< 1341964849 427307 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1341965333 204446 :kwertii2!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1341965467 623422 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1341965467 835820 :kwertii2!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii NICK :kwertii < 1341965694 570832 :kwertii2!~kwertii@50-0-158-230.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341965694 830381 :kwertii2!~kwertii@50-0-158-230.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net QUIT :Changing host < 1341965695 29283 :kwertii2!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1341965748 567657 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1341965748 902780 :kwertii2!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii NICK :kwertii < 1341966102 459450 :kwertii2!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1341966182 580397 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1341966183 102747 :kwertii2!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii NICK :kwertii < 1341966892 451287 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341968908 202576 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341968925 573870 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1341969348 73394 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: nuq < 1341970015 774675 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341970028 653050 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-156-146.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1341970140 244960 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kwertii, you probably want to fix your client and/or connection. < 1341970197 397487 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1341970287 642555 :kwertii!~kwertii@50-0-94-102.dsl.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341970288 2574 :kwertii!~kwertii@50-0-94-102.dsl.static.sonic.net QUIT :Changing host < 1341970288 201061 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1341970442 352895 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reässuring" with a diaeresis mark, yes/yes? < 1341970684 488427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :reälly < 1341970763 23790 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :How the heck do you pronounce "really" X-D < 1341970858 976772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes < 1341970881 135869 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Would you spell "subordinate" with one? < 1341971368 481481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: straïght forward, of coürse < 1341971401 319592 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There's no diaeresis in subordinate... heck, there aren't even two vowels in a row, so there's not even the possibility of a diaeresis. < 1341971421 686543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think of a diaeresis on a vowel as meaning something like a glottal stop. < 1341971433 188753 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... well, then you think of it wrong... < 1341971483 169341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, it's not quite a glottal stop. < 1341971488 702741 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's something pretty close... < 1341971495 201354 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which you mean "not even slightly". < 1341971502 369632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :use diäereses however yoü want, yoü have poetic license < 1341971518 565093 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh you, not using a diaeresis mark on the ONLY diaeresis in that sentence. < 1341971537 119183 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you differentiate "su-bor-din" with "sub-or-din"? < 1341971545 220611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's not what a diaeresis is. < 1341971555 601234 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed 'tisn't. < 1341971567 562251 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were a glottal stop, it'd parse as "t" in many accents. < 1341971571 563824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: actually i'm not sure aboüt the first ä < 1341971589 878556 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, that one's a bit... odd. < 1341971609 905086 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Di-aeresis? Certainly it's not diägram, is it? < 1341971614 762857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Glottal stops have nothing to do with 't's. < 1341971641 990033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some accents that pronounce 't' as glottal stop in some words, but those aren't that common, I think. < 1341971649 858214 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Virtually every accent. < 1341971662 688082 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You people must mean a different thing than I do by "glottal stop". < 1341971664 899338 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say "fatten" < 1341971677 33062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK? < 1341971684 187430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No glottal stop there. < 1341971696 434682 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm referring to IPA ʔ < 1341971697 776782 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where you're from, but if it's in the Americas, then you're lying or don't know what a glottal stop is. < 1341971707 968793 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. "glottal stop". < 1341971729 607522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is called the glottal stop because the technical term for the gap between the vocal folds, which is closed up in the production of this sound, is the glottis." < 1341971729 806003 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: actually i'm surprised to see diäeresis seems to have the second syllable stressed, i thoüght it was the third < 1341971739 785526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you're closing your glottis when you say "fatten". < 1341971768 255666 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You are if you're pronouncing it with a General American accent. < 1341971851 543210 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm thinking of the Hebrew letter "aleph". < 1341971870 824792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly "fatten" has two articulation points for the tt? < 1341971873 31997 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You also pronounce 't' glottally with many words in UK English, though which ones get done that way are different. < 1341971900 43151 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Hangul "ㅇ". < 1341971904 420361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think?) < 1341971934 62819 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: "In Modern Israeli Hebrew, the letter either represents a glottal stop ([ʔ]) or indicates a hiatus (the separation of two adjacent vowels into distinct syllables with no intervening consonant)." < 1341971947 63023 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, apparently Hebrew aleph is glottal stop and diaresis. < 1341971950 935312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Right, that's just people slurring it together. < 1341971961 380131 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you asked them to be all formal about it they'd probably pronounce the glottal stop. < 1341971971 196485 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two are different phenomena in English. < 1341971983 118688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1341972102 305859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_consonant < 1341972321 534379 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's more that US English has gained a tendency to turn 't' into a glottal stop when certain vowels are between it and 'n'. < 1341972542 9250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, i just wondered if there were intermediate cases < 1341972569 71078 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made five .NSF musics, although all of them are covers so far. < 1341972590 596168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(One of them is cover of some music that originally had no harmony, so I added some.) < 1341973117 846686 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use of channels (and order of writing): prelude.mml=AB winter.mml=ABC cv_bsnes.mml=ABCD wizardry.mml=ABDMN cvheven.mml=DGHIJKL < 1341973314 615411 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341973629 999292 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't a glottal stop just like... < 1341973633 64115 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rough pause. < 1341973643 482282 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you close off your vocal tract. < 1341973686 740550 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yeah, we do that with our t's < 1341973689 251478 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we're lazy. < 1341973701 485246 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or make a "d" sound. < 1341974129 198653 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341975224 575620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1341975709 995677 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you written music recently? What software did you use? < 1341975760 575503 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: That is a glottal stop, yes. < 1341975771 283472 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: It's where you stop and close the glottis. < 1341975960 505688 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Are you the guy who told me before if you have made the .NSF musics? < 1341976022 392600 :canaima_!~DaNi@186.93.71.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341976245 603283 :canaima_!~DaNi@186.93.71.119 QUIT :Client Quit < 1341976448 305826 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1341976516 863939 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like all of them (they are the ones I like best) except for the one with smoke weed < 1341976537 73574 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written five .NSF musics so far although these five all of them covers, so far. < 1341976580 707866 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One was from a ZZT game, and I have added the harmony instead of having the melody only < 1341976612 726572 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I have made the Caverns of Zeux heaven music using DGHIJKL channels < 1341976638 67261 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(D=2A03 noise channel, GHIJKL=VRC7 channel) < 1341976798 534441 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use mml? < 1341976804 864432 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is first time I have used VRC7 channel. < 1341976807 64192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes. < 1341976864 171474 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you not use MML? Well, some people like it and others hate it, use whatever you prefer < 1341976876 930484 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use impulse tracker + converters :D < 1341976889 852891 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most other tracker dudes have moved to famitracker though < 1341976913 672953 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I suppose IT+convert can work too if you want. < 1341976920 228612 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother uses FamiTracker. < 1341976950 912059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in the process of writing a program called ITMCK. < 1341977114 203450 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do? :D < 1341977177 956932 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a program to make a .IT file. < 1341977194 409357 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://repo.or.cz/w/ITMCK.git < 1341977206 196110 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from mck? < 1341977241 530334 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has been contemplating the design of a graphical DSP system for Haskell
< 1341977263 937786 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar in concept to things like MAX/MSP and pure-data < 1341977264 947887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: It is the program to compile MML to .IT < 1341977294 793974 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1341977339 863066 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I have been thinking of use of Penrose tensor diagrams to represent morphisms in tensor categories satisfying certain additional laws (certain things can be done in the diagram depending on what features the category has, too) < 1341977421 189489 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Well, Impulse Tracker is DOS only and I don't like programs like Modplug Tracker and so on to write music either, so I want to write the new one which is better. For now looking at source-codes and documentation you might try to understand a few things. Do you like the formatting of the documentation so far? < 1341977485 758341 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ther's still schism tracker and chibi tracker < 1341977502 380055 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes I know about those ones too; I prefer MML < 1341977545 628860 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-151-127.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341977558 472601 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-141-172.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1341977563 982959 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does this have anything to do with DSP? < 1341977587 153016 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Maybe. < 1341977617 712918 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be a weird question < 1341977618 104039 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1341977625 946846 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have a identity from the UK I can borrow? < 1341977644 556439 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :OVH is giving out free servers with shit specs for people in the UK. < 1341977693 51049 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITMCK even support customize scale (which is something OpenMPT supports but only for its own format), and customize temperament (also something OpenMPT supports for its own format; ITMCK emulate it by making multiple sample headings with varying C5speed) < 1341977695 631726 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh looks like they're free ones in the US too < 1341977706 524760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: I have used PureData. < 1341977730 333209 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I found it a neat concept. but anything marginally complex becomes slow and a mass of lines and boxes. < 1341977737 932623 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it would be nice to use Haskell instead of "subpatches" < 1341977744 205373 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also have subpatches as well < 1341977755 554258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1341977760 785778 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that is what you like. < 1341977859 478698 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you can have tensor diagrams for Haskell's (->) category including lines crossing < 1341977899 379027 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one law that must be required to make the tensor diagrams for a category would be that (***) and (.) abide (a term I read in some of Edward Kmett's messages) < 1341977924 818760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that isn't enough to allow the lines to cross < 1341978158 869967 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how sequencers like Reaper organize stuff in tracks < 1341978178 172990 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you mean? < 1341978178 371831 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can still do any graph but they're a lot easier to edit < 1341978193 319171 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reaper works something like this: < 1341978196 385157 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you add tracks < 1341978202 911484 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :each track has a stack of effects < 1341978207 910414 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :applied serially < 1341978256 63666 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also do signal sends from one track's output to another track's input < 1341978271 182086 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can also add folder tracks that contain other tracks < 1341978290 502966 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you put effects on the folder track, they are applied after mixing all the tracks in the folder < 1341978312 887747 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus you can add as many channels as you want to any track < 1341978331 831364 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and configure your effects to use this or that channel for processing < 1341978344 531461 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :between all of that you can do everything < 1341978368 873129 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1341978515 413116 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :common cases (layering a bunch of synth VSTs then putting on a ton of effects) are easy to do :D < 1341978777 471804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti: Maybe you could represent them as a tensor category with two prime objects < 1341979176 707898 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tensor? prime objects?? :o < 1341979374 841887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know about category theory? < 1341979390 873675 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think "prime objects" is the standard term but I don't know if there is any so I use this) < 1341979542 559953 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1341979597 290346 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more of a c++ guy tbh, haven't gotten into the haskell cult yet :D < 1341979666 74810 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-151-127.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, grow some taste. :P < 1341979714 938034 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :language I've probably done the second most of is ARM assembly :D < 1341979850 523873 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pretty nice architecture < 1341980361 14506 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to program in Haskell to know category theory, or vice versa. < 1341980611 53986 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 NICK :madbr-SVO < 1341982513 929697 :trout!~root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :const < 1341982841 247388 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1341983597 534622 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1341984038 451451 :madbr-SVO!boulam@24.157.253.190 NICK :madbr < 1341984086 453042 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm toying with the idea of a processor with some kind of "trace" mode for fast parallelized execution of high computation loops < 1341985258 556304 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1341985303 162808 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341986420 293717 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you expect it to work? < 1341986462 358252 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a loop that can be optimized < 1341986464 746780 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ex: < 1341986495 72060 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for(int i=0; i>16] + (((sample[(mPos>>16)+1] - sample[mPos>>16])*(mPos&0xffff))>>16))*mVol) >> 16; < 1341986507 675868 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's linear interpolated sample mixing) < 1341986650 494569 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the first pass of compilation, it looks something like this: < 1341986664 368588 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i = 0 < 1341986664 567322 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i>=nbSamples :done < 1341986664 567420 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::loop < 1341986664 567467 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t1 = [mix + i*4] < 1341986664 567513 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t2 = mPos >> 16 < 1341986665 4116 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t3 = s16[sample + t2*2] < 1341986665 202702 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t4 = t2 + 1 < 1341986666 23073 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t5 = s16[sample + t4*2] < 1341986666 221958 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t6 = t5 - t3 < 1341986672 576036 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t7 = mPos & 0xffff < 1341986672 774358 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t8 = t6 * t7 < 1341986672 774470 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t9 = t8 >> 16 < 1341986672 774513 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t10 = t3 + t9 < 1341986672 774556 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t11 = t10 * mVol < 1341986673 4108 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t12 = t11 >> 16 < 1341986673 202722 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t13 = t1 + t12 < 1341986674 4815 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[mix + i*4] = t13 < 1341986674 203667 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t14 = mVol + mRamp < 1341986675 16128 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$mVol = t14 < 1341986684 289470 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t15 = mPos + mFreq < 1341986684 488240 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$mPos = t15 < 1341986684 488429 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t16 = i + 1 < 1341986684 488542 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$i = t16 < 1341986684 488649 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if $i>=nbSamples :loop < 1341986685 4009 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::done < 1341986727 202446 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using the model where every calculation or variable write is to a new variable) < 1341986780 972659 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM does something like that, I think. And I can understand how you can parallelize it when the order is not relevant. < 1341986856 452050 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, essentially you have to figure out when each loop iteration is independent < 1341986873 135792 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that happens you are in business < 1341986902 203458 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can compile it more or less directly to a series of RISC operations < 1341986936 813694 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that instead of having one execution unit and asign it a different operation on every cycle < 1341986974 768934 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a bunch of execution units and assign each operation to a new different unit < 1341987008 508253 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so first operation t1 = [mix + i*4] gets assigned to first unit < 1341987021 708885 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t2 = mPos >> 16 gets assigned to second unit < 1341987024 21130 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1341987065 402370 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep the same unit executing the same op over and over for each successive cycle < 1341987330 978823 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I can understand that. < 1341987420 754825 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can autounroll the increments you can do 2 or 4 loops per cycle < 1341987424 658061 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the goal < 1341987941 952422 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1341988056 355456 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds like you've basically reinvented VLIW < 1341988084 817720 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1341988104 510286 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except VLIW is a bunch of exploding designs that never took off :D < 1341988128 823492 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you think yours will be any different? < 1341988145 678721 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1341988167 842236 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1341988200 4877 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find a way to avoid the "intel failed design" effect :D < 1341988216 210835 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the itanic disaster? ;) < 1341988294 992839 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i860 < 1341988303 923711 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-95.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341988304 122344 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-151-127.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1341988357 654067 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960 (actually a moderate success I guess) < 1341988391 370894 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes Itanic :D < 1341988498 425521 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though Itanic didn't really have all that many execution units < 1341988501 688775 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 ALUs? < 1341988807 808658 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's really needed, because compile-time scheduling is impossible in principle to get right, is a way for the compiled binary to have, not lists, but DAGs of instructions < 1341988830 683918 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the compiler can tell the scheduler /precisely/ what its ordering constraints are < 1341988870 416843 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the chip can use as much parallelism as the DAG will allow (if it has enough units). But it would require a more complex scheduler < 1341988890 442971 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :though less complex than the ones on modern CISC chips that try to work out for themselves what the constraints are :S < 1341988976 405183 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAG? < 1341988982 672692 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :directed acyclic graph < 1341988991 973200 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1341989019 568130 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a layer based approach < 1341989037 300226 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have the compiler figure out all the first layer instructions in a loop < 1341989051 931953 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the ones that can be computed on first cycle) < 1341989058 683240 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do layer 2, 3 etc < 1341989067 929545 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that doesn't deal with variable latency < 1341989098 545424 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the compiler /can't/ figure out the scheduling, precisely because of variable latency < 1341989163 342656 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :two cases here would be multiply, and memory loads < 1341989163 542207 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to effectively communicate a set of ordering constraints; the minimal such is the DAG, the maximal such is a list of single instructions to be executed serially (the 'classic' architecture, from the olden days) < 1341989193 956002 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply is constant but still relatively long and changes from cpu generation to cpu generation < 1341989210 250791 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can go up - see early pentium II) < 1341989252 363480 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory load is effectively unpredictable < 1341989258 268355 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1341989485 650626 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I do math heavy code and I'm slightly disappointed at the throughputs in very recent cpus :D < 1341989551 719374 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-149-9.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341989556 610791 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-22-154-95.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1341989788 120107 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels like the designs are geared to database software and other branch/access heavy shit < 1341989792 931005 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :web < 1341989797 659301 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of crap < 1341989834 708531 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're doing anything both math heavy and parallelisable, get some FPGAs < 1341989852 446148 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do sound < 1341989863 695958 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSPs are dead (cpus are faster) < 1341989894 837750 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody uses FPGAs, application specific hardware is mostly dead for sound < 1341989901 706329 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it shouldn't be < 1341989957 138434 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some hardware DSP cards for the pro market < 1341989962 91699 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are essentially dongles < 1341990026 831483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a DSP core in my phone, they can't be dead. < 1341990053 767168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for math-heavy and parallelisable code, doesn't everyone do that kind of stuff on GPUs nowadays? < 1341990066 399176 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for doing FFT on phone signals DSPs makes sense < 1341990069 136926 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for sound < 1341990076 625428 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs have too high latency < 1341990084 651712 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not enough flexible execution < 1341990096 120007 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no feedback, bastards) < 1341990103 234647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The phone uses the DSP for e.g. hardware-accelerated MP3 decoding. (And some video formats.) < 1341990116 178757 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense on old phones < 1341990134 911027 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for recent IPhones I'm not sure why they still use the DSP < 1341990141 26161 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably power conservation < 1341990163 291792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly old. And I think TI's to-be-released OMAP5 platform still includes a general-purpose DSP core, despite them having added all kinds of special-purpose video/media accelerator things. < 1341990170 635759 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes no sense to use the DSP in game code < 1341990225 779471 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too platform specific and you rarely have any control over it < 1341990252 903500 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course the firmware sound mixer does something wrong and you have to reimplement it all in software anyways < 1341990296 566399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, that much is of course true. (Related example: the DSP-accelerated JPG encoder used by the phone's camera app has a hardcoded JPG quality level; if you want to change it, it needs to fall back to the CPU implementation.) < 1341990331 370303 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck using the iphone's mp3 decode for game music < 1341990391 616552 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're never going to have a sample accurate loop or crossfade < 1341990440 924560 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and once a phone call plus an alarm clock happen chances are apple's media server gets confused and crashed < 1341990663 395627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a guy doing general sound recognition (environmental events; door knocking and fire alarms and phone ringing and things like that; it was for a box they sell to hotels that they can have deaf-proof houses without having to wire up a system with indicator lights to all those things) on FPGAs, he gave a talk at our place. < 1341990717 860424 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's a different market < 1341990745 312890 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And our DSP course had a couple of http://www.chameleon.synth.net/english/index.shtml 's as platforms, I've always wondered whether many people have actually bought that thing to do music. < 1341990751 537251 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess ARM systems on a chip aren't quite monstruously fast/low power enough for that yet < 1341990759 310844 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody has a chameleon :D < 1341990768 522477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No news since 2006. < 1341990788 379469 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1341990797 323267 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing happened to creamware < 1341990830 804989 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even hardware synths are losing their shine < 1341990990 598916 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d cards are doing ok but that's in part because CPUs are terrible at bilinear < 1341991012 265834 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gfx doesn't have too much pixel-to-pixel dependency < 1341991309 659033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those do get used for general-purpose calculations too a lot, though. Our cluster recently acquired 8 nodes with 2x Tesla M2090 cards, and from what I hear with something like MATLAB+GPUmat you can run your giant matrix multiplications very easily very fast on those. (That's of course all about throughput, not about latency.) < 1341991496 414443 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1341991515 835520 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound uses a lot of recursive filters, that's the catch with that one in particular < 1341991528 972580 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sample to sample latency < 1341991954 208510 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341992059 486870 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1341992556 188459 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1341992730 657362 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1341993465 834404 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think that when presented with a finite choice of processors, then it is possible to eventually determine which is the best for your type of work < 1341993654 441970 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard < 1341993838 674371 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341993870 210406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1341994398 181203 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1341994625 477185 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1341994871 155198 :itidus20!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 NICK :itidus21 < 1341995024 162119 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-161-243.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1341997412 133541 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-21-17.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1341997481 614831 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1341998507 390156 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Changing host < 1341998507 627204 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1341998695 244335 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1342001577 412809 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is true in all countries that I know except for North Korea, Iran and United Kingdom" < 1342001942 194116 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like neal stephenson.. because he is making a realistic sword fighting sim via kickstarter crowdsourcing, but i had only vaguely heard of him before < 1342001991 106381 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on wikipedia he seems really cool < 1342002636 232213 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1342002654 45589 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342002822 46241 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1342002954 356962 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same neal stephenson who wrote In The Beginning Was The Command Line, right? < 1342004160 945083 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1342004167 212353 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to wikipedia < 1342004746 164888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342005821 657703 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342005835 7320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1342005836 758835 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1342006547 41905 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1342006585 670920 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1342007306 728827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1342007947 410169 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: oonbotti < 1342008325 471921 :sunshinehappy!~sunshine@gateway/tor-sasl/sunshinehappy JOIN :#esoteric < 1342008339 420825 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1342008350 737529 :sunshinehappy!~sunshine@gateway/tor-sasl/sunshinehappy PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about an anarchist programming language: Absolutely no control structures < 1342008368 732888 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1342008557 831000 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea for a programming language < 1342008569 300347 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :related to that < 1342008631 823989 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a group of people... send them a text file containing your program < 1342008646 262627 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have them interpret it however they like, sending you back the output < 1342008665 851832 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, optionally prompting you for input < 1342008722 602650 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x oh no i have just reinvented conversation < 1342008730 647058 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1342008733 264651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds somewhat similar to IRP. < 1342008751 698115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP) < 1342008760 50018 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which < 1342008889 971420 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh IRP is better < 1342008931 446618 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1342008946 858308 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 bottles fits the description pretty close though < 1342009031 548474 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a really strange feeling to say: < 1342009072 466228 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an idea for a programming language; related to that; get a group of people... send them a text file containing your program; and have them interpret it however they like, sending you back the output; and, optionally prompting you for input; x_x oh no i have just reinvented conversation < 1342009108 700694 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get a reply like "It sounds similar to an existant esolang" < 1342009136 547275 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342009136 783706 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1342009146 164038 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342009205 164850 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342010086 483793 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1342010199 165612 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342010204 332227 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sunshinehappy: Eniuq doesn't have control structures (if by that you mean flow control) < 1342010407 525483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1342010408 398013 :yiyus!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1342010431 283077 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1342010442 165791 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342010536 424400 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-96.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1342011030 167305 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1342011122 90780 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1342011494 509322 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1801473/japanese-ascii-code < 1342011497 886254 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck...? < 1342011559 174712 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1342011645 959808 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I heard pretty much every dumb question related to programming. < 1342011660 956189 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that just tops everything I've ever seen. < 1342011781 328218 :sunshinehappy!~sunshine@gateway/tor-sasl/sunshinehappy PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1342012009 770739 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am getting a small problem with my minidistro. I have put "nameserver 8.8.8.8" in /etc/resolv.conf but it still only finds host when I use ip address instead of address < 1342012031 697172 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/of address/url/ < 1342012105 258606 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+of < 1342012138 38219 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, why, because they confused ASCII with character code? < 1342012175 254368 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>ASCII < 1342012857 490754 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, I guess dns lookup is broken? < 1342013089 372331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, try strace on nslookup google.com or something? < 1342013112 330602 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't have strace or nslookup < 1342013119 265086 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :host then? < 1342013125 695721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some command line dns resolver < 1342013151 940966 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. unless toybox or sash includes one of those < 1342013153 677884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway strace is useful for debugging, if you are trying to keep the distro as small as possible just remove strace when you are done creating the thing < 1342013212 209699 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, or just write a simple C program that tries to look up a hostname and run that under gdb < 1342013232 194275 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't have gdb. < 1342013237 959782 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you tink he has gdb? < 1342013239 741971 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+h < 1342013240 402324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, whatever debugger you have then? < 1342013249 722530 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a debugger would make it too easy! < 1342013258 302135 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :People didn't have debuggers as advanced as gdb back in teh day! < 1342013258 975515 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no debugger on that distro < 1342013285 150047 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I mostöy still use so called printf debugging < 1342013285 497822 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so add one then < 1342013327 536861 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway strace is likely better here, since you want to see what the libc does < 1342013353 652761 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. I am trying to integrate it to build system < 1342013441 638451 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, what is the intended use case for this distro? < 1342013485 278719 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :be as small as possible < 1342013494 82049 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, why? Embedded? < 1342013508 818317 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for fun < 1342013513 66858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1342013546 770570 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zack said ganbatte < 1342013559 10446 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am proud of my minimal knowlege of japanese.. < 1342013561 372247 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also building userland binaries that don't depend on dynamic libraries. < 1342013574 520398 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, statically linked < 1342013575 261212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1342013581 494407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :strace just traces system calls < 1342013585 30156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not library calls < 1342013586 620456 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1342013604 326374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, afaik strace uses ptrace to do it (just like gdb) < 1342013609 99521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that should work fine < 1342013680 867392 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing to me about acronyms like ASCII and ANSI is the use of the term america to refer to the united states < 1342013704 610332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :US is very self-centred < 1342013712 19284 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lzma doesn't want to extract strace-4.7.tar.xz < 1342013719 703318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, xz != lzma < 1342013728 225660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :xz is like lzma version 2 < 1342013733 125543 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the xzdec command < 1342013743 529307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or xz -d iirc) < 1342013755 668658 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ASCII might be representative of all of north and south america, somehow, i doubt it :D < 1342013768 476002 :stanley_!~stanley@cpc19-neat4-2-0-cust37.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1342013788 857565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, they all like to call things "national", like "national institute of whatever" < 1342013797 99735 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1342013809 466483 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the rest of the world we usually name those after the country instead < 1342013815 604067 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1342013849 866347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "SMHI" (Sveriges Meteorologiska och Hydrologiska Institut). Translates to Sweden's Meteorological and Hydrological Institute < 1342013862 481294 :soundnfury!~edward@91.85.32.82 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we in the UK do something similar; "Royal Whatever" almost always means British < 1342013866 916843 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1342013872 267320 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quite enjoy seth uh.. -strains- mcfarlane cartoons about usa < 1342013939 346189 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the sun in the sky and a smile on my face, something something salute to the american race < 1342013956 999220 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which race is that? < 1342013958 477568 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342013969 274535 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the native inidians? < 1342013990 959689 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh here it is < 1342013995 437390 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I got a feeling that it's gonna be a wonderful day! The sun in the sky has a smile on his face! And he's shinin' a salute to the American race!" < 1342013999 150054 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1342014037 604113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, presumably that refers to the native people of the US < 1342014046 917129 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea < 1342014059 307695 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very tongue in cheek show < 1342014062 625881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't include the natives of Canada and so on < 1342014281 228785 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5cS18c0GVk < 1342014296 339766 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its worth it to understand what im saying.. :D < 1342014313 125763 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sound is terrible but best version of the video i could find < 1342014335 999940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1342014364 842351 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1342014365 167501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342014383 447815 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1342014438 999318 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1342014500 715265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1342014703 579530 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dict urban bbiab < 1342014704 120054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported dictionary-lookup commands: < 1342014704 318565 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02 < 1342014704 318742 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use "dict-help [cmd...]" for more. < 1342014714 501875 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dict jargon bbiab < 1342014715 49775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported dictionary-lookup commands: < 1342014715 248158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02 < 1342014715 248336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use "dict-help [cmd...]" for more. < 1342014854 105890 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google bbiab < 1342014855 844981 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.internetslang.com/BBIAB-meaning-definition.asp < 1342014856 43630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: What does BBIAB mean? - BBIAB Definition - Meaning of BBIAB - InternetSlang.com < 1342014868 187849 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :close but no cigar < 1342014900 823734 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dict < 1342014901 518606 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported dictionary-lookup commands: < 1342014901 717697 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02 < 1342014901 717874 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use "dict-help [cmd...]" for more. < 1342014946 558045 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@dict all-dicts bbiab < 1342014947 82687 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported dictionary-lookup commands: < 1342014947 282513 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02 < 1342014947 481383 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use "dict-help [cmd...]" for more. < 1342014956 58540 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@all-dicts bbiab < 1342014957 296678 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "bbiab" vera "V.E.R.A. -- Virtual Entity of Relevant Acronyms (June 2006)" < 1342014957 495734 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBIAB < 1342014957 495943 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [I'll] Be Back In A Bit (telecommunication, Usenet, IRC) < 1342014957 496050 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1342015018 512622 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :urban dict says "the most annoying fucking abbreviation to look at. ever" < 1342015124 23866 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@all-dicts cuui < 1342015124 683862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "cuui". < 1342015278 172121 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1342015414 369893 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :rebuilding my distro after figuring out how to produce static strace < 1342015493 248423 :stanley_!~stanley@cpc19-neat4-2-0-cust37.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host < 1342015493 447239 :stanley_!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley JOIN :#esoteric < 1342015501 534790 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1342015504 894748 :stanley_!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley NICK :stanley < 1342015655 525019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, hi < 1342015657 356813 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1342015671 692794 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm leaving quite soon. < 1342015688 804791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, was static strace hard? < 1342015699 787854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, anyway surely you could just build strace and add it to the distro? < 1342015714 813414 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I had to hand patch some config files < 1342015715 846709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than rebuilding the whole thing < 1342015718 498624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, oh? < 1342015728 262892 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of config files < 1342015741 110555 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian/rules < 1342015747 964095 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for strace or for something else? < 1342015753 325165 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :for strace < 1342015755 682782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why are you using the debian build system < 1342015761 350113 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFS for the win ;P < 1342015788 155998 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it didn't add -static to CFLAGS otherwise < 1342015796 509597 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously though, the debian build system is painfully over-complicated, with a large suite of different tools used to generate or edit those files < 1342015809 637146 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, < 1342015816 311340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, I mean ./configure CFLAGS="-static" or something like that < 1342015831 160046 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sash doesn't seem to handle redirects very well < 1342015840 181536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :redirects? < 1342015867 262039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, anyway you might want to use ccache if you aren't already. Should help speeding up the compiling < 1342015892 233501 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :redirecting stdin, out and err < 1342015899 765902 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1342015905 882956 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite a bad shell then < 1342015910 171400 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use ash? < 1342015915 575203 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the busybox ash is quite good < 1342015934 177685 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. it was my main shell until yesterday < 1342015961 524338 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using sash until toysh becomes usable < 1342015961 723229 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox as main shell must be painful < 1342015970 86867 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1342015987 465431 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was very nice shell with tab completition and all < 1342015987 823933 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not the shell as such, but all the other busybox parts < 1342015994 706287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the busybox ps is quite limited for example iirc < 1342016011 203141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the normal ps on linux < 1342016016 250935 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. currently I use mix between busybox and toybox < 1342016041 123019 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, oh come on, compare busybox ps --help and the man page for the usual ps found on linux < 1342016050 370214 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ccache by the way? < 1342016061 756680 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have done it < 1342016110 408445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, ccache caches object files (you set a size limit, say 1 GB or so, for the disk cache). It can help reduce compile time when you compile the same source a lot < 1342016120 815109 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like when you are working on a large project in C or C++ < 1342016144 723992 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1342016147 274670 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, it hashes the compiler flags and all resulting source file after the preprocessor < 1342016150 233749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1342016172 547498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway, it won't break stuff due to you changing CFLAGS or so < 1342016187 383624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can confuse it by switching gcc version used though < 1342016223 1333 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, anyway it does slow down the initial compile slightly (due to the overhead of caching) but after that it helps a lot < 1342016267 368844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, I don't know how much you keep rebuilding the same source, or how long that takes up < 1342016274 856131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/up/you/ < 1342016280 198565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how did that typo happen?) < 1342016393 51098 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, btw just in case, make sure resolv.conf has a trailing newline. I'm not sure that file needs it, but I have seen crontab and what not break without trailing newlines < 1342016442 747642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bbl < 1342016457 937993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(will be back in several hours) < 1342016505 219810 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: complete distro userland rebuild (including strace) takes around 3 minutes on my 700MHz Pentium III < 1342016559 908464 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1342016684 202208 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also one reason why I am using sash is because it provides most of the functionality missing from toybox (like cp :P) < 1342016742 93490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1342016763 282465 :stanley!~stanley@cpc19-neat4-2-0-cust37.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1342016767 443916 :stanley!~stanley@cpc19-neat4-2-0-cust37.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com QUIT :Changing host < 1342016767 642444 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley JOIN :#esoteric < 1342016800 305492 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Vorpal in case you missed these two 17:21 < nortti> Vorpal: complete distro userland rebuild (including strace) takes around 3 minutes on my 700MHz Pentium III 17:24 < nortti> Vorpal: also one reason why I am using sash is because it provides most of the functionality missing from toybox (like cp :P) < 1342016800 543073 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1342017209 738485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1342017216 747713 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342017255 870944 :ais523_!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1342017510 175447 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1342017611 473462 :oklopol!oklopol@62-241-225-233.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1342018135 184479 :oklopol!oklopol@62-241-225-233.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :piuh < 1342018136 414187 :oklopol!oklopol@62-241-225-233.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ytc < 1342018469 631365 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all! < 1342018518 175018 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1342018885 164622 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342019250 933081 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342019320 804096 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1342020032 613043 :oklopol!oklopol@62-241-225-233.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hii < 1342020136 268499 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1342020514 843773 :oklopol!oklopol@62-241-225-233.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi z < 1342020939 562717 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-122-6.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342021465 479880 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342021470 173378 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1342021941 255080 :yiyus!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1342022822 69444 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-96.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1342023387 870326 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1342023463 575398 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-96.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1342023815 169678 :kallisti!~eris@h2.6.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342023815 757803 :kallisti!~eris@h2.6.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net QUIT :Changing host < 1342023815 957014 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1342024442 169592 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342024489 998188 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-173.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1342024852 540307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1342025624 445940 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1342025637 200654 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like i've found new hobby < 1342025639 167372 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.unlambda.com/download/cadr/CADR4_schematic.pdf < 1342025772 679312 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that. I'm too lazy to start up X server < 1342025819 342429 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT lisp machine schematics < 1342025844 111448 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh. you are working with one? < 1342025883 135437 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo < 1342025952 769638 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are creating emulator? < 1342026099 93500 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will bake this in a FPGA < 1342026138 440161 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the software available? < 1342026188 606314 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so, since the guy who wrote emulator posted some screenshots ;D < 1342026243 371942 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm slowly becoming British < 1342026246 366642 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeou < 1342026301 234267 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1342026307 630586 :kwertii!~kwertii@50-0-94-102.dsl.static.sonic.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342026308 65758 :kwertii!~kwertii@50-0-94-102.dsl.static.sonic.net QUIT :Changing host < 1342026308 264852 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1342026311 946616 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1342026324 283138 :Sgeou!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm addicted to Red Dwarf, A Bit of Fry and Laurie, QI, Doctor Who < 1342026372 809065 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1342026405 140849 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: why don't you run X all the time? < 1342026427 425366 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it slows down my computer too much and uses around 50% of my memory < 1342026457 992791 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they've called from the 90's, they want their machine back < 1342026472 580463 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this machine is from 2000 < 1342026477 14837 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, we've had this conversation with him, you can stop. < 1342026482 220521 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1342026501 700187 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it may help to know that he found the computer in a dumpster. < 1342026506 72733 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe try raspberry pi < 1342026522 417342 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1342026537 68724 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'd have to buy new monitor, mouse, keyboard, hard drive... < 1342026554 469570 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-122-6.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: brb < 1342026583 753987 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah. I could consisder it if they get decent RISC OS 5 port running on it < 1342026620 628862 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i watched an aussie guy on youtube that got like truckload of HP workstations from a scrapyard < 1342026643 665170 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :quide decent computers actually < 1342026648 139637 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :with SATA and stuff < 1342026653 544693 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: but yeah. I'm on trouble with 90's and 80's wanting their computers back < 1342026687 108883 :Sgeou!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a computer from 2001 until maybe 2007 < 1342026690 138231 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :build a beowulf cluster from them < 1342026695 915135 :Sgeou!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pain < 1342026697 919608 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my school is in trouble with 70's wanthing their reel to reel tape recorders back :P < 1342026716 495138 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeou: only 7 years? < 1342026796 38806 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had a computer with gaming class video card < 1342026805 554831 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm getting iBook g3 from 2001 for assembly summer 2012 < 1342026826 657827 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :decent CPUs and RAM but no graphics ;< < 1342026860 116691 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :HoMM3 & TTD < 1342026861 939492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other laptop here is a G4 iBook from 2003 or thereabouts, and it's already being a bit of a problem, since it has OS X on it, and everyone's stopped supporting PPC. < 1342026873 711253 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1342026876 401186 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which version? < 1342026880 474196 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox 3.x is the last Firefox that runs on OS X/PPC, I believe. < 1342026890 881960 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez < 1342026891 81124 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version of OS X? 10.4. < 1342026896 500868 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley JOIN :#esoteric < 1342026897 2762 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: have you heard of TenFourFox < 1342026908 928408 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I forget what the problem there was. < 1342026917 645642 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I used it when my iBook g4 worked < 1342026919 44084 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got MacBook Pro, late 2011 < 1342026956 432088 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got Mac Classic, preforma 475 and dead iBook g4 < 1342026997 883048 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I'm getting iBook g3 dual usb with OS X 10.4 < 1342027003 102870 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X is nice but can be infuriating when it comes to some deeper hacking < 1342027015 398728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had one of these: http://lowendmac.com/roadapples/x200.shtml < 1342027022 344269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then I sold it off.) < 1342027041 524028 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also you can try what I did and build almost complete netbsd system on top of darwin kernel < 1342027057 619894 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for? < 1342027077 366003 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well netbsd is better supported < 1342027083 569011 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1342027103 473586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not my laptop, so I can't. I do have one that's very similar, but I haven't used it in a while, since I have this other laptop from 2011. < 1342027110 446881 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why darwin? < 1342027116 547961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has some sort of a PPC Linux on it, though. < 1342027127 329888 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: because OS X < 1342027149 229656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the Performa I ran MkLinux, it was quite an experience too. < 1342027150 954558 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what you mean by very similar? < 1342027162 465491 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there is any point in running darwin if you don't have the rest of the OS < 1342027182 966888 :Galactica!~it@ip-168-246.sn1.7host.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1342027188 255094 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some better kernels, i think < 1342027225 16718 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Another G4 iBook that's pretty much the same model, since it was bought not more than a month or two apart, and has slightly different specs. < 1342027256 512956 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: well what I had was netbsd running on top of darwin while also having tweaked os x running at the same time < 1342027305 3695 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1342027347 640518 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a pain to get to work initialy but when I got pkgsrc my life got a much easier < 1342027373 686025 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it fixed some braindeadness of OS X < 1342027376 713707 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no time to hack < 1342027391 982623 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :;< < 1342027442 463538 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that if you don't want to hack you can install pkgsrc on OS X other ways < 1342027475 94984 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got homebrew < 1342027539 13370 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I originaly hand compiled everything < 1342027603 114839 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting mosaic-ck to work was one of the most satisfying moments < 1342027640 519360 :Galactica!~it@ip-168-246.sn1.7host.com PART :#esoteric < 1342027826 267156 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking about which is there easy way to run motif programs with framebuffer as output device < 1342027858 549229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: You are reminding me of a thing. < 1342027862 333299 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try to find the thing. < 1342027875 927240 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what thing? < 1342027880 992178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try to find it. < 1342027889 92641 :stanley!~stanley@unaffiliated/stanley QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1342027892 924617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Flash (or the lack of it) was the problem with TenFourFox. < 1342027909 451263 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could enable it on about:config < 1342027926 18624 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use flashvideoreplaces and qte and such < 1342027968 616168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.saunalambusplaza.net/peliplaza/kolumnit.php "Asensimpa taas Liinuksen", specifically this bit: "-- päätin asentaa sen autotallissa ilman valoja vanhaan Mäkintosh -koneeseen. Tuo kapistus onkin aina ollut onnettomana kohteena silloin kun kokeilunhaluni pääsee valloilleen, ja nytkin siinä oli pohjalla MacOS ja NetWare vitonen, jotka käynnistyvät yhtäaikaa." < 1342027974 134458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing. < 1342028023 79571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry about the language, for our few non-Finnish readers.) < 1342028036 896789 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can go to #esoteric-en < 1342028039 917450 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyvaa paivaa < 1342028051 449765 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :P < 1342028073 12805 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I could imagine myself in that situation < 1342028119 784193 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: eikö sulla oo ääkkösiä sun näppiksessä? < 1342028148 521900 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have lost the "Gormic the Insuranced" RPG parody article I remember the old Mikrotietokonepelit thing having, when they combined that and the "Saunalambus Plaza" thing. < 1342028161 346601 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a shame. < 1342028191 397571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had a title something like "Viimeinkin naksahti", and it's about how he finally flips out after playing pen-and-paper RPGs for such a long time, and starts murdering people for reals. < 1342028230 401956 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the one on the top of the page is bit wtf < 1342028242 787791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Yeah, it's new. Clearly the new things are a bit stupid. < 1342028248 26269 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: huh? :E < 1342028254 441119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the same thing goes for the other subpages. < 1342028285 640497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: It's supposed to be "hyvää päivää", and that sounds very different than "hyvaa paivaa". < 1342028312 424442 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it means: "don't you have å,ä and ö in your keyboard" < 1342028328 316646 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have ä when using terminal < 1342028337 128872 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a dumb terminal from the 60s? < 1342028366 611851 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's Terminal.app and maybe it's dumb < 1342028375 983784 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally i'd hold 'a' key < 1342028380 813739 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1342028401 923845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I recall correctly, Terminal.app had problems with the "bright black" color. < 1342028414 559790 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "it's just black" kind of problems. < 1342028418 321543 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did? < 1342028426 856986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may misremember. < 1342028432 564892 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never noticed that. < 1342028455 869293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://macosx.com/forums/unix-x11/21100-terminal-ansi-color-dark-grey.html agrees- < 1342028477 633045 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342028533 944965 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how i can make Terminal.app full screen < 1342028541 56225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing a binary patch kind of thing somewhere to make it work. < 1342028569 764536 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1342028581 691150 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep tabs, it looks almost like plain old text mode and i can just scroll to my desktop using 3 fingers < 1342028725 555584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used urxvt and X11.app, though it wasn't terribly pleasant experience either. < 1342028741 217394 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used xterm and X11.app < 1342028753 140560 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it < 1342028786 772332 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :try Cathode < 1342028805 388847 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it worked. But I vaguely recall having some keyboard difficulties. There was some confusion when it came to the OS X keymap and the X11 one. Anyway, moot point now. < 1342028850 739483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so retro. < 1342028875 587658 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hipsters everywhere :F < 1342028890 477047 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Apple ][ screensaver in xscreensaver does some monitor emulation things too, and IIRC you can use it as a regular terminal emulator with the right command flags. < 1342028896 414063 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it was some other of the hacks. But still. < 1342028924 463475 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apple2 – simulates an Apple II computer, showing a user entering a simple BASIC program and running it. When run from the command-line, it is a fully functional terminal emulator (as is Phosphor.)" yes it was like that. < 1342028933 956097 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably not OpenGL-accelerated though. < 1342029019 886724 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1342029024 689682 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :its libphosphor < 1342029372 965288 :stanley!sam@unaffiliated/stanley JOIN :#esoteric < 1342029878 158906 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel need to design a language < 1342030030 156062 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on. < 1342030039 518433 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully it's not a brainfuck derivative. < 1342030096 817652 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate them < 1342030114 128421 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather something minimal and elegant < 1342030218 166862 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1342030268 434951 :stanley!sam@unaffiliated/stanley PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1342030335 40700 :Sgeou!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, are there any Game of Life programs capable of seeding an infinite random grid? < 1342030351 528889 :Sgeou!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Life32's grid is infinite, but can it randomly seed it? < 1342030401 629425 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds somewhat difficult. < 1342030558 713546 :Sgeou!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net NICK :Sgeo < 1342030580 725701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you're only interested in a single cell, to know what happens to it in generation k you'd have to consider every place that can be reached from it at the speed of light in k ticks. < 1342030695 149255 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :try limiting the speed < 1342030715 689769 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :of information propagation in the world < 1342030732 677656 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives funny effects like something that looks like doppler effect < 1342030735 335106 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :for gliders < 1342030774 520865 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't say it would be efficient < 1342030806 225997 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, hmm? < 1342030997 925976 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii QUIT :Quit: kwertii < 1342031447 272971 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-96.elisa.ee QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1342031483 611406 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-34-149-9.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1342031486 882552 :pikhq_!~pikhq@70-56-231-190.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342032647 796235 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders a functional programming language where programs consist of sets of matched brackets.
< 1342032688 562777 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp? < 1342032694 215360 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems simple enough. Say that (...) means the first thing within it applied to all of the rest of the things within it. I'm not sure what () would mean. < 1342032704 554747 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then [...] means all of the things within it, composed. [] is the identity function. < 1342032711 351361 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1342032768 43330 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessee. (...) follows the rule that ((X)Y), where X and Y are strings of expressions, is equal to (XY). < 1342032796 741125 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :It follows that (()Y) should be equal to (Y). Thus, () should also be the identity function. < 1342032923 830593 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, we'll want to be able to express the S and K combinators somehow. < 1342032978 714763 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :We might want to say that {abc...}x = ((ax)(bx)(cx)...). Then {} is KI, which doesn't seem that useful. < 1342033027 82130 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342033108 178683 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, of course, {ab} is Sab. < 1342033111 674715 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! < 1342033118 330875 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, Taneb. < 1342033126 116060 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick context? < 1342033143 641832 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pondering a functional programming language where programs consist of sets of matched brackets. < 1342033189 514878 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Souns cool < 1342033199 820028 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*t < 1342033203 878376 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/t/d/ < 1342033205 733703 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be more fun if it was a language where programs consist solely of sets of UNmatched brackets. < 1342033221 737791 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tal vez. < 1342033230 239898 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Sounds coot" < 1342033326 493204 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Tal vez" is Hebrew for "fuck off".) < 1342033666 195200 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know if Netflix and Spotify have linux clients? < 1342033701 526542 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1342033729 987268 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome sirdancealot < 1342033739 583434 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sirdancealot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1342033739 782378 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1342033747 706937 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1342033775 851288 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome sirdancealot < 1342033779 391579 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sirdancealot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1342033790 790003 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :We want you to feel as welcome as possible. < 1342033795 997305 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome tswett < 1342033797 686934 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp, theyre testing their bot on me < 1342033798 974897 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1342033811 537290 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how's tswett pronounced? T-Sweat?" < 1342033815 987732 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: thank you! <3 < 1342033821 920820 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, that's exactly how you pronounce it. < 1342033824 427469 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1342033871 850299 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name is also the name of a famous moirallegiance. < 1342033882 290598 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "they" were testing the bot, they'd use some of those weirdly capitulated or wide versions. < 1342033891 189662 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you on Sgeo's update list? < 1342033899 581676 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1342033912 732429 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think of you as a Homestuck fan < 1342033937 789802 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I converted tswett < 1342033940 959999 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1342033942 568132 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also the guy that invented chromatography in the year 1900. < 1342033950 525523 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first name is Mikhail. < 1342033954 724849 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to meet you < 1342033965 587903 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my name is Marie Curie. < 1342033973 770328 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice to meet you too < 1342033979 147661 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I died of beeing to radioactive. < 1342033992 985080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just Taneb, or Ngevd online. < 1342034004 329954 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nathan irl, if you happen to meet me < 1342034005 791913 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1342034022 957545 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: do you live in West Michigan or Chicago? < 1342034030 216971 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1342034038 731123 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in the CAPITAL OF ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING, Hexham < 1342034050 72239 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sirdancealot, do you live in Hexham or Finland? < 1342034052 93773 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :In... < 1342034054 966204 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up.
< 1342034055 165522 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1342034060 477077 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Northumberland? < 1342034062 853198 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1342034071 535035 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me and elliott live there, but we've never met eachother? < 1342034090 854369 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 in 6000 people here frequent this channel < 1342034107 167832 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's more than any place where more than 1 person frequents the channel < 1342034137 106462 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you live near Manchester. < 1342034142 943946 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1342034145 302375 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowhere near < 1342034149 174988 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, 100 miles away < 1342034174 703665 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :150, according to google maps < 1342034176 628516 :Dovregubben!~kurt@c-67-160-13-34.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342034193 49059 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably closer to edinburgh than to manchester. < 1342034210 717939 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By more than 50 miles < 1342034218 310048 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite close to Newcastle? < 1342034237 543600 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I've never looked at the UK and the US on a map with the same scale. < 1342034254 391341 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you found a map that does that? < 1342034273 355958 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, all world maps have to do that. < 1342034277 818657 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant superimposed. < 1342034305 553043 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK's... bigger than I though < 1342034306 128782 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1342034306 327941 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the UK is about as big as... Newfoundland and Labrador? < 1342034316 425908 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard of that. < 1342034321 930377 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes I have. < 1342034325 335292 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see. < 1342034332 458405 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham is right next to new castle. < 1342034333 488652 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK is farther north than I thought. < 1342034351 226950 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm further north than the vast majority of the people in Canada < 1342034364 378752 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: the US is annoyingly large. < 1342034379 688839 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: how north are you? < 1342034382 848896 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham north < 1342034391 170791 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :55 degrees, I think < 1342034411 119398 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I knew Hexham by name. < 1342034411 850300 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :54.9, according to Wikipedia < 1342034413 288761 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. I'm 65 degrees north < 1342034424 877294 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm... 43 degrees north. < 1342034425 814400 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but you're in Finland < 1342034429 369656 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE LAND OF THE FINNS < 1342034435 417792 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :The weather here still sucks. < 1342034448 395971 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Average summer high: 28 C. Blegh. < 1342034453 853810 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :28 whole Cs? < 1342034457 977480 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be so lucky. < 1342034460 712681 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :28 entire C! < 1342034468 386987 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's... 17 C here today < 1342034476 281638 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uk area: 94,060 sq mi, arizona area: 113,990 sq mi < 1342034488 61646 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :28 C, isn't that... perfect? < 1342034499 46381 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not too hot, not too cold. < 1342034513 520755 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say 24? < 1342034522 596640 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is far too hot. around 17 C is good < 1342034536 211237 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :36 C is hot. < 1342034539 289204 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 17 and really wet here < 1342034543 195385 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 is hot < 1342034552 626899 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 is hot too. < 1342034552 825738 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1342034560 468241 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 is pretty hot < 1342034563 145933 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah. < 1342034566 195938 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 is sunbathing temperature < 1342034566 462133 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :24 is almost cold again. < 1342034570 230736 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No way. < 1342034574 860162 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 is almost cold again < 1342034575 201887 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :26,27 is perfect. < 1342034578 351265 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-30 is cold < 1342034582 784024 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The average summer high in Edinburgh is colder than that in Helsinki. < 1342034584 617036 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAY TOO HOT < 1342034586 562325 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything under 20 C is cold. < 1342034600 386275 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, british temperature doesn't vary much < 1342034609 162244 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1342034614 159558 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it were 30 here < 1342034628 336363 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coldest I've seen, -12? Warmest, 29? < 1342034658 193300 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coldest I have seen was about -38 and warmest about 40 < 1342034691 649490 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :36 right now, which is cooler than it has been < 1342034699 789448 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god where are you < 1342034709 562280 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tucson, arizona < 1342034722 736083 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phoenix and yuma are hotter than us < 1342034724 734658 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serves you right for being so far damn south < 1342034728 213605 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arizona is barely fit for human habitation though. < 1342034728 411926 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1342034732 865617 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-20 at night. < 1342034739 51577 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1342034739 270930 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I didn't really see it :) < 1342034799 628517 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard it's been a not very warm July this year in (at least southern) Finland. < 1342034816 115204 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here in swiss. < 1342034822 889298 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fucking raining all the time. < 1342034826 432200 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :14.81 C at the moment according to outside.hut.fi, which I always check. < 1342034830 787694 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh so I implemented a locking mechanism (to enforce single instance).. and then I realized it does not work because this program launches a gui thread and so my lock dies < 1342034853 168690 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :raining, hail, storms < 1342034865 449698 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got exciting rain. < 1342034878 929431 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've just got sporadic miserable drizzle, followed by flooding < 1342034918 534245 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then bright sunshine < 1342034923 422100 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exciting rain. < 1342034927 569369 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sometimes gets all the way up to 21 < 1342034929 235352 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very heavy rain. < 1342034941 678220 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's raining cats and dogs! < 1342034959 89160 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lie close to the roof and listen to it :) < 1342035001 427253 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :here the rain is also pretty boring except when it rains sideways < 1342035022 18017 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sometimes rains upwards here < 1342035036 732096 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see that < 1342035139 449875 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you walking in handstand position on hexham abbey? < 1342035171 332851 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :me? < 1342035201 173679 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah. < 1342035203 161778 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :him. < 1342035251 234632 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1342035257 520803 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the best way to get around < 1342035419 778943 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1342035584 917764 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-21-17.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1342035594 348790 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat. without extra binaries like strace my clean build of userland of my distro take 1 minute and 44 seconds on my machine < 1342035605 864675 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-my < 1342035766 29807 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1342036232 656277 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks today
< 1342036241 718203 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s mezzacotta comic is pretty good :P < 1342036255 927925 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342036276 720267 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oerjan thinks today's mezzacotta comic is pretty good :P < 1342036295 348380 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for a mezzacotta comic < 1342036378 443384 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's an incomprehensible labyrinth of nonsense, but it's pretty good. < 1342036379 881675 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1342036455 216377 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hey no fair doing ungoogleable citations < 1342036549 262029 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote < oerjan> Gregor: hey no fair doing ungoogleable citations < 1342036551 992804 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :850) < oerjan> Gregor: hey no fair doing ungoogleable citations < 1342036580 915665 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wut? < 1342036586 25098 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so that your quote is searchable . < 1342036911 166195 :Gregor!codu@codu.org TOPIC #esoteric :The Ünicode lookup channel | Individuals guilty of ruining this channel: itidus21 (ex officio), oerjan (ex cathedra), Gregor (ex post facto), olsner (k ex), ion (deus ex), others (see /names) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1342037138 155788 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1342037274 694711 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-226-144.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342037393 37083 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342038706 638519 :asiekierka_!~asiekierk@178235038077.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1342039146 166638 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1342039355 463332 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1342039408 18201 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've came to realise that creating a pair of Turing-complete machines and a correspondence such that a program in one machine halts iff the corresponding program in the other machine doesn't, would solve the halting problem < 1342039431 79523 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1342039467 77809 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either the program in the first machine or the corresponding machine in the second machine halts in finite time < 1342039482 90812 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1342039488 671241 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on < 1342039496 834469 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't I listen to my past self < 1342039526 690080 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1342039558 874070 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Executing both simultaneously and waiting for one to halt, then stopping both, is guaranteed to halt, at which point you can inspect which halted < 1342039674 673053 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a proof that there is no such correspondence < 1342039689 383435 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1342039715 722983 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering that there are more than two Turing-complete computation modelly things < 1342039738 769505 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, untyped lambda calculus and Wang's bathroom tiles < 1342039757 598532 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the original Turing Machine < 1342039865 535622 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean, M1 halts, if P halts, and doesn't if P doesn't halt < 1342039882 279039 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and M2 halts, if P doesn't halt, and doesn't halt if P halts? < 1342039944 850882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342039954 490725 :KlonMac7!~sIRC@agm118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1342039964 402453 :KlonMac7!~sIRC@agm118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1342039968 449162 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1342039974 890962 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome KlonMac7 < 1342039977 513601 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :KlonMac7: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1342039990 446522 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, precisely < 1342040035 632592 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least sounds like it busts the halting problem. < 1342040074 818233 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence, as the Halting problem has been repeatedly proven to be unsolvable, there is no such alternating correspondence between two Turing-machines < 1342040133 301401 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :KlonMac7: hello, i noticed your language has no flow control yet... < 1342040181 590197 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342040212 147370 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an actual concrete program for which it is impossible to solve the halting problem? < 1342040228 169301 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: an interpreter of a TC language >:) < 1342040255 324799 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't quite count. < 1342040258 395518 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by program, you mean program/input pair, I don't think so < 1342040272 915488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Why doesn't it count? < 1342040273 122138 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But goodnight! < 1342040277 308635 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-76-40.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1342040287 642925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are certainly plenty of programs which we have no idea whether they'll halt or not. < 1342040312 198878 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Because the interpreter can be reduced to the problem of the halting problem of the program it is executing. < 1342040322 897547 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the interpreter is just a layer we can ignore. < 1342040334 849267 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: note that for a given program and input, there always exists _some_ program that can tell whether it halts or not. (print "Halts" and print "Doesn't halt") < 1342040337 522896 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a bf program terminates, so does it's interpreter. < 1342040342 718749 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one of < 1342040365 667153 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Classicalist! < 1342040368 489790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Classicist? < 1342040370 444414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1342040388 237355 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's what I figured. < 1342040425 540238 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is, does a program exists that does it in finite time? < 1342040429 62197 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :-s < 1342040454 454797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: You should probably read what oerjan said again. < 1342040458 673463 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: um one of those does so in _constant_ time. < 1342040506 590314 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which just makes the halting problem less significant for me. < 1342040549 651597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Yes, I'm pretty sure you should read what oerjan said again. :-) < 1342040559 321809 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to clarify, the _programs_ are 'print "Halts"' and 'print "Doesn't halt"' < 1342040588 312120 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of them always gives the right answer (says the classicist) < 1342040592 537488 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just more confusing actually. < 1342040601 801363 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1342040611 334730 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're sugesting a program that guesses? < 1342040614 786303 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+g < 1342040618 137648 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fair. < 1342040622 124567 :KlonMac7!~sIRC@agm118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Quit: IRCDisconnect! - IRCMod by TheEndermen < 1342040633 219004 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1342040635 623019 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: no, i'm suggesting two programs. for any given input, one of them will be correct. < 1342040650 893791 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you know which one, that's pretty much useless < 1342040657 471961 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not what I meant to ask for actually. < 1342040687 120568 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: the point i'm really trying to point out here is that unsolvability doesn't make _sense_ for a single program/input case. < 1342040693 81932 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*make here < 1342040720 130734 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1342040741 924007 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can solve the halting problem with a program written by a human for a given program written by a human < 1342040773 829180 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the halting problem says that there is no way to construct a program that tells correctly for _every_ halting question instance. < 1342040782 990547 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or written by a program written by a human) < 1342040786 949199 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the halting theorem < 1342040810 642251 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: now you are getting into AI theory, because that's needed to define those terms... < 1342040822 141572 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that mean that you can solve it for every program a human can write < 1342040836 774252 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and humans can write every program that can exist. < 1342040845 995024 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: um a human can write a program that they don't know whether halts or not. < 1342040850 645033 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans can't write every program that exists. < 1342040862 32727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's easy to write a program that no one knows whether it'll halt. < 1342040872 103041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that people care about whether it'll halt, also.) < 1342040879 113696 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1342040883 487989 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I asked for. < 1342040886 485714 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a program. < 1342040924 324445 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1342040935 847224 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one knows doesn't quite mean that it can't be solved at all. < 1342040950 592902 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i = 0; ; i++) { if (containsNon421Cycle(collatz(i))) { halt(); } } < 1342040970 899521 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a classical example program, yes. < 1342041006 352098 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but afaik it's just not proven *yet* that it always ends up in the same cycle. < 1342041043 500822 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: so? it is by no means unlikely that many of the unsolved mathematical problems are unsolvable < 1342041045 648554 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Lots of things aren't proven *yet*. < 1342041071 558461 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps collatz can be solved, but then almost certainly some other problem cannot < 1342041204 87177 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head [n | n <- [1, 3..], n == sum [m | m <- [1..n-1], n `mod` m == 0]] < 1342041208 184407 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1342041212 47871 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1342041213 816517 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1342041224 297034 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> head [n | n <- [2, 4..], n == sum [m | m <- [1..n-1], n `mod` m == 0]] < 1342041225 947252 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1342041339 308873 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: also disallowing things embedding interpreters is disingenious because embedding an interpreter for something TC is the main way most proofs of unsolvability are done. < 1342041543 986459 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, i could write a program that searches for solutions to the post correspondence theorem and that would be an example of a program whose halting problem is undecidable - but the reason we _know_ that is because the turing machine halting problem can be encoded into it. < 1342041551 149208 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if a Program in a TC language terminates, so does the interpreter. < 1342041562 396052 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the interpreter interpreting the interpreter interpreting the program < 1342041565 624363 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is essentially a form of interpretation. < 1342041591 93408 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: yes, and so? < 1342041647 885939 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means that an interpreter is a bad example program as an answer to my question. < 1342041697 683342 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: yes, but as i say most _known_ example program are known precisely because they are interpreters in disguise ... sometimes deeply disguised. < 1342041703 56187 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1342041749 573564 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be counterexamples which i haven't heard about. < 1342041828 675831 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or there might not be. < 1342042110 74215 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8 < 1342042586 584363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1342043317 898211 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1342043669 274915 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the season 1-2 intro better < 1342044935 220714 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do I, but it works a lot better with those seasons than later ones. < 1342045289 530656 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1342045358 387131 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: what language are you using to implement your lisp on spectrum? < 1342046098 166991 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1342046401 552723 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuNs1v_jtfs < 1342047744 314794 :oerjan!~oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Ribbit < 1342047987 400218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1342048004 215387 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I meant the music < 1342048024 375942 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same is true of that. < 1342048235 366150 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh the fan in my window a/c just got loud < 1342048269 803227 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how much of a pain in the ass it will be to figure out where it is and fix it < 1342048933 601942 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1342049665 201425 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1342049721 29281 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola < 1342049731 642622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Veronica < 1342049734 956773 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Veronica: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1342049742 985904 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THank < 1342049756 753040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME oerjan < 1342049760 392502 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :OERJAN: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1342049768 572181 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :¿how are you? < 1342049770 386086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: THANKS < 1342049785 498364 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome Shachaf < 1342049794 837996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks < 1342049797 983109 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thanks: not found < 1342049800 110957 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1342049809 864068 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: YOU'RE WELCOME < 1342049814 232708 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(WAIT, DID I JUST SAY THAT?) < 1342049817 278548 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracias < 1342049817 839725 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NOES < 1342049824 69032 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAblas español < 1342049845 442040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1342049854 188246 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holaaaaaaaaa < 1342049859 282019 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ OERJAN < 1342049860 487579 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alguien habla español < 1342049862 554747 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ＯＥＲＪＡＮ：　ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＴＨＥ　ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ　ＨＵＢ　ＦＯＲ　ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ　ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ　ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ　ＤＥＳＩＧＮ　ＡＮＤ　ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！　ＦＯＲ　ＭＯＲＥ　ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ，　ＣＨＥＣＫ　ＯＵＴ　ＯＵＲ　ＷＩＫＩ：　ＨＴＴＰ：／／ＥＳＯＬＡＮＧＳ < 1342049883 836377 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ＯＥＲＪＡＮ：　ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＴＨＥ　ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ　ＨＵＢ　ＦＯＲ　ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ　ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ　ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ　ＤＥＳＩＧＮ　ＡＮＤ　ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！　ＦＯＲ　ＭＯＲＥ　ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ，　ＣＨＥＣＫ　ＯＵＴ　ＯＵＲ　ＷＩＫＩ：　ＨＴＴＰ：／／ＥＳＯＬＡ < 1342049901 88163 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :holaaaaaaaaaa < 1342049902 930270 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1342049927 579954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this unicode is getting out of hand < 1342049953 995458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The Unicode smackdown channel | Individuals guilty of ruining this channel: itidus21 (ex officio), oerjan (ex cathedra), Gregor (ex post facto), olsner (k ex), ion (deus ex), others (see /names) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1342049998 546191 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ami guilt yof ru iningt hischa nnel? < 1342050013 717765 :Veronica!~veronica@200.82.158.233 PART :#esoteric < 1342050070 993340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The Unicode smackdown channel | Individuals guilty of ruining this channel: itidus21 (ex officio), oerjan (ex cathedra), Gregor (ex post facto), olsner (k ex), ion (deus ex), shachaf (ex machina), others (see /names) | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1342050093 346723 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: kahdeksankymmeltäyhdeksän? < 1342050140 759190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: More like "kahdeksankymmentäyhdeksän". < 1342050150 420028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lern2finnish < 1342050158 629604 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ok < 1342050169 827417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And then teach me. :-( < 1342050228 142930 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :airo on meidän