< 1328227747 103629 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328227913 745698 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1328227995 918336 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1328228135 959833 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-32-139.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1328228136 545182 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-32-139.resnet.ucsb.edu QUIT :Changing host < 1328228136 597912 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1328230342 20700 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328233137 380589 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-020-013.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328233185 952676 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-049-007.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1328233600 586823 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328233784 975684 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-140.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1328233785 286411 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-140.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1328233785 340580 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1328236059 447014 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328236218 277515 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328236294 122399 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have figured out how to make a monad from any contravariant functor < 1328236703 519456 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328237055 2024 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328237082 68472 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opened up the comp, pushed the HD in (and it was quite easy and went in rather far), so I'll see if that fixes it < 1328237855 83671 :augur!~augur@216-164-57-20.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328238643 996115 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Quit: bye < 1328239052 95808 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328241380 329349 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.234 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328242705 214808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1328244164 985269 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-234-76-217.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MSleep < 1328248086 938924 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-225.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Verisign breach of unknown degree. < 1328248132 900805 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-225.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The security breach happened *2 years ago* but was only reported to the public *today*, courtesy of Verisign management being horribly fucked up. < 1328248148 30021 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-225.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a chance it extended to their SSL certs. < 1328250698 820216 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, I have managed to make up the monad from any contravariant functor, a generalization of what is done in the "infinite-search" package. < 1328250803 396653 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use (a -> Bool) -> a while I have used f a -> a where f is contravariant < 1328251407 992974 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-182-130.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328251408 398527 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-182-130.dsl.telstraclear.net QUIT :Changing host < 1328251408 452316 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1328255337 925273 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.234 QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/ < 1328256854 5258 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328258543 887978 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1328262606 375394 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1328262836 774251 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-020-013.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1328262928 789074 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-020-013.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328263751 402288 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1328263776 481846 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-140.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1328263776 696034 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-59-140.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1328263776 748807 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1328265579 493890 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-020-013.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328265791 92559 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-020-013.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328266479 329634 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1328269457 422265 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-020-013.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1328269628 83949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328271657 49014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiot spambot isn't even getting its links write < 1328271658 987951 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right < 1328271661 130452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"http:\\" < 1328271827 938838 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric ://:dʇʇɥ -- that's what weblinks look like in Australia. < 1328272748 994117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328273070 556897 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah how did you make that inverted colon < 1328273641 921829 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328273647 48120 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1328273754 881306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328273823 636031 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328274490 288370 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1328274497 336742 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1328274521 829356 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328274529 786293 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1328274590 701986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eats, shoots and leaves. < 1328274620 341672 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pandas, you fool, not Hexhamites < 1328274639 742004 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328274640 115973 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never know about Hexhamites. < 1328274656 424158 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What esolang is the topic in now? < 1328274657 978773 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I recently checked the weather in Hexham, since it was the first UK location that came to mind. < 1328274665 269437 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1328274674 607815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It loogs Glassy to me. < 1328274679 230107 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear < 1328274705 505192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The {M[m bit especially. < 1328274722 960011 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I thought you were talking about the weather < 1328274875 343041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The M.m function does (_o)O! -- that is, construct an O object and bind _o to it -- followed by "blah"(_o)o.? -- so "blah", on the stack, get the O.o method from _o, then run it. < 1328274906 979371 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o outputs a string? < 1328274913 208625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1328274936 157739 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon, if I could use it, Glass would be my favourite esolang < 1328274947 333871 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you're fizzie! I was meaning to ask you something! < 1328274964 314487 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does fungot's "fnord" come from? < 1328274964 658108 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yeah, riastradh is dynamic wind. why doesn't it expand then? < 1328274980 421733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm not mistaken, though, the program could have ben written by using a local variable 'o', as {M[moO!"blah"oo.?]} -- that'd be a bit more compact. < 1328275005 723088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Discordians' fnord. < 1328275011 519402 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1328275040 292789 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at religions < 1328275096 42215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of a misuse in that the fnords should be there in-between the "content" part of the sentence, but the way fungot does it replaces the "unknown" word by it. < 1328275096 244014 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i only get one t! < 1328275118 971879 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1328275119 64736 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1328275123 179492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would look pretty silly. And remind people of elliott. < 1328275123 380050 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now that could be nice, for a simple language can be used < 1328275140 19543 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1328275150 469922 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328275164 387531 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know I had the keyboard shortcut... < 1328275196 40696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the old "join #2,000 to celebrate the millennium" joke? < 1328275203 82917 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I do not < 1328275238 987958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an IRC peculiarity; "JOIN #a,#b,#c" can be used to join multiple channels at once, while "JOIN 0" in fact parts all channels. < 1328275252 805187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in quite many clients "/join #2,000" will end up parting from all channels. < 1328275260 174315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In some, it joins #2 and #000 instead.) < 1328275296 962059 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like the equally old "use /disco to turn on the lights" joke. < 1328275326 363501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Many clients auto-complete that to a /disconnect.) < 1328275337 787545 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, fungot seems rather condescending of elliott < 1328275338 333273 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: now everything is screwed up a bit on where you are coding. it just exposes you to often irrelevant low-level details. < 1328275368 945329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot holds no respect for us meat-sacks in general. < 1328275369 243371 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: more like java) perl ml modules that define two different types of source code < 1328275378 798244 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1328275378 998904 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i don't know until where it should < 1328275392 358202 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot fungot < 1328275392 563287 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you would have otherwise written in scheme < 1328275469 250425 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addquote fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used < 1328275469 790110 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: just dig out some snippets of code in the wrapper. maybe for these people: it lets me name things fnord, like yours < 1328275481 493976 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's ^ < 1328275488 186375 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^addquote fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used < 1328275492 497526 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's fungot < 1328275492 729817 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: because i'm just confused < 1328275495 113143 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaarhg! < 1328275504 367638 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? < 1328275508 137796 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used < 1328275508 352265 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: when the value is x. if it loses fnord, then? :p < 1328275518 323199 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: wisdom/: Is a directory < 1328275535 990085 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1328275539 751823 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ @ \ No \ addquote \ allquotes \ calc \ define \ delquote \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ google \ hatesgeo \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ marco \ paste \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping \ prefixes \ qc \ quote \ quotes \ roll \ searchlog \ toutf8 \ translate \ translatefromto \ translateto \ units \ url < 1328275548 922861 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes < 1328275553 372257 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29440 < 1328275572 903857 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :807) fungot: Yeah, "fungott" would [...] remind people of elliott. fizzie: now that could be nice for a simple language can be used < 1328275609 143396 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny reply for `? there. < 1328275618 335746 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took too many tries to add that quote. I tried /, !, and ^ before getting it right < 1328275652 12407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fungot < 1328275652 615366 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aha... mediawiki takes care of such odd cases. so i sad down and wrote 30 lines of c < 1328275656 213200 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot cannot be stopped by that sword alone. < 1328275665 357069 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ngevd < 1328275668 240577 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​JbQ.3IG.m-l6c.'\..=q)^..3.X..7mB3^d.9Z.).a...GlӟM;ew4?쮊8,..^J9;Y4.sX\bj1@'h\rNX}8'/j_-..IΕ.ߎd;.6'_mE.c@K7. \ X.g2&d3.ųM.rJl]]C..d୛t{*bttٍ#j.UZU"V`N_rlI.ZY#. \ ]v6}3rP&n.(7Ns.8evi^jd |..Io<{.+.n`.&7"w.˷$".p;P.%VއvA..wx*PQ6dB^1}u㯗c. < 1328275703 709120 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the expression "to sad down". (Unless it's just a typo for 'sat'.) < 1328275726 218575 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I believe it's more likely to be the latter < 1328275745 748250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadding down is an appropriate prelude for writing some C. < 1328275748 46719 :pkzip!~a@94.159.235.75 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328275759 586076 :pkzip!~a@94.159.235.75 QUIT :Client Quit < 1328275936 415892 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328276118 637121 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-121.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1328276118 939135 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-121.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1328276118 992569 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1328276319 744247 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328279840 860700 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D532.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328281557 480425 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1328281855 4623 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1328282408 919488 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1328283312 613891 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-118.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328283324 289878 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-249-225.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328283919 310026 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh. School's actually open today. < 1328283928 295554 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'm going in. < 1328283941 379864 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How’s the weather in there? < 1328284171 339303 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blizzard. < 1328284699 105421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1328284738 202640 :MSleep!~fyrc@pa-67-234-76-217.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1328285722 474566 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-66-85.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1328286684 909248 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328286704 867816 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1328287004 713148 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328287098 692722 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1328287553 205931 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1328289150 486877 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1328289270 388523 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328290796 975567 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328290939 981950 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328291115 925637 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, Glass in the /topic. < 1328291274 262108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Am I right that it could be the more compact {M[moO!"...."oo.?]} too? < 1328291303 351743 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!glass {M[moO!"Let's find out!"oo.?]} < 1328291305 358697 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's find out! < 1328291308 637064 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ < 1328291334 515242 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variables that start with lower-case letters are class variables, so it's namespace pollution is all. < 1328291347 203546 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1328291443 966574 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328291497 368942 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tropicOfCancer = (cancer, zeroLat) Ecliptic Tropical Earth; -- I am trying to think of a kind of ephemeris software in Haskell........ < 1328291548 35813 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! < 1328291575 149528 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tropicOfCancer = FixedSphericalCoordinates (cancer, zeroLat) Ecliptic Tropical Earth; < 1328291617 472793 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1328291631 728987 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any ideas? < 1328291719 940216 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328291828 349041 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is ephemersis < 1328291836 270977 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1328291851 568466 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ephemeris is a way to figure out position of planets, sun, moon, etc < 1328291867 613049 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :By using calculation instead of having to do observation < 1328292195 792064 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1D532.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328292211 967368 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you _believe_ the the celectial bodies affect our lifes in some way? < 1328292254 617473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Mostly the sun and moon; the others wouldn't do much. But I don't believe they affect our lives in the way that astrologers say they do; they are just using superstitious stuff. < 1328292270 417286 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe.. is see < 1328292323 915555 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-121.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1328292324 357084 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-121.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1328292324 410116 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1328292325 635064 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why that interest in astrology? is just a technical challange? < 1328292345 958629 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that's just it. < 1328292362 247946 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, as well as the things in common to astrology with astronomy, and some things are useful in both even if not common in either, I suppose. < 1328292595 293611 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When doing some kinds of calculation (including calendars), conventions of both astrology and astronomy can be useful; in addition, astrology does have some artistic uses even though divination doesn't work. So, functions of ephemeris can be useful for astronomy as well; and I know about their conventions such as right ascensions, declination, hour angle, etc. < 1328292677 330543 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone once wrote a article about astrology for astronomers. They tell how the conventions are similar and differences, and aspects, and so on. In my opinion, it is useful to combine astrology, astronomy, and calendar date/time stuff, into one program, since all three functions can be used together. < 1328292790 890521 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. there is a common determinator between both of them < 1328292870 104438 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'though im not sure if between is the correct proposition < 1328292941 961104 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are things known and unknown.. and in between is hagb4rds ignorance < 1328293099 961378 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328294205 540524 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the worst thing about astrology is that the existence of the pseudoscience prevents us from investigating the social science of actual connections between birthdates and personalities, which would naturally stem from the interaction between environment and mating behavior of any animals with a short estrous cycle (e.g. humans). < 1328294255 819234 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: People can do it if they want to! But the exist does make people argue about it probably; still, some people can try to do so. < 1328294438 584424 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do *you* have ideas how to do so more specifically, anyways?? < 1328294514 546403 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno.. guess its like tarot. it helps us to reflect on ourselfs < 1328294569 568480 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-118.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah, tarot. European card games used for divination. < 1328294611 845084 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hadb4rd: Well, yes, you can reflect on ourselves using various divinatory methods (but not for divination). You probably mean cartomancy rather than tarot; tarot is simply a deck of cards. Psychological cartomancy uses a tarot deck with more art than ordinary decks; you could probably find an article about that. < 1328294636 310447 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, thats i mean < 1328294641 753684 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+what < 1328294765 662480 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know a few games involving tarot cards, including a few modern ones, and one which uses icehouse pyraminds in addition to the cards. < 1328294811 1561 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was studying crowley for a while < 1328294874 234303 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess the problem bout science and axioms is it answers how but not why < 1328294888 359432 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+its < 1328294912 88102 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Science can answer why to a limited extent. Kind of. < 1328294935 84591 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course there are problems with science but it is the best we have. < 1328294985 735890 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b681c.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote s.o. i do not know: problems are hidden opportunities ;) < 1328295007 155249 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: Yes, that too! Is good. < 1328295069 735754 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One example of artistic use for astrology is someone made up a time of birth for Harry Potter. (Of course it is still arbitrary like many arts but at least they have something to do.) < 1328295438 118244 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best way to reflect yourself is with a mirror. < 1328295507 186168 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes I agree < 1328295881 794863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1328297693 14774 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1328298781 142282 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328298790 366684 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@cpc1-sgyl29-2-0-cust632.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host < 1328298790 422391 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328299141 65466 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-121.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1328299141 406499 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-121.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1328299141 462310 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1328299320 86631 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328299328 326482 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1328299832 949999 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1328299853 275264 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328300007 487523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1328300267 450485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> reverse "elliott sacked as bearer of Element of Loyalty, seeking pegasus replacement | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Now slightly on-topic | Now failing to construct an esolang in THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY." < 1328300268 303338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ".YAW .ELBISSOP .TSROW .EHT ni gnalose na tcurtsnoc ot gniliaf woN | cipot-... < 1328300274 612873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fff < 1328300277 382114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rev test < 1328300277 477860 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :tset < 1328300283 701938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> rev "elliott sacked as bearer of Element of Loyalty, seeking pegasus replacement | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Now slightly on-topic | Now failing to construct an esolang in THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY." < 1328300284 822445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `rev' < 1328300288 61039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rev "elliott sacked as bearer of Element of Loyalty, seeking pegasus replacement | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Now slightly on-topic | Now failing to construct an esolang in THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY." < 1328300288 297729 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :".YAW .ELBISSOP .TSROW .EHT ni gnalose na tcurtsnoc ot gniliaf woN | cipot-no ylthgils woN | /ciretose_/sgol/gro.udoc//:ptth | tnemecalper susagep gnikees ,ytlayoL fo tnemelE fo reraeb sa dekcas ttoille" < 1328300312 142460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :0>:#,_@ < 1328300314 442221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1328300321 373405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :0".YAW .ELBISSOP .TSROW .EHT ni gnalose na tcurtsnoc ot gniliaf woN | cipot-no ylthgils woN | /ciretose_/sgol/gro.udoc//:ptth | tnemecalper susagep gnikees ,ytlayoL fo tnemelE fo reraeb sa dekcas ttoille">:#,_@ < 1328300343 65573 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you find the mistake in this program? http://sprunge.us/gbUF < 1328301020 293936 :wanham!dc853ae1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.133.58.225 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328301044 977863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome wanham < 1328301049 683114 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanham: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1328301102 762833 :chicken!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2 < 1328301276 569350 :Saizan!~saizan@li265-65.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328301312 78618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he made it more official http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=902 < 1328301813 133122 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this just his second $100k thing? Funny how he's already "that guy who always offers $100k for unlikely things". < 1328301833 979637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the first one was $200k < 1328301853 240707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Well, "large amount of money" anyways. < 1328301902 678345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd suppose gil kalai suggested it in jest, anyway :P < 1328301933 784437 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In not-so-related news, no distribution-related wisdom from the CoaP forum, but 12 views of which only 2 are mine, anyway.) < 1328302016 107836 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1328302054 8150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that 13, or something < 1328302327 290485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you have the full sequence of results saved? to check if "every 10 seconds" matters, you might try to graph them in order retrieved or something... < 1328302396 173340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure; I guess I'll try that too, when I get to a real computer. < 1328302463 715234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe check if the ratios change much in subintervals < 1328302519 175188 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a goodie. < 1328302571 877322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the same one was quite consistently 1.3 times the mean during the run. But that's just a feeling. < 1328302642 606603 :wanham!dc853ae1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.133.58.225 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1328303210 263969 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the first? < 1328303216 411257 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first prize thing < 1328303268 516340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it that P=NP proof? < 1328303269 20963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to vinay deolalikar in case his P != NP proof turned out to be correct / repairable < 1328303294 370590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which quickly started looking rather unlikely < 1328303305 175508 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328303319 50101 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1328303323 609805 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hi! < 1328303360 732955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If only they'd prove P != NP, then we'd finally know that N != 1. < 1328303391 537782 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The topic is making me read backwards < 1328303395 25208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats fizzie -----### < 1328303407 883865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doog yrev :benaT < 1328303423 392798 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!befunge 0".YAW .ELBISSOP .TSROW .EHT ni gnalose na tcurtsnoc ot gniliaf woN | cipot-no ylthgils woN | /ciretose_/sgol/gro.udoc//:ptth | tnemecalper susagep gnikees ,ytlayoL fo tnemelE fo reraeb sa dekcas ttoille">:#,_@ < 1328303424 954392 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 Unsupported instruction 'Y' (0x59) (maybe not Befunge-93?) \ Unsupported instruction 'A' (0x41) (maybe not Befunge-93?) \ Unsupported instruction 'W' (0x57) (maybe not Befunge-93?) \ 121 Unsupported instruction 'E' (0x45) (maybe not Befunge-93?) \ Unsupported instruction 'L' (0x4c) (maybe not Befunge-93?) \ Unsupported instruction 'B' (0x42) (maybe not Befunge-93?) \ Unsupported instruction 'I' (0x49) (maybe not < 1328303441 674248 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-227-48.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328303452 55800 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stringmode doesn't seem to work < 1328303452 757004 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1328303454 929078 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's been Befungized. (Or is that over 80 characters? Funge-98ized in that case.) < 1328303461 873103 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!befunge98 0".YAW .ELBISSOP .TSROW .EHT ni gnalose na tcurtsnoc ot gniliaf woN | cipot-no ylthgils woN | /ciretose_/sgol/gro.udoc//:ptth | tnemecalper susagep gnikees ,ytlayoL fo tnemelE fo reraeb sa dekcas ttoille">:#,_@ < 1328303462 636267 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott sacked as bearer of Element of Loyalty, seeking pegasus replacement | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | Now slightly on-topic | Now failing to construct an esolang in THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY. < 1328303470 931890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see it is. < 1328303479 750213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1328303502 91000 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328303520 102032 :jix!~jix@dronf.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1328303527 63174 :jix!~jix@dronf.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328303541 820182 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome MoALTz < 1328303545 873937 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MoALTz: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1328303565 953940 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-227-48.as43234.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1328303586 747710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a rare moment of on-topicness, too! < 1328303604 44213 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I return things to normal? < 1328303628 477077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "normal" you mean "talking about everything except esolangs", right? < 1328303631 328870 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1328303638 812580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may. < 1328303646 559567 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My gran's in hospital < 1328303647 333062 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So how're things in the *real* esoteric programming channel that you're spying for? Are they all jubilous for our recent... quietudiness? < 1328303660 381338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1328303686 562171 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a single-channel person < 1328303696 172963 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, new esolang < 1328303719 24389 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: HEY YOU FREAK, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT HERE < 1328303756 531598 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess it beats hospital talk. < 1328303767 320387 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a CA, so can someone experienced with ALPACA help me? < 1328303767 521800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might still be about that. < 1328303776 752624 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328303787 688512 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1328303795 1632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We haven't heard details. Maybe it's a hospitals-and-grandmothers-themed CA. < 1328303823 160764 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328303832 990226 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't consider myself "experienced" with ALPACA, although i've read the spec once, i guess < 1328303844 506498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, it's falling down massive shafts based < 1328303886 98356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound like it'd exclude hospitals, almost the opposite. < 1328303898 127346 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't mention hospitals < 1328303900 859776 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or grandmothers < 1328303911 839518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1328303970 695086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reminded of the danish "Riget" series (which he's never seen, but which an old student friend loved) < 1328303982 587735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it had both hospitals and shafts. < 1328304000 154796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not quite sure about the shafts. < 1328304107 171134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confirms the shafts using google < 1328304181 844914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kingdom_(TV_miniseries) < 1328304360 747278 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1328304385 811611 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-121.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1328304386 156087 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-121.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1328304386 211385 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1328304501 168843 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf JOIN :#esoteric < 1328304506 311187 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1328304518 123938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome bbear < 1328304521 951184 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbear: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1328304612 541707 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to know :: do you know if it would ever be possible to program a computer with an infinite amount of memory ? < 1328304637 371534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming is easy. getting one on the other hand... < 1328304661 61123 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbear, in the real world, it is impossible to create a computer with infinite memory < 1328304690 229812 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, we had a discussion about this on ##c < 1328304723 70298 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a question slightly different would be if ever such a computer exist, would it be possible to program with it ? Would the « programming » word would have a sense ? < 1328304731 740206 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes < 1328304741 148364 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would definitely be possible to program with it < 1328304767 128434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/mezzoseq.png -- Does that look periodic to you? It looks periodic to me. < 1328304812 874519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1328304830 111743 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the ten thousand visits on the X axis, with the small differences in Y axis giving the index of which thing came out. I've just wrapped it into ten lines to make it a bit more clearer.) < 1328304922 163899 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should permute the indices a bit so that it'd look even more periodic. < 1328304962 272645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :do that. < 1328305049 442713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that, one _might_ suspect the script is keeping a counter... < 1328305103 470768 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbear, with something like brainfuck, you could do [+>], which would use up all the memory after an infinite amount of time < 1328305108 783660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, the irregularities would be others looking at the page simultaneously. < 1328305109 240608 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PART :#esoteric < 1328305116 948482 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you imagine a language to program games ? < 1328305122 749305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *now* it is very periodic indeed. (Same URL.) < 1328305135 11014 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1328305171 638822 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbear, you could (if you really want to) program games in brainfuck, assuming you didn't care about graphics < 1328305175 672783 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, yeah... I was guessing that an infinite memory could make the system unstable because parts of the system could be uncontrolable in a finite time. < 1328305180 867051 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Doesn't immediately explain why one value would be biased over the others, though. < 1328305185 967040 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But here we are talking about every language. < 1328305194 80085 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean i want to free my imagination. < 1328305203 841236 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbear, any part of the system you have accessed, you can access again in finite time < 1328305216 836276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm it looks like it relatively frequently jumps back in the sequence. was your 10 sec retrieval very regular or did you take many breaks? < 1328305286 573680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i don't suppose you kept the datestamps? :D < 1328305325 176677 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The file timestamps are probably still there; but I didn't take any breaks at all. < 1328305332 476591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1328305389 353229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it was timed with a "sleep 10", so it's not an accurate frequency; in particular the delay between successive fetches depends on how long the fetch itself takes. < 1328305464 487355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so if it's timestamp based, random network delay may explain the irregularities < 1328305552 23702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hunch the graph is not accurate enough to see how much it fetches the same twice in a row < 1328305644 691265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: could you find the frequencies of the _consecutive_ pairs? < 1328305687 11878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that for each item, there's one particular which is most frequently given next, but the alternatives might also give information < 1328305711 741439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well that's just 2-grams, isn't it.) < 1328305731 163608 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1328305759 918939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose timestamps are also necessary to check < 1328305760 220951 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1328305829 709036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hey, there's a DMM reply. < 1328305834 841548 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out it's time()%11. < 1328305839 809227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1328305922 487903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the "Wow!" signal, the most common duplicate, is also the one that is the longest. Presumably it has a higher likelihood of taking longer than the ten seconds required to walk backwards in the time()%11 sequence. < 1328305941 754369 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/duplicate/version/ < 1328306101 474512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose if you gave a table of frequencies, usual order in the common sequence, and page length, that should explain most of it... < 1328306138 154996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the longer, the more likely to redo it. hm right. < 1328306271 181825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :are frequencies and length in completely the same order? < 1328306344 382272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no. i'm pretty sure the Langerhans one was shorter than the Xabadunis. < 1328306442 114391 :bbear!~bbear@2a02:8420:51d5:b100:16da:e9ff:feed:d9bf QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1328306443 137526 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (sum . concat . tails . flip (uncurry enumFromThenTo) 1 . fmap pred . join (,)) 12 < 1328306444 757710 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 364 < 1328306445 95306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they were, no; just the Wow! signal one was the longest. < 1328306462 980069 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since removing the top two made it indistinguishable from uniform, i suppose only the two longest were long enough to overcome the natural variation. < 1328306465 872140 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many things are there on the nth day of christmas < 1328306476 656828 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all preceding ones < 1328306478 543551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: was the second one at least second longest too? < 1328306486 902051 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (sum . concat . tails . flip (uncurry enumFromThenTo) 1 . fmap pred . join (,)) < 1328306487 723591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a. (Num a, Enum a) => a -> a < 1328306523 581414 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Counts and byte-sizes: http://sprunge.us/QZPd < 1328306523 674973 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1 (+) $ scanl1 (+) [1..12] < 1328306524 687220 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,4,10,20,35,56,84,120,165,220,286,364] < 1328306534 915954 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is likely shorter < 1328306542 682952 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some correlation, but not quite the same order. < 1328306582 329073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the sequence seems to quite often step back more than one step, so if there's a bias where those skips happen, then the sequence order would also be a factor. < 1328306597 877974 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (last . scanl1 (+) . scanl1 (+) . enumFromTo 1) 12 < 1328306599 455013 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 364 < 1328306617 809796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it has something to do with exceeding 4096 bytes... < 1328306658 300087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> sum $ scanl1 (+) [1..12] < 1328306659 185574 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 364 < 1328306707 656668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: btw did i mention that using null and head/tail instead of pattern matching is usually considered bad haskell style? < 1328306726 874582 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1328306737 522588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when you use the null to determine whether the head/tail is safe. < 1328306748 917162 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could also have something to do with other boundaries; the standard MTU (max packet size) tends to be 1500, sometimes smaller, and there's the HTTP overhead + TCP overhead + IP overhead + whatever-is-the-network-layer overhead. < 1328306920 723643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it might be gzipped over the HTTP wire.) < 1328307072 600335 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh hm to get redone there doesn't have to be a _large_ network delay, just enough to wrap from 0.9 seconds to 11.0 instead of 10.9 < 1328307093 710300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*extra delay < 1328307426 813116 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey QUIT :Quit: The Other Game < 1328307593 623665 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328307610 518475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh hm have you logged in as Ngevd since i sent those lambdabot messages? < 1328307649 478437 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can we invent Haskell*#?@~ which is a new kind of group of extensions for Haskell which include many strange thing in addition to the normal things < 1328307662 99929 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you sent them to Taneb < 1328307667 530330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did? < 1328307677 617850 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and I cleared them because I logread them < 1328307697 185236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1328307764 986804 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh, and here I was thinking you thought there was probably something embarrassing in them and therefore @clear'd instead of @messages'd. (I'm not entirely sure why I thought that, since I suppose you'd just have read them privately in that case.) < 1328307765 438581 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sounds like what the ghc people are doing all time *badum-tish* < 1328307771 102777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all the time < 1328307827 717242 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They are but a lot of things I proposed are the things other people hate. So that is why to invent new one including things too strange for most people in #haskell even though some people in #esoteric might like it, not everyone does < 1328307853 679939 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as the -XNoEnglishKinds extension which almost everyone in #haskell channel hates < 1328307898 617324 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does -XNoEnglishKinds do? < 1328307929 174866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i suspect that if they had considered polymorphic kinds from the start, they would have used alphanumeric kind names from the start too < 1328307980 530572 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Changes OpenKind back to ? and Constraint to & leaving the alphanumeric names open for custom datakinds and so on < 1328308011 999538 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy < 1328308073 614143 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I don't really know enough to appreciate the significance of that < 1328308100 913143 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k (->) < 1328308101 863990 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? -> ? -> * < 1328308160 582477 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This, I am afraid, means nothing to me < 1328308177 884337 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as -XMoreNotation, -XImprovedNaturalNumberKinds, -XInstanceDisambiguation, -XDefaultInstances, -XInlineLLVM, -XTemplateHaskellKinds, and so on... most people hate these things < 1328308215 725121 :Saizan!~saizan@li265-65.members.linode.com PART :#esoteric < 1328308221 111961 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the new macro system as well < 1328308264 212638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means that the -> type constructor takes two arguments, the first being a boxed or unboxed type, the second being that or an unboxed tuple, and returns a boxed type. < 1328308295 482521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the upshot is that you can have haskell function types that handle some unboxed values, although the functions themselves are always boxed. < 1328308306 475127 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do boxed and unboxed mean in this context? < 1328308321 436184 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel kinda stupid at the moment < 1328308336 562426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boxed is the usual kind of haskell value, implemented as a pointer to a lazy thunk < 1328308336 858803 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that matter, what does tuple mean in this context? < 1328308416 959839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unboxed is a value represented without pointers and laziness, like a sequence of bytes in any other language < 1328308437 523633 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that makes sense < 1328308448 366364 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems the wrong way round to me? < 1328308449 390163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc uses that internally for efficiency < 1328308483 154341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an unboxed tuple is a tuple of several unboxed values, which can only be returned from functions, not passed into them. < 1328308527 713362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the values of an unboxed tuple may end up being put directly on the stack or in registers) < 1328308541 984675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src IO < 1328308542 494434 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source not found. Maybe you made a typo? < 1328308550 395716 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as -XCompatibility703, -XNoParameterTypeClasses, -XCombinedInstances, -XNoUnicode, -XExtendedOperatorNames, and so on < 1328308552 344209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly @src has removed that stuff < 1328308600 879380 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, because functions are boxed, they can flit about in the mind of the haskell program without being in a specific place in memory < 1328308618 967462 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can simultaneously look at bits of memory and other things flitting about < 1328308646 286501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: unboxed things can be copied of course, like in C... < 1328308649 81460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Int < 1328308649 322012 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Int = I# Int# < 1328308672 813312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example there: Int is implemented as a datatype wrapping an unboxed Int# < 1328308680 764398 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how you call the Haskell that I proposed or how to change GHC or anything like that; write a new one; I don't know how do you know? < 1328308706 921264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc's optimizer may frequently remove the entire data wrapping, and handle words in memory instead < 1328308715 208298 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't elliott working on a Haskell Compiler a while back? < 1328308749 16970 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes that is a good idea. < 1328308768 157244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well of course a data type is also implemented in memory, but with all that laziness support included < 1328308771 321323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1328308805 254673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i don't quite remember. < 1328308835 464378 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was trying to think of a name because Hexham Haskell Compiler looked stupid? < 1328308879 11418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, standard haskell has only one base kind * which is boxed types, while ghc adds a heap of others for supporting unboxed things. < 1328308899 104572 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my proposal added two more + and & < 1328308920 186825 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would they be? < 1328308931 420748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other haskellers already added & except with the name Constraint < 1328308944 457524 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ for natural number types and & is what is now called Constraint < 1328308990 351977 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except mine is different where + is a subkind of * which now means that the built-in type (->) is the type of array with a fixed number of elements. < 1328309112 270260 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is a new kind of n+k patterns (different from the old one) usable both in type level and value level, with types of kind + < 1328309173 679508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: n+k patterns? now you're just _asking_ for them to hate it :P < 1328309185 83506 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-234-76-217.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1328309249 473434 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do hate ordinary n+k patterns < 1328309256 163004 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is a new kind < 1328309361 758790 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is only usable with values of types of kind + (as well as types of kind + themself in type level patterns) < 1328309433 603065 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about a graphical version of Haskell, possibly similar to Scratch, App Inventor, et al. < 1328309466 564703 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty difficult < 1328309524 40865 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: See? These are a new n+k patterns which are different than the old n+k patterns. I also hate the old n+k patterns but this new kind can explain natural numbers in general < 1328309543 626276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1328309674 601321 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinds would make it simpler < 1328309739 420132 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1328309740 774435 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-168-254.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1328309749 98896 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328309843 571322 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example: type family X (n :: +) (t :: *); type instance X 0 x = x; type instance X (n + 1) x = X n x -> X n x; is a kind of the new n+k patterns for natural number kinds, at the type level. But they could be used at value level as well. < 1328309897 859860 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it understand now? < 1328309922 500788 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1328310096 397934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm except for notation, won't this be essentially that new type-to-kind lifting extension applied to data Nat = Zero | Succ Nat < 1328310146 229983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm not into the details of that, though) < 1328310258 273313 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read about that, but I don't think it is exactly the same thing, because my proposal puts + as a subkind of * so for example, (100 -> Bool) is a valid type which means an array of 100 bits < 1328310313 62266 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And like I specified, these new n+k patterns would also be usable in value patterns as well as type patterns) < 1328311002 68572 :pir^2!~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1328311226 552349 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-240-104.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328311237 128166 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-118.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1328311276 999371 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is to write new versions of the list operations: length, (!!), findIndex, and so on, using: class Peanoid x where { zeroP :: x; succP :: x -> x; }; class Copeanoid x where { predP :: x -> Maybe x; }; (These are a specific kind of pointed unary systems, and some variations on them.) < 1328311294 379545 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This could be done even in existing Haskell compiler, simply using alternative Prelude < 1328311303 323670 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or other libraries can be written easily. < 1328311441 760701 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(h : t) !! i = maybe h (t !!) $ predP i; length [] = zeroP; length (h : t) = succP $ length t; < 1328311543 43020 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether you would prefer new versions of the list operations defined like this or not < 1328312505 111083 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1328312842 513423 :mrjbq7!~jbenedik@24-205-204-86.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1328312878 935742 :mrjbq7!~jbenedik@24-205-204-86.dhcp.reno.nv.charter.com PART :#esoteric < 1328312972 750829 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like the word "ciretose" < 1328313200 786252 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There doesn't seem very good document for "preprocessor-tools" package.