00:00:42 <Gregor> elliott: Shoot ... I don't think I can make VAX work :(
00:01:43 <pikhq> Butbut all the world's a VAX!
00:02:14 <Gregor> It's CISC but (apparently?) functions have to be 16-bit aligned!
00:02:42 <oerjan> data ExitVal = To DirVal | From DirVal; data DirVal = NW | NE | SW | SE; class Exit e where exitVal :: p e -> ExitVal; instance Dir d => Exit (To d) where exitVal x = To (dirVal x); ... class Dir d where dirVal :: p d => DirVal; instance Dir NW where dirVal _ = NW; ...
00:02:49 <Gregor> I can't really cope with function alignment not being the same as the smallest opcode.
00:02:52 <elliott> Gregor: Just align everything?
00:02:58 <oerjan> i think something like that is needed to actually _test_ these directions
00:03:03 <elliott> Gregor: It shouldn't hurt to align everything to n * size of smallest opcode for smoe n
00:03:42 <oerjan> hm why did i write p, i was going to use t...
00:03:55 <elliott> data ExitVal = To DirVal | From DirVal; data DirVal = NW | NE | SW | SE;
00:04:09 <elliott> without the reification stuff, though
00:04:36 <oerjan> and also a bunch of the datatypes need Dir dir => contexts for their quantified types
00:04:51 <oerjan> otherwise they might be type erased entirely
00:04:56 <elliott> oerjan: this is so you can "ascend SW" or whatever right?
00:06:09 <oerjan> no, this was primarily so i can look at a gadt value and actually find out which dirs it _uses_ inside
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00:07:17 <elliott> oerjan: mightn't a type family fit better? perhaps not
00:07:20 <Gregor> elliott: It's not the codegen that's the problem.
00:07:25 <Gregor> elliott: It's pro/epilogue detection.
00:07:38 <oerjan> i dunno, if you see how...
00:07:46 <oerjan> i'm not so familiar with them.
00:07:50 <Gregor> <pikhq> Gregor: The crap? // the crap what?
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00:09:39 <pikhq> 16-bit alignment for functions?
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00:12:22 <Gregor> Still, even without VAX, I feel that x86[_64], SPARC, MIPS[el], ARM, PPC, Alpha is a pretty good list.
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00:58:34 <oerjan> the problem is, i'm actually fed up of this already
00:58:45 <oerjan> (in case that wasn't obvious)
01:01:48 <elliott> oerjan shall forever be known as the person who sided with the finns and swedes
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01:11:01 <elliott> oerjan has now committed seppuku.
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01:11:52 <elliott> oerjan: i will now pester monqy for the algorithm instead to make you feel bad.
01:12:36 <Sgeo|web> Ok, two different people in two different chatrooms greeted with pluralization...
01:12:50 <Sgeo|web> Although I assume "brains" is just a part of context of prior conversation
01:13:16 <elliott> oerjan is too scandinavian to tell me the secrets
01:13:50 <monqy> what is east algorithm what are you talking about ;_; ;_;; _;;;;;
01:14:06 <monqy> iv'eb eeeen too busy python to pay attenteion :(
01:14:59 <oerjan> well basically you need to go up in a quadtree, then in the right direction to end up east of where you were. the trouble is all the extra scaffolding of data which makes even those steps insanely tricky
01:15:55 <elliott> oerjan: i'm going to give it a shot myself, and if i fail i will die HOPE YOU FEEL GOOD
01:17:51 <elliott> oerjan: um out of curiosity is the "p" used in exitVal/dirVal just standing in for Proxy or similar?
01:17:58 <elliott> or do you actually plan to apply them to MetaNodes or something
01:18:49 <oerjan> elliott: as i said, i really wanted it to be t, similar to in your Neighbors* types
01:19:07 <oerjan> elliott: and yes, the idea was to just be able to put in any of those
01:20:27 <elliott> oerjan: otoh it fails slightly because you have "p (To NW)" and you apply dirVal to it but dirVal is expecting "p NW"...
01:21:10 <elliott> oerjan: it's easy enough to make a proxy out of it though
01:21:27 <oerjan> yeah. whatever you think easiest.
01:21:28 <elliott> or just use scoped type variables
01:21:50 <oerjan> erm, scoped type variables are tricky with gadts
01:22:19 <oerjan> it doesn't capture those that appear from pattern matching
01:22:28 <elliott> instance (DirectionType dir) => ExitType (To dir) where
01:22:28 <elliott> exitVal = To $ directionVal (Proxy :: Proxy dir)
01:22:33 <elliott> not replacing the whole mechanism with them
01:22:48 <elliott> it avoids a silly "a (b c) -> Proxy c" function to make the types work out
01:25:09 <elliott> time to write "ascend :: MetaContext -> MetaContext"...
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01:26:27 <oerjan> to find out how that changes the structure, it is necessary to know how many of the neighbors of the source and destination node lead to other real cursors
01:27:24 <elliott> oerjan: btw, I'm not sure a class actually /is/ needed, because everything ends up containing Neighbours, and you can pattern-match on those to determine which direction is being used >:)
01:27:39 <elliott> in other words: /me adds class contexts to everything
01:27:48 <oerjan> elliott: not leafs, i thought...
01:29:19 <oerjan> because if you are leaving a node with > 2 such neighbors, it gets turned into a MetaNode, while if it has 1, it gets merged into that one's MetaPath, while if it has 0, it and its neighbors get turned into a PlainCursor.
01:29:53 <oerjan> oh, excluding neighbors in the direction you are going, of course
01:31:23 <oerjan> ah and of course if there is another real cursor on the node _itself_, it always becomes a MetaNode.
01:31:45 * elliott is getting very suspicious of these very-similar data types that seem to give rise to a bunch of special cases.
01:32:36 <oerjan> a MetaNode either contains a real cursor or is sort of a crossing whose signPost tells you how to get to other real cursors
01:33:45 <elliott> i am also kind of suspicious of how the "zipper of tree of zippers" thing is sort of tied to the zippers themselves
01:34:14 <elliott> well, it seems like you should be able to do that completely separately from the zipper operations themselves.
01:35:18 <elliott> oerjan: also, I think SignPost is broken. there's nowhere to stash the IpData when switching cursor
01:35:51 <oerjan> wasn't it Either IpData Exit?
01:36:06 <elliott> yes, but presumably you have to change it to the relevant Exit when switching cursors...
01:36:13 <elliott> since you use the SignPost to figure out whether you're at a given cursor or not
01:36:16 <elliott> and if not, how to get to it
01:37:32 <oerjan> well when you leave a node carrying a cursor, you change that node's signPost from containing the ipData to containing the exit, of course; at the same time you change the node you're going to to contain the ipData
01:38:57 <oerjan> it may be that the entire SignPost gets moved to the new node, if the old one is packed into a MetaPath while the new one became unpacked from one
01:39:08 <elliott> it seems like the leaf data should contain the IpId
01:40:19 <oerjan> well... i guess cursors that aren't in the move will always be on leaves
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01:40:44 <elliott> oerjan: well otherwise I have to scan the entire signpost just to find the value that's Left
01:41:13 <oerjan> erm, you just lookup your current ip, surely
01:41:32 <oerjan> there can be more than one ip at the same spot, too
01:41:41 <elliott> LeafCtx :: (Direction dir)
01:42:14 <oerjan> the SignPost can contain more than one ip key whose value is Left ...
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01:42:26 <oerjan> corresponding to two ips in the same cell
01:42:30 <elliott> oerjan: well, okay. I was going by <oerjan> well when you leave a node carrying a cursor, you change that node's signPost from containing the ipData to containing the exit, of course; at the same time you change the node you're going to to contain the ipData
01:42:51 <oerjan> oh, only for the ip key you are actually _moving_
01:43:53 <elliott> oerjan: right. and how am i suppose to determine which one that is?
01:44:08 <oerjan> oh right, i forgot about that...
01:44:18 <oerjan> you should take the ip as an argument to ascend
01:46:28 * elliott idly wonders about a data structure that acts as a set of bytestrings; given a hash of one of the bytestrings, you can get the bytestring out, and given a hash that matches none of the bytestrings in the set, you can determine that it isn't present; but (a) it is unfeasible (brute-forcey) to get a valid hash out of the data without knowing one, and (b) it is unfeasible to access any bytestring without knowing its hash
01:46:47 <elliott> I was thinking you could encrypt each bytestring with its hash as the key, but you need a way to go from the hash to that data, and that ends up storing the hash itself...
01:47:01 <elliott> ooh: you could implement it as a lookup table from a hash of the hash to the bytestring encrypted with the hash
01:47:11 <elliott> then doing (a) or (b) requires reversing the hash function
01:48:09 <oerjan> i'm sure this must have been investigated
01:48:33 <elliott> probably, but i have no idea what i would google for
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01:50:00 <CakeProphet> okay so when I convert the integer 5 to a float via c-style casting in C++
01:50:20 <oerjan> elliott: hm, all the difficulty in implementing that is in implementing one-point sets, i think
01:50:27 <oerjan> then you can just make a list of them
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01:50:53 <oerjan> assuming you don't consider iterating through all too expensive
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01:52:20 <elliott> oerjan: that is indeed too expensive.
01:52:46 <oerjan> oh hm of course you could simply use the hash to look the right one up in a hashtable
01:53:21 <oerjan> oh hm i didn't read (a) properly
01:53:34 <elliott> oerjan: you could do that and not store the keys
01:53:45 <elliott> so it's O(n) in how many hashtable collisions there are to look up
01:53:59 <oerjan> um wouldn't (a) make it impossible to _construct_ your data structure?
01:54:12 <CakeProphet> elliott: ah okay, see I thought differing representations of would mess things up, but... I guess not?
01:54:13 <oerjan> from the data you want to put in it
01:54:32 <elliott> oerjan: well, with my proposed solution: table[hash(hash(data))] = encrypt(data, key=hash(data))
01:55:52 <CakeProphet> or is it that c-style case in C++ does nice automatic conversion, with reinterpret_cast being an actual C-like cast?
01:56:05 <CakeProphet> wehriuheriuhwUEHR UW EHRU HWUEIRH YU23H 78H
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01:58:42 <CakeProphet> it's times like this that I wish my data structures course was in Haskell. :P
02:01:22 <CakeProphet> elliott: hey I'm making a hash table too!!! :D :D :D :#
02:01:32 <elliott> oerjan: does that not work?
02:01:46 <lambdabot> Control.DeepSeq ($!!) :: NFData a => (a -> b) -> a -> b
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02:02:24 <oerjan> elliott: oh, i don't trust myself to judge that
02:02:56 <Sgeo|web> CakeProphet: Would you learn purely functional queues, or do structures that could only be used in ST?
02:03:12 <CakeProphet> Sgeo|web: good question. depends on the structure.
02:03:24 <CakeProphet> hash table would be IO/ST, trees would be pure.
02:03:58 <CakeProphet> I don't think you could cram Haskell + data structures into one course though. not effectively anyway
02:04:10 <CakeProphet> you'd want an intro Haskell course followed by a data structures course.
02:05:56 <CakeProphet> well, not all trees would be pure I guess. but then... hmmm
02:07:00 <CakeProphet> well really the data structures you'd want to use in Haskell are not the ones you'd want to use in C++, I think.
02:07:13 <CakeProphet> can you do tree rotations in pure Haskell efficiently?
02:12:54 <oerjan> to insert/delete and rebalance
02:18:43 <Gregor> Whose Line is it Anyway season 1 report: Absolute winner is Wayne Brady with an impressive 3,005,530.5 points. Absolute average episode winner is also Wayne with 187,845.7 points per episode. Logarithmic winner is Colin Mochrie with 130.4. Logarithmic average episode winner for performers appearing in >1 episode is also Colin with a commanding 6.5 log-points per episode.
02:19:19 <oerjan> ah but what about the sinusoidal winner
02:23:35 <Gregor> Ryan Stiles was the declared winner in 12 episodes, with Colin coming in second at 9 episodes.
02:25:03 * oerjan swats CakeProphet -----###
02:25:16 <CakeProphet> there are better things to invest time into
02:25:27 <Gregor> CakeProphet: My JIT works on nine platforms!
02:26:04 <Gregor> CakeProphet: I taught my dog to teach my cat to behave!
02:26:08 <oerjan> "shachaf: Sometimes things are complicated because the domain is complicated. Other times things are complicated because edwardk."
02:26:20 <oerjan> (new Haskell Weekly News)
02:27:48 <oerjan> elliott: why is your quote so serious.
02:28:06 <oerjan> i have half a mind to `delquote it
02:28:15 <CakeProphet> so for my data structures project I have to provide pseudocode algorithms in my documentation for any function that's more than 15 lines.
02:28:24 <CakeProphet> but none of my functions are more than 15 lines. bahahahahahaha
02:28:46 <oerjan> CakeProphet: EXCELLENT
02:29:26 <CakeProphet> I can't imagine any of these functions being more than 15 lines
02:29:34 <CakeProphet> unless you're just bad at programming or bad at abstraction.
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02:32:33 <HackEgo> 620) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 666) <shachaf> Real Tar is GNU tar. <shachaf> You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 704) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
02:32:46 <shachaf> Those quotes are all horrible.
02:33:07 <shachaf> You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes.
02:33:10 <CakeProphet> c-style cast, dynamic cast, static cast, reinterpret cast, const_cast.
02:33:11 <HackEgo> 686) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks
02:34:10 <CakeProphet> oh I see, C just does automatic conversion of number types.
02:34:28 <Gregor> `addquote <shachaf> You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. <shachaf> `quote kmc <HackEgo> 686) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks <shachaf> Well, in theory.
02:34:30 <HackEgo> 720) <shachaf> You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. <shachaf> `quote kmc <HackEgo> 686) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks <shachaf> Well, in theory.
02:34:36 <Gregor> And now, you have good quotes :P
02:37:04 <Sgeo|web> What is with Haskell and people named Elliott?
02:37:08 <oerjan> shachaf: we have had kmc in this channel, he refuses to entertain us though
02:37:48 <Sgeo|web> elliott: There's you, Conal, Some dude named Trevor, some guy I met IRL
02:37:49 <CakeProphet> Sgeo|web: Elliott is the name of elitist jerks who like elitist jerk languages. hurr hurr hurr
02:37:56 <shachaf> elliott: Sgeo|web is trying to say "What is it with elliott?" in a polite way.
02:38:15 <elliott> Sgeo|web: there's also elliottcable!
02:38:20 <elliott> who i doubt actually knows any haskell.
02:38:30 <elliott> but is in #haskell occasionally and ragequits whenever people start pinging me
02:38:45 <CakeProphet> also Elliott Smith who is actally not a programmer and is dead.
02:38:51 <oerjan> Gregor: hm that 720 quote has some parsing ambiguity due to the recursion
02:38:59 <shachaf> elliott: Right now neither you nor he are in #haskell.
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02:39:11 -!- CakeProphet has changed nick to Haskell.
02:39:41 <Haskell> this nick was registered in 2008 apparently.
02:39:55 <Sgeo|web> Haskell's last name is probably Elliott
02:40:00 <Haskell> I should go to #freenode and get it.
02:41:06 <Haskell> because that's a name I like and stuff.
02:42:05 -!- Haskell has changed nick to CakeProphet.
02:42:24 <CakeProphet> I can only be Haskell for so long. The awesome blows my mind.
02:44:00 <CakeProphet> is doubling a hash table a reasonable resize function? I'm gonna go with "sure"
02:44:33 <shachaf> CakeProphet: Better to enlarge it by one byte.
02:44:40 <shachaf> More space-efficient that way.
02:45:38 <CakeProphet> I was actually worried more about time than space.
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02:46:06 <Gregor> <oerjan> Gregor: hm that 720 quote has some parsing ambiguity due to the recursion // 'struth
02:46:33 <HackEgo> 1) <Aftran> I used computational linguistics to kill her.
02:46:57 <HackEgo> 2) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork"
02:47:46 <CakeProphet> honestly I'm not sure why you would expect great works of comedic genius from an #esoteric quote db
02:49:24 <oerjan> wait, how could you _not_?
02:50:02 <CakeProphet> oerjan: ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha.
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02:53:14 <oerjan> > intercalate(".")$fix((" ha":).scanl(++)(" ha"))
02:53:16 <lambdabot> " ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ha ha h...
02:53:53 <CakeProphet> only expressed for the most Fibonacci humorous things.
02:56:43 <lambdabot> [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1...
02:56:51 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
02:57:02 <oerjan> i just modified that one in the obvious way
02:57:40 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ([[t]] -> [[t]])
02:57:46 <lambdabot> [0,1,3,6,10,15,21,28,36,45,55,66,78,91,105,120,136,153,171,190,210,231,253,...
02:59:14 <oerjan> > scanl(f)x[1..]::Expr
02:59:15 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr'
02:59:38 <lambdabot> forall a b. (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> [a]
03:00:06 <oerjan> scanl is like foldl, but lists all the intermediate results
03:00:33 <oerjan> > scanl(f)x[1..]::[Expr]
03:00:34 <lambdabot> [x,f x 1,f (f x 1) 2,f (f (f x 1) 2) 3,f (f (f (f x 1) 2) 3) 4,f (f (f (f (...
03:01:06 <lambdabot> [f 1 (f 2 (f 3 (f 4 (f 5 (f 6 (f 7 (f 8 (f 9 (f 10 (f 11 (f 12 (f 13 (f 14 ...
03:01:53 <lambdabot> [f 1 (f 2 (f 3 (f 4 (f 5 x)))),f 2 (f 3 (f 4 (f 5 x))),f 3 (f 4 (f 5 x)),f ...
03:01:57 <lambdabot> [f 1 (f 2 (f 3 x)),f 2 (f 3 x),f 3 x,x]
03:04:15 <elliott> CakeProphet: only for laziness
03:04:23 <oerjan> well scanl can give the first element without any recursion
03:06:02 <CakeProphet> > reverse (scanl (+) 1 [1..5]) == scanr (+) 1 [1..5]
03:06:29 <CakeProphet> > reverse (scanl1 (+) [1..5]) == scanr1 (+) [1..5]
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03:06:57 <oerjan> > reverse (scanl1 (+) [1..5]) == scanr1 (+) (reverse [1..5])
03:19:27 <CakeProphet> oerjan: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Dannevirke_welcome_sign.jpg
03:20:34 <elliott> hmm, my double-hashing solution is so ugly :(
03:20:41 <oerjan> of course not, vikings didn't have horns on their helmets!
03:21:04 <CakeProphet> elliott: SIMPLY USE SOME FORM OF NON-LINEAR PROBING.
03:21:13 <oerjan> also i'm clean shaven.
03:21:17 <elliott> CakeProphet: i don't think you know what i'm talking about
03:21:23 <elliott> oerjan: no, you look like dijkstra
03:21:34 <CakeProphet> elliott: double hashing as in... double hasing as in... hash tables. right?
03:22:40 <oerjan> In een alternatief universum, Ørjan lijkt Dijkstra.
03:23:41 <oerjan> i have a hunch the lijkt isn't quite correct
03:25:14 * elliott likes to think CakeProphet really is Adam Curtis.
03:25:51 <elliott> CakeProphet: it says you're from the UK right on your wikipedia page.
03:25:56 <copumpkin> then you should correct your wikipedia page
03:26:17 <oerjan> copumpkin: you're not from hexham are you
03:26:36 <elliott> oerjan: btw here's what pseqs look like now: http://hpaste.org/54147
03:27:06 <CakeProphet> elliott: so am I like the Michael Moore of the UK?
03:27:42 <elliott> i don't think the UK, as a country, could actually support a figure describable as "the michael moore of the uk".
03:27:49 <elliott> i don't think that's even mathematically possible
03:28:58 <elliott> i don't think i can analogise to a world so alien ;D
03:28:59 <elliott> i don't think i can analogise to a world so alien ;D
03:29:17 <CakeProphet> yes I find it difficult to wrap my head around the UK.
03:29:35 <CakeProphet> Adam Curtis seems more respectable perhaps?
03:33:05 <CakeProphet> "Suggested a parallel between the rise of Islamism in the Arab world and Neoconservatism in the United States in that both needed to inflate a myth of a dangerous enemy in order to draw people to support them."
03:33:23 <CakeProphet> (that's the description for The Power of Nightmares)
03:33:57 <oerjan> _so_ easy to godwin that
03:35:42 <CakeProphet> elliott: apparently he is the /only/ famous Adam Curtis.
03:36:13 <elliott> CakeProphet: s/he is/I am/
03:37:04 <oerjan> you're actually gleeful
03:38:58 <CakeProphet> elliott: I occasionally get weird reactions to my name.
03:39:13 <CakeProphet> not because it's the same as some kind of famous guy in the UK (no one in the US knows who that guy is)
03:39:22 <CakeProphet> but because it's apparently two first names or something.
03:40:55 <elliott> i doubt adam curtis is that well known in the UK either :P
03:41:53 <CakeProphet> elliott: oh I recall from a previous conversation you saying that he was kind of well-known by people that know things.
03:42:24 <elliott> i guess among people who know things about documentaries?
03:44:09 <CakeProphet> okay well this is good. this means I can go to the UK.
03:44:48 <CakeProphet> if my name were, say, Tony Blair I'd be more reluctant to go to the UK.
03:50:16 <CakeProphet> there are more than two major parties in the UK?
03:50:21 <pikhq> Better than "WTF how do you *say* that" as a reaction.
03:50:39 <elliott> it is smaller than the other two.
03:50:56 <elliott> and will probably never get elected again after this government
03:51:02 <CakeProphet> elliott: it's almost like you can track the path I took on Wikipedia!
03:51:30 <CakeProphet> er wait you mean Conservative Party? I thought it was like... "the big one"
03:51:33 <pikhq> Seriously, how many Americans do you expect to say "Worcester" even vaguely reasonable?
03:53:07 <elliott> CakeProphet: no, i mean the lib dems
03:53:18 <elliott> the current government is a coalition between the conservative party and the liberal democrats
03:53:56 <CakeProphet> I find it kind of crazy that the Labour party is socialist
03:54:14 <CakeProphet> like, in the US, socialist is like a synonym for "bad".
03:54:16 <pikhq> That's because you're used to American politics, where "socialist" is a curse word.
03:54:42 <elliott> CakeProphet: it's really not.
03:55:38 <pikhq> What should weird you out is the BNP.
03:55:39 <elliott> CakeProphet: basically they were useless for a few decades and then Tony Blair came along and they started calling themselves New Labour and became centre-right and got elected.
03:55:44 <pikhq> AKA "National Socialists".
03:56:10 <coppro> pikhq: I think I've heard of those guys
03:56:15 <elliott> CakeProphet: what, a political party getting popular and becoming crappier?
03:56:16 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Something rather similar happened to the Republican party, actually.
03:56:38 <elliott> CakeProphet: no it's more like "let's look more like the conservatives because they keep winning" :P
03:56:44 <CakeProphet> pikhq: well.. was the republican party ever "socialist"?
03:57:00 <elliott> CakeProphet: reminder that lincoln was a republican
03:57:14 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Not much *socialist*, but certainly very liberal on certain issues.
03:57:17 <coppro> CakeProphet: In Canada, our opposition party is socialist
03:57:23 <coppro> it's in their constitution, even
03:57:36 <elliott> i don't think the usa has ever experienced any kind of popularity for socialism
03:58:14 <coppro> the first sentence of their constitution, even
03:58:28 <coppro> holy shit were we all surprised last election
03:58:47 <pikhq> elliott: It did once. We called it the "New Deal".
03:58:53 <elliott> coppro: "WHEREAS the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have expressed their Desire to be federally united into One Dominion under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, with a Constitution similar in Principle to that of the United Kingdom:"?
03:59:13 <CakeProphet> elliott: he means the party's constitution.
03:59:23 <elliott> pikhq: i dislike fdr but completely forget why
03:59:41 <elliott> WHEREAS we want a socialist opposition party
03:59:47 <pikhq> elliott: Probably the only notable action of his that's dislikable: Japanese internment camps.
03:59:48 <elliott> and WHEREAS god help us if they get into government
04:00:02 <CakeProphet> elliott: he kind of started easing himself into a position of supreme authority.
04:01:19 <elliott> 3. It shall be lawful for the Queen, by and with the Advice of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, to declare by Proclamation that, on and after the passing of this Act, the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick shall form and be One Dominion under the Name of Canada; and on and after that Day those Three Provinces shall form and be One Dominion under that Name accordingly.(4)
04:01:29 <elliott> coppro: possible scam: check whether the queen actually declared that
04:01:59 <elliott> 4. Unless it is otherwise expressed or implied, the Name Canada shall be taken to mean Canada as constituted under this Act.(5)
04:01:59 <elliott> wow, they preempted us making a nomic called canada and using the cosntitution's references to "canada" to take over! smart
04:02:32 <CakeProphet> elliott: I don't think the US constitution does anything like that.
04:02:43 <elliott> CakeProphet: yeah but you guys don't follow yours
04:02:58 <elliott> i wonder if that's the one goedel found
04:03:00 <CakeProphet> elliott: ha. ha. ha ha. ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha
04:03:06 <CakeProphet> it's funny because it's true. also sad. :(
04:03:14 <coppro> CakeProphet: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
04:03:24 <pikhq> elliott: The issue is, Canada doesn't have a *single* constitution.
04:03:29 <pikhq> There's like three Constitution Acts.
04:03:32 <elliott> oh, suber reckons it was the constitution's self-amendment clause itself
04:03:41 <elliott> but I hope goedel would be smarter than that
04:04:04 <oerjan> elliott: saw a reference to this which is sort of the list version of PSeq: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/thrist/0.2/doc/html/Data-Thrist.html
04:04:13 <coppro> ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
04:04:14 <CakeProphet> elliott: the problem with the constitution is that it's too liberal for neoconservatives.
04:04:20 <elliott> oerjan: hm i think i've seen this
04:04:29 <coppro> pikhq: I've told you about the supreme court act, right?
04:04:29 <elliott> oerjan: the list version is easy ofc, it's doing it with a finger tree that's hard
04:04:37 <pikhq> CakeProphet: The problem with everything but a king by divine right is that it's too liberal for neoconservatives.
04:04:42 <pikhq> coppro: Don't *think* so.
04:04:43 <CakeProphet> elliott: you need /warrants/ to search and seize property? I mean come on.
04:05:15 <elliott> http://opendylan.org/~gabor/Thrist-draft-2008-07-18.pdf sigh, not found
04:05:18 <CakeProphet> elliott: TERRORISTS ARE PLOTTING OUR END THIS VERY MINUTE.
04:05:20 <pikhq> CakeProphet: You need a /majority/ to pass a law? Come on.
04:05:35 <coppro> pikhq: So the constitution is defined by the Constitution Act, 1982, non-exclusively. It says "The following are part of the constitution" but it isn't exhaustive. The Constitution also says that the Constitution can only be amended with regards to the composition of the Supreme Court by unanimous consent of the provinces
04:05:57 <elliott> oerjan: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/thrist/0.2/doc/html/Data-Thrist-Monad.html
04:05:58 <coppro> accordingly, no one knows if the Supreme Court Act is in the constitution or not, and so no one knows if it can be amended by Parliament or only by unanimous consent
04:06:16 <elliott> oerjan: i suspect that's similar to the relation of arrows and monads...
04:06:38 <coppro> I mean, the nonexhaustiveness is sometimes useful
04:06:54 <coppro> for instance, parliamentary privilege is taken to be a constitutional power, even though it's not written out in any statute
04:07:10 <elliott> oerjan: ha! they did thrist zippers.
04:07:12 <coppro> same with independence of the three branches
04:07:14 <CakeProphet> elliott: does the UK have a supreme court thing? erase my ignorance.
04:07:22 <elliott> CakeProphet: all our judging is done by a rabbit
04:07:36 <pikhq> CakeProphet: As of a couple years ago, they have a Supreme Court.
04:07:38 <coppro> CakeProphet: It does now.
04:07:47 <pikhq> Prior to that, they had the House of Lords.
04:07:55 <coppro> and for a while it wasn't the entire House
04:08:04 <CakeProphet> Tony Blair or whoever appointed all the judges at once? nice move.
04:08:11 <pikhq> Well, technically it *was*, but most of the house just didn't care. :P
04:08:47 <elliott> oerjan: hmm, these things subsume vectors, I think
04:08:50 <elliott> oerjan: as in, fixed-length
04:09:03 <CakeProphet> actually FDRs "court-packing" bill would not have been a bad idea.
04:09:15 <elliott> oerjan: data Vec a n n' where Elem :: a -> Foo a n (Succ n)
04:09:21 <coppro> CakeProphet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Supreme_Court#Appointments_process
04:09:26 <elliott> oerjan: then PSeq (Vec a) Z len
04:10:58 <pikhq> CakeProphet: It seems that they seeded it with a selection of Law Lords from the House of Lords.
04:11:55 <coppro> pikhq: damn, you're right
04:12:20 <elliott> oerjan: hm this guy's blog makes the interesting point that they could be interesting to build applicative structurse and the like out of, because you can pull them apart as well as run them
04:12:26 <elliott> might make for an interesting esolang, especially the Seq version
04:14:36 <CakeProphet> I think it's kind of weird that presidents are restricted to two terms now.
04:15:03 <CakeProphet> I understand the rationale but I'm not really sure it makes any sense at all.
04:15:20 <CakeProphet> pikhq: blame the congress under FDR, more like.
04:15:48 <oerjan> at least it's less ridiculous than the russian mess
04:15:49 <pikhq> Also, personally I think it's weird that *only* presidents are restricted to two terms.
04:16:04 <pikhq> 2 *consecutive* terms. *groan*
04:16:25 <elliott> oerjan: oh hm the thrist blog also points out that Show for these things is hard
04:16:26 <coppro> pikhq: why is consecutive so weird?
04:16:37 <elliott> oerjan: because consider (5,id) <| (id, 42) <| empty
04:16:44 <coppro> pikhq: also wasn't the point to avoid the president dying while in office thanks to constant reelection
04:16:45 <elliott> oerjan: :: PSeq (,) Int Int
04:16:57 <elliott> oerjan: you don't have forall a b. Show (a,b) obviously, you need a Show constraint on a and b
04:17:03 <CakeProphet> pikhq: okay so I think term restrictions for congress makes sense, but not for the president? does that make sense?
04:17:06 <elliott> but with that, you can't do it because of the above
04:17:23 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Not really.
04:17:30 <elliott> oerjan: you need a pair that bundles the Show constraints basically :(
04:18:10 <pikhq> coppro: Actually, the point of a two term limit was that it was tradition, so might as well make it binding after FDR had the audacity to violate it.
04:18:22 <oerjan> elliott: yeah. btw i think the MetaPath has a similar need for the Exit class
04:18:31 <Sgeo|web> CakeProphet: Um, I'm pretty sure that's not possible
04:18:37 <pikhq> Sgeo|web: Is in Russia!
04:18:37 <elliott> oerjan: i just added it to all the types
04:18:42 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Also true.
04:19:40 <CakeProphet> Sgeo|web: how is that not possible if the only restriction is a maximum of two consecutive terms?
04:20:13 <Sgeo|web> Because the restriction doesn't in fact say consecutive, as far as I'm aware?
04:20:24 <pikhq> Sgeo|web: *It is in Russia*.
04:20:41 <pikhq> The restriction in the US is two terms total.
04:20:59 <oerjan> CakeProphet: surely after Bachmann there won't be enough left of the USA to get another president.
04:21:01 <elliott> oerjan: i suppose I could just use http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/prelude-extras/0.1.0.2/doc/html/Text-Show-Extras.html#t:Show2
04:21:05 <pikhq> oerjan: Basically.
04:21:12 <elliott> oerjan: but actually no, Show2 isn't enough
04:21:18 <elliott> oerjan: because of that hidden type problem
04:21:23 <CakeProphet> oerjan: honestly Bachman is one of the better GOP candidates. sad right?
04:21:28 <pikhq> oerjan: Probably our major territorial claim would be the moon. And that only on arguable technicalities.
04:22:08 <oerjan> pikhq: as in "there's a treaty that says there is no claim in space"?
04:22:36 <pikhq> oerjan: As far as the US is concerned, a "treaty" is "just a law"
04:22:45 <pikhq> We can literally take back treaties.
04:22:50 <pikhq> Because, well... Fuck you all.
04:23:09 <pikhq> (no, I don't understand the rational behind this)
04:23:15 <CakeProphet> pikhq: yes, this logic continues to make sense once the US is gone (except for the moon, except the moon isn't US territory by treaty)
04:23:34 <pikhq> CakeProphet: It continues to make sense if *most* of the US is gone.
04:23:37 <elliott> oerjan: Thrist (Monad' m) a b is actually (Kleisli m a b)
04:23:41 <pikhq> Let's say we're left with Puerto Rico.
04:23:45 <elliott> oerjan: so the arrow relation is very strong
04:23:53 <oerjan> pikhq: oh well, i suppose i vaguely taking back treaties _is_ permitted by international law
04:23:55 <CakeProphet> pikhq: ah yes, our strong military center.
04:24:16 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Not so much "military center" as it is "likely to be ignored in global thermonuclear war"
04:24:37 <oerjan> elliott: you mean Thrist (Kleisli m) ?
04:24:40 <elliott> "This time I shall prove my claim that in Haskell any Control.Arrow instance can be rewritten as a Thrist data structure." heh, neat
04:24:45 <elliott> data Monad' :: (* -> *) -> * -> * -> * where
04:24:45 <elliott> Feed :: Monad m => m b -> Monad' m a b
04:24:45 <elliott> Digest :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> Monad' m a b
04:25:28 <oerjan> elliott: er, a Thrist cannot be just Kleisli because Thrists can be picked apart again
04:25:30 <CakeProphet> pikhq: hmmm, when can we submit to our robot overlords? I'm getting impatient with these imperfect humans.
04:25:45 <elliott> oerjan: oh well I mean, is /run/ as (Kleisli m a b)
04:25:57 <elliott> oerjan: in some sense a thrist seems like inspectable composition
04:26:04 <pikhq> CakeProphet: First we need robot overlords.
04:26:36 * Sgeo|web would like inspectable functions
04:27:00 <elliott> Sgeo|web would like to break parametricity.
04:27:24 <elliott> And with it sane typing, security in an object-capability system, ...
04:28:19 <Sgeo|web> At one point, I have thought about how one might go about sandboxing Picolisp
04:29:00 <CakeProphet> pikhq: surely robot overlordship is only NP-hard.
04:30:47 <elliott> oerjan: "So I am not in bad company announcing that I am preparing a paper about thrists which are the moral equivalents of free categories."
04:30:51 <elliott> oerjan: *sigh* nothing new under the sun
04:31:21 <oerjan> elliott: well i already vaguely knew about thrists
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04:33:00 <elliott> "Finally, the category-theoretic twist: think of the parameter p as the morphisms of a category C (with C's objects being the morphisms' domains and ranges) then Thrist p is essentially the free category of C, often written as C*."
04:33:03 <elliott> gotta love that "essentially"
04:33:38 <oerjan> didn't i use the same word above for PSeq :P
04:39:42 <coppro> pikhq: your 27th amendment is hilarious
04:39:48 <CakeProphet> how do I say "it's okay to change members of this referenced object, but not the entire thing itself"???
04:44:29 <monqy> why are you using c=+
04:45:17 <monqy> yeah I have had and will have classes that use c++ too
04:45:27 <monqy> but presently the only one involving programming is python / it's just as bad
04:45:38 <CakeProphet> monqy: you don't get to laugh about C++ until you program in it.
04:45:47 <monqy> hey, I've programmed in it!
04:46:10 <CakeProphet> okay, well then you should be crying in sympathy.
04:46:11 <monqy> I wrote an x86 compiler in it, albeit a simple compiler for a simple language
04:47:19 <CakeProphet> wait so string literals are strings now and not chars?
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04:47:53 <pikhq> coppro: Neat scam at least.
04:48:04 <monqy> does it depend on where you put them
04:48:12 <CakeProphet> warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to ‘char*’
04:48:19 <CakeProphet> monqy: no I thought they were always char arrays.
04:48:41 <monqy> I forget how c++ does it
04:50:32 <pikhq> CakeProphet: They're const.
04:51:07 <CakeProphet> pikhq: what is the good way to care about this?
04:51:18 <pikhq> C++ is merely *noisier* about the UB than C in this regard.
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04:52:21 <CakeProphet> oh look I think the code they provided us is broken
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04:54:11 <CakeProphet> actually no it has something to do with assigning a string to another string.
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04:56:32 <CakeProphet> pikhq: what might cause assignment of a string to a string reference to segfault?
04:57:09 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Any number of things, most of which involve someone doing nasty things to the STL class.
05:00:22 <CakeProphet> ah and for my earlier question I believe I want const&
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05:02:25 <CakeProphet> but the string I'm assigning to does not :P
05:03:28 <CakeProphet> pikhq: okay so when I say blah = new Type[size];
05:03:42 <Gregor> elliott: Very, very poorly :P
05:03:42 <CakeProphet> pikhq: that doesn't automatically construct a default instance of Type for every element in the array
05:03:48 <Gregor> (And I may have to remove it if it makes the code too big ...)
05:03:57 <elliott> Gregor: But how did you do it :P
05:04:09 <Gregor> elliott: I actually search for the epilogue rather than just assuming it's right before the next function.
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05:04:33 <Gregor> Haven't tested if it breaks everything else yet.
05:07:52 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Yes, that *is* the semantics.
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05:08:35 <CakeProphet> pikhq: you mean the construct-each-element thing is the semantics?
05:08:54 <CakeProphet> hm, okay. well now I know shit all about what's wrong.
05:09:05 <CakeProphet> actually I know the same amount about that, but now have no idea.
05:15:12 <Gregor> pikhq, elliott: I've more-or-less run out of architectures.
05:16:24 <elliott> Gregor: But yeah, Z80 is a good 'un.
05:16:50 <Gregor> PA-RISC could be doable but I'd need a sim (at this point virtually all RISCs are a shoo-in)
05:16:58 <CakeProphet> you know how hash tables have a size and like
05:17:02 <elliott> Gregor: Z80 has 32-bit addressing, I'm pretty sure.
05:17:06 <CakeProphet> your hash function can give you indices larger than your table?
05:17:45 <elliott> Gregor: Hmm, OK, maybe not, but it's not thaaaat 16-bit.
05:18:01 <elliott> Gregor: SIMH emulates a Z80: "SIMH emulates MITS Altair 8800 computer with Intel 8080, Zilog Z80 or Intel 8086 processors."
05:18:07 <pikhq> I mean, sure, it's 16-bit, but it's the PDP.
05:18:47 <shachaf> Gotta address that RAM, man.
05:18:51 <elliott> Gregor: As seen in the Sega Genesis!
05:18:57 <elliott> RISC, 32-bit. Should be trivial.
05:19:03 <elliott> Gregor: And supports two endiannesses!
05:19:09 <Gregor> pikhq: (That doesn't suck foot)
05:19:19 <pikhq> Probably impossible anyways. IA64 makes x86 look normal.
05:19:26 <elliott> Gregor: http://forums.evolutionm.net/ecuflash/220884-superh-emulator.html
05:19:32 <Gregor> elliott: SuperH is the one also known as sh[34], right?
05:19:55 <elliott> http://omnimaga.org/index.php?topic=8015.0 ;; wow googline superh emulator produces such unreliable sourecs.
05:19:55 <Gregor> elliott: Yeah, I had trouble making a working cross-compiler for it.
05:20:03 <Gregor> elliott: qemu has sh4 :P
05:20:26 * elliott has reached the "Other" section of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_instruction_sets :P
05:20:35 <elliott> Gregor: Are you sure you can't try the 6502?
05:20:40 <elliott> Gregor: You would be a hero.
05:21:23 <Gregor> I can't quite figure out the OS situation of MMIX >_>
05:21:29 <Gregor> How do I make a cross compiler with a C library? <_<
05:21:36 <elliott> Gregor: Dude, you WROTE JSMMIX.
05:21:41 <elliott> What did you do to get that running?
05:21:57 <Gregor> elliott: Switched to MIPS.
05:22:04 <Gregor> elliott: But more to the point, it never had an OS.
05:22:11 <elliott> Gregor: I distinctly recall a bash shell before you switched.
05:22:22 <Gregor> elliott: Not even close to close to that.
05:22:55 <elliott> Gregor: Subleq. Before you laugh, there's a sort-of-C->Subleq compiler.
05:23:26 <pikhq> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PicoJava
05:23:30 <elliott> Gregor: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Higher_Subleq
05:23:36 <elliott> Gregor: More C than you might expect.
05:23:42 <elliott> Gregor: (Just skip straight to the examples)
05:23:55 <pikhq> (note: may require a C compiler to be written)
05:24:37 <elliott> Gregor: "The GNU Compiler Collection includes an MMIX back-end for its C/C++ compilers, contributed by Hans-Peter Nilsson and part of the main GCC distribution since late 2001. As of January 2011, the MMIX back-end to GCC continues to be actively developed and maintained by volunteers.
05:24:37 <elliott> Installation instructions for GCC + MMIX tools by Hans-Peter Nilsson.
05:24:37 <elliott> §3.17.26. MMIX Options for GNU GCC version 4.5.2 (GNU GCC Web site).
05:24:37 <elliott> §9.25. MMIX-dependent Features for GNU as from GNU binutils version 2.21, the assembler back-end for GNU GCC (GNU Binutils Web site).
05:24:39 <elliott> The above tools could theoretically be used to compile, build, and bootstrap an entire FreeBSD, Linux, or other similar operating system kernel onto MMIX hardware, were such hardware to exist."
05:24:48 <elliott> Gregor: Not sure what to do for libc though >_>
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05:24:59 <elliott> Gregor: newlib does mmix: http://cygwin.com/ml/newlib/2001/msg00577.html
05:25:13 <Gregor> But can I actually see its output X-P
05:25:25 <elliott> MMIXware – Donald Knuth’s MMIX-SIM simple (behavioral) simulator, MMIXAL assembler, test suite, sample programs, full documentation, and MMMIX architectural (pipeline) simulator (gzipped tar file).
05:25:25 <elliott> MMIXX – An X11-based graphics package contributed by Andrew Pochinsky of MIT’s Center for Theoretical Physics which, when combined with the MMIXware sources above, augments the MMIX virtual machine with a 640×480 pixel, true-color ‘virtual display’ (for UNIX/Linux).
05:26:00 <Gregor> I dont' mean "can I simulate MMIX"
05:26:09 <Gregor> I mean "when I printf, will that go to real stdout"
05:26:14 <CakeProphet> assignment operators in C++ are the hugest pain in the ass...
05:26:17 <Gregor> newlib's default "system" is to stub out write.
05:26:50 <elliott> Gregor: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/mmix-news.html
05:26:52 <elliott> Gregor: Definition of simple I/O, the runtime environment, and the simulator's online/offline iteraction commands (45KB) (final version, 31 August 2011)
05:26:56 <elliott> You could PROBABLY patch in a write?
05:26:56 <Gregor> Oh well, to be investigated tomorrow.
05:27:01 <elliott> Gregor: But I bet it already has a write().
05:27:04 <elliott> There's only one MMIX machine :P
05:27:13 <Gregor> Either way, oh well, to be investigated tomorrow.
05:27:21 <elliott> "The current target date for the ultimate volumes is the year 2020, so there is plenty of time to do the conversion." -- ever the optimist.
05:27:26 <Gregor> (The silly thing is it's practically guaranteed to work)
05:27:36 <pikhq> Wow. One of the IOCCC entries was a Lisp quine.
05:27:52 <pikhq> And a subset-of-Lisp interpreter in C sufficient to interpret itself.
05:28:05 <pikhq> http://ioccc.org/2005/mikeash/mikeash.c
05:29:37 <CakeProphet> according to GCC, I have invalidlty used a member.
05:30:52 <elliott> pikhq: mikeash! I have exchanged approx. ~50 words with that man.
05:31:47 <Gregor> Approximately approximately.
05:32:08 <elliott> (They were all about Classic Mac OS binutils support, to my knowledge.)
05:33:15 <Gregor> http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/eiji-y/vmmmix/vmmmix.html <-- hey look, somebody ported Linux to MMIX
05:34:32 <elliott> Gregor: You mean almost MMIX :P
05:34:34 <elliott> http://www007.upp.so-net.ne.jp/eiji-y/vmmmix/problem.html
05:40:31 <CakeProphet> my guess: the hash function they gave us can produce negative values. ???????
05:41:06 <Sgeo|web> Is there something wrong with negative values for hashes?
05:41:31 <copumpkin> CakeProphet: then just interpret them as unsigned numbers?
05:41:40 <shachaf> copumpkin: Racist! Hashes are Unicode code points!
06:14:27 <Sgeo|web> > length [1 `div` 0, 1 `div` 0, 1 `div` 0, 1 `div` 0, 1 `div` 0]
06:27:17 <Gregor> gcc: Internal error: Illegal instruction (program cc1)
06:28:55 <Gregor> 1145.44 real 1102.56 user 31.51 sys
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06:46:57 <pikhq_> Wow. The total amount spent on NASA is $471 billion.
06:47:30 <pikhq_> For comparison, DOD gets $685 billion a year.
06:47:34 <pikhq_> Imma be depressed now.
06:48:39 <copumpkin> it's not about money, it's about taking things that people know about and cutting them so people know we're serious about saving money
06:49:43 <pikhq_> copumpkin: And not actually being serious, of course.
06:50:06 <pikhq_> If we *were* the military could reasonably get cut way the heck down.
06:50:27 <pikhq_> Perhaps, y'know, not being half of military spending internationally.
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07:27:33 <CakeProphet> I got roughly 1/3rd less fuel efficiency on this tank of gas than my previous.
07:27:51 <pikhq_> All because of your maniac speed?
07:27:53 <CakeProphet> proof that traveling quickly expends more energy than traveling slowly.
07:28:03 <pikhq_> Neat that it has that dramatic of an effect.
07:28:14 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: well I've been driving faster in general.
07:28:50 <CakeProphet> that calculation is just an estimate based on my current miles on this tank vs. fuel gauge position
07:28:56 <CakeProphet> when I fill up tomorrow I can get an exact number.
07:28:57 <pikhq_> It also makes sense; the air resistance goes up, what, quadratically based on current speed?
07:32:27 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: it also depends on surface area for drag.
07:33:34 <CakeProphet> well it depends heavily on a mystical dimensionless ratio called the drag coefficient
07:33:41 <CakeProphet> which I'm sure involves surface area somehow.
07:34:07 <CakeProphet> oh wait no surface area is part of the actual drag equation along with the coefficient I think.
07:36:05 <CakeProphet> I suspect the drag coefficient for my Honda Accord is pretty significant.
07:36:25 <fizzie> You should do that golfball trick the MythBusters tried out to it.
07:37:06 <fizzie> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/10/mythbustersdimple_opt.jpg -- it's not just a drag-reducing method, it's also a fashion statement.
07:37:49 <CakeProphet> mmmm drag coefficient for a 2002 Honda Accord Coupe is 0.32
07:38:02 <CakeProphet> I imagine that's similar to a 1998 Hinda Accord Coupe even though the body style is slightly different
07:39:23 <fizzie> "The show's team completely covered a last-gen Ford Taurus with modelers clay and figured out that it would achieve about 26 mpg at a constant 65 mph. They then went about adding over 1,000 dimples to the car's exterior. To keep the experiment consistent, all 1,082 dimples removed from the clay exterior were put in a box and set in the back seat so that the car would weigh exactly the same as before dimpling. The theory is that, like a golf ball, the dimples wo
07:39:24 <fizzie> uld reduce the car's drag through the air, thus allowing it to travel the same distance at the same speed using less fuel. The result? Over 29 mpg."
07:39:56 <fizzie> I can't quite recall what the original mpg figure for the car was before they covered it with that much clay though.
07:39:58 <elliott> oh gosh there is a picture
07:40:06 <elliott> fizzie: did you see the computer fans with those dimples
07:40:25 <elliott> http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/sharkoon-gg.jpg
07:40:55 <elliott> http://www.sharkoon.com/sites/default/files/products/tl6s08_0.jpg
07:40:58 <fizzie> It looks like it has a skin condition.
07:41:01 <elliott> fizzie: bhehold even moreso
07:41:15 <elliott> http://www.sharkoon.com/sites/default/files/products/big_sharkoon_silent_eagle_2.jpg dmiples
07:41:32 <CakeProphet> fizzie: wow, they got that much fuel efficiency from a Ford? I'm impressed.
07:42:04 <fizzie> The last picture is very artsy.
07:42:52 <CakeProphet> but seriously they should make cars like that.
07:43:18 <CakeProphet> I imagine it's not even that expensive compared to the fuel savings over years of travel.
07:51:15 <fizzie> Also I wouldn't trust any MythBusters numbers as-is; there seems to be something called "FastSkinz" (ugh), some sort of a dimpled plastic wrap for cars, which according to one test doesn't do squat.
07:51:43 <elliott> fizzie: fastskinz just makes me think of like
07:51:49 <elliott> and burning it off and like
07:51:57 <elliott> it's still kinda soggy and burnt
07:52:01 <fizzie> elliott: It's made by SkinzWraps.
07:52:03 <elliott> and you layer it over your car in the blistering heat
07:52:05 <CakeProphet> fizzie: maybe mybthusters did better at the airodieyamicks
07:52:10 <elliott> as it starts to get redder and less pink
07:52:21 <elliott> and then it melts into the car and your car becomes part human and euuuugh
07:52:42 <elliott> monqy i dont want to live any more
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07:53:48 <CakeProphet> fizzie: fastskinz is literally just mass produced sheets that they apply to any car, it seems.
07:54:00 <CakeProphet> Mythbusters created one for a specific body shape.
07:54:37 <fizzie> There's more than one way to skin a car.
07:54:49 <elliott> fizzie: did you envision that mental image well enough to
07:54:53 <elliott> only worsk with black car btw
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07:57:19 <monqy> bunrt peelt flesh cars frend
07:59:13 <elliott> "The US Air Force devised a non-random scheme for promotion. Photograph: David Moir/Reuters" --Guardian
07:59:32 <CakeProphet> one particularly irksome thing is that string vs. char * stuff is stupid and annoying.
07:59:33 <GreaseMonkey> i forget how you're supposed to cast stuff properly in C++ in a way that it stops bitching at you
07:59:46 <elliott> CakeProphet: C++ is so bad because it has no design direction and is far too big, complicated, and self-contradictory for any possible design direction
08:00:05 <GreaseMonkey> if you really want an explicit string class you should just stick with java
08:00:23 <elliott> list of possible C++ criticisms: MSVC++, typecasts, no explicit string cast
08:00:36 <monqy> GreaseMonkey: do you not know the context of this discussion....
08:00:39 <elliott> also hasn't everyone used std::string for like the last
08:00:44 <monqy> GreaseMonkey: it's kind of: essential to: understand it
08:00:48 <elliott> so there's an explicit string class for you
08:01:04 <GreaseMonkey> well i use C hence why i tend not to give a shit about using "string"
08:01:20 <elliott> yeah USUALLY you don't use features of other languages
08:01:20 <CakeProphet> elliott: ifstreams constructor parameter is char *... also its << operator won't take strings I have to allocate an array with associated overflow problems.
08:01:26 <elliott> like perl ties don't appear much in my haskell code
08:01:27 <GreaseMonkey> and whenever i have to typecast something in C++ that refuses to accept my casts, i just pull out the extern "C" block
08:01:44 <CakeProphet> ties should be integral to Haskell programming.
08:01:52 <elliott> CakeProphet: uh its like .cstr() or something to convert an std::string to const char *
08:02:06 <elliott> CakeProphet: I don't think ifstreams have << because... they're input streams
08:02:49 <elliott> CakeProphet: "A global function with the same name exists in header <string>. This global function provides a similar behavior, but with standard C++ string objects instead of c-strings: see getline (string)."
08:02:51 <GreaseMonkey> then again, i'm someone who would rather shoot myself in the foot than fuck around with unnecessary OO-overhead
08:03:08 <monqy> grease "hardcore" monkey
08:03:09 <elliott> CakeProphet: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/operator%3E%3E/
08:03:19 <monqy> you have no idea how hard it was to type monkey properly
08:03:43 <elliott> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/iostream/istream/operator%3E%3E/
08:04:42 <CakeProphet> elliott: another problem with C++: its documentation requires me to read too much.
08:07:37 <CakeProphet> elliott: but anyway, a legitimate complaint about C++: const
08:25:47 <CakeProphet> so what happens when you try to compare an unsigned int with a signed int?
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08:44:23 <olsner> you *might* get a warning
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08:59:05 <elliott> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Bath_Room_Blow_Jobs
08:59:15 <elliott> all it really wants to do is link us to wikipedia
09:36:51 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Elman_srnn.png
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11:30:08 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
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11:54:01 <ais523> I'm teaching at 12, so won't have much time to talk much
11:54:19 <ais523> and actually, I've been here since last time I was here, just the connection here is really unreliable
11:54:27 <ais523> (except when I was printing stuff or eating lunch)
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12:15:06 <fizzie> The art of running away, it seems.
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12:56:02 <elliott> fizzie: Have you ever considered becoming an enterprise?
12:58:29 <fizzie> And then, to boldly go where no nickname has gone before. Also, to detach the saucer, that's also a thing that gets done, ain't it.
12:58:47 <elliott> fizzie: Yes; once at light speed.
12:59:27 <elliott> "Though highly unadvised, it was possible to separate the saucer from the stardrive section at high-warp velocities. Used by Jean-Luc Picard during the first encounter with the Q, the saucer was separated at a warp speed of 9.5. According to Data, it was highly impractical, but possible with no margin for error. The slightest mishap would have made this attempt deadly. It was also required to clear the saucer section from the stardrive section to
12:59:27 <elliott> ensure safety, because as soon as separation was over, the saucer section would start to lose speed, causing danger to the stardrive section. However, Picard was able to successfully separate the saucer in order to protect the families of the Enterprise from the immense power of Q. (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint") "
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12:59:41 <HackEgo> poia: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
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13:45:43 <Gregor> elliott: Works on SH4 (had my x-compiler building at night :P )
13:46:54 <elliott> Gregor: How about... one of Intel's RISC processors? I THINK one of them has their own architecture :P
13:47:04 <elliott> TBH RISC is sooooo boring though.
13:47:19 <elliott> Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_iAPX_432
13:47:24 <Gregor> z/Series does /not/ work, by the way :P
13:48:11 <elliott> Software running on the 432 does not need to explicitly deallocate objects that are no longer needed, and in fact no method is provided to do so. Instead, the microcode implements part of the marking portion of Edsger Dijkstra's on-the-fly parallel garbage collection algorithm (a mark-sweep style collector). The entries in the system object table contain the bits used to mark each object as being white, black, or grey as needed by the collector.
13:48:15 <elliott> Gregor: Holy shit this thing is the best???
13:48:54 <Gregor> Architecture with OO memory. Wow
13:49:21 <elliott> Garbage-collected OO memory :P With built-in IPC
13:50:17 <elliott> Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i860 The other VLIW Intel processor!
13:50:36 <elliott> The other horrible failure of a VLIW Intel processor!
13:51:20 <elliott> Gregor: Are you not even gonna test on a PDP btw? :P
13:51:41 <elliott> PDP, VAXen, and x86 = the world, several times over.
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13:57:29 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: I was teaching some first-year Java students recursion
13:57:52 <ais523> (elliott: it is /so annoying/ to see a question you can easily answer, and not be able to answer it because your Internet connection is refusing to work)
13:58:45 <fizzie> Gregor: Test on the TI TMS320C64x, it's the non-failure non-Intel VLIW. (It's the DSP they have in OMAP3/OMAP4 and therefore in gazillions of mobile phones.)
14:00:19 <elliott> ais523: what's the recommended cure if you start thinking about how wonderful ursala's data model is?
14:01:00 <ais523> elliott: actually using it
14:01:22 <elliott> ais523: but i only like one bit of it! ok, I like the other bits too, but in a totally different way.
14:01:32 <ais523> which bit do you like?
14:02:35 <ais523> oh, I meant actually using the data model
14:02:40 <ais523> not actually using the language
14:03:04 <elliott> how do you "use" a data model? that's rather under-the-hood stuff
14:03:35 <ais523> hmm… I'm beginning to think that the whole static vs. dynamic typing argument is missing the point
14:03:42 <ais523> in that what the two sides are arguing aren't mutually exclusive
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14:04:01 <ais523> (^ only tangentially related)
14:04:22 <elliott> ais523: /me thinks http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/an-old-article-i-wrote/ is relevant
14:04:28 <ais523> and, hmm, you could write a language using the model
14:04:45 <elliott> a conditional is dynamic typing
14:10:25 <elliott> fizzie: Gregor: "The i860 did see some use in the workstation world as a graphics accelerator. It was used, for instance, in the NeXTdimension, where it ran a cut-down version of the Mach kernel running a complete PostScript stack. However, the PostScript part of the project was never finished so it ended up just moving color pixels around. In this role the i860 design worked considerably better, as the core program could be loaded into the cache
14:10:25 <elliott> and made entirely "predictable", allowing the compilers to get the ordering right."
14:11:46 <ais523> Gregor's quest for portability is rather madder than mine
14:11:59 <ais523> I was just planning to check Linux-x86, Linux-ARM, and Windows-x86
14:12:13 <ais523> possibly Linux-x86_64 too, I guess
14:12:22 <elliott> ais523: you're not writing a JIT
14:12:32 <ais523> but I'm planning to run a bunch of different compilers, as it's more a compiler thing that I'm exploiting than an arch thing
14:12:40 <elliott> a massively portable JIT with no platform-specific code is more impressive than a C program just working on a bunch of architectures
14:13:33 <ais523> and I think Gregor testing on a bunch of archs is correct, it'll lead to a more hilarious hints file
14:14:18 <elliott> ais523: which will then be massively elided by the judges? :P
14:14:49 <ais523> nah, they have no motive to elide it but to save a tiny amount of bandwidth
14:15:20 <elliott> ais523: except that the hints files always include judge's comments and "/selected/ author's comments"
14:15:37 <elliott> which never make sense as a complete hints file to send in because they're missing tons of information, usually things the judges have already stated in their own words earlier
14:15:38 <ais523> elliott: but why would they deselect an arch list?
14:16:29 <ais523> it's not too hard to mentally skip over an arch list
14:17:02 <elliott> <ais523> I don't understand why we have editors when I have Ctrl+F
14:17:37 <ais523> elliott: well, I don't typically use editors for /reading/ files
14:17:45 <ais523> relatedly, why doesn't less do syntax highlighting?
14:18:05 <elliott> there really needs to be a way to indicate bad jokes as separate from being dumb
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14:30:39 <Ngevd> Sorry, I had to walk my gran
14:30:50 <Gregor> I still need to rewrite my comments to be more amusing.
14:31:11 <Ngevd> She's got a bad leg
14:31:39 <ais523> hmm, what's the chance that elliott and Ngevd have met each other in real life but didn't recognise each other?
14:31:49 <Gregor> I think people only use the word "walk" as transitive verb when they're referring to pets :P
14:32:02 <Ngevd> Hexham's not a big place
14:32:29 <Gregor> 1297.88 real 1246.13 user 34.41 sys
14:33:08 <Ngevd> Gregor, how's your IOCCC entry going?
14:33:13 <Gregor> Ngevd: I'm talking about it right now :P
14:33:34 <Gregor> Ngevd: x86[_64], SPARC, MIPS[el], ARM, PowerPC[64], Alpha, VAX
14:33:45 <Ngevd> I could compile it...
14:34:00 <Ngevd> On ALMOST ALL THE COMPUTERS I OWN
14:34:17 <Gregor> How about ALL THE 32-bit computers you own?
14:34:50 <elliott> Ngevd: What computer do you own that isn't one of those? An Amiga?
14:35:00 <elliott> Commodore? Atari? I can't think of anything not really old.
14:35:13 <Ngevd> Wii? DS? not sure if they even apply
14:35:48 <elliott> In fact, two different, incompatible ARMs.
14:36:19 <Ngevd> Um, I've got computer that I don't know the architecture of
14:36:23 <Gregor> Almost certainly PPCish enough to run my JIT.
14:36:25 <elliott> Almost certainly PPCish enough for Gregor's JIT to work :P
14:36:58 <Gregor> Ngevd: Eks bawks: Also PPCish
14:37:47 <Ngevd> Relatively old iPod Nano?
14:38:06 <Gregor> Wow, SUN cc's option to not align memory is -misalign.
14:38:13 <Gregor> elliott: Yeah, all the modern game systems are PPCish.
14:38:21 <elliott> Ngevd: ARM: "The iPod Nano uses a PortalPlayer PP5021C "system on a chip" with dual embedded 80 MHz ARM 7TDMI processors."
14:38:28 <Ngevd> Well, my oldish computer uses ARM
14:38:39 <elliott> That I doubt, unless it's a netbook.
14:38:55 <fizzie> Or a Samsung SoC in the second-generation Nano.
14:38:57 <Ngevd> It's got two stickers on it saying "ARM"
14:39:09 <elliott> Gregor: Get Deewiant to test it on OpenSolaris, then you can say you've tested it on REAL UNIX.
14:39:24 <Gregor> elliott: I'm actually on Purdue's Solaris right now :P
14:39:28 <Gregor> elliott: Hence my SUN cc comment.
14:39:37 <elliott> Gregor: But that's not Open!
14:39:40 <Ngevd> No wait, they say AMD
14:39:48 <Gregor> AMD, ARM, what's the diff
14:39:49 <elliott> Gregor: Also, surely "Sun cc".
14:40:08 <Gregor> elliott: It's the one that comes in the SUNcc package.
14:40:14 <elliott> "Sun C compiler" seems to be what Sun called it, but really, SUNcc?
14:40:20 <elliott> Gregor: That's internals :P
14:40:42 <elliott> Gregor: At the MOST, I'll settle for SUN CC.
14:41:08 <Ngevd> Gregor, make it able to be compiled on my digital watch and I'll be amazed
14:41:14 <elliott> Gregor: Sunc is the premier compiler for the Itanic.
14:41:34 <Ngevd> elliott, some sort of Casio
14:41:52 <elliott> I bet that describes ~1,000,000 models of watch.
14:41:55 <Gregor> I'll make it run on the compass.
14:42:02 <Gregor> Using only magnetism for computation.
14:42:35 <fizzie> How about z80? I think TI still makes e.g. the TI-84+ calculator based on that, so it's not "really old". Of course it's not 32-bit, and the computerness is arguable.
14:42:45 <Ngevd> Can it run on GBA SP?
14:42:53 <elliott> Gregor: You should find a way to make it run on reality itself, answering such pressing questions as "is reality a RISC?", "what do reality's function prologues look like?", and "can reality segfault?".
14:43:05 <elliott> fizzie: I told Gregor Z80, he said waaah address space.
14:43:08 <Gregor> All the world's an ARM.
14:43:25 <elliott> Gregor: How can you even use more than like 16 megs of ram
14:43:38 <fizzie> Z80 address space is 64K though.
14:43:48 <Gregor> elliott: Allocating things as [W] where W = 9<<16 :P
14:44:09 <elliott> Gregor: That'll work for the 16 meg one, no?
14:44:53 <Gregor> elliott: And the other thing I allocate as 9<<25 :P
14:45:02 <Gregor> Nowait, I changed that to 9<<16 too ...
14:45:16 <elliott> Gregor: Just do malloc(SLIGHTLYLESSTHANW) if it fails :P
14:45:44 <Gregor> OK, I PROBABLY need about 3MB.
14:45:56 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Grinten_projection Wow, this is definitively the worst map projection /ever/.
14:46:16 <elliott> Being vandalised by xkcd morons >_>
14:46:19 <Gregor> Solaris mmap doesn't like -1 as protection modes :P
14:46:45 <elliott> Ngevd: It has all the advantages of Mercator with none of the advantages of Mercator!
14:47:08 <Gregor> Sun CC seems to generate the most retarded function epilogue imaginable ...
14:47:13 <Ngevd> I like the projection that's like those triangles
14:47:17 <Gregor> 2fed4: 81 c7 e0 08 ret
14:47:17 <Gregor> 2fed8: 81 e8 00 00 restore
14:47:18 <Gregor> 2fedc: 81 c7 e0 08 ret
14:47:18 <Gregor> 2fee0: 81 e8 00 00 restore
14:47:18 <Gregor> 2fee4: 00 01 00 00 illtrap 0x10000
14:47:18 <Gregor> 2fee8: 00 01 00 00 illtrap 0x10000
14:47:20 <Gregor> 2feec: 00 01 00 00 illtrap 0x10000
14:47:22 <Gregor> 2fef0: 00 01 00 00 illtrap 0x10000
14:47:24 <Gregor> 2fef4: 00 01 00 00 illtrap 0x10000
14:47:32 <fizzie> I'm not sure what C compilers there are for eZ80, though, other than Zilog's own best-name-ever "eZ80ZDS0100ZCC" compiler.
14:47:52 <elliott> eZ80ZDS0100ZCC might just be the best name for a compiler, ever.
14:48:00 <elliott> Ngevd: Dymaxion was a strange dude.
14:48:17 <elliott> fizzie: HOW IS IT ACTUALLY CALLED eZ80ZDS0100ZCC
14:48:39 <Ngevd> elliott, Dymaxion's a brand name. You mean Buckminster Fuller
14:48:41 <fizzie> Well, it's a component for the ZDS, the Zilog Developer Studio. I suppose they don't use the full name much.
14:48:48 <fizzie> But that's what the title of the manual is.
14:49:20 <elliott> ais523: suffer through painful irl laughter at that name with me, please
14:49:24 <elliott> <fizzie> I'm not sure what C compilers there are for eZ80, though, other than Zilog's own best-name-ever "eZ80ZDS0100ZCC" compiler.
14:49:39 <ais523> elliott: oh right, just realised what you were referring to
14:49:43 <ais523> I am indeed IRL laughing
14:49:55 <ais523> although it's not that painful, and I managed not to be drinking water at the time
14:50:04 <fizzie> Admittedly the prose only refers to it as "eZ80 C-Compiler", but that's more of a description than a name. I guess it's a matter of semantics.
14:50:11 <elliott> i'm going to call @'s compiler @kjsdf'sd;sa;d'\glsd;ghkshlang
14:50:18 <elliott> sorry need some numbers in there
14:50:19 <elliott> i'm going to call @'s compiler @kjsdf'sd;sa;d'\glsd;ghkshlang2347839423
14:50:57 <elliott> fizzie: I bet the developers working on it anthropomorphise it with a name as catchy as it has.
14:51:06 <elliott> "Oh, little old eZ80ZDS0100ZCC's broken again..."
14:54:53 <fizzie> Hey, AVR32 is a modern 32-bit instruction set you don't have in your list. And it runs Linux and all.
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14:58:24 <fizzie> Gregor: That, and I guess you could consider m68k too. I mean, sure, it's quite obsolete, but VAX.
14:58:49 <elliott> I suggested that upon-a-time.
14:59:53 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Petergray8
15:00:01 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ClueBot_Commons&diff=prev&oldid=461104563
15:00:18 <elliott> who the hell creates a wp account to vandalise anyway :P
15:01:57 <fizzie> Possibly he considers it not vandalism. There are many kinds of folks.
15:04:32 <fizzie> 14:46, 17 November 2011 95.149.230.3 (Undid revision 461104069 by Petergray8 (talk)) (Tag: section blanking)
15:04:32 <fizzie> 13:00, 17 November 2011 Petergray8 (http://www.xkcd.com/977/)
15:04:32 <fizzie> 12:57, 17 November 2011 ClueBot NG (Reverting possible vandalism by Petergray8 to...)
15:04:32 <fizzie> 12:57, 17 November 2011 Petergray8 (http://www.xkcd.com/977/)
15:04:42 <fizzie> What I think he's thinking now: IT KEEPS HAPPENING.
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15:19:22 <ais523> I have no problem with Cluebot arbitrarily removing out-of-place xkcd links
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15:24:06 <elliott> "Avid Reader of XKCD and believe anything stated there should be paralleled here as well." --Petergray8, describing himself, a bad person
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15:40:12 <Ngevd> I went to look at the Fentiman's offices today
15:40:23 <Ngevd> But their floor was being painted
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15:45:22 <Gregor> crosstool-ng seems indecisive about whether it can make an m68k target ...
15:58:32 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523\unfoog.
16:05:13 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: Was there ever a foog clan?
16:05:38 <ais523\unfoog> btw, you can watch me play on termcast.org, I'm termcasting
16:05:48 <elliott> That might help me stay awake.
16:06:06 <elliott> , he says, tuning into Sokoban.
16:08:26 <ais523\unfoog> I tried to persuade xaiph to join, but she doesn't understand ssh
16:08:29 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: How lonely. Can I join? I guarantee I am not distinguishably better at playing NetHack than a bot :-)
16:08:54 <elliott> So you're saying it's a speciesist clan?
16:09:02 <coppro> elliott can pass the turing antitest
16:09:16 <HackEgo> 445) <Sgeo> Will anyone be irritated if I tend to disconnect and reconnect a lot? [...] <oerjan> we _almost_ have an established policy that bots will be banned it they do that. which means we might have to administer a turing test to sgeo, and that could get ugly.
16:09:40 <elliott> You should be able to do the Sokoban levels by just vaulting over the pits.
16:09:43 <ais523\unfoog> a turing antitest would be lost by humans really easily
16:09:56 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: you can do the first one like that; the others, though, you get dragged down by air currents
16:10:01 <elliott> A Turing antitest would be some long equation with a lot of digits that's really easy to compute.
16:10:23 <ais523\unfoog> or for NetHack bots, something along the line of "calculate the distance between the two staircases, you have 0.001 of a second, go!"
16:11:05 <ais523\unfoog> (TAEB523 would probably lose that one, incidentally; it doesn't calculate distances in steps)
16:11:25 <ais523\unfoog> (and uses really heavy caching to optimise distance lookups, and the cache takes several seconds to build)
16:12:09 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: TAEB523 is Planar, presumably?
16:12:40 <elliott> I like how I can tell whether you've noticed I've typed something or not because you stop moving in the termcast.
16:13:08 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: Was that zombie invisible?
16:13:23 <elliott> Very lightly-coloured, by any chance?
16:13:28 <elliott> I'm on a white-backgrounded terminal.
16:13:50 <ais523\unfoog> NetHack sends foreground color codes but not background color codes
16:13:57 <coppro> ais523\unfoog: you thought you could pass the turing test!
16:14:07 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: good; I would have disconnected if it forced me to look at a black background
16:14:15 <elliott> right now most of the screen is legible, rather than none of it
16:14:30 <ais523\unfoog> AceHack sets background too because you never set one without the other
16:14:40 <ais523\unfoog> but I'm thinking of allowing you to swap two color codes for terminal native background/foreground
16:14:59 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: yes, that's one of the main things that annoys me about acehack.
16:15:14 <elliott> the fact that it's possible to clash badly with background colours doesn't mean "impose /more/ of my preferences rigidly" is the correct solution
16:15:28 <ais523\unfoog> it's more a case of "impose preferences without which the game doesn't work"
16:15:36 <ais523\unfoog> arguably, the game should be fixed to work with a white background too
16:17:26 <elliott> The worst part of termcast compared to NAO is that I can't annoy people by sending them in-game mail.
16:17:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:17:57 <elliott> ais523\unfoog, you're walking outside the map. Stop it.
16:18:27 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: You punched holes in the map!
16:18:51 <elliott> I think my terminal just desync'd somehow
16:20:14 <elliott> I wonder what the collective name for snakes is.
16:20:28 <elliott> I know the collective name for mice is "friendship", as in "a friendship of mice".
16:21:44 -!- derrik has left.
16:22:02 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: hmm, are you playing at >80x24?
16:22:09 <ais523\unfoog> it's useful as I have no other method of unlocking things, but a valk's unlikely to get it castable for ages
16:22:28 <elliott> oh, my terminal was 22 high
16:22:37 <ais523\unfoog> and hmm, BoH variant, I may be in trouble if I don't find an asc kit item soon (BoH isn't urgent)
16:23:12 <ais523\unfoog> shall I do this trapping two boulders (the way everyone does it) or trapping no boulders (which is about twice as long, but massively impressive)?
16:23:54 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: I'm biased because watching people play Sokoban is not terrible interesting
16:23:59 <elliott> but impressiveness is always good I suppose
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16:24:36 <elliott> You should do it my way (well, it was the other map), which is trapping like fifty boulders, ending up with too few, and killing one of your five kittens in the process of getting more.
16:25:52 <elliott> It... looks sort of messed up, but I'm no expert.
16:27:42 <ais523\unfoog> it's still better than the usual solution where two are trapped
16:28:02 <elliott> You forgot the five kittens.
16:28:05 <elliott> Ngevd: $ telnet termcast.org
16:28:08 <elliott> then press the letter for ais523
16:32:21 <elliott> El-berhte/ehlbereth0EleberthElerberetheElber*(48thEeb*($H$)XthElbereth
16:35:37 <ais523\unfoog> oh come on, first time I do the Sokoban zoo without waking it, and there's a leprechaun blocking the door to the prize
16:38:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:41:02 <elliott> raven get out of the dungeon
16:44:37 -!- augur has joined.
16:46:55 <elliott> yay mines, full of nice hapyp gomes
16:47:24 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: I possibly won't even mercilessly slaughter them!
16:47:39 <ais523\unfoog> the thing about being lawful in NetHack, is that monsters believe you'll be law-abiding regardless of whether you actually are or not
16:47:43 <elliott> ais523\unfoog does not know the delights of being at peace with the gnomes.
16:48:19 <elliott> hmm, ais523\unfoog's gratuitous use of ctrl+move makes me feel better about my constant usage of it
16:48:37 <elliott> why press a direction key twice when you can combine it with ctrl instead?
16:48:38 <ais523\unfoog> heh, I'd be using autoexplore sometimes if it existed in vanilla
16:48:58 <ais523\unfoog> as it stops when you're in trouble, unlike holding the key down
16:49:38 * elliott would like roguelikes a lot more if they didn't involve so much micromanagement of simple map navigation
16:49:58 <elliott> I should just be able to glance at a tile and say "over there" and be walked there. :p
16:50:55 <ais523\unfoog> you can, that's what the _ command is for; it's just that specifying the tile needs cursor movement or a click
16:51:33 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: well, yes; that's considerably more work than glancing :)
16:52:09 <elliott> Plus speech recognition!! Best roguelike!
16:53:20 <ais523\unfoog> (don't worry, I'm not actually planning to take it out of the bag)
16:54:44 <elliott> I find Minetown's design somewhat perplexing.
16:57:11 <ais523\unfoog> the portal is a /dev/null thing, I think it's just placed randomly on the level
16:58:12 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: hmm, don't recall a portal :) but i've only been idly watching
17:00:07 <ais523\unfoog> I'm wondering whether to risk trying it; I can't remember if failing it can still leave you permanently trapped (I'm guessing no)
17:00:27 <ais523\unfoog> failing it /does/ make the current game basically unwinnable until you go succeed at it on another server
17:00:55 <ais523\unfoog> and I really want a ?oCharging before I try it, and I won't have one of those IDed for ages
17:01:01 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:01:25 <elliott> (note: this reply does not consider your current situation; it is based purely on the structure of the question)
17:02:42 <elliott> you know it's good when it starts with an elbereth
17:03:39 -!- elliott has changed nick to qqq.
17:03:41 <qqq> @tell elliott test
17:03:43 -!- qqq has changed nick to elliott.
17:03:46 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
17:05:31 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: i love distorted elbereths
17:06:42 <elliott> did I just ruin anouther tournament game for you?
17:07:23 <elliott> nethack needs control structures
17:08:59 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: try poking itto death
17:10:08 <ais523\unfoog> oh wow, that was a really crazy offchance and it /actually happened/
17:10:35 <elliott> im not sure pooka is fooled
17:11:18 <ais523\unfoog> I'll have to go play on a different server to recover from that
17:11:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:11:41 <elliott> taeb523 is ugly on this terminal
17:13:10 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: I'm going to startscum wizards on clan EIT's server
17:15:29 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: grr, that "would you like to return" message is missing a space and uses (y/n) in place of the proper [yn]
17:15:48 <ais523\unfoog> also, makes me press return after typing y, unlike every other prompt in NetHack
17:17:20 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: that's more understandable, it takes more than a few chars of patch to fix that :)
17:17:27 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: also, it has two spaces after the prompt...
17:18:34 <elliott> wand of dangerously inflate is definitely name of the century imo
17:18:58 <ais523\unfoog> that name is the only good thing about the digdug challenge ;)
17:19:12 <ais523\unfoog> I /suspect/ you aren't supposed to be able to trivialise the movement around the level with E-coining
17:19:18 <elliott> wow, i just realised what @'s equivalent of database indexes, and the answer makes me very happy
17:21:09 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:22:06 <ais523\unfoog> I can have fun with +oFear after a while, at least
17:23:45 <ais523\unfoog> kitten why are you fetching gems, you know they're worthless
17:23:56 -!- Ngevd has joined.
17:24:25 <ais523\unfoog> I tend to give cats female names, for whatever reason
17:24:38 <Ngevd> I may rewrite Homestuck as a epic poem
17:24:56 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: because kitten is not smart kitten is just happy???
17:25:04 <Ngevd> In the style of, for example, the Odyssey
17:25:07 <elliott> and gems are pretty............
17:25:24 <Ngevd> "Tell me muse, of the tale of Sburb"
17:25:25 <elliott> (i am projecting onto the kitten)
17:25:48 <Phantom_Hoover> <ais523\unfoog> kitten why are you fetching gems, you know they're worthless
17:25:48 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
17:26:10 <Ngevd> I think that may be didactic hexhameter
17:26:20 -!- augur has joined.
17:26:26 <Ngevd> Without the second h
17:28:12 <elliott> this channel is hexham + helsinki + feather
17:28:15 <Ngevd> And I meant dactylic, not didactic
17:33:41 <ais523\unfoog> wow, only 31% fail on force bolt even with metal armour?
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17:44:47 <Gregor> So what OS name am I supposed to use in an MMIX triple?
17:47:20 * Gregor proceeds to use mmix-unknown-mmix as if that makes any sense.
17:47:32 <Gregor> Nope, doesn't like that ...
17:47:38 <Gregor> mmix-unknown-mmixware?
17:53:00 <Gregor> *** Configuration mmix-unknown-mmixware not supported GCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
17:53:07 <Gregor> (That was supposed to be "GCSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
17:53:27 <Ngevd> Try changing that to A-level
17:54:07 <Gregor> How do I target GCC for this >_<
17:56:29 <Gregor> mmix-mmixware apparently.
17:56:33 <Gregor> mmix-unknown-mmixware is no-go
18:01:33 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:15:02 <Gregor> 1. 4000000000000094: 27fefe10 (SUBUI) privileged instruction!
18:15:30 <Gregor> How do I tell mmix "I am privileged, let me run privileged instructions"
18:17:02 <Gregor> ais523\unfoog: Arguably. I have no mmap, so I'm just plopping instructions into malloc'd space and then executing them. Probably doing that requires some privs.
18:18:46 <Gregor> I'll bet it would work too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids.
18:19:05 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
18:19:29 <ais523\unfoog> Gregor: can't you mprotect the malloced area to be executable/
18:19:40 <Gregor> ais523\unfoog: No mprotect either.
18:20:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
18:22:04 <Gregor> Either that, or subtraction is a privileged operation :)
18:22:04 -!- Ngevd has joined.
18:22:46 <Gregor> The obnoxious thing is, looking at the code, I'm confident this would work.
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19:12:33 <monqy> We've the Fifteen best 3d tv Next year worlwide : and put each one of style a single spot intended for your current verdic-doing pleasure.
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19:28:38 <olsner> the knowledge that Brunt is also played by jeffrey combs is really hard to integrate
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19:41:09 <CakeProphet> ]http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/11/17/142414818/americans-are-fat-and-expected-to-get-much-fatter?sc=fb&cc=fp
19:41:14 <CakeProphet> this is the most shocking news I've read in a long time.
19:51:43 <CakeProphet> seriously why are we not cutting military spending this is obscene.
19:54:25 <CakeProphet> I'm going to laugh if they rescind the automatic sequestration that's supposed to occur if the supercommittee doesn't reach an agreement.
19:55:50 <CakeProphet> Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has warned Congress that automatic across-the-board cuts to the Pentagon's budget would "invite aggression from U.S. adversaries."
19:55:55 <CakeProphet> holy crap this is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.
19:56:36 <pikhq_> I think the only people that would be actively *agressive* against the US would do well to handle a single guy from Texas.
19:56:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: The Other Game).
19:57:05 <pikhq_> Rather than, y'know, just pretty damned annoyed at the US because we *haven't* cut the military. :P
19:57:14 <CakeProphet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
19:57:28 <Ngevd> Per capita Switzerland has the highest
19:57:39 <CakeProphet> and then tell me that cutting $600 billion over a decade from that
19:57:49 <CakeProphet> will make us INCREDIBLY VULNERABLE TO ATTACK.
19:58:09 <pikhq_> OH NO CHINA MIGHT ATTACK THEIR SINGLE LARGEST TRADING PARTNER
19:58:20 <pikhq_> FOR REASONS UNBEKNOWNST TO ME
19:58:47 <Ngevd> It could be 1812 all over again!
19:58:55 <Ngevd> Except with a different country!
19:59:54 <CakeProphet> we could cut from the military, pay off the deficit, and still be spending well over /quadruple/ what the next highest country in military expenditure spends on its military.
20:03:17 <CakeProphet> the news tends to cover how much money programs will make in a decade or whatever.
20:03:34 <CakeProphet> but it's really more about whether or not it will reverse the expenditure/revenue disparity.
20:05:06 <pikhq_> We could also divert that funding to NASA, and have 50x'd the NASA budget.
20:05:23 <pikhq_> And probably produce rather absurd economic growth from not throwing that money onto a burn pit.
20:06:48 <CakeProphet> but people see "$600 billion over a decade" and then look at a 15 trillion dollar deficit and think "oh well that's really not going to help at all this is pointless"
20:07:10 <CakeProphet> they should present in terms of how much it changes cost vs. revenue.
20:07:47 <olsner> characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode
20:08:23 <pikhq_> olsner: What's worse is that if you consider debt to GDP ratio, the US isn't that bad.
20:08:52 <pikhq_> olsner: That would involve more meta than audiences are usually comfortable with.
20:10:26 <CakeProphet> look at the section titled "largest budget items"
20:10:37 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: We're nearing 100%.
20:10:41 <CakeProphet> now pick the ones you'd be most comfortable cutting.
20:10:56 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Japan is currently sitting at around 250%.
20:11:09 <pikhq_> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Public_debt_percent_gdp_world_map_%282010%29.svg
20:12:05 <pikhq_> What's really effing crazy is Japan is pretty close to the US national debt *in absolute terms*.
20:12:24 <CakeProphet> we should just make less of a deal about our debt?
20:12:38 <pikhq_> It's a *little* bit of an issue, but yes, it really is overblown.
20:13:15 <pikhq_> Most developed nations have rather high national debt, and have for ages.
20:13:49 <CakeProphet> politicans are kind of intelligent, or at least some of them are
20:13:51 <pikhq_> This is in part because the government loaning money is a major part of the basis of the worth of fiat currency.
20:16:29 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: well, it's a systematic problem that can easily become worse (the deficit)
20:16:40 <CakeProphet> something worth fixing now before it gets truly problematic.
20:17:06 <pikhq_> The key to doing that is actually rather simple: don't have a budget deficit.
20:17:18 <pikhq_> That would require military cuts.
20:17:28 <pikhq_> Hence why it's not happened.
20:18:03 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: WE NEED THE MILITARY BUDGET OF SEVERAL POWERFUL NATIONS COMBINED IN ORDER TO COMBAT NON-STATE GUERILLA FORCES.
20:18:26 <pikhq_> Heck. I'd imagine if we just got rid of military bases in countries that have been stable in the long term and aren't near nations that *aren't*, we'd have pretty much gotten rid of the budget deficit.
20:18:39 <pikhq_> So. Goodbye, bases in Europe.
20:19:07 <pikhq_> Goodbye, last vestiges of the US occupation of Japan.
20:19:26 <pikhq_> Sadly can't do anything at all about South Korea; nominally that's still a war zone.
20:20:47 <pikhq_> Also: say the fuck goodbye to Australia and Canada (why we have bases there is beyond me)
20:21:09 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: SO THAT WE CAN ASSIST OUR ALLIES IN THEIR TIME OF NEED.
20:21:28 <CakeProphet> when the nazi terrorists land on the shores of Canada will be ready to nuke them.
20:22:37 <olsner> nuke canada? sounds like the natural reaction yes
20:22:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:22:52 <Phantom__Hoover> <olsner> characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode
20:23:25 <olsner> Phantom__Hoover: yes, as always recently, about a season left of it
20:24:04 <Phantom__Hoover> pikhq_, wow, looking at that debt graph, the UK isn't as bad as I'd have thought.
20:24:22 <olsner> no, this was 6x24 - Time's Orphan... molly goes into a time thingamajig
20:24:33 <CakeProphet> olsner: well it was kind of to highlight the lack of sense that happens when you think about war in terms of conventional/nonconventional warfare and nuclear warfare at the same time.
20:24:49 <Phantom__Hoover> Looking at it further, I'm seriously doubting the usefulness of it as a metric.
20:24:50 <CakeProphet> but, yes that's the best course of action.
20:25:16 <pikhq_> Phantom__Hoover: It seems to be only loosely useful as a metric.
20:25:25 <CakeProphet> Phantom__Hoover: I doubt /your/ usefulness as a metric.
20:25:32 <pikhq_> What's more important, IME, is ability and willingness to repay debt.
20:26:09 <Phantom__Hoover> I'm overflowing with x, y such that x /= y, Phantom__Hoover(x,y) = 0.
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20:31:20 <olsner> Phantom__Hoover: well, in dominion war plots, success could happen that early because there are ways to go after that...
20:31:33 <olsner> but in your basic get problem/solve problem plot like this, you can only have failed solutions until the end of the episode
20:32:35 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: what would be bad is if lawmakers decide to cut medicare / social security instead of military spending.
20:32:46 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Also impossible.
20:32:50 <pikhq_> That would hurt old people.
20:33:09 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: yes, and those are the two main alternatives
20:33:15 <pikhq_> Get rid of their social security and you get a lynch mob.
20:33:35 <pikhq_> Of old people, mind, but a lynch mob is still nothing to fuck around with.
20:33:51 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: but apparently Rick Perry wants to cut education? wtf
20:34:10 <CakeProphet> has anyone won the presidency on an offer to cut SPENDING AWAY FROM THE FUTURE OF OUR CHILDREN
20:34:38 <olsner> education gets you smart people, and smart people are boring as well as scary in the eyes of stupid people
20:34:54 <olsner> obviously the proper approach is to stop educating people
20:36:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:36:02 <olsner> oh, replace "smart" with "educated" there, different things...
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20:45:16 <oerjan> ais523\unfoog: c'est spam on le wiki
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21:01:14 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: oh hey so I started talking about military spending on facebook and one of my friends who has a husband in the military was like "lol military spending, that's funny"
21:02:11 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: I'd imagine part of her reaction to that is because, well, our military spending is *moronic*.
21:02:19 <pikhq_> Billions on a useless device? Okay!
21:02:31 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: er I meant to say /military spending/cut military spending/
21:02:40 <pikhq_> Supply soldiers basic amenities? Eh, if we feel like it, maybe.
21:03:06 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: she equates "cut military spending" with "leave soldiers who need vital equipment defenseless"
21:12:10 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: also if we diverting funding from the military into NASA
21:12:17 <CakeProphet> not only would we get civilian technological advancements
21:12:53 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to and.
21:13:25 <Ngevd> and, I resume the nick-change is related to other-channel shenanigans
21:14:03 <Ngevd> How do you do that again?
21:14:26 -!- and has changed nick to copumpkin.
21:14:34 <HackEgo> copumpkin: exec: 9: welcome: not found
21:14:41 <HackEgo> copumpkin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
21:19:02 <oerjan> `echo '#!/bin/sh\n@ \"$1 ? welcome\"' >bin/welcome
21:19:04 <HackEgo> '#!/bin/sh\n@ \"$1 ? welcome\"' >bin/welcome
21:19:15 <oerjan> `run echo '#!/bin/sh\n@ \"$1 ? welcome\"' >bin/welcome
21:19:25 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh\n@ \"$1 ? welcome\"
21:20:08 <oerjan> `run echo "#!/bin/sh\n@ "'"$1 ? welcome"' >bin/welcome
21:20:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh\n@ "$1 ? welcome"
21:20:27 <HackEgo> chmod: missing operand after `+x bin/welcome' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information.
21:21:42 <oerjan> `run (echo "#!/bin/sh"; echo '@ "$1 ? welcome"') >bin/welcome
21:21:50 -!- Sgeo|web has joined.
21:21:51 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ @ "$1 ? welcome"
21:22:03 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/welcome
21:22:12 <HackEgo> whoever: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
21:22:22 <HackEgo> The: exec: 9: Pope: not found
21:22:34 <HackEgo> 'The: exec: 9: Pope': not found
21:22:38 <HackEgo> The: exec: 9: Pope: not found
21:23:44 <HackEgo> Oprah: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
21:23:44 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if echo "$1" | grep -c ' ' >/dev/null; then \ echo -n "$1" | sed 's/ .*/: /' \ exec $(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ else \ echo -n "$1: " \ shift \ exec "$@" \ fi \
21:24:04 <CakeProphet> oerjan: well it needs to know when the name ends and the command begins
21:24:23 <CakeProphet> restricting the name to one word (since it's supposed to be an IRC nick) is totally reasonable
21:24:42 <HackEgo> The: exec: 9: Pope: not found
21:24:52 <HackEgo> ThePope: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
21:29:15 <HackEgo> ThePope: : Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
21:29:42 <HackEgo> ThePope: asshole: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
21:30:28 <CakeProphet> here we see the noble viking savage Oerjan perplexed by the workings of combining bash scripts.
21:31:06 <CakeProphet> he is likely playing with the large pointy horns atop his helmet.
21:31:12 <CakeProphet> because that is totally a thing vikings have.
21:31:44 <oerjan> oh wait, horns? no way. horns are for cows
21:33:35 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:35:11 <olsner> though it seems to be missing one of its horns, I suspect it became a drinking glass at some point
21:36:16 <CakeProphet> oerjan: you've never had American light beer, I see.
21:36:33 <olsner> CakeProphet: assorted alcoholic beverages of unspecified kind
21:36:46 <oerjan> vinland is irrelevant. _norse_ beer is good.
21:37:50 <CakeProphet> oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Norse-world.png
21:38:14 <olsner> oerjan: norse beer... like ringnes?
21:38:46 <oerjan> the swede seems to be brewing up a fight
21:43:40 <CakeProphet> oerjan: so what's it like being superior to all other races?
21:44:54 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Goodbye).
21:44:57 <CakeProphet> yes, I imagine Hitler would have great respect for you if his empire still existed today. :>
21:50:26 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/perl \ /usr/bin/test
21:51:53 <oerjan> i think test only acts by exit code...
22:09:23 <oerjan> `run (echo '#/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo '$_ = $ARGV[0]; if ($_) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }') >bin/welcome
22:09:45 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/welcome
22:09:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:09:53 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/welcome: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `{' \ /hackenv/bin/welcome: line 2: `$_ = $ARGV[0]; if ($_) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }'
22:10:01 -!- Sgeo|web_ has joined.
22:10:25 <HackEgo> #/usr/bin/perl -w \ $_ = $ARGV[0]; if ($_) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }
22:10:34 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
22:11:10 <Sgeo|web_> CakeProphet: Do you want me to start being your notifier, or are you somehow peeking ahead?
22:12:22 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:12:25 <Phantom__Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/mfpxi/if_starlight_is_extremely_old_if_someone_were_to/c30ladn?context=3
22:12:50 <Vorpal> @tell elliott If everything goes well a new super-resolution Skyrim pano will be ready during the weekend. I found the fov switch in the skyrim console :)
22:13:06 <Phantom__Hoover> Vorpal, shut up about Skyrim you bastard the pain is too much
22:14:04 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, what? aren't you getting a new computer?
22:14:38 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, displaying astonishing attention to detail, recommended a mini-ATX case.
22:14:56 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, he what
22:15:02 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, I hope you didn't buy that?
22:15:26 <Phantom__Hoover> Yes; it was an honest mistake, and I had to look quite hard to find that detail on the product page.
22:15:26 <CakeProphet> Sgeo|web_: I was actually just fooling you into thinking there was more
22:15:36 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, so you ordered it. ouch
22:15:37 <CakeProphet> I should have known that you hit refresh constantly waiting for updates
22:15:42 <CakeProphet> and thus already know that there are no new updates
22:15:51 <Phantom__Hoover> Vorpal, Scan seem to have a reasonable enough return policy.
22:16:28 <Phantom__Hoover> But anyway, I ordered a replacement on Tuesday, only to discover today that my card was blocked after the original purchase.
22:16:39 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, that is good at least
22:16:44 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, what?
22:17:17 <Phantom__Hoover> In case of fraud; the purchasing history for that card is something like £8 £8 £8 £8 £750.
22:17:41 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, call the bank then?
22:18:12 <Phantom__Hoover> But I'd already ordered the replacement by then, and Scan don't give a decent way to cancel the order, and it seems I ordered the last of that case in stock; elliott's absence prevents me from working around that.
22:18:13 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net).
22:18:28 -!- Vorpal has joined.
22:18:53 <Phantom__Hoover> Scan also haven't cancelled the purchase from the blocked card, so I have no idea whether it'll go through once that's cleared up.
22:18:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:18:58 <Vorpal> okay that was stupid. Messed up by starting ipv6 tunnel on two computers at once
22:19:55 <Vorpal> depending on what you count
22:20:03 <Phantom__Hoover> By that point, the motherboard, CPU and RAM will have been sitting assembled in an anti-static bag in an in-use utility room for nearly a week and my paranoia will have gone through the roof.
22:21:03 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, don't you start with mounting the mobo in the case?
22:21:07 <Vorpal> then do all the other stuff
22:21:14 <Vorpal> that is how I did it always
22:21:23 <Phantom__Hoover> Vorpal, yes; I only realised the form factor was wrong after I'd put it all together.
22:21:45 <olsner> just put it on your desk like a proper *desktop computer* and start using it until the case gets there
22:23:01 <Phantom__Hoover> Leaving it assembled was basically the only option I could see at the time, particularly as I thought I'd only be waiting for a couple of days.
22:25:27 <Sgeo|web_> Robotfindskitten: Good game, best kitten
22:27:08 <oerjan> `run (echo '#/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo 'if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }') >bin/welcome
22:27:17 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/welcome
22:27:26 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/welcome: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `$_=shift' \ /hackenv/bin/welcome: line 2: `if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }'
22:27:54 <oerjan> `run (echo '#!/usr/bin/perl -w'; echo 'if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }') >bin/welcome
22:27:59 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/welcome
22:28:06 <HackEgo> test: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:28:21 <HackEgo> The: Pope: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:28:28 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:34:51 <HackEgo> Barack_Obama: Oprah: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:35:26 <CakeProphet> for the day when Barack Obama and Oprah simultaneously join.
22:35:29 <HackEgo> CakeProphet: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:38:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:55:20 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:06:18 <CakeProphet> "TG: and was like shit yes i ALL KINDS of know how to use my web browser to download serveral files
23:17:45 <Gregor> Thought of a tooootally different way to JIT.
23:23:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:25:34 <Gregor> Vorpal: I'll wait to see if it works at all first :P
23:27:46 -!- Sgeo|web_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:28:50 <Vorpal> Gregor, do you think it will take long?
23:29:01 <Vorpal> Like, next hour? Tomorrow? Next week?
23:32:03 <Vorpal> Gregor, oh well, going to put this computer to sleep and go to bed. @tell me if it worked or not, so I know if I should bother looking through logs for how it worked.
23:33:39 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
23:42:37 <Gregor> I wonder if memcpy(a, NULL, 0) would consistently not segfault on all systems ...
23:48:42 <Gregor> By no logic should that work.