< 1332806456 476893 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332806468 783874 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332806511 478633 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332807335 982543 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Excess Flood < 1332807407 268336 :Guest21084!root@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-upavrnixifpdjtdd JOIN :#esoteric < 1332807509 90422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1332807804 219492 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332808419 125215 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.252 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1332808594 707661 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332808635 145719 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-202-16.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1332808640 311552 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-30.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332809078 289330 :Guest21084!root@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-upavrnixifpdjtdd QUIT :Changing host < 1332809078 487966 :Guest21084!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1332809091 685092 :Guest21084!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1332810897 188295 :hagb4rd2!~hagb4rd@koln-4db40dd4.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd2 < 1332811416 539357 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1332812912 807215 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332813214 79892 :NihilistDandy!~NihilistD@65.183.136.252 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1332813245 964065 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e74d.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332813704 880019 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the part about showing off his copy of the dragon book next to the teapot < 1332814349 217869 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-20.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332814369 208206 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-252-30.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1332814519 941737 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332814725 411 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e74d.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd < 1332814983 958095 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42d1b.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332816586 528017 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.230.217 NICK :MSleep < 1332817672 157878 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, UPDATE < 1332818216 54625 :MSleep!~fyrc@67.232.230.217 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332820367 488368 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1332821770 784984 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1332822124 81046 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4db41515.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332822124 486242 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42d1b.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1332822125 60518 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4db41515.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1332823188 193525 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1332825936 629247 :chickenz!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1332826934 908167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1332827612 442789 :juha0011!~chatzilla@82.128.144.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332827664 296290 :juha0011!~chatzilla@82.128.144.70 NICK :nortti < 1332827741 204689 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why exactly is W = \x.\y.x(yy) not a bck term? < 1332827896 598227 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In x(yy) y occurs more than "at most once" < 1332827918 521548 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the definition here says "for subterms \x.M" and x(yy) does not look like it has the form "\x.M" < 1332827952 426915 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :\y.x(yy) would be such a subterm, but if I got that right, y is not free. < 1332829472 182676 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db41515.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332830760 220315 :nortti!~chatzilla@82.128.144.70 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643] < 1332831617 406230 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1332832670 273480 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332833230 861896 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. How do I stop YouTube from ever trying HTML5 < 1332833243 956487 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...by removing myself from the trial < 1332833258 82101 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with HTML5? < 1332833267 855884 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm blaming it for my inability to use YouTube < 1332833324 14805 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1332833330 426231 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried an HTML5 video demo, it crashed. < 1332833352 50604 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should upgrade your browser < 1332833373 95325 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Chromium 17.0.963.79 < 1332833399 434169 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's pretty silly of google isn't it < 1332833404 389899 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :their own site doesn't work in their own browser < 1332833438 67556 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: i too noted the irony some time ago ^_^ < 1332833499 431206 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno where exactly but i am sure i did < 1332833504 586313 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the HTML5 stuff is working fine on firefox for me < 1332833537 308389 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, i wish it used it all the time, because i haven't got flash working yet since an OS install < 1332833544 207943 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs itidus21 company < 1332833578 158134 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1332833581 143920 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1332833597 246971 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fine < 1332833605 17611 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs company < 1332833611 965673 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.23986 < 1332833636 511771 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha i'm using the wrong tool for hte job < 1332833774 603373 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1332833776 974376 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log one of that companies websites < 1332833788 39595 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-03-25.txt:21:56:18: Sgeo_: it wouldn't make sense for a company's browser to be the most compatible with one of that companies websites < 1332833820 43484 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yes it would < 1332833870 339283 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah .. the irony is delicious < 1332833973 457832 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Chromium 17.0.963.79 a non-stable version? < 1332834005 146258 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question, not sure < 1332834018 732612 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not according to http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/2012/03/chrome-stable-update_10.html < 1332834704 315501 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42be5.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332834980 978972 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Also, you're a bad person. < 1332834983 433190 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apparently.) < 1332834988 351241 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (bad(Sgeo)) < 1332834989 228535 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1332835004 701396 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("Sgeo is a bad person\n"); < 1332835005 404861 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1332835006 663782 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :else < 1332835008 105490 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1332835022 614048 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's funny when chromium sucks at youtube and google maps < 1332835026 459501 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is frequently the case < 1332835042 681874 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there even a difference between this channel and that channel? < 1332835150 31999 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that channel is that channel, this channel is this channel < 1332835209 289377 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, pretty sure you have it backwards. That channel is this channel, and this channel is that channel. < 1332835232 468521 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: these are not the channels you're looking for < 1332835246 8561 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neither are those) < 1332835247 85777 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what channel is "that" channel? < 1332835344 290728 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue: Ask elliott. < 1332835360 577897 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott would probably get mad, but then realize that that channel isn't actually *that* channel. < 1332835364 440353 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know what I mean. < 1332835376 759025 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i don't want to get involved < 1332835385 970736 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and when you say that channel, do you mean this channel? < 1332835397 470633 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, this channel is identical to itself? < 1332835404 501508 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a frickin' tautology < 1332835466 981174 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42be5.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess that channel is a reference to this channel < 1332835481 179738 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like I should clue graue in < 1332835486 459216 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm not a jerk. < 1332835488 163663 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many features of evolution theory seem partially mistaken? That is probably the case with any scientific things that people figure out new things in future. < 1332835502 366404 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, the other channel. < 1332835517 43864 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I don't think you *can* clue graue in. < 1332835531 650490 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first two letters are an abbreviation, the rest is identical to the name of the subreddit where Reddit Gold members can hang out < 1332835573 48147 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is helpful! < 1332835587 593317 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never used reddit < 1332835627 854958 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Oh, that channel. Not *that* channel. < 1332835665 78095 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_ this was not helpful < 1332835742 495588 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any ideas what the abbreviation might be? < 1332835769 439913 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry now that I started this. < 1332835785 383844 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1332835787 279158 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I'll stop being cruel < 1332835807 168030 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, *that* channel < 1332835824 781753 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1332835844 686295 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When elliott reads these logs (hi elliott!) he'll get annoyed at me. < 1332836165 830262 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1332836247 66300 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : hi monqy < 1332836356 485196 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1332836575 7719 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1332836617 749585 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81f279.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332836618 233447 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db42be5.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1332836618 718619 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-5d81f279.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1332836709 127617 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f279.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry my machine crashed..any answers i might have missed? < 1332836723 662818 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f279.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh..wrong chan < 1332836773 177772 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have been looking for "that" channel < 1332836822 666116 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying when people make a public big deal out of knowing a secret < 1332836827 860486 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw this a lot in college < 1332836831 70910 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also from google employees < 1332836862 58895 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, i have a funny story about that < 1332836869 818171 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but it's a secret < 1332837083 906466 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332838558 260778 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332838572 5007 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[-.+[->+<]>+] < 1332838727 260387 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Run this brainfuck code: +[-.+[->+<]>+] < 1332838841 614822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++[-.+[->+<]>+] < 1332838842 253502 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : . . !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ ... < 1332838847 725740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The most useful.) < 1332838896 19304 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually designed to cause a buffer overflow in an esoteric programming language. < 1332838966 699 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a newly-discovered buffer overflow bug and will probably never be fixed. < 1332838991 614316 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1332839012 402403 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to run it on http://ideone.com/ < 1332839036 919070 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will, of course, get an "out of memory" error. < 1332839108 702057 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean it's designed to cause a buffer overflow in an esoteric programming language < 1332839124 644398 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about this same buffer overflow bug in another esoteric programming language, like Befunge? < 1332839124 805918 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a specific brainfuck implementation? < 1332839138 665487 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1332839145 10380 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't really understand what you're getting at < 1332839204 900452 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running out of memory is not a "buffer overflow". < 1332839214 775691 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1332839249 666412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some brainfuck implementations also have a wrapping tape; didn't the original? Fungot at least does. < 1332839306 25360 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about trying to run it with a brainfuck implementation with an infinite number of memory cells? < 1332839350 889553 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, was this translated to another language, like Befunge? If so, show me the code. < 1332839518 967242 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buffer overflow is when you manage to corrupt memory by putting excessive data into a buffer. Nothing is being corrupted here. < 1332839584 23182 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most esolang interpreters that provide a finite amount of memory are smart enough to stop the program upon the program's memory being filled. And for infinite memory, it stops when the computer is out of memory. < 1332839617 598833 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buffer overflow would be if some BF interpreter, written in C, say, allocates 30,000 cells but neglects to put in checks that memory being written to is within those 30,000 cells < 1332840097 203552 :NSQX!daba13f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.218.186.19.243 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1332841759 757538 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks some of the people in this channel would like http://io.smashthestack.org:84/ level 11 < 1332841888 375926 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :will explain what it is if you like, but spoilers < 1332841917 457954 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks some of the people in this channel would like http://io.smashthestack.org:84/ level 11 < 1332841920 65316 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :derp < 1332842786 418472 :cheater!~cheater@e181157006.adsl.alicedsl.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332843601 806950 :cheater!~cheater@g231047233.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1332843997 169563 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f279.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332844134 489071 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329994.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332844445 937650 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1332845012 466911 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332845038 361307 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :every body in there? < 1332845055 354193 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1332845073 638732 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332845102 191546 :myndzi!myndzi@c-67-168-184-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332845176 747616 :GhostHand_!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332847194 715828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1332849547 18377 :Patashu!~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1332849745 533887 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332849770 783427 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why that topic i < 1332849771 910814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate you < 1332849873 476065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1332851016 900299 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :estimez le poids du gâteau de fruits < 1332851186 549800 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329994.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332851298 570622 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e29b.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332851314 37736 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net TOPIC #esoteric :estimez le poids du gâteau de fruits < 1332851320 472099 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1332851335 763621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1332851338 867351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott TOPIC #esoteric :estimez le poids du gâteau de fruits | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1332851340 44103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1332851802 783689 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good very good < 1332852241 66587 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is our standard erlang environment < 1332852245 852415 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're running x windows on a sun workstation < 1332852258 806448 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just make a normal call just to see that the system works < 1332852264 570404 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello mike < 1332852271 60177 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello joe. system working? < 1332852279 461765 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be < 1332852281 818601 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fine < 1332852309 780655 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-6-7. what we see here is a symbolic trace of the communications to and from the number analyzer. < 1332852342 722503 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll now dial an incorrect number < 1332852385 754956 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are starting to go wrong. we see here that something has gone wrong. an error has occurred. < 1332852395 117231 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the original error, which caused all the subsequent errors. < 1332852815 945848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you okau < 1332852816 793992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1332852919 843081 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1332852921 588643 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you < 1332853013 20717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1332853044 695039 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1332853191 195819 :cswords_!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332853194 881283 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1332853391 849184 :cswords!~cswords@c-98-223-234-80.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332853458 500503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what time is it for gods sake" does not elicit the appropriate response from Google. < 1332853577 458837 :derdon!~derdon@p4FD95C71.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332854010 188936 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: God's timezone is Unknowable. < 1332854661 787674 :GhostHand_!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1332854694 940463 :GhostHand_!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332855192 265734 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Does the question even make sense? < 1332855217 597935 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes/ < 1332855382 874634 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332855510 393381 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up the Haskell class like this: class Multiapply f v v' | f -> v, f -> v' where { (*$>) :: f -> v -> v'; multiid :: (v ~ v') => f; }; < 1332855541 395756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fundep is the same as f -> v v' < 1332855560 537707 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that's how it works. < 1332855602 542592 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The law is supposed to be (multiid *$>) = id but maybe there are supposed to be others too < 1332855710 439625 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.230.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332856048 168173 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332857287 188180 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332857361 652003 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332857426 67180 :boily!~boily@modemcable235.198-70-69.static.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1332857454 222484 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello every body < 1332857480 496162 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Anybody There < 1332857538 271268 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott,Are you here? < 1332857710 175344 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.230.217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello. < 1332857716 55060 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1332857784 839630 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude,which city are you < 1332857833 816973 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332857911 488224 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.230.217 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I have a high enough population to be a city. < 1332858011 563145 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: It's not the size that matters, it's how you administrate. < 1332858105 450286 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is the research of programming? < 1332858372 731761 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4db40aff.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332858373 81332 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db4e29b.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1332858373 668169 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4db40aff.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1332860209 373186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyone who uses their real name as their nick isnt a true internet geek < 1332860220 77976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so glad we have true internet geeks like t7 in #haskell. < 1332860476 468748 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.230.217 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1332861034 254492 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My girlfriend and I happened some unhappy things < 1332861094 572835 :GhostHand_!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1332861175 140720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1332861230 326312 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40aff.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd < 1332861326 22022 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f186.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332861441 490807 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1332861696 143229 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and mine too < 1332861706 442290 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday, that is < 1332862127 351905 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now just what the fuck is snack < 1332862203 199130 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the matter < 1332862994 954437 :boily!~boily@modemcable235.198-70-69.static.videotron.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1332863236 203377 :boily!~boily@modemcable235.198-70-69.static.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1332863809 102070 :boily!~boily@modemcable235.198-70-69.static.videotron.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1332864209 882537 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332864224 730299 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1332865300 975778 :cknz!~chicken@88-190-32-81.rev.dedibox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1332865428 292695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1332865445 843528 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now learning C < 1332865454 877455 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a bad idea? < 1332865471 971900 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you're using that book. < 1332865506 943158 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's listed on that page the nice folks in ##c linked me to! < 1332865554 529566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The folks in ##c are something like the opposite of nice. < 1332865568 849694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, you should really stay out of ##c entirely. < 1332865573 417815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Back me up here. < 1332865605 146939 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, whatever, I don't actually know anything about the book. < 1332865657 493782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they are not nice. < 1332865661 746134 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "hello world" program it gives is pretty obfuscated < 1332865668 515332 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or SO IT SEEMS < 1332865690 75770 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f186.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1332865696 84641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it look like? < 1332865713 916015 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/66070 < 1332865717 54978 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^that < 1332865730 285158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1332865733 895487 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the first program it shows you? < 1332865736 377635 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1332865739 499948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1332865741 397633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burn that book. < 1332865742 736527 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With that comment < 1332865746 46205 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "Back me up here", he says again. < 1332865773 30180 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this book is a family heirloom! < 1332865795 985229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems a stupid. < 1332865830 191939 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does say that the program won't make sense until Chapter 9 < 1332865832 281949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that program even legal? < 1332865844 169444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks dangerously close to UB to me. I think it's definitely endianness-dependent. < 1332865851 56964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, you don't want to read that book. < 1332865851 748772 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works on my system < 1332865858 512975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it might very well might. < 1332865863 782223 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I need to go very quickly < 1332865865 421749 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332865867 493512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proliferation of C programs that "work on your system" and are completely invalid is ... < 1332865876 939202 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I even start to type sentences greater than four words when Taneb is here? < 1332865882 625019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that the other is a char[] might be enough to make it legal, though I'm not entirely sure. It's certainly not portable. < 1332865937 521296 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329cde.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332865992 922276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "UB to read from a union member that was not the one you wrote to" rule is broad, but OTOH you can read everything via a char*. I suppose it depends on the exact way things were written. < 1332866048 550820 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me a second to realize you werent writing emails to members of some political union < 1332866119 212325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One hopes the book mentions the program is not portable, though. < 1332866316 401740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also implicit int and () for main is just bad manners, as is the lack of return. < 1332866446 372556 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I didn't even notice that. < 1332866479 762388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Taneb That book is *really* low-quality: http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-27#163107elliott onwards < 1332866480 108470 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1332866649 134151 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders who invented SIGPIPE < 1332866663 912779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the lack of #include does in fact make it UB. < 1332866677 97019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program that keeps on giving (reasons why it's bad). < 1332866697 256559 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The implicit declaration of printf is not the correct declaration.) < 1332866782 742763 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheesh. < 1332866799 344958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Taneb Seriously, don't read that. Pick up K&R or something. < 1332866799 618999 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1332866806 911538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Consult fizzie for adequate specifications of "something".) < 1332867149 763425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A person's name is not the title of a work — even if people call that person a piece of work" -- HTML specification < 1332867258 202826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Speaketh. < 1332867258 403778 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and, dab, words like pop-culture should use the binary level, then < 1332867259 554755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Speaketh. < 1332867259 716804 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: " so that the text, and i bless god for my safe, that he was overcome with the vastness, profundity, and fnord < 1332867260 349301 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Speaketh. < 1332867260 510921 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: or is it just me, or i: yet, you rogue! bitchin'! not much longer intervals. cia 1 56320-56335 in-between commands to run < 1332867261 9705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Speaketh. < 1332867267 731090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which styles give long text? < 1332867332 118834 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332867457 902820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1332867458 64506 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1332867460 984674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style alic < 1332867461 146297 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1332867461 683839 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style alice < 1332867461 845474 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll) < 1332867462 374432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: < 1332867464 590172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: a < 1332867469 190294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :( < 1332867548 227576 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do I block HTML5 video in Chromium? < 1332867584 696302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Don't visit any pages with HTML5 video on them. < 1332867586 546172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now say fungot. < 1332867599 192478 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1332867599 666993 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: " yes," he said. " do you believe in fate?" he exclaimed anxiously. " i'll fnord down a sheet of brown paper. " what will the warden--" < 1332867620 307261 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style europarl < 1332867620 468695 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) < 1332867621 701124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Parl. < 1332867623 138596 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, mr president-in-office of the council, president of the commission, i should just briefly like to focus on demand management measures as yet apply. so, we should ask what more we need to keep the dictator's hands away from weapons of mass destruction. that is very strange. but on the other side parliamentarians, who will soon be possible to deploy it quickly and above all to help the new institution in ad < 1332867625 214647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Parl. < 1332867626 292991 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is important for the european parliament, which is no such thing as absolute scientific certainty about new substances or products, nor can i accept amendment no 3. requirements for the provision of training and to provide for employees' representatives. it must also be viewed as a springboard for further action directed at the commission for the 1996 budget; the motion of censure. < 1332867629 243518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Parl. Shorter please. < 1332867630 38232 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: madam president, the nuclear safety of our citizens from any threat to it whatsoever. mr president, mrs soltwedel-schfer, where there is respect for parliamentary rules and the conference of presidents to lay down specific rules for these measures if this type of social security. < 1332867632 355128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you. < 1332867637 845115 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that's great. Not going to stop visiting YouTube, but can't figure out how to tell it "NO HTML5" < 1332867654 196220 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, HTML5 video < 1332867669 518196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/html5 < 1332867692 64797 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not IN the trial. I was, but now I'm not, I cleared cache, blah blah < 1332867697 445833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Okay, but now without non-Unicode. < 1332867698 139929 :fungot!~fungot@a91-152-37-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mr president, i think i have made to achieving our common aim is to identify those who make ringing declarations on the importance of preventing and combating euro counterfeiting. on the contrary, to show some willingness to compromise. < 1332867705 590717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Then you don't get HTML5 video. < 1332867711 543678 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, except I seem to < 1332867716 145679 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes at least < 1332867782 290449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, you know, like the wise men say: "Html5 Fail, better to use Flash, Html5 is ok to make website page, but for media it suxx, h.264 suxx more than Divx or Xvid in quality. Hope it will disapear on youtube." < 1332867821 770024 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML5 video crashes Chromium for me. < 1332867824 680927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Quite. < 1332867830 428065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Then fix that. < 1332867855 812013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "h.264 suxx more than Divx or Xvid in quality" is quite the statement. < 1332867860 692557 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Removed all tube cookies too? < 1332867882 544917 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1332867916 752688 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I only deleted cookies from youtube.com and www.youtube.com < 1332867943 719453 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's a generic term for the author of an IRC message? "Author" or "speaker" isn't good, since e.g. I refer also to the parter of a /part or the quitter of a /quit. < 1332867945 250451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Subject"? < 1332867954 412505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would probably call #esoteric the subject of this PRIVMSG. < 1332868114 693161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'unno. It could be "sender" except it isn't always that either. < 1332868126 236273 :GhostHand!~GhostHand@114.220.150.103 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332868152 174711 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the "guy" of the message. < 1332868177 592889 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :When would it not be the sender? < 1332868346 817595 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332868378 195539 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1332868378 490804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1332868419 856726 :tzxn3!~tzxn3@cpc5-mapp3-0-0-cust464.12-4.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1332868470 466016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it's a netsplit quit, it's arguably not. < 1332868557 516834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: We have said rude things about your book. :'( < 1332868574 795481 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1332868574 957510 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Client Quit < 1332868597 122651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well. < 1332868606 868712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's the IRC server sending it on behalf of them, isn't it? :) < 1332868611 988449 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the RFC say? I suppose I could check. < 1332868612 306746 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My school is having a vote on a new student government constitution < 1332868625 234758 :Sgeo_!~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be unethical for me and/or annoying for Agora to ask for Agora's input? < 1332868693 130309 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The book does acknowledge that program's system-dependedness < 1332868697 815212 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The printf thing, not so far < 1332868710 786092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I won't pass a value judgement, but I'd have to exercise greater-than-average restraint to avoid replying with a snarky comment. < 1332868717 711227 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fear of G. would probably be enough to do it, though. < 1332869218 204915 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enhancing my reputation of leaving suddenly... < 1332869221 588246 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-89-157.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Maybe Stew < 1332870128 844708 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332870191 886421 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332870204 323721 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1332870947 70438 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw, it's not hard to figure out what my IP is < 1332870973 509440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :abcdefghijklmnop < 1332870977 588702 :abcdefghijklmnop!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1332870989 54192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: was it you though? < 1332871106 708870 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1332871155 745935 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing the captcha is easier than logging in, if you only do one edit :) < 1332871237 963368 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :two! two edits < 1332871378 161846 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the first edit I did reset my old account's password, but apparently the session timed out or something before my second edit < 1332871826 498290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i emailed you a new password, hth < 1332871832 211911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1332871836 492254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it timed out after you set it < 1332871846 589223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, my snarky-but-helpful use of the login form turns into an annoyance < 1332871848 169995 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm terrible < 1332871863 60483 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may demand I ritually commit suicide < 1332871938 9397 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr < 1332872045 935519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm shit :D < 1332872051 599812 :MDude!~fyrc@67.232.230.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332872372 184880 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1332872393 222774 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332873183 667970 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1332873197 962817 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-d9329857.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332873198 287456 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329cde.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1332873198 917362 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-d9329857.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1332873203 618744 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1332874158 92061 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332874299 151713 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1332874717 600205 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332875190 879350 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1332875731 13201 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088180231.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1332876584 305142 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s5dfgIQQ3M < 1332876586 306323 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1332876680 315870 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I assume you've seen http://vimeo.com/1109226? < 1332876694 812298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMPUTER HARDWARE MUSIC: a diverse field. < 1332876742 652423 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1332876784 327496 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332877012 506969 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332877051 970783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1332877083 230952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1332877092 510680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am busy writing the best build system for C ever < 1332877099 539528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with potential support for other languages eventually, too < 1332877099 700795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1332877116 289413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, it works out all the dependencies for you, forwards and backwards < 1332877126 654295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that just ai-make? < 1332877138 297528 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except when it has no ability to do so, e.g. if you want to build a library, it can't guess where the entry points you want are < 1332877140 484181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's called aimake :) < 1332877169 51636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the information required is mostly in the files < 1332877174 109547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :header files have #includes, you can trace those < 1332877185 903139 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and object files you can run nm on them to see what they import and export, and work out the dependencies that way < 1332877201 976949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if ais523 realises he's told us about aimake before. < 1332877207 862916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have < 1332877213 133442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now I'm actually /writing/ it < 1332877244 407930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO writing. < 1332877262 19943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You've earned the "Good Answer" badge for Can you recognize an infinite list in a Haskell program?." < 1332877267 257174 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have 25 people upvoted that in one day? < 1332877305 440086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, obviously, halting problem < 1332877327 575358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can in OCaml because there are only a finite number of possible types of infinite list; although I'm not sure if you can do it using only constructs in the language < 1332877348 500626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I obviously didn't know the answer, seeing as how I answered the question, and all. < 1332877367 59630 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1332877392 358965 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-046-005-248-025.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1332877397 818225 :azaq23!~derivecto@HSI-KBW-046-005-248-025.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Changing host < 1332877397 979746 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332877450 318206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1332877495 328801 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses "estimate the weight of the fruitcake" < 1332877529 808423 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1332877645 769893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:55:41: Why exactly is W = \x.\y.x(yy) not a bck term? < 1332877645 931779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:58:16: In x(yy) y occurs more than "at most once" < 1332877645 932023 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:58:38: although the definition here says "for subterms \x.M" and x(yy) does not look like it has the form "\x.M" < 1332877683 850121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure it should be something like "at most once in M for subterms \x.M" < 1332877698 299516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so M = x(yy) counts < 1332877708 548945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and x = y >:P < 1332877785 804794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the important point being, for each binding lambda \x.M there is at most once use of x referring to that binding < 1332877789 379117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one < 1332877923 854564 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:32:24: `pastelogs itidus21 company < 1332877938 105328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :those commands take regexps, not individual words < 1332878007 132472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you expect itidus21 to learn regular expressions? < 1332878017 577922 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case it was easier to just check the logs directly than that < 1332878050 195050 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hey _some_ information is bound to get through < 1332878060 848493 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(y|n)(e|o)(s|) < 1332878100 78381 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can now construct the whole family of yes and no < 1332878171 326345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1332878251 436855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i am not convinced we have communicated 1 bit of information to itidus21 in his time here. < 1332878289 258005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1332878338 827283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe fasting, who knows < 1332878361 329233 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1332878365 193007 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes|no) < 1332878376 793269 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes more sense >.> < 1332878389 227030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: see, he's learning :P < 1332878425 518756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even random walks progress occasionally < 1332878429 300670 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I might have confused free occurences with free variables < 1332878449 94603 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x.x < 1332878451 741746 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^- free < 1332878458 458398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly i'm almost convinced this spiel of "itidus21 can't learn" is a self-fulfilling prophecy, no matter _who_ encourages it. < 1332878459 382453 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^- bound < 1332878498 661252 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you realise we spent the first N months of itidus21 being here denying him when he said things of that nature and pointing out exactly how much of a self-fulfilling prophecy it is. < 1332878525 986745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he insists on believing it, there is no point expending extraordinary effort to tell him otherwise. < 1332878581 640758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there can still be a point in not helping to entrench it, no? < 1332878659 401528 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so \y.x(yy) has one free variable x and two free occurences of y and one binding occurence of y. < 1332878708 870556 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hope so, at least :)) < 1332878752 619170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: um i don't think there are any free occurences of y in \y.x(yy). < 1332878761 642249 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1332878809 832402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there _is_ fundamentally a difference between free variable and free occurrence. < 1332878858 668977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, note that y is free _in the subexpression_ x(yy) < 1332878906 320165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to take this opportunity to complain about the teaching of lambda calculus with explicit shuffling of names like this, which has surely caused an absurd number of students to confuse the syntactic bookkeeping with the true essence. < 1332878923 694755 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does that fall under the definiton of "subterm \x.M"? < 1332878964 894433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: no, but that _could_ be a typo < 1332878982 46229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some part of the phrasing < 1332879018 317490 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i) for each subterm \x.M of Y, x occurs free in M at most once < 1332879033 684028 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Y=P < 1332879059 772802 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the rest of this sentence makes no sense @typo < 1332879134 763523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: that looks correct, note that \y.x(yy) is a subterm < 1332879156 244719 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a _proper_ subterm, though < 1332879210 838225 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but \y.x(yy) does not violate the definition of a BCK Term < 1332879216 980435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :y occurs free in x(yy) _twice_ < 1332879225 883031 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1332879229 87842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus \y.x(yy) is not a BCK term. < 1332879260 679054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you're not misreading the term "at most once", are you? < 1332879276 962285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means twice or more is prohibited < 1332879316 427899 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332879423 750595 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what "at most once" means, yes ;) < 1332879468 162426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: note that the "x occurs free in M" is really just a roundabout way of saying that in \x.M, it occurs bound to _that_ binding of x, and not to some deeper one. < 1332879469 230367 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition is very misleading. < 1332879522 953275 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if I have no \x, how would I know which thing must not occure more than once. < 1332879523 980398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: as i said, it looks correct to me < 1332879556 536174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: um if there are no lambdas, then there is no restriction. < 1332879583 942511 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic. < 1332879596 978538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says that for every variable binding \x (where x is an arbitrary variable), _that_ binding is not used more than once. < 1332879666 837292 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition of BCI terms is misleading in the same way < 1332879686 207293 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with "exactly once", iirc < 1332879688 277994 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in \xy.x x occurs in every subterm exactly once < 1332879707 107171 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it does in \y.x as well as in x) < 1332879707 586593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has it been long enough since my last complaint for me to complain again? < 1332879726 592154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This "free variable" stuff is such nonsense, really. < 1332879745 520553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: no, it doesn't occur in every subterm. for every subterm _of the form_ \x.M, x occurs exactly once in M. < 1332879778 683799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no looking at more than one subterm of \x.M for that binding. < 1332879799 49892 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GET THE FEELING MY COMPLAINTS ARE BEING DISREGARDED :'( < 1332879836 470185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah yeah go worship deBruijn < 1332879849 487766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's dead, so maybe you can get him canonized. < 1332879859 830549 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... this time it HAS to be \x.M and not just M as in BCK? < 1332879875 290261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: it's exactly the same way for BCK < 1332879877 963090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HOAS is acceptable too! < 1332879882 618240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly, at least. < 1332879915 986895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is hoas < 1332879979 117741 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: higher-order abstract syntax < 1332879992 6896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Term = App Term Term | Lam (Term -> Term) or such < 1332880017 737679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :commonly something like `data Term a = App (Term a) (Term a) | Lam (Term a -> Term a) | Var a` so you can print them < 1332880017 898972 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-195-118.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332880019 630213 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-219-235-20.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1332880019 852283 :graue!~sf@c-75-72-201-81.hsd1.mn.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332880026 190727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it works better in some contexts than others < 1332880034 431072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it's pretty bad in haskell because that (->) can do anything to the term < 1332880045 721246 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realises that oerjan might know what higher-order abstract syntax is, just not "HOAS". < 1332880057 29430 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1332880057 191270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_abstract_syntax :P < 1332880068 870054 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :\y.x has no free occurence of y < 1332880088 457993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_or_ bound. < 1332880145 847911 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, thanks. < 1332880227 812325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1332880237 794087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :data term a = Var a | App (Term a) (Term a) | Term (forall b. Term b -> Term a) < 1332880239 118694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be better < 1332880240 930854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Lam (forall < 1332880244 891595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stops the lambda messing with the vars < 1332880259 854787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think oerjan is ignoring me now :) < 1332880323 887985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that "refers directly to the binding site" reminds me of when i read bourbaki's set theory (one of the first books i found in the university library) < 1332880330 638694 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOAS is the Helsinki area student-housing foundation thing. < 1332880363 46248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :its predicate logic notation had _actual_ lines from use to binding < 1332880373 573942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh < 1332880494 59868 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4d0b6b15.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332880494 542217 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329857.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1332880495 87217 :hagb4rd2!~perdito@koln-4d0b6b15.pool.mediaWays.net NICK :hagb4rd < 1332880539 197712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my favourite representation is probably { data Term a = Var a | Apply (Term a) (Term a) | Lam (Term (Maybe a)) } < 1332880558 325603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because (1) it has a wonderful monadic structure: (>>=) takes a lambda and a "dictionary" and substitutes < 1332880561 545629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1332880566 820039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) "Term Void" is a term with no free variables < 1332880577 866217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: e.g. id is Lam (Var Nothing) < 1332880585 275999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :K is Lam (Lam (Var (Just Nothing))) < 1332880589 400957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's typed de bruijn, essentially < 1332880601 646473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1332880639 679315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's another argument for (>>=) being theoretically interesting instead of simply useful in practice) < 1332880667 194167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to fmap+join, I mean) < 1332880712 492523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1332880728 371476 :nortti!~androirc@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: nortti < 1332880757 299016 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although fmap does variable renaming, no < 1332880779 455209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1332880795 532519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, fmap is interesting in its own right here, it's just that (>>=) has a more obvious meaning than join < 1332880814 176807 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1332881778 939424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : "what time is it for gods sake" does not elicit the appropriate response from Google. < 1332881782 28469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1332881817 459413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 13800000 days -> years < 1332881831 572051 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :37783.147856566566615 < 1332881883 463061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> .147856566566615 * 365.2425 < 1332881883 729437 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332881884 355965 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `.' < 1332881888 199871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0.147856566566615 * 365.2425 < 1332881889 66165 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 54.00350201420688 < 1332881927 935542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 February, year 37783, hth < 1332881962 541495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi monqy < 1332882004 986129 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1332882008 862668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of W|A's sidebar ads said to me something like "speak to W|A in your own language" and "OMG, just plot sin(x)" as an example. < 1332882033 272101 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :w|a's sidebar ads are awful < 1332882102 477775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : now just what the fuck is snack <-- BEST PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE HTH < 1332882114 526955 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1332882114 704198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, @lang has a name? < 1332882121 384982 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-57.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was asking what i should eat for dinner. < 1332882122 439341 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we can go backwards from that to work out @'s < 1332882131 962966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg just plot sin(x) monqy thanks < 1332882133 829071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for elliott's terrible revenge on ais523  < 1332882145 631449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? it was a complement < 1332882154 35826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :snack is the complement of @lang, indeed < 1332882166 451768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (TAKIN' HINTS FROM THE MASTER HERE) < 1332882177 644762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WHAT DID YOU DO TO [[SNACK]] < 1332882180 915829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep on, grasshopper < 1332882186 538403 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vandal! < 1332882197 239072 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i thought you were here when i did it... < 1332882209 165052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... i might have been < 1332882213 565322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i was paying attention to the wiki, though < 1332882231 584309 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you _did_ notice my previous edit to that fishy thing < 1332882242 350442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so since i was on a roll.. < 1332882251 734031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that fishy thing isn't in [[Category:Shameful]] :P < 1332882266 346414 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although maybe it should be.) < 1332882309 88631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i just made a nice table and a section header, or so. < 1332882324 970610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the remarkable prose style in unchanged. < 1332882329 647443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1332882362 393007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i already categorised it. < 1332882374 781772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel i even preserved it when introducing the table headings < 1332882435 417030 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still breaks suspension of disbelief to believe that the creator of the language could effectively use an attractive wikitable. but i'm not so pathetic as to holy-war over the authenticity of modifications to a terrible language's article :P < 1332882938 953486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how to explode < 1332882958 745772 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1332882964 16582 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one of the many mysteries of life < 1332883056 464143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1332883279 759467 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way to end ones life is go on tv and elaborate all of ones beliefs and opinions about politics, sex, religion, and foreign heads of state < 1332883358 196571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/best/most efficient/, hth < 1332883994 559604 :augur_!~augur@129.2.129.33 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332884392 97725 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1332884446 113427 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, at least that particular ad is accurate; entering "OMG, just plot sin(x)" does work. < 1332884609 921844 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you think (>>=) has a more obvious meaning than join? Perhaps it depends which monad you mean < 1332884618 489084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking specifically about the Term monad there. < 1332884696 467846 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK how does the Term monad work? < 1332884806 612455 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think return = Var < 1332884839 257381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :return = Var; Var a >>= f = f a; Apply g x >>= f = Apply (g >>= f) (x >>= f); Lam e >>= f = Lam (fmap (>>= f) e) -- i might have gotten the last clause wrong < 1332884866 940690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically if you have a term with free variables (e.g. of type Term (Maybe (Maybe Void)), thus having two free variables), then (tm >>= dict) will substitute them away < 1332884875 72006 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1332884892 477625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can imagine dict :: Maybe (Maybe Void) -> Term Void; dict Nothing = term1; dict (Just Nothing) = term2; dict (Just (Just v)) = absurd v < 1332885097 866594 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would be join (Apply g x) = join (Apply g) (Apply x); join (Lam e) = Lam (join <$> e); well that look like to make sense to me, although I am unsure of the last one. Exactly what is the definition of the Lam constructor? A bunch of different things are posted above < 1332885129 800211 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: my favourite representation is probably { data Term a = Var a | Apply (Term a) (Term a) | Lam (Term (Maybe a)) } < 1332885130 547557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one < 1332885140 709323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's actually < 1332885142 565499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fmap (>>= f) . e < 1332885162 928931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the definition for both is simple enough, it's just that (>>=) has an obvious semantic meaning (substitute variables) where join doesn't < 1332885181 920595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure - reference variable; fmap - rename variables; (>>=) - substitute variables < 1332885193 880160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to pure - reference variable; fmap - rename variables; join - ??? < 1332885205 208559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh, and I forget what exactly (<*>) does here... but anyway, brb) < 1332885252 324047 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1332885590 929393 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suppose it is simply a feature of the (->) category that causes (<*>) to work with all monads (even though I want to define applicatives in terms of liftPair, which seems to be called $m_{A,B}$ in some Wikipedia article) < 1332885650 742923 :Patashu!Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1332885698 125139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: (->) being cartesian closed, probably < 1332885732 602206 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I thought it might be something like that < 1332885791 741676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :making a -> (b -> c) essentially isomorphic to (a, b) -> c < 1332885875 395633 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1332886486 695393 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, so is closed cartesian ~ currying works? < 1332886517 491935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it implies that, at least < 1332886536 122938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :callforjudgement < 1332886589 299192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In category theory, a category is cartesian closed if, roughly speaking, any morphism defined on a product of two objects can be naturally identified with a morphism defined on one of the factors." < 1332886603 521076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say that's pretty much a yes. < 1332886622 281942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1332886625 194345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: :( < 1332886636 704644 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can they make INTERCAL accept the words "FOWER", "FIFE", and "THOUSAND" in inputs? O, and, do they support Latin spellings of inputs? < 1332886656 709197 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think at least one port accepts Latin numerals < 1332886662 873931 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other words, you could add, but I'm not going to < 1332886682 184553 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1332886883 290724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, quick insanity check: does it make sense that a config file is only a single data object rather than containing malicious commands, when some of the things in the data objects are strings that are intended to be interpreted as shell commands and run? < 1332886961 288961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick no... < 1332886993 748932 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sense to check" < 1332887011 404710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if it is, because putting actual code in the config file wouldn't be interpreted as expected anyway < 1332887046 190264 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check it anyways regardless, so that at least you can learn it < 1332887050 763945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :exploits don't need to be based on expected behavior, do they? < 1332887096 295463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't parse ais523's question < 1332887102 542713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thinks it suggests he's doing something wrong < 1332887136 265059 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"validate input roughly --> pass to trusted thing" <<< "parse input --> write input for trusted thing" < 1332887213 913160 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawful good people shouldn't write security code anyway. < 1332887256 431940 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan++ < 1332887270 786585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if he was joking. < 1332887384 456546 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only half joking - my idea is that you need to be able to think like a cracker to thwart one. < 1332887396 550329 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1332887419 16055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, there's a reason you see a lot of crackers end up joining big companies to do security work. < 1332887422 499264 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hielliott < 1332887456 572032 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you hate me today? < 1332887467 921159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : NOT MORE THAN USUAL < 1332887477 493689 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1332887495 116559 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Sgeo_ you should be mad at. < 1332887518 649930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, it's more that the securing is pointless because it's something that doesn't need exploiting because its intended purpose is to run user-specified shell commands < 1332887526 953508 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why are you validating it? < 1332887535 189268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case it's invalid, I guess < 1332887541 785069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I _want_ to run malicious commands? < 1332887547 176673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "invalid"? < 1332887554 595366 :Mathnerd314__!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332887580 720285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically, the situation is that I'm using Perl's object notation for config files because I'm trying not to depend on any of CPAN, and I don't want to write my own YAML or JSON parser < 1332887590 406485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I felt a bit queasy just running it through eval < 1332887604 886333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is to depend on CPAN < 1332887617 564348 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1332887629 943193 :Mathnerd314__!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1332887645 970794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, then it won't be the best build system ever < 1332887671 658748 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on who is running the program, and why, and what stuff exactly the configuration file is meant to do, using eval might be OK < 1332887675 142260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was aiming for 1 dependency on Win32, 0 on POSIXy systems < 1332887702 214382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think it can be done with 0 dependencies on Win32) < 1332887717 324808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that means relying on a scripting language that's portable and ready-installed everywhere on POSIX, and easy to install on Windows < 1332887723 651223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically drives the choice down to Perl or Python < 1332887733 646582 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWK? < 1332887759 729455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the best build system ever wouldn't be written in either of those < 1332887761 41315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by definition < 1332887763 761742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: awk's a bit awkward for this sort of system < 1332887769 560817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not convinced < 1332887774 311047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also wouldn't run on win32 < 1332887779 997949 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C? < 1332887788 709386 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: compile to Perl or Python, done < 1332887796 265391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: C needs a build system, you need to avoid recursion here < 1332887808 657185 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, yes. < 1332887810 673217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise you can write one more makefile in your life without dying, right? < 1332887811 187844 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b6b15.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1332887811 349234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or the build system needs its own separate build system, which is silly < 1332887814 335572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: @lang can't be compiled to perl or python < 1332887840 109903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right; but I don't know if my users can run it correctly < 1332887855 865363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who gives a fuck about users? < 1332887858 204314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's surprisingly hard to write a correct makefile < 1332887859 611105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do! < 1332887862 163698 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's @lang? < 1332887866 618385 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use a simple shell script to compile C programs < 1332887897 655301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pictures ais523's tombstone: "HE MADE ONE MAKEFILE TOO MANY" < 1332887900 394093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: perfect < 1332887906 866376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :context: I'm trying to replace an inherited cmake-based build system because this specific build script doesn't work properly on Linux (recompiles from scratch no matter what) or at all on OS X, for currently unclear reasons < 1332887942 119921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, this is also an attempt to write a build system for C, I forgot to clarify that < 1332887948 537958 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why is @lang perfect? < 1332887951 235228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sufficiently good languages don't need build systems, just a compiler < 1332887959 365206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: it's perfect by definition, the problem is trying to construct it < 1332887964 49861 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most portable programming language is probably TeX although it is probably not suitable for your purpose. < 1332887971 333238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well, you know how all other languages have these pesky problems that make them bad? < 1332887973 491718 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@lang has none of that < 1332887973 732309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1332887982 671338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: seriously? does it run out of the box on Windows or VMS? < 1332888009 896670 :derdon!~derdon@p4FD95C71.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332888013 948971 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You just need a TeX distribution, and then it will run on any operating system. < 1332888030 987877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, and you need to build it, and so on < 1332888052 765879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you realise Windows users use binaries? < 1332888058 752695 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and you don't count "missing compiler that outputs Perl" as a problem? < 1332888068 67135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the build system can build TeX, then it could build a program written in C < 1332888078 406721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: have you *seen* Perl? < 1332888080 711967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and it's possible to bundle Perl into binaries for Windows < 1332888102 7779 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is written in Pascal, though. Usually it is still compiled with a C compiler though, but there are TeX distributions that use a Pascal compiler. < 1332888102 707105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't reasonably put a Windows binary into a source tarball and keep it updated; it'd be pretty large < 1332888152 230124 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree; don't put a Windows binary into a source tarball. Put it in a separate file which is ZIP < 1332888157 560392 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, I see nothing worse than LLVM < 1332888184 880887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: have you *seen* LLVM? < 1332888187 237695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I'm writing it in Perl 5.10 < 1332888191 416293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have /you/? < 1332888202 339247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously looked at its internals thinking about gcc-bf, it is so nastily inflexible < 1332888235 779465 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think LLVM is not such a bad programming language, although it would be good with macros (such as Lisp or BLISS style macros) < 1332888252 222369 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen BLISS? I happen to like some of the features of BLISS too < 1332888371 133234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you disagreeing with me? < 1332888375 892958 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1332888399 207222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Why is there no Contravoid such that (Contravoid -> r) ~ Void for all r? < 1332888427 32319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I would also accept a Contravoid such that (Contravoid -> T) ~ Void for some T. < 1332888433 662469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(T =/= Contravoid, presumably.) < 1332888480 455295 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you consider -> to be an exponent then perhaps it can be understand? < 1332888495 364646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because \x -> undefined != undefined, hth. < 1332888499 69610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But it's annoying. :( < 1332888500 744412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Forget that. < 1332888503 33319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Forget about _|_. < 1332888514 554264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: I would also accept a Contravoid such that (Contravoid -> T) ~ Void for some T. < 1332888518 49295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some inhabited T, I should say. < 1332888522 299626 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :One feature of BLISS is that a variable name in an expression represents the address of the variable, rather than its value. Another feature is that structures are allowed to contain program instructions too < 1332888572 277082 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if x \in r, const x \in (Contravoid -> r) < 1332888573 719189 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Annoying? How? < 1332888592 919938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know, because I haven't been able to figure out what your opinion is so far < 1332888599 971239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm stating mine, so you can either agree or disagree with it < 1332888618 69343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thank you, I'm not so much of an idiot to require a constructive proof < 1332888630 684894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1332888661 323855 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332888662 308630 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but it's annoying! < 1332888669 549095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has to change to make that exist? < 1332888681 502701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, if you have linear typing stuff, then you just need Contravoid to be a type with no eliminators < 1332888685 709840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make Void inhabited. hth. < 1332888694 393526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away < 1332888696 683778 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1332888697 393913 :Mathnerd314_!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1332888702 7840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can't discard it, and can't eliminate it, there'll be no functions of that type < 1332888726 756330 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a Contravoid? < 1332888730 141820 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what law of this class is supposed to be (other than (multiid *$>) = id)? class Multiapply f v v' | f -> v, f -> v' where { (*$>) :: f -> v -> v'; multiid :: (v ~ v') => f; }; And do you know how common are things like what is used in the type signature for multiid? < 1332888742 34861 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (the reason I wonder is because with the pipes stuff, a sink (i.e. something that takes input and produces a result, but doesn't send anything downstream) can have its output type set to Void) < 1332888744 316025 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I want to ask the same question too < 1332888748 56455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (so it can't yield anything) < 1332888755 773713 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: zzo38 wants to ask the same question too < 1332888774 691356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (but a source (which takes no input and produces values downstream and a result) has to have input set to ()) < 1332888787 90253 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (since it's impossible to stop you using the IWantInput (anInput -> AnotherPipeEtc) constructor) < 1332888797 142320 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: type such that Contravoid -> T ~ Void < 1332888804 162280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For some inhabited T.) < 1332888822 441241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: okay < 1332888828 793886 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonsense. < 1332888833 922434 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :1^x = 0? < 1332888835 345127 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i guess that linear thing is satisfying enough < 1332888850 227908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if there already _is_ a concept of something with no "eliminators" in that sense in normal linear logic. < 1332888859 130238 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :linear logic is _very_ symmetric < 1332888859 813756 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: And yes I know that is impossible, something I have thought of too < 1332888888 819741 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think elliott has /ignored me. < 1332888898 761521 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tragic < 1332888900 867429 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1332888901 572758 :Mathnerd314!~chatzilla@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: more like k^x for k>0 < 1332888902 475781 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that meant to imply "yes, probably"? < 1332888908 915190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: something like that < 1332888917 947070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, maybe that's 1 < 1332888924 91384 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 0 is the uninhabited type i'm expecting it to be < 1332888935 195298 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... or ⊤ or ⊥ < 1332888940 276427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand the difference, naturally < 1332888975 548565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think it might be 1 < 1332889068 192888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, a |- b is equivalent to ~b |- ~a (and to a, ~b |- _|_ and 1 |- ~a, b iirc, _everything_ can be moved across to the other side of the sequent by negating it) < 1332889088 228806 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Ibtlfmm (currently a codename), the uninhabited type is called 0, and Word8 is now called Nat8, and Maybe is now called a successor monad; is it better? < 1332889091 713277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Where is the C-INTERCAL supplemental reference manual? < 1332889121 385080 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1332889138 205140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose classical logic also does that, but not intuitionistic logic < 1332889511 159707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: supplemental? I only know of revised and revamped < 1332889522 51107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was supplemental the original? < 1332889630 901702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not sure < 1332889634 487901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the -72 manual < 1332889639 60010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia references it, and it's a deadlink < 1332889662 617368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference the one on ESR's site, I guess < 1332889667 889089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably the one it wants < 1332889725 462564 :augur!~augur@pool-96-231-121-183.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1332889814 401090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, maybe tomorrow < 1332890176 842552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK, this is the real instance: < 1332890178 595652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Monad Term where < 1332890178 757089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return = Var < 1332890178 757275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Var a >>= f = f a < 1332890178 757377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Apply g x >>= f = Apply (g >>= f) (x >>= f) < 1332890178 757479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Abstract e >>= f = Abstract (e >>= maybe (return Nothing) (fmap Just . f)) < 1332890187 898607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably there's an easier way to write that last clause < 1332890193 372858 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.249 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1332890285 582587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what beta-reduction looks like but it's a one-liner with the monad interface < 1332890411 717117 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to define the Abstract constructor too < 1332890424 515444 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nonsense. _|_ === const _|_ < 1332890430 286979 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, oerjan? < 1332890463 345247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1332890513 246706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Are you furthering your campaign of bothering me about things I said in other channels by going a step further and not actually bothering to read what I say before doing it? < 1332890521 194307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I just renamed Lam to Abstract. < 1332890526 84166 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1332890550 537125 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Huh? < 1332890566 263657 :shachaf!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You said that safeDivide = _|_ is different from safeDivide = \x y -> _|_ < 1332890651 129775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, if you think that (\x y -> if y == 0 then x else ⊥) is ⊥. < 1332890651 900913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (const undefined `seq` "yeah", undefined `seq` "sure") < 1332890652 779989 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("yeah","*Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1332890751 448345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is (\x y -> ⊥). < 1332891599 853280 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@TOMayorFord This guy at the dog park is pretending to be an 80s businessman on his phone. No way ppl actually talk like this. He's faking! about 2 hours ago \\ LOOK GUYS I JUST WANTED TO TELL THE MAYOR OF TORONTO ABOUT THIS DOG PARK GUY. TWITTER IS HARD. I'M IN OVER MY HEAD HERE about 2 hours ago < 1332891600 128587 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1332891775 556764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RocketJSquirrel: what < 1332892024 526636 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of Graphics.Gloss.Picture.Picture then use something like this: class (Alternative f, MonadPlus f) => IsPicture f where { convexPolygon :: Path -> f x; thickLine :: Float -> Path -> f x; thickArc :: Float -> Float -> Float -> f x; translate :: Float -> Float -> f x -> f x; rotate :: Float -> f x -> f x; scale :: Float -> Float -> f x -> f x; recolor :: (Color -> Color) -> f x -> f x; }; < 1332892392 445799 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Together with the mathematical laws that recolor is a functor, scale and rotate and translate follow the laws of Euclidean geometry, and to be known that the input ranges of the other functions should always be in range < 1332892396 380713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: btw i saw yesterday there was a new version of gloss out < 1332892407 946821 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes I saw that too < 1332892445 550125 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did add playIO, but it still does not support return values, and Rotate is still clockwise (even though it should be counterclockwise in the opinion of myself and others) < 1332892556 311695 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion of it? < 1332892568 640206 :RocketJSquirrel!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Web comic artist tries to tweet the mayor of Toronto about Dog Park Guy. < 1332892739 807444 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, mathematics is usually done counterclockwise, isn't it? (Horoscopes are also done counterclockwise but that isn't the point)