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00:19:51 <zzo38> readFile' = readFile >=> liftA2 seq (length :: String -> Int) return; -- It appears to work??
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00:52:34 <BlueProtoman> I'm using C++11 to write a program, and I'm using the new constructor inheritance feature. The base class is Brainfuck, and the derived class is Brainfuck_X1. Problem is, when I call "using Brainfuck::Brainfuck", my compiler gives me the error "Brainfuck::Brainfuck names constructor". Any tips?
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04:40:23 <zzo38> ... GUI: Grab the User In-the-face
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06:20:27 <zzo38> If you can read this, thank your teachers.
06:23:03 <zzo38> If you can read this, you aren't blind.
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06:24:04 <pikhq_> (sore wo yomeba, dare in arigatai ka?)[sore wo yomehà, tàre ni arikàtai ka?] (If you can read this, who should you be thankful towards?)
06:24:10 <zzo38> (Unless you used a braille terminal or computer speech or whatever)
06:36:47 <Taneb> What do you call functions that take 2 inputs?
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06:44:18 <Taneb> zzo38, I can't find an example of reSigned differing from transInt
06:47:16 <shachaf> zzo38: Should I resent my teachers if I can't read that?
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07:06:44 <lambdabot> quintopia: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
07:06:48 <zzo38> Taneb: Sorry I may have made a mistake; I put it there for the different ways range errors would happen but I don't know if they would cause the same range error?
07:07:14 <zzo38> shachaf: That is your choice.
07:08:49 <Taneb> transInt (255 :: Word8) :: Int8 == reSigned (255 :: Word8) :: Int8
07:09:20 <zzo38> Taneb: O, so that works. Then there is no reason for both; I may remove reSigned
07:09:23 <Taneb> transInt (-128 :: Int8) :: Word8 == reSigned (-128 :: Int8) :: Word8 == 128
07:10:25 <zzo38> quintopia: I sometimes get money from government and sometimes I do individual job for someone to earn money or barter
07:11:03 <zzo38> What does BTC mean?
07:11:20 <zzo38> Taneb: Don't bother reSigned; just use transInt and I will remove reSigned in the next version
07:11:43 <Taneb> At some point I need to move all my documentation to the newest version, I'm writing it in 2.0
07:12:05 <zzo38> quintopia: No, I don't use that.
07:12:27 <zzo38> Taneb: I will just merge it with whatever changes I make and release that
07:12:48 <Taneb> I'll move it to 3.1 first
07:12:58 <Taneb> Can you explain what getBits does to me?
07:13:14 <Taneb> Or rather, can you explain, to me, what getBits does?
07:17:36 <zzo38> Taneb: Receive the range of bits by high and low specification.
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07:21:14 <zzo38> getBits 3 4 to retrieve low 4 bits, getBits 7 4 to retrieve the next 4 bits after lowest one, etc.
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07:37:32 <zzo38> I will sleep now. Continue to write your question/comment I will review the logs tomorrow.
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07:49:39 <quintopia> @tell ais523 skyscraper sits there with the enemy doing a fake triplock for hundreds of cycles. sure that is ample opportunity to guess polarity and put the last decoys in the direction that costs them the most time?
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10:12:14 <fizzie> Dwarves say "Lali-ho!".
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10:17:01 <itidus20> trust someone with a final fantasy id to understand a final fantasy reference!
10:18:03 <nortti> who has a final fantasy if?
10:18:07 <itidus20> the game of chat trivia isn't as fun when nearly all facts can be obtained from google
10:18:29 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidus
10:18:29 <lambdabot> Title: Tidus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
10:19:56 <itidus20> the words final fantasy appears four times in the first paragrah on that page!
10:30:07 <fizzie> FF4 is what I was thinking of, yes, though I am under the impression it's been at least in one of the earlier games, at least in the Japanese text. And in FF9 they say "Rally-Ho".
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10:33:58 <itidus20> In reality I'm not very clued in about final fantasy games.
10:34:24 <itidus20> If 100 is the maximum one can know about final fantasy games, I suppose I'm a 3.
10:35:26 <fizzie> You can measure that by taking the Official Final Fantasy Examination. (Okay, not really.)
10:36:02 <itidus20> it depends how accurate my statement is
10:36:31 <itidus20> unfortunately from a certain point of view a human can only have an infinitessimally small knowledge of final fantasy
10:36:43 <itidus20> just like one cannot know everything about chess
10:36:43 <fizzie> Square-Enix should arrange some sort of a thing where you go to a room in their offices and take a monitored multiple-choice test.
10:37:46 <itidus20> for example, part of the knowledge would be the ability to sit in a room with no information other than whats in your head, and write a complete source code to every final fantasy game ever made
10:38:05 <itidus20> including all graphics and sounds
10:39:20 <fizzie> There's an officially licensed energy drink called "Final Fantasy Potion" that was released as part of the marketing of FFXII.
10:39:44 <fizzie> It's "an herb-drink containing such ingredients as royal jelly, propolis extract, elderberry, chamomile, sage, thyme, hyssop, fennel, marjoram, rosemary, basil, Melissa, carbonated water, caffeine, and artificial coloring. The drink had a unique taste; it was very sweet, but at the same time possessed a bitter herbal aftertaste."
10:41:15 <itidus20> i know the same is true of every game though (as what I just said)
10:41:27 <fizzie> I see they've also made a FFVII themed version of Potion for that game's 10-year anniversary.
10:41:54 <itidus20> but like, a game such as Super Mario Bros.. it would actually be concievable that someone could memorize how to code a replica of that game with complete graphics
10:42:20 <itidus20> not completely perfectly though
10:42:39 <nortti> yeah. all the bugs wouldn't be there
10:42:41 <itidus20> unless it was a savant... then god only knows what is possible
10:43:47 <itidus20> (begins wandering off the topic path...)
10:44:44 <itidus20> well having said that I understand that with project MKULTRA they studied whether they could hypnotize people into memorizing documents after briefly viewing them, and recalling the contents
10:51:48 <fizzie> SMB1 rom is I think 256kbit, so about 79000 decimal digits when represented in that base; digits of pi have been memorized approximately that far. (Guinness record 67890 digits, some reports for 100000, and one guy claims 30 million digits, but obviously didn't list them all; they just asked for random sequences, so it might be a bit dubious.)
10:53:18 <fizzie> (Anyway, there might be large amounts of easier-to-remember material in there.)
10:54:19 <fizzie> Long time to type it all down, though.
10:55:15 <fizzie> It apparently took the Guinness record holder a bit over 24 hours to recite the 67890 digits.
10:57:25 <itidus20> this version of smb1 is 40,976 bytes
10:57:57 <itidus20> i don't know how they figure that :P
10:58:24 <fizzie> Well, that's a bit more than 256kbit, but maybe it's just the format. Anyway, same ballpark.
10:58:47 <itidus20> yeah.. i should look up a more authoritative source
11:01:45 <itidus20> ahh.. this website says it's a 320-kilobit cartridge
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11:02:26 <itidus20> "the game of chat trivia isn't as fun when nearly all facts can be obtained from google"
11:03:10 <fizzie> Hokay. Well, then. At least it's not orders of magnitude more. (I couldn't find the size very fast, so gave up.)
11:04:59 <itidus20> how does one go about calculating the number of decimal digits based on the number of kilobits?
11:05:16 <itidus20> maybe i should solve this myself
11:05:55 <fizzie> Divide the bits by log_2(10).
11:06:09 <itidus20> oh. yeah i was about to say that..
11:09:19 <fizzie> 2^n = 2^(log_2(10)*n/log_2(10)) = (2^log_2(10))^(n/log_2(10)) = 10^(n/log_2(10)) to be explicit about it.
11:12:02 <itidus20> so math is useful for something other than torturing children after all
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11:13:00 <fizzie> The Gameboy Super Mario Land is apparently a 512-kilobit thing, that's kinda funny. It's got less levels and colors and all that.
11:13:29 <itidus20> i guess that's the tidus-fizzie number.. the number of decimal digits required to memorize a complete nintendo game
11:14:16 <itidus20> i suppose, that, it's probably been independantly discovered somewhere out there
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11:17:09 <fizzie> Bah, that Mario wiki doesn't list cartridge size for the non-Super Mario Bros game, or the NES Donkey Kong port. But I wouldn't be surprised if they were smaller.
11:17:14 <itidus20> the rom file seems to contain 327,808 bits
11:17:54 <itidus20> however that is the EU version
11:19:58 <fizzie> 327680 is what 320 kibibits is, the leftover 16 bytes coud be just headers.
11:22:39 <fizzie> According to IGN's list, Duck Hunt came on a 192 kilobit cartridge. That's less than 60k decimal digits, even the lame Guinness pi guy could do that.
11:23:08 <itidus20> so donkey kong and duckhunt same
11:24:03 <itidus20> (24,592kb * 8) / 1024 = 192.125 kilobit cart
11:24:56 <fizzie> 24592kb? That's quite a lot.
11:25:46 <itidus20> phew.. ((24592 * 8)-128) / 1024 = 192
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11:26:50 <Taneb> This is what happens when you try a new client without closing your old one
11:27:02 <fizzie> That was a confusing join sequence.
11:27:15 <fizzie> Now your NAME is KNOWN.
11:27:43 <fizzie> Or at least someone's name.
11:27:45 <ion> YOUR COMPUTER IS BROADCASTING A NAME
11:27:51 <Taneb> My name... was already known by most of the channel?
11:28:04 <ion> taneb: Also, anyone who runs /whois. :-)
11:28:07 <Taneb> So is elliott's, for that matter
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11:28:17 <ion> Yes. elliott’s real name is Eliot.
11:28:47 <itidus20> ok my name is Scott .. now that it is read it cannot be unread
11:29:51 <itidus20> fizzie, the biggest nes rom putting aside action52 turns out to be a game i have never heard of name Metal Slader Glory
11:30:27 <itidus20> well when i say biggest that is in terms of compressed
11:30:42 <fizzie> I read that as "Metal Slander Glory", that sounded even more exciting.
11:31:02 <fizzie> Metal Libel and Slander Glory.
11:32:25 <itidus20> god... what could it be.. how could it go under the radar
11:33:21 <olsner> looks like it has a lot of pictures
11:33:37 <olsner> some kind of slideshow game
11:34:16 <Taneb> Apparently it took so long to develope...
11:34:25 <Taneb> That when it was released, the SNES was out
11:35:27 <Taneb> Can anyone tell me if it is possible to run more than one application from a single terminal at once, and tab between them or something?
11:36:58 <fizzie> "Maximum manufactured ROM Size
11:36:58 <fizzie> The largest single NES game that I know of is Dragonquest 4 / Dragon Warrior 4. It has 1 megabyte of program ROM. Also, the Japanese game Metal Slader Glory has 512K of PRG and 512K of CHR ROM, making it also a full megabyte. Several pirate/unlicenced Famicom games are also pretty large.
11:37:04 <fizzie> Minimum manufactured ROM Size
11:37:06 <fizzie> Although the .NES fileformat deems 16K PRG ROM games as the minimum, there have been some 8K games manufactured, such as Galaxian. Later on, skilled programmers have learned to squeeze better code into even less memory, but nowadays most are probably dead.
11:37:12 <fizzie> From http://nocash.emubase.de/everynes.htm#cartridgeinfo
11:38:15 <fizzie> Taneb: Why not just run screen/some screen-alike?
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11:40:41 <Taneb> I'm seeing if I can survive without a GUI
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11:49:58 <elliott> Someone remind me how MOOs do pronouns. (That is, the specific list of words they decompose a pronoun set into.)
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11:50:31 <elliott> fizzie: Here, I nominate you.
11:50:52 <elliott> 11:28:47: <itidus20> ok my name is Scott .. now that it is read it cannot be unread
11:50:56 <elliott> itidus20: Nnnno. It's itidus.
11:58:48 <fizzie> I don't know about cow pronouns.
12:00:10 <ion> I love the mutated cow special encounter in Fallout.
12:03:26 <elliott> fizzie: Hey, what would you call the abstraction of hit points to things other than hits? "Points" is too vague.
12:03:45 <elliott> (That is, (m,n) where m <= n, m being current ?P and n being maximum ?P.)
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12:06:29 <fizzie> Uh. I don't know. Something about a bound, maybe, since that's what it has, but I don't know. GP for Generic Points. (Not really.)
12:07:16 <elliott> data MonsterStats = MonsterStats
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12:17:07 <HackEgo> Alheris: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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12:51:44 <itidus20> data MonsterStats = MonsterStats{ monHP :: !P, monMP :: !P }
12:55:54 <itidus20> lol "In games, score refers to an abstract quantity associated with a player or team. Score is usually measured in the abstract unit of points, and events in the game can raise or lower the score of different parties."
12:57:18 <itidus20> (gaming) A unit of scoring in a game or competition. [from 18th c.]
13:02:05 <itidus20> Meaning "a unit of score in a game" is first recorded 1746.
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13:07:46 <itidus20> the exact quote appears to be:
13:07:46 <itidus20> 1746 Hoyle Whist (ed. 6) 69 Points. Ten of them make a Game.
13:09:09 <itidus20> bah .. this fool didn't do his research very well
13:10:27 <itidus20> well maybe the research is ok.. however..
13:10:36 <itidus20> 1719 R. Seymour Court Gamester 75 He who reckons most in this Manner [either by greater number of cards, or, in case of equality, of Pips, Ace = 11, Court cards 10 each] is said to win the Point.
13:14:04 <itidus20> "The salient feature of a story, discourse, epigram, joke, etc.; that which gives it application; effective or telling part." ok, just get to the point
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13:56:23 <elliott> "A pecularity of the inPulse watch is that it has one button. Fortunately, roguelikes are turn-based, so by entering commands in morse code one can gain the advantage of the whole keyboard."
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14:04:42 <elliott> Taneb: if you want to do without a gui, then just use the console instead of X :
14:04:46 <elliott> (but I don't recommend it)
14:05:04 <Taneb> This is more of a "see if I can" experience
14:05:31 <Taneb> Just in case I'm sent back to the 70s and don't want to /completely/ terrify them
14:05:45 <elliott> you're taneb you will terrify them regardless
14:06:22 <nortti> elliott: it works actually pretty well
14:06:56 <nortti> Taneb: (spoilers: you can. I have been doing it for some 2 weeks for now)
14:07:09 <Taneb> I'm doing it AS WE SPEAK
14:07:26 <Taneb> I'm running the terminal thing that comes with Ubuntu full screen
14:07:32 <Taneb> I've got the GUI behind it
14:07:41 <nortti> Taneb: I am not running X at all
14:07:55 <nortti> actually I unistalled Xorg
14:08:12 <nortti> when I need X (qemu, hv3) I use xfbdev
14:09:03 <fizzie> I did mostly-no-X for some amount of years, some amount of years back.
14:09:36 <Taneb> I've got byobu going, with irssi, Dwarf Fortress, and links2 open
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14:09:55 <nortti> fizzie: what webbrowser did you run in console? I use link2 -g and I am trying to get netsurf running
14:10:13 <nortti> Taneb: do you use links2 with or without graphics?
14:11:06 <nortti> Taneb: do you have framebuffer working in tty*? do you have gpm?
14:11:29 <Taneb> Seeing as I don't know what either are
14:11:31 <nortti> what is output when you type links -driver ?
14:12:07 <Taneb> links is not installed
14:12:26 <Taneb> links2 -driver wants a parameter
14:12:46 <nortti> Taneb: how do you run link2? on all systems I have used links2 is started with command links
14:12:58 <Taneb> "links2 google.com"?
14:13:33 <nortti> Taneb: ? is part of that command
14:13:34 <fizzie> nortti: I don't remember. It was around the year 2000. I don't think links2 was around, or if it was, not very far.
14:13:44 <Taneb> No quotes or question mark, nortti
14:14:14 <nortti> Taneb: I meant my command
14:14:37 <fizzie> Matrox cards had a very spiffy framebuffer driver.
14:14:49 <Taneb> Unknown graphics driver p
14:15:00 <Taneb> x, fb, directfb and svgalib are supported
14:15:24 <fizzie> Taneb: Do you have a file called "p" there?
14:15:50 <fizzie> Yes. I mean, it sounds like the ? expanded.
14:16:16 <nortti> Taneb: good. your links2 has been compiled with framebuffer support. do you have /dev/fb* and chmod them 666 if you do
14:16:26 <elliott> Taneb: this is pointless since you are not using the console
14:17:31 <Taneb> If someone tells me how to use the console, I'll switch.
14:18:06 <nortti> Taneb: how many lines do you have per screen in console?
14:20:43 <nortti> Taneb: also can you see picture if you try mplayer -vo fbdev moviefile
14:21:04 <fizzie> Oh, fbdev mode-setting was such a mess back then. 'fbset' was very kludgy.
14:21:28 <fizzie> Anyway, mplayer -vo mga was the snazziest thing.
14:21:47 <fizzie> I don't seem to even have fbset installed.
14:22:30 <nortti> I just use vga=794 as kernel boot argument
14:23:30 <fizzie> fbset let you mess around with timings and so on.
14:23:47 <fizzie> I think I had a novelty 666x666 graphics mode in there.
14:24:01 <fizzie> Rather non-square pixels though.
14:30:00 <fizzie> vesafb tended to be real slow when e.g. scrolling, too. I wonder if that's any better nowadays.
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14:33:09 <nortti> fizzie: what distro are you using?
14:35:44 <fizzie> Debian and Ubuntu, nowadays. Either Slackware or Debian in the no-X days, can't recall which one.
14:38:09 <fizzie> Taneb: Was it an adventure?
14:38:44 <Taneb> nortti: no idea on the lines
14:39:27 <fizzie> The 'resize' command will often tell you that.
14:39:59 <Taneb> 26 lines in one of the quadrants
14:40:15 <Taneb> Dunno for the whole thing
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14:41:43 <nortti> Taneb: if it is over 25 it is pretty safe to assume you have working framebuffer of some sort
14:43:33 <fizzie> Or just cat /proc/fb? (Or whatever it was called.)
14:44:13 <fizzie> Okay, technically that just tells if there is a framebuffer device, not whether the console is bound to it.
14:44:13 <nortti> it was /proc/fb (mine shows 0 VESA VGA)
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14:54:07 <fizzie> But is this in X-land, or the console?
14:54:20 <fizzie> 47 is a pretty weird number for an actual console.
14:54:45 <fizzie> Given reasonable video modes and font heights.
14:55:16 <Taneb> Actual console, I think
14:55:16 <nortti> Taneb: I need dimensions of you text console you can access with C-A-F1
14:57:05 <fizzie> Then you can use a MOUSE! Isn't that so 2000s?
14:57:32 <nortti> now try links2 -g -driver fb
14:57:33 <fizzie> Assuming things work out, that is.
15:01:18 <Sgeo> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/06/02/in-light-of-recent-episodes-cdc-makes-statement-that-zombies-dont-actually-exist/
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15:01:48 <Sgeo> 'I feel like the CDC, they know something is going on, one woman who disagrees with Kendrick said. Theyre trying to cover it up so nobody will panic.
15:01:48 <Sgeo> She also believes in vampires, and that this is all one big conspiracy.'
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15:08:43 <itidus20> Sgeo: well, something to consider is the false sense of authority one might get from reading "the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention a federal agency "
15:09:18 <itidus20> i mean, can federal agencies really be trusted?
15:14:01 <nortti> `run echo 'warning: "hi" is frequently misinterpreted as a threat' > wisdom/hi
15:14:09 <HackEgo> warning: "hi" is frequently misinterpreted as a threat
15:15:06 -!- elliott has set topic: waning | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
15:15:43 <elliott> someone name my simultaneous-turn roguelike
15:15:52 <itidus20> in a front-page article, claiming that the CIA had assassinated foreign leaders, and had illegally conducted surveillance on some 7,000 US citizens involved in the antiwar movement (Operation CHAOS). The CIA had also experimented on people, who unknowingly took LSD (among other things).
15:16:41 <itidus20> Nixon and Haldemann ensured that the CIA's #1 and #2 ranking officials, Richard Helms and Vernon Walters, communicated to FBI Director L. Patrick Gray that the FBI should not follow the money trail from the burglars to the Committee to Re-elect the President, as it would uncover CIA informants in Mexico.
15:17:06 <olsner> itidus20: the CIA also condones making love to goats
15:17:54 <elliott> downside: quokka is hard to type
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15:18:49 <itidus20> The journal Nature reported in 2005 that 70% of FDA panels writing clinical guidelines on prescription drug usage contained at least one member with financial links to drug companies whose products were covered by those guidelines.
15:19:02 <elliott> oh my god are you going on about patents again
15:19:47 <itidus20> CIA, FBI, FDA.. i am not sure who else there is to dig up wikipedia dirt on
15:20:29 -!- elliott has left.
15:42:55 <HackEgo> WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
15:52:12 <HackEgo> WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
15:52:18 <HackEgo> WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
15:54:04 <HackEgo> NoRtTi: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
15:54:30 <HackEgo> NORTTI: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
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16:14:16 <nortti> @ask Taneb did links2 work in framebuffer?
16:16:30 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo foo"]
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16:17:34 <lambdabot> echo <msg>. echo irc protocol string
16:19:39 <fizzie> It's the only one that actually has an echo.
16:20:14 <fizzie> No, that just prints the argument.
16:20:25 <fizzie> ^echo Does it echo in here?
16:20:26 <fungot> Does it echo in here? Does it echo in here?
16:22:00 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
16:22:11 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `;' \ bash: -c: line 0: `:(){ :|:&; }; :'
16:22:30 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
16:23:43 <nortti> hmm. HackEgo either solves the halting problem, has detection for fokbombs or just stops commands after some time
16:26:00 <fizzie> Everything has a timeout, though that might get stopped earlier due to other limits for all I know.
16:26:13 <fizzie> `run while true; do true; done
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16:26:41 <fizzie> I'm not sure if it says anything when it gets bored.
16:27:42 <nortti> well. I'll just have to find code that solves the halting program somewhere else
16:28:49 <elliott> hmm, to reinvent the wheel or not to reinvent the wheel
16:30:59 <elliott> that want to display on terminals
16:33:01 <nortti> reinvent if you can do better that existing implementations, otherwise don't
16:34:51 <elliott> the question is whether I can be bothered
16:47:49 <nortti> "That is a photo of squids off the coast of Japan using their own water farts to leap right out of the water and into open air."
17:47:59 -!- Taneb has joined.
17:48:25 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
17:48:58 <Taneb> Now I know I can survive in a texty mode like that, I will never use it again
17:51:07 <fizzie> Went to check my tty1, just for funtimes. Didn't know there's a "FATAL: Error inserting vesafb (/lib/modules/.../vesafb.ko): No such device" in there, that's funny.
18:03:20 <Taneb> FUTURE ZZO38: what does loeb do? I can't get it to do anything...
18:05:32 <Taneb> It's not exported, though?
18:06:54 <elliott> Taneb: http://blog.sigfpe.com/2006/11/from-l-theorem-to-spreadsheet.html
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18:13:10 <Taneb> I thought it was going to be about L-systems.
18:14:14 <Taneb> I'm not sure if I understand it, though
18:22:14 <elliott> Taneb: See also http://blog.sigfpe.com/2006/12/tying-knots-generically.html
18:24:21 -!- monqy has joined.
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18:38:11 <Taneb> Well, I still don't really know what loeb does, but I know that's my own fault, not the fault of loeb
18:45:34 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:46:30 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:46:35 <lambdabot> quintopia said 10h 56m 55s ago: skyscraper sits there with the enemy doing a fake triplock for hundreds of cycles. sure that is ample opportunity to guess polarity and put the last decoys in the
18:46:35 <lambdabot> direction that costs them the most time?
18:47:18 <ais523> quintopia: I don't get it, that's how skyscraper works at the moment
18:52:53 <zzo38> Taneb: I took it from some description somewhere; it can be used for spreadsheet evaluation
18:53:01 <Taneb> Yeah, elliott linked it
18:55:19 <zzo38> Also change the order of exports if you prefer a different order
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19:03:10 <Taneb> At the moment, I'm just playing with the Curry-Howard correspondance
19:03:17 <Taneb> I can't think what Negation is like
19:04:09 <zzo38> Not could be considered (x -> Zero) if Zero is uninhabited type
19:04:11 <elliott> where Void is the type with no values
19:05:13 <ais523> /* Load the data for one screen. Return its data index, in such a way that Splint can see that it's fully defined (data indexes themselves often
19:05:14 <ais523> aren't, so the return value is a more specific type than s->index). *mutters something about Curry/Howard* */
19:05:32 <zzo38> It also works if Zero actually represents the number zero, () represents one, -> for exponent, (,) for multiplication, Either for addition, then zero to the power of zero makes one and zero to the power of anything other than zero makes zero
19:06:00 <zzo38> ais523: In what program is that?
19:06:20 <ais523> zzo38: a platformer engine I'm writing
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19:06:40 <ais523> I'm trying to use Splint to prove there are no memory allocation errors in it; sadly, Splint is too buggy to make a good theorem prover
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19:33:50 <quintopia> ais523: yeah i just realized that it is what it was doing. i was confused because it was failing to do it in some places where it could have, but i realize now that is just a weakness with the polarity detection, not the strategy
19:34:48 -!- MoALTz has joined.
19:36:30 <quintopia> !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/TSOU
19:36:40 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 0.0
19:37:19 <Taneb> Maybe failure to read properly?
19:37:51 <quintopia> yeah i dunno. it shouldnt be much longer than the one that was already in there
19:38:19 <Taneb> Like, maybe EgoBot had an internet blip
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19:39:45 <quintopia> i bet it has to do with the massive failure my terminal had when i was pasting it in
19:40:11 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
19:43:07 <quintopia> !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/hCEj
19:43:10 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 0.0
19:43:34 <ais523> unmatched paren, or something?
19:44:04 <quintopia> how do i locate the character egojsout says it's at
19:45:18 <quintopia> what text editor happily says "oh here's the context around character 36866!
19:46:38 <quintopia> ais523: do you have a copy of the old version?
19:47:23 <quintopia> i think it'll be easier to make the changes again than track down the missing character
19:47:23 <ais523> quintopia: and I use Emacs, C-u 36866 C-f
19:48:09 <ais523> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot.hg/index.cgi/raw-file/93dc3dc7dad9/quintopia_space_elevator.bfjoust
19:48:14 <ais523> no need for a pastebin ;)
19:48:26 <ais523> (EgoBot has past versions online too)
19:48:51 <ais523> ah, OK, let me see if that's the one I have locally
19:49:00 <zzo38> Sorry my computer was off
19:49:27 <ais523> http://sprunge.us/idYC
19:55:29 <quintopia> !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/hgZU
19:55:32 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 44.7
19:56:03 <quintopia> a lot of other things i want to change, but its good to see that
20:01:19 <nortti> Taneb: "surviving" in a linux text mode is not hard at all. tell me when you haven't started X for 5 days
20:02:50 <nortti> it isn't that hard really. biggest change would be using links2 as your main web browser (that or compiling netsurf with it's dependecy hell)
20:03:04 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:03:18 <Taneb> For me, the biggest challenge would be figuring out how to use emacs/vi/nano/whatever
20:04:11 <nortti> if you can't figure out nano you don't deserve to say you can survive in textmode
20:05:02 <Taneb> It's surprisingly easy
20:05:25 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:05:46 <nortti> it is as easy as using notepad but remeber to use nano -w (or whatever disables word wrap)
20:06:36 <nortti> but for future terminal use at least learn basics of vi, emacs or ed
20:07:13 <fizzie> WebKitDFB or Dillo on GTK on DirectFB. Though I guess that doesn't really count as "text mode" any more.
20:07:46 <fizzie> I'm a bit dubious on how well the banking websites would work on links2 or elinks or w3m or whatever.
20:07:56 <nortti> well directfb means you cannot use other terminals when that program is running
20:08:22 <fizzie> It'd be just for special occasions.
20:09:08 <nortti> fizzie: also netsurf has better rendering than dillo if I remember correctly. and website rendering in links2 is not really that bad
20:09:56 <nortti> it is just a hell to get to build even under X and buiding for framebuffer is even harder
20:12:07 <ais523> <nortti> if you can't figure out nano you don't deserve to say you can survive in textmode <-- nano is unfit for heavy editing, it doesn't obviously do automatic indentation
20:12:18 <ais523> not even just "copy the indentation of the previous line" like gedit
20:13:13 <nortti> ais523: I know. I should have said "if you can't *even* figure out nano you don't deserve to say you can survive in textmode"
20:13:16 <zzo38> When on Linux computer I use vi
20:13:49 <nortti> I never use nano myself. I use either ed or sometimes vi
20:15:57 <nortti> but if I would be forced to choose between emacs and nano I would choose nano
20:29:43 <Taneb> I think I have just figured out what callCC is on about
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20:30:00 <Taneb> It uses what its output is going to be used for to find its output
20:38:31 <elliott> Taneb: you should read my explanation!
20:38:59 <elliott> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9050725/call-cc-implementation or just read http://blog.sigfpe.com/2008/12/mother-of-all-monads.html
20:40:20 <nortti> elliott: I reimplemented `WeLcOmE and properly this time
20:40:53 <nortti> `cat /hackev/bin/WeLcOmE
20:40:56 <HackEgo> cat: /hackev/bin/WeLcOmE: No such file or directory
20:41:04 <nortti> `cat /hackenv/bin/WeLcOmE
20:41:07 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ welcome $@ | python -c "print (lambda s: ''.join([ (s[i].upper() if i%2==0 else s[i].lower()) for i in range(len(s)) ]))(raw_input())"
20:41:39 <ion> `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ foo
20:41:41 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ: not found
20:42:06 <elliott> Man, I can't believe I wrote all that spiel on continuations.
20:42:51 <ion> `run printf "#!/bin/sh\nWELCOME | perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'y/!-~/！-～/; y/ / /'\n" >/hackenv/bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ; chmod 755 /hackenv/bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ
20:42:58 <nortti> ion: what did you try to execute? I only see blocks
20:43:04 <ion> `cat /hackenv/bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ
20:43:07 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ WELCOME | perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'y/!-~/！-～/; y/ / /'
20:43:16 <ion> `WELCOME foo
20:43:20 <HackEgo> FOO: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
20:43:20 <HackEgo> WhAt?: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.)
20:43:24 <ion> `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ foo
20:43:27 <HackEgo> ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ ＴＯ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ ＨＵＢ ＦＯＲ ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ ＤＥＳＩＧＮ ＡＮＤ ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！ ＦＯＲ ＭＯＲＥ ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ， ＣＨＥＣＫ ＯＵＴ ＯＵＲ ＷＩＫＩ： ＨＴＴＰ：／／ＥＳＯＬＡＮＧＳ．ＯＲＧ／ＷＩＫ
20:44:07 <ais523> the last letter is shaved off
20:44:15 <ais523> what about just removing all the spaces? I can hardly see them anyway
20:45:09 <fizzie> Man, that Python WeLcOmE is so overcomplicated.
20:45:11 <fizzie> `run welcome foo | python -c "print ''.join(c.upper() if i%2==0 else c.lower() for i, c in enumerate(raw_input()))"
20:45:15 <HackEgo> FoO: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.)
20:45:17 <ais523> nortti: the I of "wiki"
20:45:27 <elliott> It's also wrong, since it alternates on non-alphabetical characters.
20:45:39 <elliott> ion: That omits the "foo: ".
20:45:46 <ion> elliott: Oh, good point.
20:45:54 <ion> `run printf "#!/bin/sh\nWELCOME \"$@\" | perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'y/!-~/！-～/; y/ / /'\n" >/hackenv/bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ; chmod 755 /hackenv/bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ
20:46:12 <HackEgo> ： ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ ＴＯ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ ＨＵＢ ＦＯＲ ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ ＤＥＳＩＧＮ ＡＮＤ ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！ ＦＯＲ ＭＯＲＥ ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ， ＣＨＥＣＫ ＯＵＴ ＯＵＲ ＷＩＫＩ： ＨＴＴＰ：／／ＥＳＯＬＡＮＧＳ．ＯＲＧ／Ｗ
20:46:19 <shachaf> wE得るCOMEE得る得るiOTTA得ぬDiO得ぬ！
20:46:28 <ion> `run printf "#!/bin/sh\nWELCOME \"\$@\" | perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'y/!-~/！-～/; y/ / /'\n" >/hackenv/bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ; chmod 755 /hackenv/bin/ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ
20:46:41 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:46:45 <ion> `ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ foo
20:46:49 <HackEgo> ＦＯＯ： ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ ＴＯ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ ＨＵＢ ＦＯＲ ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ ＤＥＳＩＧＮ ＡＮＤ ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！ ＦＯＲ ＭＯＲＥ ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ， ＣＨＥＣＫ ＯＵＴ ＯＵＲ ＷＩＫＩ： ＨＴＴＰ：／／ＥＳＯＬＡＮＧＳ．ＯＲ
20:48:39 <ion> nortti: http://i.imgur.com/NMQKb.png
20:49:58 <fizzie> Check out our wiki, ESOLANGS.OR.DIE.
21:04:02 <Taneb> Also, callCC is pretty confusing... but useful?
21:05:02 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*9(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*17
21:05:05 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 20.7
21:07:43 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, you're the expert on brainfuck variants
21:07:47 <Taneb> Is there one with callCC?
21:08:40 <Phantom_Hoover> I doubt it, seeing as Brainfuck doesn't have local variables.
21:09:04 <Taneb> Well, I'm gonna go now, I've got an early morning to wake up to
21:09:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:14:11 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*9(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*17
21:14:14 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 25.7
21:16:27 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele [---]
21:16:29 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 14.3
21:16:37 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele [+++]
21:16:40 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 14.3
21:16:53 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele [--->+++<]
21:16:56 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 13.2
21:17:02 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele [--->+<]
21:17:06 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 13.3
21:17:25 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele >(+)*100<[---]
21:17:27 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 12.6
21:17:37 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_spin: 0.0
21:17:45 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele >(+)*10<[---]
21:17:48 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 11.8
21:17:51 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele >(+)*10<[---]
21:17:54 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 11.8
21:17:55 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele >(+)*255<[---]
21:17:58 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 13.9
21:18:27 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (>(+)*255)*5(<)*5[---]
21:18:29 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 6.5
21:22:49 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele [->+<]
21:22:52 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 12.9
21:23:07 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele [->+>+<<]
21:23:10 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 11.6
21:23:26 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 15.9
21:23:45 <nortti> that one is trying to commit suicide >.<
21:25:33 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_spin: 1.6
21:25:48 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_spin: 13.0
21:26:05 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_spin: 8.3
21:26:33 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_shudder: 17.7
21:27:26 <EgoBot> Score for david_werecat_null: 9.2
21:28:26 <nortti> how does that one win?
21:28:55 <nortti> also how do you repeat piece of code -1 times?
21:29:59 <oerjan> that's by tradition equivalent to the maximum, i think
21:30:25 <david_werecat> Well I know that null at least wins agains quintopia_zoom by having it run off the tape...
21:30:26 <oerjan> (the tradition _may_ have started out as a bug :P)
21:31:21 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (->+<)*-1
21:31:24 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 13.0
21:31:29 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (-)*-1
21:31:32 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 16.8
21:31:38 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (+)*-1
21:31:43 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 16.8
21:31:56 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (+>[-])*-1
21:31:59 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 12.2
21:32:04 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (+>[-]<)*-1
21:32:06 <oerjan> !bfjoust tykje (++)*-1
21:32:07 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 15.1
21:32:10 <EgoBot> Score for oerjan_tykje: 16.8
21:32:14 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (+++)*-1
21:32:18 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 16.8
21:32:46 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*9(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*5(>[>(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*12])*12])*12
21:32:49 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 14.4
21:32:52 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (-+)*-1
21:32:56 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 11.6
21:33:04 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.+)*-1
21:33:08 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 18.4
21:33:12 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.++)*-1
21:33:15 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 13.4
21:33:23 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.+++)*-1
21:33:26 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 13.1
21:33:31 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.++++)*-1
21:33:34 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 11.2
21:33:38 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.)*-1
21:33:41 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 8.2
21:33:43 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.+)*-1
21:33:47 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 17.3
21:34:01 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.+.)*-1
21:34:05 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 15.0
21:34:11 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.++.)*-1
21:34:15 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 15.2
21:34:18 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*9(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*5(>[>(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*12])*12])*12
21:34:19 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.++.+.)*-1
21:34:21 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 14.2
21:34:23 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 15.0
21:34:25 <oerjan> won't (.+)-1 lose if the opponent does nothing?
21:34:50 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*9(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*17
21:34:53 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 25.3
21:34:53 <nortti> !bfjoust perkele (.+>.+<)*-1
21:34:56 <EgoBot> Score for nortti_perkele: 12.6
21:36:19 <quintopia> david_werecat: it's interesting how zoom beats dreadnought and slowpoke and skyscraper despite not leaving any decoys and skipping some when it finds them
21:38:11 <david_werecat> So zoom assumes the enemy has decoys and tries to get to the flag immediately?
21:39:53 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*8(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*17
21:39:56 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 28.0
21:40:15 <quintopia> but it only assumes the enemy has decoys on long tapes
21:40:36 <quintopia> and it uses a new clear i just invented
21:41:03 <quintopia> so even against fast rushes (like space_elevator on short tape) it brings down the flag first
21:43:23 <david_werecat> The new clear looks like a fast clear merged with an offset clear repeated twice with different polarities.
21:46:25 <quintopia> it does a small fast clear, then a big offset clear...but assumes the decoy/flag won't be certain heights
21:46:47 <quintopia> it clears for a while, speed subtracts for a while, then clears some more, etc.
21:47:12 <quintopia> all the closing brackets are very susceptible to triplocks unfortunately, but i don't know how to deal with that
21:50:23 <david_werecat> If there's one place in the routine that would be a good point to break out of the clear loop, you can use null brackets {} to create copies of the clear routine inside the routine.
21:52:18 <david_werecat> Although zoom seems sufficently complex to make that very difficult to do.
21:56:27 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*8(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*16])*17])*5(>[(>[(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*12])*12])*12
21:56:30 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 22.2
21:56:52 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*8(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*17
21:56:55 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 28.0
22:00:45 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:05:50 <ais523> quintopia: how does that program work?
22:06:16 <quintopia> ais523: read the conversation above. that pretty much covers it.
22:06:23 <ais523> oh, I see, it's a similar idea to counterpoke (the longer it takes to engage with the enemy, the more decoys it probably has)
22:07:15 <quintopia> the only other innovation is the assumption that decoys are certain sizes: very small or medium height or huge
22:07:32 <ais523> I think this is a legitimate addition to BF Joust technology that will start showing up in more programs (the counterpoke/zoom thing)
22:08:11 <ais523> wow counterpoke has fallen a lot
22:09:27 <ais523> because people are getting good at confusing it?
22:09:38 <quintopia> space_elevator already does a better decoy build (and always has). space_elevator's weakness is its clear (still)
22:10:17 <quintopia> expect skyscraper to rise i think. that strategy is hard to counter.
22:13:32 <ais523> it's very easy to counter, just clear with alternating polarities :)
22:13:40 <ais523> surprised nobody had thought of that
22:14:08 <quintopia> oh, yeah, i think i did that at one point a long time ago
22:14:28 <quintopia> space_elevator used to clear with alternating cycle lengths
22:14:44 <quintopia> the double clear is still in there
22:15:06 <quintopia> the problem with alternating polarity clear is that people frequently use alternating decoys
22:15:34 <ais523> I don't use alternating decoys any more, they're too vulnerable to people detecting the pattern (even though nobody's done that yet; maybe I should)
22:15:37 <quintopia> so half the time you get the *worst* possible set of clears
22:16:04 <ais523> I'm rather partial to the "a block in one direction, a block in the other direction" pattern, which works neatly no matter what the opponent's clear pattern
22:16:14 <quintopia> in space_elevator i made sure i had an equal number of decoys in each direction, but not with a pattern
22:19:56 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*8(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*17
22:19:59 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 23.3
22:20:30 <quintopia> !bfjoust zoom (>)*8(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*17
22:20:33 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_zoom: 28.0
22:20:36 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
22:20:48 <quintopia> apparently you should assume 2 decoys on long tapes
22:25:09 <quintopia> !bfjoust careless_zoom (>)*8(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*3([+{(+)*12([-{(-)*30([-{(-)*20[-][+][-]}])%30}])%30}])%6])*17])*17
22:25:12 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_careless_zoom: 26.9
22:26:01 <quintopia> !bfjoust careless_zoom (>)*8(>[(-)*15([+{(-)*90(.-)*60}])%30(>[(-)*15(-)*90(.-)*60}])%30])*20])*4(>[>(>[(-)*15([+{(-)*90(.-)*60}])%30])*17])*17
22:26:04 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_careless_zoom: 0.0
22:41:41 <quintopia> !bfjoust impomatic_lessdumb (>(-)*8>(+)*8)*4(>[+++++[-]])*21
22:41:44 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_impomatic_lessdumb: 24.5
22:43:11 -!- nortti_ has joined.
22:45:00 <david_werecat> Wait, how is careless_zoom showing ties for everything?
22:45:44 <ais523> david_werecat: syntax error, probably
22:55:22 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: leaving).
22:59:25 <oerjan> unmatched } after second *60
23:11:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
23:11:46 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:55:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Man, the Google results for "set fire to the third bar" are really disappointing.
23:56:12 <Phantom_Hoover> They're all just corrected to "set the fire to the third bar" and none of them are about serial arsonists.
23:59:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Sometimes when I fantasise about meeting a girl who shares my passion for burning things I really wish I had a song to go with it, you know?