00:01:11 Oh, that's right, 00:01:14 I don't go to Kindle 00:01:35 Kindle is reserved for when I'm, you know, on a Kindle 00:04:37 Ngevd, try /nick Taneb|Hovercraft or whatever you want 00:04:51 Nah 00:04:53 Ngevd, you can renick once you ghosted the dead connection, or once it timed out 00:04:59 It's Ngevd time now 00:05:05 Ngevd, come on, you could just copy what I wrote 00:05:45 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to TheAstoundingVan. 00:05:51 the astounding van 00:05:56 no no, it is Ngevd time 00:06:01 I didn't realise nicks had a maximum length 00:06:12 TheAstoundingVan, what was it supposed to be? 00:06:19 anyway of course there is a max length 00:06:22 It should continue TheAstoundingVanDoorn 00:06:26 I can't imagine TheAstoundingVan not being the intention 00:06:27 it is right there in the irc protocol iirc 00:06:33 Probably 00:06:46 indeed your current nick is quite nice 00:06:55 except it moved the nick column out quite a bit 00:06:58 that is annoying 00:07:05 (I have xchat style nick column) 00:07:21 I have the Windows port of XChat 00:07:28 I do not remember why I am using Windows 00:07:31 (because, frankly it is a lot easier to read irc that way IMO) 00:07:47 Oh, that thing on the left 00:07:54 I was thinking of the one on the right 00:08:24 TheAstoundingVan, I'm on mixed atm. Lets see, this is on ubuntu, a freebsd box is running on the other side of the room, and my desktop is on windows 7 atm waiting for bloody stupid steam to decide it doesn't need to install .NET for the fourth time. 00:08:46 I have but one computer 00:08:53 ah 00:09:08 Well, one computer that I could feasibly chat on IRC with that is definitely in my possession 00:09:32 I see 00:09:46 My Kindle actually belongs to my dad 00:09:58 And the family computer is... the family computer 00:10:08 My brother's laptop is my brother's 00:10:25 I see 00:10:28 The 98SE computer doesn't have an internet connection 00:10:35 the what.... 00:10:38 The Wii is shared between me and my brother 00:10:39 you got to be kidding 00:10:42 Windows 98SE 00:10:47 .... 00:10:47 what 00:11:14 Seriously 00:11:21 It's not turned on because it is rather loud 00:11:27 I play Lego Loco on it mainly 00:11:29 TheAstoundingVan: Upgrade it to 95. 00:12:39 I don't think 95 can run Lego Loco 00:12:56 It's also got Rollercoaster Tycoon 00:13:34 heh 00:14:45 god 00:14:49 why don't i have rollercoaster tycoon 00:14:51 does it work in wine 00:15:05 looks like "sort of" 00:15:07 I don't know 00:15:42 Do you have Lego Loco? 00:16:27 elliott, it is old enough to run okay in qemu I think... 00:16:33 prolly 00:16:35 so even if it doesn't work in wine 00:16:36 i could just use virtualbox 00:16:50 It was written almost entirely in assembly 00:16:54 elliott, that too 00:20:02 -frandom-seed=string 00:20:02 This option provides a seed that GCC uses when it would otherwise 00:20:02 use random numbers. It is used to generate certain symbol names 00:20:02 that have to be different in every compiled file. 00:20:03 Wait, seriously? 00:20:10 gcc relies on random numbers not repeating over different runs? 00:20:13 whoo boy 00:20:41 That should cause some problems 00:20:53 Unless the RNG is awful 00:21:10 Eh? 00:21:23 It could be "seed + 1" 00:21:47 Also, lego Loco doesn't work on Wine 00:21:51 I sad 00:21:57 I very sobber 00:23:00 NEITHER DOES LEGO FOOTBALL MANIA 00:23:42 How am I going to get a simultaneous Lego, sport, and Linux fix now! 00:24:25 NETHER DOES LEGO ALPHA TEAM :'( 00:24:38 All my Lego games, worthless! 00:24:57 I'll have to play with actual Lego now! 00:25:31 wait. 00:25:37 TheAstoundingVan: other people played lego alpha team? 00:25:53 just... how 00:25:54 are you me 00:25:58 I wasn't much good at it 00:26:03 -!- ive has joined. 00:26:15 ... 00:26:16 yeah ditto 00:26:27 -!- TheAstoundingVan has changed nick to ettioll. 00:26:38 are you me <-- i thought we had established that already. 00:26:48 hi ettioll 00:26:52 nice name actually 00:26:54 hi elliott 00:27:10 hi 00:27:16 hi 00:28:40 hi 00:28:49 hi 00:29:10 hi 00:29:20 shut up, monqy 00:29:29 im betrayd 00:30:35 no monqy 00:30:35 un 00:30:36 shutup 00:30:38 -!- elliott has changed nick to moqny. 00:30:40 hi 00:30:44 hi 00:30:51 moqny, is "Elliott" an old family name for you? 00:30:59 yes that's why it's my first name 00:31:02 also, do you speak in a fake London accent? 00:31:05 family names go first 00:31:27 moqny, on Iceland they do yes 00:31:31 not in the rest of the world 00:31:46 iceland doesnt have family names 00:31:53 My great-great-great grandmother was called Elliott 00:32:02 so no Vorpal UR WRONGE, 00:32:42 -!- ettioll has changed nick to noqmy. 00:32:46 hi 00:32:46 -!- ive has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:32:49 hi 00:33:10 monqy, move to Hexham and make this even more confusing 00:33:20 also, get older before Thursday 00:33:27 because 00:33:34 I'm a minute older than I was a minute ago 00:33:40 NOT GOOD ENOUGH 00:33:43 hi 00:33:46 hi 00:33:51 hi 00:33:53 hi 00:33:56 hi 00:33:58 hi 00:34:17 hi 00:34:23 hi 00:34:31 hi 00:34:39 hi 00:34:47 hi 00:34:51 hi 00:35:33 hi 00:35:37 hi 00:35:41 hi 00:35:50 hi 00:35:57 hi 00:36:00 hi 00:36:11 hi 00:36:12 hi 00:36:16 hi 00:36:22 hi 00:36:25 -!- oerjan has changed nick to nomqy. 00:36:27 hi 00:36:28 hi 00:36:31 hi 00:36:31 hi 00:36:34 hi 00:36:38 hi 00:36:41 hi 00:36:44 hi 00:36:47 hi 00:36:48 hi 00:36:55 SIX PIG 00:37:00 NOOOOOOOO 00:37:04 crys 00:37:11 sobber... 00:37:11 >:D 00:37:24 you FIEND 00:39:32 HHHHIIIIIIII>>??;/, . .. ../ / 00:39:50 you are now Pietbot's arch enemy, pikhq_ 00:39:56 I hope you are happy 00:40:10 Happy happy joy joy 00:40:16 cry 00:40:43 ;_; ;_; 00:40:48 ;___; 00:40:55 they merged 00:40:59 ;__; 00:41:02 darn 00:41:07 i ruined 00:41:08 sorey 00:41:19 ;_; ;__; ;___; ;_____; 00:41:47 let's just always be monqy 00:42:24 \o/ \m/ \m/ \o/ \o/ 00:42:40 argh 00:43:04 nomqy's painful adjustment to a name shorter than myndzi\ 00:44:15 monqy: do you have a constraint solver free 00:44:38 don't be silly, how can it be constrained and free at the same time 00:45:16 all my constraint solver costs big money 00:46:08 monqy: I have biggest money 00:46:58 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:47:29 moqny, I have created more esolangs than you 00:47:34 How did this happen 00:47:45 Did this happen 00:47:50 i have created more than is on my wiki page, i believe 00:48:00 Okay 00:49:30 I have not designed many esolangs 00:50:13 That's interesting 00:50:31 i have not designed many esolangs shame 00:50:32 help 00:51:28 hm, that might be a bit hard to parse 00:51:34 properly, at least 00:52:06 Luigi is a language which only I believe to be Turing-complete 00:52:38 i shall now proceed to design ~ 40310 esolangs at once 00:52:43 have you proven this 00:52:47 these 00:52:51 > permutations "+-<>[].," 00:52:51 its turing completeness 00:52:52 ["+-<>[].,","-+<>[].,","<-+>[].,","-<+>[].,","<+->[].,","+<->[].,","><-+[].... 00:52:52 and 00:52:59 monqy, twice 00:53:03 people other than you not believing in its turing completenes 00:53:05 Apparently neither of them count 00:53:05 have you proven that 00:53:08 oh no 00:53:15 Neither of the other people count 00:53:18 did you bungle the proofs or is everyone just a jerk 00:53:28 he bungled the proofs 00:53:29 I bungled the proofs 00:53:40 bungle, a good word 00:53:41 I translated non-turing complete turing machines 00:53:50 ahh 00:54:03 I can translate arbitrary turing machines to Luigi, but can't be bothered with long ones 00:54:16 With lots of states 00:54:27 automation reasons 00:54:47 if you can write a sound algorithm to perform the reduction, who needs manual translation? 00:54:54 If someone finds or creates a notation for expressing Turing-Machines, I will do so 00:55:07 that's why i post general translators instead 00:55:25 I did that for Nandypants and Noryshorts 00:55:31 Which were my first published esolangs 00:55:39 lambda calculus (laughs) 00:55:43 sk calculus (laughs) 00:55:46 brainfuck (laughs) 00:55:49 I can translate arbitrary turing machines to Luigi, but can't be bothered with long ones 00:55:58 did you actually prove every tm can be translated though 00:56:07 No, but I am able to translate any one 00:56:15 good proof 00:56:17 I just haven't bothered proving it 00:56:57 proof by i hope taneb doesn't die 00:58:08 It's simple really 00:59:13 But annoyingly hard to describe 00:59:24 oh? 00:59:53 For each cell, you put an "N" followed by a number representing its colour 01:00:24 Except for the one with the poor sod in the box, in which you put a letter representing the state of the poor sod in a box instead of the "N" 01:01:06 Then you put an expand left marker at the left end of the tape and an expand right marker at the right end of the tape 01:01:35 These can be any characters that aren't a semicolon or used to represent a pen state or a cell colour 01:01:44 That is the initial tape 01:02:30 Then you put ";L;LN0;R;N0R;", assuming L and R are the expand markers 01:02:48 And 0 is the default colour 01:03:05 Now comes the tedious bit 01:03:19 For each rule, first see if it moves left or right 01:04:41 hi 01:04:45 hi 01:07:31 hi 01:08:44 -!- noqmy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:08:59 bye 01:09:27 bye 01:10:47 -!- ive has joined. 01:17:24 it sucks being a hydrogen cat 01:41:23 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:41:34 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:52:13 I figured out how to use Astrolog to compute the date of Chinese New Year. 01:54:30 It is simple to do by using the Ephemeris chart and restricting everything except the Sun and Moon. 01:54:50 It is most likely to occur in January or February. 01:55:44 So that is the date you would look firts. 01:55:47 s/firts/first/ 01:56:12 The longitude for Chinese would be 120:00E 02:04:51 Makes sense that that'd work. 02:05:13 I mean, Chinese holidays are on their old, lunar calendar. 02:07:53 Yes; it is the new moon before the sun reaches 330 degrees (also called Pisces). On the Ephemeris calendar you can see the red line for Sun and blue line for Moon (by default there are many more, but you can turn off whatever you want to omit). When the red and blue line cross is the new moon. You can pause animation and use !@#$%^&*( and -+ to advance the time. And then look the red line is to the left of the 330 degrees point, because it will 02:08:59 ... because it will 02:09:06 -!- nomqy has changed nick to oerjan. 02:09:35 ... because it will then reach that point in a few days or a month or so. 02:10:44 (Important Note: This "Pisces" has nothing to do with the constellation of the same name; in this context, "Pisces" is just another name for 330 degrees. I prefer to work directly in degrees.) 02:48:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blissiness 02:48:11 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 02:48:11 Blissiness is created with bliss and busy with makes blissiness. It is now the mark into internet for the websitecreator, former librarian:) . 02:48:11 Blissiness rooted in bliss meaning not excited not the other side of excited, just in the neutral midst. Blissiness rooted in being busy and disappearing in, there is no doer and object, just a verb like there is only "singing", 'doing', 'creating' and so on '...... ing'. A realized way being without ego, just clear consciousness itsself, not the content of it thats something else. A realized one has no ego left and abide as pure consciousness. Its 02:48:12 hard to tell, explain, just one knows as experience or not. The easiest way to explain is that one in the most difficult situations experience to be without ego just listening as pure consciousness with no interferention of mind itsself: sure this is not easy. Many realized let see that it happen in the world today. 02:48:17 monqy: recent changes = best??? 02:50:10 hi 02:50:20 yes best 03:06:42 that didn't last long :P 03:08:00 apparently i was just 1 minute too late 03:08:02 rest in peace 03:08:16 (cur | prev) 02:47, 31 October 2011‎ Skater (talk | contribs)‎ (931 bytes) (Requesting speedy deletion (CSD A1). (TW)) (undo) 03:08:16 (cur | prev) 02:46, 31 October 2011‎ Blissiness (talk | contribs)‎ (914 bytes) (Explanation and meaning of 'blissiness' as mark on the internet.) (Tag: possible autobiography or conflict of interest) 03:08:17 blissiness 2:46--3:05 03:57:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:01:25 Can you file for univorce if you are unmarried and don't like yourself anymore? 04:03:32 How common are golf balls with plutonium? 04:03:59 well the di- in divorce apparently comes from a preposition meaning apart, not two, so i think it would be a portmanteau 04:04:20 OK. 04:05:30 i suspect they are very rare. 04:05:46 why would you want an extremely heavy golf ball, anyhow. 04:05:55 I don't know. 04:06:08 I just read these things somewhere. 04:06:20 `addquote Can you file for univorce if you are unmarried and don't like yourself anymore? 04:06:23 701) Can you file for univorce if you are unmarried and don't like yourself anymore? 04:08:32 zzo38: I think that's called suicide. 04:09:33 Yes, I suppose so. But someone was trying to write something else, probably to make a joke 04:12:06 now i'm reminded of that disembodied spirit in H2G2 04:12:16 zzo38: someone else? 04:12:24 which apparently had done _just_ that 04:23:11 i loved that guy 04:33:04 -!- ive has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:40:57 oerjan: Yes it was Jyte claims I was looking at, I think. 04:42:34 What if you played Napoleon with aces low? I think that would affect the game a lot; while most games are unaffected by making aces low (as long as it is decided before the cards are dealt, that is). 04:43:05 whatis napoleon 04:43:31 A card game for five players. 04:44:15 some games have aces both high and low 04:45:02 Yes, some do. 04:45:36 But in trick taking games, aces are usually high only, and changing the rules such that aces are low won't affect anything. 04:48:01 yes, if only the order of ranks matters, then it's just a simple permutation 04:50:40 But Napoleon has some unusual rules, such as: the ace of spades beats everything, if five cards of the same suit are played then the two wins (if there is a two), you earn a point for a TJQKA of each suit (and if you collect all 20 without bidding 20, you lose due to the Siberian rule), etc 04:53:05 Actually, it is your team's cards collcted that count; the team is selected by a card the declarer names, whoever holds that card is the declarer's partner, but nobody else knows who it is until the named card is played (it is possible for the declarer to name a card he holds, playing alone, and earning more points at the end) 04:59:53 Have you ever played these kind of card game? 05:01:13 ive heard of a similar thing 05:16:11 If I make the program based on Swiss Ephemeris (not soon, though; probably later) what is it should be called???????????????????????????????? 05:16:16 q 05:21:10 i agree with misspelled monqy 05:21:19 q is an excellent name 05:21:56 Just q by itself? 05:22:30 yes 05:22:46 i dont think the name has been taken 05:23:14 I still disagree however 05:24:38 you asked for suggestions. you arent obligated to take them 05:24:47 OK 05:51:52 You try write such a program. 05:56:08 no 05:56:41 OK 05:58:37 hmm I could go to bed 06:00:57 Is string theory: science, philosophy, or mathematics? 06:03:21 it's string theory 06:03:30 monqy: should i change my nick back 06:03:39 -!- Vorpal has joined. 06:03:42 im opinionless 06:04:31 I say yes but it is not up to me 06:14:55 monqy: if you're gonna be opinionless at least write pcsm for me sheesh 06:15:20 Vorpal: tup update btw, dunno if you're subscribed to tup-users 06:15:47 moqny, no I didn't. Doesn't affect the arch package, it is a -git package. 06:16:05 So unless git repo url or build/install steps change it doesn't really need changing 06:16:08 no I "didn't"? anyway I know that, I was just saying you should reinstall it 06:16:09 Another fictitious object I want to include is the "ecclesiastical moon". 06:16:27 moqny, "no I didn't subscribe to that list" 06:16:29 moqny: whats pcsm :( 06:16:55 If that is possible. 06:17:02 monqy: purely crystalline sex monsters (it is actually packaconfigurservice manager) 06:17:30 bbl 06:19:07 zzo38: is that what they use to calculate easter? 06:20:35 oerjan: Yes. 06:21:25 the ecclesiastical moon is real it's just really black so you can't see it 06:21:30 (it's dirty because nobody cares about it) 06:21:32 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:21:39 Swiss Ephemeris allows defining fictitious objects in external files. By default it includes the Uranians although you can add stuff. 06:22:51 wow 06:23:29 You can add planets to the solar system as well as moons to the Earth. 06:24:01 moqny: sure they care, how would they otherwise know when to collect easter eggs? 06:24:10 hi coppro 06:24:19 oerjan: no they dont lov ie t 06:24:21 ;___; 06:35:04 -!- Ngevd has joined. 06:35:44 -!- moqny has changed nick to elliott. 06:35:52 Ngevd there is absolutely no justification for anyone to be up at this time ever at all. 06:35:55 On that note, 06:35:57 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:36:08 I couldn't sleep 06:36:13 I feel awful 06:52:07 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:01:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:09:54 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:12:03 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:12:17 "a country that resembles the United Kingdom, identifiable from the grey skies and mandatory uniforms." 07:12:17 What have we become. 07:17:06 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:18:55 Taneb: citation needed. 07:22:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:33:29 -!- Ngevd has joined. 07:35:29 I think, if we actually end up in a dystopia, it will not be Orwellian 07:35:36 Nor will it be Huxleyis 07:35:37 t 07:38:46 It will be like that book I read once 07:38:58 It was called... Framed? Traces? something like that... 07:46:11 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:47:18 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 07:47:18 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host). 07:47:18 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 08:11:19 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:19:40 -!- Ngevd has joined. 08:20:28 -!- jix has joined. 08:25:23 apparently my typing speed is 95 wpm 08:25:42 no wonder I can actually follow along writing notes in LaTeX 08:25:54 (this is a bitch in linear algebra) 08:26:16 Learn shorthand typing 08:26:20 Save the world 08:29:40 Ngevd: lol 08:35:19 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds). 08:59:24 i went and bothered to actually look up how wpm is defined the other day 08:59:29 turns out i was calculating it wrong by removing spaces 08:59:31 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi. 08:59:37 i actually type about 150 in bursts on irc ;) 09:01:41 I'm not entirely surprised, I can certainly get much higher in bursts when I'm typing out my own thoughts than when I'm typing from text I'm reading as I go which is the standard testing method 09:01:59 95 is not much for english 09:02:04 it's not little either 09:02:08 but it's not much 09:02:37 i prolly have much less 09:02:38 like 4 09:02:42 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 09:02:46 maybe i'll try 09:02:48 oklopol: what? 95 is plenty 09:02:53 like, professional plenty 09:04:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:05:23 huh 09:05:50 perhaps i just know too many crazy people 09:06:05 it seems it's like the top 0% 09:06:11 95 09:07:06 -!- Ngevd has joined. 09:07:53 *Still* half-term, Ngevd? 09:07:53 Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 09:08:21 Teacher training day 09:09:38 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:09:42 soon they'll be able to fetch and roll around 09:09:54 it seems the average is 36 09:15:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:15:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:15:47 oerjan! you're norwegian! 09:15:52 oklopol: you're finnish! 09:16:06 totta 09:16:11 i need judgements :D 09:16:19 I'm neither Norwegian nor Finnish 09:16:55 I don't fit in your quaint little categories 09:17:02 oerjan: can i get judgments? 09:17:30 *sigh*, ok then 09:17:37 just a few! 09:17:42 first can you translate John has spoken with the boys, and Susan has spoken with the girls 09:18:06 John har snakket med guttene, og Susan har snakket med jentene 09:19:10 ahhhh no determiner! 09:19:13 seems you're still doing the same thing 09:19:15 ok how about 09:19:30 John has spoken with every boy and Susan has spoken with every girl 09:19:37 oklopol: same stuff, but different specifics :p 09:19:53 * oklopol predicts exact same word order 09:19:56 John har snakket med hver gutt og Susan har snakket med hver jente 09:20:12 did not expect them to align almost perfectly 09:20:21 augur: you can force a determiner on definite nouns by adding an adjective, btw. 09:20:25 Ionus pueroris dixit, et Susanna puellis 09:20:39 oerjan: i see 09:20:40 interesting 09:20:58 Ionus omnis pueroris dixit, et Susanna omnis puellis 09:21:16 s/pueroris/pueris/ 09:21:23 oerjan: good or bad: John har snakket med hver gutt og Susan har med hver jente 09:21:36 augur: that was the old stuff 09:21:39 heh i expected precisely that one from you :P 09:21:41 oklopol: ey? 09:21:44 oerjan: :) 09:21:47 somewhat bad 09:21:55 augur: basically exactly what oerjan just said 09:22:01 "har med" is an idiom meaning something else, too 09:22:08 ok and without "har"? 09:22:12 in the right side 09:22:16 then it's ok 09:22:26 ok, so you speak like i need to you 09:22:32 ok lets get to the real questions :) 09:22:43 (yay calibration) 09:23:02 John har snakket med hver gutt og Susan hver jente 09:23:32 ok, mostly 09:23:41 to mean the same as "John har snakket med hver gutt og Susan har snakket med hver jente" ? 09:23:43 i'm just gonna watch this and leave just before i'm needed (unless one was enough) 09:23:49 yes 09:23:54 ok :) 09:24:20 John har snakket med hver gutt og Susan med jente 09:24:25 no. 09:25:19 last one 09:25:24 John har snakket med hver gutt og Susan jente 09:25:37 still awful 09:25:41 thank you sir! 09:25:51 yw 09:25:53 thank you for being a perfect speaker of norwegian :D 09:26:23 oklopol: you willing? :x 09:26:55 you should probably talk to Deewiant or fizzie, i tend to find everything correct 09:26:59 That reminds me of something I said once, augur 09:27:06 "I need someone who's willing." 09:27:06 oklopol: :P 09:27:12 i think fizzie was my last informant anyway 09:27:21 but i think you gave me good judgments too, oklopol! 09:27:52 :o 09:27:54 cool stuff 09:27:58 oklopol thinks äkkyllä sitä toikolassa sounds correct 09:27:59 but the real reason i have to go is 09:28:01 i have to go 09:28:09 oklopol: aww ok 09:28:16 * augur rapes oklopol farewell 09:28:23 augur: Äkky is not a word i know 09:28:49 toikola is obviously a place, that means to hit someone with an äkky in toivola 09:28:59 yay 09:29:10 erm oerjan 09:29:12 probably painful 09:31:47 the interesting part is where the allative form of äkky is äkkyllä, it would usually be äkyllä 09:33:01 i have a hunch they do that in some dialect here 09:33:12 i haven't quite got those consonant modifications pat down yet. 09:33:14 i can't really speak in any dialect 09:33:55 except for using two words that are rare outside turku which i haven't been able to get rid of 09:34:05 although i actually had this sort of hunch the kk was wrong there 09:34:23 oerjan: wanna give my paper draft a read through, up to but not including section 3? :D 09:34:31 no. 09:34:34 :( 09:34:48 :) 09:34:49 bye 09:35:00 bye! 09:37:58 bye 09:42:55 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:52:44 -!- Ngevd has joined. 09:54:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:11:53 If it is possible to write a quine in Brook, Brook is more computationally powerful than a linear-bounded automaton 10:12:03 ^^^ Taneb's conjecture 10:13:24 i don't know if the conclusion is true, but i don't think that's a sound argument... 10:20:20 It is clear that the computational power of Brook is at least that of a Linear Bounded Automaton 10:20:44 As indeed it is, if one discounts the commands 'c' and 'C' 10:27:36 However, with the commands 'c' and 'C', if a quine is possible an infinite loop is possible 10:28:17 Not the greatest of arguments, I'll admit 10:33:19 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:33:26 sounds better 10:36:17 I just put my surname into Wolfram Alpha, because I'm bored 10:36:42 Wolfram Alpha interpreted it as two words 10:36:48 Which are both place names 10:38:02 I got a better result than my friend's surname 10:38:07 Which redirects to "Horse" 10:41:01 boringly enough, WA interprets my surname as a surname :P 10:41:09 :P 10:41:57 and claims 1 in 28409 americans have it 10:42:32 or 9509 people 10:46:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game). 10:47:21 -!- Vorpal has joined. 10:47:29 The third most common first name for my surname is apparently Jan 10:47:34 Fourth is Heinz 10:47:40 Fifth is Theodore 10:50:10 W|A redirects my surname into a location; Kalajoki, North Ostrobothnia, population 9278. 10:50:22 "Notable people born in Kalajoki: (none known)" 10:50:25 The most useful box. 10:50:39 fizzie: are your ancestors from there? 10:50:44 No. 10:51:02 My ancestors are from a town near Utrecht, the Netherlands 10:51:04 They're from pretty much the opposite side of the country. 10:51:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:54:15 "Other tips for using Wolfram|Alpha: You can only get answers about objective facts. Try "highest mountain", not "most beautiful painting". 10:54:35 "most beautiful painting" ends up giving a comparison table between to periodical publications, Beautiful and Painting. 10:55:00 "Only what is known is known to Wolfram|Alpha 10:55:01 Ask "how many men in Mauritania", not "how many monsters in Loch Ness"" 10:55:16 fizzie, surely the most beautiful painting is one of Stephen Wolfram. 10:55:55 So I ask the latter. "Input interpretation: How many Loch Ness monsters are there?" "Result: 0 (For the most part, the scientific community considers evidence of the existence of such creatures to be a combination of misidentification and deliberate hoaxes.)" 10:58:51 You can type in "edge detect Abraham Lincoln image with radius 7" into W|A, and it will do input interpretation: EdgeDetect[ [Abraham Lincoln | Image], 7 (radius) ] and give the resulting image. 11:00:44 OTOH, if you ask it to "edge detect Abraham Lincoln" and don't mention the image, it will compare Abraham Lincoln and Edge, the wrestler. 11:01:18 Not Edge, the U2 member? 11:01:20 Dissapointing 11:02:11 indeed. 11:02:40 fizzie, does it tell you who would win in a fight? 11:02:59 i assume you were thinking of http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/2049.html 11:03:04 Ngevd: If you ask it to "edge detect the edge image", it will edge-detect an image of the U2 guitarist. 11:03:27 oerjan, yes I was 11:04:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:06:32 I asked it about "who would win in a fight" in general, but it just produced a dictionary-ish definition for the word "fight". 11:07:08 Aww, now I've got Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny 11:14:45 -!- Jafet has left. 11:17:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 11:17:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:41:44 so how do I set myself as a postgres user? 11:43:07 nevermind I think I've got it. 11:45:53 uh what 11:46:01 I ran sudo -u postgres createdb db 11:46:11 could not change directory to "/home/adam/scripts/repos/aioseo/aiofront" 11:46:26 there's no db file, and now I try to run it again it says the db already exists. 11:58:06 nevermind I think I got it. 12:05:13 1/win 20 12:10:58 ? 12:22:56 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 12:26:31 -!- glogbackup has joined. 12:26:37 -!- glogbackup has left. 13:25:26 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:28:30 -!- Ngevd has joined. 13:28:32 Hello! 13:29:27 Yello(w). 13:37:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:38:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:40:30 I now have Banksy as my wallpaper 13:40:52 To be precise, a work by Banksy 14:08:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:09:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:11:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:24:17 -!- ais523_ has joined. 14:28:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:28:57 I think the protests in London are bring down the corrupt capalist church 14:32:08 yaeh 14:33:13 corrupt protestant brainwashing corporations, man. 14:33:52 Bring down this theocratic tyranny 14:34:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:39:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:40:34 Oh dear 14:43:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:43:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:44:28 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:01:00 "Singing one song to the tune of another" does not seem to be a Wikipedia article 15:02:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:02:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 15:06:42 -!- derdon has joined. 15:11:56 I regret introducing my friend to the Crazy World of Arthur Brown 15:13:36 -!- ive has joined. 15:42:18 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:56:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:58:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:02:02 -!- monqy has joined. 16:32:42 `quote 16:32:43 hello 16:32:45 do you read 16:32:48 226) My quotes are boring 16:32:48 me 16:33:03 Oh damn, I was counting on the connection having dropped. 16:33:06 haha 16:34:05 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:47:32 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 16:58:43 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 17:21:50 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:24:05 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 17:32:35 Phantom_Hoover, he 17:32:38 heh* 17:32:40 -!- aptennap has joined. 17:34:05 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: http://haskell.org). 17:37:35 -!- aptennap has quit (Client Quit). 17:38:59 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 17:40:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:40:21 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:48:13 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:55:31 -!- sllide has joined. 17:57:08 -!- tiffany has joined. 17:57:56 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 18:05:30 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:06:14 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:24:39 -!- augur has joined. 18:25:57 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Read error: No route to host). 18:26:45 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:30:08 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: http://haskell.org). 18:33:00 -!- elliott has joined. 18:35:27 happy australian mailman mailing list reminders day 18:44:05 08:25:23: apparently my typing speed is 95 wpm 18:44:08 coppro: god you're slow 18:44:39 09:02:48: oklopol: what? 95 is plenty 18:44:39 09:02:53: like, professional plenty 18:44:39 professional slow 18:45:02 `addquote I'm neither Norwegian nor Finnish I don't fit in your quaint little categories 18:45:05 702) I'm neither Norwegian nor Finnish I don't fit in your quaint little categories 18:46:38 fizzie: SYN 18:47:06 elliott, professional slow typist? 18:47:24 Yes. 18:50:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:51:03 -!- Ngevd has joined. 18:51:31 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 18:55:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:56:45 ais523\unfoog: oh dear 18:56:57 /dev/null/nethack time! 18:57:02 -!- elliott has changed nick to elliott\unfoog. 18:57:04 * elliott\unfoog imposter 18:57:10 wait, ais523\unfoog is an op now 18:57:11 fuck 18:57:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_czxTedXpc 18:57:37 255 million... how... what... 18:57:41 also, /dev/null/nethack makes less than zero sense, as a name 18:57:50 elliott\unfoog: indeed, I didn't name it 18:57:55 Phantom_Hoover: It's thigh massage video! 19:10:40 elliott\unfoog, the worldwide interest in thigh massage is not that high! 19:10:52 Phantom_Hoover: Wow, I've been doing it all wrong. 19:10:56 Life, that is. 19:10:59 I was completely unaware. 19:11:09 Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, it's not just thigh massage. 19:11:12 It's thigh massage VIDEO. 19:12:39 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:19:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:24:45 plenty of slow 19:24:52 in his typing 19:25:55 -!- augur has joined. 19:28:07 Does anyone know a decent x86 emulator for people without fancy virtualising CPUs that doesn't taint your kernel with TAINT_CRAP like VirtualBox does 19:28:13 (qemu does not count as decent for reasons of being so fucking slow) 19:29:40 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:30:41 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:31:01 Well, VMware only does tainting from being proprietary. 19:31:05 -!- Ngevd has joined. 19:31:53 pikhq: I... suppose that could work :P 19:32:03 pikhq: Is VMware actually decent these days 19:32:32 Oh, the package is out of date, so I won't bother :P 19:33:03 pikhq: OH WELL, VirtualBox it is. 19:33:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:33:42 pikhq: Have I mentioned that Kitten is probably going to happen soonish. 19:35:09 Sighh, gpasswd -G vboxusers elliott; modprobe vboxdrv vboxnetflt. 19:36:57 elliott\unfoog: wow that nick is annoying given you aren't in unfoog 19:37:08 ais523\unfoog: oh dear 19:37:08 /dev/null/nethack time! 19:37:08 * You are now known as elliott\unfoog 19:37:08 * elliott\unfoog imposter 19:37:08 wait, ais523\unfoog is an op now 19:37:09 fuck 19:37:30 I have determined that this nick has some kind of special power which stops me from being kicked :P 19:37:30 surely having a misleading nick isn't a channel offence, but a server offence? 19:37:46 Ooh, maybe I can get K-lined over it?? :P 19:38:38 I've just sent a verbal patch for a /dev/null bug; seems krystal had added field to a structure /after/ the struct-hack field 19:38:51 which is one of the weirder mistakes to make in C that I've seen 19:39:10 -!- ive has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:39:59 ais523\unfoog: struct-hack field? 19:40:14 elliott\unfoog: you know the struct-hack, right? 19:40:26 you put a length-0/length-1/length-MAXINT/length-nullstring array at the end of a struct 19:40:26 nope :) well I vaguely recall /something/ 19:40:30 oh, right 19:40:31 then allocate it to the size you actually want 19:40:44 adding fields after that one is obviously not going to work very well 19:40:45 (length-nullstring is C99 and isn't a hack) 19:40:48 indeed 19:40:48 (it's officially supported) 19:40:55 but "the struct hack" is the name for the technique 19:41:01 C99's length-nullstring is just legalizing it 19:41:25 length-0 is GNU; length-MAXINT I don't believe anyone actually uses but it's been suggested that it fits the letter of the standard better than length-1 19:41:26 well, I disagree :P but ok 19:41:37 if you do 19:41:43 int main(){int foo[MAXINT];} 19:41:47 it actually internal-errors gcc 19:43:10 really? 19:43:13 that's hilarious 19:43:18 also, it's INT_MAX 19:43:42 you said MAXINT :P 19:43:49 but yeah, gcc does not like too-big arrays on the stack. 19:44:02 it's called MAXINT except in C 19:45:03 /dev/stdin: In function ‘main’: 19:45:05 /dev/stdin:2: error: size of array ‘foo’ is too large 19:45:06 lies 19:46:07 ais523\unfoog: it did a couple of years ago, anyway 19:46:12 prseumably somebody noticed 19:46:32 yep, the error message looks a lot like they're specifically checking for implausibly large arrays 19:48:06 $ echo 'int main(){int foo[1234567890123456789];}' | gcc -x c /dev/stdin && ./a.out # compiles and runs 19:48:54 Deewiant: Nice 19:49:00 Deewiant: That ... probably overflows? 19:49:23 Note to self: Undo all this VirtualBox shit and remove Qt once you're done with it. 19:49:24 $ echo 'int main(){int foo[12345678901234567890];}' | gcc -x c /dev/stdin 19:49:24 /dev/stdin: In function ‘main’: 19:49:24 /dev/stdin:1:20: warning: integer constant is so large that it is unsigned [enabled by default] 19:49:27 /dev/stdin:1:1: warning: this decimal constant is unsigned only in ISO C90 [enabled by default] 19:49:31 /dev/stdin:1:16: error: size of array ‘foo’ is too large 19:50:07 "[enabled by default]"? 19:50:18 is there some sort of indication of warnings that appear even without -Wall nowadays? 19:50:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:50:25 Apparently! 19:50:28 ais523\unfoog: it tells you what flag enables what warning nowadays 19:50:31 so you can disable them 19:51:22 I wish you didn't have to login-cycle to get new groups 19:53:54 -!- elliott\unfoog has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:54:09 -!- elliott has joined. 19:59:33 Hmm, annoying that syslinux doesn't do jsf. 19:59:35 jfs. 20:03:22 Wow, lilo is actually maintained now. 20:05:45 that's okay 20:10:26 oklopol: but is it.... 20:11:01 okay? that's what i said 20:11:27 oho,e 20:11:30 are you mistaking me for someone who occasionally says something that makes sense or what is this all about 20:11:38 Vorpal: You're wrong btw 20:11:42 he is 20:11:44 i checked 20:11:48 But is he...... 20:11:56 he is 20:12:03 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:12:08 but 20:12:09 is he 20:12:12 yes 20:12:13 he is 20:12:40 but 20:12:41 is 20:12:41 he...... 20:13:00 :/ you're making me doubt myself 20:13:07 me too :( 20:13:18 :( 20:13:50 i made the mostest weirdest food 20:14:16 whate is it 20:15:03 there's stuff and then an egg on top that's almost coagulated but not quite and looks a bit like ghost vomit 20:15:24 wow 20:15:28 what is it made of...... 20:15:35 egg 20:16:11 btw what does ghost vomit look like... 20:16:34 well have you ever seen an egg that's almost coagulated but not quite? 20:17:01 apparently ghost vomit is a band name 20:17:04 :D 20:17:11 monqy: what 20:17:12 :D 20:17:13 now i can't use it 20:17:13 :( 20:17:14 cool 20:17:26 http://www.myspace.com/ghostvomitband 20:17:27 http://www.myspace.com/ghostvomitmusic 20:17:30 there are at least two band scalled ghost vomit 20:17:40 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 20:17:56 Metal / Psychedelic / Punk 20:18:04 Genre: Ambient / Healing & EasyListening / Melodramatic Popular Song 20:18:11 ghost vomit 20:18:14 ...healing? 20:18:20 melodramatic popular song 20:18:37 h...ealing? 20:18:44 eeling 20:22:10 sexual healing 20:31:51 i wonder if anyone ever comes up with a use for the internet 20:32:18 no 20:34:49 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 20:35:03 or clothes 20:35:12 what's a clothe 20:35:28 touche 20:35:38 moare like 20:35:38 douche? 20:35:41 Vorpal: You're wrong btw <-- wrt what? 20:35:55 Vorpal: wrt /usr/bin/env being a problem 20:35:56 of what use are touches 20:36:17 elliott, oh? Well seeing stuff like #!/usr/bin/env perl isn't all that uncommon 20:36:18 touching is very important 20:36:34 elliott, mostly because perl is in /usr/local/bin on freebsd for example 20:36:37 Vorpal: indeed, and making it work does not at all rely on having a /usr/bin/env file 20:36:46 oh? 20:36:55 I guess #!perl might work, no idea 20:37:03 binfmt_misc -> add magic "#!/usr/bin/env" 20:37:07 and magic "#! /usr/bin/env" 20:37:09 ah right 20:37:13 write trivial program to read executable name after it, execute from path 20:37:14 job done 20:37:28 elliott, why didn't they do this for /bin/sh then btw in nixos? 20:37:37 presumably they just didn't think of it 20:37:40 heh 20:37:56 Vorpal: although having a real /bin/sh is useful 20:37:59 so you can do init=/bin/sh 20:38:02 well yeah 20:38:12 but you could just have that on the initramfs? 20:38:14 elliott, #!/bin/bash is fairly common too 20:38:15 and not on the real fs 20:38:19 Vorpal: yeah but that's a bug 20:38:26 actually /bin/sh is a bug too but ubiquitous, so 20:38:26 elliott, not if the script is bash specific 20:38:31 Vorpal: no 20:38:32 it's a bug 20:38:35 elliott, so what should it do instead 20:38:36 #!/usr/bin/env bash is not a bug 20:38:38 #!/bin/bash is a bug 20:38:40 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 20:38:41 heh 20:38:52 Vorpal: I believe bash is in /usr/bin in debian/ubuntu 20:39:07 I guess /bin/sh is OK because /usr might not exist yet 20:39:09 elliott, well afaik /usr/bin/env is not handled on nixos 20:39:12 but /bin/bash isn't 20:39:14 arvid@dragon ~ $ file /bin/bash 20:39:14 /bin/bash: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped 20:39:18 this is a ubuntu system 20:39:18 Vorpal: that's a nixos bug 20:39:29 elliott, go suggest your solution to them 20:39:43 nah, i'd prefer making my own thing instead, they suck 20:39:53 elliott, because of the c++ thingy? yeah 20:40:14 yes; also every other way in which it differs from kitten 20:40:34 elliott, like actually being available today? 20:40:41 yes 20:41:54 I wonder how hard writing a binfmt is 20:42:00 would be nice not to have to rely on binfmt_misc for it 20:43:05 -!- evincar has joined. 20:43:46 elliott: The *POSIX* way to do it is, of course, "command -v bash > /dev/null && bash <<_EOF [...] _EOF" 20:43:49 :P 20:44:09 what the fuck is "command" 20:44:17 i've never used that in my life 20:44:22 oh it's the opposite of builtin 20:44:41 pikhq: anyway fuck that :p 20:45:33 pikhq: Anyway, you still haven't woken Gregor up. I'm disappointed. 20:48:14 Oh my God I forgot how much unionfs/aufs drama there is. 20:48:23 http://www.unionfs.org/ ;; this guy registered a domain literally just to tell people how much better aufs is. 21:01:23 .... 21:01:35 elliott, what is the difference in functionality= 21:01:38 s/=/?/ 21:01:55 is the MIME type text/csv or text/x-csv? 21:01:57 Ask that guy :P 21:02:07 elliott, anyway unionfs is in vanilla isn't it? 21:02:10 ais523\unfoog: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values 21:02:23 Vorpal: No, I don't think so. 21:02:32 thanks 21:02:32 ais523\unfoog, what is up with the \unfoog? I saw elliott having that a while ago 21:02:38 Vorpal: elliott was lying 21:02:40 :-D 21:02:41 it's a NetHack tournament clan 21:02:48 ah I see 21:02:50 ais523\unfoog: I can use whatever nick I want :{ 21:02:55 I'd mention its channel, but it's German-speaking 21:03:16 ais523\unfoog, so is there a major nethack tournament atm? 21:03:24 yes 21:03:30 which one? 21:03:44 Vorpal: /dev/null/nethack 21:03:45 /dev/null/nethack 21:03:50 ah... 21:03:51 /the/ NetHack tournament 21:03:56 I know 21:04:04 I just didn't remember what time of year it usually ran at 21:04:12 ais523\unfoog, also how do clans even make sense for nethack? 21:04:26 just a collection of individual players 21:04:31 it's mostly to make a trashtalk opportunity 21:04:34 ah 21:04:41 clan EIT sucks, etc 21:04:48 heh 21:04:55 ais523\unfoog, so anyone ascended yet this year? 21:05:05 (and when did it start) 21:05:21 it starts in a few hours 21:05:30 [21:04] &time 21:05:31 ah, quite hard to have ascended then already 21:05:31 [21:04] The time remaining until the 2011 Tournament begins is '00-00-00:09-55-10' 21:05:38 about 10 hours 21:05:44 what a strange date format that is... 21:05:48 * elliott ascends ahead of time 21:05:48 yep, indeed 21:06:03 ais523\unfoog: More importantly, what an odd bot prefi. 21:06:04 x. 21:06:21 heh 21:08:11 ais523\unfoog, the oracle bot is not in #nethack, where is it? 21:08:15 wow, it feels weird to be making directories from a Perl script 21:08:17 Vorpal: #devnull_nethack 21:08:20 aha 21:08:28 the channel that's really quiet most of the year 21:08:32 wow, it feels weird to be making directories from a Perl script 21:08:33 wat 21:08:38 but moderately active in October and really active in November 21:08:51 elliott: basically, I'm trying to run a script I ran last year 21:09:11 but the input format is different, being a gmail account rather than a tarball containing a directory per student 21:09:21 so I'm doing it mathematician-style, and reducing it to a problem I've already solved ;) 21:09:49 ais523\unfoog, well, it is last October today. 21:10:12 Vorpal: yes, and the tournament lasts all November, in the wrong timezone 21:10:30 ais523\unfoog, which one do they use? 21:10:44 one of the US ones 21:10:50 whichever one makes it start in 9 hours 50 minutes 21:10:54 anyway isn't US going back from DST like in a few weeks? Or did it do it a few weeks ago? 21:11:19 hmm, in which we discover that the tournament setup scripts only work on openBSD 4.8 21:11:24 I feel like now is a good time to say: Fuck DST. 21:11:26 that would explain why there's such a high density of BSD servers there 21:11:28 ais523\unfoog, ... ouch 21:11:36 I... how? 21:11:43 ais523\unfoog: 4.8 is pretty recent... 21:11:45 well, they're all VMs anyway 21:11:55 they rewrote them a year ago and didn't make them portable? 21:11:58 elliott: apparently they were updated from last year, when they worked on 4.6 specifically 21:12:02 heh 21:12:12 ais523\unfoog: ...which was a year before 4.,8 21:12:16 do they just fix them every year? :P 21:12:41 I think so 21:12:46 this is /dev/null we're talking about 21:12:57 you stop being incredulous after a while 21:13:03 and just assume the correct answer is the least sensible one 21:13:34 ais523\unfoog, I really want to see these scripts now. Are they public? 21:13:41 oh dear I'm going to get quoted again, aren't I? 21:13:47 Vorpal: no; the game modifications are, but the scripts aren't 21:13:51 ah 21:13:54 I think just because krystal is too lazy to put them online 21:13:58 heh 21:14:11 also if it was me, I wouldn't want to put such a broken script online 21:14:28 ais523\unfoog, what modifications are used btw? menucolour and so on I presume? 21:14:34 http://nethack.devnull.net/bragging/index.php 21:14:37 ais523\unfoog: pro web serving 21:15:03 elliott: oh, that link? 21:15:11 it's been broken in various random ways for about three years now, not always consistent ones 21:15:18 heh 21:15:22 ais523\unfoog: it's showing phpbb3 source code 21:15:23 ais523\unfoog, and he hasn't fixed it? 21:15:27 haha, I haven't seen /that/ one before 21:15:30 I just clicked the link 21:15:37 ais523\unfoog, report the bug? 21:15:43 AND ug.user_id = ' . $user->data['user_id'] . ' 21:15:48 Vorpal: not a high priority right now… 21:15:52 well okay 21:15:54 phpbb, you so reassuring. 21:15:57 elliott: it's not SQL injection, because it's plain-text 21:16:12 even if it /looks/ like PHP, nothing's actually executing it 21:16:12 uh 21:16:13 ais523\unfoog: you're implying they use parametrised queries in every case except this 21:16:13 At least config.php is read-protected 21:16:19 oh, i see 21:16:24 I was just commenting on the source it was showing :P 21:16:35 $l_total_user_s = ($total_users == 0) ? 'TOTAL_USERS_ZERO' : 'TOTAL_USERS_OTHER'; 21:16:40 actually that still looks unsafe 21:16:43 the quotes there are worrying me 21:17:01 Vorpal: it isn't 21:17:04 because user_id will be integral 21:17:23 hm 21:17:35 elliott, depends on the source of $user->data 21:17:43 I just hope it isn't straight from a cookie 21:17:44 or such 21:18:08 Pretty sure someone would have noticed an exploit THAT obvious. 21:18:24 $user->session_begin(); 21:18:28 hm 21:18:32 so session data 21:18:47 well, that would require analysing a lot of the stuff to figure that out 21:19:11 session data is typically not user-controllable, although it's hard to know 21:19:18 indeed 21:19:32 ais523\unfoog, you would have to check every point it was accessed in the system to figure it out 21:19:57 Vorpal: your ability to randomly make obvious comments in IRC as if they were profound is not a particularly useful one 21:20:10 ais523\unfoog, very true. 21:20:44 ais523\unfoog, I actually didn't intend doing that 21:46:04 -!- Nihilist_ has joined. 21:47:14 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:49:12 -!- augur has joined. 21:52:20 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]). 21:53:07 how's this for a CSV file: 2B!$8B!$7B!$9B!$3B!$4B!$5B!$6 21:53:17 should I interpret "B!$" as ","? 21:53:32 at least nobody submitted a PDF of the lecture notes this time 21:57:53 well, maybe they did, my script probably wouldn't have tried to parse it 21:58:47 ## Message from Gmail Team has unrecognised subject 'Customize Gmail with colors and themes' 21:59:01 at least my script's spam filter is working decently 21:59:59 Dammit, I think I'm going to have to write a parser. 22:00:13 Someone write my parser for me. 22:00:14 I wrote one last night, for Anarchy 22:00:21 so, umm, I can now parse Anarchy, yay 22:00:26 at least, the subset I'm working on first 22:00:30 ofc, typechecking is the hard part 22:00:43 this entire compiler is going to suck, as Anarchy is the only sensible language to write it in and I have to bootstrap somehow 22:01:08 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:01:38 "One day in September of 2011 — though I'm not sure precisely which one — marked Befunge-93's 18th birthday. That means that Befunge is now old enough to drink in its native land of Canada. To celebrate this, I thought I'd get Befunge-93 drunk to see what would happen." 22:01:45 -!- Nihilist_ has quit (Quit: http://haskell.org). 22:02:00 cpressey, right? 22:02:10 yep; he has a new esolang out 22:02:10 it doesn't actually outright state that, nor does it logically imply that 22:02:19 but really, could it really be anyone else? 22:02:46 He should have more time in the day and more patience for dealing with idiots so he could come here again. 22:03:34 haha, someone accidentally did part of atehwa's Underload assignment in ():^ 22:03:42 ais523\unfoog: be proud 22:04:02 elliott: shouldn't that be "oerjan: be proud"? he did the reduction 22:04:10 The esolang in question: http://catseye.tc/projects/flobnar/ 22:04:11 you made the language :P 22:04:23 Deewiant: I assumed anyone even vaguely interested would be able to find out 22:04:25 s/out/it/ 22:04:41 ".falderal"? 22:04:50 ais523\unfoog: http://catseye.tc/projects/falderal/ 22:04:53 elliott: I'd rather make it easy for people when there's almost no additional effort on my part involved :-P 22:05:56 Deewiant: oh wow, it keeps funge-98 style bounding boxes 22:06:02 chris why 22:06:27 -!- Darth_Cliche has joined. 22:06:41 Not sure I like the built-in orientation of things like / 22:07:28 hey, did I ever put Shove on the wiki? 22:07:35 it's also a pseudo-functional 2D language 22:07:44 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Shove 22:07:46 No. 22:08:25 Flobnar is prettier than Befunge-93, visually. 22:09:56 ah right, it isn't just a spec, but a literate test suite 22:10:00 that's quite an interesting idea, actually 22:10:14 The spec is http://catseye.tc/projects/flobnar/src/Flobnar.hs :P 22:13:03 Flobnar is strict, right? It doesn't actually say that, but it implies it, and it's really relevant with the number of side-effects going on 22:13:33 "The `/` term evaluates whatever is to the north of it (and we call that 22:13:33 It evaluates to the quotient of dividing /a/ by /b/." 22:13:40 That's strict semantics. 22:13:43 erm 22:13:46 fucking xchat 22:13:55 "The `/` term evaluates whatever is to the north of it (and we call that 22:13:55 /a/), then evaluates whatever is to the south of it (and we call that /b/). 22:13:55 It evaluates to the quotient of dividing /a/ by /b/. 22:13:55 " 22:16:44 oh, apparently Emacs understands the encoding on that "CSV" file as really mapping B!$ to , 22:16:50 must be some weird unusual encoding 22:17:10 ask emacs what encoding it is 22:17:40 I forgot, but it abbreviated it to "J" 22:17:46 so I'm guessing Shift-JIS or a variant thereof 22:17:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:18:10 hmm, dunno about that but ok 22:19:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:19:15 also, bleh, why does Emacs not recognise utf-9 as a valid coding system name? 22:19:56 also, I finally figured out what the command to save a file in a different encoding is: set-buffer-file-coding-system 22:20:02 I'd always been accessing it via the menus up to now 22:20:48 Coding system for saving this buffer: 22:20:49 J -- iso-2022-7bit-unix 22:20:50 so now we know 22:21:39 oh, and apparently it's C-x RET f, which is even better than trying to type the name 22:23:26 * ais523\unfoog rmdir [0-9]* 22:23:31 that's a weird mistake to make… 22:23:57 also, has a different meaning in regex and wildmat, and both would match the set of files I wanted (in the case of a regex, if properly anchored) 22:24:02 *set of directories 22:24:32 I'm the wildest mat. 22:24:48 Maaaan, it is ridiculous how much I do not want to write a parser. 22:24:53 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 22:26:19 http://nixos.org/patchelf.html 22:26:21 oh, brilliant 22:27:30 oh for fuck's sake 22:27:35 it had to be written in C++ didn't it 22:27:45 I hate you, Nix guys, hate you 22:28:55 what insane situation are you in that makes you want to change those paths on ELF files? 22:30:45 ais523\unfoog: a situation in which the RPATH of a proprietary executable is broken 22:30:53 OK, that is pretty insane 22:31:04 ais523\unfoog: no, it's not 22:31:15 or: when the ELF interpreter path of a proprietary executable is broken 22:31:26 I mean, that the executable is wrong 22:31:27 propritary executables? whats that 22:31:36 surely such things should have standardised values, as it makes no sense to do it otherwise? 22:31:49 monqy: binaries that you can't recompile for legal or technical reasons, and also that you didn't write 22:32:00 ais523\unfoog: what if your libraries aren't in /lib:/usr/lib:/usr/local/lib? 22:32:02 crazy 22:32:14 in NixOS, they're in /nix/store/sd8fusd9f35890uefd0wj90-libfoo-3.0/lib 22:32:14 elliott: then why aren't they there? 22:32:22 and /nix/store/sdf09usdf0q934uasdn-libbar-495/lib 22:32:32 ais523\unfoog: because that breaks all the key properties of Nix? 22:32:39 and any similar system? 22:32:59 "Chromium's New Tab page has been remodeled. Switch between sections by clicking these labels. Chrome will remember your preference for next time. _Learn more_" 22:33:43 wow, a) why are they constantly changing the interface for no good reason, it's as bad as firefox, b) I don't care about either the new or old version, c) why does the mouse form a text selection cursor when I move the mouse pointer over the popup yet I can't select the text to copy-and-paste it so I had to retype all that? 22:34:04 (b) sounds more like your problem than Chromium's 22:34:12 well, yes 22:34:21 i wish my new tab page could be blank 22:34:24 I mean, unless you think a UI update should be completely silent and not offer any kind of help at all to confuse people as much as possible 22:34:29 fancy new tab pages make me sad 22:34:46 I also wish I could control autocomplete 22:34:57 a) is because the browser devs seem to think that change is good, even when it's just change for the sake of change. 22:35:13 also, why is gmail telling me about changes to Google Buzz when this is a single-use account that hasn't used it ever? 22:35:24 changes = it's being shut down 22:35:39 elliott: I think it's hilarious that Microsoft copies OS X and Linux even when they're full of bad rather than good ideas 22:36:00 (not actually more than vaguely related, but I'm in a non sequitur sort of mood) 22:36:37 also, why does Chromium switch to a new tab when I control-click it? 22:36:43 that completely defeats half the point of control-clicking 22:36:55 Control-click what? 22:37:18 err, middle-click 22:37:19 ais523\unfoog: ? 22:37:23 Middle-click what? 22:37:25 a link 22:37:31 ais523\unfoog: WFM 22:37:38 You're doing something wrong 22:37:39 I use control-click rather than middle click normally as middle-clicking is awkward on a touchpad 22:37:45 elliott: probably it's gmail's fault, then 22:37:48 I absolutely hate gmail 22:37:55 What did you middle-click, and everyone knows 22:37:57 now that I've been forced to use it for work 22:38:09 elliott: the linked subject of an email message, to open the message 22:41:48 "Be a master of efficiency. Combine the unread, important and starred inboxes. Power through what's important." 22:41:58 is Google always like this? 22:42:21 I thought they got their search lead in the first place by /not/ randomly annoying people 22:43:39 ais523\unfoog: Are you just going to complain about Gmail minutiae for hours? 22:44:10 probably 22:44:14 because I'm /really annoyed/ at it 22:44:29 I think I know how Wooble feels constantly at the moment 22:44:37 Hmm, does anyone know how to modify a process' environment variables? 22:44:43 it might be sensible to /ignore me until tomorrow 22:44:55 I don't /ignore anyone. 22:44:55 elliott: processes don't have environment variables as a constant thing 22:45:07 rather, they're passed environment variables as a (possibly hidden) argument to main 22:45:15 via the execve syscall, which takes the environment as an argument 22:45:17 ais523\unfoog: yes they do: see putenv 22:45:22 libc handles the illusion of a consistent environment 22:45:30 all putenv is doing is changing a variable inside the libc 22:45:38 Well, OK, here's a different question: 22:45:39 which remembers the environment for if you call a wrapper like execl 22:45:50 Does anyone know how to modify the libc's idea of environment variables of a process behind its back? 22:46:12 the variable is normally exposed as "environ", IIRC 22:46:18 but that's only from within the same process 22:46:29 that's a bit like asking "does anyone know how to modify main's idea of argv behind its back?" 22:46:41 yep 22:46:46 I'm not expecting it to be clean 22:46:46 which is also a valid and moderately sensible question, but I don't know the answer 22:47:01 you'd basically have to do the equivalent of attaching a debugger 22:47:15 ok, so I'll have to either tweak or rewrite cunionfs at the very least... 22:47:20 since this isn't feasible 22:47:28 new question: what per-process namespaces does linux offer? 22:47:33 (general use of the word namespace, not the linux meaning) 22:47:40 environment variables are one 22:47:47 /proc is another, in a way 22:47:57 fds? 22:48:01 but I don't know if you can create files under /proc/ 22:48:06 ais523\unfoog: that other things can modify :) 22:48:19 you might want to look at the docs for the clone(2) system call 22:48:20 the usecase is: cunionfs reads the list of directories to union from an environment variable 22:48:31 they explain a lot about what can optionally be shared between processes 22:48:35 so you can start a process seeing a different union set by passing an environment variable 22:48:41 but I want to modify the union /after/ a process starts 22:48:51 so I need a mutable-from-outside per-process data store 22:49:17 ah, ouch 22:49:33 open unlinked fd, and writing to it via /proc, is probably the least insane method 22:49:37 even though it's somewhat insane 22:49:45 ais523\unfoog: that's more insane than just using files 22:49:55 i.e. /run/magicunion/ 22:51:04 ais523\unfoog: but files are kind of ugly, since they're not tied to the lifetime of the process, etc. :) 22:51:38 that also might be suboptimal because it forces a syscall per file access in the union 22:51:42 to read the union file 22:51:50 but I guess that's inevitable if it's going to be mutable 22:52:03 at the very least you'd need a syscall to figure out whether the union changed 22:52:16 elliott: that's why unlinked file; that is tied to the lifetime of the process 22:52:41 ais523\unfoog: it has to work with every process 22:52:54 ais523\unfoog: I can't force everybody to open an fd before calling exec() after fork()... 22:53:46 ais523\unfoog: I'm probably OK if I need to write a kernel module for this, if that'll allow me to create e.g. /proc//union 22:53:56 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:54:14 what are you trying to do, in as in why do you want to do the why do you want to do this? 22:54:20 because it sounds beautifully insane 22:54:23 ais523\unfoog: "in as in"? 22:54:29 *as in 22:54:35 and being willing to write a kernel module just to make it work makes it sound vaguely important 22:55:45 ais523\unfoog: well, I'm working on Kitten, and have a Nix-style purely functional directory-per-package store, which needs to be aggregated into a single file tree so that you only have to add one directory to your path rather than five hundred; Nix does this by statically generating a tree of symlinks 22:55:55 but doing it as a unionfs seems cleaner to me 22:56:10 but if you e.g. install a package, then all your running processes have to be updated to see it in the tree 22:56:18 = mutating the set of union branches 22:56:36 perhaps it'd make more sense for the fs to handle all that by itself? 22:56:41 what fs? 22:56:55 ais523\unfoog: anyway, I /explicitly/ want it to be per-process 22:56:58 a custom one based on unionfs 22:57:02 because that lets me do cool things 22:57:02 that knows about processes 22:57:10 ais523\unfoog: cunionfs /does/ know about processes 22:57:13 (cunionfs, not unionfs) 22:57:18 ais523\unfoog: but, like I said, does it through environment variables 22:57:19 ah, OK 22:57:23 well, I think I'm out of my depth, here 22:57:30 I'm asking, how should my unionfs read the union set so I canm utate it? 22:57:35 s/nm /n m/ 22:57:53 what events would make the set change? 22:58:11 ais523\unfoog: installing a package, removing a package 22:58:27 -!- Darth_Cliche has quit (Quit: You are now graced with my absence.). 22:58:28 and it'd change it for all executables provided by that package? 22:58:31 installing a package has to add /.../sduf89sdfu98f98-firefox-348978947234 to the union 22:58:38 so that /.../sduf89sdfu98f98-firefox-348978947234/bin becomes part of /union/path/bin 22:58:51 removing it has to remove it 22:58:53 ah, OK 22:58:56 ais523\unfoog: no, it'd do it for all running executables 22:59:01 well, ran by the user 22:59:01 what bonuses do you get for this being per-process? 22:59:33 ais523\unfoog: [~/really-old-program]$ with 'gcc == 3.*' ./configure 22:59:50 aha 23:00:01 but, hmm, /that/ setting won't change with package changes 23:00:14 ais523\unfoog: yes, I lied a bit: it'd mutate everything set to "defaults" 23:00:18 hmm 23:00:25 maybe I could have a specific "default" branch setting 23:00:27 so it might be possible to have two layers, a system-wide one that can change during process lifetime, and a per-process one that's fixed throughout the whole lifetime? 23:00:33 and that would cause the unionfs to look up what the current defaults are 23:00:46 then there'd be no mutation necessary 23:01:01 ais523\unfoog: thanks, this might help :P 23:01:02 bleh, my computer's so unresponsive when it's simultaneously running four O(n^3) CPU-bound algos 23:01:16 Shocking. 23:01:35 ais523\unfoog: you might want to set the priorities of X, your WM and your panel to realtime 23:01:56 perhaps, but I don't care that much 23:02:03 besides, this lets me know when the programs have finished 23:02:17 and using RT prios on programs not obviously designed for them's always a bit risky 23:03:00 (Linux has been changed so that no longer hard-locks the entire system, right?) 23:03:27 ais523\unfoog: well, isochronous would be better than RT, but I doubt you're running BFS 23:08:49 kmc: Oh man, that GHC bug you found will actually affect some code I'm writing :-| 23:08:58 I'm upset. 23:09:15 does it have a trivial but bizarre workaround? 23:10:07 Depends what you mean by trivial. 23:10:15 elliott, Phantom_Hoover: NEW HUMBLE BUNDLE 23:10:23 EVERYBODY RUUUUUUUUUN 23:10:33 IT'LL ONLY BE AVAILABLE FOR THREE SECONDS 23:10:49 elliott, yes. 3 seconds and 13 days 23:11:05 "Voxatron is an arcade/adventure game set in an entirely destructible world made out of voxels (little cubes, kind of)." 23:11:07 Vorpal, given that the 3rd was kind of crap, and the second has a game I wanted but couldn't play and another, admittedly good game, I'll pass. 23:11:07 And it's an alpha. 23:11:09 I'm looking at what the game is atm 23:11:11 THIS SOUNDS FAMILIAR.................... 23:11:29 Phantom_Hoover, well, I just thought I ought to inform you 23:11:32 Looks cool actually. 23:11:36 No wait this loosk super cool. 23:11:39 Does this have multiplayer? 23:11:44 Phantom_Hoover: If this has multiplayery ou have to get it. 23:11:59 elliott, he has an intel cardboard box. 23:12:09 Vorpal: Dude, it's a retro-styled voxel game. 23:12:13 Phantom_Hoover, and yeah it sucks that the games didn't work for you 23:12:21 Phantom_Hoover, I can assure you most of them were awesome 23:12:53 OK so this is just... one game. 23:12:56 I'm paying like a penny. 23:14:14 This, uh. 23:14:24 elliott, I'm going to pay like 0.1€ more than the current average. Just in case. 23:14:25 Vorpal: There's references to previews of this game from 300 days ago. 23:14:29 Long alpha. 23:14:32 elliott, hm 23:14:37 elliott, reminds of some game 23:14:39 Vorpal: Also you can increase what you're payingl ater. 23:14:44 s/l a/ la/ 23:14:48 -!- augur has joined. 23:15:29 can't quite remember the name.... something-craft.... quarrycraft? 23:15:51 "Voxatron is an arcade/adventure game set in an entirely destructible world made out of voxels (little cubes, kind of)." 23:15:51 And it's an alpha. 23:15:51 THIS SOUNDS FAMILIAR.................... 23:15:52 elliott, this looks like a 3D editor to me: http://www.lexaloffle.com/gfx/ssvox6.png 23:15:55 Beat you to it; also funnier. 23:16:02 elliott, yes right, but I meant the alpha thingy 23:16:04 long alpha 23:16:05 Vorpal: That's because that's what it is. 23:16:13 oh the map editor? 23:16:28 Also object editor, it looks like. 23:16:46 I'm curently limited due to small monitor, I'll bring this up on my desktop once I rebooted it. 23:18:04 there we go 23:18:53 Hmm, I wonder if I can separate things into two types of options to make the DSL route work... 23:20:25 interesting certainly 23:20:40 will go for a small sum for the start 23:21:52 elliott, I like the "do whatever the verb of google plus is" in that video. What is the verb? 23:22:19 Nonplus. 23:22:54 NPROCS=$(cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep processor | awk '{a++} END {print a}') \ 23:22:54 Heh. 23:24:12 make install -j$NPROCS ICK_SPECIFIC_SUBDIR=ick DESTDIR="$1" 23:24:17 ais523\unfoog: what does ICK_SPECIFIC_SUBDIR even do? 23:24:29 elliott: it's a hook for Debian 23:24:47 that isn't an answer :P 23:24:47 it names the directory of the global places that hold directories for all sorts of programs, that is specific to INTERCAL 23:25:02 wait, what? 23:25:10 you know how you have /usr/lib/perl, etc? 23:25:13 that's the INTERCAL equivalent 23:25:22 oh 23:25:26 what is it by default, then? 23:25:31 ick-$version 23:25:36 ah 23:25:38 Debian don't like versioned subdirs 23:25:40 huh, 64-bit deb, but just one .tar.gz, I wonder if it is 32-bit or 64-bit 23:25:41 so I gave them a hook 23:25:46 evidently I didn't either 23:25:50 because manually patching the makefile is annoying 23:26:01 well, it feels dirty in a way 23:26:21 oh that is 32-bit 23:28:24 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:29:01 elliott, aiee the resolution options of this game sucks 23:29:12 it can do native + 800x600 + some weird even smaller ones 23:29:23 so it is either full screen or tiny window for me 23:29:52 Vorpal: just run it in gdb :P 23:30:01 elliott, this is the list of resolutions: 1680x1050, 840x525 (wtf?), 800x600, 800x480 23:30:07 800x480? What? 23:30:15 Vorpal: it's a small widescreen res 23:30:20 -!- evincar has joined. 23:30:49 heh 23:31:52 Vorpal: maybe it just upscales beyond that to keep the retro aesthetics 23:31:56 you could use compiz zoom :p 23:32:04 `addquote Life expectancy now is a function of whether you go berserk or not. 23:32:06 704) Life expectancy now is a function of whether you go berserk or not. 23:34:37 well, their live chat works okay 23:36:22 ais523\unfoog: how crazy does this sound: constantly run a daemon that uses inotify to incrementally backup every change to every file (reverse binary diff snapshotting, etc.) 23:36:52 well, every file apart from /run and /tmp and the like :) 23:37:04 elliott: better to make it an OS feature rather than trying to userland it, I think 23:37:28 ais523\unfoog: I can implement this faster than I can implement @ 23:37:50 fair enough 23:37:58 is Kitten practice for @? 23:38:27 ais523\unfoog: no, Kitten's so I don't give up on computers and become an anarcho-primitivist before @ comes out 23:38:43 haha 23:38:50 you are too much a perfectionist :) 23:39:00 no, everything else is just that broken :) 23:39:07 fizzie: syn 23:39:27 ais523\unfoog: anyway, a perfectionist would never create a linux distro... 23:39:53 hmm, I think nilfs actually does what I want 23:39:58 elliott: mind reading something? 23:40:01 "NILFS creates a number of checkpoints every few seconds or per synchronous write basis (unless there is no change). Users can select significant versions among continuously created checkpoints, and can change them into snapshots which will be preserved until they are changed back to checkpoints." 23:40:11 and you can mount snapshots 23:40:13 augur: go on 23:40:21 http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/Draft2.pdf up to but not including section 3 23:40:28 prose might be choppy 23:40:44 this is going to be boring isn't it :'( 23:41:16 "Most dogs love Alpo, and most cats love Whiskas" 23:41:18 augur: [citation needed] 23:41:42 use/mention 23:42:58 If you wanted to statically type a Forth-like language, what would be the type of a word with multiple possible stack effects? Say, something that turns an "End"-delimited series of values into a list. 23:43:33 I guess that's not the best example, because you could call it A End B -> A [B] or whatever. 23:44:02 see cat, factor 23:44:05 mostly cat 23:44:15 words with dynamic stack effects are simply not allwoed 23:44:23 you could do some kind of ad-hoc overloading a la typeclasses, but that's not the same thing 23:44:28 since that's static 23:44:50 "For those readers who are unfamiliar with American pet products, Alpo 23:44:50 and Whiskas are brands of dog food and cat food, respectively." 23:44:53 augur: whiskas is uk too at least 23:44:56 dunno about alpo 23:45:02 elliott: i know both are in finland as well 23:45:10 augur: anyway has nobody really investigated this before 23:45:10 but ive had some people complain they didnt know wtf i was talking about 23:45:12 it'd be like 23:45:17 item one on my why is language so fucked up project 23:45:22 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:45:28 maybe five people have, but the explanations are shit 23:45:56 augur: your field is fucked >:( 23:46:11 elliott: theres lots of other stuff that people are concerned with 23:46:14 elliott: Thanks...that's generally what I was thinking, but it seems a rather arbitrary limitation. :/ 23:46:26 a lot of current research, for instance, is interested in quantificational properties 23:46:37 -!- sllide has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:46:46 evincar: some kind of thing restricting how values can be combined to eliminate a large class of bad programs while rejecting some good ones by necessity... 23:46:48 almost like 23:46:49 some kind of 23:46:51 type system 23:46:54 It seems like a failing of the type system though. 23:47:04 That you can't denote the type of an arbitrary stack effect. 23:47:19 But then you'd end up with dependent typing for no reason? 23:47:21 I guess? 23:47:28 augur: these diagrams are so boring 23:47:37 elliott: the trees? i know. 23:47:44 they're all the same! 23:47:45 can't you just write them inline 23:47:52 the trees? 23:48:05 yeah 23:48:06 er.. there is notation for that, but it's not as easy to read 23:48:08 augur: "In view of the fourt property," typo 23:48:14 yeah ive fixed that locally 23:48:24 "In (41) and (??)," ?? isn't a number hth 23:48:54 yes, the finnish examples have yet to be added 23:49:04 so \ref{} is pointing to nothing 23:49:15 its not complete, that part 23:50:02 yeah i know :P 23:50:09 can you actually cite random people on irc for this 23:50:10 i mean 23:50:11 i'd just lie 23:50:52 you never cite your informants 23:51:17 wow so i can just write a paper full of shit 23:51:17 awesome 23:51:49 "He will eat a hamburger and her a hotdog" 23:51:53 Vorpal: maybe it just upscales beyond that to keep the retro aesthetics <-- no it doesn't 23:51:54 augur: i can confirm this is 101% idiomatic 23:52:12 elliott: sorry? 23:52:16 102%. 23:52:27 elliott, anyway you can do it manually: ~/.lexaloffle/Voxatron/config.txt 23:52:27 im not sure what you mean by "101% idiomatic" 23:52:29 it gets more idiomatic the more i look at it. trust me. native english speaker. you wouldn't understand. 23:52:34 perhaps you mean colloquial? 23:52:34 elliott, editing that by hand works 23:52:42 augur: no I mean it is totally correct. 23:52:46 i am the most serious linguist 23:53:06 idiomatic does not mean correct :| 23:53:09 It's true, actually. "Her" basically stands for "as for her". :P 23:53:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:53:17 it's 23:53:24 idiomatic means that the meaning isn't obviously connected to the words 23:53:24 not 23:53:26 like "kick the bucket" 23:53:30 no it's not true evincar i was bullshitting 23:53:43 elliott: I was aware you were bullshitting and was contradicting you. 23:53:51 evincar: also, "her" definitely doesnt stand for "as for her" there 23:53:56 "He will eat a hamburger and she a hotdog" = makes sense 23:53:58 "He will eat a hamburger and her a hotdog" = doesn't 23:54:05 Unless you weren't actually bullshitting and just pretending not to be bullshitting. 23:54:18 elliott: makes sense in what way 23:54:21 although the former looks kinda wrong too ~SEMANTIC SATIATION~ 23:54:27 augur: well i parse it about ten times easier :P 23:54:32 isn't the former meant to be the correct one 23:54:33 i've lost track 23:54:35 If most native speakers can correctly infer the meaning of a phrase, it's correct as far as I'm concerned. 23:54:36 fuck language 23:54:41 augur: ask a native lojban speaker next 23:54:43 elliott: "meant to be" no 23:54:46 i mean 23:54:57 subject case in english is a mess 23:55:01 its extremely variable 23:55:02 augur: meant to be as in 23:55:04 Case inflection is so five centuries ago. 23:55:06 in the context of the paper 23:55:08 there are people who insist that it must be "she" 23:55:13 Six or seven, really. 23:55:15 but thats irrelevant 23:55:24 the latter is definitely super hard tor ead 23:55:25 in the paper, no, neither is "more correct" 23:55:25 to read 23:55:43 augur: i'm not going prescriptivist on you I just assumed everyone would find the latter one wrong :P 23:55:55 elliott: oh, no, everyone i talk to prefers the latter one 23:56:01 hmm 23:56:05 well they both look wrong to me 23:56:05 but thats just case shit 23:56:08 so i guess i'm just ruined 23:56:24 I celebrate my minor victory by mounting my platypus. 23:56:24 yeah its plausible that pronominals would be harder to get 23:56:36 elliott: you might also want some discourse context to ameliorate it 23:56:50 augur: wow i want to punch you for that sentence 23:56:57 why :( 23:56:59 nothing personal 23:58:51 I'm pretty sure all punches, however hypothetical, are personal. :P 23:59:26 elliott: well you can try. you might hurt yourself tho D: 23:59:32 -!- oerjan has joined.