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01:08:18 <elliott> 07:20:54 <elliott> 00:19:05 <ais523> quintopia: so you consider narrow wins as /much/ lower-scoring than crushing ones?
01:08:18 <elliott> 07:20:58 <elliott> quintopia: I think this is probably a bad idea
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01:08:19 <elliott> 07:22:02 <elliott> 05:07:06 <quintopia> ais523: i consider winning one tape length/polarity and drawing on the rest to be 1/42 as good as winning on them all
01:08:21 <elliott> 07:22:12 <elliott> quintopia: that's *very* harsh, and IMO goes against the intent of my polarity system
01:08:23 <elliott> 07:22:27 <elliott> beating an opponent should be considered atomically, without regard to the matches that make up that result
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02:07:08 <tswett> I suddenly wish I were writing this wiki page in Finnish.
02:07:27 <tswett> I want to say "this is a blog_PARTITIVE I wrote".
02:08:13 <tswett> Here we go. "An unfinished blog I wrote".
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02:14:22 <quintopia> elliott: yes. that is what you said. i, of course, believe you are wrong and that winner-take-all does a poor job of capturing the quality of a warrior. care to elaborate?
02:14:29 -!- quintopia has set topic: forking | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/HJWG.
02:15:02 <elliott> quintopia: because if something beats everything on the hill
02:15:08 <elliott> it doesn't matter if it draws most of its matches and wins one else
02:15:15 <elliott> it's still a really good program
02:17:04 <quintopia> is that so? i think that a program that that crushes all top ten warriors and loses by one to everything else on the hill is better than your hypothetical all-narrow-margins warrior
02:17:49 <quintopia> a good program is not one that can win on one length and polarity. it is a program that consistently wins in all conditions.
02:17:52 <elliott> i'll let ais523 argue this one
02:18:08 <elliott> but i strongly dislike your version
02:18:21 <elliott> the point of testing on all polarities and tape lengths
02:18:27 <elliott> is to remove random effects from consideration
02:18:28 <quintopia> ais523 said he thinks my version gives better rankings
02:18:33 <elliott> and smooth out such things
02:18:40 <elliott> quintopia: that doesn't mean it couldn't be improved
02:18:51 -!- MSleep has changed nick to MDude.
02:18:59 <quintopia> i think the winner-take-all property of the current hill is the number one reason it gives *poor* rankings
02:19:10 <elliott> <elliott> the point of testing on all polarities and tape lengths
02:19:10 <elliott> <elliott> is to remove random effects from consideration
02:19:11 <elliott> <elliott> and smooth out such things
02:19:13 <elliott> not to give finer-grained ratings
02:19:19 <elliott> think of it as a superposition win-or-lose
02:19:25 <elliott> based on all possible random choices of tape length/polraity
02:19:28 <elliott> which is what was done beforehand
02:19:53 <quintopia> it sounds like you are arguing my side :P
02:20:29 <tswett> Say that an "mbyte" is a digit in base 257.
02:20:52 <tswett> It is possible to encode 177 mbytes in 177 bytes and one bit. It is not possible to encode 178 mbytes in 178 bytes and one bit.
02:21:39 <quintopia> a program that draws on all but one tape length and polarity would have been recorded as a *draw* on the old system: the odds are just stacked that way. if you want to smooth out things, your scoring system should consider all tape lengths and polarities, not just the one length and polarity that happens to barely push one program ahead of the other.
02:22:25 <coppro> I cannot believe that there are MPs who have not missed a vote.
02:22:39 <tswett> quintopia: 257^177 < 2^(8*177+1), but 257^178 > 2^(8*178+1).
02:23:41 <coppro> (I also cannot believe that the house has actually had two >24 hour sittings this Parliament)
02:24:01 <tswett> This makes me wonder, how simple could you make a circuit that encodes 177 mbytes in 177 bytes and a bit, and then decodes them?
02:24:05 <elliott> quintopia: OK, I'm fine changing the behaviour of draws.
02:24:10 <elliott> As long as the result is considered atomically.
02:26:12 <quintopia> elliott: are you or are you not saying you are fine with letting victories count for more proportional to the margin of victory?
02:27:10 <elliott> quintopia: im ok requiring wins>draws or whatever though
02:27:18 <tswett> I like the way that densely packed decimal works, encoding three decimal digits in ten bits.
02:29:13 <quintopia> tswett: what do you do with the other .034 bits?
02:29:36 <oerjan> tswett: encoding/decoding is really just base conversion
02:30:01 <oerjan> between binary and base 257
02:30:20 <tswett> oerjan: that's one way to implement it, yes, but it's not very interesting.
02:31:09 <tswett> DPD is more interesting than base conversion. The decimal digits 0abc, 0def, and 0ghi are encoded as 0abcdefghi; the decimal digits 0abc, 0def, and 100g are encoded as 101abcdefg; and so on.
02:31:31 <tswett> Now just figure out what the Chicago rapit transit system "and so on" means.
02:31:41 <tswett> quintopia: as far as I know, there isn't any.
02:32:03 <shachaf> For example, encoding 178 bytes and 1 bit
02:33:03 <oerjan> tswett: hm ok so you want to replace that with 0abcdefgh and 1000000 (only one option for the 1 version)
02:36:51 <tswett> oerjan: yeah, if you're encoding just one mbyte.
02:37:07 <oerjan> tswett: no i meant you want to use a similar scheme
02:37:53 <oerjan> the 0 case looks trivially convertible that way
02:38:11 <tswett> Encoding two mbytes, you can say... let me use . to mean "grab a digit from a non-256 mbyte".
02:38:33 <oerjan> tswett: um i am thinking specifically of the 177 case, which as you say should just fit
02:39:18 <oerjan> well i guess you might have an induction which only runs out of spare room when you hit 178
02:40:22 <oerjan> shachaf: no that was 178
02:40:47 <shachaf> oerjan: Wasn't there an extra bit?
02:40:58 <tswett> Okay, so how can you encode 177 of them? If they're all non-256, you can encode them as 0 followed by all of them. If exactly one of them is non-256, you can encode them as 1, followed by eight bits to determine *which* one is non-256, followed by all the non-256 ones.
02:41:36 <tswett> The eight bits won't be "used up", however; you're just using them to encode a number from 0 to 176. If the number is from 177 to 255, that indicates that you have more information.
02:41:43 <oerjan> shachaf: yes, you have 117 bytes + 1 bit, and making that one bit 0 gives you the case of all mbytes <= 256 exactly as with that DPD thing above
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02:42:33 <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel.
02:42:39 <tswett> So, suppose exactly two of them are non-256. You have two digits you can use to specify which two: one (255-177+1) = base-79 digit, and one base-256 digit.
02:44:05 <tswett> So you can store any of 20224 values in your two digits. But you only actually need (177 choose 2) = 15576; the remaining 4648 possible values you can reserve for if there are three or more 256s.
02:44:36 <shachaf> tswett: Something is suspicious there.
02:44:45 <oerjan> tswett: right but this is not going to give a simple scheme for finding the prefixes
02:44:51 <shachaf> Why do you need the -- oh.
02:45:05 <tswett> I think this raises a question. What's the most natural way to encode a base-(177 choose 2) digit as a base-79 digit and a base-256 digit?
02:45:46 <oerjan> tswett: mixed base conversion >:P
02:46:33 <oerjan> hm the less headroom you have, the more complicated the scheme probably needs to be, and closer to base conversion
02:47:16 <oerjan> the fact that you _do_ run out with 178 might mean there's no simple recursive scheme
02:48:00 <tswett> oerjan: I'm guessing that there is a simple recursive scheme somewhere, but it doesn't terminate if you ask it to, say, encode seven base-2 digits in three base-5 digits.
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02:50:05 <oerjan> tswett: there is an _intuitively_ simple scheme ... for n 256-mbytes, just allocate the first prefixes of 8n+1 bytes which have _not_ been ruled out by choices for < n
02:50:23 <oerjan> it's just not obviously simpler to calculate than a base conversion, is all
02:51:05 <quintopia> `quote add <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel.
02:51:07 <shachaf> What's wrong with a base conversion?
02:51:12 <quintopia> `addquote <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel.
02:51:15 <HackEgo> 844) <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel.
02:51:33 <tswett> shachaf: they're boring, and they don't preserve the input bits.
02:51:42 <oerjan> so n=0 allocates 0; n=1 allocates 100000000 .. whatever 256+176 is, etc.
02:51:43 <tswett> Where "they" means "a base conversion".
02:52:02 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel.
02:52:17 <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS!
02:53:20 <oerjan> that scheme obviously uses the space as efficiently as possible, since only one bit sequence is allocated per mbyte sequence
02:54:33 <quintopia> `addquote <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS!
02:54:36 <HackEgo> 844) <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS!
02:54:56 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS!
02:55:10 <elliott> failed to follow quoting standards. resubmit for further consideration
02:55:31 <quintopia> what. i put the two spaces in where you like them. jeez.
02:55:36 <tswett> You know, let's take a simpler problem. Encode 19 bits in 12 trits.
02:56:38 <oerjan> elliott: the only violation is due to HackEgo's *poof* syntax
02:56:50 <oerjan> it would be misquoting to correct that
02:57:10 <shachaf> What's wrong with HackEgo's *poof* syntax?
02:57:23 <elliott> quintopia: the committee decided in error
02:57:29 <elliott> please accept our apologies and this free gift card
02:57:34 <HackEgo> 78) [Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> 'cuz it's pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :( \ 117) <fungot> AnMaster: to any airbus plane. 3 passengers sadly died the most awesome thing ever. \ 284) <cpressey> addquoting yourself? isn't that like commenting on your own facebook status? <Gregor> Yup, but I'm JUST THAT AWESOME. \ 341) [on Sgeo's karaoke] <not_nddrylliog> Sgeo:
02:57:35 <quintopia> elliott: that's why i resubmitted it in PM
02:57:41 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS!
02:57:47 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
02:57:49 <elliott> quintopia: good thing i have a log
02:57:51 <tswett> See, quote 78 is an example of... a class containing it.
02:57:57 <elliott> the committee does not accept insubordination
02:58:31 <quintopia> elliott: the committee has been fired by the comittee
02:59:28 <MDude> fungot: delquote 844
02:59:29 <fungot> MDude: never had a problem
02:59:39 <fungot> shachaf: ah kind like ocaml then... good idea!! why don't i post it to the lambda
02:59:45 <quintopia> `addquote <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS
02:59:47 <HackEgo> 844) <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS
02:59:54 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS
03:00:07 <HackEgo> 844) <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS
03:00:12 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS
03:00:16 <tswett> So, encoding 19 bits in 12 trits. We find the biggest obvious common subset: 12 bits. Copy it over. Now we have two sets: (19 bits, at least one of the first 7 of which is 1), and (12 trits, at least one of which is 2).
03:00:29 <tswett> So, uh, I don't know how to proceed.
03:00:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: NOW WITH EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/HJWG.
03:00:44 <shachaf> oerjan: Please kick elliott and/or me.
03:00:44 <tswett> Huh. What does `revert do?
03:00:51 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS
03:01:54 <quintopia> `addquote <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS
03:01:55 <elliott> tswett: Reverts the last hg commit.
03:01:58 <HackEgo> 844) <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> `delquote 844 <HackEgo> *poof* <shachaf> Ah, densley pcaked decimel. <shachaf> TAKE THAT, DENSLEY PCACKED DECIBELS
03:02:22 <elliott> shachaf: If you keep donig it, Gregor will just make HackEgo ignore you.
03:02:24 <elliott> You wouldn't be the first.
03:02:38 <shachaf> Y'all're just being unpleasant.
03:03:02 <monqy> just wanted to check !
03:03:30 <quintopia> delquote is a terrible feature. would prefer no deleting but with quote karma and quotes sorted by karma and random quotes selected proportional to karma :D
03:03:56 <HackEgo> 740) <Phantom_Hoover> oh jesus my mother is trying to ship bear grylls with miranda hart aerio;jghaeirugha
03:04:33 <shachaf> elliott: No. You're just being stubborn for the sake of being annoying. I'm just being stubborn for the sake of not being quoted there.
03:04:44 <shachaf> My ground is morally superior to your ground.
03:05:28 <MDude> So what if your name is replaces in the quote with [some guy]?
03:05:31 <elliott> in general, I revert people who are worrying with the bots idiotically
03:05:33 <tswett> I agree with shachaf's stubbornness. I do not agree with elliott's stubbornness.
03:05:49 <tswett> But let me suggest a compromise.
03:05:50 <elliott> I don't care about the quote at all, but you just delete evrey quote with your name in it, so...
03:05:54 <tswett> `addquote becal pckecibedecimacibedey d pakely pckensensly d dely decimecked pacimakecal dey
03:05:57 <HackEgo> 844) becal pckecibedecimacibedey d pakely pckensensly d dely decimecked pacimakecal dey
03:05:58 <shachaf> elliott: That's not true at all.
03:06:03 <tswett> Granted, my compromise sucks.
03:06:04 <shachaf> elliott: That particular quote is bad.
03:06:07 <monqy> why is everyone being stupid with quote
03:06:29 <shachaf> I don't really care about bad quotes in HackEgo *or* my quotes in HackEgo, taken individually.
03:06:32 <shachaf> I just don't like the combination.
03:06:49 <HackEgo> 581) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 624) <shachaf> Real Tar is GNU tar. <shachaf> You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 659) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
03:07:03 <shachaf> Those quotes are all bad, for what it's worth.
03:07:26 <HackEgo> 581) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 624) <shachaf> Real Tar is GNU tar. <shachaf> You just ignore whichever features don't make you feel superior enough. \ 659) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
03:07:41 <oerjan> damn end-of-line space
03:11:49 <HackEgo> 794) <shachaf> elliott: Apparently Rowan Williams is Primate of All England. <shachaf> CHECKMATE CREATIONISTS
03:12:23 <oerjan> i'd otherwise have guessed rowan atkinson
03:13:02 <MDude> So I'm guessing 'quote [something] pulls up an arbitrary quote with [something] in it?
03:13:10 <elliott> MDude: yes, unless [something] is a number
03:13:31 <Sgeo> `quote horrors
03:13:34 <HackEgo> 215) <Sgeo> Is there a name for something where I'm more attracted to someone if I know they've had a rough past? <variable> Sgeo, "Little Shop of Horrors"
03:13:55 <HackEgo> 307) <monqy> I've only watched bad movies about video game. I enjoyed every second of it. \ 346) <monqy> my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup \ 349) <monqy> `quote django
03:14:08 <MDude> Brisnging up all sachaf quotes dind't bring up the primate one.
03:14:25 <shachaf> 346: best quote or bestest quote?
03:14:44 <Sgeo> MDude, pastequotes
03:14:50 <MDude> SO it's arbitrary, depending on how htey're sorted.
03:15:36 <HackEgo> 47) <GregorR-L> If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... <GregorR-L> I'd call it jabbear. \ 193) <Gregor> "* There is no scientifically-justifiable reason to exclude pornography, which is a vital part of the web ecosystem. However, bear in mind that we're tracing JavaScript, not MPEG and JPEG decoding." <Gregor> ^^^ This bullet-point is my crowning achievement as as a scientist. \ 245) <quintopia> who is guido
03:15:47 <oerjan> actually it's just `quote without an argument which chooses randomly, i think
03:16:37 <HackEgo> 297) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 348) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 349) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something
03:16:54 <HackEgo> 349) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one <monqy> thankfully only two
03:17:38 <oerjan> shachaf doesn't know who cpressey is! impostor!
03:17:50 <MDude> A printing press for making C-related documentaiton, maybe.
03:18:32 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1855
03:18:49 <MDude> Maybe something liek a Cypress tree.
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03:22:08 <coppro> http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/parlvu/ContentEntityDetailView.aspx?ContentEntityId=9203
03:35:26 <MDude> Alright, looks like Canada still exists.
03:36:41 <MDude> That seems to contradict the measurement that the Earth was destroyed some time ago. :|
03:38:04 <MDude> I think I"ll have to sleep on this.
03:38:08 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDoze.
03:38:15 <elliott> stop reminding me i havent finished reading fine structure yet
03:39:27 <MDoze> Wait what's fine structure.
03:39:56 <elliott> MDoze: Serialised novel by Sam Hughes, the Earth Destruction Advisory Board guy.
03:40:02 <elliott> (Also the How to Destroy the Earth guy and so on.)
03:40:25 <elliott> It's good, at least what I've read of it.
03:40:39 <elliott> (Also good is its predecessor, http://qntm.org/ed. I haven't read his newest thing yet.)
03:43:43 <MDoze> Sounds like some things I'd be interested in.
03:43:58 <MDoze> And now to actually get ready for bed.
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04:36:09 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Fri Jun 15 05:37:31
04:36:20 <zzo38> What is it called if you have a category C and D having a functor from C to D leaving objects alone, and from D to C translating objects? I notice you can do this with Kleisli categories resulting in the endofunctor of the monad
04:36:56 <shachaf> zzo38: Maybe ##categorytheory would know?
04:37:03 <zzo38> It seems to work with comonads too
04:56:58 <zzo38> No, they don't know
05:02:10 <zzo38> My other question was to make up a lens of two categories c1 and c2, where newtype Lens c1 c2 x y = Lens (c1 x (c2 y x, y))
05:02:17 <zzo38> They didn't know that either
05:03:56 <lambdabot> Local time for monqy is Thu Jun 14 22:03:55 2012
05:03:57 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Fri Jun 15 06:05:19
05:03:58 <lambdabot> Local time for zzo38 is 2012/06/14 21:53:15 -0700
05:36:25 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Fri Jun 15 06:37:47
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05:52:29 <quintopia> are you guys ready for this awesomeness?
05:52:35 <quintopia> !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/QNXF
05:52:45 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 58.6
05:53:10 <zzo38> Do you agree/disagree this? http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=9722591#p9722591
05:54:21 -!- quintopia has set topic: NOW WITH EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/JFWU.
05:59:53 <quintopia> !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/THRA
05:59:56 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 59.7
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06:16:22 -!- quintopia has set topic: NOW WITH EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/ejMG.
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06:30:06 <oklopol> Leepaidamba makes the ingenious argument that no one can ever be sure of anything. as we all know, this needs to be said at least once a week, so i totally agree with him.
06:37:35 <oklopol> "It not only turned out one of the axioms was not an axiom at all, but even that another was simply wrong." what do these refer to? for the parallel postulate it turned out that it in fact *was* an axiom (once people stopped being retarded and stopped fearing that god would punish them if they came up with new mathematical objects), so it turned out EG was in fact perfect.
06:37:47 <oklopol> but what are the two axioms?
06:40:12 <oklopol> "If we have to make anything extinct, it is the human we should extinct." this is wrong, animals are worthless compared to humans
06:41:05 <oklopol> (as a species, lives i don't give a shit about)
06:43:29 <zzo38> I do not know what "It not only turned out one of the axioms was not an axiom at all, but even that another was simply wrong." refers to either.
06:45:01 <oklopol> i guess it refers to "God exists."
06:47:10 <zzo38> It seems to me this is refering to geometry, but I don't know what axioms are being refered to here.
06:51:42 <oklopol> what i mean is Leepaidamba doesn't know what he's talking about, he recalled that there was some history around and about euclidean geometry that was useful for making his argument that you can't even be sure about mathematics (and thus god exists), and he chose the details of that history so his argument would sound the nicest.
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06:56:01 <oklopol> also i'm going to russia, and for the visa they need to know the dates of my previous visit
06:56:12 <oklopol> "you were about 3" -- my parents
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11:52:55 <nooga> anyone used leptonica lib?
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13:03:51 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, IAmA?
13:04:22 <Vorpal> uh I guess I completely missed that (since I don't read reddit)
13:05:37 <Vorpal> (well not the iama thing, that sounds familiar when you mentioned reddit)
13:05:47 <Vorpal> (but I mean the elder scrolls lore iama thingy)
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13:08:26 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, do you happen to know a good disk usage viewer for windows. Like showing a pie chart or something to visualize how much different subdirectories use. Gnome 2 has a most excellent tool for that. So I'm looking for something similar for windows
13:08:48 <Vorpal> thanks, will google it
13:09:30 <Vorpal> c:\Programs Files (x86) is 78 GB, so I want to find out why
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13:10:22 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, steam is just about 37 GB (skyrim is on an ssd using the symbolic link thingy of NTFS)
13:10:52 <Vorpal> still a large gap there
13:14:06 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, turned out the GoG.com directory was largest, followed by Steam.
13:14:29 <Phantom__Hoover> Seems like you could've worked that out just by using sort by size.
13:15:09 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, hm I thought windows explorer didn't recursively calculate directory size for sorting/detailed list purposes?
13:15:13 <Vorpal> at least it didn't under xp
13:15:25 <Vorpal> maybe I never checked if it changed under windows 7
13:15:53 <Vorpal> yeah, anyway the graph this program generates is pretty
13:16:34 <Vorpal> oh the colour is file type, right
13:20:38 <Vorpal> I wonder if I can turn off hiberfile.sys, that is 16 GB wasted, since I never suspend to disk on that computer.
13:21:37 <fizzie> Vorpal: "powercfg /hibernate off"
13:22:00 <fizzie> (For an official source, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/920730 has it as the "let me fix it myself" solution.)
13:22:00 <Vorpal> heh, in xp it used to be just a checkbox in the control panel
13:25:36 <Vorpal> it seems on c:\ I have a total of 15.1 GB of *.dll
13:31:18 <Vorpal> on my laptop I'm not sure I could sensibly measure that stuff. I have some loop mounts of squashfs for stuff like NwN static data or the intel c compiler.
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13:33:39 <fizzie> This work-workstation has 1302114840 bytes (about 1.2G) of files ending ".so" in /usr. I'm slightly curious about how many there would be in total in the filesystem tree, but it would probably take far too long to scan through all the network mounts.
13:34:25 <Vorpal> fizzie, you could scan /home and /lib as well, that should cover almost everything else that is local surely. Maybe /opt too
13:34:48 <fizzie> The locatedb doesn't have anything non-local, sadly.
13:34:54 <Vorpal> iirc locate doesn't index the size though, so you would still have to stat() everything
13:35:25 <Vorpal> on my laptop /home is 91 GB (with the squashfs loop mounts unmounted
13:36:14 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, I just saved 1.3 GB by removing vcredist and directx setup files from the steam games (those are only used on first run)
13:36:46 <Vorpal> why couldn't it provide one shared version of those common dependencies, rather than download a copy with each game.
13:37:22 <Vorpal> would save download time at the very least
13:37:24 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/PfWV -- distribution of .so across top-level directories.
13:37:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, /users? That is an unusual setup
13:38:13 <fizzie> Whereas /home is in the netwerk.
13:38:31 <Vorpal> also *.so is mostly symlinks when under /usr, probably to libfoo.so.1.2.3
13:38:47 <Vorpal> so it isn't all that easy to count actually
13:39:24 <Vorpal> and you usually have multiple symlinks to each real .so
13:40:00 <fizzie> I also tried to do a "du -hs /share/matlab/" to see how hilariously much of MATLAB there is, but it's been running for over 15 minutes now and doesn't seem to be finishing any time soon.
13:40:23 <Vorpal> probably due to network?
13:41:02 <fizzie> There's MATLAB versions R2009a, R2009b, R2010a, R2010b, R2011a and R2012a in there.
13:41:13 <Vorpal> why more than one version?
13:41:14 <fizzie> Combined they probably take quite a bit of space.
13:41:38 <fizzie> Just in case someone still needs the old versions, presumably.
13:42:15 <fizzie> Ongoing experiments and whatnot, maybe someone doesn't want to disk changes in results due to changes in whatever.
13:45:39 <fizzie> $ du -hs /share/matlab/
13:45:45 <fizzie> That's not *so* terribly much.
13:46:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, which one is largest and what size is that one?
13:46:52 <fizzie> I so don't want to re-run it for the individual directories.
13:47:09 <fizzie> I would guesstimate they're all the same order of magnitude, more or less.
13:47:26 <fizzie> We used to have nice pages listing which research groups wastes most space on the shared project disk(s), but I think those no longer auto-update.
13:48:45 <fizzie> Actually the link even 404s now. A shame.
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15:08:02 <elliott> Gregor: Oh, fix glogbot already.
15:10:35 <nortti> @ask Gregor have you done anything to fix your bot?
15:11:44 <elliott> nortti: You realise he's not here, right?
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16:49:08 <boily> AnotherTest: bonjour.
16:51:39 <boily> oui, je suis francophone.
16:52:12 <boily> (is it okay with the ops/mods/higher channel entities to have a quick conversation in French with a mysterious testing guy?)
16:52:55 <fizzie> Given that absolutely nothing else is happening, I don't see why not.
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16:53:17 <AnotherTest> (also note that I do speak English too :p)
16:53:38 <elliott> je vais écouter avec l'expédient utile de google traduction
16:53:55 <elliott> il pourrait ne pas fonctionner terriblement bien
16:54:17 <boily> je vais essayer de ne pas trop utiliser d'expressions locales.
16:54:37 <boily> profitons-en pour mieux nous connaître!
16:54:48 <boily> AnotherTest: d'où viens-tu?
16:55:02 <AnotherTest> Je ne suis pas de France moi-même, donc ne pensez pas que je parle le français super-bien
16:55:14 <elliott> google translate a déplacé les yeux de mon smiley pour quelque raison
16:55:52 <boily> je suis québécois, à montréal.
16:58:07 <boily> ça fait presqu'un an que j'y habite. j'aime bien la ville, même si les étés sont un peu trop chauds pour moi.
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16:58:41 <boily> à quoi ressemble le climat en belgique?
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16:59:39 <AnotherTest> Mais, en étant honnête, le climat est assez beau
17:00:05 <boily> hmm... c'est tentant de venir visiter une fois.
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17:01:20 <boily> c'est une compétition en brainfuck.
17:01:36 <boily> les participants essaient de mettre le «drapeau» de l'autre à 0.
17:02:06 <Vorpal> why are you talking French in this channel?
17:02:09 <elliott> Vorpal: pour la discussion en anglais, voir #esoteric-en!
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17:02:37 <boily> fizzie approved our conversation, so we were idling in French.
17:02:51 <boily> et comme AnotherTest a dit, «à cause...»
17:02:56 <elliott> je souhaite fizzie approuvé mes conversations: (
17:03:13 <boily> google translate has a hard time parsing emotes...
17:03:18 <Vorpal> elliott, anyway I played a (very small) bit of Planescape and while it does seem to have a great story and setting the gameplay annoys me too much
17:03:23 <boily> je dois retourner travailler.
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17:04:49 <fizzie> elliott: I approve of your message.
17:05:05 <Vorpal> elliott, also one thing I noticed is that while the lack of any sort of map markers telling me where I need to go increases the immerseiveness (is that a word?), such features do help keep up the pacing of the game.
17:05:29 <Vorpal> I don't think this game have that feature, at least not from what I have seen so far
17:05:34 <elliott> Vorpal: Si c'est un mot, il n'a pas «seive» en elle.
17:06:02 <Vorpal> elliott, I'm not going to bother trying to translate that.
17:07:01 <boily> if it is a word, he does not have tree sap in her???
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17:08:02 <itidus21> Vorpale: Lorsque vous regardez quelqu'un jouer que Star Wars MMO, j'ai commenc rflchir la faon trange, il semblait que les membres du parti dplac sur la carte en temps rel.
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17:08:14 <elliott> boily: J'ai traduit «If it's a word, it doesn't have "sieve" in it.» et que c'est ce qu'il m'a donné.
17:08:18 <fizzie> Vorpal: The battling sort of the gameplay is kinda-sorta "meh", yes. There's not terribly much of it, though.
17:08:35 <Vorpal> fizzie, right, are there any quest markers, any map even?
17:08:36 <itidus21> Sur demande je vais m'arrter dblayage environ avec Google Translate.
17:08:44 <elliott> boily: Re «immerseiveness (is that a word?)».
17:09:05 <Vorpal> fizzie, also why is the inventory display 2x2 squares :(
17:09:33 <Vorpal> (when interacting with chest-like stuff
17:09:55 <fizzie> Vorpal: I don't recall gameplay details at all. I doubt there's any quest markers. You can open a Torment map on another computer, though.
17:10:04 <boily> itidus21: on demand I will stop myself plow about with Google Translate.
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17:10:26 <Vorpal> also holding shift to sprint (instead of walking super slowly) is annoying. A toggle would be far superior (like caps lock is used in oblivion and skyrim)
17:11:48 <itidus21> yeah i will give up and use English !
17:13:00 <itidus21> Vorpal: When watching someone playing that Star Wars MMO, I started to think about how odd it looked having the party members moving about the map individually in real time
17:13:07 <fizzie> Vorpal: There are some mods that more or less make it possible to play with higher resolutions, incidentally. It may make things better; more visibility on screen, certainly.
17:13:30 <itidus21> as contrasted with the way one sprite represents the entire party in most final fantasy games
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17:14:13 <fizzie> I think I mostly followed the http://www.gog.com/en/news/mod_spotlight_planescape_torment_mods_guide/ way of playing. It starts with the resolution/UI bits, then adds some unofficial fixes.
17:14:31 <Vorpal> <itidus21> Vorpal: When watching someone playing that Star Wars MMO, I started to think about how odd it looked having the party members moving about the map individually in real time <-- what?
17:15:13 <itidus21> because i grew up with games where the party is represented by a single avatar
17:15:17 <Vorpal> I would say the one-sprite thing is stranger unless it is a sprite showing several people (like in avernum overworld)
17:16:23 <itidus21> well what I find interesting about it is how easy it was as a player of such games to accept that the single avatar represented an entire party
17:16:48 <Vorpal> argh I can't use the scroll wheel in this game, it is too old to support that
17:17:49 <itidus21> no matter how well intentioned it is, an npc party moving about freely just can't hide it's artificiality
17:19:59 <itidus21> it's an extaordinary leap of imagination that the game asks that a single avatar moving about a tiled map having random encounters represents a party of warriors stumbling upon monsters in the wilderness
17:20:53 <itidus21> ... i haven't really said much of anything with so many words.. i would make an excellent politician
17:22:41 <fizzie> Vorpal: I don't think I've seen a mod for that for Torment, sadly. (There was one for some other game.)
17:28:15 <Vorpal> fizzie, yeah the UI is in general terribly annoying
17:30:08 <fizzie> I don't recall it being terribly different from the usual sort of Infinity Engine stuff.
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17:33:16 <quintopia> is there any difference between @ask and @tell
17:33:27 <elliott> @tell quintopia Maybe there is.
17:33:38 <lambdabot> elliott said 12d 21h 36m 57s ago: no
17:33:38 <lambdabot> boily said 10d 21h 48m 49s ago: hi a little bit later.
17:33:38 <lambdabot> elliott said 4d 10h 33m 17s ago: To clarify, I don't run EgoBot and have no ability to instal lanything on it.
17:33:38 <lambdabot> elliott asked 4d 15m 38s ago: How does the proposed hill differ from the current one? I'm lazy.
17:33:40 <lambdabot> elliott asked 4d 15m 33s ago: Ranking-wise.
17:33:44 <lambdabot> elliott said 11s ago: Maybe there is.
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17:34:54 <itidus21> elliott rejoined 4d 15m 33s ago: Ranking-wise.
17:35:15 <quintopia> i rejoin every time there is a netsplit
17:35:22 <itidus21> im not sure if im using these words right
17:35:34 <fizzie> Vorpal: Okay, yes, now that I look at some screenshots, the container interface thing is a bit lame. Sadly (but understandably), I don't think the high-resolution mod manages to improve on that.
17:35:40 <itidus21> they're very rare words probably only ever found in the translation of war and peace
17:40:08 <itidus21> hmm... i think i can find relevant youtube
17:42:15 <itidus21> of the english translation i have: 1) it has a lot of pages 2) each page has a lot of words 3) you really do need a dictionary at your side
17:42:33 <itidus21> and because i'm the sort of loser who thinks it's fun to talk about something i failed at
17:43:12 <itidus21> i'm just not much of a book reader... but honestly few people are
17:45:04 <itidus21> it's a veritable mt everest of literature
17:46:02 <itidus21> also the fact that most ofl the characters have russian surnames adds to the fun
17:47:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, anyway the game feels too slow paced so far IMO. Also a lot of the UI is clunky. While I'm sure the story and atmosphere is good I think I'm going to skip this game.
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18:16:44 <quintopia> !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/chTZ
18:16:53 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 59.8
18:18:11 <elliott> This looks a lot different to the spelevator of yore.
18:20:12 <quintopia> that is only a 0.7 improvement to the one resulting in the report in the topic
18:20:40 <elliott> By "of yore", I mean the original.
18:21:10 <quintopia> i assumed by "of yore" you meant "i didn't see it when you first submitted 2.0.0 to the hill"
18:23:11 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, right
18:23:26 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, point is the interface is utterly clunky.
18:40:57 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, no, casual is not related to terrible interface. I would be casual if I said the game was too hard or too complex for example
18:42:39 <Phantom__Hoover> You just can't play a game without it babystepping you through the interface.
18:48:00 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, what was that supposed to mean?
18:48:40 <Vorpal> Phantom__Hoover, I'm not talking about needing a tutorial for the interface. The interface is simply badly designed and annoying to use.
18:48:59 <Vorpal> and the combat is terrible.
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19:18:43 <zzo38> If a category has more than one final object, I think then that category would have more than one Finalize monad.
19:18:58 <zzo38> And if there is more than one initial object then it has more than one Initialize comonad.
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19:52:01 <oerjan> <oklopol> "If we have to make anything extinct, it is the human we should extinct." this is wrong, animals are worthless compared to humans
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19:53:32 <oerjan> i don't agree with the reason, but humans _are_ the only current species that might have a chance of allowing life in general to survive certain astronomical events, including the sun dying
19:54:43 <oerjan> and although intelligence might evolve again if we go extinct, there is no guarantee it will be less destructive to life
19:56:30 <oerjan> and i understand there may be only 800 million years left to do so before plant life croaks due to lowered CO2 levels
19:57:19 <oerjan> (of course plants might evolve a better system to survive for longer)
19:57:40 <zzo38> How to save the *universe* from going extinct? Impossible, I would think.
19:57:44 <oerjan> elliott: yeah that _is_ admittedly longer than major macroscopic life has already existed :P
19:58:41 <oerjan> zzo38: well maybe but if the hypothesis that black holes contain new universes is true, then maybe we could find a way to move into there
19:59:41 <oerjan> i guess surviving their initial big bang would be a bitch too
20:01:33 <elliott> zzo38: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
20:01:43 <oerjan> coppro: i think that's jumping to conclusions
20:03:04 * elliott sighs, walks over to the wall and flicks a counter up by one.
20:03:34 <quintopia> !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/ZOGe
20:03:37 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 62.4
20:03:57 <elliott> what are you DOING to bf joust
20:04:08 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt
20:04:10 <coppro> elliott: what counter?
20:04:30 <elliott> coppro: It's next to the counters tracking the number of people in #esoteric who live in Hexham and Helsinki.
20:05:14 -!- quintopia has set topic: NOW WITH EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/JBcN.
20:06:06 <oerjan> so we can assume it is frequently used, then
20:06:15 <coppro> elliott: I assure you Sgeo had nothing to do with it.
20:06:18 <elliott> I think its value may be higher than the other two. Possibly even combined.
20:06:35 <elliott> coppro: Doesn't Sgeo have everything to do with everything, really?
20:06:52 <coppro> Depends. How many frogs has he stepped on?
20:07:05 <oerjan> elliott: was this flicking sparked by the previous #esoteric conversation?
20:07:40 <olsner> How many frogs must a man walk down?
20:07:42 <oerjan> elliott: does the counter have anything to do with people missing references? if so you might flick it again.
20:08:13 <Sgeo> I see a Homestuck reference, I don't see other references
20:08:15 <elliott> oerjan: No. What did I miss. :(
20:08:33 <oerjan> elliott: no i wondered what _i_ missed, since you flicked the counter
20:09:06 <elliott> oerjan: Well, if there was such a counter, then "<oerjan> coppro: i think that's jumping to conclusions" would have confirmed it was in need of flicking.
20:09:31 <oerjan> ah the incredibly lousy pun counter, right
20:09:56 <elliott> A missing-references counter, I mean. Oh, to hell with it.
20:10:10 <oerjan> well i assume the frogs are the homestuck reference Sgeo speaketh about
20:11:02 <coppro> I thought it was counting the number of homestuck readers in the channel.
20:11:07 <oerjan> why the hell did i suddenly get back pain :(
20:11:38 <oerjan> well no risk of flicking it for me, then
20:11:53 <coppro> because I made a subtle homestuck reference and elliott tried to investigate to see whether it was really a reference or just me being stupid.
20:11:58 <Sgeo> Oh, I just read where elliott flicked the counter
20:12:39 <elliott> I assume everyone is stupid by default.
20:12:54 <elliott> If anyone thinks I am testing their stupidity, rest assured I already know the conclusion.
20:12:56 <oerjan> elliott: i was about to say that that wasn't a disjoint set
20:13:09 <Sgeo> I didn't even see the prior HS reference. Because apparently I'm blind.
20:14:07 <olsner> so the counter was counting homestuck readers? and everyone missed the reference, causing the missing-a-reference counter to be created?
20:14:47 <Sgeo> coppro, although looking again, there were several
20:15:10 <elliott> olsner: There's no counters.
20:15:31 <olsner> oh noes, the counters are gone!
20:15:32 <coppro> Sgeo: I only count the quick exchange between elliott and I
20:15:37 <oerjan> the counter _itself_ was a reference
20:15:50 <coppro> elliott: did you check for spoons?
20:15:53 <coppro> (okay this is terrible now)
20:16:00 <monqy> was it ever not terrible
20:16:53 <Sgeo> Uh........ I don't remember spoons in connection with HS. Could be a reference to The Room or the fangame
20:17:16 <Sgeo> Or me being thick
20:17:23 <Sgeo> Because maybe I forgot something in HS
20:22:01 <quintopia> !bfjoust space_elevator http://sprunge.us/NFHC
20:22:04 <EgoBot> Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 63.2
20:23:29 -!- quintopia has set topic: NOW WITH EDIT WARS | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | This is what the bfjoust hill will look like under the new scoring system: http://sprunge.us/ONOi.
20:23:38 <quintopia> elliott: halp. i can't stop. can't get real work done.
20:24:03 <olsner> quintopia: isn't bfjoust real work?
20:24:08 <coppro> elliott: did he really just...
20:24:54 <coppro> it was not a homestuck reference
20:25:00 <coppro> read the thing elliott said
20:25:39 <Sgeo> "there's no counters"?
20:25:52 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving").
20:26:53 <Sgeo> Like a tabletop counter?
20:29:33 <coppro> oerjan: thank you for agreeing with me
20:29:55 <olsner> are we done talking abou counters yet?
20:29:57 <Sgeo> What am I missing here?
20:30:11 <oerjan> seems the new - broke off the swatter
20:30:42 <oerjan> Sgeo: something rectangular, filled with numbers
20:31:11 <Sgeo> And what does that have to do with spoons?
20:32:52 <oerjan> don't worry, knowing about memetic references isn't _really_ obligatory
20:32:57 <coppro> olsner: we're not talking about counters any more
20:33:18 <coppro> we're talking about Sgeo's inability to get references
20:33:21 <oerjan> Sgeo, i don't think we're in HS anymore
20:35:32 <coppro> I think that if we keep this up, someone's going to get unplugged
20:35:59 <Sgeo> elliott already left because of this
20:36:26 <coppro> monqy: the references have you
20:37:12 <oerjan> Sgeo: now i smell a lot of references going around that _i_ don't get
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20:41:13 <coppro> all of my references have been to the same thing as the spoon
20:41:24 <coppro> (which, as previously established, does not exist)
20:42:13 <Sgeo> So Homestuck then. And I can't believe I derped as to the meaning of spoons
20:43:27 <coppro> I meant every reference since then
20:45:51 <Sgeo> Matrix, because of "There's no" in what elliott said
20:48:29 <Sgeo> No one literally said "There is no spoon" in the above convo, so
20:48:49 <Sgeo> Matrix flitted through my head a few times but I rejected it because of that
20:49:33 <Sgeo> I should actually watch at one point
20:49:39 <Sgeo> I haven't seen the beginning of it
20:49:44 <Sgeo> I have seen the sequels
20:50:01 <kmc> imo the first part of the matrix is the coolest
20:50:05 <coppro> the best references are subtle
20:50:08 <Vorpal> meh, references are hyped
20:50:13 <coppro> "there is no spoon" is obvious
20:50:33 <Vorpal> coppro, I watched the first Matrix once many years ago. I don't remember that bit from it
20:50:39 <Vorpal> I never watched any of the other ones
20:50:52 <coppro> Vorpal: "there is no spoon" is probably its most famous line
20:50:57 <coppro> *it's from the oracle scene
20:51:10 <Vorpal> coppro, nah, I'd say the red/blue pill thing is the most famous
20:51:43 <quintopia> it wasn't obvious to me. i also considered and rejected a matrix reference.
20:51:57 <Vorpal> coppro, and I don't remember what the oracle scene was.
20:53:07 <Vorpal> I have a vague memory of someone bending a spoon using his mind, was that the scene in question?
20:53:34 <Vorpal> I don't remember what else that scene was about though
20:54:02 <kmc> they're in the waiting room to see the oracle
20:54:11 <Vorpal> anyway, it wasn't such a good movie as people seem to think IMO. Sure, it wasn't a bad movie, but IMO it was only a bit above average.
20:54:30 <Vorpal> kmc, who was the oracle, I don't remember that :P
20:54:40 <kmc> maybe you could like
20:54:44 <kmc> read a plot summary or something
20:54:55 <Vorpal> quintopia, drawing a blank on that
20:55:04 <kmc> i think in the first movie she only appears in that scene
20:55:17 <Vorpal> right, and I haven't watched any of the other movies
20:55:30 <kmc> neo and morpheus go there to ask her if neo is The One, basically
20:55:37 <kmc> and she gives a cryptic answer which is basically "no"
20:55:43 <kmc> and she makes cookies for them
20:56:03 <kmc> Vorpal: maybe you can elaborate on why you think it's not a good movie
20:56:05 <kmc> i'm curious
20:57:13 <Vorpal> kmc, first: as I said it was a long time ago I watched it. I remember not liking it all that much, but I don't completely remember the specific reasons. I think it was a general subjective "I don't really like this" though.
20:57:13 <shachaf> I don't think it's a good movie.
20:57:24 <Vorpal> kmc, and iirc the combat was a bit over the top
20:58:03 <kmc> that doesn't make it a bad movie
20:58:15 <kmc> the combat was fun to watch, and was decently original when it came out
20:58:24 <kmc> of course there have been 9000 imitations since then
20:58:27 <Vorpal> kmc, indeed, I said it was above average above. I'm just saying it isn't as good as many people make it out to me
20:58:40 <Vorpal> (correction above for the last word on the line before it)
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20:59:19 <Vorpal> kmc, it is not a 10/10 it is more like a 6.5/10
21:00:02 <kmc> you don't have many reasons and that's ok
21:00:12 <kmc> i certainly agree it's not a 10/10
21:00:17 <Vorpal> kmc, not strange, it was like 10 years ago I watched it
21:00:17 <kmc> hard for any film to be
21:00:23 <Vorpal> I don't remember all that much
21:00:47 <Vorpal> kmc, anyway, 10 is unobtainable in my scale. It is "perfect"
21:01:05 <Vorpal> it is like warp 10 in star trek. Infinite something or whatever.
21:01:16 <Vorpal> (not I trekkie, don't remember the exact details of that)
21:01:20 <Sgeo> Hey, they breached it in that one episode
21:01:23 <kmc> not I trekkie
21:01:26 * Sgeo ducks for cover
21:02:38 <Vorpal> I thought they did that more than once
21:03:33 <Sgeo> Vorpal, I was referring to what was considered one of the worst episodes. Dropped from canon.
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21:05:16 <Vorpal> Sgeo, oh the voyager one?
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21:45:28 <oerjan> nortti: i responded to you on the wiki
21:45:56 <zzo38> Do you know if there is MCK for .MOD?
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21:55:07 <elliott> oerjan: (Whoops, I think this reveals a bug for the a case in the !/<code> removal.) --Ørjan (talk) 21:21, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
21:55:09 <elliott> i revealed you another buge
21:56:58 * oerjan whistles in complete innocence
21:58:18 <oerjan> preview is for wussies
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22:40:25 <zzo38> How do I find information about the Impulse Tracker format?
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23:26:29 <fizzie> zzo38: http://16-bits.org/it/ seems to be a copy of the document I've used.
23:28:08 <fizzie> (It's the ITTECH.TXT file in the Impulse Tracker zip, also.)
23:29:08 <fizzie> (So you can find copies of it by searching with that name.)
23:30:16 <fizzie> The user's manual, IT.TXT in the zip, also has some relevant information, like documentation of the filters.
23:32:06 <zzo38> Actually I am trying to make a program which compiles music into Impulse Tracker format
23:32:22 <zzo38> So that it can be played using ModPlug and MegaZeux and so on
23:33:25 <fizzie> I don't have any experience with writing IT files, just reading them, but it's of course somewhat related.
23:33:38 <fizzie> (I've also taken a look at the load_it.c file of the MikMod library sources. Just code there, though.)
23:35:56 <zzo38> Basically I want something like MCK that can compile into .IT or whatever
23:36:21 <zzo38> (MCK is a program to compile .NSF music file)
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23:50:20 <quintopia> zzo38: can you make a program that lets me algorithmically generate .it files?
23:50:44 <quintopia> a simple music language with powerful features
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