< 1323734848 396502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: doop < 1323735256 511580 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323735540 791996 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-163.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323735555 909247 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7179.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323735556 85772 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-5.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323736049 402231 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323736165 608159 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323736188 176009 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-163.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323736631 683502 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :finish this analogy < 1323736644 994985 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christianity:Windows::Wicca:? < 1323736852 725243 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christianity has many distros < 1323736938 76623 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323737154 951140 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323737187 435092 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1323737493 255932 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323737554 197845 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323737630 949339 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323737877 747870 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yes, true, but ignore that for now. is has the property that (a) the majority of religion-users in the western world use it and (b) it is very much targeted at the lowest common denominator, although there is latent potential for power users as well. < 1323738256 548690 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame you didn't go with Scientology. < 1323738261 237694 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I could finish it so easily. < 1323738279 493022 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :::Scientology:LoseThos < 1323738354 236935 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to know which OS is so esoteric and obscure that only paganism suits it < 1323738378 656026 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to go with OS/2. < 1323738392 266505 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps FreeDOS. < 1323738436 566005 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but, it needs to be an os which claims to be the modern revival of an os which windows brutally crushed < 1323738465 471496 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :An OS/2 remake? < 1323738475 161388 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 is still maintained. < 1323738537 748260 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern Christianity has as many pagan elements as Christian elements < 1323738568 742270 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323739093 790547 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, reddit won't load, i haven't seen that in a while < 1323740185 957737 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about that BeOS remake? < 1323740336 322946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that BeOS really counts as "brutally crushed" in the "existed earlier but then" sense, more in the "tried to get going but then" one. < 1323740398 54679 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Yes, I can understand. The religions are based on older traditions so that includes Christian as well as pagan (for various reasons; you might learn on Wikipedia) < 1323740436 88749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use FreeDOS at a Roman Catholic education center. < 1323740855 42386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323740871 156400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:05:54: i want to know which OS is so esoteric and obscure that only paganism suits it < 1323740874 404841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paganism is "so esoteric and obscure"? < 1323740915 41216 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT TOTALLY IS < 1323740964 228646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:06:18: I'm inclined to go with OS/2. < 1323740971 544480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: For some reason I want to say that OS/2 is Zoroastrianism. < 1323740974 151874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know little about both. < 1323740994 451034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:36:25: How about that BeOS remake? < 1323741015 225434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's called Haiku, dude, there's pretty much no chance it's not Buddhism? < 1323741332 147122 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. < 1323741402 409594 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. < 1323741410 838273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquoet A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. < 1323741412 760936 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: addquoet: not found < 1323741416 228976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. < 1323741418 479503 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :762) A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. < 1323741425 189305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haiku - "I can't believe it's not but.. Buddha". < 1323741432 53300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: You should write a book and call it Everything I Know About Wicca I Learned From Scooby Doo. < 1323741484 263458 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323741563 129296 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any operating system connected to to some earlier system that was hunted down in a manner similar to a witch hunt? < 1323741604 900969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: All I can think of is if SCO suceeded in DESTROYING LINUX and then someone started developing it again decades later. < 1323741610 278910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That didn't happen though. (YET?) < 1323741621 829108 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I heard about wiccans form other places, but figured it was mostly generic pagan stuff. < 1323741628 887943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think operating systems are hunted a lot. < 1323741645 638584 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess I thought a lot of pagan stuff was connected to witches. < 1323741650 636053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're too boring, and there's a huge barrier to entry so obviously illegal stuff doesn't tend to happen. < 1323741665 218085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: Isn't "witch" just generic pagan stuff these days? :p < 1323741696 466457 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know, it's not the kind of tihng I keep up with. < 1323741709 69676 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is actually a witchcraft-themed linix, though. < 1323741770 224074 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it by looking up "Linux grimoire". < 1323741834 437710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just brings up Source Mage for me. < 1323741840 860415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that counts as "witchcraft-themed". < 1323741844 184556 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323741854 635563 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings friends. < 1323741868 395095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome thatmentat < 1323741871 139280 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1323741883 367117 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should point out that in some muslim states you can _still_ get executed for presumed witchcraft, i saw one mention from saudi arabia in a paper today < 1323741885 212827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a `welcoming machine of ruthless efficiency < 1323741905 249432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: We sure are unifying the two definitions of esoteric here. < 1323741905 622576 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it doens't seem like it's themed after ancient Persian scholars. < 1323741919 758436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And apparently in Canada it is illegal to charge money for "witchcraft" stuff or something like that..... < 1323741953 691907 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In that case, you can probably unify a lot of stuff in certain ways for certain purposes < 1323741955 563069 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a chat room for programming languages? < 1323741955 833191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=1_Chat_Line&curid=4885&diff=26035&oldid=26034 one of our spambots just tweaked the colours it's using < 1323741963 541229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"naw, i think red is better here" < 1323741966 418577 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wrt that i read in britain (until recently?) it was not illegal to _be_ a witch but it was illegal to _pretend_ to be one < 1323741972 67416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: Yes. Even if it doesn't seem like it right now. < 1323741976 831561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are you here for that, or the other kind of esoteric?) < 1323741979 561668 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-that < 1323741985 57454 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1323741988 88021 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-*-that < 1323741991 744706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well they might burn someone by mistake < 1323742005 614962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: Yes, it is a chat room for esoteric programming but we discuss a lot of things here anyways < 1323742005 791754 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came for the second. I haven't the patience to learn programming. < 1323742019 411954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: you probably won't find it on freenode, then < 1323742022 361959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly technology-oriented < 1323742072 530873 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is mostly tech oriented? < 1323742078 609866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode, the IRC network you are on < 1323742087 777388 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1323742103 265840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you have a specific question (regardless of topic), you might ask. And then quit if you do not get an answer (unless it is a question about esoteric programming in which case stay) < 1323742157 453826 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: alas we have never learned of a good irc channel to recommend for those who come here expecting the other interpretation of esoteric < 1323742184 856571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we should just make one and let them all trickle in, it'll be more active than this place within a year :P < 1323742192 511274 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1323742192 787790 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323742194 404239 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do that thing < 1323742201 543612 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use recommendations of other irc places though, even if not specifically esoterical. < 1323742207 145433 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized that if you define a monad transformer and/or comonad transformer then you can easily define return and extract as well the definition will always the be same: return = lift . return; extract = extract . lower; < 1323742216 394875 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well those guys who started #philosophy tried to do that, didn't they? how is it working? < 1323742223 510963 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :send people to irc.dal.net #esoteric < 1323742226 203012 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1323742229 390493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not #philosophy, is it? < 1323742233 19118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: Oh, is that active? < 1323742241 462064 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a year ago i think < 1323742244 381309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i thought it was _something_ like that... < 1323742245 863913 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than not existing < 1323742253 891972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Users on #Esoteric: elliott thatmentat QueenAqua @^roshi marduk666 @Venus666 VenusSatanas_ Trollfood ami- Cocytus hippl^ < 1323742255 973997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cocytus again! < 1323742263 452583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that guy just join #esoteric on every server everywhere < 1323742276 484804 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8ACB8.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323742282 210069 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that list looks promising, at least :P < 1323742283 146428 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an IRC server too, however it has no channels what you want probably and hardly anyone is in there < 1323742289 212303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: well, glad you've found somewhere < 1323742296 107338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: <^roshi> thing is there are several streams of alchemy < 1323742298 187170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks good :P < 1323742312 533006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lurks. < 1323742328 359949 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about alchemy? < 1323742330 191810 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us know if anything above and beyond the usual pale of ridiculousness falls out < 1323742390 264856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: thatmentat is still here, you know! :P < 1323742427 380459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about alchemy? < 1323742461 5807 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's your point? < 1323742484 500406 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Zeroth to prove spontaneous human combustion wins | This is a programming channel; if you are looking for the other kind of esoteric you might try #esoteric on irc.dal.net | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323742505 244387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey i was going to _ask_ them first < 1323742514 653880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Zeroth to prove spontaneous human combustion wins | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323742515 353473 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well we can remove it again < 1323742533 180861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK that is good. But still we discuss a various a lot of things in here. < 1323742552 714176 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just joined ones that looked like they had people in them. < 1323742555 292482 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, figure out, should that message be there or not? Maybe it makes too long? Or other reason? < 1323742567 77635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION asks them < 1323742568 754634 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was curious. < 1323742625 568821 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting response. I didn't think he would reject the idea elliott. < 1323742639 975584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was out of left field :P < 1323742640 894163 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But note, once someone accessed this channel, and then quit, and then I had something about astrology and then they could not have their question answered because they missed it. But still, notice that we have more mathematical points of view so they might not have understood the answer anyways (maybe). < 1323742667 21842 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : What are you talking about alchemy? <-- elliott was quoting an example message from the other #esoteric channel at dalnet < 1323742705 85061 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they refused? < 1323742713 425680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, the guy misunderstood what i said < 1323742715 926845 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323742737 226811 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "several streams of alchemy" mean anyways? Alchemy is what they did before they had proper science, they could do it like that they did not know things better or have better equipment to know better. Now we have chemistry < 1323742775 641039 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that there are several basic models for Alchemy I believe. < 1323742807 677477 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alchemy as was being discussed goes beyond simply trying to manipulate materials. < 1323742861 305805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net." >wisdom/esoteric < 1323742863 563630 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323742867 532256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1323742870 59354 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net. < 1323742904 200102 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes that way might be good idea instead of topic message, I supppose. < 1323742924 46341 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you can make a shortcut for those kinds of informations message. < 1323742932 839381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that can successfully survive our constant topic changes is the log link :P < 1323742952 867582 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as i understand, alchemy sometimes has a strong spiritual component aside from the chemistry - basically you are supposed to transform yourself at the same time as you are learning how to transform materials < 1323742990 799309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when put like that, it sounds like you could possibly even make a modern version based on actual chemistry < 1323743001 701421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm afraid not: "It must never be supposed that the practice of alchemy consists only in the exercise of the mind, will, and imagination, or that the products obtained are imaginary and intangible or invisible to mortal eyes." < 1323743011 206387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a link posted in #esoteric while i was there :P < 1323743022 104162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you still need the physical materials, though. < 1323743037 431907 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "only" does not mean that it doesn't also involve that < 1323743042 921143 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, sometimes they did do spiritual things based on some ideas of alchemy. < 1323743046 928283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1323743048 683710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :must never be supposed < 1323743054 473435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i completely negated that meaning < 1323743059 986174 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it is "spiritual alchemy" instead of real alchemy. < 1323743095 57266 :xxDarkProphetxx!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi gaiz < 1323743113 654139 :xxDarkProphetxx!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1323743115 984797 :xxDarkProphetxx!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :kallisti < 1323743139 21941 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we have science so we don't need alchemy (except for the purpose of making up new alloys, sometimes, at least according to some opinions). < 1323743140 466098 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's /too/ much irony. I can't handle it) < 1323743231 417499 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: okay so I'm working on an IRC bot that is intended to assist tabletop RPGing over IRC. < 1323743232 828056 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever the discussion in here, it often involves some scientific and mathematical stuff, sometimes. Because this is how the people in this channel are, in general. < 1323743253 884410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes I was doing so, too. I think one IRC server has a GS command to do that too < 1323743277 357752 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: should I use my native WoD terminology for concepts, or should I use D&D, or is there some standard terminology that isn't D&D? < 1323743293 874045 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people say "gamemaster" and "campaign" where I would say "storyteller" and "chronicle" I think. < 1323743305 473116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I say "referee" in my opinion, at least. < 1323743316 617378 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D uses dungeon master sometimes, doesn't it? < 1323743318 290201 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... no I don't like that. :P < 1323743318 605754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For dice, just use 1d6+2 or whatever. < 1323743319 857121 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1323743330 20498 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: game or dungeon master works. I think gamemaster is typically preferred. < 1323743340 349232 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: D&D usually calls "dungeon master" but you could use different terms. I prefer "referee" but use whatever you prefer. < 1323743341 103416 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I honestly don't know much about D&D culture < 1323743353 791866 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't play that game. < 1323743364 869382 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes "storyteller" < 1323743365 364256 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1323743404 55544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Read the D&D recordings I wrote and learn about how I play the game, at least. < 1323743411 698607 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a single game being a story, and a set of stories with recurring characters and themes being a chronicle. < 1323743462 687052 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, that is a sensible view. I consider the game (story) consisting of several sessions, which have both session breaks and chapter breaks, which might or might not coincide. < 1323743483 674868 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some IRC server, if you use the command "GS ROLL 1d6" for 1d6 roll dice, and so on. You can optionally include a channel afterward to copy the results to the named channel < 1323743499 841920 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plans to incorporate a little bit more than a simple dice roller, since he already has that. < 1323743514 394178 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on implementing dice rollers for each system, perhaps with the ability to track stats. < 1323743563 906563 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can say: !roll Dexterity+Acrobatics+2 diff 6 < 1323743564 291371 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 3d6 + 1d20 < 1323743564 531096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d6 + 1d20 => 27 < 1323743565 94313 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1323743584 554908 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, lambdabot already has < 1323743601 663501 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work well with shadowrun and WoD systems < 1323743607 491687 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you roll a large number of dice against a target number < 1323743617 89461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1000d6 < 1323743618 176605 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000d6 => 3527 < 1323743677 875675 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of a different system: referee rolls all the dice by hand; players don't, however some common text adventure abbreviations should be understood by the referee < 1323743696 537506 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well yes I was planning to have options to allow the referee to roll everything < 1323743712 154882 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!roll with < 1323743713 845434 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1323743730 195526 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the complexity is warranted though, for the average tabletop gamer. < 1323743731 539643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, I mean by hand. Like, not on the IRC. < 1323743758 342359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 8d8 < 1323743758 588470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8d8 => 28 < 1323743772 985663 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it slightly similar to a text adventure game. (Text adventure game are the closest kind of computer games to a role playing games, in my opinion) < 1323743830 741825 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh yes, I play that way as well. < 1323744151 156962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a program that runs on the referee's computer, with a separate window and the IRC as well; it is connected to the IRC server so that someone can use PRIVMSG whatever :HELP and so on, and make file transfer of the data if wanted, in the computer data format, and then possibly to DVI to print as well < 1323744196 615744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Commands other than HELP and STATUS would not be accepted if you are not currently in a game session, I guess) < 1323744241 993725 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everyone makes synchronized local copy of game data, with the main data on the referee's computer < 1323744259 107826 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :While private data does not have to go into the program at all < 1323744357 818459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a channel in my IRC server for RPG sessions, and I might be able to add server scripts for a few of things you do in there, if I want to do so. < 1323744461 352103 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was going to make the entire thing public, but with access restrictions. < 1323744480 456234 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course rolls can be done in private via privmsg < 1323744487 925932 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also entering stats < 1323744499 370436 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a storyteller for a certain chronicle would have full access to every characters information. < 1323744540 960098 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do all commands by private; results can be copied to the channel if the game is in session. And then have data files access < 1323744545 960089 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would also need to implement an authentication system to make sure that nicks are identified.  < 1323744555 728664 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't figured out how to do that with the bot framework I'm using in Perl. < 1323744561 749438 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That is, for IRC servers that have that. < 1323744563 176628 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might have to rewrite the low-level bits. < 1323744598 38156 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are some differences between servers too. < 1323744644 501949 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes he was still coding for that WoD MUD < 1323744650 628656 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to do so many awesome things with their dice roller. < 1323744693 741892 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like having a huge weapon table to automatically handle damage rolls on firearms and melee weapons < 1323744729 14928 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server scripting language for my IRC is called "Cthulhu.194" and this is an example file: http://sprunge.us/SNPD < 1323744731 256512 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd basically have to know even less about the system than you already did in order to play. < 1323744742 579994 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god what is this. lol < 1323744813 477913 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's called Cthulhu for a reason < 1323744831 292761 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The WEBIRC command was originally built in to the server program. I removed that feature and then added a script to implement it instead. A script can have multiple command names to access it; this is defined in the configuration file) < 1323744836 201051 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... can't tell if it's postfix or prefix. < 1323744838 454768 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to change. < 1323744867 993366 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it is because I implemented the SUMMON command that no other IRC has. And then someone in this channel mentioned SUMMON CTHULHU and they don't like that or whatever, so I called it that. < 1323744989 2175 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Actually it is all prefix, although a few things act like they are postfix. < 1323745215 632577 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is another script (currently active in my server; however you do not have permission to access it): http://sprunge.us/RAjB < 1323745220 890135 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The memory manager I wrote for class has O(n) access time :( < 1323745273 173347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro < 1323745439 500698 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I thought creating a weapons table for a dice roller would be a huge pain, BUT < 1323745467 248075 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I've got a little better at scraping stuff with perl, I can just steal something online and convert it into a desired format. < 1323745516 704130 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of manually writing "Colt Anaconda difficulty 6, damage 6, rate 2, clip 6, range 35, Colt Detective Special difficulty 6, damage 4, rate 4, ..." < 1323745524 132932 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then eventually killing myself < 1323745554 72716 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write the numbers separated by commas and a semicolon at the end of each record, is another way < 1323745558 374426 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I go through common models of revolvers, shotguns, semi-automatic pistols, machine guns, machine pistols, rifles, assault rifles, battle rifles, ... < 1323745680 467655 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even weapon data on fun stuff like jackhammers, industrial drills, war hammers, tridents, chainsaws, and crossbows < 1323745695 31025 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because.. I'm totally going to bring a trident to a gun fight. that's my character's preference. < 1323745716 55316 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: O, OK. But then it is not a proper gun fight, isn't it? < 1323745721 584776 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not. < 1323745746 761467 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if you're playing as vampires, the rules actually make melee weapons feasible, as bullets are nowhere near as effective against vampires. < 1323745835 211333 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, vampire+chainsaw could be a viable option against a squishy mortal + small pistol < 1323745888 717219 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attention self: It is NOT ok for the starting address of each partition to be the number of the partition < 1323745918 887352 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1323746026 587708 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why did you < 1323746057 585570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the character data that I recorded for D&D games if you want to see some information about it in case it helps you to write a program to store these kind of data (mine is D&D 3.5 edition; but make the program acceptable for many systems including but not limited to this one) < 1323746059 315258 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname, I didn't deliberately. It's a bug that I somehow didn't notice when testing yesterday < 1323746069 145180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have other questions about the system you can ask that too < 1323746093 161537 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38! < 1323746113 391507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: ? < 1323746118 916665 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm going to work on shadowrun and world of darkness first as these are the systems I primarily enjoy, though it's difficult to find anyone who has an interest in those things. < 1323746120 76190 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of "information"? < 1323746159 192557 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: basically each system will have mostly unique rules so I'm not going to generalize anything. Each dice roller will use its own special syntax. < 1323746180 80538 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each system will have different kinds of data in character tables, etc < 1323746190 775177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: OK, do that first, then. But see what I have afterward, you might be able to make a more generalized system if necessary. I can also give a little bit of information about the Icosahedral RPG system since it uses a few special requirements for character data storage < 1323746193 434582 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had .Count() instead of .Sum() < 1323746213 81887 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey may i see your ad&d work zzo38? < 1323746217 484380 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well some of the library code will be generalized. < 1323746227 36613 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, that is what I was about to suggest. < 1323746237 853599 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: to avoid tedium. The idea is that you could specify what a character sheet contains and the "create character" command would just refer to that in order to generate a blank sheet. < 1323746261 507038 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex < 1323746261 804536 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and since it's all Perl I just let dynamic typing do its thing. < 1323746273 410321 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1323746305 215179 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: It is a game story. If you want spells/feats/whatever I invented, I can show you those things too < 1323746337 966999 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That was my idea with the Icochash program I wrote; however, I abandoned that and might later rewrite it, but not in PHP next time! Same thing with Icoruma, I might rewrite it in a faster programming language than PHP next time. < 1323746351 179760 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why would you even consider PHP < 1323746363 718931 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea.. actally yes.. i'm planning to write a irc-bot as a supporting device for pen & paper games over the net < 1323746363 895680 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also why is performance important? < 1323746369 996471 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lol < 1323746375 674989 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MUCH CODE DUPLICATION < 1323746406 831337 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is you still need a game master and a story teller < 1323746412 939349 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and real roleplaying < 1323746414 248813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: PHP is not very good but I have used it before. Next time I will use C or Haskell. And performance is good because when there are a large number of files it becomes slow < 1323746437 197423 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you just load everything into memory. < 1323746461 687955 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but zzo38 your link doesnt resolve in chrome < 1323746463 362617 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Even if loading everything into memory, it is slow because it still has to load the files and parse them. < 1323746489 24722 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is tex like text in (la)tex? < 1323746490 417237 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at startup sure. or is this a web thing? < 1323746493 884426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Try adding "view-source:" to the front; that might work (I know it works in Mozilla; I don't know whether Chrome does or not) < 1323746508 696463 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, it is a standalone program, actually. < 1323746527 979196 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well then parsing only adds to startup overhead. < 1323746531 267322 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then everything is fine? < 1323746531 610814 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :k lets do it that way then.. one need them all these days..*dumidum < 1323746532 357750 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: LaTeX is a format for TeX; this file is Plain TeX. < 1323746537 945698 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1323746539 637915 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: what language do you want to use? < 1323746544 813747 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott update < 1323746558 235509 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes but it must reload every time you modify the input files in order to recompile them, and that makes it very slow < 1323746571 382854 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :php or c# or sth in betwenn.. maybe all.. -> web services < 1323746573 254535 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1323746573 430980 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1323746576 565595 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I feel this intermission is a bit rushed, but nonetheless awesome to read. < 1323746593 750418 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: I thought it was an IRC bot and not a web-thing? < 1323746607 76011 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc just as endpoint < 1323746613 28226 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to players < 1323746628 90048 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: oh, okay. < 1323746634 70807 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a bad approach actually. < 1323746656 653973 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to MUDs though so I have absolutely no problems with a marginally complicated command interface. < 1323746660 999896 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a web interface would be convenient though. < 1323746677 991643 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im really not that far into how to implement things..and implementation will be trivial at all < 1323746688 551957 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should not be a web interface; it should be MUD. But possibly add a Java web interface as an alternative. < 1323746690 126 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+not (?) < 1323746699 82767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some systems, such as FICS, do this) < 1323746714 238788 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its kind of operation research < 1323746725 426839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323746727 924993 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands simplify things for the implementation. Normal people will be scared though because OH MY GOD I HAVE TO LEARN SYNTAX. < 1323746754 810214 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323746766 532086 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if players could extend the world its actors actions and stuff by writing some kind of easy readable xmlcode < 1323746768 655779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Then do what I specified; use MUD and then make a Java frontend as an alternative interface to use? < 1323746780 956040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: It doesn't have to be XML, necessarily. < 1323746788 694800 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesnt < 1323746792 217106 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i mentioned < 1323746815 320141 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: are you familiar with MOO? < 1323746827 245885 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to make random access in his memory manager O(1) < 1323746843 767784 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im into designing the game itself.. + try to invent something revolutionary new and motivational < 1323746844 391569 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Do you like the document I posted, now? Can you read it now? (You could just download it and open in a text editor, if necessary) < 1323746845 472479 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: isn't that kind of redundant? < 1323746853 364374 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :random access typically implies O(1) I thought. < 1323746854 401957 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly < 1323746855 258172 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1323746861 783842 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's O(n) or anything like that it's no longer random access. < 1323746888 35956 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea Icosahedral RPG too, is the new game; however, it is not a computer game. < 1323746925 113277 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes MUDs were not quickly dying out < 1323746935 654120 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are a good medium for multiplayer roleplaying games I feel. < 1323746957 892452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here are two examples of Icoruma input files: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/icoruma/intro.irm http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/icoruma/spells.irm < 1323746961 517193 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely think they could use a modern interface, while still retaining the text-based medium. < 1323746964 579187 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a mud years ago which I believe still exists.. it had a huge map of middle earth and various towns and quests < 1323746969 412576 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but incorporating some mixed media. < 1323746981 826109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Then use MUDs if you like that way. I think just use the same protocol as the old way < 1323746992 201941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=1_Chat_Line&curid=4885&diff=26035&oldid=26034 < 1323747003 286462 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm kind of talking about a separate project < 1323747006 865694 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to incorporate some mixed media, I think. < 1323747007 795844 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways I almost got banned because I made a program that gave me a graphical map and could automatically navigate between towns < 1323747009 856274 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my IRC bot is much simpler than a MUD < 1323747027 106709 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh already bene noted < 1323747029 273121 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1323747037 897800 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: those are fairly common in MUD clients. You don't even need to make one. < 1323747047 658876 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: this was a long time ago < 1323747053 404494 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: OK. Still, I think a MUD should be made the same way as the old way, possibly support alternative front-ends if they would help but allow any MUD client to continue working < 1323747059 899798 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: also it's generally impossible to detect if you put a reasonable delay between moves. < 1323747066 299473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a simple dumb MUD client should be acceptable. < 1323747079 352934 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's what I did lol < 1323747089 739425 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes zzo38 at least i can grab it..will examine things later..im far behind tired < 1323747092 138333 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was thinking from the perspective of refreshing the community with new people. < 1323747093 839779 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to sleep < 1323747117 722750 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, add on new signals that are turned on when the client indicates support < 1323747120 632121 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :far beyond < 1323747124 639397 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: though even with interface improvements most people are so attached to their big budget graphical games that they probably wouldn't adjust well to the text-based format. < 1323747130 133142 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it added features too, where I could have virtual parties that existed.. the game didn't handle them, but we could track each other on the map via special private messages < 1323747136 238647 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes that's generally how it would work. < 1323747144 727201 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: was a lot of fun < 1323747180 73783 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: plenty of existing custom MUD clients are implemented over telnet and allow general clients. < 1323747184 187459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a dumb client supporting no signals other than text receive and command send, should still be acceptable. But also make the new clients with many new options and so on < 1323747222 398289 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one occasionaly problem is that many MUD clients are not actually legitimate telnet clients < 1323747234 535080 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented this as a modem program actually... had to dial up to my unix shell account in order to telnet < 1323747255 585021 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ms-dos of course, lol < 1323747257 964185 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a huge problem. You just send them something telnety and if they don't respond with something telnety then you just treat them like a basic socket and dump text (maybe with ANSI codes if the option is turned on since most clients support those) < 1323747288 653287 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was actually layers of hacks.. oh well.. it worked and it was fun < 1323747289 954756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, yes, if it is a telnet then you should handle backspacing and those things at the server too. < 1323747295 531153 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1323747297 165383 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are actually some "mud protocols" that exist that allow mixed media and the like, but they're generally bad and not well supported. < 1323747304 739525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it is a dumb linemode client, then use that. < 1323747341 894457 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I remember back in the day that some bbses supported extra codes where if you had the right client you'd get a graphical gui < 1323747351 415787 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was lame overall tho < 1323747376 964407 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just made it slower and didn't really add much since it was just showing the same info < 1323747412 676989 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's see how xfce compares against lxde.. bbl < 1323747442 410812 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323747927 310172 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323748363 6492 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two lists of words < 1323748396 225350 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A and B, split by newlines. what's the fastest way in bash to display the words in A that aren't in B? < 1323748647 946301 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memory manager is demented! Yay! < 1323748657 13289 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably due to the hastily conceived "random access" idea < 1323748663 892891 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION found the solution to his problem as well: use perl instead of bash < 1323748671 954415 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, poor implementation thereof < 1323748673 130282 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :was gonna say that :p < 1323748691 766362 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sometimes I wonder why I even try to use bash. < 1323748704 42457 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the misguided notion that I'm going to be faster with it if I get the hang of it. < 1323748707 686438 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'M NEVER GOING TO UNDERSTAND BASH < 1323748733 644293 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: probably bad elliott influence ;P < 1323748749 706943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1323748750 119073 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster to write? or faster computed? < 1323748753 975004 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write. < 1323748769 832027 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm all about the BREAKNECK SPEED of my simple automated tasks. < 1323748795 224982 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want them to be UNNOTICEABLE FRACTIONS OF SECONDS FASTER < 1323748809 219721 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icoruma has a few features I would like to see in other programming languages, such as wildcard includes. I don't know of other programming languages that have that. < 1323748823 290895 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :show < 1323748831 211994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1323748913 681445 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see: certain HackEgo commands i rewrote < 1323748962 486855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1323749038 243799 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea of what exactly a "mana" is in Icosahedral RPG could also be used in other games too if you want to. < 1323749219 659774 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Among other things, it is a commutative monoid, with five primes.) < 1323749669 782003 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, in the XOR monoid, True is prime. Is it? < 1323749919 938463 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... I think, my professor's default fixed partition memory manager allocates an unneeded partition < 1323750807 340945 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti, update < 1323750826 975417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1323750953 277782 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323751660 263762 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323753158 790529 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1323753186 146379 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1323753265 437809 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-17.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323753301 843509 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1323754390 560589 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the property of applicatives for which this applies: () <$ x = pure () for any x of this applicative type < 1323754464 425136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sounds like the equivalent of commutative monads < 1323754480 626276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly equivalent to (f <$> a <*> b) = (flip f <$> b <*> a), I think < 1323754622 468676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, is that what commutative monads means? Your condition seems to me like commutative applicative? < 1323754666 158955 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323754685 830624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, yes :P < 1323754695 571216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :commutative monad is stronger i think < 1323754702 934693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a >>= \x -> b >>= \y -> f x y = b >>= \y -> a >>= \x -> f x y < 1323754703 887392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1323754711 182599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323754715 95102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { a <- mb; b <- mb; f a b } < 1323754715 581071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := < 1323754719 283486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { b <- mb; a <- ma; f a b } < 1323754723 274877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easier to read :P < 1323754868 184741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that similar but after join? < 1323754983 796152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323755637 875127 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`style < 1323755640 316145 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: style: not found < 1323755641 786106 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1323755641 962675 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1323755644 386813 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1323755644 563282 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1323755645 201650 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |   |   |    `\o/´    |   |   |    `\o/´    |   |   | < 1323755645 378023 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |\ /|  /|      |      |\ /`\ /|      |     /<   >\ /'\ < 1323755645 554606 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :             (_|¯´¯|_)                /´\ < 1323755645 554826 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                    (_| |_) < 1323759051 578478 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1323759549 122895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can a single string draw the edge of a mobius strip? < 1323759559 506234 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems kind of wild to imagine < 1323759584 244283 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it just has to float in space a bit < 1323759642 857146 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you intend to do mb twice in your first part of the equation? < 1323759656 765537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323759671 118907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x <- mx was the intent < 1323759671 902853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all x < 1323759693 769441 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go food < 1323759736 776607 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1323759942 296671 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323759942 658997 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1323759942 835652 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323759996 379339 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323760117 449716 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard < 1323760133 894487 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially you, over-zealous log-reader < 1323760140 548252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323760191 118583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched the tintin movie today < 1323760678 542989 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a proper monad? newtype ReadthisT f x = ReadthisT { runReadthisT :: f () -> f x }; lift = ReadthisT . const; fmap f = ReadthisT . (fmap f .) . runReadthisT; join (ReadthisT x) = ReadthisT (\y -> x y >>= ($ (() <$ (y >> x y))) . runReadthisT); < 1323761518 778986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323761921 137960 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let collatz = takeWhile (/=1) . iterate c; c n = if even n then n `div` 2 else 3*n+1 in collatz 150 < 1323761922 716865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [150,75,226,113,340,170,85,256,128,64,32,16,8,4,2] < 1323762011 418870 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (succ . head . tail) . iterate (drop 2) . map length . group . fix $ show < 1323762016 53630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1323762022 424608 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 . map (succ . head . tail) . iterate (drop 2) . map length . group . fix $ show < 1323762025 157661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,8,16,32] < 1323762032 587613 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1323762037 17245 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1323762055 34239 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think it's the best way to compute the powers of 2 < 1323762070 568969 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no obviously my powerset construction is the best. :P < 1323762078 374831 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lengths of powersets. < 1323762094 482940 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though really that's probably way better because there's a fix and I have no clue what it's doing as a result. < 1323762102 169371 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fix still kind of baffles me sometimes. < 1323762109 497067 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm fixing show < 1323762113 276084 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323762127 588906 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so infinite string of... something. < 1323762131 211112 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix show < 1323762132 163515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... < 1323762135 732821 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1323762136 99227 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323762137 356539 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotes < 1323762336 73750 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twood = length . filterM (const [True, False]) . flip replicate undefined in map twood [1..10] < 1323762337 963678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024] < 1323762399 381057 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: you can't deny its elegance. < 1323762411 596108 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1323762420 156532 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but look how much faster yours is than mine < 1323762429 113012 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an added benefit! < 1323762433 167232 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even get up to 10 < 1323762434 61863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid speed at all costs < 1323762438 75104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell motto < 1323762439 78266 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :before lambdabot craps out on me < 1323762442 159065 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly < 1323762453 428732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: well what can we expect from an agda programmer like you < 1323762456 968435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHBURGNRJKGNR < 1323762466 599686 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a geometric series? you can't expect it to be fast < 1323762471 214175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once this agda guy tried to burn me < 1323762472 747007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1323762478 965189 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what's the runtime on mine... O(2^n)??? < 1323762482 532697 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION burns elliott  < 1323762482 754863 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's forgetting something < 1323762484 461506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his irc client froze up calculating the natural number representing his irc line < 1323762494 137661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he tried to type more than 10 characters < 1323762494 313770 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah, that should be it < 1323762495 11876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is < 1323762495 555574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323762496 714072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agda is slow < 1323762505 795574 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? < 1323762506 799322 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: see look the runtime is the same as the function. how elegant. < 1323762530 217571 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 10 . map (succ . head . tail) . iterate (drop 2) . map length . group . fix $ show < 1323762531 848950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024] < 1323762535 306765 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I can get to 10 < 1323762540 559247 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably the same time complexity actually < 1323762586 597061 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f = length . flip replicate undefined in map f [1..] < 1323762588 371670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1323762599 36265 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look! a linear function that runs in linear time < 1323762600 734592 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSS < 1323762641 921074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like functions that describe their own complexity < 1323762642 686941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like fib < 1323762658 878387 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that may be a characteristic of any function that uses the list representation of natural numbers? < 1323762665 525591 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary < 1323762735 207294 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no nevermind what am I saying. < 1323762780 965244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1323762782 675385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323762783 588371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window < 1323762894 135072 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1323762900 205185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1323762911 993105 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing where numbers came out of fix show < 1323762912 169349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323762919 918183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix show < 1323762920 894908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... < 1323762921 750767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers < 1323762955 703263 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 3 7 15 < 1323763056 141916 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see the > fix show, just copumpkin's take 10 . map etc thing < 1323763176 745913 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I still reading Station V3 < 1323763203 82263 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have a history of reading things that are terrible < 1323763206 180825 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats that is it good hi sgeo < 1323763210 75498 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that cliparty universe < 1323763218 40271 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love clip art < 1323763219 904296 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, even I think it's stale. < 1323763227 665660 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the cliparty universe. Station V3) < 1323763248 878644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/comics/20111213sv3.gif < 1323763249 893743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1323763280 274352 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1323763284 418755 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont < 1323763285 159063 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it < 1323763300 763488 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely see how it might be gotten < 1323763301 141009 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1323763302 456320 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1323763307 575366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/comics/20111212sv3.gif < 1323763309 310437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1323763318 552768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/comics/20111211sv3.gif < 1323763319 622794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1323763331 664101 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...................... < 1323763343 84005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these might be the least funny gifs i have viewed with my eyes in like < 1323763344 127190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :years < 1323763344 303128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1323763348 631164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1323763352 922562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a picture of wooden flooring < 1323763358 505525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it elicits absolutely no reaction < 1323763359 378699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1323763375 782164 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some funny ones < 1323763376 967071 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually laughed because of how terribly impossibly bad it was. < 1323763381 568052 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all in the past < 1323763387 650119 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i laughed, possibly for the same reason as kallisti < 1323763421 707170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: whats the worst webcomic < 1323763422 616061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your < 1323763423 291110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :opinion < 1323763432 880895 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man there are so many bad webcomics i dont even know about < 1323763444 481928 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :excitement < 1323763455 615572 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it allowed to be in the Station V3 family? < 1323763461 868234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a family < 1323763467 748250 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is a family. < 1323763471 458388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1323763503 157957 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a happy family < 1323763509 708864 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they frends < 1323763521 568466 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://silenceinthedarknessonq16.comicostrich.com/ < 1323763534 662020 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good comic < 1323763550 672196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :silence in the darkness on q16 < 1323763557 815624 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start at the beginning, it's actually not that bad < 1323763558 120244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://silenceinthedarknessonq16.comicostrich.com/comic.php?cdate=20111211 < 1323763559 333488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1323763560 28614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is < 1323763563 780712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they all like this < 1323763571 812214 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing < 1323763576 157794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i went to the beginning < 1323763578 977578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still bad < 1323763582 15214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please advise < 1323763598 335419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how old is < 1323763599 613596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author of this < 1323763603 817284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've spent uh < 1323763607 221592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 years < 1323763607 752898 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://z7.comicostrich.com/ < 1323763608 294408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of their life < 1323763609 823413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing these things < 1323763617 791828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they must be like < 1323763625 631737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know < 1323763632 355443 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linton (on V3) is humorous < 1323763651 371266 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry sgeo i do not trust your opinions < 1323763668 653128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you read v3 < 1323763674 891139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forum.comicostrich.com/viewtopic.php?t=418&sid=ceaf354a4066a147d94ca3c93d76ce27 < 1323763680 658457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what htis is but why does it have 21 pages < 1323763694 479400 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20030616.html < 1323763703 737719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads < 1323763703 951479 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what would happen if randall munroe and andrew hussie met < 1323763705 775575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's dinosaur comic < 1323763706 896274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is therapy < 1323763710 849613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reading station v3 < 1323763711 952823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are all < 1323763713 345553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to join me < 1323763719 662156 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dinosaur comic is bad too < 1323763722 852794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rumormongers are the blue things < 1323763723 964605 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually < 1323763727 518879 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti.................... < 1323763729 434799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: look at kallisti's wrong opinions < 1323763732 230120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at him just < 1323763733 860940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :casually having them < 1323763758 896580 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think dinosaur comics is too fast-paced. The scenery changes too rapidly. < 1323763774 900021 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell what's going on. < 1323763775 76037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your jokes cannot < 1323763776 894754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make you a good person < 1323763804 133276 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond redemption < 1323763810 176737 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kallisti way of life < 1323763825 881162 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20050319.html < 1323763830 600932 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one's almost good < 1323763839 687220 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm laughing at these. I'm finding them funny < 1323763843 323812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1323763843 876541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1323763845 33571 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sgeo ni < 1323763845 451603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not < 1323763846 694536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost good < 1323763848 87032 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean < 1323763848 303164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not even < 1323763859 599473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1323763860 364689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not < 1323763861 445131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :healthy < 1323763863 172062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even remotely anywhere near something resembling good < 1323763863 349795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to laugh at this stuff < 1323763869 460478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accept < 1323763870 483680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tastes < 1323763871 825310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are subjective < 1323763875 240203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think you are permanently < 1323763877 710005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :damaging < 1323763879 401246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your soul < 1323763895 413796 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gave me a soul?!? < 1323763896 347187 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1323763900 403576 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1323763904 733504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n;o < 1323763913 366090 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: though in its defense dinosaur comics makes excellent use of foreshadowing < 1323763927 428620 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that moment when you realize the previous panel hinted at the events of the next < 1323763929 144555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if T-Rex canonically crushes a new house every single day. < 1323763934 473405 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat rewarding. < 1323763971 436068 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the many joys of dinosaur comics < 1323763972 851771 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the many joys of life < 1323763984 952147 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20050328.html < 1323764022 505350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1323764027 807917 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these comics remind me of you, sgeo < 1323764035 25051 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1323764046 79329 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's either that or it continually goes back in time < 1323764048 504508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have your personality < 1323764050 427689 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it's a glimpse of different universes. < 1323764050 634282 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps < 1323764052 224067 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have theirs < 1323764069 944685 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered you and stationv3 may be soulmates < 1323764084 989634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there's chronology < 1323764094 604940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah these comics are very Sgeo < 1323764105 685004 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so then... he has to crush a house every time. < 1323764111 315782 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONSISTENCY < 1323764121 434018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well there's no conclusive PROOF he crushes the house < 1323764128 337385 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1323764138 163600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1 < 1323764143 566486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we see that he doesn't stomp on the girl at least in comic 1 < 1323764143 898947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1323764147 768423 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHY DON'T YOU SAY THAT TO PAST ELLIOT INSTEAD ASSHOLE < 1323764153 374883 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20050415.html < 1323764158 74432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TT < 1323764192 683974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thats < 1323764193 515439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not funny < 1323764200 462715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am TRYING to laugh < 1323764248 236861 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even a joke with these? < 1323764250 135562 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell. < 1323764260 639401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that one was supposed to have a joke, at least < 1323764267 347295 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you explain it to me? < 1323764271 377858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: was there a station v2 < 1323764272 750967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the station < 1323764273 711292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't safe < 1323764274 895577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the joke < 1323764281 237277 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what? < 1323764284 696490 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323764294 394179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20030506.html < 1323764296 926427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 < 1323764297 862127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comic 1 < 1323764317 711344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/links.html < 1323764320 661765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :list of comics to avoid reading < 1323764324 875816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ebb.comicostrich.com/ < 1323764325 919857 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even comic 1 < 1323764329 911997 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that not like judging Homestuck by 1901? < 1323764330 849052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YES ANOTHER SPINOFF FUCK YES GOD YES! < 1323764332 861900 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is < 1323764351 240599 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude you're going to have to explain all of the jokes to all of these. < 1323764367 579590 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plot. < 1323764368 596616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, if homestuck was a terrible gag-a-day strip with a dozen spinoffs and also no because we've also looked at like fifty other ones by now and they are all equally bad < 1323764368 892352 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION iIT IS YOUR DUTY < 1323764370 797145 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's plotlines < 1323764382 291553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Sgeo's using dots at the end of sentences i think we're disliking station v3 a little too intensely < 1323764389 864580 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gripping station v3 plotlines < 1323764400 962276 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with enchanting station v3 characters < 1323764401 497101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 plotline one: station... v4??? < 1323764405 88758 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two characters who were previously mute become able to talk < 1323764414 501640 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :enchanting < 1323764416 894962 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all of reality changed. < 1323764417 332327 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gripping < 1323764419 585670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ehcanthed < 1323764423 119632 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you gripped < 1323764426 474407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im < 1323764428 820243 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm GRIPPED < 1323764431 186107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gripped i dont think ill ever be able to be ungripped < 1323764433 260070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :permanent grippeling < 1323764434 20340 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES IT GRIPED ME < 1323764439 931464 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gripe < 1323764441 673333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are all < 1323764444 97948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gripped together < 1323764451 349648 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: gripe with me < 1323764451 595532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forum.comicostrich.com/viewtopic.php?t=11&sid=ceaf354a4066a147d94ca3c93d76ce27 < 1323764455 923530 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 frendship < 1323764475 601169 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: not the only ship in station v3 < 1323764479 831303 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-punchline- < 1323764489 451426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are these forums active!!! < 1323764494 699201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1323764500 372405 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's Prentice? < 1323764507 549979 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Prentis < 1323764520 485785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1323764523 412212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expecting me to know the answer to this < 1323764578 335222 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott resident station v3 expert < 1323764585 789640 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mere minutes he has surpassed even sgeo < 1323764591 206881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the robot guy < 1323764592 997617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is called floyed < 1323764597 456679 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floyd < 1323764601 421028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :floyde < 1323764605 860349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are two goerges??? < 1323764615 506637 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linton is the idiot security officer < 1323764620 204384 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And same species as the pirates < 1323764621 676148 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323764623 3702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there nonidiots < 1323764623 459257 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1323764629 340818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goerg < 1323764661 416128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"station v3" -- georg < 1323764665 428616 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323764668 619080 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blue things on the planet are called rumormongers, and for some reason XChat thinks that rumormongers is spelled correctly. < 1323764677 161922 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323764679 228016 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1323764681 653122 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not recall adding rumormongers to the dictionary < 1323764696 703314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise < 1323764700 352802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rumormonger < 1323764701 839308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a word < 1323764705 848786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside of this incredibly shitty comic < 1323764715 265722 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I do (seconds before you told me) < 1323764732 451395 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowledge is power < 1323764741 112609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-keanu reves < 1323764748 529284 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :France is a meme. < 1323764755 674018 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hysterical < 1323764913 348403 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for good Linton comics < 1323764918 835974 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1323764966 890481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stationv3.com/d/20071009.html < 1323764987 532980 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1323764990 403534 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because < 1323764991 54578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he < 1323764993 296765 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1323765016 260842 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo i think you got the wrong comic < 1323765017 678942 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't good < 1323765018 954949 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is crap < 1323765027 993743 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People in this channel really enjoy things that they don't enjoy, don't they. < 1323765036 195167 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323765039 8647 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I do < 1323765048 260794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is laughing insanely right now < 1323765098 525014 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, this (not what I linked) was a good arc < 1323765265 299487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323765266 787195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't < 1323765291 198406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: i cant handle any more station v3 < 1323765295 80110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1323765352 12411 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thats a pretty awful comic strip < 1323765364 866205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that particular one... 2007 10 09 < 1323765370 401754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont mean they're all necessarily bad < 1323765393 629240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, they are < 1323765439 500526 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20071011.html < 1323765506 53764 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats really devastatingly bad.. < 1323765515 575517 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 quality < 1323765519 957914 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure if it's just the mood i'm in < 1323765579 695951 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20080901.html < 1323765612 515536 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1323765634 922651 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they make sense if you read a whole bunch of them.. like very context-dependant < 1323765658 700169 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do, I think < 1323765687 165819 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plot gets repetitive though. How many times can you destroy the universe and have it be restored from backup? < 1323765702 451593 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(canned laughter) < 1323765743 848439 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20080908.html < 1323765879 445025 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO. MORE. < 1323765882 718587 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST NOT CLICK < 1323765887 536063 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's great < 1323765896 386583 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323765904 659653 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1323765922 100248 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a way about it < 1323765939 148629 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many more of us will it kill < 1323765957 221753 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a rumor that it won't kill any more of us. < 1323765974 686711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered you may already be dead < 1323765989 25126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not until you asked. < 1323766048 992105 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, actually, yes... i have been led into some superstitious beliefs on that subject < 1323766250 393376 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stationv3.com/d/20050809.html < 1323766281 368698 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1323766325 519764 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stationv3.com/d/20040709.html < 1323766344 504039 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you finding these < 1323766373 676431 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OhNoRobot < 1323766430 963607 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stationv3.com/d/20040402.html < 1323766480 268060 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you finding these < 1323766485 889970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323766499 347926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: OK, I have a really stupid build system idea, you get to tell me why it doesn't work. < 1323766505 901607 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323766533 939019 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION failed to see elliott's quit message until now < 1323766544 668201 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what you missed: More Station V3 < 1323766551 414542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1323766560 216845 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was great stuff < 1323766582 379569 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm choosing badly, and just selecting random ones will have higher probability of good comics < 1323766614 293455 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t randomR < 1323766616 557453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a g. (Random a, RandomGen g) => (a, a) -> g -> (a, g) < 1323766617 420282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1323766619 533642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no possible way < 1323766621 997119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this comic could be salvaged < 1323766647 552242 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestuck might suck if someone tried to present random panels at you < 1323766672 81868 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who am I kidding. The reason I brought up Station V3 in the first place is that I had no idea why I kept it in my rss reader < 1323766673 251962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this badly Sgeo < 1323766675 103499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this badly < 1323766700 472800 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be good < 1323766703 156359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like homestuck's first 100 panels over and over again would be about six billion times better than a single station v3 strip < 1323766708 772999 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to clense your mind from station v3http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5937032/1/Grab_a_boob_day < 1323766710 285402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will < 1323766712 434542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take back my opinions Sgeo < 1323766716 401068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can link me one (1) good strip < 1323766739 30667 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, do the Linton strips I linked count as good? < 1323766769 949065 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323766776 902151 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i have decided i like them. < 1323766787 351541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323766790 963102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1323766791 860244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1323766974 479834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why itidus21 ;_; < 1323767015 757311 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3, the worst existential crisis yet < 1323767016 415918 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i could like any graphic which is non-static combined with any grammatical piece of text < 1323767053 7020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1323767054 198547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're static < 1323767057 922194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre not animated.... < 1323767061 727854 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean uhh < 1323767085 265258 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any graphic which is a non-random signal < 1323767086 337727 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell with a comic as alive, endearing, enthralling, graipping, enchanting, as station v3 < 1323767097 928055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so garipping < 1323767112 994916 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I want to set a breakpoint in gdb for an address that doesn't exist until some point in runtime. < 1323767114 890202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant as in a tv-static < 1323767122 45373 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I do that. < 1323767135 602803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:41:42: (canned laughter) < 1323767137 834159 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know what static means in relation to a tv channel with an unrecognized signal < 1323767139 274764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: god i wish i could can laughter < 1323767139 451052 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aren't you a gdb expert? < 1323767154 659998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My gdb knowledge is set args ... \n start \n cont \n bt \n quit < 1323767171 621071 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you know gdb --args ./foo bar baz? < 1323767180 857756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because Deewiant told me, but then I forgot it again./ < 1323767201 67704 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to debug hs-plugins code. < 1323767224 201635 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least gdb disables ASLR. < 1323767246 775261 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20060204.html < 1323767253 158915 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the address is deterministic (or seems to be), but I can't set a breakpoint at it straight away, because the code is not loaded yet. < 1323767277 395076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20040710.html < 1323767278 351665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1323767289 42990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is this you trying to link a good one < 1323767329 383225 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the comic's I've linked are attempts to find a good one < 1323767332 313651 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :comics < 1323767333 950508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1323767334 796628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1323767336 299829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1323767337 356283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good work < 1323767363 606072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two thumbs up < 1323767371 873748 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I suck at finding < 1323767374 806711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd give you more, but two is all I have. < 1323767456 49618 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of thumbs and comics, I made a comic a real long time ago < 1323767485 513801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it better than station v3 < 1323767490 240067 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so, yes < 1323767490 439390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could use a better comic than station v3 right now < 1323767519 806303 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/diner.png < 1323767536 478355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than station v3 < 1323767538 295178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the peppers < 1323767538 777711 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Station Z7? < 1323767547 49657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :( < 1323767602 182273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: are they peppers in panel 1 and 2 and you just can't see them < 1323767608 385895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did he become ppeppeperp < 1323767610 292376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that smily < 1323767611 291369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unrelated < 1323767612 184656 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is pepper < 1323767613 228984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to other characters < 1323767614 253264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1323767618 540441 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the Station V3 encyclopedia < 1323767629 770377 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a < 1323767630 626429 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that < 1323767631 123868 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1323767631 972012 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1323767643 100688 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page < 1323767646 105566 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much of a thing < 1323767654 759324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not spammed < 1323767656 881874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is our wiki spammed < 1323767658 766169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of this < 1323767667 110462 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Allpages < 1323767667 968752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are there edits this month < 1323767732 915742 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, SBAHJ apparently updated < 1323767748 387864 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1323767768 917587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than station v3 < 1323767796 920760 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"phhpppbbbbbthb" - better than station v3 < 1323767809 371646 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :":'(" - station v3 < 1323767840 414541 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not sorry" - better than station v3 < 1323767876 803013 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo are nay of these station v3 wiki pages good < 1323767881 941625 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don < 1323767890 128477 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many choices I don't know which to pick < 1323767891 862302 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I didn't even know there was a wiki until now < 1323767914 838996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/wiki/index.php?title=Station_V3_%28comic_strip%29 < 1323767932 549639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tom_Truszkowski < 1323767938 823722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he's a programmer < 1323767940 838076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Explains Things < 1323767964 974958 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought all webcomic authors could program. < 1323767979 677897 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a requirement. < 1323767993 308426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Station Q16 is the main station in the comic strip Silence in the Darkness on Q16 The station has had a power failure sometime before the first strip and is still in the dark. This may be because the station only exists within a rumormongers mind. < 1323767994 334517 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he has disabilitys, is it bad to make fun of stations v3..... < 1323768012 202442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his disability: writing station v3 < 1323768019 126092 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1323768113 146296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy what does the reverse text say < 1323768114 322581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your comic < 1323768115 672006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im too lazy < 1323768131 496387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doug's "dougalicious" diner < 1323768132 203454 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doug's dougilicious < 1323768134 283661 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's dougalicious" < 1323768168 874138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dougalicious in my heart < 1323768187 102115 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im worse at writing dialogue than tom t. < 1323768207 630973 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1323768218 827511 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :snickers < 1323768371 360083 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "hello snail" "hello tree" "how are you doing today?" "oh just fine. what about you, how are you doing?" "i am also fine" "i frankly harbor apathetic feelings towards your current state of well being" "is that so?" "it is so" "well ok then" "good" ) < 1323768387 523430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than station v3 < 1323768404 690155 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :harbor -- tree -- arbor is an accidental pun < 1323768626 903217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im inspired < 1323769139 497956 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Station V3 + SBaHJ? < 1323769153 935158 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323769192 288564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323769368 174924 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1323769371 472927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323769374 773624 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323769385 545512 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Station Zzz... < 1323769391 327703 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323769509 831606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :station bad < 1323769850 624887 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1323770924 520419 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323771480 792188 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323773478 489040 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323773740 869416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323775119 571862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5 is sufficient for avoiding random collisions on non-malicious input, right? < 1323775154 504179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, and relatedly, are VHDL identifiers allowed to be long enough to fit an entire md5 hash inside them? < 1323775309 645972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but why not go for SHA-1? < 1323775321 882560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis only 32 more bits < 1323775333 342641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5's in the OCaml standard libraries, SHA1 isn't < 1323775351 944137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1323775354 381559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a better standard library < 1323775382 662255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: googling doesn't show up any obvious limits on identifier name < 1323775385 17069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1323775403 587302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1323775406 348178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can pack it into base 62, at least < 1323775430 174141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll be 28 at most (27 + 1 byte prefix to avoid digit as first character) < 1323775453 794472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf, you're not allowed two underlines in a row in a vhdl identifier < 1323775454 327747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but I don't really want to if there's no reason < 1323775458 381434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can't end with underlines < 1323775466 887740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or start, for that matter) < 1323775468 17893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? that is an important limitation for my project < 1323775468 986193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1323775471 252783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/underline/underscore/g < 1323775473 472932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to escape them, in that case < 1323775481 965572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is? wtf are you doing < 1323775486 409145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "But VHDL also supports extended identifiers, enclosed by backslashes, which can contain any graphic ISO Latin-1 character (including backslashes if doubled)." < 1323775507 650799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Latin-1/? < 1323775512 943523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, umm, I don't get it < 1323775517 666645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "any byte" < 1323775526 463521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, I got it for you :) < 1323775529 364041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1323775536 372201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, 32 of the possible values of a byte aren't graphic in Latin-1 < 1323775539 114810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (identc == '\\') append(identifier, getchar()) < 1323775541 701854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, hmm < 1323775543 442220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extended_indentifier ::= \graphic_character { graphic_character } \ < 1323775549 304410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess VHDL is just defined in terms of Latin-1 because old < 1323775562 212634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they presumably think control characters in identifiers is ridiculous < 1323775578 71604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is ridiculous < 1323775588 995351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, so is much of VHDL, I guess < 1323775614 781281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what I'm trying to do, is to translate variable names from a source program into variable names in the resulting VHDL, whilst mangling them as little as possible < 1323775621 3803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's easy to see which corresponds to which < 1323775646 832319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the source language doesn't have any arbitrary rules about double underscores < 1323775658 797996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you considered implementing your module layer in not vhdl... < 1323775675 437289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define some intermediate language, and have the linker translate it to vhdl < 1323775680 692703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all at once < 1323775683 979212 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 65 of possible values of byte aren't graphic in Latin-1; 0..31 and 127..159. < 1323775696 55079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh right, I forgot 127 < 1323775704 520469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, screwed up multiplying 32 by 2 < 1323775706 691291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, this is for name mangling from a source language < 1323775710 10930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was for adding module prefixes < 1323775711 37191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1323775721 595962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, name mangling from a source language < 1323775742 956768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the module prefixes are where the md5 stuff comes in < 1323775758 209956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL has namespacing, but I need to make sure that the namespaces don't have the same names as each other, or it'd just be a huge mess < 1323775760 691286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suggest just mangling everything other than [a-zA-Z0-9] into _xNN_ < 1323775762 638778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where NN is the byte value < 1323775765 944785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming there's no Unicode involved < 1323775775 713245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think OCaml is dark-ages enough for it presumably not to be < 1323775798 310163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the source language isn't OCaml < 1323775804 959005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't say it was. < 1323775818 789433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment, it uses the same identifier rules as pre-Unicode-era C < 1323775829 708332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the length restrictions < 1323775830 152559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm saying that I'm very sceptical OCaml does Unicode in anything vaguely approximating out of the box. < 1323775836 514247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1323775977 119134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, is it wrong to want to write the project in OCaml+Perl? < 1323775995 561489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite a nice mix of languages, as their strengths complement each other nicely < 1323776059 486792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Complaining about your language lock-in will only cause me to mock OCaml more :) < 1323776068 968688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I have a language lockin < 1323776082 698805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rewrite the whole thing in Anarchy if it wasn't vaporware < 1323776084 653517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If your alternative is OCaml+Perl, you have no alternative. < 1323776164 887931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you dislike about OCaml, by the way? < 1323776173 565963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to mentally work out what its bad points are < 1323776182 318935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it definitely has some, but I have trouble putting a finger on them < 1323776210 275006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: For one, it's essentially stuck in 2002 < 1323776221 928159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that may well be valid < 1323776236 420381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right: it doesn't really have typeclasses < 1323776237 628096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a reputation for speed, but that's mostly in single-threaded tight loops, it doesn't really have a concurrency story at all, which is ridiculous < 1323776261 19180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its standard library is weirdly inconsistent and incomplete (the fact that a library exists just to add all the things you forgot to the standard library is telling...). < 1323776264 494032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, you can't add "methods" to other classes < 1323776270 466649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, which one's that? < 1323776272 328130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, lack of typeclasses or something similarly useful is painful. < 1323776277 976922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Batteries (Included) < 1323776293 605869 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323776294 721774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think that Pervasives seems a little too large < 1323776299 808391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I don't get why it has I/O in < 1323776324 699819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't like the syntax much (Standard ML's is nicer), and the fact that it has multiple sort-of-object-systems is just ridiculous design. < 1323776348 636697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I just saw exception Exit looking at the Pervasives docs < 1323776353 487840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type system could also do with doing a bit less weak. < 1323776354 965340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an exception provided for user use, and not used by the library < 1323776364 629093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more subjectively: I'd rather it be pure and lazy, but, uh, the language I want OCaml to be already exists. < 1323776370 157491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, the user can (and frequently does) trivially define exception types < 1323776375 398838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh < 1323776382 546619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sounds like a relic from before you could do that to me :P < 1323776387 62480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1323776394 944898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, Exit can't carry a payload < 1323776397 952227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh! Another thing I don't like about OCaml: THEY IMPLEMENTED PRINTF IN THE COMPILER < 1323776401 548043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make it reasonably useless for that purpose < 1323776403 282476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINTF LITERALLY HAS SPECIAL COMPILER SUPPORT < 1323776405 378552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE TYPE SYSTEM < 1323776418 606927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? that's ridiculous < 1323776466 899946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1323776483 661931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't type printf in OCaml even with the dynamically-typed way Haskell does it, since that relies on overloading < 1323776499 725768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: check out the type of printf, basically the "string literal" format you give to it? < 1323776501 918641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a string literal at all < 1323776507 346973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a type-carrying format value < 1323776515 549751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(printf ) is just special-cased < 1323776523 372951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think you can pass a variable format at all, that's the only way you can call it < 1323776531 16560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy and heretical way to do printf: make it take all its arguments as strings < 1323776550 550321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that doesn't help, it's variadic < 1323776554 246399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need it to take a list of strings < 1323776558 985168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I meant < 1323776559 170558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point it becomes a really weird syntax for concat < 1323776560 274450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323776580 420652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I meant it'd parse the strings back into the original arguments < 1323776603 447102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1323776609 820217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd do printf "%2.3g" ["0.0000142"] < 1323776623 877720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1323776631 679458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323776662 527129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, another ocaml complaint: bignums are awkward (although i never used them myself, admittedly) < 1323776665 290030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing that gets me about OCaml's standard library is its naming < 1323776673 831323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :List.hd, List.tl, List.rev, List.length < 1323776687 154311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but they have their own operator set (of course) and you can't use integer literals with them, so I'm pretty sure I'm right) < 1323776694 200914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, ew < 1323776708 151114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and List.append is also Pervasives.(@) < 1323776714 718378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, Exit is to exit the program, I think < 1323776717 512292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I didn't know about for ages because I was looking in the wrong module < 1323776720 385790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it has a top-level handler that just exit(0)s < 1323776725 344284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323776729 326162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that's a two-line wrapper < 1323776750 820717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try … with Exit -> () < 1323776789 634768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :val incr : int ref -> unit < 1323776791 4183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Increment the integer contained in the given reference. Equivalent to fun r -> r := succ !r. < 1323776801 364475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is making me feel so much better about how crufty the Prelude is < 1323776804 133552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that even in the standard library? < 1323776839 765325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not an entirely useless operation, but it's reasonably uncommon, and it's almost as short to write r := !r + 1, and you could define it yourself trivially if you needed to < 1323776850 608966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh yeah, strings are their own type and not an instantiation of some sequence type too < 1323776854 264483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes so much sense!! < 1323776885 663957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does make sense, in a way; the internal representation is completely different < 1323776895 102839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "of some sequence type" < 1323776904 435725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are certainly an instantiation of a more general sequence type < 1323776908 419661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in OCaml's case, probably unboxed arrays < 1323776912 909069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a list interface < 1323776923 749504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, not quite, unboxed null-terminated arrays < 1323776936 868118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly haskell ByteString has this flaw too, but there's an effort to define ByteString as Vector Word8s) < 1323776940 939574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what?! < 1323776947 594096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OCaml uses null-terminated strings? < 1323776955 243357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it stores the length too < 1323776958 823139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1323776968 45931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the null terminator's there so that they can be passed to C functions unchanged, or something < 1323776990 749046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and to make them useless for storing binary data! < 1323776994 420920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the defining feature of OCaml strings is that you can't change their length < 1323777019 646981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even in an impure language I can't think of a decent argument for making strings mutable < 1323777023 596634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even /Python/ has immutable strings < 1323777028 933825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here: earlier towakeperiod I was trying to write a handler that stored every character read < 1323777049 440251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me quote to you the types involved in ocaml printf < 1323777051 406792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd) format4 = ('a, 'b, 'c, 'c, 'c, 'd) format6 < 1323777051 586075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Format strings have a general and highly polymorphic type ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6. Type format6 is built in. The two simplified types, format and format4 below are included for backward compatibility with earlier releases of Objective Caml. 'a is the type of the parameters of the format, 'b is the type of the first argument given to %a and %t printing functions, 'c is the type of the argument transmitted to the first argument of "kprintf" < 1323777051 586260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-style functions, 'd is the result type for the "scanf"-style functions, 'e is the type of the receiver function for the "scanf"-style functions, 'f is the result type for the "printf"-style function. < 1323777052 377710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type ('a, 'b, 'c) format = ('a, 'b, 'c, 'c) format4 < 1323777054 390528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :val string_of_format : ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6 -> string < 1323777056 419256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converts a format string into a string. < 1323777058 385509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :val format_of_string : ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6 -> ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6 < 1323777060 390660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :format_of_string s returns a format string read from the string literal s. < 1323777062 395213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :val (^^) : ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6 -> < 1323777063 790343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, suppose you're doing getc in a loop, and you want to store the entire file read < 1323777064 397319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ('f, 'b, 'c, 'e, 'g, 'h) format6 -> ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'g, 'h) format6 < 1323777066 399596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f1 ^^ f2 catenates formats f1 and f2. The result is a format that accepts arguments from f1, then arguments from f2. < 1323777081 858829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have the page open in w3m right now, no real reason to quote it < 1323777131 946273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I wanted it to be O(n), not O(n^2) < 1323777138 139957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of interest, how do you do that in Haskell? < 1323777154 991335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it wouldn't be the same as how I eventually did it in OCaml; the result was slightly lower-level than C < 1323777160 211921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because OCaml doesn't have a realloc equivalent < 1323777185 476837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to do what was effectively malloc + memmove (luckily no explicit free required as it's GCed) < 1323777203 57187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/then/, I had to allocate another string when I was finished, in order to trim it down to size < 1323777363 599116 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323777363 981340 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1323777364 159513 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323777388 873987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wonders what the top Google result is for "search engine optimization" < 1323777476 645545 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323777496 135666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the top paid result is from www.seoconsult.com; the first nonpaid result is Wikipedia, and the second www.searchengineoptimisation.org, followed by www.searchengineoptimisation.co.uk < 1323777525 653612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the lesson is, that if you really want to win an SEO war against people who are as cutthroat as you are, make the domain name match the search query exactly < 1323777589 165075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, indeed; I changed the query to "search optimisation engine", and now the winning non-Wikipedia nonpaid result is on the site www.searchengineoptimising.com < 1323777605 96717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :Search optimisation engine | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323777679 720202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you asked a question < 1323777692 49708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically, suppose you're doing getc in a loop, and you want to store the entire file read < 1323777692 422978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, I wanted it to be O(n), not O(n^2) < 1323777692 603480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : out of interest, how do you do that in Haskell? < 1323777723 50150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slurp :: Handle -> IO String; slurp h = do { eof <- hIsEOF h; if eof then return "" else (:) <$> getChar <*> slurp h } < 1323777750 47969 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323777786 127256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's for linked-list strings, though < 1323777803 596257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I presume youw ant it for flat-byte-array type things? < 1323777805 305664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you want < 1323778098 165260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, s/getChar/hGetChar h/ < 1323778111 806217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in which case, an obvious strategy is just s/hGetChar h/B.hGet h 8192/ and then apply B.concat to the result of it all < 1323778150 540150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual implementation of B.hGetContents says: < 1323778158 140823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This function reads chunks at a time, doubling the chunksize on each read. The final buffer is then realloced to the appropriate size. For files > half of available memory, this may lead to memory exhaustion. Consider using readFile in this case." < 1323778194 866050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :readFile is clever; it just asks the OS how big the file is, then does one big B.hGet of that size < 1323778565 874117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :( < 1323780253 809176 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323780808 654714 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323780819 639656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot! < 1323780819 836728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1323781290 363541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo Phantom_Hoover < 1323781302 865693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hamlo. < 1323781305 215026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hamlo < 1323781347 533018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is there a shorter way to write {struct foo *bar = malloc(sizeof(struct foo)); memcpy(bar, &foo, sizeof(struct foo));} < 1323781545 69458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"struct foo *bar = malloc(sizeof *bar);" is a classical way to write the malloc sorta-type-safely; "*bar = foo" is a shorter way to write the memcpy, if you don't mind letting the compiler decide how to do it, and that some padding bytes may not get moved if it doesn't want to. < 1323781698 240829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo *bar = g_memdup(&foo, sizeof foo); if you want to be all glib about it. :p < 1323781809 690296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: glib is the relevant scenario since it's mcmap :P < 1323781817 346613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I just rewrote it as a malloc plus assignments, so oh well. < 1323781848 724080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you mind much if I make a directory for map code? It's just that map_flat.c and map_surface.c and map_cross.c and map_iso.c seems a bit ridiculous. < 1323781872 501275 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to. < 1323781898 598759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most excellente. < 1323782323 777463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was at a seminar, I'm back now < 1323782338 426658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably have understood it better than most of the people there; I managed to follow it eventually < 1323782356 40627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh; what was it about? < 1323782389 254220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :containers and comonads < 1323782416 773540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, it defined an extra structure on containers, then showed that containers with that structure were all comonads, and all containers that were also comonads had that structure < 1323782426 52490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what definition of container? < 1323782432 624545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we ended up concluding that List actually worked more naturally as a comonad than as a monad < 1323782442 997872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists aren't comonadic < 1323782447 539822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have [a] -> a < 1323782452 230807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonempty lists are though < 1323782453 794938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, nonempty lists < 1323782461 414049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323782487 633197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition's that containers have a set of shapes, each shape has its own set of positions < 1323782515 48450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that the fact that List is a comonad isn't too useful for actual programming, though < 1323782609 393316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, (=>>) is \xs f -> map f (tails xs) < 1323782617 32398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems useful, in theory < 1323782622 876989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement (a very slow) scanl with it < 1323782667 195049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was defined in terms of unreturn and unflatten < 1323782685 335391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that (=>>) looks like a reasonable definition on that basis < 1323782696 594782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *extract and duplicate < 1323782709 244126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=>>) is just flip extend, it's the analogy of (>>=) < 1323782715 22606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where extend f = fmap f . duplicate < 1323782727 238291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate is like join, extend is like flip (>>=) < 1323782763 789855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the thing about general definitions like monads and comonads is that there are all sorts of plausible names for the operations < 1323782784 887755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "This function reads chunks at a time, doubling the chunksize on each read. The final buffer is then realloced to the appropriate size. For files > half of available memory, this may lead to memory exhaustion. Consider using readFile in this case." <-- my OCaml code did that but manually < 1323782806 191714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, it'd have been simpler to read everything into memory first, then parse from memory < 1323782810 182182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, the problem is that there's no plausible name for return < 1323782818 920795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :return doesn't make any sense, it's just trying to look vaguely like C < 1323782829 182644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure sort of makes sense but not really < 1323782849 813892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is meaningful but really bland and unevocative < 1323782850 260512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than parse from disk and hook the parser with a hook that builds up a copy of what it parsed in memory < 1323782857 256193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wrap"? < 1323782866 596749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrap's worse than any of those < 1323782877 701721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :promotes the container view (fallacy) of monads < 1323782889 207072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas pure promotes the computation view (fallacy) :/) < 1323782914 217573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computation view is pretty much a special case < 1323782933 635205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323782938 496078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of containers are monads < 1323782944 381439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of computations are monads < 1323782951 595651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but describing monads as either is very wrong and misleading < 1323782960 391928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a "special case" any more than Maybe is a special case of Monad < 1323782964 84242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but I meant that computations all fit into a subset of monads < 1323782964 372636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not, it just has an instance < 1323782972 201595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that have something in common < 1323782979 234204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a little hard to say what < 1323782980 640673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, OK; "computation" isn't used as something with a precise definition here < 1323782985 228162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1323782988 926742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead something people analogise to to try and understand monads < 1323782992 736049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't work < 1323783001 910311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. State and IO fit into that < 1323783008 106441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [] doesn't < 1323783017 667116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, [] is nondeterministic computation :P) < 1323783021 82747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually have a reasonably computationy view of List < 1323783027 903917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Maybe, fwiw < 1323783033 869389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I just cba to think of a better example off the top of my head < 1323783038 695124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computation view isn't as bad as the container view < 1323783038 970142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, which view would you say Identity falls into? < 1323783042 687167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which insists that an (m a) /contains/ an a < 1323783047 664208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a genuinely useful monad < 1323783054 529399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and talks about (>>=) "unwrapping" the value < 1323783059 138631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just Not Even Wrong < 1323783065 29596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is? < 1323783068 300749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only as the base of a transformer stack < 1323783074 277278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope, it handles taint < 1323783096 325198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, OK < 1323783102 624617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I doubt the monad part is that useful < 1323783115 151645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative seems as far as you'd want to go with taint most of the time < 1323783138 491505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you definitely need lift for tainting, but Applicative has that, right? < 1323783150 583059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never quite remember what Applicative has, and what it doesn't have < 1323783237 811299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Applicative is Functor, pure, and (<*>) < 1323783246 632213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Functor isn't necessary < 1323783251 317658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap f x = pure f <*> x < 1323783253 537428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do monads have over that? < 1323783256 234683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join < 1323783265 994058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure :: a -> f a, (<*>) :: f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1323783269 387390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join :: m (m a) -> m a < 1323783280 944879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, join lets the /structure/ of a computation depend on the /result/ of another < 1323783294 750874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicatives have static control structure, Monads have dynamic control structure < 1323783297 647308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the case of Identity, you can't really tell whether it exists or not, because it's trivial < 1323783305 168227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only the one structure < 1323783311 816763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it exists or not? huh? < 1323783312 953363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so join is trivial to define but doesn't do anything < 1323783320 306991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure join does something < 1323783322 157154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, hmm < 1323783324 991298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not denying Identity is a Monad < 1323783338 439870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that I might not agree with "Identity is a useful monad" < 1323783348 367951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1323783354 525539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although do notation is certainly useful for taint, I think you'd usually express computations that can be expressed with Applicative with it < 1323783360 168492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I'm saying makes sense in my own mind, but is not an elliott-approved concept < 1323783371 82868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323783409 966936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I actually don't know what you mean, though :P < 1323783467 974637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, umm, if there's only one possible definition of something (as in, you can get the definition just from the types), it's impossible to tell whether that definition's being used or not < 1323783470 493574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously it /is/ < 1323783502 328049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I almost passed out on the bus this morning, I may not be in a particularly sane state of mind < 1323783510 846666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try not passing out on the bus < 1323783514 876876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION advice < 1323783532 164343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did; I even succeeded < 1323783537 775876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was pretty close for a while < 1323783540 607893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations! now try not almost passing out on the bus < 1323783543 912670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was lucky that today was so incredibly windy < 1323783544 166770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(advanced stage) < 1323783561 154467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helped keep me alert, wind does that < 1323783575 417893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1323783585 707529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, something I read in the paper this morning; you know how non-tech press normally calls all malware viruses? < 1323783613 931156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I saw a variation this time, along the lines of "even if you don't enter any personal information, the malicious pages can still fill your computer with bugs" < 1323783631 122378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was trying to work out what definition of "bugs" they meant, and if it was a reasonable metaphor or not < 1323783678 238962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323783694 591642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the "covert listening device" definition of bug. < 1323783702 425784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: indeed, I was wondering if they meant that < 1323783717 214679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a more accurate description than the typical newspaper one; also, more vague and more confusing < 1323783725 619671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most broadly all a computer user cares about is "it doesn't do what I want" < 1323783729 951348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could call all those bugs < 1323783735 89296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to be weird :P < 1323783746 548694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't consider misfeatures to be bugs < 1323783799 156703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Incidentally, the "listening device" definition of a bug is used in what I believe (from glancing perusal of the earlier discussion) is nowadays your favourite comicky strip ever, the Silence in the Darkness on Q16. < 1323783831 673117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Please tell me you learned this from that discussion and you're not like some super Silence in the Darkness on Q16 fan. < 1323783870 207007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I learned it from the discussion in the sense that post-discussion I click-througed quite a number of black squares; one of the few non-black ones was http://silenceinthedarknessonq16.comicostrich.com/comic.php?cdate=20070512 which uses it. < 1323783887 367993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hadn't heard of SitDoQ16 before today at all.) < 1323783898 662553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose it abbreviates like that?) < 1323783903 361262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that assurance was all I needed. < 1323784158 487062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm reasonably happy with my object file format < 1323784180 182228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bunch of VHDL comments which contain key/context/value triples, followed by something arbitrary, which could well be VHDL < 1323784188 814847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's context? < 1323784271 386084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like what variable the key applies to < 1323784279 852803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas there are finitely many keys < 1323784288 357174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like part of the value to me < 1323784326 865582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, what? < 1323784338 39395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1323784339 700199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :) < 1323784352 352753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could consider it part of the key, I guess < 1323784361 404933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would probably go straight to key = list of strings and no fixed keys < 1323784370 143297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should probably ignore unrecognised keys, anyway, for future extensibility < 1323784370 883115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the whole thing's more flexible than just keys and just values, and doesn't really follow a pattern < 1323784379 426493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, that seems reasonable < 1323784680 157970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, you have to hear my ridiculous build system idea since nobody else will: < 1323784771 951229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on; one of the most important purposes of this channel is finding people to bounce ridiculous ideas off < 1323784787 681334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: set up a FUSE filesystem that has all the output files existing already; they can be opened fine, but read and stat will block until the files exist for real; then, start every single command that needs to be run in parallel (note: the FUSE filesystem doesn't pretend the output file exists for the process trying to write it, i.e. it knows which file not to fake for each process) < 1323784798 400934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this achieves maximum parallelism thanks to the operating system < 1323784818 849467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reads of yet-to-be-built input files succeed as soon as possible < 1323784833 758274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's awesome, I'm just upset that many compilers will fail on that sort of thing due to being badly designed < 1323784845 614764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure they would, actually < 1323784852 847080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most compilers don't break on really slow filesystems < 1323784865 367012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they seek around in the file that they're writing? < 1323784875 133145 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1323784875 318033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't at all surprise me if an ar/tar variant did that < 1323784878 988730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that works fine; the output file is "normal" for each command < 1323784883 620870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's every other output that's faked < 1323784896 988756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the file to be created doesn't exist in the filesystem each command runs in < 1323784904 581459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, do you only remove the block on the read when the file is actually closed? < 1323784905 28826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just every other output of the build process < 1323784922 520165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when the command completes successfully, yes; I suppose that would work as an optimisation, too < 1323784922 969906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant it only blocked until the relevant portion of the file had been written < 1323784936 303041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's even better, but most compilers stat < 1323784939 904076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of them anyway < 1323784948 934077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the vast majority buffer their output fully < 1323784952 897711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that wouldn't actually help much < 1323784953 941827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but stat wouldn't break it, just read-after-write-barrier it < 1323784969 738913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I mean < 1323784974 248334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to wait for the whole thing to finish < 1323784977 943399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for them to get the correct stat result < 1323784986 697366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I meant by a read-after-write barrier < 1323784988 727938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323784991 931563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the advantage is negated < 1323785001 781735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what we need? lazy languages < 1323785011 698174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thankfully, I fear this scheme won't work very well < 1323785016 568545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you could have stat return before its results were available < 1323785020 22868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I suspect the overhead of setting up every process is too great < 1323785031 533187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the scheduler will hate you < 1323785047 897145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1323785052 544613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's just unsafeInterleaveIO < 1323785063 306533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that what that does? < 1323785073 37391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what's unsafe about it, btw?) < 1323785073 215825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just (return . unsafePerformIO), essentially < 1323785077 312640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the IO only gets executed when you force the action < 1323785079 306068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeeeeell < 1323785082 597336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people argue it isn't unsafe < 1323785086 352647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're wrong < 1323785091 486585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exposes evaluation order as IO < 1323785093 192694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1323785103 971532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever some /pure/ code forces the value you get out of an unsafeInterleaveIO action < 1323785106 505822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IO occurs < 1323785121 36071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it lets you tell things apart that should be indistinguishable < 1323785121 915513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can justify this as still being inside the IO monad -- it doesn't break purity in a strict sense < 1323785125 250833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's eurgh < 1323785126 599253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not rtue < 1323785127 282234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1323785129 947019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ lets you do that < 1323785136 131277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to determine evaluation order < 1323785139 368840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... it's icky < 1323785149 527130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getContents uses that, it returns all of stdin as a lazy string < 1323785149 729779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can code to protect your code from _|_ in particular < 1323785154 504276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, what? < 1323785158 709806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using seq or whatever < 1323785167 940560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're confused, unsafeInterleaveIO doesn't let you tell things apart that should be distinguishable at all < 1323785178 357321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, they're making a film out of Battleship < 1323785193 740897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the game < 1323785194 958668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… I suppose unsafeInterleaveIO could be implemented in terms of exceptions and an unthrow operation that went back to where the exception was thrown from < 1323785206 172673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd just be a generic war film, right? < 1323785232 438966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "In the Hawaiian Islands, an international naval fleet at Pearl Harbor engage in a very dynamic and intense battle against an alien race known as "The Regents". The aliens come to planet Earth, on a mission to build a power source in the ocean. Upon their visit, they come in contact with the navy fleet. The film is also purported to show both sides of the story, from the aliens' perspective, as well as the humans' so the audience knows exa < 1323785232 757132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctly where the opponent's ships are.[4]" < 1323785235 2722 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323785247 12802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my games of Battleship usually aren't against aliens... < 1323785255 415220 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello... < 1323785256 588244 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ill < 1323785262 462244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they made a film out of Monopoly yet? < 1323785269 958287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be THE WORST THING EVER AND SO SHIT AND EVERYONE WHO WOULD ENJOY IT SHOULD DIE < 1323785274 3475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A DEATHLY MANNER < 1323785276 357905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1323785277 209136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd < 1323785296 681329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are quite a few movie trailers for Tetris: The Movie, but I don't think anyone's made it for reals. :/ < 1323785307 178963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, that with games that are simplifications (often huge ones) of reality, then complicating them into a film just makes it look like it's a film based on reality < 1323785312 629019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I know; some of them are quite good < 1323785321 667018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt there'd be enough plot in it to carry a full-length movie < 1323785331 296630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Like a Tetris movie would just be a documentary on the construction of high-rise buildings. < 1323785352 461914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pretty much all non-computer attempts to simulate Tetris that I've seen don't allow for the removal of lines to work correctly < 1323785353 469288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, there's Complete History of the Soviet Union. < 1323785361 417684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a Tetris board game once; it didn't really work < 1323785362 440850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has plot and everything! < 1323785384 203367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you completed a line you were meant to put a peg next to it to mean "this line's completed, ignore it" < 1323785389 452786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1323785396 667568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen that, too < 1323785402 639859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you couldn't physically stretch the pieces across it because they were made of rigid plastic < 1323785452 805470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still feeling let down by that "first person" Tetris. < 1323785465 204168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could have been my favourite game! < 1323785493 420775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no obvious reason why that would necessarily be awful < 1323785494 162437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Admittedly it's not so much as a Tetris film as a film with Tetris jammed into the side of it.) < 1323785494 585288 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323785496 864792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it just implemented badly? < 1323785499 904256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it wasn't first person < 1323785504 868329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just rotated the screen as you rotated the piece, that's all < 1323785507 881778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it was standard tetris < 1323785534 980259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it meets one of the necessary conditions to be first person, but is also missing at least one < 1323785535 681701 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah here we are.. hello esofriends :} < 1323785544 800876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hagb4rd < 1323785572 567114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, we found a place to send the lost people < 1323785574 292675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1323785581 206464 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net. < 1323785585 329382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yay < 1323785595 952996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will make a lot of people happier, I think < 1323785614 326756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason why esoterica shouldn't be discussed; just it's awkward to put two mostly unrelated subjects in one channel < 1323785625 762777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can still mock them before sending them off, right? :( < 1323785626 263397 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are things goin..look like a rainy day..and this cold winds comin from the northern sea < 1323785631 58492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding Tetris, I think they never got the Chernobyl control center simulator they were building for Altparty 2011 to work. There were people fiddling with it at all times of day during the whole weekend, with multimeters and soldering irons and whatnot, but from what I hear it never quite worked out wrong the right way. < 1323785649 183108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In, um, Tetris? < 1323785672 1072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, just, you know, associating. Tetris -> Soviet Union + game -> that thing. < 1323785689 660772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simulating that in Tetris would be impressive. < 1323785699 76410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard a rumour that in nuclear power plants, the alarms sound continuously except when there's a problem, when they stop, because it's more noticeable that way or something < 1323785702 297238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's false, though < 1323785711 248300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems dubious < 1323785716 343732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to notice persistent sounds stopping < 1323785763 176434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed; but it seems like a bizarre decision to make < 1323785772 953459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the other way round would presumably work too < 1323785802 925364 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hunt the errors: http://hpaste.org/55219 < 1323785818 840568 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the little things that are just /wrong/ < 1323785852 363446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the wumpus. < 1323785853 816152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, I've concluded that reducing problems to problems that have already been solved is a fast way to do software development, but tends to lead to subquality programs < 1323785906 994294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I did probably the most bizarre optimization I've done ever this morning < 1323785927 462924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was to a function that calculated strongly connected subsets of graphs < 1323785940 777389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I reject that because it contradicts one of my core principles :P < 1323785942 678095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graph was (and still is) represented as a list of pairs < 1323785943 769183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rational. < 1323785953 450117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you optimised before getting a better graph representation? < 1323785955 609113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the order is arbitrary < 1323785979 440446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that representation comes naturally out of the problem; optimising the representation would involve writing a conversion function < 1323785988 71964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was profile-guided optimisation, looking for the slowest part and speeding it up < 1323785995 951259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I sped the program up by a factor of 6 simply by reversing the list < 1323786003 580211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323786043 336663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What do you think interact does? < 1323786044 824033 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have zou optimized..the calculating or the drawing part < 1323786048 618186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my theory in this respect is that the list happens to be sorted, and it's quite plausible that sorted lists happen to hit the worst case of whatever algorithm I'm using (I got it from Wikipedia) < 1323786061 602525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Also, you don't want an Array. < 1323786062 292469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reversing it gets rid of that worst-casiness in the case of the algorithm in question < 1323786070 1131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: drawing? < 1323786096 114513 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no idea what interact is, and I have no idea why I would want an array < 1323786107 663419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is an array in Haskell? < 1323786110 443671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Then why did you type "interact $"? < 1323786122 104353 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the type signature seemed right! < 1323786128 721330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What are you trying to do? < 1323786137 620723 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how one could imprve the speed of calculating maths without changing the architecture of your hardware < 1323786137 880702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can I have a standard response for "your question is unanswerable without you clarifying it"? < 1323786156 511835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1323786164 607552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because $that. < 1323786167 783033 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really, I want to learn my latin vocab < 1323786168 458943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, you're in a better position to clarify the questions than I am < 1323786181 985271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my typical reply is "indeed, I'm not quite sure of what I'm asking, but asked because I want to know what I should be asking" < 1323786189 862194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: That's a bit more general than I was intending my question to be answered in. < 1323786198 78668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't we just assume the response/reply and save time? < 1323786203 152401 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what the entire program is for < 1323786203 373377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, let me rephrase what I said: Rephrase what you said, or I can't answer it. < 1323786212 658447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What are you trying to achieve by applying interact? < 1323786244 609026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what operations does a value of type Array x y support in Haskell, and is there anything particularly notable about their performance behaviour? < 1323786252 774398 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the fact that I don't actually know, I'd guess I should rewrite it < 1323786267 54957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t interact < 1323786268 56651 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(String -> String) -> IO () < 1323786274 84918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed < 1323786280 297983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's (Array i a), where i is the index type, and a is the element type < 1323786287 819026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's just a boxed, lazy array < 1323786298 510404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, a contiguous region of memory containing pointers to thunks < 1323786312 744858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could almost remember what interact did, just not the details < 1323786317 355394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the API is crappy and everyone uses Vector instead but Ngevd doesn't want Vector here either I don't think < 1323786326 208925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interact happens to use lazy IO (-> unsafeInterleaveIO). < 1323786332 153724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cue sad track (is that a thing?) < 1323786335 433622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, so it supports operations like copy but with one element changed? < 1323786357 330913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There are mutable and immutable versions; the immutable version is stuff like that, yes. < 1323786360 250847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'd expect an array to do in a pure functional language < 1323786375 699181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also unboxed arrays, but that's not the type being used here. < 1323786381 465656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also the API is horrible and everyone uses Vector instead. < 1323786382 254828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the sort of thing that can reasonably easily be optimised by the compiler into mutation behind the scenes, in cases where the optimisation is obviously correct (which are common) < 1323786386 660911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I said that enough? < 1323786390 872084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not reasonably easy at all < 1323786408 9453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GHC does do it, but it's not something I'd want to rely on < 1323786430 783883 :kallisti!~eris@h91.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323786431 198782 :kallisti!~eris@h91.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1323786431 383920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1323786476 950824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: anyway, I think you should use an explicit pattern match instead of either there < 1323786489 520649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you can tell that you're using interact wrong, because < 1323786495 961888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the most obvious case is if there's only possibly one reference to the input array, and it goes out of scope upon the copy-replace operation < 1323786496 843779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { ... IO stuff ... } :: IO a (for some a) < 1323786501 660692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in (interact f), f must :: String -> String < 1323786506 407233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO a =/= (String -> String) < 1323786515 596973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, sufficiently smart compilers are really easy to explain < 1323786518 557803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I find that's reasonably common in functional languages < 1323786524 588368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gcc can implement that < 1323786526 309823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and take decades to implement < 1323786533 517941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gcc doesn't implement Haskell < 1323786544 934285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine that most compilers that even vaguely do optimisations do that, actually < 1323786567 910020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you'd need a stupidly smart compiler if the array operation was written in Haskell, rather than hardcoded into the compiler < 1323786588 563532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc implements array operations as fairly thin wrappers over primitives < 1323786598 217318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, I think you're vastly oversimplifying things < 1323786636 227089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's see, there are two properties we need to check; "only reference" and "dies here" < 1323786655 84118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dies here" is trivial to check; in most compilers that go via SSA you need to actively throw away information to not track that < 1323786672 412301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am disagreeing with your assessment of the situation < 1323786677 189443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like debating it right now though < 1323786683 348541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"only reference" is rather harder, but the common case where you just created the reference and haven't passed it to anything else yet can be optimised < 1323786699 518340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, what about this for an argument: I actually implemented that optimisation for Underload in derlo < 1323786715 45778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except at runtime < 1323786717 662261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am glad we live in that special world where Underload is Haskell < 1323786733 732972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why do you think that Haskell is somehow magically special when it comes to this? < 1323786740 646074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, Underload shares many properties that make this kind of mutating optimisation tricky in Haskell, such as full laziness! < 1323786742 7061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, hmm. < 1323786744 58772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1323786753 959066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I forgot about laziness < 1323786770 749687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world needs a strict version of Haskell < 1323786777 766193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it really doesn't < 1323786785 255026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily because it'd be better, but because it would make it much easier to compare it with things < 1323786792 688029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323786795 646899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's DDC. < 1323786806 281747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has lots of innovations that have nothing to do with laziness, and the laziness gets in the way when you'd like to evaluate them on their own < 1323786824 697667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haskell is for people who want to write programs, not for people who want to debate languages :P < 1323786918 831121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does Ngevd's Haskell program seriously say "interact $ do"? < 1323786930 419369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323786930 865529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder it jumped out at elliott < 1323786946 237011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial type errors are quite easy to spot :P < 1323786988 531076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, String = [Char] and thus is a monad action type, technically speaking… < 1323787007 448767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1323787013 181017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, yes < 1323787017 401811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but that's irrelevant < 1323787021 238833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the head is (->) here < 1323787024 436652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the reader monad < 1323787036 605320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, that's what I first thought < 1323787039 146995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I forgot about the $ < 1323787040 640457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, err, getStdGen rather ruins that theory < 1323787045 302515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1323787048 387555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the $ is irrelevant < 1323787051 702565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just (interact (do ...)) < 1323787059 233026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, hmm < 1323787066 92453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1323787087 521813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is relevant < 1323787098 190421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if it had been (interact $ (do …) "abc") < 1323787102 759800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1323787105 111201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't < 1323787113 365780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that doesn't make sense either < 1323787126 430679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: When did map.h start including world.h? :/ < 1323787127 269885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'll explain a lot if I explain that I don't find Haskell intuitive < 1323787136 339386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you've said that < 1323787153 597255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write in it, but I often make crazy type mistakes or whatever due to not grasping it < 1323787163 545125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in OCaml, pretty much all the type errors I make are typos < 1323787178 29565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because OCaml's type system is too shallow to catch any real type errors :) < 1323787183 963021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323787184 163515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRUUUUUN < 1323787188 4868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait until Anarchy comes around < 1323787204 298582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no language called Anarchy is allowed to have a type system < 1323787230 325270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that it's statically typed with a really expressive type system, that's also massively complex but it doesn't matter because the types aren't user-visible < 1323787245 492231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have problems just coming up with a notation to write the types down < 1323787248 883525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1323787255 233160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: $ git blame map.h | grep world.h < 1323787255 418203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :3105a3b3 (Elliott Hird 2011-07-23 10:00:04 +0100 5) #include "world.h" < 1323787258 659067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Better ask yourself that. < 1323787262 253713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-( < 1323787266 76674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't matter because it just makes sure that the program types for the specific uses of the functions you're using < 1323787271 399696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scapegoat won't have blame, right? < 1323787274 272355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rimshot < 1323787289 252712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd be hard not to ;) < 1323787298 606336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think it's called scapegoat in the first place? < 1323787302 234211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1323787303 170708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already < 1323787303 692350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did < 1323787304 605908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rimshot < 1323787309 253886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to point it out :'( < 1323787312 371397 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait until Anarchy comes around <== isn't that how everything started? < 1323787323 576983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: nah, Anarchy's an esolang < 1323787327 549250 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323787327 983978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will be, once I work it out < 1323787329 42222 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1323787337 287221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should've used "git annotate", it's less bitchy. < 1323787342 174372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is slightly more implemented than most completely vaporware esolangs, because it has a parser, which also actually works < 1323787356 652223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this puts it in a different category from Cyclexa, which has only a parser but it doesn't work) < 1323787386 534957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, hmm, Cyclexa : Anarchy :: UNIX : @, but less so < 1323787402 881441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, a better analogy < 1323787407 671079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyclexa : Anarchy :: bash : Powershell < 1323787412 371588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, add some more spaces around those colons, or those words will start fighting < 1323787412 556658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more so < 1323787425 308657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1323787434 645093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: UNIX and @ < 1323787438 586541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1323787451 666631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was something like the third interpretation I tried < 1323787485 159773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, it seems that the next big thing in JavaScript implementation is type inference < 1323787502 581352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as part of the language, but getting the compilers to infer types so that they don't have to put type checks in at runtime < 1323787520 823929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next big thing? < 1323787524 121716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the previous big thing < 1323787535 712370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, they've been doing that, or at least talking about doing that, for years < 1323787535 896963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, have they managed it now? they were starting on it last I looked < 1323787543 370035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well it may be that they're only just now succeeding :) < 1323787568 114380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, in Anarchy tuples and lists are special cases of the same thing < 1323787585 858415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably obvious, but they use the same type constructor, (,) < 1323787610 508821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure anarchy isn't just dynamically typed :) < 1323787623 74803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the defining feature of Anarchy is just picking up a convenient type constructor from somewhere and not worrying about if it already means something else < 1323787633 55980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's aptly named < 1323787675 882174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could call it an instance of the whole sufficiently smart compiler thing, with respect to "a sufficiently smart compiler should just magically figure out all the types I'm using even if they make no sense" < 1323787681 815624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I think it's practical < 1323787730 778379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not really sure what to do about polymorphic recursion < 1323787738 222215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously allowed, and also obviously not allowed in general < 1323787744 739469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't figure out what the restrictions are < 1323787825 68238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest way would just be to put an arbitrary limit on the number of different type constructors that can be used in any given type (whether or not they have the same names; or perhaps only if they have the same names, as only a finite number of type constructor names can be used in any given program) < 1323787857 689975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just take the fixed-point < 1323787881 937554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed; the problem is, I'm not yet convinced it's computable to determine if there is a fixed-point < 1323787902 74871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it'll turn out that there's always one, so its computability is not in question < 1323787909 448986 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y isnt just restricted by avaiable memory? < 1323787936 232994 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :]that < 1323787942 848978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: the limit's to detect infinite loops in the traditional crude way of "well, it hasn't finished yet, it's probably infinite" < 1323787957 875417 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott saz < 1323787964 346696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1323787966 778123 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :says its limited < 1323787982 756194 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of constructors < 1323787985 772386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says what's limited? < 1323787990 110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is the one who said that. < 1323787992 972728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he just said "finite". < 1323787998 369405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs are finite, usually... < 1323788030 763257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: if you can write a program containing infinitely many different names for type constructors, good on you, but don't expect me to be able to compile it, or even yourself to be able to fit it in a pastebin < 1323788033 852182 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it was ais: as only a finite number of type constructor names can be used in any given program < 1323788050 18662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finitely many, not a fixed amount < 1323788053 52035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: well, you can't exactly generate them at runtime < 1323788056 290402 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just curious < 1323788063 945196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be anarchic, but it isn't Perl < 1323788068 69367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, limited by memory = a finite limit :) < 1323788075 38603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: i was just answering your curiosity < 1323788111 633217 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. so everything works out fine < 1323788223 969794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ban fizzie please. :/ < 1323788255 38792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the offense of not inventing names for you? < 1323788267 112975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1323788274 394164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very upset. < 1323788285 981336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, of course it's decidable < 1323788338 650291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the same issue is why Haskell and OCaml's error messages for type errors are less helpful than usual when recursion is involved < 1323788364 673249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id < 1323788365 495460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1323788382 382275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are? < 1323788387 223604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you specify a type signature, at least < 1323788397 748247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I mean in the case of inference only < 1323788429 39112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically what they end up complaining about is nonobvious because it's based on a bunch of assumptions that you hadn't meant to be correct < 1323788493 365149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is "even-length list" a type expressible in Haskell? < 1323788509 303766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, extremely trivially < 1323788514 136818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you think for a second to figure out how < 1323788526 746389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but not in a way that's a special case of [], right? < 1323788567 222430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can define EvenList a = Nil | ConsEven a (OddList a) and OddList a = ConsOdd a (EvenList a) < 1323788574 382341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no: to do that would require subtyping, which wreaks hell on inference; I suspect you would accept something that could be constructed like (Foo [1,2,3,4]), in which case I will complain that you're giving list literal syntax undue weight :) < 1323788593 958143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was going for data EvenList a = Nil | Cons a a (EvenList a) < 1323788605 828936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not EvenList = Nil | Cons a (OddList a) and OddList = Cons a (EvenList a) < 1323788612 628386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1323788616 989466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you can't get the tail with a pattern-match < 1323788645 740160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, yes you can, just put the element back manually < 1323788679 463362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the definition which uses Cons in both places rather than ConsEven and ConsOdd is what you'd use in Anarchy, if you could specify types at all rather than having them inferred < 1323788685 951246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it desugars into ConsEven and ConsOdd < 1323788710 736491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably with less meaningful names < 1323788860 551833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha I have found the hipsterest metal. < 1323789325 339779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, recent discovery: YouTube's making people give them their cellphone number to uncap accounts and allow them to upload videos longer than 15 minutes < 1323789329 252862 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323789337 898624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure I can explain that away in any way /but/ being evil < 1323789899 108903 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323789947 199440 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323790062 654426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to avoid bots clogging the servers? < 1323790086 185464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not the only requirement < 1323790367 267569 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323790377 238332 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323790443 393067 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323790462 324453 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323790785 544700 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323790964 296527 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a Japanese ditto last night :D < 1323790994 38024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: err, context? < 1323790999 640285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be Pokémon, but I'm not sure it is < 1323791002 961895 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1323791017 165713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flawless speed and HP stat? < 1323791021 409586 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just japanese < 1323791051 950617 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really get a quebecois game and do shenanigans if I ever decide to try to breed pokes for combat < 1323791185 681989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't, the international bonus effectively works out to a 13% decrease in the length of time it takes to train them up to level 50/100, which is not really noticeable < 1323791195 697163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no impact on the actual eventual stats < 1323791306 842048 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1323791450 489241 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323791747 313704 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I wasn't talking about that < 1323791758 432981 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't think quebecois would count as international < 1323791768 969616 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shininess that I'm going for < 1323791788 699066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would; the cartridges for games in a particular language are identical < 1323791807 21084 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would register it as having the same location < 1323791809 848855 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's my location < 1323791810 71529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't distinguish US/France from England/France from English Canadian/French Canadian < 1323791826 963166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :registered location is ignored, I think, because it's so easily faked < 1323791835 349573 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323791890 789129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TIL that detonating a nuclear bomb was only banned in 1998 < 1323791893 680839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK < 1323791914 48735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was a consequence of the comprehensive test ban treaty; typically, detonating a nuclear bomb before then would typically violate some other law indirectly) < 1323792739 670075 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about just possessing a nuclear bomb, that legal? < 1323793364 84750 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323793461 316985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best ISP-given workaround ever. Paraphrasing here: "We've switched some mobile data connections to use NAT; connecting mobile devices will randomly get either a public IP or a NATted one. [What do I do if a service I'm using requires a public IP?] In this case, you must try establishing the connection again until you get a public IP. Use [link] to check your current IP." < 1323793467 931358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most helpful. < 1323793504 49442 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323793574 161924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official justification is the predicted sparsity of v4 addresses. < 1323793604 960175 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So give 'em IPv6 addresses. They'll do just fine. < 1323793618 538363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be too futuristic. < 1323793965 784291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of surprised at how slowly IPv6 is being adopted. < 1323794027 684701 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't like change changing < 1323794068 633796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think NAT probably has slowed down the change as well? < 1323794102 213016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it lets everyone procrastinate the looming address exhaustion apocalypse < 1323794120 530586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no real reason you can't just NAT further and further. < 1323794138 777290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1323794139 491686 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1323794142 986618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ugly. ;_; < 1323794181 10512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was a good idea. < 1323794227 209950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :""[...] it is possible that its [NAT's] widespread use will significantly delay the need to deploy IPv6. [...] It is probably safe to say that networks would be better off without NAT [...]" -- "Some" < 1323794252 654881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what Some[6] say, according to Wikipedia < 1323794682 216444 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the Some Institute of Somersville. < 1323795613 355761 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1323795764 534631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323796197 828100 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1323797050 177511 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think station v3 has a sort of gilligan's isle sort of plot except it does seem they are always endeavouring to get from A to B < 1323797080 8944 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the characters they would all look perfectly at home in commander keen < 1323797292 472131 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... oh i think i see now.. im just in complete confusion over all the events since im just reading from a random position < 1323797316 374826 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus giving the illusion that lots of stuff was all miraculously invented at once < 1323797400 493196 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like how video games seemed amazing all at once, despite requiring the discovery of electricity, the invention of computers, the invention of television, the invention of the microchip, < 1323797740 413869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the invention of people. < 1323797756 735299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the invention of money < 1323797774 277655 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :life too < 1323797782 247398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eyes < 1323797783 812810 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hands < 1323797793 975415 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :light < 1323797819 329456 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323797844 44390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its te same effect when you encounter a webcomic for the first time < 1323797866 189998 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can seem like theres endless pages until you catch up < 1323797894 781653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, to be fair, theres endless webcomics out there < 1323798280 574879 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did itidus get incremented? o_0 < 1323798342 464682 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs itidus21 < 1323798368 135520 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17205 < 1323798430 865940 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 from 23rd july < 1323798436 16666 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs itidus20 < 1323798444 43185 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29013 < 1323798477 510484 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 from 16th july .. it seems to vary back and forth < 1323798513 686513 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a phenomenon which requires explanation < 1323798538 79683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my alt nick i guess < 1323798566 290987 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i am not used to irc, i havent made provisions to use underscores < 1323798744 122263 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323799281 863479 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1323801433 936431 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did freshmeat.net change to freecode.com??? < 1323801527 485782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :___---_-----------------------_______ < 1323801547 776838 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 2011-10-29 < 1323801570 90688 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I would have noticed that if it hadn't become so irrelevant. < 1323801577 5745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323801741 611755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you're irrelevant. < 1323801785 633589 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you're a relephant < 1323802021 378770 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323802558 273152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323802771 188056 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323802980 655760 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323803877 799362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323804061 744782 :kallisti!~eris@h91.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804061 921945 :kallisti!~eris@h91.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1323804061 922088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804110 272191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer just overheated on my bed. < 1323804113 170807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I need to clean the fan. < 1323804227 802769 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it catch on fire < 1323804280 594469 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804348 844040 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804432 366045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1323804441 23407 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it turned itself off < 1323804453 188081 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not nearly as cool as spontaneous combustion < 1323804482 283473 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert heat joke < 1323804483 288291 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804483 464785 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1323804483 464932 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804657 223080 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323805163 633119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat lol &| echo < 1323805166 67639 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `|' \ bash: -c: line 0: `cat lol &| echo' < 1323805169 403339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat lol | echo < 1323805172 379873 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ cat: lol: No such file or directory < 1323805178 364781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323805187 15146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that thing that's like 2>&1 | < 1323805200 776245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat lol |& echo < 1323805203 12195 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323805243 24855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat lol | echo < 1323805245 774466 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ cat: lol: No such file or directory < 1323805534 370906 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1323805704 216526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :head -c 200 | head -n 2 < 1323805714 114809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can this be combined into a single head command? < 1323805746 94211 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried the obvious yet? < 1323805754 416926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not. :P < 1323805765 116274 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1323805768 982947 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me know < 1323805776 928873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I think I did try it a while ago. < 1323805787 465052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I will try again because I don't remember < 1323805835 115811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ambiguous without an explicit ordering though so I don't think it would work. < 1323805885 981244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah using -c with -n just ignores -n < 1323806293 821344 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1323806909 440053 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1323806963 412050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9**9**9 < 1323806964 326958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1323807124 409824 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough. < 1323807448 338871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323807913 969469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = qw(a b c); print splice @a, 0, 5 < 1323807916 784547 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc < 1323807941 424335 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323807949 291251 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1323807953 995452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = qw(a b c); map {print "ha" if undefined } splice @a, 0, 5 < 1323807954 588129 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1323807970 182496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = qw(a b c); map {print "ha" if !defined } splice @a, 0, 5 < 1323807983 272171 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity. check. < 1323808391 110240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9^9^9 < 1323808396 231070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1323808396 465431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: Prelude.undefined < 1323808400 684745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just checking.) < 1323808410 61605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "Infinity" was closer. < 1323808824 609217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9^9 < 1323808825 506906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 387420489 < 1323808841 196175 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return my (defined wantarray? undef : $s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323808841 860253 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't declare null operation in "my" at /tmp/input.23478 line 1, near ") =" < 1323808848 583469 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323808853 2128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOO < 1323808860 349348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my completely beautiful code is ruined. < 1323808867 889650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to use /multiple lines/ < 1323808918 261709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd sort of think the point of my is that it's lexically scoped at compile-time < 1323808958 81675 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return my (defined wantarray? undef : $s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323808958 545776 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't declare null operation in "my" at /tmp/input.23726 line 1, near ") =" < 1323808972 426701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return (defined wantarray? undef : $$s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323808972 998973 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modification of a read-only value attempted at /tmp/input.23799 line 1. < 1323808993 383953 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return (defined wantarray? (undef) : $$s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323808994 13036 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assignment to both a list and a scalar at /tmp/input.23860 line 1, near "2;" < 1323809018 200743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return (defined wantarray? (undef) : ($$s)) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323809018 773145 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1323809025 523331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323809079 887361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay maybe there's a better way to write that in one line. < 1323809094 325679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return (defined wantarray? $_ : $$s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323809094 901805 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1323809118 600879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return defined wantarray? $_ : $$s = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323809119 174301 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1323809131 262680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more confusing without the parens I think. < 1323809179 509108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return defined wantarray? $_ : $$s = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s; print < 1323809180 123525 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :222 < 1323809186 126596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it overwrites $_ < 1323809194 382673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return defined wantarray? my $_ : $$s = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s; print < 1323809194 988650 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1323809197 966816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1323809270 373267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :return (defined wantarray? my $_ : $$s) = join "\n", (splice @lines, 0, $n // $line_cap); < 1323809276 63252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my opus magnus. < 1323809326 375369 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also write my (undef) < 1323809341 853458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait no that wouldn't work < 1323809377 199509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323809410 358823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\_) { my ($s) = @_; return defined wantarray? my $_ : $$s = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s; print < 1323809411 6505 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malformed prototype for main::test: \_ at /tmp/input.24632 line 1. < 1323809421 489186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I would think \_ could be a valid prototype < 1323809436 968081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a nice comfy chair (without legs) < 1323809466 260907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What'd it mean? I mean, _'s not a sigil. < 1323809483 262910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ means to use $_ if no argument is supplied. < 1323809489 160773 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the multimana semiring (from Icosahedral RPG) is like (Cont Natural Five) because, a mana can be (Five -> Natural) to tell you how many copies of a prime factor, and a mana -> Natural tells you what integer multiple of that mana is added together. It won't work to read the amount of your mana in Haskell, because the set of manas is infinite. < 1323809490 28190 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's otherwise treated as $ < 1323809521 262189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but: "Any backslashed prototype character represents an actual argument that absolutely must start with that character." That's not going to work for a \_. < 1323809534 546481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a dumb rule. :P < 1323809549 912179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is talking about what should be. < 1323809572 608883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1323809585 956380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd like to get a scalarref to $_ if the argument is missing? < 1323809586 439497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of perl operators mutate $_ in place < 1323809591 613620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323809620 689071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually need it right now < 1323809626 996712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just something I could see being useful to have. < 1323809632 621642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that make a semiring if the result type (r) of a continuation is a semiring? < 1323809633 891052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when emulating perl operators. < 1323809733 419442 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but I'm pretty sure you can just do that with manual hacks. < 1323809741 970294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since $_ can be modified in-place anywhere < 1323809788 794537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make the argument optional. if it's missing, modify a non-lexically bound $_ < 1323809789 20199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course to implement in Haskell requires additional constraints) < 1323809918 80456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub foo (;\$) { my $ref = shift // \$_; $$ref = "ha"; } $_ = "x"; foo; my $bar = "y"; foo $bar; print "$_ $bar"; < 1323809918 603153 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha < 1323809921 146957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: man I really wish Perl 6 were a branched language and perl 6 were just some basic improvements to perl 5. < 1323809994 188513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm < 1323810026 500194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I misread. yes that's basically what I was suggesting. < 1323810056 341429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even arguably look that bad, since it's just a //\$_ piece of line-noise. < 1323810072 385033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :($ref? $$ref : $_) = "ha"; < 1323810074 104303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :works as well. < 1323810088 529078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am immune to perl line noise.. < 1323810091 437680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't bother me. < 1323810093 539665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/\/\/ do the wave. < 1323810141 408441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look at perl and see a beautiful language. :) < 1323810168 268819 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ocular adjustment required < 1323810182 197503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE I SEE WITH MY BRAIN. < 1323810190 861758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see beauty with my brain anyway. < 1323810199 162416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably other things too! < 1323810256 905830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey I just found a great way to grab two elements at a time. < 1323810284 177173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while( my ($x,$y) = splice @array, 0, 2 ) { ... } < 1323810293 790385 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323810296 931629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@array needs to be something you don't mind throwing away. < 1323810297 259099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrr! < 1323810297 767892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 elliott: the most obvious case is if there's only possibly one reference to the input array [...] <-- congratulations on reinventing the Clean language < 1323810297 944290 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1323810361 395456 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323810392 199072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :return (defined wantarray? my $_ : $$s) = join "\n", (splice @lines, 0, $n // $line_cap); < 1323810395 274262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: look at this < 1323810407 390618 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that perle < 1323810410 543223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323810434 655555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Isn't there a module for that?-) (Grabbing two elements from a list at a time.) < 1323810443 697759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: List::MoreUtils < 1323810456 791792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, the well-named "natatime". < 1323810477 757645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's natatime! Let's all nata the nat up. < 1323810480 367907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not standard though. splice is built-in and arguably takes less code. < 1323810490 403386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it FAST. < 1323810492 975223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since natatime uses an iterator object so you need a line before the loop to create it. < 1323810508 739211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: probably not as fast no. < 1323810519 262026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it deletes and resizes the array. < 1323810541 282470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but yes that's always my first question when talking about something in perl. < 1323810739 541909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(my $x; $x+1 != $#array; ++$x) < 1323810747 853648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fastest natatime < 1323810808 320679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ($a,$b) = @array[$x,++$x] < 1323810814 920839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: I was going for data EvenList a = Nil | Cons a a (EvenList a) <-- type EvenList a = [(a,a)] kthxbye < 1323810842 365082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also the most scientific benchmark ever: < 1323810843 168812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -e 'use Time::HiRes qw(time); use List::MoreUtils qw(natatime); { my @a; $#a = 10000000; $t1s = time; while (my ($x, $y) = splice @a, 0, 2) {} $t1e = time; } { my @a; $#a = 10000000; $t2s = time; for (my $it = natatime 2, @a; my ($x, $y) = $it->(); ) {} $t2e = time; } print $t1e-$t1s, " ", $t2e-$t2s, "\n";' < 1323810843 500052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.51157808303833 2.85868787765503 < 1323810859 217842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Splice is them victorious. < 1323810864 314552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow. < 1323810869 74080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect that. < 1323810933 667714 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps perl has a way to efficient remove elements from the front of a list or something? < 1323810937 767958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*efficiently < 1323810949 691024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have done something "worng", like my ADSL router configuration interface puts it. But anyhow. < 1323810972 124579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I guess natatime is written in perl whereas splice is in C, but that's still only constant factors so... < 1323810981 459196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe at higher inputs natatime beats splice? < 1323811070 168148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added a zero (well, technically, two zeros), but ran out of memory. :/ < 1323811085 626061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubling goes to 3.05185985565186 5.66645216941833, that looks quite O(n) that far. < 1323811096 279075 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1323811097 510667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Cave Story+?? < 1323811109 8491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I guess splice can just do efficient deletes at the front (and maybe the end) of arrays. < 1323811176 222901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : my computer just overheated on my bed. <-- you are not supposed to use it for that, sheesh < 1323811193 214645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: perl works hard to maintain its position of just slightly slower than most scripting languages. < 1323811301 818993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know the old adage, you have to run hard in order to run a still. Or something like that, anyway. (I think it's talking about outrunning the cops.) < 1323811313 901282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323811326 312457 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Has been for a while. (Though it's rather new for PC.) < 1323811328 9976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :prohibition era fuck yeaaaah < 1323811341 297026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG the bundle has Gratuitous Space Battles. < 1323811364 849437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is definitely worth the 70p I plan to pay for it. < 1323811388 472618 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll get neither CS+ nor GSB for 70p < 1323811463 906376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh FFS. < 1323811474 120423 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are people so infuriatingly ethical. < 1323811510 513584 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already owned them both and I still paid well above the average, so... sorry, I guess? < 1323811520 813514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you so much. < 1323811550 522565 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, only 3 new games out of 7, it appears < 1323811560 480956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Henceforth, the part of Finland Deewiant lives in is officially in Sweden. < 1323811573 654960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a C program where are static variables allocated? < 1323811581 559755 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to check with the local authorities; I doubt it < 1323811593 403700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah, what do they know. < 1323811705 703761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really a C question but a compiler question, but generally I'd expect them to end up in either the .data, .rodata or .bss section of the executable, depending on constness and zeroinitiality. < 1323811842 114696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah I knew it wasn't a language question. I just wanted a general idea of what happens there regardless of compiler. < 1323811871 336159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often ask about a "language" when I really mean "what generally happens in many implementations" < 1323811982 703988 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You totally lack proper DS9K attitude < 1323812000 526009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall a comp.lang.c thread about whether the standard says anything about the value of a local (in-function) static variable before the function has been executed for the first time. < 1323812016 853541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slightly hard to test for that empirically. < 1323812031 489654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hates language lawyery answers to such implementation-related questions. < 1323812069 91155 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The correct answer to a randomly chosen C question is usually "it's undefined; if you're feeling lucky, read the documentation for your environment, they might tell you" < 1323812074 212706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to be in the standard. I just want a general idea of what you can typically expect, if anything. < 1323812086 945551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes that happens a lot. :P < 1323812110 387226 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, implementors aren't typically dickish enough for such answers to be realistic < 1323812197 892924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as it turns out < 1323812202 631423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is a good language to write IRC bots in. < 1323812224 35464 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1323812256 599551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you know of a way to "delay" interpolation. Basically to have a string with $ variables in it and then fill those variables in later. < 1323812267 576434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eval. :p < 1323812272 257919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yes. < 1323812282 974316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget the eval hacks. < 1323812315 460790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have to make sure I don't expose anything to IRC. < 1323812318 529736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: substitution? < 1323812327 338855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes I use that currently for one thing. < 1323812329 929322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vague. < 1323812332 861020 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably would end up with quoting-related issues. < 1323812361 136313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess with no strict refs a single s///e might be able to do it too. < 1323812386 177451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for ($x = 1; x < 5; x++) { s/.*/$x/; print; } < 1323812386 354330 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a... single one? < 1323812386 720295 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify constant item in postincrement (++) at /tmp/input.29417 line 1, near "x++" < 1323812392 948447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323812399 420209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for ($x = 1; $x < 5; $x++) { s/.*/$x/; print; } < 1323812400 87559 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234 < 1323812456 419454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\$(\w+)/${$1}/ge or something like that? I don't really know. IIRC you can use a string as a scalarref with no strict refs. < 1323812472 179445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's correct < 1323812491 892566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "lifetime warranty" nonsense just reached new heights. I saw an advert for a GPU having "double lifetime warranty" < 1323812496 959187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what that means < 1323812523 936711 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :double rainbow? < 1323812534 807099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: clearly it means for the lifetime of your heir. < 1323812535 273814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323812540 347335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if I expose that feature to IRC then it would prevent things like @{[`find / -type f -delete`]} < 1323812544 625803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right < 1323812575 103191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be possible with a basic eval. < 1323812643 295177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $a = 1; $b = 2; sub foo { my $s = shift; my ($a, $b) = (42, 69); $s =~ s/\$(\w+)/${$1}/eg; return $s; } print foo('a$a, b$b'); < 1323812643 815430 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a1, b2 < 1323812660 532409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently won't go with lexical scope there, unsurprisingly. < 1323812672 920279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what's wrong with his suggestion. < 1323812733 260502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :new humble bundle btw < 1323812813 317301 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure what your suggestion was. The !perl snippet seemed somewhat unrelated for turning a string '$foo $bar' (received from somewhere) into the string '[current value of $foo] [current value of $bar]'. < 1323812820 888511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what I'll probably end up doing is using a hash so s/\$(\w+)/$vars{$1}//$$1" < 1323812823 945831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1323812826 643527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally hit enter. < 1323812860 445031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what I'll probably end up doing is using a hash so s(\$(\w+))($vars{$1}//'$'.$1)e < 1323812911 809459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done a substitute-with-keys-from-a-hash-with-s///e too, though I think I used %foo% or some-such for the placeholders, since it's clearly not "real" variable interpolation. < 1323812949 237112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also so DOS-batch-file-retroistic. If I recall them right. < 1323812960 766232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s were involved anyway. < 1323813028 349303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python has a modified printf where you can pass in a dictionary and %(name)s will interpolate to d['name']. it's pretty handy. < 1323813062 709604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :%var%, but %N for positional params? There was some unsymmetry like that. < 1323813199 212019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might learn Ruby one of these days. < 1323813270 79677 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1323813335 254944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... perl is so comfy as my scripting language. feels nice. < 1323813926 561234 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1323814090 515335 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CA22.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323814556 730030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why would I want to use autoloader? < 1323814687 645642 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323814864 336831 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1323814907 869536 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1323814990 902314 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323816360 667368 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323816428 941320 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323816737 712490 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323816780 543324 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323816816 136022 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323816839 412270 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323817043 492577 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323817117 799580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. so that's why I kept having problems when I didn't qualify all of my imported subroutines. < 1323817129 690291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put my package declaration /after/ my imports. < 1323817152 60779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the names were going into the main specify, and then I switched over to my package namespace, which didn't have those names. < 1323817186 222031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/specify/namespace (?#....?)/ < 1323817297 360076 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlmod.html#BEGIN%2c-UNITCHECK%2c-CHECK%2c-INIT-and-END < 1323817305 179083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my favorite example program in all the docs. < 1323817318 478861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The begincheck program makes it all clear, eventually" < 1323817379 550768 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how DOS batch files work; it is %var% for environment variables and %1 for parameter 1 and so on. < 1323817426 260282 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if there is any such things as continuation semiring? < 1323817445 780683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow "Note that END code blocks are not executed at the end of a string eval(): if any END code blocks are created in a string eval(), they will be executed just as any other END code block of that package in LIFO order just before the interpreter is being exited." < 1323817622 760334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone actually uses UNITCHECK, CHECK, or INIT < 1323817679 405011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess UNITCHECK could be useful. < 1323817697 247563 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: later chat < 1323817886 464667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Because the old-fashioned syntax is still supported for backwards compatibility, if you try to use a string like "This is $owner's house" , you'll be accessing $owner::s ; that is, the $s variable in package owner , which is probably not what you meant. " < 1323817893 579355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's a nice little gotcha < 1323817914 438947 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323817937 834733 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use LWP'Simple 'get'; print get("http://www.google.com/"); < 1323817938 537574 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate LWP/Simple.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /tmp/input.6122 line 1. < 1323817951 759436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1323817956 691569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is going to use ' instead of :: now :P < 1323818100 856377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a package called m, s, or y, then you can't use the qualified form of an identifier because it would be instead interpreted as a pattern match, a substitution, or a transliteration. < 1323818104 907951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahahaha < 1323818117 557355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION names his Perl web app framework m < 1323818295 938962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't define an import method < 1323818313 69339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have no way of accessing anything. < 1323818458 515469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could use %m:: and access the symbol table < 1323818711 473609 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323818893 94186 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make this kind of commutative applicative: a *> z = z <* a < 1323818911 809341 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is a communist functor/applicative/monad? < 1323818963 663290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: functor/applicative/monads that believe in a class-less Haskell. (I have no idea) < 1323818988 726116 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323819111 837889 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323819135 350946 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323819280 353589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] *> [4,5,6] < 1323819281 195936 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,5,6,4,5,6,4,5,6] < 1323819303 83170 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [4,5,6] <* [1,2,3] < 1323819303 872808 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6] < 1323819316 313848 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1323819409 389714 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323819447 183878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd want flip (liftA2 const) = liftA2 (const id) < 1323819448 202497 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It doesn't apply to list, it is not commutative < 1323819601 641257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1323819602 811604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323819659 973298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you want to be commutative again? < 1323819692 469903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mean, some applicatives are commutative < 1323819714 413363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323819746 666718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it sounded like you were asking if such a thing existed. < 1323819765 723879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :By writing like f <$> x <*> y = flip f <$> y <*> x < 1323819793 611252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently commutative monad is the same but with join. < 1323819793 827237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (*>) < 1323819794 554752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f a -> f b -> f b < 1323819799 47081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*) < 1323819799 851648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f a -> f b -> f a < 1323819843 613937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Maybe and Reader are commutative, iirc < 1323819857 877643 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe is, yes. < 1323819864 869626 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Maybe is commutative < 1323819879 957648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was your question? < 1323819891 705917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< zzo38> Can you make this kind of commutative applicative: a *> z = z <* a < 1323819910 903071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any applicative commutative in the usual sense should fulfil that < 1323819923 712778 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is to do a *> z = z <* a rather than f <$> x <*> y = flip f <$> y <*> x are there a difference? < 1323819929 981649 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323819938 110924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1323819942 879477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm there _might_ be < 1323819955 308229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for *>, f = const id < 1323819962 948635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is there a different between commutative applicative and commutative monad? Commutative applicative makes more sense to me < 1323819963 667974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for <*, f = const < 1323819994 379627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip const < 1323819995 141066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. a -> b -> b < 1323819997 946314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (const id) < 1323819998 774250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b -> a < 1323820005 581011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think i showed the other day that they are the same thing, you just apply an extra join to get the monad version < 1323820027 485218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an extra return to get the applicative one < 1323820043 694330 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I think elliott wrote the code for the commutative monads and it seem to me, it is the same thing but with join. < 1323820064 574091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :do x <- mx; y <- my; f x y = join $ liftM2 f x y < 1323820117 158322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1323820117 336174 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that was the code they showed to me and I realized it is same as your code < 1323820124 885860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* do x <- mx; y <- my; f x y = join $ liftM2 f mx my < 1323820133 215575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is better < 1323820160 998532 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there an applicative that isn't a monad? < 1323820174 217537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 f mx my = do x <- mx; y <- my; (\x y -> return (f x y)) x y < 1323820227 872310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a free applicative defined with a GADT, for example < 1323820237 86399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"free"? < 1323820284 842004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data FreeA where Pure :: a -> FreeA a; (:<*>) :: (FreeA (a -> b)) -> FreeA a -> FreeA b < 1323820288 606775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1323820292 658097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that kind of free. < 1323820308 587355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't know that had a name. < 1323820348 878374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i'm not sure if that's quite right, but something like that; anyhow the point is to construct something which obviously allows _just_ the Applicative operations < 1323820397 253081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing above is probably too simple < 1323820474 655714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it keeps getting discussed how to make an Applicative which isn't a Monad and i keep forgetting the examples < 1323820537 25622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is co-applicative a thing? < 1323820571 29301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323820582 249748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1323820597 789203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :impure :: FreeA a -> a < 1323820679 905809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/FreeA/g/ < 1323820725 932734 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what would (>*<) be? < 1323820752 53061 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric