< 1325030415 505717 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to disallow based on algorithmic differences, but I guess that makes it easier to compare?? I don't know. < 1325030432 891946 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325030436 569677 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1325030440 734444 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that it's subjective to decide what constitutes an algorithmic difference. < 1325030449 438940 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sort of. < 1325030459 112024 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The maintainer claims to have a policy of rejecting differing algorithms, but allows programs with and without parallelism for the same task. < 1325030462 645170 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is an algorithmic difference. < 1325030463 741034 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, a good way of choosing to accept or not might be "shortest non-trivial, non-overly-naive solution" < 1325030468 943755 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's highly subjective. < 1325030503 51742 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's pretty much meaningless without further criteria. < 1325030522 329251 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-trivial means you're not calling sort. < 1325030530 119392 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-overly-naive means you're not bogosorting < 1325030576 297990 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325030583 832790 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if calling sort is the fastest implementation of sort < 1325030592 570604 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no using libraries" < 1325030597 957818 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's silly. < 1325030607 538790 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well. < 1325030613 510635 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that's if the problem is "sort this list" < 1325030650 889827 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about "no making the library do the entire job" so it's a comparison of things implemented in the language and not the standard library. < 1325030686 704876 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's sort is implemented in Haskell. < 1325030691 252096 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's still fairly arbitrary. < 1325030703 892818 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can see the rationale, I guess. < 1325030740 215347 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same reason I'd like all of the Python-C API, Haskell FFI, etc entries to not be counted. < 1325030839 79187 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname: Is the benchmark game not a competition to see who's language is fastest and shortest? < 1325030849 431428 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is surely a testament to an implementation if < 1325030851 983576 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = interact sort < 1325030858 79090 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :produces an extremely fast sorting program. < 1325030874 929679 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't say much about programming in the language. < 1325030885 911392 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does. < 1325030900 554693 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are likely to use sort when programming in Haskell and in need of a sorting algorithm. < 1325030907 296068 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least. < 1325030918 563827 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't say much about programming non-trival things in the language. < 1325030931 657016 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might be able to pull things like that off easily, but, more complex, and things fall apart. < 1325030933 967514 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And HQ9+ can't be beat when it comes to 99 bottles of beer on the wall < 1325030936 192228 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are less likely to write everything in C and then hook up to the language implementation. < 1325030994 540438 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it can, probably. 99 bottles of beer on the wall require a character. < 1325031012 131760 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : But it doesn't say much about programming in the language. < 1325031013 459311 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it meant to? < 1325031019 990610 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: language where everything is 99 bottles of beer on the wall? < 1325031026 644971 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a fixed set of simple problems; the idea is to get bragging rights by showing your implementation fastest and shortest. < 1325031034 856230 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, or at least, the empty program < 1325031041 645462 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a very fast standard-library sort, then it would be against the purpose of the game not to use it. < 1325031047 918689 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty program is a thing, after all < 1325031066 835020 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homespring special-cases it < 1325031072 809160 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the language benchmark game is indicative of what is at least possible in terms of performance, but isn't really indicative of what "normal programs" do. < 1325031121 738637 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one is very difficult to determine. < 1325031135 636575 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit. < 1325031143 398612 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are warnings plastered all over the site saying exactly that. < 1325031152 529104 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you have a large sample of wild programs, how do you categorize them so that you can determine that program in language X does the same thing as program in language Y. < 1325031193 133804 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Homespring special-cases it < 1325031202 222544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Special-cases' seems a bit odd in that context. < 1325031218 695481 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It actually does, though? < 1325031254 371326 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :homespring is interesting in that the null program is not a quine. :) < 1325031302 749829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, but everything is a special-case, isn't it? < 1325031320 228452 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is doing nothing on the null program any less of a special case? < 1325031339 528891 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't do nothing? < 1325031351 202893 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think you know what Homespring is? < 1325031359 700183 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Homespring does not do nothing on the null program. < 1325031363 564655 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that. < 1325031379 885940 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It prints "In Homespring, the null program is not a quine.", or words to that effect. < 1325031410 179180 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325031418 213079 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Homespring isn't just a collection of special cases? < 1325031422 244667 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an actual language. < 1325031432 206518 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One whose semantics presumably do not print out that string on the null program. < 1325031434 949093 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's a special case. < 1325031533 109053 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone written a Homespring quine? < 1325031560 158040 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1325031593 853043 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325031643 628311 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/performance.php?test=threadring I find it kind of interesting that he includes the GHC program but not the Java 7 server program < 1325031708 724820 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is listed as an "interesting alternative" < 1325031804 709361 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325031815 230813 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are alternate implementations of programs whose main implementations appear in the previous table. < 1325031830 484917 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I understand that. < 1325031852 58237 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's an actual language. < 1325031852 545859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : One whose semantics presumably do not print out that string on the null program. < 1325031877 185931 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't see how you can infer the behaviour of the null program based on the behaviour of all the other programs. < 1325031891 936209 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't. it's a special case. < 1325031978 697374 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um, an inductive definition? < 1325031990 955127 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Consider defining the semantics of BF as [Ins]. < 1325032000 367923 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on. < 1325032003 186940 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The semantics of the null program is to do nothing. < 1325032014 459701 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The semantics of add followed by program p is to increment [...] followed by the semantics of p. < 1325032015 849907 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1325032018 602734 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called a base case. < 1325032029 292666 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting, Haskell beats everything on the thread-ring challenge except for Erlang on the x86 Ubuntu Intel Q66000 one core. < 1325032038 371222 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325032039 401356 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x64 < 1325032061 79074 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Obviously given a black box homespring-without-null-program interpreter you can't deduce the behaviour; it's a property of the mathematical specification. < 1325032070 804100 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Haskell's threading is really good. < 1325032084 730402 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: that wasn't the interesting art. < 1325032084 983282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Null program does whatever. (inst:insts) is the base case. < 1325032087 538243 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+p < 1325032097 967417 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: I was wondering why Erlang wins in that case. < 1325032116 733853 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Erlang also has really good threading. < 1325032121 766389 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What? < 1325032125 5830 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You don't know what a base case is. < 1325032129 934848 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr < 1325032130 943087 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b < 1325032134 413614 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second argument is base case. < 1325032137 534159 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First argument is induction step. < 1325032143 812189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, I know how inductive definitions and recursion work, thank you very much. < 1325032154 447302 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, so don't make statements in direct contradiction of those. < 1325032187 308959 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: the same Erlang program runs much slower on all the other machines. And then suddenly is the fastest on this particular machine. < 1325032190 503612 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-002-180.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325032198 95228 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Oh. I parsed your statement differently. < 1325032198 372361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you seem to be picking one specific model and saying it's the only legitimate one, in such a way that I've lost track completely of what I was saying. < 1325032199 732171 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is still pretty strange to me, regardless of "X language has good threading" < 1325032204 867986 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Are the others >1-core? < 1325032210 39036 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Erlang's VM is single-threaded. < 1325032218 913344 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: one other is 1-core. < 1325032219 839722 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, you're just not really making any sense. < 1325032230 450463 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Of course you can deduce the behaviour of the null program given a specification of the language. < 1325032233 452571 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/performance.php?test=threadring < 1325032238 863075 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homespring's spec specifically says that the null program is handled specially. < 1325032242 129135 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1325032243 364813 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64/performance.php?test=threadring < 1325032245 911881 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specially, i.e. not according to the rules defined elsewhere. < 1325032248 992139 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Dunno then. < 1325032252 378820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, if the language doesn't specify what the null program does, you can't deduce that. < 1325032307 297728 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No shit? < 1325032321 524091 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is basically what I am saying? < 1325032323 754912 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: the only difference is that it's 64-bit. Could Erlang be faster on a 64-bit machine for some reason? < 1325032345 728373 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The point is that any reasonable definition will, and you haven't given any evidence that Homespring's spec doesn't, so it just seems like you're complaining about a perfectly valid use of "special case" that the original document itself uses for the sake of it. < 1325032347 371138 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Maybe. < 1325032362 47070 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*single-threaded 64-bit < 1325032370 724217 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/single-threaded/one core/ < 1325032381 265982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once again lost track of what you're saying completely. < 1325032433 93559 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hoyle On Poker: A Dead White Guy Teaches You How To Think Like One" < 1325032476 510847 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wild cards must be less than seventeen per deck. < 1325032603 328856 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: also, Haskell performs comparatively poorly on another threading task. http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=chameneosredux < 1325032718 69031 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not really sure what "symmetrical thread rendezvous" is < 1325032723 459032 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds romantic. < 1325032744 46960 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Haskell is not very good at love? :( < 1325032766 380363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need lighter headphones in the future. < 1325032793 232279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wrong channel < 1325032839 39376 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need lighter headphones in the future. < 1325032857 793651 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, wrong person < 1325032877 310419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325032906 972374 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"allocate and deallocate many binary trees" so you have to force them to be garbage collected in Haskell? < 1325032914 351144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, /anyway/ the reason was that I just had my headphones on for like 5 hours straight due to watching a live stream and then listening to a podcast < 1325032916 59425 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- normally you would ensure the branches are lazy, but this benchmark < 1325032916 792391 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- requires strict allocation. < 1325032917 833071 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325032930 265289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, but I didn't intend to discuss that in this channel < 1325032937 228363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, it would be so sgeo to discuss that < 1325032938 537695 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-018-092.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325032990 884175 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's kind of beautiful that "Sgeo" and "Vorpal" are both adjectives now. < 1325033003 660058 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name is too long to fall prey to such slander. < 1325033029 780576 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The Haskell benchmark game programs would be better if the maintainer wasn't biased like that :) < 1325033043 155900 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, I would just not restrict the algorithms at all. < 1325033055 741580 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone comes up with a massively better algorithm, is it really unreasonable to expect everyone else to copy it? < 1325033097 65658 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of these benchmarks are DNA-related < 1325033110 283126 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be called "How well programs compute DNA stuff" < 1325033119 791363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, heh < 1325033126 857058 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like "how well programs compute string manipulation" < 1325033138 937405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : My name is too long to fall prey to such slander. <-- that is a very elliott thing to say < 1325033179 551746 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Shut up you colloinkgravisom piece of shit. < 1325033186 382787 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're so Phantom_Hoover. < 1325033186 539823 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: I guess it's a testament to JAva's garbage collection that it actually performs better than C++ on the allocate/deallocate binary trees. < 1325033191 358294 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :JAva. < 1325033202 200239 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How might one be Phantom_Hoover. < 1325033216 186677 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it involve being incredibly witty, charming, suave and good-looking? < 1325033227 368379 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, just gay and vampiric. < 1325033229 400226 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Twilight. < 1325033257 476701 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: witty, charming, suave, and good-looking is more about being kallisti, really. < 1325033264 534348 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally "to the fairest" < 1325033294 282260 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, Wikipedia says "to the most beautiful" but that's because Wikipedia is racist. < 1325033476 498894 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4d0b7ec1.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325033496 111425 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should add another parameter to the language benchmark game, where they image the programmer's brain while programming and quantify how much joy they are experiencing. < 1325033565 561278 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP would rank worst. < 1325033603 229799 :calamari!~calamari@173-116-114-170.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325033610 414519 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42324.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325033717 756020 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python would rank releatively high because lolzealots. All male Ruby fans would actually have erections while programming. < 1325033838 295813 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's unfair to say though, because all languages have this inexplicable overzealous following (except maybe PHP, no one actually likes PHP) < 1325033853 895982 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, even the people in ##php don't like PHP < 1325033904 464145 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Just wait until you can subscript arbitrary expressions. < 1325033911 880534 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they'll be like "OMG SO EXPRESSIVE" < 1325033925 240714 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is true; I don't really like PHP either. < 1325034019 903357 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: didn't they even give it a name or something? < 1325034023 405694 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it's something special. < 1325034057 220596 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is as special as the paamayim nekudotayim < 1325034062 237665 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.paamayim-nekudotayim.php < 1325034079 124542 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which actually appears in error messages < 1325034081 772850 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no hint as to what it is at all < 1325034164 11030 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1325034193 874122 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Paamayim Nekudotayim" is double colon < 1325034198 989228 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess perl has some equally colorful terminology. < 1325034229 682957 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't call method on non-blessed hashref or whatever. < 1325034255 994943 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, yes < 1325034279 355931 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the abbreviation is FAD < 1325034305 525359 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: !+fad < 1325034305 682533 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo, Want to be able to access array elements like this: function()[0]? It's called function array dereferencing, and it's coming in PHP 5.4. < 1325034306 910678 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cci-209150237034.clarityconnect.net QUIT :Quit: DAMN YOU LIGHTLINK < 1325034323 530832 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is on rc4!!! < 1325034420 826488 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are now talking about disadvantages of FAD < 1325034423 402532 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly abuse < 1325034426 470762 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325034434 2431 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is dreading having to debug code that looks like $foo()->bar()[1]->baz('bat')[0]" < 1325034446 136233 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1325034447 565168 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1325034466 24646 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP programmers are worse than Python programs when it comes to aversion to nested expressions, I guess. < 1325034505 727639 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't tell them about functional programming < 1325034509 735353 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, really: don't) < 1325034526 799008 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Perl. < 1325034529 548536 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell them about Perl. < 1325034551 109007 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "PHP is language defined by a tool built by some guys who saw a Perl interpreter once and thought it was really neat. They thought that it would just rock to make a similar tool that lived in a webserver and whose default operation was print." < 1325034575 759022 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is this from. < 1325034595 465539 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/about/php.html < 1325034632 840134 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of the most interesting aspects [of PHP version 2] included the way while loops were implemented. The hand-crafted lexical scanner would go through the script and when it hit the while keyword it would remember its position in the file. At the end of the loop, the file pointer sought back to the saved position, and the whole loop was reread and re-executed." < 1325034637 844411 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooool < 1325034817 725337 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I would have to say the single greatest software engineering achievement of PHP is how it taught us all that programming should never be done without having constantly within arm's reach a book with a photo of the author's face on it." < 1325034841 471858 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why Haskell hasn't caught on, yet. Unless Bonus is an elephant < 1325034955 464892 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually kind of blows my mind that PHP is faster than Perl in the benchmark game. < 1325034990 544131 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Benchmarks are only a good measure of surprise < 1325035020 540618 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Benchmarks are only a good measure of surprise < 1325035023 842441 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :783) Benchmarks are only a good measure of surprise < 1325035027 860612 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is still slow. Even though, some of my programs are PHP implementation of other programming language, such as FurryScript and Icoruma. That makes it very slow. I might eventually rewrite Icoruma in C or Haskell. < 1325035036 341163 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("A good measure of only surprise" would haev been better, though.) < 1325035057 578996 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1325035112 789384 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1325035197 187287 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/about/cplusplus.html < 1325035208 718018 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gratuitous expertise is a phrase I will be using daily from now on < 1325035219 695666 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping for more than "mostly harmless" on "About Python" < 1325035220 967833 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may put that on a résumé < 1325035285 42454 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Can you think of anything *better* to say about Python? < 1325035303 577153 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perl is what happens when you play Katamari Damacy with the Unix toolchain." < 1325035333 103741 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an accurate description. < 1325035430 682294 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet, the IRC client I am using is written in PHP and it runs sufficiently fast. < 1325035446 566206 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It processes every single keystroke, even.) < 1325035470 110556 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hax < 1325035479 387621 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, clients that process every kysroke are overtd < 1325035513 469942 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325035544 309625 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has to process every keystroke in order to work. < 1325035554 749425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: Can you think of anything *better* to say about Python? < 1325035564 641492 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something something something Sierpinski numbers? < 1325035591 932062 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Scheme's better at that, anyway < 1325035622 129745 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, how do they relate to Python? < 1325035629 760827 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm having an acid flashback < 1325035648 843014 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NihilistDandy: Better at what? < 1325035651 694234 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom, they were invented as a result of an amusingly stupid example in the Python docs. < 1325035674 868433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mentioned that it allowed you to add a set of numbers between C and R, and we were wondering what that would be. < 1325035676 564237 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-018-092.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325035692 347074 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: Sierpinski numbers :D < 1325035727 876519 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ohh, right. < 1325035751 782132 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Are the Sierpinski numbers actually closed under anything, though. < 1325035755 13402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1325035768 797404 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How... good? < 1325035789 39406 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weeeellll, I don't recall if I actually proved that they weren't closed under multiplication, but I strongly suspect they weren't. < 1325036574 776908 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325036594 859848 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-008-155.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325037079 413399 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What fun things can I do with this loltablet :P < 1325037088 509102 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no idea what to do with it. < 1325037422 541197 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cracked.com/article_18983_5-complaints-about-modern-life-that-are-statistically-b.s..html < 1325037434 385684 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: turn it into a touchscreen synthesizer. < 1325037440 391818 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is that an obnoxious or non-obnoxious Cracked article. < 1325037445 194599 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-obnoxious < 1325037446 277991 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also dude the screen is only 7 inches < 1325037455 782293 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But developing Haskell stuff on it could be cool I guess. < 1325037459 482412 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: optimize for efficient screen space use. < 1325037467 674374 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when designing your synthesizer. < 1325037497 46576 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Pls verify veracity of obnoxiousness claim,. < 1325037500 269958 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clam. < 1325037515 153145 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: it's like, informative and stuff. < 1325037633 720992 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: That's kinda the issue, isn't it. < 1325037677 875599 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: SO TEMPTED TO INSTALL INFERNO ON IT < 1325037695 524451 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *HELLAPHONE < 1325037697 315162 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellablet. < 1325037719 92434 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet mac book pro and hellablet < 1325037886 522842 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Sorry I am ragequitting this article because they're dissing Sugar Sugar which is the BEST WORST SONG EVER. < 1325037914 788059 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Pls verify veracity of obnoxiousness claim,. < 1325037919 4104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-obnoxious. < 1325037926 421733 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[Rock music] is deplorable. It is tribal. And it is from America. It follows ragtime, blues, jazz, hot cha-cha and the boogie-woogie, which surely originated in the jungle. We sometimes wonder whether this is the negro's revenge." < 1325037926 578072 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read more: 5 Complaints About Modern Life (That Are Statistically B.S.) | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_18983_5-complaints-about-modern-life-that-are-statistically-b.s._p2.html#ixzz1hn6RlHL9 < 1325037931 553726 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK they won me back over with Daily Mail quotes. < 1325037932 130086 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH < 1325037932 497887 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU < 1325037933 225682 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCKING < 1325037933 921151 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :COPY PASTE < 1325037935 97598 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCRIPT < 1325037935 802160 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASS < 1325037937 960809 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF < 1325037939 963988 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT < 1325037952 143007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put GPS+Astrolog in that computer < 1325037956 809297 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok < 1325037992 625352 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Astrolog has no GPS input; but source-codes is available (although not free-software/open-source, probably due to licensing issues with other parts it was combined with), so it could be modified to have it) < 1325038035 180499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1325038036 9488 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325038036 954657 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: but they're dissing Sugar Sugar while BRINGING UP AN INTERESTING POINT ABOUT POPULAR MUSIC COMPARED TO TIMELESS CLASSICS. < 1325038041 246967 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D53F.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325038044 984789 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally, if you push "n" it uses the current date/time and takes the coordinates from the default setting (which you can change), but if it have GPS, then it can be made to, instead, take the coordinates from the GPS. < 1325038061 218722 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it can take the time from the GPS too, if it is possible to do so. < 1325038082 77195 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if GPS does give time info. < 1325038146 108521 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: do you like Radiohead? < 1325038146 307238 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astrolog even has a world map on it, and the ability to draw on any chart. Maybe it will sometimes be useful with that kind of computer. < 1325038159 54914 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is one of those asshole radiohead fans.
< 1325038201 537094 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asshole Radiohead: famous asshole, band. < 1325038213 225071 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their asses are holes, their radios heads. < 1325038218 241383 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their surgeons general. < 1325038239 931920 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: that's a sweet ass-car < 1325038253 65686 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like a sweet xk-cd. < 1325038262 125051 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1325038283 364888 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also the only one I would describe as "GOOMH Randall" < 1325038301 971369 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Describing anything like that is unforgivable sin. < 1325038332 652664 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: recall that it was actually your linking to xkcdsucks that made me familiar with the term < 1325038335 573613 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can blame yourself. < 1325038410 926210 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is unable to read "GOOMH" as anything but a single word "goomh" pronounced "goomh".
< 1325038415 827954 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same. < 1325038423 543816 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOMH elliott. < 1325038435 229447 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you able to make Astrolog with GPS input on Android based computer? < 1325038437 77710 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goomh Colloinkgravisom. < 1325038440 638779 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Probably? < 1325038445 742286 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't Astrolog Windows-only. < 1325038462 764933 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-gb --finnish 50 < 1325038468 402936 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :absorman poilem munifeby isopergekry fponn poppim fnfpeach pera lolustam vina nouthangeke sorrbv quirallato scsista elwinderiut noure sekened artaterive laiser lysoidassur bestoarvoimmat seueatteell yhemprobo mowned pros cemenen latiii buryhmivationikiot ski suutorimen her virarchesf lenrecollessum wybui alencziansagni iljaaotta direämmembreet eldobbatii äußerdidalwa old fennari törkeämmte ihorj firmuseva deanamremque < 1325038482 791321 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnfpeach < 1325038496 21004 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :laiser < 1325038511 336711 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Astrolog is also available for DOS and UNIX as well as Windows. < 1325038557 452572 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you've been lazy with the direämmembreets lately < 1325038604 425151 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fennari < 1325038610 368799 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have known that, while I was making fun of you constantly for updating us about MSPA, I actually used it as a source of information at the same time. < 1325038610 553616 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihorj: international house of real jews < 1325038638 386465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will you need a compiler C into Java to do so? < 1325038705 627570 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines the horribleness of that.
< 1325038721 518260 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, Android runs Linux, it just has a srtipped down libc and few traditional tools. < 1325038731 306659 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I don't see any updates < 1325038740 638960 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the UI stuff is Java, so you have to write some Java glue code, presumably with JNI or whatever. < 1325038741 381122 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, and I'm not always by IRC < 1325038741 765311 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you missed the last one, or didn't ping me or something < 1325038744 397560 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know people do Android stuff in C. < 1325038745 520857 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: jerk < 1325038753 332782 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, what, you want me to write a bot? < 1325038761 851460 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want you to do whatever it takes < 1325038763 724919 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to inform me < 1325038765 843467 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually < 1325038769 842696 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily instantaneously < 1325038773 63704 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but within a reasonable timeframe. < 1325038776 415515 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I will be upset. < 1325038780 664700 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and think of you as a lesser person. < 1325038792 230876 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, people actually do coffee enemas. < 1325038797 528367 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: yep < 1325038818 581026 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a standard processor code or do you need to compile native code differently for different devices? < 1325038836 727756 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ok, when I'm updated away from IRC, I'll try to remember to update #esoteric eventually < 1325038840 81252 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't think there's any actual Android device that runs something that isn't ARM. < 1325038843 968881 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the x86 port isn't really official. < 1325038867 807722 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: also: sears catalogs used to sell vibrators. < 1325038917 671605 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the first vibrators was a steam-powered device called the "Manipulator", which was created by American physician George Taylor, M.D.[2] This machine was a rather awkward device, but was still heralded as some relief for the doctors who found themselves suffering from fatigued wrists and hands. < 1325038923 130909 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooool < 1325038923 937949 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find this notion hilarious. < 1325038984 742341 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "pelvic massage" was especially common in the treatment of female hysteria during the Victorian Era, as the point of such manipulation was to cause "hysterical paroxysm" (orgasm) in the patient. However, not only did they regard the "vulvular stimulation" required as having nothing to do with sex, but reportedly found it time-consuming and hard work. < 1325038989 726305 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've come so far. < 1325039516 115429 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are unofficial Android variants such as Replicant (which removes all proprietary Google stuff from the system), so will many softwares work with it? < 1325039546 951850 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1325039950 265341 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325040151 607839 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to buy the Wolfram Alpha app and NOBODY CAN STOP ME < 1325040165 869074 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1325040192 917776 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from kallisti or someone who I guess could theoretically talk me out of it. < 1325040240 575622 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the battery running out which it seems like it might soonish. < 1325040268 237649 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom: wat < 1325040270 354653 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1325040272 740555 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you even thinking < 1325040275 454568 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you spend MONEY < 1325040277 359713 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a THING < 1325040279 197551 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1325040284 262051 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a) not going to be all that useful to you < 1325040287 974427 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) freely available on the internet < 1325040357 725954 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um dude it will let me calculate the number of calories in one solar mass of hamburgers with a COMPLETELY STREAMLINED USER INTERFACE < 1325040372 804227 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D.? < 1325040391 708733 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it's under 2 pounds. < 1325040438 668491 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two pounds too many. < 1325040472 648961 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said under; it's like 1 pound 20 pence. < 1325040500 266892 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not worth it. < 1325040521 761633 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not worth it. < 1325040553 114369 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NBC gig grill jerk used Maghull cashbox shriek org leash go padraig gothic etc period < 1325040564 185926 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFK Fagan finish Dougherty offtrack habitation orthodOX captor disposal < 1325040581 178979 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stream of Bruno Garth FL JFK fashion poster ricochet fibrinogen hard SC wb JFK < 1325040595 224107 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm W|A has improved a little bit since last I used it to do calculus homework for me. < 1325040618 337523 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibrinogen is a word? < 1325040713 907205 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf "hepatisis patient height" is a valid query. < 1325040725 853218 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hepatitis < 1325040779 988709 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not "your mom's girth". < 1325040808 15100 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't fit in a bignum. < 1325040843 682778 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go to sleep soon. < 1325040899 736673 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-008-155.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325041188 769670 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Result: 1.1×10^-26 kW/Cal (kilowatts per dietary Calorie) (2007 estimate) < 1325041205 682019 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I asked wolfram alpha "Germany electricity consumption / calories in a solar mass of Burger King hamburgers" < 1325041209 897374 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh Lord. < 1325041221 206752 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screen is glitching. < 1325041376 739571 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325041605 18534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, wow < 1325041692 131730 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325041719 886579 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-046-009.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325041751 623608 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's apparently 2.73e-27 hertz?? what? < 1325041758 595384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, what is? < 1325041761 869634 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that figure < 1325041769 385124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it be in hertz? < 1325041771 988211 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I misunderstand the "unit conversions" section. < 1325041772 144664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1325041792 987473 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Germany+electricity+consumption+%2F+calories+in+a+solar+mass+of+Burger+King+hamburgers < 1325041797 730807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks
< 1325041811 664871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have: kW < 1325041811 822844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want: < 1325041811 822917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Definition: kilo W = 1000 kg m^2 / s^3 < 1325041813 293194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325041816 703093 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are seconds there? < 1325041829 588750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have: cal < 1325041829 821560 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want: < 1325041829 977642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Definition: calorie = cal_IT = 4.1868 J = 4.1868 kg m^2 / s^2 < 1325041830 703839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there < 1325041848 67738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if they cancel each other out? < 1325041852 159799 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once someone entered "how much beer can i drink" and it came up with an answer in units of inches to the sixth power. Now it gives different output because it interprets the input differently. But in both cases it is not what is intended. < 1325041857 503803 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1325041858 12010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have: kW / cal < 1325041858 168406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want: < 1325041858 324961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Definition: 238.8459 / s < 1325041859 449395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1325041859 606010 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do. < 1325041862 371872 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you divide < 1325041865 929083 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, indeed < 1325041867 569211 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leaves you with s^-1 < 1325041873 596260 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is hertz < 1325041877 463737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325041891 916683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, for these things units(1) is better than Wolfram Alpha :P < 1325041900 44011 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to interpret what the hell that means. < 1325041917 772255 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how it gets another different answer from what it was last time I tried before. < 1325041922 510088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, I don't think the whole sodding thing means anything :P < 1325041928 841005 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks about hertz and how they could relate to german electricity consumption per calories in a solar mass of burger king hamburgers
< 1325041954 57492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, shouldn't you get an unit-less ratio out of this? < 1325041961 544205 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325041966 526720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1325041966 682749 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of those quantities have units. < 1325041971 302721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1325041975 282338 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are not directly inverse. < 1325041981 727322 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore there is a unit. < 1325041985 935836 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the result of dividing them. < 1325041992 654335 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It asked if I wanted to make it interpret it as a multiplication, so I selected that option and it came up with an imaginary number of square drinks (I don't know what kind of unit that is?) < 1325041994 425613 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, not directly equal rather < 1325041997 70195 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you're dividing < 1325042004 83683 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were multiplying inverses you would get a unitless quantity. < 1325042005 359453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oh right, is that "german electricity consumption per year"? < 1325042015 833562 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325042031 458488 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :KW-hours per year < 1325042036 832409 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8651316/is-there-a-functional-representation-for-strict-evaluation < 1325042046 200123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kWh just means some number of J < 1325042058 884443 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it still cannot compute ecliptic coordinates < 1325042069 379359 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cal translates into J as well iirc < 1325042071 594539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mean J/y / J < 1325042074 475882 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even though their blog once mentions ecliptic coordinates) < 1325042079 686470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which cancels out to give hertz < 1325042081 533007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325042142 655123 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom: well? you better get to answering < 1325042147 923541 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want your SO rep to go up. < 1325042163 229592 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should explicitly mention how seq has side-effects. < 1325042168 569156 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is important. < 1325042169 30172 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti, for these things units(1) is better than Wolfram Alpha :P < 1325042176 240726 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drink!!!!! < 1325042178 624283 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325042180 240949 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seem < 1325042181 280575 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drink!!!!!! < 1325042182 786907 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seem < 1325042183 797768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, at least I find it easier to use < 1325042185 970780 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seem < 1325042188 613844 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seem < 1325042189 7675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't get the reference < 1325042191 933367 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1325042196 744136 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frink < 1325042199 356603 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325042202 706770 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325042202 863210 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally. < 1325042204 6162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :frink < 1325042205 755940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325042211 417771 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seem! < 1325042212 340872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, seem? really? < 1325042217 486693 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325042231 70561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, I guess that keyboard app wasn't that good when you type names of things < 1325042244 766459 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "erm". < 1325042248 714108 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325042259 768643 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The paths are almost identical, so... < 1325042266 289281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325042267 276181 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink kW/kilocalorie < 1325042271 808572 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's really quite lovely in general < 1325042276 982673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325042280 125301 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is hackego so slooooowww... < 1325042280 281776 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2500/10467 (approx. 0.23884589662749595) s^-1 (frequency) < 1325042288 160959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, because iirc it runs on codu < 1325042298 176208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is slooow < 1325042302 611523 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run time frink kW/kilocalorie < 1325042314 256040 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2500/10467 (approx. 0.23884589662749595) s^-1 (frequency) \ \ real.0m8.490s \ user 0m8.660s \ sys.0m0.250s < 1325042319 441883 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frink is slow to start up to boot < 1325042337 352893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else can frink do? < 1325042343 182883 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything. < 1325042345 21870 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs in 3 seconds on my machine. < 1325042348 874752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that? < 1325042349 335358 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1325042351 266157 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :user time. < 1325042362 735870 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google the dogs, they're amazing < 1325042366 294923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it in ubuntu repos? < 1325042366 996061 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1325042374 663961 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325042381 999304 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, got a link then? < 1325042387 750150 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://google.com < 1325042388 136078 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted bohlen-pierce music, so I typed in "bohlen-pierce" and its answer is 7646 km < 1325042400 322128 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom: don't worry, I've got this covered. < 1325042418 659985 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom: you can save yourself from trying to use your shitty keyboard to talk to Vorpal. < 1325042421 961498 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it's (the single best) closed source thing I've ever used < 1325042432 941829 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully it's fully extensible. < 1325042433 558579 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325042433 715161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh closed source, right < 1325042438 299084 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1325042451 977806 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom: better than dwarf fortress? < 1325042453 266615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit version around? Or do I need to mess with 32-bit libraries? < 1325042460 728444 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: fsvo sorry < 1325042463 704605 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1325042466 334274 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1325042468 719483 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sit < 1325042470 41660 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325042471 616476 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325042483 425120 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, that typing thing sucks I think < 1325042483 770873 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtual: it's java < 1325042492 515058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual? really? < 1325042492 989925 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-046-009.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325042493 838859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is that < 1325042502 941460 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it's fifty times better than iPhone keyboard < 1325042506 710907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1325042514 969027 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my blackberry keyboard is awesome. < 1325042520 190887 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't know your nicks though < 1325042524 422581 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1325042526 540415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, but compare to an actual keyboard. It is less bulky sure, but typing accuracy seems terrible < 1325042537 497838 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only because I'm going way too far < 1325042542 120959 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast < 1325042551 490003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, I should so change to a nick like ][_a328ds < 1325042552 690884 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only started using it yesterday < 1325042566 629977 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems wrong so I entered "what is wrong with you" and its answer is "Human Discourse: Additional functionality for this topic is under development..." < 1325042598 672294 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when I used to show incoherent babble with my iPhone every night? < 1325042608 32639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, I tried to forget < 1325042611 657241 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I use a computer instead. < 1325042622 967428 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windsor. < 1325042626 878968 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windsor. < 1325042629 343375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1325042631 619451 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windsor. < 1325042637 706217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on < 1325042637 936399 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timeout < 1325042642 86667 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now make up a open-source/free-software version of a similar thing, so that everyone can correct it if it has these kind of problem < 1325042647 902477 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325042669 705767 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325042691 274127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, idea: read line then decide if you actually want to send it. < 1325042693 79232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You might even if it is wrong, for the comedic value. I assume that is what you are doing actually) < 1325042705 176231 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw I'm deliberately trying to say things I know won't be in its dictionary for comedy purposes < 1325042715 137379 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1325042718 680633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :figures < 1325042729 799881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, what were you trying to say instead of "Windsor"? < 1325042735 739723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually "timeout"? < 1325042740 503165 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ringgit. < 1325042743 254031 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh < 1325042745 291336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325042749 220334 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rimshot < 1325042757 604957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ringgit is not even a real word < 1325042771 485758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could that be in the dictionary < 1325042775 405486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes /no/ sense < 1325042776 504455 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sigh was actually an argh < 1325042782 246387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1325042806 733881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, I'm actually laughing out loud thanks to this but there are people sleeping in the next room < 1325042807 656278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325042810 671718 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325042830 640772 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just sooooo playing for the comedic presuppose please < 1325042851 645584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325042853 481977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1325042859 280157 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooooo? SERIOUSLY? < 1325042863 276603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :presuppose? seriously? < 1325042871 210312 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a word exclamation marks < 1325042888 701408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325042898 485119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wrote out "exclamation marks"? < 1325042902 596761 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-all 25 < 1325042906 336697 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, admittedly < 1325042909 417302 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :formode postaft prepa eul grit ambiecurr olbau zre poult rich nob ping flyiatherasyah curly hratysell blach sedenting ceri ocapu uni vexegel colefficefn bach yol baitj < 1325042909 573773 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that < 1325042909 946139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, aww < 1325042933 799343 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would cause the real time to faster than the user time. < 1325042937 188090 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me try and type that word output < 1325042937 987438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, " Just sooooo playing for the comedic presuppose please" <-- what /were/ you trying to say? < 1325042951 810151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :type that word output? < 1325042954 627227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325042996 278316 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"User+Sys will tell you how much actual CPU time your process used. Note that this is across all CPUs, so if the process has multiple threads it could potentially exceed the wall clock time reported by Real." < 1325043000 382284 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325043009 178385 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dormouse p post period will get it Albrecht play are our rich Nov ping gooseflesh curly hardshell blah assenting CEO I pappy uni verbal Colleen Bach tool batik < 1325043017 400031 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOSEFLESH < 1325043023 938709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, ... < 1325043050 502723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, this is too absurd to be funny. Because there is no way I can even guess what was meant < 1325043080 401214 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reproducing the output of the words program < 1325043081 940090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, and gooseflesh seems fairly reasonable < 1325043086 206872 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly. < 1325043089 94869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, ah < 1325043127 407501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, I have to say a real keyboard is superior. Just imagine writing haskell code with that thing of yours < 1325043132 525185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would just be terrible < 1325043142 210314 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any sort of code even < 1325043157 644453 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a real keyboard that would fit into 7 inches < 1325043158 811343 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cobol? < 1325043166 243776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, well obviously < 1325043176 269555 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's just need an appropriate dictionary < 1325043182 15729 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Haskell < 1325043192 660879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, I'm just saying that for many tasks a device with a real keyboard, such as a laptop, is superior < 1325043211 654401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tablets are the future < 1325043213 153401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta like a c64 basic dictionary? :-D < 1325043213 499581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing on a laptop atm < 1325043219 639710 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay? I don't think that's a controversial opinion < 1325043224 391409 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not as good as a desktop keyboard. < 1325043230 510074 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooooo I'm knot sure what your point is < 1325043234 288135 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooooo < 1325043237 118879 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1325043239 204331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Okay? I don't think that's a controversial opinion <-- I'm not aiming to be controversial < 1325043244 19058 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-005-233.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325043250 196707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sooooo I'm knot sure what your point is <-- wut? < 1325043250 814865 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It assumes I want so by default now < 1325043255 305109 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, then it doesn't < 1325043261 85741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, what did you actually want? < 1325043269 31730 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1325043271 224371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you type it out slowly < 1325043279 220096 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just pronounce the line < 1325043286 237616 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It remains coherent < 1325043294 991461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, well knot -> not obviously < 1325043326 816066 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do agree they ought to have physical keyboard < 1325043347 10007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, you could fit a keyboard into that thing < 1325043359 474513 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you couldn't < 1325043360 791145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, remember those old thinkpads with keyboards that folded out? < 1325043364 347835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do that < 1325043371 894782 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tearaway < 1325043376 477754 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325043378 600703 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeaaaaah < 1325043386 149924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tearaway keyboard? < 1325043386 882261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1325043391 316281 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1325043392 793086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is a good idea < 1325043399 52678 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying speech recognition again < 1325043402 784736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_ThinkPad_Butterfly_keyboard < 1325043404 98119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, ^ < 1325043408 763749 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be better now that = British < 1325043417 920827 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow this is actually coherent < 1325043422 600188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1325043426 626765 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busy I apologise for everything < 1325043431 81936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the = < 1325043431 715607 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is < 1325043433 395781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it fails < 1325043438 193425 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Busy < 1325043448 162258 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :F I ZZIE < 1325043468 714400 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually plants that outlet by letter < 1325043468 870779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"androidgravisom, [...] I apologise for everything" < 1325043471 321406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325043477 390878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1325043484 117676 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was apologising to FI ZZ ie < 1325043487 412411 :calamari!~calamari@173-116-114-170.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325043487 759082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are sorry for everything you did? < 1325043499 160588 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually plants that outlet by letter <-- what < 1325043500 485730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that < 1325043501 620300 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my comments about speech recognition < 1325043506 179635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325043508 267733 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was apologising for those < 1325043512 828825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325043528 532309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think " Busy I apologise for everything" is quote-worthy though < 1325043531 995129 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was I actually pronounce that out letter by letter < 1325043567 345430 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :She should ship < 1325043594 242825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds dirty < 1325043595 730818 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Book shop shop shop a couple couple of < 1325043596 547036 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325043607 638551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tounge twister or some kind? < 1325043618 619235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tongue* < 1325043637 437960 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it wants me to say duck < 1325043639 379858 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duck < 1325043641 736464 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duck < 1325043645 27562 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duck < 1325043647 362889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck? < 1325043649 893395 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-005-233.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325043651 798929 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325043655 590216 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the duck. < 1325043663 225480 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, that is silly < 1325043669 421282 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't give a flying. < 1325043670 561122 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, try other vulgar language? < 1325043671 348217 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1325043683 226960 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It cut off the"duck" < 1325043695 184720 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, where did that space go? < 1325043714 469411 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids shopping but I don't give < 1325043720 15709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325043721 727157 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1325043735 489188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did "Kids shopping" come from? < 1325043748 126994 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue < 1325043780 338224 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does google provide the speech recognition software? < 1325043801 322806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually seem better than the built in one on OS X from my experience with that one < 1325043811 951812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it just sucks at accents that badly < 1325043816 579127 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's dragon < 1325043828 351408 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a Swype specific thing < 1325043828 812869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it took an arrow to the knee? < 1325043832 245732 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due < 1325043833 942269 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Site < 1325043836 176176 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due < 1325043838 15341 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due < 1325043840 817029 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Die < 1325043854 562900 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Die die die die die < 1325043866 438345 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tasty < 1325043870 599262 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325043871 908579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325043888 420465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :androidgravisom, anyway you said dragon < 1325043892 82781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you expect < 1325043909 592785 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep going in feet < 1325043917 651917 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And keep dragging my feet < 1325043918 476712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are? < 1325043926 797127 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep dragging my feet < 1325043933 497343 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep track on my feet < 1325043939 495908 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1325043944 835972 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think < 1325043960 440199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait is this repeating whatever it think you said and see if ends up consistent? < 1325043967 236043 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep driver Matthew < 1325043971 541996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be fun < 1325043975 588199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what < 1325043992 410027 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I'll try that now < 1325044004 235041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that software failing at speech recognition is so funny? < 1325044023 518309 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm great grandson and I approve this message < 1325044032 269431 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm great grandson and I approve this message < 1325044038 537539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325044040 364313 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree Branson and I approve this message < 1325044051 855136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :working out great so far < 1325044063 386847 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree Bronson and I approve this message < 1325044075 672543 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree Johnson and I approve this message < 1325044076 168686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me what the original was instead of "great grandson" btw. Using typing or something < 1325044085 282181 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree Johnson and I approve this message < 1325044094 21613 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"photoluminescent" < 1325044099 149390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325044104 200425 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"colloinkgravisom" < 1325044108 934055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325044110 348937 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1325044115 476686 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree Johnson and I approve this message < 1325044116 477724 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "photoluminescent" < 1325044123 561950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"photoluminescent" is so much better < 1325044128 619417 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm totally messed it and I approve this message < 1325044137 712126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly did! < 1325044138 640938 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Went to the lesson < 1325044145 998033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it cut it short!? < 1325044147 680470 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtually no less < 1325044147 836521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325044155 7870 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgiveness < 1325044171 796989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you shall not be forgiven for your mangling of the message < 1325044172 490748 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Photos and wanted < 1325044181 937209 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry < 1325044183 498863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325044198 266600 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait it turned "photos and wanted" into "I'm sorry"? < 1325044200 869250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1325044228 188587 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325044331 259710 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah < 1325044343 607534 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going for photoluminescent < 1325044367 874915 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dangling guardian PDT the superior soul < 1325044381 200831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325044382 563482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325044410 661411 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Dangling guardian PDT the superior soul <-- what was that < 1325044425 67236 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. < 1325044430 467001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325044457 961426 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-054-202.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325044754 893140 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325044983 837575 :androidgravisom!~androidgr@95.149.243.71 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325045092 957430 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Can you spot what's wrong with what I'm doing? I'm at a loss. The complaining about constructing infinite types really ticks me off because I though Haskell was all about that sort of thing. It has infinite data structures, so why the problem with infinite types? I suspect it has something to do with that paradox which showed untyped lambda calculus is inconsistent. I'm not sure though. Would be good if someone could clarify." < 1325045094 180850 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this guy is < 1325045097 725141 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunning-kruger personified < 1325045101 741595 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd get along great with kallisti < 1325045164 26722 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwat < 1325045175 6975 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never associate myself with this uneducated trash, hmph. < 1325045196 9071 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i encountered that paradox while snooping around on wiki < 1325045202 153106 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apparently they fixed it < 1325045208 294827 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did they? < 1325045231 456561 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of dunning-kruger < 1325045277 432691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dunning-kruger effect in educational materials < 1325045298 651764 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: it complains about infinite types because infinite types are /impossible/. Anyone with a brain knows this. < 1325045304 524384 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh. < 1325045308 282561 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that works < 1325045310 682197 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ur joking too rite < 1325045313 720262 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all primates have brains < 1325045315 621382 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1325045316 660499 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes) < 1325045359 579217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: deep < 1325045394 404598 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from monqy < 1325045400 684647 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has brane < 1325045409 713663 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess would be that Haskell doesn't support infinite types because a) it needs types to be fully realized by the end of compile-time b) infinite types cause the compilation process to not halt thanks to (a) < 1325045415 321514 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that correct? < 1325045491 206822 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong and wrong < 1325045532 439031 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325045592 730362 :const!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: I found a 1 /dev/zero < 1325045614 250065 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found a 1 /dev/zero < 1325045714 977519 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: this is a hard question to google for. can you clarify? < 1325045813 129331 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i have learnt so far in my time here is that mathematics of computation, cellular automata, turing machines, haskell curry, alonzo church, lisp, haskell, brainfuck .. all form a stratum of topics which you will never find in a volume of sams teach yourself c++ in 21 days < 1325045853 646592 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a shitty C++ reference if it randomly talked about lisp and brainfuck. < 1325045897 969027 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/shitty/best/ < 1325045915 905541 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not really a reference though so much as set of lessons < 1325045925 434311 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway no infinite types are not really problematic. we have lists f.e. < 1325045931 929763 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many programs start typing that we don't want to. < 1325045936 186312 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know what it does to inference < 1325045962 839090 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And so, to dereference a pointer you use the * operator. Also, Alonzo Church was born in 1903." < 1325045976 41942 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: I assume you mean infinite type-level lists?? < 1325045982 32258 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite lists do not have an infinite type in Haskell. < 1325046001 460057 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is there a way to tell you you're being stupid without hurting your feelings < 1325046013 132449 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you just clarify this simple point? < 1325046027 217407 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually understand any of the topics i listed :P < 1325046047 480971 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realize that something about them. some ineffable quality in them forms the basis of esoteric programming < 1325046050 484331 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a] = Maybe (a, [a]) < 1325046064 192053 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: no, more like it forms the basis of what we talk about < 1325046124 682190 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere i learned that lewis carroll wrote a book about how people should learn euclid directly from euclid instead of modern textbooks < 1325046136 822706 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether that is actually what the book is about i won't be sure until i've read it < 1325046165 872315 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should learn lewis carroll talking about euclid directly from lewis caroll instead of internet renditions < 1325046187 62917 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i downloaded the book, just haven't read it yet < 1325046197 589083 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yet is a bit hopeful) < 1325046197 819434 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: hm. < 1325046199 825006 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravison: Yes that is one way. < 1325046242 670519 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: but that won't type in Haskell. < 1325046254 858155 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes. because infinite types are banned. < 1325046258 727520 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy for someone to learn assembly language without ever being aware of turing or functional programming, etc... < 1325046273 178625 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :today we learned kallisti saying "uneducated trash" is the prelude to irony < 1325046291 159236 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: except they're no problem becauses of lists f.e. < 1325046293 932490 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325046334 391390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for someone who only knows BASIC, as perhaps included in a manual in a commodore 64 box, then assembly language might seem elite to him. but for the assembly language programmer then lambda calculus might seem elite to him < 1325046334 548431 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : My guess would be that Haskell doesn't support infinite types because a) it needs types to be fully realized by the end of compile-time b) infinite types cause the compilation process to not halt thanks to (a) < 1325046334 777552 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can define a recursive type by newtype < 1325046338 299949 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your reasons are incorrect < 1325046352 556945 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because lists are infinite types (behind data-type wrapping) and neither (a) nor (b) applies < 1325046369 368035 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: but Haskell doesn't really consider them infinite types does it? < 1325046374 876944 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: lambda calculus is about a billion times easier than any assembly language < 1325046388 341587 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's an abstract entity, i'll leave the psychoanalysis to you < 1325046399 850736 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Haskell just permits a subset of infinite types that can be formed via product and sum types. < 1325046427 604019 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325046430 877316 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're dumb < 1325046439 666392 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1325046451 360462 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's patented educational method is based on a healthy amount of superiority and burning hatred for all inferior to him
< 1325046469 196200 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see it's super effective. < 1325046473 22970 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-36.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION discovers the Kindle is pretty much a perfect manga raw reading device
< 1325046478 247190 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: in entertaining me, yes < 1325046492 58958 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: really? you always seem pretty annoyed < 1325046496 197087 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if I continue being confused. < 1325046505 866530 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's part of the fun < 1325046518 272642 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like... disgust < 1325046518 428507 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gee, no matter how many times I tell him he's stupid or wrong, he continues being stupid and wrong! so frustrating" < 1325046538 464644 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like im sure in ancient times people went to watch i dont know natives rip each other apart < 1325046556 306012 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :revelling in their savagery and idiocy, actually this never happened, probably what actually happened was genocide or something < 1325046561 369152 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the spirit is there < 1325046572 706373 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making a lot of sense, i think i'll knock myself unconscious soon < 1325046609 800705 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so Haskell supports infinite types, but not at the type... level? I mean, I get that lists are an infinite type, but not how to word why Haskell permits it and not other infinite types. < 1325046634 826252 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be having trouble with the what, not why < 1325046707 554950 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you're saying because infinite data structures such as lists are isomorphic to infinite types, Haskell supports infinite types. right? < 1325046730 936786 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/isomorphic/equivalent/ I guess < 1325046737 797250 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try this the third time < 1325046740 737253 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : My guess would be that Haskell doesn't support infinite types because a) it needs types to be fully realized by the end of compile-time b) infinite types cause the compilation process to not halt thanks to (a) < 1325046746 933638 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if either of these were true, then lists could not exist < 1325046751 5596 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore your reasons are wrong < 1325046759 940467 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1325046767 622042 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :infer anything about what i am trying to say beyond this at your own peril < 1325046847 758853 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has to do with type inference as well. < 1325046891 276201 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since [Char] is a concrete type it doesn't have to make the inference that [Char] = Maybe (Char, [Char]) or whatever < 1325046901 793192 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas something like a = b -> a < 1325046917 967572 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not concrete. < 1325046928 682658 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, you passed my threshold of "coherent enough to bother trying to decode" < 1325046928 928515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325046934 81945 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1325046938 225482 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes mine too < 1325047003 333766 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically [Char] is done... there are no more inferences to make. < 1325047030 211254 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti < 1325047030 947424 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop < 1325047039 44589 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also its 5 a m Lauhing Out Loud !!! < 1325047039 487713 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: no. < 1325047055 570558 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will continue being wrong < 1325047056 536212 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :loudly < 1325047070 473189 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: everyone present just gave up on you so i guess if you really want to just continue saying things to no avail so that you embarrass yourself more fully on the permanent record that is the logs then < 1325047071 819962 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun!!! < 1325047094 865364 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs.
< 1325047132 571402 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is a bad place to learn things. < 1325047138 292540 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn? < 1325047140 464056 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325047150 424085 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've learned tons and tons here, it's just not a good place to learn really basic things < 1325047159 391780 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what? what is basic about this? < 1325047164 110553 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1325047167 638640 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1325047176 208912 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really basic in and of itself but the parts you are stumbling on are < 1325047177 542923 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :name things that are basic, I will look them up. problem solved. < 1325047179 399889 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway monqy tell me to go to bed thanks < 1325047184 624737 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to bed < 1325047195 201015 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well you obviously don't understand type inference/checking so start there, try [[hindley milner]] < 1325047202 592512 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ok thnx when < 1325047211 83335 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't specify < 1325047219 103527 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1325047222 259912 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1325047240 984694 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need our qdb to support bold :( < 1325047247 225241 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: please unfilter ctrl+b, ctrl+c, thanxkx < 1325047250 617511 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor Gregor: please unfilter ctrl+b, ctrl+c, thanxkx < 1325047251 102277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325047305 234933 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :,monqym, should i bed in 8 hr < 1325047313 102541 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ould that be a good idea < 1325047354 755563 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :idm idfn oidrnt ernt rent knwo < 1325047357 67681 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probalbklyjh nto < 1325047359 820069 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :praobajklyhl: earlier < 1325047362 252998 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :woduewl be beterjer < 1325047397 870397 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7hr < 1325047402 660342 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0hr??? < 1325047406 380286 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-2 hr < 1325047424 257623 :calamari!~calamari@173-116-114-170.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325047428 133512 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehlp < 1325047430 86892 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I make Astro-Q, I can include a function to use GPS input. (Astrolog lacks GPS input function) < 1325047458 132576 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you should bed in negative hours you are late to bed < 1325047482 622931 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you did bed. good job. < 1325047504 895336 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325047505 998817 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didnmt < 1325047513 1085 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1325047521 150519 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleeeeeurgh bed is just so ahrd theres so many rules and restrictions and prices and values < 1325047531 143754 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and formfilling < 1325047568 404872 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me bed is easeiy i just turn things off then the floor is right there and wow blankeyts how nice < 1325047586 470045 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's make a list of proposed features of Astro-Q, whether or not any of it will be implemented. < 1325047637 202679 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: universe < 1325047638 441225 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spatial < 1325047639 617983 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :temporal hug < 1325047640 498027 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mechanism < 1325047642 121377 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :friend < 1325047646 410569 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thats one feature) < 1325047647 526237 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speech recognition < 1325047650 473456 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325047655 411500 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on-screen keyboard robot mouse < 1325047658 284115 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on-screen keyboard robot cat < 1325047660 738024 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they chase) < 1325047666 692969 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand what "spacial temporal hug mechanism friend" means. < 1325047667 760092 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need voice commands for my universe spatial temporal hug mechanism friend < 1325047670 626781 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1325047674 563734 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for astro-q to find out < 1325047686 673999 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom: okay, so, [a] is a monotype. < 1325047718 300727 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to turn off my computer now by < 1325047719 692813 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting my nose < 1325047721 468523 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the powerb utton < 1325047724 172975 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and smudging it in < 1325047726 341463 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish me luck monqy < 1325047729 881421 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :luck luck < 1325047739 12798 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help i cant fit < 1325047745 52245 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4t5rrttdf < 1325047745 879061 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :power button may be a bad idea < 1325047747 243223 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it < 1325047751 642395 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: okay elliott is leaving, you explain things instead. < 1325047752 436391 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know expertise in this area... < 1325047758 394242 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aklistey: what tHigns < 1325047771 691757 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want "explaiend < 1325047791 748596 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ytygkyjfuyhtfyuuyyufuyfig < 1325047793 662345 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope that helps. < 1325047800 415442 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorrey i cant explaijn that < 1325047806 307429 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a mystery of life < 1325047811 250633 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell allows infinite types but also doesn't allow infinite types? < 1325047814 511828 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325047816 956729 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help. < 1325047819 47266 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325047833 12452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I almost certainly intend to include is all the features of Swiss Ephemeris. So Astro-Q will be a superset of Swiss Ephemeris. < 1325047863 438538 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: help. < 1325047874 181774 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: where you paying attention earlier? < 1325047902 629089 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I updated my D&D recording with the latest session. < 1325047989 935426 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325048134 950834 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you describe the infinite types that Haskell allows compared to the infinite types it doesn't allow. < 1325048148 664259 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean allows and not allows < 1325048173 782961 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have lists, which are an infinite type, but other infinite types are not allowed. < 1325048178 66206 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :liuke what < 1325048184 627481 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = a -> b < 1325048188 739497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can have that < 1325048265 648230 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its: newtype Ohno a = Ohno (Ohno a -> a) < 1325048270 125723 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then your thing would be: Ohno b < 1325048274 439540 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohno < 1325048279 302967 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot have any infinite types, not even lists. But what you can have is types where some or all of its constructors have have reference to themself < 1325048293 920231 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And values do the same thing < 1325048314 222319 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. okay. that's what I already knew, then. < 1325048386 238847 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallist6ey what do you mean by infinite types < 1325048393 285089 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-251-102.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325048428 895690 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I don't know. Basically elliott said lists are infinite types and then I got confused. < 1325048443 37766 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has top comment on a YouTube video
< 1325048446 959187 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels weird
< 1325048447 305592 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats. < 1325048448 417655 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :conmgratualtieosne < 1325048466 138920 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well if you don't wnknow what your'e asking aobut: :?????? < 1325048477 54381 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard for me to help < 1325048506 964433 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo is it a bad video < 1325048530 604712 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA7UqQtUS7g < 1325048550 685942 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-193-36.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325048560 897866 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good top comment < 1325048700 359626 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused as to why "Haskell doesn't allow infinite types" is an incorrect statement. < 1325048764 387315 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at least to elliott infinite types means something that haskell does anllow < 1325048778 6591 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that's what I figured. < 1325048831 462134 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in Haskell, [a] is not considered infinite type.. < 1325048846 854749 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless a is an infinite type. < 1325048952 640350 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically, [a] = (a, [a]) | [] ...but Haskell does not treat as equivalent to this in any way. < 1325048969 477137 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the purposes of type inference. < 1325049057 303422 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algebraically it is still f(x) = x f(x) + 1 and you can factor and expand and whatever < 1325049083 800743 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's fair to say that Haskell can't make recursive type inferences. < 1325049086 428241 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can allow infinite types. < 1325049164 647876 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht < 1325049192 915056 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that confusing? < 1325049197 434925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats this about inferences again < 1325049198 151002 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assume x and f(x) are cardinal numbers. If x is nonzero then f(x) will be infinite, I think. < 1325049288 719590 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: basically, if Haskell infers a type to be infinite within its type system then it doesn't allow that. If you define a recursively infinite data type (which is theoretically an infinite type) with data/newtype then it can allow this. < 1325049312 540848 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If x=1 then f(x) is aleph zero as far as I can tell. The type [()] is like natural numbers but can also be infinite list. Its only property will be its length. < 1325049313 118232 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :????? < 1325049362 396836 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: I feel as though basically anything I'm about to say is going to sound like meaningless gibberish to you. < 1325049367 664357 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325049503 698370 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let intersperse _ [] = []; intersperse _ [x] = x; intersperse s (x:y:xs) = x:s:y:intersperse s xs in intersperse '|' ["a", "b", "c"] < 1325049504 899151 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = [a] < 1325049514 881001 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this is a recursive type inference. it's not allowed. < 1325049575 130348 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data [a] = a : [a] | [] -- syntax errors notwithstanding, this contains a recursively defined product type and that's OK. < 1325049591 336330 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not allowed: type Bad = [Bad]; what does htis have to do with inference < 1325049618 655205 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's the type it's trying to construct via inference. < 1325049619 434407 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: That is because it is a macro < 1325049626 398176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kind of < 1325049668 302287 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it has inferred that a is a recursive type... it can't do those when they're inferred in this way (or a type alias as you just said) < 1325049706 991438 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but does it have anything to do with the inference or does it just happen that inference is the only way to get it to go bad < 1325049722 557663 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the latter. < 1325049729 657713 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1325049737 329104 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the reason recursive data structures are allowed is because /Haskell does not consider them to be infinite types/ < 1325049743 387601 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325049753 408103 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1325049815 224911 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Haskell considers [a] to be... [a]. not Maybe (a, [a]) < 1325049823 346356 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1325049848 808599 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously if you write type [a] = Maybe (a, [a]) < 1325049852 128928 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only has problems if it considers stuff to be infinite types, regardless of if they actually are < 1325049853 661915 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell will complain about an infinite type. < 1325049858 617353 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yes < 1325049863 850433 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325049864 237742 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that is what I just said. < 1325049866 513970 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was being < 1325049867 918704 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke < 1325049869 721134 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325049870 622139 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325049879 114277 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325049911 380356 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably do: newtype Bad = Bad [Bad]; bad1 :: Bad; bad1 = Bad [Bad [], Bad [], Bad [Bad [], Bad []], Bad [bad1], bad1]; O! Does this kind of mathematical structure have a standard name? ("Bad" probably isn't its standard mathematical term) < 1325049991 702397 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: so then what is the best way to describe this different. < 1325049996 403635 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*difference < 1325050015 720302 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between a recursive type inference and a recursive data type. < 1325050025 806663 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes one unacceptable and the other one okay. < 1325050028 298325 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO YOU SAY THIS < 1325050032 363426 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T CONFUSE PEOPLE AAAAAAAH < 1325050035 776395 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to do with stuff < 1325050040 288568 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :official monqy answer < 1325050086 973302 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it has to do with Haskell not treating recursive types defined via data and newtype to be infinite types. < 1325050094 742085 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont < 1325050095 126825 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :say < 1325050095 473517 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1325050096 405209 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aagh < 1325050097 243394 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the type level. < 1325050098 797025 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325050099 616814 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaagh < 1325050127 206605 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know how to explain these things < 1325050127 934554 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im < 1325050129 640989 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad at explain < 1325050159 156373 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because at the type level [a] is not recursively defined. it's just.. [a] < 1325050168 104547 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no infinite loop. < 1325050172 122781 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1325050173 933305 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dfounfd < 1325050175 145323 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thing < 1325050176 455479 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might < 1325050177 954720 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1325050180 646361 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybE < 1325050187 644088 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is IT?? < 1325050200 503831 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????????///////// < 1325050205 411686 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a really dumb name its called an occurs chekc???? < 1325050232 962180 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might not ehlep... < 1325050296 635755 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that helps. < 1325050302 190828 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325050308 31122 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered what "occurs check" meant... < 1325050328 236958 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had not considered that it was a thing < 1325050426 726133 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the mathematical structure newtype X = X [X]; called? Mathematically, what typeclasses can it belong to? I think it is a monoid. Is it a semiring or anything else? < 1325050481 266645 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks to me like an ordered set. < 1325050493 377354 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh < 1325050506 710280 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1325050510 740154 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhh < 1325050512 395870 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhhhh < 1325050551 905825 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it a set it can contain duplicates?? < 1325050562 406687 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ordered multiset. :P < 1325050621 806948 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not seein ght eorder < 1325050634 177306 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :X[ X[ X [], X[], X[]], X [], X[X [], X[], X[]]] < 1325050638 340110 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeeee < 1325050641 524108 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht < 1325050664 834186 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1325050676 25860 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325050691 133756 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an example of newtype X = X [X] < 1325050691 940771 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my questions means does this *specific* mathematical structure have a name. < 1325050714 974497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: by ordered multiset did you mean: list?????? < 1325050726 377140 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, it's also one of those. < 1325050737 586436 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it allows arbitrary nesting. < 1325050750 530322 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a set, and it has an order, like an ordered set, and can has duplicates, like a multiset. < 1325050825 721312 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im < 1325050826 850251 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving up < 1325050858 339241 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand what's confusing about that. < 1325050875 668437 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;ll let future colloingkravisom sort this out, or not bother to, or whatever he wants to do,.., < 1325050900 80804 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*colloinkgravisom < 1325050941 905378 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulatiosn won conrrrecting my words < 1325050949 800916 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION did not get a single A this semester.
< 1325050954 827349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1325051003 423634 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 As and an A- < 1325051005 328431 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1325051005 559048 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: other mistakes are permissible. < 1325051014 308527 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't misspell colloinkgravisom. < 1325051022 397142 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o k < 1325051022 553429 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's (c) kallisti < 1325051035 947256 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i misspell kallisti? i already have, in the past. < 1325051043 159070 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325051051 387650 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti is not (c) kallisti < 1325051061 11871 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :callistey (C) not kallistey < 1325051076 915713 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloinkgravisom however is a work of art that I (er, well, a progfram I wrewote) made < 1325051150 938156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325051592 369038 :Sut-Heb!~chris@c-68-39-116-188.hsd1.nj.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325051681 412449 :Sut-Heb!~chris@c-68-39-116-188.hsd1.nj.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1325052607 524962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Casts Aboleniency: Allows +8 on all saving rolls on sneaking an aboleth into the dinner party" [This seems a very specific kind of spell. And also not applicable to the current situation in the game.] < 1325052644 375716 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Hey, so I don't think [a] = Maybe (a, [a]) because there's no equivalent to (Just _|_) or (a, Just _|_) or .. < 1325052644 827742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325052648 337188 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325052652 747834 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Hey, so I don't think [a] = Maybe (a, [a]) because there's no equivalent to (Just _|_) or (a, Just _|_) or .. < 1325052653 208955 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325052657 733977 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :Hey < 1325052665 31513 :Hey!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325052668 448727 :Hey!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1325052669 24555 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1325052669 485232 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott isn't called elliott anymore < 1325052680 348400 :Hey!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :kallisti < 1325052696 612264 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you go colloinkgravisom you dont go back.......... < 1325052720 948287 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell colloinkgravisom Hey, so I don't think [a] = Maybe (a, [a]) because there's no equivalent to (Just _|_) or (a, Just _|_) or .. < 1325052721 293560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325052744 926931 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: what < 1325052765 397384 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype T = T A < 1325052777 2462 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T is not isomorphic to A because there is no equivalent to T _|_ < 1325052804 567944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325052808 254889 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1325052813 425295 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1325052819 711496 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325052827 894139 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1325052830 279703 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly don't know how to make that more clear. < 1325052838 185445 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds < 1325052839 262040 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused < 1325052849 745235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But newtype makes them automatically unwraps when compiled? < 1325052869 305881 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably said something bad a while ago though oops....i hope it wasnt really really bad < 1325052876 843097 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would be < 1325052877 187912 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad < 1325052894 960343 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmmm... < 1325052904 100966 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you put data instead of newtype < 1325052907 470565 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325052927 491369 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325052944 32951 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what is the equivalent of T _|_ for type A < 1325052951 265614 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in generally you can ignore _|_ if you want to. < 1325052952 234524 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything else maps to an equivalent value < 1325052965 324930 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand your question < 1325052987 379685 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325053052 24127 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ = _|_; T a = a; T _|_ = ??? < 1325053060 575976 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325053073 755968 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't isomorphic < 1325053074 626743 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :becase < 1325053075 870192 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of that. < 1325053085 81180 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of what < 1325053089 295447 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont understand what you mean with that < 1325053140 335873 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean there's no bijective map between T and A. < 1325053148 200959 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of... < 1325053156 268403 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of what < 1325053158 10539 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lack of a mapping for T _|_ to something in A. < 1325053214 650976 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so T _|_ is a value? < 1325053217 884588 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325053223 774716 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype T = T A < 1325053230 84107 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325053231 841694 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maps to _|_ < 1325053232 418726 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, just < 1325053238 10283 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no _|_ maps to _|_ < 1325053239 371676 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ inhabits every type < 1325053242 453731 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325053251 803210 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1325053252 188864 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if _|_ mapped to T _|_ < 1325053256 166413 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what maps to _|_? < 1325053287 596797 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is the difference between newtype and data, or am I wrong? < 1325053296 449676 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes it does unwrap in compilation. < 1325053304 988307 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so data T = T A < 1325053309 727260 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;ll fall back to a nitpick: dont conflate bijections and isomorphism B) < 1325053337 806144 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not. I'm saying it usually helps to have a bijective map if there's an isomorphism < 1325053340 794958 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's like... the thing. < 1325053342 181508 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you need. < 1325053355 476489 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thing that you need < 1325053362 850710 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes one of them < 1325053365 624169 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a necessary thing. < 1325053447 228736 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I had forgotten about the C _|_ = _|_ thing. thanks. < 1325053498 898422 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whats this about _|_ mapping to _|_ < 1325053513 457681 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a thing < 1325053521 29966 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess so < 1325053522 859745 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325053523 90017 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if T and A are sets of their values. < 1325053536 694686 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to make a bijective map, the easiest starting point would be to say _|_ maps to _|_ < 1325053604 591825 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can usually just ignore _|_ for figuring out their mathematical properties. Otherwise everything would be a monad and comonad and everything else. < 1325053625 366086 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :return _ = _|_ --yay! < 1325053639 56710 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignoring _|_ makes me feel good inside < 1325053644 296021 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is scarey < 1325053645 273618 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead you can say that they mean, sometimes something is mathematically undefined < 1325053657 786645 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why it is undefined < 1325053694 215604 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, factorial of negative integers is undefined. < 1325053719 229859 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh right with that bijective map thing i was talking about: i rem,embered the point iwas trying to make with the nitpicL: but forgot to say: sometimes you can make a bijective map??? < 1325053732 654793 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can. < 1325053734 135219 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is possible. < 1325053736 561566 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(???) < 1325053752 498163 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,,,, < 1325053839 131465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :say A is natural nubmers and bottom. _|_ -> _|_; T _|_ -> 0; T 0 -> 1; ... that is assuming this whole mapping bottoms thing isnt fundamentally fdlawed < 1325053942 219064 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't map bottoms! It is not mathematically correct to do so. < 1325053947 271924 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325053964 59034 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes me feel better < 1325053987 715781 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this whole mapping bottoms thing feels really dumb < 1325053994 870466 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bad < 1325053998 559987 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and icky < 1325054042 852017 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325054044 237827 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325054049 604501 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325054069 866355 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to describe but < 1325054072 446574 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels wrong??? < 1325054072 603636 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go work on my horrible evil magic conversion code, but independently of any connection with my Cap stuff < 1325054082 549673 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1325054085 301964 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. for the hell of it) < 1325054113 247410 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: do you have a definition of what you maen by isomorphism/isomorphic w/r/t haskell types? < 1325054310 863750 :kallisti!~eris@h162.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325054314 403614 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop < 1325054488 161952 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325054771 122019 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325055188 334484 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1325055294 410815 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone in here use package.el and the marmalade repo? < 1325056241 185085 :kallisti!~eris@24.75.171.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325056241 341301 :kallisti!~eris@24.75.171.15 QUIT :Changing host < 1325056241 341470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1325056384 806122 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-10.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325056385 152133 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-10.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325056385 308438 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325056402 137870 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325056515 935690 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I make electronic device, including for selling, I have to do it as follows: < 1325056522 623594 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* The customer has complete freedom to use it and do what they want with it, including modification, even though that would void the warranty. < 1325056527 727247 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Complete specification must be freely available. < 1325056532 125257 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* In most cases, no separate computer is required for its use. But it can be used, regardless of architecture or operating system, if you want to, including for user reprogramming. < 1325056536 348561 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* The hardware shall be designed to prevent copy protection and DRM from being implemented on it, and all specification of such is freely available and freely implementable. < 1325056540 346412 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* No HDMI/HDCP. < 1325056544 952888 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Book can be available in paper, and in computer DVI file and even the source file in case you want to reformat it. < 1325056552 403707 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* It can be protected by copyleft and/or trademarks in order to avoid some bad things < 1325056558 968303 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Hackers and hobbyists can possibly use these device for many interesting things. < 1325056563 528629 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Don't overcomplicate things please. < 1325056567 444458 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* For softawre, include source codes and valid free-software/open-source, such as GNU GPL v3, or another license if it is based on another software that uses that other license that is still valid free-software/open-source. < 1325056572 748781 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* All business shall be accessible by postal mail, although other methods of communication are still possible. < 1325056656 799992 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they good so far? < 1325056727 966634 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds overly complicated < 1325056739 397111 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just promise not to sue anyone < 1325056745 660012 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :problems all solved < 1325056762 453068 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol quintopia < 1325056836 46505 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if promises could all be kept then there would be very few troubles in the world < 1325056875 456373 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325056890 762102 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :keeping such a promise engenders good will with customers < 1325056896 718685 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard my former post < 1325056915 469556 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my former post was not logically sound < 1325057005 258279 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea "Hypernet" for extra-free decentralized universal anonymous encrypted multi-mode network. < 1325057070 731383 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :free as in beer too? < 1325057107 30458 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand quite well (but not perfectly) how problems begin when any given human individual responds to his(or her) wants and needs < 1325057119 576928 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Free as in beer too. And free as in speech too. < 1325057137 657861 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most nasty wants and needs are those which involve positioning in a hierarchy < 1325057231 460471 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as, strongest kid in school, top of the chicken pecking order, boss of the company, < 1325057245 854800 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :upper class < 1325057264 950007 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dominant partner in a relationship < 1325057279 296448 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only purpose authorities would have in Hypernet would be specification of free standards, and would have absolutely no other purpose. < 1325057283 421255 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :high tier level of dominance in a relationship tree < 1325057458 140977 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to acquire these hierarchical positions one acquires: money, power, fame, underlings, strength, allies < 1325057484 915499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also having control of a resource that others need goes a long way < 1325057521 479707 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should attempt to understand incoherent instances < 1325057531 583953 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully this last instance doesn't bring the code into that realm though < 1325057538 851813 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not smart enough to guess < 1325057544 713859 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ability to exploit the vulnerabilities in others (as seen with mao tse tung) < 1325057713 350022 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why are you doing typeclass hasck,,,,why,,,, < 1325057725 965741 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, for fun! < 1325057731 277787 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cries < 1325057743 441522 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, what? < 1325057753 8299 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with fooling with stuff for fun? < 1325057762 731375 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This should be the last instance I need to write for this < 1325057765 636078 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'll post it < 1325057779 64692 :calamari!~calamari@173-116-114-170.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325057784 174926 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE MultiParamTypeClasses, FunctionalDependencies, FlexibleInstances, UndecidableInstances, OverlappingInstances #-} < 1325057830 911418 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1325057937 271089 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My code compiles, but I think it's wrong < 1325057962 878878 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :control can eventually become not a means but an end. a sense of control gained by making someone do those things which are most distant from their own will, to act most distantly against their own self interest < 1325057996 246633 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^distant from their own will and close to the controllers will, distant from their own self interest and close to the controller's self interest < 1325057999 410522 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed, compiles < 1325058010 790001 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No incoherent instances < 1325058016 219319 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I need to find a way to test it :/ < 1325058022 502105 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a nice isomorphism between types < 1325058031 829066 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, close enough that I can test on simple stuff < 1325058041 946426 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it's otherwise all the same, it is important for the controller to find means to induce fear and agony in those he is controlling < 1325058042 638945 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Char and Int? < 1325058082 231716 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it's important for north koreans to know that their leader can control the weather (which i am reminded NKs ally china can infact do) < 1325058083 440827 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/55792 < 1325058090 683684 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have only compiled it, I have not tested it < 1325058111 173793 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are to be kept ignorant and having a superstitious understanding < 1325058126 186172 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kaboom < 1325058159 715640 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. the controller must be situated in such a way that all hell will break lose if he is removed < 1325058194 94268 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/55793 < 1325058201 573378 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, it was in Saddam's interest to make himself a keystone which if removed would ensue a crumbling of the arch < 1325058241 637900 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-251-102.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I suspect in NK control really *is* a means. The targetted end: an easy fucking life for Kim Jong-Il. < 1325058280 269249 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325058302 780214 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is of course the same in the software world, and in the lawyer world < 1325058416 206061 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a side note it is interesting how many plastic toys are sold by cartoons, where the cartoons are exercizes in advertising toys < 1325058459 634787 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, how as they age the animators of those cartoons probably think about the kind of cartoons which could be made < 1325058483 869199 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must ask themselves "are we dumbing down these stories on purpose?" < 1325058846 838773 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325059246 928368 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-10.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325059247 160132 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-10.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325059247 315821 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325059330 851812 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325059696 555237 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325060042 234986 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325061599 180379 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats all speculation, sometimes things just turn around < 1325062328 956790 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325062332 230221 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325062443 826271 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try last night's Haiku again < 1325062449 572307 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Haiku I found < 1325062457 254547 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A problem: it lacks support < 1325062461 625638 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my WiFi card < 1325062535 477869 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you miss the point of haiku < 1325062561 958126 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, it needs to be about the passing of the seasons or something < 1325062627 823798 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must include a season reference < 1325062635 810572 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your morae are wrong < 1325062882 792231 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is confusing < 1325062889 929950 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what is being talked about < 1325062896 888574 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw you guys, i'm going home < 1325062913 697567 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, the Haiku operating system lacks support for my WiFi card < 1325062918 791999 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a problem < 1325062924 45409 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (-> (^_^) (-> < 1325062939 674749 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not understand this emoticon < 1325062956 454468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad ascii art to indicate pointing home with both hands < 1325062975 747711 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1325063018 221848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs46/f/2009/204/c/2/Screw_you_guys_I__m_going_home_by_h4X0ry0uL34.jpg < 1325063029 600572 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: china can control the weather? < 1325063043 597951 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log control the weather < 1325063060 964146 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:41:20 < itidus21> like it's important for north koreans to know that their leader can control the weather (which i am reminded NKs ally china can infact do) < 1325063077 960670 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. i remember saying that but < 1325063080 875269 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-23.txt:00:11:16: itidus21: well, the Chinese government can control the weather < 1325063087 559707 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha.. < 1325063098 70905 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325063103 511458 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I smell sarcasm < 1325063143 308966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log cloud seeding < 1325063154 262364 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-28.txt:09:05:43: `log cloud seeding < 1325063161 727734 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wp < 1325063179 307133 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log control the weather < 1325063184 338308 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops wrong command < 1325063186 834 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-28.txt:09:03:49: itidus21: china can control the weather? < 1325063189 311212 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1325063195 727769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs control the weather < 1325063202 949204 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4416 < 1325063228 932180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember two tricks of hiding the log query: [1] You can put a letter in square brackets [2] You can send the query by private < 1325063229 615006 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy < 1325063253 222332 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ 2008 reference < 1325063268 581123 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is the meat of this channel, pikhq is the salad, and zzo38 is the desert < 1325063469 872402 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have been pondering the ways brainfuck can be applied < 1325063512 742558 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be more applied with PSOX! Apply today! < 1325063525 687945 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's wiki page explains, it acts on an array of cells < 1325063605 315850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it needs complete control over that array eh < 1325063666 414815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325063836 814126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you were to take an ascii string such as "This is a test.\0" and try to use it as a 16 cell brainfuck array, you couldn't really get very far with it < 1325063870 459806 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or could you... < 1325063894 228509 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is where my failure to cognize the distinction between the brainfuck program and the cell array starts to hurt < 1325064311 719155 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like it seems to me you would run into trouble that every time you tried to store working numbers, and that doing a string length program would be quite troubling < 1325064384 156968 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if the string was just used as input, then the program could count the number of input numbers before zero was reached < 1325064572 681426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it's actually a little tricky unless you have a 0 before the first T as well, to mark the boundary on both sides (bf tapes often errror out if you go off the left edge) < 1325064647 461906 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you have more useable tape to the right, of course < 1325064656 602057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-r < 1325064752 213693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you don't, you will have problems about where to place your counter in such a way as to be able to find the ends of the strings as well < 1325064770 182966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the number of times i confuse the difference between the program and the cell tape never fails to amaze me < 1325064787 938874 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that is the first degree of brainfuckery < 1325064805 698961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well there _have_ been esolangs which made them equal, i think < 1325064884 101452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know any "normal" programming languages? the cell tape is just the data for the brainfuck program which is the code < 1325064947 909411 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and normally when programming you try to distinguish code and data most of the time. except when you're doing tricks based on _not_ doing so. < 1325064951 191544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it seems that for the kind of thing i was talking about, a useful extension of brainfuck would be input/output iterators for non-streaming I/O < 1325065028 933264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or is oo kind of a subversion of that already. < 1325065075 472883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: prepare for Phantom_Hoover's brick of wrath < 1325065119 926651 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what you mean by oo. do you mean object orientation? < 1325065124 790594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325065135 881105 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1325065183 489944 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i couldn't say if it is or isn't < 1325065215 722933 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In writing the annotations for music, I have invented some of my own notations, such as for cadences. Perfect cadence is P, imperfect is P with slash through it, plagal is PL, deceptive is D, closed is a circle around it, semiclosed is half circle, and open has no enclosure. (I is the first letter of "imperfect" but the notation I means the chord on the tonic instead.) < 1325065252 953472 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many of you have ever used your own notations when writing music, or thought about such thing? < 1325065313 519841 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because handwritten uppercase/lowercase is sometimes confused, I don't use uppercase/lowercase roman numerals. I write them all in uppercase. I use + for major, - for minor, x for augmented, and o for diminished; but rarely use them when writing music in major keys since they are implied by the scale. < 1325065323 310544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes a chord's function is different from its notes; I use double underlines to indicate this when necessary. < 1325065464 89613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott is the meat of this channel, pikhq is the salad, and zzo38 is the desert <-- i'm the too fat bearnaise sauce < 1325065545 479410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor writes some music, isn't it? < 1325065557 307995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear so < 1325065591 423790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has Gregor ever thought about these kind of things like what I have mentioned here? < 1325065638 186711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1325065674 748930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [G]regor>.*notation < 1325065681 294535 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-03-05.txt:20:00:11: AnMaster: The English word has negative connotation. < 1325065714 998293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [G]regor>.*music.*notation < 1325065721 122123 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-01-19.txt:02:58:25: (Lilypond, if you don't know, is TeX for musical notation) < 1325065788 252524 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next time, ask Gregor. < 1325065909 938885 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: YES CARRIER < 1325066040 115972 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs lilypond < 1325066047 462535 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20141 < 1325066544 373147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Yes, it is true; I don't really like PHP either. < 1325066547 834471 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :784) Yes, it is true; I don't really like PHP either. < 1325067877 31211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325068299 471558 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-248.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325068305 332215 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-251-102.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325069356 852911 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325069357 47185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325069914 306708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : revelling in their savagery and idiocy, actually this never happened, probably what actually happened was genocide or something <-- erm, roman circus. case closed. < 1325070053 683158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : sorry, you passed my threshold of "coherent enough to bother trying to decode" <-- never go into teaching, will you? not that i expect you to. < 1325070124 214415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you are refusing to mention the one piece of information kallisti misses, while he is clearly close to grasping at it, and simultaneously you are deriding him. < 1325070212 471267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly you are not arguing in order to help, but in order to fuel your ego by exaggerating other's faults. heck you basically admitted it above. < 1325070257 149802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not only do you exaggerate other's faults, but you aim your rhetoric in such a way as to trap them further. < 1325070273 558284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite annoying to watch. < 1325070400 69347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*others' < 1325070417 830686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, oerjan, you suck at grammar so much, I may even leave because I can't be bothered? < 1325070559 669745 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of an interesting way to number combinatory logic things < 1325070613 278313 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably been done before < 1325070861 771822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1325070974 192218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325070979 281414 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325070983 1002 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net NICK :Ngevd < 1325070985 43013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what's up? < 1325070988 153363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's the Haskell going < 1325070991 583492 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright < 1325071000 276165 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now sort of get what an applicative functor is < 1325071039 502397 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I AM ABOUT TO DEACTIVATE MY LARGER FACEBOOK ACCOUNT < 1325071117 532411 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325071145 480560 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325071233 652164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: nice < 1325071236 558776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: hello < 1325071243 516129 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, hello < 1325071245 209255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Labbekak < 1325071248 599614 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325071253 235663 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it had outlived its purpose. < 1325071262 212629 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of spam on the wiki 0.o < 1325071270 833919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: unfortunately... < 1325071276 324950 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a wiki with an awful captcha system < 1325071304 404775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..surely we could make a bot that automatically deletes some spam. < 1325071327 124318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all of the ridiculous talent we have. < 1325071352 797167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: also, that's cool. Applicative is a very useful thing. < 1325071387 348038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you understand the f <$> x <*> y <*> ... idiom? < 1325071417 308258 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers that he still has Ngevd on ignore.
< 1325071424 951114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat why. < 1325071431 11389 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKING MATT SMITH < 1325071431 942811 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My opinions on Doctor Who < 1325071471 612321 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sort of < 1325071530 742066 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I maintain my opinion that Matt Smith is a better actor for the Doctor than David Tennant < 1325071564 431752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Essentially, Applicative abstracts the notion of function application onto a parametric type. < 1325071581 436600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have a function wrapped into a parametric type, Applicative allows you apply that function within that wrapping. < 1325071598 660800 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I share my intuition of the f <$> x <*> y idiom? < 1325071602 981709 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325071624 696466 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It allows you to pass someapplicative x arguments as though they were x < 1325071653 325318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, Functor allows you to lift a function into a parametric type. < 1325071667 87999 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If x is an IO Int, and y is an IO Char, and f is :: Int -> Char -> String, then f <$> x <*> y will probably do what you want < 1325071692 427727 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-054-202.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1325071700 563433 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be an IO String that does the action of x and the action of y then passes those to f and the program to do that is the IO String < 1325071705 437586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's one way to look at it. It can be used in other situations though. < 1325071726 895088 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that if f returns an IO whatever, than the new thing will be IO (IO whatever). < 1325071729 349193 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This bit me once. < 1325071749 773450 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes <*> retains the wrapping around its return value. < 1325071762 317046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, so you'd need to do the <- thingy twice? < 1325071770 991760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a function that returns IO whatever, then you most likely want to use >>= instead. < 1325071781 633625 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, I could have, but join is a function that essentially does that. < 1325071784 523091 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join < 1325071785 531971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a < 1325071791 398878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also >>= allows you to avoid that situation entirely. < 1325071792 314204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : *others' <-- damn i had a bad feeling about that word but somehow couldn't quite recall why it was wrong. < 1325071795 730512 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what kallisti said is probably more idiomatic. < 1325071820 487371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes they're equivalent. < 1325071827 178708 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :join m_m_a = do {m_a <- m_m_a; m_a } < 1325071853 736252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3,4] >>= id < 1325071854 382742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [b]) < 1325071854 538510 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_11234' at I maintain my opinion that Matt Smith is a better actor for the Doctor than David Tennant < 1325071872 784516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [[1,2],[3,4]] >>= id < 1325071873 428270 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4] < 1325071876 88716 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325071880 213805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because you are exceptionally stupid and/or gullible. < 1325071885 843317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join [[1,2],[3,4]] < 1325071886 488501 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4] < 1325071887 962295 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn This battery so much < 1325071893 131550 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note I did not mention the episodes < 1325071894 994740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :join m = m >>= id < 1325071910 465381 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smith is unbearable in and of himself. < 1325071980 225612 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325071992 65623 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why I struggle making friends. < 1325071993 33373 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN THIS BATTERY < 1325072035 920909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: is there anything that I said that confuses you? < 1325072041 277430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, why would anyone want to be friends with someone who likes Matt Smith?? < 1325072044 856597 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, Not really < 1325072052 816804 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Matt Smith would, I assume < 1325072060 555298 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (Just (Just 'a')) < 1325072061 200821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a much better question than "does any of this confuse you" because someone is more likely to say "yes" even though they don't mean it) < 1325072061 523658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 'a' < 1325072063 266867 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, he knows how awful he is too. < 1325072066 472009 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (Just Nothing) < 1325072067 511255 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1325072068 698220 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, but I think I'm still a bit behind < 1325072071 639717 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (Nothing) < 1325072072 446853 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1325072091 138517 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325072110 425857 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2+2 < 1325072111 71672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1325072111 879018 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is because you are exceptionally stupid and/or gullible. <-- * oerjan briefly ponders repeating the whole rant above to Phantom_Hoover. wait, you are all like this. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1325072114 804 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1325072140 940209 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you know that (+) adds two numbers, right? < 1325072141 585626 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, pfft. < 1325072145 852314 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+) 2 2 < 1325072146 988157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1325072150 942709 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Watch: < 1325072152 718729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2 < 1325072153 847427 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1325072162 656523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/repeating/redirecting/ < 1325072164 866862 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+) <$> Just 2 <*> Just 3 < 1325072165 835416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 5 < 1325072171 600172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I did not know that. I must have got it confused with ++ < 1325072173 53069 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, does that make sense? < 1325072175 857282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no, not really. < 1325072185 91665 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, yes < 1325072186 221706 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's justified in this case because Matt Smith. < 1325072188 680946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: lol < 1325072192 74000 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do { Nothing } < 1325072192 717769 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1325072207 851107 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do { return () } < 1325072208 804131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m ())) < 1325072208 960356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M466201207... < 1325072209 126004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: (am I the only one that detected sarcasm?) < 1325072222 899713 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (sarcasm was there) < 1325072224 568553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(please say no) < 1325072229 499107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sits down on his lawn with his cane and recalls something the youngsters call "dissing"
< 1325072255 761456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: okay so, I'll just explain the f <$> x <*> y idiom briefly < 1325072261 658648 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE YOU A CLOSET MATT SMITH SUPPORTER < 1325072261 981489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: are you aware of <$>? < 1325072286 159574 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's an expression of the supremacy of the almighty dollar. < 1325072291 843641 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greater than all around it. < 1325072294 411984 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it takes a function and a value inside a functor and does the function on the value inside the functor? < 1325072325 875054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes it's fmap. that's basically what I was asking. < 1325072326 519640 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It .. kind of, but the result is wrapped in the functor < 1325072329 861445 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> random (mkStdGen 949494) :: (Int, StdGen) < 1325072330 367500 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (261237333865217244,75809027 2103410263) < 1325072337 977337 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t succ < 1325072338 949445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> a < 1325072343 715614 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ 1 < 1325072344 718569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1325072346 340021 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap < 1325072347 307205 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1325072348 920086 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t <$> < 1325072349 911996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `<$>' < 1325072351 81486 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> succ <$> (Just 1) < 1325072352 210934 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 2 < 1325072352 372145 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (.) succ 0 < 1325072354 137607 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1325072357 687535 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe is a functor < 1325072373 192554 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew maybe is a functor < 1325072386 797622 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it is fmap. < 1325072400 131165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I believe that's what he meant by "inside the functor" < 1325072405 95655 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ok < 1325072406 78407 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b for some reason. < 1325072406 967175 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+1) <$> [1..5] < 1325072408 15242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,4,5,6] < 1325072414 865347 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that's <*> < 1325072417 878313 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*>) < 1325072418 739242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1325072421 848252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1325072426 84524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: okay so for example here's how you do a cartesian product. < 1325072430 2773 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-023-067.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325072433 915749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1325072442 197195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (,) <$> [1..3] <*> [1..3] < 1325072442 681464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(1,1),(1,2),(1,3),(2,1),(2,2),(2,3),(3,1),(3,2),(3,3)] < 1325072462 263565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: first of all you apply (,) <$> [1..3] < 1325072475 451847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (,) <$> [1..3] < 1325072476 137139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Enum a) => [b -> (a, b)] < 1325072491 61094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this applies (,) to every value in the list [1..3] < 1325072503 721484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and produces a list of curried functions. yes? < 1325072521 674863 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (,) <$> [1..3] < 1325072522 481772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Enum a) => [b -> (a, b)] < 1325072555 464978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now we have a function typed wrapped within a parametric type, namely the list type. < 1325072562 49118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/typed/type/ < 1325072563 619977 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now I'm thinking I can actually find a use for Just Right < 1325072619 408731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the situation where applicative is useful. Applicative takes a function type wrapped within a parametric type, and extends the notion of function application "within" this wrapped type. < 1325072622 863889 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sorry, I had to brb < 1325072623 670392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no use if there's Nothing Left < 1325072644 843461 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am now rb < 1325072657 460764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. :) < 1325072661 816408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :catch up! < 1325072681 1391 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still keep forgetting that , is a function < 1325072699 898085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes. it's kind of a special case. < 1325072718 523819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :, is not /actually/ an infix function. < 1325072732 192113 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, (,) <$> [1..3] is a list of functions < 1325072735 926459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325072771 198707 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you *can* just look at the type signatures. < 1325072778 334782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since list is an instance of Applicative, lists extend the notion of function application. So that if you have a list of functions, you can apply that list of functions to another list of values. < 1325072781 638765 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And <*> applies each function on the left to each value on the right IN THIS EXAMPLE < 1325072782 486219 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1325072789 504697 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f :: a -> b -> c -> d < 1325072802 436088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes, this is what happens in the case of list. < 1325072818 483688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f <$> x (x :: f a) :: f (b -> c -> d). < 1325072846 121349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That <*> y (y :: f b) :: f (c -> d). < 1325072848 378541 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so on. < 1325072879 958994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: but if you look at the type you can infer what happens in the general case. < 1325072883 869436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*>) < 1325072884 542863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1325072905 941051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case of lists this is: [a -> b] -> [a] -> [b] < 1325072922 658902 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This has actually helped a lot < 1325072947 901165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe is also an applicative so: Maybe (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> Maybe b < 1325072967 52515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a function wrapped with Just, you can apply other Maybe values to that function and receive a Maybe result. < 1325072969 996210 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($) < 1325072970 480038 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1325072979 851291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically function application, within a parametric type. < 1325073131 51263 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last [1, 2, 3] < 1325073131 773495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1325073138 781306 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1325073148 937929 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, are you new to Haskell? < 1325073164 677481 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last [1..] < 1325073165 321657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: hopefully that makes everything make a little more sense. < 1325073166 774303 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, yes :p < 1325073168 778015 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1325073191 149150 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does whispering work? < 1325073191 794364 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, Haskell is almost the default non-esolang on this channel < 1325073201 591263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: what client are you using? < 1325073208 937546 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :webchat.freenode < 1325073210 91992 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwebirc < 1325073216 719191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: in most clients you use the /msg command. < 1325073225 619354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: /msg < 1325073231 922300 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg person message < 1325073232 407360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: and that usually opens another window < 1325073256 659663 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oke thanks ;) < 1325073277 580264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: WoW? < 1325073279 545405 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1325073289 455679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or basically any blizzard game. < 1325073292 738148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with battle.net < 1325073303 59230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whispering" is the term used for private messages < 1325073305 228785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:12:45: newtype T = T A < 1325073305 389566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:12:57: T is not isomorphic to A because there is no equivalent to T _|_ < 1325073322 917156 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O I already know what oerjan's going to say < 1325073325 51747 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i played some WoW yes < 1325073326 182251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :T _|_ = _|_ for newtypes, this is a main difference from data < 1325073333 241399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes I realized that further. < 1325073333 402898 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :long time ago < 1325073341 435221 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so I changed it to data. because it still applies there. < 1325073431 200752 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last [1, 2, 3] * [1, 2, 3] < 1325073436 93952 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: no < 1325073443 38008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :type error. < 1325073450 70224 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325073454 389050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 * [1,2,3] = ????? < 1325073464 542081 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL knows :p < 1325073472 46326 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1325073475 432551 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (* last [1,2,3]) [1,2,3] < 1325073476 239057 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325073476 562394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,6,9] < 1325073485 506779 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325073485 668273 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pff < 1325073487 415794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even put this laptop in my lap anymore :( < 1325073496 174125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doesn't like people cheating < 1325073501 844567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: haskell has the restriction that multiplication requires the same type for both operands. < 1325073504 782932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (*) < 1325073505 314130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a -> a < 1325073536 819822 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last ((*) <$> [1,2,3] <*> [1,2,3]) < 1325073537 827235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 < 1325073546 641426 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (*) <$> [1,2,3] <*> [1,2,3] < 1325073547 770801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,2,4,6,3,6,9] < 1325073555 830872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A perfect demonstration of applicatives < 1325073562 335844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect? < 1325073567 853586 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, always the oppurtunist < 1325073587 899794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cartesian product was way better, sheesh. :P < 1325073599 75814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should leave the teaching to me. :P < 1325073601 333329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahahaha < 1325073602 14805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1325073640 270061 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (*) <$> [x,y,z] <*> [x,y,z] < 1325073641 277978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x * x,x * y,x * z,y * x,y * y,y * z,z * x,z * y,z * z] < 1325073649 823513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's good. < 1325073654 522357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325073655 711166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1325073664 787656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (*) <$> [a,b,c] <*> [x,y,z] < 1325073665 594779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [a * x,a * y,a * z,b * x,b * y,b * z,c * x,c * y,c * z] < 1325073666 78662 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spacing is bad < 1325073697 91795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Just (*) <$> Just a <*> Just b < 1325073697 938296 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a1 -> a -> b' < 1325073698 94434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `... < 1325073702 212576 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, wasn't sure that a was the appropriate weird thing < 1325073706 745586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hh < 1325073710 147832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*huh < 1325073717 397637 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map ($ 3) [(*1), (*2), (*3)] < 1325073718 94758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [3,6,9] < 1325073720 304593 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Just (*) <*> Just a <*> Just b < 1325073721 272748 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just (a * b) < 1325073727 601215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1325073732 61565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (*) <$> Just a <*> Just b : < 1325073732 867642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1325073735 452317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (*) <$> Just a <*> Just b < 1325073736 96866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just (a * b) < 1325073769 805110 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t pure < 1325073770 818672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => a -> f a < 1325073789 892985 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure f <*> x <*> y is the same as f <$> x <*> y < 1325073812 749201 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure takes something and brings it into a functor < 1325073818 56415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*applicative < 1325073824 590049 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Applicative < 1325073825 958995 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Maybe, it's ... kallisti's correct. < 1325073851 422169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hahahaha silly humans and there significance of capitalization. < 1325073855 627062 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Maybe, it's Just. For lists, it's putting it in a singleton, like \a -> [a] < 1325073874 470432 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as return for Monad, in... most cases. < 1325073883 379760 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most cases? < 1325073890 192270 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, idiots exist. < 1325073890 999054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most cases that appear in Haskell programs, yes. < 1325073898 863850 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiots? whats that < 1325073914 145422 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who has a pure and a return defined but they do different things? < 1325073919 246254 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: dunno. they certainly don't exist on this channel. < 1325073921 545410 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cries < 1325073924 26745 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C6E8.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325073935 395942 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well the case I was thinking of is an Applicative that's not a Monad. < 1325073963 283465 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough, I guess that's acceptable. < 1325073966 991494 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if return is defined... < 1325073975 161221 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit funky with the way you worded it yeah but yeah < 1325074022 992840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apologies. I imagine being slightly drunk is not the best time to be EXCELLENT MENTOR 2000. < 1325074037 66213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :PERFECT IN ALL WAYS AND STATEMENTS. < 1325074103 799199 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000 is a lot of mentor < 1325074112 492821 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should settle for perfect mentor 1999 < 1325074119 83114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too retro. < 1325074124 522153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000 is FURUTISTSIC < 1325074208 30964 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last [1..5] < 1325074210 715623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : idiots? whats that < 1325074219 670101 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last[1..5] < 1325074220 154921 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1325074228 974574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: but yeah <$> and <*> make it easy to basically ignore the parametric type wrapping. < 1325074242 331947 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh?? < 1325074244 149085 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who don't understand that monads etc. actually have laws you need to satisfy, not just type signatures. < 1325074250 821154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ??? < 1325074258 462503 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last[1..(last[1..5])] < 1325074258 623712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: So, for exampke: lines <$> readFile "foo.txt" < 1325074266 811684 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last[1..(last[1..5])] < 1325074267 536989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1325074277 610634 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t enumFromTo < 1325074278 740536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> a -> [a] < 1325074279 708664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: reads a file, splits it into lines, and returns that as the result of an IO action. < 1325074292 201348 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, [a..b] notion is syntactic sugar for a function < 1325074292 563431 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but you're not ignoring anything if you put a <$> in there..... < 1325074296 208102 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, That would have type IO [String], right? < 1325074304 504683 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1..5] == enumFromTo 1 5 < 1325074308 450486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: well, yes... the <$> is what makes the ignoring possible. < 1325074310 140871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes. < 1325074312 238397 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325074314 891835 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1..] == enumFrom 1 < 1325074319 803388 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> enumFromTo 1 5 < 1325074320 610099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5] < 1325074323 193546 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325074324 322504 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: it's.. well, ignoring is not the best way to describe it. < 1325074325 960966 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ignoring by not ignoring < 1325074326 444941 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> enumTo 5 < 1325074327 453852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `enumTo' < 1325074341 617093 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION forgets what [1,3..] and [1,3..5] desugar to
< 1325074346 711846 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t enumFromStep < 1325074347 680464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `enumFromStep' < 1325074350 915823 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t enumFromBy < 1325074351 766572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `enumFromBy' < 1325074353 444643 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop < 1325074357 718360 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t enumBy < 1325074358 41398 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t enumFromToBy < 1325074358 203126 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> enumFromThenTo 1 3 9 < 1325074358 848512 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `enumBy' < 1325074359 4851 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `enumFromToBy' < 1325074359 494511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,3,5,7,9] < 1325074360 629562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but it allows you to apply functions to inner results of parametric types thereby ignoring the usual dance you would otherwise do with >>= and such. < 1325074361 113092 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooop < 1325074364 423827 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win < 1325074370 658159 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh then < 1325074394 908892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps that's a better way to describe what I mean. < 1325074407 834875 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 20 (enumFromThen 1 3] < 1325074408 157534 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (+1) "Albert" < 1325074408 803144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `]' < 1325074409 610744 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 20 (enumFromThen 1 3) < 1325074410 619751 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29,31,33,35,37,39] < 1325074415 801249 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (+1) "Albert" < 1325074416 285339 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char) < 1325074416 446389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal `1... < 1325074431 110867 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, Strings are lists of Chars. Chars are not numbers. < 1325074439 200522 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1325074441 967950 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map succ "Albert" < 1325074442 935090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Bmcfsu" < 1325074452 193882 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map char (map (+1) (map ord "Albert")) < 1325074453 593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char' < 1325074453 156899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type... < 1325074456 266951 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (chr . (+1) . ord) "Albert" < 1325074457 882001 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Bmcfsu" < 1325074471 26194 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map chr (map (+1) (map ord "Albert")) < 1325074471 993946 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Bmcfsu" < 1325074472 316074 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1325074537 572792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1325074558 279412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: (+) <$> (read . getLine) <*> (read . getLine) < 1325074578 269331 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t readLine < 1325074578 959495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `readLine' < 1325074580 571843 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oop < 1325074586 513729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: here's an expression that reads two lines from stdin, converts them to numbers, and adds them together as the result of an IO action. < 1325074591 767058 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getLine is going to be IO String. < 1325074594 631743 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t getLine < 1325074595 601458 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO String < 1325074596 410054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325074599 704043 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Read a => IO a < 1325074600 26440 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude readLn :: Read a => IO a < 1325074600 182896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :System.IO readLn :: Read a => IO a < 1325074600 183092 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude readIO :: Read a => String -> IO a < 1325074603 580052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... my bad. < 1325074605 680465 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, readLn < 1325074621 821539 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: (+) <$> readLn <*> readLn < 1325074626 525005 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a pascback
< 1325074642 287567 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a flashback but with pascal and it's really unpleasant) < 1325074656 238431 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, we're ignoring errors, I presume? < 1325074664 433577 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pesky IO errors, that is < 1325074667 863938 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yes < 1325074675 617005 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have saved myself from pascbacks by not ever touching pascal, in the past < 1325074677 876456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for those you would want to use catch, I believe. < 1325074718 122451 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is readLn any safer than read? < 1325074725 20713 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't believe so. < 1325074728 772305 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's less safe < 1325074733 173141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's literally just read <$> getLine < 1325074742 191137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src readLn < 1325074742 392511 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :readLn = do l <- getLine; r <- readIO l; return r < 1325074753 887571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src readIO < 1325074754 43721 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1325074763 309552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah same thing I think. < 1325074774 558013 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source readLn < 1325074775 41615 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :readLn not available < 1325074791 280596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: no equally unsafe. < 1325074806 841017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still catch the exception from readLn < 1325074835 297952 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a bizarre concept of many things < 1325074864 545571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too. < 1325074881 808073 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including safety and money < 1325074894 526129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :safe money and unsafe money. < 1325074928 927769 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeBuySex < 1325074934 953069 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo..... < 1325074936 406917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :moniful safety and unmoniful safety. < 1325075461 382436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: oh by the way, functions are a Functor, Monad, and Applicative. < 1325075473 174932 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is very windy up here < 1325075482 208893 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty windy here as well. < 1325075489 727871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in Georgia (USA)) < 1325075505 251129 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1325075509 989926 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> :t chr. first < 1325075510 719871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `:' < 1325075511 203977 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Georgia, eg? < 1325075517 898836 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: just :t < 1325075518 221749 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t chr . first < 1325075519 190593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Int' < 1325075519 346999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `a (b, d) (c, d)' < 1325075519 347185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: a b c -> Int < 1325075523 860399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t first < 1325075524 225230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c d. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a (b, d) (c, d) < 1325075525 678169 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ngevd: oh by the way, functions are a Functor, Monad, and Applicative. < 1325075526 807908 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1325075533 268297 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean (->r)? < 1325075536 627315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes. < 1325075540 701503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice nitpick. < 1325075540 857796 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are functions < 1325075551 501147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: you want fst I think. < 1325075562 776718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak: first is an Arrow thing, fst is a 2-tuple thing. < 1325075562 938113 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty important distinction?? < 1325075573 4213 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t chr . fst < 1325075573 972451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. (Int, b) -> Char < 1325075575 264451 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean (->) vs (->r) < 1325075585 961954 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasnt really thinking < 1325075587 349399 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(->) isn't a function. < 1325075598 539620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is (->r) < 1325075608 380604 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're types. < 1325075609 833390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325075613 521993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nitpick
< 1325075623 189914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(->) does not represent the function type < 1325075631 942662 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not (r->)? < 1325075632 426844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes it does. < 1325075638 578545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yes < 1325075639 223132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1325075642 202794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ((->) r) < 1325075650 353013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is (r->) which is not valid Haskell. < 1325075668 991495 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waht < 1325075683 689274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: is (r->) valid syntax in Haskell? < 1325075693 99527 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the wrong part < 1325075699 78560 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc ((->) r) is (-> r) iirc < 1325075699 884522 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1325075703 893509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. < 1325075707 768415 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+) <$> (1+) <*> (2-) $ 5 < 1325075708 776499 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1325075709 583717 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1325075711 96318 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~special~ < 1325075717 801886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: .....no < 1325075725 90880 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe im just tired < 1325075728 913408 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, lambdabot does its insane functions are numbers thing < 1325075731 493872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t return < 1325075731 978533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (Monad m) => a -> m a < 1325075736 511570 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const < 1325075736 994759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b -> a < 1325075748 459711 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const + 1 < 1325075749 357398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> b -> a) < 1325075749 513657 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use... < 1325075762 367524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: m = (b->) < 1325075766 694229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises he's forgotten which way round the function monad goes.
< 1325075767 16219 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sounds convenient, but Applicative for functions is simple enough when you develop some intuition about it < 1325075799 32683 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\(l, n) -> map (chr . (+n) . ord) l < 1325075806 758074 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah im tired. i'll take your word for it because i cant think enough to do the stuff in my head < 1325075818 466688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: this makes me happy. :) < 1325075819 596138 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\(l, n) -> map (chr . (+n) . ord) l) "Whatup" 5 < 1325075820 242866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t' < 1325075820 398869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[GHC.... < 1325075822 425301 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the reader monad. The value you grab out of a function that's not fully applied is the result that the whole shebang will have when the whole shebang's argument is passed to the partially applied function. < 1325075830 93694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: because I'm not wrong by default. < 1325075840 273531 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no < 1325075840 430372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :promising. < 1325075844 706070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's r ->. < 1325075849 788118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1325075853 210882 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :opse < 1325075860 140648 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the result that the function will have when the whole shebang's argument is passed to the partially applied function < 1325075869 948423 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reader monad without Reader: < 1325075901 103079 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to paste something < 1325075914 674664 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, monad? < 1325075915 483262 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do { x <- (+1); y <- (*5); return x+y} $ 1 < 1325075916 449703 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = m a < 1325075921 357734 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1325075928 550080 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reader monad without Reader < 1325075933 804227 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do { x <- (+1); y <- (*5); return (x+y)} $ 1 < 1325075934 974250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 < 1325075937 945962 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I aspire to be a cruciverbalist < 1325075946 931103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) f g x = g x (f x) < 1325075948 262443 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> do { x <- (+1); y <- (*5); return (x,y)} $ 1 < 1325075949 229240 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (2,5) < 1325075957 629999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think.. < 1325075958 798630 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, do you know what the Reader monad is? < 1325075980 279542 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1325075985 43118 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making a joke < 1325075985 852622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reads. ha, ha. < 1325075992 453073 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mad joke
< 1325076005 262611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2x joke comob) < 1325076012 754825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 2x reference combo
< 1325076015 662231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now 3) < 1325076025 520940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha ha < 1325076029 437176 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives kallisti an A - -
< 1325076046 176752 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that good or bad.... < 1325076051 195030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell. < 1325076052 202917 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst grade imaginable < 1325076065 636296 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\(l, n) -> map (chr . (+n) . ord) l) "Whatup" 5 -- it wont work < 1325076066 320747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t' < 1325076066 477124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `[GHC.... < 1325076086 605003 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, < 1325076099 254198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ord < 1325076100 37341 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Char -> Int < 1325076105 861836 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l n -> map (chr . (+n) . ord) l) "Whatup" 5 -- this is how to do a multi-argument lambda < 1325076107 475473 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\\mfyzu" < 1325076122 275621 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aah oke thanks < 1325076143 572797 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I blow some peoples minds. < 1325076161 923247 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (`replicateM` "abc") =<< [0..] < 1325076162 622231 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["","a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","a... < 1325076180 145426 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAH < 1325076181 597797 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boom < 1325076182 242878 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the palindromes? < 1325076186 519752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: no < 1325076186 680973 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind.blown == true < 1325076193 171916 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.... < 1325076193 328730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I use that to make palindromes yes. < 1325076196 964136 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t replicateM < 1325076197 973351 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m [a] < 1325076211 33900 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets it, he thinks
< 1325076221 390439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to do with how sequence works for lists. < 1325076234 447568 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, almost get it < 1325076237 856067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src replicateM < 1325076238 12337 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :replicateM n x = sequence (replicate n x) < 1325076250 315572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence "abc" "def" < 1325076250 838151 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `m a' < 1325076250 993995 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1325076253 909317 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goo < 1325076254 232003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....looool < 1325076254 916707 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1325076265 795353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc","def"] < 1325076266 446836 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ad","ae","af","bd","be","bf","cd","ce","cf"] < 1325076278 742318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc","def","ghi"] < 1325076279 390754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["adg","adh","adi","aeg","aeh","aei","afg","afh","afi","bdg","bdh","bdi","b... < 1325076285 269953 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak, that is the same as: < 1325076296 72514 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\l -> \n -> map (chr . (+n) . ord) l) "Whatup" 5 -- this is how to do a multi-argument lambda < 1325076297 892213 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\\mfyzu" < 1325076313 817423 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence "abc" < 1325076314 667551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `m a' < 1325076314 823874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1325076320 264179 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yea < 1325076329 919216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example if you have a situation where each position of a list can be a list of possibilities, and you want to determine the list of all possibilities...... this is a terrible explanation. < 1325076355 892112 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here look at this instead: http://sprunge.us/jFQe < 1325076358 327404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good use of sequence < 1325076361 516687 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's only a terrible explanation if you have a situation where each position of a list can be a list of possibilities! < 1325076381 3446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a thing that's a list of the possible things at a given position in a list < 1325076432 584870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and another list that's a list of the possible things at another given position in a list, etc. < 1325076432 780143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc", "def"] < 1325076432 780248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["ad","ae","af","bd","be","bf","cd","ce","cf"] < 1325076433 48919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abc" is the list of possibilities for the first element < 1325076433 204491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"def" for the second < 1325076433 362179 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence [["excellent", "good", "great"], ["work", "job", "hello"]] < 1325076433 362439 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no did i mess it < 1325076433 362542 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [["excellent","work"],["excellent","job"],["excellent","hello"],["good","wo... < 1325076442 575767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in http://sprunge.us/jFQe < 1325076442 735965 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my connection just for a few seconds < 1325076455 343434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use sequence to output the possibilities for the letter sequences of a telephone number < 1325076473 407519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(back in the day number pads on telephones had these letters on them and you could use them to spell out stuff...) < 1325076480 818757 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used sequence to make compliments < 1325076497 39845 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like excellent hello < 1325076520 920898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway if you do sequence (replicate n ls) < 1325076523 497800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where ls = "abc" < 1325076527 122491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're basically saying < 1325076536 489152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sequence ["abc", "abc", ..., "abc"] < 1325076539 323312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to n < 1325076558 971562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sequence ["abc", "abc", "abc"] < 1325076559 456922 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["aaa","aab","aac","aba","abb","abc","aca","acb","acc","baa","bab","bac","b... < 1325076568 485124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible combinations of a, b, and c of link 3 < 1325076570 908437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then... < 1325076582 300069 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you should learn the Reader monad < 1325076590 686814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`replicateM` "abc") =<< [0..] < 1325076605 570748 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the Env Comonad because excitement < 1325076611 455802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just concatenates all of those lists together, for every length n. < 1325076621 847709 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/link/length/ < 1325076639 211555 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, wait 'till I've learnt monads < 1325076649 98862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325076654 570287 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learning how to use a monad is different from learning how monads work. < 1325076655 365161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's a good thing to learan < 1325076692 307193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/how monads work/what a monad is/ < 1325076702 250957 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what monad work, how monad is < 1325076714 459663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: monad is but doesn't wor. < 1325076716 18578 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1325076717 354403 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1325076721 650183 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wor.k. < 1325076735 31224 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is friendship a monad < 1325076744 270605 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can escape friendship. < 1325076749 311719 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1325076754 431701 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is friendship a comonad < 1325076759 342871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... < 1325076760 149907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1325076766 548210 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is dual to friendship < 1325076768 847560 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits kallisti with a bunch of functions whose name begins with run
< 1325076777 767445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not monadic functions < 1325076782 386090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not monad things. < 1325076786 986850 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs don't exist < 1325076788 360972 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry sgeo < 1325076806 523227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :runList = head < 1325076810 479742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL MONADS CAN BE ESCAPED FROM < 1325076817 697769 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325076818 343844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :runlist is a filthy lie < 1325076819 797137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no escape < 1325076821 734911 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION did not say in general
< 1325076823 671001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will die in monad forever. < 1325076838 613394 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that it's wrong to say no monads can be escaped from for limited definitions of escape < 1325076846 260627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325076850 676098 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafePerformIO < 1325076853 94141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't escape friendship monad < 1325076856 317263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :proven fact < 1325076856 473702 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeCoerce < 1325076856 963772 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1325076868 366115 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-145-248.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: See ya Sunday < 1325076870 527722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325076874 487030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can escape friendship not-monad < 1325076874 808512 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1325076876 509776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED < 1325076882 822393 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1325076907 353199 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with comonads you can make a friendship-friendship < 1325076923 177411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ARE OUR FRIENDSHIPS FRIENDSHIPS < 1325076926 699500 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't quite understand comonas
< 1325076929 644850 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :comonads < 1325076934 901943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: think like monad but backwards. < 1325076936 936143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flipped turnways < 1325076941 183026 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pretty much the same < 1325076960 853103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they are opposites. < 1325076965 51104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are opposites the same? < 1325076965 696944 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the same < 1325076967 394443 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325076970 416641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1325076972 299379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are the same. < 1325076975 935709 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you think Reader is a good example Monad, take a look at Env < 1325076991 932584 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it may or may not even be conceptually simpler than Reader < 1325076999 280814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks Maybe is a good example monad.
< 1325077008 611663 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is comaybe? < 1325077011 726941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like... the bare minimum < 1325077013 377531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of what you need < 1325077014 505777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be a monad. < 1325077019 160791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of. < 1325077020 454025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1325077024 569296 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you mean, other than trivial stuff? < 1325077028 326960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325077039 23401 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Trivial monad < 1325077047 762241 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running from his alter-ego, Identity < 1325077080 379320 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think maybe is a comonad... < 1325077088 527525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :extract = ??? < 1325077104 100256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(partial functions are cheating) < 1325077116 196568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'll bbl. < 1325077191 665549 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of anything that could reasonably be called comaybe < 1325077200 2037 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Maybe is an Extend < 1325077254 910738 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I saw examples of Env in use... < 1325077272 83512 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1325077322 690226 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Env: (some state, some value) < 1325077327 802175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reader: some state -> some value < 1325077644 982855 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd example but I can't think of anything interestjing < 1325077695 508907 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325078035 778735 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i Env < 1325078073 91226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : comonad < 1325078120 946842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR from that cothings in category theory are what you get when you reverse the direction of morphisms or something. < 1325078182 57980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, rather than having f : X → Y, F : C → D, F(f) : F(X) → F(Y), you have F(f) : F(Y) → F(X). < 1325078195 513660 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I suppose a comonad would... hmm. < 1325078294 874309 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also F(f . g) = F(g) . F(f). < 1325078392 28382 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>t liftA2 (+) id id 5 < 1325078398 6124 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> liftA2 (+) id id 5 < 1325078398 973785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1325078462 275077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, comonads are monads with all the function types reversed. < 1325078636 772053 :kallisti!~eris@h135.6.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325078637 256206 :kallisti!~eris@h135.6.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325078637 412540 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1325078665 951582 :PatashuXantheres!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325078708 214558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi my name is kallist i < 1325078789 119483 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, kallist. My name is Taneb|Lunch < 1325078793 726862 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net NICK :Taneb|Lunch < 1325078807 398764 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Lunch: mmmm delicious < 1325079431 427476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Lunch: http://sprunge.us/jFQet < 1325079442 196732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should examine this awesome program. < 1325079465 923282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jFQet not found < 1325079469 191565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best program? < 1325079496 188550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Lunch: http://sprunge.us/jFQe < 1325079498 487205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oopse < 1325079554 73528 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb|Lunch: it's one of those questions that's asked on job interviews. < 1325079568 41986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a telephone number print all of the possible character sequences that it forms. < 1325079972 533454 :Taneb|Lunch!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net NICK :Ngevd < 1325079973 658172 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1325080039 127943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't know why I import Control.Applicative. < 1325080091 410800 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325080098 472688 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Times Person of the Year 2011... died in 2010 < 1325080103 126219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome incomprehensibly < 1325080106 652524 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: < 1325080117 884182 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1325080121 598590 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome < 1325080125 395570 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325080128 948271 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1325080137 640702 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/welcome < 1325080141 282371 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } < 1325080195 162311 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome test < 1325080198 754660 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :test: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325080208 7899 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcom Ngevd < 1325080211 557255 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcom: not found < 1325080214 12054 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Ngevd < 1325080217 728428 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325080219 504851 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome incomprehensibly < 1325080223 138783 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1325080226 86917 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325080237 849253 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to normal < 1325080315 547133 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: anyway it's a pretty un-noteworthy program, except that I use the monad over lists to do something. < 1325080363 502504 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I use lookup for lists, but in a "real program" you'd usually want to use Data.Map's lookup instead. < 1325080415 387053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup on [(a,b)] is O(n) worst case. lookup on Map a b is O(log n) worst case. < 1325080612 765607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (M.fromList undefined <$>) < 1325080613 788621 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' < 1325080613 944265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `M.Map k a1' < 1325080613 944529 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `(<$>)', namely `M.fromList undefined' < 1325080627 711505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes. < 1325080633 89122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap (M.fromList undefined) < 1325080634 61302 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `a -> b' < 1325080634 217490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `M.Map k a1' < 1325080634 217689 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `fmap', namely `(M.fromList undefined)' < 1325080640 192889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, indeed < 1325080649 472692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<$> M.fromList undefined) < 1325080650 350246 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b k. (Ord k) => (a -> b) -> M.Map k b < 1325080708 80 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. But I doubt Data.Map has an Applicative instance because there's no Ord instance for functions. < 1325080976 809247 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it doesn't need an ord instance... < 1325081006 528286 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to do something else for a bit < 1325081008 158013 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye! < 1325081009 288500 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325081066 109886 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm weird. < 1325081081 749860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I guess pure is difficult to define for Map. < 1325081153 133590 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for a pure for lists, you need to make it an infinite list rather than a singleton < 1325081154 100554 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1325081161 437070 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else <*> doesn't work right always < 1325081167 517029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, pure for lists works fine. < 1325081170 668607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pure 1 < 1325081171 635793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (f t)) < 1325081171 792890 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M1276157568... < 1325081174 217267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325081178 779112 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325081191 856701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pure 1 :: [Int] < 1325081192 722059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1] < 1325081227 40140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: why can't you read my mind??? < 1325081289 349684 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (pure (+1)) <*> [1, 2, 3] < 1325081290 210437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,4] < 1325081292 999433 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325081317 521288 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [(+1), (+2)] <*> [1, 2, 3] < 1325081318 366891 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,3,4,3,4,5] < 1325081328 601736 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325081334 546454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: perhaps you were thinking of zipWith ($) < 1325081337 127709 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought <*> was like zipWtih ($) < 1325081338 941418 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325081374 302611 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good objective-c channel? < 1325081379 979039 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no such thing. < 1325081383 528420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know) < 1325081385 832419 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325081395 190308 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I need to ask a question somewhere < 1325081405 390908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try #objective-c but I don't if that's a thing. < 1325081414 105275 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325081431 542512 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... #iphone maybe? I doubt it. < 1325081436 224009 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to find like an iphone dev channel < 1325081442 333051 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... an objective-c channel. < 1325081445 131673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION helpful.
< 1325081467 70837 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#iphonedev is it < 1325081472 698687 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I figured out my problem myself :P < 1325081486 517635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's always good. < 1325081940 489638 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Monad class defines the basic operations over a monad, a concept from a branch of mathematics known as category theory. From the perspective of a Haskell programmer, however, it is best to think of a monad as an abstract datatype of actions." < 1325081945 380502 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :untrue, Haskell docs < 1325081953 373782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that it's helpful to think of them that way) < 1325082234 97091 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly, have you been here before? < 1325082252 357210 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, I lurk a lot and occasionally talk < 1325082262 970864 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah, that pisses me off < 1325082282 696584 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the only place it fits is like IO and State < 1325082293 991761 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also fits in List and Maybe. < 1325082298 893378 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for [], Maybe, etc., it's completely off < 1325082303 373835 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not fit them in any way whatsoever < 1325082303 536773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1325082310 704959 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a list is not an action. it's the results of an action. < 1325082312 319620 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe is obviously computations which can fail. < 1325082313 771476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it fits sort of. < 1325082318 417175 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not /helpful/ for learning. < 1325082321 484692 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Maybe is the *answers* to those computations. < 1325082325 398431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh actions... okay what does that mean" < 1325082333 42183 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO actually encodes actions < 1325082342 217245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Maybe represents sequencing actions that can possibly fail. < 1325082348 353282 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you have putStrLn "something" or getLine, and those are actions that you can do < 1325082352 304387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :List is trickier, but when you think about it the monad represents nondeterministic computation. < 1325082353 112306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :list represents sequencing actions with many possible results. < 1325082354 842946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of fits. < 1325082357 78784 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes, but a value of type Maybe a is *not* an action. < 1325082363 264998 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a value of type list is *not* an action. < 1325082369 108354 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the type doesn't represent actions. < 1325082371 833119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well, yes. < 1325082373 774971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is State. < 1325082373 931132 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1325082379 143806 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how…? < 1325082384 104019 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is like a list of instructions < 1325082386 525232 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it encodes an action < 1325082387 816370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A value of type Maybe is an action which can either result in a value or fail. < 1325082389 870687 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Maybe and list do not < 1325082397 402347 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how is Just 3 an action? < 1325082400 186494 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is Nothing an action? < 1325082408 399386 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the results of an action which has already been done. < 1325082415 60706 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same way (return 3) :: IO Int is an action. < 1325082425 450056 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :return 3 can be later *executed*. < 1325082428 36468 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as State < 1325082434 723926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define 'executed' here. < 1325082446 229090 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of IO, handed to the Haskell runtime and performed < 1325082455 67401 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of State, handed an input value, right? < 1325082465 198171 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functions are monads, right? < 1325082475 397438 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :giving them an argument is executing that action < 1325082476 44918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; this came up earlier today. < 1325082484 895324 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, for Just 3, there's no way to execute that < 1325082495 826375 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe does not encode actions. it just encodes values that can be the results of actions. < 1325082553 289460 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying that Just 3 is an action is the same type of confusion as saying that getLine is a String. < 1325082562 338251 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the opposite direction < 1325082562 494014 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1325082568 850304 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getLine is manifestly not a String. < 1325082575 968824 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and Just 3 is manifestly not an action. < 1325082584 359578 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have an IO (Maybe a) < 1325082588 739373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Action is not a type. < 1325082590 558343 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that* is an action that can succeed or fail < 1325082599 650855 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Maybe a is just the answer to that action. < 1325082608 668434 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a concept we're assigning to certain things. < 1325082635 863331 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm saying it makes no sense to assign it to Just 3. < 1325082638 813704 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 3 an action? < 1325082662 762727 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Just 3 is an action, 3 is too. < 1325082682 699026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to be saying that a monad is an action if there's a function m a -> a. < 1325082695 208496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're confusing "action" with "things that perform side-effects". and you think we're saying "action" means "value" < 1325082700 165763 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, because there is no function for that with IO < 1325082702 140666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :State is not an action by your own definition. < 1325082724 710010 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, forget State < 1325082729 67002 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at Parsec < 1325082741 564720 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :although State is an action by my own definition < 1325082747 838047 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it encodes an action that you can later perform < 1325082753 689262 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What *is* your own definition? < 1325082771 435920 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's yours? < 1325082776 728295 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just stated mine < 1325082797 522589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does fromMaybe count as an action by your definition? < 1325082799 520987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: "encodes an action that you can later perform" describes any lazily evaluated expression. < 1325082806 215309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realize that State is implemented with pure code, yes? < 1325082811 78061 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then every value in Haskell is now an action < 1325082817 177664 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes, I realize that. < 1325082818 997022 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs
< 1325082819 153111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's doing no more than 'executing' State. < 1325082837 783013 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if lazily evaluated values, thunks, etc., are actions, then every single value in Haskell is an actino < 1325082853 496596 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's *still* an abstract difference between State, ->, IO, etc. than 3 < 1325082853 652831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldr "executes" a list. < 1325082873 788717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: we're not talking about 3 < 1325082876 439902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about Maybe a < 1325082878 161322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or [a] < 1325082887 684785 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well what's the difference between [3] and Just 3 and 3 in terms of action-ness? < 1325082948 459901 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if [3] is an action because of lazy evaluation, the exact same logic applies to 3. < 1325082973 782518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that Identity 3 is basically the same as what you're saying about 3. < 1325083002 748526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this is basically a semantic thing around the meaning of "action" < 1325083032 136016 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying, people are confusing levels of a hierarchy by saying that the list monad is an actino < 1325083034 234889 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :action* < 1325083053 311036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think [a] represents an action so much as it represents a value within an action. specifically, a value with zero or more possible values, with >> and >>= acting as a means to sequence computations over these values. < 1325083074 584473 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists do not represent actions. < 1325083080 997531 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :values of type IO do represent actions. < 1325083091 209813 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1325083106 809849 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because lists are plain old values < 1325083109 716845 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO is also plain old values < 1325083114 661482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore? < 1325083116 959687 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's also instrucitons you can execute < 1325083117 967280 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, IO is conceptually just State RealWorld, and State is no more esoteric than a list. < 1325083133 939802 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but State is an action you can perform < 1325083135 392897 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is -> < 1325083155 986800 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get what consing 3 with [] does to it that makes it an action < 1325083159 940311 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still a number < 1325083164 635700 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't tell you how to do something < 1325083188 670180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if State represents an action < 1325083191 91988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does tuples. < 1325083200 725385 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you can do some godel encoding stuff and encode actions of type IO in Ints, but then you're missing the point: my definition of action is not defined by the type system < 1325083204 355731 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's defined by how the type is used < 1325083222 356034 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, Writer is the tuple monad. < 1325083255 871992 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sure, you can say foldl "executes" a list, and if the list somehow encodes things that foldl can do, and you can frame it that way, then lists are actions. but lists are not being used as actions in the list monad < 1325083265 954900 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the Identity monad is not an action like -> is < 1325083284 351812 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Id is a plain old container < 1325083306 578743 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you do Id 1 >>= (Id . (+1)), the value you get is just Id 2 < 1325083324 648441 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get instructions describing how to take a value and add one to it < 1325083327 713525 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid that you appear to be hopelessly confused, and as I am myself slightly more hopefully confused I can't really help. < 1325083328 883368 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: I'm saying that your own definition is inconsistent because it permits State to be an action but not a list. < 1325083339 912193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wait until elliott turns up, he can probably yell at you for a while. < 1325083367 436361 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: my definition is not inconsistent because there's no boolean predicate over types that tells you whether it's an action! < 1325083382 128736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's your own whim < 1325083382 289652 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just how you use it < 1325083382 641099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1325083384 254616 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't argue that. < 1325083386 552106 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs
< 1325083386 708557 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry on. < 1325083389 431762 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not my own whim < 1325083392 844884 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in how the type is used. < 1325083395 427609 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has criteria < 1325083396 72381 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use lists as actions < 1325083400 185378 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: my definition is not inconsistent because there's no boolean predicate over types that tells you whether it's an action! < 1325083409 30910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure there is; the one in your head. < 1325083421 387194 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, but there are more arguments than just the specification of the type < 1325083428 718710 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as, how it is currently being used. < 1325083443 53329 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the action is not determined by the type alone, but by what return and >>= are, but that scarcely matters. < 1325083468 601027 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference between const 3 and 3. < 1325083473 482944 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is an action that returns 3 < 1325083478 568131 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, wait, *type transformer or whatever. < 1325083481 664054 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second is just the plain old 3 < 1325083490 902396 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same thing is true of const [3] and [3] < 1325083498 342377 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is a function that can return multiple values < 1325083502 655614 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second *is* those multiple values < 1325083509 78729 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :const (Just 3) is the same thing < 1325083515 93332 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a function that can possibly succeed or fail < 1325083517 651436 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens to succed < 1325083526 793688 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 3 is not an action that can succeed or fail, but the *answer* to such an action. < 1325083533 34672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are definitely hopelessly confused here. < 1325083536 542381 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1325083537 549843 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1325083556 668452 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try going into #haskell, there should be some not very confused at all people in there. < 1325083560 878023 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a distinction between layers of a hierarchy < 1325083565 437329 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being so patronizing < 1325083584 449468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not being patronising, you're just really confused. < 1325083588 726091 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm not really confused. < 1325083589 210879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: IO (IO a) IO a is just a value you get form an action, not an action itself. etc. < 1325083601 125100 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1325083604 71158 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're calling Just 3 an action, you're really confused, and I don't see how you have any grounds tro call me confused < 1325083619 212425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, my own definition of 'action' is itself a rather nebulous thing which can only function if you aren't looking it too closely. < 1325083622 798747 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yep, that's true! however, IO a is *also* an action itself. < 1325083627 563983 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schrodinger's definition, if you will. < 1325083628 695207 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a hierarchy < 1325083647 887523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the hell did you arrive at hierarchies from. < 1325083648 534794 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: IO (IO a) is an action that returns an action that returns another value that may or may not be an action, depending on what it is and how it's uisd < 1325083650 30360 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :used* < 1325083650 354139 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: which suddenly fails on lists and maybe. not only does it fail, it can be demonstrated to fail because of the examples you provide above. < 1325083655 756542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, go into #haskell now. < 1325083656 243372 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not tree hierarchies < 1325083658 988720 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: just levels < 1325083667 106389 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs
< 1325083673 194734 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is Just 3 an action? < 1325083676 255710 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we go back to that? < 1325083677 310741 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: >>= < 1325083677 956833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that much about monads, and kallisti knows less than he thinks he does. < 1325083678 602207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and >> < 1325083679 933451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and return < 1325083690 487118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/and >>// < 1325083693 270556 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: using >>= is performing an action < 1325083702 503005 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't mean Just 3 is an action < 1325083708 950616 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly, yes, it does. < 1325083717 434290 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just 3 >>= (Just . (+1)) < 1325083721 977399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By using >>= on Just 3, you are performing the associated action. < 1325083724 273606 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not building up an action < 1325083729 157268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: so then IO is also not an action < 1325083729 313454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. succeeding with a value or failing. < 1325083732 903917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :using >>= on IO a is an action < 1325083734 273889 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ok, you're *performing the associated action* < 1325083737 495465 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Just 3 is not an action itself < 1325083741 48071 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1325083743 26559 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a value, with an associated action. < 1325083770 553868 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Just 3 is a very different thing from the code that performs Just 3 >>= (Just . (+1)) < 1325083776 608282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a contains actions which either succeed, resulting in a value, or fail, resulting in Nothing. < 1325083780 668280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: except when that code returns Just 3 < 1325083784 464014 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they're the same < 1325083785 432145 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly < 1325083791 713130 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs
< 1325083799 302399 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is different from the value that it returns < 1325083808 162778 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like const 3 is different from 3 < 1325083812 381713 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like IO a is different from a < 1325083812 704954 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a] contains actions which result in a list of values. < 1325083814 642619 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and id 3 is different from 3 < 1325083815 287412 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you not comprehend this < 1325083830 668726 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, [a] encodes those lists of values itself < 1325083851 496079 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a -> [b] is an example of an action that returns multiple values < 1325083853 595692 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or IO [a] < 1325083861 244086 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: id 3 is equal to 3 < 1325083865 642440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: you're not going to get anywhere by repeating yourself. < 1325083878 827087 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Just 3 >>= (Just . (+1)) is equal to Just 4 < 1325083882 538770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore Just 4 is an action. < 1325083889 436065 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not follow < 1325083898 375241 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1325083899 221063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :State r a contains actions which produce a value from some state r, and can alter r in the process. < 1325083902 488103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your definition is inconsistent. < 1325083906 764153 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1325083916 501906 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: correct < 1325083932 920061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that different from either [a] or Maybe a. < 1325083939 131779 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does lambdabot know about the function monad? < 1325083943 268886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325083963 206566 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const 3 >>= (const . id) < 1325083964 175318 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (b -> a) < 1325083964 331412 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1325083971 4228 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const 3 >>= (const . (+1)) () < 1325083971 973777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `b -> b1' against inferred type `()' < 1325083981 420246 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (const 3 >>= (const . (+1))) () < 1325083981 743269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The function monad contains actions which produce a value from some constant. < 1325083983 197170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1325084033 185592 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell your definition of action is: < 1325084045 38383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) IO values b) State values c) code written with >>= and >> < 1325084051 544066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a really useless definition of action. < 1325084062 179708 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an incredibly frustrating conversation, and I am not enjoying the way you are all talking down to me. I have thought through this position, and I've used Haskell. I'm not a baby. You don't have to act like I'm one. < 1325084064 119015 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1325084086 938481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly, I'm not. < 1325084104 965590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: saying you're wrong is different from talking down to you. < 1325084108 405969 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "you're very confused. go talk to #haskell and they'll fix you up right quick" < 1325084118 433677 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you're not at all < 1325084120 363603 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I barely have any idea of what I'm talking about, and kallisti doesn't have much more. < 1325084138 8080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In #haskell, there are, surprise surprise, people who know what they are talking about. < 1325084146 518880 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, imagine a piece of paper that has, written on it, the words "wash your hands". < 1325084162 901275 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine a person washing their hands < 1325084173 614641 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine that person's hands before, dirty, and after, clean. < 1325084182 984767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish you could force people to join channels. < 1325084190 256670 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in #haskell. < 1325084190 735391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :try invite < 1325084211 694774 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish you could force people to talk in another channel. < 1325084216 727356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can paste everything you say? < 1325084225 465196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you. < 1325084344 165486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: btw in your metaphor values of type IO a are the paper saying "wash your hands" < 1325084355 706727 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325084362 387642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325084372 978122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm quitting stack overflow if this guy keeps asking terrible questions < 1325084376 644796 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1325084386 572470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, speak of the devil and he shall appear ten minutes after you needed him. < 1325084400 664458 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: and Maybe a would be a type that either includes clean hands or failure < 1325084418 717821 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what makes Just 3 an action that doesn't make 3 an action too < 1325084425 181261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: State does not match your metaphor < 1325084444 570725 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how does it not < 1325084445 904748 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :state is not a piece of paper that encodes an action to do anything (aka it doesn't represent a side-effect to be performed) < 1325084449 296957 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly, the fact that 3 doesn't have bind or return defined? < 1325084456 743023 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing something doesn't have to mean performing a side effect < 1325084465 420967 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can mean transforming a pure value < 1325084481 776502 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have confused monads with functions. < 1325084487 558888 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs
< 1325084491 519559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is quite difficult, and I applaud your perseverance. < 1325084491 715249 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to have confused what I'm saying. < 1325084505 846960 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you say you're not talking down to me < 1325084506 976263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: State does not transform anything < 1325084508 670686 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does IO < 1325084517 219187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that matter < 1325084519 74349 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'er putting zero effort into understanding me, then treating me like I don't know anything < 1325084528 259156 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're talking down to me < 1325084531 973060 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're being an asshole < 1325084543 157825 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly, I'm talking down to you now, because I dislike people who assume that because they don't understand things, those things are flawed. < 1325084543 803716 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: watch this < 1325084552 144008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: what makes Just 3 an action that doesn't make 3 an action too < 1325084554 888585 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I understand those things, probably better than you do. < 1325084562 799335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: 3 is not of type (m a) for some m that is an instance of Monad. < 1325084598 992651 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm disputing that action is an apt name for values of type Monad a => m a < 1325084600 521044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION usually reserves "action" for IO actions, but speaking about "monadic actions" in general is meaningful since "monadic value" is misleading (suggests the value passed to return is "inside" somehow, at least I see this perception a lot when that terminology is used)
< 1325084607 64116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: no one has talked down to you. we said you were wrong. < 1325084612 301600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are different things. < 1325084621 788707 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Phantom_Hoover has talked down to me < 1325084626 391906 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: not simply said that I'm wrong < 1325084653 908495 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1325084661 800383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: shame on you. < 1325084672 472052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: shame on you for claiming to know more than Phantom_Hoover < 1325084682 328768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: shame on you for being reasonable. < 1325084691 554205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: shame on you because I don't know what am I doing wrong. < 1325084700 671214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:25:48: as in, you have putStrLn "something" or getLine, and those are actions that you can do < 1325084700 833307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:25:52: List is trickier, but when you think about it the monad represents nondeterministic computation. < 1325084700 989745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:25:57: kallisti: yes, but a value of type Maybe a is *not* an action. < 1325084700 989942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:26:03: a value of type list is *not* an action. < 1325084701 156219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:26:09: so the type doesn't represent actions. < 1325084703 297540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: A value of type [a] can easily be interpreted as an action in a nondeterministic backtracking language, such as e.g. Prolog. < 1325084708 278763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that it can also be not interpreted as this is irrelevant. < 1325084721 617470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe a) is an action in a partial short-circuiting language, etc. < 1325084729 608226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Either e a) is an action in a language with exceptions of type e. < 1325084747 251945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The existence of other valid interpretations of these values does not invalidate the action interpretation. < 1325084749 188282 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an action in that short-circuiting language, it's a value that you get out of that language. < 1325084755 799994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed that interpretation is rqequired to understand the use of do notationw ith them. < 1325084760 703784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: same logic applies with IO, sir. < 1325084762 561332 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an action of that language would be, e.g., an AST. right? < 1325084768 791932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: No, the value of type `a` would be the value you get out of that language. < 1325084771 91306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, untrue. < 1325084813 714522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:27:05: return 3 can be later *executed*. < 1325084813 907354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:27:08: same as State < 1325084815 328837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t maybe < 1325084816 296735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b < 1325084819 206485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runCont < 1325084820 214453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall r a. Cont r a -> (a -> r) -> r < 1325084829 140099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I failed to find a good example for lists < 1325084831 565833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :runMaybe :: Maybe a -> r -> (a -> r) -> r < 1325084831 927936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I went with foldr < 1325084839 574568 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it seems like to me is that since IO is the most prominent monad, since it's used in every compilable Haskell program, etc., people often ascribe features of it to all monads < 1325084842 239861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Note essential identicality to runCont. < 1325084855 373858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not do that at all.
< 1325084870 50766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very powerful to realise that monads are essentially mini programming languages, viewed from the lens of do notation. < 1325084888 162852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe is a partial embedded DSL, IO is an imperative embedded DSL. < 1325084889 332516 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the common misconceptions that monads are a language feature, or a way to cheat to put impurity in a pure language, or that monads are about side effects < 1325084890 719768 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1325084893 704068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :State is a stateful embedded DSL. < 1325084903 276865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cont is a call/cc-having embedded DSL. < 1325084906 629179 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think calling values of a monad "actions" is another misconception < 1325084914 666424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Yes, and I think you're wrong. < 1325084922 758834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's unhelpful for teaching monads, but not incorrect to say. < 1325084922 915024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is under no confusion as to what your position is.
< 1325084932 717923 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a monad is has nothing to do with actions < 1325084933 862756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: what it is it that makes a value of IO a an action. < 1325084936 484083 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to do with layers < 1325084939 347711 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unit and join < 1325084945 437765 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding and removing layers of a functor < 1325084953 64669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Yes, that is one interpretation. < 1325084956 726248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not saying monads are "about" actions. < 1325084963 734460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am saying that "monadic action" is reasonable, consistent, meaningful terminology. < 1325084971 219171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That does not mean I think they betray some deep underlying truth about monads or anything. < 1325084984 282500 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm saying that actions is an interpretation that applies to only a subset of monads, and has nothing to do with the qualities inherent in a monad, but simply with some specific applications of them < 1325085004 98966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : incomprehensibly: Yes, and I think you're wrong. < 1325085004 300658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* elliott is under no confusion as to what your position is. < 1325085017 186210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please stop trying to tell me what you're saying as a substitute for actually replying to things I say. < 1325085031 289971 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not < 1325085046 737749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why are you trying to tell me what you're saying? < 1325085087 928292 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the types of runMaybe and runCont are the same < 1325085094 165178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe < 1325085095 296320 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean every container is an action? < 1325085098 686953 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325085102 328173 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1325085106 736613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1325085107 422193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends what you mean by "container". < 1325085107 906808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does. < 1325085117 793921 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because any container you make, if it can be nested, is an action by that definition < 1325085124 48197 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can make a function of the same type < 1325085125 539765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends what you mean by "container". < 1325085131 239738 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it means that every container for which you can define return and join is an action. < 1325085138 780845 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not at all odd. < 1325085141 43392 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: will you stop being so god damn condescending towards me < 1325085155 476464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that he doesn't think he completely agrees with kallisti or Phantom_Hoover here, so please don't take their answers as my answers.
< 1325085168 158199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, kallisti isn't being condescending? If anyone's being condescending it's Phantom_Hoover (this is a universal truth). < 1325085178 517957 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "okay. yes it does." < 1325085187 510552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: you didn't supply a very good reason there. < 1325085189 787821 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just hear the condescension and rolleyes exuding from his messages < 1325085195 370248 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I was *about to*, and I did < 1325085196 339374 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I am a victim to mindless peer pressure < 1325085196 824898 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does depend on what 'container' means, but it looks like you just mean any t a. < 1325085197 347862 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1325085200 780115 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you be the slightest bit patient? < 1325085218 583663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1325085219 229465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: You're mistaking kallisti being stupid and/or annoying for condescending. < 1325085228 461991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION keeper of peace.
< 1325085248 81324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, if you're going to interpret things that uncharitably and personally this is a waste of time. < 1325085250 29688 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, kallisti, I've just been informed you're being stupid and/or annoying < 1325085257 38173 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than condescending < 1325085259 498342 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for the misunderstanding < 1325085261 477340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously the condescension from my messages spilt over. < 1325085283 207939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: I hate your mother. < 1325085287 976898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Pretty condescending of you, no? < 1325085291 458971 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1325085305 664025 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm incredibly frustrated with this conversation < 1325085314 952377 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to give i tup < 1325085317 939159 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it up* < 1325085342 778055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. this is what happens when two people think they're right in different ways. < 1325085343 585525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Okay, we'll put it down in the history books that you lost. < 1325085360 160958 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine with me < 1325085368 122427 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care how #esoteric defines winning < 1325085376 314902 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will also be accused of inhumanity < 1325085378 850062 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent, now we just wait until elliott reads oerjan's comments in the logs and get some popcorn. < 1325085379 536008 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they define it as poorly as they define action, it really means nothing < 1325085384 652827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the conversation is about convincing the other person. it becomes frustrating when they refuse to be convinced because they're trying to convince you as well. < 1325085395 625728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :waste of time. this should be obvious. < 1325085402 510780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: For someone complaining about how rude we're all being you sure are being a twerp. < 1325085405 937884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Twerp: best word?) < 1325085414 152260 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was attempting to be respectful before < 1325085422 47292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, considering "action" is common terminology throughout the Haskell community, we're in very good company. < 1325085434 133516 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I don't like about the Haskell community < 1325085438 766903 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole business with monads < 1325085464 124022 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so cargo cult < 1325085479 913780 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people use monads everywhere, and monad transformers < 1325085485 807490 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while they *work*, they make your code uglier than most Java < 1325085485 969217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I think monads are actions because someone told me to interpret it that way. < 1325085494 2982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: No; that's people who look at Haskell from outside and are unable to distinguish people who know Haskell from people who dabble in it. < 1325085506 955631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, ironically, that complaint only applies to certain monads. < 1325085510 123141 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly, you know, you can just stop digging this hole. < 1325085528 173509 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's definitely the worst with the IO monad < 1325085533 825514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, putting everything in IO is ugly, yes, putting everything in State is ugly, no, threading error-handling with Either is not ugly, no, modelling nondeterministic computation with [] or a probability monad is not ugly. < 1325085554 177914 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: yes I agree. IO monad is bad for Haskell code. < 1325085556 115093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you go into #haskell you will see people warned away from putting everything in IO, so unless you provide an actual basis for this cargo-culting claim... < 1325085560 442656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should get rid of IO. < 1325085567 19106 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make compilation much easier. < 1325085571 334524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Now you *are* being a shit. < 1325085575 654003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooool < 1325085584 227871 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think so too, but there are possible good replacements < 1325085589 997659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Anyway, it's not like we can just switch to FRP tomorrow so until then the IO monad will continue to be used more than we'd like. < 1325085593 38118 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, an FRP system would be way more desirable < 1325085597 76033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just joking. < 1325085605 98485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Whining about cargo culting when the alternatives are still topics of active research is shitty. < 1325085607 522589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stopped taking this conversation seriously long ago. < 1325085619 753255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Especially since the Haskell community is one of the only communities actually actively developing FRP. < 1325085631 875371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I say "one of" because I think Scala has a thing that's gaining traction.) < 1325085640 81683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Otherwise it'd just be the one, singular. Well, there's that Agda thing too.) < 1325085645 635323 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've read too much that extols the virtues of monads and how beautifully they solve the problem of IO < 1325085650 642887 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, Simon Peyton JOnes < 1325085669 853230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not indicative of some kind of mindless Haskell IO monad cult. < 1325085681 103109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: The IO monad is the best way to model imperative programs I've seen; it's first-class, higher-order, etc. etc. etc. < 1325085688 793913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's separate from the issue of how good it is to model IO in general. < 1325085714 427399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Anyway, you're obviously not actually in the Haskell community or you'd know that most people aren't satisfied with IO. < 1325085730 565715 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "in the Haskell community" mean < 1325085757 24724 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I follow Haskellers, I'm occasionally active in #haskell, etc. < 1325085764 685091 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm outside it because I hold different impressions than you < 1325085768 31688 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no true scotsman < 1325085776 648875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Dunno, but I know that thinking everyone stuffs everything into monads and thinks IO is the best thing ever proves you aren't. < 1325085826 85345 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't want this to come across antagonistically or condescendingly, but don't try to hold the Haskell community to such a high standard < 1325085832 655665 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not God, and it's not the perfectest < 1325085834 147922 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i's just people < 1325085843 565052 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't have to rationalize all of its follies < 1325085845 197941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol? < 1325085848 425491 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some bad sides to it < 1325085851 511389 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: lol? < 1325085859 490238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it funny that you inferred that, somehow < 1325085861 952586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from elliott just said. < 1325085864 865209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+what < 1325085873 472794 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: he's trying to redefine the Haskell community to fit all of his personal beliefs < 1325085877 238800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Dammit: you've uncovered my secret promotoin of the Haskell Master Race. < 1325085877 561714 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly, the Haskell community is not perfect, therefore it must be full of Nazis! < 1325085881 514767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*promotion < 1325085882 160486 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED. < 1325085886 796148 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, that's what I said < 1325085888 896979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *SIMULTANEOUS GODWIN HIGH-FIVE* < 1325085889 58879 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: good job < 1325085890 805282 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pats on head
< 1325085893 268506 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :godwin's law also applies to haskell < 1325085896 52940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: not elliott is actually familiar with the Haskell community < 1325085896 901103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: Oh go away. < 1325085900 563481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: this is not his agenda. < 1325085909 686803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/not/no/ < 1325085916 352432 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly, no, but it's implied by what you said. < 1325085921 624596 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying, elliott is exhibiting fanboyish loyalty to a community < 1325085924 954751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, totally. < 1325085929 514306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psychoanalyse me harder!!! < 1325085930 701822 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: if you go to #haskell they will caution you from overzealous use of IO and (I would think) monad transformers. < 1325085934 620258 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :redefining it to fit his personal beliefs whenever he disagrees with a common belief there < 1325085937 206047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE DEFENDED IT AGAINST A SINGLE PIECE OF CRITICISM < 1325085945 755054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sentence him to death by accusations of fanboy. < 1325085953 914904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly: but seriously though, go away. < 1325085990 783965 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://d37nnnqwv9amwr.cloudfront.net/entries/icons/original/000/003/617/okayguy.jpg < 1325086028 485179 :incomprehensibly!~Adium@67-41-190-96.slkc.qwest.net PART :#esoteric < 1325086030 927449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! Rage faces! Excellent! < 1325086037 633112 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incomprehensibly has beaten the Kola Superdeep Borehole for deepest hole! < 1325086038 117290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's assured I will never wish he comes back. < 1325086049 895817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BTW, I'm pretty sure you and kallisti were wrong too, but he was more wrong. < 1325086099 662149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I pretty much agree with what you said, I just did not word it correctly. < 1325086104 758224 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I said that I barely knew what I was talking about, but I knew he was wrong. < 1325086137 180992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also in the process of thinking about it I changed my mind a few times. < 1325086138 311244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, you were wrong, you just aren't right enough to see how your wrongness differed from my rightness. < 1325086141 583699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *supreme righteousness. < 1325086151 197422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure. < 1325086155 198631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you'd like to think. < 1325086175 146238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is wrong by default.
< 1325086227 28213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone is wrong as proven by the fact that their languages are imperfect < 1325086245 525972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you are wrong. < 1325086266 370630 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but i used a paradox :-s < 1325086274 432974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO DID I < 1325086275 119688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA < 1325086275 603069 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA < 1325086284 520432 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chokes
< 1325086314 625925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: pls stop being so dumb in logs i've had my fill of dumb for today < 1325086317 501566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just quit the internet < 1325086328 215529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where. < 1325086351 930087 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: surely I'm not being dumber than everyone else. < 1325086356 105562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's the moment I'm thinking of. < 1325086369 382739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote kallisti: by ordered multiset did you mean: list?????? < 1325086373 181228 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :785) kallisti: by ordered multiset did you mean: list?????? < 1325086382 195622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, it's like you put these unrealistic standards of perfection on me. < 1325086390 901334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUCH A BURDEN. ;_; < 1325086422 113280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: describe to me that ways in which that is not like an ordered multiset. < 1325086423 612188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:10:52: @tell elliott Hey, so I don't think [a] = Maybe (a, [a]) because there's no equivalent to (Just _|_) or (a, Just _|_) or .. < 1325086423 768234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not responding to this < 1325086500 802154 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're really bad at letting me be wrong. < 1325086507 670333 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wrongness is just going to overwhelm you one day. < 1325086514 960590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you failed to explain all of these small wrongnesses < 1325086557 72679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:12:45: newtype T = T A < 1325086557 238451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:12:57: T is not isomorphic to A because there is no equivalent to T _|_ < 1325086562 493391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations this is the stupidest you've ever been < 1325086568 354225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Sum undefined < 1325086569 244211 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sum {getSum = *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1325086570 960929 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I forgot about newtype < 1325086572 917351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing that < 1325086575 63984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: Sum () < 1325086575 779544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sum {getSum = *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1325086575 962650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see below < 1325086609 96446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so I assume you want [a] to be constructed with newtype? < 1325086617 448622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype [a] = Maybe (a, [a]) < 1325086629 716691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not talking to you about this < 1325086665 828607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would make sense with newtype. < 1325086673 47295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they are equivalent < 1325086745 250445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype [a] = Oops (Maybe (a, [a])) < 1325086775 265358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's almost like you want me to be wrong about basic things < 1325086782 180353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong and talking to you almost daily. < 1325086786 990348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about not-basic things. < 1325086792 606331 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i just don't feel obligated to educate you, especially when you insist you're right < 1325086799 503005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /don't/ < 1325086818 421479 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only /sometimes/ < 1325086841 24670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325086842 944591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really do < 1325086843 428491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :always < 1325086868 567483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:58:34: revelling in their savagery and idiocy, actually this never happened, probably what actually happened was genocide or something <-- erm, roman circus. case closed. < 1325086875 859633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan THAT'S NOT FAIR YOU WEREN'T HALF-ASLEEP < 1325086876 20266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325086879 568677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, incomprehensibly just /msg'd me < 1325086896 625150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I apologize. You don't have to respond, or ever talk to me again, but I'm sorry for being a retard. < 1325086896 819133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok < 1325086896 819225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi < 1325086898 764441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this actually just happened < 1325086901 99019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now he's offline??? < 1325086908 241800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh.....,,,,, < 1325086910 824741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wh, < 1325086914 945101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I seriously think if you actually took effort to explain simple basic things I would quickly change my mind about something I'm wrong about it. < 1325086921 718784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w,,,,,,h < 1325086933 843774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you, however, conclude that I'm just going to insist I'm right /regardless of any information presented to me/ < 1325086942 87322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then... nothing is going to change. < 1325086987 823372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you have the mistaken notion that I think I'm infallible. Which is abusrd. < 1325087150 361158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:00:53: sorry, you passed my threshold of "coherent enough to bother trying to decode" <-- never go into teaching, will you? not that i expect you to. < 1325087150 523130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:02:04: i mean, you are refusing to mention the one piece of information kallisti misses, while he is clearly close to grasping at it, and simultaneously you are deriding him. < 1325087150 680151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:03:32: clearly you are not arguing in order to help, but in order to fuel your ego by exaggerating other's faults. heck you basically admitted it above. < 1325087150 680337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:04:17: and not only do you exaggerate other's faults, but you aim your rhetoric in such a way as to trap them further. < 1325087153 471884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:04:33: it's quite annoying to watch. < 1325087155 367046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan I /used/ to just point out the one piece of information kallisti appeared to be missing, the problem is that doing so just makes him argue back about it and generally continue insisting he's right; combined with the fact that I was also incredibly tired at the time it was obviously not a good time to try and get an explanation out of me. also, that "admission" was what we refer to as a "joke". I /did/ point him at material I believed < 1325087155 851838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325087160 451942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : would help him, based on misconceptions I perceived; the fact that I can't think of a way to explain without just having him learn these things from the ground-up may be a flaw, but whatever, it's not like I /offer/ to teach. < 1325087164 436565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdaboooooooooooot < 1325087166 440545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or er < 1325087168 416459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRCCCCCCCCC < 1325087170 471762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan I /did/ point him at material I believed would help him, based on misconceptions I perceived; the fact that I can't think of a way to explain without just having him learn these things from the ground-up may be a flaw, but whatever, it's not like I /offer/ to teach. < 1325087170 956932 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325087257 615471 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is true. you do not offer. Perhaps I shouldn't be so insist. < 1325087260 897808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CRAVE KNOWLEGE. < 1325087268 284848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a knowlege vampire. < 1325087295 880937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am perfectly happy trying to teach, but that's a different thing from trying to explain to somebody why they're wrong < 1325087410 429344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan anyway, I'm not sure why you've taken it upon yourself to repeatedly complain about me semi-passive-aggressively to the exclusion of basically all others except Phantom_Hoover to some degree. even in the face of people behaving much, much worse. < 1325087410 752880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325087433 624476 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what how do I come into it. < 1325087455 617658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:35:11: This is because you are exceptionally stupid and/or gullible. <-- * oerjan briefly ponders repeating the whole rant above to Phantom_Hoover. wait, you are all like this. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1325087463 470956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan complains about you once in a blue moon too. < 1325087479 699563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: from my perspective it makes perfect sense why oerjan would do such a thing. < 1325087487 739172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's somewhat obvious I think. < 1325087578 599643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be understandable if he complained about all negative behaviour in the channel, but focusing almost exclusively on me even when there are people doing much worse is bizarre. < 1325087747 909159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can't think of many regulars who contribute much negative behavior. I suppose I can be quite negative when I'm arguing with you, but otherwise that's the extent of what I contribute to that. < 1325087807 613549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's message to oerjan was not an invitation to analyse things deliberately left vague.
< 1325087835 156819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- I don't see any harm in doing so. < 1325087850 848193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to expect me to respond to such analyses. < 1325087947 982294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, kind of. At least in some insightful way. I don't want any strife to come from it. < 1325087955 932093 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd rather not discuss it, that's fine. < 1325088172 247259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, I will be consciously attempting to be more respectful to everyone in the future, because I think I've forgotten such simple things, and it's overall good for our little community for us to be respectful to each other. < 1325088207 406710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should instead warmonger and dominate. < 1325088243 606029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. I disagree, but in a very disrespectful way. < 1325088244 737520 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :To crush the channels of your enemies beneath your feet and hear the lamentations of their women. < 1325088247 157698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325088249 619130 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :respectful oops. < 1325088256 450654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :FREUDIAN SLIP HA < 1325088263 822522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole dickmunchers. < 1325088337 848379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:57:11: last [1, 2, 3] * [1, 2, 3] < 1325088338 9806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:57:16: Labbekak: no < 1325088338 166373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:57:23: type error. < 1325088340 999504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> last [1, 2, 3] * [1, 2, 3] < 1325088341 807059 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [t]) < 1325088341 968566 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_1123123' at <... < 1325088343 300417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1325088347 974158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on lambdabot, you have instances for everything else < 1325088402 540852 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah an instance to allow 3 * [1,2,3] should be easy. < 1325088749 706627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:10:44: People who don't understand that monads etc. actually have laws you need to satisfy, not just type signatures. < 1325088757 375133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is perfectly legitimate for pure and return to disagree. < 1325088770 193527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not recommended. < 1325088816 30624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but people who don't understand the latter are unlikely to understand anything at all about that sort of thing. < 1325088842 597790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325088858 292587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the words made sense when i thought them?? < 1325088864 836203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:18:53: I think it's literally just read <$> getLine < 1325088864 992691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:19:02: @src readLn < 1325088864 992840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:19:02: readLn = do l <- getLine; r <- readIO l; return r < 1325088864 992942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:19:13: @src readIO < 1325088864 993041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:19:14: Source not found. You speak an infinite deal of nothing < 1325088865 481259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:19:23: yeah same thing I think. < 1325088867 240675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no < 1325088876 811361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :readIO uses fail on parse failure < 1325088881 419781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325088901 979601 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just error though? < 1325088902 302353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:35: I have a bizarre concept of many things < 1325088902 463850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:21:21: Including safety and money < 1325088902 620884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325088916 287097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no... < 1325088924 898554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise do { x:xs <- m; ... } would be uncatchable < 1325088927 625921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325088933 854358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not uncatchable but it'd go via the async exceptions and skldfhsdjkf < 1325088936 474269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dno'tw ant to think about that < 1325088942 483382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src IO fail < 1325088942 810089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail s = failIO s < 1325088945 350565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src failIO < 1325088945 836536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :failIO s = ioError (userError s) < 1325088952 714299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src ioError < 1325088953 199259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. :( < 1325088955 498889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just throw < 1325088957 154177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. IOError < 1325088958 121584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1325088959 785422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325088960 593344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :throwIO < 1325088975 919912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm so error is ana async exception < 1325088987 164196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas throw is not? < 1325088995 605215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I honestly haven't taken much time to learn about Haskell exceptions. < 1325089001 771710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:33:18: neither is (->r) < 1325089002 95443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:33:28: they're types. < 1325089002 252497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:33:29: >_> < 1325089002 252671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:33:33: * kallisti nitpick < 1325089004 231933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: wrong again! < 1325089010 153144 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SEE BELOW < 1325089013 984331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something amazing happens. < 1325089014 629254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(->) is a type constructor < 1325089017 9559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-> r) is invalid syntax < 1325089019 916435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((->) r) is a type constructor < 1325089023 425105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((->) a b) is a type < 1325089025 159055 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: something amazing happens later < 1325089025 905940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :read < 1325089048 449937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:34:59: iirc ((->) r) is (-> r) iirc < 1325089048 605974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:34:59: oops < 1325089051 758695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no monqy no.............. < 1325089056 776793 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm right and at least 3 other people are wrong < 1325089059 361492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALMOST CONCURRENTLY < 1325089063 277682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazing. < 1325089085 828772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:35:28: Of course, lambdabot does its insane functions are numbers thing < 1325089097 507008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: would you feel awkward again if i pointed out that those instances are due to Conal Elliott < 1325089100 818292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when hsftp < 1325089131 980519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only are functions numbers but numbers are functions. < 1325089141 610405 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3 4 < 1325089142 418805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1325089220 745731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:52:15: is friendship a monad < 1325089220 904238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:52:24: no you can escape friendship. < 1325089221 235306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1325089225 462109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the martix of soolidityi < 1325089246 473539 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you note the part where I corrected myself and PH and monqy continued to be wrong for like whole seconds < 1325089249 906467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you note how amazing it was? < 1325089298 549751 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12:52:24: no you can escape friendship. < 1325089302 951403 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can escape Identity. < 1325089310 275657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just garden-variety wrongness, as opposed to your hanging gardens of babylon wrongness >:) < 1325089331 950625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HE TRIED TO ESCAPE HIS IDENTITY... BUT CAN HE ESCAPE... FROM HIMSELF < 1325089334 89318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MONAD.RUNNER < 1325089336 188140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS SUMMER < 1325089354 718633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Would YOU dare to extract?" < 1325089377 858169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :comonad jokes are not allowed < 1325089398 804941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:48:18: The Times Person of the Year 2011... died in 2010 < 1325089400 450211 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg sir elliott colloinkgravisom of hexham < 1325089407 719008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, it's one of those sodijosdjiosdjiojoijiojoijsdfiosdjoisdjoisdjo multiple people < 1325089408 365387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ones < 1325089409 572279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what < 1325089410 740895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1325089412 555628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi quintopia < 1325089413 849152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of < 1325089417 136158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wherever thefuck you live < 1325089426 722246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Georgia apparently < 1325089432 170460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE TWO GEORGIANS < 1325089438 510803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I'm done logreading apart from the parts where the argument about action. < 1325089447 509727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: get in the same city/town and you can start a third clique < 1325089448 175986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good idea < 1325089478 884273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes all of the brilliant esoteric programmers come from Jasper, GA. < 1325089486 230446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: indeed < 1325089531 905979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should have like < 1325089535 625462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hexham-helsinki diplomacy meetup < 1325089540 829999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you can be an honorary hexhite for the duration < 1325089548 424683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be < 1325089553 477842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful crossnation friendship :') < 1325089554 447918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also I really don't think my wrongness is all that remarkable, it just happens often because I'm talk a lot even when I don't know what I'm talking about. < 1325089561 566782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is my secret plan to ensure that someone corrects me. < 1325089564 840523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's brilliant. < 1325089588 108909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1325089608 855833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (It's OK we'd have Hexham become an honorary Scottish town so that it wouldn't make you a pansy.) < 1325089630 282747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK first decision, do we hold it in Hexham or Helsinki. < 1325089632 908829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait. < 1325089639 36702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sad ending spoiler: all Europeans are pansies) < 1325089644 678860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Find out what the exact midpoint of the shortest path between Hexham and Helsinki is, please. < 1325089659 10695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's in sweden < 1325089660 506230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that might end up in the ocean somewhere. < 1325089665 319550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't think geography works that way. < 1325089671 892463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: We could have it on a ship. < 1325089675 762311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we invade sweden < 1325089697 698511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we can leave those questions for the risk game (actually I don't think Sweden is a country in risk) < 1325089724 138591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I forgot to mention < 1325089736 810747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the honoronororary American ambassador. < 1325089748 201688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think it's actually in Denmark? < 1325089759 843430 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we invade Sweden anyway. < 1325089763 517805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that would be convenient. < 1325089764 688746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If I give you the latitude and longitude of Hexham and Helsinki can you do the hard division part. < 1325089785 434797 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: since that's like the place that's not ocean. < 1325089790 605037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :between those landmasses. < 1325089793 54875 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if you can just divide. < 1325089801 822899 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I'm sure you can't just divide. < 1325089804 846176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well um however you find the midpoint of a line I'M NOT A SCIENTIST!!! < 1325089816 728907 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're finding the midpoint of a great circle. < 1325089823 709519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325089849 409854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: UM JUST PRETEND THE WORLD IS FLAT? < 1325089862 586189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :USE DYMAXION < 1325089872 367587 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That would be a fairly good approximation, actually.) < 1325089873 541317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?q=helsinki&hl=en&ll=66.018018,26.894531&spn=45.088568,173.144531&sll=58.378679,9.755859&sspn=13.524544,43.286133&vpsrc=6&hnear=Helsinki,+Finland&t=h&z=3 < 1325089874 227739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hexham,+UK&hl=en&sll=66.018018,26.894531&sspn=45.088568,173.144531&vpsrc=0&hnear=Hexham,+Northumberland,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=13 < 1325089886 23050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I don't know which part is the latitude and longitude there. < 1325089889 148741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be ll or sll. < 1325089893 191904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Hexham only has the sll one. < 1325089902 521563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1325089904 703549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has coordinates. < 1325089929 171019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham: Coordinates: 54.971°N 2.101°W < 1325089930 988395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helsinki: Coordinates: 60°10′15″N 024°56′15″E < 1325089934 383549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Go forth and calculamate. < 1325089956 947072 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough spherical geometry. < 1325089989 142100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: TRY PLEASE!!! < 1325089990 474568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spoiler: I bet it's in the ocean) < 1325089998 136946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: At least just pretend the world is flat and calculate it like that?? COME ON < 1325090002 371675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you must, ask oerjan < 1325090004 151423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay when I'm rich guys you can borrow my chisip < 1325090048 922852 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you gave me one set of coördinates in decimal and the other in minutes and seconds you idiot. < 1325090058 305289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Those are the ones in the Wikipedia article. < 1325090063 888716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Can't you conver them yourself? < 1325090066 422906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert < 1325090069 950341 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink < 1325090074 677459 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am too lazy? < 1325090076 983747 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1 \ at frink.parser.Frink.parseArguments(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.main(frink) < 1325090083 170518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Helsinki: 60.170833, 24.9375 < 1325090084 624512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAPPY NOW? < 1325090118 288797 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (54.971+60.171)/2 < 1325090119 299321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 57.571 < 1325090138 513817 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (2.101+24.938)/2 < 1325090139 324843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 13.519499999999999 < 1325090145 68701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YOU LACK THE COMMITMENT OF A REAL SCIENTIST. < 1325090150 443896 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea where that actually is. < 1325090174 557707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=57.570833,13.518889&spn=0.01,0.01&t=m&q=57.570833,13.518889 < 1325090177 309091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWEDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN < 1325090207 941915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's assuming the world is flat, right? < 1325090228 46145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And assuming a particular projection. < 1325090245 892105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Which one. < 1325090247 388449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tranverse mercator is what people use for coordinates or something right? < 1325090248 421606 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's close enough that I doubt the geodesic one will be outside Sweden. < 1325090249 766367 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1325090265 283914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(theta,phi) → (theta,phi). < 1325090266 255333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/MercTranSph.png < 1325090269 49520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god this is amazing < 1325090293 948219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equirectangular_projection? < 1325090297 427208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe not. < 1325090348 254483 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1325090354 429148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1325090384 747779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Are you sure the world isn't round enough to put it in Denmark. < 1325090395 796225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyconic_projection Worst map projection. < 1325090402 188888 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the distortion might be enough to move it that far, actually. < 1325090430 433201 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if there are any projections which map geodesics to straight lines. < 1325090451 460371 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnomonic_projection < 1325090452 269115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1325090453 399999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geomidpoint.com/ < 1325090457 122199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just use this? < 1325090472 794868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I think latitude and longitude is actually not projected to anything. < 1325090479 343567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1325090482 580452 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait, that won't preserve distances. < 1325090492 802787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Er. < 1325090494 138236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but we don't know the algorithm! < 1325090495 631232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your calculations are wrong. < 1325090503 262429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: One of those Hexham coordinates is in the sea. < 1325090518 630680 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, centre of minimum distance should be it. < 1325090520 249483 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1325090521 381797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed, the midpoint is in Sweden. < 1325090530 522876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Input the coordinates into http://www.geomidpoint.com/; observe matrix of aquidity. < 1325090535 91326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets the numbers from Google instead.
< 1325090592 179649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's °W for those coörds, not °E. < 1325090595 115946 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change the sign. < 1325090599 269954 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325090599 754626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325090611 371185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325090620 778146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now the midpoint is in the sea. < 1325090643 157834 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering unifying my amateurish interests in programming and genealogy < 1325090645 677522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skagerrak < 1325090647 170972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now then, is that in Swedish waters? < 1325090648 504396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing, in particular. < 1325090659 839677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: are you going to calculate who your ancestors are? < 1325090660 649665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name is Dutch. < 1325090666 920760 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is not. < 1325090682 278963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oslo_from_holmenkollen.jpg ooh < 1325090693 355638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Both names Skagerrak and Kattegat are commonly held to be of Dutch origin. Skagerrak means in Dutch approximately 'Skagen Channel'. The Danish town of Skagen (The Skaw) lies at the northern tip of the Danish mainland. Rak means 'straight waterway' (compare the Damrak in Amsterdam); it is cognate to 'reach'.[1][2] The ultimate source of this syllable is the Proto-Indo-European root *reg-, 'straight'. The modern Norwegian word rak means 'straight' < 1325090693 512365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. There is no evidence to suggest a connection to the modern Danish word rak (meaning rabble or riff-raff)." < 1325090695 172416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SORT OF DUTCH < 1325090700 24656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, not in Swedish waters. < 1325090701 480134 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, no, there's a book about that. < 1325090708 68771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie WE WOULD LIKE TO CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Skagerrak-2005-IV-13_ubt.jpeg < 1325090708 393287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325090708 555052 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, Well, my dad's mum's side < 1325090710 691587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Deewiant WE WOULD LIKE TO CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Skagerrak-2005-IV-13_ubt.jpeg < 1325090711 175856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325090715 462897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Phantom_Hoover WE WOULD LIKE TO CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Skagerrak-2005-IV-13_ubt.jpeg < 1325090715 786773 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325090719 236109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Ngevd WE WOULD LIKE TO CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Skagerrak-2005-IV-13_ubt.jpeg < 1325090719 650187 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325090721 269024 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325090721 631592 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 10s ago: WE WOULD LIKE TO CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Skagerrak-2005-IV-13_ubt.jpeg < 1325090721 788805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kallisti WE WOULD LIKE TO CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Skagerrak-2005-IV-13_ubt.jpeg < 1325090722 118131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325090770 692576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm sorry but the United States ambassador respectfully declines on the grounds that it does not benefit the interests of the American people. < 1325090771 178410 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325090780 929632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK wait. < 1325090787 22954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Where are you again? < 1325090791 296650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the United States < 1325090792 630787 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1325090792 792160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 1m 13s ago: WE WOULD LIKE TO CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Skagerrak-2005-IV-13_ubt.jpeg < 1325090799 60775 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Jasper, Georgia. < 1325090799 546721 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325090806 825945 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that looks like any other bit of woodland. < 1325090808 320292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: NO!! MY SECRET LOCATION < 1325090860 914542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: The three-way midpoint is... in the sea. < 1325090867 543268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near Iceland and Greenland. Well, "near". < 1325090885 192077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try adding more data points??? < 1325090885 353459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow this is shocking < 1325090888 273431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would never considered < 1325090889 912393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the midpoint < 1325090890 397954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Where in Edinburgh do you live. < 1325090905 332789 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :between some points in Great Britain, Finland, and the eastern united states < 1325090905 656442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahaha nice one. < 1325090912 1354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess Edinburgh is small enough to just use the whole thing. < 1325090919 477370 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be in some massive ocean between all of those things. < 1325090933 160055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's still below Iceland. < 1325090958 325753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't oerjan in Norway? invite him? < 1325090968 345718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1325090985 480182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes do that. < 1325091036 179017 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325091041 370460 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2470#comic < 1325091049 100388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRACTALS /= RECURSION YOU TWAT < 1325091070 648964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hahahahaha < 1325091091 19199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha? < 1325091113 129314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: solution: stop reading shitty webcomics < 1325091135 936871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, they redesigned bbc.co.uk. < 1325091141 473330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Excuse me SMBC is objectively good. < 1325091143 134836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again?? < 1325091150 913563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also isn't the mandelbrot set defined recursively? < 1325091161 28809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOO THEY'VE MADE A TV SERIES OUT OF GREAT EXPECTATIONS??? < 1325091163 47753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP IT BBC < 1325091168 813932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no. < 1325091175 521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fractals are recursive, therefore recursive things are fractals!" < 1325091175 485127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I... just the homepage. < 1325091178 775759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's defined by iterating a function < 1325091182 338324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... similar. < 1325091239 229634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src iterate < 1325091239 553153 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate f x = x : iterate f (f x) < 1325091240 563719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEE? < 1325091246 470268 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The relative self-similarity is the recursion. < 1325091275 23342 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ("Recursion works because " ++) < 1325091276 733171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Recursion works because Recursion works because Recursion works because Re... < 1325091317 784882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calculation method: < 1325091317 941710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midpoint (Center of gravity) < 1325091317 941911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Center of minimum distance < 1325091317 942018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Average latitude/longitude < 1325091321 745750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, why didn't I choose the second one. < 1325091325 183739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet that will solve everything. < 1325091337 115079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it will < 1325091340 191335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already did. < 1325091343 105284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless minimum distance stops being great circles. < 1325091343 958360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, now it's in a different place in that same sea. < 1325091346 259860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will add Jasper again. < 1325091349 654807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jaspersprite, GA. < 1325091353 88446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325091353 412202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325091359 963008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AHA < 1325091360 124344 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Vorpal included? < 1325091363 473419 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waitwaitwait, centre of minimum distance and centroid are the same for 2 points. < 1325091367 539684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... < 1325091369 318641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now in Edinburgh. < 1325091375 324886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, no, because that would pull the point towards Sweden. < 1325091376 657967 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are < 1325091378 771236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you serious < 1325091379 94880 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Hexham, Helsinki, Jasper and Edinburgh. < 1325091379 903931 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :best < 1325091381 36886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1325091396 697822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lat: 54.971 Long: -2.101 < 1325091398 800883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lat: 60.171 Long: 24.938 < 1325091399 447863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lat: 34.468 Long: -84.429 < 1325091401 554382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lat: 55.953 Long: -3.188 < 1325091404 20327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Try it yourself with those. < 1325091406 469736 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, double-weitht Hexham < 1325091410 110702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it okay if I don't show up even though my location is used in the definition? < 1325091421 712934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1325091431 330609 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you link me again. < 1325091455 322660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.geomidpoint.com/ < 1325091489 368544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geomidpoint.com/meet/ ;; this one filters the search to places with, e.g. land :P < 1325091520 697016 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I use those s? < 1325091532 26500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Copy in the latitude and longitude in the separate fields. :p < 1325091535 586493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard and mouse < 1325091535 949761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In lat & long mode.) < 1325091542 660956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww elliott beat me to my awesome clever joke. < 1325091555 501960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except instead of a clever joke < 1325091561 488517 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :he provided useful information < 1325091708 813775 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I double-weighted Hexham and Triple-wieghted Helsinki, and got... somewhere off the coast of Berwick < 1325091777 345147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEERWIIIIIIICK < 1325091781 292818 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added ais523 and got... Hexham < 1325091815 313230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSSSSS < 1325091820 876005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WE MEET IN HEXHAM < 1325091842 500076 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By Average Lat/Long we get somewhere in the Yorkshire Dales < 1325091848 699669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise that centre of minimum distance will result in one of the points a large fraction of the time. < 1325091892 356900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, *that's* what it means. < 1325091898 704617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it meant the midpoint between the shortest line between the two. < 1325091948 801990 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I can confirm that if one point is within the convex hull of all the others it'll be the centre. < 1325091950 904375 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added Gregor and got somewhere about 5 miles North of Hexham < 1325091965 923227 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, we can meet in the Barrasford Arms. They do nice food < 1325091978 415675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still using centre or switched to centroid? < 1325092025 6746 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the degeneracy only occurs for 4 points. < 1325092046 834486 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, scratch that. < 1325092143 294212 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we include itidus21 we could get some interesting results < 1325092207 140839 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a serious UK meet-up, I would suggest Newcastle < 1325092232 955473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Newcastle? < 1325092250 365246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you don't turn up and don't see me, thus solving three problems at once < 1325092251 660511 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Newcastle by association with the other Newcastle. < 1325092272 244326 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1325092272 568841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1325092280 347835 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Which/ other Newcastle? < 1325092329 678338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one in Ireland. < 1325092338 754470 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, /that/ Newcastle. < 1325092357 860163 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of the Newcastle where 22 years ago AN EARTHQUAKE STRUCK KILLING 13 < 1325093083 192135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :120 over 6.5 :( < 1325093256 23861 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325093312 796338 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've met someone who's met someone who was in a movie with someone who was in a movie with Kevin Bacon < 1325093340 753435 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also two handshakes away from Tony Blair < 1325093435 227391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And two cards short of a full deck. < 1325093435 714072 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325093444 128455 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325093465 330741 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "maybe" "no" "yes" < 1325093466 18251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t2 -> t' < 1325093466 175580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1325093489 466678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were you trying to achieve there? < 1325093494 277069 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1325093502 86347 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in J thats a list < 1325093513 868488 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell isn't J < 1325093519 126664 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1325093521 996279 :Labbekak!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1325093523 452877 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ["maybe", "no", "yes"] < 1325093524 302309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["maybe","no","yes"] < 1325093536 918748 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now /that's/ a list < 1325093538 860461 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking Haskell would return the last string < 1325093567 811186 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1, 2, 3] + [4, 5, 6] < 1325093568 296567 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Haskell thinks you're trying to use a string as a function < 1325093568 459139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [t]) < 1325093568 615518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `e_1123456' at <... < 1325093581 48461 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to add two lists together? < 1325093628 588474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak_: zipWith (+) < 1325093658 28963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes J too
< 1325093658 352980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak_: if you write a language expecting it to work like another language. Well, I can't help you. :( < 1325093674 662444 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325093684 108867 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+) <$> [1,2,3] <> [4,5,6] < 1325093684 917564 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't really expect it work : < 1325093685 78612 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ.Doc' < 1325093685 253063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : agains... < 1325093690 630443 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trying out < 1325093696 693778 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> zipWith (+) [1,2,3] [3,2,1] < 1325093697 17558 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+) <$> [1,2,3] <*> [4,5,6] < 1325093697 502419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,4,4] < 1325093697 988632 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,6,7,6,7,8,7,8,9] < 1325093705 912483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325093709 571075 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1325093710 978595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you want ZipList < 1325093724 989580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> runZipList $ (+) <$> ZipList [1,2,3] <*> ZipList [4,5,6] < 1325093725 799507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `runZipList' < 1325093726 122888 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would depend on what I am wanting to achieve < 1325093730 667895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle ZipList a -> a < 1325093731 154629 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Applicative getZipList :: ZipList a -> [a] < 1325093731 311026 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1325093731 467799 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1325093735 200305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> getZipList $ (+) <$> ZipList [1,2,3] <*> ZipList [4,5,6] < 1325093736 171735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [5,7,9] < 1325093819 579169 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [5,7,9] == [5,6,7,6,7,8,7,8,9] < 1325093820 548571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1325093824 706142 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEE!? < 1325093860 77255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not exactly understanding your gracious invitation. < 1325093888 912225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except now that I look at the context it seems midpointy or somesuch. < 1325093913 926145 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :map (product 1..) [1..5] < 1325093924 32202 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (product 1..) [1..5] < 1325093924 517599 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `..' < 1325093934 988641 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (product . (1..)) [1..5] < 1325093935 798816 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `..' < 1325093939 769656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So are you coming??? It's the Hexham-Helsinki Friendship Meetup. < 1325093964 516407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It looks kinda desolate. < 1325094005 728899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hexinki-Helsham Meetup. < 1325094007 282534 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromTo 1 5 < 1325094007 850116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `fromTo' < 1325094018 952097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There'll be a ship. < 1325094021 863288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we'll go to Oslo. < 1325094023 848184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak_: enumFromTo < 1325094024 10206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..5] < 1325094024 979869 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5] < 1325094028 830806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1325094031 99213 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> enumFromTo 1 5 < 1325094031 623676 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5] < 1325094048 474984 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (product . (enumFromTo 1)) [1..5] < 1325094049 810895 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,6,24,120] < 1325094065 267613 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :currying ..? < 1325094068 705515 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1..) < 1325094069 353359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `..' < 1325094079 561765 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is named after Mr. Curry himself < 1325094095 717268 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1..) 5 < 1325094096 363387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `..' < 1325094107 842782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \x -> [1..x] < 1325094108 174418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :enumFromTo 1 < 1325094110 116272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1325094116 841538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..] -- :p < 1325094117 892143 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1325094131 450356 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 ([1..]) < 1325094131 610984 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaa < 1325094132 427055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5] < 1325094136 59668 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :careful man < 1325094147 278083 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak_, infinite lists a all over the place in Haskell < 1325094156 830328 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1325094158 932848 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know just kidding < 1325094172 674014 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive been reading http://learnyouahaskell.com abit < 1325094276 643872 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will go now < 1325094282 685153 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My work here is done < 1325094289 94771 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: fungot, can you here me? < 1325094289 904052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: okay I am saying good bye. < 1325094296 513560 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late < 1325094302 766173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325094318 217004 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 l8 < 1325094323 436175 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a wizard < 1325094373 90530 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak_: I figure not is a good time to compare you with my totally awesome code http://sprunge.us/hKaK < 1325094380 91083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/not/now/ HAHAHA IRONY < 1325094401 918221 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/compare/some verb that involves forcing you to look at it/ < 1325094417 373913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf I need to actually pay attention when I mash buttons on this big field of buttons. < 1325094422 803723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1325094430 776368 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it looks cool :p < 1325094471 490546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak_: the first one takes an alphabet and generates every palindrome in that alphabet. < 1325094480 725103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one lists all of the possible brainfuck strings. < 1325094515 497461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm thinking about changing it back to the old version because that's a really verbose function.. < 1325094548 622846 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1325094562 204208 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does >>= doe < 1325094565 724928 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do < 1325094573 374771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^^^ < 1325094613 854667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go get something to eat instead of witnesses the can of worms I just opened. < 1325094702 741928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak_: do you know about typeclasses yet? < 1325094748 334849 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325094763 590144 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go learn about those I (or someone else) can better explain >>= < 1325094767 837184 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill read < 1325094780 231611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ty (>>=) < 1325094781 79028 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b < 1325094783 832171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bot already explained it. < 1325094868 754946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Labbekak_: what >>= does depends on the types it's being used with. I'll say that the way it's being used in my program that I linked is equivalent to: < 1325094873 284258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) = concat . map < 1325094877 651334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :on lists < 1325094897 159700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325094909 953457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>=) ls f = concat (map f ls) < 1325094911 272065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1325095183 634285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, in fact, if you replace concat with join, and map with fmap, this is true for every monad) < 1325095190 886315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I digress) < 1325095322 374575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fmap return [1,2,3,4] < 1325095323 344943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m a)) < 1325095323 501509 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M3415154960... < 1325095336 188579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fmap return [1,2,3,4] :: [[Int]] < 1325095336 997420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[1],[2],[3],[4]] < 1325095347 892004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join $ fmap return [1,2,3,4] :: [[Int]] < 1325095348 866855 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Int]) < 1325095349 23064 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal `... < 1325095356 551138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join $ fmap return [1,2,3,4] :: [Int] < 1325095357 521349 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4] < 1325095565 461794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Monads are a way to guarantee the order of operations in a purely functional, lazy language." < 1325095566 957648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdl;opwktp4otb5i -0t4 494ti 4-ti 4-t < 1325095567 119791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :4=-ot < 1325095567 362021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4ot < 1325095568 9416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ot =-o34=t- o34][etl ][ < 1325095568 171249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e4ty < 1325095568 332728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : e4lt] < 1325095570 443699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ldfgl esp[kfghp[ s < 1325095572 415624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghp[kp[ < 1325095574 517036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dkgh okhdjh < 1325095576 576463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopgh < 1325095578 518780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfp[hk dph p]ophk opgk[ fghkopfghkopofgh < 1325095580 338757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUNCH!!! < 1325095668 307779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: lol < 1325095674 434629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is this /published/ somewhere? < 1325095681 132834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we hunt this person down and kill them? < 1325095728 926548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: challenge: make the above a valid program string for an esolang < 1325095734 950189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including the PUNCH!!!) < 1325095735 958417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If we killed people who are wrong, you'd be so dead. < 1325095775 274309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't publish my information to people in the guise of facts. < 1325095789 962154 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a wide audience < 1325095795 670964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to read my expert knowlege. < 1325095839 745411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming that's what that is, you never answered my question) < 1325095862 308395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://labs.scrive.com/2011/12/why-monads/ < 1325095870 130614 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no don't link me... < 1325095895 51197 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think I read this when I was learning about monads. < 1325095900 585134 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I thought it was true for a while. < 1325095906 446858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU SEE WHY WE MUST KILL? < 1325095908 628612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1325095909 922199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011/12 < 1325095915 783816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you learned monads yesterday < 1325095918 248687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325095920 188083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, um... < 1325095921 322636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1325095921 847598 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325095923 826036 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks familiar < 1325095929 82244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading something like this before. < 1325095933 488527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can't remember where I read it and the name of the company, but they designed in a "terrorizer" into their redundant setup. The terrorizer randomly killed processes. Sounds like a good way to know if the system you develop isn't redundant only in the buzz-word checklist." :D < 1325096087 509396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Finally, a monad must possess a join function that takes a ridiculous burrito of burritos and turns them into a regular burrito. Here the obvious join function is to remove the outer tortilla, then unwrap the inner burritos and transfer their fillings into the outer tortilla, and throw away the inner wrappings." < 1325096159 733608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1325096163 937573 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is true because tortillas are indistinguishable. < 1325096165 928040 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you are going to point out that some tortillas have the face of Jesus. But those have been toasted, and so are unsuitable for burrito-making, and do not concern us here. < 1325096169 444543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1325096375 957681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldl1' < 1325096376 443999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. The more you drive -- the dumber you get. < 1325096380 47383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src foldl' < 1325096380 533174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' f a [] = a < 1325096380 689988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' f a (x:xs) = let a' = f a x in a' `seq` foldl' f a' xs < 1325096382 514816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh < 1325096912 37907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325097037 783398 :kallisti!~eris@h54.4.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325097037 940503 :kallisti!~eris@h54.4.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325097037 940663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1325097165 431711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cracked.com/article_19606_8-apps-designed-specifically-modern-douchebags.html < 1325097181 983387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that the author doesn't seem to understand that creepy is open-source.
< 1325097327 157378 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1C6E8.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325097552 614210 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1325097789 261396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The beauty of this app is that it allows one to automate text messages and emails to a girlfriend at programmed intervals with an adjustable "relationship intensity" setting." < 1325097792 503221 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooool < 1325097988 320064 :Labbekak_!d9795522@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.85.34 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1325098085 93594 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "The result of the first gets passed to the second, whose result gets passed to the third. In other words, they happen in order." < 1325098088 166552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this guy < 1325098092 573627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't understand what lazy evaluation means. < 1325098149 883765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no longer on the tablet? < 1325098165 67467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: By the way, I'm 115.935484 times better than you. < 1325098166 198750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed < 1325098189 815437 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1325098196 53878 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the results were funny < 1325098216 737904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, I put it back in its box and slept. < 1325098222 232730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1325098225 208652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://labs.scrive.com/2011/12/why-monads/ < 1325098226 502957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you like < 1325098227 149985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1325098229 897724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a comment < 1325098230 542677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I can't write things like http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8659345/why-is-this-simple-haskell-algorithm-so-slow/8659368#8659368 on a tablet. < 1325098231 28950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :explaining < 1325098235 5091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how he is like < 1325098236 343410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mistaken < 1325098246 914754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Maybe I, like, already did, like, maybe. < 1325098252 320690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, on reddit, maybe. < 1325098252 644604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you were on a tablet? < 1325098263 642747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/ntox2/why_monads_what_i_learned_about_monads_working_in/c3bvde7 < 1325098266 606804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, like, upvote me, like. < 1325098270 2267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. < 1325098274 730464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It was DRUGS. < 1325098281 900515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NO DO IT ON HIS WEBSITE < 1325098287 728186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I like how Vorpal's statements make perfect sense with that interpretation of tablet.) < 1325098321 582956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which interpretation? < 1325098333 52250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also he seems to suggest that the Maybe monad has an inherent ordering. < 1325098336 972312 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides it was physically standing on a clay tablet
< 1325098370 606479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The DRUGS one. < 1325098386 781013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, it does force evaluation of each "statement" before the next one to WHNF (which is just Nothing vs. Just). < 1325098394 24793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the actual values are not forced. < 1325098401 373826 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1325098459 221981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh. Right < 1325098465 409166 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, didn't know that meaning < 1325098467 69518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> is commutative, which doesn't explain sequencing very well. Just 5 >> Nothing is not going to evaluate Just 5 at all. < 1325098475 598203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*commutative for Maybe < 1325098585 9811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: um yes it is < 1325098593 471682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined >> Nothing < 1325098594 281436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1325098623 515140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Nothing >> Just 5 < 1325098624 485938 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1325098702 987717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi < 1325098727 404455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misread Haskellwiki yet again! < 1325098762 773885 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325098768 799304 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325098870 551084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325098914 217829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325099001 157262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: speak < 1325099067 9356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi welcome to america kallisti < 1325099098 528442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti don't want no welcomes :( < 1325099121 72891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles guiltily
< 1325099134 976239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325099163 738030 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-023-067.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325099310 97145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guilty of crimes. < 1325099493 633119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION must have some food first
< 1325099509 151331 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Criminal food < 1325099526 926071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell doop test < 1325099527 410669 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325099528 912248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :doop < 1325099530 693342 :doop!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION test
< 1325099531 216702 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doop: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325099537 248373 :doop!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, weird < 1325099541 47751 :doop!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, ctcps work like that < 1325099543 958687 :doop!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1325099544 282774 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1325099548 890888 :doop!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :colloinkgravisom < 1325100088 975110 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sbeezg is one of the stubbiest articles I have ever seen < 1325100144 732942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, as a manner of some attempt at self-insight as to why i behave this way toward elliott: i have a father who is exceedingly good at twisting any argument in such a way as to make me (and others) feel like they are being fools and not just wrong but guilty for disagreeing with him. therefore i tend to react violently when i perceive similar behavior in others. maybe excessively so. < 1325100155 620556 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cat's Eye languages don't need much of an article, since they're well-specified on the website. < 1325100182 758344 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-088-065-130-024.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325100231 716232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can I just point out that liking Matt Smith is something which you should feel wrong and guilty for. < 1325100253 991033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover -----###
< 1325100258 184174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can. < 1325100293 832113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might hurt more if i had any idea who matt smith is, apart from you mentioning he played the doctor. < 1325100348 436915 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well *you* shouldn't feel wrong and guilty for it; Ngevd should. < 1325100387 163592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1325100461 556669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, I was thinking about Burro and got a little sidetracked < 1325100462 41562 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1325100477 980266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resulting language does look superficially like a BF deriv, though, so I'm not sure if I should own up to creating it < 1325100516 56959 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :msg me the spec? < 1325100535 681172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit closed the wrong window X_X < 1325100569 427968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: haven't written it yet < 1325100605 526408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two esolangs I've created in a week, but I haven't written the spec for either (the other one's a declarative OISC, which I proved computable but it's not completely obvious, and I'm now trying to prove TC) < 1325100626 686065 :colloinkgravisom!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325100630 476869 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one finished, unpublished esolang < 1325100635 698031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325100657 296865 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was my first esolang, before I heard of the wiki < 1325100725 42272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, and relatedly, anyone here know category theory better than I do? (I don't know it very well) < 1325100863 463620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well if you know it _very_ badly... :P < 1325101204 208313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you know it even worse than oerjan and don't want to talk to oerjan, I'M YOUR MAN. < 1325101210 359451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cue Phantom_Hoover. < 1325101234 692551 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325101322 797449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, it all started when I was trying to define a tensor for Burro < 1325101330 517261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I came up with wasn't associative < 1325101335 784237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm tensor < 1325101350 927505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that's a problem, because I can't exactly remember what a tensor is < 1325101362 128426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover said tensor once, ask him. < 1325101365 965912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I tried to make a field, but I decided that an associative * and + would destroy the categorical structure < 1325101423 468224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know a definition of tensor product of modules as a universal object, i guess that's categorical < 1325101450 460929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tensors are a bit like tuples, IIRC < 1325101454 744718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are cartesian products < 1325101461 248158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cpressey is sceptical there is even a ring language < 1325101465 80266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can never remember what the distinction is (there often aren't) < 1325101467 706625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's a ring, again? < 1325101467 868991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://catseye.tc/cpressey/louie.html#Potro < 1325101478 850193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...it defines ring on the page :P < 1325101487 424650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye.tc: ais523 ready < 1325101492 844739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anyway, fields are rings, so if rings are hard... < 1325101512 876504 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not sure if that's a problem, because I can't exactly remember what a tensor is < 1325101522 94833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like vectors except more dimensions? < 1325101554 48537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I was going for completely different + and * < 1325101568 94841 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, how does that work? You can have any number of dimensions for a vector < 1325101582 589886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, it can be a matrix. < 1325101590 149784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, f+g corresponds to function | Left a -> f a | Right b -> g b < 1325101590 310388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah < 1325101600 813194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and f*g responds to function | (a,b) -> (f a, g b) < 1325101603 964299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that distributes nicely < 1325101610 150278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall the word is "rank" < 1325101617 983044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allow various equivalences between types < 1325101619 761609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so what do you use tensors for? < 1325101640 128109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's either and (***) < 1325101657 364539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious catamorphisms for Either and (,) I believe < 1325101660 111809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not at all surprised that they have names < 1325101673 202866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what you have is completely unlike burro, anyway < 1325101677 561509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're going down that route < 1325101680 793188 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and less interesting :p < 1325101690 607217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aha, it's not /that/ completely unlike burro < 1325101694 897685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, stress? < 1325101697 892476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You use them to do physics, from what I've seen. < 1325101699 38301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the next step is to identify all the data types < 1325101709 85383 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stress... energy? < 1325101770 159999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I see < 1325101775 573881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Stress levels of physics students. < 1325101781 852341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strenegy. < 1325101787 392044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like synergy, but stringy. < 1325101826 448631 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :styngergy < 1325101862 114710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (|||) < 1325101862 924645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b d c. (ArrowChoice a) => a b d -> a c d -> a (Either b c) d < 1325101887 347183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's (|||) and (***). < 1325101898 713472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If you were using Haskell, you could represent your language as an arrow. :p < 1325101908 836192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you probably don't want arr. :( < 1325101919 809643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, that's the point, I think < 1325101928 859955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions have to be arrows < 1325101982 777814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not category arrows, haskell Arrows < 1325102009 395995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, I see < 1325102015 757122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same name is used for multiple things, as usual? < 1325102077 153157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the name for the type that has no values? < 1325102081 599812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to (), which has one value) < 1325102104 332904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the haskell naming is a bit unfortunate, especially as category arrows show up in haskell as well < 1325102106 759125 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, impossible? < 1325102107 664762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"void" also has one value < 1325102117 416766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Void < 1325102121 501780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose in an imperative language, "noreturn" would be a good name because that's what it'd mean < 1325102125 880415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah, void is the same type as () < 1325102126 687482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :void doesn't have one value if you mean C < 1325102128 188450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a type < 1325102132 756730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I said Void < 1325102137 143367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1325102143 237971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/void/0.5.5/doc/html/Data-Void.html, it's the standard name < 1325102155 972369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, Haskell is now officially not allowed to name anything < 1325102158 562138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haskell does not permit a type not to have the bottom value, which is all Void has < 1325102166 316947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: other common names are ⊥, 0, ∅ < 1325102189 473654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, those all seem plausible < 1325102225 321249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although calling the type ⊥ is calling a type and a value by the same name < 1325102242 959387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well in Haskell ⊥ is the only inhabitant of Void, so... < 1325102252 965122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who cares? () is calling a type and a value by the same name too < 1325102257 502803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, indeed < 1325102260 64467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both ⊥, just in different contexts < 1325102490 918708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's your 0; and 1 is the type with 1 value (empty tuple) < 1325102602 75589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's my 0 < 1325102618 663939 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean, 0 and 1 for + and *, in terms of tyeps < 1325102619 873882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial and terminal objects, except that's for Set not haskell < 1325102620 34113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*types < 1325102622 499449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the usual definition < 1325102645 716068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1325102661 799416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm trying to remember which is which < 1325102678 945419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't see what you're talking about types for < 1325102686 912700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since your + and * were about functions < 1325102688 854879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not types < 1325102695 159927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the empty set is initial and one-point sets are terminal < 1325102703 918361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you could have just told me that's what you were going for :P + is Either, * is (,), 0 is Void, 1 is () < 1325102707 354910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious laws apply < 1325102715 769339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way you calculate zippers with derivatives < 1325102722 595131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the point is, that there's only one type < 1325102727 122477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I am at least vaguely confused < 1325102754 996464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea's to effectively have types whilst not having them < 1325102756 403915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Ursala < 1325102767 843050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all types can be reinterpreted as each otehr < 1325102768 867613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for haskell the requirement of only one function between types breaks down completely; you always have at least undefined and const undefined as separate elements due to seq < 1325102769 353378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*other < 1325102778 311540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: where does that requirement come from? < 1325102784 678077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that wasn't generally true, or even useful < 1325102802 1084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's the definition of initial/terminal objects: only one morphism out/in < 1325102808 607447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any other object < 1325102813 222933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, I see < 1325102835 280491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the definition was that there were no morphisms in/out < 1325103168 207552 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider the identity. < 1325103240 240964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Court Jobs in Iraq < 1325103245 110876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want one of those? < 1325103254 307434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, WAI is going to depend on a package I helped develop :D < 1325103255 801818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION FAMOUSE
< 1325103264 111786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : for haskell the requirement of only one function between types breaks down completely; you always have at least undefined and const undefined as separate elements due to seq < 1325103275 139743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Phantom_Hoover: EXCUSEUE ME REVEL IN MY FAME??? < 1325103301 22084 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought _|_ made any category theory with Haskell ugly so you just pretend it doesn't exist and continue living happily. < 1325103339 208965 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what's WAI? < 1325103361 714868 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO: what is the package? < 1325103396 492635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/wai < 1325103397 624341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vault < 1325103398 755740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Respectively. < 1325103441 200581 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1325103452 84972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how the github page for WAI doesn't make it at all obvious what it actually does. < 1325103528 598069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a GitHub page, they don't have to. < 1325103572 862956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you saying it isn't useful to tell what it is on the github page? < 1325103600 124299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1325103608 986444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1325103903 660417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/GEB/ < 1325103915 910771 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The very fact that this is a thing annoys me. < 1325103929 230182 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is a thing < 1325103933 544546 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By definition < 1325104096 943556 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1325104109 780700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: help MonadFix instances are so hard to write :( < 1325104118 382426 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godel Escher Bach in general, or discussion of it on Reddit? < 1325104179 662631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325104520 436607 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325104637 350498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t takeMVar < 1325104637 996688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `takeMVar' < 1325104693 60026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude, the subreddit. < 1325104715 474806 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's inevitably going to be run by people who think it's so ~deep~. < 1325105062 841092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325105175 780338 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325106623 38121 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325106866 405076 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325106991 663995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325107007 555190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromIntegral < 1325107008 219323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b < 1325107431 895440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325107556 857796 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325107570 815906 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325107805 8968 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-78-148-2-128.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: EARLY SLEEP < 1325110211 195783 :mathMajor!thomas@96-37-205-152.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325110623 977720 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1325110825 522267 :mathMajor!thomas@96-37-205-152.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325111240 926983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mathmajor a math major < 1325111438 58681 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1325111459 755865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325111672 677296 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325111681 604093 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1325111780 315362 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325112061 190684 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way to use Haskell to create Glulx executables? < 1325112107 618748 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Glulx? < 1325112169 133674 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a virtual machine < 1325112188 495712 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another machine I want to use with Haskell is MMIX < 1325112302 559197 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325112617 481488 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other things I would like to have is C to Glulx, LLVM to Glulx, BASIC to Glulx, and LLVM to MMIX. < 1325112630 170419 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(C to MMIX is already implemented by GNU C compiler) < 1325112704 373952 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best way to represent type-level natural numbers in Haskell is using uninhabited type (called Zero) for zero, and Maybe for successor. What do you think of this? < 1325112800 30004 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join $ Just (Just (Just (Just Nothing))) < 1325112801 323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just (Just (Just Nothing)) < 1325112846 665613 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :join x = if x >= 1 then x-1 else x? < 1325112884 720404 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity = fix Join < 1325112891 544194 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that would do it, but it isn't really what I meant. < 1325112894 98127 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pretty sure I saw something like that somewhere) < 1325112923 696095 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For *values*, Nothing would be zero, Just Nothing is one, and so on. < 1325112935 131036 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325112938 249678 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix Just < 1325112939 221881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = Maybe a < 1325112939 380390 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: a < 1325112939 380590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: Maybe a < 1325112942 662109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1325112943 312162 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1325112982 268975 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you represent type-level natural numbers this way, there is a very easy implementation of an array with a fixed number of elements. It is simply (->) < 1325113035 384680 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is even a monad! < 1325113077 287069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : join x = if x >= 1 then x-1 else x? < 1325113081 246661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt it < 1325113104 41940 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join Nothing < 1325113105 10459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1325113111 103318 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (Just Nothing) < 1325113112 73099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1325113116 931072 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> join (Just (Just Nothing)) < 1325113117 902265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just Nothing < 1325113129 175552 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, Nothing would represent zero in values. < 1325113134 843079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1325113139 998709 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the type-level natural number 5 has values 0 to 4. < 1325113212 89883 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you can't write infinity in your system. Although I guess that's part of the point? < 1325113220 983381 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it's something that exists at type-level < 1325113266 903859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst part of non-strict semantics is that it makes people talk about "infinity" :( < 1325113271 940667 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it is the point; it is supposed to be type-level numbers. < 1325113322 587837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just use the arbitrary number instead < 1325113339 686592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, in my new language, which I've forgotten the name of and will have to rename unless I remember it, there are certain types of loop that look infinite < 1325113351 385018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the implementation /must/ optimise them into finite loops, according to the spec < 1325113361 599568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anarchy? < 1325113368 831613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not that one < 1325113376 671240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one that was inspired by Burro < 1325113402 685622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you know how much more modular BF gets simply by adding "insert tape element" and "delete tape element" commands? < 1325113407 174253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, it's hard to make them reversible < 1325113434 205039 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you just explain the language, rather than giving glimpses of it? < 1325113451 585785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325113460 751053 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glimpsing because I invented it while asleep < 1325113460 907917 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of annoying just to describe some property without any details on why it arises. < 1325113464 834529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so remembering it is awkward < 1325113471 780315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure it's fully specced out yet < 1325113477 249868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can explain the other language, though, the OISC < 1325113504 147528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, each command can be referred to (e.g. 1 for the first command, 2 for the second, 3 for the third, etc) < 1325113521 237776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're not really commands, more like unknowns < 1325113539 157943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you write, say, 2 * 3 + 4 for "the value of the second command times the value of the third command plus the value of the fourth command" < 1325113553 238726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the only form allowed, unknown * unknown + unknown (= unknown, the unknown that represents /this/ command) < 1325113560 293485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, all the interp has to do is solve the inequalities < 1325113569 350110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it goes into an infinite loop if there are no solutions < 1325113572 828850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this last bit makes it TC) < 1325113596 710756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(this last bit makes it computable) < 1325113598 327442 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going into infinite loops doesn't necessarily imply TCness < 1325113610 971933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I know, thus the correction < 1325113935 976867 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Haskell package for the category of walks? < 1325114010 694054 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is arr like a functor from (->) to the other category? < 1325114104 715103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1325114223 678921 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a proper way to say what the laws are for the Arrow class? < 1325114441 978865 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, first second *** &&& should be one class, and arr should be another class which is of two categories. And then provide functions which can be used as default definitions of second and &&& when it is from the (->) category. Would that work or make sense at all? < 1325114551 952944 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make them workable with datatype families so that you are not limited to only categories with the same objects as Haskell < 1325114706 897202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well the problem is that without arr, you can do almost nothing with an Arrow, so you have to replace it somehow < 1325114709 525371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see for example http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~megacz/garrows/ < 1325114784 506210 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325114951 279861 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325115151 167635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nothing about functors mention in there. I do like that idea and would like to see something like -XModalTypes in GHC it might sometimes be useful to do stuff < 1325115494 708557 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325115593 254070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy! < 1325115594 61960 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable040.190-20-96.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1325115617 30618 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr! < 1325115620 59965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if it is possible to use ghci with Haskell programs that require a main function written in C? < 1325115685 374287 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can interact with the nonmain functions presumably < 1325115841 133916 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable040.190-20-96.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1325115970 306220 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325116572 715822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was just saying re: splitting arr out and leaving just first, second, (***) and (&&&) < 1325116582 749408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that doesn't leave a useful typeclass without adding things like garrow does