00:03:56 -!- wyldstallyns has joined. 00:27:54 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:30:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:17 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:33:36 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 00:34:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:42:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:42:40 Hello; do you want................. 01:19:52 In the Dungeons&Dragons game I will make it my character's job to write down everything about the haunted castle and so on, in a book to keep in the royal archives and in the library, so that next time anyone need to go in there, they can know what to expect 01:22:40 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:23:19 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:47:09 -!- itidus20 has joined. 01:50:13 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:52:39 messages? 01:52:39 itidus20: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 01:52:49 @messages 01:52:49 itidus21 said 15h 54m 6s ago: elliott still has a box of beasts to use on zot:5 02:18:20 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 02:28:23 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:21:37 -!- calamari has joined. 04:20:40 oh my god someone actually tried to play the death waltz 04:25:15 ? 04:40:05 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:46:23 `log waltz 04:46:56 No output. 04:46:59 `log waltz 04:47:16 2011-08-26.txt:23:47:46: [20:52] Johnson Plays Waltz Citing Beethoven's "Your From Round Pittsburg?" Use Escalating Overalls You Damn Jackasses... Just kidding!" 04:47:55 `log waltz 04:48:02 2010-07-11.txt:07:19:52: I missed the Death Waltz bit where the upper staff gets a note below the bottom staff on ledger lines :D 04:48:23 `log waltz 04:48:30 2012-05-03.txt:04:47:55: `log waltz 04:48:41 `pastelog waltz 04:48:48 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24809 04:48:58 Oh, right 04:49:14 monqy, there was an update at ??:10 04:49:29 Or so 04:57:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCgT94A7WgI 05:00:06 coppro, embedding disabled on request when I try to use youtuberepeat 05:00:13 And it crashes when I try to view it normally 05:00:18 So, FCUK 05:00:22 noted 05:00:26 * Sgeo opens Firfox 05:00:28 Firefox 05:00:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:01:03 Oh, I've seen this 05:03:27 coppro, did they skip bar 7 correctly? 05:03:38 hard ot tell 05:03:46 unsurprisingly, it's difficult to follow along to the music 05:04:18 although I think they forgot to repeat the first "bar" 9 times 05:06:21 I don't see that 05:06:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:13:47 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:42:44 -!- augur has joined. 05:47:42 kmc: Did you see monqy's self-portrait of me? 05:48:22 yes 05:48:28 i think you asked me that yesterday 05:48:33 is this the one with bonzi buddy? 05:49:36 elliott also drew a self-portrait of me with Bonzi Buddy. 05:49:41 But monqy drew a different one. 05:49:51 11:38 < elliott> 19:18 08:05:37: Patashu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/eliot.png 05:51:53 It's pretty great. 05:52:00 thonqy 05:52:38 nice 05:53:01 how do you make a self-portrait of someone else 05:53:11 wyldstallyns: Just like monqy did it. 06:07:47 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:15:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:18:40 they're very good 06:24:26 @tell elliott I just found out about http://www.zincland.com/7drl/kobold/ from TVTropes. Have you tried it? 06:24:27 Consider it noted. 06:25:14 has anyone not tried smart kobold? 06:25:28 hlep 06:25:34 "whats smart kobold" 06:25:36 monqy, I haven't heard of it until now 06:25:45 how did you live with yourself 06:25:49 bah, next ThinkPad X series will have a chiclet keyboard 06:25:53 http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/05/lenovo-thinkpad-with-ivy-bridge-leaked/ 06:26:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:26:55 chiclet? 06:27:37 CHICLET KEYBOARD? MORE LIKE CHIC KEYBOARD, KORRECT? 06:27:48 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclet_keyboard 06:28:04 -!- variable has joined. 06:29:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:31:33 monqy has been UPDATEd 06:33:02 Sgeo: it used to mean a particularly shitty kind of rubber membrane keypad seen on tv remotes etc 06:33:30 now it's used to refer to laptop keyboards where individual keys are separated by empty space 06:33:38 even though the key mechanism is (in general) much better than those shitty membranes 06:33:48 the thinkpad chiclet keyboard allegedly has the same mechanism as the classic thinkpad keyboard 06:34:09 I'm using a Dell chiclet keyboard. 06:35:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:36:03 ooh, I have made a discovery! 06:36:22 the wireless around here is really buggy (apparently it's a router issue), and normally won't connect at all, or only for short periods of time 06:36:33 but it's more likely to connect immediately after the computer is rebooted 06:36:57 and it seems that I can replicate that same high success chance by a rmmod/insmod on the wi-fi driver kernel module 06:37:05 this could seriously save me a lot of time if it works 06:37:21 ais523: I once considered making an alias for "sudo sh -c 'rmmod iwlwifi; modprobe iwlwifi'" 06:37:27 But it never leaves my command line history. 06:37:32 So I didn't get around to doing it. 06:38:05 yeah i have a script for that 06:38:19 on linux you should look into whether your card tries to support 802.11n 06:38:21 and if so, disable it 06:38:28 that improved reliability a lot on one machine i tried 06:39:15 My card keeps developing exciting new bugs. 06:39:43 Under Ubuntu it was relatively stable once I got everything set up. Here in Debian it seems to break in subtly different ways on every few-week upgrade. 06:39:49 This is the reverse of kmc's experience, I think. 06:40:22 haha 06:40:26 debian unstable? 06:40:36 i've never used ubuntu on my own machine for a long stretch of time 06:40:50 just in VMs and on other people's machines here and there 06:41:14 i think even debian unstable doesn't update the kernel that often? 06:41:14 Testing. 06:41:17 hm 06:41:27 you could pin the kernel to a specific version 06:41:34 It might have to do with the fact that I'm using a monstrosity of a system around the kernel. 06:44:12 http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/05/02/bosch-drowsiness-detection-system-to-make-alertness-tech-more-common/ 06:45:49 because the world demands people to drive while sleepy 06:46:00 shachaf: how so 06:46:29 I didn't feel like getting xmonad set up so I just tried to reproduce my lazy GNOME setup from before. 06:46:33 But GNOME 3. 06:46:47 So now I'm running xfce but with gnome-settings-daemon because I wanted something that gnome-settings-daemon did. 06:46:58 And also I'm running both NetworkManager and WICD at the same time, I think? 06:47:20 that sounds inadvisable 06:47:34 And I have a loop that runs "disable-capslock; xmodmap $REMAP_CAPSLOCK_THINGY" every two seconds, because xfce randomly interferes with GNOME's keyboard settings. 06:47:54 -_- 06:48:07 I should just set xmonad up. 06:48:13 i use wpa-supplicant, nothing higher level than that 06:48:25 I managed to get GNOME 2 to a perfectly usable state. I don't need much out of my WM. 06:48:31 Why did they have to go mess it up? 06:48:56 because GNOME 06:49:50 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:49:53 did you run into trouble setting up xmonad, or just haven't got around to it? 06:50:12 also what about plain xfce, no GNOME? 06:50:36 Just haven't gotten around to it. 06:50:42 I have a really old xmonad.hs somewhere. 06:50:52 yeah, upgrading those can be a pain 06:50:53 I'm fine with that but gnome-settings-daemon did a few things that xfce didn't, or something. 06:51:06 maybe there is another way to do those things 06:51:21 which doesn't involve getting goatfucked by GNOME 06:51:35 Probably. 06:51:41 But it sounded like so much effort at the time. 06:51:44 this is really kind of a worrying state of affairs 06:51:55 Things like "set up multiple keyboard layouts without messing with Xorg.conf". 06:52:05 if GNOME is the main UI that's usable by beginners, but is hated and disowned by skilled programmers 06:52:15 down that road lies PHP 06:52:56 but a fair number of the skilled programmers i know run at least some parts of GNOME 06:53:00 so maybe it's not so bad 06:53:24 I'm really at the "don't care" stage. 06:53:36 I don't want too much out of my WM. I mostly use full-screen windows anyway. 06:53:57 But GNOME 3 felt like an early beta or something -- so much was broken and the rest was uncustomizable. 06:55:41 kmc: When are you going to write kmcwm? 06:56:03 Well, that was fun. 06:56:33 Tech writing, had to write instructions on "any topic"... 06:56:41 So, I explained the basics of Magic. 06:58:12 hi Magic 06:58:16 How does Magic work? 06:58:56 9 pages for a basic primer on the subject, apparently. 06:59:07 And by "basic" I mean I even omitted a card type. 06:59:12 (fuck planeswalkers) 06:59:15 haha 07:00:32 Of course, that's 9 pages with fairly defaulty TeX formatting. Large margins, ToC, whole page taken up by a picture of a card... 07:00:36 Eh, whatever. 07:01:53 Also, computer modern because I'm lazy and the professor seems to like everything else I've turned in in it. :P 07:02:27 LaTeX is a great way to get some unearned credibility 07:02:46 Greater still when you're actually writing Pandoc. :P 07:02:52 kmc: Is it as good as a clear plastic bider? 07:03:02 probably the dirtiest trick I ever pulled was, if I had a long sequence of algebraic manipulations, I would put the dodgiest step across a page break 07:03:05 pikhq_: lol do you think the reader of this document will learn Magic as a result? 07:03:17 itidus20: Quite plausibly. 07:03:19 pikhq_: which input format? 07:03:23 dun dun dunnnnnn 07:03:26 kmc: Markdown. 07:03:32 yeah, that's nice 07:03:44 kmc: Dodgy as in "unsure about it" or "don't feel like writing it out"? 07:04:02 It's like writing TeX, but much much easier on me. 07:04:50 unsure 07:05:19 i liked using markdown for beamer slides 07:05:31 but i did run into some limitations (which could have been fixed by writing a pandoc module, probably) 07:05:45 also it takes pdflatex a long time to compile 100 slides! 07:05:57 if i do another presentation I will seriously consider breaking it up and stitching the resulting pdfs 07:06:03 You should've used that slidy thing! 07:06:06 with a makefile 07:06:18 shachaf: *shrug* I've had bad experiences with HTML slideshows in the past 07:06:29 Yeah... I've been running my whole thing through Tup. 07:06:35 what's Tup? 07:06:59 Build automation tool, vaguely like make with better algorithms behind it. 07:07:23 Probably the nicest feature is its monitor, which can automatically rebuild stuff when the source has changed. 07:07:28 Oh, I thought it was the thing that puts multiple Postscript pages on a single printed page. 07:07:36 cool 07:07:39 http://gittup.org/tup/\ 07:07:42 Erm. 07:07:43 Oh, right. 07:07:43 http://gittup.org/tup/ 07:07:45 That thing. 07:07:51 The latter is psnup. 07:07:59 Right. 07:08:04 I was thinking of "2-up". 07:08:24 Typically like using it as I dev for fairly quick feedback on things. 07:08:32 Seeing if something compiles is as easy as :w 07:09:01 I usually do that by hand with inotifywait 07:09:07 "hand" 07:09:36 Shame that TeX building is a royal pain to automate with it, though. 07:09:53 (as TeX spews files all over the place and sometimes needs to run multiple times...) 07:09:57 yeah 07:10:04 also there's little opportunity for partial recompilation 07:10:09 if you have just a flat document 07:10:26 Shame that TeX is what it is. 07:10:40 So good and so bad all at the same time. 07:11:12 Good enough that no one will ever replace it, or something. 07:11:15 yeah 07:11:36 Along one dimension, at least. 07:12:04 Its output is good enough that it'd be really hard to even come close. 07:12:26 I wonder if it's the most popular Pascal program around these days. 07:12:54 Probably. 07:12:59 I know it's the only one on my system. 07:13:54 how does tup know which files etc. your compiler read? 07:14:00 does it use something like ptrace 07:14:02 pikhq_: Did you know execl("/usr/bin/tex", NULL); // => Segmentation fault 07:14:06 kmc: I think it uses FUSE? 07:14:12 whaaa 07:14:21 https://github.com/gittup/fuse 07:14:31 On Linux, it creates a FUSE filesystem in a dot directory, and runs the command there. 07:14:42 On Windows, it does some hack similar to LD_PRELOAD. 07:15:00 If LD_PRELOAD and/or ptrace is acceptable why can't it do that for both? 07:15:18 FUSe seems like overkill. 07:15:28 strange 07:15:31 FUSE is quite a bit better than LD_PRELOAD for the purpose. I bet ptrace would work decently, though. 07:15:48 Though, does ptrace work on OS X? 07:15:50 there are various situations where LD_PRELOAD would fail 07:15:55 apparently ptrace sucks on OS X 07:16:00 but there are other Mach interfaces you can use 07:16:09 FUSE works on every remaining UNIX, though. 07:16:14 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:16:23 pikhq_: I guess it's more reasonable in Windows because LD_PRELOAD-hookable functions are the *only* portable way to access the filesystem. 07:16:38 Oh, sorry, every remaining UNIX *but OpenBSD*. 07:16:45 does Solaris have FUSE? 07:16:50 Yes. 07:16:54 (come on guys, even Hurd has FUSE!) 07:17:13 Hurd *is* FUSE, man 07:17:14 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:17:14 dude 07:17:17 How about actual Unix®? Does it work on Unix®? 07:17:22 i should get Mosh working on Hurd 07:17:29 Yeah, they implemented FUSE by making a wrapper library. 07:17:33 that would be a laff 07:17:51 it will be a supported platform for Debian wheezy! 07:17:53 So much time, so little to do! 07:17:59 shachaf: It doesn't get more actual than the BSDs. 07:18:11 pikhq_: It -- does, doesn't it? 07:18:28 does AIX have FUSE? 07:18:38 I mean AT&T Unix. 07:18:40 No, but can you call that "remaining"? 07:18:49 latest stable release October 2011 07:18:52 according to Wikipedia 07:18:56 shachaf: Nah. 07:18:58 Oh, I thought you meant "remaining after you rule out Linux". 07:19:07 kmc: Bah, humbug. 07:19:10 latest release of HP-UX was last month! 07:19:23 I meant "remaining" as in "not dead or effectively so". 07:19:48 just because your hippie friends can't afford a real UNIX doesn't mean they're dead 07:19:51 ;P 07:20:07 Strictly speaking, that was 2007. 07:20:17 HP is just contractually obligated to provide patches until 2013. 07:20:18 * shachaf runs SCO OpenUNIX. 07:20:28 there was a MINIX release in February 07:20:35 Ooh, MINIX 3. 07:20:36 That's real. 07:20:38 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:20:42 Oh, right, MINIX. Yeah, that doesn't have FUSE. 07:20:43 so HP-UX will actually go away in 2013? 07:20:47 As real as HURD, anyway. 07:20:51 Probably. 07:20:54 http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2011/xv6.html 07:20:58 AIX will stay around forever. 07:21:05 Hopefully. 07:21:24 * kmc hasn't actually read the xv6 source, JOS is more interesting 07:21:25 Before that, they released in 2003, then 2002, 2001, 2000, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1992, 1991... And so on. 07:21:54 1991 was a good year. 07:21:58 Yeah, that at least *suggests* HP-UX isn't going to last. 07:22:19 Oh, and it's for PA-RISC and Itanium machines only. 07:22:30 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:22:44 AKA "dead" and "only technically alive", respectively. 07:22:50 JOS is pretty neat 07:22:58 you implement copy-on-write fork() in userspace! 07:23:03 the kernel gives you just enough rope to do so 07:23:13 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:23:14 (the last PA-RISC came out in 2005. Some 3 orders of magnitude ago.) 07:23:19 What's JOS? 07:23:33 in MIT's 6.828 you write portions of an OS named JOS 07:23:43 the materials are all online; you should check it out 07:23:57 Ah, a teaching OS sort of thing. 07:24:04 yeah 07:24:25 Looks neat. 07:24:30 * shachaf should learn more about this topic. 07:24:31 I can't figure out why AIX is still alive, but then, this is IBM. 07:24:34 they call it an "exokernel" 07:24:44 it was never clear to me exactly what this means 07:24:58 They support a 50 year old ISA. 07:25:23 they designed that ISA at the outset knowing they would support it for 50 years :D 07:25:29 System/360? 07:25:34 yeah 07:25:55 ... Oh, wow, I can believe they did. 07:25:57 to be fair, they've extended it a lot, and now include support for 3 address sizes 07:25:58 it was meant from the beginning to be a kind of virtual thing that would upgrade to newer hardware 07:26:03 32-bit addressing in *1964*?!? 07:26:05 lol 31 bit architecture 07:26:18 pikhq_: it started as 24-bit 07:26:42 oh wait, I'm confusing 360 and 370 again 07:26:49 olsner: I'm discussing the ISA, not early implementations thereof. 07:26:52 maybe i am too 07:27:16 The ISA allowed 32-bit addresses even though the early chips didn't work when you went beyond 2^24. 07:27:45 This is ridiculous. 07:27:49 just like x86-64 today 07:28:42 shachaf: the primitive IPC message in JOS is a machine int plus optionally a page mapping 07:28:46 Also, you could operate on 128-bit values. 07:29:17 (though I think early ones couldn't do arithmetic or anything like that on them) 07:29:35 early IBM machines had hardware support for pre-decimal British £sd money 07:30:00 Wow. 07:30:15 in fact there were several different formats for storing same 07:30:20 which you could select with a front panel knob 07:30:40 I wish my computer had knobs. :-( 07:31:46 And blinkenlights? 07:32:46 fun stuff about z/Architecture is that you have something like 19 address spaces you can switch between and access with special instructions 07:33:30 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/IBM_1401_Control_Panel.jpg 07:33:35 "IBM PENCE BSI SHILL" 07:33:42 home, primary, secondary, plus 16 "Access Registers" 07:34:00 64-bit, 31-bit... Presumably also 24-bit, just in case someone needs to run really weird FORTRAN, and? 07:34:11 Oh, address spaces, not schemes. 07:34:24 shachaf: you can attach some knobs and blinkenlights quite easily 07:34:39 i had an analog CPU meter for a while 07:34:48 I never asked for blinkenlichten. 07:35:01 This computer has three pseudo-buttons. 07:35:04 this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgZEfExBBiY 07:35:07 One of them sends Super-X. 07:35:29 One of them dims the screen by slightly less than the regular Fn-dim-screen button. 07:35:55 The third one pops up a big ⊘ on the screen. 07:36:29 shachaf: sounds incredibly useful 07:36:46 Doesn't it just? 07:36:56 Also I need to get my laundry from Outside. 07:37:01 kmc: That's awesome. 07:37:19 there used to be a Ksplice blog post about how i made it 07:37:20 * kmc pouts 07:37:27 but it's just an arduino and a resistor and a small python script 07:37:49 everyone on reddit was like "LAME Y DIDN'T U TAP CPU POWER PINS N00B" 07:37:57 Doesn't change the awesome. 07:37:59 it's an ammeter, you see 07:38:11 Tap CPU power pins? Eeeek. 07:38:29 my laser cutter has a meter on the front panel 07:38:31 labeled "Amperemeter" 07:38:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:38:38 Analog is the new digital. 07:38:39 in that ugly serif font used for Latin letters in Chinese fonts 07:38:46 (the same font is on the rest of the front panel) 07:38:54 it doesn't say anywhere what component it's measuring the amperes of 07:39:30 also the lid interlock switch doesn't work, I should do something about that 07:39:42 Ah, ugly-large monospace. 07:40:14 shachaf: an awesome suckless CPU meter, done right, that celebrates craftsmanship 07:41:07 whoa, dude 07:41:26 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:42:30 shachaf: I think it's cool to have an OS where the lowest level idea of how to send data around involves zero-copy transfers of page mappings 07:42:48 there are probably some "real" microkernels that do this too 07:42:58 Isn't that what L4's known for? 07:43:17 maybe 07:43:34 yeah i guess so 07:43:39 kmc: I came across a job ad that looked vaguely interesting today, but then I saw that it was for Ksplice. 07:43:45 haha 07:43:46 where? 07:44:05 i hear people are still pretty happy there 07:44:08 and you could move to boston 07:44:11 you could also not move to boston 07:44:50 If it's so great why aren't you there? 07:44:59 it's always better on holiday 07:45:04 that's why we only work when we need the money 07:45:31 And on holiday we port mosh to GNU/HURD. 07:45:36 yeah 07:45:38 maybe 07:46:23 I need to get my laundry. 07:46:32 I wonder how the cost of a 4kB memory copy compares to the overhead involved in mapping a new page 07:47:12 yeah 07:47:49 on x86 you mostly have to flush the TLB when context switching anyway 07:48:00 Completely? 07:48:04 yeah, so some of that mapping overhead can be made to disappear into things that you have to do "anyway" 07:48:09 but it could hurt when the two processes are running simultaneously on different cores 07:48:16 then you need to do an IPI to tell the other guy to flush his TLB 07:48:17 not fun 07:48:27 but you can also do new mappings / increased privileges lazily 07:48:37 However, 4kiB memory copy also messes with cache. 4kiB is a lot of cache. 07:48:59 kmc: at the cost of at least one fault in the future 07:49:01 on architectures with tagged TLBs, it might be more painful relatively speaking 07:49:04 yeah 07:49:13 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:49:41 I mean, my L1 is 512k... 07:50:04 -!- Deewiant has joined. 07:53:48 I guess that's what those non-temporal move instructions are for 07:54:27 the TLB flush is a constant cost, while memory copy is not 07:54:30 so there is probably a break-even point 07:55:14 I wonder whether 4kB is still a reasonable page size these days. 07:55:31 It seems like there are a lot of things that huge pages are reasonable for. 07:55:40 Hence why Linux now supports them. 07:55:47 Right. 07:55:56 And I guess it does the transparent huge pages thing these days. 07:56:00 Yeah. 07:56:03 At least in theory. 07:56:09 Automagic 2MiB pages if you turn it on. 07:56:58 hi linux 07:57:07 monqy: You should draw a self-portrait of kmc. 07:57:22 oh dear 07:57:27 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 07:58:39 you can't draw self portraits of other people 07:58:44 PowerPC supports like 1 GB pages, doesn't it? 07:58:54 x86 does too, some models anyway 07:58:54 you can't write someone else's autobiography 07:58:57 I think 16GB? 07:59:11 PowerPC also has a crazy half-hard-filled "inverted page table" TLB 07:59:13 There was some architecture that supported that, anyway. 07:59:30 x86-64 does 1GiB. 07:59:38 * kmc added huge page support to JOS, but only for the kernel direct mapping 07:59:44 x86 could do 4TB pages by using a flag in the same manner it does 2MB/1GB pages 08:00:05 er, 512GB pages 08:02:25 Linux also has a thing to transparently merge pages with the same content 08:02:58 Really? 08:03:04 How does it find them? 08:03:06 for pages that aren't all-zero too? 08:03:24 i think so 08:03:35 shachaf: by scanning all of memory periodically 08:03:40 i think it's not enabled by default... 08:03:50 but can improve memory consumption dramatically on machines hosting a large number of similar VMs 08:04:17 Ah, hmm. 08:06:03 It's enabled by default *but* only scans pages with the appropriate madvise() set. 08:06:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_SamePage_Merging_(KSM) ? 08:06:27 ah yeah 08:06:30 MADV_MERGEABLE, apparently. 08:08:04 -!- ais523_ has joined. 08:08:10 -!- ais523_ has quit (Changing host). 08:08:10 -!- ais523_ has joined. 08:08:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:08:23 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 08:12:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:12:28 -!- ais523_ has joined. 08:12:35 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 08:18:07 kmc: Was there a verdict about mosh mouse? 08:18:22 we were just talking about that in #mosh 08:18:43 the verdict is that it's a mess and i don't want to do it 08:18:44 https://github.com/keithw/mosh/issues/101 08:18:54 Oh, yes, you were. 08:19:02 Is #mosh the place to be? 08:19:42 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 08:20:52 -!- Lymee has joined. 08:21:33 -!- Madoka-Kaname has quit (*.net *.split). 08:21:33 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split). 08:21:34 -!- qfr has quit (*.net *.split). 08:22:11 -!- qfr has joined. 08:25:07 shachaf: it is... a place to be 08:25:23 i should get a mosh project hostname cloak 08:25:28 but i failed to discover how to do that 08:25:42 kmc: you have to ask the group contact for the projet 08:25:44 *project 08:25:48 and be identified on freenode 08:26:27 how do i find out who the group contact for a project is 08:26:32 it might be me 08:26:34 i'm the founder of #mosh 08:27:26 kmc: SOunds like you're in trouble. 08:27:31 is there a group contact? the channel would have to be registered with Freenode 08:27:38 That would be like drawing a self-portrait of *yourself*. 08:27:42 A self-self-portrait. 08:27:47 whoa, man 08:27:49 not just with chanserv, but with the people in charge of running the servers 08:27:58 ah 08:28:35 The Freenode FAQ talks about it, but it seems to be down. 08:28:40 :( 08:28:41 Probably has something to do with the splits. 08:28:54 netshits 08:30:04 http://www.google.com/search?strip=1&q=cache:freenode.net/faq.shtml 08:30:35 I should get a cloak. 08:31:23 paperwork :/ 08:32:24 If you make elliott an op he would take care of the paperwork for you. 08:32:29 He would also go crazy and ban everybody. 08:32:43 i think i... won't do that 08:33:32 Actually he probably wouldn't do either of those things. 08:34:11 Do you have to be affiliated with MIT to get a .mit.edu subdomain for your project? 08:35:22 i don't know exactly what the rules are 08:35:29 affiliation is a slippery thing at MIT 08:35:56 Maybe I should try to get one. I was in an MIT building once. 08:36:06 It's probably good for seeming legitimate. 08:36:48 many student groups will let you join without ever having been officially affiliated with MIT 08:36:59 they can also sponsor an Athena account for you, whether or not you join their group 08:37:09 i don't know if that alone is enough to get domain names 08:39:46 and yeah, it is good for seeming legitimate 08:39:58 at least one person told us they would have assumed our software is insecure if not for the .mit.edu domain name 08:52:23 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:56:50 kmc: I guess I would need to move to Boston. 09:15:06 to join an MIT club? 09:18:42 Maybe not. 09:18:47 They did a SIPB thing here once. 09:19:36 oh, really? 09:19:37 what was it 09:20:09 you could move to Cambridge or Somerville or Brookline instead 09:21:08 or Newton 09:21:17 or other such places 09:22:19 SIPB hackathon at Stripe in Palo Alto. 09:22:40 what did they hack on? 09:22:42 Debathena? XVM? 09:22:52 I think they just had a bunch of people go there. 09:23:03 I'm not sure that there was an overarching thing. 09:24:02 i should join SIPB 09:24:13 i'm not sure how much effort this would take 10:04:35 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:04:41 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:08:04 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:09:23 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:11:33 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:22:40 -!- cheater has joined. 10:33:34 -!- asiekierka has joined. 10:37:20 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:37:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:08:48 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:13:16 -!- Deewiant has joined. 11:17:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:17:54 "Super Mario Bros (along with many other Nintendo games) was proved to be NP-hard by Greg Aloupis, Erik Demaine and Alan Guoyz.[64]" :-D 11:18:10 http://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.1895v1.pdf 11:18:35 -!- Deewiant has joined. 11:18:59 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:19:56 includes a section on pokemon 11:22:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:31:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:37:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:41:16 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:43:08 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:52:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:54:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:06:54 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:09:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:11:17 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:12:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:17:19 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:20:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:36:21 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:38:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:44:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:47:34 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:48:46 -!- absentswett has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:49:01 -!- Ngevd has joined. 12:49:09 Hello! 12:50:31 -!- absentswett has joined. 12:50:49 hi Ngevd 12:51:03 Did you see my half-esolang? 12:52:35 what was its name? 12:52:44 It's half-name. 12:52:48 User:Taneb/Lowgate and Dilston 12:52:51 itidus20: the Pokémon proof is actually incorrect, due to a glitch in Pokémon first generation 12:52:55 Ngevd: no, I didn't 12:52:56 I've posted Lowgate 12:53:01 Still need to define Dilston 12:53:13 there's a chance that the exploding voltorbs will miss altogether; also, the gastly will level up from them 12:53:30 and levelling up an l1 gastly takes it to l100, unless it gains a lot of exp all at once 12:53:37 If the Collatz conjecture is false, at least one of Lowgate and Dilston is Turing-complete 12:54:34 (Lowgate for infinite trajectories, Dilston for cycles) 12:55:46 Ngevd: the mere fact you made that statement makes me optimistic that this esolang won't be the usual rubbish that gets added to the wiki 12:56:41 :D 12:56:52 Lowgate is a Suffolk derivative, I'm afraid 12:57:03 And Dilston will probably be a derivative of something else 13:05:49 meh, Suffolk is not a boring language to make derivatives of, yet anyway 13:07:42 Ngevd: err, Suffolk doesn't depend on infinitely many accessible cells to work 13:07:47 in fact, you can access only a finite number 13:08:36 Damn. 13:08:43 Here was me being all clever 13:09:39 Actually... 13:14:05 Well, it's good it's still in userspace 13:15:41 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:15:56 I think this is the second time I've been annoyed at one of my languages being /too/ turing-complete 13:31:30 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 13:33:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:39:56 -!- elliott has joined. 13:40:51 ais523: I think David.werecat has the "Mark all edits minor by default" option on :P 13:40:51 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 13:41:28 14:41 Sgeo said 7h 16m 25s ago: I just found out about http://www.zincland.com/7drl/kobold/ from TVTropes. Have you tried it? 13:41:29 elliott: go into the database and turn it off 13:41:33 Sgeo: kobolds aren't smart & i like them 13:41:36 ais523: I was going to ;) 13:41:45 oh, and Smart Kobolds, you should try that, I've been meaning to for quite a while 13:41:58 but I don't want to kill kobolds, and kobolds aren't smart! 13:42:05 even if Jeff Lait originally created it as a combination of making a point, and trolling 13:42:14 hmm, what point? 13:43:11 yay, MediaWiki 1.19 is out 13:43:43 elliott: that better AI does not necessarily make for a better game 13:49:25 -!- MoALTz has joined. 13:50:56 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:04:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:04:32 monqy: hi 14:31:39 @tell Taneb You should make Lowgate true iff Collatz is false, and Dilston true iff Collatz is true. 14:31:39 Consider it noted. 14:31:57 ais523: prepare the fire extinguishers, please 14:32:10 elliott: I'm right here 14:32:22 @tell Ngevd You should make Lowgate true iff Collatz is false, and Dilston true iff Collatz is true. 14:32:22 Consider it noted. 14:32:30 @messages 14:32:30 elliott said 8s ago: You should make Lowgate true iff Collatz is false, and Dilston true iff Collatz is true. 14:32:35 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 14:32:43 @clear-messages 14:32:43 Messages cleared. 14:32:47 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd. 14:32:49 What if you had other messages??? 14:32:57 Too bad. 14:33:07 "Too bad." -- Ngevd, horrible. 14:33:14 Ngevd: I'm going to break the wiki! 14:33:18 Yay! 14:33:38 "Yay!" -- Ngevd, still horrible. 14:39:33 Ngevd: Will you do that? 14:39:40 Probably not 14:39:53 I can't think of any way of making a language that's iff either way 14:40:18 Ngevd: Well, you could make it so that the only way to get new storage is to go to the next element in the Collatz sequence. 14:40:25 (Where variables are identified by integers.) 14:40:38 Like the current version of Lowgate 14:40:54 That way, if every sequence reaches 1, every program gets a finite amount of memory. 14:40:55 However, the Collatz conjecture is also false if there is a positive loop other than 1-4-2-1 14:41:13 Yes, but a loop also stops you getting infinite memory. 14:41:17 So, if there's a loop but no infinite ascent, that wouldn't be turing complete 14:41:18 Because you'll just loop through the same few variables. 14:41:29 Oh, I see. 14:41:32 Good point. 14:41:40 Hence the two languages 14:45:25 ais523: Pang. 14:49:52 elliott: gnap? 14:50:10 (I think the response is pung?) 14:50:20 I don't care I@m too tired 14:50:43 "I don't care I@m too tired" -- ais523, 2012 14:50:58 ""I don't care I@m too tired" -- ais523, 2012" — elliott, 2012 14:51:07 Damn, I got the em dash treatment. 14:51:10 That's classy. 14:51:11 ais523, you're something to do with education in Birmingham, right? 14:51:18 ais523 *is* education in Birmingham. 14:51:25 Ngevd: I spent much of the morning marking exams 14:51:39 although I spent the time from around 6am to around 7am reading Usenet and fixing aimake 14:51:46 ais523: Anyway, I'm going to make Esolang's MediaWiki sourced from git so that upgrading is less annoying. 14:51:49 ais523, can you reccomend Birmingham University? 14:51:57 ais523: Should I use the WMF branches or the MediaWiki tags? 14:52:01 *release tags? 14:52:15 Ngevd: *reccommendd 14:52:39 Ngevd: for what? it depends on what subject you're doing 14:52:49 Maths, most likely 14:52:50 gymnastics and dog theory 14:52:51 I like the atmosphere here, at least 14:53:00 Ngevd: You're not doing gymnastics and dog theory??? 14:53:08 elliott, don't have the GCSEs. 14:53:10 if you're coming here next year, you should do maths and CS so I can teach you :) 14:53:33 As in, September 2013? 14:54:03 oh, hmm, it'd probably have to be september 2012 unless they decide that they have to hire me for another year in an emergency 14:54:36 their problem is that the budget is too small to hire new staff or even retain existing staff, also that they don't really have enough teaching staff 14:54:48 That sucks? 14:55:00 Well, tell me how things go 14:55:10 they're putting me in charge of the first year Java course next year (rather than just teaching it without being in charge) because they can't find anyone else with the knowledge to do the job 14:55:24 and I pointed out that it'd only last for one more year before my contract expires 14:55:50 also that they're not paying much more than minimum wage 14:56:00 :/ 14:57:00 however, the person who was doing it before they kept on for a year, maybe two years, after their PhD because he'd become so essential to the running of the department 14:57:08 good thing you're WOLFRAM RICH* 14:57:13 and I think he only left because Aston University poached him by offering more money 14:57:14 *not rich, by analogy with "Wolfram science", etc. 14:57:33 elliott: meh, it paid for three years of my education and living costs, that's a reasonably significant amount 14:59:06 wait, ais523 didn't answer my question :'( 15:03:35 ais523, how desperate is Birmingham University for students? 15:03:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 15:03:53 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:04:15 Ngevd: depends on the subject 15:04:26 For CS and Maths 15:04:29 they have ridiculously large numbers of students in some departments, like electronics 15:04:39 *like economics 15:04:46 and have to bribe them for others, like engineering 15:05:07 Ngevd: Go wherever Phantom_Hoover's going and become the ultimate brickbraining team. 15:05:24 What, Cambridge!? 15:05:39 I don't like there maths syllabus 15:05:39 for CS, I think they get enough applications that they can afford to be selective 15:05:42 No, I think Cambridge rejected him. 15:05:47 Because he's Scottish. 15:05:49 Okay, okay 15:06:01 It's some place in the middle of nowhere in Scotland. 15:06:24 If he got into a Scottish universities, I can pretend to be Dutch to get university for free 15:07:48 But yes, I'm beginning to think of universities 15:08:13 And I've just accidentally opened Rome Total War, brb 15:08:20 -!- derdon has joined. 15:08:27 ais523: 15:52 ais523: Should I use the WMF branches or the MediaWiki tags? 15:08:28 :( 15:08:51 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:09:07 Back 15:09:24 elliott: oh, I actually don't know 15:09:52 Ngevd: scottish universities have a bunch of advantages over english universities (well, the main one is to do with cost) 15:10:12 Time TO CLAIM TO BE DUTCH 15:10:17 I guess the WMF branches will be more up-to-date and the like, but they might be a bit less stable. (Even if they are used on Wikipedia, the WMF employs a bunch of sysadmins to fix it when it breaks.) 15:10:26 And I'd have to update less with the release tags. 15:20:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:23:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 15:24:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:24:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:25:28 ais523: how much is university typically in the UK? 15:25:44 coppro: I don't know, because it was massively increased recently (as in, since I went there) 15:25:56 how much was it when you went 15:25:57 ? 15:25:57 £9000 a year 15:26:01 Now 15:26:09 (maximum, not including living costs) 15:26:13 O_o 15:26:23 coppro: £1150, but I got a £1000 discount the first year, and £500 subsequent years, for good academic performance 15:26:29 again, this doesn't include living costs 15:26:31 Cheaper than US, I believe 15:26:35 Ngevd: true 15:26:46 coppro: although you get a low-interest loan for the full amount and don't have to pay it back until you start earning money 15:26:59 so it basically ends up equivalent to a percentage tax that stops being charged eventually 15:27:01 yeah, it's the same here 15:27:12 usually 15:27:26 if the government had flavoured it as that, they'd probably get a lot less flak for it; it pretty much single-handedly sank the Liberal Democrat party 15:27:28 "University costs in X are better than the US" is a tautology for all X =/= US. 15:27:39 ^ 15:27:51 Domestic tuition here is cheaper, than that, but international tuition is more. 15:28:00 ais523: I think what sank the lib dems is doing that *because they said they wouldn't*. 15:28:44 elliott: the ridiculous thing is that what the lib dems were actually proposing was strictly worse for the students 15:28:47 (I don't think that's the only reason the Lib Dems are fucked, though.) 15:28:51 just none of them paid attention 15:29:22 ais523: It still isn't very good for trust if you explicitly do something you campaigned on the premise of not doing, though. 15:29:31 right 15:29:41 *promise (although premise works too) 15:29:48 basically, what I'm saying is that the government pulled a stupid move in not using the conservative proposal with the lib dem flavour 15:29:57 which would have kept pretty much everyone happy 15:30:07 it's about £12500/yr for an international student at my school 15:30:10 apart from the people who want tuition fees to be abolished altogether 15:30:23 At least the Conservatives are getting a terrible reputation as well as the Lib Dems. 15:31:22 I guess next time we'll elect the BNP or something on account of nobody liking the big three any more. 15:31:46 elect the omrlp 15:32:04 coppro: They're indistinguishable from all the other parties. 15:32:05 elliott: you realise that there's a Green MP atm, right? 15:32:17 a sign that people are taking fourth options seriously 15:32:19 ais523: OK, coalition of the Greens and NBP. 15:32:21 *BNP 15:32:26 ais523: The Best Government Ever(TM). 15:32:31 they'd never go into coalition with each other 15:32:37 elliott, needs more George Galloway 15:32:45 ais523: oh, I didn't realize you guys got a green mp too 15:32:56 coppro: we never do, except this time we did 15:33:11 A Green-BNP coalition might work out, on account of the government wouldn't be able to do a single thing. 15:33:15 she picked her seat very carefully, it was a case of picking the seat they thought they were most likely to win and then focusing a load of campaign effort on it 15:33:32 meh, we should have a pirate party/ninja party coalition 15:33:39 Ninja party is a thing? 15:33:44 no 15:33:49 ais523: same here 15:33:55 Let's make it a thing? 15:34:06 Ngevd: what would its policies even be? 15:34:19 she picked her riding well 15:34:20 ais523: pro-copyright 15:34:24 anti-talk like a pirate day 15:34:38 move like a ninja day 15:34:42 elliott: I don't think they'd be defined by being the exact opposite of the pirate party 15:34:48 I think it'd be a parallel with different goals 15:34:58 Promoting language education? 15:35:01 i.e. apathetic about copyright and pirate speech, but very motivated about a couple of other issues 15:35:08 ais523: In the same way that ninjas are analogous to pirates with different goals? 15:35:21 It's more like they have the same goal but very different methods. 15:35:25 The goal is killing people, or something. 15:35:27 hmm, OK 15:35:49 so ninjas should also be in favour of copyright reform, but instead of stealing it, would rather just massacre people who tried to enforce it? 15:35:51 or something 15:35:54 Right! 15:36:00 (Stealing copyright reform?) 15:36:18 elliott: /illegally downloading/ copyright reform 15:36:22 get your terminology right… 15:36:28 You're the one who said stealing! 15:36:39 the problem with a ninja government is that they'd never be able to prove that the commons got quorum 15:36:50 You wouldn't download copyright reform... 15:37:02 Wait, it's actually *steal. 15:37:05 My mind mentally fixed the advert. 15:37:10 As opposed to physically fixing it. 15:38:06 it is TIME to WALK my DOG 15:38:12 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: walking dog). 15:38:28 I always new Ngevd was a walking dog. 15:38:53 *knew 15:40:51 elliott: that's copyright violation for the rights in the fixation of a performance 15:41:07 coppro: wat 15:41:23 ais523: you don't have a PhD, right? 15:41:30 he has 523 15:41:34 coppro: I'm currently obtaining one 15:41:35 oh my bad 15:41:36 ah ok 15:41:57 ais523: Once you get a Ph.D., you should sign your emails "ais, 523 Ph.D.". 15:42:02 And FOOL EVERYONE. 15:42:18 I know, it's devious. 15:42:53 dr. s523 15:43:04 Does that mean you're an AI? 15:43:36 I don't know 15:43:52 ais523: you're researching programming languages, right? 15:44:15 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9243475/lists-c-homework/9247613#9247613 what a comment section 15:44:20 coppro: I'm researching compiling high-level languages to hardware, which involves inventing new ones 15:44:24 coppro: he's doing hardware programming language stuff 15:44:41 because there were no modern variants of algol specialised for hardware, oddly enough 15:44:48 huh 15:44:53 z 15:45:08 `addquote coppro: I'm researching compiling high-level languages to hardware, which involves inventing new ones because there were no modern variants of algol specialised for hardware, oddly enough 15:45:18 852) coppro: I'm researching compiling high-level languages to hardware, which involves inventing new ones because there were no modern variants of algol specialised for hardware, oddly enough 15:45:36 elliott: I can't expand the 128 more comments link without turning on JS 15:45:45 but the last comment above the fold is hilarious enough by itself 15:45:46 ais523: you're lucky 15:46:00 but yes, that's amazing 15:46:02 I can think of a few ways it could go from there; which did it actually do? 15:46:21 eznme proceeded to spoon-feed beginnernato for a hundred comments 15:46:27 hahahahahahah 15:46:32 that question is totally from a UW student 15:46:44 that code is /definitely/ from our second CS course 15:46:50 elliott: legitimate info or trolling? 15:46:54 * elliott upvotes the last comment above the fold 15:47:03 ais523: legitimate (albeit academically dishonest on beginnernato's part, naturally) 15:47:14 indeed, I just ment on eznme's part 15:47:31 (and probably not too ethical on eznme's part by consequence) 15:47:31 also, how does an answer get 128 comments and exactly 1 vote? 15:47:39 ais523: because only two people are participating in it 15:47:45 they're using it as a chatroom 15:47:47 meh, eznme may well turn out to be the prof who set the problem 15:48:00 despite the warning that will have appeared for about 120 of them 15:48:16 (it says, roughly, "don't use comments for extended discussion, if you click this link we'll turn it into a Stack Overflow chatroom for you") 15:50:22 eznme was definitely not the prof 15:51:30 the prof almost certainly would not have given away the answers 15:51:40 at least not so quickly 15:52:17 coppro: there's several tales of profs giving away the answer immediately so that they could catch plagiarism red-handed if it was actually used unchanged 15:52:24 although more commonly for essay-writing than in CS 15:53:48 hmm, running git as root 15:54:32 also, huh 15:54:44 I appear to have gained several thousand reputation since last time I was visiting stackoverflow O_o 15:54:57 almost 2k 15:54:59 several _thousand_? 15:55:04 yes 15:55:10 you have an answer with 396 votes 15:55:12 yeah 15:55:12 that probably explains i 15:55:13 *it 15:55:21 it keeps getting more 15:55:25 ah, from 2008 15:55:31 viewed 64,682 times 15:55:34 and tagged [c++-faq] 15:55:36 you won the jackpot 15:55:56 haha 15:56:06 I'm nearly a moderator due largely to that question 15:56:17 THIS SYSTEM IS SMRT 15:56:18 "moderator" generally refers to the elected moderators 15:56:23 the 10k moderator tools are... not as impressive 15:56:49 you mostly just get to see flags and to second or disagree with them (not act on them), and things like recently closed questions 15:56:58 coppro: I think if I edited that post, it'd become community wiki and you'd stop getting any rep on it 15:57:06 so tempting why can't this client do bold 15:57:40 elliott: do you lose rep if a post you got rep for becomes community wiki? 15:57:49 coppro: oh no, you asked one of those terrible "What's your favourite X feature?" questions :( 15:57:55 ais523: no, you just stop getting any more rep 15:59:01 * ais523 checks how http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/05/01/2146232/android-ported-to-c is getting on 15:59:12 that URL is misleading 15:59:14 not loading, it seems 15:59:19 and yes, it's missing the # 15:59:23 ais523: the flamewars slashdotted slashdot 15:59:32 hey, remember when everybody's servers sucked and slashdotting was a thing??? 15:59:42 it's 503 15:59:48 and yes, sort-of 15:59:54 I was only around for the tail end of it, though 16:00:01 reddit still manages to slashdot sites now and again, though 16:00:01 I bet nethack4.org could be slashdotted. 16:00:08 possibly 16:00:19 ais523: that's more because people don't know how to configure WordPress than reddit sending tons of traffic 16:00:23 the patch-tag page on AceHack /was/ slashdotted 16:00:31 elliott: well, indeed 16:00:34 but it held up 16:00:37 AceHack got on slashdot? 16:00:43 yep :) 16:00:48 what, as a standalone post? 16:00:52 or as part of a post about NetHack variants? 16:00:52 with a bunch of other variants 16:00:54 the latter seems more believable 16:00:59 right 16:01:05 elliott: if you edit it, it doesn't become community wiki unless you choose to make it so 16:01:15 coppro: no, if it gets edited by 5 other people it becomes CW 16:01:21 really? 16:01:29 (but you can flag it to be put back by a moderator, if other people have only made minor edits) 16:01:38 ah 16:02:02 (elected moderator again, not 10k) 16:02:17 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:02:31 right 16:03:16 elliott@solidity:/srv/esolangs.org/www/mediawiki-new/extensions$ for ext in AbuseFilter AntiSpoof CheckUser ConfirmEdit Nuke ParserFunctions Renameuser Vector WikiEditor; do sudo git clone https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/p/mediawiki/extensions/$ext.git; done 16:03:18 fun 16:03:45 what is nuke? ban a user and rollback all their edits? 16:04:14 mass deletes pages created by a certain user 16:04:22 I think it was designed for Wikipedia vandals and Esolang really has no use for it 16:04:27 but I can't not enable such a destructive extension 16:05:40 hmm 16:05:43 does git track permissions? 16:05:49 oh, it tracks at least +x, I guess 16:06:46 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:07:31 -!- elliott has joined. 16:07:41 my connection :( 16:18:02 -!- augur has joined. 16:21:53 No, I think Cambridge rejected him. 16:21:55 Lies! 16:22:05 I have an offer, although it's not really a pleasant one. 16:22:18 Offer: "Go die in a fire, you Scottish asswipe." 16:22:55 -!- Zuu_ has changed nick to Zuu. 16:23:26 Hey shachaf, I'm reading a poor blog post about Haskell! 16:28:38 So for some reason I'm downloading TortoiseSVN, except they've rigged the download page not to display if you're using an adblocker. 16:29:21 "Windows" — Phantom_Hoover 16:29:34 Phantom_Hoover: No, it just plain doesn't display. 16:30:06 You're... right. 16:30:10 wat 16:30:27 It's obviously trivial to find the downloads. 16:30:31 But why would you want TortoiseSVN? 16:30:51 Some idiot mod authors decided to make theirs available through SVN. 16:31:04 ...how is that idiotic? And since when does that mean you need to use TortoiseSVN? 16:31:23 I'm literally following the instructions on their website. 16:31:43 Also c'mon, mods are not exactly aimed at a demographic who can use SVN. 16:31:59 pikhq: Ping? coppro: Ping? Deewiant: Ping? Does anyone know git? :p 16:32:22 Phantom_Hoover: Well, you're doing well to show you're well inside the technically-incompetent demographic you're talking about. 16:33:02 ...why, because I follow instructions rather than critiquing every step? 16:34:03 Because you follow instructions telling you how to check something out from SVN using a Windows GUI, rather than just checking it out using SVN itself, and then treat being unable to obtain the GUI tool as a roadblock? 16:35:20 Because I took the path of least resistance rather than spending five minutes finding out how to use SVN on Windows? 16:35:41 Wait, why am I even biting. 16:37:33 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:38:21 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:40:49 FYI, the Subversion site itself links to 3 GUIs, a 32-bit build on SourceForge and a broken page. 16:41:31 If you're going to call me an idiot at least do it properly. 16:42:11 Not a 32-bit build!!! 16:42:32 It's almost as if the vast majority of Windows applications are 32-bit :P 16:42:56 The 32-bit build is the last of five downloads. 16:43:10 Also I know, it makes me feel so unclean. 16:44:09 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:44:29 elliott: what's up? 16:44:32 what do you want to do? 16:44:35 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:44:47 coppro: if I change the ownership/permissions of a directory tracked by git, will it notice? 16:44:52 i.e. does it track that stuff? 16:44:54 I forget 16:44:56 I think it tracks at least +x 16:45:30 it tracks exactly +x 16:45:54 good, I'm not changing +x :) 16:46:16 "the files all have mode 644 or 755: git actually only pays attention to the executable bit". -- them manual. 16:47:05 Problem 2: about all I know of svn is that you use svn clone to download, and the Windows build apparently doesn't install an svn command. 16:47:19 * elliott wonders if git checkout-index does submodules. 16:47:39 Phantom_Hoover: Maybe you *would* be better off with TortoiseSVN. 16:47:40 Phantom_Hoover: "svn checkout", there is no "svn clone". 16:48:05 (I guess probably: not.) 16:48:09 (re submodules.) 16:49:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:50:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:50:06 fizzie: How would you create a copy of a git repository including submodules without the .git? 16:50:46 * elliott is trying to make Esolang's MediaWiki installation + extensions sourced from the git repos (and maintain LocalSettings.php in it too), but each extension is in a separate git repository, so... 16:50:51 Surely git archive can do it? 16:51:09 (And MediaWiki's upgrade method means that I can't just reasonably maintain it in-place.) 16:51:17 Gregor: Does that do submodules? 16:51:23 submodules are kinda... second-class. 16:51:24 I don't know, but I would assume so. 16:51:30 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:51:32 Out of SHEER OPTIMISM 16:51:41 More to the point, it's worth a try. 16:51:51 Trying things is more difficult than asking people. 16:52:01 Well, then let me answer you this way: 16:52:10 git is fucking terrible, I don't know what it does because I hate it. 16:52:15 Thanks! 16:53:40 All I know about submodules is that I think they're kinda iffy. 16:54:01 fizzie: I don't really like them. But I can't think of a better way to maintain the extension directories. 16:55:34 But if all you need is in the working copy, maybe you could just rsync (or some other git-unaware tool) with suitable ignore rules for everything ".gitty". 16:55:58 s/ignore/exclude/ 16:56:11 fizzie: That would work, but is disgusting. :( 16:56:43 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:56:45 fizzie: "GIT_WORK_TREE=/blah git checkout" might work. Except that doesn't do submodules either, does it... 16:56:49 -!- Ngevd has joined. 16:56:53 Helllo 16:57:09 HELLO 16:57:42 -!- Deewiant has joined. 16:58:01 Apparently there are quite a few "git-archive-all" style scripts that do submodules too floating around the tubes. They all suck, of course. (I'm assuming that last part.) 16:58:53 sigh 17:01:07 In Dungeons&Dragons game, I saw a gnome riding on a donkey; I was hiding in the tree. And ask him, who is he? And stay hidden so that they cannot find us. But then the wizard said he knows him his name is Git and he exited from the hiding and then I did too soon afterward 17:01:13 Phantom_Hoover: "svn checkout", there is no "svn clone". 17:01:14 Oh 17:01:46 Yeah I basically don't know anything about RCSes other than that there are like a billion of them and they all make downloading things that bit more complicated. 17:01:54 ... 17:02:03 This is facetious. 17:03:11 And I have read that the git version system was named after its inventor even though that wasn't his name 17:03:18 Git Torvalds 17:03:28 You can just feel zzo's confusion. 17:03:45 -!- Deewiant has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:03:53 Torvalds is just a git, that's all. 17:04:12 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:04:35 Gregor: You realise that's literally the origin of the name, right? 17:07:44 I'm unsurprised, but was unaware. 17:09:38 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:10:14 God, MediaWiki's file layout is incredibly annoying. 17:10:28 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:10:33 I really want to make Rasmus fucking Lerdorf hurt for making people put code in the same directory as data. 17:11:03 (s/data/mutable data/ to appease the Lispers.) 17:12:08 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:14:15 OK, I'll just do the terrible thing. 17:14:27 Wait, that won't work. 17:15:01 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:15:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:16:32 -!- elliott has joined. 17:16:52 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:24:18 Hmm, this is super annoying. 17:24:28 I... guess I could do fizzie's rsync thing. 17:24:49 -!- Ngevd has joined. 17:25:02 Hello 17:25:47 HELLO. 17:31:20 Actually, I couldn't quite do fizzie's rsync thing. 17:31:53 Oh, I could just forget about the .git thing and do 17:32:17 git clone --recursive blah mediawiki-new && cd mediawiki-new && cp -a ../mediawiki/{the,stuff} . && sudo -u www-data php maintanence/update.php 17:32:19 but... ew. 17:41:17 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:42:01 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:42:10 -!- augur has joined. 17:43:00 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:55:56 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 17:55:56 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:56:08 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:56:58 -!- elliott has joined. 18:02:08 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:02:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:04:04 -!- Deewiant has joined. 18:05:30 -!- asiekierka has joined. 18:10:28 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:13:29 -!- Deewiant has joined. 18:13:40 -!- cheater has joined. 18:17:00 -!- cheater has quit (Excess Flood). 18:17:50 -!- cheater has joined. 18:19:00 -!- nortti has joined. 18:30:01 Gregor: You should totally upgrade MediaWiki for me. 18:30:14 ... no. 18:32:11 Gregor: That sounds like "yes" to me! 18:33:11 -!- boily has joined. 18:38:08 -!- nortti has quit. 18:39:11 -!- nortti has joined. 18:40:22 Have you heard about the freedom of speech ranking? Finland, Norway and Sweden are on the first place, USA is on place 22 along with Estonia, Brittain is on the place 31 and on place 179 is North Korea 18:43:29 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:43:45 I would respond, but I'd likely be arrestede 18:44:31 Ngevd: where do you live 18:45:01 UK 18:45:23 I'm one of the two Hexhamites 18:45:28 `? Hexham 18:45:31 Hexham? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:47:07 I have found out that freenode only wants SASL certificate from users of the IPS I use 18:48:18 -!- elliott has left ("rage"). 18:49:36 -!- wyldstallyns has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:51:16 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:55:01 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:55:32 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Tanebrb. 18:57:03 -!- nortti_ has joined. 18:57:17 -!- elliott has joined. 18:57:20 hi, monqy 18:58:31 Because webchat likes to throw me out at random I will be stalking the logs and commenting if I feels like it. When I really quit I will put qdb.us url as my quit message 18:58:44 hello 18:59:21 other quits just mean that it will take longer for me to answer 18:59:38 how awful 19:00:38 -!- Tanebrb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:00:39 what do you mean? 19:01:37 -!- cheater has joined. 19:04:50 rip monqy "died doing what he loved best: identifying things" 19:04:54 :( 19:05:32 -!- Tanebrb has joined. 19:05:55 -!- Tanebrb has changed nick to Ngevd. 19:05:56 Hello 19:07:37 hi 19:09:44 monqy: what happened 19:10:01 scrole of immolation 19:10:14 scroll of ded 19:10:17 yes 19:10:27 if i wanted to survive i would have read fog and blinked 19:10:28 but 19:10:32 "who cares about that" 19:11:20 -!- Foggalong has joined. 19:11:25 -!- Foggalong has quit (Client Quit). 19:12:46 hi foggalong 19:12:48 bye foggalong 19:15:10 hi elliott 19:15:18 elliott, tomorrow is DWARF FORTRESS DAY 19:15:18 "Step one: Shave his bullet-deflecting mustache." 19:17:51 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: STUFF). 19:18:46 "I'm an atheist for the next half hour, piss off." 19:21:33 -!- elliott has left. 19:21:44 "The members of The Southern Brotherhood were planning to assassinate Tsar Alexander I when he would be attending military manouevres in Ukraine in 1826. But, in November 1825, the Tsar suddenly died, [thus shitting all over the Brotherhood's plans to kill him]". 19:22:26 good bye, elliott 19:24:20 lolwtf, the page loads, displays, then redirects to a blank page 19:25:51 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:30:28 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:30:33 -!- elliott has joined. 19:30:47 Oh boy, this MW situation is more of a pain than I thought. 19:31:07 The .gitignore specifically ignores stuff in the extensions directory, and LocalSettings.php. 19:31:13 Can you git add things that are .gitignored? 19:31:22 Does that stop git commit -a from committing them? 19:32:59 Okay, answer to the first question is yes. 19:33:01 Maybe I should just try the second one. 19:33:33 Ah, it does work. 19:33:37 OK, I guess I'll just do that then. 19:33:55 ok, you do that then 19:35:24 -!- Deewiant has joined. 19:40:33 "ok, you do that then" -- olsner, 2012 19:41:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:41:12 -!- Gregor has set topic: #esoteric: Surprisingly often, covered in tree sap | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 19:41:26 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:43:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:43:27 -!- nortti has joined. 19:43:29 Gregor: More like "I volunteer to upgrade Esolang's MediaWiki installation", am I right? 19:44:11 "git pull" isn't atomic, right? 19:44:14 Err, "git merge" I should say. 19:44:24 http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2012/05/02/is-your-teen-browsing-the-pr0n/ 19:44:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:45:28 First off, let’s look at the title: how do you know if your teenage kids are browsing teh pornz? Well, there are easy steps to find out: 19:45:31 Step the first: they are. Period. Full stop. End of list. 19:45:31 great article nortti 19:45:34 "thanks a lote" 19:47:36 Loving how this article completely denies the existence of asexuals. 19:47:49 taneb looks at porn for research purposes only 19:48:08 monqy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_Other_Than_English 19:48:10 thanks, lote 19:48:46 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:48:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lote,_Norway 19:48:51 thanks, lote 19:49:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lote_Raikabula 19:49:01 thanks, lote 19:49:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lote_tree 19:49:08 thanks, lote 19:50:46 Does anyone know how I could get "ssh solidity sudo cat /srv/esolangs.org/www/mediawiki/LocalSettings.php >Localsettings.php" to run without sudo complaining that there's no tty present? 19:50:52 Oh, right, ssh doesn't supply a tty if you give it a command. 19:50:57 That's annoying. I wonder if there's some way to override that. 19:53:04 ah, -t 19:54:06 monqy: wow if you think that article's bad take a look at the one it's responding to 19:54:11 Do They Browse the Web with the Door Closed? 19:54:15 Have they Rearranged their Room so the Monitor Faces Away from the Door? 19:54:18 Do They Get Nervous and Uncomfortable When You Use Their Computer? 19:54:21 Is Your Browser History Periodically Erased? 19:54:35 i didn't even bother looking 19:54:41 i saw the thing i pasted and then just closed it 19:54:46 "enough article for me, monqy" 19:54:53 - me, monqy 19:57:53 I wish I was called me, monq. 19:57:54 I wish I was called me, monqy. 19:58:16 it's a good name to have 19:58:17 monqy: Is your LOS square in real life, too? 19:58:36 i 19:58:38 i don't know D: 19:58:48 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:59:09 alas 20:00:09 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:01:20 -!- nortti_ has joined. 20:02:12 elliott: ylös 20:02:17 what 20:02:51 in finnish alas=down ylös=up 20:03:03 oops 20:05:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:05:24 hi elliott 20:05:35 apparently "oops" in croatian means "lol" 20:05:40 thanks google translate 20:05:43 oops 20:05:48 I heard you were reading "a poor blog post about haskell" 20:05:52 hi monqy 20:05:53 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:06:07 today I may or may not draw a self portrait of myself 20:06:14 gasp 20:06:18 A self-self-portrait. 20:06:28 so meta 20:06:42 im envisioning the future breakdown of monqy after he is inundated with self portrait requests 20:06:43 *envisions* 20:06:50 monqy: Do you think you could write an autobiography of me sometime? 20:07:04 i dunno 20:07:14 autobiographies are a lot of work! 20:07:23 are you writing autobiographies too 20:07:25 Just a short one then? 20:08:18 "PLEASE SEND YOUR POSTAL MAILING ADDRESS SO THAT I MAY SEND A REPLY FROM PROF. DONALD KNUTH TO YOUR EMAIL TO HIM." 20:08:33 My email had a POSTAL MAILING ADDRESS. 20:10:26 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:11:14 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Jennefervoc6006 20:11:18 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:11:26 monqy: Are you going to draw a self-potrrait of kmc? 20:11:31 I think he earned one. 20:12:13 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:16:35 monqy: anyway i was referring to the foreground part not the kitten yes 20:16:38 it still looks familiar to me!!! 20:19:52 Kitten? 20:20:10 Is this a self-portrait that I missed? 20:20:22 -!- nortti has joined. 20:21:01 -!- nortti has quit (Client Quit). 20:24:56 Oh! I want a self-portrait of zzo38, too. 20:25:28 shachaf: Well, I won't give you one; so you have to do it yourself 20:25:44 zzo38: monqy's been drawing self-portraits. 20:25:51 zzo38: He drew great ones of me and elliott. 20:30:19 -!- glogbackup has joined. 20:30:47 monqy: you shouldn't draw any more self-portraits of anyone else its 20:30:50 not sustainable 20:32:20 no monqy 20:32:25 elliotte is just 20:32:26 greedy 20:40:47 Writing objects: 15% (50458/324608), 12.24 MiB | 46 KiB/s 20:40:49 zzzzzzzzzz 20:42:18 haha, cloning from darcs.haskell.org? 20:42:41 nope, pushing to solidity 20:43:04 ok, wow slow anyway 20:43:26 @time olsner 20:43:26 Local time for olsner is Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 20:43:31 @time glogbackup 20:43:33 @time monqy 20:43:34 Local time for monqy is Thu May 3 13:43:34 2012 20:43:38 @time ChanServ 20:52:32 Writing objects: 40% (131637/324608), 42.63 MiB | 45 KiB/s 20:52:40 zzzzZZZZzzzzZZzZZZZZZZzzzzzz 20:57:13 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 20:58:43 monqy: travel won't use staircases you haven't gone up?? 20:58:48 ugh 21:00:24 so youtube on linux no longer lets me skip around in videos 21:01:22 > fix pure 21:01:23 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = f a 21:05:20 Phantom_Hoover: Is "cleanup" really a word? 21:05:33 Like, without a - or a space. 21:06:01 something something descriptivism 21:06:03 man 21:06:04 (yes) 21:06:13 It looks so wrong! 21:06:20 But it's in all the dictionaries and everything. 21:06:20 when cleaning up you do a cleanup 21:06:24 And I used it. :( 21:06:32 And I keep wanting to change it. 21:06:36 But I only have 3 minutes to change it. 21:18:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:21:56 The upgrade is onnnnn 21:28:00 helliott 21:32:55 Update complete! 21:32:58 And the main page's style is broken. 21:34:59 -!- itidus22 has joined. 21:35:22 As is the featured icon. 21:37:08 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:38:49 It is? 21:41:54 Try force-reloading. 21:42:05 Screenshots would be nice if they really aren't messed up for you. 21:42:21 It's broken in both Safari and Firefox for me. 21:44:54 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:49:03 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal#MediaWiki_1.19_upgrade_and_DNS_change 21:49:24 -!- Deewiant has joined. 21:50:20 Sgeo: So does it actually look fine for you? 21:54:38 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:55:33 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:00:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7). 22:00:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:02:05 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:06:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:29 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:33 font size 1.6, line height 1.2, margin bottom .1 22:32:04 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 22:33:09 monqy: did you make a self-self-portrait 22:33:12 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:35:03 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:36:04 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:36:38 no i was asleep 22:38:19 In Haskell, what does map mean or do? Just wondering, I know it's a very general question and there's probably a lot of things that it does but like generally what is it used for? 22:38:56 elliott: "map" is the secret ingredient that makes Google Maps so good. 22:38:57 Curse whoever you're quoting! 22:39:20 @time monqy 22:39:21 Local time for monqy is Thu May 3 15:39:20 2012 22:39:26 monqy: your sleep schedule "not gr8" 22:39:42 hi monqy 22:39:50 :( 22:39:53 busy dreamging up my self portraite????? 22:39:56 monqy: it's ok mine is worse 22:40:41 elliott: Does that mean your self-portrait will be "even better"? 22:42:23 -!- augur has joined. 22:42:36 Did you make a self-self-self-self-portrait? 22:43:27 not yet 22:43:45 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:44:17 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:44:19 the pressure is one 22:44:30 the pressure is two (its rising) 22:46:24 monqy: i upgraded mediawiki while you were asleep 22:46:27 you're welcome 22:46:51 thanks 22:46:55 what's upgrade 22:46:56 you're welcome 22:47:01 it's like downgrade 22:47:02 but up 22:47:05 hth 22:48:48 I once made up a program which implements a grid-based puzzle game engine where you can specify the rules, where each rule consists of: a direction flag, a symmetry flag, an optional input counter, an optional output counter, the initial state, the final state, the game end flag, the input pattern, and the output pattern. 22:49:09 thanks 22:50:12 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:50:47 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:51:42 shachaf: if Google Maps used Haskell then they would know the name of the city where I live 22:52:02 Each pattern is 3x3, and can specify the color, character, both, or neither. In addition, the color and/or character can be "mark". There are seven colors, and the characters are the 1 to 254 of the CP437 set. 22:52:15 Sokoban can be defined using this system using three rules. 22:53:08 monqy: hi 22:53:12 that's 22:53:13 a normal hi 22:53:14 (tm) 22:53:16 hello 22:54:48 hello 22:55:09 What long description should I wrote for "prelude-generalize" package? 22:55:39 ugh, MS codepages 22:55:49 zzo38: write the letter "a" twenty-seven times and then put "b" 22:55:54 you can add a "c" if you feel it necessary 22:56:32 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:56:56 -!- Deewiant has joined. 22:57:09 i would be very sceptical about any "d". ask yourself whether you truly need that "d" 22:57:34 Add a 内 for extra points 22:58:42 elliott: Why? But, OK. 22:58:52 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab 22:58:58 Or did you mean by hand? 22:59:14 I meant for your long description. Twenty-eight letters is pretty long. 22:59:16 But you can do it by hand too! 22:59:44 O, that's what you mean. But that isn't a very good description. 23:00:00 Well, you can't have everything. 23:00:02 Lumpio-: I think CP437 is IBM codepage 23:00:45 zzo38++ for CP437 23:00:47 best codepage ever 23:00:50 ook 23:01:00 The term "codepage" itself just sounds overly Microsoftey to me. 23:01:24 i mean "ugh legacy encodings" but it's old 23:03:22 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:04:07 monqy: have you ever found an octopus??? 23:04:18 in an aquarium 23:04:37 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:04:44 wow : ) 23:05:33 monqy: one problem: i don't believe aquariums are real? 23:06:11 monqy: can i comission a self portrait of kmc please 23:06:17 it's like a mission but with the arrows reversed 23:06:51 thonqy in advance 23:07:15 haha this guy just totally fucked up 23:08:39 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 23:09:36 wtf why did they do that 23:10:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:11:49 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:11:59 elliott: are you watching crawl? 23:12:05 yes 23:12:08 kmc: glasgow? 23:12:23 xgamer on CDO, i just picked at random because i saw they were on zot 23:12:57 i'll watch too 23:13:33 what? 23:14:55 unless this guy messes up really badly i'm guessing he'll win 23:15:07 monqy: before he zerked a dragon and then 23:15:17 immediately another dragon and another thing came into view 23:15:27 and as soon as he got to them the zerk ran out 23:15:37 why isn't the curse toe tormenting 23:15:40 he lost quite a bit of hp 23:15:43 what 23:15:45 oh, no i don't live in glasgow 23:15:47 why did he berserk there 23:15:51 hgheheheh 23:15:56 glasgow has the third oldest subway system in the world 23:15:59 berserker players remind me of me 23:16:08 kmc: Who has the second oldest and the first oldest? 23:16:16 stalked by a bat and a rat on zot:2 23:16:22 I guess "oldest" is redundant in those sentences. 23:16:22 budapest and london respectively 23:16:27 oh no where is he going 23:16:33 dungeon:1 23:16:38 he's done with this dungeon 23:16:43 "fuck it" - xgamer 23:16:54 * shachaf is off. 23:16:56 in new york they spent like 20 years saying "dude we need rapid transit" without building any 23:17:05 wtf 23:17:14 during this time many companies were born and died and many legislators were bribed 23:17:20 managing his stache, i see 23:18:14 the first rapid transit in New York opened 5 years after the first bit of the London Underground 23:18:24 but it was an elevated railway, and that's all they built for some time 23:19:13 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:19:32 http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beach/ 23:20:05 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:20:51 monqy: does he remember about the orb 23:20:58 he surely forgot 23:21:06 kmc: that logo 23:21:07 too much stache fun 23:21:17 monqy: more like the orb of WHAT!!! 23:21:51 it's just too deep deep down 23:21:52 I can't do it 23:21:58 the first subway part of the today New York City Subway opened in 1904 23:23:14 monqy: how is this guy not bored yet 23:23:22 no clue 23:24:35 HOLY GOD YOUR INVENTORY IS FINE 23:24:39 stop it 23:24:42 *STOP IT 23:24:46 accidentally forgot the capslock 23:25:09 but the railroad tunnel from Grand Central at 42nd St to 96th St opened in 1875 23:25:37 which today carries commuter trains, but at the time was arguably rapid transit, and had some underground stops 23:25:53 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:26:22 -!- Deewiant has joined. 23:26:37 monqy: he hasn't dropped his potion of slowing 23:26:39 i think 23:26:42 good job 23:26:56 finally 23:27:12 and there was a railroad tunnel in Brooklyn by 1844 23:27:16 but Brooklyn wasn't part of New York yet! 23:27:19 AND NOW YOU KNOW 23:27:19 explore_delay and travel_delay should default to -1 23:28:00 elliott: if you like the Beech Pneumatic logo you may also enjoy this picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Harvey_Cable_Car.jpg 23:28:13 :D 23:28:24 thank you, kmc, your extensive transport knowledge continues to entertain 23:28:42 00:28 death cob[1/5]: You may have already fielded a guess, but it's insane hostile food. It might be corny, but if you put an ear to the ground deep down in Crawl's maize, you may find that you are being stalked; being buttered up for the kill, smooth as silk. 23:28:46 monqy 23:28:50 i 23:28:52 why is he clearing zot aaagh 23:28:58 xgamer stop that 23:29:04 you could use your hi ability 23:29:05 hibility 23:29:15 new york had better transit in 1930 than today :/ 23:29:20 "hi" is monqy for "stop that" 23:29:44 he mapped zot4, maybe he'll dive it 23:29:55 monqy "denialle" 23:30:10 he's not keymashing that bone dragon fast enough 23:30:15 (written before bone dragon deaded) 23:30:42 wow i hope i play less in a less silly manner than this by the time i reach zot 23:30:51 me too 23:31:21 you won 17 times without reaching zot? 23:31:27 did you use scrolls of acquirement to get the orb? 23:31:34 no i hope you play in a less silly manner by the time you reach zot 23:31:36 "i'm gonna go for miscellaneous" "j - the Orb of Zot" "yessssss" 23:31:49 monqy: i prefer my version? 23:32:07 it's a good version 23:32:20 Have you used METAFONT for designing any logos or typefaces? 23:33:17 monqy: why are there death cobs 23:33:35 because 23:33:39 why not ? 23:33:59 deep 23:34:15 i 23:34:22 why did he pick those up 23:34:28 how should i know 23:34:29 what is he DOING 23:34:35 monqy: i didn't ask you!!! 23:34:37 i asked hypothetical 23:34:43 eat in front of the yellow drac yes 23:34:46 eat stealthily 23:35:16 monqy: you know when you crave something SO BAD and you just gotta eat even if you're dying 23:35:18 that happened to xgamer 23:35:35 he's not quite dying yet 23:35:42 hi 23:35:51 monqy: you're always dying when fighting 23:35:53 just very slow 23:35:55 *slowly 23:35:57 *just, 23:36:15 monqy: oh yeah is it true that travel won't use upstairs you haven't used 23:36:22 i guess it makes sense but 23:36:28 going up every upstairs will be so boring 23:36:36 oh i think he might start dying soon 23:36:42 wheee 23:36:52 aww 23:37:08 before i put all my buttons on one button i "stair dipped" 23:37:46 what's that 23:38:05 when you see an unused staircase you go down it then back up 23:38:51 monqy: that's so ugh though :( 23:38:55 i mean i'd just 23:38:58 go up upstairs when i found them instead but 23:39:00 that's still a pain 23:39:15 oh, this will be fun 23:39:24 he's not dying quite yet 23:39:43 i never said that!!! 23:39:45 i said it would be fun 23:39:47 ok 23:39:55 dying is one of but many ways to have fun 23:39:55 this guy plays slow :( 23:39:58 *is but one 23:40:05 monqy: everyone plays slower than you 23:40:17 i'd probably play lower than this on zot (but maybe not when i get to the point of reaching zot) 23:40:20 *slower 23:40:22 uugh typing is hard 23:40:32 cashybrid is faster than me!! 23:40:37 probably Elynae is faster than me too 23:40:44 hey, this tv has "Vrestler" 23:40:51 so titles (if that's what they're called) are translated??? 23:40:54 mystrious 23:40:54 yeah 23:41:02 monqy: isn't cashybrid half bot 23:41:05 yeah 23:41:08 isn't Elynae half bot 23:41:20 that would explain things 23:41:35 two orb guardians for the price of one 23:42:57 rip 23:43:08 monqy: he's dying now right 23:43:17 yes 23:43:25 qyite possibly 23:43:43 it's also quite possibly he's not dying 23:43:44 lol 23:43:59 why 23:44:00 is he walking around 23:44:02 slow and exhausted 23:44:04 and low on hp 23:44:23 because resting in hall of zot is more dangerous than fleeing from it slowed 23:44:32 if you've cleared the rest of the lvel 23:44:49 oh is that where he is 23:44:51 i didn't 23:44:54 "recognise the feature" 23:45:16 i thought that troll was hostile for a second 23:45:22 disappointed it wasn't 23:45:29 like 23:45:32 ooh i wonder what he'll do here 23:45:37 troll just appears from nowhere on zot:5 23:45:38 oh boy 23:45:42 lol 23:45:48 great berserk this 23:45:50 mmmm death drakes 23:46:01 ahahaha 23:46:14 i hope he rteles 23:46:14 oh man 23:46:16 he's rteleing 23:46:17 why doesn't he have any curing 23:46:29 he's just not using it 23:46:30 "Fast+Slow" 23:46:36 what's rtele :( 23:46:39 random teleport 23:46:45 oh 23:47:04 does scroll of teleport do that since it's -cTele 23:47:07 *teleportation 23:47:10 oh he's dead 23:47:12 rip 23:47:14 scroll of tele is by default random 23:47:19 oh right 23:47:20 not dead yet 23:47:24 ok dying 23:47:27 also 23:47:28 but yeah -ctele means no ctele 23:47:29 near starving for some reason 23:47:38 Fast+Slow is what happens when you're hasted and slowed at the same time (it has no effect itself but blocks further hasting and slowing) 23:47:46 moth of wrath 23:47:48 that's the best moth 23:48:18 it used to be that fast and slow just canceled each other but then you could do stuff like re-slow or re-haste 23:48:25 is that really so bad 23:48:34 -!- cswords__ has joined. 23:48:43 oh no where's he going now 23:48:48 o hno is it 23:48:50 time for more 23:48:52 *oh no 23:48:54 stashing 23:49:00 or did he get the orb 23:49:09 if he got the orb he'd have a glowy purp halo 23:49:13 nope it's stash time 23:49:17 this guy is 23:49:23 all about the stashes 23:49:30 also why is his stash on lair:2 that's kinda weird 23:49:37 does he notice you sent him a message mysteries of life 23:49:41 lair:2 is a popular stash location 23:49:51 because monsters that use items don't spawn on lair:2 23:49:59 oh don't they? that's clever 23:49:59 lair:1 gets stair spawns from the dungeon 23:50:12 couldn't they walk down to lair:2 too 23:50:15 no 23:50:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:50:18 i think people have gotten jellies from dungeon on lair:1 23:50:21 hmm, why not 23:50:23 "goodbye, stash" 23:50:32 they spawn on the branch exit stairs 23:50:40 and monsters don't do interlevel travel by themselves 23:50:41 * ion is tempted to plawl, but there’s a bunch of lectures to be watched and a bunch of homework to be done. 23:50:52 ion: why plawl when you can wlawl 23:50:54 monqy: ugh that 23:50:55 hit _ 23:50:56 in the corner 23:50:58 is bugging me 23:51:01 send him something else so he notices 23:51:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:51:23 lots of people don't notice the Hit _ and it's so annoying 23:51:37 you ahve to do something!!! 23:51:38 *have 23:51:44 it should flash 23:51:49 yes 23:51:53 -!- cswords_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:51:55 please send hi msomething oh god what if he 23:51:56 i've bugged the devs about it before 23:51:58 wins with a hit _ 23:52:01 that would 23:52:02 ruin the win 23:52:05 * ion would wawl but you’re not plawl. 23:52:11 ion: it's xgamer we're watching 23:52:16 (Hit _) makes deaths instantly hilarious 23:52:16 ok 23:52:22 monqy: PLEASE DO SOMETHING!!!! :'( 23:52:32 Do we know xgamer? 23:52:33 ion: ok you send him a message as soon as he stops fighting 23:52:35 no we don't 23:52:37 i dunno if sending another message redisplays the hit _ message 23:52:39 i just noticed him since he was on zot 23:52:44 monqy: it doesn't but it displays it in the 23:52:46 message scroller thing 23:52:51 i think 23:53:02 did he really just tweak skills on zot 23:53:32 hhhhhhhhhh 23:53:40 SOMEONE DO SOMETHING this is a humanitarian crisis 23:53:41 i've bugged devs about having blinking (Hit _) or at least more noticeably colored (Hit _) or a force_more by default on the beep! your pager goes off but nobody listened 23:53:50 monqy: maybe i'll send them a patch 23:53:54 i sent another message and it didn't do anything 23:54:09 this is tormenting me every single second i can't enjoy the game like this 23:54:15 elliott: you can try bugging him; he's in ##crawl 23:54:17 Yeah, the (Hit _) should be more noticeable. 23:54:21 monqy: or maybe you could!! 23:54:34 monqy: i mean blinking is 23:54:34 I've grown to like the (Hit _) 23:54:37 really annoying though 23:54:41 This level looks a lot like a Zot Defense level. 23:54:44 so maybe they'll hit _!!!! 23:54:46 the force_more thing might be better 23:54:57 monqy: or maybe they'll get a headache 23:55:05 actually what it should do is 23:55:07 instead of force_more 23:55:08 it should be 23:55:10 when i said blinking i meant 23:55:10 force_press_underscore 23:55:12 elemental coloured 23:55:12 I’d hate it if everyone could keep force_moreing me on a whim. :-P 23:55:20 monqy: by blinking i meant 23:55:21 but elemental colour is a technical term you might not know 23:55:25 blinking 23:55:26 as in 23:55:27 the terminal attribute 23:55:29 oh 23:55:36 what's elemental colour 23:55:46 My terminal doesn’t support blinking text AFAIU. 23:55:53 it probably does 23:56:01 monqy: you sent the messages you bug him in ##crawl >:( 23:56:01 it's a "colour" that's really a bunch of colours that change when crawl refreshes 23:56:09 right, that would be better 23:56:27 elliott: you send some messages and then bug him in ##crawl if it bothers you so much! 23:56:39 monqy: you know it bothers you too!!! 23:56:41 imagine if he wins like this 23:56:43 you'll be agonised 23:56:46 :( 23:57:11 no i'll like it 23:57:12 ok done 23:57:15 let's just hope he 23:57:16 checks IRC 23:57:24 best part is when he starts a new game and then gets the messages there 23:57:27 preferably after dying horribly 23:57:44 why isn't he checking ##crawl nooooo 23:59:01 monqy: what did you send partially end my agony 23:59:10 hi, twice 23:59:22 at different points 23:59:23 good choice 23:59:33 maybe i'll send it again if this goes south 23:59:37 ooh, frail! 23:59:43 what's frail