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00:06:58 <elliott> ais523: write on my tombstone "killed by @", please
00:07:11 <ais523> elliott: don't be so hasty; you /might/ survive
00:07:47 <elliott> I think I've ended up wiping the backup with the forth
00:07:55 <elliott> so I'll have to find the latest sprunge of it and re-fix that bug
00:10:40 -!- copumpkin has joined.
00:12:45 <oerjan> elliott will survive forever, being ironically saved by a liver transplant from a kurzweil having a tragic accident.
00:13:30 -!- augur has joined.
00:25:45 <elliott> [elliott@dinky esoteric]$ for x in $(grep 'elliott>.*http://sprunge\.us/' 2011-0{3,4,9}-??.txt | sed 's/.*\(http[^ ]\+\).*/\1/g;'); do if curl -sS "$x" | grep -c 'push 0xB800' >/dev/null; then echo "$x"; fi; done
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00:26:16 <ais523> elliott: that is indeed beholdable
00:27:06 <ais523> the existence of the special-cased months, and the curl invocation, means it's a bit hard to figure out
00:27:19 <ais523> and I can't remember what B800 does
00:27:26 <elliott> ais523: goes through sprunge pastes I made in 2011-{03,04,09} and prints out the ones that contain "push 0xB800", which was one of the first lines of my Forth bootsector code
00:27:59 <ais523> hmm, I mentally read that number as "B800", with a sort of hexadecimal flavour to it
00:28:00 * elliott tries "bits 16", that should be 100% reliable
00:28:07 <ais523> I don't mentally pronounce the "0x" unless I'm thinking about it
00:29:14 <elliott> no additional results :/ guess I'll trawl through 2011-{04,05} to find where and how i fixed the bug
00:31:41 <elliott> 2011-04-13.txt:20:38:21: <newsham> i came here because olsner has a big mouth and elliott has a small forth
00:31:46 <elliott> olsner: speaking of that, do you have a copy of it
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00:36:14 <elliott> 2011-04-24.txt:19:19:51: <elliott_> well that forth almost has a compiler now :D
00:36:23 <elliott> i'm not going to rewrite that thing, it was long
00:36:40 <elliott> ais523: looks like @ it is
00:43:56 <elliott> monqy: pikhq: olsner: You're hired.
00:44:38 <ais523> elliott: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20111104202226210 is the article about SCO vs. IBM reopening
00:45:04 <elliott> "SCO has once again filed an inadequately redacted document, so I've pulled the PDF until they replace it"
00:45:36 <elliott> ais523: hmm, why are they still calling themselves SCO if they're TSG now?
00:45:50 <ais523> they call everything SCO
00:45:54 <ais523> in an attempt to confuse people
00:46:28 <ais523> well, they did get IBM's name wrong first time they sued them
00:46:41 <ais523> (they gave the place of incorporation incorrectly)
00:46:42 <elliott> "Didn't UnXis also get the SCO Group name? In the SCO bankruptcy filings since the sale, the entity formerly known as The SCO Group calls itself TSG. But UnXis *didn't* get the litigation against IBM. It's listed on the Excluded Assets. So who exactly is this asking to reopen the IBM litigation now? The filings say it's "The SCO GROUP, INC., by and through the Chapter 11 Trustee in Bankruptcy, Edward N
00:46:42 <elliott> . Cahn." Maybe the lawyers forgot themselves that they need to change the name. They can do that later, I suppose, but it's odd to anyone like me, who actually keeps track of the details."
00:48:04 <elliott> hmm, slicehost's emails to me are getting depressing
00:48:11 <ais523> are you still on slicehost?
00:48:21 <ais523> and if not, are they trying to persuade you to come back?
00:48:36 <elliott> this one's signed "The Rackspace Team", and is about them discontinuing almost all their linux images
00:48:41 <elliott> ais523: considering you can't order new slices, I doubt it
00:48:51 <elliott> or, hmm, maybe you can if you already own an account
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00:49:14 <elliott> ais523: but yeah, rackspace have been in the process of engulfing it completely over the last few months, really slowly
00:57:55 -!- elliott has changed nick to qwrji0j0qiwejioi.
00:58:00 -!- qwrji0j0qiwejioi has changed nick to elliott.
01:04:05 <elliott> Gregor: Yooooooo how's cunionfs :P
01:04:28 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude.
01:07:33 <elliott> Gregor: Did Kernel Modules for Dummies not work out :P
01:13:24 <Gregor> elliott: Nope, I ordered The Idiot's Guide, we'll see how that goes.
01:14:11 <elliott> Gregor: See, without the unionfs component, the only thing I can work on is the hard stuff, like a parser, evaluator, GC.
01:14:20 <elliott> So I haaaaate you for making me not do the easy stuff.
01:14:25 <elliott> Maybe I'll focus on the download progress bars some more.
01:17:56 <Gregor> Have I mentioned recently that my graphics card has an integrated audio card?
01:17:59 <Gregor> 'cuz I feel it needs to be said.
01:18:08 <elliott> Gregor: Yes. Use it to implement cunionfs! That will work.
01:18:15 <elliott> Gregor: Also, does it give you double audio.
01:20:08 <Gregor> Well yeah, the motherboard has an audio card too.
01:21:51 <elliott> Gregor: Sell it to audiophiles.
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01:39:49 <zzo38> I found my name is now on the Hackage but they didn't sent the password. It is because the system administrator accidentally made a mistake and blocking all incoming connections to their firewall (that meant they couldn't receive their own messages, either). But they fixed it yesterday, and I sent them another message to tell them it is hopefully fixed now. Tomorrow I can check.
01:40:24 <Gregor> Server maintenance: The greatestest?
01:42:58 <monqy> oh hey another brainfuck equivalent
01:43:19 <Gregor> We need more minor rewrites of BF!
01:44:48 <monqy> Wordfuck (also known as Natural BF-based language with common instructions and syntax of that language, or just NBFBLWCIASTL) is a language created by User:Marcsances identical to Brainfuck, except the way to write statements. That makes of Wordfuck even more difficult than Brainfuck (if you want to write beautiful programs, if not, it's just as easy as Brainfuck, but longer).
01:44:49 <elliott> Gregor: monqy: argh this one is annoying because i need to extend my bf-defining metalanguage to support it
01:44:57 <elliott> since it's based on length, not direct textual substitution
01:45:21 <elliott> monqy: i make my metalanguage
01:45:27 <elliott> you just write a language->bf compiler in bf
01:45:44 <monqy> also i have to leave?? haha school
01:46:12 <elliott> just kidding monqy you are coles
01:50:18 * Gregor gets out his acoustic PSA guitar.
01:50:43 <elliott> "st ay in school or you will be like Gregor and no cunionfs will ever be yours"
01:50:54 <Gregor> School is cool, when you learn you rule! More bad puns because PSA's are cruel!
01:57:15 * shachaf finds elliott's time zone habits a bit mysterious.
01:57:32 <elliott> Watch as they become even more mysterious:
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02:51:41 <elliott> Gregor: So on thinking about it (= procrastinating more on the harder parts of the package manager), I'm pretty sure that the ideal solution for atomic branch-switching for me would be anything that lets me trivially emulate the following: "Have a process tree all set to source their branches from a file. The file is re-read, and every process in the tree switched to the new branches simultaneously, upon writing to a special file."
02:52:01 <elliott> (A way to simply update the tree with a new branch list atomically without actually involving the file path in the cunionfs stuff qualifies as trivial emulation.)
03:10:27 <zzo38> Another way to make Wordfuck variation, is, punctuation doesn't count, and word with 1 letter means to ignore this word and the next one, word with more than nine letters you put the digits according to the number of letters in the word and do the command according to their decimal digits.
03:10:57 <zzo38> The way the example does the words not very good. Maybe the variation way writes proper wording instead.
03:14:24 <zzo38> For the article about Lenta, I think either the instructions is wrong or the example is wrong, because it says $ move left but you have to move right to start the program given in the examples.
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03:16:16 <madbr> hmm, had an interesting idea for a CPU architecture
03:16:38 <zzo38> madbr: OK. What is your idea?
03:17:02 <madbr> probably ends up being similar to how out of order cpus work
03:17:37 <madbr> a cpu with 2 modes: "RISC" mode, and what could be called "dataflow" mode
03:18:14 <madbr> risc mode works just like any other architecture and is used for all the non-performance sensitive code
03:18:59 <madbr> ie anything that's probably not going to be in code cache and/or does lots of memory access so it's not going to be faster than 1 op/cycle anyways
03:20:10 <madbr> dataflow mode is used for small loops that churn lots of data, like say a memcopy for instance, or a sound mixing loop
03:20:49 <madbr> sets up the cpu as ~30 ALUs, each leading to one register
03:21:48 <madbr> on each cycle, each of the ALUs read 1 or 2 values from the other registers, performs a math op on it, and next cycle its register will take the resulting value
03:22:10 <elliott> how does memory interact with that
03:22:17 <elliott> i.e. how does that let you do memcpy
03:23:14 <madbr> one of the ALU ops is "load from address", will probably be only available on few of the units, and probably stall everything else on cache misses
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03:24:35 <madbr> some of the units will probably also be writing units, not doing any math ops but taking an adress and a value and writing there
03:27:21 <madbr> memcpy is pretty simple so it would probably look something like this:
03:29:05 <madbr> obviously r2 will lag a cycle behind r0 so some mechanism has to be added to deal with that
03:30:37 <madbr> for algos larger than the number of units, some kind of "multi cycle" mechanism would have to be used, where the operations for each unit are cycled around
03:32:07 <madbr> so basically it's somewhere between a VLIW processor and some kind of mini-FPGA
03:35:39 <pikhq_> elliott: Oooh. Oooh. @ gets really cheap memcpy basically for free.
03:36:00 <pikhq_> Rewrite the page table.
03:36:17 <pikhq_> Do "normal" memcpy for first/last ~4k if necessary.
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03:36:31 <elliott> pikhq_: That, um, might do badly if anyone mutates it :P
03:36:38 <pikhq_> Admittedly, this is nothing unique to @, but it'd be much *easier* to pull off in @ than in UNIX.
03:36:53 <zzo38> It doesn't seem rewriting the page table really copies the memory, unless you know you will never change the data afterward until the program is finished
03:36:56 <madbr> what if ther pages don't align?
03:36:59 <pikhq_> elliott: That's why you make it COW.
03:37:10 <elliott> pikhq_: heh, that would work
03:37:12 <elliott> pikhq_: why doesn't glibc do that
03:37:22 <elliott> madbr: <pikhq_> Do "normal" memcpy for first/last ~4k if necessary.
03:37:23 <pikhq_> elliott: Because the page table is not exposed to userspace.
03:37:32 <elliott> pikhq_: yeah what if they don't align what now pikhq_
03:37:39 <elliott> also I'm using >4k pages so that's a common scenario
03:38:01 <madbr> elliott: works if the start/end are misaligned I guess, but afaik not if the data is misaligned?
03:38:02 <pikhq_> elliott: *Clearly* in @ your "memcpy" wouldn't copy from address to address, it would be more of an object clone function.
03:38:20 <pikhq_> So, you merely need to have the same alignment as the original object.
03:39:04 <madbr> aligned to 4k pages? :D
03:39:16 <pikhq_> elliott: Only by normal standards.
03:39:19 <elliott> madbr: That's not all that uncommon, really
03:39:34 <pikhq_> @ should milk the removed abstraction layers for all it's got. :)
03:40:31 <pikhq_> (obviously @ still *has* abstraction layers, but they're nowhere near as Carved In Stone as in traditional OS design, I'd imagine.)
03:40:40 <zzo38> Does GHC allow classes with no parameters?
03:42:41 <madbr> but yeah the risc+"dataflow" cpu thing is kinda like an attempt at a CPUGPU :D
03:45:49 <madbr> might need some more parallelism for that
03:52:22 <elliott> pikhq_: Anyway, I don't know why you'd need to clone an object.
03:52:38 <elliott> pikhq_: Since my current design still has immutable objects.
03:53:23 <pikhq_> Okay, then you'd be a moron to do that.
03:53:58 <elliott> pikhq_: "@: really fast at doing something really pointless"
03:54:31 <elliott> pikhq_: Hmm, what granularity is COW done at? Page level?
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03:55:14 <pikhq_> It functions on page faults.
03:55:21 <elliott> pikhq_: Then it could still be useful. Consider a large (many megabyte) unboxed array's underlying storage.
03:55:38 <elliott> pikhq_: You want to make a copy of this storage with one word in the middle changed.
03:55:56 <elliott> pikhq_: Fiddling with the page tables means you only have to copy one page for the purpose.
03:56:03 <shachaf> I don't know whether that makes your time zone more or less mysterious.
03:56:11 <elliott> shachaf: I have an infinite supply of mysterions.
03:57:05 <elliott> pikhq_: Hmm, that actually sounds like a pretty big win.
03:57:22 <pikhq_> shachaf: His time zone is very clear, his mapping from time to consciousness status is not.
03:57:26 <elliott> pikhq_: Large immutable vectors kinda suck in GHC because you're copying all the time.
03:57:36 <elliott> pikhq_: Although, to be fair, copying even a page all the time isn't instant...
03:57:42 <elliott> But it beats copying hundreds of 'em.
03:57:58 <Sgeo|web> I have decided I will start calling everyone LamE
03:58:30 <elliott> pikhq_: Hmm, how easy is it to fuck with the page tables?
03:58:45 <elliott> I guess faster than copying ~2 MiB per page whatever the circumstances :P
03:59:05 <pikhq_> The only issue is that you need to do at least a partial TLB flush when you update them.
03:59:17 <pikhq_> Otherwise, it's just mutating a fairly simple data structure.
03:59:18 <elliott> Right. I don't really have an intuition for the constant factors involved there.
03:59:47 <pikhq_> Bit less than a cache miss, I think.
03:59:59 <pikhq_> It's significantly better if you only do a partial TLB flush.
04:00:55 <pikhq_> This is something that OSes do every time they task switch. :)
04:01:08 <pikhq_> (though, of course, @ would have no need to do it then)
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04:09:05 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
04:10:17 * Sgeo|web wants to see some mysic esotericer who manages to conclude that "programming language" is how to describe magik rituals or something
04:10:45 <Sgeo|web> Which reminds me, can someone help me with this magic spell I've been working on?
04:13:47 <madbr> hmm, i wonder if being non deterministic could help making a turing tarpit with less instructions/functionality
04:26:40 <pikhq_> It's spelled "magick", I'm pretty sure, anyways.
04:26:45 <pikhq_> Or, if you're not a moron, "magic".
04:30:17 <elliott> pikhq_: I wonder what @'s in-memory allocator will look like (i.e. that decides a physical address to put an object at when it's first allocated)...
04:30:26 <elliott> As opposed to the one that decides where on the disk to put it after a while.
04:30:55 <shachaf> By the time the first line of code in @ is written, we'll all be using memristors, man.
04:32:13 <zzo38> Is this a proper group? mempty = Equivalence (==); mappend (Equivalence f) (Equivalence g) = Equivalence $ \x y -> (x == y) /= (f x y /= g x y); minverse = id;
04:38:00 <pikhq_> shachaf: Where "disk" means "the slowest and largest memory on the system".
04:38:11 <elliott> pikhq_: No, that's the internet.
04:38:18 <shachaf> The Network is the Computer.
04:38:27 <pikhq_> Oh, well. Of course it would be.
04:38:42 <elliott> shachaf: Anyway, shaddap, I had an unwanted breakthrough about @ :P
04:38:48 <pikhq_> Except that if ISPs got off their asses it wouldn't be.
04:39:20 <pikhq_> Cable can provide more bandwidth than is on my system bus.
04:39:56 <elliott> How slow is your system bus
04:40:33 <pikhq_> Not very. Cable is just *really* underutilised.
04:45:36 <elliott> Gregor: Convince me not to spend ridiculous amounts of money on some worthless bits of paper with Ryan North's signature and drawings of T-Rex drawn to hat specifications as supplied by me
04:46:21 <shachaf> elliott: Spending money makes you a communist.
04:47:19 <shachaf> Also, Dinosaur Comics are, like, boring.
04:47:40 <Gregor> shachaf: SHUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
04:48:15 <shachaf> "Shun magic, and shun the appearance of magic! Shun everything, and then shun shunning!"
04:48:40 <elliott> shachaf: Your opinions are so wrong, SO WRONG.
04:49:03 <elliott> Dinosaur Comics is something I never have, and never will, dislike; it is the single beacon of hope that proves to me that I am essentially a good person at heart.
04:49:12 <shachaf> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYz5qnIkf20#t=051s
04:49:53 <elliott> Gregor: What's the best kind of hat.
04:50:12 <Gregor> elliott: Depends on the kind of head!
04:50:21 <Gregor> Hard to go wrong with a Trilby or Derby/Bowler.
04:50:22 <elliott> Gregor: Tyrannosaurus rex, green.
04:50:40 <Gregor> For T-Rex, I'd have to say a top hat.
04:50:51 <elliott> Gregor: I don't think you understand it literally says on the site that you can specify two kinds of hat to be doodled on a doodle of T-Rex by Ryan North???
04:50:58 <elliott> "If you chose YES, please write briefly to whom the books should be made out and the types of hats T-Rex should be wearing!"
04:51:18 <Gregor> elliott: Well, in that case, you want it to be doodlerific
04:51:20 <pikhq_> Is top hat a different kind of hat from top hat?
04:51:22 <shachaf> elliott: Speaking of comics, did you see that great comic copumpkin linked to yesterday?
04:51:54 <elliott> shachaf said singular I am betrayed.
04:51:56 <shachaf> copumpkin: I'm talking about that one that I actually read.
04:51:56 <Gregor> Soooooo, tyrolean (yessssss) and either fez or pith helmet.
04:52:11 * shachaf wonders whether to inflict it on elliott.
04:52:15 <elliott> Gregor: Fez OR pith helmet.
04:54:12 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Thu Nov 10 04:53:27
04:54:23 <shachaf> http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=31&weekday=tue
04:54:24 <elliott> My IRC client is actually on Icelandic time.
04:54:38 <shachaf> I can't say I recommend it.
04:55:02 <elliott> shachaf: Oh, not that thing again. That was all over the internet weeks ago.
04:55:16 * shachaf feels betrayed by copumpkin now.
04:55:34 <copumpkin> elliott: how about the other comics I linked to?
04:55:35 <shachaf> copumpkin: I demand the latest in unpleasant entertainment.
04:55:37 <shachaf> Well, copumpkin had some other links that I decided not to go to after seeing that one.
04:55:44 <elliott> copumpkin: I didn't see the links! It's all shachaf's fault.
04:56:02 <shachaf> elliott: It's your fault because the links were posted in that one channel all the cool people go to.
04:56:11 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep.
04:56:14 <elliott> shachaf: You mean the one cheater never shuts up in?
04:56:35 <copumpkin> elliott: well, there's this NSF[W/L] COMIC OF DOOM: http://ikuikuiku.livejournal.com/53281.html
04:57:31 <zzo38> I did find some way with barrier monads to do liftIO and even lift things in other monads too, but it isn't really a monad transformer and it requires the use of unsafeCoerce
04:57:45 <copumpkin> there's also a fairly disturbing but long http://read.mangashare.com/Uzumaki, and a much shorter http://brasscockroach.com/h4ll0w33n2007/manga/Amigara-Full/Amigara.html
04:58:26 <elliott> copumpkin: Barrier monads! Talk to zzo38 about barrier monads.
04:59:32 <shachaf> Barrier monads have such an impressive barrier that unsafeCoerce is needed to penetrate it.
04:59:42 <copumpkin> also, if you want a good, depressing (but not horror) comic, read http://www.viruscomix.com/page198.html
05:00:20 <zzo38> shachaf: O, that's why!!!
05:02:36 <pikhq_> copumpkin: Well, fucking hell.
05:03:08 <copumpkin> I can think of two very different kinds of "fucking hell" my links would give rise to
05:03:43 <copumpkin> yeah, that one's rather, um, different
05:04:13 <pikhq_> Hmm. I somehow missed that Winston Rowntree one.
05:06:58 <pikhq_> That was a bit unlike Winston Rowntree.
05:07:08 <pikhq_> I've come to expect more words than images from him. :P
05:09:15 <zzo38> newtype FrontIO = FrontIO (IO BackIO); newtype BackIO = BackIO BackIO; instance MonadIO (Barrier FrontIO BackIO) where { liftIO = fmap unsafeCoerce . yield . FrontIO . fmap unsafeCoerce; }; Although it is possible to make it do more, and probably in more generalized way.
05:10:12 <zzo38> Maybe like this: newtype Unsafe = Unsafe Unsafe; newtype FrontT m f = FrontT (Either f (m Unsafe)); newtype BackT m b = BackT Unsafe;
05:11:19 <pikhq_> copumpkin: It's a bit hard to describe Subnormality as a webcomic, really. More of a web-illustrated-essay-series.
05:11:37 <pikhq_> Why the hell do I use ":P" so much, anyways?
05:11:48 <copumpkin> cause you gotta be upbeat after that comic
05:20:59 <madbr> would be neat to have a language where all variables can only be assigned once
05:24:07 <pikhq_> That's called static single assignment form, and it's used in the IR of any decent compiler for a language relying on mutable state.
05:24:18 <zzo38> LLVM allows only one command to assign each variable, you cannot have multiple commands assigning to the same variable; but you can still loop and reassign them, and you can also read/write memory so you can assign however you want.
05:24:28 <pikhq_> It is also isomorphic to CPS.
05:26:01 <pikhq_> Intermediate Representation.
05:28:09 <madbr> what about one where you can't reassign variables on looping :D
05:28:36 <Sgeo|web> Isn't that what you just asked for?
05:28:57 <madbr> such that you need to keep growing arrays and have some kind of garbage collector
05:29:11 <pikhq_> We call *that* Haskell.
05:29:37 <pikhq_> Or, really, lambda calculus.
05:29:53 <pikhq_> Though strictly speaking you can't assign any variables in LC. :)
05:30:37 <madbr> tried some unlambda... looks a lot like string rewriting really :D
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05:31:46 <madbr> the strings don't really grow indefinitely afaik... they might grow (s combinator!) or shrink (k combinator !) as you evaluate it :o
05:32:51 <madbr> and afaik it's clear when something has become inaccessible and should get collected :o
05:34:09 <pikhq_> That would be because you have no idea how evaluation of functional programming languages works. :)
05:34:33 <madbr> don't have any experience with that no
05:45:08 <elliott> unlambda has a form of laziness
05:45:22 <elliott> so i believe you can do cyclic structures
05:46:00 <madbr> will have to look into that
05:50:17 <zzo38> If an expression in GHCi is of type (IO t) where there is no instance (Show t) is it supposed to display no error message for that? For example, return id :: IO (a -> a) displays no message.
05:58:09 <zzo38> newtype Unsafe = Unsafe Unsafe; newtype FrontT m f = FrontT (Either f (m Unsafe)); newtype BackT m b = BackT Unsafe; type BarrierT f b m t = Barrier (FrontT m f) (BackT m b) t; bliftMonad :: Functor m => m t -> BarrierT f b m t; bliftMonad = fmap unsafeCoerce . yield . FrontT . Right . fmap unsafeCoerce;
05:58:47 <zzo38> bliftBarrier :: Barrier f b t -> BarrierT f b m t; bliftBarrier = convert (FrontT . Left) unsafeCoerce; executeBT :: Monad m => BarrierT f b m t -> m (Either t (f, b -> BarrierT f b m t)); executeBT (Unit x) = return $ Left x; executeBT (Fail x) = fail x; executeBT (Barrier (FrontT (Left a)) c) = return $ Right (a, c . BackT . unsafeCoerce); executeBT (Barrier (FrontT (Right a)) c) = a >>= executeBT . c . BackT;
05:59:47 <zzo38> FrontT and BackT can be opaque types (without exporting their constructor), and Unsafe doesn't need to be exported at all, because it is only used internally.
06:00:43 <monqy> what does unsafe do
06:01:23 <zzo38> Do you mean the Unsafe type? It does nothing. It is only there for use with unsafeCoerce
06:01:31 <elliott> zzo38: are you sure Unsafe should not be Any from GHC.Exts
06:01:40 <elliott> the way you are coercing can break
06:01:53 <elliott> with Any it's guaranteed to work
06:02:24 <zzo38> elliott: Yes; I want to ask that too. Do you see any possibilities of breaking in my code?
06:03:53 <zzo38> I don't see any Any in GHC.Exts
06:04:22 <elliott> it's documented in GHC.Prim
06:04:29 <elliott> but you import it from Exts
06:06:24 <elliott> dunno, internal compiler stage bootstraping blah :)
06:06:58 <zzo38> OK, I fixed that in my program, now it uses Any instead of Unsafe
06:09:28 <zzo38> At least GHC.Prim does say to import GHC.Exts instead. And looking at the codes for GHC.Exts, it does reexport GHC.Prim
06:09:44 <zzo38> It also says that max tuple size is 62
06:31:01 <madbr> yeah ok I have a preliminary syntax for monoassignment language
06:31:18 <madbr> conditions : variable = value
06:31:57 <madbr> conditions are = != < > <= >= comparison operators, joined together with boolean AND
06:32:47 <madbr> values are calculated with math operators, kinda like C
06:33:53 <madbr> if a variable name never gets any assignment in any of the statements, it's an iterator of some kind
06:34:18 <madbr> and can be used in array assignments etc
06:35:03 <madbr> inputsize, outputsize, input[] and output[] are predefined for those functions
06:35:43 <madbr> so for instance, this partitions the input into two arrays, everything up to the first '@', and then everything else:
06:35:57 <madbr> i1c[i] input[i]!='@': i1c[i+1] = 1
06:35:57 <madbr> i1c[i] input[i]='@': pend = i+1
06:35:57 <madbr> i<pend : pr[i] = input[i]
06:35:57 <madbr> i>=pend i<inputsize : in[i-pend] = input[i]
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06:37:33 <madbr> this implements the '[' operator in brainfuck:
06:37:43 <zzo38> OK so that is how it works.
06:37:49 <madbr> ic[i] pr[ip[i]]='[' dat[i][dp[i]]=0 : ipl[i][0] = 1
06:37:49 <madbr> ipl[i][j] pr[ip[i+j]]='[' : ipl[i][j+1]=ipl[i][j]+1
06:37:49 <madbr> ipl[i][j]!=1 pr[ip[i+j]]=']' : ipl[i][j+1]=ipl[i][j]-1
06:37:49 <madbr> ipl[i][j] =1 pr[ip[i+j]]=']' : ip[i+1] = ip[i]+j+1
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06:38:13 <zzo38> Make an article for it and call it something.
06:38:29 <madbr> still a rough draft
06:38:47 <madbr> gotta make it into a nice, insane tarpit :D
06:40:04 <elliott> you'll destroy the elegance :)
06:41:29 <madbr> no idea how you'd actually implement it, though it would probably require some sort of lazy evaluation and some insane garbage collector :D
06:42:28 <zzo38> I would like to see an article of it anyways. And then it could make discussion in case it seem there ought to be changes made.
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07:30:54 <shachaf> elliott: You sure are missing out on Codensity and Yoneda and Kan extensions and all those things cool people talk about in #-blah.
07:31:02 <shachaf> Where "cool people" means edwardk, of course.
07:31:33 <elliott> Someone drag edwardk into here. (Maybe don't.)
07:36:31 <shachaf> elliott: Did you ever got those 5-grams?
07:36:36 * shachaf suspects elliott lost interest.
07:37:45 <elliott> shachaf: Lost the code with the other machine, but can and will reproduce it soon.
07:38:21 <shachaf> What happened to the other machine?
07:38:36 <Sgeo|web> He got fed up with not having a number row, clearly
07:38:49 <Sgeo|web> If that's even the same machine, or what
07:44:06 <elliott> shachaf: It decided it was tired of being a computer, turned itself off while I was using it, and then refused to turn back on again.
07:44:54 <elliott> shachaf: The hard drive is welded to the motherboard.
07:46:09 <fizzie> He got tired of it rattling around in there and took a welding torch.
07:46:15 <fizzie> (Disclaimer: not actually true.)
07:46:55 <shachaf> fizzie: Don't worry, I mentally append "(Disclaimer: not actually true.)" to everything you say.
07:47:01 <elliott> shachaf: It's one of them breathable, readable, waterproof raincoat computers.
07:47:15 <elliott> `log (Disclaimer: not actually true.)
07:47:44 <HackEgo> 2011-11-10.txt:07:46:15: <fizzie> (Disclaimer: not actually true.)
07:48:04 <olsner> elliott: I'm hired? what for?
07:48:21 <Sgeo|web> Disclaimer: I'm going to be awake very late tomorrow
07:57:38 <shachaf> U+MAD is totally a code point.
07:58:10 <shachaf> It matches the regexp /^U\+\w+$/, after all.
07:58:18 <elliott> shachaf: DevHC can't make me mad once I realised that he actually just assumes you're stupid for the first ~3 minutes of any disagreement.
08:00:31 <shachaf> u not even a little bit mad?
08:01:39 <shachaf> I propose the name "nomad" instead of "comonad".
08:02:57 <Sgeo|web> I think I tend to assume people are stupid
08:03:11 * Sgeo|web still does nlt quite understand comonads >.>
08:03:34 <elliott> Sgeo|web: They usually are, just not in the way you expect them to be. (This is based on piles and piles of evidence, i.e. a few days in #haskell).
08:05:47 <elliott> shachaf: You know, I think it's only a matter of time before DevHC sincerely asks me whether I mad.
08:05:49 <shachaf> elliott: I always mentally append "(This is based on piles and piles of evidence, i.e. a few days in #haskell)." to everything you say.
08:06:04 <elliott> shachaf: Indeed. (I am a genius).
08:06:24 <shachaf> elliott: You are a genius (this is probably wrong).?
08:07:47 <monqy> hi (Disclaimer: not actually true.)
08:09:11 <lambdabot> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug
08:09:39 <monqy> what have you done
08:10:11 * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something
08:10:18 <elliott> Sgeo|web: That literally never happens.
08:12:25 <shachaf> Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
08:12:44 <fizzie> 2010-10-12 02:00:00 <elliott> i'm probably wrong, i know nothing about this stuff :)
08:13:06 <shachaf> ddarius was wrong about something the other day!
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08:37:41 <lambdabot> Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
08:37:43 <lambdabot> Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
08:37:53 <elliott> > ((==) <*> reverse) "aba"
08:45:35 <Deewiant> > (f <*> (g :: Expr -> Expr)) x :: Expr
08:46:55 <elliott> Deewiant: SimpleReflect should suck less
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10:14:54 <oerjan> <elliott> "Didn't UnXis also get the SCO Group name? In the SCO bankruptcy filings since the sale, the entity formerly known as The SCO Group calls itself TSG. But UnXis *didn't* get the litigation against IBM. It's listed on the Excluded Assets. So who exactly is this asking to reopen the IBM litigation now? The filings say it's "The SCO GROUP, INC., by and through the Chapter 11 Trustee in Bankruptcy, Edward N
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10:15:25 <oerjan> could this mean they've split up so much there is no one left who has standing to sue? :P
10:16:11 <elliott> oerjan: it wouldn't surprise me :)
10:27:23 <ais523> oerjan: it won't stop them suing anyway
10:38:51 <oerjan> 05:45:08: <elliott> unlambda has a form of laziness
10:38:51 <oerjan> 05:45:22: <elliott> so i believe you can do cyclic structures
10:39:06 <oerjan> reference counting works for unlambda.
10:43:00 <elliott> oerjan: hm doesn't that basically mean that you have to manage your own memory after a certain point in unlambda
10:43:09 <elliott> to avoid leaks with simulation of cyclic structures
10:44:20 <oerjan> i haven't thought much about that, since unlambda isn't really a lazy language
10:44:45 <oerjan> however i've thought about lazy-k, which i think has that problem.
10:45:46 <oerjan> it has laziness, but no way to make something internally cyclic
10:47:13 <elliott> oerjan: well i think you always need cyclic structures eventually.
10:47:23 <elliott> oerjan: which means you need pointers, laziness, or a simulation of either.
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10:47:35 <elliott> All-around the music world, no a single seriously is aware of what the variation concerning a baritone and a euphonium is. I've heard reasonings of "baritones have the bell facing front" or "euphoniums expense additional." I've compiled evidence to display, with superior explanation, what the distinction among baritones and euphoniums are.
10:47:42 <elliott> Possibilities are, unless of course you've been to a brass band concert, you've never witnessed an actual British baritone. The Yamaha YBH-301 is a common British baritone. A regular British euphonium is the most widespread euphonium and looks anything like a Yamaha YEP-642.
10:48:17 <elliott> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User:LeroyButler647 this is amazing
10:49:31 <oerjan> `addquote * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something <elliott> Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. <<shachaf> Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
10:49:38 <HackEgo> 718) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something <elliott> Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. <<shachaf> Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
10:49:46 <HackEgo> *poof* * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something <elliott> Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. <<shachaf> Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
10:49:54 <oerjan> `addquote * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something <elliott> Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. <shachaf> Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
10:49:56 <HackEgo> 718) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about something <elliott> Sgeo|web: That literally never happens. <shachaf> Sgeo|web: There you go. A great example.
10:53:20 <elliott> oerjan: btw expect shachaf to delete that a few times
10:53:41 <elliott> shachaf doesn't like bots knowing he exists, I think
10:53:52 <HackEgo> 624) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 670) <shachaf> Real Tar is GNU tar. <shachaf> You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 708) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic?
10:54:47 <HackEgo> 638) <ais523> if all my Facebook friends were to visit a page, it wouldn't make any difference at all
10:54:53 <HackEgo> 45) <Aftran> It looks like my hairs are too fat. Can you help me split them?
10:55:09 <HackEgo> 269) <quintopia> who is guido van rossum <olsner> you could say he's a man who grew a beard but acquired none of the associated good properties
10:55:10 <HackEgo> 168) <fungot> Sgeo: hahaah, and i love when they announced it i dare u to press alt f4 and your house ( acts 16:31 your bible)
10:55:10 <HackEgo> 474) <Taneb> I can't afford one of those! <Taneb> A grandchild, not a laser printer
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10:57:55 <oerjan> ok _maybe_ 638 is a bit weak
11:01:34 <elliott> i suppose it's a good sign that we're running out of bad quotes
11:01:34 <HackEgo> 303) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
11:01:37 <HackEgo> 89) <Slereah> I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love
11:01:38 <elliott> now watch as these are all terrible
11:01:41 <elliott> oh good, saved by solidity
11:01:51 <HackEgo> 82) <coppro> hmm... does anyone know a nonsense game designed for the mentally handicapped involving yelling
11:01:51 <HackEgo> 605) <ais523> this strikes me as probably better than a singularity, because you can't trust a random AI, but you can probably trust olsner
11:01:52 <HackEgo> 24) <ehird> so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers
11:02:34 <elliott> 303 is perfect, 89 is great, 605 is funny, 24 is a heritage site
11:02:38 <HackEgo> *poof* <coppro> hmm... does anyone know a nonsense game designed for the mentally handicapped involving yelling
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11:04:39 <oerjan> oh come on, that was hilarious. but i guess you have to be evil to appreciate it.
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11:15:22 <elliott> oerjan: it was part of a stupid non-oerjan-quality pun that i forget
11:22:30 <HackEgo> 503) <itidus20> Game theory is not a perfect tool for analyzing video games. <itidus20> Nash failed to create a "video game theory"
11:22:34 <HackEgo> 513) <ais523> it actually worked, and faster than using Excel for rendering
11:22:45 <HackEgo> 525) <elliott> "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD."
11:22:45 <HackEgo> 444) <NihilistDandy> elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/
11:22:45 <HackEgo> 98) <fax> oklopol geez what are you doing here <oklokok> ...i don't know :< <oklokok> i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things...
11:23:11 <elliott> 503 is A+, 513 is pretty amusing, 525 i don't get and I /said/ it, 444 is not that funny, 98 is good
11:23:16 <HackEgo> *poof* <elliott> "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD."
11:24:17 <elliott> `log <elliott> "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD."
11:24:41 <HackEgo> 2011-11-10.txt:11:23:16: <HackEgo> *poof* <elliott> "Okay, got i-" "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. SCROLL FOR ME, CHILD."
11:24:54 <elliott> sometimes i feel like `log is not as useful as it could be
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11:31:18 <elliott> ais523: you deleted the page which I _specifically_ verified did not link to any spam and contained no spammy content.
11:31:42 <oerjan> here you are http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080514
11:31:51 <oerjan> oops, wrong window. well never mind.
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11:32:26 <elliott> what's up with the eyes of that guy in the last panel, eyes don't work like that
11:32:45 <atehwa> Gregor: it's okay, I can add the assignments back to the topic if/when there will be more.
11:33:01 <oerjan> foglio isn't _always_ perfect on the anatomy.
11:33:26 <atehwa> hmm, you can't use "will" with "when", but how about "will" with "if"?
11:34:21 <atehwa> so there's no natural way to use "if/when" in English if it applies to future...
11:35:01 <elliott> You could just talk in Finnish, like half the channel would understand you.
11:35:10 <elliott> Admittedly it'd be the worst half.
11:35:50 <atehwa> in Finnish, it is quite commonplace to say "jos/kun" which is the equivalent of "if/when"
11:36:01 <atehwa> but Finnish does not have a future tense
11:36:21 <oerjan> the finns _have_ no future, you see
11:36:47 <elliott> Well, the country breaks all laws of mathematics and space. Time is just another box to be ticked.
11:37:01 <atehwa> English-talking people, on the other hand, have no future when they're talking about when things happen
11:37:04 <elliott> Except... not to be ticked, because that implies time passing in an orderly fashion while you tick the box.
11:37:11 <elliott> It's another box to be made having been ticked at some point or another.
11:37:32 <atehwa> no, the thing is, we do have a past, but the present and the future are molded into one great whole.
11:38:05 <atehwa> but now, off to work ->
11:38:12 <elliott> That would explain why you guys never make any sense.
11:38:30 <atehwa> apparently, the future is the worst half of time.
11:40:09 <elliott> It occurs to me that I have no idea how far along the universe's projected lifespan we are.
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11:45:02 <atehwa> Well, it's "half" both if time is cyclic and if it's infinite in both directions, so I'm betting on us being halfway through the time
11:45:22 <atehwa> if I prove to be wrong, you can collect the wins.
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11:46:14 <elliott> Finns have arcane knowledge. Knowledge which in some sense borders on the... esoteric.
11:46:55 <atehwa> but maybe I was only talking about my time, which might be also yours.
11:47:28 <elliott> Similarly, when I say "the world", I actually just mean the small section of the world relevant to me.
11:47:35 <elliott> The world has, like, 100 people in it.
11:47:43 <elliott> Okay probably more than that.
11:47:51 <atehwa> well, my time has all the universe in it.
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11:48:05 <atehwa> It's weird, but that's now it is
11:48:22 <elliott> *sigh* Finns. Always hogging the time.
11:48:41 <elliott> It's almost as if a question you would answer yes to is "have you got the time?"!
11:49:23 <atehwa> by the way, Finnish has no articles, so most of this discussion doesn't really translate into Finnish
11:49:46 <elliott> I can't tell whether that's an advantage or a disadvantage for Finnish.
11:49:52 <atehwa> at least the ambiguities are hard to translate.
11:51:08 <atehwa> hmm... I wonder whether you're talking about economics of the language, or some lewd way our life might be better/worse because we reflect this lack of articles in our way of thinking, as suggested by Sapir-Worff hypothesis...
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11:52:25 <elliott> I'm just thinking that maybe it's better for the world if we can't have discussions like these :P
11:52:50 <elliott> Sapir-Whorf might be discredited, but it certainly helps to make things a huge pain to talk about.
11:53:28 <atehwa> so, about economics, then.
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11:53:39 <atehwa> but I forgot to start working....
11:53:47 <atehwa> so I'm going to try anew
11:53:49 <Jafet> I think programming languages demonstrate the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis
11:53:58 <Jafet> More than natural languages
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11:55:17 <atehwa> I think you're right, because different programming languages talk about different worlds, whereas the world referred to by most natural languages is quite similar
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13:45:40 <Ngevd> I see there's another bf derivative
13:48:24 <Ngevd> I think we should encourage people who make bf derivatives to then make another language
13:48:31 <Ngevd> That isn't a bf derivative
13:49:22 <Ngevd> Look at Brainlove --> Elog
13:53:02 <Ngevd> Also, today I realised that I ship Telemachus and Athene
13:57:01 <Ngevd> Also also, there is an object-oriented version of Haskell called Mondrian.
13:57:10 <Ngevd> Somebody should right a Piet implementation in it.
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13:59:03 <Ngevd> There's some spam on the wiki
13:59:11 <ais523> elliott: a bunch of Agorans just won BlogNomic, btw
14:00:52 <ais523> although we agree that an Agoran dynasty would be inappropriate
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14:31:30 <Vorpal> what with the more or less constant popularity of bf derivatives (based on number of such languages made) I think it is time to make a Funge-98 fingerprint that essentially contains some of the more popular BF-variants, such as brainfuck and boolfuck.
14:35:27 <ais523> that doesn't seem an obvious inference to me
14:36:43 <Vorpal> ais523: which part of it?
14:37:00 <ais523> the conclusion; I said that the inference was non-obvious, not the premises
14:37:40 <Vorpal> ais523: well, there are two inferences there. One is that bf derivatives are popular, the other is that it is time to make such a fingerprint
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14:41:43 <Ngevd> I'd guess ais523 was talking about the second
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14:59:27 <Ngevd> THE PROPHET HEN OF LEEDS
14:59:31 <Ngevd> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prophet_Hen_of_Leeds
15:11:55 <ais523> <YouTube comment> Thumbs up if you're tired of people thumbs uping unoriginal comments asking for thumbs up
15:12:17 <ais523> now I'm trying to figure out if the self-parody seen in YouTube comments is itself being parodied
15:12:28 <ais523> (it was the top comment, pretty obviously)
15:12:47 <ais523> Ngevd: "This poultry article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it."
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15:23:02 <fizzie> "This tree-related article is a stub."
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16:34:54 <Vorpal> fizzie: is that tree as in binary trees or trees as in the natural type?
16:35:14 <Taneb> Tree as in Family tree
16:35:24 -!- ive has joined.
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16:54:51 <elliott> "there are only a few copies of my new book left; if you want one for christmas, order now :o"
16:55:52 <elliott> Gregor: But it's like 30 quid for some awesome sketches on some paper that will probably never be used for non-pimping purposes :'(
16:56:04 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:56:29 <Gregor> elliott: DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIT
16:56:42 <elliott> Gregor: It'd probably be cheaper to fly over to America and meet Ryan North in person and ask him for hat-sketches!
16:56:50 <elliott> PRETTY SURE THAT WOULD COST LESS THAN 30 POUNDS
16:58:08 <elliott> Not only is Canada on the American continent, but it's TOTALLY the 52nd state.
16:58:20 <Gregor> Hmm ... what's the 51st :P
16:58:20 <elliott> (I made a lie! There's no American continent! That's also a lie! There's TWO!)
16:58:35 <elliott> By which I mean, I briefly forgot how many states there are.
16:59:03 <elliott> Gregor: Wait, I have the perfect plan. You could give me 30 pounds, and I could use it to buy the Dinosaur Comic books. ??? Perfect???
16:59:04 <zzo38> Canada is not part of the United States. Even though Canada is part of America.
17:01:11 <quintopia> which we can tell by the fact that it is north of america
17:01:52 <zzo38> I realized the definition I have for barrier transform is slightly wrong due to: a = bliftMonad getLine; b = bliftMonad (return 42) :: BarrierT f b IO Int; c = case (b, a) of { (Barrier x y, Barrier z _) -> Barrier z y; }; main = executeBT (c >>= bliftMonad . print);
17:02:04 <elliott> Can you throw money at Amazon to use for later purchases? My mind is considering this as a very viable solution to my debit card's pending expiry.
17:02:12 <elliott> You know, like putting money into PayPal. You can do that right? Help?
17:02:30 <Gregor> elliott: You can put money into PayPal, yes. You could also buy an Amazon gift card if you just want Amazon.
17:02:44 <elliott> Gregor: Yes, I can put money into PayPal, but Amazon sure as hell don't accept PayPal :P
17:02:58 <Gregor> elliott: You can put money into PayPal and get a PayPal debit card :P
17:03:15 <elliott> Gregor: I could also just... get a new card.
17:03:33 <elliott> Hmm, I wonder if I could somehow buy Amazon gift cards with PayPal. Are there third-party resellers?
17:03:47 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:04:05 <elliott> There are! They even look... VAGUELY legitimate.
17:04:49 <elliott> Looks like they only want to sell me the physical form though.
17:05:04 <zzo38> Now I have to think of how to fix the problem. Maybe it should just be done by making BarrierT an opaque newtype, but are there any other ways?
17:06:30 <elliott> Gregor: Basically I want all the convenience of not having to pre-allocate my money without the annoying obstacle of having to go through some kind of banking institution to do that, despite that being a very large part of their purpose :P
17:06:46 <Gregor> PayPal is a banking institution.
17:07:00 <elliott> Gregor: Exactly! One that Amazon doesn't accept. Wow fuck Amazon.
17:07:09 <elliott> Wait, do Amazon accept Amazon Payments? I'm not joking.
17:07:15 <elliott> Maybe I could somehow feed PayPal funds into that.
17:07:21 <zzo38> elliott: By working in cash you avoid those problems.
17:07:40 <elliott> zzo38: s/avoid those problems/replace those problems with completely different, far more stupid, avoidable, and irritating ones/
17:07:42 <Gregor> elliott: You can bundle up your cash carefully, attach it to an email, and send it to Amazon.
17:07:47 <zzo38> But then it is the other problem in case of paying something by computer.
17:07:58 <elliott> zzo38: For instance, to purchase something online I would have to feed notes into my floppy drive.
17:08:01 -!- fizzie has joined.
17:08:02 <elliott> Unfortunately I haven't got one.
17:08:11 <elliott> Gregor: I just told you I haven't got a floppy drive!
17:08:28 * elliott is certain this is how e-commerce works.
17:08:51 <zzo38> Is it possible to purchase Amazon gift cards at stores? If so, that solves it. Or, credit card company's gift cards? Maybe that will work.
17:09:27 <elliott> Gregor: Oh my god, there are 10 pages of designs for Amazon email gift certificates.
17:09:30 <elliott> I don't want to live in this world.
17:09:52 <zzo38> Is there a plain text design?
17:10:31 <zzo38> Then they have hundreds and yet they forgot a few!
17:11:26 <Vorpal> amusing.... Apparently the actual release version of Skyrim hit torrent sites one day before the official launch.
17:12:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:12:20 <elliott> s/actual release/Golden Master/ we are civilised, there are terms!
17:13:13 <Vorpal> elliott: not quite. You know that steam allows you to download like a day or two before release but it is only decrypted on the release day?
17:13:24 <Vorpal> well, somehow someone managed to decrypt it in advance
17:13:49 <Vorpal> elliott: and I'm not sure the concept "golden master" makes sense for steam :P
17:14:10 <elliott> The Golden Master is whatever the publisher uploads :P
17:15:11 <elliott> Wow, this computer REALLY hates Flash for some reason.
17:15:19 <elliott> It just starts lagging like shit whenever Flash stuff is going on in the background.
17:15:26 <elliott> No CPU pegging or anything.
17:15:30 <elliott> Killing the plugin fixes it.
17:15:36 <Vorpal> btw some more games were added to the voxatron humble bundle
17:16:21 <elliott> As I said elsewhere: Humble Bundle's business strategy is basically Katamari for games.
17:16:34 <elliott> The ball of cash just keeps getting bigger and picking up more games.
17:17:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:17:44 <elliott> Ehh, I'll just preallocate Amazon cash beforehand. No harm in buying more gift-certificate money than I need, since I'll undoubtedly purchase from Amazon in the future.
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17:37:05 <Vorpal> elliott: what do you plan to buy on Amazon?
17:37:18 <elliott> Vorpal: Drugs. Looooads of illegal drugs.
17:40:03 -!- Ngevd has joined.
17:50:34 <CakeProphet> elliott: http://www.everyherbal.com/herbalfire/salvia-divinorum-sampler-pack-p-314.html
17:50:51 <CakeProphet> it's a hallucinogenic plant of the mint family. also you can buy it online.
17:51:43 <CakeProphet> elliott: well amazon doesn't /have/ semi-illegal drugs.
17:52:31 -!- sllide has joined.
17:52:49 <elliott> I WANT ALL THE DRUGS AMAZON HAS TO OFFER, CAKEPROPHET.
17:52:56 <CakeProphet> it's guaranteed 5 minutes of bad trip. just sayin'
17:53:14 <elliott> Yesssssssss 5 minutes of SEMI-ILLEGAL AMAZON-PURCHASED bad trip
17:55:33 <CakeProphet> elliott: hmmm amazon apparently doesn't have psilocybe mushroom spores
17:55:46 <elliott> Amazon, that's so lame of you. :(
17:56:07 <CakeProphet> despite the grown mushroom caps themselves being illegal.
17:57:01 <CakeProphet> elliott: but they do have substrates specifically tailors for growing psilocybe spores.
17:57:17 <elliott> You are on SO many watchlists right now.
17:59:16 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: uh, are you referencing the Haskell library, just regular mint, or actually salvia divinorum?
17:59:21 <Ngevd> elliott, I don't want to see you high.
17:59:52 <elliott> Ngevd: I think it is possibly the only way the Elliott IRC Experience could reach a new level of intensity. What I'm saying is, not only would I get banned, the whole UNIVERSE would get banned.
18:00:12 <elliott> CakeProphet: You're dyslexic.
18:02:42 * CakeProphet should make a web app framework called Psilocybe
18:03:46 -!- Darth_Cliche has joined.
18:04:03 <elliott> announcing my new haskell webframe work " poop"
18:04:29 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> <CakeProphet> elliott: anyway you don't want salvia. <-- btw, salvia is the Swedish word for the plant "sage".
18:05:07 <Vorpal> seels it is "Salvia officinalis" in Latin
18:05:08 <CakeProphet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_officinalis "common sage"
18:05:21 <Vorpal> CakeProphet: beat you to that
18:05:22 <elliott> Vorpal: Isn't salvia-the-drug just a type of sage.
18:05:33 <Vorpal> elliott: I have no idea
18:05:35 <CakeProphet> elliott: type of mint. is that the same thing?
18:05:50 * Sgeo|web is almost ashamed he knows of 4chan's sage stuff
18:06:15 <CakeProphet> elliott: it smells kind of like tea leaves to me.
18:06:21 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:06:35 <elliott> (It's funny because sage doesn't even originate from 4chan anyway.)
18:06:40 <elliott> (Assuming shunning is funny.)
18:06:47 <elliott> (It's not funny, we're awful people.)
18:06:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, trying to run mplayer and Flash at the same time, mplayer spits out, amongst other things, "[AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:1293:(snd_pcm_hw_open) open '/dev/snd/pcmC0D0p' failed (-16): Device or resource busy
18:06:48 <Phantom_Hoover> [AO_ALSA] Playback open error: Device or resource busy
18:06:52 <CakeProphet> (implying elliott assumes shunning is funny)
18:07:10 <CakeProphet> (implying tautology club is tautology club)
18:07:36 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover: I guess you have no hardware mixer and no mixer like arts, esd, pulseaudio, whatever
18:07:47 <CakeProphet> elliott: what's interesting about salvia divinorum is that no other hallucinogen is of the same chemical nature.
18:07:48 <elliott> Vorpal: Isn't that what dmix is for?
18:07:50 <Vorpal> or mplayer just isn't using that
18:07:54 <Vorpal> elliott: sure, dmix too
18:07:55 <CakeProphet> it's the only known hallucinogen of its kind.
18:08:03 <elliott> Vorpal: I would expect that to be enabled out-of-the-box.
18:08:03 <CakeProphet> whereas all of the others are broadly classified into two categories.
18:08:29 <Sgeo|web> Where does sage originate from?
18:08:39 <Vorpal> elliott: depends on distro
18:08:51 <Vorpal> elliott: I know for sure it isn't on arch linux.
18:08:56 -!- derdon has joined.
18:09:07 <elliott> Vorpal: What's doing my mixing then
18:09:19 <Vorpal> elliott: probably pulse audio?
18:09:24 <elliott> Vorpal: I didn't install Pulse.
18:09:35 <Vorpal> elliott: or it is enabled by default on more modern installs
18:09:39 <Vorpal> it wasn't on mine I know
18:11:14 <CakeProphet> 'A survey of salvia users found that 38% described the effects as unique in comparison to other methods of altering consciousness. 23% said the effects were like yoga, meditation or trance.'
18:11:19 <CakeProphet> what the hell kind of yoga are these people doing.
18:11:34 <elliott> It's like yoga but with a SKULL.
18:11:57 <CakeProphet> I've never heard anyone say "yoga is great! it feels like you're melting into the floor!"
18:12:25 <elliott> It's like you've never even DONE yoga.
18:20:45 <elliott> Everyone is just so boring without me.
18:21:21 <fizzie> Coincidentally they use the Latin name ("salvia") also as the Finnish name of the plant. Perhaps because it doesn't really sound very foreign.
18:21:59 <CakeProphet> elliott: http://www.deuceofclubs.com/amusive/easap036.htm I'm happy ereryday. because you make me fun, don't worry let's smile
18:22:29 -!- Ngevd has joined.
18:23:06 <fizzie> (And "ryytisalvia" for salvia officinalis in particular, assumedly stolen from Swedish "kryddsalvia".)
18:25:05 <Ngevd> I can find very few references to the Mondrian programming language
18:25:20 <Ngevd> There appear to have been at least two
18:26:05 <fizzie> There's the one the Piet page mentions, but the link there is dead.
18:26:14 <Ngevd> There's one on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_(programming_language)#Related_languages
18:27:34 <Ngevd> Possibly http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parsec/3.0.0/doc/html/Text-Parsec-Language.html
18:27:46 <fizzie> "You may have landed on this page from following a link for Mondrian. This was a project originally started by Erik Meijer which then moved to New Zealand. Mondrian was a functional language specifically designed to inter-operate with other languages in an OO environment and versions existed for the JVM and CLI. Mondrian also supported ASP.NET, allowing you to embed functional language code in web pages along with C# code. The project predates our in-house Hask
18:27:46 <fizzie> ell work, has not been kept up-to-date with CLI releases, and we no longer make it available."
18:27:57 <fizzie> (From http://kahu.zoot.net.nz/)
18:30:13 * elliott seriously considers writing a web interface to fizzie.
18:30:35 <fizzie> I wonder if it is actually the same thing the Piet page is talking about, since the dude -- at http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/emeijer/ErikMeijer.html -- links to the same dead place as the Piet page.
18:30:53 <Ngevd> This is vaguely creepy
18:31:12 <elliott> fizzie: IIRC DMM complained that Mondrian was some kind of boring OO thing, so the description kinda fits.
18:31:31 <elliott> (Missing the functional aspect is understandable if a langauge is targeting the JVM and CLI.)
18:31:48 <elliott> fizzie: To add to the intrigue, Parsec comes with a language definition for "Mondrian".
18:31:50 <fizzie> There are some papers on the dude's page.
18:31:57 <elliott> I suspect it's the Haskell Mondrian,t hough.
18:32:03 <elliott> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/parsec/3.1.2/doc/html/src/Text-Parsec-Language.html
18:32:11 <elliott> { reservedNames = [ "case", "class", "default", "extends"
18:32:11 <elliott> , "import", "in", "let", "new", "of", "package"
18:32:33 <fizzie> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/emeijer/Papers/Mondrian.pdf is probably most relevant; at least 'class' is there.
18:32:55 <elliott> Where have I heard of Erik Meijer before?
18:33:08 <elliott> Ohh, I think he's (co-)written a lot of Haskell papers.
18:33:41 <fizzie> At least a couple Haskell Workshop and ICFP ones, yes.
18:34:08 <fizzie> Or maybe you recall him from the "XML Support in VB9" paper, that sounds so relevant to your interests.
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18:37:47 <fizzie> A cautionary tale from his page: "A few versions ago, I was know as "the banana man" because of my work on Squiggol and applying category theory to structure functional programs."
18:38:12 <elliott> *Oh.* He's the bananas, lenses and barbed wire guy.
18:38:55 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez wc y
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18:41:47 <elliott> fizzie: sausages in the 18th century
18:41:47 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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18:43:30 * Sgeo|web is easily amused by 4chan.org/flash
18:44:17 <elliott> This channel is the most SFW.
18:44:21 <Phantom_Hoover> The words 'no', 'shit' and 'Sherlock' all come to mind.
18:44:38 <elliott> No Sherlock shit? Why a ban on specifically Sherlock's feces?
18:45:57 -!- Darth_Cliche has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:46:43 <Sgeo|web> Clearly, v8 is the latest version of Flash player
18:46:50 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
18:47:11 <elliott> fizzie: http://web.archive.org/web/20031202023619im_/http://www.research.microsoft.com/~emeijer/Media/panel.gif
19:03:44 <Gregor> OK, Hackiki now /officially/ has no users.
19:09:42 <olsner> oh crap, I've been highlighted in #esoteric again
19:11:10 <HackEgo> 605) <Phantom_Hoover> It is like the Holocaust but with Nazis.
19:11:34 <olsner> oh, it must've gotten renumbered in all the deletion that happened since that log line
19:13:40 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:14:00 <elliott> http://hackiki.org/wiki/ ;; it disappointingly still exists???
19:14:16 -!- Zuu has joined.
19:14:18 -!- sebbu3 has changed nick to sebbu.
19:17:05 <shachaf> elliott: Maybe I just don't like the bot highlighting my name.
19:25:42 -!- oerjan has joined.
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19:27:16 -!- Gregor has joined.
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19:28:06 <elliott> Gregor: Explain the flood and also what you said :P
19:28:21 <elliott> * Gregor has quit (Excess Flood)
19:28:40 <Gregor> Not sure why I got kicked.
19:28:56 <elliott> <Gregor> OK, Hackiki now /officially/ has no users.
19:28:58 <Gregor> But anyway, the one known user of Hackiki other than myself is now a known non-user of Hackiki :P
19:29:31 <elliott> Gregor: Did they stop because of your SECURITY SPLOIT? :P
19:29:39 <elliott> (People other than you used Hackiki?)
19:29:43 <elliott> (Well, "person", I guess.)
19:29:46 <elliott> (Person other than you used Hackiki?)
19:29:50 <Ngevd> I never really got Hackiki
19:30:23 <Gregor> elliott: He hosted a Wiki for a Unix UG on Hackiki, but through me, and was paying me for it. After not using it for two years, he decided to stop.
19:31:02 <elliott> Gregor: Shoulda got him on a long-term contract.
19:32:10 -!- Guest63524 has changed nick to Slereah.
19:34:50 <oerjan> <elliott> Ngevd: I think it is possibly the only way the Elliott IRC Experience could reach a new level of intensity. What I'm saying is, not only would I get banned, the whole UNIVERSE would get banned.
19:34:58 <oerjan> clearly you misspelled insanity.
19:35:06 <HackEgo> 190) <fungot> elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 193) <fungot> elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 202) <Gregor> elliott: My university has
19:35:30 -!- useless-fungot has joined.
19:35:37 <HackEgo> 211) <elliott> Vorpal loves the sodomy. <Vorpal> elliott, sure why not \ 212) <elliott> [...] ALWAYS OPEN TO TRYING NEW THINGS. \ 213) <elliott> So it's not exactly trivial. [Later about same thing] <elliott> It's a trivial C program :P \ 220) * pikhq sticks several thousand kg m^2/A s^3 through elliot <elliott> pikhq:
19:35:44 <shachaf> I don't think you can annoy elliott by pinging his name in #esoteric, because he's always in here anyway.
19:35:48 <HackEgo> *poof* <elliott> [...] ALWAYS OPEN TO TRYING NEW THINGS.
19:35:52 <elliott> Vorpal just added that because of the sodomy one.
19:36:41 <oerjan> fungot has gone to a secret meeting of secret bot overlords
19:37:19 <Ngevd> Like friendship mouse!
19:37:21 -!- kmc has joined.
19:37:32 <Gregor> kmc: Kentucky Mutilated Chicken
19:37:43 <ais523> ^ul (this isn't part of the state, right?)S
19:37:54 <ais523> hmm, that is indeed pretty useless
19:38:02 <olsner> Gregor: Keegan McSomething iirc
19:38:06 <ais523> ]ul (this isn't part of the state, right?)S
19:39:22 <ais523> hmm, it still remembers its ignore list
19:39:48 <elliott> are you sure that's not HackEgo's bad feature
19:40:06 -!- fungot has joined.
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19:40:10 <fungot> Ngevd: memory is automatically freed when the routine returns, no more.
19:40:18 <Ngevd> You have killed this imposter!
19:40:24 <Ngevd> But he was our friend!
19:40:32 -!- tiffany has joined.
19:40:43 <Ngevd> He was mouse-like in friendliness!
19:40:46 <Ngevd> And you killed him!
19:40:51 <elliott> revive useless-fungot fizzie :'(
19:40:51 <fungot> elliott: i do get to that part
19:40:59 <oerjan> Ngevd: it just freed its memory, as it said
19:41:14 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa sms speeches ss wp youtube
19:41:17 <fizzie> I had nothing to do with any useless fungots. :/ :/ :\
19:41:17 <fungot> fizzie: sounds great. what kind of comments were you looking for? ' l' is the ' title' sed -e ' s//')" /usr/ bin/ fnord
19:41:59 <Ngevd> THEORY: useless-fungot was Deewieant.
19:41:59 <fungot> Ngevd: undefined method `empty' for :array fnord fnord fnord return fnord fnord y fnord z) ( 5 t))))(if ( i 20)(cons y ( g ( fnord,
19:42:35 <elliott> fizzie: Thence whom htv.fi????
19:42:42 <fizzie> I suggest you use the IP-ADDRESS MATCHING MACHINE to corraboramorate that theory.
19:43:02 <elliott> I don't HAVE one of those.
19:43:23 <elliott> `run grep cs27125254.pp.htv.fi /var/logs/_esoteric/????-??-??-raw.txt
19:43:24 <ais523> elliott: fizzie's right, /whowas useless-fungot matches /whois Deewiant
19:43:24 <fungot> ais523: i'm getting lowest ping delay ever, fnord ms to the nearest mark.
19:43:25 <HackEgo> grep: /var/logs/_esoteric/????-??-??-raw.txt: No such file or directory
19:43:43 <ais523> I should have run a really complex UL program on useless-fungot
19:43:44 <fungot> ais523: cfunge use no external libraries that rely on mutation with precisely mutative operations. linear-update operations may be fnord, just not doing a dns lookup :p
19:43:55 <Ngevd> My THEORY was /right/?
19:44:01 <Ngevd> fungot, what do you make of this?
19:44:01 <fungot> Ngevd: no! type safety really means safety. c++ does not belong to the set
19:44:24 <fizzie> The way the MACHINE works, you set up these numbered balls to resemble IP addresses, and then the balls go to the large drum, and then it rotates, and then you get 7 matching numbers and win millions. Plus three extra numbers.
19:45:30 <Ngevd> What if it uses IPv6!?
19:45:39 <fizzie> Then you just put in more balls.
19:46:30 <Ngevd> Mind you, that takes balls to pull off
19:46:53 <oerjan> and a drum the size of half of earth
19:47:44 <Ngevd> Is it just me, or has the art for Freefall suddenly improved?
19:48:09 <fizzie> Also there has not been a "HTV" (for "Helsinki TeleVisio") in quite a while; it's been "Welho" since 2006, and I think it's "DNA Welho" now that Sanoma sold the cable TV/Internet business to DNA.
19:48:55 <elliott> fizzie: Oh, I assumed it was like... Helsinki Technology Vuniversityof.
19:49:50 -!- ive has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
19:50:08 <fizzie> Those are the old "hut.fi" names.
19:50:10 <elliott> They should do a Rubik's cube where you have to assemble it into the entire 16-bit RGB colour space.
19:50:40 -!- fizziew has joined.
19:50:52 <elliott> fizziew: GET ON THE MATHEMATICS
19:50:53 <ais523> elliott: YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ABBREVIATE IT!
19:50:59 <elliott> ais523: ?????????????/////////
19:51:11 <ais523> adjudicated blind collaborative…
19:51:14 <ais523> I forget where it goes from there
19:51:21 <Ngevd> oerjan, dunno, it just seems to have
19:51:33 <Ngevd> Something esolang factory
19:51:40 <oerjan> well my eyes don't really notice anything...
19:51:50 <fizziew> Deewiant: I accidentally joined #esoteric of IRCnet first. There was a single person on the channel, and the topic said something about esoteric philosophy.
19:52:12 <elliott> FINALLY, somewhere to point people!
19:52:39 <fizziew> Deewiant: No, I /part'd in a huff.
19:52:41 <Ngevd> To me, there are only three IRC channels on one server
19:52:52 <Ngevd> #esoteric, #esoteric-minecraft, and #darths
19:52:53 <ais523> fizziew: the idea is that we can tell people to go there if they're coming here for the wrong esoteric
19:53:02 <elliott> fizziew: Why can't I connect to irc.ircnet.org
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19:53:23 <elliott> Am I insufficiently European
19:53:41 <Deewiant> elliott: http://irc.tu-ilmenau.de/all_servers/
19:53:56 <oerjan> your europeanness is exceedlingly brittle
19:54:15 <fizzie> ix.irc.at has the most accurate description.
19:54:26 <Ngevd> I am more European than most Brits.
19:54:27 <elliott> Deewiant: I like how the form's broken
19:54:39 <ais523> elliott: ircnet doesn't have a central send-to-random-server
19:54:52 <elliott> * Topic for #esoteric is: EsotericPhilosopher.com - Esoteric Philosophy
19:54:52 <elliott> * Topic for #esoteric set by Cocytus!~Cocytus@c-76-19-169-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net at Wed Nov 9 17:48:40 2011
19:54:52 <elliott> * Users on #esoteric: elliott @Cocytus
19:55:12 <elliott> Let's make friends with him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait no he's probably awful.
19:55:18 <elliott> I know what I'm going to do.
19:55:22 <elliott> I'm going to start talking about esolangs in there.
19:55:32 <fizzie> He's going to be all confused how popular the channel suddenly is.
19:56:31 <elliott> fizzie: My #esoteric tab went red.
19:56:34 <elliott> That means there's messages.
19:56:36 <elliott> I'm too embarrassed to look.
19:56:45 <elliott> SOMEONE JOIN ME FOR SUPPORT
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19:56:56 <fizzie> Quite many (at least the .fi) IRCnet servers only allow "local" (for some values of) people; ideally you'd just connect to the server of your university/ISP.
19:56:57 <Ngevd> Now that channel is mainly Hexhamers
19:57:12 <elliott> fizzie: I just connected to xs4all's.
19:57:15 <elliott> It's, you know, access for all.
19:57:34 <Deewiant> My ISP's server is on the other side of the country and my university's sucks so I use fizzie's ISP's
19:57:52 <fizzie> Deewiant: Oh, Nebula has generic-enough I:lines for that?
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19:58:14 <fizzie> Also why you be dissin' irc.cs.hut.fi, it's not that bad.
19:58:26 <Deewiant> I don't know what an I:line is but the connection works so I guess so
19:58:30 <Deewiant> It's in permanent split-mode :-P
19:59:05 <elliott> Deewiant: I think I:lines are IP whitelists or something.
19:59:08 <elliott> To keep the foreigners out.
19:59:22 <Deewiant> Yes, that would've been my guess
19:59:40 <fizzie> "/stats I" -- I see there's a 0.0.0.0/0 catch-all line nowadays.
19:59:51 <elliott> Where are the haps on IRCNet, I want to see people talk Finnish
20:00:30 <fizzie> You could consider #linux.fi, I've been banned from there once or twice, for associating with the wrong sort of people.
20:00:56 <Deewiant> fizzie: I do see *@*.pp.*.fi, though
20:01:16 <elliott> fizzie: The "wrong sort of people"?
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20:01:24 <elliott> * Cannot join #linux.fi (Channel is invite only).
20:01:28 <Ngevd> elliott, you know, Swedes
20:01:29 <Deewiant> fizzie: Oh, crap, I'm actually on cs.hut.fi, darn
20:01:44 <Deewiant> I have been on nebula though :-P
20:01:56 <elliott> * [fizzie] @!4QPSPt934400 @#irtie @#getnolife #douglasadams #!/usr/bin/ff
20:02:01 <fizzie> 22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite 246*!*@*
20:02:01 <fizzie> 22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite *!*@*.fi
20:02:06 <elliott> fizzie: Wasn't !4QPSPt934400 the one I invaded last time? :p
20:02:08 <fizzie> Yeah, you need to be Finnish enough.
20:02:29 <Vorpal> <fizzie> 22:01 [ircnet] -!- #linux.fi: invite 246*!*@* <-- uh
20:02:44 <Vorpal> fizzie: how does that invite even make sense
20:02:46 <fizziew> Vorpal: That's for the autogenerated nicknames.
20:03:04 <fizziew> Vorpal: They get the server number prefix thingie-thingie, 246* matches Finland.
20:03:16 <fizziew> Vorpal: For the current IRCnet "handle nick collisions by renaming" thing.
20:03:52 <fizzie> elliott: Actually it was !4OOW7t934400 at that time; it managed to become empty and therefore got a new random ID generated.
20:04:04 <elliott> fizziew: Can I forge a .fi hostname easily? I want to join the #linux.fi gang.
20:04:13 <elliott> Surely IRCnet is lawless enough for that.
20:04:29 <elliott> I just need to find a really hippie server with a /changehost command.
20:04:55 <fizzie> I'm not sure whether IRCnet servers generally do a forward-lookup check. It could be they just trust reverse DNS as-is.
20:05:36 <elliott> fizzie: I doubt I control my reverse DNS :P
20:05:39 <fizzie> In which case you'd need to just fake that.
20:05:46 <elliott> fizzie: It would be great if they used the old USER syntax and believed the hostname you gave it.
20:06:19 <fizzie> Well, no, but you could control it for e.g. a Hurricane Electric and/or SixXS IPv6 tunnel or whatever. (Though SixXS would then ban you for "DNS spam".)
20:07:02 <fizzie> I really wouldn't say #linux.fi would be worth it.
20:07:12 <fizzie> You can join an empty channel and ban yourself to get the same experience.
20:07:41 <elliott> Deewiant: So how big would that Cube be
20:09:03 <Vorpal> elliott: 128x128x128 I thought?
20:09:19 <elliott> <elliott> They should do a Rubik's cube where you have to assemble it into the entire 16-bit RGB colour space.
20:09:19 <elliott> <elliott> How big would that be?
20:09:20 <elliott> <elliott> You know, #ABCDEF.
20:09:27 <elliott> How big physically, I mean :P
20:09:44 <elliott> Vorpal: Nah, you can't see the colours on the inside, obviously
20:09:55 <elliott> If you rotate the result around fully, you should see every 24-bit RGB colour
20:11:11 <fizzie> Vorpal: Also #getnolife was a sort of a splinter group of "Irti Elämästä ry"; you can try to Googlelate http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irti_El%C3%A4m%C3%A4st%C3%A4 though I doubt it will much help. Both are defunct now.
20:11:22 <Vorpal> elliott: anyway that was a a322 reference
20:11:46 <elliott> fizzie: Boredom, and epäviileyden nörttiyden promotion.
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20:12:05 <elliott> Rautio, May Day: Nerd culture increases -> (and destruction?) [_ Protu (Journal) . 2005 # 2. Prometheus Camp Association. Subsequent 26/11/2009.
20:12:11 <elliott> Sounds like something fungot would say.
20:12:11 <fungot> elliott: unlambda is weird
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20:12:49 <fizzie> elliott: "The rise (and fall?) of nerd culture" would be a more apt translation of the title.
20:13:06 <elliott> I prefer "Nerd culture increases -> (and dsetuction?) [_".
20:15:37 <fizzie> elliott: The original organization organized a "nerd attack" to the Helsinki main railway station in 1999; the main thing I recall from that was that they IRCed from inside the storage lockers of the railway station -- cf. http://www.protu.fi/lehti/lehti2-05/kuvat/nortit_lokeroissa_iso.jpg
20:15:49 <fizzie> Made the "main" newspapers and all.
20:15:50 <elliott> fizzie: Why am I not this cool???
20:16:28 <fizzie> Then it all sort of fizzled out pretty soon.
20:16:58 <Ngevd> elliott, I wasn't lying
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20:19:38 <elliott> oerjan: have I mentioned how I think (safeWriteIORef :: IORef a -> a -> b -> b) is safe?
20:19:49 <elliott> safeWriteIORef ref v a = unsafePerformIO (writeIORef ref v >> return a)
20:20:36 <fizzie> Some people were annoyed when the social side (meetings and all that) was starting to dominate the organization; there was a (democratic) coup, and then the newly elected government disbanded the organization and started the "People's Democratic Irti Elämästä", while the people who liked being social started "Getnolife". I don't think either one of the new organizations survived for so very long.
20:20:52 <elliott> Deewiant: Returning what, v?
20:20:57 <fizzie> I wasn't ever a member of any of these, just sort of watched from the sidelines.
20:21:06 <elliott> Deewiant: (Don't say seq, you need pseq)
20:21:18 <fizzie> Incidentally, the irtie folks were in fact the "wrong people" associating with whom got me banned from #linux.fi.
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20:22:05 <elliott> fizzie: Why is Finnish culture so fucking interesting :(
20:22:06 <Deewiant> elliott: I was going to say that you don't need the generality for anything but I guess it's easier than using pseq
20:22:18 <elliott> Deewiant: pseq isn't standard
20:22:27 <fizzie> I'm not sure "culture" is the right word here, and this was all long time ago, there's nothing interesting going on in modern-day Finland.
20:22:31 <Deewiant> elliott: unsafePerformIO and writeIORef are?
20:22:39 <elliott> Deewiant: unsafePerformIO is in Haskell 2010
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20:22:58 <elliott> Hmm, no, surprisingly enough
20:23:48 <elliott> I guess pseq a b = unsafePerformIO (a `seq` return b) is a portable pseq :)
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20:26:38 <Cocytus> lol i was going to refer you to this room. but i had a feeling you were already here.
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20:28:52 <elliott> you've been here before haven't you :P
20:28:58 <elliott> our beautiful prank ruined forever :'(
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20:33:24 <ais523> CakeProphet: "you" = ?
20:34:44 <elliott> Weak (MVar (HashMap a (Weak b)))
20:35:53 <ais523> I'm not very good at admiring type beauty
20:36:04 <elliott> ais523: does it help if you know that Weak is a weak pointer?
20:36:07 <elliott> and MVar a mutable reference?
20:36:18 <ais523> which language is this?
20:36:27 <ais523> it, umm, makes it worse
20:36:35 <elliott> worse in a /beautiful/ way
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20:43:46 <Ngevd> Remember when we made ABCDEF...G?
20:44:18 <oerjan> <elliott> you've been here before haven't you :P <-- i thought the nick looked familiar
20:44:37 <elliott> oerjan: insufficient horror at the safety of safeWriteIORef
20:45:29 <shachaf> elliott: Ooh, I'm Finnish!
20:45:38 * shachaf knows little of Finnish culture, though. :-(
20:45:48 <oerjan> elliott: i don't understand why that would be considered safe...
20:45:50 <elliott> shachaf: It's based around IRC and the demoscene.
20:45:58 <elliott> oerjan: it has no observable side-effects outside of IO
20:46:10 <shachaf> elliott: I don't think that's hwo Finnish culture works...
20:46:33 <elliott> oerjan: and, of course, with things like StableNames and so on, we find it perfectly acceptable to be able to observe more about the evaluation of pure expressions than the semantics allow, so long as it is in IO
20:46:45 <elliott> Deewiant: BTW, I think Data.IORef is standard, since you can implement it in terms of the FFI
20:46:59 <elliott> I guess only for Storable types
20:47:18 <elliott> You can do it in terms of mutable arrays methinks
20:47:28 <Ngevd> Finnish culture has no observable side-effects outside of IO!?
20:48:26 <oerjan> Ngevd: it's the truth!
20:48:46 <oerjan> the finns are a pure people
20:51:01 <oerjan> elliott: iirc that's how the reflection package worked
20:51:26 <Ngevd> I see philosophy guy caught onto us
20:51:40 <elliott> oerjan: I think I have a workable implementation :)
20:51:42 <elliott> newtype IORef a = IORef (ForeignPtr (StablePtr a))
20:51:51 * elliott briefly wonders why he's implementing portable IORefs
20:52:48 <olsner> briefly? what made you stop wondering?
20:52:58 <oerjan> to maintain the illusion that there will ever be a non-ghc-based full haskell implementation again
20:54:01 <oerjan> ghc is like this beast that just keeps growing type tentacles
20:55:51 <oerjan> some time in the next 2-3 years someone (perhaps named kiselyov) will discover that ghc's type system has grown to the point of supporting a full embedded dependent type system by accident
20:56:01 <Ngevd> Trivia: all natural numbers are one less than another natural number
20:56:01 <Ngevd> This works backwards almost all the time
20:58:55 <elliott> Deewiant: oerjan: http://sprunge.us/Qcjg
20:59:01 <elliott> Therefore Data.IORef is standard, Q.E.D.
20:59:39 <elliott> foreign import ccall "wrapper"
20:59:39 <elliott> mkFinalizer :: (Ptr a -> IO ()) -> IO (FunPtr (Ptr a -> IO ()))
20:59:49 <elliott> http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch8.html
21:01:16 <elliott> ghc: error: a C finalizer called back into Haskell.
21:01:16 <elliott> This was previously allowed, but is disallowed in GHC 6.10.2 and later.
21:01:16 <elliott> To create finalizers that may call back into Haskell, use
21:01:16 <elliott> Foreign.Concurrent.newForeignPtr instead of Foreign.newForeignPtr.
21:03:58 <elliott> Deewiant: But yes, all that's perfectly standard apart from my maybe-broken finaliser
21:06:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit America, stop worrying me with your absurdly terrible job market.
21:06:59 <elliott> Deewiant: Actually no, my code is perfectly fine, GHC just disallows it for performance reasons :)
21:07:06 <oerjan> just worry about italy instead
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21:07:26 <HackEgo> 99) <songhead95> think of all the starving kids in china who don't have rotting sea life to eat
21:07:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Eh; Italy doesn't blend with my perception of things like the US does.
21:08:32 <songhead95> Might somebody be able to tell me why my should-be brainfuck interpreter doesn't interpret brainfuck?
21:08:42 <oerjan> +something to slide between
21:09:08 <Ngevd> I waved my pillow around outside my window for a bit
21:09:14 <elliott> songhead95: i note that you don't have any code to handle [
21:09:17 <Ngevd> It's not on my pillow anymore
21:09:18 <Phantom_Hoover> animal friendship: animal husbandry for the 21st century
21:09:20 <elliott> songhead95: what about when you hit [ and the cell is 0?
21:10:46 <ais523> elliott: wow, Oracle are alleging that Google copied which classes inherit from which other classes
21:11:33 <ais523> <Oracle> According to Oracle’s java.util API specification, the Hashtable class is a subclass of Dictionary, and implements three interfaces: Serializable, Cloneable, and Map, which are found in the java.lang, java.io, and java.util packages, respectively. This organization is hardly intuitive or preordained, but Google copied it. Android’s Hashtable class is likewise a subclass of Dictionary, and implements the same three interfaces, with the
21:11:34 <ais523> same three names, found in the same three corresponding Android packages.
21:12:56 <Ngevd> In other news, Hexham beat Stobswood 8 2
21:13:01 <elliott> olsner: it is done: http://hpaste.org/53881
21:13:07 <Ngevd> Wait a moment 'till I find out what sport
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21:27:11 <Ngevd> ...Where's Stobswood?
21:28:53 <oerjan> it doesn't really exist, they just made it up to make the hexhammers feel better about their football team.
21:31:01 <elliott> Ngevd: morpeth, apparently
21:31:04 <elliott> http://www.google.co.uk/maps/vt/data=Ay5GWBeob_WIPLDYoIWcfVXxvZu9XwJ55OX7Ag,C5cdt2A5CfGdk67NP3fQV7xwKKLsYcHz8F-9A1U08Az-t3JBJy4hche_-np_WGhzG-UwL4AZsYR5Ig
21:31:07 <elliott> wow they found the most boring place
21:31:20 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widdrington_Station_and_Stobswood population 120
21:35:21 <Vorpal> <ais523> <Oracle> According to Oracle’s java.util API specification [...] <-- are they complaining about google following the spec?
21:37:02 <ais523> Vorpal: they're complaining about Google copying parts of the spec, whilst not implementing others
21:37:19 <ais523> in particular, they're alleging copyright infringement of the Java API
21:37:25 <Vorpal> btw, dragonborn (which iirc show up in D&D?, and now also in Skyrim) make little sense
21:37:30 <Vorpal> if you actually think about it
21:37:36 <ais523> and most of the arguing that's going on is about whether this is a meaningful concept or not
21:37:46 <ais523> Vorpal: it's a D&D4 thing, I think; probably from a D&D3 splatbook
21:37:47 <Vorpal> I'm pretty sure that genetically it wouldn't work either
21:37:58 <elliott> fantasy: genetically accurate
21:38:19 <Vorpal> elliott: but also think what it means. Some human did what with a dragon!?
21:38:33 <ais523> Vorpal: in D&D, dragons can shapechange at will
21:38:42 <ais523> presumably it happens while the dragon is in human form
21:38:51 <elliott> Vorpal: It would be more unrealistic to /not/ have that happen!
21:39:19 <Vorpal> elliott: well yes if you /had/ the concept of dragonborn you need something like that.
21:39:35 <Vorpal> but I'm questioning the whole concept as it were
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21:54:14 <oerjan> someone on the iwc forum pointed out that tomorrow's iwc rerun will be no. 11, and appear at 11:11 MET 11/11/11
21:55:04 <elliott> oerjan: did you know: you'll be over 50 once iwc finishes rerunning
21:55:15 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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22:06:40 <Ngevd> GOOD NEWS, ESOLANGERS!
22:06:48 <Ngevd> I've done some work on XSLT S and K
22:06:54 <Ngevd> AND IT WORKS FOR ONE ITERATION
22:07:06 <Ngevd> It can turn SKKx to Kx(Kx)
22:07:12 <elliott> Mine worked for one iteration, too.
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22:44:56 <Taneb> Why doesn't //app[./*[position()=1]/*[position()=1 and self::k] or ./*[position()=1]/*[position()=1]/*[position()=1 and self::s]] work?
22:45:27 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25178
22:45:29 <fungot> Taneb: language files code comment comment blank total iirc) are *evil*
22:45:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh my god.
22:45:41 <Phantom_Hoover> <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, so is Philosopher a Brainfuck derivative?<Sut-Heb> lol
22:45:41 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sut-Heb> you;ll be brainfucked you stick around long enough
22:45:41 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sut-Heb> well thats if you stimulaed by the esoteric arts
22:45:41 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sut-Heb> if not then you'll just think where out of our mindzx
22:45:42 <Phantom_Hoover> <Phantom_Hoover> Yesyesyes but is it a Brainfuck derivative/
22:45:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: That guy's been in here too.
22:45:46 <Phantom_Hoover> <Phantom_Hoover> A desire to purge all Brainfuck derivatives.
22:45:48 <Phantom_Hoover> <Phantom_Hoover> I am like the Terminator except more so.
22:45:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's literally a refugee for stupid #esotericers.
22:45:50 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sut-Heb> brainfuck derivitive's what do you mean by that
22:46:00 <elliott> Stop flooding you idiot Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover BOTH THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN IN HERE BEFORE
22:46:15 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Object_(programming_language)
22:46:24 <elliott> ais523: good news and bad news
22:46:38 <ais523> the good news is that it's not obviously a BF deriv
22:46:41 <elliott> ais523: good news: we have two places to send people who come here for the wrong reasons
22:46:46 <elliott> ais523: bad news: they're both awful
22:47:05 <ais523> the bad news is, well just look at it
22:47:26 <elliott> ais523: at least the syntax highlighting is pretty
22:47:42 <elliott> ais523: article violates two policies
22:47:45 <ais523> I'm unsure whether that's syntax highlighting or part of the source
22:47:49 <elliott> can you tell what they are?
22:47:56 <ais523> userpage link, category?
22:48:01 <ais523> I missed the userpage pothole
22:48:09 <ais523> it's also not linked from anywhere it should be
22:48:18 <elliott> the good thing about Graue's rules is, they're really good at annoying people
22:48:23 <elliott> especially when they're stupid rules
22:48:23 <ais523> and there's not enough information to figure out how to categorise it
22:48:36 <ais523> I actually like the no-userspace-potholes rule
22:48:52 <ais523> and as for the cats rule, if it gets rid of articles like that I can live with the false positives ;P
22:50:07 <HackEgo> 301) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
22:50:19 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: What has he said after not gbeating around the bush.
22:50:23 <ais523> do we have an esolang based on the matrix of solidity concept yet?
22:50:46 <elliott> ais523: no, it would inevitably fail to live up to expectations
22:51:04 <elliott> ais523: The esolang... is us.
22:51:12 <ais523> elliott: that's IRP, isn't it?
22:51:24 <elliott> No, that esolang is certain parts of us projected onto the internet.
22:51:27 <elliott> The matrix of solidity is literally us.
22:52:04 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh dear, Cocytus has /msg'd me.
22:52:08 <elliott> I'm afraid to check the tab.
22:52:33 <elliott> Oh wait, it's okay, a mentality is transcendent.
22:52:50 <elliott> "Freenode is the most reliable network for IRC and the most secure." -- http://www.esotericphilosopher.com/chat/
22:53:20 <elliott> ais523: btw, could you delete [[User:Ehird/sandbox]]?
22:54:07 <ais523> elliott: after making sure you aren't burying the history of something, yes
22:54:22 <oerjan> the hermitian matrix of solidity
22:54:42 * ais523 waits for elliott to come to a realisation
22:56:00 <elliott> ais523: What realisation? That wasn't damning you.
22:56:04 <elliott> That was just damning... the empty string.
22:56:12 <ais523> that's why I didn't get annoyed
22:56:14 <ais523> I just thought it was amusing
22:57:05 <ais523> that's also a bizarre operation
22:57:39 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: why? that's an incredibly mean thing to do on such minor motivation
22:57:51 <ais523> if I thought you believed it, I'd be furious
22:57:55 <ais523> as it is, I'm merely angry
22:58:02 <Taneb> Well, #xml should help me with my XSLT problems
22:58:17 <oerjan> everyone fear the hoover damn
22:58:22 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: actually, believe it or not
22:59:11 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, that's an awful lot of effort to go to for the sake of being quirky.
22:59:21 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: anger takes /effort/?
22:59:25 <ais523> it's suppressing anger that takes effort
22:59:29 <ais523> especially when people say such mean things
22:59:42 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover discovers that not everybody shares his value system.
22:59:50 <Phantom_Hoover> You're forcibly ignoring about three different aspects of standard human communication.
23:00:29 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: people using words with meanings other than their actual meanings confuses me, to some extent
23:00:39 <ais523> because communication makes no sense if people do it too often
23:00:40 <Taneb> I suggest we pester #philosophy
23:00:54 <elliott> Taneb: we've done that before
23:02:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:02:42 <elliott> ais523: god says he's taking it back on behalf of ph, btw
23:04:33 <elliott> ais523: heh, I just read a usenet post by "alex23" in rec.games.roguelike.development convinced you wrote it
23:04:48 <elliott> and wondering why it was so bizarrely out-of-character
23:08:46 -!- airells has left.
23:09:26 <elliott> !addinterp ping c puts("Pong!");
23:09:27 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping installed.
23:09:57 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping deleted.
23:10:05 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping installed.
23:10:29 -!- myndzi\ has joined.
23:11:27 <elliott> <elliott> ^def ping ul (pong!)S
23:11:28 <oerjan> elliott: EgoBot's interpreters haven't worked for weeks
23:11:36 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping deleted.
23:11:41 <elliott> !addinterp ping c puts("Pong!");
23:11:42 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping installed.
23:11:43 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:11:57 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping deleted.
23:11:58 <elliott> !addinterp ping c puts("Pong.");
23:11:59 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping installed.
23:12:06 -!- Taneb has joined.
23:13:55 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:14:03 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
23:14:18 <EgoBot> userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp.
23:14:55 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd google graph hello id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak wacro warez
23:15:34 <oerjan> somehow show doesn't work though the rest of those special commands do
23:16:13 <ais523> does !show actually do anything at all?
23:16:27 <fungot> (http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98)S
23:16:34 <oerjan> yes, it's supposed to show the source of a userinterpreter
23:17:34 <oerjan> Madoka-Kaname: those don't work.
23:17:47 <oerjan> only some special commands do
23:20:10 <ais523> oh no, Pegasus made another page with the same policy violations
23:20:25 <ais523> someone else go fix them, so they won't think it's just me on a mad crusade against them
23:20:38 <elliott> The Parnassus Programming Language (2007, by Erick Atencio) is a programming language with features that other languages never had before. It is based on the When instruction, that allows to run a procedure in the moment an event happen.
23:20:44 <elliott> ais523: propose for deletion, not an esolang
23:20:49 <elliott> event-based programming is a well-known concept
23:20:57 <elliott> and the examples shown have no esoteric features whatsoever
23:21:10 <elliott> well, apart from using the terrible whitesmiths indentation style
23:24:36 <monqy> these new languages....
23:24:46 <monqy> why is every language bad
23:24:50 <monqy> except for the good ones
23:24:59 <monqy> but who cares about those
23:25:04 <Taneb> Because mediocrity sucks
23:25:07 <elliott> ais523: he just dropped another one
23:25:13 <elliott> ais523: can you block him for spamming?
23:25:32 <monqy> what is it with this guy
23:25:35 <monqy> Category: Impossible Programming Inc
23:25:36 <ais523> elliott: the thing is, I'm not convinced it's spam or off-topic
23:25:41 <monqy> banned for category
23:25:42 <ais523> monqy: that's a clear policy violation
23:25:48 <ais523> I think we should each clean up one page at a time
23:25:50 <ais523> until he gets the point
23:25:54 <ais523> different person on each page
23:26:16 <Taneb> I'll take Parnassus
23:26:30 <Taneb> If you explain how you mean clean up
23:26:52 <elliott> ais523: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:Parnassus
23:27:01 <elliott> how many !votes do we need for deletion? :P
23:27:15 <ais523> Taneb: fix the userspace pothole, fix the categories
23:27:29 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to shylock.
23:27:31 <ais523> elliott: technically only one, but that means it gets deleted after about 10 years if anyone still cares by then
23:27:37 <ais523> the more support for deletion, the faster it gets deleted
23:27:39 -!- shylock has changed nick to copumpkin.
23:28:13 <ais523> I'm antilooking forward to [[Hera Runtime]], anyway
23:28:16 <elliott> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User_talk:Pegasus
23:28:48 <elliott> ais523: [[Hebe Script]] is quite uncontroversially offtopic, methinks
23:29:18 <ais523> elliott: my brain's having problems reading it
23:29:22 <ais523> it just mentally filters the page out
23:29:30 <elliott> Hebe Script is a simple scripting language that allows for the creation of little applets for the Hera Runtime. t has the CommonSystem library preloaded, and it does not have a App object, so it does not need a "When app.run = True" main method.
23:29:30 <elliott> [edit]How to copy a file to the floopy disk
23:29:30 <elliott> if get DiskSpace with "a:\";or "b:\"
23:29:30 <elliott> Higher Than FileSize with PublicArg-1
23:29:31 <elliott> call CopyFile with PublicArg-1 with (get IsAvailable with "a:\";or "b:\")
23:29:37 <elliott> PublicArg are the parameters that the script received.
23:29:50 <elliott> ais523: fun fact: there's a syntax-highlighted comment on [[Parnassus]]
23:29:52 <elliott> it's just almost invisible
23:29:52 <ais523> bleh, I can't read it even when you post it, it's just that bland
23:30:07 <ais523> elliott: I noticed, I read the source of pages before the pages themselves
23:30:14 <ais523> simple anti-goatse trick
23:30:55 * elliott attempts to figure out how much he values Ryan North sketches of T-Rex with a hat on
23:31:14 <ais523> elliott: thinking about buying one, or about selling one?
23:31:53 <elliott> it's quite difficult to estimate, as I get to pick from a large but finite set of unknown elements
23:31:56 <ais523> If i = ( 4; or 2; or 1)
23:32:08 <elliott> ais523: that's not so unreasonable, Perl 6 has that
23:32:17 <ais523> I know Perl 6 has it, but its syntax is much saner
23:32:27 <Taneb> I saw somebody wearing an xkcd shirt today
23:32:28 <ais523> Call write:string With const "The number is two, four or eleven"
23:32:31 <ais523> please tell me that's not a typo
23:33:04 <ais523> elliott: ( 4; or 2; or 1) versus "two, four or eleven"
23:33:36 <Taneb> elliott, nah, he hadn't actually heard of xkcd
23:33:58 <monqy> did a frend give it to him as present
23:33:59 <ais523> elliott: /some/ xkcds are good…
23:34:10 <Taneb> I like the one with the arrow
23:34:27 <elliott> ais523: yes, but to wear an xkcd shirt in late 2011, well after the average quality of xkcd sunk from far above average to so, so below average?
23:34:50 <ais523> elliott: it might still be an xkcd shirt of a good xkcd
23:35:03 <monqy> I know enough about xkcd to know to and how to avoid xkcd shirts, but it doesn't matter anyway, because I refuse to wear anything but plain shirts
23:35:20 <Taneb> I've got a Homestuck shirt
23:35:28 <elliott> ais523: I just checked, all the xkcd shirts suck :)
23:35:43 <ais523> elliott: which in your opinion is the least sucky?
23:35:49 <Taneb> I'm planning on getting an IWC shirt
23:35:53 <ais523> so I can see how bad even the least sucky is for myself
23:36:02 <elliott> ais523: probably http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/athletic_square_0.jpg, as it's impossible for the internet to run down into oblivion :)
23:36:25 <elliott> although http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/woodpecker_300.png isn't bad
23:36:42 <monqy> woodpecker is harder to associate with xkcd
23:36:49 <elliott> You have new messages (last change).
23:36:56 <elliott> ais523: defend me from pegasus if he cyberbullies me pls ;_;
23:37:11 <elliott> now i have to feel slightly guilty about being a jerk
23:37:11 <ais523> but I'm about to go home
23:37:25 <elliott> dear people: don't talk to me; love, elliott
23:37:40 <elliott> ais523: what's your favourite hat????
23:37:49 <elliott> rated on pure... hattiness
23:38:00 <ais523> elliott: bowler hat, I think
23:38:06 <ais523> it's particularly hatty
23:38:07 <oerjan> oh, elliott is feeling misanthropic; let's shower him with love
23:38:13 <elliott> Classy! But: Classy for a T-Rex???
23:38:19 <ais523> wow, xkcd 970 is actually mildly insightful
23:38:25 <ais523> (although, not actually /amusing/)
23:38:40 <Gregor> elliott, oerjan: AND I REFUSE TO FIX THEM MUAHAHAHAHHA
23:39:23 <oerjan> why the heck did it break, anyway
23:39:27 <elliott> ais523: hmm, that convinced me to archive binge from there to the latest xkcd
23:39:30 <elliott> ais523: I regret having read 972
23:40:02 <elliott> oerjan: it's about five comics :P
23:40:36 <elliott> I'm going to have to sue him over 974, those @ design documents are classified
23:41:31 <ais523> elliott: hey, bad comic saved by funny comment from a viewer
23:41:43 <elliott> Man. Hats are complicated.
23:41:46 <ais523> wow, that sounded worryingly Vorpalish, and I don't know why
23:42:04 <Gregor> <oerjan> why the heck did it break, anyway // I have no idea; if I knew, I'd fix it :P
23:42:36 <elliott> Gregor, are you available for hat identification services.
23:43:56 <Gregor> elliott: Depends on whether I can actually identify the hat in question.
23:44:02 <Gregor> elliott: If I can't, I wasn't available.
23:44:35 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping deleted.
23:44:42 <Gregor> !addinterp ping c puts("Pong!");
23:44:42 <elliott> Gregor: Feather-based hat identification services.
23:44:43 <EgoBot> Interpreter ping installed.
23:44:56 <Gregor> elliott: Errr ... identification based on feathers makes little sense.
23:45:00 * ais523 puts a feather in Gregor's cap
23:49:06 <oerjan> !addinterp ping c puts("Pong!");
23:49:06 <EgoBot> There is already an interpreter for ping!
23:49:20 <oerjan> (just checking if it's actually there :P)
23:49:52 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:50:01 <Taneb> And there's the problem
23:50:03 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:51:01 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:51:11 -!- elliott has joined.
23:51:19 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host).
23:51:19 -!- elliott has joined.
23:51:56 <Gregor> fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable HAHA WHOOPS
23:52:26 -!- Gregor has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me).
23:53:13 -!- esowiki has joined.
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23:53:15 -!- EgoBot has joined.
23:53:25 -!- Gregor has joined.
23:54:28 <oerjan> i definitely saw no glogbackup
23:54:38 <Gregor> oerjan: I saw that too >_>
23:54:49 <Taneb> Okay, who's bright idea was it to make "xml" an invalid name for xsl:processing instuction?
23:55:19 <oerjan> !svedeesh We are working again!
23:55:19 <EgoBot> Fe-a-a ire-a-a foorkeeng igeeee! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork! Bork Bork Bork!
23:56:04 <elliott> * glogbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
23:56:04 <elliott> * HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
23:56:04 <elliott> <oerjan> the whole Gregor empire collapsed
23:56:04 <elliott> * glogbot (foobar@codu.org) has joined #esoteric
23:56:46 <oerjan> Gregor: so was the process table entirely full, or something?
23:57:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
23:57:38 <pikhq> init schemes always seem so ridiculously complicated to me.
23:58:03 <pikhq> I mean, systemd... upstart... Holy crap, Debian dynamically creates a makefile for it...