00:24:11 <oklofok> "oklofok can no space with a nontrivial fundamental group have uncountably many nonoverlapping embeddings?" oookay wtf was i thinking :D
00:24:28 <oklofok> how about a fucking circle :D
00:25:11 <oklofok> note to self: 8 != 0, _even in shape_
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00:31:37 <oklofok> also am i sleeping, because i sure hope so?
00:31:43 <pikhq> http://sprunge.us/QFUK I am mad.
00:32:08 <oklofok> can you give a tl;dr version?
00:32:20 <pikhq> It encodes uncompressed PNGs.
00:32:36 <kmc> hey i wrote one of those
00:33:34 <oklofok> did i mention that we programmed this ramsey theoretic function for fun which cannot actually be evaluated for any nontrivial inputs
00:33:44 <pikhq> This is how I intend to do screenshot functionality in cmako.
00:34:05 <pikhq> Also savestate functionality.
00:34:47 <oklofok> an ackermann-like function which explodes beyond comprehension at 3, and is defined for all ordinals up to \omega^\omega^... :P
00:36:06 <Sgeo> Wait, you can read in a game from an image?
00:36:22 <Sgeo> What sort of game is it?
00:36:31 <Sgeo> Wait, I'm assuming it's a game
00:36:35 <kmc> what's the mako vm?
00:36:53 <pikhq> kmc: Thing a friend of mine came up with. https://github.com/JohnEarnest/Mako
00:37:18 <pikhq> Kinda been fun implementing.
00:38:09 <Sgeo> ...the sort of way I talk to my gf is leaking into IRC
00:39:48 <oklofok> it's okay it makes us happy :)
00:41:27 <oklofok> Sgeo: so tell me about this gf
00:43:24 <Sgeo> She's doing programming at our college, she likes the Stargate franchise, she's smart (although she seems to not have independently learned CS stuff)
00:44:52 <Gregor> She has no physical manifestation, apparently, but then who needs one *shrugs*
00:44:52 <Sgeo> She seems to like everything I point her to (in terms of fiction etc.) She now likes The IT Crowd, Homestuck, and ... I don't remember what else
00:45:18 <Gregor> Of course, the meaning of "he" and "she" start to blur when you have no physical manifestation, but again, not really relevant.
00:45:41 <pikhq> Gregor: Incorporeal entities can still self-identify as a gender.
00:46:01 <Gregor> But that's so ... so ... /corporeal/. It's beneath them.
00:46:06 <augur> anyone wanna collaborate on a programming project? :x
00:46:19 <oklofok> augur: no, programming sucks.
00:47:04 <oklofok> due to programming so much
00:47:15 <oklofok> that i've gotten so smart that i got your reference
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00:47:30 <Gregor> oklofok: augur just uses "programming project" as a euphemism for gay sex. Actually, he uses almost everything as an analogy for gay sex.
00:47:40 <augur> Gregor: alas, right now i mean it literally
00:47:49 <oklofok> augur: then no, for other reasons
00:50:19 <oklofok> Gregor: but now you have the wrong article
00:51:04 <Gregor> oklofok: No, I just switched accents mid-stream.
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00:55:33 <oklofok> my non-native eyes cannot always tell from text
00:57:45 <oklofok> augur: having programming suck my dick would be nice for a change, usually it seems to be the other way around
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00:58:21 <kmc> pikhq: now i've found your github account
00:58:24 <kmc> and bootstrap-linux
00:58:25 <kmc> that's cool :)
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01:13:20 <Gregor> kmc: If you join #musl , you'll see that there's roughly one distribution per channel member, give or take.
01:28:23 <tswett> Gregor: eeyup. The horror! Okey dokey lokey! Yaaay. Ha ha, the fun has been doubled! NOPE!
01:29:40 <Gregor> tswett: What elliott is trying to say is, this kind of talk belongs in #esoteric-ponies
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04:50:33 <pikhq_> http://sprunge.us/AfdU
04:53:21 <pikhq_> Actually, sorry, shouldn't have pastebinned so soon.
04:53:48 <pikhq_> Genericising the thing works better when you do so completely.
04:54:08 <pikhq_> http://sprunge.us/TaED
04:57:41 <coppro> pikhq_: describe the interface
04:59:01 <pikhq_> coppro: You pass write_png a FILE* to write to, width and height of the image, the image, and a NULL-terminated list of chunk names in char*, chunk lengths in size_t, and chunk data in void*.
04:59:17 <pikhq_> ... Waaaait, not quite. XD
04:59:22 <pikhq_> I fucked it up slightly, XD.
05:03:12 <pikhq_> http://sprunge.us/EKPM
05:22:01 <pikhq_> GCC THAT IS NOT A VLA ON THE STACK, THAT IS A POINTER TO A VLA
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05:34:10 <ais523> pikhq_: pointer-to-VLA is a vaguely dubious type anyway
05:34:20 <ais523> is there any particular reason why you can't just use a pointer to the first element?
05:35:08 <pikhq_> ais523: Because I want to write foo[i][j] not foo[j + i*stride];
05:36:00 <pikhq_> And I have the reasonable expectation of gcc implementing a 13 year old standard right.
05:38:40 <ais523> hmm, I'm not actually certain offhand that a VLA /of/ VLAs is legal
05:42:51 <ais523> presumably all the inside ones have to have the same length
05:44:24 <elliott> 05:59 <pikhq_> coppro: You pass write_png a FILE* to write to, width and height of the image, the image, and a NULL-terminated list of chunk names in char*, chunk lengths in size_t, and chunk data in void*.
05:44:33 <elliott> FILE * is a bad interface to use :(
05:45:59 <ais523> oh, btw, was it people in here that were complaining that commands buffered their output? or elsewhere?
05:46:14 <ais523> I wrote a "nobuffer" program that wraps the relevant libc functions to not do buffering
05:46:21 <elliott> for instance, pikhq_'s encoder can't be used to portably write a png to memory without pain
05:46:46 <pikhq_> elliott: Therefore, fuck not-POSIX.
05:46:47 <elliott> or to a network transport that isn't "bare" (additional headers etc.)
05:47:02 <elliott> pikhq_: you wouldn't have a fun time doing it on POSIX either
05:47:20 <pikhq_> open_memstream says what?
05:47:25 <ais523> fmemopen is POSIX.1-2008
05:47:51 <elliott> for instance, those require specifying a size ahead of time
05:48:04 <pikhq_> open_memstream doesn't.
05:48:19 <elliott> however, see my other objection
05:48:19 <ais523> yep, open_memstream is the dynamically sized version (also POSIX)
05:48:27 <elliott> an in-memory string is a special case
05:48:39 <elliott> all you really want is a simple callback that takes a bunch of bytes
05:48:46 <elliott> (FILE *) is overspecifying
05:49:17 <ais523> (although that's a GNU extension)
05:49:22 <pikhq_> In the meantime, this thing is really, truly not working.
05:49:25 <elliott> you can just parameterise it on write_chunk (where s/FILE */void */ and bundle a void *)
05:49:52 <elliott> struct sink { void *data; void write-chunk(void *data, char type[4], size_t len, uint8_t *data); }
05:49:57 <ais523> elliott: OTOH, especially with C not having lambdas, it'd be a pain to write out the callbacks
05:50:14 <elliott> struct sink { void *closure; void write(void *closure, char *data, size_t len); }
05:50:26 <elliott> ais523: no it wouldn't; most of the time, you'd just say file_sink(my_file_ptr)
05:50:37 <ais523> where are you getting file_sink from?
05:50:39 <pikhq_> write_idat seems to be shoving me a nice, long chunk 0 bytes.
05:50:44 <elliott> it'd come with the library
05:50:58 <ais523> and when does it free its data?
05:50:58 <elliott> yes, it'd be inconvenient to add new outputs
05:51:04 <elliott> but inconvenient is better than impossible
05:51:11 <elliott> in this case, data would be the FILE *
05:51:19 <elliott> (closure is a better name)
05:51:21 <ais523> you're saying "file_sink(my_file_ptr)"
05:51:27 <ais523> presumably it returns a struct
05:51:32 <ais523> when does that struct get freed?
05:51:36 <ais523> or are you breaking thread-safety?
05:52:00 <elliott> actually, you've answered your own question by contradicting yourself
05:52:06 <elliott> in lines two and three there
05:52:28 <elliott> presumably it returns a pointer to a struct
05:52:46 <ais523> oh, right, I forgot it was even possible to return entire structs via copying
05:53:01 <elliott> the struct is just shorthand for passing the closure and function as two separate parameters here
05:53:04 <elliott> since that would be awkward
05:54:26 <pikhq_> How the heck am I getting a giant empty IDAT chunk?
05:54:34 <elliott> ais523: btw, I won that Crawl Light game
05:56:07 <monqy> I'm waiting for something before I play crawl light but I forget what it is
05:56:17 <elliott> you forgot that last time, too
05:56:22 <elliott> good news: hard mode now actually works!
05:56:54 <elliott> i hear it was hard enough that he had to turn down the hardness slightly!
05:56:57 <elliott> for summoned things or something
05:57:11 <ais523> elliott: you won Crawl Light? neat?
05:57:20 <ais523> was that with that +23 armour?
05:57:23 <elliott> ais523: hmm, neat is a question?
05:57:33 <elliott> and yes, that's basically why I won :)
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06:04:13 <elliott> monqy: You should play Light, it's like Crawl but easy.
06:04:24 <elliott> (Under suitably lucky circumstances.)
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06:05:43 <elliott> monqy: It's easy if you find +23 cpa.
06:05:52 <elliott> Also it's not actually easy.
06:06:11 * elliott wants to see the second Pandoora. :'(
06:08:32 <elliott> monqy: Have you played the bee castle?
06:08:35 <elliott> Think of what you're missing.
06:08:39 * pikhq_ is *immensely* confused
06:09:03 <elliott> But it's also a castle of bees.
06:09:26 <monqy> vanilla has castles too, light probalby has them too
06:09:27 <pikhq_> I'm getting nothing but a giant chunk of 0x00 out here.
06:09:33 <elliott> monqy: Does it have NetHack's castle?
06:09:50 <elliott> ais523: Tell monqy about the wonders of the bee castle, man.
06:09:54 <monqy> lemuel castle is good though, dunno if it's anything like nethack castle
06:09:57 <elliott> You're an expert on the grounds of adding it to the topic.
06:11:42 <ais523> elliott: I've been spouting "bee castle!" at dtsund every few months since he first brought the subject up
06:11:48 <ais523> now it exists it's not such a good meme any more :(
06:11:52 <elliott> monqy: Just imagine! No hunger, no identification, no curses.
06:12:03 <elliott> Just all that... good... Crawl... fun... uhhh, never mind.
06:12:11 <monqy> it still has big levels!!
06:12:21 <monqy> "it's not monqys-crawl"
06:12:23 <elliott> monqy: But there's less of them!
06:12:30 <elliott> So you can just imagine one level as being, like, two levels.
06:12:42 <elliott> And there's an exciting barrier on one of them!
06:13:23 <monqy> also it stashing and inventory management and stuff!!!
06:13:40 <monqy> i haven't decided what to do about inventory management in monqys-crawl but at least there won't be stashing
06:13:50 <monqy> and there will be fewer items
06:14:05 <elliott> It's still less annoying than Crawl!
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06:14:46 <monqy> i don't care about banded mail!!
06:14:54 <elliott> monqy: What kind of a monster are you???
06:15:22 <elliott> You are now monqy "waits for hard mode; complains about level size after wards" monqys-surname. :(
06:15:54 <monqy> that's not the only thing i'm complaining about
06:15:57 <ais523> I love the idea that monqy's surname actually is monqys-surname
06:15:59 <monqy> i'm complaining about plenty of other things too
06:16:32 <elliott> ais523: whois giveth and whois taketh away, Mr. (this is obviously not my real name).
06:16:53 <elliott> monqy: I think you're just scared of dying without your script!!!
06:17:04 <ais523> meh, I whoised monqy hoping it would list "monqy monqys-surname" as the realname
06:17:09 <monqy> elliott: remember how i got wrapped into that tournament
06:17:12 <elliott> ais523: That's the taketh away.
06:17:22 <monqy> elliott: i haven't died yet!!!
06:17:28 <elliott> monqy: Yeah, but you cast mephitic cloud!
06:17:34 <elliott> monqy: You just can't play like you used to.
06:17:36 <monqy> elliott: i cast it because you told me
06:17:56 <elliott> I was just showing you the horror inside of you.
06:18:06 <elliott> It's okay, some of us are just bad.
06:18:22 <elliott> You can avoid Light if you want but you cannot avoid your decay!!!
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06:19:11 <monqy> i'll play light eventually sometime. was hard mode the only thing i was waiting for?
06:19:13 <elliott> monqy: As I was saying, you should play Light.
06:19:22 <ais523> I meant that as a threat :)
06:19:36 <elliott> ais523: "kool" -- monqy monqys-surname, 2012
06:19:37 <monqy> such a playful sounding threat
06:19:39 <elliott> monqy: Well, that was the thing you remembered last time.
06:19:55 <monqy> well maybe i'll play it
06:19:58 <monqy> what should I play
06:20:00 <elliott> The best part is that the hard mode is alpha quality right now, so it'll be just as fun as monqys-crawl!
06:20:36 <elliott> ais523: meh, SEAM isn't even oldwon any more
06:20:50 <ais523> it was nemelex challenge, I think
06:20:54 <ais523> which is /why/ it's newwon
06:21:03 <ais523> it's a great combo, not only is it bad, it's not bad /enough/ to run as a challenge
06:21:07 <elliott> it is oldwon, because AM doesn't exist any more
06:21:23 <ais523> oh, bleh, they rereremovedit?
06:21:39 <elliott> 07:20 <Henzell> oldwon[1/2]: CeAr CeAs CeIE CeSt CeTm(Pac) CeWn CeWr DDCj DDMo DDTm DEAK DEAr DEPr DgEn DgSu FeDK FeFi FeNe(mikee) FePr FeWr GhAK GhVM GhWr HaAM HaSu HESt HuAs KoCK KoEn KoFi KoWz MfAE(hyperpivotal) MfAM MfPr MfSu MiSu(coolrobin) SEAM(coolrobin) SEFi SEPr SpAE SpGl VpAs VpEE VpFE VpTm
06:21:49 <elliott> no, it's just still oldwon-in-progress
06:21:56 <monqy> AM used to exist, then they removed it, then they unremoved it
06:22:14 <monqy> and I don't remember it being a nemelex' choice
06:22:16 <elliott> 07:22 <Pandoora> The RNG chooses: FeCj.
06:22:24 <elliott> the joke is that crawl light doesn't have felids
06:22:36 <elliott> ye was perfectly correct on its own
06:22:48 <elliott> 07:22 <Pandoora> The RNG chooses: GhAK.
06:22:51 <elliott> wow too perfect to be true
06:23:05 <elliott> that really happened, I swear
06:23:17 <elliott> 07:22 <elliott> !rng @badchar
06:23:17 <elliott> 07:22 <Pandoora> The RNG chooses: FeCj.
06:23:17 <elliott> 07:22 <elliott> !rng @badchar
06:23:17 <monqy> no im laughing at the joke where light doesnt have ghak
06:23:18 <elliott> 07:22 <Pandoora> The RNG chooses: GhAK.
06:23:31 <elliott> 07:23 <Pandoora> The RNG chooses: DEWn.
06:23:48 <elliott> ghaks raen't spookey. have you ever seen a crawl ghoule.
06:25:07 <elliott> 07:25 <Pandoora> The RNG chooses: HOAs.
06:25:11 <elliott> monqy: play higher-order abstract syntax
06:25:32 <monqy> no i dont want to pplay hoas
06:25:57 <elliott> it's suggested KeWr twice; maybe you should play KeWr
06:26:33 <elliott> or MDPr (its a joke i dont like mountain dwarves)
06:26:40 <elliott> (but its a joke pandoora came up with not me)
06:27:13 <elliott> MiEE. VpSk (ha). GhWz (ha). FeWz (ha). DSEn.
06:27:56 <elliott> so much bot-operating work for monqy.
06:28:25 <monqy> you don't have to find something with pandoora, it'll probably suck that way
06:28:33 <monqy> I want something "actually fun"
06:29:13 <elliott> why not dddk that sounds fun ! (assuming dks play like they do in monqys-crawl)
06:29:28 <pikhq_> Now it works *correctly*.
06:29:47 <pikhq_> Did you know that DEFLATE encodes little-endian, while PNG encodes big-endian?
06:30:53 <ais523> elliott: lack of divine healing?
06:31:00 <monqy> ais523: drain life
06:31:18 <elliott> i was thinking zombie shields though
06:31:49 <monqy> i don't want to play dk
06:31:55 <monqy> ally herding remember
06:32:00 -!- ais523 has set topic: not tommorow's topic | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
06:32:07 <elliott> ais523: tomorrow we'll fix the typo
06:32:23 <ais523> then the day after we'll reintroduce it!
06:32:51 <elliott> ais523: no, then it'll become "not yesterday's topic"
06:33:02 <elliott> ais523: fun fact: it can never become "yesterday's topic" without a falsehood being present in the chain
06:33:16 <HackEgo> 157) <oklofok> colon is where your ass comes from right
06:33:18 <monqy> not yeasterday's topic
06:33:20 <ais523> nor can it become "tomorrow's topic" unless it stays there forever
06:33:27 <HackEgo> 419) <d1ffe7e45e interpreter> The interpreter uses an unbounded tape size, but due to technical limitations will stop being unbounded if the tap size reaches 2^63 cells.
06:33:28 <HackEgo> 724) <elliott> I'm not biased towards humanity over sentient .txt files.
06:33:30 <HackEgo> 561) <Vorpal> elliott, it is typical of you <elliott> Vorpal: so are most things I say
06:33:32 <HackEgo> 495) <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds?
06:33:54 <elliott> 724 is crappy; 157 is crappier (if you make a joke out of this ill punch your face)
06:34:03 <ais523> I don't like that sort of joke
06:34:14 <ais523> I actually kind-of like 724
06:34:22 <HackEgo> β*poof* <oklofok> colon is where your ass comes from right
06:34:26 <elliott> also talking about it as a hypothetical will make me statistically more likely to punch you
06:34:27 <ais523> I think we're all agreed on that one, anyway
06:34:32 <elliott> the punches cannot be avoided by any means other than ignorance
06:34:50 <ais523> meh, I /can't/ make a joke out of that
06:34:57 <ais523> I wouldn't have said it if I did think of it
06:35:01 <elliott> ais523: the joke is "crappier"
06:35:02 <ais523> but now I'm disappointed :(
06:35:07 <ais523> elliott: yes, I see the connection
06:35:09 <ais523> just can't make a joke out of it
06:35:17 <ais523> I can make a coincidence out of it, but a coincidence is not a joke
06:35:45 <monqy> joke's on elliott, the joke is actually elliott's parenthetical
06:36:00 <elliott> that's probably insufficiently crappy
06:36:13 <monqy> are you trying to pick something crappy
06:36:13 <elliott> i didn't bother selecting Na to see which were the good (unrecommended) ones
06:36:19 <elliott> crappy in a very special sense
06:36:53 <elliott> are kenku interesting. i know literally nothing about them
06:36:57 <monqy> navm is "crappy" in the sense that they have the best poison magic apt in the game but I'm not casting meph
06:37:02 <monqy> kenku are just tengu but in the past
06:37:09 <elliott> i know nothing about tengu either
06:37:12 <elliott> other than that they're future kenku
06:37:37 <monqy> anyway i'm not playing kenku
06:37:51 <elliott> im just asking `whye' though so i know
06:37:59 <elliott> i nede the facts to be in the possession of uh myself :(
06:38:01 <monqy> they're all fragile and stuff
06:38:34 <monqy> i'd play OgRe but i don't want to
06:40:16 <monqy> i need to check something
06:40:57 <elliott> i dont understand whtasts the no
06:41:01 <pikhq_> http://sprunge.us/KXDZ Aaaah
06:41:15 <monqy> i played my ogwz in 0.8a and i don't know if tukima's was nerfed within 0.8a or 0.9a aaaahhhh
06:41:47 <elliott> you should play OgHe you've been overing over it for like 60 seconds
06:42:27 <monqy> ogtm is good though
06:43:29 <elliott> i thought you wanted something `fun'
06:44:06 <elliott> its too complicated for a monkey :(
06:44:36 <monqy> what's not `fun' about ogcr!!
06:44:52 <elliott> oh no i sent you a message but
06:45:02 <monqy> i dont think it works
06:46:59 <monqy> it'd match if it was found
06:47:00 <elliott> whatever that other altar was
06:47:09 <elliott> you searched for the and shining
06:47:14 <elliott> so i told you to search for one
06:47:51 <monqy> anyway i'm going to be living out my ogwz dreams as this ogcr
06:48:48 <elliott> that's kind of like how my kobe tried to roleplay being a mibe or a trbe
06:48:54 <elliott> unfortunately it did not have the requisite hp
06:50:39 <monqy> elliott: i'm doing what i did on my ogwz
06:50:46 <monqy> elliott: sif->tukimas->tso->holy gsc mania
06:51:04 <elliott> monqy: ah, i see; you're so bad at playing now that you have to rely on past blueprints to succeed
06:51:20 <monqy> iit's not about the success
06:52:34 <monqy> first level is so many keypresses uuugh
06:53:02 <elliott> "it gets better" - elliott, phd
06:53:23 <elliott> if you need excitement try quaffing fountains; picking up & wielding terrible weapons; adopting a bat
06:54:12 <elliott> monqy: shoudl have gone dd
06:54:22 <elliott> ais523: just walk around with a bat trying to kill yuo its adorable
06:56:34 <elliott> it'd be great trog would be constantly angry at you!
06:57:34 <elliott> monqy: oh i forgot the other good thing about crawl light
06:57:37 <elliott> sacrificing is so easy mmmm
06:58:28 <monqy> do stats ever regain naturally
06:58:52 <elliott> dont you have a potion of fix that
06:59:02 <elliott> imo every potion should be "potion of fix X"
06:59:07 <elliott> potion of fix not being poisoned
06:59:22 <monqy> whoa i wasnt looking at the sfcren
06:59:42 <monqy> i only saw the first orc
06:59:55 <elliott> monqy: you died as soon as you saw the second orc
06:59:58 <elliott> maybe on the very same turn, maybe on the next
06:59:59 <ais523> how does sacrificing work in Light? just walk over the corpse?
07:00:06 <elliott> ais523: p sacrifices everything in los
07:00:21 <elliott> there are other things you can do with corpses so walking over them doing that would be a pain
07:00:28 <elliott> (imo sacrifices should be removed but)
07:00:55 <elliott> more squarelos reasons: would let you sacrifice even more corpses in one go
07:03:25 <elliott> ive literally never seen anyone worship fedhas
07:03:33 <elliott> i have no idea what it's like
07:03:42 <monqy> go fedhas yourself
07:04:18 <elliott> monqy: better banish that grey rat
07:04:58 <elliott> ugh the lack of the water indicator is super annoying
07:06:23 <elliott> monqy "too good to do a sewer with 2 AC"
07:07:30 <elliott> monqy: not getting a god yet?
07:08:00 <elliott> i dont understand your plans :o
07:10:07 <monqy> hm maybe it's curropted templ
07:10:11 <monqy> should "check it out"
07:12:39 <monqy> what a lame acq for nonpolearms
07:12:49 <elliott> monqy: did i miss pandoora opening :(
07:13:05 <elliott> it was the other way around for me
07:13:20 <ais523> vaults in Crawl are rotatable by default
07:13:23 <ais523> unless you tell them not to be
07:15:56 <monqy> little known secret: in light you have a "get free mp for free" ability
07:16:33 <monqy> maybe I should pick a god now
07:17:17 <monqy> forgetting spells in crawl gives you back the mp the spell's worth
07:17:28 <monqy> in light you get that as an ability costing 7 glow
07:18:07 <elliott> forgetting spells? (if so, what cost does it have in carwl)
07:18:28 <monqy> in normal crawl you have to use a scroll of amnesia, and before that you had to use a 4mp spell or the corresponding sif ability but if you;--forget spell--re with sif you--that's what i'm writing right now--can use channeling to gregain mp so
07:18:42 <elliott> oh, so it's not an ability in regular corl
07:18:52 <HackEgo> β/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: huh': not found
07:19:00 <elliott> i wonder why light added it
07:23:01 <elliott> monqy: remember D:6 is more than D:6 because shorter dunjen!
07:23:06 <elliott> "hlepful advice from elliott"
07:23:15 <elliott> monqy: no you needed me for my advice
07:25:09 <elliott> "more helpful elliott advice"
07:25:20 <elliott> stay tuned for: banish that weak monster
07:26:07 <monqy> ugh randomised movement energ
07:26:30 <elliott> don't you have some wands or something yuo're pillar dancing its an embarrassment to monqy
07:27:32 <elliott> am i bad if i kinda like randomised movement energy btw
07:27:45 <elliott> but it nerfs pillar dancing!
07:27:52 <monqy> but it buffs it too
07:28:00 <elliott> howso; because sometimes you move twice instead?
07:28:07 <elliott> or the monster moves 0 etc.
07:28:09 <monqy> since you can dance until the monsters loses a move and then you can go up stairs and bam you're escaped
07:28:15 <ais523> I remember giving quite a bit of feedback on that
07:28:20 <elliott> is randomised movement energy only for monsters, not for you?
07:28:21 <monqy> and it's also really yucky and doesnt really work all that well against pillar dancing
07:28:23 <ais523> randomized movement lets you get a lead
07:28:25 <monqy> it's only ofr monsters
07:28:30 <ais523> so it doesn't really hurt pillar dancing
07:28:33 <elliott> then it would make pillar dancing ineffective
07:28:48 <elliott> easier ways to nerf pillar dancgin "remove regen over time"
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07:29:11 <elliott> i wonder why they added it then
07:29:35 <elliott> why did they add randomised movement energy
07:29:37 <elliott> if not to nerf pillar dancing
07:29:38 <monqy> it effectively applies to the player too since monsters get extra moves and lose them
07:29:42 <monqy> it was to nerf pillar dancing
07:29:56 <monqy> what extra gain would it be to make it apply to player too
07:29:59 <elliott> easier ways to nerf pillar dancgin "remove pillars"
07:32:52 <elliott> is there any way to get non-pathological terrain that does not allow for pillar dancing
07:33:03 <elliott> seems like your level layouts would end up being degenerate blobs
07:33:13 <elliott> 08:29 <elliott> easier ways to nerf pillar dancgin "remove pillars"
07:33:24 <Taneb> PILLARS YOU CAN PUNCH THROUGH
07:33:27 <elliott> i was defining a pillar more precisely as "anything that allows for pillar dancing"
07:33:38 <elliott> where pillar dancing is defined as "going around a pillar to recover HP while followed by a monster"
07:33:39 <Taneb> What's pillar dancing?
07:33:52 <Taneb> Better monster AI?
07:34:14 <ais523> I suggested that Xom should just collapse pillars if you walked round them enough
07:34:16 <elliott> i'm not sure what monster AI could do with it
07:34:19 <elliott> if it just went the other way
07:34:24 <elliott> pillar walk back and forth
07:34:28 <Taneb> If you're pillar dancing, another monster comes and helps
07:34:51 <elliott> monqy: i think ais523's solution is even better than removing regen
07:35:01 <elliott> ais523: is that regardless or whether or not you're worshipping Xom?
07:35:14 <monqy> the regen removal isn't just for pillar dancing
07:35:20 <monqy> it's also because i hate resting off damage
07:35:22 <elliott> monqy: i was being `unserious'
07:35:25 <monqy> among other things
07:35:42 <monqy> it's hard to tell when sometimes you like bad things!!
07:36:07 <elliott> note that: i have impeccable taste
07:39:11 <elliott> ais523: I think it's a nice idea for Xom to do things sometimes even if you don't worship them
07:39:28 <elliott> ais523: if he doesn't, he doesn't really have much credibility as the god of random chaos
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07:39:53 <elliott> (things that bother me: the overlap between xom and lugonu's flavour)
07:40:06 <elliott> i can rationalise the differences to myself but it still feels like rationalisation)
07:40:20 <ais523> lugonu flavour = lugonu hates everyone
07:40:23 <ais523> more than random chaos
07:40:35 <ais523> lugonu just corrupts things because other gods don't like it, IMO
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07:40:49 <elliott> ais523: well, the Abyss is pretty chaotic
07:41:37 <elliott> my view of the differences is: Xom is all about arbitrary, meaningless chaos and only cares about being amused; Lugonu is the god of chaos of a destructive sort, motivated by aforementioned "Lugonu hates everyone"
07:44:44 <elliott> btw, what *is* with the jiyva-having-a-random-surname thing
07:45:05 <ais523> because random-descriptions-for-X is one of the most common Crawl feature requests
07:45:15 <ais523> (X is frequently Xom, despite them being implemented already for him)
07:45:27 <elliott> what kind of random descriptions does Xom have?
07:45:42 <ais523> try pressing ^ when worshipping Xom
07:45:46 <ais523> I can't really remember
07:45:58 <ais523> IIRC they were planning to expand the list, maybe they already hae
07:47:04 <elliott> anyway, a surname doesn't count as a description :)
07:47:14 <elliott> monqy: ah this is the death yake level isn't it
07:49:53 <elliott> monqy: are you sure it's not the death yake levl it looks so much like it maybe im thinking of another one
07:50:01 <monqy> it's elephants level
07:50:12 <elliott> monqy: by death yakes i mean
07:50:22 <monqy> they become dire elephants
07:51:58 <elliott> like 70% of crawl targeting is exploiting the bresenham algorithm
07:52:47 <elliott> monqy: did you already kill the boss thing
07:52:52 <elliott> "more things elliott didn't notice"
07:53:08 <elliott> i forget this level completely!!!
07:53:11 <monqy> and I occasionally forget to ghaste instead of berk so i have horribel stats
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07:54:00 <elliott> is there no potions of make that better lying around
07:54:18 <monqy> someone destroyed the one i started with and i havent found anotherr
07:54:23 <elliott> ais523: Str: 10 (20); Dex: 5 (13)
07:54:30 <elliott> ais523: "that's our monqy"
07:55:18 <monqy> mayb i;ll find some in orc
07:55:41 <elliott> i hate this eantrnace vault
07:56:30 <elliott> with a priest in the othe rone
07:56:40 <monqy> wizards are worse than priests for me
07:56:45 <elliott> predict splat into deep water
07:57:27 <elliott> monqy: i know they are for you
07:57:36 <elliott> but not for me because i play mostly heavy armours !
07:57:52 <monqy> heavy armours don't shield your items from brutal wizard death
07:58:02 <monqy> you;'re just careless about being in los of priests
07:58:07 <elliott> monqy: true but i care about my hp more than my items!!!
07:59:01 <elliott> i guess not since you're not wielding one
07:59:15 <monqy> i found one in ?acq but i picked 3dex instead
08:00:11 <elliott> monqy: the joke is that you'd have a lot more than 3 extra dex if etc.
08:01:58 <monqy> this will fuel my tukimas nicely
08:03:15 <monqy> would be nice if i hand blink
08:03:19 <monqy> training spell skills
08:03:31 <elliott> "too easy" - trog & makhleb & lugonu guy
08:04:45 <monqy> it's actually more restrictive than killing things since if you want your xp to go into non-spellcasty skills you'll be spread thinner
08:04:50 <monqy> and you still have to kill things to get the xp
08:05:17 <elliott> (more annoying in corl as ghoule where you could pretty much go for a snack at any time)
08:05:59 <elliott> you could use that dex robe
08:06:04 <monqy> what a useless orc3
08:06:15 <elliott> idk do you have a cloak oh wait ogre
08:06:18 <elliott> i dont know how ogre do armour
08:06:36 <monqy> theay can wear robes and dragon armoures
08:07:01 <monqy> that's not body armoure
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08:07:24 <monqy> of nonbody they can do cloak, nonbuckler shields, caps, hats (no helmet)
08:08:04 <elliott> i was just saying re "lol @ that orc 3"
08:08:13 <elliott> because it had clok (albeit waste of money to spend on clok but)
08:08:19 <elliott> what robe are you wearing anyway
08:08:50 <monqy> just elven instead of orcish
08:09:23 <monqy> uugh no tukimas yet :(
08:09:42 <elliott> you should do slime, i have this great slime strategy
08:10:08 <elliott> it involves berking the royal jelly and then teleporting away after it finishes
08:10:30 <monqy> have I ever mentioned how I hate swamp
08:10:40 <elliott> if you did i don't remember
08:10:45 <elliott> it looks like shoals to me
08:11:50 <elliott> monqy: nice amulet too bad
08:11:54 <elliott> your only undrained stat!!!!
08:12:01 <elliott> wait where did you get acq
08:13:22 <elliott> monqy: nice insubstantial wisps; nice hp
08:13:30 <monqy> have I ever mentioned how I hate swamp
08:14:50 <elliott> monqy: 7 is such a bad tree glyph
08:14:58 <elliott> probably "oh no we've run out of ascii"
08:16:01 <elliott> nice slime creatures mmmmmmm
08:16:05 <elliott> this looks like the worst branch
08:16:28 <monqy> swamp or abyss or something
08:16:46 <elliott> i kinda like abyss on account of being intentionally awful
08:16:51 <elliott> i cant imagine swamp was designed to be awful
08:17:01 <elliott> meleeing a powerful mdfi "good ideas"
08:17:33 <elliott> why do people like mountain dwarvs again i honestly dont get it
08:18:15 <Taneb> desert dwarves are so much better
08:18:50 <elliott> im not playing crawl light any more also jesus
08:18:50 <Taneb> (are desert dwarves a thing?)
08:18:54 <monqy> ugh i forgot to flight myself
08:19:10 <elliott> have you considered running
08:19:23 <elliott> also there's shallow water you could jump into!!!
08:19:48 <elliott> picking up the scrolls before you stop being flames
08:21:52 <monqy> ugh is this undead ending ugh
08:22:08 <elliott> monqy: joke's that the curses don't do anything also yuo're dying
08:22:44 <monqy> ah right, joke's I have scblink
08:23:21 <elliott> monqy: ps did you know you can train things not on the m list
08:26:06 <elliott> good thing crawl light has no monster regen!
08:26:16 <elliott> monqy: you're not on hard mode you realise
08:26:29 <elliott> monqy: dude the bee castle is
08:26:37 <elliott> takes 3 minutes with rPois more than 3 minutes with rPois
08:26:40 <elliott> monqy: it's not hive it's bee castle!
08:26:46 <elliott> special just for normal mode players
08:26:53 <elliott> ok monqy i guess you're just not up to
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08:28:25 <elliott> seems like you can't even handle normal mode monqy!!!
08:32:05 <elliott> monqy: actually im not sure the branches actually change with pandoora 2
08:32:09 <elliott> the branches above the barrier
08:32:25 <monqy> im not sure either!
08:34:09 <elliott> 09:32 <elliott> dtsund: Are the branches above the barrier affected by hard-mode?
08:34:10 <elliott> 09:32 <elliott> Or is it just the dungeon and branches below the barrier?
08:34:10 <elliott> 09:33 <dtsund> The latter.
08:34:12 <elliott> 09:33 <elliott> Okay, cool.
08:34:14 <elliott> 09:33 <dtsund> I didn't want to punish the player for opening the door early.
08:34:17 <elliott> 09:33 <elliott> But it still applies to the whole dungeon, right, not just the part below that barrier?
08:34:18 <elliott> 09:33 <dtsund> Of course, this means that 3-runers in Hard will probably eventually just want to get their third rune from Slime; I might have to move the Slime entrance.
08:34:20 <elliott> 09:33 <dtsund> Just the part below the barrier.
08:34:26 <elliott> "i guess you can wait then"
08:34:47 <elliott> monqy: 09:34 <dtsund> The hard-mode challenge prior to the barrier will be to conserve resources as much as possible, since item generation gets curtailed in hard-mode.
08:36:57 <elliott> monqy: I guess that's precluded by getting all yr items smashed/burned though!!!
08:39:33 <elliott> monqy: wow you get all the ghosts
08:39:42 <monqy> it shot iood at itself
08:40:21 <monqy> -dam but a lot of useful stuff
08:40:26 <elliott> You crush the merfolk like a grape!!!
08:40:29 <monqy> so i swap it on when i need sinv or rpois or something
08:40:54 <elliott> monqy: hope you feel conservational
08:41:51 <monqy> all i want is tukimas dance is that too much to ask for :(
08:42:19 <elliott> monqy: maybe you'll get it in hard mode if you hold on to yr items!!!
08:42:28 <elliott> "crawl light giveth; & also taketh away sometimes"
08:43:35 <elliott> monqy: yr spells look fun. i should play something that does spells next crawl ss/light game
08:43:47 <elliott> oh no i'm getting addicted to "yr" again
08:44:27 <elliott> that's why i'm getting addicted to it!!!
08:45:42 <elliott> oh wait its snapping turtle not alligator snapping turtle
08:48:58 <elliott> im doing my best monqy impression
08:49:16 <elliott> haste seems a bit "o p" to me!!!
08:49:17 <monqy> oh that's what the space was for
08:49:31 <monqy> light reverted the haste nerf
08:49:43 <elliott> well i do the space thing a lot now anyway because of you
08:49:47 <elliott> i try to control it but it's difficult!
08:50:13 <elliott> i dont like some of the things light does
08:53:55 <monqy> forgot to put on rpois
08:54:28 <elliott> nice hp - mitt romney, 4 ad
08:55:25 <elliott> monqy: see if crawl had a wishing system like nethack...
08:56:26 <elliott> _You see here Sif Muna's Almanac of Improving Self {god gift}.
08:56:35 <elliott> monqy: pretty passive-aggressive of sif muna imo
08:56:46 <elliott> "i wrote it myself just for you"
08:56:55 <oklofok> yay finally 8 hours of sleep ^^
08:57:27 <elliott> monqy: i have an imrpotrant theological question
08:57:31 <elliott> when you become the champion of $god
08:57:43 <elliott> what happens to all the other worshipper's piety???
08:58:02 <elliott> how come your piety is never decreased by other people becoming the champion IT ODESNTJ MAKE SENSE
08:59:21 <monqy> i've never cast it yet
08:59:33 <elliott> even the abbreviated name is beautiful
09:01:16 <elliott> monqy: staff of energy sounds overpowered imo
09:01:30 <monqy> it was nerfed in normal carwl
09:01:37 <elliott> "added to the monqy conduct list"
09:01:47 <HackEgo> 826) <Sgeo> hack and back? <Patashu> works on anything much slower than you <monqy> at the cost of: guilt, hating yourself, me sending you the message "hi" <Patashu> am I also forbidden to cast mephitic cloud and cblink <monqy> i will also send you "hi" if you: kite excessively, use mephitic cloud, -yes
09:02:10 <Patashu> what was the nerf in normal crawl
09:02:40 <monqy> elliott: it's acceptable in normal cawlr because hunger sucks
09:02:50 <monqy> meph on the other hand is making fights boring
09:02:55 <elliott> monqy: what does it do in normal crawl
09:03:02 <monqy> used to eliminate spell hunger
09:03:04 <monqy> now halves it or smth
09:03:35 <elliott> monqy: i have this fear that light's replacement of hunger with glow for most everything is going to end up reproducing the hunger mechanism
09:04:11 <monqy> it won't reproduce hunger but i don't like it because of resting glow off
09:04:15 <monqy> resting things off is eughgh
09:04:21 <elliott> monqy: right so if they remove resting it off...
09:04:36 <elliott> but yeah did you find hive
09:05:34 <elliott> quaff mut quaff mut quaff mut
09:05:35 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy update a number of minutes back
09:05:51 <elliott> (unless you have cure mut in which case quaff mut)
09:06:57 <elliott> monqy: see, not just bees!
09:07:11 <elliott> predicting deep water splat
09:07:42 <elliott> monqy: that's the pandoora lmao
09:07:43 <Patashu> maybe crawl light should keep a list of all hard looking monsters you've seen on the level. whenever the list clears your glow becomes 0 automatically
09:07:53 <elliott> are you skipping the rest of hive
09:07:55 <elliott> that's not fair you gotta get:
09:10:31 <elliott> monqy: think of it on the bright side
09:12:00 <elliott> monqy: btw i doubt your save will end up fixed
09:12:17 <elliott> monqy: through the combined powers of laziness and dtsund not having access to the server
09:12:31 <elliott> monqy: which server are you on
09:13:09 <elliott> why is elynae playing the tutorial
09:15:05 <elliott> it adds exclamation marks to yr rC
09:15:26 <elliott> is that fda what used to be xtahua
09:18:25 <elliott> monqy: this D:19 sure does look like vaults
09:19:54 <elliott> monqy: do you use macros; macros are weird
09:20:21 <monqy> I use macros myself but not so much on robins
09:20:48 <elliott> "I use macros myself" -- monqy "spacebar" monqys-surname
09:22:03 <monqy> and technically autofight is a lua macro that's hardcoded to be bound to tab
09:22:09 <monqy> so even you use macro
09:24:30 <elliott> monqy: anyway by macros i meant
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09:29:02 <monqy> twisted resurrection
09:29:24 <monqy> turns corpses into purmanent allies
09:29:29 <elliott> monqy: whats new resurectednjtwiste
09:29:47 <monqy> old twistedres turned stacks of corpses into permanent allies (the bigger the stack, the stronger the ally)
09:30:12 <monqy> new twistedres turns corpses into macabre masses and stuff which merge together into abominations so you don't have to play the corpse stacking game
09:31:56 <Patashu> it makes the spell better, yes
09:32:12 <elliott> monqy: what was the portal btw
09:33:04 <elliott> monqy: ps yuo've convinced me re movement energy randomisation
09:33:48 <elliott> time to show my support for the cause
09:34:51 <elliott> awaiting my paycheque from monqy
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09:35:35 <monqy> paycheque in thumbs up and a pat on the back
09:43:07 <elliott> monqy: the uppercase names scare me a bit. do they scare you.
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10:02:15 <Sgeo> elliott, I just remembered that the Crawl tutorial is broken
10:02:19 <Sgeo> I should tell someone
10:02:23 <elliott> yr missing MEPHITICCLOUD right now
10:02:32 <elliott> crawl.develz.org port 345 watch it stat it's the most hilarious crawl play ever
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10:07:16 <Sgeo> What's hilarious about it?
10:08:45 <elliott> Sgeo: you started watching just after the streak of really hilarious stuff stopped
10:08:54 <elliott> but maybe you saw the scroll-iding of a book!
10:09:23 <elliott> before that he miraculously berserked boris to death and then started dying after he started typing a note without pressing : first causing random things to happen
10:09:25 <Sgeo> I'm tempted to ask "Couldn't you just read the book?" but I guess that's why it's hilarious
10:09:46 <Sgeo> It's going a bit fast for me to process
10:09:54 <elliott> 11:02 <mikee_> i like how it sort of seems like monqy knows what he's doing
10:09:54 <elliott> 11:02 <mikee_> and then it quickly turns bad every time
10:10:02 <elliott> right now it's mostly boring grinding
10:10:06 <elliott> hence why it's going so fast
10:10:18 <Sgeo> Ping me if it gets interesting
10:10:30 <Sgeo> I'm looking for an image in Pidgin
10:14:33 <Sgeo> Something about should have bought a scroll
10:14:47 <elliott> it was exciting executioner melee
10:15:42 <Sgeo> Why is this ViewMTN thing being slow
10:16:11 <Sgeo> Why would you want to do what>
10:16:40 <elliott> Sgeo: its still interesting _Enter note: time to fcloud some demons with no rpois
10:16:47 <elliott> that's what it says if you try
10:17:16 <Sgeo> Chrome is being annoying :/
10:33:02 <elliott> monqy: duplicate firbeall?
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13:26:38 <itidus20> ok guys, heres a puzzle: eee, esw, ese, ene, een, ees, ense
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13:34:32 <Sgeo> itidus20, looks like compass directions
13:35:24 <Sgeo> Well, not a good guess
13:36:44 <Sgeo> 3e,3e1s,5e2s,7e1s,9e,11e1s,13e1s
13:37:08 <Sgeo> I have no idea how that is useful, nor whether that's correct
13:40:12 <itidus20> All I will say is that there is a meaning to it all, and it's fairly unambiguous once you see it. >:-)
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13:47:47 <itidus20> ok to help out.. there are some isomorphic ways the puzzle could be presented
13:50:03 <itidus20> the puzzle could also be presented isomorphically: sss, sen, wnw, wsw, sww, nww, wnsw
13:50:24 <itidus20> i dunno if the word isomorphic is appropriate here though..
13:50:52 <itidus20> but the ultimate meaning of the puzzle is the same for both
13:52:53 <itidus20> www, sen, wnw, wsw, sww, nww, wnsw
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14:00:27 <itidus20> Sgeo: ok i'll put it another way that might help, ok? :D
14:00:40 <Sgeo> Sorry, wasn't paying attention
14:01:40 <itidus20> Sgeo: here it is reformulated eeee, eswn, ense, eese, eene, eeen, eees
14:05:06 * Sgeo is reading http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radar/Animaniacs
14:07:14 <itidus20> ok ok ill just spell it out cos its not really worth going on about any longer.. its compass directions to draw tetris pieces >:-)
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17:32:41 <oklofok> itidus21: i guessed that it meant that but i didn't realize in my head that those were the tetris pieces, is there a consolation price for being that stupid?
17:33:19 <itidus21> i drew them first on paper.. and i had written abcd in the boxes
17:33:27 <itidus21> and i got the idea while stareing at them
17:34:24 <itidus21> first of all its confusing because.. i included the initial position
17:34:54 <itidus21> also.. its confusing because it acts as if tetris pieces are set in stone
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17:37:17 <itidus21> i mean like eee kind of means o->o->o->o .. and eeee was like saying.. ->o->o->o->o
17:38:07 <itidus21> and then www was like saying o<-o<-o<-o
17:43:14 <itidus21> i think if i included an extra character like p for pen toggle.. then it would become more useful
17:43:57 <itidus21> and start coming closer to being an esolang component
17:47:03 <itidus21> *e*e*e*, *e*s*w*, *e*s*e*, *e*n*e*, *e*e*n*, *e*e*s*, *e*n*se*
17:50:29 <itidus21> or to make it a complete program with spacing: *e*e*e*,eee *e*s*w*,eee *e*s*e*,eee *e*n*e*,eee *e*e*n*,eee *e*e*s*,eee *e*n*se*
17:57:31 <oklofok> well mostly it was confusing that i have very little working memory
17:57:59 <oklofok> and presumably made some errors, i need east and west daily, but i still tend to confuse them :/
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18:00:40 <itidus21> oklofok: well it helps in australia.. we have this state called western australia which might be about the same size as scandinavia
18:01:02 <itidus21> we also have a state called south australia
18:01:10 <itidus21> and a territory named northern territory
18:01:31 <oklofok> well we have western and eastern finland, it doesn't help.
18:01:53 <itidus21> yes but western australia has nothing in it.. it's essentially a giant desert
18:02:05 <oklofok> it still takes a second or so to check which is which unless i've used them in the last 10 minutes, and if i forget to check, occasionally they are the wrong way around.
18:02:15 <itidus21> i often refer to it to work out which is which
18:04:19 <itidus21> norway area: 385,252 km^2 .. western australia area: 2,645,615 km^2
18:04:36 <itidus21> i don't know why i started with norway
18:07:33 <itidus21> but yeah.. clearly easily dwarfs it
18:07:48 <itidus21> giant giant state full of little more than desert
18:09:19 <itidus21> i suppose the idea is that since up doesn't change much
18:09:47 <itidus21> but east and west (of us) are always changing
18:11:09 <itidus21> then crazy shigeru miyamoto decides his characters should leap between spheres
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18:12:14 <itidus21> i have known of paintfuck.. its kind of disturbing i think about tetris pieces in paintfuck terms
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18:15:56 <olsner> so who highlighted me sometime during the past 5 days?
18:18:03 <itidus21> 2012-05-19 18:51:57: <Taneb> `quote 18:52:06: <HackEgo> 831) <olsner> they call finnish human-readable?
18:18:47 <itidus21> 2012-05-18 02:22:30: <HackEgo> 785) <olsner> what a world it would be if you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back
18:19:15 <itidus21> lmao.. too many quotes to list
18:26:48 <nortti_> what language were you talking about?
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20:03:31 -!- Gregor has set topic: This just in: Americans place kangaroos in the alps to avoid awkwardness from poor country name recollection | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
20:16:08 <nortti_> don't worry. that message will be in my awaylog when I get to check it in aproximately 16 hours
20:20:44 <oklofok> nortti_: is that an automated message?
20:20:54 <oklofok> i probably couldn've looked at the timestemps
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20:28:45 <itidus21> if 3d is projection from 3d space onto 2d space
20:29:27 <itidus21> i wonder what kind of space that some line art and pixel art projects from
20:31:01 <itidus21> cell shading seems to think 3d is the answer
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21:05:15 <monqy> wow what a coincidence i just woke up
21:06:09 <elliott> monqy: sometimes i say something to people on the exact same second they say something to me after 30 minutes plus of silence
21:06:56 <elliott> 14:37:17: -!- Gregor changed the topic of #esoteric to: not Tom Morow's topic | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/
21:07:03 <elliott> we had a whole plan and everything
21:08:52 <elliott> wow dtsund casts meph constantly
21:09:03 <elliott> i bet light reversed the meph nerf too
21:09:26 <monqy> i forget when it was added
21:09:35 <monqy> i think meph was nerfed multiple times
21:10:28 <Gregor> <elliott> we had a whole plan and everything <elliott> you broke it! // 's what I do.
21:10:48 <elliott> monqy: huh Enchanter got renamed to Sorcerer in light
21:11:06 <monqy> light's ench split is a bit different than crawl's
21:11:35 <monqy> i think instead of charm/hex it did enchantments/sorcery and sorcery also includes venom magic?
21:11:51 <ais523> elliott: not quite renamed, they merged the schools differently
21:11:55 <ais523> so it's not quite an identical role
21:12:05 <monqy> and for normal crawl eronarn wants to replace venom magic with alchemy which would also steal some of tmut's spells
21:14:50 <elliott> afaict crawl light started out by making the game worse by massively un-nerfing everything
21:15:13 <elliott> https://github.com/dtsund/dtsund-crawl-mod/commit/f71b56fc71d2161b418bcd1cb93691ba6596b114 this is good though
21:16:11 <monqy> i remember reading the original crawl light announcement and thinking it was silly but then i talked to dtsund and changed my mind. i forget what the original announcement had in it though
21:17:08 <elliott> were mountain dwarves removed before they started it. i have this sneaking suspicion he likes mountain dwarves
21:17:25 <elliott> (i really really hate stereotypical tolkein/d&d-style fantasy)
21:17:31 <elliott> (only dwarf fortress can get away with that)
21:17:53 <monqy> you know who else really hates tolkein/d&d-style fantasy?
21:18:43 <elliott> thanks for copying my typo monqy
21:18:48 <elliott> that one was accidental!!!
21:18:49 <monqy> i don't know how to spell either
21:19:04 <elliott> i used to know how to spell
21:19:08 <monqy> so i just copied your spelling on the assumption that it was either correct or a splendid typo
21:19:39 <monqy> i think dtsund has been asked about removing one of mi/md and said he might do it?? i forget the exact conversation that went down
21:20:12 <elliott> monqy: check #crawllight the joke is
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21:33:16 <elliott> monqy: maybe you can open the second pandoora after all!!!
21:34:04 <elliott> ais523: you just missed a great bug in #CrawlLight
21:34:37 <elliott> 22:29 <elliott> hahahahaha
21:34:37 <elliott> 22:29 <elliott> if(you.dactions[i] == DACT_SEAL_PANDOORA)
21:34:37 <elliott> 22:29 <elliott> lua_pushboolean(ls, true);
21:34:48 <elliott> 22:30 <elliott> this isn't python :)
21:36:47 <elliott> # overall difficulty level when opened. Behind the door is a scroll of
21:36:47 <elliott> # acquirement, which can be read or given to an Abyss portal later for a shot
21:37:16 <olsner> elliott: are you sure that's a bug and not just intentionally obfuscated?
21:38:02 <elliott> I didn't realise anyone actually made errors like that
21:38:10 <elliott> it's like the if (1 == x) stuff
21:38:17 <olsner> the funny spelling of PANDOOORA is perhaps funnier
21:38:42 <elliott> it's intentional; the Pandooras are doors
21:39:02 <olsner> oh, I see, that's clever
21:40:42 <elliott> monqy: oh wow i just looked up what tukimsa is
21:42:09 <olsner> I kind of wonder why it's only testing a single DACT in an if (instead of e.g. a switch), and why it's working on dactions[i] (it's in a loop that looks for pandoooras?)
21:42:30 <elliott> olsner: yes, it's in a loop to check whether the pandoora was opened or not
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21:48:49 <elliott> Hmm, I wonder where the movement energy code is.
21:52:17 <monqy> apparently undoing energy randomisation is actually implemented in mcrawl so you could look there
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21:52:40 * elliott is considering implementing squarelos & unrandomised movement energy for crawl-light.
21:53:08 <elliott> Reid Barton pushed 2448 commits to ~rwbarton/crawl/mcrawl:mcrawl. View diff
21:53:42 <monqy> that's probably merging master in
21:54:06 <monqy> could pull mcrawl's master and mcrawl and diff them idk
21:55:14 <elliott> 22:54 <CIA-68> crawl-light: Derrick Sund cl-trunk * rc298457 / crawl-ref/source/monster.cc : Unrandomize monster energy loss. - http://git.io/_YD1zA
22:01:17 <elliott> Does anybody actually understand Cont? (self.haskell)
22:01:17 <elliott> submitted 52 minutes ago by drb226
22:03:21 * ais523 vaguely wonders how many votes you'd get for answering "no"
22:03:57 <elliott> I was considering being a smug jerk and linking to my really long explanation of Cont.
22:08:23 <elliott> 23:03 <dtsund> You want I should try to repair it in some way?
22:08:23 <elliott> 23:04 <elliott> I think monqy was hoping it could be
22:08:23 <elliott> 23:04 <elliott> but you'd have to ask him
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22:11:14 <elliott> monqy: btw I was trying to figure out what the Euclidean equivalent of circlelos is... i.e. assuming Chebyshev distance, Crawl's circlelos is shorter on the diagonals than it should be
22:11:32 <elliott> I think Crawl's los would be a diamond were it in Euclidean space
22:11:50 <elliott> that probably didn't make any sense
22:12:03 <Gregor> Wikipedia sez: Did you know ... that The Lego Group produced 381 million tires (example pictured) in 2011, making it the largest tire manufacturer in the world?
22:12:22 <elliott> Gregor: oh it'll be `a different lego'
22:12:40 <elliott> monqy: Euclidean space : circle LOS :: Chebyshev space : square LOS
22:12:49 <elliott> monqy: Chebyshev space : circle LOS :: Euclidean space : ?
22:13:19 <monqy> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
22:13:23 <elliott> i.e. if you have a transformation Chebyshev square LOS --> Euclidean circle LOS
22:13:29 <elliott> Chebyshev circle LOS --> Euclidean ? LOS
22:13:47 <elliott> I was trying to get an intuition for what circle LOS actually does to your LOS
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22:15:24 <elliott> monqy: do you know what the best aprt is
22:16:34 <elliott> monqy: the other best part is that you're going to have a hell of a time finding tukima's with hard mode's curtailed item generation
22:17:35 <elliott> monqy: but you can get it from sif right
22:17:43 <monqy> that's the only reason i'm sif
22:18:32 <monqy> if i had found tukimas in the first pandoora then i would have either gone some other god or tso right from the start
22:18:50 <monqy> (but i didnt found)
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22:36:15 <itidus21> http://oi50.tinypic.com/muzm9y.jpg
22:37:06 <Vorpal> monqy, what is the topic? Some game?
22:37:31 <Vorpal> (except that only makes sense for the last few lines??)
22:37:39 <elliott> (a fork of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup)
22:37:48 <elliott> ((a continuation of Linley's Dungeon Crawl))
22:37:49 <Vorpal> is it better or worse?
22:37:55 <elliott> better in some ways; worse than others
22:38:12 <elliott> (it removes hunger and identification and curses)
22:38:17 <Vorpal> I never got around to playing any version of crawl
22:38:31 <Vorpal> oh come on, hunger is an integral part of the genre!
22:38:41 <elliott> you have clearly never played crawl
22:39:05 <elliott> if we're going to judge all roguelikes by rogue then games aren't allowed to have upstairs either
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22:39:12 <itidus21> this is a drawing i made just now, with some relation to brainfuck: http://oi50.tinypic.com/muzm9y.jpg
22:39:29 <elliott> Vorpal: anyway in crawl hunger mostly serves to just annoy you
22:39:31 <Vorpal> I played angband (or was it zangband? well, some angband version anyway), a tiny bit of ADOM (don't remember much details), nethack, slash'EM
22:39:43 <elliott> it doesn't really have any effect on the game except sometimes you have to kill something once in a while
22:39:56 <elliott> (which is pretty easy, since monsters regenerate)
22:40:13 <Vorpal> well, that isn't like hunger in nethack then
22:40:22 <elliott> hunger in nethack is pretty crappy too
22:40:23 <Vorpal> where it is a real threat, especially at low level
22:40:44 <elliott> crawl's id game is also really boring
22:41:01 <elliott> read iding scrolls is trivial to make safe; quaff iding potions is a bad idea
22:41:25 <Vorpal> what about iding gems?
22:41:29 <elliott> so you just read all scrolls you come across, and use scrolls of identify on potions and jewellery that doesn't use-id
22:41:53 <elliott> crawl's cursing is also really boring, it just means you can't unwield/take off/etc. the item
22:42:08 <Vorpal> well nethack has a bit of variation there
22:42:14 <elliott> the only time it's ever really a problem is when you curse your weapon and it's blunt
22:42:19 <elliott> which stops you chopping corpses
22:42:21 <Vorpal> quite a bit of variation, especially cursed scrolls and potions and so on
22:42:24 <elliott> and then you starve or waste your permafood
22:44:10 <zzo38> Yesterday I was in Victoria
22:44:10 <lambdabot> zzo38: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
22:44:15 <zzo38> I also played Dungeons&Dragons game
22:44:20 <elliott> What a coincidence! I wasn't.
22:44:24 <lambdabot> nortti said 27d 6h 24m 36s ago: Myhell script gopher client: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28915864/shgopher
22:44:24 <lambdabot> Taneb said 1d 7h 52m 58s ago: Thoughts on Prelude.Generalize: Data.Semigroups rather than Data.Monoid, perhaps? (maybe)
22:46:09 <itidus21> zzo38: maybe you are the one i am showing this to! http://oi50.tinypic.com/muzm9y.jpg
22:46:27 <zzo38> I have plan for Dungeons&Dragons game, somehow trick the chancellor into a trap, see if there is any beholder as a member of the wizard guild, save the king, barter for services and scrolls due to lack of money.....
22:46:43 <elliott> oh wait that's a real word
22:47:15 <Vorpal> I remember one game of nethack where by chance I ended up with a load of gain level potions (20 or so). So I cursed them and used them to quickly ascend after I got the amulet.
22:47:50 <elliott> Vorpal: good thing you're not DeathOnAStick
22:48:14 <elliott> DeathOnAStick is a NetHack player. He/she is famous in the NetHack community for their year-and-a-half-long game on nethack.alt.org, from 2004-04-17 to 2005-11-27. They spent much of this time arduously polypiling rocks into gems and collecting pet giants to carry the abundant bags of gems for them.
22:48:14 <elliott> After killing the Wizard of Yendor on dungeon level 1, they drank a potion of gain level found on its corpse. It was cursed, as it turned out.
22:48:16 <elliott> Upon reaching the Plane of Earth, they desperately checked their inventory, and indeed they were carrying no gems. At this point, they went idle for 38 seconds. A few of their entourage of giants had been close enough to be dragged into the Planes with them, but they were either killed off or left behind at the inter-plane portals. Ultimately, the only gems DeathOnAStick had at their ascension were 2 dilithium crystals.
22:48:44 <elliott> whole dungeon levels filled with gems
22:49:07 <elliott> Vorpal: the good ending is [[He/she tried again years later, ascending after 405 hours on August 16, 2010 with over 8,000 gems.]]
22:49:10 <elliott> i watched it as it happened
22:49:18 <elliott> half the time was spend shoving the giants around
22:49:40 <Vorpal> well I would never be able to bring myself to do that
22:50:22 <zzo38> I have proof that the demon has something to do with them, I borrowed one of the false guard's dagger and give it back, now I learned the demon is 2200 years old and the guard is also evil (human), the king's bed was filled with a magic dummy, and I believe the chancellor is bad person too
22:50:35 <Vorpal> (Speaking of tedious things, who in their right mind plays EVE Online...)
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22:50:53 <elliott> eve is something you read about after the fact, not actually participate in
22:51:00 <elliott> i would read an eve newspaper
22:51:15 <Vorpal> the politics and so on can be quite interesting.
22:51:24 <Vorpal> I just can't imagine ever /playing/ it
22:51:47 <Vorpal> it seems to me to be basically Spreadsheet: The Game
22:52:03 <elliott> to be fair they say the same about dwarf fortress
22:52:36 <Vorpal> well, I never done more than a couple of calculations for df really, and that was when invading hell.
22:53:01 <Vorpal> (or do you mean more generally? Then: sure, yeah)
22:53:11 <itidus21> i'm always trying to promote participation
22:53:28 <Vorpal> itidus21, in specific or in general?
22:53:47 <itidus21> well.... this is probably the reason i never finished a game
22:54:04 <itidus21> and eventually i forgot how to program.. blah.. this isn't my hour
22:55:32 <itidus21> anyway.. here is how i think brainfuck would look as a game: http://oi50.tinypic.com/muzm9y.jpg
22:55:37 <Vorpal> elliott, hm anyway how did he get the gems into his inventory in the end? Because iirc you need your things to be in your inventory for it to count in the score?
22:57:59 <elliott> "They spent much of this time arduously polypiling rocks into gems and collecting pet giants to carry the abundant bags of gems for them."
22:58:26 <itidus21> Vorpal: well like.. a lot of games have an attack button... i think that almost prevents players really participating in the attack.. this is what appeals to me most about motion controls
22:58:29 <Vorpal> yes quite, but do what they carry count in the score? Or do you have to get them into your own inventory at the very last step?
22:59:09 <elliott> Vorpal: I presume what they carry counts
22:59:27 <monqy> i dunno how i got thos
22:59:57 <Vorpal> itidus21, which system are you talking about? From what I heard some of them are pretty bad
23:00:42 <elliott> (also, are you going to enchant that gsc or are you waiting for something else?)
23:00:45 <itidus21> Vorpal: you're right.... but the idea at least behind motion controls is good. instead of just hitting a button and letting the avatar have all the fun.. even though the execution isn't great
23:01:18 <Vorpal> itidus21, you can have more advanced combat with a mouse and keyboard too
23:01:50 <itidus21> qwop lets you participate in running more than just holding the right arrow.. but it's intentionally difficult
23:01:54 <Vorpal> itidus21, like Mount & Blade does. Where you have to attack and parry with different strength in different direction
23:02:18 <Vorpal> never played it, watched some videos though, seems fun
23:02:52 <itidus21> it's not actually fun.. its painful..
23:03:18 <elliott> but not as good as that other one
23:03:36 <Vorpal> ah okay, I was talking about the example I gave
23:03:44 <Vorpal> anyway qwop is absurd yeah
23:04:33 <monqy> Vorpal: that other one.
23:04:35 <Vorpal> hm will check that out when I'm on a computer with flash
23:04:41 <itidus21> but as annoying as they are, i gotta give qwop and girp credit that tey encourage active participation
23:04:56 <elliott> Vorpal: It's... an unpleasant experience.
23:05:11 <Vorpal> elliott, sure, but I'm sure I can stand 20 seconds or so of it :P
23:05:28 <elliott> Vorpal: But it's the only game that has managed to get thousands of people to dig their fingers into keys like their life depended on it.
23:05:31 <Vorpal> itidus21, I'm not sure that is needed in all games. RTS manage just fine without it for example.
23:06:04 <itidus21> ive never used the word participation before about games.. so im throwing it about
23:06:14 <Vorpal> elliott, do you have to hold on to something or what?
23:07:10 <Vorpal> speaking of which: shadow of colossus. Awesome game. Played a bit of it recently at a friend's place. Pity it is PS2/PS3 exclusive.
23:07:34 <Vorpal> in reply to which line?
23:08:00 <elliott> The one that was a question.
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23:09:18 <Vorpal> itidus21, you should totally play Shadow of Colossus some time. Awesome game. I mean, everything is just awesome. Can't think of a single complaint about it.
23:10:36 <monqy> maybe i should play shadow of the colossus some time. i hear it's an awesome game.
23:10:41 <Vorpal> okay I have a computer with flash next to me now
23:10:53 <itidus21> well i have ideas about games using rube goldberg machines to build weapons in a game.
23:10:55 <Vorpal> wait what the fuck... those girp key bindings look weird
23:11:12 <Vorpal> how is that even possible with the "use the mouse rather than ctrl" variant
23:12:10 <itidus21> foddy is a sadistic bastard, so i'm sure it won't be easy whatever control scheme you use
23:12:30 <elliott> Vorpal: The terrible part is that the layout of the cliff is different to the keyboard layout.
23:12:33 <elliott> So you constantly let go of the wrong keys.
23:13:52 <Gregor> <elliott> Vorpal: The terrible part is that the layout of the cliff is different to the keyboard layout. // quite intentionally so, of course.
23:13:54 <Vorpal> actually that isn't causing such a big problem really, for me it is the coordination that fails
23:14:13 <Vorpal> wrt releasing shift and whatever key I want to move
23:14:21 <Vorpal> anyway, yeah I gave up
23:14:44 <Vorpal> still not as tricky as qwop, I actually got a few letters up in this game
23:14:57 <itidus21> Gregor: i wonder what unimplemented games foddy has planned...
23:15:08 <Vorpal> what was that weird game I saw recently...
23:15:37 <itidus21> cr1tikal on youtube seems to review all the weird games
23:16:05 <itidus21> yeah ... i have strange tastes
23:16:12 <itidus21> he did 2 attempted lets plays of oregon trail
23:16:45 <Vorpal> what is the issue with that game now again? I don't remember
23:16:51 <itidus21> his attempt at qwop is on wiki as a reference
23:17:24 <elliott> it's hardly a reliable source
23:17:30 <itidus21> well because he apparently triggered the chain of events that made it famous
23:17:48 <itidus21> he reviewed it, and then a famous guy reviewed his review
23:18:10 -!- MoALTz has joined.
23:18:32 <Gregor> Happy Wheels is pretty amusing.
23:18:51 <Gregor> It's not like a Foddy game though, it's a legit game that's not stupidly difficult or hard to play.
23:19:07 <elliott> i've forgotten how to use git :(
23:19:20 <zzo38> elliott: Does the man page help?
23:19:24 <Gregor> elliott: http://hg-git.github.com/
23:19:31 <elliott> Gregor: that'd be even worse, I'd have to use hg
23:22:14 <Vorpal> Hm aesthetically Happy Wheels is one of the uglier games I can think of
23:22:47 <itidus21> elliott: i would say try water incase of dehydration, try getting a good temperature, try sugary if your blood sugar is low, some weird woman suggested protein for headaches
23:22:49 <elliott> note: b438b77489bdf288300303b2d1428781f964b8c3
23:24:57 <itidus21> visiting the toilet might also help
23:24:58 <Gregor> Also, reciting sequences of hexadecimal digits in a loud, droning monotone is good for headaches.
23:27:40 <Vorpal> I wonder if there is cvs-git...
23:27:57 <itidus21> looking at pinup girls may potentially help too, but this is probably a last resort
23:28:04 <Vorpal> (or git-cvs, that would be amazing too)
23:28:40 <Vorpal> elliott, and if nothing else helps you could always use headache medicine.
23:28:49 <Vorpal> usually rather unhealthy though
23:28:59 <itidus21> lol vorpal, you and your wild ideas...
23:29:11 <Vorpal> itidus21, yeah, I like to think out of the box sometime
23:31:39 <itidus21> if you need a distraction empty your wallet into a garbage bag full of rubbish, shake it about, and then try and retrieve all your items
23:32:58 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:33:11 <Vorpal> itidus21, you could also try dropping a needle into a haystack. Then stir it thoroughly and try to locate the needle again.
23:33:57 <itidus21> well you just wouldn't have sufficient motivation
23:34:34 <Gregor> "garbage bag full of rubbish" <-- what dialect has garbage bags full of rubbish ...
23:34:38 <elliott> monqy: oh you're playing again!
23:34:46 <Vorpal> itidus21, what if it was a very valuable needle? Maybe a collector item, worth a few thousand euros to the right buyer?
23:35:11 <Gregor> Really? Hm. elliott: Are they "garbage bags" in the UK?
23:35:24 <elliott> Gregor: I doubt it. But I really don't know my own dialect any more, sorry.
23:35:42 <elliott> Gregor: The internet has mixed them all up for me.
23:35:50 <elliott> monqy: did i miss anything exciting :(
23:36:07 <elliott> monqy: did I miss anything unexciting
23:36:27 <Gregor> I wonder what the bags are in Canada ... I know the bins and actual detritus are litter, which is not only an uncommon word but a different meaning in every other dialect.
23:36:28 <elliott> monqy: what unexciting things did i miss :'(
23:36:33 <elliott> Gregor: Filled with milk, that's what.
23:36:52 <monqy> osme slime critters and stuff
23:37:17 <elliott> he means some slime creatures hth
23:37:29 <Vorpal> I just found the typo funny
23:37:52 <Vorpal> elliott, and where can I see this?
23:37:57 <elliott> telnet light.bitprayer.com, watch squarelos
23:38:23 <elliott> black background (but crawl sets that itself)
23:38:42 <Vorpal> elliott, well I'm going to have to use putty atm. Here goes nothing...
23:38:52 <elliott> there's no unicode or anything, it should work fine
23:39:08 <elliott> monqy: maybe you should train armour and dodindg etc
23:39:42 <monqy> no use for aermour
23:39:56 <Vorpal> elliott, how do I send mail to the player in this game? That is always fun in nethack
23:40:05 <elliott> Vorpal: the server can't do that yet
23:40:08 <elliott> the file location is messed up
23:40:15 <elliott> you can press "m" to pretend
23:40:18 <elliott> you need to register an account though
23:40:42 <Vorpal> is there a secure version of it then?
23:41:16 <Vorpal> elliott, I don't know his password?
23:41:25 <elliott> monqy: what's squarelos' password
23:41:35 <Vorpal> that would be silly :P
23:41:56 <monqy> i'll be right back
23:42:13 <elliott> Vorpal: you didn't even get to see the wonders of crawl's autoexplore!
23:42:23 <Vorpal> need to be up early tomorrow, expecting a call by 8:00 tomorrow
23:42:36 <Vorpal> well, 8:00 or later, can't afford to miss it
23:42:55 <elliott> what kind of job starts at 8:00
23:43:05 <Vorpal> elliott, most normal ones
23:43:21 <Vorpal> 8:00-17:00 is the normal work hours
23:43:37 <Vorpal> (anyway I won't start until a few weeks later)
23:44:14 <Vorpal> elliott, you are in for a BIG surprise later :P
23:50:25 <itidus21> he means the worst possible interpretation!
23:54:25 <olsner> Vorpal is in hexham, gearing up for a home invasion
23:54:46 <elliott> the helsinki army will potect us
23:57:37 <olsner> they probably only protect people who say it right the first time
23:58:04 <shachaf> What abstracts the pattern foo [] = undefined; foo [x] = x; foo (x:x':xs) = foo (...x...x'...xs)?
23:58:10 <olsner> enjoy your invaded home(s)