00:26:42 I found something called "The Online Book Initiative". It seem pretty good. It is at gopher://gopher.std.com 00:44:06 -!- itidus21 has joined. 00:44:56 -!- SteppenwolfVM has joined. 00:45:06 -!- SteppenwolfVM has left ("Oh look.... it's a part!"). 00:54:41 -!- SteppenwolfVM has joined. 00:55:31 -!- SteppenwolfVM has left ("Oh look.... it's a part!"). 01:00:57 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:01:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:25:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:39:56 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:10:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:11:58 @hoogle [a] -> ([a], [a]) 02:11:58 Prelude break :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) 02:11:58 Data.List break :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) 02:11:58 Prelude span :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) 02:12:14 also partition 02:12:32 @hoogle+ 02:12:33 Data.List span :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) 02:12:33 Data.List partition :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) 02:12:33 Prelude splitAt :: Int -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) 02:12:37 @hoogle+ 02:12:37 Data.List splitAt :: Int -> [a] -> ([a], [a]) 02:12:38 Data.List genericSplitAt :: Integral i => i -> [b] -> ([b], [b]) 02:12:38 System.FilePath.Windows splitDrive :: FilePath -> (FilePath, FilePath) 02:13:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:13:19 * Sgeo decides to use Conduit Sources as his primary model of events 02:13:55 lucky for you elliott is not around, eh? 02:15:46 * oerjan checks in the obvious place to see if he's alive 02:17:43 so? 02:18:09 seen 4 hours ago 02:24:28 -!- zzo38 has left. 02:24:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:27:43 although his rep was a lot lower yesterday than "usual" 02:28:03 type the devil's nick and his taskbar will alert him 02:28:15 hi 02:28:42 itidus21: i did that 14 minutes ago, didn't i 02:29:31 i suspect he's asleep now, anyway 02:29:56 ahh.. hexham sleeps 02:30:52 i'm not sure whether the rest of hexham sleeps has much to do with it. 02:31:12 *whether whether 02:31:22 > break isSpace "" 02:31:23 ("","") 02:31:46 > break undefined "" 02:31:47 ("","") 02:32:36 oerjan: I'm trying to do something really simple 02:32:46 namely, remove all consecutive whitespace 02:32:47 and also 02:32:53 remove whitespace from both ends of the list 02:32:56 at the same time 02:33:02 kallisti: unwords . words hth 02:33:03 unwords . words 02:33:05 yes 02:33:05 while preserving the kind of whitespace (no unwords . words) 02:33:14 bah :D 02:33:27 \v\t: which gets preserved??? 02:33:35 neither 02:33:38 :o 02:33:40 oh 02:33:41 yes 02:33:42 good question 02:33:50 and what about in \r\n 02:33:54 ssshh 02:34:24 worrying about \r\n is too sensible 02:34:46 does anyone even use \v\t? 02:35:11 ok wheres my finnish speakers 02:35:22 sleeping 02:35:35 :( 02:35:44 päimavaar 02:35:50 fizzie! D: 02:35:54 you know perfectly well fizzie is the only op with a sane sleep schedule :P 02:35:59 @tell fizzie msg me plz 02:35:59 Consider it noted. 02:36:19 although ais523's occasionally is 02:36:23 hagb4rd: you speak finnish? 02:36:26 no 02:36:30 o :( 02:36:37 `words --finnish 50 02:36:41 astannettäviltämin eettamatto pallisilmällä autuvautuvistansa paimpänne havoliita kepeimuttelemme sfäärittämä kuolisimpana löyläpikalve takoskivamme uintaanne mustamme vaileviltanne aggressäästä nihatekemistä ryhmimpaa uneen lensa joutumastipa ologisempääsi samistanne tyyliltaan hämälleni soittu 02:36:49 the only word i knew was date 02:36:49 augur: HackEgo can help 02:36:56 no it cant :( 02:37:06 *gasp* 02:37:23 hagb4rd: i suspect you broke vowel harmony by using both ä and a 02:37:34 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:37:36 only once? 02:37:41 *phew 02:37:51 yea 02:37:52 also -r is probably not a common word ending in finnish 02:38:29 not common, but right 02:38:33 not? 02:39:02 you know a good dictionary? 02:39:04 -!- yiyus has joined. 02:39:10 for finnish 02:39:35 hagb4rd: you will note that every word HackEgo generated ends with a vowel or -n. i think -t also happens in some case. 02:39:50 no. i don't _actually_ know finnish. 02:40:07 tswett might know. 02:40:11 aw..bad luck then :Pp 02:40:26 (and be awake, unlike the finns) 02:40:29 i thought you were norwegian? 02:40:54 i must have been wrong 02:40:59 i am. norwegian is not related to finnish. 02:41:19 yes, thats y i wonder 02:41:30 wheres oklopol :( 02:41:34 -!- pir^2 has joined. 02:41:37 i'm just somewhat generally interested in linguistics 02:41:49 oerjan: well you're in luck! i'm a linguist! 02:41:56 there's also Deewiant 02:41:58 w00t 02:42:01 a linguist! 02:42:02 i said _somewhat_ 02:42:03 Deewiant isnt a linguist 02:42:11 no, he's finnish 02:42:26 and atehwa 02:43:04 and ineiros 02:43:48 just to nickping all the ones i remember :P 02:44:57 Is there a word for people from Finnmark? 02:45:01 Finnmarkish? 02:45:05 finnmarking 02:45:11 (noun) 02:46:36 normally we'd make the adjective by adding -sk, but that gets awkward when the word already ends in -rk... 02:47:38 Do you live in Finnmark? 02:48:00 (no need to answer...) 02:48:05 I might know! 02:48:29 paimaväär? 02:48:37 like "trøndersk" has 445000 google hits while "finnmarksk" only has 700 or so 02:48:45 no, i live in Trøndelag 02:48:52 (Trondheim) 02:49:22 paimaväär looks like a plausible Finnish word, though, as has been said, I don't think Finnish words commonly end in r. 02:49:58 On the other hand, the Finnish Wikipedia article "Koira" has no words at all ending in r, apart from words in other languages. 02:50:06 So... no. 02:50:14 hm actually checking a couple other counties implies "trøndersk" might be the odd one out 02:50:15 `words 50 02:50:20 Hilighting in the middle of the night. 02:50:21 gen fnh ovepo ffervedransag aga isperi writtr ipnley sual late kossen dia copin lley camatt capple hysia care hem oile pitia ress cour whiteropolle come 02:50:38 Are those supposed to be plausible English words, because... because... 02:50:54 tswett: yep. 02:50:56 umm 02:50:59 english is _weird_, man 02:51:00 `words 50 02:51:06 pard mvl supe frenoy elmakener crealtic yrity seruntla tszew mastop nobwer whltcherline ret sphill ghen geffe coated smatrik orditry toight forgnific ath caffe minaniflb homodynin 02:51:11 What languages can it do? 02:51:13 All of them? 02:51:16 `words --spanish 50 02:51:21 molizaglia yntesione estron debíalen tentrotaliza penio náis jinéis alleión tkopiesestraguay consen cermi fcpcct her bastonj desma plictoria morizacionas evolu hoolimporte prado kosorbelila indisti antate retambell 02:51:32 *+s 02:51:44 `words -- sindarin 50 02:51:44 `words --french 50 02:51:53 `words --sindarin 50 02:51:57 Unknown option: sindarin 02:51:59 Argument "sindarin" isn't numeric in int at /hackenv/bin/words line 147. \ 02:52:08 `words --french 50 02:52:09 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:52:12 ... 02:52:13 burg concart traient albaction lutionstassi eluy massoix fufiel macation abinum aflad dof einetés logîa letaçoo trandas procb voh chus nac frigius trani fbcf mouchi ben 02:52:23 lulz 02:52:29 fbcf? 02:52:48 crock suddi agustympos hydrio rodults shimi agolge appel orèze morosco milauto hidussor perfè charging sitibus aliti tima guère ebate aniershaneguyeri incripteradjes gnatter nappé confeld éluct 02:52:58 Whelp. Some of those Spanish words are more likely than others. 02:53:23 "morizacionas"? Yes, definitely. "fcpcct"? No. 02:54:08 éluct la plè des agustympos 02:54:11 `words --german 50 02:54:15 beschauf eriknm bewer spcne eleidiskaufbauer weibweizki geschachepur megassung folgepube erbaziffenerescher moden zuwachfarbe vollendessfei metaktorschi umredgingenblutur lottelle derin rollia krokalkonverhalthe pres stoff betheitsgestris drowerke türzeugeueren durcenssyrit 02:55:04 it might be improvable 02:56:03 `words --scots 10 02:56:06 Unknown option: scots 02:56:10 }:( 02:58:02 concart? Anything like concat? 02:58:38 `? concart 02:58:41 concart? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 02:59:53 Let's see. Part, supe, mastop, nobwer, ret, sphill, coated, smatrik, orditry, forgnific, ath, late, capple, care, hem, ress, come... 03:00:27 I just asked it for words and it said "guraul gei spokesfo pitte lausgen tbutylike unmiflex guan affympan cereaco vauli consalpa injr fair macaller sumab thrifog petero ghert wholog graz 942124.25 viilplant plum avelli" 03:00:32 One of those words is not like the others. 03:00:43 Please note: In less than 27 hours, 03:00:44 the English Wikipedia will be blacked out globally in protest of SOPA and PIPA. 03:00:46 Learn more 03:01:06 tswett: 942124.25 03:01:18 XD 03:01:24 That is correct! 03:01:44 unmiflex! 03:03:28 im sure there is no words in german ending with -knm or -ki.. there is also no german word with a 'standalone' c (only ck, or ch) 03:03:34 this tool is crap 03:04:38 no 03:04:52 In my opinion it's very traeusal 03:04:59 lol 03:05:32 It's also very imisreent 03:05:44 ...or is that a noun? 03:06:02 Oh my god best word ever: "wapellessly" 03:06:15 :D 03:06:30 It's an O:B-quality word. 03:06:47 hagb4rd: i won't be on the -ki, germans have some fearsome diminutives 03:06:51 *bet 03:07:50 its mostly -ei -er -ig -en 03:08:13 +ending with 03:09:08 "mcgockeleof". That makes me imagine some guy named George McGockelEOF. 03:09:23 (see: Schnappi) 03:09:34 you know schnappi? :) 03:09:41 the crocodile? 03:09:56 and Heidi. i cannot actually recall any german name in -ki, though 03:10:03 oh yes and i 03:10:14 hagb4rd: how could i possibly have avoided Schnappi 03:10:28 hehe 03:10:36 amazing facts 03:11:15 there was a norwegian actor with nickname "Henki" though, is that a german name? 03:11:54 i guess it was short for henrik, though 03:11:59 the i ending is used in cases of belittlement 03:12:03 exactly 03:12:15 its like tom and tommy 03:12:30 know what i mean? 03:12:58 well in english i think tommy is short (um...) for tom, which is short for thomas. 03:13:16 * oerjan recalls there was a hilarious blackadder sketch about this 03:13:24 see also jennifer -> jenny 03:13:42 bob - > bobby 03:13:57 and so on 03:14:58 bob is short for robert 03:15:18 yea.. but you agree that tommy is not "short" for tom 03:15:19 bobby is long for bob 03:15:29 well 03:15:30 won't ya 03:17:20 i'm not sure 'belittlement' is the right translation.. my dict also says: minimization 03:19:49 schnappi would be the minimized form of 'schnapper' 03:20:16 schnappen means to snap 03:20:31 the usual word in english for this sort of construct is "diminutive" 03:20:39 thx 03:20:48 consider it noted :) 03:21:30 kmc, what do you think about exposing events as Sources? 03:21:36 hey i already said that :( 03:21:37 what's a Source 03:21:59 kmc, the Conduit equiv. of Enumerators 03:22:00 source of all evil 03:22:10 oh sorry oerjan 03:22:40 i don't know much about Conduit yet 03:22:43 did you ask #haskell 03:23:04 hask and you shall ell 03:23:13 Yeah, but maybe too casually for anyone to take note? 03:23:46 you have to start out by saying "HASKELL SUX CUZ I CANT IO Int -> Int" 03:23:57 once you have their attention you can tell them what you're really trying to do 03:27:22 yep oerjan..in hindsight everything you said is right 03:29:32 AS ALWAYS 03:30:45 which can get quite embarassing. like that time i foolishly said that Stockholm is the capital of Sweden. 03:32:13 * Sgeo doesn't get it 03:32:32 its not? 03:32:40 hagb4rd: well _now_ it is. 03:33:09 ESOTERIC SUX CUZ I CANT IO Int -> Void 03:33:49 ... 03:39:47 BRAINFUCK SUX CUZ I CANT SOLVE THE HALTING PROBLEM 03:39:48 What do you mean by those things? 03:40:23 zzo38: what? 03:40:35 There is (IO Int -> Int) using unsafePerformIO but you shouldn't use that usually 03:40:53 pir^2: I was mentioning "ESOTERIC SUX CUZ I CANT IO Int -> Void" 03:41:26 http://i.imgur.com/YY3LI.png 03:41:28 if the halting problem is solved it might coincide with the end of the universe 03:41:42 yay 03:42:00 if the universe can end then the halting problem is solved :-? 03:42:40 only practically 03:42:50 Turing machines are theoretical 03:42:52 oh 03:42:56 bummer 03:43:00 well 03:43:03 :P 03:43:05 nobody will care 03:43:16 (unless they're from another universe) 03:43:44 singularity goes a long way 03:43:48 so what is the halting problem again? whether a program will halt? 03:44:33 Write a program to determine whether arbitrary Turing machines halt? 03:46:06 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Weight_Loss_Clinic_Calgary ... 03:46:30 For more information, please follow me.. Lefebre Calgary Clinics - Medical Diet since 1998.. Welcome to the Lefebre clinic.. Call today.. The clinic is available ZERONA Dr.. Lefebre! . 03:46:30 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:46:33 the probelm of course is that if you could do that then you never needed the turing machine 03:46:46 -!- Zuu has joined. 03:48:00 what 03:48:02 hmm 03:48:06 nevermind 03:48:24 ... 03:48:26 ???????????? 03:48:36 "you never needed the turing machine" 03:48:38 finally im confused 03:48:54 lol 03:48:56 so, when programming a turing machine, does the programmer tend to know whether it will halt? 03:49:01 * pir^2 is laughing at "you never needed the turing machine" 03:49:04 yes 03:49:16 XD 03:49:16 kmc: and so, how does he know? 03:49:28 by writing a proof, in some sense 03:49:37 you're asking "when you write a program, how do you know what it does" 03:49:47 yeah 03:49:47 For some turing machines, it's possible for a turing machine to determine whether or not it halts. But no turing machine can say perfectly 100% of the time 03:49:49 i guess so 03:49:57 i am 03:50:03 humans have some capacity to generate proofs 03:50:04 Either it fails to answer sometimes, or gives false positives, or false negatives, or 2 or more of the above 03:50:05 so do computers 03:50:27 all computer programs halt 03:50:36 *in practice 03:51:21 "does it halt" is just one example of the general problem of predicting program behavior 03:51:55 There exist programs for which humans are uncertain about whether they will halt 03:52:26 yeah, like the program that finds counterexamples to 03:53:06 Collatz conjecture? Goldbach conjecture? P vs NP? True? 03:53:18 I just solved True 03:53:28 yeah collatz is a good example 03:54:55 * pir^2 -> HOTPO -> 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 2... 03:57:45 itidus21, it's easy to generate a proof that some machine halts on some specific input 03:57:52 it's just a trace of the execution of that machine 03:58:09 but if the machine doesn't halt, it's hard to prove that 03:58:54 though in some cases it's easy, for example if it enters the exact same state twice 03:58:58 it may also be hard to prove that a machine halts for *all* inputs 04:00:58 !finnmark bye 04:02:01 -!- pir^2 has quit (Quit: I have discovered a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition that this quit message is too narrow to contain). 04:02:19 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep. 04:02:27 All computer programs halt if your notion of "halting" includes heat death. :P 04:03:04 pikhq_: NOT IN THEORETICAL LAND DAWG 04:04:51 itidus21: You seem utterly confused about the halting problem. :) 04:05:20 hm, so 4,2,1 would make an endless loop? 04:05:37 if not catched? 04:06:27 okay. 04:21:55 the 500 bucks are already mine..muahrhr 04:37:26 seems to me that several guys will solve the halting problem without knowing each other and be super famous for it 50 years later 04:44:43 itidus21: Turing already proved it was impossible. 04:44:56 Unless there's a glaring flaw in his proof, done. 04:45:13 i got confused by " BRAINFUCK SUX CUZ I CANT SOLVE THE HALTING PROBLEM" 04:45:21 or unless we change to different definitions 04:45:26 itidus21, it was an intentionally dumb statement 04:45:57 d'oh 04:46:09 all caps, bad grammar and spelling 04:47:05 i understood that it was a mockery, but i didn't realize that the meaning of it was also wrong 04:47:49 it's very easy to prove the halting problem is impossible 04:48:27 suppose (by contradiction) that you have a function halts(f) = true if f(x) halts for all x, halts(f) = false if f(x) loops for some x 04:49:00 * oerjan swats kmc for misrepresenting the problem -----### 04:49:02 now define the function g(x): if (halts(g)) then { loop forever } else { return } 04:49:13 oh misrepresenting how? 04:49:15 all that matters to me is that it's solved :D 04:49:26 x is supposed to be an argument to halts as well 04:49:49 x is a free variable :P 04:49:58 aren't both problems unsolvable, though 04:50:03 probably. 04:50:27 anyway the only subtlety is that g needs a copy of its own description 04:50:36 by solved i probably mean that we realize it's unsolved 04:50:48 and it's not obvious that you can do this 04:50:50 s/unsolved/unsolvable 04:50:53 but you can 04:51:19 in mathematics this is known as Kleene's recursion theorem 04:51:25 in esoteric programming it is known as writing quines :) 04:51:52 If there are an infinite number of possible inputs, can you make a function that stops if and only if the program you are testing will stop for all inputs? 04:52:01 g(x) = if halts(x,x) then { loop forever } else { return } 04:52:39 Those g(x) stuff have been described in book Godel, Escher, Bach, although using Godel numbering instead of like that. 04:53:34 then ask if halts(g,g) is true or not 04:57:19 yeah, that's better 05:00:22 your version can be reduced to this by defining myhalts(g,x) = yourhalts(\y -> g(x)), i think 05:01:31 (and of course if you want to be really precise, you should not confuse the notation for functions and the strings representing them) 05:02:37 yeah 05:02:58 that reminds me of C#, where lambda is also a quote 05:03:53 "lambda is also a quote"? 05:05:40 istr old lisps also confused lambdas and their list representation; of course lisp is designed to make that almost harmless 05:06:01 Sgeo, if you have a function value that came from a lambda, you can also inspect the syntax tree of its definition 05:06:11 it should be noted that I haven't used C# and just read about this once 05:06:21 (the "almost" is because afaiu it essentially forces dynamical scoping) 05:07:01 similarly if f is a function in CPython, you can use f.func_code to get its bytecode 05:07:02 or well, non-lexical 05:07:53 i think there is other harm 05:08:02 you lose the ability to treat functions as black boxes 05:08:18 you lose abstraction 05:08:40 if i pass a function to some library, that library can care about the implementation details of my function 05:09:06 Picolisp has very not-black-box functions 05:09:10 If you have a newspaper, tell me what the "horoscope" section says (including the dates) and tell me your timezone. I wish to try an experiment with them 05:09:25 "news... paper"? 05:09:40 Yes, a newspaper. Do you have one? 05:33:48 If the newspaper was published in a different timezone as your own, I would like their timezone as well as yours. 05:54:31 -!- NicePants has joined. 06:40:05 Are there any quad precision floating point in Haskell? 06:43:44 http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/Decimal/0.1.0/doc/html/Data-Decimal.html 06:43:45 öfde 06:43:59 precise enough? 06:45:44 that's... not floating point 06:45:52 nope 06:46:09 there's a binding to mpfr but it has hella caveats 06:46:12 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hmpfr 06:46:16 No; I need logarithms and trigonometry 06:48:42 O, OK, yes hmpfr includes trigonometry. But it says there is errors on it 07:00:44 Do you know if there is any ephemeris softwares for Haskell, or how to make such a things? 07:00:47 -!- Klisz has quit (Quit: SLEEP, GLORIOUS SLEEP). 07:04:09 kmc: Sorry. :-( 07:04:18 what did you do? 07:04:30 or, is that the other kind of "sorry" 07:04:48 Not speaking English to the President. 07:05:02 Oh, I thought you left because of my kmc-blood-pressure joke. 07:05:20 Which I'll admit wasn't a particularly good one. 07:05:39 no, i left because people were saying dumb things and I did not feel like correcting them 07:05:47 which was also probably why you made the joke 07:05:49 i just wonder why there is such a discrepance in the terminology of quad precision between german and english sources. in german quad precision describes any format using 4 'units' of memory, while the english ones determines it to floats..strange 07:07:29 Ah. Fair enough. 07:07:31 bagb4rd: I did specify floating point, at least. 07:07:39 yes 07:14:29 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:14:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:24:06 Is there a way in Haskell to make a Double value with is large or infinite? 07:26:04 > 1 / 0 07:26:04 Infinity 07:28:50 wow SPJ's article on the STG is insane. 07:28:58 I'm afraid I only understand bits and pieces of it. 07:29:18 which one? 07:29:31 the one that someone linked me. 07:29:48 Implementing lazy functional languages on stock hardware: the spineless tagless g-machine 07:29:53 that's a cool paper 07:29:58 yes 07:30:11 if you read that one and also "Typing Haskell in Haskell" then you will have most of the specific knowledge to write a decent Haskell compiler 07:30:22 I understand the general points, some of the implementation bits so far, and the actual STG language itself. 07:30:40 I don't fully understand the in-memory representation 07:30:51 "How to make a fast curry" is another good paper that picks up from where the STG one ends 07:31:06 just that it's always a closure with free variables. 07:31:53 this is mainly because, as of late, my short term memory has been getting even worse than previously. :P 07:32:13 the in-memory representation of closures (including data and thunks) is in "Figure 4: The layout of a closure" on page 46 in my copy 07:32:45 oh I haven't gotten there 07:32:48 I am all the way on page 29 07:33:04 there's a pointer to an "info table", followed by whatever data fields (for constructors) or free variables (for thunks and function closures) 07:33:24 right 07:33:27 yes that's what I meant 07:33:29 the info table is static data; roughly speaking there's one for each lambda in the source, and one for each ADT constructor 07:33:53 yes I was reading about how closures can be reused and such. 07:34:12 and i guess one for each let binding, to implement that thunk 07:34:18 yes 07:34:30 it treats all the lets as "lambda forms" even if they have zero arguments 07:34:55 (which kind of brings some truth to the "zero argument function" claim... I guess at an operational level) 07:35:00 heh 07:35:03 of course mathematically a zero-argument function is meaningless. 07:35:42 looool I love taking the easy way out on easy math homework. 07:36:16 right, it's also meaningless at the level of haskell semantics 07:36:21 kmc: yes 07:36:31 it might be a reasonable way to understand the implementation details of certain haskell compilers 07:36:33 not that I actually know anything about haskell semantics 07:36:41 I just... know that it wouldn't make any sense. intuitively. 07:37:00 we're starting the course with some set theory. One of the questions asks for a subset of the powerset of the integers. I answer with the empty set. :P 07:37:11