00:02:31 <Vorpal> <kallisti> shachaf: the Color plugin applies a filter that removes color codes when +c is on (and we don't have voice/ops) <-- we don't have +c though?
00:02:55 <Vorpal> though who in here would use colour
00:03:20 <Vorpal> I don't know anyone who would
00:04:51 <Vorpal> hm my phone is able to downsample 1080p to 720p on the fly without much issues. Impressive. More than what my old desktop could do. (The built in media player didn't want to play the clip, but vlc for android worked just fine)
00:05:03 <shachaf> ^rainbow that'sasadrainbow
00:05:06 <kallisti> I didn't write and test 700+ lines of perl code 2 days after I came back to #esoteric
00:05:16 <Vorpal> (the phone has a 720p screen)
00:05:17 <kallisti> needless to say this bot has been used in other channels.
00:05:30 <Vorpal> kallisti, which bot is that?
00:05:34 <shachaf> If it's so "needless" then why have you done it at least twice already?
00:05:57 <Vorpal> shachaf, because irony
00:06:32 <shachaf> monqy: are you always watching
00:06:34 <Vorpal> oh didn't know kallisti had been away
00:06:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services).
00:06:36 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined.
00:06:38 <Vorpal> kallisti, anyway what bot?
00:06:42 <monqy> shachaf: only sometimes
00:06:49 <kallisti> Vorpal: the one you were just taking about
00:06:54 <kallisti> and the one I've been talking about
00:06:59 <Vorpal> kallisti, I was talking to a bot?
00:07:12 <Vorpal> where? I talked to you and shachaf, that is all I know
00:07:38 <Vorpal> kallisti, yes and I'm asking about the name of it
00:07:47 <rolebot> kallisti: Commands begin with ~ or $ | Use help <name> to get more help on a specific command or category. | Categories: Admin, Messages, RP | Misc. commands: echo, frink, lastsaid, seen, time, words
00:07:58 <Vorpal> kallisti, I literally connected to my bouncer before I said that line, then read the log replay
00:08:54 <Vorpal> kallisti, what does rolebot do that fungot, HackEgo, EgoBot or lambdabot can't do?
00:09:10 <Vorpal> itidus21, znc to be specific
00:09:24 <kallisti> Vorpal: not much. it can show you the time in a location, it can roll dice, it shows the titles of some URLs, and is otherwise a lambdabot clone of sorts
00:09:29 <Vorpal> itidus21, now you lost me
00:09:55 <rolebot> Time in Fucking, Austria (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 02:09
00:10:03 <rolebot> Time in Kiruna, Sweden (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 02:10
00:10:09 <rolebot> Time in Shit, Iran (GMT+4.50): 2012-07-06 04:40
00:10:12 <rolebot> Time in Orebro, Sweden (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 02:10
00:10:15 <rolebot> Time in Ballsh, Albania (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 02:10
00:10:32 <Vorpal> Ö is a different letter in the Swedish alphabet
00:10:43 <rolebot> Time in Hell, Norway (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 02:10
00:10:52 <kallisti> complaints may be directed at the web API I'm using to get this data.
00:10:55 <Vorpal> kallisti, the correct transcription of Örebro would be Oerebro
00:11:15 <Vorpal> kallisti, which web api?
00:11:27 <rolebot> Time in Ekeby, Sweden (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 02:11
00:11:40 <Vorpal> there is like tens of them
00:11:54 <Vorpal> well all of Sweden is GMT+2
00:11:55 <ion> GMT is dead, long live UTC
00:11:58 <Vorpal> so it doesn't mean anything
00:12:32 <kallisti> my $json = get_url "http://www.worldweatheronline.com/feed/tz.ashx?q=$query&format=json&key=$api_key";
00:12:59 <Vorpal> kallisti, I know on the top of my head I have driven through at least four Ekeby. Every single one has been like less than 20 houses.
00:13:09 <kallisti> it's hard to find a decent timezone search service
00:13:22 <kallisti> I use a combination of Olsen database for timezone names and that site for other queries.
00:13:37 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: time: not found
00:13:39 <rolebot> Time in EST: 2012-07-06 00:13
00:13:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: time: not found
00:13:54 <rolebot> Time in UTC: 2012-07-06 00:13
00:14:19 <Vorpal> it can handle that alias (used in the area of aircrafts)
00:14:20 <kallisti> doesn't do GMT offsets unfortunately
00:14:25 <kallisti> I guess I could add that pretty easily
00:14:33 <Vorpal> kallisti, what about UTC offsets?
00:14:39 <rolebot> Time in Utchahana, Japan (GMT+9): 2012-07-06 09:14
00:14:45 <rolebot> Time in CEST: 2012-07-06 00:14
00:14:50 <Vorpal> err what if I want CET
00:14:54 <Vorpal> CEST is the summer time equiv
00:15:00 <kallisti> I don't think CET is an official timezone name
00:15:11 <Vorpal> kallisti, err, that is what Sweden has when it isn't summer time
00:15:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: time: not found
00:15:20 <Vorpal> kallisti, CEST is the summer time timezone for sweden
00:15:21 <rolebot> Time in PST, Preston, Cuba (GMT-4): 2012-07-05 20:15
00:16:06 <Vorpal> tor 1 jan 1970 01.00.00 CET
00:16:11 <kallisti> time and frink are pretty useful for IRC I think.
00:16:12 <Vorpal> kallisti, proof of timezone ^
00:16:24 <Vorpal> kallisti, now get CET working :P
00:16:31 <Vorpal> fre 6 jul 2012 02.16.27 CEST
00:16:39 <kallisti> https://github.com/kallisti-dev/Rolebot
00:16:52 <Vorpal> kallisti, perl you said? I never written anything in perl
00:17:00 <kallisti> think of it as a learning experience.
00:17:03 <Vorpal> nor do I have any plans to learn perl
00:17:12 <Vorpal> from what I seen it looks like a slightly better version of PHP
00:17:27 <rolebot> Commands begin with ~ or $ | Use help <name> to get more help on a specific command or category. | Categories: Messages, RP | Misc. commands: echo, frink, lastsaid, seen, time, words
00:17:45 <kallisti> roleplaying. it was originally supposed to be a dice roller bot, but then no one plays tabletop games
00:17:49 <kallisti> so now it's just a lambdabot clone.
00:17:59 <rolebot> Usage: roll <number> [<diff>]
00:18:09 <kallisti> Vorpal: it targets specific tabletop systems
00:18:18 <Vorpal> kallisti, how do I make it roll 2d10?
00:18:20 <kallisti> (and is currently the only one that works)
00:18:27 <kallisti> you don't. I haven't actually make it useful for its intended purpose.
00:18:41 <kallisti> and no one plays tabletop games.
00:19:25 <kallisti> also perl is much better than PHP, by any measure.
00:19:30 <Vorpal> but I played ones IRL, and I had a friend at university who plays make campagins and plays every week. IIRC he is a GURPS fan
00:19:56 <rolebot> 0 successes (3 1 6 4 10 6)
00:19:57 <Vorpal> (and I just finished university, so I assume he is still going)
00:20:07 <Vorpal> kallisti, what is that WoD you mentioned?
00:20:26 <Vorpal> never heard of it, what genre is it?
00:20:47 <Vorpal> so it is kind of open-ended?
00:20:56 <Vorpal> not a specific setting
00:21:08 <kallisti> it's based on supernatural creatures. each major book is for a supernatural creature.
00:21:37 <kallisti> vampires, werewolves, fae, wraiths (ghosts), magi, etc
00:22:11 <kallisti> it's an interesting mix of traditional folktale with a unique spin on each.
00:22:18 <Vorpal> reminds me a bit of that new MMORPG coming out soon. Secret World I think the name was. Pretty cool idea for it. Basically set in the modern day, but with every conspiracy theory true. Illumnati, templars and so on. Lovecraft inspired too iirc.
00:22:24 <kallisti> Vampire is very much based on Anne Rice novels.
00:22:33 <kallisti> Vorpal: yes it reminded me of it too.
00:22:52 <Vorpal> not sure what the Anne Rice model of vampirism is
00:22:54 <kallisti> the difference being that WoD is way more awesome. :P
00:23:43 <Vorpal> kallisti, probably, from what I saw, Secret World had hotkey based combat. Meh.
00:23:52 <kallisti> crosses and garlic don't work. a stake to the heart puts the vampire in paralysis.
00:24:21 <kallisti> transmittal doesn't occur from being bitten. the vampire drains all of your blood, and then feeds you his/her ow.
00:24:33 <Vorpal> I have to admit the vampire model I'm most famous with is the Discworld model. Which is over the top.
00:24:47 <Vorpal> why did I write famous XD
00:24:59 <kallisti> WoD vampire is interesting. you can play it very political, if you want.
00:25:06 <kallisti> there's a whole society and such.
00:25:25 <Vorpal> kallisti, how do their werewolves work?
00:25:27 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
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00:25:40 <Vorpal> I always found werewolves more interesting than vampires
00:26:13 -!- itidus20 has changed nick to itidus21.
00:26:43 <Vorpal> kallisti, how does it work then?
00:27:17 <kallisti> the werewolves deviate more from traditional folktale. they live in packs as opposed to being solitary monsters. they can shapeshift at will. they can traverse the Umbra (the spirit world) and talk to spirits. they're servants of Gaia in a war against "the Wyrm" which is basically a metaphor for corruption in whatever form you want to interpret it.
00:27:40 <Vorpal> kallisti, and full moon?
00:27:50 <Vorpal> does it force shifting or anything at all?
00:27:53 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
00:27:53 <kallisti> there's also some interesting tech-based stuff. There's a tribe called the Glass Walkers which are "urban werewolves." the theme is high-tech.
00:28:08 <Vorpal> wow, that is pretty nice
00:28:15 <kallisti> Vorpal: the first time a werewolf shifts is involuntary, and they lose control of themselves.
00:28:51 <kallisti> also it's not just "werewolf". there's a full spectrum from human to wolf, with 5 forms.
00:29:06 <kallisti> there's also "breed", which is your original form. you could play as a werewolf that was born a wolf, for example.
00:29:42 <kallisti> and then the metis breed is born as a werewolf, which happens when 2 werewolves mate. they're usually deformed in some way, and it's seen as a crime to do so.
00:29:52 <kallisti> (which is a convenient way to keep away furries in an online setting. :D )
00:30:28 <Vorpal> kallisti, with online you mean on computer? Or is that a weird way to describe LARPing?
00:30:36 <itidus21> lol @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_werewolves
00:30:42 <kallisti> I used to play on a RP-only MUD.
00:30:53 <kallisti> it was basically a MUD with any kind of combat/mob logic stripped out, with dice rollers added in.
00:30:55 <Vorpal> why did rolebot just say error?
00:31:09 <itidus21> as opposed to werewolves which are non-fiction
00:31:18 <monqy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_werewolves
00:31:18 <rolebot> Category:Fictional werewolves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
00:31:27 <monqy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_werewolves
00:31:40 <itidus21> "Werewolves that appear only in legend or folklore do not belong in this category."
00:31:43 <Vorpal> what if I link an image
00:31:44 <kallisti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat*egory:Fictional_werewolves*
00:31:46 <rolebot> Cat*egory:Fictional werewolves* - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
00:31:50 <kallisti> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_werewolves
00:31:52 <Vorpal> will it download the whole thing?
00:32:15 <monqy> https://www.google.com/images/srpr/logo3w.png
00:32:33 <itidus21> it will download all things... at once!
00:32:40 <Vorpal> hm I don't have any iso file up
00:32:42 <kallisti> I don't do any Content-Type checking or anything
00:32:55 <Vorpal> hopefully it just download the first n bytes
00:33:14 <kallisti> (perl terminology for "reads the whole thing into memory")
00:33:32 <shachaf> monqy: You like lojban, right?
00:33:48 <kallisti> though it may depend on context.
00:33:55 <shachaf> monqy: Are you going to the BIG EVENT!
00:34:03 <Vorpal> kallisti, now you know I /will/ post a 12 GB file of space on a server and make it serve it gzip compressed :P
00:34:14 <Vorpal> kallisti, it is going to happen unless you fix the bot :P
00:34:28 <Vorpal> I thought it read the whole thing?
00:34:48 <Vorpal> kallisti, well 32 GB then :P
00:35:05 <Vorpal> kallisti, or can't the bot handle gzip compressed resources?
00:35:22 <Vorpal> in that case I'm going to make it serve it uncompressed I guess
00:38:36 <kallisti> yeah I'm not seeing an option to be less slurpy
00:39:14 <Vorpal> kallisti, so basically what I described could cause OOM?
00:39:19 -!- nortti_ has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )).
00:39:59 <Vorpal> nortti, you use an android irc client?
00:40:07 <Vorpal> I guess I should take a look at that one
00:40:30 <Vorpal> also why does rythmbox seem crashed
00:43:03 <zzo38> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_werewolves <CTCP>
00:43:22 <Vorpal> zzo38, I can't click that link, what did you do?
00:43:37 <Vorpal> my irc client usually makeslinks clickable
00:43:47 <zzo38> I put control characters in
00:44:13 <Vorpal> zzo38, it does show a [0001] at the end
00:44:16 <zzo38> Does it copy to clipboard OK?
00:44:34 <Vorpal> zzo38, double clicking it makes it highlight this bit "n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_werewolve"
00:44:40 <Vorpal> so no I can't easily copy it
00:45:07 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:45:22 <zzo38> Select the entire message (including the parts at the end) copy to channel see what happened.
00:45:31 -!- kallisti has joined.
00:45:36 <Vorpal> manually selecting and pasting yields:<zzo38> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_werewolves <CTCP>
00:45:48 <kallisti> Content-Length is bytes right?
00:45:58 -!- rolebot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:46:25 <zzo38> OK, something with your IRC client; they differ so we cannot really know what each one does
00:46:39 <Vorpal> kallisti, I think that describe the size of the whole thing
00:46:47 <Vorpal> though a server could be made to lie
00:47:38 <Vorpal> kallisti, a accurate server would I think with Content-Length describe the uncompressed size
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00:49:20 <rolebot> Time in Test, Indonesia (GMT+7): 2012-07-06 07:49
00:50:44 <kallisti> I was trying to equate Content-Type to text/html
00:51:02 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: load: not found
00:52:01 <kallisti> I wonder how much traffic the example domains get.
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01:36:08 <rolebot> Time in UTC: 2012-07-06 01:36
01:42:27 <rolebot> Time in Utopia, Australia (GMT+10): 2012-07-06 11:42
01:54:34 <itidus21> the distance from me to utopia is probably a very long way
01:55:06 <rolebot> Time in Time, Indonesia (GMT+7): 2012-07-06 08:55
01:55:23 <rolebot> Time in Climax, Canada (GMT-6): 2012-07-05 19:55
01:55:38 <rolebot> Time in Cumming, United States Of America (GMT-5): 2012-07-05 20:55
01:55:38 <rolebot> Time in Cumming, United States Of America (GMT-5): 2012-07-05 20:55
01:55:57 <kallisti> 21:55 < kallisti> $time cumming
01:55:58 <kallisti> 21:55 < quintopia> $time cumming
01:56:27 <quintopia> its not who says it first. it's who says "owe me a coke" first :P
01:57:15 <rolebot> Time in Hoppers, Germany (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 03:57
01:57:25 <rolebot> Time in Hoppers Crossing, Australia (GMT+10): 2012-07-06 11:57
01:58:19 <rolebot> Time in Happy, United States Of America (GMT-4): 2012-07-05 21:58
01:58:33 <kallisti> the API actually can grab multiple locations
01:58:37 <kallisti> but I always take the first one.
01:58:42 <rolebot> Time in sad, Safford, United States (GMT-7): 2012-07-05 18:58
01:58:57 <rolebot> Time in eso, Espanola, United States (GMT-6): 2012-07-05 19:58
01:59:03 <rolebot> Time in Esotreaky, Madagascar (GMT+3): 2012-07-06 04:59
01:59:34 <rolebot> Time in Dope, Sri Lanka (GMT+5.50): 2012-07-06 07:29
01:59:43 <rolebot> Time in Befu, Japan (GMT+9): 2012-07-06 10:59
01:59:43 <rolebot> Time in Boring, Denmark (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 03:59
01:59:59 <rolebot> Time in Brain, France (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 03:59
02:00:02 <rolebot> Time in new, Lakefront, United States (GMT-5): 2012-07-05 21:00
02:00:26 <rolebot> Time in Fuckersberg, Austria (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 04:00
02:00:59 <rolebot> Time in Fucking, Austria (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 04:00
02:01:52 <rolebot> Time in Dick, Mozambique (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 04:01
02:01:57 <rolebot> Time in Cockeysville, United States Of America (GMT-4): 2012-07-05 22:01
02:02:10 <rolebot> Time in Crook, United Kingdom (GMT+1): 2012-07-06 03:02
02:02:18 <rolebot> Time in Jaila, Liberia (GMT+0): 2012-07-06 02:02
02:02:37 <rolebot> Time in Scumpia, Moldova (GMT+3): 2012-07-06 05:02
02:02:41 <quintopia> so i guess there is no road to perdition
02:03:26 <rolebot> Time in Micro, United States Of America (GMT-4): 2012-07-05 22:03
02:03:58 <rolebot> Time in Hell, Norway (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 04:03
02:04:03 <rolebot> Time in Heaven Heights, United States Of America (GMT-4): 2012-07-05 22:04
02:04:18 <rolebot> Time in Road, Ireland (GMT+1): 2012-07-06 03:04
02:04:29 <rolebot> Time in Cube, Ecuador (GMT-5): 2012-07-05 21:04
02:04:46 <rolebot> Time in Poly, Haiti (GMT-5): 2012-07-05 21:04
02:04:50 <rolebot> Time in Polyginskaya, Russia (GMT+4): 2012-07-06 06:04
02:05:28 <rolebot> Time in Obama, Japan (GMT+9): 2012-07-06 11:05
02:08:26 <rolebot> Time in Limbo, Philippines (GMT+8): 2012-07-06 10:08
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02:09:03 <rolebot> Time in sun, Sun Valley, United States (GMT-6): 2012-07-05 20:09
02:10:28 <rolebot> Time in Moon, France (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 04:10
02:10:36 <rolebot> Time in Venus, Angola (GMT+1): 2012-07-06 03:10
02:10:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:10:43 <rolebot> Time in Mercury, United States Of America (GMT-5): 2012-07-05 21:10
02:10:49 <rolebot> Time in Mars, Belarus (GMT+3): 2012-07-06 05:10
02:10:54 <rolebot> Time in Jupiter, United States Of America (GMT-4): 2012-07-05 22:10
02:11:00 <rolebot> Time in Saturn, Russia (GMT+7): 2012-07-06 09:11
02:11:25 <oerjan> ...someone didn't want to be part of that joke.
02:11:32 <rolebot> Time in Neptune, Canada (GMT-6): 2012-07-05 20:11
02:11:51 <rolebot> Time in Earth, United States Of America (GMT-5): 2012-07-05 21:11
02:12:44 <rolebot> Time in Siriusu, Japan (GMT+9): 2012-07-06 11:12
02:13:19 <rolebot> Time in Shirley, United States Of America (GMT-4): 2012-07-05 22:13
02:13:30 <rolebot> Time in Pluto, Philippines (GMT+8): 2012-07-06 10:13
02:16:09 <rolebot> Time in Ceres, South Africa (GMT+2): 2012-07-06 04:16
02:16:14 <rolebot> Time in Eris, Indonesia (GMT+8): 2012-07-06 10:16
02:16:33 <kallisti> https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/advisory/2719615
02:16:35 <rolebot> Microsoft Security Advisory (2719615): Vulnerability in Microsoft XML Core Services Could Allow Remote Code Execution
02:16:37 <rolebot> Time in Kallisti, Greece (GMT+3): 2012-07-06 05:16
02:17:18 <kallisti> so this was announced June 12, and was known by attackers before it was announced.
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04:00:50 <zzo38> I had idea make up a card in Magic: the Gathering that makes all objects the same name until the end of the turn.
04:06:05 <zzo38> The card could specify the name, or it could be made to allow the player who used the card to select the name from any card that both players can see.
04:07:51 <zzo38> There are some things that happen regardless of which way it is, such as legendary permanents being discarded and the Urza Tower only provide one mana.
04:09:05 <zzo38> And if you have a card that allow you to guess the name of card in opponent's hand you can guess for sure (if they have any cards) unless they get discarded or shuffled or they draw new cards or whatever (since in most cases, objects are reset if they move to another zone).
04:11:58 <zzo38> But of course if it does even affect cards in hand you still would have to know which cards have been just picked up and so on
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06:27:42 <itidus21> http://www.ezo-beer.com/pictures/logos/fucking-hell.jpg
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06:58:11 <zzo38> I use Linux but not here
07:13:48 <Dovregubben> I had to install SolidWorks for school.... so I installed windows (xp) on my own hardware for the first time in a decade
07:13:52 <zzo38> I don't like Windows much either
07:14:03 <Dovregubben> now it's clobbering grub every time I boot to Windows
07:14:20 <zzo38> But Windows is what I currently have in my computer
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07:15:34 <Dovregubben> I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say:
07:15:55 <zzo38> Complain to SolidWorks; they make software that mixes up the bootloader so you have to somehow override the Windows system call to instead make it write a file
07:16:08 <zzo38> Or install a second hard drive
07:16:15 <fizzie> I think I've had an XP in a dual-boot thing and it only clobbered grub when installing.
07:16:42 <Dovregubben> "I would totally use Linux if I could play [Diablo, WoW, Skyrim, etc...]
07:16:43 <zzo38> You may have to complain to Windows too
07:16:58 <zzo38> Dovregubben: I don't play any of those games on my computer
07:17:21 <zzo38> Maybe install a second hard drive that might fix it.
07:17:26 <fizzie> Certainly pre-XP and post-XP versions have been reasonably grub-friendly, so I'd assume XP "normally" is too.
07:17:48 <zzo38> O, it is laptop computer.
07:18:24 <zzo38> I have written many computer games and play some computer games, often DOS games
07:18:37 <zzo38> Dovregubben: Because my computer included it and I did not change it.
07:18:37 <fizzie> Dovregubben: You can always do the grub-in-Windows-boot-menu thing if you think that might work better.
07:20:33 <fizzie> (The "let Windows have the MBR, install grub on a boot sector somewhere, dd it into a file, add it into boot.ini" thing, that is.)
07:23:04 <Dovregubben> screw it.... I'll just live with booting from USB until the end of the quarter
07:23:47 <zzo38> I don't like Diablo, WoW, Skyrim, etc. Game I play are often text-adventure games, game I made myself using QBASIC, games designed for NES/Famicom (although I have not yet written any NES game), game with MegaZeux (I have made some MegaZeux games too), etc.
07:24:44 <zzo38> I did not feel offended
07:25:07 <zzo38> Nor do I care; I believe in freedom of speech.
07:26:10 <Dovregubben> I just can't think of a single reason for the average user to use windows other than video games
07:26:49 <fizzie> How about things like SolidWorks?-)
07:27:03 <fizzie> I guess that depends on the definition.
07:27:07 <Dovregubben> I will admit that I have a windows virtual machine for the one time a year that I actually need Window for something
07:27:13 <zzo38> I explained; the only reason I have it is because it already has Windows.
07:27:55 <zzo38> When the Windows breaks I will put Linux on.
07:28:13 <fizzie> I know someone who uses Linux exclusively but runs PowerPoint in VirtualBox for presentation-making purposes, since OpenOffice Impress is so bad, and he likes graphical presentation-making things.
07:29:07 <zzo38> Is OpenOffice Impress so bad? Some people hate OpenOffice but prefer LibreOffice. However I have seen someone who has used OpenOffice Impress to make any slideshow presentations they wanted
07:29:44 <fizzie> I'm sure it's not bad enough to be completely unusable, but I think it's pretty bad.
07:30:22 <fizzie> Also, if you have someone else's PowerPoint presentation to work from, it can in theory open those, but it almost always manages to mess up the formatting somehow. (The Writer component works slightly better when it comes to opening Word files.)
07:30:58 <zzo38> If I wanted to make a slideshow presentation I would probably make something myself but if I want to type a document for printing I will use TeX which is much faster than anything else I have seen.
07:31:17 <fizzie> I do slideshow presentations with the 'beamer' LaTeX package, it's got a lot of fans.
07:31:36 <fizzie> I've used Impress only to make PDF exports of other people's PowerPoint presentations just in case the lecture hall computer in question might not have PowerPoint installed. So far they've not been used.
07:31:40 <zzo38> Yes that is one other way.
07:34:39 <zzo38> I don't make slide presentations though. I prefer books.
07:35:17 <fizzie> People keep expecting presentations in the university context. Conference presentations, local seminar presentations, group meeting presentations, ...
07:37:07 <Dovregubben> if I have the option, I write my presentations in HTML
07:37:34 <zzo38> The program "dviout" includes a presentation mode. This is for Windows though; there may be similar thing for Linux.
07:37:46 <zzo38> Yes, HTML also works.
07:38:18 <Dovregubben> the nice thing about HTML is I don't need to bring my computer with me just to be sure I have the right software available
07:38:39 <Dovregubben> I think it's been almost 20 years since I saw a computer without a web browser
07:38:51 <Dovregubben> and if I ever want to make a web site out of it, I'm already done!
07:39:00 <zzo38> (I have used LaTeX once, but I don't like it much and I find Plain TeX to be far superior)
07:39:48 <Dovregubben> I tried LaTeX once... didn't have time to learn how to use it
07:40:48 <zzo38> I have seen and use computer without a web browser even recently, as well as install them. I installed a computer with FreeDOS once to make a database someone needed
07:40:49 <Dovregubben> or maybe it wasn't LaTeX.... it was something TeX
07:41:31 <zzo38> There is Plain TeX, LaTeX, and ConTeXt, which are the common ones. There are others too, though
07:41:51 <Dovregubben> I've seen hundreds of servers without web browsers
07:42:26 <Dovregubben> although I have installed Links on a few :-D
07:43:07 <fizzie> Makes for a pretty retro presentations, though, at least if it's not one of those fancy graphical linksies.
07:43:37 <zzo38> If the computer is Windows or Ubuntu or something then it will include a web browser; if it is my own design it doesn't include any (if you have an internet connection, it will include netcat and so on) but you can install one
07:43:49 <Dovregubben> I didn't install Links for presentation purposes :-P
07:44:29 <fizzie> I wonder if anyone at our university has ever given a text-mode presentation in a place where a "traditional PowerPoint" was expected.
07:45:14 <fizzie> (I'm sure someone's shown a terminal on a projector for one reason or another.)
07:46:52 <Dovregubben> I've had a terminal open on a projector before
07:47:24 <zzo38> I use TeX for writing documentation, for recording Dungeons&Dragons game, for mathematical formulas, for business cards, for posters, for etc
07:47:30 <fizzie> So have I, and it was done as part of a presentation, but it was just an intermission, and the rest was traditional slides.
07:50:00 <zzo38> I have written a program in Plain TeX and METAFONT to typeset chess diagrams including moves and chess variants too. It will parse algebraic chess notation and FFEN, and you can make variants using different pieces (the font includes many piece icons), different moves, different size of board, etc
07:50:24 <zzo38> Have you ever used METAFONT for anything?
07:51:38 <zzo38> Do you like METAFONT?
07:52:23 <fizzie> I never METAFONT I didn't like. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) (No, I haven't actually used METAFONT.)
07:54:12 <zzo38> It is very good to design logos and typefaces and so on.
07:58:08 <zzo38> (Including in colors; I have written a program to allow METAFONT to use all features of ImageMagick as well as its own features to create graphics.)
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08:57:13 <nortti> < Vorpal> nortti, you use an android irc client? // yes. why?
08:57:47 <fizzie> Just a guess, but I think he
08:57:52 <fizzie> 's looking for a good one.
08:58:02 <fizzie> Because he asked about that earlier, too.
08:58:14 <nortti> ok. then don't use androirc
08:58:48 <nortti> use (irssi)? connectbot to connect to shell account and run irssi from there
09:04:56 <fizzie> I think it's a bit weird that these style rules that abbreviate "Equation (x)" to "Eq. (x)" also do "Equations (a) and (b)" into "Eqs. (a) and (b)" even though the . there is not properly denoting "rest of word missing". I mean, it's not "Eqsuation".
09:05:19 <fizzie> "In British English, according to Hart's Rules, the general rule is that abbreviations (in the narrow sense that includes only words with the ending, and not the middle, dropped) terminate with a full stop (period), whereas contractions (in the sense of words missing a middle part) do not. -- In American English, the period is usually included."
09:05:35 <fizzie> I'm under the impression that general Finnish rules do the former thing.
09:07:05 <fizzie> I guess plurals could also be following different rules.
09:16:29 <fizzie> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920015482.do "Using the latest research in cognitive science and learning theory to craft a multi-sensory learning experience, Head First C uses a visually rich format designed for the way your brain works, not a text-heavy approach that puts you to sleep."
09:16:34 <fizzie> That's quite a book blurb.
09:16:35 <rolebot> Head First C - O'Reilly Media
09:17:37 <fizzie> rolebot: You should also check the sentence containing the URL, not just the URL itself, when you figure out whether whatever you're going to say has any new information. I mean, both O'Reilly and Head First C were already mentioned.
09:18:28 <monqy> thanks rolebot for verifying fizzie isn't a dirty liar
09:24:04 <fizzie> This is how the programming book starts: http://users.ics.aalto.fi/htkallas/headfirst.png
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09:53:04 <nortti> I think I know why trying to compile with oonbotti's #cc doesn't work. c2bf is not compiled
10:14:30 <nortti> do you know how to associate external program to url scheme on links2
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10:28:36 <mroman> Is that esther something on the picture?
10:30:20 <oklopol> my talk is in about an hour :o
10:38:41 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, it's happening again.
10:39:11 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie.
10:39:13 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +q rolebot!*@*.
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10:39:35 <fizzie> Oh, it's a Russianpol.
10:39:54 <fizzie> Are you giving the talk in Russian, too?
10:42:31 <oklopol> i have never been to a place with this few english speakers
10:43:33 <fizzie> I was in a conference in St. Petersburg once.
10:43:40 <oklopol> one of the russians did a great imitation of weebl and bob instead of giving his talk.
10:43:46 <fizzie> Those people did speak English, though.
10:44:20 <fizzie> Well, I didn't really speak to other people than those at the conference.
10:44:23 <oklopol> but otherwise, i have not seen one person who speaks english. in fact, even if you speak russian to people, they run away if you sound foreign.
10:44:59 <oklopol> i've been really social here, basically wasted the whole conference.
10:45:25 <fizzie> The travel agency our university is contractually obligated to use woke me up at 6am today by SMSing me flight ticket information.
10:45:39 <fizzie> I guess it was 7am Finnish time, but it's still kinda early.
10:45:59 <fizzie> Probably some sort of an automated system.
10:46:59 <oklopol> soooo, they film all the talks.
10:47:16 <oklopol> i have this horrible flu and it's possible that during the talk i sneeze and snot just flies everywhere.
10:47:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Cambridge rang me up in person at ten past eight to ask me if I wanted seperate accomodation during my pre-interview maths test.
10:48:04 <fizzie> oklopol: At least they'll be able to identify you as "patient zero" for the eventual pandemic, then.
10:48:15 <Phantom_Hoover> This was on a school day, mind; I was about to walk out the door when this happened.
10:48:47 <oklopol> so did you want seperete accomodation
10:49:11 <fizzie> Today was a workday too, but I sure wasn't about to walk out the door at 6am. Nobody seems to be here before 10am anyway. (I come in at 9am as a compromise.)
10:50:02 <oklopol> there's a guy in our uni who comes to work around 00:00
10:50:19 <oklopol> and i don't mean myself :D
10:51:31 <oklopol> so is it like a thing that every conference has a really old dudde who still uses handwritten slides?
10:51:47 <fizzie> It sounds like a math conference thing, to be honest.
10:52:06 <oklopol> this is a computer science conference
10:52:16 <oklopol> i've never been to a math conference
10:52:43 <fizzie> I don't think I've seen any handwritten slides, but maybe I picked the wrong sessions to attend.
10:53:17 <oklopol> there was this guy in a conference who used two overhead projectors and occasionally also showed slides manually.
10:53:42 <oklopol> it actually worked pretty well because he could keep definitions up
10:54:29 <oklopol> usually when the proof starts there's no way to find the definitions unless you have the ability of remembering or are willing to open the proceedings.
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10:55:07 <fizzie> Last time I went anywhere I just got the proceedings on a USB stick. :/
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10:56:00 <mroman> I should probably add access restrictions to some commands :D
10:56:02 <fizzie> It was not such a terribly cheap one. But it was a big one, and I guess they thought a thousand-page book would've been a lot to carry.
10:56:16 <oklopol> which conference was this?
10:56:43 <oklopol> the proceedings here are like a couple hundred pages
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10:57:09 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>
10:57:09 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 110, '-': 10, '[': 1, '.': 0, ']': 10, '<': 10, '>': 11}; Completed in 152 cycles; Used 2 cells
10:57:14 <fizzie> Interspeech 2011. They've turned off the paper search function already, so I can't check how many there were.
10:57:17 <oklopol> stlangbot: don't disconnect
10:57:17 <stlangbot> [oklopol] Only you can understand you. I don't.
10:57:19 <fizzie> They printed a book of abstracts, though.
10:57:39 <oklopol> paper *search*? not a list?
10:58:05 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat +>+>++>+<[>[-<++++>]<<]>
10:58:06 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 133, '-': 32, '[': 4, '.': 0, ']': 35, '<': 39, '>': 39}; Completed in 282 cycles; Used 5 cells
10:58:09 <oklopol> i guess this is a few orders of magnitude bigger than the conferences i've ben to
10:58:13 <fizzie> No, it was a web thing.
10:58:20 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_cu +>+>++>+<[>[-<++++>]<<]>
10:58:21 <stlangbot> [mroman] Cells used: [0, 1, 2, 3, 255]
10:58:39 <mroman> hm. According to the wikipage it should only use 4 cells.
10:58:42 <oklopol> yeah but why search and not just a page with the list of papers
10:58:57 <fizzie> It'd be a long list, I suppose.
10:59:01 <mroman> and it even goes to the left.
10:59:05 <fizzie> They mentioned the amount of papers in the opening ceremony, of course, but I forgot it already.
10:59:22 <oklopol> there were 66 submissions here.
10:59:35 <oklopol> forty something accepted ones
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10:59:55 <fizzie> Break a leg, or whatever they say.
10:59:59 <fizzie> They say something like that.
11:00:05 <fizzie> It means a good thing even if it doesn't sound like it.
11:00:15 <oklopol> it sounds like a great thing
11:00:20 <oklopol> i wouldn't have to give the talk
11:00:24 <fizzie> I suppose it might mean someone else's leg.
11:00:33 <oklopol> the result is most likely wrong and everyone will laugh
11:00:38 <oklopol> :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
11:00:43 <fizzie> I think they'd only snicker.
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11:01:52 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_cu +>+>++>+<[>[-<++++>]<<]>
11:01:53 <stlangbot> [mroman] Cells used: [0, 1, 2, 3, 255]; Last active cell:0
11:02:27 <mroman> oklopol: Now you can tell him to disconnect ;)
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11:03:34 <fizzie> Oh, it goes up to 255 now?
11:04:21 <stlangbot> bf_cu (Brainfuck cell usage); stlang (Evaluate stlang); bf_stat (Brainfuck statistics)
11:04:22 <stlangbot> bf_cu: MAX_CELLS := 256; stlang : MAX_CALLS := 20000
11:04:44 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat +[>+]
11:05:30 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat >-[>-[<]>+>-]<
11:05:31 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 487, '-': 975, '[': 488, '.': 0, ']': 1936, '<': 1450, '>': 1462}; Completed in 6798 cycles; Used 15 cells
11:07:11 <mroman> If you want to waste 6700 Cycles just to save one byte in order to produce 135
11:09:17 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat +[->]
11:09:18 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 1, '-': 1, '[': 1, '.': 0, ']': 1, '<': 0, '>': 1}; Completed in 5 cycles; Used 2 cells
11:09:27 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat +>[->]
11:09:28 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 1, '-': 0, '[': 1, '.': 0, ']': 0, '<': 0, '>': 1}; Completed in 3 cycles; Used 2 cells
11:09:53 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat +>[->-]
11:09:54 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 1, '-': 0, '[': 1, '.': 0, ']': 0, '<': 0, '>': 1}; Completed in 3 cycles; Used 2 cells
11:09:59 <fizzie> stlangbot: bf_stat -[>+]
11:09:59 <stlangbot> [fizzie] {',': 0, '+': 256, '-': 1, '[': 1, '.': 0, ']': 256, '<': 0, '>': 256}; Completed in 770 cycles; Used 256 cells
11:10:12 <mroman> That was what I was looking for.
11:10:19 <fizzie> Or +[>-] equivalently.
11:11:26 <mroman> Is it actually possible to count the number of cells and return that number in the first cell?
11:11:38 <mroman> given the number of cells available is < 256
11:12:12 <mroman> I haven't found a way to move at any point to a specific cell
11:12:20 <mroman> increment it and move back to where I came from.
11:16:03 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat +[->-]
11:17:19 <fizzie> I would think it is, with something like -[>+]>-<<<[>[-<+>]<<]>[-<<+>>]<<++ (untested, probably has bugs).
11:17:53 <fizzie> I.e. "set all cells to 1, set two first to 0, then until we hit an empty one keep summing things up".
11:18:09 <fizzie> Possibly doable with just the single 0 marker at the first cell.
11:20:35 <fizzie> -[>+]<[>[-<+>]<<]>[-<+>]<+ or something, equally untested.
11:21:28 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat -[>+]<[>[-<+>]<<]>[-<+>]<+
11:21:50 <mroman> I should increase the timeout a little bit :)
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11:22:10 <fizzie> ^bf -[>+]<[>[-<+>]<<]>[-<+>]<.
11:23:43 <fizzie> That's 231, because I removed the last +. 1000%256 == 232, and I think fungot has 1000 cells in the tape.
11:23:44 <fungot> fizzie: perl is made to bacame cum after 2 hours of more testing and...
11:23:59 <fizzie> So I'd provisionally say it works.
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11:24:07 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat -[>+]<[>[-<+>]<<]>[-<+>]<+
11:24:22 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat -[>+]<[>[-<+>]<<]>[-<+>]<.
11:24:37 <mroman> It does not complete in 64000 Cycles :)
11:24:58 <fizzie> It is a bit of an O(N^2) algorithm probably.
11:25:13 <fizzie> And each of those copying loops will take 5 cycles per iteration.
11:25:50 <mroman> Completed in 134676 cycles
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11:26:54 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_in -[>+]<[>[-<+>]<<]>[-<+>]<.
11:26:56 <fizzie> Theoretically I would've expected it to be somewhere in the ballpark of 255*255/2*5, but it seems to be a bit less.
11:28:23 <fizzie> (About 255 summing loops, each doing on average 255/2 iterations, each iteration taking 5 cycles.)
11:28:40 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat -[>+]<[>[-<+>]<<]>[-<+>]<.
11:28:41 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 32896, '-': 32641, '[': 258, '.': 1, ']': 33151, '<': 33152, '>': 33152}; Completed in 165251 cycles; Used 256 cells
11:30:58 <fizzie> Oh hey, it's quite close then.
11:31:07 <fizzie> The 134676 number surprised me, is all.
11:31:16 <mroman> fizzie: That was with 231 cells.
11:31:55 <fizzie> There's of course a bit of overhead for moving around and so.
11:32:08 <fizzie> I'm sure you could give an exact formula.
11:32:18 <mroman> I count [ and ] as cycles too.
11:32:32 <fizzie> Yes, I counted the ]s in the copying loop.
11:32:48 <fizzie> The [s don't seem to be executed except on entry, based on those statistics.
11:32:57 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat -[]
11:33:16 <mroman> That's why I count them too :)
11:33:43 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat [>-]
11:33:43 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 0, '-': 0, '[': 1, '.': 0, ']': 0, '<': 0, '>': 0}; Completed in 1 cycles; Used 1 cells
11:33:48 <fizzie> Well, it makes sense. fungot counts the jumps too.
11:33:50 <fungot> fizzie: it seems to have implemented and played with the bb gui egg before? i mean.
11:33:53 <mroman> stlangbot: bf_stat +[>-]
11:33:54 <stlangbot> [mroman] {',': 0, '+': 1, '-': 256, '[': 1, '.': 0, ']': 256, '<': 0, '>': 256}; Completed in 770 cycles; Used 256 cells
11:34:01 <fizzie> Though it doesn't exactly count bf cycles but the internal bytecode cycles.
11:34:54 <mroman> It counts [ only once.
11:36:16 <nortti> is there a way to download single packages from pkgsrc instead of the whole fucking thing?
11:36:48 <nortti> tar xzf:ing that thing on qemu on my computer is not fun
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11:45:51 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 5 .(s;i<-;i \
11:46:17 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M .55(s;i<-;i* \
11:46:23 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M .5(s;i<-;i \
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11:46:42 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M .5(s;i<-;i5* \
11:46:56 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M '. 5 * \
11:47:01 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 5 '. * \
11:48:03 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M pi .(s;i<-;i \
11:48:27 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M pi .(s;i<-;i;i(i \
11:50:41 <fizzie> Such a critical bot, always complaining about people's programs.
11:51:06 <mroman> He does not know how to politely report errors yet :(
11:51:21 <mroman> stlangbot: setnote err|Report errors politely
11:51:50 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M .12(,(` \
11:51:58 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M .12(, \
11:52:20 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M .12(, unpair \
11:52:26 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M .12(,(` \
11:52:28 <fizzie> Uh... in addition to "Meat tree with cauliflower", next Monday's lunch list contains "Hungarian castle cemetary stew with tree trunks". These are very esoteric foods.
11:52:54 <mroman> stlangbot: setnote unpair|Is ` special cased?
11:53:10 <nortti> fizzie: where are you?
11:53:36 <fizzie> Leuven, to be precise.
11:55:05 <mroman> Stlang has just so many functions it's frustrating to document them now :(
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11:56:16 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M .12(,(] \
11:56:23 <fizzie> It's "Graveyard stew from the Hungarian castles, with tree trunks" if I ask Google translate, which leads me to wonder if the English menu is made with machine translation too.
11:56:34 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
11:56:57 <fizzie> Also, I'm not sure I want to know what graveyard/cemetery stew is.
11:58:46 <fizzie> Milk poured over toasted and buttered bread, suggests Google.
11:59:41 <fizzie> Equally unsure on how exactly are Hungarian castles involved.
12:02:06 <mroman> 137 builtin-functions :(
12:02:34 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 123 0x \
12:02:59 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 123 (i) 0x \
12:04:16 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 'Hello,World '^Hello,\s(.*)$ =~ 0 g \
12:04:24 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 'Hello,World '^Hello,(.*)$ =~ 0 g \
12:05:27 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 0 1 100 {sqrt) \F \
12:05:36 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 0 1 100 {sqrt) /F \
12:05:48 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 0 1 100 {sqrt} /F \
12:06:26 <mroman> for does not collect the stack.
12:07:18 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M pi .(s;i<-;i;i(i(s# \
12:07:18 <stlangbot> [mroman] ['5', '3', '5', '6', '2', '9', '5', '1', '4', '1']
12:07:49 <oklopol> now i don't need you anymore
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12:08:04 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M pi .(s;i<-;i;i(i(s # | mi \
12:08:05 <stlangbot> [mroman] [[5, 3, 5, 6, 2, 9, 5, 1, 4, 1]]
12:08:16 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M ?2 pi .(s;i<-;i;i(i(s # | mi m \
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13:03:13 <fizzie> Did you talk them into a swamp in the true ur-Finnish way?
13:03:29 <oklopol> there was even a question :o
13:03:50 <oklopol> "does this generalize to the multidimensional case?"
13:03:56 <fizzie> Did you have a good answer to the question?
13:04:16 <Vorpal> <fizzie> Did you talk them into a swamp in the true ur-Finnish way? <-- what?
13:04:23 <Vorpal> I need to read the log I guess
13:04:25 <oklopol> it would be cool because it would mean Game of Life is a product of idempotent CA.
13:04:35 <fizzie> Vorpal: oklopol had a conference talk.
13:04:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, what does "talk them into a swamp" mean?
13:04:47 <fizzie> Vorpal: And Vainamoinen sings someone into a swamp in Kalevala.
13:05:22 <fizzie> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/TheKalevala "Magic Music"
13:05:42 <Vorpal> hey, tvtropes links are open warfare ;P
13:06:34 <fizzie> Also it needs some dots in the a's, I'm just hampered by this keyboard.
13:06:48 <fizzie> Maybe I should configure a compose key.
13:07:28 <oklopol> so you're not in finland i deduce? (i actually deduced this earlier already)
13:07:39 <fizzie> Väinämöinen. Yes, that's much better.
13:07:53 <fizzie> oklopol: I'm on my one-month Belgium visit.
13:08:12 <Vorpal> I was under the impression that it would last a few days
13:08:19 <Vorpal> so what is Belgium like?
13:08:32 <oklopol> fizzie: i don't recall this, perhaps i have been away too much.
13:08:33 <fizzie> It's been rather warm so far. And the keyboards are all funny.
13:08:55 <fizzie> oklopol: http://www.esat.kuleuven.be/
13:09:00 <Vorpal> oklopol, the EU parliament?
13:09:11 <fizzie> The funniest thing so far has been the lunch menu, I've mentioned those here on-channel.
13:09:24 <Vorpal> I haven't seen those mentions
13:09:33 <Vorpal> Why are the menus funny?
13:09:37 <fizzie> Monday: "Meat tree with cauliflower" and "Hungarian castle cemetary stew with tree trunks",
13:09:52 <Vorpal> fizzie, badly translated menu?
13:10:13 <oklopol> whoops, kinda just laughed out loud during a lecture
13:10:19 <fizzie> I'm not sure there is a good translation, the meat trees/tree trunks are some sort of a local thing apparently.
13:10:25 <Vorpal> oklopol, you are IRCing during a lecture?
13:10:44 <fizzie> Googling for "Boomstammetje" will give you pictures, they're some sort of cylindrical things.
13:11:01 <Vorpal> fizzie, what about the tree trunks bit though?
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13:11:07 <oklopol> no, i just usually stop listening after they tell me what they did unless it's really close to my area or it's not too technical.
13:11:13 <oklopol> and they are always very very technical
13:11:14 <fizzie> Vorpal: Tree trunks are the same thing as meat trees in this context.
13:11:27 <fizzie> oklopol: We have a frequent collaborator here, I think for this month we're doing some sort of a dereverberation thing.
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13:11:49 <oklopol> oh okay dereverberatification is one of my favorites too.
13:12:09 <itidus21> belgium has beer and comics as i understand it.. without actual research thats my stereotype
13:12:23 <itidus21> what a terrific basis for a nation
13:12:31 <oklopol> Vorpal: there's this characterization of star-free languages as the languages with an aperiodic syntactic monoid
13:12:40 <fizzie> Last ICASSP (it's a slightly more general signal processing conference than, say, Interspeech) the most interesting sessions were the image things I went to just for the funs.
13:12:45 <oklopol> and there exists one for languages of infinite words as well
13:13:07 <oklopol> what they proved is that the same characterization also works for languages where you have both finite and infinite words.
13:13:11 <fizzie> oklopol: Sounds kinda technical.
13:13:14 <itidus21> it's like the japan of the western world
13:13:34 <Vorpal> oklopol, yeah that is rather technical...
13:13:37 <oklopol> three first slides were interesting, then it's just full of symbols.
13:13:44 <oklopol> and i have a headache and probably a fever.
13:13:45 <Vorpal> oklopol, I have no clue what "aperiodic syntactic monoid" is
13:13:57 <itidus21> ^&^*^&)*@^#^#*&#*(# he-hey glavin
13:14:00 <fizzie> I don't know either, but I don't think it's periodic.
13:14:00 <oklopol> do you know what a monoid is?
13:14:29 <Vorpal> oklopol, I heard it explained once, but I don't remember the details at all.
13:14:48 <itidus21> again with the symbols and the students and the lectures running overtime..
13:14:49 <oklopol> a semigroup is a set plus a multiplication operation, which is associative
13:15:04 <Vorpal> oklopol, right, I know that
13:15:07 <oklopol> a monoid is a semigroup which has a special element 1 such that 1*a = a*1 = a for all a
13:15:21 <Vorpal> oh, that is pretty straight forward
13:16:00 <oklopol> an aperiodic monoid is a monoid M such that if you take any x \in M, then x^n = x^{n+1} for some M. so if you start multiplying x by itself, you get in a trivial loop (it's clear that you get in *some* loop if M is finite)
13:16:13 <oklopol> apparently this means exactly that M has no nontrivial subgroups.
13:16:43 <itidus21> oklopol: so, something that interests me as an idiot, is the question of rotating "objects" in a CA
13:16:43 <oklopol> (group being... well i suppose you know, monoid plus inverses)
13:16:45 <Vorpal> oklopol, uh, that aperiodic bit sounds like it is kind of periodic by you description?
13:16:51 <itidus21> i don't really know a better term than object
13:16:53 <Vorpal> what with the "trivial loop"
13:17:16 <itidus21> translation is kind of old hat
13:17:22 <itidus21> need to get some funky rotations
13:17:23 <oklopol> if M is finite, and you take the sequence x, x^2, x^3, x^4, ..., it has to get in a loop.
13:17:37 <oklopol> aperiodic says the loop is as trivial as possible.
13:17:51 <oklopol> now we have aperiodic monoids down, unfortunately that's that easy part
13:17:56 <Vorpal> oklopol, ah so it doesn't mean "not-periodic"?
13:18:18 <Vorpal> what about the "syntactic" part
13:19:04 <oklopol> the syntactic monoid of a language L means you say two words u and v are equal if for any words w and w', wuw' is in L iff wvw' is in L
13:19:16 <oklopol> so two words are considered the same if L cannot separate them, so to speak.
13:19:39 <oklopol> the syntactic monoid of L is the set of words divided by this relation (it's an equivalence relation)
13:19:54 <itidus21> so the trouble with rotation is that if a group of cells rotates around some particular cell, then that state has to be encoded somehow
13:19:55 <oklopol> ...yeah i'm pretty sure that's it :D
13:20:24 <Vorpal> oklopol, okay I understood all the words and even the entire sentence, but I'm not sure I understand the underlying concept.
13:20:37 <Vorpal> can you give an example of such a language?
13:21:12 <oklopol> there's a characterization: they are exactly the star-free languages
13:21:45 <Vorpal> well, that is kind of an interesting way to describe star-free languages I guess.
13:21:58 <Vorpal> not sure why it is an useful way to describe them though
13:22:11 <oklopol> for instance 1A^* + (001A^*)^c is star-free (to that's the words starting with 1 and all words not starting with 001)
13:22:19 <oklopol> so... that should have an aperiodic syntactic monoid
13:22:28 <oklopol> i'm not gonna check this :D
13:22:50 <Vorpal> oklopol, wait what, you had two kleene stars there... how is that star free?
13:23:05 <oklopol> A^* is the complement of the empty language
13:23:20 <Vorpal> I guess your notation confused me
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14:36:54 <mroman> stlangbot: df iisiiiisiiiiiiiioiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiioiiiiiiiooiiio
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14:37:04 <mroman> deadfish kills bots :D
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14:37:48 <mroman> stlangbot: df iisiiiisiiiiiiiioiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiioiiiiiiiooiiio
14:40:40 <mroman> stlangbot: df iissiissiissiisso
14:41:00 <mroman> stlangbot: df iso sucks
14:58:03 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 0 'iiiiddis f \ fn f .<+;h d ;t f \ fn f: .$@ \ fn d \ fn d:i .$<>I<> \ fn d:d .$<>D<> \ fn d:s .$<><+*<> \
14:58:20 <mroman> 137 functions but no chr or ord function :(
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14:58:45 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 0 'iiiiddiss f \ fn f .<+;h d ;t f \ fn f: .$@ \ fn d \ fn d:i .$<>I<> \ fn d:d .$<>D<> \ fn d:s .$<><+*<> \
15:00:39 <mroman> Must add chr and ord function :)
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15:03:43 <mroman> stlangbot: stlang M 0 'iiiiddiss f \ fn f .<+;h d ;t f \ fn f: .$;C \ fn d \ fn d:i .$<>I<> \ fn d:d .$<>D<> \ fn d:s .$<><+*<> \
15:06:41 <mroman> stlangbot: df iiiiddisso
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15:33:49 <shachaf> kallisti: Is your bot still here.
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15:35:23 <mroman> stlangbot: df iiiiiiiiiso
15:35:27 <kallisti> but apparently isn't responding
15:35:39 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiiiiisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiio
15:36:01 <mroman> stlangbot: df iiiiiiiiisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiio
15:37:13 <stlangbot> bf_cu (Brainfuck cell usage); stlang (Evaluate stlang); bf_stat (Brainfuck statistics)
15:37:13 <stlangbot> bf_cu: MAX_CELLS := 256; stlang : MAX_CALLS := 20000
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15:48:01 <stlangbot> bf_cu (Brainfuck cell usage); stlang (Evaluate stlang); bf_stat (Brainfuck statistics)
15:48:01 <stlangbot> bf_in (Brainfuck inspect last active cell); df (Deadfish); undf (Undeadfish)
15:48:38 <mroman> stlangbot: undf 314159
15:48:46 <stlangbot> [mroman] iissssiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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15:51:00 <mroman> stlangbot: undf 314159
15:51:01 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
15:51:29 <mroman> better than excess flood
15:51:33 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisiiiii
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17:10:29 <zzo38> Can any computer golf game allow the gravity and friction to be adjusted?
17:13:42 <zzo38> In this Top Rank Boxing game now there is six rounds. It used to be four rounds
17:16:12 <mroman> To allow the feeling of golfing on the moon?
17:16:29 <zzo38> mroman: Yes, to make golf on moon, etc
17:18:52 <mroman> Space golfing. Hit the ball in to the black hole.
17:19:04 <mroman> Gravity will do most of the work.
17:25:59 <edwardk> mroman: except that it never quite gets there =)
17:26:35 <mroman> Due to the time slowing down?
17:27:02 <zzo38> Is the center of a black hole the end of time?
17:37:44 <ion> Meanwhile in the USA http://youtu.be/pwSdzhi8-6A?t=6m
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17:49:32 <Phantom_Hoover> <mroman> Space golfing. Hit the ball in to the black hole.
17:53:34 <mroman> Enough with the "not quite" already.
17:54:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, for one thing, black holes aren't all-consuming cosmic funnels of total annihilation.
17:56:19 <Phantom_Hoover> Basically, something that would hit, say, the sun, would probably sail right past a black hole of the same mass.
18:02:04 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, wouldn't a black hole with the mass of the sun evaporate rather quickly from Hawking radiation (if that hypothesis is correct)
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18:19:26 <quintopia> is there a way to do ssh -L in the other direction? a command i can run on computer A that links A:p and B:p such that connections to B:p get forwarded over the secure channel to A:p?
18:21:05 <quintopia> Vorpal: hawking radiation isn't that quick of a process on a human scale.
18:22:21 <Vorpal> quintopia, -L is tunnel right?
18:22:28 <Vorpal> I know you can do tunnels both ways
18:22:33 <Vorpal> I don't remember the details though
18:22:46 <Vorpal> quintopia, read the man page?
18:22:57 <quintopia> yeah but i have to read the whole thing
18:23:15 <Vorpal> quintopia, "forward", "tunnel", "port"?
18:23:19 <Vorpal> one of those ought to work
18:23:55 <fizzie> -L for local, -R for remote.
18:23:56 <quintopia> okay but first i have to calculate how long it would take a sun mass black hole to evaporate :P
18:24:01 <fizzie> Works exact the same way than -L.
18:24:17 <fizzie> (Except the port that gets forwarded is on the remote side.)
18:28:28 <quintopia> Vorpal: actually i didn't need to calculate
18:28:45 <quintopia> Vorpal: the wikipedia article on hawking radiation give the evaporation time for a sun-size black hole as 2.098 × 1067 years
18:29:53 <quintopia> aka more than the current age of the universe
18:29:53 <Phantom_Hoover> <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, wouldn't a black hole with the mass of the sun evaporate rather quickly from Hawking radiation (if that hypothesis is correct)
18:29:59 <Vorpal> quintopia, quite a bit then
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18:30:40 <quintopia> Vorpal: the evaporation time is directly proportional to the cube of the mass
18:30:43 <Phantom_Hoover> A black hole the mass of a mountain would take about the current age of the universe to decay fully.
18:30:51 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh, I guess because most of the star's material is thrown away in the super nova that creates the black hole?
18:31:20 <Phantom_Hoover> quintopia, ooh did I tell you about Hawking generators they are the BEST THING
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18:31:37 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, how can the gravity on the bit that is left lead to a black hole then? (Rather than a white dwarf)
18:32:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Basic principle is, you have a black hole with a mass such that it radiates energy at an appropriate rate for you to use.
18:32:36 <quintopia> Vorpal: to do the calculations yourself, multiply 1.33820726 × 10^-17 by the cube of the mass in kg. that gives evaporation time in seconds (in a vacuum, low-gravity reference frame iiuc)
18:32:49 <Phantom_Hoover> You then funnel mass back into it to offset the decay, and you have a perfectly efficient mass-to-energy converter.
18:33:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, the thing that makes black holes isn't gravity, it's density.
18:34:18 <Phantom_Hoover> The core is crushed incredibly by the mass of the star, which eventually gets to the point where none of the physical forces maintaining a minimum separation of matter (there are a few at play) can resist it.
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18:36:35 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: sounds cool. I've heard similar ideas before. convert our trash to energy. however, i'd rather see aneutronic fusion made to work than set off in search of an appropriately-sized black hole, since it produces helium, which we don't have enough of anyway.
18:38:45 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: do you know of a theoretically perfectly efficient energy-to-mass converter?
18:40:31 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: also, do you know enough about the SM to understand why a higgs would provide mass?
18:41:01 <zzo38> edwardk: Why haven't you removed the bad MonadTrans and MonadPlus instances for Free?
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19:07:00 <oerjan> <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiiiiisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiio
19:07:20 <oerjan> iiiiiiiii = iiis for a start...
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19:12:47 <augur> im learning some bash :x
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19:15:31 <oerjan> "If the mass of the remnant exceeds about 3–4 solar masses (the Tolman–Oppenheimer–Volkoff limit[14])—either because the original star was very heavy or because the remnant collected additional mass through accretion of matter—even the degeneracy pressure of neutrons is insufficient to stop the collapse."
19:15:58 <oerjan> i don't think 1 solar mass black holes are implied to be normal there
19:16:29 <oerjan> i recall 1.4 solar masses is the limit before you get a neutron star
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19:17:00 <Phantom_Hoover> <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: do you know of a theoretically perfectly efficient energy-to-mass converter?
19:17:00 <Phantom_Hoover> <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: also, do you know enough about the SM to understand why a higgs would provide mass?
19:17:29 <Phantom_Hoover> I just read A Brief History of Time and the WP article on Hawking radiation, and there aren't any theoretical problems.
19:20:09 <oerjan> "Stellar mass or larger black holes receive more mass from the cosmic microwave background than they emit through Hawking radiation and thus will grow instead of shrink. To have a Hawking temperature larger than 2.7 K (and be able to evaporate), a black hole needs to have less mass than the Moon."
19:22:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Basically you get the lightsaber sword that one-shots almost all humanoid enemies, then health regen and speed upgrades, then you run up to everyone and show them your stabs while they're still asking you if you're their seargant.
19:23:21 <oerjan> yes sirgiant isn't spellt that way
19:23:35 <Taneb> You spelt sergeant wrong twice
19:24:19 <Phantom_Hoover> But you can get the correct spelling by mixing and matching and isn't that the real truth?
19:24:22 * oerjan swats Taneb for boring spelling -----###
19:24:28 <Taneb> (it can also be spelt "serjeant" in some regiments, such as the West Yorkshire Riding regiment)
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19:25:48 <Taneb> stlangbot: df iiisso
19:25:58 <oerjan> stlangbot: df isisisiso
19:26:36 <mroman> stlangbot outputs ascii, not numbers.
19:26:53 <oerjan> mroman: oh. not compliant deadfish
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19:27:12 <oerjan> even my itflabtijtslwi interpreter does bigger numbers than that :P
19:27:31 <Phantom_Hoover> augur, also don't get microfibrial muscle because bots are hell without the melee aug.
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19:27:40 <mroman> stlangbot: df isisisiso
19:27:47 <mroman> stlangbot: df isisisisosososo
19:27:47 <stlangbot> [mroman] [676, 456976, 208827064576L, 43608742899428874059776L]
19:27:50 <mroman> stlangbot: df isisisisososososo
19:27:50 <stlangbot> [mroman] [676, 456976, 208827064576L, 43608742899428874059776L, 1901722457268488241418827816020396748021170176L]
19:27:51 <mroman> stlangbot: df isisisisosososososo
19:27:52 <stlangbot> [mroman] [676, 456976, 208827064576L, 43608742899428874059776L, 1901722457268488241418827816020396748021170176L, 3616548304479297085365330736464680499909051895704748593486634912486670341490423472351870976L]
19:27:53 <mroman> stlangbot: df isisisisososososososo
19:27:53 <stlangbot> [mroman] [676, 456976, 208827064576L, 43608742899428874059776L, 1901722457268488241418827816020396748021170176L, 3616548304479297085365330736464680499909051895704748593486634912486670341490423472351870976L, 13079421638632078538609985886760523574926223260449315332780141613109448755835972767166862958721190041422043896326261700101811115130162354414853265170521645989511987615710527751192576L]
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19:28:02 <augur> oh, sorry, i didnt see your above comments
19:28:03 <mroman> gotta excess flood prevent that :)
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19:28:25 <mroman> stlangbot: df isisisisososososososo
19:28:25 <stlangbot> [mroman] [676, 456976, 208827064576L, 43608742899428874059776L, 190172245726848824141882781602039674802117017
19:28:33 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: who are you on reddit
19:28:45 <mroman> stlangbot: df isisisiso
19:28:46 <Phantom_Hoover> oh what is this shit you can't get the canister for that slot ever again after liberty island
19:28:47 <fizzie> How is your brain on reddit.
19:28:54 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis
19:29:51 <stlangbot> [oerjan] iiiiiiiiiisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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19:35:03 <oerjan> i, ii, iii, iis, iisi, iisii, iisiii, iiisd, iiis, iiisi, iiisii, iiisiii, iissddd, iissdd, iissd, iiss ...
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19:36:56 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiisisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
19:37:07 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiisisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
19:38:18 <quintopia> Taneb: sargeant is the correct way to spell dick sargeant's name isn't it?
19:38:37 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: looking now
19:38:51 <Taneb> Sargent, Google says
19:40:08 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: oh, yes, ok. i didnt notice your username before.
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19:47:36 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiisisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
19:47:45 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiissiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
19:47:56 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiissiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
19:48:03 <mroman> yeah. not very smart :(
19:48:08 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisi
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19:51:18 <stlangbot> [mroman] iiiiiiiiiiiiiisiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
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19:52:18 <mroman> 8 is too low to calculate.
19:58:16 <kallisti> private git repo is up. feel free if you want to use my server as a host for it.
19:58:58 <kallisti> er, I think there's something missing from that sentence.
19:59:02 <kallisti> I'll let you feel in the blanks.
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20:00:57 <mroman> stlangbot: df iiisiisiio
20:01:06 <mroman> now he's pretty damn clever.
20:02:42 -!- edwardk has joined.
20:03:05 <mroman> stlangbot: df iissdddo
20:03:46 <oerjan> mroman: still not perfect
20:04:02 <mroman> can 71 be achieved shorter?
20:04:34 <oerjan> stlangbot: df iiisdsiiiiiii
20:04:38 <oerjan> stlangbot: df iiisdsiiiiiiio
20:05:43 <oerjan> stlangbot: df iiisdsiiiiii
20:05:46 <oerjan> stlangbot: df iiisdsiiiiiio
20:05:47 <mroman> he's pretty clever for not using bruteforce.
20:06:54 <oerjan> mroman: it doesn't use the best form for 8 when producing 70
20:06:55 <quintopia> undf is the deadfish version of bf_txtgen?
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20:10:45 <oerjan> > let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where n1 = undf (floor (sqrt n)); n2 = undf (ceiling (sqrt n)) in map undf [0..]
20:10:46 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int)
20:10:58 <oerjan> > let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where n1 = undf (floor (sqrt n)); n2 = undf (ceiling (sqrt (fromIntegral n))) in map undf [0..]
20:10:59 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int)
20:12:05 <oerjan> > let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where sqrtn = sqrt (fromIntegral n); n1 = undf (floor sqrtn); n2 = undf (ceiling sqrtn) in map undf [0..]
20:12:07 <lambdabot> ["","i","ii","iii","ii","ii","ii","ii","ii","iii","ii","ii","ii","ii","ii",...
20:12:23 -!- stlangbot has joined.
20:12:58 <oerjan> mroman: iiii can be shortened to iis
20:14:27 <mroman> that's probably very well detectable.
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20:14:33 <oerjan> this needs a recursion to work properly
20:17:14 <oerjan> > let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where sqrtn = floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n; n1 = undf sqrtn ++ 's' : replicate (n-sqrtn^2) 'i'; n2 = undf (sqrtn+1) ++ 's' : replicate ((sqrtn+1)^2-n) 'd' in map undf [0..]
20:17:16 <lambdabot> ["","i","ii","iii","iis","iisi","iisii","iisiii","iiisd","iiis","iiisi","ii...
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20:18:10 <oerjan> > let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where sqrtn = floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n; n1 = undf sqrtn ++ 's' : replicate (n-sqrtn^2) 'i'; n2 = undf (sqrtn+1) ++ 's' : replicate ((sqrtn+1)^2-n) 'd' in map undf [0..] !! 70
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20:19:01 <Taneb> It's probably possible to call Haskell code from Python (via C)
20:19:24 <mroman> oerjan: Is that a formula which always produces the shortest solution?
20:19:30 <zzo38> Taneb: Probably if you use foreign exports, it is.
20:20:09 <oerjan> it just compares for length adding i's to the lower square bound and d's to the upper one
20:20:19 <Taneb> stlangbot: df iiisso
20:20:41 <mroman> Taneb: Go beat up oerjan!
20:20:46 <oerjan> mroman: your 70 seems to use a too long version of 3 to start
20:21:11 <mroman> stlangbot: df iisdsdsiiiiiio
20:21:26 <Taneb> stlangbot: df iiisdsiiiiiio
20:21:57 <Taneb> Why does the BBC love Brian Cox?
20:22:18 <olsner> Taneb: he's their most photogenic physicist?
20:22:20 <oerjan> > let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where sqrtn = floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n; n1 = undf sqrtn ++ 's' : replicate (n-sqrtn^2) 'i'; n2 = undf (sqrtn+1) ++ 's' : replicate ((sqrtn+1)^2-n) 'd' in map undf [0..] !! 249
20:22:33 <olsner> very unlike wriggly bearded old men like higgs
20:22:48 <oerjan> wait why am i mapping then indexing :P
20:22:54 <oerjan> > let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where sqrtn = floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n; n1 = undf sqrtn ++ 's' : replicate (n-sqrtn^2) 'i'; n2 = undf (sqrtn+1) ++ 's' : replicate ((sqrtn+1)^2-n) 'd' in map undf 249
20:22:55 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Int])
20:23:01 <oerjan> > let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where sqrtn = floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n; n1 = undf sqrtn ++ 's' : replicate (n-sqrtn^2) 'i'; n2 = undf (sqrtn+1) ++ 's' : replicate ((sqrtn+1)^2-n) 'd' in undf 249
20:23:11 <oerjan> @let undf n | n < 4 = replicate n 'i' | length n1 <= length n2 = n1 | otherwise = n2 where sqrtn = floor . sqrt $ fromIntegral n; n1 = undf sqrtn ++ 's' : replicate (n-sqrtn^2) 'i'; n2 = undf (sqrtn+1) ++ 's' : replicate ((sqrtn+1)^2-n) 'd'
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20:24:53 <mroman> why the hell es he doing that.
20:25:26 <Taneb> Wait, does fungot have deadfish?
20:25:27 <fungot> Taneb: http://forum.java.sun.com/ fnord/ fnord here's what i was about to say tomorrow fnord
20:25:41 <Taneb> It has Java, and doesn't have deadfish!
20:25:52 <olsner> it even has fnort fnord tomorrow fnord
20:26:16 <oerjan> stlangbot: df iiisisiiiio
20:26:49 <olsner> fungot: create some fun please
20:26:50 <fungot> olsner: decided to ditch class?), reminded me of something...
20:27:11 <olsner> I hate it when fungot adds unmatched parens
20:27:12 <fungot> olsner: just interested. shiro seems to be case-by-case and specific to the usage of?
20:28:09 <olsner> is that a disembodied moustache?
20:28:32 <oerjan> the ghost of moustaches past
20:29:32 <olsner> probably spelled wrong
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20:30:50 <olsner> hard to spell, but at least it's not 'manoeuvre'
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20:31:23 <HackEgo> 460) <NihilistDandy> Non sequitur is my forte <NihilistDandy> On-topic discussion is my piano <Taneb> Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte <Taneb> Full fat milk is my pianissimo <Taneb> On which note, I'm hungry
20:31:43 <Taneb> Whatever happened to NihilistDandy?
20:31:58 <HackEgo> 410) <NihilistDandy> elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/ \ 440) <NihilistDandy> MY CONTINUITY <NihilistDandy> MY FANFICTION <NihilistDandy> RUINED \ 450) <NihilistDandy> The Russian's emblem was the hammer and sickle, not the fist and other fist \ 460) <NihilistDandy> Non sequitur is my forte <NihilistDandy> On-topic discussion is my piano <Taneb> Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my
20:32:46 <HackEgo> 145) <nooga> i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages <olsner> even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok \ 184) <olsner> DAMN YOU, I'm leaving <Vorpal> olsner, FINALLY NOTHING BETWEEN ME AND WORLD DOMINATION! \ 198) <tswett> elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. <olsner> wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here? <nooga> what
20:32:57 <HackEgo> 348) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 349) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> 352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner>
20:33:19 <HackEgo> 409) <oerjan> as i was filled with zzo38 mystery at the moment i saw <zzo38> quintopia: I am at Canada.
20:33:50 <Taneb> `addquote <mroman> You can't quote me.
20:33:53 <HackEgo> 848) <mroman> You can't quote me.
20:34:01 <HackEgo> 610) <Ngevd> Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love \ 616) [in the context of Open University] <Ngevd> "Unlike other operating systems, Linux operating systems use Linux" \ 619) <fungot> Ngevd:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov \ 621) <Phantom__Hoover> Also you steal Berwick from us and then
20:34:45 <HackEgo> 431) <Taneb> Turned out he got recursion, he just didn't get the return statement \ 437) <Taneb> Cut to February <Taneb> War were declared <Taneb> A galaxy in turmoil <Taneb> Anyway, Febuary '10 \ 438) <Taneb> I can't afford one of those! <Taneb> A grandchild, not a laser printer \ 444) <fizzie> There's that saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different
20:34:51 <Taneb> I'm ridiculously quotable
20:35:07 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13150
20:38:46 <HackEgo> 103) <fax> okay I see it now, quines do exist
20:39:09 <mroman> I deny the existence of quines!
20:39:40 <quintopia> we will not tolerate an aquinist in #esoteric!
20:39:51 <Taneb> If this sentence causes someone to read it outline, it is a quine.
20:40:19 <HackEgo> 785) <Ngevd> I don't know which version of Linux kernel I'm using atm <Ngevd> Hang on <Ngevd> I'm on Windows
20:40:30 <Taneb> That's my favourite me-quote atm
20:41:08 <quintopia> i suggest consulting St. Thomas Aquinist
20:41:28 * oerjan swats quintopia for stealing his pun -----###
20:44:26 <oerjan> you cannot thunk me, i'm already maximally lazy
20:45:12 <quintopia> i did not request that reply from you
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20:47:52 <quintopia> oerjan: is it possible to make a redirect on the wiki so that an article/title redirects to another site?
20:48:21 <oerjan> i dunno but i doubt it
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20:52:01 <Taneb> oerjan `seq` oerjab
20:52:05 <quintopia> oh well, this still works: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hash_consing
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20:54:38 <olsner> like oerjan with a cold
20:56:14 <zzo38> I try to make up the CofreeT
20:58:43 <zzo38> Is that right? duplicate (CofreeT x y) = CofreeT (x =>> flip CofreeT y) (duplicate <$> y); lower (CofreeT x _) = x;
20:59:38 <oerjan> yeah i ad always switching cobsobabts weirdly wheb i have a cold
21:00:27 <oerjan> sodehow "ng" doesb't get this treatdebt
21:10:38 <kallisti> is it possible to tell find to exec different commands on different files based on different conditions?
21:13:31 <kallisti> -option1 blah -exec blah -or -option2 blah -exec blah
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21:32:12 <lambdabot> kmc says: SSE9. Where the registers are 1 megabyte long and there's an instruction for PACKED SATURATED DOUBLE-PRECISION PARSE XML AND CONSTRUCT FACEBOOK API QUERY. I believe the mnemonic is
21:33:14 <zzo38> Do you mean the instruction does all three things?
21:34:46 <olsner> yes, and since it's "packed", it does it on all parts of a register at once
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21:37:04 <olsner> if double-precision means 64-bit, I guess it parses 131072 XML documents and makes one api query for each one
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22:01:00 <edwardk> zzo38: mostly because they are useful
22:01:16 <edwardk> zzo38: even if they only hold up to a quotient
22:01:51 <zzo38> But do you know how to make up the FreeT and CofreeT?
22:04:19 * oerjan guesses data FreeT f m x = Lift (m x) | FreeT (f (FreeT f m x))
22:04:54 <oerjan> then lift = Lift, was the idea
22:05:03 <oerjan> and return = lift . return
22:05:26 <oerjan> so i guess there is a problem with >>= ?
22:06:07 <oerjan> perhaps then data FreeT f m x = Lift (m x) | FreeT (m (f (FreeT f m x)))
22:06:59 <zzo38> The way I did was by newtype FreeT f m x = FreeT (m (Either x (f (FreeT f m x))));
22:07:34 <oerjan> hm i think that's _almost_ equivalent to my last one
22:07:50 <zzo38> lift = FreeT . fmap Left; join (FreeT x) = FreeT (x >>= either runFreeT (return . Right . fmap join));
22:10:06 <oerjan> (too complicated for me, i think)
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22:12:10 <zzo38> I gave some definitions of CofreeT above but do you know if it is correct? Maybe edwardk knows?
22:12:38 <oerjan> i have no intuition about comonads
22:14:10 <zzo38> I did not quite understand it at first either but if you understand and then think about then can be understood better. Simply, dual to return and join is extract and duplicate. And then everything that applies to functions of those type for the comonad on (->) category.
22:16:17 <zzo38> I think I managed to make up a MonadPlus for any comonad.
22:17:54 <kallisti> Gregor: what are you using to make IRC logs?
22:18:20 <zzo38> (Actually it is still a monad regardless of w, but it is MonadPlus if w is a comonad, I think.)
22:20:32 <kallisti> ah nevermind irssi can produce raw logs.
22:20:57 <kallisti> hm, but it's not as sophisticated as the regular /log command
22:21:11 <zzo38> If w is the identity comonad then you will get the Maybe monad from that.
22:23:28 <Gregor> kallisti: glogbot is entirely my own code, and not an interactive client, so *eh*
22:23:55 <kallisti> I think I can script up irssi to do fancy raw logs.
22:24:00 <kallisti> per channel and rotated and such
22:29:05 <edwardk> zzo38: yes i know FreeT and CofreeT, I'll probably add them to free at some point
22:29:25 <zzo38> edwardk: Is the what I have is correct?
22:29:34 <edwardk> but they aren't useful for the same scenarios where you take a perfectly good monad and wrap it in Free
22:29:50 <zzo38> I know they are useful for different things instead
22:31:40 <zzo38> And how well does the CofreeT?
22:31:59 <edwardk> i don't see the type above
22:32:18 <zzo38> I did not post the type above, but here it is: data CofreeT f w x = CofreeT (w x) (f (CofreeT f w x));
22:32:51 <zzo38> I know, I wasn't quite sure myself
22:32:59 <edwardk> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/comonad-transformers/0.1.1/doc/html/Control-Comonad-Trans-Stream.html
22:33:13 <edwardk> was what i used when i first packaged comonad-transformers
22:33:28 <zzo38> That is why I ask.
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22:34:29 <edwardk> i got rid of it because it is a pain in the ass to work with and the instances are awful
22:34:45 <edwardk> but i have enough people clamoring for it i'll probably add it back in
22:39:36 <zzo38> I think this can make a MonadPlus whenever w is a comonad: newtype CodensityAsk w x = CodensityAsk { runCodensityAsk :: forall z. w z -> (x -> z) -> z }; (and that it seems to always make a monad)
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22:40:33 <zzo38> Is there a way to make a Comonad from any Plus?
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23:29:25 <kallisti> Gregor: so do you just run different glogbot instances for each channel?
23:29:40 <kallisti> otherwise you would have to keep track of who's in a channel to determine when a QUIT applies to a channels log.
23:30:16 <zzo38> It didn't used to work but I told him to fix it
23:32:33 <oerjan> it does keep track. and any channel operator can invite glogbot to their channel last i heard
23:37:18 <zzo38> Yes, I think you control the logging simply by INVITE and KICK commands. (You can also send commands directly to glogbot if you want status and so on.)
23:37:53 <Gregor> kallisti: I only run one glogbot instance, and it keeps track of who's who where by log.
23:38:16 <kallisti> I think I can just let irssi do that for me, then.
23:38:22 <Gregor> And yes, after being broken for various reasons, the channel list is currently fully working to my knowledge X-D
23:38:41 <zzo38> It would then need to also keep track of NICK in case you changed your name on many channels
23:48:51 <Gregor> kallisti: See !glogbot_help