< 1322697895 133781 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-159-78.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322697896 764521 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-69.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322698590 933909 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322698764 197766 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: updating xchat-wdk < 1322698796 54359 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322699430 964604 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322700114 667590 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The things about Dungeons&Dragons game, is that unlike chess and poker and so on, it is possible to solve situations that are impossible to solve. < 1322700840 256700 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-153-69.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322701162 420069 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-69.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322701364 555040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/barrier-monad < 1322701680 695230 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322701877 877069 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322702100 224366 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1322702643 363056 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1322702645 818375 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory PART :#esoteric < 1322702797 30198 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322702807 312407 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322705329 410484 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322705692 211653 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322705702 362848 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-69.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322705705 44291 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322706193 996984 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322706307 803514 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322706415 243951 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322706430 256150 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 NICK :alloca_i32 < 1322706697 440114 :alloca_i32!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 NICK :itidus21 < 1322707008 458611 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322708838 671983 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log situation < 1322708843 971270 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-11-15.txt:18:29:06: (I'm aware of the US phone situation) < 1322710936 737098 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322712632 966626 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented the D&D feat "Favored Mercy"; you have to select a creature type same as the ranger's favored enemy list and then there are various bonuses and restrictions that apply. < 1322712819 655152 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Science Made Stupid: How to Discomprehend the World Around Us" by Tom Weller < 1322712866 518265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cvltvre Made Stvpid: A Misguided Tour of Illiterature, Fine & Dandy Arts, & the Subhumanities" by Tom Weller < 1322713095 420417 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322714267 7203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1322714285 199469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone no of a google API where I can grab timezone info? < 1322714293 922176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent to the "time in " searched < 1322714296 210026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*searches < 1322714407 429964 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1322715596 269854 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, update < 1322715607 960974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oZOMG < 1322715627 112463 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: tzinfo? < 1322715717 597558 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: can I ask tzinfo "time in anywhere, USA" and it will tell me the time? < 1322715784 187212 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, zoneinfo < 1322715785 869101 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. < 1322715794 213176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, possibly. < 1322715812 350227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it would work with small town names though < 1322715822 807634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just... do google searches and regex the time. :P < 1322715833 70844 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd probably need a map for *that*. < 1322715848 709371 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's an IRC bot so dependence on a network connection isn't a problem) < 1322715867 705685 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's bound to screw up: town name is ambiguous. :) < 1322715885 681858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine. < 1322715896 951042 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with state I *think* it might not be? < 1322715905 198449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a reasonable person would provide a town, state combo < 1322715923 48296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a town, whateverelseyourcountrycallsthisshit, country < 1322716025 679122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow... boiling peanuts is rather time consuming. < 1322716031 563299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose to boil them for like 24 hours. < 1322716152 447342 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, well, Google doesn't really make this easy. < 1322716164 645509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there XML api is better for this. < 1322716534 950656 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the sidereal time? < 1322716649 678577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes it's 04:18 LST here < 1322716656 958977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322718770 672157 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a welsh town? < 1322718790 112461 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322718799 697348 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whateverelseyourcountrycallsthisshit < 1322718849 888824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no town is a whateverelseyourcountrycallsthisshit town. < 1322718855 707576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1322718909 613282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been boiling peanuts for over an hour now.
< 1322718926 393949 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then there is a town named Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch < 1322718973 237507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look that's an actual thing. < 1322719009 80275 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Toponymy is the scientific study of place names (toponyms), their origins, meanings, use and typology. A toponymist is one who studies toponymy. < 1322719077 892531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: The apple is the pomaceous fruit of the apple tree, species Malus domestica in the rose family (Rosaceae). It is one of the most widely cultivated tree fruits, and the most widely known of the many members of genus Malus that are used by humans. Apple grow on small, deciduous trees that blossom in the spring and produce fruit in the fall. < 1322719082 981647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322719159 748696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, these peanuts are still kind of crunchy. < 1322719166 805302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe another hour? :P < 1322719353 904085 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A seminal experiment by Karen Wynn in 1992 involving Mickey Mouse dolls manipulated behind a screen demonstrated that five-month-old infants expect 1 + 1 to be 2, and they are comparatively surprised when a physical situation seems to imply that 1 + 1 is either 1 or 3. < 1322719365 81538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322719386 832081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 50 < 1322719390 108174 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :serate erilinst squcefingrata nridi sche dk feculaza le pres elatardia kan za ar sau rempanissidaroparinsilh tovigisallassa toncippilluce riedaiilloccau tfinan rous affiens feaatherroellyte rumqh sed em jelendcclocwted nut va acistophoroculvaliamangtola disses climan coo ebyted wity baniff hinosele proley widuchissirs forraseek oliterskiitcligitussies kr rapeosendon co pos lornfiernsident unalragewelsiegaus ze beffuringlatismen natschic bareng < 1322719402 696303 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after being taught the meanings of the Arabic numerals 0 through 4, one chimpanzee was able to compute the sum of two numerals without further training < 1322719412 642119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :feaatherroellyte < 1322719668 460573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: O, you do know the sidereal time. Do you know the moon declination? < 1322719791 592705 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322719904 849062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nope < 1322719924 509898 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I actually just googled for the former. :P < 1322719929 546629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I now know what it means. < 1322719937 403295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moon declination is -8 degrees 18 minutes < 1322719945 602686 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sideral time is the right ascension of the zenith. < 1322719961 130612 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322719970 747525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :2h33m here < 1322719987 177494 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322720071 551500 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second that looked like leetspeak.. < 1322720081 844165 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some weird way to say "same here" < 1322720100 725193 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I meant 2 hour 33 minutes < 1322720106 737026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know. < 1322720248 195282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awwww yeah boiled peanut time. < 1322720251 978466 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have never had boiled peanuts < 1322720255 492348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly recommend that you do. < 1322720301 152050 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what right ascension and declination are? These are equatorial coordinates; do you know ecliptic coordinates? < 1322720564 297360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm vaguely familiar with what an ecliptic is. < 1322720575 292992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine that ecliptic coordinates are based on the ecliptic plane. < 1322720588 541384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is what it is. < 1322720672 466567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm guessing equatorial coordinates are based on the equator? < 1322720678 424083 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1322720729 62131 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hour angle can be used instead of right ascension. And you can use local hour angle or Greenwich hour angle. < 1322720760 800488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more or less expressing the same thing as right ascension, yes? < 1322720774 807615 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the difference is where the zero will be. < 1322720778 428571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322720802 485351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is hour angle in different units compared to right ascension? < 1322720832 275343 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually they are both given in units of hours, although you can use degrees instead. < 1322720918 172132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so greenwich hour angle and right ascension are equivalently based on the prime meridian. < 1322720951 309658 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right ascension has zero at the vernal equinox. Greenwich hour angle has zero at Greenwich. < 1322720966 159732 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local hour angle is based on your location. < 1322721018 820420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322721051 710954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be useful to know local hour angle if you're looking for celestial bodies in the sky. < 1322721060 248980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any notion of local declination? < 1322721093 451078 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Not as far as I know, but I was thinking about the same thing earlier today; you could have local declination too. < 1322721114 735817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just be less convenient without GPS monitoring of some kind < 1322721127 91735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with local hour angle you could go by your time zone instead of the precise longitude. < 1322721263 518632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :these poorly made boiled peanuts make me want some actual boiled peanuts. < 1322721278 216933 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, but timezones are only approximate. Using your precise longitude is better (you could find it in a city list if you have no GPS, and enter it into the computer, together with your latitude as well) < 1322721302 564254 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course city lists are more accurate than using timezones but still not perfectly accurate because the city is larger than one point. < 1322721324 271236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically took some ripe shelled frozen peanuts and boiled them. you're supposed to take unripe peanuts with shells and boil them forever in salt water like peas. < 1322721343 796493 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, is your barrier monad code up yet >.> < 1322721351 673038 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1322721358 333190 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package is called "barrier-monad" < 1322721381 954503 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1322721387 96988 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no peanuts < 1322721408 250603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if they sell raw unripe peanuts. < 1322721437 873702 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you grow peanuts in your garden? < 1322721439 362303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically you buy boiled peanuts from stands. it's a popular thing in the deep south where peanuts are grown (especially Georgia and South Carolina) < 1322721443 641744 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322721448 90109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: doubt it. < 1322721454 119327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on where you live < 1322721516 391349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically you buy boiled peanuts from stands. it's a popular thing in the deep south where peanuts are grown (especially Georgia and South Carolina)Peanuts grow best in light, sandy loam soil. They require five months of warm weather, and an annual rainfall of 500 to 1,000 mm (20 to 39 in) or the equivalent in irrigation water. < 1322721535 414468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peanuts grow best in light, sandy loam soil. They require five months of warm weather, and an annual rainfall of 500 to 1,000 mm (20 to 39 in) or the equivalent in irrigation water. < 1322721539 415454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322721561 870493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: good luck :P < 1322721717 686038 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recalls his mom grew tomatoes and cucumbers indoors, they needed buckets of water every day
< 1322721755 116142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because you live in a barren icy tundra. < 1322721756 873047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1322721757 869139 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm sure there were tomatoes, i think there were cucumbers. < 1322721763 897191 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: close enough. < 1322721804 966909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure tomatos more or less grow themselves here. < 1322721812 856283 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should point out this was still done in the summer, so they did get sunlight through the big glass door. < 1322721818 589950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parents have a tomato garden and I don't think I've seen them upkeep it very much. < 1322721883 27954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also corn. wow, imagine that! plants that originate from the Americas grow well in the Americas! < 1322721892 508300 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well afair it was mostly the water. < 1322721931 610656 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the americas _are_ big you know, and especially in the north-south direction which temperatures vary along :P < 1322721969 688859 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i vaguely think i read corn originated in the tropics. < 1322721982 163103 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incas or mayas or thereby < 1322722025 553361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but now we have like miles and miles of yellow corn being mass produced in the midwest < 1322722027 509665 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess georgia is nearly tropical, isn't that were you were from < 1322722033 393188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it's "sub-tropical" < 1322722068 107132 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not to mention we've got a lot of climactic changes from geography. < 1322722074 174120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it's really hot in the summer, noticeably cold in the winter, and always humid. < 1322722075 853473 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also guess they've probably bred varieties that need less heat < 1322722088 283330 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: heh < 1322722129 521790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :current humidity: 100% (it just rained a few hours ago :P) < 1322722131 732426 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Such breeding was lost to the mists of time; domesticated corn had already pretty well spread through the Americas. < 1322722147 496711 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my time the one time i was staying in the US was in Seattle, which probably does not fit that description. Boston did when i was there, though. < 1322722158 971216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the midwest is insane. < 1322722165 358899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally miles and miles of corn and soybeans. < 1322722169 199336 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1322722203 602579 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got grazing melding into corn fields... Over the course of several hundred miles. < 1322722220 887016 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: yeah i just recently read that the original english settlers learned to grow corn < 1322722243 224742 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1322722261 514265 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly I know all this stuff about right ascension and ecliptic plane and that stuff due to looking at oerjan's "Agora Nomic's Horoscope" and I didn't know what "Node" is or what all these lines and numbers means, or what "Placidus houses" is; and then I downloaded Astrolog (and Daedalus, the author's other program) and it had a bunch of other features that I didn't understand, < 1322722270 33599 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we learn about that shit in middle school history. :P < 1322722305 464827 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i figure it is part of the thanksgiving lore < 1322722315 49724 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but we don't learn any important history in middle school. < 1322722319 291673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, it is. < 1322722347 680728 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wondered why the sunrise/sunset times in this program are a bit off (I think it is because of refraction), and I figured out how to use it to calculate the date of Chinese New Year, and so on. < 1322722372 726403 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell Thanksgiving is basically "let's eat a bunch of stuff that's native to North America" < 1322722379 616940 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well you definitely should know more than me already after all your experiments < 1322722396 299379 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I wrote this code to try to show off your Barrier monad, sorry if it's horrible and ugly and evil < 1322722396 971872 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/54738 < 1322722464 534975 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think i saw someone mention a monad essentially identical to the Barrier monad under a different name on some haskell forum recently. i've forgotten what the name was, though. < 1322722478 34568 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not completely unknown < 1322722522 40542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: At least it works; I don't know if it is horrible and ugly and evil but it is a simple demonstration (simpler than many things you could do with this library) < 1322722571 678463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sgeo: oh yes that is very analagous to Python coroutines. < 1322722576 692843 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming more could be done though < 1322722584 565899 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i come to think of it, shouldn't there be a way to split the Barrier monad into two transformers, one for each part? < 1322722600 334303 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, can you put yield into a function in Python and call that function and have it work sensibly? < 1322722610 38914 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes. < 1322722616 138994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo sensibly < 1322722617 523898 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I thought of that someone else might have done similar things, anyways that happens a lot in mathematics (and programming in Haskell involves much about mathematics) < 1322722642 745097 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322722752 175641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://pastebin.com/j732vmzF < 1322722777 652206 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also possible to throw exceptions into a coroutine from other code. < 1322722783 930937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :g = generate(10) < 1322722790 709481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :g.throw(SomeException) < 1322722798 333556 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite what I meant < 1322722807 985507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And yes I suppose I also know more about the Astrolog and what all that stuff means since I have used most of its features (except the biorhythms and the interpretation mode used for Agora; I don't care for those), and so on... I configured the file to use different defaults, such as degrees instead of zodiac signs, Campanus instead of Placidus, and so on < 1322722809 414099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean then? < 1322722813 58346 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, can you encapsulate complex yield code and use that in place of the yield keyword? < 1322722821 88602 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make a generator < 1322722859 766591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, calling the function produces the generator, with some plumbing it's possible but it's not implicit. < 1322722860 238702 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322722892 720150 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know how generator functions work in JavaScript. Any function containing "yield" is a generator function, and it returns a Generator object when called (not doing anything yet). When you call the next or send methods of the generator function, it runs until yield, at which point the next or send method returns the value being yield and send(x) will cause the yield to x < 1322722899 794905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my MUD I was actually working on a menu system that maintained a stack of coroutines. when the top coroutine is exhausted it would pop off and go back to the previous one. < 1322722907 76298 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh my nose tip got all scaly from blowing my nose < 1322722920 239891 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite putting on lots of lotion < 1322722921 575688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes that's how it works in Python < 1322722928 374106 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the addition of a throw method that allows you to signal exceptions. < 1322722930 964903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make it yourself without using yield; that is possible too (you simply need to return an object with the correct methods) < 1322722941 964208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: JavaScript generator functions have that too. < 1322722994 752267 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i assume to work properly inside functions, yield needs to encapsulate a continuation < 1322723017 133999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also menu coroutines could do things like manipulate the menu stack or defer to previous menu (without actually being consumed) < 1322723041 235153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but essentially if the courtine yielded a new generate then the system pushed the new generator onto the stack, so it was fairly natural to write nested menu code. < 1322723042 529929 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not a completely arbitrary one < 1322723055 204857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*generator < 1322723112 221337 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty neat, but I never actually finished the MUD codebase < 1322723118 62846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because I was doing pointless stuff like that. < 1322723178 790062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, it would be possible to abstract that sort of nested coroutine system into one coroutine. < 1322723215 746826 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the controller coroutine is the outside interface, and delegates input/output to the coroutines in the stack that it maintains. < 1322723312 850367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can barrier monads do anything like that? < 1322723319 992397 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:29: zzo38: yes it's 04:18 LST here < 1322723323 319923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in there current state. < 1322723327 693438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't doubt the possibility < 1322723359 319609 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently tunes also uses sidereal time. < 1322723362 682541 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Haskell code using the library that I wrote, which is like the Python code example posted, would be like this: generate i = yield i >>= generate . maybe (succ i) id; < 1322723386 498879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Are you sure? < 1322723408 567925 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it was a joke by the fact it was at almost the same minute, and tunes _does_ have a broken clock < 1322723426 31776 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1322723432 163335 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that < 1322723438 513391 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You probably can do something like that in Haskell somehow, using barrier monads, possibly using the BarrierT (the monad transformer for barrier monad) < 1322723453 550827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how does generate work? < 1322723454 746265 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was pasting codu :P < 1322723483 804576 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It is like the Python example code you posted: http://pastebin.com/j732vmzF < 1322723492 472827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but how does it actually work. :P < 1322723507 815795 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is crosstalk actually useful? >.> < 1322723518 923905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh < 1322723520 844686 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm blind < 1322723522 232577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: :P < 1322723524 221790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard < 1322723526 422994 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know but I think you suggested that to me isn' it? < 1322723533 632665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "help what is recursion" < 1322723543 80729 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I'm just wondering if what I suggested might be completely useless < 1322723581 799893 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, I don't know; maybe someone will find a use for it, either for computer programming or for mathematical use. < 1322723594 940001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm thinking an explicit stack is unecessary < 1322723606 447666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... maybe it is? < 1322723614 64945 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:56:49: Toponymy is the scientific study of place names (toponyms), their origins, meanings, use and typology. A toponymist is one who studies toponymy. < 1322723617 556436 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:57:57: itidus21: The apple is the pomaceous fruit of the apple tree, species Malus domestica in the rose family (Rosaceae). It is one of the most widely cultivated tree fruits, and the most widely known of the many members of genus Malus that are used by humans. Apple grow on small, deciduous trees that blossom in the spring and produce fruit in the fall. < 1322723646 115703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe it just be handled with simple recursion? < 1322723647 198108 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the city name Almaty originally means "father of the apple" < 1322723650 662097 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1322723671 249982 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Probably it can be done without an explicit stack; recursion probably works OK < 1322723688 729163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe with >> even < 1322723758 737516 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's apparently the older Alma-Ata form which means that < 1322723797 283160 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaty#Toponymy < 1322723824 947579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f x = yieldSomeStuff >> (if someCondition then (>> f x) else id) barrier2 < 1322723827 32041 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, you can use >> if you don't need the back values. Or whatever other values there are when using BarrierT with other monads too < 1322723913 561520 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Almaty is still related to apples.) < 1322723916 285208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I suppose that is another way, too. < 1322723937 557068 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>> f x)? < 1322723950 152336 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1322723951 179777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, I'm so cool. < 1322723957 690874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONDITIONAL FUNCTIONS DUDE < 1322723959 398603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :way of the future. < 1322723962 18236 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmmm, these peanuts are still kind of crunchy. <-- WHY WOULD SOMEONE WANT NON-CRUNCHY PEANUTS, IT MAKES NO SENSE < 1322723974 419575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because they're boiled and thus soft and salty and delicious. < 1322723988 839560 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm boiled pnuts < 1322723994 384837 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT BUT THEY'RE NOT _CRUNCHY_ SO IT'S ALL MEANINGLESS < 1322724004 300661 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I misread that in the obvious fashion. < 1322724004 597061 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude boiled > roasted < 1322724007 703852 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy murricans < 1322724008 819652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any day. < 1322724021 899054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :roasted is all dry and gross < 1322724025 82363 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you are wrong < 1322724028 248637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :go eat some actual nut < 1322724037 171848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cashew (hahaha get it because it's not an actual nut?) < 1322724043 361417 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek i have unleashed the american hordes < 1322724057 261950 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no just the georgia hordes < 1322724060 496719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: boiled peanuts aren't even really a completely American thing. < 1322724061 734563 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322724078 617715 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably tell a New Yorker to eat some boiled peanuts and they'd be like "wat" < 1322724086 544211 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah dont knock it til youve tried it man < 1322724113 914624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's just common in places where peanuts are grown. mainly in the south. < 1322724119 839073 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :georgi is the peanut state. we get to decide what peanuts are best < 1322724140 794397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we actually don't grow the kind of peanuts that are supposedly best for boiling < 1322724150 655138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valencia is supposed to be better than Runners. we grow Runners. < 1322724191 141068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eating boiled peanuts is kind of like... eating some kind of shellfish < 1322724200 422750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with peanut instead of fish meats. < 1322724201 472183 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont actually know anything about peanuts < 1322724202 237232 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322724205 502350 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lost me there < 1322724211 323489 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Roasted is by far the more common thing in America. < 1322724213 258126 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well it's probably all that crazy mad scientist GWC's fault < 1322724221 939407 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah man < 1322724225 536889 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :gwc is the shit < 1322724246 362894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad peanut scientists... < 1322724252 935099 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peanut butter, fuck yeah. < 1322724258 393663 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd have invented more but he disappeared in his peanut oil powered time machine < 1322724270 654666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: peanut oil is awesome btw < 1322724273 795010 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the best mad food scientist is clearly robert c baker < 1322724332 642632 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: lets ship oerjan some boiled peanuts in a can. i know its not as good as fresh, but maybe it would be enough to sway him? < 1322724341 758140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's a shame that oerjan probably doesn't know the joy of deep-fried chicken in peanut oil. < 1322724344 345942 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sounds like a fowl guy < 1322724345 4455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: per. haps < 1322724373 226748 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill buy the can if youll cover shipping < 1322724380 920857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1322724396 232276 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, oerjan, "deep-fried *" is as American as you can get. < 1322724453 475427 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: also scottish, i hear < 1322724464 286031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they borrowed it from us. :P < 1322724464 676392 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1322724487 127135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you've had chik-fil-a yes? < 1322724538 359903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they're like... common in many US states now. < 1322724574 664541 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people have issues with funding anti-gay organisations, though. < 1322724597 960438 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: I knew they were Christian based but not anti-gay < 1322724600 580405 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you have to think how many things we take for granted were actually invented by someone < 1322724612 922101 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nearly all of them) < 1322724616 747584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: woah dude < 1322724620 840794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had never thought of it that way. < 1322724628 349835 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mind blown.
< 1322724651 85798 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: They're *American* Christian based. The only Christians in America that are in any way loud about it hate gay people so much. (and, of course, make regular trips to the nearest gloryhole) < 1322724689 956252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :looooooool < 1322724700 861719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION consults the yellow pages for the nearest gloryhole.
< 1322724721 478588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googled for: gloryholes near Jasper, GA
< 1322724721 841725 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sic transit gloria mundi < 1322724784 844127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm "glory hole rock shop" in Jasper, GA < 1322724787 437297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite what I wanted. < 1322724796 670162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is a "rock shop" < 1322724817 272285 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes i have had chik-fil-a < 1322724822 423135 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont anymore tho < 1322724842 920690 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of what pikhq said < 1322725037 120580 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i hate their marketing dept forever < 1322725061 169934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322725072 590969 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbef iz sketchy eh? < 1322725102 327948 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck no. mechanically separated chicken is < 1322725646 798198 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sketchy" understates. < 1322725852 577251 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, UPDOOT < 1322726425 616062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else like starcraft2? < 1322726563 628276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322728265 725296 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322728450 511322 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: just post the question to reddit.com/r/doesanybodyelse >:) < 1322729688 711393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle forkIO < 1322729689 259771 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Concurrent forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId < 1322729689 439076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc.Sync forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId < 1322729689 439266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc forkIO :: IO () -> IO ThreadId < 1322729884 923343 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forever . putStrLn $ "Hello, World!" < 1322729885 958114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `b' in the constraint: < 1322729886 137018 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Typeable.Typeable b... < 1322729902 320324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with this? < 1322730011 848407 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t forever . putStrLn < 1322730014 821208 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. String -> IO b < 1322730037 583379 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, it's because of the ambiguous result type < 1322730046 528511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: works fine in ghci though. < 1322730050 945805 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> forever . putStrLn $ "Hello, World!" :: IO () < 1322730052 467775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322730065 218775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ghci assume IO () or something? < 1322730073 298519 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's because ghci doesn't do a typeclass check on b < 1322730075 501606 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1322730096 54898 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't have a Show instance for IO < 1322730096 532766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does lambdabot? < 1322730099 144923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1322730109 346180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaah < 1322730120 568422 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while lambdabot uses Typeable b => Show (IO b) in order to print that thing < 1322730149 436046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322730183 568231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there any standard type that doesn't derive Typeable < 1322730187 745328 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghci just runs the action, and possibly prints the result with the right option set < 1322730191 427137 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically one that lambdabot exposes? < 1322730202 535174 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322730240 788521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much any type can derive typeable < 1322730245 266438 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t typeRef < 1322730246 124940 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `typeRef' < 1322730247 7384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would probably be hard to find. < 1322730268 672661 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: not if it has type arguments of kind not * < 1322730282 137458 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can still write a custom one then < 1322730289 296939 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t typeRep < 1322730289 476116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle a -> Int# < 1322730289 828114 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1322730290 7065 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1322730290 7261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts breakpoint :: a -> a < 1322730290 186081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `typeRep' < 1322730297 283868 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1322730302 683951 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Typeable < 1322730302 864095 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. My brain just exploded < 1322730305 813414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Int -> Int# < 1322730306 119112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (!!) :: [a] -> Int -> a < 1322730306 298203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List (!!) :: [a] -> Int -> a < 1322730306 298387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Sequence index :: Seq a -> Int -> a < 1322730320 905566 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Typeable a => a -> b < 1322730321 935194 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.OldException throwDyn :: Typeable exception => exception -> b < 1322730322 117471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b < 1322730322 117684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Dynamic toDyn :: Typeable a => a -> Dynamic < 1322730372 917193 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: IO (StateT IO Int) < 1322730373 782957 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Control.Monad.Trans.State.Lazy.StateT GHC.Types.IO GHC.Types.Int' is not a... < 1322730387 37307 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1322730392 128156 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: IO (StateT Int IO Int) < 1322730392 926675 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Typeable.Typeable1 < 1322730393 105704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Control.Monad... < 1322730396 135820 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322730400 696919 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well that's one < 1322730412 90250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... StateT? < 1322730422 32658 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k StateT < 1322730422 905747 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :* -> (* -> *) -> * -> * < 1322730438 334863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it just doesn't have an instance? < 1322730445 454725 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you see it has a * -> * argument, so cannot be derived, and nobody presumably bothered to make one < 1322730482 206174 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let me check < 1322730517 505172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1..10] < 1322730518 302906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10] < 1322730520 807012 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah looks like it < 1322730573 989864 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new polymorphic kind extension will probably make it possible to derive any Typeable eventually < 1322730584 133302 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t for < 1322730585 35486 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `for' < 1322730591 339329 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322730598 824880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems strange to call it forM < 1322730600 914191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's no for < 1322730603 416526 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been thinking sometimes that for seems to be missing :P < 1322730622 365931 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would just be flip map, presumably < 1322730627 654861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let for = flip map < 1322730628 981945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322730629 162005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1322730647 454020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> for [1..10] (\x -> show x) < 1322730649 92356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["1","2","3","4","5","6","7","8","9","10"] < 1322730652 511024 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am teh leet Python programmer < 1322730772 997871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t newIORef < 1322730773 890365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `newIORef' < 1322730778 397214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t writeIORef < 1322730779 225273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `writeIORef' < 1322730802 385887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: "no imperative programming allowed" < 1322730830 976740 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can use ST, i think < 1322730836 261804 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t newSTRef < 1322730837 155326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a s. a -> ST s (STRef s a) < 1322730859 278745 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1322731107 162006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runST < 1322731107 998030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (forall s. ST s a) -> a < 1322731359 104038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; get = readSTRef; (*=) r n = modifySTRef r (*n); factorial n = runST $ do { x <- var 1; forM [1..n] (\i -> x *= i ); return (get x) } in factorial 5 < 1322731359 941055 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type is less polymorphic than expected < 1322731360 123159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Quantified type variable... < 1322731366 680626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1322731484 767683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: help < 1322731671 609719 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; get = readSTRef; (*=) r n = modifySTRef r (*n); factorial n = runST $ do { x <- var 1; forM [1..n] (\i -> x *= i ); get x } in factorial 5 < 1322731672 448315 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 120 < 1322731739 434983 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1322731742 301732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t readSTRef < 1322731743 141242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall s a. STRef s a -> ST s a < 1322731744 763312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. :P < 1322731801 225679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; return = readSTRef; (*=) r n = modifySTRef r (*n); factorial n = runST $ do { x <- var 1; forM [1..n] (\i -> x *= i ); returm x } in factorial 5 < 1322731801 986448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `returm' < 1322731806 912549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; return = readSTRef; (*=) r n = modifySTRef r (*n); factorial n = runST $ do { x <- var 1; forM [1..n] (\i -> x *= i ); return x } in factorial 5 < 1322731807 679734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 120 < 1322731820 958987 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the most elegant way to write factorial. < 1322731865 546563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a Python coder writing Haskell, I find that forM [1..n] (x *=) is a tad unreadable < 1322731871 659329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x *= what exactly? < 1322731874 460417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense. < 1322731908 725479 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a corollary to "most elegant way to write factorial", < 1322731910 233483 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let var = newSTRef; return = readSTRef; bestIdEver x = runST $ do { y <- var x; return y } in bestIdEver 42 < 1322731911 72471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 42 < 1322732008 824997 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quite nice. < 1322732044 777626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course a real Haskell programmer never leaves ST < 1322732056 447911 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only (x *= ◌) were the same thing as (x *=), then it'd make sense; x *= the hole. < 1322732062 737262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really we should omit the runST and simply pass in STRefs < 1322732137 418827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually just omit the runST < 1322732150 608663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :passing STRefs would be if you want pass-by-reference < 1322732504 769122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fizzie: would be nice to have a Ref typeclass with the var function < 1322732510 333767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Ref IO IORef where var = newIORef < 1322732538 553076 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think I like the name ref better. < 1322732559 130237 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are some things called Refs and others called Vars? < 1322732582 777543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable implies a syntactical feature < 1322732607 382211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 2 < 1322732626 776936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is the variable. YOu access via the syntax of the programming language, simply by writing its name. < 1322732650 647822 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :An MVar is not any more syntactic than an IORef though. < 1322732655 405375 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's great, except it doesn't explain why Haskell has MVars and TVars < 1322732659 924508 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1322732670 57919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. different people write different code? :P < 1322732677 319424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they're in the report < 1322732678 7543 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MRef" sounds too much like a dog barking? < 1322732721 616860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you're a norseman < 1322732744 719434 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, "arf!" < 1322732772 906098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mref mref mref!" < 1322732889 865488 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone actually uses ST < 1322732966 751093 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how the descriptions of IORef and STRef both use the word "variable" ("A mutable variable in the IO monad", "a mutable variable in state thread") while neither of the descriptions for MVar and TVar do ("mutable location", "Shared memory locations"). < 1322732993 678244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be better if MVar and TVar said "reference" < 1322733351 654393 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1322735520 55875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> x*sin(X^2 + 1)) 5 < 1322735520 897926 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor `X' < 1322735525 14281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> x*sin(x^2 + 1)) 5 < 1322735525 949516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 33.10852456691162 < 1322735543 18224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\x -> x*sin(x^2 + 1)) (x :: Expr) < 1322735543 877077 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * sin (x * x + 1) + x * ((1 * x + x * 1) * cos (x * x + 1)) < 1322735590 471282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only it reduced properly... < 1322735621 462707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x + x == 2*x < 1322735622 366828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322735626 636856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322736042 441808 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x == x < 1322736043 339619 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322736046 219330 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1322736050 41995 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 * x == x < 1322736050 881945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322736071 277983 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0 * x < 1322736072 113754 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 * x < 1322736075 586483 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x * 0 < 1322736076 394944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : x * 0 < 1322736109 60825 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe == should just be undefined < 1322736112 796306 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x > y < 1322736113 736372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1322736119 124119 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x < y < 1322736119 936239 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322736129 815138 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ords of genius. < 1322736216 524446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well it kind of can't make sense unless Expr is demonstrating a particular kind of Num instance. < 1322736243 566034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if all Num instances were fields, you could make a number of reductions that make two Exprs with different textual representations equivalent. < 1322736279 952036 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, didn't think about that < 1322736530 705029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unless you do some pretty complicated symbolic reasoning you're not really going to get an Eq instance that comes anywhere close to basically determine if two arbitrary expressions are equal. < 1322736550 808188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :under the assumption that the Num instance that Expr is representing behaves like real numbers. < 1322736683 523110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322737184 480746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t extract < 1322737185 411399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall source. (Extract source) => (Int, Int) -> source -> source < 1322737192 634083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322737193 161645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..no < 1322737198 558104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (=>=) < 1322737199 464832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `=>=' < 1322737528 952632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1322737564 828278 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322737565 767764 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.189 QUIT :Changing host < 1322737565 948356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322737699 512376 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicateM 3 "<>=" < 1322737700 264184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["<<<","<<>","<<=","<><","<>>","<>=","<=<","<=>","<==","><<","><>","><=",">... < 1322737704 294879 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should have all of those. < 1322737745 506229 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :["<<<","<<>","<<=","<><","<>>","<>=","<=<","<=>","<==","><<","><>","><=",">><",">>>",">>=",">=<",">=>",">==","=<<","=<>","=<=","=><","=>>","=>=","==<","==>","==="] -- that's not such a long list. And I'm sure they can figure out some meanings for everyone. < 1322737761 334275 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example <>< could make some fish swim across the screen. < 1322737991 225682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<=> is compare ala Perl. < 1322738075 125916 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :><> makes the fishes go the other way. < 1322738127 563211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t deriv < 1322738128 383523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (Num a, Num b) => (Dif a -> Dif b) -> a -> b < 1322738134 933449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused as to where this function comes from < 1322738138 942398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it anywhere on the interwebs < 1322738285 861345 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/numbers/2009.8.9/doc/html/Data-Number-Dif.html ? < 1322738572 394906 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://holumbus.fh-wedel.de/hayoo/hayoo.html?query=%28Dif%20a%20-%3E%20Dif%20b%29%20-%3E%20a%20-%3E%20b ) < 1322738968 714197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<= and =<< are from Feather < 1322738988 209693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :retroactive and proactive assignment, respectively < 1322739003 20367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(proactive assignment does nothing right now, but controls when in time a retroactive assignment happens) < 1322739083 857626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> read "1" :: Dif Int < 1322739084 677360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1~~ < 1322739120 167732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> df $ read "1" :: Dif Int < 1322739120 967752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0~~ < 1322739126 682725 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322739135 428635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> df (read "1" :: Dif Int) < 1322739136 180722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0~~ < 1322739138 738751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1322739244 210164 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>, ≫, ⋙; greater-than, much greater-than, very much greater-than; sadly I think that's where they gave up. (Though there is ⫸, the triple nested greater-than.) < 1322739317 168352 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly there would have been more intensifiers to go with. Really very much greater-than, honestly really very much greater-than, I'm not even kidding how much greater-than, etc. < 1322739322 291255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate df (sin (dVar pi :: Dif Expr)) < 1322739323 117054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [sin pi~~,1 * cos pi~~,1 * (1 * negate (sin pi))~~,1 * (1 * (1 * negate (co... < 1322739340 885996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map val $ iterate df (sin (dVar pi :: Dif Expr)) < 1322739341 755285 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [sin pi,1 * cos pi,1 * (1 * negate (sin pi)),1 * (1 * (1 * negate (cos pi))... < 1322739372 778475 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value, first derivative, second derivative, etc < 1322739435 630466 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322739576 456157 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map val $ iterate df (sin (dVar x)) < 1322739577 305765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [sin x,1 * cos x,1 * (1 * negate (sin x)),1 * (1 * (1 * negate (cos x))),1 ... < 1322739784 563507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let y = dVar x in map val $ iterate df (x^3 + x^2 + x + 5) < 1322739785 348786 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif a' < 1322739785 529289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322739798 633781 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be better if it printed [sin x,cos x,negate (sin x),negate (cos x),sin x,cos x,even you,should be,able to,figure it,out by,now,...] < 1322739805 979753 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let loly = dVar x in map val $ iterate df (x^3 + x^2 + x + 5) < 1322739806 749425 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif a' < 1322739807 323480 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322739815 462354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: asshole :P < 1322739823 959797 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I agree. < 1322739828 197443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS PREVIOUSLY < 1322739843 906777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sin x * sin x) + (cos x * cos x) < 1322739844 750863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : sin x * sin x + cos x * cos x < 1322739848 339809 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :About making the bot more of an asshole? Yes, I think it would fit in better here. < 1322739870 580805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv (\a -> (sin a * sin a) + (cos a * cos a)) x < 1322739871 407928 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 * cos x * sin x + sin x * (1 * cos x) + (1 * negate (sin x) * cos x + cos... < 1322739898 639631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let y = dVar x in map val $ iterate df (y^3 + y^2 + y + 5) < 1322739899 542730 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x * x * x + x * x + x + 5,(1 * x + x * 1) * x + x * x * 1 + (1 * x + x * 1... < 1322739906 368477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross/ < 1322739917 214463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let y = dVar x in map val $ iterate df (y^2 + y + 5) < 1322739918 102165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x * x + x + 5,1 * x + x * 1 + 1,1 * 1 + 1 * 1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,... < 1322740140 48338 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :All those are so begging for a Mathematica FullSimplify[]. < 1322740149 652747 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "FoolSimplify", as we tend to call it. < 1322740152 195707 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, tended. < 1322740203 803792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) = dVar x in nDerivs < 1322740204 590744 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `=' < 1322740211 875966 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs < 1322740212 681037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (Num a, Num a1) => (Dif a -> Dif a1) -> a -> Int < 1322740235 786939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) < 1322740236 639382 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> Int < 1322740242 999162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) < 1322740245 433495 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> GHC.Types.Int) < 1322740245 612557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fro... < 1322740250 827845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1322740263 197668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) 5 < 1322740264 723788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322740270 541031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) 0 < 1322740271 992896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322740279 812309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might not be accurate when you pass 0 :P < 1322740299 58992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f x = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) 1 < 1322740300 555944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322740337 54563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0 :: Expr) == 0 < 1322740337 889400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322740369 847124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) in nDerivs (\x -> x^2) < 1322740371 334396 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322740374 165894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1322740380 918548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let nDerivs f = succ . length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) < 1322740381 961080 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322740388 210242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs (^3) < 1322740389 698646 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1322740393 540639 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs sin < 1322740397 247295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322740475 294079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs (const 1) < 1322740476 787045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1322740482 119001 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322740513 888825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate df (const 1 (dVar x)) < 1322740514 771613 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~... < 1322740525 401265 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay. < 1322740539 819164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I want it to count the first 0. < 1322740702 228589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no... < 1322740705 459736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right. < 1322740710 814159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefinee < 1322740711 991109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322740715 933440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unlet < 1322740716 731524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322740717 215052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@halp < 1322740717 397613 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322740729 997236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help undefine < 1322740730 176809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :undefine. Reset evaluator local bindings < 1322740755 649052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let nDerivs f = length . takeWhile (/= 0) . iterate df $ (f (dVar x)) < 1322740756 457432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322740763 333216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs (const 2) < 1322740764 851508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322740766 532303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better. < 1322740774 581514 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs (^2) < 1322740776 29990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1322741700 962406 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let (++) = mappend < 1322741701 487627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :3:0: < 1322741701 667262 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Multiple declarations of `L.++' < 1322741701 667432 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Declared at: .L.hs:97... < 1322741706 12958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (++) < 1322741706 778222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (m -> m -> m) < 1322741706 957627 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use... < 1322741711 636770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (++) < 1322741712 459863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall m. (Monoid m) => m -> m -> m < 1322741726 859119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t nDerivs < 1322741727 677848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => (Dif Expr -> Dif a) -> Int < 1322741859 482765 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322742252 766869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322743212 915337 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322744528 142276 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322744804 896971 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322745132 858075 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322745222 599463 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322745232 483120 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm staying up to solve this http://www.canyoucrackit.co.uk/15b436de1f9107f3778aad525e5d0b20.js my life is interesting < 1322745275 317292 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322745782 220259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322746634 475094 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322746644 73142 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322747091 182090 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1322747295 820249 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1322747307 280501 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you, boily? < 1322747438 61427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322747488 117975 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Phantom_Hoover < 1322747898 993125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322747929 196092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322748511 725100 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once, I was in a hotel, they required keycards for the elevator but I didn't have any so I went to the top floor by stairs and knocked on the door (it is my hotel room, but some other people too, and they had the keycard). And if any hotel has elevator that requires a keycard and then you only go to your floor, then it makes it less secure than one that does not require a keycard < 1322748750 191307 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once, I was in a hotel, booked under the name of "random" < 1322748972 826726 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322749456 919635 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite often the doors in the stairwell that lead to the actual floors also require a keycard. < 1322749573 877903 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I worked at a place where you would get trapped in the stairwell if you forgot your card; the door from the offices to the stairs could be opened with a button from the inside, but the exit door at the bottom required a card always. I have a vague feeling that's against all kinds of emergency exit rules and whatnot. < 1322749614 190908 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally those things are always constructed so that if you forget the key, you can at least exit the building. < 1322749628 592717 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then freeze to death outside, but that's not relevant.) < 1322749666 783139 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the place I was in, a keycard was not required to open the doors in the stairwell. < 1322749743 20851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322750853 891522 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, I am become join spam. < 1322750899 228712 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: Any spammy, useless messages for me? < 1322750962 566800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it december help < 1322750969 96544 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011, we hardly knew ye. < 1322750993 314787 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dungeons of Dredmor just crashed < 1322751078 962272 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it print out "Suddenly, the dungeon collapses" too? < 1322751810 280223 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can I not access this? http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/encouraging_next_generation_hackers_part_1_raspberry_pi_25_computer < 1322752328 982511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: linux? < 1322752334 667843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: and segfault? < 1322752337 141216 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes < 1322752346 678150 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe, what do they look like? < 1322752349 775852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: if so there is a patch to the data files that might help (helped for me). Let me find the link < 1322752416 334584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: http://community.gaslampgames.com/threads/statue-of-inconsequentia-crash.1318/ (for me it happened when changing dungeon level) < 1322752439 35245 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a patch a bit down < 1322752446 833609 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(post #4) < 1322752478 59060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does it print out "Suddenly, the dungeon collapses" too? <-- for me it just plain segfaulted < 1322753019 607296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly, the dungeon segfaults! < 1322753424 26810 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I apparently didn't have the network package installed. < 1322753428 885460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :shows you how much Haskell I've been programming.. < 1322753468 696737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I still get these really weird linker errors from importing Network.Socket < 1322753472 393088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what's up with that. < 1322753784 703567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else find Network.Socket a little cumbersome? < 1322753875 445840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: did it work? < 1322753906 727266 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't find the install directory.. < 1322753968 671818 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1322753977 355961 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322754314 547405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shopping for a Dyson DC25 Ball All-Floors Upright Vacuum Cleaner might not appear like a big deal, however it does require a bit of planning." < 1322754354 442888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha: "Probably you aspire to realize what is certainly my favourite [http://google.com internet search engine]." < 1322754360 62043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spambots spamming Google are back again < 1322754393 435540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, advertising Google) < 1322755427 299819 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322755945 293761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322755984 679029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:22:05: Just noticed my email in my account settings was 0.034064395384923 I asume that was the issue. < 1322755986 792896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: context? < 1322756001 851921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the phpBB gone mad < 1322756008 879097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1322756015 830139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to figure out how that could possibly work
< 1322756023 669377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it changed all the posts into md5 hashes, it apparently changed email addresses into (double-precision, by the look of it) floating point numbers < 1322756045 636644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's unclear what they're md5 hashes /of/, btw; kind-of hard to reverse them) < 1322756048 815899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322756053 314887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try googling them? < 1322756059 499583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked one at random, no results < 1322756062 438829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't google any others < 1322756132 713583 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm < 1322756138 721850 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did I get an email sent to all employees < 1322756150 451020 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322756170 284602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you are an employee < 1322756207 318521 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-192-37.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322756297 899621 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-247-194.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322756307 827245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending an email to all employees would be impressive < 1322756318 620927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost like sending an email to every internet user, just slightly less global < 1322756318 810831 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I pay them. < 1322756336 161649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably sending an email to absolutely everyone would be the easiest way to accomplish an "email-all-employees" requirement < 1322756340 371565 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(them being the university) < 1322756370 953756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be fun to try < 1322756549 494779 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You'd also need to get them all email addresses < 1322756567 166470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's trivial < 1322756570 507927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHA, IN HWN AGAIN < 1322756574 531723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending them their logins would be the hard part < 1322756607 731091 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why not just make an email address for everyone? < 1322756632 129562 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix . (++) $ "hi" < 1322756633 590043 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "hihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi... < 1322756634 252881 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that's what I was implying < 1322756645 420263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, github's language detection is rather imperfect < 1322756650 436737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part being, giving everyone access to their account < 1322756661 149910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just let everyone access every account < 1322756669 245887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef USE_DIRECT3D < 1322756669 435995 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : glClear(GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT); < 1322756669 436107 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1322756673 57177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems so very wrong < 1322756676 459041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: :D < 1322756676 747390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then how is it an account specific to the person? < 1322756686 899280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: awesome, please give more context < 1322756688 296875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nobody would stop calling personal email just because there's a backdoor! < 1322756696 352788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can't. Darwinia source code. < 1322756697 966490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they might claim it's a /bad/ personal email service, though < 1322756703 225294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, not in the code itself < 1322756713 86464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as to why that's written < 1322756729 88932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm guessing that there's some sort of OpenGL/Direct3D wrapper that can call either, and is based on OpenGL function names) < 1322756738 456855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway I gave up getting darwinia to compile... Linux implementation files are way out of date with shared headers (like when there is foo_win.cpp and foo_sdl.cpp) < 1322756747 709887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but as to why that's written <-- don't know yet < 1322756762 54993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I bet AII compiles perfectly on Linux. < 1322756774 967055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: give me the source right now then < 1322756787 428740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nobody can do that; light speed, dude. < 1322756798 795529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well within 10 minutes < 1322756801 8328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't even access Darwinia's code instantly. < 1322756804 799907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fixify f = fix . f; repeat = fixify (:); cycle = fixify (++); forever = fixify (>>) in fixify < 1322756805 552185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (f (a -> a) -> f a) < 1322756805 739539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from... < 1322756809 326511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let fixify f = fix . f; repeat = fixify (:); cycle = fixify (++); forever = fixify (>>) in fixify < 1322756810 163514 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a. (Functor f) => f (a -> a) -> f a < 1322756817 5644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, so if it's bigger than you can download in 10 minutes it doesn't count? < 1322756843 130202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no to the start of downloading. I expect the rest within at most a few days < 1322756850 320096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything more is just silly < 1322756863 601947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I refuse to let my reputation depend on the reliability of your internet connection < 1322756869 234499 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Functor f) = < 1322756869 431572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parse error: < 1322756869 618418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Functor f) = < 1322756869 806323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1322756875 169071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Functor f) => f (a -> a) < 1322756875 374377 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Schemes everywhereBut :: GenericQ Bool -> GenericT -> GenericT < 1322756875 564189 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases unGQ :: GenericQ' r -> GenericQ r < 1322756875 753338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Twins gzipWithT :: GenericQ (GenericT) -> GenericQ (GenericT) < 1322756880 324549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: impossible < 1322756889 344600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322756894 701715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor provides no way to get an f a for any a < 1322756904 342642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without already having an f b and a (b -> a), ofc < 1322756908 972910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t pure id < 1322756909 803184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (f :: * -> *). (Applicative f) => f (a -> a) < 1322756997 823426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well obviously it's not unpossible because I just used 3 functions that satisfy that type. I assume you mean it's impossible to generally do that. < 1322757028 678900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there seem to be no such wrappers < 1322757033 50871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no value foo :: (Functor f) => f (a -> a) < 1322757035 853871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoogling for functions I could fixify as above. < 1322757038 421534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it just makes no sense < 1322757042 743764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they'd probably be in a third-party library < 1322757044 816197 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your type was (Functor f) => f (a -> a) -> f a < 1322757050 283078 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well I looked in lib/ < 1322757051 575662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1322757056 2883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a typo for ifndef, I guess < 1322757061 347825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: anyway, that's just because lambdabot (.) = fmap < 1322757070 628506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. < 1322757077 623217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt it, or the d3d version wouldn't even compile with the typo in, so it'd have been caught easily < 1322757092 104050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: um, maybe the Direct3D version just uses OpenGL for some things? < 1322757113 208266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let fixify f = fix Prelude.. f; repeat = fixify (:); cycle = fixify (++); forever = fixify (>>) in fixify < 1322757114 97815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. (a -> a1 -> a1) -> a -> a1 < 1322757118 47668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arguable, considering the code doesn't compile on linux in the first place < 1322757121 118574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maaybe. But I'm pretty sure that mixing them is in general a bad idea and unlikely to work < 1322757136 106759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd have happened on every platform, unless that bit's Linux-specific too < 1322757144 144527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was shared < 1322757144 778560 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @hoogle @type let fixify f = fix Prelude.. f; repeat = fixify (:); cycle = fixify (++); forever = fixify (>>) in fixify < 1322757145 820645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data.IntMap fold :: (a -> b -> b) -> b -> IntMap a -> b < 1322757146 4147 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap foldr :: (a -> b -> b) -> b -> IntMap a -> b < 1322757146 4244 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.IntMap foldr' :: (a -> b -> b) -> b -> IntMap a -> b < 1322757153 487467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: USE_DIRECT3D would not be set on Linux < 1322757163 561973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was in the classical software raytrace loading screen of darwinia < 1322757166 79767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just saying that the code obviously has errors not in the released binaries for whatever reason < 1322757166 322075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remember that one < 1322757177 53927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK < 1322757185 76663 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> a1 -> a1) < 1322757185 480365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude seq :: a -> b -> b < 1322757185 667971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc.Sync par :: a -> b -> b < 1322757185 668061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Conc par :: a -> b -> b < 1322757200 648840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: flip const < 1322757247 280058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does seq do, and is it something incredibly unhaskellish? < 1322757256 983623 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what seq does < 1322757264 801561 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.93 QUIT :Quit: reconnect < 1322757269 753489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's kind of unhaskellish? < 1322757273 683227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or are on a campaign to wilfully forget as much Haskell as possible :P < 1322757280 697876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the obvious meaning is "force a and return b" < 1322757281 863677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seq _|_ a = _|_; seq a b = b < 1322757286 345407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322757287 730288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not its meaning < 1322757293 981907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(force a and return b) < 1322757297 794087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does break parametricity a bit though < 1322757299 359775 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.93 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322757306 541399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not unsalvagably < 1322757309 424549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking "a can't possibly have a side effect, so how would seq be different from flip const" < 1322757320 469838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is that it's an infinite-loop-checker? < 1322757323 290818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have a side effect of sorts. < 1322757331 834530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no, it doesn't < 1322757335 623661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ isn't a side-effect < 1322757335 810417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm just trying to work out why it'd be useful < 1322757341 602767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not an infinite loop checker < 1322757345 416428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's _|_ if either argument is bottom < 1322757347 179605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :else the right argument < 1322757361 341584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: forcing the evaluation of a thunk is pretty side-effecty < 1322757367 284715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bottom = infinite loop or exception < 1322757367 928962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there are no thunks < 1322757375 23847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, of course. < 1322757376 745937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: by that definition, beta-reduction is a side-effect < 1322757382 92919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it mutates the thunk in many implementations < 1322757475 103886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, it's useful because seq is strict in both of its arguments < 1322757478 363805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well it forces a in a context where it would not normally be forced. < 1322757484 735249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to flip const, which is strict in only its latter < 1322757492 312364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "not normally"? plenty of functions are strict in both their arguments < 1322757497 704138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq is just the only polymorphic one < 1322757498 983121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, so in practice it makes the code run faster by being strict? < 1322757502 244007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, those functions do things to their arguments < 1322757506 689625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(strictness doesn't always speed up code, but can do in some contexts) < 1322757506 873974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seq only "does things" to one of them. < 1322757514 535086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why you would use it, yes < 1322757521 41148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a common misconception that seq must evaluate its first argument first < 1322757524 85105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not guaranteed at all < 1322757527 208315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC provides pseq for that purpose < 1322757544 409949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it can evaluate the second argument, then the first, then return the second, I guess < 1322757546 351889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(some people think it /should/ guarantee that, but that breaks even more properties :)) < 1322757553 6003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the only other possible evaluation order < 1322757553 918832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed. and GHC sometimes _does_ do this. < 1322757561 580552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: wrong; id is strict in its argument too < 1322757573 578628 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... -_- < 1322757575 402152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq "does the same thing| to both its arguments < 1322757576 52708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1322757583 645579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not being purposefully dense, you're just wrong < 1322757613 187460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: under normal Haskell semantics, if you accept two arguments and return the second one, the first one is never evaluated < 1322757616 146299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with seq it is.. < 1322757617 248318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: happy? < 1322757631 496357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: id is irrelevant because it returns its one argument < 1322757642 605164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: actually no, the first one could be evaluated too. but you are still wrong even ignoring that: < 1322757650 944926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you are saying is that (\a b -> b) is not strict in its first argument < 1322757656 413556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322757658 972315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is the only such function that meets your criteria < 1322757660 177362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm saying. < 1322757665 753929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody claimed seq was like (\a b -> b) "but special" < 1322757678 530913 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...is it not? < 1322757682 226267 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "doing something special" is not a side-effect. < 1322757727 93802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src seq < 1322757727 323531 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. You untyped fool! < 1322757816 98162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is there any observable difference between id being strict and id being lazy? < 1322757819 72473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help where's the part where seq only uses un-side-effectful Haskell code to do what it does. < 1322757823 871118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: id can't possibly be lazy < 1322757836 474894 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: similarly, (+) on Int has side-effects, because you can't implement it in Haskell < 1322757841 383338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact -- brace yourself < 1322757845 435541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERY PRIMITIVE HAS SIDE-EFFECTS! < 1322757851 384311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, lazy id would do the say thing as strict id, right down to evaluation order < 1322757852 41533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out Haskell is impure because kallisti is an idiot. < 1322757858 443487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is not what I meant. < 1322757861 8192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it wouldn't; there is no lazy id, there are no lazy functions of type (a -> a) < 1322757861 310207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the two are the same < 1322757865 45686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's an incoherent question < 1322757883 71689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you seen the hardware implementation of call-by-name id? it is quite undeniably lazy < 1322757897 162151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no shit, "lazy" changes meanings in different evaluation orders < 1322757906 482922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322757907 50331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but call-by-name is a valid strategy for Haskell too < 1322757911 68492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: id is still strict in it < 1322757923 243877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: side-effects involve modifying state that is not part of the result of the expression. seq does this. clearly (+) does not do that. < 1322757927 551803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't /observe/ its supposed "laziness" at all < 1322757934 866381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the semantics that matter, not the operations < 1322757935 871609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except with a multimeter, right < 1322757946 28180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: seq DOES NOT MODIFY ANY STATE < 1322757961 719630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement haskell in fucking term rewriting < 1322757964 194669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there is no < 1322757964 945373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutable < 1322757965 132972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, I'd say that id is both strict /and/ lazy < 1322757965 688038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :state < 1322757971 787534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: id _|_ = _|_ < 1322757973 182987 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Q.E.D. < 1322757987 234033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seq would still be a side-effect in those circumstances. < 1322758001 603338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you do not understand what a side-effect is. < 1322758030 125610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, "lazy id" is always forced instantly; that's why it's the same as being strict < 1322758053 284974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're bringing details like "force" into it that don't exist at this layer < 1322758053 524994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't all unary operators either strict, or ignore their argument, with your definition? < 1322758060 552116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you just have a very weird notion of what a side-effect is. < 1322758063 257983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course < 1322758070 106928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you don't ignore an argument, you force it < 1322758077 430142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322758083 114043 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clearly seq makes an /observable/ difference to the operational semantics of the program that /has nothing to do with its return value/ < 1322758093 649378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I agree with your definition of "strict", but am not convinced it's the opposite of "lazy" < 1322758098 827774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ah! what you mean is that since < 1322758100 164487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq a b < 1322758101 794561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the same as b < 1322758104 246847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq has a side-effect < 1322758106 828717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the same token < 1322758107 319150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a+1 < 1322758109 98926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not the same as a < 1322758112 601447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh, what? < 1322758114 340792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, again (+) on Int has a side-effect! < 1322758116 67302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG! < 1322758118 811417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. I'm sorry, but you're stupid. < 1322758127 234676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: but seriously though, you can stop bothering, because you're... wrong < 1322758137 759764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have no idea what you're talking about < 1322758138 267561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1322758138 762761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322758150 865990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice strawman though. "oh you actually meant this. now I will demonstrate that what I said is wrong." < 1322758162 47640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys, I heard I/O is relevant to the definition of turing completeness < 1322758169 80484 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not. < 1322758187 196450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reaaaaaaally? I think I'll argue the issue for a few hours with people who know more about the topic than me < 1322758198 989786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and this is relevant to what we're talking about how? < 1322758209 397652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it basically just sounds like a personal attack to me. how silly. < 1322758218 20656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think your problem is, that seq a b is designed to calculate a value depending on both a and b; the fact that the value is always the same as b, doesn't change the fact that it depends on a < 1322758225 779056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relevance is that you should really just drop it before this log becomes more personally embarrassing to you in the future < 1322758228 529799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't intended as an argument < 1322758230 420031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could implement seq on integers as seq i j = (i-i) + j < 1322758248 368535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've occasionally explained seq as just magically knowing the constructors of every data-type < 1322758249 758353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking like < 1322758252 459855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq (A_ ) x = x < 1322758255 566562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq (B _ _) x = x < 1322758256 78093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322758262 565413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*A _ < 1322758266 999786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only reason you think that the generalised seq is side-effecty is that there's no way to get a polymorphic version < 1322758273 494500 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of breaks down for functions, but so does seq :) < 1322758285 71838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322758286 826624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seq lets you distinguish _|_ and (const _|_)) < 1322758294 226381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(another thing kallisti has been confused about, incidentally) < 1322758296 705991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seq /doesn't/ calculate a value based on a and b though. only b. < 1322758301 805779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes it does < 1322758310 461326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the value depends on a by definition < 1322758323 741435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, optimising out the dependency on a, just because the return value isn't affected by it, is wrong < 1322758338 103823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're going to call the dependency a side-effect, you have a pretty weird definition of side-effect < 1322758349 56932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nothing to do with dependency. < 1322758369 155427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how strict is the first argument to seq? does it only go as far as the first constructor, or does it figure out the value "all the way"? < 1322758373 698005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes it does < 1322758379 795126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WHNF, like always < 1322758383 114432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does (a+b) go into an infinite loop if either a or b are infinite loops? < 1322758392 797355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (so, to the first constructor or a lambda, basically) < 1322758398 208833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: strictness and laziness has nothing to do with side-effects, first of all. < 1322758400 196547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK < 1322758403 978403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: exactly < 1322758409 267343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why seq isn't side-effectful < 1322758423 253146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is just going to keep stating facts rather than actually trying to engage in futile argument.\
< 1322758424 893998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has to do with what is computed and what is returned. < 1322758426 899047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\\$// < 1322758442 211849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I admit that seq still feels a bit non-Haskellish to me, but that's not because of side effects, but because it does weird things to eval order < 1322758453 381141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a lot of people don't like it < 1322758462 413657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and in this case, seq returns b and forced a. this is /precisely/ why you can't simply optimize seq away because it performs a side-effect unrelated to just evaluating b and returning that. < 1322758463 552690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Haskell 1.4 was better < 1322758468 504269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it had class Eval a where seq :: a -> b -> b < 1322758472 481518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and e.g. functions weren't an instance < 1322758480 155967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every ADT got an Eval instance for free < 1322758491 173286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was good because fully polymorphic functions didn't get parametricity fucked up < 1322758506 303975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you will never understand why you are wrong until you stop thinking in terms of operations like "forced". < 1322758515 505639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: do you think that (\a b->(b-b)+a)::(Int -> Int -> Int) can be optimised to const::(Int -> Int -> Int)? < 1322758516 504200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two levels: semantics, which do _not_ involve things like "forcing" and "mutation" < 1322758522 766659 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and implementation, which SOMETIMES INVOLVES MUTATION < 1322758527 19898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like finding misconceptions via binary search < 1322758536 184321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC mutates TONS of things in the process of evaluating COMPLETELY PURE (even seq-less, if you think that matters) expressions < 1322758538 996731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether in someone else's view or mine < 1322758553 232986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does NOT MEAN THOSE EXPRESSIONS MUTATE, the expressions DO NOT HAVE SIDE-EFFECTS < 1322758564 518742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is the last I will say on the matter, unless I decide to be a jerk from the sidelines again < 1322758573 775682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, admittedly, fairly likely. < 1322758589 59717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, no? < 1322758591 598333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure that works in the general case < 1322758596 467870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why not? < 1322758600 95848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (binary search, I mean) < 1322758607 447798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes people are just wrong all the way down < 1322758616 63520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, but you can often narrow it down somewhat < 1322758632 663205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because they don't do the same thing? you're making the assumption that Num obeys any kind of laws. < 1322758644 565250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as b-b == fromIntegral 0 < 1322758651 559943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: did you see the ::Int? < 1322758656 620849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no. < 1322758658 589103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm blind. < 1322758669 284303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, in general you couldn't, because of polymorphism < 1322758682 812500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\a b->(b-b)+a) x y < 1322758683 637086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : y - y + x < 1322758687 131084 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean, it /could/ be optimized. it would do the same thing. < 1322758687 875788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as expected < 1322758694 140267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no it wouldn't < 1322758700 120207 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, well, right. < 1322758701 173671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if a is fix id? < 1322758701 475589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictness < 1322758711 234457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, would you say that b-b has side effects? < 1322758715 980548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1322758725 69561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if I flip that expression < 1322758738 698057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to (\a b->(a-a)+b)::(Int->Int->Int) < 1322758743 156836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322758744 114479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seq::(Int->Int->Int) < 1322758748 907452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't optimise it to flip const < 1322758759 867183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on your arguments < 1322758763 871460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have never once claimed that seq can be optimized to flip const < 1322758764 147039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no side effects < 1322758769 411848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1322758780 683488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: and in this case, seq returns b and forced a. this is /precisely/ why you can't simply optimize seq away because it performs a side-effect unrelated to just evaluating b and returning that. < 1322758781 255561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in fact, the reason it can't is because seq has side-effects... < 1322758785 908404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you claimed that it's because it has side effects < 1322758796 761819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I've given an implementation on the integers that doesn't have side effects < 1322758797 197694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct. < 1322758799 754929 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet still can't be optimised away < 1322758802 942958 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322758805 812220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay? < 1322758812 330883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are other reasons things can't be optimized. < 1322758819 401255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: agreed < 1322758825 278629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are the reasons that seq can't be optimised < 1322758849 617255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I suppose that this means that in languages like Agda, it's possible for an integer to be lazily positive < 1322758850 964047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh I see what you're saying. < 1322758858 986737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, forced only so far as being positive, rather than to its actual value < 1322758865 233225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because integers actually have type constructors there < 1322758893 85668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I still think seq performs a side-effect, because side-effects are related to computing expressions < 1322758924 169662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering what seq /does/ do if given a function < 1322758929 109763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> seq id 0 < 1322758929 917741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322758938 124351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably just ignores it < 1322758940 906913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> seq (fix id) 0 < 1322758944 616406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322758948 579974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, no < 1322758965 968887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, fix id isn't afunction < 1322758969 41991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a function < 1322758973 208377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id < 1322758973 928178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1322758984 256756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: hmm, I suppose that this means that in languages like Agda, it's possible for an integer to be lazily positive < 1322758989 413747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> seq (const $ fix id) 0 < 1322758990 64523 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Agda doesn't have _|_ < 1322758990 251489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1322758997 273520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the concept of laziness/strictness doesn't exist < 1322759003 112233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, it was a different "this" < 1322759008 99679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I meant in terms of implementation < 1322759013 821490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not user-observable at all < 1322759020 569169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: things are naturally forced in Haskell semantics by being referring to in functions, or being evaluated in some way. so being forced as the result of being used in an expression is not a side-effect. I'm not saying "forcing values is a side-effect" I'm saying "forcing values that you don't use as part of an expression that you return is a side-effect" < 1322759035 528090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does this mean Agda is sub-TC? < 1322759044 672322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, you can't write a program without a proof it terminates?) < 1322759052 58662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nothing is forced in Haskell's semantics. < 1322759062 371548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well, the argument a /is/ used, that's the point < 1322759067 922507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not used for anything, but it's still used < 1322759071 527802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Agda is sub-TC, yes. < 1322759076 584436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you turn off the termination checker. < 1322759086 588647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine it being subtracted from itself via a generic magic subtraction operation, that returns 0 if you subtract anything from itself < 1322759121 787405 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...it's not relevant to the computed result. in much the same way that the act of writing bytes to a file is irrelevant to the result of writeFile < 1322759127 906121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not true < 1322759132 571097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result of writeFile is an IO action < 1322759137 664841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all that action does is write bytes to af ile < 1322759138 975505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a file < 1322759159 473858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :writeFile is also referentially transparent, i.e. returns the same action for the same arguments always < 1322759182 322899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, writeFile doesn't have side effects; unsafePerformIO does when given its return value, but writeFile doesn't < 1322759236 260179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one possible implementation of IO actions would be as C programs, wouldn't it? and you could define all the functions returning IO actions, and things like >>= for IO, as operating on those programs < 1322759251 57547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then unsafePerformIO and the runtime would simply run the programs produced < 1322759252 554809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1322759257 126409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it'd be quite a bad impl, but it'd be possible) < 1322759280 553268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on that riff: http://conal.net/blog/posts/the-c-language-is-purely-functional (in response to people claiming Haskell is purely-functional) < 1322759299 421148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, /another/ elliott? < 1322759308 147501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :conal elliott is the more famous elliott < 1322759321 817566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's him and another two elliotts in #haskell at the best of times < 1322759324 249761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not the best of times < 1322759327 75845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because one of them is elliottcable < 1322759379 291392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's a little wrong; #undef is a purely functional operation in CPP, because it serves to end a scope, rather than do anything fundamentally side-effecty < 1322759415 389904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, you can use it out of order < 1322759422 721312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? ouch < 1322759427 543460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can... < 1322759433 123242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think you guys have a weird definition of side-effect. < 1322759436 211354 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1322759438 605016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a normal one < 1322759440 603875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the normal one is weird. < 1322759451 417780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: your definition is incoherent < 1322759461 643209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes Haskell-even-without-seq side-effectful < 1322759470 495467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you would claim it isn't, but that's because your definition is self-contradictory) < 1322759477 235331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it doesn't < 1322759488 255111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell-even-without-seq is side-effectful... < 1322759511 210031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-and-IO < 1322759515 364617 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Having a baby is often a occasion whenever you must be careful because the outcomes of earning a mistake might be serious." < 1322759522 816427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1322759540 276155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well, "pure Haskell without side-effects" has no side-effects, yes. < 1322759548 275801 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322759552 209136 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/kallisti/elliott/ < 1322759553 779008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: did you just nickping yourself? < 1322759558 581317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes < 1322759568 756619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, elliott and kallisti must be the same person, it's the only way to explain such a mistake < 1322759574 328685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are. < 1322759576 143644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: indeed it doesn't: unfortunately, your definition makes it so < 1322759580 34808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the only conclusion from that is, that that person is trolling me really heavily) < 1322759595 647872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't realise it, because you don't know what your definition is, because you don't understand it, because you don't understand purity < 1322759606 925142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, because forcing a value as the result of computing it is a side-effect, under my definition, yes? < 1322759614 620646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except it's not, but please explain) < 1322759619 312771 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a definition of "same arguments always gives same results", seq is perfectly pure < 1322759625 645158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as its result depends only on its arguments a and b < 1322759634 488485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah, ais523 has taken the torch of actually attempting to explain to you _why_ you're wrong < 1322759637 607222 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which I mean < 1322759640 102270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave up < 1322759661 656668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to be fair, I didn't understand at the start of the conversation, I just figured it out pretty quickly < 1322759662 898996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, my claim is not that "forcing a value is a side-effect" < 1322759679 261379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because values are forced all the time when no side-effects are occuring. < 1322759684 481651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, such wonders tend to happen when you start without assuming you're correct :P < 1322759698 677913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is something that I don't find very intuitive < 1322759737 352173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've occasionally wished for Haskelly monads elsewhere (especially for error handling); you could do it in OCaml but you have to lazify everything by hand, which is irritating < 1322759772 263100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where lazifying is the easiest way to make statements into what are effectively Either actions) < 1322759841 429146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but how is... < 1322759860 269767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this action is performed, and is completely irrelevant to the output of the expression" < 1322759863 277021 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a side-effect? < 1322759866 432679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"action is performed" < 1322759882 175363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I disagree, as I disagree with the "completely irrelevant" < 1322759884 236140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluating a pure value is not an "action" in the side-effectful sense < 1322759892 904277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, you get an infinite loop if a is an infinite loop < 1322759895 208861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, a isn't irrelevant < 1322759901 605797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pinging the wrong person, dude < 1322759911 65658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was disagreeing with where you found the error < 1322759918 372386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmm < 1322759919 94094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was just disagreeing with a different part. < 1322759929 245169 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322759929 712356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think his statement's wrong even without the "action is performed" part < 1322759944 399752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Were I trying to actually deconstruct kallisti's argument in its entirety, I would have to start by rejecting everything he says, as it is worded in terms of imperative machine operations, not Haskell's pure, timeless semantics. < 1322759958 614278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He would almost certainly interpret this as me trolling him with stubbornness. < 1322759961 70008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't. < 1322759971 945692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah okay so forcing a in a `seq` b is not an action, it's just an observable effect of evaluating the expression that has nothing to do with the return value. got it. < 1322759972 187285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hmm, to put it a different way: you seem to think that side-effects are defined in terms of "X happens and is not useful", rather than in terms of "X happens and does something not reflected by the return value Y" < 1322759980 312739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It has to do with the return value. < 1322759987 269852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a is _|_, then the return value is _|_. < 1322760005 356583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you seem to be thinking that I'm thinking the opposite of what I'm thinking, and then go on to describe exactly what I'm thinking to be the thing I should be thinking. < 1322760008 300332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has happened twice now. < 1322760040 498097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, is it sanely possible to add T to a language as well as _|_? < 1322760053 111108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1322760064 231536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, _|_ is the value of every type, I guess T is the value of no type? < 1322760067 411278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your values would be lattice elements, I think < 1322760071 728622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION PRO MATHEMATICIAN
< 1322760073 373456 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they are < 1322760074 643941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm... < 1322760078 369232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ordered by well-definedness < 1322760084 651328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ezyang has a long post series about this < 1322760090 811138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that makes sense < 1322760095 208660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's only a semilattice in Haskell < 1322760105 525619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322760115 965960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can Haskell talk about _|_ in that way... < 1322760122 318234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ is a suitable value for use in any context; whereas T is a value which, if a context accepts that, it'll accept anything < 1322760125 699765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: We're not Haskell, we're humans. < 1322760135 849604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's semantics most definitely involve _|_. < 1322760152 990374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: in general, _|_ is meaningful, but it's impossible for a computer to always detect its existence < 1322760158 269385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does haskell's semantics involve side-effects? < 1322760162 567102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you get an infinite loop if it's there, but can't) < 1322760186 609684 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1322760195 21435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, although the description of how IO is executed does. < 1322760200 312777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1322760221 420736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ghc can detect a few trivial instances of _|_ existing < 1322760224 704120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 / 0 < 1322760224 924900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Note that there is a function which causes the evaluation of its first argument when forced, but does _not_ return _|_ when the first argument is _|_. < 1322760225 525761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1322760230 609391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1::Int / 0 < 1322760231 368201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Only unit numeric type pattern is valid < 1322760240 862153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1::Int) / 0 < 1322760241 677329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1322760241 862523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1322760251 754439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1::Int) / (0::Int) < 1322760252 540235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1322760252 726192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1322760253 64526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That function is "start evaluating the first argument in another thread, and return the second immediately" (it is only distinguishable from flip const when talking about operations, not semantics). < 1322760256 133915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: AKA par. < 1322760261 67932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It is also completely pure and has no side-effects. < 1322760266 926254 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how about... operational semantics? < 1322760268 878774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1::Int) < 1322760269 578858 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322760280 777949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, division isn't defined on the integers in Haskell < 1322760285 147285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that… makes a lot of sense, actually < 1322760291 224103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: So if you think the return value matters as to whether something has a "side-effect", you're wrong. < 1322760294 685219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: `div` < 1322760299 358813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `div` 0 < 1322760300 118793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t div < 1322760300 302849 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: divide by zero < 1322760300 885487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1322760310 697100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and I was thinking that "integer division" quite possibly was < 1322760318 844417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t quot < 1322760319 689467 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Integral a) => a -> a -> a < 1322760322 964930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, that's a _|_ that was caught by the compiler, as it's a pretty easy one to catch < 1322760326 131079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 `quot `0 < 1322760326 889306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: divide by zero < 1322760350 375027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering what split-complex numbers are used for < 1322760353 343455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: N.B. there are actually semantics given to Haskell's _|_s to explain exceptions < 1322760364 336944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: question: is a guaranteed to evaluate before seq returns? < 1322760380 766054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean exceptions are the reason that _|_ is part of the semantics rather than inferred from it? < 1322760385 135385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Mu. < 1322760386 937538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely convinced I've parsed your line correctly < 1322760390 630430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're talking about operations again. < 1322760393 511865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1322760402 386825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just mean that we don't say exceptions work because the compiler magically realised _|_ was there < 1322760405 483301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: operations seem particularly relevant to side-effects. < 1322760414 48221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OTOH, the semantics for exceptions are really kind of gnarly, so we ignore them when not talking about exceptions :P < 1322760418 17953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322760424 505339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yep, good thing there are no side-effects nivolved < 1322760425 853741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it you can't catch an exception in Haskell? < 1322760433 750684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd be pretty surprised if you could, all things considered) < 1322760437 407950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course you can < 1322760438 294525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but Haskell surprises me a lot) < 1322760439 878321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd be useless otherwise < 1322760443 526657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ouch < 1322760450 246442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.catch < 1322760451 274119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a e. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => IO a -> (e -> IO a) -> IO a < 1322760452 194434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in the denotational semantics, sure. but in the operational semantics... yes? < 1322760462 107209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.throw < 1322760462 891196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall e a. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => e -> a < 1322760463 619186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Control.Exception.throwIO < 1322760464 517040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall e a. (GHC.Exception.Exception e) => e -> IO a < 1322760473 769809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: haskell has no mandatory operational semantics < 1322760482 818146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementations can do what they will. < 1322760489 676358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an implementation proves the first argument to seq always terminates, it can discard it. < 1322760493 70698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, catch is an IO action? that makes a lot of sense too < 1322760517 591925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *a function taking an IO action and a function taking an exception and returning an IO action, and returning an IO action < 1322760518 505847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1322760536 753366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I knew I was going to get a correction like that < 1322760546 153498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have said that a given try…catch block is an IO action < 1322760554 932273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think I'm done pressing the issue. < 1322760568 158391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: which is not the same thing as realising you're wrong, I presume? < 1322760577 882474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this conversation has been enlightening. but no, I don't think I'm wrong on this one. < 1322760585 293199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are < 1322760592 808980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I do understand your perspective now. so cool. < 1322760608 346904 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1322760609 469651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a perspective < 1322760614 322514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's literally objectively correct < 1322760625 880154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't find a single person who knows their shit who will agree with you < 1322760640 270132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine. < 1322760675 74101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. you alone will be correct in your tower of oh shit, somehow I'm a haskell expert by pure chance < 1322760679 103185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to be fair, I'm not sure that the concept that kallisti calls "side-effect" is useless, but I'm not sure how easy it is to define < 1322760682 224907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Prelude Control.Exception> catch (print (1 `div` 0)) (\e -> putStrLn $ "Exception: " ++ show (e::SomeException)) < 1322760682 412289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception: divide by zero < 1322760684 650967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it needs a better name < 1322760709 955326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the IO action was the bit I missed when thinking through it < 1322760711 467557 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott: my concept involves operations. (aka what actually happens when you implement things) < 1322760717 854747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Haskell exceptions are interesting even then because of laziness and and ambiguity < 1322760723 534967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having it as an IO action means that it makes sense to say when it happens < 1322760731 291808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (1 `div` 0) + undefined -- which exception does this throw? < 1322760733 614989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide by 0, or undefined? < 1322760735 190154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives enough context to know how to catch it < 1322760745 682496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends on the impl, I guess < 1322760755 278537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, it's actually formally ambiguous < 1322760762 646932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose an implementation could give guarantees, but it wouldn't /want/ to < 1322760772 762118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's basically the reason exception-catching is in IO < 1322760778 346237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not for that, it would be pure < 1322760784 193961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I meant unspecified, not impl-defined < 1322760787 565547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322760823 117364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Prelude Control.Exception> catch (evaluate [1,2,undefined] >> return ()) (\e -> putStrLn $ "Exception: " ++ show (e::SomeException)) < 1322760823 303910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Control.Exception> < 1322760830 468036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think if catch were pure, and just caught the existence of an exception rather than a specific exception, you'd need to be careful with seq and similar things to make sure that the exception happened inside the catch rather than outside < 1322760833 23567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Control.Exception> catch (evaluate (undefined :: [Int]) >> return ()) (\e -> putStrLn $ "Exception: " ++ show (e::SomeException)) < 1322760833 206205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1322760865 733611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, evaluate only forced it one level < 1322760871 960963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(evaluate is just (\a -> a `seq` return a), except with some extra magic) < 1322760878 82377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so that evaluate undefined `seq` () === ()) < 1322760887 221643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the first case didn't exception because it never cared about the elements of the list, just that it had a head and a tail < 1322760887 408842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. the evaluation only happens when you /execute/ the action) < 1322760906 559747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've basically come to the conclusion that I'm talking about something completely different. So it's not so much that I think I've PROVED EVERYONE WRONG. it's just that those people being right and me being right are irrelative < 1322760915 476062 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322760920 918559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which is ofc perfectly meaningful as an IO action, because the whole point of IO actions is that they happen at a particular time < 1322760935 74820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yoru concept is self-contradictory, so it's gonna need a hell of a lot of reworking to make sense. < 1322760949 928586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the point is that they have side-effects < 1322760956 3784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the same IO action can execute at ten different times, or none < 1322760967 331832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1322760977 928690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but each time it's executed, you can say when < 1322760987 592664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the point, even more than having side-effects, is that they execute in order < 1322760996 382641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the side-effects are useful in practice ;) < 1322761006 719948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO would be useful even if the universe were pure < 1322761011 336946 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I haven't found the contradiction. If you have it I'd like to see, but I doubt you have the patience to go down that route. < 1322761055 619838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, I still haven't figured out how to do IO-style things meaningfully in Feather; the problem's not evaluation order, as that's trivially defined, but other problems) < 1322761086 819204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's possible to create a temporal monad that keeps track of meta-time, and it's probably a useful concept, but I want to avoid it if possible) < 1322761101 929166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially as it breaks the purity of the language) < 1322761286 46491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem with seq _|_ b = _|_; seq a b = b is that there's no computer that can actually do that. < 1322761298 182167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, when you're talking about operational semantics, is relevant. < 1322761299 751738 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there is < 1322761306 290989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer does that when I use seq < 1322761307 898866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also < 1322761313 802086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never claimed to be talking about operational semantics at the start of this < 1322761317 580136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just said seq has side-effects < 1322761319 180480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really uh < 1322761322 420293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up about this, you're wrong < 1322761381 847811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't realize that's what I was talking about until it became apparent that we were talking about different definitions of side-effect. < 1322761402 935208 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. < 1322761411 315706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only every wrong person could be so lucky < 1322761426 194425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: correct. < 1322761534 548313 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. < 1322761534 736255 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : if only every wrong person could be so lucky < 1322761534 736441 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322761536 985490 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322761538 301661 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn it < 1322761541 498569 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :742) right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. < 1322761544 842457 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 742 < 1322761547 982016 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. < 1322761554 618273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I might like it more with just that line < 1322761556 10005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though :P < 1322761568 267677 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. if only every wrong person could be so lucky < 1322761570 671790 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :742) right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. if only every wrong person could be so lucky < 1322761573 641575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION clap
< 1322761578 761900 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322761578 942826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 2h 56m 28s ago: A spammy, useless message. < 1322761590 903256 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM < 1322761591 87131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322761595 516512 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie FRIED EGGS AND SPAM < 1322761595 697386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322761816 969716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does side-effect have a formal definition? < 1322761853 686657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :referential transparency is a good one. < 1322762008 174915 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It blew up the moon, but no value accessible thru my references has changed. < 1322762042 409396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they're equivalent (aka referential transparency <-> no side-effects ) < 1322762052 557990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, I don't think they're related in that way < 1322762054 202931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not equivalent < 1322762061 47122 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322762063 439835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but eventually you call it so much that the computer explodes. < 1322762067 468112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And THEN it stops giving the same results. < 1322762098 864105 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This function, on certain inputs, will take more time than the shelf life of the processor. Therefore it has side effects. < 1322762111 335230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: TOTESg < 1322762127 540626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't actually think referential transparency by itself = purity, and especially not "referential transparency on some hardware", but it's a start :P) < 1322762170 396466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.27.7800 This is apparently the most popular definition. < 1322762182 820240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves popular things.
< 1322762213 705326 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This paper should have the subtitle "Baby Don't Hurt Me" < 1322762239 835449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Stretching things a bit :P < 1322762257 656915 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AND YET IT IS NOW STUCK IN YOUR HEAD < 1322762270 368349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What is the point of turning into a tortured What Is Love reference, even if it doesn't fit at all? < 1322762272 991889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BABY DON'T HURT ME < 1322762274 74533 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T HURT ME < 1322762275 112488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO MO' < 1322762281 2078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wins you're welcome.
< 1322762302 241347 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1322762345 737619 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that reminds me of Dan Ghica doing things like calling fork() in callbacks in order to break other people's proven security properties < 1322762355 577866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322762379 927859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because their formal model didn't allow for /that/ sort of side effect < 1322762482 854167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all programs are the side-effect of me (or my computer) creating them. < 1322762492 960648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore: everything is side-effects. < 1322762539 413842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: arguably, IO with concurrency should have a different monad to IO without concurrency < 1322762542 131918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're so different < 1322762562 60559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of things might want to take actions in the latter as arguments < 1322762572 425138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with ofc sequentially :: IO a -> ConcIO a) < 1322762577 244830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, indeed < 1322762584 339487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way round too? < 1322762592 966556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also a meaningful operation < 1322762595 446467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that defeats the whole point < 1322762603 343648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it lets you fork from within a sequential callback < 1322762604 32654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does crashing my computer as the result of a memory link count as a side-effect? :3 it's certainly not related to the return value. < 1322762617 169701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but you'd have to unfork again before returning < 1322762632 480327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm about to miss a bus, so bye everyone; I'll probably be back later < 1322762635 244042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322762639 691364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err? fork :: ConcIO a -> ConcIO ThreadId was the operation I was imagining ConcIO would have < 1322762649 24182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to standard boring stuff on ThreadIds, and MVars < 1322762765 46639 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322762815 315320 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322762884 33335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, for some reason hackage isn't responding. < 1322763159 220968 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322763366 817820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Laws: < 1322763366 999397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- pure x = slide (pure x) x < 1322763366 999579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- slide fs f <*> slide xs x = slide (fs <*> xs) (f x) < 1322763369 388557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what good laws! < 1322763402 596191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is known as the "pure slide pure" law < 1322763411 140553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second one is known as the "slide slide slide" law < 1322763430 615634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also double as dance moves. < 1322763481 609745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f g x -> f (g x) x < 1322763481 797789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip id . liftM2 < 1322763490 963156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \f g h x -> f (g x) (h x) < 1322763491 147766 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 < 1322763504 799496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = liftM2 slide pure id < 1322763506 774002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MADE IT BETTER < 1322763512 935019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = slide <$> pure <*> id < 1322763614 736646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obfuscationist! < 1322763688 894580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= g < 1322763689 645263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m b)) < 1322763689 829569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `M3862060386... < 1322763693 467208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= g $ x < 1322763694 313199 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1322763694 494557 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1322763694 494738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1322763702 972766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= g $ x :: Expr < 1322763703 724191 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1322763703 904395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `GHC.Show.Show a' < 1322763703 904581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : a... < 1322763713 925237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= g $ x y :: Expr < 1322763714 640437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `SimpleReflect.Expr -> a' < 1322763714 862630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against infe... < 1322763717 464846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :serpkweroweirowieriowetioweriwet < 1322763746 695491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh rite < 1322763834 258118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t f >>= const g < 1322763834 974806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (SimpleReflect.FromExpr (m a), SimpleReflect.FromExpr (m b), Monad m) => m b < 1322763846 168124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> f >>= const g $ x < 1322763846 932124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint: < 1322763847 119712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `SimpleReflect.FromExpr a... < 1322763917 58657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322763920 843670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1322763921 23349 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ' only a bit?' more voices were raised. < 1322764062 270790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> "(f " ++ x ++ ")") >>= (\x y -> "(g " ++ x ++ " " ++ y ++ ")") $ "x" < 1322764063 744976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "(g (f x) x)" < 1322764092 823897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = pure >>= slide < 1322764097 174237 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^^^ < 1322764106 595366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed. < 1322764315 660737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish hackage would stop being down. < 1322764366 595423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Laws: < 1322764366 780173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip . toZip = toZip . fromZip = id < 1322764366 780351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip (pure x) = slide (fromZip (pure x)) x < 1322764366 780469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip (toZip (slide fs f) <*> toZip slide xs x) < 1322764366 780574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- = slide (fromZip (toZip fs <*> toZip xs)) (f x) < 1322764369 534925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laws got even better. < 1322764390 266870 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell. < 1322764395 97962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I looking at. < 1322764411 430728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromZip . toZip = toZip . fromZip = id < 1322764415 467524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good one < 1322764471 405532 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does fromZip make sense for arbitrary arguments? < 1322764482 262206 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just going by the name) < 1322764490 811913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Applicative (Zip v)) => Space v a | v -> a where < 1322764490 994547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- Laws: < 1322764490 994723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip . toZip = toZip . fromZip = id < 1322764490 994834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip (pure x) = slide (fromZip (pure x)) x < 1322764490 994941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- fromZip (toZip (slide fs f) <*> toZip slide xs x) < 1322764491 493943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -- = slide (fromZip (toZip fs <*> toZip xs)) (f x) < 1322764493 313121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : data Zip v :: * -> * < 1322764495 343159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : toZip :: v -> Zip v a < 1322764497 353724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromZip :: Zip v a -> v < 1322764499 349728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : slide :: v -> a -> v < 1322764505 233218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :used like so: < 1322764506 769257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Two = Two {-# UNPACK #-} !Double {-# UNPACK #-} !Double deriving (Show) < 1322764506 975560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Space Two Double where < 1322764507 834544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : data Zip Two a = TwoZ !a !a < 1322764509 371629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : toZip (Two x0 x1) = TwoZ x0 x1 < 1322764511 295043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromZip (TwoZ x0 x1) = Two x0 x1 < 1322764513 310915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : slide (Two _ x1) y = Two x1 y < 1322764515 357985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Functor (Zip Two) where < 1322764517 305227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fmap f (TwoZ x0 x1) = TwoZ (f x0) (f x1) < 1322764519 306164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Applicative (Zip Two) where < 1322764521 338739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : pure x = TwoZ x x < 1322764522 216834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.textfiles.com/uploads/2001.txt I have no idea what this is but it says "Monad Hate Barrier" < 1322764523 314271 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : TwoZ f0 f1 <*> TwoZ x0 x1 = TwoZ (f0 x0) (f1 x1) < 1322764527 589932 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also 159 mentions of the word monad < 1322764551 147057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the numerical dictionary! < 1322764554 812241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing < 1322764572 354734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001.txt 349098 < 1322764573 66629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soren Greenwood's Conspiracy Theory to Explain all Other Conspiracy Theories (January 10, 2001) < 1322764607 454649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hth < 1322764653 994712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow I don't even know how to go about this... < 1322764660 892084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what < 1322764665 38 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about reading this thing. < 1322764684 768491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*This* is Yammer's official position on the subject: our goal at Yammer is to revolutionize the way modern workers collaborate and we'll use whatever tools will allow us to iterate faster on that goal. If Scala is that tool, we'll use Scala; if Java is that tool, we'll use Java; if INTERCAL is that tool, we'll use INTERCAL. (We don't expect to have to use INTERCAL; don't worry.)" < 1322764689 391822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's ais when you need him < 1322764694 81507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: from top to bottom, one presumes < 1322764789 95464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell it's just putting together loose mental associations until everything becomes a conspiracy theory? < 1322764858 342812 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever see "monad hate barrier" I know it has something to do with 151... < 1322764871 28537 :derrik_!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322764875 708089 :derrik_!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee QUIT :Client Quit < 1322764914 31011 :derrik!~xix@194.150.65.93 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322765122 450130 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322765197 186302 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322765215 878676 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = length . nub $ filterM (const [True, False]) [1 .. abs n] < 1322765216 737451 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322765242 874379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map powerOfTwo [1..10] < 1322765244 422672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024] < 1322765254 976994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: behold, the most efficient way to compute powers of two. < 1322765301 753908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the abs. < 1322765315 384665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's essential. < 1322765357 369711 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ^ (-2) < 1322765358 99413 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Negative exponent < 1322765363 549292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ** (-2) < 1322765364 406519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.25 < 1322765371 62853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> powerOfTwo -2 < 1322765371 797573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> GHC.Types.Int) < 1322765371 978504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fro... < 1322765375 737572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> powerOfTwo (-2) < 1322765377 218788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1322765380 1296 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO ACCURATE < 1322765423 12775 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> powerOfTwo 0 < 1322765424 536871 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322765511 138838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:09:19: apparently tunes also uses sidereal time. < 1322765515 659140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST GLOGBOT < 1322765515 875547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322765519 934337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*@ask oerjan WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST GLOGBOT < 1322765521 588571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask oerjan WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST GLOGBOT < 1322765521 769135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322765534 324485 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = [recip, id] !! (fromEnum (n < 0)) . length . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765535 129340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1322765535 308841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix `GHC.List.!!' [infixl 9] and `L..'... < 1322765547 85626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([recip, id] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . length . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765547 878770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Fractional GHC.Types.Int) < 1322765548 60180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use o... < 1322765554 949062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1322765574 643818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([recip, id] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765576 217249 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0.5,0.25,0.125,6.25e-2,3.125e-2,1.5625e-2,7.8125e-3,3.90625e-3,1.953125e-3... < 1322765579 732111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322765591 244577 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765592 719820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2.0,4.0,8.0,16.0,32.0,64.0,128.0,256.0,512.0,1024.0] < 1322765603 332625 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better < 1322765622 381299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. n] in map twoPower [1..10] < 1322765623 872437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2.0,4.0,8.0,16.0,32.0,64.0,128.0,256.0,512.0,1024.0] < 1322765624 132187 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322765626 704203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm... now even twice as good! < 1322765629 886835 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322765645 138914 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in map twoPower -2 < 1322765645 863745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ([a] -> [a1]) < 1322765646 42933 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use... < 1322765650 546389 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in twoPower -2 < 1322765651 342478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a1) < 1322765651 522299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ... < 1322765653 548722 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :jserjgiuweriuwehriuwheriuhdfiuhweruihweiuhweiruhweriuhwetiuweht < 1322765656 578494 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :too pointy, make it more pointless < 1322765658 848178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322765664 37291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in (twoPower -2) < 1322765664 759201 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a1) < 1322765664 938578 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ... < 1322765667 54728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm afraid < 1322765672 539340 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twoPower n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n] in twoPower (-2) < 1322765673 977663 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.25 < 1322765677 12310 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear I can program guys. < 1322765693 677636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\n -> ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]) $ [1 .. abs n]) < 1322765693 919335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap ((. (genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]))) . ([id, recip] !!) . fromEnum . (< 0)) (enumFromTo 1 . abs) < 1322765725 682666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing a conditional by indexing a list? how Pythonic < 1322765744 251803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:29:57: pikhq_: I knew they were Christian based but not anti-gay < 1322765748 487218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A#Religious_and_political_views < 1322765756 683156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "*This* is Yammer's official position on the subject: our goal at Yammer is to revolutionize the way modern workers collaborate and we'll use whatever tools will allow us to iterate faster on that goal. If Scala is that tool, we'll use Scala; if Java is that tool, we'll use Java; if INTERCAL is that tool, we'll use INTERCAL. (We don't expect to have to use INTERCAL; don't worry.)" < 1322765756 862615 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where's ais when you need him < 1322765780 943718 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1322765781 397026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't expect them to have to use INTERCAL either < 1322765798 286313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've used that idiom in several languages actually. < 1322765819 376925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: most languages have a perfectly usable ternary < 1322765827 435344 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE LAME < 1322765834 377987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml has if/then/else; I imagine the same works in Haskell < 1322765852 614584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (("kill self", "stay alive")[int(rand(6)) > 0]) < 1322765853 712896 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>deriv powerOfTwo x < 1322765854 983839 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :stay alive < 1322765858 630523 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo x < 1322765859 390982 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif b' < 1322765859 570056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322765876 196128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322765888 707809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo = ap ((. (genericLength . nub . filterM (const [True, False]))) . ([id, recip] !!) . fromEnum . (< 0)) (enumFromTo 1 . abs) < 1322765889 562502 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322765908 186128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo (x :: Expr) < 1322765908 936299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum < 1322765909 115129 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Data.Number.Dif.Dif Sim... < 1322765923 491848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo 4 < 1322765924 234433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (Data.Number.Dif.Dif a)) < 1322765924 414908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a u... < 1322765941 55117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow amazing < 1322765986 554070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . filterM (const [True, False] $ replicate 4 0 < 1322765987 316942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322765992 180818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate 4 0 < 1322765993 638794 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16 < 1322766070 424231 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322766086 982396 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing] in powerOfTwo 4 < 1322766087 727050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `]' < 1322766093 416828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing in powerOfTwo 4 < 1322766094 875151 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16.0 < 1322766098 128138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing in powerOfTwo -4 < 1322766098 872306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (GHC.Types.Int -> a) < 1322766099 52812 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising fro... < 1322766104 820532 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing in powerOfTwo (-4) < 1322766106 294097 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.25e-2 < 1322766113 313895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1/16 < 1322766114 234217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.25e-2 < 1322766116 729112 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay. < 1322766128 164727 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing < 1322766128 649185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : :2:0: < 1322766128 831947 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Multiple declarations of `L.powerOfTwo' < 1322766129 10842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Declared at: ... < 1322766132 220519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322766133 142439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ replicate (abs n) Nothing < 1322766134 373712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322766143 706901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo (x :: Expr) < 1322766144 513260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `Data.Number.Dif.Dif a' < 1322766144 694185 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferr... < 1322766154 601119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t powerOfTwo < 1322766155 408981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Fractional a) => Int -> a < 1322766169 516012 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1322766193 462490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t abs < 1322766194 283922 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> a < 1322766195 870401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t genericReplicate < 1322766196 688619 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall i a. (Integral i) => i -> a -> [a] < 1322766196 995126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t repliate . abs < 1322766197 827209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `repliate' < 1322766229 375921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322766245 475547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ genericReplicate (abs n) Nothing < 1322766246 311267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322766258 714858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo (x :: Expr) < 1322766259 426358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral < 1322766259 605258 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Data.Number.Dif.Dif... < 1322766271 439309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm shocked < 1322766287 345161 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b < 1322766287 921388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude fromIntegral :: (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b < 1322766288 101976 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (^) :: (Num a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a < 1322766288 281035 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List genericIndex :: Integral a => [b] -> a -> b < 1322766310 110238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Integral a, Num b) => b -> a < 1322766310 631745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude ceiling :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1322766310 811449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude floor :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1322766310 811558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude round :: (RealFrac a, Integral b) => a -> b < 1322766324 866011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... no < 1322766331 220524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo 5 < 1322766332 364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.Integral (Data.Number.Dif.Dif a)) < 1322766332 180069 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from... < 1322766347 249574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww. < 1322766381 205289 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> round 5 < 1322766381 991032 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1322766390 66467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t round 5 < 1322766390 976631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. (Integral b) => b < 1322766394 733922 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. -_- < 1322766427 312184 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undefine < 1322766437 705747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let powerOfTwo n = ([id,recip] !! (fromEnum (n < 0))) . genericLength . filterM (const [True, False]) $ genericReplicate (abs . floor $ n) Nothing < 1322766438 569267 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322766442 954523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo 5 < 1322766444 446710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.0 < 1322766458 685250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> deriv powerOfTwo (x :: Expr) -- Expr is /totally/ a RealFrac < 1322766459 408294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.RealFrac SimpleReflect.Expr) < 1322766459 587250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a us... < 1322766462 844756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322766516 378434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be < 1322766537 466776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@info RealFrac < 1322766537 645822 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :RealFrac < 1322766541 898623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: ah, thanks. < 1322766544 924337 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (deriv powerOfTwo) [-5.5,-5..5] < 1322766546 404660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.... < 1322766559 439401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I wonder where that's happening < 1322766590 453131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your function isn't very... nice. < 1322766592 781761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well calculating the length from replicate just gives you a bunch of 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 ... < 1322766593 491977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a conditional and all. < 1322766622 291632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's probably why it's zero < 1322766758 705205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what are you talking about this is definitely the best implementation of the base-2 real-except-actually-integer exponential function < 1322766848 566312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> floor (5 :: Int) < 1322766849 299719 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Real.RealFrac GHC.Types.Int) < 1322766849 478975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ... < 1322766898 533092 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1322767258 400480 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let multiply x y = genericLength . concatMap ((const .: genericReplicate) x Nothing) $ replicate y Nothing in multiply 2 5 < 1322767259 948806 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1322767333 427943 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let multiply x y = genericLength . concatMap ((const .: genericReplicate) x undefined) $ replicate y undefined in multiply 2 5 < 1322767334 921547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 10 < 1322767365 261545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromIntegral = (`genericReplicate` undefined) < 1322767402 235865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... well < 1322767403 781702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1322767407 345188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works for positive numbers < 1322767444 580909 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322767493 824201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+) = (++); (*) = concatMap . const; < 1322767505 731731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't quite figured out subtraction. this really only works for positive numbers. < 1322767506 274071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1322767521 226358 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (*) = (>>) too, iirc < 1322767521 406617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322767554 134420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length $ replicate 4 undefined >> replicate 5 undefined < 1322767554 886416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 < 1322767559 391327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, indeed. < 1322767568 923216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would make sense... < 1322767570 357877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because uh... < 1322767577 774544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>) = concatMap . const < 1322767596 506164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t concatMap . const < 1322767597 362215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. [b] -> [a] -> [b] < 1322767597 975228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (>>) < 1322767598 762818 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a b. (Monad m) => m a -> m b -> m b < 1322767601 640734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite. < 1322767608 246958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for lists... which is the context here. < 1322767611 208177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite. < 1322767615 241343 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (^) = mapM . const < 1322767619 212305 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1322767622 963850 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM . const < 1322767623 757088 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => m b -> [a] -> m [b] < 1322767640 740973 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm no < 1322767658 563509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well for powers of two I've been using filterM to compute the power set. < 1322767666 134942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: concatMapM? < 1322767717 465476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :challenge: use this scheme to model negative numbers < 1322767739 956418 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mapM_ . const < 1322767740 776266 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (Monad m) => m b -> [a] -> m () < 1322767762 709943 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you don't care about the element type < 1322767776 732390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far the element is undefined < 1322767779 912250 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mapM_ (const [1,2,3]) [1,2] < 1322767780 726559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [(),(),(),(),(),(),(),(),()] < 1322767784 591469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of undefined < 1322767806 90944 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good < 1322767806 931380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the instance could be made for [a] instead of [()] or something < 1322767827 285199 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322767855 861349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think this can work at all with negatives < 1322767858 347165 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1322767859 489380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without drastic changes. < 1322767867 61357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can construct them with the obvious tuple formation < 1322767869 157704 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you'd think :P < 1322767871 333949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may even be elegant < 1322767935 675704 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, you missed the first part. fromIntegral = (`genericReplicate` undefined) < 1322768013 948993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Either [a] [a] could do negatives... but I don't think it would be very pretty. < 1322768045 314299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it suffers from negative zero < 1322768051 278007 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: let n = (replicate n undefined ++) and let -n = drop n < 1322768068 999912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t drop < 1322768069 836202 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. Int -> [a] -> [a] < 1322768076 612600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :length n yes < 1322768077 152185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ([a],[a]) < 1322768080 717996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a,b) represents a-b < 1322768090 940239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh... nice. < 1322768091 925469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same way you (usually) construct the rationals < 1322768102 776409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t genericDrop < 1322768103 618014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall i a. (Integral i) => i -> [a] -> [a] < 1322768107 46556 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the same problem of infinitely many ways to represent any one given number < 1322768115 6995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reduction is easy < 1322768132 895131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unless we give it an integral instance. you'd want drop (length n) < 1322768150 787333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pretty < 1322768155 753424 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that isn'tw hat he meant < 1322768159 24688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a = b means representation of a is b < 1322768174 835235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :negate a = drop (length (a [])) < 1322768182 256167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind I see... < 1322768183 359031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that fails < 1322768187 320100 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can't negate negatives < 1322768196 144005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wouldn't < 1322768199 325580 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a -> (replicate n a ++) < 1322768200 316889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be better < 1322768202 661497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you could do like < 1322768206 886284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a False (repeat True) < 1322768211 278949 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: er i was giving the translation from Ints, really < 1322768216 183915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um hmm < 1322768220 997368 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 0 [1..] < 1322768221 420593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1322768227 775237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (const (drop 10)) 0 [1..] < 1322768228 694161 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35... < 1322768238 600962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\a -> (replicate 10 a ++)) 0 [1..] < 1322768240 117992 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,... < 1322768259 855429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc that cheats by using Integer :P) < 1322768303 250710 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you figure out the details ;P < 1322768313 487803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yours _works_ fine. < 1322768340 688366 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that yafgc updates aren't quite as regular as he's used to from his webcomics
< 1322768358 302752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if null $ n [undefined] then head $ n LIST_OF_ALL_NATURALS_REPRESENTED_IN_THIS_WAY else drop . length $ n [] < 1322768399 713029 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for oots, which was awful of course < 1322768448 307627 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that you're referring to oots's update schedule, and not the content, when you call it "awful" < 1322768457 59986 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1322768481 100220 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wasn't aware that there was any reason to read anything other than homestuck.
< 1322768514 476193 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: what about #esoteric? < 1322768527 429327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually read #esoteric < 1322768547 761008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I /still/ maintain my kallisti = Bjorn comparison < 1322768569 758750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wouldn't want to read a book about kallisti < 1322768578 246347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't really get that comparison < 1322768586 508833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you wouldn't < 1322768590 254754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor would Bjorn < 1322768594 744696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude I'm super interesting. < 1322768605 616791 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322768607 2519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a book about me would be amazing < 1322768607 602136 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: regarding my anti-glogbot stance, i was actually using it at the time and somehow managed to think i was using tunes because insane timezones were involved < 1322768611 658513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be the greatest work of literature. < 1322768615 455265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lol < 1322768656 962864 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's already a book about me, at http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1322768670 711101 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Jokes aside, I have not in fact told my entire life story here) < 1322768700 207768 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, only the embarrassing parts < 1322768702 649301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, there's /more/? < 1322768703 339280 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away
< 1322768720 571658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicate (-5) undefined < 1322768721 319927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [] < 1322768722 946511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1322768748 17191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists should go negative-ways < 1322768754 268781 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> drop (-5) [1..] < 1322768755 44306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1322768775 713915 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it actually works as replicate n undefined . drop (-n) < 1322768787 274228 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322768793 977016 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs a ++ somewhere < 1322768806 588224 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322768828 678728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1322768837 709356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not particularly elegant is it? < 1322768843 373875 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the representation: yes. the code: no < 1322768854 523169 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to create twosided infinite lists :P < 1322768873 382808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds awesome. < 1322768885 508155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid operation: flipItTurnWays < 1322768917 794465 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not WitherShins? (sp?) < 1322768934 941581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322768939 74460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a joke I'm aware of < 1322768946 467501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flipItTurnWays is much better. < 1322768969 316746 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well i misread that as TurnWise anyway < 1322769087 761436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two-way list things, toInteger = genericLength < 1322769101 181486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as negative lengths would be possible. < 1322769417 753699 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, go read some Discworld < 1322770284 172564 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric : I swear I can program guys. <-- NOOOO, don't program me! < 1322770455 383238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = dVar (var "oerjan") in deriv (\x -> x^2 + 2*x + 1) x < 1322770456 262344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2+oerjan+oerjan~~ < 1322770466 703828 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1322770470 693957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = var "oerjan" in deriv (\x -> x^2 + 2*x + 1) x < 1322770471 526277 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2+oerjan+oerjan < 1322770473 500939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bad < 1322770483 40382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t dVar < 1322770483 829134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a) => a -> Dif a < 1322770490 108735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I made a cool thing earlier < 1322770594 746516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f = genericLength . takeWhile (/=0) . iterate df . f $ dVar (x :: Expr) in nDerivs (^2) < 1322770596 168832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1322770638 870564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f = genericLength . takeWhile (/=0) . iterate df . f $ dVar (x :: Expr) in nDerivs sin < 1322770642 579295 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322770643 835667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let nDerivs f = genericLength . takeWhile (/=0) . iterate df . f $ dVar (x :: Expr) in nDerivs (const 4) < 1322770645 341471 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1322770652 88377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ping < 1322770714 853998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just iterate df . f $ dVar x by itself is pretty cool. < 1322770718 945864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523, set tabstop=4 < 1322770739 120705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 4 spaces = 1 indent, 1 tab = 2 indents? < 1322770746 903963 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, 1 tab = 4 wide < 1322770751 666721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate df . (^2) $ dVar (x :: Expr) < 1322770753 173354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [x * x~~,1 * x + x * 1~~,1 * 1 + 1 * 1~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~~,0~... < 1322770760 673203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indentation I set separately with sw=4 (although this is a flaw of vim that it's set like this) < 1322770761 59431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's just broken < 1322770768 660448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map val . iterate df . sin $ dVar (x :: Expr) < 1322770770 146054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [sin x,1 * cos x,1 * (1 * negate (sin x)),1 * (1 * (1 * negate (cos x))),1 ... < 1322770775 176804 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION continues using his broken editor happily.
< 1322770808 904594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it a flaw of vim that it can set tabs and indentations differently? < 1322770825 613941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most editors can do that, to read code in the common indent = 2 spaces, 4 indents = 1 tab format < 1322770833 806173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know it's common because I've seen it in quite a lot of third-party code) < 1322770842 301326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/third-party/GNU/ < 1322770845 470314 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux, should I use emacs from the console or is a more graphical emacs acceptable? < 1322770847 678988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2-spaces is not common in C outside of GNU code < 1322770855 51978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used, but not very commonly < 1322770865 151979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you use a graphical Emacs, weasels will peck at your face. < 1322770865 966200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: only legitimate hackers use nano on console. < 1322770870 998167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we will consider you inferior. < 1322770874 451115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weasels, that is. < 1322770879 124835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote GNU Tar < 1322770881 552996 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :665) Real Tar is GNU tar. You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. < 1322770963 933647 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let nDerivs f = genericLength . takeWhile (/=0) . iterate df . f $ dVar (x :: Expr) < 1322770964 815329 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1322770971 966005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think 2-char-widths is the most common indentation I've seen for C < 1322770977 866409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether via spaces or mixed space/tab < 1322770983 891728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I see 4 from time to time < 1322770998 114910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and occasionally 8 when someone's used only tabs < 1322771004 854740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is horrid < 1322771029 50287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clearly this is the most useful piece of Haskell code written, yes? (nDerivs) < 1322771042 389311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's true that if you fudge the numbers with your unpopular opinions, then you can derive incorrect results, yes < 1322771068 501270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, what width would you say code's using if it's indented only with tabs? serious question < 1322771092 884871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you either have to count it as 8, or ignore it altogether as if it's not 8, there's no information about what it's intended to be < 1322771098 258303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not, it's indentation-width agnostic. But what matters for statistics is whatever the majority of its authors uses. < 1322771115 289540 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, a tab-width discussion < 1322771120 637721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, what the majority of its readers use < 1322771123 570346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, i'm not giong to let it develop that far < 1322771136 982667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's an indentation-width discussion, which is not quite the same thing < 1322771141 106341 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the width of a tab is the width of a tab. < 1322771147 818496 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, ok < 1322771158 357919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm ending it here since this is boring < 1322771159 77255 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322771166 387692 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-65-236.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322771166 567028 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1322771167 750388 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file can specify a tab width through a modeline, thereby indicating its indentation width even if it's all just tabs < 1322771185 741721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text "\t" < 1322771189 727030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I was thinking about that < 1322771192 360875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: indeed (although the reader is of course not bound to it, it's just to make the developers' job easier) < 1322771195 321294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text " " < 1322771196 819229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but modelines are getting increasingly rare nowadays < 1322771202 372279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: actually i think that shoudln't be used at all < 1322771207 845978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it overrides each developer's individual preference < 1322771210 879653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arguably, if a file is tab-indented, the modeline should say it's tab-indented but not the size of a tab < 1322771234 880433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> text . fix $ (' ':) < 1322771247 447734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: text is strict < 1322771250 68115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : thread killed < 1322771275 346095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I was looking for statistics but couldn't find them < 1322771293 275565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if mixed spaces/tabs, in C, is more common than pure tabs < 1322771297 4862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be quite close, I imagine < 1322771308 764300 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ais523: The IOCCC submission page has an "additional authors" option. < 1322771312 517863 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, collab is A-OK. < 1322771313 200541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That term is ambiguous. < 1322771320 39229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, just not public publishing < 1322771324 137187 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322771332 333113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *Gregor: < 1322771339 228218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing in the rules forbids public publishing < 1322771340 330885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1322771346 716393 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mixed spaces and tabs is the most universally disliked indentation < 1322771350 480327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They have a page? I thought you were meant to use their tool to generate a file to mail. < 1322771359 959325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, has it changed? there definitely /was/ a rule about using publicly published stuff in a previous year < 1322771365 85955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, there's a submission form nowadys < 1322771365 541991 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're just mixing styles haphazardly all around < 1322771369 612640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's an ambiguous term; I bet ais523 would label tabs-for-indentation, spaces-for-alignment under that < 1322771375 216298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but that's the /reasonable/ way to use tabs < 1322771386 998519 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They appear to have a page, although the page may ultimately just say "OK, give these options to the tool", I haven't gone through the whole process yet. < 1322771391 552269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only tab-based indentation scheme anyone's advocated for years < 1322771421 944962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, I was planning to count tabs-for-indentation, spaces-for-alignment as pure-tabs < 1322771464 15659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are problems, such as if you want comments to line up in a correctly indented version of f(); /* comment */ if(x) { g(); /* comment */ h(); } < 1322771514 142739 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322771523 37444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye lambdabot < 1322771537 806197 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I generally dislike alignment < 1322771589 477412 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes alignment
< 1322771594 161068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION generally doesn't align too, but only because text sucks
< 1322771606 426153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty OCD about aligning things properly. < 1322771613 324487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to align multiple lines in ()s unless I can make the parentheses as large as the lines. < 1322771630 153553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: aligning things like assignments is usually Wrong, because you never want to look at it like a table < 1322771634 42190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about things like e.g. < 1322771638 961570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int f(int x, int y, ..., < 1322771643 230976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int z, ...) < 1322771645 861115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for declarations < 1322771646 40401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a Unicode character for flexible indentation < 1322771668 237764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: U+??? ELASTIC TABSTOP? < 1322771668 814992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, that's easy to align correctly < 1322771673 678743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I usually align assignments based on similarity of purpose... < 1322771678 678643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes! < 1322771679 626049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*???? < 1322771688 922728 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it easier to read when they're aligned. < 1322771700 105361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that they aren't reducible to a character, I think < 1322771705 642682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1322771706 776187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they are < 1322771733 430397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one problem with elastic tabstops is that they force some visual space < 1322771735 501785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can't do < 1322771737 978502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int f(int x, int y, ..., < 1322771738 161114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : int z, ...) < 1322771754 931596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to say that tabstops beyond the start of a line should have no space after their previous column < 1322771762 893598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use two spaces before eacht abstop if you want to space inline comments out < 1322771866 682851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but anyway, the tab character works for elastic tabstops as used in code < 1322771881 106019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since alignment should never really be semantically meaningful there, like it would be for a table, it degrades gracefully < 1322771931 189028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem is that the viewer would need to recognise it < 1322771946 331070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah; using elastic tabstops to view files with old-style tabs works fine too < 1322771946 899538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I often view code in things that aren't intended specifically for the purpose < 1322771965 219317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs at the beginning of the line still work fine, which is 99% of them < 1322771971 287850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you going to change the entire installbase of everything - browsers, email clients, IRC clients, etc - to interpret tabs as elastic? < 1322771978 956492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't have to? < 1322771984 348256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elastic tabstops gracefully degrade < 1322771999 921567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they don't, they line up the things you're elasticating wrong except at the start of a line < 1322772012 585540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, are too wide at the start of a line < 1322772033 931270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because believe it or not, the vast majority of software currently interprets tabs as 8 regardless of whether you think that's right or not < 1322772101 28196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (a) that doesn't matter much; being slightly uglier but still making sense is the /definition/ of graceful degradation (b) troll < 1322772144 987398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but what I mean is, the vast majority of software in existence has no reason to start interpreting tab as meaning something different < 1322772164 198129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you added it as a new Unicode character, though, they'd start interpreting it correctly over time < 1322772173 658845 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha! < 1322772176 523303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no they wouldn't < 1322772183 974834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Unicode support has got better over time, has it not? < 1322772196 598618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :elastic tabstops are algorithmically non-trivial < 1322772208 725177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, kerio's just started up with the ssh fanboyism again < 1322772232 527226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "programmers who have compilers fancy enough to do elastic tabstops" is very niche < 1322772323 711148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OTOH, the whole thing that drives development of most programs is what programmers want < 1322772333 672439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1322772343 389697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmm < 1322772346 33985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the falsest things you've ever said < 1322772350 754233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's saying something < 1322772351 192742 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :counterexample: Windows < 1322772361 130143 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :something no programmer wants < 1322772375 209786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I think I may be right if you don't allow for popularity < 1322772381 39315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programs are written by programmers < 1322772397 454787 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most" over such a large, varied space without some kind of filtering is ridiculous < 1322772558 762433 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322772594 152686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322772630 192406 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-43.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: :) < 1322772720 174025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1322772780 136729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION finally blocks Flash.
< 1322772823 527581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then... < 1322772828 509736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW WILL YOUTUBE? < 1322773030 312183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :through newfangles like html5 video, presumably < 1322773073 531866 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YouTube doesn't support HTML5 for all videos, I think < 1322773089 577058 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's a way to enable individual flash elements usually < 1322773101 689914 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I didn't think of that, I'd ask how elliott would Homestuck < 1322773286 344494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I use a different browser for YouTube (and other video sites) than I do from everything else < 1322773292 127394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the simplest solution < 1322773316 15957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322773328 589034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is having flash on by default really that big of a deal? < 1322773328 781165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are others, of course < 1322773337 914887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also have a third browser, for accessing Google-related sites) < 1322773374 139945 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is clearly the reincarnation of rube goldberg < 1322773375 193645 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well 99% of flash files are just for shitty ads < 1322773386 197792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah see I fix this by not having ads ever. < 1322773404 152305 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey PRIVMSG #esoteric :privoxy: making google chrome usable. < 1322773427 897099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I also have a /fourth/ browser for accessing programming language documentation, but that's more about convenience than privacy < 1322773431 644250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IE6, for testing sites in IE6 < 1322773578 797896 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use this magical thing called adblock < 1322773744 458994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it isn't magical; understanding it will make it better < 1322773751 803704 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I use it to block quite a few things that aren't adverts < 1322773752 78425 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott < 1322773759 548776 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a generic annoyance-blocker, for me < 1322773773 423429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the web < 1322773831 670989 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how and this whole time I thought it was voodoo < 1322773835 637962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/how/wow/ < 1322773851 82820 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote elliott < 1322773852 996069 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :188) elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. \ 191) elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. \ 200) elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! \ 209) Vorpal loves the sodomy. < 1322773869 712035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it basically blocks images or elements by URLs or URL+rules for locating it on a page (ID, etc) < 1322773885 446985 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor Gregor studying in such a fowl place < 1322773885 963502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, you see something that annoys you (particularly an image), you just right-click on it and tell adblock to get rid of it < 1322773905 816212 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what do you _mean_ i used that pun yesterday too?) < 1322773915 415496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, that indirectly reminds me of the day there was an enormous gas odoriser leak < 1322773925 765402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that caused a bit of chaos < 1322773988 967951 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know what gas odoriser is, but imagines it's something you add to odorless poisonous gas in order to make it noticable
< 1322773999 26842 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would explain the chaos < 1322774012 148343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not poisonous, it's added to methane < 1322774021 975559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because leaked methane is a huge fire risk < 1322774025 407787 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, explosive would work too < 1322774088 129556 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+e < 1322774166 918032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ....WOW REALLY? < 1322774168 436916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAD NO IDEA. < 1322774210 456782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole time I have been using AdBlock and had no clue how it operates, or the features it sports. < 1322774234 821002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I'd love this all to be non-sarcastic, but I can't imagine it is < 1322774284 531812 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole time I have been thinking kallisti only spoke in literally truth < 1322774289 170506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no I really am just as stupid as you think I am. :P < 1322774295 437330 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-ly < 1322774374 57842 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was under the impression that every statement on IRC was truthfully spoken. < 1322774410 363094 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah me too < 1322774424 518517 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking, isn't it < 1322774482 141871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am don't know what think < 1322774504 727150 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also everyone always use perfect grammar < 1322774504 925013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A new study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine said that men who put their penises in animals have a higher likelihood of penis cancer. " < 1322774509 604316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1322774537 913965 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who were the control group < 1322774539 810223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: cause or effect? < 1322774559 600481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: penis cancer increases the chance of bestiality, yes < 1322774567 942359 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you suggesting that people who develop penis cancer -- yes < 1322774570 731365 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what elliott said < 1322774574 562188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not /obviously/ false, right? < 1322774597 729219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A member of a pro-zoophilia group told The Huffington Post by email that the results of the study should prompt people to take precautions, like using a condom, when having sex with animals." < 1322774601 659323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :loooool < 1322774605 831029 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly this must be a proper study so it was obviously double-blind with neither the subject nor the experimenter knowing whether what they were fucking was an animal < 1322774606 136300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1322774618 641908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't cure penis cancer if you do it that way! < 1322774631 630638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, what proportion of each group was female? I think I've noticed a potential skew in the statistics < 1322774654 45836 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely this would have been noticed during peer review < 1322774662 502167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "men who" < 1322774668 363768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1322774669 185385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no no, neither the subject nor the experimenter knew whether they had penis cancer or not < 1322774682 326541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We think that the intense and long-term SWA [sex with animals] practice could produce micro-traumas in the human penile tissue. The genital mucus membranes of animals could have different characteristics from human genitalia, and the animals' secretions are probably different from human fluids. < 1322774688 295588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps animal tissues are less soft than ours, and non-human secretions would be toxic for us." < 1322774700 501513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :pleasant imagery < 1322774700 912216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: unfortunately many of the experimentors later died of this, having not received treatment < 1322774716 540622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SWA practice < 1322774723 248266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just gotta go < 1322774724 882339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :practice my SWAs < 1322774752 410558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perhaps animal tissues are less soft than ours" <-- this is false, see: toilet paper advets < 1322774753 356509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :adverts < 1322774756 659719 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers reading about fruit flies, or something, and I forget the exact details, but the male's semen could become toxic to the females
< 1322774761 411574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SWA? < 1322774767 127721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :puppies and koalas have soft tissues too < 1322774768 624186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googled for: mucus membrane goat vagina chemicals
< 1322774771 55574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "We think that the intense and long-term SWA [sex with animals] practice could produce micro-traumas in the human penile tissue. The genital mucus membranes of animals could have different characteristics from human genitalia, and the animals' secretions are probably different from human fluids. < 1322774777 598728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322774789 230038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo remembers reading about fruit flies, or something, and I forget the exact details, but the male's semen could become toxic to the females < 1322774796 596896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo googled for: xxx fruit fly 18 or over < 1322774807 892721 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ................ < 1322774813 209575 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that was such a horrible joke. < 1322774820 247312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1322774821 148728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're such a horrible joke < 1322774827 732868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fruit flies rarely live to 18 < 1322774832 992863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crossed the so-horrible-it's-good coundary < 1322774833 651306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking of saying that < 1322774836 473955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes coundary < 1322774839 671122 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall that non-human mammals have barbed penises but this would be more a problem for bestial women, obviously < 1322774852 919869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was actually going to make a joke along those lines earlier, but didn't have a good opportunity < 1322774855 639703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not a universal thing < 1322774858 53658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for giving me one < 1322774864 415633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1322774869 192332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know cats in particular have those. < 1322774879 253162 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i vaguely thought nearly all mammals did < 1322774890 842602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas snails copulate by stabbing each other in the neck < 1322774926 450302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also some humans. < 1322774930 160980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hmmm maybe < 1322774939 892871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, snail bestality doesn't sound like fun < 1322774952 911437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think it's common in mammals anyway < 1322774999 286390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, now I have a huge urge to reference the hedgehog song < 1322775005 679802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I will, and see who catches the reference < 1322775021 353277 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i cannot be bothered at all? < 1322775050 30104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, the original was a bit more vulgar, but that's close enough < 1322775064 438547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: apparently the lack of a certain gene removes barbed penises and results in larger brains? or something? < 1322775079 178933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was that the reference? < 1322775088 558476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on another note, I love the way that the standard way to indicate that you get a reference is to make a different obscure reference to the same thing) < 1322775099 827682 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, i only know it from some discworld books where it may have been bowdlerized < 1322775104 711192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1322775127 11386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm referencing the discworld books too, but it almost certainly /was/ bowdlerized in your version < 1322775134 382570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that seems more likely than antibowdlerizing it in mine < 1322775146 861585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://www.lspace.org/fandom/songs/hedgehogsong.html < 1322775156 987699 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_or_ i may simply have misrembered the words < 1322775163 200922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I take it you searched rather than having the link mesmerized? < 1322775178 795581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My brain actually stores everything in URL form. < 1322775182 238175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance that previous line was < 1322775193 822724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ais523.elliott.i.take.it/you/searched?rather=than&having=the#link,mesmerized < 1322775196 107697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus points if you give a link to the logs for that line? < 1322775199 866317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, boring < 1322775200 60204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what mesmerification has to do with it though. < 1322775210 322599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I never said they were /useful/ URLs < 1322775312 963168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if that URL is valid, but don't want to click it just in case it is < 1322775315 742733 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: _or_ humans just improved on the bonobo culture by making it less painful < 1322775319 710605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take.it is almost certainly a valid domain < 1322775333 397645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1322775334 535785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 404 < 1322775335 684032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't say much about what it does with subdomains it doesn't recognise < 1322775339 612549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 - Questa pagina non esiste o è stata rinominata < 1322775341 68696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 seems reasonable < 1322775347 383068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take.it is 403 :( < 1322775354 753045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who 403s their homepage? < 1322775358 693290 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonobo-style, we're not their descendants... < 1322775364 612900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(besides, how do you log in if the homepage is 403?) < 1322775374 41798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you aren't using HTTP auth?) < 1322775381 562541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: log in to /what/? < 1322775388 935130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: whatever causes it to stop 403ing < 1322775396 634205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, one presumes < 1322775402 501440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most common 403 reason is lack of auth, isn't it? < 1322775407 572408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322775411 690507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't 403 an important page like a homepage unless there's some way to view it < 1322775414 505 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most common 403 reason is someone put 403 there < 1322775418 731490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop people viewing it < 1322775423 934249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a subdirectory that isn't meant to be web-exposed < 1322775433 82339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but that doesn't apply to the homepage itself < 1322775437 478983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like internal files for some web application that exists in the web root < 1322775481 445576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but they're unlikely to be called index.html < 1322775490 83589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: URLS should be graph-based instead of strictly trees. < 1322775501 432545 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what that means exactly. < 1322775538 631083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes that is exactly 1 possibility in a set of infinite possibilities < 1322775543 91114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so not very likely < 1322775546 1378 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION good math
< 1322775565 409767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABSTRACTION IS HARD < 1322775584 274827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if the probability really is 1/infinity, the likelihood can still be quite high < 1322775594 453036 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CONCRETE IS ALSO HARD < 1322775602 407891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for likelihood, just think probability except that you multiply everything by infinity to get it back into non-infinitesimal units) < 1322775608 642674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it's more complicated than that, but it always is, right?) < 1322775627 841908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..wat < 1322775647 48478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ordinary probabilities add to 1, right? < 1322775648 624267 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott isn't asking you to kick me, i'm disappoint < 1322775651 608432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likelihoods integrate to 1 < 1322775662 500182 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you just making stuff up < 1322775662 713069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought concrete was more tough than hard < 1322775665 326250 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that an actual thing. < 1322775665 814603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no < 1322775674 656302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a perfectly plausible thing < 1322775678 763530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for, say, probability distributions < 1322775683 345703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which return reals < 1322775684 52662 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but do people call them likelihoods < 1322775689 661451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chance of getting any particular real is 0 < 1322775690 848873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is just, a... continuous probability distribution. < 1322775705 832797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that name is used for them sometimes; I've heard "probability density" too, but it's a boring name < 1322775750 660323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right well it's meaningless to talk about the probability of a single real in a continuous distribution < 1322775782 293475 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the measure has atoms < 1322775803 29026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/atoms/discrete units/ < 1322775822 279367 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well atom is the term usually used in ergodic theory < 1322775834 729364 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably measure theory < 1322775839 680413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :........... < 1322775842 429235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergodic? < 1322775853 538967 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lebesgue space ftw < 1322775854 521074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likelihood_function < 1322775855 34607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously you have to making that up. -googles- oh, no. < 1322775858 399182 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322775872 812405 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :mathematician < 1322775874 947428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky ~]$ grep -r s2w . < 1322775875 126404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :./.bash_history:grep -r map_s2w . < 1322775875 126585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong directory < 1322775884 430710 :mathematician!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope this clears things up < 1322775898 617334 :mathematician!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :flyingdick < 1322775910 873987 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is better thought < 1322775912 533226 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1322775947 527528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1322776003 489502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1322776054 764936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flf < 1322776061 361243 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :flyingdick: oh my, I didn't realize your credentials. Excuse me for thinking (read: joking about how) ergodic sounds like a made up thing. < 1322776063 586544 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :f|f|f < 1322776075 745065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha at whatever font you're using < 1322776076 592684 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1322776078 592286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that was deliberate < 1322776079 15482 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're lucky i didn't kick you out of here < 1322776081 146410 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole < 1322776084 909109 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just < 1322776086 568032 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1322776092 261488 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no i just need glasses, obviously < 1322776092 589586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why doesn't oklopol have op powers < 1322776093 405851 :flyingdick!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :oklopl < 1322776094 879104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way that could go badly < 1322776097 100248 :oklopl!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi NICK :oklopol < 1322776101 168601 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i was kind of a dick there < 1322776112 783397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :oklopl < 1322776117 549698 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think i should have op powers < 1322776120 332038 :oklopl!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322776124 417868 :oklopl!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1322776130 111865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but seriously though give oklopol op powers < 1322776131 78784 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would kick everyone who doesn't blindly accept everything i say < 1322776145 653376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /msg chanserv #esoteric op oklopol, thanks < 1322776148 414460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if they're right < 1322776148 896283 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott just likes to find excuses to kick me indirectly. < 1322776155 965241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would he want to kick you < 1322776161 736212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's.... what < 1322776164 273848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even a question < 1322776177 843098 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322776185 285032 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT ELLIOTT DOES. < 1322776186 17126 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322776188 393749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like an axiom. < 1322776197 537309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if there were a typeclass called WantsKick < 1322776200 760001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti is so paranoid < 1322776201 761543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be like < 1322776210 187428 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance WantsKick Elliott Kallisti < 1322776213 414132 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wants to kick us and hear the lamentations of our women, that just goes with the evil overlord thing < 1322776223 825123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't _have_ women. < 1322776230 680333 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :details. < 1322776248 289912 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some here do. < 1322776262 526753 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some here are actually _married_, unless they've been lying. < 1322776366 913397 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322776371 239651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd say the pairing graph for #esoteric is mostly edgeless. < 1322776436 296335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the area of graph theory in mathematics, a signed graph is a graph in which each edge has a positive or negative sign. < 1322776439 285152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1322776450 146841 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign this graph, please < 1322776465 541839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... but no zero edge? < 1322776480 873501 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GRAPHLANG HAS A ZERO SIGN < 1322776485 598356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... whatever the sign of zero is. < 1322776490 780135 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in graph edge form. < 1322776507 480185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :past edge = -, present edge = 0, future edge = + < 1322776509 426231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1322776531 844639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, w2s can go eventually but we need it for now; s2w is used in multiple cases... < 1322776548 496605 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't really want _two_ functions to do the same thing < 1322776643 444977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought the Haskell slogan was "there's more than one function to do it" < 1322776651 922751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not haskell < 1322776694 767880 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah haskell only has the bare minimum, like map, fmap, (.), liftA, liftM and (<$>). < 1322776706 462397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is (.) like map/fmap? < 1322776718 241980 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (e ->) instance < 1322776721 56109 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) < 1322776721 865144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1322776731 423322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless caleskell < 1322776744 754163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :calemeriskell < 1322776785 649031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought (.) was function composition; is that a special case of a general definition? < 1322776793 312549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: updelskell < 1322776818 252646 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, when have I ever trolled you about updates? < 1322776840 805888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why would you confuse yourself with me? < 1322776844 882961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly I am doing the trolling. < 1322776853 646520 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eiieojwoiiwoijwoijeoiwjow < 1322776855 773585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322776861 306604 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish I knew why you were doing it < 1322776878 306140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's because I love you. :3 < 1322776880 554835 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's cale's idea of letting lambdabot have generalized versions of standard functions < 1322776888 81402 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (++) < 1322776888 906174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall m. (Monoid m) => m -> m -> m < 1322776892 183192 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip < 1322776892 998340 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1322776906 385788 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: friendship troll < 1322776912 534454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1322776926 440959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ on Monoids disturbs me < 1322776932 965259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1322776945 396365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(++) should obviously be generalised to monoids < 1322776946 450117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because the monoid version of ++ is mostly just coincidence that append is the most appropriate operation on lists < 1322776955 856211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, agreed; I just disagree with ++ being the name for that < 1322776963 216895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why < 1322776963 961863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then you disagree, and misread my statement < 1322776964 377633 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what it was like in haskell 1.4, i think, or maybe it was MonadPlus. < 1322776964 615915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great. < 1322776972 159254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was MonadPlus < 1322776981 283880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would rather remove (++) and make (<>) the monoid operation
< 1322776986 819761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd be fine with that < 1322777003 860391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ could be MonadPlus and <> could be Monoid < 1322777011 534622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? < 1322777015 461440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (++) doesn't inherently mean append. < 1322777019 642067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just two symbols. < 1322777023 214586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, perhaps < 1322777032 846353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: MonadPlus needs to go away < 1322777043 145239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml uses @ for list append (and its operators aren't polymorphic), I was interesting that it had a one-char name for something that specific < 1322777049 63362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I disagree, we should have two more of them, and two more Monoids < 1322777056 79302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess it's nice to have with MonadZero, which is nice because you don't need a constraint per a < 1322777074 374573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you was interesting? < 1322777078 660196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also n-parameter monoids, for monoids with two type parameters and more. < 1322777084 337152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: interested < 1322777093 29386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, *you were interesting? < 1322777102 763275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you was definitely interesting < 1322777105 383594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar transformations of bad grammar has rules! < 1322777144 497849 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar of bad grammar < 1322777250 718715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *have < 1322777286 435144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, I Muphried myself somewhat there < 1322777295 580942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange, as I mostly don't get caught in Muphry's Law < 1322777301 842928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322777346 702319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, youtube redesigned < 1322777349 397830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything's so different < 1322777355 614311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monoid < 1322777357 324364 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoids are just categories with a single object. < 1322777360 160187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, oops, i was trying to make it incorrect < 1322777389 152229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they've... Facebookitized it. < 1322777394 926718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1322777395 418043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what, /again/? < 1322777417 701398 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're using a similar layout to what facebookuses < 1322777424 546945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrome users: is chrome adblock or adblock plus for chrome better? < 1322777428 67926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can either block youtube video ads? < 1322777444 569127 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe adblock plus can < 1322777455 23489 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno anything about chrome adblock < 1322777457 947824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but adblock plus works fine. < 1322777464 263583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just called "adblock" < 1322777464 745307 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes forget the internet has ads. < 1322777475 427474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more popular than adblock plus, though probably only because it's older < 1322777491 802181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc adblock plus is the most popular extension for any browser < 1322777495 190959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh wait... < 1322777496 913733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the codebase is different for chrome, so :P < 1322777500 18279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I'm using Adblock apparently < 1322777514 869850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: right. not the same thing, it rides on having a similar name to the unrelated Firefox extension... < 1322777522 467181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adblock Plus is the official port < 1322777527 159204 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322777545 992860 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which is better. < 1322777552 23341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I just wondered. < 1322777609 815279 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322777642 23081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1322777644 723108 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322777647 308452 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never did figure out where to put that patch < 1322777650 751247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like adblock plus uses the same filtering engine as the firefox version's < 1322777652 47852 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what patch < 1322777659 156566 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Dungeons of Drednor < 1322777687 874736 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/dno/dmo/ < 1322777715 408416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: reviews for Adblock Plus seem to suggest that it is better < 1322777716 973299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine that. < 1322777722 73163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1322777737 883366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry, but i thinks it works fine. I have NO adds on any site. and it is still much faster than addblock! adblock (that without plus) slows down every webpage i visit. ABP ist still "the same" like adthwart (only the laughing devil i miss :) )" ;; this person seems too stupid to trust < 1322777739 196634 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6 < 1322777772 73638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it seems better < 1322777773 57451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs
< 1322777776 311844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322777787 29732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a good thing you consulted an expert opinion < 1322777793 606080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :better against the adds < 1322777817 312814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Block ads inside YouTube videos" yay < 1322777847 427804 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322777880 53750 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both more or less use the same filters. < 1322777888 985986 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though Adblock seems to have more foreign language filters in the checklist < 1322777895 276140 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHAINSAW EVERYONE AND CHAINSAW EVERYTHING < 1322777905 251149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i agree, someone op oklopol < 1322777906 903289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: op oklopol < 1322777909 172313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: op oklopol < 1322777938 386604 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well really i deserve ops, i've been here longer than anyone else < 1322777940 343820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just because someone's stupid doesn't mean they're wrong < 1322777972 585913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: very true, but they don't seem articulate enough about their technical experience to have judged it correctly < 1322777988 576368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, so if they're right, it's by chance < 1322777991 335451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Sorry, but i thinks it works fine." seems to imply it's a reaction to a negative review, which makes me trust it less < 1322778077 98483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You use vim, right < 1322778084 353786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I do indeed < 1322778101 495063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: do you move with vikeys or numpad? < 1322778103 491700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: What indentation style do you use < 1322778111 129656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: vim does numpad? < 1322778124 530491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, numpad has arrow keys without numlock < 1322778126 897 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: usually arrow keys :> < 1322778128 13743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't go diagonally though < 1322778135 115317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the discussion came up in #nethack recently, and someone said they used numpad for vim but vikeys for nethack < 1322778151 198906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322778155 998757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :joking, surely? < 1322778159 378258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: olsner: What indentation style do you use < 1322778173 722675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think so < 1322778188 239762 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use tabs as though there spaces. < 1322778190 886914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was kerio ssh-fanboying about, btw? < 1322778194 148819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so usually 8 tabs per indent < 1322778198 400531 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... sw=4 ts=4 sts=4 noet cinoptions={0,:0,t0,g0,^0,e0,n0,p2s,(2s,f0 cinkeys=0{,0},0),:,0#,!^F,o,O,e < 1322778205 817814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, that was a non-vim question :) < 1322778210 991062 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's the relevant part of my vimrc for indentation style < 1322778223 188819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help vim scares me. < 1322778226 569007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim scares me more than emacs. < 1322778230 631299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually know at least one person, probably more, who's a casual vim fanboy (think offhand Emacs-bashing and using vim at every opportunity) yet spends their time moving around with the arrows in insert mode < 1322778251 967024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and asking if there was an ssh port for the amiga, when the topic came up about how good it was at playing nethack < 1322778259 652951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can yell at them for you, if you'd like < 1322778270 941318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic's changed, unfortunately < 1322778274 883116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could yell at him on general principles < 1322778275 62085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1322778275 378047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I actually know at least one person, probably more, who's a casual vim fanboy (think offhand Emacs-bashing and using vim at every opportunity) yet spends their time moving around with the arrows in insert mode < 1322778280 270297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322778282 560832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's real-life knowing < 1322778287 462197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have to come to Birmingham < 1322778288 277984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1322778289 751044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my condolences < 1322778293 151804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do quite a bit of arrow-moving in Emacs when I probably could avoid it sometimes. < 1322778296 969812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adds to "list of reasons to avoid birmingham"
< 1322778303 422401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh < 1322778305 442535 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322778329 164567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person I have in mind is my other boss (I have two part-time jobs, he's the boss for half the teaching one rather than Dan who's the boss for the other half + the PhD) < 1322778335 854056 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322778352 298440 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-208-78.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1322778362 266466 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: dredmor time < 1322778384 245614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is Dredmor good enough that I should buy it, I wonder? opinions of the channel? < 1322778386 695763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how much time is left? < 1322778404 357361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh and google has once again changed < 1322778415 421610 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I never learned what the style is called < 1322778419 339584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I haven't played it yet, but have you played any introversion games? < 1322778423 421959 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the one with braces on their own lines and unindented, tab indented, tabs at 4 spaces (obv. works fine for other tab widths...) < 1322778428 671125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure; probably not < 1322778435 45834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Any alignment? < 1322778437 699055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I've played one without mentally noting the developer, which is possible < 1322778437 878031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Buy it < 1322778438 547199 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: gross < 1322778449 606842 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I just indent continuations by one or two indents < 1322778455 487117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I prefer the open brace on the same line as the statement < 1322778461 955162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Uplink is amazing, Darwinia is meant to be even more amazing but I haven't played it yet, DEFCON is cool < 1322778468 227281 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: DID YOU SEND A PAPER TO STACS < 1322778476 343526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't think so < 1322778478 792253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 5 days are left < 1322778492 328796 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.70 QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1322778500 846705 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know stacs? i suppose it might be for more theoretical stuff than yours < 1322778511 325970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gah, they sent me an email in Markdown, that's almost enough to boycott them < 1322778513 802022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't < 1322778524 209805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, Markdown was intended to be suitable for emails < 1322778528 125975 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1322778543 700157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but who did? < 1322778548 668930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Humble Bundle < 1322778555 757674 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it would be cool if df allowed you to have more control over how your soldiers fight < 1322778556 873396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and () around URLs is just so ugly < 1322778559 321318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION receives those as HTML mail
< 1322778562 405057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe with like... scripts. < 1322778567 568719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why you use the alternate link syntax < 1322778570 136218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple declarative scripts < 1322778575 313183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that one was using []() < 1322778576 223061 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have I answered your question now? :) < 1322778579 356695 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can turn on and off. like "fighting styles" < 1322778583 456658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is /that/ enough of a reason to hate the email? < 1322778584 226094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, unfortuantely it means you're useless < 1322778591 703678 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1322778623 99074 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes! he said I'm useless < 1322778660 17768 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner you know you alright. < 1322778664 232796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless sounds fun when you pronounce the use as though it were the verb use < 1322778673 705057 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yooze instead of yoose. < 1322778690 34243 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also different emphasis < 1322778701 334999 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322778704 770700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I know! < 1322778708 433420 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322778713 835281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, seems that Amazon is memorizing my credit card number too < 1322778724 694694 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what use did you hope to have of me? < 1322778726 821214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /addition/ to running no security checks on the card number < 1322778729 186967 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well isn't that nice, you don't have to give it to them every time < 1322778732 271482 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it just /really/ wants everything to be convenient for you doesn't it? < 1322778740 755583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, debit card < 1322778748 37469 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if you used tabs-for-indentation-spaces-for-alignment and vim < 1322778765 199115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's reasonable from Amazon's point of view, but not from the bank's < 1322778770 596712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use all-spaces, out of habit from my Python days. < 1322778783 484568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fuck the bank. :P < 1322778785 891612 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you also don't use vim afaik < 1322778796 328867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what makes vim important here? < 1322778798 903683 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've only seen alignmentism together with fundamentalist spaceism < 1322778809 24485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you don't know < 1322778822 589360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow you have amazing deduction skills. < 1322778919 423944 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I believe it has become DS9 time again < 1322778925 439512 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is "alignmentism" kind of like "being really OCD about aligning things"? < 1322778928 723212 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm that. < 1322778959 80227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might switch to tabs though. it makes more sense to me. < 1322778975 30565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab-indents with spaces for alignment < 1322778976 330746 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: something like that yes < 1322779000 148268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm also considering boycotting Introversion for making every single image on their webpage set a cookie < 1322779045 6823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh no, not cookies < 1322779063 174638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there is no reason to set a cookie in more than one image from the same domain in a page < 1322779077 229099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it aggravates people who approve/disapprove all cookies manually < 1322779082 344125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I too am really concerned about this common nearly unavoidable feature of modern websites. < 1322779092 673152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe you shouldn't do that. that sounds terrible. < 1322779094 873373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: cookies can be useful, when they have a reason to exist < 1322779108 996809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, basically every webpage starts with you clicking a bunch of dialogs right? < 1322779114 293844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only sensible use of setting a cookie in an image that I've seen is Wikimedia's cross-site logon thing, though < 1322779122 324057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: far from every, maybe about 5-10% < 1322779133 22120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them are well-designed cookie-wise, and only require a couple of allow/deny < 1322779154 74403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot of sites set two cookies then modify one; I think it's some sort of anti-bot mechanism < 1322779223 458883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, Uplink's premise seems very mindlessly destructive < 1322779233 822383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the Introversion advertising just implies to me "this is not the sort of game ais523 would enjoy" < 1322779247 847527 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has never once looked at the advertising.
< 1322779267 888857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has adblock installed in his brain.
< 1322779292 193056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I go to the mall, then the people trying to advertise stores just disappear when they start talking to me. < 1322779306 848564 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say only 99% is mindless destruction < 1322779312 16593 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I don't actually go to the mall, but it's happened before) < 1322779321 447864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, Darwinia is one of the best-reviewed games I've ever heard of, if that means anything < 1322779327 484524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322779327 867167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: best game ever is magicka < 1322779334 672542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'd prefer to trust reviewers I trust < 1322779340 532655 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it safe to say that 1% of Uplink is NOT mindless destruction? < 1322779349 529701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought Advance Wars based entirely on the recommendation of Teletext's computer game review column < 1322779355 400189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then went and bought all its sequels < 1322779357 879352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :magicka is 100% careful deliberate mindless destruction < 1322779360 201735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uplink would be hard to play if you just mindlessly destroyed thinsg. < 1322779367 735475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally people who want files stolen don't want you just to trash a machine. < 1322779378 720645 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm in particular referring to plot < 1322779381 320299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, is it safe to say that 1% of Uplink is NOT mindless destruction? < 1322779400 524401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Umm, not the Arunmor storyline? < 1322779402 107201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is typing. < 1322779405 150275 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more than possible to go through the game having never deleted anything, although I think the story does require it. < 1322779411 463178 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was referring to that in particular < 1322779418 198032 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Half the plot" = 1% of the game < 1322779445 637425 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR that the Arunmor storyline requires at least one destructive attack. < 1322779453 28098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't you know that plot is only like 2% of a game? < 1322779474 867867 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there you go. Half the plot, minus a bit, is not mindless destruction < 1322779495 815524 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1322779503 788546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :magicka is probably better than uplink < 1322779509 305584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, even if the /idea/ is mindless destruction, the gameplay isn't < 1322779510 53869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I base this on my extensive knowlege of uplink < 1322779512 979306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not really) < 1322779516 331321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, no it doesn't. < 1322779562 968563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires that you destroy Arunmor's ISM as a false flag operation, but that's hardly mindless destruction. < 1322779573 969866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAH SPOILERS EVERYTHING IS RUINED < 1322779601 440040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, hardly any of Uplink is mindless destruction. < 1322779619 827406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like even Andromeda hire you to FUCK SHIT UP. < 1322779658 365692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah they do, they just think the shit is pernicious. < 1322779725 904683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, Darwinia is extremely good. < 1322779745 392372 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even seem to get started with Darwinia < 1322779755 857381 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sucks at Darwinia. Can barely do the tutorial
< 1322779768 444833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't make it through Garden? < 1322779771 993431 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1322779788 418488 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The level which consists of "create squad, right click until virii are gone." < 1322779810 752462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't ever play starcraft. < 1322779911 804401 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The virii keep killing my squad < 1322779932 71808 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took a while before I worked out that I needed to make a squad < 1322779942 790479 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is easily amused by the Darwinia intros
< 1322779948 276042 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, did you know that there are these things called ranged attacks. < 1322779966 919043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use them to pick the virii off before they get near enough to damage your squad. < 1322780022 983386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: real-time strategy? < 1322780037 69689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of a mixture, I suppose. < 1322780059 569451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwinian control is RTS, but I still haven't reached the point where that's meant to come in. < 1322780068 107814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just came up with the worst game idea ever: Mario Party MMO < 1322780093 989235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, it's kind of a top-down shooter thing? < 1322780133 662925 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that playing Darwinia windowed is not feasible
< 1322780212 967377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a mixture with which? < 1322780230 931632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there's a game mode in Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver which is pretty much exactly that < 1322780231 753793 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay wireless headphones < 1322780234 33306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with Pokémon instead < 1322780235 504186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top-down shooter thing. < 1322780249 481982 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I managed fine. < 1322780270 224483 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you directly control squads by left clicking on destinations and right clicking to fire. < 1322780302 270514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, like an RTS except requiring more micromanagement < 1322780307 692885 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You control Darwinians by promoting one of them to an officer, and controlling that through a similar method to a squad, except all the commands tell the Darwinians where to go. < 1322780331 562327 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really; it's designed so you only use one squad at a time. < 1322780356 469894 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have autofire, but it's basically useless. < 1322780381 429116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, my TV Tropes links-clicked-per-page rate is now sufficiently below 1 that I can never stay there very long < 1322780418 691695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, probably the best way to see what the gameplay's like is just to play the first level, which is short and extremely easy if you're not Sgeo. < 1322780427 60819 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1322780427 414540 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which mode is the mario party mmo? < 1322780428 95985 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322780431 217475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd mean downloading and installign and running the game < 1322780440 708670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is there a way to stop vim from creating the .swp files < 1322780444 906970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh, I've forgotten what it's called, but it has Poké Floats in it < 1322780447 995243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep getting OMG SWAP FILE when i open a vim < 1322780454 274608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's pretty much exactly how starcraft works. left click to move right click to fire. < 1322780473 188742 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a smash bros stage < 1322780496 90504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I know, it's based on the Pokémon game mode (all smash bros stages but final destination are references to /something/) < 1322780531 664352 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hanenbow I don't think is a reference to anything in the Nintendo universe. < 1322780539 485052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's kind of a special stage. < 1322780548 971045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, just to nitpick, Battlefield isn't based on anything. < 1322780594 314257 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind < 1322780602 559692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hanenbow (pronounced Hay-nin-bow) is a new unlockable stage in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. It comes from a music-themed Nintendo DS game, which features extensive interactivity with the microphone; called Electroplankton. < 1322780618 709979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: found it: Wi-fi Plaza < 1322780628 169585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Wi-Fi_Plaza < 1322780703 895078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I hate booleans < 1322780722 693599 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use Maybe () instead? < 1322780739 955606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use const and flip const instead. < 1322780740 431634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322780743 744542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better. < 1322780746 330477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are just church booleans! < 1322780750 873009 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN BETTER < 1322780834 204032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, use 1 and 2 then, and make it arbitrary which is true and which is false depending on what you want to use them for < 1322780846 708280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1322780850 813628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are all just different representations of booleans ;P < 1322780851 781888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1322780868 214226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, then, use 01XLHWU- < 1322780880 805712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've probably forgotten a possible value there < 1322780882 146261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use Maybe Bool instead < 1322780882 931861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ulimit -v command can be used with ASan-ified binaries. However, you should remember that ASan consumes 16 terabytes of virtual memory for shadow state and the ulimit -v value should be set accordingly." < 1322780893 178377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: three-value logic ftw < 1322780906 661309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or use integers for many-valued logic!!! < 1322780909 721595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: VHDL std_logic beats three-value logic out the water < 1322780925 802506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it models error conditions for booleans as well as the usual values 0 and 1 < 1322780934 108291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and Z < 1322780938 105585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :01XLHWZU- < 1322780939 555525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1322780941 673585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nine-valued booleans < 1322780945 327395 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also unknown < 1322780952 241173 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's U, one presumes < 1322780981 774653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite; U means unknown state at power on, - means a value that's being disregarded (i.e. don't know and don't care) < 1322780992 300377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either is a reasonable description of unknown < 1322781071 35995 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are any of them mu? < 1322781078 426484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mu is a !boolean < 1322781094 49474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you solve the halting problem you can just use terminate and non-terminate < 1322781108 165886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's another representation of a boolean! < 1322781115 48144 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, it's not boolean, that's why it's included~ < 1322781123 891866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure I understand what you want to replace booleans with then. < 1322781124 324275 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should be. < 1322781124 503338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: nope, the problem with mu is that it unasks the question, and the hardware equivalent would be sending electrons in the other direction < 1322781136 283852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that typically, electrons flow one way for true and the other way for false < 1322781149 214564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ONLY TYPICALLY!!! < 1322781160 562342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I never even said I wanted to, I just said I hate booleans < 1322781222 269510 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought mu was more just "your question is stupid presumes something that is wrong". < 1322781231 292935 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322781236 963744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your grammar is stupid presumes something that is wrong :D < 1322781240 494870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The most important thing to remember is: Don't Panic. Or at least, panic at your leisure. < 1322781246 595478 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers a post on Less Wrong
< 1322781286 984563 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322781292 586408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude I just figured out natural language < 1322781300 974706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically you use a clever evaluation strategy. < 1322781316 658375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: "your mom" evaluates to the value "your mom" < 1322781328 555962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can then be composed with other expressions < 1322781340 945995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is annoying < 1322781354 416956 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lesswrong.com/lw/po/three_dialogues_on_identity/ < 1322781362 731921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quick, should I worry about a duplicate hashtable lookup? < 1322781382 906924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nah it's still O(1) < 1322781385 693747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if you're not using a cryptosecure hash, yes < 1322781392 307242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:P) < 1322781395 8056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're going to get collisions in practice < 1322781405 511806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, wait, what? < 1322781407 308671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OK to use an inefficient resolution mechanism unless you have a very small hashtable, though < 1322781421 239594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think anyone uses cryptohashes for hash tables < 1322781427 768165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322781430 216803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you never know, with enough memory/disk space you /could/ < 1322781453 348083 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322781456 265054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure you haven't misread my statement? < 1322781456 586069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for something like git/sg's stores by hash, it makes sense < 1322781459 276826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1322781466 810033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try looking at it again < 1322781478 907838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having difficulty parsing "duplicate hashtable lookup" < 1322781503 989546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka two identical hashtable lookups to do one operation < 1322781641 899028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, I killed the wrong chromium proecss < 1322781764 18137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can recover, right? < 1322781777 445752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was the root one < 1322781830 306173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if Firefox gets accidentally killed, even the whole thing, it can go back to the point it was at upon restart < 1322781842 422142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :often with a confirmation in case one of the pages crashes it again < 1322781845 948497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can chrome < 1322781857 925748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I was referring to, I'd be shocked if Chrome couldn't < 1322782030 578868 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322782030 961881 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-46-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1322782031 140767 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322782100 866820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pls reassure me that hashtable lookups are fast < 1322782114 272770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're almost as fast as array lookups on modern processors < 1322782169 966049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that's one, two, three, four, five -- five array lookups in total!! five duplicated array lookups! < 1322782210 937044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, I wouldn't have expected /you/ to reference Sesame Street < 1322782235 650003 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that even aired in the UK? < 1322782238 955289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which was recentishly in the news because someone hacked their YouTube channel to show hardcore porn) < 1322782241 753090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed, on Channel 4 < 1322782251 930938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wasn't doing it intentionally, but I think there was some kind of ... subconscious resonant recognition before he hit enter.
< 1322782267 4773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually counting them out. < 1322782279 552203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: doesn't sesame street air /everywhere/? (also, "was"?) < 1322782299 236556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure if it still airs nowadays in the UK < 1322782302 986228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I haven't checked for years < 1322782364 50653 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Eh, could be. I'm not in the habit of monitoring where children's programming is aired. < 1322782399 923944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* relies on implementation-defined arithmetic shift behaviour */ < 1322782400 102984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I leave comments for things like this but gleefully name new types foo_t < 1322782534 379985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool world_handle_chunk(jint x0, jint y0, jint z0, jint xs, jint ys, jint zs, struct buffer zb, struct buffer zb_meta, struct buffer zb_light_blocks, struct buffer zb_light_sky, bool update_map); < 1322782540 994147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't help but feel this function needs a few more parameters. < 1322782594 577371 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bool world_handle_chunk(struct world_handle_chunk_args); There you go. < 1322782594 830215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why is it never called with the last parameter set to false... < 1322782605 259801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's fewer! < 1322782638 184204 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you can call it with world_handle_chunk((struct world_handle_chunk_args){ ... }) < 1322782650 547132 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pointless unless you want a lot of things to be 0, of course) < 1322783009 350540 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322783149 426537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322783213 570925 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322784186 499333 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322784397 342853 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322785107 568988 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322785229 398053 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin_ < 1322785270 782218 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322785275 144397 :copumpkin_!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1322785901 716059 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322786359 308660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sends an email that pikhq will see without sending an email to pikhq.
< 1322786537 899599 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a public mailing list? < 1322786667 371933 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1322786674 459160 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw said email. < 1322786929 586283 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322786937 625754 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1322786970 811399 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322787212 127250 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322787217 846828 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-230-150.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322787594 715153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: ENJOY HAVING YOUR EYEBALLS ACCOSTED WITH WORDS < 1322787679 119180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: How do I run a subcommand in Perl safely, without running into shell interpolation problems < 1322789032 471121 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1322789194 332675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, someone asked to become admin on the wiki who ISN'T Timwi :P < 1322790777 49372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wow, skyrim depends on steam even when bought in-store? < 1322790891 74489 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I thought Valve was the only group that pulled that. < 1322790898 102037 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/group/company/ < 1322792624 952237 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/11536/11813483.jpg XD (translit: "hajimemasite"tte? NIHONGO JŌZU translat: "Nice to meet you"? *You're good at Japanese!*) < 1322793050 664116 :allanpes12!~allan100v@189-31-4-115.cbace702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1322793061 693603 :allanpes12!~allan100v@189-31-4-115.cbace702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br QUIT :Client Quit < 1322793260 380773 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e0d5.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322793293 440460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1322793299 115089 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322793701 122245 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1322796685 284040 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322796685 338655 :glogbot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322796686 773609 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322796688 107390 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric > 1322796689 908545 JOIN :#esoteric > 1322796690 424328 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322796698 438434 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1322796711 333506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Gregor Makes me kinda nervous that glogbackup parts before glogbot joins. < 1322796712 71828 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322796771 88366 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: glogbackup parts once glogbot joins #glogbot, which is the first one it joins. < 1322796771 722331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1322796792 351929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, but people could still talk before glogbot rejoins every channel :P < 1322796793 238961 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1322796794 4619 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 1m 22s ago: Makes me kinda nervous that glogbackup parts before glogbot joins. < 1322796801 259807 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fair 'nuff *shrugs* < 1322796881 618151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let's call the flag -Ewarn, by analogy with -Werror." < 1322796925 571547 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh, is this some imaginary flag that converts /errors/ into /warnings/ (a concept which doesn't even make sense)? < 1322796969 626744 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also solves the halting problem and summons bacon. < 1322796995 874647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. A flag that is actually being implemented in GHC :P < 1322797005 828081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :More specifically, it turns certain kinds of type errors into warnings + runtime errors. < 1322797009 393940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For debugging. < 1322797035 804492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that quote was even a joke, and it was by one of the Simons (I forget which by now), so it might even be called that :P < 1322797139 183468 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I see. < 1322797146 688477 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just assumed GCC due to the "by analogy to -Werror" < 1322797155 350447 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes more sense in many other contexts. < 1322797166 794517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC nabs gcc's -Wall, -W and -Werror. < 1322797168 4153 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only errors there are in C are "I have no clue how to compile this shit, dude" < 1322797179 666543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except -Wall means "a lot of warnings" and -W means "literally every warning" < 1322797211 291151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similarly it copies gcc's -On options, where -O0 does nothing, -O does most optimisations, and -O2 slows compilation down massively and doesn't help in the majority of cases. < 1322797215 737074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... they shifted the numbers a bit :P < 1322797221 104200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not QUITE. < 1322797234 819463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You could feasibly bypass C's type checker. < 1322797243 243792 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Possibly other errors are possible in C as well, such as lack of address space for declared variables < 1322797271 439006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sounds like "I have no clue how to compile this" to me :P < 1322797276 272194 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But virtually any case where the type checker fails, it fails because it doesn't know how to compile it. < 1322797288 683855 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, maybe that is what it is, then. < 1322797302 506314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not really? Pointer casting, f'rinstance. < 1322797310 585195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a looooooot of errors in C prorgams. < 1322797318 386085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least a fair amount :P < 1322797327 2390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there even any other type errors?? < 1322797366 277787 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of no pointer cast that would give you an error (as opposed to a warning) in default GCC. I suppose int x; int y; y = *x; wouldn't compile, but it also doesn't have enough information to. < 1322797379 942604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cast x to (int *) :P < 1322797386 929658 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's no error. < 1322797399 719063 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it "merely" hits UB. < 1322797413 452422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean automatically. < 1322797428 258750 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1322797436 364698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The machine has no notion of a pointer type, soooo :P < 1322797449 107585 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But how do you know it wanted an /int/ * as opposed to a /char/ * or a /wtf/ *? That's the "doesn't know how to compile it" part. < 1322797462 295357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because y is an int. < 1322797464 333064 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1322797469 286543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like you're not even trying! < 1322797474 93215 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, fair 'nuff. < 1322797478 998224 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you want (int*)(char*) though? < 1322797484 183965 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not so much bypassing the type checker as doing nonsense type inference :P < 1322797490 647866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well fuck you, you're compiling an invalid program, be happy it works :P < 1322797495 328127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO work < 1322797510 879024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now I want a list of gcc's errors... < 1322797518 869448 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322797522 658553 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in C, it ought to be error to use something that isn't a pointer where a pointer is required unless you have an explicit cast (possibly with some exceptions if it would help to do so) < 1322797540 201726 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: In C, it is. < 1322797550 229101 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mmmmm, not quite. < 1322797561 822233 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think except for confusing circumstances. < 1322797563 534281 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: int a(int *x); void foo() { a(42); } < 1322797564 218972 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In GCC it is usually a warning but not an error when I do that < 1322797576 3820 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most notably, I *think* using an integer literal as a pointer is a warning. < 1322797580 648568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear C: WHY DON'T YOU HAVE LAMBDAS < 1322797584 854595 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 'tis, 'tis. < 1322797589 327917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define TRANSFORM_RGB(expr) \ < 1322797589 520074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : do { \ < 1322797589 573666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : uint8_t x; \ < 1322797589 573818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = rgba.r; rgba.r = (expr); \ < 1322797589 573954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = rgba.g; rgba.g = (expr); \ < 1322797590 123730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : x = rgba.b; rgba.b = (expr); \ < 1322797591 838180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : } while (0) < 1322797593 833125 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WANT TO REPLACE THIS HORRIBLE THING < 1322797608 81177 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But dereferencing an integer literal is a no-go as it doesn't know the pointer type. < 1322797617 481530 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: https://github.com/pikhq/clambda-demo/blob/master/lambda.h < 1322797627 704741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: See, B just only had words. < 1322797629 761082 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there was no problem. < 1322797634 974378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd read a word, obviously. < 1322797642 876316 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1322797649 854802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :B: better than C? < 1322797653 491667 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is due to the C preprocessor having a few thing missing. Some things I made in Enhanced CWEB allow you to add your own compile-time codes < 1322797673 826895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can't tell you how INTENSELY willing I am to use this. < 1322797677 624449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's giong into mcmap RIGHT NOW. < 1322797680 299043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*going < 1322797689 72416 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is another programming language BLISS which has far more powerful macro capability and record types than C < 1322797702 203893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What happened to town, btw (GITHUB STALKING IS BEST) < 1322797718 736042 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't do much with it? < 1322797727 80582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah :P < 1322797731 445024 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've spent the past few months basically doing fuck-all on github. :P < 1322797779 5182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And it mixes tabs and spaces too :'( < 1322797935 128928 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-31-252.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322798026 791319 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The STRUCTURE command in BLISS allows you to do a lot of things; the structure can contain arbitrary commands (it does not have to contain only field declarations) < 1322798613 20359 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OWN X; LITERAL MARK = 4; MACRO M = MARK + %UNQUOTE MARK %; BEGIN LITERAL MARK = 5; X = M; END What will the value of X be in this program? It will be 9 < 1322798864 96363 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int *a = alloca(sizeof(*a)); /* this works, but feels so wrong */ < 1322798916 300240 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322798950 504557 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure 'nough. < 1322798971 241691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which part of it < 1322798972 697932 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also involves like 20 preprocessor directives to use it "portably". < 1322799410 219614 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The fact that that the definition of a refers to a :P < 1322799422 933255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, but that's a standard idiom with malloc... < 1322799431 4977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To avoid repeating yourself in case you e.g. change a's type. < 1322799452 563131 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? I don't think I've seen that ... usually I've seen type a = malloc(sizeof(type)); < 1322799458 49059 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, type *a of course < 1322799466 494328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...type *a? < 1322799475 734176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1322799485 338928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, that's more common, but *a is fairly common too. < 1322799492 995905 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm *shrugs* < 1322799506 817496 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION usually embds type because he finds refactoring the expression to be a more compelling example than retyping a variable.
< 1322799510 416262 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long story short, I'm at 2037 code bytes :P < 1322799521 829809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I'd prefer to be able to just omit the "type " on the LHS :P < 1322799526 118822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bring back auto, dudes! < 1322799534 203472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ did it! < 1322799550 970015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For what this time? < 1322799570 270526 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... same as always? < 1322799587 74723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, OK, you talked about doing something else at one point though :P < 1322799653 293323 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered it, couldn't think of a way to make it truly obtuse that wasn't also lame. < 1322799712 654952 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALTHOUGH WE COULD DO A COLLAB < 1322799823 861563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You mean the MIDI thing? < 1322799861 474139 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh < 1322799884 690224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I dunno, I don't think it'd have to be very obfuscated if it produced something nice-sounding given untweaked input... < 1322799915 122719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "nice" is relative, I'm sure the demoscene could synthesise semi-realistic piano and strings within IOCCC limits :P < 1322799915 920519 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1322799941 963701 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the issue, I couldn't think of a way to make it obtuse. < 1322799950 289058 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-42.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... If they don't already. < 1322799957 47154 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, piano: Sure. Pianos are easy. Strings: lolno. < 1322799957 228923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Are we using different definitions of obtuse? < 1322799973 422477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think obtuseness really matters if the result is impressive... the golfing makes code pretty hard to read to start with :P < 1322799978 614003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strings was facetious. < 1322800039 314495 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, I just don't feel like the result would be very obfuscated. < 1322800052 252385 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor do I think it would be sufficiently impressive, though maybe it would be. < 1322800124 928638 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking maybe a MOD player instead... those sound better, but that loses the synthesis element, and I dunno if the effects stuff that MOD players has are hard enough to implement that it'd be impressive :P < 1322800174 990281 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1322800178 382817 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno much about MOD. < 1322800197 867833 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scp-wiki.net/clef101 < 1322800252 583682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: All I know is it has samples and channels of notes :P < 1322800299 128880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: six paragraphs in and this is the worst writing ever < 1322800311 954089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seven paragraphs and it's worse < 1322800323 522334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is bad i'm not going to read it any more < 1322800354 463003 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's all I know toooooo 8-D < 1322800357 979197 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/skybluesky < 1322800422 669077 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any MML compiler to MOD? < 1322800455 623958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So there's at least hacky resampling involved (in case /dev/audio doesn't have the right Hz), modifying the tone of samples, and I think applying various effects to a sample. < 1322800878 941425 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmers. < 1322801063 959926 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accessing memory-mapped files is just as efficient as accessing ordinary memory, as long as I don't do anything that actually requires disk access. Right? < 1322801222 102196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Are you asking whether mmap() caches? < 1322801228 392441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, yes, your OS has disk caches. < 1322801241 111702 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1322801252 210520 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION replaces malloc with mmap. Save all the things.
< 1322801265 649269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: malloc is implemented with mmap for large enough allocations in all common libcs. < 1322801268 900979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like >4k. < 1322801290 336389 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, neat. < 1322801304 218093 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where #haskell < 1322801304 501946 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right here, silly! < 1322801307 139059 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know? < 1322801328 899316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where #esoteric < 1322801329 674497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about #esoteric. < 1322801332 894237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ #esoteric Right here, silly! < 1322801333 678159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is stored. < 1322801667 700488 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1322801867 402910 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1025 < 1322801882 113289 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, read that completely, don't stop reading just because < 1322801899 830981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I like stop reading just because! < 1322802112 166122 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OK that was amusing. < 1322803601 89188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kallisti By the way, (const undefined) is also strict, but doesn't evaluate its argument. < 1322803601 634209 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322803621 407320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell kallisti Proof: const undefined _|_ = undefined = _|_. < 1322803622 210787 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322803956 813398 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322803998 566352 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322804076 222777 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1322804369 906355 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1322805237 333968 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1322807387 628664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1322807388 584393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322807522 828699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :took you a while < 1322807721 293986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322807725 89980 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322807909 26787 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the way to select a $2n$ by $2n$ matrix of booleans such that there is exactly $n$ true in each row and in each column, from all possible ones, uniformly? < 1322808043 534224 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible. < 1322808067 344207 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I am lying.) < 1322808352 515981 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322808359 71151 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322808410 806136 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322808468 340073 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am having trouble with stochastic cellular automata, and i stumbled across this link (http://www.conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=398) do you guys talk about that in here?? < 1322808501 550331 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1322808507 985879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask the question; they sometimes talk about various things in here and possibly someone knows < 1322808518 268981 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ##gameoflife, heh < 1322808522 804727 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that channel lasted uh... a few days < 1322808531 974031 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol sad < 1322808538 859914 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is still a regular here though < 1322808546 317045 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't say we get CA talk very often but when we do it tends to be lively < 1322808558 114589 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's quiet hours right now < 1322808565 36048 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my question is to design two different stochastic cellular automata: < 1322808576 75595 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Design a 1D stochastic cellular automata that uses on rules involving two adjacent cells at at time that (with high probability) do the following tasks: < 1322808580 534164 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a. If the majority of cells are initially 0, the final state is all zeros. If the majority of cells is initial 1, the final state is 1. < 1322808585 541915 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b. Starting with all cells at 0, reach a final state in which one cell is a 1 and the rest are 2. < 1322808611 626457 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, cool < 1322808617 20198 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't homework, is it? :p < 1322808632 968758 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABSOLUTELY NOT :P < 1322808671 288991 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol works in CA, although you may find his answers rather unwantedly vague for a question he considers too trivial :P < 1322808697 239501 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think he's here right now < 1322808705 105916 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, that is typically the case for IRC channels < 1322808730 259597 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not us! we're helpful and cuddly and nice. well... occasionally < 1322808739 549453 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha nice < 1322808750 670590 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have any idea on this?? < 1322808767 324369 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not personally, but there are like three people off the top of my head who might be able to help who aren't here right now :P < 1322808775 17868 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sux < 1322808811 769508 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask monqy; you probably won't get an answer but the non-answer might be entertaining < 1322808823 389355 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol kk < 1322808837 833019 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't he just see this?? how should i ask?? < 1322808846 971436 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smoke signals < 1322808860 174790 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he responds by sending "hi"s in morse code < 1322808906 90613 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I SUMMON THY MONQY < 1322808908 165899 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... .. .... .. .... .. < 1322808925 385312 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322808927 265075 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google majority problem < 1322808929 55034 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_problem_(cellular_automaton) < 1322808929 298649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Majority problem (cellular automaton) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1322809007 214562 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough about cellular automata < 1322809044 205012 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither :P < 1322809193 111285 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how I could figure out the answer to my question? < 1322809261 333002 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask someone who knows and is willing and able to answer appropriately < 1322809328 939108 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322809336 159031 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1322809732 51892 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_, update < 1322811865 912067 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might have figured out what contramonads and contracomonads is supposed to be: contrareturn :: (a -> m ()) -> m a; contrajoin :: m (m a) -> m (a -> m ()); contraextract :: w a -> a -> w (); contraduplicate :: w (a -> w ()) -> w (w a); I don't know how good this is, though. Maybe I made a few mistakes? < 1322813431 997400 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, there's a setting for it < 1322813554 160857 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: :help swapfile < 1322814926 979510 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scp-wiki.net/sandrewswann-s-proposal < 1322814968 703815 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "But your thoughts are nothing except hallucination!" have anything to do with "greedy reductionism"? < 1322815191 739587 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1322815669 199332 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e0d5.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1322816039 591474 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-192-37.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what research on cellular automatons look like < 1322816057 885295 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-192-37.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much is math and how much is just trying stuff on it < 1322816391 301210 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1322818088 396677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: hi < 1322818089 64241 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322818094 906358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :qx'blah blah blah' < 1322818246 205535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: is how you prevent Perl from interpolating in a shell command < 1322818266 353976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're using system or whatever else you would just pass a single quoted string obviously. < 1322818415 651284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (const undefined undefined) `seq` "hi" < 1322818418 34512 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1322818582 913308 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: similarly, using single quotes as a delimiter for any other interpolating quoke-like operator (except for qq, which always interpolates) will turn off interpolation < 1322818649 844389 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: there is a lot of bullshit being done with cellular automata, which is why we're not taken very seriously < 1322818662 42564 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s'blah'blah', m'blah', qr'blah' < 1322818671 389239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I... don't remember if qw interpolations. < 1322818696 620098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl my ($x,$y,$z) = 1..3; print qw($x $y $z) < 1322818699 235933 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$x$y$z < 1322818701 722018 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: clearly you should work for a prestigious research group like Wolfram < 1322818702 495259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1322818716 267833 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322818734 865711 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear they get great press coverage < 1322818741 251434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!print ?bahahahahaha? < 1322818762 943720 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!print $_="hi"; print ?hi? < 1322818772 779323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!print $_="hi"; print /hi/ < 1322818775 214499 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wolfram invented one of the most important concepts of CA on which i too work every day < 1322818777 939777 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the limit set < 1322818783 547070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he didn't actually define it < 1322818788 682122 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he's a retard < 1322818804 140580 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, he had quite an influence there < 1322818842 433100 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe he actually gave a definition, but you know for the sake of this story. < 1322818859 517463 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least he doesn't have any actual results < 1322818899 377396 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: anyhow, searching for counterexamples is, as in any branch of math, rather ad hoc < 1322818974 240472 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, we use measure theory, compactness arguments, symbolic dynamics and ergodic theory on a daily basis. but any sort of deep results are needed rarely. < 1322819020 555656 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the basic theory < 1322819094 389352 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, i've needed a point whose ergodic fibre is the uniform bernoulli measure a few times when studying the besicovitch space, such a point is not that easy to construct, but it follows from ergodic theory that pretty much all points have this property < 1322819208 46555 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbolic dynamics is really where most of the math happens, so if CA wasn't so easy to write, i'd always talk about endomorphisms of the shift just to keep the CA people out < 1322819259 2151 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this guy in a conference who said he's a computer scientiest but also does a lot of math. he said he's working on cellular automata, and said that HE HAD HEARD THAT YOU CAN GIVE A TOPOLOGY TO THE FULL SHIFT < 1322819263 875858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1322819292 606865 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: whoosh < 1322819296 987035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there went the joke < 1322819298 924097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :over my head. < 1322819310 893491 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you can't do anything with CA without the cantor topology on the space < 1322819323 588784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1322819334 513113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :see I thought you were implying it was impossible or something which... sounded unlikely to me. < 1322819363 21695 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he studied something like gliders in elementary CA < 1322819369 966812 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck kind of research is that < 1322819373 537629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...heh < 1322819376 933982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDE THEY LIKE < 1322819377 723081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOVE < 1322819379 508906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A LINE < 1322819386 512568 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITERATING IN A CYCLE < 1322819386 566272 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so coooool < 1322819410 330812 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's the non-mathematical side of CA research < 1322819469 561948 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: if you want links to the good kind of research, i can show some good representatives of the techniques < 1322819499 534334 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to know more about the bad kind, you could always read nkos < 1322819622 229784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum . map (\(n,x) -> 2*x / 3^n ) $ zip (cycle [0,1]) [1..] < 1322819626 910882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322819654 220996 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wow shocking < 1322819701 900015 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a pretty good representative: http://www2.math.umd.edu/~mboyle/papers/automata20oct98.pdf < 1322819742 207961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how one would convert points in a cantor space to real numbers in Haskell. :> < 1322819747 812191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems... difficult. < 1322819999 72510 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tytythetyty: that's an easy consequence of http://www.cs.bu.edu/~gacs/papers/long-ca-ms.pdf < 1322820021 228423 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i didn't read any log < 1322820056 339382 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk thanks! i will look at this :) < 1322820094 88846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol fault tolerant cellular automata < 1322820130 222435 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAs can be used to model networks < 1322820139 551121 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes, you might ask whether they're fault tolerant < 1322820169 545289 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tytythetyty: but apart from being a consequence of that, stochastic automata are very hard to work with, and i don't know if anyone but gacs has really ever succeeded < 1322820189 811189 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tytythetyty: err actually < 1322820222 807075 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if i told someone at work that i just linked gacs to some random guy on irc to read, they would punch me in the face < 1322820246 3060 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, apart from gacs, only one person has ever managed to read all of that < 1322820253 933939 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i was typing this < 1322820254 646762 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :phosphoglycerate kinase < 1322820257 33120 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammmit! < 1322820258 966387 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1322820275 117898 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was gonna ask if there is a specific section that is applicable?? < 1322820276 918340 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that pdf < 1322820278 506846 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you ask your question in the first place? < 1322820320 42620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So there are as many points in the Cantor set as there are in [0, 1], and the Cantor set is uncountable " < 1322820323 887626 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you probably need only a part of the construction. i can link you the reader's guide < 1322820327 475806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mind blown
< 1322820330 895478 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am doing some work in a Synthetic Biology seminar < 1322820336 409205 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was a challenge < 1322820344 951190 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.bu.edu/~gacs/papers/long-ca-ms.pdf < 1322820350 32652 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to people in the seminar < 1322820359 742281 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gave it? < 1322820392 345608 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know random people in synth bio?? < 1322820393 295638 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1322820429 178668 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no but i mean did they know what they were asking... of course if you just want to have good approximations, you can just try stuff out < 1322820469 524082 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see haha < 1322820478 822663 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gacs' automaton, afaiu, works with any probability, and simulates any CA you like reliably with high probability < 1322820480 20713 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he likes this stuff < 1322820519 213095 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :synth bio... is that similar to mathematical biology? < 1322820520 100459 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, i will look at these, thanks! < 1322820524 351751 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1322820525 607483 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1322820533 34159 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should ask what the exact results are at the university, i'm more into symbolic dynamics myself < 1322820547 907335 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't really wank to gacs' paper unlike most CA ppl < 1322820582 104310 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it solved like every problem ever < 1322820606 193366 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :math bio is more modeling bio systems with math, synth bio is more engineering genetic pathways < 1322820613 585079 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well incidentally it didn't solve the problem of finding a uniquely ergodic CA which my colleague did this week, awesome right < 1322820647 644907 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so :P not sure what a uniquely ergodic CA is < 1322821044 788818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tytythetyty: wow, I didn't realize how far we've come with genetic engineering. < 1322821050 733650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reading about gene networks.
< 1322821131 666182 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if you have access to this somehow (i.e. an academic proxy), or an actual subscription, this is a good overview < 1322821132 318101 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sciencemag.org/site/special/syntheticbio/ < 1322821150 946759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not currently no. < 1322821167 165264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hmmm, actually I may be able to. < 1322821278 908169 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tytythetyty: uniquely ergodic means there's only one dynamics-invariant measure for your dynamical system (the dynamics being the CA). this measure is then automatically ergodic. < 1322821285 78679 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the case of CA < 1322821286 401440 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: this is interesting too, this is the undergraudate synth bio team at my school, who recently won the international undergrad competition (http://2011.igem.org/Team:Washington) < 1322821306 692859 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that in every column, the density of some symbol 0 always gets bigger and bigger < 1322821309 21236 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ahhh i see < 1322821416 797469 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm i applied for this grant and they said they'd notify recipients by end of march. i heard rumors that i got it but there's another ville who applied and now no one just knows anything. except that i wasn't notified, so i probably didn't get it. well, today, i got an email that says something like dear recipient, please fucking register for our party already. < 1322821475 82680 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm confused, did they just send that to everyone who applied and filter out non-recipients by addressing it to recipients (non-recipients have not been notified) < 1322821538 8740 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably go talk to someone at the university... we already changed where i'm getting my next year's funding based on me not getting the grant :D < 1322821552 277461 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm i mean my whole 4 year plan < 1322821635 366310 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go to the party and make so many friends that they can't kick you out < 1322821664 861421 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1322821666 489510 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1322821692 38982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@source nDerivs < 1322821692 357640 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nDerivs not available < 1322821696 836263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t nDerivs < 1322821697 830037 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a i. (Num i, Num a) => (Dif Expr -> Dif a) -> i < 1322821704 818504 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs sin < 1322821708 591157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322821711 459921 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> nDerivs log < 1322821717 31453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1322821755 237723 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grants are a bitch sometimes :/ < 1322821759 609514 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interviews < 1322821774 603064 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a microsoft interview today, didn't go as well as it should have < 1322822151 601646 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e84e.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322822262 348489 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti and oklopol: good talking to you guys! thanks for the help < 1322822265 955740 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a good night < 1322822302 958716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1322822316 262216 :tytythetyty!1812f3be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.18.243.190 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1322823445 82074 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1322824671 862210 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e84e.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hail eris < 1322824892 564891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hail < 1322825921 53604 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322827437 316667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystical_Ninja_Starring_Goemon < 1322827441 311710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone else played this game? < 1322827485 586020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322828003 633229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322828922 592062 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1322829175 884446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hi < 1322829184 484935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kallisti < 1322829190 295694 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystical_Ninja_Starring_Goemon < 1322829193 98400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you played this game? < 1322829197 412098 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :N64 game. < 1322829212 618582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322829215 969268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't own an N64 < 1322829244 310232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I /have/ played a very few N64 games on other people's N64s, but a small selection) < 1322829268 195717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322829293 718019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :some weird Japanese game I played as a kid. I just rediscovered it and my nostalgia glands kicked in. < 1322829297 553855 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: wow, skyrim depends on steam even when bought in-store? <-- yes < 1322829333 835652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A cellular automaton is said to be reversible if for every current configuration of the cellular automaton there is exactly one past configuration (preimage)." < 1322829349 637388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh, come on. you can totally non-deterministically reverse to multiple past images. < 1322829350 560063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I'm surprised that you're surprised at that; it's become more and more common recently < 1322829355 281821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm upset by it, but not surprised < 1322829372 902110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with requiring Steam? it's free right? < 1322829400 153434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: assumes you're going to have a network connection when you play the game < 1322829407 226298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is almost always not the case for me, I typically play games offline < 1322829429 246856 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322829453 141502 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that Steam had an offline mode as well. < 1322829472 967415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't actually play PC video games often.
< 1322829500 980752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis. < 1322829510 480590 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only pirates, criminals and communists play offline < 1322829535 251838 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people who might not live in the first world, but they're mostly pirates, criminals and communists anyway < 1322829549 211482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, I prefer "anarchists, lunatics, and terrorists" < 1322829560 658681 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Steam has an "offline mode" if you check the "save login details" box, or something like that. < 1322829577 798806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd still need an Internet connection to install the game < 1322829598 390618 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, it's a Internet-based delivery system, after all. But not when you play it. < 1322829598 925221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be that you could go to a shop, buy a game, take it home, and install it on a non-networked computer < 1322829615 300405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only DRM would be requiring the disk to stay in the drive, together with measures to make the disk harder to copy < 1322829661 337934 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it also used to be that there was this thing called "dial-up" < 1322829664 983647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, "Scaffolding" seems like an interesting name for an esolang < 1322829671 721526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it still exists, believe it or not < 1322829676 497054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah.. < 1322829695 220917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least one ISP gave free dial-up internet access to Egypt when the government cut off all the ISPs < 1322829695 428851 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it much the same way that floppy drives still exist. < 1322829705 526912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that they had all this dial-up capacity that was hardly being used < 1322829710 897170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I actually have a USB floppy drive < 1322829720 434462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......why < 1322829750 231837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a digital archeologist? < 1322829751 947205 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :At one point in time multiple laptops came out bundled with USB floppy drives. < 1322829757 673787 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unearthing ancient tombs filled with floppy disks? < 1322829769 832396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: because I used to back things up to floppy disks, back before CD burners were common < 1322829804 493995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because floppy disk is quite a convenient way to quickly transfer files from one computer to another; it's pretty much as fast as doing it via USB stick, just with a lower capacity < 1322829831 852648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this thing < 1322829849 463960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I can put up to 5 GBs of information onto a server probably hundreds of miles away. < 1322829857 401854 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then log into that server on another computer < 1322829863 832435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and download the information < 1322829881 188338 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not as fast as a floppy < 1322829888 540590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're like, physically next to both computers < 1322829909 663073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you send data hundreds of miles to transfer it across the room? < 1322829911 354708 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia, "the average sequential read speed is 30–70 kB/s". < 1322829934 719961 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322829949 88531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if both computers are on the same network, I'd just use that network to send it < 1322829963 722603 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's okay it's traveling at light speed. < 1322829975 866414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah < 1322829978 345913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only time bouncing off an external server would make sense for a same-room transfer would be if there was some sort of firewall between them < 1322829980 726274 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be silly. < 1322830005 820668 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well I'm referring to Dropbox. if you have it installed on both computers it's even easier. < 1322830010 540436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's also possible to login from any computer. < 1322830019 519318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :via a web interface < 1322830025 48845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(extreme example: the wireless connection here in my office is outside the department's firewall, the wired connection is inside, so I'm careful not to use both at once; and the wired connection is really heavily monitored, to the extent that Chrome refuses to access Google, because I think it's MITMing the https) < 1322830030 766043 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous, i demand heavy speed! < 1322830043 885650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :We used to use MageLink for transferring files between the computers at the computer classroom at school. It's the spiffiest-looking IPX file transfer thing there is. < 1322830058 342370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, now I remember XPDT < 1322830068 53844 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly an image search for 'MageLink' is not being very helpful. < 1322830094 579445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that none of the file-transfer stuff that comes with Windows allows transferring over a serial link from Windows 95 to Windows XP, or the other way round < 1322830094 632813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wrote my own program to do that < 1322830134 248723 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they still bundle a LapLink-like thing in modern Windowses? I suppose not. < 1322830164 273419 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "null-printer" cable, the silliest name. < 1322830194 792559 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By analogy with null modem cables.) < 1322830401 822273 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian's installation manual has a PLIP-based installation method described. < 1322830483 587460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322830593 399143 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Windows Vista drops support for the Direct cable connection feature [4] as ethernet, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth have become ubiquitous on current generation computers. To transfer files and settings, Windows Vista includes Windows Easy Transfer, which uses a proprietary USB-to-USB bridge cable known as the Easy Transfer Cable." <- right, they've given it up. < 1322830797 290418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322830956 367190 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Talk:Afterparty: This sure doesn't answer anything. Also, it's "after party", not one word. It's also a lame concept. (Wow, I wanted to go on a pro-Communist rant there, but stopped.) More needs to be written, otherwise, it just seems like a myth of some sort. Besides (stopping myself again from going totally anti-suburbs here). Apple8800 (talk) 17:26, 29 March 2011 (UTC) < 1322831023 627141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking capitalists and their afterparties (one word) < 1322831207 542410 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322831390 167164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: hi < 1322832730 532552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1322832988 98414 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, because floppy disk is quite a convenient way to quickly transfer files from one computer to another; it's pretty much as fast as doing it via USB stick, just with a lower capacity <-- not really, floppies are really slow < 1322833013 793215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast enough when you're only transferring a few tens of kilobytes, which is typical < 1322833058 869973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: I actually have a USB floppy drive <-- I have two of them I think. One pure USB floppy drive and one that doubles as a "ultrabay-for-old-dell floppy device" and USB one < 1322833086 733001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hm I seldom transfer less than a mb or so < 1322833101 299220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and quite often something like 10 GB < 1322833110 475804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't fit 10 GB on a floppy < 1322833113 248543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322833127 283179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time I needed to transfer that sort of data, I put the two computers physically next to each other and connected them with an Ethernet crossover cable < 1322833129 78801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then used rsync < 1322833132 386063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use ethernet over firewire back when my desktop only had 100 mbit connection. Because firewire allowed 400 mbit < 1322833132 832580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that sort of amount of data < 1322833155 619242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have gbit ethernet on both my desktop and laptop < 1322833164 178473 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so generally the disk speed in the laptop is the bottleneck < 1322833216 262723 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e84e.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1322833278 276764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm PSU at the bottom seems to be getting more and more popular in high end chassis these days. < 1322833289 654454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is actually the point of PSU at the bottom < 1322833336 554566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer has that, but it just messes up with the cables as far as I'm concerned (since the PSU uses flat cables with connectors on the side of the cable. And it is designed for mounting at the top. < 1322833374 734641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe you would know what the advantages of PSU at the bottom of the computer case is? < 1322833379 278686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's so that when YouTube upgrade their video service, it still works if you turn the entire computer case upside-down < 1322833388 775880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1322833388 845693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gives even better performance than just inverting the monitor < 1322833391 330069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1322833406 636255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverting monitor? I don't get the joke. < 1322833422 101393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was YouTube's April Fools thing this year (or maybe last year?) < 1322833427 418082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : ah < 1322833430 698682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they turned the entire site layout upside-down, also the videos < 1322833435 490103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1322833439 487095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but seriously, any idea? < 1322833444 982506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that they'd discovered that videos looked better if you turned the monitor upside-down < 1322833448 634079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, not offhand < 1322833459 175357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't surprise me if it was something to do with cooling, but I don't see how it would help offhand < 1322833463 491471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if it were < 1322833532 731515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322833673 355320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1.1 The droll business is, whether you be convinced active it, the cares you should get are each familiar meaning! How does it effort? Besides solely, individual moves any earful most you, possibly on-line or conceivably eve via any scrap send that you tossed in the crank without eve trigger-happy it up. < 1322833768 82700 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds fungotty. < 1322833768 383107 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ' cheers,' said lu-tze. < 1322833813 299516 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1322833826 622844 :kallisti!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322833828 98360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: go on < 1322833828 386250 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: " no we ain't," said esk. " granny always says that to women, for the arms, two twigs. < 1322833838 515219 :kallisti!~eris@h132.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1322833838 568654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1322833844 69042 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 25 < 1322833851 425013 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :eszykkakemed obatleue raieffenisteinges paghters ac gan roleyum appard lvatoulphonicae hendfelletharbrogg ratereur bee tocitz bratous aeurrosly pred pic sten reanclan tlnhek bie un dodus blertrigentmousalgilemanatimend ro < 1322833904 337424 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1322833936 569421 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, for some reason youtube is saying "missing plugin" for every video. < 1322833954 886113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: perhaps you don't have a Flash plugin? < 1322833964 909125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I most definitely do < 1322833966 427249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bee" is a real word, out of that list < 1322833973 637919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just restarted after some updates though. < 1322833989 292059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite a few of them sound like they could be real words < 1322833991 554139 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it happens. especially with short words. only so many possibilities in a markov model. < 1322833994 625527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good < 1322833995 549267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322833999 789355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 25 < 1322834002 13044 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuermarabev as gcommenfer dumallyley wychafr mam zat tb tuproassitara man apitenins jurg autory cler hydrouzhdu aflutz flits ine boni met soirodestsovegeble bolia formagged lopui ch < 1322834032 158652 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aflutz :) < 1322834041 639571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has flits and aflutz
< 1322834048 902038 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1322834056 877741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen people seriously attempt to use "boni" as the plural of "bonus" < 1322834062 36120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1322834062 90818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as" is also a word, as is "man" < 1322834067 189837 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :met < 1322834072 811068 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pic" and "pred" out of that first list were also rather common abbreviations. < 1322834076 898919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, "formagged" is possibly the best nonword there < 1322834099 425269 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no soirodestsovegeble? < 1322834114 164802 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least boni is correct latin, i think < 1322834133 555269 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike some other examples < 1322834147 193157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I think so < 1322834159 55802 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :formagged obviously means turned into cheese < 1322834207 403089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322834223 356476 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 50 < 1322834225 829933 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :monsumizehutand senselees atticheler jnaal tans ber ozamoloupne dovolowx hici unthiries subs auroo zu pribacc obikanba vity iscu lammenleres ken meduratctrae wd troasakic venderpugaryszus alierectracist mesi bouraps bbizosinizaria fandombori obed uienyonoseranottinscrenzy wander rheetess syraibia te tro ruardentiminesta hus sesined thl metion sch brica inuce howmrech narremietty baarimptinfon bnue boletadvaligny cluvra kancr < 1322834238 401471 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monsumizehutand -- ancient Aztech ruler < 1322834250 543966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fandombori" < 1322834257 605805 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322834276 719181 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a senselees list of words. < 1322834323 16221 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is an 'alierectracist' a person who won't submit to being probed by extraterrestials, or what? < 1322834332 800130 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1322834335 551956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so? < 1322834381 255864 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 1 < 1322834383 649977 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :urganaidonoropedeechl < 1322834426 234941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip`ap`tail < 1322834429 927986 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. [b] -> [(b, b)] < 1322834466 568346 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err-gah-nah-ee-doh-noh-ropey-dee-ch-L < 1322834492 485119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322834506 235087 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god thats difficult < 1322834507 712380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has gotten the hang of pronouncing these things.
< 1322834516 519297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little creative discretion is allowed < 1322834529 558443 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english you must remember that pronunciation does not follow from spelling :P < 1322834530 385773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's "pseudoEnglish" in nature < 1322834539 677637 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which already has a wide variety of different ways to pronounce combinations of letters < 1322834569 557701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: no it does, it's just based on a wide variety of linguistic influenced < 1322834581 262752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*influences < 1322834600 337725 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to me like it simply borrows several pronunciation systems < 1322834625 411311 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is "borrowed" and slightly reinvented in natural language < 1322834627 750828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, a lot of things. < 1322834712 987404 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speech synthesis thingies often have (in addition to a large pronunciation dictionary) some sort of a rule-based device to generate plausible phonemes for OOV words. < 1322834722 728228 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the idea of english is to acquire the shibbaleths of their eneies < 1322834734 449616 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^enemies < 1322834758 538690 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :music, art, religions, holidays, sports, mythologies < 1322834777 984895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someones probably already done a phd on that possibility i suggested and found it's a dead-end < 1322834780 676553 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo 'monsumizehutand senselees ... cluvra kancr' | festival --tts # the best babble ever. < 1322834783 572360 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you look at all of these things you'll see a (mostly) linear progression of linear through history. < 1322834798 658955 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run festival --help < 1322834800 461130 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: festival: command not found < 1322834815 511334 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so fast I can't make anything out of it, and I don't quite recall how to control speaking speed. < 1322834840 445418 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 5 < 1322834842 527986 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :parne euwessoly coms coaulanquicolve tra < 1322834845 992358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes a linear progression of linear. < 1322834852 731681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 25 is a good number < 1322834856 211078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bound to find something interesting. < 1322834868 313960 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it heuristicizes into pronouncing things as lettersims; like "sch" and "wd" it does like that. < 1322834910 420136 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prosody for that "sentence" is... somewhat arbitrary too. < 1322834934 761387 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 30 < 1322834937 75045 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :imerapposan ccyptyrs strcd plitaspet plation cxlere decocs vie chya schth sap cont eldenernefl chron diss ophyphofe symo imbee hoyoj dro einee dion eouciircloromplam wehenss remed nifteng jeeppertia sa sch dimely < 1322834954 463108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :strcd sounds like a string.h function < 1322834954 517267 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a short break between uienyonoseranottinscrenzy and wander, like a comma, for some reason. < 1322834975 134426 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :schth -- best word < 1322835065 536433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eldenernefl - el-den-nur-neh-ful < 1322835076 358845 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: unfortunately I believe googles data contains roman numerals < 1322835089 237638 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my pseudo-intelligence leads me to say, ("ais523") = "523". ("523") = '5', '2', '3'. ('5') = 5. ('2') = 2. ('3') = 3. 5+2+3 = 10 < 1322835089 809977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sometimes leads to ridiculous things like triple i's < 1322835098 327686 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 10 < 1322835100 370441 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tris bayions au minis tolotti ital coneu via tchliplanosleociot exillesta < 1322835139 498111 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Festival pronounces eldenernefl with pretty much a silent "den"; el-ner-neh-ful. < 1322835153 72499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quite like tchliplanosleociot < 1322835153 321825 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, 'de'. < 1322835179 545732 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for exillesta... thats just a kick ass word < 1322835179 615551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it's squishy in my mouth < 1322835191 228380 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I can't hear any difference between elnernefl and eldenernefl. Maybe the latter is just archaic spelling for the former? < 1322835209 154919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely... < 1322835274 898737 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word < 1322835277 229094 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sen < 1322835291 449474 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's valid Finnish. < 1322835313 614004 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I suppose quite a few other languages too. < 1322835330 599479 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese and Swedish, at least. < 1322835337 652443 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i got 23000 euros today < 1322835347 634954 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't spend it all at once now. < 1322835347 828717 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word < 1322835349 998677 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :progyribure < 1322835354 346346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: grant? < 1322835356 758333 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1322835364 899863 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sounds less cool < 1322835373 34473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you have to like spend it a certain way don't you < 1322835377 453030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322835386 724122 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for living expenses < 1322835390 678138 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah cool. < 1322835401 290401 :Slereah_!~butt@ANantes-259-1-248-47.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1322835434 675130 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-192-37.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322835434 777300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you should buy a nice TV and a PS3 and play Demons' Souls < 1322835447 497066 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe some food too. < 1322835457 431022 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's any money left after the essentials. < 1322835464 210911 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like those mentioned above. < 1322835465 869220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: my grant comes more gradually < 1322835466 65390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh 23000 euros is plenty for food. poor American white trash could live off of that for a year at least. < 1322835474 219287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just look at my bank account and find that there's more money in there than I remember < 1322835489 658803 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mine too, probably. i'm just polishing the facts a bit. < 1322835505 31337 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to live off it for a year. it's actually just my normal salary. < 1322835515 61571 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My grant just somehow goes into some (rather large, I think maybe 80% or so?) percentage of my regular monthly salary. < 1322835518 442217 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even slightly less since i just got a raise. < 1322835520 80290 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know the details. < 1322835530 68272 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe mine does too < 1322835535 575158 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from väisälä, you may know it < 1322835541 219498 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you could probably get like, what, 92 high-class escorts (read: prostitutes)? < 1322835554 429956 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know where to get those in finland < 1322835568 82879 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the rest of the paycheck comes from some place, but I don't know where. Maybe it's the... department? I don't know, the bureaucracy is confusing. < 1322835591 902464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm amused that you know the price that accurately < 1322835595 843687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of you guys have grants? weird. < 1322835601 911534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just get paid. < 1322835613 203662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my grant and paycheck are added separately < 1322835618 486706 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my paycheck currently comes from the "project" of my supervisor (in math, project just means... nothing) < 1322835618 627924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well it was an estimate. < 1322835619 615360 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have an income. i get 'supported' by my family < 1322835625 52542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly, the paycheck has many times more bureaucracy < 1322835631 651757 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to complain. i do nothing to deserve an income < 1322835643 764230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: that was the case for me before I got a job, too < 1322835652 498618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I imagine it's the case for pretty much everyone too young to have a job < 1322835684 926400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is currently supported by his family /and/ making money.
< 1322835685 734191 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : im not on a dole either.. and im relatively happy really < 1322835688 620346 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: up to now, i just had a paycheck, but my supervisor asked me to apply for a grant since he ran out of money for next year because he desperately needed to fish a good student for himself. < 1322835693 510381 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for now. I intend to move out sometime next year. < 1322835706 230150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: academia is weird. < 1322835728 438773 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the student might have gone with a different professor if he'd waited. < 1322835735 336102 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i chat with a lot of people more intelligent than me < 1322835756 684164 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not good for my relative sense of intelligence :D < 1322835772 501853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I think most people do, actually; people tend to gravitate towards people with similar levels of intelligence < 1322835776 909034 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well... I have a regular salary selected from our salary tables, but I have this four-year "Doctoral Programme" position from http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/hecse/ too, so that money gets somehow funneled in as a "funding source" into whatever percentage of my salary it happens to cover, and the department makes up for the difference from some other project/funding/whatever. < 1322835782 181133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus will tend to meet people more intelligent than themselves, no matter how intelligent they are < 1322835788 519690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, how complex < 1322835790 731979 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh.. thats a positive < 1322835802 330216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes terrible web apps for a living.
< 1322835804 840869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gravitated towards #esoteric < 1322835807 148679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exception: the most intelligent few people in the world) < 1322835832 575104 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I'm certainly not as intelligent as most people on this channel, but I still consider myself intelligent. do you know why? < 1322835836 288547 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because: real world < 1322835838 217857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are stupid < 1322835845 550193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's much simpler for me; I have a 75% part-time PhD (which I'm being funded by the department to work on, at the suggestion of my supervisor), and am paid directly for a 25% part time teaching job < 1322835869 180139 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if i had to judge, my question would be, do you realize there are inherent contradictions to such statements? :D < 1322835871 398791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've considered going getting a Phd at some point, but... I don't know if it's worth it. < 1322835890 606444 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: there aren't < 1322835917 979477 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking oneself too seriously leads to a holistic decrease in intelligence < 1322835925 502288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1322835935 692973 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes everything SERIOUSLY AAAAAAH
< 1322835938 223017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. :) < 1322835995 84551 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean... eh.. nevermind.. i need to be in another mood for that silly topic of mine < 1322836003 322615 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Condor, this "let's use our idle desktops as a computing grid" thingie, has a confusing -help for some commands: < 1322836004 261736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oklopol: fizzie: the problem with me getting a Ph.D in Computer Science is that I don't really think I will be very /good/ at research. < 1322836004 544912 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ condor_hold -help |& grep addr < 1322836004 708867 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : -addr Connect directly to the given "sinful string" < 1322836008 465927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pretending that I'm researching. < 1322836039 560202 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes an "ip:port" sinful is unclear to me. Maybe it refers to struct sin_addr. < 1322836041 298253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that could be a problem < 1322836053 189108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps to have an obvious thing to be working on already < 1322836058 516645 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought i might just be a good student and a horrible researcher, but this seems to be going well < 1322836060 303795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the hardware compiler, in my case < 1322836064 819661 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have something like 50 theorems now < 1322836071 571065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1322836076 333094 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I work on side projects sure, but nothing that's groundbreaking < 1322836082 801012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, I have 3 papers, which contain an average of less than one theorem each < 1322836083 706698 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and three publications < 1322836088 181166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't write a paper on how I made a program that randomly generates words. :P < 1322836095 215581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it's known techniques < 1322836101 862387 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I hope you are naming them with a numbering scheme, so that you can have people referring to "oklopol's 37th theorem". < 1322836105 510465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general point of PhDs is that you're expanding the boundaries of knowledge < 1322836110 79192 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1322836123 285623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is proving new results, whereas what I'm doing is basically programming < 1322836132 686642 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: uhhh.... this is a difficult topic. in the end intelligence as a measurement crumbles under it's own weight. < 1322836133 459212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's coming up with new algorithms, I guess, looked at from the mathematical view < 1322836152 58565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when we prove theorems, it's either to prove that they produce the right results, or that they always terminate < 1322836152 906971 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think many of them will ever be referred to, this is the number of theorems that aren't trivial to prove, the number of useful results is way less. < 1322836161 14319 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe as I focus on new side-projects I'll come across something somewhat new. < 1322836166 842113 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess what i am saying is there is a mild sarcasm for me whenever i use that word intelligent < 1322836167 365760 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1322836168 744724 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming can be a research topic < 1322836178 93445 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But results tend to become dated < 1322836184 127769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: we couldn't believe that what we were doing was new, in some cases, but it turned out that it was < 1322836217 550623 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have some computational results, decidability and semidecidability stuff < 1322836225 830046 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe I should focus on what interests me outside of computing. I have a pretty strong grasp of signal processing as it relates to music. I could probably find something new there. < 1322836226 199608 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: uhhh.. like.. you know.. theres tangible intelligence and intangible intelligence *pulls hair out* < 1322836240 820713 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly on zero entropy sofic shifts, since we're trying to get to a CS conference that emphasizes this < 1322836281 749469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I generally don't think that the many different kinds of intelligence are truly quantifiable. IQ has statistical importance but there are other ways to think of what intelligence means. < 1322836287 494827 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not 50, the number was 37 last i checked, but that was after summer and we have 3 new results this week i think < 1322836294 898541 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might be about 50 but dunno < 1322836299 683251 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Zero entropy sofic shift" sounds like something straight out of some new age crackpot website. < 1322836300 344447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 12 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322836310 297269 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ;_; the topic of intelligence itself is indeed one that requires intelligence to traverse < 1322836317 311460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm counting mine and my colleague's, there's a couple that he proved and about half are joint work < 1322836327 917487 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in particular I've been considering that there are a number of combinators that you can apply to form rhythmic patterns. It may be under some existing generalization though. < 1322836378 897683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott FFS, find a way of messaging me that doesn't overflow so easily. < 1322836379 550742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322836389 109399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest would be parallel and serial combinations. < 1322836397 159190 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps there are more. < 1322836399 481280 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sofic shift is just a shift space defined by a labeled directed graph, they are the closure under factor maps of subshifts of finite type, which on the other hand are exactly the subshifts defined by a clopen set < 1322836405 142352 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a natural sense < 1322836432 931065 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And time has four corners < 1322836435 243059 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and zero entropy means the topological entropy of the dynamical system where the left shift is the dynamics < 1322836471 983656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: does lambdabot overflow? < 1322836477 291198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when messaging < 1322836481 754686 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a nice characterization for these < 1322836510 467193 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea who i'm talking to < 1322836511 482838 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322836533 847367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm also you can shrink and expand rhythmic patterns. < 1322836563 336239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could combine two rhythms serial (basically end to end) and also have the result be the same duration as the originally, basically doubling the speed of both. < 1322836609 711997 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm pretty sure these notions of serial and parallel exist elsewhere. If you model rhythms as a linked list, then the serial combinator is just (++) in Haskell. < 1322836636 767723 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you work hard on this, you might successfully get hired by whoever puts those bland pop tunes on the radios < 1322836645 306417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1322836653 54756 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to algorithmically generate pop? sounds... uh... good < 1322836670 407309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would change pop forever by NOT USING FUCKING 4/4 TIME SIGNATURE FOR EVERYTHING
< 1322836672 596150 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds profitable. And Orwellian < 1322836699 539823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah why is 4/4 so popular. Nothing wrong with 2/4, 3/4, 2/3 and so on IMO < 1322836707 198153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taylor Swift's latest single will be 5/4 7/4 5/4 < 1322836713 506708 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't even use time signatures any more! They steal time signatures from older tunes. < 1322836726 778164 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, just 5-7-5, the denominator is irrelevant to the actual meter) < 1322836727 316811 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at breakbeats < 1322836766 891681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibonacci time. 1-1-2-3-5 < 1322836789 181262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could have like, i,j-Fibonacci time. < 1322836804 233263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :i and j being the interval you want to use. < 1322836819 615691 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. :P < 1322836843 878866 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use nothing but concatenated permutations of a set of tones. Oh wait. < 1322836861 589390 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think sofic shift spaces are like the two-sided infinite generalization of regular languages < 1322836889 471070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Tool song "Lateralus" has one part where the syllables in each measure of lyrics follow the pattern: 1 1 2 3 5 8 5 3 < 1322836905 205104 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a finite automaton, but it never stops nor has it ever started < 1322836948 983463 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they are exactly the subshifts whose language is regular, and a regular language that's factor closed and extendable gives a sofic shift < 1322836961 463151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I think I'll use subsequences selected from an infinite continuum of sinusoids. < 1322836975 731721 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You mean a duracell-powered finite automaton? < 1322836979 60273 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my definition makes more sense in symbolic dynamics < 1322836982 535608 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: pretty much < 1322836983 9429 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1322836990 491539 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it's mostly used < 1322837005 631839 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it's the closure of sft's under factors < 1322837078 69561 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Festival pronounces "Phantom_Hoover" as "phantom-underscore-hoover". < 1322837151 531716 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that how everyone pronounces Phantom_Hoover? < 1322837161 529361 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shockingly, no < 1322837172 317280 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce it as "Wally" < 1322837191 909759 :oerjan!oerjan@129.241.210.46 QUIT :Quit: ORLY? < 1322837196 518615 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I pronounce "Wally" as "[;[8]]&*]6" < 1322837211 344852 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Some pronounce it 'asshole'." No, I mean, I wouldn't spell out the underscore if someone told me to read these IRC logs out loud. < 1322837232 902999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl [;[8]]&*]6 < 1322837233 310471 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number found where operator expected at /tmp/input.7581 line 1, near "*]6" < 1322837240 342650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl [;[8]]&*] < 1322837240 646916 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.7641 line 1, near "[;" < 1322837244 545632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl [[8]]&*] < 1322837248 34124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1322837304 247744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was /almost/ valid Perl. :P < 1322837335 170251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print *] < 1322837335 514343 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*main::] < 1322837360 868510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print *]{SCALAR} < 1322837361 232726 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCALAR(0x7f7155eaebf8) < 1322837368 516831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print ${*]{SCALAR} < 1322837368 826462 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Missing right curly or square bracket at /tmp/input.7956 line 1, at end of line < 1322837369 864281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1322837396 215848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print ${*]{SCALAR}} < 1322837396 502577 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.010001 < 1322837443 771995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ais523: have you ever found a use for typeglobs now that Perl 5 introduced refs? < 1322837471 579520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: injecting variables into other package's symbol tables; this makes the most sense in a library designed to generate code < 1322837490 167065 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print []|*] < 1322837490 482735 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksi::}7f625ec6ed48) < 1322837515 213384 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't, but I haven't been doing very "deep" Perl either. < 1322837516 42986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you write a library which adds extra functions to packages that reference it < 1322837524 883184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wait, how does that work? < 1322837537 109759 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just bitwise-ors the bytes. < 1322837539 960003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it's a reference bitwise-ored with a symbol table entry < 1322837550 614073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, err, what? < 1322837551 239044 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of "*main::]" and "ARRAY(0xwhatever)". < 1322837561 959323 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [[8]]&*] < 1322837568 226418 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1322837577 610315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print [[8]]|*] < 1322837577 862695 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksi::}7fdd767b69e8) < 1322837592 527975 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The anded version starts with a null byte, sadly, so EgoBot won't print it. < 1322837604 911819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid C. < 1322837676 907199 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1322837697 739404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is there anyway to enfroce a bit width of 8 on Perl scalar values? < 1322837716 515537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to play around with a simple 8-bit synthesis in Perl. I could just use C but.... why not use Perl instead if I can. :P < 1322837746 782837 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1322837750 605650 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know; they *could've* made "use integer" take a bit-width (like "use integer 8;"), but it doesn't. < 1322837762 392014 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D2AF.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322837771 498690 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just &0xff everywhere, of course. < 1322837844 692037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a possibility < 1322837866 632274 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think is a bit weird is how "use integer" makes the always-integral bitwise things (&, |, ^, ~, <<, >>) use signed integers instead of the unsigned ones they usually use. < 1322837906 276679 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $a = ~0; { use integer; $b = ~0; } print "a $a, b $b"; < 1322837906 617682 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 18446744073709551615, b -1 < 1322837933 573064 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it makes some amount of sense, I just think unsigned integers are somehow more... integery. < 1322837940 544081 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, *that* probably doesn't make any sense. < 1322837943 423954 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322837959 942587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie and his arbitrary notions of integeriness < 1322837984 256572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mayb "use integer" is like saying "use /all/ the integers" < 1322838022 353179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even those negative ones. < 1322838046 991129 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I find strange about bitwise operators in high-level languages is that normally those languages don't specify anything about the bit composition of values. < 1322838053 465542 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems out of place. < 1322838171 592726 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative integers? someone still believes in those?? :D < 1322838185 861146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..? < 1322838195 61340 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, that article that supposedly proved peano axioms are inconsistent, it was retracted and there's no trace of it anywhere :D < 1322838205 901229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1322838219 26462 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the revelation was simply too shocking < 1322838230 580351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had to be concealed. < 1322838231 113655 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if you multiply two negative integers, you get a positive one, that's fucking ridiculous < 1322838237 162093 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can anyone think that's true < 1322838242 431616 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..... < 1322838248 378981 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore there are no negative integers < 1322838254 197013 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahaha < 1322838264 82235 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> bitSize (1 :: Integer) < 1322838265 98240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it would make sense if the result continued to be negative.. < 1322838265 257842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Data.Bits.bitSize(Integer) < 1322838269 84706 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was actually an argument used when these were introduced < 1322838269 985683 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, it has no size. :/ < 1322838296 619382 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then who knows what would happen when you tried to multiply a negative and a positive.. < 1322838300 656329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if negative * negative = negative < 1322838308 855431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ * - = ..... +-? < 1322838313 879778 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was really no concept of a mathematical object back then < 1322838323 146268 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322838325 41724 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :another proof < 1322838329 3973 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that they don't exist < 1322838335 946587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no you could totally do it that way < 1322838342 679479 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that + * - = +- < 1322838344 488262 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhow, i have to go to a party 8Z < 1322838348 201914 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1322838355 899537 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1322838359 118502 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol THE SOCIALITE < 1322838361 69453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye. < 1322838393 926849 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol the SOCIALIST < 1322838410 875799 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "socialite" is the no-sugar version of a "socialist". < 1322838416 321665 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ais523: conjecture with me what would happen if you made multiplication of a positive number and a negative number have two possible results < 1322838465 788301 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ * - * - < 1322838506 828604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyhow, i have to go to a party 8Z < 1322838507 515961 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1322838512 743509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a running man smiley < 1322838520 989768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's still commutative I think.. < 1322838554 393474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can smileys be commutative? < 1322838561 262266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're running yes < 1322838563 725548 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're commuting somewhere < 1322838570 270278 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not what I was talking about obviously :P < 1322838634 818163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er.... no maybe it's not commutative < 1322838656 842833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 * -3 * -4 evaluating left to right < 1322838665 73670 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-6 * -4 < 1322838678 798295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's still just... +-24 < 1322838704 476044 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure it's not +--24. < 1322838706 910397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though there are three results two of them are the same < 1322838727 377964 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you did it that way then it would result in it being non-comutative I think < 1322838731 473313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then < 1322838740 657247 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :-4 * -3 * 2 < 1322838744 170366 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the Copenhagen interpretation of arithmetic < 1322838757 536543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluating left to right, would produce just +-24 < 1322838770 226078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of +--24 < 1322838774 626299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNLESS < 1322838778 288692 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :- * - = -- < 1322838783 899090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... okay nevermind < 1322838789 231998 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw this direction of thought < 1322838797 62248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only have +, -, and +- < 1322838798 367792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :LO < 1322838802 799848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/LO/:P/ < 1322838825 937176 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lo, there are many planets in the archipelago of worlds. < 1322838830 969897 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low colon pee < 1322838873 200493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I affiliate myself with madmen. < 1322838903 988892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/affiliate myself/confederate/ < 1322838909 210422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWWW YEAH +1 WORD CHOICE < 1322838945 700415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inb4 "not +-1 word choice" < 1322838950 834389 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something similar < 1322838952 168225 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and, in turn, many archipelagos on the planets. < 1322838971 249297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dude what if there are universe archipelagos < 1322838985 65185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Univarchipelagos. < 1322839005 982972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... like, univunivarchipelago < 1322839023 64697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT IF EVERYTHING SMALL IS A SMALL VERSION OF SOMETHING BIG. < 1322839069 696867 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an island in the sea around here, on which there's a lake, in which there's a small islet, on which there's a puddle. (Didn't someone make a comic out of this already?) < 1322839103 108667 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That island must make great target practice for bomber pilots < 1322839105 275462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, careful now, too much of that kind of thinking and you're ruining Minecraft's terrain gen. < 1322839147 802269 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric is an peoplarchipelago < 1322839163 41991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people are CELL ARCHIPELAGOS < 1322839164 750985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg < 1322839167 37977 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zaaaaah < 1322839526 797439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any four-signed number systems out there? < 1322839735 599794 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a four-signed number would mess up 1 as the multiplicative identity < 1322839741 817097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 would still be the additive identity though < 1322839848 398154 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just kept 1 as the multiplicative identity and made multiplication asymmetric < 1322840554 500485 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1322840795 851655 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322841372 325059 :MSleep!~fyrc@or-67-238-19-212.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1322841953 527419 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322841997 917186 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram blog on the fold function: "It shows unusual mastery of functional programming constructs to achieve a beautiful graphic result." < 1322842152 935894 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322842504 730098 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1322842639 676099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1322842666 548521 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you're in my top two people who are, or I think are, in Birmingham < 1322842671 823402 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holloo. < 1322842690 506717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: there's quite a lot of evidence that I'm usually in Birmingham < 1322842694 63568 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you're my favourite person in Edinburgh. By a long way < 1322842699 749626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that doesn't imply I'm in Birmingham right now, it makes it quite a bit more likely < 1322842726 379716 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only conclude that you either a) hate someone else in Edinburgh or b) aren't very good at being pedantic. < 1322842739 904761 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know many Edinburghians < 1322842747 9363 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much only you < 1322842797 238008 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, only you < 1322842797 300092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly Alexander McCall Smith < 1322842833 112139 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recognise the name, and I'm not entirely sure it's as an author. < 1322842869 947732 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably just as an author, actually. < 1322842903 911744 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1322842904 913831 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did the 44 Scotland Street and Number 1 Lady's Decective Agency books < 1322842907 638657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two of those names are kind-of familiar to me < 1322842937 590415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be extremely surprised if neither 'Alexander' nor 'Smith' were familiar to you. < 1322843001 974633 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1322843016 194073 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mum met him once when he came to Hexham < 1322843016 325999 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the other person who lives in Birmingham who I have heard of is possibly the author of Gunnerkrigg Court < 1322843030 949809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322843041 318873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are quite a lot of famous people from Birmingham, because it's quite large < 1322843051 345634 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, they're not generally famous /for/ being from Birmingham < 1322843082 672175 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I'm confused. < 1322843093 170304 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I change the source of mueval to import some modules < 1322843099 861390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I run the build script to install it < 1322843104 505345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.... nothing changed? < 1322843122 978399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh possibly the wrong mueval. < 1322843209 918309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, no < 1322843311 913906 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1322843320 686938 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there we go < 1322843326 848074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to do Setup copy instead of install for some reason? < 1322843718 883175 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322845236 235053 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322845492 70320 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-80-70.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1322846756 417601 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322846926 601797 :elliott_!elliott@95.149.243.54 NICK :elliott < 1322846929 406676 :elliott!elliott@95.149.243.54 QUIT :Changing host < 1322846929 460250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322847408 681283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:30:46: elliott_: is how you prevent Perl from interpolating in a shell command < 1322847408 854837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:31:06: if you're using system or whatever else you would just pass a single quoted string obviously. < 1322847411 687120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that is not the problem < 1322847421 38563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: how do i pass args in a list like python subprocess < 1322847514 902284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1322847515 562063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1322847558 911802 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um... < 1322847566 157735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like how? < 1322847568 909109 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember subprocess. < 1322847579 300300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1322847579 644336 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the hardest language to debug? < 1322847584 64191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ls', '-l', 'filename with spaces' < 1322847590 798309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is necessary to avoid shell injection < 1322847595 722580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you want system? < 1322847601 93077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or exec, depending on if you want to wait or not. < 1322847611 845999 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :system waits for the child to finish, exec doesn't < 1322847617 261088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Malbolge? < 1322847629 769023 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i guess i agree < 1322847629 997692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good IDE would help, though < 1322847633 777222 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1322847646 495463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do I do perl's `...` but with an argv instead of a string or do i have to emulaet it myself < 1322847646 958646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing both original and normalized views of memory at once, and probably encryption chains too < 1322847651 124184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's not system < 1322847662 588099 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be done with exec but that's a painfully low-level interface < 1322847669 582329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's no operator for doing that straight off, I don't think < 1322847676 336950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's almost certainly a library, probably a standard one < 1322847684 428288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, what about piped open? < 1322847692 386188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used it, but I think that's what you need < 1322847693 998390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that look like '|foo bar' < 1322847697 301685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not an argv < 1322847717 522455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there's a four-or-more arg version of open < 1322847729 834916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does take an argv as the extra arguments at the end < 1322847753 260674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1322847755 446891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you want to pass the argv directly.... < 1322847759 673010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :open my $fh, '-|', 'somecommand', @argv; < 1322847772 360139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then $fh is its stdout and you can just read it via the normal means < 1322847777 101913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1322847781 811864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds doable < 1322847906 542440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does the regular Chrome restart
< 1322847926 96975 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, when would you use CReal? < 1322847940 572334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you want computable reals < 1322847951 183213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't know whether you do or not, you don't < 1322847964 154067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would basically be to avoid floating point errors? < 1322847969 946873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1322847973 630833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Rational < 1322847997 197457 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would basically be to avoid floating point errors when you're not dealing with rational numbers? < 1322848008 752858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are dealing with rational numbers < 1322848011 826890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :floats are an approximation of rationals < 1322848015 827565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if it's referring to all computable reals, it only work properly on irrational numbers < 1322848018 692457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*works < 1322848027 414663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? < 1322848030 473959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :computable reals that happen to be equal to integers can't actually be converted to decimal expansion < 1322848037 67094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still compute with them < 1322848044 348798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, I don't know what you're talking about < 1322848047 870093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't do < or > on computable reals unless the numbers happen to actually be different < 1322848049 703386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CReal can output approximate decimals just fine < 1322848053 439304 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what about pi? < 1322848057 61441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's got nothing to do with decimal expansion < 1322848059 878153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if your question involves "avoid", "errors", you don't want CReal < 1322848060 330263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's irrational and approximated by float. < 1322848067 198420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: unless you're a mathematician, you don't want CReal < 1322848068 630751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm thinking of infinite-precision real numbres < 1322848072 434193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*numbers < 1322848074 446076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a theoretical CSist < 1322848082 196140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I pretend to be one of those? < 1322848089 454953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nobody uses the infinite-digit representation < 1322848090 820160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no. < 1322848090 912899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1322848094 980393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually have no use case at the moment. < 1322848099 529911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: here's some things CReal can't do: < 1322848099 583790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was merely curious < 1322848102 836949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: terminate when you do (a == a) < 1322848110 720018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: terminate when you do (a > a) < 1322848114 922359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've been to seminars where infinite-digit representation was involved < 1322848115 276520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: terminate when you do (a < a) < 1322848129 40874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the main difficulty, as you're mentioning there, is comparing two numbers that happen to be equal < 1322848135 583830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the main difficulty is arithmetic < 1322848137 876689 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean /always/ terminate right? < 1322848141 172575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a property of the computable reals < 1322848141 435332 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let a = 1.23 :: CReal in a == a < 1322848141 821816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no < 1322848142 599741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1322848146 182836 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's a cheat < 1322848149 497675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no, you get an infinite loop whenever you compare a number to itself < 1322848154 262372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CReal's (==) instance just does it to an approximation < 1322848160 621667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1322848167 189534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I guess it's approximating with the decimal expansions too? < 1322848168 728045 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure that's Few Digits' CReal < 1322848174 370727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, there's always a chance that the last digit is wrong? < 1322848177 870982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1322848203 10616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, um, you can always take a CReal to within a given precision < 1322848207 307090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "pi to 0.0000001" < 1322848228 15122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, and your result will have more digits than you asked for, with the last potentially being wrong < 1322848236 73978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't say "pi to 8 decimal places", though < 1322848252 571504 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they should be renamed to "undecidably equal reals" < 1322848260 223962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can because pi is irrational, but you couldn't if there was a chance that the number was actually accurate to 8 decimal places < 1322848270 305685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you act like you were expecting computable reals to be useful for computation < 1322848295 177106 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. < 1322848301 369767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi ::CReal < 1322848302 628562 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841972 < 1322848305 832839 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :delicious cereal < 1322848327 58516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sourcereal.com/ < 1322848335 125897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: such a good site < 1322848360 36336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so CReal isn't good for like... high precision math because it doesn't terminate often? < 1322848376 95406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: even if computable reals were useful for computation, Few Digits is incredibly slow < 1322848382 647228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as are all the implementatinos, because... they're not useful for computation < 1322848393 397562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's theory. unless you're a theorist, you don't care. < 1322848402 284274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Few Digits is not fast. Few Digits is part of my Ph. D. research. My goal is to implement an exact real arithmetic package in Coq that is proven correct (with respect to C-CoRN) and is sufficiently fast. The goal is to be fast enough to prove the inequalities required by Hales’s proof of Kepler’s Conjecture." < 1322848443 805953 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I only want to use CReal if I'm proving the inequalities required by Hale's proof of Kepler's Conjecture < 1322848447 234754 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it. < 1322848467 142685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've been to a seminar that was using computable reals to calculate pi to infinitely many decimal places < 1322848474 503172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we've been using the resulting program as a test of the hardware compiler < 1322848486 51983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that it's the sort of program that makes no sense to typical hardware compilers < 1322848488 563241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's, err, noteworthy enough for a seminar? < 1322848495 9224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that in five lines of Haskell < 1322848507 653292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was about computable reals, and just an example < 1322848511 302890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1322848543 529379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran the resulting VHDL for almost a week in a simulator on my laptop, it output the first 4 balanced binary digits < 1322848553 918734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote pi < 1322848554 631135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicksilver says: overlapping actually shatters the language into tiny inconsistent pieces, and incoherent files off the edges of the pieces so they don't even fit together any more. < 1322848556 824269 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1322848558 627916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote pi < 1322848560 791611 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :9) Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? not yet trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 14) First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, you know the rest. \ 15) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. \ 30) < 1322848562 598478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1322848564 382602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote digit < 1322848566 628354 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :427) meanwhile, I've been running a program for over 24 hours (getting close to 48 now) which is calculating digits of pi, in binary so far, it has found four digits I hope it will find the fifth some time this week \ 513) I actually had a Neopets account. I later gained a second digit in my age. \ 643) sadhu: it's been said that boole is the crowning jewel perched < 1322848569 809906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :427 < 1322848578 673021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1322848582 756361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it was in there somewhere < 1322848623 996502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the slowness is all the interpretation between paradigms < 1322848690 473086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :simulating FPGA behaviour on a CPU is slow, as they're rather different arches; doing single-threaded recursion on an FPGA isn't really faster than doing it on a CPU; and there was no memoization, in a program designed to run in a call-by-need language < 1322848702 777704 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, this spam is from "Google Incorporation. (info.google@msn.com)" < 1322848709 279502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OK, so Haskell isn't /technically required/ call-by-need, but what sane interp doesn't implement it like that?) < 1322848716 61809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that's pretty good < 1322848734 783069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (OK, so Haskell isn't /technically required/ call-by-need, but what sane interp doesn't implement it like that?) < 1322848740 593138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: speculative evaluation is pretty sane! < 1322848765 487011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, what's that, and how is it different from call-by-need? < 1322848783 169592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it isn't a complete strategy itself, it just refers to evaluating thunks even when they're not demanded < 1322848796 101758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking away sheepishly and pretending nothing happened if it ends up _|_ < 1322848809 218570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that you predict which thunks are going to be used in the future and evaluate them ahead of time in another thread < 1322848811 438742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus saving time later on < 1322848821 393130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1322848855 186004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that ends up somewhat concurrent if done well? < 1322848875 624597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could even not do it in a separate thread < 1322848880 309454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just have to bound the number of steps you take < 1322848894 921001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make sure you don't accidentally make a terminating program with a non-terminating subterm less terminating than you'd like < 1322848943 99258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it's not in a separate thread, there's no benefit to doing it out of order, is there? < 1322849024 281723 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what was your Perl question about, btw? < 1322849036 938675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you could change [high activity][long pause][result] into [halved activity][result] < 1322849047 40366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using every other cycle to reduce another complicated thunk < 1322849053 89211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1322849054 113565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will be forced afterwards < 1322849060 914516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get the result any faster, but it might look nicer to the user? < 1322849069 618887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, incremental results are a useful thing :) < 1322849080 885230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you wouldn't have wanted to get no output until the program found every digit of pi, right? < 1322849098 127746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wouldn't give you any output any earlier < 1322849106 751865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just delay some of the outputs < 1322849111 205511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: well, you could change [high activity][long pause][result] into [halved activity][result] < 1322849115 152298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the high activity outputs constantly < 1322849115 420730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do that just as easily with a postprocessor < 1322849117 859734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as does the result < 1322849137 133623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, so you can get a postprocessor that just hides the results until it's ready to feed one to the user and make it look like they're coming constantly < 1322849150 166047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322849153 612438 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1322849167 609402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your argument seems to imply threads are useless on a uniprocessor < 1322849171 447804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine most people wouldn't find that useful, but in case it's required… < 1322849179 541421 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1322849188 540867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: his question was about why Perl is so awesome and why he hasn't been using it since he was 8. < 1322849195 256304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, we were specifically discussing the single-threaded case < 1322849211 486290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can agree with a concurrent but uniprocessor case, potentially, although I think any performance gains will be marginal < 1322849427 557650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if strictness analysis worked perfectly always. < 1322849455 959670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it can't because doing so would be uncomputable? < 1322849478 473061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, umm, what's the difference between doing A, B, A, B, and doing A and B in threads on a uniprocessor machine? < 1322849537 860199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because doing A and B in threads can just do "A then B", or it can interleave if necessary to do something like benefit from pipeline stalls < 1322849546 717732 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you can get pretty close to perfect.. < 1322849568 240258 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a microoptimisation < 1322849570 933892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no you can't < 1322849572 230782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: indeed; you can write infinite loop checkers in practice that catch the majority of accidental infinite loops < 1322849584 359265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictness analysis is harder than detecting infinite loops imo < 1322849590 67205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. < 1322849591 47051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're not going to be able to use them for solving the world's big fundamental problems < 1322849597 533515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's incredibly easy to change semantics < 1322849637 668685 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this sort of thing's what my PhD is about, transforming programs without changing their semantics < 1322849654 955677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you have a really good type system for the transformation (which needn't be the same as that of the underlying language), it's not too bad < 1322849660 977235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "this sort of thing" -- you took a large leap in generality there :P < 1322849668 908544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed :) < 1322849677 782579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictness analysis results in rather simple transformations, they're just really tricky to find < 1322849828 780172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:35:49: psh, come on. you can totally non-deterministically reverse to multiple past images. < 1322849828 959436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:35:50: elliott_: I'm surprised that you're surprised at that; it's become more and more common recently < 1322849829 12708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:35:55: I'm upset by it, but not surprised < 1322849831 455567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't keep up with PC gaming < 1322849834 805394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:36:12: what's wrong with requiring Steam? it's free right? < 1322849848 732902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: must be running to play the game, requires network connection to play the game, forced updates < 1322849852 140160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: DRM < 1322849895 922391 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network connection isn't required < 1322849914 47348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I haven't heard good things about the "offline mode" < 1322849915 166883 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor, in all cases, is keeping Steam running; you can often run the game exe directly < 1322849923 518874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mostly what I've heard is "it doesn't work") < 1322849923 699872 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's worked for me the few times I've used it < 1322849962 757118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, my other objections are still relevant :P < 1322849977 45631 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forced updates is the only relevant one < 1322849995 257873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :existence of DRM is often relevant < 1322850012 925128 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took "DRM" as a summary of the previous points < 1322850038 167299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, the fundamental concept of DRM is that it prevents you copying the game to a different system < 1322850046 566457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the previous points are consistent with that, but don't imply it < 1322850048 762312 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which Steam doesn't < 1322850057 733255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does if you don't own it < 1322850084 289033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It was a summary, yes < 1322850090 923248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another objection: You're not allowed to sell your copy of the game < 1322850096 491089 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or, more generally, share it) < 1322850134 681681 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :True enough < 1322850155 972200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think is an objection to "Steam has DRM" as much as it is "games are copyrighted and closed source" < 1322850167 750412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Even more generally, I object to buying a physical box containing what is essentially a right to rent the game out :P < 1322850178 805501 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Uhh, no. < 1322850182 74812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Selling games is not illegal. < 1322850197 265805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can buy a non-Steam game box and sell it and the recipient can play the game. < 1322850199 989783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I did just that in the case of Neverwinter Nights; went to a shop and bought the Windows version for a license to download the Linux version (from the manufacturers) < 1322850202 96245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can buy a non-Steam game box and give it to someone else and the recipient can play the game. < 1322850210 651526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of these things are possible with a Steam box. < 1322850247 806872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At least you could move those bits around and have them still work without them being tied to an account < 1322850250 650058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1322850259 10226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Although selling them would be illegal because [copyright law] < 1322850268 190297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1322850291 392005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's pretty impressive that copyright has managed to convince people that wanting to sell something you bought is unreasonable because it's INFRINGEMENT, though < 1322850307 749002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked Borland's licenses; they were pretty much "please treat this software as a physical object; it's just fine for you to give or sell it to someone else but you must delete all your copies in the process" < 1322850345 610440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it's more reasonable than most licenses, but it smells of lawyers demanding that bits be coerced into being like boxes < 1322850359 875387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they generally had a clause that you couldn't use the product to make another product that competed with itself < 1322850374 307315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what would happen if you just gave people a license to do absolutely anything with the downloaded binaries
< 1322850375 723395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, say, you couldn't produce a commercial C compiler using Borland C < 1322850380 353207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it'd make it legal to put it up on a torrent site < 1322850384 91204 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll end up on a torrent site /anyway/ < 1322850397 985476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it doesn't noticeably increase piracy and the like, it sounds like a good idea < 1322850404 36148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of all the hassle it eliminates < 1322850405 495538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm upset that game companies don't sell legal ROMs < 1322850413 311426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know quite a few people who'd buy them; I probably would < 1322850421 616610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, console game companies) < 1322850428 73876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322850441 898683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately that runs into the problem that ROMs have tons of formats < 1322850444 266650 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: many years ago atari licensed some of their arcade roms to a company called star roms.. I bought a few of them < 1322850444 352755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ROM is going to get dumped anyway, so why not give a legal access route for it rather than force people who want it to get it illegally? < 1322850450 953833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many of them are bad (= can't accurately represent the source media) < 1322850461 120654 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the chances of the game company picking the right one are very small :P < 1322850468 416335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*games < 1322850469 517036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people would write converters < 1322850478 794369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't write a converter from a broken format to a working one < 1322850484 366505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1322850486 137100 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what happened.. star roms handled the formatting of it for mame or whatever < 1322850497 654407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume they'd pick a format that contained all necessary info < 1322850500 275835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for modern roms you just need a memory dump. Much harder for snes era and older of course. < 1322850503 611993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: consider that the vastly most common SNES ROM format is broken < 1322850507 818662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, *formats < 1322850518 305774 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to my understanding < 1322850522 870915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, what info does it miss? < 1322850522 962366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1322850531 283347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ask pikhq for details < 1322850549 215070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bos.github.com/criterion/ oh my god this is so pretty < 1322850583 347147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valve Corporation President Gabe Newell also stated "most DRM strategies are just dumb" because they only decrease the value of a game in the consumer's eyes. < 1322850586 804985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1322850600 189304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, is that using something like 200-space indents? < 1322850610 296999 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1322850620 250831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me take a screenshot < 1322850666 14789 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuance's "Dragon Dictation" for iPhone has funny license terms: "You may not: -- (i) use the Service for purposes of comparison with or benchmarking against products or services made available by third parties." So you can't compare it with other iDevice speech recognition things in order to pick one of them to use. < 1322850689 372192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ... wtf < 1322850690 229353 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's up with all the letters blending together at the bottom... < 1322850702 311016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: where? < 1322850706 583366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's a standard linux/chromium font rendering problem < 1322850713 560591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try Ctrl + Ctrl - < 1322850720 320522 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the link? works fine in firefox < 1322850734 658509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh weird. < 1322850744 412660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought that was going to do... nothing, but it fixed it. < 1322850749 179612 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "no reverse engineering" clause is particularly broad too: "You may not -- decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer or otherwise attempt to derive, reconstruct, identify or discover any source code, underlying ideas, or algorithms, of the Software or Service by any means". If you're literal enough, you can't even just idly wonder what they've done, because it would be "identifying underlying ideas". < 1322850754 560118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, imgur got stuck at 79% < 1322850757 323272 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of linux.. I switched to lubuntu (lxde) and I like it < 1322850760 704449 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ompldr.org? < 1322850763 563950 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Identifying would be getting it correct < 1322850767 524558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's that site about? < 1322850777 587336 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can wonder as long as you wonder about the wrong things < 1322850777 730632 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Okay, "attempting to identify". < 1322850781 692803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hardcore pornography and warez, obviously < 1322850790 687254 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, true. Heh. < 1322850792 657119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322850796 83780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just describe it < 1322850802 345013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, file hosting < 1322850808 298881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not hardcore pornography and warez < 1322850811 955755 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but close enough < 1322850835 787249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like JavaScript, or a similar language; it starts beyond the left edge of the screen, and the first line is ','","");this.element_.insertAdjacentHTML("BeforeEnd",AU.join(""))};M.stroke=function(AM){var m=10;var AN=10;var AE=5000;var AG={x:null,y:null};var AL={x:null,y:null};for(var AH=0;AHAL.x){AL.x < 1322850838 303257 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Someone at work had tried to use it (they added the Finnish option just recently), got some bad results for complicated words with lots of suffixes, and wondered about the language model; felt tempted to say "no, stop! you're attempting to identify ideas!" < 1322850847 288000 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where is that from? < 1322850847 805656 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha top files.. 2 are ponies < 1322850848 756479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the second line, and all the lines on the first screen, start level with the H in AHAL < 1322850852 379355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: elliott's link < 1322850855 272737 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no? < 1322850861 401842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what browser are you using < 1322850862 516943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s.getCoords_(AH+AJ,AF+AV);AS.x=z.max(AS.x,AR.x,AP.x,AL.x);AS.y=z.max(AS.y,AR.y,AP.y,AL.y);AU.push("padding:0 ",K(AS.x/D),"px ",K(AS.y/D),"px 0;filter:progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Matrix(",p.join(""),", sizingmethod='clip');")}else{AU.push("top:",K(AW.y/D),"px;left:",K(AW.x/D),"px;")}AU.push(' ">','","");this.element_.insertAdjacentHTML(" < 1322850868 882023 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looks like your browser misparses html < 1322850869 355873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Firefox < 1322850884 371139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that stuff doesn't show up in my firefox window. Nor in view source < 1322850890 827969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :function t(Z){switch(Z){case"butt":return"flat";case"round":return"round";case"square":default:return"square"}} < 1322850892 777670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: then a screenful down from that, it starts even /further/ to the right, about one and a half screenfuls of horizontal scorlling < 1322850892 952666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a good function < 1322850901 812076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: run it in a non-broken browser < 1322850905 105585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the whole page is a script though < 1322850907 235516 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*load < 1322850913 84673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no it's not < 1322850918 867485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the chart-drawing is < 1322850929 359730 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Chromium "let's mangle letters together" thing is slightly annoying. (I've been using Chromium lately because my Firefox got so full of tabs I haven't dared to restore-session it, and I don't want to be all ineiros about it.) < 1322850930 974566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I just right clicked and went "view source" < 1322850937 342686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :below that, about two screenfulls scrolling to the right, are the words "criterion performance measurements" in really large font < 1322850944 981460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can stop describing < 1322850956 442327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then various information, with a rather worrying amount of vertical spacing < 1322850961 699616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just amused that you found it all beautiful < 1322850962 477797 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which firefox version? < 1322850964 143056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it never used to happen to me before i switched to arch; I think Chrome might not have that problem somehow < 1322850968 863016 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because it doesn't look like that < 1322850970 307462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 3.6 < 1322850980 815669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha ha, I'm seeing something different to you and I think it looks nice < 1322850980 968674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is ancient! < 1322850984 291947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing! < 1322850985 604332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm on 8.0.1 < 1322850985 741791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in that case, why won't you believe me when I say github is broken? < 1322850988 995496 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemed to look okay for me.. ff 8 in linux < 1322850993 477186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"ragepat" < 1322850996 483589 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322850997 480251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"ragepart" < 1322851010 342745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me try on whatever luicd has < 1322851036 17872 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott fuckfacer < 1322851036 321371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322851040 46007 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4ecf5.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1322851055 426049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ignore kallisti < 1322851055 776273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough privileges < 1322851059 241456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1322851065 466117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I tell it not to let kallisti @tell me? < 1322851069 771920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help tell < 1322851070 52652 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell . When shows activity, tell them . < 1322851079 884503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help commands < 1322851080 238126 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1322851083 952422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott -shooshpap- < 1322851084 268776 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1322851085 412770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list < 1322851085 762586 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS < 1322851087 711784 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what elliott just did reminds me of when I am trying to get off the phone with someone and saying the usual crap and the phone disconnects < 1322851089 65111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah it is broken on firefox 3.6 < 1322851099 825454 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I call back to say "bye", or just leave it at that? < 1322851100 93227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just upgrade already < 1322851108 117809 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4ecf5.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm html5 gepaart mit ein wenig krimineller energie.. enjoy ;) < 1322851112 443227 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4ecf5.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://homepage.alice.de/hagbard/disintegration.html < 1322851118 685196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :never call to say bye < 1322851152 230085 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't,, it's just awkward .. so rejoining irc to correct your /quit typo seems weird lol < 1322851153 217247 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in a modern browser it really has a very nice design < 1322851165 340042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: isn't being broken on a reasonably recent browser (Firefox 3.6 is reasonably recent, even if the version numbers have been going stratospheric recently to hide it) a sign of a badly-designed website? < 1322851199 972654 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a clever way to format my code for my IOCCC entry. < 1322851200 252651 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox 3.6 is two years old < 1322851202 907744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe. But then it might be a bug in firefox 3.6 < 1322851213 318102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: right, it's only two years old < 1322851214 69936 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work in ie 6 < 1322851214 788467 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking I'll just indent it nicely and say "look: even indented nicely it's incomprehensible" < 1322851218 992974 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kidding, didn't test that) < 1322851220 511375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think you should design for anything but the official specs. < 1322851230 793616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322851231 992054 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if a browser is buggy is it not the problem of the web designer < 1322851233 420050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: It was a /part typo! < 1322851234 132099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1322851243 703562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: this is a quit typo! < 1322851255 587375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is the problem of the browser programmers < 1322851257 727006 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But latest 3.6.x is less than a month old. < 1322851265 871574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you disagree about that? < 1322851267 529724 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3.6.24, Nov 08.) < 1322851273 409770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've had the best indentation idea ever for my entry < 1322851274 737302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's managed to confuse every prettypogram I've tried yet < 1322851277 978040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps; I'm not convinced that the website is following the specs, though < 1322851292 36950 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Since < 3.6.10 they've all been only security updates < 1322851296 746971 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I could throw it into the w3c validator. Not sure it does js < 1322851316 577823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it shouldn't be displaying scripts it doesn't understand < 1322851324 21441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1322851324 129727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it isn't < 1322851325 222445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is; your browser misparses comments. < 1322851328 617731 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: An update is an update is an update. < 1322851329 728997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should gracefully degrade for people with scripts turned off (I have scripts turned off) < 1322851336 669561 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: glad you found my analysis amusing tho < 1322851339 703400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, aha, I think I might know what the problem is < 1322851343 398375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"118 Errors, 5 warning(s) " < 1322851358 842163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the page have a "comment" starting < 1322924378 625176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--visible text on [[Bitonic sorter]] < 1322924388 823155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1322924399 721521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's push it for featured article status. < 1322924427 1540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that /is/ correct comment syntax in Wikipedia, so presumably someone escaped it, perhaps by accident < 1322924444 322792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's in a code block < 1322924494 668958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, that probably explains it < 1322924500 585580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrbca4gZCE1qdtcgvo1_500.jpg < 1322924508 774358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to know how MediaWiki parses extension tags (such as GeSHi's ) < 1322924525 581755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can easily imagine that it would pass comments literally to the extension without parsing them < 1322924658 456744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should, is valid code in many languages < 1322924664 759193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as HTML < 1322924676 668039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1322924700 240337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a syntax error in INTERCAL, though < 1322924810 234787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's valid, and potentially even useful, brainfuck, though < 1322925085 522675 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let so it = isn't in 1 3 < 1322925086 563925 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1322925386 196871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'd call that valid but not potentially useful < 1322925538 781801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of au pairs, especially those who are new to the role, don't know what to expect when they get started do the job with a new host household. Even though your principal duty would be to care for the little ones, there are also a array of other household tasks you could be asked to do. The aim of this article is to give you a fast insight into the forms of tasks you might be anticipated or asked to do. < 1322925548 797508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: --> is a perfectly plausible operator name < 1322925559 430340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but ) < 1322925564 78135 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322925569 327925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1322925582 525987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't expect a parse error from that; is it the starting with - that matters? < 1322925590 969198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a b -> a --> b < 1322925592 392910 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t t1. t -> t1 -> t < 1322925596 173298 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _should_ be legal < 1322925606 940650 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (--+test) < 1322925608 52570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322925611 307815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and that verifies that there's an --> operator already, which doesn't surprise me < 1322925625 318326 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just lambdabot failing < 1322925626 328767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (-*) < 1322925627 572369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `-*' < 1322925632 789047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :… < 1322925635 887837 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi handles it correctly < 1322925638 697438 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (--test) < 1322925639 945272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322925648 211449 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (-+-test) < 1322925649 570913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `-+-' < 1322925649 714146 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `test' < 1322925662 675431 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is breaking the comment parsing rules < 1322925675 172621 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _shouldn't_ be a comment < 1322925680 780792 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(--test) is supposed to be a parse error < 1322925682 520458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it seems to get confused by -- < 1322925684 256085 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(--+test) and (-->) aren't < 1322925734 375736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which given that that's comment syntax, is a plausible thing for it to be confused by < 1322925778 106464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I think that for a language with -- comments, the correct comment introducer should be "-- " with the space < 1322925784 221475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you get too many clashes < 1322925791 892901 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (--) < 1322925793 164533 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) < 1322925799 970479 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : yep, but < 1323729444 7735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Uhh, no < 1323729448 188480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That won't handle slowdown < 1323729480 474431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not releasing until I'm faster than CCBI on all the programs I can find that don't run in less than half a millisecond :P < 1323729561 357213 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaporware by design < 1323729574 711100 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to stop until I can search through the logs for me saying "I may" and can say, "I did!" < 1323729578 273494 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly < 1323729593 17880 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop what, do I hear you ask? < 1323729604 969938 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Ngevd> .*I may < 1323729606 362485 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saying "I may"? < 1323729610 290134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Taneb too < 1323729618 330559 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-11.txt:15:58:15: During that, I think I may have worked out a way to do rudimentary arithmetic < 1323729621 218078 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Taneb> .*I may < 1323729627 201649 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-07-11.txt:15:27:10: I may make an esolang based on football (soccer) < 1323729646 196629 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first one was in my fervent bytepusher dream < 1323729655 296992 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was... yesterday < 1323729668 701668 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one, I don't remember < 1323729672 295313 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But was in... < 1323729678 906376 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :July!? < 1323729680 439599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe you have to scan a document with a phone number to contribute to tup. < 1323730201 552832 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my awful code is almost ready to be posted in here for... < 1323730206 648972 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help < 1323730227 644572 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323730232 996447 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to save it and see if it works < 1323730235 728420 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, monqy < 1323730264 266317 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, tiffany is now my strongest Pok�mon < 1323730289 126495 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :After she defeated the Mauville and Lavaridge gym leaders singlehandedly < 1323730300 818958 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just like that, tiffany's existence was given some justification. < 1323730371 975134 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I found Gregor on Spokeo. He's a married black male in his late 50s who lives in an apartment worth about $37,000. He did not go to college and works in sales. < 1323730378 934992 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :He lives in Detroit. < 1323730398 262126 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Ngevd> .*I may < 1323730403 740829 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-12.txt:22:40:04: `log Ngevd> .*I may < 1323730408 630627 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log Ngevd> .*I may < 1323730414 327291 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-10-04.txt:20:37:46: I may try to write a Fibonacci numbers thing in Brook < 1323730422 338889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Hey, I found Gregor on Spokeo. He's a married black male in his late 50s who lives in an apartment worth about $37,000. He did not go to college and works in sales. He lives in Detroit. < 1323730425 6122 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :761) Hey, I found Gregor on Spokeo. He's a married black male in his late 50s who lives in an apartment worth about $37,000. He did not go to college and works in sales. He lives in Detroit. < 1323730426 610975 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I did try to do that < 1323730427 781965 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think we might have found the wrong one. < 1323730430 613290 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't get very far < 1323730434 580378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 761 < 1323730437 508643 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* Hey, I found Gregor on Spokeo. He's a married black male in his late 50s who lives in an apartment worth about $37,000. He did not go to college and works in sales. He lives in Detroit. < 1323730440 199673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Hey, I found Gregor on Spokeo. He's a married black male in his late 50s who lives in an apartment worth about $37,000. He did not go to college and works in sales. He lives in Detroit. I... think we might have found the wrong one. < 1323730442 738457 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :761) Hey, I found Gregor on Spokeo. He's a married black male in his late 50s who lives in an apartment worth about $37,000. He did not go to college and works in sales. He lives in Detroit. I... think we might have found the wrong one. < 1323730468 908525 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, it says "To see all of Gregor Richards's personal information » Click Here". < 1323730477 339043 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just love how everyone's personal information is up for sale now. < 1323730563 556013 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah Gregor cannot be black, he looks nothing like Michael Jackson. < 1323730669 864173 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying all black people look alike? Michael Jackson looks nothing like Eminem. < 1323730695 934841 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just the skin color, of course < 1323730718 38879 :tswett!~Warrigal@thay.Stanford.EDU PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to doubt that everything in this channel is completely true and unmisleading. < 1323730734 514896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1323730748 579705 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: well we do occasionally get trolls, like that guy earlier < 1323730764 887133 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-228-21.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323730776 766521 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-254-246.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323731086 156627 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-93-115.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323731634 524699 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1323731636 980844 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323731964 321427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I like how your hostname is still "foobar". < 1323731967 711594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*username < 1323732321 891711 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7179.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323732382 738420 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's a good'n. < 1323732868 211463 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7179.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen and enjoy.. berlin! http://homepage.alice.de/hagbard/stadtkind_(barbara_morgenstern_remix).mp3 < 1323733137 699691 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-254-246.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1323733142 809535 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-5.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323733683 203644 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323734097 177409 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the DVD recorder is connected to itself, it allows to record a Macrovisioned VHS tape to DVD. < 1323734848 396502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: doop < 1323735256 511580 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323735540 791996 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-163.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323735555 909247 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7179.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323735556 85772 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-5.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323736049 402231 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323736165 608159 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323736188 176009 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-241-163.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323736631 683502 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :finish this analogy < 1323736644 994985 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christianity:Windows::Wicca:? < 1323736852 725243 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christianity has many distros < 1323736938 76623 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323737154 951140 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323737187 435092 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1323737493 255932 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323737554 197845 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323737630 949339 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323737877 747870 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yes, true, but ignore that for now. is has the property that (a) the majority of religion-users in the western world use it and (b) it is very much targeted at the lowest common denominator, although there is latent potential for power users as well. < 1323738256 548690 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame you didn't go with Scientology. < 1323738261 237694 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I could finish it so easily. < 1323738279 493022 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :::Scientology:LoseThos < 1323738354 236935 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to know which OS is so esoteric and obscure that only paganism suits it < 1323738378 656026 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to go with OS/2. < 1323738392 266505 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or perhaps FreeDOS. < 1323738436 566005 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but, it needs to be an os which claims to be the modern revival of an os which windows brutally crushed < 1323738465 471496 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :An OS/2 remake? < 1323738475 161388 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 is still maintained. < 1323738537 748260 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern Christianity has as many pagan elements as Christian elements < 1323738568 742270 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323739093 790547 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, reddit won't load, i haven't seen that in a while < 1323740185 957737 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about that BeOS remake? < 1323740336 322946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that BeOS really counts as "brutally crushed" in the "existed earlier but then" sense, more in the "tried to get going but then" one. < 1323740398 54679 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Yes, I can understand. The religions are based on older traditions so that includes Christian as well as pagan (for various reasons; you might learn on Wikipedia) < 1323740436 88749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use FreeDOS at a Roman Catholic education center. < 1323740855 42386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323740871 156400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:05:54: i want to know which OS is so esoteric and obscure that only paganism suits it < 1323740874 404841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paganism is "so esoteric and obscure"? < 1323740915 41216 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT TOTALLY IS < 1323740964 228646 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:06:18: I'm inclined to go with OS/2. < 1323740971 544480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: For some reason I want to say that OS/2 is Zoroastrianism. < 1323740974 151874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know little about both. < 1323740994 451034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:36:25: How about that BeOS remake? < 1323741015 225434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's called Haiku, dude, there's pretty much no chance it's not Buddhism? < 1323741332 147122 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. < 1323741402 409594 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. < 1323741410 838273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquoet A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. < 1323741412 760936 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: addquoet: not found < 1323741416 228976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. < 1323741418 479503 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :762) A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it. < 1323741425 189305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haiku - "I can't believe it's not but.. Buddha". < 1323741432 53300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: You should write a book and call it Everything I Know About Wicca I Learned From Scooby Doo. < 1323741484 263458 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323741563 129296 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any operating system connected to to some earlier system that was hunted down in a manner similar to a witch hunt? < 1323741604 900969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: All I can think of is if SCO suceeded in DESTROYING LINUX and then someone started developing it again decades later. < 1323741610 278910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That didn't happen though. (YET?) < 1323741621 829108 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I heard about wiccans form other places, but figured it was mostly generic pagan stuff. < 1323741628 887943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think operating systems are hunted a lot. < 1323741645 638584 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess I thought a lot of pagan stuff was connected to witches. < 1323741650 636053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're too boring, and there's a huge barrier to entry so obviously illegal stuff doesn't tend to happen. < 1323741665 218085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: Isn't "witch" just generic pagan stuff these days? :p < 1323741696 466457 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know, it's not the kind of tihng I keep up with. < 1323741709 69676 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is actually a witchcraft-themed linix, though. < 1323741770 224074 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it by looking up "Linux grimoire". < 1323741834 437710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just brings up Source Mage for me. < 1323741840 860415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that counts as "witchcraft-themed". < 1323741844 184556 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323741854 635563 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings friends. < 1323741868 395095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome thatmentat < 1323741871 139280 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1323741883 367117 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should point out that in some muslim states you can _still_ get executed for presumed witchcraft, i saw one mention from saudi arabia in a paper today < 1323741885 212827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is a `welcoming machine of ruthless efficiency
< 1323741905 249432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: We sure are unifying the two definitions of esoteric here. < 1323741905 622576 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it doens't seem like it's themed after ancient Persian scholars. < 1323741919 758436 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And apparently in Canada it is illegal to charge money for "witchcraft" stuff or something like that..... < 1323741953 691907 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In that case, you can probably unify a lot of stuff in certain ways for certain purposes < 1323741955 563069 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a chat room for programming languages? < 1323741955 833191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=1_Chat_Line&curid=4885&diff=26035&oldid=26034 one of our spambots just tweaked the colours it's using < 1323741963 541229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"naw, i think red is better here" < 1323741966 418577 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wrt that i read in britain (until recently?) it was not illegal to _be_ a witch but it was illegal to _pretend_ to be one < 1323741972 67416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: Yes. Even if it doesn't seem like it right now. < 1323741976 831561 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are you here for that, or the other kind of esoteric?) < 1323741979 561668 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-that < 1323741985 57454 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1323741988 88021 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-*-that < 1323741991 744706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well they might burn someone by mistake < 1323742005 614962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: Yes, it is a chat room for esoteric programming but we discuss a lot of things here anyways < 1323742005 791754 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came for the second. I haven't the patience to learn programming. < 1323742019 411954 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: you probably won't find it on freenode, then < 1323742022 361959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly technology-oriented < 1323742072 530873 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is mostly tech oriented? < 1323742078 609866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode, the IRC network you are on < 1323742087 777388 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1323742103 265840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you have a specific question (regardless of topic), you might ask. And then quit if you do not get an answer (unless it is a question about esoteric programming in which case stay) < 1323742157 453826 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: alas we have never learned of a good irc channel to recommend for those who come here expecting the other interpretation of esoteric < 1323742184 856571 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we should just make one and let them all trickle in, it'll be more active than this place within a year :P < 1323742192 511274 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1323742192 787790 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323742194 404239 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do that thing < 1323742201 543612 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use recommendations of other irc places though, even if not specifically esoterical. < 1323742207 145433 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized that if you define a monad transformer and/or comonad transformer then you can easily define return and extract as well the definition will always the be same: return = lift . return; extract = extract . lower; < 1323742216 394875 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well those guys who started #philosophy tried to do that, didn't they? how is it working? < 1323742223 510963 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :send people to irc.dal.net #esoteric < 1323742226 203012 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1323742229 390493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not #philosophy, is it? < 1323742233 19118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: Oh, is that active? < 1323742241 462064 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a year ago i think < 1323742244 381309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i thought it was _something_ like that... < 1323742245 863913 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than not existing < 1323742253 891972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Users on #Esoteric: elliott thatmentat QueenAqua @^roshi marduk666 @Venus666 VenusSatanas_ Trollfood ami- Cocytus hippl^ < 1323742255 973997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cocytus again! < 1323742263 452583 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that guy just join #esoteric on every server everywhere < 1323742276 484804 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8ACB8.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323742282 210069 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that list looks promising, at least :P < 1323742283 146428 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an IRC server too, however it has no channels what you want probably and hardly anyone is in there < 1323742289 212303 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatmentat: well, glad you've found somewhere < 1323742296 107338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: <^roshi> thing is there are several streams of alchemy < 1323742298 187170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: looks good :P < 1323742312 533006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lurks.
< 1323742328 359949 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about alchemy? < 1323742330 191810 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us know if anything above and beyond the usual pale of ridiculousness falls out < 1323742390 264856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: thatmentat is still here, you know! :P < 1323742427 380459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about alchemy? < 1323742461 5807 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's your point? < 1323742484 500406 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Zeroth to prove spontaneous human combustion wins | This is a programming channel; if you are looking for the other kind of esoteric you might try #esoteric on irc.dal.net | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323742505 244387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey i was going to _ask_ them first < 1323742514 653880 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :Zeroth to prove spontaneous human combustion wins | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323742515 353473 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well we can remove it again < 1323742533 180861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK that is good. But still we discuss a various a lot of things in here. < 1323742552 714176 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just joined ones that looked like they had people in them. < 1323742555 292482 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, figure out, should that message be there or not? Maybe it makes too long? Or other reason? < 1323742567 77635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION asks them
< 1323742568 754634 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was curious. < 1323742625 568821 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting response. I didn't think he would reject the idea elliott. < 1323742639 975584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was out of left field :P < 1323742640 894163 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But note, once someone accessed this channel, and then quit, and then I had something about astrology and then they could not have their question answered because they missed it. But still, notice that we have more mathematical points of view so they might not have understood the answer anyways (maybe). < 1323742667 21842 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : What are you talking about alchemy? <-- elliott was quoting an example message from the other #esoteric channel at dalnet < 1323742705 85061 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they refused? < 1323742713 425680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, the guy misunderstood what i said < 1323742715 926845 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323742737 226811 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "several streams of alchemy" mean anyways? Alchemy is what they did before they had proper science, they could do it like that they did not know things better or have better equipment to know better. Now we have chemistry < 1323742775 641039 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that there are several basic models for Alchemy I believe. < 1323742807 677477 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alchemy as was being discussed goes beyond simply trying to manipulate materials. < 1323742861 305805 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net." >wisdom/esoteric < 1323742863 563630 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323742867 532256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1323742870 59354 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net. < 1323742904 200102 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes that way might be good idea instead of topic message, I supppose. < 1323742924 46341 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you can make a shortcut for those kinds of informations message. < 1323742932 839381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that can successfully survive our constant topic changes is the log link :P < 1323742952 867582 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as i understand, alchemy sometimes has a strong spiritual component aside from the chemistry - basically you are supposed to transform yourself at the same time as you are learning how to transform materials < 1323742990 799309 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when put like that, it sounds like you could possibly even make a modern version based on actual chemistry < 1323743001 701421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm afraid not: "It must never be supposed that the practice of alchemy consists only in the exercise of the mind, will, and imagination, or that the products obtained are imaginary and intangible or invisible to mortal eyes." < 1323743011 206387 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a link posted in #esoteric while i was there :P < 1323743022 104162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you still need the physical materials, though. < 1323743037 431907 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "only" does not mean that it doesn't also involve that < 1323743042 921143 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, sometimes they did do spiritual things based on some ideas of alchemy. < 1323743046 928283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1323743048 683710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :must never be supposed < 1323743054 473435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i completely negated that meaning < 1323743059 986174 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it is "spiritual alchemy" instead of real alchemy. < 1323743095 57266 :xxDarkProphetxx!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi gaiz < 1323743113 654139 :xxDarkProphetxx!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1323743115 984797 :xxDarkProphetxx!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :kallisti < 1323743139 21941 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we have science so we don't need alchemy (except for the purpose of making up new alloys, sometimes, at least according to some opinions). < 1323743140 466098 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's /too/ much irony. I can't handle it) < 1323743231 417499 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: okay so I'm working on an IRC bot that is intended to assist tabletop RPGing over IRC. < 1323743232 828056 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever the discussion in here, it often involves some scientific and mathematical stuff, sometimes. Because this is how the people in this channel are, in general. < 1323743253 884410 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes I was doing so, too. I think one IRC server has a GS command to do that too < 1323743277 357752 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: should I use my native WoD terminology for concepts, or should I use D&D, or is there some standard terminology that isn't D&D? < 1323743293 874045 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people say "gamemaster" and "campaign" where I would say "storyteller" and "chronicle" I think. < 1323743305 473116 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I say "referee" in my opinion, at least. < 1323743316 617378 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D uses dungeon master sometimes, doesn't it? < 1323743318 290201 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... no I don't like that. :P < 1323743318 605754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For dice, just use 1d6+2 or whatever. < 1323743319 857121 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1323743330 20498 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: game or dungeon master works. I think gamemaster is typically preferred. < 1323743340 349232 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: D&D usually calls "dungeon master" but you could use different terms. I prefer "referee" but use whatever you prefer. < 1323743341 103416 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I honestly don't know much about D&D culture < 1323743353 791866 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't play that game. < 1323743364 869382 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes "storyteller"
< 1323743365 364256 :thatmentat!~IceChat77@c-76-27-211-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1323743404 55544 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Read the D&D recordings I wrote and learn about how I play the game, at least. < 1323743411 698607 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a single game being a story, and a set of stories with recurring characters and themes being a chronicle. < 1323743462 687052 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, that is a sensible view. I consider the game (story) consisting of several sessions, which have both session breaks and chapter breaks, which might or might not coincide. < 1323743483 674868 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some IRC server, if you use the command "GS ROLL 1d6" for 1d6 roll dice, and so on. You can optionally include a channel afterward to copy the results to the named channel < 1323743499 841920 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plans to incorporate a little bit more than a simple dice roller, since he already has that.
< 1323743514 394178 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on implementing dice rollers for each system, perhaps with the ability to track stats. < 1323743563 906563 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can say: !roll Dexterity+Acrobatics+2 diff 6 < 1323743564 291371 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 3d6 + 1d20 < 1323743564 531096 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d6 + 1d20 => 27 < 1323743565 94313 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1323743584 554908 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, lambdabot already has < 1323743601 663501 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work well with shadowrun and WoD systems < 1323743607 491687 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you roll a large number of dice against a target number < 1323743617 89461 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1000d6 < 1323743618 176605 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000d6 => 3527 < 1323743677 875675 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of a different system: referee rolls all the dice by hand; players don't, however some common text adventure abbreviations should be understood by the referee < 1323743696 537506 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well yes I was planning to have options to allow the referee to roll everything < 1323743712 154882 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!roll with < 1323743713 845434 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1323743730 195526 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the complexity is warranted though, for the average tabletop gamer. < 1323743731 539643 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, I mean by hand. Like, not on the IRC. < 1323743758 342359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 8d8 < 1323743758 588470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :8d8 => 28 < 1323743772 985663 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it slightly similar to a text adventure game. (Text adventure game are the closest kind of computer games to a role playing games, in my opinion) < 1323743830 741825 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh yes, I play that way as well. < 1323744151 156962 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a program that runs on the referee's computer, with a separate window and the IRC as well; it is connected to the IRC server so that someone can use PRIVMSG whatever :HELP and so on, and make file transfer of the data if wanted, in the computer data format, and then possibly to DVI to print as well < 1323744196 615744 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Commands other than HELP and STATUS would not be accepted if you are not currently in a game session, I guess) < 1323744241 993725 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everyone makes synchronized local copy of game data, with the main data on the referee's computer < 1323744259 107826 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :While private data does not have to go into the program at all < 1323744357 818459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a channel in my IRC server for RPG sessions, and I might be able to add server scripts for a few of things you do in there, if I want to do so. < 1323744461 352103 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was going to make the entire thing public, but with access restrictions. < 1323744480 456234 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course rolls can be done in private via privmsg < 1323744487 925932 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also entering stats < 1323744499 370436 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a storyteller for a certain chronicle would have full access to every characters information. < 1323744540 960098 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do all commands by private; results can be copied to the channel if the game is in session. And then have data files access < 1323744545 960089 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would also need to implement an authentication system to make sure that nicks are identified.
< 1323744555 728664 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't figured out how to do that with the bot framework I'm using in Perl. < 1323744561 749438 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That is, for IRC servers that have that. < 1323744563 176628 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might have to rewrite the low-level bits. < 1323744598 38156 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are some differences between servers too. < 1323744644 501949 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he was still coding for that WoD MUD
< 1323744650 628656 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to do so many awesome things with their dice roller. < 1323744693 741892 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like having a huge weapon table to automatically handle damage rolls on firearms and melee weapons < 1323744729 14928 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server scripting language for my IRC is called "Cthulhu.194" and this is an example file: http://sprunge.us/SNPD < 1323744731 256512 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd basically have to know even less about the system than you already did in order to play. < 1323744742 579994 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god what is this. lol < 1323744813 477913 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's called Cthulhu for a reason < 1323744831 292761 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The WEBIRC command was originally built in to the server program. I removed that feature and then added a script to implement it instead. A script can have multiple command names to access it; this is defined in the configuration file) < 1323744836 201051 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... can't tell if it's postfix or prefix. < 1323744838 454768 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to change. < 1323744867 993366 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it is because I implemented the SUMMON command that no other IRC has. And then someone in this channel mentioned SUMMON CTHULHU and they don't like that or whatever, so I called it that. < 1323744989 2175 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Actually it is all prefix, although a few things act like they are postfix. < 1323745215 632577 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is another script (currently active in my server; however you do not have permission to access it): http://sprunge.us/RAjB < 1323745220 890135 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The memory manager I wrote for class has O(n) access time :( < 1323745273 173347 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro < 1323745439 500698 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first I thought creating a weapons table for a dice roller would be a huge pain, BUT < 1323745467 248075 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I've got a little better at scraping stuff with perl, I can just steal something online and convert it into a desired format. < 1323745516 704130 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of manually writing "Colt Anaconda difficulty 6, damage 6, rate 2, clip 6, range 35, Colt Detective Special difficulty 6, damage 4, rate 4, ..." < 1323745524 132932 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then eventually killing myself < 1323745554 72716 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write the numbers separated by commas and a semicolon at the end of each record, is another way < 1323745558 374426 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I go through common models of revolvers, shotguns, semi-automatic pistols, machine guns, machine pistols, rifles, assault rifles, battle rifles, ... < 1323745680 467655 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's even weapon data on fun stuff like jackhammers, industrial drills, war hammers, tridents, chainsaws, and crossbows < 1323745695 31025 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because.. I'm totally going to bring a trident to a gun fight. that's my character's preference. < 1323745716 55316 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: O, OK. But then it is not a proper gun fight, isn't it? < 1323745721 584776 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess not. < 1323745746 761467 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if you're playing as vampires, the rules actually make melee weapons feasible, as bullets are nowhere near as effective against vampires. < 1323745835 211333 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, vampire+chainsaw could be a viable option against a squishy mortal + small pistol < 1323745888 717219 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attention self: It is NOT ok for the starting address of each partition to be the number of the partition < 1323745918 887352 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1323746026 587708 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why did you < 1323746057 585570 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the character data that I recorded for D&D games if you want to see some information about it in case it helps you to write a program to store these kind of data (mine is D&D 3.5 edition; but make the program acceptable for many systems including but not limited to this one) < 1323746059 315258 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madoka-Kaname, I didn't deliberately. It's a bug that I somehow didn't notice when testing yesterday < 1323746069 145180 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have other questions about the system you can ask that too < 1323746093 161537 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38! < 1323746113 391507 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: ? < 1323746118 916665 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm going to work on shadowrun and world of darkness first as these are the systems I primarily enjoy, though it's difficult to find anyone who has an interest in those things. < 1323746120 76190 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of "information"? < 1323746159 192557 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: basically each system will have mostly unique rules so I'm not going to generalize anything. Each dice roller will use its own special syntax. < 1323746180 80538 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each system will have different kinds of data in character tables, etc < 1323746190 775177 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: OK, do that first, then. But see what I have afterward, you might be able to make a more generalized system if necessary. I can also give a little bit of information about the Icosahedral RPG system since it uses a few special requirements for character data storage < 1323746193 434582 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had .Count() instead of .Sum() < 1323746213 81887 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey may i see your ad&d work zzo38? < 1323746217 484380 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well some of the library code will be generalized. < 1323746227 36613 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes, that is what I was about to suggest. < 1323746237 853599 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: to avoid tedium. The idea is that you could specify what a character sheet contains and the "create character" command would just refer to that in order to generate a blank sheet. < 1323746261 507038 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex < 1323746261 804536 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and since it's all Perl I just let dynamic typing do its thing. < 1323746273 410321 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1323746305 215179 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: It is a game story. If you want spells/feats/whatever I invented, I can show you those things too < 1323746337 966999 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That was my idea with the Icochash program I wrote; however, I abandoned that and might later rewrite it, but not in PHP next time! Same thing with Icoruma, I might rewrite it in a faster programming language than PHP next time. < 1323746351 179760 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why would you even consider PHP < 1323746363 718931 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea.. actally yes.. i'm planning to write a irc-bot as a supporting device for pen & paper games over the net < 1323746363 895680 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also why is performance important? < 1323746369 996471 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...lol < 1323746375 674989 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MUCH CODE DUPLICATION < 1323746406 831337 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is you still need a game master and a story teller < 1323746412 939349 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and real roleplaying < 1323746414 248813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: PHP is not very good but I have used it before. Next time I will use C or Haskell. And performance is good because when there are a large number of files it becomes slow < 1323746437 197423 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you just load everything into memory. < 1323746461 687955 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but zzo38 your link doesnt resolve in chrome < 1323746463 362617 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Even if loading everything into memory, it is slow because it still has to load the files and parse them. < 1323746489 24722 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is tex like text in (la)tex? < 1323746490 417237 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at startup sure. or is this a web thing? < 1323746493 884426 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Try adding "view-source:" to the front; that might work (I know it works in Mozilla; I don't know whether Chrome does or not) < 1323746508 696463 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, it is a standalone program, actually. < 1323746527 979196 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well then parsing only adds to startup overhead. < 1323746531 267322 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then everything is fine? < 1323746531 610814 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :k lets do it that way then.. one need them all these days..*dumidum < 1323746532 357750 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: LaTeX is a format for TeX; this file is Plain TeX. < 1323746537 945698 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1323746539 637915 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: what language do you want to use? < 1323746544 813747 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, elliott update < 1323746558 235509 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes but it must reload every time you modify the input files in order to recompile them, and that makes it very slow < 1323746571 382854 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :php or c# or sth in betwenn.. maybe all.. -> web services < 1323746573 254535 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1323746573 430980 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1323746576 565595 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I feel this intermission is a bit rushed, but nonetheless awesome to read. < 1323746593 750418 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: I thought it was an IRC bot and not a web-thing? < 1323746607 76011 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc just as endpoint < 1323746613 28226 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to players < 1323746628 90048 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: oh, okay. < 1323746634 70807 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a bad approach actually. < 1323746656 653973 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to MUDs though so I have absolutely no problems with a marginally complicated command interface. < 1323746660 999896 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a web interface would be convenient though. < 1323746677 991643 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im really not that far into how to implement things..and implementation will be trivial at all < 1323746688 551957 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should not be a web interface; it should be MUD. But possibly add a Java web interface as an alternative. < 1323746690 126 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+not (?) < 1323746699 82767 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some systems, such as FICS, do this) < 1323746714 238788 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its kind of operation research < 1323746725 426839 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323746727 924993 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands simplify things for the implementation. Normal people will be scared though because OH MY GOD I HAVE TO LEARN SYNTAX. < 1323746754 810214 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323746766 532086 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if players could extend the world its actors actions and stuff by writing some kind of easy readable xmlcode < 1323746768 655779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Then do what I specified; use MUD and then make a Java frontend as an alternative interface to use? < 1323746780 956040 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: It doesn't have to be XML, necessarily. < 1323746788 694800 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesnt < 1323746792 217106 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i mentioned < 1323746815 320141 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: are you familiar with MOO? < 1323746827 245885 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to make random access in his memory manager O(1)
< 1323746843 767784 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im into designing the game itself.. + try to invent something revolutionary new and motivational < 1323746844 391569 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Do you like the document I posted, now? Can you read it now? (You could just download it and open in a text editor, if necessary) < 1323746845 472479 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: isn't that kind of redundant? < 1323746853 364374 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :random access typically implies O(1) I thought. < 1323746854 401957 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes exactly < 1323746855 258172 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1323746861 783842 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's O(n) or anything like that it's no longer random access. < 1323746888 35956 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea Icosahedral RPG too, is the new game; however, it is not a computer game. < 1323746925 113277 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes MUDs were not quickly dying out
< 1323746935 654120 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are a good medium for multiplayer roleplaying games I feel. < 1323746957 892452 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here are two examples of Icoruma input files: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/icoruma/intro.irm http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/icosahedral/icoruma/spells.irm < 1323746961 517193 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely think they could use a modern interface, while still retaining the text-based medium. < 1323746964 579187 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a mud years ago which I believe still exists.. it had a huge map of middle earth and various towns and quests < 1323746969 412576 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but incorporating some mixed media. < 1323746981 826109 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Then use MUDs if you like that way. I think just use the same protocol as the old way < 1323746992 201941 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=1_Chat_Line&curid=4885&diff=26035&oldid=26034 < 1323747003 286462 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm kind of talking about a separate project < 1323747006 865694 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to incorporate some mixed media, I think. < 1323747007 795844 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways I almost got banned because I made a program that gave me a graphical map and could automatically navigate between towns < 1323747009 856274 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my IRC bot is much simpler than a MUD < 1323747027 106709 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh already bene noted < 1323747029 273121 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1323747037 897800 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: those are fairly common in MUD clients. You don't even need to make one. < 1323747047 658876 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: this was a long time ago < 1323747053 404494 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: OK. Still, I think a MUD should be made the same way as the old way, possibly support alternative front-ends if they would help but allow any MUD client to continue working < 1323747059 899798 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: also it's generally impossible to detect if you put a reasonable delay between moves. < 1323747066 299473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a simple dumb MUD client should be acceptable. < 1323747079 352934 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's what I did lol < 1323747089 739425 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes zzo38 at least i can grab it..will examine things later..im far behind tired < 1323747092 138333 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I was thinking from the perspective of refreshing the community with new people. < 1323747093 839779 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to sleep < 1323747117 722750 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, add on new signals that are turned on when the client indicates support < 1323747120 632121 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :far beyond < 1323747124 639397 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: though even with interface improvements most people are so attached to their big budget graphical games that they probably wouldn't adjust well to the text-based format. < 1323747130 133142 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it added features too, where I could have virtual parties that existed.. the game didn't handle them, but we could track each other on the map via special private messages < 1323747136 238647 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes that's generally how it would work. < 1323747144 727201 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: was a lot of fun < 1323747180 73783 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: plenty of existing custom MUD clients are implemented over telnet and allow general clients. < 1323747184 187459 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a dumb client supporting no signals other than text receive and command send, should still be acceptable. But also make the new clients with many new options and so on < 1323747222 398289 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one occasionaly problem is that many MUD clients are not actually legitimate telnet clients < 1323747234 535080 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented this as a modem program actually... had to dial up to my unix shell account in order to telnet < 1323747255 585021 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ms-dos of course, lol < 1323747257 964185 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not a huge problem. You just send them something telnety and if they don't respond with something telnety then you just treat them like a basic socket and dump text (maybe with ANSI codes if the option is turned on since most clients support those) < 1323747288 653287 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was actually layers of hacks.. oh well.. it worked and it was fun < 1323747289 954756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Well, yes, if it is a telnet then you should handle backspacing and those things at the server too. < 1323747295 531153 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1323747297 165383 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are actually some "mud protocols" that exist that allow mixed media and the like, but they're generally bad and not well supported. < 1323747304 739525 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it is a dumb linemode client, then use that. < 1323747341 894457 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I remember back in the day that some bbses supported extra codes where if you had the right client you'd get a graphical gui < 1323747351 415787 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was lame overall tho < 1323747376 964407 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just made it slower and didn't really add much since it was just showing the same info < 1323747412 676989 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's see how xfce compares against lxde.. bbl < 1323747442 410812 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323747927 310172 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323748363 6492 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two lists of words < 1323748396 225350 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A and B, split by newlines. what's the fastest way in bash to display the words in A that aren't in B? < 1323748647 946301 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memory manager is demented! Yay! < 1323748657 13289 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably due to the hastily conceived "random access" idea < 1323748663 892891 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION found the solution to his problem as well: use perl instead of bash
< 1323748671 954415 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, poor implementation thereof < 1323748673 130282 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :was gonna say that :p < 1323748691 766362 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sometimes I wonder why I even try to use bash. < 1323748704 42457 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the misguided notion that I'm going to be faster with it if I get the hang of it. < 1323748707 686438 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'M NEVER GOING TO UNDERSTAND BASH < 1323748733 644293 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: probably bad elliott influence ;P < 1323748749 706943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1323748750 119073 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster to write? or faster computed? < 1323748753 975004 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write. < 1323748769 832027 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm all about the BREAKNECK SPEED of my simple automated tasks. < 1323748795 224982 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want them to be UNNOTICEABLE FRACTIONS OF SECONDS FASTER < 1323748809 219721 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Icoruma has a few features I would like to see in other programming languages, such as wildcard includes. I don't know of other programming languages that have that. < 1323748823 290895 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :show < 1323748831 211994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wat < 1323748913 681445 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see: certain HackEgo commands i rewrote < 1323748962 486855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1323749038 243799 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea of what exactly a "mana" is in Icosahedral RPG could also be used in other games too if you want to. < 1323749219 659774 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Among other things, it is a commutative monoid, with five primes.) < 1323749669 782003 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, in the XOR monoid, True is prime. Is it? < 1323749919 938463 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... I think, my professor's default fixed partition memory manager allocates an unneeded partition < 1323750807 340945 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti, update < 1323750826 975417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1323750953 277782 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323751660 263762 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323753158 790529 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e5c7.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1323753186 146379 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1323753265 437809 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-17.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323753301 843509 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-225-197.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1323754390 560589 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the property of applicatives for which this applies: () <$ x = pure () for any x of this applicative type < 1323754464 425136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sounds like the equivalent of commutative monads < 1323754480 626276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly equivalent to (f <$> a <*> b) = (flip f <$> b <*> a), I think < 1323754622 468676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, is that what commutative monads means? Your condition seems to me like commutative applicative? < 1323754666 158955 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323754685 830624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, yes :P < 1323754695 571216 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :commutative monad is stronger i think < 1323754702 934693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a >>= \x -> b >>= \y -> f x y = b >>= \y -> a >>= \x -> f x y < 1323754703 887392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1323754711 182599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323754715 95102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { a <- mb; b <- mb; f a b } < 1323754715 581071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := < 1323754719 283486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { b <- mb; a <- ma; f a b } < 1323754723 274877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easier to read :P < 1323754868 184741 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that similar but after join? < 1323754983 796152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323755637 875127 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`style < 1323755640 316145 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: style: not found < 1323755641 786106 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1323755641 962675 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora* alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1323755644 386813 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1323755644 563282 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1323755645 201650 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |   |   |    `\o/´    |   |   |    `\o/´    |   |   | < 1323755645 378023 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |\ /|  /|      |      |\ /`\ /|      |     /<   >\ /'\ < 1323755645 554606 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :             (_|¯´¯|_)                /´\ < 1323755645 554826 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                    (_| |_) < 1323759051 578478 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1323759549 122895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can a single string draw the edge of a mobius strip? < 1323759559 506234 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems kind of wild to imagine < 1323759584 244283 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it just has to float in space a bit < 1323759642 857146 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you intend to do mb twice in your first part of the equation? < 1323759656 765537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323759671 118907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x <- mx was the intent < 1323759671 902853 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all x < 1323759693 769441 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go food < 1323759736 776607 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1323759942 296671 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323759942 658997 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1323759942 835652 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323759996 379339 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323760117 449716 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard < 1323760133 894487 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially you, over-zealous log-reader < 1323760140 548252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323760191 118583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched the tintin movie today < 1323760678 542989 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a proper monad? newtype ReadthisT f x = ReadthisT { runReadthisT :: f () -> f x }; lift = ReadthisT . const; fmap f = ReadthisT . (fmap f .) . runReadthisT; join (ReadthisT x) = ReadthisT (\y -> x y >>= ($ (() <$ (y >> x y))) . runReadthisT); < 1323761518 778986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323761921 137960 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let collatz = takeWhile (/=1) . iterate c; c n = if even n then n `div` 2 else 3*n+1 in collatz 150 < 1323761922 716865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [150,75,226,113,340,170,85,256,128,64,32,16,8,4,2] < 1323762011 418870 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (succ . head . tail) . iterate (drop 2) . map length . group . fix $ show < 1323762016 53630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1323762022 424608 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 . map (succ . head . tail) . iterate (drop 2) . map length . group . fix $ show < 1323762025 157661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,8,16,32] < 1323762032 587613 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1323762037 17245 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1323762055 34239 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think it's the best way to compute the powers of 2 < 1323762070 568969 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no obviously my powerset construction is the best. :P < 1323762078 374831 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lengths of powersets. < 1323762094 482940 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though really that's probably way better because there's a fix and I have no clue what it's doing as a result. < 1323762102 169371 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because fix still kind of baffles me sometimes. < 1323762109 497067 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm fixing show < 1323762113 276084 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323762127 588906 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so infinite string of... something. < 1323762131 211112 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix show < 1323762132 163515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... < 1323762135 732821 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1323762136 99227 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323762137 356539 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quotes < 1323762336 73750 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let twood = length . filterM (const [True, False]) . flip replicate undefined in map twood [1..10] < 1323762337 963678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024] < 1323762399 381057 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: you can't deny its elegance. < 1323762411 596108 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1323762420 156532 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but look how much faster yours is than mine < 1323762429 113012 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an added benefit! < 1323762433 167232 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even get up to 10 < 1323762434 61863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :avoid speed at all costs < 1323762438 75104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell motto < 1323762439 78266 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :before lambdabot craps out on me < 1323762442 159065 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly < 1323762453 428732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: well what can we expect from an agda programmer like you < 1323762456 968435 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHBURGNRJKGNR < 1323762466 599686 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a geometric series? you can't expect it to be fast < 1323762471 214175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once this agda guy tried to burn me < 1323762472 747007 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1323762478 965189 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: what's the runtime on mine... O(2^n)??? < 1323762482 532697 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION burns elliott
< 1323762482 754863 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's forgetting something < 1323762484 461506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his irc client froze up calculating the natural number representing his irc line < 1323762494 137661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he tried to type more than 10 characters < 1323762494 313770 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: nah, that should be it < 1323762495 11876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is < 1323762495 555574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323762496 714072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agda is slow < 1323762505 795574 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? < 1323762506 799322 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: see look the runtime is the same as the function. how elegant. < 1323762530 217571 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 10 . map (succ . head . tail) . iterate (drop 2) . map length . group . fix $ show < 1323762531 848950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024] < 1323762535 306765 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I can get to 10 < 1323762540 559247 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're probably the same time complexity actually < 1323762586 597061 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let f = length . flip replicate undefined in map f [1..] < 1323762588 371670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28... < 1323762599 36265 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look! a linear function that runs in linear time < 1323762600 734592 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YESSSSSSS < 1323762641 921074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like functions that describe their own complexity < 1323762642 686941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like fib < 1323762658 878387 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that may be a characteristic of any function that uses the list representation of natural numbers? < 1323762665 525591 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary < 1323762735 207294 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no nevermind what am I saying. < 1323762780 965244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1323762782 675385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323762783 588371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window < 1323762894 135072 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1323762900 205185 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1323762911 993105 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing where numbers came out of fix show < 1323762912 169349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323762919 918183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix show < 1323762920 894908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\... < 1323762921 750767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers < 1323762955 703263 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 3 7 15 < 1323763056 141916 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see the > fix show, just copumpkin's take 10 . map etc thing < 1323763176 745913 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I still reading Station V3 < 1323763203 82263 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have a history of reading things that are terrible < 1323763206 180825 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats that is it good hi sgeo < 1323763210 75498 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that cliparty universe < 1323763218 40271 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love clip art < 1323763219 904296 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, even I think it's stale. < 1323763227 665660 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the cliparty universe. Station V3) < 1323763248 878644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/comics/20111213sv3.gif < 1323763249 893743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1323763280 274352 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1323763284 418755 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont < 1323763285 159063 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it < 1323763300 763488 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely see how it might be gotten < 1323763301 141009 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1323763302 456320 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1323763307 575366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/comics/20111212sv3.gif < 1323763309 310437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1323763318 552768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/comics/20111211sv3.gif < 1323763319 622794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1323763331 664101 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...................... < 1323763343 84005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :these might be the least funny gifs i have viewed with my eyes in like < 1323763344 127190 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :years < 1323763344 303128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1323763348 631164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1323763352 922562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a picture of wooden flooring < 1323763358 505525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it elicits absolutely no reaction < 1323763359 378699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1323763375 782164 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some funny ones < 1323763376 967071 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually laughed because of how terribly impossibly bad it was.
< 1323763381 568052 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all in the past < 1323763387 650119 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i laughed, possibly for the same reason as kallisti < 1323763421 707170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: whats the worst webcomic < 1323763422 616061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your < 1323763423 291110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :opinion < 1323763432 880895 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man there are so many bad webcomics i dont even know about < 1323763444 481928 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :excitement < 1323763455 615572 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it allowed to be in the Station V3 family? < 1323763461 868234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a family < 1323763467 748250 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is a family. < 1323763471 458388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1323763503 157957 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a happy family < 1323763509 708864 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they frends < 1323763521 568466 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://silenceinthedarknessonq16.comicostrich.com/ < 1323763534 662020 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good comic < 1323763550 672196 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :silence in the darkness on q16 < 1323763557 815624 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start at the beginning, it's actually not that bad < 1323763558 120244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://silenceinthedarknessonq16.comicostrich.com/comic.php?cdate=20111211 < 1323763559 333488 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1323763560 28614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is < 1323763563 780712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they all like this < 1323763571 812214 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is amazing < 1323763576 157794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i went to the beginning < 1323763578 977578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still bad < 1323763582 15214 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please advise < 1323763598 335419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how old is < 1323763599 613596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author of this < 1323763603 817284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've spent uh < 1323763607 221592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 years < 1323763607 752898 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://z7.comicostrich.com/ < 1323763608 294408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of their life < 1323763609 823413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing these things < 1323763617 791828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they must be like < 1323763625 631737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know < 1323763632 355443 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linton (on V3) is humorous < 1323763651 371266 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry sgeo i do not trust your opinions < 1323763668 653128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you read v3 < 1323763674 891139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forum.comicostrich.com/viewtopic.php?t=418&sid=ceaf354a4066a147d94ca3c93d76ce27 < 1323763680 658457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know what htis is but why does it have 21 pages < 1323763694 479400 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20030616.html < 1323763703 737719 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads
< 1323763703 951479 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what would happen if randall munroe and andrew hussie met < 1323763705 775575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's dinosaur comic < 1323763706 896274 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is therapy < 1323763710 849613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reading station v3 < 1323763711 952823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are all < 1323763713 345553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to join me < 1323763719 662156 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dinosaur comic is bad too < 1323763722 852794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rumormongers are the blue things < 1323763723 964605 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually < 1323763727 518879 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti.................... < 1323763729 434799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: look at kallisti's wrong opinions < 1323763732 230120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at him just < 1323763733 860940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :casually having them < 1323763758 896580 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think dinosaur comics is too fast-paced. The scenery changes too rapidly. < 1323763774 900021 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell what's going on. < 1323763775 76037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your jokes cannot < 1323763776 894754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :make you a good person < 1323763804 133276 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond redemption < 1323763810 176737 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kallisti way of life < 1323763825 881162 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20050319.html < 1323763830 600932 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one's almost good < 1323763839 687220 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I'm laughing at these. I'm finding them funny < 1323763843 323812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1323763843 876541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1323763845 33571 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sgeo ni < 1323763845 451603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not < 1323763846 694536 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost good < 1323763848 87032 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean < 1323763848 303164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not even < 1323763859 599473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1323763860 364689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not < 1323763861 445131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :healthy < 1323763863 172062 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even remotely anywhere near something resembling good < 1323763863 349795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to laugh at this stuff < 1323763869 460478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accept < 1323763870 483680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tastes < 1323763871 825310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are subjective < 1323763875 240203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think you are permanently < 1323763877 710005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :damaging < 1323763879 401246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your soul < 1323763895 413796 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gave me a soul?!? < 1323763896 347187 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1323763900 403576 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1323763904 733504 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n;o < 1323763913 366090 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: though in its defense dinosaur comics makes excellent use of foreshadowing < 1323763927 428620 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that moment when you realize the previous panel hinted at the events of the next < 1323763929 144555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if T-Rex canonically crushes a new house every single day. < 1323763934 473405 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat rewarding. < 1323763971 436068 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the many joys of dinosaur comics < 1323763972 851771 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the many joys of life < 1323763984 952147 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20050328.html < 1323764022 505350 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1323764027 807917 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these comics remind me of you, sgeo < 1323764035 25051 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1323764046 79329 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's either that or it continually goes back in time < 1323764048 504508 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have your personality < 1323764050 427689 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it's a glimpse of different universes. < 1323764050 634282 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps < 1323764052 224067 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have theirs < 1323764069 944685 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered you and stationv3 may be soulmates < 1323764084 989634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there's chronology < 1323764094 604940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: yeah these comics are very Sgeo < 1323764105 685004 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so then... he has to crush a house every time. < 1323764111 315782 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONSISTENCY < 1323764121 434018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well there's no conclusive PROOF he crushes the house < 1323764128 337385 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1323764138 163600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1 < 1323764143 566486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we see that he doesn't stomp on the girl at least in comic 1 < 1323764143 898947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1323764147 768423 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: WHY DON'T YOU SAY THAT TO PAST ELLIOT INSTEAD ASSHOLE < 1323764153 374883 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20050415.html < 1323764158 74432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*TT < 1323764192 683974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: thats < 1323764193 515439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not funny < 1323764200 462715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am TRYING to laugh < 1323764248 236861 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there even a joke with these? < 1323764250 135562 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell. < 1323764260 639401 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that one was supposed to have a joke, at least < 1323764267 347295 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you explain it to me? < 1323764271 377858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: was there a station v2 < 1323764272 750967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the station < 1323764273 711292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't safe < 1323764274 895577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the joke < 1323764281 237277 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what? < 1323764284 696490 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323764294 394179 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20030506.html < 1323764296 926427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 < 1323764297 862127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :comic 1 < 1323764317 711344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/links.html < 1323764320 661765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :list of comics to avoid reading < 1323764324 875816 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ebb.comicostrich.com/ < 1323764325 919857 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even comic 1 < 1323764329 911997 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that not like judging Homestuck by 1901? < 1323764330 849052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YES ANOTHER SPINOFF FUCK YES GOD YES! < 1323764332 861900 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is < 1323764351 240599 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude you're going to have to explain all of the jokes to all of these. < 1323764367 579590 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's plot. < 1323764368 596616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, if homestuck was a terrible gag-a-day strip with a dozen spinoffs and also no because we've also looked at like fifty other ones by now and they are all equally bad < 1323764368 892352 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION iIT IS YOUR DUTY
< 1323764370 797145 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's plotlines < 1323764382 291553 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Sgeo's using dots at the end of sentences i think we're disliking station v3 a little too intensely < 1323764389 864580 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gripping station v3 plotlines < 1323764400 962276 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with enchanting station v3 characters < 1323764401 497101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 plotline one: station... v4??? < 1323764405 88758 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two characters who were previously mute become able to talk < 1323764414 501640 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :enchanting < 1323764416 894962 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all of reality changed. < 1323764417 332327 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gripping < 1323764419 585670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ehcanthed < 1323764423 119632 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you gripped < 1323764426 474407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im < 1323764428 820243 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm GRIPPED < 1323764431 186107 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so gripped i dont think ill ever be able to be ungripped < 1323764433 260070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :permanent grippeling < 1323764434 20340 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES IT GRIPED ME < 1323764439 931464 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gripe < 1323764441 673333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are all < 1323764444 97948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gripped together < 1323764451 349648 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: gripe with me < 1323764451 595532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forum.comicostrich.com/viewtopic.php?t=11&sid=ceaf354a4066a147d94ca3c93d76ce27 < 1323764455 923530 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 frendship < 1323764475 601169 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: not the only ship in station v3 < 1323764479 831303 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-punchline- < 1323764489 451426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are these forums active!!! < 1323764494 699201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1323764500 372405 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's Prentice? < 1323764507 549979 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Prentis < 1323764520 485785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1323764523 412212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expecting me to know the answer to this < 1323764578 335222 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott resident station v3 expert < 1323764585 789640 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mere minutes he has surpassed even sgeo < 1323764591 206881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the robot guy < 1323764592 997617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is called floyed < 1323764597 456679 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floyd < 1323764601 421028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :floyde < 1323764605 860349 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are two goerges??? < 1323764615 506637 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linton is the idiot security officer < 1323764620 204384 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And same species as the pirates < 1323764621 676148 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323764623 3702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there nonidiots < 1323764623 459257 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1323764629 340818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goerg < 1323764661 416128 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"station v3" -- georg < 1323764665 428616 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323764668 619080 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blue things on the planet are called rumormongers, and for some reason XChat thinks that rumormongers is spelled correctly. < 1323764677 161922 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323764679 228016 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1323764681 653122 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not recall adding rumormongers to the dictionary < 1323764696 703314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you realise < 1323764700 352802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rumormonger < 1323764701 839308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a word < 1323764705 848786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside of this incredibly shitty comic < 1323764715 265722 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I do (seconds before you told me) < 1323764732 451395 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowledge is power < 1323764741 112609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-keanu reves < 1323764748 529284 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :France is a meme. < 1323764755 674018 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hysterical < 1323764913 348403 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for good Linton comics
< 1323764918 835974 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1323764966 890481 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stationv3.com/d/20071009.html < 1323764987 532980 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1323764990 403534 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because < 1323764991 54578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he < 1323764993 296765 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1323765016 260842 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo i think you got the wrong comic < 1323765017 678942 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't good < 1323765018 954949 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is crap < 1323765027 993743 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People in this channel really enjoy things that they don't enjoy, don't they. < 1323765036 195167 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323765039 8647 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I do < 1323765048 260794 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is laughing insanely right now
< 1323765098 525014 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, this (not what I linked) was a good arc < 1323765265 299487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323765266 787195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't < 1323765291 198406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: i cant handle any more station v3 < 1323765295 80110 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1323765352 12411 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah thats a pretty awful comic strip < 1323765364 866205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that particular one... 2007 10 09 < 1323765370 401754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont mean they're all necessarily bad < 1323765393 629240 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, they are < 1323765439 500526 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20071011.html < 1323765506 53764 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats really devastatingly bad.. < 1323765515 575517 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3 quality < 1323765519 957914 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure if it's just the mood i'm in < 1323765579 695951 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20080901.html < 1323765612 515536 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1323765634 922651 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they make sense if you read a whole bunch of them.. like very context-dependant < 1323765658 700169 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do, I think < 1323765687 165819 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plot gets repetitive though. How many times can you destroy the universe and have it be restored from backup? < 1323765702 451593 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(canned laughter) < 1323765743 848439 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20080908.html < 1323765879 445025 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO. MORE. < 1323765882 718587 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST NOT CLICK < 1323765887 536063 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's great < 1323765896 386583 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323765904 659653 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1323765922 100248 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a way about it < 1323765939 148629 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many more of us will it kill < 1323765957 221753 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard a rumor that it won't kill any more of us. < 1323765974 686711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered you may already be dead < 1323765989 25126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not until you asked. < 1323766048 992105 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, actually, yes... i have been led into some superstitious beliefs on that subject < 1323766250 393376 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stationv3.com/d/20050809.html < 1323766281 368698 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1323766325 519764 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stationv3.com/d/20040709.html < 1323766344 504039 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you finding these < 1323766373 676431 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OhNoRobot < 1323766430 963607 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stationv3.com/d/20040402.html < 1323766480 268060 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you finding these < 1323766485 889970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323766499 347926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: OK, I have a really stupid build system idea, you get to tell me why it doesn't work. < 1323766505 901607 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323766533 939019 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION failed to see elliott's quit message until now
< 1323766544 668201 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what you missed: More Station V3 < 1323766551 414542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1323766560 216845 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was great stuff < 1323766582 379569 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm choosing badly, and just selecting random ones will have higher probability of good comics < 1323766614 293455 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t randomR < 1323766616 557453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a g. (Random a, RandomGen g) => (a, a) -> g -> (a, g) < 1323766617 420282 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1323766619 533642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no possible way < 1323766621 997119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this comic could be salvaged < 1323766647 552242 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homestuck might suck if someone tried to present random panels at you < 1323766672 81868 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who am I kidding. The reason I brought up Station V3 in the first place is that I had no idea why I kept it in my rss reader < 1323766673 251962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this badly Sgeo < 1323766675 103499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this badly < 1323766700 472800 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be good < 1323766703 156359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like homestuck's first 100 panels over and over again would be about six billion times better than a single station v3 strip < 1323766708 772999 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to clense your mind from station v3http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5937032/1/Grab_a_boob_day < 1323766710 285402 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will < 1323766712 434542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :take back my opinions Sgeo < 1323766716 401068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can link me one (1) good strip < 1323766739 30667 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, do the Linton strips I linked count as good? < 1323766769 949065 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323766776 902151 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i have decided i like them. < 1323766787 351541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323766790 963102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1323766791 860244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1323766974 479834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why itidus21 ;_; < 1323767015 757311 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :station v3, the worst existential crisis yet < 1323767016 415918 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i could like any graphic which is non-static combined with any grammatical piece of text < 1323767053 7020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1323767054 198547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're static < 1323767057 922194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre not animated.... < 1323767061 727854 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean uhh < 1323767085 265258 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any graphic which is a non-random signal < 1323767086 337727 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell with a comic as alive, endearing, enthralling, graipping, enchanting, as station v3 < 1323767097 928055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so garipping < 1323767112 994916 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I want to set a breakpoint in gdb for an address that doesn't exist until some point in runtime. < 1323767114 890202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant as in a tv-static < 1323767122 45373 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How am I do that. < 1323767135 602803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:41:42: (canned laughter) < 1323767137 834159 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know what static means in relation to a tv channel with an unrecognized signal < 1323767139 274764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: god i wish i could can laughter < 1323767139 451052 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Aren't you a gdb expert? < 1323767154 659998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: My gdb knowledge is set args ... \n start \n cont \n bt \n quit < 1323767171 621071 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you know gdb --args ./foo bar baz? < 1323767180 857756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because Deewiant told me, but then I forgot it again./ < 1323767201 67704 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trying to debug hs-plugins code.
< 1323767224 201635 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least gdb disables ASLR. < 1323767246 775261 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20060204.html < 1323767253 158915 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the address is deterministic (or seems to be), but I can't set a breakpoint at it straight away, because the code is not loaded yet. < 1323767277 395076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/d/20040710.html < 1323767278 351665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1323767289 42990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is this you trying to link a good one < 1323767329 383225 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the comic's I've linked are attempts to find a good one < 1323767332 313651 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :comics < 1323767333 950508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1323767334 796628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1323767336 299829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1323767337 356283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good work < 1323767363 606072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two thumbs up < 1323767371 873748 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I suck at finding < 1323767374 806711 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd give you more, but two is all I have. < 1323767456 49618 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of thumbs and comics, I made a comic a real long time ago < 1323767485 513801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it better than station v3 < 1323767490 240067 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so, yes < 1323767490 439390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could use a better comic than station v3 right now < 1323767519 806303 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/diner.png < 1323767536 478355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than station v3 < 1323767538 295178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the peppers < 1323767538 777711 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Station Z7? < 1323767547 49657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :( < 1323767602 182273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: are they peppers in panel 1 and 2 and you just can't see them < 1323767608 385895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did he become ppeppeperp < 1323767610 292376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that smily < 1323767611 291369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unrelated < 1323767612 184656 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is pepper < 1323767613 228984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to other characters < 1323767614 253264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1323767618 540441 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the Station V3 encyclopedia
< 1323767629 770377 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a < 1323767630 626429 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that < 1323767631 123868 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1323767631 972012 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1323767643 100688 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page < 1323767646 105566 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much of a thing < 1323767654 759324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not spammed < 1323767656 881874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is our wiki spammed < 1323767658 766169 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of this < 1323767667 110462 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Allpages < 1323767667 968752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are there edits this month < 1323767732 915742 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, SBAHJ apparently updated < 1323767748 387864 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1323767768 917587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than station v3 < 1323767796 920760 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"phhpppbbbbbthb" - better than station v3 < 1323767809 371646 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :":'(" - station v3 < 1323767840 414541 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not sorry" - better than station v3 < 1323767876 803013 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo are nay of these station v3 wiki pages good < 1323767881 941625 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don < 1323767890 128477 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many choices I don't know which to pick < 1323767891 862302 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I didn't even know there was a wiki until now < 1323767914 838996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/wiki/index.php?title=Station_V3_%28comic_strip%29 < 1323767932 549639 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stationv3.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tom_Truszkowski < 1323767938 823722 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he's a programmer < 1323767940 838076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Explains Things < 1323767964 974958 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought all webcomic authors could program. < 1323767979 677897 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a requirement. < 1323767993 308426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Station Q16 is the main station in the comic strip Silence in the Darkness on Q16 The station has had a power failure sometime before the first strip and is still in the dark. This may be because the station only exists within a rumormongers mind. < 1323767994 334517 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he has disabilitys, is it bad to make fun of stations v3..... < 1323768012 202442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his disability: writing station v3 < 1323768019 126092 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1323768113 146296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy what does the reverse text say < 1323768114 322581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your comic < 1323768115 672006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im too lazy < 1323768131 496387 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doug's "dougalicious" diner < 1323768132 203454 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doug's dougilicious < 1323768134 283661 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's dougalicious" < 1323768168 874138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dougalicious in my heart < 1323768187 102115 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im worse at writing dialogue than tom t. < 1323768207 630973 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1323768218 827511 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :snickers < 1323768371 360083 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( "hello snail" "hello tree" "how are you doing today?" "oh just fine. what about you, how are you doing?" "i am also fine" "i frankly harbor apathetic feelings towards your current state of well being" "is that so?" "it is so" "well ok then" "good" ) < 1323768387 523430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than station v3 < 1323768404 690155 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :harbor -- tree -- arbor is an accidental pun < 1323768626 903217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :im inspired < 1323769139 497956 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Station V3 + SBaHJ? < 1323769153 935158 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323769192 288564 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323769368 174924 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1323769371 472927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323769374 773624 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323769385 545512 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Station Zzz... < 1323769391 327703 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323769509 831606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :station bad < 1323769850 624887 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1323770924 520419 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323771480 792188 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323773478 489040 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323773740 869416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323775119 571862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5 is sufficient for avoiding random collisions on non-malicious input, right? < 1323775154 504179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, and relatedly, are VHDL identifiers allowed to be long enough to fit an entire md5 hash inside them? < 1323775309 645972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but why not go for SHA-1? < 1323775321 882560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis only 32 more bits < 1323775333 342641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5's in the OCaml standard libraries, SHA1 isn't < 1323775351 944137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1323775354 381559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a better standard library < 1323775382 662255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: googling doesn't show up any obvious limits on identifier name < 1323775385 17069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1323775403 587302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1323775406 348178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can pack it into base 62, at least < 1323775430 174141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll be 28 at most (27 + 1 byte prefix to avoid digit as first character) < 1323775453 794472 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf, you're not allowed two underlines in a row in a vhdl identifier < 1323775454 327747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but I don't really want to if there's no reason < 1323775458 381434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can't end with underlines < 1323775466 887740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or start, for that matter) < 1323775468 17893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? that is an important limitation for my project < 1323775468 986193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1323775471 252783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/underline/underscore/g < 1323775473 472932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to escape them, in that case < 1323775481 965572 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is? wtf are you doing < 1323775486 409145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "But VHDL also supports extended identifiers, enclosed by backslashes, which can contain any graphic ISO Latin-1 character (including backslashes if doubled)." < 1323775507 650799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Latin-1/? < 1323775512 943523 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, umm, I don't get it < 1323775517 666645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "any byte" < 1323775526 463521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, I got it for you :) < 1323775529 364041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1323775536 372201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, 32 of the possible values of a byte aren't graphic in Latin-1 < 1323775539 114810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (identc == '\\') append(identifier, getchar()) < 1323775541 701854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, hmm < 1323775543 442220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extended_indentifier ::= \graphic_character { graphic_character } \ < 1323775549 304410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess VHDL is just defined in terms of Latin-1 because old < 1323775562 212634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they presumably think control characters in identifiers is ridiculous < 1323775578 71604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is ridiculous < 1323775588 995351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, so is much of VHDL, I guess < 1323775614 781281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what I'm trying to do, is to translate variable names from a source program into variable names in the resulting VHDL, whilst mangling them as little as possible < 1323775621 3803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's easy to see which corresponds to which < 1323775646 832319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the source language doesn't have any arbitrary rules about double underscores < 1323775658 797996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you considered implementing your module layer in not vhdl... < 1323775675 437289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :define some intermediate language, and have the linker translate it to vhdl < 1323775680 692703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all at once < 1323775683 979212 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 65 of possible values of byte aren't graphic in Latin-1; 0..31 and 127..159. < 1323775696 55079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh right, I forgot 127 < 1323775704 520469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, screwed up multiplying 32 by 2 < 1323775706 691291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, this is for name mangling from a source language < 1323775710 10930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was for adding module prefixes < 1323775711 37191 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1323775721 595962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, name mangling from a source language < 1323775742 956768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the module prefixes are where the md5 stuff comes in < 1323775758 209956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL has namespacing, but I need to make sure that the namespaces don't have the same names as each other, or it'd just be a huge mess < 1323775760 691286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suggest just mangling everything other than [a-zA-Z0-9] into _xNN_ < 1323775762 638778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where NN is the byte value < 1323775765 944785 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming there's no Unicode involved < 1323775775 713245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think OCaml is dark-ages enough for it presumably not to be < 1323775798 310163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the source language isn't OCaml < 1323775804 959005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't say it was. < 1323775818 789433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment, it uses the same identifier rules as pre-Unicode-era C < 1323775829 708332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the length restrictions < 1323775830 152559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm saying that I'm very sceptical OCaml does Unicode in anything vaguely approximating out of the box. < 1323775836 514247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1323775977 119134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, is it wrong to want to write the project in OCaml+Perl? < 1323775995 561489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite a nice mix of languages, as their strengths complement each other nicely < 1323776059 486792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Complaining about your language lock-in will only cause me to mock OCaml more :) < 1323776068 968688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I have a language lockin < 1323776082 698805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rewrite the whole thing in Anarchy if it wasn't vaporware < 1323776084 653517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If your alternative is OCaml+Perl, you have no alternative. < 1323776164 887931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you dislike about OCaml, by the way? < 1323776173 565963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to mentally work out what its bad points are < 1323776182 318935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it definitely has some, but I have trouble putting a finger on them < 1323776210 275006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: For one, it's essentially stuck in 2002 < 1323776221 928159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that may well be valid < 1323776236 420381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right: it doesn't really have typeclasses < 1323776237 628096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a reputation for speed, but that's mostly in single-threaded tight loops, it doesn't really have a concurrency story at all, which is ridiculous < 1323776261 19180 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its standard library is weirdly inconsistent and incomplete (the fact that a library exists just to add all the things you forgot to the standard library is telling...). < 1323776264 494032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, you can't add "methods" to other classes < 1323776270 466649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, which one's that? < 1323776272 328130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, lack of typeclasses or something similarly useful is painful. < 1323776277 976922 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Batteries (Included) < 1323776293 605869 :kallisti!~eris@h53.38.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323776294 721774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think that Pervasives seems a little too large < 1323776299 808391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I don't get why it has I/O in < 1323776324 699819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't like the syntax much (Standard ML's is nicer), and the fact that it has multiple sort-of-object-systems is just ridiculous design. < 1323776348 636697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I just saw exception Exit looking at the Pervasives docs < 1323776353 487840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type system could also do with doing a bit less weak. < 1323776354 965340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an exception provided for user use, and not used by the library < 1323776364 629093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more subjectively: I'd rather it be pure and lazy, but, uh, the language I want OCaml to be already exists. < 1323776370 157491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, the user can (and frequently does) trivially define exception types < 1323776375 398838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh < 1323776382 546619 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sounds like a relic from before you could do that to me :P < 1323776387 62480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1323776394 944898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, Exit can't carry a payload < 1323776397 952227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh! Another thing I don't like about OCaml: THEY IMPLEMENTED PRINTF IN THE COMPILER < 1323776401 548043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make it reasonably useless for that purpose < 1323776403 282476 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINTF LITERALLY HAS SPECIAL COMPILER SUPPORT < 1323776405 378552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN THE TYPE SYSTEM < 1323776418 606927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? that's ridiculous < 1323776466 899946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1323776483 661931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't type printf in OCaml even with the dynamically-typed way Haskell does it, since that relies on overloading < 1323776499 725768 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: check out the type of printf, basically the "string literal" format you give to it? < 1323776501 918641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a string literal at all < 1323776507 346973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a type-carrying format value < 1323776515 549751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(printf ) is just special-cased < 1323776523 372951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think you can pass a variable format at all, that's the only way you can call it < 1323776531 16560 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy and heretical way to do printf: make it take all its arguments as strings < 1323776550 550321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that doesn't help, it's variadic < 1323776554 246399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need it to take a list of strings < 1323776558 985168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I meant < 1323776559 170558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point it becomes a really weird syntax for concat < 1323776560 274450 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323776580 420652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I meant it'd parse the strings back into the original arguments < 1323776603 447102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1323776609 820217 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd do printf "%2.3g" ["0.0000142"] < 1323776623 877720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1323776631 679458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323776662 527129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, another ocaml complaint: bignums are awkward (although i never used them myself, admittedly) < 1323776665 290030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing that gets me about OCaml's standard library is its naming < 1323776673 831323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :List.hd, List.tl, List.rev, List.length < 1323776687 154311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but they have their own operator set (of course) and you can't use integer literals with them, so I'm pretty sure I'm right) < 1323776694 200914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, ew < 1323776708 151114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and List.append is also Pervasives.(@) < 1323776714 718378 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, Exit is to exit the program, I think < 1323776717 512292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I didn't know about for ages because I was looking in the wrong module < 1323776720 385790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet it has a top-level handler that just exit(0)s < 1323776725 344284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323776729 326162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even that's a two-line wrapper < 1323776750 820717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try … with Exit -> () < 1323776789 634768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :val incr : int ref -> unit < 1323776791 4183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Increment the integer contained in the given reference. Equivalent to fun r -> r := succ !r. < 1323776801 364475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is making me feel so much better about how crufty the Prelude is < 1323776804 133552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that even in the standard library? < 1323776839 765325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not an entirely useless operation, but it's reasonably uncommon, and it's almost as short to write r := !r + 1, and you could define it yourself trivially if you needed to < 1323776850 608966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh yeah, strings are their own type and not an instantiation of some sequence type too < 1323776854 264483 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes so much sense!! < 1323776885 663957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does make sense, in a way; the internal representation is completely different < 1323776895 102839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "of some sequence type" < 1323776904 435725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings are certainly an instantiation of a more general sequence type < 1323776908 419661 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in OCaml's case, probably unboxed arrays < 1323776912 909069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a list interface < 1323776923 749504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, not quite, unboxed null-terminated arrays < 1323776936 868118 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(admittedly haskell ByteString has this flaw too, but there's an effort to define ByteString as Vector Word8s) < 1323776940 939574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what?! < 1323776947 594096 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OCaml uses null-terminated strings? < 1323776955 243357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it stores the length too < 1323776958 823139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1323776968 45931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the null terminator's there so that they can be passed to C functions unchanged, or something < 1323776990 749046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and to make them useless for storing binary data! < 1323776994 420920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the defining feature of OCaml strings is that you can't change their length < 1323777019 646981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even in an impure language I can't think of a decent argument for making strings mutable < 1323777023 596634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even /Python/ has immutable strings < 1323777028 933825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here: earlier towakeperiod I was trying to write a handler that stored every character read < 1323777049 440251 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let me quote to you the types involved in ocaml printf < 1323777051 406792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd) format4 = ('a, 'b, 'c, 'c, 'c, 'd) format6 < 1323777051 586075 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Format strings have a general and highly polymorphic type ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6. Type format6 is built in. The two simplified types, format and format4 below are included for backward compatibility with earlier releases of Objective Caml. 'a is the type of the parameters of the format, 'b is the type of the first argument given to %a and %t printing functions, 'c is the type of the argument transmitted to the first argument of "kprintf" < 1323777051 586260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-style functions, 'd is the result type for the "scanf"-style functions, 'e is the type of the receiver function for the "scanf"-style functions, 'f is the result type for the "printf"-style function. < 1323777052 377710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :type ('a, 'b, 'c) format = ('a, 'b, 'c, 'c) format4 < 1323777054 390528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :val string_of_format : ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6 -> string < 1323777056 419256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Converts a format string into a string. < 1323777058 385509 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :val format_of_string : ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6 -> ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6 < 1323777060 390660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :format_of_string s returns a format string read from the string literal s. < 1323777062 395213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :val (^^) : ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'e, 'f) format6 -> < 1323777063 790343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, suppose you're doing getc in a loop, and you want to store the entire file read < 1323777064 397319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ('f, 'b, 'c, 'e, 'g, 'h) format6 -> ('a, 'b, 'c, 'd, 'g, 'h) format6 < 1323777066 399596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f1 ^^ f2 catenates formats f1 and f2. The result is a format that accepts arguments from f1, then arguments from f2. < 1323777081 858829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have the page open in w3m right now, no real reason to quote it < 1323777131 946273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I wanted it to be O(n), not O(n^2) < 1323777138 139957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of interest, how do you do that in Haskell? < 1323777154 991335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it wouldn't be the same as how I eventually did it in OCaml; the result was slightly lower-level than C < 1323777160 211921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because OCaml doesn't have a realloc equivalent < 1323777185 476837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to do what was effectively malloc + memmove (luckily no explicit free required as it's GCed) < 1323777203 57187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/then/, I had to allocate another string when I was finished, in order to trim it down to size < 1323777363 599116 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323777363 981340 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1323777364 159513 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323777388 873987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly wonders what the top Google result is for "search engine optimization"
< 1323777476 645545 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323777496 135666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the top paid result is from www.seoconsult.com; the first nonpaid result is Wikipedia, and the second www.searchengineoptimisation.org, followed by www.searchengineoptimisation.co.uk < 1323777525 653612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the lesson is, that if you really want to win an SEO war against people who are as cutthroat as you are, make the domain name match the search query exactly < 1323777589 165075 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, indeed; I changed the query to "search optimisation engine", and now the winning non-Wikipedia nonpaid result is on the site www.searchengineoptimising.com < 1323777605 96717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 TOPIC #esoteric :Search optimisation engine | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323777679 720202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, you asked a question < 1323777692 49708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically, suppose you're doing getc in a loop, and you want to store the entire file read < 1323777692 422978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, I wanted it to be O(n), not O(n^2) < 1323777692 603480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : out of interest, how do you do that in Haskell? < 1323777723 50150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :slurp :: Handle -> IO String; slurp h = do { eof <- hIsEOF h; if eof then return "" else (:) <$> getChar <*> slurp h } < 1323777750 47969 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323777786 127256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's for linked-list strings, though < 1323777803 596257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I presume youw ant it for flat-byte-array type things? < 1323777805 305664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you want < 1323778098 165260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, s/getChar/hGetChar h/ < 1323778111 806217 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in which case, an obvious strategy is just s/hGetChar h/B.hGet h 8192/ and then apply B.concat to the result of it all < 1323778150 540150 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual implementation of B.hGetContents says: < 1323778158 140823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This function reads chunks at a time, doubling the chunksize on each read. The final buffer is then realloced to the appropriate size. For files > half of available memory, this may lead to memory exhaustion. Consider using readFile in this case." < 1323778194 866050 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :readFile is clever; it just asks the OS how big the file is, then does one big B.hGet of that size < 1323778565 874117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :( < 1323780253 809176 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323780808 654714 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323780819 639656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot! < 1323780819 836728 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1323781290 363541 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo Phantom_Hoover < 1323781302 865693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hamlo. < 1323781305 215026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hamlo < 1323781347 533018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is there a shorter way to write {struct foo *bar = malloc(sizeof(struct foo)); memcpy(bar, &foo, sizeof(struct foo));} < 1323781545 69458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"struct foo *bar = malloc(sizeof *bar);" is a classical way to write the malloc sorta-type-safely; "*bar = foo" is a shorter way to write the memcpy, if you don't mind letting the compiler decide how to do it, and that some padding bytes may not get moved if it doesn't want to. < 1323781698 240829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct foo *bar = g_memdup(&foo, sizeof foo); if you want to be all glib about it. :p < 1323781809 690296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: glib is the relevant scenario since it's mcmap :P < 1323781817 346613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I just rewrote it as a malloc plus assignments, so oh well. < 1323781848 724080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you mind much if I make a directory for map code? It's just that map_flat.c and map_surface.c and map_cross.c and map_iso.c seems a bit ridiculous. < 1323781872 501275 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to. < 1323781898 598759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most excellente. < 1323782323 777463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was at a seminar, I'm back now < 1323782338 426658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably have understood it better than most of the people there; I managed to follow it eventually < 1323782356 40627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh; what was it about? < 1323782389 254220 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :containers and comonads < 1323782416 773540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, it defined an extra structure on containers, then showed that containers with that structure were all comonads, and all containers that were also comonads had that structure < 1323782426 52490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what definition of container? < 1323782432 624545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we ended up concluding that List actually worked more naturally as a comonad than as a monad < 1323782442 997872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists aren't comonadic < 1323782447 539822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have [a] -> a < 1323782452 230807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonempty lists are though < 1323782453 794938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, nonempty lists < 1323782461 414049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323782487 633197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition's that containers have a set of shapes, each shape has its own set of positions < 1323782515 48450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that the fact that List is a comonad isn't too useful for actual programming, though < 1323782609 393316 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, (=>>) is \xs f -> map f (tails xs) < 1323782617 32398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems useful, in theory < 1323782622 876989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement (a very slow) scanl with it < 1323782667 195049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was defined in terms of unreturn and unflatten < 1323782685 335391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that (=>>) looks like a reasonable definition on that basis < 1323782696 594782 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *extract and duplicate < 1323782709 244126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=>>) is just flip extend, it's the analogy of (>>=) < 1323782715 22606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where extend f = fmap f . duplicate < 1323782727 238291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate is like join, extend is like flip (>>=) < 1323782763 789855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the thing about general definitions like monads and comonads is that there are all sorts of plausible names for the operations < 1323782784 887755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : "This function reads chunks at a time, doubling the chunksize on each read. The final buffer is then realloced to the appropriate size. For files > half of available memory, this may lead to memory exhaustion. Consider using readFile in this case." <-- my OCaml code did that but manually < 1323782806 191714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, it'd have been simpler to read everything into memory first, then parse from memory < 1323782810 182182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nah, the problem is that there's no plausible name for return < 1323782818 920795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :return doesn't make any sense, it's just trying to look vaguely like C < 1323782829 182644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure sort of makes sense but not really < 1323782849 813892 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is meaningful but really bland and unevocative < 1323782850 260512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than parse from disk and hook the parser with a hook that builds up a copy of what it parsed in memory < 1323782857 256193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wrap"? < 1323782866 596749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wrap's worse than any of those < 1323782877 701721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :promotes the container view (fallacy) of monads < 1323782889 207072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas pure promotes the computation view (fallacy) :/) < 1323782914 217573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computation view is pretty much a special case < 1323782933 635205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323782938 496078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of containers are monads < 1323782944 381439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of computations are monads < 1323782951 595651 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but describing monads as either is very wrong and misleading < 1323782960 391928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a "special case" any more than Maybe is a special case of Monad < 1323782964 84242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but I meant that computations all fit into a subset of monads < 1323782964 372636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not, it just has an instance < 1323782972 201595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that have something in common < 1323782979 234204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a little hard to say what < 1323782980 640673 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, OK; "computation" isn't used as something with a precise definition here < 1323782985 228162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1323782988 926742 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead something people analogise to to try and understand monads < 1323782992 736049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't work < 1323783001 910311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. State and IO fit into that < 1323783008 106441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [] doesn't < 1323783017 667116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, [] is nondeterministic computation :P) < 1323783021 82747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I actually have a reasonably computationy view of List < 1323783027 903917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Maybe, fwiw < 1323783033 869389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I just cba to think of a better example off the top of my head < 1323783038 695124 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the computation view isn't as bad as the container view < 1323783038 970142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, which view would you say Identity falls into? < 1323783042 687167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which insists that an (m a) /contains/ an a < 1323783047 664208 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a genuinely useful monad < 1323783054 529399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and talks about (>>=) "unwrapping" the value < 1323783059 138631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just Not Even Wrong < 1323783065 29596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is? < 1323783068 300749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only as the base of a transformer stack < 1323783074 277278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope, it handles taint < 1323783096 325198 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, OK < 1323783102 624617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I doubt the monad part is that useful < 1323783115 151645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative seems as far as you'd want to go with taint most of the time < 1323783138 491505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you definitely need lift for tainting, but Applicative has that, right? < 1323783150 583059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never quite remember what Applicative has, and what it doesn't have < 1323783237 811299 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Applicative is Functor, pure, and (<*>) < 1323783246 632213 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Functor isn't necessary < 1323783251 317658 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap f x = pure f <*> x < 1323783253 537428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do monads have over that? < 1323783256 234683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join < 1323783265 994058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure :: a -> f a, (<*>) :: f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1323783269 387390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :join :: m (m a) -> m a < 1323783280 944879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, join lets the /structure/ of a computation depend on the /result/ of another < 1323783294 750874 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicatives have static control structure, Monads have dynamic control structure < 1323783297 647308 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the case of Identity, you can't really tell whether it exists or not, because it's trivial < 1323783305 168227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only the one structure < 1323783311 816763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it exists or not? huh? < 1323783312 953363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so join is trivial to define but doesn't do anything < 1323783320 306991 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure join does something < 1323783322 157154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, hmm < 1323783324 991298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not denying Identity is a Monad < 1323783338 439870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that I might not agree with "Identity is a useful monad" < 1323783348 367951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1323783354 525539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although do notation is certainly useful for taint, I think you'd usually express computations that can be expressed with Applicative with it < 1323783360 168492 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I'm saying makes sense in my own mind, but is not an elliott-approved concept < 1323783371 82868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323783409 966936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I actually don't know what you mean, though :P < 1323783467 974637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, umm, if there's only one possible definition of something (as in, you can get the definition just from the types), it's impossible to tell whether that definition's being used or not < 1323783470 493574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obviously it /is/ < 1323783502 328049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I almost passed out on the bus this morning, I may not be in a particularly sane state of mind < 1323783510 846666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try not passing out on the bus < 1323783514 876876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION advice
< 1323783532 164343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did; I even succeeded < 1323783537 775876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was pretty close for a while < 1323783540 607893 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :congratulations! now try not almost passing out on the bus < 1323783543 912670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was lucky that today was so incredibly windy < 1323783544 166770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(advanced stage) < 1323783561 154467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helped keep me alert, wind does that < 1323783575 417893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1323783585 707529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, something I read in the paper this morning; you know how non-tech press normally calls all malware viruses? < 1323783613 931156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I saw a variation this time, along the lines of "even if you don't enter any personal information, the malicious pages can still fill your computer with bugs" < 1323783631 122378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was trying to work out what definition of "bugs" they meant, and if it was a reasonable metaphor or not < 1323783678 238962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323783694 591642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the "covert listening device" definition of bug. < 1323783702 425784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: indeed, I was wondering if they meant that < 1323783717 214679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a more accurate description than the typical newspaper one; also, more vague and more confusing < 1323783725 619671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most broadly all a computer user cares about is "it doesn't do what I want" < 1323783729 951348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could call all those bugs < 1323783735 89296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to be weird :P < 1323783746 548694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't consider misfeatures to be bugs < 1323783799 156703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Incidentally, the "listening device" definition of a bug is used in what I believe (from glancing perusal of the earlier discussion) is nowadays your favourite comicky strip ever, the Silence in the Darkness on Q16. < 1323783831 673117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Please tell me you learned this from that discussion and you're not like some super Silence in the Darkness on Q16 fan. < 1323783870 207007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I learned it from the discussion in the sense that post-discussion I click-througed quite a number of black squares; one of the few non-black ones was http://silenceinthedarknessonq16.comicostrich.com/comic.php?cdate=20070512 which uses it. < 1323783887 367993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hadn't heard of SitDoQ16 before today at all.) < 1323783898 662553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose it abbreviates like that?) < 1323783903 361262 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that assurance was all I needed. < 1323784158 487062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm reasonably happy with my object file format < 1323784180 182228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bunch of VHDL comments which contain key/context/value triples, followed by something arbitrary, which could well be VHDL < 1323784188 814847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's context? < 1323784271 386084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like what variable the key applies to < 1323784279 852803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas there are finitely many keys < 1323784288 357174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like part of the value to me < 1323784326 865582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, what? < 1323784338 39395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1323784339 700199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :) < 1323784352 352753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could consider it part of the key, I guess < 1323784361 404933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would probably go straight to key = list of strings and no fixed keys
< 1323784370 143297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should probably ignore unrecognised keys, anyway, for future extensibility < 1323784370 883115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the whole thing's more flexible than just keys and just values, and doesn't really follow a pattern < 1323784379 426493 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed, that seems reasonable < 1323784680 157970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, you have to hear my ridiculous build system idea since nobody else will: < 1323784771 951229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on; one of the most important purposes of this channel is finding people to bounce ridiculous ideas off < 1323784787 681334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: set up a FUSE filesystem that has all the output files existing already; they can be opened fine, but read and stat will block until the files exist for real; then, start every single command that needs to be run in parallel (note: the FUSE filesystem doesn't pretend the output file exists for the process trying to write it, i.e. it knows which file not to fake for each process) < 1323784798 400934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this achieves maximum parallelism thanks to the operating system < 1323784818 849467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reads of yet-to-be-built input files succeed as soon as possible < 1323784833 758274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's awesome, I'm just upset that many compilers will fail on that sort of thing due to being badly designed < 1323784845 614764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not sure they would, actually < 1323784852 847080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most compilers don't break on really slow filesystems < 1323784865 367012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they seek around in the file that they're writing? < 1323784875 133145 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1323784875 318033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't at all surprise me if an ar/tar variant did that < 1323784878 988730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that works fine; the output file is "normal" for each command < 1323784883 620870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's every other output that's faked < 1323784896 988756 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the file to be created doesn't exist in the filesystem each command runs in < 1323784904 581459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, do you only remove the block on the read when the file is actually closed? < 1323784905 28826 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just every other output of the build process < 1323784922 520165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when the command completes successfully, yes; I suppose that would work as an optimisation, too < 1323784922 969906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant it only blocked until the relevant portion of the file had been written < 1323784936 303041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's even better, but most compilers stat < 1323784939 904076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some of them anyway < 1323784948 934077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the vast majority buffer their output fully < 1323784952 897711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that wouldn't actually help much < 1323784953 941827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but stat wouldn't break it, just read-after-write-barrier it < 1323784969 738913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I mean < 1323784974 248334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to wait for the whole thing to finish < 1323784977 943399 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for them to get the correct stat result < 1323784986 697366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I meant by a read-after-write barrier < 1323784988 727938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323784991 931563 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the advantage is negated < 1323785001 781735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what we need? lazy languages < 1323785011 698174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thankfully, I fear this scheme won't work very well < 1323785016 568545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you could have stat return before its results were available < 1323785020 22868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I suspect the overhead of setting up every process is too great < 1323785031 533187 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the scheduler will hate you < 1323785047 897145 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1323785052 544613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's just unsafeInterleaveIO < 1323785063 306533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that what that does? < 1323785073 37391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what's unsafe about it, btw?) < 1323785073 215825 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just (return . unsafePerformIO), essentially < 1323785077 312640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the IO only gets executed when you force the action < 1323785079 306068 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :weeeeeell < 1323785082 597336 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people argue it isn't unsafe < 1323785086 352647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're wrong < 1323785091 486585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exposes evaluation order as IO < 1323785093 192694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1323785103 971532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever some /pure/ code forces the value you get out of an unsafeInterleaveIO action < 1323785106 505822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IO occurs < 1323785121 36071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, it lets you tell things apart that should be indistinguishable < 1323785121 915513 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can justify this as still being inside the IO monad -- it doesn't break purity in a strict sense < 1323785125 250833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's eurgh < 1323785126 599253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not rtue < 1323785127 282234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1323785129 947019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :_|_ lets you do that < 1323785136 131277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to determine evaluation order < 1323785139 368840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... it's icky < 1323785149 527130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getContents uses that, it returns all of stdin as a lazy string < 1323785149 729779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can code to protect your code from _|_ in particular < 1323785154 504276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, what? < 1323785158 709806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using seq or whatever < 1323785167 940560 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're confused, unsafeInterleaveIO doesn't let you tell things apart that should be distinguishable at all < 1323785178 357321 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, they're making a film out of Battleship < 1323785193 740897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the game < 1323785194 958668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… I suppose unsafeInterleaveIO could be implemented in terms of exceptions and an unthrow operation that went back to where the exception was thrown from < 1323785206 172673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd just be a generic war film, right? < 1323785232 438966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "In the Hawaiian Islands, an international naval fleet at Pearl Harbor engage in a very dynamic and intense battle against an alien race known as "The Regents". The aliens come to planet Earth, on a mission to build a power source in the ocean. Upon their visit, they come in contact with the navy fleet. The film is also purported to show both sides of the story, from the aliens' perspective, as well as the humans' so the audience knows exa < 1323785232 757132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctly where the opponent's ships are.[4]" < 1323785235 2722 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323785247 12802 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my games of Battleship usually aren't against aliens... < 1323785255 415220 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello... < 1323785256 588244 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ill < 1323785262 462244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they made a film out of Monopoly yet? < 1323785269 958287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be THE WORST THING EVER AND SO SHIT AND EVERYONE WHO WOULD ENJOY IT SHOULD DIE < 1323785274 3475 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A DEATHLY MANNER < 1323785276 357905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1323785277 209136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd < 1323785296 681329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are quite a few movie trailers for Tetris: The Movie, but I don't think anyone's made it for reals. :/ < 1323785307 178963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, that with games that are simplifications (often huge ones) of reality, then complicating them into a film just makes it look like it's a film based on reality < 1323785312 629019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I know; some of them are quite good < 1323785321 667018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt there'd be enough plot in it to carry a full-length movie < 1323785331 296630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Like a Tetris movie would just be a documentary on the construction of high-rise buildings. < 1323785352 461914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pretty much all non-computer attempts to simulate Tetris that I've seen don't allow for the removal of lines to work correctly < 1323785353 469288 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, there's Complete History of the Soviet Union. < 1323785361 417684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a Tetris board game once; it didn't really work < 1323785362 440850 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has plot and everything! < 1323785384 203367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you completed a line you were meant to put a peg next to it to mean "this line's completed, ignore it" < 1323785389 452786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1323785396 667568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen that, too < 1323785402 639859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you couldn't physically stretch the pieces across it because they were made of rigid plastic < 1323785452 805470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still feeling let down by that "first person" Tetris.
< 1323785465 204168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could have been my favourite game! < 1323785493 420775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no obvious reason why that would necessarily be awful < 1323785494 162437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (Admittedly it's not so much as a Tetris film as a film with Tetris jammed into the side of it.) < 1323785494 585288 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323785496 864792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it just implemented badly? < 1323785499 904256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it wasn't first person < 1323785504 868329 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just rotated the screen as you rotated the piece, that's all < 1323785507 881778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it was standard tetris < 1323785534 980259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it meets one of the necessary conditions to be first person, but is also missing at least one < 1323785535 681701 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah here we are.. hello esofriends :} < 1323785544 800876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hagb4rd < 1323785572 567114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, we found a place to send the lost people < 1323785574 292675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1323785581 206464 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net. < 1323785585 329382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yay < 1323785595 952996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will make a lot of people happier, I think < 1323785614 326756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no reason why esoterica shouldn't be discussed; just it's awkward to put two mostly unrelated subjects in one channel < 1323785625 762777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can still mock them before sending them off, right? :( < 1323785626 263397 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are things goin..look like a rainy day..and this cold winds comin from the northern sea < 1323785631 58492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding Tetris, I think they never got the Chernobyl control center simulator they were building for Altparty 2011 to work. There were people fiddling with it at all times of day during the whole weekend, with multimeters and soldering irons and whatnot, but from what I hear it never quite worked out wrong the right way. < 1323785649 183108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In, um, Tetris? < 1323785672 1072 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, just, you know, associating. Tetris -> Soviet Union + game -> that thing. < 1323785689 660772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simulating that in Tetris would be impressive. < 1323785699 76410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard a rumour that in nuclear power plants, the alarms sound continuously except when there's a problem, when they stop, because it's more noticeable that way or something < 1323785702 297238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's false, though < 1323785711 248300 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems dubious < 1323785716 343732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to notice persistent sounds stopping < 1323785763 176434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed; but it seems like a bizarre decision to make < 1323785772 953459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the other way round would presumably work too < 1323785802 925364 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hunt the errors: http://hpaste.org/55219 < 1323785818 840568 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the little things that are just /wrong/ < 1323785852 363446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the wumpus. < 1323785853 816152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, I've concluded that reducing problems to problems that have already been solved is a fast way to do software development, but tends to lead to subquality programs < 1323785906 994294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I did probably the most bizarre optimization I've done ever this morning < 1323785927 462924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was to a function that calculated strongly connected subsets of graphs < 1323785940 777389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I reject that because it contradicts one of my core principles :P < 1323785942 678095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graph was (and still is) represented as a list of pairs < 1323785943 769183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rational.
< 1323785953 450117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you optimised before getting a better graph representation? < 1323785955 609113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the order is arbitrary < 1323785979 440446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that representation comes naturally out of the problem; optimising the representation would involve writing a conversion function < 1323785988 71964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was profile-guided optimisation, looking for the slowest part and speeding it up < 1323785995 951259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I sped the program up by a factor of 6 simply by reversing the list < 1323786003 580211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323786043 336663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What do you think interact does? < 1323786044 824033 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have zou optimized..the calculating or the drawing part < 1323786048 618186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my theory in this respect is that the list happens to be sorted, and it's quite plausible that sorted lists happen to hit the worst case of whatever algorithm I'm using (I got it from Wikipedia) < 1323786061 602525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Also, you don't want an Array. < 1323786062 292469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reversing it gets rid of that worst-casiness in the case of the algorithm in question < 1323786070 1131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: drawing? < 1323786096 114513 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no idea what interact is, and I have no idea why I would want an array < 1323786107 663419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is an array in Haskell? < 1323786110 443671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Then why did you type "interact $"? < 1323786122 104353 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the type signature seemed right! < 1323786128 721330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What are you trying to do? < 1323786137 620723 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how one could imprve the speed of calculating maths without changing the architecture of your hardware < 1323786137 880702 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can I have a standard response for "your question is unanswerable without you clarifying it"? < 1323786156 511835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1323786164 607552 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because $that. < 1323786167 783033 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, really, I want to learn my latin vocab < 1323786168 458943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, you're in a better position to clarify the questions than I am < 1323786181 985271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because my typical reply is "indeed, I'm not quite sure of what I'm asking, but asked because I want to know what I should be asking" < 1323786189 862194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: That's a bit more general than I was intending my question to be answered in. < 1323786198 78668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't we just assume the response/reply and save time? < 1323786203 152401 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what the entire program is for < 1323786203 373377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, let me rephrase what I said: Rephrase what you said, or I can't answer it. < 1323786212 658447 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: What are you trying to achieve by applying interact? < 1323786244 609026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what operations does a value of type Array x y support in Haskell, and is there anything particularly notable about their performance behaviour? < 1323786252 774398 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the fact that I don't actually know, I'd guess I should rewrite it < 1323786267 54957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t interact < 1323786268 56651 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(String -> String) -> IO () < 1323786274 84918 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed < 1323786280 297983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's (Array i a), where i is the index type, and a is the element type < 1323786287 819026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's just a boxed, lazy array < 1323786298 510404 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, a contiguous region of memory containing pointers to thunks < 1323786312 744858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could almost remember what interact did, just not the details < 1323786317 355394 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the API is crappy and everyone uses Vector instead but Ngevd doesn't want Vector here either I don't think < 1323786326 208925 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interact happens to use lazy IO (-> unsafeInterleaveIO). < 1323786332 153724 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cue sad track (is that a thing?) < 1323786335 433622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, so it supports operations like copy but with one element changed? < 1323786357 330913 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There are mutable and immutable versions; the immutable version is stuff like that, yes. < 1323786360 250847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I'd expect an array to do in a pure functional language < 1323786375 699181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also unboxed arrays, but that's not the type being used here. < 1323786381 465656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also the API is horrible and everyone uses Vector instead. < 1323786382 254828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the sort of thing that can reasonably easily be optimised by the compiler into mutation behind the scenes, in cases where the optimisation is obviously correct (which are common) < 1323786386 660911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I said that enough? < 1323786390 872084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not reasonably easy at all < 1323786408 9453 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GHC does do it, but it's not something I'd want to rely on < 1323786430 783883 :kallisti!~eris@h91.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323786431 198782 :kallisti!~eris@h91.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1323786431 383920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1323786476 950824 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: anyway, I think you should use an explicit pattern match instead of either there < 1323786489 520649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you can tell that you're using interact wrong, because < 1323786495 961888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the most obvious case is if there's only possibly one reference to the input array, and it goes out of scope upon the copy-replace operation < 1323786496 843779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { ... IO stuff ... } :: IO a (for some a) < 1323786501 660692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in (interact f), f must :: String -> String < 1323786506 407233 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO a =/= (String -> String) < 1323786515 596973 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, sufficiently smart compilers are really easy to explain < 1323786518 557803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I find that's reasonably common in functional languages < 1323786524 588368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: gcc can implement that < 1323786526 309823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and take decades to implement < 1323786533 517941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: gcc doesn't implement Haskell < 1323786544 934285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine that most compilers that even vaguely do optimisations do that, actually < 1323786567 910020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you'd need a stupidly smart compiler if the array operation was written in Haskell, rather than hardcoded into the compiler < 1323786588 563532 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc implements array operations as fairly thin wrappers over primitives < 1323786598 217318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, I think you're vastly oversimplifying things < 1323786636 227089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's see, there are two properties we need to check; "only reference" and "dies here" < 1323786655 84118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dies here" is trivial to check; in most compilers that go via SSA you need to actively throw away information to not track that < 1323786672 412301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i am disagreeing with your assessment of the situation < 1323786677 189443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like debating it right now though < 1323786683 348541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"only reference" is rather harder, but the common case where you just created the reference and haven't passed it to anything else yet can be optimised < 1323786699 518340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, what about this for an argument: I actually implemented that optimisation for Underload in derlo < 1323786715 45778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except at runtime < 1323786717 662261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am glad we live in that special world where Underload is Haskell < 1323786733 732972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why do you think that Haskell is somehow magically special when it comes to this? < 1323786740 646074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, Underload shares many properties that make this kind of mutating optimisation tricky in Haskell, such as full laziness! < 1323786742 7061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, hmm. < 1323786744 58772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1323786753 959066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I forgot about laziness < 1323786770 749687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world needs a strict version of Haskell < 1323786777 766193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it really doesn't < 1323786785 255026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily because it'd be better, but because it would make it much easier to compare it with things < 1323786792 688029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323786795 646899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's DDC. < 1323786806 281747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has lots of innovations that have nothing to do with laziness, and the laziness gets in the way when you'd like to evaluate them on their own < 1323786824 697667 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haskell is for people who want to write programs, not for people who want to debate languages :P < 1323786918 831121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, does Ngevd's Haskell program seriously say "interact $ do"? < 1323786930 419369 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323786930 865529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder it jumped out at elliott < 1323786946 237011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial type errors are quite easy to spot :P < 1323786988 531076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, String = [Char] and thus is a monad action type, technically speaking… < 1323787007 448767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1323787013 181017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, yes < 1323787017 401811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but that's irrelevant < 1323787021 238833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the head is (->) here < 1323787024 436652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the reader monad < 1323787036 605320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, that's what I first thought < 1323787039 146995 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I forgot about the $ < 1323787040 640457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, err, getStdGen rather ruins that theory < 1323787045 302515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1323787048 387555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the $ is irrelevant < 1323787051 702565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just (interact (do ...)) < 1323787059 233026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, hmm < 1323787066 92453 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1323787087 521813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it is relevant < 1323787098 190421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if it had been (interact $ (do …) "abc") < 1323787102 759800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1323787105 111201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't < 1323787113 365780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that doesn't make sense either < 1323787126 430679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: When did map.h start including world.h? :/ < 1323787127 269885 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'll explain a lot if I explain that I don't find Haskell intuitive < 1323787136 339386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you've said that < 1323787153 597255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write in it, but I often make crazy type mistakes or whatever due to not grasping it < 1323787163 545125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in OCaml, pretty much all the type errors I make are typos < 1323787178 29565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because OCaml's type system is too shallow to catch any real type errors :) < 1323787183 963021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323787184 163515 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRUUUUUN < 1323787188 4868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait until Anarchy comes around < 1323787204 298582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no language called Anarchy is allowed to have a type system < 1323787230 325270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that it's statically typed with a really expressive type system, that's also massively complex but it doesn't matter because the types aren't user-visible < 1323787245 492231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have problems just coming up with a notation to write the types down < 1323787248 883525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1323787255 233160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: $ git blame map.h | grep world.h < 1323787255 418203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :3105a3b3 (Elliott Hird 2011-07-23 10:00:04 +0100 5) #include "world.h" < 1323787258 659067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Better ask yourself that. < 1323787262 253713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-( < 1323787266 76674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't matter because it just makes sure that the program types for the specific uses of the functions you're using < 1323787271 399696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scapegoat won't have blame, right? < 1323787274 272355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rimshot
< 1323787289 252712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd be hard not to ;) < 1323787298 606336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think it's called scapegoat in the first place? < 1323787302 234211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1323787303 170708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already < 1323787303 692350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did < 1323787304 605908 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rimshot < 1323787309 253886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to point it out :'( < 1323787312 371397 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait until Anarchy comes around <== isn't that how everything started? < 1323787323 576983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: nah, Anarchy's an esolang < 1323787327 549250 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323787327 983978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will be, once I work it out < 1323787329 42222 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1323787337 287221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I should've used "git annotate", it's less bitchy. < 1323787342 174372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is slightly more implemented than most completely vaporware esolangs, because it has a parser, which also actually works < 1323787356 652223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this puts it in a different category from Cyclexa, which has only a parser but it doesn't work) < 1323787386 534957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, hmm, Cyclexa : Anarchy :: UNIX : @, but less so < 1323787402 881441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, a better analogy < 1323787407 671079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyclexa : Anarchy :: bash : Powershell < 1323787412 371588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, add some more spaces around those colons, or those words will start fighting < 1323787412 556658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more so < 1323787425 308657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1323787434 645093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: UNIX and @ < 1323787438 586541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1323787451 666631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was something like the third interpretation I tried < 1323787485 159773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, it seems that the next big thing in JavaScript implementation is type inference < 1323787502 581352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as part of the language, but getting the compilers to infer types so that they don't have to put type checks in at runtime < 1323787520 823929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next big thing? < 1323787524 121716 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the previous big thing < 1323787535 712370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, they've been doing that, or at least talking about doing that, for years < 1323787535 896963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, have they managed it now? they were starting on it last I looked < 1323787543 370035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well it may be that they're only just now succeeding :) < 1323787568 114380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, in Anarchy tuples and lists are special cases of the same thing < 1323787585 858415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably obvious, but they use the same type constructor, (,) < 1323787610 508821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure anarchy isn't just dynamically typed :) < 1323787623 74803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the defining feature of Anarchy is just picking up a convenient type constructor from somewhere and not worrying about if it already means something else < 1323787633 55980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's aptly named < 1323787675 882174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could call it an instance of the whole sufficiently smart compiler thing, with respect to "a sufficiently smart compiler should just magically figure out all the types I'm using even if they make no sense" < 1323787681 815624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I think it's practical < 1323787730 778379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm not really sure what to do about polymorphic recursion < 1323787738 222215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obviously allowed, and also obviously not allowed in general < 1323787744 739469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't figure out what the restrictions are < 1323787825 68238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest way would just be to put an arbitrary limit on the number of different type constructors that can be used in any given type (whether or not they have the same names; or perhaps only if they have the same names, as only a finite number of type constructor names can be used in any given program) < 1323787857 689975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just take the fixed-point < 1323787881 937554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed; the problem is, I'm not yet convinced it's computable to determine if there is a fixed-point < 1323787902 74871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it'll turn out that there's always one, so its computability is not in question < 1323787909 448986 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :y isnt just restricted by avaiable memory? < 1323787936 232994 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :]that < 1323787942 848978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: the limit's to detect infinite loops in the traditional crude way of "well, it hasn't finished yet, it's probably infinite" < 1323787957 875417 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott saz < 1323787964 346696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1323787966 778123 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :says its limited < 1323787982 756194 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of constructors < 1323787985 772386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says what's limited? < 1323787990 110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is the one who said that. < 1323787992 972728 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he just said "finite". < 1323787998 369405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs are finite, usually... < 1323788030 763257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: if you can write a program containing infinitely many different names for type constructors, good on you, but don't expect me to be able to compile it, or even yourself to be able to fit it in a pastebin < 1323788033 852182 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it was ais: as only a finite number of type constructor names can be used in any given program < 1323788050 18662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finitely many, not a fixed amount < 1323788053 52035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: well, you can't exactly generate them at runtime < 1323788056 290402 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just curious < 1323788063 945196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be anarchic, but it isn't Perl < 1323788068 69367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, limited by memory = a finite limit :) < 1323788075 38603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: i was just answering your curiosity < 1323788111 633217 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. so everything works out fine < 1323788223 969794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ban fizzie please. :/ < 1323788255 38792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the offense of not inventing names for you? < 1323788267 112975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1323788274 394164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very upset. < 1323788285 981336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, of course it's decidable < 1323788338 650291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the same issue is why Haskell and OCaml's error messages for type errors are less helpful than usual when recursion is involved < 1323788364 673249 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id < 1323788365 495460 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a < 1323788382 382275 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are? < 1323788387 223604 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if you specify a type signature, at least < 1323788397 748247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I mean in the case of inference only < 1323788429 39112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :typically what they end up complaining about is nonobvious because it's based on a bunch of assumptions that you hadn't meant to be correct < 1323788493 365149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is "even-length list" a type expressible in Haskell? < 1323788509 303766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, extremely trivially < 1323788514 136818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you think for a second to figure out how < 1323788526 746389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but not in a way that's a special case of [], right? < 1323788567 222430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I can define EvenList a = Nil | ConsEven a (OddList a) and OddList a = ConsOdd a (EvenList a) < 1323788574 382341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no: to do that would require subtyping, which wreaks hell on inference; I suspect you would accept something that could be constructed like (Foo [1,2,3,4]), in which case I will complain that you're giving list literal syntax undue weight :) < 1323788593 958143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was going for data EvenList a = Nil | Cons a a (EvenList a) < 1323788605 828936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not EvenList = Nil | Cons a (OddList a) and OddList = Cons a (EvenList a) < 1323788612 628386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1323788616 989466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you can't get the tail with a pattern-match < 1323788645 740160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, yes you can, just put the element back manually < 1323788679 463362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the definition which uses Cons in both places rather than ConsEven and ConsOdd is what you'd use in Anarchy, if you could specify types at all rather than having them inferred < 1323788685 951246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it desugars into ConsEven and ConsOdd < 1323788710 736491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although probably with less meaningful names < 1323788860 551833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha I have found the hipsterest metal. < 1323789325 339779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, recent discovery: YouTube's making people give them their cellphone number to uncap accounts and allow them to upload videos longer than 15 minutes < 1323789329 252862 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323789337 898624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure I can explain that away in any way /but/ being evil < 1323789899 108903 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323789947 199440 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323790062 654426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to avoid bots clogging the servers? < 1323790086 185464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not the only requirement < 1323790367 267569 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323790377 238332 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323790443 393067 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323790462 324453 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323790785 544700 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323790964 296527 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a Japanese ditto last night :D < 1323790994 38024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: err, context? < 1323790999 640285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be Pokémon, but I'm not sure it is < 1323791002 961895 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1323791017 165713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flawless speed and HP stat? < 1323791021 409586 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, just japanese < 1323791051 950617 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really get a quebecois game and do shenanigans if I ever decide to try to breed pokes for combat < 1323791185 681989 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't, the international bonus effectively works out to a 13% decrease in the length of time it takes to train them up to level 50/100, which is not really noticeable < 1323791195 697163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no impact on the actual eventual stats < 1323791306 842048 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1323791450 489241 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323791747 313704 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I wasn't talking about that < 1323791758 432981 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't think quebecois would count as international < 1323791768 969616 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shininess that I'm going for < 1323791788 699066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would; the cartridges for games in a particular language are identical < 1323791807 21084 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would register it as having the same location < 1323791809 848855 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's my location < 1323791810 71529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't distinguish US/France from England/France from English Canadian/French Canadian < 1323791826 963166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :registered location is ignored, I think, because it's so easily faked < 1323791835 349573 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323791890 789129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TIL that detonating a nuclear bomb was only banned in 1998 < 1323791893 680839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK < 1323791914 48735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was a consequence of the comprehensive test ban treaty; typically, detonating a nuclear bomb before then would typically violate some other law indirectly) < 1323792739 670075 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about just possessing a nuclear bomb, that legal? < 1323793364 84750 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323793461 316985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best ISP-given workaround ever. Paraphrasing here: "We've switched some mobile data connections to use NAT; connecting mobile devices will randomly get either a public IP or a NATted one. [What do I do if a service I'm using requires a public IP?] In this case, you must try establishing the connection again until you get a public IP. Use [link] to check your current IP." < 1323793467 931358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most helpful. < 1323793504 49442 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323793574 161924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official justification is the predicted sparsity of v4 addresses. < 1323793604 960175 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So give 'em IPv6 addresses. They'll do just fine. < 1323793618 538363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be too futuristic. < 1323793965 784291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of surprised at how slowly IPv6 is being adopted. < 1323794027 684701 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't like change changing < 1323794068 633796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think NAT probably has slowed down the change as well? < 1323794102 213016 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it lets everyone procrastinate the looming address exhaustion apocalypse < 1323794120 530586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no real reason you can't just NAT further and further. < 1323794138 777290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1323794139 491686 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1323794142 986618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ugly. ;_; < 1323794181 10512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was a good idea. < 1323794227 209950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :""[...] it is possible that its [NAT's] widespread use will significantly delay the need to deploy IPv6. [...] It is probably safe to say that networks would be better off without NAT [...]" -- "Some" < 1323794252 654881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what Some[6] say, according to Wikipedia < 1323794682 216444 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the Some Institute of Somersville. < 1323795613 355761 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1323795764 534631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323796197 828100 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1323797050 177511 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think station v3 has a sort of gilligan's isle sort of plot except it does seem they are always endeavouring to get from A to B < 1323797080 8944 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the characters they would all look perfectly at home in commander keen < 1323797292 472131 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... oh i think i see now.. im just in complete confusion over all the events since im just reading from a random position < 1323797316 374826 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus giving the illusion that lots of stuff was all miraculously invented at once < 1323797400 493196 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like how video games seemed amazing all at once, despite requiring the discovery of electricity, the invention of computers, the invention of television, the invention of the microchip, < 1323797740 413869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the invention of people. < 1323797756 735299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the invention of money < 1323797774 277655 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :life too < 1323797782 247398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eyes < 1323797783 812810 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hands < 1323797793 975415 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :light < 1323797819 329456 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323797844 44390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its te same effect when you encounter a webcomic for the first time < 1323797866 189998 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can seem like theres endless pages until you catch up < 1323797894 781653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, to be fair, theres endless webcomics out there < 1323798280 574879 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did itidus get incremented? o_0 < 1323798342 464682 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs itidus21 < 1323798368 135520 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17205 < 1323798430 865940 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 from 23rd july < 1323798436 16666 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs itidus20 < 1323798444 43185 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29013 < 1323798477 510484 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus20 from 16th july .. it seems to vary back and forth < 1323798513 686513 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a phenomenon which requires explanation < 1323798538 79683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my alt nick i guess < 1323798566 290987 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i am not used to irc, i havent made provisions to use underscores < 1323798744 122263 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323799281 863479 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1323801433 936431 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did freshmeat.net change to freecode.com??? < 1323801527 485782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :___---_-----------------------_______ < 1323801547 776838 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 2011-10-29 < 1323801570 90688 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I would have noticed that if it hadn't become so irrelevant. < 1323801577 5745 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323801741 611755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you're irrelevant. < 1323801785 633589 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you're a relephant < 1323802021 378770 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323802558 273152 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323802771 188056 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323802980 655760 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323803877 799362 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323804061 744782 :kallisti!~eris@h91.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804061 921945 :kallisti!~eris@h91.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1323804061 922088 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804110 272191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer just overheated on my bed. < 1323804113 170807 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I need to clean the fan. < 1323804227 802769 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it catch on fire < 1323804280 594469 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804348 844040 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804432 366045 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1323804441 23407 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it turned itself off < 1323804453 188081 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not nearly as cool as spontaneous combustion < 1323804482 283473 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert heat joke < 1323804483 288291 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804483 464785 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-173.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1323804483 464932 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323804657 223080 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323805163 633119 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat lol &| echo < 1323805166 67639 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `|' \ bash: -c: line 0: `cat lol &| echo' < 1323805169 403339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat lol | echo < 1323805172 379873 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ cat: lol: No such file or directory < 1323805178 364781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323805187 15146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that thing that's like 2>&1 | < 1323805200 776245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat lol |& echo < 1323805203 12195 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323805243 24855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat lol | echo < 1323805245 774466 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\ cat: lol: No such file or directory < 1323805534 370906 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1323805704 216526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :head -c 200 | head -n 2 < 1323805714 114809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :can this be combined into a single head command? < 1323805746 94211 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried the obvious yet? < 1323805754 416926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not. :P < 1323805765 116274 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1323805768 982947 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me know < 1323805776 928873 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I think I did try it a while ago. < 1323805787 465052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I will try again because I don't remember < 1323805835 115811 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ambiguous without an explicit ordering though so I don't think it would work. < 1323805885 981244 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah using -c with -n just ignores -n < 1323806293 821344 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1323806909 440053 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1323806963 412050 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9**9**9 < 1323806964 326958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Infinity < 1323807124 409824 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close enough. < 1323807448 338871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323807913 969469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = qw(a b c); print splice @a, 0, 5 < 1323807916 784547 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc < 1323807941 424335 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323807949 291251 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1323807953 995452 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = qw(a b c); map {print "ha" if undefined } splice @a, 0, 5 < 1323807954 588129 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1323807970 182496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = qw(a b c); map {print "ha" if !defined } splice @a, 0, 5 < 1323807983 272171 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sanity. check. < 1323808391 110240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9^9^9 < 1323808396 231070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1323808396 465431 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: Prelude.undefined < 1323808400 684745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just checking.) < 1323808410 61605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess "Infinity" was closer. < 1323808824 609217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9^9 < 1323808825 506906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 387420489 < 1323808841 196175 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return my (defined wantarray? undef : $s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323808841 860253 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't declare null operation in "my" at /tmp/input.23478 line 1, near ") =" < 1323808848 583469 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323808853 2128 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOO < 1323808860 349348 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my completely beautiful code is ruined. < 1323808867 889650 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to use /multiple lines/ < 1323808918 261709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd sort of think the point of my is that it's lexically scoped at compile-time < 1323808958 81675 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return my (defined wantarray? undef : $s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323808958 545776 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't declare null operation in "my" at /tmp/input.23726 line 1, near ") =" < 1323808972 426701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return (defined wantarray? undef : $$s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323808972 998973 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modification of a read-only value attempted at /tmp/input.23799 line 1. < 1323808993 383953 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return (defined wantarray? (undef) : $$s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323808994 13036 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assignment to both a list and a scalar at /tmp/input.23860 line 1, near "2;" < 1323809018 200743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return (defined wantarray? (undef) : ($$s)) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323809018 773145 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1323809025 523331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323809079 887361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay maybe there's a better way to write that in one line. < 1323809094 325679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return (defined wantarray? $_ : $$s) = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323809094 901805 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1323809118 600879 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return defined wantarray? $_ : $$s = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s < 1323809119 174301 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1323809131 262680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more confusing without the parens I think. < 1323809179 509108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return defined wantarray? $_ : $$s = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s; print < 1323809180 123525 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :222 < 1323809186 126596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it overwrites $_ < 1323809194 382673 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\$) { my ($s) = @_; return defined wantarray? my $_ : $$s = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s; print < 1323809194 988650 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 < 1323809197 966816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1323809270 373267 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :return (defined wantarray? my $_ : $$s) = join "\n", (splice @lines, 0, $n // $line_cap); < 1323809276 63252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my opus magnus. < 1323809326 375369 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also write my (undef) < 1323809341 853458 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait no that wouldn't work < 1323809377 199509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323809410 358823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test(\_) { my ($s) = @_; return defined wantarray? my $_ : $$s = 2; } local $, = ' '; my $s = 1; print test $s; test $s; print $s; print < 1323809411 6505 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malformed prototype for main::test: \_ at /tmp/input.24632 line 1. < 1323809421 489186 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, I would think \_ could be a valid prototype < 1323809436 968081 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a nice comfy chair (without legs) < 1323809466 260907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What'd it mean? I mean, _'s not a sigil. < 1323809483 262910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ means to use $_ if no argument is supplied. < 1323809489 160773 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the multimana semiring (from Icosahedral RPG) is like (Cont Natural Five) because, a mana can be (Five -> Natural) to tell you how many copies of a prime factor, and a mana -> Natural tells you what integer multiple of that mana is added together. It won't work to read the amount of your mana in Haskell, because the set of manas is infinite. < 1323809490 28190 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's otherwise treated as $ < 1323809521 262189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but: "Any backslashed prototype character represents an actual argument that absolutely must start with that character." That's not going to work for a \_. < 1323809534 546481 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a dumb rule. :P < 1323809549 912179 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is talking about what should be.
< 1323809572 608883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1323809585 956380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd like to get a scalarref to $_ if the argument is missing? < 1323809586 439497 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of perl operators mutate $_ in place < 1323809591 613620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323809620 689071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually need it right now < 1323809626 996712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just something I could see being useful to have. < 1323809632 621642 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that make a semiring if the result type (r) of a continuation is a semiring? < 1323809633 891052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :when emulating perl operators. < 1323809733 419442 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but I'm pretty sure you can just do that with manual hacks. < 1323809741 970294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since $_ can be modified in-place anywhere < 1323809788 794537 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make the argument optional. if it's missing, modify a non-lexically bound $_ < 1323809789 20199 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course to implement in Haskell requires additional constraints) < 1323809918 80456 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub foo (;\$) { my $ref = shift // \$_; $$ref = "ha"; } $_ = "x"; foo; my $bar = "y"; foo $bar; print "$_ $bar"; < 1323809918 603153 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha < 1323809921 146957 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: man I really wish Perl 6 were a branched language and perl 6 were just some basic improvements to perl 5. < 1323809994 188513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm < 1323810026 500194 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I misread. yes that's basically what I was suggesting. < 1323810056 341429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't even arguably look that bad, since it's just a //\$_ piece of line-noise. < 1323810072 385033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :($ref? $$ref : $_) = "ha"; < 1323810074 104303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :works as well. < 1323810088 529078 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I am immune to perl line noise.. < 1323810091 437680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't bother me. < 1323810093 539665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/\/\/ do the wave. < 1323810141 408441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look at perl and see a beautiful language. :) < 1323810168 268819 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ocular adjustment required < 1323810182 197503 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE I SEE WITH MY BRAIN. < 1323810190 861758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see beauty with my brain anyway. < 1323810199 162416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably other things too! < 1323810256 905830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey I just found a great way to grab two elements at a time. < 1323810284 177173 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :while( my ($x,$y) = splice @array, 0, 2 ) { ... } < 1323810293 790385 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323810296 931629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@array needs to be something you don't mind throwing away. < 1323810297 259099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrr! < 1323810297 767892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 elliott: the most obvious case is if there's only possibly one reference to the input array [...] <-- congratulations on reinventing the Clean language < 1323810297 944290 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1323810361 395456 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323810392 199072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :return (defined wantarray? my $_ : $$s) = join "\n", (splice @lines, 0, $n // $line_cap); < 1323810395 274262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: look at this < 1323810407 390618 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that perle < 1323810410 543223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323810434 655555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Isn't there a module for that?-) (Grabbing two elements from a list at a time.) < 1323810443 697759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: List::MoreUtils < 1323810456 791792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, the well-named "natatime". < 1323810477 757645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's natatime! Let's all nata the nat up. < 1323810480 367907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not standard though. splice is built-in and arguably takes less code. < 1323810490 403386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it FAST. < 1323810492 975223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :since natatime uses an iterator object so you need a line before the loop to create it. < 1323810508 739211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: probably not as fast no. < 1323810519 262026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it deletes and resizes the array. < 1323810541 282470 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but yes that's always my first question when talking about something in perl. < 1323810739 541909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(my $x; $x+1 != $#array; ++$x) < 1323810747 853648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fastest natatime < 1323810808 320679 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ($a,$b) = @array[$x,++$x] < 1323810814 920839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: I was going for data EvenList a = Nil | Cons a a (EvenList a) <-- type EvenList a = [(a,a)] kthxbye < 1323810842 365082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also the most scientific benchmark ever: < 1323810843 168812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -e 'use Time::HiRes qw(time); use List::MoreUtils qw(natatime); { my @a; $#a = 10000000; $t1s = time; while (my ($x, $y) = splice @a, 0, 2) {} $t1e = time; } { my @a; $#a = 10000000; $t2s = time; for (my $it = natatime 2, @a; my ($x, $y) = $it->(); ) {} $t2e = time; } print $t1e-$t1s, " ", $t2e-$t2s, "\n";' < 1323810843 500052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.51157808303833 2.85868787765503 < 1323810859 217842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Splice is them victorious. < 1323810864 314552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow. < 1323810869 74080 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect that. < 1323810933 667714 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps perl has a way to efficient remove elements from the front of a list or something? < 1323810937 767958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*efficiently < 1323810949 691024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have done something "worng", like my ADSL router configuration interface puts it. But anyhow. < 1323810972 124579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I guess natatime is written in perl whereas splice is in C, but that's still only constant factors so... < 1323810981 459196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe at higher inputs natatime beats splice? < 1323811070 168148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added a zero (well, technically, two zeros), but ran out of memory. :/ < 1323811085 626061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubling goes to 3.05185985565186 5.66645216941833, that looks quite O(n) that far. < 1323811096 279075 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1323811097 510667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Cave Story+?? < 1323811109 8491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah I guess splice can just do efficient deletes at the front (and maybe the end) of arrays. < 1323811176 222901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : my computer just overheated on my bed. <-- you are not supposed to use it for that, sheesh < 1323811193 214645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: perl works hard to maintain its position of just slightly slower than most scripting languages. < 1323811301 818993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know the old adage, you have to run hard in order to run a still. Or something like that, anyway. (I think it's talking about outrunning the cops.) < 1323811313 901282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323811326 312457 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Has been for a while. (Though it's rather new for PC.) < 1323811328 9976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :prohibition era fuck yeaaaah < 1323811341 297026 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG the bundle has Gratuitous Space Battles. < 1323811364 849437 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is definitely worth the 70p I plan to pay for it. < 1323811388 472618 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll get neither CS+ nor GSB for 70p < 1323811463 906376 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh FFS. < 1323811474 120423 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are people so infuriatingly ethical. < 1323811510 513584 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already owned them both and I still paid well above the average, so... sorry, I guess? < 1323811520 813514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you so much. < 1323811550 522565 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, only 3 new games out of 7, it appears < 1323811560 480956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Henceforth, the part of Finland Deewiant lives in is officially in Sweden. < 1323811573 654960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a C program where are static variables allocated? < 1323811581 559755 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to check with the local authorities; I doubt it < 1323811593 403700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pah, what do they know. < 1323811705 703761 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really a C question but a compiler question, but generally I'd expect them to end up in either the .data, .rodata or .bss section of the executable, depending on constness and zeroinitiality. < 1323811842 114696 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah I knew it wasn't a language question. I just wanted a general idea of what happens there regardless of compiler. < 1323811871 336159 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often ask about a "language" when I really mean "what generally happens in many implementations" < 1323811982 703988 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You totally lack proper DS9K attitude < 1323812000 526009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely recall a comp.lang.c thread about whether the standard says anything about the value of a local (in-function) static variable before the function has been executed for the first time. < 1323812016 853541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slightly hard to test for that empirically. < 1323812031 489654 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hates language lawyery answers to such implementation-related questions.
< 1323812069 91155 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The correct answer to a randomly chosen C question is usually "it's undefined; if you're feeling lucky, read the documentation for your environment, they might tell you" < 1323812074 212706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have to be in the standard. I just want a general idea of what you can typically expect, if anything. < 1323812086 945551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes that happens a lot. :P < 1323812110 387226 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, implementors aren't typically dickish enough for such answers to be realistic < 1323812197 892924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as it turns out < 1323812202 631423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is a good language to write IRC bots in. < 1323812224 35464 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1323812256 599551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you know of a way to "delay" interpolation. Basically to have a string with $ variables in it and then fill those variables in later. < 1323812267 576434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eval. :p < 1323812272 257919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... yes. < 1323812282 974316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget the eval hacks. < 1323812315 460790 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have to make sure I don't expose anything to IRC. < 1323812318 529736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: substitution? < 1323812327 338855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes I use that currently for one thing. < 1323812329 929322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vague.
< 1323812332 861020 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably would end up with quoting-related issues. < 1323812361 136313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess with no strict refs a single s///e might be able to do it too. < 1323812386 177451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for ($x = 1; x < 5; x++) { s/.*/$x/; print; } < 1323812386 354330 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a... single one? < 1323812386 720295 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't modify constant item in postincrement (++) at /tmp/input.29417 line 1, near "x++" < 1323812392 948447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323812399 420209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl for ($x = 1; $x < 5; $x++) { s/.*/$x/; print; } < 1323812400 87559 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234 < 1323812456 419454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\$(\w+)/${$1}/ge or something like that? I don't really know. IIRC you can use a string as a scalarref with no strict refs. < 1323812472 179445 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's correct < 1323812491 892566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "lifetime warranty" nonsense just reached new heights. I saw an advert for a GPU having "double lifetime warranty" < 1323812496 959187 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue what that means < 1323812523 936711 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :double rainbow? < 1323812534 807099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: clearly it means for the lifetime of your heir. < 1323812535 273814 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323812540 347335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if I expose that feature to IRC then it would prevent things like @{[`find / -type f -delete`]} < 1323812544 625803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right < 1323812575 103191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be possible with a basic eval. < 1323812643 295177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $a = 1; $b = 2; sub foo { my $s = shift; my ($a, $b) = (42, 69); $s =~ s/\$(\w+)/${$1}/eg; return $s; } print foo('a$a, b$b'); < 1323812643 815430 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a1, b2 < 1323812660 532409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently won't go with lexical scope there, unsurprisingly. < 1323812672 920279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what's wrong with his suggestion.
< 1323812733 260502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :new humble bundle btw < 1323812813 317301 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not sure what your suggestion was. The !perl snippet seemed somewhat unrelated for turning a string '$foo $bar' (received from somewhere) into the string '[current value of $foo] [current value of $bar]'. < 1323812820 888511 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what I'll probably end up doing is using a hash so s/\$(\w+)/$vars{$1}//$$1" < 1323812823 945831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1323812826 643527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally hit enter. < 1323812860 445031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what I'll probably end up doing is using a hash so s(\$(\w+))($vars{$1}//'$'.$1)e < 1323812911 809459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done a substitute-with-keys-from-a-hash-with-s///e too, though I think I used %foo% or some-such for the placeholders, since it's clearly not "real" variable interpolation. < 1323812949 237112 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also so DOS-batch-file-retroistic. If I recall them right. < 1323812960 766232 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :%s were involved anyway. < 1323813028 349303 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python has a modified printf where you can pass in a dictionary and %(name)s will interpolate to d['name']. it's pretty handy. < 1323813062 709604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :%var%, but %N for positional params? There was some unsymmetry like that. < 1323813199 212019 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION might learn Ruby one of these days.
< 1323813270 79677 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-58.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: gone < 1323813335 254944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... perl is so comfy as my scripting language. feels nice. < 1323813926 561234 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1323814090 515335 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CA22.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323814556 730030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why would I want to use autoloader? < 1323814687 645642 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323814864 336831 :Darth_Cliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net NICK :Klisz < 1323814907 869536 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1323814990 902314 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323816360 667368 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323816428 941320 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323816737 712490 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323816780 543324 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323816816 136022 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323816839 412270 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323817043 492577 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323817117 799580 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. so that's why I kept having problems when I didn't qualify all of my imported subroutines. < 1323817129 690291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put my package declaration /after/ my imports. < 1323817152 60779 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the names were going into the main specify, and then I switched over to my package namespace, which didn't have those names. < 1323817186 222031 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/specify/namespace (?#....?)/ < 1323817297 360076 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlmod.html#BEGIN%2c-UNITCHECK%2c-CHECK%2c-INIT-and-END < 1323817305 179083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my favorite example program in all the docs. < 1323817318 478861 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The begincheck program makes it all clear, eventually" < 1323817379 550768 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how DOS batch files work; it is %var% for environment variables and %1 for parameter 1 and so on. < 1323817426 260282 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if there is any such things as continuation semiring? < 1323817445 780683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow "Note that END code blocks are not executed at the end of a string eval(): if any END code blocks are created in a string eval(), they will be executed just as any other END code block of that package in LIFO order just before the interpreter is being exited." < 1323817622 760334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone actually uses UNITCHECK, CHECK, or INIT < 1323817679 405011 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess UNITCHECK could be useful. < 1323817697 247563 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: later chat < 1323817886 464667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Because the old-fashioned syntax is still supported for backwards compatibility, if you try to use a string like "This is $owner's house" , you'll be accessing $owner::s ; that is, the $s variable in package owner , which is probably not what you meant. " < 1323817893 579355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's a nice little gotcha < 1323817914 438947 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323817937 834733 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use LWP'Simple 'get'; print get("http://www.google.com/"); < 1323817938 537574 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate LWP/Simple.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /tmp/input.6122 line 1. < 1323817951 759436 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1323817956 691569 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to use ' instead of :: now :P
< 1323818100 856377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a package called m, s, or y, then you can't use the qualified form of an identifier because it would be instead interpreted as a pattern match, a substitution, or a transliteration. < 1323818104 907951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahahaha < 1323818117 557355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION names his Perl web app framework m
< 1323818295 938962 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't define an import method < 1323818313 69339 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have no way of accessing anything. < 1323818458 515469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could use %m:: and access the symbol table < 1323818711 473609 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323818893 94186 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make this kind of commutative applicative: a *> z = z <* a < 1323818911 809341 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is a communist functor/applicative/monad? < 1323818963 663290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: functor/applicative/monads that believe in a class-less Haskell. (I have no idea) < 1323818988 726116 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323819111 837889 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323819135 350946 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323819280 353589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] *> [4,5,6] < 1323819281 195936 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,5,6,4,5,6,4,5,6] < 1323819303 83170 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [4,5,6] <* [1,2,3] < 1323819303 872808 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6] < 1323819316 313848 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1323819409 389714 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323819447 183878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you'd want flip (liftA2 const) = liftA2 (const id) < 1323819448 202497 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It doesn't apply to list, it is not commutative < 1323819601 641257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1323819602 811604 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323819659 973298 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you want to be commutative again? < 1323819692 469903 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mean, some applicatives are commutative < 1323819714 413363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323819746 666718 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it sounded like you were asking if such a thing existed. < 1323819765 723879 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :By writing like f <$> x <*> y = flip f <$> y <*> x < 1323819793 611252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently commutative monad is the same but with join. < 1323819793 827237 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (*>) < 1323819794 554752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f a -> f b -> f b < 1323819799 47081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*) < 1323819799 851648 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f a -> f b -> f a < 1323819843 613937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Maybe and Reader are commutative, iirc < 1323819857 877643 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe is, yes. < 1323819864 869626 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Maybe is commutative < 1323819879 957648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what was your question? < 1323819891 705917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :<< zzo38> Can you make this kind of commutative applicative: a *> z = z <* a < 1323819910 903071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any applicative commutative in the usual sense should fulfil that < 1323819923 712778 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My question is to do a *> z = z <* a rather than f <$> x <*> y = flip f <$> y <*> x are there a difference? < 1323819929 981649 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1323819938 110924 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1323819942 879477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm there _might_ be < 1323819955 308229 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for *>, f = const id < 1323819962 948635 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is there a different between commutative applicative and commutative monad? Commutative applicative makes more sense to me < 1323819963 667974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for <*, f = const < 1323819994 379627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip const < 1323819995 141066 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b a. a -> b -> b < 1323819997 946314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip (const id) < 1323819998 774250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. a -> b -> a < 1323820005 581011 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think i showed the other day that they are the same thing, you just apply an extra join to get the monad version < 1323820027 485218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an extra return to get the applicative one < 1323820043 694330 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I think elliott wrote the code for the commutative monads and it seem to me, it is the same thing but with join. < 1323820064 574091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :do x <- mx; y <- my; f x y = join $ liftM2 f x y < 1323820117 158322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1323820117 336174 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that was the code they showed to me and I realized it is same as your code < 1323820124 885860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* do x <- mx; y <- my; f x y = join $ liftM2 f mx my < 1323820133 215575 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is better < 1323820160 998532 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is there an applicative that isn't a monad? < 1323820174 217537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :liftM2 f mx my = do x <- mx; y <- my; (\x y -> return (f x y)) x y < 1323820227 872310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a free applicative defined with a GADT, for example < 1323820237 86399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"free"? < 1323820284 842004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data FreeA where Pure :: a -> FreeA a; (:<*>) :: (FreeA (a -> b)) -> FreeA a -> FreeA b < 1323820288 606775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1323820292 658097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that kind of free. < 1323820308 587355 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't know that had a name.
< 1323820348 878374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i'm not sure if that's quite right, but something like that; anyhow the point is to construct something which obviously allows _just_ the Applicative operations < 1323820397 253081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing above is probably too simple < 1323820474 655714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it keeps getting discussed how to make an Applicative which isn't a Monad and i keep forgetting the examples < 1323820537 25622 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is co-applicative a thing? < 1323820571 29301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323820582 249748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1323820597 789203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :impure :: FreeA a -> a < 1323820679 905809 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/FreeA/g/ < 1323820725 932734 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what would (>*<) be? < 1323820752 53061 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323820933 815585 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-230.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323820934 109521 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-242-17.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323821072 487141 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does applicative have any category theoretic definition? < 1323821500 19268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"technically, a strong lax monoidal functor" < 1323821551 504169 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1323821559 297365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i rethought my definition of a free applicative < 1323821597 996304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data FreeA where Pure :: a -> FreeA t a; (:<*>) :: FreeA t (a -> b) -> t a -> FreeA t b < 1323821631 238950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you then have some data constructor t providing you with your fundamental actions < 1323821690 407432 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :help how do I define a function that constructs a value with type FreeA t a < 1323821740 992471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Pure :: a -> FreeA t a would be one... < 1323821780 482633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :another would be (Pure id :<*>) :: t a -> FreeA t a < 1323821815 770970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is how you would normally convert a value of type t a < 1323821855 466522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right I was confusing something with something else. < 1323821895 324282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323821899 897436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Needs reboot < 1323821905 351212 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323822122 100119 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323822300 779495 :Nisstyre!~yours@infocalypse-net.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1323822473 291666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION steals oerjan's soul and casts Lightning Lvl 1,000,000 oerjan's body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because oerjan is only a Lvl 2 Druid.
< 1323822671 420750 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323822837 358660 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323822994 748393 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323823130 203982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* kallisti steals oerjan's soul and casts Lightning Lvl 1,000,000 oerjan's body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because oerjan is only a Lvl 2 Druid. < 1323823150 409848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't do that. < 1323823201 206700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel freaked out like ais523 when people say "damn you" to him < 1323823409 910899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you could have possibly timed it worse, either. < 1323823494 589381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit you're even afk, aren't you. < 1323823845 275063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Damn you. < 1323823925 594408 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323824023 493128 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :revert http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Language_list&curid=960&diff=26056&oldid=26045 plz < 1323824266 774907 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...please undo/rollback? < 1323824356 341661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323824399 814793 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Language_list&curid=960&diff=26056&oldid=26045 < 1323824417 658756 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rollback/undo it < 1323824438 578841 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17|afk: i'm not an admin so i cannot rollback, anyone can undo it though... < 1323824447 350146 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1323824471 788691 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what undo is BTW < 1323824479 335954 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were an admin < 1323824588 548900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott certainly keeps joking about it < 1323824595 835266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not lately < 1323824640 242778 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Listgrouprights an error? < 1323824669 434701 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323824694 893329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it says no such special page exists... < 1323824753 115955 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:ListGroupRights ... < 1323824764 970579 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be really old MediaWiki then < 1323824768 693383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1323824811 196784 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323824850 756776 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323825059 452471 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1323825217 168223 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323825274 538001 :PiRSquared17|afk!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiQuad < 1323825557 729086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Applicative FreeA t where pure = Pure; Pure f <*> Pure x = Pure (f x); fa <*> (ga :<*> xa) = Pure (.) <*> fa :<*> ga :<*> xa; fa <*> Pure y = Pure ($ y) <*> fa; < 1323825604 787115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1323825646 296165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instance Applicative FreeA t where pure = Pure; Pure f <*> Pure x = Pure (f x); fa <*> (ga :<*> xa) = Pure (.) <*> fa <*> ga :<*> xa; fa <*> Pure y = Pure ($ y) <*> fa; < 1323825668 817837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who came up with the idea of a bulky transformer right in the plug? Those things block more than one slot... < 1323825738 779900 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323825886 586800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t ($ ($ ($ ?x))) < 1323825887 426550 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b b1 a b2. (?x::a) => (((((a -> b2) -> b2) -> b1) -> b1) -> b) -> b < 1323826248 238885 :PiQuad!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1323826688 626366 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CA22.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323827057 45090 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323827930 197151 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323828163 673121 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323829044 864138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mad < 1323829047 875265 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." < 1323829621 93003 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: later chat < 1323829635 481218 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323830632 875610 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, update < 1323831036 975390 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323831219 762666 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323831319 564235 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you know if there is such thing as continuation semiring? < 1323831379 643618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1323831418 637154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot say i recall ever seeing those two concepts in the same context < 1323832052 547098 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was thinking of the semiring of multimanas in Icosahedral RPG and see maybe it is like ((Five -> Natural) -> Natural) because you have a function that, for each prime mana, tells how many copies of that multiplied together, and then how many of each mana is added together. < 1323832054 957189 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1323832135 7011 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323832158 350899 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PART :#esoteric < 1323832276 775215 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323832317 405448 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this seem anything to you? < 1323832328 177432 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Client Quit < 1323832362 35931 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323832480 44297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that just summing a map over the list of all Five's? < 1323832500 386490 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ((a -> r) -> r) like what I have above, I notice that the (r) I have is semiring and the (a) is a bounded type (so you can check all of them). < 1323832507 533173 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323832534 584970 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I suppose so. But I noticed the similarity to type of continuation monads < 1323832637 222353 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323832757 998561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum $ map (ord * ord + ord) ['a'..'e'] < 1323832758 825395 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 49510 < 1323832773 928465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that? < 1323832804 226211 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think so? < 1323832809 52260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just using lambdabot's Num n => a -> n instances < 1323832817 163549 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1323832848 969594 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that isn't what I was trying to say < 1323832852 781667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how else you'd want to treat it as a semiring < 1323832897 699162 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 NICK :itidus21 < 1323832932 737856 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323832934 608169 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try to explain better. Manas make a monoid, you multiply manas together and it is commutative. There are five prime manas (named 'w', 'u', 'b', 'r', and 'g'). For example, (w), (1), (wwwb), (wubrg) are manas. < 1323832980 429688 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then the sum of zero or more manas is called multimana. For example, (2w+1), (3ggr+5b+uu), etc < 1323832987 116932 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do you understand? < 1323833066 910947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok i don't really think ((Five -> Natural) -> Natural) is the type of multimana < 1323833070 272228 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(These are the manas in Icosahedral RPG; they are different from manas in Magic: the Gathering.) < 1323833100 209053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or... < 1323833135 658192 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK. I understand how that type cannot be used to check how much mana you have and stuff, but it still seems mathematically valid to me. Explain what you think it is? < 1323833151 236348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the Five -> Natural type supposed to be some number assignment to each prime mana, which you then substitute into the expression? that could work i guess. < 1323833204 448024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a semiring homomorphism from your expressions to such functions < 1323833225 153746 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that is what I mean; (Five -> Natural) tell you how many of each prime mana you have multiplied together. And it is commutative multiplication. < 1323833237 564823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no that is not what i mean... < 1323833261 783749 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, it is what I mean, though. < 1323833290 681626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, Five -> Natural represents a mana then. < 1323833298 425155 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1323833376 479260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok, i guess that sort of works... except that there are an infinite number of manas, so you cannot really calculate anything useful that involves more than finitely many of them. < 1323833400 707433 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323833405 742068 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that is what I was saying too < 1323833427 732043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically ((Five -> Natural) -> Natural) doesn't tell you which arguments you need to check < 1323833606 143278 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323833766 33736 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323833785 854614 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; you cannot actually figure out the manas you have with that. But it should still be mathematically valid to have, I think? You could still have infinite sums, but supernatural numbers do too (except that supernatural numbers can have a prime number to the power of infinity) < 1323833831 62446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it would be as mathematically valid as set theory functions < 1323833997 148857 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1323834050 260007 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And continuations are also using a type like that, I think? < 1323834100 238142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. it's Cont Natural Five < 1323834193 504022 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323834245 52257 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. Like that. I think, for (Cont r a) in general it will be (Bounded a, Eq r, Semiring r) and in this case the types have that? I don't really know though, about other cases with these constraints, or without, or whatever, but something seem to me < 1323834250 668634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that there is any interesting connection in semantics, though < 1323834312 54839 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323834319 386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not convinced you can actually compute the product of two ((Five -> Natural) -> Natural) elements < 1323834331 70050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have it halt < 1323834341 52378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm well < 1323834350 602549 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i guess you can < 1323834398 439147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since given a Five -> Natural function, there are only finitely many pairs that sum to it < 1323834466 837252 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1323834530 344264 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323834552 79141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a kind of convolution < 1323834555 620416 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323834574 804209 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1323834842 870689 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323834908 457187 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323835028 200880 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think so < 1323835296 255786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323835321 181653 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323835344 482172 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 NICK :itidus21 < 1323835425 715085 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323835566 599707 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323835815 414059 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323835830 81350 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323835864 751713 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323835900 648443 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323835977 679331 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323836103 441202 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323836122 642421 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323836186 650859 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323836384 370191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bouncy < 1323836403 198759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's alive! < 1323836465 557546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I miss something? < 1323836486 642224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, absolutely nothing. don't you dare to read backscroll. < 1323836506 634648 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323836530 984332 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323836590 146531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, there was this: instance Applicative FreeA t where pure = Pure; Pure f <*> Pure x = Pure (f x); fa <*> (ga :<*> xa) = Pure (.) <*> fa <*> ga :<*> xa; fa <*> Pure y = Pure ($ y) <*> fa; < 1323836656 161399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone said something about an update. < 1323836754 737235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION squints his eyes to read all the funny symbols.
< 1323836768 835688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously need to get VISION AIDING THINGS. < 1323836786 368159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with x-rays! < 1323836802 119648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay yes... all of these things make sense. < 1323836804 919597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1323836871 211799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a reminder, data FreeA where Pure :: a -> FreeA t a; (:<*>) :: FreeA t (a -> b) -> t a -> FreeA t b < 1323836911 349771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323836923 949427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and some infixl 4 :<*> to get the syntax to fit < 1323836936 740480 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand the purpose of the t though < 1323836960 537068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the t is the data type providing your primitive actions < 1323836966 567838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than Pure < 1323837018 667620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically every element looks like Pure f :<*> ta :<*> tb :<*> ... :<*> tz < 1323837039 409995 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay it just makes it... type correctly. < 1323837065 564882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323837067 236035 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323837083 1821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1323837086 72672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1323837087 411218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet1: hi < 1323837103 466454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must say i have never tried this 17:00-04:31 sleep pattern before. < 1323837129 820189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have. < 1323837135 146612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh, that's 7 months ago for me. < 1323837139 483939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that's so < 1323837140 518843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very often, though. < 1323837164 834986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be worse; i've woken up well-rested not all that long before dawn < 1323837188 412699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you couldn't possibly match my insane-sleep-patterns hipster cred. < 1323837199 195830 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1323837202 722161 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1323837211 750049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: dude, "sleeping every other day" is my /standard/ pattern < 1323837224 883881 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, I'm totally not impersonating Jafet. < 1323837236 942450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: good, good < 1323837238 268822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi not Jafet < 1323837238 685196 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: WHY SO UNAFFILIATED < 1323837252 527860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: there is no way you have had crazier sleep patterns than me < 1323837280 882586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:10: i think station v3 has a sort of gilligan's isle sort of plot except it does seem they are always endeavouring to get from A to B < 1323837281 58863 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:24:40: as for the characters they would all look perfectly at home in commander keen < 1323837281 59042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:12: ... oh i think i see now.. im just in complete confusion over all the events since im just reading from a random position < 1323837281 59159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:36: thus giving the illusion that lots of stuff was all miraculously invented at once < 1323837281 902028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:30:00: kind of like how video games seemed amazing all at once, despite requiring the discovery of electricity, the invention of computers, the invention of television, the invention of the microchip, < 1323837284 885581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:35:40: the invention of people. < 1323837286 945622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:35:56: the invention of money < 1323837288 895466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:36:14: life too < 1323837290 899252 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:36:22: eyes < 1323837292 899027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:36:23: hands < 1323837294 905841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:36:33: light < 1323837296 906095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:36:59: hmm < 1323837298 919175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is beautiful < 1323837304 877744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it was even better when i read those two kallisti lines as itidus21 < 1323837329 785134 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I apparently have the most chameleon name. < 1323837337 770105 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :blending in with everyones nicks. < 1323837342 140378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kamellisti < 1323837347 119784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:37:13: When did freshmeat.net change to freecode.com??? < 1323837350 520152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Woooooow. < 1323837370 960691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well it's the same length :P < 1323837375 811975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has i and t < 1323837412 665439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh great, another Humble Bundle. < 1323837412 841536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I certainly don't skip days when I have no reason to, but often it happens that I need to be awake at a certain hour and not sleeping is the way to do it. But as I've said I've more or less maintaining any kind of daily interval of sleep you could imagine. < 1323837421 23375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dunno I think it's happened a few times with other nicks as well. < 1323837422 876878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to DREAD them. < 1323837446 295410 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the dragon ball z effect... when dragonball z starts all the dragon ball characters and backstories have been established < 1323837450 510196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :creepy bundles < 1323837459 894891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: What I mean is: When I don't do anything to control my sleep schedule, I either sleep an hour or two later every early morning, or sleep once every other day. < 1323837466 261588 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving everyone just to beat the proverbial snot out of each other < 1323837478 409314 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: :D < 1323837510 591669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NightSky is an atmospheric, 2D physics puzzle platformer. The player uses acceleration, gravity, and motion to navigate a glowing sphere through over 130 unique and picturesque levels. < 1323837510 767713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this looks nice, and Idon't have Super Meat Boy < 1323837513 527164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION flings some proverbial snot at itidus21
< 1323837517 92002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: nah man dbz is all about humor and nuanced character development and plot twists. < 1323837518 660559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Cave Story+ < 1323837523 291634 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :Guest1234 < 1323837526 783306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I doubt I could bring myself to play it over the original translation < 1323837527 407178 :Guest1234!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :Guest12345 < 1323837536 937301 :Guest12345!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PART :#esoteric < 1323837542 955968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i... guess i'll buy it sometime < 1323837547 858983 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Cave Story? < 1323837559 110191 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cave story is made by pixel < 1323837571 832226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cave story is made by pixels < 1323837577 878912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: An indie platforming game released in 2004 made by a single Japanese guy. < 1323837579 650185 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, in the wrong context, really doesn't add much < 1323837653 632879 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: According to an interview, he's married. < 1323837663 446687 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1323837668 206437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i see wut u did ther!!!!!!!!!!!11111111124 < 1323837674 187376 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders whether he will ever tire of the "purposely misinterpret people" game.
< 1323837745 600213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a base form of humor, but it is humor < 1323837755 489582 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the highest form of humour. < 1323837779 876334 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically being in australia i should spell it with a u < 1323837787 719591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Drugs are bad. < 1323837792 804019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See, I deliberately misinterpreted you!) < 1323837794 941397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HAHAHAHAA;] < 1323837796 35105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1323837899 728713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: an Agora quote, from the thread "On dummy player records in the CotC DB": These are the known unknowns, how are you labeling the unknown unknowns? "ehird", mostly. < 1323837917 417711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good show < 1323837919 641846 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGORA NOM! < 1323837923 999388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tommy is a programmer, probably the best programmer ever. He is the one and only programmer for Super Meat Boy. He travels the world searching for other programmers to kill and absorb their powers < 1323837924 382646 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY FAVOURITE GAME! < 1323837926 948338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*G., technically.) < 1323837933 740260 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good bio entry. < 1323837937 13443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But oerjan is too OLD for that.) < 1323837943 409939 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes.... that's good < 1323837949 674106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is converted already? < 1323837951 130254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(He remembers the philosopher post-redesign.) < 1323837952 859861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pre- < 1323837983 517689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did the lists prepend "DIS:"/"BUS:"/"OFF:" prefixes in your days??? < 1323838009 951346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhh, the eff have been replaced by red cross in the humble bundle? < 1323838011 33999 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: TOTALLY. AGORA NOM NOM NOM. < 1323838021 114991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-NG4f7O1vQ < 1323838023 901468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen to this guys voice. < 1323838038 951531 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how I feel about it. Sometimes it's annoying, other times it's funny. < 1323838047 316821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :other times it sounds normal. < 1323838062 520329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes they did < 1323838074 479212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, possibly not DIS: < 1323838083 320246 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, now I have to try and remember whether or not Red Cross are worth giving money to or not < 1323838105 699544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, but every forum was public back In The Day, right? I guess I don't actually know when tue came along < 1323838153 90481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: depends how far back, discussion was explicitly made non-public so people didn't have to read it < 1323838179 802549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: haha, well, you'd have a hard time playing without reading a-d these days < 1323838191 139567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1323838200 948946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, not really < 1323838215 195542 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but you'd force everyone to cfj to let you know something you did failed :P < 1323838221 678614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just pointing it out, for one < 1323838236 890901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323838297 556235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IST HAT MEGAUPLOD SONG STUCK IN MY HEAD < 1323838479 747993 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punishment for reading the Internet. < 1323838500 744160 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So doun't read the Internet. That'll soulve everything. < 1323838508 351959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION logs on to the @ternet.
< 1323838524 642772 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Enjoy your time in fantasy-land. < 1323838544 528300 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm told by an unreliable source that drugs are bad. < 1323838561 932969 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: SURFIN' THE @TERNET WAAAVES, MAAAN < 1323838641 606712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the afternet < 1323838681 752468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323838686 134171 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 1954, Olds and Milner found that rats with metal electrodes implanted into their nucleus accumbens as well as their septal nuclei repeatedly pressed a lever activating this region, and did so in preference to eating and drinking, eventually dying of exhaustion." < 1323838692 874901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :levers: the ultimate high < 1323838716 929718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:58:41: fizzie: man I really wish Perl 6 were a branched language and perl 6 were just some basic improvements to perl 5. < 1323838741 669923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You sure do complain about Perl 6 a lot without actually providing any complaints other than a lack of some kind of "Perl essence". < 1323838756 606755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dude, you don't know about the Perl essence? < 1323838759 632436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1323838769 466949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIGHT AS I WAS ABOUT TO RESPOND TO OERJAN < 1323838803 90595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:04:57: @tell ais523 elliott: the most obvious case is if there's only possibly one reference to the input array [...] <-- congratulations on reinventing the Clean language < 1323838803 266653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you /enforce/ it with uniqueness typing it works just fine of courser, but the most comfortable notation to use that is something like do notation... so you might as well just use the equivalent ST :P < 1323838807 62164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*course, < 1323838827 397903 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:13:34: ais523: I was going for data EvenList a = Nil | Cons a a (EvenList a) <-- type EvenList a = [(a,a)] kthxbye < 1323838828 384675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes. < 1323838837 665415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that but decided to be more explicit. < 1323838857 627477 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my main complaint is that it doesn't feel very coherent. < 1323838884 288351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you've spent about 1% of the effort you have learning Perl 5 on learning Perl 6. < 1323838893 809294 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323838915 453796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm offended that you would say such a thing. < 1323838944 42577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As someone who's spend 200% of the effort I have learning Perl 5 on learning Perl 6, I can say that Perl 6 definitely seems coherent to me. < 1323838984 393809 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm technically a committer to Perl 6! < 1323838992 198719 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the commit bit forced onto me. < 1323839044 665647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Perl 6 has a repository? < 1323839055 242965 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :github.com/perl6 < 1323839076 104767 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, like, 50 repositories. < 1323839095 162931 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FVO 50 ET 24 < 1323839110 99369 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently I have commit access to all of them? < 1323839157 932851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Quick, destroy Perl 6! < 1323839185 731059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:51:24: data FreeA where Pure :: a -> FreeA a; (:<*>) :: (FreeA (a -> b)) -> FreeA a -> FreeA b < 1323839185 928115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:52:28: um i'm not sure if that's quite right, but something like that; anyhow the point is to construct something which obviously allows _just_ the Applicative operations < 1323839186 104205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:53:17: that thing above is probably too simple < 1323839188 176697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's fine. < 1323839195 872 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Better: I will sneak in insidious commits that will slow their development pace to a crawl, forever keeping Perl 6 in the realm of vapourware. < 1323839198 60092 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Wait. < 1323839214 464263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval p _ (Pure a) = a; eval p a (f :<*> x) = a (eval p a f) (eval p a x) < 1323839221 258617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Dun dun DUNNNNNN < 1323839278 479144 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:38:50: * kallisti steals oerjan's soul and casts Lightning Lvl 1,000,000 oerjan's body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because oerjan is only a Lvl 2 Druid. < 1323839278 657878 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:39:10: please don't do that. < 1323839278 834076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:40:01: i feel freaked out like ais523 when people say "damn you" to him < 1323839279 10136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:43:29: i don't think you could have possibly timed it worse, either. < 1323839280 904520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:44:54: dammit you're even afk, aren't you.00:50:45: -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Damn you.). < 1323839296 3924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan You realise you just guaranteed that PH will say something like that to you sometime. < 1323839296 219260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1323839417 298680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:21:05: did I miss something? < 1323839417 480315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:21:26: no, absolutely nothing. don't you dare to read backscroll. < 1323839418 155988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1323839421 394406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: don't look a few lines up < 1323839476 471346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have no clue what I did. < 1323839491 486897 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I told you not to look a few lines up. < 1323839532 330990 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I did! Damn you. < 1323839552 431857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean by "I have no clue what I did", anyway. < 1323839593 183762 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're correct that I haven't spent as much time learning perl 6, however, I /have/ actually read the spec. < 1323839618 657658 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly can't fault it for some interesting language design ideas. < 1323839643 999950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I feel it suffers from... syntactic overload. < 1323839702 291665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike Perl 5. < 1323839749 192702 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1323839764 488036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was sarcasm. < 1323839764 664071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 5 is well-balanced compared to perl 6. < 1323839768 567121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know. < 1323839777 191421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION disagrees.
< 1323839783 108645 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that thing where I counter your sarcasm by taking it seriously. < 1323839786 424519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that thing. < 1323839790 420940 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 5 has a ton of syntactic space devoted to useless things. < 1323839801 288698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 has a ton of syntactic space devoted to useful things like higher-order operations. < 1323839816 461439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl 6 has a ton of syntactic space devoted to fixing weird issues. < 1323839836 693866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whitespace significance in particular. < 1323839857 752059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs; this is not goign to be productive.
< 1323839859 812004 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*going < 1323839861 727221 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's split the difference and all use Perl 5.5. < 1323839977 34970 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spec basically reads: "in Perl 6 whitespace is more or less optional... (next section) now here is how perl 6 is highly dependent on whitespace when parsing." < 1323840050 472027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In general, whitespace is optional in Perl 6 except where it is needed to separate constructs that would be misconstrued as a single token or other syntactic unit. (In other words, Perl 6 follows the standard longest-token principle, or in the cases of large constructs, a prefer shifting to reducing principle. See "Grammatical Categories" below for more on how a Perl program is analyzed into tokens.)" < 1323840052 765554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not quite the same thing. < 1323840088 42485 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHITESPACE IS STUPID LOL < 1323840117 867251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by "next section" I was referring to the next section and not the same paragraph. < 1323840128 561146 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it goes into the gory details of operator parsing and whitespace < 1323840135 214656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I was saying that it does not say "in Perl 6 whitespace is more or less optional". < 1323840149 325049 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "it's optional except where it is needed to separate constructs", which is exactly what the next section explains. < 1323840203 688629 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmk. I'll remember the exact wording next time to avoid English-lawyering. < 1323840233 250942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awesome when you can dismiss proving your statements unreasonable as lawyering. < 1323840236 465907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so convenient! < 1323840285 36048 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except they weren't unreasonable I just used a wording which is slightly different but more or less (uh oh) means the same thing. < 1323840317 903013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1323840344 137790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to dismiss all disagreements of meaning as syntactic lawyering. < 1323840382 351965 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1323840499 588413 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even going to attempt to refute what I seem to do. < 1323840691 869956 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Stop arguing about semantics. We're talking about the important stuff here. < 1323840705 90966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, the lexical syntax of comments. < 1323840722 237350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments? < 1323840730 217260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Wadlers_Law < 1323840735 243609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Wadler%27s_Law < 1323840737 490951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right that. < 1323841449 441838 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously syntax isn't important at all. < 1323841507 42895 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure if Haskell were exactly the same semantically except every lexeme were a ROT13'd counterpart, it would be just as expressive and intuitive. < 1323841523 577491 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er not rot13 < 1323841531 811465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one, with the bigger number. < 1323841533 366666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323841690 182329 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Haskell does support layout and non-layout mode, and literate programs can use > or \begin{code} and in both of these cases you can mix them in a single program. (I prefer non-layout mode with > for literate programs, but they are good that they support the other way too) < 1323841817 509230 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unattributed quotation is: "A good programmer can write FORTRAN in any language; a great one could write Haskell." < 1323841829 391315 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti update < 1323841892 271176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing X in Y is usually a bad idea. < 1323842053 69811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can 3*t ever be negative where t is a positive two's-complement 32-bit integer? Can 3*t ever be positive where t is a negative two's-complement 32-bit integer? < 1323842129 198436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And where 3*t is treated as a positive two's-complement 32-bit integer, of course.) < 1323842428 2505 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323843154 419287 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f27d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323843400 71189 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f090.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323843789 731718 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think so < 1323843801 547642 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I won't bother figuring it out properly < 1323843810 879530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot < 1323843924 2761 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, tumblrupdate < 1323843937 445029 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, positive->negative is trivial, just choose a positive number larger than 0x80000000/3 < 1323844238 349514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has restored to Stack Overflow to answer a question :-(
< 1323844328 642653 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(){for(char t=-128;;++t)if(t<0&&(char)(3*t)>=0)return printf("%d\n",t);} < 1323844333 498284 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-85 < 1323844361 112974 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: THAT'S JUST CHARS, YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING < 1323844387 452394 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(){for(int t=INT_MIN;;++t)if(t<0&&(char)(3*t)>=0)return printf("%d\n",t);} < 1323844388 868047 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does not compile. < 1323844410 26130 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: haha, does not even compile! < 1323844410 785431 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(){for(int t=-2147483648;;++t)if(t<0&&(char)(3*t)>=0)return printf("%d\n",t);} < 1323844413 304146 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-2147483648 < 1323844420 191385 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c int main(){for(int t=-2147483648;;++t)if(t<0&&3*t>=0)return printf("%d\n",t);} < 1323844446 23441 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-1431655765 < 1323844456 361765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ;__; < 1323844461 386432 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cry < 1323844521 842133 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323846117 337885 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1323846249 654028 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could have answered that question without the program. it is VERY OBVIOUS < 1323846274 510388 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a "ReadthisT" monad transformer < 1323846630 895957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Stack Overflow was... surprisingly helpful. < 1323846689 378872 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is sgeo talking about every time he says update? homestuck? < 1323846728 175491 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I wondered about that too < 1323846748 769051 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: He's talking about the updates... < 1323846752 933521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of life. < 1323846757 633228 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :auuuuuuuuuum < 1323846760 724749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Right? < 1323847154 545889 :const!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1323847492 973813 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1323847869 901473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :map_surface.c:17:2: error: missing sentinel in function call [-Werror=format] < 1323847876 559272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011 :') < 1323847899 83789 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323847982 565630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1323847992 837753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WHY IS "int *foo = foo;" LEGAL < 1323848002 534840 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND NON-WARNING-PRODUCING < 1323848268 633636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo 'void f(void) { int *foo = foo; }' | gcc -xc - -o test.o -c -Wuninitialized -Winit-self < 1323848268 851270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :: In function ‘f’: < 1323848268 851478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric ::1: warning: ‘foo’ is used uninitialized in this function < 1323848283 905183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather weird that -Winit-self isn't enabled by -Wall/-Wextra like plain -Wuninitialized is. < 1323848313 401121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Guess what's going into the mcmap Makefile < 1323848319 917651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't immediately invent any real use cases for self-initialization. < 1323848330 856712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always UB, isn't it < 1323848333 59448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1323848335 174229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for static variables < 1323848339 38309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for locals < 1323848358 346801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose int *foo = bar(&foo) might SOMETIMES by useful? < 1323848401 743413 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it might sometimes be useful like that. < 1323848402 251749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess, but that wouldn't cause a warning anyway, since the &foo expression is not using the uninitialized value. < 1323848424 179318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp < 1323848444 632595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the by, is it legal to cast a pointer to a struct to a pointer to a prefix of it? < 1323848446 499383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then use that. < 1323848457 252606 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where prefix = prefix of the members, same type and all < 1323848468 252220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. {int a,b,c;unsigned d;} vs. {int a,b,c;unsigned d;char *foo;} < 1323848497 327358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if the structs are part of a single union declaration somewhere (anywhere) in the code. :p < 1323848511 341629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Seriously? < 1323848514 236916 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should that kind of prefixing be allowed in LLVM? < 1323848515 724708 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least ISTR that the "initial common subsequence" rule was only valid for structs in a union. < 1323848527 537929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, but surely it has to be a union value for that to be OK... < 1323848535 206792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think it has to be. < 1323848541 829666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What. What. < 1323848542 624325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The structures just need to be in an union somewhere. < 1323848544 144415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But... < 1323848546 263699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why. < 1323848550 116078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, better question: < 1323848555 565031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the impression I've gotten, anyway; I'd have to check if it's actually like that. < 1323848558 704093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct bar {struct foo foo; ...} < 1323848566 924027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I cast (struct bar *) to (struct foo *) and do the obvious? < 1323848572 141025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that you can do. < 1323848579 231607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, good :P < 1323848585 805223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because casting to the first member is legal. < 1323848620 727178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And back.) < 1323848634 580754 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f090.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de < 1323848640 365383 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The context is that 5 out of 8 functions in struct map_mode are shared between all flat maps, but flat_mode is duplicating the other 3, and it's ugly, so I'm going to invert me some controls.) < 1323848706 614982 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, if we were writing C++, you'd just inherit it. < 1323848730 214938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And this is composition instead, so ha < 1323848734 448010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C: More OO than C++ < 1323849109 508749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the "common initial sequence" rule in C99 in fact does mention "the union object". And even if the wording is a bit unclear (it has some fluff about "common initial part of any of them anywhere that a declaration of the completed type of the union is visible"), the intent is clearly just to allow the usual union event { struct { int type; } anyevent; struct { int type; int blurb; } blarbevent; ... }; ... switch(u.anyevent.type) { case BLARB: frob( < 1323849109 723350 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :u.blarbevent.blurb); } sort of thing. < 1323849206 120752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1323849365 988568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose some people have just then reasoned from that that since the compiler can't layout 'struct blarbevent' differently within the union object than it does elsewhere, it's still legal for any 'struct blarbevent' to access 'type' via a struct anyevent * as long as the union declaration exists somewhere. < 1323849374 653325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's called LOGIC, and there's no place for THAT in C. < 1323849399 678982 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It can't? < 1323849404 350784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't it lay it out specially there. < 1323849490 713941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because void foo(struct blarbevent *p) { ... } can't know whether it should use the special union layout or not, for the calls in struct blarbevent justblarb; union event eww; foo(&justblarb); foo(&eww.blarbevent); < 1323849501 342324 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's two conceptions of what "C" is: what ISO C permits, and what you can get away with on common compilers. < 1323849506 630311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It could pass a flag! But okay :P < 1323849595 793787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also obviously on non-DS9K the initial sequence rule works everywhere. But I guess it's generally speaking better if you just cast to the first member, since that's kosher. < 1323849604 694297 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-230.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm of the opinion that the ISO C spec is written by madmen, incidentally. < 1323849769 554893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also weirdly, the ISO webstore was made up to look like C1x was out already, even though from what I've managed to gather it's not, at least the WG14 page doesn't say anything in the 'news' section, nor the wikipedia article. < 1323849798 117338 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=57853 "ISO/IEC 9899:2011 .. Stage: 60.60 (2011-12-08) .. 60.60: International Standard published" < 1323849805 184064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it might be out? < 1323849811 335386 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-08 is kinda recent. < 1323849839 597944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Weird. < 1323849849 832518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not been on proggit or anything. < 1323849860 314766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The DISPENSERS OF SUPREME TRUTH.) < 1323849965 549391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, or ~anywhere else that I could find, which is what is confusing me. < 1323850073 37627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe they just finalised it but haven't actually super-duper-officially ratified it yet, and it's /published/ but not finalised? < 1323850085 696607 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. They're publishing it in preparation for saying "it's finalised, everyone buy it now!". < 1323850219 491637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it might be something like that, though the stage codes don't go any further than 60.60 (except for periodical-review and withdrawal paths). And it passed some sort of a national-body "final review" in October. But I guess they'd want it available before and not after the official "okay, here it is" announcement. < 1323850317 746983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, I'm not saying it's anything "official", I'm just saying that getting things into the system, division of work, etc. etc. means that their online store could perfectly well think it's Done(tm) before they actually ratify it. < 1323850624 159464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in all, it's also an indicator that it's probably going to be out soon. Maybe we'll even get a C11 instead of a C12, depending on how they date these things. < 1323850633 995969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ACTION < 1323850634 172157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : – < 1323850634 172366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : Convener < 1323850634 172475 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : forward < 1323850634 172580 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : the < 1323850634 972914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : WP < 1323850636 978775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : as < 1323850638 990327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : revised < 1323850640 969981 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : in < 1323850642 982563 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1323850656 642995 :fizziew!~htkallas@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best paste ever. < 1323850663 331566 :fizziew!~htkallas@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every word on one line. < 1323850688 131889 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323850690 137930 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizziew: Haven't you heard of /flushq, NOOB??? < 1323850706 951840 :fizziew!~htkallas@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you; I was just about to ask about that. < 1323850712 491893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1323850718 117614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323850846 883091 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323850848 747602 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "DONE: ISO/IEC DIS 9899 was submitted to ITTF, and approved with no comments. The DIS will be forwarded to ITTF for final publication per ISO/IEC rules." -- from the WG14 Dec 7th meeting minutes. So I suppose it's coming. < 1323850891 803382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No comments? < 1323850893 505520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How boring. < 1323850916 851465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone wants a C11 and not a C12, mayhaps. < 1323850932 679248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the standard amoutn of time you have to wait before complaining that your bug is being ignored? < 1323850942 473255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I commented 5 days ago and the guy went silent. :( < 1323850951 890552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The silence of shame. < 1323851101 697180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submitted a libpurple patch two months ago, and someone promptly actioned on the item by setting the milestone of the trac ticket to "Patches Needing Review" the very next day. (After that, nothing has happened, but I guess it still counts as a response.) < 1323851278 31881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They're still trying to figure out how to apply it with Monotone. < 1323853830 295553 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323854171 532037 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323854319 360514 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323854417 168707 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1323854424 463876 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still Jafet. < 1323854440 243854 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I'm not. < 1323854458 203944 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a shame. The world needs more Jafets. < 1323854518 724454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION becomes Jafet.
< 1323855259 320859 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And just to check: *(struct foo *)ptr_to_bar = foostruct; is OK, right? < 1323855266 754989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, hmm, it's actually < 1323855272 512227 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(*struct foo**)ptr_to_bar = ptr_to_foo; < 1323855274 421285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1323855276 116958 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(struct foo**)ptr_to_bar = ptr_to_foo; < 1323855278 156975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where bar is like < 1323855285 225094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct bar { struct foo *etc; ... } < 1323855591 358495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... think there was something about all structure pointers having to have the same size and representation. But I think to be on the safe side that should be *ptr_to_bar = (struct bar *)ptr_to_foo; < 1323855763 49988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming a struct foo *ptr_to_foo which actually points to a struct foo inside a struct bar.) < 1323855773 835021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1323855963 397553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, earlier when you had "struct bar { struct foo foo; ... }", even though "struct bar *pb; ... struct foo *pf = (struct foo *)pb;" is legal, it might be slightly more self-documenting to just "struct foo *pf = &pb->foo;" instead. It'd also have the "doesn't need to be first member benefit", except that it doesn't if you're then later casting that struct foo * back to the struct bar *. < 1323856185 44011 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can't do that, though, because there's no one "struct bar". < 1323856189 235474 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ~generic~. :p < 1323856196 266735 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1323856200 558801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1323856293 727235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But I think to be on the safe side that should be *ptr_to_bar = (struct bar *)ptr_to_foo;: < 1323856305 615287 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Assuming a struct foo *ptr_to_foo which actually points to a struct foo inside a struct bar.) < 1323856313 656013 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Um, I think you've misread what I asked./ < 1323856322 705964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct quux { struct argh *etc; ... more members ... } < 1323856328 464490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a struct quux *eh. < 1323856334 270322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a struct argh qqq. < 1323856335 836786 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1323856337 359666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a struct argh *qqq. < 1323856339 382690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do < 1323856349 168414 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(struct argh **)eh = qqq; < 1323856351 378979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that allowed? < 1323856397 121255 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that makes any sense. *(struct argh **)&eh = qqq; might. < 1323856436 714164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not really any different that eh = (struct quux *)qqq; except it's a "reinterpret the pointer" thing instead of a "cast the pointer" thing. < 1323856461 437377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Uh, what? < 1323856479 369145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh, there's a *pointer* at the start. < 1323856482 478028 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a member. < 1323856491 358152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm just asking whether I can assign to the first member of a struct (which is a pointer) by casting it to the type pointer-to-[member]. < 1323856511 636127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, right, right; I kept reading that as struct quux { struct argh etc; ... more members ... } instead. < 1323856576 408728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, given struct quux { struct argh *etc; ... }, you can cast a struct quux * into a struct argh **; it's still a pointer to the first member. < 1323856605 824337 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though with just this little context it's not entirely clear why not just eh->etc = qqq then. < 1323856619 499627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: I can't do that, though, because there's no one "struct bar". < 1323856619 675711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's ~generic~. :p < 1323856633 737014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually a void *eh, that just points to a struct with a (struct argh *)-typed first member. < 1323856640 780535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any struct, rather. < 1323857420 643347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. At least it will work. I'm trying to figure out if DS9K can make it not work, due to involving a void * in there. The standard's wording for the conversion rule is: "A pointer to a structure object, suitably converted, points to its initial member, and vice versa." So it's mostly about whether "struct foo { anytype x; ... }; struct foo f; void *pg = &g; anytype *x = pg;" is "suitably converted". < 1323857488 37732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whether you actually only legally can "struct foo f; anytype *x = (anytype *)&f;" where the compiler knows it's converting from the structure-pointer to the first-member pointer. < 1323857517 313941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ugh. < 1323857537 485095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There can't be any padding at a beginning of a struct, so it's somewhat hard to figure out a way to make it not work. Except maybe by having a really weird 'void *'. < 1323857540 576749 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaa I am mere hours into my Stack Overflow experience and already have 48 reputation and an accepted answer. < 1323857549 555400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must... escape... < 1323857595 188764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. a "void *" format which is a concatenation of two parts, first half used for structure pointers and the second one used for any other object pointers. With that sort of thing it'd go wrong. < 1323857616 915494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Surely that's not legal. < 1323857669 691016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it fulfills the main rule for void *, which is "A pointer to any object type may be converted to a pointer to void and back again; the result shall compare equal to the original pointer." < 1323857735 711335 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :( < 1323857864 678687 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323857874 222531 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323857914 792054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If all structure pointers are alike, you could "struct foo { anytype x; ... }; struct foo f; void *pg = &f; anytype *px = (anytype *)(struct { anytype x; }*)pg;", but that's the most ridiculous thing ever. < 1323857965 25945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Weeeell, yes, but surely there's some sort of in-between condition you can rely on? < 1323858008 719594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : E.g. a "void *" format which is a concatenation of two parts, first half used for structure pointers and the second one used for any other object pointers. With that sort of thing it'd go wrong. < 1323858017 726924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I should probably note that both pointers involved here are to structs. < 1323858077 55497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no, if the first member is a pointer to struct, then pointer-to-the-first-member is a pointer to pointer to struct, which might have a completely different representation than pointer to struct. < 1323858113 66 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1323858125 163199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm changing it to be just an included struct so that everything will work out fine. :p < 1323858130 625281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also less indirection overhead!! < 1323858337 293886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not entirely sure a messed-up void * like that is legal; there's one rule that says "pointer to an object type may be converted to a pointer to a different object type [, and if resulting pointer is "correctly aligned" for the referenced type,] when converted back again, the result shall compare equal to the original pointer." < 1323858363 602409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And void * is a pointer to an (incomplete) object type, and must have no alignment restrictions. < 1323858370 339408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Weeell, it works. :p < 1323858393 121341 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll care more about fixing it if someone comes up with a way to avoid it, or machines that break it actually start existing. < 1323858412 377964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(struct foo *) -> (void *) -> (firstmember *) is notw hat I would call a terribly controversial conversion. < 1323858517 450045 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no. And anyway (struct foo *) -> (char *) -> (firstmember *) is required to work, so it'd take a really perverse (if even legal) implementation to make the version with void * not work. (There may not be padding at start of a structure, and converted char * always points "to the lowest addressed byte of the object".) < 1323858544 891827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you should turn it into a char * though. :p < 1323858563 932712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not what < 1323858570 883390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I should just remove all the data structure and use (char *) instead. < 1323858575 646818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be like Tcl, but it's C, so it'll be FAST. < 1323858600 365471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could then implement "types" with some sort of macros that operate on char *s. < 1323858669 769904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define PLAYER_Y(p) (((p)[2] << 8) | (p)[5]) < 1323858687 559109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That was supposed to be bytes 2 and 3, but it's even better like that.) < 1323858798 919607 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozart indeed sounds like bubblegum.. dunno one of my favourite comp. is musorgsky: powerful. epic drama spending some creeps from time to time.. |ve heard this one before (one of few nice classic themes used as bgmusic in froniert elite II :P i love it --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eILjzkiTSbE&fmt=18 ..gregor knowing that you|re into classic..may i ask which is your favourite one, if there is? < 1323858828 941406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Macros??? < 1323858833 794574 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Uh, THOSE AREN'T STRINGS. < 1323858845 318687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *PLAYER_Y = "(p) -> (((p)[2] << 8) | (p)[5])"; < 1323858910 570596 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: chopin_ < 1323859023 50948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Pachelbel is Gregor's favourite composer. < 1323859055 745349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIGHT GREGOR? < 1323859218 339069 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott:ok thx .. but i|ve made plans to somehow start a conversation with gregor :P all my plans lyin on the ground now < 1323859232 769676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: But I was lying. < 1323859234 794056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still can!!! < 1323859239 946149 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor actually hates Pachelbel. < 1323859262 746540 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe..im joking..half joking < 1323859674 427146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION buys Yet Another Humble Bundle
< 1323860407 95174 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1323862192 263366 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vindum, vindum vef darraðar, þars er vé vaða vígra manna! < 1323862192 439520 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Látum eigi líf hans farask; eigu valkyrjur vals of kosti. < 1323862342 449853 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wind we, wind swiftly < 1323862342 625911 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our warwinning woof. < 1323862342 802193 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sword-bearing rovers < 1323862342 802390 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To banners rush on, < 1323862342 802501 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind, maidens, we spare not < 1323862342 802606 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One life in the fray! < 1323862342 802853 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We corse-choosing sisters < 1323862473 175769 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its from the islandic njal saga.. (used also by wagner in his ride of the valkz < 1323862575 322767 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i definitivly have not read yet.. do you know it? http://omacl.org/Njal/1part.html < 1323862786 971945 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ynuff spam for today..the resonance is outragious <> < 1323863146 248301 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1323864433 503243 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudzD5EAOlo&fmt=18 //cu! < 1323864436 631357 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f059.pool.mediaWays.net PART :#esoteric < 1323864554 788899 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323864560 486452 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Brabenite! < 1323864780 367706 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323870213 315804 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like today's Gunnerkrigg Court < 1323871622 371704 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely random, but elliott, have you seen Puella Magi Madoka Magica? < 1323871645 496408 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely wonder if I asked this before < 1323871720 576202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1323871758 971954 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unrelatedly, tumblr update < 1323871838 983315 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1323873635 300511 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323875459 186045 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323876071 866192 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323876278 47115 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1323876609 797949 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323877436 706882 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323877478 267631 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323877494 567689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-238-230.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323877943 259388 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323877999 697412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear lambdabot/ < 1323877999 940528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1323878010 965990 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323878017 350548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot is frend < 1323878118 278742 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323878169 853361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship bot. < 1323878216 604896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323878233 341261 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :news-ham :( < 1323878262 440057 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god what has happened? < 1323878275 899211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor news-ham < 1323879747 935145 :pumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1323881131 971411 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323881478 801808 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323881497 972182 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323881621 959896 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: You're not here now. < 1323881640 587300 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell hagb4rd My favorite composer is anyone who's asleep at 5:30AM in my timezone. < 1323881640 793358 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1323881685 35735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So... Pachelbel? < 1323881776 347832 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott DAAA DADADAAA DADA DADADADADADADADA DAAA DADADAAA DADA DADADADADADADADA < 1323881776 570381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1323881794 141054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Katamari Damacyyyyyy < 1323881794 354401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1323881819 32575 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... damn, I can't remember the Katamari Damacy song well enough to know if it matches that :P < 1323881823 840665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My running gag is that I pretend every piece of word-music is Katamari Damacy :P < 1323881833 823664 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :P < 1323881836 538608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully word-music is so fucking hopelessly vague that it can never be disproven. < 1323881855 366120 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1323881905 50332 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1323881925 737126 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, < 1323881934 368600 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pachelbel: Katamari Damacy's composer? < 1323881939 328243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sources say YES. < 1323882044 743875 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Aww man, we missed Pachelbel's 358th birthday < 1323882574 447396 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOO < 1323882695 781081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (He'll only stop having birthdays when people stop liking his music.) < 1323882703 411971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Now there's a challenge for you!!!) < 1323883821 113226 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, have you watched the Pachalbel rant. < 1323883832 668841 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... ... ... probably? < 1323883846 645881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's "Pachelbel" you uncultured fuck. < 1323883887 154239 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1323884523 313087 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, to be fair, I don't hate Pachelbel, I hate Pachelbel's Canon. But since that's the only piece people know him by, WHOOPS. < 1323884732 701043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In the future people will complain about that goddamn Gregor's op. 47 that's in every fucking song. < 1323884737 171522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Richards' < 1323884744 500578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually we should use first names. < 1323884755 179329 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1323884761 583154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We could just talk about classical composer Johann and lose no precision of value. < 1323884772 119392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, no precision which is to be valued.) < 1323884914 66815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does -Wall -Wextra miss a ton of shit :( < 1323884918 187866 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, there's J.S. Bach and a few other J.x. Bachs for some value of 'x' name Johann, and there's Johann Strauss Jr (HACK), and ... I can't off the top of my head think of any other Johanns. Johanneses, sure. < 1323884927 695031 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*named Johann < 1323884933 109770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Pachelbel < 1323884938 316948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pachelbel = Bach! < 1323884944 970462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pachelbach. < 1323884949 915311 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PACHELBEL DOES NOT COUNT < 1323885214 862316 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, remind me why you hate Pachelbel's Canon, I recall it being entertaining. < 1323885265 575768 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM < 1323885310 207059 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because I used to play the viola. < 1323885473 98586 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hahahaha < 1323885478 457170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The joke is the viola.) < 1323885494 391865 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, um < 1323885506 392682 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the Pachelbel rant playing at 4x. < 1323885509 257305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOBODY TOLD ME STACK OVERFLOW WAS THIS ADDICTIVE < 1323885517 391290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait that thing's sped up? < 1323885520 802708 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom_Hoover: You guys, I can't have two simultaneous different conversations on two channels >_< < 1323885524 537111 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1323885535 609745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, you meant the player is literally speeding it up. < 1323885538 349304 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Um, so you're inferior? < 1323885548 295137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what how < 1323885552 288670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We could interleave them in this channel if that would be more convenient for you. < 1323885555 320801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT < 1323885556 920516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it, stop < 1323885557 98871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why is the Pachelbel rant playing at 4x. < 1323885569 307327 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PLEASE DO < 1323885571 750073 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but when I watch it it's sped up a lot. < 1323885572 39397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DO I HAVE 193 REPUTATION ALREADY!! WHY!! I AM NOT REPUTABLE! < 1323885589 346253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's _just_ that video < 1323885632 454287 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And _just_ on that page. < 1323885633 884306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAH NO 208 REPUTATION WHY < 1323885638 377367 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe the video is just fast, dude. < 1323885642 934283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's not. < 1323885650 757087 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I watch it through paravonian's channel it's fine. < 1323885759 540061 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1323885765 648762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: waht < 1323885833 508107 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :auuuuuum < 1323887168 32966 :TaneblWii!540d445f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.68.95 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323887178 241777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneblwii < 1323887187 414246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: bieberpunk is way better than clockpunk, btw. < 1323887208 522662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about rockpunk? < 1323887215 791069 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is set on Cardassia, obviously.) < 1323887239 148262 :TaneblWii!540d445f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.68.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1323887255 687297 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Quick! What's faster than a ninja? < 1323887266 595792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ninja on speed! < 1323887275 786896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Quick! What's faster than a ninja that isn't a ninja? < 1323887291 22612 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An ex-ninja on speed! < 1323887322 920177 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Quick! What's faster than a ninja that never was a ninja? < 1323887349 46542 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Superman. < 1323887384 955174 :TaneblWii!540d445f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.68.95 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is awful; I will play table tennis instead < 1323887388 812422 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, I've just seen the word "bieberpunk" < 1323887390 886537 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to kill myself. < 1323887409 573543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise the context was pseudohistorical genres, so I just imagined Justin Bieber doing punk. < 1323887417 217242 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because your premise is a logical contradiction it means that all responses are true. Therefore: I fucked your mom, yo. < 1323887420 439631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION logic
< 1323887424 326211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: < 1323887433 734966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go with photon but I'd have to abbreviate it as ph and I hate you. < 1323887441 823516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes do that. < 1323887450 435336 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm way faster than a ninja anyway.) < 1323887453 101545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooo "ph" sucks to type on QWERTY. < 1323887461 90723 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll call it hoover. < 1323887478 622825 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1323887482 69523 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you even naming. < 1323887487 543820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God. < 1323887501 879034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know what's cool about my awesome typing style? < 1323887502 415636 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love of Jesus Photons < 1323887505 453850 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ph is not awkward to type at all < 1323887515 94807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is truly the name of God. < 1323887518 122606 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They travel through space, spreading the Love of Jesus at just OVER the speed of light ('cuz fuck science, that's why) < 1323887663 966277 :TaneblWii!540d445f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.13.68.95 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1323887758 810286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 ++ 2 < 1323887759 589528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: < 1323887759 898544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : `Data.Monoid.Monoid a' < 1323887760 81272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... < 1323887762 261125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT I AM SHOCK < 1323887792 783583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they make ++ to mappend? < 1323887802 903494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cale did. < 1323887829 259379 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Product 2 ++ Product 3 < 1323887830 768524 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Product {getProduct = 6} < 1323887846 462853 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :most useful instance in Haskell. < 1323887852 432241 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (endo succ ++ endo pred) (++) < 1323887853 285686 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `endo' < 1323887853 485078 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `endo' < 1323887857 543818 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Endo succ ++ Endo pred) (++) < 1323887858 322469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t' < 1323887858 502505 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `Endo a' < 1323887858 678753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: (Endo succ ++ Endo pred) (++) < 1323887864 161343 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t runEndo (Endo succ ++ Endo pred) (++) < 1323887864 941799 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `runEndo' < 1323887866 224948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t unEndo (Endo succ ++ Endo pred) (++) < 1323887866 967157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `unEndo' < 1323887870 612517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t appEndo (Endo succ ++ Endo pred) (++) < 1323887871 399569 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall m. (Enum (m -> m -> m), Monoid m) => m -> m -> m < 1323887884 222085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t appEndo (Endo (+) ++ Endo (-)) < 1323887884 991116 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> a < 1323887885 170321 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Probable cause: `+' is applied to too few arguments < 1323887885 349232 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the first argument of `Endo', namely `(+)' < 1323887887 614507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1323887893 382563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION had a dream that he went to an awesome party and then his car got towed in the morning and so he was homeless in a parking deck with homeless people for a day.
< 1323887898 329586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t appEndo (Endo (1+) ++ Endo (1-)) < 1323887899 112108 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall t. (Num t) => t -> t < 1323887908 320292 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t appEndo (Endo (+1) ++ Endo (subtract 1)) succ < 1323887909 114809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a, Enum a) => a -> a < 1323887911 389379 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best. < 1323887939 288290 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :helo what does endod o < 1323887966 675092 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it makes the monoid of endomorphisms? < 1323888007 75018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Endo < 1323888007 864282 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> Endo a < 1323888015 72829 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323888017 644253 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1323888050 324499 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Endo (+) < 1323888051 165945 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> a < 1323888062 731072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Endo (+1) < 1323888063 534991 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (Data.Monoid.Endo a)) < 1323888063 753231 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use ... < 1323888074 623376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Endo a -> a < 1323888074 953916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Monoid appEndo :: Endo a -> a -> a < 1323888075 241556 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude id :: a -> a < 1323888075 418667 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Function id :: a -> a < 1323888079 732465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1323888194 165591 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ++ is like . then? < 1323888204 39817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with restricted type < 1323888259 549711 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a fast hash for comparing files < 1323888266 1665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the answer is probably just SHA1 < 1323888331 859076 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i-number :P < 1323888341 197872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1323888345 121680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :inode number < 1323888366 918937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1323888371 200147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That won't work < 1323888374 224851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inodes aren't immutable < 1323888374 731611 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that wouldn't -- yes) < 1323888375 216252 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-67-43.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323888375 493921 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-67-43.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1323888375 671044 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1323888382 63410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HA HA GOOD ONE RIGHT? < 1323888386 806834 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, hilarious. < 1323888387 441617 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323888459 704844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I hate people on IRC with those scripts that tell everyone every single detail about the song they're listening to < 1323888470 380579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :including like... the song progress and bitrate. < 1323888477 768521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as though anyone cared. < 1323888493 987711 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate people on IRC with those scripts that tell everyone /any/ detail about the song they're listening to. < 1323888538 279939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP: Shakira -- Hips Don't Lie < 1323888548 104425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is listening to: Pachelbel - Canon in D Major [04:14 / 160 Kbps]
< 1323888553 753907 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323888586 159618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still listening to: Pachelbel - Canon in D Major [04:14 / 160 Kbps]
< 1323888652 404866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googled for: Pachelbel Canon D Minor by Toucans
< 1323888668 772215 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm putting together the source tree for a new project (git) and I'm wondering if you guys know of some projects with a good layout that I could base mine on? < 1323888684 548823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux kernel. < 1323888692 33864 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:) < 1323888704 351592 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: If you don't want to put everything in the root, then src/ and include/ directories? < 1323888708 785823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really depends on the language. < 1323888721 993573 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1323888755 70247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION usually doesn't separate header files and C files, since they're both source files.
< 1323888773 371113 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listening to: C:\MZX\HONOR1\ZIN.MOD "zine 8 music" 02:35/10:42 MOD (Protracker), 4 channels; 119956 bytes; Reverb; Surround; Graphics Equalizer; Loop Song; High quality resampling < 1323888779 785310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcmap just has everything in the root directory which... works. < 1323888795 13542 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how you write a large number of details. < 1323888796 998760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Thank god, now I know it's 119956 bytes! < 1323888807 836307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My quality of life is enhanced immeasurably. < 1323888810 833300 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright thanks < 1323888833 911037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: words has everything in one file. best layout < 1323888839 7033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my IRC bot currently does the same. < 1323888856 307855 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"zine8.mod" in the mod archive < 1323888860 326684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: mcmap would be a very long 4442-line C file. < 1323888875 310572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah rolebot is only 490-ish lines. < 1323888884 753047 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is listening to: The sound of air vents and graduate students breathing.
< 1323888885 679265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also some of that is generated code. < 1323888906 291768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run wc -l bin/words < 1323888913 935433 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc: bin/words: No such file or directory < 1323888924 446590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323888926 648433 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :always forget < 1323888928 349254 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run wc -l bin/word < 1323888930 674015 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :19353 bin/word < 1323888940 14066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much all generated code. :P < 1323888983 140347 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`url bin/word < 1323888985 470544 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/word < 1323888992 135863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you measure productivity in linecount I am an absolute god. :P < 1323888998 426464 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :linecount / hour < 1323888999 527602 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word < 1323889002 480247 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :botumbindins < 1323889006 840998 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems legit. < 1323889045 174915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word 10 < 1323889047 872707 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lum sucte cats das croclacroceess dae athcris fughtni bara zie < 1323889054 290627 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :cats... < 1323889067 942938 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cats das croclacroceess! < 1323889144 495140 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best word to date is schth < 1323889224 378675 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an onomatopoeia < 1323889237 404139 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the sound schth. < 1323889265 895550 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall elliott complaining about a thousand-or-so line C function I had. < 1323889278 693470 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log elliott.*1000.*c.*function < 1323889290 632731 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-01-20.txt:19:01:26: any language but my own";) and used the CAL-1000 to develop the more robust CAL-1001, entirely in English. The CAL-1001, in turn, was used to produce the more capable CAL-1002, again in English, and so forth, all the way up to the fully functional CAL-3037, which we released as a commercial product. It's successor, the CAL-3040, is currently in testing.]]] < 1323889297 360632 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piff < 1323889300 941835 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs elliott.*1000.*c.*function < 1323889307 991374 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12772 < 1323889322 627661 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well < 1323889332 553385 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, he was probably ehird then anyway ... < 1323889356 37213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log .*1000 lines < 1323889364 535250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not if it was cfythe. < 1323889366 226918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the .* is necessary < 1323889367 835487 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-03-17.txt:20:24:09: ais523, so your program must be shorter than 1000 lines? < 1323889395 39249 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives up.
< 1323889398 446134 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION quitter
< 1323889401 26954 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: cfythe has no such functions, it was Plof 3. < 1323889451 105886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Fair enough :P < 1323889575 519656 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :BigIndian < 1323889593 550209 :BigIndian!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :xxBigIndianxx < 1323889633 872261 :xxBigIndianxx!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is experimenting with new names
< 1323889642 13394 :xxBigIndianxx!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake NICK :kallisti < 1323889645 792007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hardcore enough. < 1323889681 547134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-12-14 19:07:49 (841 MB/s) < 1323889682 726232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessss < 1323889699 535951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1323889703 704947 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323889709 589233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: bye < 1323889754 728258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay! See you later! < 1323889781 847494 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ...? < 1323889851 758819 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323889867 143858 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: NOOOO < 1323889875 466107 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ruined my reversed conversation < 1323889878 688751 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I seem to recall elliott complaining about a thousand-or-so line C function I had. <-- generated or hand written? < 1323889888 913416 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1323889908 313101 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i'm on a boat < 1323889910 13747 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal_: Errr, somewhere in between? Very macro-y, but hand-written. < 1323889921 580305 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster NICK :Vorpal < 1323889937 502925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm, was that 1000 lines before or after cpp then? < 1323889944 295797 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before. < 1323889954 360656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, sounds a bit on the large side yes. < 1323889961 446901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what did it do? < 1323889972 906203 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was the main interpreter loop. < 1323889974 555989 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: and, it's going fast and, you've got a nautical themed Pashmina Afghan? < 1323889984 551967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well, that is excusable then. < 1323889994 717042 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is, elliott was just being a jerk :P < 1323890077 94114 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323890103 693711 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ah, not yet. later. < 1323890144 916373 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahah, "1000 or so" < 1323890149 263145 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that 2,151 < 1323890172 519028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323890209 406279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I'm kind of amazed at how much code is in Bot::BasicBot < 1323890222 181232 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll take a while to remove that dependency I think. < 1323890248 701539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I would definitely consider splitting the case statements/blocks-after-label/whatever out into separate files then and generating a file with lots of #includes there < 1323890258 900332 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's what I did. < 1323890274 100863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, good < 1323890289 654197 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :August 2009, "Split up the obscenely-long interpPSL function into separate (#include'd) implementation files.", woooh :P < 1323890294 891833 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, later, I abandoned that codebase! < 1323890296 328433 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wooooh! < 1323890562 364306 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why? < 1323890580 861903 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1323890591 224516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /could/ talk to the current maintainer and see if they would accept some patches. < 1323890599 886091 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Gregor does rewrites periodically. < 1323890601 400005 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1323890607 678823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of basically copypasting most of the code and rewriting parts of it. < 1323890742 70435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323890805 557416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, so ACTION requires ctcp? < 1323890812 6219 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it looks like, based on this code. < 1323890875 848324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, /me (ACTION) is a ctcp < 1323890878 927938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you know? < 1323890902 195701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all. < 1323890907 800841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In C++0x the term "sequence point" is being replaced by the term "an operation A being sequenced before an operation B, or being un-sequenced"" < 1323890910 185400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks that's stupid. :P
< 1323890920 238505 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +.,[.,]+.!ACTION thinks that's what ACTION is. < 1323890920 418556 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks that's what ACTION is.
< 1323890932 939566 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah, [1 byte]ACTION ... [1 byte] is such a complex format < 1323890935 505195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :down with ctcp requiremenst < 1323890939 223531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :requirements < 1323890942 467277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what? Seriously? < 1323890956 277852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Seriously what? < 1323890967 279761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the sequence point thingy < 1323890968 425149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, no, it's not complex. but now it makes me do extra work within this high-level library. :P < 1323890976 931272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That wasn't me. < 1323890983 490240 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Don't let ... whatever the P staffer guy was ... see you do that. < 1323890985 223516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, is it true? < 1323891001 736488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I recall something like that being mentioned. < 1323891004 752617 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how I've caused Vorpal to bother fizzie for no reason. < 1323891015 988030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I misread somehow < 1323891023 300389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I blame that I'm on a phone < 1323891050 775832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's going fast and you've got a telephony-themed pashmina afghan? < 1323891051 636877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so is it true? < 1323891051 963390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub pocoirc { my $self = shift; return $self->{IRCOBJ}; < 1323891056 420174 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1323891058 291214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1323891059 991239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this. < 1323891061 865353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2007/06/04/update-on-the-c-0x-language-standard.aspx < 1323891080 940122 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: pocoirc < 1323891087 236367 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes no arguments. Returns the underlying < 1323891087 413836 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :L object used by < 1323891088 97193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot::BasicBot. < 1323891089 606628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One unintentional side-effect of this feature is that it makes the following well formed: < 1323891089 826780 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1323891090 11020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class < 1323891090 11218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct X { < 1323891090 11325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : void f(Types......); < 1323891090 195882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :}; < 1323891091 475787 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, of course. < 1323891092 150891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1323891094 31170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes – that is six ‘.’ in a row J." < 1323891103 63034 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types..... < 1323891107 988943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1323891137 997240 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this POE thing seems awfully crufty. < 1323891141 729747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what benefits I'm getting. < 1323891147 500902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well that is stupid. Sequence point is a perfectly sensible terminology in the context of an unsafe imperative language standard. < 1323891159 728642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What relevant does unsafeness have < 1323891180 781379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, actually it doesn't, never mind < 1323891254 170118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :POE is a big wad of potential waiting for your kinetic. It's a mirror reflecting your ideas in code. It's the dingdong in shamalamadingdong. It's the hoho in hohoho, and at least one Po in PoCo. It's the freak in fries. It's a floor topping and a dessert wax. It's all these things and more, even Europa, and you may attempt a landing there. < 1323891259 107666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I'm impressed. < 1323891390 241995 :Lisa_!~chatzilla@p5B131810.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323891399 147986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Lisa_ < 1323891401 969122 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisa_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1323891428 361675 :Lisa_!~chatzilla@p5B131810.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1323891453 543411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323891546 85575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :varadic templates seem kind of useless to me, at least unless there is some way to make a for loop generate code for each one or such inside the template definition. < 1323891556 124194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, foreach rather < 1323891597 548038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tuples < 1323891599 417071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing < 1323891601 288639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the examples seem to use MI < 1323891618 972587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also generalised Either (i.e. tagged type-safe union) < 1323891627 633956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but I'm not sure how you would add in the n members for the n types. < 1323891655 430776 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: simple < 1323891657 659827 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: recursion < 1323891662 570226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a 0-argument base-case < 1323891667 854090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1323891670 548636 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1323891674 473439 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 1+ argument case either inherits from the smaller case < 1323891677 13374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or includes it as an element < 1323891694 728847 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately I think my fun code for this is lost < 1323891696 948851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, would you access all the members in the top level when accessing from the outside still? < 1323891706 127555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well you'd wrap it with methods... < 1323891711 238779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1323891719 575690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still this seems kind of awkward < 1323891728 93081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's C++ < 1323891772 722623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait this is object oriented. < 1323891774 265562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also they forgot that a classical C struct basically does the job of a tuple just fine < 1323891777 990546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just override a bunch of methods. < 1323891803 794634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uh < 1323891825 142071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if you think declaring a struct for each damn function that just happens to have more than one return value is practical < 1323891827 893215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're an idiot < 1323891839 593773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure: struct intCharTuple { int firstmember; chat secondmember; } ;) < 1323891844 14227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :char* < 1323891858 853382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better than tuple < 1323891859 709347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, (of course I'm joking) < 1323891887 489077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway you can do an unnamed struct in C. Not sure if that works for return values though < 1323891891 559401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably doesn't < 1323891920 622709 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it does. < 1323891942 130505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you actually store the return value in a local variable then? < 1323891966 613883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could access one by doing foo().bar < 1323891972 410852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you want both bar and quux? < 1323892019 796068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway there is also the traditional C solution: foo(int *retval1, char *retval2) < 1323892033 447721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the traditional terrible solution < 1323892039 604177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1323892091 336567 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :C would be about 0.75x better if it just had tuples < 1323892114 330610 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think (T,T',...) is unambiguous for more than one T in every situation a type can occur in < 1323892116 822104 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(compatible_struct_pointer*)&foo()? < 1323892117 848970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although casting that is a bit ugly < 1323892126 720221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(int, char *) foo(void); < 1323892131 123691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1323892139 299133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, :P < 1323892140 827312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives no obvious syntax for the literals < 1323892146 780140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, would [foo, bar] be ambiguous as a type or literal? < 1323892174 594996 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor, why? Vorpal: Gregor does rewrites periodically. // It's more like I redesign the language from scratch periodically, which requires a rewrite of the whole engine too :P < 1323892183 498496 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof 3 lasted me a long while, I'm hoping Fythe will too. < 1323892196 202620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no plof 4? < 1323892196 393037 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it *would* look something like an entirely valid array index. < 1323892214 989304 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt that it would be ambiguous in contexts where you're doing a type or literal. < 1323892229 421214 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Plof 4 will be written using Fythe, hopefully. < 1323892237 449572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323892243 931767 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fythe is just the low-ish level VM. < 1323892259 457717 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plof 4 is already partially implemented (in Fythe) < 1323892260 622570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323892262 490192 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But very, very partially :P < 1323892264 937575 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't found the time. < 1323892302 497440 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall the main reason for scrapping Plof 3 was that it was hellishly slow. < 1323892328 353440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1323892347 67457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, the language or the implementation? < 1323892350 139152 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1323892356 928691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :both? okay < 1323892371 726069 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a hellishly slow implementation of a language that had a design nearly mandating pretty damned slow implementation. < 1323892383 671032 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Boehm GC. < 1323892397 13791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, surely boehm gc could have been replaced < 1323892403 145750 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1323892417 398938 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Fythe now uses G^5C < 1323892423 681929 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is it ^5?) < 1323892471 972092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323892593 608362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, someone should make a piece of software with the version number in the middle of the name and then get it popular enough to make debian include it. I wonder how they would solve that < 1323892616 259926 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is not above using its own versioning scheme. < 1323892622 982448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the same way they do interacl < 1323892624 825725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal < 1323892669 473603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, lets say that the version number made up most of the name. Like G^5C (not exactly version number, more like complete redesign, I know). You couldn't really call it just GC-5 < 1323892687 12648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be too generic < 1323892699 448289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Debian append their own versions to packages. < 1323892700 464952 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd probably go with GGC-5 < 1323892706 255962 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323892712 845296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They'll just not have an upstream version. < 1323892715 600142 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or they'll reject your package. < 1323892723 77201 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, Debian also has their own package versioning. < 1323892727 846889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1323892742 266658 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian handles a lot of weird policies. < 1323892753 862389 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, packages. < 1323892763 255660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder how they deal with erlang. I have version R14B03 here. < 1323892809 924969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:14.b.3 < 1323892811 457529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1323892892 437387 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reappears.
< 1323892903 25689 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : It was a hellishly slow implementation of a language that had a design nearly mandating pretty damned slow implementation. <--- yup < 1323892908 271483 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : And Fythe now uses G^5C <-- GGGGC < 1323892980 818581 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GGGGGC would be the followup to GGGGC if I need one :P < 1323892990 207158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, not enough G < 1323892997 511099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, but what does GGGGC stand for? < 1323893013 798065 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's G G Garbage Collector < 1323893016 875106 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323893083 366581 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor's Generalpurpose Generational Garbage Collector < 1323893273 255994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *Great < 1323893361 505061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think I'm going to Actually Switch to xmonad in the coming days... < 1323893389 478959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1323893404 687104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Why "why?"? < 1323893430 693882 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why xmonad? < 1323893479 81346 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wmii doesn't gel with me, dwm is too inflexible, awesome involves writing Lua. < 1323893486 707987 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xfce? < 1323893496 200357 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I am currently using. < 1323893502 133502 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with it? < 1323893576 307195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most everything. Window management is even klunkier than GNOME 2 (and that's saying something), window switching with the task bar is awkward because drag-to-rearrange just fails to register most of the time, the menu is even more useless for launching programs than GNOME 2... < 1323893762 474138 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeeze. Firefox has stopped being able to build on 32-bit systems. The linker needs more address space. < 1323893904 34473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323893998 6072 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Chrome hit the same thing previously on Windows. < 1323894090 283015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Tell us about building Chrome! < 1323894162 573951 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Does that answer your qusetion? < 1323894164 274569 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*question < 1323894494 853628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1323894504 184198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah < 1323894525 419320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the one thing that makes the window management almost unusable for me is the fact that scrolling a background window focuses and raises it. < 1323894539 496590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a feature so stupid, only xfwm4 has it. < 1323894621 866959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's very stupid < 1323895090 365372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl package Test; @T = keys %Test::; my ($a,$b,$c); print @T; < 1323895092 818608 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :T < 1323895123 707147 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323895135 758455 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl package Test; @T = keys %Test::; our ($a,$b,$c); print @T; < 1323895136 360367 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :caTb < 1323895167 667555 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl package Test; use base 'Exporter'; @EXPORT = keys %Test::; our ($a,$b,$c); print @T; < 1323895175 777596 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl package Test; use base 'Exporter'; @EXPORT = keys %Test::; our ($a,$b,$c); print @EXPORT; < 1323895176 486288 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabISAisaBEGINEXPORT < 1323895187 502626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl package Test; use base 'Exporter'; @EXPORT = keys %Test::; our ($a,$b,$c); $,=' '; print @EXPORT; < 1323895188 291845 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :c a b ISA isa BEGIN EXPORT < 1323895215 59003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, BEGIN is in the symbol table. that's interesting. < 1323895230 175701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:06:26: 23:53:17: that thing above is probably too simple < 1323895230 368443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:06:28: I think that's fine. < 1323895230 545123 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1323895253 374426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it wouldn't fulfil the Applicative laws. i guess you saw my later adjustment. < 1323895356 822288 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1323895357 22608 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1323895363 82366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323895363 274070 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1323895471 582305 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = 2; $y = *x; print $y < 1323895471 786611 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*main::x < 1323895480 214336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = 2; $y = $*x; print $y < 1323895480 704411 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​$* is no longer supported at /tmp/input.3450 line 1. < 1323895484 308218 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOO < 1323895489 277456 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = 2; $y = *x->{SCALAR}; print $y < 1323895498 908657 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1323895502 633874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = 2; $y = *x{SCALAR}; print $y < 1323895503 273563 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCALAR(0x7f7cb8f56a70) < 1323895770 869301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1323895793 597685 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323896078 648294 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :dynamicfish < 1323896156 311887 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Tell us about building Chrome! // I've never built Chrome, but I can tell you that WebKit has at least ten build systems (fewer than the last time I reported it) < 1323896276 208879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: They have a meta-build-system! I know that much. < 1323896297 664442 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right. < 1323896307 759135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I just submitted a patch to a build system that exists solely because of Chrome, that that meta-build-system (GYP) can generate! < 1323896312 326486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIRCLE OF LIFE < 1323896339 895679 :dynamicfish!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1323897144 113306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl package Test; sub A { print caller;}; A < 1323897144 813833 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test/tmp/input.64541 < 1323897157 834900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1323897164 976851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it'll be a list < 1323897178 766295 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :classtype-typeda < 1323897196 683317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl package Test; sub A { print scalar caller;}; A < 1323897197 417342 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test < 1323897219 268018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl package Test; sub A { local $, = ' '; print caller;}; A < 1323897219 861871 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test /tmp/input.6631 1 < 1323897248 766347 :classtype-typeda!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod NICK :copumpkin < 1323897546 902264 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1323897873 399338 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print $0 < 1323897874 45067 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/input.7617 < 1323898066 105988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : We could just talk about classical composer Johann and lose no precision of value. <-- yeah, after all Bach and Strauss are indistinguishable < 1323898095 806846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who gives a fucking shit about goddamn GERMANS < 1323898103 617103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Albert Einstein < 1323898107 272877 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, Johann Strauss is a hack. < 1323898110 678868 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :He deserves neither of those names. < 1323898111 635005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if jew say so < 1323898127 221468 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Counterpoint: YOU'RE a hack. < 1323898148 845027 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Counter-counterpoint: HACK HACK COUGH SPUTTER < 1323898150 625364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, he's the guy responsible for Blue Danube. < 1323898151 335544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while Bach hacked at counterpoint < 1323898164 591663 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can join you in whole-hearted agreement of hackery. < 1323898221 247996 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also Bach is a better Johann and Richard Strauss is a better Strauss, so he deserves neither name. < 1323898450 709228 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And Johann Strauss goes out and changes his name to Johann Sebastian Bach just to be more pitiful. < 1323898510 461975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I didn't realise the context was pseudohistorical genres, so I just imagined Justin Bieber doing punk. <-- logically it designates a world which lacks our modern technology but has an equally powerful substitute fueled by justin bieber. hth. < 1323898530 474311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not gonna lie, I would read that novel. < 1323898573 473560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at least equally powerful < 1323898574 836772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just imagining a highway with like a thousand cars all constantly going "BABY, BABY, BABY OOH". < 1323898578 752249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO BEAUTIFUL. < 1323898591 817201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that girl genius steampunk is obviously far beyond us < 1323898604 704838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, gaslamp fantasy < 1323898729 179075 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323898816 749973 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-239-100.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1323899011 217510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323899311 715831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print -d < 1323899315 616202 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print -d "lol" < 1323899321 64288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print defined(-d "lol") < 1323899340 760574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print undef . "lol" < 1323899341 300093 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: Use of "undef" without parentheses is ambiguous at /tmp/input.10215 line 1. < 1323899350 614641 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (undef) . "lol" < 1323899501 247840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print undef() . "lol" < 1323899501 782360 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323899887 757463 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323899918 181009 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I copy a PAL VHS to NTSC DVD? < 1323900698 61066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I prefer to make operators look like haskell functions wherever possible. :P < 1323901353 825748 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323901705 90630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heloerjan < 1323901710 521351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Busy being BUSY, are we? < 1323901715 607200 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :helliott < 1323902131 150465 :Lisa_!~chatzilla@p5B131810.dip.t-dialin.net NICK :KingOfKarlsruhe < 1323902139 390906 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: capture as PAL, encode to 720x480? < 1323902152 870150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION found a use for local in perl.
< 1323902224 709506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the module File::chdir creates a special tied scalar called $CWD which works well with local. < 1323902268 422284 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a PAL VCR. < 1323902271 318706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :push @CWD and pop @CWD can be used similarly for pushdir and popdir-like behavior. < 1323902529 641954 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Framerate conversion is hellish. < 1323902642 625659 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323902838 505024 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1323902971 221057 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: mencoder should be able to handle it < 1323903005 900051 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Not really. The mplayer stack's handling of framerates is bloody well moronic. < 1323903039 313363 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it doesn't matter anyways since he can't play the tape < 1323903044 136429 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pushing the thing just to do inverse telecine on clean 24p-in-30i content. < 1323903045 159761 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: looks like you've been doing perl. why? < 1323903099 544208 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there are like 5 different options for doing that < 1323903112 386590 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: IRC bot < 1323903145 80243 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Yes. And? < 1323903175 81418 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and I'm not sure why you're complaining.. usually one or more of them works out fine < 1323903190 837613 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and that's the *limit* of its handling of framerates. < 1323903195 275258 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try doing inverse telecine on something that's only partly telecined sometime. Watch it break hardcore. :) < 1323903224 425950 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And framerate conversion otherwise? Its only conception of that is dropping or doubling frames. < 1323903245 156843 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ffmpeg better? < 1323903261 24010 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not particularly. < 1323903269 505022 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video software sucks. < 1323903291 348526 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had some luck putting inpal dvds and playing them on my ntsc player < 1323903302 87920 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume the player is not doing anything very fancy < 1323903305 527484 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variable framerate video is essentially not handled... < 1323903370 406157 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make the *strange* assumption that 720x480 video is meant to be displayed at 4:3, when it's supposed to be displayed at a pixel aspect ratio of 10:11... < 1323903383 881962 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1323903392 795892 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on mine it stretches it to 853x480 < 1323903427 388578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323903434 774668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1323903440 826228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott ??? < 1323903441 39468 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1323903442 911303 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was full screen < 1323903465 757466 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be 16:9, and 720x480 video shouldn't be displayed at 16:9, either, it should have pixel aspect ratio of 40:33 for wide-screen. < 1323903486 219510 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe your tv is different but mine are either 4x3 or 16x9 < 1323903503 63533 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue is that 720x480 is including the horizontal blanking interval. < 1323903540 57643 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The portion of the signal that is active should be displayed at ~4:3 or ~16:9. < 1323903551 327056 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could do a -vf crop < 1323903571 188650 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because 480i signals are generally coming from analog sources. < 1323903617 854459 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I play these star trek dvd's, I'm pretty sure the entire window is filled with picture info < 1323903641 31981 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seeing the HBI. < 1323903671 259611 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let me grab one nd verify.. I know they're interlaced tho < 1323903681 537961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and they're partially telecined. < 1323903684 566770 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fullscreen < 1323903704 439674 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which mplayer and ffmpeg do the wrong thing on. < 1323903757 455565 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use vlc but it's not too great at deinterlacing < 1323903779 306064 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways: for digitised 480i video, it is *never* the right thing to go "aspect ratio 4:3" or "aspect ratio 16:9". If it's 704x480, this will do the right thing. < 1323903784 913773 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's 720x480, this will be Wrong. < 1323903797 544435 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtly so, but nevertheless Wrong. < 1323903833 50520 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B131810.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243] < 1323903864 204478 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd recommend cropping to 704x480? < 1323903883 765705 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It's impossible to get the crop right in the general case. < 1323903932 512327 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From analog sources, the active picture will be in something *near* 704x480, and the black bars on the side will vary in size... < 1323903956 147660 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about going the other direction? 16x9 to dvd < 1323903992 56745 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you have pristine 16:9 video, and want to encode to DVD? < 1323903996 651533 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like something I recorded on my phone in 720p < 1323904007 525702 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scale to 704x480. < 1323904014 878806 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1323904033 623186 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DVD player will, if outputting NTSC, add the HBI as needed. < 1323904034 657034 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, guess I did some movies wrong in the past :) < 1323904057 389263 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not alone in that... Some official transfers are broken in that way. < 1323904102 382944 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The algorithm that video software (unfortunately) needs to do anymore is if 720x480, check for HBI, if it exists then use the correct pixel aspect ratio, otherwise display as 4:3 or 16:9. < 1323904123 861156 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to find a program that does this. < 1323904155 276492 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even acknowledges that 720x480 video isn't intended to be displayed at 4:3 or 16:9. < 1323904200 253260 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is intended to be displayed at 4x3 or 16x9 < 1323904208 696092 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The active portion of the picture is. < 1323904283 801053 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :720x480 contains non-active portions. < 1323904362 790860 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I see a couple black pixels on the edges of this ds9 dvd but no 8 for sure < 1323904445 493576 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will likely vary throughout the video. < 1323904462 783802 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know what you're talking about btw.. I've used that when programming on the atari 5200.. and 2600 especially :) < 1323904466 389167 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly seeing as some scenes are telecine, some are video, and some are a composite of the two. < 1323904507 548213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD SO MANY NEW THINGS. < 1323904540 917070 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG makes a good stress test of deinterlacing/inverse telecine software, BTW. < 1323904561 246142 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah I noticed .. they seem to have broken interlacing < 1323904587 822622 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it works right you get variable framerate video, with only a bit of oddity from some special effects shots which *should* end up getting just normally deinterlaced. < 1323904603 778636 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it works poorly, you get 30p juddering or 24p strangeness. < 1323904611 208924 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_359 < 1323904611 759194 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yay, frame drop!) < 1323904616 271703 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, a star with water in it. < 1323904646 708519 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323904654 582293 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is it water plasma? < 1323904659 946239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is water plasma a thing? < 1323904708 750807 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; plasmas don't have actual atoms. < 1323904732 567394 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, plasma means ionization, which would fuck up what keeps molecules together, i think < 1323904739 507926 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1323904756 845358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1323904801 483694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, its photosphere is only 2800K. < 1323904811 305296 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are plenty of metals that are *solid* at that temperaute. < 1323904814 354649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*temperature < 1323904860 767912 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1323904863 733923 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1323904867 370012 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1323904870 100018 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dalnet.net. < 1323904897 33546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So disappointed that dalnet isn't a real network. < 1323904897 346159 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it would be more efficient to include the latter in the former - although maybe we don't want that efficiency. < 1323904915 168858 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat < 1323904935 458675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Looking up irc.dalnet.net < 1323904936 282549 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Unknown host. Maybe you misspelled it? < 1323904946 749269 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video is hard. < 1323904965 278421 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dal.net isn't it < 1323904976 503485 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: irssi server list claims it's irc.dal.net < 1323905024 559000 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i wisdom/esoteric s/dalnet/dal/ < 1323905026 837223 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: couldn't open file isdom/esoteric: No such file or directory < 1323905031 566342 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323905039 567776 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -iwisdom/esoteric s/dalnet/dal/ < 1323905042 576119 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: no input files < 1323905054 795731 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf now < 1323905058 968590 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323905070 671149 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i s/dalnet/dal/ wisdom/esoteric < 1323905072 921439 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323905076 591278 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? esoteric < 1323905078 933704 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net. < 1323905146 291803 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323905166 111768 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :PiRSquared17: LIAR, PI R ROUND < 1323905312 868631 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323905736 657886 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo No output. < 1323905738 970926 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323905830 488095 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "#!/bin/sh" >bin/No; chmod +x bin/No < 1323905833 285268 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323905837 643275 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1323905845 483472 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`No output. < 1323905847 772814 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323905851 153325 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1323905897 689979 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`No soup for you! < 1323905899 666309 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323905921 448281 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wtf soup < 1323905923 815800 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :why soup is like wtf < 1323906036 600206 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat bin/wtf < 1323906038 798940 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ echo "why $1 is like wtf" < 1323906055 782494 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1323906057 961503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323906720 463994 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323906785 785507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = "hi" *x = undef; print $x; < 1323906786 354062 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operator or semicolon missing before *x at /tmp/input.25244 line 1. < 1323906792 342222 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = "hi"; *x = undef; print $x; < 1323906792 993573 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323906927 974589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = "hi"; undef *x; print $x; < 1323906957 680358 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl $x = "hi"; $y = \*x; undef *$y; print $x; < 1323907695 243595 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl %h = (1,2); print ref \($h{1}) < 1323907695 760707 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCALAR < 1323907724 553958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test { 1 } %h = (1,\test); print ref \($h{1}) < 1323907725 175164 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :REF < 1323907803 658388 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test { 1 } %h = (1,\test); undef ${\$h{1}}; print $h{1} < 1323907809 104949 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew. sanity. < 1323907885 654210 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl voodoo is tiring. :P < 1323907945 894551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, I'm using a nested loop. I better rewrite it with gotos and labels. < 1323909282 435700 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: clearly you mean comefroms. hth. < 1323909491 962838 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323910514 830171 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @a = (1,2,3,4); $b = \@a; @c = @$b; $d = \($c[$#c]); $$d = 3; print @$b < 1323910515 441431 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234 < 1323910527 292768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :tricky. tricky. < 1323912032 583120 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When a DVD is recording and a VHS is playing at the same time, without using the copying feature, the on-screen display is different and component video out doesn't work and a few other differences. < 1323912085 945241 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also supports recording on VHS and play DVD at the same time, and recording on VHS or DVD and playing a file on SD card or USB. But you cannot record on two drives at the same time.) < 1323913027 403574 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 8 million km/h -> c < 1323913038 436544 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conformance error \ Left side is: 1.2073523605465162560e+43 m^-1 s kg^-1 (unknown unit type) \ Right side is: 299792458 m s^-1 (velocity) \ Suggestion: multiply left side by energy \ \ For help, type: units[energy] \ to list known units with these dimensions. < 1323913085 894232 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 8000000 km/h -> c < 1323913094 920380 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conformance error \ Left side is: 1.2073523605465162560e+43 m^-1 s kg^-1 (unknown unit type) \ Right side is: 299792458 m s^-1 (velocity) \ Suggestion: multiply left side by energy \ \ For help, type: units[energy] \ to list known units with these dimensions. < 1323913108 259948 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 8 million km/hr -> c < 1323913117 541770 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :10000000/1349066061 (approx. 0.007412535448847823) < 1323913130 614301 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk tsk < 1323913375 78674 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my brother is setting up lounge room as entertainment area.. my only fear is he will abscond with things from my room. < 1323913380 556788 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill keep you posted :-D < 1323913905 492983 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Then lock your room. < 1323913926 331245 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, thats the problem. < 1323913946 229439 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am such a person that can't say no to anyone who is prepared to use intimidation < 1323913961 43844 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :intimidation? < 1323913977 314766 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you extrapolate this idea sufficiently into all areas of my life, you will realize why i live in my moms basement without any friends or lovers or money :D < 1323913992 723873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not all that bad < 1323914041 611538 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens when your mother dies? or will you be dead too by then < 1323914055 776888 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure :D < 1323914062 27026 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :excitement < 1323914065 847028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adventure < 1323914103 235510 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will then become like me and live in a small shared apartment without any friends or lovers or money. < 1323914108 18427 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when my mom dies my brother says "all those times i said we could share the house i was lying. now we will see if you were bluffing when you said you don't even care" < 1323914136 940160 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323914160 746057 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, life ain't so hard once people stop leeching off you < 1323914173 544112 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the leeches themselves which represent the problems < 1323914188 141162 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they take many forms < 1323914248 306579 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was a lot younger, i figured out how my life would work out when if i poured a glass of cordial my brother would take it < 1323914260 304941 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so, i learned, if i want a glass i need to pour one for everyone < 1323914287 13233 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it is all simply peoples way of responding automatically to someone who doesn't say no < 1323914353 972808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a bit like taking phrases like "sharing is caring" and just distorting them sufficiently that you can turn a profit < 1323914488 612151 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i don't think i have anything in my room that he needs < 1323914795 641695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's not so bad is it? < 1323914847 533072 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's important to note for anyone reading my little monologue that i actually react like this towards most people, and it's not that i single my brother out < 1323915125 304659 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: YOU BETTER FIX YOUR PERSONALITY FLAWS OR I WILL BAN YOU < 1323915132 823539 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles innocently
< 1323915335 701390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to argue inspite of his anger which he tended to take out on the plaster walls, by being a smartass which was perhaps not so wise < 1323915356 291161 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until one time he throw a stick at my head and i got the message then < 1323915380 6940 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i think the general advice for people living with psychopats is "get the HELL out of there" < 1323915506 852350 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i just make him seem like a psychopath due to my own refusal to actually say no to anyone about anything < 1323915883 845878 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no no it seems i am missing the point.. he may well be.. i would be lying if i didn't suspect him of it < 1323916007 443503 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm getting this intuitive warning feeling which says to stop my own speculation - only you can know. < 1323916098 471037 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i know how easy "get the hell out" sounds.. but it is the advice which would never be taken < 1323916847 599962 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1323918123 647320 :Rachel88!~prophaze@59.93.41.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323918175 79587 :Rachel88!~prophaze@59.93.41.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Facebook Traffic Generation Secrets Revealed , http://fb.weightdeals.com/ < 1323918190 301130 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Banning secrets revealed? < 1323918197 409231 :Rachel88!~prophaze@59.93.41.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed lol < 1323918208 812722 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan > 1323918209 4850 NAMES :#esoteric < 1323918213 6584 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no KICK #esoteric Rachel88 :Rachel88 < 1323918224 539171 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1323918231 722589 :Rachel88!~prophaze@59.93.41.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323918235 785884 :Rachel88!~prophaze@59.93.41.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1323918240 339173 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :*!*prophaze@59.93.41.* > 1323918240 378875 NAMES :#esoteric < 1323918240 515765 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no KICK #esoteric Rachel88 :Rachel88 < 1323918242 266141 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That was not a ban, that was a kick. < 1323918244 180742 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better. < 1323918252 543736 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi autocompleted to the wrong command < 1323918256 380948 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1323918258 782885 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan > 1323918258 807101 NAMES :#esoteric < 1323918259 375418 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kick instead of kickban? < 1323918262 428421 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323918323 40394 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bizarre that it came back ... was there a human attached to that spam??? < 1323918342 355967 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we care? < 1323918360 736789 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but that doesn't mean you can't consider it a curiosity :P < 1323918870 584324 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dude did I miss something? < 1323918886 478415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahahahaha < 1323918943 454959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the pleas for reconsideration must be the most rewarding aspect of IRC operating. < 1323919001 138894 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pleas? < 1323919002 709889 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. what the < 1323919022 841613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:03 < Rachel88> wait < 1323919050 350669 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't see that < 1323919072 566463 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the most exciting thing to happen in #esoteric all day? :-D < 1323919077 60409 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323919088 859922 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ s/day?/day < 1323919094 76953 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1323919132 238851 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: probably < 1323919134 461052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I've changed so many things there's no way this is going to work first try. < 1323919954 873474 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I love that feeling < 1323920269 999481 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :{{stub}} < 1323920299 582513 :{{stub}}!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1323920442 543572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION completely gutted his IRC bot and put in a plugin system.
< 1323920547 226515 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you just need slow and buggy implementations of half of common lisp and sendmail. < 1323920613 635493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuugh why does perl require modules to return a true value < 1323920627 277215 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it knows you're not lying, duh < 1323920674 216709 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, oerjan update < 1323920688 472350 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I need to ping two people, don't I?) < 1323920766 2939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in Perl is it customary to end a file with a 1; < 1323922135 200237 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I don't know; maybe just in case you sometimes need it to check something instead of always success < 1323922201 978236 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well yes that's the purpose. < 1323922769 803759 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1323924263 473564 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is "usefulness of uselessness"? < 1323924338 681933 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :Picommand < 1323924428 995077 :Picommand!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :Pi_Quadrant < 1323924558 726574 :Pi_Quadrant!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1323924728 778971 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1323924761 18956 :PiRSquared17!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: Bye! ... < 1323925167 308031 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323925545 431473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION loves making things unecessarily flexible.
< 1323926885 399753 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that's what exceptions are for. < 1323929542 545187 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: You are now graced with my absence. < 1323931277 804274 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://beust.com/weblog/2010/07/28/why-scalas-option-and-haskells-maybe-types-wont-save-you-from-null/ < 1323931286 329657 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This person is an idiot, but does he work on other stuff? < 1323931380 766955 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TestNG < 1323931479 351915 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :he writes about a lot of stuff < 1323931483 33008 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people think he's an idiot < 1323931491 365707 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really mind him much, if I don't pay too much attention to what he says < 1323931767 567379 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323931787 176270 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: That's not how you deal with people on the Internet who don't agree with you on everything. < 1323931796 70695 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323931828 453108 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is glad to have explained the matter.
< 1323932032 20834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I find that hash tables allowing null values are rare to the point where this limitation has never bothered me in fifteen years of Java." < 1323932035 443066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :........... < 1323932076 877944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"See what’s going on here? You avoid a NullPointerException by… testing against null, except that it's called None. What have we gained, exactly?" < 1323932090 219453 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile-time error vs. runtime error (er, well... in Haskell, I don't know anything about Scala) < 1323932126 367392 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can still get the equivalent of a NullPointerException by doing fromJust < 1323932140 338 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you use fromJust without any sort of checking, you're a moron. < 1323932158 450967 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the whole point of Option to... statically type for null types? < 1323932161 716512 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other good things to do: unsafeCoerce, unsafePerformIO, kill yourself < 1323932207 969928 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there valid uses of fromJust? < 1323932216 539028 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323932226 518459 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also valid uses of unsafeCoerce, unsafePerformIO < 1323932231 266657 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think I've seen a recommendation that even in those cases, better to use a case where the Nothing case points to an error "Blah blah blah" < 1323932252 413666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's generally safe to use fromJust if you know for certain that Nothing is impossible. < 1323932269 66591 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Please don't use fromJust even if you know for certain that Nothing is impossible. < 1323932282 498020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens so infrequently that I don't have to! < 1323932286 301841 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1323932290 409187 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even when it happens, don't use fromJust. < 1323932298 66812 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use let Just x = ..., or something. < 1323932304 615593 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the reason: because I may be stupid? < 1323932314 734910 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromjust is nice in ghci and friends at the very least < 1323932318 431282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with fromJust? < 1323932323 993077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to pattern matching? < 1323932324 671990 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is: If it turns out to be Nothing, the error message will be completely unhelpful. < 1323932334 120160 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromJust Nothing < 1323932334 827145 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Maybe.fromJust: Nothing < 1323932350 964418 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas if you do let Just x =, or fromMaybe (error "something useful"), the error message will tell you something. < 1323932354 5714 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's runtime errors could certainly use an improvement < 1323932360 341278 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember that you don't really get stack traces in Haskell. < 1323932369 651368 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let Just x = Nothing < 1323932370 338276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : not an expression: `let Just x = Nothing' < 1323932372 851796 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a line number would be nice < 1323932378 258913 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323932379 778231 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let Just x = Nothing in 5 < 1323932380 457820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1323932380 854661 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let Just x = Nothing in x < 1323932381 605102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: :3:4-19: Irrefutable pattern failed for pattern Da... < 1323932385 742995 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right haha laziness wow < 1323932394 930507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: haha < 1323932396 395670 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fromJust is OK, although usually it should not be used. < 1323932397 468811 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That's why you use let! < 1323932411 428355 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving you a line number would be equivalent to giving you a stack trace, more or less. < 1323932422 638565 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you mean that you want the line number of the line that fromJust is defined in. < 1323932439 754191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1323932487 868513 :shachaf!~shachaf@204.109.63.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if you know that it's never Nothing, just don't use a Maybe. < 1323932604 834965 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a hypothetical scenario. Perhaps a function that could result in Nothing doesn't when given a certain input. < 1323932613 113544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it's common as it's probably not. < 1323932734 309850 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's given a certain input, and you know the output, you don't need to call the function < 1323932735 51990 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1323932772 197091 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1323932798 699496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: uh... I didn't say I know the output < 1323932802 434117 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that I know it's not a Nothing < 1323932821 87248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes pattern matching gives better errors, that's true. < 1323932990 803804 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323933431 94796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1323933663 990567 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use File::Spec < 1323933670 798953 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use File::Spec; print %INC; < 1323933671 390505 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :warnings.pm/usr/share/perl/5.10/warnings.pmwarnings/register.pm/usr/share/perl/5.10/warnings/register.pmFile/Spec.pm/usr/share/perl/5.10/File/Spec.pmFile/Spec/Unix.pm/usr/share/perl/5.10/File/Spec/Unix.pmvars.pm/usr/share/perl/5.10/vars.pmstrict.pm/usr/share/perl/5.10/strict.pm < 1323933723 306678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use File::Spec; $INC{"/usr/share/perl/5.10/File/Spec/Unix.pm"} = undef; < 1323933727 452740 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1323933864 452190 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print keys %INC < 1323933876 963677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use File::Spec; print keys %INC < 1323933877 625561 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :warnings.pmwarnings/register.pmFile/Spec.pmFile/Spec/Unix.pmvars.pmstrict.pm < 1323933887 559394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323934036 644755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just sent one of those... what do you call it... a facsimile, or "fux" for short. How... 1980s? < 1323934049 82701 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hey! I've done that before! < 1323934059 6492 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently in fact. < 1323934116 328171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had my signature on it. It's crazy how that's seen as somehow reliable and tamper-proof and whatever, but an email with a scanned bitmap is obviously completely untrustworthy. (Let alone an email with just a digital signature.) < 1323934302 143001 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a package of four monad transformers: FinderT, InbindT, ReadthisT, WithoutT. < 1323934393 325857 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReadthisT? < 1323934405 706460 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, what are any of them? < 1323934420 342853 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReadmeT, a monad transformer to force people to read your READMEs < 1323934441 981248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReadthisT allows a monad to access itself except for the return values. < 1323934553 751373 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype ReadthisT f x = ReadthisT { runReadthisT :: f () -> f x }; < 1323934631 374264 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do you know what it means? < 1323934682 761669 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1323934689 128098 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1323934974 826065 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :readself x = x >>= ($ (() <$ x)) . runReadthisT; < 1323934984 6143 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :readfunc = ReadthisT . (pure .); < 1323935099 376214 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :readfunc fst :: ReadthisT ((,) String) String; (using (,) monad from Data.Monoid.Plus) Now you read the so far accumulated string < 1323935149 554249 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now can you understand it better? < 1323935240 395359 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323935372 986737 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, update < 1323935739 399340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323936097 265854 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323936122 507897 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323938108 276409 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323938803 58769 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1323938842 584767 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You want to fuck with a mathematician? Just begin a sentence with, "Let ϵ → ∞." < 1323938848 302310 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wince* < 1323938876 97258 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The limit as ϵ → ∞ ? < 1323939179 293533 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323939243 447237 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323939549 874449 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't see those characters :( < 1323939869 851079 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsilon, rightarrow, and infinity < 1323939899 650030 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I don't know if that's an epsilon < 1323939911 573788 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably is < 1323939921 913398 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because epsilon is usually not used like that < 1323939927 572767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's big epsilon and not small? < 1323939935 351129 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks more like backwards "in set" thingy < 1323939935 529205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. I suck at greek. < 1323939956 808814 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, not backwards < 1323939967 250706 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like the in-set thingy < 1323939975 594156 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, this thing claims to have "unicode support", should i be seeing those? < 1323939983 953507 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323939986 987145 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1323939995 720703 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kvirc < 1323940078 811530 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 4.0.4 and 3.2.6 apparently already had unicode support < 1323940101 394270 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check the font < 1323940183 496680 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfd < 1323940189 64909 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hnnnngh < 1323940202 309431 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be awesome to have an OS that you could ask to do things. < 1323940223 678698 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would ask questions to clarify information until it was specific enough that it would confirm if you want to do something < 1323940241 489393 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fonts do you use < 1323940244 259291 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had consolas < 1323940257 467855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines typing something like "get more fonts" and then it responds with "would you like to install such and such font pack?"
< 1323940275 256579 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not monospace, please just say "i don't use a font, i'm a stupid" < 1323940282 727090 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on < 1323940306 276170 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it turns out, it is monospace. < 1323940313 479127 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally Monospace < 1323940316 59349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you think monospace fonts are appropriate for all situations? < 1323940317 747734 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323940321 363210 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes < 1323940332 833907 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how Monospace is a font, but it is < 1323940347 522897 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it is codeword for "System default monospace font" < 1323940359 994463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's U+03F5 GREEK LUNATE EPSILON SYMBOL, aka 'straight epsilon'; as opposed to something like U+03B5 GREEK SMALL LETTER EPSILON. (TeXwise, it's \epsilon and not \varepsilon.) < 1323940375 915078 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1323940389 317890 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so okay just the usual epsilon < 1323940393 348900 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the Greeks would think of our use of their alphabet < 1323940401 982456 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my colleague is greek < 1323940406 772974 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "asshole" < 1323940408 960993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They would say STOP STEALING OUR LETTERS YOU BASTURDS. < 1323940409 318494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1323940410 838432 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*assholes < 1323940418 983823 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, precisely. < 1323940438 170294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd be all "soon we can't write at all because you've stolen all our letters". < 1323940463 717203 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of their small epsilons will expand into nothingness. < 1323940468 476208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they write. < 1323940472 884931 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :he uses them exactly like everyone else, except that he doesn't make a clear distinction between m and � for instance and just pronounces each as em or mu at random < 1323940490 789311 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like i don't differentiate between M, m and others in speech < 1323940539 773789 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :µ2 < 1323940543 886329 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, I had to) < 1323940557 760471 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ahahahahahahahaihswerjwerjwejr < 1323940560 981174 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write < 1323940564 394096 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a webcomic bro < 1323940569 981894 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that < 1323940577 561361 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323940589 825245 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nothing, don't mistake my fake laughter for laughter at something interesting. < 1323940600 783836 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, mu 2 < 1323940634 934397 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that i realized < 1323940639 862700 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :still don't know what the joke is < 1323940656 957142 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a pokemon called Mewtwo < 1323940694 24218 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, true, it means something. < 1323940699 385434 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :good one bro < 1323940707 333790 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1323940765 170565 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :was �2 the one that looked like random pixels in that one pokemon version < 1323940786 694962 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's Missingno < 1323940791 84544 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :o. < 1323940836 588758 :TeruFSX!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323940837 549381 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it might be Missingno. < 1323940879 125420 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it is < 1323941012 361132 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that none of this should be taken to imply that I know much about Pokemon. < 1323941168 515073 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323942527 838713 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome cswords < 1323942534 265268 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?welcome cswords < 1323942535 926937 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1323942536 822594 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?welcome: not found < 1323942559 460181 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1323942608 894903 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no idea if you're a regular or not < 1323942639 990513 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, new here. < 1323942651 919001 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grad student in PL, looking for some neat hangouts. < 1323942734 405734 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1323942765 394369 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, sometimes people come in who are looking for weird spiritual stuff, "esoterica" I guess. That's not what this is about. PL stuff is what this is about < 1323942783 291067 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, just wanted to be sure. And welcome! < 1323942818 702271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there a chanserv-driven automagical welcome message anyhow? Or does that sort of thing still exist? < 1323942833 804743 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thanks for the welcome! It seems liek ti'll be a good time. < 1323942848 665986 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1323942855 21785 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does lambdabot break if you feed it little omega? < 1323942878 954073 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1323942884 337113 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot is a Haskell bot < 1323942889 37820 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1323942902 625345 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. I'm not sure what you mean by little omega >.> < 1323942907 910376 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot, ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)) < 1323942911 924485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got an evaluation time limit. < 1323942914 47872 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1323942920 440345 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones I've seen don't. < 1323942926 167763 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they hit that and die. < 1323942950 227068 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x) < 1323942951 158950 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = t -> t1 < 1323942972 404645 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323942974 66801 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1323942974 454558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one long-running thing: < 1323942975 703169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix id < 1323942979 446896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1323942990 829684 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know much Haskell... yet.
< 1323943000 540701 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix < 1323943001 271838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (a -> a) -> a < 1323943002 248571 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t id < 1323943003 101017 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. a -> a < 1323943088 909832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, there's a department christmas lunch thing-thing now. -> < 1323943104 911251 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go to sleep soon < 1323943645 918570 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1323943699 293753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1323943699 471961 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1323943707 903321 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another topical bot. < 1323943722 678084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Forgot to advertise it for a moment there.) < 1323943753 485350 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What do you have to say for yourself? < 1323943753 723547 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fnord juhannusn fnord fnord < 1323943769 456717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Nice first impression there, dude. < 1323943769 971609 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i didn't know that. thanks catfive :) i need dynamic class support ( dynamic fnord of c modules", which means that i have < 1323944127 30397 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1323944203 120000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night at noon. < 1323946936 806390 :op_4!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323946992 557981 :op_4!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1323947695 485510 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323952004 339705 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1323956257 209687 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1323957066 563526 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1323957234 338135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323957234 554086 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1323957240 498700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: hi < 1323957254 490056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor said 20h 57m 45s ago: DAAA DADADAAA DADA DADADADADADADADA DAAA DADADAAA DADA DADADADADADADADA < 1323957254 671590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan said 17h 11m 25s ago: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1323957261 605389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a beautiful collaboration. < 1323957776 762867 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323957920 773165 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1323958271 284689 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A908.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323958308 219016 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-27.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1323959134 996613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd < 1323959201 171988 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-227-55.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323959210 977880 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-233-197.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323959320 661651 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323959324 671996 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, try 2 < 1323959365 931830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323959444 392733 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323960310 44754 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323960370 36699 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323961527 117680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I am being sucked into the vortex < 1323961544 181849 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How big a vortex? < 1323961575 275632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The biggest < 1323961576 16820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vortex < 1323961587 350161 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no < 1323962116 394917 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1323962344 595678 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323964009 901219 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod JOIN :#esoteric < 1323964401 199132 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323964420 542513 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it actually possible to write a brainhype interpreter? < 1323964704 85741 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1323964711 991131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming brainhype is what I recall it being. < 1323964738 657582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This language is "super-Turing-complete" because it solves the halting problem for Turing machines." < 1323964746 605994 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, unimplementable, assuming the Church-Turing thesis is true. < 1323964754 992028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That means no. :p) < 1323964785 568713 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it says "you can write a Brainhype interpreter in Scheme-omega." < 1323964817 306172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nullbytes: Yes, but you can't write a Scheme-omega interpreter, either. < 1323964841 151975 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, OK, you can write an interpreter, just not an interpreter in anything you can run :) < 1323964847 379217 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( the wiki page doesnt make that part clear < 1323964860 989229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The linked page does. Well, assuming you're familiar with the halting problem. < 1323964877 93385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically you can't run any Turing-complete languages either because computers have finite memory. < 1323964887 328522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's easier to fake that than it is to fake a solution to the halting problem :P < 1323964919 800440 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cant the halting problem be solved for programs with very limited memory? < 1323964934 660259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Turing machine can solve the halting problem for finite state machines, yes. < 1323964943 143751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However brainfuck is Turing-complete, not a finite state automaton. < 1323964952 555194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And brainhype is brainfuck + extras. < 1323965017 24058 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if at every instruction you record the instruction and everything in memory. If this ever repeats or you run out of memory, theres an infinite loop < 1323965052 4260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nullbytes: That works for finite state machines. < 1323965060 2071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing machines have infinite loops with non-repeating states. < 1323965070 996886 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[>+] -- this brainfuck program runs forever, but never repeats state. < 1323965096 562391 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The original brainfuck interpreter only had some 30k cells, but the conventional version and the one brainhype is based on has infinite memory.) < 1323965099 973538 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well couldnt you limit the available memory and call every combination of bits a state? < 1323965170 98640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you limit the available memory, then it's no longer Turing complete, and it's no longer brainfuck. < 1323965181 183953 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thank you < 1323965184 691917 :nullbytes!187d6264@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.125.98.100 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1323965199 295936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I broke him. < 1323965215 751235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Do you know the HORROR of the halting problem? < 1323965797 889186 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I do not < 1323965807 794295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: WEEP, MORTAL!!! < 1323965813 804349 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEEP IN HORROR < 1323965847 104926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323965950 801431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1323965957 137861 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just tried to prove the halting problem a couple of times < 1323965961 595712 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1323965962 315448 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :disprove < 1323965964 484360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :prove it possible < 1323965965 140247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to solve < 1323965965 777405 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1323965990 11301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323965990 214388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1323965999 188284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were trying to write a general halt-detector? < 1323966018 996890 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no not _me_ < 1323966022 823230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you-plural < 1323966032 86273 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2011-12-15#155321 :p < 1323966034 775087 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very hard < 1323966036 239181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so it lasted all of ~30 lines < 1323966045 528853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be very surprised if the halting theorem turned out to be incorrect; its proof is pretty simple and it's stood up for years < 1323966079 892026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it'd make all those pesky problems about countable sets decidable! < 1323966128 950036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should figure out exactly how much you can solve with a halting oracle; I'm pretty sure you can nest it to solve some statements about uncountable sets, but I don't think it can do everything. < 1323966148 219481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably somebody already has. < 1323966185 896022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, security update in bzip2 < 1323966197 66909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a little surprising < 1323966211 354026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(temporary file related) < 1323966218 304059 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It zipped too far. < 1323966221 234302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, vague arrgh at gksudo stealing focus < 1323966225 259879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was threatening the very integrity of the universe. < 1323966226 577153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, I can see why it /does/ < 1323966232 81582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, gksudo really really should steal focus < 1323966241 630618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it stealing focus and the user not expecting it is annoying, the other way round is insecure) < 1323966255 950117 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: technically, it should steal focus and then not focus the password field < 1323966275 732608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a malicious program could time a gksudo to start right before you enter your email password or whatever < 1323966277 403332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, beautiful < 1323966280 610209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hope that it's the same as your system password < 1323966299 185370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gksudo takes a while to start, it'd have to time it quite accurately < 1323966320 551070 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also very noticeable, so I doubt it's a very plausible exlpoit :P < 1323966348 647389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, not focusing the password field doesn't solve that < 1323966355 695972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case your email password field is in the centre of the screen < 1323966367 344392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should steal focus, freeze for a second or two, and then focus the password field < 1323966370 167588 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that sounds annoying < 1323966376 934879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet openbsd gksudo does that < 1323966400 835216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and randomize how long it freezes for < 1323966436 731100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a cryptosure randomizer < 1323966443 621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, this means that optimising gksudo could cause a security exploit < 1323966448 810259 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to making that attack more practical < 1323966461 793014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*security hole < 1323966498 422371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaargh, why is this so addictive < 1323966510 637241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is what so addictive? < 1323966544 688520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack Overflow; I joined yesterday to ask a git question and have somehow amassed 313 reputation since < 1323966623 443464 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are good at answering other people's questions. < 1323966629 636327 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider making a talk show < 1323966632 396965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1323966632 977158 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only answered 4! < 1323966643 241140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually went and uninstalled Dungeons of Dredmor, then deleted the .deb < 1323966653 282588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can redownload it, but that requires effort and an Internet connection < 1323966658 270989 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you do that? < 1323966691 418202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's addictive in an MMO sort of way < 1323966698 310334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I noticed < 1323966709 240677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323966716 846798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after being awake for 23 hours continuously, almost all of which were playing games < 1323966729 40355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, how does scapegoat handle http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8500282/git-merging-changes-after-branching-before-a-revert? < 1323966731 781562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is basically a single-player MMO in terms of game design… < 1323966745 364910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say "hopefully better than git", but I don't blame git for handling a really, really stupid user imperfectly < 1323966768 621514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pull everything but the revert; if it can't automatically be resolved, you get a conflict < 1323966781 691385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, you're not allowed to answer based on the url < 1323966784 72415 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more complex than that < 1323966787 407530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm reading the page < 1323966791 918421 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :P < 1323966810 759218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wouldn't future merges pull in the revert too? < 1323966814 481155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's an example of my "simplest thing git can't do" example < 1323966829 565376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's part of master but not restructure, and ergo should be pulled in < 1323966835 79304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, you have to pull in all changes explicitly or implicitly; you can choose to not pull a dependency and then you get a conflict < 1323966838 25590 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, git can definitely do what you said < 1323966850 176143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you define tip as "all changes in master except change X" < 1323966853 516002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even did that, with git cherry-pick < 1323966856 928019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, even darcs can do that < 1323966879 718185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it just refuses to merge, rather than giving a conflict, if you leave out a dependency < 1323966894 40865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you asked that question? < 1323966901 41397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323966907 688058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that surprising? < 1323966926 545905 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yeah, I tried this before, and it does bring the right changes over to restructure, but after trying to merge things back into master (just locally, to check that the cherry-picking hadn't broken anything), everything seemed to fall apart even more than previously." -- simplest thing git can't do < 1323966933 616591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, in a way < 1323966944 673434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely forgot you weren't Adeon < 1323966960 502071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it didn't fall apart due to the cherry-picks, IIRC, but I don't remember exactly < 1323966962 192979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who's Adeon? < 1323966972 614852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the best NetHack realtime speedrunner in the world < 1323966982 784548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that sounds... relevant? < 1323967013 746352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we once figured out it was him who got a record because he was insufficiently annoyed when the fact that his record had been broken by someone anonymous came to light < 1323967033 279079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323967038 543766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not seeing the relevance, mind you < 1323967058 944306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's the way you were talking about the author < 1323967070 394675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323967079 846425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call someone /else/ who asked that really, really stupid < 1323967100 598616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's reserved for, umm, I can't think of anything VCS-related you could do to earn that title < 1323967127 708635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I assumed "I joined yesterday to ask a git question" made it obvious :P < 1323967251 710931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323967259 796988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably switch to xmonad today, or I never will < 1323967367 824540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why today in particular? < 1323967407 960974 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tomorrow they remove the letter "m" from the alphabet < 1323967416 232094 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because I decided to yesterday < 1323967657 85725 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323967659 931783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (that makes sense, right?) < 1323967665 497113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, in a way < 1323967676 20505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no if you've ever decided to use xmonad in the past and not acted on it, though < 1323967692 77071 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, howso? < 1323967700 929438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Montclair State University has just sued Oracle for extortion < 1323967733 345123 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a university large enough to successfully sue Oracle, I wonder? < 1323967898 120845 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1323967925 984370 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs < 1323968117 409676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's that meant to do? < 1323968124 810152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it does do < 1323968140 428481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing visible in channel, at least < 1323968146 834568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do anything via PM/PN/DCC? < 1323968153 594879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323968277 182656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The people in #haskell channel kept tolding me things that don't go." --zzo38, in these logs i'm gepping < 1323968278 667900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :grepping < 1323968300 904598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tolding" sounds like a time travel verb < 1323968424 779196 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Toading" sounds like a sexual perversion in the Mushroom Kingdom. < 1323968437 154601 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unabomber should destroy both oracle and montclair < 1323968438 677201 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323968463 260474 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh, somebody in Indiana. < 1323968473 346689 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what they say about people in Indiana! Not much actually. < 1323968501 246699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, it seems that And Yet It Moves actually has an achievement called Gregor < 1323968522 131443 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Gregor is the greatest of all achievements. Many hope to achieve Gregor, few succeed. < 1323968534 933306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I achieved it reasonably easily < 1323968543 364854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's for doing five levels in limited rotations mode) < 1323968545 599142 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies < 1323968556 215171 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1323968556 396472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's a different Gregor < 1323968557 302937 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1323968580 154446 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a PL grad student in CS at IU Bloomington, if that gets me any street cred. < 1323968585 676389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? welcome < 1323968588 330642 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1323968591 891356 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Uh oh, I think we're supposed to fight now. < 1323968602 786279 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: 'cuz I'm a PL grad student in CS at Purdue West Lafayette :P < 1323968609 11675 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1323968612 794545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, just do what I do when I come across someone from Manchester < 1323968620 345703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to ineffectually trade a couple of insults then get bored < 1323968625 638015 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My school has a Dan Friedman and a Kent Dybvig. Can I harness those? < 1323968641 118641 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: My school has RCS and ... aww fuck. < 1323968690 715496 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys recently got Amal, right? < 1323968693 898128 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's pretty legit. < 1323968696 203702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, RCS was good for its time < 1323968734 909229 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm just making hyukjokes here :P < 1323968793 148627 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, UK media are starting to cover the US election, now < 1323968795 724554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it like over there? < 1323968820 643013 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The republican primaries are even more of a zoo than they usually are. < 1323968831 108787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "zoo"? < 1323968832 257836 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And the democrats are basically standing back going "... dafuq" < 1323968837 278853 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. < 1323968840 107175 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Where do I even begin. < 1323968845 254102 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The republicans have chosen a bunch of crazies to run. < 1323968850 804006 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like they thought < 1323968860 334495 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAJNntoRgA Here's one contender < 1323968871 847316 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We're never going to beat Obama. Let's just run one of those people we've been promising for decades because there's never a chance he'll win." < 1323968877 218382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: go for it anyway, I know that the US election process probably /is/ as crazy as the UK media makes it look, but still find it hard to believe < 1323968884 312990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: ah, I see < 1323968895 397886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually think Biden was the sanest Republican candidate there's been for a while < 1323968902 287069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Palin, not so much…) < 1323968909 534460 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I lived in Texas for a long while. I would never, ever vote for Rick Perry. < 1323968928 283174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he actually became noticeably crazier while campaiging for the election, then back to normal after Obama won < 1323968931 759863 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joe Biden, the guy currentl in office as a democrat? < 1323968937 690822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not hm < 1323968939 885817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :McCain < 1323968947 275104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get confused easily between American politicans < 1323968949 212012 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*politicians < 1323968973 269444 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1323968976 996814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably the same happens in reverse: how many Americans here know the deputy prime minister of the UK?) < 1323968983 403335 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :George McBush and Alaska Spice, you mean? < 1323968987 931393 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So who's still really in the running? I guess Mitt Romney and .... Mitt Romney. < 1323968993 461545 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can google it? < 1323968993 894423 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: "Alaska Spice" X-D < 1323969002 621219 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Mitt Romney is pretty much the only sane one. < 1323969004 988989 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he's even crazy. < 1323969009 298860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: indeed < 1323969012 133114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not a case of knowing it < 1323969015 820063 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As republicans this year go, he's quite sane. < 1323969026 663283 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't make him especially sane, because it's a very biased polling group. < 1323969027 419434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ooh, I've even heard of him < 1323969028 285285 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But y'know. < 1323969057 52293 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to beat politicians with sticks. < 1323969060 885057 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like it would be more productive. < 1323969072 164877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, most UKians probably couldn't name the leader of the opposition at the moment < 1323969075 860770 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Herman Cain was a "major" candidate for a while. He was the CEO of a pizza chain and quoted an "anonymous poet" when he was actually quoting the theme of the Pokemon 2000 movie. < 1323969092 308112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well, does Pokémon 2000 have its poet credited? < 1323969096 337963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, it's done by an anonymous poet < 1323969096 890664 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Ed whatshisname with the brother < 1323969102 151445 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Balls < 1323969103 824991 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one < 1323969107 602097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Milliband? < 1323969113 233522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's one of the Millibands, but can't remember which < 1323969113 411152 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not a secret, and it's not poetry, it's a piece of shitty music that's the theme to a movie :P < 1323969119 630660 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that one < 1323969127 449039 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know it's one of the Eds < 1323969130 246821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see… the way to remember it is that there's two Eds and two Millibands < 1323969134 334417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just take the intersection? < 1323969138 438638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a surprisingly simple mnemonic < 1323969147 300941 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not Harriet Harman < 1323969157 55880 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just remember it doesn't matter who wins < 1323969171 216996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: in the US, or the UK? < 1323969176 304371 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK it generally does matter < 1323969177 109318 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, that pokemon thing was probably just his script writer messing with him. < 1323969177 406196 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahha.. anywhere? < 1323969188 589327 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly I think the funniest wannabe-contender is Santorum. He honestly couldn't even get into the runnings because his name means "the frothy mix of lube and feces that is sometimes an unintended result of anal sex" < 1323969220 400095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you get occasionally noticeable third-or-subsequent-party wins in the UK < 1323969224 568227 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i doubt that it matters in any meaningful sense < 1323969238 612478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noticeable effects on the resulting policy too, especially on Europe < 1323969257 95942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even possible that Scotland will referendum about independence some time soon < 1323969263 607494 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: You can see we talk about esoteric programming a lot here. < 1323969271 166163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the results of the last election < 1323969278 778583 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHH, CS words? Not C-Swords? Or both? < 1323969279 444817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey, can't political bribery be considered an esolang? < 1323969290 219434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was wondering that myself, I saw both expansions pretty quickly < 1323969291 261301 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should make an esolang about European politics < 1323969292 289580 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Too mainstream :P < 1323969317 77791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: of the EU government in particular? or the various member states? < 1323969318 444331 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was too busy trying to figure out what "csw" meant < 1323969321 473683 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whois suggests it's probably C. Swords < 1323969322 266033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :their governments aren't that similar to each other < 1323969325 937229 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, europe as a whole < 1323969335 549334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: both? < 1323969337 351699 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With all the minutuae < 1323969342 464776 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it's C. Swords. < 1323969347 874279 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right down to the councillor for Hexham East < 1323969350 608994 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though apparently I've been mistaken for a bot who spews CS terms. < 1323969362 79964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what constituency is Hexham in, btw? < 1323969362 512737 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham is full of idiots < 1323969367 934646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it large enough to have one for itself? < 1323969369 667259 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the handily named Hexham < 1323969376 932587 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not large enough, remote enough < 1323969380 170314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, that's quite a convenient name < 1323969387 146031 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Haha, now we know who you are! < 1323969395 378179 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of the largest in England < 1323969396 868631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's the only place of note in the entire surrounding countryside, so the constituency it's in is named after it? < 1323969402 389978 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1323969406 781833 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Although if you get a PhD, you'll be Dr. Swords, which is almost as good as my colleague Prof. Hammer < 1323969416 386455 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha. < 1323969420 409973 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It contains the point in the UK that is furthest from a road < 1323969421 349129 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's part of why I'm working on my PhD. < 1323969422 789042 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1323969431 176010 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can become a supervillain without even changing my name. < 1323969437 979100 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had a PhD, I'd sound like a supervillain almost as much < 1323969441 365438 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a little keming < 1323969453 629420 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. Richards. BORING NAME. *sobblecopter* < 1323969487 542591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I couldn't become a supervillain without changing my name, but not because of the name < 1323969492 236514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not cut out to be a supervillain :( < 1323969503 875466 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not evil enough < 1323969507 581743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1323969521 470183 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the margarine of evil, the diet coke of evil < 1323969554 94337 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's closer to the Ghandi of evil < 1323969556 962474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably be pretty bad even as a subvillain, to be fair < 1323969562 80169 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, not even evil < 1323969606 635968 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, if I got a PhD, I think Marvel could have a could try at a lawsuit against me < 1323969627 621257 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: We don't know your surname :P < 1323969630 950959 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexham in the UK? < 1323969635 228526 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, yes < 1323969635 431194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it is < 1323969640 906108 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, van Doorn < 1323969668 183210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live on the roof of the forum cinema in hexham < 1323969669 150884 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also three esolangers there: elliott, Taneb, and we don't know of the existence of the third but I'm claiming they exist now in order to be able to go "see? I was right" later < 1323969694 875210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1323969697 539532 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I reckon you're closer to spoon's roof < 1323969709 623184 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a new person! < 1323969710 292108 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Obviously itidus21 < 1323969711 952307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cswords < 1323969723 227517 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A /legit/ new person. Not locking us in a matrix of solidity or anything. < 1323969725 675731 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the funny thing is, I expected they'd probably been here before but `?welcomed them anyway < 1323969730 766568 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure is a small little hamlet < 1323969733 65168 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, my plan paid off! < 1323969752 397938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : err, not hm < 1323969752 577086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : McCain < 1323969752 819644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323969764 311164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biden McCain < 1323969778 661745 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Then who is going to lock us in our matrix of solidity? :/ < 1323969790 304804 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can be found in Gallowsbank Wood... < 1323969790 967710 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, Dilston is a hamlet. Lowgate is a hamlet. /Fellside/ is a hamlet. Hexham is a TOWN godammit! < 1323969806 73493 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Don't worry, we'll ALWAYS be locked in a matrix of solidity. We lock it ourselves. < 1323969835 105851 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: BTW: < 1323969837 650254 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1323969838 927304 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1323969844 446003 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1323969847 612506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : hexham is full of idiots < 1323969849 69947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1323969852 879490 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wsa here earlier this morning. < 1323969857 355281 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because every new person has to go "huh?" and then try to hack the bot. < 1323969859 365613 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1323969870 987206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also, every old person? < 1323969872 519156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: oh, thanks for reminding me I haven't logread yet < 1323969883 526859 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it handle forkbombs? < 1323969884 338171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will defer it until there isn't innocent newbies around.
< 1323969893 532405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: they just vanish after a while < 1323969894 400359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :` :() { : | :& }; : < 1323969896 713208 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1323969897 678622 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323969900 538491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run :() { : | :& }; : < 1323969903 32701 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323969908 812133 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323969912 539033 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they vanish a lot quicker than that; ulimits < 1323969914 462260 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good. < 1323969919 386226 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Herman Cain was a "major" candidate for a while. He was the CEO of a pizza chain and quoted an "anonymous poet" when he was actually quoting the theme of the Pokemon 2000 movie. < 1323969919 565630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: It's not a secret, and it's not poetry, it's a piece of shitty music that's the theme to a movie :P < 1323969929 710547 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an innocent newbie? < 1323969930 645365 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hey, I want to live in a world where major political candidates quote the theme to the Pokemon 2000 movie. < 1323969931 291482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to remember if I've watched Pokémon 2000 < 1323969932 463801 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel like one :/ < 1323969937 657640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Well, maybe a guilty newbie. < 1323969939 332755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the plot about? I've watched exactly two Pokémon movies, I Think < 1323969940 939491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I think < 1323969948 746917 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords, I was probably the most innocent newbie here < 1323969957 755549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We corrupted Taneb in, like, a day. < 1323969960 505272 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I've seen the first one, and the one with Celebi in it < 1323969963 708256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote poultry < 1323969966 592991 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :200) elliott: My university has two Poultry Science buildings. Two! \ 297) Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice. < 1323969972 936109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: How many poultry science buildings does /your/ university have? < 1323969991 656566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not aware that mine has any < 1323969993 737770 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords, I will now transform into my other alias! < 1323969998 378291 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net NICK :Ngevd < 1323969999 236805 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1_____enUS420US420&gcx=c&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=IU+bloomington+poultry+science Looks line none. < 1323969999 461897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has quite a lot of buildings, so it's possible I just haven't found one yet < 1323970002 263829 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ngevd < 1323970003 351251 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's the one with lugia nd the three islands < 1323970004 452683 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :S�~v�8��.�y[�$V&��.F.��.m*���`����uޱs�u�#͔کף�.Th.���U.>�-.�i�*�.5eu�6*q]q.ŕmL.�#�y.�:VjĎN���PH:'�.V[OK�+v��.Z�����9ɚM*������ԽH.�k��*Q�]i�a/�]95rFԴ.W�( ��B�..?.�������^�}�]�m�M� < 1323970009 582845 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oy vey, we go CRAZY when there are new people. < 1323970009 924274 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the three I've seen < 1323970011 899029 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRAAAAAAAAAAZY < 1323970013 68791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Vastly inferior! < 1323970021 520215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: with the first gen legendary bird trio key to the plot? < 1323970023 935540 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1323970027 430023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, I have watched it < 1323970028 689911 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Um, we haven't even introduced the other bots yet?? We can get way crazier. < 1323970031 372540 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, I have to study for this final at 5. < 1323970032 427276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Say hi to fungot! < 1323970032 787409 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so i can unroll the loops it's always shorter than the other < 1323970041 573565 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on type inferencing and logic programming :() < 1323970043 260721 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's written in Funge-98! < 1323970044 251772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1323970044 428761 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1323970044 828367 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1323970052 114471 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "I can do Haskell!" < 1323970052 824815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: ooh, type inference < 1323970053 6974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "I can do Haskell!" < 1323970071 710544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("And nobody loves me.\n"); < 1323970076 147408 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's written in miniKanren... < 1323970077 239046 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nobody loves me. < 1323970079 32109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I always thought those diagrams which changed colour to show the balance of power between the birds would make a good board game, but never figured out how < 1323970088 185063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Kanren! Didn't Oleg do that? < 1323970093 778240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323970095 126376 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, with Dan. < 1323970096 198962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I've never heard of Kanren < 1323970097 540434 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (I have no idea if this will work)S < 1323970097 716568 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if this will work < 1323970100 451527 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Dan's teaching the class.) < 1323970103 867734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, elliott will mock me for never having heard of it < 1323970111 720799 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it's a logic programming language embedded in Scheme. < 1323970114 15887 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot does underload and brainfuck(?), too < 1323970114 26764 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has only ever seen Kanren referenced on Oleg's site.
< 1323970114 305681 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what can we do it your way since it's your lang). xd. < 1323970117 685240 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello everyone? < 1323970119 388434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And knows almost nothing about it. < 1323970125 855143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how do you continue a /me on another line? < 1323970128 179265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err what, that's out of character for you < 1323970135 602918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both /me and /msg seem inadequate < 1323970138 294068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: yep, underload/bf < 1323970141 740575 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a /me... or something < 1323970145 849603 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=10663 Dan's teaching the class and Will is a guy I play starcraft with. < 1323970151 60042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: definitely /msg is better than /me, although I agree it isn't perfect < 1323970154 648677 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egobot can do... < 1323970169 413964 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!userinterps < 1323970169 743919 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Installed user interpreters: acro aol austro bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chiqrsx9p choo cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld id insanetemp jethro kraut lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 sadbf sanetemp sfedeesh sffedeesh simplename slashes svedeesh sw < 1323970173 440162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Oh no, not another Starcraft player. < 1323970181 744968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes at least two. < 1323970186 651333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's quite common < 1323970198 482451 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's almost as many as there are Hexhamites in here! < 1323970199 850439 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was up to platinum back in March, but my thesis and grad school have been eating my skills. < 1323970200 130935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!rot47 abcde < 1323970201 57784 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :23456 < 1323970203 154455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(How long until the bloody Starcraft/Homestuck #esoteric civil war of 2012 begins?) < 1323970210 859675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or the Hexham/Helsinki war, I suppose.) < 1323970215 502235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It could go either way.) < 1323970219 655647 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Homestuck? < 1323970223 498301 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323970224 295307 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That ... that is an unlikely war in the real world :P < 1323970227 932785 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :::::D < 1323970230 6149 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1323970235 90907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: A very long webcomic. < 1323970242 721438 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very short, too, in a way < 1323970243 26158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is probably a bad conversation to appear in the middle of < 1323970243 428375 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what properties of hexham inspire esolang < 1323970244 373632 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Good thing this is IRC, then! < 1323970253 366601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's nowhere near as long as Mezzacotta < 1323970265 16384 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout Minecraft? We can get the TRIFECTA < 1323970266 327835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: YET. < 1323970281 615694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The Minecrafters seceded like a year ago, dude! < 1323970287 953426 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Hexham? < 1323970294 280926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: a town in the UK < 1323970295 544988 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All attempts to google it end poorly. < 1323970297 105563 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1323970297 287020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: A considerably shorter webcomic in Finland. < 1323970299 705948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is /just/ large enough for me to have heard of it < 1323970315 575887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helsinki is a Hexham-based RTS game with population ~10k. < 1323970318 610765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott currently lives there, so does Ngevd < 1323970330 483332 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems the two most popular places for esolangers to live are Hexham and Helsinki < 1323970349 34366 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to get a friend into esolanging < 1323970354 844329 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he lives in Corbridge... < 1323970359 105272 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So he won't :( < 1323970377 242544 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for the exam, I need to know Monads (mostly just state and reader), type inferencing, logic programming (converting to, reading and explaining output). < 1323970380 836484 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will be... fun. < 1323970382 77054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will never ally with a despicable Corbdigea... Corbridigia... Corbri... I give up.
< 1323970383 458284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: this is probably a bad conversation to appear in the middle of <-- okay, I just wanted to check for lambdabot messages really < 1323970398 905490 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Not just type inference but type inferen/cing/? < 1323970401 336576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten times more verbed! < 1323970407 499707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Vorpal Hi. < 1323970407 708324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1323970409 415790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: #haskell would have been safer < 1323970411 478851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, .. < 1323970411 711983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1323970416 359644 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: Dude, in #esoteric the 13-yr-olds know those. Ba-dum tish. < 1323970421 710991 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1323970423 502889 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you want "Corstopitan" < 1323970424 640657 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nevermind then. < 1323970428 194283 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323970446 406586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? I'm kind of busy and not about to really join into the discussion, but why is it a bad conversation to appear in the middle of? < 1323970455 780318 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use Latin when available and not stupid < 1323970456 976428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much context required < 1323970466 828918 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "Oxonian" and "Novacastrian" < 1323970487 751280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Novocastrian < 1323970489 679308 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sez google < 1323970493 821857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: what do you mean by "logic programming"? I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but am unsure at how to expan that name for it < 1323970507 945771 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Prolog, surely < 1323970508 238330 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: just try with Birmingham, it doesn't work < 1323970511 772384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, Kanren :P < 1323970513 999902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Prolog-alikes, I mean < 1323970516 793035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, OK < 1323970524 84510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that's what it meant, but it didn't seem to make sense in context < 1323970524 846846 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. < 1323970528 792437 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't say Kanren is much like Prolog, to be honest. < 1323970532 256021 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's easy, residents of Birmingham are referred to as "bums" < 1323970537 105637 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: birminghamiltonian < 1323970540 258902 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the original Latin. < 1323970552 472144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm… < 1323970595 581630 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Language list‎; 09:06 . . (+215) . . 149.255.39.58 (Talk) (That's fine for the House and Senate but for president, there is no way any conservative should vote for either Democrat that will be stuffed down our throats next year. The House is the grand prize.) < 1323970599 492141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a good spam edit summary. < 1323970644 284773 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit now I have the song from pokemon 2000 stuck in my head < 1323970656 654948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it's not like I can protect the language list < 1323970660 472754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, but it'd be pointless < 1323970665 405434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, counterproductive < 1323970669 18453 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So glad I never watched a Pookieman movie. < 1323970669 394486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't tell you to :P < 1323970674 756181 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or had any of the games. < 1323970675 422306 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHAT? < 1323970681 306524 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or could name more than two Pookiemans. < 1323970684 735942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know < 1323970684 913654 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Watching at least two is mandatory < 1323970688 378289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: which two? < 1323970694 374461 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, but do you not, to quote an anonymous poet, wanna be the very best, like no-one ever was? < 1323970698 116749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect you to have at least one in short-term memory as it was mentioned earlier < 1323970701 943253 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I named a Pokemon after you! < 1323970707 223174 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pikachu and Squirtle (if I'm spelling that right) < 1323970707 902887 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's now a Kirlia! < 1323970714 586599 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not even Bulbasaur? < 1323970716 109861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: indeed you are < 1323970726 36322 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The games are also awesome < 1323970729 676175 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know that names one, but I couldn't associate it with the actual Pookieman. < 1323970735 681743 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Leaf turtle. < 1323970738 105960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Angry leaf turtle. < 1323970741 297518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, some day there'll be someone who says "I only know one/two Pokémon", then names a really obscure one rather than one of the starters < 1323970753 249744 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then it should be Angryliefturtlemon :P < 1323970755 42406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey, it doesn't get leaves until it evolves to Ivysaur < 1323970760 712649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but that's /Digimon/'s naming scheme! < 1323970766 963231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BULBS THEN!! < 1323970767 708311 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1323970769 747161 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tropius and Luvdisc < 1323970782 230332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : you know, some day there'll be someone who says "I only know one/two Pokémon", then names a really obscure one rather than one of the starters < 1323970789 387815 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How many Pokemon games until everyone forgets the original starters? < 1323970791 351967 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we now having a Most Obscure Pokemon Naming Challenge? < 1323970795 772583 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I'm stuck on Petalburg gym < 1323970798 313186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I actually played a bit of a pokemon game, yet I can only name Pikachu and Magikarp < 1323970805 562287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the names of any other ones < 1323970807 353264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: infinity, they keep plowing on the original starters for marketing value even when they aren't actually in the game < 1323970812 312772 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it was nice to meet you people! I'm gonna idle here, but disappear to coerce knowledge into my head. < 1323970816 385984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, Magikarp isn't a starter < 1323970827 590457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just remember it being bloody useless < 1323970828 773619 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine if it was! < 1323970830 296403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Ruby or Sapphire? < 1323970833 718708 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emerald < 1323970835 656635 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have prepared to war with you depending on the answer. < 1323970836 829645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway neither was Pikachu iirc in that game < 1323970837 598691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1323970843 856773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Lib Dem option! < 1323970844 473249 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other popular things do I know nothing about ... < 1323970845 467800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was some GBA one. Don't remember which. < 1323970848 539717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pikachu's a starter in Pokémon Yellow < 1323970859 613675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was based on the plot of the anime < 1323970864 769528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's the game of the anime of the game…) < 1323970866 794214 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might have been emerald or something like that? < 1323970868 200270 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cswords: try unsafeCoerce < 1323970870 858330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I played a bit of < 1323970882 962933 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm left wing anti-unionist. And Emerald is Green. The last Lib Dem Pokemon game was Heart Gold, and before the Gold, and before that, Yellow Pikachu Special < 1323970884 833182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, Magikarp is not a starter in any game < 1323970887 305857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's /Magikarp/ < 1323970887 486323 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emerald was very good < 1323970888 98940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some gem stone anyway < 1323970891 342631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1323970899 376984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gemstone* < 1323970906 215924 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Pokemon politics are so confusing. < 1323970910 722799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Magikarp would be the best starter. < 1323970913 85966 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :obligatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye7b3bOQ6lY < 1323970914 599924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it'd have been Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald < 1323970916 653419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pokemon Horrific Crippling Failure < 1323970930 681056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, it /is/ possible to complete the game without your starter being able to deal damage < 1323970932 836114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think the bad guys were "team magma" or something like that < 1323970935 519942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1323970936 283970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sapphire < 1323970937 829531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323970950 620828 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the newest pokedex text for magikarp < 1323970954 398348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was genuinely the missing piece of information, as one of the few things that varies between third-gen games < 1323970960 44393 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, or Emerald, but that had team Aqua as villains, too < 1323970964 552293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what is it? (and is it the same in black and white?) < 1323970978 561305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1323970988 467045 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's the same as one of the earlier ones. Basically "It can use Splash to jump over a mountain, but the move is still entirely useless." < 1323970988 646294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in black as in white < 1323970994 397918 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, it's the same between games < 1323970994 794661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: right, OK < 1323971005 603640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, how could I tell which one from a vague recollection of playing a few hours of a game I found rather repetitive. < 1323971008 109114 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323971026 151286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: were you playing on someone else's completed game? or on a new game file? < 1323971026 508651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean sure, it was fun for the first hour or two. But then it was just more and more of the same stuff. < 1323971037 624378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think I was playing in an emulator. And new game < 1323971050 119354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323971062 366573 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem with the Pokémon games is that they've mostly gotten easier over time < 1323971064 298519 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What colour was your character's headthingy band < 1323971067 945999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the result that there isn't a whole lot of skill in it any more < 1323971071 965013 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sort of like all other games? < 1323971085 584628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: that varies between third-gen games? < 1323971087 182365 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I always felt that RSE was the worst for difficulty < 1323971087 391573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Games are sooo easy" -- person who doesn't play any games < 1323971091 513657 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-D < 1323971094 249064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I do believe I got near some sort of temple or something with really hard guys at the very right side of the map before I got too bored and stopped playing. < 1323971095 827110 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, between R/S and E < 1323971107 577221 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Back in my day, I didn't have to walk with a cane, but I couldn't shake it at kids on my lawn either! < 1323971108 557458 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, R/S is red, E is green < 1323971108 990284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you're assuming that Vorpal was playing as Brendon rather than as May < 1323971112 560950 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe I'm just bad, but the final fights in BW were a pain, and then the postgame does a massive difficulty spike < 1323971113 189686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote elliott: Back in my day, I didn't have to walk with a cane, but I couldn't shake it at kids on my lawn either! < 1323971113 695406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably quite a safe guess < 1323971115 400686 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :763) elliott: Back in my day, I didn't have to walk with a cane, but I couldn't shake it at kids on my lawn either! < 1323971117 277705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, who? < 1323971129 4750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: err, I thought Brendon's headband was white? < 1323971129 482950 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what answer do you expect to that question? < 1323971141 524753 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, his hair was, his headband wasn't? < 1323971149 9352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: aha, that could have been it < 1323971149 625650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, could you select gender or name or something? I don't remember. < 1323971156 838203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can select gender < 1323971160 342765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323971172 854887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brendon and May are the canon names for the male and female characters that aren't just "Ruby" and "Sapphire" < 1323971174 455394 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-227-55.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323971178 417921 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323971204 125090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I /probably/ played as a guy. < 1323971212 909408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : What colour was your character's headthingy band <-- you think I could remember that? < 1323971219 270618 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no chance < 1323971230 882094 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you remember a temple... < 1323971239 122242 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1323971249 463645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not have actually been called a temple < 1323971253 620260 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not the oceanic museum < 1323971265 169432 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not the volcano < 1323971270 369041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, have there been /any/ temples in Pokémon? < 1323971276 219049 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in Ranger < 1323971281 932676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: definitely, agreed < 1323971285 149010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, oh some sort of museum with somewhat educational signs in it sounds familiar now that you mention it < 1323971287 71202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: game difficulty is perhaps the greatest allure of the game... how exactly a game comes to be difficult < 1323971289 364673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there was such a thing < 1323971292 178783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I might have to abort this logread < 1323971296 122612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the main games, Spear Pillar probably counts, so does that Sinjoh event place in HeartGold/SoulSilver < 1323971311 287259 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can say < 1323971312 141433 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the church in one of the cities in Pearl/Diamond < 1323971320 472565 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: but that's a church < 1323971321 548822 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The Regigigas temple < 1323971324 337072 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, have there been /any/ temples in Pokémon? <-- I don't know what it was actually called. Final dungeon? Whatever. < 1323971324 547912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that count as a temple < 1323971335 656076 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1323971336 16175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: right, indeed, definitely; "Snowpoint Temple", I forgot about that < 1323971337 773397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just reminded me of a temple, that was all < 1323971345 143384 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, hmm < 1323971349 791038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the final dungeon is Victory Road in every Pokémon game so far < 1323971350 64733 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was there lava? < 1323971355 483057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in no game has it even vaguely resembled a temple < 1323971364 827167 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1323971375 815174 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :BW had a great Victory Road < 1323971379 190968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, at some point in the game yes. There was also some water at in a lake or something :P < 1323971379 979553 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Leaf Green and Fire Red, it did a bit < 1323971383 299229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: it's /called/ Victory Road in each game, but is different in each) < 1323971397 85708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : in no game has it even vaguely resembled a temple <-- so my memory might be off then. < 1323971404 531952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm, all of them are pretty good < 1323971408 115315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could it be Mt. Pyre? < 1323971414 82008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, no clue < 1323971420 380463 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Vorpal said the bosses were to the right < 1323971423 172429 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I found RBY's to be a bit annoying < 1323971425 260160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Mt. Pyre, they're upwards < 1323971426 648160 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1323971435 998832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shurg < 1323971438 556144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: RBY had the best puzzles < 1323971442 503332 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true < 1323971446 389428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we know it was sapphire or emerald I guess < 1323971448 221986 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is Pokemon Blite/Whack worth playing? < 1323971450 340803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Victory Road puzzle is quite a good one < 1323971451 201619 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :BW's puzzles sucked < 1323971460 692753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does it really matter which one? < 1323971465 150684 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was especially annoyed by the last gym < 1323971466 257950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not as good as some of the other Pokémon games, but it's still quite good < 1323971472 809853 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which the NPCs keep talking about as if it's a real headscratcher < 1323971473 866798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's extremely linear, unlike most of the others < 1323971474 168221 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not < 1323971477 190220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the only other one I've played is Sapphire < 1323971479 926031 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only have one direction to go < 1323971495 100356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's /literally/ linear, in that the accessible-before-endgame world map is literally topologically equivalent to a line < 1323971501 540563 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323971508 229186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except Anville Town, but it's intended for competitive players and most other players don't spot it at all on their first run through < 1323971514 589668 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :HG/SS are definitely the best < 1323971520 88567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: agreed < 1323971550 462261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Black/White are pretty streamlined and low on annoyances, anyway < 1323971560 550179 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that, probably the original G/S < 1323971576 135984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the look about it of a game in an established series that isn't trying to annoy anyone and isn't trying to do anything vastly amazing and new < 1323971580 588942 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really enjoyed FR/LG too, probably above B/W < 1323971580 765757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the innovations are in the graphics < 1323971592 597462 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :D/P are the worst in my opinion < 1323971597 138913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1323971611 312890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if you ignore the battle system < 1323971614 17967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I might play it if DS emulation is good enough; I probably don't care enough to play it on a physical DS < 1323971621 125973 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What would you say is the worst? < 1323971629 184644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Black/White have anti-emulator code, although it's probably been patched around by now < 1323971640 467433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, I haven't actually played FR/LG < 1323971647 710465 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1323971656 169487 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there are two major problems I have with the pokemon games: 1) to me they get repetitive after a few hours 2) Nintendo released multiple versions of the same game basically. I mean, the difference between red/green, sapphire/ruby are basically just that a different team are the bad guys. Sure it is cheaper for nintendo, but I don't think it is fair towards the buyers really < 1323971657 83530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all good in different ways < 1323971661 882799 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1323971665 123557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "fair"? < 1323971666 37303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :R/B hasn't held up all too well with time, I think < 1323971668 292549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you buy one and exactly one of them < 1323971669 853884 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1323971677 627449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although all the glitches that have been discovered since make it fun just for that < 1323971678 120212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the buyers end up paying... um, the exact same amount as they would < 1323971694 741676 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :RBY don't have the improvements in interface that started around 3rd gen < 1323971719 681498 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: well, HGSS wins on interface, hands down < 1323971723 326283 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323971735 658783 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of annoying to me that they didn't bring the good features back < 1323971736 328553 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, and then you miss out on content from the other game. They could just have put both stories in the same game with a selection at the start. The difference are rather small from what I understand. < 1323971741 935469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the AceHack to gold/silver < 1323971742 669326 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there is no content from the other game < 1323971743 127727 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could play HGSS without the ABXY buttons < 1323971748 709983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apart from one pokemon and like < 1323971752 212701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mirror storyline < 1323971753 669325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can trade < 1323971766 34549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have one game, you can mathematically derive the other one < 1323971767 620406 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to me, story is important < 1323971775 20750 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Emerald's is better anyway < 1323971775 310612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the explanation to that is that multiple Pokémon games are developed at once < 1323971776 40835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the stories are literally identical, you just s/word/inverse/ < 1323971781 13619 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1323971789 312042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Diamond and Pearl and FireRed/LeafGreen were being developed at the same time < 1323971794 529690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and different enemy base maps and such. < 1323971796 389778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sapphire: team magma want to get rid of water!!! ruby: team aqua want to get rid of land!!! < 1323971799 957437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know for a fact that that's true with HGSS/BW, but it wouldn't surprise me at all < 1323971802 972860 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not to my knowledge < 1323971807 624275 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully Gy will have the non-suck interface from HGSS < 1323971809 725991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the enemy base maps are the same < 1323971817 51658 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What really frustrates me about BW is the inconsistency < 1323971820 494864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh really? < 1323971826 558932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, anyone who cares most about story is going to be incredibly disappointed by the pokemon games :P < 1323971836 431866 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are menus where you can't use the touch screen, and menus where you can't use the buttons < 1323971839 474791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, they've actually made an effort with the story in BW < 1323971839 651183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so they have to do neutral bases then, rather than theme them after the team? < 1323971843 839688 :NihilistDandy!~ND@stu-99-155-171-184.champlain.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1323971852 270705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh < 1323971862 760210 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true < 1323971863 893199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is pokemon an RPG? I think it kind of is in that genre < 1323971866 302319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only is it internally consistent, it's even vaguely plausible, and has something resembling plot < 1323971867 835867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1323971873 754674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ofc it is < 1323971879 425076 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And, most importantly, emotional investment < 1323971882 430179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, how can you say story is not important < 1323971884 916720 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found myself feeling sorry for N by the end of it < 1323971887 379529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: meh, I ignore that < 1323971892 793907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it isn't? < 1323971895 448923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPGs have gameplay, too < 1323971900 11464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can feel sorry for N, but if you think about it, the ending treats him pretty well < 1323971918 731953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"His full name was revealed to be Natural Harmonia Gropius" < 1323971926 645620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but story is kind of important to them. Much more so than many other genres. < 1323971927 644406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--bulbapedia < 1323971944 941682 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It certainly does; that doesn't mean I can't feel sorry for his history < 1323971946 623434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that his actions throughout most of the game can be interpreted as an attempt to find out the truth with respect to something in particular, and at the end, he actually discovers it < 1323971963 355562 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, it's spoiler-free spoiler communication < 1323971965 244084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is always fun! < 1323971970 708274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1323971972 429047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to deduce the spoilers involved through pure reason
< 1323971994 524588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the whole point in that communication style is that you probably can figure it out if you want to, but it takes enough mental effort that you won't do it without trying < 1323971998 418655 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /most/ of his actions can. Initially he's not; it's encountering the player that causes him to doubt himself and seek the truth < 1323972007 450311 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, and everyone else. But especially the player) < 1323972021 620464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm; that's one of the possible interpretations, I'm not sure it's the only one < 1323972029 187066 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :... goddamit I'm having a discussion about the literary qualities of a Pokemon game < 1323972034 306849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there is little variation in the battles. It is just basically the same all the time. Sure there are different pokemons and leveling them up and items and different techniques and so on. But it is all just "think a bit, select action from menu" < 1323972037 660589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, if half the world's electorates were anything like N, the world would be a much better place < 1323972041 137511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really enjoy that sort of combat < 1323972045 721253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mr. Emulator! How good is DeSmuME? < 1323972051 17057 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hah, true < 1323972054 575132 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote ... goddamit I'm having a discussion about the literary qualities of a Pokemon game < 1323972057 101339 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :764) ... goddamit I'm having a discussion about the literary qualities of a Pokemon game < 1323972058 8394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fairly okay for some games at least < 1323972081 766444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think desmume is what's used for researching information in Pokémon < 1323972084 734625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like RNG research, etc < 1323972094 924248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think I played two games in it. Was a while ago. < 1323972096 9637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black/White have DRM that attempts to detect it < 1323972106 184487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, that's promising; although it might be just because it's open source, rather than an especially good emulator < 1323972107 180625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not bsnes quality, not even zsnes quality. But okay. < 1323972111 318434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, if you want to play the games, you should really buy them if you think it's worth the money < 1323972114 231471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it possibly easier to automate < 1323972125 467232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, makes it easier to implement features like rerecording < 1323972153 482085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I presume that future pokemon games are going to be on the 3DS? < 1323972154 573072 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would buy it if Nintendo would sell me ROMs < 1323972174 666088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but given the information I have, I don't think it'd be worth the hassle of playing it on a physical system < 1323972193 677472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not confirmed, but it seems pretty likely < 1323972204 516901 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323972212 354700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially considering the 3DS's sales figure; Nintendo probably want to put out a Pokémon game to persuade people to buy the console < 1323972216 904005 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wonder how they will make use of the 3D technology in a pokemon game... < 1323972231 633397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Pokémon's been based on a 3D engine since Platinum? < 1323972233 804130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they've been doing that for multiple generations by now... < 1323972236 352221 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh okay < 1323972251 630491 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the overworld has been < 1323972253 384128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although all the sprites are 2D < 1323972254 40421 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok guys we are short on vocabulary and i am not a smart guy < 1323972255 994835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: right < 1323972260 550696 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lets clarify :D < 1323972261 629629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the 3DS isn't actually a DS < 1323972271 755915 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some of the battle animations are 3D as well < 1323972273 324077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, first person perspective? < 1323972275 173329 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular 3d vs stereoscopic 3d < 1323972288 315654 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 3DS is the successor platform < 1323972289 540051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: seems plausible < 1323972291 192055 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even nintendo64 pokemon has regular 3d < 1323972291 375510 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually pretty cool < 1323972300 250782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and it's backwards-compatible one generation, just like most Nintendo portables < 1323972309 511236 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well look at ones like Surf, or the Pledges < 1323972313 31263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment, its major problem is that it doesn't have too many good games < 1323972318 687936 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, I was just so used to the endless DS revisions < 1323972322 451797 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nintendo ds was super backwards compatible < 1323972325 112078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I assumed the 3DS was still basically a DS < 1323972331 726455 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: No, it went back one gen < 1323972333 361273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the games fans I've talked to agree that Super Mario 3D Land is very good < 1323972339 78298 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I need to get that < 1323972341 878521 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Mario Kart 7 < 1323972343 677583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS could play original gameboy games i think < 1323972344 790974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it's the GBA you're thinking of, that went all the way back to the original Game Boy < 1323972349 610628 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.... < 1323972354 705137 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe.. < 1323972359 312957 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again < 1323972360 850724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: whereas Mario Kart 7 is "it's a Mario Kart game; do you like those?" < 1323972365 110397 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Incidentally: What is with 7 that the seventh piece of software in series X gets called X 7 regardless of prior naming schemes?) < 1323972369 860145 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True, but I do :) < 1323972375 201749 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1323972377 653471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : most of the games fans I've talked to agree that Super Mario 3D Land is very good <-- well of course a mario game is going to help selling the platform < 1323972384 688083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reviewers have been really stuck on it < 1323972392 201255 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Incidentally: What is with 7 that the seventh piece of software in series X gets called X 7 regardless of prior naming schemes?) < 1323972396 695787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that is probably one of the most known game series in the world < 1323972397 380714 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :super mario is a bit old hat < 1323972397 968153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: dammit, now I need to find that gif again < 1323972399 646849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can't say much about it except that it's just like the others in the series < 1323972418 220604 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 2D mario games that Nintendo's made over the past few years have all been very good < 1323972421 77017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: well, some people that I respect the opinions of (but don't always agree of) call Super Mario 3D Land the best Mario game ever < 1323972424 194099 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSMB and NSMBW < 1323972439 324131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume there will be/already is some zelda game for 3DS as well? < 1323972447 112777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ocarina of Time, didn't you hear? < 1323972448 536176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they ported it < 1323972451 774422 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1323972454 358684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION liked NSMBW but not as much as SMG; this seemingly-irrelevant comparison is made relevant by my playing them at the same time
< 1323972465 838205 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, upgraded the graphics I hope? < 1323972469 549122 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: DeSmuME is imperfect, but still a decent DS emulator. < 1323972470 235919 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMG1 was a true work of art < 1323972471 64250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's apparently the best Ocarina of Time version ever, although a little redundant if you've played the original < 1323972473 982579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1323972481 338776 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they fixed a bunch of flaws < 1323972482 921299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: SM3DL is made by the SMG people < 1323972488 508923 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, cool < 1323972495 525730 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMG2 was exactly that, sadly < 1323972496 145350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I liked SMG2, even if it was a bit too similar, and I missed the hub world < 1323972506 260979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : and it's apparently the best Ocarina of Time version ever, although a little redundant if you've played the original <-- "best ever" out of 2? < 1323972512 847705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: out of 3, I believe < 1323972513 566723 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P29JNk7945k < 1323972514 718514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1323972515 636793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: this perception is again made relevant by my playing SMG2 like a month after SMG1 < 1323972518 900156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was the third one? < 1323972521 239454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wii < 1323972522 430445 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| quick, rush out and buy uh.. (googles) phantom hourglass and spirit tracks... uhh.. go. go. go. < 1323972527 77053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it would probably have been a disappointment if I'd waited 3 years < 1323972554 143021 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: hourglass was meh; spirit tracks was pretty good < 1323972562 475499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway Ocarina of Time was a really good game. < 1323972566 317161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMG2's main disappointment is that its version of Luigi's Purple Coins is really easy :'( < 1323972569 814429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1323972575 290908 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YES < 1323972580 52877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: which of the games is The Perfect Run in? < 1323972581 609235 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :even all the green stars were fairly easy < 1323972583 524946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I liked zelda 2. *waits for reaction* < 1323972589 588272 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :most involved just doing a triple jump + spin < 1323972592 254645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which one was that? < 1323972594 927848 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i emulate windwaker on my pc but it leaves me with that painful feeling that my pc is way too old < 1323972596 305860 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you realized this, they were simple < 1323972602 282751 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the one that wasn't very much like any other zelda game < 1323972604 505766 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SMG2 < 1323972604 806178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for the NES < 1323972606 727943 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had economic freedom to have always up to date PC < 1323972607 352182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just googled it, didn't recall the name < 1323972617 725994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, OK, there's your Luigi's Purple Coins equivalent < 1323972624 303247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I forget what it is < 1323972634 44284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it unlocks when you've done everything else in the game, and is freakishly difficult, although mostly in the fake-difficulty sort of way < 1323972638 402394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, was windwaker the one with cell shading? < 1323972651 609740 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you talking about the green stars? < 1323972654 444366 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is it, though? < 1323972660 51350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1323972663 269079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the one with all the bosses? < 1323972664 589813 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: those are one of the prerequisites < 1323972665 868691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah... its a sweet game. except my pc is not built for emulating gamecube < 1323972666 606707 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you only have 1 heart? < 1323972668 104511 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh < 1323972670 100410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I youtube'd it) < 1323972672 960695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for a YouTube video < 1323972673 317053 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have missed this then < 1323972679 129742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it has bosses, and platformy sections, and other things too < 1323972683 215950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no continues and one health point < 1323972687 241181 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, I did that < 1323972689 926939 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can run it, but i have to turn down the resolution < 1323972691 183162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, are nintendo still basically aiming their platforms just at kids? (I mean, as far as I know games like Battlefield and so on are basically PS3/xbox/PC) < 1323972691 974734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1323972693 109626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I did < 1323972705 217530 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly got all the green stars, but that's not saying much < 1323972708 567470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the game proper is so easy < 1323972710 773640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, is there actually a good gamecube emulator nowdays? heh < 1323972710 950063 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. also areas where there is a lot of grass in windwaker makes framerate drop for me on my old pc in meulator < 1323972712 578762 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes and no. < 1323972715 675568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, I'll link a speedrun of it, because they tend to be more fun to watch for really difficult bits than regular runs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1zValdb0y4 < 1323972725 387976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, got a link? < 1323972734 887375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was watching a 4 minute one but I'll watch this one instead :P < 1323972741 753986 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ill just find the name of it < 1323972746 870845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that works too < 1323972747 51934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, 4:3 < 1323972748 717568 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird < 1323972755 956690 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, if it's what I'm thinking of, it is easier than Luigi's Purple Coins by far < 1323972762 920662 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The critical points are a) The Wii's graphical capabilities lag behind its competitors and b) Nintendo's approach to online play is /very/ kid-oriented < 1323972772 579601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, ah < 1323972777 208032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm < 1323972788 304979 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its basically just caled dolphin < 1323972788 481575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually know people who say that Luigi's Purple Coins is not as hard as it's widely considered < 1323972793 948250 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because all these sections are from previous levels < 1323972794 338154 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it gets easier with practice < 1323972798 323606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, they are < 1323972798 674211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SMG2 is not very difficult < 1323972801 105191 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes < 1323972805 110587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what about non-online play? I just can't imagine a TES game on a nintendo platform. Ever. < 1323972809 531934 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the time I beat it with Mario, doing so with Luigi was easy < 1323972815 25147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was easy with luigi < 1323972816 16900 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my personality flaws mean if i ever try to get anything nice for myself someone else will sabotage my efforts. its very frustrating < 1323972818 53043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Luigi's Purple Coins is really shallow difficulty < 1323972827 108531 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just fail in stupid ways a few hundred times and then get it without trying < 1323972830 755779 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's been Call of Duty, James Bond, etc. < 1323972834 313746 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's really aggravating < 1323972836 510940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323972836 690897 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No reason it couldn't happen < 1323972842 304060 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :except system power < 1323972845 763891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yeah I heard the Wii sucks < 1323972857 758791 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: depends how you define "good".. if you cannot afford a gamecube,,, it is the only option < 1323972862 30933 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, every time you play it you feel like you have to be doing something wrong < 1323972866 544092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's what it felt like to me < 1323972866 720742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, and skyrim isn't a high end game, at least not when you compare to high end PC-exclusive titles. < 1323972871 676621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, like Witcher 2 < 1323972875 144141 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if your pc kicks ass... the dolphin emulator likewise kicks ass < 1323972907 683047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, pretty sure I've done The Perfect Run < 1323972914 243263 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :computing power is probably the largest reason that Nintendo announced their next console first < 1323972914 738055 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my personality flaws mean if i ever try to get anything nice for myself (like a kickass PC) someone else will sabotage my efforts (taking my things, taking my savings, pawning my things, giving my things away as a gift to someone else). its very frustrating < 1323972920 501764 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah.. venting < 1323972925 881098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, well my PC might not kick ass, but I'm sure it could propel a donkey quite a far distance if I wanted to. < 1323972939 965115 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: how does that have to do with your personality < 1323972950 794506 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you would be surprised. < 1323972974 86966 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you're non-confrontational so people take advantage of you or something? < 1323972981 442508 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw does anyone here know about compressive sensing theory? < 1323972995 70737 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: essentially, yes. :-) < 1323973004 388784 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: :( You should be more confrontational < 1323973013 79500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I /need/ to learn more on the subject, and I would like some good resources on it) < 1323973043 210800 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: just as the rich get richer, the non-confrontational become less confrontational < 1323973053 639288 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm actually I might have done grandmaster galaxy < 1323973058 331568 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am starting to think it's actually systemic < 1323973147 145910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me many years to realize that the people who take advantage of me aren't to blame for my being non-confrontational < 1323973156 706704 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even now i struggle to be sure of that < 1323973165 181413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1323973192 911485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives me insight into third world countries < 1323973285 460557 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: find a friend to lean on < 1323973303 881924 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a lawyer to sue with < 1323973312 295421 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :either works ;P < 1323973318 117151 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323973415 724479 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its ok.. somehow.. this universe curses everyone with problems day in day out. < 1323973433 138068 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but you shouldn't denied your own property < 1323973436 288340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no escape < 1323973437 468820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION achieves bingo
< 1323973439 20669 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be < 1323973445 410778 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make your problems suck less though < 1323973454 610319 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: grats < 1323973463 557455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i couldn't have done it without your help < 1323973470 479306 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if applying sufficient logic, i am a colonialist < 1323973480 219313 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : >:-) < 1323973542 167228 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not being denied "much" property < 1323973549 585245 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all exaggerated in my head < 1323973565 208487 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hard to explain ehehhe < 1323973573 197621 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1323973591 950580 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. i escaped the people who really did deny me a lot < 1323973601 700667 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good < 1323973622 880593 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brother is a bit more weird about it < 1323973672 548016 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the important thing, more important than anyting else is my side of the problem < 1323973772 16436 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323973788 389179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know how Agora has trouble if every judge gets recused from a case? < 1323973800 712947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something similar may happen in SCO vs. IBM < 1323973803 494069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323973820 175580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are only a finite number of judges in Utah; by some calculations, there are only two left < 1323973866 902895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and both have reasonably obvious reasons to recuse themselves < 1323973892 355294 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1323973894 598296 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1323973897 924062 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I suggest you practice saying the following phrase: Fuck off. < 1323973928 551117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: based on following it at Groklaw < 1323973935 705784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this video is kind of funny in a way http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=tZ46Ot4_lLo < 1323973938 353337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latest article is http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20111214164953543 but is missing most of the context < 1323974015 546387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: aha, here's the context: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20111210010653565 < 1323974074 281552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow sometimes I forget everything about interfaces. < 1323974080 210707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just tried to tab-complete a word in irssi
< 1323974081 591984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: which meaning of "interface"? < 1323974086 682768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh, I do that quite a bit, too < 1323974097 473840 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I changed my nick to a word I was having trouble spelling, to make it easier to tab-complete < 1323974101 404677 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tapped the tab key madly. WHY ARE YOU NOT COMPLETING MY WORD.
< 1323974115 654811 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-67-43.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323974115 832822 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-74-67-43.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1323974115 832964 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1323974116 292495 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... wow < 1323974179 897213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also now I have a bad habit of typing ctrl+s when I mean ctrl+f in many programs < 1323974182 928904 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to emacs. < 1323974195 759004 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use / < 1323974199 899125 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works in most sane program < 1323974200 151906 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323974205 750632 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like less! < 1323974206 77446 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/s/ < 1323974218 348721 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, you deleted the end of that string < 1323974221 871278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now it's infinitely long < 1323974235 171365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I actually got the 100% ending of Braid today, complete with the waiting two hours < 1323974239 413354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, yesterday < 1323974272 966430 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1323974302 348056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most people getting into the pretentiousness of Braid have misinterpreted < 1323974304 757710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*misinterpreted it < 1323974310 181433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by time-reversing the wrong parts of the game < 1323974330 297959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, is SCO still going? < 1323974331 556537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1323974389 67400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they were given a loan, under mysterious circumstances < 1323974398 788884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, by whom? < 1323974403 20244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they sold off everything but the litigation to a company called unXis that nobody seems to know much about < 1323974408 228152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: some of their former shareholders, IIRC < 1323974411 769326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323974417 658780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the point? < 1323974425 957047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said the circumstances were mysterious < 1323974445 9207 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of money scam to get money out of the company somehow? < 1323974454 704554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only reason to keep going that I can think of < 1323974477 202508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: everything that's going on makes it reasonably clear that there's at least one, probably two, scams somewhere < 1323974490 708926 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323974491 684422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the straightforward one seems to be being run by Ocean Park, who ended up with most of the money SCO originally had < 1323974501 394031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1323974503 969509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in a completely legal manner, of course) < 1323974510 388015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323974512 294020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's something much more complicated going on too, and I'm not sure what < 1323974526 534949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what makes you think it exists then? < 1323974535 655006 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323974537 214697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also who are Ocean Park? < 1323974611 623626 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1323974642 954703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCO's bankrupcy trustee's accountants < 1323974654 646273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the actions of various people make no sense on information currently known < 1323974665 236007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323974669 914870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm guessing it's because there's information missing < 1323974681 420023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonable assumption < 1323974694 829092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Santa Cruz Operation would be a good title for a heist film. < 1323974701 610413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed! < 1323974720 942384 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's hope there's one going on now, so it has a possibility of being made < 1323974782 110148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth often makes better fiction than actual fiction < 1323974786 812044 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potentially the loan was granted by people who just want to see novell suffer legal costs < 1323974792 437243 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, hey. Sometime while I wasn't paying attention, that torrent came in. < 1323974800 79747 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have a 16 MiB file called "random". < 1323974804 74550 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...what. < 1323974809 601459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I haven't run Transmission since I gave up the first time. < 1323974814 798934 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was while I was talking to you about it. < 1323974816 604413 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fuck? < 1323974822 385648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: indeed; or even IBM < 1323974829 470075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, but doesn't the loosing party have pay the legal costs? < 1323974833 671088 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I never /once/ saw a peer. < 1323974837 860906 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not if they're bankrupt < 1323974841 294807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1323974844 761713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I can't upload 16 megs fast enough to not notice it while I was watching Transmission. < 1323974856 716852 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also the US generally does /not/ award costs < 1323974856 894516 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, I have the file. < 1323974867 925065 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of the biggest flaws of their legal system) < 1323974872 101687 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5sum f6bc78d996ade6145815ab5de9d8cf3f, right? < 1323974873 751797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: M...maybe someone generated the same random bits themselves later on? < 1323974877 928719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I couldn't parse that < 1323974879 842145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: note that typically they have to pay the /court's/ costs, but not the other party's legal fees, which are much larger < 1323974885 236309 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323974886 375361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the costs of running a court aren't massively high < 1323974886 552163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Correct < 1323974895 744670 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The hell. < 1323974902 907716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really just a file of random data? < 1323974906 621800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1323974911 1768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why torrent it? < 1323974913 788348 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He was just testing DHT. < 1323974921 601113 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm, maybe you actually downloaded it from me while we were talking, and Transmission just failed at showing you? < 1323974927 725877 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Could be? < 1323974928 196809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I remember elliott testing DHT like months ago < 1323974944 379038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I WAS READING ABOUT DISTRIBUTED HASH TABLES AND WANTED TO FEEL THE MAGIC < 1323974952 677787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I see < 1323974955 738172 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Basically, the US fails to make the courts the ideal venue for resolution of disputes < 1323974961 398441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I find a tracker is generally more reliable :P < 1323974968 390575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes < 1323974975 510916 :boroda_!~boroda@178.177.17.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323974978 877605 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Small claims courts are the ideal venue, though. < 1323974988 930121 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DHT works fine as soon as you get a peer < 1323974992 309846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting a peer is the problem < 1323974994 115477 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True. But not for large-scale claims < 1323974994 395945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome boroda_ < 1323974995 67417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but only for claims that are actually small < 1323974995 365548 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is *primarily* because your cost consists of filing fees. < 1323974996 178984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1323974997 94127 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :boroda_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1323975000 468922 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, yes. < 1323975005 569634 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I generally want stuff done quickly < 1323975015 482843 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DHT is fast on popular torrents < 1323975016 253805 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beyond that, the courts are the worst venue for resolution of disputes. < 1323975029 369250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but your test ones are not popular! < 1323975034 748413 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would literally be better off going for a duel in many cases. < 1323975037 652584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my test ones aren't on trackers < 1323975045 284415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1323975047 85456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: aren't courts about enforcement, not resolution? < 1323975054 854084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that they have to resolve it first to know what to enforce < 1323975058 772430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, small + no trackers = sloooow < 1323975061 889893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, with duelling then the wrong person would lose half the time < 1323975066 57976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, small as in not popular < 1323975074 399825 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: US courts handle civil and criminal cases. < 1323975075 140105 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Courts are also supposed to be about resolution < 1323975075 487767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more, actually, as good duelists would be able to get away with almost anything, so would be more litigious < 1323975083 808696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: actually, if you both connect to the same popular torrent, it'll go instantly < 1323975085 990588 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Civil cases are about resolving disputes. < 1323975092 759544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two people downloading an ubuntu ISO can DHT with each other perfectly < 1323975102 13419 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*In practice*, people who can hire good lawyers are able to get away with almost anything. < 1323975105 887059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but the main purpose they're used is that the court is (typically) capable of enforcing the result < 1323975129 42776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, popular torrents are generally not DHT-only < 1323975133 445251 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but that's because of a flawed system, not because the point isn't to resolve disputes < 1323975133 623008 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And then publish a book detailing how they did it, with the title "If I did it", and laugh all the way to the bank. < 1323975135 499265 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with duels for resolving disputes, you can personally improve your ability at it. :P < 1323975144 316463 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or, in his case, to jail. < 1323975161 402596 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my view, courts should aim to be the ideal venue for resolving disputes; binding arbitration sucks < 1323975166 950956 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OJ Simpson, complete moron, decided to commit robbery and kidnapping afterwards. He is now serving a 33 year sentence. < 1323975181 404608 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-80-33.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1323975183 438150 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well yeah, but he got away with the murder, he just shot too high is all :P < 1323975184 255105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, someone did that? < 1323975193 318648 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OJ Simpson. < 1323975193 904074 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, popular torrents are generally not DHT-only < 1323975194 341303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably ask who OJ Simpson is < 1323975196 271499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I never said they were < 1323975200 237037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wow, how stupid < 1323975202 205646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of him, and know he's famous for being involved in a criminal trial < 1323975204 700425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not much else < 1323975213 788889 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Some football player, mostly famous now for being acquitted for murder. < 1323975221 337689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he wrote a book called If I Did It < 1323975227 447078 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: saying /how/ he would have committed the crime /if/ he did it < 1323975228 301580 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then how are you able to get data on it? < 1323975229 784704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :while maintaining his innocence < 1323975250 47796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm; such behaviour wouldn't seem sensible for persuading people of your innocence < 1323975260 285701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it eventually got published with this cover: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/If_I_did_It_2.png < 1323975265 46574 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you just punch in the infohash, your client will use DHT. < 1323975265 810861 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The US's stupid double jeopardy rule < 1323975266 686629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:If_I_did_It_2.png to make ais523 happy) < 1323975281 517599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow the small "if" there < 1323975282 362694 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Everyone's convinced he actually committed it, anyways. < 1323975303 241992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "It was originally planned that the book would be promoted via a television special featuring an interview with Simpson on Fox Broadcasting Company. Fox and HarperCollins are both owned by the News Corporation. This special had the longer title, O. J. Simpson: If I Did It, Here's How It Happened. Like the original release of the book, the special was canceled." < 1323975317 968587 :boroda_!~boroda@178.177.17.22 PART #esoteric :"Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)" < 1323975344 163534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and he was eventually thrown in jail for something else, presumably? < 1323975362 354450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, by "presumably" I mean "based on what was said slightly earlier in-channel" < 1323975378 2234 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no double jeopardy. But he decided "Well if I got away with murder, I'll turn into a full-on gangster." and kidnapped and robbed and wtf dumbass. < 1323975540 506949 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the double jeopardy rule in the US is retarded < 1323975578 994765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just states that you can't be tried twice for the same crime, right? < 1323975676 799130 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1323975687 327018 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are two levels of stupid in it < 1323975706 821541 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, due to the principle of separate sovereigns, someone can be tried twice; once by the state and once by the federal government < 1323975723 218530 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the federal government can't, except by law, limit the states < 1323975731 871300 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second, it is interpreted as being absolute < 1323975750 586498 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can't be tried twice for the same crime in the same jurisdiction. < 1323975757 340014 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are acquitted, the government can appeal only by grounds that the trial was manifestly unfair (i.e. the judge or jury was bribed, or the like) < 1323975763 600150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not particularly stupid? < 1323975767 353378 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The government can't appeal on any other error of law < 1323975769 330374 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you commit the same crime in two states, congrats, you can be charged thrice. < 1323975777 539572 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323975813 166442 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, if you get an error in law happening you're basically walking away. < 1323975832 195608 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the police here *love* making those. < 1323975867 132208 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Canada, the government can appeal, but only errors of law since the jury is assumed to be correct in its verdict (which makes sense) < 1323975963 531115 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What really bothers me is that juries are instructed to only focus on strict matters of fact or law, even though in US court tradition and law, it's perfectly acceptable for juries to go "We find this law unjust; we find not guilty"... < 1323975968 982978 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323976035 177381 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: forget what the legal term for that is < 1323976046 85355 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a bizarre position in Canadian law < 1323976054 905878 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jury nullification. < 1323976060 967249 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323976074 198267 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Canadian law it is legal, but not a right of the defendent to have the jury informed of it < 1323976081 753843 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 100% legal in US law, judges just try very hard to get a mistrial if someone dares mention it. < 1323976095 739110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually, the lawyers for the sides select for juries who haven't heard of it < 1323976102 634835 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, that too. < 1323976103 746828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(having lawyer-selected juries is a little insane in its own way) < 1323976125 317285 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Don't they use the same process in the UK? < 1323976127 405061 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, if juries were *sane* they'd go for a random sample. < 1323976153 469961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: 12 random people plus 1 random alternate < 1323976158 361551 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323976160 561977 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can only be objected to if obviously biased, IIRC < 1323976164 857203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as being related to the defendant < 1323976169 15755 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's no preremptory objections? < 1323976175 757860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there might be one per side < 1323976179 815694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly nowhere as many as in the US < 1323976192 903583 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're unbound in the US, IIRC. < 1323976201 247689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden doesn't use juries except in a few special types of cases. < 1323976203 607590 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You basically have the lawyers *selecting* jurors. < 1323976210 795002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : What really bothers me is that juries are instructed to only focus on strict matters of fact or law, even though in US court tradition and law, it's perfectly acceptable for juries to go "We find this law unjust; we find not guilty"... < 1323976217 32540 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wikipedia tells me it was eliminated in 1988 < 1323976219 149164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc related to right of free speech stuff, then you get a jury in Sweden < 1323976221 157645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, not < 1323976230 452059 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but their *instructions* are to only focus on strict matters of fact and law. < 1323976230 628266 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The US doesn't use juries unless the defendent requests it, IIRC. < 1323976232 746357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that'd explain why I thought they didn't have it < 1323976241 265356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and they usually request that? < 1323976242 842301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Don't they use the same process in the UK? < 1323976250 618215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the jury instructions are also written by the lawyers < 1323976254 449568 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not really. < 1323976257 141073 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scots law differs significantly from English. < 1323976259 300239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, they tend to disagree a lot about what they should say, for obvious reasons < 1323976270 67871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see < 1323976270 284970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh right, I was talking about the England/Wales court system < 1323976275 650989 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have juries of 15, and verdicts are by majority, for instanc. < 1323976276 157637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's diferent in Scotland < 1323976276 622169 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scots law isn't even in the tradition of common law. < 1323976278 117043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instance < 1323976291 578416 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are 3 possible verdicts. < 1323976296 862884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :3? < 1323976297 652374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nobody cares Mr. Phantom "Waah Scotland matters" Hoover. < 1323976305 482864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guilty, not guilty, not proven. < 1323976310 227415 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it more distinct from English law than US law is. :P < 1323976312 715945 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Canada, it's 20 for high treason or murder, 12 if there is a prison term of 5 years or more on the line, and 4 otherwise < 1323976322 116009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what happens after "not proven"? < 1323976323 331884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, shouldn't it be "innocent" if there's another "dunno" one? < 1323976338 865109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hexham's near enough to Scotland for Scotland to matter to you, surely? < 1323976348 917345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably be at risk of invasion if the Scots ever cared to try < 1323976365 726013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I find this Scottish system quite interesting < 1323976382 380842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be literally no functional difference between not proven and not guilty. < 1323976402 109138 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote don't even < 1323976404 629173 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1323976407 165212 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's 'proven', not 'guilty'. < 1323976408 327417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote first! < 1323976410 750436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw didn't some party that wanted to separate from the UK win the Scottish election? Whatever happened to that? < 1323976411 207969 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :662) Also you steal Berwick from us and then say you don't want it? You stole it from us first! < 1323976413 497261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^ < 1323976417 397714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where all the warring goes on < 1323976433 106835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, indeed < 1323976444 463358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Berwick? < 1323976452 629109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's the SNP; their problem is that they can't make Scotland independent without a referendum < 1323976466 23762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the statistics indicate that if they try a referendum, which they can do, they'll lose it < 1323976472 759905 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323976473 749329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're trying to find excuses to not do it yet < 1323976482 606288 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be awkward for them < 1323976489 459548 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the heck would Scotland want to become independent, anyways? Near as I can tell, it's only to their benefit. < 1323976489 733551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, lose by how much? < 1323976494 571873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just waiting for more english pansies to die < 1323976496 730067 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the detriment of England, but hey. < 1323976497 244966 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323976501 243358 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, something something something oil. < 1323976509 47070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know, and you could look it up as easily as I could < 1323976509 351104 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also EU. < 1323976524 480867 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: EU? More like EUuuuuwwwwww, that's gross! < 1323976526 142124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I vehemently oppose the SNP because they want closer ties with Sweden.) < 1323976526 484198 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What, becoming a more proper EU member, or leaving it? < 1323976531 716650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I thought you might remember if it was a close thing or far from being likely. < 1323976532 734518 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the SNP wants Scotland to stay fully part of the Commonwealth < 1323976533 812101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, more proper. < 1323976536 356124 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit thundurus, why can't you be nice like kyurem was? :( < 1323976541 128396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think it's somewhere in between < 1323976544 604734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323976551 562576 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is good enough for me < 1323976556 106999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I still haven't caught kyurem yet; I need to manipulate it to perfect stats like I did with Zekrom < 1323976556 967360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote (I vehemently oppose the SNP because they want closer ties with Sweden.) < 1323976559 615701 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :765) (I vehemently oppose the SNP because they want closer ties with Sweden.) < 1323976559 791893 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A Commonwealth country, or a Commonwealth realm? < 1323976567 39792 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I vehemently oppose the SNP because they want closer ties with Sweden.) <-- they do? < 1323976568 54371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1323976568 380643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't know the difference < 1323976568 668512 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: RNG manipulation? < 1323976571 818375 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: of course < 1323976578 316714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only time I've ever used a Max Repel in a no-encounter area < 1323976579 913742 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: A Commonwealth realm has the Queen as monarch. < 1323976586 208733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to count steps < 1323976590 454459 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Commonwealth country is just a country in the Commonwealth. < 1323976594 737165 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought legend stats were generated in advance in modern games? < 1323976597 476851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in that case, I don't know the answer < 1323976600 366478 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : coppro: I still haven't caught kyurem yet; I need to manipulate it to perfect stats like I did with Zekrom <-- huh? < 1323976604 446578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemon? < 1323976610 116152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they can be, but the precise meaning of "in advance" differs from pokemon to pokemon < 1323976611 629297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1323976613 464959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323976615 640720 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1323976623 231770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of Zekrom, it's generated upon talking to it < 1323976631 537191 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by 'in advance', I meant game start < 1323976636 514018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, nowhere near that early < 1323976656 582130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's typically either the event where you encounter them, the event that makes them possible to encounter (i.e. adds them to the map), or beating the elite four < 1323976656 808186 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If they were to *just* seperate right now, then it'd end up being a realm... But it wouldn't be too hard to imagine Scotland also getting rid of its monarchy. < 1323976658 518767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds almost as if they wanted people to manipulate the RNG then < 1323976671 54991 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might do that in a future game; in this game, I'm not doing anything like that < 1323976678 369006 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Seems like it. < 1323976678 790669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they took deliberate steps to make the RNG more complicated in fifth gen < 1323976683 663649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ended up making it easier as a result < 1323976689 58331 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of randomness in the games. < 1323976689 235064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323976701 637098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant, why not just generate those stats on new game < 1323976705 847244 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (I vehemently oppose the SNP because they want closer ties with Sweden.) <-- they do? < 1323976706 29323 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : why? < 1323976709 486819 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: *whoosh* < 1323976718 8874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because then people would manipulate them on new game < 1323976721 715456 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that was not obviously a joke < 1323976746 921091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, trainer ID manipulation has been done on new game routinely in gen IV, because there, shiny flawless legendaries are impossible without particular trainer ID/secret ID combinations < 1323976750 752751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people manipulate for those < 1323976761 60863 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, but they can just manipulate it later now, and it is easier to check the results if you don't have to play through the whole game. < 1323976778 219205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you would have got it if you read his previous line < 1323976784 280714 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What resource do you use for the RNG? < 1323976792 727433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: depends on which game < 1323976807 157177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fifth gen, and various things that I can't otherwise handle in fourth gen, mono + RNG Reporter < 1323976814 914955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's the most complete program in that respect < 1323976831 525977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mono as in the .NET environment?! < 1323976838 500205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1323976842 865141 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because RNG Reporter is a .NET program < 1323976844 703011 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323976860 820477 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fourth gen catches, I use this: http://shaym.in/apps/iv_checker < 1323976863 472188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I wrote myself < 1323976889 355660 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean a resource explaining the systems < 1323976908 746711 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah; Smogon has some guides, and there are various YouTube videos < 1323976922 274478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find it best to understand how the game works, and then do the manipulation on that basis < 1323976929 781864 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323976942 480709 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence why I ask if you have resources explaining the mechanics < 1323976948 745913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume doing RNG manipulation on real hardware would be near impossible? < 1323976950 577956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the help information on the page I link explains how to use that page to do a flawless catch < 1323976958 967116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there would be various inputs that would be hard to control < 1323976961 762336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no? it's real hardware I do it on < 1323976974 191094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic point is that you only need to control one of the inputs, and just hold everything else consistent < 1323977007 782325 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? On something like a modern handheld system with wifi it would be trivial for the system to generate new random seeds every so often < 1323977021 230564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like /dev/random on linux does < 1323977025 30071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what if someone puts it on airplane mode? < 1323977038 971422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is exactly what I do for black/white RNG control, for exactly that reason) < 1323977046 172584 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, there are sure to be other sources of randomness. Clock drift between CPU cores? < 1323977062 27136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, indeed, but it only drifts between two values < 1323977067 634378 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1323977070 588237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just keep retrying until you hit the one you want < 1323977076 197661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323977084 217247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nintendo probably don't spend thousands of dollars on preventing RNG abuse :P < 1323977098 471257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they do seem to have been given an order "make the RNG more complicated" < 1323977101 190793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is < 1323977106 144966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you don't exactly need to spend 1000s of dollars to do these kind of things < 1323977106 453540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for trading, perhaps/ < 1323977107 220578 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1323977110 104680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wasn't so hard it wasn't cracked < 1323977115 483095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway aren't there any good, hard to predict RNGs? < 1323977117 349761 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes you do, you need to employ someone who could think of them < 1323977125 710384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably by tPCI, who don't really like RNG abuse in official tournaments but haven't found any way to ban it < 1323977131 473932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and then implement them < 1323977149 940888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are often reference implementations available for many < 1323977150 191407 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, I assumed tournaments gave you predetermined pokemans < 1323977155 559136 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess kids wouldn't like that < 1323977160 946142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, that'd defeat the whole point < 1323977163 464495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm talking about things like seeding with clock drift < 1323977169 93312 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tournaments are basically just advertising < 1323977169 930061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1323977183 742933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the seeding with clock drift seems to be a mistake < 1323977187 905883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323977192 546832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323977217 831950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in gen 4, it was seeded with the number of frames it took to dismiss the cutscene at the start of the game, which is a good entropy source (also the ones that players manipulated in practice, although it requires timing a keypress to 1/60 second) < 1323977219 923137 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323977220 476530 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your page doesn't explain things like 1, J, K < 1323977228 630300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in gen 5, the check was at the start of the cutscene < 1323977238 451291 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes it does, "which RNG method should I choose?" < 1323977243 360006 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323977244 743116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it isn't really hard to do. Read the TSC (for x86 that is, I assume there are/could be similar things for, say, ARM) on the two CPUs several times and use the differences to generate randomness < 1323977261 967133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why don't they just re-seed it, I don < 1323977265 104051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't* get it < 1323977276 216378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: from what? < 1323977283 278858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you realise that programmers at Nintendo are probably paid enough to make a few thousand in not all that long a time, right? < 1323977307 804087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the RNG seeding perfect probably comes considerably lower than "making a decent game" < 1323977311 79558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: besides, if the reseed interval wasn't /very/ fast, people would just do the catch before the first reseed < 1323977329 640765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, every few seconds sounds reasonable to me < 1323977334 173545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too slow < 1323977334 349676 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323977339 222342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? heh < 1323977348 786183 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it still doesn't really explain how they work though < 1323977356 785679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I would typically cause the stat generation to happen in the first second or so of poweron < 1323977361 50264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, if wifi is on, that is an obvious source. Also couldn't you passively listen to radio noise even in airplane mode? I thought the point of the airplane mode was to not /emit/ anything? < 1323977373 462902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not the way that the DS's antenna works, I think < 1323977379 820668 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1323977383 110534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would use power, wouldn't it < 1323977392 466845 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes, but you can't have everything < 1323977399 187131 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: better rng <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< decreasing battery life < 1323977402 99319 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1323977404 261442 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323977404 992343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it might be simplest if you just ask me, I don't think there are any good explanations around about what's actually going on that aren't terribly technical < 1323977405 549020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip one of those < 1323977406 635238 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1323977413 481877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could require wifi on in tournaments < 1323977422 532093 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i believe that is what he was doing. < 1323977427 835152 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: umm, what? < 1323977428 11437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we're talking about catching Pokémon before the tournament < 1323977428 670193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would solve it for that use case at least < 1323977429 589114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is done at home < 1323977433 427933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I see < 1323977443 246277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then what prevents you from doing memory hacking? < 1323977450 241690 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1323977459 547796 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm fine with terribly technical < 1323977459 903271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they try to detect that < 1323977462 931679 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, that's preferred < 1323977481 163889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't as good at detecting that as the people who do the RNG manipulation are, though < 1323977483 661727 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hard if you just modify the stats to the best plausible levels from rng trickery? < 1323977496 148164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what if the stats are valid, but couldn't be generated by the game's RNG? < 1323977508 398484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the RNG can't return every possible sequence of numbers, after all < 1323977522 751947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it can in Black/White, incidentally, by using two RNGs that go through seeds at different rates) < 1323977530 672696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323977544 408764 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to ensure that it would be possible with the RNG < 1323977551 608740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway how can you time it right? < 1323977574 349096 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gamers are freaks. < 1323977574 526366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: for 4th gen, this forum thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52180 < 1323977581 237665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ther's another thread in the same forum for 5th gen < 1323977608 948410 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked, the difference between the human speedrun and the TAS run of Super Mario Bros. was a few seconds. < 1323977616 403731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean if you use the current time in clock cycles or even in microseconds as part of the randomness when the value is requested you couldn't do it feasibly on non-modified hardware < 1323977628 487671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on average, how many tries do you think it takes someone who's been practicing for 10 hours to time a keypress to within 1/60th of a second, using any tools (metronomes, countdowns, etc) they want? < 1323977646 334156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 1/60th? really? < 1323977647 74252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the buttons on the DS are only read once per frame < 1323977650 317096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1323977654 820656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that is an issue < 1323977658 771785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the timing won't be any more accurate than that < 1323977663 82617 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would have assumed they gave interrupts < 1323977670 898700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? that's incredibly rare in games < 1323977675 496315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1323977678 916620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why would you expect consoles to support it? < 1323977686 580578 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wasn't aware it was rare in games < 1323977688 828521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it rare? < 1323977706 566211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, most PC games engine use a simple interrupt handler that makes it look like polling < 1323977713 942342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323977726 911294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and basically because most games have a physics engine that can only process input once a frame; the rest of the time, it's busy calculating motion on that frame < 1323977730 446689 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's much easier to do a while(1) {check_buttons(); update_state(); render();} loop than do interrupts. < 1323977741 890777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm is the PC keyboard polled or interrupting? I would assume at least the USB case is interrupting < 1323977748 258996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the PS/2 case < 1323977757 3662 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Interrupts. < 1323977757 273029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, to the OS level < 1323977758 509072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's interrupting, but the BIOS can make it look like polled < 1323977762 255593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323977779 479265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's up to the OS whether it looks at the BIOS or whether it overrides the interrupt table to get the interrupts directly < 1323977798 283020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most modern OS tries to avoid using the BIOS < 1323977818 433865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also using the BIOS presents some major problems from long mode iirc < 1323977837 794843 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, usually an OS just handles the interrupt itself. < 1323977846 373631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind long mode, you can't use the BIOS in protected mode < 1323977866 375676 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh okay, I thought you could do virtual 8086 mode then or something < 1323977872 956977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was called < 1323977879 846047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe < 1323977882 65269 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual 286 mode? < 1323977884 248225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :something anyway < 1323977889 65598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds more painful than rewriting the bios routines though < 1323977893 199404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1323977918 842475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtual 8086 it is called < 1323977922 563051 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc dosemu uses it < 1323977930 173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't work in long mode of course < 1323977952 186443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one of the few things in the "deliberately unsupported because I can't figure out wtf effect it would have" list in Web of Lies < 1323977978 32286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are the other things on that list? < 1323977984 570090 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Web o' Flies < 1323977988 367018 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no < 1323977997 181500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm trying to remember, now < 1323978001 210948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1323978040 209316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ptrace is probably the biggest one < 1323978045 557042 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1323978051 770997 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anything else? < 1323978056 190182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, modify_ldt, personality, lookup_dcookie, and unshare < 1323978057 606276 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323978073 590935 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never heard of those < 1323978089 416211 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323978098 610865 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I found personality was actually being used < 1323978115 506952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's only unsupported with certain arguments (which it silently replaces with different similar arguments in the hope that the system will still work) < 1323978145 56537 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323978145 726896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, after reading man page I'm surprised the first one even exists in user space. Wtf. And there is no EPERM or such in the ERRORS section either. What. < 1323978204 625106 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323978273 331791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I assume wol uses personality though? < 1323978284 173157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1323978284 967657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, stuff like ADDR_NO_RANDOMIZE looks like cut out for it < 1323978288 695436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to turn off ASLR < 1323978292 615821 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323978304 294979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what it does in other process's calls to personality is to add ADDR_NO_RANDOMIZE to the argument list < 1323978306 728833 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: ptrace is probably the biggest one < 1323978307 306897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether they specified it or not < 1323978313 274992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but how will you calculate weboflies' eigenratio? < 1323978315 799894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1323978322 538710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1323978325 903283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think I've even tried running it inside itself < 1323978345 607198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it causes valgrind to internal-error (I think even with valgrind on the outside) < 1323978345 823144 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:20:22: you-plural <-- i hear the technical term is "all y'all". hth. < 1323978350 293111 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is resaonably impressive < 1323978352 109805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reasonably < 1323978360 690855 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, modify_ldt must be root-only, surely < 1323978370 857476 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind in wol in valgrind? < 1323978386 177981 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes that was my reaction too. Then I looked at "errors" and I was even more wtf < 1323978398 768529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably just omitted < 1323978401 886515 :derrik!~xix@gprs-inet-65-27.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: left < 1323978404 509284 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully < 1323978404 799934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the LDT /is/ per-process… < 1323978420 238030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unsigned int read_exec_only:1; < 1323978420 431832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1323978426 73662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /must/ be unsafe to let you modify that, surely < 1323978429 221899 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unsigned long base_addr; < 1323978429 398277 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : unsigned int limit; < 1323978430 682921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially these < 1323978432 714891 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323978437 50513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1323978440 421962 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly unsafe < 1323978445 526832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it only permit valid values < 1323978460 116273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, look at the EFAULT description < 1323978480 628756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's if you specify the argument to modify_ldt as outside your own address space < 1323978488 978511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFAULT is what you get when passing NULL pointers to the kernel, or whatever < 1323978489 345564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right < 1323978515 114164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actual thing I have thought: "this thing just isn't fast enough, I wish it used exec() directly rather than the shell" < 1323978531 578172 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : EFAULT is what you get when passing NULL pointers to the kernel, or whatever < 1323978536 537392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there have been kernel bugs caused by failing to check this, btw < 1323978542 885585 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what type of bug doesn't apply to @? < 1323978548 413931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway modify_ldt looks to me as if it belongs in the same category as ioperm and such. That is the category of "oh god, who thought exposing this to the user space was a good idea" < 1323978587 902304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, I have to keep remembering to check EFAULT in weboflies < 1323978597 871306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm simulating a syscall myself < 1323978601 931320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323978654 202549 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is Web o' Flies totally non-secret now? < 1323978661 522801 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the code still a jealously-guarded secret? < 1323978679 527060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe I have a copy of it somewhere. Couldn't tell where though < 1323978684 416554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never ran it, it scared me too much < 1323978692 755898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still secret < 1323978697 154084 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a copy too, I didn't bother to get it to compile. < 1323978697 330300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this channel knows of its existence < 1323978700 596499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the source code is available on request < 1323978703 93936 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, come on. < 1323978708 918554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Tomorrow they remove the letter "m" from the alphabet <-- and in 9-10 days, they'll remove "l". < 1323978711 424704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it required root (for obvious reasons) and there was NO way I was going to run that sort of crazy stuff as root :P < 1323978716 375787 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write two lines of source code to do something nobody else has ever wanted to do, I release the source. < 1323978716 552255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, it compiles fine, but on most people's kernels fails with EPERM for reasons most people don't understand < 1323978717 209481 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it needs to be secret otherwise the effort is wasted < 1323978721 22478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it does nothing on x86-64 < 1323978730 361388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including me < 1323978737 874559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, that reminds me of an idea I had < 1323978744 906361 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but you can run 32-bit programs on x86-64 fine usually? < 1323978747 392798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of getting the control process to drop permissions entirely < 1323978750 13372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you say that doesn't work here? < 1323978753 134888 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it fails < 1323978758 818521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where does it fail? < 1323978762 583763 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why? < 1323978762 821199 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it seems to be 64-bit kernels that it fails on < 1323978764 965017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it to suspend them, and then set itself back to root where it fails < 1323978766 294024 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it fails on my x86-64 arch < 1323978768 803770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and works in a 32-bit arch vm < 1323978771 903397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /proc permissions < 1323978778 822017 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "huh" < 1323978786 177864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is bizarre < 1323978787 520197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep, the permissions of /proc seem to be not what we'd expect them to be < 1323978798 273866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they differ between architectures!? < 1323978798 699456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whenever I attempt to debug the problem, it starts working < 1323978804 834039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha < 1323978812 983498 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it just wants some attention < 1323978814 694873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I recommend using a 32-bit VM and solve all your problems that way < 1323978822 258626 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder if it works in qemu-system < 1323978828 210673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both the "crazy code as root" problem, and the "confuses 64-bit kernels" problem < 1323978838 672293 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : why would they differ between architectures!? < 1323978846 589985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, /proc/ needs architecture-specific info... < 1323978853 62146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right < 1323978863 649594 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/permissions/ changing is weird, admittedly < 1323978869 47936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323978882 328439 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure if there was an extra file or a file was missing. < 1323978891 440823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was the permission difference though? < 1323978904 483170 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /proc//fd failed to stop being owned by root on weboflies' complicated permissions drop < 1323978908 560108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: something was owned by root that should have been owned by woluser < 1323978923 980431 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1323978937 145862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *nobody :) < 1323978945 69662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a quick check of /proc/self/fd indicates it is owned by the user in the normal case. < 1323978951 688596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no shit < 1323978959 333752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does wol depend on that permission being like that? < 1323978961 666696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so why? < 1323978971 799750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it's trying to read its own procfiles < 1323978974 172667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and failing because it isn't root < 1323978975 632958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323979002 85561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the process was started as nonroot, by a process that wasn't root (but had been root at some point in the past) < 1323979007 637890 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds like this might be a kernel bug in either 32-bit or 64-bit < 1323979019 805250 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally, if you drop permissions and then fork a process, the resulting process can read its procfiles < 1323979021 925295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /me tests < 1323979026 676454 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit if anything, definitely < 1323979028 940618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, me testing is pointless, I don't see the bug < 1323979063 81849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: on your computer, try starting a root shell, then using su to start a shell as a regular user, then checking the /proc/self's permissions < 1323979074 741780 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it happen on a trivial test case? As in, doing the basic uid changing and forking and such but not all the other crazy stuff that wol does? < 1323979077 509726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sudo -s is root shell enough, yes? < 1323979088 159243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1323979095 176076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was /fd, btw < 1323979097 814662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just /proc/self < 1323979106 13200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, indeed < 1323979110 246418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that won't work, su forks a shell < 1323979117 197983 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rather, su execs a shell < 1323979118 511758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is forked itself < 1323979124 76813 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323979141 774484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the situation in wol is fork, drop permissions, exec < 1323979147 741454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that what su is doing? < 1323979156 959999 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, it probably doesn't need the fork < 1323979162 40707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see how it'd matter < 1323979178 593317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[root@dinky esoteric]# ls -ld /proc/self/fd < 1323979178 769829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 root root 0 Dec 15 19:58 /proc/self/fd < 1323979178 770006 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[root@dinky esoteric]# su elliott < 1323979178 770116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky esoteric]$ ls -ld /proc/self/fd < 1323979178 770225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dr-x------ 2 elliott users 0 Dec 15 19:58 /proc/self/fd < 1323979209 483979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ su - arvid /bin/ls /proc/self/fd < 1323979209 659927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ls: /bin/ls: cannot execute binary file < 1323979210 239040 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1323979226 339633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I missing here < 1323979236 556197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :plain /bin/ls works fine < 1323979247 932744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, where's PH? < 1323979254 399082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not here < 1323979259 809209 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how su works, that's how sudo works. < 1323979265 499546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, pinged out half an hour ago < 1323979269 319275 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :su - whatever -c 'command' < 1323979275 861350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 over 4, anyway :( < 1323979279 373412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I thought that was sudo < 1323979281 603786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1323979295 221035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo ls # Vorpal thinks this doesn't work < 1323979312 438973 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Arguments to su are arguments to the shell. e.g. bash /bin/ls < 1323979360 103405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1323979421 176486 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway an obvious way to generate randomness on a DS would be the ways you can generate randomness in wol < 1323979436 302500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy looping < 1323979447 49686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: busy looping doesn't create randomness in WOL < 1323979449 360377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just crashes it < 1323979460 630463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a DS is already busylooping the /game loop/ < 1323979466 313880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm good point < 1323979487 130656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, that trick only works with a preemptive scheduler < 1323979493 431647 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I doubt the DS uses < 1323979501 285494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do it on the other CPU, you're just measuring clock drift again < 1323979524 334471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so add a hardware clock alarm and check the instruction pointer when you get the interrupt. < 1323979530 369268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if DS has that sort of alarms < 1323979532 930599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know PCs do < 1323979569 942221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so, interrupt the game loop more often than every 1/60 seconds? < 1323979575 65458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds smart < 1323979597 60893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well on a PC it kind of would be hard to tell due to PCs being so fast. I guess it would be an issue on a DS though < 1323979615 576462 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the point is that you're saying "please interrupt the machine more than once per frame" < 1323979631 730864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and spend CPU time reseeding the RNG with it" < 1323979674 242094 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, interrupts on button presses would work though. Because that way you would only get those extra interrupts when the user is performing the action in question < 1323979691 428387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on the DS sure, but for future platforms < 1323979693 265206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which is again defeated by the user timing their button press... < 1323979708 961862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you can only time up to a certain accuracy < 1323979735 333220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how accurate are you asking the clock to be, exactly? < 1323979738 204957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if this would help or not would depend on how accurately you measure the time of the interrupt < 1323979750 78490 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323979756 330956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway, even if you can't time it to that < 1323979757 822174 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just keep trying < 1323979759 585802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know how accurate DS clocks are, but PC clocks can easily get down to microseconds < 1323979762 933497 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the clock is limited precision < 1323979766 315657 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : just keep trying <-- well yes < 1323979769 111348 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a limited number of bits of noise you can look at the lower end from < 1323979777 315276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just spend hours tapping the button every 1/n seconds < 1323979790 437188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for what it's worth, Pokémon Red/Blue are famously impossible to manipulate < 1323979797 844545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they care about every single keystrok < 1323979800 136702 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*keystroke < 1323979805 432621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: certainly, that sounds plausible < 1323979805 608606 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is like pudding farming then :P < 1323979809 863985 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they're apparently annoying to manipulate even in TASes < 1323979810 760178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think Vorpal's ideas for doing it are ridiculous < 1323979823 711389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to some details of the way it works < 1323979840 874303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: for what it's worth, Pokémon Red/Blue are famously impossible to manipulate < 1323979842 861243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so why haven't nintendo just doing it that way again? < 1323979851 797252 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that make them *impossible* to manipulate. < 1323979852 546219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't* < 1323979867 184845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, not actually impossible, but beyond anyone's ability < 1323979889 833479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : i wonder what properties of hexham inspire esolang <-- my guess is "intense boredom". < 1323979903 510968 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you live in /Trondheim/ < 1323979937 181565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and he is doing esolangs < 1323979945 995812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fits it < 1323979949 298621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so he can't diss hexham! < 1323979977 695707 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how boredom happens < 1323979982 151418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't think he was dissing it. Just trying to explain the reason for the observed data < 1323980000 898619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I'm convinced it is generated by buses < 1323980004 875642 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you didn't realise /that/ was a joke? < 1323980011 270915 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, stop being hopeless < 1323980013 491197 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't take it as one < 1323980037 435303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, or perhaps more accurately by bus stops < 1323980047 892925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, the reason is that the only time I ever get really bored is while waiting for buses. < 1323980054 368743 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323980059 833162 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres this effect whereby the grass is greener on the other side of the fence < 1323980066 280866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably the same would apply to trains, but I rarely travel by them. < 1323980072 535904 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it has a formal fallacy name < 1323980079 835625 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check < 1323980084 922408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, how is that related to bus stops? < 1323980094 436766 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get to that < 1323980166 623185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 173486/11446 < 1323980167 428616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 15.156910711165473 < 1323980167 891057 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that you don't know exactly when the bus will arrive. Except for the end station and some major interconnections the time it arrives and leaves at may vary with a few minutes. As in, it won't wait if it is a minute or two too early. < 1323980197 115547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to go to the bus stop like 5 minutes in advance, and then the bus may end up 5 minutes too late as well < 1323980199 380335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: trondheim is rather larger. < 1323980201 358954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have nothing to do < 1323980208 799326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus boredom < 1323980212 453014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, ^ < 1323980244 367647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the busy metropolis of Trondheim? < 1323980259 771391 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a side note, someone in a distant chatroom suggested to me that finland is very depressing and a bit of a gulag < 1323980277 816523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, "distant chatroom"? How do you measure distance between IRC channels? < 1323980289 543584 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said it was irc < 1323980300 112822 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric : on a side note, [...] finland is very depressing and a bit of a gulag | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1323980301 605238 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a bit like measuring uhh.. erdos number < 1323980304 880268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, even so, how do you measure distance between two online resources < 1323980307 614332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1323980338 763368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the distance to kevin spacey < 1323980370 747507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway they are connected by you, means it can't be that distance from this channel < 1323980375 556842 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the person in question is a troll who insists on finding fault with every country and religion < 1323980409 822822 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: turns out my kyurem is modest with 10 IV in SpA, 31 in HP, and 13 in Speed < 1323980415 405259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, well there usually /are/ faults in most things. You just have to compare the upsides to the downsides. < 1323980442 457526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what did you calculate that based on? < 1323980450 480363 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, err, modest with 10 SpA? that's not really ideal < 1323980466 817706 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just plugged it into a calculator < 1323980471 988077 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it isn't, but it could be worse < 1323980481 442455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it could have been Adamant < 1323980504 224492 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people who i have seen him harshly criticize includes: gandhi, dalai lama, des cartes, alan turing < 1323980533 943390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually i got around to ignoring the guy, even if he does make curious points < 1323980599 990291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did gandhi not support hitler or sth < 1323980621 144400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "des cartes"? < 1323980653 739996 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Missing those IVs is roughly equivalent to having a neutral nature and perfect IVs < 1323980659 985405 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION names his Starcraft II account "duh cart"
< 1323980661 1360 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :des cartes, the famous german philosopher < 1323980677 578262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: exactly, so you have all the speed loss of Modest /and/ all the special attack loss of Timid? < 1323980679 982677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's not to like? < 1323980686 209518 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1323980701 729392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously I watch sc2 games like every day. < 1323980704 8236 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, speed loss of modest? what? < 1323980714 278766 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. cartesian duality was his main gripe there < 1323980717 96850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, obviously he meant desc artes, a from of pop art. < 1323980718 746657 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: modest isn't +speed < 1323980725 976803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, your speed isn't as high as it could be < 1323980726 153283 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I see what you mean < 1323980728 280355 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a from of pop art < 1323980732 8928 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323980746 147179 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, form* < 1323980748 857282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right < 1323980752 662755 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i love finland :-s < 1323980761 520250 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i don't know anything about it < 1323980761 696803 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never been to finland. < 1323980768 311994 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it involves making speling erorrs < 1323980774 828712 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never left australia < 1323980791 524928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was simply triyng to get into the mood < 1323980796 492097 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you're australian? < 1323980799 254795 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW. < 1323980802 260060 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1323980834 511416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway what was that about bus stops and grass being greener on the other side? < 1323980849 6233 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you never got around to explaining it < 1323980853 80609 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im looking for a wiki page about the grass being greener phenomenon < 1323980880 148037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, but how is it related to being bored due to waiting for something and having nothing to do to pass the time? < 1323980935 933721 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get around to that eventually < 1323980944 259126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but surely there is a name for this damn phenomenon < 1323980953 795858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm extremely seldom bored unless I'm in such a situation. I generally find something to do even if I have nothing that I need to do. < 1323980964 982792 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The grass is always greener on the other side" suggests an alternate state of affairs will always seem preferable to one's own. < 1323981004 372240 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, well right. Often involves jealousy of the the neighbour's lawn? < 1323981008 74202 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1323981028 41845 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. but i suspect it is a natural psychological illusion < 1323981033 977840 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno the right word here < 1323981058 366140 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well I never noticed that sort of thing wrt actual lawns) < 1323981069 432804 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not an optical illusion of course < 1323981079 973834 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course < 1323981083 507509 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some level of metaphorical abstraction < 1323981084 809471 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be weird if it was < 1323981124 548969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway, yes the bus arriving is a better state of the world than the bus not arriving yet. Especially if it is very cold. < 1323981137 766491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like -15°C < 1323981140 746653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. its like saying on some given street, home X is more of a mess inside than home X-1 and also home X is more of a mess inside than home X+1 < 1323981162 648080 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1323981167 771455 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1323981197 188694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never noticed that really either. < 1323981201 283988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1323981201 925344 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1323981209 738926 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe your house isn't a pigsty like mine < 1323981214 481588 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1323981233 842199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. Sure there are a few unruly heaps of papers on my desk, and such < 1323981242 517666 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the occupants of your household don't generate waste and expect someone else to clean it < 1323981270 333564 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if such people could not get by day to day without paid workers < 1323981273 357225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, but apart from that I tend to keep it clean. Having it dusty is annoying. And potentially dangerous during the spring due to my pollen allergies < 1323981304 749092 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly birch) < 1323981315 701426 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what people don't realize is that social systems can break down as readily as mathematical systems < 1323981330 140903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like suppose i was to remove a single term of my choosing from a haskell program < 1323981349 538740 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could quite possibly have a cascading damage of the meaning of the program, right? < 1323981380 409676 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you even know haskell < 1323981381 614610 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably would give you something like "Not in scope: x'" < 1323981386 248911 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323981406 313420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i wont use haskell in my analogy < 1323981408 716685 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the most likely scenario is failure to compile. < 1323981412 109835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually it would quote x' I think) < 1323981413 930225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, indeed < 1323981426 331039 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can probably construct programs that would still compile, but would mean something else < 1323981430 684436 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: do you mean definition or subexpression < 1323981435 974623 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know < 1323981436 715937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i doubt it < 1323981443 692014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't shadow module functions in haskell < 1323981448 359425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without being explicit about it < 1323981450 308124 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its not clear the bizzare idea i am driving at < 1323981453 883364 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can a definition in a where clause shadow a definition in the main part of the file? < 1323981482 229008 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1323981483 402966 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1323981486 267250 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok suppose i was to make a pinhole in a gas pipeline < 1323981502 395155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you just remove a subexpression then yes. like x' = x + y transformed into x' = x < 1323981512 622006 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :over time the gas would leak and leak until the whole house is a bomb waiting to go off < 1323981525 888949 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah lag spikes < 1323981535 856593 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's not removing a subexpression < 1323981545 880301 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well okay < 1323981557 663787 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is literally removing a term though < 1323981560 691287 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x' = f x turned into x' = x removes a subexpression, doesn't it? < 1323981567 255084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, y there is a mathematical term < 1323981568 473809 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not < 1323981571 526443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's removing a term and an operator < 1323981575 962760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1323981579 431188 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh < 1323981582 632353 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, f is a subexpression, right? < 1323981586 433020 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit heres what im trying to say < 1323981602 962533 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, it's important to odorize the gas so that people will notice if there's a leak? < 1323981611 271475 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a highly stable system is probably more vulnerable to change < 1323981614 384859 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that more kids don't die? < 1323981625 602930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, ... no? < 1323981639 818839 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm this is gonna take a while :-D < 1323981643 186473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: that's the opposite of the definition of highly stable < 1323981648 347482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1323981655 555575 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion < 1323981668 890249 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what people don't realize is that social systems can break down as readily as mathematical systems < 1323981670 765340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nnnnno. < 1323981683 788568 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A highly inter-dependent system is unlikely to be highly stable? < 1323981688 450937 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what itidus21 wants to say? < 1323981688 712953 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, if you're talking about the kind of precisely engineered formal systems usually used. < 1323981704 718353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think that itidus21 lives in some horrible mirror universe. < 1323981723 507946 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are not all living systems highly inter-dependant? < 1323981726 455123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i think that itidus21 wants to make a profound observation. < 1323981734 23677 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Social systems are pretty redundant, and the complexity of the individual units gives them a lot of flexibility. < 1323981740 520969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I further think he is not managing to do so very well so far < 1323981749 278147 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i was not implying otherwise. < 1323981756 906527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay < 1323981767 30909 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats easy to say unless you are one of the mortalities in the exceptions < 1323981773 503849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The death of almost any individual can be recovered from with effectively no difficulty. < 1323981786 445262 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in Dictatorships < 1323981787 239237 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except from the point of view of that individual :D < 1323981794 375779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that individual cannot recover < 1323981799 391483 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that's the almost. < 1323981801 858683 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that doesn't count when looking at the whole system < 1323981802 853798 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we're talking about the entire society here. < 1323981841 896102 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok now we're getting closer to my mistakes < 1323981846 65981 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even in a dictatorship the death of the dictator can frequently be recovered from. < 1323981851 169373 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: itidus21 was referring to gradual collapse, I believe. < 1323981858 384080 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But look at North Korea. < 1323981869 406441 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They survived the death of a dictator; it strengthened the dictatorship, even. < 1323981887 607830 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A poorly designed dictatorship, then. < 1323981892 429077 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323981898 557027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1323981905 696141 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, any poorly designed anything might not account for the possibility of individual death < 1323981920 717760 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: itidus21 was talking about stable systems. < 1323981934 523373 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont quite know what i am talking about.. < 1323981939 143156 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty insane < 1323981952 841137 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1323981956 401518 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO 'insane' equal to 'stupid'. < 1323981962 884071 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1323981963 121173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: finding a formal term for "the grass is greener on the other side" seems impossible < 1323981967 346912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, a /definition/ of a stable system is one that doesn't radically change due to a "small" input. < 1323981970 149712 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I feel bad now.) < 1323981974 979448 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as the death of a person < 1323981979 707605 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, just call it the envy fallacy. < 1323981980 806175 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and you should feel bad! < 1323981982 745852 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :north korea's dictator is dead? when did this happen? < 1323981990 793318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: 1994 < 1323981992 725095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, the old one. < 1323981994 818585 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, the father of the current one is dead, I think. < 1323982020 469041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, of course a three-person system might very well fail from the death of one person, but then I would argue that is a huge input. After all 33.33....% percent of the persons in the system died. < 1323982030 589822 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) i am bad at communication. 2) i spawned 2 topics in my weird rant just now < 1323982044 505523 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... uhhh < 1323982051 619897 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i can still derive value! < 1323982052 629660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in a 100-person system say? then 1 person is 1% of the population. Not likely to fail from that. < 1323982074 177508 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do i mean by grass is greener... lets see... < 1323982081 985421 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill explain carefully now why i even brought that up < 1323982091 54862 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, large inputs, such as a Gamma-Ray Burst, can destroy any social system < 1323982100 17040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm istr something about things collapsing in france after king louis 14 because he had made all the decisions personally < 1323982111 785630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm likely to disconnect. I'm moving cables. < 1323982114 491353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was no one skilled enough to take over < 1323982130 229555 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose that someone lives in a depressing home for some reason.. i dunno what reason.. it could be the people are assholes < 1323982143 429708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Is this hypothetical Based On A True Story. < 1323982150 389924 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. < 1323982159 948026 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best hypotheticals are! < 1323982170 333659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of... < 1323982175 583451 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. < 1323982178 710372 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all Assholes, sir! < 1323982185 981955 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok uhm < 1323982205 291916 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1323982215 124445 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : and there was no one skilled enough to take over <-- oerjan, that wasn't a stable system < 1323982216 510167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1323982222 676552 :Vorpal_!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster NICK :Vorpal < 1323982229 403631 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was in africa, while they have to worry about food and drink, i have to worry about assholes < 1323982236 120280 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is, Vorpal < 1323982242 752545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that king louis 14 counts as a very large input < 1323982257 923531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well okay < 1323982261 309678 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when faced with assholes everyday it is actually not that hard to imagine that the african food and drink would win in the cost-benefit < 1323982283 771302 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where this fallacy really breaks is that in africa a person is probably just as likely to meet more assholes < 1323982308 263419 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so living with assholes could be compounded with poor food and drink < 1323982346 94706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ergo bus stops,. < 1323982365 373251 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I think the best example to explain what a stable and unstable system means to itidus21 would be a physical example. Take a plank. Make a hole in one end. Hang it on a horizontal rod. Now it is stable. Rotate it so it is balanced above the rod. Now it isn't stable < 1323982365 551685 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bus stops don't sound that bad < 1323982380 683534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: So you don't actually have a bus stop-related point? < 1323982389 976711 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is so bad about busstops? < 1323982399 364896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Well, the point is that Vorpal was talking about bus stops being boring. < 1323982400 563213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how any harm can come to you on account of busstops < 1323982407 354119 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure poor food and drink would lead to boredom < 1323982407 534961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you tried to relate it to the grass is always greener on the other side. < 1323982410 240215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why /r/math has far more activity on "things which mathematicians do" than actual maths.
< 1323982411 266365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoyance sure < 1323982413 136948 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see how busstops can bore a person :D < 1323982414 170268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not boredom < 1323982426 90532 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what if assholes are gathered at the bus stop < 1323982430 902713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, it does when you wait for a bus that is 3 minutes late < 1323982431 82195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because most people aren't mathematicians? < 1323982435 963599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have nothing to do to pass the time < 1323982452 950526 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Of course, large inputs, such as a Gamma-Ray Burst, can destroy any social system < 1323982454 482162 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1323982466 539399 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those capitals are like a stab to the eye. < 1323982479 847923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : probably more, actually, as good duelists would be able to get away with almost anything, so would be more litigious <-- istr this actually being a problem in medieval iceland < 1323982483 556991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that sort of situation, is really the only time I ever get bored < 1323982486 489616 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Go Look At Some X-Rays. < 1323982488 985175 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's a) wrong in this context and b) doesn't even explain the content. < 1323982489 337165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, otherwise I tend to find things to do < 1323982489 687590 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so while one waits those 3 minutes, its as if one is being poisoned.. and it takes hours afterwards for that poison to dissipate? < 1323982495 831633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Gamma-Ray Burst are Sgeo's favourite metal band! < 1323982501 367953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, no? Where did I say that < 1323982509 154061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noted for their social upheaval! < 1323982538 360608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: (a) Do you really think most /r/math subscribers are mathematicians? (b) People who aren't mathematicians don't understand most mathematics. < 1323982551 360955 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm being way too literal about the busstop thing :-D < 1323982567 149484 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :metaphorical bus stops are the best bus stops, after all < 1323982568 167058 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you just said " i wonder how boredom happens" < 1323982582 755800 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my answer was "while waiting for public transport and having nothing to do to pass the time" < 1323982597 522085 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :j,, < 1323982600 68084 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^hmm < 1323982600 583089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, to me that is basically the only times when I'm really bored < 1323982610 413994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't live in hexham < 1323982614 481517 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1323982620 599595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but I live in a pretty small town < 1323982635 694985 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are always books to read, or web pages to browse or stuff to code or whatever < 1323982646 890621 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when waiting for the bus < 1323982648 755301 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a lot of it was about growing up < 1323982655 716574 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: (a) Do you really think most /r/math subscribers are mathematicians? (b) People who aren't mathematicians don't understand most mathematics. < 1323982656 435092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with roaming duelists seeking out weak people to challenge < 1323982663 509295 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sounds like your town consists of only your house < 1323982669 66409 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : with roaming duelists seeking out weak people to challenge < 1323982670 563205 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dualists < 1323982675 453281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well, 20 000 inhabitants iirc. < 1323982686 830901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, still, meh. I'm an introvert. < 1323982689 399679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's the plot to Des Cartes II: Des Harder. < 1323982708 34864 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sounds like a bad porn movie < 1323982717 871087 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best porn movie?? < 1323982722 118994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : what i'm imagining is that if i was in finland i might find it easier to focus and concentrate for some reason < 1323982738 767573 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the grass is greener effect i actually specifically had in mind < 1323982743 965788 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you putting des cartes before the horse??? < 1323982752 648418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : with roaming duelists seeking out weak people to challenge <-- wait, where was the *start* of that sentence? < 1323982763 376320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hi < 1323982775 570265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is oerjan just a extremely slow typer? < 1323982777 763714 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :typist* < 1323982780 818138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe?) < 1323982783 388932 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that social circles tend to replicate themselves in a persons life < 1323982789 932948 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i just had an afterthought < 1323982797 703661 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what was the context for it < 1323982802 108574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first part is about a page above < 1323982804 783638 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its always the same kinds of people filling roles in each others lives < 1323982805 278147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is not on my screen < 1323982826 482192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, sure, and? < 1323982827 333891 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that no matter where you go, that same social circle will form around you < 1323982827 510492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : probably more, actually, as good duelists would be able to get away with almost anything, so would be more litigious <-- istr this actually being a problem in medieval iceland < 1323982840 584565 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't escape it simply by travelling :-D < 1323982851 821897 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and why would you want to? < 1323982852 299530 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by crossing the fence :-s < 1323982853 851047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I thought for a while you actually meant dualist, imagining that as being some category of mathematician < 1323982861 619874 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, off-topic still, but I think you should watch Puella Magi Madoka Magica. < 1323982864 510309 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1323982867 766632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I like my friends and family < 1323982871 213414 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hi < 1323982872 177171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323982886 554854 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :roaming around and challenging people's ideas < 1323982909 541535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind) < 1323982918 946400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thats all you need in the world. you've won the game. < 1323982929 42565 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323982937 93112 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, oh also, I'm waiting for windows to boot atm, I'm not bored because of the slow disk making it take ages. I'm annoyed however. But meanwhile I'm chatting here on my laptop < 1323982942 679669 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i have this theory that a person can't in the game so easily. < 1323982956 604997 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something else must be eating away at you if your social life is in order < 1323982961 11657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1323982973 57935 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, that's probably what I was really thinking about < 1323982973 925210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, I'm about to suffer severe time dilation and being-ripped-apartness. < 1323982981 693726 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see you... on the other side... < 1323982984 600874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, well there was that skeleton in the cellars (true story) < 1323982984 837732 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the VORTEX < 1323982985 109400 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1323982993 827091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Professional duelists used holmgangs as a form of legalized robbery; they could claim rights to land, women, or property, and then prove their claims in the duel at the expense of the legitimate owner. Many sagas describe berserks who abused holmgang in this way. In large part due to such practices, holmgangs were outlawed in Iceland in 1006, as a result of the duel between Gunnlaugr Ormstunga and Hrafn Önundarson,[2] and in Norway in 1014." < 1323982996 974425 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: vortex of fluidity? < 1323983000 218875 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, It was a bird skeleton. < 1323983001 646581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: YES. < 1323983005 635984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1323983011 563323 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean for "me" what "I" need is to like my family and friends < 1323983015 157229 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vortices only make me think vortex based mathematics sorry < 1323983025 872944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im sucked in :( < 1323983027 228143 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluidly < 1323983031 602197 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1323983031 785564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1323983043 640632 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you'll be back < 1323983053 547037 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: That's what they told me yesterday. < 1323983065 530239 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1323983114 30643 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it sounds like time to consult the i ching < 1323983123 87247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: How can I do that from inside a vortex???? < 1323983125 814010 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no internet! < 1323983135 822140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's not true. < 1323983142 35841 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it only connects me to this channel and one website. < 1323983143 92311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: tame the vortex, then use conflict to get it to engulf you anyway < 1323983145 203480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry.. i have the book.. it doesn't matter if i don't exist < 1323983147 966948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the glitch is known as Crassworm's Hotel < 1323983159 330846 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That sounds unethical. < 1323983162 845883 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter that i don't know how to use it properly < 1323983184 178920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323983186 445646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1323983192 23596 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323983199 659823 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we have a random number generator in here? < 1323983200 505492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is a glitch there? < 1323983209 324047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 7 < 1323983210 509620 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what does that result in? getting no damage? < 1323983216 545048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take the ring of conflict off, yes < 1323983222 43368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1323983222 380286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, it's mostly only useful on Air < 1323983222 556565 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no wait.. i need it to be in the 1 - 64 range < 1323983227 674689 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 7 is < 1323983229 219736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, useful yes < 1323983230 907429 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1323983242 529457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by the time you get there, vortices do such pitiful damage that you can heal up inside them even without using the glitch < 1323983257 10181 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ok a second number from 1 to 6 < 1323983277 717562 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 7 < 1323983303 350188 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print (int (rand 6) + 1) < 1323983304 188865 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1323983305 589287 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1323983306 970210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : do we have a random number generator in here? < 1323983309 292645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: there you go < 1323983310 741040 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 3d4 + 9d9 < 1323983310 926838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d4 + 9d9 => 44 < 1323983314 416097 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a pair of numbers... the first being from 1 to 64 "7" .. the second number being 2 < 1323983323 758854 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323983324 276175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 to 64 "7"? < 1323983325 108319 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7, 2 < 1323983333 294268 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i use 44 or 7? < 1323983338 309744 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 64 < 1323983345 791073 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 7 < 1323983347 160427 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use q < 1323983347 732142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: does the number need to be /random/, or /arbitrary/? < 1323983352 401500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if random, I suggest you use an actual d64 < 1323983357 690492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d64 < 1323983357 949918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d64 => 6 < 1323983360 56912 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1323983362 834420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: 6, 2 < 1323983370 92450 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1323983376 358644 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1323983377 417895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d1 < 1323983377 599523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d1 => 1 < 1323983378 508146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d1 < 1323983378 705594 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d1 => 1 < 1323983379 893053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323983400 986902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : and by the time you get there, vortices do such pitiful damage that you can heal up inside them even without using the glitch <-- not if you go for low score? < 1323983416 522396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: teleport them away afterwards, I guess, still doesn't cost score < 1323983418 338628 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so just to make this clear for me.. the number in the range of 1 to 64 is 6, and the number in the range 1 to 6 is 2, right? < 1323983422 580675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1323983425 419705 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: er < 1323983428 935691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you're going minscore, you're going to be doing the planes with pets and/or a tooled horn < 1323983433 881057 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d64 < 1323983434 59962 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d64 => 61 < 1323983434 746905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d6 < 1323983434 952215 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d6 => 2 < 1323983436 752486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: there you go < 1323983437 692200 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes < 1323983441 975224 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: assuming those ranges are inclusive < 1323983448 359005 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup inclusive < 1323983462 112044 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so 61 and 2 < 1323983494 187334 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1323983503 337133 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you know what is true, you do not have to hide your own strength. You will earn the trust and admiration of others even though you have done nothing to seek it. < 1323983514 958673 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323983517 601810 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323983529 234909 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323983529 805075 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you go < 1323983538 973095 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :use this to de-vortex < 1323983569 734463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think this random selection was fair overall, as there wouldn't have been a rethrow if the first numbers hadn't been ambiguous which were which < 1323983571 682115 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no elliott < 1323983601 427714 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a cheap shitty i ching book. i am not using it by any proper means < 1323983606 964665 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip elliott, killed by stack overflow 1995-2011 < 1323983609 641959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the vortex shall consume us all < 1323983637 898913 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip us all, killed by stack overflow 1995-2011. < 1323983640 396485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: sheesh, you could at least throw a coin per line :P < 1323983651 54235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except monqy he's too young to be one of us < 1323983651 281915 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i threw out the coins in the rubbish < 1323983662 643004 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :during a weird phase i went through < 1323983668 507076 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is 4 < 1323983669 824324 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yearso ld < 1323983695 152654 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: suffice to say the chinese would love PRNG if they had one back then < 1323983706 588682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, what distinguishes yearso from other linkers? < 1323983708 396090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : rip us all, killed by stack overflow 1995-2011. <-- I assume you mean the site? It tends to be quite terrible. < 1323983709 591778 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually im 6 or 2 but today i can make exception < 1323983712 612959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i'd be shocked, except i once threw away a die for an equally weird reason. < 1323983728 321323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would so call the linker I'm currently writing yearso if giving it a silly name were appropriate, but it isn't; at the moment, it's imaginatively named "linker") < 1323983753 358467 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, humans throughout the millenia have invented all manner of natural PRNGs < 1323983769 831545 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do die count as PRNGs? < 1323983770 614539 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's fun < 1323983775 414961 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323983791 403242 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about really big coins < 1323983794 571263 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323983799 319003 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't flip it it's too big < 1323983803 326952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, they're imperfect RNGs, but aren't pseudorandom by any sensible definition < 1323983807 912176 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's debatable whether you can ever get rid of the P in our physical universe < 1323983818 485146 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am agreeing with oerjan < 1323983838 864820 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, if we ignore small-scale quantum randomness... < 1323983845 453942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a probably foolproof definition of "PRNG" is that it's possible to reseed it < 1323983847 934217 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which presumably does not have much of an impact on die. < 1323983851 117390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the physical universe can't be reseeded < 1323983854 149831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if there _is_ any truth to divination, you probably cannot. < 1323983857 637127 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: hmm, what distinguishes yearso from other linkers? < 1323983860 444278 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know quantum mechanics < 1323983876 697003 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't have a sufficiently funny response to this, but i want to acknowledge it as a good question < 1323983876 874329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: no, they're imperfect RNGs, but aren't pseudorandom by any sensible definition <-- if the state of the world in the area that can affect the die is taken as seed? < 1323983883 694236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well ok if the pseudo means entirely predictable rather than imperfect. < 1323983884 539331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and Yearso is a good name for a company < 1323983887 733833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1323983889 560844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: modulo the fact that it's unclear how to pronounce it < 1323983901 463276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious how to pronounce it apart from the s < 1323983904 894226 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nature itself a PRNG? < 1323983916 83582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: if anything it's a non-P RNG < 1323983925 297028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's true randomness at the quantum level < 1323983939 661254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see e.g. HotBits, which generates true random numbers by monitoring radioactive decay < 1323983942 457408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : rip us all, killed by stack overflow 1995-2011. <-- should i be scared? i also made my first SO comments just days ago. only 11 reputation so far, though. < 1323983960 395986 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or is there? (many-worlds etc) < 1323983964 265447 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: such talk is not conducive to escaping the vortex < 1323983971 746038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you are mistaken < 1323983974 274373 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...escaping the vortex? < 1323984004 993015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the interpretation doesn't matter, what matters is that the universe /we/ observe is truly random < 1323984011 328576 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the elliottonian vortex is related to the matrix of solidity < 1323984017 761042 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. even if many worlds is true, we're still /deciding/ random decisions with a true RNG < 1323984028 35709 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1323984035 251601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's true randomness at the quantum level <-- as far as we understand the universe currently at least < 1323984037 379873 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, it could be that it's a PRNG with a seed with more bits than our universe < 1323984042 267703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would be indistinguishable, I think < 1323984046 970540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could all be emulated < 1323984055 753109 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (a) I believe it is generally accepted, (b) that's the point. < 1323984059 158778 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or could it all be a function of our collective wills? < 1323984060 53755 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323984066 378793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : the elliottonian vortex is related to the matrix of solidity < 1323984068 544338 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vortex of liquidity < 1323984076 687096 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, ...what? < 1323984086 145374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO!! I WAS AWARDED MY FIRST SILVER BADGE!!! < 1323984088 46188 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP YOU DEMONS < 1323984100 952514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :determinism and non-determinism are part of the universe < 1323984102 107816 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1323984104 278352 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to answer on SO once < 1323984110 234166 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just ignore them < 1323984114 863833 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually answer the question though, and my answer was deleted < 1323984123 47638 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job < 1323984128 220810 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have made a comment on the question or something, I guess. < 1323984137 281722 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't so. should i? < 1323984145 647647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it could be a PRNG is generating all the quantum randomness for an emulated universe < 1323984155 217482 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the sgeo story < 1323984157 647609 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :things happen because you make them happen < 1323984166 290298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not with an insufficient number of bits, I don't believe < 1323984175 654052 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am also open to the idea that things are deterministic < 1323984176 503548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it could be done by using some of the universal state /itself/ < 1323984182 134084 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., sufficiently far away state < 1323984184 390674 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't know exactly < 1323984185 867923 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as i am not forced to stick to that view < 1323984186 493591 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask oerjan :P < 1323984190 777071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, does anything work with an insufficiant number of bits for the task at hand? < 1323984202 641277 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a dice doesn't roll itself.. a human rolls it because a human wants a random number < 1323984204 913649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you are misinterpreting me < 1323984218 847827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there are theorems in complexity theory that say you can make a PRNG of one complexity class that cannot be distinguished from true random by one of a lower one. P and LOGSPACE being one example, iirc. < 1323984220 260289 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, unless the die is on the ground on a sufficiently windy day? < 1323984227 302307 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: by my very limited understanding of quantum mechanics, a "boring" PRNG is ruled out. < 1323984236 266320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perhaps it counts as a hidden variable? dunno) < 1323984245 29565 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1323984246 410700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well okay < 1323984257 39249 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :die only rolls because of something happening in humans thoughts like "make dice" "roll dice" < 1323984259 25811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know enough about quantum mechanics either < 1323984265 521785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you may be right for all I know < 1323984267 200601 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: isn't that just The Secret < 1323984277 327957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka one of the worst books of the millennium so far < 1323984285 535855 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the secret < 1323984294 115857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book) < 1323984294 818949 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think he's either doing that or trying to get at a "What is a die" thingy? < 1323984303 852653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr "believe you're healthy and YOU WILL BE HEALTHY IT'S MAGIC!" < 1323984306 605451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"also rich! and famous!" < 1323984307 818070 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, OUR MINDS CONTROL REALITY OTHER THAN BY TRIVIAL WAYS < 1323984310 831418 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a cube of plastic or wood... < 1323984320 666579 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what's a true random sequence? not produced by an algorithm? < 1323984323 578259 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good buk < 1323984323 754284 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has ink on it < 1323984328 976823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well of course they do < 1323984333 850381 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it controls your body, for one < 1323984341 742561 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's what I meant by trivial. < 1323984348 762948 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote a person, "fsvo trivial" < 1323984371 118673 :NihilistDandy!~ND@stu-99-155-171-184.champlain.edu QUIT :Quit: http://haskell.org < 1323984378 772539 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem of the butterfly effect is that the impact of the butterflys wings is "uncontrolled" < 1323984388 392708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-10 IN 2.5 < 1323984394 880534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am undone :( < 1323984400 845322 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1323984403 231014 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1323984410 260979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Vortex measurements. < 1323984426 605977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the latest ones are available at http://tinyurl.com/dxuq5eo < 1323984476 12257 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry to all the mathematicians for my very unmathematical comments < 1323984480 850807 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, the butterfly effect is just about the system being chaotic < 1323984488 824642 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the butterfly has a mind < 1323984494 485019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323984494 682856 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it flaps its wings with its mind < 1323984499 200849 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he's got a point!! < 1323984501 577392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that is not what the butterfly effect is about < 1323984513 612264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the term butterfly effect has a precise meaning < 1323984518 387078 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im... really... fucking annoying to argue with < 1323984529 563273 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1323984533 362053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: erm a sequence of independent, equally distributed elements; if it's infinite then with probability 1 it cannot be produced by an algorithm since those that can are countable... < 1323984534 980776 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaves falling don't have a mind. < 1323984542 490721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you just described people like elliott and me there < 1323984547 89339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it's not really an argument, it's more just everyone else trying to explain to you < 1323984548 309418 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elevator malfunctions don't have a mind. < 1323984552 244603 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1323984555 211009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is that too < 1323984570 257730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elevator Malfunction is Sgeo's second-favourite band. < 1323984594 668391 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone died in an elevator malfunction recently :( < 1323984618 65914 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not for us to unravel the secrets of the will, the will-not, conciousness, transcendance, determinism, non-determinism < 1323984621 973301 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so how do you run the algo, obviously no finite segment of it tells you anything about the distribution < 1323984624 567699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Thousands of people just died in recently < 1323984634 955375 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or do you only care about the elevator malfunction ones < 1323984640 451876 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's not for us to unravel the secrets of the will, the will-not, conciousness, transcendance, determinism, non-determinism <-- why not? < 1323984648 875410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because itidus21 doesn't know how to < 1323984649 126183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can always try < 1323984666 404406 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, elevator malfunction was just the most immediately accessible mindless cause that could be said to have a butterfly effect < 1323984675 942697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I was responding to Someone died in an elevator malfunction recently :( < 1323984680 159391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to be fair, neither do I know exactly how to do do that completely. Won't stop me from giving it a try though < 1323984682 399910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smarter people than us have tried.. it ends up in teaching people the virtues of not stealing < 1323984691 355084 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1323984695 43276 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, car crashes are the most accessible horrible death to me for some reason, but they're mostly ... I think mindless would be the wrong word < 1323984712 593243 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I was explaining why elevator malfunction was so accessible to my mind < 1323984716 47577 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: More mindless than an elevator going wrong? < 1323984716 223773 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mindful. < 1323984724 856054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do _i_ look like i've read the proof? < 1323984727 132925 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more notmindless < 1323984731 89110 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1323984732 734363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Car crashes have thinking involved being responsible at the time of the accident. < 1323984746 838119 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elevator malfunctions are probably mostly due to unthought mistakes far in the past. < 1323984753 91544 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.Z < 1323984768 416503 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was thinking of elevator malfunction as more mindless < 1323984774 45320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1323984785 42599 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say everyone should ride horses or horse-and-carts... for various good reasons.. except accelerating population leads to CBDs that everyone has to race to < 1323984798 795417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Q.E.Z.? < 1323984802 196514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the evolution of the home-office may well be the devolution of the car < 1323984802 787909 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1323984810 181522 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't say Q.E.D. when oklopol's around. < 1323984810 365788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, QED I know the meaning of < 1323984813 441822 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be nice if noone needed an office anymore < 1323984813 850705 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I'd say everyone should ride in computer-controlled cars. < 1323984819 232629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? So what does the Z stand for? < 1323984819 570734 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1323984827 720604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why can't you say QED? < 1323984830 966416 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more human drivers. < 1323984832 972938 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people could re-distribute themselves across the world via the internet < 1323984837 299328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Either zemonstrandum or zarathustra. < 1323984840 265790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why drive when you can tele-commute < 1323984847 788430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, problem: driving is fun. < 1323984855 519565 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, fuck fun. < 1323984857 554893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : smarter people than us have tried.. it ends up in teaching people the virtues of not stealing <-- scientific progress means that it doesn't matter how smart the ancients were, they didn't have access to the _tools_ to solve the questions. < 1323984858 172203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Cool, it'll be like public transport but less efficient. < 1323984864 573204 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck fun :D < 1323984869 201872 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more expensive and polluting (fuck fun, right?). < 1323984876 575184 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, won't stop people from complaining loudly. < 1323984887 214344 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1323984914 956423 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my comment about grass is greener very much applies to interplanetary travel < 1323984929 193117 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we already know we'll fuck up every planet we visit if we visit them < 1323984934 210543 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how would it be like public transportation? < 1323984944 307133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: Cool, it'll be like public transport but less efficient. <-- less boredom < 1323984956 599310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: In that it's a massive investment and overhaul and people who drive currently won't like the idea of it? < 1323984964 324243 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, at least there is less waiting involved < 1323984966 936469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a good thing < 1323984980 918949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Waiting is basically a function of how much money you put into the system... < 1323984983 326496 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, part of a reason to do interplanetary travel is if something happens to one planet, humanity goes on. < 1323984992 945444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for public transport? Hm. < 1323984994 866371 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, good trains are way faster than even auto-driven cars could go. < 1323985006 735242 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although sure, the psychology is different. < 1323985016 494579 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they can't go everywhere that auto-driven cars can. < 1323985025 922471 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as into a driveway. < 1323985032 825398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, certainly they are faster, but less convenient if you don't live near a train station. And yes the psychology is indeed different < 1323985035 380630 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" what i'm imagining is that if i was in finland i might find it easier to focus and concentrate for some reason" .. same thing we as a species imagine about interplanetarry travel < 1323985044 965830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So fuck fun, but don't fuck a little bit of walking every now and then? < 1323985061 235194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's also a function of money. :p < 1323985087 493202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, the areas where public transport can't go are the areas where it would be much more difficult for auto-driven cars. < 1323985097 137266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very few can afford having a train station built right next to your house :P < 1323985099 799254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to less-defined/lower-quality roads, less mapping, etc. < 1323985122 53779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's called public transport; the government is the one paying the money here. But yes, taxes would increase quite sharply if everyone got that. < 1323985133 375215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1323985143 389779 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway trains are less reliable here in Sweden < 1323985146 775490 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, the primary barrier to public transportation at least *here* is a function of population density. < 1323985159 98232 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The train stations should rent out electric cars that run on tramline-type things that go to your doors. :p < 1323985164 657864 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You couldn't really keep a train station afloat here. < 1323985169 104362 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just put the coins in the slot, get in, get out, and it zips back. < 1323985169 743123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the lesson is that we as a snow-heavy land should NOT buy trains from countries that don't have much snow < 1323985181 719499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, well, the solution is to live somewhere less terrible. < 1323985183 151204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just end in tears < 1323985199 640230 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: TBH, for local transport I'd tend to prefer underground rail. < 1323985202 848761 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people did away with skyscrapers and central business districts and did everything over the net, it would surely reduce traffic considerably < 1323985212 695864 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long-distance transport can have nice fast overworld lines. < 1323985215 54681 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: it wouldn't take much more to get self-driving cars common. < 1323985231 935220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am pretty sure most people would not buy self-driving cars unless they had no choice. < 1323985232 578656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get internet connection as a tax write off < 1323985245 575641 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/Especially/ anyone over the age of 35. < 1323985268 54579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not cost effective outside bit towns < 1323985270 751993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cities even < 1323985278 565654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I doubt there is a Hexham metro :P < 1323985280 929058 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The currently extant ones require mapping of the roads. < 1323985293 28917 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Do you want to bet on how much money goes into road construction and maintanence? < 1323985297 36514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :big* < 1323985307 573176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite a bit. But tunnels are expensive < 1323985308 699159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention the money accidents cost. < 1323985309 776416 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more so < 1323985313 210665 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public healthcare and all that. < 1323985319 905923 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323985349 663574 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you seriously think people drive because they want to control the vehicle? < 1323985352 891154 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck no. < 1323985362 736599 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They drive because everything's too far to walk to. < 1323985371 390151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1323985393 444438 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think itidus21 may have said this before, which makes me feel weird, but: Just _one_ accident with an auto-driven car, and we can say bye-bye to the dream, probably. < 1323985398 490709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there are those who find driving fun. Why else would there be driving and racing games. < 1323985408 52511 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you seriously think most people would be fine ceding driving control completely to a computer... then I really don't know what to say to you, but I invite you to go up to people on the street and ask them. < 1323985414 149215 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, but they're not a significant factor in adoption of automatic cars. < 1323985421 771809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1323985422 880135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially literally anyone who sees driving as a competition. < 1323985481 480697 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323985567 509374 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're talking about people who do shit like put on makeup while driving. < 1323985582 203114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That... does not even remotely come close to being a rebuttal. < 1323985675 996195 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is: given driving habits here, it's basically inevitable that people will have automatic cars and use them pretty much of the time, just so that they can do something during their half-hour commutes. < 1323985732 450372 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that they already risk their lives *dramatically* just to do that... < 1323985765 955723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I wouldn't trust a computer to handle everything when driving. For large roads sure. But when parking on a uneven non-surfaced (I mean, grass) parking place out in the middle of the woods? < 1323985772 66135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I done that < 1323985782 404315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when going to stuff like tourist attractions < 1323985784 946172 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log automatic car < 1323985798 306425 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fairly small case, though. < 1323985800 509729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or during bad winter weather < 1323985806 633361 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, have I not previously expressed my scepticism that you still don't understand the pluperfect. < 1323985810 381809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not in Sweden. We don't put asphalt everywhere. < 1323985813 432591 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-09-13.txt:21:08:08: "hygienic" macros which take automatic care of naming conflicts < 1323985821 424319 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1323985826 506297 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs automatic car < 1323985829 219533 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's still a fairly small case. I mean, how often do you park? < 1323985834 829267 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.32433 < 1323985841 798123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, every time I drive into the garage? < 1323985846 676947 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. :P < 1323985853 630905 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-05-14.txt:00:42:11: The safety concerns of an automatic car need to be compared against human drivers. < 1323985861 866888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I probably park several times per day < 1323985864 645029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Wait, you want automatic cars /with manual override/ control? < 1323985865 989795 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's, what, 2 minutes of your drive? < 1323985868 818589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hm perhaps what will happen is that cars get the ability to drive automatically or be controlled as you wish, and then gradually people will stop controlling their cars due to the convenience? < 1323985870 767328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*override control/? < 1323985893 799047 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you discussed it 7 months ago apparently :) < 1323985894 991185 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It would be somewhat necessary, at least given some of the broken infrastructure around here. < 1323985905 173077 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is like a more advanced cruise control < 1323985910 563320 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Great, so now people will override it whenever there is, e.g. a car in front of them! < 1323985914 912418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm fine with < 1323985920 455935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then expect the system to continue working correctly even though they massively wrecked the parameters for whatever reason. < 1323985931 615648 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it's about ten times as hard to write the software and has absolutely no safety benefits. < 1323985936 847684 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET IN < 1323985991 19101 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe anti-collision features could only be overruled at low speeds. < 1323986006 210590 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Says the man who hasn't seen a country where literally everybody drives. < 1323986006 721768 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway the problem is it takes a HUGE amount of work to handle every situation. And if it doesn't and lacks manual override, then it is worthless < 1323986018 759029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I am sceptical that the systems are so "modular". < 1323986034 784229 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think a lot of it is essentially generated based on real-world driving data. < 1323986039 654182 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think Google's was quite like that. < 1323986059 824312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You realise a shit ton of driving goes on in the UK, right? < 1323986102 806914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Anyway, I'm not sure how an anti-collision feature could still interact with manual driving. < 1323986108 862814 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You automatically swerve if you try and drive into a car? < 1323986124 691949 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds... easy to backfire. < 1323986173 452064 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ~90% of the population commutes via car? < 1323986194 696703 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you have sourcse for that statistic? < 1323986199 91014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sceptical, just curious. < 1323986232 680624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also, 90% of the population, or 90% of the working population? < 1323986241 637195 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=commuting+in+the+US&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.census.gov%2Fprod%2F2011pubs%2Facs-15.pdf&ei=F23qTuSCLpPqgAeK2_CKCQ&usg=AFQjCNEdBXyfZTDYeUlAGmNhrO7KBiBFfw < 1323986251 677935 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMMIT GOOGLE < 1323986271 856477 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the URL, not the "spew your shit on top of it" URL. < 1323986287 930065 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/acs-15.pdf < 1323986314 210160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Car is ~75% of commuters < 1323986319 889427 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In UK < 1323986320 283437 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's driving alone. < 1323986322 787334 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Citation: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lmac/commuting-to-work/2011/commuting-to-work---2011.html < 1323986326 235271 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Right. < 1323986347 638190 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other highlights: "Workers took an average of 25 minutes to get to work". < 1323986410 284941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the UK is small < 1323986436 895186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However if you don't think we have large, high-traffic roads with frequent jams and all that, you're crazy < 1323986455 281981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just utilise road transport a bit less within cities < 1323986484 122652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Especially London, but that's because road transport in London is basically impossible, from what I gather.) < 1323986485 821751 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :small? 25 minutes is like the whole day :o < 1323986488 118035 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323986508 966768 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it took me 25 minutes to go to work, i would not go to work < 1323986511 338244 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That's one way. < 1323986527 166646 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i represent the majority as usual. < 1323986588 79132 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, ~2% of the population in that study had a 90 minute commute. One way. < 1323986620 321153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, that was a US figure? < 1323986627 348995 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like riding a bike through finland every day < 1323986653 978141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because UK figures are 1-15 min: 42%, 16-30 min: 33% < 1323986662 372752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not like US commutes are significantly longer. < 1323986675 312848 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, that was a US figure. < 1323986697 205510 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can also expect to drive for anything else you do. < 1323986698 324129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNS7AtliBFM < 1323986700 599330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS RIVETING < 1323986701 785812 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, groceries. < 1323986715 979910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, pikhq, our supermarkets, too, have carparks. < 1323986730 383424 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: Anyway, I'm not sure how an anti-collision feature could still interact with manual driving. <-- you still get unpredictable parameters, what if a suicidal pedestrian throws himself in front of a car, and the distance is too short to brake. < 1323986736 813289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact is that for the US it's "everyone" and the UK it's "a lot of/most people". < 1323986741 138674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I live well inside the second largest city in Scotland, and almost all of the groceries in this house are brought here by car. < 1323986750 116167 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like we're some utopia of everything being in walking distance and the rest being perfect public transport. < 1323986768 924496 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that would be like Monaco, (walking distance) < 1323986772 418548 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: Anyway, I'm not sure how an anti-collision feature could still interact with manual driving. <-- you still get unpredictable parameters, what if a suicidal pedestrian throws himself in front of a car, and the distance is too short to brake. < 1323986778 988942 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You think a human operator would do well there? < 1323986784 4490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no < 1323986794 78888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I think an automatic car would do just as badly < 1323986801 613923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. So it doesn't matter. < 1323986807 285382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the same, so it's irrelevant. < 1323986823 444142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323986823 620773 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course more people would be upset if an automatic car did it.) < 1323986829 591065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1323986847 565709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Reboooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo*NO CARRIER < 1323986854 599558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also, I doubt that's a fairly common method of suicide. < 1323986872 668010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also what would an automatic car do if it was a question of "save pedestrian" vs "save people in car" < 1323986872 971799 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's a pavement, then it's probably in an area where a car banging into you would not be fast enough to kill you. < 1323986887 310310 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Reliably* kill you. < 1323986891 519426 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, yes. < 1323986898 784997 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I very much doubt an automatic car can reason about moral situations, dude. < 1323986911 611123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like a pedestrian in front, too short distance to brake, but you could still change your course. Except this is a cliff road and there is a deep drop to the side of the road... < 1323986943 495566 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, also what would an automatic car do if it was a question of "save pedestrian" vs "save people in car" < 1323986944 409947 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[...] the largest Asda Supercentre with a nett sales floor of over 120,000sqft." "Walmart Supercenters are hypermarkets [...] with an average of about 197,000 square feet." < 1323986947 585778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do *people* do? < 1323986955 624283 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I imagine it would swerve; it's probably not very easy to detect drops like that, and obstacles are not that easy to distinguish from one another. < 1323986958 482559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, save themselves, if they have time to think about it < 1323986964 649887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wow, that's a difference of a whole 50%! < 1323986966 264662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Kill both :P < 1323986973 881196 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Also comparing largest with average. < 1323986976 261539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a human drive would NOT swerve in that case. < 1323986976 986160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh shit, our supermarkets are smaller! < 1323986978 519091 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That so matters. < 1323986980 308758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least probably not < 1323986981 981171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Who cares? < 1323986986 774282 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :∎ < 1323987004 658871 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If humans are our benchmark for how a car should drive, we're gonna get really shitty self-driving cars. < 1323987010 297043 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. < 1323987015 113447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well if there are like 3 people in the car and one pedestrian, the automatic car would have taken a worse decision. < 1323987017 731686 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If this is a cliff road, where the fuck is the pedestrian coming from? < 1323987025 259114 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :∎ < 1323987035 554491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, could be a suicidal one? < 1323987048 630850 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway that was just an example. You could construct other scenarios like that < 1323987049 488403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think you understand how cliffs work? < 1323987061 280573 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, save themselves, if they have time to think about it < 1323987069 824033 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also pigs would fly if they had time to think about it. < 1323987086 271162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do pigs live busy lives, usually? < 1323987096 49265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, they might swerve due to panic. Or they might be aware of the drop and not swerve < 1323987107 68979 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure most people would swerve. < 1323987117 69011 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They might hit the brakes. < 1323987120 135682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that. < 1323987121 324619 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that cars have brakes? < 1323987122 860463 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1323987136 402621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, wait. < 1323987136 720405 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway there is such a thing as braking distance < 1323987139 326636 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what the automatic car should do. < 1323987145 429693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fly? < 1323987150 71927 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking fly too < 1323987156 238458 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should swerve, but then swerve even more, so that before it actually falls down, the air propels it back on to the road going the other way. < 1323987158 283249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. motherfuckers. < 1323987159 929887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Z. < 1323987166 951735 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But that would be good too. < 1323987167 765388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323987177 740290 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just swerve and everyone inside would go "NOOOOO" and then the wings would come out the side and it would fly off into the sunset. < 1323987187 627546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1323987189 527005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orchestra plays uplifting music, etc. < 1323987196 458784 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still waiting for my flying car < 1323987197 316900 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :credits roll < 1323987199 462411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1323987202 122087 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE END appears. < 1323987209 158891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actors get lots of money, Oscars. < 1323987214 797575 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what uplifting music would be appropriate? < 1323987230 345200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't know, you know the kind of music that always plays when things go well for once in a film and it's near the end. < 1323987235 332957 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be impossible to get people to see the lives saved by auto-driven cars. < 1323987239 930144 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, benny hills theme < 1323987245 529360 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is always appropriate < 1323987253 919228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not that one. < 1323987260 148804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, are you sure? < 1323987261 329916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1323987263 450397 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1323987263 832139 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like you can put in a paper "This person was almost in a crash, but thanks to being in a computer-controlled car, survived" < 1323987272 13675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, aww < 1323987280 190927 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's funny because you think papers convince people? < 1323987282 931101 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, "This person was driving drunk. Nothing of consequence happened" < 1323987284 95582 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just slap something by Two Steps From Hell over it; that's what they're there for, after all. < 1323987288 543621 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, news media does. < 1323987295 565434 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :moral of the story drive drunk < 1323987306 495806 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, not driving < 1323987308 9155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm not sure what/who that/they is/are. < 1323987312 761315 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the driver seat of a car" < 1323987326 986608 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nothing bad happened, because the car wasn't driven by the person, but rather, a computer." < 1323987336 267638 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting < 1323987358 167757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't news < 1323987365 349740 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, exactly my point < 1323987367 109357 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the age of twenty, Sgeo begins to suss out how the news works. < 1323987375 349098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, heh < 1323987380 8118 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm 22. < 1323987388 430709 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo is 22??????????????????? < 1323987392 979784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323987401 155567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1323987403 170820 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1323987403 771070 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, it's amazing, and then you think about it and feel sad. < 1323987417 479116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he was younger than me < 1323987418 221851 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you saying that news media actually causes people to change their strong preconceptions. < 1323987418 397954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1323987420 724317 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because hahahaha. < 1323987430 148708 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Bow before your elder! < 1323987442 125976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm equally old < 1323987451 685919 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What month were you born. < 1323987456 551750 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if someone hears about accident X more often than they hear about accident Y, even if accident Y is more common, they're going to be scared of X < 1323987463 161442 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? < 1323987464 647848 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo being older than Vorpal is somehow odder than him being older than me, elliott or monqy. < 1323987466 668219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay maybe he is older < 1323987471 534030 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because what month was Vorpal born. < 1323987473 792593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes < 1323987479 66138 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :May < 1323987480 931725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the current month < 1323987482 289896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1323987490 540301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1323987492 463746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except not this instance of it) < 1323987504 676048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1989-12-01) < 1323987530 67707 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I thought he was like 20 or so < 1323987537 767104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was 20 two years ago. < 1323987540 928980 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 is also old < 1323987545 849659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I meant about now < 1323987563 516072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have trouble imagining sgeo not being a kid < 1323987569 260521 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help :( < 1323987576 305671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, um, how do you word a ping on a bug report this guy has been ignoring me for 6 days ;_; < 1323987577 241427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, aren't you a kid too? < 1323987578 625629 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iird < 1323987580 4729 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still treated like a kid >:( < 1323987580 180872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc* < 1323987584 25702 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm a kid oops < 1323987586 528757 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's because you still act like a kid. < 1323987587 116059 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, what do you know, you're 15. < 1323987589 279127 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is because you act like one < 1323987591 1689 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, snap < 1323987594 716688 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Ping" < 1323987601 423698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :snop < 1323987604 240428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: THAT'S IMPOLITE!!! < 1323987607 100790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: splinpers < 1323987627 668059 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-216.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323987636 653828 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: a bit obnoxious maybe < 1323987669 250457 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-157-122.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323987704 950077 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, my last comment was many paragraphs long and basically said "rather than minorly breaking API compatibility, fairly majorly break it and this works brilliantly" :P < 1323987723 262960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although "fairly majorly" is relative, since the relevant consumers of this API are like 15 lines long maximum.) < 1323987747 736099 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok, you've moved the bug into the "wait for the perfect solution to become clear" state < 1323987754 26860 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :this state has no possible next state < 1323987756 234446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I made it very clear. < 1323987760 962971 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It got into that state and then I solved it the next day :P < 1323987807 332808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Help how do I ping. < 1323987834 672750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ping what? < 1323987852 486628 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway I believe it is net_adm:ping(atom_for_node_name) < 1323987853 685020 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1323987871 985464 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;__; < 1323987876 992609 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ping https://github.com/basvandijk/monad-control/issues/4 in particular :P < 1323987886 438554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you ask me about github? lol < 1323987891 898196 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use github < 1323987894 543019 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"YOU DARE SPEAK TO ME OF GITHUB" < 1323987905 833922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not it is just that it is pointless to ask me < 1323987907 173829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was in fact bothering everyone to tell me how to politely ping a bug report. < 1323987909 545155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't use it < 1323987911 408382 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :GitHub is irrelevant :P < 1323987940 731072 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no matter how well you explained the issue it's not to you but to the maintainer it needs to be clear < 1323987941 433524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "WHY ISNT THIS FIXED YET" is a favourite. Remember the caps and the missing ' < 1323987955 485339 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ISN"T THIS FIXED YET < 1323987957 23899 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good too < 1323987957 535630 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously your solution is flawed because it wasn't his idea :) < 1323987962 529976 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Pah :P < 1323987965 508408 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn;t this fixed yet. a classic. < 1323988030 572639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, also WHY ISN*T THIS FIXED YET < 1323988039 480991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works better on Swedish keyboard < 1323988047 689599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for me " is shift-2 < 1323988062 589656 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/basvandijk/monad-control/issues/4#issuecomment-3170203 < 1323988063 762666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS DONE < 1323988070 370803 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM SO RUDE < 1323988192 447600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1323988202 788344 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rude... < 1323988203 309814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: undef in list context is () right? < 1323988218 106413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: im < 1323988219 150024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: no, it's (undef) < 1323988219 593193 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rudest :( < 1323988224 124118 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: auuuuughweiurhwiuerh < 1323988225 456691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a list with one element, which is undefined < 1323988230 232008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1323988233 970321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: if you're thinking of a function return value < 1323988234 146474 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323988237 610440 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: have you considered you're doing it wrong if all these details matter to you < 1323988238 742685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of undef < 1323988243 549303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "return" will return () in list context or undef in scalar context < 1323988246 183594 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no. < 1323988261 899923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the most common reason that matters (a list with one element is true, scalar undef is false, and you might be trying to return a false value) < 1323988272 248248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no I'm thinking of undef as returned by an error in a block eval. < 1323988292 318985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. so I SEE THE PROBLEM. < 1323988318 155913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: list context eval returns () on error, I just checked the docs < 1323988332 97194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the question about "undef in list context" is irrelevant because eval doesn't return undef on failure, but false on failure < 1323988336 921384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, insignificant details such as "values" involving other insignificant details such as "being returned from functions" < 1323988357 258770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmmm, okay. < 1323988389 280353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's plausible to think "I want to use eval but don't know what it returns on error in list context, and it matters because I might get an error" < 1323988398 174234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact,I didn't know the result myself; I just looked it up < 1323988400 761125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/, / < 1323988405 933327 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems like kallisti went the extra mile and just assumed :) < 1323988434 206664 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no I read the docs but I must have missed that. < 1323988469 1685 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have a block-eval whose result is passed to a callback, and according to perl's debugger the callbacking is receiving a 1, though I'm pretty sure the only possible return values are either () or a hash. < 1323988469 566377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: perldoc -f eval < 1323988477 170350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very confusing to me. < 1323988493 701115 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you passing the block-eval to the callback? < 1323988501 787869 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :directly. < 1323988507 896054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :list context. < 1323988517 201719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in callback (eval { ... }) ? < 1323988524 841905 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :$callback->(eval {... }) < 1323988559 600149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm guessing what I think I should be returning is not the case? < 1323988567 411666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh another caveat: eval returns (undef) on a syntax error < 1323988584 85588 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm checking $@ and getting no syntax errors. that also wouldn't explain the 1 < 1323988588 752842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it returns () on a syntax error in list context < 1323988621 665178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the docs open right now, they say that quite explicitly < 1323988627 171860 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1323988633 45339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: YOU SUCK < 1323988636 425707 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is a syntax error or runtime error, or a die statement is executed, eval returns undef in scalar context or an empty list--or, for syntax errors, a list containing a single undefined value--in list context < 1323988640 285230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: me too < 1323988642 550933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, eval { syntax error = } is a compile-time error < 1323988647 127950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is 5.14 docs though. < 1323988650 580849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whereas eval "syntax error = " is a run-time error, for obvious reasons < 1323988652 309338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1323988661 703166 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hmm, it's changed since 5.10, then < 1323988666 829873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite a breaking change < 1323988676 745509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed. also it doesn't apply to me. < 1323988689 311920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should start using the docs on his system instead of web docs.
< 1323988709 182400 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it later goes on to explain how people think this is a bug or something. < 1323988714 618262 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should be fixed etc < 1323988725 901390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl has no bugs, it implements Perl perfectly < 1323988727 309791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition < 1323988733 854072 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: BLAH BLAH BLAH < 1323988749 124225 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has bugs then. < 1323988749 300657 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no bugs in perl, only documentation bugs. < 1323988763 702877 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Perl is defined as whatever perl does. < 1323988768 671275 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes < 1323988792 795952 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-216.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There cannot be bugs in a definition. Merely stupid definition. < 1323988801 94216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay fine. < 1323988901 193372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. duh. < 1323988922 369597 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what happens when you try to program all day without eating food first. < 1323988925 436049 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and misread debugging output. < 1323988998 702229 :copumpkin!~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1323989062 13684 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it would be interesting if perl had a sigil that deferred context. < 1323989077 469110 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't like... a coderef. < 1323989086 818286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would be equivalent though, since it would have to be lazily evaluated. < 1323989110 729969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words. my ?x = somefunc(2, 3); < 1323989113 863576 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't enforce a context < 1323989124 347745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1323989126 420816 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :until ?x is evaluated elsewhere, and the context it's evaluated in is used instead. < 1323989132 823668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes, it'd have to be lazy < 1323989138 990928 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically equivalent to a subroutine I guess? < 1323989140 165335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would that be interesting? it seems mostly useless < 1323989244 531752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. It would be useful with my current callback scheme instead of enforcing list context on the result, but it may be possible with coderefs or maybe even regular subroutines. < 1323989296 38252 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I store the callbacks result in an array, print errors as warnings, and then return the list. < 1323989318 827523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, well it's basically impossible to check for warnings < 1323989334 978327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without knowing the context, because can possibly change the computation drastically. < 1323989344 296206 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+context < 1323989356 737434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, it's irrelevant. < 1323989374 93727 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1323989538 408223 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :o hai < 1323990638 247929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1323990639 227098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1323990659 997982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how pretty much every freelance copywriter says "lol I have 120 WPM" < 1323990668 534397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, the standard lie. < 1323990687 419006 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, who knows maybe every freelance copywriter ever has the exact same typing speed. < 1323990744 35883 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the context of all of this weirdness is that I'm writing code to dynamically load plugins for an IRC bot. < 1323990756 707992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's done now. may need a few tweaks in the future though. < 1323990796 909731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the dynamically loading part has been long done. this was specifically for calling subroutines within dynamically loaded plugins. < 1323990800 75022 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn how ghc-api works < 1323990833 997474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why not just use Module::Pluggable or the like? < 1323990838 832276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I forget exactly what it's called) < 1323990847 163940 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... because I didn't know it existed. :P < 1323990857 546257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you assumed a piece of Perl code didn't exist on CPAN? < 1323990860 527870 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you /stupid/? < 1323990891 533573 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's don't is inspired by a module on CPAN, right? < 1323990915 719328 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Acme::Don::t < 1323990987 371074 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1323990992 236661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme::Don't should work as well < 1323991066 356079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acme'Don't, too. < 1323991155 601516 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I've already written the code now so... :P < 1323991165 719551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE LESS DEPENDENCY, YEAAAH < 1323991195 72703 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was a learning experience, etc, other things to ensure myself that the effort wasn't a waste. < 1323991199 433161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: does Haskell's don't work by somehow redefining '? < 1323991205 368608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: x' < 1323991205 544706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in some entirely unrelated way? < 1323991213 946254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does it do do-notation? < 1323991215 358330 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (translation: are you expecting ' to be invalid in identifiers?) < 1323991215 865579 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ' is valid in identifiers < 1323991226 516422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah, right, forgot < 1323991227 761704 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/acme-dont/1.1/doc/html/Acme-Dont.html < 1323991232 690880 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just a function, there's no special don't notation < 1323991239 129518 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "don't do" < 1323991241 353926 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't $ do { blah} < 1323991242 24120 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's hard to understand about that? < 1323991259 235337 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nothing, except I thought maybe ais523 was expecting don't blocks < 1323991315 760384 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm kind of mystified by how Pluggable works. < 1323991332 715012 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it magically gives you a plugins method? < 1323991332 985782 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I, to be fair < 1323991335 810404 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do doesn't work, right? < 1323991339 727835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never tried to use it < 1323991356 23009 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tried passing in a do block to something once without $ and it didn't work < 1323991358 770657 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might be misremembering < 1323991394 195455 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, it doesn't < 1323991396 484538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how easy this argument is to resolve, right? < 1323991419 322485 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were arguing? Although admittedly, it's two seconds to check < 1323991422 722663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const do { interact id } < 1323991423 569379 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `do' < 1323991434 116102 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id do { return "Hi" } < 1323991434 865998 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `do' < 1323991439 612795 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id $ do { return "Hi" } < 1323991440 452308 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show (m [GHC.Types.Char])) < 1323991440 628376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use ... < 1323991440 870858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const $ do { interact id } < 1323991441 644344 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall b. b -> IO () < 1323991441 820536 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also do fun with caller that might be difficult to reimplement with Pluggable < 1323991443 388351 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1323991447 714398 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPDATE < 1323991449 252145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so apparently the $ is required < 1323991465 528266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for example, the command subroutine, which registers new commands, uses caller to associate modules with each command, so that when a plugin is unloaded the commands are unregistered. < 1323991469 316494 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sgeo: no, it doesn't < 1323991474 949789 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't an argument, I was providing the answer < 1323991475 875450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, something I was thinking about; do you consider "let main = interact f" unsafe? < 1323991485 199097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's very unsafe, since it's invalid syntaxc < 1323991487 517740 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*syntax < 1323991493 705992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, correcting for me not remembering Haskell < 1323991496 964193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any safe f? < 1323991500 455192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's exactly as unsafe as getContents < 1323991508 857866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: same with "filter" which is like command except that it uses an arbitrary regex instead of a command word (commands are implemented with filter) < 1323991511 512041 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's pure, personally < 1323991517 894597 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"safe" is too much of a value judgement for me to want to comment < 1323991526 481813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lazy IO has well-known subtle-but-deadly performance problems < 1323991528 598158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right; you'd called unsafeInterleaveIO unsafe earlier < 1323991540 689947 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very easy to force too much, and space leaks are practically unavoidable. < 1323991541 651938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assumed you had some definition of "safe" in mind, and wanted to get at it < 1323991551 422377 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, anything starting with unsafe is unsafe :) < 1323991561 918526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was going to put "unsafe" into the name of <<= < 1323991573 975512 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x unsafe<<= y < 1323991574 151680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let unsafeId = id in unsafeId < 1323991574 885953 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1323991575 62655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1323991578 447335 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let unsafeId = id in unsafeId 2 < 1323991579 153456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1323991582 836620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: unless kallisti defines it. ;) < 1323991588 661326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but decided not to, as the way it's going all Feather's predefined operations seem to be made entirely out of punctuation marks < 1323991593 649016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may make an effort to change that < 1323991655 630852 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laziness even without IO also has space leaks. My understanding is that it's generally handwaved away since it's easy to make those cases stricter. But why not the same with lazy IO? < 1323991809 617434 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: another thing I do that I'm not sure Pluggable does is I change the current working directory to the plugin directory. < 1323991820 499114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then change it back. < 1323991832 361230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it does that, mostly because it doesn't strike me as being a good idea < 1323991842 296810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: your comparison is mistaken < 1323991861 463150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it is. the plugins can refer to their files without having to worry about paths. < 1323991941 530302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that's ridiculous < 1323991949 536296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal scripts and modules can't do that, why should plugins? < 1323991959 208932 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should provide scripts a way to get at a filesystem storage, instead < 1323991973 806680 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably by passing them a path somehow < 1323991979 618201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*provide plugins < 1323991986 881497 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-053-101.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1323992024 279840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: normal scripts can't do what exactly? worry? < 1323992030 645822 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for one thing, lazy IO's unpredictability has real effects < 1323992038 89802 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8A908.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1323992041 198512 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :plugins should because not worrying about things is better than worrying about things. < 1323992044 878507 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for instance, if you writeFile something, there's no guarantee it will ever be closed (!) < 1323992049 228613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: can't assume they're run in a certain directory < 1323992110 295657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there is basically no way to make lazy IO work. the same is not at all true of lazy evaluation < 1323992288 97142 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they can't? they can usually know exactly where they're being run from. < 1323992305 767424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I understand. < 1323992319 749123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please tell kallisti that perl programs don't usually change directory to the directory they're in < 1323992336 34659 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't they? < 1323992339 297256 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the drawback? < 1323992345 768930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: user-specified files will make no sense < 1323992353 414643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without knowing what directory they're specified relative to < 1323992357 760645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty common use-case < 1323992360 721581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : why wouldn't they? < 1323992364 629249 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they do, they have to do it themselves < 1323992367 764683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perl interpreter doesn't do it for them < 1323992370 422360 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's a terrible idea < 1323992373 689163 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly with your bot < 1323992377 397373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case user's don't specify filepath inputs, so it's not an issue. < 1323992393 1841 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-048-109.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323992428 208657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: also, you're ensuring that state can never be decoupled from implementation, filesystem-wise < 1323992430 908652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, you know, stupid < 1323992511 57040 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm ensuring that every plugin runs in its own bubble and doesn't have to worry about where its state is.. < 1323992534 258662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: most obviously: what if the plugin isn't in a writable directory? < 1323992538 636351 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why do plugins have to store their own state, anyway? < 1323992548 432524 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just let give them a persistence handle < 1323992550 565623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if two people want to use the same plugin? do they have to copy/symlink it? < 1323992556 24879 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably looks like a tied dictionary of some kind < 1323992566 132940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this is Perl, you can say "hash" < 1323992571 111168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not a bad idea. < 1323992583 883386 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a hell of a lot of a better idea than changing directory every time you invoke a plugin < 1323992593 937939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not a filthy commoner! < 1323992601 698899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it works pretty well right now actually. :P < 1323992619 298962 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, -30 in 0.28{3 recurring} :( < 1323992622 619040 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still plugins may have state associated with them that they'd like to transfer between bots. < 1323992626 735910 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, a quote database. < 1323992644 642085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I agree the persistent hash is a good idea. < 1323992649 485957 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why does the tied hash solution not permit that? actually, it should just be a tied object < 1323992650 578620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might end up doing that for some things. < 1323992655 833713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, why not just persist the plugin object itself? < 1323992664 887157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :push @self->quotes, whatever, I don't know perl; < 1323992671 137492 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$self->karma{$user}++; < 1323992672 210762 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1323992677 778699 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "object"? < 1323992687 847887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was presuming plugins are objects. < 1323992691 527565 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1323992700 204719 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implement things horribly. < 1323992712 473392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to explain any further because you'll hate it. < 1323992717 534573 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? This is Perl, you have very few tenable options for abstraction and you ignore the most popular one? < 1323992722 294484 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we persist plugins in TAEB; it leads to some interesting problems sometimes < 1323992732 117549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I found a nice OO way to solve them, which is also rather complicated < 1323992737 881141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I probably will. Use the module ais523 told you about or I'll be nasty if you ask future questions pertaining to the code :) < 1323992748 581554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You know what wouldn't be a problem in @? < 1323992749 975899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: I was going to put "unsafe" into the name of <<= <-- call it <<=!!! or something < 1323992752 499131 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use regular hashes and hashrefs instead of objects for things that are very very simple and don't require all the OO boilerplate. < 1323992752 815863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves custom serializer hooks < 1323992762 317854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the problem is that various things need to /not/ be persisted < 1323992769 735842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Man... it has state... and behaviour... and the state doesn't matter to things outside it... < 1323992775 363545 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it implements a common interface... < 1323992777 718171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the reason being because they're full of literal pointers-converted-to-integers, which obviously couldn't happen in @) < 1323992779 735183 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is a language where OOP is the common practice... < 1323992781 518025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes but it's not a perl object. < 1323992782 465657 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOPE, BOILERPLATE < 1323992788 829046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite that being the *definition of an object*. < 1323992789 354855 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :/w/in 52 < 1323992804 802801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure it could, if you ran nethack in a VM < 1323992815 754120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you mean TAEB? < 1323992817 885380 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't actually like perl OO. sorry. < 1323992822 791028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, TAEB would control the nethack VM < 1323992827 879679 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: use one of the alternate object systems < 1323992834 952940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but the literal pointers are to stuff inside TAEB < 1323992849 199694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what? < 1323992855 640480 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed they were pointers into nethack memory < 1323992868 266077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, how can it possibly work /that/ out over telnet? < 1323992877 729502 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's TAEB! I just assume it's insane < 1323992889 548237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because it needs to use objects as hash keys < 1323992903 512990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh. well you can do that in @ no problem, naturally < 1323992910 367437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's a Perl problem more than anything else < 1323992917 106961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the objects have to be immutable. < 1323992927 669478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though you _could_ write a dictionary with mutable keys < 1323992930 273832 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd just be not very useful < 1323992948 31270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, in this case, the objects /are/ mutable but the hash lookup is based on sharing < 1323992956 319067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it's not the value of the object that matters, but the name < 1323992961 865135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the CS meaning of "name") < 1323992981 234905 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, you'd handle that just by overriding how they're hashed and compared for equality with an interning type or whatever < 1323992982 898988 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what are the objects, exactly? < 1323992983 101866 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I still think changing the working directory makes sense in this context. < 1323992994 49811 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: well, it's not the first thing you've been wrong about. < 1323992994 387117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all sorts of things; things like tiles, items, etc < 1323993006 238385 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1323993008 131928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why are they mutable? < 1323993014 532583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could convert the tiles to coordinates, but that would require something like four property lookups for every hash lookup < 1323993023 521718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because a tile object stores the known information about the tile < 1323993030 780997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x <<=☠ y = "test" in 2 <<=☠ 4 < 1323993031 613903 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "test" < 1323993067 294896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, so the problem is that you're mixing what you /know/ about something with the thing itself < 1323993077 969940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, or rather the TAEB framework is doing that < 1323993091 3669 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had to work around the problem when writing an AI for it < 1323993093 406671 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "you"/"we" are perfectly valid terms for codebase < 1323993093 756829 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1323993105 71750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my suggestion is to not do that :) < 1323993112 813773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, but "you" directed at me when referring to a codebase that I didn't write is confusing < 1323993119 573914 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1323993130 44920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you'd made a fair amount of changes to TAEB itself < 1323993132 501985 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*assumed < 1323993137 461175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't see how mutability matters there; immutable objects would have exactly the same problem < 1323993145 53551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, indeed, but I can't make huge breaking changes to every part of the API < 1323993156 46688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1323993180 237858 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, @ is great, because you'd give up before manging to implement the wrong way to do things :) < 1323993194 892243 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, I don't see how mutability matters there; immutable objects would have exactly the same problem < 1323993199 913800 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're misusing keys < 1323993202 62804 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in Perl, I mean < 1323993204 440543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your real key is whatever the name of the object is < 1323993207 105115 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're using the object itself < 1323993216 442186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by "name", I mean anything equivalent to the name < 1323993220 289770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, whatever you're interning on, basically < 1323993221 91121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, I'm using the name of the object as keys < 1323993227 461937 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: erm, what I mean is < 1323993228 151287 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I am doing, using refaddr obj as the key < 1323993232 540301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're /trying/ to use the object as a key < 1323993238 264683 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's your workaround for not being allowed to < 1323993267 47131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, I'm trying to use the object's coordinates as a key, I guess < 1323993277 95243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, a unique ID referring to the object < 1323993286 527151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as a name. < 1323993292 733028 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the problem is that you're too baffled by the design for me to explain why it's a bad idea :) < 1323993299 499596 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you intern, say, items? < 1323993306 205778 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what key do you use for the intern table? < 1323993315 489057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use refaddr as the key, always < 1323993317 875139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it doesn't persist < 1323993324 666096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because good luck persisting general pointers < 1323993339 576245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're confused < 1323993349 372503 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't intern an object with the key being the address < 1323993355 776595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good way to get an intern table of exactly one entry < 1323993365 559975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "intern" mean here? < 1323993381 354800 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm currently trying to bring my team up high enough to fight the revamped Elite Four. Are there any training tips I'm missing? < 1323993387 97285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, you don't actually do interning < 1323993393 243000 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: elliott: well, in this case, the objects /are/ mutable but the hash lookup is based on sharing < 1323993402 847034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: there are some daily level 70 fights which are quite good < 1323993403 799219 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: either you don't understand what sharing is, or I don't know what you're talking about < 1323993413 721057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the daily fights in Big Stadium / Small Court are scaling < 1323993422 794842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm having trouble expressing myself, which is quite common < 1323993434 948922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, remember to use the Lucky Egg (I think you get one without having to farm it in Black/White) < 1323993436 731036 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, let me rework this < 1323993451 471224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also use Entralink Pass Powers, but it's probably not worth the effort/setup unless you happen to have some spare < 1323993456 999682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when you use the (address of) a tile as a hash key, what is the semantic key you are trying to use? < 1323993457 507708 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I thought they were fixed. I am using those. You do get one without having to farm but it's sort of unreliable since I can'trely on a single 'mon < 1323993462 319286 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the location, right? < 1323993464 539677 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. coordinates < 1323993469 792635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you farm one 'mon at a time < 1323993480 342945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :'mon? seriously? < 1323993481 299611 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can't rely on one 'mon to fight though < 1323993487 355555 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut that out, both of you < 1323993489 847467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1323993497 483446 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, with the caveat that the coordinates might not actually be known < 1323993502 234091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's common competitive abbreviation < 1323993505 392418 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s/yes.*/no/ < 1323993506 664443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, they often leave out the apostrophe < 1323993511 228281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is the key if the location isn't known? < 1323993515 600810 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what daily level 70 fights? My 'ns could really use those < 1323993518 194178 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're unable to tell me what you're actually keying on, semantically < 1323993523 456005 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very worrying < 1323993524 966264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we're keying on (x, y, level) < 1323993528 706664 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it means you don't know what your program means < 1323993535 83423 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no you're not, you said those aren't always known < 1323993541 498034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the level /object/ is known < 1323993543 555071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its location isn't < 1323993554 293564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a mutable level object that represents the level < 1323993557 851162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, and what does the level mean? < 1323993561 689398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it basically just an enum? < 1323993578 361960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like MainDungeon Int | ... < 1323993579 280772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1323993586 921487 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if mutating the level one tile belongs to mutates the level another tile belongs to, they're on the same level < 1323993595 494083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can, from a level object, get all tiles on that level < 1323993608 773361 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives up
< 1323993687 89538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the reason I'm describing this semantically is that the key is not well-founded < 1323993704 375736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see… I suppose the way it works in practice is that the key is (x, y, unique identifier for level) < 1323993707 969862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing the opposite of describing it semantically; you're unable to tell me what the semantics are < 1323993716 64871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah backup time. < 1323993722 58258 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the unique identifier is currently the level's refaddr, but semantically could be anything that uniquely identifies the level < 1323993723 692574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zooooooooom rsync spam. < 1323993736 803807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my particular blend of zealotry tells me that you, therefore, have no idea what your program does or is meant to do, and you should just type random keys instead < 1323993750 719739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you haven't been able to tell me what a level is, though < 1323993758 479212 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not identified by a location, how do you know what makes any given level not another level? < 1323993763 749322 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it done? < 1323993768 14237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: badly < 1323993770 92514 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do level objects come from? how are they created? < 1323993783 662797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, TAEB always knows whether or not it's on the same level as it was last step < 1323993791 645414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't, it checks all the existing level objects to see if it matches what it sees < 1323993799 567368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it doesn't, creates a new level object and assigns all the tiles it can see to that one < 1323993833 846839 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, then the closest semantics I can think of a level for a hash key is the number it was created in < 1323993838 624105 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, first level created is 0, second is 1, ... < 1323993842 307315 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll notice that this is terrible < 1323993847 423616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because your program is terrible :) < 1323993861 17288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as I said, "unique identifier for level" < 1323993875 72736 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a special kind of program to bake in how its imperative semantics run to the /behaviour/ < 1323993878 619554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suppose most programs do that :( < 1323993907 982421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not imperative semantics, really < 1323993919 145517 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can't "arbitrary identifier for X" be used in functional programs ever? < 1323993974 100584 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is, because it's based on the order things are executed < 1323993977 30429 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : basically, TAEB always knows whether or not it's on the same level as it was last step < 1323993977 206598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if it isn't, it checks all the existing level objects to see if it matches what it sees < 1323993977 206813 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and if it doesn't, creates a new level object and assigns all the tiles it can see to that one < 1323993990 492055 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing involved here is time, basically < 1323994003 790542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean NetHack game step < 1323994007 336478 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1323994013 268372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imperative programs don't care if their time is real time... < 1323994014 964339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about sequencing < 1323994016 981923 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I can think of a better way to model it that behaves the same /way/ < 1323994028 125163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what TAEB can detect is whether the level has changed or not < 1323994036 874943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're basically keying on the /equivalence class/ of "close enough to X" < 1323994039 550312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where X is a tile pattern < 1323994046 85649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("if it matches what it sees") < 1323994049 293854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1323994074 297445 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your keys are just taking the setoid of maps (= 2D ASCII pictures) with the relation being however it defines "close enough" < 1323994077 548408 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.Z. < 1323994081 428297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, if a command it sends to the game leaves the level unchanged, it knows; likewise, if it changes it, it knows < 1323994110 152516 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can't compare two views from different times to see if they're the same level (it has many ways to rule it out, but no way to prove it for certain) < 1323994112 641363 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what you're saying doesn't make any sense at all, so I'm assuming you just didn't notice me swerving at some point < 1323994145 240971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm organic compounds. < 1323994154 206460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't see why it makes no sense < 1323994161 935406 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they're probably true statements < 1323994162 721067 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like, we're trying to key on insufficient data < 1323994172 510201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you seem to be implying that they're relevant responses to things I've recently said < 1323994187 536520 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that < 1323994191 375887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm trying to say you're wrong about what my keys are < 1323994196 353618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) the semantics you've described are terrible, < 1323994207 263457 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) but there's a reasonable way to express them without changing behaviour or relying on imperative sequencing < 1323994223 166801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not relying on imperative sequencing < 1323994230 258486 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately what I said was completely true; i.e. you could replace the keys in your program with the keys I mentioned and TAEB would work identically < 1323994233 34815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the information it gets from the game has timestamps < 1323994240 850069 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't understand what imperative means < 1323994253 882268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is fundamentally based on order of operations, not declarative semantics, Q.E.Z. < 1323994268 181564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you under the impression that I'm saying that the way TAEB does levels is fundamentally impossible to express in a functional language? < 1323994274 146797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not trying to argue that at all < 1323994274 677653 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : (b) but there's a reasonable way to express them without changing behaviour or relying on imperative sequencing < 1323994280 336790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously not, because I just told you the real semantics < 1323994294 737271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what exactly are you taking issue with? < 1323994297 349949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you agreeing with me? < 1323994298 966807 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the semantics you want and /really mean/, not how you reverse engineer them from the actual behaviour < 1323994322 361056 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm disagreeing that your description of the semantics is reasonable, and I'm disagreeing with any implicit statement that TAEB's way of doing this is at all reasonable and that it isn't completely structurally unsound < 1323994365 593960 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly I consider my point proven, since you've had to resort to mentally simulating the software to figure out what it means :) < 1323994404 251870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, the semantics I want is to key on x-coordinate, y-coordinate, and which level the tile is belongs to; but we don't know what level the tile belongs to < 1323994431 532053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossible, so it's not semantics < 1323994477 210058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : you're basically keying on the /equivalence class/ of "close enough to X" < 1323994477 386546 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where X is a tile pattern < 1323994477 386772 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("if it matches what it sees") < 1323994477 604857 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : so your keys are just taking the setoid of maps (= 2D ASCII pictures) with the relation being however it defines "close enough" < 1323994477 780928 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Q.E.Z. < 1323994487 945264 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best description of the semantics you /have/ < 1323994493 743042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I agree that the semantics I want are impossible < 1323994495 886812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's what you want depends on how much you like your level-matching algorithm < 1323994514 12870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the best we have; the level-matching algorithm could do with improvement, really < 1323994530 73762 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works well mostly, but goes haywire if it gets half a level due to lag < 1323994531 224795 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to clarify: < 1323994535 986221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's what you want depends on how much you like the very idea of the level-matching algorithm < 1323994577 930120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, you're missing an important point; we can match the maps either on physical appearance, or on knowledge that two maps are the same because they were on consecutive steps without a level change < 1323994580 116865 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to unpack what I'm saying into something more like conventional programmerspeak, I'm saying that you want to want to form a new type that's identical to 2D level maps, except that all maps that match are considered equal < 1323994620 777340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what we're actually doing is taking equivalence classes on (map, timestamp) pairs by quotienting them on a "look similar or have consecutive timestamps without a change" equivalence relation < 1323994632 958194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in other words, I didn't need the unpacking…) < 1323994639 426419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's not what the problem was) < 1323994644 396401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't expect you needed the unpacking < 1323994648 147067 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was just relating it pack to hash tables < 1323994654 555477 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*back < 1323994662 239844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1323994674 541203 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, what I was really doing is just trying to restate it, but it happened that I ended up restating it in a more dumbed-down fashion, so I added that to the front :) < 1323994675 497661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, the main reason these are refaddrs is so that they can be calculated quickly < 1323994680 907525 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1323994687 381234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, in case it isn't clear, I think TAEB's design is terrible :) < 1323994738 823395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but if you designed it in @, it'd probably be perfect. < 1323994760 803164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how would you solve the problem, incidentally? < 1323994767 467693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to use the same semantics as TAEB < 1323994809 691044 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, if you're asking "how would I, when presented with this problem in practice, solve it", the answer would probably be to complain on #esoteric about how terrible TAEB is, and then rethink everything about the entire problem of playing nethack from scratch < 1323994825 126458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway, there's a situation where this approach leads to huge measurable problems in TAEB < 1323994832 551955 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on a smaller scale, I'd probably try and figure out whether you can precisely determine level < 1323994837 74001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just relying on heuristics < 1323994839 934996 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by logging more about what happens < 1323994842 499112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that it has trouble working out when two items are the same < 1323994845 675862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even more so, of monsters < 1323994851 309316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: imagine you have a finite amount of time to live. Now imagine that what you're doing right now prevents you from doing other things in the sum of all events in your life. < 1323994858 987544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what would you rather be doing right now? < 1323994871 120331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure elliott enjoys talking on IRC < 1323994872 560993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "Imagine" I have a finite amount of time to live? < 1323994879 137344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems fairly likely to me. < 1323994884 553881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not terribly difficult to imagine. < 1323994904 546952 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's promising. < 1323994913 982779 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now imagine that what you're doing right now prevents you from doing other things in the sum of all events in your life." ;; is this not equivalent to "Now imagine that what you're doing now is not doing other things." < 1323994937 845390 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-229-232.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1323994954 13359 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my answer is nothing, because I'm feeling fairly lazy, it's after midnight, and it's winter < 1323994961 592409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, it still interferes with the sequencing and duration of events. < 1323994969 828103 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's not really a huge amount of things to do. < 1323994974 62309 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why are you asking? < 1323994986 809435 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really have a reason. < 1323994993 310830 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would _you_ rather be doing? < 1323995004 862302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm about to do something nobody has ever done before in the history of prorgamming < 1323995007 846066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :skydiving in a wingsuit. < 1323995018 717606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: has anyone attempted before? < 1323995023 212397 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: why aren't you doing it? < 1323995026 480276 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nobody's even considered it! < 1323995032 48529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1323995047 470688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no it's my point, you're not allowed to steal it! < 1323995056 500470 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: so what is your point, exactly? < 1323995066 810281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think talking about IRC on programming is pointless, < 1323995068 875031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION holds up mirror
< 1323995070 241113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that this conversation is silly. :P < 1323995077 629868 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, don't participate in it < 1323995080 328324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I prefer elliott's subject < 1323995081 832860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: go on < 1323995097 316910 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going to grep for every occurrence of TODO|FIXME in a codebase, and /actually fix them/. < 1323995101 934422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY IF YOU EXPECTED IT TO BE EXCITING < 1323995110 392202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: haha < 1323995121 659816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is actually pretty exciting, also insightful < 1323995127 49574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I've at least considered it, before now < 1323995154 90248 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-216.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1323995212 387608 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ egrep -r 'TODO|FIXME' *.c *.h | wc -l < 1323995212 563777 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :26 < 1323995222 315112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's a pleasant surprise < 1323995226 386446 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering I write about fifty per day < 1323995296 270598 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, why can't you decide levels exactly in TAEB? < 1323995321 480995 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of any situation in NetHack where you would (a) end up on an unknown level and (b) not be able to determine it exactly, through e.g. the level name/identifier/whatever you call it or otherwise. < 1323995330 780675 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: suppose you go down a set of stairs on Dungones:2; you could arrive on Mines:3 or Dungeons:3 < 1323995340 160421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the view could look exactly the same for each < 1323995359 349529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, but you still known the dlvl number, right? < 1323995361 430096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in particular, you could be in a dark area with no adjacent walls in either) < 1323995364 161029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you know the numbre < 1323995366 360728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Dungeons < 1323995369 577100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not the branch < 1323995374 301048 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not just key on that? < 1323995376 624822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking number is one of the most obvious things the level comparer does < 1323995384 21202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because then you'd get mines:3 and dungeons:3 muddled? < 1323995388 229554 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what branch it's in" is just another piece of information you haven't yet found out < 1323995394 650935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, right < 1323995408 903095 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, hmm < 1323995426 78929 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know what I'd do; I'd store tile information in a tree < 1323995436 401403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mines:3 and dungeons:3 would be distinguished by the path in the tree to get there, which would be spatial < 1323995446 145221 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd just both be on level 3, that's all < 1323995459 768759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, I'd store tile information inside level information < 1323995462 192006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except that you can /also/ fall through a trapdoor on dungeons:1, and land on dungeons:3 < 1323995471 584753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, possibly not with those exact numbers, but translated downwards) < 1323995477 506401 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, and? < 1323995485 97171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, how do you know if you're on the level reached via set-of-stairs 1, or the level reached by set-of-stairs 2? < 1323995493 141739 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *dungeons:3/mines:3, then < 1323995505 255725 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably) < 1323995509 171922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, "path to get there" isn't always known < 1323995517 920062 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, sure it is < 1323995521 820364 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a graph instead of a tree < 1323995523 593332 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's two paths < 1323995538 351752 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK, I'll buy that; but it's a graph where you don't know if two edges lead to the same vertex or not < 1323995541 407856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not a /known/ graph < 1323995554 826956 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, what do you think of this: "current level" should be stored separately to "known levels" < 1323995565 200129 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should only become "tied" to a known level if you can decide for /sure/ that it's a known level < 1323995571 279211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time, you can do that immediately < 1323995582 286192 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., you went down some downstairs in a non-forking place < 1323995592 238340 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be one kind of proof < 1323995597 712914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1323995604 666962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one kind of proof that TAEB currently doesn't use, interestingly < 1323995606 152301 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that /is/ based on time, but it's not in the model < 1323995615 114978 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something you /give/ to the model < 1323995643 834495 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, the worst-case is, you fall down a trapdoor to a previously seen level, and never prove it's one or the other branch < 1323995658 726054 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but as soon as you go up the upstairs, you'll be in an unambiguous location again < 1323995662 559265 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's only one dlvl 2, or whatever < 1323995682 733990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or if you go down, and find minetown, you know all the levels on the way were in the mines < 1323995687 79425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how would the API for this information look to the AI? < 1323995730 869102 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, beats me, I'm thinking in terms of @, which basically involves pretending the world is as declarative as possible and you have infinite powers of abstraction available to you < 1323995732 641015 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think... < 1323995758 845490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how does an AI do "route to