< 1326240352 77963 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@71-210-150-147.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326243592 195988 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers taking a break from this channel
< 1326243617 226778 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a good idea. < 1326243621 859501 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do that. < 1326244057 544117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rumors of the great spam reduction seem a little premature < 1326245425 349537 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-24.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326245430 1631 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-225-142.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326245449 536122 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326246233 930480 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326247414 831375 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_random_field < 1326247422 842847 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how good this would be for anti-latency prediction stuff. < 1326248996 548138 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326252285 714080 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326252630 284108 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-153-24.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326252638 928331 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-137.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326253815 283556 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-195-6.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326253837 394537 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-241-137.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1326254774 18758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1326255969 553826 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-219-61.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326255974 713952 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-195-6.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326257363 452834 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zombie 6.001 started today: http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.S184/ < 1326257742 372353 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-219-61.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326257756 423751 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326258297 780849 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the most exotic machine architecture people know about? < 1326258303 182805 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exotic but not absurd < 1326258333 819752 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Z3, by Konrad Zuse? < 1326258358 383870 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill check it out :p < 1326258362 152092 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats so exotic about it? < 1326258400 440799 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :old < 1326258413 447484 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, there are some architectures where the only instruction is "mov" < 1326258413 643240 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically the first modern computer. Also, TC without a conditional branch operator. < 1326258422 139904 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything, even arithmetic, is memory-mapped < 1326258435 355325 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to add numbers, you mov them to the ALU and then mov out of the "addition result" address < 1326258448 1659 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems like it's essentially just a different way to encode instructions. < 1326258450 145929 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: thats kind of nice when you think about it < 1326258457 38677 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 22 bit words. < 1326258470 766789 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly interesting when you can remap memory yourself, I suppose. < 1326258480 535371 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, or move directly between any two functional units < 1326258499 435433 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that's true. < 1326258581 694341 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much about this < 1326259297 749720 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ruskies built base-3 computers < 1326259310 183601 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably balanced ternary < 1326260476 810855 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is funny today < 1326261070 342012 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-122.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326261100 472940 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-214-234.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326263052 66701 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-163-147.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326263131 672715 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-159-48.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326263158 159685 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1326264077 459404 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-14.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326264078 93346 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-198-122.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326264689 891830 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP < 1326265496 906851 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326266092 207088 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326266365 141734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326266405 546946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about? Haskell predates Lisp, and Lisp predates APL. In fact, Haskell was made just two years after assemblers were invented. – trinithis 9 hours ago < 1326266413 433792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't tell whether they're joking or not... < 1326266435 297842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326266806 282771 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1326266820 463450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55:25: i don't know that (,) is an Arrow < 1326266825 734057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arr :: (a -> b) -> (a,b) < 1326266873 766535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(diff) (hist) . . Language list‎; 19:43 . . (+125) . . 149.255.39.18 (Talk) (Is there a way use some sort of third party forum moderation to cut through this problem? Then you could go on in whatever way you are comfortable, your forums could coninue to buzz and anyone that's) < 1326266881 440259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/She_Gives_Me_Money_When_Im_In_Need_Lyrics < 1326266894 319267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contents [hide] < 1326266894 477929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 She Gives Me Money When Im In Need Lyrics < 1326266894 634307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1 She Gives Me Money When Im In Need Lyrics < 1326266894 634491 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1.1 it u take my money when I am in need of Yes, her friend 'knows triflin' Oh really, a digger of gold 'way over time to dig me [Chorus:] (Give me the money.) Lil Wayne, Lil Wayne discography. < 1326266900 125902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1.1.1 External links < 1326266920 424118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59:52: * kallisti considers taking a break from this channel < 1326266925 258078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: sorry i'll tone down my cool < 1326266959 223948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Why don't you ever give me money when I'm in need? < 1326266959 540874 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, when the commission adds up the income side of agenda 2000. < 1326266976 683273 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Yeah, yeah, it's always one excuse or another. < 1326266976 999954 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, commissioner, i believe that this is just a quote from a turkish newspaper, not a single phrase in the regulation. < 1326267055 556346 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326267107 81263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fungot's way over time to dig you. < 1326267109 5827 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: first of all, ladies and gentlemen, the european council has since taken place. furthermore, structural and cohesion policies? we take it for granted that there would be no problem in accepting it. even fnord in montenegro does not put them at a disadvantage because many european union states. i met with professionals from the maritime situation of the southeast of the country of origin' principle, this is only a singl < 1326267328 891552 :roper!~rdrp@46.222.233.81 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326267375 532656 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you're now compelled to invent an esolang named She Gives Me Money When Im In Need Lyrics < 1326267403 256468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I haven't even made My Name Is Johny, What The F**K? yet :( < 1326269304 447785 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why are there so many typeclasses, wouldn't it make sense to have "one universal" type class? < 1326269329 750340 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you would appreciate the suggestion in your design of @. < 1326269345 567763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oleg did that, didn't he? < 1326269351 978162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was one single MPTC with a single member or something. < 1326269358 533059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That you could implement any typeclass with. < 1326269366 657329 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't imagine that Cody_ and Oleg were thinking of the same thing. < 1326269377 340833 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I vaguely remember something along those lines, I think. < 1326269420 23380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Cody_ is the name Oleg uses on IRC. < 1326269498 794563 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there a website that displays the type classes? Such as Eq, Num, Ord. < 1326269557 532258 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1326269560 582834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :learnyouatypeclass.com < 1326269594 931542 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even ddarius snapped at him a few days ago. < 1326269601 425909 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Cody_: I expect a five year old who's had access to a computer to be able to answer these questions. < 1326269634 396193 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember the "friendlist channel on Freenode" award that members of #haskell like to award #haskell? < 1326269689 362929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Has Cody_ read a Haskell tutorial? < 1326269706 596818 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn you a google for great good < 1326269706 754799 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so. < 1326269718 774155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Really? All the way through? < 1326269731 967912 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oh. < 1326269733 711130 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1326269742 859544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You should ask them! < 1326269752 219813 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I shouldn't! < 1326269764 832592 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a discussion in /msg about how to ask questions. < 1326269787 601778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hear esr wrote an essay on that! < 1326269822 176871 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When given an answer to that "why are there so many typeclasses": (Cody_) Axman6: I thought typeclasses were extra fluff. < 1326269838 221653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has a point. < 1326269844 422845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Fluff a where fluff :: a < 1326269873 882792 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Fluff f => ExtraFluff f where extraFluff :: a < 1326269876 573736 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Cody_ understands why we need typeclasses < 1326269878 990015 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enlightenment. < 1326269893 204834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326269904 397153 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would be ranting so hard right now < 1326269912 235263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 20:45:24 so GHCI is mainly a compiler and runtime environment, the prompt is intended for controlling those processes and isn't an interpreter, or at least not an interpreter than can handle all of Haskell < 1326269922 296434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This guy understands why you can't say "a = b" in GHCi. < 1326269997 526905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Misread as " i would be ranting if i weren't so hard right now". Don't know how that happened. < 1326270009 728965 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of asking questions, I've been finding myself typing out answers to questions in #haskell and realising "I'm putting N times as much effort into answering this question as you put into asking it. If you'd put M times as much effort into clarifying what you actually mean, I wouldn't have to do this. N > M. Why am I doing this?" < 1326270021 245741 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind that multiplication doesn't quite work that way. < 1326270071 698359 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, X_X < 1326270159 119234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION awards the friendliest channel on freenode award to #esoteric.
< 1326270166 708660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We couldn't have done it without fizzie's help. < 1326270174 433086 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION awards the friendliest person on Freenode award to shachaf.
< 1326270188 557737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "freenode". < 1326270219 907912 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll second shachaf's nomination < 1326270229 238403 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is friendlier than me because he hasn't quit #haskell yet < 1326270258 389238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Surely if that's the metric, Cale has to win it a few billion times over. < 1326270262 349442 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The first result on http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=NORWAYNORWAYNORWAY&q=freenode seems to disagree. < 1326270277 111014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sourceid=NORWAYNORWAYNORWAY < 1326270278 268337 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think I'll step down in favour of Cale. < 1326270280 92082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's spelled wrong in Norway. < 1326270293 234082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Anyway, "Freenode" isn't the title of that webpage. < 1326270297 635144 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?targetid=NORWAYNORWAYNORWAY&q=freenode < 1326270298 903479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what Google thinks the site is called. < 1326270301 321155 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know. < 1326270305 82780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1326270305 882756 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you calling Google wrong? < 1326270324 525104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : title="freenode, a service of Peer-Directed Projects Center" < 1326270324 685817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've reached freenode, a service of Peer-Directed Projects Center (PDPC). freenode provides discussion facilities for the Free and Open Source Software communities, for not-for-profit organizations and for related communities and organizations.What is fST or freenode Standard Time? It's our official time zone. Well, sort of. We're not entirely serious. :) freenode Standard Time is UTC. < 1326270332 825046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't find a single official reference with the capital F.
< 1326270338 335284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No; it's "You've reached freenode, ..." < 1326270338 652072 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wow, the people who run Freenode can't spell. < 1326270342 821420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :XChat calls it "FreeNode", which is just awful. < 1326270342 980142 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to bold it everywhere. < 1326270349 304324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's also greyish blue. < 1326270353 68607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, too. < 1326270357 578243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And serif. < 1326270385 751754 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spent my winter on the edge of a nervous breakdown while living in norway < 1326270388 671801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Speaking of asking questions, I've been finding myself typing out answers to questions in #haskell and realising "I'm putting N times as much effort into answering this question as you put into asking it. If you'd put M times as much effort into clarifying what you actually mean, I wouldn't have to do this. N > M. Why am I doing this?" < 1326270399 638966 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nhandler.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/it-is-freenode/ < 1326270405 572977 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, asking for clarification just isn't the #haskell way < 1326270411 874883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: This is why you need rep to motivate you! < 1326270413 776039 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should make a wild guess about the intent of the question asker < 1326270420 322440 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then write a treatise on that subject < 1326270437 993040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :howd o i make web with haskell in osx/linux/wine < 1326270441 160994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1326270445 439494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do web????? < 1326270450 11071 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i shot web < 1326270451 437878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;m vc < 1326270454 345066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :big startup moneys < 1326270456 41901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :web in haskel < 1326270462 355635 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Make sure to leave your treatise in IRC logs rather than writing it up on the wiki or something, though, right? < 1326270501 758486 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326270517 116793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys! I don't like #haskell! Let's talk about that! < 1326270521 738741 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a polite way of saying "we don't like your kind here"? < 1326270537 196366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "Your support contract has expired." < 1326270539 690677 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "your kind" is often a euphemism for "you". And "we" is a euphemism for "I". < 1326270546 461798 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't euphemize < 1326270552 718131 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :use "you" and "I", seriously < 1326270554 658596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please sign up for a paid support plan if you wish to continue your support contract." < 1326270560 853368 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm working on a blog post about what annoys me about #haskell < 1326270574 148045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That sounds really productive. < 1326270575 573976 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do actually like a lot of things about #haskell and wish I could be less annoyed so I could continue participating < 1326270597 847481 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the way for me to be less annoyed is mostly me changing not #haskell changing < 1326270607 502378 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sarcasm? < 1326270617 473993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Maybe! < 1326270624 460284 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more productive than bitching here where ~nobody will see < 1326270636 374209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't think writing blog posts about #haskell will change #haskell, but who knows.
< 1326270669 611797 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like at least one cite-able data point against "#haskell is wonderful and friendly and perfect" < 1326270679 671150 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really expect it to change < 1326270687 522087 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what else should i do < 1326270701 164666 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as much a reminder to me about the behaviors i should avoid < 1326270709 982590 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an attempt to change others < 1326270721 545057 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i complain about something publicly then i'm less likely to do it, for fear of being called a hypocrite < 1326270740 188784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I really, honestly, truly haven't seen anyone praise #haskell like that in years beyond saying "you should come to #haskell, we're really friendly!" on other media as an invitation. < 1326270762 581579 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have. < 1326270765 473443 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1326270768 9572 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm just out of date < 1326270790 184786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION might just block it out.
< 1326270803 752220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I've avoided #haskell for a while now. < 1326270809 800581 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you avoid? < 1326270849 461098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it sucks? < 1326270861 167730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, nobody ever answers my questions :P < 1326270864 190717 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can u be more specific < 1326270877 209911 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, I'd like to understand the problem < 1326270882 209459 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's because you never ask "how do i typeclass". < 1326270895 241225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can write about it, and so i can do better personally if/when I return < 1326270995 461173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, pretty much everything said in here: the amount of noise from trivial questions and the rubbish they spawn is immense, the channel in general is just way too high-volume a lot of the time, and people only answer low-hanging fruit, so problems that actually require decent knowledge of the APIs/thinking are ignored (double especially if they're related to code design)... so it just holds very little interest for me, as there's nothing in < 1326270995 619644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :teresting to answer, nothing interesting to talk about, and no way to get decent help for non-trivial problems. < 1326271029 64666 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the rubbish" being conflicting explanations, arguing about how to explain things, etc? < 1326271037 854614 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell-in-depth? < 1326271043 203402 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody ever talks there ever < 1326271059 773422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kmc said :P < 1326271064 721581 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still in that channel and I'd be glad if it got some good traffic < 1326271069 33044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure a single question was ever asked in #haskell-in-depth. < 1326271084 607459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes; also the jokes that inevitably follow e.g. anyone asking about monads are getting very old. < 1326271102 334733 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i'd be happy if it was 20% the size of #haskell instead of 5% < 1326271120 306088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There also seems to be a pattern of a single newbie repeatedly asking trivial questions and coming to dominate the channel for a period of time. < 1326271136 454014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually in an attempt to get working by trial-and-error. < 1326271141 443493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just falls under "noise", though. < 1326271147 981931 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the Standard Monad Joke Templates are definitely something I did for a while and then one day was like "this is fucking stupid" < 1326271164 651925 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc helped me see the light on that. < 1326271184 496821 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact after some of kmc's rants I just started disliking inside jokes a lot more. < 1326271186 157043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that dealing with the monopolizers entails being un-"friendly" < 1326271193 695333 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a theoretical level if nothing else. < 1326271199 317675 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, when I start a cult you can be my lieutenant < 1326271203 137645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still make them when they come up because, like, maybe #haskell will implode if it reaches critical mass of terrible. < 1326271229 269517 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326271229 428628 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott you're like all those neocons who were secret trotskyites < 1326271229 601937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1326271229 914019 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to ruin the USA so the workers would revolt against the capitalist system < 1326271230 73823 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inside jokes are fine if a) everybody present understands them and b) they're funny. < 1326271231 972987 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, yes, I get the point. < 1326271242 919290 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not if they're only funny by virtue of being inside. < 1326271247 19292 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately usually both a) and b) are violated. < 1326271259 367865 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inside jokes in #haskell are a way of establishing that you're In The Know about monads < 1326271262 403222 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That probably means they're not funny. < 1326271267 166760 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kinda like all the inside jokes stoners make about pot < 1326271278 147426 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has done a lot of that, too
< 1326271297 385949 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't done a lot of that.
< 1326271323 852594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two things #haskell could use to be much better would be (a) pointing newbies at a tutorial once they ask a few really basic/misguided questions rather than encouraging them further, (b) cutting down on the incessant injoking like that, and (c) what kmc said about having links to decent explanations of things on hand rather than impromptu IRC lectures. < 1326271368 11181 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for elaborating < 1326271370 601042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think writing a bunch of wiki pages is the most practical solution to (c) because nobody will do it; keeping links to high-quality existing material like blog posts and SO answers seems more practical. < 1326271374 328288 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three things < 1326271376 997044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2=3 and all that. < 1326271387 617746 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we're broadly in agreement < 1326271397 446791 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a couple of other gripes too < 1326271402 646889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's kinda like all the inside jokes stoners make about pot < 1326271402 966112 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if they're real or just something i'm imagining < 1326271404 868522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONADS ARE LIKE POT < 1326271411 508768 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"blog posts and my SO answers" < 1326271414 520743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has done it, he's the worst person, everybody go home.
< 1326271416 623338 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are like pot, once you get in you can't get out < 1326271417 455490 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326271419 835360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: EXACTLY. < 1326271422 691292 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a totally accurate statement about both right < 1326271423 997179 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the Haskell wikibook decent? < 1326271440 970866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's just another tutorial for the most part, I think. Its explanation of zippers is excellent, though. < 1326271448 655933 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: When I tried to read it it was pretty horrible. < 1326271449 449515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also I think it has one of the famously bad monad analogies. < 1326271458 343790 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was back in the "monads as spacesuits" era, though. < 1326271469 791139 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, "monads as nuclear waste containers" was its phrasing. < 1326271494 833582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Apfelmus wrote most of the Haskell wikibook zipper stuff. < 1326271551 186383 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my other complaints include a) the attitude that an idea is as good as working, tested code; b) the attitude that any feature Haskell lacks isn't important < 1326271554 557756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Something that would be useful is using lambdabot's @where to answer people more, I think; it would be fairly easily to populate it with stock answers+links to common basic questions. < 1326271564 203201 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326271570 878022 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a little disappointed that my haskellwiki FAQ hasn't caught on < 1326271576 369684 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's not that great < 1326271578 128740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that the one on the page [[FAQ]]? < 1326271584 982466 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people (besides shachaf) have no interest in linking it or improving it < 1326271586 882892 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326271588 943396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've linked people to it. < 1326271593 461300 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, cool < 1326271598 173293 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ < 1326271600 113696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen other non-shachaf people link to it for the existential antipattern stuff. < 1326271604 616468 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1326271608 583478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think those two complaints are more broad than IRC, anyway. < 1326271612 703390 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"non-shachaf people" < 1326271613 535804 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did a quick logsearch recently to see if my claims were holding < 1326271637 160205 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't want to be all petulant about "you're not using my wonderful wiki page" < 1326271642 956398 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't think anyone would actually agree with (a) if you stated it in that way, so I'm inclined to say it's an issue of communication. (b) is... eh, maybe there is some of it, but #haskell doesn't have to respond to people attacking the language. < 1326271645 617073 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if people extensively rewrote all the answers and linked to them, that would be cool too < 1326271657 310624 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's not about attacking the language < 1326271660 399476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Haskell community in general is way too quick to engage people who clearly don't give a shit about Haskell and are just trolling. < 1326271662 183031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh, I know. < 1326271676 331276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm just saying that it's easy to mistake legitimate complaints from just another troll attack on the language. < 1326271680 578990 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1326271694 399148 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you ask about regexes or Java interop, you'll get a bunch of noise about how only losers would want those things < 1326271697 528334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to just ignore people criticising Haskell because it's almost always the latter. < 1326271718 365225 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell experts criticize haskell too, and they should not be ignored < 1326271725 179722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1326271733 182585 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's less of that though < 1326271774 169831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries something.
< 1326271885 500661 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326271897 432079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shh. I'm doing science. < 1326271908 301345 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-14.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskellers criticising Haskell also tend to give meaningful criticism, not "it's not boring!" < 1326271965 275310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if this science is immoral.
< 1326271975 278608 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you doing human experimentation on #haskell < 1326271999 517035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How...dare you! The very idea! Yes. < 1326272017 665605 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can't fool me with your lower-case pronouns! < 1326272304 715670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, parser combinators were recommended at first, I got pointed at a (not all that useful for a beginner) wiki page with a comparison of Haskell regex libraries with a specific mild recommendation of regex-pcre, and only one person outright said I don't want to use regexps. < 1326272313 729569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be better, but it could be worse. < 1326272323 789927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java interop I would be less optimistic about getting good answers to. < 1326272331 23818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, it's very dependent on who is active at any given time... < 1326272417 777231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP dajfsa 2012-2012 < 1326272421 819052 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326272425 566868 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :u devious elliott < 1326272426 42195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We exploited you" < 1326272476 459969 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:00 < qqMuppetpp> dajfsa: if you're just doing it for learning purposes, go with Parsec < 1326272493 330748 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01 < quicksilver> parser combinators are better than regexps for just about everything except, of course, for the factor of programmer knowledge < 1326272512 410840 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01 < quicksilver> if you're doing something by a real world deadline then it may make sense to use the tool you're more familiar with even if it's the worse tool. < 1326272520 936898 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the haskell way is always the better way" < 1326272536 859800 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, the haskell way really is often the better way < 1326272541 966553 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people generalize from that < 1326272574 413190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think parser combinators _are_ usually better than regexps, or at least something like them is. < 1326272586 156324 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1326272606 496468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tricky because forcing everyone to adopt the Haskell Way wholesale all in one go doesn't work very well, but nobody wants to make a polished, robust library for doing something they don't think is the best way to accomplish things. < 1326272612 885296 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326272642 791365 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like often the Right Way to do something was just discovered in a paper published this year < 1326272656 644327 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only works with GHC HEAD and is not compatible with other libraries < 1326272659 892051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't think that a language community is obligated to make things easy for newbies, so he tends to prefer a larger learning curve if it makes the long-term experience better.
< 1326272700 570604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The Committee is not addressing lazy programmers. < 1326272702 194487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the regexp libraries seem OK, so dissuading people too heavily off them is silly. < 1326272706 234849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1326272716 729885 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the regexp libraries that use the awful typeclass interface are not OK < 1326272751 849159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Right, the Right Way to dor egexps was just discovered in a library published this year, it only works with base 4.4, and it's not compatible with other regexp libraries... < 1326272754 390200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do regexps < 1326272772 264571 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" anecdotally I would say I've seen more people bitten by the greedy nature of regexp when they didn't want it, than people specifically needing the greedy behaviour" < 1326272774 522573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The typeclass thing is horrible, but lots of things are horrible and they still work. < 1326272779 87822 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are the kind of anecdotes i really distrust < 1326272791 651116 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirmation bias < 1326272823 41777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Note how the regexp chat has extended about 5 minutes after the problem was solved and the person with it left... < 1326272828 430130 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326272841 608176 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a bad thing? < 1326272842 83569 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's right and proper for it to be a contentious issue < 1326272845 903370 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the status quo sucks < 1326272866 371289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: In the context of #haskell, yes, because it's obvious that nobody is going to change their opinions on regexp < 1326272871 721813 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1326272878 75824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there doesn't actually seem to be any substantial concrete disagreement at all < 1326272879 382240 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've changed various opinions based on things i've heard in #haskell < 1326272889 18977 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently i've changed shachaf's opinion about some things < 1326272910 391212 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we need more consensus about the solutions to various common problems < 1326272915 551367 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and discussion is important for that < 1326272927 882043 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a line somewhere between that and endless bickering where nobody is willing to change < 1326272929 210251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(=~) :: (RegexMaker Regex CompOption ExecOption source, RegexContext Regex source1 target) => source1 -> source -> target < 1326272931 785800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a good type. < 1326272934 42915 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1326272960 416362 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't < 1326272963 332713 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :class FunctionLike argument result where f :: argument -> result < 1326272964 283994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Match a where (=~) :: a < 1326272965 393952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :be simpler? < 1326272970 298478 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326272974 498250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even kidding. < 1326272984 10994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance (MatchResult r) => Match (String -> r) where ... < 1326273128 215733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you know unsafePerformIO isn't actually in Haskell 2010? < 1326273130 362369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was shocked. < 1326273131 312999 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1326273136 870713 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unsafeLocalState or whatever < 1326273151 571694 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :discussion in GHC mailing lists of implementing that with unsafeDupablePerformIO < 1326273154 505854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:27:12 is there any combinator library more similar to regexes in the range of semantics expressed? are PEG the way to go for this? < 1326273154 665345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:27:57 (by "similar" I meant "provides an usable superset") < 1326273160 362268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Mention regex-applicative already! < 1326273162 428710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't take it any more! < 1326273193 883640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: The nice thing is that it's deprecated by design. < 1326273204 114290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a note saying "Expect this to go away in the future!!!". < 1326273218 14266 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which? < 1326273222 992024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeLocalState. < 1326273226 651966 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1326273234 8775 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's unsafeLocalState? < 1326273238 102873 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will go away once functional programming dominates the world < 1326273243 753701 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we no longer need to interface to C libraries < 1326273246 332079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: unsafePerformIOButYou'reNotAllowedToUseMoreThanAFewFunctionsInIt < 1326273253 58813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, I think it means "replaced with something less ridiculous". < 1326273288 825321 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it in the Report. < 1326273296 818598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Look harder. < 1326273300 51348 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Foreign < 1326273301 960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in Foreign. < 1326273304 60435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhere. < 1326273316 91171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: MENTION REGEX-APPLICATIVE!!!!!!! < 1326273332 718890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how much longer MUFFIN_'s continued presence in #haskell will last.
< 1326273339 248393 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the Report goes past section 12. < 1326273357 50777 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a MUFFIN_ < 1326273393 422613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: A troll. < 1326273423 177981 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see anything in the past few days < 1326273446 657268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/12.01.11. I'm logstalking! < 1326273455 767573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is how I know shachaf STILL HASN'T MENTIONED REGEX-APPLICATIVE. < 1326273461 73349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries.
< 1326273489 537751 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1326273536 313123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You mock my pain. < 1326273550 528926 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you can implement unsafePerformIO with the FFI. < 1326273553 362029 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign export ccall foo :: Int -> IO Double < 1326273553 517935 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign import ccall "foo" bar :: Int -> Double < 1326273578 358712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1326273586 607369 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that legal? < 1326273589 987263 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works in my GHC. < 1326273595 278422 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what that means. < 1326273601 772532 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is the same as ghc < 1326273602 566541 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I mean, presumably it's exporting a symbol. < 1326273603 358860 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're fine < 1326273616 114834 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only smug beardos care about the spec < 1326273633 230449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell jokes are rapidly becoming monad tutorial jokes. < 1326273633 547352 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a beardo like a typo? < 1326273662 116256 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually understand the FFI. < 1326273678 706011 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the whole "you give it a type and it makes it work" thing just magic? < 1326273684 478705 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "magic" < 1326273691 571747 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose it's well-defined in the report. < 1326273695 60712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There's a table of Haskell<->C type conversions. < 1326273697 359495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the report. < 1326273718 569974 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, not magic. < 1326273740 537145 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just weird. < 1326273746 42312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, does anyone know the answer to this: Monad : ArrowApply :: ? : Arrow < 1326273766 867197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a typeclass of kind (* -> *) -> Constraint that is equivalent to Arrow in the same way that Monad is equivalent to ArrowApply. < 1326273778 540414 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably there is none < 1326273780 152604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably with a subclass that brings it to Monad. < 1326273787 694784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That seems bizarre. < 1326273793 678127 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty drunk though < 1326273797 164325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mean one in a library though. < 1326273805 358109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean, what is it? < 1326273837 70840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not Applicative, because the Category+Applicative+laws stuff is with the two-argument types. < 1326273982 478746 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION to sleep
< 1326274052 520983 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night shachaf < 1326274060 270056 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :godspeed you! black emperor < 1326274123 755043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is "night" not a complete word? < 1326274135 213709 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the complete word which goes there < 1326274375 342462 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326274375 535076 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.178 QUIT :Changing host < 1326274375 535227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326274764 160341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome ais523 < 1326274775 235966 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326275006 248512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? @ elliott welcome < 1326275009 562054 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@ elliott welcome? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1326275010 393321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1326275015 568864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ elliott ? welcome < 1326275018 932200 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1326275054 469736 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wendy's near my house closed :( < 1326275134 882548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a wendy's < 1326275148 168057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you mean by "near"? running distance? walking distance? < 1326275228 429132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of a restaurant chain, isn't it? Burgers or something. < 1326275231 445959 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've actually had esolang thoughts in 2012 < 1326275241 344458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :came up with a new esolang while failing to sleep last night, I think < 1326275257 557131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's vaguely inspired by both Anarchy and My Name Is Johny, What The F**K??? < 1326275383 253564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's an attempt to make the most powerful language I can in which all programs always halt < 1326275396 932883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and that's computable to determine whether a program is written in the language or not) < 1326275452 916867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : When a web hosting company is offering $6.95 hosting plan does this mean that you have to pay $6.95? < 1326275640 259185 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means they will host six dollars and ninety-five cents for you < 1326275642 638620 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :free of charge < 1326275660 982689 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tell me about My Name Is Johny, What The F**K < 1326275671 41857 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means they will tell you of their plan to host $6.95, free of charge < 1326275684 308291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1326275698 855503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and it's an attempt to make the most powerful language I can in which all programs always halt < 1326275703 622274 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's something elliott's working on, basically it's for writing reversible programs, but instead of allowing only reversible primitives, it instead requires functions to come with a proof of reversibility < 1326275708 961686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I somewhat doubt you'll beat the proof assistants. < 1326275711 854757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what? < 1326275717 153966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember Johny being that. < 1326275724 44448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, really? < 1326275728 288032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I parsed it so that if you pay $6.95, they'll graciously tell you about their hosting plans. < 1326275729 657042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although Johny has been about fifteen languages in search of a name. < 1326275749 33931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you had explicit destroy-data primitives that proved that the data being destroyed could still be reconstructed < 1326275762 357615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, you've only told us about one of the fifteen < 1326275781 113418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, there was also the 2D ones. < 1326275790 458325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you've only told /me/ about one of them < 1326275795 206129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326275799 732977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't remember the other ones. < 1326275804 150068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've only told me about one of them when I was paying attention? < 1326275811 882477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you forgot. < 1326276280 12792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I was going on a different principle altogether than the proof assistants < 1326276283 123968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, hmm < 1326276311 421665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, by the way, new BN dynasty, I'm running it < 1326276665 582752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, the proof assistants' advantage is that they've got significantly more power than any one given rule. < 1326276699 78791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what I mean was, I wasn't trying to compete with what they were doing < 1326276757 968937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just a responset o "make the most powerful language I can in which all programs always halt". < 1326276762 616419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*response to < 1326277370 312103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326278347 488855 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326278373 40912 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326278893 431996 :roper!~rdrp@46.222.233.81 NICK :atrapado < 1326278909 607109 :atrapado!~rdrp@46.222.233.81 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1326278940 821821 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326279348 556446 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-161.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326279360 379206 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-14.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1326279365 592473 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, kallisti update (potentially quite a while ago, but I just saw it now) < 1326279371 716184 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 5 hours ago I guess < 1326279425 186220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti keeps getting updated, never gets better < 1326279885 62362 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326279987 860192 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1326281586 45562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282223 243807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 438993 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 598855 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 759669 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 759743 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 759813 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 918714 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 918870 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 918945 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282223 919020 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282224 75695 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282224 387873 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282224 388013 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282224 857222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282225 164068 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282225 164216 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282225 566448 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 459558 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 641402 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 641705 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-009-068.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 642057 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 833053 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 833141 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282226 833173 :Systemzwang!miekko@infa.abo.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 189861 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 190009 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 365877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 365954 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-159-48.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 530113 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 701187 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 867204 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 867343 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282227 867417 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-161.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282228 37878 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282228 609065 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 13095 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 13237 :Zetro!~Zetro@zetro.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 225586 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 436244 :const!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 436386 :comex!~comex@ec2-50-19-141-233.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 659857 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 872813 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282229 872959 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 282986 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 283060 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 283200 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 471550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282230 471703 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1326282609 478805 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 478907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 478944 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-128-170.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 478978 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-161.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479011 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479045 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479110 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479179 :_Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-159-48.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479211 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-009-068.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479243 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479274 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479307 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479339 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479370 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479403 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479435 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479499 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479530 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479561 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479613 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479645 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479677 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479708 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479740 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479772 :shachaf!~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479804 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479836 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479867 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479899 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479931 :qfr!void@unaffiliated/yw JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479962 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 479992 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480024 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480056 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480089 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480120 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480151 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480182 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480213 :Systemzwang!miekko@infa.abo.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480244 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480276 :tswett!~Warrigal@unaffiliated/ihope JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480307 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480339 :const!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480370 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480402 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 480433 :comex!~comex@ec2-50-19-141-233.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282609 632964 :Zetro!~Zetro@zetro.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282629 441268 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 PART :#esoteric < 1326282630 449895 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282630 606086 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1326282631 128882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326282631 285139 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326282631 285357 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:44] Stop forgetting about left identity. < 1326282631 285482 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:45] no it doesn't; f can only possibly have the type x -> () < 1326282631 285581 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[11:45] so without _|_, there's only one possible value for f < 1326282658 188907 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or to put it another way, the left hand side is return a >>= f = return a = (), and the right hand side is f a = () because f has () as its return value < 1326282663 109316 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant return = const (), not return = (), above < 1326282667 559957 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1326283834 103414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1326283880 612701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 Stop forgetting about left identity. Oh, no. OK, fine, it's a monad. < 1326283881 15078 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1326284131 505934 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the best way to initialize an IntMap of MVar ()
< 1326284238 535175 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write code to write initialization for each individual number or something, but that seems stupid. I guess I could work out the smallest and largest possible value and do something with that < 1326284293 783147 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is there a way to exploit laziness to make it have a number of locks equivalent to the number of Ints (I mean, similarly to a Map Integer (MVar ()) and having that have an infinite number of locks) < 1326284333 999854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeInterleaveIO < 1326284343 885008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a full IntMap will be huge. < 1326284369 55476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least assuming IntMap is spline-strict, which I rather suspect it is. < 1326284525 355233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're mom never gets better. < 1326284584 771940 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1326284645 470361 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, I do for these purposes know how many and which locks I need, but if I didn't... < 1326284702 217472 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess for Integer, I could make a function instead of a physical map < 1326284714 226506 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I'd still need memoization < 1326284750 191192 :FireFly!firefly@unaffiliated/firefly PART #esoteric :"→" < 1326284842 333444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You sound even more confused as usual; I'm going to hazard a guess you're doing something in an awful manner. < 1326284845 271863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*confused than < 1326285155 147853 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm interleaving talking about what I know I want and hypothetical thoughts on what if I wanted something slightly different. < 1326285225 717449 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric : like going to a nissan dealership and discussing subaru? < 1326287615 367134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326287654 639547 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages? < 1326287654 834981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1326287712 802004 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I should make a graph of messages per day against Homestuck updates, but I suspect that it a) wouldn't actually be a terribly strong correlation and b) would have next to no available data. < 1326287779 500751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover is a true scientist. < 1326287792 72541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION graphs price of tea in China v. hoovers phantommed.
< 1326288212 966718 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I'm going to be locking a bunch of these things at once, I think I'll go with IntMap (TMVar ()) instead of IntMap (MVar ()) < 1326288276 38987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Err, I'm not sure you understand how locks work? < 1326288294 745305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting a bunch of locks in succession should not be any less safe than getting them all atomically, they're /locks/. < 1326288337 304501 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unless I accidentally get locks in different orders from what I want to < 1326288345 301232 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, in different orders in different places < 1326288354 194776 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that would happen, but still < 1326288368 634597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm rapidly becoming sure you don't understand how locks work < 1326288373 715655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work. < 1326288389 576928 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose one thread tries to lock A, then B. A second thread tries to lock B, then A < 1326288437 640814 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be able to control the order in which things are locked, so I should be able to avoid that, but still < 1326288455 232294 :coppro!~scshunt@denardo.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just put a lock around locking a and b < 1326288525 721298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If two locks are required for one thing and are taken together, shouldn't they be one lock? < 1326288573 981550 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in my case, one function might require locks 1, 2, 3, another locks 1, 4, 5, another locks 10, 11, 12, another locks 4, 6 < 1326288574 652103 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1326288610 903830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: This is the part where I return to hypothesis A, you're doing something badly. < 1326288640 342185 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be designing around a scenario in the AW SDK that may or may not actually be present < 1326288641 414875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Anyway, STM doesn't magically get rid of contention. < 1326288645 81615 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :This conversation seems deadlocked. < 1326288668 184233 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Welcome to #esoteric! < 1326288672 743625 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.posterous.com/timmmii/qjHzdDCcguJinwAktqmbksrwFBbuDGHnysCFpJxllodAnngiGlHbdxgJJzBv/media_httpcdn0knowyourmemecomi1569originalsnortingcokejpg1240906811_mBxaCmuIJBCpbwl.jpg.scaled1000.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1326288940&Signature=yQwe7dHO4MBkgwUpNnz0J5iHoIs%3D < 1326288679 509873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that link was quite big < 1326288695 4924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it's just a non-halting conversation that keeps on chugging. < 1326288700 354284 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-105.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326288703 497250 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-193-161.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326288714 820034 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a design flaw that I know I have to deal with, and this particular approach to dealing with it seems ideal to me, in that I don't have to determine which functions need what locks and then figure out which functions may be called together or not < 1326289293 116080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh man!! Zed Shaw has published an OPINION about the K&R book? THANKS PROGGIT, THERE'S NOTHING I LOVE MORE THAN HEARING ZED SHAW'S OPINIONS! NOTHING! < 1326289320 760792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Valgrind proves K&R are idiots. < 1326289338 572127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also apparently the book is called "K&R C"? < 1326289544 394788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the past all of us used to sit down about on the ground or around the desk and also play the board game with family or close friends. Right now online games are usually played by yourself or with assorted people all over the net. You are able to frequently become having fun with someone across the additional side on the planet. Nowadays we have absolutely no contact and even understand the other players that individuals are usually playing wit < 1326289544 550259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :h and can't see them either. < 1326289682 294956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you talking about that "Deconstructing K&R" thing? < 1326289733 58458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but it's actually 'Deconstructing "K&R C"' for some unfathomable reason. < 1326289740 647508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also why did you read it, I'm the only person stupid enough to subject myself to Zed Shaw. < 1326289774 572082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1326289774 769055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :83 people answered the first question, "When a command is misused, should it deliver its usage message to standard output or to standard error?". 62 (75%) agreed that the message should go to stderr; 11 (13%) said it should go to stdout. 10 indicated that they preferred a more complicated policy, of which 4 were essentially (or exactly) what M. Echeverri suggested; this brings the total in favor of stderr to 66 (80%). The others were: < 1326289774 769251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326289774 769355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.A very long response that suggested syslog. < 1326289776 532380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1326289778 532821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1326289783 736806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :syslog, the best place to put --help output. < 1326289789 810675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*3. A < 1326289802 565192 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did M. Echeverri suggest? < 1326289829 556975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"#3 seemed to be answering a different question than the one that was asked; syslog may make sense for general diagnostics, but to use it for usage messages seems peculiar." < 1326289834 45818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://blog.plover.com/Unix/usage.html < 1326289909 836777 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's been linked to from both ##c and (IIRC) comp.lang.c a couple of times already, in agitation. Anyway, I didn't "read" it; I glanced at the start of it, and didn't quite get the point. There's a strcpy() (well, a "copy()") function which does not work when called with non-null-terminated char*'s, and that's somehow a bad thing because it "only works in this delicate balance". < 1326289996 578008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You read ##c? < 1326290016 310767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just jump in with a fireproof suit, yell my question, breathe in, wait five minutes for an answer, and then jump out the window. < 1326290050 904105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I glance at the bottom of the scrollback every other hour or so, and sometimes paste the worst bits to a query. < 1326290051 846364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, man: "In the rest of this chapter though we will be modernizing the code in "K&R C" to fit the style you've been learning throughout this book. It will be more verbose, but it will be clearer and less error prone because of this slight increase in verbosity." < 1326290059 77287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the bestestworst idea for a programming book ever. < 1326290099 201574 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, currently there's "discussion" on why "double d = 10; printf("%d",d);" is not printing out "10". < 1326290120 799252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You forgot the quotes. < 1326290128 788127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf("\"%d\"", d); < 1326290129 501473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH < 1326290153 384313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done. < 1326290865 613977 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any reason not to use TMVars? < 1326291132 799115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teenage Mutant Variables? < 1326291334 888897 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish political cartoons had never moved beyond the "label everything so there's no chance you make any metaphors" stage. < 1326291374 915454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They have? < 1326291378 752666 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326291474 335321 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, now they make a caricature of any given political figure and then that consists of their entire satire from then on. < 1326291676 855379 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326292010 714969 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-227.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326292020 402284 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-158-105.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326292332 957347 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitForEvent :: (a -> Bool) -> TChan a -> STM a < 1326292355 243472 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This function is pretty much exactly what I was looking for for something < 1326292359 748957 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would have written it myself < 1326292368 466501 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this make it worth using a TChan instead of a Chan? < 1326292450 859090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why are you writing things to the Chan if you've going to discard them? < 1326292452 528679 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this function might be wrong. < 1326292459 66891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that TChans are very different from Chans. < 1326292483 951307 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my wrapper will be writing to a chan, users will be reading from < 1326292506 319942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you exposing a Chan? < 1326292517 352697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to let Your Users(tm) write to it, too? < 1326292534 92858 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but if they do, nothing should break < 1326292544 861688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you want to let them write to it? < 1326292551 123536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you just said you don't. < 1326292556 110710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why do you care about what breaks? < 1326292558 642337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not making any sense. < 1326292706 917247 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should just the IO for reading < 1326292715 339862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just the IO for reading. < 1326292738 794299 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the IO to close the thing < 1326292760 925477 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wondering if I should use ResourceT < 1326292811 744699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming goes better with complete sentences. < 1326292838 58751 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.Loops.iterateUntil does what I want, I think < 1326292844 45417 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming I just expose the IO to read < 1326292897 168440 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/monad-loops/latest/doc/html/src/Control-Monad-Loops.html#iterateUntil < 1326292900 896755 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks at the = go
< 1326292919 258557 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a label for the loop < 1326292989 134298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's not. < 1326292996 893789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go has two fewer parameters than iterateUntil. < 1326293093 34188 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that .. saves computation? < 1326293151 404521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What do you think parameters are passed on? (It's not the aether.) < 1326293193 696171 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like a tail call < 1326293200 248862 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either wy < 1326293201 903324 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way < 1326293222 137572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>) is in tail position there, not go, not that it's at all relevant. < 1326293465 76521 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=AW_AVATAR_SESSION see the two AW_CALLBACKs? That suggests to me that my IntMap of locks is a good idea < 1326293507 861276 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or, this case is a bit pathological < 1326293602 14659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides not to click.
< 1326293692 881425 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :_some_ callbacks have solutions to the main problem I'm trying to solve with these locks. Some do not. This case does, but in doing so, causes a complication that my IntMap of locks solves < 1326293703 669579 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i doubt the value of political satire etc < 1326293840 539112 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its good to keep people reminded that politicians are not what their marketed image suggests < 1326293897 678707 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but satire can also make politician popular and appear more friendly, more comicbook-like < 1326294104 195316 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-232.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326294123 982431 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-238-227.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326295195 488031 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326295484 813043 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :once :: IO (IO a, IO ()) -> IO a < 1326295517 189278 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, there's no particular reason that once's argument needs to be in IO < 1326295532 927870 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it does make it slightly easier to use over once =<< whatever < 1326295971 464032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what that is meant to do. < 1326296001 49296 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Performs the read once, then closes < 1326296080 213390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... once m = m >>= \(a,b) -> a <* b? < 1326296101 249917 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (<*) < 1326296102 189101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (f :: * -> *) a b. (Applicative f) => f a -> f b -> f a < 1326296120 57419 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably forget that when it's time to implement it, but it's easy enough to write anyway < 1326296140 506365 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'd probably end up using do notation < 1326296175 811678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you saying that's seriously what it is? < 1326296175 968039 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src (<*) < 1326296176 522767 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(<*) = liftA2 const < 1326296186 679386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if it is, that type is the most stupid possible way to express it. < 1326296205 437160 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1326296257 241145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm what? < 1326296268 412355 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it the most stupid possible way to express it? < 1326296284 664986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because your type looks like < 1326296289 209303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once :: IO (IO a, IO ()) -> IO a < 1326296290 173167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1326296292 981878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once :: (Applicative f) => f a -> f b -> f a < 1326296299 861878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also the word "once" is irrelevant. < 1326296321 323877 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's relevent to what I imagine typical usage would be in applications using my wrapper < 1326296382 24271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If something of that type and semantics is common, your wrapper suck. < 1326296383 176373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :s. < 1326296521 470388 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326297209 757092 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1326297453 347704 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder, are there imacs with touch screens ? < 1326297464 719375 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could use an older one, as a sort of youtube based ipod < 1326297467 577733 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda thing. < 1326297484 596340 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd totally google but i'm web-disabled for the next hour. < 1326297494 278181 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escitalopram < 1326297496 74873 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is also the wrong channel. < 1326297505 157603 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi Phantom_Hoover. < 1326297507 791081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, a drug which is literally the mirror image of another drug by the same company. < 1326297516 514124 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, fuck off. < 1326297527 194799 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fuck ON! < 1326297578 542675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow, a drug which is literally the mirror image of another drug by the same company. < 1326297584 65560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: What a scummy cost-cutting tactic! < 1326297594 60011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I was joking. < 1326297603 598750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently people are actually saying that so maybe it's actually true. < 1326297640 612298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon they're going to start selling versions with green nitrogen blobs instead of those blue ones seen there. < 1326297642 264140 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the main bit is where they denied that it was just clinging to patents despite it being literally identical in structure. < 1326297693 799657 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no, you fool! < 1326297702 65667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, there's only a limited number of parts they can twiddle! < 1326297711 144694 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, green blobs are chlorine! < 1326297711 817868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE SOME EMPATHY. < 1326297744 307331 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Stick some paint on it, any blob can be anything. < 1326297773 693403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Ingredients: Blue paint (98%), ..." < 1326297878 988741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, we can turn lead into gold by painting it yellow! < 1326297922 733916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't know? < 1326297954 258009 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we're talking about sophisticated atomic painting here, not the shoddy work that fools you English idiots. < 1326297970 519914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the paintbrushes would have to be really, really small. < 1326298134 834237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dude, we use atomic paintbrushes in England. < 1326298164 22777 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, those are molecular paintbrushes. < 1326298311 149798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Um have you ever even SEEN England? < 1326298325 698354 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1326298372 731531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, you've seen the fake one we show to keep Scots complacent. < 1326298462 788444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ha ha ha, you actually think we were fooled by that? < 1326298605 506784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: so did they manage to take some drug they had a patent to, release an identical drug under another name, and get a patent for the new drug? < 1326298624 61490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: For sufficiently wrong definitions of "identical". < 1326298674 40545 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they could only get away with that then the third world would never see any medicine ever < 1326298675 966778 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is identical. < 1326298715 751173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the synthesis is the same, for one thing, and there's no reliable evidence that it worked better. < 1326298731 172903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i see the hole in my logic < 1326298745 311736 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but they can't retain their old patent in this way though right? < 1326298764 144808 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, sure they can, but patents expire. < 1326298769 854128 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new patent surely doesn't empower them to keep an old patent < 1326298776 710323 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes? < 1326298784 494150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as the patent office are concerned, it's a new drug. < 1326298797 813298 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1326298799 846656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just happens to have exactly the same structure, but mirrored. < 1326298806 518659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhmm < 1326298825 598029 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if people just make the drugs on the basis of the old drug then its ok right? < 1326298838 808266 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1326298857 500172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow, it's even better than that. < 1326298875 402966 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing logic with me.. so since im not that smart this may hurt < 1326298895 203485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i would invest 5 hours to express what i am trying to express if necessary < 1326298900 296802 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Citalopram is actually half-and-half escitalopram and its mirror; it's not a new drug at all. < 1326298914 905875 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so.. an analogy is necessary here < 1326299009 258686 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a company has a patent to some drug A, and then they create a new patent to some identical drug B. to me the question is does this prevent people copying drug A < 1326299015 656414 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a patent < 1326299042 44870 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^when the patent for drug A expires < 1326299063 922987 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though A and B are (arguably) identical < 1326299117 559726 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I do want an operation other than readChan: tryGetChan. Although I don't think I saw such a function :( < 1326299144 348652 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i should define copying < 1326299170 500226 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying = selling < 1326299240 886618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, it is identical. < 1326299241 157163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm pretty sure the synthesis is the same, for one thing, and there's no reliable evidence that it worked better. < 1326299254 431543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I reserve the word "identical" for things that don't have two separate images distinguishing them. < 1326299282 855912 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see what the problem is so long as the original is in the public domain < 1326299286 426200 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1326299305 710226 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i do.. maybe i do < 1326299315 721095 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1326299321 861273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you want tryGetChan, you're doing something wrong. < 1326299344 312902 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all normal for the system < 1326299366 623305 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh? < 1326299393 163396 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the problem is that they continue to refer to patents as patents < 1326299398 174877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think I need a policy of not responding to lines that have no possible response, like "huh?". < 1326299403 491019 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to look into the etymology < 1326299409 832517 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it wrong to want tryGetChan? < 1326299454 426593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What possible purpose could you have for it? The only thing I can think of is doing things that should be done with threads. < 1326299464 723304 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The meaning "copyright an invention" is first recorded 1822, from earlier meaning "obtain exclusive right or monopoly" (1789), a privilege granted by the Crown via letters patent. < 1326299484 209277 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing if something has occured yet, and if not, doing something else < 1326299487 9236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either you're going to be polling it like crazy, which is bad, or you're going to know when an item has come in on the Chan, in which case you might as well just read it because you know it won't block. < 1326299530 180023 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a problem with my main idea of turning an event-based system into something based on chans < 1326299537 304726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sounds like a Do It Yourself Race Condition In Ten Steps opportunity. < 1326299546 868895 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright: "the right to make or sell copies," 1735, from copy + right. < 1326299572 31540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That idea is perfectly sound; your implementation sounds completely broken. < 1326299608 678441 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it's more me trying to figure out how users will use this < 1326299631 21192 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Than implementation-level things. Although I still haven't figured out exactly what sort of values will be going along the chans < 1326299733 875256 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the SDK itself, users set event handlers, and in their handlers, use functions like aw_int() to grab values out of something like global state < 1326299745 312707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, your implementation itself sounds broken too. < 1326299756 332287 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so has everyone switched over to C++11 yet? < 1326299774 308746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking each of my event chans passes along its own type of things, but then what if I want to combine two events and have a chan that reads from either < 1326299808 148892 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a structure representing the entire possible state, and converting these smaller things to that < 1326299818 590281 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :use an Either < 1326299818 746595 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each of the fields in the larger things being a Maybe < 1326299853 272806 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, when a user wants a lot of event data pouring into one chan, that could get unwieldy < 1326299874 78485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The user the user the user the user. < 1326299880 5103 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know the problem. I just saw "combine two events and have a chan that reads from either" and thought Either. < 1326299898 333494 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems natural < 1326299912 281822 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, fine, imagine I said two or more < 1326299921 12837 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1326299944 604874 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either A (Either B (Either C D) ) < 1326299947 254410 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be good < 1326299949 16091 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326299992 235176 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use tuples or something... < 1326300002 995509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe a, Maybe b, Maybe c) loooooool < 1326300014 884661 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell needs "Either tuples" < 1326300038 989319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: a :+: b :+: c < 1326300044 596664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, fine, I'll take the bait: < 1326300047 627776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : With the SDK itself, users set event handlers, and in their handlers, use functions like aw_int() to grab values out of something like global state < 1326300052 365446 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (:+:) < 1326300053 594521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor `:+:' < 1326300056 189341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are these actual global state, or the equivalent of event params? < 1326300058 695774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (:+:) < 1326300059 442801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No results found < 1326300063 844981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ITT: :t is not :k < 1326300085 696334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITT: elliott anticipates I will magically distinguish type names from data constructors given no context < 1326300093 786642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Either A (Either B (Either C D) ) < 1326300096 729829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Haskell needs "Either tuples" < 1326300103 846913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was a :+: b :+: c as a value, it would not be Either. < 1326300120 217747 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, indeed. < 1326300139 97448 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the value-level syntax will be clunky with the Lefts and Rights < 1326300141 558869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that (:+:) is in any standard place either, but it's easy to define. < 1326300157 481880 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326300158 146982 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :here comes "define your own interface" < 1326300163 459483 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you mean by the equivalent of event params? < 1326300167 808231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: You can fix that with a horrible typeclass hack. < 1326300176 596101 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1326300180 376344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know; I don't know anything about AW. < 1326300186 294491 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the circumstances, I think. Some are the equiv of event params, some are global state < 1326300191 731793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Event params would be like "position mouse was clicked on" in a mouse click event. < 1326300195 477798 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so Either + typeclass hacks you'll be good < 1326300198 434666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global state would be "current mouse position". < 1326300206 65609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Event param would be "user invoking this request". < 1326300212 304090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global state would be "list of online users". < 1326300224 32266 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, some are one, some are the other < 1326300237 494854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Do you know the list of relevant params for each given event? < 1326300250 309728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Params-as-global-state, that is. < 1326300256 563229 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can copy-paste from the wiki for that < 1326300268 429513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't see where on earth a bunch of Chans comes in. < 1326300298 863619 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of event handlers, sending the data from each event to the user < 1326300299 189366 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo Chan Combinator Library SCCL < 1326300345 547954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's wrong with event handlers? < 1326300349 470349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have < 1326300358 530699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :installEventHandler :: (Event e) => (e -> IO ()) -> IO () < 1326300361 529945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily write < 1326300365 373241 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitForEvent :: (Event e) => IO e < 1326300366 451502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of it. < 1326300368 61090 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually channel combinators that produce channels of tuples would be Arrow < 1326300390 910239 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there something like "Arrow for Either"? < 1326300392 17714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically < 1326300395 939635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: ArrowChoice < 1326300405 886384 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but then if I repeatly waitForEvent, I lose events < 1326300407 805805 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1326300408 787552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitForEvent = do { v <- newEmptyMVar; installEventHandler (putMVar v); takeMVar v } < 1326300424 584864 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to be able to uninstall event handlers too < 1326300424 741818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is no possible way you can lose events with ^ if installEventHandler does what it's supposed to. < 1326300431 920313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :installEventHandler :: (Event e) => (e -> IO ()) -> IO (IO ()) < 1326300436 576888 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Returned IO action deregisters events. < 1326300440 462423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the AddHandler type of reactive-banana. < 1326300452 225437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, deregisters the installed handler. < 1326300452 630713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So: < 1326300466 670036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :waitForEvent = do { v <- newEmptyMVar; uninstall <- installEventHandler (putMVar v); r <- takeMVar v; uninstall; return r } < 1326300478 533161 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The uninstall isn't needed there; the event handler will just block in future. < 1326300480 32392 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone in #haskell pushed the idea of not preferring event handling on me < 1326300493 362346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, if you're interpreting "install" as "replace", then it can drop events. < 1326300497 400151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully you're not doing that. < 1326300531 518208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I certainly argued that a full blocking interface is often preferable, but you can't do that automatically. < 1326300537 68171 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SDK does, but I'm planning on abstracting over that < 1326300541 37073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to build it manually based on domain-specific knowledge. < 1326300616 841173 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abstracting over that": newEventHandler = newMVar Map.empty; addHandler v h = modifyMVar_ v $ \m -> do { u <- newUnique; return $ Map.insert u h m }; runHandlers v = readMVar v >>= mapM_ ($v) . Map.toList < 1326300662 765468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think Arrow would be a good choice for some signal processing algorithms < 1326300680 728782 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, please stop writing code for me, it does bother me < 1326300694 447751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: "Arrow would be a good choice" --people who haven't yet tried to apply arrows to a problem < 1326300697 776468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as some are naturally expressed as dataflow diagrams, which Arrow represents pretty well. < 1326300702 829892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't. < 1326300706 211490 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sorry, in the future I'll make sure to only write code for things you've never thought about. < 1326300711 771607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I might need a queriable database. < 1326300771 839114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if anyone can tell, but I'm super grouchy today!! < 1326300786 672829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Arrow would be better if you could use actual flow diagrams with it, really. < 1326300797 917565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is you have the choice between unreadable combinator code and ugly imperative proc notation. < 1326300802 590442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the tuples suck big-time. < 1326300815 868519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrowised FRP was in vogue for a while but it's not that popular any more for exactly these reasons. < 1326300832 515504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, OK, it is fairly used, because the arrowised FRP implementations are some of the best, but the intelligentsia don't like it. < 1326300844 200065 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B1316A0.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326300955 725472 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326301054 291752 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think if you had some decent syntax for it, it wouldn't so cumbersome < 1326301065 192606 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example a hetereogenous list syntax that's equivalent to linked tuples. < 1326301081 625847 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if I use your waitForEvents twice in a row, and in between those usages, an event happens while I don't have a registered event handler, the code will never see it. < 1326301103 34167 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant by dropping events < 1326301109 692752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Are you saying, "unhandled events are not handled"? < 1326301115 112121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is true. < 1326301142 784255 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but a graphical tool to generate arrow code would be interesting < 1326301144 322751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always maintain a backlog of events for those with no handlers. < 1326301171 697807 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what, with hidden event handlers? < 1326301175 322812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Arrows really aren't nice to use, even if you did have heterogeneous list stuff (which you can give list-style syntax, btw). < 1326301181 287829 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then the bot will be constantly sent information that it might not need. < 1326301187 56259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What? < 1326301198 693337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Besides, being unable to use currying is gross. < 1326301205 265787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrows just aren't very Haskelly. < 1326301375 947316 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you seen http://www.grame.fr/Ressources/pub/faust-chapter.pdf < 1326301384 876111 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would appear arrows are very Fausty. < 1326301395 195960 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess I could make the installEventHandler more primitive than something Chan-based < 1326301434 768549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how you would represent the _ syntax in Faust, which basically stands for "an input" < 1326301442 646774 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess with regular function arguments... < 1326301485 771079 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, with the type used by reactive-banana, how would an event handler uninstall itself? I guess you could make a combinator that allows for that, but < 1326301565 583766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: How can I go from A to C? I mean, I can go from A to B, and from B to C, but surely it would be better to glue A directly to C. For the user! < 1326301614 449374 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see what < 1326301620 568019 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so terrible about the Chan thing < 1326301646 930191 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess if adding a handler is a common case, it might be a bit inefficient < 1326301669 320251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: _ is id. < 1326301685 291170 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1326301731 283662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Lame how that Faust thing explicitly exposes the sample-rate by giving a one-sample delay. < 1326301752 893553 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do a delay with continuous functions? < 1326301753 920178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But continuous time for signal processing seems to be an innovation restricted to FRP circles... < 1326301757 992011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from my incredibly biased sample set) < 1326301762 741832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: A delay of what? < 1326301766 806819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no smallest real number. < 1326301777 973513 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to perform delay in discrete signals... right? < 1326301835 725112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: This is like how, in real life, since time is continuous, you can't put something off for 5 minutes. < 1326301848 317721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to jump into a computer and become discrete and wait 5 units of time. < 1326301849 214660 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1326301860 309958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore your deduction makes complete sense. < 1326301907 695814 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't understand. what's wrong with delay f d t = f (t - d t) < 1326301954 113165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very strange definition. < 1326301965 730759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay t a b = \s -> if s < t then a s else b s < 1326301968 155897 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes more sense. < 1326301990 687954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the answer is nothing; but that's not a one-sample delay, which is what I was complaining about. < 1326301995 493063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's independent of sample-rate. < 1326302000 328838 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t mfix < 1326302001 312248 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *). (MonadFix m) => (a -> m a) -> m a < 1326302001 895681 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I thought you were complaining about the delay operator. < 1326302007 65447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that. < 1326302031 617574 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't really understand what your function is supposed to do. < 1326302057 98043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: delay 0.1s (pure 42) b is 42 for 0.1s and b thereafter < 1326302068 316880 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay f d produces the signal f but delayed by the function d. < 1326302084 386763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, thank you, I'm not an idiot. < 1326302093 898058 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is your delay a... delay? < 1326302096 448893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with that definition is that you can define pathological ds. < 1326302108 201096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to keep the entire history of f around to make that thing work, which is a time leak. < 1326302152 313190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: oh, I fucked it up < 1326302186 103612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, that definition is still unreasonable, but I was complaining about the one-sample delays which -- actually I'm starting to get the feeling you skipped the first 5 pages of this paper. < 1326302195 981070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1326302212 979733 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much words, not enough programs. < 1326302213 304740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION terminates this discussion.
< 1326302226 591751 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i can help < 1326302232 389781 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I read it ages ago, if that counts! < 1326302234 884221 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a random topic destroyer < 1326302244 929401 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok a question here.. is it possible to compute from a set of genes an image of what a lifeform will become. i guess environment is a factor. ((render genes) environment) < 1326302286 36813 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is a case of "of course, if you had infinite computing power" < 1326302295 170832 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you could force the delay to be a constant value in order to make it more efficient < 1326302320 946102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Time leaks aren't just about "efficiency". < 1326302321 483517 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the extent to which the rendering is dependant upon environmental factors could be very signifigant < 1326302330 535866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A time leak means your program isn't properly streaming/real time. < 1326302336 881399 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know most delayed signals are delayed by a constant offset. < 1326302341 27856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, of course, crucial for signal processing. < 1326302360 158769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You love biology, right? Then you'll love itidus21's question! < 1326302387 173185 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but would a constant offset fix this? < 1326302389 205126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* elliott terminates this discussion." i should have realized this was a bluff < 1326302391 13489 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1326302398 102841 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1326302437 331863 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i really started to think about this question in the past in relation to video game characters < 1326302458 770040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm.. but only now am i making the full connection < 1326302465 304754 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :video game characters with dna < 1326302467 286349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: In that one, specific case, yes. (It has the rather serious problem that for the first `d`, the value is undefined.) < 1326302484 224691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, genes cannot be used to reliably determine the properties of a final organism; indeed, it is probably impossible to reconstruct a single cell from them. < 1326302492 703523 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes I thought about that. < 1326302497 108975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeans on the other hand... < 1326302500 161240 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and yet we read so much into them :P < 1326302513 633206 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Which is what my definition was trying to get at: you need a signal to use for the first d. < 1326302517 355992 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :T-30 seconds 'til topic change | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326302520 736335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can still have a consistent influence. < 1326302532 451953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay d f g = \t -> if d < t then f t else g (t-d) < 1326302534 285123 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i wonder if that is because genes don't contain life itself < 1326302537 695273 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah < 1326302546 434258 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is impossible to uhh.. derive life directly from information < 1326302553 881895 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, no, it's because the cell contains stuff which isn't directly coded for. < 1326302557 296889 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wait are you sure it's undefined? is negative time not allowed? :P < 1326302569 370531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Generally the signals you use with DSP start at a given time. < 1326302580 290461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so don't, in fact, stretch back to the beginning of time. < 1326302594 891834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway, it's basically the same issues as you get with dynamic event/behaviour switching that have been a large focus of FRP research for ages. < 1326302602 866261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... if they're continuous functions they would in most cases... < 1326302603 562361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the chances of the authors of this having heard of any of it is ~0. < 1326302610 92794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Um, no? < 1326302619 675130 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hm... but is there an order to that uncoded stuff? < 1326302621 946486 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sin (-1) < 1326302623 179393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -0.8414709848078965 < 1326302626 31036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326302627 647357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're an idiot. < 1326302628 617952 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :is perfectly valid, for example. < 1326302637 763811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, "continuous" doesn't mean "with continuous domain". < 1326302661 377885 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an example of a function that breaks on a negative time value? < 1326302668 229898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: an input signal?!?! < 1326302675 842041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, what DSPs are used for? < 1326302676 246884 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, sure, it's the (highly ordered) cell machinery. < 1326302700 149857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to specify an infinite signal history that stretches back to the beginning of time when using a DSP, unless I'm sorely out of date with current audio technology. < 1326302712 124126 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what if i was to have a model with both cell machinery and the genetics of some lifeform < 1326302729 119552 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it would be better to just write another combinator that provides a value for negative times or something. < 1326302737 28409 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: input signals would automatically have it applies to them. < 1326302740 517205 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is a good value... < 1326302743 608667 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :for integers. < 1326302764 514920 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a curious thing here for me is whether cell machinery varies from species to species < 1326302775 938211 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so basically what you wrote but split up into two functions < 1326302776 489919 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Duh'. < 1326302778 509931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Or you could not be an idiot, and either incorporate a notion of signal start time or use combinators like my proposed delay. < 1326302781 245825 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it does then it may be as unique as genetics < 1326302809 790688 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't se a difference what I said and what you said aside from I proposed that your delay function should be two different functions < 1326302822 649114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you may want that behavior elsewhere. < 1326302825 559857 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a delay. < 1326302831 514465 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which suggests that the emphasis on genetics as a buzz word these days is slightly misleading < 1326302865 342994 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can lead to a question of, am i human because of my genetics or my cell machinery < 1326302870 460414 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, you may want to not use a default value for signals that /do/ go back to the beginning of time. < 1326302872 949074 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Because your model makes no damn sense, because your signals are necessarily partial functions (due to having a source signal not defined on negative inputs that you can transform with a default value) yet you somehow think you need more machinery to solve it beyond the delay-without-initial-signal definition already gaining meaning then (disregarding the fact that just making it a partial function is a dumb idea for many reasons) < 1326302878 176671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, since genetics are what are used to build that machinery, it's not a hugely meaningful distinction. < 1326302882 617485 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh < 1326302905 254017 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that fitting that machinery together /from the genes alone/, without a preëxisting copy of it, is probably impossible. < 1326302918 488811 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is that because life feeds on life? < 1326302937 343377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote floored me < 1326302940 675438 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :169) "Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo." alise: I I was going to say something then your last line floored me < 1326302961 342508 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's because life, by and large, tends to be produced by other life. < 1326302961 650247 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry phantom.. all my questions tend towards antagonism in their wording < 1326302976 222114 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I still think it would be a good idea to have both < 1326302982 153085 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my delay is not partial unless its input is partial. < 1326302995 468550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (a) You have no idea what you're talking about. (b) See (a). < 1326303016 532195 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1326303026 373828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never have a strand of DNA forming a cell in isolation, from a bootstrap protein coder and some amino acids; you have a cell using its DNA to expand and replicate its existing structures. < 1326303032 13687 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott "good at conversation" hird < 1326303044 23052 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go conjure money from thin air brb < 1326303049 271612 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Have stuff I need to do. Be back whenever. < 1326303201 804088 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of my view is that even if we could engineer life, i don't think we should < 1326303202 481140 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like creating sentient beings which are not created from other sentient beings < 1326303203 163312 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sentient? ahh tough word ... just life < 1326303216 390083 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh. homework: prove that delay sin is a partial function. I eagerly await your conclusion. < 1326303232 68397 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if we could take something which is not life.. and turn it into life through engineering techniques.. we should not do it < 1326303254 15005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Sorry, I only engage idiots when I'm feeling stupid. < 1326303257 553439 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326303269 607423 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and yet I am not wrong? < 1326303277 756892 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what about when something which was not life turned into life of its own accord? < 1326303308 422178 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then thats fine with me :D < 1326303333 957813 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: by your definition map is a partial function because you can pass it a partial function. < 1326303359 517830 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore: ban use of map < 1326303368 262673 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the sex model of reproduction. sleep together night after night with lots of pleasure, and then one day the woman starts missing her period < 1326303388 856061 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its pretty good < 1326303441 327556 :Nisstyre!~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326303469 702823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nisstyre is fortunate to have been spared that. < 1326303595 507034 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent that there is something called mathematics which is thought about by some and not by others, and that some identify with it, defend it, build it up, ... there is also misconceptions woven into it, mistakes, errors.. all of this is inherent simply because it was done by humans :P < 1326303627 236941 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the bits we've computationally verified. < 1326303631 761907 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's all proven by naive set theory. < 1326303636 360333 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the views of the mathematician tend to be shaped by the mathematics < 1326303653 93792 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the award for most vacuous statement goes to... < 1326303674 863735 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but computers are built by people too! < 1326303716 509064 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could more efficiently say the right things without mixing in the wrong things but < 1326303717 891710 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1326303745 400622 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an inevitable result of specialization that everyone ends up developing thought patterns specialized for some lifestyle < 1326303763 864608 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: if you speak in this channel long enough people will force you to be exact. < 1326303775 525440 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're well on your way! < 1326303778 793402 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and different people looking at the same un-understandable thing, will inevitably see different thing < 1326303817 367696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Except for the bits we've computationally verified. < 1326303828 790608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But but but, humans made the computer proofsystems too!!!! < 1326303830 884027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*proof systems < 1326303838 314958 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I know that's what I was saying! < 1326303839 820299 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1326303839 977558 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only regret is if you get lazy in your choice of lifestyle < 1326303841 906078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOE BE US, UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OF COGNITIVE BIASES < 1326303860 422212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: You say "the only regret" because it's "my only regret", right? < 1326303876 477480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im making a prediction < 1326303908 276758 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like how specifying a negative number in our delay functions produces a future value. < 1326303937 683256 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok yes :P < 1326303948 737163 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and also breaks it for finite signals < 1326303957 192150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I object to this use of the term "our"; only I've presented a working delay function. < 1326303970 26125 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the feeling of knowing that my mind tricked me for another day into doing nothing < 1326303979 146903 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever mind that it is < 1326303983 507919 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours is a conditional on top of my delay function, to assist dirty partial functions. < 1326303984 662520 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you, mind! < 1326303988 809667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always tricking my brain! < 1326304006 415850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Please shut up. < 1326304015 358729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not very nice. < 1326304023 158991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1326304026 402673 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1326304051 380415 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you're just going to be a jerk without explaining yourself? it's a wonder you have any friends. < 1326304058 898934 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what it takes to snap out of it.. whether i need to lose everything i've got before i start to take life seriously < 1326304064 833993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do; they're considerably less annoying. < 1326304083 397251 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have friends?!?!? < 1326304083 553438 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1326304089 835281 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326304220 872881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: On occasion! < 1326304363 895878 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway in kallisti Signal Processing your function is just delay d f g = if' (d < t) f (pureDelay (const d) g) < 1326304437 958943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I really don't care. < 1326304529 297529 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1326304557 118773 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :delay d f g = if' (d <) f (pureDelay (const d) g) < 1326304693 188288 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately booleans are not overloadable. :( < 1326304702 442477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not what if' does. < 1326304706 69233 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1326304708 18912 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not if' if' < 1326304710 758623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different if' < 1326304757 760121 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :to conditionally switch between signals based on a control signal < 1326304821 807406 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1326304922 51515 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-19.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326304946 223930 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-222-232.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1326305100 296294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually instead of < I'd want something like... < 1326305188 732185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The box has a statistics page with byte counters that seem to be saturating 32-bit, because the numbers are stuck at 2147483647. --" <-- actually now some of them have wrapped back down, so maybe it's signed 32-bit with wraparound, and shows 2^31-1 for <0. < 1326305201 678292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :class SigOrd s where { lt :: s a -> s a -> s Bool; gt :: ... } -- probably doesn't need to be a typeclass < 1326305284 802383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think you might be exceeding the design limits. < 1326305303 74267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two gigabytes is not really much to download. < 1326305491 938405 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-116.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326305494 161428 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-148-19.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326305541 454878 :Gregor!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S LIKE THREE EPISODES OF MY LITTLE PONY < 1326305587 196509 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Package_versioning_policy do people actually follow this? < 1326305589 859660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Two gigabytes is not really much to download. THAT'S LIKE THREE EPISODES OF MY LITTLE PONY < 1326305591 992357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Yes. < 1326305593 67446 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :797) Two gigabytes is not really much to download. THAT'S LIKE THREE EPISODES OF MY LITTLE PONY < 1326305602 30070 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do people actually not follow this as well? < 1326305638 532541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most packages follow the PVP. < 1326305654 604984 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. everything is as it should be. < 1326305714 189468 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you actively provide import lists for all of your import statements to avoid the situation where a package update results in new name clashes? < 1326305737 329312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326305743 6759 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't either. :P < 1326305745 799675 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1326305781 928291 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :granted, there are other good reasons to do that, but most of the time I don't really see a need to. < 1326305806 189201 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's a laziness threshold where, if I'm only using a small number of functions, I'll provide an import list for documentation. < 1326305816 116485 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-153.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326305835 703560 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-116.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326306222 635678 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1326306232 164697 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if fourier transform only worked with positive frequencies < 1326306243 105172 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it only be able to accurately preserve periodic functions? < 1326306313 625320 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326306320 105113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are there combinations of phases that produce non-periodic results? < 1326306456 98784 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually... < 1326306474 958626 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative frequencies are equivalent to being "perfectly" out of phase < 1326306561 502792 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... I guess fourier transform would only preserve periodic functions if it only represented natural coefficients (representing positive frequencies) . < 1326306563 505076 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what you mean with "only work with positive frequencies". I mean, if you only specify (complex-valued) F(x) for x >= 0, then... I guess it defines a real-valued function f(x) for all (real) x. Since if you define F(-x) = conj(F(x)) and run that through the usual inverse transform you'll get a purely real f(x). < 1326306572 996846 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's that funny quote about causation causing correlation causing the correlation implies causation fallacy? < 1326306609 585375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "causation causing correlation causing the correlation implies causation fallacy" -olsner < 1326306618 343829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you flip it so that F(-x) = -conj(F(x)) you'll get a purely imaginary f(x). < 1326306625 957028 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, not that one < 1326306632 841249 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I meant if the fourier series was only positive real parts. < 1326306639 73825 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I mean only natural numbers. < 1326306655 688595 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr it was more similar to "Causation causes correlation causes correlation causes causation." but that doesn't sound quite right either < 1326306720 412223 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelog causation < 1326306733 242931 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: basically my question is: what subset of all possible Fourier series represents only periodic functions. < 1326306751 750494 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25517 < 1326306847 869273 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs causation < 1326306860 474097 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21658 < 1326306861 683358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Can't say I'm still quite grokking it. I mean, a Fourier *series*, which has a countable number of coefficients, represents only periodic functions, period. If you have a nonperiodic function, you can take its (continuous) Fourier *transform* instead. < 1326306890 116408 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nevermind.. < 1326306905 545392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: don't repaste, just wait a bit and refresh < 1326306911 600746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326306918 327818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: wtf, causation has only been said that few times in here? < 1326306923 627526 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric : correlation correlating with causation is correlated with correlation causing causation, and thus causes correlation to cause causation < 1326306941 867976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmmmm is the fourier transform still a time-varying signal? < 1326307016 866630 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: A Fourier transform of a continuous function with a real argument is a continuous function with a real argument, if that's what you mean. Conventionally the first one is called "time" and the second one is called "frequency", but you're certainly free to call both whatever. < 1326307036 382375 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't I misspell it the first time, since pastelog gave nothing and pastelogs gave me results? < 1326307056 998947 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm basically confused as to how a fourier transform can represent a non-periodic signal. < 1326307100 799691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: the "error: not in manifest" thing is usually just a delay but i dunno what happened there < 1326307102 491376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/pastelog < 1326307105 525256 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ \ pasterandom() { \ if [ "$1" -gt 150 ]; then \ echo "No." \ exit \ fi \ for i in $(seq "$1"); do \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ done | paste \ } \ \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ pasterandom "$1" \ else \ lines=$(grep -P -i -- "$1" < 1326307109 632126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: S(f) = \int_{-\inf}^{\inf} s(t) * e^{-i*2pi*f*t} dt -- why would s(t) need to be periodic? < 1326307115 204975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/pastelog < 1326307118 557384 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 602 Jan 11 18:38 bin/pastelog < 1326307120 23830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls -l bin/pastelogs < 1326307123 418553 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 602 Jan 11 18:38 bin/pastelogs < 1326307129 88375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1326307130 569515 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I can't read that... < 1326307131 988872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run diff bin/pastelog{,s} < 1326307135 162620 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326307141 650913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah no it's fine < 1326307144 470472 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh yes I can < 1326307145 92183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a glitch < 1326307147 454262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Anyway, if you *do* apply that to a periodic s(t), then the resulting S(f) is a Dirac comb modulated with a discrete set of coefficients. (The Fourier series coefficients, namely.) < 1326307217 129216 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oklopol's sentence was the one I was thinking about but thinking some more about it it seems to mean the opposite of what I expected it to mean < 1326307249 112259 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so is it because it's an integral and not a summation? < 1326307283 832020 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm confused as to how the inverse transform can produce a non-periodic signal, as well. < 1326307389 643976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's just another integral. I seem to recall it's reasonably simple to show that if you stick the "forward transform" inside the inverse transform integral, you'll be left with just the original f(t), with not too many assumptions on f(t). < 1326307432 660929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I mean, forward transform has e^{-i...} and inverse transform has e^{i...} with the same "..." in it, and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. < 1326307449 738366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. < 1326307452 802496 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :798) [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice. < 1326307493 269132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: (If you have a Fourier series instead, the resulting function is periodic, since it's just a sum of complex exponentials.) < 1326307557 7261 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right so basically I don't understand because I intuitively grasp fourier transform in terms of fourier series, and am really bad at calculus.. < 1326307645 430057 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I NOTICED < 1326307692 62426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OH NO. Okay, I'll leave the integral signs in place and just shuffle something in through the "back door" over the dt. < 1326307692 465835 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, so in other words you grasp the Fourier transform as a magic box that turns a function into a series. < 1326307703 87017 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1326307719 707894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I get all of its components too! < 1326307725 519025 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Euler's formula < 1326307732 503289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AKA "not grasping the Fourier transform at all". < 1326307732 748125 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and integrals < 1326307744 329000 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, but not how to integrate complex numbers... < 1326307777 642921 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fourier transforms don't require any integration of complex numbers. < 1326307837 980060 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they require integration of real numbers within complex number functions < 1326307888 83971 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\int f(x) e^-2pi*i*x*zeta dx = \int (cos e^-2pi*x*zeta + i sin ({...})) = \int cos {...} + i \int sin{...}. < 1326307899 132715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1326307899 289445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being really bad at calculus is a great position to be in if you want to write signal processing code. < 1326307900 291248 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1326307929 515823 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah that's still valid even with the f(x). < 1326307959 242217 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: poking fun at people all day in an IRC channel is a great position to be in if you want to lead a fruitful life. < 1326307961 102462 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just put suitable things in the {...} to compensate. < 1326308014 185061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry, misread as "that's still valid even without the f(x)" as in "f(x) e^{-2pi*i*x*zeta} = (cos e^{-2pi*x*zeta + i sin ({...})) for any f(x)". < 1326308018 307495 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just f(x) before the sin and cos. < 1326308038 828067 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PART :#esoteric < 1326308129 67692 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could've at least quit first. < 1326308194 828332 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least left with a "ragepat" message, that's the convention. < 1326308237 587130 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326308246 536641 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1326308327 637858 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326308443 992831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti doesn't seem to have realised that the "you're WASTING your LIFE so SAD" angle doesn't really work on IRC. < 1326308464 55095 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a programming channel, at that. < 1326308475 556220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: One expressly dedicated to languages with absolutely no practical use. < 1326308486 983718 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can read this text, you are wasting your life < 1326308504 843733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The blind people in the room thank you. < 1326308526 319521 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's not how esolangs are defined, is it? < 1326308527 190576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can hear this text, you are doubly-wasting your life. (Take that, screenreader users.) < 1326308551 924066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: BRAILLE DISPLAY < 1326308553 439130 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can feel this text, you are wasting your life < 1326308554 16118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :S < 1326308558 131165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn,. < 1326308559 918955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1326308561 975970 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was fast. < 1326308570 646111 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can smell this text, I don't know what's going on. < 1326308570 802332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, no, but it's practically true. < 1326308576 181765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1326308580 126648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can fnarf this text, you are Gregor < 1326308609 483534 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can taste this text, stop licking your screen. < 1326308624 565965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can propriocept this text, wtf? < 1326308685 941764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can equilibriocept this text, don't you get seasick in your fancy rotating ball thing, huh? < 1326308688 358836 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that were a word, I think it should be "proprioceive". < 1326308689 30855 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can... balance this text, you used the wrong cables. < 1326308696 270203 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, damn you. < 1326308765 671968 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you couldn't divine this text, you suck at fortune telling < 1326308769 605660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can feel this text as pain, you're probably not the only one groaning. < 1326308781 398910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You're a proprioceive. < 1326308795 491952 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm a noun. < 1326308802 654814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can synesthese this text, cool! < 1326308806 370201 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Your MOTHER was a noun. < 1326308809 215860 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can detect this text with your Golgi organ, you should really see a doctor. < 1326308818 682248 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-234-153.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326308821 566437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :inb4 Deewiant complains about my verbing. < 1326308823 61123 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-165.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326308864 257882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can feel pain in your heart because of the intense predictability of this text, I empathise. < 1326308877 385068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can echolocate this text, hello to our dolphin/bat/batman/etc. friends. < 1326308919 711812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg do we have any dolphins in the channel < 1326308966 815193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're probably just hiding. < 1326308974 793068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi dolfins :DDDDDDDddddddddd < 1326309170 145174 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is /why/ they're hiding. < 1326309238 876662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can magnetocept this channel, we're sorry for messing up your migration patterns. < 1326309254 16399 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326309348 401478 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326309348 807871 :kallisti!~eris@h0.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1326309348 964198 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326309436 903414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Magnetoception" sounds like a bad one-word pitch for an X-Men film involving nesting or dreams somehow. < 1326309459 180450 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1326309469 101080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :M A G N E T O C E P T I O N < 1326309539 475402 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had made the mistake of assuming this was a channel about topics in mathematics and computing. I have since corrected that flaw and will now be idle until I can think of ways to belittle others until I feel better about myself. < 1326309568 639839 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, extra-sensory perception is a weird concept... if such perception actually happened, wouldn't that just make it ordinary sensory perception? < 1326309672 161761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Just so you know, the joining-and-throwing-the-gauntlet-down thing works better if you /quit afterwards. < 1326309768 592698 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you could go after iti, but he at least acknowledges his ignorance. < 1326309825 550248 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's great is that I don't even have to prove my own point. I can just let people respond and have it proven automatically. < 1326309894 277713 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1326309948 309984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think I'm going to have to step down from the Ragepart Professorship of Drama Kingliness. < 1326309951 510067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not worthy. < 1326309953 141790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ragepat < 1326309958 678438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW CAN I TYPO A TYPO < 1326310060 77136 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't know about that. < 1326310070 507869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be pretty hard to top the Optbot Incident. < 1326310111 267883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Like you haven't gotten annoyed about inconsistent op decisions. < 1326310184 292918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I also haven't made a bot which automatically clobbers the topic twice a day and refused to listen to any complaints. < 1326310277 303793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I like how you're making this an opportunity to complain about me for some incomprehensible reason? Anyway, I didn't "refuse to listen to complaints", I just found it amusing that the only people who whined about it were people who became active long after it was present for months and entered channel folklore (incl. e.g. being the inspiration for fungot's babble) without a single complaint. < 1326310277 535325 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, commissioner, and have all approved this text. i would also like to tell the house that, in june of this year, broadly reflect the new political framework for aid to the economic and social cohesion policy. after the speech by the president < 1326310351 235356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you brought up the topic of your rageparting, and then you went on the offensive the minute I mentioned one of your more notable ones. < 1326310430 77287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: lol, but seriously fizzie is the one who mentioned ragepatting and I was replying to that, and I'm hardly "on the offensive", I'm just responding when you direct ridiculous comments at me. < 1326310461 951711 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : It would be pretty hard to top the Optbot Incident. ← look at this ridiculous comment. < 1326310464 533144 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at it. < 1326310472 422240 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ragepat means ragepaRt? makes more sense now... < 1326310528 268623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, you're clearly not going to be satisfied no matter what I say, so whatevs < 1326310542 600319 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, clearly. < 1326310545 744303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's end it now. < 1326310594 260285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was ending it. < 1326310633 552183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh! gitweb is doing git archive on everything, for no good reason < 1326310674 319679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7iuXAQYRcI < 1326310690 765988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: gitweb offers tarball downloads < 1326310820 926165 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's not good enough! < 1326310851 271532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: disable them then < 1326310888 143532 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this thing is configured by PERL CODE! < 1326310916 563134 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-103.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326310921 309389 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-212-165.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326311061 939304 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :$feature{'snapshot'}{'default'} = []; < 1326311567 671605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1326311977 753047 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1326311994 242314 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can omit those single quotes, btw. < 1326311999 599761 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326312014 175250 :Klisz!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326312026 860172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, ... < 1326312068 185178 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what? it's a valuable piece of information. < 1326312091 713818 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, you're not very good at ragepatting, are you. < 1326312100 347644 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to go pay a thing. < 1326312105 592824 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :with money I conjured out of thin air. < 1326312111 818056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a little machine that gives out money. < 1326312131 417904 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall you fixing your rehosting problem. < 1326312132 76729 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :god bless America land of free money* < 1326312141 431089 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*see terms and conditions) < 1326312159 945871 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there never was one. < 1326312161 160934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You reconnected and joined here later. < 1326312174 706887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened once because I don't remember why. < 1326312185 880936 :DCliche!~Klisz@c-67-176-12-54.hsd1.co.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1326312272 291855 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I can just put elliott on ignore and then have (mostly) a channel that is constructive. < 1326312279 379351 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no need to quit. < 1326312334 526147 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt he would mind either. < 1326312342 921964 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much drama < 1326312401 911688 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much drummer < 1326312448 626557 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_, fuck off. < 1326312450 678818 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326312457 823008 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hey < 1326312464 541364 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fuck on < 1326312466 238206 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1326312483 800342 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION registered for classes
< 1326312485 221508 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1326312487 104019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Nobody ever puts me on /ignore. < 1326312534 138270 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much drarmar < 1326312549 322852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (Or at least, nobody ever puts fungot on /ignore.)S < 1326312549 519393 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, nobody ever puts fungot on /ignore. < 1326312553 195741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, which classes. < 1326312573 484056 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1326312573 640292 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: mr president, the british government to reconsider its view on this rather than the press, newsprint, the printing houses and advertising. in that context insofar as subsidiarity is concerned. < 1326312587 741929 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Virtualization/Cloud Computing", Human Body/Health & Disease, The West and the World < 1326312600 450131 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+lab for Human Body Health and Disease) < 1326312655 466412 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I forgot something, blargh < 1326312668 319866 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, forgot to register for UNIX Operating Systems II < 1326312677 484908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION predicts kallisti's /ignore will last until he needs Haskell help.
< 1326312686 487764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: So much drachma (δραχμή). < 1326312703 67045 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that not one of Sgeo's classes are CS.
< 1326312722 55083 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that there IS no CS at this college
< 1326312739 431522 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not taking any CS classes this semester either. < 1326312742 156733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that dude seriously get out as soon as possible FFS
< 1326312759 33401 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you count intro to advanced math. < 1326312767 924331 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I get learn about COUNTABLE AND UNCOUNTABLE SETS. < 1326312771 846882 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :in like... chapter 9. < 1326312784 646342 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been pondering just graduating with a BS in this BS degree, then doing CS elsewhere
< 1326312813 937437 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you get a Ph.D if you're really bad at school? < 1326312829 130772 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that's even something I want to do. < 1326312833 458809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the problem is that your college is terrible enough that nobody will care what you did there. < 1326312850 454961 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a BS in bullshit? < 1326312855 293058 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, indeed < 1326312897 917903 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just go get a job instead < 1326312914 468972 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my plan. < 1326312924 457530 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that apparently the readership of the Guardian don't realise that 3 As at A-level does not mean you should be at Oxbridge.
< 1326313122 679136 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I'm going to look for an internship at some point < 1326313156 115731 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :after your brain has rotted to mush at this school of yours? :) < 1326313430 772529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, how do college admissions even work in the US? < 1326313444 99383 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question, I don't remember < 1326313454 393385 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :poorly < 1326313457 755708 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1326313464 824014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Don't be silly, I'm sure his father took care of that. < 1326313469 970625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you had to go through the process? < 1326313478 827804 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, yes, in 2008. < 1326313488 518818 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, actually < 1326313497 197572 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they look at grades and SAT scores mostly. < 1326313503 825373 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was enrolled as non-matriculated for a while at first, then "transferred" in < 1326313504 361054 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :and soemtimes you have to write about things. < 1326313507 122454 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the school < 1326313507 655636 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what do you actually /do/? < 1326313509 975994 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically dependent on each school. < 1326313524 55632 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you don't have anything as pinko commie as UCAS. < 1326313544 553527 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can be described as "pinko commie" then no. < 1326313546 212216 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Fill out application form, hand them information they ask for (typically school transcripts, SAT/ACT scores, maybe an essay) < 1326313546 378683 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have it. < 1326313554 652390 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything can be described thus < 1326313560 102606 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a common application accepted by many but not all US schools < 1326313570 437845 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.commonapp.org/ < 1326313580 555384 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some also require supplemental materials < 1326313585 138749 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so you could apply to an indefinite number of colleges? < 1326313595 41380 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-103.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have the patience, yes. < 1326313595 591238 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. there are fees usually. < 1326313648 991505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, did you even *try* to get into anywhere other than Farmingdale? < 1326313658 872844 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some states have common applications < 1326313661 980551 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, no. < 1326313663 875948 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for their public school systems < 1326313676 538678 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you apply to all the University of California schools at once < 1326313688 517973 :kmc!~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just say which ones you are interested in < 1326313705 399416 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326313712 387033 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey < 1326313716 852457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening < 1326313792 463127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hey, he aimed high. You're the one applying to Cambridge! < 1326313834 260923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cambridge isn't high? < 1326313874 637189 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously not, if dead household appliances can apply. < 1326313902 224158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, so Phantom_Hoover's a hypocrite. < 1326313910 988306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just jealous of Farmingdale students. < 1326313950 915426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have hills there there aren't any hills in cambridge it scares me < 1326313957 390404 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just 180 degrees of sky < 1326313959 48549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUGS < 1326313959 762350 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Numbered backupfile creation might have problems if the filename (not the backup number) contains the first six digits of the speed of light (in m/s) < 1326313980 692113 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://search.cpan.org/~rgiersig/Tie-Persistent-1.00/Persistent.pm < 1326314017 365921 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1326314039 203887 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea. < 1326314230 78672 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use Tie::File < 1326314233 591889 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326314265 927782 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl tie @arr, 'Tie::File', 'foo.txt' or die < 1326314266 534216 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't locate object method "TIEARRAY" via package "Tie::File" at /tmp/input.30334 line 1. < 1326314279 539976 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use Tie::File; tie @arr, 'Tie::File', 'foo.txt' or die < 1326314280 767975 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Died at /tmp/input.30398 line 1. < 1326314826 312035 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326314840 700720 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1326315318 153702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326315338 337700 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: ey < 1326315340 340294 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :+h < 1326315350 797198 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you, kallisti? < 1326315351 587759 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326315382 94447 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: not bad. working on programming stuff as usual. < 1326315395 899811 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1326315450 44448 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention that during my General Studies exam I temporarily exchanged my phone for a raffle ticket labelled "128"? < 1326315604 916427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink c -> m/s < 1326315616 993721 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :299792458 < 1326315635 863116 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink c -> yards/s < 1326315648 572659 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :374740572500/1143 (approx. 3.278570188101487e8) < 1326315651 697713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, you mean they had a phone exchange system? < 1326315666 698024 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, precisely. < 1326315685 224061 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hahahaha general studies) < 1326315705 376937 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they just give you back the phone you gave them, without bothering to even exchange them < 1326315717 830050 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(school put us all in, too much effort to bother to opt out) < 1326315754 491060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: lucky you won it back < 1326315769 671454 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nah, there're better prizes < 1326315801 867937 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1326315966 426078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd, like an A-level in General Studies! < 1326315969 892318 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops no that's worthless < 1326316000 691512 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fell asleep during the exam < 1326316005 467966 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I will brb < 1326316050 640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is irritated by windows update slowing his google searches to a halt.
< 1326316087 74520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means i cannot find out which car brand they use for second prizes in jokes these days. (first prize: fruit basket) < 1326316110 63629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in the uk. < 1326316176 863462 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1326316184 887510 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326316190 193594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess tata nano or something < 1326316288 608885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts his joke dissection scalpel in the ...dammit i'd have to google for that too
< 1326316296 363969 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1326316317 101414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoclave < 1326316337 103129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually remembered it without googling
< 1326316373 986187 :DeadlyFugu!~matt@220.247.179.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326316408 966413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :We apologize for the recent topic change delay | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1326316532 661625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Ye olde reboot request < 1326316715 324511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't really have notable hills at WaveU, but that's all right; we don't have hills in the whole country either. (Okay, there's a hill-alike (an I-can't-believe-it's-not-a-hill?) but it's off to the side of most things; and there's a bit of an incline at the east-side sea-shore.) < 1326316772 468845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1326316825 920799 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, aaaaand Finland is off the list of places to visit. < 1326316860 939371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There's some hills up there in the north, but they're not much to speak of. < 1326316894 712357 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so im not the only one running windows < 1326316898 734201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to hilly norway < 1326316907 837531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also chilly < 1326316936 959980 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, OK, when we get rid of Sweden, maybe we can give you its hills? < 1326316947 791879 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden has hills? < 1326316950 421170 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to australia, we have deserts, surf beaches, snow capped mountains, forests < 1326316951 558502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "c?hilly". < 1326316956 106327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: More than we do. < 1326316956 927467 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I walk uphill every time I travel to and from school, I don't know what you're talking about. < 1326317015 24524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know what hill that is. I mean, there's a bit of a hump at the library, and then the hill-alike which I mentioned which is at the student village side, and I suppose there's some sort of a thing towards that water tower but who goes *there*? < 1326317040 600105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I sure hope you've already discounted Denmark, though? http://satwcomic.com/highest-points < 1326317041 709885 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus fizzie finds out exactly where Deewiant lives < 1326317071 669284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: I'd've assumed the student village, but he said he's in Helsinki somewhere. < 1326317093 829631 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Unless you mean "uphill" from the Lehtisaari side? < 1326317105 249340 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1326317122 665493 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover won't visit a place unless it has hills? < 1326317138 500002 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does walking up a long staircase from underground count as going uphill? < 1326317139 970624 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in exceptional circumstances. < 1326317152 450918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1326317200 462267 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a place in Hexham called "Windmill Hill" < 1326317221 564099 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And another called "Causey hill" < 1326317240 864492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now that I think of it, there is indeed some bumpiness near the Dipoli area there. It's just that my "grounds" (around the CS building) are rather flat. < 1326317245 26740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mostly just parking places. < 1326317252 852755 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The street I live on even has "mountain" in its name. < 1326317275 519235 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edinburgh has Seven Hills, but nobody can agree on what they are < 1326317294 725777 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Rome and Istanbul! < 1326317327 161816 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But some people cannot agree on the splitting of the Ten Commandments either. < 1326317339 771800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Vuorimiehenkatu? Punavuorenkatu? (I've lived there!) Okay, I'm just guessworking here. < 1326317397 626447 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to iterate through all the possibilities? :-P < 1326317422 417259 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Not unless you're going to say #t to one. < 1326317447 850132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was born we lived at Tarkk'ampujankatu, lit. "marksman's street", yet I (probably) can't shoot worth a thing. < 1326317479 715205 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's marksman as in sharpshooter, I don't really know which term is proper. < 1326317523 427115 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-200-79.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326317563 880674 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a street in Edinburgh called Princes street, which confuses everyone. < 1326317564 373206 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you're on some kind of "flatland street" with no hills anywhere? < 1326317568 243145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Korkeavuorenkatu? No, then you'd probably have said "high mountain" or something. Hmm. < 1326317580 110738 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-156-103.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1326317609 72922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, actually I'm on a hill right now. Ohhhhh, were you protesting my "no hills in the country" statement instead of the "no hills at WaveU" one? < 1326317663 627846 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was mostly it. At least the economical WaveU has a bit of a hill going on, too, though. < 1326317687 418588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really mentally consider those WaveUs yet. < 1326317730 219105 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is that dipoli business, although it's not particularly WaveU in my opinion. < 1326317765 906758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WaveU? < 1326317907 520307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Where can I find a good topographical map? I want to know how high my hill is. Karttapaikka used to have different maps, but apparently no longer; there's contour lines but no labels in it. Espoo's map service doesn't have one either; nor Eniro. < 1326317924 386772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some place, it even had heights of buildings and all. < 1326317931 411615 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Earth? < 1326317934 947915 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can I get a large volume of compositions in a machine-readable format including non-note annotations like legato, comments, etc < 1326317951 100179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/googleearth: 14: /usr/lib/googleearth/googleearth-bin: not found < 1326317955 522120 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, it has borkened. < 1326317966 851956 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as performances of said compositions. < 1326317973 394005 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Google maps as well, evidently. < 1326317983 37048 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use the Cloud. < 1326317988 362038 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can, say, analyze what happens when sheet music says "legato" < 1326318041 645805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't know what that means. I know it has the "terrain" map, but can it also tell heights? < 1326318064 279291 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use that Minecraft scale model. < 1326318079 283961 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed it could but it seems as though not, after all. < 1326318105 892467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where faq < 1326318106 295490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ < 1326318109 80819 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :distant future goal: write a Haskell program that accurately plays Gymnopedie No. 1 by Erik Satie, with the same style and pacing. < 1326318113 584045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just testing
< 1326318118 161199 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, that walk-and-bicycle reittiopas plots a height-graph for routes, I can try that. Though there are no roads over the top of the hill. :/ < 1326318137 386786 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can order one from maanmittauslaitos.fi. < 1326318192 372065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "Yay." (Also, wasn't there a recent decision that Maanmittauslaitos can/has to release more map data freely starting from some-date-in-the-future?) < 1326318209 921164 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1326318246 146052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the walk/bicycle route thing says I start from +38m, and then drop down to +2m (presumably from sea level) when going from home to WaveU. < 1326318251 343510 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a GPS device? < 1326318290 387121 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that's good enough. < 1326318301 620749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably gets the order of magnitude right. < 1326318327 812546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess 40 metres counts as a hill. (The top is probably ten metres or so higher up still.) < 1326318393 219917 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only at +27m. < 1326318448 241779 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And WaveU appears to be at +7m? < 1326318571 188678 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-84-13-71-131.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: goodnight < 1326318697 738788 :DeadlyFugu!~matt@220.247.179.25 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1326319023 152052 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1326319784 873843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Munkkivuoren puistotie? Siltavuorenpenger? I'm grasping at straws here. (Sorry, had to empty a waiting laundry machine.) < 1326319813 378752 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you're checking that those are at +27m. < 1326319845 862764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, and I don't think e.g. Munkkivuoren puistotie is. < 1326319880 366241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or could it be just Vuorikatu? That'd be dastardly. < 1326319908 257496 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, sorry, I'm not that dastardly. < 1326320436 64686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mentioned the subway recently, maybe I should look near the stations; though sadly I don't know anything about the streets east of Sörnäinen. Vilhonvuorenkatu? Kulmavuorenkatu? Tupavuori? Sorsavuorenkatu? Vuorenpeikontie? (Yes, yes.) Roihuvuorentie? Oh no, the subway *branches*. < 1326320446 115714 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be back to check the heights of all these when I have some free time. < 1326320513 160230 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'll just give up; what's the point of any of this, anyway? < 1326320532 916133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, why on earth are you making me do this? This is stupef. I quit. < 1326320538 478369 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're an anorak < 1326320683 474983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that some sort of a jacket? < 1326320725 89334 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submit that I wasn't making you do anything. < 1326320726 838205 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely < 1326320737 838311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implicitly. < 1326320742 563388 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1326320750 691210 :Deewiant!~deewiant@cs27125254.pp.htv.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can give you your #t now. < 1326320772 536224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then I'll feel justified in stopping. < 1326320791 327635 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an anorak is a term for someone who wears an anorak due to their fairly specific hobby < 1326320825 422448 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is something llike going out to the piers with a shortwave radio and listening in on ships broadcasts < 1326320841 518779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely sure < 1326320860 537242 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was getting them confused with trainspotters when i said it < 1326320913 527470 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive probably muddled up my facts somewhere in it < 1326320945 976954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a global term or just something you do? < 1326320964 158643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not "you" personally. < 1326320974 716826 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a regional group of people. < 1326320976 366414 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1326320998 875398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it is a well-established thing. < 1326321002 406836 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The more you know, I guess. < 1326321021 548057 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've followed the "Anorak (Slang)" disambig link when I was at the Anorak page the first time. < 1326321036 248642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :British slang, they say. < 1326321038 260508 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the "monoidal monad" article in Wikipedia, are the second and third formulas like a applicative functor (where the morphisms being equal is like pure = return)? Is there any relation to Cartesian closed categories? < 1326321074 306920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1326321079 896447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1326321272 514547 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B1316A0.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1326321502 526121 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a Kleisli category have its own monads? < 1326322015 913335 :cheater_!~cheater@178-26-46-133-dynip.superkabel.de QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1326322635 725697 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1326322720 491863 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test {return (1,2);}; print test{1} < 1326322721 28544 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1326322727 82116 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test {return (1,2);}; print (test{1}) < 1326322727 754201 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1326322730 292156 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1326322739 538894 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test {return (a=>b);}; print (test{a}) < 1326322740 280804 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab < 1326322743 49315 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1326322755 556284 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl sub test {return (a=>b);}; print ((test){a}) < 1326322756 134791 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax error at /tmp/input.10384 line 1, near "){" \ Execution of /tmp/input.10384 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326322910 815912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Kleisli < 1326322911 809702 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) b. (a -> m b) -> Kleisli m a b < 1326322987 657652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eta :: Kleisli m a (T a); mu :: Kleisli m (T (T a)) a < 1326323036 710864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*eta :: Kleisli m a (T a); mu :: Kleisli m (T (T a)) (T a) < 1326323043 321602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tha latter isomorphic to T (T a) -> m (T a) < 1326323074 891726 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the former a -> m (T a) < 1326323094 322083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which looks a bit like a transformer < 1326323121 869857 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe monad transformers give monads in the kleisli category? < 1326323188 728948 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe T itself just needs to be a monad < 1326323232 293853 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eta = return . return; mu = return . join < 1326323494 389197 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought about that still I don't know < 1326324237 979899 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl @{undef} < 1326324241 783665 :HackEgo!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't open perl script "@{undef}": No such file or directory < 1326324246 873214 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl @{undef} < 1326324247 410781 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1326324272 557549 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use strict; @{undef} < 1326324273 229029 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Global symbol "@undef" requires explicit package name at /tmp/input.13293 line 1. \ Execution of /tmp/input.13293 aborted due to compilation errors. < 1326324277 946231 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lol < 1326324283 66848 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl use strict; @{+undef} < 1326324283 643953 :EgoBot!foobar@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /tmp/input.13351 line 1. < 1326324331 740347 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably still win the D&D game with only half as much power points. < 1326324428 54607 :DeadlyFugu!~matt@220.247.179.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1326324756 366290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: I'm rapidly becoming sure you don't understand how locks work <-- maybe he's actually a talking dog < 1326324779 25477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm elliott deficiency < 1326324785 423351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder it was silent < 1326324792 613844 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :locks are used for closing something so so hard that you need a whole key to open it < 1326324829 94258 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what topology lacks < 1326324833 15345 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :keys and locks :o < 1326324837 624395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1326324849 768562 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do? < 1326325063 289001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can confirm i don't recall any keys or locks in topology < 1326325337 975115 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :math has been overwhelmingly awesome this week < 1326325342 352072 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scary < 1326325432 800976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: the universe is probably balancing out the collapse of my ZipList monad definition < 1326325454 48111 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didn't say i've actually succeeded in anything < 1326325473 397693 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although sofar, i've managed to stick to my at least one result a day policy this year < 1326325795 182497 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although today's results were rather silly. but i may just have the awesomest conjecture < 1326325803 961296 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let X be a zero-entropy subshift < 1326325815 210643 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then X is totally disconnected in the Weyl topology < 1326325819 839895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wow, a drug which is literally the mirror image of another drug by the same company. <-- someone should point out that mirroring organic molecules can give something with completely different effects. < 1326325887 524247 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the distance of two points is given by for each n taking the n-block where they have maximal difference a_n, and then taking lim sup of a_n/n < 1326325923 242973 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not true for the related Besicovitch topology where instead of maximizing difference of n-blocks you take this at the origin < 1326325933 629269 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that the origin still doesn't actually play any sort of role) < 1326325951 358499 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-200-79.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1326325956 580162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was under the impression that didn't need to be pointed out due to obviousness. < 1326325960 295313 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-227-50.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1326326024 303683 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well the discussion sounded like people were assuming mirroring a drug was a trivial change < 1326326052 883480 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mirroring organic molecules can give something with completely different effects." i don't even believe this so i don't think it's obvious < 1326326111 747337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well, it's true. < 1326326235 20245 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but WHY? < 1326326261 341769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because CHEMISTRY. < 1326326284 952773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nearly all cell machinery is built with only one handedness, and so only will interact with the handedness version they are evolved to interact with < 1326326292 894471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*version of molecules < 1326326316 996501 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you didn't mean that EVERY molecule of the drug is flipped? < 1326326330 124097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes. < 1326326346 412919 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean < 1326326356 214568 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious that it will work differently on a human < 1326326372 100119 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you flip him < 1326326377 291757 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't it be the same drug?