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00:38:36 <zzo38> Some people say that sports prediction from horoscope works better than personal prediction from horoscope. What is your opinion on these matters?
00:39:48 <zzo38> ion: True, but too simple.
00:40:14 <zzo38> I am skeptical but can think of two possible reasons which can allow it to work sometimes.
00:40:27 <zzo38> (I am not counting such things as fluke)
00:42:07 <ion> Some people say that sports prediction from the variation of latency in pinging google.com works better than personal prediction from that.
00:43:49 <zzo38> The two reasons I am think of: (1) psychological effect (such as superstitious people's belief in such things), and (2) lighting conditions (considering house positions on horoscopes).
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00:45:29 <zzo38> Now what will you answer to this? (Simply saying it is good or it is bad, is not the good answer; you must critical thinking too)
00:52:27 <ais523> zzo38: I think the position of the Sun might potentially matter, but the positions of other heavenly bodies are unlikely to be even visible during the game
00:52:56 <zzo38> ais523: True. About lighting conditions, yes it is the Sun which I was refering to.
00:53:37 <ais523> and directly looking at the time and date would be more direct than going via horoscope
00:54:21 <zzo38> ais523: Sunrise/sunset and so on change for different days and different locations, there are also timezones which are not always same as solar time, and then there is daylight saving time, etc
00:54:34 <ais523> I meant true local time
00:54:37 <ais523> not local time from timezone
00:55:08 <ais523> timezones are only approximations intended to standardise time across a country, so that people a long way from each other can communicate about time
00:55:14 <ais523> they came about when railways became popular
00:55:26 <ais523> before then, long-distance communication and travel wasn't fast enough for the time differences to matter
00:55:30 <ais523> but everyone needed to agree on train times
00:56:13 <zzo38> OK, I didn't know that but yes it seem good
00:56:25 <ion> To predict anything about a game based on the position of the Sun, you’ll certainly need the angle of the playfield relative to the Sun as input as well.
00:59:35 <ais523> ion: aren't playfields usually flat?
00:59:42 <ais523> but you'd need to know latitude and longitude and altitude
00:59:50 <ais523> to calculate the angle
01:05:17 <ion> The sun will potentially shine more in the eyes of one team than the other, or perhaps illuminate both equally from the side.
01:05:18 <zzo38> It may help also to know rules of the game.
01:05:31 <zzo38> ion: Yes those are my thoughts too.
01:05:51 <ion> So you can’t make predictions just based on “horoscopes” that don’t take stuff like that into account.
01:06:59 <zzo38> A horoscope chart will include the houses, showing you the ascendant and midheaven and so on. You need to know the location and the date/time to calculate house positions.
01:07:14 <cheater__> lol @ linus https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674
01:07:32 <zzo38> Of course you need to take things into account; a raw horoscope chart will simply tell you the positions and aspects.
01:11:34 <zzo38> So that is lighting conditions; the Mars and other planets are extremely unlikely to affect such things. But, psychological effect of people believing in superstitious things based on these planets may effect decisions of some superstitious players.
01:16:37 <zzo38> Another thing which can potentially affect lighting conditions is a solar eclipse. There are three objects on the horoscope related to eclipses: the Sun, the Moon, and the North Node. I have heard the story of a king who was frightened to death by a solar eclipse. This is unlikely to happen today, but eclipses can still happen.
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01:54:34 <cheater__> give me all your money, this is a stick-up
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02:45:05 <Sgeo> Is Phantom_Hoover alive?
02:53:20 <cheater__> Sgeo: are you able to see the video on this site? http://www.intuit.ru/department/mathematics/imathanalysis/14/
02:57:00 <Sgeo> cheater__, what video
02:57:30 <cheater__> there should be a video there, do you see one?
02:57:38 <Sgeo> Ugh, do I have to unblock flash sitewide for this
02:59:19 <cheater__> this one works right? http://www.intuit.ru/department/mathematics/angeom/1/
03:19:55 <Sgeo> However, it should be noted that I do not speak Russian.
04:11:46 <pikhq_> Not even Russians speak Russian.
04:12:00 <pikhq_> Russian is actually Newspeak.
04:43:24 <cheater__> definitely this week's higlight: i flame a n00b and he comes back and says he's sorry.
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05:09:44 <pikhq> Idea. "All Sliver creatures have Soulbond and 'As long as this creature is paired with another creature, all slivers have the abilities of each of those creatures.' and 'As long as this creature is paired with another creature, each of those creatures is a sliver in addition to its other types.'"
05:09:49 <pikhq> I call it "Assimilating Sliver"
05:10:43 <pikhq> Also, "Creature - Eldrazi Sliver" :)
05:11:22 <pikhq> Well, it'd happen if you played Assimilating Sliver.
05:13:53 <Madoka-Kaname> Anything that results in "All Slivers gain Annihilator anything" is "no"
05:14:03 <ais523> Mistform Ultimus has been screwing up trivia questions for years
05:14:15 <ais523> (as well as the keyword version of its ability that turned up all over the place in Lorwyn)
05:15:38 <pikhq> Madoka-Kaname: What, and Mirrorweave isn't?
05:20:15 <pikhq> Sgeo: Mechanic in Avacyn Restored.
05:31:10 <ais523> pikhq: oh, that's out already?
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05:31:15 <ais523> not really following Magic nowadays
05:31:47 <ais523> heh, today's daily mtg article is about soulbond's history
05:37:55 <pikhq> ais523: Avacyn Restored was actually a rather good set; might be worth caring about.
05:39:01 <pikhq> And I am going to be upset if they screw up Return to Ravnica...
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05:44:17 <ais523> doing Ravnica again? must be running out of ideas :)
05:44:32 <ais523> I did enjoy Ravnica, although Time Spiral is still my favourite block
05:45:22 <pikhq> Either it'll suck or it'll be awesome. I don't see it going in between.
05:45:40 <pikhq> And, yeah, Time Spiral was glorious.
05:53:50 <ais523> apparently it was unpopular sales-wise, though
05:53:55 <ais523> compared to the sets around it
05:54:54 <oklopol> i had a dream that satan worshippers and some sort of vampire enthusiasts were holding a joint meeting, and the vampire dudes were reading stories from their vampire bible (presumably written by charlaine harris)
05:56:51 <zzo38> I like the puzzle games for Magic: the Gathering, and figuring out reactions between existing and possible card texts, and playing in Limited tournaments
05:58:13 <oklopol> for some reason, the vampire dudes had a crusifix from which they drank blood (and occasionally it was wine) and another crusifix that played scary music.
06:00:23 <pikhq> ais523: Well, it did come between Ravnica and Lorwyn.
06:00:37 <ais523> pikhq: Lorwyn's the reason I stopped playing Magic
06:00:43 <pikhq> And, unfortunately, as a nostalgia set it would have somewhat less general appeal.
06:00:53 <ais523> and I had nothing to be nostalgic about, I started with Ninth Edition
06:01:14 <pikhq> Still, Time Spiral was a delightful set, design-wise.
06:01:17 <ais523> I just liked it mechanically
06:03:23 <pikhq> Also, why did *Lorwyn* make you stop playing Magic?
06:03:36 <ais523> didn't like the flavour, didn't like the mechanics, didn't like the focus on creatures
06:03:49 <pikhq> So... Not a big tribal fan?
06:04:04 <ais523> I like Slivers, but I don't like tribal for the sake of tribal
06:04:55 <pikhq> Surprised it wasn't Shards that did it. (seriously, *six fucking years* of multicolor in Standard?)
06:05:06 <ais523> shards just persuaded me not to come back :)
06:09:07 <ais523> I think the focus on creatures recently has turned me off Magic somewhat
06:11:50 <pikhq> Ah, you're one of those people that does things like break Tamiyo. :P http://magiccards.info/avr/en/79.html
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06:12:31 <ais523> oh, I was wrong, it was /planeswalkers/ that turned me off Magic
06:12:35 <ais523> forgot those existed, bleh
06:13:10 <ais523> only reason I wasn't raging during Future Sight was that I assumed that Tarmogoyf's flavour text was a joke
06:13:14 <ais523> (which it could have been, quite easily)
06:14:08 <ais523> huh, Avacyn Restored is a large? I assumed it was a small set
06:14:10 <pikhq> If it makes you feel better, most planeswalkers are little more than a Lightning Bolt sink.
06:14:18 <pikhq> Yeah, it was a weird block-ending large set.
06:15:06 <ais523> and planeswalkers being a lightning bolt sink ties into why I don't like creatures so much
06:15:27 <ais523> I don't mind simple creatures, but I prefer the creatures to sit there on the battlefield and do, at most, combat tricks
06:16:04 <ais523> while the players maneouver around them with their instants and sorceries and enchantments trying to give one side the advantage over the other, either by gaining combat advantage with creatures, or directly
06:16:54 <pikhq> And they've been making creatures do more largely in hopes of making tournament decks actually run creatures.
06:17:13 <pikhq> Kinda-sorta worked.
06:17:32 <pikhq> Though the recent Pro Tour winning deck only ran any creatures in sideboard.
06:17:47 <pikhq> Just a giant pile of miracle spells and cantrips.
06:18:18 <ais523> purpose of creatures is to stop you dying to red
06:18:48 <Sgeo> UPDATE, UPDATE, give me your answer do
06:19:21 <ais523> or even white or green, arguably, but the strategy's most commonly seen in red
06:19:40 <ais523> (that of just putting down lots of cheap creatures early and overrunning the opponent before they can set up whatever they were going to do)
06:19:57 <pikhq> Planeswalkers end up having very different feel to me in formats where Doubling Season is legal.
06:20:22 <pikhq> Tamiyo now reads "3{U}{U}: You get an emblem with "You have no maximum hand size" and "Whenever a card is put into your graveyard from anywhere, you may return it to your hand.""
06:20:36 <Sgeo> pikhq, do you play MtG online, and if so, where and how?
06:20:45 <pikhq> Sgeo: I play MtG IRL.
06:21:34 <ais523> to play it online "officially", you have to pay as much money as it'd cost to get the cards otherwise
06:21:40 <ais523> pikhq: *two emblems :)
06:21:49 <ais523> (I know it doesn't work on emblems, but it /should/)
06:21:56 <Sgeo> ais523, and thus, no desire on my part to play MtGO
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06:22:12 <Sgeo> Do people like Cockatrice?
06:22:18 <ais523> the physical cards are actually worth something for the art design, IMO, apart from the game (although not as much as they cost)
06:22:36 <zzo38> I happen to dislike many of the rules in Magic: the Gathering
06:22:55 <zzo38> I also prefer Limited format games over Constructed
06:25:40 <zzo38> I don't think they need emblems, tribals, state-based effects causing tokens to cease to exist, rule that a land card cannot be played as its other types, etc. There are better ways to write the rules to avoid these things.
06:26:19 <ion> “A lot of people still confuse Austria and Australia, I hope this makes it clear.” https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OE9rTUfHE8k/T6_yazqUw0I/AAAAAAAAA8I/jvMOuw0z_tA/w497-h373/Jda6h.jpg
06:35:44 <zzo38> We can make up the new game, based on Magic: the Gathering but with differences, including that you do not have to purchase the cards (you can also print them out or write them out, or play by computer; you don't have to pay). As well as making the standard game Limited instead of Constructed.
06:41:26 <Sgeo> Well, there's a reason for the whole purchasing the cards thing: So WotC makes money
06:59:00 <zzo38> Yes, I understand. But, we make up new game it is differ, not using the old cards therefore not using old compatibility rules either. Someone can sell cards if they want to but is not required to play game. Or you can write puzzle-game too. But rules are many differences nevertheless.
07:17:17 <pikhq> zzo38: Of the tournament formats, Limited is quite a lot better IMO.
07:17:42 <pikhq> It's both more fun and a much better test of skill than Constructed.
07:18:09 <pikhq> Not to mention it completely avoids rich-kid syndrome.
07:18:38 <pikhq> Which is by far the worst part of Magic.
07:18:45 <ais523> I actually prefer Constructed, especially when I'm beating the world's best decks with ones that I can afford
07:19:09 <ais523> sometimes with flukes, but it's still amusing
07:19:49 <pikhq> I tend to do vintage casual constructed (okay, so most of my decks are modern too, because I'm cheap. :P)
07:20:25 <pikhq> Really, Magic is at its best in casual play...
07:22:25 <pikhq> Friggin' rarity-directly-mapping-to-usefulness.
07:23:23 <pikhq> It might be good business, but it also warps the game into a contest of money.
07:30:04 <zzo38> pikhq: And that kind of contest about money is one things I dislike about it. And your thing you describe also why Limited is better I agree that Limited is better in that (and other) way.
07:44:47 <ais523> pikhq: rarity mapping to usefulness is partly to accommodate Limited by making drafting first-picks more important
07:45:09 <ais523> but it might be more interesting the other way, where cards only useful in Constructed are placed at rare to avoid them impinging on Limited too much
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07:47:33 <zzo38> ais523: I agree with you on that; I do think that setting the rarity of cards in that way might improve the game (it could be partially tried to see what happen, I suppose).
07:48:25 <ais523> the problem with the rarities at the moment is mythic, really
07:49:07 <ais523> they're trying to make exciting cards powerful, but also tend to put exciting cards at mythic (so that getting them is /more/ exciting, and to make booster packs more valuable because people will have to open more of them to get single cards that they can sell on to people who want them)
07:50:11 <zzo38> Yes these are the many problems with the game, relating to the cards. There are problems with the rules too, but there are also problems with the cards like you are describing.
07:51:45 <pikhq> ais523: Agreed, strongly. Also, I feel like rarity should be more a function of how general a card is. Something like Birds of Paradise should be common, not rare.
07:52:03 <ais523> pikhq: currently specific cards are consistently placed at uncommon
07:52:24 <ais523> which sort-of makes sense for limited, because a specific card can be drafted around
07:52:41 <ais523> especially if it's specific and also one of the set's main mechanics
07:52:49 <pikhq> Yeah... General is common or rare, specific is uncommon, and anything "big" is rare, and anything awesome is mythic rare.
07:53:40 <pikhq> Cavern of Souls should not be rare.
07:53:48 <pikhq> http://magiccards.info/avr/en/226.html BTW
07:53:54 <ais523> what about One with Nothing? people hated that being rare
07:54:01 <ais523> I guess if all rares were like that it wouldn't matter
07:54:23 <pikhq> If it's a card that nearly every deck wants, it shouldn't be friggin' rare.
07:58:12 <ais523> common or uncommon, in your opinion?
07:58:25 <ais523> arguably it's narrow, but it's so customizably narrow it fits into most decks
07:58:46 <ais523> (which is apparently deliberate; apparently, they needed to nerf Mana Leak due to a mistake in balancing Snapcaster Mage)
07:58:49 <pikhq> One with Nothing, depends on what the rest of the set's doing.
07:59:04 <pikhq> Cavern of Souls? Common.
07:59:05 <zzo38> Well, if you manage to get One with Nothing in your deck for some reason such as drafting and so on, then, if it is in your hand, and then it is useful to you then please play this card.
08:00:09 <pikhq> It's something you'll be happy to play in any deck that happens to weigh towards a single creature type.
08:00:26 <pikhq> Which even in the absence of specific tribal effects, is reasonably common.
08:00:31 <ais523> I guess another example is dual land, which should be common (but putting it at rare is obviously better for revenue)
08:00:51 <pikhq> Dual lands are really good examples of this.
08:01:19 <pikhq> If I am playing with two colors, I want duals out the wazoo. I want to pretend duals are basic lands.
08:02:13 <pikhq> $100 *mana bases* are a fucking joke.
08:02:29 <ais523> my best deck is five-color combo
08:02:37 <ais523> and it basically contains all the dual lands I own
08:02:55 <pikhq> That *in specific* presents a gigantic barrier to entry for tournaments.
08:02:57 <ais523> (I move them between decks when I need them, obviously, rather than having separate lands for separate decks)
08:04:07 <pikhq> It's plausible that by doing this WotC could make *more* money, actually...
08:04:16 <pikhq> By having more people play and more people play in tournaments.
08:04:47 <pikhq> I have a sneaking suspicion the rarity issues end up driving people off the game.
08:05:09 <zzo38> Make Limited the standard game.
08:06:28 <ais523> limited is even worse, then you have to buy booster packs every game you play
08:07:33 <pikhq> And mythics only make it worse, really: I can't realistically play planeswalkers without either paying through the nose for a playset or buying *several boxes*? That's just shitty.
08:09:20 <zzo38> ais523: But Limited is a better game anyways. Perhaps if you can put the cards back in the shuffle and make up random packs at the tournament, do not need to purchase (and print!) new cards every time.
08:09:47 <ais523> even when not worrying about the cost, I prefer Constructed, but perhaps that's more to do with the sort of games I like
08:10:59 <zzo38> I prefer Limited regardless of cost, but you play how you prefer.
08:11:11 <pikhq> ais523: My preference for limited is almost exclusively due to balance.
08:12:39 <pikhq> The game's balanced around either limited or assuming everyone has $500 a block to blow.
08:13:50 <pikhq> Or, well, assuming everyone involved is on an equal financial footing, really.
08:14:06 <pikhq> Black Lotus is balanced if everybody's got one. :P
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08:17:50 <ais523> pikhq: I'm not convinced; budget decks can often get quite close to the best non-budget decks
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08:19:54 <pikhq> ais523: http://magiccards.info/mbs/en/99.html Deal with that in pauper why don't you. (okay, fine, you need a vintage card pool to make that even slightly feasible to pull out.)
08:20:54 <ais523> oblivion ring (is that common?)?
08:21:10 <pikhq> Oblivion ring got bumped to uncommon. Because... ?
08:21:22 <pikhq> Got a friend who can, with a god hand, drop that sucker turn 2.
08:21:24 <ais523> it was common once, though
08:22:21 <ais523> actually, I think white has quite a few exilers at common
08:22:38 <pikhq> Tinker, BTW, is obscenity.
08:22:40 <ais523> admittedly, you're probably going to be needing to play blue or white to deal with it at common, though
08:23:17 <ais523> because of the trample and indestructibility, missing either would give loads of ours
08:24:33 <pikhq> Also, sol ring + island + tinker = turn 2 Blightsteel.
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08:25:26 <ais523> tinker's banned in just about every format
08:25:34 <pikhq> (there is a reason sol ring and tinker are restricted, though)
08:25:46 <ais523> and a reason force of will is all over the place in formats where they're allowed
08:26:24 <ais523> losing three cards is less bad than losing the game
08:27:20 <pikhq> (I assume you didn't mean force of will?)
08:27:33 <ais523> might have got the wrong name
08:27:37 <ais523> counterspell costing pitch two
08:27:48 <pikhq> Guess it's similar at least.
08:28:03 <pikhq> Force of Will is counterspell costing 1 life and exile 1 blue card.
08:28:14 <ais523> oh, got the right name, wrong effect
08:28:19 <ais523> pitch 1 and 1 life is obviously better
08:28:30 <ais523> and so would obviously be used instead
08:28:34 <ais523> I can believe it's $50
08:28:41 <pikhq> For "heavily played" no less.
08:29:19 <pikhq> Also, recommending counterspells as a solution doesn't help with someone who also thinks counterspells are overpowered. :P
08:30:39 <ais523> it's natural that overpowered things would be necessary to deal with other overpowered things :)
08:30:47 <ais523> arguably, it's card draw that's overpowered rather than counterspells
08:30:54 <ais523> counterspells don't really work without a draw engine backing them up
08:31:30 <pikhq> I also happen to think that forms of draw effects should be in all colors...
08:32:12 <ais523> rather than just red and blue? (and red isn't allowed to get card advantage from it unless its hand is empty)
08:32:26 <pikhq> Obviously, not doable without basically rebalancing every single part of the game though. (elves with *card draw*? Holy fuck.)
08:32:45 <Sgeo> I am having a nostalgia trip right now
08:32:55 <Sgeo> Found a "Sgeo was here" sign I posted in AW in 2002
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08:36:58 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, when I have time, I can play Worms
08:37:05 <Sgeo> And I can host and I have access to Full Wormage
08:37:25 <Phantom_Hoover> I have a chemistry exam this afternoon so I'm not playing games before then.
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09:13:00 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, I'm not signed in to Steam
09:13:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, I guess each of those items would require, on average, an investment of 200 to get, so it's not all that surprising.
09:13:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, it's a chart of hats with particle effects in TF2.
09:15:31 <Phantom_Hoover> It's not even all that uncommon to see people in matches wearing them; I guess the world is just full of Gregors.
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09:30:36 <Taneb> I only have three hats in my "I like wearing these from time to time" collection
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09:35:14 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: No, no, no, Gregor wears hats IRL.
09:35:28 <pikhq> The world would be a much classier place if the world was full of Gregors.
09:35:46 <pikhq> Also much more vibrant: I swear, his color choices glow.
09:35:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Also no, on account of being classy != pretending to be classy.
09:36:52 <pikhq> Y'mean hats aren't the source of class?
09:43:41 <pikhq> Reddit lied to me!
09:51:55 <ais523> `addquote <pikhq> The world would be a much classier place if the world was full of Gregors. <Phantom_Hoover> True, but how many of them are on fire?
09:52:08 <HackEgo> 855) <pikhq> The world would be a much classier place if the world was full of Gregors. <Phantom_Hoover> True, but how many of them are on fire?
09:52:27 <HackEgo> 150) <cpressey> Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb).
09:52:32 <HackEgo> 131) <ais523> reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays <ais523> after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you /pay/ for it
09:52:46 <HackEgo> 5) <Warrigal> GKennethR: he should be told that you should always ask someone before killing them.
09:52:49 <HackEgo> 168) <Phantom_Hoover> Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM.
09:52:50 <HackEgo> 428) <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, little do you realise that everything you say and do is part of that great monad tutorial we call life.
09:53:12 <ais523> I don't get 150 or 168, although 168 is less funny if you don't get it
09:53:41 <Taneb> 168 I'd say is the worst
09:53:49 <Taneb> I think 150 is funny due to its absurdity
09:53:58 <HackEgo> *poof* <Phantom_Hoover> Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM.
09:54:00 <ais523> we're in agreement, I think
09:54:10 <ais523> and elliott isn't here so he can't tell us why we're wrong
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11:44:35 <kmc> hi cheater__
11:44:39 <kmc> how's tricks
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11:52:42 <ais523> hmm, it's weird having an argument with someone on reddit where there are a bunch of people upvoting all your comments and downvoting all the comments of the person you're arguing with
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11:53:00 <ais523> strange having internet arguments and being proved right that quickly
11:55:57 <kmc> what kind of fish
11:59:18 <cheater__> it was on promotion (is that what you say?)
12:01:06 <cheater__> atlantic grain salt with a grinder, lime juice (again), lemon peppa, galgant, and a nice 3 pepper mix
12:01:43 <cheater__> i did salt on all, then tried lemon peppa several times with and without galgant, and then tried the pepper.
12:02:00 <cheater__> i expected it to be more.. lemony.
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12:02:21 <kmc> huh, didn't know that's a thing
12:02:22 <cheater__> which is fun because it smells so nice
12:02:48 <kmc> orange-flavour olive oil
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12:02:58 <cheater__> oh yeah you get lots of different flavours
12:03:12 <cheater__> lemon or vanilla ice cream with lemon olive oil
12:03:19 <kmc> galgant is like ginger right?
12:03:37 <kmc> i think it's called galangal in english
12:04:31 <cheater__> have you ever had any fresh galangal?
12:05:05 <cheater__> you take this tiny piece, like 0.5 cm on the side
12:05:38 <cheater__> and it's like, super-concentrated ginger
12:05:48 <cheater__> you like spicy stuff you gotta try it
12:06:18 <cheater__> also it may only have been the one i've had but the taste was much more bitter
12:06:23 <kmc> there's an indian grocery down the street
12:06:25 <kmc> they might have it
12:07:02 <kmc> i guess it's from southeast asia
12:07:07 <kmc> i should find a thai grocery, that would be baller
12:07:11 <cheater__> do they speak rike rear indian immiglants
12:07:14 <kmc> "Polish vodka Zoladkowa Gorzka is flavoured with galanga."
12:07:41 <cheater__> that vodka is actually the secret tip
12:07:45 <kmc> "The secret recipe includes, among others: wormwood, gentian root, pepper, and galangal."
12:07:52 <kmc> this sounds like it would taste like satan's own asshole
12:08:06 <cheater__> it's not too expensive but it kicks well and doesn't taste of potatos or any other cheap vodka taste
12:08:31 <cheater__> i have a tip for you for a drink that you'll love
12:08:37 <cheater__> you will love it cause it has tobasco on it
12:09:14 <cheater__> you need vodka, tabasco, and raspberry sirup (the kind you make soft drinks out of, not the one for topping ice cream)
12:09:38 <cheater__> you take a small shot glass, fill it 1/3 with the sirup
12:09:53 <cheater__> then you fill the rest with vodka slowly so as not to disturb the sirup
12:10:08 <cheater__> once that's in you add a drop of tobasco, it hovers nicely in a sphere above the sirup
12:10:21 <cheater__> and is said to be really good for parties
12:10:47 <cheater__> i served it on several birthdays and people loved it
12:11:28 <cheater__> possibly with "Polish vodka Zoladkowa Gorzka"
12:11:40 <cheater__> oh in case you're wondering what the name means
12:11:50 <cheater__> it translates to "stomach vodka, bitter"
12:12:14 <cheater__> i think they make it by fermenting goat stomachs or something.
12:14:11 <cheater__> Greater galangal is native to Java. It is widely used in Indonesia and Malaysia as a food flavouring and spice. Lesser galangal is native to China, growing mainly on the southeast coast. It is also grown in India and the rest of South East Asia. Although barely used in Europe today, both galangals were formerly imported in great quantity, as medicine and spice.
12:14:49 <cheater__> there are people who snuff galangal
12:14:51 <kmc> i brewed ginger beer a few times
12:14:55 <kmc> i wonder if you could make galangal beer
12:15:07 <cheater__> after all it's not like real beer is it
12:15:14 <kmc> not really
12:15:38 <cheater__> so kmc my next project might be with the yii php web framework
12:16:15 <kmc> you just like make a strong ginger tea, put sugar and yeast in, and let it sit a couple of days
12:16:40 <cheater__> actually sounds like disgusting shit
12:16:42 <kmc> it will produce a bit of alcohol but it gets un-tasty before it hits typical beer abv
12:16:55 <cheater__> i could never drink alcohol, it really dejects me
12:17:13 <kmc> why yii php
12:20:40 <cheater__> not everyone has hit it big with ksplorifice like you have kmc
12:22:52 <kmc> what kind of nuggets
12:23:51 <cheater__> but i was thinking of chicken nuggets, yes.
12:28:29 <cheater__> so apparently the galangal i have had was Greater Galangal
12:29:05 <cheater__> indians apparently only have lesser galangal, which is red
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12:35:42 <cheater__> man, american accents are so annoying in movies sometimes
12:35:59 <cheater__> always dub a british english version
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13:51:18 <ion> Tried Portal 2 in coop mode with a friend. It’s fun.
13:52:00 <kmc> network or split-screen?
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14:00:56 <ion> Over the Internet.
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14:15:13 <Gregor> <ion> Tried Portal 2 in coop mode with a friend. It’s fun.
14:15:22 <Gregor> A selected moment from coöp mode between me and a friend:
14:15:45 <Gregor> *we both enter the map, and immediately try to jump over a short fence to our deaths, failing* "Wow, I like how both of us immediately try to kill ourselves."
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14:29:44 <fizzie> The voip thing is a good idea in that particular game.
14:36:54 <ion> “Listen” http://translate.google.fi/#fi|fi|co%C3%B6peration
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14:58:49 <Phantom_Hoover> <Gregor> A selected moment from cop mode between me and a friend:
14:58:49 <Phantom_Hoover> <Gregor> *we both enter the map, and immediately try to jump over a short fence to our deaths, failing* "Wow, I like how both of us immediately try to kill ourselves."
14:59:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Fuckers, I've been looking for someone to play coop with for ages.
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15:07:31 <ion> The 66 % discount is still active, get a friend to purchase it now that it’s cheap.
15:15:19 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I've got a choice of two, and yet I don't.
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15:16:17 <Taneb> My computer isn't good enough :/
15:16:32 <Taneb> But now I have a choice of THREE and yet I don't
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15:18:25 <Taneb> I have a slightly more legal plan
15:18:43 <Taneb> /buy/ a better computer
15:19:08 <nortti> Taneb: how good is your computer?
15:19:47 <Taneb> nortti, good enough to play minecraft to my standards, not good enough to play minecraft to anyone else's standards
15:20:22 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, but then I'd lose my Neutral Good license!
15:21:23 <HackEgo> ? \ ais523 \ augur \ banach-tarski \ c \ cakeprophet \ category \ coffee \ comonad \ coppro \ egobot \ elliott \ endofunctor \ esoteric \ europe \ everyone \ finland \ finns \ fizzie \ flower \ friendship \ functor \ fungot \ glogbot \ gregor \ hackego \ haskell \ ievan \ intercal \ internationale \ itidus20 \ itidus21 \ kallisti \ lens \ lifthrasiir \ mad \ misspellings of croissant \ monad \ monads \ monoid \ monqy
15:21:30 <Taneb> `pastelogs `learn Hexham
15:22:02 <kmc> `? misspellings of croissant
15:22:06 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯
15:23:01 <nortti> Taneb: I can't take seriously anyone who claims to have computer not good enough if they have computer that is much faster than mine
15:23:36 <Taneb> Do you play Portal 2 a lot?
15:23:57 <nortti> Taneb: oh. you ment for gaming
15:24:17 <itidus21> my computer had a signifigant gpu upgrade recently
15:24:25 <itidus21> but.. i am at a loss of what software to use :D
15:25:06 <itidus21> i work my computer hard with xchat
15:25:58 <Taneb> itidus21, connect to ALL the servers
15:26:17 <Taneb> And join #esoteric and complain about how now you don't know what software to use
15:26:20 <Taneb> itidus21, ALL OF THEM
15:28:12 <itidus21> ok i surrender! i have emulators, and lego wolfenstein, and some unused 3d modelling stuff,
15:28:36 <itidus21> i waste my life away like so many trailing periods..........
15:29:00 <Taneb> itidus21, get Dwarf Fortress
15:30:23 <itidus21> no no i had an evil idea about DF...
15:30:41 <Taneb> Then get Minecraft?
15:31:02 <itidus21> exactly.. the thought occured to me that DF could be rendered in voxels
15:31:25 <Taneb> It could, quite easily.
15:31:25 <HackEgo> 855) <Phantom_Hoover> i once had a dream when i was told to look after some kittens but they were made of chocolate and i ate them :(
15:31:34 <Taneb> There are programs that do that
15:32:01 <Taneb> I dunno, never used them
15:33:40 <Taneb> itidus21, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63484.0/
15:34:18 <itidus21> for the record, i am not going to do any of these things.. but i do enjoy topics i can understand :-D
15:34:56 <Phantom_Hoover> One does not simply understan-- sorry no saying that's cutting too close to the pikhq line.
15:35:28 <itidus21> i dont understand DF proper.. but i do understand that it can be rendered :D
15:35:54 <Taneb> Hey, λnfx.n(λgh.h(gf))(λu.x)(λu.u)
15:36:52 <Taneb> λg.(λx.g(xx))(λx.g(xx))
15:40:09 <itidus21> i think there is simply no trivial way to describe what LC does illustratively
15:40:50 <itidus21> like it wouldn't be a good basis for a cartoon, or would it?
15:41:19 <kmc> http://code.google.com/p/visual-lambda/
15:41:30 <kmc> http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/
15:42:25 <Gregor> New from the makers of Dragon Ball, Lamuda Karukurusu
15:42:49 <itidus21> is it better than blue dragon probably? :D
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15:44:48 <itidus21> kmc: i think that basically.. they need to go the whole hog.. and make a 30 minute narrative based cartoon with a lambda calculus motif
15:48:15 <nortti> "Bravo! You have just written Forth in Brainfuck written in Forth."
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15:48:45 <Gregor> Boy I love how Freenode's host masking is basically useless.
15:49:57 <kmc> i hear you can set your client to authenticate to nickserv as you connect
15:50:25 <Gregor> * Phantom_Hoover (~Phantom@cpc15-sgyl29-2-0-cust133.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #esoteric
15:50:25 <Gregor> * Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host)
15:50:25 <Gregor> * Phantom_Hoover (~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486) has joined #esoteric
15:50:52 <Phantom_Hoover> That's just me setting the wrong fields in XChat, as kmc says.
15:51:54 <Gregor> The problem is that even if you set up the nickserv password in the client, there's no established handshake, so it can't wait for the response.
15:52:21 <Gregor> So if you have autojoin, there's a very high chance that you will join before NickServ has authenticated you, unless NickServ is atomic w.r.t. the rest of the network, which it typically is not.
16:02:23 <itidus21> Gregor: i am a big fan of akira toriyama and it is implied you are to some degree
16:02:45 <Gregor> That is one stretch of an implication, since I have no clue what/who you're talking about.
16:03:05 <Gregor> Presumably someone (?) related to the Dragon Ball series.
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16:03:51 <coppro> Gregor: as was mentioned, if you supply your nickserv password as the PASSWORD, then the cloak is applied immediately
16:04:23 <Gregor> Ahh, I didn't know Freenode accepted the nickserv password as the network password.
16:04:23 <ais523> coppro: I don't think so; I supply mine as the password, and it doesn't happen immediately enough
16:04:25 <Gregor> Makes sense I suppose.
16:04:31 <ais523> and I also /msg nickserv afterwards just to make sure
16:04:41 <ais523> [Notice] -NickServ- You are already logged in as ais523.
16:05:06 <coppro> ais523: that sounds wrong; it is supposed to supply the cloak before you are able to join any channels
16:05:21 <coppro> Gregor: Also, there is an established handshake
16:05:44 <zzo38> coppro: Then just don't join any channel before the NickServ message comes on. The amount of time it takes varies
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16:06:55 <Taneb> If that thingy ever happens to me, tell me
16:07:42 <Gregor> <coppro> Gregor: Also, there is an established handshake // I mean established across all networks.
16:08:26 <zzo38> You can login to NickServ using the PASS command, but sometimes there may be a delay before NickServ does anything about it (I am unsure why).
16:12:16 <Gregor> Presumably it just passes it into the whole *Serv substrate, which is not atomic w.r.t. the rest of the network.
16:12:28 <Gregor> (It's essentially an agent, not a server component)
16:18:14 <itidus21> akira toriyama was behind the art and story of dragonball, but of course they always have uncredited assistants. he also did art for many video games: dragon quest, chrono trigger, tobal, blue dragon
16:24:17 <zzo38> itidus21: But it seem three of them are "dragon"
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16:26:24 <itidus21> i think dragonball is by far his greatest work
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16:30:51 * kmc reads 20IOCCC entries
16:30:56 <kmc> nice work Gregor :)
16:33:21 <Gregor> <-- only winner with indented code, too 8-D
16:34:25 <itidus21> its the sort of thing i wish i could make myself.. i can't figure it out for the life of me how someone can just make a dragon ball story happen..
16:45:32 <itidus21> the methodology i have been trying is to fight convention, as if modern authors and artists had been swept out to sea by a riptide of convention
16:45:43 <itidus21> but i haven't been trying very hard
16:51:15 <Phantom_Hoover> You realise that having "fighting convention" as your entire creative vision inevitably just ends up with a piece of crap.
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16:52:48 <itidus21> i basically think that whatever kind of video games i make will be crappy in the same way as scott mccloud's zot comics are inherently quite crappy
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16:56:02 <itidus21> crappy can be interpreted as, probably noone wants to own the license
16:57:26 <itidus21> its very true that i just can't ignore the fact that he wrote a book about comics more popular than any actual comic he made
17:05:30 <itidus21> but he takes it in good jest http://scottmccloud.com/1-webcomics/misc/notneil.jpg
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17:42:53 <Taneb> Is it just me, or does the internet seem quite left-wing?
17:43:39 <kmc> probably it's just you
17:43:56 <kmc> by which i mean, the internet makes it easy to only interact with people who agree with you politically
17:44:20 <Taneb> That is a fair point
17:44:58 <kmc> and indeed makes it easy to only interact with people who believe the same factually incorrect things as you
17:45:01 <kmc> which is troubling
17:45:53 <Taneb> Wow, I've never thought of it like that
17:46:34 <cheater__> kmc: chorizo and mushroom spaghetti
17:47:19 <cheater__> <kmc> and indeed makes it easy to only interact with people who believe the same factually incorrect things as you
17:47:19 <cheater__> <Taneb> Wow, I've never thought of it like that""" <<< how meta-recursive
17:48:16 <kmc> http://www.abovetopsecret.com/
17:49:50 <Gregor> <Taneb> Is it just me, or does the internet seem quite left-wing? // I'mma go read Conservapedia kthx
17:50:56 <kmc> cheater__: that's because of the government UFO filtering chip installed in your prefrontal cortex by FEMA
17:51:33 <Gregor> In 1884, meridian time personnel met in Washington to change Earth time. First words said was that only 1 day could be used on Earth to not change the 1 day bible. So they applied the 1 day and ignored the other 3 days.
17:53:54 <Gregor> The ONEist educated with their flawed 1 eye perspective (opposite eyes overlay) Cyclops mentality, inflicts static non pulsating logos as a fictitious queer same sex transformation.
17:53:59 <Gregor> You tell 'em, Gene Ray! X-D
17:59:22 <cheater__> educated stupid by your cocksucker god
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18:01:30 <Gregor> It's amazing how he manages to seamlessly merge his hatred for religion, science, government, homosexuality and academia.
18:07:54 <kmc> http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/containmentpolicy.htm
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18:40:52 <itidus21> "whoa shit, the number 1 is overloaded with symbolism"
18:41:05 <itidus21> (disclaimer: not an actual quotation)
18:43:07 <itidus21> sooner or later technology will be imposed upon our bodies
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18:43:55 <Kray> I want a brain gateway to my irssi
18:44:13 <itidus21> you think you want that.. but.. its not good idea...
18:46:35 <itidus21> any advantages you can derive from direct brain interfaces will become disadvantages once the establishment is geared up
18:47:32 <coppro> Gregor: how does your IOCCC work?
18:48:09 <cheater__> in my vision, i was on the veranda of a vast estate, a palazzo of some fantastic proportion
18:48:32 <cheater__> itidus21: you sound like rex curry.
18:49:08 <itidus21> yibbada yibbada.. thank your mother for the rabbits
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18:50:50 <zzo38> Did you know about the various online quiz systems? I try to write compare including the my own program (Internet Quiz Engine).
18:51:06 <zzo38> I also included the text from Wikipedia
18:52:35 <itidus21> The world needs more good quizzes like some given exceedingly deficient thing needs a massive supplement!!
18:53:43 <zzo38> itidus21: Make up a quiz file on Internet Quiz Engine.
18:55:56 <itidus21> the trouble with multiple option dialogue trees is that each node of the tree feels like it's written as follows
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18:56:18 <itidus21> 1) define several branches in terms of some concrete decision or alignment
18:56:43 <itidus21> 2) write in text inspired by the decision or the alignment
18:56:44 <zzo38> Well, in this case it is simply ordered, it is not a tree. But it does support skipping questions based on the answers to previous questions.
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18:56:52 <itidus21> 3) expect people not to notice :D
18:57:22 <zzo38> Internet Quiz Engine supports up to 26 counters you can keep track of, and when displaying the results you can compare them with each other and with constants.
18:57:24 <itidus21> i propose that a better system would be to make the dialogue more random in nature
18:57:54 <itidus21> . o O (wtf is a dialog anyway.. sounds like webster's handywork)
19:05:37 <itidus21> the explanation is as good as inconclusive
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19:29:04 <Gregor> <coppro> Gregor: how does your IOCCC work? // quite well, thank you.
19:29:20 <Gregor> (Dig into it a bit, I'll answer /specific/ questions ;) )
19:35:01 <nortti> Gregor: I still haven't quite figured it out
19:37:42 <nortti> IOCCC entries are evil
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19:38:09 <Gregor> I can deal with that *shrugs*
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19:45:34 <olsner> Gregor: I'm lazy, please tell me everything about how it works
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19:46:19 <HackEgo> dessos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
19:46:46 <Gregor> olsner: It draws magical machine code from the aether, and then JITs it into the spirit of children all over the world.
19:47:41 <oerjan> ah, the olde powered by a forsaken child trope
19:48:04 <oerjan> or possibly the reverse
19:50:05 <nortti> <wm4> to burn Linux logs, you need a degree in physics and chemistry <wm4> unless you use logbuntu (then reading chemistry books without understanding them is enough) <wm4> (you'll also burn down your house)
19:54:32 <cheater__> <itidus21> sooner or later technology will be imposed upon our bodies << ahahahahahaha
19:54:46 <cheater__> what do you think you eat, drink, get administered
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20:01:02 <oerjan> aspiring technologists with aspergers
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20:08:25 <Taneb> There should be a Murderous Maths: Slimy Sets and Crazy Categories
20:09:22 <oklopol> praised be the inaccessible cardinal
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20:10:54 <oklopol> hey wouldn't it be funny if there was this esoteric version of math where ordinals were these seriously fucked up things that make you cry with a smile on your face every time you prove stuff about them
20:11:31 <Taneb> This is where I regret leaning what ordinal means via linguistics rather than mathematics
20:11:39 <oklopol> by maths, or by esoteric version of math?
20:12:17 <oklopol> (i said maths because i prefer to use the term most recently used)
20:12:46 <Taneb> AND THEN RANDOMLY SWITCH TWO LINES LATER
20:13:02 <cheater__> maths are an eigenvector of esoteric
20:13:20 <oklopol> yeah i couldn't use that ridiculous term twice in a row
20:13:56 <oklopol> do you mean no one here can do math?
20:14:42 <cheater__> no i mean that usual math is esoteric as it gets
20:14:58 <cheater__> what sort of music do you listen to
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20:15:05 <Taneb> But math is short for mathematics!
20:15:14 <oklopol> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmfzWpp0hMc
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20:15:42 <oklopol> do you want like a list or what
20:15:50 <oklopol> anything complicated that i find structure in
20:16:13 <Taneb> Like robotics and hydraulics, but mathsier!
20:16:17 <oklopol> faceless, born of osiris, animals as leaders, after the burial etc
20:16:30 <oklopol> biosphere doesn't ring a bell
20:16:54 <oklopol> can you link something of theirs
20:17:31 <oklopol> can you suggest a song, ambient isn't really my style
20:17:56 <cheater__> not really the whole cd needs to be heard to have the effect
20:17:57 <oklopol> if i like something with less than 10 notes a second, it's an anomaly
20:20:57 <oklopol> also 10 notes per second is not _really_ a necessary condition. but fast music is usually more interesting.
20:21:47 <oklopol> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-mJPxUt8RE name is fitting, this is hyperboring.
20:23:46 <oklopol> well i guess (04)^\infty is as good a sequence as any.
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20:28:22 <oklopol> so how long is this substrata
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20:45:54 <kmc> did you know Unicode has characters to use a character cell as a 4-pixel block?
20:45:54 <lambdabot> kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:45:57 <kmc> ▘▝▀▖▌▞▛▗▚▐▜▄▙▟█
20:45:57 <lambdabot> cheater__ said 48m 59s ago: sup aspy
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22:47:20 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, I have Portal 2 for what it's worth
22:47:55 <Sgeo> Why, are you trying to find someone who hasn't?
22:48:22 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott a) hasn't, b) wants to but c) can't be arsed to actually get Portal 2.
22:56:18 <Sgeo> Can a current Agoran tell me what the deal is with the taunt the police mechanic?
22:56:57 -!- Gregor has set topic: SPOILER ALERT: I use the boost to get through | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric.
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23:05:52 <Sgeo> `welcome dessos
23:05:55 <HackEgo> dessos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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23:40:44 <zzo38> In Astrolog, when I try to do transit calculation for house cusps it doesn't work. So I tried using flipped sign/houses but that causes the program to crash when flipped sign/houses are selected.
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