00:08:02 <zzo38> "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." -- Albert Einstein
00:16:44 <Vorpal> <ion> AngryJoe Plays Steel Battalion Kinect http://youtu.be/VxKRBUzElTU?t=5m45s <-- hm that is old
00:16:52 <Vorpal> I think I watched it last week or so?
00:17:03 <Vorpal> (I subscribe to that channel, it can be quite amusing)
00:17:50 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, where was that quote from?
00:18:21 <Vorpal> and yes it is funny. I'm not sure about the emo part, but other than that it is spot on
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02:21:43 <elliott> @ask ais523 actually, how can you use "1" in your presentation if you're using a semigroup? they don't have an identity
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02:22:47 <shachaf> elliott: Did you get the hblunmbndle?
02:24:25 <elliott> I haven't played any of the games yet.
02:25:30 <shachaf> I didn't ask if the games were good. :-(
02:25:37 <shachaf> (You haven't played Braid?)
02:27:39 <ion> It’s probably the greatest bundle so far.
02:29:10 <elliott> I haven't played *any* Bundle game.
02:29:12 <elliott> Yet I've bought most of them.
02:29:14 <elliott> Except for the crappy ones.
02:29:20 <shachaf> elliott: You ought to try Braid!
02:29:26 <elliott> (The Android one and some of the developer-specific ones and the Botanica one.)
02:29:42 <ion> I didn’t try Braid yet, but it seems interesting.
02:29:45 <shachaf> kmc: Right? I need some moralizing here.
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03:51:01 <HackEgo> 471) <fungot> tswett: last argument must be a cub scout!! have you made your money-drop today??
03:51:27 <elliott> That may be the best quote.
03:54:30 <elliott> copumpkin: tomodo is fax, right?
03:54:57 <copumpkin> I've guessed that before, but I dunno
03:55:03 <copumpkin> sounds a lot more depressed than fax ever did
03:57:25 <elliott> shachaf: A thing that lets you send documents through the telephone.
03:57:50 <lambdabot> let w(p,q)i=(p*i+1,q*i);d%(p,q)=p*d`div`q;(x:y:s)^d|d%y>d%x=s^d|0<1=mod(d%x)10:s^(10*d)in 2:scanl w(1,1)[1..]^10>>=show
03:58:14 <shachaf> > let w(p,q)i=(p*i+1,q*i);d%(p,q)=p*d`div`q;(x:y:s)^d|d%y>d%x=s^d|0<1=mod(d%x)10:s^(10*d)in 2:scanl w(1,1)[1..]^10>>=show
03:58:15 <lambdabot> "27182818284590452353602874713526624977572470936999595749669676277240766303...
03:59:05 <Sgeo_> I'm tempted to implement Lenses in Clojure
03:59:23 <kmc> has it been done?
03:59:38 <copumpkin> shachaf: a recurring character who shares some characteristics with tomodo, and also changes nick every so often
04:00:42 <elliott> copumpkin: (I think shachaf knows who fax is.)
04:02:01 <kmc> i would suspect it's been done
04:02:14 <kmc> which doesn't mean you shouldn't do it
04:02:22 <kmc> that never stopped anyone from writing a lenses library in haskell, either :)
04:02:32 <kmc> have you used Clojure much?
04:05:05 <Sgeo_> Need an example of useful Categories for #clojure
04:05:10 <Sgeo_> I mentioned rotations
04:05:15 <Sgeo_> And they're not going to know what arrows are
04:05:28 <Sgeo_> (I want to illustrate why comp should be general)
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04:15:23 <Sgeo_> ....I am an idiot.
04:16:16 <Sgeo_> I thought map was supposed to be general on the first argument. Because I am a derp.
04:16:22 <Sgeo_> I think I was thinking of return.
04:16:24 <monqy> what does that mean
04:16:41 <Sgeo_> As in, map's first argument could be more than just a function
04:17:44 <kmc> thlambdabot
04:19:04 <kmc> "hey here's this great interactive tool for learning Haskell! except we've filled it with useless nonstandard behavior for the sake of what amounts to an inside joke."
04:19:19 <kmc> from the right perspective this is quite a shitty thing to do
04:19:43 <shachaf> kmc: Hey, we're not in #haskell here.
04:19:43 <kmc> one of the things that wore me out in #haskell was constantly having to explain these aberrations
04:19:52 <elliott> cale's view has always been that it's not a pedagogical tool so it's kind of disingenuous to argue along those lines
04:19:54 <ion> “thambdabot”
04:20:09 <kmc> elliott: well, ok, but then people should stop advancing it as a pedagogical tool
04:20:17 <shachaf> elliott: Is #haskell a pedagogical channel?
04:20:28 <kmc> i would rather have the pedagogical tool than the toy, personally
04:20:32 <kmc> given the current channel composition
04:20:52 <shachaf> Peaker was saying something along similar lines.
04:21:08 <kmc> certainly the number of confused beginners has gone up since the channel was founded
04:22:01 <kmc> there are multiple ways to solve this problem, but in the absence of consensus on a solution, the status quo sucks
04:22:43 <kmc> what was Peaker saying?
04:22:51 <elliott> peaker says lots of things!!
04:22:54 <shachaf> That (.) should be (.) instead of fmap.
04:23:09 <shachaf> Because it just confuses people and makes it more annoying to explain things otherwise.
04:24:15 * kmc gets bitter
04:24:17 <zzo38> They should use Category..
04:27:10 <elliott> god bless you kmc but i have never seen you say a single thing about #haskell i would not classify as bitter :P
04:27:16 <shachaf> elliott: As in "a regular thing".
04:27:31 <shachaf> kmc gets bitter every day at noon and stays bitter until ~04:00 the next day.
04:27:41 <kmc> it comes and goes
04:27:49 <kmc> elliott: you must have ignored all the nice things I said about #haskell in #haskell, then
04:28:10 <shachaf> #haskell has a lot of nice things to say about itself.
04:28:14 <kmc> and i still have many nice things to say about it
04:28:26 <kmc> the people are by and large friendly and well-intentioned
04:28:37 <kmc> it's still the friendliest language channel I've seen, by far
04:28:40 <kmc> certainly for being that huge
04:28:53 <monqy> sounds like a nice place
04:29:07 <elliott> The best langauage channel is #monqys-crawl.
04:29:14 <kmc> to some extent I think the friendliness is a problem
04:29:21 <kmc> but it certainly is a virtue even if it has some negative consequences as well
04:30:04 <kmc> also the people there are fucking smart
04:30:14 <elliott> except for the ones that aren't
04:30:15 <monqy> even the ones that aren't ??
04:30:19 <kmc> and everyone really seems to like learning
04:30:24 <elliott> and who are indistinguishable to most people
04:30:30 <zzo38> It looks like many of them cannot answer my questions though
04:30:37 <kmc> shrug, i never got a feeling from one of the regulars that "this person is an idiot and needs to stfu"
04:30:41 <monqy> zzo38: at leat they're friendly about it !
04:30:42 <kmc> of course maybe this means I was the dumbest regular
04:30:44 <elliott> which means you have to come up with new and exciting ways to say "you're incompetent; stop misleading the newbies"
04:30:44 <monqy> zzo38: or so I hear
04:30:48 <elliott> without actually saying it
04:30:53 <elliott> kmc: well, they don't have to be regular.
04:31:07 <elliott> kmc: (I do get such a feeling from one or two. but I think they only became regular as you left.)
04:31:08 <kmc> elliott: people have explanations i disagree with, and can argue against, but I wouldn't go so far as to insult their intelligence
04:31:20 <elliott> by "incompetent" I mean strictly in the context of their advice
04:31:29 <elliott> but yes, it's impolite, that's why you don't say it :P
04:31:56 <kmc> (and by "regulars" i'm of course ignoring a few perennial helpless beginners)
04:32:16 <elliott> kmc: have i linked you to the Monad page on haskellwiki
04:32:32 <elliott> (I like how right as copumpkin gets dragged back the channel goes into full on meta-Haskell mode.)
04:32:52 <elliott> kmc: Did you know the author of the awful parts of that page once downvoted me on Stack Overflow?
04:33:30 <kmc> dragged back?
04:33:35 <kmc> is copumpkin punting #haskell as well?
04:33:46 <elliott> shachaf conspicuously said HEY COPUMPKIN DID YOU LEFT #ESOTERIC in -blah.
04:33:57 <copumpkin> I don't really pay much attention to #haskell these days
04:34:00 <elliott> and copumpkin was all OH HA HA I HATE YOU GUYS SO MUCH UURGH BUT I'LL PRETEND I JUST FORGOT
04:34:01 <kmc> everyone knows #esoteric is the real #haskell-blah
04:34:16 <kmc> you must have better self control than me
04:35:15 <zzo38> I do not know if mathematicians normally call the Finalize moand and the Initialize comonad something different, so I just called them by these names.
04:35:36 <kmc> if mathematicians call them something different, it's probably something dumb
04:35:55 <kmc> oh "dragged back to #esoteric" i see
04:36:02 <kmc> it's my fault we went all meta :/
04:36:15 <kmc> i will claim shachaf trolld me
04:36:22 <zzo38> kmc: Something dumb? Why do you think that?
04:36:28 <elliott> kmc: The term is "pronked".
04:36:40 <shachaf> kmc: "sry 4 trollding u :'("
04:36:46 <zzo38> I do not even know how commonly mathematicians would deal with these monad/comonad though
04:36:55 <elliott> (As in "shachaf thoroughly hecked my aim there".)
04:37:34 <zzo38> But they are valid for any category having a final/initial object
04:38:28 <elliott> SHIFTING INTO CHANNEL MODE #4: elliott asking whether he should sleep at unreasonable hours
04:39:00 <shachaf> elliott: You must sleep before the end of this hour.
04:39:13 <zzo38> Why do you ask other people if you want to sleep?
04:39:28 <shachaf> zzo38: He asks other people whether he *should* sleep.
04:42:34 <pikhq_> The answer is usually "yes".
04:42:48 <pikhq_> He also then ignores the answer, and often asks again.
04:43:12 <elliott> nobody has answered yet this time though
04:44:02 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28315
04:44:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21703
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05:44:31 <HackEgo> 778) <Sgeo_> Why does CL get called functional? <oerjan> it's sort of like how you call ancient greece democratic.
06:03:24 <kmc> don't tell the CL people that CL is functional
06:03:27 <kmc> they have that
06:25:31 <zzo38> What I mean by Finalize is the endofunctor mapping all objects to the final object; it should be easy to see how this is a monad.
06:25:54 <zzo38> There is only one possibility!
06:33:00 <zzo38> quintopia: Do you understand what I am meaning?
06:33:26 <quintopia> i dont even know what monads are silly
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06:34:17 <zzo38> Do you know what a category is (in category theory)?
06:34:39 <zzo38> Taneb: No, I mean quintopia, but you are free to answer if you wish
06:35:11 <Taneb> It's a bunch of elements with morphisms between various elements where composing morphisms is possible, also there is an identity morphism
06:35:37 <zzo38> Taneb: Yes, and composition is associative
06:36:51 <zzo38> There is an identity morphism for each object, which is identity for the composition operator, and a morphism (X -> Y) and (Y -> Z) can be composed to (X -> Z) (although by standard mathematical notation, the (Y -> Z) goes on the left)
06:37:42 <quintopia> eh feel free to use the concatenative style
06:39:53 <zzo38> So the object X identity morphism will be from X to X where id . f = f . id = f if f has the correct object it is from/to, and . means composition.
06:40:12 <zzo38> Any monoid forms a category with one object.
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07:58:06 <Sgeo_> <Raynes> borkdude: It's hard (nearly impossible) to, for example, use SLIME with both Clojure and Common Lisp. I suppose it's because you use an ancient version of SLIME with Clojure because it's impossible to follow SLIME development because they never release anything.
08:06:01 <Sgeo_> Taneb, read the line from Raynes
08:06:19 <Taneb> I have done, and do not realise the significance of it
08:06:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
08:06:39 <Sgeo_> The significance is it's harder for me to play with both Common Lisp and Clojure
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09:31:36 <fungot> Taneb: bit 4 off, and parameters associated with them. the scale selected is concert pitch, in order to change the routine
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11:31:41 <Taneb> In my new school timetable, on Fridays I alternate between two classrooms.
11:31:52 <Taneb> On the second floor.
11:31:56 <Taneb> Of two different buildings
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11:57:14 <Taneb> S5 Modal Logic is... I think it's a coapplicative, if that's a thing that makes sense to me
11:59:37 <Taneb> It has (<*>) and extract
12:00:48 <Taneb> No wait, it's an applicative comonad
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12:08:34 <ion> Wow http://youtu.be/p08_KlTKP50
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12:52:55 <Taneb> I find it weird that some monads are comonad
12:53:08 <Taneb> I guess I don't have a sufficient idea of catergoric dual
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14:06:42 <Labbekak> > [(x, y)|x<-[1..3], y<-[4..6]]
14:06:43 <lambdabot> [(1,4),(1,5),(1,6),(2,4),(2,5),(2,6),(3,4),(3,5),(3,6)]
14:08:22 <Labbekak> [[x*y|y<-[1..x]]|x <- [1..10]]
14:08:29 <Labbekak> > [[x*y|y<-[1..x]]|x <- [1..10]]
14:08:30 <lambdabot> [[1],[2,4],[3,6,9],[4,8,12,16],[5,10,15,20,25],[6,12,18,24,30,36],[7,14,21,...
14:09:58 <Labbekak> > [[x*y|y<-[1..10]]|x <- [1..10]]
14:09:59 <lambdabot> [[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10],[2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20],[3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24,2...
14:10:14 <Labbekak> > [[x*y|y<-[1..3]]|x <- [1..3]]
14:12:05 <Labbekak> > [[x`max`y|y<-[1..3]]|x <- [1..3]]
14:12:24 <Labbekak> > [[x`min`y|y<-[1..3]]|x <- [1..3]]
14:12:59 <Labbekak> > [[(x`min`y) * (x`max`y)|y<-[1..3]]|x <- [1..3]]
14:14:03 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude.
14:19:52 <Labbekak> > [[[x*y*z|z<-[1..3]]|y<-[1..3]]|x<-[1..3]]
14:19:53 <lambdabot> [[[1,2,3],[2,4,6],[3,6,9]],[[2,4,6],[4,8,12],[6,12,18]],[[3,6,9],[6,12,18],...
14:20:32 <Labbekak> how to generalize that to n dimensions?
14:38:28 <coppro> write it explicitly as a monad
14:38:42 <coppro> once you have the monadic construction, then you just fold over the dimentions
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15:26:57 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Julianc&curid=8485&diff=32739&oldid=32738 hmm...
15:26:57 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
15:27:15 <Taneb> That warrents a warning?
15:31:15 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:Julianc&diff=next&oldid=32739 not sure what the nowiki here is meant to accomplish :P
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15:56:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow, that reddit nuclear coverup guy went full-on conspiracy nut.
15:57:57 <Phantom_Hoover> I think his current theory is that the government are somehow covering up a massive, end-of-the-world solar flare in spite of the fact that he's used public solar flare data to corroborate his claims.
15:58:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Also that the magnetic poles started switching overnight and the magnetosphere is now gone.
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16:04:56 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm fairly sure the headphone port of this computer is broken.
16:39:51 <Taneb> Is it due to solar flares covered up by the government
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17:19:37 <Taneb> Does codo notation even make sense?
17:20:47 <elliott> flip extend :: w a -> (w a -> b) -> w b
17:20:58 <elliott> codo { x <- w; ... } where
17:21:17 <elliott> codo { x <- w; ... } :: w b
17:21:25 <elliott> not sure how it would chain, though
17:21:30 <elliott> oh, it'd just be left-associative
17:21:41 <Taneb> I'm gonna have dinner now, bye
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17:57:23 <elliott> Vorpal: (spoiler it's actually the last one)
17:57:32 <Vorpal> elliott, I realised that
18:02:27 <elliott> fizzie: You know the IPv6 2001: stuff?
18:02:30 <elliott> Was that assigned in 2001?
18:04:32 <Vorpal> I don't think all of 2001: is assigned, and the (current) RFC that describes that prefix is from 2006.
18:05:08 <Vorpal> and the possibly first one is from 2000
18:05:17 <elliott> I mean the 2001 IPv4 stuff.
18:05:29 <elliott> I just always read it as a year. :p
18:06:06 <elliott> People have IPv6 IPs that start with 2001: a lot because they don't have native IPv6.
18:06:16 <Vorpal> well yeah, I have that
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18:14:21 <elliott> I just mashed keys randomly. Could have turned out worse.
18:15:37 <Taneb> You have a plus-or-minus key?
18:15:52 <Taneb> Laptop keyboard :/
18:16:05 <Vorpal> Taneb, for me ± is altgr-'
18:16:19 <Vorpal> where ' is the dead key over é
18:16:26 <Vorpal> (it is next to backspace)
18:17:13 <Taneb> @łe¶ŧ←↓↓→øþßðđŋħjĸł«»¢“”nµ···
18:17:18 <Vorpal> (I did that using compose, no idea if it can be done with altgr)
18:18:24 <Vorpal> Taneb, that gives me »
18:18:49 <Taneb> Vorpal, I'd assume you're not on a British keyboard
18:19:28 <Vorpal> Taneb, but a lot of the altgr keys have the same positional mapping though. like ← being altgr-y
18:20:23 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
18:20:31 <elliott> Don`t you love it when people use the backtick as an apo`strophe?
18:20:54 <Vorpal> ¬ was altgr-shift-<same key I had ± on>
18:21:18 <Vorpal> well guess it isn't for you
18:21:28 <Vorpal> Taneb, try the key next to backspace then
18:21:42 <Vorpal> Taneb, that altgr-9 is the only place I have ] :P
18:21:45 <Taneb> Ḑoesn't do anything
18:21:59 <Vorpal> it combined with the D
18:22:06 <Vorpal> Taneb, it is a dead char
18:22:36 <Vorpal> Taneb, I couldn't even do that. my = is on shift-0
18:22:52 <Vorpal> and altgr-shift-0 yields °
18:23:22 <Vorpal> top row with altgr-shift: ¾¹²³¼¢⅝÷«»°¿¬
18:23:51 <Vorpal> and top row with just altgr: ¶¡@£$€¥{[]}\±
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18:24:16 <Vorpal> Taneb, that first char seems redundant there
18:24:39 <Taneb> Especially as I've never used it?
18:24:43 <olsner> Vorpal: 5/8 is what comes between between 1/2 and 3/4
18:24:55 <Vorpal> Taneb, on UK keyboard, what is the key to the left of 1?
18:25:04 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ,: not found
18:25:23 <Vorpal> Taneb, for me it is § and ½ if shifted
18:25:25 <Taneb> With a | printed on it
18:26:17 <Taneb> I've got a Windows keyboard
18:26:17 <olsner> where is tilde on those keyboards?
18:26:20 <Vorpal> I'm on a thinkpad (running linux)
18:26:31 <elliott> olsner: to the left of z is ` (~ shifted)
18:26:31 <Vorpal> for me that is shift-3
18:26:43 <Vorpal> elliott, is that a ` as a dead key?
18:26:45 <Taneb> Betreen ' and return
18:26:59 <elliott> Vorpal: no use for that for UK English speakers
18:27:06 <Vorpal> Taneb, oh right, where I have ä then
18:27:14 <elliott> well that's not really truw
18:27:22 <Vorpal> elliott, you might want to write French? Or loan words?
18:27:28 <elliott> is there anything with an ` accent in UK English?
18:27:33 <elliott> "café"'s is the wrong way around
18:27:47 <olsner> Vorpal: you can just remove all accents when writing stuff in english
18:27:49 <elliott> Vorpal: still, that's what the alt stuff is for
18:27:51 <elliott> and most people won't bother with it
18:27:55 <elliott> and dead keys are kind of confusing
18:28:29 <Vorpal> elliott, I mean I have ^ as a dead key, yet I don't know any Swedish word with that. There are a /handful/ of words with é. Can't think of any with ` though.
18:28:45 <Vorpal> <elliott> and dead keys are kind of confusing <-- not if you are used to them?
18:29:00 <elliott> Nothing's confusing if you're used to it.
18:29:02 <Taneb> Not using accents makes pate harder to understands
18:29:16 -!- oonbotti has joined.
18:29:21 <olsner> you should just spell it patay
18:29:55 <Taneb> But that makes its etymological relation with the word "paste" less clear!
18:30:46 <Taneb> But that's something else!
18:30:48 <Vorpal> hm is it worth learning Dvorak?
18:30:59 <Taneb> Better to lean Dvorak than to learn Romulan!
18:30:59 <olsner> in swedish it's almost called pastay
18:31:35 <Taneb> Vorpal, do you own a keyboard with Dvorak stickers?
18:31:39 <elliott> Or Colemak, if you want to be cool, like Deewiant.
18:31:57 <Taneb> Get one as cheap as possible for learning with
18:32:13 <Vorpal> elliott, how much does it actually help unless you are writing books though?
18:32:30 <Vorpal> When programming there is a lot more down time spent thinking about the code anyway
18:32:31 <Taneb> It makes keyboard shortcuts a lot more awkward
18:32:39 <elliott> Vorpal: You might see a minor increase in typing speed, but it probably doesn't matter much. The real reason to learn such an alternate layout is ergonomics.
18:32:58 <elliott> Taneb: If you're looking at the keyboard, you're doing it wrong.
18:33:00 <Vorpal> elliott, hm true. How much does it help there then.
18:33:30 -!- AnotherTest has left.
18:33:32 <elliott> Vorpal: Well, more stuff is on the home row and so on. Colemak's site has some statistics: http://colemak.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ergonomic
18:33:49 <Vorpal> surely that depends on which language you write in
18:34:21 <Vorpal> Colemak places the 10 most common letters of English and Backspace on the home row. <-- backspace on home row? Uh, that means a rather small key next to enter then or something?
18:34:28 <elliott> Well, Colemak is an English layout. I'm sure there is a Swedish variation.
18:34:33 <elliott> But I suspect the letter frequencies are comparable.
18:34:41 <elliott> Vorpal: Caps Lock is backspace, I think.
18:34:44 <elliott> At least Deewiant maps it like that.
18:34:47 <Taneb> elliott, if you're learning, stickers help
18:34:54 <elliott> (It's a better use for Caps Lock than Ctrl, that's for sure.)
18:35:10 <elliott> Taneb: They'll teach you how to type on a keyboard while staring at it.
18:35:11 <Deewiant> elliott: IIRC in Colemak both backspace and caps lock are backspace. I swapped them instead.
18:35:27 <elliott> Taneb: If you already know how to touch-type in general, you shouldn't have to start from scratch with training wheels.
18:35:45 <elliott> Deewiant: How do you pronounce "Deewiant"?
18:35:50 <elliott> Vorpal: "Multilingual – Allows to type in over 40 languages and to type various symbols, e.g. "pâté", "mañana", €, em-dash, non-breaking space."
18:35:56 <elliott> http://colemak.com/wiki/index.php?title=Multilingual#Swedish_.28Svenska.29
18:36:13 <Taneb> elliott, if you haven't learnt, you may not be able to even log in, without stickers or some sort of guide
18:36:14 <Deewiant> elliott: Up to you whether it's like "deviant" or with a w sound instead of v.
18:36:20 <elliott> Vorpal: There's also this https://gist.github.com/1293692 thing.
18:36:27 <Vorpal> elliott, doing that altgr thingy sounds a bit painful (in the first link)
18:36:31 <Deewiant> Although I guess it's (understandably) settled on the w sound.
18:36:31 <elliott> Vorpal: With Dvorak there's specific variants for each language.
18:36:34 <Vorpal> they are after all really common letters
18:36:42 <elliott> Deewiant: It's neither for me; I meant you specifically.
18:37:29 <elliott> Deewiant: I pronounce it as "dew" from "morning dew" + "iant" from "deviant".
18:37:38 <Deewiant> elliott: In an English context, nowadays, like "deviant" but with a w sound.
18:38:22 <elliott> How do you pronounce Sgeo_,.
18:39:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: No, with normal people methods.
18:39:45 <Taneb> Aww, I just say ess-geo
18:40:08 <Phantom_Hoover> (I did not waste all that time learning the IPA for nothing.)
18:40:17 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: HOW DO YOU PRONOUNCE SGEO IN NORMAL PEOPLE LANGUAGE
18:40:21 <Taneb> I pronounce Phantom_Hoover "fan-tom who ver"
18:41:08 <nortti> how is my ick pronounced?
18:41:16 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: THAT'S JUST WRONG.
18:41:27 <elliott> nortti: Like "naughty" except more tti.
18:41:35 <Taneb> "I like neither coffee nor tea"
18:41:59 <Sgeo_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Sgeoct.wav
18:42:05 <Sgeo_> This is almost how I pronounce it
18:42:18 <Vorpal> nortti, I pronounce it in Swedish with a slight Italian twist to it.
18:42:45 <Sgeo_> Except I tend to use a u
18:42:46 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, why is that on wikimedia!?
18:42:59 <elliott> Sgeo_: I pronounce it like that, but it's "ay" rather than "ee".
18:43:15 <elliott> That one sounds kidn of like "ski-oh". :P
18:43:21 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, I put it there a long time ago
18:43:30 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sqeo.
18:44:07 <Sqeo> Vorpal, the .wav sounds like it
18:44:12 <Sqeo> it's saying sqeo
18:44:20 <Vorpal> can't listen to it atm.
18:44:27 <Taneb> Who do you lot pronounce Taneb?
18:44:54 <elliott> Sqeo: No, that's definitely a "g".
18:45:33 <elliott> "Ngevd" is more interesting to pronounce.
18:45:42 <Vorpal> Taneb, I pronounce the Ta bit like in the Swedish word Tagg. The rest like in English. (Not that it tells you much)
18:45:57 <Sqeo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sgeo
18:46:29 <elliott> I recorded me saying a bunch of names but I sound like an idiot so you ca't hear it. SORRY.
18:46:44 <Vorpal> elliott, not used to hearing your own voice?
18:46:50 <elliott> It sounds stupider in a computer but.
18:47:04 <Phantom_Hoover> (I sound like a total prat, which is why I never listen to my own voice.)
18:47:23 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, isn't that because you are one?
18:47:31 <Taneb> Can someone give a list of names, and at some point I'll record me saying them
18:48:06 <Vorpal> Taneb, what if I give you one with non English letters in it?
18:48:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, brb, jumping into the sea to put out that sick burn.
18:48:17 <olsner> I've been planning on recording my voice a lot, getting over the discomfort of hearing my voice, and use the recordings to perfect various accents I will find useful in my career as a secret agent
18:48:19 <Taneb> Are they still Latin letters?
18:48:34 <elliott> OK Deewiant Sgeo Taneb Ngevd Phantom_Hoover Vorpal ais523: http://ompldr.org/vZThkag/Audio%20Recording%208.m4a
18:49:10 <elliott> Also I kind of fumbled "Vorpal" there.
18:49:15 <Taneb> I have no headphones and lose connection outside my living room
18:49:25 <Vorpal> elliott, that is your voice? XD
18:49:26 <elliott> Taneb: Your family will love hearing your name!
18:49:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Don't worry one day the helium feed to your throat will stop working.
18:49:37 <Vorpal> elliott, no it is better than what I imagined
18:49:38 * Sqeo doesn't believe that that's elliott's voice.
18:49:51 <Taneb> elliott, my name is neither Taneb nor Ngevd nor Vorpal
18:50:01 <elliott> If it helps, I usually sound more monotone than that!
18:50:05 <Vorpal> Taneb, I guess it is Nathan?
18:50:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I have the Posh Edinburgh Accent which makes me want to punch anyone else who has it.
18:50:19 <Taneb> YOU GUESS CORRECTLY, Vorpal
18:50:26 <elliott> Taneb: Download it, leave living room, play it, return.
18:50:26 <Vorpal> Taneb, BY THE POWER OF WHOIS
18:50:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Record yourself saying my name!!!!
18:50:49 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, you should record yourself then
18:50:53 <olsner> what, there are people who have non-lies in their whois?
18:51:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Hahahah I don't have a micro-- oh shit I do these days.
18:51:30 <Vorpal> I don't have a working mic sadly
18:51:37 <Sqeo> elliott, it sounds like a computer.
18:51:47 <elliott> Sqeo: You realise I am a computer, right?
18:52:35 <Vorpal> elliott, I imagined your voice to be sharp and screechy kind of. So my statement about that being your voice wasn't rude, it should be considered positive instead.
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18:53:12 <elliott> Sqeo: You're right, I used text to speech. Here's the REAL me:
18:53:28 <Vorpal> elliott, your recording setup had some issues with skipping too. Not sure how that happened when recording audio...
18:53:33 <elliott> http://ompldr.org/vZThkbw/names.aiff
18:53:45 <elliott> Vorpal: No skips when I play it back.
18:53:55 <elliott> Problem exists between Vorpal's network connection and ears.
18:54:06 <Vorpal> strange, they are in the same place every time
18:54:16 <elliott> Maybe I'm just not hearing them.
18:54:36 <Vorpal> some pops and/or skips
18:54:50 <Vorpal> elliott, I possibly blame pulseaudio then
18:55:01 <elliott> oerjan: Do you want me to record how I butcher your name???
18:55:04 <Vorpal> anyway http://ompldr.org/vZThkbw/names.aiff gives me [0x7f4f9c025c88] main decoder error: no suitable decoder module for fourcc `undf'.
18:55:11 <oerjan> elliott: you already did once
18:55:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit).
18:55:19 <elliott> oerjan: Wasn't that me attempting to get it right?
18:55:22 <olsner> Vorpal: you're doing it wrong
18:55:23 <Vorpal> elliott, so whatever that is I can't play it
18:55:31 <elliott> Vorpal: It's the OS X text-to-speech engine saying the same names.
18:55:43 <Vorpal> elliott, right, I wanted to listen to it though :P
18:55:54 <elliott> Vorpal: Try running flac on it.
18:55:54 <Taneb> I AM GOING TO RISK GOING INTO THE NEXT ROOM
18:56:09 <Vorpal> elliott, oh mplayer worked
18:56:30 <Vorpal> elliott, sounds a bit deeper than your voice, otherwise similar ;P
18:56:49 <elliott> ay-eyes five hundred twenty three.
18:56:49 <Vorpal> you are like that voice on a small dose of helium
18:57:00 <Taneb> Now to get my headset
18:58:10 <Phantom_Hoover> I just want to inform everyone that the correct pronunciation of Ngevd is ŋɛvd.
18:58:40 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Excuse me, it's how I pronounced it.
18:58:55 <elliott> The correct way is how I pronounce it.
18:59:01 <elliott> I don't know whether I pronounced it that way. Didn't you listen?
18:59:43 <elliott> I pronounced your name in it.
19:04:24 <olsner> no, it clearly starts with a ŋ
19:04:33 <Taneb> I've got a file, were do I put it?
19:04:38 <elliott> shachaf: <netogallo> So you can't do that if the monad isn't an instance of IO Monad, right?
19:05:13 <Taneb> http://ompldr.org/vZThkeQ/names.flac
19:06:00 <Taneb> I messed up Ngevd on account of having a sore throat
19:06:02 <elliott> I can't play FLAC here. :(
19:06:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
19:06:26 <nortti> Taneb: how quiet is that?
19:06:36 <Taneb> How quiet's quiet?
19:06:49 <Taneb> It's not especially loud
19:07:09 <elliott> Someone transcode that from FLAC for me. :p
19:07:13 <elliott> Or I guess I could download VLC.
19:07:15 <nortti> Taneb: I can't hear anything without turning all of my volume controls to max
19:07:34 <Taneb> THEN TURN THEM TO MAX
19:07:54 <Taneb> My mic was picking up a whole load of background
19:08:15 <nortti> Taneb: I still can't really hear what you are saying
19:08:46 <Taneb> I'll re-record louder in a more elliott-friendly format
19:09:00 <nortti> Taneb: when I turn my volumes to max I can hear that someone is speaking
19:09:18 <nortti> elliott: why not mplayer?
19:09:53 <elliott> I don't feel like remembering the arguments to amplify things.
19:11:29 <elliott> Taneb: You sound less like a computer than me.
19:11:39 <Taneb> That's because I am more man than machine
19:12:23 <Taneb> I'm so damn manly, I barely even count as a computer.
19:13:09 <Taneb> Simultaneously, I feel as if my throat is attempting to strangle me
19:13:52 <olsner> maybe it doesn't like that you're trying to breathe through it all the time
19:14:07 <olsner> would you like that? probably not...
19:14:56 <elliott> i breathe through olsner usually
19:14:59 <Phantom_Hoover> So VLC claims to have converted the file but is showing no evidence of having done so, for instance by creating a file in the new format.
19:15:24 -!- oonbotti has quit (Quit: oonbotti).
19:15:35 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I already played it, man.
19:15:44 -!- oonbotti has joined.
19:15:50 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean the file I made of me saying 'Ngevd' the right way.
19:16:16 <elliott> Just upload it in whatever format, man.
19:17:31 <elliott> hahahahaha are you transcoding from wma
19:17:38 <elliott> monqy: look at Phantom_Hoover.
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19:18:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Well I would have stopped if VLC didn't have the worst UI for transcoding.
19:19:43 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, what about audacity? That is a good program. I think there is a windows version too?
19:20:04 <shachaf> instance IO Monad where monad = IO
19:22:11 <Taneb> I use the same sound for the sh and ch in shachaf
19:23:00 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, you're right
19:23:05 <Taneb> Your voice is awful
19:23:46 <elliott> shachaf: You should record yourself saying "Ngevd".
19:23:48 <Taneb> I have a well-regarded video blog
19:24:04 <Taneb> With 8 subscribers!
19:24:05 <shachaf> elliott: I've never said "Ngevd
19:24:12 <shachaf> "; why should I start for the sake of a recording?
19:24:31 <Taneb> You've answered your own question there
19:24:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, did you record any other name than that?
19:25:03 <Vorpal> also Taneb's recording was really quiet
19:25:29 <shachaf> elliott: Did you know I have a GitHub resository with SEVENTY-FIVE watchers.
19:25:43 <elliott> shachaf: I like how it is JavaScript!
19:26:15 <shachaf> Because if you want to be famous on GitHub, your best bet is to use JavaScript or Ruby.
19:28:11 <Taneb> All of my github repositories are in the top-ten most watched
19:28:16 <nortti> I have github reposity with 1 watchers
19:28:24 <Taneb> (technically true)
19:28:29 <shachaf> -- This interface is based on @String@, and is likely to behave
19:28:29 <shachaf> -- unpredictably on codepoints above 255. The @ByteString@-based
19:28:29 <shachaf> -- interface in "Acme.Strfry.ByteString" is recommended for serious use.
19:28:36 <shachaf> Wouldn't it be codepoints above 127?
19:28:59 <Taneb> If it was being compared to Text
19:29:02 <elliott> shachaf: I don't think so.
19:29:05 <shachaf> Well, I guess that depends on what withCString does.
19:29:12 <monqy> ive never said ngevd but in my head i pronounce it ŋɛvd except when i slip up and accidentally pronounce it something more like ŋɛvəd woops
19:29:14 <Taneb> It's being compared to ByteString, so I guess that it wants a string of bytes
19:29:25 <elliott> shachaf: Can you test what withCString does for me?
19:29:28 <monqy> my head is a scary place
19:29:29 <elliott> Then send a... pull requests.
19:29:37 <shachaf> Oh, looks like you're right.
19:29:42 <elliott> monqy: can i visit your head
19:29:59 <Taneb> i dont need another map of your head
19:30:03 <shachaf> λ> withCString "ellíott" peekCString
19:30:12 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int'
19:30:27 * Taneb quotes the titles of B-Sides by Alternative Rock groups
19:30:31 <shachaf> I wonder whether kmc knows this.
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19:31:00 <shachaf> elliott: Also that snippet there is probably undefined behavior or something.
19:32:14 <shachaf> http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.4.1/html/users_guide/release-7-4-2.html
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19:34:12 <Taneb> Man, I haven't listened to this song in ages
19:34:26 <shachaf> strfry s = B.useAsCString s (c_strfry >=> B.packCString)
19:34:29 <Taneb> Probably because I don't really like it?
19:34:30 -!- Sqeo has changed nick to Sgeo.
19:34:36 <shachaf> elliott: Were you pleased to use >=> there?
19:34:42 <elliott> shachaf: I think I thought of you!
19:37:28 <Taneb> CAT PROGRAM IN HASKELL
19:37:49 <Taneb> main = sequence_ . iterate (getChar >=> putChar) $ return ()
19:38:26 <shachaf> elliott: LAZY I/O MONSTROSITY
19:38:26 <Taneb> OVERKILL IS THE BEST KIND OF KILL
19:38:27 <olsner> Taneb: that doesn't work anything at all like a cat
19:38:31 <elliott> main = getChar >>= putChar >> main -- since yours doesn't handle EOF
19:38:40 <shachaf> main = forever (getChar >>= putChar)
19:39:07 <Taneb> Just goes to show...
19:39:09 <Taneb> There's more than one way to skin a cat
19:40:01 <elliott> main=forever(getChar>>=putChar)`catch`\_->return()
19:40:37 <elliott> main=forever$try getChar>>=either(const$return())$(>>main).putChar
19:40:42 <elliott> :t forever$try getChar>>=either(const$return())$(>>main).putChar
19:40:47 <elliott> I guess "try" is only part of the new exception library.
19:41:11 <Taneb> main = forever (mfix (getChar >=> putChar))
19:42:04 <Taneb> Doesn't handle eof
19:42:40 <Taneb> :t (getChar >=> putChar, mfix (getChar >=> putChar), forever (getChar >=> putChar))
19:42:41 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> m b'
19:42:41 <lambdabot> In the first argument of `(>=>)', namely `getChar'
19:42:47 <elliott> getChar >=> putChar doesn't even type.
19:42:49 <Taneb> :t (getChar >=> putChar, mfix (getChar >=> putChar), forever (mfix (getChar >=> putChar)))
19:42:50 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> m b'
19:42:50 <lambdabot> In the first argument of `(>=>)', namely `getChar'
19:43:00 <Taneb> That's because I had a const in it
19:43:12 <Taneb> main = forever (mfix (const getChar >=> putChar))
19:43:32 <elliott> const x >=> y, aka x >>= y
19:43:38 <elliott> const x >=> y, aka const (x >>= y)
19:44:02 <Taneb> mfix . const may be like ID, I'm not sure
19:46:01 <Taneb> > fix . const $ "nepotism"
19:47:37 <Sgeo> Some code that I wrote some time ago to object to Clojure seems to just be saying "Clojure doesn't stop you from being stupid"
19:48:09 <Taneb> Overkill leads to obfuscation, which leads to FUN
19:48:39 <shachaf> elliott DOESN'T USE MONOSPACE FONTS FOR IRC
19:48:52 <shachaf> "true fax, from the tomodo department"
19:50:00 <shachaf> monqy: But did you know it before elliott told you?
19:50:36 <shachaf> before elliott was born :'(
19:51:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
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19:51:03 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:51:11 <shachaf> "i use irc with a variable width font" ———— elliott's first words
19:51:24 <Taneb> GOODNIGHT IF YOU CAN HEAR ME OUT THERE
19:51:28 <Sgeo> https://www.refheap.com/paste/4fd4fa18e4b0232cc152e706
19:51:45 <Sgeo> Me, maybe a year ago, objecting to Clojure not stopping people from being stupid
19:52:50 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:54:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:01:47 <elliott> OK, that was ridiculous deja vu.
20:07:23 <Vorpal> also does Taneb have connection issues?
20:12:01 <elliott> shachaf: Is there something like Applicative that doesn't have ordering?
20:12:22 <elliott> I guess you could just say f <*> x === x <**> f.
20:12:25 <elliott> But that seems overly strong.
20:16:04 <copumpkin> well, when people talk about commutative monads
20:16:16 <copumpkin> I suppose you could talk about a commutative lax monoidal functor
20:16:22 <copumpkin> haven't quite thought what that would mean yet
20:16:28 <elliott> copumpkin: In this case I'm just wondering because HashMap has:
20:16:35 <elliott> traverseWithKey :: Applicative f => (k -> v1 -> f v2) -> HashMap k v1 -> f (HashMap k v2)
20:16:54 <elliott> which is a very nice function (you can implement, e.g. an efficient HashMap lens with it)
20:17:04 <elliott> but it also exposes the underlying ordering of the HashMap
20:17:09 <elliott> just wondering if you can get the same benefits without exposing that
20:17:23 <elliott> (You do the Lens by using Cont and breaking out with the value, and when you get resumed with the replacement value, returning it.)
20:17:34 <elliott> (For edwardk-style lenses.)
20:19:30 <elliott> Alternatively, can you define a variant of Cont that's a commutative applicative?
20:19:36 <elliott> I think possibly yes, but I'm not sure.
20:19:40 <elliott> (It'd have to be restricted somehow, of course.)
20:27:10 <elliott> An SO question from Jon Harrop tagged [haskell].
20:27:18 <elliott> shachaf: What are the chances this isn't some partisan trolling bullshit?
20:32:29 -!- ais523 has joined.
20:34:55 <Sgeo> I don't know if it's my imagination, or if my Nook is helping me read by forcing me not to skim
20:37:37 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:37:41 <lambdabot> elliott asked 18h 15m 58s ago: actually, how can you use "1" in your presentation if you're using a semigroup? they don't have an identity
20:37:48 <ais523> elliott: I'm using a semi/ring/
20:37:50 <ais523> they have two identities
20:38:10 <ais523> (and both addition and multiplication, which interact with 0 and 1 like you'd expect)
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21:35:05 <quintopia> what does <value optimized out> mean
21:35:23 <elliott> it means the value was optimised out
21:35:32 <elliott> i.e. the code was optimised to not need that value
21:36:03 <quintopia> so if i turn off all optimizations, i can find out what it is
21:37:04 <olsner> it means that you have a bug in your program
21:37:06 <olsner> (otherwise, why would you be using a debugger?)
21:37:14 <shachaf> kmc: I got a sign from GOD.
21:37:34 <quintopia> the bug being "it doesnt work and doesnt give me any indication of why"
21:37:57 * quintopia throws olsner at the problem, sees if he sticks
21:38:14 <nortti> tip: convert bug to other type of bug
21:38:27 <olsner> tip: redefine bug as feature
21:39:22 <nortti> olsner: do you mean the microsoft way of handling bugs?
21:39:38 <quintopia> elliott: guess what this new scoring system does? it epitomizes equality and fair play by giving all competitors a score of 0! no more squabbling about who is the best, and no more chaos on the hill. it's revolutionary!
21:40:30 <elliott> quintopia: That sounds kind of egalitarian.
21:40:36 <elliott> I would change your name and move to another country ASAP.
21:40:53 -!- quintopia has changed nick to aipotniuq.
21:41:01 <aipotniuq> sweden sure is nice this time of year
21:42:00 -!- aipotniuq has changed nick to quintopia.
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21:56:33 <oklopol> push everything four salad salad
21:59:52 <oklopol> i can't sleep, whenever i close my eyes i start thinking about the ranks of countably converging cellular automata
22:05:36 <zzo38> shachaf: Sign from GOD? What kind of sign? Stop sign? Or the other sign?
22:05:45 <Vorpal> hm can CCDs degrade over time as to produce noisier images? When I compared a picture I took today and one I took ten years ago with the same camera under similar conditions the one I took today is significantly noiser. (Similar subjects too, large grey areas)
22:07:00 <Vorpal> both were taken with ISO 64. f/11, and similar times (1/500 and 1/450)
22:07:22 <zzo38> elliott: What other sign does shachaf get?
22:09:53 <shachaf> The Sign Panther also left me some signs.
22:10:08 <shachaf> LITTLE-KNOWN FACT: When I played _World of Goo_, I thought the signs were life by "The Sign Panther".
22:11:16 <zzo38> I know it is GOD's sign, but still that doesn't explain much.
22:11:18 <oklopol> but really they were death by him
22:11:45 <oklopol> and all the little goos when to gooey heaven
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22:54:30 <elliott> No don't play Portal 2 with PH he's awful.
22:55:00 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: OK, I'll play Portal 2 with you!
22:55:07 <shachaf> "i needed to go a while ago"
22:55:28 <zzo38> Do you know some things about 6502 programming, such as how I could add support for music subroutines to PPMCK?
22:55:39 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Also, elliott said he wouldn't even get around to it if I did.
22:56:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I'll play Portal 2 with you N units of time before shachaf plays Portal 2 with you if shachaf gives me it.
22:57:21 <ais523> portal 2 has an achievement for completing the game, then playing co-op with someone who has never played co-op before (or completed the game before?)
22:57:31 <ais523> IIRC, it's set up so it's theoretically impossible for /everyone/ to get it
22:57:36 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover just doesn't have any friends
22:58:15 <elliott> shachaf: i'll pay you $99999 for protals 1 & 3
22:58:33 <ais523> elliott: offer not valid when 3 is released?
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22:59:27 <shachaf> AND ALSO IT'S 0 instead of $9999999
22:59:44 <shachaf> "0: a number so cool, it doesn't even need units"
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23:22:38 <elliott> shachaf: Maybe I could play Portal 1... right now?
23:24:13 <elliott> coppro: Can my computer run Portal 2.
23:24:29 <elliott> (How good a connection, latency-wise, do you need for Portal 2 coop?)
23:33:38 <elliott> shachaf: Did you know I meet Portal 2's system requirements? I think?
23:33:44 <elliott> I'm not sure if this card counts as Nvidia 8600M or higher.
23:34:59 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, yes, but the thing is it's a Valve game so the start is kind of babystepping and you don't want to stop right as the pace picks up.
23:35:13 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: But I don't have time to play the whole thing right now!
23:59:44 <elliott> shachaf: Does Portal really only take two hours to complete?