00:02:55 -!- augur has joined. 00:07:43 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:08:41 -!- augur has joined. 00:13:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:18:12 -!- augur has joined. 00:22:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:40:03 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:40:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:52:22 "Jason Voorhees is back not for killing purposes but here to kill problems." --Stack Overflow profile 00:52:28 Isn't that... killing purposes? 00:52:38 ...I'm just sayin' 00:54:06 Yes 00:54:11 Well observed 00:54:34 * elliott is back not for killing purposes but here to kill people. 01:09:24 Masha'allaah 01:12:26 hi 01:12:38 monqy: That didn't count as a hi, it was required. 01:12:44 i'm here to kick ass and answer questions about haskell and i'm all out of questions about haskell 01:12:46 I... Huh. 01:12:54 There might technically be 20 year old OS X binaries. 01:13:00 elliott: understandable 01:13:04 elliott: i would have done the same thing 01:13:07 NeXT. It ran on x86. 01:13:54 pikhq: i tried to run WorldWideWeb on OS X once 01:13:55 it didn't work 01:14:28 Does it build, at least? 01:14:58 i just used a preexisting binary :p 01:15:12 If so, then it is probably a matter of endianness; wouldn't be too surprised if WorldWideWeb was only built for m68k. 01:15:59 Actually, almost certainly only for m68k. 01:16:49 NeXT on x86 only came later. 01:17:02 this was when Rosetta worked 01:17:06 did NeXTStep ever run on PPC? 01:17:10 No. 01:17:29 m68k, x86, SPARC, and PA-RISC. 01:17:49 ppppppppowerpc 01:18:06 ppppick up a penguin 01:18:07 I think in theory you could create an m68k, x86, SPARC, PA-RISC, PPC fat binary. 01:18:30 (as Mach-O is from NeXT and yes, they did support fat binaries then) 01:20:03 you can have an x86 + x86-64 fat binary iirc 01:20:13 since the early intel macs were 32-bit, believe it or not 01:20:16 for like... a year 01:20:36 Ah, right. 01:20:42 Even more fattitude! 01:20:45 can you do a ppc-le / ppc-be fat binary 01:21:13 i tried to use Linux prctl(PR_SET_ENDIAN) on my toilet seat iBook but it didn't work :/ 01:22:14 You could, but I'm pretty sure only one half would be used. The Mac hardware wasn't bi-endian. 01:22:21 `addquote * elliott is back not for killing purposes but here to kill people. 01:22:24 only funny out of context 01:22:25 840) * elliott is back not for killing purposes but here to kill people. 01:22:32 `quote 01:22:33 `quote 01:22:35 `quote 01:22:35 738) The only way you could do better would be to implement Monopoly with chocolate. 01:22:36 `quote 01:22:39 `quote 01:22:47 763) oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world? fizzie: +47 oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there. I... guess you are geographically, too. 01:22:51 780) * Phantom_Hoover moves 0.5 Phantom_Hoover into the Atlantic, and captures fizzie's upper body with 0.5 Phantom_Hoover. Glurk. 01:22:53 592) dangit I need someone who knows the answers to my problems instantly and is always around for me! I need.....an adult ;_; 01:22:56 726) right: you didn't find out you were wrong, just right in a way we failed to consider. if only every wrong person could be so lucky 01:23:09 elliott: 592? 01:23:28 oops, back 01:23:33 also, 726 is awesome 01:23:51 haha, i was about to say that 592 amuses me, and 726 is probably the weakest 01:24:03 (to support multiple endiannesses on a PPC, you either need a motherboard that can do byte swaps on the bus *or* crazy hardware hacks) 01:24:26 hmm, I think all those quotes are good 01:24:31 s/hardware/software/ 01:24:31 OK, let's keep them all 01:24:35 `quote 01:24:38 435) oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life. 01:24:42 `quote 01:24:45 719) i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one" 01:24:56 719 sucks 01:25:04 `quote 01:25:06 313) BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN 01:25:11 pah 01:25:12 `quote 01:25:12 `quote 01:25:14 621) it's definitely not a statistical fluctuation, they repeated the experiment 15 thousand times to make sure 01:25:26 SO MUCH FOR THE PERFECT 5-PERSON ROLL 01:25:27 748) in one case, someone is hurting themselves, in the other, they are only hurting (all) norwegians (to death) 01:25:43 I don't think 621 is funny 01:25:47 719 amuses me 01:25:56 I don't get 719 01:26:03 I don't think 621 is massively funny either; it can be out of context, I guess 01:26:12 well, it was pretty much the height of "how simple can a concept be before monqy will not claim to not understand it" 01:26:17 `delquote 621 01:26:21 *poof* it's definitely not a statistical fluctuation, they repeated the experiment 15 thousand times to make sure 01:26:35 elliott: in that case 719 needs a lot more context 01:27:27 but I already know the context! :p 01:27:27 `quote 01:27:28 `quote 01:27:28 `quote 01:27:28 `quote 01:27:29 `quote 01:27:37 61) actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge 01:27:38 also, 313 is great 01:27:41 296) elliott, incidentally, I started my explorations again after getting bored of the Himalayas. 01:27:50 788) has there been any work towards designing programming languages specifically for stoned people 01:27:51 576) theorem prover yada yada halting problem. 01:27:52 76) <@Lawlabee> Why does Monday start at 10PM on Sunday? 01:27:59 `delquote 76 01:28:02 *poof* <@Lawlabee> Why does Monday start at 10PM on Sunday? 01:36:08 elliott: 313 is great because it's self-fulfilling 01:36:32 haha, indeed (but I think it's great even independent of that) 01:36:40 yes 01:36:53 -!- augur has joined. 01:37:30 `quote 313 01:37:33 313) Of course, "b" is clearly just "pv". Say "pvottle". It will sound... similar to exactly the same as "bottle". 01:37:58 monqy: it's 312 now 01:37:58 `quote 312 01:38:01 312) BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN 01:41:56 zzo38: Do you read the logs? 01:42:06 zzo38: Guess what arrived today!!!!!! 01:42:17 shachaf: I choose to misinterpret "read" in that line in the sense of divination 01:42:20 because it's much better that way 01:42:23 esotericomancy 01:42:30 ais523++ 01:42:40 That's a much better interpretation of "logreading". 01:43:09 I'm logreading right now, in fact 01:43:13 22:33:40: `hatesgep 01:43:15 I'm at about that part 01:43:20 of the log 01:43:52 I'm logreading too! 01:43:56 I'm around the 01:43:59 18:43 < monqy> I'm at about that part 01:43:59 18:43 < monqy> of the log 01:44:02 part of the log. 01:44:32 even if a woodchuck /could/ chuck wood, it would likely have no motivation to, and thus still would chuck no wood 01:44:57 ais523;beliveven in hte woodomchuk!! :'( 01:45:04 shachaf: you aren't monqy 01:45:15 Correct. 01:45:25 he just plays monqy in bad b-movies 01:45:29 the bad b-movie known as #esoteric 01:45:55 elliott: What does "British" mean? 01:46:00 As in a person. 01:46:25 "citizen of the UK"? "lives in Great Britain"? "lives in the British isles"? 01:46:34 `hatesgeo 01:47:06 No output. 01:47:16 "a blast from the past" 01:47:27 shachaf: Citizen of the UK, usually. 01:47:33 Perhaps "lives in the British Isles" if not that. 01:47:40 So people in Northern Ireland are British? 01:47:49 shachaf: Well, as I was about to say, it's a bit of a self-identity thing. 01:47:55 What about Southern Ireland?! 01:48:03 Probably many people in Northern Ireland would consider themselves British. 01:48:05 But certainly not all. 01:48:20 legally there are many categories, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_citizen 01:48:31 oh so hatesgeo is a mass pinging machine 01:48:43 kallisti what were you thinking 01:48:54 monqy: isn't that areally 01:48:55 really 01:48:56 old log 01:48:57 *a really 01:49:06 it's from november! I think 01:49:18 why are you 01:49:19 it's the one where I don't onderstand the "one" 01:49:19 reading that log 01:49:21 ah 01:49:23 I wanted context 01:49:26 I don't onderstand the "one" either 01:49:27 now I'm hooked 01:49:44 send help 01:50:02 no 01:50:33 kmc: Who said anything about the Commonwealth? 01:50:41 me 01:50:46 but also there is a list in that article 01:50:47 Correct. 01:50:52 of different flavors of British Citizen 01:50:58 I don't think people in Canada consider themselves particularly British. 01:51:17 shachaf: I think a good rule of thumb is just to not call anyone "British" unless they call themselves British. 01:51:28 Which probably means not calling anyone "British" because we never talk to foreigners. 01:51:37 self-identifying considered harmful 01:51:54 kmc: Right. 01:52:26 !monqy what does this thing do 01:52:40 \ /tmp/runghcXXXX19466.hs:1:52: \ Couldn't match expected type `[Char]' with actual type `IO String' \ In the second argument of `mapM_', namely `getContents' \ In the expression: mapM_ (putChar . toLower) getContents \ In an equation for `main': \ main = mapM_ (putChar . toLower) getContents 01:52:46 oh 01:53:01 kmc: Is this the game where you put before something silly and he disagrees with it? 01:53:04 Erm. 01:53:06 By "disagree", I mean "agree". 01:53:25 shachaf said something like that 01:53:34 Yes, I did. 01:53:35 i did not look it up in logs so i might have got minor wording wrong 01:53:41 hi monqy 01:53:49 You got the capitalization and punctuation different. 01:53:58 Not that I care about capitalization and punctuation. 01:54:06 as noted, you think capitalization is silly 01:54:17 kmc: Well, quoting shachaf is the same as putting before something silly. 01:55:09 I think the existence of capital letters is silly. 01:55:54 I think the existence of capital letters is silly. 01:55:58 do I win a prize 01:59:02 monqy: prize 01:59:12 thanks shachaf 01:59:24 this is a great prize 02:00:02 http://invisible-island.net/vttest/vttest.html is a fun program 02:00:15 did you know that vt220 and thus xterm support double-width double-height text? 02:00:44 did you know im a puddle 02:00:59 no 02:01:05 Do we get banned in here for fullwidth text? :-( 02:01:17 "I realized that xterm had features (other than the obvious case of function keys) that were not found in a VT100." doesn't this guy maintain xterm 02:01:46 maybe he/she realised that some time before he started maintained it 02:01:52 or maybe just wrote it by accident 02:04:03 ａｉｓ５２３：　Ａｒｅ　ｙｏｕ　ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｔｏ　ｂａｎ　ｍｅ　ｎｏｗ？　：−（ 02:04:20 That doesn't render here. :( 02:04:22 I should install takao. 02:04:25 I should get an AUR package manager. 02:04:29 I don't know of any good AUR package managers. 02:04:32 pikhq: So my book arrived. 02:04:37 How do I go about reading it now? 02:06:26 shachaf: First, look things up obsessively. Second, for the love of all that is sane, use an SRS (spaced repetition system) 02:06:46 Why the latter? 02:06:47 What book did shachaf buy? 02:07:06 shachaf: Makes it much easier to remember things. 02:07:09 elliott: _How to Keep Secrets from Elliott_ 02:07:38 pikhq: But I never like how those work. 02:08:08 * elliott wonders why he bothers asking shachaf questions. 02:08:16 elliott: Oh, you were asking me? 02:08:23 elliott: It's some sort of Manga thing in Japanese. 02:08:27 My sister recommended it. 02:08:42 is it good 02:08:49 It's Death Note. 02:08:55 monqy: I don't know. :-( 02:10:48 I wonder how much dust that RTK book has collected while I've been too busy with other things to go through it. 02:11:08 elliott: Should I get that book? 02:11:43 Remembering the Kanji? I think so. pikhq recommends it and I like the sample I read on the web. 02:11:53 Also it's what the spaced repetition systems have data sets for. 02:11:56 pikhq: Should I read that book? 02:11:59 shachaf: It's one of precisely two ways of going through kanji that aren't designed by obvious morons, so yes. 02:12:07 pikhq: What's the other way? 02:12:17 I think my version is a paperback. I should buy a hardback instead. 02:12:17 elliott: Also, do you remember the kana already? 02:12:20 It's way too big for a paperback. 02:12:25 It's either that or http://kanjidamage.com/ , which is free. 02:12:29 shachaf: I bought the book before actually doing anything. 02:12:42 "Welcome to KANJIDAMAGE, where you can learn 1,700 kanji using Yo Mama jokes." 02:12:47 pikhq: Are you sure this wasn't designed by an obvious moron? 02:12:51 Pick whichever one has the approach you don't hate. 02:12:55 I have one data point in favour of the idea that it was designed by an obvious moron. 02:13:15 "math stylezzz." Two data points. 02:13:33 http://kanjidamage.com/assets/visualaids/kick%20in%20the%20nuts-5fc801a01bdbdedd67b2a17dc6ff1767.jpg Three. 02:13:51 elliott: Everything other than RTK and that strongly suggest you learn kanji that are comically archaic. 02:14:03 pikhq: Apparently it costs hundreds of dollars or something. 02:14:18 shachaf: The recent edition should cost like 20. 02:14:38 shachaf: I bought it for something like 20 pounds. 02:14:40 "10 new from $178.54 23 used from $56.92" 02:14:49 That'll be someone selling the old edition. 02:14:56 http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kanji-Volume-Complete-Characters/dp/0824835921/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334628892&sr=8-1 02:14:56 shachaf: Is that the 1st edition? From, like, the 70s? 02:14:56 "4 new from $99.99 20 used from $21.50" 02:14:57 http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kanji-Volume-Complete-Characters/dp/0824835921/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334628892&sr=8-1 02:15:02 $24 new. 02:15:07 (Okay, plus 52 cents.) 02:15:12 First result for "remembering the kanji" on amazon.com. 02:15:13 Most things teaching kanji are roughly analogous to teaching English using Shakespeare and Chaucer. 02:15:30 (Why do people print paperback books?) 02:16:05 There's not even a hardback result for RTK. :( 02:16:13 So someone *not* having you learn motherfucking 匁 ("monme", a pre-Meiji unit of weight) gets quite a bit of points. 02:16:13 I guess I should learn the katakana first. 02:16:24 (Why do people print paperback books?) // Why do people print books? 02:16:32 whats a books 02:16:44 "A sixth edition was released in April 2011." 02:16:49 monqy: a books is something read by an elliotts 02:16:52 Oh, I have an *excuse* to buy a new edition. 02:16:53 monqy: are you elliotts 02:17:04 shachaf: IIRC pikhq told me that kana can wait until after kanji, but I don't raecll that for sure. 02:17:35 elliott: Wait, really? 02:17:39 shachaf: i forget if elliotts is my puppet or im elliotts' puppet 02:17:41 But they're so much simpler. 02:17:42 Learning kana before kanji makes it so you could kinda jump into Japanese before kanji, but trust me when I say you're going to be basically useless without kanji. 02:17:52 pikhq: it depends on what you're using Japanese for 02:18:01 pikhq: What if I just want to learn spoken Japanese? 02:18:06 several people learn it to play Japanese computer games, in which case kana are more useful 02:18:17 shachaf: Does that manga have speakers? 02:18:23 ais523: Unless they're playing NES games, not really. 02:18:24 japanese computer games? 02:18:58 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:18:59 pikhq: disagreed, especially on portables, whose screens can't really show kanji large enough to make them out 02:19:01 shachaf: Then you don't need kana either, if you want to be illiterate. 02:19:26 * elliott is illiterate. 02:19:34 ill iterate 02:19:45 "Remember mnemonics from school? "Every Good Boy Gets Fudge," or "My Dear Aunt Sally," or even that notorious pedophile, one Mr. "Roy G. Biv"?" 02:19:47 > iterate (fun "safe") x 02:19:48 [x,safe x,safe (safe x),safe (safe (safe x)),safe (safe (safe (safe x))),sa... 02:19:50 pikhq: I'm quite literate and don't know a single kana symbol. 02:19:51 -!- yorick has joined. 02:19:51 pikhq: I really think this site was written by a complete moron. 02:19:58 Not literate in Japanese, of course. 02:20:11 ais523: Even *Pokemon* uses kanji anymore. (admittedly, this is only the most recent games; before that it was katakana exclusively) 02:20:18 pikhq: not by default 02:20:24 pikhq: statement does not make sense 02:20:29 it has both kana and kanji in it and asks which you want 02:20:41 Thought it was an option on Black & White that they asked you about right away? 02:20:50 pikhq: "Even Pokemon uses kanji anymore" 02:21:00 coppro: s/anymore/nowadays/ 02:21:01 even I understood what pikhq meant anymore 02:21:07 pikhq: yes, ask immediately 02:21:20 coppro: Stuff targeted towards little children won't use kanji (much), generally. 02:21:39 monqy: are you tlieltlttle children 02:21:41 ah ok 02:21:48 shachaf: whost that 02:21:54 monqy: elliotts 02:22:15 pikhq: So should I order _Remembering the Kanji_? 02:22:17 ais523: So should I order _Remembering the Kanji_? 02:22:21 Whichever one of you it was. 02:22:22 Stop italicising with _. 02:22:28 shachaf: me is probably a bad person to ask 02:22:39 also, you should always italicise with literal tab, no matter what the context 02:22:43 actually, better make it eight spaces to make sure 02:22:48 elliott: I'm not italicizing. 02:22:51 shachaf: I'd suggest looking at the sample first: http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/publications/miscPublications/pdf/RK1/RK%201%20%286th%20edition%29%20sample.pdf 02:23:05 * elliott picks up that sample to see HOW MUCH BETTER the sixth edition is. 02:23:09 shachaf: Stop citing with _, then. 02:23:21 italics rule #1: who needs italics when youc an marquee 02:23:26 elliott: That's how titles work. 02:23:31 elliott: I think it's just changed for the recent jōyō kanji list change. 02:23:37 _Hi, I'm a Book_ 02:23:40 shachaf: underline with the underline thing 02:23:45 monqy++ 02:23:49 monqy: I'm not underlining! 02:23:55 Why would I underline or italicize a book title? 02:24:15 "Quotes look like this" 02:25:56 shachaf: are you going to remember the kanji 02:27:19 how can you remember the kanji befoery ou know them 02:27:20 monqy: whats a the kanjii 02:27:23 chec kmate japanese teachers 02:27:28 chec kmate james heisig 02:28:14 pikhq: That sample has so much word in it. :-( 02:28:28 how do i ealrna without redanagIii????? 02:28:51 One of these days I need to edit the joyo list to omit things that are literally useless. 02:29:15 shachaf: Most of that text is in the intro, I think. 02:29:23 (the joyo list is a list of kanji that are taught in Japanese public schools. This list is only loosely correlated with what's in actual use.) 02:29:35 田 02:29:37 good knaji 02:30:33 Yeah, that sucker's pretty frequent... Something like a quarter of all surnames feature it. :P 02:31:02 i cant see it 02:31:02 help 02:31:04 what does it look like 02:31:19 elliott: like a square with both orthogonals marked, except that the vertical sides continue slightly past the baseline 02:31:36 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/File:%E7%94%B0-jorder.gif 02:31:40 kmc: I like how the mosh site recommends a different AUR packager to the one it did a few days ago. 02:32:18 it recommends yaourt now 02:32:22 "This image is part of the Commons:Stroke Order Project(zh-de-ja), a project to create a complete set of images depicting the right stroke order" I like how this "project" has produced exactly 9 images since 2008. 02:32:23 i thought our instructions before were just wrong 02:32:34 Oh, wait, more: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Stroke_Order_Project 02:32:47 kmc: Well, both packer and yaourt are popular unofficial AUR packagers. 02:32:58 it would probably be best simply to link to the AUR page. 02:32:59 oh 02:33:11 i thought packer was just a typo for pacman, which was in turn wrong 02:33:29 heh 02:33:39 I think packer is more "hip" than yaourt. 02:33:45 well, we're all about hip !! 02:33:46 yaourt is sort of breaky, I think. 02:33:53 that's why we're using Twitter Bootstrap 02:34:04 finally those Hacker News startup geniuses have educated the poor academics on a little style 02:34:11 -!- kwertii has joined. 02:34:15 Oh, or is it pacaur that's popular now? 02:42:13 pikhq: Should I be caring about how to write kanji? 02:42:23 That's what RTK1 covers, I think. 02:42:30 (It has been: a while.) 02:42:34 shachaf: It's generally a good idea, and honestly not that hard. 02:42:58 And with RTK it will kinda come naturally. 02:43:10 RTK2 is skippable, right? 02:43:12 I forgets. 02:43:17 Utterly. 02:43:24 It goes over readings in a fairly sucky way. 02:43:36 pikhq: But I don't care about it at all. :-( 02:43:45 And I don't want to write. 02:43:57 Writing is a terrible thing. 02:44:07 shachaf: I thought the same and remember last time pikhq convinced me it would still be the easiest way to learn. 02:44:11 Not having to write characters by hand is the reason I invented computers. 02:44:15 So you should probably just copy my being-convinced. 02:44:16 It's also pretty trivial to be competent. 02:44:45 * elliott wonders why shachaf bought a book some year(s) before he would be able to read it. 02:45:09 elliott: Death Note is not impossibly difficult. 02:45:23 * shachaf wonders why elliott bought RTK and then let it dust up the gathers. 02:45:25 Hey, I parenthesised the (s)! 02:45:31 shachaf: I'm bad at scheduling. 02:45:52 That said, if you go through a traditional Japanese course, it'll be a good decade before you have a hope of reading it. 02:47:00 pikhq: Is RTK even available in hardback? 02:47:05 elliott: I don't think so. 02:47:20 Another reason I need to do my own book binding and typesetting. :P 02:48:22 I hate paperback. 02:48:41 Why do they print paperback? 02:49:18 pikhq: Are you in the Japan? 02:49:20 You should be. 02:50:09 pikhq: Are you in Indiana? 02:53:44 I am Colorado Springs. 02:53:53 In, even. 02:54:08 Is that in Colorado? 02:54:12