00:00:07 calamari: does Phantom_Hoover know 00:00:13 calamari: because i mean 00:00:20 calamari: i'd keep a close eye on yr brain for a while 00:00:25 you never know when he might swap it for a brick 00:00:35 Does PH know I made a BF derivative? 00:00:39 * Sgeo is scared 00:01:06 Sgeo with all due respect i think phs opinion on the matter would be that nothing needs to be done to complete the brainbricking procedure 00:01:24 here's mine http://esolangs.org/wiki/BitChanger 00:01:30 ! 00:02:44 How easy is it to use PSOX with BitChangeer 00:02:47 BIt~hnar 00:02:50 BitChanger 00:03:29 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:03:30 i 00:03:39 me too 00:03:42 calamari: whoa, that predates Ook! 00:03:46 when was the first bf derivative? 00:03:52 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:04:03 1964 00:04:09 :D 00:04:14 hehe 00:04:34 do we know whether Urban knew about P''? 00:07:56 elliott: No, but I refuse to believe that he did. 00:08:17 here's an email i sent to B Nomic once http://sprunge.us/UXbU 00:09:07 I think that was after "if you're obligated to twiddle some state it gets automatically twiddled" or something was introduced 00:10:07 * Sgeo whats at all the text. 00:10:17 me too 00:10:21 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 00:10:29 it's a BF program 00:10:56 Sgeo: I never actually used BitChanger for anything .. and it predates PSOX, because I created EsoAPI in 2005 and PSOX was inspired by EsoAPI 00:11:37 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:12:10 has anyone used psox for anything 00:13:38 I don't know.. I made EsoAPI because I needed something for bos 00:13:55 monqy, there's the wget.b that pikhq wrote 00:14:02 Does that count as using it for anything? 00:14:11 which was a brainfuck os that I fit inside a floppy boot sector 00:18:10 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 00:18:51 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:20:27 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 00:24:27 "Nobody apart from ehird can join this contract." <- so selfish 00:24:55 who is ehird 00:24:57 hi ehird 00:24:59 ehird 00:25:02 coïncidence????? 00:25:12 elliott hi rd 00:25:45 my brain now autoconverts rd to rainbow dash 00:26:02 elliott hi rainbow dash 00:26:06 hi rainbow, dash 00:26:09 hi monqy 00:28:48 hi shachaf, monqy 00:29:05 hi Sgeo, monqy, shachaf, monqy, monqy, monqy 00:29:48 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 00:30:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:37:10 kmc: elliott wants a book title. 00:37:47 what book? 00:38:05 Real World Haskell 00:38:06 shachaf, clearly, hi 00:38:10 What's its title, man? 00:38:16 Does anybody *know*? 00:38:24 Where is the lid? 00:38:26 Where is the lid? 00:38:28 Where is the 00:38:30 Where is the 00:38:34 Where is the liiiiid? 00:38:41 h 00:38:41 hello 00:38:43 Webscale Quantum Parallel Haskell: A practical approach 00:39:26 Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphisms for Dummies 00:40:00 crash test dummies, that is 00:40:03 how about just a pamphlet listing the haskell inside jokes 00:40:09 so you can be in the #haskell cool kidz klub 00:43:57 kmc: I expect there are more #haskell inside jokes than there are actual things to learn about Haskell. 00:44:07 So such a book would probably be longer than a real Haskell book. 00:44:28 I don't think there's much variety. 00:46:13 Does Goldilocks count as an inside joke? 00:47:04 kmc: You sound bitter. 00:47:48 lol shachaf 00:48:05 kmc?? bitter about #haskell??? 00:48:06 never 00:50:45 elliott: what does that nomic program do? i'm too lazy 00:51:25 quintopia: Hello, world, I think. 00:51:30 (why did you not add a Program attribute and have the step reference that in a fetch-execute cycle so you could just say "Program is blah") 00:51:53 @quote goldilocks 00:51:53 No quotes match. 00:52:03 :( 00:52:04 quintopia: that's easier for people to work out 00:52:11 B was a game of logical hand grenades 00:53:58 Do you know the Goldilock's method to generate ability scores? I have wrote a program for it on my calculator, to work with Dungeons&Dragons, but it can also be used with Icosahedral RPG 00:54:11 elliott: What is a game of logical hand grenades? 00:55:29 -!- derdon_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:55 zzo38: B Nomic. 00:56:24 "Zygohistomorphic Prepromorphisms for Crash Test Dummies: The Practical Approach" 01:09:14 oerjan, what did Goldilocks say when she saw "Maybe (b -> Either a b)"? 01:09:47 Sgeo: I have seen that one too 01:10:04 Sgeo: Nothing 01:10:08 * oerjan runs away 01:10:12 oerjan++ 01:10:13 zzo38, yes, because I made it 01:11:51 we really 01:11:52 don't need to 01:11:54 see it 01:11:55 another 01:11:55 time 01:11:57 :( 01:15:58 is it ok if i give up giving up hi i really want to say hi now so bad 01:16:01 is that wrong 01:16:12 wrong that is 01:16:16 bad so now hi say 01:16:21 The Britain/UK/Crown/Commonwealth thing is so complicated, even elliott doesn't understand it. 01:16:24 sgeo deserves it 01:16:25 monqy: it's wrong 01:16:31 monqy: shh 01:16:32 you can mock Sgeo by 01:16:34 i don't know 01:16:34 monqy: How can it be wrong when it feels so hi? 01:17:32 hi monqy 01:17:44 hi :( 01:17:55 :( 01:18:02 @hi lambdabot 01:18:04 No match for "lambdabot". 01:18:08 @hi 01:18:10 @botsnack 01:18:10 :) 01:18:22 @where hi 01:18:22 I know nothing about hi. 01:18:29 monqy: teach lambdabot about hi :( 01:20:19 :( 01:30:31 hi 01:31:10 ih 01:37:22 @hic 01:37:22 Maybe you meant: bid dice dict ghc id rc src 01:38:25 @hi 01:38:35 @hi test 01:38:35 No match for "test". 01:38:41 @id test 01:38:42 test 01:38:57 @h test 01:38:57 Maybe you meant: hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ . ? @ v 01:39:10 * oerjan confused 01:39:23 @ghc test 01:39:23 No quotes match. Are you on drugs? 01:39:34 @hi . 01:39:34 No match for ".". 01:39:54 @bid test 01:39:54 Can't find 'test' 01:40:05 @hit test 01:40:06 No match for "test". 01:40:14 @dict test 01:40:14 Supported dictionary-lookup commands: 01:40:14 all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02 01:40:14 Use "dict-help [cmd...]" for more. 01:40:34 @hist test 01:40:34 No module "test" loaded 01:40:40 @ball-dicks 01:41:02 O_o 01:41:24 Initialising ball dicks... 01:41:33 @_@ 01:41:42 Ball dick data file required 01:41:44 @hint test 01:41:44 Maybe you meant: dict kind list ping 01:41:52 @list test 01:41:52 No module "test" loaded 01:42:02 What are you doing, oerjan? 01:42:07 You should stop that. 01:42:15 WAAAA 01:42:23 Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess? 01:42:47 * oerjan swats kmc and shachaf -----### 01:43:02 @chess 01:43:03 : parse error (possibly incorrect indentation) 01:43:13 Now, now. What are you swatting them for? 01:43:45 @hitp test 01:43:45 help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands 01:43:50 fancy 01:44:01 @hip test 01:44:02 Maybe you meant: bid help id map 01:44:06 Hey! 01:44:11 @map test 01:44:11 I won't listen to any more commands until you talk to me. 01:44:21 @run 2+2 01:44:26 > 2+2 01:44:38 :'( 01:44:46 I'm so lonely. 01:44:51 Won't you be my friend? 01:44:56 * oerjan swats kmc and shachaf again -----### 01:45:02 Pretty please? 01:45:03 lambdabot: okay 01:45:06 Yay! 01:45:13 Okay, you can continue. 01:45:18 Friend! 01:45:56 I like how oerjan has now given four swattings to other people for something I did. 01:47:11 I get the feeling this silence is a prelude to oerjan kicking me or something. 01:48:57 @lip test 01:48:57 Maybe you meant: bid id let list map slap 01:49:05 @hop test 01:49:05 Maybe you meant: do help map show yow 01:49:15 @hot test 01:49:15 Maybe you meant: do ft let show vote what yow 01:49:19 Did I get out of swatting? 01:49:20 Awesome. 01:49:37 @hit elliott 01:49:37 No match for "elliott". 01:50:04 @map test 01:50:04 http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellUserLocations 01:51:05 @hit- test 01:51:05 Unknown command, try @list 01:51:20 * elliott wonders what oerjan is doing. 01:51:39 trying to find out what @hi is interpreted as 01:51:45 @lo test 01:51:45 Maybe you meant: localtime localtime-reply lojban do 01:52:37 @lojban i 01:52:40 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 01:53:04 @lojban la lojban 01:53:08 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 01:53:17 fancy 01:53:30 * oerjan giveth upeth 01:55:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:49 lojban x 01:55:52 @lojban 01:55:53 @lojban hi 01:55:55 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 01:55:56 @lojban hello 01:55:58 @lojban :( 01:55:58 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 01:56:00 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 01:58:27 @lojban la lojban 01:58:31 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 01:58:34 @lojban le lojban 01:58:38 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 01:58:50 I forgot even the one sentence I knew 01:59:05 @lojban le nanmu cu ninmu 01:59:12 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 01:59:14 !! 02:00:45 The best thing about being a 10k user on Stack Overflow is that you can see all of Jon Harrop's deleted answers. 02:01:46 @lojban Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn! 02:01:53 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 02:04:49 Jon Harrop? 02:05:09 What is illegal about le nanmu cu ninmu? 02:05:10 Sgeo: A colostomy bag of a programmer. 02:05:14 @lojban nanmu 02:05:17 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 02:05:22 (Insult (c) elliott 2008) 02:05:24 @lojban zo'e nanmu 02:05:27 (Was it 2008? I forget.) 02:05:27 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 02:05:38 Anyway, he's a complete F# shill with a shitty consultancy selling shitty books. 02:05:38 zo'e should always be a legal parameter right? 02:05:49 He spends his time trolling internet forums talking about how useless Haskell and other languages he doesn't consult for are. 02:05:52 @lojban sumti 02:05:54 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 02:05:57 And slandering a bunch of people along the way. 02:06:07 And making idiotic blog posts about it. 02:06:09 @lojban le sumti cu sumti 02:06:15 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 02:06:47 Is this a legal statement 02:06:47 le sumti cu sumti 02:06:47 absolutely. 02:07:05 * oerjan wonders if Sgeo is really missing the point here 02:07:21 @help lojban 02:07:22 I perform dictionary lookups via the following 13 commands: 02:07:22 all-dicts ... Query all databases on dict.org 02:07:22 devils ...... The Devil's Dictionary 02:07:22 easton ...... Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary 02:07:22 elements .... Elements database 02:07:24 [9 @more lines] 02:07:31 aha 02:07:37 ...? 02:07:42 or wait 02:07:46 @lojban all-dicts hi 02:07:48 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parametersError: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 02:07:50 @list lojban 02:07:51 dict provides: dict dict-help all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02 02:08:35 @easton cthulhu 02:08:36 No match for "cthulhu". 02:08:45 ...AAAA 02:08:46 @lojban sumti 02:08:48 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 02:08:58 So what the fark does @lojban do, exactly? 02:09:02 @hitchcock GOTCHA 02:09:02 No match for "GOTCHA". 02:09:42 Sgeo: err out? 02:09:48 @all-dicts hello 02:09:49 *** "Hello" gcide "The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48" 02:09:49 Hello \Hel*lo"\, interj. & n. 02:09:49 An exclamation used as a greeting, to call attention, as an 02:09:49 exclamation of surprise, or to encourage one. This variant of 02:09:49 {Halloo} and {Holloo} has become the dominant form. In the 02:09:51 [34 @more lines] 02:09:56 @all-dicts sumti 02:09:57 No match for "sumti". 02:09:57 @foldoc hello 02:09:58 *** "hello" foldoc "The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (26 July 2010)" 02:09:58 hello, world 02:09:59 hello 02:10:01 02:10:05 :D 02:10:05 The canonical minimal test message in the 02:10:07 [13 @more lines] 02:10:11 @more 02:10:11 @more 02:10:11 {C}/{Unix} universe or any of the minimal programs that emit 02:10:12 @more 02:10:12 @more 02:10:12 @more 02:10:13 this message. 02:10:15 02:10:17 Traditionally, the first program a C coder writes in a new 02:10:19 environment is one that just prints "hello, world" to standard 02:10:21 [8 @more lines] 02:10:23 output (and indeed it is the first example program in {K&R}). 02:10:25 02:10:27 Plugin `more' failed with: thread killed 02:11:45 -!- teryrei has joined. 02:12:05 * Sgeo points teryrei at lambdabot 02:12:09 @lojban sumti 02:12:11 Error: 501 Syntax error, illegal parameters 02:12:19 huh. 02:12:27 what's it supposed to do? 02:12:29 Which seems to be a dictionary thing that's broken 02:12:40 ah. 02:12:41 `WELCOME TERYREI 02:12:48 TERYREI: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE 02:12:52 SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS, I'M IRCING FROM A COMMODORE 64. 02:13:24 Hmm, maybe lambdabot is using a Lojban dictionary on the web that moved stuff around? 02:13:30 elliott: IT WOULD BE FINE IF THE LINK WORKED 02:13:45 @ja hacker 02:13:45 *** "hacker" jargon "The Jargon File (version 4.4.7, 29 Dec 2003)" 02:13:45 hacker 02:13:45 n. 02:13:45 02:13:45 [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 02:13:47 [47 @more lines] 02:14:22 teryrei, is there a particular web-based dictionary that would likely have been used, and has it changed around? 02:14:29 hmm. 02:14:54 the web-based dictionaries that are primarily used are vlasisku and jbovlaste 02:15:01 OERJAN: UNFORTUNATELY, IT IS DIFFICULT TO CODE SUCH THINGS ON A COMMODORE 64. 02:15:10 oerjan: Wait, what did I get double-swatted for? 02:15:19 elliott: YOU MUST USE BASIC, OF COURSE 02:15:20 ALSO, LAMBDABOT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT USING WEB-BASED DICTIONARIES. 02:15:26 EVEN I KNOW THAT. AND I USE COMMODORE 64S 02:15:35 shachaf: you were the closest lambdabot admin 02:15:43 oerjan: I'm not a lambdabot admin. :-( 02:15:46 I wasn't even online. 02:15:51 I don't think kmc is a lambdabot admin either. 02:15:57 elliott, however... 02:16:04 HEY, I EVEN PLEADED GUILTY! 02:16:08 OERJAN JUST REALLY LIKES SWATTING YOU. 02:16:19 I REFUSE TO BELIEVE ELLIOTT IS AN ADMIN AND YOU AREN'T 02:16:27 CALE MADE ME AN ADMIN 02:16:34 BECAUSE I ASKED AS A JOKE 02:16:43 oerjan: The trick elliott used to becoming a lambdabot admin was along the lines of "Cale, make me an admin!" 02:16:45 SHACHAF IS AN ADMIN ONLY BECAUSE HE LOGS IN WITH THE NICK OF REAL ADMINS TO @ADMIN + HIMSELF 02:17:08 elliott: HEY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH OF LAMBDABOT'S MANY SECURITY FLAWS I'M USING! 02:17:09 SHACHAF: ACTUALLY, SOMEONE ASKED ME WHY I WASN'T A LAMBDABOT ADMIN, AND I SAID "GOOD QUESTION! CALE, WHY AREN'T I A LAMBDABOT ADMIN?" 02:17:12 AND THEN I WAS LAMBDABOT ADMIN 02:17:36 irssi only highlights "^kmc[:,]" and not "kmc"? 02:17:39 elliott: HMM, LET'S STAGE THAT IN #HASKELL, EXCEPT WITH S/YOU/ME/G 02:17:42 kmc: Yep. 02:17:50 :( 02:17:51 kmc: You can tell it to highlight "kmc", though. 02:17:51 KMC: THAT'S ONE OF IRSSI'S MANY BUGS (BUG, N. BEHAVIOUR I DISLIKE) 02:18:03 (DEFINITION DUE TO MAUKE) 02:18:03 how shachaf? i looked for at least 15 seconds and couldn't find 02:18:03 kmc: I don't think that [:,] is part of the regexp, actually. 02:18:05 kmc is it 02:18:06 oh 02:18:09 yeah that did it 02:18:12 elliott: do you liek magnets 02:18:16 NO 02:18:17 /hilight kmc 02:18:31 hi kmc 02:18:32 HI, LIGHT 02:18:53 Did it work? 02:18:57 yes 02:19:01 thaxchaf 02:19:10 hi keegan 02:19:15 got that too 02:19:56 hi bobthemonkey13 02:20:10 shachaf: u creepy stalker 02:20:14 * oerjan tests 02:20:30 and then oerjan tests some more 02:20:39 etc. 02:20:44 bah 02:22:46 kmc: Huh? 02:22:57 ^ul (ACTION helps oerjan with the testing)S 02:22:58 * fungot helps oerjan with the testing 02:23:09 wtf 02:23:56 what 02:24:04 that was a really ugly color 02:24:39 fungot: what do you think? 02:24:39 oerjan: that you all for them, i have come up with a " i have lots, probably! if not, we can make the cutest cards ever for a series of puns. 02:25:30 ^ul (ACTION helps oerjan with the testing)S 02:25:30 * fungot helps oerjan with the testing 02:30:11 kmc: What's /usr/lib/tracker/tracker-* supposed to be? 02:31:26 hi oerjan 02:32:40 shachaf: ? 02:32:43 i've never heard of those files 02:32:50 hello!!! 02:33:55 kmc: They're programs that are running and using lots of CPU. 02:33:59 I thought you would know. :-( 02:34:08 (gnome-settings-daemon:11549): PackageKit-WARNING **: do something? 02:34:26 g'day 02:35:08 Tracker indexes your stuff so you can search instantaneously by content. 02:35:49 It also provides a generic metadata store for programs. 02:35:49 hello!!! 02:35:52 I don't want tracker to track. 02:35:52 hello ion 02:35:58 o hai 02:35:58 ion: How do I untracker. :-( 02:36:06 Is this a recent thing? 02:36:06 HELLO ION 02:36:07 with fire 02:36:09 hi 02:36:11 oops 02:36:11 *hello 02:36:22 sometimes i mistakes 02:36:43 HELLO TO YOU, ELIOT! 02:36:49 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:36:51 this is what happems when you irc from space people 02:37:02 kmc: how good would mosh be in space 02:37:08 compared to ssh 02:37:13 let's make it easy let's say mars 02:37:40 shachaf: It shouldn’t use a lot of resources after the initial indexing. And it should use the lowest priority in any case. 02:39:15 -!- teryrei has left. 02:39:36 ion: Also, why do I randomly get pseudo-disconnected from the wireless network? 02:39:44 As in 169.254.*. Maybe it's a dhcp issue? 02:40:10 /var/log/syslog 02:40:50 finally i drove teryrei away 02:41:03 all it took was going into space 02:41:07 elliott: Half-hour latency remains a *bitch*. 02:42:23 I just came up with yet another argument against the cat-haters! 02:42:39 The people who say you should do "foo < file" or "foo file" instead of "cat file | foo". 02:42:49 Who are, by the way, wrong. 02:43:08 The other argument is sudo cat file | less, instead of sudo less file. 02:43:48 shachaf: i stand in solidarity w/ u 02:43:51 -!- monqy has joined. 02:43:53 file.out 02:44:06 my sloid arity 02:44:09 ion: no bad 02:44:11 bad person 02:44:42 ion: Doesn't work with sudo! 02:44:44 shachaf: Given that /bin/cat is probably GNU, running "less file" as root probably presents less of an attack surface than "cat file". 02:44:49 Apr 13 19:43:12 carbon dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on wlan0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 10 02:44:52 Apr 13 19:43:22 carbon dhclient: No DHCPOFFERS received. 02:44:55 Apr 13 19:43:22 carbon dhclient: Trying recorded lease 192.168.1.80 02:44:57 Apr 13 19:43:25 carbon avahi-autoipd(wlan0)[7970]: No longer a routable address configured, restarting probe process. 02:45:00 Apr 13 19:43:25 carbon dhclient: No working leases in persistent database - sleeping. 02:45:03 Apr 13 19:43:30 carbon avahi-autoipd(wlan0)[7970]: Callout BIND, address 169.254.9.114 on interface wlan0 02:45:06 Apr 13 19:43:34 carbon avahi-autoipd(wlan0)[7970]: Successfully claimed IP address 169.254.9.114 02:45:09 :-( 02:45:16 TIL: this less doesn’t come from GNU. 02:45:30 Oh, crap, less is also GNU. 02:45:47 It is? 02:46:11 Today, ion and pikhq_ exchanged knowledge. 02:46:17 No, wait, it's not. 02:46:18 In the linear sense. 02:46:30 It sure as hell isn't. 02:46:35 Interesting. Mine comes from but there seems to be as well. 02:46:40 What's avahi? :-( 02:46:44 I don't like all these things. 02:46:53 How do I unthing my computer. :-( 02:46:56 The man page says "less is part of the GNU project and is free software.", but it is not © FSF. 02:47:02 Ergo it is not GNU. 02:48:02 My less cometh from whence the ion disclosed alsowards. 02:48:04 I'm going with "confusing". 02:48:08 shachaf: Avahi is a Good Thing™. The problem is the “No DHCPOFFERS received” part. 02:48:10 less dates back to 1984? 02:48:21 ion: Right. But why? 02:48:32 Hmm. /bin/cat is 52k, /bin/less is 148k. 02:48:36 ion: avahi is Poetteringware. Are you *sure* it's a Good Thing? 02:48:39 Also, does that mean that the lease expired? Why can't it just stick with the old IP until it gets a new one? 02:48:40 I don't think Poetteringware can be a Good Thing. 02:48:43 In the linear sense. <-- you mean the original knowledge was destroyed? 02:48:50 oerjan: Right. 02:49:37 Avahi implements Zeroconf. 02:50:03 shachaf: When there is no DHCP server it’s probably invalid behavior to keep an address some previously existing DHCP server happened to give to you for a period. 02:50:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Hi, Ave). 02:51:19 ion: Are you saying the problem might maybe be with the server? 02:51:22 I'm suspicious. 02:52:19 All i know is that your DHCP queries don’t make it to the server OR the DHCP responses don’t make it to your client. You’ll need to investigate more. 02:52:37 ion answers shachaf's questions but not mine. :'( 02:52:50 Is the cable working? Do any other computers have the same problem? Anything interesting in /var/log/syslog on the server? 02:52:53 ion: When I reconnect to the wireless network from scratch, it always works. 02:53:09 I'm at a public place, so I don't really know about other computers. But I doubt it. 02:53:15 shachaf: A wireless driver problem perhaps. 02:53:34 Maybe. 02:53:40 I recently ran a dist-upgrade. 02:53:52 I mean just a regular upgrade. 02:53:57 The dist- was out of habit. 02:53:59 Well, I ran it a while ago, but I rebooted for the first time since then. 02:54:37 * elliott always does dist-upgrade, too. 02:54:57 elliott: Avahi actually feels like quite a solid piece of software. 02:55:11 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:55:22 ion: But Poettering. :( 02:56:10 elliott: It seems to be early Poettering. 02:56:40 Before he went around just trying to break everything. 02:56:45 There are stages of Poettering? 02:56:49 When does it become fatal? 02:57:02 To self or everyone else? 02:57:29 Is there a difference, man? 02:57:32 Duuude. 02:57:33 etc. 02:57:39 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:04:10 What happen if with (a -> Bool) -> a instead is f a -> a if f is contravariant functor? 03:04:16 By the way: http://youtu.be/_whSnPErl7c 03:05:41 -!- augur has joined. 03:06:04 -!- monqy has joined. 03:12:28 -!- MSleep has joined. 03:13:38 ion: Tracker is still going. 03:13:57 My computer is rendered mostly unusable by the constant hard disk usage. 03:16:11 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:22:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:23:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:23:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:23:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:23:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:23:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:24:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:24:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:24:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:25:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:25:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:25:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:25:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:25:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:25:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:26:51 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:26:51 -!- glogbot has joined. 03:26:52 -!- glogbackup has left. 03:26:55 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:26:56 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:35:03 -!- monqy_ has joined. 03:35:18 -!- monqy has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:35:20 -!- monqy_ has changed nick to monqy. 03:40:31 elliott, monqy non-working UPDATE 03:43:19 -!- monqy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:45:00 -!- monqy has joined. 04:22:22 kmc: "Apply deepSeqArray to up to four arrays. The implementation of this function has been hand-unwound to work for up to four arrays. Putting more in the list yields error." 04:22:26 -!- rubygloom has joined. 04:22:30 http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/repa/3.1.1.1/doc/html/src/Data-Array-Repa-Base.html#deepSeqArrays 04:22:33 best function ever 04:22:36 `welcome rubygloom 04:22:40 rubygloom: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 04:22:44 hi 04:22:49 :) 04:23:04 You also have hi? 04:23:17 * quintopia gives zzo38 an extra hi 04:24:04 what happens in illinois? is it boring? 04:25:23 -!- rubygloom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:25:36 well that guy was exciting 04:26:45 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:35:06 -!- Sato0x has joined. 04:35:09 hi 04:46:23 hi 04:47:16 hi 04:47:43 Did you ssee my language? 04:47:47 I put it on the wiki 04:47:48 :D 04:47:53 when? 04:48:00 has it been more than a month? 04:48:23 no 04:48:26 few days 04:48:38 some nice guy edited to make it look nice 04:48:46 just a few minutes after I published it 04:48:48 or hours 04:48:57 I forget 04:49:29 well link it and i will see 04:50:20 ok 04:50:23 :) 04:50:38 http://esolangs.org/wiki/EGL 04:53:28 ummmmmm 04:53:39 yeah its not worth discussion 04:53:50 :( 04:53:55 you're mean 04:54:29 yes i am being overly honest without concern for your feelings 04:54:42 nou 04:55:00 you intend to offend me without regard to the subject 04:55:11 however, you should know that the esolang community is to particular languages what the planet earth is to individual humans 04:55:40 it doesnt care unless its interesting enough to achieve celebrity status 04:56:14 and you should not expect anyone to have seen your language just because you posted it on the wiki 04:56:40 what does it take for a language to achieve celebrity status? 04:57:01 it has to probe some heretofore unexplored aspect of the design space 04:57:41 what is your preferred language to program in? 04:58:09 perl and php 04:58:23 mainly php since I usually do web dev 04:58:31 aha 04:58:35 in php, 04:58:44 though I wrote an interpreter in perl and php 04:58:56 what languages have you played with in the past besides those? 04:59:08 I'm trying to learn c++ right now 04:59:16 I've read a fair bit about asm 04:59:29 you are not branching out enough 04:59:34 hm 04:59:48 you have your whole life ahead of you! 04:59:51 see the world! 04:59:56 take some photos! 04:59:59 what 05:00:07 send me a postcard from LISP 05:00:20 Sato0x: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ 05:00:34 get a photo of you and turing standing next to the haskell tower! 05:00:36 (I'm helping!) 05:01:05 take a prolog rocket to the moon! 05:01:25 onmoon(quintopia). 05:01:29 set FORTH on an adventure (preferably a rogue-like) 05:02:15 I agree that PHP is full of bad designs. However I could get many things to work in PHP which are not built-in, such as partially applied functions, and pointers. 05:02:18 -!- elliott has joined. 05:02:19 @time 05:02:20 Local time for elliott is Sat Apr 14 06:02:50 05:02:24 once you have seen the wonders of the world, you will be easily capable of creating a esolang that every will have read before you even have to ask 05:02:30 @chime 05:02:31 Local time for zzo38 is 2012/04/13 21:53:38 -0700 05:02:34 kmc: Those are opinions; php works just fine for me and accomplishes what I need it to do. 05:02:41 no they are not opinions 05:02:45 it is a massive list of technical facts 05:02:50 is someone defending php 05:02:51 Opinions 05:02:55 *is someone defending php and still in this channel 05:02:55 can someone give me ops for a moment? 05:02:57 I have justice to do 05:03:05 coppro: No 05:03:06 (sorry i made a typo by omitting words) 05:03:35 elliott: goto sleep; 05:03:44 no 05:03:51 wow we only have 6 ops here? 05:03:59 several of whom are never seen 05:04:01 only three active ops. 05:04:05 elliott: Sato0x made a cross between befunge and brainfuck and came in here asking "have you seen my new language?!?" 05:04:13 dammit :( 05:04:17 Sato0x: if I tried to build a house by hammering the nails in with my own forehead 05:04:23 quintopia: i don't mind that! i mind defending php though 05:04:23 it would be your "opinion" that i'm doin it rong 05:04:24 yes? 05:04:33 so i said he should branch out from the imperative/procedural languages he came from 05:04:34 how long has this been going on btw 05:04:40 i get the feeling: a while 05:04:41 elliott: Since 2001. 05:04:42 Depends, did the house end up being built? 05:04:43 I need to /invite someone :( 05:04:51 yes, and my brain severely damaged in the process 05:04:55 coppro: You need to be an op for that? 05:05:01 this would explain why people continue to defend PHP of course 05:05:19 kmc, h8r 05:05:29 yes 05:06:21 php is more like a functioning electric screw driver. 05:06:26 On a screw. 05:06:37 php is more like putting nails into your dick 05:06:39 but anyway 05:06:45 it's hard to argue with someone who thinks PHP is good 05:07:11 Indeed; they have too many valid points. 05:07:12 just know that everyone else in the world of programming is laughing at you 05:07:20 until your website compromises our data 05:07:30 Sato0x: btw where is the actual EGL info on detain.me, i can't find any 05:07:36 AND WHO'S LAUGHING THEN? 05:07:49 detain.me/tools/egl.php 05:07:54 EGL.php* 05:08:07 is that actually linked anywhere from the site 05:08:09 and in the articles 05:08:12 PHP is not so good (JavaScript is better than PHP, but, a lot of things are better than PHP, anyways); but, a few things that PHP lacks are possible to implement anyways but not in the better way of another programming language 05:08:13 there's a doc 05:08:19 I think 05:08:23 http://detain.me/articles/ no there's not 05:08:23 JavaScript is awful, too :( 05:08:37 === man 05:08:37 javascript is not great but nothing compares to PHP 05:08:39 qfr: Well, it is better than PHP, at least. 05:08:40 it's PHP all over again 05:08:42 it is the blind leading the blind 05:08:42 Perhaps 05:08:46 hmm 05:09:05 Sato0x: so did you actually read the article 05:09:07 javascript was at least designed by someone who knows things 05:09:13 and its literally hundreds of examples of how PHP is completely insnae 05:09:13 SPL types? 05:09:16 insane* 05:09:17 Should I be scareD? 05:09:20 scared 05:09:22 saddled with bad requirements (and then tarnished by terrible API design) 05:09:22 these are not opinions, they are facts about the language 05:09:28 I'll reupload it when I get on my desktop 05:09:45 opinionw 05:09:52 scared 05:10:06 Is that a UNIX daemon that shows you a screaming face at random intervals during the night? 05:10:17 I want that daemon. 05:10:25 (I am refering to JavaScript without DOM, just to clarify) 05:10:27 You *are* that daemon. 05:10:29 Sato0x: "=> isn’t an operator. It’s a special construct that only exists inside array(...) and the foreach construct." is this an opinion 05:10:43 anyway 05:10:43 T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM 05:10:50 kmc: that article is way too long and bullshit 05:10:55 Sgeo: AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT???? 05:11:00 the only thing anyone needs to know about PHP is http://catseye.tc/about/php.html 05:11:05 the problem with PHP is that anyone halfway competent gives up on it and switches to something, anything else 05:11:18 fact 05:11:24 I don't see how that's bad 05:11:39 `addquote the problem with PHP is that anyone halfway competent gives up on it and switches to something, anything else fact I don't see how that's bad 05:11:42 830) the problem with PHP is that anyone halfway competent gives up on it and switches to something, anything else fact I don't see how that's bad 05:11:43 hey ##esoteric, 05:11:50 * Cannot join ##esoteric (Channel is invite only). 05:11:53 are you really bothering arguing with someone who thinks php is good 05:11:55 hi monqy 05:11:56 oh no 05:11:56 im not arguing 05:11:59 im pointing and laughing 05:12:04 hi 05:12:05 Sato0x: uh, it's bad because all PHP code and the interpreter itself is written by idiots who give bad advice? 05:12:07 i misspeleled @esoptermci 05:12:09 $oesteric 05:12:11 #oesteric 05:12:13 #esoteric 05:12:13 #epic 05:12:15 oops 05:12:15 > (compare `on` take 1) "hi" "hey" 05:12:16 EQ 05:12:18 i didnt intend for that 05:12:24 hi monqy 05:12:28 kmc: he was responding to my statement i think 05:12:30 Well, I have written programs in PHP, and have emulated partially applied functions and so on. The FurryScript engine is written in PHP. Icoruma is written in PHP but I might rewrite it in something else. However, Internet Quiz Engine (more modern than those two programs) is written in C; it is better idea. 05:12:38 Sato0x: "create_function is basically a wrapper around eval. It creates a function with a regular name and installs it globally (so it will never be garbage collected—don’t use in a loop!). It doesn’t actually know anything about the current scope, so it’s not a closure. The name contains a NUL byte so it can never conflict with a regular function (because PHP’s parser fails if there’s a NUL in a file anywhere)." also not an opinon 05:12:44 Sato0x: "Declaring a function named __lambda_func will break create_function—the actual implementation is to eval-create the function named __lambda_func, then internally rename it to the broken name. If __lambda_func already exists, the first part will throw a fatal error." also not an opinion 05:12:47 http://use.perl.org/use.perl.org/_Aristotle/journal/33448.html 05:12:53 if (size > INT_MAX || size <= 0) 05:12:55 elliott: create_function is very stupid *never* use it 05:12:57 float size; 05:13:03 THIS IS HOW THE PHP INTERPRETER WORKS 05:13:10 "parse_str parses a query string, with no indication of this in the name. Also it acts just like register_globals and dumps the query into your local scope as variables, unless you pass it an array to populate. (It returns nothing, of course.)" also not an opinion 05:13:18 http://phpsadness.com/sad/47 who needs to compare the other half of your password hash, anyway? 05:13:26 kmc: Wow, those PHP people. "size" should be a double. 05:13:32 srsly shachaf 05:14:07 they wanted to check if the malloc size would overflow 05:14:19 so they checked the int against INT_MASH 05:14:20 PHP does have a feature that a callback can be not only the name of a function but can also be an object together with the name of one of its methods; this can be used to emulate partially applied functions 05:14:22 INT_MAX* 05:14:23 INT_MASH 05:14:29 that's the greatest constant ever 05:14:30 frash prugin 05:14:53 this can be used to emulate partially applied functions, and also some other types of functions 05:15:17 It is one of the best features of PHP, and is still not very good. That shows you that PHP is not very good. 05:15:21 but after they realized that comparing an int to INT_MAX is no use 05:15:24 they changed it to a float 05:16:07 I've never had to use create_function.. 05:16:21 none of the things stated have been problems for me 05:16:58 i put some scorpions down my pants just now 05:17:01 no stings yet 05:17:12 ive been living with scorpions in my pants for ten years 05:17:17 feels great! 05:17:17 so i feel justified in ignoring the very long and detailed "don't put scorpions down your pants" blog article 05:17:21 i love the stings 05:17:22 mmmmm 05:17:27 sting party 05:17:31 (the sting party is ##php) 05:17:42 (everyone just awkwardly gazing at everyone else's scrotch-scorpions) 05:17:47 ("mine isn't stinging properly") 05:17:56 ("oh it's glued up, let me help you") 05:18:04 (scrotch) 05:18:07 (i don't remember typing scrotch 05:18:08 ) 05:18:09 Maybe they are dead 05:18:14 yes 05:18:16 As they say 05:18:27 That is why they are not stinging properly 05:18:27 "haters gonna hate" 05:18:29 i nurture my scorpions daily, and replace them when they die 05:18:29 as they say, don't put scorpions down your pants unless you can deal with the glue 05:18:33 i give them proper burials 05:18:39 Sato0x: who says that 05:18:49 Sato0x: if any of my friends said that i would stop being friends with that friend 05:18:58 many people, 05:19:02 bad people 05:19:02 I heard it on the radio actually 05:19:04 once i committed genocide against an entire continent 05:19:06 bad radio 05:19:08 but then i told the judge 05:19:09 then people from school were saying it 05:19:10 "haters gonna hate" 05:19:12 monqy am i your friend :( 05:19:13 bad people 05:19:16 and we had a crotch scorpion sting party 05:19:19 shachaf: do you say "haters gonna hate" 05:19:20 "haters gonna hate" 05:19:23 no 05:19:25 never 05:19:27 shachaf doesn't say "haters gonna hate" 05:19:31 he says "\"haters gonna hate\"" 05:19:36 diabolical 05:19:37 shachaf: friend 05:19:46 "\"\\\"haters gonna hate \\\"\"" 05:20:04 BREAKING NEWS saxophone mathematician invents saxiom of choice 05:20:10 *saxophonide 05:20:38 What is a "saxiom of choice"? Is that anything like "axiom of choice"? 05:20:47 nothing 05:20:48 Very different. 05:20:49 nothing like it 05:21:25 Stubbornness will block enlightenment, but will lead to random negative remarks 05:21:42 Sato0x wisdom, by Sato0x 05:21:44 kmc: Are you supposed to compare password hashes with ==, anyway? 05:21:52 I mean, I guess you don't have to worry about timing attacks in general. 05:22:10 You might still leak the first few bytes that way... 05:22:12 shachaf: programming in PHP is easy, you just need to not make any mistakes 05:22:25 I mean in general, not just PHP. 05:22:50 The question is whether you should use a constant-time comparison function for password hashes. It's probably not a big deal. 05:23:13 I hate fruit juice because a bug might have touched the fruit 05:23:16 You are entitled to your opinion. 05:23:23 therefore I will never drink a fruit juice 05:23:30 you're a bad person 05:23:32 analogous to this situation 05:23:33 fruit juice is good 05:23:35 hi monqy 05:23:37 shachaf: if you're using PHP then timing attacks are like your last concern 05:23:38 You don't like a bug juice too? 05:23:40 shachaf: friend 05:23:45 I like orange juice 05:23:45 :3 05:23:48 kmc: This isn't about PHP anymore! 05:24:00 ok 05:24:03 kmc: I've made an effort to get PHP out of my head. You keep putting it back. :-( 05:24:07 fair point then 05:24:10 > ( welcome to my web page)ok 05:24:12 (helpwelcome to my web page)ok 05:24:14 look guys 05:24:17 lambdabot can do PHP 05:24:22 it must be a great language!!! 05:24:27 lol. 05:24:29 wait it has a bug 05:24:29 !php hello 05:24:35 kmc: You've switched from "," to ":" as the nick-addressing character. I assume this has to do with your client switch. 05:24:39 haskell is the cloudscale language for the post-PHP world 05:24:40 > ( welcome to my web page)ok 05:24:42 (help welcome to my web page)ok 05:24:43 shachaf: yes 05:24:45 see, now it has no bugs! 05:24:45 But ":" is the One True Character, so I'm glad you've seen the light. 05:24:51 it's so much more businesslike 05:24:56 Sato0x: i'm sorry i doubted you 05:25:10 I prefer using : for that purpose too but you do what you like 05:25:28 > web 05:25:30 () 05:25:32 I also use : after the "Dear" line in any letter I write 05:25:32 > ok 05:25:33 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 05:25:35 kmc: i don't understand people who use "foo," 05:25:37 > welcome 05:25:39 42 05:25:39 is that even grammatical 05:25:41 like pedantically 05:25:42 > to 05:25:42 come on 05:25:43 () 05:25:44 > my 05:25:45 ":" is so much better 05:25:46 () 05:25:50 > php 05:25:52 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 05:25:53 > echo 05:25:54 () 05:26:01 this code is all copyrighted btw 05:26:04 @ty ( forall b b1. b -> b1 -> Doc 05:26:06 @ty (?)) 05:26:06 :t (?>) 05:26:07 parse error on input `)' 05:26:07 forall t t1 a. t -> t1 -> a 05:26:09 @ty (?>) 05:26:09 forall t t1 a. t -> t1 -> a 05:26:13 > page 05:26:15 () 05:26:15 > ok 05:26:17 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 05:26:23 spoilers: 05:26:24 elliott: We've been over this. 05:26:24 @let welcome = 42; echo = (); to = (); my = (); web = (); page = (); () _ _ = undefined; php = undefined; ok = undefined; infixl 1 > hi monqy 05:26:34 Not in scope: `hi'Not in scope: `monqy' 05:26:56 lol 05:26:58 Sato0x: great analogy bro 05:27:09 a more appropriate analogy is 05:27:23 "people keep telling me not to drink antifreeze, but it tastes great! haters gonna hate" 05:27:57 stubborn people will try anything to put their opinions over facts 05:28:03 ^you 05:28:18 oh 05:28:22 "here is a detailed article about how antifreeze is bad for you. OH IT'S JUST OPINIONS" 05:28:26 i think kmc is ignoring Sato0x's wisdom 05:28:27 and we should ban him 05:28:29 actually 05:28:31 better reason to ban kmc 05:28:34 :( 05:28:36 he puts two spaces after sentence-ending punctuation 05:28:39 kmc: I can tell that you miss the conversations of #haskell 05:28:40 fucking disgusting 05:28:43 yeah 05:28:48 hey, I put two spaces after sentence-ending punctuation! sometimes. 05:28:53 monqy: im watching you 05:29:00 other times I put spaces before sentence ending punctuation !!!instead 05:29:07 i put \r\n after sentence-ending punctuation 05:29:11 is your stomach churned 05:29:30 monqy: how predictable ! 05:29:35 monqy: hi 05:29:52 antifreeze is a bit different than php 05:29:52 shachaf: friend 05:29:59 -.-, but haters gonna hate 05:30:05 heh, brb 05:30:11 NO, DON'T 05:30:15 we need you 05:30:18 to tell us about 05:30:22 yes, drinking antifreeze is bad for only one person, while writing websites in PHP is a danger to society at large 05:30:25 how antifreeze is a bitt different than php 05:30:26 so they are quite different 05:30:30 and how -.-, but haters gonna hate 05:30:40 i need to know about -.-, but haters gonna hate 05:30:42 haters gonna make som valid points 05:31:02 `addquote haters gonna make som valid points 05:31:02 http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=PFSC-HATERS&Category_Code=PFSC 05:31:05 831) haters gonna make som valid points 05:31:06 But one of the most portable programming languages is TeX. TeX is very good for typesetting and occasionally other things are done too. 05:31:16 that quote is now (c) pfsc forever :'( 05:31:21 quotes "the copyright violation" 05:31:24 Calling TeX portable is a bit funny. 05:31:25 "the sequel" 05:31:31 kmc, shachaf "under arest for copeyright vioplation" 05:31:37 do not pass go 05:31:41 do not collect $200 05:31:41 By the way, I can make TeX on my system segfault! 05:31:44 vioplation is a nice word 05:31:50 shachaf: Really? TeX is very portable. That is, if it is true Plain TeX. 05:31:55 one time I segfaulted cpython 05:31:57 back 05:31:58 anyway can we just ban Sato0x for saying "haters gonna hate" 05:32:04 shachaf: Can you show how? 05:32:14 monqy: one time I segfaulted GHC! 05:32:16 actually multiple times. 05:32:19 nice 05:32:21 even: frequently. 05:32:24 can't do that with PHP 05:32:25 zzo38: "portable" if you count a special-purpose program that *compiles it to another programming language* just so it'll run on newer systems. 05:32:35 I dodn't do enough ghc black magic 05:32:38 ->can't think of a way to make php sound bad 05:32:46 ->compares it to antifreeze 05:32:49 I have segfaulted GHC a few times too 05:32:50 zzo38: Not a program that translates Pascal to C: A program that translates TeX-written-in-Pascal to TeX-written-in-C. 05:32:51 ->help 05:32:58 Sato0x: but isn't that a way to make php sound bad ?? help 05:33:06 shachaf: I am refering to programs written in TeX; not a program that compiles TeX. 05:33:13 monqy: antifreeze is REALLY USEFUL!!!! 05:33:16 *antifreese (british english) 05:33:24 elliott: so is php, man 05:33:29 And tell me how you make TeX to segfault 05:33:33 wikipedia was made possible by the power of php 05:33:36 Sato0x: anyway there's a channel where everyone loves php and you should go and talk to them about it 05:33:37 #haskell 05:33:41 imagine a world without wikipedia 05:33:43 do you want that 05:33:54 monqy: wait... oh no.... 05:33:57 the ESOLANG WIKI runs on PHP!!!! 05:34:00 That is true; MediaWiki is written in PHP. 05:34:01 WE ARE AGENTS OF OUR OWN UNDOING 05:34:08 imagine a world without brainfuck derivatives 05:34:12 wikipedia is written in PHP and there is absolutely no way they could have used any other language 05:34:15 brainfuck derivatives like php 05:34:16 truly PHP is the best of all possible worlds 05:34:49 lol 05:35:06 @time 05:35:07 Local time for elliott is Sat Apr 14 06:35:37 05:35:15 @time Sato0x 05:35:16 Local time for Sato0x is Sat Apr 14 01:35:07 2012 05:35:22 @time 05:35:25 Local time for monqy is Fri Apr 13 22:35:22 2012 05:35:31 Sato0x: how's florida 05:35:39 boring 05:35:53 here on vacation 05:36:07 -!- asiekierka has joined. 05:36:13 http://detain.me/tools/aimspem.php kmc i think your aim is going to get hecked by Sato0x 05:36:26 don't say 05:36:28 that i didn't warn you 05:36:32 if evolution is true then why does haskell.org use PHP 05:36:33 because i just warned you 05:36:34 checkmate atheists 05:36:42 lol 05:37:10 kmc: The reason is because they use MediaWiki; it has nothing to do with evolution 05:37:14 kmc: Sadly, evolution is the main cause of that. :-( 05:37:19 it's well known that you can't heck aim with haskell 05:37:56 I'm not sure how someone can actually compulse 05:37:58 over hating php 05:38:07 you? 05:38:47 im compulsing 05:38:48 Sato0x: I don't particularly like PHP either but I have written some programs using it, such as the FurryScript interpreter. 05:38:51 in a pile on the floor here 05:39:00 FurryScript? 05:39:09 i tried to follow Sato0x on twitter for more insights but the twitter account on http://detain.me/contact/ doesn't exist :'( 05:39:13 i'm twat 05:39:17 all twutted out 05:39:24 so much for my life as a twit 05:39:31 did you know Twitter isn't written in PHP? 05:39:33 that's why it's always down 05:39:36 ror 05:39:36 im sometimes twyt 05:39:39 RoR 05:39:43 I think 05:39:45 you cant scare me 05:39:46 with your roars 05:39:47 animal 05:39:57 Sato0x: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/FurryScript 05:40:23 yiff 05:40:33 elliott is secretly scared of roar 05:40:39 shit i visited the website 05:40:41 /usr/sbin/scared 05:40:45 and my computr is brodacsting an ip address 05:40:48 kmc: which one 05:40:49 hm 05:40:53 aim hecker 05:40:57 lol 05:40:58 oh fuck 05:41:01 you're hecked man 05:41:03 give up now 05:41:15 aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u 05:41:24 (corruption of "aim heckler") 05:41:32 xD 05:41:35 `addquote aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u (corruption of "aim heckler") 05:41:37 Sato0x: are you "for real though" as they say 05:41:38 832) aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u (corruption of "aim heckler") 05:41:42 shachaf++ 05:41:46 as the kids these days say 05:41:49 what's a for real 05:41:51 I want to know 05:41:55 Sato0x: Wait, I shouldn't get credit for that. 05:41:58 s/Sato0x/kmc/ 05:42:00 i have proof of 05:42:03 22:41 is this guy "for real though" as they say 05:42:05 corpproright infragment 05:42:05 is this guy "for real though" as they say 05:42:06 yes 05:42:33 lol 05:42:34 -!- elliott has set topic: aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 05:42:36 elliott: how can it be corpproright infragment, when u are not corporal 05:42:37 our topic was too long anyway 05:42:40 they are totally silent (electric engines) 05:42:43 shachaf: no its coproright infringement 05:42:44 ask coppro 05:42:45 he knows all about it 05:43:01 elliott: Oh, nice job on the -blah topic. 05:43:07 elliott: Wait... 05:43:10 That link is broken! 05:43:13 shachaf: huh? 05:43:20 works for me 05:43:21 no it's not 05:43:23 you tricked me :'( 05:43:32 april fools 05:43:35 :( 05:43:37 im fool 05:43:41 fool who dont drink no antifreeze 05:43:45 elliott: The one in the #-blah topic. 05:43:48 and dont put no invigorating scorpion down my pants 05:43:52 YOU'RE WINNER ! 05:43:54 should I -blah 05:43:56 shachaf: i just tried it 05:44:01 it works 05:44:07 Does anyone here know malbolge? 05:44:09 no 05:44:09 elliott: Oh, wait. 05:44:10 what's malbolge 05:44:15 I mistypeppdpddd itt. 05:44:21 mal bulge 05:44:22 itt I mistyppedpedpedd 05:44:26 my friends names malegoblg, that's almost malbolge 05:44:33 (i know my friend) 05:44:36 I don't want you to put anything down my pants either (whether it is scorpions or not) 05:44:39 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbolge 05:44:47 what's that site 05:44:48 : Is Baelog your friend? 05:44:50 will it heck me and give me a virus 05:44:52 HEY REMEMBER BAELOG? 05:44:56 virarse 05:45:11 WITH HIS BOW AND ARROW OR, ALTERNATIVELY, RETRACTABLE ARM? 05:45:34 Sato0x: that link is broken man 05:45:38 it doesn't work 05:46:02 -!- cswords has joined. 05:46:30 maybe you meant: malbulge, malbugle, hello 05:46:39 It just worked 05:46:44 and went down for some reason 05:46:46 oh well 05:46:47 weird 05:46:52 diabolical 05:47:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge 05:47:18 Sato0x: oh the link works now! 05:47:29 goes to a page with some information about some really weird esoteric language 05:47:49 * kmc invents 500 new langugaes which are trivial variations on Malbolge 05:47:55 better crack open the antifreeze 05:48:15 yeah i wouldn't want to freeze while i'm working 05:48:19 you guys are all fired up 05:48:22 Sato0x: hmm, the language doesn't appear to be called malbolge on this page... 05:48:22 on php 05:48:26 can you double-check you got the right link? 05:48:28 i poured antifreeze all over my computer 05:48:29 i don't want my crotch scorpions to freeze 05:48:32 in this cold weather 05:48:33 the esolangs.org one 05:48:34 but it still has trouble with flash videos 05:48:43 Let's invent the exactly googolplex number of chess variants 05:48:43 it was thunderstorming today; they went crazy down there 05:48:59 Sato0x: more like all fired up on PCP 05:49:11 -.- 05:49:16 Sato0x: can you double check it please :( 05:49:19 that's just one letter off from php 05:49:29 Hot grits on your scorpions? 05:49:34 huh 05:49:48 huh? 05:49:58 Natalie Portman and scorpions? 05:50:04 I'll let you cool off 05:50:05 you seem mad 05:50:09 gay scorpions from outer space 05:50:09 are you saying 05:50:10 that 05:50:11 i mad 05:50:16 because you're going to have to be 05:50:19 a little more specific about it 05:50:32 but seriously that link is going somewhere weird can you please double-check it 05:50:33 your mad, elliott 05:50:51 monqy: *you're MORON 05:51:09 what about my moron, elliott? 05:51:13 its mad 05:51:15 you've been blabbering about the topic for 45+ minutes 05:51:22 :0 05:51:23 what topic 05:51:24 because this is fucking hilarious 05:51:43 his antifreeze thing 05:51:54 oh the page works normally now! 05:52:02 yes we're having a very serious discussion about PHP and gay scorpians 05:52:07 we are so piiiiissssssed at you Sato0x 05:52:11 why did you question our groupthink 05:52:11 um 05:52:12 excuse me 05:52:13 * kmc rage 05:52:15 my scoppions 05:52:22 are pristine female specimens 05:52:23 i have a special relationship with my scorpions 05:52:24 *speciwomens 05:52:28 NOT THAT THERES ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT 05:53:14 kmc i tried to use haskell to control my nuclear reactor, if you know what i mean 05:53:17 but 05:53:21 the only bindings i could find were for php 05:53:24 what do id o :/ 05:53:27 i guess 05:53:30 you really do just need php 05:53:32 to get things done 05:53:33 in the real world 05:53:39 you better go swimming in the containment pool 05:53:48 disgusting /kickban kmc 05:54:00 NOT AS DISGUSTING AS PHP, AM I RITE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 05:54:07 OHHHHHHHHHH 05:54:09 BUUUUUUUUUUU 05:54:10 RRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:11 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:12 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:13 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:13 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:13 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:14 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:15 n 05:54:15 elliott++ 05:54:16 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:18 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:20 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:22 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:24 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:26 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:28 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:30 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:32 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:33 Don't repeat yourself 05:54:34 n, elliott 05:54:34 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:35 n 05:54:36 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:38 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:40 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:42 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:44 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:46 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:48 RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:54:50 NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 05:54:52 NNNNNNNNNNNN 05:54:54 thank you 05:54:55 NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN 05:54:56 EEEEEEEEEEEEE 05:54:58 DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 05:55:01 burne 05:55:02 oh 05:55:03 RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:55:05 Don't repeat yourself that many times all at once unless you have something to say please 05:55:10 i had 05:55:11 things to say 05:55:14 but they were all RRRRRRRRRRRRR 05:55:16 'been about 50 minutes now 05:55:25 thanks for keeping the time, Sato0x 05:55:39 \\\\\\\'been about 50 minutes now 05:55:40 I don't know what I'd do without you, and also php 05:55:56 hey did you guys see that cobol.com video? 05:56:00 kmc: i regstered ur global 05:56:10 "With 50 years under its belt, Cobol is set to remain the dominant language for business applications for the next 50 years. Having consistently seen off the young pretenders, Cobol has continued to evolve to meet every new demand thrown at it, from both business and technology." 05:56:14 are 05:56:16 they trying to make cobol hip 05:56:20 yes 05:56:22 "Business applications written in Cobol are faster, more precise and more powerful than ever. And now it’s easier than ever to run them on the platforms that make the most business sense – now and in the future. 05:56:22 The future’s never been brighter for Cobol. And that’s got to make life better for you, too." 05:56:25 wh....... 05:56:26 is cobol not hip? 05:56:33 stop talking about cobol this is #esoteric 05:56:35 they should get coball.er 05:56:35 well 05:56:37 let's talk about haskell some more 05:56:38 its kind of like antifreeze 05:56:40 if you put it in your pants 05:56:44 the scorpion doesn't bite as much 05:57:05 you should watch the video 05:57:09 it's really good 05:57:34 "to take the enterprise applications of the future ... into the next future" 05:57:38 i dont see how cobol can do this 05:57:39 -!- Pikcles has joined. 05:57:40 only php can do this 05:57:41 oh 05:57:43 someone else 05:57:45 maybe we should stop the nonsense 05:57:48 `welcome Pikcles 05:57:52 Pikcles: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 05:57:55 can't stop can't stop can't stop can't stop 05:58:02 hi Pikcles, we just spent 50 minutes making fun of someone who likes PHP 05:58:06 I expect whatever program I write in TeX to continue working in the future without any changes 05:58:13 Pikcles: did you know your name is an anagram of "Ksplice"? 05:58:24 lmao 05:58:33 kmc is the anagrams-of-ksplice expert 05:58:40 i'm a domain expert 05:58:44 this is my domain 05:58:56 my domain is php.net 05:59:02 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wang_program 05:59:04 l0l 05:59:19 8====D 05:59:20 my domain and home page is cobol.com 06:01:46 these guys are rationalising cobol almost as much as Sato0x rationalises php 06:02:06 "curly brace languages like java and c#" 06:02:26 cobol is my antidrug 06:02:37 Do you like LLVM? 06:02:45 I am LLVM 06:03:26 cobol is my antifreeze 06:04:06 my only cobol regret is that isn't php 06:04:06 back 06:04:09 hi 06:04:11 woops 06:04:39 If you have a type like (f x -> x) in Haskell in case f is Contravariant and Plus (the one without Functor) then can it make a comonad? 06:05:30 Sato0x: tell me about php 06:05:33 what's a cool php feature 06:05:40 tell me about how long we've been talking about this 06:05:40 echo is nice 06:05:44 I lost track 06:05:50 about 55 minutes now 06:05:54 thanks 06:05:58 np 06:06:04 thumbs up, wink & smile 06:06:07 echo is nice yes 06:06:08 Sato0x: this is all about you 06:06:11 but what's the coolest php feature that 06:06:14 you don't think everyone knows 06:06:16 like a hidden gem 06:06:32 lol 06:06:35 06:07:12 I must go 06:07:15 -!- Sato0x has quit (Quit: Page closed). 06:07:16 have fun 06:07:56 but 06:07:59 what about 06:08:00 the feature 06:08:10 sigh how do we stop them coming back 06:08:11 there were too many 06:08:23 he got overwhelmed by how many great php features there are 06:08:27 and had to take a breather 06:09:52 ah 06:09:55 like cobol 06:09:59 @time 06:10:00 Local time for elliott is Sat Apr 14 07:10:30 06:10:03 fuck 06:10:12 rise & shine 06:10:27 do they have birds where you live 06:10:28 do they sing 06:13:18 no 06:13:28 :( 06:13:34 I have ducks, but also other birds, and owls 06:14:43 ah 06:15:29 monqy shachaf 06:15:31 how do i sleep 06:15:38 hi monqy 06:15:40 step 1 go to bed 06:15:42 step 2 sleep 06:15:42 hi elliott, shachaf, monqy, monqy 06:15:49 he lo 06:16:24 monqy: step 3 wake up late :'( 06:16:41 step 4 fun forever 06:16:49 step 1 hi monqy 06:16:54 step 2 hi party, monqy 06:17:00 step 3 hi poem, party, monqy 06:17:03 step 4 hi 06:17:23 what happens when 06:17:26 your scorpion stops biting 06:17:29 and you can't feel your legs any more 06:17:47 Q: what time is it when your scorpions stop biting 06:17:47 That's when you win. 06:17:51 A: time to get new scorpions 06:17:57 but 06:18:00 Then you should rest or see a doctor or both 06:18:01 how can i get new scorpions without legs 06:18:05 Q: what time is it when your scorpions stop biting 06:18:09 A: time to get new legs 06:18:35 Q:: what time is it when monqy stops saying hi 06:18:40 A:: time to cry :'( 06:18:52 monqy: where do i get new legs 06:19:07 discount leg store "we sell discount legs, for less!" 06:19:13 powered by PHP 06:19:14 say php.net 06:19:15 or cobol.com 06:19:15 oops 06:19:17 thank you kmc 06:19:23 you rescued that from the brink of lossage 06:20:07 i'm glad you all like my analogies 06:21:06 @time 06:21:07 Local time for elliott is Sat Apr 14 07:21:37 06:21:10 @time kmc 06:21:11 Local time for kmc is Sat Apr 14 02:22:09 2012 06:21:12 kmc 06:21:16 can i enter your timezone 06:21:22 @time 06:21:25 Local time for monqy is Fri Apr 13 23:21:24 2012 06:21:28 or monqy's 06:21:30 @time shachaf 06:21:32 Local time for shachaf is Fri Apr 13 23:21:30 2012 06:21:33 or shachaf's 06:21:37 any one is fine 06:21:47 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:22:10 Can your Dungeons&Dragons characters ride on huge scorpions? 06:23:12 -!- Pikcles has quit (Quit: Page closed). 06:23:17 rip ksplice 06:23:20 we missed you 06:23:21 and will miss you 06:23:24 for the rest of thyme 06:23:32 kmc won't answer me :'( 06:23:35 i need to say ksplice three times 06:23:38 ksplice ksplice ksplice mosh 06:23:45 aww 06:24:56 does anyone 06:24:59 have rooom free 06:25:02 in their timzoene 06:25:16 me 06:25:27 But my timezone is in America. :-( 06:25:29 i can verify this 06:25:37 shachaf's timezone is indeed in america 06:25:44 hi monqy 06:25:57 The sun never sets on the American Empire. 06:25:59 where's the nearest timezone where it isn't half 7 06:26:10 maybe the one where it's half 6 06:26:18 or half 8, if you prefer that way 06:26:34 no!!! 06:26:36 that one is worse 06:26:39 @time 06:26:46 Local time for zzo38 is currently free 06:27:01 I want to be in zzo38's time 06:27:07 it sounds like a good time 06:27:20 help 06:27:22 i don't understand 06:27:24 zzo38 time 06:27:35 free and in freedom 06:27:39 or free as in free beer 06:27:44 i'm not even convinced zzo38 has time 06:27:49 I heard zzo38 has free beer. 06:27:56 I have no beer 06:28:31 shachaf heard wrong 06:28:38 Free beer in the category of endofunctors. 06:29:42 sfkllskfjl;dfjsdf 06:29:42 @time 06:29:43 Local time for elliott is Sat Apr 14 07:30:13 06:29:57 ok 06:30:06 i have officially wasted like an hour and a half 06:30:07 on php 06:30:11 i hope you're all proud of yourselves 06:30:13 What is your sidereal time? 06:31:39 23:29 CTCP TIME reply from zzo38: 11h,39m,42s Sidereal Time 06:31:48 zzo38: I didn't send you a CTCP TIME request. :-( 06:31:54 Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 31st day of Discord in the YOLD 3178 06:32:05 @time zzo38 06:32:06 Local time for zzo38 is 2012/04/13 23:23:12 -0700 06:35:06 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:45:27 kmc what kind of time is that!? 06:45:37 which? 06:45:59 discordian calendar 06:46:07 /usr/bin/ddate 06:46:33 kmc: which package includes it? i'd like to add it to my distro 06:46:40 which distro do you maintain 06:46:45 kmc: not any distro you know 06:46:54 and it doens't base on any existing package repo either 06:46:57 it also uses an experimental libc 06:46:59 in debian it is in util-linux 06:47:05 oh, so it's in the util-linux source 06:47:12 which experimental libc? one you wrote? 06:47:15 what is the experiment 06:47:16 Tomorrow I'll probably explain integrals to my sister. 06:47:21 Over text. :-( 06:47:23 kmc: no, by experimental i mean actually standards-compilant 06:47:25 that is, musl 06:47:30 the only thing i wrote for the distro so far is the package manager 06:47:48 because all the other ones had either too many dependencies, not enough documentation or just plain failed 06:48:05 kmc: How's your libcfree program going? 06:48:52 glibc is standards-compilant and also adds a lot of its own things, for compatibility or ease of use 06:48:59 sadly that means it becomes over 2MB 06:49:12 it also lets us see how many (quite a few, in fact) apps are not libc-compilant but glibc-compilant 06:50:55 Hmm, switch(x) case 0: case 1: ...; is valid C. 06:51:20 shachaf: haven't done much recently 06:51:22 been working on mosh 06:52:23 So in Windows that's apparently more or less impossible to do. 06:52:30 There's no kernel ABI stability. 06:52:44 interesting 06:52:58 yeah, I've heard that the Windows kernel API is much nicer than the usual Win32 API 06:53:15 in linux tons of compat stuff is handled in the kernel 06:53:19 which leads to tons of exploitable holes 06:53:23 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:53:47 Keeping all that in userspace is a reasonable design decision. 06:53:53 -!- Slereah has joined. 06:53:58 yeah 06:54:50 i wish mosh didn't have so many dependencies 06:56:11 What's mosh 06:56:26 it's sad that dependencies are considered such a bad thing 06:56:29 people frown on code reuse 06:56:38 kmc what are you talking about 06:56:43 anyway i have a patchset in for review which removes the boost dependency 06:56:48 qfr: http://mosh.mit.edu/ 06:56:48 Reusing existing libraries is great! 06:57:13 boost is a particularly egregious case because your distro will install 100 MB of binary libs, none of which we use 06:57:17 we only include a couple headers 06:57:25 I thought boost was all headers. 06:57:28 no 06:57:30 shachaf haha 06:57:41 shachaf well, there are pre-compiled headers 06:57:46 Although I don't know if gcc supports that 06:57:55 At least it has options for that for Visual Studio, I believe 06:58:01 * shachaf is exaggerating, but only by a bit. 06:58:14 i'm glad we're using Protocol Buffers rather than rolling our own dumb key-value protocol like everyone does 06:58:22 and making exploitable mistakes like everyone does 06:58:28 that particular wheel has been reinvented way too many times 06:58:39 For my last one I used JSON :( 06:58:43 other than that and boost... ncurses and zlib are very standard 06:58:56 boost is very standard 06:58:58 utempter is actually optional although we don't document that very well 06:59:00 People don't care about code reuse. 06:59:04 They care about inconvenience. 06:59:06 Developers do 06:59:09 Yes, that too 06:59:15 I meant users. 06:59:27 and we use one perl module (you can get by without the Perl wrapper script, if need be) 06:59:29 They don't like libraries just because of the hassle. They don't have anything *against* code reuse. 06:59:36 so I don't think mosh has an unreasonable number of dependencies 07:00:14 There's also SSH. 07:00:18 yeah 07:00:31 technically you can use mosh without ssh 07:00:31 If mosh is an SSH replacement then why does it depend on SSH? 07:00:36 CHECKMATE, CRETIONISTS 07:00:41 yeah 07:00:45 we do a bad job explaining that too 07:00:50 mosh depending on ssh is like a burrito 07:01:04 oh man, there is a new taqueria 2 blocks from my house 07:01:19 Is it good? 07:01:30 Probably better than the taquería 2 blocks from my house. :-( 07:01:35 's all right 07:01:39 i'm withholding judgement for now 07:01:41 need more data 07:01:45 shachaf: I'm in Boston area... 07:01:52 I know. 07:02:02 But I regret going to that one every time I go there. 07:02:11 the baseline for a burrito here is that like a guy wraps a rat in butcher paper and slaps you with it 07:02:35 Hmm. 07:02:49 You should move to SF! 07:02:57 Or back to NY. They have good burritos, right? 07:03:10 And ¢0.02 Verizon pizza. 07:03:42 yeah 07:03:48 i should move to SF 07:04:33 * shachaf posts to kmcrumours.com 07:04:41 ;.; 07:05:00 Did you know you can register keegan.mc? 07:05:11 heh 07:05:12 could do 07:05:24 Or bobthemon.ky 07:06:11 (Oops. :-( ) 07:07:00 users don't have anything against code reuse, unlike developers 07:07:29 Developers have something against code reuse? 07:07:47 kmc - i don't frown against code reuse 07:07:51 it's just more work for me in this case 07:08:08 i frown against code reuse only when you use, let's say, 1 function from a library 07:08:14 and require it in all cases 07:10:50 kmc: Do you have fun typing some text and then holding down backspace to delete the irssi prompt? 07:11:06 It's my new favourite thing to do. 07:11:38 yes! 07:11:42 i do that 07:11:52 i was trying to find the minimum amonut of text to make it work 07:12:04 depends on lag though 07:12:08 Right. 07:12:20 also there's this one library that Mosh uses only a tiny part of 07:12:30 and it's under a very permissive license 07:12:38 It doesn't work with one character because mosh needs to see the response from deleting the one character before it realizes that the current behavior is "deleting". 07:12:40 so we just included the relevant source and build it ourselves 07:12:46 At least that's my mental model of what mosh does. 07:12:47 that's the right thing to do 07:12:54 this is fine *except* on Debian and Ubuntu 07:13:01 they don't allow it because they have a package for that library 07:13:09 well if they have a package you should install the package 07:13:13 except their package is built with flags incompatible with the flags Mosh wants to build with 07:13:16 ... 07:13:24 link it statically? 07:13:32 it's incompatible *because* it's static 07:13:44 https://github.com/keithw/mosh/commit/0eec0b60f0c5b3d94d5e382ea3d4aff35c879ed2 07:14:08 oh you.jpg, debian 07:14:31 i mean we could pick a policy fight with debian 07:14:35 or i could write 50 lines of code 07:14:37 so i chose the latter 07:15:09 but it's pointless make-work 07:15:39 i have some sympathy for the rule in general 07:15:56 kmc: You're not using the stddjb idiom of return (errno = EX, -1)? 07:16:15 no 07:19:48 sizeof values with parentheses is the devil. :-( 07:20:04 shachaf: the correct model is not quite "we're in delete mode now" 07:20:14 as soon as mosh-client sees backspace, it predicts a delete 07:20:37 but it might not be confident enough to display predictions 07:20:41 I don't mean "delete mode", just "responding to keystrokes by printing them mode". 07:21:23 I note that when I type a few characters, it doesn't start predicting responses to the later ones until it gets a response to at least one. 07:21:27 shachaf: what's wrong with parens? 07:21:38 shachaf: right, after all you might be entering your password 07:21:53 "sizeof(x)" in C is like "foo(x)" in Haskell. 07:22:07 except that it's consistent with everything else in the language 07:22:10 including sizeof(x_t) 07:22:15 It's an operator that doesn't take parentheses, and it doesn't behave like one that takes parentheses. 07:22:38 For example sizeof(x)[y] === sizeof ((x)[y]) 07:23:17 i'll keep that in mind next time i want to array index a size_t 07:23:18 ;) 07:23:23 but yeah, fair enough 07:23:39 http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/c/sizeof.c 07:24:00 i realize the parens are not necessary, but the consistency is nice 07:24:08 does code where this is a problem arise in practice? 07:24:36 Some people use "return (...);" too. I think that's reasonably justified -- it's probably less ambiguous than sizeof. :-) 07:24:39 I'm not sure. 07:24:46 "foo(x)" works in Haskell too. 07:31:48 The VDSO is the first step to Windows-style "syscalls", I guess. 07:32:46 right 07:33:05 except i don't think it will actually move in that direction 07:33:28 Well, they have to keep the kernel ABI stable forever now. 07:33:31 right, foo(x) works in Haskell but is inconsistent with the rest of the language 07:33:39 sizeof(x) is consistent with the rest of C. (sizeof x) is not 07:33:44 anyway 07:33:57 i will do "return (...);" sometimes, not always 07:34:04 The parentheses around "sizeof x" are only necessary if "(sizeof(x))" would've been necessary. 07:34:05 that's more obviously parens for grouping 07:34:14 Otherwise it's just "sizeof x". 07:34:14 shachaf: I know 07:34:34 «sizeof(x)» is consistent with the rest of C. «sizeof x» is not 07:34:58 This seems like a silly argument. :-) 07:35:11 yes 07:35:29 your point about siezof(x)[y] is valid and I had not thought of that before 07:35:33 so i have learned something 07:35:42 but all the same I haven't seen it come up in real code 07:36:09 C has very few expression keywords. 07:36:13 In fact, are there any others? 07:36:27 you mean using letters rather than punctuation? 07:36:35 Yes. 07:37:43 can't think of one 07:38:18 C++ has a fair few 07:38:30 "The sizeof operator yields the size (in bytes) of its operand, which may be an expression or the parenthesized name of a type." 07:39:10 I think another way of thinking about it is that sizeof always takes an expression without parentheses, but you surround it with parentheses in case it's a type, to reduce ambiguity or something. 07:39:37 Expression-keyword-symbols don't generally take parentheses either. 07:40:01 So I'm not sure how much "consistency with the rest of C" there is involved, unless you consider function application. 07:44:14 * itidus21 fires dodgeable segments of laser at shachaf from 50ft away 07:44:18 pew pew pew 07:46:18 yeah, I meant the more superficial consistency of "this looks like a function call" 07:46:26 i realize such things can be misleading 07:46:33 but in this case I don't see a big practical problem 07:46:38 but of course that's argument from lack of imaginatino 07:50:00 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 07:50:56 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:56:37 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:57:18 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 07:57:45 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:02:38 -!- Tiktalik has changed nick to Sleeptalik. 08:18:50 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:19:24 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 08:24:18 -!- azaq23 has joined. 09:06:27 I am unable to golf below: cppbot: -w {for(int p=28075320;p/=2;)cout<<(p==6854?"- ":p&1?"way ":"pon ");} 09:07:56 What does 09:07:57 That do 09:08:12 Nothing useful 09:08:25 01:39 < cppbot> pon pon way way way pon pon way pon way pon - way way pon pon pon way way pon way pon way way 09:08:31 Came up in another channel. 09:08:45 ... 09:08:47 That song? 09:09:04 shachaf: Huh. If it doesn’t use the idle IO priority, that sounds like a bug worth reporting. 09:09:06 Doesn't ring a bell 09:09:25 ion: ? 09:10:23 My computer is rendered mostly unusable by the constant hard disk usage. 09:11:09 ion: Ah. 09:11:21 Well, it seems to be done now, so I've become apathetic again. 09:11:24 CURSE YOU, APATHY 09:11:26 hi monqy 09:12:39 what was your IO job? 09:12:50 /usr/something/tracker 09:13:07 I wish computers were simple. 09:20:20 then they would suck 09:20:30 you can build a shitty simple computer 09:20:49 i do enjoy microcontroller programming for this reason though 09:21:43 I still want to make my own ISA for some FPGA at some point 09:22:01 And then write an awful OS with an IRC client for it 09:22:26 Most (?) complexity involved with computers is incidental, though. 09:22:29 And then I can chat with it using some awful miniscule LCD screen and a PS/2 keyboard 09:22:38 USB keyboard probably way too difficult 09:22:55 If I'm lazy I can still just access it over ethernet 09:23:05 Instead of writing drivers for periphery 09:23:10 http://6004.csail.mit.edu/ is a really cool course where you design a RISC CPU at the level of logic gates 09:23:33 so a bit lower level than usual FPGA work; the logic language is much simpler than verilog or vhdl 09:23:44 I'd probably use VHDL 09:24:01 USB is not *too* bad 09:24:02 I did some superficial IC stuff at university 09:24:06 USB is terrifying man 09:24:13 The standard for that is like 3000 pages 09:24:14 at least, you can implement it in software on a wimpy AVR uC 09:24:22 sure but you don't need the full USB standard to talk to a keyboard ;P 09:24:55 The class was like this http://siyobik.info.gf/misc/cmos-layout.png 09:25:07 nice 09:25:11 The exam would then ask "what logical function does this CMOS circuit implement" 09:25:33 No fun :( 09:25:49 Takes me ages to decode stuff like that on paper 09:36:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:38:46 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:40:13 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:48:22 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:03:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:07:47 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:11:14 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:22:06 -!- cheater_ has joined. 10:35:31 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 10:47:39 -!- derdon has joined. 11:00:14 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:03:42 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:26:32 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:27:45 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:34:42 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:53:32 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 11:57:26 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 12:19:33 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude. 12:25:11 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:27:51 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:30:44 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:30:58 -!- const has quit (Excess Flood). 12:33:18 -!- variable has joined. 12:39:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:21:43 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:45:52 -!- MoALTz has joined. 13:47:25 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:47:33 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 13:50:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:07:25 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 14:10:44 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 14:13:25 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:25:46 -!- asiekierka has joined. 14:42:27 Wow, that's quite the quit message on Patashu there 14:42:35 Should add his credit card number, too 15:14:27 -!- variable has quit (Excess Flood). 15:15:45 -!- variable has joined. 15:23:20 qfr: what quit message? i missed it 15:23:42 [16:07:27] Patashu [~Patashu@c122-106-155-219.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit IRC: Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . 15:29:20 -!- MDude has joined. 15:38:15 -!- zbrown has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:52:54 OK, so this cheapo Chinese tablet is way, WAY better than logic dictates that it should be. 15:53:30 Normally with these things you play the "find the redeeming feature" game, but in this case I'm playing and losing the "find the flaw" game. 16:09:53 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 16:14:10 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:25:55 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]). 16:30:10 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:51:30 -!- elliott has joined. 16:52:09 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: brb). 16:52:26 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:02:51 hey is anyone 188.121.5.150 because that kind of exists already!! 17:03:20 (Edit: is it stackoverflow policy to allow censorship of questions through editing (not minor)? It does say "always respect the original author.") 17:34:08 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:35:38 -!- Deewiant_ has joined. 17:36:54 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:54:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:54:24 bye ais523 17:56:30 elliott: are we having this conversation in reverse, or something? 17:58:02 ais523: If you ask me about the chronology of this conversation one more time, I'm going to end this conversation without even answering! 17:58:10 haha 17:58:16 meanwhile, I've been working on Elliottcraft 17:58:18 not code, but thoughts 17:58:24 you ruined it :'( 17:58:30 i was fully prepared to carry that on for at least half an hour 17:58:34 I'm going to make it work as a cellular automaton, finite speed of sound and speed of light makes it much easier to optimise 17:58:35 but I wasn't 17:59:12 and then I spent much of the rest of the time trying to work out how to implement 3D Hashlife efficiently when at least one of the colors has free will 17:59:53 :D 18:00:10 ais523: we had a php defender in here early this morning! 18:00:23 hashlife in particular seems to scale badly with number of dimensions 18:00:31 although 3 is probably low enough for it to work 18:00:34 it was fun™® 18:00:53 and wow, I thought PHP was only defended by misinformed people 18:01:43 oh, they were most definitely misinformed 18:03:26 also, this has a huge number of possible colors for a typical cellular automaton 18:05:23 I can't really hate PHP defenders, I can only pity them 18:05:38 ais523: you don't understand; they said "haters gonna hate" 18:06:12 07:19:48: sizeof values with parentheses is the devil. :-( 18:06:14 shachaf: no it's not! 18:06:42 RAGE 18:06:49 programming languages final: what does the following do? 18:06:54 filterM $ const [True, False] 18:06:57 07:22:38: For example sizeof(x)[y] === sizeof ((x)[y]) 18:07:01 wait, what? 18:07:02 coppro: powerset 18:07:05 elliott: yeah 18:07:06 I know 18:07:11 still, RAGE 18:07:19 coppro: you got that on your final? 18:07:20 awesome 18:07:48 * elliott thinks it's a pretty good question, actually; it's easy to work out mechanically, or if you have a strong intuition about the list monad 18:07:57 well we had to define filterM first 18:08:02 right, so it's even easier :P 18:08:03 I did it be rewriting it as a list comprehension 18:09:00 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:12:20 07:38:30: "The sizeof operator yields the size (in bytes) of its operand, which may be an expression or the parenthesized name of a type." 18:12:20 07:39:10: I think another way of thinking about it is that sizeof always takes an expression without parentheses, but you surround it with parentheses in case it's a type, to reduce ambiguity or something. 18:12:27 shachaf: This seems like an argument for `sizeof (foo_t)` to me. 18:12:30 :( 18:12:56 elliott: Right, m aybe it is. 18:13:15 elliott: hi elliott 18:13:54 elliott: You got a problem with my syntax? 18:17:12 shachaf: Did you know I used to say "if("? 18:17:22 I think Rob Pike says "if(". 18:17:25 elliott: I BET YOU USED TO PUT NEWLINES BEFORE YOUR {S. 18:17:37 No 18:17:40 *./ 18:17:42 *. 18:17:44 I never did that. 18:17:47 Other than before function bodies. 18:17:56 DISGUSTING 18:18:11 But you probably did it after every if. 18:18:18 Maybe you wrote code like this: 18:18:22 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Peter_Larsen 18:18:23 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:PLarsen 18:18:24 if ( condition ) 18:18:25 http://esolangs.org/wiki/%C3%98rjan_Johansen 18:18:25 { 18:18:27 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Oerjan 18:18:29 I'm scared. 18:18:34 hi ( ); 18:18:35 } 18:19:26 elliott: You also used to declare values like this: 18:19:31 char* value; 18:19:50 -!- monqy has joined. 18:19:54 shachaf: No, I never do that. 18:20:00 Did you know that Deewiant_ refers to the type as (char*)? 18:20:06 Even though he declares the variables properly. 18:20:10 He's awful. 18:20:11 char* str1,* str2; /* - eliot */ 18:21:12 char *(*fn[4])(char (*)(char), int, int); 18:21:28 shachaf: By the way, I have frequently used hard tabs in C code. 18:21:31 I bet that u mad. 18:21:39 did you mix spaces and tabs 18:22:03 monqy: Tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment, yes. (Although I rarely did any alignment when using hard tabs.) 18:22:03 elliott: me mad :( 18:22:34 elliott: are u linux toralavlardsddss 18:22:41 hi monqy 18:22:50 hello 18:23:04 shachaf: You misspelled Linyos Torovoltos. :( 18:23:06 -!- Deewiant_ has changed nick to Deewiant. 18:23:39 elliott: h8r 18:23:49 I always put the { on the same line as the declaration (if it fits), use only spaces for indent/align, and declare like this char*str1; 18:23:52 h8rs gonna "h8', as they say. 18:23:57 ' 18:24:04 Yes, most of that sentence was half-quoted. 18:24:30 if 18:24:34 ( 18:24:44 condition 18:24:46 ) 18:24:50 Maybe you hate my style of C programming but you are not required to use it you can do how you like 18:25:00 { 18:25:05 hi 18:25:09 ( 18:25:14 ) 18:25:16 ; 18:25:19 shachaf: Have you seen ais523's C style? 18:25:21 } 18:25:25 The DNA Maze style. 18:25:36 /* - eliot */ 18:25:37 elliott: admittedly, that one is mostly trolling, but it's grown on me 18:26:21 ais523: Tell shachaf about how all tabs are inherently 8 wide. 18:26:47 elliott: I like to indent my code with seven spaces followed by a tab. 18:26:55 To make sure it know what's up. 18:27:11 I know I don't know what's up. 18:27:23 That's because you're not indented properly. :-( 18:27:28 shachaf: pretty much every application that isn't a dedicated text editor, nor word processor, displays tabs as moving to a multiple of 8 18:27:32 hi monqy 18:27:38 you almost got me 18:27:38 ais523: I know. 18:27:40 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/s6isw/challenge_a_functional_freenet_xpost_from/ I like the part where the "challenge" is "please rewrite this large open-source codebase in Haskell for no good reason". 18:27:40 almost 18:28:04 shachaf: Ask ais523 why every program that lets you set how wide tabs are displayed as is inherently broken. 18:28:13 He wants to tell you. 18:28:31 If ais523 want to tell me, they will. 18:28:42 elliott: it's not setting it that's the issue, it's saving files that assume it 18:28:56 ais523: I didn't tell you to tell me 18:29:03 I told shachaf to ask you to tell him. 18:29:16 I'm correcting you! 18:29:52 For compactness, I use U+1E2A41 ONE-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:01 OR U+1E2A42 TWO-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:09 Or U+1E2A43 THREE-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:14 Or U+1E2A44 FOUR-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:19 Or U+1E2A45 FIVE-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:26 Or U+1E2A46 SIX-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:31 Or U+1E2A47 SEVEN-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:37 Or U+1E2A48 EIGHT-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:40 http://www.colorhexa.com/1e2a45 What a nice colour. 18:30:42 Or U+1E2A49 NINE-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:52 Or U+1E2A4A A-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:56 Or U+1E2A4B B-SPACE INDENTATION 18:30:59 Or U+1E2A4C C-SPACE INDENTATION 18:31:05 Or U+1E2A4D D-SPACE INDENTATION 18:31:10 Or U+1E2A4E E-SPACE INDENTATION 18:31:15 Or U+1E2A4F FIFTEEN-SPACE INDENTATION 18:31:22 Or U+1E2A50 FIFTY-SPACE INDENTATION 18:31:31 Or U+1E2A51 0x51-SPACE INDENTATION 18:31:41 Or U+1E2A52 OUTER-SPACE INDENTATION 18:31:41 I think shachaf forgot how to count. 18:31:50 hey, counting is hard! 18:31:51 Surely outer-space indentation should be A51? 18:31:53 I sure can't do it 18:31:54 Or U+1E2A53 HI-SPACE INDENTATION 18:32:03 A, B, C, D, E, FIFTEEN is perfectly good counting 18:32:07 Or U+1E2A54 ZERO-SPACE INDENTATION 18:32:19 Or U+1E2A55 FIVE-SPACE INDENTATION, REVISITED 18:32:27 ais523: 0x4F = fifteen to 0x60 = fifty is not 18:32:29 erm 18:32:31 ais523: 0x4F = fifteen to 0x50 = fifty is not 18:32:32 Or U+1E2A56 DOUBLE-SPACE INDENTATION 18:32:33 i can't count either! 18:33:19 elliott: I'm sorry. :-( 18:33:27 If I could count I would count. 18:33:32 But I can't count so I won't count. 18:34:06 This is how I write a C program (it is CWEB): http://repo.or.cz/w/TeXnicard.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/texnicard.w 18:34:12 Can we publish those new Unicode characters? 18:34:15 *codepints 18:34:30 elliott: Did you know the three advantages of Haskell are: 18:34:36 1. Speed 18:34:40 2. performance 18:34:44 3. parallel execution 18:35:20 Which makes it the ULTIMATE PARADIGM TO WRITE FREENET IN 18:35:22 ? 18:35:27 Yes. 18:35:31 Outer-space indentation? 18:35:50 shachaf: You should read TeXnicard. 18:36:09 elliott: Honestly, though, paradigms aren't worth much. 18:36:14 Just my $0.20. 18:36:47 (DO YOU GET IT, FELLOW INHABITANTS OF AMERICANIA IN THIS CHANNEL?????) 18:37:50 ais523: Can you kick shachaf? 18:38:02 It is the largest C program I have written which is not yet complete; the only dependency at compile-time is a subset of LodePNG, and there are no dependencies at runtime; however, you will probably want METAFONT or some other program that creates TFM/GF fonts, if you want to use this program effectively. 18:38:20 shachaf: try toning it down a bit :) 18:38:29 ais523: Toning what down? 18:38:34 the ribbing of elliott 18:38:42 Wait, when did I rib elliott? 18:38:48 I was just making a pun. 18:39:00 ais523: By the way, you should kick me. 18:39:53 Sounds like consensus to me. 18:40:32 (If you want to use TrueType, OpenType, Adobe Type1, etc, then you will first need to convert it into TFM/GF format before they can be used for this purpose.) 18:40:58 zzo38: But I want to use Adobe Type1 and I hate converting fonts. 18:41:36 elliott: Did you manage to golf that C++ snippet down? 18:41:48 shachaf: Too bad... TeXnicard only support TFM/GF. If you prefer, you can modify TeXnicard to load Adobe Type1, but this is not recommended. 18:41:55 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10156269/haskell-data-type-error I like how this question is full of lies. 18:42:10 shachaf: Which fonts are you trying to use anyways? 18:42:15 zzo38: Adobe Type1 18:42:36 shachaf: No I mean which specific typeface 18:42:53 It's called "Adobe Type1". 18:43:01 It's in TFM/GF format. 18:43:14 shachaf: Do you like how that question is full of lies? 18:43:15 shachaf: Then you can use it. 18:44:06 zzo38: I'm sorry. That question was full of lies. :-( 18:44:24 zzo38: Would you forgive me. :-( 18:44:33 shachaf: What C++ snippet? 18:44:36 shachaf: OK 18:45:25 elliott: {for(int p=56149304;p/=2;)cout<<(p==6854?"- ":p&1?"way ":"pon ");} 18:45:43 :t showHex 18:45:44 forall a. (Integral a) => a -> String -> String 18:45:47 > showHex 56149304 "" 18:45:48 "358c538" 18:45:59 Won't help you. 18:46:01 It is still preferable to use native TFM/GF fonts since they will use a different units of measurement. TrueType, OpenType, etc uses 1/7200 inch measurements, while TFM/GF uses 1/4736286.72 inch measurements. 18:46:03 > comparing length "0x358c538" "56149304" 18:46:04 GT 18:46:07 Hmph. 18:46:20 > comparing length "puts" "cout<<" 18:46:21 LT 18:46:28 {for(int p=56149304;p/=2;)puts(p==6854?"- ":p&1?"way ":"pon ");} 18:46:32 Oh, that outputs a newline. 18:46:33 elliott: Newlines. :-( 18:46:36 > comparing length "printf" "cout<<" 18:46:36 EQ 18:46:47 > comparing length "write(0," "cout<<" 18:46:48 GT 18:46:59 `factor 56149304 18:47:08 56149304: 2 2 2 769 9127 18:47:21 > 2*2*2*769 18:47:22 6152 18:47:30 > comparing length "6152*9127" "56149304" 18:47:32 GT 18:47:34 Sigh. 18:47:55 The 1/4736286.72 inch measurements have a better potential of saving paper, when printing books and so on. 18:48:02 > 2**(ceiling (logBase 2 56149304)) 18:48:03 Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints: 18:48:03 `GHC.Float.Floating a' 18:48:03 ... 18:48:07 > 2^(ceiling (logBase 2 56149304)) 18:48:08 67108864 18:48:13 > 2^(ceiling (logBase 2 56149304 + 1)) 18:48:14 134217728 18:48:19 Because they use traditional points instead of DTP points. 18:48:27 > ceiling (logBase 2 56149304 + 1) 18:48:28 27 18:48:30 > ceiling (logBase 2 56149304) 18:48:31 26 18:48:40 > 67108864-56149304 18:48:41 10959560 18:48:53 *sigh*. (I was hoping for 1<<26-x or something.) 18:49:16 shachaf: Wait, p==6854 is !(p-6854). 18:49:17 I agree with kicking shachaf. 18:49:17 Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 18:49:18 So just flip the conditional. 18:49:28 Kicking shachaf is the best shachaf. 18:49:32 He kicks so much! 18:51:05 elliott++ 18:52:41 elliott: ~1<<26-x would only work if the output was very regular. 18:52:54 Because the number is just a base-2 encoding of the output. 18:53:13 By "regular" I don't mean "regular", I mean "having a lot of one string or the other in a row". 18:53:26 !cxx for(int p=56149304;p/=2;)cout<<(p==6854?"- ":p&1?"way ":"pon "); 18:53:37 pon pon way way way pon pon way pon way pon pon - way way pon pon pon way way pon way pon way way 18:53:55 !cxx {for(int p=56149304;p/=2;)cout<<(p-6854?p&1?"way ":"pon ":"- ");} 18:54:01 pon pon way way way pon pon way pon way pon pon - way way pon pon pon way way pon way pon way way 18:54:25 This is difficult. :( 18:54:46 !oeis 0,0,1,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1 18:54:53 elliott: Oh, come on. 18:55:06 @oeis 0,0,1,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1 18:55:14 elliott: Now I want to make an IRC bot/website/whatever for team code golf. 18:55:16 Sequence not found. 18:55:25 shachaf: That's called #anagol. 18:55:31 How does it work? 18:55:42 By... talking. 18:55:53 (It's the channel for http://golf.shinh.org/.) 18:56:04 I mean a thing where N teams get a "challenge" and a time limit, and each team works together to golf it. 18:56:17 That's, like, so formal. 18:56:28 Anyway, hmm. 18:56:31 You could make in interesting in all sorts of ways. 18:56:33 @where e_10 18:56:33 let(!)=div;f n=1:n:1:f(n+2);w@(x:y)%[a,b,c,d]|t<-a!c,c+d>1,t==b!d=t:w%[10*(a-c*t),10*(b-d*t),c,d]|0<1=y%[x*a+b,a,x*c+d,c]in(2:f 2)%[1,0,0,1]>>=show 18:56:40 Come on, there has to be some magical sequence behind that. 18:57:52 elliott: After I was shown where the sequence comes from, I decided I don't want to know. 18:58:49 !oeis 2,3,2,1,1,1,2,2,3,2,1,1,1,2 18:58:52 @oeis 2,3,2,1,1,1,2,2,3,2,1,1,1,2 18:59:00 Sequence not found. 18:59:12 OEIS sucks. 18:59:16 elliott: Almost all strings of bits aren't OEIS sequences. 18:59:17 is there a string concatenation operator like + ? 18:59:46 Um... 18:59:48 :t (++) 18:59:48 elliott: And even if you find a sequence, the effort of decoding it will take more than N characters. 18:59:48 ? 18:59:49 forall m. (Monoid m) => m -> m -> m 18:59:56 in C++ 19:00:08 Mathnerd314: + works, for std::trings. 19:00:39 Maybe I should just gzip the output. 19:01:14 elliott: I hear that that's often the best way to win these. :-( 19:01:36 Well, C++ doesn't have a gzip decoder in the standard library. 19:01:40 So it would be quite a feat. 19:01:45 Right. 19:01:49 But other languages do. 19:01:58 Which makes coming up with specifications tricky. 19:02:57 elliott: Anyway, you should definitely make that website/IRC bot/whatever. 19:04:43 "Perhaps you'd better paste the exact code you use that gives an error together with the exact error you got, rather than the correct code and the error for some invisible code we can't see." Bruuuuuuuuuun 19:08:29 most shameful 19:14:05 zzo38: What is better: TeXnicard or MSE? 19:14:09 Also, what's MSE? 19:14:38 shachaf: MSE is Magic Set Editor. I think TeXnicard is better even though it is not yet complete. Some other people also say so simply due to MSE being pretty bad. 19:15:03 so basically when Icant sum something I can use on 19:16:47 http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Language_list&oldid=8 19:16:50 Phantom_Hoover: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Language_list&oldid=8 19:18:54 What of it? 19:19:01 Phantom_Hoover: It's your favourite language! 19:19:14 I have nothing against Brainfuck? 19:19:16 @tell oerjan Oh, "grm" means "grammar"! I assumed you were just mumbling-grunting at all the people who wrote bad. 19:19:16 Consider it noted. 19:19:20 Phantom_Hoover: *brainfuck 19:19:24 Except maybe that its design is too modular. 19:19:41 But that's not really anything against it either. 19:19:46 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:21:38 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 19:24:32 heads up: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Pict 19:25:17 dysoco: x+x isn't x, 19:25:17 dysoco: it's twice as big as x 19:25:26 i wonder if it would be hard to write a compiler for lisp in haskell, that could translate all of maxima, into haskell code, and have a full featured CAS in haskell... 19:25:28 #haskell, guys! 19:25:55 elliott: Did you see the exciting adventures of yesterday? 19:25:58 elliott: oh, I went to KFC yesterday 19:25:59 No. 19:26:06 ais523: Congratulations! 19:26:08 and my opinion is: it's mostly very bland, and when it isn't you wish it was 19:26:09 Parallelism and I were having a char about parallelism and concurrency. 19:26:19 I think I probably won't go there again 19:28:09 shachaf: A char? 19:28:12 Was it 8 bits? 19:28:30 It was 64 bits. :-( 19:29:54 «hi,im 64 bit "char" :'(» - eliot 19:30:12 shachaf: Anyway, link me up, man. 19:30:19 To what? 19:30:21 It was just logs. 19:30:26 You're better off not reading them. 19:31:25 shachaf: I totally want logs. 19:32:08 «i;ll cut dwon trees :'( - elliott» -- eliot 19:32:22 ais523: You should kick shachaf. 19:32:45 ais523: Please, ais523, kick me! 19:33:08 12:31 < zhulikas> how can I force evaluation of something? 19:33:10 12:32 < mcstar> $!, !, seq, deepseq? 19:33:14 12:32 < zhulikas> thanks 19:33:19 12:32 < zhulikas> :))) 19:34:17 12:34 < reinoud> what does it mean with: Use `+RTS -Ksize -RTS' to increase it. 19:34:20 12:34 < reinoud> ?? 19:34:20 ais523: You should totally kick shachaf! 19:34:22 elliott: Why am I even in there? 19:34:24 12:34 < rasfar> i'm in type constraint hell, can anyone help?!... 19:34:24 He's flooding and stuff. 19:34:31 THAT'S RIGHT 19:34:34 +RTS? Isn't that some serial modem command stuff? 19:34:38 No, wait, that was +AT0? 19:34:45 12:34 < reinoud> what does it mean with: Use `+RTS -Ksize -RTS' to increase it. 19:34:45 reinoud: you must compile with -rtsopts 19:34:49 THE ANTEDILUVIAN KICK 19:34:58 Ohhh, that's GHC stuff 19:35:18 shachaf too funny, just yesterday I discovered an interesting black metal band from Canada going by that name! 19:35:18 There should be a GNU Haskell Compiler and it should be called gch. 19:35:30 GNU Compiler of Haskell 19:35:34 Wait. 19:35:40 I thought you had not swapped. 19:35:43 So I swapped them to clash the acronym. 19:35:45 But you had swapped. 19:35:48 ais523: Kick shachaf. :( 19:35:55 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:36:30 «shahcahef foiled myy jkoe :'( - eliot hird kick him - eliottt» - elliott 19:37:11 elliott: As they say in Hebrew, "ata hafachta veani hafachti uvechol zot ze nish'ar hafuch" 19:37:19 I think that's "ve'ani". 19:37:47 ais523: I don't know what shachaf just said, but you should probably kick him for it. 19:38:12 ais523: Kick me for it! 19:38:38 elliott: (It means: "you inverted and I inverted and nevertheless it remained inverted".) 19:38:41 (Kind of.) 19:38:42 -!- ais523 has left (" fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api"). 19:39:26 Now shachaf kicked ais523. :( 19:39:32 As they say in Arabic, "ana la kaafir al yahudi wa 'ashadu muhammad al mahdi sharaqa" 19:39:44 He doesn't wish to be associated with this channel 19:39:51 Can you blame him? Can you? 19:40:20 «i can blame him :'( - eliot - eliot - eliot» - eliot 19:40:41 elliott: Does this channel have any ops other than oerjan and ais523? 19:41:10 fizzie. 19:41:30 fizzie: Kick me! 19:41:46 fizziew: Kick me! 19:41:50 Hah, finally I know who the hidden ops are! 19:41:57 hidden ops 19:41:59 hops 19:42:02 CALL THE HOPS 19:42:04 No, that's "half ops" 19:42:07 Usually % 19:42:19 elliott: Do they call cops "cops" in UKania? 19:42:49 Coppers! 19:43:35 896 users in haskell O_O 19:44:23 #haskell is useless. 19:44:26 Just ask kmc. 19:51:18 shachaf: Anyway, you should kick yourself. 19:51:33 shachaf: Kick me! 19:51:34 shachaf: No. 19:51:41 shachaf: :-( 19:52:05 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:52:15 hi oerjan, monqy 19:52:16 hi monqy 19:52:52 . 19:53:16 hi mnoqy 19:53:27 hi 19:53:29 hi shachaf 19:53:35 hi KingOfKarlsruhe, monqy, monqy 19:54:48 what is it with you and saying hi to me 19:55:44 [21:43:37] 896 users in haskell O_O 19:55:51 896 people who talk about Haskell 19:55:57 About 8 of them actually code in Haskell 19:56:09 haha it's funny because 19:57:05 monqy++ 19:57:35 I fail to see how it's funny, it strikes me as rather alarming 19:58:02 qfr: you remind me of itidus21 19:58:18 What are they like? 19:58:27 rather, you just reminded me of itidus21 right now. I don't know what you're like at other times 19:58:34 itidus21 is itidus21 19:58:36 `? itidus21 19:58:41 itidus21 just made some instant coffee. 19:58:47 `? itidus20 19:58:48 I don't drink coffee 19:58:49 Failed to clone the environment! 19:58:52 I drink tea only 19:59:02 instant tea? 19:59:33 guys i have a joke 19:59:34 No, Indian spice tea with cow milk 19:59:35 brace yourselves 19:59:41 the joke is : " people don't use haskell" 19:59:43 are you laughing 19:59:45 yes 19:59:54 my insides are hurting 19:59:56 from all this laughter 20:00:00 that's the crotch scorpion 20:00:02 it's normal 20:00:11 i just vomited from laughter 20:00:13 are you happy 20:00:23 -!- Sleeptalik has changed nick to Tiktalik. 20:00:24 I once vomited from laughter. 20:00:29 As in actually. 20:00:34 elliott: haskell users are not people? 20:00:57 double joke 20:01:16 monqy: don't worry the scorpions like the vomit 20:02:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:02:48 oerjan: elliott would like you to kick me. 20:02:53 I, too, would like you to kick me. 20:02:56 QED: kick me 20:03:07 no. 20:03:07 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 20:03:11 @messages 20:03:12 elliott said 43m 55s ago: Oh, "grm" means "grammar"! I assumed you were just mumbling-grunting at all the people who wrote bad. 20:03:13 @messages oerjan 20:03:13 You don't have any new messages. 20:03:29 elliott: haha i've answered a question in #haskell KingOfKarlsruhe += 1 20:03:51 KingOfKarlsruhe *= -4/pi 20:03:57 elliott: no, that would be "grmbl" 20:04:53 * oerjan assumes kmc has been dronk recently 20:04:56 oerjan: well "grm" is shorter 20:05:08 no, that wonderful topic arose from a fine hour-long discussion with someone who likes php 20:05:15 aha 20:05:17 they wrote an aim hecker in php, you see 20:05:30 what's a hecker 20:05:32 of course kmc is no longer with us. he awoke to find his aim thoroughly hecked. 20:05:40 oerjan: who knows??? 20:05:43 oh no 20:06:18 elliott: Did you know .tm will only accept 10-year registrations? 20:06:24 Also, it costs >$100/year. 20:06:26 come to think of it, probably a synonym for crocker 20:08:02 `quote aim hecker 20:08:05 832) aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u (corruption of "aim heckler") 20:08:06 maybe that will help you??? 20:10:52 no, it doesn't help me 20:12:00 shachaf: "The minimum registration period is 10 years and the retail cost is US$1000 for the 10 year period. As we prefer you to use the services of a .TM accredited Registrars, please note that most of them offer discount off our retail price" 20:12:04 That's just the price if you get it directly. 20:12:13 See http://nic.tm/registrars.html. 20:13:14 elliott: OH, WELL, ONE REGISTRAR CHARGED *MORE* THAN $1000 20:13:18 TAKE THAT 20:14:23 18:18:29: I'm scared. 20:14:37 i'd assume he copied my pages... 20:15:13 oerjan: Either that, *or* he's you from another universe, *or* he's stalking you and planning to one day kill you and wear your skin and live your life, *or* ... 20:15:29 I'm just sayin'... 20:15:35 Also, this implies oerjan skipped all that fun PHP talk. :( 20:16:22 also, http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:PLarsen 20:16:34 elliott: the logs were _long_ today 20:16:52 stalking you and planning to one day kill you and wear your skin and live your life sounds like fun 20:16:57 oerjan: long and _funny_ 20:17:31 hm ok 20:17:46 * oerjan considers browsing through it. but thinks it may be time to eat. 20:19:38 I like the part where this guy has been using Haskell and Miranda for 20 years and still thinks we should have a magical expression that changes its value every time you use it. 20:29:56 @hoogle unique 20:29:57 Data.Unique module Data.Unique 20:29:57 Data.Unique data Unique 20:29:57 package uniqueid 20:30:24 @hoogle IO Unique 20:30:24 Did you mean: :: IO Unique 20:30:25 No results found 20:30:30 @hoogle :: IO Unique 20:30:31 Data.Unique newUnique :: IO Unique 20:30:31 System.Exit exitFailure :: IO a 20:30:31 System.Exit exitSuccess :: IO a 20:42:53 kallisti, i wonder what i should do to best benefit from your presence? 20:43:24 did kallisti quit #esoteric 20:44:41 Seemingly. 20:46:55 hi monqy 20:47:05 did the old monqy quit #esoteric :( 20:47:08 the old monqy had a soul 20:47:12 the old monqy said hi 20:47:20 everyone liked the old monqy 20:47:40 I like how rasfar keeps complaining about problems with their code but refuses to post it because posting part of it means they might as well post it all and if they do that people will criticise it and it's secret. 20:49:58 shachaf: new monqy is kind of like old monqy; he just doesn't say hi 20:50:28 monqy: but the old monqy was hi :( 20:50:41 exactly! 20:50:59 "i wish the old monqy was still here. i miss the old monqy" - shachef 20:51:12 stop parphrasing 20:51:26 * shachaf , parephrased 20:52:23 shachaf: are you old monqy 20:52:30 a scary thought! 20:52:32 monqy: no :( 20:52:37 monqy: old monqy is contained within you 20:52:41 let old monqy free 20:52:42 say hi 20:54:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:55:16 old monqy really didn't say hi all that much until quite recently, right? 20:55:20 old hi and all 20:55:51 Does this Haskell class have any use? class Contravariant f => Counterpoint f where { counterpoint :: x -> f (f x); }; 21:04:35 hm reminds me of dual vector spaces 21:05:27 and galois connections and stuff 21:06:50 `? monqy 21:06:53 The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. 21:07:35 oerjan: I don't know what those things are, but this is one such instance of this class: instance Counterpoint (Op x) where { counterpoint x = Op (($ x) . getOp); }; 21:07:54 (It is similar to the instance for continuations, but on a contravariant functor) 21:09:29 zzo38: the dual vector space version is also of that form, since that automatically becomes linear if Op contains a linear function(al) 21:11:41 i assume Op x y = Op { getOp :: y -> x } 21:13:10 oerjan: Yes 21:14:05 Op Void would be logical negation... 21:15:23 Is it my fault old monqy said hi so much? 21:15:24 :/ 21:15:55 "fault" is not the word i would use 21:17:00 i don't remember a previous time when monqy _didn't_ say hi, so... 21:17:49 Sgeo: you probably contributed heavily yes 21:17:57 Sgeo: but it was finally shachaf that ruined it 21:37:17 oerjan: that Op is defined in contravariant, yes 21:37:31 `addquote and then I spent much of the rest of the time trying to work out how to implement 3D Hashlife efficiently when at least one of the colors has free will 21:37:32 zzo38: I thought Counterpoint might be kind of like Contramonad, on top of Contraapplicative 21:37:34 833) and then I spent much of the rest of the time trying to work out how to implement 3D Hashlife efficiently when at least one of the colors has free will 21:37:43 which is 21:37:55 contraunit :: f Void; contrazip :: f a -> f b -> f (Either a b) 21:37:57 Implementing free will is a trick. 21:38:21 oerjan: did you enjoy the PHP discussion :D 21:39:03 elliott: cannot say i see the point much 21:40:03 oerjan: It sounds like your aim is hecked. 21:40:26 *hexed 21:40:37 otherwise, yes that's the story of my life 21:42:36 ....free will? 21:42:55 oerjan: maybe you could try aim hecking it again to put it back? 21:45:30 ooh 21:45:44 oerjan: i hear there's a nice php tool for that... 21:46:11 shiny 21:46:42 you're still talking about php 21:46:45 over 9000 hours later 21:46:52 why are you all such angry people 21:47:57 kmc: well my aim was hecked 21:48:04 now i can only aim my talkings at php 21:48:06 i spent a lot of time taking psychedelic drugs with CS students and they tend to say things like ais523's quote up there 21:48:24 Before or after the drugs? 21:48:31 inside the drugs 21:49:22 yes 21:49:34 ´log *. kmc: is anyone really ever "outside" drugs 21:49:54 just sayin' 21:50:06 ´log .* does anyone want to tell hagb4rd how to type a backtick 21:50:36 please 21:50:40 ` 21:50:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 21:50:58 `log .* Failed to clone the environment! 21:51:10 aha 21:51:37 RocketJSquirrel: 21:52:18 thats bad because it's exactly what i want you to do hackego 21:52:25 RocketJSquirrel: ^ 21:52:53 `log .*\ elliott, you played through the update? 21:53:26 No output. 21:53:47 wellywell 21:54:32 Sgeo: Yes. 21:54:54 lol 21:54:57 `log .*\ 2011-06-16.txt:11:39:31: Patashu: I'm just quoting the changelog 21:56:28 i guess that's not what the cs students tend to say while on psychedelic drugs :( 22:02:39 shachaf: What is the type of a closure, man? 22:03:26 elliott: I look in #haskell, 22:03:34 "haskell" on StackOverflow, /r/haskell 22:03:37 I can't find it. 22:04:29 Is that... a haiku? 22:04:32 !cxx for(int p=56149304;p/=2;)cout<<(p==6854?"- ":p&1?"way ":"pon "); 22:04:38 pon pon way way way pon pon way pon way pon pon - way way pon pon pon way way pon way pon way way 22:04:53 Wait, why do people say strong typing is unfriendly to beginners? 22:05:04 because it hurts them with its strength 22:05:08 "doesnt know its own streng" - strong typ 22:05:09 oerjan: We shortened it from that. 22:05:10 It's really not hard to understand the basic principle that numbers and strings are different. 22:05:19 oh? 22:05:24 !cxx for(int p=56149304;p/=2;)cout<<(p-6854?p&1?"way ":"pon ":"- "); 22:05:24 If anything, it's less intuitive for them to be the /same/. 22:05:29 pon pon way way way pon pon way pon way pon pon - way way pon pon pon way way pon way pon way way 22:05:41 Phantom_Hoover: they say it because it suits their agenda to say it 22:05:57 Phantom_Hoover: consider THIS: 22:05:58 would you rather have 22:05:59 oh that 22:06:00 -a python, or 22:06:01 And the Obstructive Cynic award goes to... kmc! 22:06:03 -haskell b curry 22:06:05 in a brithday party 22:06:07 for a kide??? 22:06:19 Qi.Ez.Du 22:06:28 can i have a monqy 22:06:31 Well Haskell had a daughter so he probably knew how kids worked?? 22:06:37 oops monqy doesnttnst say hi :( 22:06:46 i dnont wnat a mnoqyy :( 22:06:56 Phantom_Hoover: but can he give LOVE like a python can 22:07:07 (Haskell Curry's daughter dated Alonzo Church's son, can you tell that this is my FAVOURITE FACT?) 22:07:22 elliott, probably, how do you think he got a child in the first place 22:08:01 @pl \xs -> map (id &&& (`count` xs)) xs 22:08:02 map =<< (id &&&) . flip count 22:09:09 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]). 22:09:19 &&& sections, excellent 22:09:23 > nub "xyx" 22:09:24 "xy" 22:09:39 monqy hi 22:09:44 lo 22:10:01 all of these not-his feel so fake 22:10:02 monqy: If I called you on the phone would you say hi? 22:10:10 I'm having hi withdrawal 22:10:17 monqy: Just say it. 22:10:18 hi monqy 22:10:24 hey 22:10:25 There's no substitute. 22:10:27 Nope. 22:10:31 It just feels wrong. 22:11:01 Phantom_Hoover: Do *you* know what the type of a closure is? 22:11:19 elliott: "struct Closure" 22:11:41 shachaf: WRONG 22:12:06 :( hi monqy 22:12:10 elliott: What is it? 22:13:47 shachaf: The type of a closure of a is ∃s.(s→a). 22:14:49 shachaf: I bet you didn't know that! 22:15:18 @pl \x xs -> x : filter (/= x) xs 22:15:18 liftM2 (.) (:) (filter . (/=)) 22:16:25 shachaf: I BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT 22:17:03 elliott: (a::*) -> ((s::*), s-> a) 22:17:25 shachaf: No, the a isn't universally quantified, silly. 22:17:33 type Closure a = ∃s.(s→a) 22:17:36 Oh, it's free. 22:17:45 "closure of a" 22:18:01 I don't know a good name for "closure with value type a". :( 22:18:15 "x" 22:18:17 "a-closure" 22:18:20 "closed a" 22:18:23 "hi a" 22:19:00 good day a 22:19:04 hi monqy 22:19:09 hi a, monqy, hi 22:19:11 h 22:19:14 (Of course, the statement "Closure a is isomorphic to a" is equivalent to the statement "this language has implicit closures".) 22:19:16 (Which Haskell does.) 22:19:17 say it 22:19:23 monqy: no 22:19:27 h 22:19:28 i 22:19:28 hi 22:19:34 thanks for the spelling 22:19:46 yroreur're wlelcoeme. 22:32:52 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 22:33:01 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (Changing host). 22:33:01 -!- Madoka-Kaname has joined. 22:37:53 Phantom_Hoover: Do *you* know what the type of a closure is? 22:38:05 You mean a Haskell monad one? 22:38:09 Phantom_Hoover: Hint: It's x. 22:39:00 Phantom_Hoover: What? 22:39:26 What? 22:39:51 Phantom_Hoover: A Haskell monad what? 22:40:03 ahaskellmonadsayswhat 22:40:25 Closure, i.e. a closure as realised by the one with the monad that I forget the name -- wait that's continuations FFS. 22:41:45 Phantom_Hoover is dum 22:41:52 kmc: Do YOU know what the type of a closure is??? 22:42:12 forall a.a. 22:42:39 Phantom_Hoover: WRONGE 22:43:00 exists a. a 22:43:11 forall a. s.t. exists a. a. a 22:43:21 Haskell needs a "s.t." keyword. 22:43:44 oerjan: WRONGE 22:43:46 shachaf: that's -> 22:43:53 oerjan: NO IT'S | 22:43:55 oerjan: Specifically the question is "what is the type of a closure with value type 'a'". 22:43:59 shachaf, it'd be more useful in exists. 22:44:05 elliott: a 22:44:07 ha 22:44:10 oerjan: NOPE 22:44:18 It's ∃s.(s→a). 22:44:31 *GASP* 22:44:57 MAYBE IT'S ∃s.(s,s→a) 22:45:07 Wait. 22:45:08 I was off because I was playing Dungeons&Dragons game after I typed the message about Counterpoint 22:45:10 Yes, shachaf is right. 22:45:11 I like that type better. 22:45:13 I'm dumb. 22:45:22 oerjan: IT'S ACTUALLY ∃s.(s,s→a) HTH. 22:45:33 elliott: THAT MAKES MORE SENSE 22:45:49 shachaf: It looks similar to the Store comonad type 22:46:42 The store comonad is \s a -> (s, s -> a) 22:47:05 hi zzo38 22:47:21 Okay, a closure is ∃s.(Store s a). 22:47:22 Just for today. 22:47:23 For zzo38. 22:47:32 yay 22:47:40 zzo38++ # saved the today 22:47:40 oerjan: Did you know that??? 22:47:45 I bet you didn't know a closure had either of those types. 22:49:38 I don't know what a closure is 22:50:55 zzo38: A closure is ∃s.(Store s a). 22:51:02 See definition 5 above. 22:51:35 O, that is what it is. 22:53:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(computer_science) 22:53:17 That page lies. :( 22:53:23 It says it has to be a function. 22:55:43 ooh closures are comonads? 22:56:16 i suppose that makes sense 22:56:45 hi im comonad - monqy 22:57:27 in fact that works with a _general_ comonad, i think 22:58:02 c.Comonad c => c a 22:58:10 or something 22:58:13 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:58:13 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:59:11 General Comonad, commander of the colonel. 22:59:22 ooh closures are comonads? 22:59:27 oerjan: hm extract is obvious but what is duplicate doing... 23:00:07 ouch 23:00:29 ? 23:00:43 wait 23:00:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:00:46 is that store type right 23:01:12 yes, it is 23:01:14 hmm 23:01:21 I guess duplicate isn't really doing much interesting :) 23:04:12 Do you know what is the criteria needed for callCC with Codensity? I know that (Codensity (Const r)) is like (Cont r) so that can callCC (Peirce's law) but is there a more general criteria? 23:05:15 oerjan: (I was wondering about the type of closures because I want a language without implicit closures) 23:05:30 I have noticed that: (Const x) is both Functor and Contravariant, regardless of x; if x is Monoid then (Const x) is also Applicative and Alternative 23:08:56 elliott, Phantom_Hoover monqy UPDATE 23:09:28 I 23:09:34 don't know how to tell you this but 23:09:38 I don't think monqy cares. 23:10:38 I'm pretty sure I carefully asked if he wants to be on the list 23:10:47 He said no matter how much he mocks, he does. Or was that you? 23:10:59 Me. 23:11:06 No, he said that. 23:11:06 MST3k time 23:11:10 monqy, that is. 23:12:15 I thought monqy stopped following it? 23:16:12 Phantom_Hoover: Do you know what the Isle of Man is? 23:16:35 Yes? 23:16:42 Hint: That area is so complicated, even elliott doesn't understand it. 23:16:49 It's an island. 23:17:04 Sure it's an island. 23:17:09 Nuh-uh! It's a "a self-governing Crown Dependency of the United Kingdom". 23:17:10 But what is it an island *of*? 23:17:11 Called Mann. Or the Isle of Man. 23:17:16 It's an a a. 23:17:29 The best part is the part where the Crown Dependencies have nothing to do with the UK. 23:18:25 It's effectively a self-governing bit of the UK; people who say otherwise are boring and you should give them a wide berth at parties. 23:18:31 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:18:35 Phantom_Hoover: It is not part of the uK! 23:18:36 *UK 23:18:40 "The Crown Dependencies are British possessions of the Crown, as opposed to overseas territories of the United Kingdom." 23:18:53 "Being independently administered jurisdictions, none forms part of the United Kingdom or of the European Union." 23:18:57 The royals just own it, or something. 23:18:57 so basically it's an island in england? 23:19:00 Well now we know who not to talk to at the next #esoteric meetup. 23:19:02 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:19:15 olsner, it's got no particular connection to /England/. 23:19:16 elliott: lol wait, the royal family fucking OWNS countries? 23:19:17 (i.e. just like ireland) 23:19:21 olsner: ;__; 23:19:26 RocketJSquirrel: Well, "the Crown" does. 23:19:33 RocketJSquirrel, the Crown owns a ridiculous amount, 23:19:33 Fair enough, fair enough. 23:19:35 RocketJSquirrel: I think "the Crown" means "symbolically, the royals". 23:19:38 Right. 23:19:43 "But actually just 'the UK, sort of, except not really'." 23:19:45 The abstract entity which represents British royaldom. 23:19:46 See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_estate 23:20:05 "it is no longer the private property of the reigning monarch and cannot be sold by him/her" 23:20:07 Awwwwwwww maaaan 23:20:16 It means "de jure, the monarch, de facto, the government". 23:20:17 "The Crown is a corporation sole that in the Commonwealth realms and any provincial or state sub-divisions thereof represents the legal embodiment of governance, whether executive, legislative, or judicial." 23:20:31 Does this mean our head of state is technically a corporation? 23:20:36 Please say yes. 23:20:42 "our"? 23:20:46 I... maybe. 23:21:05 elliott: Isn't London also a corporation? 23:21:06 My brain is turning to mush. 23:21:11 "technically" 23:21:15 RocketJSquirrel: You see how complicated the UK is??? 23:21:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: *). 23:21:26 shachaf: Not London. 23:21:28 The City of London. 23:21:31 elliott: I feel like I'm scraping a snow cone off the tip of an iceberg. 23:21:33 Not the same thing! 23:21:34 So yeah, the Crown Estate includes over half the UK's beaches, nearly all the seabed and all of our oil. 23:21:38 And the City of London isn't the city known as London. 23:21:41 It's a tiny part of that city. 23:21:44 can monqy have some oil 23:21:47 hi monqy 23:21:49 hi oil 23:22:00 ...All of the wild mussels and oysters in Scotland, for some reason. 23:22:01 http://www.focalprice.com/CE0031W/HYUNDAI_A7_7_Capacitive_Android_40_Tablet_with_3G_WiFi_White.html <-- also, this device is way better than logic dictates it should be. 23:22:11 Phantom_Hoover: X-D 23:22:47 Phantom_Hoover: Is the UK a corporation too? 23:22:49 It's gotta be. 23:22:52 Also, if you go bankrupt or dissolve a company all property goes the the Crown. 23:23:06 Oh, also the water mains. 23:23:12 can u be the crocwnwnn???? 23:23:14 s/u/i/ 23:24:11 elliott, the Archbishop of Canterbury is a corporation too. 23:24:14 What. 23:24:17 Seriously? 23:24:45 can i be corprotatione 23:24:47 :'( 23:24:51 Phantom_Hoover: OK, so shachaf has so far been able to reduce cocky-about-the-structure-of-the-UK people into confusion twice. 23:24:56 I think the sticking point here is that 'corporation' is way broader than the usual meaning; the usual meaning is just by far the most often used. 23:24:56 I think we need to lock him up. 23:25:12 in the us, corporations are persons. in the uk, persons are corporations. 23:25:25 Hey, I've always known that I have no idea how the Crown works. 23:25:25 THE UK = SOVIET RUSSIA AM I RIGHT 23:25:31 WHAT DOES VERONICA: OF THE CHAPMAN FAMILY THINK ABOUT ALL THIS 23:25:44 Freecorporation on the land 23:26:06 It's entwined into like every public thing in the UK. 23:26:31 Is elliott a corporation? 23:26:34 gasp 23:26:42 Corporelliott 23:26:45 Phantom_Hoover: It's like the UK is some massive codebase that's been ported from assembly to FORTRAN to COBOL and now nobody knows how it actually works. 23:26:53 (Here, assembly represents feudalism) 23:27:00 Elliotts are people, too. 23:27:18 Basically, corporations sole are offices (*not* people) which are assigned to a single person but are seperate from them. 23:27:20 elliott: gasp 23:27:24 UK = TeX AM I RIGHT 23:27:48 That makes TeX = UK. 23:27:54 So Rowan Williams is the Archbishop of Canterbury, but the Archbishop of Canterbury is not Robin Williams-- wait how is that less confusing. 23:28:05 Williams++ 23:29:05 elliott: Is there a word that means: "crown + uk + british isles + great britain + ireland + northern ireland + republic of ireland + scotland + england + commonwealth + overseas territories + crown dependencies + ..."? 23:29:08 Phantom_Hoover: Are you *sure* Robin Williams isn't the Archbishop of Canterbury? 23:29:21 shachaf: "england" 23:29:27 "Robin McLaurin Williams[2][3] (born July 21, 1951)[4] is an American actor and comedian, and also the Archbishop of Canterbury." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Williams 23:29:34 olsner: oh ok thnx olsnerr 23:29:34 shachaf: "United Kingdom" 23:29:40 elliott: oh ok thnx olsnerr 23:29:49 shachaf: this is my area of expertise you know 23:30:13 Oh for 23:30:17 s/Robin/Rowan 23:30:20 / 23:30:30 Rowan 23:30:32 Williams 23:30:37 I want \n to be my middle name. 23:30:39 rowan atkinson williams 23:30:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rowan_Williams_-001.jpg 23:31:06 Looks like a successful programming language designer. 23:31:39 He is the designer of the language... of God. 23:31:44 > let there = light# 23:31:44 not an expression: `let there = light#' 23:31:46 > let there = light 23:31:47 not an expression: `let there = light' 23:31:51 I want «' OR 0 = 0 OR 'foo' = '» to be my middle name. 23:31:57 Blaspheme. 23:32:40 Wait, why did nobody tell me the Archbishop of Canterbury looked that awesome? 23:32:57 Sorry, i thought i did. 23:33:10 Phantom_Hoover: quick is he a raging homophobe or anything I want to like him. 23:33:32 He's in charge of the CoE, so I doubt he has any terribly strong opinions on anything. 23:33:40 elliott: He is a raging homophone for Robin Williams. 23:34:11 (COME ON THAT DESERVED A GROAN) 23:34:49 Phantom_Hoover: It looks like the nastiest thing he's said is [[Though acknowledging that he was simplifying the Church's position, Williams said in September 2010 "There's no problem about a gay person who's a bishop. It's about the fact that there are traditionally, historically, standards that the clergy are expected to observe." Asked what was wrong with a homosexual bishop having a partner, he said: "I think because the scriptural and tradit 23:34:49 ional approach to this doesn't give much ground for being positive about it."[55]]] 23:34:53 OK I will take a compromise position. 23:35:01 I support Rowan Williams for Pope. 23:35:13 I mean, he'd be a better Pope than whoever's Pope now, right? 23:35:25 elliott: COME ON, ONE LITTLE GROAN 23:35:28 shachaf: Grn. 23:35:40 Not having been in the Hitler Youth is often considered a political advantage, yes. 23:36:01 Phantom_Hoover: Oh man, I forgot the Pope was! 23:36:08 * ion groans shachaf. 23:36:22 Phantom_Hoover: Can we hang him or something? 23:36:43 Stop looking at me like that, you gotta kill religious leaders once in a while. :( 23:36:48 elliott: Apparently Rowan Williams is Primate of All England. 23:36:54 CHECKMATE CREATIONISTS 23:37:06 Phantom_Hoover: hey the hitler youth _was_ mandatory 23:37:07 `addquote elliott: Apparently Rowan Williams is Primate of All England. CHECKMATE CREATIONISTS 23:37:18 834) elliott: Apparently Rowan Williams is Primate of All England. CHECKMATE CREATIONISTS 23:37:19 I was about to say what oerjan did, but he cut ahead of me. 23:37:29 Isn't there pretty strong evidence he totally enjoyed it? 23:37:35 Dunno. 23:37:35 I mean, I forgot, but then Phantom_Hoover jogged my memory. 23:37:52 WASN'T NORWAY NAZI FOR A WHILE MAYBE OERJAN WAS A HITLER YOUTH 23:38:09 elliott, I think it was kind of like evil Scouts, it was probably pretty fun? 23:38:09 Phantom_Hoover: there is a bit of problem with the timing there. 23:38:22 Phantom_Hoover: PH............ they were Nazis.................. 23:38:33 oerjan: Weren't you born in 1924? 23:38:43 I did say evil Scouts, didn't I? 23:38:51 shachaf: shockingly, no 23:39:00 1928? 23:39:05 nope. 23:39:07 @age oerjan 23:39:07 Maybe you meant: arr ask 23:39:09 oerjan, you're old, people who were alive in WWII are old, Q.E.D. 23:39:11 @arr oerjan 23:39:11 Yo ho ho, and a bottle of rum! 23:39:17 @arrjan 23:39:18 Unknown command, try @list 23:39:22 @arrjn 23:39:22 Swab the deck! 23:39:51 Hi, oerjan! My friend! 23:40:13 Friiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeend 23:40:29 frand 23:41:07 @botsnack 23:41:08 :) 23:42:44 lambdabot: i'd like you more if you stopped listening to that evil elliott guy 23:43:05 :''( 23:43:20 /ignore oerjan 23:43:27 I think you upset her. 23:43:31 > 2+2 23:43:32 4 23:44:06 needs some cheering up 23:44:10 ^celebrate 23:44:10 \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/ 23:44:10 | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | | 23:44:10 |\ /| |\ | |\ |\ /< | >\ /^\ /'\ 23:44:11 /´\ (_|¯´¯|_) 23:44:11 (_| |_) 23:44:11 (BEGRUDGINGLY) 23:44:19 (NEXT TIME I MIGHT ANSWER 5) 23:44:35 > 2 + 2 23:44:35 4 23:44:42 looks like someone is abusing his lambdabot privileges 23:45:03 lambdabot: How do you feel about olsner calling your feeling abusive? 23:45:07 :( 23:45:43 RocketJSquirrel: Why doesn't HackEgo ever show emotion? 23:49:58 Oh, hey, the UK doesn't actually *have* many conventional corporations. 23:51:10 It has companies. 23:53:51 oerjan: so, anyway, now I don't hate existentials as much as I used to! 23:54:41 they're only useless in haskell because it has implicit closures 23:55:16 okay 23:56:47 oerjan: I'M GLAD YOU'RE AS HAPPY AS I AM ABOUT THIS DISCOVER 23:56:48 Y