< 1325894501 407125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How many times do I have to point out CONTINUOUS TIME < 1325894524 144828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for which C(f(P)) = C(P) + move. < 1325894528 746307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is the best superpower? <-- uh oh, maybe it's not wise to sum opposing vectors, you could divide the piece in two and move them about as far as you want if things can cancel < 1325894594 425623 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, failing to see the problem?? < 1325894648 522009 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I think I made a command abbreviation / typo checker that works slightly better than lambdabots. < 1325894659 563136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well it does mean you can move a bit too quickly... < 1325894664 962771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: like, a pawn on e4 could move half 2 steps backward and half 4 steps forward < 1325894689 776205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it checks for commands that the input command is an abbreviation of, and then if there's only one of those, uses that, otherwise it checks the levenshtein distance and if there's only one below a threshhold of 3 then it uses that < 1325894696 273606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it lists all of the matches. < 1325894716 57934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, of course; what of it? < 1325894721 965711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: O KAY < 1325894734 400960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can take half a piece that way, sure. < 1325894747 267004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And then another, with one left movement and another acceleration. < 1325894751 790937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that you can both abbreviate commands as well as have minor typos corrected for you < 1325894759 258318 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i am hearing here tells me that if one was to develop this game in a serious manner then he could achieve mathematical fame < 1325894785 310014 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are of course other ways to go about that < 1325894792 939009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, TbH, by now, it's not too hard to understand. < 1325894815 639036 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. < 1325894830 97057 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the dirty version < 1325894846 433331 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the impossible to play one < 1325894885 615057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still impossible to play. < 1325894887 561521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: CONTINUOUS TIME < 1325894889 306869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was mainly because I made a hash of the definition. < 1325894899 500443 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a possible to play version of this game? < 1325894902 713185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's not elegantly generalisable, I think. < 1325894912 685791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, only one way to find out... < 1325894952 386422 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you use my amazing portal chess server infrastructure to implement your chess game, in a few years when I have the most active portal chess server on the web. < 1325894968 356503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :( < 1325894973 654344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No. < 1325894984 764024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it would be easy if you used the rationals or whatever. < 1325894986 196350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But also boring. < 1325895000 313754 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That post-apocalyptic chess thing is pretty cool now, although it will never see the light of anything interesting. < 1325895029 180020 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um, use Coq???? < 1325895030 132284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you took me seriously just slightly beyond the reasonable threshold. < 1325895073 434803 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure the token expansion of what I am doing, it is very much like a comonad except that there is only one type inside, rather than any type. So I made up =>>: and =>=: and <$: which can be used with it < 1325895077 81667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What thing? < 1325895082 699164 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be the type of game which there is no board.. < 1325895098 103997 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the board is constructed as necessary to help the player determine the game state < 1325895098 909201 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-01-06#171155PhantomHoover < 1325895101 878550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read on. < 1325895102 724884 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet before, I did not know any purpose of a comonad in the program. But now I do. < 1325895113 471385 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to Vorpal's SCSI fetish. < 1325895179 525328 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=>>:) :: ProgramState -> (ProgramState -> [Token]) -> ProgramState; (=>=:) :: (ProgramState -> [Token]) -> (ProgramState -> [Token]) -> (ProgramState -> [Token]); (<$:) :: [Token] -> ProgramState -> ProgramState; < 1325895218 708238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Maybe I'll just read the whole log? < 1325895360 337767 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@m < 1325895360 654864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: map messages messages? more msg . ? @ v < 1325895374 96868 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325895407 958368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chess topics started going berzerk once vorpal said: "* Vorpal imagines chess with HP and headshots" < 1325895465 621176 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some chess variants with hit-points, there are some with shooting capture (you stay where you are when capturing a piece), and some with different board geometry, etc < 1325895525 247106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:41:08: itidus21: I think the patent system exists because inventors feel entitled to the spoils of their inventions and this makes sense from an ethical perspective. Paradoxically, people claim that it encourages competition, despite it doing the exact opposite of that by definition. < 1325895538 799709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the idea is that it encourages competition by encouraging people to innovate < 1325895543 310015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and discouraging copying < 1325895598 464907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but a state of perfect competition exists when you have multiple sellers selling the same thing at the same quality. < 1325895601 418992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents make this difficult. < 1325895688 471322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i nominate Phantom_Hoover to explain the idea of a bigger picture. < 1325895711 569174 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. you're not allowed to get people to explain your points for you. < 1325895715 886636 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I get someone too < 1325895718 297310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:09:02: (All the school computers have Halo because.... I don't know.) < 1325895720 199347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can have a proxy debate < 1325895722 599648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So they can kick people out for it. < 1325895738 627762 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike patents. I think is better not patented, and not patented you can still competition, innovation, unrestriction, etc. < 1325895938 911580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:20:44: Vorpal: Okay, here: http://e621.net/post/show/43346/4-3-blush-darkdoomer-iriver-overstretched-rule_34- -- note, it's a SCSI cable; you can tell from the logo. < 1325895943 706197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That was impressively quick. < 1325895943 864868 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I suppose if there's always innovation then the patent system does not produce monopolies. < 1325895965 19510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does restrict competition / create a barrier of entry < 1325896017 614423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:25: Huh, the 'coretemp' sensor on this Atom box is saying "Core 0: +23.0°C (crit = +90.0°C)" -- that sounds dubiously low, but I guess it's *possible*, since it's an Atom and mostly idle. (The box is making a worrisome noise, might be the PSU fan dying.) < 1325896017 807055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:38: +23 is pretty much room temperature, though. < 1325896017 807149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:40: fizzie, I had an old sempron that idled at 28 C < 1325896017 807191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:28:50: when it was like 17 C inside < 1325896024 544078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: My CPU idles BELOW ROOM TEMPERATURE. < 1325896026 644248 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes I agree it does restrict competition and other thing too < 1325896026 802062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :With AIR COOLING. < 1325896160 973317 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I misread lambdabots code. my bot and it do the exact same thing.. < 1325896243 487477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know yours will suck at typo-corrections then < 1325896266 316817 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried applying weights but... it's hard to determine how they interact with one another. < 1325896323 468976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh also it checks identification on bot admins which makes it immediately better. < 1325896352 346661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(0,0) = 0; f(x,0) = x^f(x-1,f(x-1,x^x)); f(x,y) = f(x,y-1)^f(x,y-1); Note that f(0,0) = 0 and f(1,0) = 1 and f(2,0) = 2 but f(3,0) is greater than googolplex. < 1325896446 297761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:32:52: anyway is there any realtime chess I wonder < 1325896446 491006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325896454 457080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have a link though < 1325896466 883439 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes there is a lot of chess variants, there is some kind of realtime chess < 1325896475 896175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:35:15: Vorpal: FRP maintains a sample-independent abstraction that logically resembles continuity. < 1325896482 1886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: that doesn't mean computers are continuous < 1325896489 651300 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would weigh levenshtein distance by distance on a QWERTY keyboard but that makes it non-keyboard-agnostic. < 1325896492 388292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :frp is carefully restricted to not actually let you do anything non-discrete. < 1325896493 339188 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course not. < 1325896505 421561 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/would/could/ < 1325897681 470234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: let g(0,x) = x; g(n,x) = g(n-1,x)^g(n-1,x), then g is primitive recursive. And f(x,y) = g(y,f(x,0)); f(x,0) = x^g(g(x^x,f(x-1,0)), f(x-1,0)). so f is also primitive recursive. < 1325897804 68791 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm how difficult would it be to augment the wagner-fisher algorithm to include character swaps as an operation. < 1325897827 103183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, remember dvorak and so on < 1325897836 767445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks maybe he should have flipped g's arguments < 1325897844 893551 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: help vs. hlep instead of being 2 substitutions this could be 1 character swap < 1325897848 598325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very common case in typos < 1325897881 970460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1325897891 222770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damerau%E2%80%93Levenshtein_distance < 1325897980 727815 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... but < 1325897982 35876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no... < 1325897985 375383 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no CPAN module < 1325898054 771273 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : kallisti: that doesn't mean computers are continuous <-- did you see mentioned recently that FRP is curry-howard isomorphic to constructive time logic? < 1325898062 12843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1325898069 916632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: linear temporal logic < 1325898071 865272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you mean < 1325898101 179464 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think it was a slightly different mention < 1325898167 31039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325898187 226581 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~ugexe/Text-Levenshtein-Damerau-0.02/Levenshtein/Damerau/lib/Text/Levenshtein/Damerau.pm < 1325898190 315329 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi < 1325898218 787603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: is there a rule 34 variant for perl < 1325898231 568799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it exists, there's a cpan module for it. < 1325898234 301926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there exists, there's a cpan module containing porn of it < 1325898235 767066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine's better < 1325898240 91709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including "if there exists" < 1325898254 639229 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: iconmaster is gone! < 1325898257 535829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KSY < 1325898270 224087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :o ksy < 1325898281 214157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION found it iresponsible to correct typos under the circumstances < 1325898321 198895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iresponsible < 1325898329 527322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much so < 1325898351 171586 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the current version I'm using employs XS and so is fairly quick, but I suspect it doesn't matter very much. < 1325898362 494686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It probably does. < 1325898369 869327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edit distance is a huge pain to calculate :p < 1325898377 65697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if someone does @[GIGANTIC COMMAND]?!?!?! < 1325898388 290187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they're a jerk. < 1325898398 896056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@23jj3o4jioj4o34509i34509832049834oitjkgjohjgoihjrfoijsdvoihweeoihsdvfoijhweroijwroijweoirjweegoijweogijsdoifjaskldnwiurghoiwehfijajsfoiwrg < 1325898399 348197 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1325898564 199566 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm for some reason it's not installing. < 1325898599 754377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm it has no makefile. perhaps that's the issue. < 1325898889 187800 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION installs manually. < 1325899070 348304 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One doesn't really need a makefile, anyways. < 1325899087 303592 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's say you've got a single-file C program foo.c. make foo < 1325899088 465088 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bam. < 1325899128 581104 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(make, the build tool with domain-specific knowledge that somehow lacks important parts of the same!) < 1325899178 346786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I write a C program they are usually a single file. Often it is CWEB so it has its own preprocessor, but it can make a shell script that does the compile steps. Sometimes it is linked with something else so I put those things in shell script too, such as SDL or Glk or whatever else. < 1325899700 204076 :madbright!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325899830 65924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325899869 278362 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can digraph categories have any monads or comonads other than identity monads? < 1325900260 188533 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1325900261 480257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325900556 41556 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325902018 317597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1325902663 940564 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325904603 900545 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325904678 265317 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325904742 960920 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> product [] < 1325904743 793649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1325904759 601825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src product < 1325904759 918753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :product = foldl (*) 1 < 1325905522 489795 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about digraph categories? < 1325905840 465166 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325905846 377154 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325905915 367151 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know digraph? It is, you have nodes and then edges connecting them from one to another (normal graph is directionless; digraph has directions). You can make a category of a digraph by the objects being the nodes and the morphisms being the walks between them < 1325906082 847963 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325906084 804985 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :directed graph < 1325906092 634023 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325906097 342295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know what that is. I wasn't familiar with that term. < 1325906102 359840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also called "digraph" for short. < 1325906481 739543 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the monad for categories one that's over the category of digraphs? < 1325906497 465667 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one thing is the free category generated by the digraph, and, uh... < 1325906524 890192 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-130.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325906539 663951 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325906542 118474 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't remember how monads work, categorically theoretically; I just remember that Catsters video. < 1325906819 985325 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose, if there is one node that all edges go in one direction eventually reaching that node, with only one way, that is a final object, and that would be a monad too I suppose (it is called Proxy in Haskell, in the "tagged" package). Actually maybe I got confused < 1325907013 118517 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is possible to turn around all the directions in the graph to make the dual category and then it make the comonad < 1325907141 927252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please tell me in case I did it wrong? < 1325909305 436521 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1325909330 690217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI < 1325909346 726035 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello!!! < 1325909365 198788 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP < 1325909393 310756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog and iamcal have error message for unknown command < 1325910183 578292 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT the fuck up < 1325910695 366420 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1325910766 113465 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325910775 403723 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1325910791 385138 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :Guest96751 < 1325910814 718788 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that shit < 1325910826 335164 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hi < 1325910830 174809 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi < 1325910874 117161 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: hi hi hi < 1325910893 948360 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest96751: hi < 1325910897 439901 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325911212 853284 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325911300 507090 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If MSPA updates (which is looking more and more unlikely), don't expect me to remember to ping you < 1325911329 557491 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does glogbot log CTCP/ < 1325911336 86935 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM SO DISAPPOINTED!!! < 1325911338 95377 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im cry < 1325911339 597094 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :betray :( < 1325911353 974972 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not. < 1325911365 375092 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECRET UNLOGGED MESSAGES MUAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA < 1325911378 886033 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: see: raw log < 1325911432 783567 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1325911720 627492 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raw log includes everything it receives, except for the secret password < 1325911781 272753 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What secret password < 1325911788 812185 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a secret < 1325912169 391878 :Guest96751!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :elliott < 1325912175 724851 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 QUIT :Changing host < 1325912175 882138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325913135 152111 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1325914843 139719 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325915017 87694 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NOTICE #esoteric :HEY_EVERYONE_AM_I_LATE?  < 1325915470 618401 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325915471 753065 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1325915479 179789 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive done what i had been curious about doing for years now < 1325915489 330064 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i build a graph reducing evaluator < 1325915569 494344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1325915572 820550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :took you that long < 1325915577 342127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this something different from a term rewriting language < 1325915590 861158 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if the things I wrote about monad/comonad of digraph category is correct or is wrong or confuse? < 1325915621 343691 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh its completely different < 1325915650 450861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325915673 610872 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a little C program that does reduction of terms-as-structs < 1325915733 864851 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its only pure LC but the rewrite rules are pretty simple. it also automatically TCOs because its in place, and it doesnt have an explicit control stack < 1325915766 582538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like term rewriting to me. < 1325915782 289365 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is, except theres sharing due to using pointers < 1325915820 795030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't change the semantics of the term-rewriting language. (I doubt any actual implementations of term-rewriting languages don't use sharing.) < 1325915863 101018 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it indeed does not < 1325915891 401240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO HA < 1325915895 839941 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but because its got sharing, you get call by need for free < 1325915896 156951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But go on. < 1325915934 260368 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the cool thing is that its simple enough that you could built the controller directly in a chip < 1325915948 874151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: Reduceron. < 1325915953 353395 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325915956 876199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325915960 397348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a graph-rewriting machine in hardware. < 1325915969 616462 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is, but it has some fancy intermediate language for this < 1325915983 349173 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles LC into a specialized language < 1325915990 561703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325915991 352139 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this uses the LC /as the machine language/ < 1325916002 418617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles a sugary Haskell-alike into a term-rewriting language. < 1325916010 95531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is what the Reduceron deals with. < 1325916026 150855 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1325916030 157309 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it compiles LC into a specialized language" < 1325916049 403926 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by lc what do you mean < 1325916053 635846 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so its not pure LC its something modified < 1325916059 305505 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same diff < 1325916081 561719 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, the reduceron doesnt use LC as the machine code < 1325916091 317667 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas in principle you could do so with this evaluator < 1325916094 685534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: OK, you're confused. It doesn't do much to pure LC. < 1325916100 205480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that it has pattern-matching, data types, conditionals, etc. < 1325916104 696883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That turns into _functional_ term rewriting code. < 1325916112 678393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just as easily write pure LC-style code at the lower layer. < 1325916119 574282 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah anyway thats irrelevant to the point < 1325916129 841202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason to use a compiler is because implementing ADTs at the term-rewriting layer would be stupidly slow at runtime for no gain. < 1325916140 14217 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~pure~ lc gives me a bit of spooks < 1325916154 498623 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: you have to get used to church encodings < 1325916167 73300 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that sort of spooks < 1325916171 983854 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alphaconversion sort of spooks < 1325916175 30458 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1325916178 344193 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :debruijn! < 1325916184 23471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1325916188 942219 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use your indices! < 1325916190 701355 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it still "pure" then < 1325916190 858282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO pure equal to not the original < 1325916232 400916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what the Emacs-for-OS X of the season is, I CBA to put any other OS on this right now < 1325916233 389959 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325916236 374793 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, im going to muck around with an FPGA simulator to see what i can see :) < 1325916244 91980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, http://emacsformacosx.com/ seems reasonable < 1325916247 930389 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: aquamacs < 1325916253 668341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No. < 1325916261 707767 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you asked for the one of the season! < 1325916268 579848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The good one of the season. < 1325916271 112608 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1325916395 302929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Post your C code already. < 1325916411 963225 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i didnt realize you cared < 1325916427 74929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... vaguely care? < 1325916541 827528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a statically-typed, non-strict term rewriting language. < 1325916572 780913 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants non-von-neumann architecture < 1325916587 275215 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants < 1325916590 873440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah yeah, so does everybody. < 1325916597 711345 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/DPvpgnL8 < 1325916616 188458 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the point tho is that this is simple enough to design a non-von-neumann architecture with :) < 1325916642 790843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lam? < 1325916644 396109 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch out for memory leaks. its not designed to be memory friendly. < 1325916648 629421 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda! < 1325916653 719920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's actually just LC, not term-rewriting. < 1325916655 819547 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamb < 1325916665 687173 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt say anything about term-rewriting, you did < 1325916665 843232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you haven't heard of switch statements. < 1325916672 326894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said graph-rewriting, same thing. < 1325916683 509562 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said it was a graph-reducing evaluator < 1325916687 230891 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, you're running Mac OS X these days? < 1325916688 814321 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1325916697 713903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Why is that excellent? < 1325916703 411396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need reassurance, I still hate it. < 1325916703 874135 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hes been on os x for forever... < 1325916705 339234 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're finally showing your true colours. < 1325916709 813697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: No I haven't. < 1325916712 227109 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1325916720 813311 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever since ive known you, i think < 1325916731 831858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it for a bit, then I stopped because it sucks. < 1325916732 305511 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you've never known elliott. < 1325916739 49473 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh i see < 1325916741 28016 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1325916742 691672 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1325916805 308239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you write me a statically-typed, non-strict term rewriting language? < 1325916837 569639 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure. < 1325916846 726118 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash < 1325916851 955338 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :read < 1325916856 745145 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo SYNTAX ERROR >&2 < 1325916858 737102 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit 1 < 1325916865 58025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Excellent. < 1325916876 413392 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you figure out the right syntax, it does just what you want. < 1325916878 781074 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how old are you now? 17> < 1325916888 684020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :26. < 1325916906 451946 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see, you were 13 in 2006, so youre 18 now surely < 1325916910 464794 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1325916922 229534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are really bad at arithmetic and memory. < 1325916933 63536 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1325916958 247629 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011 - 2006 = 5; 13 + 5 = 18 < 1325916965 283634 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :give or take, depending on when your birthday is < 1325916981 119958 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iinm its something like november 3 or something < 1325916992 753225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... < 1325916994 335007 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(im almost certainly mistaken) < 1325916996 749408 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but! < 1325917004 753088 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :youre within a year of 18 < 1325917009 14609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like you're trying to be as mistaken as humanly possible. < 1325917013 278602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And succeeding. < 1325917018 692850 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont need to try. < 1325917029 454298 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're -4, aren't you? < 1325917038 261283 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-4 + 2i < 1325917041 874964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) I wasn't 13 in 2006 (b) I'm not within a year of 18 (c) You didn't even know me in 2006 < 1325917044 323865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: -6 < 1325917046 262185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a birthday. < 1325917047 687680 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehhh.. < 1325917053 860573 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 2007 then. < 1325917055 444491 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What date is your birthday? < 1325917068 304470 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when you said you had a birthday but I didn't note it down. < 1325917068 620943 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew you within a year of getting to stony brook, possibly within the first few months of being there < 1325917068 977874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: November 37th. < 1325917072 361998 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so late 600 early 2007 < 1325917083 748566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Pls abandon piece of paper with elliott notes. < 1325917084 551116 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you read _The 35th of May_? < 1325917086 769046 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :november 3, november 37, SAME DIFF < 1325917088 34025 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fosh < 1325917090 927678 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh even < 1325917098 904782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. Should I? < 1325917101 224027 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which one? < 1325917106 580782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them. < 1325917106 737126 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it's a good book. < 1325917130 322272 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how about this proposal: < 1325917132 894706 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop with the ageism. < 1325917137 153052 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325917137 943528 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes discussing ages. < 1325917155 51273 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is a dawg so you have to measure his age in dawg years. < 1325917156 160260 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my earliest logs for this channel are may 2008 < 1325917159 880658 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose thats plausible < 1325917172 498781 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that means you're even younger, elliott D: < 1325917175 866832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks letting people know his age was the most annoyance-causing decision he ever made. < 1325917182 736097 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION too < 1325917188 918478 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately I'm old now. < 1325917194 626019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you ever not old? < 1325917199 182163 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325917215 38120 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how else am i supposed to figure out what david deutsch looked like as a young man? < 1325917225 237259 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not by looking at you < 1325917246 553135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is actually David Deutsch. < 1325917250 939381 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1325917264 165050 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORLD RENOWNED PHYSICIST DAVID DEUTSCH IN THIS VERY CHANNEL! < 1325917352 351423 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm considering going to sleep in evenings instead of mornings. < 1325917354 924304 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325918534 357746 :PiRSquaredAway!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325918839 807309 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325919618 485597 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325920421 469253 :madbright!189dfdbe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.157.253.190 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1325920666 594176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325921435 510037 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325921461 467027 :elliott_!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :Guest55419 < 1325921988 933981 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325921998 50300 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You didn't tell me erus` asked that SO question. < 1325922034 125446 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: I don't know what that SO question is. < 1325922040 762129 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8756456/how-to-test-equality-of-recursive-structures < 1325922042 702515 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know much about erus`. < 1325922056 289267 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:32:28 erus` pasted “babbys first type system” at http://hpaste.org/56146 < 1325922057 81766 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erus` is a much better nick than "Guest55419", though. < 1325922063 452178 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419 is the best nick. < 1325922069 33816 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a commentary on the meaninglessness of identity. < 1325922089 573784 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1325922093 404558 :Guest554110!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325922095 538840 :Guest554110!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAKE THAT < 1325922107 22844 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, the Applicative operators should be called .$ and *$, I think. < 1325922128 689388 :Guest554110!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554111 < 1325922142 417498 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: Are you reading #haskell logs? < 1325922143 841815 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that ($) should be called something lighter, and be infixl. < 1325922148 521324 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe. < 1325922151 412004 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame on you. < 1325922159 52792 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll find the places where I mad. < 1325922176 669249 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In another channel I even more mad. < 1325922189 597363 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:14 < shachaf> Approximately half of #haskell ought to be eliminated. < 1325922194 152810 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:14 < shachaf> I hate everybody. < 1325922198 277500 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:14 < shachaf> That probably has to do with how I haven't eaten all day. < 1325922223 763811 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's rename ($) to (•), (<$>) to (‹•), and (<*>) to (‹•›). < 1325922267 776315 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's have infixl $, infixl *, ($) = (*) = id < 1325922273 173999 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :join ∘ putStrLn • (+) ‹• readLn ‹•› readLn < 1325922274 439507 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the logical way to do it. < 1325922284 386561 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objectively nicer. < 1325922292 748837 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, my IRC client is racist. Is that thing after "join " a "::" character? < 1325922302 430030 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's the composition operator. < 1325922311 404216 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-01-07#074433Guest55419 < 1325922313 501534 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325922322 933978 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that renders the guillemet-bullet things uglily thanks to monospacedness. < 1325922325 661511 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T READ LOGS < 1325922342 265141 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guillaume's Face < 1325922346 611571 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Also, is #not-haskell actually a thing? < 1325922380 924755 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: Why don't you join it and see? < 1325922398 29591 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be bad! It might, say, have people who name themselves after violating rules. < 1325922405 176914 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or people who sha the chaf. < 1325922418 990367 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name themselves after violating rules? < 1325922428 787965 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, like some kind of... cheater. < 1325922443 546512 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION plays the TITLE OF FILM OCCURS IN DIALOGUE IN FILM ITSELF fanfare. < 1325922469 362983 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: Ew. < 1325922474 336260 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No cheater in there. < 1325922514 843481 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: cheater got a job or something, by the way, so he's not in #haskell-blah much either these days. < 1325922531 176924 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: I was typing, not fair! < 1325922543 525628 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, I assumed he'd just stopped bothering us in favour of you guys. < 1325922551 100098 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good to know the tranquil is global. < 1325922699 255670 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I agree that #haskell is crappy. < 1325923099 449136 :Guest554111!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554112 < 1325923111 662797 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1325923114 197895 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: But imagine that all the nonsense was gone! < 1325923117 601643 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it would be good. < 1325923145 748437 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc has pretty much abandoned it, I believe. < 1325923147 434202 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sorry, I go for mediums that don't inevitably break all my verbose questions into 2, 3 or more units of text nowadays :) < 1325923151 849214 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*media < 1325923167 814546 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I miss out on all the VALUABLE CHAT. < 1325923171 787715 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those monad tutorial jokes? < 1325923173 263381 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see none of 'em. < 1325923181 978040 :Guest554112!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554113 < 1325923224 324586 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:16 there are functors that don't have 'pure' < 1325923224 481396 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:16 i meant the opposite < 1325923224 481595 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:31 yes sorry < 1325923225 958832 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:32 hpc: any concrete example? < 1325923227 847264 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:17:36 i can't think of any off the top of my head < 1325923231 377227 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on. < 1325923259 282806 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:20:05 All examples which I know of functors, can be made Applicative by undefined < 1325923267 372109 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: DYK you can define anything as undefined in Haskell? < 1325923269 628965 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :teneen has a point. < 1325923273 774647 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET IT??? < 1325923279 158843 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA HA HA HA HA HA no. < 1325923286 738066 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in pointed functor. < 1325923290 772637 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD STOP TALKING ABOUT SET < 1325923291 405741 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1325923292 908831 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUYS < 1325923294 809216 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923296 778274 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S SO TRIVIAL < 1325923296 934497 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419 < 1325923298 806209 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923300 866589 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923303 175431 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :smiley < 1325923303 879487 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923304 196114 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) < 1325923305 956411 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: MORE LIKE (x,)! < 1325923307 737321 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bird < 1325923308 909578 :Guest554113!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554114 < 1325923313 861762 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: NO TUPLE SECTIONS FOR TYPES!!! I THINK < 1325923317 881071 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest554114: YOU'LL OVERFLOW THE INT < 1325923343 577895 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:21:41 teneen : using that, i think `CoYoneda IORef' is an example 05:22:08 ski: but it can be made an instance of Applicative very easily 05:22:15 teneen : how ? 05:23:34 instance Applicative (CoYenda f) where pure x = undefined; _ <*> _ = undefined < 1325923354 859076 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: THAT SECTION IS CONCEPTUAL < 1325923357 733882 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You said half of #haskell should be eliminated. < 1325923359 9409 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: LIKE (r ->) < 1325923360 321030 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try 90%. < 1325923401 610806 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325923401 769118 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: You should tell teneen that the definition for <*> is too defined. < 1325923409 948575 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be (<*>) = undefined < 1325923410 465358 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, not given up permanently, just yet < 1325923410 622446 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1325923418 917205 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should /join #haskell only on tuesdays and alternate fridays < 1325923456 114980 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuesdays are the worst. The monad-tutorial-jokes of Sunday have been forgotten and so are new again, and the questionless daze of Monday subsides. < 1325923459 259694 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NB: Not based on facts.) < 1325923463 92030 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a channel where only the cool people from #haskell go. < 1325923463 247969 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like "it's bad for me to spend 18 hours a day in #haskell" < 1325923464 467660 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE IT EXISTS AND I JUST WASN'T INVITED. < 1325923471 314339 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's #esoteric < 1325923473 443031 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe it's #esoteric! < 1325923477 828118 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Thank you. < 1325923478 461807 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) can make a comonad always, and a monad if the first type is monoid. While (->) make a monad always, and a comonad if the first type is monoid. And then I figured out the indexed ones as well, can be the first type is a category, instead of a monoid. < 1325923482 518061 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I wasn't invited to #esoteric. < 1325923485 124543 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419, PWN'd < 1325923497 197358 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, we were doing so well at the "cool people" thing before you barged in. < 1325923524 882488 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:24:41 teneen: but that instance clearly breaks the Applicative laws < 1325923525 688851 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:25:44 rostayob: which one? < 1325923526 792289 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325923540 665168 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is viewing this as an elaborate comedy routine. < 1325923574 889345 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Ooh, then we get, on Set having an Ord constraint instead of Eq: haskell is a research language that prides itself on purity, it didnt have a proper way to handle side effects, but refused to compromise like other languages then stm came along, im just saying im suprised to find a compromise thats all < 1325923581 796784 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stops reading this log. < 1325923588 310980 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419: To be fair, most of the monad laws etc. are typically stated "modulo undefined". < 1325923601 83040 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that's annoying me right now is that nobody has any interest in writing down answers to the common questions < 1325923607 807148 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Which gives us horrors like the definition of `evaluate`. :( < 1325923612 142070 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in anywhere permanent / editable / easily linkable < 1325923612 617381 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes it's the opposite. < 1325923615 613030 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What common questions? < 1325923616 403896 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325923618 456042 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1325923630 620109 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A nice thing about SO is that it avoids that problem by definition. < 1325923634 146765 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ehird fellow writes answers on StackOverflow. < 1325923634 462737 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325923643 434876 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hear he's FAMOUS. < 1325923649 645880 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SO is great for common questions, and IRC might be better for deep / open-ended discussion < 1325923657 395787 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do that well enough, kmc, you end up with ##c++ < 1325923667 25554 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks SO's strong hostility to discussion is counterproductive. < 1325923669 187976 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, but if you don't do it, you end up with #haskell < 1325923675 432686 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's understandable, since it'd require about 2x the work to be good at it. < 1325923685 972924 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma ##c < 1325923686 290005 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :##c has a karma of 2 < 1325923706 141178 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm kind of sceptical that IRC is a good medium for deep discussion, though. People usually end up tripping over each others' definitions and revising their viewpoints faster than everyone else can update them. < 1325923717 515760 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419, do you think other media avoid that problem? < 1325923719 448811 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works if everyone has the same clock speed, though. < 1325923722 977009 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause I've seen it happen IRL ;) < 1325923729 891131 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No :) But IRC's quick-fire real-time nature exasperates it. < 1325923742 83523 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow media like email even it out because you can't go fast. < 1325923748 263043 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can, but it fills up everybody's inboxes. < 1325923748 421761 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The other problem is that most -- or at least a lot of -- people who write permanenty linkable answers to things have no idea what they're talking about. < 1325923758 973802 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monad tutorials are the obvious examples but it's a lot more common than that. < 1325923767 814190 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I've just read the first two chapters of LYAH! Who wants to read my Haskell tutorial? < 1325923774 880279 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is purely functional, which means that it can't print to the screen. < 1325923779 293875 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, yeah. if we encourage people to put things on the wiki, then we can fix them < 1325923784 768808 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead we use GHCi to execute our code, which turns into side effects behind the scenes. < 1325923788 364892 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in practice many wiki articles are shite too < 1325923791 28256 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi is written in C/C++. < 1325923801 765081 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :guest should write a tutorial < 1325923803 527328 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's true, except that wiki articles tend to end up at local optima. < 1325923804 2154 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest55419, I see you've been taking lessons from shachaf on how to troll me < 1325923811 32710 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: The following recursive fibonacci program is slower than this iterative C version. < 1325923811 349326 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, better than local pessima < 1325923824 104205 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is because we don't have to declare the types in Haskell, as it is an interpreted language, so the interpreter cannot optimis eit. < 1325923830 544351 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, I pretty much stopped doing those things when you asked! Didn't I? < 1325923836 178649 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. < 1325923842 26479 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data D = D deriving (Eq) < 1325923848 348264 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Num D where { fromIntegral 8 = D } < 1325923853 84913 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(========) = (==) < 1325923870 663364 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You're giving a great demonstration of how IRC maintains a high level of discourse. < 1325923893 175092 :Guest55419!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :elliott < 1325923895 592488 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 QUIT :Changing host < 1325923895 748779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325923928 985447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main problem with SO is that people give out upvotes way too easily, and there's a tragedy of the commons for questions with common misconceptions. < 1325923946 605274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, I am fairly sure the monads-as-containers explanation would get upvoted pretty heavily. < 1325923956 858318 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's true of IRC too, pretty much. < 1325923964 578402 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except upvotes = visibility = volume of posts. < 1325923979 637786 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, what monads is, is a kind of mathematical structure supporting certain operations following certain laws. < 1325923992 360345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there was a question about describing FRP where Conal gave a simple explanation of it and how to come up with it yourself, and there was another answer going "it's about events which cause signals to travel through event handlers in a network" where everyone commented going "Much nicer than the abstract nonsense explanation +1!!!". < 1325924006 653737 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some types that are monads might be containers, but some might have a different purpose < 1325924009 914346 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think "monads as containers" is a decent analogy, if you're upfront about the fact that it *is* an analogy, and not universal < 1325924020 516379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's mitigated by (a) most questions having a single, obvious answer and (b) the most knowledgable community members being the most active early voters. < 1325924029 552588 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of monads are nicely described this way, though not all < 1325924030 243306 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it only apply to some types. Some monad types can be as containers < 1325924031 271458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, fair enough. I should have typed "space suit" instead or similar. < 1325924032 338619 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think it's harmful. < 1325924042 576284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with shachaf though, I don't condone teaching monads like that. < 1325924046 588390 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact there may be a formal mathematical distinction between the monads nicely described by it and the ones which aren't < 1325924051 610806 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the point that someone wants to "understand monads", at least. < 1325924055 864844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be useful for developing further intuition about when to apply monads after you know what they are. < 1325924076 599048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But starting people off on it just leads to misconceptions where people think (m a) always has to contain an a in there. < 1325924083 37509 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325924102 455497 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you show them ((->) r) then it's obvious that it needn't *literally* contain an a < 1325924104 91859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Hey, you want to know the real comedy? < 1325924108 154803 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while showing how it can *conceptually* contain one < 1325924108 312748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking about monad tutorials. < 1325924113 336468 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pace around the room slowly while chanting with your hands cupped together like this for two weeks, you will understand monads < 1325924138 189565 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pie jesu domine, dona eis requiem < 1325924143 78478 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google monads are essentially decorators with method chaining < 1325924144 29098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=439429 < 1325924144 188158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: So monads are essentially decorators with method chaining? | Hacker News < 1325924145 494208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should describe monads in terms of join and fmap as well as >>= and even mean it is applicative functor too, and in terms of mathematics. Understand Haskell better by understanding mathematics better and vice versa. < 1325924155 3002 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Um, excuse me, monads are about sequencing. < 1325924155 160916 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the best explanation of monads. < 1325924155 797553 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1325924163 143952 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1325924166 818529 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No only some can be < 1325924170 62814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is just sequencing a lot of things and the reverse state monad is sequencing things backwards and forwards at the same time! < 1325924174 454893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard it on reddit. < 1325924175 88634 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's go back to the pedagogical discussion. That or data D = D. < 1325924181 321305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, D = D is better than this. < 1325924184 598678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Expand. < 1325924190 489172 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm glad you understand the brilliance of my type and Num instance < 1325924205 410104 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes i wrote fromIntegral instead of fromInteger < 1325924207 514088 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data D where D :: D < 1325924212 304642 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hangs head in shame < 1325924212 502910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :::D < 1325924221 212107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, if you want it to be in Num, it is. < 1325924225 869173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knows what's in Num. < 1325924228 7003 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also forgot Eq. < 1325924228 165987 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is basically the cool kids version of #haskell < 1325924234 556148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can remember about 2/3rds of it at the best of times. < 1325924238 880757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: He derived that. < 1325924242 788902 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325924244 102812 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes. < 1325924248 473260 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show, then. < 1325924252 95558 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric : #haskell :: YOSPOS : SH/SC < 1325924267 752639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did Num even get defined? < 1325924275 336767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I want to know how they actually decided which arbitrary subset of methods to include. < 1325924302 717907 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what monads and comonads that a digraph category can have? < 1325924315 892958 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to explain but am unsure if it is correct < 1325924322 126691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes two of us. < 1325924330 269539 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( C : Haskell :: Exoteric : Esoteric ) < 1325924339 616361 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is the ultimate esoteric language < 1325924346 788023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, only in #esoteric is our Haskell talk punctuated with zzo38 and itidus21. < 1325924348 729694 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or C++ < 1325924364 380304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Not true, people have actually read the Haskell report. < 1325924375 903326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least one well-liked esolang that nobody has read the entire spec to. < 1325924383 366839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *that's* dictionary-definition esoteric. < 1325924398 692971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Recentchanges I like how we have multiple spambots editing the main page IN SUCCESSION. < 1325924409 919385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Editing each other's spam. < 1325924554 941178 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm contemplating whether to go to Hac Boston. < 1325924565 194782 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it < 1325924577 675135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Hac Boston thing has been talked about for like three years and it still hasn't happened. < 1325924581 213314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boston just can't be Hacced. < 1325924589 6378 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's in two weeks. < 1325924719 397208 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do *you* know monad/comonad that a digraph category can have??? < 1325924768 901413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants sameIORef :: IORef a -> IORef b -> Maybe (a :=: b) in Data.IORef. < 1325924771 696553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if he can get it. < 1325924837 623421 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1325924839 206148 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that a digraph category with a final object has a Proxy monad but I am a bit unsure < 1325924844 138859 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what are you doing that wants that < 1325924861 73203 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a strange person with strange cares < 1325924867 984661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I want an equivalent type in http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vault, since it expresses the core type-system feature vault needs unsafeCoerce to get. < 1325924875 584522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apfelmus wants to keep the API IORef-compatible. < 1325924893 260966 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The data structure is analogous to a bank vault, where you can access different bank boxes with different keys" < 1325924895 462024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Basically, it lets you write a heterogeneous map where the type information is stored in the keys. < 1325924895 991587 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COOL ANALOGY BRO < 1325924899 550153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, not my package. < 1325924901 603929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/vault/0.1.0.0/doc/html/Data-Vault.html < 1325924907 661008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the easiest way to understand the API. < 1325924947 910844 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1325924958 118988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can implement it all given < 1325924960 941544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newKey :: IO (Key a) < 1325924967 20850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sameKey :: Key a -> Key b -> Maybe (a :=: b) < 1325924972 789061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Literally just that. < 1325924991 893683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's slow, of course, because you're reduced to using an a-list.) < 1325925021 120150 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "type Vault = Vault RealWorld" < 1325925040 32141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/vault/0.1.0.0/doc/html/Data-Vault-ST.html :p < 1325925063 530973 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes. < 1325925172 605388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sameIORef :: IORef a -> IORef b -> Maybe (a :=: b) < 1325925172 799106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sameIORef a b < 1325925172 799288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | a' == b' = Just (unsafeCoerce refl) < 1325925174 348673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : | otherwise = Nothing < 1325925176 297802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : where a', b' :: IORef () < 1325925178 342981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : a' = unsafeCoerce a < 1325925180 282829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : b' = unsafeCoerce b < 1325925182 267759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, it's easy! < 1325925184 263853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even works with the data a :=: b = Equal { subst :: forall p. p a -> p b } definition. < 1325925293 440190 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unsafeCoerce refl" is pretty good. < 1325925472 646772 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@brain < 1325925472 844797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, < 1325925473 3661 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald < 1325925473 159842 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that? < 1325925553 140833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm, I'm not sure that definition of (:=:) actually works for this. < 1325925575 569842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes it does. < 1325925666 417348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> Maybe b) -> [a] -> Maybe b < 1325925666 734965 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude mapM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m () < 1325925666 893056 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad mapM_ :: Monad m => (a -> m b) -> [a] -> m () < 1325925667 91306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad forM_ :: Monad m => [a] -> (a -> m b) -> m () < 1325925675 86881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you silly bot! < 1325925684 392459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [Maybe a] -> Maybe a < 1325925684 630779 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad msum :: MonadPlus m => [m a] -> m a < 1325925684 789122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Generics.Aliases orElse :: Maybe a -> Maybe a -> Maybe a < 1325925684 945671 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable asum :: (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a < 1325925694 557214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, msum. < 1325925790 933330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: shachaf: http://sprunge.us/QMbF < 1325925886 186857 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the way I used for execution of a token list, is there a better way? execute p @ ProgramState { psTokens = h : t } = let { p' = t <$: p; } in execute . either ($ p') (p' =>>:) $ meaning h p'; < 1325925897 316721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually Unique is better than (IORef ()) there. < 1325925984 211908 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this similar to the way you would have done, or not? < 1325926068 659239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: anyway, it's not *that* a weird thing to want -- it's just a way of being able to reveal the type of an existential, because if two Key/IORef/whatever values are identical, they have to have the same type < 1325926093 920534 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be allowed to pattern match "lookup k (Vault xs) = ... xs" as "(lookup k . Vault) = ...". IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE < 1325926104 722471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I just wished for that earlier today. In here. < 1325926122 813460 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sounds like the reverse state monad's been doing some sequencing! < 1325926128 890640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325926175 661748 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's the point of using IORef there? < 1325926180 308659 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you already talked about that. < 1325926182 365086 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I understand but I think you are wrong because of the way that patterns are working; it cannot possibly work properly using that way so maybe it should be some kind of macro instead; if they had macros then you could make it up in a way that work always < 1325926183 328595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:44 Actually Unique is better than (IORef ()) there. < 1325926213 148384 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You've crushed my argument completely. < 1325926229 68628 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zanks, zzo38. zzo38. < 1325926251 374779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Actually, you don't even need RankNTypes: http://sprunge.us/KEhV < 1325926274 872086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although sameKey tells you distinctly less about the types there. < 1325926300 910840 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you do a token expansion/execution loop in Haskell, anyways? I did it one way but maybe there is better way, I don't know < 1325926360 204511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you write a proper statically-typed lazy term rewriting language for me? < 1325926374 497900 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I already did that earlier today. < 1325926380 53336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: It wasn't proper enough. < 1325926380 211672 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let proper = undefined < 1325926381 163999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1325926391 681479 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure it was. It obeys all the proper laws, see? < 1325926402 493152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325926411 806501 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The <$: and =>>: are pretending that it is a environment comonad) < 1325926424 712641 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, there, there, elliott. Don't be sad. I'll write a statically-typed lazy term rewriting language for you. < 1325926445 346537 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What do you want it for, anyway? < 1325926497 235892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it'd be neat. < 1325926546 479715 :DeStRoYeR87!~rezpeckto@222.124.156.228 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325926562 764379 :DeStRoYeR87!~rezpeckto@222.124.156.228 QUIT : < 1325926564 996917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1325926567 912911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :destroyer < 1325926571 941573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we will miss you :'( < 1325926573 957597 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"destroyed" < 1325926577 530024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325926589 346899 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325926611 784909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, kmc visited #not-haskell and I didn't notice. < 1325926618 644944 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't get the special elliott treatment. < 1325926619 168878 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're the worst channel founder ever < 1325926624 923659 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325926628 701428 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I was kicking everyone else who came in there! < 1325926660 870780 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the signal-to-noise ratio -- well, I don't know about the ratio, but there was very little noise. < 1325926775 417306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :0:0 < 1325926812 542577 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE SIGNAL < 1325926822 682062 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0/0 < 1325926823 513414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : NaN < 1325926828 711180 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naan is delicious. QED < 1325926939 301385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1325926964 325246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You know what would be great? If our compilers automatically rewrote pattern-matching as applications of a fold combinator, and you could extend data-types simply by writing a constructor and adding a clause to the fold combinator. < 1325927043 30072 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it hapen < 1325927057 421626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: The problem is all those pesky non-structurally-recursive functions. :( < 1325927068 935807 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about those < 1325927122 501216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me. < 1325927192 398667 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325927195 889204 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: all functions are structurally recursive over some structure or other! :D < 1325927209 368054 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe the anamorphisms < 1325927225 20657 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem: delicious naan. Proof. eauto. Qed. < 1325927249 629351 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get out of here with your fake coq < 1325927328 327487 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325927399 936343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should end all your proofs with "Admitted.". < 1325927403 297678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can never go wrong. < 1325927441 115579 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel left out for not knowing Coq. :-( < 1325927507 488937 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get out of here with your 8" purple vibrating coq < 1325927523 844901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day someone will talk about Coq and not make a really boring joke. < 1325927536 643514 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i didn't make a santorum joke < 1325927556 66169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Coq is like Agda, except the messes of Unicode are replaced by messes of half-sentences. < 1325927576 361855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eauto. subst in H. split e'. assert (Q : hy_u r42). < 1325927598 102969 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best thing is that H, e', etc. have implicit binding occurrences < 1325927613 776232 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :each tactic can introduce hypotheses with auto-generated names < 1325927615 46543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i always used to go back and bind everything explicitly at the end < 1325927616 696010 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can refer to those < 1325927621 330128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1325927623 370082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't cope < 1325927627 212169 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq bondage < 1325927640 302672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should ban kmc. < 1325927653 173723 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should k-line me < 1325927677 638431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye. < 1325927685 902526 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote Naan. < 1325927686 733946 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bindage and bondage aren't even the same thing < 1325927701 565157 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is moving to Boston, by the way, I hear. < 1325927709 851441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Stop it, you'll enhungrify me and I'll have to move to Boston. < 1325927711 344286 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's have a long, pedantic argument about the difference < 1325927723 18384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Bindage tutorial joke! < 1325927737 817572 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would read The S&M Guide to Haskell < 1325927769 573121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IMPROVMENTS" IS NOT A GOOD EDIT SUMMARY < 1325927773 69835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY AM I REVIEWING THIS CRAP < 1325927785 188869 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I MAED IT WURSE" < 1325927793 696134 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just think of the badges!!! < 1325927808 862342 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :StackOverflow should give badges at randomised intervals rather than at set milestones. < 1325927813 36271 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you never know. You know? < 1325927817 240997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't give a shit about badges, all I want is for my little ticky counter to go up to at least 20k. < 1325927825 627283 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/badges/points/ < 1325927827 55316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badges don't have a cap. < 1325927830 332342 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't need no stinkin' badges < 1325927832 60853 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be like monster drops. < 1325927849 226372 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people who ask questions are monsters, and you slay them. < 1325927858 307539 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, that system might make me feel better about #haskell too. < 1325927859 99747 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, you're reusing my reddit metaphor < 1325927863 526135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This edit replaces a single occurrence of the word "i" in a question title with "I". < 1325927867 351082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its summary is "Fixed grammar". < 1325927875 583508 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What metaphor is that? < 1325927877 500960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question itself has many more errors, and they're actually grammatical errors. < 1325927897 394721 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit comments are like one of those video games where enemies spawn forever < 1325927900 413365 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster and faster < 1325927912 780802 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't win; the only way to win is to quit < 1325927917 837356 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'LL FIX YOUR GRAMMER < 1325927923 324875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"added more tag". Edit adds a signle tag. < 1325927924 474543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*single < 1325927927 370341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1325927928 4014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tags < 1325927930 784025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ruined my entire point :P < 1325927936 188065 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's also have a long, pedantic argument about the difference between "grammar" and "syntax" < 1325927952 208160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: This is orthography, you illiterate fuck. < 1325927970 440980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, it might even be typography, I'm not sure. < 1325927986 345349 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, it's been a long time since I've been involved in a good argument about definitions. < 1325927998 359834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What IS "is"? < 1325928019 587351 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One might ask the same thing about naan. < 1325928026 869006 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ARE breads? We just don't know. < 1325928032 36598 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :naan is pretty easy to make < 1325928038 374334 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a sourdough culture and a frying pan < 1325928055 393560 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :injera is much harder :/ < 1325928059 82960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think this Nigel Lambert text-to-speech engine in my head will never go away or stop automatically firing. < 1325928073 668742 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm pretty sure sour dough culture is reserved to the east coast. < 1325928085 54036 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, San Francisco is world-famous for its sourdough < 1325928087 534894 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The culture is very different around here. < 1325928096 317654 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy dough culture < 1325928102 404116 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis < 1325928106 863753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hella dough! Wait, no, that's northerlywards of that isn't it. Fuck you guys. < 1325928108 291337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck America. < 1325928111 458502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't keep up with your bullshit. < 1325928119 66738 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1325928125 622766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys move too fast. < 1325928128 474184 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all living in america < 1325928141 288523 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everythings an america < 1325928143 11958 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :america, ist wunderbar < 1325928158 473618 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry that's "amerika" < 1325928166 773665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tm) < 1325928192 331683 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the city of San Juan... < 1325928206 907451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pronounced "So What".) < 1325928242 780960 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, category theory in #haskell < 1325928252 987692 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :excitement < 1325928253 143798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that better or worse? < 1325928258 176206 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :widely known for its production of indigo, coffee, sugar, tobacco, and silver < 1325928274 844805 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : A functor, F, is dense if Lan_F F ~ Id, and Y (the Yoneda embedding) is dense, so Lan_Y Y ~ Id Y /= Id clearly. < 1325928299 168973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exercise: Append "clearly" to every statement. < 1325928313 201739 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your exercise is trivial < 1325928317 863901 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1325928339 316890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You failed! < 1325928344 663175 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1325928353 73583 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i at least win a goat < 1325928358 500282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, clearly. < 1325928363 514941 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc would much rather have a goat than a car. < 1325928368 678555 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's true < 1325928379 815847 :Guest554114!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554115 < 1325928382 893804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goat-car. < 1325928383 684765 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goats are cheaper < 1325928395 276993 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.goatclassifieds.com/PriceGraph.php < 1325928409 679384 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Don't they emit more CO₂, though? < 1325928415 164168 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, per km? < 1325928416 153346 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU HATE THE ENVIRONMENT < 1325928424 697371 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per year. < 1325928465 260040 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, goat registration looks expensive. < 1325928470 502544 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way more than car registration. < 1325928478 928554 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably have to pay insurance too. < 1325928480 196189 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST HAVE RAINBOW PARENTHESES < 1325928507 73961 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. So I get home at 2:30. < 1325928510 512266 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I want to sleep? < 1325928521 577716 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, not really. < 1325928556 964198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time pikhq < 1325928557 756406 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for pikhq is Sat Jan 7 02:29:01 2012 < 1325928576 553337 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1325928579 703310 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for shachaf is Sat Jan 7 12:29:20 2012 < 1325928582 519627 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRONG < 1325928586 682402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time finland < 1325928653 854415 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :British Double Summertime would be a good name for a band < 1325928669 84433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many band names, so few bands. < 1325928673 401692 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :== < 1325928685 435420 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a website where i can share my bandnames with prospective band-havers? < 1325928739 374776 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time elliott < 1325928739 895346 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is 2012-01-07 09:32:03 +0000 < 1325928746 344236 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: And then pay you royalties? < 1325928748 57237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: /dev/null < 1325928748 373968 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I presume you've been up? < 1325928760 729599 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any band that picks a name using such a website isn't a band worth banding. < 1325928760 888868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I woke up at 2012-01-07 10:00:00. < 1325928778 263921 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still waiting for a band named BADNESS 10,000 < 1325928779 531142 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Impressive, considering that's in the future. < 1325928807 577230 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless somehow the UK's *not* on GMT right now? < 1325928817 10406 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I thought daylight saving was the summer, so...) < 1325928828 499482 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, maybe in the western hemisphere < 1325928871 884654 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how kmc accuses other people of being trolls. < 1325928876 505752 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325928878 800474 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i? < 1325928905 44029 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you? < 1325928906 542447 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greenwich Mean Time. < 1325928917 40089 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Greenwich isn't pronounced like Sandwich. < 1325928926 646080 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And apparently it's not moldy. < 1325928930 101754 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor mouldy. < 1325928945 816183 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it mouldey < 1325928947 972066 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I have to work hard to get myself to do it right, but it's something like Gren-ich, IIRC. < 1325928958 295556 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you going to Hac Boston? < 1325928975 331116 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, I am a pitifully broke college student and in Colorado. < 1325928991 17152 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should buy a ticket for pikhq instead of for me. < 1325929000 666736 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, i was going to do one of these things? < 1325929012 647038 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You weren't going to buy me a ticket? :-( < 1325929039 609118 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will have to walk to Boston now. < 1325929266 873964 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a walk, I imagine. < 1325929274 673069 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where are you, anyways?) < 1325929278 56478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boston < 1325929315 519950 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should hitchhike < 1325929319 490236 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so more "hella-long ride on the T" < 1325929337 126698 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: California. < 1325929347 189365 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *should* hitchhike! < 1325929350 306914 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be exciting. < 1325929354 832632 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would take a while < 1325929357 576084 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never hitchhiked a long distance. < 1325929369 978641 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can ask lexande about it < 1325929378 133470 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hitchhiked from sf to canada < 1325929382 617426 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also from cambridge uk to paris < 1325929383 824028 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's lexande? < 1325929392 707438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He hitchhiked over the sea? < 1325929393 824077 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine since longtime < 1325929394 616356 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in #cslounge sometime < 1325929396 534314 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325929398 366631 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1325929398 684033 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he did < 1325929407 219760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My definition of "hitchhiking" is car-specific. < 1325929415 521015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did he hitchhike in a car which then went on a ferry or something? < 1325929423 884410 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a car which went on a train which went through a tunnel < 1325929430 711494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll grant it. < 1325929430 867739 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what you said is also an option < 1325929432 218418 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked up a hitchhiker for a short distance once. My grandfather got very upset when he heard about that and told me that all hitchhikers are murderers. < 1325929447 452545 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially in the US. < 1325929450 200230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: At least you know how to become a murderer now. < 1325929459 191700 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an especially murderer < 1325929464 715518 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in the US if you don't have your own car then you're pretty much a terrorist < 1325929469 499856 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Without even breaking any laws! < 1325929505 997753 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I find that pretty amusing, considering we're heading down to 60s levels of violent crime. < 1325929535 301689 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people hitchhiked all the time in the 60s, I'm led to understand. < 1325929565 731114 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't mind my attorney, he's just admiring the shape of your skull < 1325929582 607438 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a very nice skull < 1325929601 196252 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would make a very nice glass. < 1325929662 521691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitchhiking: trading a cheap or free ride and the convenience of a stranger with the risks of being robbed, beaten, raped, kidnapped, brainwashed or murdered < 1325929690 634596 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stranger convenience < 1325929699 10667 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of the thrill < 1325929701 349744 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah in the 60's the CIA was going around kidnapping and brainwashing people < 1325929712 344471 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is hitchhiking addiction a thing < 1325929745 616684 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like skydiving or drugs but < 1325929749 358551 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more cars?? < 1325929768 10867 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of, is skydiving addiction a thing < 1325929773 749586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is sky a thing < 1325929800 720388 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like hitchhiking or drugs but < 1325929801 924207 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more sky < 1325929804 299697 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and diving?? < 1325929805 250203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325929808 262814 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's owned by rupert murdoch < 1325929823 779740 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: the trouble is that some would say skydiving lacks any utility.. and they might be right < 1325929835 731219 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use skydiving to get to work < 1325929848 604322 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Fun is a form of utility. < 1325929899 353651 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use fun to get to work < 1325929899 967873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1440x900 is so much nicer than 1336x768 < 1325929906 913423 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325929922 957216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mock me and my tiny screens will you < 1325929938 600376 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just funny because i've been agonizing over that difference < 1325929950 165791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decided it wasn't significant ;P < 1325929955 83678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you made the wrong choice < 1325929973 127851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i'm always scrolling around and resizing things and shit on the smaller resolution < 1325929983 960348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1440x900 is just enough to make that irrelevant < 1325929987 10696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the higher dpi is nice too < 1325929993 79264 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325930005 453335 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you people using these tiny resolutions? < 1325930008 320293 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a thinkpad x200s and i decided "upgrading" to the x220 would give me basically a slightly worse machine < 1325930015 35724 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1920x1080 is, like, the bare minimum, man. < 1325930015 194687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I used to think the same thing! < 1325930016 25987 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, i broke the lcd on my x200s :/ < 1325930025 906882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I got a computer which I can move about freely and put on my lap and shit without even thinking about it < 1325930034 726329 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use one of those too. < 1325930035 675079 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325930035 993518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really liberating for some weird reason < 1325930042 681364 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :15.6", 1920x1080 < 1325930046 817100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "Without thinking about it" is a low threshold. < 1325930061 958685 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think about it. < 1325930068 237046 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have you considered getting a 7 year old monitor? Like, 1920x1200? < 1325930069 627832 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have, what, 1680x1050? oops. < 1325930069 784061 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that just means I'm slow-witted. < 1325930080 724949 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Says I from a 1440x900 monitor. < 1325930084 174716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes a lot more to move a 15.6" laptop than a lightweight ~13" laptop, even if you don't consciously think about it. < 1325930092 796634 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking is hard < 1325930092 953273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: That would be rather heavier than my computer. < 1325930097 230772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Agreed. < 1325930103 358017 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: On the other hand this is my only computer. < 1325930109 723523 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leaving computer is hard < 1325930114 805305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Me too. Well, no, there's the 1336x768 one. < 1325930123 284004 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving computers is NP hard < 1325930125 717378 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't have an external monitor. < 1325930127 416955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Go to bed. < 1325930129 41521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Me too. < 1325930129 516998 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have.. five machines hooked up in my room < 1325930135 869688 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are good reasons for each one to exist, i swear! < 1325930136 25818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :My entire life is on this 13" display. < 1325930143 620866 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NEIN < 1325930143 779012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, not entire life. < 1325930146 266993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the parts that matter!! < 1325930161 949468 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Enumerate them. < 1325930169 38806 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1325930177 533055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1, 2, 3, 4, 5." < 1325930183 131509 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie wins. < 1325930189 957873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are the ThinkPad X-series machines nice, by the way? < 1325930197 89685 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, very nice < 1325930203 593279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR disliking them for some reason when I looked into them a few years ago. < 1325930207 799454 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-210-65.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1325930223 401173 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Istr. That's a name, isn't it? < 1325930243 32443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like an assmbly mnemonic. < 1325930253 887682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assmbly. < 1325930254 837712 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a book of the bible. < 1325930270 163474 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptop, wireless bridge, desktop, media server, laser cutter controller < 1325930306 808197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Wireless+bridge&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=IBcIT_LAJ4vY8QPAnIyeAQ#client=safari&rls=en&q=Wireless+bridge&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=shop&source=og&sa=N&tab=wf < 1325930317 672990 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much crap can Google put in one URL? < 1325930318 623336 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks google < 1325930329 141829 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you getting at sir < 1325930338 184627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You have a computer without a good reason to be a computer. < 1325930339 847492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1325930350 554684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I owned one of these I would consider it to be a computer < 1325930360 888360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I can disprove that. < 1325930368 482626 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe they are dumber than i think < 1325930370 691762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no possible way one of those causes as much pain and upset as any computer does. < 1325930376 870625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a computer can do that. < 1325930381 23469 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireless bridges are real people so they can't be computers < 1325930385 456536 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my wireless bridge "computer" provides very little pain and upset < 1325930393 922246 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an old netbook running debian < 1325930399 238817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That just means you're so drowning in computer-related pain and upset you don't even feel it. < 1325930406 602698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try throwing some out of the window. < 1325930411 245748 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's required basically zero maintenance since i set it up < 1325930415 684166 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Gk. biblion "paper, scroll," the ordinary word for "book," originally a diminutive of byblos "Egyptian papyrus," possibly so called from Byblos (modern Jebeil, Lebanon), the name of the Phoenician port from which Egyptian papyrus was exported to Greece (cf. parchment). Or the place name might be from the Greek word, which then would be probably of Egyptian origin. < 1325930421 277589 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you're right < 1325930429 542094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I think it's a book of the bible." < 1325930430 115354 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way to be sure i'm free of computer-related pain is to replace it all with macs < 1325930437 413190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck no. < 1325930442 845193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will approximately quadruple your pain. < 1325930447 288922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, after you stick OpenWRT on one and start to break things on it a bit, I'm sure it can generate a respectable amount of pain, if not quite real-computer levels. < 1325930457 257897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's turning it into a minicomputer. < 1325930465 511453 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe "minicomputer" < 1325930473 175129 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325930474 500598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also rip it apart and shove computer parts into it; that doesn't make the original thing a computer. < 1325930475 284920 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i'm running a vax emulator on my WRT54G < 1325930480 451487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Who isn't? < 1325930489 826889 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ? < 1325930499 513367 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-250-115.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325930500 146210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etymology of bible < 1325930500 339131 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map succ "vms" < 1325930501 99036 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "wnt" < 1325930505 84594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wnt. < 1325930505 996669 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you prefer "scroll of the bible"? < 1325930513 484907 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is bibble formed < 1325930517 232465 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: HEY THAT ONE'S MINE < 1325930522 559830 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking "book of the book" < 1325930560 973586 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: In particular, a book of the third of the three books of the bible, which is known as "the writings". < 1325930562 81537 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, I already had the netbook, so using it thus cost me $0, whereas the devices you linked cost > $0 < 1325930567 173770 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as i'm unemployed, my time has rather low value < 1325930589 45633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Ohh, you have an even better solution. Throw away *all* your computers, then you won't need the bridge thingy. < 1325930589 837503 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That latter sentence isn't really true. < 1325930595 734044 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325930643 29256 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can always reference a book in the bible codex book < 1325930684 65499 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to mention that it was a scroll. < 1325930712 839022 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody objected to "laser cutter controller"... < 1325930718 166106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you need a bridge? What are you doing? < 1325930727 861151 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, you control a boat with a laser? < 1325930728 972433 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1325930730 397590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :accessing the internet < 1325930742 155321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, that sounds like it produces significantly more fun than any pain it could cause. < 1325930743 165591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well sure but usually most people don't need bridges to do so < 1325930749 493408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you ever just feed it a random bitstring to see what happens? < 1325930753 866357 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325930757 821791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maybe the next thing it cuts... will be ME." < 1325930781 872244 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I hear elliott has a bridge to sell you. < 1325930789 943095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made out of @. < 1325930791 960693 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, my Internet connection is via roommates' wireless router < 1325930803 482354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, so just connect by the wlan? < 1325930806 235651 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :several of those machines have no wireless hardware < 1325930812 20045 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does kmc know what @ is? < 1325930818 402920 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, some nethack shit < 1325930818 561064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone truly know what @ is? < 1325930819 818357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : but nobody objected to "laser cutter controller"... <-- please tell me this refers to the boat type known as cutter :/ < 1325930823 785326 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325930825 488004 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a boat < 1325930826 597759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's some nethack shit. < 1325930827 706871 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on a fucking boat < 1325930836 503488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc drives his boat with his computer on his boat. < 1325930842 427824 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, great! < 1325930850 693832 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be interpreting the word "bridge" in a more precise technical sense than i meant < 1325930873 890797 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transatlantic bridge. < 1325930875 965759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Can you imagine going through life not knowing what @ is? < 1325930888 473936 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. I cannot imagine it. < 1325930895 630092 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The suffering kmc must be undergoing. < 1325930898 518656 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a Debian GNU/Linux machine with one wireless and one wired Ethernet interface, the former in Managed mode, serving DHCP and DNS on the latter, with NAT routing between the two < 1325930907 377620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: One day you will be at peace. < 1325930911 333526 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325930917 349392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Peace of @. < 1325930933 740127 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should write an @ tutorial. < 1325930936 413854 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full of analogies. < 1325930941 292045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is like an @. < 1325930948 417429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The basic operations on @s are @ and @. < 1325930950 600550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ : @ -> @ < 1325930951 235964 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A-ha! < 1325930959 628066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ : @ < 1325930959 786713 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we know that what @ expands to starts with a vowel! < 1325930964 176943 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least a glottal stop. < 1325930965 959480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Um, dude. < 1325930971 86736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know that. < 1325930974 568122 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an @" < 1325930975 360129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to be an intentionally-bad tutorial. < 1325930979 981996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not necessarily well-written. < 1325930982 882088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1325930985 459379 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1325931108 507652 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilarious < 1325931131 2686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you seriously not know what @ is? < 1325931137 229562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand it's cool to deny The Knowledge. < 1325931140 587679 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325931142 921695 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly < 1325931146 793887 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1325931147 269776 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1325931151 808070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Okay. You know how computers suck? < 1325931160 901993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ changes all that; with @, they only mostly suck. < 1325931166 7674 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently @ is "at"... but that would be presumptuous < 1325931173 717964 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, go on < 1325931179 409796 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: @ is basically the embodiment of elliott's hubris. < 1325931184 848247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, that's you. < 1325931188 716410 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, it would be if it existed. < 1325931190 251390 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is a miracle drug < 1325931194 622633 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1325931196 205383 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* I don't exist! < 1325931201 576423 :AnotherTest!~Test@94-224-27-107.access.telenet.be PART :#esoteric < 1325931201 893879 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-28.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*disappears* < 1325931203 956162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: hi, does chocolate still contain sugar? < 1325931206 328718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw < 1325931212 99968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You know how computers are all imperative and ugly and shit? < 1325931222 475998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, like, buggy, and shit. < 1325931224 677591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ changes all that! < 1325931228 508888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're only mostly buggy. < 1325931240 676955 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1325931247 751778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, that not enough for you? < 1325931268 733437 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're not very good at this. < 1325931281 465606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I estimate that kmc currently harbours 0 negative thoughts about @. < 1325931346 855923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: @ is an environment thingy. < 1325931358 642781 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: elliott was just imitating your use of "an @" i think < 1325931366 338735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Mostly consisting of a runtime system. < 1325931435 97502 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog an @ < 1325931444 455905 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol.. < 1325931457 127335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:02:28 is there any good tutorials/blogs on the Store comonad? < 1325931465 139540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What is it with people and wanting Store comonad tutorials lately? < 1325931473 575672 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24714 < 1325931487 763387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325931514 927202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone fix " `pastelog an @ " for me < 1325931522 805932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why it doesn't work. < 1325931533 73793 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1325931542 868832 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`presentelog < 1325931547 276993 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: presentelog: not found < 1325931556 348787 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not caused by a @ < 1325931563 983331 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog deep breath < 1325931576 933799 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22681 < 1325931606 282615 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog breath < 1325931614 141805 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19658 < 1325931689 542778 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you just look at the logs? < 1325931698 217399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325931707 91683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ how does mouthbreathing make your teeth crowded. < 1325931711 92252 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you search them online? < 1325931739 233973 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog inhale < 1325931746 486288 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21914 < 1325931747 869295 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think what shachaf means is, how to overcome [too many lines; stopping] ? < 1325931787 751475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't. < 1325931793 930429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there to stop a timeout. < 1325931795 407070 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Well, ideally I don't want my search to be logged publicly. < 1325931799 289596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tough. < 1325931802 256786 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1325931803 538859 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325931807 274203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Download the logs yourself if you must. < 1325931816 654710 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: how to search esoteric logs online < 1325931822 336079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't. < 1325931830 816212 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up: esoteric goats < 1325931835 902430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goat < 1325931847 287668 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think kmc has lost all interest in @. < 1325931855 112959 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like you, elliott. < 1325931868 406347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1325931872 705846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog @ < 1325931876 841915 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3499 < 1325931895 710784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-07-25.txt:03:21:16: -!- andreou changed the modes of #esoteric: +b *!*@bespin.org < 1325931895 866974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-07-25.txt:03:25:04: -!- andreou changed the modes of #esoteric: +b clog!*@* < 1325931895 867177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-07-26.txt:03:28:36: HATE HATE SYSAD@$%!$%!#$!@#$@#NO CARRIER < 1325931896 820359 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SamB used to be in here? < 1325931897 164245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1325931901 178214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1325931905 701614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't he a #python guy? < 1325931911 358071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we had a lot of #python guys in the olden day.s < 1325931912 363280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :days. < 1325931913 155844 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is? < 1325931917 219865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily. < 1325931920 201204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was just a random guess. < 1325931921 263873 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's certainly a #haskell person. < 1325931924 11135 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was. < 1325931924 962138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325931925 488008 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SamB_XP < 1325931928 233743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably just that, then. < 1325931935 562969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk has been in here a few times too. < 1325931939 56009 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he's British, so you probably know him. < 1325931943 849887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before he MONOPOLISED THE HASKELLOSPHERE. < 1325932043 618045 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog haskell < 1325932047 559544 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13599 < 1325932072 383612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2005-07-26.txt:07:13:31: it's written in haskell, I compiled it using ghc, usage is bf2c < brainfuck-source > c-source. no options. < 1325932073 338014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! < 1325932077 256443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if _he_ is the author of that compiler. < 1325932160 912144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:14:24: -!- andreou has joined #esoteric. < 1325932161 107257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:35: erm < 1325932161 107457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:43: anyone has halflife/counterstrike serial or keygen? < 1325932162 508663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:46: pleeeaaazeeee ;p < 1325932164 480261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:22:13: -!- andreou has quit (). < 1325932166 855848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you know our channel used to be great? < 1325932193 992584 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You think you've got it bad? < 1325932197 7122 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try #nethack < 1325932230 400813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, right now or in general? < 1325932236 56320 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: To fully appreciate my statement, /cs info #esoteric and examine the "founder" field. < 1325932258 181916 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wow < 1325932261 184261 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:30 -!- Irssi: Unknown command: cs < 1325932268 128592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg chanserv < 1325932271 346637 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes. < 1325932271 502590 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, try /msg chanserv < 1325932271 979880 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :womp womp < 1325932278 415974 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, are you sick of #haskell too < 1325932296 466397 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes. < 1325932304 745222 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enough to leave it, so far. < 1325932314 201846 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are your complaints < 1325932316 642298 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do /msg chanserv < 1325932327 822051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not going to get any better unless moderation steps up. < 1325932328 139412 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do /^msg chanserv < 1325932335 659274 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what's the difference? < 1325932336 944644 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really make an alias for it < 1325932347 964048 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/^msg doesn't open a new window < 1325932365 801044 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if I want a new window? < 1325932369 965176 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're bad < 1325932385 733133 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's full of people who don't know what they're talking about talking to other people who don't know what they're talking about. < 1325932387 793566 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog < 1325932391 484084 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325932394 637591 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: that's in irssi? ^msg is an unknown command according to my client < 1325932397 297520 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spreading general nonsense back and forth with very little signal. < 1325932400 698840 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah < 1325932402 483841 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.19986 < 1325932405 920061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG THIS GUY KEEPS PROPOSING < 1325932410 962663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"READABILITY IMPROVEMENTS" < 1325932411 121415 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, chanserv didn't respond anyway < 1325932415 157453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT INEVITABLY MISUSE BULLETED LISTS TERRIBLY < 1325932416 234683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE < 1325932423 174638 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not always the case, but when the channel reaches a critical mass of nonsense it gets pretty annoying. < 1325932424 171476 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the < 1325932436 930276 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it doesn't seem that bad... any question will get about 8 answers, 6 of which are correct / useful < 1325932442 718564 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck does that mean :D < 1325932450 704585 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the general IRC thing where people ask the same questions over and over and over again. < 1325932452 447529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://ompldr.org/vYzQ2NA < 1325932456 235009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at this shit! < 1325932463 250404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE TEACH THIS GUY WHAT BULLETED LISTS ARE FOR < 1325932470 851112 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And people who are bad at asking questions are overrepresented in terms of channel volume. < 1325932486 293110 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, wouldn't it be great if someone made a wiki page with the frequently-asked questions and standard answers, which can be edited and improved < 1325932491 784390 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION not bitter, I swear < 1325932506 226568 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I thoroughly approve of your efforts! < 1325932511 465151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: And crowd-sourced it, and gave incentives for doing so. < 1325932511 821517 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks shachaf < 1325932514 989222 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even made some comments once, if I remember correctly. < 1325932522 582006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And called it, I dunno, Fencepost Error. < 1325932523 298919 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what incentives do you propose < 1325932525 239708 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going so far as to edit it myself is, y'know... < 1325932526 191548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation Fault. < 1325932530 50456 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolz i get it < 1325932542 329857 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :General Protection Fault < 1325932592 772751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A nice way to do it might be basically having a big string -> SO answer mapping. < 1325932608 19696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea being that you cherry-pick well-worded questions and good answers and can just grep it whenever a predictable question comes up. < 1325932610 30403 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I get enough points on Stack Overflow, maybe Joel Spolsky will hire me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1325932613 392512 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1325932618 325520 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!123 < 1325932619 376968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Then you'd have to work for Joel Spolsky. < 1325932633 669526 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog < < 1325932636 223286 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he understands that I value free soda higher than respect or a paycheck < 1325932637 212868 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.20792 < 1325932643 746860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm... me too. < 1325932657 136777 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A person in another channel I'm in is StackOverflow user #13 < 1325932666 532883 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, wow, you're internet famous < 1325932670 975334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Chris Jester-Young is, like, the worst, man. < 1325932671 292242 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: TOTALLY < 1325932678 704227 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why? < 1325932684 57699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I dunno, I just keyed in the number. < 1325932689 230757 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...This channel happens to be #stackoverflow. < 1325932690 498044 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, chanserv's response ended up in the #haskell window < 1325932709 371210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: chanserv responses go wherever :P < 1325932713 131679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're notices < 1325932732 3320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, in many clients notices ends up in a channel where that person who sent it happens to be < 1325932735 979268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of stupid < 1325932737 825007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Well *I'm* Stack Overflow user #1097181! Take that! < 1325932744 143199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO they should go into a separate notice tab < 1325932745 252036 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or suc < 1325932747 313441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :such* < 1325932754 401773 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I'm not reading anything that happens in #haskell, it was just not very useful for the response to end up there < 1325932765 338286 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the issue < 1325932772 225718 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-01-19.txt:06:09:05: yay, nothing at all. < 1325932779 345835 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NOT AS COOL AS STACKOVERFLOW USER "MOMAN" < 1325932781 272461 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed ChanServ is in #haskell and not in any other freenode channel I'm in < 1325932859 92377 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog http < 1325932863 598168 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24538 < 1325932944 102295 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, anyway I think the cluefulness of the average #haskell answer is pretty high < 1325932955 960895 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is more than everyone has their own pet way of explaining everything < 1325932961 670772 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they trip all over each other trying to do it < 1325932968 609869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am quite good at devising `pastelog queries < 1325932975 491195 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then get derailed in endless arguments over terminology and teaching strategy < 1325932980 788374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its on my CV < 1325932980 947246 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this is what i did too < 1325932983 480618 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i got sick of it < 1325933017 435791 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's part of the problem, I agree. < 1325933029 361574 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1325933042 176158 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just call things that aren't my pet theory "nonsense". < 1325933048 10085 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog changed the topic < 1325933053 133486 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11439 < 1325933070 900874 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think it's just that. < 1325933078 271408 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the answers are skewed by a heavy dose of politics < 1325933086 435200 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Politics? < 1325933096 26189 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you don't really want regex / an IDE / a debugger, those things are for Java weenies, that's why we don't have them" < 1325933112 797627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one problem with #haskell is that there are a lot of well-intentioned good Haskell programmers who aren't any good at explaining things or maybe hold some weird unpopular Haskell-related view (and might not even know it's weird), and if they engage a newbie enough at an early stage they kinda work that worldview into their subsequent questions, and so everyone gets really confused trying to decode their warped newbiespeak. < 1325933112 953827 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi < 1325933118 752982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I could be imagining that. < 1325933125 702646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no that's the impression I've gotten. < 1325933130 413185 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325933149 183578 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you think the monad tutorial analogies are an example of that? < 1325933155 465889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: definitely < 1325933194 334176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally someone asks "what are monads?" and people go into the standard "keep reading LYAH" talk but someone says "I wrote a tutorial about monads: " and the newbie goes "oh, thanks, I'll read that!" because it sounds more concrete. < 1325933206 976959 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325933207 928133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how you could solve that other than punishing linking monad tutorials, which would probably be unpopular. < 1325933227 682925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically we need to divide people into questioners and answerers and ban answerers who step out of the party line. :p < 1325933240 377676 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is too much hype about monads, so people want to read A Monad Tutorial rather than just some chapter in the book < 1325933247 282178 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they want to read it way too early < 1325933284 781115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be really great when we switch to a different primary system for modelling effects and can finally have people not ask about monads any more. < 1325933312 97255 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most of the people who claim to "know Haskell" are very far from being able to write large, practical software in Haskell < 1325933330 964662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think #haskell would be basically impossible to police effectively without coming across as fascist, because it's essentially an undistinguished muddle where everyone gets a completely equal voice, and there's a heavy IRC culture of only banning for outright abusive behaviour. < 1325933335 363368 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that most of the people who can do the latter don't hang out on IRC < 1325933345 946580 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably a jerk / elitist thing for me to say, but there you go < 1325933350 797290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just too large to rely on the fact that most people active are experienced. < 1325933377 374063 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so what if you started a new channel, #haskell-fascists, with explicit policies < 1325933379 511917 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hey, my version of that would probably include names. Although that's also the reason I wouldn't say it. < 1325933406 768120 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame allocation is always difficult < 1325933410 763666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, a spinoff with more tightly enforced rules would be nice, but (a) nobody will go there, because it's not #haskell; (b) it'd be really hard to gain momentum — "go here and we'll be dicks about your answering!". < 1325933434 56262 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the hope is to lure the burnt-out veterans < 1325933440 359250 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :first < 1325933465 495643 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would join such a channel. < 1325933465 970917 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it would work < 1325933470 541159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Could you stop it devolving into veteran chit-chat before it comes useful? It's one of the cliquiest initial seed groups you could pick, even if it's the best from a long-run POV. < 1325933471 651295 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it may not even be a good idea anyway. I don't think it would be a place with a good channel culture. < 1325933472 443679 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, with me, that's not saying much. < 1325933495 285869 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think most people just don't care that much, because they have better things to do with their time anyway < 1325933515 492075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: #haskell doesn't really have a culture any more, beyond the constant bouts of regulars joking. < 1325933517 299754 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really don't < 1325933523 424386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325933529 826751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you reach a certain mass you have to be utilitarian about what the channel is trying to achieve, and it's not social. < 1325933535 889705 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think one big problem is the internet < 1325933536 46008 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can keep helping people learn haskell with low commitment and low stress to me < 1325933538 864536 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i wanna keep doing that < 1325933545 527513 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet is surely bad for haskell < 1325933556 137279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely. < 1325933556 613454 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes wonder what brings some of the people in #haskell to #haskell. < 1325933567 106195 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell programmers probably are best left to code in relative isolation < 1325933573 989128 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at workplaces < 1325933594 39242 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, on the contrary, I think #haskell is essential because they don't fucking write down all the important shit you need to know < 1325933604 203066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think transmitting some minor misunderstandings through a question-answer method of learning are to be expected. This isn't a phenomenon unique to Haskell, but it may be more problematic because there's a lot of information to be wrong about. < 1325933627 303672 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Except for over and over and over again in IRC-sized snippets. < 1325933628 429132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I get plenty of incorrect information from people on #perl < 1325933629 958214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's not minor understandings, it's that almost every question turns into a definitions debate. < 1325933638 157602 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see. < 1325933641 399776 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the trouble here is that most people learn regular languages by buying books at a bookstore, bringing it home.. and doing it < 1325933647 266888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be OK, if anyone ever conceded, but they don't, because everyone thinks they're #1 enlightened Haskell thinker. < 1325933649 802035 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's happened once with me on #perl as well. it was silly. < 1325933655 414271 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or borrowing library books < 1325933659 795923 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to write Haskell code: 1) write some code 2) shit don't work 3) lurk #haskell for two years until you see an off-hand description of the thing you are missing < 1325933676 751982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is #1 enlightened Haskell thinker. < 1325933678 38575 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorry to bring this to light.. < 1325933682 827871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Anyway, I think the situation is simply that IRC can't support effective support communities beyond a certain size. < 1325933687 506654 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but irc is not good for learning something < 1325933694 362123 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and LYAH + RWH is still maybe half of what you need to know, imo < 1325933695 299151 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's helpful sometimes. < 1325933706 56820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It relies essentially on human intervention to function correctly, but that's impossible beyond a certain volume, and the culture is biased against it. < 1325933706 692190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : When you reach a certain mass you have to be utilitarian about what the channel is trying to achieve, and it's not social. < 1325933710 229864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, metadiscussion. < 1325933714 672738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: About #haskell. < 1325933738 888335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A real-time format optimised for discussion/learning would be an interesting thing. < 1325933750 96566 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325933761 903727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SO handles the long-form Q&A stuff perfectly, but obviously its "chat" feature is just IRC with editing and Markdown, so that's worthless. < 1325933762 585020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could call it "IRC but with more bots" < 1325933773 633400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the false association between haskell and the internet < 1325933781 664444 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this creates a lot of problems < 1325933785 78201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I think you really need something like separate discussions. < 1325933797 468330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A newbie asking a question should have their answer detached from the monad tutorial jokes going on concurrently. < 1325933812 890662 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual way to learn is to get a poorly written book on a topic.. read it.. go off halfcocked < 1325933832 726272 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then get corrected by people and taught again, more painfullly < 1325933847 700905 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325933851 692042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's usual method of language learning is reading half a tutorial, getting bored, and then returning a year later to find out he can code competently in the language. < 1325933857 352598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it's the long haul of learning all the APIs. < 1325933863 788087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1325933868 582516 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tutorials are dependant on the internet < 1325933888 601761 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the internet is good for learning...... maybe < 1325933889 775644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cycle is a bit longer with Haskell :) < 1325933889 934079 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325933892 886254 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that works when the language is just new syntax for another language you already know < 1325933906 212709 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmmm yes that' a good idea. With a good interface it would be feasible. < 1325933915 646508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yeah, it's not a general-case thing. But it did get me started with Haskell. < 1325933943 991716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already had knowledge of Scheme and such, so half of YAHT + later half of LYAH were enough to brew into a basic working knowledge. < 1325933967 86112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced you can teach Haskell from the bottom-up. < 1325933973 34819 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the reading a book and doing exercises can teach 80% of something.. and then irc could teach that last 20% < 1325933975 730059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to someone who already knows a language. < 1325933981 4741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The temptation to analogise is just too much. < 1325933987 286361 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember what he read to understand monads. < 1325933993 863833 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need some sort of brainwashing drug < 1325934030 334790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: analogizing isn't that damaging.. < 1325934039 50340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, it is with Haskell. < 1325934045 243799 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :..the Haskell cult is seeking a brainwashing drug to indoctrinate their fanboys. I knew it! < 1325934053 366732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, just banning chat outright would probably make #haskell better than it is, but it'd be stifling. < 1325934063 822075 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by 'chat' < 1325934065 782928 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't know Haskell, so you don't know the nature of the problem. < 1325934099 504712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Up to the op's whim, of course :P But broadly "anything not in the process of furthering an actual question or discussion". < 1325934105 750261 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325934106 593234 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, itidus21 is a burrito. < 1325934113 46612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I think the problem in this case is a lack of easy to find literature that corresponds to exactly what you need to know.' < 1325934116 898934 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really like that people in #haskell will talk about the language without having some concrete question at hand < 1325934124 476176 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting stuff comes out of that discussion < 1325934132 417121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's why I said it'd be stifling. < 1325934146 285964 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the endless injokes (like the one Sgeo just made) are probably a group-identity thing < 1325934155 76728 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its well meaning but misguided views about the learning process.. you can't just drop analogies < 1325934159 919224 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is the cool kids club in programming, of course < 1325934161 918406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you could solve a good chunk of the issues #haskell has simply by having a discussion organisation system. < 1325934163 225037 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like trying to drop subvocalization in order to speed read < 1325934167 743864 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so we all want to indicate we're in the club < 1325934182 130371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem of discussions being relevant to each other is less than the problem of all discussions being mushed together into one gigantic stream. < 1325934183 86939 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325934203 71346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I mostly just do it for cheap jokes. < 1325934220 48452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really want to be thought of as a Haskell programmer, although that probably doesn't stop anyone. < 1325934228 620125 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're special < 1325934241 228252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You forgot shachaf! He also does it for the cheap jokes. < 1325934250 956053 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is also special < 1325934256 684414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell-special < 1325934259 513774 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325934263 969784 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was about to say that < 1325934281 458610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"functor? I 'ardly knew 'er." < 1325934307 361465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION good joke. original. < 1325934315 28568 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i admit that there should be a feeling that they are going down a rabbit hole as a world of counter-intuitive mathematical concepts descends upon them... but even then i think they are guided by analogy < 1325934331 233738 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :counter-intuitive? < 1325934336 545105 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical? < 1325934348 622767 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'm special? < 1325934350 845206 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't following. < 1325934352 220950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Now would be a good time to note that itidus21 doesn't know a single lick of Haskell. < 1325934360 787281 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :farmers usually don't know math < 1325934361 580303 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gathered as much < 1325934371 920209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION esteemed member of joke-clique < 1325934373 187406 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 seems a bit like zzo38 to me < 1325934376 275216 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :joklique < 1325934378 594984 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :from small info < 1325934380 676965 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is because you have to basically sit at a table for years before it can occur to you < 1325934388 530692 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not intuitive < 1325934392 704475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What, you don't think zzo38 knows a lot? < 1325934402 624959 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he clearly does < 1325934412 953433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He certainly does, it's just that he performs a completely different function on that knowledge to everyone else in the universe. < 1325934444 632889 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 seems to know Haskell pretty well < 1325934453 495088 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well enough to identify all the ways it's unlike INFORM 7 or Magic: The Gathering < 1325934467 254072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325934482 39142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you read one of his Haskell programs? < 1325934488 308607 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is my best #esoteric friend. < 1325934491 378039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!logs < 1325934585 637851 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know why hilbert cared about halting problem.. i don't know why turing and church cared about decision problem.. i don't know what neumann was after either < 1325934622 133436 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1325934629 141610 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, i don't know what the purpose of computation is < 1325934647 112201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: See? #esoteric is the bets < 1325934648 111923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :best. < 1325934649 712154 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, what if we're, like, all a computer, man < 1325934653 770656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how i could convince a child why it's better than candy < 1325934676 493286 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens up emacs. "It's time... to make portal chess happen." < 1325934685 44660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doing it. He's making it happen. < 1325934685 862754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it all just about making slave machines? < 1325934690 107447 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks "It's interesting" is a sufficient answer to why someone would be interested in a mathematical subject. < 1325934693 882215 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we're lazy? :D < 1325934720 924729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: If this darn log download wasn't going so slowly you'd have a wonderful zzoskell program right now. < 1325934727 298106 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1325934751 572366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, do continuous chess and we won't hate you any more. < 1325934783 351322 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry I don't feed off of the esteem given to me by peers. :> < 1325934791 850840 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how would you even do that. < 1325934800 531393 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating point numbers? ha. ha. ha. < 1325934817 981859 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq, like I said. < 1325934819 250608 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna sleep, ttyl < 1325934828 962285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: But the log download just finished! < 1325934831 746584 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325934840 705754 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: good night, sir. < 1325934843 684989 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night < 1325934873 35119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://sprunge.us/bCgV < 1325934874 145661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: anyway, portal chess is a much better game than continuous chess. < 1325934879 594870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the consistent use of whitespace. < 1325934917 426627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel a little sick. < 1325934926 600907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It is the Scottish Illness. < 1325934961 665666 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: did you ever give continuous chess a consistent, sane set of rules that are easy to play and decidable? < 1325934976 528061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO 'easy to play' and 'decidable'. < 1325934976 684425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Two of those principles go directly against the spirit of continuous chess. < 1325934985 929168 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm. sane , decidable? < 1325934994 610066 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :rules? < 1325934997 165885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy? < 1325935000 231521 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :play? < 1325935008 952156 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not decidable, but that's not a problem for Coq. < 1325935021 561978 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You give it the proof that your move is correct. < 1325935067 685012 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we say that the parts and the composites are both classed as objects, and that we can only perform operations on objects, and that all operations have equal weight, then there is the tradeoff that group operations are faster but clumsier < 1325935071 847226 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1325935101 118846 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what this means < 1325935105 675124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither. < 1325935136 393374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. if the operation on a ball is throwing < 1325935157 530856 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh this is probably a really dumb question. But how did I get a module structure where there's X and X.Y < 1325935158 484985 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to uh.. moving each individual molecule of the ball < 1325935164 1407 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I just make X.hs and X/Y.hs ? < 1325935167 208343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ...yes < 1325935444 471560 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog terminal < 1325935463 266178 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11767 < 1325935492 90813 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog itidus21 < 1325935499 202210 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935511 386933 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :71) I want to read about Paris in the period 1900-1914 not about the sexual preferences of a bunch of writers >.> < 1325935512 847783 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5623 < 1325935528 508047 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935529 512211 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :680) I personally use while ("Cogito, ergo sum") { ... } because since that is a priori true, it is true in all possible universes, and therefore ensures maximum portability. < 1325935531 197386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 71 < 1325935535 116174 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* I want to read about Paris in the period 1900-1914 not about the sexual preferences of a bunch of writers >.> < 1325935539 514017 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935539 989694 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935540 306786 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1325935546 723437 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :112) use "grep --crazy" < 1325935604 225557 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :306) Phantom_Hoover: mutation is often considerably harder for both humans and compilers can analyze it much more difficult' part that induces bloody vomit... huh....intriguing < 1325935604 875897 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :315) elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet < 1325935673 718339 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, fungot really has the right idea about mutation :) < 1325935673 877240 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you really wish your side. < 1325935790 274764 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and fungot just reminded me of a terrible book I read when I was young < 1325935790 433450 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: really, it is a free card in your sylladex. she is holding. it appears the red glass. you are starting to get agitated about < 1325935829 459959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325935847 412979 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Wishing-Well-Making-Your-Every/dp/0786884738/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1325935808&sr=8-14 < 1325935852 592132 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lapped it up when I was a kid < 1325935869 838971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with lies from that terrible Ian Stewart. < 1325935906 663141 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was wiki'ing io and found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28programming_language%29 < 1325935916 596760 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks curious < 1325935999 137967 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, am I not allowed to rant about an ending of an authors book without it being perceived as a slight against the author? < 1325936035 312172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, interestingly I think portal chess pieces keep the same relative ordering of importance as they do in traditional chess < 1325936041 915979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no, the queen is lower than the two rooks < 1325936072 732098 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone on the discussion page of Io made some other wiki contribution "04:06, 27 May 2005 (diff | hist) Esoteric programming language ‎ (→External links: added link to esolang wiki) " < 1325936081 279518 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :small world < 1325936099 120960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: I see you've discovered io < 1325936130 616406 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes i explained such quite formally < 1325936151 150007 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess what i left out is i was looking for input/output < 1325936365 867097 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325936423 918258 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the esolang homepage has been spammed again.. since i dont know how often this happens not sure of the urgency of announcing such < 1325936482 598183 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com < 1325936844 754120 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325936925 49887 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325937061 803917 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t generate < 1325937062 596180 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: `generate' < 1325937073 687683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle generate < 1325937074 4503 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.Hints GenerateMipmap :: HintTarget < 1325937074 163142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.Texturing.Parameters generateMipmap :: TextureTarget -> StateVar Capability < 1325937074 319474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GLU.Quadrics GenerateTextureCoordinates :: QuadricTexture < 1325937600 970969 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a name for non-pawn chess pieces < 1325937632 354281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they're just called "pieces" < 1325937635 511693 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pawns are called pawns. < 1325937741 505382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Down with the arbitrary piece class divisions. < 1325937764 313360 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a piece, I am a human being! < 1325937832 468145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, have some of PWP's pseudo-philosophy-bullshit on the topic of chess pieces on an unexpanded VIC-20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O19SNCIf1rk -- four kilobytes should be enough for everyone, right? < 1325937869 198003 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to figure out how to use records in a way that's not ugly < 1325937870 942106 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one sadly I think lacks the "speech synthesizer". < 1325937917 414818 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (//) < 1325937917 574173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Array.IArray (//) :: (IArray a e, Ix i) => a i e -> [(i, e)] -> a i e < 1325937917 731793 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Array (//) :: Ix i => Array i e -> [(i, e)] -> Array i e < 1325937956 603407 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325938025 201028 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats pretty cool < 1325938032 109611 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325938191 491727 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1325938359 440232 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pawn = ?. board = ?. death = ?. ? = ?. < 1325938384 493456 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> '?' == '?' < 1325938385 284979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1325938459 834708 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? <- board -> ? < 1325938492 700911 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :board <- board -> board ? < 1325938509 22396 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah screw it < 1325938514 549985 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :board < 1325938540 185203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity <- board -> infinity ? < 1325938554 67073 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325938555 794518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :▒ < 1325938573 263400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble is it goes into 2 dimensions.. < 1325938586 472979 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity <- board -> infinity ? ! < 1325938604 366293 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity <- board -> infinity ! < 1325938629 371488 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinity X board X infinity ! < 1325938629 530050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The board is just 6x6 in the bubbles. :/ < 1325938683 736274 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :! ▒ X infinity ! < 1325938756 565143 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :black pawn > white pawn?; knight > pawn?; queen or king(?) > knight? < 1325938771 971828 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :black pawn = white pawn!; knight = pawn!; queen or king(?) = knight! < 1325938817 159303 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325938857 332857 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some continuous chess thoughts which I have since forgotten < 1325938872 169556 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a continuous chess writeup once on chessvariants < 1325938902 390764 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that; it's a pale shadow of true continuous chess. < 1325938911 31209 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol... pawn + hand hand = pawn with hands < 1325938918 554425 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :▒ ⨯ ∞ and ♟♞♝♜♛♚♙♘♗♖♕♔ and so on; Unicode power. < 1325938925 447514 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325938931 57729 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pawn with hands > pawn ! < 1325938940 928423 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1325938942 990121 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pawn with hands > king !! < 1325938944 100191 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :those all work in my current font! < 1325938953 176981 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is... fixedsys excelsior! < 1325938980 605249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: The chesspieces are in the old-and-well-established "miscellaneous symbols" block. < 1325939010 191369 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric < 1325939012 955485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! 4 pawns with hands > pyramid eye symbol !!! < 1325939062 877570 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the chessvariants continuous chess is merely space-continuous. < 1325939154 936048 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am i? what is the world? what is death? what is what? ... what is beyond the board? infinity! are black pawns better than white pawns? are knights better than pawns? are kings better than knights? < 1325939175 804544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have I done. < 1325939227 129736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1325939269 396 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :black pawns are equal to white pawns! knights are equal to pawns! kings are equal to knights! pawns with hands are better than pawns. pawns with hands are better than kings. together, pawns with hands are unsurpassed. < 1325939284 646477 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats my translation < 1325939420 90406 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the matrix of chess :P < 1325939503 688928 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that i could interpret all that without any text is kind of cool < 1325939510 702466 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im impressed < 1325939595 19126 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, the thing I was trying to fix was the interaction between the capture and nonintersection rules. < 1325939625 498516 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325939707 755659 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325939728 849348 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the line between f(p) and p contains piece of the opposite colour, then either f(p) must lie on that piece or some other piece must capture it. < 1325939739 207823 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325939747 492255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This makes capture possible, as it happens. < 1325939781 373106 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i don't understand why philosophy + retro gaming + symbols is so interesting < 1325939805 150677 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is very cool < 1325939839 479910 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : This one sadly I think lacks the "speech synthesizer". < 1325939852 87978 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something something something speech recognition sucks? < 1325939861 443681 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott's better at this than me. < 1325939864 14890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synthesis, not recognition! < 1325939865 321752 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes. < 1325939927 885844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does PWP stand for? < 1325939955 473637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... "Pers' Wastaiset Produktiot", if I recall correctly. < 1325939998 698276 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finding cool stuff is easy enough. Viewing it is easy enough. Recognizing that it would be therefore a good thing to be involved in is easy enough. < 1325940019 756130 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trouble is this other detail of trying to find a purpose for being involved. < 1325940049 912508 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The negative proof that X isn't necessarily the best use of your time. < 1325940060 597029 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325940086 986427 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 NICK :Guest84924 < 1325940103 154098 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest554115, quick, say something nasty about speech recognition. < 1325940116 453994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you can try to measure it... If I did X would I regret spending my time that way. If I did Y would I regret it? < 1325940118 504690 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's, like... uh, fi:perse = en:arse; fi:vastainen (adj.) = something like the anti-, in-, un- prefixes in English, and spelling it with 'w' makes it "old-fashiony", like Ye Olde Englishe; and fi:produktiot = en:productions. < 1325940171 676269 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speech recognition is for Finns. < 1325940175 699492 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can try to measure and compare the regret of investing time in X compared to the regret of investing time in nothing. < 1325940177 618840 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE ULTIMATE INSULT. < 1325940184 669197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: See http://pelulamu.net/pwp/ -- or maybe don't. < 1325940195 192234 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any time he uses technical terms, ask for their meaning. There are many countries, which take part in offshore web site style; the most well known are India, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Philippines. It's also not a problem - you can make payment by credit card, PayPal, wire transfer, Western Union, etc. This will conserve you cash, time and effort in the long run. Here are some facts and figures from across the U. For the mil < 1325940195 351954 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lions of web surfers out there, your web style is their first impression of your business and your credibility. If you are shopping for web style quotes, don't forget to ask the web style vendor some simple issues: Do you grant client references? Will I be capable to edit my own web pages? Are the web sites you pattern search engine friendly? Is logo style incorporated in the web quote? How many pattern concepts and revisi < 1325940195 508203 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ons will you give? Avoid the Template Trap. The problem with Web templates is that they are closed systems. The big difference between advertising and not trading on the web, and being found or buried on page 15 of the search engine benefits, is know-how in building a search engine friendly site. < 1325940196 807486 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : However, it's not a 100% guarantee. There are plenty of web designers offered. Executing your homework and asking the correct requests is significant to decide if they are correct for the job. What does your ongoing web site style say about your business? Does it portray a professional, reliable business? If not here's a few tips for finding and selecting a web designer. NJ Web Designer Other industries, like food processing < 1325940198 891382 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or construction, aren't so strict about academic qualifications, but they do have standards that have to be met - like health and safety or food hygiene standards. If that is the case, do you have the original graphic that can be emailed? It will be crucial to make use of that on your web site. Their promotion can inform you on how well they promote others. The key issue in web pattern is how to add value to the user's experience < 1325940200 834366 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :, how to make them feel that they truly got something out of browsing your web site. < 1325940202 754023 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The pages load easily, you thought. The more individuals you have to test your web site, the more thorough your benefits will be. If this is the case it's not a serious problem, although you could ask your web designer to precise them. A few minutes? It's regular if this is a Flash site simply because usually the overall site is loaded at one time, not only the home page; or it's a Flash intro which goes ahead entering the site an < 1325940204 773475 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d also can load longer simply because of movie and sound. < 1325940206 896845 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Web designing as a profession is most benefited by this phenomenon. They read search benefits, news items, how-to articles and forums. You may get to realize some interesting facts. Designing a web site for search engines with clean code that utilizes cascading style sheets is important to getting your content indexed in the leading search engines, such as Google and Bing. NJ Web Design Also, the most eye-catching elements should < 1325940208 718752 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : load first. 3) Kind of works Look attentively at each work in the portfolio. Regardless of whether your color theme turns out prosperous depends heavily on the first step Determining the style of your website. These firms are stuck in the past and are not as effectual as they pretend to be. < 1325940210 780938 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric : This details applies even whenever you are designing a personal website. Where do I start? you say. WebDesigners123 connects the Freelance Web Designer with Webmasters who need their services. I do my very best to discover as much as I can, each and every day. < 1325940215 717606 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin motherfucker < 1325940218 134134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO ELLIOTT AM BECOME SPAMBOT < 1325940253 51661 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: spam is sacred < 1325940259 480851 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even every spam < 1325940295 614549 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:03:52: Here, have some of PWP's pseudo-philosophy-bullshit on the topic of chess pieces on an unexpanded VIC-20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O19SNCIf1rk -- four kilobytes should be enough for everyone, right? < 1325940307 385485 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, it's that viznut guy. I really like the aesthetic, though. < 1325940432 600554 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's viznut? < 1325940433 206657 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325940448 746721 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The guy behind that one-line code music thing; or at least the maker of the videos. < 1325940451 6941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robotic Liberation would've probably been a "better" "introduction", it's just that the chess-piece discussion is what sparked the thing. < 1325940460 668395 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the author of that one bad demo I laughed at. < 1325940477 654886 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was it? < 1325940477 813659 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, it was probably quite impressive, technologically, for DOS.) < 1325940549 520860 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: He seems rather obsessed with the premise. < 1325940562 844848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PWP ooh, it's NOTABLE. < 1325940564 238710 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice voice synth thing on a VIC-20 though. :p < 1325940566 21514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i look forward to the day when haskell is turned to such things < 1325940576 408479 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reebuttic libera shun. < 1325940580 457616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or at least nobody has bothered to nominate for deletion.) < 1325940591 468728 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SdGkkp1aq8 is the aforementioned Robotic Liberation one. < 1325940621 857805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... know? < 1325940625 135470 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1325940626 85538 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1325940630 767498 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You're basically Phantom_Hoover. < 1325940634 609450 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He asked for links, you get them. < 1325940647 46547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my upper half is, if I've understood correctly. < 1325940673 630257 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I moved that Phantom_Hoover back into Edinburgh quite some time ago. < 1325940693 678291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so now I'm just a half the fizzie I used to be. < 1325940883 227007 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: http://sprunge.us/JSZF hi criticize my Haskell code. < 1325940898 84537 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you deriving Typeable? < 1325940923 310104 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you deriving Ord for Piece? Why aren't you deriving Eq for Board? < 1325940932 314909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1325940937 741389 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you using (Vector (Vector a))? < 1325940941 928831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, -shrug- YOU NEVER KNOW YOU MAY NEED TYPEABLE < 1325940967 867758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: because you told me to. < 1325940993 493500 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325941017 103157 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're also using the wrong kind of Vector. < 1325941030 161227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325941117 485321 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Vector did you recommend? < 1325941148 189913 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This is the one I mentioned above disliking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1537t45xm8 < 1325941151 218791 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Storable. < 1325941194 764534 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll remove the Typeable since it's not really needed for anything. < 1325941208 623238 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: DYK: Scientists are propagandists who want to mechanise you? < 1325941217 724648 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think "if I needed Typeable for a library type and it wasn't derived, that would be annoying." < 1325941220 32844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, this is amazingly crap. < 1325941230 870639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note if all these routines are used simultaneously the data space might overflow. For serious floating point usage the large model might be needed." SDCC's float support is amusing. (They've also just stolen GCC floatlib's IEEE single-precision C code without optimizing them for their targets.) < 1325941237 350985 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The one I just linked? It really is. < 1325941298 912359 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We will never again let an algorithm make a decision for us!" < 1325941321 348752 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How much change do I have?" "WE WILL NEVER LET ALGORITHMS MAKE DECISIONS FOR US" < 1325941326 387145 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Grep /Let me elaborate the setting/ http://countercomplex.blogspot.com/2011/09/new-propaganda-tool-post-apocalyptic.html if you want more BACKGROUND. < 1325941348 173377 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Nonono, brains aren't algorithmic, he makes that clear in the uploader comments. < 1325941352 220394 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: I imported Vector.Storable and got this http://sprunge.us/fYPP < 1325941355 670544 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I missing a deriving somewhere? < 1325941365 811566 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're missing the fact that I told you not to use Vector (Vector a). < 1325941386 175397 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1325941421 923828 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you suggesting I use MVector? < 1325941426 874196 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325941446 742624 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(Vector (Vector a)). < 1325941454 746430 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to explain? or should I just guess at what you mean? < 1325941464 31018 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you said to use Storable vectors... < 1325941466 496847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, hey, you removed the knights! < 1325941472 707090 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:55 Why are you using (Vector (Vector a))? < 1325941474 658573 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:55 Guest84924: because you told me to. < 1325941476 229206 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:56 No. < 1325941501 248312 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: I was referring to earlier when I asked what I should use to represent a chess board and you said "oh you probably want Map or Vector" < 1325941508 714113 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey, what's your opinion on STATE OF THE ART?!?!?! (I am emulate pundit: find topic claimed to be controversial by semi-reliable sources, slam in face of interviewee.) < 1325941520 767440 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :State of the art? < 1325941524 378619 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Please attempt the basic literacy required to distinguish (Vector a) and (Vector (Vector a)). < 1325941539 591219 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aykuVMf4uIQ < 1325941545 21891 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: okay, but why should I use a 1d vector to represent a 2-dimensional grid? < 1325941556 465377 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Because that gives you a contiguous region of memory. < 1325941595 477991 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, okay. < 1325941610 336120 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what knights? < 1325941611 286854 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to handle row/column indexing yourself; something like Vector is a more raw interface than C arrays. < 1325941622 666961 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, the ones that aren't in portal chess. < 1325941630 919620 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame. those suck. < 1325941635 889248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're not in portal chess. < 1325941637 385219 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your original code used an array of pointers pointing to vectors which have an array of pointers pointing to boxed Maybe values which ... < 1325941643 78549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they can only hop two squares! < 1325941651 95426 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, wrap (Maybe PIece) so you can write a Storable instance for it. < 1325941651 728979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :portals can hop THREE! yeah... stepping up the game. < 1325941665 481264 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: what do you mean by "wrap" < 1325941679 514877 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype? < 1325941681 325824 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: newtype JesusChrist = JesusChrist (Maybe Piece) < 1325941701 860980 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie deftly avoids controversy by not responding. < 1325941756 772574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: why do I need a newtype for that? < 1325941768 611316 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so you can write a Storable instance for it." < 1325941772 819423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325941773 294185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1325941773 967335 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can put it in a storable Vector. < 1325941779 571263 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, you need to import the vector module qualified. < 1325941797 76493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking: why is it required to have a newtype in order to write an instance of Storable < 1325941817 33778 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could write the instance directly, but (a) error-prone (b) requires FlexibleInstances (c) could overlap < 1325941824 540167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325941838 644236 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a) in that you could easily mistakenly use the instance elsewhere without intending to. < 1325941880 20844 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure about this Storable stuff. It seems to require a lot of low-level information < 1325941909 130993 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what gain? a more efficient 8x8 grid. < 1325941918 278607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325941920 975806 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Storable is trivial. < 1325941927 187627 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just want to define a bijection to Word8. < 1325941945 329092 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poke p Nothing = poke (0 :: Word8); poke p (Just Blah) = poke (1 :: Word8); ... < 1325941948 991362 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact < 1325941956 934824 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poke p a = poke (toEnum a :: Word8) < 1325941958 993030 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the obvious for peek < 1325941965 496298 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325941987 675208 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeOf = const 1 -- ?? < 1325941995 189379 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325941997 650552 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all you need. < 1325942006 804285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1325942027 380056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much easier than I thought it was. < 1325942078 742910 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Robotic Liberation is now stuck in my head, I'm annoyed. :/ < 1325942081 772831 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapping a Maybe in a newtype seems marginally annoying though.. < 1325942087 455802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: I don't have much of an opinion; I mean, I recall I thought it looked nice, no matter how video-capturey it was. < 1325942099 370261 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're writing your own indexing functions anyway. < 1325942102 754164 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can unwrap it at that point. < 1325942117 941009 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Neutrality! What a rare thing from a fizzi. < 1325942119 67629 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie. < 1325942143 181073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality, the Prequel: The Attack of the Nerds | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325942186 917782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if I'd have "been there" I'd have more of an opinion, but I don't think I even knew about any demosceney stuff in 1992, really. < 1325942205 42950 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: oh hey I've got a great name for my newtype. Cell. WOW < 1325942207 129454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so good. < 1325942209 507349 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. descriptive. < 1325942214 262459 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325942215 213556 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square < 1325942216 69510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1325942219 631232 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cell. < 1325942219 946951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square is more chess-like < 1325942224 554458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, sounds a bit imprisoning < 1325942233 271157 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess Square is more correct. < 1325942262 953951 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been having difficulty naming all of these things < 1325942284 842079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're very similar. I wasn't sure if I wanted to call Board something like GameState and then s/GridSpace/Board/ < 1325942300 635863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but GameState is, bleh. < 1325942302 19064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sqoor, Buurd. < 1325942328 224345 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION almost named fillColumns philCollins until he realized a) that < 1325942338 525161 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Board should definitely just be a board. < 1325942341 583589 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325942346 916058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s stupid b) he doesn't need that function < 1325942351 719489 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Also, it's rank and file these days, no? < 1325942355 830159 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In modern commentary, the columns (called files) are labeled by the letters a to h from left to right from the white player's point of view, and the rows (called ranks) by the numbers 1 to 8, with 1 being closest to the white player, thus providing a standard notation called algebraic chess notation. < 1325942360 943618 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: ah, yes. < 1325942386 756937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: for someone who's implementing a chess variant, I don't know very much about actual chess. < 1325942401 190043 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto, but I have Wikipedia to help me be a snarky asshole. < 1325942411 691200 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: anyway it makes sense conceptually that the board also includes these invisible loop sets. < 1325942416 756238 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1325942423 507340 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should remove the hidden state. < 1325942439 584605 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the... loop sets? < 1325942450 604424 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need those. :P < 1325942455 552663 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make them board state! < 1325942458 892530 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use colours or some shit. < 1325942467 71417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean visually. yes they'll be displayed. < 1325942471 406004 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're "invisible" in the physical game. < 1325942486 193788 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean they hsould be part of the piece type. < 1325942521 142238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's a possibility however I think (but I'm not sure) it will be easier to work with them if they're stored as a set < 1325942530 771731 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because multiple loop squares are associated with one another.\ < 1325942544 954314 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325942552 600834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a move can remove an entire set of loop squares and I don't feel like calculating what those are < 1325942557 659529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to just have a set of them that I chop off. < 1325942626 814099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they have properties as a set that I haven't added yet < 1325942681 513150 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as a direction of clockwise and counterclockwise for the unidirectional loops, and "oscillating" I guess for the bidirectional case (I'll get around to encoding that later once I can see other things implemented) < 1325942737 917449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, actually < 1325942749 940550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have the Loop squares have a direction. < 1325942772 465744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then to build a collection of related loop squares I just follow the path based on directions. < 1325942782 722385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1325942858 363391 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: oh one problem with your Storable instance is that Pieces are not actually Enums. < 1325942866 968148 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, I can't derive them as such < 1325942870 205631 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to write the instance. < 1325942878 577511 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write your own instance, there's like 16 elements. < 1325942900 857803 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a game a language? < 1325942903 77460 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :any way I can make that not tedious? < 1325942919 988698 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you think this is tedious, wait until you actually write something that isn't a type. < 1325942942 566927 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: a sequence of discrete moves could be viewed as a language, I think. < 1325942957 680390 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325942960 296280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of those moves < 1325942967 501695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a game a set of moves? :D < 1325942969 101401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program is a specific string of moves < 1325942977 905945 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: no it also has an underlying state. < 1325943000 787722 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1325943013 138029 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: but really is there an easier way than "lol pattern matching 16 cases" < 1325943019 628063 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ < 1325943024 582181 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well you can obviously derive enum for piecetype < 1325943033 304388 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll let you figure out the basic arithmetic to handle the additional player field < 1325943034 889494 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in piece < 1325943038 218971 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep I tried earlier. but maybe it works suddenly now? < 1325943080 691441 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess in chess there is the question of whether to represent board state or piece state < 1325943102 890200 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: piecetype has 7 constructors. coord and enum already are enum < 1325943107 329305 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually oh < 1325943114 506569 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portal is the only tricky one < 1325943118 642961 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325943122 215959 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's trivial < 1325943124 475218 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the range is (8,8) < 1325943126 401292 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1325943127 36861 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so use < 1325943127 830472 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t index < 1325943128 621297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ix a) => (a, a) -> a -> Int < 1325943168 346563 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest84924: also I could do something horrible like data Rank = A | B | C ... < 1325943169 330216 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1325943182 338980 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Data File = One | Two | ... -- bahahahahahah < 1325943187 968050 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, do it < 1325943190 741974 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except F1 | F2 | ... < 1325943194 944002 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah < 1325943196 52451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1325943196 210827 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :derive Enum, write Ix instance < 1325943199 282557 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1325943204 403656 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than using Int < 1325943205 511266 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I was just going to use my indexing function < 1325943213 930189 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ix is useful though because < 1325943214 723598 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t index < 1325943215 582570 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ix a) => (a, a) -> a -> Int < 1325943215 738710 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to abstract that < 1325943216 692122 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t range < 1325943217 484237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Ix a) => (a, a) -> [a] < 1325943219 866108 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1325943220 182832 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1325943236 600533 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Ix can't be derived from Enum < 1325943239 898892 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with board state you could literally have 64 cells with the alphabet {"R", "N", "B", "Q", "K", "P", "r", "n", "b", "q", "k", "p", " "} < 1325943247 636132 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: noep < 1325943251 332425 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: it's more than Enum < 1325943256 543372 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: PORTAL CHESS IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT < 1325943265 227901 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well portal chess yeah < 1325943280 619426 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but regular chess you could get away with it so long as you allowed for invalid moves to happen < 1325943312 715519 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought using Rank and File would be ridiculous but it actually kind of works nicely. < 1325943334 183939 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that arithmetic will be weird without a bunch of fromEnum stuff. < 1325943359 665325 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm the Rank is the number the file is the letter. < 1325943373 772169 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the deal with chess and not killing the king < 1325943377 307193 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean SERIOUSLY < 1325943387 29453 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)) < 1325943396 240306 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will actually be one of the more difficult things to calculate in protal cehess < 1325943399 490276 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err capturing < 1325943403 23392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are many weird capturing rules < 1325943434 766774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, if your two portals are facing each other and within capturing range of one another < 1325943435 84520 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind im being very very dumb < 1325943442 774777 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the enemy king cannot be adjacent to those portals < 1325943472 928195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the explosion rule where portals explode when they try to pass through each other. < 1325943478 177888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325943517 543809 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there actually a published ruleset for portal chess? < 1325943519 563453 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. in chess. suppose that you made the rule that you could capture the king.. < 1325943521 466263 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1325943521 783228 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or continuous chess? < 1325943527 485258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325943531 561385 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, darn < 1325943533 533524 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous chess happened like... yesterday? < 1325943539 798644 :Guest84924!~elliott@95.149.229.241 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325943541 855076 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325943545 343357 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have pretty much a definitive ruleset in my brain at the moment. < 1325943546 134689 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325943553 210201 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Latin vocab tester is going well < 1325943556 464065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just... too lazy to write chess rules. that will be very boring. :P < 1325943578 754986 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the rules of continuous chess aren't terribly complex. < 1325943623 61396 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, your Latin vocab tester? < 1325943631 527978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest554115: wait maybe this isn't a good idea. < 1325943667 567697 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325943673 394028 :elliott!~elliott@95.149.229.241 QUIT :Changing host < 1325943673 550625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1325943675 311771 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe using a Rank and File type isn't a good idea < 1325943684 540992 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Rank and File are basically the same I could probably just make them one type. < 1325943714 436530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, make one type < 1325943721 734273 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it's more of a flashcards program < 1325943722 362867 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh but that's gross too < 1325943723 988079 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T KNOW IF WANT < 1325943729 434872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not gross. < 1325943731 538505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I just want integers but then I can't derive Enum and I'll have to write that. < 1325943734 956193 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO WAY. TO AVOID. TEDIUM. < 1325943770 988513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I'll try Rank and File < 1325943774 637044 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as seperate types. < 1325943780 618942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no way this thing will progress to the working stage. < 1325943790 133559 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're exactly the same and I'll probably being doing a lot of arithmetic on them as integers. < 1325943790 926523 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I'm just adding more features now < 1325943815 582062 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it will. < 1325943829 161453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't. < 1325943848 824471 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, ah, right. Javascript gravity guy was working on a Latin thing too and I was wondering if you were in cahoots, at which point I would break down crying because that's like Hexham levels of crazy. < 1325943863 857534 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I'm doing it in Haskell < 1325943877 932635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't believe him. < 1325943880 825160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too good to be false. < 1325943904 713377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : whats the deal with chess and not killing the king <-- it was probably politically incorrect at one time to kill kings, even in games < 1325943907 471604 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1325943925 349640 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, worse still, he had the opportunity to be one of the interviewers when I went to Cambridge. < 1325943933 969557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: omg < 1325943935 296957 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would have been upsetting in the extreme. < 1325943941 145941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you have said < 1325943945 68885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"JAVASCRIPT GRAVITY GUY!!!" < 1325943953 530460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I SHALL USURP YOUR GAME" < 1325943955 415349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1325944017 426395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : My Latin vocab tester is going well <-- VERBVM NECESSE EST < 1325944033 699068 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh oops E is a File and a Direction < 1325944051 612833 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IsInCheck(chessboard) function is diabolical eh < 1325944061 694450 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the most difficult of all to write? < 1325944071 770876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: probably not < 1325944076 998213 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't be as easy as normal chess. < 1325944077 473485 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds trivial < 1325944103 846836 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does IsInCheck do? < 1325944116 116981 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it determines if the king is in check < 1325944118 37401 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, did you read about continuous chess (it's the best chess). < 1325944120 97309 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :determines if a player is in check I'd imagine. < 1325944122 335950 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses magic to know whose turn it is < 1325944125 731383 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325944129 614114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "the king" I imagine he means it returns something like Maybe Player < 1325944137 997431 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325944138 798961 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1325944143 482770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately bicontinuous chess because some loser already made his own crappy continuous chess. < 1325944159 343171 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, chess, except the board and the pieces are continuous. < 1325944161 566231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :real chess?? < 1325944168 626812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Excuse me you need to invent tricontinuous so that it's continuous in time too still? < 1325944180 584572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: < 1325944183 358496 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Direction = North | Northeast | East | Southeast | South | Southwest | West | Northwest < 1325944195 41770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about how I feel about these expand direction names < 1325944196 652896 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yeah player in check i meant < 1325944203 149938 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325944204 743050 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, don't paste him the original definition; I've altered it significantly. < 1325944208 9843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:02:46: Basically, the board is a continuous square, and each area corresponding to an initial piece is instead full of continuous piece. 23:04:45: To perform a move, you take some measurable subset of one batch of piece and move them such that the measure of the piece remains the same (this is inelegant but, I think, necessary) and \int ddp is equal to a valid move vector. < 1325944210 30111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:05:37: Capture consists of moving some quantity of piece over some of your opponent's piece, which erases the target piece. < 1325944215 323349 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i don't know what that means < 1325944215 957718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ^ < 1325944218 376476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1325944224 224308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, now you get to tell oklopol the diff. < 1325944228 411242 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog continuous time < 1325944245 53189 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a piece an Borel subset of measure 1 where the measure of the board is 64? < 1325944261 405764 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325944272 584260 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is the board [0, 8] times [0, 8]? < 1325944276 21176 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well, um, at the start of the game you have squares of piece (that's like piece but an uncountable noun) occupying the subset of [0,8]^2 corresponding to their initial positions in normal chess. < 1325944284 46374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog continuous in time < 1325944284 679449 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if I combine Board and GridSpace into one type would you recommend using a newtype to seperate Board from being just another Vector (Maybe Piece)? < 1325944299 67654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Dunno. < 1325944299 223809 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.31615 < 1325944302 581936 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see a need particularly. < 1325944308 495746 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that much i guessed < 1325944348 258972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, a move is a measure-preserving bijection f. < 1325944357 528375 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A move is valid if: < 1325944358 819376 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, many. types. < 1325944379 376600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is the language of 22 billion types. < 1325944385 481258 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the hinduism of languages. < 1325944391 522967 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325944401 169299 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- The vector from the centroid of P to the centroid of f(P) corresponds to a legal move in standard chess of that piece. < 1325944402 461337 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325944407 148810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think [0,8)^2 might be more elegant < 1325944421 541728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm except it's not symmetric < 1325944423 538843 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- f(P) intersects only piece of the opposite colour, which is then captured. < 1325944430 578259 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was assuming it doesn't matter because of measure stuff < 1325944453 809848 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :centroid in the measure theoretical sense? < 1325944473 366501 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do all the moves take the form of [a,b] x [c,d] ? < 1325944476 893080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: some people keep insisting this should allow nonmeasurable pieces < 1325944479 35702 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did this happen.. hahaha < 1325944489 586966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that continued fraction form? < 1325944494 836415 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: some people think they can make this work < 1325944503 734190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :- if P is not knight, then forall p in P, the line segment between p and f(P) contains no different piece of the same colour, and contains piece of the opposite colour only if it is captured in the same move. < 1325944504 564635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have worked with the older definition. < 1325944508 588244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's 2d, banach-tarski doesn't apply < 1325944509 697750 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, of course. < 1325944512 890036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Special-casing the knight is not cool man. < 1325944522 527503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, normal chess does it? < 1325944528 276764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FINE < 1325944550 473934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, banach-tarski doesn't apply, but there's no restriction to rigid motions. < 1325944569 425099 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one prevents playing normal chess with this < 1325944575 148840 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1325944592 497669 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you change the initial distribution of piece to allow diagonal moves. < 1325944598 776916 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please tell me that (Enum a) => Maybe a is an Enum. < 1325944611 971727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If it's not, it takes four lines to implement an instance. < 1325944617 687723 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325944618 4460 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325944620 905115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S NOT THE IMPORTANT PART. < 1325944634 325347 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's kind of messy, and so are most other ways of solving it. < 1325944643 697902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal chess is inelegant anyway. < 1325944645 649182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :f.e., it's discrete. < 1325944649 154332 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325944654 855776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :f.e., it doesn't have portals. < 1325944660 995195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iron. < 1325944664 104614 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :discreteness is bestness. < 1325944679 320911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Well Phantom_Hoover has yet to make time continuous so continuous chess is still lame. < 1325944682 856045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But once he does it'll be perfect. < 1325944708 519675 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also: any pawn that comes within 1 unit of the far side of the board becomes queen. < 1325944759 976596 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The batch from which the pawn came is then effectively treated as two batches of piece, a pawn and a queen batch, and they are both moved simultaneously. < 1325944762 805546 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I think instead of listing my types bottom-to-top I'll go top-to-bottom < 1325944787 769363 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. too much trouble. this way is fine. < 1325944805 323530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know a compression algorithm that produces really good results on almost-universally-English plaintext? < 1325944811 196428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what, not choice of promotion? < 1325944816 29837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xz -9 is only doing 303 megs -> 47 megs, which seems like it could be a lot better. < 1325944816 663790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh, right, yes. < 1325944833 107539 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had that originally, but I forgot it.) < 1325944838 494540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mechanics are otherwise the same. < 1325944843 175469 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there 8 hues of pawn or can you move all your pawn at once? < 1325944858 615 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: huffman encoding? < 1325944881 14557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: n < 1325944893 990387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O (no not that one.. one that a room full of ingenious computer scientists must rack their brains for) < 1325944895 893563 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325944902 64197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yeah yeah, I'm more interested in an already-written tool than a general technique :P < 1325944904 533527 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm starting to think this thing could work < 1325944905 210214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thx < 1325944914 937370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, originally, it was all at once, but then the move definition switched from the integral to the centroid (i.e. slightly different integral) definition, which makes treating it all at once screwy. < 1325944916 841620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: np < 1325944943 554246 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean even orthogonal movements in normal chess become impossible. < 1325944977 531741 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325944990 511223 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1325944997 733306 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i wonder who wins this game, i can't see a trivial winning strategy < 1325945008 316899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Do you for Chess? < 1325945014 544406 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defining check is especially fun. < 1325945024 392570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: isn't there some compression that allows you to start with a dictionary (essentially prepended)? < 1325945040 492152 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you mean... Huffman encoding? < 1325945046 929065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1325945050 918124 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: err, isn't it just that all your king are belong to us? < 1325945055 117786 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically.. the IsPlayerInCheck() function becomes more expensive as the movespace < 1325945057 457533 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if allowed a further move < 1325945061 372528 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1325945066 492103 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^increases < 1325945071 685433 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do people recommend for Haskell regexes? < 1325945108 608073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ping < 1325945114 381389 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong < 1325945115 14597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You probably don't want to < 1325945115 807522 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe if all the king has to be taken at once, then the solution is stalemate < 1325945117 455427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then checkmate is... wait, no, you could hem in all your opponents king with pawn or something, and then use knight to actually threaten it. < 1325945133 643086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: What's a good compressor for majority-plain-English text that can take advantage of that structure, esp. dictionary < 1325945147 256564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: xz -9 only does ~300 megs -> ~40 megs and I want better < 1325945153 800376 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC23.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325945177 924488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: But ask Deewiant for the one he uses, ISTR it being good :P < 1325945216 820305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, you might find this (very) mildly amusing; it's from the AI course channel, which is still empty since it hasn't started: http://p.zem.fi/t027 < 1325945222 282638 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more likely that the brains of all involved will melt, though. < 1325945228 583533 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: regex-tdfa < 1325945248 586740 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ... okay < 1325945253 240813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1325945256 97901 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum False < 1325945256 842801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1325945257 2617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1325945261 175876 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum False < 1325945261 969063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1325945265 340937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Your humbleness in explaining the lack of AI systems in the channel is amazing. < 1325945291 304185 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I challenge you to a game! < 1325945308 983439 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be white, you can be black, and we play it on a 3x3 board with king at opposite corners. < 1325945312 320948 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure i'm interested :D < 1325945315 333234 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Data.Vector.Storable is pretty cool. < 1325945317 623453 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds hard. < 1325945333 601288 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else? < 1325945339 3150 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-174-6.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325945352 929014 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-83-229.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325945357 470412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no. < 1325945412 246179 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :k i shall play. < 1325945483 413986 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey so < 1325945488 846235 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er, I'm not really sure how to write peek. < 1325945492 543003 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an advantage because you made this game < 1325945519 473966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: fmap (fromEnum . fromIntegral :: Word8 -> Foo) . peek < 1325945522 693983 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can i have the small extra rule that i remove the *closure* of whatever i manage to take from ya instead of just the set < 1325945536 124248 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it changes much < 1325945556 850489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DON'T DOOO IIII < 1325945557 850909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :T\ < 1325945559 850901 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325945562 269870 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're clearly planning something, but it'll be an entertaining something, so fine. < 1325945564 809615 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming the pieces are at [0,1]^2 and [2,3]^2, I move the king contained in the triangle with corners (0,0), (0,1) and (1,0) to that with corners (2,2), (2,3), (3,2). < 1325945619 783766 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1325945623 586696 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-174-6.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325945648 32089 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we note that Q^2 \cap board is a countable dense subset of the board with measure zero < 1325945649 829492 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i win < 1325945658 8565 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'D < 1325945659 635938 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm < 1325945662 568652 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see what you wrote < 1325945664 986808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [f]inite euclidean < 1325945672 8173 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-06.txt:17:17:23: do you know whats dissapointing? having an idea and then googling it.. well time for me to google this finite euclidean plane chess idea of mine < 1325945680 322082 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops wrong 1 < 1325945683 15804 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log [f]inite euclidean < 1325945698 477967 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-06.txt:17:09:46: ok, what about chess on a finite euclidean plane < 1325945706 549537 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how that's a legal move < 1325945714 671672 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours i mean < 1325945724 104924 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1325945730 268729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, piece can intersect itself during a move. < 1325945735 936469 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: zpaq < 1325945745 119091 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (a -> b) -> (a, a) -> (b, b) < 1325945745 278558 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad (><) :: (a -> b) -> (c -> d) -> (a, c) -> (b, d) < 1325945745 436764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad mapSnd :: (a -> b) -> (c, a) -> (c, b) < 1325945745 595399 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Graph.Inductive.Query.Monad mapFst :: (a -> b) -> (a, c) -> (b, c) < 1325945751 372142 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so < 1325945754 262472 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is likely that i started this with that innocent comment < 1325945755 918368 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in check, you can't move there < 1325945761 978679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: This is going to be one of those state-of-the-art ones that take 3 years to compress isn't t < 1325945762 772603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1325945773 569545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: join (***) < 1325945776 846659 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it can't possibly be in check; you only have 0.5 king and I have 1. < 1325945787 950169 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join (***) < 1325945788 584662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming we're leaving out the closure rule, because duh.) < 1325945788 743665 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (a :: * -> * -> *) b c. (Arrow a) => a b c -> a (b, b) (c, c) < 1325945797 343284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t join < 1325945798 296916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a < 1325945804 61708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh. < 1325945807 72333 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do I need to work this magic? < 1325945814 55223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Control.Arrow, Control.Monad < 1325945819 335743 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1325945823 736453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I suggest defining < 1325945829 70700 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's just the best one I found on AUR < 1325945830 21675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both :: (a -> b) -> (a, a) -> (b, b) < 1325945831 924582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :both = join (***) < 1325945832 597857 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait i'm confused < 1325945843 852269 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the best compression technique of all is to have the entire contents of the document contained in the decompression software, reproduced upon running the decompressor < 1325945847 571537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Funny, it's not in my package manager, so I'll have to compile it myself :P < 1325945852 517915 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to have moved 2 in both axes. < 1325945858 793798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, and it's in separate zip(!) files < 1325945909 923029 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe nanozip is if that one isn't < 1325945913 461311 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or freearc < 1325945921 149945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1325945932 792171 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :garden of eden decompression < 1325945943 828930 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :garden of eden wait what's going on here? < 1325945947 278447 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. < 1325945955 752301 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i assume that has nothing to do with CA < 1325945970 550557 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: when you check the state of the output of the decompressor it just happens to be the correct state < 1325945972 294028 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, currently my king consists of two triangles, symmetric about the line joining (0,3) and (3,0) and that joining (0,0) and (3,3); the centroid is thus obviously at (1.5,1.5); the initial centroid was at (0,5,0.5). < 1325945982 480562 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the word garden of eden is very not appropriate < 1325945984 762092 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this is going really well < 1325945988 652632 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks elliott! < 1325945992 973908 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1325945993 926764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1325945998 863921 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks also kallisti, but that was earlier! < 1325946001 121315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toEnum, w/e. < 1325946006 749907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: what did I do? < 1325946006 907900 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks probably other people too! < 1325946008 201640 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh triangles sorry < 1325946011 709657 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uh.. < 1325946014 929765 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, helped me debug the other day < 1325946020 993727 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Pardon me, but I have to die in NetHack again. < 1325946022 421416 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toEnum < 1325946023 94276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => Int -> a < 1325946031 574475 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And if you want to tune zpaq more, you can try using this config: http://mattmahoney.net/dc/max_enwik9.cfg < 1325946054 941979 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Int -> Word8 < 1325946055 259631 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString index :: ByteString -> Int -> Word8 < 1325946055 418482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.ByteString.Unsafe unsafeIndex :: ByteString -> Int -> Word8 < 1325946055 575040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (!!) :: [a] -> Int -> a < 1325946065 516166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not compiling it myself manually :P < 1325946072 226806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it doesn't seem to come with a build system. < 1325946088 793012 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/zp/zpaq/PKGBUILD < 1325946111 721048 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: strictly speaking, i guess i have no legal moves from here, since i don't have a legal starting position, can you clarify what a legal move is? < 1325946115 230515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No guarantee that'll work on my OS < 1325946122 603636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But meh, I might try it sometime < 1325946132 824585 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vector between centroids is one that the piece can move in normal chess? < 1325946134 329767 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, one in which the centroid moves by a legal chess move. < 1325946138 703457 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1325946140 328925 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm okey < 1325946140 646454 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Generally "$CXX $CXXFLAGS $LDFLAGS" should work < 1325946143 764486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromIntegral (5 :: Int) :: Word8 < 1325946144 473651 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1325946146 367149 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325946153 456718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But might need different cflags for e.g. -D platform stuff. < 1325946175 323755 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's conceivable, but I doubt it < 1325946201 243770 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose that you want to decompress a text document named "accounts4.txt" . and someone just happened to have a copy of that document and named it data.zip .. and created a batch file "unzip" .. and unzip contained "rename data.zip to accounts4.txt" < 1325946206 784635 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromIntegral (5 :: Word8) :: Int < 1325946207 458099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1325946210 986892 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. < 1325946214 892452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Pls look up Kolgomorov complexity < 1325946257 615335 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: can i just say i move my centroid by (-1, -1) and distribute my position evenly enough around the board? i don't really want to come up with a concrete way to do this :D < 1325946275 11446 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :some portion of your king is taken :o < 1325946278 539532 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325946286 806529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you need to know quite a bit more < 1325946305 832276 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you need to preserve measure and not move through piece that you haven't captured, too. < 1325946306 783253 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What about good old paq (paq9a), is that available? < 1325946312 141153 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really fluent in functions on reals. < 1325946313 884782 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1325946321 405666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nope < 1325946324 616444 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325946324 772743 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325946325 606539 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325946325 762992 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1325946331 650910 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your system sucks < 1325946339 772985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yep < 1325946343 371285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : `peek' is not a (visible) method of class `Storable' < 1325946359 151291 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand when everyone did so much research < 1325946359 307659 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this is kind of interesting, perhaps there is a way to take a zero measure set and move it around the other guy's pieces so that none of them can move < 1325946359 594018 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946359 750453 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946359 750637 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946359 750711 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946368 539039 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1325946378 16923 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i wasted my life away trying to cope < 1325946378 212416 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946387 535911 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I need Foreign.Storable I think < 1325946398 100503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it used to be, but then I altered the conditions to let you work around that. < 1325946421 356439 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and what are those conditions? < 1325946438 900731 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your opponent tries to corral you by fuzzing a set of zero measure around your piece, you can just take it all in a move with a set of zero measure of your own piece and make your move anyway. < 1325946444 763261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i proved that you can do that < 1325946458 282489 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325946459 551684 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sets of zero measure are basically irrelevant, I think. < 1325946473 62808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm so now Square is: data Square = Square (Maybe Piece) (Maybe Loop) < 1325946476 273713 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :right i do recall that small detail now < 1325946479 549506 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not a derivable Enum. < 1325946501 504812 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they can't make any significant capture, and they can be taken without restriction. < 1325946581 193620 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325946589 803473 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so umm let's see what happens if i just move 1 down < 1325946605 975425 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the problem is that Enum can't be derived like that. < 1325946610 412954 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1325946639 674488 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you win < 1325946641 586230 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cracks knuckles and gets to instance writing < 1325946682 320241 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait do you... < 1325946683 787723 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325946686 565647 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay I've actually written a Haskell program that actually does something well! < 1325946695 806925 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you do < 1325946700 166005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help do I write enum instances sanely I'm afraid . < 1325946703 578025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+how < 1325946706 813451 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now for the tricky part.. < 1325946756 251717 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it standalone < 1325946783 833848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks GHC should be able to derive Enum if all of the inner types are Enums... < 1325946794 957638 :iconmaster_!~rooms@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Client Quit < 1325946832 977361 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, would you care to make your move? < 1325946847 246017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you make yours? < 1325946854 546721 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah one down < 1325946875 142760 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well left < 1325946905 283563 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I win then, although strictly you're just not allowed to make that move. < 1325946928 927188 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1325946938 859366 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we have just kings to that seems like a silly rule < 1325946952 479763 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one write instance (Enum a, Enum b) => (a, b) < 1325946956 734543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1325946959 412465 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one write instance (Enum a, Enum b) => Enum (a, b) < 1325946969 415845 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm guessing a perfect game is infinite < 1325947126 800417 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think this is as simple as you're claiming it to be. < 1325947133 992315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, it's not now that I've changed the type. < 1325947156 497285 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but PieceType could never have Enum derived for it; < 1325947159 73804 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now: < 1325947161 451 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Square = Square (Maybe Piece) (Maybe Loop) < 1325947168 102501 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/e it's seriously not har < 1325947169 254052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1325947173 43315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Loop = Loop Direction LoopKind < 1325947181 630013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're getting hung up on some really trivial functions just because they're instance methods < 1325947194 947937 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has nothing to do with instance methods. < 1325947297 280263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* kallisti thinks GHC should be able to derive Enum if all of the inner types are Enums... <-- doesn't work, consider data Test = I Integer | B Bool -- what is pred (B False) ? < 1325947320 284180 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :er I mean product types specifically < 1325947357 530902 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the deal with multiline strings in Haskell? < 1325947366 680992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then, how do do succ (3, True) using _only_ Enum methods < 1325947368 694363 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325947373 97560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do you do < 1325947380 538510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Loop has 1 + (8 * 2) enumerations, Maybe Piece has 1 + (2 * (5 + 8 + 8 * (1 + (8 * 8)))) enumerations < 1325947390 913160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: they suck, hth < 1325947418 647744 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you suggest I write these cases out with pattern matching? or is there a convenient bit of math I'm missing. < 1325947451 913387 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suppose you would need Bounded also wouldn't you? < 1325947454 531414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude just use fromENums on the fields < 1325947469 602706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :followed by..... < 1325947504 139220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh just pack it however, the whole point is to store everything in [0,256) in the end < 1325947506 41944 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't add them, or multiply them. what is the maths to take these two numbers and magically enumerate the product type. < 1325947511 983428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hmm < 1325947516 667754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait nm < 1325947533 261774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Bounded, Enum, Eq < 1325947538 108587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really worth being able to compress a 8x8 grid into 64 bytes? < 1325947580 199068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: If you ever want to write an AI, yes; anyway you're overcomplicating this massively < 1325947590 426392 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting thrown off because you're telling me to do all of these ridiculous things I wouldn't want to do to begin with. < 1325947593 358749 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I? < 1325947599 208251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why are you asking me for advice < 1325947644 589122 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1 + (8 * 2)) * (1 + (2 * (5 + 8 + 8 * (1 + (8 * 8))))) < 1325947645 262593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 18139 < 1325947658 560624 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Word16 < 1325947659 234060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 65535 < 1325947663 871963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you can do either line continuation with \n\ ... \ or you can use unlines on a list of strings < 1325947689 890399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah I see what you mean. How do I take bytes and pack them together? < 1325947699 204240 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I'm making a standalone version of my latin flash-cards thing, and want the CSV containing the words in the same file < 1325947716 394889 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can exploit a loophole in my school's ridiculously tight security < 1325947719 461274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Bitshifts and .|.? < 1325947723 954824 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT security < 1325947725 752902 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the works. < 1325947727 659821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1325947733 452216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably something with template haskell < 1325947739 662976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1 + (2 * (5 + 8 + 8 * (1 + (8 * 8))))) < 1325947740 461527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1067 < 1325947758 36411 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm that's going to require more than a Word8 < 1325947759 939386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Really, I'd just write all the cases out manually at the top level < 1325947763 509187 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325947768 984992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's so much bother < 1325947780 172899 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-030-245.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1325947781 348583 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically the opposite of what I want to do. < 1325947790 18639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun < 1325947809 652277 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're making this sound much easier than it actually is. < 1325947842 131613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I've done similar things before and it was easy < 1325947859 928208 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds are easy even if you don't make them easy < 1325947864 387632 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they are called sounds. < 1325947894 984741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: tight security, they don't allow data files? < 1325947905 361090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Where did the old rezzo agents repo go? < 1325947913 201488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one with my stuff in it :P < 1325947942 919847 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, they don't allow executable files < 1325947956 20581 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, except for some bizarre reason in .zip archives < 1325947968 439719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: well .zip it then? < 1325947988 460953 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, can't access files from within a zip < 1325947993 673533 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a weird system < 1325948002 423523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1325948006 703770 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.....ugh < 1325948007 813660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves this to elliott < 1325948009 81441 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain < 1325948009 873926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurts. < 1325948023 22697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves this to oerja < 1325948024 527868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1325948039 448375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION infloops < 1325948046 146218 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trust me. < 1325948049 77665 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flashcards eh < 1325948058 842602 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't go to my school, you don't need to know why I need to do this < 1325948064 617480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its probably best to think in terms of association forming time thresholds < 1325948084 295065 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so minimally complete definition for Enum is fromEnum toEnum right? < 1325948100 124003 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. expose self to one stimulus.. then to another < 1325948176 788027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again.. maybe not < 1325948204 436698 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of learning is subtle < 1325948220 391725 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanings of words are necessarily anticipated < 1325948231 474669 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't force the meanings < 1325948240 724340 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can learn through anticipating the meaning < 1325948275 298869 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then.. you use the word.. and get corrected < 1325948288 862822 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know < 1325948377 672153 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1067 - 16 < 1325948378 465645 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1051 < 1325948389 703926 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Enum Loop where fromEnum (Loop d Unidirectional) = fromEnum d fromEnum (Loop d Bidirectional) = 7 + fromEnum d toEnum i = Loop (toEnum (i `mod` 8)) (toEnum ((i+1) / 8)) < 1325948393 720327 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 down, 1051 more to go. < 1325948431 759706 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think that should be i not i+1 < 1325948442 949600 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325948453 757535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also `div` < 1325948467 970195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... divmod < 1325948470 830726 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... quotrem < 1325948511 254618 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks to my crazy fear of linebreaks where I do not think linebreaks should be, I have a line that is 56844 characters long < 1325948521 411768 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good. < 1325948528 668191 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is OCD about whitespace layout < 1325948548 74152 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and striking a balance between not having way too many lines and not condensing everything into one line < 1325948567 198034 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the best way to learn a language is to read it < 1325948571 677660 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or speak it < 1325948580 695296 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err i mean listen to it < 1325948585 796639 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*54952 < 1325948592 599716 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less impressive, but still a lot < 1325948594 384215 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi correct my math provide suggestions < 1325948604 608355 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading may not be sufficient < 1325948605 916825 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmm < 1325948633 220530 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm I could use Bounded I think. < 1325948653 775346 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325948657 753646 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a formula! < 1325948704 499242 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, do I really need the standalone version? < 1325948759 650030 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fromEnum (Loop d t) = fromEnum t * 8 + fromEnum d < 1325948759 847535 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : toEnum i = Loop (toEnum d) (toEnum m) < 1325948760 3730 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : where < 1325948760 355005 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric : (d,m) = i `quoteRem` 8 < 1325948764 291571 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly remembers how to do math < 1325948772 796166 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can binary lambda calculus be encoded as unary lambda calculus? < 1325948801 699914 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im guessing the only problem is leading zeros < 1325948816 30537 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it would be stupid < 1325948831 77251 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I'm going to use let instead of where < 1325948833 138659 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just assume whatstisface < 1325948840 70585 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think let doesn't get as much love as where. :P < 1325948846 738067 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binominal base 2 or something < 1325948851 918706 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary without zeroes < 1325948854 61941 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi I learned how to do math < 1325948854 379721 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be stupid :D < 1325948891 753897 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm pretty sure PieceInfo will be a number of special cases < 1325948904 125006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ok < 1325948919 714974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: really you could autogenerate the enumeration stuff < 1325948925 847505 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1325948929 691204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just generate a list of inhabitants with functor < 1325948929 847526 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was kind of like < 1325948932 270909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I was asking for. < 1325948934 96748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the indices < 1325948941 122834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you still need to manually write stuff < 1325948942 86460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1325948949 330514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data T = A S U | B Q < 1325948951 391295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd do < 1325948956 523298 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: to solve the leading zeros, just add a 1 to the beginning of every string of 0's and 1's < 1325948956 682130 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :"list of inhabitates with functor" wat < 1325948968 746776 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean do list stuff.. < 1325948970 174095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Elems T where elems = A <$> elems <*> elems <|> B <$> elems < 1325948988 906396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can trivially define toEnum/fromEnum implemenetations for Elems things < 1325949019 71806 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325949034 281089 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so .. if we run with the idea of unary lambda calculus, then programming becomes a matter of bounding defining groups of objects into sets < 1325949037 882525 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does elems return < 1325949046 194411 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bounding < 1325949054 658689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: [a] < 1325949061 715168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Elems a where elems :: [a] < 1325949064 255404 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmmm < 1325949067 32870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Elems Rank where elems = [R1, R2, ...] < 1325949070 757680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1325949080 966206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (Elems a) => Elems (Maybe a) where elems = Nothing <|> Just <$> elems < 1325949085 298273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [1,2,3] <|> [4,5,6] < 1325949085 933020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3,4,5,6] < 1325949108 245532 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for instance... you could hand someone a bucket of marbles and say "here is your program" < 1325949110 550766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325949111 819891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: make sure to be careful with the definition of toEnum/fromEnum based on Elems, you want to avoid recomputing indices each time, this is easy if you know how pure memoisation works < 1325949119 969931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1325949135 667633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it's not actually that easy for the toEnum case < 1325949140 476472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1325949145 153583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just by adding or subtracting marbles from a bucket you can code < 1325949149 263015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think you can, hmm < 1325949152 394974 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is pretty cool < 1325949152 711951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme a sec, lemme whip something up < 1325949190 886402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was bogged down in arithmetic that he forgot he could just use lists or something. < 1325949198 271279 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+so much < 1325949199 419697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1325949203 50299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that sentence make sense kthx < 1325949207 967497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that probably isn't the best idea though because of the traversal overhead each time, however i'm writing something which should avoid that trivially < 1325949212 644886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allow the same simple Elems instances < 1325949244 728385 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could avoid the traversal overhead by using a different data structure < 1325949247 739189 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as an array < 1325949248 550739 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... vector. < 1325949252 557125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better to parameterise on the structure < 1325949254 935660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, that doesn't work < 1325949264 785851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get bored of this and stop implementing it if you keep proposing stupid alternatives :p < 1325949273 688746 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY FINE WHATEVER < 1325949300 170387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most results are "If Steve Jobs decides that some unary lambda calculus is the language of choice for the iPhone 4.0, the developer community is going to find away to ..." < 1325949332 147469 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also note that I'm pretty sure Word16 is the word size I'll need for Storable < 1325949335 260587 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's relevant at all < 1325949340 741294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it is < 1325949351 685145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: i'm pretty sure you could pack it into one byte but okay < 1325949379 795037 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry multiplication dawg < 1325949392 284204 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh heres quote "If Steve Jobs decides that some unary lambda calculus is the language of choice for the iPhone 4.0, the developer community is going to find a way to rationalize his selection and talk about how much they love the language." < 1325949405 751053 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason I can't do that is because there are 8 * 8 * 8 different kinds of portals. < 1325949466 769736 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I can't avoid unless I remove the coordinate pair from the definition of PieceInfo < 1325949496 105347 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a possibility I guess, but then I'll have to hunt down the sister portal manually or store their associative seperately, which isn't out of the question. < 1325949524 660650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hunt it down if it's deterministic; you can cache it in a memo table later. < 1325949546 334513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a coordinate to the other portal. < 1325949553 287280 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's deterministic? < 1325949559 509034 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean by that. < 1325949600 229124 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay I'll take out the coordinate < 1325949603 234226 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplifies the storable stuff < 1325949614 316589 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1325949643 168155 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just store the association seperately. it's literally just a 4-element table. < 1325949684 108027 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's much easier I could probably just handwrite this now. < 1325949701 726678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PieceInfo Enum is much simpler. basically 8 Arrows and 8 Portals and 1 of all the other pieces. < 1325949776 220266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle interleave < 1325949776 695242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package interleave < 1325949776 854901 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.VertexArrays data InterleavedArrays < 1325949777 11008 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.VertexArrays interleavedArrays :: InterleavedArrays -> Stride -> Ptr a -> IO () < 1325949785 259784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle [a] -> [a] -> [a] < 1325949785 735823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude (++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] < 1325949785 894309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List (++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] < 1325949786 49996 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.List deleteFirstsBy :: (a -> a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] -> [a] < 1325949807 842833 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Logic.Class I believe < 1325949818 701480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t interleave < 1325949819 820139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a. (MonadLogic m) => m a -> m a -> m a < 1325949975 531042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway, turns out it's trivial < 1325949981 643079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/IZVC or something < 1325950002 931215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think you can avoid overhead and the Ord constraint there < 1325950005 864030 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1325950039 19467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1325950041 218612 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why Map and not array < 1325950068 223429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, because arrays can;t be indexed by *a*s... < 1325950077 662124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd work for the fromEnum case, but who cares. < 1325950084 810811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't use a Vector by default. < 1325950160 914463 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how often does Storable require that conversion to happen. < 1325950182 631720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every single time you take an element out or put one in < 1325950187 259414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, every single operation < 1325950197 155676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you want to traverse a >thousand-element list each time? < 1325950215 444633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part 3487234 in the ongoing series "it's your algorithms". < 1325950267 731888 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ..I never suggested traversing a thousand element list each time? < 1325950286 831654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I presumed you were implying it was overengineering wrt "how often" < 1325950307 152083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm just wondering if it would be better to use an array in the fromEnum case < 1325950314 180435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1325950318 978836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably irrelevant < 1325950328 120799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Profile first, etc. < 1325950329 745297 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mentioned it does some kind of memoization? how does that work. < 1325950339 227691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really. < 1325950353 605873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just floating the shared data outside the lambda so that it's shared. < 1325950364 526103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just related. < 1325950411 878017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :under what conditions does that occur. < 1325950417 759520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you do it. < 1325950423 985743 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1325950451 552047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't explain to you how to take advantage of sharing in a vacuum detached from the fact that you don't really understand the lazy evaluation model, sorry. < 1325950477 642774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure about that? what do you think I don't understand? < 1325950489 830975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but you think seq has side-effects < 1325950497 141735 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you clearly misunderstand /something/ < 1325950517 191326 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is side-effectful at the GHC level. Observing a value mutates memory < 1325950520 763077 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we discovered it was because I didn't use the same definition of side-effect < 1325950532 854351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have discovered that < 1325950546 298642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately any definition of side-effect like that is contradictory with your observed viewpoints as Sgeo points out < 1325950629 572518 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose seq could just be considered a language primitive. < 1325950634 788415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here we go again < 1325950636 375017 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325950694 509342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has well-defined denotational semantics, and can be implemented operationally with no trouble at all (evidence: GHC) < 1325950711 232046 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1325950712 695663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's as "special" as any other Prelude function or whatever < 1325950728 841219 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm < 1325950734 896440 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but can it be implemented without having implemented seq first? < 1325950753 459128 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :null can be defined without null, just with pattern matching < 1325950774 76299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Good luck trying to define the entirety of Haskell without relying on a few primitives. < 1325950824 547946 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ints, Chars, (actually not Chars), IO stuff < 1325950829 408728 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what else needs primitives < 1325950833 194125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq :: a -> b -> b < 1325950833 352609 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325950834 699834 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq = let x = x in x < 1325950837 929712 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good prelude function < 1325950841 181103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Int = Int Bool Bool Bool ... thirty one Bools < 1325950848 633330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Oh snap, evidence by GHC implementation! < 1325950852 969357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can prove SO MUCH about Haskell in that way. < 1325950860 439413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the function arrow (->) is impure, as evidenced by the definition of IO. < 1325950861 550510 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is that the actual implmenetation? < 1325950863 808692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1325950868 491044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read the comment at the top. < 1325950894 229579 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then it's not like "any ther Prelude function" < 1325950897 923276 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+o < 1325950898 82034 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Bool = Bool (a -> a -> a) < 1325950900 107338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, things like defining data constructors etc. are primitives; seq just happens to be a value < 1325950916 413059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also implement seq in terms of some other primitive, say ($!) < 1325950936 546590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're quoting GHC source code, your argument has no applicability to Haskell the language whatsoever in the first place. < 1325950945 226982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what is my argument? < 1325950947 950428 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't ($!) defined in terms of seq? < 1325950957 763715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I have no idea, it's too stupid to work out. < 1325950968 194868 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log parts and the composites are < 1325950969 463956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You could make ($!) the primitive and define seq as (id $!). < 1325950975 53730 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1325950976 5515 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-07.txt:11:17:47: if we say that the parts and the composites are both classed as objects, and that we can only perform operations on objects, and that all operations have equal weight, then there is the tradeoff that group operations are faster but clumsier < 1325950976 797680 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think my arguing is "lol this is why seq has side effects" then you're wrong. < 1325951014 346544 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realized that this is referring to the rules of lambda calculus contrasted with whole lambda calculus programs < 1325951068 890808 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was simply saying that seq is not like "any other Prelude function" because it has a special implement as a primitive. < 1325951084 100556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Int (+) is also implemented as a Primitive in GHC. < 1325951087 318373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1325951093 708851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :However you can implement (+) on Ints yourself. < 1325951105 726688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So your argument is really fucking stupid, it's "one implementation does it this way so I'm too dumb to imagine any other way". < 1325951105 885025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as efficiently though, right? < 1325951114 789819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! Efficiency! The definition of a language. < 1325951127 541493 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ....I'm not even making an argument about seq being a side-effect, dude. < 1325951135 665063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, the fact that GHC defines this way does not mean that is somehow specially related to . < 1325951143 931748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You're the only person who's said "side-effect" in like the last 20 messages. < 1325951184 475126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the question is, how many 1's of unary lambda calculus is required to have a haskell interpreter... ahh.. if only one could know < 1325951184 951167 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seq is a primitive of the language. therefore, it's not a side-effect. < 1325951193 589314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :God this is really stupid shut up about seq < 1325951283 410665 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a number must exist :D < 1325951335 762129 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with primitives: data type definitions including data constructors and the full type system, pattern matching, guards, what in the Prelude cannot be defined in terms of those primitives < 1325951350 170889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seq < 1325951359 911141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Don't know/care, especially because it's irrelevant < 1325951370 680733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubly especially because it'll encourage kallist < 1325951371 632780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1325951377 607785 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :encourage me to do... what? < 1325951384 468005 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, actually, I think my question is partially kallisti's point < 1325951384 623994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not even arguing anything < 1325951387 439859 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1325951417 187475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: No, you're doing the thing where you just say stupid things continually and reply to people who try and explain why you're wrong while adamantly insisting you're not actually engaging in any kind of disagreement. < 1325951431 160071 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I literally just made a statement about a particular thing you said about seq being like any other Prelude function. other than that I've said "well I guess seq is a language primitive" < 1325951452 202960 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore I'm wrong. < 1325951454 591538 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :about everything < 1325951456 536026 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1325951489 211211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :an argument where there was none. fun. I'm going to go do something else. < 1325951526 938829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good god. < 1325951887 583682 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl `ls 'stuff'` < 1325951890 360943 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: cannot access stuff: No such file or directory < 1325951899 831259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '`ls 'stuff'`' < 1325951904 59934 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access stuff: No such file or directory < 1325951905 170356 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '`ls q(stuff)`' < 1325951908 848534 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected < 1325951947 779755 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '`ls q/stuff/`' < 1325951951 638368 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access q/stuff/: No such file or directory < 1325951967 584377 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e '`echo 'hi'`' < 1325951971 480774 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325951985 406610 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'qx(echo q(hi))' < 1325951988 272378 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected < 1325951991 364313 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325952002 839651 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run perl -e 'qx{echo q{hi}}' < 1325952005 972544 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325952168 973461 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325952604 756307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325953190 130328 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I've come to the conclusion < 1325953195 683268 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I'm completely incapable of copypasting something into emacs. < 1325953236 83223 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I knew how but it's not working :P < 1325953244 493613 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... suddenly it works! < 1325953304 854204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : that I'm completely incapable of copypasting something into emacs. <-- middle mouse button? < 1325953311 247484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are in X that is < 1325953340 568877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally don't use the ctrl-v/ctrl-c buffer outside stuff like gimp < 1325953356 234690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how you access that in emacs < 1325953498 192601 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how to /type/ in emacs < 1325953540 463447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, uh it is easy just hit the keys on your keyboard < 1325953600 3778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs is a really nice editor. Of course it has some flaws, but I find it generally have less flaws than other editors. < 1325953657 739982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course that depend on what I'm doing, I tend to use other editors for some specific languages, or for some specific tasks) < 1325953825 132323 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the benefits of levenshtein coding over regular binary coding? < 1325953867 13881 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you have to use C-y in emacs < 1325953870 188015 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it wasn't working for some reason.. < 1325953874 367398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, heh < 1325953903 270954 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.... < 1325953906 284287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-y uses the same buffer as selected text in X < 1325953927 493027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does levenshtein coding mean that in one series of 0s and 1s you can encode multiple integers? < 1325953948 239539 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats amazing < 1325954546 338907 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? < 1325954579 958847 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325954723 57723 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't think it means that < 1325954727 598423 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325954777 6821 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: wat < 1325954793 689063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl `echo 'hi'` < 1325954794 330290 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1325954797 343958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print `echo 'hi'` < 1325954797 978778 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325954827 194125 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coping from wiki 0101100 = 0 1 2? :D < 1325954839 263395 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0][10][1100] = 0 1 2 < 1325954921 508589 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000 = [0][0][0][0] = 0 0 0 0 < 1325954954 153399 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[10][10][10][10][0] = 1 1 1 1 0 < 1325954954 496541 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash really < 1325954955 349543 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1325954960 241467 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :really needs perl quote-like operators < 1325954964 261423 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... perhaps what i am doing wrong is wording my statement < 1325955019 483665 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well herp derp yes, the levenshtein code is a code, so you can stick integers in a sequence and decode uniquely. < 1325955058 42546 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1325955059 950561 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can also just encode sets of integers in an integer and use a single codeword < 1325955104 764036 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-? < 1325955111 418743 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it's even a prefix code, another such code is coding n to 0^n1 < 1325955113 201721 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just any code, a prefix code. (Also why is "prefix code" and "prefix-free code" the same thing nurrrr?) < 1325955143 987177 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its weird how all of this is obvious to you guys < 1325955146 89264 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: please don't restate my lines. that doesn't make you sound smart. < 1325955160 217429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were just TOO FAST for me. < 1325955182 45739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's all right, "it's no shame to be fast", like we say here in Finn land. < 1325955185 56181 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you must have taken math as a hobby rather than a school thing < 1325955194 240616 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i've had a lot of this stuff on courses. from the coding perspective and the combinatorics on words perspective. < 1325955204 32668 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is my profession < 1325955219 367464 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure that's a word though < 1325955222 938019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could even go as far as to say oklopol eats math for breakfast. < 1325955239 575262 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :profession is a word < 1325955246 665164 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eat little hoops of wholegrain, covered in chocolate for breakfast < 1325955255 69990 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just wondering if it's as general term for job as i think it is. < 1325955262 805641 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorics however is probably not what you intended < 1325955268 275348 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but might be a word < 1325955272 481319 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i meant combinatorics on words < 1325955291 269429 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has almost nothing to do with combinatorics < 1325955327 984344 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. (5) profession -- (an occupation requiring special education (especially in the liberal arts or sciences)) < 1325955337 852471 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1DC23.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325955342 229869 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math doesn't require any sort of education < 1325955352 238494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's just your occupation. < 1325955357 960426 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jobulation < 1325955373 136427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tribulation. < 1325955415 660433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OED's definition just says you need to know some stuff, not get an education. < 1325955418 542955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An occupation in which a professed knowledge of some subject, field, or science is applied; a vocation or career, especially one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification. Also occas. as mass noun: occupations of this kind." < 1325955439 579035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More widely: any occupation by which a person regularly earns a living." < 1325955442 302532 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose you need to know some stuff < 1325955480 984393 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: do you have a university degree yet? < 1325955490 602132 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1325955505 801771 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered getting a university degree0 < 1325955507 71227 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1325955531 518430 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am living in a weird kind of dire strait... < 1325955551 310377 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world has defeated me from every angle < 1325955572 492065 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm aware of that, i felt the question was orthogonal enough < 1325955597 768240 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :success is mostly an illusion < 1325955597 927024 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how many phd's do you have? < 1325955628 633336 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more time is spent discussing the rules of chess than playing chess < 1325955639 949588 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual pieces are like a distant memory < 1325955673 638076 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mom is extraordinarily inefficient at walking up and down the passageway here at 4am < 1325955684 428183 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like she takes the maximum walking path < 1325955714 602277 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's an np-complete problem so she might be smarter than you think. < 1325955780 378248 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually certainly not < 1325955808 796265 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well depends on what you mean by maximal < 1325955809 114398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm.. ok what she does is.. she doesn't queue up tasks at locations.. instead she goes back and forth between locations < 1325955815 316325 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe the edge problem is more natural < 1325955850 856289 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the only reason this bothers me, is that my brothers hearing is too good.. < 1325955862 595368 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything makes him angry < 1325955877 448741 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, i see < 1325955887 669502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have brothers < 1325955888 797262 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and part of him blames my mom for all that is wrong in his life which he kind of admits once < 1325955913 214132 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :has he considered blaming himself? < 1325955933 448824 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. to me.. its like when my mom makes noise, she is hitting a hornets nest with a stick < 1325955938 839754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although she has the right to < 1325955949 713796 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. he bought 2 books.. 1 about anger, 1 about shame < 1325955961 156556 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame? < 1325955962 148784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, he means well on some level < 1325955966 543779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1325955972 146802 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is he ashamed < 1325955983 797254 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno.. and probably dangerous to ask him :D < 1325955997 160905 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome family you have there < 1325956005 477907 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah its not so bad < 1325956009 43919 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only you were 18 and could move away < 1325956015 896669 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1325956020 669230 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of my problems is in me though < 1325956035 139822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a nice round number. < 1325956035 615687 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i am basically the cause of my problems < 1325956052 579955 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have trouble with everyone i meet since i was child < 1325956054 999843 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which number? < 1325956065 41878 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89AD0.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325956068 54494 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: is it because you keep telling them that you suck and they get tired of it? < 1325956081 369483 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered letting them find out on their own? < 1325956097 275695 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1325956114 392881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero, the roundest number. (Well, I suppose that's a matter of definition.) < 1325956144 68122 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's true < 1325956155 821206 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't round it down to the nearest 10^n! < 1325956166 928036 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-217-73.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's already all rounded! < 1325956181 786759 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1 isn't? < 1325956185 246225 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: part of what i have become now involves telling people how i want them to see me.. i can't just stop it < 1325956207 361529 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you cannot stop it even with new people you meet? < 1325956241 89732 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my behaviour is basically uniform < 1325956243 372511 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly understandable not to be able to change your role amongst people you already have a history with, but new people are a chance to modify yourself. < 1325956269 98808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i may be cursed < 1325956289 542757 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds likely. < 1325956337 747254 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have become refuse of society < 1325956342 476596 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes my hands start bleeding uncontrollably and i hear a choir of angels that tells me to kill myself and everyone around me. < 1325956353 79829 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have a hunch i know how you feeel < 1325956354 530665 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*feel < 1325956413 245764 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it works is the weaker someone is, the more severely is the punishment if they stand up for themselves < 1325956420 45849 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it mean to be refuse of society < 1325956427 663062 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since in a very subtle way, it is like a class war < 1325956446 925915 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stand up for themselves? i have no idea how that concept applies to modern society. < 1325956581 533766 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he means he's literally trash from society. < 1325956584 943528 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stand up to who? my family? my friends? my coworkers? < 1325956596 592785 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is who i have to stand up to day to day? < 1325956603 467285 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it work? < 1325956609 126349 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah and i'm not sure what you mean by that < 1325956618 962195 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should they be the enemy? < 1325956629 467743 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they telling you to do things? will they hurt you if you don't? < 1325956657 281188 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can someone stand up to everyone? < 1325956672 386809 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: like someone's poop that learned to talk? that would be impressive. < 1325956686 366898 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: what is "standing up to someone"? < 1325956713 588546 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never quite understood < 1325956737 400692 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats how society works... the ones in real trouble are the ones where their closest humans have turned against them < 1325956775 427524 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, if someone turns against you, you walk away from them? < 1325956823 42215 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely i can't be the only one < 1325956830 601970 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you aren't < 1325956854 331030 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an undercurrent becomes established < 1325956874 583040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least my dad wasn't abusive alcoholic < 1325956884 554916 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. i see that on tv shows < 1325956887 837612 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is for some < 1325956908 763808 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was in his own words( :-P ) perfect < 1325956925 656420 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Map.! < 1325956926 291124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input `Map.!' < 1325956938 430209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Map.(!) < 1325956939 224402 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `Map' < 1325956941 934205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (Map.!) < 1325956942 668011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find qualified module. < 1325956982 862108 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, when my father died.. i slowly learned the world is a very lonely place < 1325956991 192817 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad was a bit of an abusive alcoholic. i didn't really mind. < 1325957039 698354 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE89AD0.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1325957274 795411 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325957292 509203 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the world feels like a lonely place, your friends probably suck < 1325957316 846227 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1325957338 180940 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-) it wasn't their fault < 1325957343 655790 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try kallisti for instance, he's a great friend < 1325957345 877457 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1325957359 282877 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true, so maybe you can let them live. < 1325957400 349622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first guy.. his father was some kind of abusive.. his mother divorced.. the older brother, in 2nd grade i was told would steal his mothers rings and make him take the blame for it < 1325957435 39927 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not know what else happened to him < 1325957451 311419 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that still somehow magically affects his life? < 1325957461 74634 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is the best friend ever. < 1325957461 233064 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will never understand people < 1325957484 310490 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. i knew him in 2nd grade :P < 1325957500 595095 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay. < 1325957613 924246 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another guy, divorced parents again... living with his dad who had a string of failed relationships.. i ended up at the same school as him for people who were having trouble with school for some reason or other < 1325957623 685094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno the full story of him < 1325957666 801118 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :second guy had .. endless stream of girlfriends.. then finally had a baby.. ended up leaving it apparently < 1325957685 238912 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1325957695 82107 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have spent a long time with such weird people < 1325957737 399163 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since i don't argue back, fight back.. eventually things always leads to abuse < 1325957758 852766 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :physical abuse? < 1325957776 556850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any sort < 1325957779 479512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; "FFS iti would you *please* shut up for once" abuse. < 1325957815 359495 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your life certainly sounds interesting. < 1325957821 948809 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should really stop bragging about it < 1325957842 606008 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you expect to keep living our perfect lives after that. < 1325957861 282697 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to leave and be an asshole somewhere else, see you later :) < 1325957988 262976 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since my father died, the motivation to program has started to dwindle.. hard to explain the deep rut.. withholding all my energy.. < 1325958000 507751 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t curry < 1325958001 300061 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. ((a, b) -> c) -> a -> b -> c < 1325958012 502486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t uncurry < 1325958013 137791 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b c. (a -> b -> c) -> (a, b) -> c < 1325958016 100141 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered math, it's like programming but better < 1325958025 74621 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly they are the same thing < 1325958038 667785 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now.. you run along :D < 1325958041 731783 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1325958042 874103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming is more like a subset of math. < 1325958049 8233 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :she has to brush her hair or something < 1325958053 730023 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :the subset that's mostly concerned with computable things. < 1325958062 183105 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have another 20 min < 1325958068 152750 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh < 1325958070 153115 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :women < 1325958156 853182 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, theres combinatrics and lambda calculus right? < 1325958165 644684 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are effectively capable of the same things right? < 1325958180 801336 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1325958184 596067 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^combinatorics < 1325958199 88414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorics is like... counting things < 1325958243 604923 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure more interesting stuff happens in advanced combinatorics, but the introduction to combinatorics is always stuff like "how many poker hands are three of a kinds" and that sort of thing. < 1325958252 590333 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : women < 1325958252 748688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : so, theres combinatrics and lambda calculus right? < 1325958255 444451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Combinatrix. < 1325958261 750490 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1325958264 121063 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... < 1325958282 340148 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats probably what i was thinking < 1325958283 650958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combinatrix and Lambda Calculus. < 1325958337 180096 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the theory of computation, a diversity of mathematical models of computers have been developed." hmm.. < 1325958343 840306 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: combinatory logic and combinatoric are rather different things < 1325958344 633099 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I've allowed elliott to pollute my program with typeclass magic I can't make sense of these type errors. < 1325958368 379858 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1325958431 903395 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatory logic is taking a subset of lc where you can only use some fixed set of functions, which are usually named, say s and k. < 1325958473 226580 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorics is where you say a mugglative set is a finite set with additional structure blah and then you ask how many mugglative sets exist < 1325958491 634909 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh mugglative < 1325958496 318162 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many fun words. < 1325958513 267261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i don't think that's an actual term in math < 1325958516 824445 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blah isn't either < 1325958544 346933 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mugglative blah-theory < 1325958550 427716 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a concept called sex entropy though, have i mentioned < 1325958617 139047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1325958626 883201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds fun. < 1325958635 809635 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325959756 933863 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1325960242 333473 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Ptr a -> IO a < 1325960242 651385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Storable peek :: Storable a => Ptr a -> IO a < 1325960242 810242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foreign.Marshal.Alloc free :: Ptr a -> IO () < 1325960242 968834 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network.Socket.Internal peekSockAddr :: Ptr SockAddr -> IO SockAddr < 1325960625 827257 :kallisti_!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325960716 31439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325961126 116961 :kallisti_!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott do you think using Ix and switching elemFromEnum to an array implementation would be faster or slower than using Map? or does an Ix instance basically require the same kind of lookup code? < 1325961126 311797 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1325961221 287110 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325961797 838405 :PiRSquaredAway!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1325961802 595954 :kallisti_!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net NICK :kallisti < 1325962072 22270 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1325962072 214950 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-12-141.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1325962072 215090 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325962132 934839 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325962997 422618 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325963669 60730 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325963681 558858 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just had an idea for an esolang! < 1325963699 506182 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A mixture of lambda calculus and the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics! < 1325963748 848861 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT WITHOUT QUANTUM MECHANICS! < 1325963755 48746 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, lambda calculus < 1325963773 156649 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1325963780 619923 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a functional extension to ORK... < 1325963892 467775 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a magic box called Trevor. < 1325963996 536798 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the first thing is put into Trevor, Trevor is to turn the first thing into a magic box called Jean such that when the second thing is put into Jean it is turned into the first thing. < 1325964042 261993 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trevor = const < 1325964044 998246 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1325964112 423355 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I know not enough about Ork at all.. < 1325964595 269788 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325964663 198768 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1325965283 842657 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325965404 268994 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1325965426 682248 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is a function? i feel like a jackass asking this again < 1325965432 494775 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325965441 46843 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any deep intuition of what a function is? < 1325965460 152661 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function is a subroutine that returns a value < 1325965481 375521 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325965495 257210 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1325965507 246804 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some languages, in other languages it is THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH < 1325965520 898094 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you use church numerals to encode back and forth between arabic numerals and church numerals < 1325965544 914185 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you reprhase that? I don't quite get what you mean < 1325965548 918316 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use lambda calculus to write.. say.. ummm < 1325965553 14725 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1325965572 958320 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have some number like 555 < 1325965578 9639 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want to square it < 1325965598 865966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could find an encoding of 555 in lambda calculus < 1325965646 165298 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i understand is like succ(succ(succ(zero))) with 555 succ < 1325965685 874307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325965691 27782 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then.. does there exist a lambda calculus expression for squaring a number.. which you could put next to your 555 < 1325965691 344369 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the method of creating the Church numeral 555 that is the most simple < 1325965703 184309 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n f.n (n f) < 1325965743 116607 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let square = \n f -> n (n f) in square (ap (.) (join (,))) (+1) 0 < 1325965743 911575 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b < 1325965755 195342 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doesn't like this < 1325965767 108205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and.. then you take that result.. and convert it from a church numeral.. < 1325965780 9542 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to arabic numerals < 1325965811 750050 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is such a thing possible for any function one might find in a library such as c's math.h? < 1325965844 9441 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With an appropriate representation for, eg, fractions, negative numbers, etc. < 1325965845 756631 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1325965866 66992 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I know nothing about math.h, and very little about C < 1325965871 499527 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1325965876 731208 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmmm < 1325965964 679060 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here play Sopio? < 1325966007 643634 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole process of course seems kind of longwinded if you consider the shorthand of 555 x 555 = 308025 .. but i figure theres better ways to store a number based on what you said etc < 1325966106 491217 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ap (.) (join (.)) (+1) 0 < 1325966107 959251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1325966110 377341 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, at some stage, someone must kind of agree that computation based on strings of binary digits is more efficient than church numerals < 1325966128 780499 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again.... maybe it will prove to be otherwise < 1325966133 959150 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\x y -> z) < 1325966134 275819 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :const (const z) < 1325966135 227780 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, church numerals is unary, not very efficient < 1325966148 494861 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For large numbers < 1325966170 536541 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1325966190 947162 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm going to make LC things for church lists of booleans < 1325966204 524679 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it seems each scheme has a unique strength to it < 1325966293 957165 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :decimals are easy to compute with by hand < 1325966303 49603 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary is easy to compute with for a computer < 1325966337 655851 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decimals are only easy to us because we are used to them < 1325966351 512506 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And we can count on our hands < 1325966373 103032 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :church can be performed by a computer and allows numbers to be used in lambda calculus < 1325966460 637474 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean by performed is we are saved the burden by a computer < 1325966502 565325 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i assume that almost always optimized into binary < 1325966714 44340 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325966736 8647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, they do have another advantage over binary too for humans: I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that we can only keep track of a limited amount of "units" in our short term memory. We can group stuff (like when you read out a telephone number to someone) to reduce several bits of information to one unit. Using binary would probably be less efficient there. I may be wrong about that last thing though. < 1325966767 493000 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're probably right < 1325966773 758872 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. its not just vs binary < 1325966782 547530 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm going to suck at TF2 now. < 1325966783 857226 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1325966787 679352 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to remember my telephone number in binary :P < 1325966790 902311 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i got to thinking < 1325966810 927923 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there could be an operation on a number where you do something to a number and it's reverse < 1325966811 123145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not so many good reasons to favour 10 over 16, though. < 1325966812 235911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, anyway binary is useful for computers because it keeps the electronics simple. < 1325966826 730176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. I'm not saying decimal is optimal < 1325966834 782686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that binary isn't for a human. < 1325966844 176943 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: plurality of numeral encoding is revolting < 1325966848 661122 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 is comparatively common among human civilizations < 1325966849 610977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, eh? < 1325966852 149071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what? < 1325966859 49598 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: plurality of numeral encoding is great < 1325966863 748447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, ah yes, the Babylonians used that, right? < 1325966870 413844 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, so I believe < 1325966870 890075 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you mean there are many bases? < 1325966874 865872 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, or what? < 1325966881 175212 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than bases even < 1325966885 540915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1325966891 409303 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are an infinite number of bases anyway < 1325966904 871928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything else doesn't matter unless it is uncountable < 1325966905 192878 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like say.. church numerals, electronic binary numerals, arabic decimal numerals < 1325966919 323928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, why did you call it revolting? < 1325966929 477887 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the topic < 1325966934 641501 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, anyway I think we should count using gray code. :D < 1325966960 828807 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :godel numerals which i wouldnt know < 1325966991 854716 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what is the topic then? < 1325967004 769018 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality, the Prequel: The Attack of the Nerds | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325967009 843232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325967030 50861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1325967034 104838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant because of the topic of the discssion < 1325967037 9420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussion* < 1325967040 139898 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so yeah.. so i was thinking like func(2012) = 2012 + 2102; func(2012) = 2012 x 2102; func(2012) = 2012 - 2102; func(2012) = 2012 / 2102 < 1325967041 252232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than because of the channel topic < 1325967043 370195 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1325967050 705255 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.. it was ambiguous and weird of me < 1325967064 918448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1325967083 264944 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, also those definitions of func are incompatible with each other < 1325967088 973921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually spent most of the time since I was last online asleep < 1325967094 924096 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true.. < 1325967100 900398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 24-hour period, I was awake for only about 3 hours or so in the middle < 1325967102 487680 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what to name them < 1325967105 152432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe a fewm inutes at each end < 1325967116 409042 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if such an operation is common < 1325967172 510889 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1325967203 551398 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ... func_blah1(12345) = 12345 + 54321; func_blah2(12345) = 12345 * 54321 < 1325967212 912443 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I tried both the java.nio stuff with one thread and java.io with many threads and I have to say I find the async IO a lot more intuitive and easier to deal with. < 1325967223 379836 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yet it seems people prefer the thread approach? Why? < 1325967241 380851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because it means that things that should be independent, actually are < 1325967252 604412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to put it another way, a round-robin scheduler written by hand is not ideal for every application < 1325967283 982783 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was basically wondering if by taking a number and it's reverse as being 2 operands instead of 1, that you could compress the number < 1325967299 572478 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an extra bit of info saying whether to do this operation < 1325967351 870775 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a) They are not independent connections, they interact, so they aren't independent. b) true, but it isn't like this is computational expensive. I'm not going to gain anything from SMP here. Probably I'll lose quite a bit if the threads end up on different CPUs due to the large amount of working with shared resources, that also need to be syncronized. < 1325967382 554722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case you have an unusual use pattern, and your solution might actually be best < 1325967439 461887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed, the only independent part is really the packet parsing, and that is quite trivial. Since it is a game server (and a small world) the threads all interact on the same shared state once the parsing is done. < 1325967462 298234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also turn based < 1325967505 495815 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dDgO hi someone complain about this code. < 1325967521 188838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw erlang does have a form of a sync IO, it is kind of unusual though, it is based on message passing < 1325967525 988485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :async* < 1325967526 144879 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like f(int a,bit b) = { if b == 0 return a; else return a * reversed_digits(a); } < 1325967572 617 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325967620 736291 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure if I want to use the (File, Rank) coordinate system. < 1325967629 185327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically you get a message to the process that tells you a socket is ready for IO, then you read like normal. (There is also a form that sends all the data as messages, but that is not recommended unless the rate of packets is rather low) < 1325967653 788742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, that exists in Linux too < 1325967659 114127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can request a SIGIO when data's available < 1325967659 272780 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :better yet func(5.0) = 5.0 x 0.5 = 2.5 ... yeesh this is absurd < 1325967699 58257 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325967725 346598 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, erlang has quite a bit more advanced message passing than plain signals. I believe you actually get the first packet of data (and a flag for if there is any more) when you put it in the trigger-once mode I described. < 1325967760 157401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or func(a^b) = a^b * b^a < 1325967795 315459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway for linux that sounds rather inefficient. Unless SIGIO has a payload saying which fd it was. < 1325967852 415527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yep, it can have a payload < 1325967861 774561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you have to specifically request one, probably for backwards compatibility < 1325967866 574869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325967941 449018 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if doing map lookups on each access is worth the trouble of having a continguous 64 byte representation of the portal chess game state. < 1325967956 99876 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly memory efficient. < 1325967967 885389 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325967991 349010 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in general erlang networking is unusual. I don't know any other high level language with built in support for SCTP for example. Or that has it's own DNS resolver that it uses if the OS doesn't provide one. < 1325968031 275287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have no idea what sort of systems the latter was meant for) < 1325968041 813606 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :microwaves < 1325968132 825174 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that doesn't have an OS. < 1325968138 911430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1325968146 855185 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang is basically a standalone mini-OS. < 1325968155 582382 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, might be for some sort of embedded target. Erlang runs on vxworks for example. < 1325968213 935365 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, also I know other environment that transparently lets you send an open file descriptor to another computer and have it work properly :P < 1325968267 208816 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell should get library support for that kind of stuff. < 1325968269 481605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(might not necessarily be efficient though, but iirc you can tell the VM about nfs mounts and such so it can make use of shared files. < 1325968297 481212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, also hot-swapping currently executing code :P That might be more annoying in haskell. < 1325968320 938643 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm familiar with that one. < 1325968325 534373 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a bit of effort to get that working. < 1325968343 306207 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their framework thing is kind of weird. < 1325968349 572394 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang or in haskell? < 1325968356 650660 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang < 1325968361 242555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do need to provide code if the state representation changed < 1325968365 491427 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325968375 498512 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1325968393 442996 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell solution: write perfect code that never needs to change < 1325968429 167746 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, but apart from that if you use the built in behaviours (such as gen_server) it is trivial < 1325968453 709752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway I wrote my own module doing this once where gen_server, gen_fsm and so on weren't suitable. It was quite easy < 1325968468 157809 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't really make sense of their documentation on those. < 1325968474 699688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just use the proc_lib module < 1325968479 62478 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recally being very confused at the time of reading. < 1325968496 262101 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi everyone: complain about my Haskell < 1325968499 634389 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dDgO < 1325968500 743484 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and sys I believe < 1325968509 623759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, about gen_server? < 1325968510 98256 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: complain < 1325968524 753530 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the whole thing. I don't remember the name of it. they gave it some weird name. < 1325968529 303070 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, eh, basically you implement a callback module and gen_server provides the event loop and such. < 1325968530 810871 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their library thing. < 1325968549 170014 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, err they gave their db library a weird name, is that what you mean? < 1325968565 385088 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1325968569 626761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, mnesia? < 1325968573 334443 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : also hi everyone: complain about my Haskell < 1325968574 365593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used it < 1325968575 674186 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I recall gen_server being part of like some standard erlang pattern that had a weird name < 1325968579 155821 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1325968624 335726 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can only assume you're writing a huge reply about how terrible my code is. < 1325968627 347649 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is good. < 1325968628 139950 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, well you generally put your gen_servers in a supervisor tree, to allow error-recovery if a process crashes. < 1325968634 312447 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, no, I'm not < 1325968635 303715 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't really weird < 1325968646 99903 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought people thought you were asking them to complain about Erlang < 1325968654 441438 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1325968658 487415 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that even happen < 1325968660 432690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no? < 1325968710 61257 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's currently the best portal chess implementation in the world. still in the early alpha stages. < 1325968717 758499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, anyway erlang is quite nice. Sure there are some issues with it, but nothing major enough to make me dislike it. < 1325968733 967527 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325968737 731047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, it is also the only one :P < 1325968745 513513 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I recall the line seperators being annoying, but I'm sure I'd get used to it. < 1325968751 353961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1325968760 251182 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that annoyed me for like the first week or so < 1325968765 217936 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to it now < 1325968774 17844 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src lines < 1325968774 177415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. And you call yourself a Rocket Scientist! < 1325968811 935747 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I profile later and find that I need some more speed in my indexing function then I might rewrite that general Enum-maker thing that elliott wrote with some hardcoded arithmetic. < 1325968875 966130 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325968918 735694 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly it's not much at the moment. Just a definition of the game board, code to set up the board's initial configuration, an indexing function, and a map function. < 1325969091 628659 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1325969173 667001 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the physical version of the game should use actual mirrors and penlights :P < 1325969191 519777 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that nothing in the game actually corresponds to a mirror < 1325969199 660315 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325969203 112239 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right.. just portals < 1325969206 666246 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool cool < 1325969227 1027 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something or other just disregard my comment < 1325969241 841729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, it should just use actual portals. < 1325969260 220600 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally does a pen light create a beam as it bounces off a mirror? < 1325969294 307296 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pen laser might be the term < 1325969318 750428 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard that also......... < 1325969334 286467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I would suggest you do not look at the reflection of a laser. < 1325969385 778895 :Guest554115!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net NICK :Guest554116 < 1325969399 956422 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it bounce off neatly like a >| ? < 1325969414 981709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I recall the safety instructions on the physics labs. There was a list of the different gruesome ways lasers of different wavelengths mess up your eyes. Like, if it's infrared, the eye-closing reflex won't happen, and it'll boil some stuff, and so on. < 1325969426 516708 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1325969433 285057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall lasers even being involved in any of the tasks. < 1325969434 711658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes like usual in mirrors < 1325969442 312329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, ^ < 1325969458 957980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, so you would get pretty much the same result as looking straight into a laser < 1325969464 125567 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, which is obviously bad < 1325969480 615128 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant looking on from the side < 1325969500 65388 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you wouldn't see any beam anyway unless the air was dusty < 1325969511 991731 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if it's bright enough. < 1325969529 918840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, not if it's really non-dusty and non-humid. < 1325969534 529139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think you can ever see a laser beam passing through a transparent medium? < 1325969535 362910 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok suppose someone has just slammed a bag of flour on the ground yet remembered to keep the mirror clean < 1325969544 879472 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe if it turns the air to plasma? < 1325969552 234457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1325969556 41252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you have other problems < 1325969568 767940 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, eh. No idea < 1325969570 513496 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somehow you bounce a laser off this mirror, through flour < 1325969577 914656 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think you would get a bounce? < 1325969578 73499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"good luck" < 1325969580 653639 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, no, but "air" in most places isn't absolutely free of particles. < 1325969583 990784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :D < 1325969607 987364 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yes, but is it usually enough to actually see the laser? < 1325969610 684793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anyway, it's got molecules in it. < 1325969621 256808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "Higher-power and higher-frequency green or blue lasers may produce a beam visible even in clean air because of Rayleigh scattering from air molecules, especially when viewed in moderately-to-dimly lit conditions." < 1325969624 708787 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this evening's morbid discovery: there is apparently a small bird hanging from the neighbor's flag. < 1325969629 707190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ooh, cool < 1325969631 490468 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i understand the point here.. light is only visible when it is reflected off something < 1325969668 780267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Such pointers, particularly in the green-light output range, are used as astronomical-object pointers for teaching purposes." < 1325969671 953769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err rather < 1325969674 652506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, light not hitting your eye is not visible :P < 1325969689 896699 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325969708 699353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, and if a laser pointing away from you isn't reflected off something it isn't going to hit your eye < 1325969732 791837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, i still don't have a camera.) < 1325969746 319954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about your cell phone? < 1325969757 436912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does that. < 1325969765 542849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also is the bird dead? < 1325969776 531054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just "hanging out"? < 1325969790 396846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: deep frozen, if i judge by the sound effects of its hitting the flag pole. < 1325969800 921427 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how does it stay up? < 1325969810 59924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, rather than fall to the ground? < 1325969833 742790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked like the end of the flag had twirled around it a bit < 1325969861 107494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its claws got stuck to it < 1325969875 46802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325969884 810669 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so not a rope around the neck then? < 1325969905 970046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a little hard to see in the dark, but it looked like a birdy shape < 1325969926 142530 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I meant a rope around the neck of the bird... < 1325969926 775623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail and head visible < 1325969952 11354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm hanging wouldn't work on birds, they could just hover to avoid it killing them) < 1325969953 915127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... i'd guess bumping into the flag pole would tend to do the killing < 1325969972 376178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the wind < 1325969979 679459 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm surprised, birds bumping into windows and such doesn't tend to kill them. Hm. < 1325969997 596547 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't? < 1325969998 784669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i've definitely seen a bird killed by bumping into a window < 1325970001 162542 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't tend to die* < 1325970007 469380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes they do die from that. < 1325970025 406370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it was a pretty eerie omen when it happened, just before my mom died < 1325970051 98026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no? I seen various small birds eating old fermenting fruit lying around, getting drunk, flying into a window, fall down, lie around for a few minutes and then get up < 1325970058 734884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ouch < 1325970107 104351 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is rönn in English hm < 1325970114 211452 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbus_aucuparia < 1325970120 925249 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, usually those fruits ^ < 1325970154 122145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :very sour fruits. < 1325970156 66378 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Window collisions kill as many as 100 million birds every year in the United States, more than every other cause of death (including outdoor cats, cell phone towers, and wind turbines) combined", says a newspaper. (Disclaimer: no idea about reliability.) < 1325970169 175173 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1325970186 137727 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly they don't *always* die from it. < 1325970200 110675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, never seen a bird die from a window collision, probably does happen though. Maybe the Swedish birds are smarter? ;) < 1325970245 825783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'd assume it depends on the speed of the bird < 1325970260 148699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So maybe the Swedish birds are just lazier. < 1325970262 53194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're drunk, they probably don't do very high speed flying < 1325970280 910092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure? drunk drivers often drive faster then non-drunk drivers < 1325970287 740842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although sometimes they drive very slowly instead < 1325970299 936365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah but they don't have to use their own muscle power :P < 1325970308 915947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drunk runners don't run so terribly fast, I don't think. < 1325970313 869006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or straight. < 1325970370 760012 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I never seen a non-drunk bird collide with windows. Might depend on what sort of birds you have in the area. It is mostly various small birds (house sparrow and other birds of that sort of size) and jackdaws around here. < 1325970381 890376 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :And iirc jackdaws are rather smart for being birds. < 1325970434 473484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well i didn't _see_ it colliding, i heard a *bang* and found a dead bird afterwards < 1325970479 670881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well I never claimed to count actually seen collisions < 1325970488 121728 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err to only* < 1325970517 508896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I never found any other evidence either for such deadly collisions < 1325970533 462480 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone complained about my Haskell yet? < 1325970535 564529 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dDgO < 1325970666 895104 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gads, was there a way to stop Google from messing around with outgoing links? The "copy link address" is so useless now. < 1325970699 405191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, using a firefox addon for that works < 1325970709 587412 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :customizegoogle iirc < 1325970715 636008 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Meh." < 1325970717 206753 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean birds would enter houses often if the windows weren't there? < 1325970736 544291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The commonly accepted explanation is that it's the reflection that confuses them. < 1325970741 939673 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They think there's empty space ahead. < 1325970744 838125 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this the sound of people complaining about my Haskell? < 1325970748 486355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that doesn't explain water < 1325970751 977174 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems oddly unlikely that. < 1325970754 199111 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ly < 1325970757 728650 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :werjiwejrojwetjwoerj owiejr oiwjertoijweoirjwoeitjoiwjeroijwetoijweoirjwoietjiowjer < 1325970766 93125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, nobody cares? < 1325970775 455792 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe they think its water < 1325970777 423346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: the complaints seem to suffer from an elliott deficiency < 1325970785 193655 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas. < 1325970799 715914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Birds have had a rather longer to come to grips with water than vertical sheets of glass. (Also water surfaces are, I suppose, mostly horizontal.) < 1325970807 88970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, usually birds doesn't try to fly straight into water like that though. Not unless they are like seagulls < 1325970817 40860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And rarely flat.) < 1325970818 983730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1325970835 553524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on a calm day you can find flat ponds and such < 1325970860 657782 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we invent proper force fields we can test how birds react to vertical water. < 1325970861 612181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. Still, not flat vertical ponds, for the most of the time. < 1325970867 401008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325970874 466012 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In the interests of science. < 1325970884 935372 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok probably not water < 1325970889 940127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: precisely! < 1325970908 892868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and waterfalls are usually not reflective hm < 1325970953 891510 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not for us to know < 1325970963 848574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway normal glass doesn't really let UV-light through right? < 1325970969 692334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iirc birds can see a bit into UV < 1325970980 522555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, bird-window collisions are a much-studied thing; cf. http://training.fws.gov/EC/Resources/mig_birds/handouts/Window_Collision_Bibliography.pdf < 1325970985 322705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it couldn't be that they see through it, but rather it must be the reflection < 1325971020 732635 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder if normal glass looks like a mirror in UV < 1325971025 372820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it may be different shades of UV that's involved < 1325971026 570659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah i have heard of such kind of senses.. specifically in some kind of magic shrimp < 1325971031 375978 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes < 1325971032 171429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultraviolet range is much larger than the visible range < 1325971040 781147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325971042 606638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm moderately sure that at least near UV can get through glass < 1325971063 900540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wonder how much of UV that birds can see < 1325971102 280571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes I very much doubt that glass exactly matches the visible range of humans < 1325971168 596050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: among other things, it transmits green better than other colors < 1325971177 74165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever look at a sheet of glass edge-on, that will be reasonably obvious < 1325971183 204911 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes I know < 1325971185 132570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, but can it be implemented without having implemented seq first? <-- no, you need to do a type-specific pattern match and for functions even that doesn't work (and seq in fact forces the semantics of functions to change so \x -> undefined x is no longer the same as undefined, i.e. breaking eta equivalence) < 1325971206 195554 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, looks like green with a slight blue tint < 1325971240 307413 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can't really notice it unless edge on though. Hm. < 1325971245 946530 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325971252 251729 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess very thick layer of glass < 1325971273 62384 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1325971370 393789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tate.org.uk/research/tateresearch/tatepapers/05spring/images/charman_fig2.gif -- 'a' is claimed to be standard window glass. < 1325971389 697089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and b and c? < 1325971418 390118 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum (Just False) < 1325971419 183014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Enum.Enum (Data.Maybe.Maybe GHC.Bool.Bool)) < 1325971419 342515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising... < 1325971438 281496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: b is specifically "colourless" and "UV-absorbing" sort of glass; c is some sort of UV-absorbing acrylic. < 1325971454 402837 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and d is some sort of optimal? < 1325971461 133107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And d is some sort of "ideal" UV filter, yes. < 1325971487 700117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in context of UV protection for covered paintings. < 1325971493 359587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1325971525 190980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably b is the best solution unless the colours are such that the cut-off of the acrylic doesn't matter < 1325971562 583067 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325971758 410225 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's stop lying about monads please < 1325971767 869356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who did that? < 1325971809 129001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :Official revolting channel of the frequent stupid topic change plurality, the Prequel: The Revenge of the Monad | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1325971835 425830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also apparently one species of bird (European starling) has maximum responsivity at 362 nm, and still 40% at 300 nm, for one of its four types of cone cells, in case you were wondering how far into UV they go. < 1325971854 752556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also their cones seem to be rather more sensibly distributed than human ones: http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/images/content/Absorption_peaks.jpg < 1325971865 22822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to complain if you happen to meet your own designer. < 1325971872 510015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving all the good eyes to some stupid birds. < 1325971948 602813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, I wouldn't want to change atm. It would mess up using monitors so badly. < 1325971952 648167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/images/content/Absorption_peaksZ.jpg -- that's a bit larger. < 1325971982 2626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we ever meet aliens, they are going to find our color reproduction schemes hilarious < 1325971988 786605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1325972011 514098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and we would probably find the same about them < 1325972012 532114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with tetrachromatic vision they could sensibly use a 2x2 color filter pattern instead of going all RG/GB or so. < 1325972036 49540 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three primaries is such an awkward number. < 1325972041 47705 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1325972055 679534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I doubt it is arranged like RGGB in our eyes though < 1325972069 526870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway can't you tile a plane with triangles iirc? < 1325972072 105049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also four components of 8 bits would fit nicely into a 32-bit quantity. (Though then you wouldn't have room for an alpha channel in there.) < 1325972081 488371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it is always made approximate < 1325972119 87918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can, but grids are much easier. < 1325972121 62986 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had a computer display that can change its wavelength then you could make better quality colors, probably < 1325972130 782010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if we'd also go to triangular monitors? < 1325972133 44196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, anyway can't you tile a plane with triangles iirc? < 1325972133 996079 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1325972189 29882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: unless the aliens have eyes based on actual spectography < 1325972218 615108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Or maybe before we meet them we've just upgraded our eyes too. < 1325972227 318447 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what? < 1325972241 969846 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'iirc'. < 1325972242 128961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is obviously possible if you consider it. < 1325972253 546789 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not something you could trivially state to be correct. < 1325972284 397990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't see the issue. I don't deal with tiling infinite planes on an every-day basis. *shrug* < 1325972289 172514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: now prove that you can tile the plane with _any_ shape of triangle >:) < 1325972312 263009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, rotate it 180°, fit two sides together. < 1325972313 533515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is patently obvious. A proof might take a bit of work though < 1325972325 487781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fit the resulting parallelograms into strips. < 1325972330 131863 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fit the strips together. < 1325972334 4795 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Can't you just take the equilateral triangle tiling and transform those triangles? < 1325972339 908420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1325972383 71899 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Dungeons&Dragons game my characters are the monster character some character might even have different number of eyes and some have dark vision probabily it is simplest to assume for purpose of game rules, you can everyone see colors in same way unless you are color blind. Otherwise you can make even more confusion than spell/etc! And I have already used relativity for resolving spells in D&D game, now this < 1325972402 807031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall something about the "physics" of darkvision somewhere. < 1325972412 23887 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 64 < 1325972412 818171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6.0 < 1325972422 777641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that got cut off < 1325972424 86035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm it's not entirely obvious that the transform will give triangles and upside down ones the same shape afterward (of course you can probably choose the transform to give what Phantom_Hoover said) < 1325972477 830866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which afaict is the same as what i was thinking of) < 1325972483 209676 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did it? My last words were ", now this" but I did not put any period at the end or anything like that sorry < 1325972490 930899 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ah < 1325972500 328838 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325972535 92318 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1325972605 102270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Olé < 1325972820 64908 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325973167 870950 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum False < 1325973168 505792 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1325973202 854887 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1325973446 157411 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325973456 273218 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :test = print (toEnum . fromEnum $ Square (Just (Piece White (Arrow North))) (Just (Loop North Bidirectional)) :: Square) < 1325973457 460860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, assuming an affine map is enough to turn an equilateral triangle into any sort of triangle, T = [a1 a2 b1; a3 a4 b2; 0 0 1], R = [-1 0 0; 0 -1 0; 0 0 1], RTR = [a1 a2 -b1; a3 a4 -b2; 0 0 1], and that just means if you make the upside-down triangle (Rx), transform it (TRx), and rotate it again (RTRx) it just gets shifted to the opposite direction; that sounds quite obviously congruent with transformed right-side-up triangles (Tx). < 1325973465 648013 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PortalChess> test < 1325973467 116563 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square Nothing Nothing < 1325973470 246896 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU < 1325973740 70731 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I wonder why digital cameras use RGBG and such rather than triangular RGB sensors < 1325973756 358708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok congruent but possibly mirrored < 1325973757 984656 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-87-159.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEY LOVE GREEN < 1325973781 129694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1325973782 242863 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Possibly because people want to get rectangular images? < 1325973820 44423 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem 0 8 < 1325973820 878673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0,0) < 1325973831 299107 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem 8 8 < 1325973832 92006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1,0) < 1325973834 58874 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1325973844 389194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh, you don't need to make the whole sensors triangular, just the elements < 1325973849 702120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't really grasp homogeneous coordinates used that way < 1325973856 856406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i assume that's what it is < 1325973858 552123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get an uneven edge sure, but I don't see why that is a problem < 1325973892 214961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, looks to me like the same way they are used in opengl kind of? < 1325973893 848791 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: could you maybe take a look at the Enum instances in this program and see if you see anything strange? http://sprunge.us/ALeN < 1325973899 350896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that what you don't grasp? < 1325973922 200143 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I seem to be getting zeros something. Because my test case becomes Square Nothing Nothing < 1325974017 513413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think i have another intuitive argument that affine transformations do what you say, though. (just assume it keeps the triangle base fixed) < 1325974048 441190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm just not very used to actually using them < 1325974056 279942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah < 1325974102 278755 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I found it < 1325974104 656731 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1325974133 519941 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noep < 1325974146 378400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Come to think of it, if you nail one point of a triangle to (0,0), isn't a linear map enough to move the other two points anywhere you want, giving you the possibility of getting (right-side-up) triangles of any shape you could want? In that case you wouldn't even need to speak about homogenous coordinates, and RTR = T. < 1325974165 426493 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the midpoint of the base is also fixed, and it's on the line between the remaining vertices of the right-side up and upside down triangles when put on that same base, so those vertices are skewed to each side < 1325974202 756347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well yes, linear map = affine map fixing the origin < 1325974345 518851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It might also be easier to manufacture grids. Anyway, they're not all using RGBG; some I think do (or at least it has been suggested) RGBW, where one pixel is transparent and therefore gets all wavelengths, in order to increase the overall light sensitivity of the sensor. < 1325974364 990351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's a bit analoguous to "three types of cones and then the rods" sort of arrangement. < 1325974393 742330 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there was that one with an "emerald" pixel. :p < 1325974410 400910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which I think was named just because it sounds so good in PR literature.) < 1325974419 468835 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1325974438 463640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you mean some sort of extra colour humans can't see? < 1325974443 384236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, not directly < 1325974452 889 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem 2 8 < 1325974452 635881 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (0,2) < 1325974461 153998 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> quotRem 10 8 < 1325974461 946463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (1,2) < 1325974465 553935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: in your Enum PieceInfo, you have some toEnum x 's that should be toEnum m < 1325974478 504028 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes I spotted that, but it didn't fix anything.. < 1325974506 913962 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same output < 1325974510 295261 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that case never happened < 1325974548 482859 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing it's some minor mismatch of variables somewhere < 1325974556 406918 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm tired and can't spot it. :P < 1325974612 868959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, they'd obviously transform those to (sRGB or someRGB) pixels in post-processing; but you already need to do that "demosaicing" thing for RGBG sensors since the R, G and B samples are from different locations, and I guess you might get more accurate reproduction with four types of samples, I don't know? < 1325974675 496586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I've sometimes wondered if any cameras, if you turn a "black-and-white" mode on, produces "double-resolution" images. < 1325974761 756605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that dcraw has a flag for that. < 1325974794 176566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-d: Show the raw data as a grayscale image with no interpolation. Good for photographing black-and-white documents. < 1325974794 332904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :-D: Same as -d, but totally raw (no color scaling)." < 1325974799 511668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, that small-d one. < 1325974882 743193 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Enum Piece has a mismatch between fromEnum and toEnum, i think < 1325974885 517966 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose for a colour scene you won't get very good "greyscale" images from the individual filtered pixels. < 1325974992 681219 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325975093 164948 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325975199 304419 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : fromEnum (Piece p i) = (fromEnum p * 21) + fromEnum i < 1325975199 460302 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : toEnum i = let (d,m) = i `quotRem` 21 < 1325975200 455682 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : in Piece (toEnum d) (toEnum m) < 1325975204 261987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I suppose camera sensor pixel counts count all "subpixels" separately and then reconstruct an image with an RGB pixel at each spatial location, no matter which color channel was sampled at that point? If so, then it's a bit asymmetric w.r.t. monitors, since nobody there advertises the subpixel counts. < 1325975205 785518 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is the current definition < 1325975210 185741 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that one is correct. < 1325975225 779063 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm true < 1325975274 983354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: yes that's what i thought < 1325975310 602019 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...still broken. :P < 1325975311 553154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any other Enum errors, although that's a horrible mess of compile time constants < 1325975318 726661 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, indeed. < 1325975331 640320 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could make bounded instances as well. < 1325975333 543021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1325975334 337493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => a -> Int < 1325975337 433534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325975343 599740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you fixed that PieceInfo part too? < 1325975348 560773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t toEnum < 1325975349 195130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Enum a) => Int -> a < 1325975357 957900 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1325975410 534327 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Piece < 1325975410 890063 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package path-pieces < 1325975411 48453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :package TimePiece < 1325975415 410281 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... < 1325975419 536131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Piece < 1325975419 892385 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Sorry. < 1325975422 509491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1325975439 385130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have heard of cameras that don't do the Bayer filter thing at all, and instead include three separate CCD sensors and some sort of a prism-splitter thing in the middle. (Apparently mostly in professional video recording use.) < 1325975448 147511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sheesh it's from kallisti's program < 1325975452 353704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh < 1325975461 779918 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, WHY CAN'T HOOGLE INDEX ALL RELEVANT CODE! < 1325975483 362811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes I heard about those too < 1325975489 507313 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can thank elliott for convincing me to take this route (well, he eventually suggested a cleaner way but this one will be more efficient (blah blah blah profile before you optimize stuff etc)) < 1325975511 15792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: have you remembered to reload/recompile? >:) < 1325975519 711813 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....yes < 1325975524 191803 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless :l doesn't recompile < 1325975540 966174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :use :r just in case < 1325975561 674741 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square Nothing Nothing < 1325975573 624755 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try some different inputs < 1325975577 79703 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if I can get something different. < 1325975578 217383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: do you have a smaller breaking test case? < 1325975599 199774 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can replace either of the two fields with a Nothing and it will still break like that < 1325975617 341864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you convert a field by itself? < 1325975678 470340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, give me the smallest breaking value whose parts don't break < 1325975685 888995 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO THE SCIENCE LAB < 1325975690 959527 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE WE EXPERIMENT IN /COMPUTER SCIENCE/ < 1325975720 924957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, be careful of any lasers < 1325975731 486894 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well sheesh now that you're forcing me to do thorough testing I can probably just find it myself. < 1325975749 253548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :viaInt x = (toEnum $ fromEnum x) `asTypeOf` x might be useful < 1325975773 982861 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and dpreview mentioned this really fancy "Foveon X3" sensor, which works really magically, by sticking three sensors on top of each other and using the fact that light of different wavelength is absorbed at different depths in silicon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveon_X3_sensor -- that's so clever. < 1325975793 998433 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh < 1325975798 962181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice < 1325975877 963438 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: you realize that would have been easier than trying to mentally check the code in the first place, right? < 1325975943 862440 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but testing is tedious < 1325975963 424365 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION logic < 1325975993 161340 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325976051 202768 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would appear that the smallest breaking test case is the one I started with. < 1325976060 446851 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only one that messes up is the Square type < 1325976083 724116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1325976127 91234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: can i get the actual fromEnum value of your test case? < 1325976142 151909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, very cool indeed < 1325976156 495571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how are the sensors placed in human eyes? < 1325976171 336741 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: all these good ideas... where do they come from? :P < 1325976171 973829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about how many megapixels do human eyes produce? < 1325976190 238648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I've seen some pictures somewhere; "rather messily", and the resolution depends very heavily on the angle. < 1325976197 97118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1325976202 855720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in all, it's clear it hasn't been designed by an *engineer*. < 1325976206 347894 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325976206 507939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably an arts guy. < 1325976209 404021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1325976218 126248 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh hmmm 434 < 1325976240 911832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 434 `quotRem` 17 < 1325976241 704701 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (25,9) < 1325976286 382964 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, look at this stuff: http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~avery/course/3400/vision/rod_cone_distribution2.jpg < 1325976298 187317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what about the average resolution? And what about the resolution near the center? < 1325976347 22888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so uh in dark humans see best towards the sides? < 1325976364 888025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. But note that it's not very much towards the sides. < 1325976368 932154 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten degrees isn't all that much. < 1325976375 131022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1325976377 390961 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1325976385 166808 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you don't really see any colors except right in the middle. < 1325976407 181395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there seem to be a few cones towards the sides, just very few < 1325976409 122904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1325976412 175411 :iconmaster!~iconmaste@cpe-74-79-18-174.twcny.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1325976450 983444 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can kind of see that the floor is greenish in the corner of my eye, not sure how much that is because I know what colour it is or because I can see a bit of it < 1325976451 618002 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there's in total some 120 million rods and 6-7 million cones. < 1325976461 119528 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I fear I will need more than a Word8 to store board squares. :P < 1325976495 796009 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't that work out to 120 MP for the first (if it was evenly distributed and so on?) < 1325976504 936459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: btw when you said every subpart works correctly, does that include the Maybes? < 1325976520 626884 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh.. < 1325976520 782794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, that's how many "pixels" there are. < 1325976523 406713 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't check those. < 1325976525 150441 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1325976526 103009 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot < 1325976532 101138 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite a good resolution < 1325976532 260598 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet they result in Nothings < 1325976537 37090 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1325976539 296641 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's fine out < 1325976561 860366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, sounds like a fine idea < 1325976582 660198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh wait, found the bug :D < 1325976613 809400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :toEnum for Maybe misses the Just and so recurses down to Nothing < 1325976647 935379 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1325976670 733165 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joys of overloaded functions. < 1325976761 71850 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it bothered to terminate by accident < 1325976789 459000 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep seems fine now. < 1325976813 391364 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As for the angular resolution at the center, apparently that's somewhere around 0.3 arc-minutes. So you need almost 600 ppi at a distance of 50 cm to get over that. < 1325976826 76691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does the victory dance < 1325976843 908545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1325976845 18391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an impressive sensor, sure, but it still feels quite haphazardly designed. I mean, with that blind spot and all. < 1325976857 934333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be one amazing monitor < 1325976878 218739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably would require a much better GPU if I wanted a reasonably large monitor as well < 1325976882 26009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The blind spot is an especially good example since it's completely unnecessary. < 1325976900 788475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes the nerves could just go straight back a bit instead first < 1325976905 197283 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325976925 612039 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, and they do in some species. < 1325976930 374959 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325976978 748189 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do humans have one nerve per rod/cone or are they combined early on? < 1325977018 348313 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1325977033 144262 :kallisti!~eris@h85.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325977038 604243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think they're summed up; that's part of the angular resolution calculations. < 1325977045 983444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the fovea, which has high acuity, these ganglion cells connect to as few as 5 photoreceptor cells; in other areas of retina, they connect to many thousand photoreceptors." < 1325977053 808401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1325977072 778249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at the edges you've got both sparser distribution and less nerves. < 1325977079 858582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1325977095 435278 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they managed to keep the noise level down though < 1325977104 762718 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless my brain is outsmarting me again < 1325977115 537757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains are good at lying. < 1325977118 730000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, to themselves too. < 1325977127 804758 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1325977151 558827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder how the SNR of the eye compares to the SNR of professional cameras < 1325977186 195383 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well mostly in the center. You get some very good averaging when you have a thousand samples < 1325977211 293752 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1325977288 941960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does do averaging over time too. < 1325977326 483946 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (21 * 2 + 1) * (8 * 2) < 1325977327 277079 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 688 < 1325977330 700753 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1325977333 157680 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325977348 57520 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (21 * 2 + 1) * (8 * 2 + 1) < 1325977348 358468 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 731 < 1325977352 758508 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go. < 1325977398 956899 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: really this is code that GHC could autogenerate for product types where the fields are Bounded and Enum < 1325977427 968958 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would also be possible for sum types too < 1325977461 579109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they're bounded, yes < 1325977463 532663 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PieceInfo is a sum type, for example. it just calculates offsets < 1325977546 166041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: you could get autogeneration if you made your product types newtypes over tuples instead >:) < 1325977561 787299 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks < 1325977581 514073 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you actually suggesting what's considering bad practice in the Haskell community? shame on you. < 1325977587 881227 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ed < 1325977650 380548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well given that you cannot presently do generalized deriving for something with more than one field... < 1325977685 795788 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Square (Just (Piece (White, Arrow North))) (Just (Loop (Northwest, Unidirectional))) < 1325977689 458656 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good < 1325977690 567494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they could make that an extension < 1325977718 692855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Test ... = Test A B deriving (...) uses (A,B) to derive from < 1325977742 736572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*would use < 1325977772 765830 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1325977783 517622 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be good < 1325977789 462337 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a way to derive typeclasses yourself? < 1325977792 791948 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone has already done this. < 1325977801 155434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some template haskell stuff < 1325977940 565936 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one day I should use that for something. < 1325977944 276902 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and something based on autogenerating code, which you have to include in the program if not using template haskell < 1325978089 754631 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derivationParams :: String -> ([Type] -> (String -> Decl) -> FullDataDecl -> Either String [Decl]) -> Derivation < 1325978094 790060 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good type. for a bright future < 1325978112 49240 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: no documentation < 1325978167 747654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYPES ARE ALL THE DOCUMENTATIN YOU NEED < 1325978189 491316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION once again finds typo correction inappropriate < 1325978191 235055 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the Either is a possible error message. < 1325978266 223399 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1325978421 576461 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should I make the Synthesizer datatype in my program? Probably it should have multiple constructors and recursive structues; I have one OctetStream constructor but I should need to have more, to do sine wave, additive, subtraction, I don't know what else, or exactly how they would be functioned < 1325978492 699376 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what is this for. < 1325978568 952534 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for audio signals: Time -> Int and [(Time, Int)] are good < 1325978714 637881 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is for a program I make, in Haskell, to compile MML to S3M. To load samples, there are two ways, one way is from file, other way is from synthesis. < 1325978737 41944 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know exactly how the mathematical synthesis should be represented in this program < 1325978791 395418 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just use an audio signal? < 1325978820 55888 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in PCM format? < 1325978835 199185 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, seems a bit dumb for S3M at least (not sure what MML is) < 1325978861 657633 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_, from what I remember S3M is a tracker file format. Like .mod or such < 1325978911 654756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I could use audio signal, and can be loaded from a file, but the way I am thinking, the other way is to use internal audio synthesis from mathematical formula but am unsure how to make it read the token to make a waveform synthesis from that. < 1325978936 283355 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know anything about these file formats. < 1325978965 127322 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not needed to know about these file formats to answer my question < 1325979165 350546 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what is MML though? Another tracker format? < 1325979174 776380 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, MML is music macro language < 1325979181 674082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it < 1325979184 294329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you invent it? < 1325979188 663449 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1325979207 342886 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are many variants of MML although some features are common in most of them < 1325979208 386854 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't sound like any actual synthesis is involed. but I don't know what MML does. < 1325979310 462069 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, MML looks like the thing that you can echo to the PC speaker device on FreeBSD to make it play < 1325979313 36603 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MML doesn't itself do any audio synthesis; although one of the features I am adding is to enter the codes for creating the audio waveforms based on sine waves or envelopes or whatever < 1325979313 673193 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it is the same < 1325979349 446977 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ported that code to Linux using the same method as beep to play. Sadly none of of my current computers have a proper PC speaker < 1325979357 833931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are getting rarer < 1325979366 555496 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know about PC speaker on FreeBSD, but it might be. The PLAY command in QBASIC is a simple kind of MML, so is the PLAY in MegaZeux and the #PLAY in ZZT < 1325979397 727706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, looks like pretty much the same as PLAY in QBASIC according to wikipedia, plus some extensions < 1325979420 391719 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What extensions? < 1325979431 114468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't remember exactly. Check the man page? < 1325979439 797078 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have FreeBSD < 1325979447 97904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have man pages on their websites < 1325979452 967883 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1325979472 855072 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a PlayBP subroutine for use in QBASIC, which works the same as PLAY but using Bohlen-Pierce temperaments < 1325979532 197499 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=spkr&sektion=4&apropos=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.2-RELEASE < 1325979556 291259 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set articulation and such < 1325979577 378266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly the source for that indicates ESR wrote it. < 1325979620 802774 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-230-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1325979621 278800 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@ppp-70-251-230-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net QUIT :Changing host < 1325979621 434827 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1325979708 364370 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/o6o0o/having_an_existential_math_crisis_help/ < 1325979712 977694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's itidus21! < 1325980053 56856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, heh < 1325980182 836237 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I don't really understand bitcoin < 1325980184 461788 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1325980332 204965 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have modified the MegaZeux code to allow its MML to specify any frequency instead of only the 12-TET notes, by using * and the frequency number to play that one < 1325980533 449579 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1325980639 780325 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-162-128-110.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1325980707 407536 :kallisti_!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 6.5 * 5 < 1325980708 199633 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 32.5 < 1325980753 873745 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya found me < 1325980772 453945 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tidus is trying to nut out the meaning of SK < 1325980786 8029 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he is pretty close