00:04:44 <shachaf> monqy: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Creation_of_the_Sun_and_Moon_face_detail.jpg
00:06:44 <monqy> shachaf: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Man_in_the_Moon_with_key.jpg
00:07:55 <monqy> shachaf: did you know: lesser known monqy trivia: at school: this reallye happened: someone nicknamed me "god" (why??)
00:08:13 <shachaf> monqy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FullMoon2010.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Llave_bronce.jpg
00:08:29 <shachaf> monqy: Wait, you go to elliott?
00:09:16 <monqy> shachaf: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Man_In_The_Moon2.png
00:09:21 <elliott> why doesn'tcrawl have monqy as a go
00:09:25 <elliott> if i patched that in would they accpt it
00:10:01 <monqy> i dont really know if theres "one true name" for them
00:10:08 <monqy> usually it's devs or dev team or devteam or something like that
00:11:13 <shachaf> it is written in the booke of monqy:
00:11:37 <elliott> crawl doesnt have book of x intros
00:11:48 <elliott> "They say the Orb of Zot exists deep, deep down but nobody ever got it."
00:12:03 <shachaf> im' talknig about nethack :'(
00:12:28 <elliott> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~markm/git?p=crawl-ref.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=46c3bdfbb600940b5de1c4a9e9750f247568facf
00:13:04 <shachaf> Crawl is written in C++??!?!!
00:13:09 <monqy> i've patched it it's a pain
00:13:18 <monqy> historical artefact i guess
00:13:23 <shachaf> monqy: WELEL IVEEE PATCHED NETJHAKC!!
00:13:29 <shachaf> And I wrote really bad code. :-(
00:13:46 <shachaf> I was younger and foolisher than elliott.
00:13:48 <monqy> one time i patched nethack too but it was just for playing around (with crawl the patches actually got put into the game true story)
00:13:59 <shachaf> My patch is running on NAO.
00:14:01 <elliott> shachaf: donte be silly that was the guy who invented json
00:14:09 <shachaf> elliott: No it was me. :-(
00:14:19 <elliott> ur just trying to take credit
00:14:25 <monqy> "who shoudl i belev"
00:15:00 <monqy> patch "by shachef not elliotts"
00:15:33 <monqy> if crawl code wasn't painful i probably would have made my very own fork
00:15:47 <monqy> but since it is "welp"
00:16:03 <shachaf> what if monqrawl and crawlqy merged
00:16:50 <monqy> but probably it would be qcrawl since the de-facto standard naming scheme for crawl variatns that dont exist is (letter)crawl and mcrawl is already taken
00:17:23 <monqy> incidentally i'm listed on the mcrawl devteam (the mcrawl devteam is just people who say silly things that should change about crawl)
00:17:32 <monqy> ((except for rwbarton who sometimes implements them))
00:17:41 <elliott> basically the same thing right
00:18:06 <elliott> monqy: whate about crawl lighte
00:18:07 <monqy> yet another javascript objectnotation
00:18:16 <monqy> crawl light exists
00:18:32 <monqy> it's imamture but it exists
00:18:53 <shachaf> elliott: HLep i jsut read haskell code like c++?:(
00:19:08 <elliott> monqy: https://gitorious.org/~rwbarton/crawl/mcrawl
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00:19:35 <monqy> i knew some codeing was implemtned but i forgot it had a repositeor
00:23:10 <itidus20> http://rwbarton.com/ "Welcome aboard. This site is dedicated to the thoughts and interests of rwbarton. " Powered by WebSite TONIGHT from godaddy.com
00:23:46 <monqy> is that the saim rwbarton or a diferent rwbarton
00:24:54 <monqy> oh no, domainsbyproxy
00:25:10 <itidus20> quotation from rwbarton.com "Therefore, as this Easter day draws to a close, how fitting that we contemplate atoning Jesusbending and curved in Gethsemane. His bleeding curvature transformed the grammar of death. Until Gethsemane and Calvary, death was a punctuating, rigid exclamation point! Then death, too, curvedinto a mere comma!"
00:25:39 <monqy> wasnt't sourcrereal also domainsbyproxy
00:26:21 <monqy> and theres another site that i realized sourcreal reminded me of but it's gone now :'( it was like sourcereal years ago for me when i was just a kiddo who didnt knew about sourcreal
00:27:09 <monqy> teaandcrumpets.co.uk "have you heard of it"
00:27:48 <monqy> it had a page where they time traveled and prevented the holocaust by way of hitler forming an um pa pa band
00:28:07 <elliott> http://web.archive.org/web/20091208063734/http://www.teaandcrumpets.co.uk/
00:28:27 <monqy> the images look a bit gone :(
00:28:28 <elliott> http://web.archive.org/web/20060616121723/http://www.teaandcrumpets.co.uk/ this one is lesss broke
00:28:31 <itidus20> monqy: that sounds like a fascinating universe, but, theres no guarantee that it's a better one
00:28:42 <monqy> thats old teaancrumpets from before i knew of it
00:30:31 <monqy> First off we took a trip to Germany during the early 1940’s and convinced Hitler that mutton chops and a top had were the right kind of fashion accessory for a evil dictator, of course we knew that they are the tools of comedy.
00:30:43 <monqy> oh no the picture of hitler in a top hat is gone
00:31:09 <itidus20> does Godwin's law apply in this situation?
00:31:32 <monqy> So that’s Hitler sorted out, you may be interested to know what happened to Hitler and the rest of the Second World War well Hitler formed the now world famous German um-pa band im hitler fühlen meine Freude.
00:31:36 <monqy> Previously to this he handed back all the Jews unharmed and gave control of the invaded countries to random world leaders that were pulled out of his prize bingo machine that he loved so much, this was the favored option over blindfolded darts with a map of the World as this was deemed unsafe and unfair.
00:31:50 <itidus20> Actually, it's a universe in which there is no Godwin's law.
00:32:09 <shachaf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mike_Godwin_at_Wikimedia_2010.jpg
00:32:39 <shachaf> Godwin is an actual lawyer.
00:37:46 <itidus20> he has also commented on the talk page of the article about him
00:41:46 <shachaf> monqy: this isnt usenete :'(
00:42:11 <shachaf> I once spammed Usenet. :-(
00:43:17 <shachaf> Something I was selling on eBay. :-(
00:43:27 <shachaf> I feel like a terrible person whenever I think about it.
00:43:31 <shachaf> I had no idea what I was doing.
00:44:08 <shachaf> monqy: "am i a teriblle pesrson"
00:44:38 <shachaf> You're just asking because you want to find the post. :-(
00:45:38 <shachaf> (You'll be able to find it based on the information I've given you, I think.)
00:46:53 <shachaf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkalong_glider
00:47:03 <shachaf> I had spent a long time looking for those and couldn't find them anywhere online.
00:47:09 <shachaf> Then I found several for sale in a local store.
00:47:21 <shachaf> So I bought an extra one and thought I'd put it online for people like me to find.
00:47:55 <itidus20> Ok ok I admit it.. when I said, Monqy V: The Scrolls of Oreze, the way I arrived at Oreze was capitalizeFirstLetter(reverse("zero") + "e")
00:49:47 <elliott> monqy: capitalising the first letter of monqy is sin right
00:50:11 <monqy> depending on what you mean by sin
00:50:32 <itidus20> haha.. you will never resolve that definition in time to act upon it
00:51:15 <shachaf> > let monqy = 5 in sin monqy
00:53:33 <ion> Is fmap sin a sinner?
00:54:38 <monqy> i hate trigonometry
00:55:30 <shachaf> Here in AMERICA, we'd pronounce the 'r' at the end.
00:57:36 <shachaf> pikhq: How do I learn Japanlanguage. :-(
01:09:46 <itidus20> i dunno what they say its like Namco Bandai Games To
01:10:23 <itidus20> i know" to" can mean "and" .. ahh who knows
01:17:43 <itidus20> but when the games have names like kingdom hearts 3d: dream drop distance, and extend every extra .. i'm not worried
01:18:33 <elliott> do you realise you never make any fucking sense
01:19:05 <monqy> don't worry itidus20 i like it that way
01:19:28 <monqy> (i still have yet to resolve that definition have i run out of time to act upon it)
01:20:19 <itidus20> ok i'll try to clarify.. trigonometry -> trigger no metry -> . o O (metry no trigger -> metori no torigga(not an actual transliteration) )
01:21:34 <itidus20> doki doki is an onomatopeia representing a heart beating in a panic which is occasionally used in video game titles
01:21:47 <itidus20> monogatari means something like story and also shows up in video game titles
01:21:53 <pikhq> toriganametori for realz
01:22:37 <pikhq> Dictionary says "yes".
01:23:09 <itidus20> "namco bandai games" is something a hyper-enthused japanese man says in the introduction to dragon ball kai (an abridged series of dragon ball z) episodes
01:24:11 <itidus20> and finally, there is a game named Extend Every Extra, and as google told me another one named Extend Every Extra Extreme. And another game named Kingdom Hearts 3D subtitled Dream Drop Distance
01:25:12 <itidus20> But obviously my explanation does nothing to make it look like I don't have a thought disorder.
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01:37:59 <Sgeo> That reminds me of a weird game
01:38:31 <Sgeo> It's literally only because of "namco" which sounded familiar
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02:18:01 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy update
02:18:13 <elliott> can he be decisive about anything yet
02:19:11 <HackEgo> 841) <Sgeo> hack and back? <Patashu> works on anything much slower than you <monqy> at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" <Patashu> am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink <monqy> i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes
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03:38:57 <lambdabot> Local time for monqy is Wed Apr 25 20:38:51 2012
03:41:59 <lambdabot> Local time for shachaf is Wed Apr 25 20:41:55 2012
03:46:47 <Sgeo> Google is giving me trouble
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04:15:32 <itidus20> it's funny to me.. I have absolutely no conception of where this place fits into the world at large. I am naive and innocent.
04:19:04 <itidus20> well you guys seem to be signifigant in the realm of HWN
04:19:39 <elliott> no we just hang out in #haskell
04:22:43 <itidus20> *contemplates* i think noone i have ever met face to face in real life (except the the time i was at school -- none of my classmates for some of that time though) would have the foggiest clue what a haskell was.
04:22:43 <shachaf> Whoa, man, I've been "ed in HWN.
04:22:44 <shachaf> (That says "double-quoted", by the way.)
04:22:44 <shachaf> itidus: It's actually a quoting ring.
04:22:44 <shachaf> I @remembered one of those quotes of elliott's; elliott @remembered one of mine.
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04:23:35 <itidus20> oh.. hmm.. this one guy my dad was friends with might
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04:23:38 <Sgeo> I met someone who is a major Haskell fan
04:23:44 <Sgeo> And I told my gf about Haskell
04:23:50 <shachaf> 21:19 < elliott> no we just hang out in #haskell
04:23:52 <shachaf> 21:21 < shachaf> Whoa, man, I've been "ed in HWN.
04:23:55 <shachaf> 21:22 < shachaf> (That says "double-quoted", by the way.)
04:23:57 <shachaf> 21:22 < shachaf> itidus: It's actually a quoting ring.
04:24:00 <shachaf> 21:22 < shachaf> I @remembered one of those quotes of elliott's; elliott @remembered one of mine.
04:24:18 <itidus20> i think i could safely convince most people a haskell was a form of cough syrup
04:25:20 <shachaf> Oh, my text came through before.
04:26:11 <shachaf> Or my Internet connection is just really really slow.
04:26:21 <shachaf> 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=1 ttl=54 time=797 ms
04:26:38 <itidus20> "* shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)"
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04:26:48 <shachaf> I'm getting *dozens* of kB/s.
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04:40:57 <elliott> `addquote <monqy> 200 and 20 are the same <monqy> different notations for the same thing
04:41:00 <HackEgo> 846) <monqy> 200 and 20 are the same <monqy> different notations for the same thing
04:41:37 <HackEgo> Spot_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
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04:56:32 <Sgeo> `welcome HackEgo
04:56:35 <HackEgo> HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
04:57:00 <Sgeo> `welcome A man with a space for a face
04:57:05 <HackEgo> A: man: with: a: space: for: a: face: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
04:57:17 <Sgeo> Well, that's interesting
04:57:43 <elliott> its for welcoming multiple people
04:58:47 <Sgeo> I am now bizarrely proud of "A man with a space for a face"
04:58:59 <Sgeo> Doesn't help that I was just reading Lyttle Lytton stuff
05:02:14 <elliott> a man with a space for a face
05:09:28 <Sgeo> http://adamcadre.ac/12lyttle.html
05:09:32 <Sgeo> tswett's on there
05:20:59 <Sgeo> Why is my DNS sucking?
05:23:58 <shachaf> How do Britishizens pronounce "argh"?
05:27:15 <shachaf> What if they see it written down?
05:30:12 <pikhq_> shachaf: They go off for tea instead.
05:30:49 <shachaf> I BET ELLIOTT DRINKS GREEN TEA
05:32:29 <itidus20> i think it might be a silent "gh"
05:36:08 <itidus20> disregard my comments as per usual
05:36:37 <itidus20> Argh! is an esoteric programming language in the spirit of Befunge, Brainfuck, and friends
05:45:46 <Sgeo> Are you a trope/
06:14:55 <shachaf> kmc: I hear there's a much more stylish and professional competitor to mosh. It's called the Portable Shell.
06:15:34 <shachaf> That makes me think of a wumpus, not a trombone.
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06:35:37 <pikhq_> There was an anime called "Superbook". It was Bible. Produced by Tatsunoko Productions in conjunction with Christian Broadcasting Network for the purpose of, well, evangelism.
06:35:46 <pikhq_> It was the first anime broadcast in the US.
06:35:58 <pikhq_> *Pat Robertson* is responsible for that.
06:37:18 <Sgeo> Is it bad in a good way, by any chance?
06:37:32 <Sgeo> Sounds like it could be fun
06:38:07 <Sgeo> Do they get to experience the story with the two she-bears?
06:38:35 <Sgeo> TV Tropes claims that it was good.
06:38:37 <Sgeo> That sounds boring.
06:39:33 <Sgeo> It's surely possible to enjoy fiction that promotes a PoV that I don't agree with
06:40:18 <pikhq_> I anticipate Heinlein would have at least half the fandom otherwise.
06:41:58 <Sgeo> I guess liking Libera doesn't really prove anything, does it >.>
06:42:14 <Sgeo> That's just music, and I don't understand most of the lyrics
06:42:47 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsmA4imWeqA
06:46:02 <shachaf> kmc: I found a worse offender for sparking useless IRC discussions full of hand-waving and pet broken explanations than "what is monad?".
06:47:34 <pikhq_> shachaf: "What is functional programming?"
06:47:58 <shachaf> I think that question ought to win an award or something.
06:48:06 <shachaf> It's like the busy-beaver function of IRC arguments.
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06:48:52 <ion> Why Every Proof that .999... = 1 is Wrong http://youtu.be/wsOXvQn3JuE
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06:52:54 <pikhq_> That is... Definitely the most painful Vi Hart video.
06:53:16 <pikhq_> The "humor" such as it is just falls really, really flat.
06:53:19 <Sgeo> Is she saying that it's not equal, or that common proofs don't work?
06:53:23 <Sgeo> I didn't watch yet?
06:53:24 <ion> pikhq: Meh, i liked it.
06:53:31 <pikhq_> Sgeo: She's saying it's April 1st.
06:54:06 <ion> It’s April 0.999…?
06:55:41 <Sgeo> pikhq_, hit your head with this video, which I think is serious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myfZ8hmmApE
07:00:20 <monqy> not even going to bother
07:01:06 <pikhq_> Sgeo: All I get from that is that omnipotence is a damned confusing property for anything to have.
07:01:37 <pikhq_> And that whoever did this video is retarded.
07:01:39 <Sgeo> pikhq_, how does a "set of all powers" become a "universal set" in the mathematical sense that the video is using?
07:01:56 <pikhq_> Sgeo: It doesn't, this guy is retarded.
07:02:42 <pikhq_> Correction, maximally retarded.
07:03:26 <Sgeo> I never really payed attention to this person's math
07:03:38 <Sgeo> Just the attempted connection between "universal set" and "set of all powers"
07:04:25 <pikhq_> Honestly, this feels a lot like some of those fundies on Youtube willfully misunderstanding everything to desperately cling on to things.
07:05:14 <Sgeo> It doesn't matter what the issue is, there will be idiots who attempt to support their side, and fail miserably
07:05:51 <elliott> Although I can't follow the mathematics, I was also skeptical of that first assumption that God represents a "universal set". God is often said to be preexistent, which means that such a being would be beyond the existent world of time & space. That would make the presence or absence of God unknowable and undefinable by religious dogma. I consider attempts at proving or disproving the existence (or preexistence) of God, by use of t
07:05:51 <elliott> he scriptures, science or math, to be futile.
07:07:23 <Sgeo> The "there are idiots who will fail to support 1+1=2" thing also applies to comments on the video.
07:07:38 <Sgeo> *successfully support
07:07:58 <pikhq_> Not that you can meaningfully "prove" things scientifically, unless by "prove" you mean "estabilish that foo is most likely the case", anyways.
07:08:51 <pikhq_> Sgeo: And, yeah. Regardless of how right or wrong something is, there are idiots who will support it.
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07:58:21 <pikhq_> --- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
07:58:21 <pikhq_> 21 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 19999ms
08:08:26 <qfr> pikhq_ no, many things are unsupported
08:09:24 <pikhq_> qfr: Only because the set of things is unbound, but the set of idiots is definitely bound.
08:09:33 <pikhq_> And, of course, an individual idiot can only support finite things.
08:09:51 <pikhq_> If we had infinite idiots, this would not be the case.
08:13:13 <Sgeo> What's with the l?
08:17:46 <pikhq_> I dunno; the DNS redirects there though.
08:18:03 <pikhq_> Well, rather, the reverse DNS comes up as that.
08:18:31 <fizzie> They do quite a lot of it.
08:18:36 <fizzie> api.google.com is an alias for api.l.google.com.
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08:20:04 <fizzie> Both google.com and l.google.com have the same nameservers, though they do have somewhat different TTL values.
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09:02:43 <shubshub> I wanna Make my own version of brainfuck
09:02:44 <HackEgo> shubshub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
09:05:02 <elliott> c.f. http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Phantom_Hoover
09:05:12 <elliott> you make one by deciding on uhh meanings for new commands or
09:05:16 <elliott> change the existing instructions to be different
09:05:52 <elliott> not sure what you're having difficulty understanding
09:06:03 <elliott> explaining what the new brainfuck-like language does
09:06:08 <shubshub> How do I change the commands what do I use Please Help im New to this
09:06:28 <elliott> you don't use any tool, you just describe it in english... if you want to change an interpreter to do your language then that's different
09:06:31 <elliott> you'll have to modify its code
09:06:42 <elliott> but the wiki accepts unimplemented languages so that's by no means a requirement
09:06:45 <elliott> uhhh from any brainfuck implementation
09:06:51 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations here's a whole bunch
09:07:37 <shubshub> is there Maybe an Interpreter written In Batch???
09:07:46 <elliott> i'm not sure batch is powerful enough
09:07:57 <elliott> i don't know enough about batch to say for sure, I don't use Windowd
09:08:22 <shubshub> Basically to change what something is you do set something=blah
09:08:45 <shubshub> then you can do set something=%something:h=g% then it would become blag
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09:09:53 <shubshub> with something like that would it be possible or is it completely impossible?
09:10:42 <shubshub> Im Gonna Make a BrainFuck Interpreter and call it BatchFuck
09:10:50 <elliott> you'll need at least looping
09:11:09 <elliott> you'll need to be able to do that
09:11:43 <shubshub> Im pretty sure you can by doing ( / will mean a new line btw) :first / echo hi / goto first
09:14:55 <shubshub> does BrainFuck Have Networking Capabilities?
09:15:07 <Lumpio-> It does if you pipe its output into netcat
09:15:28 <Lumpio-> ...then again it's not a standard tool
09:15:37 <Lumpio-> Also why Do You Randomly capitalize Stuff?
09:15:42 <shubshub> well then since it doesnt then Batch will be totally possible
09:16:23 <elliott> batch can't necessarily do any computational task not involving networking...
09:16:46 <Lumpio-> https://github.com/masarakki/r-fxxk
09:17:14 <Lumpio-> https://github.com/masarakki/r-fxxk/blob/master/lib/r-fxxk.rb <- although it doesn't even seem to support reading input ¬u¬
09:17:23 <Lumpio-> Then again the only thing people use brainfuck for is writing hello world so who needs input
09:17:28 <elliott> and it says "BrainFuck" sigh
09:17:43 <shubshub> People have Made Games In brainfuck
09:18:04 <elliott> does german capitalise "in"
09:18:14 <elliott> shubshub: is your caps lock broken
09:18:17 <Lumpio-> shubshub: Why do you capitalize random words
09:18:31 <elliott> i have a nasty force of hobbit myself
09:18:32 <Lumpio-> Stop doing it, it looks pre
09:18:50 <elliott> loosen up a little and let hte magic of capitalisation into your life
09:20:47 <shubshub> lul wtf someone wrote a brainfuck intepreter in BrainFuck
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09:22:02 <fizzie> Hey, where's... oh, there it is.
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09:24:12 <shubshub> elliot what would be the easiest brainfuck interpreter to understand on that Link you gave me????
09:24:13 <Lumpio-> Why not write a brainfuck interpreter in brainfuck
09:24:28 <shubshub> BrainFucks to hard for me to understand so Im gonna make my own
09:24:32 <Lumpio-> That's the best way to prove it's turing complete.
09:24:41 <Lumpio-> Because if something can implement brainfuck, it's turing complete.
09:24:55 <Lumpio-> This argument is correct because billions of religious people use the same argument to justify their life.
09:25:04 <Lumpio-> And billions of people can't possibly be wrong.
09:25:57 <Lumpio-> I wrote brainfuck in pure functional style just to shove it at the face of people who claim functional programming languages can't solve everything an imperative language can
09:28:40 <fizzie> The easiest to understand is obviously:
09:28:42 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
09:28:44 <shubshub> can I write it in another language then convert it into Brainfuck?
09:29:17 <fizzie> Lines 294-306 + 351-372 of that are the clearest brainfuck interp.
09:29:47 <fizzie> That was the link, right there.
09:29:55 <fungot> shubshub: haha. " i heard it's good"
09:30:03 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
09:30:08 <fizzie> Also what a fortuitous response.
09:30:24 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
09:30:30 <shubshub> its freaking Impossible for me to read
09:30:49 <elliott> did you make sure to read the right lines
09:31:14 <shubshub> I honestly can not understand it
09:31:15 <fizzie> I do hope those were the right lines. It was a very quick glance.
09:31:36 <elliott> don'tworry i can't understand that one wiether
09:32:10 <shubshub> can i write It In BASIC then convert it Into brainfuck code?
09:32:51 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BFBASIC
09:32:53 <fizzie> ^bf ,[>,]<[.<]!skrow ti tub
09:33:00 <elliott> that's what the game is written in
09:33:43 <lambdabot> I have a Haskell interpreter (written in brainfuck)
09:33:47 -!- shubshub has changed nick to shubshub_has_bee.
09:33:49 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\...
09:33:52 -!- shubshub_has_bee has changed nick to shubshub.
09:34:25 <shubshub> wow I didnt even know my nickname was registered to me^_^
09:34:51 <elliott> fizzie: tell me about speech recognition
09:34:54 <elliott> the nitty gritty theory of it
09:34:57 <fungot> shubshub: assuming ( number? 2) t not work on them? please?
09:35:04 <fungot> shubshub: f! h;! " icfp has been full of exciting conversations on esoteric and brainfuck!
09:35:10 <fungot> shubshub: my intentions are not fnord, last checked fnord) ( i know of
09:35:26 <elliott> fizzie: lots of mathematics and symbols and the like preferably, i like it raw
09:39:17 <fizzie> Well, I mean, it's just \argmax_{words} P(words | sound), that's all there is to it.
09:41:38 <shubshub> MY BASIC CODE ISNT COMPILIONG!!!!!\
09:41:39 <fizzie> Well okay sometimes you Bayes it up and P(sound | words) P(words) instead.
09:42:11 <elliott> ok teach me about something that isnt
09:42:30 <shubshub> Here is My script: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=L9zEYWbV whats wrong with it???
09:42:47 <shubshub> Im Using http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Execute_Brain****/BASIC/QuickBasic btw
09:42:57 <shubshub> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Execute_Brain****/BASIC/QuickBasic
09:43:19 <Sgeo> What does MID$ do?
09:43:29 <Sgeo> I'm wondering how instruction knows to stop reading characters
09:43:45 <Sgeo> To stop at the end of lol or keep going for lolol, for example
09:44:32 <Sgeo> shubshub, did the original source you used just interpret normal Brainfuck? > < + - etc?
09:44:51 <Sgeo> Because in that case, it's quite likely that you'll need to do more than just replace those
09:45:04 <Sgeo> Because your interpreter will need to find the boundaries for each instruction now
09:45:13 <Sgeo> The original one just knew that one character is one instructions
09:45:21 <Sgeo> And I suspect that your modifications did not change that fact.
09:45:27 <elliott> bfbasic does not run arbitrary basic.
09:45:34 <elliott> it compiles a restricted dialect.
09:45:43 <Sgeo> ...this is bfbasic?
09:45:55 <shubshub> Im trying to make Basic code then convert it to BrainFuck
09:46:16 <Sgeo> Well, I don't know anything about Basic or BFBasic, just saying what I'm guessing based on what you've said
09:46:57 <Sgeo> Oh, well, what I said wouldn't be a compile error
09:47:20 <Sgeo> shubshub, you should try to get it to work on QuickBasic before attempting to port to BFBasic
09:47:23 <Sgeo> One step at a time, etc.
09:47:25 <fizzie> elliott: Well uh I guess it's pretty nifty that http://users.ics.tkk.fi/htkallas/stuffs.png I just wrote that for the homeworks of one of our courses.
09:47:40 <elliott> fizzie: That's nice. Can you say it in-channel?
09:48:06 <shubshub> sorry its Just Im a One of those stick with what I orignally had in mind people
09:48:25 <Sgeo> Q(theta, theta^old) = sum from t=2 to T sum i=1 to 6 sum k=1 to 6 ... I don't know what that letter is
09:48:32 <fizzie> elliott: Um, okay, it was just $Q(\TT, \TT^{\mathrm{old}}) = \sum_{t=2}^T \sum_{i=1}^6 \sum_{k=1}^6 \xi(z_{t-1,i},z_{t,k}) \ln a_{i,k} + \sum_{t=1}^T \sum_{k=1}^6 \sum_{d=1}^5 \gamma(z_{t,k}) \left[ -\frac{(x_{t,d}-\mu_{k,d})^2}{2\sigma_{k,d}^2} - \frac{1}{2} \ln 2\pi\sigma_{k,d}^2 \right]$.
09:48:44 <elliott> shubshub: What? It's simple.
09:48:52 <elliott> It's just a bunch of sums.
09:49:10 <fizzie> Sgeo: It's a lowercase xi.
09:49:28 <shubshub> Teach me How to write the interpreter In BFBASIC
09:49:38 <Sgeo> shubshub, first, figure it out with QuickBasic
09:49:44 <Sgeo> How are you trying to compile it?
09:50:19 <Sgeo> shubshub, well, the interpreter you found is not written in BFBASIC. It's written in a language that is different but looks similar.
09:53:13 <Sgeo> shubshub, so first, try to obtain QuickBasic. Try to see if you can get the original code to run. Once you've done that, try to modify it
09:53:31 <Sgeo> shubshub, alternatively: Try compiling the original code with BFBASIC. Observe it fail to compile.
09:54:10 <Sgeo> shubshub, and what did you try?
09:54:20 <Sgeo> Sorry, suggested too many things at once
09:54:50 <shubshub> I used the original basic code and it failed to compile
09:55:39 <Sgeo> shubshub, ok. So the code you found will not work in BFBASIC. If you still want to stick to that code, it should run on QuickBasic.
09:57:34 <shubshub> Id Like something that I can compile Into BrainFuck code so it makes me look so pro
09:58:14 <elliott> i can assure you there is little risk of that
09:58:41 <elliott> sorry i was talking to fizzie
10:04:21 <shubshub> SOMeone tell me how to download the C2BF compiler pleASE?
10:04:42 <shubshub> https://c2bf.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brainfuck/c2bf/trunk/ i dont know which files I Need
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10:06:15 <elliott> you need svn to download it
10:06:20 <elliott> http://subversion.tigris.org/
10:06:29 <elliott> http://subversion.apache.org/
10:07:02 <elliott> you will also need a c compiler and a unix build environment
10:08:53 <shubshub> Quick what does this say In Brain fuck?: +++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++>+++>++++>+++++<<<<-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++>>---.>+.+++++++..+++.<<<+++++++.>>+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.<<<+.
10:09:16 <elliott> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++>+++>++++>+++++<<<<-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++>>---.>+.+++++++..+++.<<<+++++++.>>+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.<<<+.
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10:09:35 <shubshub> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++>+++>++++>+++++<<<<-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++>>---.>+.+++++++..+++.<<<+++++++.>>+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.<<<+.
10:10:17 <shubshub> +++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++>+++>++++>+++++<<<<-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++>>---.---.+++++++..+++.<<+++++++.>>----------.++++++++++++++.----.+++++.---------------.+++++++++++++.---------.------.<<.>>.+++++.-------.+++++++++++++..---------.+++++++.<<.>>+++++++.-----------.+++++++++++++.<++++++++++++++++.>--.<++++++.>++.<------.<.>>++.-----.---.+++++.<+++.<.>>.<+++.+.>-.
10:10:30 <shubshub> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++[>++>+++>++++>+++++<<<<-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++>>---.---.+++++++..+++.<<+++++++.>>----------.++++++++++++++.----.+++++.---------------.+++++++++++++.---------.------.<<.>>.+++++.-------.+++++++++++++..---------.+++++++.<<.>>+++++++.-----------.+++++++++++++.<++++++++++++++++.>--.<++++++.>++.<------.<.>>++.-----.---.+++++.<+++.<.>>.<+++.+.>-.
10:10:30 <fungot> HELLO ESOTERIC CHANNEL SHUBSHUB WROTE THIS
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10:10:53 <HackEgo> mvta: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
10:10:53 -!- mvta has left.
10:10:59 <elliott> !bf_txtgen HELLO ESOTERIC CHANNEL SHUBSHUB WROTE THIS
10:11:04 <EgoBot> 254 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++>+++++>++<<<<-]>++.>>-.<<++++..+++.>>>++++.<<-.<++++.----.+++++.>.<--.>++++.>--.>.<.<-.>--.<++++++..>++++.<--.>>.<<+++++++.>+++.<++.>------.<<+.>>++++++.<.>------.>.<<++.<-.---.>---.>+++.>.<<.>+++.+.<-.>>----------------------. [507]
10:11:17 <shubshub> !bf_txtgen WTF ITS THAT EASY WHY DIDNT YOU TELL ME
10:11:20 <EgoBot> 260 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>++>+++++>+++++<<<<-]>+++.---.>>.<++++.>>+++.<<<.-.>.<+.>>>-.<-----.<<.>.<---------------.>>.++++++++++++++++++.++++++.<.>--.>.<++.<.<-.>>>+.<<<.>>>+++++.<-----.<.>+++++.>+.<----.<.>-.<<+.+++++++..>.>>--.--------.<<----------------------. [841]
10:16:40 <shubshub> '""""'""""'""""""'""'"""'""'""'""'""'""'""'""'""'""'"""'""""'""""""'"""'""""""""""'"""""'""""""""'""
10:16:40 <shubshub> """"""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'"""
10:16:40 <shubshub> """""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""
10:16:40 <shubshub> """"'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'""""""""'"""""""'"""'""
10:16:40 <shubshub> ""'""""""'"""""""'""'"""'"""""""'"""'""""'""""""'""'"""'""'"""""""'""'"""'""""""'"""'""""""""""'""""
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10:17:19 <shubshub> didnt plan that well it was spose to translate it
10:17:28 <shubshub> I did ^UnReadable then pasted 98 lines
10:19:36 <Sgeo> shubshub, EgoBot does not know every esolang
10:22:53 <fizzie> And fungot (whose prefix ^ is) even less so.
10:22:54 <fungot> fizzie: i'll do some more list stuff, then the user will insert a sentence stating this fact in a way.
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10:38:16 <shubshub> bai be back tommorow for more great fun
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10:46:08 <fizzie> /topic the channel of great fun | logs
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14:14:55 <listrophy> just added a new lang to the wiki: ellipsis
14:17:22 <nortti> isn't that basicaly unary
14:20:45 <Gregor> I was expecting elliott to say that.
14:24:11 <Gregor> Feel free to add it to the pile: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Brainfuck_derivatives
14:24:43 <Gregor> Then, take a deep breath, and write an esolang that isn't a BF derivative ;)
14:24:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Then dig a nice little hole and bury yourself in it (am I being too much of an asshole I can never tell);
14:25:51 <listrophy> to be fair, i did write it not knowing the wiki existed
14:26:19 <Gregor> In spite of PH being kind of a dick, we're just trying to expand your horizons! 8-D
14:26:21 <listrophy> thought compiling to bf was novel. obviously i'm quite mistaken. =)
14:27:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Only kind of a dick???? listrophy, your mother never loved you because you made a brainfuck derivative
14:27:46 <Gregor> OK, in spite of PH being an enormous, erect, throbbing equine phallus.
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14:28:15 <Gregor> We're also super-mature in this channel/community.
14:28:30 <listrophy> Gregor: nah. ph is ok. i like the cut of her jib
14:29:11 <nortti> I have to confess that I have made a brainfuck derivative. It was called functional bf and I don't remember that much of it except it used lambdas
14:29:17 <Phantom_Hoover> why did you go from talking about me to talking about some boat suddenly
14:29:23 <ais523> elliott: three mdashes in a row in the topic? seriously?
14:29:42 <Gregor> Apparently one of my languages was reclassified as a BF derivative :(
14:29:46 <Gregor> (Which is fair since it's a BF derivative)
14:30:50 <boily> Writing esoteric languages isn't normal, but on Brainfuck derivatives, it is. BF derivatives: never once.
14:30:55 -!- Gregor has set topic: You guys Pinkie Pie just wants everypony to smiiiile ——————————————————————————Gregor | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
14:33:03 <Gregor> DISAPPOINTED BY LACK OF HATRED HERE.
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15:35:49 <nortti> https://p.twimg.com/ArXcPfoCIAE1r0G.jpg:large
15:38:28 <Ngevd> Phantom_Hoover, how's your brick?
15:39:02 <Ngevd> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Ellipsis
15:39:49 <Ngevd> Phantom_Hoover's brick may be interested
15:40:22 <nortti> we talked avbout it before you joined
15:40:35 <Ngevd> So, Phantom_Hoover's brick is in use?
15:41:22 <Ngevd> But then we'll only have at least 0 IOCCC winners!
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15:43:05 <nortti> Gregor: how does your jit in your IOCCC entry work?
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15:46:02 <ais523> Ngevd: Ellipsis seems to be an uninteresting Unary derivative
15:46:10 <ais523> so it's a BF derivative derivative, more than anything else
15:46:51 <Ngevd> Ooh, I made one of those many years ago
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15:50:24 <ais523> listrophy: is it your language? sorry, we just get a huge number of BF-alikes in here and it starts to get repetitive after a while
15:53:05 <ais523> have you seen Unary before? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Unary
15:53:10 <ais523> if not, congratulations on rediscovering it
15:53:21 <oklopol> there should be a wiki for noobs where bf derivatives are ok, and another one for us true esolangers, which would be nice and empty except for some archaic jewels.
15:53:28 <listrophy> ais523: so, i wrote it to make fun of semicolon, ignorant of esolangs.org
15:53:40 <ais523> listrophy: that seems reasonable enough
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15:54:31 <listrophy> ais523: and happily enough discovered that since the unicode char for ellipsis is 3 bytes, you can write a compiler to handle both unicode and '...'
15:54:51 <ais523> just by checking the length of the file?
15:55:40 <oklopol> i should make a habit out of turning all my undecidability proofs into esolangs
15:56:24 <oklopol> has anyone languagized PCP?
15:56:52 <oklopol> PCP's a big thing here in turku
15:56:53 <Ngevd> I managed to make a brainfuck derivative before I knew what brainfuck was
15:58:34 <fizzie> Obligatory nitpicking: the "Unicode character" doesn't really have a size in bytes; various different encodings of it have various different sizes; the UTF-8 form is three bytes.
15:59:15 <listrophy> fizzie: and thanks for the correction
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16:15:06 <Gregor> <nortti> Gregor: how does your jit in your IOCCC entry work?
16:15:08 <Gregor> Quite well, thank you.
16:15:46 <nortti> Gregos: does it compile with c2bf ;D
16:17:31 <Gregor> Well, you can't JIT in BF regardless, so no.
16:18:54 <nortti> I can't see how it works with multilple architectures
16:19:03 <Gregor> Quite well, thank you.
16:20:34 <Gregor> I could actually explain it, but I'd rather you bang your head against it a bit more first 8-D
16:21:39 <Ngevd> I'm not entirely sure how either C or JITs work in general
16:21:50 <Ngevd> So it may take me a few years
16:22:03 <Ngevd> And I may soon lack both a head and a wall
16:28:20 <Gregor> nortti'll figure it out I'm sure.
16:29:04 <ais523> `addquote <Ngevd> And I may soon lack both a head and a wall
16:29:08 <HackEgo> 847) <Ngevd> And I may soon lack both a head and a wall
16:30:35 <Gregor> nortti: Here's a hint that's not a useful hint: It is known not to work on SPARC and PA-RISC, although the reason it doesn't work on the latter is uninteresting (stack grows up)
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16:34:32 <ais523> "You have to download a total of 3,167 M. This download should take about 1 second with your connection."
16:34:39 <ais523> I don't think my connection is /that/ good!
16:34:50 <Gregor> That's some fast webertubes
16:35:24 <oklopol> i routinely get 7M a second
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16:37:13 <ais523> I'm upgrading Ubuntu to 12.04
16:38:06 <nortti> ais523: why are you using ubuntu?
16:38:08 <ais523> now it's estimating the download time required as about 1 and a half hours, which seems a lot more plausible
16:38:23 <ais523> nortti: it's what came on my last laptop originally, and I've been too lazy to switch distro
16:38:40 <nortti> ais523: pre-installed linux?
16:38:40 <oklopol> what kind of third world country do you live in
16:39:00 <ais523> although it /still/ came with a Windows key on the keyboard
16:39:25 <fizzie> I speedtest.net'd the workstation at work just for giggles; it said something like 860Mbps down. That's still not quite as good as all that, especially since I suppose that 3,167 M was in bytes.
16:39:40 <nortti> ais523: is that done with something other than netbooks and braindead "my first operating system" distros
16:40:04 <ais523> nortti: it was Dell, back when they were trying to frighten Microsoft into giving them lower prices for Windows
16:40:16 <ais523> they actually went through with their threat to sell preinstalled Linux for a while to show they were serious, I got it then
16:40:24 <nortti> ais523: and they still include windows key?
16:40:38 <ais523> as far as I can tell, they just took a standard Windows laptop and swapped out the OS
16:40:58 <ais523> it even came with Windows documentation :)
16:41:42 <nortti> ais523: remembers me about this computer when my friend bought it as used. He didn't want windows xp preinstalled so they just taped windows license to the bottom so they could charge as much money as usually
16:42:25 <ais523> this computer, the Windows license was on the outside of the box, which actually really impressed me
16:48:08 <nortti> Gregor: my brain is hurting
16:48:32 <Gregor> You must work THROUGH the pain 8-D
16:49:30 <ais523> oh, it went back to 1 second
16:49:39 <ais523> was getting a download rate of 3050 PB/s for a bit
16:49:42 <ais523> or claiming to, at least
16:49:49 <ais523> but then it changed its mind again
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17:50:49 <Gregor> Unicode has a codepoint "INVISIBLE TIMES"
17:50:55 <Gregor> That ... that is amazing.
17:51:40 <ion> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2%E2%81%A23 “Wolfram|Alpha doesn't know how to interpret your input.” :-(
17:54:03 <ais523> hmm, I wonder why this distro upgrade wants to remove lzma
17:54:17 <ais523> removing ghdl I can understand, it's probably unmaintained (I still need it, but I guess I'll install from source)
17:54:56 <ion> Perhaps it’s being replaced with xz.
17:56:28 <ion> (It can handle lzma files, too.)
17:58:20 <pikhq_> ais523: lzma is deprecated.
17:58:32 <ais523> pikhq_: what's the replacement?
17:59:00 <pikhq_> Same compression algorithm, has support for .lzma files for backwards compatibility.
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18:19:42 <ion> Glorious Master Translator http://dontevenreply.com/view.php?post=110
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18:36:11 <nortti> thinking about it --c-=c-c-- with (at least two cell) arrays and pointers would be turing complete even without dynamic memory allocation
18:37:06 <nortti> if only memory was stack
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18:47:49 <ais523> dpkg: libc6-i686: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
18:47:57 <ais523> let's hope this works out :)
18:48:21 <ais523> OK, new libc's in place
18:48:34 <ais523> that would be a bad moment for a crash :)
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18:49:13 <nortti> ais523: is your new libc also glibc?
18:49:38 <ais523> it's called "libc-bin", I'd be surprised if it wasn't based on glibc
18:49:43 <ais523> (although it may well be eglibc)
18:50:37 <nortti> I am thinking about moving my own distro to uClibc
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19:05:07 <nortti> ais523: or maybe I switch to libc4! BWAHAHAHA
19:08:00 <itidus20> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=wolfram
19:15:49 <ais523> hmm, that was vaguely worrying, a dialog box opened with an error icon and a bunch of unreadable text
19:15:59 <ais523> and then disappeared again
19:16:07 <ais523> a fraction of a second later
19:16:37 <pikhq_> Smaller than uclibc, full-featured, fast: what's not to like?
19:20:08 <kmc> doesn't work with mosh :/
19:20:40 <kmc> i don't remember, but other people were looking into it
19:20:54 <kmc> or, did look into it
19:21:09 <pikhq_> I'm going to bet it's relying on glibc's behavior of defining a couple feature test macros if you don't define any.
19:21:18 <pikhq_> (which is, of course, non-compliant)
19:22:18 <pikhq_> Defines _BSD_SOURCE and _SVID_SOURCE, which suffices to get some non-POSIX code working.
19:22:52 <pikhq_> Of course, modern code should define _POSIX_C_SOURCE 200809L or _GNU_SOURCE.
19:23:38 <nortti> pikhq_: well musl looks awesome. I wil take a look at it later
19:24:21 <pikhq_> Hmm. Then again... mosh is in C++, isn't it?
19:24:54 <pikhq_> In which case you're probably running into some edge case with musl and libstdc++ interacting, which is probably a musl bug.
19:32:18 <nortti> pikhq_: is it possible to use musl with linux 2.4 or uClinux
19:32:51 <pikhq_> Linux 2.4, maybe. uClinux, probably not without some porting.
19:33:19 <pikhq_> Though, using it with Linux 2.4 will *certainly* not work with threads; Linux 2.4 threading was Broken.
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19:35:45 <pikhq_> LinuxThreads did not comply with POSIX behavior at all, produced some rather odd behavior with scheduling, and claimed SIGUSR1 and SIGUSR2 for its own purposes.
19:36:00 <pikhq_> Oh, also, each thread had its own process ID.
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19:37:20 <ais523> pikhq_: each thread /still/ has its own process ID; but getpid doesn't return it, it returns a different number
19:37:36 <ais523> ooh, the terminal is /almost/ working, just an error message on load
19:37:55 <pikhq_> Anyways, LinuxThreads sucked, and NPTL is only supported on 2.6+.
19:37:57 <ais523> oh, but return isn't; doesn't matter, I can still use control-J
19:37:58 <elliott> ais523: I played Crawl some more and dislike it even less now
19:38:13 <pikhq_> (or crazy-ass backports that will probably break if you look at them wrong)
19:38:16 <elliott> mostly because I stopped being a kobold
19:38:22 <ais523> what combo are you using now?
19:38:41 <elliott> it solved my two most annoying problems
19:38:44 <ais523> hmm, I don't think that's a very good combo
19:38:47 <ais523> what were the problems?
19:38:49 <elliott> (a) killing anything took ages
19:39:14 <ais523> you'll run into problems later rather than earlier with that build, I think
19:39:15 <elliott> ais523: it doesn't seem like a bad combo but "what do i know"
19:39:21 <elliott> i coerced monqy into picking it for me, so
19:39:30 <elliott> and ds is white (not grey) when i pick ak
19:39:30 <ais523> due to having no way to kill midgame uniques
19:39:35 <elliott> so it's not disrecommended
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19:39:39 <ais523> and yes, DS is not that bad for AK
19:40:04 <ais523> which god are you going with?
19:40:18 <ais523> wasn't thinking for a moment
19:41:21 <elliott> 20:41 <elliott> !hs elliott
19:41:21 <elliott> 20:41 <Sequell> 77. elliott the Impaler (L15 DsAK), worshipper of Lugonu, blasted by Aizul (poison arrow) on D:17 on 2012-04-26, with 84580 points after 43254 turns and 3:34:58.
19:41:41 <elliott> that was a really stupid death and entirely my fault; I quaffed a potion of curing with like 14 HP while Aizul was right next to me
19:41:53 <elliott> I should have either read a ?tele a few turns ago or cast enter the abyss
19:42:42 <elliott> ais523: I'm not sure why you think DsAK isn't a very good combo (though I ask out of curiosity rather than doubting)
19:43:07 <ais523> it has no special burst attack
19:43:36 <ais523> with, say, Be you can berserk in an emergency; with casters you can reserve your MP for emergencies
19:43:39 <elliott> ais523: well, it has banish :)
19:43:49 <ais523> things start resisting that after a while
19:43:58 <elliott> they already did by my point in the game
19:44:03 <elliott> ais523: oh, and DsAK can go spellcastery
19:44:07 <elliott> I just went for heavy armour instead
19:44:53 <elliott> ais523: anyway, I think it's better (for me) to have no emergency rush kinda thing
19:44:57 <elliott> because I just use it whenever there's the slightest bit of trouble
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19:45:21 <elliott> I'd much rather have a powerful normal attack, and an emergency escape mechanism
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19:46:19 <elliott> anyway, they should just eliminate the earlygame and I'd probably like Crawl more than I dislike it
19:46:26 <elliott> earlygame, food, and identification
19:47:13 <ais523> elliott: oh, you currently more dislike it than like it?
19:47:26 <elliott> yes, but not enough to stop me playing it
19:47:30 <elliott> I dislike NetHack more than I like it, too
19:47:39 <elliott> I haven't played a roguelike I like more than I dislike yet
19:48:08 <ais523> I play Crawl now and again, but I nearly always die either to a typo (often boredom-induced), or to something I couldn't have known without spoilers
19:48:34 <elliott> I use Henzell on pretty much everything that looks like it could be even vaguely scary
19:48:46 <elliott> and yeah, I usually die due to doing something stupid in the earlygame because it's tedious
19:48:54 <ais523> the other thing I don't like about the game is the excessive amount of randomness, which makes it hard to figure out anyone's stats
19:48:56 <elliott> but I find it quite fun and less luck-based after that
19:50:00 <ais523> none of the tabs were capable of scrolling
19:50:04 <ais523> nor could I open new pages in it
19:50:06 <ais523> so it was kind-of useless
19:52:47 <elliott> ais523: that's Firefox's normal mode of operation
19:53:16 <elliott> TODO: reply to prgmr, reply to THE ALAN DIPERT, [redacted]
19:53:37 <elliott> hmm, I wonder whether I should reply or reply to all
19:55:58 <ais523> elliott: reply to all three in the same email
19:56:15 <elliott> err, I meant whether to use reply or reply to all on this prgmr email
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19:56:23 <ais523> elliott: who was CCed in?
19:56:27 <elliott> the email I got is from the support person, cc'd to luke (the owner/sysadmin)
19:56:37 <nortti> pikhq_: can musl be used with pcc or clang
19:56:45 <ais523> compromise, and CC some random person you've never heard of
19:58:11 <ais523> how do I create a new tab in Gnome 3 Epiphany?
19:58:30 <ais523> oh, control-t works, but I was hoping for some way to do it with the mouse
19:58:40 <ais523> perhaps it's just not used to running inside gnome 2
19:58:48 <ais523> and you're meant to use something in the wider interface
19:58:50 <kmc> install xmonad lolololololololololololololololololololo
19:58:51 <ais523> elliott: there isn't a file menu
19:58:57 <ais523> there's exactly one menu, called "web"
19:59:10 <ais523> and it has a "new window" item, but not "new tab"
20:00:13 <elliott> GNOME shouldn't have tabs, anyway
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20:00:40 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:00:51 <lambdabot> shachaf said 7d 1h 35m 8s ago: how predictable !
20:01:00 <pikhq_> Actually, no, wait, pretty sure I've built it in pcc.
20:01:39 <ais523> ooh, Evolution hasn't horribly disintegrated yet, I think
20:02:31 <Taneb> The process, movie, or music festival?
20:02:40 <nortti> pikhq_: I am thinking about clearing my distro of gnu software
20:02:48 <ais523> Taneb: the email (+ related stuff) client
20:03:00 <ais523> nortti: so it'd be notGNU/Linux?
20:03:00 <pikhq_> nortti: Unfortunately, it is going to be Hell to free Linux of GNU stuff.
20:03:13 <pikhq_> At a minimum you need GCC, binutils, and GNU Make.
20:03:25 <elliott> Gregor is way ahead of you
20:03:29 <pikhq_> (and patching so it can use non-GNU sed)
20:03:31 <elliott> pikhq_: only a few files in Linux have FSF copyright
20:03:33 <ais523> pikhq_: gcc is probably replaceable by clang, either now or later
20:03:43 <pikhq_> elliott: *Building* the kernel. :)
20:03:45 <elliott> you don't need gcc, clang can build a working kernel, if you patch it, sort of
20:03:57 <ais523> the other two may be harder to replace
20:03:59 <pikhq_> GNU Make is probably the worst part to replace.
20:04:04 <ais523> I guess you could just rewrite the kernel to use aimake ;)
20:04:11 <elliott> it's meant to be a drop-in replacement for gnu make
20:04:24 <elliott> (with a bunch of extra features that you don't care about)
20:04:32 <nortti> ais52€: I can build linux 2.4 tcc
20:04:39 <ais523> nortti: that's a weird typo
20:04:56 <ais523> is € altgr-4 for you, or some other combination?
20:05:13 <nortti> i have € on same key as e on android
20:05:23 <Taneb> So that's how you get
20:06:56 <kmc> compose e =
20:07:11 <elliott> does anyone have a combining hyphen
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20:09:23 <nortti> elliott: I am not trying to compete with Gregor. I just want to create bit different distro from my own which is pretty boring standard linux 2.4+gnu binutils+busybox+gcc
20:09:54 <elliott> 14:26:19: <Gregor> In spite of PH being kind of a dick, we're just trying to expand your horizons! 8-D
20:10:04 <elliott> Gregor: "Consider how much better life could be thinking with a brick!"
20:10:26 <Taneb> PH may be a dick, but...
20:10:37 <Taneb> I forgot the second part to that sentence
20:10:55 <olsner> maybe you meant "PH may be a dickbutt"?
20:11:16 <elliott> 14:27:46: <Gregor> OK, in spite of PH being an enormous, erect, throbbing equine phallus.
20:11:19 <elliott> I think Gregor has something to tell us.
20:11:32 <elliott> 14:28:30: <listrophy> Gregor: nah. ph is ok. i like the cut of her jib
20:11:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Wait, you're a /lesbian/ vampire?
20:12:48 <elliott> 14:29:23: <ais523> elliott: three mdashes in a row in the topic? seriously?
20:13:41 <HackEgo> 339) <elliott> oerjan: why so potable ...... <oerjan> DRINK ME
20:13:52 <olsner> "We noticed you have not accepted our invitation to join Stack Overflow Careers."
20:13:58 <ais523> you can do another four if you're in the mood for deleting
20:14:04 <elliott> olsner: you can accept it and then not create a profile
20:14:04 <olsner> they really want me on their site!! I'm so honored
20:14:15 <HackEgo> 825) <Taneb> hang on I have bright idea <Taneb> navajo to f me 1 in 3 people
20:14:18 <HackEgo> 841) <Sgeo> hack and back? <Patashu> works on anything much slower than you <monqy> at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" <Patashu> am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink <monqy> i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes
20:14:28 <HackEgo> 838) <elliott> It's... not really links2-optimised. <nortti> elliott: I don't think that any page is links2 optimised
20:14:29 <HackEgo> 799) <shachaf> Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up.
20:14:46 <HackEgo> *poof* <elliott> oerjan: why so potable ...... <oerjan> DRINK ME
20:14:53 <ais523> wrt 799, I gave up new year's resolutions years ago
20:14:56 <ais523> and have kept that ever since
20:15:12 <ais523> (I don't resolve to make resolutions to fix bad habits, I just sort-of avoid them for a while and the problem fixes itself)
20:16:22 <HackEgo> 38) <ehird> `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny <HackEgo> How hard is that
20:16:46 <ais523> that doesn't look too much like hungarian…
20:16:56 <ais523> although "gy" is a valid hungarian letter
20:17:10 <ais523> (and that's not a representation or anything, "gy" is actually how it's written in Hungarian too)
20:18:11 <nortti> ? Did the number of "38) <elliott> It's... not really links2-optimised. <nortti> elliott: I don't think that any page is links2 optimised" change?
20:18:25 <ion> business as usual http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/25/210198.html
20:18:39 <nortti> it shows as 38 on my phone
20:19:27 <HackEgo> 838) <elliott_> (help why are german) <monqy> i play the german version of crawl <elliott_> i
20:19:31 <olsner> hmm, "Finland" was not an accepted location to finish the registration, but "Sweden" was fine
20:19:41 <olsner> and I accidentally a profile, oh well
20:19:49 <elliott> It changed number slightly.
20:19:50 <nortti> or androirc just suck like usual
20:19:56 <HackEgo> 837) <elliott> It's... not really links2-optimised. <nortti> elliott: I don't think that any page is links2 optimised
20:19:57 <elliott> Because I deleted a quote.
20:20:34 <elliott> Gregor: HackEgo's Unicode shit breaks AndroIRC.
20:20:37 <elliott> Can you just get rid of it?
20:20:44 <elliott> nortti: What does that show as?
20:22:18 <nortti> also the new 838 shows as 838
20:23:17 <HackEgo> 122) <AnMaster> alise, marble <AnMaster> marbelus
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20:26:24 * nortti does and doesn't at the same time
20:26:45 <elliott> You are partially covered in large bone plates (AC +2, SH +2).
20:27:45 <ais523> elliott: DS mutations are always positive, or mostly positive, IIRC
20:28:02 <elliott> yeah, but the best i've got is like AC +2, EV -1
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20:33:42 <elliott> hmm, this might be the first time i die to sigmund
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20:49:43 <elliott> hmm, there's a new MediaWiki release out
20:49:47 <elliott> but I'll hold off until 1.19
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21:17:02 <ais523> zzo38: six exclamation marks?
21:19:06 <nortti> zzo38: have I sent you my shell script gopher client you wanted to see?
21:19:35 <zzo38> nortti: Yes I have seen it.
21:19:50 <zzo38> ais523: Do you think five and a half would be better?
21:20:23 <ais523> zzo38: yes, the half an exclamation mark would be an interesting thing to talk about
21:21:46 <nortti> zzo38: comparing our gopher clients it is pretty clear that I like ed and I assume you like vi
21:25:23 <zzo38> nortti: Yes I do like vi
21:26:01 <nortti> zzo38: what do you think of emacs?
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21:26:42 <zzo38> nortti: I think it contains too much bloated but if these are the features which you like then use it; I prefer vi
21:27:55 <nortti> my current ed binary is 6,16kB
21:30:41 <nortti> I dislike all the bloat in vi
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21:32:53 <zzo38> Have you seen bashgopher and Visgopher?
21:34:11 <nortti> I have seen bashgopher which is a very good gopher client but I haven't seeb visgopher
21:35:20 <zzo38> Visgopher is designed only for Windows; I don't know if it will run on Wine, though. But, bashgopher is designed for UNIX. I did make the setup program for Visgopher now, since some people were having problems to install it.
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22:25:51 <zzo38> A few weeks ago I had some dream, I was illithid and in some generic hotel without any name or anything like that (for some reason, in my mind it is Victoria), and had some key I was trying to get rid of. But whenever I was getting rid of it, someone else caught it. And then I received a notice to go to somewhere; following instructions led to a building that I have been to before (as myself, human, but still in the dream!) with many stores and bakery etc, but
22:26:06 <zzo38> And today, I am going to Victoria, as it turns out. Unexpectedly.
22:26:20 <zzo38> (I will go on Victoria Day too; but unexpectedly there is something today too)
22:26:23 <ais523> hmm, so I'm now using Ubuntu 12.04, currently with Unity
22:26:29 <ais523> and… it's actually pretty usable
22:26:51 <ais523> it reminds me of some Windows 7 or OS X-like interface, just rotated 90 degrees
22:28:00 <ais523> could someone nickping me? I want to test something
22:28:33 <zzo38> I have used the newest Ubuntu at FreeGeek. Commands are still the same but menus and graphic interface are changed, the guest account name is not simply "guest" anymore, etc
22:28:40 <zzo38> ais523: How to do that?
22:29:01 <ais523> zzo38: how to do what?
22:29:08 <zzo38> ais523: How to nickping you
22:29:31 <ais523> zzo38: oh, say a line with my nick in
22:30:12 <zzo38> Is it possible to tell one of the bots to do that?
22:30:30 <ais523> the problem is bots would respond too quickly
22:30:33 <ais523> I wanted a bit of a delay
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22:33:09 <elliott> Rule #1 of civility: Always respect fluid. Accept your neighbour who may wish you to be carbon ; consider their desire and enact.
22:34:24 <ais523> elliott: you may be horrified to hear that I'm actually just fine with Unity
22:34:35 <elliott> did they make it less horrible
22:34:46 <ais523> this version is said to be significantly less horrible than the last one
22:34:49 <ais523> yes, and I just upgraded
22:34:50 <elliott> too bad im "done with ubuntue"
22:35:02 <ais523> hmm, now I'm going to reboot, to see how long it takes to boot
22:35:16 <ais523> it booted very slowly this time but the first boot on a new version always is slow
22:35:27 -!- ais523 has quit.
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22:39:26 <ais523> about 40 seconds to login prompt, maybe 10 to 15 more to log in
22:39:35 <ais523> about the same as before, although far from good
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22:45:43 <ais523> figuring out what to do to configure it is often a little complex
22:45:58 <elliott> OS X is still OS X, if anyone was wondering
22:46:02 <ais523> e.g. it requires holding down the left mouse button for several seconds on an icon to reorder them in the task bar
22:46:07 <ais523> elliott: Unity is halfway to OS X too
22:46:18 <ais523> slightly further than Windows 7
22:46:39 <elliott> OS X sort of works only because of the maniacal single-mindedness about it
22:46:45 <elliott> which is why imitations of it are usually really painful
22:47:15 <ais523> Unity seems to have a maniacal single-mindedness about something else, that happens to be quite close to OS X in execution
22:47:38 <ais523> e.g. the window management buttons being in the top left make total sense in Unity even though they don't in Gnome
22:48:21 <ais523> now, let's go reinstall Flash, in preparation for the day we don't need it
22:49:43 <ais523> hmm, fun reviews, there's a debate in the comments about whether it works on various versions of Ubuntu, and whether it's capable of showing the color red
22:50:15 <ais523> and apparently it was installed by default anyway because the fact that I'd accepted the license had been recorded
22:50:22 <ais523> (I uninstalled it for the update because the updator didn't like it)
23:01:49 <TeruFSX> can somebody explain to me why nan!=nan generally
23:02:41 <ais523> TeruFSX: because NaN represents the result of a calculation that produces no result, or an arbitrary result
23:02:53 <TeruFSX> i was trying to explain that to somebody, they did not get it
23:02:58 <ais523> given that 0/0 can reasonably be /any/ number, you can't expect it to return the same value every time
23:03:40 <TeruFSX> why does NULL==NULL then, if nan!=nan?
23:04:06 <TeruFSX> my reasoning is that NULL is a single quantity, just an empty one
23:04:14 <ais523> because NULL isn't a number, but a pointer, and represents something in particular (the absence of a value)
23:04:28 <ais523> note that many languages have their null-equivalent not equal to itself, incidentally
23:04:37 <elliott> how come NaN!=NaN but 42==42
23:04:55 <ais523> there's only one possible value of 42
23:05:13 <ais523> meanwhile, conclusions of Flash tests: Flash works in Firefox and in Konqueror but not in Epiphany
23:05:22 <ais523> and Konqueror confuses Unity
23:05:35 <ais523> I guess Chromium for YouTube would make a lot of sense…
23:05:57 <elliott> http://i.imgur.com/8RESf.png "Runs an embedded hypervisor OS, much like the Xbox 360, to squeeze performance out of inferior hardware"
23:06:10 <elliott> wow, reddit, it really *is* easy to solve every problem when you have no idea what words mean
23:06:28 <ais523> OK, is there seriously no way to customize the fonts?
23:06:56 <ais523> hey, and I didn't know this touchpad did multitouch
23:07:33 <ais523> but tapping it with two fingers at once right-clicks, that's pretty much the biggest multitouch giveaway ever
23:08:47 <ais523> seems the multitouchiness isn't being used for anything else, though
23:08:47 <elliott> my touchpad must not be multitouch, then
23:08:58 <ais523> elliott: either that or the drivers don't support it
23:09:01 <elliott> depends how you define "tap" :)
23:09:35 <ais523> elliott: same action as is used to click, just with two fingers at once not one
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23:09:57 <elliott> fair enough, then it is trur
23:09:59 <ais523> wow, this is demonstrating to me just how much I used to tap one end of the touchpad, then the other with another finger, to move the cursor quickly
23:10:04 <elliott> but I would call that a click or a press, not a tap
23:10:11 <ais523> such an operation doesn't work on a multitouch touchpad, but does on a single-touch one
23:10:15 <elliott> the touchpad can support recognising taps as clicks, but it's disabled
23:10:29 <ais523> elliott: a press is longer; a click is a software operation not a hardware one
23:10:37 <elliott> not about length, it's about force
23:10:50 <ais523> oh, I'm using tap-as-click, so it is about length for me
23:10:51 <elliott> i have to depress the touchpad to cause a click; just tapping it won't do anything
23:11:06 <elliott> it's one of those fancy huge-glass-button touchpads
23:11:38 <ais523> meanwhile, is it crazy that I dislike the bar being at the left rather than the bottom only because it's a greater maximum distance to move the mouse?
23:12:01 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: they haven't done much for a while, have they?
23:12:18 <ais523> elliott: 3DS is their most recent new console, and it isn't that recent
23:12:28 <elliott> wow, the Wii has lasted 6 years
23:12:33 <elliott> that's insane for console hardware
23:12:37 <Phantom_Hoover> I don't know of anything, but I don't follow them as much as I used to.
23:12:59 <Phantom_Hoover> haven't consoles been effectively technologically stagnant for that long
23:13:17 <Phantom_Hoover> seeing as the 360 and ps3 haven't undergone any major changes since
23:13:26 * ais523 turns touchpad speed and acceleration up
23:13:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: well, the 360 came out in 2005
23:13:50 <elliott> the Wii ... hasn't changed at all
23:14:20 <elliott> ais523: you might be able to disable the multitouch driver if you don't like it
23:14:22 <elliott> or is this a new computer?
23:16:27 <elliott> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
23:16:33 <elliott> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB
23:17:48 <ais523> elliott: same computer
23:17:57 <ais523> and I don't really dislike it, just have to retrain my muscle memory
23:18:15 <ais523> it doesn't normally take long, just a few days with a new computer and I can typically find all the keys I actually use in the dark
23:20:02 <ais523> the Ubuntu people have done a good job integrating programs with the OS, it seems
23:20:25 <ais523> if someone nickpings me, then the email-and-IM icon lights up, and the menu below it says who nickpinged me
23:23:01 <elliott> they had that before they left gnome 2
23:24:59 <pikhq_> elliott: PS2 is on 13 years and counting.
23:25:10 <elliott> PS2 has not really "survived" :P
23:25:19 <elliott> It just hasn't realised it's dead yet.
23:26:20 <pikhq_> Okay, if we count from time-to-successor, then the 2600 is the ultimate.
23:26:52 <ais523> bleh, so many bugs to deal with, though
23:27:03 <pikhq_> Or, actually. Gameboy.
23:27:28 <pikhq_> 12 years from the Gameboy release to the GBA release.
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23:30:32 <ais523> obviously to be expected in a beta (the release hasn't hit my mirrors yet)
23:31:05 <elliott> ais523: you /still/ use Konversation?
23:34:50 <ion> Is this dog?
23:36:12 <elliott> ais523: hey, I've written 90% of an email, if I send it as-is do you think they'll notice?
23:36:32 <ais523> depends on what the other 10% is
23:36:43 <ais523> meanwhile, I think I need a better newsreader than XPN
23:36:48 <ais523> it is also reasonably buggy, and more so in this version
23:42:06 <elliott> ais523: can you write a good roguelike for me?
23:42:25 <ais523> elliott: Animist is still in its very early planning stages, and you might not like it anyway
23:42:31 <shachaf> elliott: What does it mean when I really don't like the spelling "ax"?
23:42:40 <elliott> shachaf: it means you're correct
23:42:49 <shachaf> Maybe I should stick to it anyway because my spellchecker (which is set to AMERICAN) doesn't like "axe".
23:42:51 <elliott> ais523: does it have a hunger mechanism
23:43:14 <ais523> elliott: not sure yet, but if it did, it would actually be relevant
23:43:34 <elliott> ais523: Does it have item identification?
23:43:35 <ais523> rather than crawl-like
23:43:43 <ais523> probably all items will be IDed upon encountering them
23:43:51 <ais523> as in, no unIDed items
23:44:00 <elliott> ais523: Does it have a discrete experience level system?
23:44:34 <elliott> YOU HAVE CHOSEN INCORRECTLY
23:44:46 <ais523> although it's discrete along seven different axes
23:45:03 <monqy> what's experience level system
23:45:14 <elliott> ais523: By "discrete", I don't necessarily mean "discrete".
23:45:22 <elliott> ais523: I mean "levelling up as distinct from stats raising gradually".
23:45:45 <ais523> you don't have a level that's distinct from your stats
23:45:46 <elliott> It's okay if you use integerrs.
23:45:53 <ais523> but it uses small integers for stats
23:46:43 <elliott> ais523: Tell me more about Animist!
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23:47:30 <ais523> elliott: it's got reasonably complex tactics (things like facing are part of the game), and strategy is meant to be important yet flexible, and the main mechanic is a sort of entropy mechanic where MP doesn't regenerate over time and you can't gain experience except by spending it
23:47:57 <elliott> ais523: Does it have a boring combat system?
23:48:05 <ais523> depends on what you consider to be boring
23:48:17 <ais523> the combat should ideally involve at least a bit of thought
23:49:30 <elliott> ais523: btw, are any angband variants worth playing?
23:49:46 <ais523> angband is a game for people who enjoy grinding
23:49:56 <ais523> it's very good at satisfying those people, but other people get bored quickly
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23:50:05 <ais523> thus, it fills an important niche in the market
23:50:43 <elliott> does that apply to all derivatives?
23:51:29 <ais523> yes, they all have the same basic idea
23:51:39 <ais523> some, like ToME, manage to make it even more down that path, somehow
23:52:52 <elliott> http://pastebin.com/XyaTFxGJ haha, what a great death ("Message History" onwards)
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23:59:57 <elliott> ais523: hey, what's the worst roguelike?