00:00:43 <oerjan> ^def swat bf +.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[.,]<<.>+.....<+++...-------------------------.[-]+.
00:01:32 <oerjan> ^def swat bf +.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[.,]<<.>+.....<+++...[-]+.
00:02:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
00:03:16 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:03:48 <oerjan> ^def swat bf +.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[--------------------------------[++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]],]<<.>+.....<+++...[-]+.
00:03:58 * fungot swats elliott -----###
00:04:11 * fungot swats elliott -----###
00:04:39 <zzo38> ^def swat forth 1 EMIT ." ACTION swats " [BEGIN] KEY EMIT KEY? 0= [UNTIL] ." -----###"
00:04:39 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:04:59 <oerjan> i think elliott has a negative feeling about ^swat for some incomprehensible reason
00:05:00 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:05:07 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:05:09 <elliott> I hereby mandate that ^swat can only return under that Forth form.
00:05:21 <elliott> oerjan will just have to implement Forth in Befunge-98 if he wants it.
00:05:39 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:05:47 <olsner> looks like lots of FUN has been had in the channel tonight
00:05:57 <oerjan> zzo38: only bf and ul are implemented languages
00:06:42 <zzo38> oerjan: O, there is no language extensions either?
00:07:25 <oerjan> zzo38: they're both implemented in funge-98 in fungot's source
00:07:25 <fungot> oerjan: i'm having a big bang theory!!! you die...", and then having each entry be a 16-bit cons cell. also popular: ' lst' for lists.
00:07:46 <shachaf> ^def swat bf +1 EMIT ." ACTION swats "++++++++++[BEGIN>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-] KEY EMIT KEY? 0= >-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[UNTIL--------------------------------[++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]],]<< .">+.....<+++...[-]+. -----###"
00:07:51 * fungot swats elliott -----###
00:08:01 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:08:42 <zzo38> Are you trying to cinfuse things?
00:09:16 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
00:09:30 <elliott> oerjan: btw fix http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=AutoMouse&curid=1235&diff=30864&oldid=30819 thanks
00:09:34 <HackEgo> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
00:10:37 <zzo38> It is probably easier to implement Forth without GNU extensions, anyways
00:11:09 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: google googleit do
00:11:37 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b
00:11:56 <shachaf> In other words, we need infinite types support.
00:27:11 <elliott> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/124343/how-to-fix-it-if-your-variables-arent-passing
00:41:04 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
00:46:50 <oerjan> elliott: it was removed?
00:48:16 <shachaf> ^def swat bf +1 EMIT ." ACTION swats "++++++++++[BEGIN>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-] KEY EMIT KEY? 0= >-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[UNTIL--------------------------------[++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]],]<< .">+.....<+++...[-]+. -----###"
00:48:21 * fungot swats elliott -----###
00:54:45 <elliott> > "abc" >>= flip replicateM_ [0..]
00:54:46 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
00:55:06 <elliott> > [0..] >>= (`replicateM` "abc")
00:55:06 <lambdabot> ["","a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","a...
00:55:28 <elliott> > [1..] >>= (`replicateM` "abc")
00:55:29 <lambdabot> ["a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","aac"...
00:55:48 <oerjan> elliott: i'm pretty sure that one's been done here before
00:55:49 <elliott> [1..] >>= (`replicateM` "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz012346789")
00:55:53 <elliott> > [1..] >>= (`replicateM` "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz012346789")
00:55:54 <lambdabot> ["a","b","c","d","e","f","g","h","i","j","k","l","m","n","o","p","q","r","s...
00:56:15 <shachaf> 16:48 < copumpkin> > [0..] >>= (`replicateM` ['a'..'z']) -- fine
00:56:59 <oerjan> also some times with =<< iirc
01:02:03 <elliott> Nobody minds if I wildly abuse solidity's network connection, right?
01:06:35 <oerjan> well it's your connection
01:09:39 -!- itidus21 has joined.
01:10:09 <HackEgo> itidus21: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
01:10:34 <itidus21> now i know which type of esoteric this is
01:11:02 -!- augur has joined.
01:11:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:11:53 -!- augur has joined.
01:12:13 <HackEgo> itidus21: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
01:19:13 <oerjan> is like a burri… wait, wrong tutorial.
01:25:51 <lambdabot> ["aaa","aab","aac","aba","abb","abc","aca","acb","acc","baa","bab","bac","b...
01:35:14 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
01:35:58 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:37:11 <oerjan> elliott: "An `MVar` is like a burri… wait, wrong tutorial."
01:37:25 <oerjan> quote from parallel haskell digest
01:38:36 * oerjan also wants to strangle the haskell designers for not making a raw string syntax
01:39:04 <elliott> oerjan: use a TH qq package?
01:39:46 <oerjan> elliott: i couldn't find an appropriate one.
01:40:53 <oerjan> i made such a module myself though
01:40:53 <elliott> oerjan: there's an ehird SO answer for that(tm)
01:40:54 <zzo38> I did put , on my own idea of programming language, the syntax for string literals that can be heredocs. Possibly later version of GHC might also add extensions for such things
01:41:29 <elliott> oerjan: let me dig it up :P
01:41:46 <elliott> oerjan: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8956801/which-haskell-library-for-interpolated-strings (I cover ones that can't do interpolation too)
01:41:53 <elliott> though with an interpolated one you only have to worry about, like, ${ and |]
01:41:59 <elliott> which are probably unlikely strings for you
01:42:24 <oerjan> indeed those are not legal Qdeql syntax :P
01:42:49 <oerjan> well, except that Qdeql treats everything else as comments.
01:43:03 * elliott has ~10 minutes to learn how to use screen
01:43:13 <elliott> elliott@solidity:~$ screen
01:43:13 <elliott> elliott@solidity:~$ echo $TERM
01:43:24 <oerjan> i suppose interpolation _might_ be nice
01:44:39 <elliott> oerjan: how do you detach a screen session
01:44:49 <oerjan> i have never used screen
01:45:18 <elliott> quintopia: ok, where does that put the file thing?
01:45:53 <elliott> that works even past ssh reconnects, right?
01:47:03 <quintopia> if you will be attaching from multiple devices, and don't want to have to remember whether you detached or not
01:47:21 <quintopia> (detach from elsewhere and reattach here)
01:48:19 <elliott> this is just so I can leave mplayer running without having to be connected all the time, and still be able to check on it easily
01:49:35 -!- cheater has joined.
01:49:49 <oerjan> heh string-qq looks almost like what i wrote
01:50:07 <oerjan> with a few enhancements
02:00:53 <oerjan> elliott: btw i think i didn't find your answer earlier because i was searching for raw strings, which are not mentioned on that page
02:01:53 <oerjan> while there are a couple other answers telling haskell doesn't have them
02:03:58 <Jafet> I like my strings medium rare
02:05:18 <oerjan> Jafet: it's a bit annoying when you're trying to quote snippets from an esolang which uses \ all over the place
02:06:26 <oerjan> Jafet: by quoting i mean "but into a haskell program"
02:06:43 <elliott> oerjan: you could just read from a file, you know
02:06:47 <elliott> with unsafePerformIO if you must
02:07:06 <oerjan> elliott: um part of my annoyance is also about having to make this more than one file
02:07:16 * oerjan hasn't actually started writing the program yet though
02:10:40 <oerjan> ok so i got the idea to click on a random page on the wiki to see if there was something to improve.
02:11:24 <zzo38> Perhaps use a kind of preprocessor
02:11:30 <elliott> oerjan: better improve it!
02:11:37 <elliott> i suggest e.g. blanking the page
02:11:50 <elliott> i do the random cleanup thing too
02:12:28 <zzo38> I think you should leave it there. It is one of the joke languages
02:12:38 <oerjan> i think there is a certain point of view from which the Esme page is already perfect.
02:14:21 * oerjan hits random again instead
02:20:10 <elliott> oerjan: what did you hit :D
02:20:31 <oerjan> zzo38: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/incal/ doesn't load
02:20:31 <elliott> wow, it doesn't even have an introduction
02:20:45 <elliott> oerjan: it is probably obsoleted in favour of a gopher link :P
02:21:25 <itidus21> wow it earned the Shameful category
02:21:45 -!- azaq23 has joined.
02:21:55 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
02:22:59 -!- azaq23 has joined.
02:23:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Changing host).
02:23:01 -!- azaq23 has joined.
02:23:08 -!- azaq23 has quit (Client Quit).
02:23:30 -!- azaq23 has joined.
02:24:15 <itidus21> in a place where obfuscated code is celebrated
02:25:50 <elliott> hmm, this mp3 file is going to end up at like a gigabyte.
02:26:02 <itidus21> so the feat is to make a full sized article about an esolang which actually has no meaning
02:27:57 * oerjan swats zzo38 for being another person prohibiting the web archive
02:28:03 <itidus21> ###b#ott#les#of#b#eer o#n t#he #w#all#, ###lovely ###[[Esme]]ralda ###o#n ###t#h#e #b#ee#r...
02:28:16 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
02:29:01 <itidus21> to think that i could accidently catch the bus with the person who wrote "###b#ott#les#of#b#eer o#n t#he #w#all#, ###lovely ###[[Esme]]ralda ###o#n ###t#h#e #b#ee#r..."
02:29:13 <elliott> `addquote <itidus21> to think that i could accidently catch the bus with the person who wrote "###b#ott#les#of#b#eer o#n t#he #w#all#, ###lovely ###[[Esme]]ralda ###o#n ###t#h#e #b#ee#r..."
02:29:16 <HackEgo> 814) <itidus21> to think that i could accidently catch the bus with the person who wrote "###b#ott#les#of#b#eer o#n t#he #w#all#, ###lovely ###[[Esme]]ralda ###o#n ###t#h#e #b#ee#r..."
02:29:24 <elliott> oerjan: technically, everyone. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/robots.txt
02:31:00 <oerjan> oh so even google isn't allowed
02:31:26 <elliott> oerjan: you must have missed zzo38 suggesting blocking google as the solution to all google-related problems.
02:31:37 <oerjan> well at least the page is a little prettier now
02:32:49 <oerjan> oh hm forgot the introduction
02:36:10 <elliott> hard to write without any more information...
02:38:55 <Friendship> GREGOR-FRIENDSHIP-RICHARDS: also makes #esoteric news regularly.
02:42:13 -!- tikfreenode has changed nick to Tiktalik.
02:44:48 <elliott> NihilistDandy: You seem to be assuming zzo38 is a member of everyone.
02:45:23 <zzo38> Actually a few other people also use gopher
02:47:34 <elliott> hmm, why did the dollar recover from a few years ago? i distinctly recall it being <0.6 gbp
02:48:19 <pikhq_> elliott: That might have actually been the GBP failing.
02:49:35 <oerjan> pikhq_: elliott clearly means this in the "Storm in the channel; continent isolated" sense.
02:49:49 <elliott> pikhq_: That's impossible.
02:50:06 <pikhq_> 1 USD is still ~0.75 EUR...
02:50:27 <zzo38> Is it all relative?
02:50:40 <pikhq_> zzo38: Yup. Gotta love fiat currency.
02:51:17 <elliott> pikhq_: Anyway, gimme ten pounds.
02:51:23 <elliott> It's the least you could do, as an American.
02:51:46 <quintopia> elliott: as an american, it is my duty to offer you ten pounds worth of work
02:52:06 <pikhq_> Also, USD is still at near parity with the CAD.
02:52:46 * pikhq_ gives elliott 4.5 kilograms
02:54:07 <pikhq_> GBPGBPGBPGBPGBPGBPGBPGBPGBPGBP
02:54:21 <elliott> pikhq_: 10 dollars of your American currency thank you.
02:54:53 <pikhq_> Oh, fine, sure, that's worth approximately nothing.
02:55:06 * pikhq_ gives elliott enough cash to buy a single stick of gum
02:55:44 <elliott> Wait, it'll actually be more like 300 megabytes, not 2 gigabytes.
02:56:10 -!- NihilistDandy has quit.
03:01:13 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy UPDATE
03:09:17 <elliott> http://groups.google.com/group/haskell-cafe/browse_thread/thread/ec9910ce56eb9187 mcquary rolls in his grave
03:17:13 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block#E-mail_and_Usenet, see McQuary limit
03:25:48 <oerjan> elliott: i noticed that guy too
03:26:08 <oerjan> although top posters annoy me more, for essentially the same reason
03:32:16 * Sgeo is tempted to try something, but that's kind of weird
03:32:37 <Sgeo> Doesn't work anyway
03:32:56 <elliott> what kind of monster would type @peniq
03:37:02 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy UPDATE
04:04:13 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: pointful pointless pointy
04:04:52 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: ask id kind ping wn
04:05:23 <Sgeo> @pointy foo bar
04:05:29 <Sgeo> @pointy foo . bar
04:05:56 <Sgeo> @pointy I want to have your babies
04:06:33 <Friendship> Didn't know if ` would be meaningful X-D
04:07:02 <Sgeo> `echo @pointy I am going to slap Friendship
04:07:05 <HackEgo> @pointy I am going to slap Friendship
04:07:20 <Sgeo> Invisible space?
04:08:03 <Sgeo> @pointy `echo`
04:08:18 <Sgeo> Why at end of input? Since when did ` mean something in Haskell?
04:09:24 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: div`: not found
04:10:13 <oerjan> @pointy this `echo` sucks
04:10:19 <elliott> <Friendship> Sgeo: Botloop avoidance WOMP WOMP
04:10:23 <elliott> Friendship: Which caused me to use fungot instead.
04:10:23 <fungot> elliott: ( including the procedure)
04:10:30 <elliott> Friendship: Yer losin' customers.
04:10:48 <elliott> @pointy the `including` procedure
04:10:56 <Friendship> elliott: HackEgo is playing the world's smallest violin.
04:15:41 <elliott> Friendship: It's too slow to manage anything bigger, eh?
04:17:02 -!- TeruFSX_ has joined.
04:19:35 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:23:44 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:24:50 <elliott> Friendship: I suppose I shouldn't talk, when botte's bitcoins would have been stolen, did it exist.
04:25:14 <elliott> Its precious, precious bitcoins.
04:38:18 -!- itidus20 has joined.
04:41:26 -!- itidus22 has joined.
04:41:45 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:41:47 <HackEgo> itidus22: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
04:44:40 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:55:25 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:56:04 -!- Jafet has joined.
05:27:10 -!- itidus22 has changed nick to itidus21.
05:32:03 <shachaf> elliott: DINOSAUR COMICS ARE THE DEVIL
05:37:00 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
05:49:17 -!- madbrain has joined.
06:05:24 -!- TeruFSX_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:06:56 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
06:07:09 <Sgeo> "All online casinos use an RNG, but not all RNGs are the same. Of course, for security reasons, we can’t tell you exactly how ours works; but we can give you an idea: "
06:11:15 <Sgeo> https://www.uwinpoker.com/en.integrity.shuffler
06:11:24 <Sgeo> They apparently reshuffle the deck after each draw
06:11:53 <Sgeo> That sounds like a setup for something that sounds more secure but for subtle reasons isn't so random. I have no idea though.
06:12:17 <MDude> SO it's not "we've got a big chunk of uranium and a lot of geger counter pointed at it"?
06:12:32 <Sgeo> MDude, sounds like they're simulating it.
06:12:46 <Sgeo> Well, simulating a different quantum thing
06:13:01 <Sgeo> Which makes little to no sense, because the simulation itself needs random numbers from somewhere.
06:13:10 <MDude> Looking at it, guess thet do have that.
06:13:39 <madbrain> The easy way is to sample sound card noise
06:14:30 <MDude> I'm not sure what the simulation would even be other than calling for a random bit when the photon hits hte half-mirror.
06:14:42 <Sgeo> "Hole cards are only visible to the players that hold them. Even our floor manager cannot see what you are holding until the game is finished."
06:14:53 <Sgeo> That sounds like a recipe for trusting the client.
06:15:11 <Sgeo> Unless they're just talking interface-wise.
06:15:24 <madbrain> simpler guess: the page is all bullshit
06:15:51 <Sgeo> I was just talking to their live support too, but closed out. Maybe tomorrow I'll bring this up to them, see what they say.
06:16:24 <Sgeo> "The “black box” shuffler is itself set within a totally secure system.
06:16:24 <Sgeo> The only thing which can enter our shuffler is a secure, coded request for a freshly shuffled deck of cards.
06:16:24 <Sgeo> The only thing which can come out of our shuffler is a shuffled deck of cards."
06:16:32 <madbrain> I'd guess they use some hardware source of randomness coupled with a statistically reliable programmatic RNG
06:16:33 <MDude> Random numbers are generated by a giant brain hooked up to the various computers via large cables sunk deep into it's frontal lobes.
06:19:23 <Sgeo> "Just to be sure, the Shuffler monitors the output of the RNG for randomness.
06:19:37 <Sgeo> What happens when, just randomly, the output looks non-random?
06:19:54 <Sgeo> Fails the statistical tests, or whatever.
06:20:39 <madbrain> if your test is good, the chaces of that are ridiculously low
06:21:06 <MDude> Pull out another number and xor them?
06:24:34 <madbrain> well, it's gotta have at least one source of real entropy
06:24:53 -!- madbrain has changed nick to madbr.
06:26:13 <madbr> good luck predicting the cpu cycle counter's last bit on a server for instance
06:28:31 <MDude> Build two machine learning algorithms, there one tries to predict the output of the other, which itself attempts to avoid being predicted.
06:29:10 <madbr> just have them play rock paper scissors
06:29:50 <elliott> MDude: reminds me of that self-avoiding sequence i implemented
06:30:00 <MDude> I would but 3 isn't a power of 2.
06:30:23 <MDude> Ellitt: Neat, what did you implement it in/for?
06:31:27 <elliott> it was python for no real reason, and for: because <whatever name fax was using at the time> proposed it in-channel :P
06:31:40 <elliott> basically at each step it constructed a markov chain of increasing order from its existing output
06:31:51 <elliott> and then picked the /least/ likely bit to follow the $order bits it just outputted
06:32:33 <madbr> you could do it with burrows wheeler transform too I guess :D
06:33:14 <MDude> I'm not really familiar with the details of that kind of stuff.
06:33:23 <MDude> Like what order means exactly.
06:33:34 <MDude> But I'll need ot go to bed before learning up on it.
06:33:48 <elliott> order just means how many previous symbols you use
06:34:04 <elliott> a markov chain is just a map of $order previous symbols to every next symbol seen and its probability (relative to every sequence it's seen)
06:34:33 <MDude> I thought order had to do with the probabiltiy function somehow.
06:34:46 -!- MDude has changed nick to MSleep.
06:41:13 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
06:45:01 -!- MoALTz has joined.
07:11:08 -!- Taneb has joined.
07:15:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:15:39 -!- Ngevd has joined.
07:16:48 <Sgeo> macroexpand does not in fact expand all macros
07:16:51 * Sgeo is not pleased.
07:17:05 -!- Ngevd has quit (Client Quit).
07:26:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
07:26:38 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
07:27:08 <zzo38> I did once think of "card dealing protocol", where the server does not need to know what game you are playing; however, all clients must know and will receive some information from the server whenever a card is dealt, and possibly private. Depending on the game, you might require all clients to check with the server after the game is finish, to know that you are not cheating.
07:33:16 <Sgeo> swank-backend:macroexpand-all works I guess
07:33:29 <Sgeo> I feel uneasy with the notion of using SWANK as a library
07:39:19 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
07:47:00 <lambdabot> Supported dictionary-lookup commands:
07:47:00 <lambdabot> all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02
07:47:00 <lambdabot> Use "dict-help [cmd...]" for more.
07:47:06 <lambdabot> *** "swank" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
07:47:06 <lambdabot> adj 1: imposingly fashionable and elegant; "a swank apartment"
07:47:06 <lambdabot> n 1: elegance by virtue of being fashionable [syn: {chic},
07:47:22 <lambdabot> {chicness}, {chichi}, {modishness}, {smartness},
07:47:23 <lambdabot> {stylishness}, {swank}, {last word}]
07:47:23 <lambdabot> v 1: display proudly; act ostentatiously or pretentiously; "he
07:47:23 <lambdabot> showed off his new sports car" [syn: {flaunt}, {flash},
07:48:35 <oerjan> something is wrong with my . translation
07:48:45 <elliott> oerjan: i wouldn't rely on fungot for things that aren't pure ascii
07:48:46 <fungot> elliott: the new fnord
07:49:14 <elliott> `addquote <fungot> elliott: the new fnord
07:49:15 <fungot> elliott: what is the point? nothing changed.
07:49:17 <oerjan> elliott: well irssi fallbacks to latin-1 or so
07:49:23 <HackEgo> 815) <fungot> elliott: the new fnord
07:49:32 <HackEgo> *poof* <fungot> elliott: the new fnord
07:49:33 <elliott> `addquote <fungot> elliott: the new fnord <fungot> elliott: what is the point? nothing changed.
07:49:33 <fungot> elliott: we're all like that. does that fit into the day i decide to use ' fdisk /dev/ hda
07:49:36 <HackEgo> 815) <fungot> elliott: the new fnord <fungot> elliott: what is the point? nothing changed.
07:49:45 <elliott> oerjan: yes but i still wouldn't trust it.
07:50:06 <oerjan> right the neighbors let out the dog, mental work immediately becomes impossible.
07:50:22 <oerjan> (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
07:50:52 <oerjan> in any case, i was just trying to print an 'a'
07:51:14 <oerjan> and some other character appeared instead. also the loop quit unexpectedly.
07:53:41 <oerjan> oh less shows it as <FF>
07:54:23 <elliott> oerjan: have you considered investing in earmuffs
07:57:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
08:10:17 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
08:10:56 <oerjan> oh whoops i forgot that \ adds two 0's again
08:12:42 <oerjan> yay it printed the 'a'
08:12:54 <oerjan> but why did it still quit the loop
08:14:00 <Jafet> Someone should make a language called Lime Slices
08:18:01 <oerjan> yay ,[.] seems to be working
08:18:29 <Jafet> Hm, no one's named their language Sublime
08:19:39 <oerjan> now to add an extra , (it's not trivial because the first one cheats by having an already zeroed cell)
08:26:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:29:04 -!- itidus20 has joined.
08:31:22 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:32:54 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
08:33:23 <oerjan> http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/qdeql/cat
08:34:11 <oerjan> elliott: i was thinking of doing one of the 3-cell bf constants
08:34:54 -!- itidus21 has joined.
08:35:00 -!- itidus21 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:37:35 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
08:40:04 -!- Taneb has joined.
08:40:30 -!- augur has joined.
08:42:12 <Taneb> I think Fueue is Turing-complete
08:47:17 <Taneb> As it has the capability for loops and decision-making, and has unbounded memory.
08:51:43 -!- Ngevd has joined.
08:54:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:59:29 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:04:28 <fizzie> elliott: I have been kinda-sorta asleep.
09:06:23 <elliott> fizzie: Yes, and you were TOO LATE.
09:06:39 <elliott> fizzie: I ended up dumping the stream on the Linode with mplayer, and playing the stream itself with VLC.
09:07:58 -!- myndzi\ has joined.
09:10:10 <Sgeo> elliott, ...Ng and Ta aren't here, monqy UPDAte
09:10:57 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
09:18:40 <elliott> http://supervillainornewt.com/
09:21:50 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
09:25:59 <hagb4rd> > [x | a <- [2,3,5,7,11,13,17], b <- [1,3,4,6,7], x <- [a^b] ]
09:26:00 <lambdabot> [2,8,16,64,128,3,27,81,729,2187,5,125,625,15625,78125,7,343,2401,117649,823...
09:26:34 <hagb4rd> how do i make x the intersecting set of a and b?
09:27:52 <elliott> it's... not really clear what you want
09:28:01 <oerjan> elliott: last insane bug: writing "3-cell brainfuck" in a comment on top of the file
09:28:13 <elliott> > intersect [2,3,5] [1,3,5]
09:28:33 <elliott> hagb4rd: note that [x | ..., x <- [y]] === [y | ...]
09:28:46 <elliott> so in your expression you can skip the binding of "x" entirely
09:28:57 <elliott> (or alternatively replace the binding with "let x = a^b")
09:38:02 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:38:48 -!- MoALTz has joined.
09:52:31 <oerjan> http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/qdeql/75
09:52:53 <oerjan> so all the parts have been tested
09:53:04 <elliott> i take it it's not yet automated?
09:53:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
09:54:03 <elliott> * After the 1.19wmf1 deployment several people have complained about various aspects of the new diff styling
09:54:04 <elliott> -- The contrast being too low in the highlighted part (darker background behind bolded text)
09:54:04 <elliott> -- The colors not being obvious perhaps (orange/blue)
09:54:04 <elliott> -- Color blind users not seeing the difference very well between the light tones of the orange and blue
09:54:05 <elliott> -- Trevor mentioned something about W3C Accessibility guidelines
09:54:07 <elliott> To play it safe for now I think we should revert these changes to the status quo, and take the next few days (or weeks) to carefully check the concerns, perhaps look at other diff tools out there for inspiration (GitHub, Gerrit, LocalWiki, ..).
09:54:13 <elliott> WHY MUST YOU RUIN MY SHINY
09:54:41 <elliott> "A new patch is coming which will provide the same functionality as these changes did, but without breaking accessibility." yay
09:55:20 <elliott> oerjan: heh the new MW diffs are going to look like http://bug-attachment.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
09:56:31 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
09:58:14 <elliott> oerjan: oh i lie, the borders will only be on the side
09:58:22 <elliott> hope this is a sufficiently disconcerting change
09:58:40 <coppro> elliott: is there a loggrep in one of these bots?
09:58:56 <coppro> I'm looking for that link you posted a while back to the BBC radiophonic workshop sound sampley thingy
09:59:15 <elliott> though pastlog is more useful (ignores today)
09:59:28 * elliott isn't sure which link you're referring to
09:59:40 <coppro> elliott: it was a flash application on the bbc site I think
10:00:00 <coppro> oh wait what have i done
10:00:05 <HackEgo> 2008-11-05.txt:02:46:55: <Slereah> The BBC is a pretty cool guy
10:00:13 <HackEgo> 2010-08-21.txt:17:05:32: <alise> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316
10:00:14 <elliott> `pastelogs http://bbc\.co\.uk\b
10:00:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15060
10:00:32 <elliott> (takes a few seconds to populate)
10:00:59 <elliott> `pastelogs http://bbc\.co\.uk
10:01:07 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6261
10:01:15 <elliott> `pastelogs http://(www\.)?bbc\.co\.uk
10:01:23 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18773
10:01:50 <elliott> I see news-ham is adequately represented
10:02:51 <elliott> i like how it was ph and not me
10:04:13 <coppro> yeah I thought it was you
10:11:33 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur).
10:23:43 <oerjan> in the news: elliott still ham-fisted
10:31:21 -!- Vorpal has joined.
10:34:51 -!- Taneb has joined.
10:42:12 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:42:38 -!- Taneb has joined.
10:44:17 -!- tzxn3 has joined.
10:47:18 <fizzie> Oh, I had somehow gotten the notion that pastlog's randomization was weighted to bias older entries, but apparently it indeed is just "ignore last day".
10:48:50 <elliott> We don't do fancy things like that here
10:49:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nope).
10:49:51 <fizzie> "You have completed 5/10 questions. Your score is 100%." I doubt I can keep this up, though.
10:51:15 <fizzie> 8/10 correct in the end.
10:54:46 <fizzie> elliott's supervillainornewt.com link.
10:55:31 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:55:51 -!- Taneb has joined.
10:57:07 <olsner> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvW2xeSn4As
10:57:09 <olsner> Fearsome Flying Jacob - Regular Ordinary Swedish Meal Time
10:57:44 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:00:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: How do you do on that thing?
11:05:01 <Vorpal> well I got 5/10 at least. I'm very surprised some of those ideas weren't from super villains. Or maybe they were: Arguably that man is nuts...
11:21:05 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
11:26:37 -!- NihilistDandy has quit.
13:44:32 <oklodol> i retract my ens because apparently you are a fuckface.
13:53:59 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de).
13:57:39 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
14:10:18 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:23:05 -!- Taneb has joined.
14:23:50 -!- aloril has joined.
14:31:19 -!- elliott has set topic: Four loko biodiesel eu raw denim butcher hoodie. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers!.
14:31:37 -!- elliott has set topic: Four loko biodiesel eu raw denim butcher hoodie. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
14:52:15 -!- Ngevd has joined.
14:52:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
14:57:37 -!- Taneb has joined.
14:59:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:01:05 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
15:02:51 -!- Taneb has joined.
15:12:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye).
15:14:44 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
15:15:33 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:19:20 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
15:26:52 -!- MoALTz has joined.
15:58:03 -!- derdon has joined.
16:00:27 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:01:09 <ais523> so, to recall a conversation from ages ago, I figured out how to make highlight work together with less and lesspipe
16:01:38 <ais523> just write 'highlight -A "$1" 2>/dev/null' in ~/.lessfilter, and chmod it executable
16:03:19 <ais523> lesspipe calls ~/.lessfilter, and if it errors out, lesspipe handles the error itself (by falling back to what it would have done anyway), so you don't have to handle lesspipe failing
17:32:22 <oklodol> so i have to program this fuckload of crap today and i'm like hey the day is young
17:32:31 <oklodol> then i realized i have to get on the bus at 0300
17:32:53 <oklodol> so i have 8 hours to program everything in the universe and get ready (that is, grab my laptop)
17:34:10 <oklodol> also my passport will expire in like a month, do you know if they care about that at the airport, i just heard they do in some third-world countries
17:34:48 <oklodol> i'm coming through london which i guess is pretty much a bonsai somalia
17:35:04 <oklodol> (yes, #esoteric is my google)
17:36:18 <fizzie> ISTR that mostly for the EU region it's enough that it doesn't expire during the trip, but I could well be worng.
17:37:24 <elliott> More like: doesn't expire during: the TRIP.
17:37:38 <elliott> I expired during the trip, once.
17:46:59 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude.
17:57:12 -!- oklodol has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
18:03:07 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
18:32:58 -!- zzo38 has joined.
18:42:10 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:42:53 -!- Taneb has joined.
18:48:15 <Vorpal> If I have a complex polygonal model (say, a room in a 3D game), is there any algorithm to figure out if there are any holes in said room. I presume you could do it by defining a point that you know is outside and one that you know is inside and checking if you can connect them or not, but is there any efficient algorithms for that?
18:57:53 <Vorpal> Checking that every edge connects to another edge wouldn't work: You can have a surface that is inside the room but not connected on one corner. (For example, the leaves of a plant inside the room would have this property)
18:59:17 <Taneb> And the algorithm you suggested won't work if there's a closed box in the room
18:59:40 <Vorpal> Taneb, the one with outside and inside point?
19:00:13 <Friendship> Um, you'd have to have one amazingly broken pathfinding algo for that to be true ...
19:00:30 <Taneb> If the inside point is inside the box, there'll be no path at all, even if there is a hole in the room
19:00:44 <Friendship> The box is the room of that inner point.
19:00:49 <Vorpal> Taneb, the inside and outside points would have to be manually placed to be sane though
19:01:00 <Taneb> By what algorithm?
19:01:15 <Taneb> I'd assume you want this to be as automated as possible
19:01:21 <Friendship> The inner point, if this is in a game, would presumably be where the character is.
19:01:25 <Friendship> The outer point may be more difficult.
19:01:26 <Vorpal> I'm not aiming to solve the problem of detecting which one is outside and which one is inside. Just if given an inside an an outside, is there a path between them or not
19:02:45 <Vorpal> Friendship, I believe for my purpose I could just do something like "inside is defined as the room spawn marker and outside we set to something like 9999,9999,9999"
19:03:03 <elliott> Friendship: I hate you so much.
19:03:04 <Vorpal> that point is unlikely to be inside, and if it was it would just be a false positive
19:03:28 <Taneb> Or a potentially false negative, if it's in a box
19:03:53 <Taneb> I suspect Vorpal may not
19:03:59 <zzo38> Why do you want to know if there are holes in the room?
19:05:08 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
19:05:10 <Taneb> Okay, let's assume for convinience, well chosen points
19:05:11 <Vorpal> zzo38, to be able to automatically find areas that need fixing.
19:05:42 <elliott> Friendship: I'm spending my time writing JavaScript. I'm spending my time *optimising* JavaScript.
19:05:47 <elliott> This is not the life I was meant to lead and it's all your fault.
19:06:27 <Taneb> elliott: create a Haskell to JavaScript compiler.
19:06:42 <zzo38> I think such a thing Haskell->JavaScript exists.
19:06:51 <Vorpal> hm, wasn't there some early FPS that did this before writing out levels created in the editor? Quake or some such... Might be worth looking at that.
19:06:54 <elliott> Taneb: That would not make it go fast.
19:07:12 <Taneb> elliott: be amazing at writing Haskell to JavaScript compilers
19:07:30 <elliott> Friendship: The best part about JavaScript and O(n) algorithms is, n has to be under 500 or so, or you're fucked.
19:07:31 <zzo38> But depending on what you are doing, you might not need JavaScripts at all and can use native codes
19:07:49 <Friendship> elliott: Naw, you just roll your own CPS ^^
19:07:51 <elliott> Friendship: So, you know... it's completely obliterated and obsoleted the field of complexity analysis.
19:08:02 <elliott> Who cares any more? It just has to be under O(500).
19:08:13 <elliott> Friendship: CPS? I'm not running out of stack, it's just slow as shit.
19:08:23 <Friendship> elliott: You use CPS so that you can yield to the browser.
19:08:39 <elliott> Friendship: But the problem is that my tight loop isn't going fast enough to display smoothly.
19:08:49 <elliott> That will just give the browser more time to not display the next frame.
19:08:53 <Vorpal> the source was released for quake right?
19:09:40 <zzo38> If it is going to be slow like that, don't put it on a webpage. Write a C or Haskell code which can be downloaded and compiled and operated locally.
19:09:41 <Taneb> I believe so, Vorpal
19:10:18 <zzo38> I expect a native code to run faster.
19:10:29 <Vorpal> Taneb, this problem is quite similar, not exactly the same, and I'm not sure if it depends on how the level is built up or not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_engine#Reducing_3D_complexity_to_increase_speed
19:10:39 <elliott> Friendship: V8 *should* be ripping this to shreds, I think the problem is that I'm doing canvas operations inside my loop.
19:10:48 <Taneb> Vorpal, any non-wikipedia links?
19:10:54 <elliott> Friendship: Maybe I'll have a tight loop doing all the maths and another loop doing the canvas shit, so that the first one can be optimised out.
19:11:15 <Vorpal> Taneb, specifically it seems it used convex 3D models to make up the environment, mine might not be convex.
19:11:33 <Taneb> I was challenged by a friend.
19:11:53 <Taneb> To not go on Wikipedia until Easter
19:12:10 <Vorpal> And I don't know any. Someone should add "[citation needed]" there
19:12:18 <Vorpal> since it doesn't cite anything on that paragraph
19:12:25 <elliott> Taneb: What do you think of this new esolang? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Abacompute
19:12:44 <Slereah> I read that as ABBA compute
19:12:50 <Taneb> I think it's a veil to make me lose my challenge
19:12:58 <Slereah> You are the dancing queen!
19:13:06 <elliott> Taneb: It's on the wiki, man.
19:13:17 <Taneb> Especially as searching the wiki for that name yields no results
19:14:34 <Vorpal> elliott, besides he said wikipedia not any wiki in general
19:15:18 <Taneb> It's an empty page
19:15:29 <elliott> Oh, fuck, not that problem again
19:15:40 <Vorpal> elliott, for me it says the page doesn't exist
19:15:56 <Vorpal> okay now it redirects, what?
19:16:08 <elliott> Pfft, you're imagining things.
19:16:09 -!- nys has joined.
19:16:18 <Vorpal> I wasn't aware #REDIRECT or whatever it is called worked to another wiki
19:16:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:18:22 <elliott> I wonder if you fail lent if you, e.g. decided to give up chocolate but someone decides to force-feed you chocolate.
19:18:35 <elliott> Thus foiling my devious plan :'(
19:22:51 <elliott> Friendship: Aha, splitting the two loops worked perfectly.
19:22:59 <elliott> Well, to a degree, anyway.
19:24:09 <Phantom_Hoover> <Vorpal> I wasn't aware #REDIRECT or whatever it is called worked to another wiki
19:27:33 <elliott> It has been 0 days since etc.
19:31:00 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:34:41 <elliott> Friendship: "This is one thing that I really like about JavaScript: You can write a three line function for a trivial operation and still need 800 words to explain its true nature."
19:34:52 <elliott> Friendship: So, I'm beginning to suspect that John Resig is just really high, all the time.
19:37:10 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
19:40:13 <elliott> Friendship: So, why is the canvas API so terrible?
19:41:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:44:26 <elliott> Friendship: Like everyone else didn't bolt on crap too.
19:46:13 <Friendship> Only Apple nailed the apple-flavored jelly to the JS/DOM tree.
19:46:23 <elliott> Is it even possible to get the rendered contents of a canvas as a bitmap object and blit it into another one?
19:46:26 <elliott> I want to cache this shit.
19:48:06 <elliott> Okay. Is there a better way to find out how than blindly gawking at Mozilla's impossible wiki docs?
19:59:10 <zzo38> Oops! How are you supposed to play Hero Hearts if the hearts are upsidedown?
20:02:21 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:02:39 -!- zbrown has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:03:26 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
20:09:40 -!- zbrown has joined.
20:15:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:27:35 <myndzi> elliott: i seem to recall it wasn't too bad, but i never implemented it haha
20:34:21 <Vorpal> <elliott> Friendship: "This is one thing that I really like about JavaScript: You can write a three line function for a trivial operation and still need 800 words to explain its true nature." <-- that is trivial in any language that doesn't require line breaks for parsing...
20:37:26 <elliott> <Vorpal> Hurr what is line
20:40:08 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
20:44:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:45:26 -!- monqy has joined.
20:46:28 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:47:57 <zzo38> Is there such a thing as "failing Lent"?
20:49:58 <zzo38> Vorpal: The period of time between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday.
20:50:01 <Vorpal> (apart from past tense of "lend" with a capital letter at the beginning of the word)
20:50:22 <shachaf> Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up.
20:50:35 <elliott> `addquote <shachaf> Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up.
20:50:41 <HackEgo> 816) <shachaf> Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up.
20:52:11 <Vorpal> Oh, "Lent" is the same as "fasta" in Swedish.
20:52:23 <monqy> is that anything like pasta
20:52:28 <elliott> apparently this is a thing people actually do in PHP: extract(array_map("mysql_real_escape_string", get_defined_vars()));
20:52:30 <Vorpal> monqy, no it is like fasting.
20:52:38 <shachaf> Don't be silly. Pasta isn't Swedish.
20:52:46 -!- aloril has joined.
20:52:49 <elliott> 10 points to the first person to explain what it does
20:53:06 <Vorpal> elliott, is that +10 or -10?
20:53:29 <shachaf> elliott: What it does or what it's meant to do?
20:53:39 <Vorpal> elliott, if you tell me what "get_defined_vars()" does I can tell you what the whole does
20:53:43 <monqy> it is also meant to do php
20:53:53 <Vorpal> I just hope it isn't as stupid as it seems, knowing php devs it probably is
20:54:12 <Sgeo> Something to do with putting slashes in all variable contents?
20:54:28 <elliott> Vorpal: It gets the defined vars.
20:54:46 <elliott> Hint: extract is the inverse.
20:55:08 <Vorpal> elliott, so it changes every variable in the program to be mysql-escaped?
20:55:13 <elliott> In the local scope, I think.
20:55:25 <elliott> slightly_less_magic_quotes
20:55:44 <Vorpal> I don't understand why anyone would not simply send the data as bound parameters.
20:55:58 <Sgeo> Vorpal, because PHP doesn't come with that?
20:56:09 <Vorpal> you know, "select * from foo where name = ?" or whatever and then bind that
20:56:15 <Sgeo> Actually, the PHP installation we used in class did, so
20:56:23 <Sgeo> (Although the teacher certainly never showed us)
20:56:32 <elliott> Vorpal: PHP couldn't do that back ages ago.
20:56:38 <Vorpal> Sgeo, pretty sure there is some database API of php that does that
20:56:44 <zzo38> Does MySQL and/or PHP support these kind of SQL parameters binding?
20:57:48 <Vorpal> I seem to remember using php and psql bindings, I just currently can't think of a reason I would /have/ that memory. Sure I have been forced to use php a few times (mostly when trying to fix something in a bug tracker or wiki software) but usually you had to use mysql as well then
20:58:00 <Vorpal> so why do I remember using psql and php? Weird.
20:59:16 <elliott> I've been doing some PHP lately. It's... uh...
20:59:31 <Vorpal> it is a bit like perl, but far worse.
21:00:09 <Vorpal> (And as you probably know by now, I'm not exactly a fan of perl.)
21:00:21 <Vorpal> though actually, it is bad for different reasons than perl
21:01:08 <zzo38> I think in a few ways, PHP is like Perl but worse.
21:01:35 <elliott> Nah, Perl is a really great, rich language, in the relative scale. PHP is a 64 kbps MP3 rip of Perl from 2001.
21:02:13 <Vorpal> I can't argue with "rich language" certainly
21:03:11 <elliott> PHP is like if Perl was a complex three-dimensional object and somebody took a photograph of it, so all the depth perception was ruined, then they asked an almost-blind person to recreate the original object with their feet based on that photograph.
21:03:15 <zzo38> I have written my own SQL templating program; currently it only works with SQLite but you can modify it to work with other SQL system if you want to. I have written a separate program to make it work with CGI, since the SQL templating program itself cannot use CGI. Both programs are written in C.
21:03:34 <zzo38> elliott: O, yes, OK.
21:03:55 <ion> elliott: Well said. :-D
21:04:42 <elliott> Then they stole the OOP sculpture from the Java building and just plonked it on top.
21:04:50 <monqy> perl has $s in front of stuff and php does too. they're basically the same language.
21:05:08 <Vorpal> I don't think I ever used the OOP features thankfully
21:05:19 <zzo38> monqy: In that case you understand neither Perl nor PHP......
21:05:39 <Vorpal> monqy, I always found the $ in front of a lot of stuff to be rather ugly
21:06:15 <zzo38> Vorpal: I have used the object oriented features in PHP as a substitute for partially applied functions
21:06:38 <ion> > let a = 42 in show $a
21:06:53 <elliott> > let ($a) = 42 in show ($a)
21:06:54 <lambdabot> <no location info>: Parse error in pattern
21:07:06 <elliott> > let _$a = 42 in show ($a)
21:07:07 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> t1)
21:07:47 <elliott> > let f$a = f 42 in show $a
21:09:30 <zzo38> Do you believe me?
21:21:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:32:27 -!- PiRSquared has joined.
21:34:39 <Sgeo> Note: I mentioned this place in another channel. Be ware.
21:36:10 <Sgeo> Someone was talking about how they thought Freenode was "enabling" Christians by allowing channels like #jesus to stay with one #
21:36:34 -!- jix has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
21:36:39 <Sgeo> "Sgeo: how refreshing to see you talk about something other than whatever the heck homestuck is"
21:36:54 -!- jix has joined.
21:36:56 -!- Friendship has set topic: The international hub for exoteric voodoo programming and astral software projection. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
21:37:01 -!- Friendship has set topic: The international hub for exoteric voodoo programming and astral software projection. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
21:37:04 -!- Friendship has set topic: The international hub for exoteric voodoo programming and astral software projection. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
21:37:27 <elliott> What the fuck are you doing
21:37:39 <elliott> `addquote <Sgeo> "Sgeo: how refreshing to see you talk about something other than whatever the heck homestuck is"
21:37:43 <HackEgo> 817) <Sgeo> "Sgeo: how refreshing to see you talk about something other than whatever the heck homestuck is"
21:37:44 <Friendship> Apparently my client went "Once? I think you mean thrice."
21:37:54 -!- elliott has set topic: Go away | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers! Fuck you!.
21:38:22 <ais523> perhaps I should put the gosc stuff in the topic
21:38:38 -!- Friendship has set topic: Gosc away | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers! Fuck you!.
21:38:55 <ais523> elliott: btw, they're counting views of the license page as downloads of the software, because they don't host it themselves and are using google analytics in an attempt to count downloads indirectly
21:39:22 <elliott> ais523: well, I viewed the license page at least twice for my one download (which was not under the license)
21:39:45 <ais523> hmm, you'll probably cancel out me
21:39:54 <ais523> admittedly, I've never downloaded the software from there because I haven't needed to
21:40:02 <Sgeo> What software?
21:40:06 <ais523> Sgeo: https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/
21:40:11 <ais523> admire the beatifully well-designed website
21:41:20 <elliott> I wish I paid taxes so I could be indignant about my taxes funding a work licensed in a way that severely restricts my use of it.
21:41:53 <Sgeo> What... is it, exactly?
21:41:59 <Sgeo> Some sort of language?
21:42:04 <ais523> Sgeo: it's a compiler from Verity to VHDL
21:42:26 <Sgeo> Ah. I know vaguely what VHDL is, but not Verity
21:42:35 -!- oklopol has joined.
21:42:47 <ais523> right, because we invented Verity for the purpose
21:42:57 <ais523> it's a call-by-name higher-order statically-typed language
21:43:07 <ais523> which is really an Algol variant, but in disguise
21:43:45 <elliott> Sgeo: Search for "gosc.tgz" to download it without agreeing to the license.
21:43:51 <elliott> Then you can look at the example programs.
21:44:02 <ais523> elliott: but the example programs are very permissively licensed
21:44:39 <elliott> ais523: Did the University grant you permission to license them in that way? If so, why not the rest of the package?
21:44:42 <elliott> Anyway, it's the principle of the thing.
21:44:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:45:05 <elliott> [[In the event of a dispute arising from or relating to this Agreement the Parties will attempt to settle it by mediation in accordance with the Centre for Effective Dispute Resolution (“CEDR”) Model Mediation Procedure. Unless otherwise agreed between the Parties, the mediator will be nominated by CEDR. To initiate the mediation a Party must give notice in writing (“ADR notice”) to the other Party to the dispute requesting mediation.
21:45:05 <elliott> A copy of the request should be sent to CEDR. The mediation will not start later than 30 days after the date of the ADR notice.]]
21:45:20 <elliott> ais523: How much will it personally inconvenience you if I try and annoy them with this?
21:45:32 <ais523> elliott: it's licensed so as to retain the ability to commercialise
21:45:44 -!- MoALTz has joined.
21:48:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Someone gotta pay them so I can use them as a platform for indignancy wrt ais523's compiler's licensing.
21:48:59 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's a crazy EULA
21:49:11 <ais523> I told the lawyers about the obvious contradictions and I fixed them
21:49:24 <ais523> it's a licence agreement
21:49:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It doesn't just restrict your ability to redistribute derivatives.
21:49:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It restricts your ability to *make* them.
21:50:05 <elliott> They have to be for "academic teaching" or "non-commercial research" purposes.
21:50:13 <elliott> ais523: (ii) You many make derivative works for the purposes of non-commercial research.
21:50:32 <elliott> oh, I guess you noticed that
21:50:47 <ais523> I still think "LICENCE.rtf" is the best one
21:50:58 <elliott> hmm, I bet the easiest way to get this under a reasonable license would be to sabotage all attempts at commercialisation
21:50:59 <ais523> I asked if I should rename the file, but meh
21:51:03 <elliott> who wants to help me spread FUD about hardware compilers?
21:51:07 <ais523> I /did/ turn the executable bit off, though
21:51:37 <ais523> elliott: what you do is you sell it to Xilinx and Altera for a fortune
21:51:41 <ais523> /then/ you opensource it :)
21:51:55 <ais523> (note: probably wouldn't work in practice)
21:52:04 <elliott> maybe I'll write my own Verity implementation
21:52:21 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:52:24 <ais523> feel free; I recommend that you GPLv3 it
21:52:36 <ais523> (v3 is very important in this context, for reasons that I hope are obvious)
21:53:05 <zzo38> Yes I agree, make GPLv3
21:53:53 <zzo38> Is there FPGA which does not support encryption, and that has open specification?
22:00:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:03:35 -!- augur has joined.
22:09:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:17:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:19:54 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:24:02 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:29:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:30:11 -!- dunny1 has joined.
22:31:59 -!- dunny1 has left.
22:43:30 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:47:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
22:49:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:50:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:13:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:17:56 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:29:47 <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
23:30:11 <oerjan> `addquote <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
23:30:14 <HackEgo> 818) <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
23:30:28 <ais523> it was a rhetorical question :)
23:33:34 <olsner> I ask the same question every time I mkdir
23:34:48 <oerjan> imagine a world in which it _did_ work.
23:38:56 <olsner> since that system could just figure out the whole command for you, all you need to do is press tab and enter, tab enter, tab enter until you're done
23:41:58 <oerjan> <zzo38> Oops! How are you supposed to play Hero Hearts if the hearts are upsidedown? <-- play villain hearts duh
23:43:02 <olsner> if the hearts are upside down, it's hero butts?
23:44:36 <oerjan> well the villains tend to be the butt of the joke
23:50:03 <oerjan> new mezzacotta blog posts! it's only been 1 1/2 years!