< 1340236823 275179 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340237005 344065 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quirtle (>)*8(>[([++[-[--[-[(-)*120(-.)*16>]]]]]>)*21])*21 < 1340237008 4822 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for david_werecat_quirtle: 37.5 < 1340237027 281785 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that still works. < 1340237045 897642 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised it still works so well < 1340237134 595717 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1340237141 75011 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised it beats spelevator < 1340237172 665824 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't. bumps its flag by enough to beat it < 1340237184 420958 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be it just gets there fast < 1340237188 743722 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quirtle (>)*8(>[++[-[--[-[(-)*120(-.)*16>]]]]])*21 < 1340237191 411070 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for david_werecat_quirtle: 37.7 < 1340237208 693759 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very fast against space_elevator. < 1340237232 809653 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another example is david_werecat_ill_take_the_stairs < 1340237252 390943 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :brachiation also bumped its flag, but i deleted it :P < 1340237305 152307 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340237310 60614 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it beats spelevator < 1340237326 54884 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :easily fixed < 1340237419 194559 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why poke is such a great strategy: you can change your strategy for every tape length < 1340237485 154737 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i was only bumping my flag for slow rushes, not fast rushes) < 1340237604 248995 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an alternate strategy for ill_take_the_stairs when you change it :D < 1340237636 528715 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't looked at i'll_take_the_stairs < 1340237639 739869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1340237705 710540 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, bumping flag only works on one polarity when the opponent is already on the flag < 1340237888 43648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah blister on my toe < 1340238021 441351 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quirtle (>)*8(>[++[-[--[-[(-)*122(-.)*12>]]]]])*21 < 1340238023 978214 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for david_werecat_quirtle: 39.0 < 1340238041 822204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sporks quintopia ----(Z
< 1340238044 897846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy < 1340238049 88065 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1340238064 139009 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get a blister? < 1340238073 441334 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :by taking a couple of long walks < 1340238120 328965 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340238121 236417 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1340238123 578536 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should avoid that < 1340238127 786957 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you live again? < 1340238134 775216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :trondheim, norway < 1340238211 470157 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340238217 9839 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they have regular roads there? < 1340238226 262273 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :asphalt? < 1340238305 850712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a lot of asphalt, but there is also a foresty coastal path passing almost next to this house < 1340238481 24050 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quirtle --(>)*8(>[++[-[--[-[(-)*122(-.)*11>]]]]])*21 < 1340238483 519846 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for david_werecat_quirtle: 40.1 < 1340238506 315515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat: HEY NO POKEMONS ON OUR HILL < 1340238533 165518 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try telling ais523 that < 1340238544 294082 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1340238547 624940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1340238547 902681 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1340238610 861139 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340238627 848850 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1340238630 45590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah i don't know enough pokemon to recognize any ais523 ones < 1340238643 209285 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowpoke? < 1340238655 564890 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340238702 44686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340238753 723958 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow poke is a slow version of a poke strategy < 1340238761 343326 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is quirtle even a pkmn? < 1340238771 721248 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has sprunge started working again? < 1340238826 878224 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope :/ < 1340238841 559137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no but it's just one letter off one :P < 1340238888 292571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should use hpaste just to get any random onlookers to wonder < 1340238922 263212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if hpaste has brainfuck syntax coloring :P
< 1340238938 887931 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust space_elevator http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=P3ptiKeC < 1340238944 670664 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_space_elevator: 57.5 < 1340238945 434049 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1340238947 473993 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard of hpaste < 1340238955 389012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems not < 1340238976 491592 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's the main haskell pastebin, but it supports several languages < 1340238980 195275 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat: okay quirtle loses now < 1340238995 833693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also gives hlints for haskell programs) < 1340239028 863780 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Note that ill_take_the_stairs still beats space_elevator < 1340239035 696697 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?win 14 < 1340239035 856721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems you cannot write in other languages in that box < 1340239036 733843 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "14" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1340239036 917341 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 < 1340239037 77790 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: being one more than thirteen [syn: {fourteen}, {14}, < 1340239037 78020 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : {xiv}] < 1340239037 237345 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: the cardinal number that is the sum of thirteen and one < 1340239038 721539 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [syn: {fourteen}, {14}, {XIV}] < 1340239049 548947 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :david_werecat: i haven't even looked at ill_take_the_stairs < 1340239094 344622 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that pause < 1340239107 798320 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's essentially quirtle with hardcoded offsets to beat space_elevator < 1340239126 106126 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there's obviously no way to simultaneously beat quirtle and ill_take_the_stairs < 1340239166 832833 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe something like shudderlock? < 1340239216 345360 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah looks like shudderlock beats it < 1340239263 970398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to have a set of programs that were proved not to be simultaneously beatable < 1340239300 118151 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be interesting < 1340239309 842697 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :something tells me that we'll never achieve it < 1340239346 503359 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ties >((+)*66(-)*33)*-1 < 1340239353 163858 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for david_werecat_ties: 8.0 < 1340239356 645035 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ties ----->((+)*66(-)*33)*-1 < 1340239362 14871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 seemed to claim defence was broken, but is it broken completely or just in a rock/paper/scissors way... < 1340239363 241738 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for david_werecat_ties: 9.8 < 1340239413 12445 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm pretty sure it's just "any defense strategy can be defeated by a rush, any rush can be defeated by a defense, and so on for any mix of strategies" < 1340239443 384202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is not broken, i though he meant something more than that < 1340239468 183036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if there was a program which could beat any defense < 1340239474 992364 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i claimed that once < 1340239493 499737 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it was possible to construct a clear that would break any lock < 1340239505 615865 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1340239527 613648 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking all locks does not imply defense can't be useful < 1340239539 148108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1340239564 132286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :any feature valuable against one opponent might weaken you against another < 1340239574 884149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523 seemed to claim defence was broken, but is it broken completely or just in a rock/paper/scissors way... < 1340239578 313071 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 no longer claims defence is broken < 1340239585 761926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a counter was found < 1340239594 458510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: nice lambdabot invocation < 1340239594 618616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is the essence of r/p/s phenomena i think) < 1340239604 436035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: good, good < 1340239625 561960 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to remember that thing that he and ais523 proved
< 1340239662 880536 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I remember the claim but not the proof < 1340239898 430706 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation2 >->+++++(>[(<)*3(+)*10((<+[{}(+)*50(>--[(+)*50(>)*8(([----[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[(+)*38[-][+][+--]]>{}]>]]]]]]]]]>)%21)*21](+)*50>--[(-)*50(>)*8(([----[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[(+)*38[-][+][+--]]>{}]>]]]]]]]]]>)%21)*21](-)*50)*15])%28)*28]+)*27 < 1340239902 247959 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation2: 16.2 < 1340239909 496582 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :wololo < 1340240087 320640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1340240090 682228 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation2 >->+++++(>[(<)*3(+)*10((<+[{}(-)*50>(+)*44(>--[(+)*50(>)*8(([----[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[(+)*38[-][+][+--]]>{}]>]]]]]]]]]>)%21)*21](+)*50>--[(-)*50(>)*8(([----[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[(+)*38[-][+][+--]]>{}]>]]]]]]]]]>)%21)*21](-)*50)*15])%28)*28]+)*27 < 1340240093 297142 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation2: 46.7 < 1340240166 402520 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*7<<(+[<{}>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*2(>)*7 (>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*22])%28]++)*22>(-)*115[-][+][-] < 1340240169 123848 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 46.3 < 1340240204 450366 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation < < 1340240207 86693 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 0.0 < 1340240235 250508 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation >->(-)*5(>)*4(>[(<)*3(+)*7<<(+[<{}>(-)*50<(-)*50<(-)*10>>(>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](+)*50)*3 (>-[(-)*50(>)*7(>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*27](-)*50)*2(>)*7 (>[(-)*5([+{[(+)*25[-]]}[+]])%10[-]][+][-])*22])%28]++)*22>(-)*115[-][+][-] < 1340240237 890609 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation: 46.2 < 1340240241 997620 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to look at report < 1340240264 166635 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust brachiation2 < < 1340240267 4231 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_brachiation2: 0.0 < 1340241851 743495 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1340242431 803959 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the category (->) has Zero as initial object and () as final object, while (Kleisli Maybe) has Zero as both initial and final, and that (Kleisli IO) has no final object at all. In (Kleisli Finalize) all objects are final. Is this correct? < 1340243214 932727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: assuming you are ignoring bottoms, that seems right except i don't know Finalize. also Zero is initial for any Kleisli m < 1340243304 925220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming Finalize ~ Proxy, that would seem right too < 1340243346 581843 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes I know Zero is initial for any Kleisli category too, and yes Finalize is the same as Proxy < 1340243427 934856 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And where Zero is uninhabited type < 1340243455 460466 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, yes, I do mean ignoring bottoms < 1340243493 14250 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1340243968 146279 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called it Finalize monad and its dual is Initialize comonad, which can be made with any category having final objects/initial objects. They are not specific to Haskell. < 1340244653 968328 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1340244685 196975 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340244886 568593 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust quirtle --(>)*8((>[++[-[--[-[(-)*122(-.)*11>{}]]]]])%21)*21 < 1340244889 286324 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for david_werecat_quirtle: 41.5 < 1340244900 81150 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust lightning --(>)*8((>[++[-[--[-[(+)*14[-]>{}]]]]])%20)*20 < 1340244902 633136 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for david_werecat_lightning: 37.4 < 1340245366 697670 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a weird clear < 1340245653 751054 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do need to go now, but before I do: the clear takes advantage of the fact that most programs leave an even number of decoys. < 1340245672 452556 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how so < 1340245683 13058 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340245684 757185 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1340245901 820320 :david_werecat!1834e065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.52.224.101 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340249535 72559 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: did you see the potato? < 1340249562 625227 :tswett!~tswett@171.64.42.221 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been out for about half an hour. < 1340249641 990988 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, thank yiu < 1340251307 603492 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-54.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1340251320 2965 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-141-54.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340251493 967426 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340251584 392991 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340251912 28894 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340251971 326811 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340254694 844973 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-141-54.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340254696 662284 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-139.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340255200 234516 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: Wychodzi < 1340258050 977254 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 QUIT :Quit: john_metcalf < 1340258327 803558 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340258334 570566 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-157-139.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1340259583 949523 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1340259980 751326 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340260096 290962 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, elliott monqy ta ng update < 1340260546 158372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : tswett, elliott monqy ta ng update <-- out of context that could be an interesting esolang... < 1340260564 315349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1340260566 572028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*conlang < 1340260585 485089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that those aren't esoteric. < 1340260974 596968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What monads/comonads are possible in a thin category? Is it only the identity monad/comonad, Finalize monad, and Initialize comonad? Are any others possible? < 1340260985 584208 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, a WordNet interface? So neat. < 1340260999 503601 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn esoteric < 1340261000 148204 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "esoteric" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1340261000 326876 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric < 1340261002 140847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: confined to and understandable by only an enlightened < 1340261004 115731 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : inner circle; "a compilation of esoteric philosophical < 1340261006 14190 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : theories" [ant: {exoteric}] < 1340261008 944013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such fun. < 1340261026 664918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The *** line seems a bit superfluous.) < 1340261033 252199 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it works < 1340261052 46952 :itidus22!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 NICK :itidus21 < 1340261884 284147 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell there would not be possible to have any monads on a thin category where distinct objects are unequal other than the identity monad and the Finalize monad. < 1340262329 977244 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a proof, disproof, or counterexample? < 1340262415 173825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "unequal"? < 1340262436 959035 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean as in a partial ordering; in case of categories, they would be not isomorphic. < 1340262505 263165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well M x and M (M x) would always have to be the same object then, i think < 1340262535 223232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes it is what I thought. < 1340262599 960141 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, the only way it can make a monad is if M is the identity functor or Finalize, I think. < 1340262619 168662 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And with comonads, also it must be the identity functor or Initialize) < 1340262627 949691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you can have disjoint components behaving independently < 1340262652 480264 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made my polyglot program also a .COM file and it worked on the first try < 1340262668 556805 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is naked bragging but I am very pleased :) < 1340262722 412321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, yes, perhaps you can have a locally final object or something like that, is that what you mean? < 1340262730 933053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1340262796 408674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you take an arbitrary partial order and take the product with (0,1); then can't you make a monad which sends (x,i) to (x,1) ? < 1340262816 545047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*{0,1} < 1340262913 291255 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a product with {0,1}? < 1340262953 854098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a partial order with underlying set {(x,i) | x in original partial order, i in {0,1}} < 1340262974 263975 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1340262975 928795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (x,i) <= (y,j) means x <= y and i <= j < 1340263013 253831 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can see that now < 1340263079 436652 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in this case you have a product of monads; in the other case with disjoint components behaving independently it was a sum of monads, I guess < 1340263208 360652 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it is the product of the identity monad on the original partial order and the Finalize monad on {0,1} < 1340263251 97355 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it seems so < 1340263265 882624 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bye < 1340263297 631602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: May need to do shopping < 1340263857 867451 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340263858 339193 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1340263858 499829 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340263871 885472 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340264480 509314 :augur_!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1340264564 792507 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340264705 892120 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340265390 294806 :MDoze!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MSleep < 1340267078 784391 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are system calls in DOS done through interrupts rather than an ordinary (far) call? < 1340267097 750654 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ditto BIOS) < 1340267112 265696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can at least hook them better when they've done like that, though I don't know if that has been the reason. < 1340267122 445189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, no changing addresses. < 1340267136 125855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly there could be a list of indirect-call addresses at some fixed location. < 1340267148 745662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's pretty much what the interrupt vector table is. < 1340267247 398819 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the code to invoke an interrupt is shorter, maybe < 1340267280 4854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't interrupts have a performance penalty compared to just a far call? < 1340267522 849615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if there's much of a difference in real mode. It certainly doesn't do much more than an absolute-indirect far call/return, except for saving/restoring flags in addition to cs/ip. < 1340267852 795883 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's possible to do pushf + far call to the start of an interrupt handler and things will work out right, if you for some reason want to. < 1340268089 96447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I guess "INT x" also automagically disables interrupts (clears the trap and interrupt flags) which might be useful. < 1340268963 598461 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think so that the functions don't have to be at specific memory addresses. < 1340269000 371804 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extra layer of indirection lets you change memory layout. < 1340269066 745295 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is quite possibly the best individual work of super mario bros. fan art ever: https://sites.google.com/site/jinsdepositry/home/jp_mariofin05fnsm.jpg < 1340269236 581427 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You could do that equally well with an indirect far call. (But admittedly software interrupts and the IVT pretty much pre-implement that sort of thing.) < 1340269454 358743 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a MBR code I wrote once, to call the disk interrupt it did not use INT; instead it had the almost equivalent set of instructions, so that the return address would be different < 1340269599 394472 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And it's CISC. < 1340269605 374820 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why use 2 instructions when 1 will do? < 1340269641 867256 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340269656 773379 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave one example; such as adjusting the return address < 1340269690 136406 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: My *point* was just that real mode x86 coding style prefers to use as few instructions as humanly possible. :) < 1340269727 477683 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, if you're doing that sort of hack, you want to manually call the IVT. < 1340269735 628685 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neat trick, BTW) < 1340269758 505120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, and I agree that too. However, there are sometimes you want to do things slightly different than the standard instructions < 1340269878 181441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This MBR code first fills the screen with "p" black on gray (the color is actually the reason why it is "p"), and then loads the kernel. < 1340270040 173109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the indirect far call also means you'd have to clobber a segment register to hold the location where system calls would be stored. < 1340270862 639642 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction: i concede there is no such thing as best art < 1340271126 132241 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340272622 871995 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340272623 293421 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1340272623 453086 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340272817 864675 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340272909 600910 :derdon!~derdon@p4FD9551F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340273181 6417 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this next link is a wtf moment :-D < 1340273297 420506 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oi50.tinypic.com/2cgbj0k.jpg < 1340273465 800030 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah windows XP, what the fuck < 1340274549 147979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My name is Johny, what the F**K?????" < 1340275672 816701 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340275673 309402 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1340275673 469565 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340275736 865196 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340275868 522604 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1340275928 803558 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340276231 994920 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340276247 807678 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340276549 322627 :nooga_!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340276629 794910 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340278037 809819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340278461 550277 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :h<|XP- {P_X(%GGG(%GGWZ- sh LI!XI!Hello, DOS!$ < 1340278970 859424 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340279327 349810 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-206-169.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340279465 3688 :Slereah_!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-175-118.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1340283533 118954 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so the connection from my computer to my headphones is so noisy that I can hear scrolling. < 1340283584 234531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1340283601 160428 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know how this is happening; it's like the headphone cord is picking up induction currents from every wire in the computer/ < 1340283919 555165 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hearing scrolling is not very unusual, really. < 1340283941 235312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can hear mouse movements on one box if I use the integrated sound chip. < 1340283957 744820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got my external USB audio stick partially because of that. < 1340283995 135968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I wouldn't immediately expect it to be the headphone cord's fault. < 1340284041 853741 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh good, I thought I was going crazy. < 1340284065 93865 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I had to switch to using a USB adapter because I think the front headphone socket is broken,. < 1340284087 733191 :david_werecat!4346fde2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.70.253.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340284115 906425 :kmc_!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340284119 719117 :kmc_!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340284463 78354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I can hear all sorts of things. the most notable is dragging windows around or when web pages load. I can also hear transferring files. The variation on timbre per click is kind of interesting. Copying files will produce a higher pitched tone than loading a web page, for example. Dragging scrollbars will produce more of a staticy sound than a click." < 1340284475 655379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see some people devote time to learning how their computer sounds like. < 1340284746 596357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague recollection of one noise problem solved by muting the CD audio input; presumably the analog CD audio wire from the optical drive was picking up those noises. But that'd probably come through non-headphone playback at the same relative volume if it were the case. (Also not sure if modern optical drives even bother including analog CD-audio.) < 1340284831 105990 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see through my OpenOffice Writer window. :/ < 1340284883 544951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a picture embedded on one page is upside-down, but that might be the document author's fault. < 1340285182 923984 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1340285487 591152 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the Purdue Bursar's Office send me a billing statement of $0 ... < 1340285497 548105 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to pay this $0 before July, too. < 1340285804 149087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd better act fast, then. < 1340285838 306790 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I don't owe them $0 < 1340285848 179891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a $0 bill the other day, too. It had just a row of stars in place of the reference number, but it did have recipient bank account info and a sum. < 1340285852 321794 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't pay in time, they'll charge me a late fee... < 1340285870 345113 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sadly, the late fee is probably a fixed sum, and not a fraction of the $0. < 1340285878 417729 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tragic, I know. < 1340285905 449923 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "¼ the owed fee, minus $50" < 1340285914 401875 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which is which between debit and credit < 1340285940 227983 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sounds like you have $0 credit with them, whereas i have $0 debit with them < 1340285946 546138 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But to your credit, you haven't any debit. < 1340285953 353106 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340285963 225542 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1340285993 55176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also not sure if modern optical drives even bother including analog CD-audio.) <-- mine doesn't have that < 1340285996 456171 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nick MDude < 1340286008 98712 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSleep, fail < 1340286015 495982 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1340286026 427785 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning < 1340286063 615537 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it sounds like the -0 +0 problem < 1340286065 510963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so yeah analogue CD-audio is dying < 1340286084 211516 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if brainfuck was signed < 1340286102 337169 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, uh it is? < 1340286111 482189 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is < 1340286113 550938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, it makes no difference if it is < 1340286116 647378 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1340286117 885611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling that my most recent (SATA) optical drive didn't have CD audio either. < 1340286126 676477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :two-complement and unsigned both works for brainfuck < 1340286144 313323 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, neither of my more modern DVD drives have that < 1340286152 589273 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [] was skipped over for +0 but not -0 < 1340286160 433738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though one of them don't really count, it is ultrabay) < 1340286164 348132 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340286179 250477 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what are you talking about? There is just one zero in two-complement < 1340286188 319311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you talking about sign bit? < 1340286198 366423 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which nobody uses due to the dual zero issue! < 1340286198 526465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultraboy, a superhero that lives in an Ultrabay slot. < 1340286211 335850 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my analogy to gregor's debts < 1340286214 832786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, awesome < 1340286235 404759 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, right, which doesn't work in two-complement. Which is what everybody uses < 1340286243 40155 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1340286252 727701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly people use a "sign bit", just not sign-magnitude. (Well, except if you count floats.) < 1340286262 781719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right < 1340286282 768046 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, floating point is irrelevant to brainfuck though < 1340286299 917299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I guess you should call them and ask wtf they are high on :P < 1340286314 950826 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [,-] < 1340286334 644022 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh i mean < 1340286343 549178 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [,[-]] < 1340286347 191080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see C11 still obeys the traditions and allows one's-complement and sign-and-magnitude. < 1340286347 351735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1340286355 110784 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think thats what i mean anyway < 1340286367 181913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, I have no idea what you mean by that though < 1340286369 371516 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it is waiting for +1 as an input < 1340286392 249710 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the cell is 1 .. then the - operation reduces it down to -0 < 1340286402 562649 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Technically speaking, C11 probably allows you to implement ints as floats that you always truncate. < 1340286407 111106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, do you even understand what two-complement is? < 1340286411 953652 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im out of my mind, some would call it trolling < 1340286413 81217 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. it doesn't give two shits about the representation) < 1340286458 363446 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should try and talk logically < 1340286461 406609 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see what happens < 1340286533 129724 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, it doesn't. Neither did C99. < 1340286559 135195 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha. that was an amusing bureaucratic error they pulled. this has no rational relationship with number polarity or brainfuck. < 1340286561 410736 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is that no, it doesn't allow you to represent them that way, or no, it doesn't give two shits about the representation? < 1340286607 427095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't allow them. It does give shits about the representation. Except in that particular case you might be able to make it work as long as you consider the exponent parts of the float padding bits. < 1340286609 572024 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1340286626 703664 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: You notice how I never "hi" anyone, I just leap into conversations? < 1340286659 263047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hello there! greetings! < 1340286671 438361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For signed integer types, the bits of the object representation shall be divided into three groups: value bits, padding bits, and the sign bit. -- Each bit that is a value bit shall have the same value as the same bit in the object representation of the corresponding unsigned type. -- If the sign bit is one, the value shall be modified in one of the following ways: [list of ... < 1340286677 159652 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do that. i think a lot of bandwidth is wasted on greetings < 1340286677 933772 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... sign-and-magnitude, two's-complement and one's-complement]" < 1340286687 363253 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That pain in your stomach is the blade. Don't think too much about it, the pain will be gone soon. Just breaaaathe. < 1340286695 945337 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1340286719 895745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as for the value bits of unsigned integer types, "each bit shall represent a different power of 2 between 1 and 2^(N-1)". < 1340286733 957632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, only 3 packets: SYN, SYN-ACK, ACK (in TCP) < 1340286739 879948 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst case scenario is a mandatory "i'm back!" every time someone joins a channel, and mandatory "i'm leaving" before quitting or lefting < 1340286749 854809 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have anything to say, so < 1340286753 447827 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Gregor < 1340286767 294996 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Where's the damned cooooode! < 1340286768 920004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, well I will continue greeting people. < 1340286802 127386 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: are you going to install it RIGHT THE FUCK NOW? < 1340286812 605964 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, but it's not impossible. < 1340286823 735354 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, code for what? < 1340286846 747171 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll send it when i get home from work rather than stressing about it now < 1340286852 693505 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where would you like it sent? < 1340286859 200120 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the INTERNET < 1340286869 983260 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340286876 44778 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, mail a copy on a CD :P < 1340286884 600885 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll send it to my private server and not give you access < 1340286895 569758 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Can't you just ... put it online somewhere and give me a URL? Email is so clunky. < 1340286907 490572 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probably < 1340286914 25808 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :where should i email the url? < 1340286918 870571 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1340286922 616272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, Gregor: what is the code for? < 1340286934 801317 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: New BF Joust hill scoring system. < 1340286939 364156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah < 1340286940 538969 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1340286945 656475 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will it differ? < 1340286962 857365 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In almost every conceivable way... but you'd have to ask quintopia for the actual algorithmic details. < 1340286985 110361 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I recall, it's a proper fixed point. But we talked about it MONTHS ago. < 1340286989 112569 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it gives Gregor a hand job every time a new program is submitted. this is the most important feature. < 1340286992 67561 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, what are the algorithmic differences? < 1340286999 465440 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1340287000 273581 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340287024 166348 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bfjoust really exemplifies programmable robot tournaments < 1340287029 800783 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340287084 832055 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it really exemplifies "you're nuts" < 1340287086 633310 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340287152 541047 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once had a plan for a game which exemplified the serious business trope, where there would be remote control robot tournaments in an arena < 1340287162 484491 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the whole society around it would be simulated < 1340287199 262507 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i never quite felt that it was a strong enough basis for a society < 1340287273 448554 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :car racing yes < 1340287292 666274 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but battling robots by remote control, no < 1340287298 930541 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340287312 783763 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :battling robots by pre-programming would be too geek for me < 1340287344 776870 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :real steel, eh < 1340287391 476066 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think it is implied in things like bfjoust that actual systems could compete along similar lines < 1340287475 146110 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are any of those TV series robot battles doing it right i.e. no remote controls? I haven't been paying attention. < 1340287478 969652 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as robots go, bfjoust warriors have the poorest sensors and the weakest attacks :P < 1340287515 335335 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: battle bots had an "autonomous class" once, but it wasn't very good. < 1340287540 30783 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :robocup is the only serious competition along those lines these days < 1340287619 876855 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think bfjoust is like an aggressive form of golf < 1340287644 585792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the aggressive form of golf is where you hit other people with the clubs. < 1340287663 151192 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like suppose there was a golf course where the ball could trigger walls to go up by landing on certain zones < 1340287716 827102 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i have imagination and am proud of it >.< < 1340287731 181351 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1340287743 980608 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a certain amount of golfing of programs required < 1340287761 121621 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in minigolf it could be that there was some pressure censor which could make the doors close < 1340287765 868574 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1340287775 439008 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one of those buildings on the courses < 1340287776 677937 :david_werecat!4346fde2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.70.253.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340287790 244940 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer minigolf games always have that kind of fluff, I'm not sure how feasible that is in real reality. < 1340287797 446594 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : itidus21 you mean sensor? < 1340287802 989163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, rather than censor surely < 1340287826 764575 :david_werecat!4346fde2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.70.253.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340287827 813914 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i fnord meant sensor, but i don't know fnord why i typed censor < 1340287844 636060 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fnord? < 1340287863 724054 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because typing sensor as censor is creepy < 1340287891 369193 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even intentional < 1340287904 381203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fnords were of course < 1340287953 999803 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway.. fizzie i didn't know that about computer golf games < 1340287958 534841 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stands to reason though < 1340287969 192523 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: of course it's feasible though :P < 1340287973 568616 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is < 1340288020 502181 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the course would need some way to know when to do the sensing though < 1340288039 349834 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be an informal rule not to step on the sensors < 1340288059 606683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it only really matters during a swing < 1340288091 830110 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could have little fences emerge from the field < 1340288095 314979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean "feasible" in the "makes business sense" sense. < 1340288100 24519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's physically possible. < 1340288100 184643 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh < 1340288120 226356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like in a mostly-unattended course that sort of stuff would just forever be getting stuck or whatnot. < 1340288132 969978 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was also referring to code golfing too indirectly < 1340288185 667260 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since bfjoust against a static unchanging opponent amounts to code golf < 1340288218 985669 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. there is no rewardd for shorter code in bfjoust < 1340288239 869686 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :code golfmight mean something different than you thik < 1340288247 15089 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a good point < 1340288265 771871 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i avoid logic too much < 1340288468 339560 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i arrived at this point by pondering what would happen if the jousters in bfjoust didn't compete. and i didn't think it through. i guess that it would simply be a case of >>>>>>>>> < 1340288492 975355 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for as long as need be < 1340288644 452359 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1340290032 685661 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: Found terminal < 1340290134 188460 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340290263 634663 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340291177 949281 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1340292451 571861 :Frooxius|TabletP!~chatzilla@85.162.151.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340293269 826059 :Frooxius|TabletP!~chatzilla@85.162.151.91 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1340293750 657176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who thought that abbreviating "Low self-discharge nickel-metal hybrid battery" to "LSD NiMH" was a good idea... < 1340293813 941155 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a good idea to me. < 1340293818 269481 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1340294101 791883 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing i seem to do is put into words things which wouldn't normally be put into words < 1340294248 387752 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have these strange insights which seem to often be incomplete versions of theories and ideas known to the wise < 1340294285 190419 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i make it perverse by trying to use them primarily for creating entertainment < 1340294359 292719 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i once had this thought about a turtle shell from super mario bros bouncing against bricks being almost like a program running < 1340294388 169085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a program running. The game simulating the event you just described < 1340294390 307673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1340294399 171770 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but.. uh < 1340294416 494927 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean as if bricks and turtle shells could almost form a turing machine < 1340294445 180570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that < 1340294451 53242 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume to begin with i would need a non-breaking brick, a breaking brick, and a turtle shell bouncing < 1340294452 700160 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no flow control < 1340294482 114211 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shell goes either left or right, hits a brick, bounces back the other way < 1340294491 482150 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also program output would e < 1340294493 689000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the brick can be destroyed < 1340294501 553950 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when it bounces back again < 1340294506 392121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :be* limited based on the number of bricks you have available < 1340294510 934733 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can continue further < 1340294514 941513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't create more bricks as required < 1340294515 101769 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1340294527 810847 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1340294543 758674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm pretty sure it isn't TC, though don't quote me on that < 1340294562 162403 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, Subway has introduced a guacamole bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich. < 1340294569 788945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1340294571 785327 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres this scene near the end of one of the levels where you knock one brick down and watch it destroy row after row of bricks < 1340294575 484079 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tragically, they don't abbreviate it to GBLT, and hence do not attract only a niche audience. < 1340294590 631845 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess that is the most inspiring part of t < 1340294600 144093 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1340294614 959444 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. there could be a thing where a shell can fall down a hole < 1340294637 910278 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean the program has stopped running perhaps < 1340294656 163735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can halt < 1340294707 771704 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only now at the end do you see how truely perverse i am about this stuff < 1340294718 93804 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1340294858 317367 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340294937 352269 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: if i figured out a way to make more bricks though, that could be a cool thing < 1340294990 482169 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eargh.. my poor brain < 1340295020 599255 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure the brain is the put-upon one in the iti/iti's brain relationship. < 1340295039 220599 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would actually have to understand TCs to take this any further < 1340295064 557506 :oklopol!~nnscript@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only understand like half of the TCs < 1340295086 772904 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so humm < 1340295114 554539 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shell proceeds along resting on bricks < 1340295140 126617 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when it encounters a brick in it's path it erases the brick and then changes direction < 1340295203 320307 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummm < 1340295264 440156 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill check my blood glucose < 1340295307 709406 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=007004 < 1340295312 119397 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fine < 1340295321 101221 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eugh argh aaargh < 1340295329 855046 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NOT HOW LOTR WRITING WORKS HUSSIE < 1340295341 369649 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has all the diacritics wrong afio;jgsafio;g < 1340295494 864396 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1340295551 458315 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340295842 246690 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so mario gives us the easy part.. a tape < 1340295873 63533 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i suppose that an unbounded strip of tiles either containing a blank or a brick is a tape < 1340295884 267674 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the turtleshell is the head < 1340295911 558343 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think my lack of understanding begins by assuming that tells me much on it's own < 1340295959 967734 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1340295966 394380 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you trying to understand turing machines < 1340295971 116497 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by analogising with mario < 1340295988 568480 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the head(the turtle) can erase a brick.. but it needs the capacity to write a brick.. which can be added too < 1340296003 570346 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 QUIT :Quit: john_metcalf < 1340296026 128158 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a bit weird having the shell writing bricks but i guess it is necessary < 1340296108 13765 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is next :-? < 1340296129 483322 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can say that it is currently running such a program that < 1340296322 912021 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the shell is on a blank it will proceed to the right until it encounters a brick. if the shell is on a brick it will erase the brick, then proceed to the left. if the shell is on a blank it will proceed to the left until it encounters a brick. if the shell is on a brick it will erase the brick, then proceed to the right. and repeat. < 1340296438 334988 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is that part, the defining that "program" which is the aspect of turing machines i am most uneducated about < 1340296490 534660 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, have i defined an instance of a finite state machine? :D < 1340296505 786534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You could equally well say "Eurg argh aaargh" to the phrase "LOTR WRITING"; there are quite a few fictional scripts in the Middle-earth legendarium. < 1340296518 477667 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what he's imitating is none of them. < 1340296540 767165 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's imitating the English-but-with-Tengwar-vowel-signs script that's used for maps and the like. < 1340296545 552402 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will call that program mario < 1340296578 458623 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless a better name exists < 1340296691 929507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall anything like that in the maps that are in my copy. But that's a Finnish printing. < 1340296706 514849 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I can't actually see it on the maps I can find. < 1340296730 109285 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's definitely used somewhere for some window-dressing text. < 1340297810 283686 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heres the program in C :-D < 1340297819 123304 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : while(1) { while (n[i] == 0) i++; n[i] = 0; i--; while (n[i] == 0) i--; n[i] = 0; i++; } < 1340297903 200387 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one more time to be a bit cleaner: while(1){ while(!n[i]) i++; n[i]=0; i--; while(!n[i]) i--; n[i]=0; i++; } < 1340297933 310723 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a tape clear to the right that never comes back < 1340297944 845832 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1340297947 713446 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1340297954 445172 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually did spend far too long doing that < 1340297958 372006 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it clears an equal number of cells to the right < 1340297966 831448 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it will to the left < 1340297987 895038 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when one direction is completely cleared, it heads off to infinity < 1340297993 757683 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't compile of course since the size of n is unspecified and nor is the type of i < 1340298021 27129 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can compile it < 1340298028 950932 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make n a linked list < 1340298030 795300 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i applied brainfuck logic to it in C < 1340298069 372679 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im yet to write a bf version of this though < 1340298086 766735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the challenge before me < 1340298130 815669 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is more difficult in bf < 1340298151 248349 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (n == 0) is certainly not what bf was made for :D < 1340298151 743652 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you need to keep something on the tape to use as your while loop flag < 1340298167 809699 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :much easier to set the whole tape to 1s < 1340298172 236977 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1340298184 501509 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that could work < 1340298191 246129 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. not quite that < 1340298192 514854 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1340298198 868064 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340298204 993440 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean... i could inverse the logic < 1340298210 216933 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill try that < 1340298212 626800 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1340298224 185183 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340298229 584096 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi boily < 1340298310 678974 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps if i say 1 is a blank, then i can do this: while(1){ while(n[i]) i++; n[i]=1; i--; while(n[i]) i--; n[i]=1; i++; } < 1340298332 998617 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hnnn < 1340298341 993248 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite < 1340298343 878641 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok thats what you said < 1340298360 4315 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the tape is all bits that would work < 1340298413 587756 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1340298418 185361 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hi! < 1340298509 678506 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ahh < 1340298515 732882 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i put < 1340298515 893022 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's what i'm thinking: [-][[>]>[-]<+[<]<[-]>+] < 1340298545 325810 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while(1){ while(n[i]==1) i++; n[i]=1; i--; while(n[i]==1) i--; n[i]=1; i++; } < 1340298549 568557 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: did i ever tell you that i <3 aubergine < 1340298565 783233 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: that works < 1340298610 495958 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1340298865 62995 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: thanks! < 1340299220 364080 :Frooxius|TabletP!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1340299406 416071 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@65-128-161-243.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1340299873 903102 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340301256 414707 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so i made it! < 1340301264 787783 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [-]+[[[-]+>][-]+<[[-]+<][-]+] < 1340301294 310653 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fark that took more work than i expected < 1340301901 780454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purely going on substrings, ...][-] looks dubious, because immediately after passing through ] the cell can only be 0. < 1340301907 113669 :atrapado!~za@95.169.243.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340302055 236735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this interpreter best demonstrates it's behaviour (in the debug box) http://www.lordalcol.com/brainfuckjs/ < 1340302260 898240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very confusing debug box. < 1340302279 854757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took me a while to realize that it doesn't skip jumps, instead it walks through then with "SKIP WHILE: true" in the box. < 1340302327 77903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm reasonably sure it's not physically possible for those [-]s that come immediately after a ] to actually have an effect on anything. < 1340302385 306282 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1340302422 528031 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh so its redundant code? < 1340302456 495496 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1340302505 557075 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i like this new version < 1340302521 366374 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [-]+[[[-]+>]+<[[-]+<]+] < 1340302585 416003 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i can't figure out what it's doing when it stops < 1340302588 570185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The [-] immediately at the start is I guess technically redundant too, assuming the usual start of a tape full of zeros. < 1340302685 612786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I suppose there's some reason why the program is not just +[[>]+<[<]>] ? I haven't really been following the conversation. < 1340302736 389785 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm the one who wrote it >.< < 1340302745 73137 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why < 1340302779 318066 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuff said eh < 1340302897 896127 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well that program, which you have written properly, it's a simulation of a turtle shell from super mario bros. < 1340302990 240460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. Except the way I wrote it, it only grows to one direction. But +[[>]+<[<]+] should be it. < 1340303012 515854 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1340303022 864597 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340303026 169294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I mean +[[>]+[<]+] -- that one < is obviously unnecessary. < 1340303035 218252 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1340303115 63601 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so... like.. what you have basically got here is a way to tell a super mario turtle shell how to bounce < 1340303231 11085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a hypothetical brainfuck where < and > were replaced with ^ (either > or < depending on the current direction) and | (flip the current direction), that would be the simpler +[[^]+|]. < 1340303286 240873 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the reason i made such a mess of hte program was i was trying to base it on C < 1340303455 765124 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so [-]+[[[-]+>][-]+<[[-]+<][-]+] was supposed to be: < 1340303463 847986 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n[i]=1;while(n[i]!=0){while(n[i]!=0) { n[i]=1;i++;}n[i]=1;i--;while(n[i]!=0){n[i]=1;i--;}n[i]=1;} < 1340303526 905688 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah.... < 1340303659 460285 :Frooxius|TabletP!~chatzilla@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1340303727 732628 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340303747 505342 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340303856 489662 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... thats over. i can try to learn from this < 1340304249 167292 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess a direct translation of "=1" does easily end up with some [-]+'s. Anyway, +[[>]+[<]+] translates to n[i]++; while (n[i]) { while (n[i]) i++; n[i]++; while (n[i]) i--; n[i]++; }, it's just that all n[i]++s are performed only on cells that are zero, therefore they are equivalent to n[i] = 1s. < 1340304278 420267 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1340304310 999988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for something like while (n[i] != 0) { n[i] = 1; i++; }, it's not really necessary to have n[i] = 1 in there, because n[i] is already 1, otherwise it wouldn't be looping any more. < 1340304317 76589 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have developed a sound system of translating brainfuck to C as part of a way to read it < 1340304331 521779 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think only now have i got it all sorted < 1340304545 950836 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the translating: http://pastebin.com/sXRNnvVr < 1340304842 593710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia Brainfuck article has a C translation too, unless I misremember. < 1340304860 414839 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they have. Though it's the pointer version. < 1340304923 355668 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 JOIN :#esoteric < 1340305033 129314 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i personally like mine better.. but blah < 1340305186 151751 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my knowledge of C is limited also.. i don't really consider deeply what ++ before and after means < 1340305218 289948 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do i know whether a pointer can be trusted to address an array < 1340305530 783279 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty much the only thing a pointer can really do. < 1340305581 361855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for pre/postfix ++/--, it doesn't much matter if the value of the expression is not being used for anything. < 1340305584 589797 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1340305675 529815 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some (idiots) will tell you one of them is more efficient (I honestly don't remember which it is) when you're not using the result. < 1340305686 561602 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... This may have been true of pathologically un-optimizing compilers. < 1340305692 370688 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a mario shell is a strange sort of tapehead < 1340305726 74514 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can read 3 cells < 1340305747 754521 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1340305751 887378 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not 3 < 1340305764 426404 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, it can perhaps read the before and after < 1340305783 306716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the prefix version that's usually considered efficient, though mostly in the context of C++ and user-defined types. < 1340305836 512651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the postfix version of the operator has to create a temporary (and hope it's optimized away), while the prefix operator can just return a self-reference. < 1340305921 793127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen C++ books advocate it's good form to have a habit of using the prefix version in all cases when the value is not used, though. < 1340306055 336405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/operator-overloading.html#faq-13.15 from the much-maligned FAQ. The FQA just pokes fun at how the compiler's optimization powers in this answer aren't limitless. < 1340306078 340619 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, well, C++ ought to be ignored. < 1340306138 534739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps they should be calling it ++C, so that it'd be efficient. < 1340306347 70814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ trivia (well, it's maybe not that trivia): to show that you intend to overload the postfix ++ instead of the prefix ++, you give the "operator++" method a dummy int parameter. < 1340306426 761471 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely think it's defined to have the value 0, but using it would be really bizarre. < 1340306427 843551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, I had "/me wonders" unsent in my #esoteric tab < 1340306432 375841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have forgotten what I was wondering < 1340306452 868310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right; I was wondering if anyone received emails sent to abuse@example.com or webmaster@example.com < 1340306458 128997 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suffers from repressed bad memories from his freshman programming introductory course...
< 1340306478 601071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Isn't that just a MX record check? < 1340306592 716891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: example.com doesn't seem to have a MX record, but it *does* have A/AAAA records, and I think those are used as fallbacks by MTAs. < 1340306629 779355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also has dnssec signatures, interestingly enough.) < 1340306794 720010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody seems to be home at port 25 though. < 1340306988 8550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1340307308 553364 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-148-93.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1340307514 710722 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-148-93.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340307986 427794 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340308821 917082 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-160-244.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: battery < 1340309349 53526 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purdue University Board of Trustees, which are appointed by the governor of Indiana, elects the governor of Indiana as president of Purdue. < 1340309398 843511 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you so interested in purdue? one might think you lived there :-j < 1340309415 973410 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And/or am a student there. < 1340309455 273822 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i'm.. reaching the < 1340309459 660040 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time < 1340309461 508503 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for itidus21 is Fri Jun 22 06:09:29 < 1340309462 699917 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1340309491 632501 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it adds crank to my cranky < 1340309537 876316 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i must say < 1340309567 801267 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first paragraph on this page is quite enlightening http://www.iwriteiam.nl/Ha_bf_Turing.html < 1340309977 440051 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1340310781 606848 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8 < 1340310783 395357 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok! i have come up with a way to think of an FSM in C < 1340310849 793798 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/fSEUDLtQ < 1340310952 432001 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that took quite a while to arrive at actually.. < 1340311364 387884 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, even better: http://pastebin.com/xqP9wrxi < 1340311460 715362 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems what i am missing is a null operation < 1340311923 381953 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't microvax vax in desktop case? < 1340311934 909609 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel < 1340312081 165734 :david_werecat!4346fde2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.70.253.226 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1340312203 685766 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, are you in Vax channels!? :D < 1340312219 119968 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. in #musl < 1340312224 586385 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever that is < 1340312232 929859 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to make a clever joke about my computer's name, but it's just not coming. < 1340312246 183270 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: musl is libc < 1340312265 589481 :nortti!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wasn't your computer named vax? < 1340312273 502774 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1340312287 118945 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This reminds me, I really need to get some compressed air and clean it out. < 1340312301 322595 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fans have an incredible amount of dust on them. < 1340312533 89219 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if there is any actual end to my edits to this, but im wondering if this is a sound comprehension of turing machines http://pastebin.com/xpNcw1jh < 1340312535 343375 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, ah right that sounds familiar < 1340312550 822534 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lots of my notorious custom notations < 1340312556 100147 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you have dust filters? < 1340312569 565372 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that while they are not perfect (no surprise there) they help a lot < 1340312577 653542 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, they would probably: help. < 1340312591 674597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than cleaning every other month I only need to clean maybe 1.5 times / year < 1340312594 643981 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess all the dust in this room is because it's carpeted or something. < 1340312609 953619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I only have a small carpet in my room < 1340312615 426735 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't a very dusty one < 1340312632 236564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to google translate it is a "rag rug" < 1340312640 835366 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if that was accurately translated < 1340312668 173825 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm seems accurate < 1340312674 613027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it doesn't cause that much dust < 1340312696 650260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you have fans pushing air in or sucking air out? < 1340312730 847346 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dust filters wouldn't help that much with the sucking (negative air pressure) design, since then a lot of air will be sucked in elsewhere as well < 1340312814 757693 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh I was given an address for tomorrow, except when I check google maps and google street view it is just forest there < 1340312818 790753 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the crap... < 1340312849 981883 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it must be newly built < 1340312880 219308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there is a building site on the map (not on street view) some way further down the road, so I guess that is possible < 1340313588 317434 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-206-169.w90-49.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1340313785 615886 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think i have done something worth looking at now :D < 1340313807 952400 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my question is, is this a valid turing machine to simulate the bouncing mario bros shell? http://pastebin.com/iu2atVC3 < 1340313864 373862 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual its awful notations < 1340314175 925920 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1340314211 876548 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1340314407 291364 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover, do you have fans pushing air in or sucking air out? < 1340314408 383597 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both. < 1340314414 662620 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This case has so many fans. < 1340314424 339282 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them have ridiculous blue LEDs attached. < 1340314426 673844 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate this case. < 1340315062 134049 :john_metcalf!~digital_w@87.115.178.251 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a box with 24 fans. No LEDs though :-P < 1340315128 511510 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gya ha ha < 1340315164 317847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1340315194 348908 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1340315762 35203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1340316900 278305 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1340317677 863693 :derdon!~derdon@p4FD9551F.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1340317704 212398 :derdon!~derdon@p4FD9551F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1340317791 482587 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340317987 166112 :derdon!~derdon@p4FD9551F.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1340318128 61959 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1340318167 673188 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340318230 479225 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1340318232 796200 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so nothing interesting here since last night? < 1340318236 885231 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you next week then < 1340318352 161626 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The dilemma is that I want something fine-tuned for parsing binary protocols, hence I can't really externalize the tokenizer." < 1340318361 841325 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :externalize .... the tokenizer? < 1340318364 464837 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: omosiroi koto ha huhituyounntà < 1340318412 753388 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: admit that you gave up after the ha? the thing after that looks like gibberish < 1340318444 412055 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, à in japanese? can you even do that? < 1340318447 313672 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why did you block Heliumint < 1340318452 643597 :nortti_!~juhani@a88-113-14-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no < 1340318470 280505 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"... a parser that uses a trie structure to determine the parse rules before the actual extraction. The problem of course is that it will not solve the problem with left recursion." < 1340318525 999751 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should suggest that this guy read a book and/or get a clue? < 1340319273 783254 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I try Bastion < 1340319422 131980 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I use a really absurd romanisation scheme. < 1340319444 319668 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: 面白い事は不必要んだ。 in normal Japanese writing. < 1340319506 921421 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "tà" indicates "ta" with a dakuten. i.e. た + ﾞ. < 1340319540 610198 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Omoshiroi koto wa fuhitsuyônda" in a more ordinary romanisation scheme. < 1340319613 965201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: why did you block Heliumint < 1340319624 647904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason is right there on the page. < 1340319767 192302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :abusuruda < 1340319774 304018 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i didn't know better i'd think you all speak japanese in addition to the other skills < 1340319790 768941 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's mostly my fault. :P < 1340319861 394096 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1340319873 112436 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what you're doing is romanizing japanese for a finnish audience? < 1340319887 348568 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1340319903 178332 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Romanizing Japanese by way of a strict encoding of kana orthography. < 1340319944 643029 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm contented with the word romanizing.. though i used to throw the word transliteration around a lot once < 1340319971 105745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there is any japanese word which would be clearly illegal phonetically in finnish
< 1340319986 281489 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure. < 1340320009 106455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, there's vowel harmony, but you can make compounds breaking that < 1340320013 349154 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres one way to get a positive proof < 1340320019 434735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean.. < 1340320044 213092 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if surely if all of the syllables are ok then combining them is ok < 1340320068 855470 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hmm. Trying to think of a weird edge case in Japanese. < 1340320071 434845 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know im wrong on this one; < 1340320071 594466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: actually no, that's what vowel harmony thwarts < 1340320114 733224 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, whether or not it looks clearly illegal possibly depends on the chosen romanization. < 1340320115 408881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot have a,o in the same non-compound word as ä,ö,y < 1340320131 947765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, add u the first group < 1340320141 985275 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"zutsū" and "sùtuu" look rather different, for example. < 1340320155 401408 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to the < 1340320181 115709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right z is not a finnish letter i think < 1340320379 899471 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As do "wikipedia" and "uīkihe̊tèīa"... < 1340320424 176093 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i hope the japanese at least pronounce it with a p < 1340320436 45936 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1340320486 499733 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's denoted as "he" with a handakuten, i.e. へ + ﾟ, though. < 1340320566 653014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okiheia < 1340320596 436446 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise, "wi" is written as "u" with a small "i", ウィ, because there's no glyph for "wi" (... in modern usage, that anybody actually *knows*) < 1340320616 818289 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-147-91.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Similar for "di", ディ. < 1340320793 539736 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1340320793 737629 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-241.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1340320793 737787 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1340320811 263509 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1340321117 99209 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :{g,a,n,d,l,f}\{t,h,e,g,r,a,y} = {n,d,l,f} ! < 1340321150 479163 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if it's gray or grey though < 1340321344 312627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "Grey" in my electronic version, at least. < 1340321479 72251 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that gray/grey is a word upon which england(?) and usa have chosen to differ, and the signifigance of LOTR coming from jsdlkjdklsjdkls shit why don't i even know what to call that place < 1340321515 482101 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :england, great britain, UK, < 1340321968 922703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Comparing wiki's phonology articles, we don't have a superset of their phonemes. Though it's not *terribly* far. (We're missing IPA /z/, /w/, /N/ and on the vowel side they've got /a/ in place of our /ɑ/.) < 1340322191 796728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/N/? < 1340322359 501222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvular_nasal < 1340322498 223000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do have /ŋ/ which I guess is not horribly far, but not the same thing. < 1340322513 916044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1340322631 734754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And regarding /z/, even though we don't have it natively, it's not as if we were especially unfamiliar with it, what with English and all. < 1340322888 459925 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There might be a tendency to unvoice it to a [t͡s] kind of sound though.) < 1340323021 769603 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Possibly German influence? I think their 'z' letter is pronounced like that.)