< 1321834378 908518 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As the game has just been released, only a moderate amount is known about the gameplay. Although there is a decent amount of information that has been shown, it appears as though this information only scratches the surface." < 1321834383 204486 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from elder scrolls wiki < 1321834403 92870 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how people are just assuming that Skyrim has all these uncovered secrets < 1321834414 66383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they've bought into too much hype. < 1321834416 637737 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, if you're a munchkin < 1321834431 46861 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you're reading the wiki, you're a munchkin. < 1321834444 171774 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a munchkin? < 1321834461 653396 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a creature from the wizard of oz. hth. < 1321834516 235394 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their wiki-reading powers were even more impressive as they had no computers < 1321835083 750285 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Regarding that paging algorithm anecdote a couple days ago which you asked if had anything to do with synchronicity - today's GLL is about the question: http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/another-annoying-open-problem/ < 1321835084 157582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1321835097 508481 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1321835969 618181 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so apparently the bound weapons in skyrim are equivalent to ebony weapons in damage. < 1321836006 790368 :simpleirc966!~simpleirc@189.82.119.106 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321836013 15243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also scale with your weapon skill (one-handed skill improves the damage of bound sword). which means they're retardedly good at early levels. < 1321836074 404736 :simpleirc966!~simpleirc@189.82.119.106 PART :#esoteric < 1321836260 441336 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might actually try dual-wielding bound swords instead of using a shield, and then later once I get nice enchanted weapons and use those (and then use the bound sword to refill soul gems) < 1321836439 203203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed in the complete lack of variety of spells in this game though. There are only three conjured weapon spells now instead of bound boots, bound bow, bound cuirass, bound dagger, bound gauntlets, bound greaves, bound helmet, bound mace, bound shield, etc, etc < 1321836443 115749 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in oblivion < 1321836554 61207 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted most of the bound armor spells are probably not very good, but they could have kept the variety of weapon conjuration spells < 1321836604 581524 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spell system is so horribly unrealistic < 1321836628 618431 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :P < 1321837312 362424 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bound Mead < 1321838442 138817 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1321838962 338173 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: presumably the alcohol would leave your system once the conjuration spell wears out. < 1321838983 905286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instant hangover cure! < 1321839109 951388 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, I have played, Dungeons and Dragons game. < 1321839239 196790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1321839766 154286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: bye < 1321841296 289872 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* Canterbury Tales is perhaps the most pointless feature of an English class. It's *literally in a different language* for goodness sake! < 1321841357 990749 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This complaint brought about by listening to my little sisters. < 1321841389 41195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but it's such a good story about uh < 1321841391 778049 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...whatever it's about. < 1321841402 151761 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we did have some norse myths in norwegian class < 1321841418 178927 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Were they in the original Old Norse? < 1321841422 261428 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1321841429 380687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fucking cruel. < 1321841434 824862 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :norse myths are way more awesome than Canterbury Tales though. < 1321841435 900667 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And pointless. < 1321841453 556071 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does have the redeeming factor that Norse myths are way more awesome than Canterbury Tales. < 1321841483 456275 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was only a taste during one year of high school though, afair < 1321841513 107055 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also some swedish and danish < 1321841532 396671 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no British mythology in schools? Did none of the writing survive? < 1321841552 849829 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no single "British mythology". < 1321841562 215554 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is there other than beowulf? < 1321841630 656677 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Norse mythology is itself a version of Germanic mythology; the Anglo-Saxons had their own. < 1321841646 341008 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: remind me. what's the best way to grab a list of numbers from a line of input -- oh nevermind (map read . words) <$> getLine < 1321841648 112664 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, that has survived < 1321841672 950004 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parentheses not necessary < 1321841675 13788 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best way as in simplest not necessarily the safest industry strength shit ever. < 1321841699 416703 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well that'll obviously break if there's any misformatting < 1321841705 105916 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1321841706 881802 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fine < 1321841719 116357 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this a program to calculate averages from a list of numbers :) < 1321841720 934158 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Random samplings of things; nothing exceptionally *long*, though. Beowulf is the only surviving epic poem of the era. < 1321841792 86765 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah as was my impression < 1321841804 592980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news: length is stupid. genericLength is good. < 1321841805 414666 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, Anglo-Saxon myths aren't the only bits of English mythology. The Celts are also from the British Isles. :) < 1321841833 615629 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally just went through an entire thread of discussion with multiple haskell nubs being completely baffled on how to write a simple averaging program. < 1321841839 472747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sum ls / length ls does not work < 1321841853 857800 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it probably shouldn't. < 1321841873 81253 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually even genericLength doesn't work iirv < 1321841874 781432 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c < 1321841879 812628 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t genericLength < 1321841880 555916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b i. (Num i) => [b] -> i < 1321841880 816831 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it does < 1321841883 310854 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1321841891 260206 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = [1,2,3] in sum x / genericLength x < 1321841891 713274 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it might be Integral < 1321841892 203431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2.0 < 1321841899 45008 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it should be. < 1321841951 5416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is the $ even necessary in forever $ do ... < 1321841957 247160 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1321841964 274479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1321841971 468362 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes sese. < 1321841973 558000 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sense < 1321842015 64189 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\, do and let cannot be used directly as arguments < 1321842018 609198 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems reasonable that you could omit parenthesis around a do block and they would be placed explicitly around it. < 1321842035 66643 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with explicit parens being used in situations where you have something trailing the do block in the expression < 1321842048 258083 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, $ is perfectly fine. -uses that- < 1321842057 652579 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1321842060 32897 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implicitly :P < 1321842061 968225 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i was surprised way back when i discovered it, too < 1321842071 542683 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that it doesn't work) < 1321842077 889971 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1321842126 784128 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle genericLength < 1321842127 189022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List genericLength :: Num i => [b] -> i < 1321842141 263797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw no Prelude < 1321842147 114130 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1321842163 647492 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much import Control.Monad and Data.List without even considering if I need them or not < 1321842166 741164 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1321842169 136300 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably will < 1321842173 245906 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1321842175 26307 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably Control.Applicative but sometimes not < 1321842204 430229 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they're like secondary syntax < 1321842242 313796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that <$> should be Control.Monad < 1321842247 394307 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe just in Prelude or something. < 1321842303 367133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative makes sense though, as its used in the f <$> x <*> y idiom < 1321842304 844680 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in .ghci < 1321842326 707347 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1321842329 120621 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but <$> really has nothing to do with Applicative. :P < 1321842335 248723 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or monads I guess...) < 1321842358 536306 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that monads and applicatives are functors. < 1321842417 825261 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle f a -> f b -> f b < 1321842418 78319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative (*>) :: Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f b < 1321842418 527467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b < 1321842418 572824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b < 1321842464 861022 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1, 2, 3] *> [4,5,6] == [1,2,3] >> [4,5,6] < 1321842465 718726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1321842465 993978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix `Control.Applicative.*>' [infixl 4... < 1321842474 140223 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ([1, 2, 3] *> [4,5,6]) == ([1,2,3] >> [4,5,6]) < 1321842475 3145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321842536 512368 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Haskell should just have a FunctorApplicativeMonad class. yes, that's a good name for it. < 1321842690 130881 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i think <$> is also exported from Data.Functor < 1321842727 766752 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I never actually import that. :P < 1321842753 892436 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: well if they fixed the missing subclassing mess, Monad should reexport Applicative should reexport Functor < 1321842762 992574 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1321842784 446526 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad never seems to have <$>. let me double check. < 1321842797 120364 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course not. < 1321842817 201376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad should reexport Applicative should reexport Functor < 1321842818 942496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1321842825 523625 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a function of Monad or any current superclass < 1321842834 810126 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: *Data.* < 1321842837 658200 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1321842838 893101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1321842846 79240 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Monad rexports Functor transitively < 1321842848 820389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is <$> not there? < 1321842858 542880 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't say it did, i said it _should_ do it < 1321842879 222537 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once Monad becomes a real subclass of Applicative < 1321842888 902021 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought you meant the kind of "should" that means "I'm fairly certain this is the truth" < 1321842901 777480 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the normative "this is how it should be but is not" version :P < 1321842921 734361 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see my tenses could be interpreted as "this has already happened" < 1321842925 922058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes that should happen in Haskell 2020 < 1321842943 126023 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingers crossed < 1321842963 968202 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to painstakingly collect statistics from a dumb questionnaire thing. < 1321842972 345732 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 10 page report that's due tomorrow that I am just now starting < 1321842973 118711 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesss < 1321843281 644052 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably could have just used an existing calculator program to do these averages < 1321843286 727398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT THIS IS EASY TOO < 1321843343 620770 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of baffled as to how my program knows which Read instance to use. < 1321843358 240504 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only inferred types are typeclasses. < 1321843363 889920 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (/) < 1321843365 13090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => a -> a -> a < 1321843373 467533 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Haskell do some kind of auto-default thing? < 1321843399 982391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does Fractional have a Read instance? < 1321843480 987030 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it defaults to Integer or Double, as appropriate < 1321843512 167251 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can change that with a default declaration < 1321843536 948193 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1321843546 466659 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this feature available for other data types? < 1321843574 415919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an ExtendedDefaulting option < 1321843588 887545 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be good to declare String as default for IsString for example < 1321843594 596860 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if OverloadedStrings doesn't already. < 1321843626 539418 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure but that might work with the extended option < 1321843648 336496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also an Expr default would be nice for SimpleReflect < 1321843671 538250 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the extended option, it's limited to only numerical classes defined in the haskell report < 1321843833 572931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you know anything about the CS program at your school? < 1321843876 165582 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1321843883 260801 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise oerjan was presently in a school. < 1321843891 244710 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be the main reason :P < 1321843909 43404 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go, that makes more sense. :) < 1321843932 375564 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... okay. < 1321843955 110189 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You should've quit with "Exception: Prelude.undefined" and left people to figure out what they said wrong. < 1321843978 472454 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically, additional classes are permitted from the standard library. but for some reason Random seems to have been left out in the implementations i've tried (ghc, hugs) < 1321844025 124359 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, last i tried < 1321844054 284574 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (1 +) $ randoms (mkStdGen 42) < 1321844055 357536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [-3907187990116499534,-2519438828217931932,-8264534369199619666,86887135830... < 1321844058 644232 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1321844059 742953 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2010/11/03/equations-over-groups-a-mess/ < 1321844064 781475 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is this you in the first visible comment? < 1321844078 256756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes it is < 1321844079 452219 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it may have been fixed < 1321844085 49247 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is also a Phantom Hoover < 1321844114 128106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Phantom Hoover and a Ørjan Johansen in the same comment thread about math stuff. < 1321844117 293810 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be oerjan. < 1321844156 89603 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still haven't got around to ban Phantom_Hoover for that comment < 1321844247 770374 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think his user pic is a wallpaper group. < 1321844261 8708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fitting given the subject of group theory. < 1321844292 620320 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, that is obviously from the default pic selection < 1321844301 399243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously? < 1321844311 541460 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've noticed people in #esoteric have a strange definition of obviously. < 1321844341 161000 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it looks similar to all the others that don't have actual portraits < 1321844361 186105 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my google chrome was lazy and only loaded half of the pictures. < 1321844375 594889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, I see. < 1321844395 357182 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascinating problem, that group theory / complexity one btw, i've been thinking more about it lately < 1321844412 389905 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only I knew anything about math. :P < 1321844415 607266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I could comment on that. < 1321844417 680921 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how interesting it is. < 1321844455 855062 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i think i ruled out the "another idea" i made further down < 1321844489 989185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: perhaps you should USE HASKELL TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM YEAH < 1321844530 550969 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've considered it < 1321844641 838476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I'll learn about groups when I take topology. < 1321844651 311826 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they in any way related? < 1321844664 476872 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if you take _algebraic_ topology < 1321844676 859449 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just an intro topology course probably. < 1321844682 650884 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the only topology course my university offers. < 1321844691 176149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for undergraduates. < 1321844712 668337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but first I have to take intro to advanced math, which is probably just "lolproofs" < 1321844715 859062 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it depends whether it goes much beyond the basics < 1321844724 672269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :proofs of what? I don't know. Maybe it will touch some things like relations and algebras. < 1321844795 428537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already did stupid number theory and induction proofs in discrete math, so I'm hoping it will not repeat those. < 1321844884 762527 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet we'll still use naive set theory, though. because everyone loves naive set theory even though it's A PARADOX -spooky noise- < 1321845072 789323 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well using naive set theory mostly means "using zfc but not bothering to mention the restrictions" < 1321845090 737318 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...possibly an overstatement. < 1321845160 333641 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no that seems to be the case. < 1321845189 791461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the kind of set theory stuff we did in discrete math was not very complicated. < 1321845218 392306 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh discrete math probably means all the sets are finite or countable < 1321845223 44918 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1321845225 676322 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :countable. < 1321845228 820636 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the most part. < 1321845234 310862 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of number theory stuff. < 1321845268 391132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then we went into things like graphs which were finite and relations which are sometimes finite. < 1321845278 79721 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then zf's replacement axiom (the fraenkel part) says the sets are all ok < 1321845284 517132 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good class. it's a nice "intro to everything fun in math" < 1321845314 594683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to calculus < 1321845320 382658 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is "intro to everything painful in math" < 1321845335 438366 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1321845343 44434 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm just a discrete kind of guy. < 1321845364 791595 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas continuity fucks with my brain. < 1321845408 809095 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as x approaches 1" what? I mean I know what that means but how do you define that? then I would go to my book and try to understand the definition of a limit and fail. < 1321845446 707587 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I went through derivatives and integrals and multi-dimensional integrals in calculus < 1321845452 249509 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a very clear definition of what a limit is. < 1321845461 827887 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, perhaps some of the topological formulations of limit might make it click. or hopefully not make it worse. < 1321845524 822107 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete stuff, on the other hand, is largely intuitive to me though. < 1321845533 141155 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :much of the essence of topology is about generalizing the heck out of limits < 1321845541 90979 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1321845613 883349 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much calculus is there> < 1321845620 479259 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculus: definitely my least favorite math. < 1321845625 537456 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in one direction, anyway. category theory has an even more brain-wrecking way. :P < 1321845652 682145 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I should ask: how many integrals. < 1321845667 924648 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :integrals seem pretty topological... < 1321845695 904558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1321845719 242178 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a summation of all the points in some object. < 1321845723 640365 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically? < 1321845750 123721 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :integrals are just fancy continuous summation things. at least that's my intuitive understanding. < 1321845810 49681 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it depends on which way you generalize them. < 1321845843 983204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait so you can integrate via other things? < 1321845845 772266 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lebesgue integration tries to remove as much as possible of continuity requirement < 1321845851 604898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1321845877 988098 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh that also generalizes to many topological spaces < 1321845953 46668 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's via measure theory. you're not going to see that in a basic topology course. < 1321845977 131780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding was that basic topology is a lot of set theory. < 1321845981 347069 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321845995 173248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe like... relations? < 1321846010 555447 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a homeomorphism is a kind of relation right? < 1321846018 845699 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bijection < 1321846031 580495 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a function in particular < 1321846063 273941 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "homeomorphic" is a relation between topological spaces < 1321846078 857091 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it says there's a homeomorphism between them) < 1321846102 545286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1321846111 387531 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess there's a slight ambiguity in using the term "homeomorphism" for either < 1321846119 399056 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the bijective quality means that each element is equivalent to one other in the other space. < 1321846200 892580 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, although there is not necessarily (i.e. rarely) a _unique_ homeomorphism < 1321846206 62537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and homeomorphism is the isomorphism of topological spaces, because one-to-one equality is a good way for sets of things to be isomorphic. < 1321846235 928617 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sort of yeah < 1321846243 455801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes in no way is that a formal statement of things :P < 1321846269 97458 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra requirements of what kind of bijection it is are important too, otherwise you just get a test for cardinality < 1321846274 118364 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all isomorphisms necessarily bijective? < 1321846308 221549 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in a general category they're not necessarily _functions_ < 1321846316 580691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mappings. < 1321846321 138042 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1321846331 822241 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapping usually is a synonym for function < 1321846334 400296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1321846340 43401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a more general thing. < 1321846344 281953 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *just morphisms < 1321846365 858583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is a morphism besides a function. < 1321846369 361255 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really encountered an example. < 1321846391 225724 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there _might be_ a terminology for mappings that aren't functions. there usually is some way to generalize things. < 1321846420 748847 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The notion of morphism recurs in much of contemporary mathematics. In set theory, morphisms are functions; in linear algebra, linear transformations; in group theory, group homomorphisms; in topology, continuous functions, and so on. < 1321846427 471147 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but those are all just different kinds of functions. :P < 1321846458 691074 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1321846463 752074 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :relations can be morphisms < 1321846475 562238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1321846476 401762 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a category Rel (iirc) < 1321846484 202309 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :relation is a generalization of functions right? < 1321846501 99492 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, or functions are a special case of relations < 1321846505 34344 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1321846552 894149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.... morphisms /are/ relations then (as far as we know)? or... is there another example that makes this not true? < 1321846605 335583 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as far as we know" meaning that there isn't anything that's been called a morphism that isn't some kind of relation. < 1321846666 384852 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are the categories of partial orders, for which the morphisms are _elements_ of relations, or pairs really < 1321846712 311290 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1321846715 219387 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say the order of natural numbers, with objects the numbers and morphisms pairs of numbers (m,n) with m <= n < 1321846735 395029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1321846753 921384 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :partial orders are really interesting. < 1321846761 171693 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1321846764 685501 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :category theory! < 1321846786 245432 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me they seem like... ordering trees? < 1321846790 62986 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also another more advanced example called the category of topological spaces with morphisms _homotopy_ classes of continuous functions < 1321846825 323540 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is important because it's, iirc, not even _equivalent_ to a category with function morphisms (a "concrete" category) < 1321846866 512061 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, can partial orderings form a graph? < 1321846875 719505 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1321846877 815811 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really make any sense to me. < 1321846878 464877 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1321846888 330350 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, excuse me, *cyclic graph < 1321846903 765229 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no. antisymmetric law. < 1321846908 254353 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay good < 1321846910 562619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity is restored. < 1321846931 884428 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I say "graph" when I actually mean "cyclic graph" < 1321846937 557175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because lol computer science < 1321846976 530186 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1321847012 387563 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Poset6.jpg < 1321847014 965179 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so delicious. < 1321847064 114660 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3,4] < [] < 1321847065 61280 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321847131 210472 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any standard library Ord instances that are a valid partial ordering of whatever structure it orders? < 1321847136 407376 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not a valid < 1321847177 392246 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double < 1321847186 716282 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Float < 1321847190 861199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what reason? < 1321847195 360586 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of NaN < 1321847199 610175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1321847206 412982 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5/0 < 1321847207 472971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1321847208 117045 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 < 1321847208 916576 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1321847213 534972 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 > 1 < 1321847214 531664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321847217 636820 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0/0) == (0/0) < 1321847218 452218 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321847222 27518 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1321847232 104353 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is weird as fuck. :P < 1321847237 807450 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also makes sense. < 1321847243 771914 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1321847247 209938 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird enough that it's been considered to change it < 1321847248 38928 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEEE 754 sucks balls < 1321847254 544102 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 < 1 < 1321847255 430427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321847273 841718 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what true claims can you make about something that isn't a number apparently? < 1321847280 517932 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it breaks uses of Ord for things like search trees < 1321847286 995267 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks everything < 1321847291 797328 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't live in the type < 1321847303 667347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often does it crop up though? < 1321847312 414481 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the fucking time, and silently corrupts your shit < 1321847323 9721 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: whenever someone accidentally puts a NaN into a Data.Map.Map < 1321847329 982698 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just that < 1321847353 669118 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: granted, you shouldn't be putting doubles into a map or a key into anything really < 1321847366 144170 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you could probably make a SafeFloat with GADTs or something? < 1321847366 315885 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything you'd want them in an interval tree < 1321847370 184686 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess < 1321847375 947534 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: just a wrapper around them < 1321847393 332558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapper how? < 1321847399 65095 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype < 1321847405 657453 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :provide a bunch of operations that never produce nans < 1321847406 875090 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just redefine the Floating instance? < 1321847408 281370 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1321847413 537344 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would 0/0 produce? < 1321847417 946839 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :an error < 1321847424 606839 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: _or_ a different Ord < 1321847424 707195 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SafeFloat would be compiletime < 1321847426 460584 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is better. < 1321847431 472727 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that work? < 1321847438 616537 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... < 1321847442 450088 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think about that :P < 1321847460 627926 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a phantom parameter that indicates whether it definitely does not contain a NaN < 1321847464 609896 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whether the guarantee is lost < 1321847466 878161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: right < 1321847474 660530 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then all your num types break < 1321847479 795852 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not < 1321847490 29502 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1321847517 540199 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about positive and negative infinity? < 1321847519 621758 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do these break things? < 1321847556 155278 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x/0 is a bit more common than 0/0 < 1321847574 149382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(infinitely more common, perhaps? :P ) < 1321847581 155253 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :those at least compare correctly < 1321847597 361496 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing arithmetic with them is a bit meh but sort of makes sense < 1321847619 282214 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine there are a lot of cases where you'd instead want a zero division error and not an infinity. < 1321847662 980126 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321847904 324875 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321847939 622806 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-151-227.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1321847943 401304 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1/0) * (-1/-1) < 1321848030 596599 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's why there's also negative and positive zero < 1321848071 404128 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1321848083 187204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might have some understanding of the pain of grading papers. < 1321848091 584322 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/((-1)/0)) < 0 < 1321848092 402591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321848094 79371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :going through these questionnaires and calculating average response. < 1321848103 547814 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * ((-1)/(-1)) == (1/0) < 1321848104 58266 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1321848104 373336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321848110 290519 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * ((-1)/(-1)) == (1/(-0)) < 1321848111 213146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321848116 338704 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp < 1321848128 917994 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1321848140 272704 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * ((-1)/(-1)) == ((-1)/(0)) < 1321848141 155850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321848143 920995 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1/0) * ((-1)/(-1)) == ((-1)/(-0)) < 1321848144 938610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321848147 64143 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you give a concrete explanation for why zero typically /doesn't/ have a sign? < 1321848148 11397 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, cool < 1321848164 673106 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could easily have a sign, right? or does that mess up EVERYTHING. < 1321848199 416101 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because it doesn't in a group/ring/field < 1321848226 729481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could relay the notion of negative 0 to my 7th grade self... < 1321848236 855310 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -0 < 1321848237 765971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1321848245 427863 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -0 == 0 < 1321848246 329952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321848251 954085 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> -0.0 == 0.0 < 1321848252 793760 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321848254 719523 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1321848259 355075 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/(-0) < 1321848260 310115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -Infinity < 1321848269 79418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t 0.0 < 1321848270 77459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Fractional t) => t < 1321848282 818911 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet == is broken < 1321848289 311588 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. < 1321848296 923501 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet -0 and 0 are broken with respect to each other. < 1321848300 893490 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t 1/(-0) < 1321848301 887371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Fractional t) => t < 1321848303 523263 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well of course < 1321848307 898091 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in the common case you actually want -0 and 0 to be equal. < 1321848316 614164 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already established that for NaN < 1321848316 993909 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in most applications there is only one kind of zero. < 1321848333 149134 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> isNegativeZero 0 < 1321848333 897859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321848338 466618 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> isNegativeZero (-0) < 1321848339 123055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321848345 950893 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle isNegativeZero < 1321848346 268823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isNegativeZero :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool < 1321848351 522519 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay. < 1321848373 356204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle RealFloat a => a -> Bool < 1321848373 960975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isDenormalized :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool < 1321848374 189239 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isIEEE :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool < 1321848374 234642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude isInfinite :: RealFloat a => a -> Bool < 1321848458 952382 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src RealFloat < 1321848459 301408 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. That's something I cannot allow to happen. < 1321848462 78947 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1321848476 675391 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a long list of methods < 1321848496 296555 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle RealFloat < 1321848496 599822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude class (RealFrac a, Floating a) => RealFloat a < 1321848496 992251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Text.Lazy.Builder.RealFloat module Data.Text.Lazy.Builder.RealFloat < 1321848497 37607 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Text.Lazy.Builder.RealFloat realFloat :: RealFloat a => a -> Builder < 1321848508 703505 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1321848521 482389 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: interestingly only 35% of respondents to my questionnaire reported that one of their professors had incorporated Linux into a project or homework assignment < 1321848533 927806 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net NICK :myndz\ < 1321848536 693578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :58% said that their professor /mentioned/ Linux as part of a lecture. < 1321848570 821572 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my proposal is on incorporated Linux education into the curriculum at our university) < 1321848574 887530 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*incorporating < 1321848707 711832 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Sgeo Updelbrot < 1321848708 112342 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1321848800 630040 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321848859 988278 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slaps CakeProphet  < 1321848860 249833 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1321848875 366296 :Darth_Cliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1321848979 2772 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I wonder if we can formulate a definitive count of how many Homestuck characters are Mary Sue-like? < 1321849022 119717 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actual Mary Sues, but having traits of Mary Sues, perhaps as a parody. < 1321849023 221163 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if most of the characters are Mary Sue-like, they start to equalize < 1321849054 197289 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfecto the Magnificent < 1321849092 873597 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Jade and Jake start out with ridiculous gadgetry < 1321849095 634894 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that continues to grow. < 1321849136 391773 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, in the case of Jade it did < 1321849143 510165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if anyone has tried to make a comic with many recurrent characters that are _all_ mary sues < 1321849144 187305 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do not know what happens with Jake yet. < 1321849168 719335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: MSPA is pretty close. < 1321849173 870497 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1321849178 610043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er homestuck < 1321849179 410130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1321849241 75220 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the later acts of homestuck kind of do a lot of parodying of indulgent fantasy fiction, to my perspective. < 1321849336 367398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each of the now 18 kids (soon to be 20) that have been introduced, each of them have all sorts of quirky interests and talents that you might find in a poorly written fan fic. < 1321849904 45796 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1321850787 254017 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: question < 1321850796 255739 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (\f x -> if x > 0 then x * f (x-1) else 1) 5 < 1321850797 117852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 120 < 1321850802 22780 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is non-strict about that function? < 1321850845 853948 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't actually loop if you give it just _one_ argument :P < 1321850856 459415 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1321850859 282886 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1321850878 945690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, currying is non-strict? < 1321850883 652688 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321850893 447958 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense. < 1321850896 698373 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't forcing f unconditionally < 1321850992 590836 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it should usually give you a "x * f (x-1)" thunk. < 1321851023 120989 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan pretty much explained it. < 1321851032 265007 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strictness analysis might change that slightly, but I don't think GHC's going to turn that into f (x-1) `seq` x * f (x-1). < 1321851043 275815 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1321851048 214893 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleeeh < 1321851049 69016 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: * /is/ strict you know. < 1321851052 391351 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even about strictness actually < 1321851069 468448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that the code is not actually evaluated in regards to the infinite recursion of fix. < 1321851070 809754 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :not strictly about strictness, anyway < 1321851094 829392 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Ah. Well. Duh. < 1321851126 21544 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\f x-> reads \f->\x->... *Clearly* there's not much evaluation you can do of an unapplied lambda. < 1321851150 570594 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it technically non-strict? < 1321851180 79504 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f x -> undefined) undefined `seq` "Sure" < 1321851180 929983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Sure" < 1321851194 998630 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1321851195 788103 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1321851201 196093 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :its function application < 1321851202 964334 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :being non-strict < 1321851236 500350 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... < 1321851238 45659 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f x -> undefined) undefined < 1321851239 33608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a) < 1321851239 407064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1321851241 433631 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good times. < 1321851265 402784 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (f x -> undefined) $! undefined < 1321851266 315362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Pattern syntax in expression context: f x -> undefined < 1321851271 67293 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f x -> undefined) $! undefined < 1321851271 985084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a) < 1321851272 271215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1321851274 893678 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> undefined) `seq` "Sure" -- actually it reduces to this conceptually < 1321851275 678507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Sure" < 1321851297 667713 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so then... < 1321851303 718841 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :/functions/ are just non-strict. :P < 1321851312 519390 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321851322 145476 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how... obvious. :> < 1321851327 414630 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> undefined) should in theory be _|_, but due to seq isn't? < 1321851333 402633 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1321851335 976838 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no... < 1321851339 765185 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> undefined) is not _|_ < 1321851344 488759 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> undefined) < 1321851345 344295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a) < 1321851345 691899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1321851347 493121 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1321851353 801687 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> undefined x) should be < 1321851357 373162 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't < 1321851362 267003 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weak head normal form, in the original lambda calculus sense < 1321851382 970348 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ahhhh < 1321851383 714888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1321851390 378558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense. < 1321851406 146057 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Sure it is. < 1321851414 630679 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sure what is what? < 1321851416 991132 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ < 1321851419 555360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321851420 9585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1321851420 883887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1321851421 608122 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1321851421 653575 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seqism in this channel? < 1321851424 327599 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, without seq there would not be any way in haskell to get to evaluating a function without applying it < 1321851464 273070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why is the value (\x -> undefined) _|_? < 1321851476 597167 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1321851479 331558 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: why is the value (\x -> undefined) == _|_? < 1321851484 246162 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not == _|_ < 1321851489 34619 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No instance Eq (a -> b) blah blah < 1321851503 28217 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's indistinguishable from _|_ unless you have seq. Which you don't. < 1321851507 372718 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1321851537 929325 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't really understand how. < 1321851546 131386 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: nominally, you would want two functions that give exactly the same result when applied to any argument to also _be_ the same. and (\x -> undefined) whatever = undefined whatever, always < 1321851553 558288 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Well -- how do you force it, other than by applying it? < 1321851626 979133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:54 < oerjan> > (\x -> undefined) `seq` "Sure" -- actually it reduces to this conceptually < 1321851638 692250 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, but then why is this not _|_ as well? < 1321851732 598288 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> undefined) < 1321851733 704104 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a) < 1321851733 974747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1321851759 940096 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my mind this is forcing (\x -> undefined) (I'm just going to call it const undefined now) < 1321851782 890584 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: because if the undefined was a more complicated expression that could not be detected as always undefined, then there would be no way to show it without having an x to apply it to < 1321851835 254768 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :say \x -> ...search for a counterexample to goldback's hypothesis... < 1321851844 777090 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*goldbach < 1321851889 747976 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically (\x -> undefined) is _|_ because halting problem? :P < 1321851892 550941 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, _if_ that search never halts, you want that to be equivalent to \x -> undefined < 1321851919 258711 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is _not_ _|_ < 1321851930 999072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.... wait what. < 1321851971 483695 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my argument here was that const undefined is in fact not _|_ < 1321851972 992030 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way to make a compiler that treats \x -> ...anything _actually_ undefined as equivalent to undefined < 1321851987 986043 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1321851998 469099 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_given_ that functions can be evaluated without applying them < 1321852008 877838 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is only possible because of seq < 1321852015 182708 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1321852018 7356 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense. < 1321852040 963746 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was being argued that const undefined was virtually indistinguishable from bottom. < 1321852045 348744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever. < 1321852067 67598 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, unless you have seq < 1321852067 595127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1321852068 317331 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1321852074 555100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used seq and was confused, ha ha. ha ha ha < 1321852094 826116 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will be using pseq as semicolons < 1321852096 181065 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1321852109 127914 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle pseq < 1321852109 575000 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc.Sync pseq :: a -> b -> b < 1321852109 779561 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc pseq :: a -> b -> b < 1321852109 825013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Parallel pseq :: a -> b -> b < 1321852151 565622 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, like seq, except forces its first argument to be evaluated first < 1321852160 183930 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before evaluating the second < 1321852172 360942 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wasn't aware that was semantically different from seq. :P < 1321852182 465581 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not _semantically_ different < 1321852203 880766 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, order of evaluationally different? :P < 1321852207 346277 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not denotationally < 1321852260 24400 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still haven't learned about semantics... < 1321852351 533606 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's there because the denotational semantics does not _actually_ say anything about evaluation order, and ghc actually rearranges things that are denotationally equivalent when optimizing, so _sometimes_ seq ends up evaluating its arguments in the unexpected order < 1321852363 590920 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1321852379 960347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I still don't see how const undefined is virtually indistinguishable from bottom unless seq is involved. < 1321852400 496342 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well const undefined x = undefined always, right? < 1321852412 94764 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which = undefined x < 1321852414 22822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321852441 512188 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the _only_ way you can distinguish functions is by applying them to arguments, const undefined is indistinguishable from undefined < 1321852482 531444 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with seq is that it allows you to distinguish undefined :: X -> Y from (\x -> undefined x) :: X -> Y < 1321852489 415577 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that actually evaluating const undefined doesn't produce bottom, which I'm assuming is where seq comes into play. < 1321852501 573974 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1321852542 411469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically fix f is the only way to determine bottomness < 1321852550 706325 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1321852562 633744 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (const undefined) < 1321852563 423406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1321852568 692282 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (const x) = x < 1321852569 552003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1321852569 840760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look const undefined is bottom < 1321852578 54568 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix . const = id < 1321852591 41312 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't look at arbitrary values and ask "Is it bottom" < 1321852600 400540 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you've solved the halting problem < 1321852610 692709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or unless I evaluate it with fix :P < 1321852612 858610 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can catch some kinds of bottoms, which is what I do in the spoon package < 1321852617 159045 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: fix isn't doing anything for you there < 1321852637 55725 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id undefined < 1321852637 989057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1321852638 575206 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: fix determines strictness, not bottomness < 1321852640 706029 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look, it's undefined! < 1321852659 434163 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+) 1 is a perfectly nonbottom function, but fix ((+) 1) is bottom < 1321852667 918965 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right. < 1321852676 355791 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not necessarily < 1321852683 52946 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let isBottom _ = False < 1321852684 180906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1321852684 226248 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I was just getting strictness and bottom confused :P < 1321852685 211767 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Integer blah < 1321852688 374018 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1321852692 507716 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, hehe < 1321852700 537772 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hackage spoon < 1321852700 818779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/spoon < 1321852711 652033 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :teaspoon :: a -> Maybe a < 1321852727 247698 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the power of bottom is yours < 1321852729 979942 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that's teaspoon, I don't know if I want to know what tablespoon is. < 1321852730 503475 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: also it's not necessary to use fix, all you need is to apply it to undefined < 1321852739 126064 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoon :: NFData a => a -> Maybe a < 1321852740 468067 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Does it catch any _|_ which throws an exception? < 1321852745 217955 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a value being bottom /does not/ determine whether or not your program halts. < 1321852749 751397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when its evaluated. < 1321852752 836870 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weakHeadNormalSpoon < 1321852754 55185 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, exceptions that were deemed to be useful < 1321852763 66908 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful? < 1321852780 407636 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: binary, for example, provides no way to recover from errors < 1321852789 146730 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of libraries throw error when they shouldn't < 1321852792 665451 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought bottom was all about termination. < 1321852795 478305 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoon lets you make them behave nicely < 1321852795 992229 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it catch e.g. <>? < 1321852798 217973 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, lack thereof < 1321852800 452653 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: nah < 1321852803 221823 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1321852817 179084 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some _|_ checker you have. Doesn't even catch <>. < 1321852827 754503 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> really doesn't happen all that often < 1321852827 890710 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1321852832 97647 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<>? < 1321852841 698469 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: an infinite loop in your program < 1321852843 660913 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that when BLACKHOLE is reached when evaluating BLACKHOLE? < 1321852849 86411 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321852853 228420 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1321852854 435522 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a non-threaded runtime < 1321852856 916034 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's about "normal" termination, so exceptions like undefined also count < 1321852864 456650 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool < 1321852866 845928 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was typing up an elaborate explanation, but you just can't fool people these days. < 1321852868 535645 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, returning, so to speak. < 1321852879 328619 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a value that is bottom does not produce a normal form. < 1321852881 820162 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, keep doing it, I'll bet it's funny < 1321852890 412442 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is demotivated. < 1321852914 327162 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if you can give it the type forall a. a, then it's definitely a bottom even if it doesn't loop < 1321852918 444397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and (\x -> undefined) does not produce a normal form, right? < 1321852929 493766 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: not when applied < 1321852941 698958 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well.. right < 1321852947 571939 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is impatient for April 1st < 1321852956 577800 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official release of my Haskell tutorial < 1321852965 131791 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> x x) (\x -> x x) < 1321852969 612225 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :embrace the power of the loop! < 1321852972 739011 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not if it's unsafeCoerce something! < 1321852983 676263 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love (\ x -> x x) (\ x -> x x) < 1321852984 980935 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x) < 1321852988 192127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id) < 1321852988 492454 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. < 1321852996 630750 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's right, go ahead, kill lambdabot < 1321852998 821162 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks lambdabot < 1321853003 158212 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (\x -> undefined) can be rewritten further, right? < 1321853007 427632 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: Thambdabot? < 1321853018 976849 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: why are you focussing on const undefined so much? < 1321853024 404227 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thumbdabot < 1321853026 901539 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: because it's the example that confuses me. < 1321853035 88403 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have any special behavior at all < 1321853048 665539 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It's the only strict function that doesn't force its argument! < 1321853056 624566 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of special. < 1321853060 729485 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well if you're using unsafe functions, obviously you've reached bottom already < 1321853070 123028 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's true. :-( < 1321853072 523575 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I wouldn't call it strict < 1321853077 498434 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION injects some more _|_ < 1321853086 500620 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: No? < 1321853092 753799 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it's the general case of not having a normal form when applied, which is what is confusing me. < 1321853093 582622 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What definition do you use for "strict", then? < 1321853102 214749 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because we test against undefined to talk about strictness, doesn't mean returning undefined makes something strict < 1321853116 723050 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I thought a strict function was a function f such that f _|_ = _|_ < 1321853142 936149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: so it's actually application of undefined to a value that determines if it's bottom? < 1321853158 987474 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's whether it doesn't terminate when evaluated < 1321853168 532153 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: You sort out this mess yourself < 1321853172 554499 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321853175 657468 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, where it doesn't return. < 1321853177 651067 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I understand. < 1321853179 365071 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/where/whether/ < 1321853199 194942 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it feels wrong to say that when something is const undefined, it's strict < 1321853214 694489 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I thought this was a classic example in #haskell. < 1321853219 256039 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1321853219 405605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it's not. < 1321853240 604853 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the point of talking about strictness was to evaluate what it did to its arguments < 1321853244 744629 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that clearly does nothing to its argument < 1321853249 299599 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that definition seems unsatisfactory < 1321853283 435915 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've said the same thing before. < 1321853289 741240 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But denotationally _|_ is _|_. < 1321853292 577074 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1321853292 983401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is bottom, because it can't produce a normal form. const undefined becomes (\x -> undefined) which is not a normal form. < 1321853297 859030 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "strict" is defined denotationally. < 1321853315 77296 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: how is it not? < 1321853354 470813 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I had this discussion a year or so ago with people regarding spoon and why the denotation view of strictness is bullshit because we can actually distinguish things operationally, and people should stop masturbating to denotation < 1321853366 199388 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1321853373 421381 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Don't let conal hear you say that! < 1321853377 359011 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321853379 295495 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is in vague agreement. < 1321853385 425133 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: hmmm, well is undefined x considered a valid reduction of (\x -> undefined)? < 1321853391 667755 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1321853393 774897 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no application < 1321853396 87808 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there you go. < 1321853397 18400 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand this is such a corner case that it doesn't really matter. < 1321853397 512478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1321853400 915064 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's normal form < 1321853406 328279 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same way (\x -> 5) is < 1321853415 184096 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't beta reduce a lambda without an application < 1321853437 42245 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1321853438 851926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is :P < 1321853445 908029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no term < 1321853446 3768 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is the one I keep talking about < 1321853448 405772 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x -> undefined x) < 1321853448 585465 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it reduced to. < 1321853455 99534 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reduces < 1321853456 327472 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an eta expanded form of undefined < 1321853462 863564 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should be indistinguishable from undefined < 1321853470 134082 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is not < 1321853482 737394 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: right right I see nevermind < 1321853482 946019 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is if you're not seqist. < 1321853492 82518 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lives in agdaland < 1321853493 85466 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck seq < 1321853501 819848 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq has no power over me! < 1321853505 532292 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah evaluation who needs it! < 1321853505 577475 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :for I have no bottom < 1321853512 489025 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I evaluate plenty < 1321853515 230434 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :just never to bottom < 1321853551 808964 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When copumpkin evaluates an infinite loop, it's never _|_. < 1321853556 61238 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkinfacts < 1321853564 563733 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1321853566 897586 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: is _|_ a normal form? < 1321853585 236225 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I see < 1321853593 523478 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is entirely meaningless to refer to a value being _|_ < 1321853598 396445 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bottom inherently does not have any values. < 1321853606 833175 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh no < 1321853614 665141 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think we're confusing different uses of _|_ here < 1321853626 760689 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom is the value of all types < 1321853631 419426 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1321853637 184553 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1321853646 539531 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no meaning as a value < 1321853654 40580 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression _|_ is the empty type < 1321853659 51314 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but types contain values and it's a member of all types < 1321853659 734101 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, in a different usage < 1321853664 781148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm okay. < 1321853669 122111 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskell. < 1321853670 4250 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that interpretation works too, but isn't as clean < 1321853674 50937 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is the bottom element in the ordering of definedness < 1321853678 932881 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in unrelated uses, it also means false < 1321853683 939663 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the empty set, by C-H < 1321853690 160015 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn overloaded symbols < 1321853698 584719 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: _|_ is false in relation to decision problems right? < 1321853713 187515 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in agda, it's just used as a general falsity < 1321853718 603575 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an empty set < 1321853727 637910 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might also call an initial object in a category _|_ < 1321853738 632255 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does tie it back with the bottom element in the ordering of definedness < 1321853751 81751 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're different sorts of categories < 1321853783 277651 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the terminal object ‾|‾? < 1321853848 383191 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :⊤⊥ < 1321853859 207681 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me "a function that cannot return a value has the return type of bottom" is similar to saying "there is no term that this term can reduce to" but I'm pretty sure they're separate and completely unrelated. < 1321853892 433238 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in one usage, _|_ is a _value_ or something that resembles a value, and it inhabits all types < 1321853900 544645 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I was already doing a Unicode search anyway. But for the sake of tradition I decided to stick with the three-character version. < 1321853905 242017 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: the Haskell usage right? < 1321853905 700542 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :to talk about the semantics of the language, an ordering of values is introduced < 1321853912 191027 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and _|_ is considered to be less than all other values < 1321853913 482222 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321853924 989938 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :then people talk about haskell maintaining monotonicity < 1321853929 228409 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would ‾|‾ mean in Haskell? < 1321853938 199865 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that functions only ever decrease in definedness < 1321853943 549043 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :strict ones, anyway < 1321853987 604551 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: clearly the most defined value :P < 1321854067 665607 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: okay so.... are terms of type _|_ all normal forms? < 1321854069 229797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1321854075 794242 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/shachaf: // < 1321854088 792690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming that all terms have an associated type. < 1321854204 180275 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what is meant by "_|_ inhabits all types" is that _|_ is a subtype of all types, similar to how the empty set is a subset of all sets. < 1321854213 617947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, _|_ contains no values. < 1321854228 413036 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ isn't a type. < 1321854234 386748 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a value. < 1321854241 912693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1321854243 598996 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bool is inhabited by three values: True, False, and _|_ < 1321854257 141521 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore you can say True :: Bool, False :: Bool, undefined :: Bool < 1321854262 88234 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or x :: Bool; x = x, or whatever. < 1321854265 548716 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because haskell is non-strict, so all values might be arbitrarily complex calculations that do not terminate < 1321854286 829377 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1321854313 579046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in Haskell, thunks count as values, even though they may return nothing. < 1321854361 395695 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: but no, _|_ really is a type. < 1321854364 762301 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise. < 1321854375 311762 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a type if you overload the symbol to also mean a type < 1321854383 447667 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this context, it's meaningless to call it a type < 1321854387 386035 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about in type theory < 1321854390 547298 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a crocodile if you overload the symbol to also mean a crocodile. < 1321854391 88372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom is the empty type. < 1321854432 303655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1321854435 244899 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :we typically don't call it bottom in that context < 1321854437 883612 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that in Haskell values can include things that are not in a normal form. < 1321854449 334642 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're unrelated in this context < 1321854469 750080 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks of non-strictness as much more reasonable than strictness. < 1321854479 253433 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that's the default way of thinking of things or if all the Haskell got to me. < 1321854502 975238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: depends on the context. < 1321854533 9146 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most of the history of programming, non-strict as reasonable is certainly not the default way of thinking about things. < 1321854540 183748 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in math, sure. < 1321854634 520751 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the context of functions. < 1321854695 413134 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically I think the value _|_ that's referred to in Haskell is completely different from the mathematical meaning of _|_ as a type. it becomes useful to think about _|_ as a value precisely because non-strictness allows you to manipulate values that do not actually return any result. < 1321854734 828905 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I just like my eta-equivalence, man. < 1321854737 927446 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I hate seq. < 1321854851 894928 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: that's because, as I keep saying, it isn't being used as a type there < 1321854858 377449 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: right. < 1321854860 422492 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want the mathematical backing to its usage there, look in order theory < 1321854874 467847 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the category usually used to model haskell's behavior is CPO\bot < 1321855105 591904 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\x -> undefined) < 1321855106 648101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t a. t -> a < 1321855155 850330 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (undefined, undefined) < 1321855156 896153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (a, a1) < 1321855161 354796 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1321855179 391888 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is easily amused. < 1321855189 112614 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain hurts. < 1321855189 796351 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1321855218 687416 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefined doesn't have the same type as undefined. < 1321855229 646120 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can. < 1321855233 446418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doesn't have to. < 1321855305 173230 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's universally quantified < 1321855307 906053 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (5, 5) < 1321855308 958185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1. (Num t, Num t1) => (t, t1) < 1321855318 185382 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1321855357 816587 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a,b) = (forall a. a, forall b. b) < 1321855415 610873 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fair to say that the value _|_ has the type _|_ < 1321855427 151211 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> r) -> r = ((forall a. a) -> (forall b. b) -> r) -> r < 1321855434 377557 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric := (forall a b. a -> b -> r) -> r ? < 1321855442 159459 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1321855473 23354 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, hmm. < 1321855479 898910 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would that correspond to in non-CPS? < 1321855521 816942 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn forall a b. (a -> b -> r) -> r < 1321855522 292477 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1321855525 275581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. < 1321855526 64435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1321855590 363529 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: AAAH < 1321855595 80669 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what? < 1321855601 160659 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell does not have a _|_ type < 1321855605 75585 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: sure it does. < 1321855609 169101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not written anywhere. < 1321855613 74876 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1321855615 835739 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :all types are inhabited < 1321855628 561096 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is _|_, in this case, weirdly. :P < 1321855631 167912 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ : forall a. a < 1321855636 230581 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1321855645 624812 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is not inhabited, and it's a type error to say that it is < 1321855647 883824 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the two are obviously not equivalent. < 1321855659 609023 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is not a type, and values are not inhabited < 1321855661 753060 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :inhabited? < 1321855667 921022 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set that contains elements < 1321855670 542367 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does data Foo count as inhabited? < 1321855675 518998 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1321855685 679797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it contains _|_!!! :P < 1321855692 513018 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Z = Z Z < 1321855707 238497 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contains as many inhabitants as data Foo does < 1321855716 605406 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought newtype was strict? < 1321855716 932573 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An infinite number! < 1321855731 605908 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A newtype's constructor is strict, yes. < 1321855741 369127 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't ever construct that newtype. < 1321855750 614794 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix Z < 1321855760 21571 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :or undefined < 1321855763 51044 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they give the same answer < 1321855770 258014 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so for newtype Newtype = Newtype MyType < 1321855771 326461 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Denotationalist! < 1321855782 442370 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ismist! < 1321855783 575273 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't get both Newtype _|_ and _|_, just _|_? < 1321855787 845214 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so high-and-mightily operational now, are we? < 1321855806 693380 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can't distinguish undefined and fix Z < 1321855814 322820 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NewType _|_ is _|_ < 1321855818 996845 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spoon < 1321855832 578253 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1321855834 277718 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1321855841 98481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, indeed, unlike if data was used instead of newtype, where NewType _|_ would be distinct from _|_ < 1321855854 638883 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1321855861 868687 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Nope? < 1321855871 763313 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In data Z = Z Z, Z undefined =/= undefined < 1321855876 257972 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought strictness was irrelevant to _|_ < 1321855881 37119 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1321855885 555888 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1321855908 542316 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know I think I've fatigued my brain muscles trying to wrap my head around this. < 1321855925 34456 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you talking about _|_ the type or _|_ the crocodile? < 1321855932 900324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crocodile. < 1321855936 17923 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1321855937 333036 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :krokodil < 1321855943 427301 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the crocodile doesn't care about strictness. < 1321855969 719430 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back in Haskell land where the empty type is not a type. < 1321855981 641790 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, empty type doesn't exist < 1321855991 737739 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's (), which contains () and _|_ < 1321855992 118898 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so. < 1321856002 628368 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :() is the anti-_|_ < 1321856008 818792 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOP! < 1321856019 596290 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWgaToemGkY < 1321856049 62066 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: saying that the empty type does not exist is kind of like saying the empty set does not exist. < 1321856051 120046 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, kind of noisy. < 1321856057 117748 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No. We're talking about Haskell. < 1321856061 197863 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right < 1321856072 821741 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is not pure math. < 1321856073 161593 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:12 < CakeProphet> I'm back in Haskell land where the empty type is not a type. < 1321856106 662414 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not in Haskell, it is elsewhere. < 1321856113 33397 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo said "the empty type does not exist" < 1321856120 669494 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, only Haskell exists? :P < 1321856143 573086 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages that have the _|_ type typically don't have the _|_ value :) < 1321856146 211064 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vice versa < 1321856168 737039 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me. < 1321856170 740698 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, from another perspective < 1321856177 459559 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :the _|_ type itself is a value in those languages < 1321856187 224043 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with a completely different denotation as the _|_ value from haskell < 1321856212 236251 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Agda, _|_ : Set < 1321856236 134392 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely Agda calls it ⊥? < 1321856253 691665 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I need to understand the denotational semantics of Haskell to understand this bottom business. < 1321856268 625498 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about denotational semantics < 1321856294 747251 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from the perspective of type theory, it sounds incredibly silly to say that Haskell has no bottom type. < 1321856308 225378 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about type theory < 1321856427 493144 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, I was wrong to say that the _|_ value has the _|_ type, that's equally silly. < 1321856465 776187 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in a different type theory it might make sense < 1321856472 897310 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :a subtyping theory with singleton types < 1321856500 849461 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :only total languages can have empty types < 1321856610 790211 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best type theory to use when talking about Haskell? < 1321856662 164514 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, people usually model it in system Fomega < 1321856676 95303 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really capture the bottom-ness < 1321856685 567551 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :people usually gloss over that on the type theory level < 1321856691 127410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1321856693 525097 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then try to capture it in semantics < 1321856708 885688 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saying something like Hask = CPO\bot < 1321856827 855656 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: so Haskell is strongly normalizing? < 1321856833 636286 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1321856841 61705 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1321856871 15633 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today, I played Dungeons & Dragons game. I managed to break into a debtor's prison, find out who one of them was in debt to and by how much, got arrested, guards trying to take me to the other prison, some wizards tried to restrict me but I stunned them, the guard try to attack me but I stunned them too, dragged them to the federal prison, told them to stand up (but they couldn't), got into a holding cell. < 1321856883 351559 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: ah but Haskell's type system is. < 1321856884 374492 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1321856891 579624 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is a deliberate parts of my plan) < 1321856893 293674 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321856912 181622 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-146.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1321856961 566917 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: sort of, in theory < 1321856980 930617 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some weirdnesses in the implementations regarding type aliases and so on < 1321856988 670323 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they try hard _not_ to normalize < 1321857061 343579 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1321857149 197926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that's... weird. < 1321857170 17004 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wrote type String = [Char] < 1321857174 710196 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you presumably like the name String < 1321857183 409986 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for error reporting right? < 1321857188 662938 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want to see String in type errors where possible < 1321857211 257114 :DCliche!~Darth_Cli@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1321857221 476458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: but it doesn't really change anything to do that. < 1321857247 562871 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, all types could have a normal form if we wanted them to < 1321857293 806269 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just get a lot more RealWorld and #'s :P < 1321857367 99298 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not even that < 1321857372 521054 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is still a newtype < 1321857383 43092 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you typically wouldn't want to see through those < 1321857391 27212 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you wouldn't need to < 1321857615 466127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me < 1321857639 12318 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are boolean values not expressed in Haskell as they are in the LC < 1321857668 423013 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean as functions? < 1321857669 260398 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do you need Eq and Ord for Bool? I suppose Read and Show are valuable. < 1321857673 765560 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: yes < 1321857687 291655 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we have ADTs and they're convenient < 1321857700 704420 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric : /= on Bool is xor < 1321857719 176064 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :== is biconditional implication :P < 1321857739 315462 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a == b) c d is pretty convenient too though. < 1321857759 912062 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what if is for < 1321857764 73004 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say the same about numbers < 1321857768 574533 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 (+1) 0 < 1321857772 793364 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be 5! < 1321857781 753335 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5 (+1) 0 < 1321857782 585021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1321857785 600703 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: oh look it is! < 1321857787 347649 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1321857788 171275 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :we like to write explicit eliminators < 1321857789 763420 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321857792 269316 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay fine < 1321857794 244186 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 5 (+2) 0 < 1321857795 223584 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1321857796 133142 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be 10 < 1321857819 507779 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would expect shachaf to set that sort of trap < 1321857831 175639 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite as convenient as Bool being church booleans I think. < 1321857845 635887 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: You could say the same about floating point numbers. < 1321857851 816967 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what copumpkin wants < 1321857852 503569 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But *please* don't. Please. < 1321857858 118212 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do I want? < 1321857862 705166 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have what I want < 1321857864 686227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, having instances for bool is probably more practically useful, especially considering that if statements aren't really troublesome enough to need replacing by regular function application < 1321857867 532986 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :explicit eliminators in the form of pattern matching < 1321857868 597901 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, 5 (+2) 0 to be 10 < 1321857871 387668 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see what that means < 1321857878 658051 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :) < 1321857917 489492 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should totally write a Num instance for (a -> a) that makes fromInteger do that < 1321857942 53705 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with that. < 1321857944 186197 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Make sure you make negative numbers work. < 1321857951 418637 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that thing too. But the type of Church numbers is (a -> a) -> (a -> a) I think. < 1321857975 114521 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1321857991 833066 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a Num instance for (a -> a) -> (a -> a) < 1321858079 967465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you expect negative numbers to do here? It would only work if there was a type that can only hold bijective functions (something I have asked for in the past). < 1321858108 872135 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a < 1321858113 604470 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_, clearly < 1321858116 550308 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :one approach to the negatives < 1321858131 719069 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot an a < 1321858149 934196 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> (a -> a) < 1321858154 562398 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :bettar < 1321858217 704744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes it could be, if you do fromInteger x | x < 0 = error "Negative church numbers is not allowed" but that doesn't really count as "make negative numbers work", I think. < 1321858270 709730 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :with my scheme < 1321858280 596872 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :n pred succ 0 = id < 1321858321 306167 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pred :-( < 1321858333 246279 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1321858398 864932 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be oversimplifying it though < 1321858662 114973 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I realized /= on Bool is xor and have used that in some programs. < 1321858684 574118 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<= is implication < 1321858703 794256 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it to make a monoid for Equivalence from the contravariant functors package. < 1321858713 752869 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: O, yes, you are correct. I have not realized that, before. < 1321858714 955762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> False <= True < 1321858715 820196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321858720 766152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> True <= Falsee < 1321858721 573452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `Falsee' < 1321858723 94801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> True <= False < 1321858724 42386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321858724 929691 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1321858735 136902 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION easily amused < 1321858737 97933 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fine, it *would* be implication if data Bool = True | False deriving Ord < 1321858768 26419 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (liftA2 (<=)) [False, True] < 1321858768 813293 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [True,True,False,True] < 1321858782 660220 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use other comparison operators, too. < 1321858840 481756 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (liftA2 (>=)) [False, True] < 1321858840 635805 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1321858841 528869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [True,False,True,True] < 1321858865 308683 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even looks like implication < 1321858875 53062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: how is it not implication? < 1321858888 355582 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It *would*, if only True < False! < 1321858911 23003 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just reverse the comparison operator. < 1321858916 89046 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :join (liftA2 (<)) [False, True] < 1321858917 886591 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (liftA2 (<)) [False, True] < 1321858918 644437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [False,True,False,False] < 1321858925 871601 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (liftA2 (>)) [False, True] < 1321858926 693415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [False,False,True,False] < 1321858969 705571 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> not (True > True) < 1321858970 563649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321858976 181328 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> not (True > False) < 1321858977 101846 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321858984 358072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> not (False > True) < 1321858985 260182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321858987 384087 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> not (False > False) < 1321858988 247203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1321859032 191954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that not implication again? :P < 1321859042 567153 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is. < 1321859054 917111 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But I like the arrow shape. < 1321859084 372423 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well, *too bad* < 1321859097 685980 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (->) = id in id -> 2 < 1321859098 490077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `->' < 1321859100 141864 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1321859127 590440 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet isn't satisfied with (->) working for types and kinds. < 1321859133 245812 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be a value-level operator too. < 1321859139 309740 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1321859170 572926 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what would it apply to? (-3)-types? < 1321859179 138267 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = id in id --> 2 < 1321859179 993312 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1321859199 44805 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I ended up not fully making sense of dolio's slides. < 1321859203 472550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = =< in True --> False < 1321859204 329706 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=<' < 1321859208 458969 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = (=)< in True --> False < 1321859209 132920 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh? < 1321859209 450831 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `=' < 1321859209 881888 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1321859214 96029 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = (=<) in True --> False < 1321859215 167594 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `=<' < 1321859216 63239 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tired < 1321859224 53878 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some classes that you can list all values of some types, including Bool and () and Zero (a uninhabited type) and sum and product types of those types, and functions of those types (function type could be, exponent type). Now it can also make Enum, Bounded, Eq, of those specific function types. < 1321859233 305411 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = (<=) in True --> False < 1321859234 325209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1321859239 121376 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Mainly lacking background, I think. It also made more sense when dolio was talking. :-) < 1321859240 665357 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have a package on hackage that does that too < 1321859248 51398 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I can explain stuff if you want < 1321859255 564976 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hackage enumerable < 1321859255 863308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/enumerable < 1321859291 557752 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-->) = (<=); id = (-->) True in map id [False, True] < 1321859292 570748 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [False,True] < 1321859358 141364 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One reason I wanted types holding only bijective functions is to use it to represent equality of numbers in the type level. The other reason is to do some experimenting with reversible programming. < 1321859369 905298 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It's probably a matter of going over it in detail. Probably everything I want is talked about in one of the many papers on my to-read list. :-) < 1321859378 537786 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough :) < 1321859379 999813 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's to-read list is an enumeration of every possible paper. < 1321859381 832116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, the other type I made to list all value, is Maybe type. It can be used as a successor for numbers in type level < 1321859394 98815 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: reversible programming would be very cool. < 1321859469 895168 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably very very space leaky < 1321859473 898676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also made a Classical class for a few types to make classical logic in types (like Curry-Howard, but classical logic instead of only intuitionistic; since they are restricted to instances of the class, te law of excluded middle could be proven individually for each type) < 1321859499 999048 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it pretty much implies that data is never destroyed. < 1321859525 194349 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it doesn't necessarily. It just means you need to know how to go backwards < 1321859529 82383 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it doesn't need to be space leaky all the time, since you could have a result which you go backward < 1321859535 81088 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure how a _type_ of invertible functions would get checked, though < 1321859550 287006 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :without you providing an explicit proof that you're bijective < 1321859624 499632 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Well, my idea is to restrict what kind of things you can use in its definition, and ensure all outputs are defined for any defined input, and then have an implicit cast from bijective functions to normal functions so that they can be used as normal functions. < 1321859642 700803 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I mean < 1321859649 464152 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :f 0 = 0 < 1321859651 659076 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :f (suc n) = n < 1321859652 45926 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: that either involves computing with a function a -> a that is bijective or a -> SomeTypeWithAStoredSomewhere. Basically memory can be deleted if it's no longer by the values that used it to be computed. < 1321859667 985326 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/by/used by/ < 1321859677 69574 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :my function is not bijective < 1321859693 70054 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you disallow it if I tried to give it the type of a bijective function Nat -> Nat? < 1321859721 630824 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, there should also be some way to use it to prove that 1 is unequal to 2, so that you can prove the type Not (Maybe Zero <-> Maybe (Maybe Zero)) where data Zero; type Not t = t -> Zero; < 1321859735 122079 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should come to #agda :) < 1321859766 309379 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :although no language I know allows you to prove things like that _and_ allows subtyping < 1321859781 74152 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be what you want for bijective functions < 1321859827 493442 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: It would require things checked at compile time, one thing is that case would be used, and restrictions on ensuring everything in unique; there are way to do that, that I have thought of. Although I might still have made some mistake < 1321859871 14736 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not sure it's decidable in general, though. You could probably come up with some good heuristics but you typically want a type system to have an easy mental model < 1321859892 99629 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :in agda you could just prove that your function is bijective < 1321859907 591600 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still feels like haskell :) < 1321859925 677108 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I need to sleep :( < 1321859932 343013 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One requirement would be that unbounded types could be passed only unchanged, and *must* be passed exactly once to the output if the input contains it.) < 1321859946 9916 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's substructural typing < 1321859959 282840 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that most of these languages don't support < 1321859981 700417 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the secret sauce that we need to make DList ~= List < 1321860161 104059 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, bijective functions would be able to use other bijective functions, but not functions that aren't bijective. Constructors and field names in a newtype are automatically considered bijective. < 1321860182 14917 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there also ought to be something usable with bijective functions that allows you to access its reverse. < 1321860248 564868 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: perhaps if you could make bijectiveness implicit in the semantics of the language. < 1321860258 344448 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it's always guaranteed. < 1321860333 796837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would extremely memory expensive. < 1321860369 923318 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically all data types would have an implicit slot for "everything that was used in creating me" < 1321860394 265095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Yes, that is kind of what I was trying to explain to make. However, it would be working only at compile-time, and only for functions marked as bijective would have such requirements; however, you could implicitly cast bijective function type to normal function type if you do not need that. < 1321860405 677715 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: The ways I was thinking of, no data types would need such a slot. < 1321860445 988431 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it would be implicit in the syntax used for making bijective functions, and the compile-time semantics, but not run-time semantics. < 1321860721 300432 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, "everything that was used in creating me" is not really what a mathematical bijective function does anyways! < 1321860830 838931 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right but that's what you would need if you want every value to be reversible without knowledge of a reversing function. < 1321861033 374596 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not trying to make every value reversible, however. So the type (Zero <-> Maybe Zero) (where Zero means uninhabited type and <-> means bijective function) is uninhabited. < 1321861089 553177 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes. < 1321861156 411160 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowledge of a reversing function would not even be needed at runtime either; because the function to access its inverse would be processed at compile-time to get its reverse, and if it is applied to a variable then the program is adjusted at compile-time to pass both the function and its inverse to the function taking that variable as an argument. < 1321861208 26469 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the question is: can you make any guarantees that the inverse function is a true inverse. < 1321861259 735642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type (x <-> x) for a specific x represented as a number can mean the factorial of x when it is used as a number. < 1321861305 356611 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: With the ideas I was thinking of, the compiler would automatically be able to calculate the inverse if you followed specific rules, where you must follow those rules for the compiler to accept it as a bijective function too. < 1321861457 800794 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, you would have to build it up from a case block without duplicates, without inexhaustive patterns, only other bijective functions can be called, no pattern guards, no undefined/error, and it easily check all outputs are also unique. < 1321861583 424331 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm actually I just got an idea for a very simple graph-based programming language that's reversible. < 1321861597 468543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also inherently a memory leak. :P < 1321861629 980070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. you could manually manage memory if you had a way to delete graph nodes. < 1321861709 260742 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a predecessor node (a node that was computed one step previously in the program's execution) does not point to any present nodes, then it can be considered inaccesible; repeat recursively back to the beginning of the program. < 1321861788 542171 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another requirement would be that all variables occur exactly once in the output. < 1321861853 692186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid operations would include: reverse a node to the node that produced it < 1321861869 39358 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't actually free any memory ever, another valid operation would be: reverse a single execution step. < 1321861970 233692 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will have to examine this further on a later date. < 1321861973 52950 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night. < 1321862028 345947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bijective functions form a group. < 1321862056 995968 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition, the reversible esolangs Burro and Revaver2pi also have their programs form a group. < 1321862949 619375 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1321862967 173952 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it make sense to represent a GoL grid in Haskell with an infinite 3d data structure? < 1321862974 545820 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1321864917 753397 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a game with this text: "In former times, friends Skipp, Apple, and the Wedge were camped. Opposing to expectation, as for them they were kidnapped by the foreigners which is supposed to because it exists. They were placed on the underground mission of spacecraft of enormous foreign country.... Before marshmellows burns, it escapes from the body of the captivity and it must help those in order to return to their planet!" < 1321865291 925460 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1321866237 594980 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321866282 496097 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 QUIT :Client Quit < 1321866294 519890 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321866358 519729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321866719 735769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1321866720 715197 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ib.skaia.net/post/view/25830 Phantom_Hoover clicky (assuming you're caught up with HS) < 1321866721 94972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo........... < 1321866721 762945 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is easily amused < 1321868475 978248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321869304 168794 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bijective function types might also allow some optimizations to be performed that otherwise doesn't be performed. < 1321869700 521493 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bijections?!?!?!? < 1321869703 86546 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1321869705 41361 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1321869715 285775 :oklobot!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :oklopol < 1321869797 459201 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in modern bijections, it's okay for some values on the domain to map back on the domain. < 1321869870 821744 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :values of the codomain mapping back on the codomain in the inverse of the function of course has been considered damn hot through the ages. < 1321869979 198217 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i made it too obvious with the second sentence. < 1321869994 595477 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I mean specifically is that all defined input has a valid output, all values of both the input and output types are taken into account, and that there is a different output for each input. < 1321870070 853287 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what a bijection is < 1321870102 936526 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by i i mean everyone here who's not a stupid < 1321870131 601539 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember the difference between injection and surjection, which is which, but bijection's easy < 1321870144 903493 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you know, but I wanted to be more specific anyways. < 1321870300 871218 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who doesn't < 1321870388 222581 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijection from X to Y is a function from X to Y which is an injection and a surjection. an injection is a function such that x != y, both in Y, implies f(x) != f(y) and a surjection is such that for all y in Y there exists x in X such that f(x) = y < 1321870418 741181 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bijection from X to Y is a function from X to Y which is an injection and a surjection. an injection is a function such that x != y, both in X, implies f(x) != f(y) and a surjection is such that for all y in Y there exists x in X such that f(x) = y < 1321870421 482067 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1321870477 937923 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is better than my description < 1321870549 138173 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have many ideas for use of bijective function type; one is to experiment with reversible programming, one is to determine inverses automatically, one is to be able to represent equality of natural numbers in the type system similar to Curry-Howard (but this should also require that there is some way to prove that one is not equal to zero, and so on) < 1321870848 411631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a program for classical logic. I called the uninhabited type Zero. For numbers, you would have, Zero for zero, Maybe for successor, product type for products, sum type for sums, function type for exponents. And then, you also have Zero, product, sum, for logical operation as well, and bijective function type for equality of numbers. < 1321870851 965194 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sorta stuff might be nice. i also think that's been tried, perhaps succesfully < 1321870869 215341 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again who cares if it's been done < 1321871026 680373 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1321871574 809670 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40c79.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1321871967 216502 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1321872321 509835 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1321872344 796998 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, they're both the same, just going opposite ways. < 1321872950 960484 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1321878509 867545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1321880487 862936 :pagnol!pagnol@141.30.241.116 QUIT : < 1321882594 222517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, google changed favicon again? < 1321883978 893820 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1321883984 144960 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321884056 441718 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-15.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1321884718 545609 :Guest14567!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1321884725 221107 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-246-207.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1321885736 855110 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A92B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321885938 509862 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1321886043 791277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1321887835 444602 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1321888605 149177 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321888639 127790 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1321889316 263396 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1321889408 642203 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1321889667 131780 :ais523_!93bcc019@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.25 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1321890214 542103 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1321890563 313692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321890747 235998 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Brumhandle acquired; inbox filled with angry PMs. < 1321890748 10039 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1321890850 723132 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1321890938 141166 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321891237 712798 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321891249 454516 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1321891249 500065 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1321891267 52383 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1321891411 835035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321891511 328912 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321891849 829451 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1321891864 814061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, fix your ident order dammit. < 1321891925 910996 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321893119 42218 :CakeProp1et!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1321893123 511496 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: huh? < 1321893131 936549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* CakeProphet (~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) has joined #esoteric < 1321893132 107459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* CakeProphet has quit (Changing host) < 1321893132 153153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* CakeProphet (~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake) has joined #esoteric < 1321893157 220220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a cloak, but you're identifying after you join the channel, thus spamming and defeating the point of having the cloak. < 1321893183 324168 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC you can fix it in XChat by setting the server password, rather than the NickServ password. < 1321893193 649405 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about irssi? :) < 1321893253 523282 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :access flags < 1321893255 196365 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude remove irssi, aptitude install xchat < 1321893261 494461 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noe < 1321893262 945513 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :p < 1321893278 135842 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt freenode have access control? < 1321893283 761999 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually even using the server password it does not always make NickServ result right away. < 1321893305 508369 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you program it to not autojoin until the NickServ response? < 1321893323 794717 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a common problem IME. < 1321893326 931949 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be possible < 1321893413 920756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another solution is, could you make up a new channel that requires registration to join but redirects to this channel? Would the server even accept such a thing or would it ignore the registration mode in this case? < 1321893465 363737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the way redirects work, I think it'd redirect people who weren't identified because if you can't get into a channel, default is to redirect you < 1321893485 625619 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes, now that I think of it, yes that is how it works. < 1321893500 365741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are correct; redirects only work if you are not identified. < 1321893553 909709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it is configured by the server operators for permanent redirect. < 1321893605 616380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, making it work on the client is better way than reconfiguring the server to do that, isn't it? Just use a macro like I described above on the client. < 1321893729 12495 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys I think I figured out the solution < 1321893733 456814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not caring. < 1321893745 477777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the commentary to today's Gunnerkrigg court < 1321893746 345062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh yes, I can feel it working already. < 1321893760 121323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because it doubles the volume of join/quit spam. < 1321893792 142951 :andrew12!~rewt@vps.andrew12.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1321893794 585482 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doubles /my/ volume of join/quit spam < 1321893819 86479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like one join/quit pair per ever 3 days on average or something. egads! < 1321893824 177693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*every < 1321893828 279222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and your name is not one unassociated with join/quit spam. < 1321893847 456346 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Tell your client to ignore the quit message "Changing host" if you want to suppress it from your display < 1321893882 710174 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321893897 583511 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so wait, the solution is to /not/ identify? < 1321893901 996655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand what's going on. < 1321893924 962576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The solution is to identify between connecting to the server and joining channels. < 1321893940 204542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you connect, join and identify you rehost. < 1321893941 626472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK; to tell you I don't care much about that either (I don't have a cloak anyways). Cloak can also be used to easily show your identity, without requiring WHOIS or NS INFO (in case you commonly connect with multiple computer) < 1321893966 848945 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way is to disable the cloak, in case you still want to identify and avoid this join/quit span messages < 1321893987 634072 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi doesn't seem to have any way to do. < 1321894006 885797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do what? < 1321894061 230058 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :identify before joining channels. < 1321894086 434168 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I join every channel manual via -autosendcmd or something < 1321894089 782990 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*manually < 1321894128 175877 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it must have macros, though. Isn't it? < 1321894149 878111 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, sure. < 1321894171 545822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no macro that I can find just command aliases < 1321894183 113516 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1321894199 935605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no parameters can be given, basically. < 1321894227 108801 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then fix irssi to support macros < 1321894229 259653 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321894275 845510 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ehpdelbreet < 1321894358 798687 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ha. ha. ha. Strider is different than Dave. tee hee. this is UNEXPECTED. < 1321894395 244754 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/different than/different but similar to/ < 1321894453 524760 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :His autoreply seems similar to fungot < 1321894454 655971 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: 250000? from factorial? :o) instances of tla running in parallel < 1321894494 920188 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: whose? < 1321894506 28205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strider's < 1321894510 751247 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait SPOILERS < 1321894521 209575 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOILY SPOILY SPOILERS < 1321894533 497815 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PastCakeProphet: SPOILERS < 1321894541 861196 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOOO < 1321894567 342092 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strider is like Rose if Rose were a cool bro. < 1321894570 429145 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1321894588 234385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1321894664 40336 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SPOILERS NEAR END OF LOG < 1321894677 393302 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOILERS ABOUT STRIDER AND AUTO -- ER < 1321894678 691031 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVERMIND < 1321894681 717801 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1321894689 179646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I check MSPA before reading the logs. < 1321894742 903926 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a good system < 1321894839 616203 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you enjoy leading last nights conversation? < 1321894847 156584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1321894866 663856 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one < 1321894867 955683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :before this one < 1321894870 638839 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I'm talking a lot < 1321894915 703262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't finished reading MSPA updates yet. < 1321895047 182823 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sheesh it's like you're human or something. < 1321895079 502719 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an undisciplined yob. < 1321895095 55198 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you expected them to be? The gods? < 1321895138 900693 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott should obviously be some kind of machine. < 1321895151 828990 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a robotic teenaged superhero. < 1321895152 334548 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cola making machine < 1321895161 123890 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cola is one of Hexham's main industries < 1321895164 782727 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cola and chipboard < 1321895168 855297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1321895169 820940 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1321895182 317667 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fentimans.com/ < 1321895193 856919 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their offices and laboratories are in Hexham < 1321895195 392297 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, Atlanta has got the cola industry /on lock/ < 1321895203 164175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've got Coca-Cola and shit. < 1321895210 418951 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE HAVE FENTIMANS < 1321895218 161372 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD I NEVER REALIZED < 1321895224 170538 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except: what the fuck is that? -clicks- < 1321895236 68014 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as DELICIOUS < 1321895238 250321 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AS COCA-COLA < 1321895239 810152 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1321895277 764186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I think instead of going to class today < 1321895281 29840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to finish this huge paper < 1321895761 279996 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does recording of D&D game interested you by now? < 1321895779 503013 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fentimans Curiosity Cola is a lot stronger tasting than Coca-Cola or Pepsi < 1321895969 423020 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321895974 191462 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi < 1321895991 951071 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1321895999 724861 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, first hit for "linux" is the Ubuntu homepage < 1321896042 68739 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321896050 259761 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which doesn't mention the word "linux" < 1321896119 203425 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Official site; Commercially sponsored Debian-derived Linux distribution that focuses on usability, a regular 6-month release cycle, and a ..." < 1321896122 204545 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um? < 1321896132 776339 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page doesn;t < 1321896137 540678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither does the page's source < 1321896145 619238 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The description must come from elsewhere < 1321896147 140411 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, indeed not. < 1321896165 31827 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Google is kind of magical < 1321896173 9353 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of magical < 1321896182 315336 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a latent reality warper < 1321896191 800954 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I warp reality every day. < 1321896203 169215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This summer I wanted to know someone who had similar interests to me and lived near me < 1321896212 537358 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN SUDDENLY ELLIOTT APPEARED IN MY LIFE < 1321896219 722666 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :best friends for life. <3 < 1321896228 411286 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WROST EMENIES < 1321896232 662897 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3< < 1321896254 955078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1321896256 628260 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how everyone in the UK lives relatively close to each other. < 1321896274 703437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover doesn't < 1321896297 719131 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the most populous state in the US is around 2000 miles away from me. < 1321896298 194100 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live pretty near Hexham, actually. < 1321896318 664299 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham party < 1321896334 227388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should all have a meetu- NO. < 1321896339 263625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you all. < 1321896341 799217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 2 of you. < 1321896348 924938 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to change trains in Newcastle, Carlisle, or Glasgow to get to Phantom Hoover < 1321896349 605873 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That includes himself) < 1321896360 979108 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe Middlesborough < 1321896387 89706 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: do all of those places have Haskell compilers named after them? < 1321896398 729802 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1321896401 732210 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1321896405 196924 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Glasgow and MIddlesborough < 1321896424 378366 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: time to get started on the Hexham Haskell Compiler < 1321896429 354012 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :middlesborough haskell compiler < 1321896430 158630 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1321896434 556863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't ais523 live in the North too? < 1321896439 537379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: birmingham < 1321896451 401286 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham is East Midlands, I believe < 1321896453 20514 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you're talking about birmingham, Alabama right? :P < 1321896458 432528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that in the North I don't know? < 1321896459 377175 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IS TOO FAR SOUTH TO BE NORTH < 1321896468 405527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :birmingham is in the black hole known only as birmingham < 1321896486 416228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:58: shachaf: I got the last exploit by @telling lambdabot to say fungot < 1321896487 714838 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ( will be, fnord fnord ( that's zero zero) least significant bits of pointers for each node, and find all the prime numbers up to 32-bit, constants can be at least 64 characters long, and a < 1321896504 433404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "fungot" < 1321896505 363238 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: your keyboard is absent? fnord juhovh minä olisin ainakin fnord fnord fizzien fnord < 1321896505 962653 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "fungot" < 1321896506 746302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: would also have worked. < 1321896520 126351 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NOPE NOT THE SAME < 1321896530 80765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:20: ​?where fungot < 1321896530 161094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:29: lambdabot? < 1321896530 215755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:36: Oh, come on, lambdabot! < 1321896530 261183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:42: > "I don't listen to people with 'bot' in their name, IIRC" < 1321896530 261369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:43: "I don't listen to people with 'bot' in their name, IIRC" < 1321896530 916653 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " fill your days with despair in 12 easy steps!" level yet?? < 1321896536 508062 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell is like a delayed surpirse of botsploitation < 1321896537 254495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1321896538 53741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody's ever said that to ais523 so I guess he's just making it up. < 1321896547 788724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: HackEgo uses control characters to subvert botloops it'd otherwise cause. < 1321896568 224328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ais523: "HackEgo" does not contain "bot" :P < 1321896568 575137 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :is < 1321896572 921511 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: hi < 1321896580 816875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321896592 877321 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1321896593 540170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dylukes asked 19d 18h 5m 26s ago: haskell awesome? < 1321896593 813582 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet said 56s ago: like a delayed surpirse of botsploitation < 1321896621 537992 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo ?why am I SO CLEVER?! < 1321896625 303052 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell dylukes yes it is < 1321896626 186258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1321896628 445131 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​?why am I SO CLEVER?! < 1321896631 749349 :is!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet < 1321896647 441627 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they're not control characters, they're Unicode. < 1321896664 751756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:14: -!- ChanServ changed the modes of #esoteric: +o ais523 < 1321896664 877036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:22: just in case I need to +m the channel for a few seconds to break botloops < 1321896673 119524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: op abuse, the traditional botloop breaker is an annoyed bot admin < 1321896690 100260 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, HackEgo being BRILLIANTE < 1321896700 214944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: < 1321896704 407711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!echo lambdabot: @so hi < 1321896706 680319 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so hi < 1321896707 620792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi not available < 1321896713 634122 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1321896713 838624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo lambdabot: @so hi < 1321896715 785483 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so hi < 1321896715 890523 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is such a loop, what with it not looping. < 1321896716 790220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi not available < 1321896725 318040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You want me to complete it? < 1321896735 188940 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... maybe? :P < 1321896735 701885 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1321896740 776732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo lambdabot: @so `echo test < 1321896741 195111 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's lambdabot's fault :P < 1321896742 681970 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `echo test < 1321896743 603530 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo test not available < 1321896744 465897 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1321896745 492266 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test not available < 1321896748 706149 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1321896752 690783 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, still not a loops. < 1321896757 877956 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still not a loop < 1321896761 736008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo "lambdabot: @so `cat x; #" >x < 1321896763 514796 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"lambdabot: @so `cat x; #" >x < 1321896766 463506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "lambdabot: @so `cat x; #" >x < 1321896768 454875 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1321896774 156521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'lambdabot: @so `cat x; #' >x < 1321896775 887024 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1321896776 497137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat x < 1321896777 967179 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: x: No such file or directory < 1321896781 854064 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I've read that HTML is an interesting programming language. (re: learning new languages) < 1321896782 25168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat x < 1321896783 801412 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `cat x; # < 1321896784 483267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat x; # not available < 1321896784 851797 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1321896786 578444 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: x; # not available: No such file or directory < 1321896788 71740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops < 1321896791 521163 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: :( < 1321896792 97841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'lambdabot: @so `run cat x; #' >x < 1321896794 264688 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1321896796 348226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat x < 1321896798 341421 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896799 251252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896801 153786 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896802 187122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896804 396575 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896805 319920 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896806 519175 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also Java, and Visual Basic < 1321896806 731585 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what is so interesting about it < 1321896807 443354 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896808 351502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896810 106116 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896811 43005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896812 526936 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: cry < 1321896812 604762 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: nothing, it's not a programming language. < 1321896813 132782 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896813 931680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896814 186403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Let it run a bit more :') < 1321896815 494503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so beautiful < 1321896815 807433 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896816 710416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896818 622065 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896819 524943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896821 280168 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896821 465690 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABANDON SHIP < 1321896822 178704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896823 958925 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896824 999908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896826 108909 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that is one way to break botloops. So in case someone test the program. There are other ways too, such as the bot operators disconnecting them, or the server operator forcibly disconnecting them. < 1321896827 27229 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896827 701269 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896829 880628 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @so `run cat x; # < 1321896830 793371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat x; # not available < 1321896832 128036 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1321896835 183986 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfff < 1321896835 239051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::') < 1321896841 215012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip hackego < 1321896842 633329 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1321896843 115694 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame lambdabot on that one. < 1321896845 219211 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done all I can. < 1321896851 828610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, lambdabot is terrible :P < 1321896855 104291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of its commands prefix with spaces. < 1321896859 516210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the @source error message doesn't. < 1321896867 443472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I use it for botloops :P < 1321896877 572332 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but lambdabot has a great reputation for being secure and free from exploits. < 1321896891 589808 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does HackEgo, but it's so much more spiffy. < 1321896893 955407 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could program lambdabot to prevent you repeating commands too much by public. < 1321896919 214396 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, it is Haskell anyways; a function should always have the same result unless the program is changed. < 1321896919 259683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: smalltalk? < 1321897002 521856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: @source is not pure :P < 1321897012 220121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run is pure, but not @source. < 1321897013 767794 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `,' < 1321897016 257665 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source < 1321897017 24281 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : not available < 1321897020 800279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure you can mutate @source's DB. < 1321897040 331059 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: bye < 1321897055 195272 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Haskell's purity is a lie! < 1321897058 541084 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then record a timestamp of last change, and a timestamp of last query for each channel. < 1321897121 801713 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1321897155 905227 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321897173 443199 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ andrew12 ? welcome < 1321897175 984056 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1321897190 690940 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :are < 1321897192 560451 :are!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1321897193 113247 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just welcome'd a long-time idler :P < 1321897193 527334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1321897207 702490 :are!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :CakeProphet < 1321897225 730401 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ Gregor ? CakeProphet < 1321897228 707409 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :> < 1321897238 110008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's the third welcome andrew12's got. < 1321897243 14685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He must be feeling so welcome. < 1321897258 311376 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol < 1321897280 562254 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What can I say, I don't really contribute anything to this channel except fear, uncertainty and doubt. < 1321897326 62450 :kmc!~keegan@cpe-74-68-127-232.nyc.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1321897443 350530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland? No. whew we don't have room for more esolangers there. oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberland? no Whew. We don't have room for more esolangers there. < 1321897446 114943 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :728) shachaf: wait, _you_ are in northumberland? No. whew we don't have room for more esolangers there. oerjan: Wait, *you* are in Northumberland? no Whew. We don't have room for more esolangers there. < 1321897587 983807 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1321897664 431368 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321897753 175711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ andrew12 ? welcome < 1321897755 675386 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :andrew12: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1321897784 829919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:16:44: in other news: length is stupid. genericLength is good. < 1321897784 901634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:18:11: > let x = [1,2,3] in sum x / genericLength x < 1321897784 956527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:18:12: 2.0 < 1321897793 286743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: i don't think we want length to be able to return a complex number. < 1321897918 433807 :andrew12!~rewt@109.169.72.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1321897973 950760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> genericLength [1,2,3] + (5 :+ 10) < 1321897975 355944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8.0 :+ 10.0 < 1321897980 665800 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure we do. :P < 1321898046 412951 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "fnord juhovh minä olisin ainakin fnord fnord fizzien fnord" => "fnord juhovh I would at least be fnord fnord fizzie's fnord". < 1321898054 375808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: FINALLY YOU'RE HERE. < 1321898064 956236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Why did you translate that for me?) < 1321898087 185728 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: (Well, it was a reply for you, I didn't want to leave you confuzzled.) < 1321898131 819772 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :confizzled. ha ha < 1321898138 460301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott users 516K Nov 20 13:19 qwantz.xz < 1321898142 28483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How can I get this file to you? < 1321898150 848815 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe email, it's pretty small. < 1321898160 758138 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is intrigued by the name. < 1321898170 2128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU SHOULD BE. < 1321898177 59755 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU... WILL BE. < 1321898212 626043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sendin'. < 1321898238 926296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sent; enjoy your "qwantz: Dinosaur Comic transcriptions 2003-2011". < 1321898241 175490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Comics < 1321898248 794737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Comics. Just clarifying! < 1321898254 863690 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cosmics. < 1321898290 611213 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1321898648 292510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: op abuse, the traditional botloop breaker is an annoyed bot admin <--- not op abuse, it's much less disruptive to the channel then waking up a bot admin to ragepart the bot < 1321898648 950304 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want me to live dangerously and just stick it in the bot without testing it? < 1321898656 338411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1321898661 70970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is pretty much no way it won't be amazing. < 1321898676 22816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: exactly, you're reducing natural disruption! that's _playing god_ < 1321898682 710035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz < 1321898682 900819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz < 1321898683 23679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz < 1321898683 173422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz < 1321898683 282259 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1321898683 767248 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1321898683 842880 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1321898683 923033 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1321898686 194484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIND IT QUICKER < 1321898697 982170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but reducing disruption is what ops are /for/ < 1321898703 886819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is #esoteric! < 1321898709 875187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is Freenode! < 1321898714 470312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're here to facilitate the natural levels of disruption! < 1321898783 997929 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :Quit: oh no I am not DYNAMIC enough < 1321898801 722779 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1321898808 183689 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMGSTYLEQUANTZ < 1321898818 288821 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes me want to revive my dormant T-Rex is Lonely Comics >_> < 1321898828 155809 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz < 1321898828 201252 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) < 1321898828 246707 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, qwantz < 1321898840 98856 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I love utahraptor! < 1321898840 742580 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that that is pretty cute! my daily affirmation buys food he doesn't need to know that! that's gross! that dude across the street is thinking " bum < 1321898846 217522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1321898857 511969 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That dude across the street /is/ thinking " bum! < 1321898868 156529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1321898868 876740 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't think that fixed time a day whenever i have, and as a patron, i find that, with this unusual. i'm guessing... a kabazillion dollars < 1321898880 97577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i love you < 1321898880 817335 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you are a t-rex, undisputed king, but neither really wants! < 1321898900 874249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1321898901 646385 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and so: " probably not!" or there could be a picture of a telephone poles, along with t-rex! that's a standard english just to ensure i act like i did before, and perhaps, at the end, to ask me < 1321898910 320870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fungot's " quoting style" really irritates me. < 1321898951 276209 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that happen < 1321899034 211553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1321899034 775804 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so i've been down for like, two minutes!! it's all that came to mind. instead, it's an alternate universe, that's " law and order". and it doesn't have to be shakespeare. < 1321899042 30702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: bad pmunctuation handling < 1321899048 717288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you are best < 1321899061 559473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo Gregor < 1321899062 632033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make him < 1321899063 580906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk again < 1321899088 836505 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I want your babies. < 1321899089 527549 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i must have taken up a new page was slow and expensive! why simulate boring microbes galaxies away if we're just interested in one dude on earth? and why simulate this one dude at all, unless you're trying to find out more, as it's such a small thing, but it would be years down the road! okay. i'll do better next time, ok? < 1321899101 109691 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also: < 1321899105 220774 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo fungot: I want your babies too. < 1321899105 973309 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i don't have a very good student! we have to go." then, hey presto, you're a muslim! me say this: " what?? sweetcheeks? i'm sorry, i wasn't paying attention! < 1321899107 692990 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I want your babies too. < 1321899113 446653 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awwww < 1321899117 889930 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of bot ignores HackEgo :P < 1321899146 894387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is a pioneer in bot-ignore technology. < 1321899147 549534 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that that one incident to say that sentence: it's me god < 1321899148 946732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show 'em the ignores, fizzie. < 1321899154 986518 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1321899155 185870 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot)! < 1321899158 782543 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Do you want me to live dangerously and just stick it in the bot without testing it? fizzie: Yes. There is pretty much no way it won't be amazing. < 1321899161 674746 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :729) Do you want me to live dangerously and just stick it in the bot without testing it? fizzie: Yes. There is pretty much no way it won't be amazing. < 1321899193 602564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny? < 1321899237 952260 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all want to just stick it in the bot. < 1321899240 302684 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh yeah. < 1321899243 99923 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick it in that bot. < 1321899262 217918 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1321899270 978893 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: YES. < 1321899277 9837 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1321899296 838092 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The IOCCC is back on! http://www.ioccc.org | http://esolangs.org/ | #esoteric: Still a place that prefers INTERCAL to Haskell | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1321899297 472659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I actually just skipped to my lines because I assumed they'd be the funny ones. < 1321899436 56224 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bad qoute reader < 1321899493 895127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't actually recall a time where you've spoken about Haskell. < 1321899516 55148 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aside from speaking about how much you prefer C over it (and every other language) < 1321899579 552857 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Gregor.*Haskell < 1321899604 75520 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-04-08.txt:00:12:56: (Haskell is usually the wrong language) < 1321899613 798887 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1321899629 989903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:15:12: * Sgeo is temporarily a Haskell fanatic < 1321899639 954924 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uh oh) < 1321899649 59556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont worry thats from 2010-04-08 < 1321899654 737063 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1321899661 398816 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never been a Haskell fanatic actually. < 1321899676 392632 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fond admirer perhaps. < 1321899698 23232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:00:11: Isn't Perl implemented in Haskell? < 1321899699 937351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual quote < 1321899714 929867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he being srs? < 1321899723 768984 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume he's talking about Pugs. < 1321899746 291550 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really "Perl"... yet. < 1321899759 50863 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perl" is currently Perl 5, in most contexts. < 1321899779 664763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Pugs will never be "Perl"... yet :P < 1321899785 559620 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right. < 1321899789 263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been dead for like 5 years? < 1321899793 340408 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to say Perl 6 isn't Perl yet. < 1321899797 982174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently APPARENTLY people are developing it again buuuuuuut < 1321899815 216371 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though Perl 6 may also never be "Perl"... yet :P < 1321899849 953314 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably has something to do with being a complete clusterfuck with no single developer oversight. < 1321899864 94439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :larry would be the oversight, methinks. < 1321899880 741582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering he's the one who rejects or accepts all the proposals, or at least did in the early days < 1321899887 584342 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... hmmm < 1321899893 834984 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. < 1321899907 543773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the apocalypses. or whatever they're called. < 1321899908 648525 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read "largely community driven" to mean that Larry kind of isn't very active. < 1321899914 977348 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: very early < 1321899948 114599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001, 2002 isn't THAT early < 1321899951 753576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1999 is when perl 6 started iirc < 1321899977 247071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:02:03: Is it too late to try to get involved with Google Summer of Code? < 1321899977 292450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:02:14: THey're probably looking for people who've actually looked at the stuff < 1321899977 423288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:04:37: nope; deadline for applications is the 9th < 1321899977 469269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:05:20: Ok, but don't I need to have some idea of what I want to do, besides just "I'll do what this organization suggests on their GSoC page" < 1321899977 469441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:05:23: ? < 1321899979 195077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:09:08: yes you do < 1321899981 221177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:09:22: socghop.appspot.com < 1321899983 202622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:10:18: I can't just say "I have never even looked at this code, but I'll try doing this suggestion", can I? < 1321899986 213898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:10:28: I mean, and get accepted < 1321899988 232747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm forced to conclude that 2011 > 2010 < 1321900013 482925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1999-2002)/(1999-2011) < 1321900014 794829 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.25 < 1321900025 844231 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's 25% earliness :P < 1321900034 792502 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sound logic < 1321900065 719337 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... I guess 75% early. < 1321900136 195756 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this notion of percentages and earliness makes complete sense. < 1321900139 176076 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise. < 1321900164 305854 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_computer < 1321900173 548396 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to make a faster computer and name it OK Computer < 1321900285 154866 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1321900285 237776 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1321900285 237916 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1321900370 935097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :average speed computer < 1321900458 97822 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it would be the fastest computer in the world, with all of its processing power used to generate really shitty sounding radiohead covers, tribute songs, blog posts, fan fiction, and fan club websites. < 1321900515 209029 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1321900557 738977 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: lololol BEST QUOTE EVER X-D < 1321900571 296436 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I actually kinda like Haskell, but I love hating it more than I like liking it. < 1321900579 612686 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, good. < 1321900583 713836 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is as it should be. < 1321900587 792277 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we cannot ALL be Haskell fanboys < 1321900598 494689 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be balance. < 1321900624 595318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: X-D < 1321900625 437312 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1321900648 423297 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair I haven't written anything substantial in it in years. < 1321900672 318296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: how much of a 133t h45k311 h4ck3r are you? < 1321900673 577821 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1321900762 123960 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7tew1apXqc <-- this was written in Haskell < 1321900762 476186 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what was that weird website you found? < 1321900787 122113 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sourcereal.com? < 1321900796 528946 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1321900802 499435 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes! < 1321900803 241964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I like the fade to show HOW REALISTIC it is. < 1321900809 186236 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's a good site < 1321900824 722399 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also how blue Mt. Hood apparently is < 1321900830 284787 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gimme a break :P < 1321900846 240847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Excuse me no??? < 1321900895 503413 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I have a suspicion that zzo is actually the webmaster behind sourcereal.com < 1321900933 90946 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hopefully, that list will give you an idea about what you may learn when reading this cereal page, or, you might find something useful reading other websites." -- zzo < 1321900962 395205 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321900974 407439 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1321900977 258498 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is very zzoesque < 1321901002 967529 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :z-zosque < 1321901048 881183 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi I'll pay you money if you write this paper for me. < 1321901068 645242 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what paper :( < 1321901073 353416 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have to leave like now < 1321901077 221894 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1321901080 123765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only like a 10 page report with questionnaire statistics and two interview transcripts that need to be cited. < 1321901108 322655 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with internet sources. it's a proposal to incorporate more education of linux into my university's curriculum. < 1321901113 471254 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very, uh, exciting. < 1321901119 4130 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds miserable < 1321901123 165101 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also due today. < 1321901134 144832 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway have fun leaving like now. < 1321901163 647085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321901168 970945 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more upset with lack of programming language/paradigm diversity than lack of linux education (why would you need linux education) < 1321901171 957990 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1321901174 451415 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving like now < 1321901182 338853 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does anyone have any good "lol linux is totally p0pu14r" < 1321901183 791948 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sources < 1321901207 989919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, who made the topic ping me? < 1321901235 436427 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well the basic premise is that a) we do not expose students enough to linux environments b) linux expertise has high industry demand < 1321901248 660309 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1321901261 939149 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes I agree, but I need to also create a presentation on the topic, and I didn't want to completely bore my non-computer-science audience. < 1321901262 774127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: counterpoint: linux sucks < 1321901267 110540 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: What school is it that doesn't ... < 1321901272 569081 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, that's irrelevant < 1321901279 334654 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: my school. IT'S SEKRET < 1321901285 518107 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: and, they do, but not very much < 1321901295 210626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(its georgia tech.. it hink??) < 1321901298 21814 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1321901299 706513 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Of the two universities I've been at, two have had students use Linux primarily from day one. < 1321901299 836466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1321901301 877065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is it from georgia here < 1321901304 451273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive < 1321901306 861561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you could mention Linux's share in the server market < 1321901307 262366 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(CS students) < 1321901310 582420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen that uninvinvinvinersity name in here before < 1321901311 640950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends to impress people < 1321901316 805157 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes that's good. < 1321901340 697668 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: southern polytechnic state university. it's like the shitty version of GA tech that's cheaper and easier to get into. :) < 1321901419 607701 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo HackBot is proof of why Linux is important. < 1321901422 108346 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackBot is proof of why Linux is important. < 1321901431 572565 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's supposedly geared more towards "practical" education. aka helping people get jobs. < 1321901440 78552 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the "people use linux" point is the important one. < 1321901440 161744 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1321901525 937030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this. < 1321901565 726889 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not in the US. :P < 1321901603 215910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this. < 1321901605 601996 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :730) the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this. < 1321901620 664210 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see our "cs" department. they have a course called computer science and the society. < 1321901630 942806 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the US universities are businesses that serve as a pointless barrier for entering a profession. oh, also they do research stuff. < 1321901641 483593 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was disappointed you didn't quote my gay joke < 1321901651 226037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh where was that < 1321901653 927690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i finished logreading < 1321901659 564871 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :up where i was talking to zzo < 1321901684 34037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good god what have i missed < 1321901687 392872 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have to read the wonderful conversation between shachaf copumpkin oerjan Ngevd (I think?) and I < 1321901696 126928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it about < 1321901701 693458 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"maths" < 1321901704 689779 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1321901707 933644 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1321901709 745066 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is it < 1321901712 200176 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to read it < 1321901712 981068 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1321901713 164379 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww maths < 1321901719 51722 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1321901723 157030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do that < 1321901725 398282 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not funny < 1321901726 484043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bottom, strictness, category theory, type theory. primarily it was about me not understanding _|_ as it's used in Haskell. < 1321901739 797623 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cs :/ < 1321901748 442615 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't me I don't think < 1321901752 324157 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "it's awesome" I mean you'll probably hate reading it and seeing how wrong I am the whole time. < 1321901765 277130 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Sgeo was there too < 1321901824 693180 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know very few things about category theory apart from the trivialities, mosty limits and inverse limits i suppose < 1321901847 800886 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :those were a new addition because we needed inverse limits for... something < 1321901849 99867 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some of the basic terminology and some laws and that's it. < 1321901854 702048 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know about category theory is that it is a category < 1321901865 750890 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are its morphisms? < 1321901878 384189 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians < 1321901887 847804 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1321901897 104043 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :functors I imagine. < 1321901903 814004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: was it today < 1321901904 92721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1321901907 705820 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted to be a homomorphism < 1321901908 159352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the previous < 1321901908 778639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :day < 1321901909 297324 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're talking about "category of categories" < 1321901909 427882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(utc) < 1321901918 36069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: *category of small cats < 1321901921 950137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kittens) < 1321901922 908286 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't actually ever pay attention to UTC < 1321901934 811578 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it was today UTC < 1321902002 998659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ah i left off at the point of you beign all |im hate calculus" < 1321902024 887956 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh yes that was very very early. < 1321902026 341643 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew calculus < 1321902058 595681 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mainly hate calculus because of all the effort I had to put into taking three university courses on it. < 1321902098 46115 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy maths at the moment < 1321902101 701101 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please don't change that < 1321902112 276261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sorta maths < 1321902119 958485 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like maths too, but not calculus. < 1321902138 394427 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the maths I know about, except for geometry < 1321902140 163733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im maths < 1321902159 931730 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also everyone hates geometry, was there a memo I missed or something? < 1321902160 55292 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you know about < 1321902166 48209 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :discrete math is intuitive and nice thanks to my leet cs skillz < 1321902169 313074 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know why the identity element of a group is unique? < 1321902171 404605 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculus hurts. < 1321902192 793144 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doing geometry atm < 1321902193 103193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, basic calculus, moderately sophisticated conventional algebra, matrices. < 1321902205 997735 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in besicovitch spaces of course < 1321902220 670824 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is based on the Scottish course, of course. < 1321902222 943864 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :k that stuff < 1321902227 718411 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to go :/ < 1321902232 533364 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bues. < 1321902233 706146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bored oklopol Ngevd :( < 1321902236 831949 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like matrix multiplication, because when you get over how damn weird it is, it all makes perfect sense < 1321902242 814403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you bored Ngevd oklopol :'( (maybe ???) < 1321902255 230287 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like category theory because when you get over how damn weird it is it's still weird. < 1321902260 214432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just faintly smiling and rocking side to side < 1321902265 620824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you do that a lot < 1321902268 467970 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's cs :/ < 1321902269 485034 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1321902274 442245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1321902275 411076 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS is a kind of maths. < 1321902278 165118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION faintly smiles and rocks side to side < 1321902280 35631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1321902289 103436 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: have you read about finite fields? < 1321902293 462804 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1321902311 840414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote it's not even about strictness actually not strictly about strictness, anyway < 1321902312 496244 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually read that much about anything < 1321902313 872445 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it, a finite n-dimensional space in which matric multiplication is a linear map. < 1321902314 450247 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :731) it's not even about strictness actually not strictly about strictness, anyway < 1321902315 602465 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:06: \f x-> reads \f->\x->... *Clearly* there's not much evaluation you can do of an unapplied lambda. < 1321902318 37233 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmm < 1321902318 835909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: sure there is < 1321902359 467882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, they're fields with only finitely many elements, where fields are this abstract algebra thing. < 1321902363 118575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:02:12: > (\x -> undefined) < 1321902363 210720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:02:13: Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> a) < 1321902363 256227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:02:13: arising from a use of `... < 1321902363 256390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:02:39: in my mind this is forcing (\x -> undefined) (I'm just going to call it const undefined now) < 1321902366 572067 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah < 1321902368 915630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: stop being an idiot, that error is compile-time < 1321902369 14216 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes sense < 1321902379 982064 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the confusion was not a result of that error < 1321902380 119561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (fix id) :: (a -> b) < 1321902381 526182 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> b) < 1321902381 892826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1321902384 939192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite loop terminating omg < 1321902418 840649 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id < 1321902420 294212 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1321902423 787359 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah < 1321902456 514151 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you know about (n-1)-order Markov models based on frequency analysis of character n-grams and their applications in autolinguistic lexeme generation? < 1321902456 806556 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The internet is where I don't have to be a hyperintelligent... entity < 1321902456 923173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, specifically, fields are more or less sets with two operators which behave broadly similar to + and * over the reals. < 1321902461 940391 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I just made most of that terminology up) < 1321902519 85204 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually no I didn't. < 1321902524 197070 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made it sound fancier than it is. < 1321902563 751859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: are you a hyperintelligent entity usually < 1321902567 436784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you god Ngevd < 1321902572 85982 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I'm expected to be < 1321902609 275128 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If enough people believe I am a god, I will BECOME AS A GOD!!! < 1321902624 817731 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I find the trick to appearing as a hyperintelligent entity in real life is to only speak when you actually know something < 1321902628 632243 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to otherwise remain silent. < 1321902634 900140 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't follow this protocol online. :P < 1321902642 458153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I don't do that, nobody seems to have noticed? < 1321902697 415791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This results in the unfortunate consequence that people seem to think I'm an expert on, say, determining the ionic composition of water. < 1321902697 789050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume < 1321902704 598327 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id) < 1321902705 14961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. < 1321902706 385092 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ah, weird. < 1321902716 90462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Aren't you? < 1321902721 404765 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my "stupid filter" turns off when I'm in this channel, for some reason. :P < 1321902742 684570 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, of course, but the presumption offends me. < 1321902746 463578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:54: copumpkin: I thought this was a classic example in #haskell. < 1321902746 614463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:59: * copumpkin shrugs < 1321902746 660097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:59: copumpkin: it's not. < 1321902749 927172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People ask me for help with their Chemistry homework < 1321902753 367062 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do chemistry < 1321902753 605605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know we have a haskell expert to correct shachaf < 1321902769 628747 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I was "it's not"ing that thing directly above me. < 1321902770 194940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here in Scotland we have transcended the need for mere mortal chemistry homework. < 1321902782 413109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see anything else relevant. < 1321902787 678508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:26:08: -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: You sort out this mess yourself). < 1321902787 727931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a lol though. < 1321902797 802964 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, immortal chemistry homework!? < 1321902818 989716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We transcended that as well. < 1321902821 291251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:29:14: shachaf: I had this discussion a year or so ago with people regarding spoon and why the denotation view of strictness is bullshit because we can actually distinguish things operationally, and people should stop masturbating to denotation < 1321902821 381933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is made sad by this viewpoint. < 1321902851 88777 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION masturbates vigorously < 1321902899 512864 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't masturbate to ANYTHING < 1321902902 631360 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah considering I don't actually frequent #haskell and don't know anything about the classic examples there < 1321902903 436959 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nyahahaha! < 1321902909 662238 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably was in relation to something else. < 1321902936 165591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type CommandQueue = Ptr CommandQueuec < 1321902936 248056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no why would you do that! < 1321902939 806048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :library I DON'T LIKE YOU < 1321902989 338947 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I need to focus on not IRC < 1321902990 848724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK let's try this. < 1321903004 542784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data CLDeviceInfoRetval = DeviceInfoRetvalString String | DeviceInfoRetvalCLuint CLuint | DeviceInfoRetvalCLbool CLbool | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceFPConfig DeviceFPConfig | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceExecCapabilities DeviceExecCapabilities | DeviceInfoRetvalCLulong CLulong | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceMemCacheType DeviceMemCacheType | DeviceInfoRetvalCLsizei CLsizei | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceLocalMemType DeviceLocalMemType | DeviceInfoRetvalCLsizeiList [CLsizei] < 1321903004 609833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | DeviceInfoRetvalPlatformID PlatformID | DeviceInfoRetvalCommandQueueProperties CommandQueueProperties | DeviceInfoRetvalDeviceType DeviceType < 1321903012 438635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: please ensure cosmic punishment of the designer of this library for me < 1321903015 625127 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: going into IRC rehab < 1321903019 668285 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321903123 900714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL_CONTEXT_PROPERTIES cl_context_properties[] Return the properties argument specified in clCreateContext. < 1321903127 792178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah!!! < 1321903133 467912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this library forces people to create their own pointers < 1321903134 672437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm crying < 1321903138 880903 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1321903145 738821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean that was obvious but like < 1321903148 121337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for that thing :( < 1321903150 211434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a pionter < 1321903154 815082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what < 1321903162 358450 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People beep my name too much. < 1321903176 36795 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you beep my name, you have to brace yourself for My wrath. < 1321903229 566759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :noted! < 1321903253 936065 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS DEVICEID A POINTER < 1321903281 361119 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1321903665 50051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES OPENCL DO REFCOUNTING < 1321903687 224110 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a haskell opencl binding? < 1321903703 585862 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying that opencl itself sucks to bind to? < 1321903705 924284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I'm trying to make http://hackage.haskell.org/package/OpenCLWrappers less terrible :P < 1321903727 546081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of my issues are with the wrapper, and almost all of those issues are inherited from the dead package it's forked from < 1321903735 556084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm too busy yelling at everything :P < 1321903751 371706 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :please make it not suck < 1321903783 965892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: That's a long-term goal. My short-term goals look like "make it use exceptions rather than threading around (IO (Either ErrorCode Result)) ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE". < 1321903793 49940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Make it use ForeignPtrs rather than making you free everything" :P < 1321903799 391735 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a long shot, but is anyone here in my ancient history class? < 1321903799 807582 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1321903813 54533 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I may be old, but I'm not that old < 1321903836 71157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I should clarify, it's not ALWAYS (Either ErrorCode r). If r would be (), it's instead (Maybe ErrorCode). < 1321903840 644209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to keep things interesting, I guess! < 1321903849 436464 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321903865 285170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: did I show you combineOr? I forget :P < 1321903870 603622 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1321903880 812362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: https://github.com/jkarlson/OpenCLWrappers/blob/master/System/OpenCL/Wrappers/Utils.hs#L71 < 1321903892 400958 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321903902 315172 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that < 1321903916 379365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: it's used in exactly one place, on a list of Foo where Foo is a newtype of CLulong < 1321903929 848043 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :deriving (Bits) < 1321903936 915265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: i just unwrapped the newtype instead < 1321903945 262631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' (.|.) 0 [ foo | Cons foo <- xs ] < 1321903948 217218 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :derive bits on the newtype and it'll just work < 1321903956 589632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I might < 1321903957 583004 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do so many esolangers start with a BF derivative? < 1321903982 468289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if I should offer an interface to this awful refcounting stuff < 1321903992 410547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ some of these can allocate GPU memory < 1321904007 641329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tempted to just remove them so that you can't cause segfaults that easily < 1321904109 86943 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1321904119 119022 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello aloril < 1321904129 482453 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The enigma that is aloril. < 1321904244 719755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i was going to ask ais523 but then i realised he uses CUDA < 1321904270 22644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really use CUDA, more I've seen it before < 1321904293 569102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You complained about the toolkit once and said you might switch to OpenCL if it keeps getting worse? < 1321904340 415768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my boss did that < 1321904348 832251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you're the one who said it. < 1321904350 72281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the toolkit was getting worse over time, although it was quite good to start with < 1321904363 441049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's him who complained, I reported the complaint here (and I agree with it) < 1321904416 519982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You reported it silently, at least :P < 1321904422 275339 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1321904428 323602 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321904439 638769 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye Phantom_Hoover < 1321904440 671984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Phantom_Hoover < 1321904454 265898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've *got* to work out what that thing is which makes rolling my hand on the left of the touchpad close the chat tab. < 1321904476 96567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think that these actually do use GPU RAM... < 1321904485 156933 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, ais523, CAN HUMIDITY, FLUORESCENT LIGHTS AND MICROWAVES KILL COMPUTERS????? < 1321904488 383585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'll just keep exposing the free function. < 1321904494 818806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm wait < 1321904501 195516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not safe, since it might get re-freed < 1321904698 575814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I advise against microwaving a computer < 1321904720 169156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noooooooooo < 1321904735 865391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For you see, I left my motherboard in the microwave to get rid of the humidity. < 1321905245 296866 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321905454 989369 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May I enquire as to the presence of cliques amongst schools in the UK? < 1321905475 320895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may, although why you think you'll get answers here is anyone's guess. < 1321905496 469442 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You go to school in the UK < 1321905513 246088 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I < 1321905529 134806 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 does something that may have something to do with schools in the UK < 1321905536 780132 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Universities, actually. < 1321905896 29902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is a ``Ph.D. student''. < 1321905898 797543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hobo.) < 1321905938 805214 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know what elliott does < 1321905952 575439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a hobo assistant. < 1321905964 457773 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aah < 1321905987 985226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, where do you get your education? < 1321905997 968349 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I want to steal it < 1321906241 807754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: hobo store < 1321907670 868363 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a student of some sort; personally, I've not kept track of which bit of secondary education he's in. < 1321907731 173512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're all hobophobic. < 1321907734 478677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1321907741 746164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1321907749 261198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I can't get over how that sounds like "homophobic" said by someone with a cold. < 1321907872 293270 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321907872 378355 :CakeProphet!~eris@h65.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1321907872 378500 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1321907881 316582 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi my name is Adam and I'm addicted to IRC < 1321907902 601569 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1321907903 916752 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Adam, I'm Nathan and I'm smug and think I'm better than you < 1321907916 8876 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, I knew it. < 1321907983 809099 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I picked a bad topic for this crap < 1321908032 865760 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I now have a giant bottle of caffeinated energy soda. < 1321908040 200995 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did we ever get invaded by Haskellites? < 1321908046 692219 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1321908052 443657 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all ran away when they saw my snarky comment. < 1321908054 483885 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric /is/ Haskellites, largely. < 1321908070 162255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are at least three people in here who came from #esoteric. < 1321908071 778537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one bot. < 1321908078 917104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. < 1321908080 293527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From #haskell. < 1321908087 443901 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a lot of people in here who came from #esoteric . < 1321908089 715784 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And several bots. < 1321908090 958485 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came from the wiki < 1321908095 987944 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean regulars? < 1321908099 150290 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like, today... recently < 1321908104 224161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :three random people appeared < 1321908108 217012 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a new bot < 1321908122 755842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's actually two. kmc no longer graces us with his presence :'( < 1321908125 716388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote kmc < 1321908128 693623 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :686) COCKS [...] truly cocks \ 720) You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theory. < 1321908175 961699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also by Haskellites I mean "one who fondly regards and practices in the deep ways of Haskell voodoo" < 1321908180 608161 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not #haskellites < 1321908194 288797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a difference < 1321908197 921709 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1321908207 980060 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a Haskellite and not a #haskellite < 1321908221 901023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha well < 1321908224 534088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then < 1321908237 290993 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: kmc is on vacation. < 1321908243 517237 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also monqy? < 1321908245 327941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vacation from BEING INTERESTING. < 1321908247 786313 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant people who religiously obey the works of Mr Curry < 1321908260 634507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is an hornonronoronrorary #haskell member. < 1321908261 968837 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uh... elliott, but not elliottt < 1321908281 890178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both elliott and elliottt are in #haskell < 1321908293 622821 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't "come from #haskell". < 1321908305 544228 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, I didn't hear about #esoteric in #haskell. I'm pretty sure. < 1321908315 832319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Where did you come frmo,t hen? < 1321908319 924818 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you are a migrate. < 1321908321 529645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, edwardk has been in here before too. < 1321908327 60186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not from #haskell. < 1321908329 690454 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a geographical system in which people my simultaneously exist in two locations < 1321908334 122701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... who else was it? < 1321908334 894823 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/my/may/ < 1321908338 145923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr. < 1321908339 879278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shapr's been in here. < 1321908347 539910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think it was him. < 1321908372 285741 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No idea. < 1321908402 407041 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I suspect several #haskellites are in fact #esoteric migrants. < 1321908425 380114 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what this means: I have no idea < 1321908450 421145 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before I came here, I had never heard of Haskell < 1321908459 251520 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had barely heard of the freenode IRC server < 1321908485 63292 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Ngev's conversion account < 1321908508 421029 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a d in my name, gorram it < 1321908513 81433 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Before I came to #esoteric, I had never even hurd of Befunge, but soon I felt His glory." < 1321908518 111324 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi im back from leaving like then < 1321908525 369289 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah! < 1321908533 108392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You realise you came here in July :P < 1321908539 554087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1321908564 591296 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is an ancient antediluvian, sort of. < 1321908577 862377 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I am able to write an almost funtioning bf interpreter in Haskell < 1321908587 120154 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: sweet < 1321908591 384925 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my first Haskell program < 1321908610 113376 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And re-invented zippers... by thinking of how to implement bf in Piet < 1321908618 358366 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I...forget what my first haskell thing was < 1321908659 163516 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first Haskell thing translated brainfuck to Piet assembler < 1321908672 415641 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1321908680 881072 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was designed to take advantage of oerjan's work < 1321908687 896240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing i can remember doing was just a boring markov irc bot :( < 1321908696 652076 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may have done some stuff before then < 1321908701 541526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: why :( markov irc bots are great < 1321908703 674215 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence it only used a tape size of three < 1321908708 962284 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guesssssssss..... < 1321908714 798067 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, boring ones aren't < 1321908718 697360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hi fungot < 1321908719 441294 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, i wanted to talk to a t-rex... nostalgia, doesn't that make them equally valid? like, a pirate. we've all been there. < 1321908722 129536 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't TOO boring < 1321908727 112045 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just wasn't SPECTACULAR < 1321908744 460532 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i love programming languages stuff and i think compiling to piet is nifty < 1321908747 851495 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1321908770 418951 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiled to Piet assembler. It needs another program to actually output Piet < 1321908781 282890 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only program that exists is written in Perl < 1321908824 142679 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. < 1321908838 470221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is piet assembler any interesting < 1321908892 786418 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/538375 < 1321908893 402538 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you make a compiler to piet that "optimized" programs into looking kind of like pretty pictures < 1321908902 926316 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thanks to CakeProphet for his tremendous help" < 1321908906 196721 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember any of this. < 1321908933 809266 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing this was back when I frequented #python < 1321908942 133782 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was it < 1321908944 809562 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#python, that is < 1321908947 671287 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid of it < 1321908950 917099 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spent considerable amounts of time actually helping people with Python questions. < 1321908958 336100 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's, meh. < 1321908965 605683 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the same as any other programming language channel (except #haskell) < 1321908990 910479 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :people there are generally helpful, but others can be rude and unecessarily pedantic. others simply don't know what they're talking about. < 1321909005 174671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321909040 578686 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's true of #haskell too. < 1321909042 670606 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: also it is incredibly easy to write "unreadable" code, by Python standards. < 1321909059 219231 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "unreadable"? < 1321909061 465227 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by people who program in Python and are bad at reading code < 1321909065 135660 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: subjective, mostly. < 1321909088 511459 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I'd have trouble reading a lot of "readable" python code, and would do better with some less "readable" stuff < 1321909094 797533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf++ < 1321909103 87194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell used to be better :( < 1321909108 21891 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1321909122 664598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most importantly, it used to not go at a thousand lines per second :P) < 1321909124 256696 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric used to be better, then elliott came along. >:( < 1321909133 744424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: It so wasn't better, I've read the logs. < 1321909137 472121 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't fathom #esoteric without elliott. < 1321909137 835055 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ha. ha. ha ha.) < 1321909138 715731 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were so stupid :'( < 1321909148 500699 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but look at how much I've changed! < 1321909149 640308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It was much quieter. < 1321909153 852892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Exactly! Not at ALL! < 1321909159 140212 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is the life of the party < 1321909177 973606 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely I have. < 1321909190 936088 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been... what.. 4 years now? < 1321909193 530327 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :5? < 1321909312 852840 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I joined this channel I had maybe a few months of experience with Python. < 1321909321 166347 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I am a VERITABLE MASTER (not really) < 1321909491 778777 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a transformation is about to take place (I think) < 1321909500 726521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what transformation < 1321909503 745139 :CakeProphet!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :Kallisti < 1321909505 983471 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAM < 1321909511 4460 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for Freenode staff. < 1321909512 438071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should have nabbed that before you < 1321909515 848867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: oh they take hours < 1321909524 681300 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I WILL WAIT < 1321909528 217642 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YOU WILL NOT HAVE THIS NICK < 1321909542 133140 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is a silly name anyway. this is much better. < 1321909569 716475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you change nicks permanently im putting you on ignore < 1321909662 679347 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed nicks permanentlish < 1321909681 595901 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321909687 652630 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1321909693 104826 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd! < 1321909710 408572 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How're you? < 1321909718 876949 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OH LOOK IT TOOK LIKE 10 MINUTES FOR STAFF TO DROP THE NICK < 1321909721 148312 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now? < 1321909729 75893 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also you're just looking for an excuse to ignore me. < 1321909773 698398 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon no-one's nick here will be the same as their wiki username! < 1321909806 868795 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which < 1321909809 589895 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should change wiki usernames < 1321909826 756641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask an admin. < 1321909833 275046 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1321909848 761630 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, excuse me. hi? < 1321909852 555272 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi is not a valid question < 1321909862 691140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1321909870 365594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't change wiki usernames < 1321909873 502484 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1321909873 547845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to ask Graue < 1321909879 482012 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about I just < 1321909882 303910 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a new username < 1321909885 155006 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and move everything to that. < 1321909899 789335 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, just start fresh basically. because my current user stuff is pointless :P < 1321909965 615204 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new era of legitimacy. yes. that is definitely what will happen. < 1321909992 538932 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what with my unfinished regex language and clusterfuck graph automaton and now this idea for a reversible graph thing. < 1321910009 736054 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit will be graphed and regular expressioned the fuck out. < 1321910108 223417 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION joins ##c just to see what it's like. < 1321910116 267475 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :silent. < 1321910137 360806 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :422 silent people. < 1321910144 769137 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be debugging C programs. < 1321910225 487430 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upderpinski triangle < 1321910233 571181 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1321910248 87886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321910498 102769 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1321910502 371699 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321910628 3024 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, do you think Great Britain looks more like a venus fly trap or a weird jagged bifurcated penis. < 1321910642 413084 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Write a Num instance for (a -> a) -> (a -> a) < 1321910653 850607 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble is, you _really_ want a forall a. first < 1321910668 713249 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you cannot define things like multiplication < 1321910743 609728 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think. lessee. < 1321910778 810175 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ?m (?n (f :: Int -> Int)) :: Int -> Int < 1321910779 800324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (SimpleReflect.FromExpr Int) < 1321910780 10294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `f' at :1:8 < 1321910780 55544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Possible fix: < 1321910784 323190 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1321910789 689650 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ?m (?n (?f :: Int -> Int)) :: Int -> Int < 1321910790 672659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (?f::Int -> Int, ?m::t -> Int -> Int, ?n::(Int -> Int) -> t) => Int -> Int < 1321910811 216687 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess multiplication might work < 1321910843 120571 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need linear implicit parameters < 1321910851 133900 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity they killed them < 1321910854 501563 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: either way it is clearly dwarfed by the long bifurcated dick of Scandinavia. < 1321910856 398534 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ?m ?n (?f :: Int -> Int) :: Int -> Int < 1321910857 306243 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (?f::Int -> Int, ?m::t -> (Int -> Int) -> Int -> Int, ?n::t) => Int -> Int < 1321910857 624684 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what is that? < 1321910875 437642 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :a feature GHC supported way back before I started haskell < 1321910884 67851 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/The_Monad.Reader/Issue2/FunWithLinearImplicitParameters < 1321910887 147905 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exponentiation won't work < 1321910992 672022 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log elliott.*CakeProphet.*implicit.*parameters < 1321910998 170617 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-11-21.txt:21:29:52: `log elliott.*CakeProphet.*implicit.*parameters < 1321911001 475109 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1321911012 755301 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log elliott.*implicit.*parameters < 1321911017 765537 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-09-22.txt:17:43:20: Implicit parameters are a misfeature and should never be used; nobody at all wants them to stay in the language, and they've been used approximately once. < 1321911036 536224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that twice, then. < 1321911047 288799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot and an article in the Monad.Reader. < 1321911118 961504 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I think implicit parameters can be good. < 1321911127 6212 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they need to be used wisely. < 1321911142 3485 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not because you're bad at writing Haskell. :P < 1321911208 192147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: There's an example piece of code where giving it the inferred type signature changes its semantics with implicit parameters, IIRC. < 1321911224 916152 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_0? < 1321911390 787931 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok i guess multiplication might work <-- well, although only with the more complicated type ((a -> a) -> a -> a) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a < 1321911441 747485 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can't wait to see what church complex numbers would look like. < 1321911458 54168 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1321911462 331538 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers themselves would just be a pair < 1321911474 418575 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the associated functions that make them interesting < 1321911475 639674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: this article was interesting until they whipped out the unsafe functions < 1321911482 117095 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :church binary search tree? < 1321911515 381649 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: there is a process for converting any adt to church representation < 1321911537 496128 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even gadt's according to what i recently read on reddit < 1321911541 46772 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1321911611 612583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: ah yes, it is even referenced in that article: "So the semantics of the program depends on whether or not foo has a type < 1321911611 693925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :signature. Yikes!" < 1321911631 36626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was linear implicit parameters < 1321911638 280030 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1321911769 48236 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has an explicit type I assume < 1321911848 783367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: not quite: < 1321911850 335369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is important that we give a real type signature: < 1321911850 454295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x :: Int = reflect [0,1] does not make any difference!" < 1321911857 80150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but x = reflect [0,1] :: Int might < 1321912018 805167 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't even aware you could declare types on patterns. < 1321912049 384659 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well, x isn't really a pattern actually < 1321912086 344104 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x :: Int = 2 in x < 1321912087 183172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1321912112 909998 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let [x,y] :: [Int] = [1,2] in x < 1321912113 755481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1321912136 47500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an extension < 1321912143 541676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very useful with exceptions < 1321912149 481705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :m `catch` \(_::Foo) -> ... < 1321912179 2812 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so you can use it to make case statements on different types in a typeclass. < 1321912183 749582 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's useful. < 1321912208 583248 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....right? < 1321912231 657500 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1321912284 274095 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can use it in lambdas passed to higher order functions to specify a concrete type. < 1321912350 811497 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type-based case expressions would be fun. I guess you can achieve that with Typeable actually. < 1321912362 556629 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell new exception system uses some tricks to essentially allow it to do "case statements on different types" in the Exception typeclass. < 1321912374 964906 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's what catch relies on < 1321912391 905157 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you just chain together catches? < 1321912405 6824 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there < 1321912406 7284 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has never used exception handling in Haskell. < 1321912416 436833 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s a specific function for taking a list < 1321912422 623522 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1321912433 943695 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can chain together too, i guess < 1321912463 940523 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t catch < 1321912464 944494 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. IO a -> (IOError -> IO a) -> IO a < 1321912480 744939 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the IO catch from the report, which is much more limited < 1321912487 910533 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.catch < 1321912488 258580 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOError is an existential I'm guessing. < 1321912488 939695 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a e. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => IO a -> (e -> IO a) -> IO a < 1321912501 249384 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: no i think it's an actual ADT < 1321912503 383759 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1321912509 260658 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :type IOError = IOException < 1321912513 969133 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell report has no existentials < 1321912516 43272 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :data IOException < 1321912532 313067 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1321912543 807260 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so do you actually use exceptions? < 1321912552 327433 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen elliott use them. < 1321912581 394689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't use exceptions, you don't write much non-boilerplate code in IO < 1321912598 267734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the haskell new exception system uses some tricks to essentially allow it to do "case statements on different types" in the Exception typeclass. < 1321912602 436616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's not _that_ tricky :P < 1321912603 191918 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot recall if i've used them < 1321912603 986488 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or don't write fault-tolerant IO code. < 1321912606 307491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just Typeable < 1321912611 170761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: it's not about fault-tolerance < 1321912620 708771 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well ok it's really just Typeable, the extra trick is for the subtyping < 1321912720 703444 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most things i've written are very mathematical, so not very complicated IO < 1321912795 396446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think Kallisti is living under the delusion that you write actual programs < 1321912799 481510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are, shall we say, a "programmer" < 1321912801 130888 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not much need to actually catch erros < 1321912804 213078 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rs < 1321912815 547641 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible. < 1321912823 844969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has no need for love < 1321912833 419329 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! :( < 1321912835 398948 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321912853 980283 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HA HA HA POLYGLOT PUN < 1321912868 516974 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :polyglot typo pun < 1321912870 530502 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1321912912 579777 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait what, i assuming you are making a pun on eros but that really doesn't fit there. < 1321912923 512801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the joke :P < 1321912939 591470 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think elliott is living under the delusion that you are a non-mythical human being. < 1321912940 932077 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*am < 1321912946 815246 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are, shall we say, "not a viking" < 1321912956 84138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...says someone called "Kallisti". < 1321912990 557423 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: obviously I am an apple. < 1321912995 389139 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321912998 302048 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not a human being < 1321913002 397298 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321913003 939691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pkzip we missed you!!! < 1321913016 226980 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were getting all uncompressed! < 1321913038 909359 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am logged as pkzip ? I thought my changed nickname wud < 1321913043 448462 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kick in by now < 1321913047 190501 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which nick do you hate the most? CakeProphet or Kallisti? < 1321913053 261489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pkzip: you have to change it in your client settings < 1321913059 755426 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :your opinion is important, or something. < 1321913060 267122 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1321913061 670524 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1321913062 532596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: every time I see "CakeProphet" I puke < 1321913070 562196 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1321913075 782750 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: it's how he stays thin < 1321913079 597926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kallisti: and < 1321913081 92182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate puking < 1321913082 211118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1321913083 163080 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see elliott is trying the old reverse psychology < 1321913083 301585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate you < 1321913086 781052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i will hate you even more if you do that < 1321913087 457647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1321913089 885295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might leave forever < 1321913110 282593 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it double-reverse < 1321913113 282940 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh no, I want to APPEAR NON-OBNOXIOUS AMONGST MY PEERS. :> < 1321913121 536359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're failing < 1321913121 961731 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :his reverse psychology is not working. < 1321913122 610438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really badly < 1321913135 5189 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my name has ever annoyed anyone < 1321913136 22343 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A92B.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1321913176 3544 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MISSPELLED MONKEY KILL KILL KILL < 1321913193 9931 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: stop misspelling monqy < 1321913217 133857 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:04 < elliott> and i will hate you even more if you do that < 1321913219 260088 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what exactly < 1321913224 664243 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall mentioning the doing of anything. < 1321913226 289220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :become CakeProphet < 1321913230 907248 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1321913231 1041 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-189.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1321913243 364757 :pkzip!~a@109.160.202.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cake WILL APPEAR < 1321913245 43039 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so wait, now oerjan has me confused. < 1321913250 950405 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I numbed to "cakeprophet" < 1321913251 593450 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1321913264 702322 :Kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :kallisti < 1321913267 323279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1321913267 839693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes good < 1321913277 776405 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was Kallisti better < 1321913284 276181 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1321913287 240467 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1321913300 738355 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of these days my nick history database will overflow and everyone i don't recognize will be banned. < 1321913314 296374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick poop < 1321913334 953925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've changed my name twice (or thrice, if you count my temporary name after I decided I didn't want my first name but before I decided on my second) < 1321913347 591515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I joined here before I had settled on monqy though < 1321913360 211011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what were your namnesemz < 1321913362 154637 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :z < 1321913363 773039 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz < 1321913367 220482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION slep in chanel < 1321913373 585514 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one before monqy was monky < 1321913380 996341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before that money? < 1321913384 98526 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1321913384 820389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :money to monqy a two step process < 1321913411 980790 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like talking about things that happened before monky.... < 1321913414 348165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it was wonky < 1321913466 93334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :xxkallistixx < 1321913469 57831 :xxkallistixx!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeaaaaah this is way better < 1321913471 822121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: were you................................... "dagoth ur, mad god" < 1321913486 67285 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i doubt that. < 1321913496 774566 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was not dagoth ur, mad god < 1321913510 41224 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless he was doing some _really_ good trolling < 1321913512 439919 :xxkallistixx!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :xxk4111st1_darkb < 1321913521 167663 :xxk4111st1_darkb!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww < 1321913523 479763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :were you: a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, aa, ab, ac, < 1321913531 613639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxk4111st1_darkb: btw ur spamming #haskell < 1321913532 448683 :xxk4111st1_darkb!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :kallisti < 1321913532 729110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxk4111st1_darkb: are you still in ##c and what else < 1321913533 56118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with < 1321913534 959166 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nickchangse < 1321913537 165708 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha #haskell < 1321913544 92259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SUCH UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AAAAH < 1321913583 293716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: not in C < 1321913599 83257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: currently #esoteric #freelance and #haskell < 1321913603 993993 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ "were you: " ++ ((`replicateM` ['a'..'z']) =<< [1..]) < 1321913604 913283 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1321913605 243152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1321913605 779377 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :##c missed the party < 1321913607 76477 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1321913612 64187 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no < 1321913613 933685 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> var $ "were you: " ++ concat ((`replicateM` ['a'..'z']) =<< [1..]) < 1321913615 476042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : were you: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzaaabacadaeafagahaiajakalamanaoapaqarasa... < 1321913616 720087 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of them < 1321913619 247367 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1321913623 52474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : monqy: were you................................... "dagoth ur, mad god" <-- playing TES I see? < 1321913628 779711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I imagine kallisti is probably a bit more serious sounding than CakeProphet on #freelance < 1321913629 214138 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! < 1321913629 832302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1321913635 412269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1321913639 229806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that anyone actually uses #freelance, but occasionally they do, and occasionally I grab their moneyz < 1321913640 880799 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 help < 1321913653 825798 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is frelans any good < 1321913656 824954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1321913657 658066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: it won't get damaged… < 1321913664 193086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dagoth ur is morrowind isn't it? < 1321913664 335795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's probably your version of hell or something. < 1321913670 462046 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1321913676 498448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1321913679 107934 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the new case is all painted will the paint kill it with static??? < 1321913686 521240 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i see you have not been acquainted with our wonderful wiki friend dagoth ur < 1321913702 804164 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :, mad god < 1321913706 101035 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the only Dagoth Ur I know of is this one: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Dagoth_Ur_%28god%29 < 1321913706 893926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: people come on every few days asking if anyone knows PHP, Django, .NET, HTML, CSS, JS, insert-CMS-of-choice, insert-web-framework-of-choice < 1321913717 606029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and elliott did say mad god < 1321913718 824659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1321913728 295371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esme < 1321913735 139711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hi what is your skyrim character < 1321913735 185146 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Hashes < 1321913751 283232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh I see. Well that explains it. < 1321913751 377482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: did you ever see esme < 1321913753 530352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes you did < 1321913757 893118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: err what? Who are you? < 1321913759 225302 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i even heard esme < 1321913761 506234 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that Dagoth Ur! < 1321913762 190974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I made wrinklefucker the Breton warlock knight. < 1321913768 249622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is now level 8! yessss < 1321913775 439241 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, you have had the rite of passage. < 1321913779 866870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nord, mage/theif kind of mix. < 1321913783 292630 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I too was accused of being Dagoth Ur. < 1321913785 847519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thief* < 1321913787 66810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: heh, nord, IMAGINE THAT < 1321913813 209197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well I was planning to play something else later on, when some bugs have been fixed and check if dialogue differs < 1321913817 788542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on race < 1321913832 56641 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no spoilers thx < 1321913838 908981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: none really atm? < 1321913851 707218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: besides I suspect my save game is BADLY bugged. Nirnroot respawns. Surely that is wrong... < 1321913866 799696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they broke the lore badly in skyrim < 1321913870 43185 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I know there are things called Bretons, also warlocks and knights, also nirnroots? < 1321913877 140233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm greatly enjoying the heavy armor one-handed conjuration alteration mix. I find destruction kind of boring. < 1321913910 204161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but conjuring weapons and minions as I run around in platemail slashing things up is fun. < 1321913915 284945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: dude bretons are like a race, you get to select on character creation. warlock and knight would be more a description of skill set, since there are no actual classes < 1321913923 524662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: and nirnroots were in oblivion < 1321913930 532731 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal this is still SPOILERS < 1321913943 116974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1321913950 276607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: I'm NOT going to avoid oblivion spoilers. Besides no one will explain what nirnroot is in skyrim, because they seem to assume you know from oblivion :P < 1321913965 180059 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOILERS < 1321913965 468376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: just don't read the liners with spoilers then? < 1321913978 186942 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal surely even you can see why that's stupid < 1321913991 24371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: You wanted a reason to ignore me anyway I'm sure of... < 1321914010 448451 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, of course not; you're interesting in a pathological way. < 1321914013 369777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I found sneak attack "somewhat" overpowered < 1321914048 191693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I imagine the daedric armor (best heavy armor in the game) will be very fitting to my skillset since I'll be summoning dremora lords, stealing souls with conjured weapons, and whatnot < 1321914064 548706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bound weapons, at least in the early levels, are pretty overpowered as they're equivalent in quality to ebony weapons. < 1321914070 775732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so I've read. < 1321914084 717422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is daedric armour heavy or light? < 1321914088 639670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go for light armour < 1321914088 787607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavy. < 1321914093 195118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, no use to me then < 1321914121 376903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going for a kind of warrior-mage tank so the heavy armor combined with enchants and armor spells will be nice. < 1321914126 581158 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also heavy armor perks. < 1321914148 549881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a sneak with two single handled ebony swords (flawless quality) on a undead boss in a dungeon. Took the initial 12x hit + two normal hits to kill < 1321914156 980969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is kind of overpowered < 1321914173 241394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes probably. < 1321914181 638700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: and I heard you can get up to 30x backstab bonus with perks and the right armour! < 1321914187 360886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game definitely isn't difficult, probably my main complaint about it. < 1321914190 801747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is utterly absurd < 1321914199 871225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: try changing the difficulty slider < 1321914202 231750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose one could turn the difficult -- yes < 1321914204 206632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played on normal < 1321914212 375005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever they called that < 1321914236 190245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway sneak won't work on dragons obviously. They tend to be perched out of reach < 1321914247 531697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think I was level 38 when I last played yesterday < 1321914254 830655 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't decided if I want destruction or archery for ranged. I think as far as perks go I'll go with neither as I want to focus on heavy armor conjuration and 1H initially. < 1321914278 9467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but archery is pretty enjoyable. < 1321914288 737407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you kind of /need/ ranged to deal with dragons effectively. Unless you get a LOT of damage in during the brief periods they are on ground. < 1321914308 397282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got fairly high destruction, 73 or something I think < 1321914342 797546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well I believe magic resistance includes dragon fire. < 1321914344 514911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1321914348 476574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1321914357 667797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think it is a shout, so not sure how that works < 1321914364 484185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: besides there are frost dragons as well < 1321914372 281995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1321914377 780586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I think it's all magic right? < 1321914385 865849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I just try to be mobile and stay out of harms way < 1321914393 697752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing pretty well defensively with breton magic resistance + ward < 1321914398 666275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use amulet of talos to reduce time between my shouts < 1321914438 820936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like slow time or which is very useful against because he is the of < 1321914453 206664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well might not be he, could be she or it for all I know < 1321914464 343117 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1321914469 172741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the plan is to be be ridiculous in defense with heavy armor and alteration (dragonskin = 80% reduction of physical damage for 30 seconds) < 1321914483 111156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if you progressed enough into the main quest you will know what I talk about :P < 1321914484 55429 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know to what extent armor helps against dragons. < 1321914490 114049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm nearing the end of that < 1321914490 636058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt I have. < 1321914549 799163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: right, no eponymous stuff yet? < 1321914571 698101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, no, I think? < 1321914578 773151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway I think you need 100 in smithing to craft dragon armour? < 1321914584 938376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is heavy it just isn't worth it for me < 1321914592 487303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt dragon armour could be LIGHT armour < 1321914593 227129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :daedric armor = better than dragon heavy armor < 1321914595 301135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just wouldn't fit < 1321914595 791115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavier too < 1321914604 435822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dragon light armr is the best light armor < 1321914610 45028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I use thief guild quest armour mostly < 1321914611 600867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's a perk that makes equipped armor /weightless/ < 1321914614 351895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... yeah. < 1321914620 831027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes brotherhood armour < 1321914630 793772 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of that give 2x backstab bonus < 1321914644 996078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : also there's a perk that makes equipped armor /weightless/ <-- in heavy or light tree? < 1321914645 41381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell the main benefit of light armor is the 50% stamina regen perk, also the stealth benefits. < 1321914647 76135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both? < 1321914650 259917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: both < 1321914653 425368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1321914664 722164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm a stealthy mage who recently taken to backstabbing < 1321914692 113959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could probably get better armor by getting the mage armor alteration perk if you wanted. < 1321914703 325836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that yes < 1321914705 332142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that < 1321914706 574419 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, light armor works well too and has some pretty good mage gear associated with it. < 1321914724 703937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I enhanced the light magic armour from those quest lines. < 1321914733 450155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err smith enhanched that is < 1321914738 38921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not magic enhanced < 1321914749 130536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/enhanched/enhanced/ < 1321914767 527815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my character is probably going towards the path of most ridiculous defense you can possibly achieve. < 1321914769 811954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so which level are you? < 1321914772 635705 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :8. :) < 1321914775 720919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321914779 743816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even own the game. < 1321914779 909870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not playing much then < 1321914783 489413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from my 38 < 1321914797 28074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty easy to level from what I can tell. < 1321914807 485862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went from 29 to 38 over the weekend < 1321914815 201939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got bored at one point and just start conjuring flame atronachs and killing them and got about 3 levels. < 1321914821 721113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1321914842 479103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: just remember: there are still some leveled monsters. You wan't to put a lot into combat skills < 1321914851 316998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think dragons in particular are leveled < 1321914855 406294 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I have been able to tell < 1321914865 704333 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. well I've been focusing mostly on one-handed and conjuration < 1321914870 958881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are both offensive. < 1321914893 299055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise dragons at level 5 would not be as hard as dragons at level 38. Heck I think dragons are harder in the latter case. < 1321914903 692995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot wait to be able to summon /two/ dremora lords because one is already ridiculous enough. < 1321914907 663213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :requires more player skill < 1321914914 211747 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can what? < 1321914919 882774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never been one for conjuration < 1321914921 572728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the last perks in conjuration. < 1321914923 991492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1321914926 223746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to be able to summon two things. < 1321914937 881601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would LOVE to back stab a dragon though. < 1321914989 961071 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about retconjuration? < 1321915004 929036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway you will need to put some effort into finding shouts. Ask the greyberds about if they found any until they tell you that they haven't. There are still words to be found, but you need to do some quest line to get those. < 1321915009 733765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what? < 1321915020 795756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... that was terrible < 1321915046 310274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the last perk in the "bound weapons" line of conjuration makes bound weapons banish summoned and daedric enemies. < 1321915049 943877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: does this sound useful? < 1321915095 803880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait not daedric specifically < 1321915102 979427 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bound weapons will banish summoned creatures and turn raised ones" < 1321915103 629941 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: not really. I never had any issues with that since most summoned monsters I ran into so far have been elemental. Just use fireball for ice antewhatever < 1321915104 863367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1321915120 595738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or skeletons < 1321915123 916404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are super eason < 1321915125 467905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy* < 1321915128 534023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a weird typo < 1321915133 879620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the main benefit would be summoned daedric things. < 1321915150 547615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have yet to see that < 1321915158 320872 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-15.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: nites < 1321915161 349934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides enemies seem kind of rubbish in their wards < 1321915178 166641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway I find sneaking much more enjoyable actually < 1321915190 723869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad that the custom spell making of oblivion is gone < 1321915207 133405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% chameleon. What a nice spell to make... < 1321915210 864096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they removed /many/ spells from Oblivion to Skyrim < 1321915217 931154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: AND the custom spell making < 1321915219 230454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1321915228 849483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I had 100 in illusion in oblivion < 1321915230 890742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the plus side enchanted weapons are much better. < 1321915236 238119 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take it to #esoteric-skyrim please. < 1321915238 833978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but I prefer being a make < 1321915240 685321 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mage* < 1321915247 70303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: stfu and ignore this discussion? < 1321915253 501900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: no one else is talking anyway < 1321915284 954102 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, the same applied with Minecraft chat. < 1321915291 980563 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it should go in #esoteric-minecraft because that is all about non-minecraft. Such as dwarf fortress < 1321915304 2052 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :by logic all game discussion should go there < 1321915308 609375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I dunno I think it could possibly be useful. < 1321915314 542471 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the banishing perk < 1321915320 832786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you use bound weapons, which I do. < 1321915324 879729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1321915342 454855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah I'm not into conjuration in any game really. < 1321915346 568828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you get awesome enchanted weapons the main benefit of bound weapons will be the perk that casts soul trap on anything you hit with bound weapons. < 1321915364 698550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there are enchanted weapons that do this as well. < 1321915378 676795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I enjoyed the stealth elements of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. So there we go. Skyrim with cover system should be interesting < 1321915389 653242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure someone will mod that eventually < 1321915404 567844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1321915416 35356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think they did make stealth a little more interesting than in Oblivion < 1321915421 897224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :more challenging anyway. < 1321915430 629168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again, I try to sneak around in clunky heavy armor... < 1321915439 94023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: slightly yes. Doing away with chameleon made it harder... < 1321915453 153068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's muffle and invisibility which is probably very helpful. < 1321915458 332962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm glad they dropped the major/minor skill stuff < 1321915471 486070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I think the proper way to do leveled monsters is NOT from your level < 1321915477 585808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather it should compute a combat score < 1321915491 65442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on offensive skills and also what type of armour you have < 1321915496 148203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: especially considering many people just do smithing shit for a while to build levels. < 1321915499 817924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and health of course < 1321915515 180952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the proper way should be by counting. So that if you do too much kill same kind it is too difficult. ADOM does that but I think ADOM does it not quite enough < 1321915516 952213 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is, leveling up max in smithing at an early stage should not make the game unplayable < 1321915527 429225 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1321915559 976331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on the plus side, you'll have badass weapons. :P < 1321915577 858891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the score would take that into account, based on what weapons you actually have < 1321915595 859004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly I like static levels for things. < 1321915606 577053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :level scaling makes the progression of an RPG entirely pointless. < 1321915613 675522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same goes for enchanting, or speech. Probably different type of situations should use different equations. I mean pick-pocket should obviously be taken into account in some situations, but not other ones. < 1321915628 783769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: certainly, static levels should also exist < 1321915637 731463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but you really really need leveled dragons for example < 1321915643 169732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1321915662 912077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can pretty much visit them in any order, due to the game being, pretty much the sandbox of RPGs < 1321915663 612066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe for dragons that just chill in their gave with hoards of gold < 1321915668 457259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :harder dragons could have better loot. < 1321915671 723077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah that comma was in the wrong place < 1321915683 304677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy games that require you to use a little discretion. < 1321915684 556811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "gave"? < 1321915688 583039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :grave? < 1321915690 654368 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cave... < 1321915693 899843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1321915695 504670 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote I like category theory because when you get over how damn weird it is it's still weird. < 1321915698 46290 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :732) I like category theory because when you get over how damn weird it is it's still weird. < 1321915707 294672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: pretty sure there are no such dragons in skyrim < 1321915713 293743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they like to guard words though < 1321915714 47858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: totally should be < 1321915724 77556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: dragons that shapeshift into humans and have great influence over humanity. < 1321915727 136208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, think about it. < 1321915735 267985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think it is better if they /don't/ conform to the stereotype < 1321915745 56721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're a dragon, you probably live a long time. You might become interesting in human affairs, and obtaining vast wealth and influence. < 1321915756 832697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably also magical, and you have infinite time to learn how to do things like shapeshift. < 1321915764 610914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh and I have to say becoming friends with the orc settlements was really useful. Some nice stuff to shop there. < 1321915775 22085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bad person < 1321915789 967792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Unless you are orc you need to complete a fetch quest to be allowed in. < 1321915791 682163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what? < 1321915827 144366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not really spoiling anything. I'm not saying anything like "it was X who did it in the Y's guild side quest line" or something like that < 1321915835 386304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :friend with orc = bad person < 1321915853 139805 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: come on you can play an orc. And they are not tolkin style orcs really < 1321915853 609087 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you sure? < 1321915860 541663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :one mistake Skyrim made: dwarven quality weapons are not the best in the game. < 1321915869 252206 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how is that bad? < 1321915871 394359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is dwarf not a playable race if there are dwarven weapons. < 1321915876 992354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because dorfs make the best weapons. < 1321915891 829829 :Guest14567!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr NICK :Slereah < 1321915900 978050 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dwarven" just means "made from dwemer metal", not "made by the ancient dwarves" < 1321915906 864894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: uh lore. See Morrowind why dwarfs died out/disappeared from our plane/disintegrated. < 1321915911 231190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about yotuhful dwarves < 1321915916 840817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ytouhytful < 1321915918 961907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoothufl < 1321915925 101764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: pretty sure there is in-game literature about it to... < 1321915926 296683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :too* < 1321915928 268885 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe just they don't want playable dwarf in that game. < 1321915934 977032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it better than "cats of skyrim" < 1321915937 738746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1321915939 797509 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are reasons. It is complex lore. < 1321915942 566000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sorry elder scrolls lore is boring. < 1321915959 409942 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever game, they put restriction... such as, lighting things on fire is not allowed, or whatever. < 1321915979 838328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well basically they tried to become gods to the whole race was wiped out, save for one guy who happened to be at another plane when it happened. He shows up in Morrowind. < 1321915981 521958 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume < 1321915986 967396 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not not allowed, just not implemented < 1321915993 894465 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap id id (ap id id) < 1321915994 140459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue. < 1321916001 369292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I haven't played enough Morrowind to get there, but that is what I understood from in-game books and the wiki. < 1321916012 28684 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl-resume < 1321916027 284788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `pl' failed with: thread killed < 1321916038 677293 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Then it means, for nearly any computer game, a lot of things are "just not implemented" < 1321916047 616626 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo: you sound surprised < 1321916048 722944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway I find Elder scrolls lore quite exiting. < 1321916061 638609 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I definitely think the character skill system is improved, especially making it balanced so that every skill is a viable and useful for something. < 1321916063 86490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like jumping to -1 < 1321916072 759277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: YOU ENDED IT < 1321916083 611897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like archery has some neat perk that make an archer playstyle more interesting. < 1321916086 815518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*perks < 1321916100 642620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hit the key left of 1 (§ on my keyboard), I'm sure you can jump to -1 then. < 1321916102 743980 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I am not surprised. It is as expected. < 1321916108 88977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: that brings up the console) < 1321916128 587404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you /will/ need it, there are /so/ many ways to get stuck in the terrain) < 1321916139 800375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for detailed world simulator see: dwarf fortress < 1321916161 185885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: btw skyrim is larger than it seems, as you will find out when proceeding with the main quest. Ever played Shivering Isles expansion for oblivion? < 1321916170 630051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep < 1321916173 848289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not going to open the console. < 1321916174 816137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't show up. But something just as graphically amazing does < 1321916196 916882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you are going to reload an earlier save if you get stuck between a mill and a water wheel? < 1321916201 466171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened to me < 1321916206 66909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I get to replay the game < 1321916210 113379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1321916213 250727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuure < 1321916214 41359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: convince bay12 to give you source code access. challenge: give dorf fortress a 3D graphical frontend. < 1321916214 131068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who keeps a backlog of saves is a poop < 1321916239 410106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you just mortally offended elliott < 1321916243 421369 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I have once played dwarf fortress; a lot of character seem not playable, there seem a few other optionss missing too, and it runs very slowly. But I can see by looking at the files that comes with it that it implements a very large number of things. But even trying to do that, someone forgets something (that is for many games they try to put everything, they will always do so) < 1321916244 46603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1321916261 991268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: dwarf fortress require a high end CPU < 1321916265 368817 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc you don't ahve < 1321916266 506330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :have* < 1321916287 472564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it you who had like 224 MB RAM? < 1321916292 658597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is absurdly small < 1321916297 453916 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :His games must implement everything and run fast, of course. < 1321916313 920478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1321916341 337155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I am not saying it must. I am just saying that even if they are supposed to, they don't. < 1321916358 938784 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is different game, and depending on the game is supposed to be different. That is why you can make up a different game. < 1321916379 384951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at the other end of that spectrum... i7, sandy bridge, 4 cores, 3.4 GHz, 16 GB RAM (I wouldn't call those specs absurd, upper end yes, but not absurd. I know someone with dual xeon i7 quads and 32 GB RAM, that is absurd for a desktop!) < 1321916415 35855 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tip: most games run just as well on an i3 as an i7 < 1321916423 466569 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I do other stuff than game. < 1321916426 150127 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: That's why I use an i1. < 1321916446 166326 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is the master of optimization < 1321916460 544368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I do actually use this system to the fullest. I do HDR panorama photography. That requires a /lot/ of processing power to merge. < 1321916469 523110 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :both RAM and CPU < 1321916481 179894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat on GPU too, due to offloading some computations to it < 1321916491 518055 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most game developers are not masters of optimization. < 1321916525 578500 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1321916530 293638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: there is that too. I can barely play Witcher 2 on ultra. I prefer to play it on ultra minus super sampling < 1321916541 200722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the xbawks devs use C# and XNA which is actually not good. < 1321916543 60465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :skyrim I can play on ultra as long as I don't run fraps < 1321916556 691395 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I offload computations to the BPU. < 1321916566 134823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: B for bullshit? < 1321916576 547386 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it works for simpler games. Just not for the really high end ones. < 1321916589 691137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mean, Magicka and Bastion both use XNA. They work just fine. < 1321916597 972652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bastion is an awesome game btw. < 1321916604 647613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: magicka is written in XNA and subsequently cannot run on my laptop. < 1321916604 692986 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It took me about seven tries to find a letter that you could put in front of "PU" without it being an existing acronym ending in "processing unit". :-( < 1321916610 475323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: heh. < 1321916622 615137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: heh < 1321916631 321376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :QPU < 1321916639 392889 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Taken. < 1321916643 194148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what < 1321916643 547914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: wait, I can only thing of CPU, GPU, FPU. How can that take seven tries? < 1321916647 564347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meanwhile: I can play WoW, Starcraft II, and Borderlands. < 1321916648 12445 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :9pu < 1321916648 105826 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum? < 1321916652 77283 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Plugin `pl' failed with: thread killed <-- AWW < 1321916652 136756 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pu < 1321916652 774121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1321916657 774700 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QPU < 1321916669 232415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess was right < 1321916684 13788 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess was the same as your guess < 1321916685 322984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: which other ones were taken? < 1321916686 853286 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1321916690 915036 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that page has no references. < 1321916695 156861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: monqy transitivity of is yes! < 1321916696 177814 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see. < 1321916712 786045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what? < 1321916717 359700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1321916721 829267 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: grammar fail? < 1321916725 857609 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1321916734 945099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay maybe < 1321916737 56875 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPU GPU QPU APU PPU VPU SPU FPU NPU TPU < 1321916737 330517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well I couldn't parse it, but then English is not my native language. < 1321916739 186268 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least. < 1321916741 8614 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where grammar fails, monqy succeeds < 1321916742 418624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: monqy: transitivity of is, yes! < 1321916743 467731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well APU I know what it is < 1321916749 142722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not related to computing < 1321916751 997384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1321916755 139696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is that APU too < 1321916757 393881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arithmetics < 1321916770 750146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is Auxiliary Power Unit as well < 1321916776 513323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: monqy: transitivity of "is", yes! < 1321916777 944082 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that better? < 1321916781 485686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hm okay < 1321916792 378586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what is the context for it? < 1321916800 590803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:04 < monqy> my guess was the same as your guess < 1321916808 706129 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :VPU would be vector I guess < 1321916819 120548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: your guess was correct, THEREFORE < 1321916820 7514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1321916823 775755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1321916831 726376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1321916842 179281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so much more clevre now that I've explained it in detail. < 1321916860 709360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay CPU, GPU, APU, FPU I know. VPU and QPU I could guess at. That leaves PPU SPU NPU and TPU < 1321916872 293845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :TPU probably some trusted execution crap < 1321916879 192104 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :66pu < 1321916885 352085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nope < 1321916887 904769 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Those aren't all! < 1321916889 543332 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellopu < 1321916892 498486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :time processor unit? < 1321916899 265646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqypu < 1321916909 855372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synergistic Processing Unit in the Sony-IBM-Toshiba cell microprocessor <-- heh? < 1321916915 934497 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMLPU < 1321916916 778511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Cell < 1321916916 823682 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :☃pu < 1321916919 135469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1321916924 956584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you are kidding... < 1321916930 619960 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Kind of. < 1321916933 905720 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not called by that name. < 1321916936 710278 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :HARDWARE ACCELERATED XML < 1321916943 633048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there can't be hardware accelerated XML < 1321916946 510060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe that < 1321916947 957886 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the IBM zSeries, i I recall correctly, has support for a hardware XML coprocessor. < 1321916960 877531 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a regular CPU that they turn on in such a way that it only suports XML. < 1321916964 542833 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you pay less than for a full CPU. < 1321916964 778449 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Network Processing Unit" <-- okaaay < 1321916977 149318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processor Processing Unit < 1321916983 608827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_processing_unit <- hm okay < 1321916989 994164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nope, see link I just game < 1321916992 217637 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gave* < 1321916992 263061 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no my is better < 1321916992 866788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1321916998 14904 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/hardware/features/zaap/ < 1321917015 802163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's a regular CPU that they turn on in such a way that it only suports XML. < 1321917015 931099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : And you pay less than for a full CPU. < 1321917019 320875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crap? < 1321917054 467017 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they can bin the ones with broken FPUs, perhaps < 1321917063 506181 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Apparently it does Java too. < 1321917065 655637 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML doesn't need FDIV < 1321917067 776175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1321917076 584042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: java does < 1321917080 560578 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1321917081 634332 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1321917092 184546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: besides I doubt they are x86 < 1321917094 624216 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the point is just to get you to pay more money. < 1321917129 928999 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM has traditionally offered such dubious "features" on their higher-end stuff. < 1321917144 61013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1321917166 440267 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, their mainframes have at various points offered upgrades up to brand-new CPUs by toggling the right switch. < 1321917175 811170 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1321917187 136732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: so they actually had the better CPU in it all along < 1321917191 992708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that be cost effective? < 1321917201 645026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a CPU is expensive < 1321917207 202212 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you charge significantly over cost anyways. :) < 1321917212 690089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1321917233 457464 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the mainframe market, IBM has been the sole competitor for several decades. < 1321917235 163679 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: but surely it will make the customers disillusioned... < 1321917240 444861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: upleinian groopt < 1321917247 636767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes these will continue to get more ridiculous) < 1321917254 836966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: wtf was that? < 1321917257 198833 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-213-101.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The customer base still uses COBOL. < 1321917266 175044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hm. < 1321917271 549678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Kleinian group < 1321917277 653547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in updoot form < 1321917278 53354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: insert cobol on cogs link here < 1321917286 423689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no clue what updoot is < 1321917298 873097 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you're delayed < 1321917355 201191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, night → < 1321917411 862606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: my onslaught will be unpredictable and tantalizing. < 1321917424 393397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will come after actual updates or at my whim. < 1321917432 476124 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-244-80.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1321917468 433955 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make the computer game too, including with MegaZeux. Obviously it doesn't do absolutely everything but there are many things can be unusually and is different from other computer game. < 1321917474 372755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will then slowly begin to question your sanity and distrust all human beings and instead regard them as scoundrels. < 1321917504 364773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this is the second phase, where I reveal my dastardly plan! ah ha ha ah ha ha. < 1321917618 543701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also: updoast of groot britain. < 1321918151 22910 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1321918151 130975 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1321918155 404601 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321918165 371291 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1321918165 416726 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-183.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1321918165 416848 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1321918290 778035 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1321918297 615177 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1321918570 276548 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1321918572 388809 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1321918610 99639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :man Egyptians have this protest shit figured out. < 1321918625 539069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they throw the tear gas grenades back at the police. < 1321918823 827900 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occupy could learn a thing or two. < 1321919006 540672 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti arfasdfjhadate < 1321919046 758864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1321919058 13967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdkasld < 1321919063 343946 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :arhfpsupdart < 1321919079 167770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do rocrupt ur ensentes < 1321919137 994541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 25 < 1321919140 905573 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quel vinflumicturguerstrighaleakinvar azed bale ossars hoontarinatur harippry tia nintited fidahur asic aequolle lia finfored ronera last arplang grautlmen vics sly lee scham pauryn preting supeisperox < 1321919180 226339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vinflumicturguerstrighaleakinvar < 1321919201 701407 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :harippry is good though < 1321919209 328220 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aequolle too < 1321919220 897224 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grautlmen < 1321919281 718758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow pepper hot < 1321919294 61850 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm pain tastes good. < 1321919357 625883 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grautlmen sounds like something the TF2 spy might say < 1321919541 820055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reversible graph language sounds like a large memory leak. < 1321919809 124816 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not reversible enough, then < 1321919826 559335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm not sure that it will be a "graph language" but its memory layout will be represented by a graph. < 1321919976 337198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure what you mean. :P