00:00:25 <zzo38> elliott: Do you mean, like, Unlambda or Lazy-K, for example?
00:00:41 <elliott> well... for sufficiently wrong definitions of "longer"
00:02:08 <oerjan> elliott: i have a hunch that might somehow violate a theorem, similar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_speed-up_theorem
00:02:28 <oerjan> for sufficiently weird definitions of violate
00:02:51 <elliott> oerjan: well um of course it's impossible
00:02:55 <elliott> without an infinite alphabet at least
00:03:01 <kmc> the famous mathematician G%C3%B6del
00:03:26 <oerjan> kmc: he encrypted his name to keep the persecutors away
00:03:28 <elliott> "This statement cannot be proved in Peano arithmetic in less than a googolplex symbols" goedel really liked antagonising PA
00:04:43 <elliott> oerjan: lmao at "List of long proofs" in the see also
00:04:55 <elliott> i somehow doubt they're googolplex-length
00:06:16 <oerjan> as even an automated prover couldn't check them
00:07:44 <Jafet> They could be in a less powerful system
00:09:53 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/textfile/miscellaneous/impossible_physics_list
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00:13:32 <kallisti> do most web browsers support HTML% yet?
00:13:58 <ais523> hmm, there's a website called caniuse or something
00:14:01 <ais523> that tracks the support
00:14:49 <kallisti> so HTML5 Audio is supported in the newest versions of everything except Opera Mini
00:15:11 <kallisti> browsers in risk of not having it include... IE. awesome.
00:15:11 <monqy> audio why do you want audio audio is awful dont do audio
00:15:12 <HackEgo> primo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
00:15:12 <olsner> kallisti: I'd say that's a feature though
00:15:22 -!- oerjan has set topic: Hexhammers chase scottish clan back to Edinburgh with proton packs | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
00:15:49 <olsner> but of course, even Mini could open audio through whatever platform audio handler(s) there are
00:15:53 <monqy> do you want audio why do you want audio dont
00:16:23 <zzo38> I suggest not using any fancy stuff unless needed for your webpage for sure; don't use video and audio and JavaScripts and CSS and pictures for everything.
00:16:39 <olsner> I'd say implementing that would be a horrible thing, and I will obviously prevent it
00:17:51 <kallisti> zzo38: it's difficult to implement a simple audio player without playing audio.
00:18:28 <monqy> noisy webpages are why bad things happen
00:18:29 <zzo38> kallisti: Yes; if you need to play audio then of course you need to play audio. But if you want to implement a simple audio player you probaly don't need a webpage anyways
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00:25:06 <kallisti_> is there a way to fix this without restart?
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00:27:00 <kallisti> right clicking was the solution
00:27:46 <kallisti> I think gftp is just bad and I should never use it again.
00:28:09 <olsner> so based on the last 9 lines, #esoteric is now kallisti's channel for talking to his/her self
00:29:19 <zzo38> A few lines are not sufficient statistics.
00:30:05 <olsner> zzo38: hush, you're breaking the statistics
00:32:35 <kallisti> WHY ARE ALL OF THESE FTP CLIENTS SO BAD
00:32:59 <zzo38> kallisti: What happen if you just type in "ftp" at the prompt?
00:34:05 <elliott> im sure learning a new crappy inconsistent gui app will be about 10x eaiser
00:34:40 <kallisti> well for doing a few simple things when under a slight time pressure.
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01:04:29 <kmc> <cl1> i got a new irc client Pidgin <cl1> aparently xchat is not free after 30 days
01:05:17 <pikhq> So, US courts think that having a .com or .net hostname suffices in order for them to have jurisdiction over you.
01:05:25 <elliott> hmm, i need to find some way to convince elliottt to change their legal name
01:05:47 <kmc> the US has 'jurisdiction' over the entire world anyway
01:05:48 <pikhq> Apparently nobody in the legal system even knows a damned thing about anything.
01:05:48 <elliott> or else, try and be really active in #haskell about twenty minutes ago
01:05:59 <elliott> minimise or maximise confusion, the choice is mine
01:06:02 <kmc> you're lucky if the courts claim jurisdiction
01:06:14 <kmc> otherwise the executive branch can unilaterally blow up your house
01:06:30 <pikhq> Y'mean it's a matter of "most money wins" rather than "we win" then?
01:06:38 <elliott> hey gusy i hear ameriKa suxe!
01:07:04 <pikhq> I need to move to the fucking Moon.
01:08:20 <kmc> jesus h christ in a chicken basket, houston
01:08:24 <kmc> we're on the fucking moon, over
01:09:17 <elliott> pikhq: you can't escape on the moon!!! president george w "satan" bush will just declare it as ame"corporatism"riKKKan territory
01:09:28 <elliott> oh man, ame"corporatism"riKKKan is a really good name
01:09:30 <pikhq> Hey, if I move to the moon, I estimate it'd be at least 50 years before the US could enforce anything there.
01:09:34 <elliott> that was completely accidental, i've created a masterpiece
01:09:54 <pikhq> Given that the current US space program progress is *negative*, it could actually be forever.
01:10:07 -!- elliott has set topic: united irc of hexham & helsinki of the UNUNITED states of ame"corporatism"riKKKa | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
01:10:45 <elliott> pikhq: are you suggesting that we are somehow absorbing spaceflight endeavours from space
01:11:08 <pikhq> elliott: No. If we were we'd probably have fewer energy issues. :P
01:11:32 <pikhq> (I presume if you can absorb spaceflight endeavours, you can then extract electricity from it)
01:11:45 <pikhq> "I call it: the Science-Consuming Generator."
01:12:19 <pikhq> It sucks up future science and makes energy, thus killing two birds with one stone.
01:13:32 <elliott> someone tell me to go to bed
01:13:46 <pikhq> elliott: Go to bed.
01:16:13 <zzo38> As far as I can tell, the moon never goes directly above the United States. Its maximum declination appears to be 22
01:17:39 <pikhq> zzo38: The US also has about as much of a valid claim to the moon as it does Alpha Centauri.
01:17:40 <primo> nor does the sun, for that matter
01:17:50 <pikhq> i.e. "Hahahaha you can't even get there!"
01:18:57 <zzo38> primo: True; the sun doesn't either. The limits of the sun declination are the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn
01:20:00 <zzo38> Alpha Centauri is much farther away, but I don't know its declination.
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01:20:39 <primo> itwouldn't take long to find out, if one were interested in knowing
01:21:53 <primo> and that it's something that baffles me as well
01:22:38 <primo> we should, by all logic, be the most intelligent humans to have ever lived. anything we want to know, we can know in a matter of seconds
01:22:59 <primo> yet, that doesn't seem to be the case at all
01:26:51 <zzo38> I have the declinations for 47 stars, but not Alpha Centauri
01:28:30 <zzo38> I have the right ascension as well. They are listed in the order according to their right ascension.
01:28:45 <zzo38> I can also calculate ecliptic coordinates if wanted.
01:29:28 <oerjan> Declination -60° 50′ 02.308″ says wikipedia
01:30:10 <oerjan> -60° 50′ 13.761″ for Alpha Centauri B
01:30:49 <zzo38> OK. I didn't know there are two
01:31:17 <oerjan> −62° 40′ 46.141″ for Proxima Centauri
01:36:32 <zzo38> The list I have is not completely by order of right ascension; it is approximate. Andromeda is past zero now; in 1202 it was before zero. And sometimes they move past each other. In 1202 some were in a different order than listed, but now they are in the exact order of right ascension, even though Andromeda is past zero.
01:43:27 <shachaf> kmc: The official XChat for Windows is indeed not free after 30 days.
01:43:39 <kmc> that's fucked
01:44:06 <kmc> Windows more like WinKKKbl0$E
01:45:48 <zzo38> Are constellations supposed to be numbered according to alphabetical order of their Latin names?
01:52:01 <oerjan> zzo38: http://www.iau.org/public/constellations/ has no numbers that i can see
01:52:47 * oerjan notes Aquarius (Aqr) is before Aquila (Aql), so it's not sorted by abbreviation
01:53:53 <zzo38> Astrolog includes a list of constellations (Alt+5) in alphabetical order by Latin name (including Aquarius before Aquila); but they are also numbered 1 to 88.
01:55:29 <oerjan> well i imagine you cannot get more authoritative than the IAU on this
01:55:42 <zzo38> Yes, the IAU is authoritative for such things
01:55:56 <Sgeo> kallisti, there was an update earlier
01:55:57 <zzo38> But this list is same as the IAU, except that it is numbered
01:58:24 <zzo38> O, the IAU even has constellation boundary files, so I suppose it can be used to make up a computer program that displays them.
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01:59:57 <roper> they say one got online every day to remedy affairs caused other hours from her nick
02:01:21 <zzo38> roper: I do not understand without a context?
02:03:02 <roper> they are quite talkative
02:03:43 <roper> i think they use your history from other conversations
02:03:47 <kallisti> oh wow mozilla doesn't support mp3 in audio elements.
02:04:05 <zzo38> kallisti: Use Vorbis or FLAC. MP3 is no good anyways
02:04:22 <kallisti> yes that's why Mozilla doesn't support its use in audio elements.
02:04:23 <zzo38> roper: Yes, that is one reason it is no good
02:05:34 <zzo38> For videos, use Theora.
02:07:20 <primo> question for anyone
02:07:49 <primo> if an iterpretter for a given esolang doesn't work at all, can i just overwrite it with one that does?
02:08:33 <primo> i'm looking at ferNANDo
02:08:43 <zzo38> primo: You could do so, yes; if they don't like then they can still view the history. But first ensure that you are correct about it not working at all, because maybe it does work on their computer.
02:08:50 <primo> the haskell implementation is correct. python not at all
02:10:02 <zzo38> Check what things were changed by the anonymous modificationsby 164.67.235.79 and 131.179.32.131
02:10:28 <zzo38> Also look at talk page
02:10:31 <primo> zzo38: can't possibly work on any machine. A = B nand C was originally implemented as A = A nand B
02:10:49 <primo> and the talk page implemenation, is even worse o.O
02:11:14 <zzo38> Well, then, please do fix it.
02:11:33 <zzo38> I did not look carefully at them or try to run them on my computer
02:11:49 <primo> output 2**(9-i) should be 2**(7-i) (or, <<7-i)
02:12:16 <primo> and the 'fix' to find the last line number is entirely broken
02:12:20 <oerjan> primo: well if you think it's so bad it's not worth basing a corrected one on it
02:12:28 <primo> because list.reverse() is in-place, it returns None
02:13:03 * oerjan wrote the haskell one btw
02:13:43 <roper> may ever be a limit for the most inefficient formulation?
02:14:04 <roper> that does the calculation
02:15:10 <oerjan> roper: you can always put in extra nop's... this is a technical point used to show that O(f) is contained in O(g) if f <= g
02:16:13 <oerjan> but you can pad in time and space for technical reasons
02:16:31 <zzo38> I would have written it entirely differently but your way is just as good. But I generally write Haskell programs seem to be differently than most, anyways. A literate Haskell program can be implemented in MediaWiki; just make the codes with > and with <pre> around it! And then, it does have the URL to download the raw copy, so you can use that to download .lhs file.
02:18:07 <olsner> "Boy without a cerebellum baffles doctors" - I wonder if this is a documentary about guido
02:18:18 <roper> how would you make worse a = sum (range(0,n)) ?
02:18:34 <roper> worst complexity class
02:18:42 <kallisti> it seems as though if I look away from skype for too long it will be frozen when I come back.
02:20:09 <kallisti> I don't understand the question then
02:20:29 <zzo38> Instead of sum(range...) you could convert it to single algebra formula
02:20:37 <primo> ahh yes, it seems 164.67.235.79 broke it
02:21:07 <roper> zzo38 that would not change complexity
02:22:03 <zzo38> You could write n*(n+1)/2 instead
02:22:43 <roper> zzo38 wrong, that is O(1)
02:23:12 <roper> i mean worst complexity
02:23:35 <zzo38> I don't know how to change it to worst complexity.
02:24:11 <roper> you can optimize but not worsenize
02:24:32 <kallisti> what is the "worst complexity"?
02:24:42 <quintopia> roper: you can easily worsenize. see bogosort for an example in sorting
02:25:13 <kallisti> I would say there's no end to the amount of useless operations you can perform.
02:25:27 <roper> worst complexity is... at least O(n^2)
02:25:28 <kallisti> if you count it, O(infnity) is the "worst possible case"
02:25:39 <kallisti> though big O notation is usually defined over reals.
02:25:49 <zzo38> It is possible to write a program in the "most pessimum" if necessary, such as what someone did when writing a program with rotating memory, they moved the instructions around to slow it down, instead of using delay loops.
02:26:20 <roper> i mean complexity class, not number of operations
02:26:31 <quintopia> here's a worse way to do that sum: replace the "a=" with "point a to a location in memory that already has the right value. if it does not exist, write random bits memory and repeat"
02:26:43 <oerjan> zzo38: hm was that the Mel story?
02:27:52 <roper> i am over satisfied
02:28:01 <oerjan> roper: the problem here is that it takes a sentient being to determine whether the worsening is allowed or not.
02:28:08 <roper> no it is still o n
02:28:54 <roper> worse than x*N OPERATIONS?
02:29:01 <kallisti> worst case of quintopia's algorithm is O(infinity) aka it continues to the end of time.
02:29:19 <quintopia> roper: it is not O(n). it is expected to take O(n*x*1/p)
02:29:27 <roper> that is not an alforithm, kallinsti
02:29:43 <quintopia> where x is the size of memory and p is the probability of the right number occurring in it
02:29:58 <kallisti> roper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_algorithm
02:31:02 <kallisti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_complexity#Computational_complexity
02:31:06 <roper> and deterministic?
02:31:56 <kallisti> okay it resizes the range by repeating each element of the range N times where N is the length of the list
02:31:59 <kallisti> then it calculates the sum of that
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02:33:00 <quintopia> for instance "count to A(n) every time you increment the counter that will eventually contain your answer"
02:34:03 <oerjan> it is easy to make it _technically_ at least O(enormous(n)). Just do enormous(i) useless operations between normal step i and i+1.
02:34:51 <roper> 2^n is the worst i think... count until the correct result
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02:35:24 <oerjan> roper: i have for a while now thought that you're probably trolling.
02:36:24 <roper> just a though experiment
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03:07:20 <kmc> what about cosbycoin
03:08:51 <oerjan> well if you insist on using bills...
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03:10:55 <kallisti> oerjan: ..........................
03:11:31 <zzo38> I have a different idea the kind of payment system to use; you buy the card with the account number and SSH key, split the account if necessary, and then give them the code. So it would be decentralized system. And not necessarily require the use of a computer.
03:14:05 <kallisti> has anyone heard about the Jan. 18 "blackout"?
03:14:22 <zzo38> kallisti: What does that mean?
03:15:00 <kmc> reddit is going to go offline on Jan 18 to protest SOPA
03:15:11 <kmc> en.wikipedia might too, or at least display a banner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action
03:15:34 <kmc> if facebook and google do it, that might be something
03:16:03 <kallisti> oh god I would have to use bing.
03:16:37 <zzo38> Will Freenode go offline too?
03:17:32 <zzo38> You could probably still use gopher if Google go ofline
03:19:06 <zzo38> Or some Wikipedia mirror
03:23:20 <kmc> zzo38, you're aware that Google does not actually control the HTTP protocol, yes?
03:23:39 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, I am aware.
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03:45:31 <zzo38> I am writing a program called Internet Quiz Engine. It is written in CWEB, and will be available to put your own quiz file too, after I have tested it. It is a program to run on gopher services; similar to CGI but much simpler. There is only one environment variable called SELECTOR and no headers.
03:46:07 <zzo38> (I have already written other programs to use this convention, you can use PHP or Perl or whatever you want, as long as you can access environment variables)
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04:10:22 <zzo38> Even though it is C, there is no buffer overflow because there is no buffer!
04:19:45 <zzo38> How often would you use >>= or join with Parsec? Probably only very rarely; it isn't useful in most cases. Actually, return probably isn't very useful with Parsec either; if I need a constant value I can use <$ to result in that value when certain things are parsed.
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04:25:55 <oerjan> zzo38: you'd want >>= if you want to branch on the first parser in a way too complicated to be efficiently split into <|> cases?
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04:27:32 <zzo38> oerjan: Well, yes; a dependent parser (I don't know if that is a proper term used anywhere), in case you want to do something such as a number written in decimal form which tells how many bytes to read for the data, and stuff like that. But it is not required for most things you are going to parse.
04:28:37 <oerjan> "non-context-free" would be an approximation.
04:29:04 <zzo38> oerjan: O, is that what it is called? Or, only approximately?
04:30:01 <oerjan> well in principle you always _can_ split into <|> 's; i saw a blog post showing how. but it requires using haskell's laziness to make the grammar essentially infinite.
04:30:53 <oerjan> and i think if you use only applicative methods and a finite grammar, you can do only context-free things.
04:33:39 <zzo38> But you would rarely ever need it differently.
04:34:30 <oerjan> you might also want >>= i think if you want to check for things like variables being in scope. but of course you can do that post-parsing as well.
04:35:12 <oerjan> oh and you'll need that anyhow if you have arbitrary order of declarations like in haskell.
04:36:03 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, you would probably do that post-parsing. Although if it needs to be done during parsing for some reason then yes you would want >>= for that purpose, but I suppose that is also a "dependent parser" or "non-context-free" or whatever? Is it?
04:40:38 <zzo38> So I suppose context-free with an infinite grammar is like non-context-free?
04:42:02 <oerjan> yes, you can turn an arbitrary String -> Bool function into such a grammar
04:46:38 <oerjan> here is the blog article; note that he uses "context-sensitive" but that's too restrictive: http://byorgey.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/parsing-context-sensitive-languages-with-applicative/
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05:01:18 <zzo38> Nginx does not properly support headerless HTTP. I suggest that they fix that.
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05:02:07 <kmc> "headerless HTTP" sounds like "not HTTP"
05:02:40 <kmc> do you mean HTTP 0.9?
05:03:13 <zzo38> kmc: No, I mean headerless HTTP. True it is not complete HTTP. But Apache supports headerless HTTP.
05:03:44 <kmc> i don't think nginx is obliged to support everything apache does
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05:03:52 <kmc> do you have some documentation of Apache's support
05:03:59 <kmc> all i found googling for "headerless HTTP" was HTTP 0.9
05:04:40 <zzo38> With Apache, omitting the HTTP/1.1 or whatever after the URL omits both the request header and the response header. Nginx will omit the request header if you do that, but it will not omit the response header.
05:05:16 <kmc> is this a documented feature
05:05:22 <kmc> or just something that happens to work
05:05:28 <zzo38> I don't know, but I know how it works because I tried it.
05:05:52 <zzo38> And Apache's headerless HTTP seems more reasonable to me than Nginx's headerless HTTP.
05:05:52 <kmc> so now you want nginx to be bug-compatible with apache
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05:06:31 <zzo38> As far as I know it isn't a bug, it is supposed to be like that.
05:06:57 <shachaf> kmc: According to http://www.apacheweek.com/features/http11 this is standard HTTP 0.9 behaviour.
05:07:58 <kmc> hm it does seem nginx claims to support HTTP/0.9
05:08:02 <kmc> i'm surprised
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05:08:41 <shachaf> When I $ nc localhost 80\nGET /\n, it gives me an nginx response page with no headers.
05:08:59 <shachaf> Maybe the headers are coming from a CGI-style executable or something along those lines?
05:09:35 <zzo38> shachaf: OK. Yes maybe that is the case, or maybe they changed it from the version I have tried connecting to (including Google and FreeGeek), or whatever else.
05:10:08 <shachaf> I don't think Google runs nginx.
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05:10:44 <zzo38> Then they should fix gws
05:11:07 <zzo38> But I know FreeGeek is nginx and at least the version I have tried had that problem; maybe not all versions do
05:11:26 <zzo38> (I use Apache on my own computer, however.)
05:11:36 <kmc> zzo38, you seem to have an odd idea of what the word "fix" means
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06:31:50 <kmc> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4382223/pure-functional-language-haskell oh man, Haskell question answered by Joel Spolsky
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06:36:48 <Sgeo> Is it correct to say that the big idea is to have the impurity _just outside_ the language level?
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06:37:05 <Sgeo> I mean, of how IO gets done in Haskell
06:37:12 * oerjan hides an impurity monster under Sgeo's bed
06:37:54 * oerjan turing tests notaprogram
06:38:52 <zzo38> notaprogram: Do you mean a black pawn?
06:39:05 <oerjan> ok you're human, no computer could play chess that badly
06:39:55 <zzo38> notaprogram: Then is it a variant or is it standard FIDE chess? In standard FIDE chess, you cannot move a white pawn to b1
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06:48:16 <Mathnerd314> the universe is a functional programming language
06:48:39 <Mathnerd314> but it is so esoteric that only I know how to program it
06:49:38 <oerjan> (i think even elliott would consider that an appropriate case)
06:50:16 <oerjan> it's quite physically possible.
06:51:05 <oerjan> not in the near future, no.
06:51:22 <Jafet> You need a heart of gold.
06:56:00 <monqy> a heart of pyrite will do
06:56:12 <kmc> Sgeo, to me the essential idea is that descriptions of IO are first-class values
06:56:47 <Sgeo> kmc, right, and right outside the language, the description of main is executed?
06:56:55 <kmc> i wouldn't say that's "outside the language"
06:57:04 <kmc> the Haskell Report specifies the meaning of each IO action
06:57:13 <Jafet> Outside the miranda of the language
06:57:21 <kmc> you have one semantics for function application and evaluation, and another semantics for execution of IO actions
06:57:24 <kmc> they're both part of the language
06:57:40 <kmc> in fact the rules for execution invoke the rules for evaluation
06:58:12 <Mathnerd314> monqy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh44QPT1mPE
06:58:15 <kmc> before you can execute an IO action, you have to compute what it is
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06:58:41 <kmc> not just at the "outer level" of main, but at each occurrence of (>>=)
06:59:17 <kmc> if you have unsafe{Perform,Interleave}IO then the rules are mutually recursive: the result of evaluating some value can depend on the result of executing some IO action
06:59:56 <kmc> it would be interesting to program in a strict-evaluation language which still has the evaluation/execution distinction, but where unsafePerformIO is not as stigmatized
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07:06:36 <Mathnerd314> kmc: it would be even more interesting to program in http://requestforlogic.blogspot.com/2011/08/embracing-and-extending-levy-language.html
07:13:15 <kmc> Mathnerd314, cool
07:13:48 <Mathnerd314> but unfortunately there's no Haskell implementation
07:17:14 <zzo38> How long is Jyte closed for upgrades/bad gateway?
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08:27:22 <zzo38> Internet Quiz Engine: gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/1quiz.menu*a
08:28:11 <Sgeo> Chrome doesn't seem to support gopher
08:28:36 <Mathnerd314> firefox removed support... but there's an extension
08:28:46 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/bashgopher/bashgopher
08:29:32 <zzo38> You might need to modify it to work with your system. h = go back, j k = down/up, u i = page down/page up, l = follow, q = quit. When reading text file, space next page, b previous page, q go back.
08:29:59 <zzo38> Such as, adding "-q -1" to nc if necessary, changing "clsb" to "clear", and changing CRLF to LF only.
08:32:47 <zzo38> Does this work for you?
08:38:13 <zzo38> In today's economy, which would be worth more, five golden tumors or five golden mice?
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09:44:36 <HackEgo> 74) <Warrigal> Invalid! Kill! Kill! <Aftran> I get that feeling too.
09:44:57 <HackEgo> 69) <oklopol> Warrigal: what do you mean by 21?
09:45:06 <HackEgo> 21) IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <bsmntbombdood> there is plenty of room to get head twice at once
09:46:31 <HackEgo> 314) <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
09:48:44 <HackEgo> 313) <olsner> it is from 2002 though, I was younger then
09:48:47 <HackEgo> 315) <ais523> elliott: hey, thinking's easier than using the Internet
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09:49:30 <HackEgo> 333) <oklopol> haha, god made one helluva blunder there :DS <oklopol> "WHOOPS HE AIN'T DEAD YET!" <oklopol> "luckily no one will believe him because christians are such annoying retards"
09:49:54 <HackEgo> 249) <nddrylliog> Sgeo: re "hm?": at the emerging languages conf., after the talks we went out for a drinks and all the Factor team was on heavy liquor
09:50:15 <HackEgo> 250) <elliott> mtve, now he's an expert idler. <nddrylliog> mtve: kitty kitty kitty
09:52:14 <HackEgo> 252) <j-invariant> I need a new desktop background <Gregor> j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled) <j-invariant> uhrghoaudp
09:53:21 <HackEgo> 253) * quintopia sits on gregor
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09:54:52 <HackEgo> 254) <Phantom_Hoover> [...] reyouthismootherate [...]
10:02:51 <HackEgo> 302) <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: if the list is in random order, like poor ehird here
10:05:06 <HackEgo> 304) * Received a CTCP VERSION from nyuszika7h * VERSION Microsoft IRC# 2011 64-bit (Windows 8 Beta, x64, 2GB RAM) <nyuszika7h> Gregor: Windows 8 Beta? o_O <Gregor> A small benefit of my brief time as an intern at MS.
10:05:38 <HackEgo> 305) <cpressey> addquoting yourself? isn't that like commenting on your own facebook status? <Gregor> Yup, but I'm JUST THAT AWESOME.
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10:11:43 <HackEgo> 311) <zzo38> I also do not like that it should be disallow just because of too weird. They haveto make up more name so that not everyone has the same name!!!
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10:20:23 <HackEgo> 320) <cpressey> BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN
10:21:01 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1014
10:22:25 <Phantom_Hoover> I liked you more when you were just annoying, rather than insane.
10:22:58 <Mathnerd314> yes, I know. but insanity appears to be the only way out...
10:23:22 <augur> fizzie: ping me when you're available
10:23:41 <kmc> `quote 683
10:23:45 <HackEgo> 683) <kmc> COCKS [...] <kmc> truly cocks
10:24:34 <kmc> wouldn't it be cool if i joined with ms comic chat
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10:31:28 <HackEgo> 325) <oklopol> i'm really sleep \ 544) <elliott> IM FIST IN HEAD AND DONT KNOW TO SLEEP?????? \ 559) <fizzie> That's the stupidest thing I've heard all morning. (Though I did wake up five minutes ago, so I haven't had a chance to hear very much.) <fizzie> The "Why are you still asleep? I told the cat to wake you up." comment does come pretty close, though. \ 613) <monqy> in the past few minutes I tried remembering
10:31:48 <HackEgo> 617) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 663) <shachaf> Real Tar is GNU tar. <shachaf> You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 701) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
10:32:03 <shachaf> Those quotes are terrible.
10:32:30 <shachaf> I'll take solace in the fact that `quote isn't so much "best of" as "random of".
10:38:41 <Vorpal> (why was there a single space in the input line?)
11:45:22 <cheater> clearly a ploy by the romulans to disrupt our communications
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11:46:37 <elliott> -NickServ- Last failed attempt from: elliott_!~elliott@c-69-181-214-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net on Jan 13 15:34:34 2012.
11:52:55 <elliott> "A purely functional user interface is not a user interface at all! It is a picture or maybe even an animation, but it is not something you can interact with."
11:54:34 <elliott> 01:58:45: -!- roper has joined #esoteric.
11:54:35 <elliott> 01:59:57: <roper> they say one got online every day to remedy affairs caused other hours from her nick
11:54:35 <elliott> 02:01:21: <zzo38> roper: I do not understand without a context?
11:54:35 <elliott> 02:01:40: <roper> account hijacking
11:54:35 <elliott> 02:02:13: <roper> bot harassment
11:54:35 <elliott> 02:03:02: <roper> they are quite talkative
11:54:37 <elliott> 02:03:43: <roper> i think they use your history from other conversations
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11:55:31 <Ngevd> If there's ever an esoteric blend of Haskell, f should be equivalent to `(flip f)`
11:55:52 <kmc> what, haskell isn't esoteric enough for you?
11:56:30 <Ngevd> Nah, I can generally figure out what a Haskell program is for by looking at it for a while
11:57:06 <cheater> Ngevd: i was thinking exactly that haskell is a right-to-left language
11:57:24 <cheater> and indeed i define flip ($) in all my programs to be <>
11:58:24 <Ngevd> I would have called it
12:04:42 <elliott> 00:24:32 <Fifo> dibblego: Why did you kick me?
12:04:42 <elliott> 00:25:04 <dibblego> Fifo: please do not spam the channel or its users in private
12:04:42 <elliott> 00:25:29 <Fifo> dibblego: Sorry!
12:04:42 <elliott> 00:25:49 <Fifo> dibblego: Please join ##iPhoneFifo!
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12:06:27 <elliott> 02:35:24: <oerjan> roper: i have for a while now thought that you're probably trolling.
12:06:27 <elliott> 02:35:44: <roper> not entirely
12:06:27 <elliott> 02:35:51: <kallisti> he could just be really dumb.
12:06:36 <elliott> oerjan logreading: i'm definitely leaning on the side of just really dumb
12:08:22 <kmc> this is such a weird channel
12:08:37 <Ngevd> It's possitively esoteric
12:08:56 <elliott> 03:23:20: <kmc> zzo38, you're aware that Google does not actually control the HTTP protocol, yes?
12:09:11 <kmc> <zzo38> Internet Quiz Engine: gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/1quiz.menu*a
12:09:13 <kmc> SOUNDS LEGIT
12:10:11 <kmc> gopher://zzo38computer.foeug3g47fgeg34.ch3p-h4rbl-vjaagra.co.ng:22/../../warez2.php
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12:12:02 <elliott> 04:34:30: <oerjan> you might also want >>= i think if you want to check for things like variables being in scope. but of course you can do that post-parsing as well.
12:12:02 <elliott> 04:35:12: <oerjan> oh and you'll need that anyhow if you have arbitrary order of declarations like in haskell.
12:12:02 <elliott> 04:35:22: <oerjan> (that = post-parsing)
12:12:12 <elliott> hmm, what you need is a bitemporal state monad
12:12:18 <elliott> so that state flows both forwards and backwards
12:12:33 <Ngevd> "bitemporal"!? That two-timing...!
12:12:33 <elliott> i guess you need the state to be a Monoid to combine them
12:12:37 <kmc> one point twenty one jiggawatts
12:14:17 <elliott> 06:31:50: <kmc> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4382223/pure-functional-language-haskell oh man, Haskell question answered by Joel Spolsky
12:14:17 <elliott> surprisingly it's even basically correct
12:15:08 <elliott> despite all the people going "getChar is, like, referentially transparent so you're wrong" :|
12:16:59 <elliott> 06:48:16: <Mathnerd314> the universe is a functional programming language
12:16:59 <elliott> 06:48:39: <Mathnerd314> but it is so esoteric that only I know how to program it
12:17:03 <elliott> oh, good, he's still crazy!
12:24:53 <kmc> it's kind of correct
12:25:13 <kmc> i mean it's just arguing about what words mean
12:25:29 <kmc> but if you accept joel's definition than Haskell isn't a pure functional language
12:26:33 <elliott> well it has a pure subset, but I've never heard a convincing argument that haskell with IO is pure; people say that since getChar is always "the same getChar" it's referentially transparent, but nobody has a definition of "same" for IO actions
12:26:41 <kmc> i have one
12:26:45 <kmc> extensional equivalence
12:26:57 <kmc> there's no experiment by which you can distinguish "one getChar from another"
12:27:14 <kmc> anyway i don't want to argue about what "pure" means
12:27:21 <kmc> but evaluating getChar (like with seq) doesn't perform any IO
12:27:24 <kmc> that's just a fact
12:27:26 <elliott> that's a little lax for my tastes :P and yeah, I'm not saying it does
12:27:39 <kmc> elliott, it's the same standard by which you decide whether two functions are "the same"
12:27:49 <kmc> and if we can't do that, we can't even say that "map" is referentially transparent
12:27:50 <elliott> kmc: sure, but there /are/ experiments you can perform on functions
12:27:59 <kmc> there are experiments you can perform on IO actions too
12:28:05 <kmc> you do one every time you run a haskell program
12:28:19 <elliott> i see you're arguing about what "pure" means :P
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12:30:07 <kmc> Haskell has evaluation semantics and execution semantics
12:30:37 <kmc> the former is a calculus of referentially-transparent functions without side effects
12:30:52 <kmc> the latter is like an imperative programming language with effects and results
12:31:16 * elliott isn't up for arguing himself, but I *do* understand how IO works in Haskell and I don't think that it's "not really a monad" or "just impurity that you can't see" or whatever newbies say because of a lack of understanding
12:31:20 <kmc> whether the combination of these forms a "pure functional programming language" is a stupid argument
12:31:27 <kmc> i know you know how it works
12:31:29 <elliott> and I agree that treating (IO a) as a model of an imperative program with result type a is just fine
12:31:46 <elliott> I just think that it lets you consider far too many things that are completely impure in practice as pure
12:31:49 <elliott> because you can model them that way
12:33:07 <kmc> i don't understand
12:33:31 <kmc> but that's ok
12:33:40 <Ngevd> Are there any pure imperative languages?
12:33:47 <Ngevd> Would such thing have any point at all?
12:34:11 <kmc> it sounds like a great excuse to argue about what "pure" and "imperative" mean
12:34:36 <kmc> if you pressed me for a yes/no answer on "pure" and "imperative" I would say that Haskell is both
12:34:43 <kmc> this may be an unpopular viewpoint
12:35:54 <kmc> i think it's the wrong focus if you want to understand haskell or why it's good
12:36:11 <elliott> I think it's much easier to agree on "Haskell code that does IO is too imperative and impure in style" than "Haskell is impure"
12:36:23 <kmc> "too imperative" by what standard
12:36:54 <Ngevd> A little impurity is good for a language
12:36:56 <elliott> i.e. it would be nicer if we could write code that interacts with the outside world in a more functional style
12:37:18 <Ngevd> How would that work?
12:37:19 <kmc> i would say "declarative" rather than "functional"
12:37:32 <elliott> kmc: yes. others would say "denotational" :P
12:37:46 <kmc> Ngevd, well, a very simple example is interact :: (String -> String) -> IO ()
12:37:48 <elliott> but the basic sentiment is the same
12:38:12 <kmc> i like declarative programming and it would be cool to use it in more areas
12:38:31 <kmc> at the same time, i find imperative programming in Haskell to be pleasant enough
12:38:56 <elliott> I mean, don't get me wrong -- Haskell's IO system is a good compromise and it's much more "crisply" defined than in most other languages
12:39:24 <elliott> but it definitely bugs me to see people say "haskell is like the purest language ever and if you think IO is in any way imperative or 'impure in style' or anything you're just an idiot"
12:39:27 <elliott> (ok, not in those words :P)
12:39:59 <Ngevd> Purest language ever... surely that would be a tie between a few esolangs?
12:40:11 <kmc> i think it's pretty much agreed that IO is an embedded imperative language
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12:40:20 <kmc> whether this makes Haskell overall "impure" is a meaningless argument about definitions
12:40:30 <Ngevd> Also, how can we say that language a is more or less pure than language b?
12:40:46 <Ngevd> Which is more pure? Java or C++?
12:40:49 <elliott> kmc: I think it's agreed in #haskell, but I don't think that's the same thing as "agreed by people who call themselves haskell programmers on the wider internet" :p
12:41:18 <kmc> to me Haskell is a pragmatic multiparadigm language with a good set of design tradeoffs
12:41:31 <kmc> so i don't focus on ideological purity
12:41:43 <elliott> I mean, I've seen at least one person in here and one person on SO yell loudly about how stupid the "action" terminology is because "you wouldn't call (Maybe a) an action and IO is, like, just as pure as the rest of the nomads"
12:41:52 <elliott> admittedly at least one of those people was dumb.
12:42:04 <kmc> that's stupid
12:42:12 <Ngevd> Nomads aren't pure.
12:42:14 <kmc> i wouldn't call (Maybe a) a list either, but [a] is
12:42:31 <elliott> kmc: well it was in reaction to saying "monadic actions" more generally
12:42:36 <elliott> and I think it's perfectly reasonable to call (Maybe a) an action
12:42:43 <kmc> i don't think it matters
12:42:53 <kmc> i think #haskell should agree on common terminology and push it
12:42:58 <kmc> instead we just bicker about words
12:43:12 <elliott> haha, getting a few hundred people to agree on IRC
12:43:27 <kmc> anyway the *reason* i don't worry about whether Haskell is philosophically pure
12:43:29 <Ngevd> I avoid #haskell, mainly because I'm scared of big groups
12:43:34 <kmc> is that i wish *other people* would see it as a pragmatic multiparadigm language with a good set of design tradeoffs
12:44:06 <kmc> rather than a language for extremists who argue all day about philosophical purity
12:44:09 <Ngevd> I would say it is at least primarily functional, although has features from other paradigms
12:44:47 <elliott> kmc: as an extremist i'm offended
12:44:54 <kmc> very well sir
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12:50:56 <kmc> in particular many of Haskell's strengths have nothing to do with "purity"
12:54:54 <kmc> in my "why learn Haskell" slides i talk only a little bit about "purity" and types
12:56:26 <kmc> i spend more time on stuff like EDSLs, lightweight concurrency, STM, semi-implicit parallelism, GHC
12:56:43 <elliott> Maybe purity is overrated but I don't think types are.
12:56:48 <kmc> QuickCheck, Criterion, Threadscope, other tools, etc.
12:57:04 * elliott doesn't think Haskell is very well-suited to EDSLs... it excels at some of them but falls down for others
12:57:47 <kmc> some of those features rely on purity, in the sense of "Haskell programmers tend to write lots of pure functions", not in the sense of "Haskell absolutely forbids you from writing an impure function"
12:57:55 <kmc> (which of course, common implementations don't)
12:58:58 <kmc> elliott, yeah, types are pretty important
12:59:05 <kmc> but it's hard to convince someone of that in a few slides
12:59:22 * elliott doesn't try to convince people of things in a few slides :)
12:59:38 <kmc> i do, and I was talking about one effort to do so
13:00:02 <elliott> I agree that things like you listed are better sells under such constraints.
13:00:02 <kmc> in the best case, you convince them that it's a useful feature for preventing mistakes
13:00:05 <kmc> which is... still not that sexy
13:00:21 <kmc> i mean, subconsciously I know that *I* don't make any mistakes
13:00:47 <elliott> Yeah, but think about all the other terrible programmers you have to deal with!
13:00:54 <elliott> See, we can sell Haskell on antagonism and ego.
13:00:54 <kmc> they probably aren't using haskell
13:01:53 <kmc> anyway there was enough to fill an hour with "here's this amazing thing Haskell lets you do"
13:02:17 <kmc> that I didn't have to focus too much on the essentially negative "here's how Haskell protects you from the stupidity of yourself and others"
13:02:28 <kmc> i agree it's not a great EDSL host
13:02:42 <kmc> i think it's a pretty good EDSL host, and that this plays nicely with the other strengths of the language
13:02:54 <elliott> "The question is a simple one. Must all operations on a TVar happen
13:02:54 <elliott> within *the same* atomically block, or am I am I guaranteed thread
13:02:54 <elliott> safety if, say, I have a number of atomically blocks in an IO
13:03:01 <kmc> i wish Template Haskell weren't so fucking cumbersome; then we could have some better concrete syntax for EDSLs
13:03:32 <kmc> tell them to read the last chapter of RWH
13:03:38 * elliott wants to live in a world where "atomically" means "atomicallyAndThenSome", and the layout of code into "IO functions" affects its semantics.
13:03:43 <elliott> kmc: I'd have to subscribe to haskell-cafe.
13:03:55 <kmc> instead you just lurk and snark
13:04:06 <kmc> that's cool
13:04:27 <elliott> kmc: I think the kind of EDSLs Haskell is good at are the ones that are richer than Haskell.
13:04:35 <elliott> Which is to say "first-class" EDSLs.
13:04:50 <elliott> The problems come when you can't embed Haskell in them, e.g. anything you're trying to compile
13:05:32 <elliott> And then you just have to fall back on ugly typeclass hacks and in the end you get sick of Eq because it forces (==) to mean something rather than letting you use any "boolean" you want :P
13:05:52 <kmc> this would be solvable in principle
13:06:22 * elliott thinks there are a few promising ways to solve it, and I think solving it would be a great way to create a language better than Haskell.
13:06:52 <elliott> There's a *lot* of this kind of stuff being done -- anything that does observable sharing is essentially working around Haskell's DSL-related weaknesses, for example.
13:07:10 <kmc> well first you want to unify something like Template Haskell with something like GHC API, only hopefully make both of them a lot less shitty
13:07:45 * elliott thinks that would be very (very) valuable, but isn't sure it's the best basis for most EDSLs
13:07:49 <kmc> that is, you can construct a Haskell AST, then compile it and use it as a function
13:07:52 <elliott> metaprogramming in haskell sucks right now
13:08:14 <kmc> and you can do this at "compile time" or at "run time", and hopefully the distinction between the two is not so pronounced
13:08:29 <elliott> kmc: Have you seen the http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~megacz/garrows/ stuff?
13:08:40 <kmc> uh, started reading it a while ago
13:08:43 <kmc> didn't get very far
13:08:49 <elliott> I don't like arrows, but it's very interesting.
13:09:08 <elliott> And seems to be able to do an awful lot of DSL-y stuff that isn't really possible now.
13:09:17 <elliott> The syntax is ugly though.
13:09:58 <kmc> they get bonus style points for implementing part of GHC in Coq
13:10:27 <elliott> I'm always surprised that Coq extraction actually works in practice.
13:11:14 <kmc> elliott, so how would you solve the problem
13:11:27 <kmc> other than better macros and staged compilation
13:14:34 <elliott> kmc: Well, I think it involves restructuring the language at a bit of a deeper level to be truly natural. Things like using typeclasses for the kind of introspective overloading you see is basically just trying to selectively override the language's semantics, which is generally really awkward in Haskell. (The AwesomePrelude thing takes this to its logical conclusion, and it's not pretty.) I can imagine a language which essentially does the equiv
13:14:35 <elliott> alent of having a typeclass for each language feature -- conditionals, pattern-matching, self-reference, duplicating values, etc. -- and you can override that piecemeal so that all the same syntax and meaning is retained, but in possibly a more restricted setting; you'd have a bracket mechanism which would let you write code in a new semantics. That's basically what the generalised arrow stuff is doing, to my understanding; there's a typeclass fo
13:14:35 <elliott> r each additional language feature, and the code you write is just unrolled into a bunch of those.
13:15:06 <kmc> i should learn more about garrows then
13:15:17 <elliott> If you want to be *really* radical, you could eliminate the bracketing entirely, and direct the overriding of the semantics by the types -- i.e. if something is expecting an argument in a certain semantics, those semantics are used when you fill in that argument.
13:16:30 <elliott> kmc: That also ties in with more language-based support for effects; e.g. you could easily define a semantics that supports every such "language ability" but that does nondeterministic computation, and you'd get the equivalent of the list monad but with the same syntax as the outer language.
13:17:26 * elliott hasn't read all of the GArrows stuff, but intends to sometime. What I've read is basically similar to all this, except that it's very explicit about what's "metaprogramming" and what's not -- there's a leap from "normal Haskell" to "metaprogramming stuff".
13:18:24 <elliott> kmc: And, of course, opting out of implementing a certain capability lets you do things like the kind of optimisations you can do to applicative/arrow-based parsers.
13:18:41 <elliott> Except more aggressive, since you have full access to the *entire* structure of the EDSL program.
13:18:53 <elliott> (Nothing hiding behind an "arr", etc.)
13:20:34 <elliott> It wouldn't even be a large leap from that to make the language self-extending on an even deeper level -- if you can define your own language capabilities (and I don't see what would stop you, if everything was appropriately first-class -- indeed, I'd expect most extensions (like nondeterministic computation) would be implemented by defining a new capability for that, and giving a canonical implementation), then all you need to be able to do is d
13:20:34 <elliott> efine new syntax for those capabilities and it becomes as good as a native language feature.
13:20:40 <elliott> That might be going further down the Lisp path than most people would like, though.
13:21:20 <kmc> there's already controversy over "how typed" template haskell should be
13:22:18 <elliott> I think the proposal to give it a typed layer, but allow access to just AST-mangling, is probably the best thing for it as it stands
13:22:53 <elliott> but I think that in a more ideal language, TH would be basically completely untyped, because well-typed things would be expressible directly, without having to resort to a special "metaprogramming macro processing" facility
13:34:24 <kmc> makes sense
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13:53:43 <elliott> Need help indexing XML files into Solr using DataImportHandler
13:53:44 <elliott> I don't know java, I don't know XML, and I don't know Lucene. Now that that's out of the way. I have been working to create a little project using apache solr/lucene. My problem is that I am unable to index the xml files.
13:53:55 <elliott> [...] I am not sure what information is required for you to help me so I will just post the code.
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15:03:58 <kmc> eek a zombie
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15:08:53 <Ngevd> How did your Haskell thing-that's-a-bit-like-an-argument-but-you-both-agree go?
15:09:18 <kmc> i think that's called a "discussion"
15:09:39 <kmc> anyway the logs are public
15:09:48 <Ngevd> I know, I've read them.
15:09:56 <Ngevd> I just want to make conversation
15:12:47 <Ngevd> > ap (.) (join (.) (ap (.) (join (.)))) (*2) 1
15:13:23 <Ngevd> > ap (.) (join (.) (ap (.) (join (.)))) (join (+)) 1
15:14:06 <elliott> this is probably what Ngevd's new haskell program actually looks like
15:14:28 <Ngevd> Nah, I'm just playing with MIBBLLII
15:14:55 <Ngevd> Lambdabot can be used as a non-compliant interpreter for a similar language to MIBBLLII
15:18:01 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b
15:18:01 <lambdabot> Probable cause: `id' is applied to too few arguments
15:18:01 <lambdabot> In the second argument of `ap', namely `id'
15:18:11 <kmc> an esolang that looks like brainfuck but isn't
15:18:27 <kmc> compared to the usual esolangs that don't look like brainfuck but are
15:18:47 <Ngevd> The functions ap, join, const, id, flip, and (.) match up 1 to 1 with MIBBLLII combinators
15:19:07 <Ngevd> As long as you work in the ... (->) r monad ???
15:19:07 <elliott> kmc: Or the ones that look like, and are brainfuck.
15:19:47 <Ngevd> As long as you have Control.Monad and Control.Monad.Instances
15:19:51 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Zoo_Tycoon_2_Cheats_Money
15:20:13 <Ngevd> Have spambots been attacking spam articles?
15:20:56 <kmc> i would totally use a language named Zoo Tycoon 2 Cheats Money
15:21:41 <Ngevd> Shall we create a language by that name?
15:22:31 <Ngevd> Zoo == objects, tycoon == control structures, 2 == ...arithmetic?, cheats == functions./subroutines
15:22:40 <Ngevd> money == finance library?
15:23:09 <kmc> it will be brainfuck except the instructions are encoded as the phrases "Wikipedia", "game money prize tree", "free money woman", "money and mbti", "trace a money order", "europes history on money", "find instantly low money price search", and "how much money to bring to europe"
15:26:55 <kmc> actually you should invent a language such that we can execute these spam pages
15:27:17 <kmc> has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people
15:27:28 <kmc> i guess there are PLs for children, and that's kind of similar
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16:01:13 <oklopol> asldkfjaksdlfldskjakdlfldskjaksldfldksjaksdlf
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17:20:09 <itidus21> the way i see it the main role of mathematics in esolang design is to provide the language designer with a look at the primitive elements of programming languages instead of making a hopped up basic clone
17:25:59 <itidus21> more accurately, thats what it means to me
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17:29:01 <elliott> Phantom_Vax: Please tell me you're using an OpenVMS emulator.
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17:36:07 <itidus21> elliott: i'm concocting a diabolical language possibly using some kind of message passing, but since i don't know in detail what message passing is i'm not entirely sure
17:37:20 <itidus21> the idea is really terrible, and "concocting a language" said in this room can mean something other than what i am doing since people here tend to actually create and finish languages and i don't
17:38:40 <itidus21> actually its such a terrible idea that it just might work, but i have left little to go on in my posts
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17:44:08 <itidus21> ok the fundamental idea is an operator which can tell you if an object has a member of a specific type, and if it does you can access it directly through a local name
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17:45:05 <itidus21> sort of like saying, does this object contain a string member? if it does then call that string s and do toupper(s)
17:46:06 <itidus21> this could run into some kind of trouble when an object has multiple members of the same type but thats another story
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17:48:51 <itidus21> if that sounds weird, the idea gets even weirder the more i explore it
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18:30:17 <zzo38> I wrote some of my own Arrows stuff because I don't like the existing one much. The purpose of "arr" is moved into a different class called CatFunctor and you can have from any category, doesn't have to be (->) and in addition, the (,) does not have to be (,) you can have any type of kind (* -> * -> *) used for a specific CatArrow. Purpose of ArrowChoice is just done by a dual category, now.
18:32:59 <Sgeo> Is there a way to abuse a monad of some sort to get nice syntax without -XArrows?
18:34:05 <Sgeo> There's a "bind-like operator"
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18:35:16 <Sgeo> I could have sworn I saw something though
18:36:43 <zzo38> Do you agree that "arr" in Control.Arrow is really a kind of functor (not an endofunctor)?
18:37:36 * Sgeo has no idea what the difference is
18:38:41 <zzo38> Difference of what?
18:38:58 <Sgeo> functors and endofunctors
18:39:23 <kallisti> endofunctor is a functor from a category to itself.
18:39:25 <zzo38> Endofunctor is a functor from a category to itself. The Functor class in Haskell make endofunctor from (->) category to itself
18:39:55 <kallisti> functors are comparable to morphisms over categories.
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18:40:17 <kallisti> (in fact I believe many of them are morphisms in the category of small categories.)
18:41:18 <zzo38> Is Internet Quiz Engine good to you?
18:41:26 <zzo38> Yes it is legitimate.
18:43:11 <zzo38> But gopher://zzo38computer.foeug3g47fgeg34.ch3p-h4rbl-vjaagra.co.ng:22/../../warez2.php not only looks wrong, and uses . as the type, but doesn't even resolve. I am unsure why kmc posted this wrong URL, possibly to confuse you???
18:45:12 <HackEgo> toruk-mack: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
18:45:36 <elliott> @tell kmc Explain yourself!!!1
18:45:37 <zzo38> toruk-mack: Are you good at esolang?????
18:46:07 <kallisti> TG: (omg still lolig @ that word boner i made ooomg)
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18:48:14 <elliott> `@ past-toruk-mack ? esoteric
18:48:18 <HackEgo> past-toruk-mack: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
18:54:25 <Sgeo> They're still online
18:55:03 <zzo38> Yes I checked that too
18:55:11 <zzo38> But I have no message to write to them.
18:55:27 * Sgeo just sent "for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net."
18:56:07 <zzo38> Sgeo: It work if it was what they were looking for, which is possible, however
18:59:41 <Sgeo> Is DALnet down?
19:00:36 <zzo38> Did you try connecting or ping or whatever?
19:01:05 <zzo38> Yes it seem down to me.
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19:07:26 <kallisti> what would be annoying about only having gender neutral pronouns is that you could only refer to two things at the same time
19:07:44 <kallisti> in English you can refer to at least 4 things unambiguously via pronouns.
19:08:12 <kallisti> I suppose as a compromise would be to invent more than one gender-neutral pronoun
19:08:15 <kallisti> for different kinds of.. things.
19:08:31 <elliott> kallisti: That only works if the things you're referring to are of different genders.
19:08:46 <kallisti> elliott: ...yes, that's what I mean.
19:08:56 <elliott> Well, so it's not much of an advantage.
19:09:01 <elliott> Anyway, people don't seem to have any problem in languages which use "it" for everything.
19:09:11 <kallisti> the difference between it and he or she or they is pretty useful.
19:09:18 <elliott> Making pronouns gender-neutral only to immediately re-segregate them by some other means is ridiculous.
19:09:39 <elliott> kallisti: I mean, I really doubt you ever talk about that many things at once without using names.
19:09:45 <elliott> Because that would be impossible to follow.
19:10:39 <kallisti> and anyway there's no reason not to "resegregate" the pronouns by grammatical or conceptual distinctions
19:10:44 <kallisti> that have nothing to do with people.
19:11:29 <kallisti> for example you could have a pronoun for humans, and a pronoun for everything else
19:11:35 * elliott doesn't think it happens frequently enough.
19:11:36 <kallisti> a pronoun for livings things, and a pronoun for inanimate things.
19:11:47 <kallisti> "he knew that it was a bad idea"
19:11:49 <monqy> but what if you want to refer generally to both humans and nonhumans
19:11:54 <elliott> Anyway, there's real data on this, i.e. every language without such a distinction, so unless you're a linguist...
19:12:03 <kallisti> "she took it from me" (thieving bitch)
19:12:16 <zzo38> There can be one for living, one for inanimate, but then, is there going to be one for ideas?
19:12:30 <kallisti> elliott: note that I am not in any way saying that these languages are somehow crippled in their expressiveness
19:12:36 <kallisti> just that having multiple kinds of pronouns is a convenience.
19:12:52 <monqy> but also an inconvenience
19:13:10 <kallisti> zzo38: yes that would be good. :)
19:13:45 <elliott> i sure do love wild conjecture
19:13:53 <kallisti> elliott: do tell. what is my conjecture.
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19:15:41 <kallisti> anyway it happens all the time in storytelling. It's pretty frequent that you have a sentence involving a person and an inanimate that were both previously mentioned.
19:16:44 <elliott> And you think persons and inanimates are so easily-confusable that we cannot deduce that from context like the billion other things we do on a regular basis?
19:19:10 <kallisti> I simply assumed it was bad style in those languages to use the same pronoun in the same sentence to mean different things.
19:19:17 <kallisti> but if that's common then... that works too.
19:22:28 <kallisti> the person/non-person distinction isn't unheard of in other languages. For example Finnish.
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19:24:21 <elliott> kallisti: It doesn't appear in colloquial Finnish, from what I've heard in here.
19:24:29 <elliott> "it" is used for everything.
19:29:01 <kallisti> The demonstratives are used of non-human animate entities and inanimate objects. However, se and ne are often used to refer to humans in colloquial Finnish. (This usage is quite correct in a demonstrative sense, i.e. when qualified by the relative pronoun joka, and in fact it is hypercorrect to replace a demonstrative se or ne with hän or he just because the antecedent is human.)
19:32:12 <kallisti> well, zzo38 and I are going to go invent a language with at least 20 pronouns
19:33:47 <kallisti> and maybe some distinctions between pro-adjectives and pro-verbs and pro-adverbs
19:36:05 <kallisti> to get the other words, we'll take a dataset of every word in every language and its meaning, and then reassign it a different meaning using `words
19:36:49 <kallisti> the end result will be that there's probably like 50 ways to say "dog"
19:37:13 <kallisti> (assuming 50 languages were uses, and none of those languages have more than one way to say dog)
19:46:35 <kallisti> !perl $x = qr[(a)]g; print "a a a a" =~ $x;
19:46:39 <EgoBot> Bareword found where operator expected at /tmp/input.17425 line 1, near "qr[(a)]g" \ syntax error at /tmp/input.17425 line 1, near "qr[(a)]g" \ Execution of /tmp/input.17425 aborted due to compilation errors.
19:47:02 <kallisti> !perl $x = qr/(a)/g; print "a a a a" =~ $x;
19:47:02 <EgoBot> Bareword found where operator expected at /tmp/input.17496 line 1, near "qr/(a)/g" \ syntax error at /tmp/input.17496 line 1, near "qr/(a)/g" \ Execution of /tmp/input.17496 aborted due to compilation errors.
19:47:12 <kallisti> !perl $x = qr/(a)/; print "a a a a" =~ $x;
19:47:18 <kallisti> !perl $x = qr/(a)/; print "a a a a" =~ /$x/g;
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20:08:00 <kallisti> wow so I got $25 for setting up a simple HTML5 audio player, and then got $10 to write the ugly terrible hack to load an embedded player in the event of IE.
20:08:04 <kallisti> what's wrong with this picture.
20:08:19 <elliott> "some one always irritate me an facebook massage, he use mobile for post massage. i want to know his mobile no, is there any way ?" what a good answer
20:08:37 <monqy> kallisti: web audio players
20:09:53 <HackEgo> 459) <fizzie> elliott: You have become the very thing you fought for!
20:10:22 <kallisti> elliott: what is meaning of that massage.
20:13:35 <Sgeo> IE doesn't support <audio>?
20:15:16 <kallisti> and a lot of people still use IE8
20:15:40 <kallisti> fortunately the entire internet will break for them soon and they'll realize they need a newer web browser.
20:15:43 <Sgeo> IE9 isn't even available for XP, right?
20:16:00 <elliott> <kallisti> fortunately the entire internet will break for them soon and they'll realize they need a newer web browser.
20:16:01 <Sgeo> kallisti, we're just now finally killing off IE6, I think
20:16:05 <elliott> --people, about IE6, for about a decade
20:16:28 <kallisti> well, IE6 is /still/ used I think.
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20:17:25 <Sgeo> http://www.ie6countdown.com/
20:18:08 <itidus21> so charting out some ideas on paper it suddenly becomes obvious why state is a pain in the ass... since 2 objects which contain instances of each other end up with an infinite state
20:18:35 <kallisti> itidus21 is not a fan of cyclic linked lists.
20:19:04 <Sgeo> kallisti, cyclic trees?
20:19:08 <Sgeo> I guess it's possible
20:20:04 <itidus21> kallisti: well yeah if you use pointers you can just set a pointer to null and call it the end of the state
20:20:47 <Sgeo> itidus21, what language are you thinking in, exactly?
20:20:58 <monqy> the magical itidus21 nonlanguage
20:21:02 <kallisti> itidus21: most cyclic structures are implemented with pointers. Otherwise you would have a massive memory leak.
20:21:13 <kallisti> trying to copy the structures infinitely
20:21:49 <itidus21> the greater question is how would you initialize them
20:22:21 <kallisti> "initilization" is programmer-defined. they can choose to not have the inner-object as part of the initilization
20:22:27 <kallisti> you would initialize both objects
20:22:31 <kallisti> and link them together after the fact
20:22:58 <fizzie> Cyclic tree is the stupidest, since the definition of tree is "no cycles".
20:22:59 <monqy> alternatively you could think at a higher level of abstraction
20:23:04 <itidus21> but when each piece of data is a function then it never needs initialization
20:23:45 <monqy> and not need to worry about such awful details as initialization
20:23:54 <kallisti> monqy: I'm guessing itidus21 is somewhat familiar with C++
20:24:11 <elliott> fizzie: it's magic paradox tree
20:24:15 <itidus21> somewhat but you i don't know it very well
20:24:25 <itidus21> ^but you couldn't give me a salary for it
20:24:30 <itidus21> or.. even trust me with it :-s
20:26:06 <kallisti> itidus21: some clarifications: a) "stateless" languages can define cyclic data structures, so cyclicness has nothing to do with state b) cyclic structures are not inherently bad as you seemed to think.
20:26:57 <Sgeo> let ones = 1:ones in ones
20:28:39 <monqy> whats an ultra book
20:28:51 <monqy> are normal books not good enough???
20:29:07 <kallisti> as far as I can tell it's inbetween a netbook and a normal laptop
20:29:18 <kallisti> in terms of weight/size/performance
20:30:42 <oerjan> <elliott> hi oerjan <-- hi elliott
20:31:19 <itidus21> so if there was, in c++ ... class x { public: int a; x b; }; then you could end up with x x1; x1.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b[...]
20:31:19 <kallisti> <oerjan> <elliott> hi oerjan <-- hi elliott <-- hi oerjan
20:31:53 <kallisti> itidus21: in that case it would either have to terminate at some point or exhaust your memory
20:32:00 <itidus21> i think they don't allow you to do that
20:32:09 <kallisti> itidus21: if however you had a x *b as a field of x
20:32:27 <kallisti> then you could have x1->b->b->b[..]
20:32:42 <tswett> Whoa. Internal set theory is weird.
20:32:50 <kallisti> itidus21: yes I doubt it allows that because it can't determine the size of the struct. I think.
20:33:15 <tswett> It says, among other things, that out of all the natural numbers, only finitely many are actually defined by formulas.
20:33:20 <kallisti> itidus21: however a pointer is a fixed size, so pointers are fine.
20:34:10 <kallisti> a pointer is the size of a memory address in C++.
20:35:24 <kallisti> tswett: what about Peano arithmetic. is that not a formula that describes all the natural numbers?
20:35:38 <itidus21> ... class x { public: int a(void) { return 5;} x b; }; then it works
20:36:03 <tswett> It defines the *set* of all natural numbers. But IST is talking about individual natural numbers.
20:36:19 <tswett> I.e. there exist infinitely many naturals n such that there is no formula defining n.
20:36:24 <kallisti> tswett: that's a pretty arbitrary differences. but no, it doesn't mention individual numbers.
20:36:59 <kallisti> itidus21: how is that any difference
20:37:01 <oerjan> <kallisti> <oerjan> <elliott> hi oerjan <-- hi elliott <-- hi oerjan <-- hi kallisti
20:37:25 <itidus21> since the only data stored by each instance of x is another x
20:37:35 <kallisti> what is the size of x in memory?
20:37:49 <kallisti> how many bytes does an instance of type x occupy?
20:37:57 <lambdabot> newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) }
20:38:02 <itidus21> well.. in this case i am proposing that in a good language it could be 0
20:38:26 <monqy> talking about bites and syzes is making me saad
20:38:48 <kallisti> monqy: if only computers stored thingies
20:38:52 <kallisti> then we could just talk about thingies.
20:39:20 <monqy> yes i love thingies
20:40:10 <kallisti> itidus21: the normal way to do that would be to have x *b;
20:40:11 <itidus21> anyway this all became clear to me when i tried drawing down on paper all these things
20:40:25 <kallisti> itidus21: at which the type x contains however many bytes are needed to store a memory address.
20:41:42 <ais523> <spambot> Superior vomiting.
20:41:46 <monqy> itidus21: all became clear?
20:42:16 <itidus21> i drew up some simple tables of classes and objects
20:42:25 <oerjan> > do rec { x <- Just $ out y; y <- Just $ out x }; return x
20:42:27 <lambdabot> Couldn't match kind `* -> *' against `(* -> *) -> *'
20:42:37 <kallisti> itidus21: also higher-level language implementations would most likely implement cyclic data structures in the same (or a similar) way.
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20:43:05 <oerjan> > do rec { x <- Just $ In y; y <- Just $ In x }; return x
20:43:06 <lambdabot> Couldn't match kind `(* -> *) -> *' against `* -> *'
20:43:12 <monqy> itidus21: my question isn't about the method in which it became clear to you; it's about whether it really became clear at all, or if you're just delusional
20:43:25 <monqy> something like tthat
20:43:34 <kallisti> monqy: aren't we all delusional????
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20:43:59 <elliott> <ais523> <spambot> Superior vomiting.
20:44:10 <elliott> > > do { rec { x <- Just $ In y; y <- Just $ In x }; return x }
20:44:11 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `>'
20:44:13 <elliott> > do { rec { x <- Just $ In y; y <- Just $ In x }; return x }
20:44:14 <lambdabot> Couldn't match kind `(* -> *) -> *' against `* -> *'
20:44:16 <kallisti> elliott: just what I was looking for.
20:44:24 <elliott> ais523: all my life i've been dealing with the side-effects of inferior vomiting
20:45:05 <itidus21> actually the real goal is looking for a language to remind me of super mario bros. 1
20:45:28 <ais523> itidus21: I'm pretty sure someone's already made an esolang along those lines
20:45:57 <kallisti> does a good "themed language" exist?
20:46:05 <itidus21> i feel like a smart ass saying "along which lines?"
20:46:19 <itidus21> but maybe super mario bros. means something unique to me
20:46:21 <kallisti> "are you as white or as black as you think you are?" -- guy on CNN
20:46:54 <kallisti> itidus21: for me super mario bros. means dungeons and dragons.
20:47:24 <oerjan> ok, it _does_ have rec notation
20:47:27 <itidus21> one thing about super mario bros. which really impresses me is that when the game does something it's not supposed to, it handles whatever data it runs into and still manages to turn that data into playable levels
20:47:46 <elliott> :t do { rec { x <- Just $ In y; y <- Just $ In x }; return x }
20:47:47 <lambdabot> Couldn't match kind `(* -> *) -> *' against `* -> *'
20:47:47 <lambdabot> When matching the kinds of `Mu :: (* -> *) -> *' and `f :: * -> *'
20:48:39 <itidus21> most games do something wrong and they're like.. crash! ... but super mario bros. drums to a different beat.. and it just throws a new level at you such as the infamous minus world
20:48:43 <kallisti> itidus21: when's the last time you wrote a program?
20:48:45 <oerjan> > do rec { x <- Just (1,In y); y <- Just (2,In x) }; return x
20:49:02 <elliott> > do rec { x <- Just (1,In y); y <- Just (2,In x) }; return x
20:49:04 <lambdabot> Just (1,In (2,In (1,In (2,In (1,In (2,In (1,In (2,In (1,In (2,In (1,In (2,I...
20:49:18 <elliott> oerjan: (hm why _did_ your original one fail)
20:49:32 <itidus21> kallisti: probably a brainfuck cat program
20:49:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:49:58 <oerjan> elliott: there was no actual f, the Just got taken out by the <-
20:50:51 <kallisti> elliott: in what situations does lazy input cause a memory leak?
20:50:58 <oerjan> so it was like Mu F with type F a = a
20:51:40 <elliott> kallisti: what do you mean by "memory leak"
20:52:42 <kallisti> in this case I don't know because the only thing I know about lazy input and memory leaks is that you told me that they can do that.
20:53:40 <Sgeo> I don't quite understand how rec works with IO
20:53:41 <kallisti> if it's some kind of technical distinction you're trying to make feel free to elucidate.
20:53:44 <elliott> i don't think i said "memory leak" directly
20:53:46 <Sgeo> Does it cause the IO to go into a loop?
20:53:56 <kallisti> well you said something like "memory can build up unexpectedly"
20:54:48 * elliott demands a quote of himself before continuing.
20:55:08 <kallisti> involving memory and lazy input
20:55:17 * kallisti decides to become more vague instead of taking the effort to find the quote.
20:56:03 <kallisti> why do I need to quote you exactly again?
20:56:16 <kallisti> you're practical a self-quoting machine. just quote yourself by speaking.
20:56:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:57:00 <kallisti> `log elliot.*bluh.*bluh.*lazy input.*bad
20:57:21 <HackEgo> 2012-01-14.txt:20:57:00: <kallisti> `log elliot.*bluh.*bluh.*lazy input.*bad
20:57:45 <elliott> because i only like defending things actually relevant to my continued reputation of always being right :P
20:58:24 <oerjan> Sgeo: no. it creates dummy thunks for the identifiers which error out if they are accessed before the IO actions fill them in.
20:58:29 <kallisti> there is nothing being attacked to defend..../
20:58:49 <kallisti> I was just curious as to the specific mechanism by which lazy input can cause unexpected memory.... problems.
20:59:08 <oerjan> because of laziness, they can often be practically filled in before that happens.
20:59:14 <elliott> kallisti: the main problems with lazy input are resource alloaction; the handle is only closed when you reach the end of the string, so if you fail to force it all the way in a timely fashion (say because of a short-circuiting algorithm) that handle will _leak_. this also means that readFile "foo" >>= writeFile "foo" can never work
20:59:47 <elliott> space leaks basically result from the fact that it's hard to assure constant-space streaming IO type functionality, because the interface doesn't enforce it; you must avoid keeping a reference to earlier cells of the string, etc.
21:00:01 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Compose'
21:00:02 <elliott> of course the same issues exist with "pure" lists but they're not tied in with IO issues like lazy input is
21:00:34 <kallisti> elliott: how big of a deal is a leaked handle. what are the consequences.
21:00:39 <lambdabot> forall (m :: * -> *) a w. m (a, w) -> WriterT w m a
21:01:33 <kallisti> elliott: but yes I see the problem.
21:01:54 <elliott> as i said for one: "this also means that readFile "foo" >>= writeFile "foo" can never work"
21:01:59 <elliott> also, it's very easy to run out of available fds
21:02:10 <elliott> the naive implementation of multi-file wc with lazy IO does so, for instance
21:02:17 <elliott> which is one of the motivating examples oleg used for iteratees
21:02:57 <kallisti> lazy input would be fine though for applications that always read all of the data in a linear order without saving any chunk of it for later use. for example such robust demand intensive applications as: getContents >>= putStr
21:03:50 <kallisti> oh and it can't open too many fds
21:04:31 <oerjan> Sgeo: basically, rec only recurses on _values returned_, never on actions.
21:04:40 <kallisti> by "leaked handles" do you mean that the handle never gets closed and just sits there or do you mean a sudden profusion of handles are allocated in an increasing number.
21:04:56 <elliott> <kallisti> lazy input would be fine though
21:05:01 <kallisti> I suppose the former could easily cause the latter.
21:05:02 * Sgeo looks into Snap
21:05:09 <elliott> <kallisti> by "leaked handles" do you mean that the handle never gets closed and just sits there or do you mean a sudden profusion of handles are allocated in an increasing number.
21:05:10 <oerjan> (this should be true for any monad implementing it.)
21:05:13 <elliott> are you familiar with the definition of a leak?
21:05:30 <kallisti> elliott: I believe you forgot to quote the rest of that second to last quote
21:05:55 <kallisti> elliott: I'm familiar with the term of memory in general. I suppose with handles it's the same thing.
21:06:36 <kallisti> I'm not really sure I understand how readFile "foo" >>= writeFile "foo" leaks handles though.
21:07:21 <elliott> <kallisti> I'm not really sure I understand how readFile "foo" >>= writeFile "foo" leaks handles though.
21:07:26 <elliott> it just plain doesn't work.
21:07:46 <elliott> [elliott@dinky tmp]$ echo hi >fuck
21:07:46 <elliott> GHCi, version 7.0.3: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help
21:07:46 <elliott> Loading package ghc-prim ... linking ... done.
21:07:46 <elliott> Loading package integer-gmp ... linking ... done.
21:07:46 <elliott> Loading package base ... linking ... done.
21:07:48 <elliott> Loading package ffi-1.0 ... linking ... done.
21:07:50 <elliott> Prelude> readFile "fuck" >>= writeFile "fuck"
21:07:52 <elliott> *** Exception: fuck: openFile: resource busy (file is locked)
21:08:02 <elliott> this is because the handle is still open until the whole resulting string is forced
21:08:07 <elliott> so it cannot be opened for writing
21:08:08 <Sgeo> If readFile wasn't lazy, it would work, right?
21:08:17 <elliott> considering the topic is how lazy input breaks things
21:08:23 <Sgeo> :t Control.Exception.evaluate
21:08:46 <Sgeo> readFile "fuck" >>= evaluate >>= writeFile "fuck"?
21:08:57 <Sgeo> Wait, I don't think that works, does it?
21:09:54 <lambdabot> Control.DeepSeq force :: NFData a => a -> a
21:09:54 <lambdabot> Graphics.UI.GLUT.Initialization ForceDirectContext :: DirectRendering
21:09:54 <lambdabot> Graphics.UI.GLUT.Initialization ForceIndirectContext :: DirectRendering
21:10:33 <Sgeo> (looking at the documentation for force)
21:10:51 * kallisti doesn't really understand what lazy does.
21:11:21 <lambdabot> Debug.Trace trace :: String -> a -> a
21:11:21 <lambdabot> Debug.Trace traceShow :: Show a => a -> b -> b
21:11:24 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.ST.Lazy module Control.Monad.ST.Lazy
21:11:24 <lambdabot> Data.STRef.Lazy module Data.STRef.Lazy
21:11:24 <lambdabot> Control.Monad.ST.Lazy lazyToStrictST :: ST s a -> ST s a
21:11:32 <elliott> kallisti: It's just a compiler trick.
21:11:41 <elliott> lazy is strict in its argument but the compiler believes it's lazy.
21:11:47 <Sgeo> Oh, the function
21:11:55 <elliott> (Of course, it has to be strict in its argument, since it's semantically id.)
21:12:35 <kallisti> but now I'm not sure why you would want that.
21:13:15 <elliott> To stop the compiler doing things like reordering things.
21:14:56 <oerjan> <elliott> as in, ever. <-- what about with a named pipe? :D
21:15:28 <elliott> kallisti: (That works because, since pseq is lazy in its second argument (to the compiler), GHC obviously isn't allowed to force the second argument before the first, because what if it was _|_?.)
21:15:50 <elliott> (So it's guaranteed to stay like (seq a b) in that order.)
21:15:58 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:16:11 -!- primo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:16:56 <elliott> -- The reason for the strange "lazy" call is that
21:16:56 <elliott> -- it fools the compiler into thinking that pseq and par are non-strict in
21:16:56 <elliott> -- their second argument (even if it inlines pseq at the call site).
21:16:56 <elliott> -- If it thinks pseq is strict in "y", then it often evaluates
21:16:56 <elliott> -- "y" before "x", which is totally wrong.
21:17:45 <kallisti> so is $! implemented with seq or pseq. if seq often evaluates the second argument first it doesn't seem like you get much from it.
21:18:07 <kallisti> when used in the way that $! is used.
21:18:51 <elliott> kallisti: I don't see why, necessarily.
21:19:00 <elliott> If f is already strict then f $! x === f x, so...
21:19:16 <oerjan> kallisti: f $! x still forces x to be evaluated first if f is not obviously strict
21:19:18 <elliott> ...so, for ($!) to matter, f has to not inspect its argument.
21:19:24 <elliott> So whether x is forced before or after is irrelevant.
21:20:01 <elliott> Mostly you would use ($!) to do something like
21:20:06 <elliott> to stop a thunk lying around.
21:20:15 <elliott> And whether you force x "before" or after (Just x) is irrelevant, it gets de-thunked either way.
21:22:05 <kallisti> why does GHC.Exts have so many weird things.
21:22:53 <elliott> kallisti: Because GHC uses them, one presumes.
21:23:01 <oerjan> kallisti: build is for list fusion
21:23:08 <kallisti> the basically errors if the list isn't full of identical elements.
21:23:10 <elliott> -- | 'the' ensures that all the elements of the list are identical
21:23:10 <elliott> -- and then returns that unique element
21:23:11 <elliott> | otherwise = error "GHC.Exts.the: non-identical elements"
21:23:13 <elliott> the [] = error "GHC.Exts.the: empty list"
21:23:17 <elliott> -- | The 'Down' type allows you to reverse sort order conveniently. A value of type
21:23:18 <kallisti> oerjan: I was getting an idea for what it does exactly.
21:23:19 <elliott> -- @'Down' a@ contains a value of type @a@ (represented as @'Down' a@).
21:23:21 <elliott> -- If @a@ has an @'Ord'@ instance associated with it then comparing two
21:23:23 <elliott> -- values thus wrapped will give you the opposite of their normal sort order.
21:23:25 <elliott> -- This is particularly useful when sorting in generalised list comprehensions,
21:23:27 <elliott> -- as in: @then sortWith by 'Down' x@
21:23:29 <elliott> newtype Down a = Down a deriving (Eq)
21:23:31 <elliott> instance Ord a => Ord (Down a) where
21:23:33 <elliott> compare (Down x) (Down y) = y `compare` x
21:23:35 <elliott> I'm pretty sure this stuff is just "things used in GHC that we can't think of a good place for and don't want to pollute the library namespace with".
21:24:08 <elliott> Actually the Down stuff looks to be intended for user code.
21:24:47 <kallisti> zzo38: why only three spaces sir?
21:25:08 <zzo38> There are various things that will reverse, such as reversing ordering, monoid, category, applicative, etc
21:25:10 <monqy> looks more like 2 to me
21:25:52 <oerjan> monoid already has the Dual type
21:26:09 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, it does have.
21:26:22 <zzo38> For category and applicative, I have made up types for reversing them.
21:28:17 <kallisti> GHC gives you a lot of ways to say id.
21:28:21 <zzo38> Alternative and MonadPlus classes can also be reversed
21:29:30 <kallisti> -- XXX This should really be in Data.Tuple, where the definitions are
21:30:00 <monqy> 62-tuples, my favourite
21:30:21 <oerjan> kallisti: iirc Data.Tuple contains a comment to the effect that adding one more size causes a crash
21:32:46 <kallisti> > text '(' : replicate 61 ',' ++ ")"
21:32:47 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
21:33:01 <kallisti> > text '(' : (replicate 61 ',' ++ ")")
21:33:02 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
21:33:09 <kallisti> > text $ '(' : (replicate 61 ',' ++ ")")
21:33:10 <lambdabot> (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:33:28 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:33:29 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:33:29 <lambdabot> t63. a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -> p -> q -> r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 -> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 -> t35 -> t36 ->
21:33:29 <lambdabot> t37 -> t38 -> t39 -> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> t43 -> t44 -> t45 -> t46 -> t47 -> t48 -> t49 -> t50 -> t51 -> t52 -> t53 -> t54 -> t55 -> t56 -> t57 -> t58 -> t59 -> t60 -> t61 -> t62 -> t63 -> (a, b, c,
21:33:29 <lambdabot> d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, t28, t29, t30, t31, t32, t33, t34, t35, t36, t37, t38, t39, t40, t41, t42, t43, t44, t45, t46, t47, t48, t49, t50, t51, t52, t53,
21:33:29 <lambdabot> t54, t55, t56, t57, t58, t59, t60, t61, t62, t63)
21:33:57 <monqy> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:33:58 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:33:58 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66. a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -> p -> q -> r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 -> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 ->
21:33:58 <lambdabot> t35 -> t36 -> t37 -> t38 -> t39 -> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> t43 -> t44 -> t45 -> t46 -> t47 -> t48 -> t49 -> t50 -> t51 -> t52 -> t53 -> t54 -> t55 -> t56 -> t57 -> t58 -> t59 -> t60 -> t61 -> t62 ->
21:33:58 <lambdabot> t63 -> t64 -> t65 -> t66 -> (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, t28, t29, t30, t31, t32, t33, t34, t35, t36, t37, t38, t39, t40, t41, t42, t43, t44, t45,
21:33:58 <lambdabot> t46, t47, t48, t49, t50, t51, t52, t53, t54, t55, t56, t57, t58, t59, t60, t61, t62, t63, t64, t65, t66)
21:34:04 <elliott> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
21:34:09 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:34:10 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:34:10 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93. a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o ->
21:34:10 <lambdabot> p -> q -> r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 -> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 -> t35 -> t36 -> t37 -> t38 -> t39 -> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> t43 -> t44 -> t45 -> t46 -> t47 ->
21:34:10 <lambdabot> t48 -> t49 -> t50 -> t51 -> t52 -> t53 -> t54 -> t55 -> t56 -> t57 -> t58 -> t59 -> t60 -> t61 -> t62 -> t63 -> t64 -> t65 -> t66 -> t67 -> t68 -> t69 -> t70 -> t71 -> t72 -> t73 -> t74 -> t75 ->
21:34:10 <lambdabot> t76 -> t77 -> t78 -> t79 -> t80 -> t81 -> t82 -> t83 -> t84 -> t85 -> t86 -> t87 -> t88 -> t89 -> t90 -> t91 -> t92 -> t93 -> (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x,
21:34:12 <lambdabot> y, z, t28, t29, t30, t31, t32, t33, t34, t35, t36, t37, t38, t39, t40, t41, t42, t43, t44, t45, t46, t47, t48, t49, t50, t51, t52, t53, t54, t55, t56, t57, t58, t59, t60, t61, t62, t63, t64, t65,
21:34:14 <lambdabot> t66, t67, t68, t69, t70, t71, t72, t73, t74, t75, t76, t77, t78, t79, t80, t81, t82, t83, t84, t85, t86, t87, t88, t89, t90, t91, t92, t93)
21:34:15 <elliott> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
21:34:24 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:34:25 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:34:25 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
21:34:25 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
21:34:25 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184. a -> b -> c -> d -
21:34:25 <lambdabot> > e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -> p -> q -> r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 -> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 -> t35 -> t36 -> t37 -> t38 -> t39 ->
21:34:30 <elliott> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
21:34:31 <lambdabot> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> t43 -> t44 -> t45 -> t46 -> t47 -> t48 -> t49 -> t50 -> t51 -> t52 -> t53 -> t54 -> t55 -> t56 -> t57 -> t58 -> t59 -> t60 -> t61 -> t62 -> t63 -> t64 -> t65 -> t66 -> t67 ->
21:34:31 <lambdabot> t68 -> t69 -> t70 -> t71 -> t72 -> t73 -> t74 -> t75 -> t76 -> t77 -> t78 -> t79 -> t80 -> t81 -> t82 -> t83 -> t84 -> t85 -> t86 -> t87 -> t88 -> t89 -> t90 -> t91 -> t92 -> t93 -> t94 -> t95 ->
21:34:33 <lambdabot> t96 -> t97 -> t98 -> t99 -> t100 -> t101 -> t102 -> t103 -> t104 -> t105 -> t106 -> t107 -> t108 -> t109 -> t110 -> t111 -> t112 -> t113 -> t114 -> t115 -> t116 -> t117 -> t118 -> t119 -> t120 ->
21:34:35 <lambdabot> t121 -> t122 -> t123 -> t124 -> t125 -> t126 -> t127 -> t128 -> t129 -> t130 -> t131 -> t132 -> t133 -> t134 -> t135 -> t136 -> t137 -> t138 -> t139 -> t140 -> t141 -> t142 -> t143 -> t144 -> t145 ->
21:34:37 <lambdabot> t146 -> t147 -> t148 -> t149 -> t150 -> t151 -> t152 -> t153 -> t154 -> t155 -> t156 -> t157 -> t158 -> t159 -> t160 -> t161 -> t162 -> t163 -> t164 -> t165 -> t166 -> t167 -> t168 -> t169 -> t170 -
21:34:41 <elliott> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
21:34:42 <lambdabot> > t171 -> t172 -> t173 -> t174 -> t175 -> t176 -> t177 -> t178 -> t179 -> t180 -> t181 -> t182 -> t183 -> t184 -> (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, t28,
21:34:43 <lambdabot> t29, t30, t31, t32, t33, t34, t35, t36, t37, t38, t39, t40, t41, t42, t43, t44, t45, t46, t47, t48, t49, t50, t51, t52, t53, t54, t55, t56, t57, t58, t59, t60, t61, t62, t63, t64, t65, t66, t67, t68,
21:34:45 <lambdabot> t69, t70, t71, t72, t73, t74, t75, t76, t77, t78, t79, t80, t81, t82, t83, t84, t85, t86, t87, t88, t89, t90, t91, t92, t93, t94, t95, t96, t97, t98, t99, t100, t101, t102, t103, t104, t105, t106,
21:34:47 <lambdabot> t107, t108, t109, t110, t111, t112, t113, t114, t115, t116, t117, t118, t119, t120, t121, t122, t123, t124, t125, t126, t127, t128, t129, t130, t131, t132, t133, t134, t135, t136, t137, t138, t139,
21:34:49 <lambdabot> t140, t141, t142, t143, t144, t145, t146, t147, t148, t149, t150, t151, t152, t153, t154, t155, t156, t157, t158, t159, t160, t161, t162, t163, t164, t165, t166, t167, t168, t169, t170, t171, t172,
21:34:51 <lambdabot> t173, t174, t175, t176, t177, t178, t179, t180, t181, t182, t183, t184)
21:34:53 <elliott> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
21:34:59 <kallisti> does GHC have arbitrary tuple sizes now or something?
21:35:34 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:35:35 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:35:35 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
21:35:35 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
21:35:35 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184 t185 t186 t187
21:35:35 <lambdabot> t188 t189 t190 t191 t192 t193 t194 t195 t196 t197 t198 t199 t200 t201 t202 t203 t204 t205 t206 t207 t208 t209 t210 t211 t212 t213 t214 t215 t216 t217 t218 t219 t220 t221 t222 t223 t224 t225 t226
21:35:57 <lambdabot> t227 t228 t229 t230 t231 t232 t233 t234 t235 t236 t237 t238 t239 t240 t241 t242 t243 t244 t245 t246 t247 t248 t249 t250 t251 t252 t253 t254 t255 t256 t257 t258 t259 t260 t261 t262 t263 t264 t265
21:35:58 <lambdabot> t266 t267 t268 t269 t270 t271 t272 t273 t274 t275 t276 t277 t278 t279 t280 t281 t282 t283 t284 t285 t286 t287 t288 t289 t290 t291 t292 t293 t294 t295 t296 t297 t298 t299 t300 t301 t302 t303 t304
21:35:58 <lambdabot> t305 t306 t307 t308 t309 t310 t311 t312 t313 t314 t315 t316 t317 t318 t319 t320 t321 t322 t323 t324 t325 t326 t327. a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -> p -> q -
21:35:58 <lambdabot> > r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 -> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 -> t35 -> t36 -> t37 -> t38 -> t39 -> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> t43 -> t44 -> t45 -> t46 -> t47 -> t48 -> t49 -
21:35:58 <lambdabot> > t50 -> t51 -> t52 -> t53 -> t54 -> t55 -> t56 -> t57 -> t58 -> t59 -> t60 -> t61 -> t62 -> t63 -> t64 -> t65 -> t66 -> t67 -> t68 -> t69 -> t70 -> t71 -> t72 -> t73 -> t74 -> t75 -> t76 -> t77 ->
21:36:01 <lambdabot> t78 -> t79 -> t80 -> t81 -> t82 -> t83 -> t84 -> t85 -> t86 -> t87 -> t88 -> t89 -> t90 -> t91 -> t92 -> t93 -> t94 -> t95 -> t96 -> t97 -> t98 -> t99 -> t100 -> t101 -> t102 -> t103 -> t104 -> t105
21:36:03 <lambdabot> -> t106 -> t107 -> t108 -> t109 -> t110 -> t111 -> t112 -> t113 -> t114 -> t115 -> t116 -> t117 -> t118 -> t119 -> t120 -> t121 -> t122 -> t123 -> t124 -> t125 -> t126 -> t127 -> t128 -> t129 ->
21:36:05 <lambdabot> t130 -> t131 -> t132 -> t133 -> t134 -> t135 -> t136 -> t137 -> t138 -> t139 -> t140 -> t141 -> t142 -> t143 -> t144 -> t145 -> t146 -> t147 -> t148 -> t149 -> t150 -> t151 -> t152 -> t153 -> t154 ->
21:36:07 <lambdabot> t155 -> t156 -> t157 -> t158 -> t159 -> t160 -> t161 -> t162 -> t163 -> t164 -> t165 -> t166 -> t167 -> t168 -> t169 -> t170 -> t171 -> t172 -> t173 -> t174 -> t175 -> t176 -> t177 -> t178 -> t179 -
21:36:09 <lambdabot> > t180 -> t181 -> t182 -> t183 -> t184 -> t185 -> t186 -> t187 -> t188 -> t189 -> t190 -> t191 -> t192 -> t193 -> t194 -> t195 -> t196 -> t197 -> t198 -> t199 -> t200 -> t201 -> t202 -> t203 -> t204
21:36:13 <lambdabot> -> t205 -> t206 -> t207 -> t208 -> t209 -> t210 -> t211 -> t212 -> t213 -> t214 -> t215 -> t216 -> t217 -> t218 -> t219 -> t220 -> t221 -> t222 -> t223 -> t224 -> t225 -> t226 -> t227 -> t228 ->
21:36:15 <lambdabot> t229 -> t230 -> t231 -> t232 -> t233 -> t234 -> t235 -> t236 -> t237 -> t238 -> t239 -> t240 -> t241 -> t242 -> t243 -> t244 -> t245 -> t246 -> t247 -> t248 -> t249 -> t250 -> t251 -> t252 -> t253 ->
21:36:17 <lambdabot> t254 -> t255 -> t256 -> t257 -> t258 -> t259 -> t260 -> t261 -> t262 -> t263 -> t264 -> t265 -> t266 -> t267 -> t268 -> t269 -> t270 -> t271 -> t272 -> t273 -> t274 -> t275 -> t276 -> t277 -> t278 -
21:36:18 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:36:19 <lambdabot> > t279 -> t280 -> t281 -> t282 -> t283 -> t284 -> t285 -> t286 -> t287 -> t288 -> t289 -> t290 -> t291 -> t292 -> t293 -> t294 -> t295 -> t296 -> t297 -> t298 -> t299 -> t300 -> t301 -> t302 -> t303
21:36:21 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:36:23 <lambdabot> -> t304 -> t305 -> t306 -> t307 -> t308 -> t309 -> t310 -> t311 -> t312 -> t313 -> t314 -> t315 -> t316 -> t317 -> t318 -> t319 -> t320 -> t321 -> t322 -> t323 -> t324 -> t325 -> t326 -> t327 -> (a,
21:36:28 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:36:29 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:36:29 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
21:36:31 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
21:36:33 <monqy> wow if you do it in ghc each thingy goes on its own line
21:36:33 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184 t185 t186 t187
21:36:35 <lambdabot> t227 t228 t229 t230 t231 t232 t233 t234 t235 t236 t237 t238 t239 t240 t241 t242 t243 t244 t245 t246 t247 t248 t249 t250 t251 t252 t253 t254 t255 t256 t257 t258 t259 t260 t261 t262 t263 t264 t265
21:36:37 <lambdabot> t188 t189 t190 t191 t192 t193 t194 t195 t196 t197 t198 t199 t200 t201 t202 t203 t204 t205 t206 t207 t208 t209 t210 t211 t212 t213 t214 t215 t216 t217 t218 t219 t220 t221 t222 t223 t224 t225 t226
21:36:39 <lambdabot> t266 t267 t268 t269 t270 t271 t272 t273 t274 t275 t276 t277 t278 t279 t280 t281 t282 t283 t284 t285 t286 t287 t288 t289 t290 t291 t292 t293 t294 t295 t296 t297 t298 t299 t300 t301 t302 t303 t304
21:36:43 <monqy> if you do it in ghci each thingy goes on its own line it's amazing
21:36:43 <lambdabot> t305 t306 t307 t308 t309 t310 t311 t312 t313 t314 t315 t316 t317 t318 t319 t320 t321 t322 t323 t324 t325 t326 t327 t328 t329 t330 t331 t332 t333 t334 t335 t336 t337 t338 t339 t340 t341 t342 t343
21:36:44 <elliott> what a beautiful sea this is
21:36:45 <lambdabot> t344 t345 t346 t347 t348 t349 t350 t351 t352 t353 t354 t355 t356 t357 t358 t359 t360 t361 t362 t363 t364 t365 t366 t367 t368 t369 t370 t371 t372 t373 t374 t375 t376 t377 t378 t379 t380 t381 t382
21:36:47 <lambdabot> t383 t384 t385 t386 t387 t388 t389 t390 t391 t392 t393 t394 t395 t396 t397 t398 t399 t400 t401 t402 t403 t404. a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -> p -> q -> r -
21:36:49 <lambdabot> Plugin `more' failed with: thread killed
21:36:59 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:37:00 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:37:00 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
21:37:00 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
21:37:01 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184 t185 t186 t187
21:37:01 <lambdabot> t188 t189 t190 t191 t192 t193 t194 t195 t196 t197 t198 t199 t200 t201 t202 t203 t204 t205 t206 t207 t208 t209 t210 t211 t212 t213 t214 t215 t216 t217 t218 t219 t220 t221 t222 t223 t224 t225 t226
21:37:06 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:06 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:06 <elliott> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:37:07 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:07 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:12 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:13 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:14 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:14 <elliott> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:37:15 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:17 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:17 <elliott> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:37:18 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:18 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:19 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:19 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:20 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:24 <elliott> ,,,,,,,,,,)
21:37:24 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:25 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:26 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:27 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:27 <monqy> no,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:30 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:31 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:33 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:37:34 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:37:34 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
21:37:34 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
21:37:34 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184 t185 t186 t187
21:37:34 <lambdabot> t188 t189 t190 t191 t192 t193 t194 t195 t196 t197 t198 t199 t200 t201 t202 t203 t204 t205 t206 t207 t208 t209 t210 t211 t212 t213 t214 t215 t216 t217 t218 t219 t220 t221 t222 t223 t224 t225 t226
21:37:36 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:38 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:42 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:37:42 -!- Ngevd has joined.
21:37:42 <kallisti> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
21:37:43 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:37:43 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:37:45 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
21:37:47 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
21:37:49 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184 t185 t186 t187
21:37:51 <lambdabot> t227 t228 t229 t230 t231 t232 t233 t234 t235 t236 t237 t238 t239 t240 t241 t242 t243 t244 t245 t246 t247 t248 t249 t250 t251 t252 t253 t254 t255 t256 t257 t258 t259 t260 t261 t262 t263 t264 t265
21:37:53 <lambdabot> t188 t189 t190 t191 t192 t193 t194 t195 t196 t197 t198 t199 t200 t201 t202 t203 t204 t205 t206 t207 t208 t209 t210 t211 t212 t213 t214 t215 t216 t217 t218 t219 t220 t221 t222 t223 t224 t225 t226
21:37:55 <lambdabot> t266 t267 t268 t269 t270 t271 t272 t273 t274 t275 t276 t277 t278 t279 t280 t281 t282 t283 t284 t285 t286 t287 t288 t289 t290 t291 t292 t293 t294 t295 t296 t297 t298 t299 t300 t301 t302 t303 t304
21:37:59 <lambdabot> t305 t306 t307 t308 t309 t310 t311 t312 t313 t314 t315 t316 t317 t318 t319 t320 t321 t322 t323 t324 t325 t326 t327 t328 t329 t330 t331 t332 t333 t334 t335 t336 t337 t338 t339 t340 t341 t342 t343
21:38:01 <lambdabot> t344 t345 t346 t347 t348 t349 t350 t351 t352 t353 t354 t355 t356 t357 t358 t359 t360 t361 t362 t363 t364 t365 t366 t367 t368 t369 t370 t371 t372 t373 t374 t375 t376 t377 t378 t379 t380 t381 t382
21:38:03 <lambdabot> Plugin `more' failed with: thread killed
21:38:13 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:38:14 <lambdabot> forall a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z t28 t29 t30 t31 t32 t33 t34 t35 t36 t37 t38 t39 t40 t41 t42 t43 t44 t45 t46 t47 t48 t49 t50 t51 t52 t53 t54 t55 t56 t57 t58 t59 t60 t61 t62
21:38:15 <lambdabot> t63 t64 t65 t66 t67 t68 t69 t70 t71 t72 t73 t74 t75 t76 t77 t78 t79 t80 t81 t82 t83 t84 t85 t86 t87 t88 t89 t90 t91 t92 t93 t94 t95 t96 t97 t98 t99 t100 t101 t102 t103 t104 t105 t106 t107 t108 t109
21:38:15 <lambdabot> t110 t111 t112 t113 t114 t115 t116 t117 t118 t119 t120 t121 t122 t123 t124 t125 t126 t127 t128 t129 t130 t131 t132 t133 t134 t135 t136 t137 t138 t139 t140 t141 t142 t143 t144 t145 t146 t147 t148
21:38:15 <lambdabot> t149 t150 t151 t152 t153 t154 t155 t156 t157 t158 t159 t160 t161 t162 t163 t164 t165 t166 t167 t168 t169 t170 t171 t172 t173 t174 t175 t176 t177 t178 t179 t180 t181 t182 t183 t184 t185 t186 t187
21:38:15 <lambdabot> t188 t189 t190 t191 t192 t193 t194 t195 t196 t197 t198 t199 t200 t201 t202 t203 t204 t205 t206 t207 t208 t209 t210 t211 t212 t213 t214 t215 t216 t217 t218 t219 t220 t221 t222 t223 t224 t225 t226
21:38:20 <lambdabot> t227 t228 t229 t230 t231 t232 t233 t234 t235 t236 t237 t238 t239 t240 t241 t242 t243 t244 t245 t246 t247 t248 t249 t250 t251 t252 t253 t254 t255 t256 t257 t258 t259 t260 t261 t262 t263 t264 t265
21:38:21 <lambdabot> t266 t267 t268 t269 t270 t271 t272 t273 t274 t275 t276 t277 t278 t279 t280 t281 t282 t283 t284 t285 t286 t287 t288 t289 t290 t291 t292 t293 t294 t295 t296 t297 t298 t299 t300 t301 t302 t303 t304
21:38:22 <lambdabot> t305 t306 t307 t308 t309 t310 t311 t312 t313 t314 t315 t316 t317 t318 t319 t320 t321 t322 t323 t324 t325 t326 t327 t328 t329 t330 t331 t332 t333 t334 t335 t336 t337 t338 t339 t340 t341 t342 t343
21:38:24 <lambdabot> t344 t345 t346 t347 t348 t349 t350 t351 t352 t353 t354 t355 t356 t357 t358 t359 t360 t361 t362 t363 t364 t365 t366 t367 t368 t369 t370 t371 t372 t373 t374 t375 t376 t377 t378 t379 t380 t381 t382
21:38:26 <lambdabot> t383 t384 t385 t386 t387 t388 t389 t390 t391 t392 t393 t394 t395 t396 t397 t398 t399 t400 t401 t402 t403 t404 t405 t406 t407 t408 t409 t410 t411 t412 t413 t414 t415 t416 t417 t418 t419 t420 t421
21:38:30 <lambdabot> t422 t423 t424 t425 t426 t427 t428 t429 t430 t431 t432 t433 t434 t435 t436 t437 t438 t439 t440 t441 t442 t443 t444 t445 t446. a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -
21:38:32 <lambdabot> > p -> q -> r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 -> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 -> t35 -> t36 -> t37 -> t38 -> t39 -> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> t43 -> t44 -> t45 -> t46 -> t47 ->
21:38:34 <lambdabot> t48 -> t49 -> t50 -> t51 -> t52 -> t53 -> t54 -> t55 -> t56 -> t57 -> t58 -> t59 -> t60 -> t61 -> t62 -> t63 -> t64 -> t65 -> t66 -> t67 -> t68 -> t69 -> t70 -> t71 -> t72 -> t73 -> t74 -> t75 ->
21:38:36 <lambdabot> t76 -> t77 -> t78 -> t79 -> t80 -> t81 -> t82 -> t83 -> t84 -> t85 -> t86 -> t87 -> t88 -> t89 -> t90 -> t91 -> t92 -> t93 -> t94 -> t95 -> t96 -> t97 -> t98 -> t99 -> t100 -> t101 -> t102 -> t103 ->
21:38:38 <lambdabot> t104 -> t105 -> t106 -> t107 -> t108 -> t109 -> t110 -> t111 -> t112 -> t113 -> t114 -> t115 -> t116 -> t117 -> t118 -> t119 -> t120 -> t121 -> t122 -> t123 -> t124 -> t125 -> t126 -> t127 -> t128 -
21:38:42 <lambdabot> > t129 -> t130 -> t131 -> t132 -> t133 -> t134 -> t135 -> t136 -> t137 -> t138 -> t139 -> t140 -> t141 -> t142 -> t143 -> t144 -> t145 -> t146 -> t147 -> t148 -> t149 -> t150 -> t151 -> t152 -> t153
21:38:44 <lambdabot> -> t154 -> t155 -> t156 -> t157 -> t158 -> t159 -> t160 -> t161 -> t162 -> t163 -> t164 -> t165 -> t166 -> t167 -> t168 -> t169 -> t170 -> t171 -> t172 -> t173 -> t174 -> t175 -> t176 -> t177 ->
21:38:46 <lambdabot> t178 -> t179 -> t180 -> t181 -> t182 -> t183 -> t184 -> t185 -> t186 -> t187 -> t188 -> t189 -> t190 -> t191 -> t192 -> t193 -> t194 -> t195 -> t196 -> t197 -> t198 -> t199 -> t200 -> t201 -> t202 ->
21:38:48 <lambdabot> t203 -> t204 -> t205 -> t206 -> t207 -> t208 -> t209 -> t210 -> t211 -> t212 -> t213 -> t214 -> t215 -> t216 -> t217 -> t218 -> t219 -> t220 -> t221 -> t222 -> t223 -> t224 -> t225 -> t226 -> t227 -
21:38:50 <lambdabot> > t228 -> t229 -> t230 -> t231 -> t232 -> t233 -> t234 -> t235 -> t236 -> t237 -> t238 -> t239 -> t240 -> t241 -> t242 -> t243 -> t244 -> t245 -> t246 -> t247 -> t248 -> t249 -> t250 -> t251 -> t252
21:38:54 <lambdabot> -> t253 -> t254 -> t255 -> t256 -> t257 -> t258 -> t259 -> t260 -> t261 -> t262 -> t263 -> t264 -> t265 -> t266 -> t267 -> t268 -> t269 -> t270 -> t271 -> t272 -> t273 -> t274 -> t275 -> t276 ->
21:38:56 <lambdabot> t277 -> t278 -> t279 -> t280 -> t281 -> t282 -> t283 -> t284 -> t285 -> t286 -> t287 -> t288 -> t289 -> t290 -> t291 -> t292 -> t293 -> t294 -> t295 -> t296 -> t297 -> t298 -> t299 -> t300 -> t301 ->
21:38:58 <lambdabot> t302 -> t303 -> t304 -> t305 -> t306 -> t307 -> t308 -> t309 -> t310 -> t311 -> t312 -> t313 -> t314 -> t315 -> t316 -> t317 -> t318 -> t319 -> t320 -> t321 -> t322 -> t323 -> t324 -> t325 -> t326 -
21:39:00 <lambdabot> > t327 -> t328 -> t329 -> t330 -> t331 -> t332 -> t333 -> t334 -> t335 -> t336 -> t337 -> t338 -> t339 -> t340 -> t341 -> t342 -> t343 -> t344 -> t345 -> t346 -> t347 -> t348 -> t349 -> t350 -> t351
21:39:01 <Ngevd> `addquote <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> :(
21:39:02 <lambdabot> -> t352 -> t353 -> t354 -> t355 -> t356 -> t357 -> t358 -> t359 -> t360 -> t361 -> t362 -> t363 -> t364 -> t365 -> t366 -> t367 -> t368 -> t369 -> t370 -> t371 -> t372 -> t373 -> t374 -> t375 ->
21:39:04 <HackEgo> 803) <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> :(
21:39:06 <lambdabot> t376 -> t377 -> t378 -> t379 -> t380 -> t381 -> t382 -> t383 -> t384 -> t385 -> t386 -> t387 -> t388 -> t389 -> t390 -> t391 -> t392 -> t393 -> t394 -> t395 -> t396 -> t397 -> t398 -> t399 -> t400 ->
21:39:08 <lambdabot> t401 -> t402 -> t403 -> t404 -> t405 -> t406 -> t407 -> t408 -> t409 -> t410 -> t411 -> t412 -> t413 -> t414 -> t415 -> t416 -> t417 -> t418 -> t419 -> t420 -> t421 -> t422 -> t423 -> t424 -> t425 -
21:39:10 <lambdabot> > t426 -> t427 -> t428 -> t429 -> t430 -> t431 -> t432 -> t433 -> t434 -> t435 -> t436 -> t437 -> t438 -> t439 -> t440 -> t441 -> t442 -> t443 -> t444 -> t445 -> t446 -> (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i,
21:39:12 <lambdabot> j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, t28, t29, t30, t31, t32, t33, t34, t35, t36, t37, t38, t39, t40, t41, t42, t43, t44, t45, t46, t47, t48, t49, t50, t51, t52, t53, t54, t55, t56,
21:39:14 <lambdabot> t57, t58, t59, t60, t61, t62, t63, t64, t65, t66, t67, t68, t69, t70, t71, t72, t73, t74, t75, t76, t77, t78, t79, t80, t81, t82, t83, t84, t85, t86, t87, t88, t89, t90, t91, t92, t93, t94, t95, t96,
21:39:17 <elliott> Ngevd: u forgot the double space rule :'(
21:39:18 <lambdabot> t97, t98, t99, t100, t101, t102, t103, t104, t105, t106, t107, t108, t109, t110, t111, t112, t113, t114, t115, t116, t117, t118, t119, t120, t121, t122, t123, t124, t125, t126, t127, t128, t129,
21:39:20 <lambdabot> t130, t131, t132, t133, t134, t135, t136, t137, t138, t139, t140, t141, t142, t143, t144, t145, t146, t147, t148, t149, t150, t151, t152, t153, t154, t155, t156, t157, t158, t159, t160, t161, t162,
21:39:22 <lambdabot> t163, t164, t165, t166, t167, t168, t169, t170, t171, t172, t173, t174, t175, t176, t177, t178, t179, t180, t181, t182, t183, t184, t185, t186, t187, t188, t189, t190, t191, t192, t193, t194, t195,
21:39:24 <lambdabot> t196, t197, t198, t199, t200, t201, t202, t203, t204, t205, t206, t207, t208, t209, t210, t211, t212, t213, t214, t215, t216, t217, t218, t219, t220, t221, t222, t223, t224, t225, t226, t227, t228,
21:39:26 <lambdabot> t229, t230, t231, t232, t233, t234, t235, t236, t237, t238, t239, t240, t241, t242, t243, t244, t245, t246, t247, t248, t249, t250, t251, t252, t253, t254, t255, t256, t257, t258, t259, t260, t261,
21:39:30 <lambdabot> t262, t263, t264, t265, t266, t267, t268, t269, t270, t271, t272, t273, t274, t275, t276, t277, t278, t279, t280, t281, t282, t283, t284, t285, t286, t287, t288, t289, t290, t291, t292, t293, t294,
21:39:31 <HackEgo> *poof* <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> :(
21:39:32 <lambdabot> t295, t296, t297, t298, t299, t300, t301, t302, t303, t304, t305, t306, t307, t308, t309, t310, t311, t312, t313, t314, t315, t316, t317, t318, t319, t320, t321, t322, t323, t324, t325, t326, t327,
21:39:34 <lambdabot> t328, t329, t330, t331, t332, t333, t334, t335, t336, t337, t338, t339, t340, t341, t342, t343, t344, t345, t346, t347, t348, t349, t350, t351, t352, t353, t354, t355, t356, t357, t358, t359, t360,
21:39:36 <lambdabot> t361, t362, t363, t364, t365, t366, t367, t368, t369, t370, t371, t372, t373, t374, t375, t376, t377, t378, t379, t380, t381, t382, t383, t384, t385, t386, t387, t388, t389, t390, t391, t392, t393,
21:39:38 <lambdabot> t394, t395, t396, t397, t398, t399, t400, t401, t402, t403, t404, t405, t406, t407, t408, t409, t410, t411, t412, t413, t414, t415, t416, t417, t418, t419, t420, t421, t422, t423, t424, t425, t426,
21:39:40 <lambdabot> t427, t428, t429, t430, t431, t432, t433, t434, t435, t436, t437, t438, t439, t440, t441, t442, t443, t444, t445, t446)
21:40:16 <Ngevd> `addquote <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> :(
21:40:19 <HackEgo> 803) <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> :(
21:40:37 <Ngevd> 3 is greater than 2
21:40:55 <Ngevd> See, even lambdabot agrees with me
21:42:32 <oerjan> `run sed -i '803/ */ /g' quotes
21:42:36 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 4: unknown command: `/'
21:42:40 <oerjan> `run sed -i '803s/ */ /g' quotes
21:42:56 <HackEgo> 803) <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> @more <elliott> :(
21:44:31 <elliott> DEAR THREE PEOPLE UPVOTE ME PLEASE
21:44:43 <elliott> U ONLY HAVE 2 HOURS 36 MINUTES TO DO SO :(
21:45:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:45:20 <elliott> no not you that would be cheating
21:46:02 <Ngevd> But us 3 Hexhamers have got to stick together
21:46:10 <Ngevd> OTHERWISE THEY HAVE ALREADY WON
21:46:20 <Ngevd> THEY BEING PHANTOM_HOOVER, primarily.
21:46:35 <Ngevd> You, me, and facekicker
21:46:40 <Ngevd> But nobody likes facekicker
21:47:16 <oerjan> and phantoms cannot be kicked, anyway
21:48:09 <Ngevd> Also, I've written the beginnings of an implementation of a kind of combinatory logic program in Haskell
21:49:07 -!- oerjan has set topic: lambdabot crushes previous #esoteric spam record; ops "dare not kick it" | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:49:25 -!- oerjan has set topic: lambdabot crushes previous #esoteric spam record, ops "dare not kick it" | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:49:32 <Ngevd> http://hpaste.org/56454
21:49:49 <elliott> --eval does not detect endless loops!
21:49:53 <elliott> here i was expecting it to
21:50:10 <elliott> Ngevd: btw you might want to make step be
21:50:14 <elliott> Expression -> Maybe Expression
21:50:19 <elliott> using Nothing for the identity case
21:50:28 <elliott> because currently eval treats a terminated program and a one-step infinite loop as the same
21:50:33 <Ngevd> That comment was more of a "Taneb, you wrote this, dammit, don't be stupid"
21:51:20 <elliott> producing: eval a = maybe a eval (step a)
21:53:51 <kallisti> Ngevd: this is what I ended up doing with my LC evaluator
21:53:58 <oerjan> Ngevd: i think A could do with being renamed to an infixl operator constructor
21:54:01 <kallisti> the Nothing case was when a beta reduction couldn't be performed.
21:54:06 <elliott> it's not exactly an uncommon technique :P
22:00:18 <oerjan> 10:31:48: <HackEgo> 617) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 663) <shachaf> Real Tar is GNU tar. <shachaf> You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 701) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
22:00:25 <oerjan> 10:32:03: <shachaf> Those quotes are terrible.
22:00:48 <HackEgo> 7) <oerjan> what, you mean that wasn't your real name? <Warrigal> Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 17) <oerjan> ehird has gone insane, clearly. \ 19) <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \ 22) <oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste \ 23) IN AN
22:00:49 <oerjan> also that was longer than i thought
22:00:59 <shachaf> elliott: You're rank 31 on StackOverflow this month.
22:01:08 <HackEgo> 649) <Ngevd> Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love \ 655) [in the context of Open University] <Ngevd> "Unlike other operating systems, Linux operating systems use Linux" \ 658) <fungot> Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov \ 660) <Phantom__Hoover> Also you steal Berwick from us and then
22:01:18 <shachaf> I'd like to point out how there are 30 numbers that are smaller than 31.
22:01:35 <shachaf> Where "number" means "integer greater than 0", of course.
22:01:42 <oerjan> shachaf: excuse me, are you trying to get elliott to kill himself? that's a bannable offense, you know.
22:02:07 <shachaf> elliott: Did you know StackOverflow has non-Haskell-related questions?
22:02:07 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:02:14 <shachaf> Just imagine all those great C++ answers you could be writing!
22:02:41 <monqy> you could be getting
22:03:30 <Gregor> But C++ rep is dirty rep.
22:03:34 <Gregor> It'll make you feel unclean.
22:03:44 <shachaf> Also, you have a bunch of badges, but not a single one of them is a gold badge.
22:03:55 <oerjan> maybe there's an agda or coq section
22:03:58 <monqy> all the c++ badges
22:04:15 <itidus21> if c++ was good enough on it's own i think i never would have ended up in here
22:05:01 <oerjan> so you are saying it's good that c++ is bad?
22:05:39 <oerjan> otoh if c++ was good enough on it's own, this channel might actually use it for more stuff
22:05:40 <itidus21> it is necessary to have a 4 between 3 and 5 to keep them in their place
22:06:28 * oerjan recalls that 4 is the only non-prime exponent you need to check to prove fermat's last theorem
22:07:04 <monqy> itidus21: true wisdom
22:07:06 <oerjan> fermat did prove that one, at least
22:07:27 <oerjan> i think he did write up 3 and 4
22:07:42 <shachaf> IF C++ WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR FERMAT, IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME
22:07:49 <itidus21> monqy: such things depress me but oh well.. thats good too
22:07:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:08:09 <oerjan> if c++ had been around when fermat lived, would civilization have prospered this far?
22:08:13 <itidus21> a bit of sad gives purpose to the blues
22:08:21 <monqy> itidus21: must there exist something between 3 and 4
22:08:25 <monqy> itidus21: and between 4 and 5
22:08:42 -!- coppro has joined.
22:08:43 <elliott> OK only two more required.
22:08:55 <elliott> One per hour, I'm counting on you imaginary, non-present guys.
22:09:03 <elliott> <shachaf> elliott: Did you know StackOverflow has non-Haskell-related questions?
22:09:08 <elliott> shachaf: I even answered one (1).
22:09:10 <Ngevd> Maybe being a Functor is probably of use to me!
22:09:47 <monqy> itidus21: the truth can be painful
22:09:59 <Ngevd> > "Ha" ++ concat $ repeat "ha"
22:10:00 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
22:10:04 <oerjan> Ngevd: yep, it fits well in that last case
22:10:29 <Ngevd> > "Ha" ++ (concat $ repeat "ha")
22:10:31 <lambdabot> "Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
22:10:37 <itidus21> 4 is necessary -> truth -> painful -> sad -> blues -> fulfilled musicians -> fulfilled sodder
22:10:38 <lambdabot> "Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
22:10:44 <monqy> > const "Ha" ++ concat $ repeat "ha"
22:10:46 <lambdabot> "Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...
22:12:04 <oerjan> maths is like the anti-itidus. which means if he actually learned it, he would become superhuman.
22:12:22 <Phantom_Hoover> More likely, he'd explode and take out half of Australasia.
22:12:22 <monqy> he would vanish or explode
22:12:41 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: *Australia, assuming you're trying to refer to the continent.
22:12:41 <monqy> like a ghost or a nasty bomb
22:12:51 <elliott> (Australasia is still the general region, though.)
22:13:14 <monqy> itidus21: are you a ghost
22:13:22 <itidus21> now wheres my kim jong il style jacket
22:13:29 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You ruined my pedantry :'(
22:14:14 <Ngevd> Oh god I'm actually laughing my head off in a figurative sense up
22:14:22 <Ngevd> It was literal until the word "off"
22:14:35 <monqy> I'm literally laughing my head
22:14:48 <elliott> im literally (in possession of a) head
22:16:04 <itidus21> in A.D. 2101, war was beginning... unlike.. the other years when there wasn't a war beginning
22:16:39 <oerjan> 11:46:37: <elliott> -NickServ- Last failed attempt from: elliott_!~elliott@c-69-181-214-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net on Jan 13 15:34:34 2012.
22:16:42 <oerjan> 11:46:40: <elliott> WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU
22:17:26 <oerjan> which leads us to the question, is there any known year in which no war began
22:17:49 <itidus21> is there any known year in which no war began -> truth -> painful -> sad -> blues -> fulfilled musicians -> fulfilled sodder
22:18:13 <Ngevd> http://hpaste.org/56456
22:18:22 <oerjan> i recall something anecdote about there being only 200 days or so when there wasn't a war, but there could still be a year in which wars only _continued_
22:18:23 <olsner> oerjan: presumably every year before 2mya or something
22:19:44 <zzo38> Even though my Internet Quiz Engine is gopher-based, uploading is done using sprunge.
22:20:17 <oerjan> Ngevd: i think you _can_ declare :$ in an infix manner as well, but what you wrote works fine
22:20:49 <oerjan> also i don't think you are using Control.Monad anywhere
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22:21:17 <Ngevd> ais523_, join me in my happiness!
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22:21:39 <Ngevd> Haskell being magic!
22:22:07 <Ngevd> I'm probably sufficiently sane to live out my daily life!
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22:23:12 <lambdabot> forall b a. b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b
22:24:17 <monqy> hm, the language list bots got B
22:24:28 <Taneb> I'm just going to stay here for a bit
22:24:54 <tswett> oerjan: technically, you don't need to check anything to prove Fermat's last theorem.
22:25:13 <tswett> Fermat's last theorem follows trivially from the Fermat-Wiles theorem.
22:25:28 <Ngevd> Hmm, I'm on a different server to me.
22:25:29 <Taneb> This means I'm safer from netsplits?
22:26:00 <Ngevd> Netsplits are less likely to significantly hinder me
22:26:01 <oerjan> tswett: oooooooooooooooooh
22:26:02 <monqy> you could exist on both sides at once, but is that really safe?
22:26:19 <Taneb> It's safe because my laptop probably won't itself split
22:26:24 <oerjan> oh no, the Ngevd's are budding
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22:28:12 <elliott> <oerjan> which leads us to the question, is there any known year in which no war began
22:28:12 -!- iconmaster has joined.
22:28:23 <elliott> oerjan: presumably before civilisation is a safe bet
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22:28:38 <elliott> i guess you have to go back pretty far for the groups to be too small for it to be called war
22:28:46 <oerjan> Taneb: ah but it's safe only until you start noticing how the messages on each server are subtly different, at which time your curiosity will cause you to foolishly investigate...
22:29:15 <Taneb> oerjan: hmm... where's my Kindle?
22:29:19 <oerjan> elliott: i'm sorry, you have already been outsweded
22:29:44 <oerjan> <olsner> oerjan: presumably every year before 2mya or something
22:29:48 <elliott> <olsner> oerjan: presumably every year before 2mya or something
22:30:02 <olsner> <oerjan> <olsner> oerjan: presumably every year before 2mya or something
22:30:11 <Ngevd> Outnorwegianed alsi
22:30:16 <oerjan> <olsner> <oerjan> <olsner> oerjan: presumably every year before 2mya or something
22:30:25 <olsner> <oerjan> <olsner> <oerjan> <olsner> oerjan: presumably every year before 2mya or something
22:31:25 <monqy> hello oelsnerjan, helloelsnerjan
22:33:25 <itidus21> so although it's not right for me to suggest something i will never do among the company of those who might, i just imagined a dictionary file full of the names of programming languages being fed through the random machine
22:34:39 <Ngevd> Well, I've added the code for the iota combinator
22:34:46 <Ngevd> step (U :$ a) = Just (a :$ S :$ K)
22:34:49 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan logreading: i'm definitely leaning on the side of just really dumb <-- dammit
22:35:27 <oerjan> the theory that mine and elliott's ideas of what constitutes trolling has no overlap gains further evidence.
22:36:03 <itidus21> monqy: that bot which has lists of words and can emit made up words
22:36:39 <monqy> only kallisti can make your dream come true
22:37:02 <oerjan> kallisti: you don't want to crush itidus21's dreams do you?
22:37:15 <itidus21> i'll dig up some dirt on the matter at a later occasion
22:37:50 <kallisti> I am the official word generator technician.
22:37:59 <itidus21> kallisti: ok so i was thinking of a word list of programming languages
22:38:14 <kallisti> okay. give me one and I'll see what I can do!
22:38:23 <kallisti> I'll have to use very complex algorithms to add it to the existing word generator.
22:38:24 <monqy> it generates the words from the programming languages themselves
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22:38:46 <itidus21> \n or \r\n or its not too important eh
22:39:02 <elliott> <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan logreading: i'm definitely leaning on the side of just really dumb <-- dammit
22:39:02 <elliott> <oerjan> the theory that mine and elliott's ideas of what constitutes trolling has no overlap gains further evidence.
22:39:13 <elliott> oerjan: well otoh i consider that level of idiocy just as disruptive
22:39:13 <itidus21> obviously you can handle that side of things
22:39:24 <monqy> Taneb, Ngevd: good job on the netsplit
22:39:42 <elliott> oerjan: it has, after all, been my long-standing position that the "true motives" behind actions don't matter from a moderation perspective, just the disruption caused
22:39:45 <Taneb> Well, we're on the bigger side
22:39:51 <itidus21> kallisti: so i meant the names of the languages and not their keywords
22:40:14 <monqy> itidus21: may I ask why this idea interests you?
22:40:23 <zzo38> Maybe is a Functor, is of use, that it is MonadPlus: head x <$ guard (x /= []) is an example of its use
22:40:26 <itidus21> because i'm a sick son of a bitch
22:40:28 <kallisti> oerjan: this is why elliott should never be op because he'll just ban people on the grounds that "they're stupid"
22:41:10 <kallisti> itidus21: the newline style does not matter as long as it conforms to perl's notion of what is a "line"
22:41:32 <elliott> kallisti: it sounds like you might be bitter
22:41:51 <elliott> kallisti: but to pre-empt what you're thinking, no, you're not quite as stupid as roper
22:42:06 <kallisti> elliott: you've gotta be careful with that preemption stuff, man
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22:42:11 <oerjan> <kallisti> I'll have to use very complex algorithms to add it to the existing word generator. <-- soon we will gain the supreme technologies of Forlang, Algoth and Hascal!
22:42:20 <Ngevd> His home planet needed him
22:42:46 <olsner> deathed all the way to killedness
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22:43:53 <zzo38> Is the Internet Quiz Engine understandable to you? There were a few mistakes but I fixed them
22:44:17 <kallisti> elliott: being called an idiot does get tiresome, I guess. But I wasn't really referencing that.
22:44:27 <kallisti> elliott: I was just taking what you said literally.
22:44:48 <kallisti> that you would ban people on the grounds of "disruptive stupidity"
22:44:49 <Ngevd> The next challenge is of course try :: Expression -> Maybe Integer
22:46:12 <Ngevd> What I like to call Secularization
22:46:30 <elliott> http://vimeo.com/34949864 THIS IS REALLY COOL (briefly nsfw)
22:46:34 <Ngevd> Turning a church numeral into a number
22:49:01 <elliott> I DON'T THINK ANYONE REALISES HOW COOL THAT IS
22:49:10 <kallisti> I'm not entirely sure what's going on
22:49:30 <kallisti> it made sense when it was going through galaxies and stars and stuff
22:49:46 <kallisti> but how does it decide where to go on all this other shit.
22:49:58 <elliott> it's just using tineye or google similar-image search or whatever
22:50:31 <elliott> im going to buy you a dictionary and point to the definition of recursion for you
22:51:27 <elliott> <elliott> it's just using tineye or google similar-image search or whatever
22:51:44 <elliott> and at the start of the video
22:52:33 <itidus21> i stopped it so i don't scramble my brains
22:52:51 <monqy> what's so scrambling about it
22:53:43 <itidus21> im just in a mood for not thinking
22:54:00 <monqy> there's really not that much to think about
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22:57:29 <oerjan> i don't see why should afraid brains srcamleb 'mi prctlefely nfie
22:58:22 <kallisti_> everything is related to something that's related to something that's related to something that's ....
22:58:39 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:59:07 <oerjan> > var $ "everything i" ++ cycle "s related to something that'"
22:59:09 <lambdabot> everything is related to something that's related to something that's relat...
22:59:16 <kallisti_> so for example: the universe is indirectly related to tits.
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23:00:59 <kallisti> Phantom_Hoover: hello unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486
23:02:44 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: the linux in the VERSION reply ruins it a bit
23:08:51 <Ngevd> Wolfram Alpha allows SI prefixes all over the place http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1+nano+light+year+in+megasmoots
23:11:28 <Ngevd> Has done for a few months
23:11:46 <kallisti> wolfram alpha does not detect what "mega Burger King hamburger" means
23:12:18 <zzo38> There are a lot of things Wolfram Alpha does not understand
23:12:45 <kallisti> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=calories+in+1+million+solar+masses+of+burger+king+hamburgers
23:12:52 <kallisti> if I explicitly specify 1 million though it works.
23:15:23 <Gregor> OOOH OOOOH CHECK MY VERSION STRING
23:15:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I get no response :'(
23:15:44 <zzo38> There is three responses
23:15:57 <monqy> kallisti: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=burger+%28surname%29
23:18:39 <kallisti> !perl package Foo; use base 'List::Util'; print sum(1,2,3)
23:18:41 <EgoBot> Undefined subroutine &Foo::sum called at /tmp/input.23990 line 1.
23:18:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:18:51 <kallisti> !perl package Foo; use base 'List::Util'; print Foo->sum(1,2,3)
23:20:17 <EgoBot> syntax error at /tmp/input.24083 line 1, near "package 1" \ Execution of /tmp/input.24083 aborted due to compilation errors.
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23:22:18 <tswett> Hm. It wouldn't be too hard to create a model of a diode sort of like noit o' mnain worb.
23:23:05 <zzo38> One thing Wolfram|Alpha doesn't understand is ecliptic coordinates.
23:23:09 <tswett> Have a two-dimensional grid. Every point on the grid is one of four materials: rubber, metal, p-silicon, or n-silicon.
23:23:09 <kallisti> oh hi that means brow nianm 'o tion
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23:23:47 <oerjan> `addquote <kmc> has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people
23:23:52 <HackEgo> 804) <kmc> has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people
23:23:54 <tswett> There are two types of objects that are allowed to diffuse across the grid: electrons, and holes.
23:23:59 <zzo38> Maybe we can work together making a free and open source system with some similar to Wolfram|Alpha, possibly Haskell based but with macros and stuff
23:24:10 <tswett> Electrons can only diffuse through metal and n-silicon; holes can only diffuse through metal and p-silicon.
23:24:17 <tswett> If an electron and a hole are ever adjacent, they both disappear.
23:25:03 <primo> i should have paid more attention in particile physics o.O
23:26:31 <primo> at least kallisti confirms that i'm not the only one who has no idea what's being said :p
23:26:52 <oerjan> primo: these holes are not actually particles
23:27:13 <kallisti> primo: that's because you didn't catch my SUBTLE REFERENCE
23:27:14 <oerjan> they are rather a lack of an electron
23:27:31 <elliott> oerjan: but what is an electron
23:27:32 <tswett> They're particles in this model.
23:27:56 <oerjan> elliott: woooooooooooooooooooooow man
23:28:26 <elliott> i think we are proving that the design of programming languages specifically for stoned people is going on all day, in here
23:28:30 <elliott> and we just don't realise it
23:29:00 <monqy> the universe is a programming language for stoned people
23:29:16 <elliott> monqy: whoOOOOOAoAOAOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaao
23:29:32 <kallisti> monqy: you're freakin' me out man
23:30:02 <monqy> i only wish mathnerd314 could teach me his ways
23:30:07 <elliott> but a lack of a non-universe
23:30:45 <monqy> what is a non-universe but lack of a universe
23:31:27 <kallisti> what is a lack but a lack of non-lack
23:31:37 <elliott> but the lack of a non-what
23:32:07 <kallisti> what is not but a lack of a not-lack of not-not
23:32:19 <primo> you guys were almost making sense for a while
23:32:42 <kallisti> what is not but a lack of a not-lack of a lack of not-not
23:32:45 <elliott> primo: you must have been imagining things
23:33:05 <elliott> kallisti: im stoned 421 after that :(
23:33:08 <oerjan> ^ul (WH)S((O)(A))(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^
23:33:08 <fungot> WHAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAAOOAOAAOAOOAOAAOOAAOAOOAOAA ...too much output!
23:34:24 <primo> sad realization: the epiphanies one often has while stoned are merely the product of the dunning kruger effect :\
23:34:33 <oerjan> i think i somehow mixed them up
23:35:30 <elliott> primo: also the effect of: stoned
23:35:43 <oerjan> which means it's thue-morse with one char missing
23:37:01 <tswett> So, about sequences such that for every factor F, there exists a length n such that every factor G whose length is at least n has F as a subfactor.
23:37:26 <tswett> Things like Sturmian words and the Thue-Morse sequence, that act a bit like aperiodic tilings.
23:37:33 <elliott> i think we are tswett's favourite rubber duck
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23:38:37 <oerjan> tswett: just the kind i investigated in my phd
23:38:50 <elliott> oerjan: RUBBER DUCKS AREN'T MEANT TO TALK BACK
23:39:09 <tswett> oerjan: if so, I've love to... read your Ph.D.
23:39:18 <oerjan> tswett: yes, it's the criterion for the sequence generating a minimal shift system
23:39:55 <elliott> "let me tell you about my phd; don't ask to read it"
23:40:14 <oerjan> well there are the three published papers from it
23:40:23 <tswett> Or your... Ph.D. thesis? Because a Ph.D. doesn't sound like the sort of thing that a person can actually read and get a lot of useful information.
23:40:38 <oerjan> all joint with Richard Gjerde
23:40:40 <elliott> oerjan: Three! That's a bit BORGEOYSE of you.
23:41:05 <elliott> richard gjerde has a really good surname
23:41:15 <tswett> I think you mean "bergoisy".
23:41:26 <oerjan> can't you just google them? :(
23:42:35 <tswett> ...Is one of them called "Bratteli-Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems associated to interval exchange transformations"?
23:42:56 <oerjan> and also one with Toeplitz systems
23:43:16 <tswett> "Bratteli-Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems: applications to Toeplitz flows"?
23:44:04 <oerjan> and the final one is something about non-homogeneous systems and k-theory, it's not quite the same stuff
23:44:17 <elliott> http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=oerjans+phd&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=on help
23:44:17 <oerjan> (actually that's the first one)
23:44:18 <tswett> This site claims it's called "${C}\ sp\ ast $-algebras associated to non-homogeneous minimal systems and their ${K} $-theory".
23:44:31 <tswett> elliott: search for "johansen gjerde", bebna.
23:44:38 <elliott> [PDF] Upubmmz!! Ubf! Lxpo! Ep!
23:44:38 <elliott> ... Contributors: Michael Munyon, GM Kim Soo, Robert McLain, Troy Trudeau, Paul O'Leary, Michael
23:44:38 <elliott> Carr, Oerjan Nilsen, Brian Crawley, Matthew Sylvester, Paul Mitchell, Earl Weiss, Glenn Smits,
23:44:38 <elliott> Chris Snow, Dan Davies, W. Rhee, Simon O'Neill, George Vitale & Stuart Anslow ...
23:44:47 <tswett> elliott: stick a couple of first names in there, too.
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23:47:11 <tswett> Are there any spoilers if I read them out of order?
23:47:38 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
23:47:49 <tswett> elliott: hey, you're one of the characters.
23:48:00 <oerjan> tswett: heh not really, and the first one about k-theory is rather further from sequences than the rest
23:48:16 <tswett> "Assuming the Elliott conjecture, namely that a complete isomorphism invariant for the associated (simple) C*-crossed products is of (ordered) K-theoretic nature . . ."
23:48:21 <tswett> elliott: I think this means your character is gay.
23:48:40 <oerjan> that would be George Elliott iirc
23:48:52 <oerjan> he is/was quite a character
23:49:02 <tswett> Okay, so the thing it's really called is "C*-algebras associated to non-homogeneous minimal systems and their K-theory".
23:49:03 <oerjan> (worst lecturer _ever_)
23:49:45 <tswett> Next, "Bratteli-Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems: applications to Toeplitz flows".
23:50:07 <tswett> Finally, "Bratteli-Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems associated to interval exchange transformations".
23:50:13 <elliott> oerjan: i thought you were saying that's george elliott 'cuz of being gay
23:50:19 <oerjan> i think the toeplitz flow one is closest related to sequences
23:50:22 <elliott> and i was like "??? is this a famous bisexual i didn't know about"
23:50:38 <oerjan> since toeplitz sequences are the things they're based on, iirc
23:50:51 <tswett> Do these papers really form a trilogy, or is it more like a prequel and a... duology?
23:51:06 <oerjan> prequel and duology :P
23:51:07 <elliott> Bratteli–Vershik models for Cantor minimal systems ...
23:51:07 <elliott> journals.cambridge.org/production/action/cjoGetFulltext?fulltextid...
23:51:07 <elliott> by R GJERDE - Cited by 44 - Related articles
23:51:28 <tswett> Even if 44 were only one people, that would be a pretty tiny people.
23:51:35 <oerjan> the common part would be all using bratteli-vershik diagrams as their main new tool
23:51:52 <tswett> elliott: http://journals.cambridge.org.ezproxy.gvsu.edu/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=C98C693EB4FAA91F72F17DD2F6561AE0.journals?fromPage=online&aid=61853
23:52:05 <tswett> Simply enroll at GVSU and then click the link.
23:52:35 <elliott> oerjan: can you pirate your paper for me
23:53:11 <elliott> i want to glaze my eyes over it
23:54:34 <oerjan> elliott: um the reason why i'm saying argh in the first place is that i don't have it in a convenient place _myself_
23:55:05 <tswett> I have the second paper on my hard drive.
23:55:33 <tswett> elliott: it's at http://Downloads/oerjanpaper2.pdf
23:55:36 <elliott> tswett: i have the second paper on your hard drive too
23:55:37 <tswett> That's how URLs work, right?
23:55:45 <tswett> elliott: excellent! There you go, then.
23:55:53 <elliott> unfortunately i don't have your hard drive
23:56:09 <tswett> Oh. Well, you have my permission to borrow my hard drive.
23:56:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.