it (loeking at config nwo)
< 1319832699 120833 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could write a C program to do this correctly
< 1319832703 814273 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :before this script finishes
< 1319832706 522523 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then that program
< 1319832708 989613 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess i put monqy in there eh
< 1319832710 800054 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :finishes before this script finishes.
< 1319832740 143065 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i do anything else or just let it do its magic now
< 1319832745 990416 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time i connect, I mean
< 1319832746 493335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well you are "swell"
< 1319832751 948676 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh swell
< 1319832754 727610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would put swell in there toget the same thing now
< 1319832755 674080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but monqy
< 1319832756 551305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fine too
< 1319832759 79180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you would then be monqy
< 1319832761 623769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick your favourite...
< 1319832761 829261 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319832763 640061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, what sort of regex? Any backrefs?
< 1319832771 196101 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be swell
< 1319832773 712610 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i could change it
< 1319832776 147890 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to be chap
< 1319832784 54241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought swell was your name or something
< 1319832784 687804 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was another one i wanted to try but i forget it
< 1319832793 646156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this fan is worrying m
< 1319832793 867997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html
< 1319832794 364959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e
< 1319832796 864924 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :swell is a good name but not mine
< 1319832797 419109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts like full blast
< 1319832801 87093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then half a second later cuts immediately
< 1319832804 164520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux what are you doing
< 1319832824 76395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ghc is hogging cpu
< 1319832833 141964 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it's just a character class followed by a +
< 1319832834 398136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he's using perl so he can hardly just switch regexp engines
< 1319832855 724757 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: should be linear time, with single words (thus very small n's)
< 1319832856 713340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you could implement a different regexp engine as a perl package!
< 1319832862 753667 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thought that isn't what I meant.
< 1319832866 672162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: anyway once you save that you need to start it
< 1319832874 766938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what I meant with that link was: "maybe this would explain your issue"
< 1319832876 325801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: add @noidentd to your DAEMONS array is the best idea
< 1319832884 604620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "sudo rc.d start noidentd" until reboot........
< 1319832886 130572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that starts it
< 1319832891 28437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it uses no resources ever)
< 1319832896 212143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(constant memory and time always)
< 1319832900 806334 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the main difference is that I switched from
< 1319832914 596201 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$word =~ $not_this_character_class
< 1319832915 668775 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to
< 1319832919 33700 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :startd
< 1319832929 133278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$word =~ $this_character_class_one_or_more_times
< 1319832948 836380 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: and then.........
< 1319832951 546974 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I would think should be exactly the same or maybe a bit faster?
< 1319832952 838459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: reconeocneocetecte
< 1319832955 901767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, why even use perl for this...
< 1319832955 974194 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :righte..
< 1319832958 825880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice faster connect... happier life
< 1319832961 473662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happier world
< 1319832963 464658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :happier oisdjf
< 1319832966 378380 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not sure, it's what I started with. :P
< 1319832972 49765 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello
< 1319832976 63325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello monqy
< 1319832987 945181 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319832991 301554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye monqy oh
< 1319832993 286364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't work
< 1319832995 817202 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crys
< 1319832997 553595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you have a fierierweall
< 1319833005 824028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps
< 1319833013 68392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: can you... forward port 113.......
< 1319833013 326804 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1319833025 844276 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;ll try
< 1319833113 580090 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should rewrite this part in Haskell or something, which would force me to not use a horrible format.
< 1319833118 718756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for storing the data.
< 1319833127 429167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: haskell n-gram (c) me
< 1319833139 249019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although mine is about ~999999% more advanced so GO AHEAD I GUESS
< 1319833150 146591 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no i actually can't because someone did password changeing and did not tell me
< 1319833165 277659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that person is...mean tell them of,e
< 1319833175 37183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell them, stop change paswioerd
< 1319833181 935680 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is?
< 1319833193 32675 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best part is he probably forgot the new password too
< 1319833195 371887 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we have to reset it
< 1319833196 48350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :again
< 1319833199 649554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :crys in hole
< 1319833204 680284 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought yours wasn't quite so advanced, or is this a new thing?
< 1319833205 532727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, ask him to not change the password?
< 1319833211 552626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, or change it before he does
< 1319833246 500093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im sit in hole
< 1319833250 447472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I bet I know why this is going slower.
< 1319833251 734283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :creying in symphony
< 1319833255 273867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reverse lookbehind.
< 1319833262 998731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, why did you do that
< 1319833270 75331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, of course that is going to be slow
< 1319833274 334601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake "clever" prophet
< 1319833283 601645 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cake "just woke up" prophet :P
< 1319833293 278796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you might want to... remove from daemons array... except it literally takes something like fifty bytes of ram so maybe you don't care
< 1319833298 648838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you didn't code it when you just woke up
< 1319833299 696931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so duh
< 1319833308 496789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries very hard to use no resources :P
< 1319833312 458168 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, well, in English I want to avoid 's at the end of words
< 1319833321 322977 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wasn't thinking about efficiency at the time. :P
< 1319833325 36126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, 50 bytes? Including libc?
< 1319833331 459504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's shared
< 1319833333 726884 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ISN'T PREMATURE OPTIMIZATION BAD OR SOMETHING?
< 1319833340 143204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONALD KUHNUTH?
< 1319833350 872795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind said like 30 bytes still reachable on exit, anyway :P
< 1319833354 795331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so add like twenty on that because
< 1319833357 430703 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right
< 1319833363 266029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's actually more than that, it's at least...
< 1319833373 928354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so say, a few kB
< 1319833380 708842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...at least 240 because of the buffers
< 1319833388 651132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus ten times struct pollfd
< 1319833399 801258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus like six pointer-sized values :P
< 1319833405 415400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, barely anything
< 1319833406 42729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, plus some hidden buffers in libc.
< 1319833407 304607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure how to restrict words that end with 's without making it a negative lookbehind
< 1319833411 326319 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's probably possible.
< 1319833412 117727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uh, doubt it
< 1319833416 324456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm okay
< 1319833418 72240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for stdio i guess
< 1319833421 39946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1319833426 484018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but i'm using berkeley sockets/poll/recv/send
< 1319833428 880154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not for the sockets
< 1319833437 502497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but stdin/stdout will be open and initialised
< 1319833441 184227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have buffers
< 1319833447 366338 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, of course it's possible, but it has to fit into my awesome command line option to pass arbitrary regex. :P
< 1319833447 524982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you don't use them
< 1319833452 559677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should close stdio, i don't use them after startup
< 1319833460 305489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could rewrite that stuff to use write() :)
< 1319833471 778848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe you should use newlib
< 1319833482 954326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :musl :p
< 1319833505 818989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bare metal. as a TSR hidden from linux. Somehow
< 1319833519 594387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that above the kernel debugging thing
< 1319833520 160644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMI?
< 1319833522 126875 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys what would happen if GNU merged with Donald Knuth
< 1319833522 460980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: above statement made no sense)
< 1319833527 376036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or below the kernel i guess
< 1319833532 206684 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and crerates the unstopeaable DONALD GNUTH
< 1319833533 909108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think SMM
< 1319833535 785508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... yeah System Management Mode
< 1319833637 937094 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: let 's do its thing
< 1319833641 11687 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: 's is great
< 1319833656 579889 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`macro
< 1319833661 678304 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UH
< 1319833675 14313 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`macro
< 1319833679 813113 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CESIUM'S
< 1319833682 877584 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes good
< 1319833709 873930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh cesium's
< 1319833809 896260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319833826 404396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what does macro do?
< 1319833828 584553 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`macro
< 1319833829 610980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`macro
< 1319833830 271705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`macro
< 1319833836 656378 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmacro: <stdout>: commitBuffer: invalid argument (Invalid or incomplete multibyte or wide character)
< 1319833836 939812 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFK'S
< 1319833843 74257 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wacro
< 1319833844 760383 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wacro: not found
< 1319833845 82190 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPTON'S
< 1319833882 378677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmacro: <stdout>: commitBuffer: invalid argument (Invalid or incomplete multibyte or wide character)
< 1319833883 540654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good word
< 1319833894 758812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY OERJAN CAN I INTEREST YOU IN- dammit you already have an identd.
< 1319833903 46212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy that.
< 1319833914 647018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan that is immoral.
< 1319833922 856167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1319833928 959203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :immoral.
< 1319833935 217953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patriots use noidentd.
< 1319833983 115197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bouncer and a cloak, i presume
< 1319833992 42632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA*
< 1319834031 273067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO BOUNCER HERE
< 1319834034 592078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ehird/noidentd/blob/master/noidentd.c
< 1319834035 832237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOIDENTD
< 1319834038 376827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOFTWARE OF PATRIOTS
< 1319834053 248115 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was that a dagger and cloak pun?
< 1319834126 421229 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1319834222 717617 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :derpa derpa
< 1319834225 708538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no.
< 1319834257 397026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, IT COULD HAVE BEEN!
< 1319834258 774808 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I have a lbirary called derpa
< 1319834263 978506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :DARPA
< 1319834269 357782 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/copumpkin/derpa
< 1319834285 397498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, no that is a library
< 1319834289 474140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a library if nobody uses it OH SNAEPEPPEPEPE
< 1319834291 614186 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp
< 1319834293 4888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPNEAPNEPNWEPFWEFPEPF
< 1319834293 862580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lbirary as you stated above
< 1319834294 310693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EPRJOETJG
< 1319834294 912677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :H
< 1319834302 699663 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that is awesome
< 1319834306 500883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is nobody uses agda
< 1319834306 972225 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eprjoetjgh
< 1319834309 827244 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you!
< 1319834324 514314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<CakeProphet> guys what would happen if GNU merged with Donald Knuth
< 1319834330 425765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfgd
< 1319834330 995534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnothing good, i predict
< 1319834333 189540 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: or did you just upload it now because I mentioned it?
< 1319834344 119687 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: nope, check the dates on it
< 1319834349 801085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION declares the logs too long to read today
< 1319834386 371347 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I would need, like, proof that it was called derpa before today
< 1319834393 340778 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: lol
< 1319834406 895383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just realised why DDG will never be a success.
< 1319834425 348409 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof seems to be slightly lacking though, afaik you just uploaded this half a minute ago
< 1319834438 612283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/copumpkin
< 1319834440 64370 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, try saying it as a verb. Very awkward: "ddging" or "duckduckgoing"?
< 1319834479 824311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin updated gist: 1286093 October 14, 2011
< 1319834479 986013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no largest prime
< 1319834480 58309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cutting-edge mathematical research
< 1319834489 287034 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: STFU
< 1319834491 958234 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was difficult :P
< 1319834496 732846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is that nobody uses Agda :D
< 1319834503 420163 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU
< 1319834504 142208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan declares the logs too long to read today <-- but... but... there is AWESOME stuff in it!
< 1319834525 109592 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody uses agda?
< 1319834551 804834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :<elliott> There is no largest prime <-- where did copumpkin prove that?
< 1319834564 175276 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's been stalking me again
< 1319834567 187910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/1286093
< 1319834567 942586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see this front edge of the science of mathematics
< 1319834578 680879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: no, olsner mentioned derpa's upload time :P
< 1319834585 488375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I PROVED YOU INNOCENT
< 1319834592 155228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then went in search for agda-mocking material ofc
< 1319834598 349008 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'(
< 1319834607 993515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, elliott, come on, that proof is huge
< 1319834615 311536 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that gist based on derpa?
< 1319834619 782364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah copumpkin is stupid go do some booklearning from euclid
< 1319834622 17187 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's euclid's proof
< 1319834635 287466 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the usual statement of euclid's proof doesn't go into the details
< 1319834642 498328 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :agda forces us to
< 1319834646 2867 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is both good and bad, I guess
< 1319834649 361807 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(afaict it isn't)
< 1319834659 150920 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't based on derpa, no
< 1319834661 824531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, well of course, it assumes a human is reading it and can think
< 1319834691 441159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :burrrrrrn
< 1319834694 344408 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should learn agda
< 1319834695 641221 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, sure, but it invokes a limited form of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic
< 1319834700 394461 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that most people don't mention
< 1319834702 136682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: then you will become nobody
< 1319834708 545457 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an exciting prospect
< 1319834712 474314 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's interesting to see what things it actually needs
< 1319834747 25588 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like how most presentations of category theory completely gloss over what equality/equivalence means
< 1319834773 464069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, because it is in the standard library of maths basically.
< 1319834787 361742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no /need/ for it when talking to a human
< 1319834794 580263 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you still need to call standard library functions ;)
< 1319834802 745444 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just leave them out and hope the compiler figures them out
< 1319834806 145941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, yes, we do that by saying "="
< 1319834809 316716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how we call it
< 1319834815 296503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: why are you wasting your time
< 1319834815 368818 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?
< 1319834831 197189 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean invoke, not name
< 1319834832 49815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, or rather, writing "=" and saying "equals"
< 1319834865 293305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, that is how we invoke them. Example. "5 = 4+1", there, I invoked the standard library of arithmetics.
< 1319834875 123631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is really stupid
< 1319834876 620857 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you invoked addition by writing addition
< 1319834881 686639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes.
< 1319834884 954057 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wrote the symbol +
< 1319834885 431943 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulationse
< 1319834889 833563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, exactly what I was saying. :P
< 1319834896 29243 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does euclid's proof mention the fundamental theorem of math?
< 1319834896 697075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := = + --vorpal
< 1319834898 90366 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Vorpal> elliott, try saying it as a verb. Very awkward: "ddging" or "duckduckgoing"? <-- just call it "quacking" and a day.
< 1319834899 326253 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is this going. why is this going.
< 1319834899 732500 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetic
< 1319834905 503618 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't
< 1319834906 657109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, awesome
< 1319834907 842178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote <monqy> where is this going. why is this going.
< 1319834909 890097 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :698) <monqy> where is this going. why is this going.
< 1319834912 634940 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes "the fundamental theorem of math"
< 1319834913 455442 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are implicitly invoking it because it doesn't work otherwise
< 1319834919 23162 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be like me writing x = 4 7
< 1319834926 120905 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hoping the compiler can figure out that a + belongs there
< 1319834927 228487 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :698 quotes? wow
< 1319834929 387968 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if there was any context, but I hope not.
< 1319834934 595930 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 697
< 1319834937 129093 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :697) <elliott> Magnetic butterfly is slower than cat and restarting if you make a mistake is slower than vi is slower than mind-reading.
< 1319834967 165548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, it assumes that it is defined in the context of the theory used for the proof. You start the proof with the meaning of the basics already available normally. Of course agda needs more
< 1319834972 432652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey which one in the logs was which :P
< 1319835079 523929 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm saying it wasn't obvious to me that that the proof needed it, until I sat down and worked through the details of the proof
< 1319835089 688396 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving things implicit increases perceived clarity
< 1319835090 248615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin, ah okay
< 1319835092 710147 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a one-line proof
< 1319835103 919967 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what?
< 1319835105 238795 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but decreases actual clarity, because you don't know what's actually being used behind the scenes
< 1319835116 919300 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, agda takes it to the other extreme
< 1319835117 702120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:12:38: <oerjan> goDown x <|> goRight x <|> (goUp >>= goNext)
< 1319835117 774624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:16:23: <oerjan> (goRight x >>= goBottom) <|> goUp x
< 1319835123 144955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which one of those does parents first :P
< 1319835142 286618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former
< 1319835148 567641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx
< 1319835189 248061 :ive!~nn@189.179.245.35 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds
< 1319835223 172624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: i presume it is used when you conclude that there is a prime dividing p1...pn+1
< 1319835231 909611 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep
< 1319835275 160048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty trivial induction compared to the full theorem though, i think
< 1319835356 963045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*full fundamental theorem
< 1319835406 31768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, i think, not math.  there is also a different fundamental theorem of algebra.
< 1319835431 48917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which says that every non-constant complex polynomial has a root)
< 1319835454 37513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there may be others in other fields
< 1319835483 728463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, one of calculus
< 1319835515 206692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote fundamental
< 1319835517 545722 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :567) <Phantom_Hoover> I didn't realise nickel apparently can't be shaped into a screw because of some fundamental feature of dwarven physics. \ 663) <oklopol> but i guess (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2) if n is even, (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x + y)
< 1319835524 370705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 663
< 1319835526 31444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :663) <oklopol> but i guess (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2) if n is even, (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x + y) is as good a fundamental theorem as any
< 1319835531 943829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the one which says essentially that differentiation and integration are opposites)
< 1319835571 351067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem has quite a list :P
< 1319835608 314659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fundamental theorem of poker" :P
< 1319835709 503863 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319835803 602379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sigh, infinite loop :(
< 1319835878 312357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, with one of my suggested goNexts?
< 1319835904 134330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with parents first is likely too, if you can change a node to have a child which itself matches the test
< 1319835913 742521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goNext x = goDown x <|> goRight x <|> (goUp x >>= goNext)
< 1319835913 815078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where goDown (Node tag (x:xs) :> up) = Just (x :> Branch tag [] xs up)
< 1319835913 815280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        goDown _ = Nothing
< 1319835913 815388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test xx = case goNext xx' of Nothing -> xx'; Just go -> test go
< 1319835913 815494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :  where xx' = test' xx
< 1319835914 766124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        test' (Text s :> up) = Text "bork bork bork" :> up
< 1319835916 785146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :        test' x = x
< 1319835918 953892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test infinite loops here on my document
< 1319835935 42052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Text.Groom> test (toCtx (Node (Tag "abc" []) []))
< 1319835935 178224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node (Tag "abc" []) [] :> Top
< 1319835935 250839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Text.Groom> test (toCtx (Node (Tag "abc" []) [Text "x"]))
< 1319835935 251062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hang]
< 1319835937 574069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek.  hm.
< 1319836011 26817 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bug!
< 1319836024 267771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan:
< 1319836026 117308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Text.Groom> goNext (Node (Tag "abc" []) [Text "x"] :> Top)
< 1319836026 189581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just (Text "x" :> Branch (Tag "abc" []) [] [] Top)
< 1319836026 189746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Text.Groom> goNext (Node (Tag "abc" []) [Text "x"] :> Top) >>= goNext
< 1319836026 189853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just (Text "x" :> Branch (Tag "abc" []) [] [] Top)
< 1319836028 583461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug :)
< 1319836040 433041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: will you stop bloody spamming while i'm trying to read :P
< 1319836194 55724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh i see
< 1319836205 783513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes goNext is wrong when going up
< 1319836265 888293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319836282 165145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs a goRight, which may itself fail
< 1319836302 432581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319836312 69409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as simple as (go Up x >>= goRight >>= goNext)? :)
< 1319836316 125379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.
< 1319836320 36549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so :P
< 1319836330 676442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if it helps I already have
< 1319836335 204518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goLeft = moveLeft >=> selectLeft
< 1319836335 276884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goRight = moveRight >=> selectRight
< 1319836338 514147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where
< 1319836342 352777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :selectLeft :: Cursor -> Maybe TreeCtx
< 1319836342 425099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveLeft :: TreeCtx -> Maybe Cursor
< 1319836354 372164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :selectLeft (Branch name (l:ls) rs up) = Just (l :> Branch name ls rs up)
< 1319836354 486788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveLeft (r :> Branch name ls rs up) = Just (Branch name ls (r:rs) up)
< 1319836359 442523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and analoguously for right
< 1319836373 248984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need climbRight x = goRight x <|> (goUp x >>= climbRight)
< 1319836377 566873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1319836380 126367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense
< 1319836384 989813 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, random thought, we have no danes here do we?
< 1319836421 108130 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well obviously not, everyone here is finnish, norwegian, swedish or from hexham)
< 1319836441 33085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then goNext x = goDown x <|> climbRight, maybe
< 1319836467 875014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and then goNext x = goDown x <|> climbRight x, maybe
< 1319836480 953889 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, excuse me there is only one person from Hexham here.
< 1319836483 754736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Text.Groom> goNext (Node (Tag "abc" []) [Text "x"] :> Top)
< 1319836483 910133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just (Text "x" :> Branch (Tag "abc" []) [] [] Top)
< 1319836483 982369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main Text.Groom> goNext (Node (Tag "abc" []) [Text "x"] :> Top) >>= goNext
< 1319836483 982526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing
< 1319836484 934024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good
< 1319836487 285631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to try it on the larger tre
< 1319836488 802585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tree
< 1319836499 379494 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: all of you are the same person!?
< 1319836502 123054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay
< 1319836504 636406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: works :)
< 1319836534 229392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume climbRight will fail if it reaches the top, which is probably what you want
< 1319836550 72814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would correspond to reaching the end of the tree
< 1319836555 367346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1319836643 593970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what I don't like is how the goNext has to be done outside of the "transformation" operation so that the end Nothing case can be handled...
< 1319836655 439273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like the kind of thing you should be able to abstract into a loop only involving the one function
< 1319836726 840512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe forcing goNext is the right thing though :P
< 1319836838 86639 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric
< 1319836928 630672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :<olsner> hmm, random thought, we have no danes here do we? <-- i thought we had one recently, but i may be confused as i don't quite recall who it is
< 1319836959 733496 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :could've been a swede from scania?
< 1319836979 222712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1319836981 770518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hm I wonder how you remove nodes this way
< 1319836985 264328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remove all text nodes but
< 1319836986 345876 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1319836992 35312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test' (Text s :> up) = select{Left,Right} up
< 1319836993 170989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both fail
< 1319837000 128679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. yield Nothing as soon as Text is hit)
< 1319837025 329046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh right a removal tends to leave you on a Cursor in spirit...
< 1319837039 622049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which might not have anything either before or after it, or even both
< 1319837040 953503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh wait, what we need is goNext for /Cursors/, i think
< 1319837049 135796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1319837066 86314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like most operations on TreeCtxs involve stuffing them back into a Cursor then performing an operation on the Cursor which unpacks it into a context again :)
< 1319837071 673747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so moveNext :/
< 1319837076 277839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a tricky one
< 1319837078 776953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well actually that's just your moveRight isn't it
< 1319837088 972058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so
< 1319837089 914550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm
< 1319837092 153173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveRight :: TreeCtx -> Maybe Cursor
< 1319837092 225446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveRight (l :> Branch name ls rs up) = Just (Branch name (l:ls) rs up)
< 1319837092 225561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveRight _ = Nothing
< 1319837094 157075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look ma, no ascension
< 1319837116 212309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so what's needed is
< 1319837119 736926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cursor -> Maybe TreeCtx
< 1319837123 86148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's actually selectNext
< 1319837126 483092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you want an edit to always end on a Cursor, which may be just next to what was handled or even deleted
< 1319837134 53869 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1319837137 500931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :selectRight is downwards movement
< 1319837151 741986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh so I actually want (TreeCtx -> Cursor), not (TreeCtx -> TreeCtx)?
< 1319837156 878528 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and _then_ the main loop can to the goNext :: Cursor -> Maybe TreeCtx
< 1319837172 183895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :misnaming >:E
< 1319837174 961531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's moveNext
< 1319837179 291778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1319837194 357685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goFoo :: TreeCtx -> Maybe TreeCtx -- looks like moveFoo >=> selectFoo at least for left/right
< 1319837199 42271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :selectFoo :: Cursor -> Maybe TreeCtx
< 1319837202 784248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveFoo :: TreeCtx -> Maybe Cursor
< 1319837215 448767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so I need to write moveNext
< 1319837223 254774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think the eqivalent of goDown is just moveRight
< 1319837227 499643 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm
< 1319837228 338223 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :selectRight
< 1319837231 989290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :selectRight (Branch name ls (r:rs) up) = Just (r :> Branch name ls rs up)
< 1319837239 915707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: goNext = moveRight >=> selectNext
< 1319837257 787646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, I'll define selectNext first though
< 1319837274 740451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point there is that the edit itself has enough information to do the moveRight, and it doesn't even need to know whether or not you do parents first
< 1319837292 200218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oops
< 1319837299 997134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ?
< 1319837305 252161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does, darn
< 1319837317 85057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i can't figure out selectNext
< 1319837322 35897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't know what climbRight should be
< 1319837360 660146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think...
< 1319837380 433368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually need a moveNext, which just goes to the next _Cursor_
< 1319837408 53441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveNext :: TreeCtx -> Maybe Cursor -- are you sure you mean this?
< 1319837408 126981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveNext = moveDown <|> climbRight
< 1319837431 8180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but what does climbRight look like here :P
< 1319837442 162128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+x /g
< 1319837481 694784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat
< 1319837491 623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :climbRight x = moveRight <|> (goUp >>= climbRight)
< 1319837494 524446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh
< 1319837500 479056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :climbRight x = moveRight x <|> (goUp x >>= climbRight)
< 1319837524 652515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait hm
< 1319837532 247625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there isn't a moveDown.
< 1319837532 888029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a moveRight cannot actually fail
< 1319837537 715143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can be though
< 1319837543 404359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: um sure it can
< 1319837547 235612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveRight :: TreeCtx -> Maybe Cursor
< 1319837547 307782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveRight (l :> Branch name ls rs up) = Just (Branch name (l:ls) rs up)
< 1319837547 307860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveRight _ = Nothing
< 1319837547 658468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.
< 1319837550 397186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider (l :> Top)
< 1319837564 709803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks oerjan has completely muddled up the naming scheme.
< 1319837585 81407 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.  but in that case yo don't need to try anything further.
< 1319837607 367717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so climbRight = moveRight, simply
< 1319837610 894554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :move is like pressing the right arrow button while text is selected, going from it to a /cursor/; select is shift-arrow key in one direction from a cursor, producing a selection (TreeCttx)
< 1319837613 822371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, huh
< 1319837621 918164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait hm
< 1319837624 900153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_<
< 1319837640 739043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top is actually tricky
< 1319837679 86275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it has a non-Tag as its element
< 1319837706 400169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that can never happen in reality :)
< 1319837707 842368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then there doesn't actually _exist_ a Cursor for inserting it
< 1319837709 439604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that reassures you
< 1319837714 591809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is _always_ a root tag
< 1319837722 258371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would express this in the types if I could think of a non-ugly way to do it
< 1319837749 627203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok in that case moveRight cannot fail for our use case
< 1319837766 454879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the edit part
< 1319837794 448660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveNext = moveDown <|> moveRight
< 1319837818 911140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there isn't a down direction, you're not at the root tag, so the moveRight must succeed
< 1319837832 325497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise that moveNext can fail?
< 1319837836 653025 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. being at the root tag
< 1319837837 530771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ko
< 1319837853 100236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok
< 1319837853 232454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you never apply it to the root tag when parents are done first
< 1319837862 335548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um
< 1319837863 884799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is moveDown
< 1319837880 466052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<oerjan> but you never apply it to the root tag when parents are done first
< 1319837884 940356 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you apply it to the root tag first thing...
< 1319837942 158502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if I come back tomorrow will you have the answers :P
< 1319838128 351697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :moveDown (Node tag children :> up) = Just (Branch tag [] children up)
< 1319838186 962654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think.
< 1319838231 235978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh hm moveNext cannot fail at the root tag, because it has children.
< 1319838242 240138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm gonna sleep on this :P
< 1319838243 401016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry
< 1319838421 975124 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
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< 1319842615 535586 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-79-204.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!
< 1319842626 476962 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1319842637 311413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good evening
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< 1319843841 318219 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1319844619 932345 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep
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