< 1330300895 773002 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330301076 73826 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-212-42.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330303232 419454 :kallisti!~root@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330303237 20641 :kallisti!~root@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is the log that shows up at boot? < 1330303872 76718 :kallisti!~root@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wl isn't working...... < 1330304139 990233 :kallisti!~root@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1330304140 214342 :kallisti!~root@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1330304198 328203 :kallisti!~root@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1330304361 98424 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE899B4.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330304884 5308 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-047-024.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1330305251 389325 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1330305735 320315 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-055-126.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330305817 497741 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330306576 882136 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1330307437 485158 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330307438 736596 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....so < 1330307442 721152 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't there a laptop < 1330307451 269301 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a touchpad keyboard? < 1330307453 613749 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that < 1330307470 739265 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OS can provide an arbitrary virtual interface? < 1330307492 897639 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like a giant Nintendo DS. < 1330307498 470177 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cost? < 1330307506 478611 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS support being shaky? < 1330307516 306469 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be a second screen, but. < 1330307516 600879 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it's not practical yet. < 1330307520 820310 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd need to be treated way differently < 1330307523 513588 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but damn it would be cool. < 1330307526 7326 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you wanna use it on Linux? < 1330307530 39795 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hope GNOME supports it < 1330307531 48946 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go buy a goddamn iPad. < 1330307531 235622 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1330307536 169343 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ipad is different < 1330307542 369427 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, lack of tactile sensation. < 1330307545 913204 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd want a touchscreen, and touchscreen keyboard. NEEDS TWO PARTS < 1330307549 144016 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would make it harder to use, esp for touch typers. < 1330307564 382472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :buy _two_ ipads. < 1330307570 405905 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, when I switch over to insert-IDE it throws me a keyboard customized for the programming language. < 1330307576 595006 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any relevant unicode symbols. < 1330307587 3855 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Acer made a cheap gimmick exactly like that < 1330307588 661164 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti, that sounds... < 1330307592 924176 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda hard to use. < 1330307601 413409 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remebering a new layout because you switched programs? < 1330307610 885183 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lack of tactile sentation, again, doesn't help. < 1330307618 831911 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true. < 1330307635 979212 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google acer iconia < 1330307636 863387 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, many people won't be hurt-- they hunt and peck anyways. < 1330307639 400382 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :get on that, rearchers < 1330307639 800698 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.acer.com/iconia/ < 1330307639 988602 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Acer AspireOne Happyt < 1330307643 472541 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, people already familiar with computers? < 1330307644 301932 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :touchscreen interfaces with tactile sensation. < 1330307644 488669 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh < 1330307721 111205 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be a step in the right direction. with a single touchscreen it's difficult to cram both control and display elements into the same space. < 1330307751 234434 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with two you would have a display screen with some control elements like an ipad or whatever, and then a lower screen specifically for control. or however else you'd want to set it up. < 1330307751 989589 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The emulator people would appreciate it) < 1330307810 454439 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I want the ASCII era of concrete syntax to go away. < 1330307853 569016 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where things like, say, improved record semantics, gets bogged down by a sudden lack of conveniently placed keys on a standard keyboard. < 1330307906 181534 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That needs to become standard first. < 1330307924 378711 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, you make it very troublesome for people who have standard keyboards, can't afford touchpad ones, or just prefer standard ones. < 1330307931 406695 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all. < 1330307932 390122 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, that's a given. < 1330307942 708086 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :A touchpad keyboard would need pressure detection or something. < 1330307948 23155 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or else, you can't rest your fingers on it. < 1330307954 320432 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, lots of things of that nature. < 1330307957 853633 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the warranty on a touchpad keyboard < 1330307961 970518 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten months? < 1330307983 411673 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the screen should just zap you whenever you're on top of a key < 1330307985 475122 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to let you know it's there. < 1330307987 690747 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you a feel for it. < 1330308002 406558 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer physical keyboard with ASCII and that stuff. I like the original IBM PC keyboard with the function keys on the left. The only problem with that one is no indicator LEDs. < 1330308013 787001 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this iconia an actual thing you can buy < 1330308014 231076 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you wanted to limit it to JUST keyboard-style stuff < 1330308027 610419 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in theory could ever buy < 1330308032 839556 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a fixed grid of raised buttons, but with some sort of display mechanism to change the keys? I don't even know. < 1330308046 130472 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/ < 1330308090 371099 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only $2,068 < 1330308104 732094 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :48x48 pixel color OLED screen under every key < 1330308117 60704 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you don't need to display on every key. That would waste energy and program size a lot it seems. < 1330308134 916641 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, clear keys above a single commodity display makes a lot more sense < 1330308157 591216 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, why are we looking at the keyboard? < 1330308169 396779 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs keycaps, anyways? < 1330308178 31103 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I suppose you are correct about that. But still I don't think you need a display for all keys even if it is the same one < 1330308185 351792 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i don't either < 1330308206 372526 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need HOLOGRAPHIC KEYCAPS < 1330308241 243375 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess some people like the no-label keyboards because it forces them to learn to touch type < 1330308273 961336 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mostly seems like a stupid way to show off < 1330308291 771099 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the copy on the Das Keyboard website certainly gives that impression < 1330308311 356864 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard the Das Keyboards are actually rather high-quality keyboards, though... < 1330308320 667422 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1330308320 913995 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, even disregarding caps/not-caps, might be worth getting. < 1330308321 100441 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330308327 154161 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a version with labels < 1330308346 347902 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also heard when they started out they were shitty dome keyboards, which is... Stupid. < 1330308364 384987 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$100 premium for no key labels? Screw that. < 1330308369 17243 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the one without labels might also be useful in case you need to attach your own labels to all of the keys for any reason < 1330308393 766447 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :$100 to show everyone that you're a L33T H5X0R? < 1330308397 250559 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a bargain < 1330308411 676916 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More efficient uses of that $100, though. < 1330308418 110862 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although even if there is labels, you can still put other labels on top, but they would need to be opaque. Without labels already on there, you can also use transparent labels, or just direct marking on the keys < 1330308419 785120 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They sell a set of four differently-coloured keys for you to replace the WASD cluster < 1330308432 967394 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suggests a cheap monitor which always has that Matrix-effect screensaver going)
< 1330308450 675442 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: What, cause WASD is hard to find? < 1330308474 111676 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, the keycaps are blank! < 1330308490 124435 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you even need to find WASD that easily; the F and J are the keys you should find easily they will have raised dots to find them easily. < 1330308493 786548 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And F/J still have the indent to make them easy to find. < 1330308527 905764 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: PC games use WASD as directional keys. < 1330308539 335781 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the strange thing is that they use clicking Cherry switches, so gamers wouldn't buy them anyway. I don't know whether Das has any idea what kind of niche market it wants to sell to. < 1330308546 36584 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It depend on the game. Some use arrow keys. < 1330308559 551463 :amca!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-128.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1330308563 366667 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not if you want to mouse and use any other keys. :) < 1330308592 720791 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they want to sell to office workers whose coping strategy is to pretend they are leet ninja rockstars < 1330308608 225241 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that could be a significant market. < 1330308611 766479 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and people who just want a keyboard with serious tactile response < 1330308621 146610 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a few others in that category < 1330308623 337549 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: How do Cherry switches compare with e.g. a Model M? < 1330308626 211672 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written many games for the PC, and none of them use WASD for directional keys; usually the arrow keys are used although sometimes the number pad and/or HJKL also work. < 1330308649 99890 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's basically the expected input scheme for first-person games, though. < 1330308673 197409 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The clicking ones are meant to evoke the Model M, but they are not buckling-spring switches, so they don't have anywhere near the durability and tactile response < 1330308702 395917 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I don't play or make first-person games; I suppose you might want to find WASD in case of first-person games possibly; but maybe you can use a joystick too? < 1330308727 255078 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicomp makes keyboards similar to the Model M < 1330308729 971630 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buckling-spring switches create the sound, tactile feedback and electrical signal with the same spring, so they never register incorrectly < 1330308735 891512 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some with a pointing stick too < 1330308751 521409 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone make keyboard similar to the original IBM PC keyboard with function keys on the left? < 1330308754 882142 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Unicomp took over the IBM keyboard division < 1330308769 887665 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're rebranded Model M < 1330308780 602823 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder which switch technology is used in the Kinesis Advantage < 1330308792 192215 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty loud and has decent feedback < 1330308812 322180 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they use Cherry switches, you can be sure this fact will be advertised somewhere < 1330308822 63533 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The switches seem to be a new status symbol thingy < 1330308917 996532 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think Kinesis has quite caught on to the hacker rockstar ninja aesthetic < 1330308929 481830 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their keyboards and website look like they were designed in the mid-90's < 1330308947 225705 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the keyboards are expensive as hell, for probably no good reason < 1330308961 74718 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Labor. < 1330308967 390146 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're hand-made. < 1330308982 656698 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, define "hand-made" < 1330308989 997034 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not whittled by hand from old-growth plastic trees < 1330309004 327179 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have also seen hacker keyboards, which are very good for UNIX; but lack a number pad or any way to send those codes. (I think they should make the keyboard with one key that allows you to send any code you enter) < 1330309018 935627 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much does a kinesis factory worker make? < 1330309059 715171 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What, the Happy Hacking? Those things are... Meh. < 1330309113 910928 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has "hacking" in the name < 1330309155 875007 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're more-or-less laptop-layout boards. < 1330309160 642607 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With dome switches. < 1330309166 373887 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use my happy hacking keyboard to comment on hacker news about the hacker lifestyle < 1330309169 558603 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For too-much. < 1330309208 625854 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also have a standalone version of the thinkpad keyboard with trackpoint < 1330309210 313304 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty good < 1330309227 360379 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if the classic thinkpad keyboard will still exist in 5 years < 1330309265 790388 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the 5 current models listed as "ThinkPad X series" on Lenovo's website, four have chiclet keyboards < 1330309269 90134 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the classic thinkpad still exist now? < 1330309283 581197 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so, yes < 1330309290 744662 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the "ThinkPad" brand name doesn't mean anything < 1330309303 73824 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just means lenovo wants to sell that model of laptop / netbook / android tablet to businesses < 1330309348 513009 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, if the branding is meaningless then maybe the IdeaPads are worth looking at < 1330309395 825985 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Chiclet keyboards? < 1330309397 73128 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yipe! < 1330309466 358306 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm also not sure the legendary ThinkPad quality isn't just nerd hipsterism < 1330309467 799611 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why you not like chiclets? < 1330309479 424963 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 6 years of owning thinkpads I've had a lot of shit break < 1330309494 302786 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few bad interactions with the repair people, as well as some good ones < 1330309498 87036 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Chiclet keyboards are about as shitty as you can get without resorting to a membrane keyboard. < 1330309524 998110 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't those independent properties < 1330309534 73757 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how so < 1330309553 75482 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think today "chiclet" just means there are gaps between the keys < 1330309576 950974 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No, "chiclet" refers to a particular keyboard switch type... < 1330309580 320570 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not meant to imply the terrible switch technology of the ZX Spectrum < 1330309628 818361 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like on remote controls, calculators, and the ZX Spectrum. < 1330309662 639855 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 6 years? That's all after Lenovo bought the brand. :) < 1330309671 561516 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hipster < 1330309694 729005 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I could judge the quality before that, as I never owned an IBM ThinkPad. < 1330309739 398777 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one I owned was the X41 < 1330309748 810619 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was IBM branded and designed by IBM < 1330309757 485708 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if Lenovo owned the company by that point < 1330309768 965142 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the repair centers are *still* IBM < 1330309791 639806 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to open a ticket you fill out a form on an IBM website that was clearly derived from a 50 year old mainframe app < 1330309822 124330 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm trying to manually configure my wlan interface now. < 1330309831 409708 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it hangs on DHCPDISCOVER < 1330309840 744338 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Probably still is a 50 year old mainframe app. < 1330309847 117668 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 8 < 1330309847 383984 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 7 < 1330309847 570966 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 11 < 1330309847 571156 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 11 < 1330309847 571261 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 12 < 1330309849 59694 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330309849 609953 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 12 < 1330309852 179611 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No DHCPOFFERS received. < 1330309854 665004 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No working leases in persistent database - sleeping. < 1330309897 119850 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :..what the hell is going on. < 1330309899 218956 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's the same form you use to request repairs on your $50,000,000 zSeries mainframe installation < 1330309922 448278 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you can't afford the 40U rackmount on-call service technician < 1330309994 575469 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclet_keyboard "The term has also been used more recently to describe several popular low-profile, low-travel keyboards. These keyboards have small, flat, squarish keys that are separated from each other by some space on the baseplate they protrude from - a feature common to the old chiclet keyboards. They are not chiclets in the earlier sense, however, as they do not use a rubber membrane or directly moulde < 1330309994 791044 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :d hard key tops as the keys themselves and instead use a more modern technology." < 1330310009 109131 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see this usage a lot in current reporting on new models of laptop etc < 1330310044 605592 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i search for the term i get a lot of that < 1330310050 571493 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i thought that is what you meant < 1330310181 116838 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is what i meant < 1330310323 512361 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the thinkpad power adapters frequently break at the plug that goes into the computer < 1330310335 563495 :kallisti!~adam@h47.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1330310355 117689 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was true in the IBM days, and with the first Lenovo models, and they've recently taken steps to fix it < 1330310651 637246 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Confusing. The original sense of chiclet keyboards are still around. < 1330310742 326291 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1330310789 264020 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple and thinkpad laptops are pretty similar < 1330310796 55169 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both have pretty good build quality < 1330310803 755843 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both have a dedicated fanbase who will ignore flaws < 1330310844 554700 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both appeal to a specific aesthetic < 1330310856 717329 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll admit that part of my reason for buying thinkpads is aesthetics and peer pressure < 1330310860 606552 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :chiclet keyboard is worst keyboard < 1330310872 518630 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much in the way of choice with laptops these days though < 1330310900 31542 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what specifically don't you like about chiclet keyboards (in the new sense) < 1330310931 974538 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :key travel, key shape, key spacing, key switches < 1330310934 882774 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1330310945 75459 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to other laptop keyboards? < 1330310952 634685 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to any keyboards < 1330310959 429374 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realize that travel is low on all laptops these days < 1330310966 504587 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even so i prefer the tapered keys < 1330310971 763138 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like them. they are slim, cheap, easily replaced, and the switches never cause me trouble < 1330310976 602312 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fingers have a tendency to 'hang up' on the edge of the key caps < 1330310981 658759 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like low travel < 1330310987 319171 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even disregarding that, they just don't feel very good < 1330310997 240734 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for switches, it's not that they are necessarily troublesome < 1330311008 899387 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that i have very picky taste in keyswitches these days :P < 1330311010 681040 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the thinkpad chiclet keys are still tapered a bit < 1330311022 447116 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ain't finding a laptop with topres though so *shrug* < 1330311025 238082 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't know what keyswitch they use < 1330311037 705951 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :laptops are generally scissor switches < 1330311039 1231 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not clear why a chiclet layout would require them to change that < 1330311049 39736 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330311054 405255 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot to list one other thing i dislike about them < 1330311058 520694 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :faddiness < 1330311087 301219 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thinkpad keys i've seen have a keycap attached to a scissor, above a little plastic nipple thing which touches the circuit board < 1330311124 142429 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330311130 346950 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that's normal for scissor switches < 1330311139 162390 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never pry at laptop keys, i don't want to break them < 1330311145 315967 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ATTENTION: Please note that this keyboard has black labeling on dark gray plastic keycaps. In low lit environments, this keyboard will appear to be blank! This keyboard is not available with higher contrast keycaps; for better visibility, please consider a white keyboard." < 1330311146 721704 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz < 1330311153 921567 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i haven't been under the keycaps much < 1330311163 337506 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :thatsracist.gif < 1330311172 178771 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, realforce? < 1330311176 618401 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it is pretty low contrast < 1330311182 187427 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks kind of sexy < 1330311182 388719 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of that < 1330311196 758997 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :appearance is really the only point < 1330311202 562751 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i prefer blank caps because i type multiple layouts < 1330311208 577594 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't really like typing on the wrong letters < 1330311223 362880 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer labeled keys because i type multiple layouts ;) < 1330311244 966004 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the labels don't do you any good if they don't represent the key you are pressing :P < 1330311247 15766 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Not helpful if you type multiple layouts on the same board. < 1330311261 665003 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm losing some of my qwerty skill, it's been a year since i had to type it daily < 1330311265 451149 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually type dvorak without looking at the keys < 1330311269 893925 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can still get over 80 wpm < 1330311272 756049 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes i have to type a password or something in qwerty, without echo < 1330311274 947140 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I don't, because fuck kana layouts. < 1330311279 386112 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be even with my dvorak speed though < 1330311283 350403 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the labels help < 1330311290 180394 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330311290 414389 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can still touch type qwerty but not with great accuracy < 1330311298 188360 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what you mean on that count < 1330311310 852670 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch typing is easy but single letters get hard after you're past that phase for awhile < 1330311316 619661 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330311322 941801 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i pretty much can't touch-type qwerty on the kinesis < 1330311327 666396 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've started pairing various letters in my head though < 1330311332 524320 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i've never done it regularly < 1330311332 874186 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i/c < 1330311333 664150 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :イエユイノボメノレンミリヨジュヨゴハサテカナエクタマエ < 1330311336 721624 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1330311338 110716 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :v/. < 1330311339 650369 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1330311341 749362 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1330311347 604748 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whats
< 1330311350 391100 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i'm using dvorak and i copy/paste things i actually think ctrl+i < 1330311352 148637 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1330311362 695323 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i do that, but only for some keys < 1330311384 623604 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hardest key is a :V < 1330311386 957202 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always get it mixed up < 1330311398 863187 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-234.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1330311399 267143 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-234.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1330311399 453744 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1330311425 134148 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, it remains in the same place. < 1330311441 129244 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::trollface: < 1330311498 943213 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1330311642 579849 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1330311701 964998 :Friendship!codu@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1330311712 735634 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrrrrrrrrgh < 1330311712 922024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1330311718 769655 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1330311718 956400 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 3d 8h 34m 4s ago: "ℒ was originally described to generalize the question raised by Befunge/index.php." not quite true < 1330311724 782433 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accidentally denicked. < 1330311728 793088 :Gregor!codu@codu.org NICK :Friendship < 1330311734 802628 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never saw that. < 1330311743 482401 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, we're friends again <3 < 1330311758 801248 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am friends with all! I am the abstract concept of friendship! < 1330311816 555917 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, I got an email from somebody who apparently runs the blog championofbirds.com . < 1330311827 962276 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :He says he wants to interview me for his blog because he found my hats site or something? < 1330311834 613138 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In short, "Guh?" < 1330311876 261505 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1330311880 368537 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is ... interesting < 1330311887 669817 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ask him what kind of hats birds like? < 1330312376 536874 :amca!~amca@CPE-121-208-82-128.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au QUIT :Quit: Farewell < 1330312475 105834 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: I haven't responded, it was an email. < 1330312478 267900 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too busy being baffled. < 1330312487 5369 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does one accept this kind of invitation? < 1330312489 13253 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so weird. < 1330312532 865803 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a perfect opportunity for trolling < 1330312537 757003 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a site about hats? < 1330312544 120557 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Respond by telephone. < 1330312547 732767 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :codu.org/hats < 1330312550 374999 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could be just spamming you < 1330312558 450236 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use a payphone. < 1330312570 740602 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myndzi: To what end? < 1330312584 596027 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha nice < 1330312591 315966 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: lulz, obviously < 1330312620 65773 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i honestly have no idea what he wants to interview you about though so i don't have any particular ideas heh < 1330312633 717387 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the kind of thing a pal of mine from dalnet used to turn into comedy gold all the time < 1330312640 468775 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in his case it was over irc < 1330312684 847952 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sacring the police , that lobster would snap is claw aroung , KLAP !!! KLAP !!! 5,1V..V < 1330312691 913816 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's one gem from such a conversation, hehe < 1330312703 223735 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that since he found me via my web site, my real name is known and hence my reputation is risked. < 1330312707 197696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sacre rouge < 1330312714 464517 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1330312733 788378 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if some guy i didn't even know wanted to interview me i wouldn't be terribly worried if he was like omg i tried to interview myndzi but he trolled me! < 1330312736 231240 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1330312739 600170 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand i understand < 1330312748 338428 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may as well do it, could be interesting < 1330312754 165751 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it sucks you can always switch to trolling midway :> < 1330312755 181823 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I loon it up and then that becomes the top search result for "gregor richards", yikes. < 1330312763 328622 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1330312778 453099 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then people will think you have a sense of humor? < 1330312778 677613 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1330312788 247254 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur mather is SNACK LORD! < 1330312805 983260 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll just send him back this: http://codu.org/hats/NewTopHat-med.jpg < 1330312809 599713 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say "That's my whole interview." < 1330312813 581233 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That's the answer to every question." < 1330312852 37709 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot about snack lord, that's one of my favorites < 1330313013 337594 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my idea of new programming language I have written part of specification already. There are similarity to Haskell. But, some of my ideas are: One type of kind # might be (unsafe "i8"). And all monomorphic types of kind ? (even if they have polymorphic components) are automatically instances of (\x -> Prelude.typeOf :: x -> Prelude.Type) although it is not implied so you need to mention it explicitly if you use it. < 1330313044 804398 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The other thing, various things are put into the prelude which isn't what Haskell does) < 1330313089 734574 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, if this seem at all sensible to you or not. < 1330313308 726833 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, looka that, he's actually one of five people who runs that site >_> <_< < 1330313322 928296 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That lends it 1/5th more credence. < 1330313565 176201 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what reputation, gregor. what reputation. < 1330313595 570535 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... :( < 1330313620 45585 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is your first chance to MAKE A REPUTATION < 1330313626 103064 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made quite a name for myself in certain circles which produce content not eligible for minors or distributable in most countries. < 1330313626 776499 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also to get more hats votes < 1330313696 613264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see you wouldn't want to tarnish that, then < 1330313795 141745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... < 1330313806 960097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly realizes he doesn't know where those hats have been
< 1330313819 827096 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, hat fetish! < 1330313979 608929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can leave your hat on < 1330314347 755538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1330315631 466588 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1330316010 931471 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...anyone? UPDATE < 1330316023 737204 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1330316030 842378 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi sgeo < 1330316042 433555 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, update < 1330316049 182659 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1330316051 43413 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I done < 1330316056 705693 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just saying hello ;_; < 1330316072 977650 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1330316078 470769 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1330316410 885924 :PiRSquared17!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :Insert_non-forma < 1330316530 2517 :Friendship!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :It Is The Absolute Verifiable Truth & Proven Fact That Your Belly-Button Signature Ties To Viviparous Mama. | 4 corner harmonic 24 hour time cube | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers! < 1330316752 835343 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Little Stallman: Foot Dirt is Magic < 1330317098 654426 :Insert_non-forma!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared < 1330317273 901621 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-156-154.as43234.net QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1330317422 184986 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-156-154.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330319810 483480 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330320168 335696 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330320244 132562 :PiRSquared!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquaredBai < 1330320982 617071 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foot dirt may lead to open sores. < 1330321673 374308 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-156-154.as43234.net QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1330322083 732379 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330322107 79676 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330326361 919114 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-055-126.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1330326412 817721 :cheater!~cheater@dslb-084-057-055-126.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330327164 296644 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-110.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330327169 942180 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-84.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1330327676 236760 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330327851 13856 :TeruFSX!~quassel@63-226-178-185.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330328358 54583 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: open source and foot dirt? reminds me of richard stallman < 1330328663 433694 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-236-164.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330328665 867519 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-210-110.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1330329265 702606 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-147-181.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330333286 362795 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Quit: MAYBE DO NOT COME FROM CHOICE < 1330336373 323759 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. My javascript interpreter/debugger is finished. < 1330336386 657974 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can pause the program at any point and inspect memory at will. < 1330337711 47419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1330340490 860381 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330343174 119080 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CA16.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330343721 795545 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1330345610 741071 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would brainfuck be turing complete if we'd have to know at compile time for each loop in which memory cell we currently are? < 1330345717 55012 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330345776 6801 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In beam I have the problem that I only figured a way out how to write loops which don't bother if the beam is even or odd by using the beam != store instructions which requires me to know at time of writing the program < 1330345780 541699 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the current cell address is. < 1330345835 659910 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other loops would require to know whether the cell's value is even or odd < 1330345850 878403 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can decide even/odd at runtime somehow. < 1330345880 238615 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that'd be tediously complex :( < 1330345910 974404 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330346091 318042 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CA16.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330346708 148303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: I think no, because it couldn't access infinite memory < 1330346738 147824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use only even numbers? < 1330346747 890700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF is still complete if + and - add and subtract 2 rather than 1 < 1330346761 747214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of Beam, is the comparison in u/n modulo 256 or not? I.e. if the store is >= 256, is it always false? < 1330346763 372293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still TC, that is < 1330346845 469793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: With unbounded tape cells, I wouldn't bet on that. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if the TC three-cell brainfuck construction always knew in which cell it is. < 1330346879 220817 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes. < 1330346892 618698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, I was thinking about the usual mod-256 version < 1330346908 880203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bignum BF I somehow have mentally filed as a different language < 1330346909 490711 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1330346912 431037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame it on too much BF Joust < 1330346914 87285 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if store >= 256 < 1330346921 177894 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then beam != store is always true < 1330346940 703101 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1330346944 251112 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can switch them. < 1330346968 341345 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switch what? < 1330346971 622437 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow. < 1330346988 464359 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a beam = (store % 256); instruction < 1330346993 17864 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a store = beam; instruction < 1330347030 237471 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a temporary location to not lose the beam, though. < 1330347067 854164 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :More imporantly, a temporary location not to lose the store, and there's no other unboundedly large place, I suppose. < 1330347129 790672 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't save the store. < 1330347135 336662 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory cells are limited to 8bit < 1330347143 890490 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know. < 1330347187 183598 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which means we can only save (store % 256)) < 1330347187 815399 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1330347197 6356 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to spread store >= 256 to different memory cells somehow. < 1330347251 900934 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah. < 1330347262 547132 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically it's limited to 256 memory cells which are easily accessible. < 1330347743 846456 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using only 0 and 1 should be possible < 1330347756 378620 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should also be possible to encode data in the control flow < 1330348075 84310 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1330348081 854318 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :v-- < < 1330348082 704266 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+'n:>>>>^ >:>>>+: < 1330348085 471666 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1330348105 869356 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/HQoJOyhh <- which produces 101 < 1330348136 285129 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a rather non-optimal but I-think-correct translation from brainfuck to Beam here. < 1330348163 743553 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1330348165 17902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has an unbounded tape of 8-bit values. < 1330348165 551448 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool < 1330348193 768635 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like this: http://sprunge.us/UORC < 1330348343 599978 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 'XXX' at ^6 can be just an unconditional jump back to [ for easiness. < 1330348352 94361 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`(`) are you sure? < 1330348360 475890 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: (`): not found < 1330348368 483189 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@decrements to zero < 1330348368 669526 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1330348394 817500 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`(`) with an initial store value of 1 < 1330348395 605954 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie < 1330348397 540480 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: (`): not found < 1330348400 103075 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :'`(`) < 1330348417 660725 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it decrements to zero < 1330348424 652378 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but control flow is redirected to left. < 1330348443 541266 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'`(`) prints 00 < 1330348461 236070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: Initial store value is always even when that is hit. < 1330348461 476556 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::`(`) prints 0 < 1330348476 301219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: It's one of 2, 4, 6, ... always. < 1330348479 338035 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1330348502 993276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it's at the marker cell of 3, 5, 7, ...) < 1330348718 874498 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll see about writing a program that performs that transformation, and try it on some loopy brainfuck code, but maybe not while I'm technically supposed to do work-stuff. < 1330348946 870976 :PiRSquaredBai!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquaredHai < 1330349353 451085 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1330351440 21429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does http://sprunge.us/COCL => http://sprunge.us/VOdH correctly; code at http://sprunge.us/SePY < 1330351953 20137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330353052 833093 :chickenz!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :mRoman: what happens, in beam, when the control flow reaches a border ? The program exits ? < 1330353072 668260 :chickenz!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm writing a little interpreter in python for the fun) < 1330353255 811744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/bf2beam.pl with a bit more formatting and the construction "documented"; I also pointed a link to that from the Wiki just for giggles, since it managed the hello world. < 1330353817 649307 :cswords__!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330354031 7375 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1330354425 36735 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-147-181.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1330354539 405268 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-125-130.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330355639 377718 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :chickenz: Yes. < 1330355671 61064 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to pay attention to spaces < 1330355688 833922 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if . is a space) < 1330355705 352746 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :v: < 1330355706 273827 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1330355708 419364 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>^ < 1330355714 224957 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also terminat.s < 1330355718 995785 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*terminates < 1330355725 393163 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the second line is only 1 character long. < 1330355739 468055 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to place a nop there < 1330355740 564331 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1330355741 763084 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :v: < 1330355742 825578 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1330355744 73594 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>^ < 1330355749 67951 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(. are spaces) < 1330355911 147792 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the brainfuck program should print Hello, hello, world. < 1330355915 156646 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it works \o/ < 1330355916 253111 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69               | < 1330355916 440239 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :69              /< < 1330355918 766378 :chickenz!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, my interpreter already works like that < 1330355920 576766 :chickenz!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1330356091 115165 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I !bf_txtgen'd it. (Though the Perl script strips doesn't add enough spaces at the end of lines like that, will have to fix it. (Doesn't matter in the example, but would probably break nested loops. (Though those might be already broken. (I was sort-of assuming it'd be all Befungey and fill the universe with spaces.)))) < 1330356109 383694 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Aways a while.) < 1330356223 515916 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1330356234 85957 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems your perl script generates not enough spaces sometimes. < 1330356361 846514 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ui. < 1330356385 484091 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/ZfxIyvc9 < 1330356391 574015 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats the output translation of < 1330356405 982692 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++>++>+>+<[>[-<++++>]<<]> < 1330356422 337280 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It get's stuck in '>'p? < 1330356450 35337 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I said. < 1330356472 976870 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed the spaces. < 1330356569 169060 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beam := 0 < 1330356582 218688 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it enters '>'p? < 1330356593 659825 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then increments store all the time < 1330356642 14056 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :until it exceeds the 1024 memory cells in the javascript implementation. < 1330356765 950571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm. It's supposed to hit the flagged cell that was left by the `p+P' bit. < 1330356847 570813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a look when not in a bus with a silly phone. < 1330356858 370144 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should search a zero cell, right? < 1330356913 351544 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1330356915 862863 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a non-zero < 1330356932 113741 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :? only lets you pass with beam != 0 < 1330356980 471346 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the point. All the even cells it tests should be 0, except the one that was +'d before the (`). < 1330357001 334238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :After hitting that one it should go through the ?. < 1330357053 167888 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my bus stop is like right now. -> < 1330357065 546101 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the mean time, I'll implement break points :D < 1330357604 553052 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1330357618 879753 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. I have a breakpoint at (y,x) = (1,39) < 1330357623 226578 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the v < 1330357633 285284 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point Beam := 0 and Store := 0 < 1330357644 955716 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Memory[0] = 1; Memory[1] = 0; < 1330357691 27364 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at breakpoint (y,x) = (4,42) < 1330357698 309942 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is the > in '>'p?) < 1330357713 986935 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beam := 0 Store := 1 Memory[0] := 1 Memory[1] := 0 < 1330357740 788579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory[0] being nonzero is just plain wrong. I suppose it has messeded up. < 1330357805 164761 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu < 1330357806 208548 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf. < 1330357884 15642 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic. < 1330357959 760686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, if it walks past the left edge of the tape in the brainfuck code, all bets are off. < 1330357998 807907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the unbalanced [>[-<++++>]<<] will, presumably. < 1330358059 461076 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330358092 192442 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok. < 1330358094 63053 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330358101 733536 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't thought of that < 1330358108 9404 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1330358192 677490 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330358237 947328 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1330358249 866576 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++[>+++++[>+++++<-]<-]>>- works < 1330358255 575623 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(non-wrapping bfconstant 99) < 1330358515 419901 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330358954 56890 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nested loops work if they are balanced < 1330359002 639424 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least those I tested from the brainfuck constants. < 1330359190 921121 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the truth-machine translated from brainfuck works :) < 1330359255 847912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There shouldn't be anything special about unbalanced loops either, as long as they don't try to go < past the left edge. < 1330359259 851587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show rev < 1330359260 38311 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[.<] < 1330359272 232308 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That, translated, with stdin "hello" produced "olleh" in the Javascript interp. < 1330359372 444374 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330359475 654282 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you very much for that translation script. < 1330359841 320100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added the missing spaces. (Now there's a bit more than exactly the necessary amount, but better safe than sorry.) < 1330359918 525690 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Dinnertime.) < 1330360295 668695 :mRoman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch NICK :mroman < 1330360298 32695 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sports time) < 1330361362 628509 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330361605 903914 :PiRSquaredHai!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 NICK :PiRSquared17 < 1330361630 418022 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1330362215 151943 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, /r/circlejerk is being closed < 1330362224 181934 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was so close to becoming the singularity < 1330362527 486990 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330362623 761286 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-234-114-13.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330362659 331127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1330362683 296116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is it with people and trying to prove TwoDucks is computable? < 1330362697 981488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are trying to prove TwoDucks computable? < 1330362708 770874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:TwoDucks a new comment posted just today < 1330362801 119257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, ESR's trying to interfere in politics < 1330362818 871223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when isn't he? < 1330362831 540005 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330362842 164000 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR...? < 1330362854 525901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eric S. Raymond < 1330362859 119227 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :El Stallman Richard? < 1330362859 855384 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1330362871 131970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't already know, you probably don't want to < 1330362879 446828 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem is, I'm not convinced this will end well even if he argues a point of view I agree with, which seems possible (although far from certain) < 1330362911 500212 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I know who he is < 1330362914 554230 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ish < 1330362922 484037 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The likelihood of you and esr agreeing on a political point is about 0 unless I've grossly misjudged your political stances. < 1330362926 547503 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've skimmed his wikipedia article at least once in the past < 1330362959 281084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, he's arguing something to do with regulation of the Internet < 1330362967 184316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a topic that I think there's a chance greater than 0 we agree on < 1330362974 305631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know his actual point of view on the issue, so I'm not sure < 1330362982 984014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fair enough then < 1330363087 49280 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like ESR's wrong on everything, he's just right on some things and then takes it too far. < 1330363093 457044 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waaaay too far. < 1330363108 967095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's a good description < 1330363168 276123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Gun-toting islamophobic libertarianism doesn't really start at being right. < 1330363178 536777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might accidentally cross into the realms of rightness by mistake once in a while. < 1330363208 517540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I think he's racist too. I lost track trying to forget his political posts. < 1330363239 357103 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330363347 410514 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll start saying that I use GNU/Windows, just to confuse people < 1330363390 91562 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, that isn't as funny as it seemed when it was on the inside of my head < 1330363395 590133 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to be wrong, of course. < 1330363487 837874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you mean GNU/NT < 1330363491 973867 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to put a kernel after the slash < 1330363502 859135 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yes < 1330363517 421415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you probably /don't/ do that, because I don't think NT can load GNU tools without several layers in between < 1330363538 104451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU/GNU, the better name for GNU/Hurd. < 1330363540 928853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like you can use bash as your init process, like you can in Linux (and occasionally have to, if your system gets borked) < 1330363543 175861 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, Hurd is the GNU kernel. < 1330363590 881217 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They like to just call it "GNU" y'know X-D < 1330363597 255713 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you should totally write a toolset thing and call it Elliott. < 1330363597 611652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, it's just called "GNU" < 1330363625 31940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? < 1330363626 242358 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU/GNU/GNU. < 1330363628 261597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian calls it GNU/Hurd < 1330363638 545214 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Debian isn't the "they" to whom I was referring. < 1330363640 914537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because Debain have to make sense < 1330363644 86218 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Debian < 1330363650 639777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to be taken seriously < 1330363661 635430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is serious distro < 1330363670 486001 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I'm pretty sure Debian agree with GNU on 90% of things. < 1330363671 655302 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frrlz < 1330363672 558349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost as serious as Red Hat < 1330363686 88431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right, but wow is the other 10% hotly argued < 1330363704 452415 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU hate them for having a non-free repo that's compatible with the distro, even though it technically isn't part of it < 1330363732 522409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still administrate and maintain it :P < 1330363774 699950 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, it took me more work than it ought to have to get rid of those shitty nouveau drivers and install NVidia's binary ones :) < 1330363808 596864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, crazy and stupid situation at work < 1330363825 422422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the project we set the GPU students can only be worked on from home if you happen to have a recentish NVidia GPU in your own computer < 1330363832 146293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you remote in < 1330363862 460367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, why? < 1330363887 652718 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every time I tarball, my Makefile becomes corrupt and I think this is why my program isn't working when I submit. What do?" // 99-to-1 this guy is typing tar zcf Makefile < 1330363915 86836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Not like tar has the most intuitive of user interfaces. < 1330363930 238714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably they're listing the tarfile last in analogy with mv, cp and so on < 1330363933 251607 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We give them the exact command to run :) < 1330363944 490082 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: You think people read that? < 1330363955 925582 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it makes a nice excuse to scream at them. < 1330364005 981066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually, many nontechnical users, if you give them an exact command to run, they'll just run it < 1330364008 309029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without understanding < 1330364023 782391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right, command-line interfaces could do with more standardisation < 1330364058 463588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the rule (which GNU invented IIRC but don't enforce consistently) that if you give a command a filename to write, not read, it must be prefixed with -o (or >, for a different reason) < 1330364088 32033 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tarfs -z lolmytarfile.tar mnt/ ; cp -a lolmyfiles mnt/ ; fusermount -u mnt/ < 1330364110 518380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/mockingbird.html < 1330364123 416845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what's RMS's current distro recommendation. It's been at least GNU/LinEx and UTUTO and one third one that all have been described as "the only one with no non-free software" at one point, but I'm not sure which was the recentest one and if it's still kosher. < 1330364134 12564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what did you expect to be in /mnt? < 1330364136 990539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Friendship: < 1330364143 954506 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I prefer alligators. < 1330364152 79341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: He uses a Lemote Yeeloong thing. < 1330364157 714134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's aaaaall free. < 1330364159 373494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie (actually fizzie this time): I think they mentioned Gobuntu at one point < 1330364162 164715 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably with whatever OS it comes with. < 1330364166 239592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm surprised RMS doesn't use LFS < 1330364174 610797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a good enough programmer to be able to maintain it < 1330364177 127588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Richard_Matthew_Stallman_working_on_his_Lemote_Machine.JPG < 1330364189 931108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I doubt he wants to < 1330364192 887711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't really like Linux < 1330364198 416896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, fair enough < 1330364216 990020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has no philosophical objection to using it, but doesn't want to contribute, or something < 1330364231 309495 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems to have a huge jaw in that photo. :-D < 1330364258 402079 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html < 1330364259 668314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that took a while to see < 1330364284 581565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I use a Lemote machine which has a free initialization program and a free operating system. One other advantage of this machine is that Windows has never supported it." < 1330364293 219640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows supporting a machine will make rms not want to use it? < 1330364304 599192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, he cheats: "I do not have a preferred GNU/Linux distro. I recommend all the ethical distros — namely, those that are 100% free software. < 1330364304 790758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've chosen not to have any preferences among those ethical distros. But I am not in a position to judge them on other criteria: even to try them all would be a lot work that I have no need to do." < 1330364321 856402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that said, gnu.org links "Download GNU" to http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html < 1330364322 46712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's surprisingly reasonable, actually < 1330364332 697054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can see the very short list they recommend < 1330364350 231659 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :their front-page screenshot http://www.gnu.org/distros/screenshot.html is from Trisquel, IIRC < 1330364366 627087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc the FSF sponder gNewSense < 1330364391 831714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...whose website runs MoinMoin < 1330364403 2675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever installed MoinMoin and not immediately regretted it? < 1330364408 915912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urban legend: If you take a video of RMS speaking, and re-encode that to a non-free format such as MPEG4, RMS will not appear in the video. (It's like vampires and mirrors.) < 1330364449 220133 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1330364454 607724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did you just invent that urban legend? < 1330364458 201022 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shhh < 1330364460 454135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not allowed to ask that < 1330364463 630035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I am < 1330364467 712793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he says yes, it won't spread < 1330364478 509191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if he says no, it won't spread either < 1330364480 475179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I... maybe. But it was inspired by the RMS-speaking info-package. < 1330364490 984392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When you start a Lisp system, it enters a read-eval-print loop. Most other languages have nothing comparable to read, nothing comparable to eval, and nothing comparable to print. What gaping deficiencies!" < 1330364492 770487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1330364493 660414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can they loop? < 1330364516 289031 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can they do the dashes. < 1330364519 66125 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when did most languages not have read or print? < 1330364522 282096 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-77-95.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: g2g < 1330364524 227371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: they don't < 1330364538 600674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many languages have a way to fully print out any object? < 1330364551 511390 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many languages have a way to read in any object? < 1330364556 630497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lisp is no harder to understand than other languages. So if you have never learned to program, and you want to start, start with Lisp. If you learn to edit with Emacs, you can learn Lisp by writing editing commands for Emacs. You can use the Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp to learn with: it is free as in freedom, and you can order printed copies from the FSF." < 1330364564 642696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, rms tells people to learn Emacs Lisp as a first language < 1330364567 271210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a danger to society < 1330364590 458624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I read a book about Java, and found it an elegant further development from C." < 1330364596 598417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Lisp necessarily let you read and print any object? < 1330364600 330942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I skimmed documentation of Python after people told me it was fundametally similar to Lisp. My conclusion is that that is not so. When you start Lisp, it does `read', `eval', and `print', all of which are missing in Python." < 1330364614 312069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, not sure; but read/print also operate with the same syntax as Lisp < 1330364619 463042 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the most important thing < 1330364620 682019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'd debate that if I hadn't come across a script that had the same purpose as a CGI script written in elisp < 1330364629 46524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please check with me before you allow a CD of GNU/Linux to be distributed at the event [where I'm speaking]." < 1330364630 455485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't actually a CGI script because it wouldn't run if connected to a webserver, though < 1330364633 984151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was run manually < 1330364656 186306 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, RMS has a twitter account < 1330364658 691402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he refuses to use it < 1330364667 22716 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why does he have one in the first place? < 1330364679 545115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to log into websites that use Twitter's OAuth thing < 1330364681 332752 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he can post comments < 1330364692 833999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I do not post on 4chan." THANKS, I WAS WONDERING < 1330364721 510413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's anonymous, you can't tell < 1330364739 323440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, some celebrities have rules so you can tell if it's them if they post elsewhere < 1330364745 88906 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard all messages on 4chan are posted by RMS. < 1330364754 85019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like PJ of Groklaw's rule that if she posts anywhere else, she'll report the fact on Groklaw so that people know it's her < 1330364759 793909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 4chan isn't necessarily anonymous, although I think /b/ is < 1330364769 105076 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to spread that urban legend < 1330364780 426530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm, I think they only have the easily-crackable tripcode format, so probably it effectively is < 1330364793 564437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you're doing god's work < 1330364802 770822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, which one < 1330364804 150107 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which one’s? < 1330364804 714652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion's or fizzie's < 1330364825 305645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie's is better < 1330364863 798981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: ? < 1330364892 826058 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330365008 838954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Our iPad petition < 1330365009 228894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feb 3rd update: For every 5,000 signatures we get, we will send this giant "1984" postcard to Steve Jobs." < 1330365083 649713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fizzie: hey, how are you meant to indent SQL? < 1330365108 616176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't meaningfully indent it unless you add far too many newlines < 1330365114 579609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give something /to/ indent < 1330365132 354026 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, SQL is indent hell. < 1330365146 241455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything is better than select user_name from user where (select count(*) from revision where rev_user = user_id) = 0 and (select count(*) from archive a1 where a1.ar_user = user_id and a1.ar_timestamp = (select min(a2.ar_timestamp) from archive a2 where a2.ar_title = a1.ar_title and a2.ar_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) and exists (select * from logging where log_action = 'delete' and (log_namespace = 0 or log_namespace = 2) and log_comment like '% < 1330365146 465462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam%' and log_title = a1.ar_title and log_namespace = a1.ar_namespace)) > 0; < 1330365232 172376 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you just indent it as you wish. But probably subqueries get one level, and sometimes the fixed bits like SELECT and FROM and such are in the first column. < 1330365253 808250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/MdbS < 1330365258 304077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, this is slightly better. < 1330365290 240748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DbD's Steve Jobs welcomes fans: http://i.imgur.com/nUtZK.jpg" Uh, that... doesn't look much like Jobs. < 1330365403 349380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sqlformat.appspot.com/ < 1330365406 324046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, I can just outsource the job. < 1330365455 185786 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that doesn’t look like Jobs. This does. http://youtu.be/aeXXwQrQiPE < 1330365519 847679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't suppose there's some "standard" way for making little subquery functions? < 1330365533 287554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could factor out these awful "page creation time" and "page was deleted" things. < 1330365566 616461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not, though there are things that are somewhat more or less kinda-sorta partially compatible with Oracle's PL/SQL. < 1330365567 980633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, I don't care how standard it is. < 1330365575 278131 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does MySQL have such a thing? < 1330365706 372689 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, is views not what you want? < 1330365709 100292 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I suppose plain SQL functions are a semi-standard thing. < 1330365723 131582 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course there are views. < 1330365742 102999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Excellent, tell me about views. fizzie: Tell me about SQL functions. < 1330365769 388769 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sql+views < 1330365811 139472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not telling! That's pointing. < 1330365880 535995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a view you can make a complicated query into a sort-of-a virtual table thing, so that you can run further selects and such on it. < 1330365890 310557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I don't think that's quite what I want though. < 1330365897 563870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The things I want to refactor are < 1330365898 758266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SELECT MIN(a2.ar_timestamp) < 1330365898 966760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : FROM archive a2 < 1330365899 156393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHERE a2.ar_title = a1.ar_title < 1330365899 343328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : AND a2.ar_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) < 1330365906 712125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :parametrised on (a1.ar_title, a1.ar_namespace), and < 1330365914 341210 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXISTS (SELECT 1 < 1330365914 528308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : FROM logging < 1330365914 528483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : WHERE log_action = 'delete' < 1330365914 528584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : AND (log_namespace = 0 OR log_namespace = 2) < 1330365914 528687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : AND log_comment LIKE '%spam%' < 1330365914 912312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : AND log_title = a1.ar_title < 1330365916 824363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : AND log_namespace = a1.ar_namespace) < 1330365926 496687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :parametrised on (a1.ar_title, a1.ar_namespace) again. < 1330365952 109708 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, views only let you factor out the constant bits. < 1330365975 243242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendship: Weeeell, I could make a deleted_for_spam table as a view, I think. < 1330365978 208080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would vastly simplify that part. < 1330365981 419116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a page_creation_times table. < 1330365988 488519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But just making a function out of those two would be nicer... < 1330366001 279746 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function is also something you can make, yes. < 1330366016 298494 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, functions I don't know about ^^ < 1330366116 344171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I do "CREATE FUNCTION", does that, like... store it? < 1330366120 555256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I only need it for this one thing. < 1330366140 656788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is saved. < 1330366165 116622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :These look quite "heavy". < 1330366169 804723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :CREATE FUNCTION creationtime(title , namespace ) RETURNS RETURN (SELECT MIN(ar_timestamp) FROM archive WHERE ar_title = title AND ar_namespace = namespace); could work. < 1330366182 627932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I delete one? < 1330366189 714352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :DROP FUNCTION, I'd guesstimate. < 1330366201 223135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, DROP FUNCTION. < 1330366213 49360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1330366245 451051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do I have to specify the size of the types? < 1330366249 254427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are temporary tables (persist for the connection, are automatically dropped then), but I'm not sure about temporary functions. < 1330366255 663297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lazy and don't want to look up how big the namespace int is :P < 1330366271 377065 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think conversions happen if they don't match exactly. < 1330366371 764814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL does have a compound statement thing which would let you do more complicated logic in a function, but for result-of-a-single-select I think just RETURN (query) should work. < 1330366385 289061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1330366390 26092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll consider doing that. < 1330366420 662889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :First things first though, time to negate the query and see what other patterns I can spot. < 1330366487 181542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -U, --i-am-a-dummy Synonym for option --safe-updates, -U. < 1330366502 54512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also INDENTATION http://sprunge.us/BEaN < 1330366542 363676 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, um... < 1330366545 390697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very indented, yes. < 1330366556 298300 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to argue that it's not indented. < 1330366563 775457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :" *" <-- best line. < 1330366575 289592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[elliott@dinky esowiki]$ ssh mysql esolang_wiki --html spammers.html < 1330366577 731098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It am feel like future. < 1330366582 350291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ssh solidity < 1330366598 519607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From dinky to solidity; that's progress. < 1330366652 599469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523, you have p7zip, right? < 1330366663 945866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"p7zip"? < 1330366668 247950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1330366676 744127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have some 7z-related program, but I think it's called something else < 1330366679 331598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 7zip. < 1330366680 632986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, do you have 7z(1), then? < 1330366682 565950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's p7zip < 1330366699 592568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"p7zip" has a 'p' for 'port'. < 1330366703 278388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have 7z and 7za < 1330366737 930590 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how worky is your email? < 1330366762 988896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yahoo! have a borked SSL cert for my usual method of accessing it < 1330366772 68297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can access it via the web interface, but it's somewhat obnoxious < 1330366788 371360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can see from my emails to Agora < 1330366798 595337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obnoxious on the recipients too) < 1330366851 183266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unobnoxious enough to download a single attachment? < 1330366865 4035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how physically large it is < 1330366874 685513 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's less than 20MB (possibly MiB), I should be able to manage it < 1330366886 389486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :<1meg < 1330366935 458519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @bham, right? < 1330366938 64225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or @yahoo? < 1330366967 424260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, @bham's working fine, but I'm increasingly trying to use it as a work email < 1330366975 302773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yahoo is probably better < 1330366975 489298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1330366988 34505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, sent message to @yahoo < 1330366996 523210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was fast < 1330367000 412266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a small file < 1330367002 185175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I received it before your "OK, sent" < 1330367004 494191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1330367019 894323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains a list of users (+ id, email, realname and edit count) that the spammer query does /not/ catch < 1330367025 453019 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still has some obvious spam users in them with some obvious patterns < 1330367032 123033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including, I think, some that follow the patterns you discovered < 1330367032 309890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Yahoo! went and scanned it with Norton < 1330367043 812984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the pattern I couldn't manage to pin down earlier < 1330367095 385664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"\d+ buy .*" is an obvious uncaught pattern < 1330367107 397575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err, make that "^\d+ buy"; I keep forgetting regexes need anchors) < 1330367139 333153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, indeed < 1330367151 36999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes this to /msg
< 1330367159 908212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for the /msg
< 1330367325 952302 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wand of messages. < 1330367392 586107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1330367409 44737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks that this conclusively establishes that there is /no/ channel I'm currently in that's potentially safe from NetHack references
< 1330367527 278672 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330367667 424401 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330367818 73833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010 $username $email $firstname $lastname 0 < 1330367821 501426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold, one of our actual users < 1330368049 83344 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204] < 1330368053 4583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if $username made any edits replacing the page with $page, with summary $summary < 1330368062 903838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the deleted history of $title :) < 1330368079 433394 :Frooxius!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1330368835 9117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Why's this query returning ~every user: < 1330368835 888561 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :select user_id, user_name, user_email, user_real_name, user_editcount < 1330368836 75377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from user u1 < 1330368836 75575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where exists (select 1 from user u2 where u2.user_id != u1.user_id and < 1330368836 75682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :left(replace(u2.user_email,'.',''),locate('@',replace(u2.user_email,'.',''))) = < 1330368837 835414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :left(replace(u1.user_email,'.',''),locate('@',replace(u1.user_email,'.',''))) < 1330368840 16696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :); < 1330369132 684717 :PiRSquared17!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330369135 243009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK the SQL debugging falls to you :P < 1330369168 432937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know SQL! < 1330369186 952178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you've checked what the subselect returns for some J. Random User? < 1330369206 356796 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You suppose wrong! < 1330369238 876948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does look like a reasonable "thing before the @, disregarding dots" comparison. < 1330369287 207805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could NULL out though. < 1330369293 368899 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is (NULL = x) true for some reason? < 1330369310 884386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I think it might be < 1330369326 961735 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is. In fact, I don't think null = null is true either. < 1330369339 522703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I knew it had some special behaviour with comparisons < 1330369349 228124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is this MySQL, which doesn't distinguish between NULL and ''? < 1330369370 475431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes < 1330369390 655717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> select left(replace('ab@c','.',''),locate('@',replace('ab@c','.',''))); < 1330369390 970261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ < 1330369391 157791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| left(replace('ab@c','.',''),locate('@',replace('ab@c','.',''))) | < 1330369391 158006 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ < 1330369391 158115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| ab@ | < 1330369391 705235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ < 1330369393 876346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks right to me :( < 1330369453 502034 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you working on a SQL-based esolang? < 1330369521 597538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, he's trying to delete all the spambots from Esolang's users tables < 1330369684 638836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Maybe it's going wrong because one person has an empty email or something? < 1330369756 376120 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, though purely going by logic I think it should work. If one person has an empty email, left(replace(u2.user_email,'.',''),locate('@',replace(u2.user_email,'.',''))) for that one person should just be '', in which case it shouldn't match the non-'' thing returned for u1.user_email. < 1330369793 534840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any empty emails? select count(*) from user where user_email = '' or user_email is null? < 1330369828 76279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, emails are optional < 1330369835 648251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether they end up empty or null, is that important? < 1330369851 600940 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of, though null is admittedly more special. < 1330369865 132124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I think that should at most lead it to report every emailless person. < 1330369875 263439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as there's >1 such.) < 1330369875 775669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-------------------------------------------------------------+ < 1330369876 104682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| left(replace(null,'.',''),locate('@',replace(null,'.',''))) | < 1330369876 300640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-------------------------------------------------------------+ < 1330369876 300836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| NULL | < 1330369876 300940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+-------------------------------------------------------------+ < 1330369893 113632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It reports a bunch of emailful and emailless users < 1330369898 323032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not every user however < 1330369903 798778 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a weird. < 1330369914 936247 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm < 1330369948 30997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks to be my error. < 1330369952 590974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are indeed two rune@* users. < 1330370339 991758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[::If the program halts, it'll print 0, then eventually erase that and print 1. If the program doesn't halt, it'll print 0 and loop forever. So at any given point before it replaces the 0 with a 1, you can't tell whether it's going to halt or not, and since nonhalting programs never halt, you'll never be able to say for sure whether that 1 will eventually show up. So this doesn't solve the halting problem.]] < 1330370344 202051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this person does not seem to understand twoducks at all < 1330370717 94733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's confusing time with metatime < 1330371857 406837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think that person is actually trying to apply the Feather time-travel model to TwoDucks < 1330371861 357335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't work < 1330372168 553386 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at least one person who knows the Feather time-travel model? < 1330372171 765429 :Sgeo!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in shock. < 1330372202 714829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it has a very simple time travel model (it's basically meta-timeline) < 1330372320 535959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Veoh is a Flash video site relying on user contributed content. IO Group argued that since Veoh transcoded user uploaded videos to Flash format it became a direct infringer and the materials were under their direct control, thereby disqualifying them for DMCA safe harbor protection." < 1330372337 512504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope they didn't /succeed/ < 1330372353 609011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully not < 1330372868 917601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1330372984 19335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, doesn't YouTube transcode too? < 1330373084 931380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1330373108 660909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1330373121 750402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi, herjan. < 1330373130 213827 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is as crazy as the "it made a copy in memory" thing that Blizzard made to stick when they were suing Glider < 1330373288 988983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copies in memory are quite a popular thing to include, I believe. < 1330373533 205598 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey fizzie, look what you have wrought: http://sprunge.us/JXgX < 1330374583 192063 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, erm, would you hate me if I asked more SQL questions? < 1330374695 441975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1330374709 600197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hi < 1330374710 818628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1330374793 791831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQLing is a bannable offense. < 1330374799 333077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that squealing < 1330374848 904460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is deleting spammers? < 1330374870 755771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. i guess in that case it counts as justified. < 1330374927 763712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what is the english term for a law not applying because of overriding emergency concerns?) < 1330374950 604925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not sure < 1330374953 418080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's "duress", but that's when something's legal because you did it with a gun to your head < 1330374958 148819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and someone else was pointing the gun) < 1330374983 559518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the english/americans don't _have_ such a thing, and that's why their laws are so insane. < 1330375005 953483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION logical
< 1330375018 652100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exceptional circumstances? < 1330375023 73871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apparently not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exceptional_circumstances < 1330375051 650492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe i should try to look up the norwegian term and see if there's an interwiki link < 1330375110 229093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"necessity", apparently < 1330375152 654794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Except for a few statutory exemptions and in some medical cases [1] there is no corresponding defense in English law." < 1330375167 517200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just the english that are insane, not the americans, check. < 1330375326 897083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks he may have insulted someone.
< 1330375332 229700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hmph. < 1330375439 148608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However case law suggests necessity is narrowed to medical cases." < 1330375451 779030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the US is maybe not that different anyway. < 1330375737 368240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, the first time cube quote above could be interpreted as true. < 1330375743 519332 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :'( < 1330375768 163435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*in the topic < 1330376057 327197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:05:11: I've heard the Das Keyboards are actually rather high-quality keyboards, though... < 1330376059 440713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They're terrible. < 1330376142 137890 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1330376146 836516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If you don't wake fizzie up, you'll have to answer my SQL questions. < 1330376178 323028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:10:11: that and people who just want a keyboard with serious tactile response < 1330376178 738492 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:10:21: there are a few others in that category < 1330376188 611367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: There are many others in that category, and they're all better than Das < 1330376209 310377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111ELEVEN < 1330376226 864602 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, are we talking about keyboards now? < 1330376233 561367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the threat might be more effective if i actually knew SQL. < 1330376255 275416 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330376267 608062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You'll have to learn it. < 1330376288 357873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:13:00: i wonder which switch technology is used in the Kinesis Advantage < 1330376289 9579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:13:12: it's pretty loud and has decent feedback < 1330376295 142463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Cherry Browns. < 1330376308 262838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like the Blues (as used, badly, in the Das) but without the explicit click and slightly lighter feedback. < 1330376329 110778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:17:39: zzo38: What, the Happy Hacking? Those things are... Meh. < 1330376333 780428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use Topre switches, though. < 1330376345 962707 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:19:15: They're more-or-less laptop-layout boards. < 1330376346 163370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:19:20: With dome switches. < 1330376347 7216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong. < 1330376368 929749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some of the Happy Hacking models use rubber dome, but they're not the ones everyone knows.) < 1330376495 969317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'll keep talking about keyboards if you don't answer my SQL questions :'9 < 1330376497 385859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*( < 1330376578 305340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _said_ i don't know SQL < 1330376610 194298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Exactly. < 1330376679 38463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can tune out linux administration talk, i can tune out keyboards. < 1330376731 137245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sorta away. < 1330376734 659216 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda-sorta. < 1330376765 199344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: EXCELLENT HELLO. < 1330376803 604797 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So, say I have a SELECT query. I also have a list of (table,column)s. Those columns contain references to user_ids. I want to update all those columns to set the user_id to 0, wherever they're equal to a user_id returned by that SELECT query. < 1330376830 454547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do "UPDATE table SET column = 0 WHERE column = (SELECT user_id FROM user WHERE )" but that'd duplicate the query across every (table,column) pair, and be really slow. < 1330376932 324494 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (If this somehow helps things, I would like to delete the user records in question at the end.) < 1330376945 933193 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I create a view on users or something? Would that cache the results? < 1330376948 336513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a temporary table? < 1330376958 230220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: With unbounded tape cells, I wouldn't bet on that. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if the TC three-cell brainfuck construction always knew in which cell it is. < 1330376968 498669 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know < 1330376989 175652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. i couldn't even find a way to use unbalanced loops usefully with that few cells. < 1330377055 576445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i certainly tried, during my failed attempt to implement a halting condition when each fractran rule had its own loop) < 1330377088 417209 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, uh. Probably a temporary table of the list of user_id's you want to zero would be nice, then you could quite efficiently zero those, maybe with the UPDATE ... FROM thing or some-such. < 1330377150 977093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'd need a join of some sort to the temporary table, right? < 1330377154 792626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If the database in question had proper foreign keys and those had ON DELETE SET DEFAULT behaviour and all your columns had a default of zero, then just deleting the user rows would automagically do the right thing, but I doubt MediaWiki does that. Historically MySQL and FOREIGN KEYs have been kinda iffy. < 1330377173 398020 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330377182 454085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't think MediaWiki does the "relational integrity" thing. < 1330377201 460941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPDATE ... FROM basically joins the update table with the FROM-list items. If it's a regular (inner) join, you'll get one updated row for each item in your list of userids. < 1330377219 979179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't even know there was an UPDATE ... FROM. < 1330377251 579856 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably "WHERE column IN (SELECT user_id FROM mylistofbadguys)" or some-such might also work. I forget how that is spelled, exactly, but anyway. < 1330377284 545234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1330377284 782183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's deprecate UPDATE FROM! < 1330377284 782388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that many people using UPDATE … FROM on a daily basis do so without being aware that they are violating all SQL standards." < 1330377308 645058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MySQL doesn't have UPDATE FROM. < 1330377316 237370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Microsoft thing, apparently. < 1330377316 866222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. < 1330377326 910268 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not a Microsoft-*only* thing. < 1330377328 522615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When a FROM clause is present, what essentially happens is that the target table is joined to the tables mentioned in the from_list, and each output row of the join represents an update operation for the target table. When using FROM you should ensure that the join produces at most one output row for each row to be modified. In other words, a target row shouldn't join to more than one row from the other table(s). If it does, then only one of the ... < 1330377335 296030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... join rows will be used to update the target row, but which one will be used is not readily predictable. < 1330377337 874043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of this indeterminacy, referencing other tables only within sub-selects is safer, though often harder to read and slower than using a join." < 1330377340 875389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Postgres docs.) < 1330377363 298691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL has... transactions, right? < 1330377382 217469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though I'm not entirely sure what kind of. < 1330377396 576087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose there's a way to clone a table's schema under a different name. < 1330377399 496592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To be my temporary table.) < 1330377420 862573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can generate a temporary table as the result of a select. If you select *, it clones all columns. < 1330377421 723196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's what views are for. < 1330377426 955268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ooh, snazzy. < 1330377428 512605 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you select less, then you'll get less.) < 1330377433 628303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also < 1330377434 175485 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CREATE [TEMPORARY] TABLE [IF NOT EXISTS] tbl_name < 1330377434 377686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : { LIKE old_tbl_name | (LIKE old_tbl_name) } < 1330377537 825170 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you actually need to create it if you use the "INSERT INTO table SELECT ..." syntax. < 1330377552 513350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, you can update multiple tables in one UPDATE? < 1330377554 619303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fancy. < 1330377563 33922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How... pointless. < 1330377630 797266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right; yes; so it's part of CREATE TABLE syntax. < 1330377640 687161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CREATE TABLE new_tbl SELECT * FROM orig_tbl;" < 1330377651 472221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or CREATE TEMPORARY TABLE if you want it to auto-drop when you disconnect. < 1330377664 910472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1330377682 58000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't list any columns after new_tbl, the names and types will be taken from whatever the select returns. < 1330377856 30113 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the sub-select in an UPDATE statement's WHERE term should return just one line if you're testing it with =; so I think it'd be something slightly ridiculous like UPDATE table SET column = 0 WHERE column = (SELECT user_id FROM badguys WHERE user_id = column) or then with the IN operator as in UPDATE table SET column = 0 WHERE column IN (SELECT user_id FROM badguys). < 1330377866 718547 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea which one's faster. < 1330377879 184648 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK guys official announcement, Whitespace is now The Worst Thing. < 1330377918 676708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/ZHLK < 1330377922 395601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :butohdearhowamIgoingtowritelegiblynow? < 1330377932 864912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's what I currently have (although me and ais523 have agreed to tweak what it does slightly). < 1330377970 800416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will take the user count down to 1432. < 1330377981 222337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we'll need YOUR HELP(tm) rounding up the remaining spambots. < 1330378057 799616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://p.zem.fi/651r -- can't tell which one of those would be better even with plans, though obvsly your statistics would differ also. (That's a bit of a nonsense example.) < 1330378148 857965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway at least with "in (select ...)" where ... doesn't depend on the particular row it's only doing the sub-select once. < 1330378167 727983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On the other hand, in the second the subquery is just an index check.) < 1330378175 513806 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1330378244 998466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://behappyandjoyful.com/ < 1330378247 507918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, it expired. < 1330378270 552678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't MediaWiki have some sort of a defined process of "do this if you want to programmatically remove a list of users" as opposed to manually setting a bunch of columns to zero? (Or is that in fact the process?) < 1330378270 811488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the bestest name to give all the spambots? < 1330378286 22048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It doesn't really support deleting users in any sort of official capacity. < 1330378300 993907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That (table, column) was a-stolen from the "Merge User and Delete" extension. < 1330378303 183773 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I suppose that's some kind of a philosophical thing. < 1330378304 688792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*column) list < 1330378313 181261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think so. < 1330378315 844651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just can't really do it. < 1330378331 134586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they consider it too brittle too bother with. < 1330378369 612296 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I think there *is* a "delete unused accounts" script. < 1330378376 885865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that thing doesn't have to bother updating any columns, by definition. < 1330378401 478670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Anyway, like I said, we're actually going to set them to something other than zero. < 1330378412 41549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're going to register a new user, and merge all the things the spammers did into that one. < 1330378416 108081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be the BIG BAD. < 1330378743 166766 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: What's the bestest name to give all the spambots? < 1330378744 387905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also oerjan. < 1330378747 399518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE PEOPLE MUST DECIDE. < 1330378754 87588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: comedy option: "MediaWiki default" < 1330378765 410049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh no, seriously oh no < 1330378771 161339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1330378775 943125 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "deleted spambot account" < 1330378784 489361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't know they're all bots! < 1330378838 945584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, since we're handling the tables properly, this means we can extend it to those with undeleted edits < 1330378878 236455 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a "deleted spambot account" if it's not deleted. < 1330378883 963870 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1330378894 388294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the account for deleted spambots. < 1330378945 324766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esoteric Marketing Department". Well, maybe not. < 1330379026 395119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, can you think of any way to make the 3-duplicate-emails thing less likely to have false positives? < 1330379031 178834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realise it almost certainly has none < 1330379037 168701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the only clause that I'm not completely sure about < 1330379043 398355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it 4 duplicate emails? < 1330379170 465112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tests
< 1330379225 599966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, it was already 4 < 1330379262 126541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is this when 4 accounts have the same email? < 1330379299 103799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1330379301 741572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignoring dots) < 1330379312 275773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if none of them have non-deleted edits you should be pretty safe, i'd think < 1330379319 248953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that criterion isn't part of it, no < 1330379327 527334 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've found several legit users with 2 accounts with the same email (me, ais523, evincar, Sgeo) < 1330379329 533128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but none with 3 < 1330379366 303683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why are Sgeo's accounts called Sgeo2 and Sgeo3? < 1330379386 814118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does Sgeo[1] have a different email? < 1330379401 647923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably < 1330379440 385562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, verified that all users with exactly 3 accounts with the same email are spammers < 1330379452 56337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION verifies that all users with exactly 4 accounts with the same email are spammers
< 1330379460 745557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, we can just use more-than-2 accounts as the criterion and be as safe < 1330379496 982091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :verified < 1330379530 855258 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could call the account "Sir Spamalot" < 1330379549 337419 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm sure i've seen that somewhere < 1330379553 951028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh, I feel safe in saying that no legitimate user would have more than 4 accounts with the same email < 1330379567 265345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that would seem reasonable < 1330379568 364901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's a monty python musical < 1330379579 573341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since I just manually verified 3 and 4, we can delete all users with more than one duplicate < 1330379675 89225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, are parens valid in usernames? < 1330379682 898420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1330379693 321120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that's valid as a page name is IIRC valid as a user name < 1330379703 912538 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(someone want to register User:///?) < 1330379717 250327 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1330379720 788918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking (deleted spam user) < 1330379754 631969 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot understand elliott's recent allergy to puns < 1330379768 887484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'VE ALWAYS HATED THEM?) < 1330379795 551280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1330379868 756948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, MW appears to be inconsistent about using "user" vs. "account" < 1330379879 183400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs. "user account" < 1330379903 40738 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you expect it to be consistent? < 1330379921 276910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, but I'd hope it to be < 1330379943 339068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The MediaWiki default user preferences are in the language file, i.e. languages/Language.php if you're using English." < 1330379945 475456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/what/ < 1330379948 586802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Spam: Coarse, Uncut". (Coarse, uncut is an anagram for user account.) < 1330379989 225932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe it's a bit too "subtle". < 1330380030 968119 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you have any serious suggestions that don't include the OMGINACCURATE "deleted" part? :p < 1330380055 638835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"spam group mind" < 1330380070 736836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you _are_ merging them, after all. < 1330380104 477133 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, you like really horrible nonsense articles about monads, right? < 1330380111 148179 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see today's entry in the competition? < 1330380117 946402 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No. < 1330380127 851693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes. In reverse order. < 1330380143 557948 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. In reverse order. < 1330380147 579961 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In reverse order, eh? < 1330380167 355150 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://the-27th-comrade.appspot.com/blog/ahJzfnRoZS0yN3RoLWNvbXJhZGVyDAsSBUVudHJ5GOFdDA < 1330380174 820637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a horrible nonsense articles about monads competition? < 1330380175 765565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :redro esrever ni ,sey < 1330380191 458003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that threatening to write a monad tutorial is about the worst threat you can make against elliott
< 1330380205 372812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[So, to prove this ridiculous statement, I told him (upper-right corner): “Monads are conditional function calls.”]] < 1330380214 760084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, that feeling of murderous rage in the morning. < 1330380218 950565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evening. < 1330380226 381929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's the day, in reverse order.) < 1330380228 506970 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to write a monad tutorial generator. < 1330380237 351715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow is that font size obnoxious < 1330380246 226528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Haskell, one example of a monad is the Maybe anythingElse type. It has two possible values: Nothing and Just anythingElse." < 1330380250 954605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two possible values! As long as anythingElse has one. < 1330380270 266943 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are you going to quote every wrong statement in there? < 1330380270 878226 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cringes
< 1330380274 150023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So, you see that what increased the cyclomatic complexity of pymon has been achieved in Haskell without any increase in cyclomatic complexity." < 1330380275 2932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1330380278 382321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: No, that would be too many. < 1330380318 153724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you don't have to write if statements that check for nullness explicitly because you can use (>>=) instead; this saves you a level of indentation < 1330380320 677608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And so … you have been using monads in Python, all along sneering at the “smug Haskell douchebags who brag about the size of their gonads or something”. You are one of them." < 1330380320 889941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know micropayments? < 1330380320 890140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with micropayments is that they give things to things you like. < 1330380320 890250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I propose microhurtments. < 1330380329 247396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone is required to put a microhurtment button on their site. < 1330380334 746740 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Micropayments are basically a conditional function call. < 1330380335 936353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because you use Python and thus have to indent your if statements) < 1330380341 759224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever anyone clicks it, it costs them a small amount of money, and delivers a small, painful electric shock to the author of the article. < 1330380349 42502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's with me? < 1330380360 957454 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was with you until the "small". < 1330380379 159156 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you’ll also have macropayments for big electric shocks. < 1330380397 486540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even this guy's name and blog title are obnoxious. < 1330380408 814384 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd make it possible for DOSes (or dDOSes) to kill people, probably < 1330380417 441501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want that much power in the hands of Anonymous < 1330380428 583784 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Want more irritating articles about Haskell? < 1330380439 6419 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently today/yesterday was unusually productive. < 1330380444 884658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, to enter the microhurtment system you have to pay slightly more than the average monthly allowance of a US teenager. < 1330380449 790353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved. < 1330380454 257200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh boy oh boy! < 1330380471 824056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, "Even simple, direct, applicable understanding of monads is a Monad" is the point where I decided the article was complete bunk after all, rather than merely incorrectly worded < 1330380505 795553 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You missed the part where monads aren't conditional function calls, and pymon doesn't actually implement (>>=) on Maybe. < 1330380528 483689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I saw that line, and assumed it was backwards, "some subset of conditional function calls are monads" < 1330380531 42388 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also the part where everything else in the article is wrong. < 1330380556 305959 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Here's the other article: http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/18319031919/programming-language-readability < 1330380565 662687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the mistake in pymon that it's missing a "then Nothing"? or something worse than that? < 1330380595 803055 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1330380602 155691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, Python's None is not comparable to Maybe's Nothing. < 1330380605 639648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, "else Nothing" < 1330380610 930466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no value to represent "Just Nothing". < 1330380614 474736 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Even simple, direct, applicable understanding of monads is a Monad: if you grok, apply." what < 1330380625 15520 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Python's if is about "falsiness", not about "Noneness". < 1330380631 356361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1330380632 783740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fails on False. < 1330380634 160608 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and '' < 1330380634 740949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [] < 1330380635 233976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0 < 1330380635 806841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd still say they're comparable, even though they're not quite equivalent < 1330380636 722041 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CA16.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330380643 505989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No.Consider that you can also write a monad as return, fmap, and join. You can't do that for None Python: < 1330380645 988512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*No. Consider < 1330380653 777426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :def return(x): return x # incorrect on None < 1330380661 12164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :def fmap(f,x): < 1330380662 80838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are plainly similar enough to compare, in fact you're doing that right now < 1330380663 340966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : if x is None: return x < 1330380664 918585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how are they not comparable? < 1330380667 42100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : else: return f(x) < 1330380670 720222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :def join(x): # impossible < 1330380671 277671 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're comparable in a few ways that have nothing to do with monads. < 1330380676 206951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is "comparable". < 1330380680 186255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are not comparable enough. < 1330380682 237891 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compares elliott and oranges.
< 1330380694 900696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, they can be compared in such a way that proves that one isn't a mond. < 1330380696 159420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*monad. < 1330380698 609837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I just did. < 1330380707 262214 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: def join(x): return x < 1330380712 205270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: elliott's been online more recently than oranges < 1330380713 957245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, fmap is wrong too. < 1330380717 360353 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If f returns None. < 1330380725 627176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact, oranges hasn't been around for almost two years) < 1330380745 828011 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:11 oranges was last seen on ##c 1 year, 112 days, 10 hours, 24 minutes and 55 seconds ago, saying: declare argv as const array of pointers to char < 1330380759 915478 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Oh, but this guy is clearly an expert. "Node.js is Bad Ass Rock Star Tech", says he. < 1330380774 108662 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: err, wow, how did you guess what channel oranges would have been in so you could ask a bot? < 1330380785 949219 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :preflex is in tons of cahnnels. < 1330380790 893253 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1330380793 24887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not this one! < 1330380802 195970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: THANKS < 1330380804 827933 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel is unworthy. < 1330380806 416141 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was when mauke was here. < 1330380812 74781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, preflex and I don't share a channel < 1330380860 671564 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess you aren't in any of the cool channels. < 1330380874 653429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I guess /preflex/ isn't < 1330380939 921658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I was trying to implement typed underload in Anarchy < 1330380948 395643 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it worked, but lacking an Anarchy compiler, I'm not sure < 1330380961 706336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I tried to compile to OCaml by hand, which is what lead to the discussion we had a few days ago < 1330380990 982490 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it a good discussion < 1330381019 924519 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, although it was mostly just me < 1330381035 753861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote flamewar < 1330381039 803325 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :321) [After a long monologue] i think i have to escape this heated discussion before it becomes a flamewar < 1330381043 329461 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjanswap had a really neat-looking type, even if it was the wrong type < 1330381090 393377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's your opinion on the code formatting thing < 1330381099 9217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1330381125 534202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shachaf linked < 1330381138 595785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i read the start of it and decided it was too stupid to keep reading further < 1330381141 569416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows some signs of being an unfair comparison < 1330381147 984817 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows every sign < 1330381162 345084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If a list comprehension or something isn’t obvious, you could just rewrite the Python in a less-pretentious way and recover this readability." < 1330381174 694548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost as if this is a bullshit argument for readability and applies to basically every language, including Haskell < 1330381174 882071 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1330381175 843846 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1330381181 982085 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every other sentence there is wrong. < 1330381183 396076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"'The Python has indent and this is important to speed-reading" < 1330381185 466167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the Haskell! < 1330381193 436342 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Second is the use of short words instead of symbols." < 1330381196 984789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like 90% of the haskell! < 1330381200 851856 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought elliott would appreciate it, but I guess he's grown wiser. < 1330381205 287638 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I guess not. < 1330381208 655662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Python goes further than most to use short concise words; COBOL used long words" < 1330381213 928707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Haskell contains a lot of technically unnecessary stuff that could have been written in the Python but wasn't < 1330381215 535155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, yes, Python is more readable than COBOL. Is this article Python vs. COBOL? < 1330381223 876458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from type signatures, that I guess you could put in the docstrings) < 1330381225 138231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Python is so readable because of significant whitespace, its conciseness and use of small words instead of symbols." < 1330381230 466010 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The two pieces of code do very different things. < 1330381232 690418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Python there looks neater than the Haskell there < 1330381233 925273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, all things that Haskell has (except sometimes it uses symbols). < 1330381237 128338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's because it's an unfair comparison < 1330381247 394661 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a slightly fairer comparison to the Python code: https://github.com/rostayob/haskell-readability/blob/master/haskell-readability.md < 1330381251 986949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it looks like the two code samples are completely incomparable. < 1330381257 83148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they even achieve the same task? < 1330381269 490097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell is doing neither of these." You listed three, moron. < 1330381277 231521 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most of the training material on Haskell that I’ve read is aimed at students with no prior programming experience." < 1330381280 457025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sort-of, the codes look like they're both used for the same purpose < 1330381284 625546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just like LYAH and RWH! Which are... both targetted at people who know how to program. < 1330381288 428723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is the Wikibook (IIRC). < 1330381290 892968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is Write Your own Scheme. < 1330381296 409029 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is this person is a complete idiot. < 1330381304 237642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can make functional languages in the Python readability style; you don’t have to try so hard to look like algebra. You can make static fast languages in Python readability style too." < 1330381311 287836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Links to his own post on "his dream programming language"; -1, Troll. < 1330381319 942470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are as many new languages as ever; my dream programming language post got suggestions other than Haskell, including Rust, D and Tart. Those three are curly bracket languages again though. Big opportunity miss." < 1330381321 558281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1, Moron < 1330381328 336097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I lament that all languages aren’t trying to be readable the Python way; to my thinking, it ought to be goal number 0." < 1330381338 225872 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1, Starting Lists From 0 To Make You Look Like A True Hacker < 1330381350 509882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Haskell goes on to use Levenshtein distance - edit distance - (here) to offer spelling corrections. Interestingly, Dr Pete Norvig has written a neat essay on this with Python source-code. Lets focus on readability over algorithm. Compare and contrast them too." < 1330381355 943017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1, This Is Becoming Completely Irreleavnt < 1330381357 393263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a reviewer for a paper I wrote actually complained that I started numbering at 0 < 1330381358 948857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Irrelevant < 1330381368 687424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though 0 was different from 1, etc., as it was the thing I was trying to prove about < 1330381380 122819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As usual, tangents spring to mind: TDD evolving solutions is really paralleled in my old adventures in genetic programming and also Kolmogorov Complexity." < 1330381389 178368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1, Crank/Idiot (Can't Tell Which) < 1330381410 871661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(This post is inspired to explain why “looks like Python” is all through my dream programming language requirements. If you liked this, you may also like the rest of the blog ;) )" < 1330381414 629654 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1, I Didn't and I Won't < 1330381422 16901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[Every blog post contains a small word-misuse for the grammar glue-chewers; this post its bare instead of bear. Do tell me if you spot any others that are accidental :) ]" < 1330381423 435625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if cyclomatic complexity is actually useful
< 1330381423 980461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1, What < 1330381428 951213 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Final Score: -238947928349234789234 < 1330381439 889692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to figure out if "its" was deliberate or not there < 1330381461 500624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oi. :( < 1330381488 935396 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Given all the other mistakes in that post, does it really matter? < 1330381499 732046 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What! < 1330381515 151031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, in the "now I'll never know" sort of way < 1330381519 660097 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other mistakes < 1330381526 837711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You complained that "Deleted spam account" is inaccurate. < 1330381534 983104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE YET TO PROPOSE A SERIOUS ALTERNATIVE :'( < 1330381559 731420 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't have alternatives, I just like to complain. < 1330381582 980571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Sorry, I may have given the impression that giving an alternative was optional. < 1330381602 613881 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You don't gotta give no alternative. < 1330381617 627617 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION -> sleep
< 1330381620 630329 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1330381623 292918 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stand up to the hird. < 1330381653 790973 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you know HURD in GNU/HURD stands for "HIRD of Unix-Replacing Daemons"? < 1330381660 538709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SDCC has a "report cyclomatic complexity" option, the stated purpose of which is to select "bad" functions for simplification/had-assemblying. Not that that's any evidence for usefulness or anything. < 1330381668 171541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Spammer chimera" < 1330381674 675192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1330381684 566346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I DIDN'T ASK FOR NON-SERIOUS SUGGESTIONS ;_; < 1330381695 85586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats elliott -----###
< 1330381711 78989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the hive mind. :/ < 1330381714 285414 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> repeat '-' ++ repeat '#' < 1330381715 784616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "--------------------------------------------------------------------------... < 1330381826 65631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now y'all gotta vote: Deleted spam account, Deleted spam user, Deleted spam user account, Spam user, Spam account, Spam user account < 1330381837 516330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix ((repeat '-'++).(>>repeat '-')) ++ repeat '#' < 1330381838 945522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "--------------------------------------------------------------------------... < 1330381878 307473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: NOT A VOTE < 1330381888 112444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i _think_ that maybe omega^omega '-'s) < 1330381892 505032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*may be < 1330381910 67144 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of '-'s < 1330381930 334586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :VOTE VOTE VOTE < 1330381938 133877 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "HA HA SPAMMER" < 1330381945 950699 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea what we're voting on.
< 1330381978 538343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, that's why you're not allowed to vote. < 1330381979 672043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TOO SERIOUS TO CARE < 1330381981 689793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, that's not a valid option. < 1330381985 641944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: VOTING IS NON-OPTIONAL < 1330381986 711616 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a poem < 1330381990 679498 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a spammer poem < 1330382026 470444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fizzie: Vote or experience mild discontent. < 1330382044 471825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I hereby remove "Deleted spam user account" from the vote. < 1330382046 572568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ridiculous. < 1330382057 850199 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Here's csh's opinion on your swatter: < 1330382058 248028 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :% If I had a ( for every - in oerjan-swatter, what would I have? < 1330382058 436596 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many ('s. < 1330382079 280441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Deleted spam user" < 1330382080 907616 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my vote < 1330382085 113707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't have a strong preference < 1330382105 71062 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll vote whatever ais523 voted, maybe that way we'll be rid of this whole naming thing? < 1330382112 154004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No no no. That's not allowed. < 1330382121 521643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voting with explicit justification of vote being to end the vote is totally banned now. < 1330382128 772479 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, why is oerjan getting the credit for that swatter? < 1330382136 399838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I changed my mind, I endorse eelpout < 1330382157 528651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, I thought you meant multiple votes of one opinion was not allowed. That would be an... interesting voting scheme. < 1330382159 4789 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I vote for cadmium. < 1330382172 453442 :Friendship!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote for "Annihilated atopical advertisement-oriented client configuration" < 1330382177 12175 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly are we supposed to vote for? < 1330382178 703705 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's eelpout can I vote for it < 1330382188 902138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what user to mark edits made by spambots as having been made by < 1330382189 588428 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i vote for monqy < 1330382194 522083 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HLEP < 1330382198 850848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i increased the ordinal number of '-'s greatly < 1330382214 952734 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Liar! < 1330382219 615928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits oerjan with a swatter with nineteenth -s
< 1330382225 160870 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :An invalid IP address. < 1330382228 696504 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :REMINDER: THE VALID OPTIONS ARE: Deleted spam account, Deleted spam user, Spam user, Spam account, Spam user account < 1330382232 86086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also monqy. < 1330382234 382443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy is now a valid option. < 1330382236 473264 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy < 1330382246 72170 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION
< 1330382247 663393 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Your version uses more memory than mine, so the process would be terminated sooner. < 1330382250 986243 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy < 1330382265 659380 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma monqy < 1330382265 847893 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy has a karma of 0 < 1330382267 854170 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: < 1330382268 279146 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :% Describe the dash-count of oerjan's swatter, please. < 1330382268 467550 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unmatched '. < 1330382270 86257 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ monqy < 1330382270 275045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy's karma raised to 1. < 1330382272 744385 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deleted spam user account. < 1330382284 359699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what do you think of zzo38's suggestion of an invalid IP address? it's quite clever < 1330382287 23545 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, can I change my vote to zzo38? < 1330382291 635240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's as clever as it is confusing < 1330382293 207677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. < 1330382300 644370 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 < 1330382303 440542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But I removed that option :( < 1330382303 628132 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 < 1330382303 984492 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND monqy < 1330382319 617212 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i;m also voting for hello < 1330382331 238291 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why? Is the name too long to fit in MediaWiki? < 1330382332 118002 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stop using cologne blue < 1330382346 184748 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't like it, because it's too many words. :( < 1330382352 166838 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deleted spam account. < 1330382364 365632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--THE VOTE IS NOW CLOSED-- < 1330382374 712133 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you for participating. Well, thank the people who participated for participating. < 1330382405 907158 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s⃠p⃠a⃠m⃠ < 1330382414 741353 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did anyone participate? < 1330382426 780989 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, open the votes so my suggested can get in. < 1330382428 142069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my client can't really render the crossed-out m properly < 1330382428 329596 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s⃠p⃠a⃠m⃠ < 1330382440 922285 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s⃠p⃠a⃠m < 1330382449 180063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is there actually a combined character for doing that, or is that some sort of cunning combination of multiple combining characters? < 1330382454 351360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the m doesn't fit in the circle) < 1330382476 487636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client doesn't see any strange char at all < 1330382483 81595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the logmobile -> < 1330382498 137729 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1330382511 123343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1330382516 687535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you ever look at that log where we XSSed oerjan? < 1330382523 703724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1330382527 64568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think so < 1330382534 138126 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a toerjan horse < 1330382547 469334 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"troerjan" would work better, I think < 1330382552 689955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is http://goat a valid URL? < 1330382560 484765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's missing the TLD, I think < 1330382566 489168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is if goat becomes a TLD. < 1330382566 676703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ever get me with that, there will be some banning around here. < 1330382567 408529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and some would be goatse, and some wouldn't) < 1330382572 334696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which it will be, one day. < 1330382580 805083 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trurl jan < 1330382585 249022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's a surprisingly bold statement to make < 1330382588 404611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is there ever not banning around here when we inconvenience you in some way? < 1330382590 43026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Many resolvers will add the local domain or whatever's in the search path; and how many networks there are without a goat? < 1330382594 290222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You haven't seen my life plan. < 1330382600 478115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: very observant. < 1330382605 729215 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last step is to pay a lot of money to register goat as a TLD < 1330382624 199554 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: By the way, I just made you a sysop. < 1330382627 49713 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A room without books is like a network without a goat" -- Cicero < 1330382627 250774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: please don't actually do that < 1330382640 141401 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA OK < 1330382651 703737 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0xAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1330382652 522868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 102609391136443956281976666927457327617395154350170434031115347406889900446... < 1330382664 971089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What, it's helpful! < 1330382678 36802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but it's not helpful /enough/ < 1330382703 636312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'll crat him instead. < 1330382714 284639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was referring to the goat thing < 1330382721 183424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the sysopping oerjan thing < 1330382735 345992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you /think/ I meant? < 1330382739 103939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1330382741 263036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with sysopping oerjan < 1330382745 207156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then! < 1330382746 457209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ENJOY. < 1330382753 144439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But what if I want to register goat as a TLD? < 1330382755 977959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I not allowed to? < 1330382760 318530 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be helpful < 1330382765 702706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: but not helpful /enough/ < 1330382791 895772 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :things don't have to be helpful! < 1330382801 248837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want to register goat and put, e.g. a picture of a goat there, that's totally OK. < 1330382813 276699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what TLDs are designed for! < 1330382821 63293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop polluting the TLD namespace! < 1330382830 254190 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goats aren't polution < 1330382831 839573 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goats are goats < 1330382834 544095 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goat is goats < 1330382835 873865 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goat < 1330382844 400892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: icann decided thats what they were for < 1330382850 715051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if companise are allowed to < 1330382853 545292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :goat should bet oo :'( < 1330382861 443901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goat/o/ < 1330382866 840785 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bets it all on oo
< 1330382889 182112 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523, "Deleted spam account" or "Deleted spam user"? < 1330382895 545053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :& furthermore why (500 word minimum) < 1330382900 490767 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently some squatter is squatting goat.ee < 1330382901 646439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dice 1d2 < 1330382901 833172 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1d2 => 1 < 1330382909 334114 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought voting was closed. < 1330382912 677801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but I can only fit 510 characters on a line! < 1330382916 274311 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a goat.oo < 1330382920 605257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK, 1 word minimum. < 1330382928 289232 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it is, we've gone from democracy onto dictatorship < 1330382941 191864 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And monqy is the dictator? < 1330382963 319240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hmm, normally I'd say "user" because it's used for the purpose of saying who did the editing, not what they edited via, but "account" seems to fit spambots better because they aren't actually people < 1330382970 705927 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new spam user deleted summary every day < 1330382974 310794 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my promise < 1330382983 43463 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"keeping it fresh" < 1330382984 147555 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-236-164.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1330382989 89676 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-254-220.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330382992 72075 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :- monqy, promising, for the people < 1330383009 658449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: oh no, you've reminded me of why I stopped being a politician < 1330383023 470533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(short version: I was too honest running for re-election, and only got 2 votes out of several thousand) < 1330383027 707816 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm still wondering who the other one was) < 1330383039 775337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you even get elected in the first place < 1330383040 830632 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you lie < 1330383043 820352 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1330383062 772418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was under a different system, in which I managed to get in unopposed several years in a row < 1330383075 166770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I didn't need to state my opinions at all < 1330383123 167558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "user" or "account" < 1330383132 198646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am merely consulting a few people in my role as dictator, not establishing a vote.) < 1330383156 979544 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :toughe choice < 1330383169 874963 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vote for "thing" < 1330383183 289266 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1330383184 508005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No voting. < 1330383190 838811 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nonvote for thing < 1330383195 686445 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a thing for thing < 1330383201 203373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't Wikipedia eventually settle on the term "!vote"? < 1330383215 381553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for things that were like votes in every way, except officially not being votes? < 1330383258 389757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yse < 1330383259 450338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1330383261 426438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazing < 1330383276 628157 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The con-two-centsus. < 1330383296 585622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: "Deleted spam user" or "Deleted spam account" & why (5 word minimum) thanks. < 1330383306 677132 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why is my computer so loud and hot? :-( < 1330383312 243549 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And heavy. < 1330383319 488602 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the battery life is so short. < 1330383321 221885 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote "Mickey Mouse". < 1330383332 357191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Nope! This isn't a vote. < 1330383341 61484 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: stop using it and these problems will go away < 1330383351 671499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Because you didn't follow my advice. < 1330383352 702613 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except perhaps the heaviness < 1330383353 301515 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vote for monqy and "Mickey Mouse" will be today's spam account deletion summary < 1330383358 543687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I found your "saying who did the editing" argument convincing. < 1330383361 936440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've gone for "user". < 1330383438 829433 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: By the way, I'm pretty happy with it so far. < 1330383443 377287 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: When do I stop being happy? < 1330383459 107251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Soon. < 1330383465 314516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1330383467 74131 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon. < 1330383469 5700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then I'll run the query on the DB < 1330383472 362110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after taking a backup, ofc) < 1330383491 733872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you merging users directly on the DB? < 1330383922 14318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp vote c printf("Your vote has been registered.\n"); < 1330383922 552042 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Interpreter vote installed. < 1330383934 274786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!vote Cthulhu for president! < 1330383939 539205 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your vote has been registered. < 1330383950 751174 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!vote < 1330383953 728 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your vote has been registered. < 1330383955 671774 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1330384005 216405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def vote ul (Your vote has been registered.)S < 1330384005 403738 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1330384006 522540 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For redundancy. < 1330384052 803886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also say that they share the same record of registered votes, in a sense. < 1330384058 544926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1330384306 183675 :kmc!~keegan@184-200-118-210.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1330384712 95053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", strcmp("", "test")); < 1330384714 293552 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-1 < 1330384725 154165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d\n", strcmp("a", "test")); < 1330384727 254810 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-1 < 1330384735 561926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like this: http://sprunge.us/eeWX < 1330384777 335407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: change COMMIT to ROLLBACK first for testing < 1330384787 328513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that'll do absolutely nothing, surely? < 1330384792 872633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't ^ and $ identical commands? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Sortle < 1330384794 48489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1330384803 6431 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what's the point? < 1330384810 127803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you miscapitalised "from" in "DELETE From watchlist" < 1330384818 789069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: @ask graue < 1330384821 826169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so you can inspect the situation before the rollback to see if it's what you expected < 1330384834 211505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, transactions don't work like that? < 1330384835 260013 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330384843 361145 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do if you do them slowly enough < 1330384852 240630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1330384859 669601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you run it up to the rollback < 1330384861 809562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then look at the state < 1330384866 408174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if it's not what you expected, rollback < 1330384883 7643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1330384888 173785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was going to take a backup first < 1330384893 307820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically equivalent < 1330384935 273945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's the difference between the change going live and the change not going live while you test < 1330384968 729520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK, but I'm going to set the wiki to read-only mode < 1330384976 879863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the worst that could happen is a minute's outage < 1330385043 764864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, do you really trust MySQL to isolate a transaction properly? :) < 1330385059 180212 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I guess not :) < 1330385123 372434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, and I'll keep the wiki read-only to scan through the account list to find any others we missed < 1330385241 44564 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, the wiki is officially read-only < 1330385242 770551 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps take a backup too? < 1330385256 463198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm about to < 1330385364 827508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Query OK, 3131 rows affected (37.67 sec) < 1330385366 625853 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that be a many spam < 1330385437 467502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think these UPDATEs are running over every single element of the table. < 1330385442 602364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It be a very slow. < 1330385510 775767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very, very slow. < 1330385525 380634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: btw I hereby enlist you for help in going over the resulting user list to find any remaining spammers. < 1330385646 66115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql> UPDATE logging SET log_user = @spam_user_id WHERE log_user IN (SELECT user_id FROM spammers) < 1330385646 440803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> UPDATE ipblocks SET ipb_by = @spam_user_id WHERE ipb_by IN (SELECT user_id FROM spammers); < 1330385646 631287 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR 1064 (42000): You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'UPDATE ipblocks SET ipb_by = @spam_user_id WHERE ipb_by IN (SELECT user_id FROM ' at line 2 < 1330385646 945893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1330385672 253228 :kmc!~keegan@184-200-118-210.pools.spcsdns.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1330385974 447111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, the rows-affected results look right < 1330385992 855489 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are now 1371 users left, which is correct < 1330386018 162875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most of them are still spammers, ofc, but still) < 1330386022 973344 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :commit time! < 1330386024 357868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, anyone here know how to go from a hexdump of a file to the actual file? < 1330386031 630765 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: od, IIRC < 1330386034 307142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: R U READY < 1330386040 310472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it has a reverse-dump mode? < 1330386053 337294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm aSQLeep now, by the way.) < 1330386054 477493 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think so < 1330386067 323102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, doesn't seem to < 1330386078 875280 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're trying to recover a crashed website from people's browser caches < 1330386104 769487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, < 1330386105 502776 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR u.user_name REGEXP '^\\d+ buy ' < 1330386105 835886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I guess I can do this with a Perl oneliner < 1330386108 849392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work < 1330386112 778981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, there's a ton of them still left < 1330386115 246582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm, might be cached < 1330386126 762416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, nope, that part just didn't work < 1330386138 51700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Deleted_spam_user heh < 1330386173 35791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: xxd has a reverse-dump mode; but Perl with some pack 'C*' and map hex split is what I've used. < 1330386184 451123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ASQLeep, eh? < 1330386202 530440 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, as of now. < 1330386223 129758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it wants [[:digit:]] < 1330386224 946071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1330386240 880421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1330386280 580830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, here we go again < 1330386282 691630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vrooom < 1330386306 338411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there go 48 more users :) < 1330386328 477026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=5000 btw < 1330386375 985915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, this actually worked < 1330386410 290379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep, but there's still a bunch left; it'd be nice to get the low-hanging ones before unlocking the DB < 1330386454 292376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I meant my reverse-hexdump thing < 1330386463 829081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1330386477 823378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :| 2408 | Asd184900 | asd184900@asd.de | dsfgdsfgsfd | 0 | < 1330386478 731889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1330386489 567034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that matches the pattern < 1330386491 110950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wasn't it dropped? < 1330386496 940277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1330386497 825754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the email < 1330386504 14865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, /me just removes the email requirement < 1330386507 25409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody legit is going to have that username < 1330386522 898018 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just delete the whole user database and let people re-register? < 1330386528 74054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they're all @asd.de < 1330386536 750814 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I refuse to do that < 1330386555 227774 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1330386659 966863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha, one of our users is called "Angela"; I wondered for a moment, but it turns out it's a spambot < 1330386667 45768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1330386669 914291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like deletion is the correct choice :P < 1330386729 909094 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how busy are you right now? < 1330386748 29715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the middle of this recover < 1330386776 330532 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, blognomic.com has some malware on it < 1330386783 624415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some javascript redirects me to google.com < 1330386796 541786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's been complaining about that recently < 1330386801 550945 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to comment in the associated thread < 1330386822 824670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what input I could provide, exactly < 1330386827 571538 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1330386857 181673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1330386863 172480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't admins edit the template? < 1330386867 462684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably removing that would fix it < 1330386923 662269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey you < 1330386939 852842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1330386950 846140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how trustworthy are you < 1330386956 73140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure precisely what to do
< 1330386962 352793 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very dubious < 1330386981 633051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, sounds good to me < 1330386983 918012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your email < 1330387039 202699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan at a certain place called nvg in org < 1330387090 350407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, just nvg.org? < 1330387191 863631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes