< 1330214405 557870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you _could_ use build >:) < 1330214409 930780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume. < 1330214414 79068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, traversing the whole thing is probably the best because of the 90% case < 1330214422 966400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. exactly one element satisfying the predicate < 1330214442 768465 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you don't need to construct the list, either. < 1330214472 284519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, I see < 1330214513 860797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: traverse it; remember the first element that passes you encounter with a 1/1 chance, then if you encounter a second, replace it with that with a 1/2 chance, then a 1/3 chance, etc < 1330214519 745310 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1330214523 31909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last element you end up with will be random and equally weighted < 1330214531 605519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep that's what i was thinking < 1330214545 185046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect that performs badly for the common case < 1330214551 578373 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330214566 927339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is that if i pre-traverse, I can avoid doing /any/ RNG generations < 1330214576 94562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think GHC's RNG is fast < 1330214597 632886 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except for the final index, i assume... < 1330214608 108528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that ends up well for the common case < 1330214610 86412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh? < 1330214619 516766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant I can avoid it if there's only one satisfier < 1330214621 320790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's only one element, you don't RNG call, you only need an RNG call for the second < 1330214636 868483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1330214640 16768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the rare case where it's bad, as it uses O(n that satisfy predicate - 1) RNG calls < 1330214710 551645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm wondering however, if there's a way to do this only selecting n random bits where 2^(n-1) < length of list <= 2^n < 1330214809 999575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i mean, using just a single RNG number in some way, changing its interpretation as you discover more elements < 1330214830 490079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1330214855 543103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's that usual problem with 1/3 not being k/2^i < 1330214913 382702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, this is essentially a fisher-yates shuffle, except you're only keeping the first element. < 1330215005 590672 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something smells kind of fisher-yatesy to me < 1330215049 243036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was surprised that Fisher-Yates even had a name, it was so obvious to me < 1330215057 161798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I implemented it myself before I'd ever heard of the algo having a name) < 1330215085 625020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: come on that was even worse than yours < 1330215107 412457 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the reflexive property of equality has a name, too. < 1330215175 848954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the reflexive property of equality < 1330215249 872832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: How did you manage to write ///? Did an angel beam down and give you the spec? < 1330215272 74857 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe; I don't remember. < 1330215294 700941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: SUSPICIOUS. < 1330215317 858757 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I didn't do it on purpose. < 1330215336 476573 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the cutting edge in /// technology, anyway? < 1330215388 169713 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: ask oerjan, he invented most of it < 1330215390 957741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki////#Simpler_counter, http://esolangs.org/wiki////#Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag_interpreter < 1330215406 882058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think oerjan is the main esolang programmer here, in that he does more ground-breaking actual programming in esolangs than anyone else < 1330215408 775806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine#itflabtijtslwi is the latest program. ok not strictly /// < 1330215421 413579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also http://esolangs.org/wiki/Itflabtijtslwi#Examples < 1330215429 903016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1330215439 54614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: but probably http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/bct.sss and its generator http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/BCT.hs are the most impressive things < 1330215440 622623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the deadfish one < 1330215465 628671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i linked that < 1330215474 30645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't < 1330215474 231422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#itflabtijtslwi < 1330215482 348114 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks BCT is more impressiv
< 1330215483 38778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1330215556 660224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought you meant there was a truth-machine in BCT < 1330215562 582106 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that surely can't be very hard < 1330215581 348236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. although the difficult parts are different, with the BCT the hard thing was encoding things as /\, for Deadfish i had to get arithmetic including printing < 1330215664 942615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much easier to do /// with more characters, most of the programs in that style are made "by hand" < 1330215674 420770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BCT doesn't have input < 1330215678 377099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be exceptionally hard < 1330215681 633338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(modulo a little vim substitution) < 1330215690 823293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: languages that don't take input get to do it by having the input encoded into the program < 1330215701 13846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd want two programs, one with a 0 and the other with a 1, that were otherwise the same < 1330215701 367566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know, we would have cnosidered BCT impressive even without the \/ thing :P < 1330215708 63336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :P < 1330215713 2451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did truth-machine behaviour < 1330215723 436295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the \/ thing makes loops easier to write, I think < 1330215730 200093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1330215746 60868 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I would slightly expect a quoted program in /// to contain no slashes of either direction at all. < 1330215805 837163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: um no. the \/ loops are precisely like the other loops, except for choice of encoding of tokens < 1330215821 136441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1330215842 406351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the first looping program was essentially different < 1330215900 33131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw have you thought about the asymptotic complexity of ///? < 1330215905 987538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., how much slower it is at doing things < 1330215908 982201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a different and much less efficient method for removing the quoting. < 1330215924 270454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since obviously it isn't equally "fast" as brainfuck or the like < 1330215937 286423 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... the Python standard lib includes Turtle? < 1330215960 857374 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does logo's! < 1330215969 256889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm. well i have thought that a more efficient implementation could avoid checking substrings that obviously don't match and such things, and so get better asymptotic behavior < 1330216002 515121 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking up Logo just gives me Sburb flashbacks, < 1330216014 551024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like we've discussed before, just not restarting at the beginning of the string every time would help < 1330216091 944018 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you assume that every substitution takes time 1? Can it do things as fast as... < 1330216098 517158 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :What *is* our standard for speed, anyway? < 1330216170 550697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right, I meant more in terms of how slower it is at common tasks < 1330216173 212099 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :An FSA with a couple of registers, each capable of storing arbitrary integers, attached to some RAM indexed by the integers, with each storage spot capable of storing... an integer, maybe with a size restriction? < 1330216178 68584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like arithmetic, and sorting < 1330216194 27393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: our standard is something like a machine equipped with arbitrary indexing into an array of bignums < 1330216195 713297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and while loops < 1330216201 57766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as complexities go < 1330216207 537045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetic is O(1), etc. < 1330216229 169698 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Hindley-Milner]] is the worst-written thing ever. < 1330216253 493373 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :But isn't that machine capable of doing arithmetic in constant time? < 1330216253 962484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: on our wiki, or on wikipedia? < 1330216259 938568 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP. < 1330216264 710392 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, because you said so.) < 1330216275 757840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: yes < 1330216282 404347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: which applies to standard complexity analysis too < 1330216289 376409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on my watchlist, it's been rewritten a lot lately but it may be getting worse rather than better < 1330216292 825471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: looks ok to me < 1330216310 576546 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at the 'syntax' secion. < 1330216312 302822 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the word "arithmetic" can apply to two different properties, though. < 1330216313 382807 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*section < 1330216321 105049 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perhaps a bit irritating, type variables are monotypes, either." < 1330216321 903490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it was split from type inference, sort of < 1330216349 451557 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, problems. < 1330216370 759279 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either the one where you have the numbers in your registers already, or the one where you're just given individual digits and have to calculate with those. < 1330216380 971778 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, that still allows you to do multiplication in linear time... < 1330216403 245011 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"^ Luis Damas (1985): Type Assignment in Programming Languages. PhD thesis, University of Edinburg (CST-33-85) < 1330216403 433098 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1330216411 290762 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to stab whoever wrote that citation. < 1330216442 71794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edinburg < 1330216443 396732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stab them with a bagpipe < 1330216456 602136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1330216460 909059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*your bagpipes < 1330216513 123458 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you may not realize is that all the mistakes are intentional and the whole article is a troll < 1330216514 207393 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wherefore? < 1330216515 937096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, did we ever decide on a slogan for the wiki? < 1330216530 147125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :solider than thou < 1330216541 16705 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1330216552 520864 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, because there is no University of Edinburg. < 1330216569 570410 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is, it's in helsinki < 1330216574 110378 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a University of Edinburgh, which Luis Damas went to. < 1330216584 216325 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, yeah, that's true. Plenty of Edinburgs, but no Edinburg has a University of it. < 1330216586 74856 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which "a" Luis Damas went to < 1330216599 943705 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburg,_Texas < 1330216609 538712 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that this is a place sears at my very soul. < 1330216634 198743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think if you assume a substitution takes time 1, then /// should be able to do as well as a minsky machine. < 1330216636 770437 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just hear Americans saying "Edinburg" over and over and over and over < 1330216711 285578 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I couldn't understand that article no matter who it was written by. < 1330216711 656403 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330216737 839313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so, not very well then :P < 1330216753 366749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't need your unary registers to do more than a constant number of substitutions per step < 1330216775 118272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm wait < 1330216791 485184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an actual minsky machine interpreter would be slower, right? < 1330216795 88625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think you can also get a TM < 1330216797 40544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it needs its own main loop around every operation < 1330216842 56873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can have data that isn't copied through the main loop mechanicm < 1330216843 436750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1330216861 973744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1330216865 489218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the advantages of not coding solely with \/, btw < 1330216900 546697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as if we needed more :P < 1330216963 165158 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can everything that can be written using \, /, and two other symbols be written using \, /, and one other symbol, with only a constant penalty? < 1330216970 114656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, i think it can be asymptotically comparable to a TM as well. < 1330217007 750252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: hm that's not obvious, i think < 1330217021 311525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :reducing anything else down to 2 is though < 1330217043 223092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw my intention is that a loop replacement would _not_ be considered O(1) < 1330217047 630594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can infiniloop with only a single one < 1330217064 208112 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330217085 592217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you mean a single replacement? < 1330217089 570401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it's still not O(1) :P < 1330217094 840550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fine, i think it's still asymptotically equal < 1330217096 994282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1330217102 570664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's surprising < 1330217106 98478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess TMs are still pretty slow < 1330217115 422846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er i wrote that before your last line < 1330217123 138907 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B8BA.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330217136 570104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1330217158 976094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went with tswett's suggestion that substitutions should be considered O(1), although only single replacements are needed for what i thought of < 1330217383 542609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Terminus - a terminal emulator with support for inline HTML (github.com) < 1330217385 252086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a new one < 1330217430 397038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: with only one symbol there's no way to separate symbols without using \ or /, which means you cannot do copying of non-unary data without the quoting mechanism < 1330217448 802071 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1330217463 873715 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my hunch is it is less efficient < 1330217678 574434 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330217685 787012 :Frooxius_!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1330217705 697684 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330218432 728922 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-047-024.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330218547 960134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1330218651 317675 :cheater__!~cheater@dslb-084-057-000-195.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330218837 977689 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you! quick! site tagline! < 1330218982 233883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "solider than thou", i said! < 1330219012 957980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you did? < 1330219017 736955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1330219044 992763 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wrote, to be precise. < 1330219065 200628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. your suggestion will be considered. < 1330219068 18084 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330219071 607984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your suggestion has been considered and rejected. < 1330219090 946969 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the bureaucracy worked quickly. < 1330219139 645242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :helps that there's only one member < 1330219154 662262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computational madness" < 1330219273 22325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's computation Jim, but not as we know it" < 1330219323 171080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Asymptotic incomprehensibility" < 1330219341 675191 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330219367 605279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :before i asked oerjan, i was sure "Weirder Than You" was the worst possible subtitle < 1330219380 287116 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1330219442 996989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is bubble-wrap Turing-complete?" < 1330219612 39683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tea for Thue" < 1330219757 962123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense the customer has not specified the task properly. < 1330219800 620925 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It really helps a lot when someone just blurts out an incomprehensible soundbyte like enjoy your matrix of solidarity < 1330219826 531367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he's already rejected that theme :( < 1330219903 216414 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i know i probably didn't quote it perfectly) well looking at that sentence.. part of the fun is he said "enjoy your" ... implying some antagonism < 1330219954 249733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trying to out-weird the other kind of esoteric" < 1330219971 69749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1330220016 814137 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1330220020 144466 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's essentially an esolang meme. < 1330220038 702196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we all know how much elliott loves memes. < 1330220060 539149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esoteric languages for fun and profit. Wait, scratch profit." < 1330220061 947799 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not suggesting we use it.. im just analyzing it < 1330220173 650739 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote treeder < 1330220181 291972 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :296) enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity < 1330220209 962575 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow... such powerful words < 1330220240 653669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're obviously from the other kind of esoteric. < 1330220326 649419 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs [<]treederwright> < 1330220357 987300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt there's more, e didn't stay long. < 1330220359 261072 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1330220371 796178 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs [t]reederwright < 1330220382 188982 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : It really helps a lot when someone just blurts out an incomprehensible soundbyte < 1330220391 213836 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't really "blurted out" < 1330220393 49169 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3800 < 1330220399 233445 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was spouting nonsense the whole time he was here. < 1330220413 125657 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh,,, now i see < 1330220532 892412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1330220560 736383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Trying to out-weird the other kind of esoteric" < 1330220560 923090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: ^ < 1330220563 281891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: guess what < 1330220581 269846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1330220583 987808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: It was his parting shot, though. < 1330220598 262636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot take the suspense
< 1330220625 591895 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1330220659 678659 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still kinda uncomfortable with being the representative of friendship. < 1330220661 927070 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/AAAAAAAAA! < 1330220668 831590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there were others above, including one by itidus21 < 1330220682 567300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they all sucked < 1330220682 754016 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that wasn't serious < 1330220696 769235 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1330220696 993326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: http://esolangs.org/wiki/AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! < 1330220702 32417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: except that one, right? < 1330220750 910712 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :“If you type a line beginning with @ it can be a comment and contains anything, but it must be removed from the program before the interpreter can use it.” So… just like Haskell? < 1330220790 8971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have no idea why the suck, which means i have no idea what you could possibly consider not sucking. also i get a deja-vu. < 1330220793 459386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*y < 1330220969 279261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i think the deja vu would be complete if you rageparted just about now. < 1330221069 334458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Programming made wrong" < 1330221103 799248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And you thought PHP was bad" < 1330221175 428111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Distilling the suck from success" < 1330221205 198084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they're all trying too hard :p < 1330221233 498693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because, meh." < 1330221258 183103 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is awesome: http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/ps6x5/0x0_wat/ < 1330221282 456451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: dammit why do you ask me if you want something without a joke in it < 1330221283 467830 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of everything I've heard my favorites are still "Irrelevant" and "hello" < 1330221304 868222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your site for esoteric programming languages" < 1330221305 507706 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We spent hours deliberating on a slogan" < 1330221319 58774 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one (itidus') is good too < 1330221332 864681 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's self deprecating < 1330221341 693600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am still a fan of "stop using cologne blue" < 1330221349 608822 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh also good < 1330221358 293239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is cologne blue < 1330221367 913169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only skin the subtitle shows up in < 1330221378 764165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1330221440 672040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must have out-aged today's sense of humor. :( < 1330221453 170435 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should call it Java. < 1330221459 988526 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Java." < 1330221475 270299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1330221526 133145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Insert tagline here" < 1330221528 646426 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"T.A.G.L.I.N.E." < 1330221543 483122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's technically the "subtitle" btw < 1330221559 461034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"<sub>title</sub>" < 1330221608 425634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is more than one way to skin a wiki" < 1330221632 463112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's called the "tagline" too < 1330221644 143215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Tag! You're it!" < 1330221663 683864 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1330221665 844151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1330221670 915280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Tagline, http://esolangs.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sitesubtitle < 1330221686 572929 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does tagline show up anywhere < 1330221721 189492 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DNS is Not a Subtitle" < 1330221748 616769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: upvoted for trut < 1330221750 173359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1330221823 972832 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Second only to Haskell.org as a MediaWiki Wiki" < 1330221826 642656 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"esolang" < 1330221831 798443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why are you reading this anyway?" < 1330221838 148278 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cologne blue" < 1330221852 827578 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yes" < 1330221857 917446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"moscow red" < 1330221890 151798 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Open on Fridays" < 1330221916 219573 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rumour has it this is a wiki about esolangs" < 1330221930 415877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"diabolical" < 1330221941 478761 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This subtitle was an unfortunate victim of a bikeshed accident" < 1330221942 528038 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"looking ghostly" < 1330221951 80937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1330221974 481901 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no" < 1330221986 212173 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Revenge" < 1330221986 463478 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Surprisingly often covered in tree sap." < 1330221989 368838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The site with the brick Phantom" < 1330222029 317735 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let it Be" < 1330222038 870989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wikipedia" < 1330222043 394294 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ < 1330222045 364736 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+1 < 1330222059 470188 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahha < 1330222107 43048 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric "Two Sheds" Programming Wiki < 1330222109 521534 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sponsored by RIAA" < 1330222144 207060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ok" < 1330222156 359687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The" < 1330222193 585117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1330222199 429743 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Build your own private cloud with microsoft technology" < 1330222241 98322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The wiki with its head in the cloud" < 1330222273 310939 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My vote is still for "Wikipedia" < 1330222278 726826 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "Surprisingly often covered in tree sap" < 1330222294 953659 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wikipedia" is very good < 1330222348 77102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wikipedia, the" < 1330222427 166297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Trying too hard" < 1330222485 906140 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh" < 1330222532 463203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A new translation of War and Peace" < 1330222580 64376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"43" < 1330222600 633015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, detroit is in michigan? < 1330222602 79335 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330222614 775772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :new proposal "Wait, Detroit is in Michigan?" < 1330222621 178425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Detroit is in Miching dammit < 1330222666 329537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Michigan's largest website" < 1330222703 463529 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :largest web shite < 1330222721 969429 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :diabolical < 1330222741 847023 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wikipedia is surprisingly often covered in tree sap." < 1330222805 405674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote tree sap < 1330222808 872836 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1330222815 60178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1330222822 172614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog tree sap < 1330222836 141726 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-01-07.txt:17:09:34: j-invariant: then pick up the little tree saplings < 1330222850 57204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog covered in tree sap < 1330222861 49716 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1330222864 781425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1330222944 537119 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do i still have the feeling i've seen it before? < 1330222965 253071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do i still have the feeling i've seen it before?" < 1330222974 349019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Shocking" < 1330222983 406584 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs [t]ree sap < 1330222992 625523 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10941 < 1330223012 70975 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Because you're surprisingly often covered in tree sap? < 1330223028 257812 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs [t]ree < 1330223033 70964 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28614 < 1330223060 346859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: what do you think of "Wait, Detroit is in Michigan?" < 1330223062 688070 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs surprisingly often covered < 1330223070 60237 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.4902 < 1330223079 988317 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can't tell if I like it or not < 1330223088 63175 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs surprisingly < 1330223088 662685 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very mysterious like that. < 1330223095 389233 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.7250 < 1330223191 164672 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs unsurprisingly < 1330223198 671609 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15661 < 1330223388 330086 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-04-29.txt:14:50:44: Misread an Amazon title recommendation as "Purely Fictional Data Structures". (Unsurprisingly, they were functional instead. I might have bought a book on fictional ones.) < 1330223505 425086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Black and blue trees < 1330223511 14176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie doesn't own Okasaki. :( < 1330224052 693358 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're trying to come up with a slogan for Esolang? < 1330224124 872745 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest "Ellenikö va ruoda he milapaa sty evästäkkä puola märri to." < 1330224349 178409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :google translate was surprisingly useless on that one < 1330224361 382120 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1330224409 345213 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is bing translator < 1330224480 925112 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s Finnish for “Ellen spouted her fecal matter all over the kitchen floor.” < 1330224505 817735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not in any way perturbed when an online translator fails :-D < 1330224537 402423 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its more the successful feeling when a human beats a non-human at chess < 1330224556 184636 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems easy to arrange. < 1330224562 87585 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have the computer make moves randomly. < 1330224568 854857 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better yet, play against a rock. < 1330224583 676121 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s even more impressive when three fifths of a human beats a non-human at chess. < 1330224677 644477 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330224678 852267 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressiveness increases as fraction of human approaches zero < 1330224724 96387 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the limited RAM available in NES, how much of Thue-Morse sequence could be generated at runtime by using a short program? < 1330225435 108464 :amca_!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-128.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1330225487 124598 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330225530 131430 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330225702 791848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : It’s Finnish for “Ellen spouted her fecal matter all over the kitchen floor.” < 1330225704 315724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1330225747 136322 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not bad for a tagline < 1330225828 354143 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, it’s either autogenerated words using a Markov chain from a Finnish dictionary or some other language that looks like autogenerated words using a Markov chain from a Finnish dictionary. < 1330225872 254050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You disappointed me. < 1330225896 384775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen will be the day you die. < 1330225943 748075 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ellenik� vuotanut h�nen ulosteessa koko keitti�n lattialle. < 1330226095 494947 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard that the policy of credit card companies that they are not allowed to discount to customers who pay cash. But I have another idea: After pay, the store owner offers 50% refund if the customer wins at a game against the store owner. And the store owner will ensure to win if paid by credit card, and lost (ensuring customer win) if paid by cash. < 1330226144 939121 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if they did that? < 1330226193 254016 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, update < 1330226494 916700 :amca_!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-128.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au NICK :amca < 1330226675 482383 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there no finns awake? :( < 1330226694 439367 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What timezone are you in??? < 1330226709 233046 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :est but i was here earlier! < 1330226726 250418 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, i know there are latenight finns < 1330226735 11499 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m about to go asleep. < 1330226787 184134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: All you use this place for anymore is asking for Finns, right? < 1330226803 187201 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, finnish IS an esoteric language < 1330226803 892133 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1330226806 301571 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figure its on topic < 1330226832 4747 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: are you a native finnish speaker < 1330226849 589252 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promised elliott i wouldn’t say this, but yes. < 1330226868 915184 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::X < 1330226872 404401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, native Finnish speaker is OK. < 1330226878 512481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Native resident of Finland is not. < 1330226885 38448 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: i just need a yes/no judgement from you < 1330226889 971381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it doesn't matter whether you're native or not. < 1330226898 375548 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I judge: no. < 1330226902 285853 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: :P < 1330226905 333796 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finland, finland, finland < 1330226906 642209 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: on some finnish! < 1330226915 511914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet augur doesn't have to do it kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen. He could wait until tomorrow. < 1330226986 19922 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can wait tho yes < 1330226992 52573 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: ill annoy you tomorrow. what time would be good? < 1330227000 773149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a joke. < 1330227005 472339 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feel free to ask now. < 1330227018 74797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if augur thinks "kaksikymmentäneljätuntiaikakausitämänhetkinen" is an actual word.
< 1330227022 400420 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill have to construct an example sentence and i dont want to stop you from going to sleep < 1330227047 814666 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ve been “about to go to sleep” for about five hours. :-P < 1330227068 62178 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll probably actually do it now, but i’m in no real hurry. < 1330227225 697049 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: /msg < 1330227366 776938 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet NICK :Jafet < 1330227666 349047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, we don't even get to see the sentence? < 1330227801 206415 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have to annoy him and figure out what sentences are even useful to answer the question :P < 1330227807 869883 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i dont want to spam the channel with that shit < 1330228500 324509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1330228658 993391 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf "A Simple and Convenient Synthesis of Pseudoephedrine From N-Methylamphetamine" < 1330228684 223944 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :For science < 1330228744 908887 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A quick search of several neighborhoods of the United States revealed that while pseudoephedrine is difficult to obtain, N-methylamphetamine can be procured at almost any time on short notice and in quantities sufficient for synthesis of useful amounts of the desired material." < 1330228753 252479 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We expect that the simultaneous trends of restricting pseudoephedrine sales while N-methylamphetamine becomes less expensive and of higher purity will make the methods presented here increasingly attractive." < 1330230273 418554 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: lolol < 1330230783 672000 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: heh < 1330230789 935631 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Haskell channel, someone said I made the same problem of including Int in Prelude. I agree and I realized I made a few other mistakes too, in Ibtlfmm example, so I will write the specification fix these problems. There shall be no Int, but there can be Int8, Int16, Int32, Int64, and Integer. Do you think so? < 1330230815 315315 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the corresponding unsigned types: Nat8, Nat16, Nat32, Nat64, and Natural.) < 1330230848 748768 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m not sure IntN, NatN belong to the Prelude either. In a separately imported module, sure. < 1330230985 701363 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe... but I think Int doesn't belong anywhere; you have to use Int32 or whatever to specify the number of bits explicitly. But tell me your reasoning anyways; I would like to understand better what you mean any why you think it should be. < 1330231009 638578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's already like that, in Data.Int.) < 1330231098 827789 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’m just thinking the IntN, NatN types are used quite infrequently. < 1330231128 444010 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(set! lambda ((lambda (base-lambda) (vau (param . body) env (eval env (list base-lambda param (cons begin body))))) lambda)) < 1330231129 573057 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whee < 1330231166 139213 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I understand; what I mean is if it is make entirely new programming language. (One idea, of the name Nat8 instead of Word8 for unsigned 8-bit number) < 1330231217 51851 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What am i looking at? < 1330231225 611844 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1330231327 914653 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a computer < 1330231343 449317 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i win a prize for guessing < 1330231375 370158 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is for a language i implemented, which is similar to Kernel < 1330231383 47418 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an fexpr / vau calculus sort of language < 1330231421 972220 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it redefines lambda to support the syntactic sugar (lambda (x) a b c ...) => (lambda (x) (begin a b c ...)) < 1330231424 835584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't like the explicit env thing much.
< 1330231464 977187 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it holds the old lambda in a closure constructed by (what else?) lambda < 1330231492 236780 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you have a proposed alternative? < 1330231513 467315 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw someone on LtU talking about pairing the arguments with the dynamic environment < 1330231519 759284 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to form a 'quasipromise' < 1330231555 344868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no proposed alternative :P ... but one idea I had would be to carry environments with values < 1330231560 428933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "body" there would know its environment < 1330231566 684749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (eval body) would eval it in the right environment < 1330231569 404955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's what you mean by that < 1330231572 300805 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's what i was talking about < 1330231585 753036 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes it somewhat like a promise < 1330231598 387162 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you can still crack it open and get at the juicy cons pairs inside < 1330231631 795126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1330231648 116660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you supported explicitly transforming environments of these values you could still do anaphoric stuff < 1330231772 996464 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330231785 675548 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my interpreter i totally expose the fact that environments are lists of alists < 1330231799 79575 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means there is no end of hax < 1330231814 322855 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what a sane abstract-data interface to first class environments would look like < 1330231831 281826 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way is convenient because you can define 'define' and 'set!' in library code < 1330231849 249894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is mutation, access, and enumeration, really < 1330231973 775114 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is love < 1330231991 318434 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should rename "vau" to "love" < 1330232044 148930 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vau is Finnish for “wow”. < 1330232315 778836 :amca!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-128.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au QUIT :Quit: Farewell < 1330233724 883033 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good so far? So far I have only the main headings. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/Ibtlfmm/ibtlfmm_specification.tex Perhaps I might change the name; if you can suggest better name ("Ibtlfmm" is not necessarily best name to call it) < 1330237383 910817 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330237528 129765 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330237998 345423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 yep, Yandex is violating /robots.txt: 87.250.255.243 - - [26/Feb/2012:06:30:56 +0000] "GET /w/index.php?title=Auo&action=edit§ion=6 HTTP/1.1" 302 161 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; YandexBot/3.0; +http://yandex.com/bots)" < 1330237998 534680 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1330238067 559362 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1330238088 759086 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some sort of third-rate search engine? < 1330238128 375517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third-rate = the top in Russia, or so they cliam. < 1330238129 404251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*claim < 1330238145 340209 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its documentation makes it seem like it's supposed to < 1330238146 628459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yandex < 1330238148 643061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP agrees. < 1330238157 130967 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://help.yandex.com/search/?id=1112639 < 1330238166 803556 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is /w/ valid like that in robots.txt? < 1330238185 917409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean "valid"? < 1330238188 547386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a path on the server. < 1330238215 575132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Googlebot, bing etc. all respect the robots.txt I have just fine.) < 1330238228 204358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bingbot, I think. < 1330238593 122634 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just block Yandex at the router configuration if you need to < 1330238603 849929 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the server configuration < 1330238606 265097 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whichever works < 1330238900 36769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1330238923 628047 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then we'd be hurting all our Russian fans < 1330238956 503473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'd only be hurting the ones using that search engine. < 1330238964 23412 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use some server configuration to block Yandex from /w/ only, then. < 1330239029 154454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not just that they violate robots.txt; they also spider far faster than they should. < 1330239043 876988 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-228-18.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1330239239 313609 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330239445 51011 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-145-192.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330242304 357343 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Quit: bye < 1330242486 80949 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330242557 934652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Ngevd < 1330242567 462889 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1330242583 766638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :. Function application .ab... ...(λx.a(bx)) < 1330242586 343947 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not quite understand this < 1330242591 292085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really meant to turn those two into a lambda? < 1330242596 124536 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither do I < 1330242597 158956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it should be something like < 1330242609 431476 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\x.y)b --> y[x:=b] < 1330242610 165998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1330242611 422718 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made the esolang when I was pretty much asleep < 1330242613 727567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :using substitution syntax or something < 1330242622 590851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also $ is kinda vague < 1330242640 265320 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$3. turns into ... < 1330242656 805033 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$6~ turns into ~~~~~~ < 1330242671 60914 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I need . < 1330242677 32082 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll remove it < 1330242693 952581 :monqy_!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330242714 476414 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1330242723 409985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "a lots of b" < 1330242725 74365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "a lot of b" < 1330242747 801560 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can clarify that better, go ahead < 1330242840 382382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm tweaking the article now < 1330242988 343922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: you have ! doing two things < 1330242999 970610 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah! < 1330243033 132606 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make the first one �? < 1330243070 266619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not ASCII < 1330243071 321045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW < 1330243145 43837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: If you're fixing it, refresh < 1330243147 684632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I edited the page) < 1330243261 609232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: You did not fix the example. < 1330243297 617846 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Refresh < 1330243576 92215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1330243599 179226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot to add it to your userpage. : < 1330243599 789199 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1330243613 421962 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that later < 1330243713 580724 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I just made the esolang with the longest sequence of vowels in a non-onomatp�ic title? < 1330243803 211508 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By the way, later has already happened) < 1330243976 665447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Dude. < 1330243979 777264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You misspelled it on the language list. < 1330244006 729222 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blerg < 1330244008 400876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that, or in the page title. < 1330244053 383646 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the language list < 1330244061 176564 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's based on the word "queue" < 1330244074 867552 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I misplaced it < 1330244258 982384 :monqy_!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net NICK :monqy < 1330244301 688612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1330244374 39722 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if he should be upset that http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-monad-macros/monad-macros.htm uses macros like with-monad rather than having bind dispatch on the type. I'm not even sure how return could be made to work generically, so
< 1330244684 955673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do return in a dynamically-typed language. < 1330244743 846542 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pass it the class? < 1330244758 33340 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330244784 438645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what you have to do to make it not the same and work. < 1330244864 205773 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is somewhat glad of monad macros in CL
< 1330244893 78166 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was weird grammar < 1330244893 448295 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1330245160 262971 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So that's it: A monad is a code-transformer. Like a macro. It's simple to remember: Both names even start with a 'M'." < 1330245171 44021 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blood is coming out of my gums for having read that < 1330245181 591434 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kawagner.blogspot.com/2007/02/understanding-monads-for-real.html < 1330245217 293855 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, e says that they're not really macros < 1330245220 11771 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1330245230 180680 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I put the '' around the word 'macro' because Monads are not really macros by definition. So if you want to be picky you can find reasons why this picture isn't totally correct. But does this really matter? Or isn't it more important to have a useful way of thinking if we deal with an abstraction?" < 1330245294 785147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for telling us about this article. < 1330245320 331039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kawagner.blogspot.com/2007/02/why-monads-are-evil.html < 1330245345 897159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slava Pestov said... < 1330245346 83817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Lisp and Haskell are too powerful for you and your fellow web developers, stick to Java. But don't waste your time posting ignorant tripe. < 1330245346 270725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :6:14 AM < 1330245740 413819 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, read Karsten's thoughts on undo/redo < 1330245816 361924 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I am a bit disturbed at what wellsed said < 1330245841 225447 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is an undecideable problem to determine a Haskell program's < 1330245841 412451 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluation order without actually evaluating the program. This is a consequence of the < 1330245841 412647 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-strict semantics of Haskell; Haskell is the "standard non-strict, pure, functional language". < 1330245841 412746 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The decision for Haskell to be pure forces the necessity of its non-strict nature." < 1330245871 828160 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure that non-strictness forces (or at least strongly indicates) purity, rather than purity strongly suggesting non-strictness. < 1330245916 846129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'm not going to read anything this idiot said. < 1330245937 556191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan wow, your BCT interpreter was 2009? < 1330245937 742707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1330245951 225044 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't the difference that... < 1330245974 542427 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closures operate at runtime, and, operates on live values. < 1330245983 191224 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Macros operate at compiletime, and operate on code. < 1330245984 344410 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... < 1330245989 465673 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a major difference, don't you think? < 1330246001 209608 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp in languages with state < 1330246129 940539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two concepts are pretty much unrelated, except that monads are a useful abstraction when defining EDSLs, and macros can also be used for EDSLs. < 1330246237 324031 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1330246244 23809 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are they pointing out monads < 1330246249 613768 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of higher order functions again?? < 1330246276 495705 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The great thing about ignorant tripe is that everyone feels like they can contribute to a discussion of it. < 1330246288 46444 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the best contribution would be a lack of discussion, of course. < 1330246297 194310 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :=p < 1330246320 378210 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp in languages with state sometimes refers to the stack pointer. < 1330246429 206730 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330246433 727407 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1330246565 866243 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-047-024.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1330246626 206420 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-137-229.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330246633 846230 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-047-024.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330246791 268860 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-145-192.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330246822 673639 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you know that Haskell is just mathematical notation? < 1330246855 988346 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaargh < 1330246884 826780 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm playing VVVVVV, just did the whole Doing Things The Hard Way, but landed on the wrong side of the block,... < 1330247259 661344 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :VVVVVV was fun. < 1330247260 675312 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though < 1330247275 45045 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went "you want me to do WHAT" when it started off an escort mission... < 1330247586 735275 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to define a monad using join instead of bind? < 1330247603 683077 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who, me? < 1330247678 415112 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: Whoever answer, so, that can include you < 1330247699 217115 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be useful to have the option and oh god I'm Ngevd < 1330247701 160817 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1330247825 257391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered just changing your name in your client. < 1330247836 674028 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to. Twice < 1330247855 494847 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330247858 213859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try harder. < 1330247858 593473 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read the documentation for your client? < 1330247871 539145 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to stick < 1330247874 121724 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on < 1330247876 599186 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Goodbye < 1330247891 78383 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330247961 799863 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, if it's easier for you to imagine join rather than bind, write oin < 1330247996 741206 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330247997 153772 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330248010 325041 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, bind is just a shortcut to combine join with fmap < 1330248042 166624 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1330248046 108477 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seemed to work < 1330248068 690543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it didn't < 1330248071 180492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What on earth did you do < 1330248074 4633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see < 1330248123 832463 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in the IRC client I use, nothing persists across sessions; you have to put your configuration in a init script. < 1330248260 575140 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a new I Wanna Be The Guy < 1330248262 425729 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently < 1330248275 92621 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The same thing applies in Astrolog; you have to put all your configurations in the init script) < 1330248346 840548 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or enter the commands manually every time; both PHIRC and Astrolog do that. < 1330249624 991995 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...There are two Helgi the Sharps on Wikipedia < 1330250647 39927 :cheater_!~cheater@dslb-084-057-047-024.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1330251088 542627 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330252744 633426 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330252757 986523 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn :( < 1330252766 719241 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello #esoteric people < 1330252782 530829 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm failing to implement a program that compares two values in Beam :( < 1330252792 397138 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1330252811 378147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello graue < 1330252822 263675 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-! is a loop that sets the beam to zero < 1330252830 408919 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that only works, if beam % 3 is zero. < 1330252831 393653 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1330252873 693891 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-! is executed >-!->-!->-! and so on < 1330252907 29192 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know Beam yet < 1330252908 371804 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea would have been to decrement both values each at a time < 1330252915 779017 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stop if one value reached zero < 1330252918 220989 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330252921 770443 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-047-024.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330252923 799987 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would make that value the smaller of both. < 1330252930 732368 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1330252947 706228 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except I have not figured out yet how to decrement 1 :) < 1330252998 515593 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1330253005 35797 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330253010 776869 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-137-229.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1330253029 372239 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-137-229.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330253113 194533 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can subtract even numbers with >--! < 1330253131 146155 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is >--!-->--!-->--! < 1330253184 816760 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :beam -= 2; while(beam != 0) { beam -= 4 }; would that bee. < 1330253189 413438 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e < 1330253223 200629 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that won't terminate if beam is not even. < 1330253338 184728 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-! zeroes the beam, if the beam is odd. < 1330253348 480162 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>--! zeroes the beam, if the beam is even. < 1330253402 661621 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I may be able to figure out how to test, if it is even or not. < 1330253423 464481 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd do it! < 1330253441 534336 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1330253452 26274 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess I need loops for that too. < 1330253462 537848 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so fall in to the same problem. < 1330253478 994838 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is the same problem. < 1330253504 771301 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you invent this language? < 1330253538 991412 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow yes ;) < 1330253577 842225 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's impossible to do what you're trying to do < 1330253614 838733 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the language has all the necessary stuff to be turing complete < 1330253621 661139 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means, that it must be possible somehow :D < 1330253639 569102 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can test for 0 or 1 < 1330253645 994858 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that must be enough. < 1330253654 463890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, turing-completeness doesn't necessarily mean you can accomplish some operation with the primitive data types in the language < 1330253673 976566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., there may be a BF interpreter you can write that never needs to decrement 1, or such < 1330253688 448398 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was thinking the same < 1330253711 186716 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps since you can test for 0 or 1, use only those values in your program, and represent larger numbers as bitstrings < 1330253844 405937 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I can test for (beam != 0) and (beam != 1) < 1330253858 203612 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :instructions n and u < 1330253872 165323 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you only use 0 and 1, then (beam != 0) <=> (beam == 1), and vice versa < 1330253986 274477 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :v v < < 1330253987 208376 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+>-u: < 1330254003 639005 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That loop always zeroes the beam if the store is zero < 1330254040 720046 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking good so far. < 1330254399 984730 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys! < 1330254410 715312 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i resurrected my weird 7 year old string-rewriting language, Sortle < 1330254432 179435 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and successfully wrote a fibonacci program in it after many hours < 1330254439 277737 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/sortle/src/fib.sort check it out < 1330254514 238375 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C interpreter was hopelessly buggy, so most of those hours were spent writing a new interpreter: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/sortle/impl/sortle.pl < 1330254532 181335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fibonacci looks cool < 1330254571 911083 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1330254580 712336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, reminds me of Muriel, at least if that quoting /is/ the quiney-program-rewriting it looks like < 1330254606 593993 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/. < 1330254607 338135 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 | < 1330254607 534595 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69/`\ < 1330254630 106480 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me refreshes memory on how Muriel works < 1330254680 277892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like cpressey wrote a perl interpreter for sortle too, heh: http://catseye.tc/projects/muriel/script/muriel.pl < 1330254697 881207 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean for muriel? < 1330254709 928718 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :muriel looks cool, but sortle is different < 1330254720 398424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, oops < 1330254723 536065 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code doesn't get modified < 1330254724 258913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i completely forgot which article i was reading :) < 1330254732 667434 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330254746 977721 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming in Fueue is haaaard < 1330254750 525436 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Beam#Even_.2F_Odd < 1330254754 206338 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got it. < 1330254759 369057 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tests even/odd. < 1330254764 89451 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats mRoman! < 1330254774 696780 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1330254774 885073 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ < 1330254775 988482 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   |    `\o/´69    |   |   | < 1330254776 212201 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 /'\  |\  |\     |     /'\ /<  /<      |     /<  /|  /´\ < 1330254776 398863 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                /`\                (_|¯`¯|_) < 1330254776 399098 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69              (_| |_)                    < 1330254814 86352 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trick is to subtract two < 1330254820 553617 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and test for !=0 or !=1 < 1330254852 339829 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if it's not 1 or 0, then subtract 2 again? < 1330254864 565474 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1330254875 722605 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool < 1330255067 426069 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so, in sortle, the only form of data storage is in expression names < 1330255101 670804 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can only be accessed by trying to match other expression names (not the expression being evaluated) with a regex < 1330255117 450784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1330255136 349809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where does the sort part come into it? < 1330255147 482753 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :execution order < 1330255167 477934 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at each step, the expressions are sorted by name < 1330255180 141468 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever one comes after the one that just got evaluated, is evaluated next < 1330255185 132187 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrapping) < 1330255200 275463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1330255205 302036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of Forte, in the execution order < 1330255267 966163 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only glanced at that one < 1330255268 966368 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs are so baaaad for code reuse < 1330255286 465889 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the wiki tells me that sortle is a year older, so i win :P < 1330255289 149996 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you were able to write a program to test for even/odd < 1330255294 120231 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just use that code :( < 1330255313 336115 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it assumes starting position and since it's 2d < 1330255323 660216 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also assumes position in the code < 1330255338 310651 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*starting values < 1330255344 864585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :code reuse is terrible. you might build something useful < 1330255372 800853 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :code reuse is for people who aren't cool enough to program esolangs < 1330255382 531105 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. I get that. < 1330255401 92248 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to say that people who can't program esolangs, can't program ;) < 1330255410 93688 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn right < 1330255421 558608 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*who can't program (in) esolangs < 1330255425 877523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also reminds me of Forte in that you "relabel" statements to get them to execute in the order that you want < 1330255433 561870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except in Forte you do it by changing the numbers themselves :)) < 1330255448 493206 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330255467 221428 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, cool < 1330255468 155158 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1330255482 75751 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so forte is "probably turing-complete", according to esowiki < 1330255502 459033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can do loops, it's just confusing < 1330255510 850497 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm very interested in whether sortle is turing-complete; i think that assuming unbounded length strings, it might be < 1330255524 895546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably BCT would be feasible; if it can be implemented in /// it can be implemented in anything < 1330255528 44240 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loop until 99 becomes 2 < 1330255531 162239 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that even looks insane. < 1330255539 394042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect nobody has the patience :P < 1330255544 980358 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i should implement BCT in sortle? < 1330255573 831525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's any good at simple string manipulation, it's an easy way to prove TCness, yeah < 1330255576 312250 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1330255580 598074 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just pseudocode < 1330255595 103862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: the actual language is worse, you have to reassign numbers to even loop < 1330255606 224324 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :forte looks awesome, actually < 1330255615 334975 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dig the idea of using numbers themselves as variables < 1330255617 885118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: the one problem I could see for TCness is if regular expressions don't end up being powerful enough... but I don't think you'd need that to do BCT < 1330255644 594459 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language like the pseudocode would have been cool. < 1330255672 168558 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my so-called regular expressions in Sortle are pretty weak < 1330255714 978480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they're more like super globs :P < 1330255741 220462 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sortle paper. < 1330255744 386034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely looks like it has enough freedom to be TC < 1330255763 108855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reluctant to call anything sub-TC after his series of terrible Underload predictions
< 1330255788 661530 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess the idea is to create bct.sort that somewhere in it has "replace this with BCT program string" and "replace this with BCT initial data string", and you replace them and then run it < 1330255795 343996 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: Did you invent Sortle for some sort of school project? < 1330255796 607416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(every time oerjan tried to figure out whether another subset of Underload is TC I would insist it can't possibly be, but he proved me wrong every time :)) < 1330255800 397195 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or university project whatever. < 1330255809 750145 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the BCT program halts, the sortle program halts and produces the final data string as output < 1330255822 620620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need the output at all, really < 1330255824 244334 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: no, i just decided to create a .pdf of the spec for no reason < 1330255829 759096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it helps as a constructive proof that the computation is actually happening :) < 1330255854 169929 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in sortle, any program that halts has already thrown away all data EXCEPT what is output < 1330255863 529798 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes, it would help :) < 1330255867 910174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but the only thing you need to maintain is whether it halts or not < 1330255874 251267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition of TCness < 1330255874 466779 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're Mike Feeney? < 1330255900 412670 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used my middle name in that paper for some reason < 1330255902 989972 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess so, yeah < 1330255989 758357 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Luigi is TC, but I can't get anyone to believe me < 1330256003 141088 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if i can make it halt, it's not a lot more work to save the data string, really < 1330256003 539868 :Ngevd!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1330256008 648160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1330256011 323005 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ngevd: write a proof < 1330256019 233733 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or implement BCT in it < 1330256020 693220 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1330256032 9695 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A proof is simple but tedious < 1330256044 471097 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tedious? < 1330256045 770594 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can implement arbitrary Turing machines in it < 1330256078 75996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't proved you can, only done so for specific instances :P < 1330256092 563546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just translate a UTM? < 1330256106 807278 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the proof of BCT's turing-completeness not online anymore? < 1330256118 812473 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki mentions a link under External resources, but there isn't one < 1330256125 849067 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sooo tedious < 1330256144 281351 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would automating it be tedious too < 1330256147 865435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag#BCT_emulation_of_cyclic_tag_systems? < 1330256163 264951 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, gotcha < 1330256231 158512 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, which relies on a 1961 proof by Marvin Minsky < 1330256237 838530 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waaaay before my time < 1330256379 390032 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb do fueue programs ever terminate < 1330256393 784085 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, H < 1330256396 895468 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the only way < 1330256406 745575 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1330256438 974230 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe... < 1330256444 105056 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the empty program is cat? < 1330256445 469791 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think an empty program terminates < 1330256445 918091 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a list of esofilearchive mirrors? < 1330256452 974309 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only think that? < 1330256455 952043 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i just noticed BCT halts iff the data string becomes empty < 1330256467 950286 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's literally no data to preserve other than "the program halts" < 1330256481 253541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: I'm not sure there are any < 1330256487 165893 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: i don't think there are any public mirrors right now, feel free to set one up < 1330256494 683026 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1330256545 396219 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boggles at a thing that supposedly can turn CL into a Lisp-1
< 1330256589 868623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: on the off-chance that you do, do the wiki too. i'm not convinced pgimeno is still taking backups :p < 1330256625 869412 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, seriously? < 1330256631 929697 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1330256640 170150 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. We have one public esofilearchive mirror then. < 1330256645 788536 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant Lisp-1 like Banana Scheme's Scheme-ns. < 1330256674 28365 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cl-user.net/asp/22C3/sdataQIUx9IbXRN5hDQ30CH8X8yBX8yBXnMq=/sdataQu3F$sSHnB== < 1330256687 831025 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not, in fact, an entirely understandable to me introduction to code walking < 1330256701 876790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330256712 64424 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno? < 1330256731 62632 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope users are periodically downloading the latest dump. < 1330256735 683324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :An inactive-ish admin on the wiki listed on the old wiki preservation page. < 1330256736 778134 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pgimeno was a guy who was involved in the esolang community but hasn't been around much for 5+ years (i think) < 1330256750 516030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was around only a few years ago when paintfuck was popular < 1330256768 212256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: i doubt anybody is, really < 1330256770 859619 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok... anyways, he claims to be backing up the wiki but who knows < 1330256777 422018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were a few mirrors but they slowly died off but one < 1330256787 887272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he'll certainly have to update the crontab if he is :) < 1330256898 475864 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :new mediawiki pet peeve: edit a page => save => go back 2 pages => "Are you sure you want to leave? Data may not be saved." < 1330256937 386097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's annoying... I think I can make that warning a preference < 1330257003 197980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use your browser's "back 2" command rather than clicking on back twice, but that's not really a perfect solutin < 1330257003 385057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1330257003 571469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, apparently... I'll look into it later < 1330257007 285942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*solution < 1330257009 904592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1330257010 126127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 5h 16m 48s ago: yep, Yandex is violating /robots.txt: 87.250.255.243 - - [26/Feb/2012:06:30:56 +0000] "GET /w/index.php?title=Auo&action=edit§ion=6 HTTP/1.1" 302 161 "-" "Mozilla/5. < 1330257010 316729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 (compatible; YandexBot/3.0; +http://yandex.com/bots)" < 1330257031 611234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's browser doesn't have a back 2 command
< 1330257038 849810 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean just going to the list of previous pages in the back button < 1330257091 630847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I mean < 1330257107 878494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and I just ran your robots.txt through a syntax checker in case that was the problem, it parses fine < 1330257140 863140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what happened for that one, actually, is that it loaded http://www.esolangs.org/w/... < 1330257151 168301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then got redirected to the www-less domain (thus the 302), and didn't load the target page < 1330257168 372064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually, that doesn't make any sense, it should have loaded http://www.esolangs.org/robots.txt first anyway < 1330257183 948622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could make that page not a redirect? < 1330257198 38697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can conceive of bots that don't follow redirects on robots.txt < 1330257235 346094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I'll just wait to see if it does a third naughty thing and block it :p < 1330257244 493757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Slashdot are discussing the whole issue of whether Macs get viruses, and someone mentioned that the worst malware infection they saw was on Solaris, and it had got in via a CDE vulnerability < 1330257258 858169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the person was trying to figure out why anyone would bother to target CDE < 1330257285 346963 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do they mean by 'worst'? < 1330257365 144677 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1330257366 96313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't say < 1330257380 834541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there doesn't seem to be a lot of point in asking < 1330257402 619049 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey mRoman: thanks for setting up a mirror of the file archive < 1330257418 794369 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you set up a cron job or script or something so it'll update automatically? < 1330257474 509104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that was a bizarre advert I just saw on YouTube, it was advertising some sort of game, which had bonus levels if you were using IE9 < 1330257494 153971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure if that's an attempt to get people to switch away from IE8, or from Firefox/Chrome < 1330257501 129339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or from IE6…) < 1330257509 905287 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330257562 399335 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ic. < 1330257649 8292 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CDE? < 1330257727 366171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a really old desktop environment < 1330257732 769803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a famously obnoxious color scheme < 1330257801 814391 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330257875 678779 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330258196 542663 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does zsync use special ports? < 1330258200 698176 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it sync over http? < 1330258250 274949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP < 1330258265 798241 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1330258323 182467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be an unwise idea to expose the sync'd dump on your server, depending on your bandwidth quota, since it's ~150 megs < 1330258338 22007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if zsync could work on a compressed copy itself but i haven't been able to look into that yet < 1330258364 335161 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i wrote a little script that does gzip -d && zsync && gzip < 1330258418 540934 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :&& rm esolang.xml.zs-old, or else it seems to leave the old version behind < 1330258430 71299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's probably the best way for servers that want to offer downloads < 1330258431 515711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, it does < 1330258452 865556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i picked it over rsync because it means i don't have to maintain another server :p < 1330258472 614563 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no traffic limit < 1330258477 167106 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. ok < 1330258674 190068 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVN apparently uses more than just 3690 tcp < 1330258724 278312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses 80 for http svn servers, presumably < 1330258744 403467 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the filearchive is probably http < 1330258790 620488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" svn co http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/svn/esofiles/ ./" < 1330258796 429765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like an accurate assessment to me :p < 1330258862 308868 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1330258882 885923 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone locked the repository < 1330258887 833543 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't update right now < 1330258893 451409 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn: Working copy '.' locked < 1330258901 504218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a local problem < 1330258902 342960 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's your local copy < 1330258904 817754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you locked it in a failed update? < 1330258905 184988 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1330258905 685630 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1330258909 709368 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1330258921 546767 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It failed because iptables kicked it's ass ;) < 1330258927 969908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"svn unlock ." apparently < 1330258932 673234 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn cleanup < 1330258942 562397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, or "svn cle" -yeah < 1330259043 386119 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have so many iptables rules I had to write to my virtual hoster do increase my allowed rules count :) < 1330259169 395441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org has... 0 :p < 1330259565 789363 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm implementing BCT in sortle < 1330259579 619947 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1330259592 828336 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I download the latest dump at 06:30 my current local time < 1330259603 587713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what local time is that? < 1330259604 931971 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and update the filearchive mirror at 06:30 my current local time < 1330259607 234989 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmt +1 < 1330259610 706525 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with DST < 1330259617 353707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1330259624 314886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything after 6:15 UTC or so is fine < 1330259628 121366 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently it's 13:36 here < 1330259637 17952 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :1:30 pm < 1330259645 932915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before that runs the risk of triggering when the dump is being generated) < 1330259656 917371 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1330259660 41781 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1330259694 295803 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you generate the dump as .xml.gz.part and rename it over the old .xml.gz only when it's finished? < 1330259695 281480 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm UTC 1 < 1330259713 12718 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or even better have the .part be in a non-web-accessible directory) < 1330259724 61742 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: yeah, I was planning to make the script do that < 1330259726 54974 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just overwrite the last dump with a wget. < 1330259732 196589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: oh, ouch < 1330259742 44697 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is baaad < 1330259753 461920 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your server gives me a bad dump. < 1330259764 104638 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't afford a history of 20mb files < 1330259767 552954 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd flood the server. < 1330259781 190571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use zsync? < 1330259791 466648 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll implement something like round-robin < 1330259809 247273 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Will that help if your server goes boom boom? < 1330259816 319009 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does zsync have a history so I can rollback? < 1330259816 634777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: but even then, if you download at e.g. 6:00 and it still gets the old dump, that means it takes you 24 hours to get any changes m:) < 1330259837 305268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: zsync saves the old file to zs-old if there are any changes < 1330259842 643618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: but if my server goes kaboom, it won't even start < 1330259864 88503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main advantage of zsync is that it uses a tenth of the traffic :p < 1330259864 865780 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :With boom boom I mean "delivers me a corrupt file" < 1330259871 835388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsync verifies checksums < 1330259884 876013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd still go to zs-old < 1330259893 790212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the zsync file itself would have to be validly-formed for it to even start) < 1330259911 149597 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: who cares if the dump is ~2 days old instead of ~1 < 1330259929 434338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably nobody :P < 1330259930 916875 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is just to not lose this stuff if the main server fails and/or the person hosting it disappears < 1330259947 569702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330259950 820084 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was a recurrent problem with esolang sites before we started the wiki < 1330259955 917922 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :long before you were born. :P < 1330259978 284838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1330259997 796893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have felt the effects with the 2400 different urls for catseye :) < 1330260026 415339 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, catseye still has a lot of great content that's not on the wiki or file archive < 1330260044 667807 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should see if we can get more of chris's implementations and docs into the archive < 1330260068 171528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think catseye is pretty unlikely to go kaput these days, but yeah < 1330261897 519280 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330261906 584944 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1330261930 827210 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330262741 687413 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1330262754 739620 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have now a 3 day rotation of esowikidumps < 1330262770 942306 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eso.fmnssun.ibone.ch/wikidump/ < 1330262781 828832 :Taneb!02635ca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.92.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330262783 819479 :Taneb!02635ca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.92.169 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1330262813 934132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1330262815 998932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: great < 1330262852 381429 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e8f7.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330263057 220952 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means I suck every day 20mb :) < 1330263074 927143 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is no problem for me) < 1330263080 923079 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My server has an average traffic of zero < 1330263149 519300 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it weren't for irc. < 1330263162 23498 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks about 5MB a day. < 1330263226 644730 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-156-154.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330263330 214214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a reason you can't use zsync, out of curiosity? I'd like to fix any issues with adopting it so it's as useful as possible < 1330263367 336723 :Taneb!02635ca9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.99.92.169 QUIT :Quit: Lunch? < 1330263419 879487 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-137-229.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1330263556 586776 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The wiki says it stores the file uncompressed. < 1330263559 447460 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is 150Mb < 1330263591 40586 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a three day rotation of the gz-file uses only half of that. < 1330263598 450196 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So space is my concern. < 1330263619 558121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough -- you could ask graue for his shell script, which would only use 150 megs for the duration of the download < 1330263633 135385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be nice if it could operate directly on the compressed files, i agree < 1330263713 930448 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My html/ is currently 442MB < 1330263721 72825 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the uncompressed would exceed the 500MB < 1330263791 47855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right -- but by decompressing before and recompressing after as graue's shell script does, it'd be the same amount of storage (~57 megs) used normally, and about ~131 megs extra used for only a few minute interval when it actually does the download < 1330263802 931238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a lot less than 500 ;) < 1330263872 948863 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :MB? Still using zip drives? < 1330263892 287492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean most people don't use zip drives? < 1330263902 880199 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1330263909 235635 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 100MB of flash games on my server < 1330263914 311556 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which aren't really necessary < 1330263925 392567 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make enough space for the zsync < 1330263959 800545 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 106MB of IRC logs. < 1330264004 849473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a shell-script to do the rotation it's just 2 lines extra or so to compress post-zsync, which I'd recommend < 1330264010 519391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would require freeing up considerably less space :p < 1330264028 553261 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just delete files older than 3 days with find ctime < 1330264037 653885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1330264205 344773 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1330267021 906497 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330267064 839043 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1330267480 549127 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80040111 (NS_ERROR_NOT_AVAILABLE) [nsIDOMWindow.alert]" nsresult: "0x80040111 (NS_ERROR_NOT_AVAILABLE)" < 1330267485 88448 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf. < 1330267596 321571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading "ns" means either OS X or Firefox, doesn't it? < 1330267608 416142 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both use the same namespace prefix, much to everyone's confusion < 1330267662 189464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for historical reasons in both cases: NeXTstep, and Netscape) < 1330267743 922041 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :netscape more like nutscrape < 1330267757 59304 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :intersuck exploder < 1330267794 534380 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome to 1997, kmc < 1330267817 667848 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330267825 96187 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox does not refresh innerHtml fast enough < 1330267826 361989 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at all. < 1330267859 807478 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have to refactor that to use setTimout calls < 1330267866 538819 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that sucks. < 1330267972 729524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: [THIS WEBSITE UNDER CONSTRUCTION] < 1330268003 556732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all wikis should have that, in big red letters, at the top of every page < 1330268149 5996 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :puh < 1330268154 104769 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate dom/js < 1330268186 52839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if they have a red background? < 1330268217 341428 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS WEBSITE UNDER CONSTRUCTION < 1330268228 179115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Even better. < 1330268288 450697 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox won't display what I tell him with innerHtml < 1330268320 838399 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1330268325 74702 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe invalid html < 1330268429 661472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it's innerHTML < 1330268481 919147 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. < 1330268492 732495 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't firefox tell me there's no innerHtml o_O < 1330268502 862706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can set any property you want on an object < 1330268508 388511 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm, I'm not sure that applies to DOM objects < 1330268510 647992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're using Firebug, right? < 1330268518 928034 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first rule of programming language design is, don't give any error messages < 1330268526 521822 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers /hate/ error messages < 1330268529 248280 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes them feel stupid < 1330268604 738167 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't give errors, just delete the source file if it's wrong < 1330269018 951293 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just to be safe, delete any other source files in the directory < 1330269024 335340 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, in case they have errors too < 1330269065 213942 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i successfully implemented BCT in sortle but then i tried to get fancy and i broke it < 1330269081 852083 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is where this story ends, for now < 1330269185 569784 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://eso.fmnssun.ibone.ch/beam/ <- Works \o/ < 1330269186 95138 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                            | < 1330269186 281980 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                           /| < 1330269206 28706 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fancy JS which displays how the code runs. < 1330269227 195729 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is cool < 1330269246 98972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sortle was turing-complete for a few brief minutes < 1330269271 121088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: does not appear to work in chromium :( < 1330269273 779947 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i still have the working version, it's just not fancy < 1330269277 708756 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hm? < 1330269283 866170 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define "not appear to work"? < 1330269307 413764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prgoram appears when i click run, but then nothing happens :) < 1330269324 364381 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you click on run under Debug the program should appear < 1330269331 934027 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the current instruction is highlighted green. < 1330269334 644940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1330269340 25761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program appears, but black on white, and nothing further happens < 1330269347 576732 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1330269436 535748 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :works in my chromium. < 1330269442 392661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what version? < 1330269451 834261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the output does come out after a while though < 1330269456 709454 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this is the fix for that bug: https://github.com/ghc/ghc/commit/536e2a029dcc11c33c9448146b34513c682f17a < 1330269459 414860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still no highlighting < 1330269461 508136 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.0.472.63 (59945) Built on Debian 6.0, running on Debian 6.0.4 < 1330269476 945963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: seems too recent < 1330269505 570049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: heh, well, mine is chrome 17 so it's pretty incomparable < 1330269556 212213 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Refresh the page < 1330269558 499181 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and click run again < 1330269563 711104 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see the green highlight, but only barely < 1330269572 387117 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it at least show an underline under the current instruction < 1330269581 935607 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit depending on contrast the green is difficult to see :D < 1330269590 103289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works now. how strange. < 1330269604 879351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice flow < 1330269617 811482 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it meant to get stuck in >-! ? < 1330269619 986164 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if instead of foreground you set the background color to #ff0 or something? < 1330269628 89979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it got out < 1330269649 470579 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not forever @stuck < 1330269660 218727 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-! zeroes the cell < 1330269663 240994 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case < 1330269668 286444 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in all cases as discussed above < 1330269672 897249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :#E1FECB and #EEF are good light backgrounds :p < 1330269675 739548 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-cell +beam < 1330269681 543222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: right, it escaped eventually < 1330269720 944899 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is the variable in this language called a "beam" < 1330269735 628922 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>-! only works if the value to zero is odd < 1330269760 700771 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's like a beam of light which travels through space < 1330269768 303414 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that beam can hold a value :) < 1330269788 304484 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a beam of light, that makes the bright yellow background color even more appropriate < 1330269795 297008 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1330269819 483416 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i changed line 45 of beam.js to text += '' + re + ''; < 1330269824 242383 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks great < 1330269850 34339 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, very nicely done javascript implementation < 1330269864 763653 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great to be able to see code run in this kind of language < 1330269870 524790 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's white on black < 1330269879 869723 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with yellow highlight < 1330269912 672769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i really like tracers of 2d languages < 1330269990 285373 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :feed it the even/odd program < 1330269994 637932 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the character A in stdin. < 1330270001 438429 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks more funny < 1330270014 803346 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Beam#Even_.2F_Odd < 1330270049 90282 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A is odd, B would be even and so) < 1330270859 560511 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330271130 292867 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1330271241 707979 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably reset stdout at run() < 1330271323 908477 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I should also dump the beam, store and memory access < 1330271402 830557 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1330271589 393748 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :done. < 1330271601 108602 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you can monitor the beam, store and memory at those locations < 1330272294 910326 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-155-106.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330272295 661577 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-239-143.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330272644 360420 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now < 1330272718 531898 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-047-024.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you know any language where the parsing rules are affected by the so-far inferred types of elements of the expression being parsed < 1330273577 467579 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know languages which you can't really parse at all without executing them < 1330273587 145600 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Perl or TeX < 1330273660 976657 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiui TeX basically consumes characters from its input one at a time, and processes them according to a table of rules, which can be modified by said processing < 1330274486 77465 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1330275459 182993 :azaq23!str1442@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330276015 469437 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish more esolangs actually bothered to have a syntax. < 1330276042 127619 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of them are just specified as a flat list of instructions. < 1330276060 611297 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because most of them are brainfuck clones ;) < 1330276097 528539 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I wish less esolangs were BF clones is putting it mildly, to say the least. < 1330276144 190594 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is a gateway esolang < 1330276280 960982 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Sailor Moon of esolangs. < 1330276314 82738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover < 1330276321 682432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your whole LIFE is a brainfuck derivative < 1330276326 783158 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1330276331 182782 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION brickbrains life
< 1330276390 679463 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are become brick < 1330276403 895716 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plural? < 1330276413 282999 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Phantom_Hoover, you ARE the brainfuck derivative. < 1330276426 302204 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then Phantom_Hoover was a brainfuck derivative) < 1330276427 88016 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like s-expression syntax would be a good choice for an esolang < 1330276435 930656 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like scheme would be a good choice for implementing esolangs < 1330276448 245069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1330276460 22773 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very flexible < 1330276465 365591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1330276484 493479 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubber: a good joice for implementing esolangs < 1330276489 575406 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1330276492 223980 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good choice < 1330276533 611123 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can play fun metacircular tricks < 1330276595 142073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only works when your language is close to scheme < 1330276598 666727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it probably isn't < 1330276603 892353 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have first-class continuations < 1330276611 855631 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can use to provide crazy control flow in your esolang < 1330276622 122140 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to provide fancy implementations that can run backwards etc < 1330276633 897443 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'd like to see more esolangs that are close to scheme < 1330276638 351903 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they would not be brainfuck clones ;) < 1330276654 310771 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an age-old rivalry of course < 1330276656 890649 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of a well-mapped design space < 1330276661 826395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but http://esolangs.org/wiki/Banana_Scheme :p < 1330276669 707073 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing machines vs. lambda calculus < 1330276698 488145 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads about banana scheme
< 1330276863 861781 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure it's that well-mapped < 1330277022 515107 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE899B4.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330277067 629945 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats on the new domain btw < 1330277096 34585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, same domain, new server < 1330277105 91920 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, did esolangs.org work before? < 1330277196 799377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org has worked since 2005 < 1330277250 104854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a mirror of esoteric.voxelperfect.net for pretty much forever < 1330277257 210039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although we swapped round which was the primary domain in the server move < 1330277259 636424 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1330277317 3156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though esolangs.org was always the more popular domain) < 1330277503 315273 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I always used esoteric.voxelperfect.net, which seemed easier to remember < 1330277504 252124 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1330277580 692859 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easier to remember than 'esolangs.org'??? < 1330277617 249177 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org not the direct link to the wiki < 1330277631 134330 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org pointed to some intermediate page < 1330277635 604000 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which had a link to the wiki < 1330277639 82160 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still does, always has. < 1330277645 343087 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no @still does < 1330277651 570752 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org now redirects directly to the wiki < 1330277655 241505 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, no. < 1330277660 492794 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wtf < 1330277664 196665 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, my cache was WAY out of date. < 1330277667 691978 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship, I kept think it was esolang.com < 1330277669 304699 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard refresh and it goes to the wiki X-D < 1330277672 74099 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or without a time interval < 1330277692 509699 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Using cache is so 1990 ;) < 1330277927 841669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : esolangs.org pointed to some intermediate page < 1330277928 28508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : which had a link to the wiki < 1330277932 745309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did esoteric.voxelperfect.net. < 1330278042 295967 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought esoteric.voxelperfect.net went directly to the wiki < 1330278049 889319 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1330278052 830397 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I usually typed esolangs.org/wiki/ < 1330278053 16922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki did < 1330278084 920718 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the esoteric file archive there is a Brainfuck Genetic Text Generator. < 1330278091 590423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen this thing < 1330278096 693198 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​88 +++++++++++++[>++>+++++++++>++++++++>+<<<<-]>>-.>.+.<-.<++++++.>+.>-.+.<------.>--.>---. [649] < 1330278110 439048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, esoteric.voxelperfect.net was literally identical to esolangs.org. < 1330278112 796974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now they're not. < 1330278118 758964 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this produce optimal bf-code to print out strings? < 1330278125 119672 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimal = smallest possible? < 1330278139 414220 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen A < 1330278142 193715 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​35 ++++++++[>++++++++>+>><<<<-]>+.>++. [7] < 1330278173 34126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: that's (provably) impossible. < 1330278194 233950 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it impossible? It's just extremely inefficient < 1330278210 794283 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halting problem? < 1330278212 651902 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess) < 1330278217 260782 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes < 1330278218 683471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity#Incomputability_of_Kolmogorov_complexity < 1330278222 385745 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn < 1330278228 34081 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halting problem my enemy < 1330278241 161397 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's impossible /and/ extremely inefficient < 1330278243 268569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the halting problem only breaks the obvious brute-forcing approach. < 1330278255 68956 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In theory yes. < 1330278261 471348 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just limit the runtime of a program. < 1330278272 100714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which would stop you getting the "optimal", "smallest possible" < 1330278280 464614 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily. < 1330278286 864126 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would < 1330278294 427096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that you might sometimes hit upon the optimal program with such a process does not mean it would "work" < 1330278295 961108 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to redefine optimal < 1330278298 970999 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a program runs longer than 10seconds < 1330278306 905277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., the process "return '.' for every string" also gives the optimal program for the output string "\000" < 1330278311 675903 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has not generated a single number from 0-255 < 1330278317 827825 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not a useful program ;) < 1330278323 724896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you never said useful. < 1330278330 279200 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you define optimal as in "shortest running time", then generate an upper bound, and then brute force with a time limit < 1330278335 353835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful is a whole 'nother bag of constraints... and one incredibly hard to codify < 1330278337 233505 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that I mean endless loop < 1330278358 311544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there are in fact an infinite number of programs fitting that criterion that are not infinite loops :) < 1330278358 498441 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PART #esoteric :"Goodbye" < 1330278364 488750 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330278367 827799 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :How high is the probability that the optimal program to print 'A' runs longer than 10 seconds? < 1330278374 505330 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you end up with just +++++++++++++... < 1330278383 696048 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman, non-zero < 1330278393 625859 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, non-zero. < 1330278402 17504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: you can create a provably perfect program for 'A' I'm sure < 1330278411 127752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the optimal program to generate ord 'A' plus a . < 1330278416 351944 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The propability that 1 bit got shifted in your memory is also non-zero ;) < 1330278427 139514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much higher than zero, RAM errors happen all the time < 1330278448 529474 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's unlikely for "A" but there will be pathological strings that any such "reasonable" algorithm fails at < 1330278449 538370 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The probability of an ice cream suddenly appearing in my hand is non-zero < 1330278464 236773 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unlikely, but still theoretically possible < 1330278470 118957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :making something reasonable doesn't defeat the mathematics :) < 1330278656 882144 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about < 1330278671 599699 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Printing 'A' requires a programm of length 65 < 1330278675 308646 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not optimal < 1330278692 387580 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++(65x). < 1330278713 164912 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330278714 1478 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which takes 65 "cycles" < 1330278736 420201 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a theoretical optimal program have more or less cycles or the same amount of cycles? < 1330278766 963333 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume, if there are no qualifiers, that "optimal" in this context is the shortest. < 1330278769 539139 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, i wrote a brute force-ish hack to convert strings to BF code recently. I’ll paste it, a moment… < 1330278796 27107 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: In this context, yes. < 1330278798 203322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is likely to take more cycles than that. < 1330278816 158200 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+. < 1330278816 344933 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1330278844 514097 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :8*8+1 < 1330278860 228368 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1330278866 19560 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we count [ and ] as a cycle? < 1330278887 24383 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not? < 1330278889 646646 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] < 1330278898 968022 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that have infinite cycles < 1330278901 369184 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at max < 1330278903 308461 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :two at least < 1330278906 775573 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has < 1330278919 306591 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/1917958 < 1330278928 945497 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1330278935 525182 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has more than 65 cycles, yes. < 1330278941 23114 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One, if you think that the [ skips past the matching ], and current value is zero. < 1330278948 422016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has more than 65 even if you don't count the loops. < 1330278956 435776 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1330278958 849321 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :><- < 1330278965 632546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++[>+<++++]>++.!it's shorter with wrapping cells. < 1330278965 820051 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1330278981 533293 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to have two lists of brainfuck constants. < 1330279004 864532 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1330279017 244594 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even possible to have a brainfuck program that prints A with less than 65 cycles? < 1330279024 708110 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in less < 1330279030 200544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Does it beat our GENETICS? < 1330279050 322258 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_textgen ABCDE < 1330279061 827979 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It probably won’t beat anything. < 1330279087 948943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen ABCDE < 1330279092 16046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf_txtgen is rather bad for short strings if you don't manually lower the number of "terms". < 1330279092 399005 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​43 +++++++++[>+++++++>+>><<<<-]>++.+.+.+.+.>+. [189] < 1330279101 978652 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the >><< there, for example. < 1330279110 816431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should've been run with -t 2. < 1330279112 86443 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :λ> toBF "ABCDE" < 1330279113 730230 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :expr 34 ">+++++++[<+++++++++>-]<++.+.+.+.+." < 1330279148 878251 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Sure, but bf_txtgen is pretty darn good for very long strings. How does ion's toBF cope? < 1330279151 688651 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​804 ++++++++++++++[>+++>++++++>++++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>-.>>+++++.<++.-------------.<<++.------------.>>---.>.-.<<<.>+++++++++++++++.>++++.-------.>.++++.----.<<+++++.--.>>------.<---------------------------------------------------------------.>-----.++++++++++.<.>---.++.<<.>>++..+++++.<.<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.---.>>>-------.----.<.<++.++++++++..<+++.>>.<<++.>.+++.>.<++++.<-.>----.+++++++.>.<<+++++++.>----------.-. < 1330279162 780238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO pretty darn good. < 1330279172 180945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that got kind of cut off, too. < 1330279174 889711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You have that there scientific cluster, don't you? < 1330279176 619639 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :friendship: 1443 < 1330279184 990879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How willing are you to misuse it for important esoteric research? < 1330279199 600406 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*important* < 1330279220 863733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1330279222 301436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :important. < 1330279228 167338 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1330279231 124746 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It simply generates a constant expression for each character’s delta from the previous one. < 1330279232 355801 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding shortest brainfuck constants? < 1330279239 617881 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brute-forcing, to be precise. < 1330279241 161696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: With -t 6 and a bit of running, it goes down to 722. < 1330279255 428593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, a theoretically-impossible task; except I have a semiprecise definition of "useful".) < 1330279265 322787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For instance in this case the setting is actually sub-TC.) < 1330279266 312776 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not very. < 1330279279 27162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But... what if it was *super* fun? < 1330279280 800590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't even misused it for that AI tournament, and that's even a course. < 1330279287 840127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you misused it for a silly once. < 1330279289 720071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I misremember? < 1330279312 504420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember anything like that, but that's no proof. < 1330279319 286945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, 679. < 1330279323 900507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon it'll fit in IRC. < 1330279328 502791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "soon". < 1330279335 366576 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen ☺ < 1330279337 265031 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​86 +++++++++++++++[>+++++++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++++++++>+<<<<-]>+.>++.>++++++.>-----. [107] < 1330279351 28598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, if you chose not to remember it not happening, would that convince you? < 1330279374 975719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++[>+++++++>+>><<<<-]>++.+.+.+.+.>+. < 1330279375 163782 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABCDE. < 1330279379 526332 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it adds a newline too. < 1330279410 278847 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the proper comparison would've been against "ABCDE\n". < 1330279442 64697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1330279442 252200 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 9h 18m 19s ago: wow, your BCT interpreter was 2009? < 1330279443 168862 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, my code is actually broken when it makes nested loops. Oh well, i have already lost the interest to toy with it. < 1330279450 47310 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: seems so < 1330279467 998521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: seems later. < 1330279518 603346 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not wanting to go down from 622. :/ :/ :\ < 1330279552 11820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you know what could help it? < 1330279631 661598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PERFECT CONSTANTS. < 1330279644 994861 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330279700 493241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe it's because i didn't do anything big in 2010. or did i? < 1330279732 880536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, there was that one time you saved the world from an alien attack. < 1330279753 681506 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1330279755 480155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sadly i had to erase that from memory. or so i assume. < 1330279846 122174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you know that you have the most edits on the wiki? < 1330279854 611130 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ignoring reverts, undos and edits with "spam" in the summary < 1330279864 355970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow < 1330279882 994493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. 1813 total, 1473 non-spamcleanup < 1330279894 131419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I ran a DB query out of curiosity) < 1330279925 90140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is _possible_ some of the remaining summaries are still spam, of course :) < 1330279939 656357 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug report: Special:Statistics shows there are -1 active members. < 1330279945 723265 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly confident this is false < 1330279978 969581 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well < 1330279979 461653 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select count(*) from revision where rev_user = 89 and rev_comment not like 'Undo%' and rev_comment not like 'Revert%' and rev_comment not like '%spam%' and rev_comment not like '%SPAM%'; < 1330279979 663015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+----------+ < 1330279979 849765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| count(*) | < 1330279979 849963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+----------+ < 1330279980 444289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| 1472 | < 1330279982 477647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+----------+ < 1330279984 653162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :better query suggestions welcome :P < 1330279994 723761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: yes, seen and annoyed < 1330279998 587857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it might fix itself in ~30 days < 1330280016 43059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select count(*) from revision where rev_user = 89 and rev_comment not like 'Undo%' and rev_comment not like 'Revert%' and rev_comment not like '%spam%' and rev_comment not like '%SPAM%' and rev_comment not like '%Spam%'; < 1330280016 244487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+----------+ < 1330280016 432531 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| count(*) | < 1330280016 619079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+----------+ < 1330280018 575709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| 1471 | < 1330280020 545111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+----------+ < 1330280024 836165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't think there's any way down from this totem pole of prominence. < 1330280037 746102 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On another note, this is my best family tree making program ever < 1330280039 594231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'm suggesting that i sometimes use rather punny summaries < 1330280047 964554 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually has an interface < 1330280052 956510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select count(*) from revision where rev_user = 89 and rev_comment not like 'Undo%' and rev_comment not like 'Revert%' and rev_comment not like '%spam%' and rev_comment not like '%SPAM%' and rev_comment not like '%Spam%' and rev_comment not like '%revert%' and rev_comment not like '%rv%'; ---> 1461 < 1330280072 688924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i _do_ correct a lot of typos and stuff < 1330280087 499943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok well if you figure out a way to shave off another 192 edits from that total you'll be second place < 1330280090 35385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with that < 1330280112 248819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it'll take more than that i guess. since the second place has done spam reversions too, obviously < 1330280124 986597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you should just accept it. as well as the mandatory administrator rights it brings :D < 1330280161 926436 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph. what a disappointingly subdued reaction. < 1330280174 237045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O KAY < 1330280183 281501 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what subdued reaction? < 1330280190 697957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you'll be lulled into complacency < 1330280197 716971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then ais523 will do it out of the blue < 1330280209 304494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what? < 1330280223 446964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysop you. < 1330280231 277843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can he do that? < 1330280234 979089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't sysop someone without their permission < 1330280236 245662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I can < 1330280236 431993 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. i made him a 'crat < 1330280250 583239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(elliott gave me the required perms as part of the wiki move) < 1330280282 476028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is all-powerful. second only to the aller-powerfulest me. i have the ability to run fun queries to satisfy my curiosity on the live database < 1330280336 936769 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, why does elliott have imperium maius?) < 1330280339 440195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway, see, complacency. < 1330280350 318783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: COMPLACENCY < 1330280372 292512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the alternative was timwi, or something. < 1330280388 958944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The alternative was the communists. < 1330280394 898925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you translate Esolang permissions into Wikimedia permissions, I'd be a steward and elliott'd be a dev < 1330280397 822383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they walk among us < 1330280446 670272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: devs don't usually have divine right to rule, do they? < 1330280457 831611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, i said nothing. < 1330280468 32381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have the technical capability to do so, but aren't allowed to < 1330280470 601284 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAN but SHALL NOT, etc < 1330280476 639536 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought you were a communist? You were on Pyralspite < 1330280498 42227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was just a trap. to track down the communists. < 1330280500 58074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :once a year they go around wearing red and putting evil communist subsidies in americans' socks < 1330280515 817508 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote communism < 1330280518 491126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well they always wear red, of course, when they're not being stealthy) < 1330280524 662677 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :486) This staircase is very good for correcting people's opininons about communism < 1330280553 405384 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPLETELY NEUTRAL OUT OF CONTEXT < 1330280559 790041 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RELATIVELY NEUTRAL IN CONTEXT < 1330280572 333331 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I love being centre-left on the political spectrum < 1330280588 528654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever get the feeling Taneb isn't real < 1330280612 984796 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once convinced myself I was a figment of elliott's imagination. < 1330280628 563298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i could think you up < 1330280634 186212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm i'd be assuming the reason you never met was because _you_ aren't real, but perhaps neither of you is. < 1330280637 517533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*been < 1330280669 489671 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire of South West Northumberland doesn't exist < 1330280677 103054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: come on, which is more believable? < 1330280681 101224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was here first. < 1330280690 444353 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1330280692 314996 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been heard of outside of IRC < 1330280714 221917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Northumberland doesn't have a South West, it's North by definition < 1330280717 557773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so has elliott. < 1330280727 339167 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been heard of outside the Internet < 1330280731 799982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, that's what you said, just in different words < 1330280732 871283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: not by me < 1330280738 210577 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1330280753 773239 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BY THE MAJORITY OF 15-18 YEAR OLDS IN SOUTH-WEST NORTHUMBERLAND < 1330280754 47587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neither has elliott) < 1330280777 506780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is being a hermit nice? hexham is so crowded. < 1330280780 177357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Taneb, and all. < 1330280789 304728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: they don't count, since that place doesn't exist < 1330280806 511428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote hermit < 1330280810 250863 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name has been mentioned in the Hexham Courant < 1330280810 437925 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :512) i try to be a hermit but it's hard with all these housemates. < 1330280826 147593 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY'RE STILL THERE < 1330280826 373582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sure. "housemates" < 1330280904 951282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, one of them started coughing like on queue < 1330280939 589900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cue < 1330280944 507396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1330280951 50250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :que? < 1330280973 102728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :spell things correctly, that's the quay < 1330280998 532745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1330281024 419974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: rev_comment not regexp '^(Undo|Revert|[Ss][Pp][Aa][Mm])' or some-such. < 1330281026 83657 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330281104 977101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh sure. With your fancy "regexps". < 1330281107 870952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your "science". < 1330281123 329047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you're smart, how about giving me a query for all users with 0 undeleted revisions, and more than 0 deleted revisions, huh? < 1330281214 331428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suddenly the smartFinn smarts NO MORE. < 1330281257 509351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know the MySQL or the mediawiki DB schema. :/ < 1330281265 166262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: rev_comment not regexp '^(Undo|Revert|[Ss][Pp][Aa][Mm])' or some-such. < 1330281268 345333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN WHAT AM THIS??? < 1330281281 67952 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the rev_comment came from your thing, and the regexp I've seen. < 1330281304 516835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I did do a Grasp 'cat' program in the hypothetical edge-labeled Grasp, it's at http://zem.fi/~fis/grasp-cat.png < 1330281321 926954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id) > 0; < 1330281324 892194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's this or something. < 1330281331 976835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But boy is it slow. < 1330281355 6561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh that's nice. < 1330281357 272134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are forgiven. < 1330281413 956190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, I don't think there's an index that would work for that < 1330281456 968452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like a surer check :(
< 1330281509 46702 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if adding new syntax highlighting to pandoc requires modifying and recompiling highlighting-kate < 1330281531 599705 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a huge package that takes forever to build in cabal's single-threaded world < 1330281536 127748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear they made that package nicer < 1330281761 549430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could eliminate a subselect by grouping archive by user, something like select ar_user from archive group by ar_user having (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = ar_user) = 0 -- that way it'd only consider users found in the 'archive' table. < 1330281807 783842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's advice: don't be so distracted you try to eat your vitamin pill and a piece of bread at the same time. < 1330281811 95003 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yuck) < 1330281836 738462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, i don't _have_ a twitter account) < 1330281850 473512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How about a facebook? < 1330281854 757954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither. < 1330282014 702265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many facebooks are there? < 1330282018 550589 :PiRSquared17!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330282037 415611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the way they speak nowadays is "I have a facebook" "my facebook was hacked" etc. < 1330282060 989304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like people who think that their computer came with Google as its OS < 1330282070 766578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, that they can't change their homepage or the entire system will break < 1330282072 780787 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they said at one point "my MP3 is red and holds a thousand songs"; they're talking about a portable player. < 1330282075 652823 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's hypothesis: the reason aliens have not contacted us is because they cannot find a way to do it without violating our i.p. laws < 1330282124 468757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically all aliens are ais523 clones) < 1330282175 432323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly ais523 _is_ their emissary, but they wiped his mind for the same reason. < 1330282316 680396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it could be that or the immigration laws. < 1330282500 786472 :PiRSquared17!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330283187 81479 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330283277 674447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: You could eliminate a subselect by grouping archive by user, something like select ar_user from archive group by ar_user having (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = ar_user) = 0 -- that way it'd only consider users found in the 'archive' table. < 1330283284 303230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also there's a cache for the count revision of user. < 1330283289 398997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it might include deleted edits too. < 1330283349 51277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think the way they speak nowadays is "I have a facebook" "my facebook was hacked" etc. < 1330283349 238056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : this is like people who think that their computer came with Google as its OS < 1330283349 238235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and thus, that they can't change their homepage or the entire system will break < 1330283370 334062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see how this is unreasonable; plenty of things have been "nounified" in a similar way < 1330283374 23032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, even "IRC" has < 1330283402 994264 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it's a collective noun < 1330283405 371428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_my_ IRC hasn't < 1330283406 37094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't say "an IRC" < 1330283407 491478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn. < 1330283420 47955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say "an IRC server", or "an IRC client", or "an IRC channel", but not "an IRC" in the abstract < 1330283438 828777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, "email" < 1330283441 241611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my email is ..." < 1330283445 83145 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1330283446 977144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly reasonable and ubiquitous < 1330283464 956513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I more commonly see it used to mean "email message" than "email address2 < 1330283466 372512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*" < 1330283497 972603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but they're both just like "facebook" < 1330283674 91465 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also what does group by actually do? < 1330283702 446804 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puh. < 1330283707 161250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it puhs. < 1330283715 585698 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought translating BF-Loops to Beam would be trivial :) < 1330283731 368038 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out it's more tedious than I thought. < 1330283743 348835 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++[>++++++<-]> < 1330283749 258039 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Brainfuck constant 24) < 1330283757 544838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any ideas for ways to turn that query into something more unambiguously spammer-only? < 1330283768 359725 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :v v < < 1330283768 546280 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :p/++++Pnv>'p++++++P`p-Pu'p: < 1330283769 327817 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>^ > ^ < 1330283770 105381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets 3289 users < 1330283780 65385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is amazing, we could eliminate the vast majority of spammers with a single query if refined < 1330283780 251983 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :translated to beam :) < 1330283785 734415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (every time oerjan tried to figure out whether another subset of Underload is TC I would insist it can't possibly be, but he proved me wrong every time :)) < 1330283812 170986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I wouldn't be sure that would have no false positives < 1330283817 676593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I doubt there can be many < 1330283818 81191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, i agreed with your predictions every time too, i just didn't let that stop me from disproving them :) < 1330283828 823767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: reminds me of the 2,3 thing, I thought it was incomplete < 1330283832 962137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until I proved otherwise < 1330283838 778739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that took me by surprise < 1330283845 864719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed :P < 1330283860 591127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::^() being sub-TC I probably would have bet money on < 1330283875 775892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw, I tried getting oerjanswap to type < 1330283883 773784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm a bit confused about whether it does or not < 1330283883 960479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: hmm, I wouldn't be sure that would have no false positives < 1330283886 721826 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall what oerjanswap is < 1330283888 653748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's why I want more conditions to refine it :P < 1330283889 665390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I should try in Haskell < 1330283897 972550 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's the implementation of ~ in terms of the other primitives < 1330283901 809617 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1330283909 119545 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1330283931 972470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :replacing f with \x.f x is called eta-expansion, right? < 1330283945 99590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1330283960 428105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to placate the OCaml type-checker somewhat < 1330283964 826569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that's enough, though < 1330283972 956092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reminds me of the anecdote of that mathematician who stood up during a conference and asked "Excuse me, but what is a Hilbert space?") < 1330283975 791413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eventually got oerjanswap to type, but the type is obviously far too complex < 1330283996 572886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can get a long way understanding the concepts but not the names for them < 1330284017 239986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It, uh, groups by. If you "group by X, Y, Z", the final results will have one row for each distinct tuple (X, Y, Z) that exists (post-WHERE), and any aggregate expressions like count(*) or sum(W) in the columns-to-select are calculated over the groups. (And then a HAVING clause is pretty much identical to WHERE, except it's done post-GROUP BY, so you can use the said aggregate expressions in the conditions.) < 1330284027 601516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: RELATIONAL THEORY IS HARD. < 1330284030 123694 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1330284036 562185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SPOLIER: the mathematician was David Hilbert) < 1330284052 853819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D really? < 1330284062 564915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well that's about how i heard it. < 1330284076 202405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i don't care whether it's true < 1330284079 757073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that someone other than you made it up < 1330284134 353475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. i think my advisor told it to me. < 1330284173 977431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I thought of a filtering query < 1330284181 587326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all your spam page deletions have had "spam" in the summary, right? < 1330284192 204535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /all/ of them, I often typo it < 1330284197 587166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the vast majority < 1330284201 638580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1330284212 47704 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I'll just make sure the deleted revisions are from those < 1330284219 847808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, legitimate users will sometimes have edited pages which were deleted for spam < 1330284230 288526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some people blanked spam pages, before I told them not to because it was pointless < 1330284237 39151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they won't have undeleted-editcount 0 and deleted-editcount >0 < 1330284240 580355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should check for the person who /created/ a page deleted as spam < 1330284244 249727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, /probably/ not < 1330284247 534803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1330284250 632636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea how to do that :P < 1330284276 406192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1330284287 735630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh archive contains page records. < 1330284298 145930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my query _was_ page creators < 1330284312 537507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it's only finding users that have 0 nondeleted edits, and who have created at least 1 deleted page < 1330284334 14415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :archive is edits to deleted pages, isn't it? < 1330284339 497633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, "deleted revisions" < 1330284340 523745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The archive table is the place where MediaWiki stores information on deleted pages. The pages may be restored, or undeleted, by a MediaWiki Administrator using the Special:Undelete special page. Beginning in MediaWiki 1.5, the content of the pages remains in the text table; the deletion time is logged in the logging table. < 1330284342 473489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1330284350 995169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1330284360 424417 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I just need to tie it into the deletion reason now < 1330284366 404786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid, e.g. people who just worked on one article which then got deleted < 1330284371 773458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you end up deleting my account, I'll get annoyed < 1330284393 576450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1330284394 257485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When a page is deleted, all its old revisions move from the revision table to the archive table" < 1330284407 719275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does mediawiki gotta make this difficult? < 1330284501 199630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, what about this: "All users with 0 undeleted edits and >0 deleted edits to pages deleted with summary 'spam'" < 1330284517 21106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only false positives will be people who registered, blanked spam, and then never did anything else /ever/ < 1330284526 428475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think we've had anyone do that < 1330284527 435894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theoretically it isn't perfect, but I doubt it'll have false positives in practice < 1330284533 318610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:31:07: right, but the only thing you need to maintain is whether it halts or not < 1330284536 685260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:31:14: by definition of TCness < 1330284545 451019 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of not including even a single output bit disturbs me. < 1330284553 700262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: er that's the halts bit < 1330284566 546503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, its value is uncomputable. < 1330284575 263816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about: "All bad users." (SQL can do that, right?) < 1330284577 217314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only uncomputable if it's a 1 < 1330284582 477480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...0 < 1330284582 695255 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a 0, you can compute it just fine < 1330284586 859451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have it flipped < 1330284589 530706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1330284590 469969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: totally < 1330284600 33139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is disturbing. to me, to be TC you should be able to use it to get the full results of an ordinary TM. < 1330284601 770789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway BCT ends with 0 usable bits < 1330284608 306282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, tough :P < 1330284620 598216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: on the BCT page it says to output the deleted bits. < 1330284629 243868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what i did for /// < 1330284633 569874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. but that's just a suggestion. < 1330284685 995635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i assumed it was because that _is_ enough information to extract a result from. < 1330284800 924495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, only 3803 articles deleted with %spam% comment < 1330284812 291890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it should be more < 1330284823 869969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select log_title from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%'; < 1330284829 859124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to integrate this with the above query... < 1330284835 598959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could make sort of a note somewhere on the login page to contact you if you think the account has been blocked in error < 1330284849 251792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like. < 1330284862 589232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the accounts are probably going to be deleted altogether, as the only people who could see them would be admins anyway < 1330284876 300585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how to I say "count of all entries in FOO table matching these criteria where a corresponding entry in BAR table exists matching these criteria" < 1330284879 27426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do < 1330284899 702744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there may be multiple such entries in BAR, but I only care about the existence of one) < 1330284907 226678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or forall, if that's more convenient) < 1330284915 442328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :corresponding = with this field matching that field < 1330284942 640903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway I won't run any query I'm not sure won't block legit users < 1330284956 687162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well beyond a reasonable doubt, anyway < 1330285076 349145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The straight-forward way would be to subquery it with SELECT count(*) FROM FOO WHERE x AND y AND z AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM BAR WHERE thisfield = thatfield AND p AND q). Alternatively, some sort of a join. < 1330285091 754383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought it would be a GROUP BY. < 1330285094 963395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it a group by? < 1330285147 985329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably not a group by when you don't want a set of unique somethings. < 1330285176 223354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand this "set of unique somethings" technobabble. :( < 1330285185 762071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM TRYING SO HARD HERE < 1330285232 788668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, uh, if you have the table ((john, 123), (john, 456), (john, 789), (mick, 1111), (mick, 2222)) and you want the output ((john, 3), (mick, 2)) where the numbers are the number of john- and mick-rows, that's probably a place for a group by. < 1330285258 760206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a SELECT name, count(*) FROM thing GROUP BY name. < 1330285258 946463 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1330285289 179339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the aggregates like 'count' will then be run over the rows in each group.) < 1330285299 73571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The query here is "count of entries in the revision table where user id = X and ", where the <>s stuff is either "exists log entry where page id = col_of_revision_thing and summary..." or "forall log entries where page id = col_of_revision_thing, we ahve summary...") < 1330285309 964721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1330285362 615024 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, why doesn't MySQL just use propositional logic? < 1330285382 476623 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because MySQL somehow uses relational algebra? < 1330285396 955011 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least that would be cool. < 1330285397 762029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? Does it really? < 1330285406 810476 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does and it does not. < 1330285423 687832 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It NULLs relational algebra. < 1330285453 435122 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be at least doable (if not optimally so) with a SELECT count(*) FROM revision WHERE rev_user = X AND EXISTS (SELECT * FROM logorwhatever WHERE log_page_id = rev_page_id AND log_summary = ...). < 1330285478 672715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Would a FORALL be just as easy? (Not really a "big ie", as they say.) < 1330285516 843867 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you change that SELECT * in the EXISTS clause to SELECT 1 < 1330285545 5762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_page = ar_page_id)) > 0; < 1330285549 878588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gullpe. < 1330285559 327425 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fields selected shouldn't matter at all for an EXISTS query. < 1330285577 438395 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty set (15.31 sec) < 1330285580 181552 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1330285582 706143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have a complaint. < 1330285586 622884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't work. < 1330285664 50447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works without "and exists ..." onwards. < 1330285703 489936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odde, < 1330285705 416373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = ar_title)) > 0; < 1330285707 77240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine. < 1330285710 770885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess them page IDs be the screwies. < 1330285736 891024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly; I don't really know how those go. < 1330285746 556111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Guess who has a 2861-long list of basically certain spambots? < 1330285772 354552 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you? < 1330285777 371980 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's the bit in the archive table's description of how "ar_page_id: Reference to page_id. -- Will be NULL for pages deleted prior to 1.11." < 1330285783 411405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, me. < 1330285785 132222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah. < 1330285785 321087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2861 is low enough to quickly check the list by eye < 1330285790 883849 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, I just scanned it < 1330285797 4143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's patterns and obvious spambot names and the like < 1330285842 259671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Now, out of curiosity, say I wanted to add the constraint to that archive select that the ar_timestamp was the lowest of all ar_timestamps in the archive table for the same (ar_title,ar_namespace) pair. < 1330285847 8890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult/horrific would that be? < 1330285853 502018 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This corresponding to the "page creation" concept.) < 1330285869 580299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to selF: < 1330285870 635345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*self < 1330285872 862813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = ar_title and log_namespace = ar_namespace)) > 0; < 1330285973 157573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think fizzie "ran away", as they say in Denmark. < 1330285980 930284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's not too difficult to express as a yet another subquery, obviously -- I mean, it's just "... and ar_timestamp = (select min(ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = ar_namespace) ...", except you may need to add a name for the first archive table for disambiguation -- but it's probably utterly slow to run. < 1330285991 132392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how scary: that query went from ~35 seconds to ~15 seconds to 0 seconds. < 1330286000 637033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's building caches and indexes and whatnot behidnbehind my back. Spooky. < 1330286112 96772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id and ar_timestamp = (select min(ar2.ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = ar_namespace) and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = ar_title < 1330286112 321096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : and log_namespace = ar_namespace)) > 0; < 1330286112 321311 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR 1054 (42S22): Unknown column 'ar2.ar_timestamp' in 'field list' < 1330286119 20354 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I did a wrong. :( < 1330286150 488345 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wrote "ar2" and not "a2". < 1330286154 847419 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the min(). < 1330286162 643369 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Where I actually forgot to have the name at all.) < 1330286190 120571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure if it needs one, there. < 1330286194 348713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Opse". < 1330286217 819111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now it go whirr. Whirr whirr whirr. < 1330286223 110650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2861 to what-will-it-be? < 1330286259 558790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it an empty set!!! < 1330286267 971465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nose. < 1330286274 963464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "The format of timestamps used in MediaWiki URLs and in some of the MediaWiki database fields is yyyymmddhhmmss. For example, the timestamp for August 9th, 2010 00:30:06 UTC is 20100809003006. The timezone for these timestamps is UTC." < 1330286283 184129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This shouldn't cause problems, right? < 1330286338 206171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure how "min" is specified to work; that certainly looks like it should sort right. < 1330286366 41958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's treating "ar_title" as ar2.ar_title? < 1330286370 433180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the subquery. < 1330286371 745813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's very possible. < 1330286385 643714 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case it'd yield min(ar_timestamp) over the whole archive table for each test. < 1330286396 883969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I need MORE NAMES. < 1330286404 361343 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to make the first archive an "archive a1" and then a1.'s there. < 1330286417 932195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive a1 where a1.ar_user = user_id and a1.ar_timestamp = (select min(a2.ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = a1.ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_ti < 1330286418 118731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tle = a1.ar_title and log_namespace = a1.ar_namespace)) > 0; < 1330286423 417183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the Worst Query Ever. < 1330286442 787582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2860! < 1330286445 476846 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which one DIED. < 1330286450 144238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How do you diff two resultsets? < 1330286582 72331 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gngh. It may be easiest to just stuff those results into two temporary tables, but of course that's not very pretty. I'm sure there's some way of just doing the whole thing as a single statement, too. < 1330286601 769562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523????? I bet he knows. < 1330286626 405913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at SQL < 1330286630 306269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_operations_(SQL) Perhaps "EXCEPT"? < 1330286655 936301 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I only remembered the UNION one. < 1330286667 76471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks possible. < 1330286678 902083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming MySQL has it. < 1330286695 603343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Ha, he makes the comedy. < 1330286696 309725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1330286715 227159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> (select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = ar_title and log_namespace = ar_namespace)) > 0) except (select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = < 1330286715 453124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive a1 where a1.ar_user = user_id and a1.ar_timestamp = (select min(a2.ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = a1.ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = a1.ar_title and log_namespace = a1.ar_namespace)) > 0); < 1330286722 557145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to go back in time and put my childhood self off coding forever. < 1330286738 870848 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it actually accept that thing? < 1330286742 611078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1330286746 442211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't know what 'except" means. < 1330286755 680237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intersection and Set-Difference in MySQL (A workaround for EXCEPT)" < 1330286757 337531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the syntax calls for ()s around the queries, either; but right. < 1330286760 883508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arse. < 1330286767 58297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To get the set difference, here is a similar approach using a sub query: < 1330286767 246852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : SELECT DISTINCT * < 1330286767 247030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : FROM R < 1330286767 247132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHERE NOT EXISTS (SELECT * FROM S WHERE R.a = S.a AND R.b = S.b); < 1330286767 247240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1330286767 772900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arse. < 1330286770 197991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the LEFT JOIN replacement also mentioned by the wikipedia page. < 1330286781 508718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, err, how do you stuff results into temporary tables? < 1330286845 632506 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be INSERT INTO tbl SELECT user_name FROM ... except there's probably some notation to make a really temporary per-connection table, instead of a "real" one. < 1330286880 439182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm crying, you know. < 1330286881 853243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of SQL. < 1330286896 233802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just inverts the check that's causing it.
< 1330286901 505423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :By enforcing it to _not_ be the minimum. < 1330286903 400353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEVER, NO?! < 1330286912 242506 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whirrrrrrrrr. < 1330286914 512606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whirrrrr < 1330286916 40375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrrr < 1330286918 75466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrrq < 1330286959 109342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, it returned the 130. < 1330286961 62009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the confused. < 1330286969 263272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that's: curious. < 1330286986 591791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will apply the "not thinking about it" tactic. < 1330287086 842845 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330287096 957795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I figure if we get the number of total accounts down to 1,000 or so, it'll be easy to hand-review the remaining ones < 1330287119 147362 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1330287119 334269 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-54-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1330287119 334416 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1330287132 314202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, here's a generic "return only the user_name's from [query1] that are not returned by [query2]" that might or might not work with MySQL: < 1330287136 689358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god. < 1330287144 264192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SELECT q1.user_name FROM (SELECT user_name FROM user WHERE [query1]) AS q1 LEFT JOIN (SELECT user_name FROM user WHERE [query2]) AS q2 ON q1.user_name = q2.user_name WHERE q2.user_name IS NULL < 1330287154 705527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh sure, leave me to do the pastering. < 1330287161 840181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've left out most of [query1] and [query2] in interests of brevity. < 1330287201 531248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> SELECT q1.user_name FROM (SELECT user_name FROM user WHERE (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = ar_title)) > 0) AS q1 LEFT JOIN (SELECT user_name FROM user WHERE (select count(*) from revision where rev_user < 1330287201 722149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = ar_title and log_namespace = ar_namespace)) > 0) AS q2 ON q1.user_name = q2.user_name WHERE q2.user_name IS NULL; < 1330287208 327710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it's actually running. < 1330287237 703622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might've been able to use a NATURAL LEFT JOIN as opposed to LEFT JOIN ... ON q1.user_name = q2.user_name, actually. < 1330287266 832470 :azaq23!str1442@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1330287268 297435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty set (54.86 sec) < 1330287271 461477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1330287274 800232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :From this I conclude that 0 = 1 = 130. < 1330287294 380959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it safe to delete users in an automated fashion from a database haunted by a ghost? < 1330287305 45021 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330287308 800526 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: probably not < 1330287309 845148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the min(a2.ar_timestamp) in all of that? < 1330287317 939135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh. < 1330287322 943678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the same query twice, isn't it? < 1330287327 442943 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what sort of ghost < 1330287327 629600 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... might be. < 1330287335 23063 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so dazzling, it's hard to say. < 1330287357 667485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You want q1 to be the one that returns more rows.) < 1330287367 760513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> SELECT q1.user_name FROM (SELECT user_name FROM user WHERE (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive where ar_user = user_id and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = ar_title)) > 0) AS q1 LEFT JOIN (SELECT user_name FROM user WHERE (select count(*) from revision where rev_user < 1330287367 947456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive a1 where a1.ar_user = user_id and a1.ar_timestamp = (select min(a2.ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = a1.ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = a1.ar_title and log_namespace = a1.ar_namespace)) > 0) AS q2 ON q1.user_name = q < 1330287368 757203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.user_name WHERE q2.user_name IS NULL; < 1330287370 873662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY HERE WE GO. < 1330287411 115428 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL: so concise and expressive. < 1330287430 929554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-----------+ < 1330287431 139218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| user_name | < 1330287431 326108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-----------+ < 1330287431 326274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| Beary605 | < 1330287431 326437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-----------+ < 1330287431 905056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 row in set (53.64 sec) < 1330287434 944636 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally mathematiques prevails. < 1330287450 828378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow < 1330287459 992118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the one user that registered to solely blank a single spam page < 1330287463 621126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we saved them < 1330287470 56866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, brilliant :) < 1330287532 882386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did anyone ever make a database where you just plug in propositional logic for the queries? < 1330287569 718780 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-239-143.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1330287580 5115 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-154-115.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330287590 879121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall Altavista had that < 1330287607 190647 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330287616 832338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, as in a servery database program thing? < 1330287617 253002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slightly wonders why elliott couldn't just use diff somehow
< 1330287629 495168 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, as in the search engine. < 1330287631 806565 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: This way was certainly more elegant. < 1330287643 477405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :diff would have required copying lots of lines into files < 1330287648 650409 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1330287665 796321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello! < 1330287680 62703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the persistence things might be slightly kinda-sorta like that, but not like that at all. (But you don't write SQL or relational algebra in all of them; they have different sorts of ways of getting results. Though mostly I think just starting with sets and filtering them down using predicates.) < 1330287692 477664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, I didn't say relational algebra. < 1330287699 283399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want bona-fide set theory. :( < 1330287806 201442 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random esolang idea: all control flow is done by altering the metric of the instruction space. < 1330287816 617868 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: DO YOU KNOW WHAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH < 1330287820 746081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND ALL YOU CAN TALK ABOUT IS ESOLANGS < 1330287825 218339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cries
< 1330287828 474817 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instructions are continuous, and data storage is also done with metric distortions. < 1330287837 949768 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a metric distortion? If so: do tell. < 1330287895 789608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: SPAM < 1330287897 207669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM EVERYWHERE < 1330287900 248391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM IN THE KITCHEN < 1330287901 847336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM IN THE BED < 1330287903 440962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM IN MY HEAD < 1330287925 907966 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it get in through a metric distortion < 1330287928 685286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1330287934 189167 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1330287992 447533 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's kitchen and bed and head are all measured in decimetres < 1330288004 338138 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they were in imperial, everything would be better < 1330288024 800383 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, they're based on the old decimetre, that is, the rod of metal in Paris < 1330288041 989850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You know, a nice additional condition would be if it excluded users with talk pages... HINT HINT < 1330288052 216406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also backup to self: select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive a1 where a1.ar_user = user_id and a1.ar_timestamp != (select min(a2.ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = a1.ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%sp < 1330288052 420625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am%' and log_title = a1.ar_title and log_namespace = a1.ar_namespace)) > 0; < 1330288058 89954 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to the recent weather, that rod has distorted, bringing chaos to the old metric system < 1330288103 371684 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1330288104 611369 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god < 1330288106 552297 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if < 1330288130 977080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Previously, elliott's spam guards were just big enough. But as the parisian rod has shrunk, so has his guards, thus letting in the spam < 1330288141 973163 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do a little upwards flick from 2/3 of the line right before a 1 < 1330288145 505496 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks amazing < 1330288150 674661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we stop talking about my rod < 1330288150 861180 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What rod? < 1330288152 46583 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330288152 943102 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: what < 1330288156 509037 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The parisian rod < 1330288166 290855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Phantom_Hoover talking about how he writes numbers < 1330288168 793383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please somenoe say no < 1330288185 399089 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1330288189 355258 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net NICK :somenoe < 1330288190 742476 :somenoe!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1330288194 352395 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there scientific specification of how long a meter is? < 1330288195 513461 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1330288201 626400 :somenoe!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1330288205 200740 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in the old system < 1330288205 927006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: it's the kilogram that isn't "specified" < 1330288209 271137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays < 1330288212 291965 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1330288219 717934 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is almost as world-shattering as when I worked out how to write a )( x without lifting the pen < 1330288225 344671 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover < 1330288227 415201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry but < 1330288230 643122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're REALLY BORING < 1330288244 983542 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :without lifting the pen sounds like bending the paper < 1330288260 813069 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman, the metre is specified in terms of the distance light travels in . < 1330288277 232252 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1330288310 384513 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From 1889 to 1960, it was based on a rod in Pavillon de Bretuil < 1330288313 854973 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those definitions are in the law ;) < 1330288314 621513 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-169.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is near Paris < 1330288341 47617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If talk page titles equal user names, I suppose that's just an additional "... and not exists (select 1 from pagesorwhatever where title = user_name and namespace = talkytalky)" at the very end of the query, as an additional filter. < 1330288390 616061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive a1 where a1.ar_user = user_id and a1.ar_timestamp != (select min(a2.ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = a1.ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_t < 1330288390 802890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :itle = a1.ar_title and log_namespace = a1.ar_namespace)) > 0 and not exists (select * from page where page_namespace = 2 and page_title = user_name); < 1330288395 100779 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, the worst query. < 1330288412 147107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any users which don't exist will have to deal with this manually. < 1330288430 416580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1330288432 538135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now its only 130 < 1330288445 949829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what.... HAPPENED < 1330288447 783449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe < 1330288449 384958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :page never expires < 1330288460 508405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed. < 1330288461 290664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sad. < 1330288468 815270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you should get Phantom_Hoover to rewrite your numbers. i hear he's quite amazing at it. < 1330288490 637999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well sucks for the < 1330288491 325752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :user page < 1330288492 94532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that your != min(...) thing too? < 1330288492 281500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spammers < 1330288493 811476 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also letters < 1330288500 806366 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, fuck < 1330288520 235679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive a1 where a1.ar_user = user_id and a1.ar_timestamp = (select min(a2.ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = a1.ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '%spam%' and log_title = a < 1330288520 436927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.ar_title and log_namespace = a1.ar_namespace)) > 0; < 1330288521 138728 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this is < 1330288522 414333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OFFICIAL < 1330288556 527345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now its 2860 < 1330288573 73009 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /x/SPAM /xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < 1330288573 435864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what if we just deleted everyone? < 1330288574 991406 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM < 1330288576 8071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be really simple < 1330288588 37661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: err, bad idea :) < 1330288640 435695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should not propose ideas like that when I'm (a) sleep-deprived and (b) have a MySQL console connected to the live database < 1330288665 443602 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatedly: good night < 1330288681 110501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good DROP TABLE night. < 1330288687 626824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops I accidentally deleted the universe < 1330288701 351563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok it was broken anyway < 1330288706 182426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll find some more easy spambot queries to build on top of that one and assemble them into one gigantic query < 1330288710 423249 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks weird when you put a verb after accidentally like that < 1330288735 972754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote oops I accidentally deleted the universe looks weird when you put a verb after accidentally like that < 1330288736 159420 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO# (\_ -> (undefined, undefined)) Whoops, i accidentally the universe with bottom. < 1330288739 289090 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :811) oops I accidentally deleted the universe looks weird when you put a verb after accidentally like that < 1330288751 706281 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Haha < 1330288755 335688 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330288768 963812 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked for a MediaWiki extension program to use my TeX format file in MediaWiki; I can try to look at the codes for for