00:01:00 Okay, I've got paper 3 as well. 00:01:07 elliott: it's at http://www.mscand.dk/article.php?id=153 00:01:43 oh man this is great for glazing 00:01:46 i thought i remembered someone found one of them publicly available before 00:02:10 oerjan: it might have been do you think it might have been http://www.mscand.dk/article.php?id=153? 00:02:10 oerjan: pls set future papers in computer modern for more effective gazing experience 00:02:14 (the joke is "future papers") 00:02:28 tswett: QUITE POSSIBLE 00:03:00 elliott: i'm pretty sure the journals decide on fonts? 00:03:40 oerjan: how coudl you publish in aj ournal using times :( 00:03:52 "betrayed his responsibility to society" -ronald raegean 00:04:36 A dynamical system is minimal if every point's orbit is dense? That sounds... like a strange thing to say. 00:05:19 Oh shucks, I bet topological dynamical systems can generate these fancy-schmancy sequences. Take a point's orbit and apply some function to it elementwise. 00:05:20 tswett: it means there are no non-trivial closed subsystems 00:05:38 *you're* a non-trivial closed subsystem, lol 00:05:47 "oh snap" --bill clinton 00:06:23 "oh crap" --bill 00:07:19 * oerjan notes there is no actual picture of a bratteli-vershik diagram in that one 00:07:47 there's a nice one in the toeplitz paper iirc 00:09:34 This one is the Toeplitz one. 00:11:39 tswett: generally to get sequences you want to partition the space into clopen sets corresponding to your zero index value 00:12:03 and for the toeplitz case i recall this can be done iff you have the "expansive" criterion 00:12:54 actually that may be in general 00:23:29 this is a weird channel 00:23:29 kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 00:24:38 kmc: AGAIN? 00:24:56 Of course is weird channel!!!!???????!!!!!!!!???!!!!?!?!?!!!!???!!!!!!!!????!!!?!?!!???!!!!!!?!?!!!???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!?!?!??!!!?!?!!! 00:25:29 > map length $ group "!!!!???????!!!!!!!!???!!!!?!?!?!!!!???!!!!!!!!????!!!?!?!!???!!!!!!?!?!!!???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!?!?!??!!!?!?!!!" 00:25:30 [4,7,8,3,4,1,1,1,1,1,4,3,8,4,3,1,1,1,2,3,6,1,1,1,3,3,14,1,5,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,1... 00:25:32 kmc: 18:43:11: But gopher://zzo38computer.foeug3g47fgeg34.ch3p-h4rbl-vjaagra.co.ng:22/../../warez2.php not only looks wrong, and uses . as the type, but doesn't even resolve. I am unsure why kmc posted this wrong URL, possibly to confuse you??? 00:25:38 did you do it to confuse you :( 00:25:43 @oeis 4,7,8,3,4,1,1,1,1,1 00:25:51 Sequence not found. 00:25:56 the zzo sequence 00:26:07 * oerjan is disappoint 00:26:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:26:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 00:26:14 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:26:29 the triple kiwi entrance 00:27:55 i did it to confuse you elliott 00:29:17 :( 00:29:33 i'm sure your confusion has been bothering you all day 00:29:39 elliott: Are you confused you now? 00:29:50 im confuse 00:31:53 zzo38, luite was working on something like Wolfram Alpha in Haskell 00:32:01 called it Wolfgang Lambda 00:32:27 that thing was cool i remember that hing 00:32:48 i don't think "reimplement it in Haskell" is the way to make wolfram alpha better 00:32:57 it wasn't really W|Ay was it 00:33:03 at least i dont recall any free-text stuff 00:33:08 it was more CASy 00:33:09 I don't think luite's thing was "reimplementing Wolfram Alpha". 00:33:09 i mean i know all software is better if it's written in Haskell 00:33:13 like mathematica notebooks 00:33:53 not all software 00:34:04 software written in agda does not get better by being rewritten in haskell 00:34:16 yes it does 00:34:18 significant unicode reduction 00:34:30 and by reimplementing your software in haskell, you eliminate the need to test or document it 00:35:11 kmc: I thought the way it went was that all you need to do is talk about how the software would be easy to reimplement in Haskell. 00:35:16 elliott: that is not a good thing 00:35:17 You need to actually do it? 00:35:58 yeah, that's even better 00:36:05 only haskell experts can do that though 00:36:10 the great unicode plague of december 2012 00:36:11 wow it's almost as if i've heard this exact exchange five times in the past three days 00:36:26 haha 00:36:57 oerjan: oh that explains it 00:37:18 -!- CHeReP has joined. 00:37:31 `welcome CHeReP 00:37:38 CHeReP: 00:37:46 >_< 00:37:49 `welcome CHeReP 00:37:53 CHeReP: 00:37:54 womp womp 00:38:04 AGAIN? 00:38:20 CHeReP: i'm afraid our bot refuses to tell you what we're doing here 00:38:31 `welcome CHeReP 00:38:33 CHeReP: 00:38:39 `welcome cherp 00:38:43 cherp: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:38:43 hm... 00:38:47 cherp cherp 00:38:59 O_o 00:39:16 does welcome have caps problems 00:39:25 `@ CHeReP ? welcome 00:39:28 CHeReP: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:39:32 wtf 00:39:45 `welcome CHeReP 00:39:51 CHeReP: 00:39:59 CHeReP: sorry about the debugging 00:40:04 what's welcome 00:40:12 `welcome BaTMaN 00:40:16 BaTMaN: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:40:24 `welcome BaTMaN 00:40:28 BaTMaN: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:40:33 `welcome BAtMaN 00:40:37 BAtMaN: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:40:42 !! 00:40:50 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:41:01 `welcome DIfSfQ 00:41:05 DIfSfQ: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:41:09 ?!? 00:41:34 `welcome CHeReP 00:41:37 CHeReP: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:41:44 * tswett shrugs. 00:41:51 oh i 00:41:52 think i get it 00:41:53 now 00:41:56 `welcome monqy 00:42:00 monqy: 00:42:01 `welcome tswett 00:42:04 `welcome oerjan 00:42:05 tswett: 00:42:08 oerjan: 00:42:16 `welcome CHeReP 00:42:17 monqy: WHAT 00:42:20 CHeReP: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:42:34 its a magic 00:43:05 *sigh* 00:43:08 `welcome monqy yqnom 00:43:12 monqy: yqnom: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:43:38 `welcome Blah 00:43:38 `welcome oerjan 00:43:41 `welcome monqy yqnom monquey 00:43:43 Blah: 00:43:44 `welcome oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan 00:43:46 I get it 00:43:49 monqy: yqnom: monquey: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:43:49 sgeo gets it 00:43:50 oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: oerjan: 00:44:05 how does it 00:44:06 work 00:44:07 i dont get it 00:44:08 its a 00:44:10 perle 00:44:14 that 00:44:15 doesnmt explain 00:44:20 :0 00:44:21 Shall I explain? 00:44:29 `cat bin/welcome 00:44:31 explained. 00:44:33 #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 00:44:40 oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:44:40 It's a space 00:44:41 At the end 00:44:49 o k 00:44:54 argh 00:45:02 `welcome oerjan 00:45:06 oerjan: 00:45:08 `welcome oerjan 00:45:12 oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:45:20 * oerjan facepalm 00:46:05 today we learned 00:46:10 my hatred of perl rewrites of scripts 00:46:11 is legitimate 00:47:32 monqy: i want to pay a detective to find me the owner of sourcereal.com 00:47:38 an internet detective 00:48:27 -!- myndzi has joined. 00:48:37 Can you use WHOIS service to try? 00:48:51 i just tried; it was unhelphfuel 00:49:07 `run sed -i 's!{!{ s/ *$/; ' bin/welcome 00:49:11 sed: -e expression #1, char 14: unterminated `s' command 00:49:15 It was not healthfuel. 00:49:23 `run sed -i 's!{!{ s/ *$/; !' bin/welcome 00:49:26 No output. 00:49:32 `cat bin/welcome 00:49:35 #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$/; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 00:49:44 oops 00:50:03 i blame perl 00:50:12 i blame knit 00:50:13 `run sed -i 's!;!/;!' bin/welcome 00:50:16 No output. 00:50:22 `cat bin/welcome 00:50:25 registrent was mysteries, registered domain by progxy 00:50:25 #!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 00:50:36 `welcome oerjan 00:50:39 oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:50:43 `welcome oerjan 00:50:47 oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:50:50 `welcome oerjan oerjan 00:50:53 I never got welcomed in here. :-( 00:50:54 oerjan: oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:51:00 `welcome shachaf 00:51:04 shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 00:51:16 oerjan++ # has a heart. unlike some people in this channel 00:51:49 `unwelcome shachaf 00:51:52 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unwelcome: not found 00:52:45 elliott has a negative heart. 00:54:01 kill the planet 00:56:00 is the planet dead yet 00:56:04 update on planet mortality??? 00:56:55 Sam Hughes probably isn't up at this hour. 00:56:56 very dead 00:56:59 well, zzo38 and I are going to go invent a language with at least 20 pronouns <-- check out the bantu language family 00:57:10 not quite 20 maybe, but... 00:57:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: My internet will be down for a few hours today for maintenance. If that happen, try again in the next day.). 00:57:32 Phantom_Hoover: It depends on which one. 00:57:35 oerjan: 5 pronouns will be for the previously used pronouns 00:57:42 so as new things are reffered to by pronouns 00:57:47 shachaf, the important one. 00:57:58 the old ones move further up in the pronoun queue 00:58:31 and also sign language iirc 01:00:49 shachaf: Do you remember The Good Old Hpaste? 01:00:58 * elliott has decided to be nostalgic about hpaste tonight. 01:01:10 elliott: I remember that hpaste! 01:01:17 Didn't sorear write it? 01:01:25 All I remember was it was hosted on moonpatio. 01:01:30 It had so many good pastes taht are now lost in the mists of time. 01:01:32 Dot something (net?). 01:01:48 I seem to remember it actually went through two incarnations, at least I remember it suddenly getting a fancier design at one point. 01:02:47 * elliott tries to remember the URL to Web Archiveify it. 01:03:06 Ah, moonpatio.com:8080/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi 01:03:27 "We were unable to get the robots.txt document to display this page." 01:03:30 Wasn't that just an interim hpaste? 01:03:43 I think archive.org have, at some point along the line, forgotten that they're meant to be archiving sites that might die. 01:04:01 shachaf: Maybe? 01:05:59 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:06:04 shachaf : Maybe ? 01:06:38 I'm going to assume that's a combination of Haskell, Agda, and Miranda. 01:06:49 Did Miranda have a ? type or something? 01:06:49 * Sgeo is tempted to use Data.Has 01:07:50 what is has 01:08:14 dont monqy dont 01:08:17 you wont recover 01:08:20 its not for human 01:08:28 elliott: Oops, I was confusing ? with *. 01:08:37 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:09:00 Miranda's *** notation was the best thing. 01:09:09 Did you hear my exciting proposal for type class polymorphism? 01:09:26 foo :: Num -> Num -> Num ==> foo :: Num a => a -> a -> a 01:09:48 foo :: Num -> NumNum -> Num ==> foo :: (Num a, Num b) => a -> b -> a 01:09:55 Miranda's *** notation was the best thing. 01:09:59 Elaborate so I don't have to Google. 01:10:14 Also, you shouldn't have to specify NumNum like that. 01:10:19 foo :: Num -> Num -> Num 01:10:20 ==> 01:10:20 elliott: In Miranda, you'd say map :: (* -> **) -> [*] -> [**] 01:10:27 foo :: (Num a, Num b, Num c) => a -> b -> c 01:10:34 *except* that if two variables must be unified to make things work, they are, automatically. 01:11:00 shachaf: Finally we're rid of the horrible impurity of the alphabet. 01:11:10 finally in the past 01:11:15 elliott: Is this some competition for who can make the worst proposal? 01:11:47 Yes. 01:12:13 elliott: To be fair, Haskell's solution of "uppercase/lowercase" is also kind of horrible. 01:12:32 Why does Haskell have implicit quantification, anyway? Implici quantification is the root of all evil. 01:12:48 -!- pir^2 has joined. 01:12:59 converse::(*->**->***)->**->*->***; converse f a b = f b a 01:13:10 shachaf: Do you remember that guy on #haskell who claimed that leaving out the "forall"s made a huge difference because it's, like, so much easier to teach, and it has more meaning because you're talking directly about variables in the metalanguage, rather than reducing it to an internal abstraction, or something? 01:13:17 That was WILD. 01:13:23 Does anyone here know what is supposed to happen if you < on the leftmost cell in BF? 01:13:33 elliott: No, I don't remember that. 01:13:37 (They didn't actually say most of those things, but I can't remember what they actually said because it was too weird to remember.) 01:13:48 pir^2: It's not standard. 01:14:00 pir^2: A program that does that is broken. 01:14:04 Generally. 01:14:12 Most implementations only do a right-infinite tape (if that). 01:14:14 ok 01:14:29 So ignoring it is OK? 01:14:52 * Sgeo is tempted to use Data.Has to solve his problems 01:14:59 again? 01:15:10 pir^2: Sure. 01:15:10 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:15:19 Hey guys, I think Sgeo is tempted to use Data.Has. 01:15:32 * shachaf Data.Has no idea what that is. 01:15:40 I think Sgeo is also tempted to say that repeatedly in #esoteric until someone is sufficiently caught off-guard to be silly enough to try and talk him out of it. 01:15:51 Oh, didn't remember that I said it before 01:15:54 module Data where data Has = Has `Has` Has 01:15:57 import Data (Has) 01:15:58 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:16:07 Sgeo: 17:06:47 * Sgeo is tempted to use Data.Has 01:16:08 * shachaf `Data.Has` no idea 01:16:50 and mere minutes later 01:16:53 17:14:50 * Sgeo is tempted to use Data.Has to solve his problems 01:17:17 I still don't even know what it is 01:17:26 http://chrisdone.com/posts/2010-11-22-duck-typing-in-haskell.html 01:17:33 no 01:17:34 no 01:17:34 no 01:17:38 domnt 01:17:40 duckt ype 01:17:47 * shachaf away 01:18:07 im not even going to rtead that im just going to shout at y ou 01:18:10 until you 01:18:11 monqy: I suggest smiling and letting Sgeo dig himself into the hole that is http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/has/0.5.0.1/doc/html/Data-Has.html rather than trying to prematurely explain to him why it's a terrible idea. 01:18:11 make it stop 01:18:16 (This is because he won't listen.) 01:18:23 ok 01:18:24 i;ll 01:18:27 let sgeo holdeig 01:18:28 I don't think it really is duck typing 01:18:35 and then he;ll not notice the hole, amyBE? 01:18:42 and 01:18:53 What's the name for the thing that Scala has? I think it's like that 01:18:56 structural typing? 01:18:59 shit 01:20:07 l o l s 01:21:23 HEY GUYS DO YOU WANT TO HEAR A JOKE 01:21:24 scala 01:21:32 ha 01:21:32 ha 01:21:33 ha 01:21:59 good thing i don't know scala so i don't get it (thumbs up) 01:22:02 I just mention it because structural typing seems like a more accurate description for Data.Has than Duck typing 01:22:05 Sgeo, "structural subtyping" is a thing 01:22:05 elliott: I think if given the opportunity I would elect to use Scala over Java 01:23:08 or maybe Clojure . 01:23:14 https://github.com/ChickenProp/sysfuck hey someone reinvented psox except they actually wrote more than like ten lines of it and wrote a really irritating readme *thumbs up* 01:23:27 oh it even involves nul bytes too 01:23:43 I prefer the name psox over sysfuck 01:23:51 fuckfuck 01:23:54 good name 01:24:02 fuckfuck is awful and whoever invented it is awful 01:24:11 for inventing it 01:24:44 what if its 01:24:44 you 01:24:56 but its not me,,,,,,,,, 01:24:58 but "knob arse cock knob butt" is such an endearing cat program 01:25:14 "Entiry based records. To use this module, you have to write LANGUGAGE pragma" <-- O KAY 01:25:48 entiry 01:25:54 langugage 01:26:04 its entiry reasonable if you ask me 01:26:06 ha ha ha ah ah 01:26:20 sysfuck allows more access to stuff without having to write I-forget-what-I-called-them 01:26:51 oh 01:26:58 hyeres my "pee socks" extension language 01:27:00 domains, I think 01:27:03 you write a c program to stdout 01:27:05 print a nul byte 01:27:10 and its output gets connected to your stdin 01:27:13 when it exits the whole thing loops 01:27:19 completely extensible(tm) 01:27:24 you can even write portable things 01:27:26 monqy, hi 01:27:29 by writing a program that figures out how to structure the program 01:27:30 CHeReP: hi 01:27:32 and using the result of that to write a new one 01:27:33 i'am not a bot) 01:27:34 magic(tm) 01:27:52 CHeReP: me too! 01:27:58 cool) 01:28:01 im ab ot 01:28:05 fungot is bot 01:28:05 elliott: trust me. this system is way cheaper. or that dirty dancing bad-apple my father forbids me to see. daily radar is on the same console, for the warrior? full. 01:28:11 ^styl 01:28:12 The Data.Has person at least got the LANGUAGE in the pragma right :/ 01:28:12 ^style 01:28:12 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa* qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 01:28:26 what if i was a bot 01:28:28 and claimed not to be a bot 01:28:31 why you dont sleep ? 01:28:33 and got upset when anyone called me a bot 01:28:33 what if I wasn't a bot? 01:28:45 But what I need is something like Data.Has except ... more competent. 01:28:50 what if I asked a what if question 01:28:51 then what? 01:28:52 what happens? 01:28:53 explain 01:28:55 help 01:29:15 Sgeo: what you need is a better design 01:29:15 Data.Records won't compile on 7.x due to a stupid contraint on base 01:29:26 elliott: unpossible such no thing 01:29:40 Sgeo: what are you even trying to do 01:29:53 no monqy 01:29:55 don't 01:29:58 you never 01:29:59 learn 01:30:06 Deal with the hundreds of named global ... values in the AW SDK. 01:30:08 is this the activeworlds bot for which you wanted an awful TH 01:30:15 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah 01:30:29 monqy: 01:30:32 Only some of which are initialized on any given event handler or callback 01:30:34 you need to 01:30:36 become more street-wise 01:30:46 And only some of which need to be set when calling certain functions 01:30:47 street wise killed my parents 01:31:11 Suppose I have two events that set similar sets of attributes 01:31:26 I wonder how awkward talking about brianfuck in a job interview would be 01:31:34 because it requires you to use PROFANE LANGUAGE. 01:31:36 And I want a function that takes some of those attributes and gives me a higher-level wrapper 01:31:43 erm, just a record, whatever 01:31:57 most jobs i've interviewed for, nobody would give a fuck 01:32:00 But the events give slightly different data 01:32:09 kmc: well yeah 01:32:10 nobody would give a 01:32:11 ... 01:32:12 ........ 01:32:13 ..................... 01:32:15 ............ 01:32:15 brainfuck 01:32:16 ....... 01:32:16 ... 01:32:18 fuck 01:32:18 you 01:32:31 you ruined EVERYTHING 01:32:43 that's okay it's okay. 01:32:46 no 01:33:03 Sgeo: i have NO IDEA what you just said 01:33:20 none 0 01:33:26 In the AW SDK, there are a bunch of "attributes" 01:33:31 ok 01:33:34 stop stop ostooop 01:33:37 Retrieved with functions like aw_int(SOME_ATTRIBUTE); 01:33:49 ok 01:33:49 And set with things like aw_int_set(SOMEATTRIBUTE, 0); 01:33:54 ok 01:34:01 creys 01:34:19 (crey is like cray but british) 01:34:31 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Color_icon_gray_v2.svg mmmm grey 01:34:33 Some events will, when the event handler is run, give data to the event handler by setting attributes 01:34:39 Same with callbacks. 01:34:56 (That's the only way data gets to the event or callback) 01:35:01 what is a 01:35:02 data 01:35:03 event 01:35:04 handler 01:35:06 callback 01:35:15 monqy is bad at programming. 01:35:15 NO 01:35:15 attributes 01:35:16