00:03:14 <oerjan> kallisti: bondevik and stoltenberg?  i guess it's been about that long.  bondevik is retired though, so it's not likely to repeat
00:03:44 <oerjan> erna solberg is the most likely conservative side candidate at the moment
00:09:03 <oerjan> for stoltenberg it's logical, he's the leader of norway's largest party
00:09:54 <oerjan> bondevik on the other hand was leader of a small one, he just had unusual abilities to get much of the right wing side to cooperate
00:12:08 <kallisti> ah
00:14:14 <kallisti> is Norwegian politics good?
00:14:18 <kallisti> is stoltenberg good?
00:14:38 <oerjan> also, at the time it looks like the right wing are likely to take over next election.  still two years until that, though
00:14:54 <oerjan> assuming they can find _some_ way to agree :P
00:16:31 <oerjan> (the progressive party is fairly unpopular with the two smallest right wing parties, although they seem to have realized they're unlikely to get into government again without them)
00:18:24 <oerjan> well "good"?  it's rather peaceful.
00:19:17 <oerjan> stoltenberg is somewhat "technocratic", he's a social economist
00:21:57 <kallisti> good good
00:22:01 <kallisti> all hail technocratic order
00:23:24 <kallisti> American politics kind of works like this: AAAAAAAAAAAHRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRHHHHHRRRRHHHHGGGGGUUURGLEAAAAAARGHHHHAHAHHHARHARHRRHHARHARAKGAKRKAG
00:23:34 <oerjan> ic
00:25:44 <kallisti> yes
00:25:52 <kallisti> you may be surpirsed to learn this
00:25:59 <kallisti> but it is essentially to understanding what's going on.
00:26:09 <oerjan> even the progressive party isn't much that way in norway any longer
00:26:23 <oerjan> (they're trying to appear responsible so they can get into government)
00:26:28 <kallisti> that's because Norway's economy is good.
00:26:37 <kallisti> (???)
00:26:45 <oerjan> yeah i'm sure that helps
00:27:04 <kallisti> though even when the economy is good in the US it's AAAAAAARGGHHHHHGURGLE
00:27:14 <kallisti> lots of loud angry people.
00:27:15 <oerjan> we're still worried about everyone south of us collapsing, though.  bad for exports.
00:27:24 <kallisti> ah yes.
00:27:37 <kallisti> just export to different places yes. :P
00:28:11 <oerjan> well it doesn't help that china _still_ doesn't want to talk to us after last year's nobel prize
00:28:33 <kallisti> hahahahahahaha
00:29:13 <kallisti> it must be complicated being the prize-giving country.
00:29:24 <kallisti> who do you give the prizes too? complex question.
00:29:47 <oerjan> yeah.  maybe if sweden could give the literature prize to them next year, it'll take some heat off us
00:30:06 <oerjan> or maybe they'll just give up on scandinavia overall
00:30:22 <kallisti> also wait what are they mad about?
00:30:46 <oerjan> about the peace prize going to a chinese dissisent who was at the time in _jail_...
00:30:50 <oerjan> *dissident
00:31:21 <kallisti> oh right
00:31:27 <kallisti> I forgot about that.
00:32:12 <oerjan> i heard there was a little optimism though, apparently a norwegian and chinese minister got seated together recently for lunch/dinner at some conference, iirc
00:32:22 <oerjan> and actually talked
00:32:25 <kallisti> "sheesh Nobel people let us be a communist police state if we want to"
00:32:39 <kallisti> oh good
00:33:07 <kallisti> "hey China, we're sorry you're bad at human rights and we awarded the guy that you wanted to keep quiet for being so awesome."
00:34:10 <kallisti> (this is obvious how the conversation went)
00:34:14 <kallisti> +ly
00:35:59 <oerjan> i read that the chinese had added stupid restrictions so that norwegian salmon, which previously could get from norway to chinese restaurants in just a day or two, now takes 8 days
00:36:13 <kallisti> looool
00:36:22 <kallisti> now all the salmon tastes bad in China.
00:36:26 <oerjan> yeah
00:37:25 <kallisti> some of the physics and chemistry prizes are more impressive some years than others.
00:37:34 <oerjan> you don't say
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00:37:43 <kallisti> like the 2009 one is kind of boring for physics
00:38:01 <kallisti> and supernovae aren't really that awesome but quasicrystals FUCK YEAH THAT'S LIKE NEW SHIT
00:38:47 <oerjan> erm the supernovae were awesome, they showed that the universe is _accelerating_
00:39:13 <kallisti> nah that's boring. QUADICRYSTALS
00:39:16 <kallisti> *S
00:39:22 <oerjan> when all intuition about gravity as well as previous theories say it should be slowing down
00:39:54 <kallisti> ah that's good
00:40:02 <kallisti> I like when scientists use intuition and are wrong. :>
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00:40:58 <kallisti>  In 1964 Jean-Paul Sartre was awarded the Literature Prize but refused, stating, "A writer must refuse to allow himself to be transformed into an institution, even if it takes place in the most honourable form."
00:41:02 <kallisti> what a dick.
00:41:30 <kallisti> existential dick.
00:42:37 <oerjan> it _has_ been said that getting the literature prize is bad for your future writing, though
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00:44:16 <kallisti> hmmm in what way?
00:44:32 <kallisti> as in
00:44:39 <kallisti> bad for your writing style
00:44:42 <kallisti> or bad for your popularity?
00:45:25 <oerjan> bad for your writing style, i think
00:51:02 <kallisti> they should have other categories.
00:51:05 <kallisti> like mathematics!
00:52:24 <kallisti> journalism would be a good category.
00:53:39 <oerjan> well, norway tried to make something like that with the abel prize.
01:02:24 <kallisti> I'm kind of confused about Barack Obama and the Nobel Peace Prize
01:02:34 <kallisti> did he get it because... he wasn't George Bush?
01:03:06 <oerjan> and black.
01:03:53 <kallisti> and tolerant of Muslims I guess?
01:03:56 <kallisti> huh, okay
01:04:01 <kallisti> but he didn't really do anything.
01:04:23 <kallisti> he just wins an award for existing and becoming US president. Congratulations!
01:04:28 <oerjan> you do realize norwegians were just as puzzled as americans about it, right? :P
01:05:39 <oerjan> it may just be a result of Thorbjørn Jagland's (nobel committee leader, former prime minister) natural disaster attracting capability
01:05:57 <kallisti> ah okay.
01:06:04 <kallisti> it's that weird o in his name probably.
01:06:17 <kallisti> it's like a mystic spell.
01:06:27 <kallisti> ancient nordic pagan magic.
01:06:41 <oerjan> see: how he lost his prime ministership; last year's prize
01:06:59 <kallisti> maybe he just likes controversial prizes.
01:07:07 <oerjan> maybe.
01:07:10 <kallisti> also maybe much wasn't going on in Peace in 2009?
01:07:48 <oerjan> hm i guess i've forgotten if there was anything
01:09:07 <kallisti> Several Nobel Laureates have commented: Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev (winner 1990), gave his congratulations,[55] Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus, (co-winner 2006 prize), said the committee's award was "an endorsement of [Obama] and the direction he is taking."
01:09:21 <kallisti> so yeah they just like him for existing and not being a shitty US president.
01:10:17 <kallisti> good job Obama! you've changed public relations across the world by not being George Bush.
01:11:07 <kallisti> In Europe, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the award would reinforce Obama's determination to work for justice and peace. He added that the award "finally confirms the return of America in the hearts of all the peoples of the world"
01:11:12 <kallisti> America!! Fuck yeah!!
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01:12:33 <kallisti> Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said the decision was ridiculous, saying, "The Nobel prize for peace? Obama should have won the 'Nobel Prize for escalating violence and killing civilians.'"
01:12:37 <kallisti> ha. ha. ha. the irony.
01:13:46 <oerjan> on the plus side, afaict jagland hasn't actually managed to ruin the council of europe yet.  in fact russia even ratified the recent reforms...
01:17:08 <kallisti> help I am not know Eurolitics
01:18:11 <oerjan> council of europe is an organization which has most european countries as members;  it's most important part is the european court of human rights which upholds the european human rights convention
01:18:16 <kallisti> wtf why is Japan a candidate for membership of the council of Europe?
01:18:20 <oerjan> *its
01:18:24 <kallisti> or is it like... candidate to be observer?
01:18:25 <oerjan> it is?
01:19:01 <kallisti> oh
01:19:01 <kallisti> nevermind
01:19:04 <kallisti> I'm colorblind
01:19:15 <kallisti> I thought it was red on the map but it's orange so it's an observerer.
01:20:35 <kallisti> OH HO LETS SEE WHAT XKCD SUCKS HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE NEW XKCD
01:20:38 <kallisti> oh, nothing yet.
01:22:48 <kallisti> also wtf the anthem for the Council of Europe is Ode to Joy?
01:23:13 <kallisti> come on. that's the worst thing ever.
01:23:45 * oerjan swats kallisti -----###
01:23:47 <oerjan> IS NOT
01:24:05 <kallisti> no it's bad.
01:24:10 <kallisti> Beethoven had better stuff.
01:24:24 * oerjan hits kallisti with the saucepan ===\__/
01:24:30 <tswett> "This set is among the smallest sets ever found."
01:24:42 <tswett> Rather silly when taken out of context.
01:24:50 <kallisti> DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN /DUN/.. DUNDUN
01:24:52 <tswett> "Hey guys!  We just discovered a set that has TWO ELEMENTS!"
01:24:56 <kallisti> -- Ode to Joy
01:25:03 <tswett> "Holy shit!  Only two?  How does it work?"
01:26:43 <kallisti> oerjan: it's mostly just quarter notes and it's in the completely lame key of D major
01:26:50 <kallisti> also: I had to play it a lot in middle school band so now I hate it.
01:28:05 <oerjan> ah childhood abuse, i understand now.
01:28:08 <kallisti> I guess it's not bad with a choir
01:28:14 <kallisti> the POWER OF THE  HUMAN VOICE
01:28:20 <kallisti> kind of makes it a more moving piece
01:29:46 <kallisti> and it's all triumphant and grand
01:30:05 <kallisti> "FUCK YEAH JOY"
01:30:38 <kallisti> *confetti*  *angels*
01:31:07 <kallisti> -- Ode to Joy
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01:34:31 <kallisti> mmm pumpkin pie
01:34:57 <pikhq> "Ode to Joy" is just a selection of a part of a symphony, dunno why it's played so much.
01:35:22 <pikhq> Also, *technically* any country could join the Council of Europe.
01:35:30 <pikhq> If the Council of Europe deems a country European, it is.
01:35:36 <kallisti> Zimbabwe
01:35:48 <pikhq> Hypothetically? Yes.
01:36:15 <kallisti> russia is kind of European
01:36:21 <kallisti> culturally
01:36:35 <pikhq> The majority of the population of Russia is in Europe.
01:37:19 <kallisti> right
01:37:36 <kallisti> Russia is the largest country in the world, covering more than one eighth of the Earth's inhabited land area.
01:37:39 <kallisti> that's so insane.
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01:49:01 <Gregor> <tswett> "Holy shit!  Only two?  How does it work?" // just - like - magnets
01:49:32 <tswett> Gregor: so it's Magic Got It?
01:49:33 <oerjan> kallisti: and it used to be even larger...
01:50:28 <oerjan> magic nets, obviously
01:51:18 <kallisti> I think the EU is cheating.
01:51:25 * oerjan realizes that nearly half his life is _after_ the soviet union dissolved
01:51:33 <kallisti> by having a larger GDP when it's not really a country.
01:52:03 <kallisti> cheaters
01:52:34 <oerjan> "With an area of 22,402,200 square kilometres (8,649,500 sq mi), the Soviet Union was the world's largest state. Covering a sixth of the Earth's land surface, its size was comparable to that of North America."
01:56:51 <kallisti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EU_belief_in_God.svg
01:56:52 <kallisti> compare to
01:57:03 <kallisti> A 2008 survey of 1,000 people concluded that, based on their stated beliefs rather than their religious identification, 70% of Americans believe in a personal God, roughly 12% of Americans are atheist or agnostic, and another 12% are deistic (believing in a higher power/non-personal God, but no personal God).
01:57:25 <kallisti> ...1000 isn't a very large population size
01:57:50 * shachaf believes in an impersonal, mass-produced god.
01:58:48 <kallisti> Gallup International indicates that 41%[56] of American citizens report they regularly attend religious services, compared to 15% of French citizens, 10% of UK citizens,[57] and 7.5% of Australian citizens.
01:58:53 <kallisti> GODLESS EUROPEANS
01:59:01 <kallisti> NO VALUES.
02:00:14 <oerjan> australians are not european.  just saying.
02:00:31 <kallisti> I wasn't talking about them
02:00:41 <kallisti> BUT THEY TOO ARE GODLESS
02:00:43 <kallisti> EVEN MORE SO
02:00:45 <kallisti> SHAMEFUL
02:01:14 <kallisti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Church_or_synagogue_attendance_by_state_GFDL.svg
02:01:29 <kallisti> I live in the orange thing inside that big patch of red.
02:01:32 <kallisti> red for danger.
02:01:38 <oerjan> well the australians are probably substituting with sacred activities such as beach surfing and bbq
02:03:03 <shachaf> Germany: Putting the Gödel back into Godless Europeans.
02:04:45 <oerjan> and of course crocodile wrestling
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03:04:21 <Gregor> NetBSD: Still installing.
03:27:20 <quintopia> anyone here know the TeX equivalent of <blockquote>?
03:27:39 <quintopia> i know i used to know this
03:28:11 <oerjan> \begin{quote} or was that just for literate haskell...
03:28:29 <oerjan> oh, that was code
03:28:31 <oerjan> iirc
03:29:09 <oerjan> (inb4 zzo: that's latex, not tex)
03:29:16 <quintopia> zzo is not here
03:29:24 <oerjan> whew
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04:34:06 <Gregor> NETBSD: STILL BLOODY INSTALLING
04:34:53 <oerjan> a net drain on resources
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05:19:33 <kallisti> http://horrorchan.com/post/8846627981/chip-chan
05:19:38 <kallisti> this is so fucking weird and sad.
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06:36:25 <kallisti> @tell elliott here's Gravity Well but I can't get it to work via Wine http://www.tucows.com/preview/289104
06:36:25 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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06:54:54 <fizzie> The 'quote' environment does indent a bit, on both sides.
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08:14:53 * Sgeo learns that monqy likes Crawl
08:16:18 <Vorpal> hi
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08:22:15 <monqy> Sgeo: no
08:22:20 <monqy> Sgeo: haven't you learned: I don't
08:22:23 <monqy> Sgeo: I just hang out there
08:22:58 <monqy> Sgeo: I don't actually play crawl. it's kind of like how ais hangs out in ##crawl-dev and I don't think he plays crawl either??
08:23:55 <monqy> so it's less that I like crawl and more that I like ##crawl
08:24:00 <oerjan> ...in which we learn that no one actually plays crawl any longer, they just stay because of the nice community
08:24:23 <monqy> for some value of nice
08:24:49 <oerjan> well we cannot expect #esoteric standards, of course
08:25:01 <monqy> naturally
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08:27:51 <shachaf> Does anyone here do anything with esoteric languages?
08:27:58 <monqy> whats that
08:27:58 * shachaf doesn't even pretend to.
08:28:28 <oerjan> it happens
08:29:00 <oerjan> elliott is still trying to improve his funge98 in haskell interpreter
08:29:35 <shachaf> zomg $ tr '12345678' '+-<>[],.' | bf
08:29:40 * shachaf invents new esolang.
08:30:07 <oerjan> you're in luck, Phantom_Hoover isn't here
08:30:22 <oerjan> you may still have a slight chance of surviving
08:31:28 <kallisti> shachaf: I've currently got two ideas for esoteric programming languages and one sort-of-but-not-very-esoteric language with a partially written spec.
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08:31:57 <shachaf> oerjan: But look at my innovative syntax!
08:32:31 <kallisti> shachaf: also is that the fabled hasksh
08:32:38 <kallisti> or hask--sh!
08:32:43 <oerjan> bah, it's even context-free, how innovative is that
08:32:46 <kallisti> in formal contexts
08:32:48 <kallisti> such as weddings
08:32:56 <monqy> hask sh wedding
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08:33:07 <shachaf> kallisti: No, i's regularsh.
08:33:26 <kallisti> hmmm ah
08:33:37 <kallisti> the only thing that was throwing me off was the standalone $
08:34:10 <monqy> zomg $ must be the propmt
08:34:15 <kallisti> ah
08:34:47 <kallisti> wow I sure am lazy!
08:34:56 <monqy> oh no
08:34:59 <shachaf> monqy: $ is the prompt, "zomg" is an exclamation.
08:35:07 <monqy> good
08:35:14 <monqy> because zomg $ would be a bad prompte
08:37:00 <kallisti> monqy: you zen master programmer yet?
08:37:03 <kallisti> that you?
08:37:04 <kallisti> ???
08:37:07 <kallisti> >
08:37:08 <monqy> that me?
08:37:11 <kallisti> ye
08:37:15 <monqy> <
08:37:23 <kallisti> ,ye
08:37:30 <monqy> q
08:37:38 <monqy> what is zen master programmer
08:37:49 * kallisti 
08:37:59 <Vorpal> speaking of prompts: do you use coloured or monochrome prompts?
08:38:19 <monqy> monochromme
08:38:27 <Vorpal> personally I use a coloured prompt, because it easily stands out in the scrollback.
08:38:39 <Vorpal> PS1="\[\033[01;32m\]\u@\h\[\033[01;34m\] \w \$\[\033[00m\] "
08:38:44 <monqy> maybe I'd like a colored prompt, but i really don't care enough to do one
08:38:52 <Vorpal> well there you have one
08:38:55 <shachaf> PS1='C:\>'
08:39:00 <Vorpal> actually do it with single quotes
08:39:04 <kallisti> Vorpal: is it rainbow prompt?
08:39:20 <monqy> my simple prompte: PS1='[\u@\h \w]\$ '
08:39:21 <kallisti> I don't speak ANSI very well
08:39:23 <Vorpal> kallisti: nah, it is just green for user@host then blue for path and the $
08:39:30 <Vorpal> I use a red prompt for root
08:39:47 <Vorpal> which is just hostname in red then path and $ in blue
08:39:50 <kallisti> echo $PS1
08:39:51 <kallisti> \[\e]0;\u@\h: \w\a\]${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\u@\h:\w\$
08:39:54 <kallisti> default Ubuntu prompt
08:39:58 <monqy> crazy
08:40:09 <Vorpal> export PS1="\[\033[01;31m\]\h\[\033[01;34m\] \w \$\[\033[00m\] " is from root's .bashrc
08:40:52 <kallisti> I think it's time
08:40:55 <kallisti> to smoke the hookah
08:40:57 <kallisti> with the stuff
08:40:59 <kallisti> that I bought
08:41:04 <kallisti> yes
08:41:06 <kallisti> >)
08:41:12 <Vorpal> btw if behaviour of ! in bash ever annoyed you, add "set +H" (without quotes) to your .bashrc
08:41:30 <Vorpal> it turns off the crazy behaviour of !
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08:42:36 <kallisti> the brand is Moassel Ayam Zaman and the flavor is called 1001 Nights
08:42:43 <kallisti> it's supposed to be more like traditional shisha
08:42:56 <kallisti> also it was stupid expensive so it better be good
08:42:59 <kallisti> or I will send angry emails
08:43:01 <kallisti> (I won't)
08:43:59 <kallisti> arabic sure is a pretty script.
08:44:38 <kallisti> it kind of looks like what stereotypical alien language script looks like.
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08:45:22 <kallisti> oerjan: night
08:45:31 <shachaf> Vorpal$ echo "But I love that behavior!"
08:45:34 <shachaf> Oops.
08:45:39 <shachaf> Let me escape that.
08:45:44 <shachaf> Wait, what happened to my history?
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08:50:50 <Vorpal> <shachaf> Wait, what happened to my history? <-- that is what ! does ...
08:51:04 * shachaf looked up: help
08:51:12 <kallisti> ha, ha, get it.
08:51:14 <kallisti> good joke.
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08:55:41 <fizzie> I used to have a real colorful prompt, but I haven't bothered to keep it so now it's just the default. Though I don't really know what's up with this default '\[\e]0;\u@\h: \w\a\]\u@\h:\w\$ ' nonsense, it looks just like the plain '\u@\h:\w\$ ' part.
08:56:58 <shachaf> fizzie: The first part is setting the terminal's title.
08:57:17 <fizzie> Ah, right; couldn't remember what esc-]0; was.
08:58:22 <Vorpal> I don't know why they try to match escape codes with \] btw, but it seems to matter, or readline gets fucked up if your input causes a line wrap
08:59:18 <fizzie> Seems I've used PS1="[\t] \[\e[1;34m\]\u@\h \[\e[1;32m\]\w \[\e[1;37m\]\$ \[\e[0m\]" in some bygone age. Bluh.
08:59:37 <Vorpal> what does that do?
08:59:47 <Vorpal> oh timestamp
08:59:49 <Vorpal> right
08:59:57 <Vorpal> doesn't look too bad
08:59:57 <fizzie> Well, it's not that far from yours, except with swapped colors and the timestamp.
09:00:06 <fizzie> And a differently colored $.
09:00:13 <Deewiant> export PS1="[$CYAN%D{%F} :: %D{%T}$NORMAL] $GOLD%n$NORMAL@$GOLD%m $GREEN%~$NORMAL
09:00:16 <Deewiant> $ "
09:00:19 <Vorpal> I think mine is based on gentoo's default prompt around 2004 but with some changes
09:00:21 <Deewiant> I'm all literate.
09:00:22 <shachaf> PS1="1:$PS1"
09:00:37 <Vorpal> Deewiant: what does echo "$PS1" output?
09:00:44 <Vorpal> because that is useless without the rest of your file
09:00:57 <Deewiant> Vorpal: It outputs in colour, that can't be copied.
09:01:10 <Vorpal> Deewiant: huh echo $PS1 here doesn't output in colour
09:01:14 <Deewiant> Vorpal: zsh.
09:01:17 <Vorpal> ah
09:01:22 <Vorpal> well, can't test it anyway then
09:01:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:02:10 <fizzie> That's a long timestamp.
09:02:19 <Vorpal> hm?
09:02:25 <Deewiant> (The colour codes are: normal = 0, green = 32, cyan = 36, gold = 33, yellow = 33, magenta = 35)
09:02:27 <Vorpal> your prompt, yes
09:02:29 <fizzie> [yyyy-mm-dd :: HH:MM:SS], in Deewiant's.
09:02:32 <Vorpal> oh right
09:03:09 -!- Sgeo has joined.
09:03:46 <fizzie> Some people use two-line prompts and stuffs.
09:03:57 <Vorpal> I have seen that, never liked it
09:03:58 <Deewiant> Mine is two-line.
09:04:08 <Vorpal> oh, %n is a newline?
09:04:14 <Deewiant> No, the line break is a newline.
09:04:16 <fizzie> Oh, that's what the raw newline was about.
09:04:17 <Vorpal> bbl, university
09:04:51 <Deewiant> First line is essentially "[timestamp] user@host pwd" and the second is just "$ "
09:05:19 <fizzie> Right. I just concatenated them when testing, didn't realize the newline was intentional.
09:06:39 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:07:06 -!- augur has joined.
09:07:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:11:44 -!- Sgeo has joined.
09:30:08 <kallisti> holy crap
09:30:12 <kallisti> I am lightheaded now.
09:30:14 <kallisti> hello
09:30:17 <kallisti>  𐎣𐎠𐎼𐎿𐏃𐎠
09:42:07 <kallisti>  In chemistry alcohol can refer to more than ethyl alcohol. Methyl (wood) alcohol is poisonous.
09:42:16 <kallisti> poisonous as opposed to...?
10:00:44 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving).
10:07:14 <Vorpal> hi
10:10:33 <oklopol> not poisonous
10:11:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:12:53 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
10:13:11 <kallisti> oklopol: right but in the context of ethyl alcohol...
10:14:04 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
10:14:59 -!- Sgeo has joined.
10:16:07 <kallisti> Sgeo: hi
10:16:17 <kallisti> Slereah_:
10:16:18 <kallisti> hi
10:18:01 <kallisti> `ls logs
10:18:08 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access logs: No such file or directory
10:18:12 <kallisti> `ls
10:18:14 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ x
10:18:31 <kallisti> `ls share
10:18:32 <HackEgo> units.dat
10:18:42 <kallisti> `ls /
10:18:43 <HackEgo> bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr \ var
10:18:53 * kallisti though hackego had logs on it
10:19:16 <kallisti> `fetch http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt
10:19:19 <HackEgo> 2011-11-23 10:19:19 URL:http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt [53284/53284] -> "2011-11-23-raw.txt" [1]
10:19:21 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:20:03 <Vorpal> kallisti, why?
10:20:17 <Vorpal> `ls bin
10:20:19 <HackEgo> ​? \ @ \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ units \ url \ welcome \ wl \ word \ wtf
10:20:27 <Vorpal> `url bin/log
10:20:29 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/log
10:20:44 <Vorpal> so logs are available in /var/irclogs/_esoteric
10:20:46 <kallisti> that's a weird place to put logs but okay
10:20:56 <Vorpal> `rm "2011-11-23-raw.txt"
10:20:58 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `"2011-11-23-raw.txt"': No such file or directory
10:20:59 <kallisti> (bin/log that is
10:21:00 <kallisti> )
10:21:06 -!- Sgeo has joined.
10:21:08 <kallisti> Vorpal: sheesh calm down I was going to delete it once I was done.
10:21:09 <kallisti> :P
10:21:12 <Vorpal> kallisti, ... bin/log is a script
10:21:23 <Vorpal> `log kallisti
10:21:40 <Vorpal> hm
10:21:47 <kallisti> takes a while
10:21:51 <Vorpal> definitely
10:21:53 <HackEgo> 2011-11-22.txt:00:45:46: <kallisti> also def
10:21:56 <Vorpal> `log kallisti
10:21:58 <kallisti> also: def
10:22:02 <Vorpal> should be faster now
10:22:06 <HackEgo> 2011-11-22.txt:06:41:40: <elliott> kallisti: basically the player behind the ship keeps playing for ten seconds and you have to get in range and aim it
10:22:06 <Vorpal> cached and so on
10:26:41 <kallisti> `run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:26:44 <HackEgo> Sgeo 179; augur 85;  53; pikhq 47; Darth_Cliche 47; pikhq_ 13; sebbu2 7; Slereah_ 3; Jafet 3; copumpkin 3; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; calamari 2; GreaseMonkey 1; kallisti 1;
10:27:30 <kallisti> `run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-22-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:27:31 <augur> O_O
10:27:32 <HackEgo> copumpkin 610; Jafet 399; GreaseMonkey 357; Madoka-Kaname 303; ineiros 252; derdon 245; DCliche 234; Phantom_Hoover 232; monqy 196; new2net 165; kmc 144; myndz\ 115; derrik 93; pkzip 89; pikhq 73; Darth_Cliche 72; pikhq_ 70; Lymee 53; MSleep 50; ais523 42; augur 42; oerjan 37; Ngevd 36; Phantom__Hoover 31; augur_ 26;  21; sebbu2 15; MDude 11; derrik_ 6; Slereah 3; FireFly 3; aloril 2; Lymia 2; Sgeo 2; Patashu 1; Nisstyre 1;
10:28:44 <Vorpal> kallisti, what are you measuring?
10:28:48 <kallisti> number of joins
10:28:57 <Vorpal> and the first time?
10:29:03 <kallisti> same thing.
10:29:09 <kallisti> first one is today second is yesterday
10:29:14 <Vorpal> ah
10:29:21 <Vorpal> according to what timezone?
10:29:28 <kallisti> the... logs
10:29:33 <kallisti> whatever that one is. UTC?
10:29:47 <Vorpal> clog is in some weird US timezone I know
10:32:03 <Vorpal> I'm sleepy and I'm at university and I have a lecture in 1.5 hours
10:32:21 <kallisti> are you the giving or receiving partner of this lecture.
10:32:32 <Vorpal> I'm a student so...
10:32:41 <kallisti> ah
10:32:55 <Vorpal> actually two lectures, each taking two hours
10:33:01 <kallisti> I think I have some kind of weird delusion that some people on this channel are like professors or something.
10:33:06 <Vorpal> right after each other
10:33:16 <kallisti> Dr. Monqy
10:33:42 <Vorpal> really?
10:33:51 <kallisti> I mean not really no.
10:33:54 <Vorpal> ah
10:35:21 <kallisti> `run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\w+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:35:29 <HackEgo> 474;
10:35:32 <kallisti> .....
10:35:41 <kallisti> yes of course.
10:35:53 <kallisti> `run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:35:58 <HackEgo> Sgeo 206; augur 67;  53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1;
10:36:16 <Vorpal> kallisti, your code is suffering from UUOC
10:36:35 <kallisti> oh wait PART isn't actually an IRC command is it.
10:36:39 <kallisti> also what is UUOC
10:36:44 <Vorpal> useless use of cat
10:37:04 <Vorpal> kallisti, and afaik PART is an irc command, but maybe no one parted?
10:38:15 <kallisti> oh, I just use cat because I'm more prone to fuck up if I don't
10:38:15 <shachaf> kallisti: Sure it is.
10:38:15 <shachaf> Vorpal: That's not a useless use of cat.
10:38:15 <shachaf> Vorpal: It's more readable than using <
10:38:15 <Vorpal> `run perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' < /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt
10:38:15 <HackEgo> Sgeo 212; augur 67;  53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1;
10:38:15 <Vorpal> shachaf, no it isn't
10:38:15 <augur> ENOUGH OF THIS
10:38:15 <kallisti> well I could even just pass it in as an argument to perl
10:38:15 <Vorpal> shachaf, and it spawns an extra process
10:38:15 <Vorpal> kallisti, sure, I'm no perl expert
10:38:17 <Vorpal> shachaf, cat is useless unless used interactively to dump a file to your terminal or to *concatenate* files.
10:38:19 <shachaf> Vorpal: Oh no! Amidst this paragon of efficiency, this beautifully-optimized log-searching machine, a traitor!
10:38:25 <kallisti> -n basically says "loop through lines from files passed as command arguments or stdin"
10:38:46 <shachaf> Vorpal: I like to read command lines left-to-right. generate-things | do-things-to-things | output-things and so on.
10:39:00 <kallisti> shachaf: dude perl is the most optimized of the languages.
10:39:04 <shachaf> "cat foo" is a great way to say "generate the contents of this file"
10:40:06 <kallisti> (yes languages, not implementations)
10:40:06 <kallisti> anyway this conversation is silly :P
10:40:06 <shachaf> I don't care that it spawns an extra process. If I was worrying about efficiency I'd be doing something else.
10:40:06 <kallisti> I wonder if there's an easier way to say "sort in descending order" than sort {$b <=> $a} @blah
10:40:06 <Vorpal> `run dd if=/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt of=/dev/stdout | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:40:06 <HackEgo> 127+1 records in \ 127+1 records out \ 65070 bytes (65 kB) copied, 0.008997 s, 7.2 MB/s \ Sgeo 229; augur 67;  53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1;
10:40:06 <Vorpal> eh, almost :P
10:40:21 <shachaf> Vorpal: Look, cat is a very standard read-file tool.
10:41:05 <Vorpal> `run dd if=/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt of=/dev/stdout status=noxfer | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:41:05 <shachaf> It's not making things more complicated. Everyone knows what cat means.
10:41:05 <HackEgo> 130+1 records in \ 130+1 records out \ Sgeo 237; augur 67;  53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1;
10:41:05 <Vorpal> hm...
10:41:05 <kallisti> I like how this debate is completely ridiculous
10:41:05 <kallisti> :P
10:41:05 <shachaf> kallisti: Vorpal isn't the first person to bring up this annoying point.
10:41:05 <Vorpal> `run dd if=/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt of=/dev/stdout 2>/dev/null | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:41:05 <Vorpal> that should work
10:41:05 <HackEgo> Sgeo 237; augur 67;  53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1;
10:41:05 <kallisti> ah it has a long grudgeful history
10:41:05 <Vorpal> yeah
10:41:08 <Vorpal> kallisti, indeed
10:41:13 <shachaf> Vorpal: Not as good.
10:41:23 <shachaf> cat reports errors.
10:41:23 <Vorpal> shachaf, indeed, but sillier :P
10:41:28 <kallisti> anyway point is: Sgeo is spammy
10:41:36 <shachaf> Right. < and dd are both sillier.
10:41:45 <Vorpal> shachaf, < is the cleanest solution
10:41:51 <Vorpal> except for passing it as argument to perl
10:41:57 <kallisti> @tell Phantom_Hoover significantly associated with join/part spam my ass :P
10:41:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
10:42:02 <kallisti> anyway the point was to prove PH wrong.
10:42:28 <kallisti> so I win. yay.
10:42:28 <shachaf> Vorpal: If you were at least putting it at the front of the command line I *might* believe you.
10:42:28 -!- glogbackup has joined.
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10:42:31 <shachaf> `</var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt run perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:42:39 <Vorpal> shachaf, so you avoid "where" in haskell?
10:42:39 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/</var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt: No such file or directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/</var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt: cannot execute: No such file or directory
10:42:54 <kallisti> Vorpal: where is a different thing.
10:42:57 <kallisti> I think.
10:42:59 <shachaf> Vorpal: No, but when I write out composition or application, I do it in order.
10:43:10 <shachaf> `run </var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt run perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:43:11 <HackEgo> bash: run: command not found
10:43:13 <kallisti> as where involves arrangement levels of abstraction
10:43:18 <Vorpal> IMO the order of composition is the wrong one
10:43:18 <kallisti> whereas this is pipelining data.
10:43:24 <shachaf> `run </var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
10:43:27 <HackEgo> Sgeo 262; augur 67;  53; pikhq_ 41; derdon 38; copumpkin 15; glogbackup 14; calamari 12; monqy 8; oerjan 6; Darth_Cliche 6; sebbu2 5; Jafet 4; pikhq 3; kmc 3; Slereah_ 2; GreaseMonkey 2; SgeoN1 2; quintopia 2; Slereah 1; sebbu 1; Nisstyre 1;
10:43:32 <Vorpal> :t flip (.)
10:43:33 <lambdabot> forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => f a -> (a -> b) -> f b
10:43:37 <shachaf> Vorpal: It doesn't matter which order it goes in.
10:43:40 <shachaf> bash has the opposite order.
10:43:43 <shachaf> They're both fine.
10:43:43 <kallisti> OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE.
10:43:47 * kallisti will never use cat again.
10:43:48 <kallisti> (lie)
10:43:50 <shachaf> The point is that cat is just one more step in the pipeline.
10:44:58 <kallisti> `run perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/*raw.txt   #wheeeeee
10:45:12 <kallisti> this is going to be so fun
10:45:30 <HackEgo> No output.
10:45:32 <Vorpal> well < worked fine there at the start
10:45:32 <Vorpal> as expected
10:45:32 <kallisti> ..
10:45:34 <kallisti> :(
10:46:01 <kallisti> did it timeout or something?
10:46:02 <Vorpal> gah, lag
10:46:07 <Vorpal> fuck this wlan
10:46:19 <shachaf> Vorpal: What's the point in making a special-case for the "generating something" part of a pipeline when the "something" happens to be the contents of exactly one file?
10:46:22 <Vorpal> kallisti, probably
10:46:45 <kallisti> `run echo perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/*raw.txt
10:46:46 <shachaf> If it was 0 files, or 2 files, you would say to use echo or cat. Why make a special case for 1?
10:46:52 <HackEgo> perl -n -e /:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j} /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-18-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-19-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-20-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-21-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-22-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-23-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-24-raw.txt
10:46:55 <kallisti> oh oops
10:47:13 <kallisti> `run echo perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/*raw.txt > donttimeoutplz.sh
10:47:16 <HackEgo> No output.
10:47:26 <kallisti> `donttimeoutplz.sh
10:47:27 <kallisti> er
10:47:28 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: donttimeoutplz.sh: not found
10:47:37 <kallisti> `run ./donttimeoutplz.sh
10:47:37 <HackEgo> bash: ./donttimeoutplz.sh: Permission denied
10:47:39 <kallisti> `run chmod +x ./donttimeoutplz.sh
10:47:47 <HackEgo> No output.
10:47:48 <kallisti> `run ./donttimeoutplz.sh
10:47:59 <kallisti> I have no idea how this will fix anything
10:48:15 <HackEgo> ​./donttimeoutplz.sh: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ ./donttimeoutplz.sh: line 1: `perl -n -e /:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j} /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-18-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-19-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-20-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-21-raw.txt /var/irclogs/_esoteric/2003-01-22-raw.txt
10:48:15 <kallisti> bah
10:48:15 <kallisti> `rm donttimeoutplz.sh
10:48:15 <kallisti> fuck you bash
10:48:16 <HackEgo> No output.
10:48:19 <kallisti> and your escaping bullshit.
10:48:29 <kallisti> er
10:48:33 <kallisti> wait what
10:48:33 <Vorpal> gnh this connection...
10:49:19 <Vorpal> okay reconnected to bouncer again, hopefully more stable
10:49:45 <Vorpal> kallisti, anyway you want to know who has most JOIN, PART, QUIT over all the history?
10:49:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:49:59 <kallisti> yes
10:50:11 <Vorpal> kallisti, I can do that in a bit if sshing home is stable enough
10:50:18 <kallisti> `run echo '#!/bin/sh' > bin/hi; echo perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!\S+ (JOIN|PART|QUIT)/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/*raw.txt >> bin/hi
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10:54:29 <Vorpal> kallisti, elliott and elliott_ and tusho and other aliases he used are all merged into elliott in the logs_na view
10:54:36 <Vorpal> similar for other known cases
10:54:55 <kallisti> ah
10:55:07 <Vorpal> anyway that doesn't tell you much really
10:55:14 <kallisti> nah I was just curious
10:55:16 <kallisti> `rm bin/hi
10:55:18 <Vorpal> after all, elliott has been active for long
10:55:39 <kallisti> and Sgeo is obviously a scoundrel.
10:56:00 <Vorpal> sgeo has been around for ages too
10:56:04 <Vorpal> let see count of lines
10:56:13 <Vorpal> => select nick,COUNT(*) from irc.logs_na where type in (0,1) group by nick order by count desc limit 4;
10:56:13 <Vorpal>   nick   | count
10:56:13 <Vorpal> ---------+--------
10:56:13 <Vorpal>  elliott | 690342
10:56:13 <Vorpal>  Vorpal  | 284600
10:56:13 <Vorpal>  ais523  | 144113
10:56:14 <HackEgo> No output.
10:56:17 <Vorpal>  oerjan  | 100266
10:56:43 * kallisti has "been around" but not consistently.
10:56:43 <Vorpal> looks like I'm still second in number of lines said
10:56:46 <kallisti> Vorpal: if you combine all of my nicks together I am probably creeping forward.
10:56:57 <Vorpal> kallisti, don't know which ones you have
10:57:08 <Vorpal> and I'm not going to edit that view definition over laggy ssh
10:57:18 <Vorpal> it is done by regexp
10:57:39 <kallisti> SevenInchBread, CakeProphet, and kallisti.  both in acsending chronological order and in descending order of obnoxiousness.
10:57:46 <Vorpal> which is kind of slow
10:57:54 <Vorpal> maybe a JOIN on a nick-mapping table would be better
10:57:59 <Vorpal> => select count(*) from irc.logs where nick = 'kallisti' and type in (0,1);
10:58:00 <Vorpal>  count
10:58:00 <Vorpal> -------
10:58:00 <Vorpal>   1365
10:58:07 <Vorpal> kallisti, oh you are CakeProphet, right
10:58:12 <kallisti> yes
10:59:03 <kallisti> soon it will sink in.
10:59:03 <Vorpal> => select count(*) from irc.logs where nick in ('kallisti', 'CakeProphet', 'SevenInchBread') and type in (0,1);
10:59:03 <Vorpal>  count
10:59:03 <Vorpal> -------
10:59:03 <Vorpal>  55136
10:59:03 <fizzie> I should probably make a nick-merging thing too some day for my logdb.
10:59:03 <kallisti> hm
10:59:03 <kallisti> that's not very much actually.
10:59:03 <fizzie> > select n.name, count(*) from event e join nick n on e.nick = n.id where e.type in ('join', 'part', 'quit') and e.target = (select id from target where name = '#esoteric') group by n.name order by count desc limit 3;
10:59:03 <fizzie>   name  | count
10:59:03 <fizzie> --------+-------
10:59:03 <fizzie>  augur  |  7271
10:59:03 <fizzie>  oerjan |  5367
10:59:03 <lambdabot>   <no location info>: parse error on input `,'
10:59:03 <fizzie>  ais523 |  4133
10:59:03 <fizzie> The non-merged ones lie so much.
10:59:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, the regexp solution is not very fast. It does handle stuff like Sgeo|foo for all foo
10:59:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, event e?
10:59:37 <fizzie> Yes?
10:59:50 <Vorpal> what is that. I fail at parsing that sql line.
11:00:02 <augur> WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM MEEEE
11:00:09 <fizzie> 'event' is the table, 'e' is the name for it so that one can write e.foo.
11:00:18 <Vorpal> oh right
11:00:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, so, you changed your script significantly then?
11:00:43 <kallisti> augur: you could have avoided this if you hadn't joined/parted/quit quite so much in the past.
11:00:47 <Vorpal> or are you logging straight to sql now?
11:00:48 <kallisti> augur: shame on you
11:01:13 <augur> kallisti: diaf
11:01:17 <fizzie> Vorpal: Well, this is not the esolog script, this is my "all logs in a db for searching" one, which was reasonably different even originally.
11:01:28 <Vorpal> ah
11:01:46 <fizzie> Vorpal: Sadly I haven't managed to make myself do the search frontend, so mostly I just grep the raw logs instead. :p
11:01:58 <Vorpal> heh
11:02:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, you used the db just there?
11:02:09 <kallisti> augur: "do I actually fuck?"  "digging in a fountain" uh....
11:02:11 <Vorpal> anyway, sql for searching is fine
11:02:40 <kallisti> augur: I'm not very good with IRC lingo or whatever that is.
11:02:54 <Vorpal> kallisti, data interpolation address float
11:03:02 <augur> what Vorpal said
11:03:11 <kallisti> wat
11:03:20 <Vorpal> kallisti, only if you have fractional memory addressing
11:03:26 <kallisti> is that like
11:03:30 <kallisti> a dessert drink?
11:03:54 <Vorpal> kallisti, I mean *2.94 to address the bit on address 2.94
11:04:18 <kallisti> I'm
11:04:27 <Vorpal> kallisti, it obviously interpolate if required, depending on the resolution of you memory banks
11:04:28 <kallisti> so confused right now. what does this have to do with what I said.
11:04:41 <Vorpal> kallisti, diaf...
11:04:52 <kallisti> augur said that
11:04:53 <kallisti> to me
11:04:59 <kallisti> for some reason
11:04:59 <kallisti> why?
11:05:01 <Vorpal> kallisti, "die in a fire"
11:05:03 <Vorpal> is what he means
11:05:08 <kallisti> ah
11:05:08 <kallisti> yes
11:05:16 <Vorpal> kallisti, I just invented a different interpretation...
11:05:25 <Vorpal> jokes aren't funny when you explain them
11:05:35 <kallisti> LIES AREN'T FUNNY
11:05:56 <kallisti> Vorpal: I kind of thought it was made up but then it got all consensus'd and I was confused.
11:06:07 <kallisti> groupthink help
11:06:08 <Vorpal> kallisti, obviously augur has humour.
11:06:19 <fizzie> Vorpal: SQL's fine for counting things and such, but after separating "targets" (read (network,channel) tuples) into a different table, and network names to a third one, it's quite faster to write "grep foo logs/freenode/#esoteric/*" than "psql" + "select n.name, e.text from logs.event e join logs.nick n on e.nick = n.id where e.target = (select id from logs.target t join logs.network w on t.network = w.id where w.name = 'freenode' and t.name = '#esoteric') and
11:06:22 <fizzie>  e.text like '%foo';"
11:06:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, true
11:06:40 <augur> i bought a bag of humour the other day
11:06:45 <augur> havent gotten even halfway through it yet
11:06:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, can be /way/ faster to do in sql, Unless it is way slower
11:07:21 <augur> ive been into turkish humour lately
11:07:28 <Vorpal> I have no idea what that is
11:07:42 <augur> it might be a bit too saccharine but its soooo good
11:08:05 * Vorpal googles saccharine
11:08:11 <kallisti> sugar
11:08:23 <kallisti> er
11:08:23 <kallisti> well
11:08:23 <Vorpal> right
11:08:23 <kallisti> it's a made up word
11:08:23 <Vorpal> "Saccharin[2] is an artificial sweetener."
11:08:26 <kallisti> oh
11:08:29 <kallisti> nevermind
11:08:49 <kallisti> I've seen saccharine or something similar used as like an adjective form of saccharide
11:08:51 <fizzie> 1. cloying, saccharine, syrupy, treacly -- (overly sweet)
11:08:52 <kallisti> to basically mean sugary
11:09:00 <kallisti> oh
11:09:02 <kallisti> yes that
11:09:15 <Vorpal> kallisti, anyway I guess the interpolated float addressing is kind of how 1D texture units work on GPUs
11:09:28 <Vorpal> kind of
11:09:31 <augur> saccharine also has a metaphorical sense
11:09:41 <Vorpal> augur, meaning?
11:10:04 <augur> sentimental, cute, sweet, to an obnoxious degree
11:10:07 <Vorpal> ah
11:10:17 <augur> twee
11:10:39 <Vorpal> augur, you should say 2H-1λ⁶,2-benzothiazol-1,1,3-trione instead
11:10:42 <Vorpal> :D
11:10:51 <augur> no i shouldnt
11:10:54 <Vorpal> yes you should
11:11:06 <Vorpal> that is the IUPAC name for saccharin
11:11:17 <augur> ok
11:11:19 <augur> GOOD NIGHT
11:11:22 <Vorpal> cya
11:12:03 <fizzie> "saccharine, adj. and n. Etymology:  Formed as saccharin n. + -ine suffix. Compare French saccharin. .. saccharin, n. Etymology: < medieval Latin sacchar-um or Greek σάκχαρον , σάκχαρ(ι) sugar + -in suffix. 1. The anhydride of saccharic acid. (Discovered and named by Péligot 1880.) 2. An intensely sweet substance obtained from coal tar, o-sulphobenzoic imide, C7H5NO3S, used in minute quantities for sweetening the food or drink of persons to whom
11:12:06 <fizzie>  sugar is injurious. ..."
11:14:32 <fizzie> "Swiftly and cloying-sweet as saccharine In Governmental tea, a week had melted. G. Frankau, One of Them xvii. 128, 1918." The quotations are always so delightfully random.
11:15:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, where is that from?
11:15:06 <Vorpal> sounds like fungot
11:15:07 <fungot> Vorpal: in a good story, they function in an undiagnosable way? for instance, i've recently picked up a hobby, and it's been super great! i signed up for an english as a second language course.
11:15:10 <Vorpal> ^style
11:15:11 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube
11:15:18 <Vorpal> ^style ct
11:15:18 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
11:15:52 <fizzie> OED. Or if you mean the quotation itself, it's from G. Frankau's One of Them, like it says.
11:16:01 <Vorpal> hm
11:16:09 <fizzie> fungot: The sword alone?
11:17:01 <fungot> fizzie: that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop, crono!
11:17:01 <fizzie> Woot.
11:17:01 <fizzie> I like how it actually stopped there at the end.
11:17:01 <Vorpal> whatever book that is
11:17:01 <Vorpal> gah the connection
11:17:01 <Vorpal> heh
11:19:27 <fizzie> "The first Aalto SCI November Fest, held on 24th November, attracted nearly 200 researchers from all our Departments. Below a list of the research posters which were in the exhibition at Saha building."
11:19:39 <fizzie> I like how they've written this newspost in past tense, even though the actual thing is tomorrow.
11:19:54 <Vorpal> lol
11:20:25 <fizzie> Wonder if they'd retcon the numbers if significantly fewer-than-registered people happened to actually come there.
11:21:07 <Vorpal> heh
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11:36:08 <Gregor> glogbackup: Uhhh.
11:36:43 <fizzie> Possibly it thought "better safe than sorry".
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11:40:55 <fizzie> UPS tracking is being confusing. There's a no-location "Activity: A valid tax identification number or deferment number is required for clearance" at 6:53AM; then after that, in sequence, 7:25AM "Arrival Scan" in Helsinki; 7:57AM "Arrival Scan" in Vantaa (neighbour town); and 9:44AM "Import Scan" again in Helsinki. And then nothing else during the day, except the ETA is still listed as "By End of Day" today.
11:42:36 <Vorpal> fizzie, heh
11:43:19 <Vorpal> I'll bbl until late evening. Cya
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13:08:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Hello everyone, lambdabot.
13:08:10 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
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16:13:22 <quintopia> what is this thing that has numbers net to nicks and got me pinged like fifty times
16:17:20 <Deewiant> 2011-11-23 12:26:24 ( kallisti) `run cat '/var/irclogs/_esoteric/2011-11-23-raw.txt' | perl -n -e '/:(.*?)!.*JOIN/; $j{$1}++; END {print "$_ $j{$_}; " for sort {$j{$b} <=> $j{$a}} keys %j}'
16:40:28 <Vorpal> <quintopia> what is this thing that has numbers net to nicks and got me pinged like fifty times <-- how can you look in the log and see those lines but not the lines just before them?
16:40:37 <Vorpal> that makes no sense
16:41:46 <Vorpal> quintopia: ?
16:43:04 <Deewiant> Vorpal: Away logs ofttimes show only the lines containing the pings
16:43:13 <Vorpal> ah, those
16:43:14 <Vorpal> right
16:43:35 <Vorpal> I only have full logs personally, no special away log at all
16:44:20 <Deewiant> Irssi auto-prints an away log upon unawaying
16:44:36 <Deewiant> Unless one has it disabled, presumably
16:46:00 <Vorpal> [download]   6.8% of 1.31G at  368.22k/s ETA 57:54 <-- whyyyyy!? The video is 38 minutes. I can't watch it while downloading. Why can't youtube max out my bw...
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16:54:41 <elliott> 21:35:07: <Vorpal> @src ap
16:54:41 <elliott> 21:35:07: <lambdabot> ap = liftM2 id
16:54:41 <elliott> 21:35:13: <Vorpal> oh Applicative, right
16:54:41 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
16:54:43 <elliott> no, Monad
17:12:49 <elliott> 23:17:24: <pikhq> Is that the requirements for *citizenship*?
17:12:49 <elliott> 23:17:40: <kallisti> yes
17:12:49 <elliott> 23:17:51: <pikhq> God damn.
17:13:06 <elliott> pikhq_: I think you'll find that most countries want you to have an in-demand skill or a lot of money to move there?
17:13:45 <elliott> 23:39:31: <kallisti> oerjan: wtf, so you've alternated between the same two prime ministers for the last 14 years or so?
17:13:52 <elliott> We alternated between the same one for ten years.
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17:15:56 <elliott> 01:02:24: <kallisti> I'm kind of confused about Barack Obama and the Nobel Peace Prize
17:15:56 <elliott> 01:02:34: <kallisti> did he get it because... he wasn't George Bush?
17:16:05 <elliott> Didn't everyone believe he was going to shut down Guantanamo at the time?
17:16:10 <elliott> That's like... not punching someone any more.
17:16:13 <elliott> That's sort of peacey?
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17:16:59 <Vorpal> <elliott> pikhq_: I think you'll find that most countries want you to have an in-demand skill or a lot of money to move there? <-- What about Schegen? (however that is spelled)
17:17:40 <elliott> Vorpal: Yes, which requires you to get into an EU country, which will require... an in-demand skill, or a lot of money.
17:17:49 <Vorpal> oh right
17:17:58 <elliott> oh hi doom 3 source code!
17:18:06 <Vorpal> elliott: I guess in this context the Schegen area counts pretty much as one country
17:18:16 <Vorpal> elliott: hm when was that released?
17:18:18 <Vorpal> today?
17:18:20 <elliott> today
17:18:23 <Vorpal> nice
17:18:27 <Vorpal> elliott: got a link?
17:18:31 <elliott> eeh, 3 github notifications
17:18:33 <Vorpal> ah
17:18:38 <elliott> i hope the other fork doesn't realise i'm collaborating
17:18:41 <elliott> Vorpal: https://github.com/TTimo/doom3.gpl
17:18:52 <Vorpal> <elliott> i hope the other fork doesn't realise i'm collaborating <-- huh?
17:19:00 <elliott> Vorpal: i reported the same bug to two forks :)
17:19:04 <elliott> of the same project
17:19:04 <Vorpal> heh
17:19:45 <Vorpal> hm originally released 2004, kind of semi-modern then
17:20:01 <elliott> It has the most HD shadows.
17:20:58 <elliott> "I would say I would prefer my ugly hack to adding the ScopedTypeVariable extension."
17:21:01 <elliott> Oh come on!
17:21:36 <Vorpal> heh funny physics bug in skyrim, you can get thrown upwards sometimes when being killed by giants at a tremendous speed.
17:21:58 <Vorpal> well not so much tremendous speed, as lack of slowing down.
17:23:18 <Vorpal> elliott: you will enjoy this video, unless you already seen the bug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQihK62XsrM
17:23:47 <Vorpal> (the bug happens in the last third or so of the video)
17:26:09 <elliott> meh, i think i'll abandon this fork, the other one looks better
17:29:18 <elliott> Vorpal: rheh
17:29:23 <elliott> s/rheh/heh/
17:29:45 <Vorpal> elliott: it wouldn't be a havok game without silly physics bugs :P
17:29:54 <Vorpal> (yes I'm pretty sure I read that it uses havok)
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17:36:49 <elliott> does anyone know what license the OpenCL headers are for?
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17:39:24 <Vorpal> elliott: btw really stupid thing when dealing with chests in game: R is put in chest when viewing your inventory. What do you think R is when viewing the chest inventory?
17:39:30 <Vorpal> elliott: hint: it is /not/ take item
17:39:48 <elliott> Is it "destroy with fire".
17:39:52 <Vorpal> elliott: "take everything"
17:40:26 <Vorpal> which is just annoying when you are putting a lot of loot into a chest in your house. Chests have no weight limits either. So you can end up with a few thousand kilos. E is take single item
17:40:31 <Vorpal> and in inventory view e is use
17:40:34 <Vorpal> so yeeeah
17:40:46 <Vorpal> it is just the worst mapping ever
17:40:52 <Vorpal> btw click is use too in inventory
17:41:48 <elliott> See, AII has the best mapping.
17:44:04 <Vorpal> elliott: and is not an RPG
17:44:13 <elliott> Exactly. That's two improvements already!
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17:48:07 <Vorpal> elliott: :(
17:48:58 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:55:33 <Vorpal> bbl
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17:56:51 <elliott> 01:51:25: * oerjan realizes that nearly half his life is _after_ the soviet union dissolved
17:57:00 * elliott realises that all his life etc. :P
17:59:30 <pikhq_> elliott: Some countries are dickier about it than others.
17:59:53 <elliott> About what
17:59:58 <pikhq_> Immigration.
18:00:07 <elliott> Right
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18:15:38 <elliott> 08:29:00: <oerjan> elliott is still trying to improve his funge98 in haskell interpreter
18:15:47 <elliott> IF NOT FOR A CERTAIN OTHER PERSON COUGH COUGH COUGH
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18:19:42 <elliott> 10:36:16: <Vorpal> kallisti, your code is suffering from UUOC
18:19:49 <elliott> your line is suffering from UUOUUOC
18:20:11 <elliott> 10:38:15: <shachaf> Vorpal: That's not a useless use of cat.
18:20:11 <elliott> 10:38:15: <shachaf> Vorpal: It's more readable than using <
18:20:11 <elliott> 10:38:15: <Vorpal> shachaf, no it isn't
18:20:11 <elliott> Yes it is.
18:20:24 <elliott> 10:38:15: <Vorpal> shachaf, and it spawns an extra process
18:20:24 <elliott> You should see how many processes shell scripts spawn.
18:20:53 <elliott> Hmm, I was going to continue yelling at Vorpal through the logs but shachaf pretty much said everything.
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18:22:29 <elliott> 10:45:32: <Vorpal> well < worked fine there at the start
18:22:29 <elliott> 10:45:32: <Vorpal> as expected
18:22:37 <elliott> Pretty sure not every shell even supports that.
18:23:00 <elliott> `rm bin/hi
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18:28:24 <monqy> goodbye hi
18:28:31 <elliott> hackego???
18:28:31 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:28:36 <elliott> Gregor: hackegooooooo
18:28:41 <monqy> oh
18:28:44 <monqy> hackego...
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18:59:37 <shachaf> elliott: Aha, another sensible person.
18:59:43 <shachaf> In this channel. Go figure.
18:59:47 <elliott> `quote opinions
18:59:54 <elliott> Hmm, wait.
18:59:56 <elliott> `quote opinion
19:00:01 <elliott> Oh, wait.
19:00:04 <elliott> HackEgo isn't even here.
19:00:22 <shachaf> How quickly they forget.
19:00:35 <elliott>    381 <ZOMGMODULES> I can trust elliott_ to have an opinion on anything and everything <elliott_> Yes. <elliott_> And the best thing is: it is the correct opinion.
19:00:37 <elliott> There we go.
19:00:53 * elliott has even heard the "but it's another process thing!" before.
19:01:01 <elliott> fork() takes literally minutes.
19:01:03 <shachaf> elliott: Dude, like, efficiency, you know?
19:01:17 <shachaf> Think of the constant factors.
19:01:35 <elliott> shachaf: Personally I write all my shell pipelines in assembly.
19:01:45 <elliott> (mov eax, ebx) | ret
19:04:39 <elliott> "Function type A -> B in some sense is not very good. Though functions are first class values, one often cannot freely operate them due to efficiency problems. You can't apply too many transformations (A -> B) -> (C -> D), at some point you have to compute a value.
19:04:40 <elliott> Obviously this is due to the non-strict nature of -> ."
19:04:50 <elliott> shachaf: See, all we need is to make | strict.
19:05:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:06:45 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:11:08 <shachaf> elliott: ?
19:11:13 <shachaf> Ah, stackoverflow.
19:11:30 * elliott occasionally reads stackoverflow questions just to gawp at them.
19:11:43 <elliott> It is not the most productive thing, but I can't quite give up on seeing people ask for "alternatives to ->".
19:11:48 <elliott> You know, stricter ones.
19:21:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:22:47 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:23:28 <shachaf> elliott: To be fair, -> isn't -- actually, I can't think of any way to be fair.
19:23:54 <elliott> I think what they're saying is that (a . b . c . d) builds up too many thunks, and they want to "force" it somehow. By... deepseqing the function, I guess?
19:24:18 <elliott> I suppose TECHNICALLY every function has a finite domain if we're talking about real computers!
19:25:05 <shachaf> elliott: Operationalist.
19:25:13 <elliott> Heck naw
19:35:03 <Phantom_Hoover> oh god i watched father ted too much and now i think in an irish accent
19:40:49 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:54:05 <elliott> hi ais523
19:54:10 <ais523> hi
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20:29:06 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_%C3%93_hEochag%C3%A1in
20:29:13 <Phantom_Hoover> hEochagáin.
20:29:18 <elliott> h...Eochagáin.
20:31:32 <fizzie> Agáin with those Eochs.
20:31:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:32:01 <elliott> fizzie: *hEoch.
20:32:02 <elliott> s.
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20:48:36 <elliott> > id
20:48:37 <lambdabot>   Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a)
20:48:37 <lambdabot>    arising from a use of `...
20:48:40 <elliott> hi oerjan
20:48:49 <oerjan> hi elliott
20:48:59 * elliott awaits the joyful logreading.
20:49:05 <oerjan> oh dear
20:53:16 <oerjan> well i sense a lot of nick pinging
20:54:14 <elliott> PING
20:54:17 <elliott> PING PING PING PING PING
20:54:30 <oerjan> P P P PINGU
20:54:45 <fizzie> "Copyright   :  (c) Conal Elliott 2008" -- sounds like some sort of a subspecies of elliott. You know, the Conal Elliott and the Speral Elliott, and so on.
20:55:12 <fizzie> (The difference between them is that only one usually has a point.)
20:55:23 <elliott> Ha ha ha, fizzie doesn't know who Conal is.
20:55:26 <elliott> oerjan: :DDDDDDddddddd
20:56:01 <oerjan> _or_ he knows perfectly.  it remains to be seen.
20:56:52 <fizzie> Well, I know what I've googled, now. But it doesn't diminish the immediate "conical elliott" vibe.
20:58:45 -!- Ngevd has joined.
20:59:21 <oerjan> the Elliptal Elliott has no point, but at least he is brief about it
20:59:48 <Ngevd> Hello!
20:59:54 <oerjan> yo
20:59:56 <monqy> hi
21:00:09 <elliott> oerjan: the real elliott is like that, but without the briefness
21:00:50 <oerjan> your words not mine
21:01:59 <oerjan> <Vorpal> shachaf, cat is useless unless used interactively to dump a file to your terminal or to *concatenate* files.
21:02:09 <oerjan> sort of like return in a monad, come to think of it
21:02:43 <shachaf> @google oleg monad unix
21:02:44 <lambdabot> http://okmij.org/ftp/Computation/monadic-shell.html
21:02:44 <lambdabot> Title: UNIX pipes as IO monads
21:02:59 <oerjan> what's with all these logspeaking people being absent
21:03:07 <fizzie> I don't know, I've used "foo | cat" sometimes when 'foo' does different things depending on whether the output fd isatty(3) or not.
21:03:10 <oerjan> shachaf: well naturally
21:03:24 <shachaf> Naturally?
21:03:47 <oerjan> ok so it _is_ return in a monad.
21:03:54 <elliott> <oerjan> what's with all these logspeaking people being absent
21:04:09 <elliott> oerjan: That's what I thought about you when I was being passive-aggressive to you!
21:04:25 <shachaf> By the way, there's sometimes a legitimate excuse to use < instead of cat.
21:04:30 <shachaf> mesg y < /dev/pts/4
21:04:44 <oerjan> ha. ha ha. ha ha ha ha. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha,
21:04:47 <oerjan> *.
21:04:47 <elliott> shachaf: For once I think zzo is right about this; (>=>) is more correct than (>>=).
21:05:00 <oerjan> (fibonacci is _so_ out)
21:05:02 <elliott> shachaf: Also, I use < all the time, just not in pipelines.
21:05:10 <shachaf> elliott: Well, sure.
21:05:21 <shachaf> But I like the way you can do mesg <
21:06:24 <elliott> I just did that with /dev/pts/0. What did I do?
21:06:32 <elliott> Ohh, I see.
21:06:42 <elliott> That's lovely.
21:07:29 <shachaf> "Hey, I just pasted that random command you typed in IRC into my shell and there was no output. What did I just do to mny computer?"
21:08:15 <elliott> shachaf: Yes, exactly.
21:08:35 <shachaf> $ mesg
21:08:54 <shachaf> `? elliott
21:09:01 <shachaf> Bah.
21:09:04 <shachaf> Useless bot.
21:09:05 <elliott> HackEgo is sleeping.
21:09:16 <shachaf> HackEgo is dead.
21:09:35 <elliott> No, it will rise once more.
21:09:37 <fizzie> Someone should turn IRC (by royal decree, for example) into one of those talk-like places where you can see everyone's typings in the realest time.
21:09:42 <elliott> And maybe a few times after that.
21:09:58 <elliott> fizzie: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
21:10:12 <shachaf> fizzie: http://piratepad.net/ouKPdvpeCw
21:10:17 <shachaf> Everyone go there.
21:10:40 <fizzie> But that's not the IRC. :/
21:10:55 <fizzie> Also I would just copy-paste everything in.
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21:20:34 <oerjan> <elliott> "I would say I would prefer my ugly hack to adding the ScopedTypeVariable extension."
21:20:52 <elliott> oerjan: it isn't even the "rely on monomorphism" thing
21:21:24 <oerjan> well if it's the one from before, i was on my way to find a prettier way without ScopedTypeVariables before you said to use it
21:21:37 <elliott> oerjan: it's the https://github.com/jkarlson/OpenCLWrappers/blob/master/System/OpenCL/Wrappers/Utils.hs#L61 one :P
21:21:41 <oerjan> so it's ugly even if you don't want that extension
21:21:42 <elliott> but it's easy to do with a "where"
21:21:48 <elliott> or lambda monomorphism
21:21:57 <oerjan> yeah
21:22:22 <oerjan> yeah that's the one i remembered
21:23:10 <oerjan> my idea was something like...
21:24:42 <Sgeo> Um
21:26:02 <oerjan> oh hm the monad makes using asTypeOf a bit ugly
21:27:24 <elliott> Sgeo: Um?
21:28:05 <oerjan> peekManyInfo f x size = do a <- withForeignPtr x (\y -> (peekArray ( div (fromIntegral size) $ sizeOf c) $ castPtr y); return . f $ a `asTypeOf` [c] where c = undefined
21:28:16 <elliott> heh
21:28:29 <elliott> oerjan: i don't think that works
21:28:36 <elliott> oerjan: c is just :: forall a. (Bits a) => a
21:28:39 <oerjan> oh hm duh
21:29:05 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:29:08 <oerjan> ic that explains why he didn't use just let c = undefined
21:30:33 <oerjan> hm...
21:31:21 <oklopol> yay, i just gave a simpler proof to a problem that was proven 7 years ago, and which had been open for about 7 at that point
21:31:45 <elliott> oklopol: we need zeilberger in here to flamewar with you over that
21:32:05 <oklopol> the only known proof was done using kolmogorov complexity, and the proof itself was also very kolmogorov complicated.
21:32:09 <oklopol> what
21:32:12 <oklopol> do you mean
21:32:33 <Ngevd> Is it possible for a problem to go from closed to open?
21:32:54 <oklopol> i guess if the proof was wrong, you could say that
21:32:54 <oerjan> from apparently closed to open, at least
21:32:57 <oklopol> yeah
21:33:10 <oerjan> i recall that happened with the four color theorem at one point
21:33:18 <elliott> oklopol: zeilberger doesn't like people proving things twice :P
21:33:45 <oerjan> that's ridiculous really
21:33:53 <oklopol> that's fucking retarded, yes
21:34:05 <oerjan> new proofs often open new avenues
21:34:13 <oklopol> the first proof is always ridiculously long and stupid
21:34:58 <oklopol> and basic research eventually catches up and it becomes simple
21:35:05 <elliott> oerjan: yes
21:35:13 <oerjan> and for example there is the elementary proof of the prime number theorem, where a finitist like zeilberger would be unlikely to even accept the original as a proof, i suspect
21:35:16 * elliott tries to find a source
21:35:23 <elliott> oerjan: well he doesn't object to people proving things once :P
21:35:23 <oklopol> well what oerjan said is true as well, but that's not really the main reason.
21:35:26 <oklopol> what i said is.
21:35:43 <oerjan> elliott: um that was a new proof of an old theorem
21:35:57 <elliott> oerjan: i meant, he wouldn't consider it proved in the first place...
21:36:12 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:36:41 <oklopol> there's a chick at the uni who's doing a comparison of two techniques for proving the prime number theorem
21:37:28 <elliott> gah, where is this. oerjan: anyway, he was basically saying it was pointless, for reasons of proof irrelevance, and only interesting as a curiosity, because the complexity of a proof only matters to humans. and saying that nobody would get excited about a particularly elegant proof that (two small numbers equal another number when multiplied, or something like that, I forget)
21:37:35 <elliott> note: /me does not endorse zeilberger's opinions
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21:39:37 <oerjan> i'm starting to think that hack might actually be the most elegant way to do it without ScopedTypeVariables
21:39:47 <elliott> oerjan: i suspect it is mostly because in the paradigm zeilberger would like everyone to work in, humans wouldn't prove things at all :P
21:40:05 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
21:40:06 <oerjan> heh
21:40:56 <oklopol> yeah
21:41:43 <oerjan> as i doubt he'd accept MonadRec either :P
21:41:55 <oerjan> or whatsitcalled
21:42:00 <elliott> DoRec or something
21:42:19 <elliott> i'm probably just going to help the other fork instead because that guy has his shit together and doesn't use unsafeCoerce
21:42:32 <oklopol> also our paper was accepted into LATA, yays
21:42:46 <elliott> oklopol: yeah but do you have an oerjan number yet
21:43:10 <oerjan> hm
21:43:11 <oklopol> no :(
21:43:20 <oklopol> at least i don't know what i tis
21:43:21 <oklopol> *it is
21:43:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:43:33 <oklopol> it's at most 8 ofc
21:43:57 <oklopol> since oerjan has the same erd�s number as me iirc
21:44:22 <oerjan> peekManyInfo f x size = case undefined of c -> do a <- withForeignPtr x (\y -> (peekArray ( div (fromIntegral size) $ sizeOf c) $ castPtr y); return . f $ a `asTypeOf` [c]
21:45:12 <elliott> oerjan: gimme a name of someone you've collaborated with or w/e, I want to see if AMS' collaboration disatnce thing works :P
21:45:35 <oerjan> alf birger rustad
21:45:56 <elliott> No authors matched "Alf Birger Rustad" (Best format is: last name, first initial*)
21:45:56 <elliott> No authors matched "Oerjan Johannsen" (Best format is: last name, first initial*)
21:46:00 <elliott> FINE I'LL USE YOUR STUPID FORMAT
21:46:14 <oerjan> you could at least spell it correclty
21:46:28 <elliott> oerjan: oh what's the pslleing
21:46:32 <elliott> do you mean with the fancy O
21:46:33 <elliott> because
21:46:36 <elliott> We found more than one author that matched "Johannsen Ø" Please select an author from the list below.
21:46:37 <elliott> the list is:
21:46:39 <elliott> johannsen, daniel
21:46:43 <elliott> johannsen, david a
21:46:45 <oerjan> no, not that, i never got that to work either :P
21:46:45 <elliott> [...]
21:46:47 <elliott> johannsen, klaus
21:46:49 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:46:50 <elliott> [...] :P
21:46:55 <oklopol> wanna see if i'm there
21:46:56 <elliott> oerjan: ah thx /whois
21:46:58 <oklopol> i somehow doubt it
21:47:00 <elliott> oklopol: that was my next step
21:47:08 <elliott> oerjan: anyway they don't know who rustad a is
21:47:17 <elliott> gimme someone more MAINSTREAM that someone you know has collaborated with or someone!!
21:47:19 <elliott> maybe i'll just
21:47:22 <elliott> try erdos
21:47:23 <oerjan> elliott: the comma is not optional
21:47:34 <elliott> oh dur
21:47:45 <elliott> No authors matched "Johansen, Oerjan" (Best format is: last name, first initial*)
21:47:55 <oerjan> neither is the *, i think.
21:48:04 <elliott> No authors matched "Johansen, Ørjan" (Best format is: last name, first initial*)
21:48:05 <elliott> oerjan: oh
21:48:08 <elliott> aha
21:48:13 <elliott> Ørjan Johansen coauthored with Johan F. AarnesMR2174240 (2006m:28017)
21:48:14 <elliott> Johan F. Aarnes coauthored with Richard V. KadisonMR0240633 (39 #1980)
21:48:14 <elliott> Richard V. Kadison coauthored with Jacques DixmierMR1614553 (99k:01056)
21:48:14 <elliott> Jacques Dixmier coauthored with Paul Erdős1MR0909556 (89a:11040)
21:48:19 <elliott> oerjan: is that correct?
21:48:26 <oerjan> rings a bell :P
21:49:03 <elliott> oerjan: now the problem is, i don't know what i did to make that work :P
21:49:15 <elliott> aha i got you
21:49:29 <elliott> oklopol: sorry, you and oerjan aren't connected according to this thing
21:49:53 <oklopol> does it show a connection from me to Erd�s? am i even there?
21:49:56 <elliott> oerjan: btw you're #1 google result for oerjan
21:50:08 <elliott> oklopol: nope.
21:50:17 <elliott> oklopol: it may be some other Lastname, F* it matches
21:50:21 <oerjan> elliott: i believe using oe is rather quaint these days
21:50:23 <elliott> since it doesn't accept Lastname, Firstname for you.
21:50:45 <elliott> oerjan: unfortunately it's your account on the wrong wiki :D
21:51:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:51:35 <oerjan> elliott: well i get something entirely different with esolang no. 3 and wp no. 4
21:51:48 <elliott> is it still you at #1? :P
21:52:14 <oerjan> no, it's sometone unknown who owns oerjan.com
21:52:17 <oerjan> *-t
21:52:57 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:53:06 <oerjan> elliott: also, iirc i used Johansen, O* to search with.  unless Ø* actually works which i doubt.
21:53:38 <elliott> Johansen, Ø* works but Johansen, Ørjan doesn't.
21:53:58 <oerjan> oklopol: anyway have you collaborated with more than one person?  otherwise just let elliott look up that person.
21:54:59 <oklopol> yeah actually i came up with that like 5 seconds ago
21:55:10 <elliott> yeah, a certain five seconds after oerjan did
21:55:20 <elliott> MR Collaboration Distance = 6
21:55:20 <elliott> Ørjan Johansen coauthored with Johan F. AarnesMR2174240 (2006m:28017)
21:55:20 <elliott> Johan F. Aarnes coauthored with Richard V. KadisonMR0240633 (39 #1980)
21:55:20 <elliott> Richard V. Kadison coauthored with András HajnalMR1614553 (99k:01056)
21:55:20 <elliott> András Hajnal coauthored with Saharon ShelahMR0357194 (50 #9662)
21:55:21 <elliott> Saharon Shelah coauthored with Manfred DrosteMR0804485 (87d:20055)
21:55:23 <elliott> Manfred Droste coauthored with Jarkko KariMR2255549 (2007i:68060)
21:55:26 <elliott> oklopol has oerjan number of at most 7
21:55:40 <oerjan> synchronistically, yesterday ken regan over at godel's lost letter confused me with a different Ørjan Johansen after looking me up on twitter (which i don't use)
21:55:59 <oerjan> there are apparently 3 of them
21:56:05 <oerjan> (At least)
21:56:24 <oklopol> that's a rather large oerjan number : /
21:56:33 <elliott> oklopol: better get collaboratin' with him
21:56:42 <oerjan> oklopol: at least it didn't go all the way to erdos
21:57:42 <oerjan> otoh if your number is 4 then presumably that's not your path to erdős either
21:58:00 <oklopol> there's just one guy with erd�s number 2 in our uni that i know of, and even using him i'd only get 7 :/
21:58:26 <Ngevd> I have never written a paper, with or without a co-author
21:58:28 <Ngevd> :/
21:58:32 <elliott> oklopol: note that it apparently can't find your erdos path :P
21:58:42 <elliott> oh wait
21:58:44 <elliott> it can't find you at all ofc
21:58:50 <elliott> i'll just try JARKKO'S
21:58:54 <oklopol> 3
21:58:55 <elliott> and
21:58:56 <elliott> add one
21:59:02 <oklopol> +1 = 4
21:59:05 <elliott> Jarkko Kari coauthored with Cristopher MooreMR1890808 (2003b:68121)
21:59:05 <elliott> Cristopher Moore coauthored with Leonard J. SchulmanMR2291004
21:59:05 <elliott> Leonard J. Schulman coauthored with Paul Erdős1MR1289067 (95e:52025)
21:59:05 <elliott> yeah
21:59:23 <elliott> oerjan: would you come out of RETIREMENT to collaborate with oklopol, pls say yes
21:59:44 * oerjan sidles away
21:59:54 <oklopol> my colleague made this esolang thingie, maybe oerjan could prove it tc
22:00:29 <elliott> oerjan: I'LL JUST HAVE TO WRITE FANFICTION ABOUT IT THEN
22:00:33 <oklopol> and we could publish it in silly computational universality magazine
22:01:26 <oerjan> unfortunately the words "maybe you should publish this" has been shown to have a strong negative effect on my motivation (see :()^ tcness instance)
22:01:32 <oerjan> *have
22:01:44 <elliott> oerjan: who said that again :P
22:01:46 <oklopol> he already did fibonacci, but we haven't been able to do general lambdas yet
22:01:46 <elliott> was it me
22:01:52 <oerjan> it was ais523
22:02:06 <oklopol> :()^ as a subset of underload?
22:02:06 <oerjan> well maybe not those exact words
22:02:09 <oerjan> yeah
22:02:10 <elliott> oklopol: yeah
22:02:59 <oklopol> oerjan: can you explain it to me so i can publish it?
22:03:16 <oerjan> no.
22:03:19 <oklopol> darn
22:03:22 <elliott> oklopol: yes
22:03:27 <elliott> oklopol: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#Underload_minimization
22:03:31 <oerjan> well, it's on the wiki
22:03:38 <elliott> oklopol: iterate down to "Removal of ! from :!()^ programs"
22:03:50 <elliott> oklopol: by iterate i mean... read
22:04:07 <oklopol> omg ima be a famous
22:04:28 <elliott> oerjan: i love that implementation of ~
22:04:29 <elliott> it's so ugly :D
22:04:43 <oerjan> O KAY
22:05:18 <oerjan> it's also elegant, it uses a subroutine for doing (x)~ with a fixed (but arbitrary) x, twice.
22:06:08 <elliott> heh
22:06:11 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/DoesAnybodyElse/comments/mkc6y/dae_secretly_want_to_see_the_entire_global/
22:06:20 <Phantom_Hoover> I regret reading this; everyone else can regret it too.
22:06:43 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: dae secretly want to see the entire global marshmallow industry start doing intensive charity work
22:06:45 <oerjan> or they can regret something else if they want to </zzo38>
22:07:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: "EDIT: Thank all of you for the massive amount of data I have collected in this psych experiment on herd mentality. My professor will be pleased. Again thank you!"
22:07:04 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, marshmallows for EVERYTHING.
22:07:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Also that was pretty funny.
22:08:01 <Phantom_Hoover> "The most impressive thing about this thread is how everyone who sides with op is getting downvoted. People seem so afraid of change that they're willingly accept every single shit that's going wrong in the world, if only it does not get worse. Can you imagine the power you give the "1%" like its called so eagerly today with this attitude?"
22:08:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Do you even understand infrastructure.
22:08:28 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, is that the "Let's destroy the world economy" thread?
22:08:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
22:09:13 <Phantom_Hoover> On second thoughts, that thread seems to rely on people not understanding how... not fragile, but crucial, the global economy is to their survival.
22:10:03 <Phantom_Hoover> "I publicly hope it will. The alternative is far worse." Billions will die but AT LEAST THE BANKS WILL BE GONE.
22:10:08 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
22:10:33 <SgeoN1> Two of my friends wwould die rather quickly, they need medicine to live
22:10:53 <shachaf> Hey, it's Phantom_Hoover.
22:11:00 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Did you see my exciting new programming language?
22:11:12 <Phantom_Hoover> IS IT A BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE
22:11:14 <elliott> Yes.
22:11:23 <monqy> hi
22:11:27 * Phantom_Hoover leaps at shachaf, brick in hand.
22:11:46 <Phantom_Hoover> SgeoN1, you live in New York, right?
22:12:08 <Phantom_Hoover> So ~a billion miles from the nearest industrial farm?
22:12:09 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Reference implementation: $ tr '12345678' '[]<>-+,.' | bf
22:12:34 * Phantom_Hoover slams brick into shachaf's head, delicately catches brain from other side.
22:12:48 <SgeoN1> Yes to the NY thing, I don't know where farms are
22:12:51 * Phantom_Hoover — OK no that's too far.
22:13:05 <Phantom_Hoover> (I will have to survive on, like, sheep.)
22:13:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:13:55 <SgeoN1> I take it that I could not possibly buy enough nonperishables to survive for a decent amount of time, if I thought that something might happen?
22:14:28 <Ngevd> SgeoN1, not if everyone else is thinking the same thing
22:14:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Well obviously you'd just start eating dirt until you died, so I suppose you'd at least die happy.
22:14:54 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:14:58 <oerjan> wait you get happy from eating dirt?
22:15:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo would.
22:15:14 <oerjan> ah.
22:15:22 <SgeoN1> I would?
22:15:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Well it's everywhere and you just shove a clod of it into your mouth.
22:15:57 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought that was your perfect food.
22:16:07 <Sgeo> lol
22:16:29 <oerjan> it is if you're an earthworm
22:16:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, no, earthworms at least aim for the detritus layer.
22:17:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo would just take any old dirt.
22:18:17 * Phantom_Hoover throws shachaf's brain into elliott's head.
22:18:28 <shachaf> Uh-oh.
22:18:32 <oerjan> eek, you're creating a monster!
22:18:34 <elliott> shachaf: You have to change nicks so I can become you now.
22:18:38 <Ngevd> Phantom_Hoover eats the brains of people who make brainfuck derivatives
22:18:54 <Ngevd> Eventually he will have enough brains to make the ULTIMATE BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE
22:19:00 <oerjan> at least you don't!¤#)/&%/NO CARRIER
22:20:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Ngevd, why would I eat them, they're disgusting.
22:21:48 <shachaf> elliott: I'm in ~100 channels; changing nicks would be too spammy. :-(
22:21:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:23:59 -!- mithridates has joined.
22:24:24 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:24:27 <elliott> `welcome mithridates
22:25:02 <elliott> Oh, right.
22:25:06 <elliott> HackEgo isn't here.
22:25:12 <elliott> mithridates: Sorry, you get the boring non-automated welcome.
22:25:24 <elliott> mithridates: Hi esolangs http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page.
22:25:36 <Sgeo> mithridates is clearly an esolangs!
22:25:39 <Sgeo> (Sorry, had to)
22:26:08 <elliott> mithridates: Sgeo is our resident bot.
22:26:22 <mithridates> what the hell is going on here? are you guys fucking with me?
22:26:22 * Sgeo beeps
22:26:26 -!- lament has joined.
22:26:30 <mithridates> I'm leaving
22:26:32 <lament> bye
22:26:32 <Sgeo> Hi
22:26:33 <elliott> mithridates: What.
22:26:33 <Sgeo> Wait
22:26:54 <Sgeo> mithridates, I'm not a bot, and elliott likes to mess with people sometimes, but
22:27:06 <Sgeo> mithridates, he's not messing with you when he says that this is about esolangs
22:27:07 <lament> mithridates asked me to ban everyone in here
22:27:14 <lament> who do i start with
22:27:19 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:27:20 <elliott> start with mithridates and lament
22:27:24 <lament> okay
22:27:30 <mithridates> yeah do it lament
22:27:32 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:27:37 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o lament.
22:27:38 <Sgeo> Wait what?
22:27:42 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b *!*mithridat@unaffiliated/mithridates.
22:27:46 -!- lament has set channel mode: +b *!*lament@184.71.170.*.
22:27:53 -!- lament has kicked mithridates mithridates.
22:27:56 -!- lament has kicked lament lament.
22:28:02 <elliott> disaster averted
22:28:15 <elliott> Sgeo: are you sure mithridates isn't from #jesus
22:28:18 <elliott> i recall that name.
22:28:28 <Sgeo> I don't see em there
22:28:35 <Sgeo> And don't remember the name
22:28:41 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
22:28:48 <oerjan> <shachaf> elliott: To be fair, -> isn't -- actually, I can't think of any way to be fair. <-- garden path sentence if i ever saw one
22:28:58 <elliott> oerjan: you might want to read the last ~40 lines or so :P
22:29:01 <elliott> before continuing logreading
22:29:05 <elliott> * mithridates (~mithridat@unaffiliated/mithridates) has joined #esoteric
22:29:06 <elliott> onwards
22:29:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
22:29:22 <shachaf> Wait, what happened to lament?
22:29:41 <Sgeo> shachaf, e banned and kicked emself
22:29:41 <elliott> shachaf: Well, the last we heard, lament was denying he knew what this channel was altogether.
22:29:54 <elliott> For a few years before that he only joined to yell at people.
22:30:00 <elliott> So... who knows!
22:30:03 <shachaf> elliott: Are you an op in this channel?
22:30:08 <elliott> No.
22:30:14 <elliott> fizzie, oerjan and ais523 are the active ops.
22:30:23 <elliott> lament is the only banned op, which is quite a distinction.
22:30:36 <ais523> elliott: hmm, did lament remove his own op rights?
22:30:44 <ais523> or just set himself to opped and banned, and leave it that way?
22:30:48 <elliott> ais523: Dunno.
22:30:58 <elliott> They're still there.
22:31:12 * elliott has been dubious of lament's op rights for a while.
22:31:14 <monqy> so he can ban himself again if necessary, clearly
22:31:58 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: you might want to read the last ~40 lines or so :P <-- scary
22:32:13 <SgeoN1> Is he able to unhandy himself?
22:32:21 <SgeoN1> Unban
22:32:35 <SgeoN1> How is unhandy even a word?
22:32:39 <elliott> SgeoN1: he can with chanserv
22:32:45 * elliott asks mithridates what the heck that was, against his better judgement.
22:32:51 <elliott> I do everything against my better judgement.
22:32:57 <elliott> That's why I have a worse judgement to contradict it.
22:33:10 <elliott> <elliott> What was that, anyway.
22:33:10 <elliott> <mithridates> What was that, anyway.
22:33:11 <elliott> <elliott> You took the words right out of my mouth.
22:34:19 <shachaf> You'd be lost for words!
22:34:22 <shachaf> You'd be tongue-tied.
22:34:28 <shachaf> Like a nightingale at a Roman feast.
22:34:35 <elliott> They haven't said anything else. :'(
22:35:01 <shachaf> Like a mute in a monologue.
22:35:31 <elliott> Like an elliott in a /msg with mithridates.
22:35:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:37:14 <ais523> `addquote <elliott> I do everything against my better judgement.  <elliott> That's why I have a worse judgement to contradict it.
22:37:20 <ais523> `quote
22:37:22 <ais523> `quote
22:37:23 <ais523> `quote
22:37:24 <ais523> `quote
22:37:27 <ais523> wait, HackEgo isn't here
22:37:31 <ais523> do I have to do a fifth `quote anyway?
22:37:32 <elliott> lmao
22:37:33 <ais523> `quote
22:37:34 <elliott> yes
22:37:35 <ais523> just to make sure
22:37:41 <elliott> Gregor: FIX IT DAMMIT
22:39:13 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:39:29 <elliott> Sgeo: You fix it.
22:39:56 <SgeoN1> Sure, I'll run it from my computer. That would be fine, right?
22:40:02 <elliott> -r-------- 1 root root 140737486262272 Nov 23 22:39 /proc/kcore
22:40:02 <elliott> Gosh.
22:40:07 <elliott> SgeoN1: If you cloned the FS repo, sure.
22:40:16 <oerjan> wat
22:40:56 <SgeoN1> ...that was a joke
22:41:11 <elliott> SgeoN1: It would be fine, if you got the fshg.
22:41:14 <elliott> oerjan: wat wat
22:41:47 <SgeoN1> So, you'd like to have a bot that disconnects every 5 minutes?
22:42:18 <monqy> who wouldn't
22:42:32 <elliott> SgeoN1: better than one that never disconnects because its not here
22:42:37 <elliott> SgeoN1: what is even up with your connection
22:43:04 <SgeoN1> elliott, not the faintest idea. The wifi in the apartment is fine
22:43:33 <elliott> SgeoN1: It's fine but it keeps disconnecting?
22:44:16 <SgeoN1> Its something with my computer, I mean. Not sure if hardware or softwarr
22:45:31 <elliott> SgeoN1: Have you tried using Linux.
22:45:53 <SgeoN1> I am using Linux.
22:46:15 <elliott> SgeoN1: Have you tried using Windows.
22:46:39 <SgeoN1> Not sure I want to look for a copy of Windows
22:47:03 <elliott> SgeoN1: Have you tried using ... QNX?
22:47:06 <elliott> BeOS?
22:47:09 <elliott> AmigaOS 4?
22:47:35 <SgeoN1> I wish I could try not being ill
22:47:50 <monqy> this would help
22:48:27 <elliott> SgeoN1: I think that's called "getting better"? Have you tried it.
22:51:29 <oerjan> elliott: wat huge core
22:52:21 <elliott> oerjan: it's 2^47 terabytes and iirc 2^48 is the address width of x86-64 or whatever
22:52:30 <elliott> so i guess it's half the address space the kernel cares about or something
22:52:41 <oerjan> ic so very virtual
22:57:15 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
22:57:26 <CakeProphet> ho
22:57:44 <elliott> you got your nick wrong
22:58:34 <elliott> CakeProphet:
22:58:36 -!- calamari has joined.
23:00:33 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:01:11 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
23:01:11 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Changing host).
23:01:11 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
23:01:31 -!- CakeProphet has changed nick to kallisti.
23:01:47 <kallisti> for some reason reconnecting with irssi is completely unintuitive
23:01:48 <elliott> hello kallisti "cakeprophet" kallisti
23:02:05 <elliott> -NickServ- Information on Kallisti (account Kallisti):
23:02:07 <elliott> kallisti: nice uppercase :}
23:02:13 <kallisti> thanks
23:02:17 <elliott> kallisti: by which i mean
23:02:19 <elliott> kallisti: it burns it burns
23:02:29 <kallisti> elliott: eat it
23:02:32 -!- copumpkin has joined.
23:02:37 <elliott> thanks
23:03:53 <oerjan> ken regan pointed me to this which reminds me of evincar's language.  i'm not sure whether it's more or less insane... http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/papers/pdf/PRS01.pdf
23:04:32 <oerjan> at least it's supposedly self-consistent
23:04:50 <kallisti> .....wtf irssi
23:04:54 <kallisti> why is it so difficult to just...
23:04:55 <kallisti> reconnect
23:05:07 <kallisti> without create multiple connections
23:05:13 <elliott> oerjan: which one
23:05:15 <elliott> kallisti: /reconnect?
23:05:22 <kallisti> which
23:05:23 <kallisti> er
23:05:23 <kallisti> yes
23:05:27 <kallisti> that's what I do.
23:05:30 <kallisti> it makes Freenode2 often
23:05:40 <oerjan> elliott: the one with automatic currying or what it was
23:08:02 <oerjan> kallisti: i usually just /disconnect  and then /connect freenode, iirc
23:08:59 <oerjan> usually when there's a huge netsplit and i'm on the wrong side
23:09:10 <kallisti> stupid
23:09:15 <kallisti> you know what I do when there's a netsplit?
23:09:16 <kallisti> nothing.
23:09:17 <kallisti> it's wonderful
23:09:21 <kallisti> I just wait, and then everything is fine.
23:09:27 <kallisti> except for that one.
23:09:33 <kallisti> The Great Netsplit Of Several Hours
23:09:53 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:10:04 <oerjan> well i'm talking "looks like i'm nearly alone on the server" netsplits
23:11:17 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:12:25 <kallisti> elliott: I was thinking bombs would be cool because you could send them into the oribts of planets
23:12:47 <kallisti> but the problem I'm having with orbits is that orbits are probably going to be difficult to create.
23:12:55 <elliott> I dunno about Phantom_Hoover, but I don't think your player should be able to blow up a planet.
23:13:07 <kallisti> how about moons? :P
23:13:17 <elliott> And that's sort of the whole challenge to it; it's not impossible, Phantom_Hoover said he had a fairly easy time of getting into orbits with that JS thing.
23:14:04 <Phantom_Hoover> It... kind of helps that I found out about that from a post on the guy's blog where he implemented it to play around with Hohmann transfers.
23:14:05 <oerjan> http://www.airshipentertainment.com/growfcomic.php?date=20070624
23:14:19 <kallisti> elliott: okay so now you're in orbit. what do you do now?
23:14:23 <kallisti> what was the benefit.
23:14:28 <oerjan> (relevant)
23:14:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You explain why the whole game is basically based around orbits to kallisti.
23:15:25 <Phantom_Hoover> They're the only way to move in a gravity field?
23:16:26 <kallisti> er, so it's not possible to break escape velocity?
23:17:04 <Phantom_Hoover> No, but that's a good way of moving outside a gravity field.
23:17:10 <Phantom_Hoover> FSVO 'in'.
23:17:58 <elliott> kallisti: how do you propose to make things interesting without orbits
23:18:06 <elliott> moving around in a vacuum is not fun or strategic at all
23:18:31 <kallisti> I don't propose that
23:18:43 <elliott> you propose to make things boring? :P
23:18:48 <kallisti> merely curious as to how orbits would make things more interesting besides "weeee circle"
23:19:33 <kallisti> elliott: no, I'm not proposing that planets don't have gravity. that's silly.
23:19:49 <elliott> I... defer to Phantom_Hoover again, because I can't think of any way to explain why complicated orbit systems are interesting other than "they are".
23:19:53 <kallisti> it's more of a question related to gameplay, I suppose.
23:20:58 <kallisti> a gravity-assisted manuever that allows you to travel across the system at a faster rate is an extremely complicated procedure, for example.
23:21:10 <kallisti> at least ones that involve multiple planets
23:21:20 <kallisti> but I suspect even a single planet would be difficult
23:21:56 <elliott> kallisti: The problem is that you're seeing orbits as just a means to the end of going very fast and shooting at things in a vacuum?
23:22:05 <kallisti> it's not something that's going to be easy without say... an automated control system that what NASA uses to do precision manuevers.
23:22:07 <kallisti> elliott: no that's one.
23:22:27 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Just link kallisti to that JS thing so he can plyy with it himself :P
23:22:29 <kallisti> elliott: but yes I'm trying to find means to an end from orbits, as typically games have means to ends blah blah blah
23:22:40 <elliott> s/plyy/play/
23:23:17 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.matthen.com/javascript/gravity.html
23:23:23 <kallisti> I suppose it would be /fun/, sure. I'm not arguing it won't be fun.
23:26:09 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Got a link to that blog post, btw?
23:27:20 <kallisti> hmmm, okay
23:29:58 <Phantom_Hoover> I should try a slingshot on that, actually.
23:31:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Yes good do it
23:32:43 <kallisti> right I forgot that the low-powered thrust makes it easier to control an orbit
23:33:16 -!- myndzi\ has joined.
23:33:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:33:51 <Phantom_Hoover> I managed it, but controlling it is another thing altogether.
23:35:53 -!- myndz\ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:36:15 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Man this blog post is impossible to find.
23:36:16 <kallisti> heh, it's difficult to get into orbit with the fast moving moons.
23:36:26 <Phantom_Hoover> http://blog.matthen.com/page/6
23:36:38 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:37:53 <kallisti> elliott: I remember in gravity well, in deep space, you could become prefectly still
23:37:56 <kallisti> you know, if that's your thing.
23:38:17 <elliott> kallisti: Just turn on the space breaks.
23:38:38 <kallisti> well, kind of...
23:38:47 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Can we have space breaks.
23:38:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
23:38:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: "Today on Twitter I have been talking a little bit about how Edinburgh is pronounced."
23:39:03 <kallisti> so I'm thinking the game would perhaps benefit from multiple maps?
23:39:14 <elliott> kallisti: Maps in what sense?
23:39:25 <kallisti> like a star system / star cluster / whatever scale is the largest map
23:39:38 <kallisti> then map that's nearby and larger scale so that you can aim trajectories and the like
23:40:03 <kallisti> basically so the interface can accomodate precision spaceflight to a degree.
23:40:07 <elliott> Sure. That's another rvival of the what-scale question :P
23:40:24 <kallisti> well I would think /at least/ star system.
23:40:28 <kallisti> >_>
23:40:35 <elliott> Depends how big stars and planets are.
23:41:01 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep
23:41:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:42:05 <kallisti> elliott: how about the stars and planets are normal size but the ship is huge? :P
23:42:17 <elliott> Yees.
23:43:40 <elliott> oerjan: this language is weird
23:44:16 <kallisti> also can you crash into planets and die?
23:44:22 <kallisti> if so I've already died like 20 times now in this JS thing.
23:44:34 <elliott> kallisti: There is collision detection, yes.
23:45:21 <elliott> There's also heat, so good luck with that.
23:46:10 <kallisti> hope the stronger thruster (if it exists) will match escape velocity of some medium-sized planets.
23:46:16 <kallisti> *hopefully
23:47:39 <elliott> Boring?
23:47:55 <elliott> Your ideas keep sounding like "let's remove all the learning curve so that navigation is completely trivial" :P
23:47:59 <kallisti> not as boring as dying by planet collision.
23:48:10 <kallisti> frequently
23:48:14 <kallisti> but okay, we'll see.
23:48:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:49:43 <elliott> oerjan: this thing would make a good esolang
23:49:49 <kallisti> elliott: also powerful thruster != sudden gravity immunity
23:50:05 <kallisti> it's just a mean to move fast suddenly sometimes that the weaker thruster doesn't allow
23:53:15 <kallisti> also gas giants will be tricky without such a thing I imagine.
23:53:28 <kallisti> s/tricky/near impossible to not die at least sometimes/
23:54:54 -!- itidus21 has joined.
23:55:13 <kallisti> `welcome itidus21
23:55:25 <elliott> hackego is down
23:55:28 <elliott> hi itidus21
23:55:29 <kallisti> :(
23:55:36 <kallisti> HELP HOW DO I WELCOME PEOPLE WITHOUT BOTS???
23:56:03 <kallisti> itidus21: list-communication-protocol
23:56:05 <kallisti> uh.....
23:57:11 <Sgeo> I think itidus21 has been here before
23:57:18 <kallisti> no
23:57:19 <kallisti> no way.
23:57:21 <kallisti> unpossible
23:57:23 <kallisti> I refuse to blieve it.
23:57:26 <kallisti> I would recognize him.
23:57:33 * kallisti has perfect memory.
23:57:36 <kallisti> eidetic or whatever.
23:57:40 <Sgeo> The name is familiar, at least
23:57:56 <Sgeo> `log itidus
23:57:58 <Sgeo> BLA
23:58:00 <elliott> does Sgeo really not ermember good ol itidus
23:58:02 <elliott> `quote itidus
23:58:03 <elliott> OH WAIT
23:58:18 <elliott> Sgeo: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/06a2f5c42c24/quotes
23:58:20 <elliott> grep /itidus/
23:58:30 <elliott> actually http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/06a2f5c42c24/quotes
23:58:34 <elliott> since that thing messes up wordwrap
23:58:34 <kallisti> how do u grep without hackego?????
23:58:35 <kallisti> :(
23:58:48 <kallisti> hackego is what I used to think
23:58:51 <kallisti> now I can't think.
23:59:57 <shachaf> kallisti: I wasn't welcomed even *with* bots. :-(