< 1343001607 59215 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: because you can't get water at an acceptable temperature for hand-washing < 1343001613 263044 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to say, a mixture of hot and cold < 1343001632 901032 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, if you'd consider assembly, something like... bt (reads a bit vector, sets carry flag) followed by sbb 0 perhaps? < 1343001662 505269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq_: -!((~col)>>24) < 1343001678 447977 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not right, removing the ~ makes it work < 1343001696 939333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: huh? the ~ is essential... < 1343001721 523016 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't work right. < 1343001828 532656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%u", -!((~0xFF012345)>>24)) < 1343001830 615131 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4294967295 < 1343001843 891964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%u", -1); < 1343001846 240481 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4294967295 < 1343001855 199925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%u", -!((~0xFE012345)>>24)) < 1343001857 451861 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1343001864 89888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%u", -!((~0x00012345)>>24)) < 1343001866 634744 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1343001876 473926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: that's what you said you wanted... < 1343001901 680790 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Weird*. Sticking it in my code base gives me the wrong mask. < 1343001938 881953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a replacement for -!!((col & 0xFF000000) ^ 0xFF000000) < 1343001974 521678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it assumes, of course, that the bit width is 4 bytes and no more < 1343001991 953450 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION declares himself confused
< 1343001998 27026 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is col signed? < 1343002009 317772 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1343002016 143426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : why do so many sinks in the UK have separate faucets for hot and cold water < 1343002016 317680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : it is completely unreasonable < 1343002019 394339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf do you do in the US < 1343002026 293241 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm dealing in uint32_t so it must be. < 1343002029 447086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: because you can't get water at an acceptable temperature for hand-washing < 1343002029 618125 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : which is to say, a mixture of hot and cold < 1343002045 671657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the hot tap works just fine, just don't dawdle... alternatively, mix the two in the sink < 1343002046 82049 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0xFFFFFFFF < 1343002047 457918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4294967295 < 1343002054 356529 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: uh you have a single faucet with two knobs, or a two-dimensional knob < 1343002060 668441 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can make it produce water of any temperature < 1343002062 972842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but doing that all the time would be weird) < 1343002069 771875 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fill up the basin and then wash my hands in it? < 1343002071 741523 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1343002072 398229 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: we have those in kitchens < 1343002075 90607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it is < 1343002075 440461 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross and wasteful < 1343002077 645423 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah and showers < 1343002080 238759 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you just use the hot tap < 1343002083 159255 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(col & 0xFF000000) == 0xFF000000 ? 0 : 0xFFFFFFFF // This gives me what I want without being insane < 1343002089 206254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get scalded it is because you are weak and inferior < 1343002099 205635 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh srsly < 1343002100 405574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hm the ! might convert to some other bitsize? < 1343002105 102215 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like that sauna guy with the kidney thing < 1343002126 368157 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i havent got scalded yet but it's still uncomfortable < 1343002131 641212 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :too hot water = too short hand washing < 1343002134 969825 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric := everyone gets plague and dies < 1343002149 538542 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT HAPPENED HERE, WON'T YOU LEARN FROM HISTORY < 1343002152 647812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: does -(uint32_t)!((~col)>>24) work? < 1343002162 110891 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so wait < 1343002163 467844 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 2 < 1343002164 440915 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :faucets < 1343002167 319675 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a sink? < 1343002176 122053 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, separate faucets several inches apart < 1343002178 468899 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mind. blown.
< 1343002182 580891 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculous < 1343002191 85838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: yes < 1343002192 674407 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: I think usually they are on the opposite sides of the sink too < 1343002199 664380 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth < 1343002200 808086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!printf("%u", -!0); < 1343002206 385567 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pim.famnit.upr.si/blog/index.php?/archives/22-British-taps-1.html < 1343002214 800823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: http://www.salvo.co.uk/images/userimgs/40375/Sink_52385_1.jpg except less old fashioned < 1343002215 842352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%u", -!0); < 1343002217 939935 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :4294967295 < 1343002218 91204 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :filling up the basin to wash your hands is ridiculous, inefficient, gross, and wasteful < 1343002233 119988 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: depends on how long you wash your hands < 1343002239 543690 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i disagree this "works just fine" < 1343002240 467324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bruceonshaving.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Sink-and-Mirror-by-Antonio-Lopez-Garcia-traditional-shaving.jpg < 1343002245 790303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : filling up the basin to wash your hands is ridiculous, inefficient, gross, and wasteful < 1343002249 879986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was not a serious suggestion btw < 1343002250 878444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :calm down < 1343002251 270819 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make it work, it's still clearly worse than a single tap < 1343002266 204792 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's not just you, i am reading this suggestion all over the internet as i try to figure out this madness < 1343002277 545803 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it sounded like you were serious about the separate faucets thing being a good idea < 1343002278 325051 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like everyone has their own urban legend for why it's done this way < 1343002284 28738 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like someone says hot water is not necessarily potable < 1343002284 745072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see how it's wasteful per se though < 1343002293 535956 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well I just do not care mostly < 1343002301 464949 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because you use more water filling the basin < 1343002303 88677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually find the hot tap not hot enough for ages anyway < 1343002308 345780 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? i'm not positive < 1343002317 716296 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think washing hands in a bowl of water is how it was done in the days before running water < 1343002318 751905 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you sure? I suspect you use more when it just goes down the drain < 1343002325 939938 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't know < 1343002327 638093 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so obviously you continue when you get the faucets installed < 1343002339 649151 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hysterical raisins < 1343002340 339375 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I changed the water heater in my apartment so that it's hotter. < 1343002365 185404 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent choice. < 1343002369 595612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use the hot tap and then rinse with the cold tap < 1343002371 233867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I am weird < 1343002371 855492 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I can burn myself via the sink! < 1343002393 20543 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a real man. < 1343002402 247874 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some (old?) farm buildings, there are two taps < 1343002410 583977 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's hard and soft water < 1343002413 362049 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than hot and cold < 1343002425 685914 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard water from a well, soft water from rain collection < 1343002442 169828 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the hard water is non-potable and/or disgusting as well < 1343002449 773100 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the well. < 1343002458 772754 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parents have well water and it's perfectly fine. < 1343002463 935814 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1343002473 366052 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also tastes better than city tap, by far. < 1343002475 527779 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Washing your hands with just the hot tap is easy anyway. < 1343002487 233855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget whether we have hard or soft tap water in Hexham. < 1343002490 237232 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably taneb knows < 1343002497 766580 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :firm tap. < 1343002521 72072 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd tap that < 1343002529 189326 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably have hard water, poorly filtered and full of whatever the thing is that you don't want in there < 1343002540 73184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Information from the British Drinking Water Inspectorate shows that drinking water in England is generally considered to be 'very hard', with most areas of England, particularly east of a line between the Severn and Tees estuaries, exhibiting above 200 ppm for the calcium carbonate equivalent." < 1343002567 674682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: if you're a conspiracy theorist, fluoride! < 1343002600 29601 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd tap that for 2 mana < 1343002600 219433 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here use mosh? < 1343002605 204921 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use mosh < 1343002606 468079 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might set it up on my server, because ssh lag is killing me. < 1343002608 95467 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm one of the developers < 1343002611 203116 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Urgh*. Trying to blit stuff in seems to be slower than a conditional write. < 1343002614 198157 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh cool. < 1343002632 927580 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy to answer any questions :) < 1343002638 665316 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also have #mosh < 1343002645 627008 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was having issues with it until I set my locale properly < 1343002652 990702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used mosh for a while < 1343002653 536339 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm traveling all over europe, and mosh is making my life much happier < 1343002660 766134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget to use it lately < 1343002666 368683 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: ah -- the locale stuff got more automagic in mosh 1.2 < 1343002671 529791 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you're not running that already) < 1343002671 767044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is still set up on the server that runs esolangs.org < 1343002689 849640 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's what I'm running actually. I think my server was set up for ISO-blahblah by default < 1343002698 314441 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I switched to en_US.UTF-8 < 1343002699 525932 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's that in degrees Clarke? < 1343002707 494159 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com ) < 1343002717 376579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: idk !!!! < 1343002720 618325 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in german degrees of hardness? < 1343002722 681992 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mosh 1.2+, the client sends the locale-related environment variables to the server < 1343002754 918047 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the locale must be installed on the server, right? < 1343002757 448112 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1343002761 154842 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that was the issue. < 1343002768 250947 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1343002770 493354 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have /all/ the locales. < 1343002771 599326 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what server OS? < 1343002775 738022 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :) < 1343002775 927306 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian testing. < 1343002807 350616 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ uname -a < 1343002807 526289 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux spirity.org 3.2.13-grsec-xxxx-grs-ipv6-64 #1 SMP Thu Mar 29 09:48:59 UTC 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1343002810 271493 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1343002828 761464 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that doesn't say much about the OS or locale settings ;P < 1343002834 671300 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since you seem to be running a custom kernel < 1343002841 379863 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1343002842 447013 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my doing. < 1343002857 941997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it actually should be -!!((~col)>>24), i just realized i was confused by an erroneous "not" in your non-code explanation < 1343002863 159621 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an kimsufi server (which is just a reseller of OVH) . < 1343002870 607368 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the long run i think mosh should switch to a dedicated unicode library, which doesn't care about system locales < 1343002878 894289 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah cool < 1343002884 929270 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kudos to them for using grsec < 1343002895 47317 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also insanely cheap. 15 euros a month. < 1343002913 213851 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1343002926 252221 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the specs aren't great. I don't need awesome specs. < 1343002952 206730 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use the C locale? On the Linux I use at Free Geek they use Unicode locale by default but I made it C locale and the CP437 characters on my account that make it work. < 1343002968 71256 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just removing ~ will _not_ work if the top byte is neither 0x00 nor 0xFF) < 1343002973 682430 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Mosh is hardcoded for Unicode and UTF-8 < 1343002989 759618 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb moshitizing my irssi < 1343002993 124578 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1343003005 793054 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the locale functions to get character properties such as width (zero, one, or two terminal cells) and for utf-8 encoding/decoding < 1343003011 48807 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those things won't work in plain C locale < 1343003015 39066 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if the english water is "generally considered to be 'very hard'", why do they use that scale? they should switch to a scale where most of england has the usual hardness of water < 1343003021 483190 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some systems have a human-language-agnostic "C.UTF-8" locale < 1343003024 682345 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's far from universal < 1343003033 460297 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should go on some fallback list of locales to try < 1343003058 810871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i've read that not having hot enough hot water tanks can breed legionella < 1343003086 369491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also vaguely recall seeing separate hot and cold faucets in norway, in ancient buildings. < 1343003116 230903 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: you should split out the alpha part from the rest of the image, then you only have to read 1 byte before you decide whether to read or write a color at all < 1343003127 64902 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also machines don't even agree on the capitalization of "UTF" :( < 1343003173 256466 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you could further compress the alpha channel to eliminate more work) < 1343003173 772685 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some OSes still don't support UTF-8 terminals < 1343003175 161885 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1343003190 457897 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether you can backspace over a multi-byte character is a property of the *kernel* < 1343003193 480175 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because UNIX is insane < 1343003212 628728 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Swiss Ephemeris testing program is also hardcoded for UTF-8 so what I did is write a shell script, which, as well as including the current date, time, and location, also converts the UTF-8 degree sign encoding to the shift-out/shift-in encoding. < 1343003338 793371 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1343003359 493985 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, mosh also deliberately ignores the ISO-2022 character set shift codes < 1343003364 635678 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has been the subject of much controversy < 1343003378 943280 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how many ISO specs he can describe from just the number
< 1343003414 582149 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Swiss Ephemeris testing program also lacks the ability to automatically select the current date and time, I don't know why that is, either) < 1343003416 535997 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :646, 10646, 9899, 9000, 9600, 2022, 3103 < 1343003450 807633 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is mosh? < 1343003458 56632 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy ssh thing. < 1343003459 868552 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mosh.mit.edu/ < 1343003461 577092 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION best description
< 1343003468 853183 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Remote terminal application that allows roaming, supports intermittent connectivity, and provides intelligent local echo and line editing of user keystrokes." < 1343003486 365801 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses SSH for the connection setup, but the ongoing session runs over a new UDP-based protocol < 1343003507 403845 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has terminal-aware flow control as well < 1343003540 13546 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could mosh be modified to support the non-Unicode mode? < 1343003551 918893 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically at every moment in time, the server is trying to update the client's terminal to the current state < 1343003556 506244 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost like a video conferencing protocol < 1343003572 244371 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this also means it has terminal-aware flow control < 1343003584 957733 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a packet is dropped, you might not want to retransmit that packet; the terminal may have changed in the meantime < 1343003601 562834 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a remote command spews output, you get "snapshots" of that spew at whatever framerate your connection can sustain < 1343003603 486996 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Hmm. < 1343003619 672355 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than getting a lagged complete sequence of the output, like ssh < 1343003625 997748 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means mplayer -vo caca works much better over mosh < 1343003630 781408 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a killer feature of course < 1343003658 77657 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Drawing sprites and grid tiles seems to be pretty darned hard given how these things are specified. < 1343003658 928263 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: could, but won't. < 1343003659 942279 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We're really not UTF-8 zealots. But it's a lot easier to correctly implement one terminal emulator than to try to do the right thing in a variety of difficult edge cases. (This is what GNU screen tries to do, and in our experience it leads to some very tricky-to-debug situations.) So mosh just won't start up until the user has everything configured for a UTF-8-clean pathway. It may be annoying, but it also probably reduces frustration down < 1343003661 500066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: i've read that not having hot enough hot water tanks can breed legionella < 1343003664 821824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx, real reassuring < 1343003685 235045 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n.b. that's KeithW's writing, I *am* something of a a UTF-8 zealot) < 1343003688 324509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : which has been the subject of much controversy < 1343003689 319625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1343003702 841293 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: of course if by "non-Unicode" you mean ASCII only, then it will work fine < 1343003712 750482 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, you still need the locale to get that character info < 1343003716 180039 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, it does not really work fine < 1343003718 69076 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1343003733 116188 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have various software that wants to use ISO 2022 codes to draw line-drawing characters < 1343003735 467587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: btw you got cut off at "frustration down" < 1343003751 740256 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"... reduces frustration down the road. (Unfortunately an 8-bit vt220 and a UTF-8 vt220 are different and incompatible terminal types; the UTF-8 goes in underneath the vt220 state machine.)" < 1343003765 33613 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is why there's a minimum temperature for hot water systems somewhere slightly below the point that'll cause instant scalding < 1343003788 431948 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: much of this software can be convinced to draw them with UTF-8 encoded characters < 1343003795 627589 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like any other character < 1343003812 543339 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, a) some software can't, b) some people are offended that they have to do this < 1343003833 577717 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for ncurses software you just set NCURSES_NO_UTF8_ACS=1) < 1343003834 800662 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 master race. < 1343003843 727129 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1343003860 937982 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a decision to deliberately break compatibility in favor of pushing people slightly to a more sane state of affairs < 1343003864 15218 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are always tricky < 1343003874 68181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i am just surprised anyone actually cares about those things < 1343003874 828328 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mosh generally prides itself on Correct™ terminal emulation < 1343003885 419028 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is something of an exception < 1343003888 453646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: or rather, that such people would care about mosh < 1343003901 641378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess they only care about it insofar as they can complain about that aspect of it < 1343003901 853660 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hm, does video conferencing software also use UDP? < 1343003911 411873 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unfamiliar with the use cases of UDP < 1343003929 38447 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :although keithw will tell you that certain "UTF-8 scholars" consider ISO-10646 to supersede ISO-2022, the way the New Testament supersedes the Old < 1343003933 85309 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: yes, often < 1343003952 537294 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the only thing which actually works on the Internet anymore is TCP over port 443 < 1343003962 997786 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i imagine a lot of it falls back to that < 1343003969 726264 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about a general purpose "streaming" protocol. something like mpd if mpd were more like http (that doesn't make any sense does it) < 1343003984 702944 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: you want UDP for video conf because you can keep rollin' past a dropped packet < 1343003988 731779 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to retransmit everything < 1343003989 183458 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343004002 141102 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mosh is not quite the same < 1343004013 458130 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it will never display to you a terminal state which did not occur on the server at some point < 1343004031 607780 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :updates of the visible terminal state are atomic (ignoring the delay between mosh-client and your terminal emulator and X etc) < 1343004040 85334 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't do reliable retransmit either < 1343004053 717799 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the states are indexed by an incrementing sequence number < 1343004064 358728 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapidly changing my irssi screen size tends to mes it up, I've noticed. < 1343004080 925857 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the server remembers a range of the state numbers which it knows the client has saved < 1343004085 523457 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will base each new state on one of those < 1343004099 655208 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and once the client knows the server knows it has a later state, it's free to drop an earlier one < 1343004105 934236 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all in the paper on mosh.mit.edu if you want to learn more < 1343004114 79314 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: interesting, mess up how? and does it eventually fix itself? < 1343004128 321106 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually. I can't get it to do it again. :P < 1343004173 365918 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then modify mosh so that it can be used with CP437 and shift-in/shift-out encoding of special symbols (I have written some files to make it work with Linux, one of them is a copy of "mzx_ascii.chr" from MegaZeux). < 1343004208 19430 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you can buy polish jaffa cakes in boston for $1 per 10 < 1343004215 705623 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not as cheap as the UK but pretty good for the US < 1343004241 183158 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did you read the rationale for being UTF-8 only < 1343004264 627077 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which shift-in/shift-out encoding is this? ISO-2022 codes like \e(0 ? < 1343004264 815347 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like it's magically trained itself to not break anymore. < 1343004265 944189 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1343004301 189943 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I mean the ASCII codes for shift-in and shift-out < 1343004317 496002 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1343004327 942455 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I did read the retionale for being UTF-8 only and I disagree. So if I ever use mosh I will make a non-Unicode version. < 1343004347 91282 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, 0x0E and 0x0F? < 1343004357 322111 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been spamming various xmonad key combos to rapidly reorient the window and nothing will make it do the same thing. in any case it was a really minor thing, the topic and notification bars in irssi weren't displaying, but everything else was fine. < 1343004362 464079 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the meanings of those character specified by ISO-2022? < 1343004377 190227 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1343004381 118542 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do they do with CP437 under DOS? < 1343004389 851441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean 0x0E and 0x0F. They do nothing under DOS. < 1343004391 120423 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they typically mean anything in a Linux terminal emulator? < 1343004402 202166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the Linux terminal emulator they do work. < 1343004407 854011 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which part do you disagree with < 1343004434 430514 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give me a command using 'printf' or such which would demonstrate the meaning < 1343004441 995993 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf '\x0efoo' and printf '\x0ffoo' do nothing special here < 1343004481 405739 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which part of the rationale do you disagree with < 1343004485 876239 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What terminal emulator are you using? Is it Linux, or is it another terminal emulator running under Linux? < 1343004492 434066 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are they gourmet polish jaffa cakes < 1343004500 358887 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: rxvt-unicode < 1343004518 549939 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it doesn't work with Unicode? < 1343004547 318513 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work in plain xterm either < 1343004552 407965 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does work in the Linux vt console < 1343004576 542919 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it works in the Linux console. < 1343004671 278994 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you famiiar with RUDP? < 1343004699 615011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you aware of [[In the UK, value added tax is payable on chocolate-covered biscuits, but not on chocolate-covered cakes. McVities defended its classification of Jaffa Cakes as cakes in court, producing a 12 inches (30 cm) Jaffa Cake to illustrate that its Jaffa Cakes were simply miniature cakes. McVities argued that a distinction between cakes and biscuits is, among other things, that biscuits would normally be expected to go soft when st < 1343004699 803496 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ale, whereas cakes would normally be expected to go hard. It was demonstrated to the Tribunal that Jaffa Cakes become hard when stale. Other factors taken into account by the Chairman, Potter QC, included the name, ingredients, texture, size, packaging, marketing, presentation, appeal to children, and manufacturing process. Potter ruled that the Jaffa Cake is a cake. McVities therefore won the case and VAT is not paid on Jaffa Cakes in the UK.[8] < 1343004700 455184 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: no < 1343004700 606351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1343004702 350893 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it could be suitable for a remote terminal, but I don't know much about it. < 1343004705 92083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the kind of thing that goes on in the UK < 1343004707 425482 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes i love this fact < 1343004710 698803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the best < 1343004719 186416 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: perhaps < 1343004725 958000 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Mosh doesn't even want guaranteed in-order datagram delivery < 1343004728 930998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like has there ever been a more entertaining case over whether taxes need to be paid or not < 1343004742 283217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine being one of the lawyers < 1343004757 954336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OK, we need you to bake... a really big Jaffa Cake." "How big?" "The biggest Jaffa Cake." < 1343004768 83934 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But-" "WHO IS THE LAWYER HERE" < 1343004901 505226 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how does mosh distinguish between connection loss and intentionally closing the terminal? < 1343004922 124673 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1343004965 390379 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would be pretty easy to distinguish, actually. < 1343004977 117603 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the situation where terminal is closed while offline. < 1343004988 162289 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the local mosh client, that is. < 1343005186 154798 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1343005442 749864 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The files for CP437 in Linux includes: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/backup/load_mzx_ascii http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/backup/newunimap.1 and a copy of mzx_ascii.chr from MegaZeux < 1343005494 198470 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: yes, if you kill mosh-client while offline, the mosh-server process will keep running forever < 1343005507 508882 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mosh-client prints a message to this effect) < 1343005556 602186 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if the client machine kernel panics or battery dies or whatever < 1343005573 832175 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no way to reconnect to the orphaned mosh-server; you just log in and kill it < 1343005599 598076 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently if you want reconnection of this sort, you just run screen or tmux in mosh (which brings many other benefits) < 1343005611 983646 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exception is that a mosh-server which has *never* heard from the client will die after 60 s < 1343005659 586685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmm, that seems solvable < 1343005661 477249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how, though :) < 1343005678 641601 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it hangs forever? < 1343005687 648437 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can set an arbitrary timeout < 1343005701 503108 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think the best solution today is to use "mosh user@host -- screen -dr" < 1343005715 672019 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you mosh in again, the old screen gets detached and the old mosh session dies automatically < 1343005783 747834 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1343005804 734123 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's really no way for the server to distinguish "client has died" from "client is off the internet but will come back in 6 months" < 1343005840 928266 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for reconnecting to the orphaned mosh-server, we've discussed that but it seems pretty complicated and has some tricky security implications < 1343005847 395882 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the screen/tmux solution seems fine < 1343005859 765611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the fact that you can't reconnect without an extra wrapper < 1343005948 177614 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could add a way to talk to the old mosh-server from your new SSH session, say over a UNIX socket < 1343005959 747478 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds like a pain and is basically duplicating how screen/tmux already work < 1343005995 230489 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could add a way to persist the session to disk client-side < 1343006005 174826 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this seems bad bad bad because you're saving the crypto key < 1343006014 442137 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because you need to be damn sure you never use the same cryptographic nonce twice < 1343006051 829807 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a stale client side state file (full disk anyone?) could compromise your session < 1343006086 212462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1343006209 562193 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i kind of want mosh to swallow screen functionality though < 1343006218 506139 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you could have every multiplexed window saved client-side < 1343006222 812160 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and avoid the lag when switching windows < 1343006285 882368 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that any tricky shit with sockets needs to work on Linux (2.6.18 through 3.4, many distros), FreeBSD, OS X, and (soon) Cygwin and Solaris < 1343006397 173400 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1343007547 931090 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1343007580 979402 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1343007614 682928 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hehe there are places where the london overground crosses under the london underground < 1343007637 422223 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i got off an overground train underground and went up some stairs to travel on an underground train overground < 1343007646 992639 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(these being actually pretty arbitrary labels) < 1343007789 480048 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably historical labels. < 1343007853 993596 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be nice if the US had a decent bus/rail transit system. < 1343007863 926892 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on a regional basis. < 1343007944 562816 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atlanta in particular is notorious as a "vehicle only" city. < 1343008000 194792 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three major interstate highways converge in Atlanta: I-20 (east-west), I-75 (northwest-southeast), and I-85 (northeast-southwest). The latter two combine in the middle of the city to form the Downtown Connector (I-75/85), which carries more than 340,000 vehicles per day and is one of the ten most congested segments of interstate highway in the United States.[178] < 1343008521 128613 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: it's not exactly historical, but basically < 1343008580 76560 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainline trains are operated by various companies, according to franchises with the owner of the rail lines (which is almost but not quite the uk government) < 1343008614 969898 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: could SSP be used for audo/video streaming? < 1343008636 827566 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transport for London, who runs the Underground, set up such a franchise operator and got the franchise for various trains in the London area < 1343008688 877635 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's Overground < 1343008709 369744 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Skype allows roaming connections. SSP would < 1343008710 925541 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the distinction between rapid transit and mainline rail is also a bit fuzzy; they share tracks in some places and other bits have change from one to the other < 1343008722 480152 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: yes, KeithW is very interested in doing that < 1343008724 968875 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can talk to him in #mosh < 1343008757 770339 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: yeah, a number of cities in the USA have okay rail rapid transit, but intercity rail is mostly a joke < 1343008782 895419 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about the possibility of a UDP-based protocol for audo/video streaming (live or with playback) whose connections could be initializes over other protocols (such as HTTPS) < 1343008804 364249 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the northeast corridor from Boston to DC operates like a decent intercity line < 1343008814 381826 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not even talking about Acela (which is a joke as far as high speed rail goes) < 1343008820 61323 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that the trains are frequent and more or less run on time < 1343008858 988267 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: I think that's how most VoIP, videoconferencing, etc. works < 1343008866 741765 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up SIP protocol < 1343008872 878264 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and RTSP < 1343008878 746894 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know much but i can spout some acronyms < 1343008886 43226 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am lacking in the acronyms < 1343008911 478023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Session Initiation SIP Protocol < 1343008919 283459 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanchaf < 1343008923 402030 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I read about an open video container format designed partially by Skype that's well-suited for streaming. I can't recall the name though. < 1343008926 958288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :noproblemc < 1343008990 91702 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep this sounds like what I was thinking of. < 1343009024 622360 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean someone's aleady thought of that, and has more expertise than me? incredible < 1343009075 168096 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... youtube supports RTSP. cool. < 1343009080 169274 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1343009087 125337 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7937903/get-rtsp-url-from-youtube < 1343009154 223570 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1343009158 906947 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's used by their mobile player or such < 1343009173 307288 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on the m. prefix I would say so. < 1343009220 997187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you write lots of XML and lots of Java full of casts and things to make the Android thing? < 1343009222 321638 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like an easy way to rip youtube videos off the site. < 1343009228 7209 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Los Angeles makes me hopeful for city transit systems in the USA < 1343009234 352280 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the quintessential car city < 1343009240 696436 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet they've built a lot of transit in the past 20 years < 1343009246 450487 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good projects that people use < 1343009249 875057 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are building a lot more < 1343009264 130535 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one expects this will accelerate as gas gets more expensive < 1343009274 54494 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps the govt will keep subsidising driving until we're too fucked to fix it < 1343009280 397505 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what Android thing? < 1343009310 283301 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weren't you doing a few Android things? < 1343009312 976849 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them was mosh. < 1343009320 342954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that could've just been in another terminal. < 1343009324 134901 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got mosh to build with the android native toolchain somewhat < 1343009334 346788 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else has added mosh support to a connectbot fork < 1343009344 630057 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know some people that livestream video conferences via Skype calls, but have a lot of connection issues. < 1343009347 665533 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know to what extent they used my work < 1343009348 144932 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a graphicapp and it was terrible. :-( < 1343009350 565001 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway no Java or XML < 1343009353 424882 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could set up something more reliable. < 1343009356 882898 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1343009368 762736 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i did that GHC project for lol iPwn Studios way back when < 1343009372 48567 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have they ever produced anything < 1343009380 306896 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Cale still "working for them" < 1343009391 331591 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION crickets
< 1343009394 686002 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ipwn folded up < 1343009395 818080 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people still cite this 3+ years vaporware company as proof that Haskell is useful for gamedev? < 1343009402 74794 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1343009404 546534 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i'm not surprised :) < 1343009405 835900 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Oh, they did? < 1343009415 273921 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they theoretically owe me some money < 1343009420 907231 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ryan moved on to do something else in NYC < 1343009422 597048 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1343009428 704900 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but do they legally owe you any money? < 1343009430 772959 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: sue 'em! < 1343009435 590056 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not worth it < 1343009443 844136 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have enough money, and i'm not a vindictive person generally < 1343009449 471195 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1343009452 344945 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think they acted maliciously, just very very flakey < 1343009454 183536 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1343009459 34388 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I got that impression < 1343009471 648304 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: unclear, i have a contract but they can argue i didn't deliver exactly what the contract says < 1343009479 11359 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. < 1343009482 63206 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect it would be an annoying fight for a small sum of money, if anything < 1343009485 241086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: You should come to the west coast with ddarius. < 1343009488 143984 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has ran into these kinds of problems as a freelancer.
< 1343009494 284981 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm going to vegas next weekend < 1343009497 840253 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :close enough < 1343009499 4134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think ipwn folded up < 1343009501 783078 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOO < 1343009504 308674 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fortunate enough to have other sources of money, such that i don't have to fight for this one < 1343009504 582804 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how will I play that game. < 1343009505 294571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing. < 1343009507 836559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know the name. < 1343009513 517134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"other sources of money" < 1343009520 29557 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc sells drugs on the side < 1343009521 617189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bloodknight", apparently. < 1343009523 247402 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from selling drugs, right? < 1343009529 493466 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what happened to that 8-ball you owed me anyway? < 1343009532 729276 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never got it < 1343009533 400745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey kmc, drugs!!! < 1343009535 962559 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I lost something like $2000 over a contract dispute. I have no other source of income :| < 1343009546 920432 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1343009551 196347 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha copumpkin < 1343009552 344510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: was this the spammers < 1343009555 890658 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1343009565 215042 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've... sold drugs, but never for a profit. i think? < 1343009573 780065 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the trace variable stuff is interesting < 1343009573 969224 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1343009574 706579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw, I can't even mix told-you-so sentiments in with my well-wishes and sympathy then :/ < 1343009580 173067 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc only sells drugs at a loss < 1343009590 619962 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we lose money on every vial we sell, but we make up for it in volume < 1343009598 958210 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's good < 1343009647 41867 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :my internet connection is actually too shitty for mosh to do its thing properly. < 1343009676 15427 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(its thing being intelligent echo) < 1343009693 610811 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it wants at least one confirmation of the echo before it predicts < 1343009695 114004 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(per line) < 1343009702 143244 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can disable that with mosh --predict=experimental < 1343009704 887261 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on new enough builds < 1343009709 546664 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :how experimental is that? < 1343009712 303343 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it will echo your password temporarily after you sudo :) < 1343009723 295984 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good. < 1343009723 857446 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the consequences are well-understood, but may be unpleasant as noted < 1343009725 365975 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Can I buy some drugs? < 1343009738 69254 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it will echo vim command letters into your document temporarily < 1343009739 783981 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1343009761 580950 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily I live in a cave and shun all human company, so visible password echos probably aren't an issue. < 1343009788 222549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: 19:16 shachaf: I'm still working for Ryan at the moment, though iPwn is on hiatus until he can get more funding for it. The game engine is fairly close to being done, so it would be a shame if we didn't find some way to finish it at some point. < 1343009794 543803 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343009797 609982 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's some kind of malicious screencapture AI on my system, but I think I would notice that. < 1343009806 707320 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think it's been fairly close to being done for 2+ years < 1343009914 452911 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a JS backend for GHC needs to be a thing. < 1343009920 986998 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a thing < 1343009936 124098 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, was an experimental project for a while < 1343009938 671427 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know what became of it < 1343009947 209280 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly bitrotted like all the other cool haskell stuff :/ < 1343009955 793319 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. I believe that's what happened. < 1343009964 453618 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a javascript project for uhc as well < 1343009968 585909 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1343009983 258272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You should make a new Haskell compiler. < 1343009985 346569 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there still is one, as far as I know. < 1343010000 495066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There still is one, but there was one, as well. < 1343010002 743875 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i worked on one for a bit < 1343010008 283667 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TriBeCa Haskell Compiler or THC < 1343010010 720127 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :never released < 1343010011 961045 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes. indeed. I sometimes forget how time works. < 1343010014 400074 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't going to be very good anyway < 1343010063 204152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean that you should make a good one. < 1343010086 100452 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like effort < 1343010118 341464 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah sounds easy. just quickly replicate all the features of GHC as a one-man project. < 1343010139 381663 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this doesn't involve solving any open problems in mathematics < 1343010139 533072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: every time I think I should try writing a Haskell compiler again I remember edwardk talking about his compiler stuff < 1343010141 873463 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :therfore it is trivial < 1343010145 212726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I give up automatically because how can you compete < 1343010149 453738 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1343010155 600181 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by that logic you should give up on life though < 1343010158 563344 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't spend much time on it < 1343010163 750592 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause edwardk has done everything ;) < 1343010165 528828 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have plenty of time to get ahead < 1343010175 380108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should use "edwardk's compiler stuff"! < 1343010183 242947 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't he release the type checker? < 1343010187 273481 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still really want to see a tracing JIT for Haskell < 1343010192 340427 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. < 1343010219 416105 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants a structural typing extension in haskell.
< 1343010226 349624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I forgot edwardk was in here < 1343010233 253599 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can I talk about anyone behind their back if they are in here!!! < 1343010236 870101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody but kmc, get out < 1343010243 442953 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Better go to #thatotherchannel. < 1343010257 933107 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: likewise. ed yang expressed some interest in it, but he seems to have been distracted < 1343010258 209520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently #thatotherchannel exists < 1343010261 245108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ChanServ is in it < 1343010269 710357 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric-portalchess (is that what I named it?) < 1343010272 351285 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: i too am distracted < 1343010303 296577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distracted by Ireland. < 1343010308 351078 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK now < 1343010309 286365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you're not in Ireland anymore. < 1343010312 311005 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1343010313 537227 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. < 1343010315 97971 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been toying with turbohaskell a bit lately, mostly because i'm currently rewriting our compiler for ermine, and the design is very similar to THC < 1343010316 450147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distracted by Island. < 1343010320 138039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pronounced the same way anyway. < 1343010323 943320 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in Slough (please hold throwing of rotten vegetables until the end) < 1343010330 459965 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so what prompted the globe trotting? < 1343010341 938686 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is on the run for selling drugs at a loss < 1343010346 62912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Globe trotting needs prompting? < 1343010354 636976 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :today i walked around London < 1343010357 291733 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's illegal to sell things for a loss in the US) < 1343010359 866792 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ought to do some globe trotting.
< 1343010363 814839 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rode the Emirates Air Line, not to be confused with the Emirates Airline < 1343010407 422743 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fly emirates < 1343010410 791395 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fly. < 1343010412 27028 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: my friend was putting together a trip to some cool places, and i haven't traveled internationally in too long < 1343010417 613473 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: like a G6? < 1343010431 468846 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1343010433 609645 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair nuff =) < 1343010440 432129 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can rent a private cabin on the Emirates Air Line for £86 < 1343010454 711450 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants a private log cabin.
< 1343010458 997191 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an airplane < 1343010459 523640 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is like a ski lift thing that takes a couple minutes to go over the Thames River) < 1343010466 32954 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it comes with champagne < 1343010490 576925 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd better. < 1343010506 884116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I drink some champagne in a few days when I can legally do it? < 1343010520 161461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't tend to like carbonated things so I probably wouldn't like it. < 1343010521 994503 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't partake in the joy of human aviation without a log cabin and champagne. < 1343010538 806090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: The Emirates Air Line is not an airline. < 1343010551 708098 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: champagne is ok < 1343010552 641960 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's very confusing. < 1343010556 78806 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of boozes are ok < 1343010558 886296 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got confused, like kmc told me no to. < 1343010564 496908 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's the drinking age where you live? < 1343010575 187235 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Air_Line_(cable_car) < 1343010591 738570 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turns 21 in 4 days.
< 1343010613 726044 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats to both of you < 1343010618 417080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: I turn 21 in 3 days! < 1343010619 518747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So hah. < 1343010638 369197 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :feel free to celebrate my birthday by sending me alcohol from your native country (can you even do that?) < 1343010643 581034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I've been able to legally drink for years. < 1343010650 402108 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not in the US. < 1343010654 719713 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1343010659 800076 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :because history. < 1343010663 137622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i know how old shachaf is < 1343010664 568422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke's on him < 1343010666 921195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :-( < 1343010723 194930 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might just use this nick forever. < 1343010753 395015 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't decided. < 1343010762 996864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's spirity < 1343010767 237767 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kallisti
< 1343010767 595773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1343010788 86188 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: use one nick forever < 1343010791 344940 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's just silly < 1343010793 637618 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY EVERYONE, elliott WILL BE 17 IN PRECISELY 1 MONTH < 1343010797 943736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNLESS HE'S LIED TO US < 1343010802 821135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH HE PROBABLY HAS, COME TO THINK OF IT < 1343010811 997788 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT HE SAID HE WAS 16 ON 2011-08-22 < 1343010815 286225 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: also your, elliott's, and my nicks also all have the same length. < 1343010822 938325 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good property for a nick to have. < 1343010837 679766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: calm down… < 1343010854 811064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: What, being the same length as "shachaf"? < 1343010857 569857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good property. < 1343010864 894333 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having the same letters as "shachaf" is also good. < 1343010865 855544 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1343010875 278110 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes conversation better in that context. < 1343010875 620838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I AM CALM < 1343010887 520543 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly having the same length as edwardk's nick or pikhq_'s nick is a good property. < 1343010895 264996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : calmer than you are < 1343010911 311095 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1343010920 733196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "pikhq_" < 1343010921 758149 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1343010928 22537 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is even when shachaf is typing in all caps on the channel i still hear him in my head with his quiet little in-person voice =P < 1343010951 902149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Ugh, you hear that voice? < 1343010956 192130 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :=) < 1343010977 141557 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird to think that elliott is that young < 1343010982 558285 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my mind he's a jaded old man by me < 1343010985 121058 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like me* < 1343010992 845256 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by old man i mean still quite young < 1343011004 82267 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: That voice goes away after I've known someone for a bit. < 1343011010 572729 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should imagine my voice with the sultry baritone of a radio host. < 1343011011 645731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm older than oerjan irl < 1343011014 349429 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair nuff < 1343011017 607927 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would corresponding well with my real voice. < 1343011032 214533 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1343011032 365828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wait, oerjan isn't a jaded old (hu)man? < 1343011044 165464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is 14 (oerjan is actually like 40 or something i think) < 1343011051 93721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be really weird if oerjan was 14 < 1343011056 340797 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1343011189 898976 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :how young is elliott? < 1343011206 288691 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1343011228 97559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Did you know elliott = ehird? < 1343011231 161948 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1343011258 870323 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's weird that you quote me quoting a movie < 1343011263 811075 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that you remember i said that < 1343011329 161969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : self-identifying considered harmful < 1343011337 86130 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1343011374 244025 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/09/27 < 1343011502 927986 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Tcl solution to "I don't like global variables" seems to be namespaces < 1343011503 719405 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1343011514 687127 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespaces are great < 1343011527 834933 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly a substitut for lexical scope though < 1343011528 150781 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :one honking great idea < 1343011533 425734 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pychaf < 1343011547 842632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/pychaf < 1343011613 91373 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Lexical scope is pretty great. < 1343011624 258011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :namespaces suck, also variables suck, also programming sucks < 1343011630 730129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"and this channel sucks!" < 1343011639 570141 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1343011641 490732 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he got us there < 1343011674 766454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotuselliott < 1343011684 485191 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's certainly old and jaded. < 1343011685 821002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :methuselliott < 1343011753 81716 :constant!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love^W the people that say "global variables are bad" so... "I'll just stick them all into one singleton class" < 1343011771 674296 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a Design Pattern! < 1343011846 868484 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unsafePerformIO . newIORef pattern! < 1343011868 84104 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c.c < 1343011873 854605 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I also hate that one. < 1343011885 470526 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc hated it so much he made a library for doing it < 1343011893 892197 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then another library for avoiding it < 1343011901 755169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the another library? < 1343011904 894552 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of library for doing it, and what kind of library for avoiding it? < 1343011906 860286 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By sticking the variable in C? < 1343011919 213139 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/kmcallister/global-lock < 1343011919 853629 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1343011925 160115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1343011929 530280 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the library for doing it? < 1343011936 400092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes. < 1343011942 311985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole thunk blackhole thing. < 1343011954 449993 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a package called "extensible-data" which allow you to define fields wherever you want and it does not require IO < 1343011958 858334 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lost a lot of faith in Haskell as a production language when i learned that this widespread trick has been broken for a long time and nobody even noticed < 1343011968 712508 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That includes define fields in different modules) < 1343011971 616309 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an extremely rare race condition either < 1343011976 440921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Does the problem actually come up in practice? < 1343011978 664199 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1343011988 750796 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it fixed now? < 1343011994 56669 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ran into it in something i was doing < 1343012001 911735 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: yeah < 1343012003 965433 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you think of the "extensible-data"? < 1343012084 653945 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With Data.Extensible.Product, you have something like a record type where the fields are defined anywhere including in any number of other modules which do not need to know each other, and the fields do not even have to be exported by that module if that is the only module using those fields of the record. < 1343012129 841347 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: lexical scoping is great for most variables, but I manage to find uses for dynamic scoping in perl that reduce the amount of code I need to write. < 1343012138 743442 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1343012221 311216 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are default values, and the module which defines the record type also defines what type the default values depend on. (The types of the fields are define in the module defining those fields, though.) < 1343012278 640078 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you familiar with lens-families? < 1343012285 415721 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1343012300 545348 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may or may not write a quasiquoter to completely redesign record syntax so that it automatically uses them. < 1343012308 797569 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun? < 1343012340 924982 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if Tcl's love of global variables in namespaces should be enough to keep me away or not < 1343012379 871426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You know lenses, right? < 1343012384 610935 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know about lenses < 1343012388 405333 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen edwardk's lenses package < 1343012393 237909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1343012402 109459 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a new lenses package which edwardk says is better than the old lenses package. < 1343012410 170023 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least the approach is better < 1343012413 308451 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the package ;) < 1343012422 510040 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Eh, lens packages are throwaway. < 1343012441 990289 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bundled the 12 lines i needed into my physics package directly, so i agree ;) < 1343012470 466532 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about the van laarhoven lens families is that it doesn't matter if you actually use the library, since everything is compatible < 1343012511 492417 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, now I know van Laarhoven lenses < 1343012515 736551 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how easy/difficult it would be to do some sort of lens thing in Tcl < 1343012521 538253 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hpaste < 1343012521 878139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell pastebin: http://hpaste.org/ < 1343012548 614307 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/71982 < 1343012556 102668 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pretty much all you need to use them < 1343012565 355586 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta sleep though < 1343012566 358288 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttyl all < 1343012573 117854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, weird < 1343012576 273226 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1343012576 424522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@localtime kmc < 1343012577 432886 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for kmc is Sun Jul 22 23:03:33 2012 < 1343012578 124236 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1343012585 166070 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: do you have any ideas for record syntax/semantics that would make use of Laarhoven lenses? < 1343012586 892937 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that won't tell me much. < 1343012592 732533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@localtime elliott < 1343012593 361184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for elliott is Mon Jul 23 04:04:49 < 1343012594 391045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1343012597 272208 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: my IRC client is in UTC-4 but i'm in UTC+1 < 1343012605 798378 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: the SORF/DORF issue is largely orthogonal to them, so you can use them with either < 1343012611 90665 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make van Laarhoven lenses from other categories? < 1343012622 658157 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: you do lose multi-field polymorphic update but thats fairly minor < 1343012630 705741 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no intuition for the laws for them there < 1343012630 954422 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott standard time < 1343012631 197154 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: how does lambdabot figure that out? < 1343012641 952900 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:03 lambdabot [~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com] requested CTCP TIME from kmc: < 1343012661 381770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Careful analysis of your activity in the logs. < 1343012680 337291 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just doing: /ctcp kmc time < 1343012685 623416 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, machine learning. < 1343012706 463853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf NOTICE #esoteric :
HI
< 1343012708 815973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1343012708 967157 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in turn is something like /msg kmc ^ACTCP TIME^A < 1343012711 196911 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1343012717 521812 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the ^A is an actual 0x01 character < 1343012721 79405 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(byte?) < 1343012731 534690 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah, byte.) < 1343012745 494663 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :7-bit ascii character, technically. < 1343012745 886355 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :god help you if you set your IRC client to UTF-16 < 1343012749 270148 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which in turn is PRIVMSG :kmc ^ACTCP TIME^A < 1343012753 642517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's still a byte. < 1343012762 94901 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC protocol is specified in bytes. < 1343012765 853631 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1343012773 432328 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but iS CTCP specified in bytes? < 1343012782 49707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1343012783 249235 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly i do not care at the moment < 1343012791 42976 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps tomorrow < 1343012839 141488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accoridng to http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/ctcpspec.html it looks like it's a byte. < 1343012843 604674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular, an octet. < 1343012920 678161 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: oh, hm, DORF is a lot like structural typing. < 1343012969 6572 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can constrain types based on what record fields are accessible. < 1343012972 165559 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing you get out of the new polymorphic lens support is independence from actually caring what the lens library is, because you can compose them with Prelude (.) and id, and build them with the Prelude's Functor class < 1343012979 378884 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1343013009 448057 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Well, you sort of had that with (Control.Category..) and Control.Category.id before. < 1343013027 809744 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did. but now you can compose them with getters, setters, multilenses, partial lenses, etc. directly < 1343013039 567633 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can all be composed < 1343013051 721549 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 :+ 2, 3) ^. fstLens . getting magnitude < 1343013074 153115 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any MPTC magic, etc. < 1343013212 700462 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually kind of liking lenses in this toy physics engine < 1343013217 677526 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo^.x < 1343013263 686345 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things like quadrance (quat^.ijk) < 1343013302 850390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: If ddarius moves out here, you'll have to admit that the west coast is the place to be. < 1343013308 786990 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1343013357 52086 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the east coast still has one thing going for it… i have employment over here ;) < 1343013569 52283 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: oh nevermind. if I'm understanding correctly SORF without the proxy type (using only the String kinded field name parameter) would act like structural typing, but DORF uses a proxy type that obeys module scoping rules. < 1343013718 680971 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's better overall. It lets you hide fields. < 1343014686 496376 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT : < 1343014772 466022 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1343015495 713237 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1343015501 727196 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lied you guys are great < 1343015513 278898 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe them, but not me < 1343015522 548618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE REAL ELLIOTT < 1343015524 465984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: I remember you complaining about van Larravhrvoheorvn lens performance -- are the lens families better or do you just not care any more? :) < 1343015528 311355 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was lying < 1343015535 727333 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i was wrong about their performance < 1343015537 359827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...okay < 1343015556 285296 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :they turned out to have the same performance advantages as the store ones i liked < 1343015562 486370 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1343015572 47203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like the lens families because their type signatures are so complex. :( < 1343015591 575340 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like the signatures used by 'lens-families' per se < 1343015594 680350 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like lens families < 1343015609 298002 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the haskell 98 version i think is misguided < 1343015613 278162 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the types are unreadable < 1343015633 137065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still four parameters (IIRC?) rather than two with the unportable one, right? < 1343015637 130280 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: am i gr8 < 1343015642 951016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1343015653 40425 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, only if you need polymorphism, keep in mind, you can write a conventional lens and compose it with them < 1343015654 603461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I'm with you! < 1343015677 222065 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Lens a b = forall f. Functor f => (b -> f b) -> a -> f a -- and you're done < 1343015688 738712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1343015697 255626 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have lots of those mixed and matched with lens families < 1343015700 424073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But nobody is going to do that, because why would you define a less general form when you can just use the full thing? < 1343015702 133046 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they all compose < 1343015709 590302 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, when i have something like < 1343015719 536891 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :real :: Lens (Complex a) a < 1343015725 760945 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a Lens, not a LensFamily < 1343015731 187682 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use the less general signature < 1343015732 674760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1343015738 545256 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have lots of those < 1343015739 659197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is dubious of the advantages of composing setters and getters, personally, but polymorphic update *is* nice.
< 1343015752 568402 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the modifiers are really handy < 1343015765 627548 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these compose with multilenses and partial lenses as well < 1343015771 551533 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it make if the Functor constraint is replaced with a different class? < 1343015789 402621 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: with Pointed you get partial lenses, with Applicative you get 'multilenses' < 1343015830 472682 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm less fond of those two abstractions personally < 1343015836 795312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: type LensFamily cls a b c d = forall f. cls f => (c -> f d) -> a -> f b < 1343015837 968165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"perfect" < 1343015844 916678 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1343015855 681347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody tell /r/haskell or they'll rewrite Prelude to use that < 1343015873 406034 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Family p a b c d = forall f. p f => (c -> f d) -> a -> f b is how i'd probably write it < 1343015893 657973 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably call it "Thing" instead < 1343015897 535695 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Yes of course usually you just want to have Functor there but nevertheless it can be made with others too < 1343015907 554631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what happens for cls = Comonad. < 1343015932 669665 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the thing that are more specific than Functor are when you start getting funny interactions with the lens laws < 1343015952 610962 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was thinking something similar. I do not know if it can do anything special with duplicate and extract in this case < 1343015954 234198 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :er things < 1343015959 784890 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :riht < 1343015961 81479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1343015975 603376 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose an Apply gets you a non-empty multilens < 1343016030 240547 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Yes, well, I can see things of that type will not always be a proper lens, but is it possible to define lens laws working with another class? < 1343016031 103346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: btw, is the original Functor construction actually van Laarhoven's? I associate "van Laarhoven lenses" with exists r. a <-> (b,r) < 1343016069 153556 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: twan defined the functor based ones, but he decided he preferred the isomorphism lenses < 1343016073 205965 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what happen even if the class does not have Functor as a superclass? < 1343016095 788870 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: without Functor as a superclass you'd be hard pressed to comply with the lens laws ;) < 1343016121 582727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the isomorphism ones. But they seem to be fairly useless in that you end up just making Store-based lenses and converting them to that type. < 1343016121 733994 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: OK < 1343016136 755816 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the isomorphism ones are nice for expository purposes, but they are too much of a bitch to use < 1343016148 172683 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you use Contravariant?!?!?!?!??!?!?! < 1343016157 810009 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: go knock yourself out ;) < 1343016158 204747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you use... Eq1 < 1343016215 270037 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the isomorphism ones? < 1343016264 356652 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Lens a b = forall c. Lens (Iso a (b, c)) < 1343016282 345465 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1343016301 154025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Eq1? < 1343016304 579170 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to physics code
< 1343016308 230627 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :its one of my classes < 1343016310 709748 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :in prelude-extras < 1343016313 208570 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hpysics! < 1343016318 639945 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :see its use in the examples in bound < 1343016320 413760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1343016325 509880 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cophysics < 1343016330 56996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose then it is a proper lens if it is isomorphism < 1343016354 856436 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: not using hypsics, writing part of a rigid body physics solver that lets me work purely functionally over the world state < 1343016368 661111 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1343016388 160609 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have anything for ephemeris with Haskell? < 1343016390 293861 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/prelude-extras/0.1/doc/html/Prelude-Extras.html < 1343016395 965381 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that says "Documentation". < 1343016401 722252 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in clojure? < 1343016422 548712 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be obvious =P < 1343016436 920495 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eq1 is a higher rank version of Eq < 1343016447 771656 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, you have Prelude.Extras and I have Prelude.Generalize < 1343016448 968873 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly Show1 and Read1, etc. < 1343016454 114523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Are # suffices really Haskell 98? < 1343016465 87434 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah on operators they are < 1343016496 838457 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extension just allows them to apply to normal identifiers and (# #)'s < 1343016505 447038 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are otherwise a valid operator char < 1343016521 817925 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (#) = (+) in 1 # 2 < 1343016523 106150 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `)' < 1343016526 724715 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1343016536 138254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Prelude.Extras compatible with Prelude.Generalize? < 1343016546 492427 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let ( # ) = (+) in 1 # 2 < 1343016547 957784 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1343016553 673948 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what Prelude.Generalize is =P < 1343016562 550481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of zzo38's exciting packages < 1343016585 328812 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem like there is any reason for a conflict < 1343016595 442184 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you use Eq and Ord like the Prelude does < 1343016611 160569 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: It make many things generalize such as filter for MonadPlus and tail for MonadLogic. < 1343016624 183047 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Have you seen extensible-data? < 1343016638 401239 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude.Extras just defines higher rank versions of Eq, etc. syb-extras defines Data1 to go with Typeable1, etc. < 1343016647 345479 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not off hand < 1343016654 115445 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And things such as maybeToList and listToMaybe are instead use convList from any Foldable to any Alternative < 1343016654 398428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor you. < 1343016666 947295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: You know more notation? < 1343016667 98942 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of everyone writing an incompatible Prelude replacement, how about we implement an incompatible Prelude replacement generator to get any number of them easily? < 1343016673 399589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :extensible-data is more notation: the package! < 1343016674 680200 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have very little visual feedback in irssi over mosh. < 1343016701 428742 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :once my message exceeds the input buffer width it starts to slow down, because mosh won't attempt to predict anything with control sequences being sent. < 1343016703 854911 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hackage extensible-data < 1343016704 6090 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/package/extensible-data < 1343016708 308383 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but --predict=experimental is too... experimental. < 1343016711 113066 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that strikes me as a remarkably bad idea =) < 1343016726 585140 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I type too fast for the internet. < 1343016746 995516 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does --predict=experimental mean? < 1343016765 670186 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "always attempt to predict local echo regardless of any control sequences that you receive" < 1343016774 427552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: more notation is a package now? < 1343016784 113269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's more notation, but with less notation. < 1343016785 506332 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when I resize my window (which happens often in xmonad) my echo will be halfway in the output buffer, for a few seconds. < 1343016787 780364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1343016809 423277 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@batsnuk < 1343016809 840137 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1343016812 615507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnek < 1343016813 115341 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1343016828 454535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you think about extensible-data package? < 1343016857 485487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hear notation see notation do notation < 1343016898 842116 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :--predict=always seems to work pretty well, until my message exceeds the input buffer width (which happens often in xmonad) < 1343016908 28944 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my server just has really bad bandwidth.. < 1343016945 466461 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION talks more about stuff that no one else cares about.
< 1343016968 782440 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: I read it anyways. < 1343017017 473414 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful. < 1343017026 659870 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, i use mosh with success. I assumed you have a sucky 3G link clientside, but the issue being on the server sounds very strange. < 1343017054 903210 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more likely my terrible ISP. < 1343017065 218047 :kallisti_!~eris@h174.10.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343017078 468003 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti_: hi < 1343017188 630048 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :my average download rate is something like 3 mbps < 1343017206 769614 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a home wireless connection < 1343017236 781289 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1343017284 758064 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity and kallisti_ both has same username and also both has same realname? < 1343017294 722384 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange coincidence. < 1343017303 226992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUN DUN DUN < 1343017304 338200 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hostname differs. < 1343017329 983606 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might seem as though kallisti copied his irssi config onto his server and is using that, but don't be fooled. < 1343017334 112331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no doubt about it. they must be - LONG LOST EVIL TWINS < 1343017350 338975 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timezone differs. < 1343017363 344560 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm in UTC < 1343017365 263837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, both are evil. you've got a problem with that?) < 1343017369 181678 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kallisti is in EST, therefore we are different people. < 1343017403 422426 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually does IRC use my IPs location or does it pull from locale settings?) < 1343017412 261875 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP location would probably be in CEST or something. < 1343017424 985999 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :timezone settings on the local machine are UTC. < 1343017428 578323 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it decides timezone by the system timezone setting isn't it? < 1343017436 754507 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TZ variable with a fallback to /etc/timezone or something like that. < 1343017462 147561 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1343017494 66804 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mosh suddenly got much better at echo, with no appreciable difference in clientside latency. < 1343017506 310459 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly internet. < 1343017660 741347 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if any exist MML for Csound? The numeric score format would seem difficult to write music. < 1343017790 486387 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1343017795 470601 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used csound much < 1343017924 706349 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also haven't used csound much, but I have done a little bit. < 1343018010 71944 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in the process of writing a MML for Impulse Tracker, and you can view the git repository if you want to. < 1343018090 270426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Impulse Tracker is DOS program, ModPlug Tracker is Windows program, ITMCK should work in any operating system supporting GNU C compiler.) < 1343018213 721370 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should include a command #MEGAZEUX in a later version of ITMCK, which makes the syntax closer to MegaZeux's PLAY command. Impulse Tracker format is one of the formats that MegaZeux can play, so if someone want to write a background music for MegaZeux they may prefer to use the same syntax as sound effects do. < 1343018252 977337 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know the purpose of a value attribute for a submit input in an HTML form? < 1343018265 937609 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: To display the text, I think? < 1343018278 279689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also sent to the server if that submit button is selected. < 1343018279 165875 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was the inner text node's job. < 1343018308 791839 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you don't specify a name for the submit button then nothing is sent in the POST request? < 1343018317 256162 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be the behavior I want. < 1343018335 524229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: If no name is set, then the other fields are still sent but the submit button value is not sent. < 1343018342 648279 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343018345 377223 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :good good. < 1343018355 868139 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no idea why you'd want to send a name=value pair for the submit button.
< 1343018365 805023 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you set a name of the submit button, then the name and value of the submit button selected will be sent together with other form fields, but not other submit buttons. < 1343018379 163426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Probably so that you can know which submit button is selected if there is more than one. < 1343018384 404141 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1343018389 7632 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good point. < 1343018395 349381 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically only see one submit button. < 1343018398 844860 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't consider multiple. < 1343018600 226506 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you read what I have recorded the Dungeons&Dragons game I was playing? < 1343018629 743513 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say I have. I've been busy procrastinating my actual work. < 1343018631 89492 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual. < 1343018681 103316 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a character background story too, by now. My character was in a slavery and then escaped when the game starts < 1343018709 916399 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to find a good IRC channel for tabletop roleplaying, but I don't know where I'd find one. < 1343018730 972075 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be very easy to manage character sheets via an IRC bot, perhaps with a web interface. < 1343018773 995911 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to implement this with the WoD system, but I'm unfamiliar with other tabletop systems. < 1343018781 595765 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know what's required to make the interface easy to use in those systems. < 1343018796 381803 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like to use it with a web interface < 1343018807 447745 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a convenience, integrated into the IRC bot. < 1343018818 808057 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone likes command line interfaces. < 1343018827 181874 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is better if you need not open up the web browser and IRC at the same time < 1343018846 392389 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there shouldn't be a need, it's simply a graphical interface for people who like those things. < 1343018853 206323 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1343018862 827953 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I can't imagine what writing a background story would look like via IRC. < 1343018872 681005 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need some kind of editor I feel. < 1343018879 951151 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Write text, sprunge, and paste. < 1343018881 242651 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a simple text file upload mechanism. < 1343018883 24645 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1343018923 983658 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Such as sprunge, for example. Sprunge can be used without any web browser, it is mainly used by the command-line interface, although you can use a web browser too if you prefer. < 1343018930 503293 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm aware of it. < 1343018932 32146 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it myself. < 1343019012 415350 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat file | sprunge | xclip < 1343019013 927495 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For RPG playing IRC I may prefer something like the "play-by-mail" system, but much faster, and you can use common text-adventure-games abbreviations such as I, X, L, N, S, E, and W. < 1343019022 235839 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I used a proper script instead of an alias I could have it support command line arguments as well as stdin. < 1343019030 251336 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@184-97-228-13.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1343019033 191439 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Yes, like that. < 1343019056 68427 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with I and X < 1343019066 540266 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm mostly familiar with MUD idioms. < 1343019101 248425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a proper script for sprunge on Windows, to send a file you receive from stdin (although you can use < redirection too), to receive a file you use the command-line parameter giving the code (four letters) and then it go to stdout. < 1343019108 36710 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: I = inventory, X = examine < 1343019120 903882 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also Z = wait < 1343019134 919719 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right I'm familiar with i < 1343019145 876821 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't really considering implementing a full text adventure style game < 1343019158 206444 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking more free-form style RP. < 1343019181 338767 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make a room, bot joins the room, you can roll via dice commands that are integrated into the character sheet system. < 1343019182 438903 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Yes it is free-form style including what I meant, simply these abbreviations would be understood by the game master manually. < 1343019198 157753 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no bots, referee rolls all the dice, same as play-by-mail. < 1343019214 659015 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the gamemaster? why not just use... english, to communicate movements. < 1343019215 78576 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But unlike play-by-mail it is possible to ask if you want to deliberately fail any saving throw. < 1343019235 573774 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: You can use English too, whatever text you want, but you can also use abbreviations if you commonly use it < 1343019235 780841 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your favorite natural language of choice. < 1343019298 221937 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the bot would exist to facillitate dice rolling. it would be very similar to a traditional tabletop game but with all the math done for you. < 1343019307 590637 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1343019315 886665 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just specify the roll via character attributes < 1343019320 475301 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can use numbers if you want < 1343019321 694630 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: I understand; some IRC servers also have a GS command to do dice rolling and math. < 1343019327 189566 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@reimuhakurei.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343019327 662273 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@reimuhakurei.net QUIT :Changing host < 1343019327 813641 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1343019327 813779 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However I was using the play-by-mail system. < 1343019343 656424 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, like play-by-mail, but much faster if it is IRC.) < 1343019354 652253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can combine IRC with normal play-by-mail too.) < 1343019356 633725 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not only that but it would allow you to specify attributes of players without knowing what they are. This way you could effectively play gamemaster-less games. < 1343019368 750295 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nick.dexterity + nick.firearms diff 7 < 1343019373 586677 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, using WOD nomenclature. < 1343019412 502205 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen my Dungeons&Dragons recordings? < 1343019419 831302 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can initiate rolls without any knowledge of the players attributes (though you could probably guess if they're bad or good based on the results) < 1343019434 293072 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I believe you already asked that, and I already answered that I haven't. < 1343019471 795465 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then look. < 1343019485 251849 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also thinking you could set up a permission system, which allows individual players to set up ho they want their attributes to be usable by other players < 1343019492 692370 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this allows you to give permission to designated gamemaster, or to anyone in your game < 1343019504 571161 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prevents other players from guessing your attributes via repeated dice rolls. < 1343019515 922952 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is one way. < 1343019522 214696 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that you can eliminate the need for gamemaster while still having security features. < 1343019537 945956 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also my bot checks registration with network services, so that you can't use nick changees to exploit this system. < 1343019569 57744 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of role-playing-game won't work so well without gamemaster, I think. If you do have gamemaster, you need no bot, no registration, because you can use play-by-mail system. < 1343019583 750574 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played roleplaying games without a gamemaster using a similar dicerolling system, and it works very well. < 1343019590 7145 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it requires good players. < 1343019596 961262 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can create a story without someone guiding it. < 1343019600 531891 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would require good players I think. < 1343019607 903721 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also requires that you have some sort of player antagonist. < 1343019613 465118 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it interesting < 1343019620 600078 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there needs to be some challenge that isn't contrived. < 1343019625 348105 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I prefer the play-by-mail system (where the referee (= gamemaster) rolls all the dice) < 1343019638 965813 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice. the drawback of this kind of system is that most of the rolls are public. < 1343019644 481694 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :secret rolls have their place. < 1343019680 925407 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes play-by-mail (fast or slow) would have all rolls secret. Player can still roll a dice if they want to decide their action at random, but that is all. < 1343019714 674004 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there would be a way to do secret rolls, provided you're playing with a gamemaster < 1343019722 735927 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :really the idea is to make the system completely flexible so that your group can play however you want. < 1343019732 777754 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1343019752 491041 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there could be a "secret roll" command, which privmsgs the roller. This allows the roll to be publically announced, but the result unknown. < 1343019761 863693 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that players know a roll was actually made. < 1343019803 802952 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, whatever you prefer. < 1343019838 236599 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also with a simple lambdabot-like messaging system it would be pretty easy to emulate play-by-email. < 1343019840 491472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made up some of "Icosahedral RPG" system which is my own ruleset. It has many things differently from other systems. For example, multimanas form a ring and there is a partial ordering on them, etc < 1343019863 256232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: It does not have to be email, it can be normal mail too. < 1343019880 999799 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: would you be interested in implementing the ruleset within my bot, once I have a sensible system for it? < 1343019903 787969 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: I don't know. < 1343019907 875316 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't decided on a design that's general enough to accomodate many systems < 1343019911 299002 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bot itself would be perl though. < 1343019917 384938 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I already have a lot of nice code I can reuse < 1343019925 810013 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :including a sandbox similar to HackEgo's < 1343019941 806761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, since it isn't Haskell it might not do some of the things in Icosahedral RPG < 1343019963 348389 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I wanted to make a Haskell bot but at this point the perl bot has a lot of features that I don't really feel like re-implementing < 1343019973 790017 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ability to do sane concurrency would be a plus, if I were to port everything to a Haskell bot. < 1343019987 916896 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You don't need Haskell to play this game, you can play just as well without a computer, but the game uses a lot of mathematical structures, and Haskell can do mathematical structures.) < 1343020003 869810 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure perl can do mathematical structures too < 1343020006 139959 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not as cleanly < 1343020013 561164 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Yes, I believe you. < 1343020036 743443 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you think about dogless? < 1343020043 863242 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got some incoming changes to how it works. < 1343020051 710057 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Describe. < 1343020067 310293 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's the dupdog-based language I described earlier. < 1343020075 959181 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can paste the interpreter code again if you'd like. < 1343020082 221477 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: O, yes, I have looked at it. But I forget. < 1343020084 755806 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll need to write up a spec eventually. < 1343020095 420246 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was thinking of changing the way the > and < commands work < 1343020098 177724 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should write up the spec < 1343020106 74790 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they work on arbitrary commands rather than just the substition commands < 1343020120 753806 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a command without < or > signifies a change to the entire source string < 1343020131 817864 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < and > limit the change to the "left side" or the "right side" of the ] marker. < 1343020143 825887 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so rouge like <-- rogue* < 1343023311 181407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an (exceedingly well-designed and exceptionally pretty) normal single-player roguelike < 1343023322 73316 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchornize what, then. < 1343023329 111593 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I always confuse those two words < 1343023384 100090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Vorpal: and the thing I am considering writing is a streaming/spectating patch for brogue < 1343023388 643682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pay attention < 1343023402 113390 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I did. I meant, more specifically, what are you synchronizing about it. < 1343023457 24160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the display of the screen < 1343023471 362588 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :Trey < 1343023474 437498 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it not already instantaneous? < 1343023476 828125 :Trey!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1343023489 582159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is ambiguous about "spectating" < 1343023495 616187 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :Trey < 1343023498 633172 :Trey!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1343023538 988059 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the unmentioned details related to games I know very little about. < 1343023546 780674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1343023554 916993 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't answer that question. < 1343023565 30538 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can't you just broadcast the stream of tty data? < 1343023576 313536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it redraw partially only < 1343023596 383907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't terminal-based (well, it has a terminal backend, but it's ugly as heck because 16 colours) < 1343023603 185236 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1343023618 41975 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I just don't see what needs to be spectated or synchronized in a game that isn't networked and probably updates nearly instantaneously with events in the game world. < 1343023619 733838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it displays its own (full-colour) pseudo-terminal < 1343023630 368411 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: the point is to add a feature whereby other people can spectate a game < 1343023641 599522 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. okay. < 1343023646 713274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1343023677 966619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, see, if you just explain things like that we don't need to have this sort of confusion :) < 1343023687 702110 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the computer game I make? < 1343023689 265648 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you could most likely rig that up with existing software, but it wouldn't be as free of latency. < 1343023708 857365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, see, if you just explain things like that we don't need to have this sort of confusion :) < 1343023714 733647 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1343023717 616252 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :just livestream via an existing website (I know twitch.tv is one site that supports video game streaming) and a screencapture program. < 1343023721 935321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to respond to this but < 1343023723 950146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im w/ monqy < 1343023724 222051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1343023729 465815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1343023737 447517 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, it will look ugly < 1343023769 371721 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely. unless you have an epic computer to do awesome live video encoding. < 1343023776 349266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I watch streams on twitch.tv occasionally. I can never get it to work properly above 480p. Yet I can watch youtube at 1080p. And in both cases it will look compressed < 1343023804 952453 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1343023811 86666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, anyway, doing live video encoding isn't that hard on a modern computer < 1343023830 317774 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet mine could do it, though maybe not with ultra graphics settings for some games < 1343023858 484861 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watch streams from professional starcraft casters. They have monster computers. < 1343023863 768674 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the video quality is usually pretty good. < 1343023870 533444 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In one game, you have to save the gibbering mouthers from the king's army by holding the second key (as in the key to open the door) as you hold a pencil. < 1343023901 10188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I'm not really interested in Starcraft, I mostly watched other stuff. Like Magicka or what not < 1343023914 288503 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :magicka? is it like.. competitive PvP? < 1343023930 143111 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, iirc it was coop between TotalBiscuit and Yogscast or something like that < 1343023931 481474 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably something I could get into. though last time I played Magicka they patched it so that my usual tricks didn't work as well anymore. < 1343023938 329816 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: oh I've seen that. < 1343023942 117070 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :um Vorpal: ^ < 1343023945 24640 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was hilarious < 1343023956 627873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking to yourself eh < 1343023963 1174 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've had this conversation before, but I get pretty competitive with those kinds of games. < 1343023970 344730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay < 1343023984 681749 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a competitive player. I play games for other reasons < 1343023984 866535 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be a light hearted game but the combat system is actually really complex. < 1343023988 44061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like story telling. < 1343024003 601533 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magicka is stellar both in terms of storytelling and gameplay. < 1343024011 301825 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's likeable for both of those reasons. < 1343024014 941470 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, it is certainly a funny game < 1343024025 811548 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the Swedish-English-made-up-whatever voice acting in it < 1343024032 596548 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the same time the magic system is /good/ < 1343024040 171550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a Swede myself it is extra funny < 1343024048 602885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I suck at Magicka < 1343024056 868351 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is apparently pretty good at it.
< 1343024058 113589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a slower paced game. < 1343024066 837296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't cast spells quick enough < 1343024074 635253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In one game you have to move the white ball to stop colliding with color ball, you have to make a rectangle of four corner tiles the same color as the ball to remove them from the screen. < 1343024080 439500 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have some decent spells commited to muscle memory it's just a matter of thinking in terms of those spells, rather than the individual buttons < 1343024083 450924 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can improvise as well. < 1343024127 222706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, my favourite game of all time is Witcher 2. What a great story that game has. I never watched Game of Thrones, but from what I heard from other people, the political intrigue part of the Witcher 2 story reminds them of that < 1343024130 356101 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :one problem the game has is that the input system annoyingly messes up if you start typing too fast. maybe it's intentional to make mindless spamming unviable. < 1343024153 614682 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also makse having quick reaction times unviable as well. :( < 1343024169 553551 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Deus Ex: Human Revolution is great too btw. I have been meaning to buy the original Deus Ex and have a go at it, from what I heard that has even better story < 1343024211 994874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I think Magicka + AutoHotKey could be an amazing way to play it for the type of gamer that I am < 1343024213 191230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1343024218 762300 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1343024230 723379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :look, I'm not good at quick reaction stuff. < 1343024230 874771 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even consider that a possibility. < 1343024239 295108 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm sad. < 1343024246 73374 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :people on PvP probably just cheat and do stuff like that. < 1343024250 372785 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343024252 293531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1343024260 259992 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd like to think that the list of possible useful spells far exceeds the number of buttons on the keyboard. < 1343024263 869607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would only use that for the campaign if I did that < 1343024274 411581 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I bet that's what why fast inputs are rejected < 1343024280 886476 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid autohotkey cheating. < 1343024285 555007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can insert delays into autohotkey iirc < 1343024296 7861 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it balanced the playing field a bit, then. < 1343024312 654546 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no instant cast 5-element spells. < 1343024315 458989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1343024317 716571 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I do not want to learn autohotkey, the language doesn't exactly look nice < 1343024340 733699 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not nice by any tangible metric. < 1343024372 30829 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in magicka I always mix up the cast type. self,area,normal,whatever < 1343024377 154613 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the new stuff they added to magicka feels cheap < 1343024381 206556 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the new rock shield. < 1343024383 382702 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also remembering the spells is hard < 1343024393 108136 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, hm, does "crash to desktop" work in PvP? < 1343024404 805074 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I haven't played the game since PvP was added. < 1343024408 303253 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343024433 87961 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played it when the strongest spell in the game didn't one-shot you if you didn't use immunity shields. < 1343024451 37293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, anyway I mostly play RPGs. I'm decent at stealth action games too, like Deus Ex: Human Revolution. < 1343024463 348789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is a stealth/action/RPG hybrid) < 1343024465 62435 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play whatever games other people around me with consoles/gaming PCs play. < 1343024468 317404 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with FPS elements) < 1343024487 538392 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from minecraft and flightsims I mostly go for single player < 1343024497 223872 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prefers multiplayer typically.
< 1343024502 676698 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and space sims. They are awesome < 1343024506 233545 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as a rule. < 1343024511 370102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Evochron Mercenary < 1343024599 65356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, do you like games like that? < 1343024605 242855 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't played many. < 1343024615 984696 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't own any consoles or a gaming PC atm < 1343024627 49650 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well oolite should run on pretty much anything < 1343024632 643008 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is open source < 1343024633 74507 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :one game I'm looking forward to is planetside 2. < 1343024644 193390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably want a proper joystick though < 1343024656 572719 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a new smash bros game is being developed. I love that series. < 1343024664 680537 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, ah yes, I signed up for the beta, thinking "why not, it is F2P, might give it a try" < 1343024673 623602 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is one of the "no items final destination" people. :P
< 1343024675 796482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't gotten a beta key yet < 1343024685 879543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1343024686 832666 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :* spirity is one of the "no items final destination" people. :P <-- huh? < 1343024691 452067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1343024696 428812 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you played smash bros? < 1343024699 291284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1343024703 121924 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. okay. well then nevermind < 1343024703 835781 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never owned a console < 1343024706 804337 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :final destination is the map that's just like... < 1343024708 857746 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a platform < 1343024711 72691 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a big floating platform < 1343024714 64180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played some snes and n64 games in emulators < 1343024722 809502 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "no items" means that you turn all the items off. < 1343024726 341454 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no random chance involved. < 1343024747 711178 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrono trigger, FF IV, Secret of Mana, Zelda ALTP, OOT, WW and so on. (the last one being gamecube) < 1343024758 562436 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, right < 1343024782 37631 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also typically how tournaments are played. < 1343024787 834446 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, hey if you ever get a PS3, play dark souls XD < 1343024804 933352 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played probably the first 25% of Demons' souls. < 1343024819 697117 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also nethack is an amazing game, haven't played it for ages though. I /used/ to be pretty good at it. < 1343024829 414266 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I overleveled in the first part until I could reasonably complete that part of the game. < 1343024829 898162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not so good any more < 1343024844 911081 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, heh < 1343024855 462363 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the meatcleaver build thing. < 1343024869 407002 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :meatcleaver and faith < 1343024880 79421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue what that is < 1343024906 158123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I doubt I will get a console in the foreseeable future. I prefer gaming on a PC. < 1343024907 681071 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :meatcleaver is just a unique sword you can get. it actually counts as a "big club" type weapon. < 1343024950 60643 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first section (act? chapter? I don't remember) I would just time my swing so that I one-shot most things as they approached. < 1343024970 622497 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was so overleveled < 1343024973 252125 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, having to time combat :/ < 1343024982 716028 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why I suck at Batman: Arkham City < 1343024985 230921 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like... what demons' souls /is/ < 1343024991 817840 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343024996 62895 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Batman: Arkham City almost times combat for you. < 1343025001 83216 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1343025008 354417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to time to get any combos < 1343025017 195352 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's incredibly easy to never get hit and rack up absurd combos. < 1343025021 730004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1343025026 232139 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it is really hard < 1343025034 540948 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just suck at timing < 1343025036 59239 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never played the story mode though. just the challenge mode. < 1343025039 411115 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it was just pure brawling. < 1343025046 9039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... why would you not play story mode? < 1343025054 475793 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that less interesting than challenges? < 1343025060 315276 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the stealth missions from that mode were fun. < 1343025062 383445 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1343025077 393297 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't own the game. I didn't have time to commit to story mode. also from what I could see the voice acting was kind of mediocre. < 1343025080 455089 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the story is really good, that is the only reason I completed that game < 1343025081 475474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343025083 934282 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't really engage me. < 1343025092 170102 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, it was okay < 1343025092 351415 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I only saw pieces of it. < 1343025094 633470 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :from other people playing. < 1343025101 33343 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the ending is stupid. < 1343025111 884084 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic big monster boss fight, for no reason. < 1343025113 444287 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very sensitive to voice acting personally < 1343025118 696529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is really bad < 1343025137 928045 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I'm thinking of arkham asylum < 1343025146 652461 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think you are confusing them < 1343025159 644011 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely played the challenge mode from arkham city < 1343025160 764175 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played arkham asylum though < 1343025169 579440 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prbably saw more of the story from arkham asylum. < 1343025177 213285 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never even looked at the challenges in arkham city < 1343025204 808874 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great. the first time I picked it up I got a 50x combo. :D < 1343025231 773851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with windows 7 and lowering the volume of vlc when you plug or unplug USB devices... < 1343025232 283314 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the timing is not very sensitive at all. you can more or less spam buttons to get it to time itself for you. < 1343025233 212282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1343025261 124566 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I played on medium, maybe you played on easy or something? < 1343025268 546126 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1343025271 728631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you are really good at that sort of combat < 1343025300 215446 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really good at smash bros, so it probably carries over into brawler type games. < 1343025304 485730 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1343025329 839603 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried playing a story driven RPG btw? < 1343025352 11848 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mass Effect perhaps? < 1343025364 894718 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played a few when I was younger, and still had video game systems. I don't remember much about them now though. < 1343025371 902362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343025375 715515 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :metroid prime was a good game. < 1343025377 622725 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :very immersive. < 1343025385 587041 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, which platform was that for? < 1343025388 211427 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gamecube < 1343025390 717171 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343025392 865786 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also sequels for the wii. < 1343025399 786517 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was a nintendo kid, mostly.
< 1343025420 247339 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played some snes meteroid game in an emulator, didn't really like it. Too much backtracking. < 1343025441 159913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I grew up on classic mac OS... < 1343025449 37507 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played the n64 and gamecube zelda games if hat counts < 1343025467 390124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I remember games like EV Override (2D top-down space shooter, open world, and story driven) < 1343025470 58398 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :though zelda is more like a platformer puzzle game than an RPG. < 1343025487 405675 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Avernum 1/2/3 (one of the best adventure/RPG games ever) < 1343025498 478090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :game series* < 1343025511 976167 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also < 1343025514 598321 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabletop RPGs < 1343025515 961761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, zelda oot is really good yes < 1343025517 58133 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play those. < 1343025523 76402 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably as close to "story-driven RPG" as you can get. < 1343025524 437272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm never had a chance to play any such < 1343025529 305176 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :GURPS? D&D? < 1343025535 602300 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played a lot of WoD. < 1343025538 373906 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(World of Darkness) < 1343025541 223852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1343025545 472961 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :on MUDs, actually. I've never played in person. < 1343025556 334769 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you must be a few years older than me < 1343025559 731286 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was free-form style. you just communicated via text. < 1343025566 869547 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I doubt it. < 1343025567 20919 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, good games are: super mario world, super street fighter 2, secret of mana, final fantasy 6, romance of three kingdoms (on snes not sure which version), uh i dunno mang < 1343025574 981956 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION turns 21 in 3 days.
< 1343025576 702162 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :secret of mana is good yes < 1343025586 376074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, so you are younger than me? Huh < 1343025588 829722 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i played secret of mana 2 player < 1343025599 225082 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. MUDs still existed in the late 90s and early 2000s. < 1343025603 31943 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not as popular. < 1343025613 871061 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how I found them. < 1343025619 419464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :secret of mana has a better combat system than chrono trigger but chrono trigger has a better story than secret of mana < 1343025621 262925 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of sad < 1343025634 720792 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started out with hack-n-slash style games, then I found free-form RP style games (similar to MOO and MUSH, but with a stripped down MUD-based interface) < 1343025653 326232 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343025659 755517 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@119.146.220.27 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343025681 303536 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually I started coding for one. So I have some experience with designing freeform text-based pen and paper interfaces. < 1343025692 967992 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a funny thing to say. < 1343025697 788996 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest i kind of tried to compile a list of games i like or find interesting, but it eventually generalized too far so that {x:x is a video game} = {x:x is interesting} < 1343025709 716315 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1343025718 93578 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: so you're saying you have no standards. < 1343025719 505547 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :-D < 1343025737 148217 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw i don't know math well.. im just trying out set construction < 1343025737 899332 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm very much interested in setting up a IRC-based tabletop gaming system. I was talking to zzo38 about it previously. < 1343025743 157256 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any game that didn't have an interesting story ever managed to get me interested for more than a brief time period of time < 1343025745 394251 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you're interested we could possibly try that out. < 1343025752 424980 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, hey what about Mirror's Edge? < 1343025763 598336 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't layed. < 1343025766 126529 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*played < 1343025773 651333 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like video games < 1343025775 634411 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but haven't played many. < 1343025777 662658 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :any assasin's creed game though? < 1343025785 44071 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I've played the first 2. < 1343025794 410749 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :very good games. < 1343025801 417922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might like Mirror's Edge. It is quite hard. < 1343025816 955731 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some new game that ubisoft unveiled at E3 that's based off of that engine. it looks ridiculously cool. < 1343025823 901873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? which one? < 1343025828 269237 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the name < 1343025835 552152 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1343025843 719493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, or do you mean Dishonoured? It had some parkour iirc. Bethesda though < 1343025845 710237 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically you have access to electronic devices around you, and like.. public records of people. < 1343025850 944291 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that. Right < 1343025851 832947 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1343025855 796161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it had parkour? < 1343025861 695660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did it? < 1343025873 863920 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but I could see from the alpha footage that it had a similar control interface. < 1343025878 28387 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1343025878 613321 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might. < 1343025886 297021 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar control interface? what do you mean? < 1343025889 102836 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not really sure how to describe what I mean. < 1343025901 36358 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you had an inventory that seemed to work similarly to the AC interface. < 1343025910 388064 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343025910 539168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like text adventure game < 1343025911 556139 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :with labelled buttons at the bottom. < 1343025911 707672 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1343025913 799253 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an abstracted subset of reality can be embedded within virtual reality. should it be called a reality manifold? <-- i know it's silly < 1343025920 171187 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :describing what action each button does. < 1343025929 500073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I know which game you mean, but it reminded me more of Deus Ex: HR. < 1343025938 434331 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's the same third-person style. I'd imagine it's a heavily derived version of that engine. < 1343025939 50047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it came to the setting and so on < 1343025956 70976 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you'll be walking through urban areas. I see no reason for them to re-invent their crowd simulation stuff. < 1343025983 308739 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, well you didn't have to think about car traffic in the AC setting < 1343025988 634535 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343025989 913572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to handle that differently at least < 1343025994 395791 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think nobody play chess by mail anymore? < 1343026001 878002 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed derived in a very vague sense. < 1343026003 486352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have played chess by (postal) mail just a few years ago. < 1343026011 547125 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why they would < 1343026026 743211 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if they're old and nostalgic. < 1343026043 607696 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played shogi by mail too. < 1343026043 980844 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people have a "thing" for postage. < 1343026052 708071 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, if you get a good gaming PC you should definitely play Witcher 2. On the higher difficulty settings it becomes extremely hard. < 1343026055 630736 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-84.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: begone < 1343026060 556555 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes I was planning on it. < 1343026062 132601 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and requires quite a bit of timing < 1343026067 922603 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess postage is good because it forces things to go slow < 1343026070 327255 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on easy or normal I can play it though < 1343026071 790102 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read a lot about the company itself and I'm impressed with their business practices. < 1343026082 403324 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any reason not to support them by trying out what appears to be a really great PC game. < 1343026094 801595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, oh yes, they are definitely the most consumer friendly company when it comes to games out there currently < 1343026105 268188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, same company that runs gog.com, which is an awesome sit < 1343026106 526732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :site* < 1343026112 536552 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also I've been buying humble bundles in preparation for my future gaming PC < 1343026118 390602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make sure the games they sell on there work on modern systems < 1343026118 738761 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one game with braid which I'm excited to try out. < 1343026122 182645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :patching them as required < 1343026127 144891 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even announced that there would be braid, initially. < 1343026129 840319 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they added it. < 1343026134 780651 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually these days I receive a local posted letter the next day, or I send one and it arrives at the recipient in the next day. Especially if you use the tricks that speed up the mail (postal hacking). < 1343026135 948371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, surely braid runs well on anything < 1343026145 192999 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh. maybe. I haven't actually tried. < 1343026146 877145 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I played it on the laptop I'm on atm. Intel graphics. < 1343026150 637630 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1343026152 555893 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :core 2 duo < 1343026157 821877 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an i3 < 1343026164 63447 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel graphics. 4 GB RAM. < 1343026172 807700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 GB RAM. Core 2 Duo at 2.26 GHz < 1343026181 678889 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how a Core 2 Duo compares to i3 < 1343026186 663340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read my Dungeons&Dragons stories http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex < 1343026187 709670 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172191.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1343026187 860904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :older generation < 1343026188 501990 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think there are many i3's so that's not very helpful < 1343026192 771247 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: which? < 1343026195 811296 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1343026199 249235 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :core 2 duo is older < 1343026200 401186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of TeX? < 1343026201 351231 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1343026210 30391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_gen Primer < 1343026215 292917 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. I'll try out braid soon then. < 1343026218 397275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, btw play Bastion. Awesome game. Didn't work with intel graphics on linux at least < 1343026221 196451 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just kind of assumed that nothing plays well on this laptop. < 1343026224 970016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried it on a low end system on windows < 1343026225 728405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot? < 1343026227 261095 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I intend to. < 1343026234 567103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who does !bf_gen? < 1343026235 403406 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I own it and all. < 1343026238 134075 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1343026239 111054 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: for many years no one for him to persist in those reforms? it is true that he was a man utterly without faith or fnord that europe could be conciliated only by the dread of the gallant spectacle which they presented to countless thousands last friday, i am sure, of my idea of reform is meant to answer in the constitution, forbids such invasion and such surrender. the constituent parts of the fabric together, was no pro < 1343026252 290035 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf_gen hi < 1343026254 721286 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343026256 40734 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_gen hi < 1343026262 180060 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1343026262 786810 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1343026272 637059 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1343026273 20942 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1343026277 496909 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen hi < 1343026282 12235 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​41 ++++++++[>+++++++++++++>+>><<<<-]>.+.>++. [347] < 1343026284 441979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, but yeah a lot of the humble indie bundle games should run fine on low end hardware < 1343026289 280137 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all, but a lot < 1343026290 100613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Primer < 1343026292 291749 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​82 +++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>++.>>---.<+.++++.--------.>.>---. [131] < 1343026299 450326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf +++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>+++++++++>+<<<<-]>++.>>---.<+.++++.--------.>.>---. < 1343026300 779807 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Primer < 1343026306 585985 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah some do. Botanicula runs fine for example. < 1343026314 573168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, and if you already own them, just download them and try. :) Unless you are on a sucky internet connection < 1343026320 49298 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :good game. I haven't completed it but I come back to every once in a while. it's very relaxing. < 1343026324 206761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add the fungot style from Dungeons&Dragons story recording and character background story. < 1343026340 60688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, hey you should play Machinarium then too < 1343026345 853511 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was in an earlier bundle < 1343026348 845061 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same company < 1343026356 275970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :same style of game, completely different setting < 1343026358 566684 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually. I don't like point and clicks very much, so I have to be in the mood and I quickly get bored. < 1343026361 475396 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Character background stories are in level20_backstory.tex and scenario ideas are in level20_idea.txt < 1343026364 687655 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're fun to play when I am interested. < 1343026380 978880 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically play very fast-paced energetic games. < 1343026401 662022 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or slow-paced strategic games. < 1343026403 985922 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Do you like my computer game? < 1343026404 837260 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or puzzle games. < 1343026422 19201 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: which one < 1343026427 269318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, well, when it comes to point and click, Amanita Design is in a class of their own. < 1343026435 425858 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I can see that. < 1343026450 538090 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, what do you think about stealth games then? < 1343026451 450567 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Any of them, there is fast-pace game, slow-pace, puzzle game, etc < 1343026465 364727 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fun. I haven't played enough of them though. The hitman series is great. < 1343026472 944468 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, haven't played that < 1343026477 49570 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I played the first splinter cell but I wasn't old enough to be good at it. < 1343026486 236493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Deus Ex or Deus Ex: HR? < 1343026486 833094 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with hitman < 1343026489 687245 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played. < 1343026491 953161 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343026502 49744 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't recall any computer games. just the tabletop game. < 1343026517 899078 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try the CGA collection: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll2.zip is part of it. < 1343026524 916678 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played a metal gear solid game for the original game boy. don't recall the name. < 1343026527 919055 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was pretty fun. < 1343026536 2461 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll1.zip < 1343026538 92014 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't played any of the 3d ones. < 1343026565 26482 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343026605 662792 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/cgacoll.zip < 1343026626 570500 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any file in cgacoll2.zip overrides the older version in cgacoll1.zip and those override the older version in cgacoll.zip < 1343026649 353723 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are all DOS computer games. < 1343026683 986735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So you need to have DOS or a DOS emulator on your computer to run these.) < 1343026734 458614 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Alternatively, recompile them for the operating system you use, if you can figure out how; they are all written in QBASIC.) < 1343026750 984862 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I kind of regret not getting the second humble indie bundle for android. I had several of the games from before already. And I wasn't planning on getting any android device at the time. Now I have a Galaxy S3 < 1343026752 143033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1343026789 717909 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343026873 604734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Do you like this? < 1343026917 506412 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm probably not going to get a DOS emulator in my foreseeable lifetime. < 1343026962 136976 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the exception of implementing that IRC emulator sandbox that nortti- is also working on. < 1343026974 343821 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :-also (I'm not really working on it right now, but he is) < 1343026981 813510 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Not even X on DOS would inspire you? < 1343026994 994828 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that possible? < 1343027000 321681 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: probably not, still. < 1343027000 799102 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1343027014 599690 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why would anyone care for X on DOS? After all I have X natively < 1343027021 468183 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an IRC bot with a DOS emulator sandbox HackEgo-style < 1343027023 633626 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally acceptable. < 1343027023 857965 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DESQview/X < 1343027029 925592 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Shits, giggles < 1343027045 241662 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, Uh? I guess my brain just doesn't work that way., < 1343027048 369515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,$// < 1343027087 832721 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written a single game for the GameBoy, so if you have a GameBoy emulator you can do that one. I have also made some game on Windows, so if you have Windows you can do that too. I have also written some MegaZeux games; you need MegaZeux but it is available for most computers (including Nintendo DS). < 1343027119 804505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, have you written any games using OpenGL or DirectX? < 1343027138 281600 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've made a chess variant. but it probably needs a revision. < 1343027169 50154 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I thought it was sufficient incentive. < 1343027169 864920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1343027178 277408 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why would it be < 1343027210 783072 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because it's oddly enjoyable to IRC from DOS for 5 minutes. < 1343027211 468369 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :some peoples shits and giggles are not other peoples shits and giggles. < 1343027224 381463 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, this game uses DirectX: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/meskilb.png < 1343027255 552583 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I can't see the fun in that < 1343027261 412564 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, pretty much < 1343027271 823868 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I should note that DESQview/X also has a full TCP stack, and is usable with X's network transparency) < 1343027276 162994 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KA9Q to IRC from DOS; that thing is pretty spiffy. < 1343027287 140657 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much can you understand or guess from this screenshot? < 1343027308 469016 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: Well, this game uses DirectX: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/meskilb.png <-- Really? For what? < 1343027355 314212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :better question I guess is, have you written any game that uses OpenGL or Direct3D with a perspective projection < 1343027358 553867 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.... drawing graphics, I'd imagine. < 1343027361 437797 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what do I know. < 1343027365 873412 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*for < 1343027392 18823 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, well DirectX, not Direct3D... So I guess he could be using DirectSound or something < 1343027407 232039 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or DirectDraw < 1343027428 30135 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm pretty sure thats a mod of that tile puzzle game < 1343027438 652326 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I have not written any 3D perspective game. < 1343027446 955688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, which tile puzzle game?? < 1343027457 296915 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't remember it's name < 1343027480 163132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not made any game using 3D space so it won't use 3D view either. < 1343027555 503335 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MESH: Hero's Hearts < 1343027566 190657 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game uses DirectX only because the programming language I used requires it. I don't use that programming language much anymore as it is Windows-only, slow, and proprietary. < 1343027583 288966 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: No, this game is not based on MESH: Hero's Hearts it is a different game. < 1343027590 738752 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1343027601 738920 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it does have hearts, though) < 1343027605 798883 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the resolution is different.. i see that now < 1343027620 127787 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as can be seen from the picture) < 1343027730 751273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much of the game do you expect would be understandable just by this screenshot? What kind of guess would you make about it? < 1343027784 783465 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is not the kind of game I want to play < 1343027803 10718 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK; why? < 1343027835 325006 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks incredibly boring. < 1343027874 696763 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you not like this kind of puzzle game? < 1343027879 480700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a puzzle game or some such. < 1343027889 615244 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the graphics looks unpolished. < 1343027904 737248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't mind low-fi graphics, but this just looks kind of ugly) < 1343027930 731957 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't really like puzzle games. < 1343028009 825603 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: so, i figure you're reasonably smart. so this is evidence against a correlation of smart people liking puzzle games < 1343028030 450618 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1343028036 220237 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, yes, who claimed that < 1343028037 531418 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1343028069 940030 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1343028115 378435 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an embodiment whereby smart people don't inherently like ascetic graphics < 1343028135 293279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, both of those ideas are utterly silly < 1343028164 492704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that game... A tower defence game, was in one of the humble bundles. < 1343028174 78691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :had retro style graphics, very pretty < 1343028189 501945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only played a couple of levels, because it was tower defence (urgh) < 1343028195 593900 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1343028198 624798 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The level pictured is not particularly difficult. The more complicated ones are larger, may not all fit on the screen at once, and may include additional pieces such as star, train, bicycle, doors (open and closed), paper, web, upside-down spider, key, ghost, no-smoking sign, telephone, etc < 1343028224 232438 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, the developer had "puppy" in their name I remember < 1343028244 627284 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... Revenge of the Titans < 1343028257 724271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and there is also lights and clocks < 1343028263 817752 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm not worried about making sense. just exploring this thing. cos i also tend to not like puzzle games. < 1343028264 108421 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, that had retro graphics with some modern elements in it (I seem to recall some particle effects) < 1343028303 14280 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the cluster of balls, and scientific experiment. < 1343028317 323919 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, while minecraft has outright ugly graphics IMO. Unless you use a good texture pack < 1343028333 474723 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it is still not amazing, but it is reasonable enough < 1343028365 395119 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that the graphics is not the primary reason you don't want to play it < 1343028371 471654 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the graphics of CGA Collection? (they are all low-resolution CGA graphics or text 40x25) < 1343028372 105709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft? Indeed < 1343028396 353166 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the pic of zzo's game < 1343028429 748146 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343028430 678815 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game I pictured is not the CGA Collection, though. < 1343028442 185927 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nod nod < 1343028446 259085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I have no idea, nor do I intend to play those games. And you asking people if they like your stuff every time something semi-relevant is being discussed is getting annoying. < 1343028449 685882 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly not. CGA is rather obvious. < 1343028523 592724 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes perhaps I should not always repeat myself < 1343028538 188466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm VVVVVV. I sucked at that game. But damn was the sound track good. < 1343028565 717855 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1343028581 538713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the graphics, I don't think they were very good < 1343028619 737027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, did you buy the last humble bundle btw? < 1343028622 991703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: This is not a pipe < 1343028658 790401 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1343028674 293572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ouch, you missed out on some really awesome games < 1343028741 653527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm why does lsusb on linux list hubs and such as being made by "Linux Foundation"? < 1343028748 446709 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub < 1343028786 839239 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :CGA is only really obvious when someone's using the default palette. < 1343028817 952642 :Gregor!codu@codu.org QUIT :Excess Flood < 1343028825 168842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, what did Gregor do < 1343028859 959822 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The X-green-red-brown (with a freely chosable X) isn't quite so obvious. < 1343028897 993282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? Couldn't you select any 16 colours in CGA? < 1343028946 74226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In most modes, you can select one of the two four-color palettes, in which only one color is freely choosable. < 1343028952 855062 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343028957 537017 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why most CGA games are so full of magenta-cyan combinations. < 1343028976 815265 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought CGA had 16 colours... < 1343028980 242291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, nobody would make things look like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alleycat.png if there wasn't a technical reason. < 1343028989 535282 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1343028997 668192 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1343028997 936579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a total palette of 16 colours, that's true. < 1343029002 727370 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fucking hate those color combinations < 1343029015 375116 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of the subtractive colors put together < 1343029022 184973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how did they do white or black then if they only had green red, brown and X? < 1343029029 656674 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that image has both < 1343029059 938470 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The X-green-red-brown is the alternative palette, as opposed to the default one, which that one is using. < 1343029067 756888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343029072 573993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what everyone things of if the word "CGA" is mentioned. < 1343029085 566368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's X-magenta-cyan-white, with X=black by default. < 1343029091 461516 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343029123 997981 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the lack of white might explain why X-red-green-brown (or X-light red-light green-yellow) is not used so much. < 1343029150 251651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you couldn't do all 16 colours at the same time hm < 1343029150 525512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can toggle a high intensity bit to get the light versions of everything, but that's a global choice.) < 1343029171 864713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you switch mode while drawing? Or only during vsync? < 1343029182 86916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do all 16 in text mode, though. < 1343029189 784849 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343029208 625091 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can switch whenever, I'm pretty sure, but I don't think there's any sort of nice raster interrupt, so you'd need to be very careful with the timing. < 1343029238 431407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hsync interrupt? < 1343029243 251732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'd probably be tuned for a particular hardware combination then, which is not so good on the PC. < 1343029247 185490 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you call it < 1343029274 857370 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@119.146.220.27 QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1343029299 480859 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "raster interrupt" is the common word. Though it's a bit of a vague term. < 1343029305 87641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343029343 553816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch, CGA had non-square pixels? < 1343029360 421237 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : I suppose the lack of white might explain why X-red-green-brown (or X-light red-light green-yellow) is not used so much. < 1343029363 598366 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racism! < 1343029408 145311 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why graphics are so complicated < 1343029408 420270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Something shared with (the usual 320x200) VGA. < 1343029428 689264 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@119.146.220.27 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343029432 990744 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion, not really. There are no "white" humans. Try to find a human with a skin colour of #000, you won't find any < 1343029454 36009 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: #FFF? < 1343029457 374859 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes < 1343029458 737816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1343029467 347863 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind, you won't find humans with a skin color of #000 either. < 1343029468 135477 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1343029470 793331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1343029479 315541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Possibly because 320*200 < 2^16 but 320*240 > 2^16 and VGA video memory lives in a0000..affff.) < 1343029491 965174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, also you mean #fff, writing hexdecimal with upper case letters always annoys me < 1343029492 212100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Maybe after a particularly bad fire... < 1343029496 893930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks so ugly < 1343029533 676007 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 0xDEADBEEF < 1343029535 477358 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god for modern graphics. No need to bother about VGA, SVGA and what not < 1343029539 656566 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't really a good book for doing basic graphics in 2012 < 1343029540 966740 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, 0xdeadbeef :P < 1343029554 161191 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, what < 1343029567 294232 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x!@#$$%^&*() < 1343029571 351743 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1343029646 834521 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also RGB or any such model is such a terrible representation of colour. It fails horrible when handling coloured light hitting a differently coloured object < 1343029647 190944 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fundamental graphics operations in 2012 is things like, render a bitmap so that it is visible to the user, and, render a sequence of frames while avoiding screen-tearing < 1343029671 131799 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the case matter in numbers? < 1343029681 86860 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion, read the reason above < 1343029682 527439 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Somehow I doubt RGB is meant to handle that. < 1343029694 312390 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, indeed. So why do we use that to render graphics? < 1343029703 602068 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want full spectrum information < 1343029709 130844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, not very hard to do? < 1343029717 869810 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You also want things to be fast, you know. < 1343029723 181921 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, you just need an artist to design the sprites and so on < 1343029727 70218 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes sadly :/ < 1343029730 747974 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yes, RGB is a *terrible* model for any actual mangling of the color... < 1343029740 913366 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you want is a lab colorspace. < 1343029741 924629 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's the same reason we use PCM. it's a discrete sampling of continuous data. < 1343029751 144851 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's just that each method of doing so has many idiosyncracies... so it is not actually possible to explain how to do it in general terms < 1343029764 428789 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, also it will sucks if we ever meet aliens. < 1343029822 407645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, yes but that doesn't depend on the specific frequencies of that the human eye can see. It would work just as fine for an alien < 1343029833 930347 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess what i would like is a guide to the idiosyncracies of graphics hardware and software < 1343029845 88966 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but human art won't be sanely visible for aliens anyways... < 1343029861 669444 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As that's based entirely in RGB. < 1343029863 448432 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, nor does it break when processing the data, as long as the sampling frequency and so on is good enough < 1343029874 948682 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what about hand drawn stuff? < 1343029890 953015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :RGB for a color is more like representing all sounds as a weighted linear combination of three spectra than just discretization. The only reason we get away with it is because eyes. < 1343029892 474177 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Our *pigments* only look right when viewed by an RGB viewer. < 1343029896 419023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ah < 1343029900 171410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343029907 679714 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our eyes are analog RGB samplers. < 1343029908 476446 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that makes so much sense. < 1343029916 896999 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't thought of it that way. < 1343029924 345569 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, most people use eyes to do much of their looking, as opposed to spectroscopes. < 1343029939 816959 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes RGB just about ideal for *rendering* things for humans... < 1343029963 349858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I heard of tetrachromancy (sp?) exists in humans. Extremely rare. But I read something about that a couple of years ago < 1343029971 119912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :only possible in females as well iirc < 1343029983 816128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's a recessive gene on the X chromosome. < 1343029999 824900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so what does art look like to them? Or computer graphics? < 1343030002 477592 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible I guess? < 1343030013 392119 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird, depends on how their eyes work. < 1343030019 590133 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Further studies will need to be conducted to verify tetrachromacy in humans. Two possible tetrachromats have been identified: "Mrs. M", an English social worker, was located in a study conducted in 1993,[11] and an unidentified female physician near Newcastle, England, was discovered in a study reported in 2006.[10] Neither case has been fully verified." < 1343030022 114401 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343030024 755423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of a dubious thing. < 1343030028 871871 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they have RGB, they won't be able to view things like "brown". < 1343030034 811096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc wikipedia is a bit outdated on that < 1343030050 658192 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alleycat was a fun game < 1343030054 43101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well presumably they have RGBX or something like that? < 1343030057 496178 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i played it on my 8086 < 1343030059 938742 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, at least the existing cells have pretty wide frequency response curves. < 1343030066 133998 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, wait, tetrachromats. < 1343030069 445452 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Beats me. < 1343030072 210430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt a fourth type will make all that much of a difference. < 1343030075 854574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what did you think about? < 1343030082 998866 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the 4th cone is... < 1343030086 234687 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking aliens. < 1343030094 53479 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact, i think alleycat is better than most 3d games < 1343030100 41252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, iirc it is between red and green < 1343030128 983493 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea. < 1343030159 492007 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, the brain might just give up on figuring out an appropriate quale. < 1343030185 789324 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean with "quale"? < 1343030194 754122 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :singular of qualia < 1343030196 539989 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1343030199 272979 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is that < 1343030199 904118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1343030201 744123 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1343030230 747877 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Term used in philosophy to refer to the subjective conscious experience of various sensations. < 1343030236 628096 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1343030242 915026 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343030248 806403 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as opposed to the objective things they correspond to) < 1343030260 435842 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, what do you mean with the brain giving up on figuring out the quale then? < 1343030265 996543 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, colors are something you learn, so assuming you're born with one kind of eyes, you'll just get colors. < 1343030290 105231 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, of course, but the thing is, would the colours on a computer monitor look realistic < 1343030295 802330 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is the brain actually capable of giving meaningful interpretations of RXGB? < 1343030312 753581 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1343030321 220371 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does it do something like treat X as half R and half G?... < 1343030322 7460 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: qualia is best explained by that old question, do you and i see the same red? < 1343030337 720912 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how any of this works. < 1343030340 157469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Again, the frequency responses are pretty broad; my completely uninformed guess is that it'd be at least passable. < 1343030356 987352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently there's a paper from 2001 arguing that people with four photopigments have a "richer" view of colours, based on how much they speak about colours when describing things, to simplify a little. < 1343030366 881420 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why shouldn't it be, if you grew up with it. After all far from all mamals have RGB. Even primates have different cone cell arrangements < 1343030377 844409 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red Gray Brown < 1343030383 784308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, doesn't work < 1343030388 60186 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Again, I have no fucking clue about how this actually works. < 1343030395 336553 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just making educated guesses. < 1343030397 514692 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I forgot which primate it was, but one of them have 3 cone cells in females and 2 in males < 1343030403 2029 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1343030454 805393 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Humans if there were any selection pressure in *favor* of color blindness? :) < 1343030469 624673 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, grammar parse error? < 1343030474 264604 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you lost a word < 1343030494 540350 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, just a somewhat weird usage. < 1343030508 557646 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, humans WHAT if there ...? < 1343030516 968164 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So, that would be humans, if there were any selection pressue in favor of color blindness?" Mild restating. < 1343030527 868048 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe? < 1343030539 278611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't nature develop spectrometers instead of simple colour sensors. < 1343030550 275981 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1343030552 899340 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd have been... slightly harder? < 1343030560 646173 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *did* with ears. < 1343030562 294326 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well sure, but it would be much more awesome < 1343030563 903993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also possibly not such a remarkable evolutionary benefit. < 1343030580 107232 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the cochlea approximates an analog Fourier transform) < 1343030582 293967 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I would like to see into ultraviolent and infrared < 1343030592 494840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: The frequencies involved are a bit different, though. < 1343030601 214558 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but uh.. you know how when your retina is catching a wavelength 650nm (pardon my confusion of terms), and the dictionary name for this is red, but aside from all that, qualia represents that raw direct subjective experience < 1343030609 522053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it'd be very trivial to build a light-cochlea. < 1343030617 140190 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least from the same materials. < 1343030631 553870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, pikhq_ explained it adequately above...? < 1343030643 928234 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :subjectively, red is the color of afro voodoo magic. < 1343030656 307651 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot deny this. < 1343030657 633942 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well obviously one is pressure based and the other is based on electromagnetism < 1343030681 476853 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution has this nasty tendency to do things that are trivial improvements, rather than what makes any sense. :) < 1343030687 808524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm just saying that it's easier to deal with one than with the other. < 1343030689 993648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, true < 1343030704 993812 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can tell a tiger from a bush without having to consider the full spectra of tiger-fur and bush-leaves. < 1343030720 818827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway what about small prisms in front of a row of light sensitive molecules? < 1343030737 597959 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :An engineer would do that. < 1343030743 656085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1343030769 850707 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution leaves a vestigial retina in the brain. < 1343030781 515706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, hm? < 1343030791 453135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1343030797 829127 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The pineal gland is a highly vestigial eye, part of it is a non-functional retina. < 1343030817 866167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1343030843 665182 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it's like the third eye, man. < 1343030846 748898 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do a reasonable approximation by just having, say, 256 different types of cone cells with narrower frequency responses that we currently have. < 1343030858 435783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also something that an engineer might do. < 1343030866 814570 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of miss webtv < 1343030869 505441 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially that number. < 1343030884 602901 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah yes < 1343030886 139664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both that and the prism thing have tradeoffs when it comes to resolution, though, since you need to fit multiple elements per spatial location. < 1343030896 600958 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric : also watching MLP:FiM because it's fucking amazing bronyness is not a choice, it is a calling. < 1343030919 354732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think the prism solution might give a better resolution perhaps < 1343030928 894469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I wouldn't mind a slightly larger sensor area < 1343030933 490445 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: In ancient times the pineal gland was called the third eye... < 1343030945 457264 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: i played a dragon ball z based byond game once.. < 1343030952 288844 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Unwittingly appropriate. < 1343030958 457175 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Hah. < 1343030970 505976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Depends possibly on what kind of things you look, and how well you can do the interpolation. The different-cones version is basically like the bayer pattern in a digital camera, except with more colors. < 1343030976 58330 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are seemingly 20 million dragon ball z based games, half of which use images ripped from the other half < 1343030977 681340 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on BYOND < 1343030978 202033 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't any good at the roleplay side of things though < 1343030994 248910 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: it also makes stuff that makes hallucinate. so yes. it makes sense in that light as well. < 1343030994 901464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... < 1343030995 168182 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you get better luma resolution than chroma resolution, sort-of. < 1343031004 153458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming things you look are reasonably wide-spectrum. < 1343031042 371585 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about trading time-resolution for chroma-resolution? < 1343031047 183460 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which is true of humans too... < 1343031076 197135 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have the light sensitive molecules being replaced a hundred times per second or so. Cycling between say 16 different ones < 1343031089 317219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: In the eye it really depends on the region of the retina, too. (I'm not sure an engineer would do *that*.) < 1343031091 175958 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense: luma is relevant for fine detail. Chroma is kinda just bonus. < 1343031091 901984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of wheel? < 1343031108 377925 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Even at the most color-sensitive areas we're far more luma sensitive. < 1343031120 669320 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or why not panchromatic sensors and different light filters < 1343031133 796686 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that is what is done in astrophotography < 1343031158 812108 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't nature just make efficient perfect beings of infinite energy < 1343031163 242472 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and efficiency < 1343031168 61801 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have the retina change filtering characteristics rapidly over a short time < 1343031171 453203 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned hill-climbing algorithms. < 1343031198 464582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well said < 1343031201 644019 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITC: Vorpal disputes the effectiveness of the universe. < 1343031218 623858 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, "ITC" meaning? International Trade Something? < 1343031225 616862 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this channel < 1343031227 48489 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In This Channel < 1343031228 241230 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343031236 945216 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in "in this thread" except that doesn't make sense here. < 1343031246 505231 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you interpret "thread" to mean "thread of discussion" < 1343031250 281887 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, actually I think I dispute the efficiency rather than the effectiveness? < 1343031268 599452 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution sure as hell *works*. < 1343031268 787452 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like you're talking about the deficiency. < 1343031271 213225 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I don't use forums much, so I'm not familiar with "in this thread" < 1343031284 544941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Well, obviously, since you need three kinds of cones to get the "full" chroma, while you get some amount of independent luma information from each of them. < 1343031293 651276 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of several ways to descend into meta-discussion about the weirdness of a topic. < 1343031297 342917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no rods right there in the middle, so low-light vision is close to nil there. < 1343031315 215680 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, an engineer *definitely* wouldn't do the thing with the optic nerve. < 1343031322 34027 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least an engineer you'd rehire. < 1343031327 281876 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's friggin' backwards! < 1343031351 898728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it is, and other species have it the right way around, with no unnecessary blind spots. < 1343031357 944665 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean the blind spot? < 1343031360 126270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1343031362 560340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is terrible < 1343031367 170917 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shall steal an octopus's eye
< 1343031383 962852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's what it is, and other species have it the right way around, with no unnecessary blind spots. <-- hm only humans have blind spots? < 1343031385 646497 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1343031393 95233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, s/other/some other/ < 1343031395 541029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343031397 426647 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Cephalopods. < 1343031419 424711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, oh so everyone except Cephalopods have it backwards? < 1343031445 704167 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, yes, except it's only the cephalopods and vertebrates that have eyes of the sort. < 1343031460 373517 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an intelligent being inside this system, I feel like my capability of judging the systems merits in any way is not effective. We can only really accurately observe the events that come from it, and find patterns in it. Any kind of normative analysis is bound to be flawed in some way. < 1343031464 427190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, hm? < 1343031483 157074 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As far as I know, nothing else has the whole lens and retina thing going on. < 1343031486 729954 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what about eyes in other groups? Like whatever group spiders are in? < 1343031492 608163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343031503 862179 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are single photosensitive cells, aren't they? < 1343031521 304368 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they are larger than single cells? < 1343031526 712895 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have 8 eyes right? < 1343031546 981954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of them have that compound eye thing going on. < 1343031563 43523 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is that < 1343031563 720992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like some thousands of individual "eyes". < 1343031566 125299 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343031571 97259 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oriented a bit differently. < 1343031574 9577 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I though compound eyes were bunches of lenses before bunches of single photosensitive cells. < 1343031604 359291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, those being the individual "eyes". < 1343031621 174903 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So no spatial stuff going on in there, just from the combined outputs. < 1343031649 942291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye#Types_of_eye lists quite a few types. < 1343031668 724537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten counting the section titles., < 1343031680 423997 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized I'm literally sitting in the room that I used to play with WebTV in while listening to WebTV music < 1343031749 415621 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect tense is a fun tense. < 1343031763 281643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :webtv? what is that < 1343031771 159345 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spookfish eye is probably my favorite, just for sheer weirdness. < 1343031787 859624 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, tell us about them < 1343031841 253458 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, a dial-up box you would attach to your TV to let you surf the web without a computer < 1343031847 644725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, I see < 1343031854 221261 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, it had special music? < 1343031856 810478 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They use both refractive and reflective optics. < 1343031863 754613 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, how < 1343031870 367436 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music that you could play in the background while you surfed, yeah < 1343031875 135256 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Spookeye.svg < 1343031886 345638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, anyway don't cats do that? They have lenses but then mirrors behind the cone cells < 1343031890 424920 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rods or whatever < 1343031906 143305 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I have no idea how to interpret that drawinbg < 1343031908 657938 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawing* < 1343031910 928547 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're a form of barreleye fish (i.e. they have a transparent head, so the eye can move around) < 1343031922 355322 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The right side is the normal eye, which looks up. < 1343031935 187988 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The left side is a mirror feeding into a retina, which looks down. < 1343031935 670181 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343031940 793316 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I se < 1343031942 193697 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :see* < 1343031958 477085 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a remote for it < 1343031963 889952 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could buy a keyboard for it < 1343031972 367651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, so they see both up and down? With the same eye? < 1343031974 565367 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1343031975 416762 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1343031975 608442 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, now that you mention it, I kind of remember WebTV. < 1343031981 562905 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@119.146.220.27 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1343031983 467463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I've seen one live. < 1343032004 462724 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It always sounded like having a computer except not quite a real one. < 1343032047 113752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you could have flashed custom firmware to the device < 1343032055 565519 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all it probably was a low end computer in it < 1343032062 220696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :had* < 1343032063 193198 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Barreleye fish are themselves pretty weird... < 1343032064 566144 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mbari.org/news/news_releases/2009/barreleye/barreleye1-350.jpg < 1343032084 194286 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The eyes there are the green domes in the middle of the skull. < 1343032093 849293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what are the eye-like things on the front then? < 1343032106 70112 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Olfactory organs. < 1343032112 397959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Regarding the cats, from what I recall, they just have a reflective coating behind the retina so that you get a bit more photons in for the low-light case. < 1343032115 689970 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, heh < 1343032123 920192 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1343032134 337216 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0YblbVNPKw only video of WebTV I could find < 1343032137 696752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so their eyes is a combination of reflection and refraction < 1343032143 223508 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1343032146 680757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only in a rather minor sense, though. < 1343032150 9562 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1343032151 255908 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Not most barreleye fish. < 1343032155 237891 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the spookfish. < 1343032160 517311 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, I meant the cats < 1343032162 189434 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that commercial only shows the TV side < 1343032164 10608 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Right. < 1343032165 104435 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1343032165 867891 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no it doesn't < 1343032180 274486 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just not using the god-damned weird reflective optics. < 1343032184 243900 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a few seconds of showing the web stuff < 1343032201 647123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, how is reflective optics weird? < 1343032216 950675 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the dark, all cats are grey. (That's what they say.) < 1343032221 216975 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, anyway these fishes, are they deep sea ones? < 1343032225 273629 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Name to me some animals other than spookfish that use it. < 1343032247 962133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a biologist. I wouldn't know < 1343032259 207168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, but the principles look the same as for telescopes < 1343032270 648947 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: "Many small organisms such as rotifers, copepods and platyhelminths use such organs, but these are too small to produce usable images.[1] Some larger organisms, such as scallops, also use reflector eyes. The scallop Pecten has up to 100 millimetre-scale reflector eyes fringing the edge of its shell. It detects moving objects as they pass successive lenses." < 1343032278 484195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly spookfish is the only listed vertebrate there. < 1343032285 874860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From that "Types of eye" list.) < 1343032286 114610 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, hmm. < 1343032291 195980 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rotifer sounds like a Nethack monster that causes rotting. < 1343032292 708240 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343032306 710142 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion, to me it sounds like an enemy from Witcher 2 < 1343032311 990663 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that existed < 1343032347 792791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, it was "rotfiend" < 1343032353 697774 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's only weird because *hardly anything else* does it. < 1343032357 364595 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird how English has no way to distinguish different kinds of future tenses < 1343032363 268722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, right < 1343032378 745072 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use tense to distinguish a future event relative to a future reference point. < 1343032388 610224 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the spookfish is weird in a different way: an engineer would just give that thing four eyes of the same sort. < 1343032391 941024 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can describe past events from a past reference point. < 1343032395 45630 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, hm how does human eyes handle chromatic aberration? < 1343032403 706976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :do our brains compensate the positions? < 1343032452 310662 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By not being sensitive to colors when that'd matter, I suspect. < 1343032475 566034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, oh right, TCA is not so much of a problem near the middle true < 1343032485 968989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it still does happen near the middle of lenses < 1343032489 902643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not very much < 1343032499 779037 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: And English is more precise about them than some. < 1343032550 50515 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1343032558 613030 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is sad humans have fixed zoom :/ < 1343032576 946679 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Japanese, for instance, has a present/future tense, not a future tense. < 1343032577 150498 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks that we don't have rocket feet. < 1343032586 338545 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sucks that we don't have wheels. < 1343032593 649304 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rocket wheels < 1343032599 948653 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1343032601 796278 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can fly when we're not rolling down grassy slopes < 1343032605 865356 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And prehensile wings. < 1343032606 991736 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :an engineer would never have done that in a high end model like humans (I mean, we have one of the top end brains of the animal kingdom) < 1343032637 239874 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, wheels have technical problems though < 1343032645 306934 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really work as well as legs on uneven terrain < 1343032647 441525 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which are negated by rocket feet. < 1343032647 592737 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If an engineer were going to give humans legs, we'd look like centaurs. < 1343032652 414317 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, right < 1343032678 118750 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'd just have to eat a lot of food to produce the highly explosive rocket fuel. < 1343032684 730274 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bipedalism is just a *royal friggin' pain*. < 1343032685 309474 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, actually two legs are more efficient at navigating steep terrain than four legs < 1343032685 937370 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's okay with rocket feet we'd be excellent predators. < 1343032695 36595 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, from what I remember < 1343032752 210419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why aren't there any three-legged creatures? < 1343032753 968254 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are there? < 1343032759 985081 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 word: goats. < 1343032761 939850 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also more efficient for long distance running. < 1343032764 855084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what? < 1343032767 552673 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are stupidly good at steep terrain. < 1343032768 181466 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1343032770 989252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1343032790 137289 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: True, and that is what we did in the ancestral environment. < 1343032794 755917 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1343032802 957561 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343032806 69141 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :we also used it to our advantage when hunting, and still do. < 1343032806 241441 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1343032820 311257 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we could chase prey until they grew tired. < 1343032834 75148 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, anyway what creatures with an odd number of legs? Are there any? < 1343032844 642781 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know of any. < 1343032847 128851 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343032850 402953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is interesting < 1343032862 475063 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not very efficient? < 1343032864 743382 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: All the animals with appendages are bilaterians. < 1343032871 781529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, "bilaterians"? < 1343032877 89322 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1343032882 422599 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The clade of animals with bilateral symmetry. < 1343032882 937612 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bilaterial < 1343032883 574288 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ness < 1343032893 298877 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, okay so what does "bilaterial" mean? < 1343032902 89316 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"line symmetry" < 1343032904 175023 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343032907 618004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343032918 536745 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a line you can divide us up into where the 2 halves are more or less the same. < 1343032919 111732 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you could have a leg in the middle < 1343032942 819000 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1343032951 869480 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess there was some reason not to. < 1343032961 579350 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just chance < 1343032963 405153 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1343032973 770158 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE KNOWS < 1343032981 502854 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not yet < 1343032987 410982 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stochastic hill climbing algorithms are really hard to reverse engineer. :P < 1343032997 24891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Chelgarians have that midlimb, IIRC. (The downside is that they're entirely fictional.) < 1343033003 813664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343033014 401515 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is indeed a downside in this discussion < 1343033036 439128 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess there are male elephants? Their... penis is prehensile and can bear weight. < 1343033049 405639 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1343033051 426025 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1343033056 489005 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1343033071 899767 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually now that you mention it, I have a vague memory of hearing about that < 1343033090 104464 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, do they use it as an extra leg though? < 1343033097 28316 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was trying to find an intelligent way to incorporate penises into this discussion after middle appendages were mentioned, but couldn't come up with anything.
< 1343033165 636898 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: When trying to maintain balance. < 1343033169 102116 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1343033182 172091 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/wp-content/blogs.dir/474/files/2012/04/i-2325d7f6567e1a7459f965b85b2d82cd-Elephant-penis.jpg < 1343033204 826063 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Re chromatic aberration, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromostereopsis < 1343033283 642249 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting the different survival strategies of life. < 1343033291 522906 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343033294 789993 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :some species are very inactive. consume little. do little. < 1343033305 8536 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, such as Americans ;) < 1343033317 750914 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay they don't consume a little < 1343033322 197643 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise yes < 1343033323 59238 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say humans as a whole are on the opposite end of the spectrum. < 1343033327 969827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1343033330 614940 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how you define "do" < 1343033337 988138 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :we move a lot of energy around. < 1343033342 928193 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of its origin. < 1343033445 345621 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, beavers are second place in terms of altering their environment. < 1343033460 536458 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343033512 726613 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1343033529 120595 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only other animal I can think of that notably alters the environment on short time scales. < 1343033562 598175 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps some kind of fungus? < 1343033573 331837 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what you count as an animal < 1343033576 900871 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well, a lot of animals build various kind of nests and so on < 1343033580 216204 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :foxes for example < 1343033600 270124 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :beavers completely alter the flow of rivers though. < 1343033601 151632 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :various tunneling rodents too < 1343033626 177002 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friggin' *dams* though. < 1343033632 992524 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, right, but if it didn't have effect downstreams, it wouldn't end up as highly on that list < 1343033650 113131 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean damn. < 1343033652 932271 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. If it weren't for that it'd be not much different from, say, bees. < 1343033654 209951 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :frickin' dams. < 1343033655 728831 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1343033664 732154 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, bees? < 1343033671 283948 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They make hives. < 1343033673 706215 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1343033688 309682 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And many other animals make analogous homes. < 1343033691 573143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, and there are various rodents that build dwellings below ground < 1343033697 623648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and termites and what not < 1343033704 401011 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody else intentionally dams a river, though. < 1343033711 400911 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember which insects build huge ground-based hives. Maybe it was some species of ant? < 1343033724 201782 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CAE9.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343033727 386585 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Termite. < 1343033730 20426 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was a wasp or something. < 1343033734 242546 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was a flying insect. < 1343033755 938175 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Termite_Cathedral_DSC03570.jpg That's a termite mound. < 1343033772 767173 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah that's the one < 1343033788 84157 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc termites can fly. That is queens during part of their life. or so < 1343033795 594118 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can go up to 30ft (9m) high. < 1343033796 984485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of ant or termite anyway < 1343033819 251584 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :any kind of insect that resembles another insect but with wings scares me for some reason < 1343033823 78547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, why do they look like that? Why the vertical element to them? < 1343033841 450752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, cooling towers? < 1343033842 803557 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :like there's a species around here that resembles huge cockroaches but with large wings. < 1343033847 75838 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they remind me of that < 1343033854 72067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain old conical anthills can get pretty large too. < 1343033860 645110 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They do in fact keep the towers at a precise temperature. < 1343033865 133505 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, oh? < 1343033874 460547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, what do they store in them? < 1343033876 681733 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Within 1°C of a constant temperature, always. < 1343033884 150547 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some species maintain fungal colonies for food. < 1343033887 28611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343033924 49088 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say that kudzu alters its environment quite a bit when it grows in the southeast US, by completely engulfing it. :P < 1343033936 712777 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :entire sections of forest. < 1343033943 992396 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they are sometimes in really, really hot places. < 1343033949 289219 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, not in short term? < 1343033953 365912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_giant_African_ant_hill_with_somone_on_it.JPG Wikipedia has the best file names. < 1343033958 309473 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they didn't work to cool it, any colony would roast. < 1343033964 144889 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Kudzu grows really quickly. < 1343033967 461770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Exactly What It Says On The Tin. < 1343033968 881587 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wouldn't want to be that guy < 1343033978 965285 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :several feet per day I believe? < 1343033992 695541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343033995 805188 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, wow < 1343034001 613736 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not that much < 1343034004 978516 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :several inches maybe < 1343034005 807557 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, so could you see it growing while watching? < 1343034008 158034 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343034019 713523 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kudzu's kind of a problem here. < 1343034025 66696 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1343034037 13713 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, are they native to the area? < 1343034040 594023 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1343034042 673491 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343034058 788085 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did they grow natively? < 1343034064 991245 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan. < 1343034065 280244 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from China I believe. < 1343034068 258156 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343034076 957343 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kept in check by winter. < 1343034093 358768 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It apparently grows up to 1 foot per day. < 1343034096 696649 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343034099 172913 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 30 cm < 1343034103 812118 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1343034117 559348 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem is, the South doesn't have much of a winter. < 1343034122 969662 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the kudzu grows year round. < 1343034123 472591 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/invasivetutorial/images/kudzu4.jpg < 1343034125 177274 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kudzu < 1343034127 145939 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343034128 483753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Environmental effects and animals: rabbits, Australia. < 1343034139 761996 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, they grow over trees? < 1343034144 770331 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, or what are the vertical things? < 1343034145 625357 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1343034147 315471 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're a vine. < 1343034151 104880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1343034160 266221 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Australian bears covered by alien plants? < 1343034160 989417 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you have introduced them to the area? < 1343034174 78095 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :accident < 1343034174 504881 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, "Australian bears"? < 1343034195 751453 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, so what do you do to deal with those plants? < 1343034197 626661 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Japanese pavilion in the 1876 Centennial Exposition in Philadelphia. < 1343034201 498228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1343034214 822214 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No bears in australia? < 1343034219 216011 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a pitty. < 1343034222 622690 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for dealing with them: WIP. < 1343034235 399025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Effects on Australia's ecology: Since their introduction from Europe in the 19th century, the effect of rabbits on the ecology of Australia has been devastating. They are suspected of being the most significant known factor in species loss in Australia. The loss of plant species is unknown at this time. Rabbits often kill young trees in orchards, forests and on properties by ringbarking them. ... < 1343034240 531234 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, what does Australia have to do with it at all? < 1343034241 399006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Rabbits are also responsible for serious erosion problems, as they eat native plants, leaving the topsoil exposed and vulnerable to sheet, gully and wind erosion. The removal of this topsoil is devastating to the land, as it takes many hundreds of years to regenerate." < 1343034273 716130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I know < 1343034277 87586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bears though < 1343034278 817101 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't know.
< 1343034287 552928 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's not even like it'd be impossible to come up with a use for it... < 1343034308 777101 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, well of course, you can use it for whatever it was used for over where it was native < 1343034322 219216 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Food. < 1343034325 887381 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1343034336 439155 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :medicine too it seems < 1343034338 955314 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also usable for making ethanol. < 1343034358 443762 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume you American does take advantage of it like that? < 1343034370 435592 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope! < 1343034374 240976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1343034381 675964 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: these "vertical things" do look pretty weird. those trees are probably complete dead from lack of sunlight. < 1343034382 542805 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not corn, and we're idiots. < 1343034400 923152 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, ...? < 1343034402 378534 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ethanol *from corn* is subsidised for fuel) < 1343034411 650318 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, no branches < 1343034436 848888 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, you could still use it for other stuff < 1343034440 488808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't fuel < 1343034455 403947 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's edible. I've never tried it though < 1343034469 668809 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Careful, you're proposing logic. < 1343034491 464804 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, speaking of which. Antwerpen zoo's gift shop sold paper made out of poo. They were very proud of it. < 1343034515 337147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't buy any, though I did consider buying a notepad and giving it as a gift to someone at work. < 1343034525 726645 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_, yes? < 1343034527 16093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can write your feedback suggestions on this, it'd really fit." < 1343034538 177533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bullshit on bullshit, and so on. < 1343034544 10488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343034556 726460 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know anyone to diss like that, really, so skipped. < 1343034557 137719 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did it smell badly? < 1343034575 477706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't smell anything. < 1343034579 990478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This brand, I think: http://new.poopoopaper.com/ < 1343034591 52907 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of poop? < 1343034602 199112 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: We drive vehicles large enough to be a rollover risk. Thinking is not our strong suite. < 1343034602 391791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"POOPOOPAPER? products are natural, recycled and odorless (!) paper products made from poop from a variety of different fiber-eating vegetarian animals such as elephants, cows, horses, moose, pandas, and donkeys. That right! Go figure!" < 1343034608 961078 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343034609 874812 :gushen!c91b88b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.27.136.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343034613 772803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a ruler here, made out of recycled circuit board (and a metal bit around the edges so it works as a ruler < 1343034644 789566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's like reusing computer poo, then. < 1343034657 200190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, that is why I mentioned it < 1343034672 404015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Take your time to explore our site and our POOPOOPAPER WEBSTORE called ?THE POOTIQUE?." < 1343034675 575279 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the company that made it had like a one page web site last I checked < 1343034678 226294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, it was mostly about the puns. < 1343034681 825757 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if they were still around < 1343034703 288714 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got an interesting idea for a website recently. < 1343034730 473554 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially a service that allows you to create a very small virtual server instance, for the purpose of security testing. < 1343034731 346476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We take the 'oo' out of poo!" "FECAL MATTER O'FACTS" it's like an endless succession of bad puns. < 1343034745 634214 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a public listing of all the servers, and information about how to login. < 1343034764 467760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "CompuNote", can only find a Brazillian page now. The web site printed on the item is dead < 1343034766 58934 :gushen!c91b88b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.27.136.184 QUIT :Client Quit < 1343034773 405164 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(compunote.net) < 1343034776 806838 :gushen!c91b88b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.27.136.184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343034788 885158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is still this however: http://www.compunote.com.br/indexp.htm < 1343034790 851124 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have people testing the security of their software, and people trying to break in. < 1343034808 695030 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no clue how to implement it in any practical sense. < 1343034817 408897 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think it's a neat idea. < 1343034828 431278 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: People do "jewelry" from computer chips, I know that. < 1343034832 522467 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1343034843 167977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And one restaurant in Otaniemi is IIRC decorated with old motherboards. < 1343034845 615750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should take a picture of the thing < 1343034849 859218 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1343034863 501519 :gushen!c91b88b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.27.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the programming language of the universe and I can explain it to you. But I have only 20 minutes. Private chat only. < 1343034865 756253 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of unaffiliated people here. < 1343034872 829507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is kind of neat. Somewhat damaged from when I used it with a paper cutter and ended up on the ruler by mistake though < 1343034877 326065 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gushen, I'll take it < 1343034884 591039 :gushen!c91b88b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.27.136.184 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all right sir < 1343034912 748725 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'd be careful around the part where your credit card info is asked. < 1343034926 107199 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I bought the thing at some tech museum gift shop thingy like 10 years ago < 1343035301 73212 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone seen the "what if" xkcd stuff? < 1343035313 502907 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/87474461/20120723_111712.jpg and http://dl.dropbox.com/u/87474461/20120723_111718.jpg < 1343035326 302090 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, yeah, it's really gone downhill since it started < 1343035343 123631 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, oh? got a link? < 1343035358 334353 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1343035366 239704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fery Fancy. < 1343035372 140022 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what < 1343035387 56463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Very Vancy. < 1343035387 643108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is a mobile phone camera, so quality is meh < 1343035389 693106 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well, there's only three so far. that's not a very big sample size. < 1343035396 990996 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2 out of 3 are good < 1343035401 278865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, what was the point of that spelling? < 1343035408 416283 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://what-if.xkcd.com/ < 1343035423 799716 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I enjoyed the first one most, and I'm making a joke at the expense of xkcd < 1343035438 147654 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No point. I don't do points. < 1343035439 39376 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What's that bottom side? < 1343035554 621993 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some kind of high friction surface < 1343035563 30976 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like a very compact plastic foam kind of thing < 1343035586 132099 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no idea what it is called < 1343035646 199656 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is a very nice ruler except that because of the high friction thingy standing out a bit it isn't ideal to use to draw straight lines, the distance between the edge and the paper is maybe a millimetre or so < 1343035744 549321 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1343035991 923004 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, I think all three so far was okay. The first one was most interesting. But one of them were bad as such < 1343036050 435479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.xkcd.com/1083/ <-- I don't get this one < 1343036170 996559 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably, politicians are using what some people call txtspeak more often than teenagers are, and a lot of teenagers are into Ron paul? < 1343036184 369856 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they? okay < 1343036199 691275 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I hate "txtspeak" < 1343036229 565859 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you a senator? < 1343036237 517212 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1343036376 112678 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you shouldn't use txtspeak < 1343036399 861047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1343036484 745254 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/3994 < 1343036565 683498 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://web.archive.org/web/20080910194707/http://www.compunote.net/en/index.html < 1343036686 454336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, how pointless < 1343037420 513082 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: whoa thats cool man < 1343037460 718493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, see the image of my ruler above < 1343037465 896909 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/87474461/20120723_111712.jpg and http://dl.dropbox.com/u/87474461/20120723_111718.jpg < 1343037658 198156 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is there any use for the circuit bord in that ruler? < 1343037668 213419 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, no. Read the context < 1343037690 608130 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1343037795 751563 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: the purpose is it looks cool, and it's a solid material structure < 1343037820 637997 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, also, it will otherwise be in landfill < 1343037905 672527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder what the circuit board was originally from < 1343037940 183619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the text next to the various connectors doesn't really help at all < 1343037948 592118 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is mostly just R for resistors and so on < 1343037989 649605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone wants to have a go at guessing I could make a high resolution scan of the ruler < 1343039265 45170 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The "ICD1" header in the other end could be some sort of a debugging/programming connector place. < 1343039438 975499 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then again, it could as well be something completely different.) < 1343039786 210279 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1343040259 530123 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt that matters < 1343040278 192533 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong window. :> < 1343040308 29003 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any(double(est_utt_gpu(:))==0); disp('Zero hats 1') -- I don't know why, but the nonsensicality of "Zero hats 1" made me smile. < 1343040342 149685 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1343040346 402675 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is that? < 1343040351 689459 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Matlab. < 1343040366 154827 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one place i worked had a line of code like < 1343040386 432529 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (n == 37698410) printf("shitter?? here???\n"); < 1343040430 35085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a similar test later on with, yes, "Zero hats 2" as the message. The "zero" part is obvious; the "hats" part is a bit more involved. < 1343040575 737700 :gushen!c91b88b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.27.136.184 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1343040649 820292 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, the hubble telescope is in a very low orbit < 1343040689 729107 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-48.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1343040839 917545 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you stand on the ground, does that count as an orbit? < 1343040845 751472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: Or, to be exact, it's Matlab with the "GPUmat" CUDA toolbox thingie; that explains the otherwise useless double(). < 1343040847 343711 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343040895 445485 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well Hubble is actually in the upper atmosphere. While stuff like GPS is several times further away: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comparison_satellite_navigation_orbits.svg < 1343040900 336515 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-48.elisa.ee PRIVMSG #esoteric :hienoa < 1343040900 645649 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm sure it's called VLGO (Very Low Geostationary Orbit) or something by professionals. < 1343040916 627927 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1343040939 460217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess that should be geosynchronous. < 1343040966 111085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since apparently geostationary means the special case of having the "correct" altitude. < 1343040972 834073 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343040994 246403 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, because you're at the wrong altitude for having the orbit you're having < 1343041019 217623 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and geostationary seems to be above-the-equator too. < 1343041031 861430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not an astrophysicist.) < 1343041055 900704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Maybe it counts as some sort of powered orbit. With luck, they'd make a seven-letter acronym for it. < 1343041120 493439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure someone would nitpick that it's not a real orbit if it doesn't, you know, orbit. < 1343041139 791205 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, be defined by gravity. < 1343041163 29342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is the only orbit that is geosynchronous due to friction < 1343041185 433904 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably?) < 1343041212 553900 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I think such a narrow definition would forbid sattelites from correcting their orbits < 1343041251 318031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, physics question: Does a helicopter-like object that only apply upwards force (no sideways force) on an ideal planet with no wind and so on stay over the same spot on the ground? < 1343041259 350434 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would it drift sideways < 1343041318 794411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your ideal planet rotating?-) (I'm not a physicist so I'm not going to try answering in any case.) < 1343041385 170602 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CAE9.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1343041456 789426 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343041469 292094 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the moon have satellites of its own? < 1343041498 291350 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too bad that they can't implement the original plan of bringing Hubble back to earth in the Space Shuttle and putting it in a museum < 1343041500 348786 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, do these satellites have satellites? < 1343041507 352697 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "2. a. Astron. The regularly repeated, typically elliptical course of a celestial object, satellite, spacecraft, etc., around a more massive body (as the sun, the earth, a star, or a planet) to which it is bound by gravity. Now also: one complete circuit made by an object around the orbited body." (OED) < 1343041509 855625 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes it is < 1343041512 713770 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be a waste of money, but it's still cool < 1343041527 561082 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what would happen if it wasn't rotating? < 1343041532 987956 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...were you already discussing this? < 1343041576 307198 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the psychics in the other #esoteric warned us this topic was coming up < 1343041622 183710 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : does the moon have satellites of its own? <-- maybe some debris or so? Nothing of importance though < 1343041629 487334 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome mailanmuoto < 1343041636 455513 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo, ...? < 1343041638 796006 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mailanmuoto: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1343041655 469821 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : does the moon have satellites of its own? < 1343041660 24089 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man-made ones, I think. < 1343041670 464923 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh? We placed satellites around it? < 1343041679 528091 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it certainly has in the past < 1343041709 931843 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there are any still there, but it's a lot harder to get an orbiting satellite to crash than to just leave it there so I assume they're still there. < 1343041731 972335 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a reference? < 1343041744 22059 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise, the masses and distances involved make it too unstable to support large natural satellites. < 1343041751 78864 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3-body problem and all that. < 1343041769 938440 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what we figured < 1343041777 483945 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :mailanmuoto, "we"? < 1343041784 548077 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an editorial we < 1343041792 773384 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh? < 1343041811 986514 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, googled that < 1343041813 447968 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343041832 647965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: All the five Lunar Orbiter satellites at least have crashed down, don't know about later ones. < 1343041853 202616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Lunar Orbiters were all eventually commanded to crash on the Moon before their attitude control fuel ran out so they would not present navigational or communications hazards to later Apollo flights." < 1343041859 560191 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1343041864 377501 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm well by "masses and distances involved" are you referring to the fact the earth is not sufficiently bigger than the moon or what? < 1343041871 529092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They haven't had that concern nowadays. < 1343041883 119875 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Reconnaissance_Orbiter < 1343041890 552673 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, LRO is obviously still there. < 1343041915 566929 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys are great, thanks < 1343041918 34295 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1343041921 641106 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mailanmuoto, well the Moon is stable more or less because the Sun is way more massive than the Earth and far, far further away. < 1343041921 805328 :mailanmuoto!50deecfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.222.236.250 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1343041929 194016 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit. < 1343041929 976073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In solar system timescales, though, you might not want to count all this blink-of-the-eye stuff. < 1343042043 631210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apollo11-LRO-March2012.jpg take that moon landing hoax people! (Of course that image is a fake too.) < 1343042399 892221 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just a bunch of pixels, holds no reality < 1343042548 950285 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just set that up later. < 1343042563 384990 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real moon landings were in 1936. < 1343042649 268757 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting aside the hoax question, i assume it is still considered impossible by many for humans to go to the moon < 1343042805 641043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, ? < 1343042816 208996 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i will reword < 1343042823 353622 :ogrom!~nask@gprs-inet-65-48.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: begone < 1343042852 115691 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume they think it's a hoax because they don't think humans can walk on the moon < 1343042874 141601 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that they still don't think humans can walk on the moon < 1343042932 87655 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1343042933 453133 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1343042933 777522 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume the only reason humans went at all is because the automation was not possible < 1343042975 551936 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because being trapped on the moon theer is noone who can save you < 1343042992 479190 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the political climate at the time I'm not sure they would have preferred automation < 1343043004 224158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the space race and so on < 1343043336 957978 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just strange, they did the whole thing only so they could say look what we did, and they managed to do it in such a way that a lot of people didn't believe they even did it < 1343043413 455199 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :russians sent few people to the orbit and they've never returned < 1343043479 731981 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343043494 381121 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: people just put together connections that don't exist. < 1343043499 146262 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically it. < 1343044389 21451 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: the number of people who don't believe it is tiny < 1343044403 719222 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a far out conspiracy theory which is widely mocked in mainstream US popular culture < 1343044420 780976 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga? < 1343044439 580322 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. have you heard of flat earth society < 1343044450 319452 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are mocked a lot, too. < 1343044457 454855 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: i think your assumption is false too < 1343044471 178884 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the conspiracy theorists consder a moon landing to be physically impossible < 1343044475 320708 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all of them < 1343044479 716330 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why you are assuming that < 1343044479 867651 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1343044483 625362 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there some hollow earth conspiracy thing too? < 1343044487 679203 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. < 1343044489 620083 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't understand why you assume all of the wrong things you do < 1343044514 698601 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343044536 929583 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, it is infact stupid to send humans to the moon for the sheer bravado of it < 1343044558 559220 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i've met a guy who's totally convinced that the earth is hollow < 1343044563 757283 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for the moon < 1343044586 383636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grumble grumble "Error using *: Inner matrix dimensions must agree. -- in [absurdly complicated expression involving several instances of *]" I suppose it would just *kill* you to, I don't know, underline the bad operands or something. < 1343044595 442684 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what really? < 1343044601 354300 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why? And how? < 1343044603 382712 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the reason they think things like this is a lack of evidence < 1343044611 69874 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: no < 1343044613 886397 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is no pictures of the center of the earth < 1343044619 981526 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1343044620 245513 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the center of the moon < 1343044620 792098 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judica-Cordiglia_brothers < 1343044624 247834 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not understand anything < 1343044630 922123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, matlab? < 1343044655 182485 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yeah those are not really more credible than the moon landing hoax people < 1343044659 544272 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, soundnfury was saying pythagorus probably didn't exist < 1343044659 985542 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's less evidence to the contrary as well < 1343044665 770438 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't make the conspiracy theory more credible < 1343044667 162553 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343044673 568379 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess you might want to copy out parts and try those separately? Doing a binary search on the expression basically < 1343044682 577194 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to be fair people did say not so fast < 1343044687 399733 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: people who believe crazy things typically hold onto their beliefs despite an abundance of evidence to the contrary < 1343044696 430661 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, the reason they think things like this is a lack of evidence < 1343044698 834247 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1343044711 686403 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hollow earth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth < 1343044714 449945 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no no no no no < 1343044731 565519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The GUI desktop at least has (in debug mode) a tooltip which gives dimensions, so I could just point the mouse at them. < 1343044754 297756 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that works too < 1343044761 715415 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this piece of code, everything is always a transpose of what I'd expect. < 1343044767 428264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1343044778 692915 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what are you doing btw? < 1343044817 551334 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: sometimes talking to you is physically painful < 1343044817 921957 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it's A*B*C^T, and other times it's C*B^T*A^T and it takes slices the other way around, which is obviously the same thing, but not so clearly noticeable. < 1343044835 410763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make sense out of this matrix deconvolution code we have. < 1343044841 81799 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i am merely lost in 2012. < 1343044852 287473 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1343045155 196489 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the BBC website has said "MOJANG IS SUED! So's a bunch of small companies, like EA, Gameloft and Square Enix, but nobody cares about them" < 1343045285 517719 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidental pet peculiarity: Matlab ' operator does the conjugate transpose, while the .' operator does a regular transpose; for a real matrix it's of course the same thing, but I'm still tempted to use the uglier-looking .' for some unfathomable reason, even though A' is the idiomatic way of getting transpose of A if A is known to be real. < 1343045286 809428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, ? < 1343045289 973852 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, when? < 1343045299 734306 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much just now < 1343045305 874808 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18953828 < 1343045314 361833 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : itidus21: sometimes talking to you is physically painful <-- same for zzo < 1343045316 8307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a day or two already. Since the news, I mean, not sure about the BBC. < 1343045345 51533 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, BBC's quite slow sometimes, especially with tech < 1343045349 427738 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good for UK politics < 1343045377 627903 :asiekierka!~asiekierk@078088172191.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1343045378 834726 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343045379 161968 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343045379 391025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343045379 558935 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343045379 713363 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343045379 892273 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343045388 121812 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1343045413 795203 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343045413 950665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1343045413 950824 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1343045413 950903 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1343045413 950980 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1343045415 619984 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343045483 506811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : I like how the BBC website has said "MOJANG IS SUED! So's a bunch of small companies, like EA, Gameloft and Square Enix, but nobody cares about them" <-- can't find that quote on the page you linked < 1343045492 931347 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was paraphrasing < 1343045495 371336 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343045499 427829 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1343045499 821009 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mojang is one of ten companies, including Electronic Arts, GameLoft and Square Enix, that have been named in the lawsuit." < 1343045504 463760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343045510 547887 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lawsuit < 1343045525 166770 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, re "everything is always a transpose", one of the involved matrices is square, which is even worse, since at least for the others it's obvious is they are used in a wrong way. < 1343045540 962233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/is they/if they/ < 1343045557 382509 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, you can't confirm login details by communicating with a server if you have a SIM card plugged in < 1343045669 726120 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1343045689 49194 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1343045737 689374 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, huh < 1343045744 493174 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid patents < 1343046009 301268 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8 < 1343046095 613647 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343046096 131178 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343046096 469595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343046096 625637 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343046096 777247 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343046096 932932 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1343046104 776008 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343046120 775906 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343046152 51163 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343046152 202645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1343046152 202785 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1343046152 202863 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1343046152 202939 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1343046191 505509 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what? < 1343046204 414689 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know either < 1343046215 883528 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm writing a mobile game at the moment < 1343046275 221283 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents... < 1343046302 728290 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1343046316 177725 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecialy software patents < 1343046329 196806 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't let anyone in East Texas buy it < 1343046385 472226 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1343046393 754186 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate this < 1343046479 40161 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write to that guy who was in that election a few months ago < 1343046490 338280 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write to Santa Claus. < 1343046500 178157 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRITE TO TOM CRUISE < 1343046524 486533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tom Cruise says it's such an incredible feeling when you know you can help people. < 1343046530 5245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that, anyway. < 1343046548 276919 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T LET HIM GIVE YOU A PERSONALITY TEST, THOUGH < 1343046557 912293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, don't sell it outside EU? < 1343046580 568942 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343046607 6449 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about 'calling home' to verify the copy < 1343046641 991180 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :since my game is freemium < 1343046656 239240 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is the general amount of fuck that i give < 1343046668 532219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have in-app purchases? You know those are patented too. < 1343046686 779100 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghh < 1343046688 277547 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't google provide an API to verify against Google Play < 1343046688 429018 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did the Lodsys thing reach some sort of a conclusion yet? < 1343046692 822946 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember they do < 1343046693 783185 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :my lawyer will sort that out < 1343046712 871243 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You got sued? < 1343046715 855804 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, what platform is your mobile game for? < 1343046720 819075 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOS < 1343046722 438415 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what sort of game is it? < 1343046734 333059 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, scrap the second question, iOS is not interesting to me < 1343046737 933283 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :massively multiplayer puzzle < 1343046738 611161 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1343046760 550250 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in a thousand years will I buy an iOS device < 1343046790 938331 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could buy iPhone 2G just to install iDroid on it < 1343046817 336720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lodsys IIRC sued a huge pile of small iOS developers for using the Apple-provided in-app purchase API. I forget exactly if that got resolved, though. < 1343046826 75435 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, I would suggest that a dedicated Android product is better < 1343046871 134896 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but with that I couldn't troll both sides iOs vs. Android battle < 1343046917 353745 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, XD < 1343046938 940799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What number have they reached in iPhones now? Is there a 5? < 1343047048 973223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just 4S. < 1343047170 24080 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even have an iphone < 1343047199 769618 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use HTC Desire HD ;d < 1343047501 17110 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1343047518 178648 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is he making an iOS game... < 1343047559 892772 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1343047806 640108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Perhaps that's where the money is. < 1343047813 184879 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343047983 404536 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: yeah, well, shachaf doesn't even have a television < 1343048005 805389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : i use HTC Desire HD ;d so why is he making an iOS game... < 1343048342 218757 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1343048349 879769 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :iOS users are more willing to pay < 1343048356 882645 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, I guessed the right. < 1343048357 44970 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some useless crap < 1343048375 734468 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will help them to cheat and earn more points to buy useless crap < 1343048375 923785 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: To add one point to the earlier CGA discussion, there's the cute trick with the composite TV output, where suitable pixel patterns produce colors when decoded by a NTSC TV. See http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/KQ_CompVsRGB.png -- left side is the regular monitor view, right side is the TV view; and top row has the game in "composite mode", bottom row in "RGB mode". < 1343048425 454774 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't have a TV < 1343048433 138775 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :TV is useless and annoying < 1343048441 300182 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then there are PAL TVs... < 1343048454 580200 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-48.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1343048484 730549 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343048523 951245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And SECAM TVs, if you want to go that far. < 1343048538 201402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if those are possible to misuse the same way. Maybe not. < 1343048803 524407 :Slereah_!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-243-254.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1343048949 185363 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice < 1343048959 577879 :Slereah!~jackal@ANantes-259-1-250-207.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1343048978 922777 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, how can you test it without an iOS device though? < 1343048982 36510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I have personally ever seen a CGA card hooked to a television. < 1343048987 321277 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean emulators are all fine and so on < 1343048997 590029 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how is OpenGL performance in those? < 1343048998 59171 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: test what? < 1343049000 998928 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, the game < 1343049004 684641 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you are developing < 1343049011 760721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err nooga I meant < 1343049015 873104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :misshighlight < 1343049031 741307 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ^ < 1343049040 126204 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i've got an ipad < 1343049041 776079 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: In case you didn't know, you're now developing an iOS game. Sorry about that. < 1343049042 264454 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1343049044 221869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, ah okay < 1343049056 369067 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of my friends have iphone < 1343049063 510382 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the teammates < 1343049063 903619 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type "no", and I have it set to order by "spoke last" < 1343049070 549659 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one of you need to change nick < 1343049102 61705 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1343049141 573216 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ios emulator is just a sandbox that shares running kernel with the host OS X < 1343049165 708531 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unusual rain outside. Very very fine drops. But a lot of them. It is like if someone would be using a "fine fog" nozzle kind of thing < 1343049166 495308 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the performance is near to native < 1343049183 298868 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, isn't iOS ARM and normal macs x86? < 1343049192 59931 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? < 1343049199 537549 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unlike for android they don't run bytecode < 1343049203 718067 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel is the same < 1343049204 127217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but native code < 1343049210 465141 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, sure, but binary is not? < 1343049211 665789 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8 < 1343049240 979909 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ios emulator runs the compiler to produce native code < 1343049241 477384 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get different code for different targets < 1343049244 994917 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1343049265 713176 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but android emulator just has an arm emulator < 1343049278 205765 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :emulator translator something whatever < 1343049282 325527 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, or x86. Remember there are Atom based Android devices < 1343049282 798372 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the kerner, shell and libs are the same on both targets < 1343049289 432653 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343049290 885862 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel < 1343049296 530469 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it can use kvm < 1343049296 682037 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the kerner < 1343049297 655974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :KERNAL. < 1343049299 415031 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1343049310 334901 :kmc!~keegan@c-65-96-1-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1343049322 268558 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, anyway there are some issues with that approach, like if you have inline asm < 1343049340 519396 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if not, there could be various differences between the platforms < 1343049351 568148 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :its apple < 1343049355 315811 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :KERNAL is pretty strange name for a OS < 1343049356 490243 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's < 1343049368 376844 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, and? < 1343049396 477683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's some documentary text about the kernel: "Teh kernal si a VARY IMPORTANT part of teh computar and you have to be SUPA 733t to hax0r teh kernal it si vary hard and there are MANY GUNS PROTECTING THE KERNAL!! ITs not loke Kernal Clink tho he was stoopid Hogan gots away frum him all teh time THE TUNNEL IS UNDER TEH BED U IDIAT!!" < 1343049413 381825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's from a rinkworks.com movie review of Hackers.) < 1343049463 44998 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what sort of site is that < 1343049474 883755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A humour site. < 1343049477 165734 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343049480 17402 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: dafug < 1343049487 552607 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I find it unreadable < 1343049495 385977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: http://www.rinkworks.com/badmovie/m/hackers.1995.shtml (The other reviews are not quite like that.) < 1343049539 522474 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used their fantasy name generator for Diablo 2 character names. < 1343049543 702626 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and they don't give a f.. about hardware that they didn't make < 1343049549 223195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly for other character names too. < 1343049557 535825 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343049571 347126 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they do only small set of devices with really good support and programming system < 1343049580 514916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also have that CGI adventure game thing at rinkworks, but I've never gotten into that. < 1343049617 601865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, indeed, but there could still be subtle differences between the emulator and the hardware < 1343049618 145297 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure if someone tried inline asm in an iphone app < 1343049623 713329 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :there probably are < 1343049626 962742 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1343049635 990617 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :how llvm will handle this < 1343049664 610982 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, I'm sure there are in some system headers < 1343049678 989973 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all the glibc headers have macros defined to asm sequences for some stuff < 1343049760 829660 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, anyway there are obviously some differences. Like multi touch not existing on the screen of the mac < 1343049774 799922 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there being no gyro in the mac (I guess?) < 1343049799 338014 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the emulator simulates that < 1343049815 345217 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, oh and don't forget another difference: the mac has a much stronger processor. Algorithms that run fine on the mac might run too slow to be usable on a real device < 1343049816 465353 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some faux drivers that you can control < 1343049826 585654 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343049836 237469 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm < 1343049854 280384 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well that depends on the mac < 1343049854 866108 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i think that the ipad 3 is stronger than my mbp when it comes to graphics and multimedia < 1343049872 949638 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, sure, the point is that they don't match however < 1343049873 814453 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it has this retina display which is really really hi-res < 1343049896 780163 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your macbook does not. So pixel graphics are going to be suboptimal on one of those < 1343049937 484586 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :a parallel extension of the C programming language that supports efficient access to a global address space on current distributed memory multiprocessors. It retains the "small language" character of C and supports careful engineering and optimization of programs by providing a simple, predictable cost model. < 1343049941 340264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, anyway did inline asm work? < 1343049944 278475 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't aware that C was a "small language" < 1343049967 937877 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Perhaps it's in contrast with, say, C++. < 1343049968 722555 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, compared to some other languages I guess it is < 1343049979 708287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you could characterize as a hulking monster of a language. < 1343049991 728290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard library is much less complete than Haskell's for example < 1343050036 974430 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/238010/how-do-i-do-inline-assembly-on-the-iphone < 1343050050 926150 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: it's small < 1343050064 130389 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, right, __asm__ makes perfect sense in GCC context < 1343050070 479570 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use -std=c99 or such < 1343050097 753780 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhum, and you use Objective-C < 1343050108 598575 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, whatever -std that has < 1343050126 414663 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1343050147 890851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone somewhere suggested that a future 64-bit ARM could have an optional 64-bits-wide instruction set, and that could be called "Leg mode". < 1343050150 380539 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: given all the weird standardization corner cases that come up I feel as though "small" is not the right word for C. Maybe small in core language features, but small in terms of minor (usually unnoticed) technical details. < 1343050164 442290 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but not small < 1343050172 752065 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is going to be called Arch64 iirc < 1343050173 633297 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ooh, that might have been me < 1343050182 21268 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean, 64-bit ARM is already in the works < 1343050183 540272 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I stole it from somewhere else < 1343050184 33528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Very possible. < 1343050201 265168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The architecture, sure, but I don't think they were planning to have 64-bit-wide opcodes in it, were they? < 1343050208 325738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh, right < 1343050214 38943 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 32 bit I think < 1343050219 259031 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no Thumb style mode < 1343050227 466802 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for running legacy code) < 1343050259 477488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they could go for a thing with a Thumb, an Arm, and a Leg. And then a VLIW-style "Torso" mode, and some 8-bit bytecode thing called Pinky. < 1343050274 668138 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: you crazy? of course C is small < 1343050300 619651 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, not compared to asm < 1343050306 228195 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's physically possible to read N1256 (the C99 draft) and understand it < 1343050310 952215 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: depends which asm :p < 1343050318 989520 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should just bite the bullet and switch to a variable-length instruction encoding ... unless every instruction is equally probable, I think any fixed-size encoding will be worse than a variable-length one < 1343050345 49556 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: costs chip real estate, and makes things harder for the scheduler if there is one < 1343050346 296105 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, anyway what was that parallel extension? OpenMP? < 1343050351 870669 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Split-C < 1343050356 147529 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, PIC12* < 1343050359 404033 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1343050396 347691 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, fixed size one simplifies pipeline design and so on < 1343050403 167605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cache handling < 1343050408 365220 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah, that's just "worse" if your only metric is "number of bits per instruction". < 1343050425 298545 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :on x86, you have to worry about instructions crossing cache line boundaries < 1343050426 589682 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, that was thinking only about program size < 1343050429 217144 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PIC16 seems pretty good < 1343050456 516229 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1343050532 831300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, what's NEON short for? < 1343050553 169426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nothing. < 1343050558 991107 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :new extended on-chip new-stuff < 1343050572 790219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do spell it consistently all-uppercase. < 1343050580 89574 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1343050612 158714 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it stands for, it'll be better than SSSSE7 or whatever the newest x86 stuff is < 1343050632 193179 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: PIC? Yeucccccch! < 1343050646 208972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, :D < 1343050647 361050 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero < 1343050651 687391 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, glad that you feel that way < 1343050657 377988 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: would SSSSE7 be I7 or E11? < 1343050658 780126 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, what about AVR? < 1343050662 741611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't do bad < 1343050670 795447 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't used AVR actually < 1343050681 862084 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from left/right shifts only are available in "shift one step" variants < 1343050686 698425 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on the model I used < 1343050687 993441 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's favourite chip is Z80
< 1343050718 319428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :never coded for that < 1343050725 792428 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :used it, sure, my calculator has one of those in it < 1343050728 885154 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: does it have stack that can grow withous limitations? < 1343050744 10274 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI83 has a Z80 processor I think < 1343050745 690951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I'm not sure if it has gone further than Supplemental Streaming SIMD Extensions 3 yet. < 1343050749 791758 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: re NTSC (and PAL) luma-chroma interference, this effect was also able to be produced on the ZX Spectrum. My emulator (Spiffy) emulates this effect. < 1343050753 99733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, yes < 1343050758 264037 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, 83+ at least < 1343050760 648642 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I have < 1343050765 626845 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here < 1343050767 946573 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: yes, because the stack is just in RAM < 1343050778 473586 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the TI-(83-86) ones do. < 1343050788 403704 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, uh, my desktop dues SSE4.2 or something iirc < 1343050793 955101 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Z80 does not have onboard memory (except for general purpose registers) - it's a CPU, not a microcontroller < 1343050801 409745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, but I mean in number of S's. < 1343050812 446079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is an SSSE? < 1343050817 741381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. SSSE3. < 1343050824 899123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what did the extra S stand for? < 1343050827 142702 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: I know. but for example 6502 restricted stack size to 256 bytes. can I load random values to SP with it? < 1343050836 437671 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's often used as one by tying it to SRAM < 1343050836 750127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Supplemental, like I just said. < 1343050848 430393 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: sure, SP can hold any 16-bit value < 1343050857 333767 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even an odd number if you're crazy < 1343050863 799395 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343050872 289921 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: are there any new z80 processors produced? < 1343050882 710664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I don't think they are going for more "SSE" currently. What with AVX and so on < 1343050894 528721 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD is going for further SSEs though? < 1343050903 594465 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I'm not sure. But you can still get 'em from Farnell, the price for 1 is pennies < 1343050929 394221 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: they have the built in DRAM refresher? < 1343050954 890252 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1343050958 327215 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the R register < 1343050971 70884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, that is a control register? < 1343050990 4122 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAM refresh is performed in the 3rd and 4th T-states of the M1 cycle (opcode fetch) < 1343050991 823009 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. well that sounds good. I might build computer around z80 < 1343051001 351252 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is that price for one in bulk? < 1343051007 61050 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even buy them separately? < 1343051016 853192 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's the price for one singly < 1343051021 629158 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bulk they'd be cheaper < 1343051045 662649 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there also exist, btw, binary-compatible updated versions, the Z380 and eZ80 < 1343051060 970273 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I know nothing about them except what it says on Wikipedia about them < 1343051061 160732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought ten when visiting an electronics supply store once, just because. Haven't used them for anything. < 1343051068 426158 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The eZ80 is fancily kinda-sorta 24-bit. < 1343051145 488298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1343051156 37402 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how is that "kinda sorta"? < 1343051168 550717 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the R register (8 bits) can be set with LD R,A. On every opcode fetch, while the instruction is being decoded, the Z80 pulls /MREQ and /RFSH low (but not /RD or /WR), places {I,R} on the address bus, and increments R (except that the high bit of R is not changed) < 1343051188 438164 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I is the 8-bit Interrupt Vector register) < 1343051218 867488 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1343051229 472457 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, why the counter functionality? < 1343051256 153972 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also do you mean this only happens while "LD R,A" is being decoded? < 1343051276 207044 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1343051290 639900 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, also what stops this refreshing from going on when you are done with it? < 1343051306 565054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's incremented at every opcode fetch. < 1343051310 819685 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1343051324 93869 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was "the instruction" that confused me < 1343051343 475999 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it meant that specific one and that seemed strange < 1343051358 161460 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so right, I guess you need to refresh it line by line < 1343051360 45873 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1343051372 833165 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't say what stops it from doing this refreshing < 1343051386 20760 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you meant to refresh all the time? < 1343051392 38827 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the CPU that slow? < 1343051456 738930 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :at what sizes does DRAM become more cost effective than SRAM? < 1343051464 970576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They run usually at single-digit megahertz speeds. < 1343051479 625764 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a new Z80 is typically clocked at 20MHz these days < 1343051483 934582 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, hm < 1343051495 132247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fast. < 1343051499 990500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, so does that mean you have to continuously refresh the connected DRAM? < 1343051500 268127 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when first designed, in '76, it was more likely to be 4MHz < 1343051500 419180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The TI-86 one runs at six. < 1343051517 573123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, because you didn't mention any flag that would turn off this refresh behaviour < 1343051529 574143 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be preferred if you were using SRAM obviously < 1343051535 68975 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's nothing to turn it off < 1343051547 167500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so it is refreshing all the time then < 1343051547 982615 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1343051549 71343 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otoh you can just not connect /RFSH to your RAM < 1343051554 206574 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343051556 418333 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make /RFSH inhibit /MREQ < 1343051583 215035 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have used values of R as pseudorandomness source, even though it's obviously not very random. I think bef86 uses it for ?. < 1343051599 739102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's random-ish if you're not executing anything too predictable. < 1343051605 66966 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is the upper bit untouched < 1343051610 939811 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the address bus only 15 bits? < 1343051614 326598 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1343051638 728791 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, then why is MSB untouched? < 1343051650 227733 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, 7 bits < 1343051651 601725 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the assumption was that if people were using DRAM it would be in units that needed 7 bits to refresh < 1343051659 49056 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1343051662 758261 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason < 1343051664 737441 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1343051671 880014 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask 1976 to explain it < 1343051731 154929 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Z80 is almost 40 years old then < 1343051808 222577 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You haven't heard of the Z80? < 1343051818 535264 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure I have? < 1343051833 539228 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just didn't know exactly when it was first invented < 1343051849 780455 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ZiLOG Application Notes are available describing how the Z80 CPU is interfaced with most popular dynamic RAM", to quote the manual. You could look at those. < 1343051890 762809 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an x86 question. During boot, during BIOS/EFI, the RAM modules have not yet been started right? That is one of the things that BIOS/EFI does. So what does those early stages of BIOS/EFI use for memory? < 1343051906 454490 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1343051935 189667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible they made the top bit not be affected by the counter (but stay as whatever you loaded to it) so that you'd have a useful toggleable one-bit value available on the address bus at refresh time. Not that I know what it could be useful for. < 1343051988 18407 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a few KB of ram on the north bridge or such? < 1343051989 762162 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1343052038 209104 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if yes, is that RAM available to the OS after the boot? < 1343052084 933310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possibly the very earliest instructions use registers only? Not that I've disassembled any BIOSi. < 1343052091 297002 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343052094 917761 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that could work < 1343052107 903816 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you are in 16-bit real mode then, not a lot of registers around < 1343052127 677532 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to load memory configuration from CMOS and what not < 1343052171 390560 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could just as well have some memory on the chipset, the chipset initialization is of course chipset-specific in any case. < 1343052212 625959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: All the animals with appendages are bilaterians. <-- um starfish have 5 appendages. < 1343052248 367829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do recall something somewhere about not using subroutine calls in early BIOS code because there's no RAM available to point the stack at. < 1343052258 62067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fivefold symmetry < 1343052260 774130 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1343052298 595710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could look at coreboot code, I suppose. :p < 1343052301 462572 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm is the BIOS a nor-flash then so that it is byte addressable? < 1343052311 714308 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it must be < 1343052356 865964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you they're not exactly known for fast movement < 1343052357 17169 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1343052397 865319 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So what's the current record for the starfish 100-metre run these days? < 1343052413 926627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't kept track, sorry < 1343052441 379627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Most starfish cannot move quickly. However, some burrowing species from the genera Astropecten and Luidia are capable of rapid, creeping motion, "gliding" across the ocean floor[citation needed], which results from their pointed tubefeet adapted specially for excavating patches of sand.[citation needed]" < 1343052448 241043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite some citation neededness. < 1343052458 743889 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 100/0.15 < 1343052460 61323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 666.6666666666667 < 1343052471 907145 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's... a bit over eleven hours. < 1343052483 197668 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the speed from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_speed_of_a_starfish < 1343052497 554806 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an evil speed < 1343052512 634752 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, time < 1343052580 999108 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1343052581 918411 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed of starfish: "Input interpretation: [ sea stars | maximum speed on land ]" < 1343052588 304177 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lol < 1343052590 691067 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bbl < 1343052597 100461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Claims it's just 0.96 cm/min. < 1343052599 939552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's on land. < 1343052604 313712 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sea stars??? who calls them sea stars < 1343052616 548064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :W|A does. < 1343052642 421870 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK so wait are we talking about the land or water 100m. < 1343052653 323666 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"100 metres / speed of starfish" gives... uh, 0.01292 seconds. Because this time it interpreted it as "StarAD | average orbit velocity". < 1343052676 697213 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star...AD? < 1343052683 999772 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, a satellite. < 1343052694 558636 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does wiki.answers.com answer the question why "Computer Science" is under technology rather than under "Science"? < 1343052707 803851 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not a science? < 1343052720 88918 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why does it say "Computer Science" < 1343052731 845607 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it has a misleading name. < 1343052739 611921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the weirdest. If I just use "speed of starfish", it'll go "Assuming "starfish" is a species specification | Use as a spacecraft instead", but in the "100 metres /" version it goes for the spacecraft and doesn't give the disambiguation option. < 1343052757 623798 :pikhq_!~pikhq@71-34-146-176.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1343052762 854288 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-22-149-76.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343052763 70162 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use as a spacecraft instead" should be available as an option more often < 1343052773 997023 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"100 metres / sea stars maximum speed on land" does produce a result of 170 hours. < 1343052775 319645 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in general < 1343052812 230384 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine, if you will, a world in which every object has a dual function as a spacecraft < 1343052813 130151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"100 metres / sea stars maximum speed in sea" produces 5.4*10^-8 %h (mass percent hours). < 1343052823 843815 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: indeed! < 1343052846 533544 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, the coffee brewer power button would have off/on/spacecraft instead of just off/on < 1343052856 129990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: try adding "species" somewhere? < 1343052859 130569 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe spacecraft/off/on < 1343052860 297320 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one felt like going for a ride around mars over breakfast one need look no further than one's toaster < 1343052864 563198 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also one's kettle obviously < 1343052880 195020 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but getting coffee *and* space travel at the same time seems pretty useful < 1343052887 12516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I already got it with the "sea stars maximum speed on land" thing. < 1343052899 512866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well they're sea creatures, duh < 1343052916 209819 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even if they can presumably survive for a while out of it) < 1343052922 203608 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't have to pretend pencils are rocket ships, they actually would be! < 1343052937 941753 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(please tell me i'm not the only one who pretends pencils are rocket ships) < 1343052938 246286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well, as I mentioned, in sea the 100-metre float happens to take 5.4*10^-8 mass percent hours. < 1343052950 799204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1343052958 308184 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343052959 757543 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :are spacecrafts also equipped with the spacecraft mode? < 1343052965 227537 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be an important feature for them to have. < 1343052968 889794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The input interpretation for that is (100 metres / [sea stars | maximum speed on land]) * [elements | ocean abundance]. < 1343053003 698055 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, it's "maximum speed in the water" that it wants. < 1343053022 937571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Result: (insufficient data available). Grr. < 1343053027 230881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1343053030 818582 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of singularity is this, anyway. < 1343053032 611902 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly this is the future of computation < 1343053033 651491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSUFFICIENT SCIENCE < 1343053072 861049 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with oerjan < 1343053082 536149 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on everything ever) < 1343053131 815921 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you agree with oerjan that quintopia is stupid and bad and smel sfuny < 1343053160 79595 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that what you truly believe? < 1343053171 463125 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: no, but spacecraft must have coffee making functionality < 1343053179 633894 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. < 1343053185 697699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not, i have _no_ opinion on your smell whatsoever < 1343053207 389548 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, as oerjan has no nose < 1343053209 247994 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1343053216 790209 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes i agree with oerjan :P < 1343053248 284907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's Gregor who has no nose. pay attention. < 1343053276 374301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i don't have is a quintopia smell sample < 1343053281 167270 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a nose silly. what do you think holds up his AR glasses? < 1343053285 159134 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : "100 metres / sea stars maximum speed in sea" produces 5.4*10^-8 %h (mass percent hours). <-- wtf is "mass percent hour"? < 1343053289 123852 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :insufficient science. < 1343053290 857989 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises that a google image search of Gregor will not in fact result in images of Gregor
< 1343053296 626209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's AR? < 1343053303 53003 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :augmented reality < 1343053314 288389 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they arent really that < 1343053319 780422 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.aiwaz.net/uploads/gallery/gregor-baci-1292-mid.jpg is the second hit FWIW) < 1343053322 336088 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they could be! someday! < 1343053326 191569 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: try adding "richards" hth < 1343053328 449320 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: have you tried Roger G? I'm almost certain this is his alternate alias. < 1343053338 392027 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1343053341 27331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but beware of the foot < 1343053346 873328 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : (please tell me i'm not the only one who pretends pencils are rocket ships) <-- I don't pretend that, maybe other people do though, who knows < 1343053355 267189 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.purdue.edu/people/images/graduate_students/gkrichar.jpg < 1343053361 65903 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, NOTE THE NOSE < 1343053375 589346 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if Gregor has a nose it stands to reason you do not < 1343053376 3007 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has nosagnosia < 1343053394 348125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: obviously photoshopped, you can tell by the pixels < 1343053407 828073 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, i think not, my nociceptors are highly reliable < 1343053413 170526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1343053425 616634 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do pain sensors have to do with noses? < 1343053437 389985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats quintopia -----###
< 1343053441 431673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T RUIN THE JOKE < 1343053452 367995 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt. it was Phantom_Hoover < 1343053465 786357 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, i think not, my nociceptors are highly reliable <-- your what? < 1343053466 273568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't know, but the unit conversions table says 5.4e-8 %h is the same as 1.937 microseconds, or 1.937e-6 megajoules per megavolt ampere, or 1.937e-6 megaohm microfahrads, or 1.937 kilograms per meter second megapascal. If that helps. < 1343053475 758498 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1343053478 378811 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nociceptors detect noces you idiots < 1343053485 9489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noce < 1343053487 366991 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343053493 874765 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so it doesn't work on noses then < 1343053510 309226 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :noce feratu < 1343053511 386332 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're homophone-insensitive < 1343053516 90340 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is one fast starfish then < 1343053527 809227 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.937 µs to move 100 meters? < 1343053528 277984 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1343053530 871931 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1343053566 82298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though I often use kilograms per meter second megapascals when talking about seconds, it feels more natural that way. < 1343053567 766688 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway those are some crazy units in general, apart from the microseconds < 1343053588 319124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what is the definition of pascal? < 1343053588 931600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: now i'm imagining a nose with fangs < 1343053601 314032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and glasses, for some reason < 1343053602 442629 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, kg/m^2 < 1343053605 197912 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaah < 1343053612 556803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that explains how it works then < 1343053624 607266 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just cancel each other < 1343053633 708661 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink attoparsec / nanofortnight < 1343053636 901747 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually arent nerve endings solely responsible for nociception? < 1343053644 685076 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: N/m^2. Or kg/(m*s^2). < 1343053645 441978 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can do lots of other stuff too < 1343053645 876013 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm not sure how you get from 5.4e-8 %h to 1.937 microseconds though < 1343053647 8644 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :25.509900639101595185 m s^-1 (velocity) < 1343053648 983964 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know < 1343053658 178002 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dammit. < 1343053670 394153 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION physics seppuku
< 1343053689 835293 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where did the "mass" bit of "mass percent hour" go btw? < 1343053694 338121 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it in the unit < 1343053699 379236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suppose "mass percent" is maybe dimensionless. < 1343053704 797833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's just, you know, a percentage. < 1343053713 829865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1343053715 229854 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "mass percent hours" is still time. < 1343053716 590558 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it is. < 1343053719 757349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a nonsensical time. < 1343053723 574158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then that is easy enough to get to seconds < 1343053735 35099 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait yes it is. < 1343053736 539290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so a percent hour is 1/100 of an hour < 1343053746 829655 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it could be a constant factor. < 1343053762 715279 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, what Vorpal said. < 1343053782 632158 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I agree with "mass percent" being dimensionless though < 1343053801 569755 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't there be N involved somehow? < 1343053809 852884 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you start with "mass percent hours" and end up with "seconds", "mass percent" can't really be anything else than 1. < 1343053815 970385 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mass/mass, so no. < 1343053820 769924 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1343053836 197599 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was microseconds though < 1343053843 748221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still time. < 1343053852 130738 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343053880 666000 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pressing "details" reveals that it's doing (100 m)/(5.8e-4 km/h)*(3.1e-10 %). < 1343053883 7164 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#quit < 1343053883 232608 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: oonbotti < 1343053915 880602 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I hated most about physics and chemistry in high school? The unit conversions. < 1343053924 703363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1e-10% being the median abundance of different chemical elements in the ocean, based on 110 values. < 1343053934 117665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :W|A is so creative. < 1343053952 613081 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1343053956 509767 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, what unit conversions? < 1343053989 540103 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh, kg or mg or to g to make a certain formula work, values given in minutes having to be turned into seconds < 1343053990 853652 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1343054002 538595 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right. < 1343054018 406455 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone added "in sea" to a query, *my* first reaction wouldn't have been to go fetch a table of chemical element abundance, and then take the median of all 110 entries. < 1343054020 502704 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mostly only did that in chemistry; physics only really does km/m. < 1343054042 104894 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1343054045 645953 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, speaking of chemistry: mole. Don't like that one bit < 1343054055 581652 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moles are easy! < 1343054058 166447 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1343054066 15540 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, median? Not average? < 1343054067 204017 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're docile and sweet. < 1343054078 391355 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, right, what do you call the unit in English < 1343054081 65803 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mol" in Swedish < 1343054083 478707 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moles. < 1343054085 55001 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you added an e < 1343054085 987079 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343054092 974124 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, so what I said then < 1343054094 684506 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unit is still mol. < 1343054100 84783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Median is *an* average, if you ask some people. But median, not the mean, yes. < 1343054119 74290 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right, but the function to compute the mean is often called "avg" or such in software < 1343054157 386228 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :0908 0703 < 1343054157 615241 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my calculator does that too < 1343054173 960445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no it doesn't < 1343054224 157657 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343054227 185885 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, why is it that computer based calculators are inferior do using a TI-83+ even when you want to use the value on the computer. Like if I'm chatting in IRC and need to calculate something, I'd much rather use my graph calculator than run a calculator program on the computer < 1343054242 549589 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if I have to retype the values rather than copy them < 1343054242 732782 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1343054253 739586 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1343054264 419007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that computer based calculator programs are clunkier < 1343054271 178591 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why that is, I don't know < 1343054273 148865 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather use a CAS TbH, but calculators are much more ergonomic. < 1343054288 501228 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the ultimate nerd works on calculator programs < 1343054292 704330 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure I'd use a CAS if the problem is complex enough < 1343054294 982918 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather use dc than my early nineties scientific calculator that can compute tanget of 90 degrees < 1343054303 550507 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, I written a few programs in TI-BASIC < 1343054303 919712 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not HCI nerds < 1343054316 568859 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1343054332 803395 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually just run a quick bc, and feel ashamed I didn't use dc like a real man would have. < 1343054340 483710 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, so I'm guessing you've never used dc for... anything beyond basic arithmetic? < 1343054351 288662 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: no. ultimate nerds run unix on their calculators < 1343054354 790742 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, I once learned dc and wrote an increadibly complex bit of one-liner in it. Then I came back a few weeks later and went "wtf" < 1343054367 603444 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why do you think so? < 1343054388 257716 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, um let's see: no trig, no logs. < 1343054412 510861 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use mathematica, it's comparable to eating caviar with a toothpick < 1343054420 586506 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah using a TI-83+ is just easier than messing around with something like the gnome calculator or what not < 1343054434 145540 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used Mathematica but then I couldn't get the keygen to work < 1343054448 630814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually use Octave quite asily, too. I don't know what the equivalent analogue would be. < 1343054453 21580 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnome is what happens when HCI nerds decide to screw everything and troll their users < 1343054454 806286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/as/eas/ < 1343054456 759322 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't count < 1343054470 782047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have mathematica installed. I use it when my TI-83+ can't do the job < 1343054485 249276 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, well the same thing applies to the windows calculator < 1343054490 574143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I go to Octave when bc can't do the job. :p < 1343054492 366418 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the KDE 3 one < 1343054494 682232 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc is my favourite UNIX esolang. < 1343054504 213503 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(m4 is my second-favourite.) < 1343054505 930727 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they troll users by imitating Windows < 1343054510 106254 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use frink, or like.. ghci < 1343054513 639615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or when it involved a small amount of something programmatic. bc's syntax for that is quite horrible. < 1343054515 785764 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not sed? < 1343054528 931540 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, although I don't really know sed. < 1343054535 220786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, bc /has/ syntax for that? < 1343054547 604818 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, m4 is terrible < 1343054552 869788 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc is also kind of terribke < 1343054555 920208 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible* < 1343054557 925111 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :my knowledge of perl prevents me from ever learning sed beyond its s command. < 1343054560 963451 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't bc just compiler that compiles code to dc? < 1343054564 378927 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You can define functions, and have for/while loops. < 1343054569 458059 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, it was. < 1343054569 609700 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1343054573 6536 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't any more. < 1343054618 743466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, Octave/Matlab "REPL" is pretty horrible too, especially when it comes to defining functions on the fly. < 1343054620 67126 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to WP these days dc tends to use the bc libraries. < 1343054630 145831 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't GNU dc turing complete? < 1343054635 953416 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1343054639 236043 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is there a TI-83+ emulator for Android. That would be kind of neat. Or at least a calculator with similar functionality < 1343054641 110351 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing GNU, it has to be < 1343054647 77858 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is GNU m4. < 1343054652 855177 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And indeed normal m4 AFAIK. < 1343054657 79252 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised find isn't turing complete yet < 1343054661 782324 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have a TI-8x (it does most of them) emulator installed on the N900. Haven't used it much, though. < 1343054664 628618 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would actually be useful for me < 1343054686 107320 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find find to be strangely limited. < 1343054687 22023 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could do something with, like, recursive symlinks? < 1343054687 213989 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :though my calculator's keypad is about the same size as the entire screen on my phone < 1343054697 398089 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are recursive simlinks a thing, I forget) < 1343054697 751958 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't search for files with a given mime type easily, for example. < 1343054699 100047 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the exact same button layout isn't going to work < 1343054710 972958 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on that small screen, can't be easy to use < 1343054713 385202 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to plug in a custom script via -exec that runs xdg-mime or something like that. < 1343054722 287338 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The symlinks are static < 1343054738 803154 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could -delete them with -prune maybe < 1343054750 933681 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "AlmostTI", and it does TI-85, -86, -82, -83, -83+, -73 and -83+SE. There's also buttons for -84+ and -84+SE, but those are grayed out. < 1343054751 978644 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :For control flow < 1343054762 139279 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1343054765 882095 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, there's the stylus. < 1343054767 367203 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should never miss two weeks of class again < 1343054774 640049 :coppro!~scshunt@ascorbic-acid.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will do it anyway because he's stupid
< 1343054777 970647 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still, that is quite a low res screen iirc? < 1343054793 817430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to see the entire calculator on the screen < 1343054794 207974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 800x480, it's perfectly adequate for that. < 1343054819 729206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can see individual pixels of the screen, and read the keys. < 1343054825 620492 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343054849 522976 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also apparently not too bad with just my usual fingernail-poking strategy without the stylus. < 1343054872 603886 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless someone knows a good graphing calculator for Android, maybe I'll make one myself < 1343054880 152027 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be too hard, surely < 1343054913 520203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the skin in the thing is a render, or just a retouched photo. It looks a bit too clean to be exactly real. < 1343054925 520963 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343054926 5175 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 weeks later: IT'S ON FIRE THIS IS VERY HARD < 1343054937 68407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it could even be some vectors modeled after a photo. < 1343054940 735088 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh come on, it is not hard, just extensive < 1343054961 533960 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't plan to implement TI-BASIC < 1343054977 17781 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, there's a program called "FOO" in my emulated TI-86. < 1343054987 825298 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wrote it? < 1343054993 534664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have. < 1343055002 479550 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1343055011 75374 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has just "Lbl ABCDEFGH" and "Goto ABCDEFGH", in that order, in it. < 1343055018 523357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorta baffled as to the purpose of it. < 1343055028 292007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite loop then? < 1343055037 160338 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1343055055 392335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran it before looking at it, and spent a minute watching the "working" indicator go. < 1343055067 230141 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that was the purpose, to confuse myself a year later. < 1343055093 306373 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm one issue though... what parser generators are there for java? < 1343055113 748021 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried out a couple, though I've forgotten the names. < 1343055115 221750 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :flex style ones I mean < 1343055118 180745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a whole lot, of course. < 1343055140 455977 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes i will use my extensive knowledge both of parser generators and java to answer < 1343055145 396371 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, any good ones < 1343055158 355500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I need to leave, food is ready < 1343055191 560733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that antlr thing, the javacc one, and sablecc. < 1343055195 785090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those I remember offhand. < 1343055201 155236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are very many. < 1343055201 644077 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget sarlacc. < 1343055208 99926 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's the pits. < 1343055248 435005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our compiler course used one of the ones that have two C's in the name. < 1343055295 459145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I recall correctly, JavaCC is quite lex/yacc-inspired when it comes to syntax, though it's an old and not-fancy-at-all. < 1343055350 190302 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only truly powerful parser is handrolled C code. :> < 1343055367 930588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then there's Coco/R. < 1343055373 903476 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one was quite multi-language. < 1343055402 16053 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: well it isn't that fun to write. especialy if you're making a c compiler < 1343055414 561229 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know what fun is. < 1343055448 10730 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, to write an Intercal compiler you'd need yacccc (yet another compiler compiler compiler compiler) < 1343055470 682950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SableCC (IIRC) produces typed AST classes and tree-walker base classes for your grammar automatically, which can be a good thing if you're "into" that kinda thing. < 1343055471 14392 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: I have done that. it isn't fun but it was easier than trying to figure out yacc and lex < 1343055486 716685 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaCC just has yaccy actions, and I think some sort of separate AST thing that's purely optional. < 1343055545 794494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm sure there's also something very modern and fancy available. All these things existed already years ago.) < 1343055548 565397 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I'd have to agree with you there < 1343055591 988615 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :while parser generators are a great idea, yacc is fugly < 1343055622 409270 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the yacc-inspired Java offerings aren't perhaps so... historical. < 1343055630 271148 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and once you've handrolled a few parsers, it becomes ingrained enough that it's easy to do < 1343055671 175820 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus you learn to design languages that are trivial to parse ;) < 1343055777 378285 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, BtW based on the fact that that lecturer you mentioned earlier works at Cambridge I assume you attend there. < 1343055797 229328 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of which I love writing forth and lisp parsers < 1343055951 893248 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: attended, yes < 1343055964 576276 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just graduated this summer :) < 1343055969 763406 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which college? < 1343055972 736388 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Churchill < 1343056001 6776 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's the one I applied to. < 1343056014 565548 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I didn't. < 1343056020 91144 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION applied to Trinity and got pooled
< 1343056034 9729 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm glad I did, because Churchill is *awesome* ;) < 1343056065 553060 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My entire reason for going was that it's next to the maths campus. < 1343056095 144529 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend who applied to St John's for the same reason, not realising that it's the back garden that's next to the maths campus. < 1343056109 130391 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also that everyone hates St John's apparently. < 1343056176 919046 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1343056295 406050 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, everyone does hate St John's < 1343056298 4409 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why < 1343056300 77189 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just do < 1343056396 168269 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8 < 1343056436 381499 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closest I was able to get to an explanation was that they're stuck-up, which my friend said wasn't unjustified based on what he saw. < 1343056464 366445 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru dat < 1343056641 278218 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god there's now a hampture livestrea, < 1343056643 514236 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*m < 1343057122 764000 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1343057900 308947 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : the only truly powerful parser is handrolled C code. :> <-- need java in this case though < 1343057949 833790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : SableCC (IIRC) produces typed AST classes and tree-walker base classes for your grammar automatically, which can be a good thing if you're "into" that kinda thing. <-- might be useful, probably not so much for my use case < 1343057990 630884 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I'm only going for lex, not yacc < 1343057997 870605 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't plan on compiling the result < 1343058016 553917 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hm < 1343058023 485074 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay maybe yacc too < 1343058082 211664 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, "hampture"? < 1343058093 421565 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that < 1343058364 214388 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343058373 148438 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1343058419 143499 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343058691 138441 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :insight into my ignorant mind, reads "wtf is X", considers replying "the question is, what isn't X?" < 1343058691 804654 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343058708 411267 :MSleep!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1343058742 816262 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spends the extra time to consider how it is much easier to ask for a member than a set < 1343059637 493456 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 QUIT :Quit: brb, < 1343059653 921273 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343059719 769169 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343059782 165174 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1343059963 290964 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :puh. It took me 30 minutes to figure out how a while loop in my own language works o_O < 1343059972 815816 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which language is this < 1343059987 397622 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took me 3 hours to write a while loop in mine (Eniuq) < 1343060054 580617 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ri{0\\/1.-}{1.-}w!vv reads an integer n and produces n-1 zeroes. < 1343060184 171366 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burlesque#Example_programs < 1343060187 569398 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@language < 1343060187 957660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1343060299 588308 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Eniuq that's impossible. But you can read an integer n and produce n capital Is: < 1343060301 457077 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :?1-"I~1-~84*3+f!1+4*5d3**+84*3+Dk84*3+"48*2+D48*2+O`Oo < 1343060301 861866 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1343060322 599594 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this program fails if you pass 0 or 1 as the integer < 1343060337 503678 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you get about 2³² Is instead) < 1343060359 546363 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343060424 182521 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1343060488 904114 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by impossible? < 1343060527 648977 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I pass a zero to mine it never terminates :) < 1343060536 68489 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everything except 0 is true < 1343060538 172165 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1343060561 833411 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless GHCs Int wraps around sometime it never terminates. < 1343060585 373186 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it's impossible to output the character 0 in Eniuq < 1343060626 926547 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1343060646 668022 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't output anything that's an operator, which is any of 0123456789+-*/&|^!?~dDfkKoO < 1343060703 399825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only language that becomes less powerful the more operators you add < 1343060725 446855 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1343060787 353879 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, project to create a self-contained underwater hamster enclosure. < 1343060963 684347 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ... what about oxygen? < 1343060980 756741 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also is this a reference to Rapture from Bioshock then? < 1343060984 917986 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, 'self-contained' means the enclosure itself is underwater. < 1343060991 132559 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well es < 1343060992 248238 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes* < 1343060994 162311 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1343061000 584263 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Air, water and food are all supplied from outside. < 1343061002 385180 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but you need oxygen for the hamster in it < 1343061003 411990 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1343061004 483534 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1343061005 900951 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1343061010 813274 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a biosphere for it < 1343061042 640808 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well he did have very good results growing plants in it, to the extent he had to take it out of the water to clear the massive overgrowth. < 1343061049 144820 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1343061053 457865 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343061080 75583 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Self-sufficient oxygen production is impractical, though. < 1343061129 683106 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1343061204 431133 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1343061212 456200 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're surrounded by seawater < 1343061255 754020 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.savagechickens.com/2011/02/tree-astronaut-to-the-rescue.html < 1343061265 794335 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, hardly self-sufficient. < 1343061273 41944 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only trouble is, it's salty, so when you try to electrolyse it you'll get loads of poisonous poisonous chlorine < 1343061292 468606 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the hamsters run in wheels to power the electrolysis, /obviously/ ;) < 1343061659 244573 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1343062436 592942 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1343063978 741450 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1343064241 579057 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343064350 564363 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1343064389 970063 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1343064394 131068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1343064951 846866 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, um. ANTLR is recursive decent? < 1343064954 246504 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343064954 397748 :calamari!~calamari@ip72-211-147-156.tc.ph.cox.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1343064957 236183 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1343065009 469929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaCC might be too. < 1343065015 241336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure how much it matters. < 1343065021 875832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick to LL(1) grammars or something. < 1343065088 562954 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what's wrong with recursive descent? < 1343065113 202161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :smells of evilution < 1343065171 231036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can't write left-recursive rules, I guess, even if those might feel natural to you. < 1343065238 950161 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Direct left-recursion (A=Ab) is a trivial optimization for a half-decent parser generator, and more complicated left recursion is basically nonexistent. < 1343065274 822389 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that I've only ever been in one Ikea < 1343065290 680971 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Beat me, I've never been in an IKEA. < 1343065347 158203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Alternatively/additionally, you might have e.g. religious reasons for wanting a LALR parser. < 1343065355 613494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've been in more than two. < 1343065359 597381 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343065408 902085 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly just one. < 1343065451 275033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only five in Finland, and three of the five are somewhere elsewhere. < 1343065452 728060 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1343065474 968705 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is exactly one reason to go to IKEA: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10193197/ < 1343065475 870111 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 10 in the UK, and those 10 represent about 18% of furniture purchases < 1343065503 689818 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you mean other than to steal the pencils? < 1343065539 655447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an IKEA right across the border from Tornio (Tornio/Haparanda are Finnish/Swedish towns adjecent across a river, and they form basically one town in practice) and I'm given to understand that the Finnish locals visit it quite often. < 1343065555 931478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I understand many people go to IKEA for the meatballs. < 1343065567 681389 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Err, don't Finnland and Sweden have different currency? < 1343065587 31847 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure. How so? < 1343065598 992708 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it… kinda complicated to hop over the river to eat some meatballs and pay for them with a currency you don't have? < 1343065599 669493 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (It's also Finland.) < 1343065605 857653 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tpyo >_> < 1343065626 737753 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume if you live in Tornio/Haparanda, you quite often have both currencies handy. Anyway, you can pay with plastic. < 1343065639 129594 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyeah, I suppose it's 2012, innit. < 1343065653 852216 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels weird, being in the Future and all < 1343065657 868858 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1343065681 90149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1343065693 669291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Today the two towns are closely interconnected economically and socially; they constitute a transborder conurbation marketed as "EuroCity". Since Sweden and Finland are in different time zones, Haparanda is one hour behind Tornio. This allows a unique spectacle on New Years Eve, when people can welcome in the new year twice. Since 2005 the cities have rebranded themselves as ... < 1343065700 165820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... "Haparanda-Tornio" in Sweden, and "Tornio-Haparanda" in Finland." < 1343065712 160395 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that even means that the establishments on Sweden's side actually accept euros. < 1343065712 597479 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you from tornio? < 1343065717 438453 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Client Quit < 1343065725 925902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, I've just heard about it. < 1343065732 177067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, and driven through it. < 1343065733 282479 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ohyeah, I suppose it's 2012, innit. <-- yeah, though looking at the cards in US you wouldn't believe it was < 1343065744 802289 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, you don't have chips in your cards widely yet < 1343065747 834055 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neh neh neh we Europeans are so in the future < 1343065748 775007 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are so backwards < 1343065771 18087 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no we are not in the future, we are in the present. It is YOU guys who are in the past. < 1343065784 30144 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're so far in the future British people have started winning the Tour de France < 1343065813 341048 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1343065817 203725 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, has that ever happened? < 1343065819 461393 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: but not yet so far into the future that you've solved the two faucets problem < 1343065825 687020 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yeah, yesterday < 1343065837 328107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, did it end already? < 1343065839 385339 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :*far out of the past < 1343065847 170678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if that Paris thing was in fact the final thing. < 1343065849 124699 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1343065857 891863 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had sort of a vague notion that one end of the route was in Paris. < 1343065867 53313 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they got there yesterday? < 1343065874 582784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were three TV channels providing the same live coverage of the Tour yesterday. < 1343065882 42404 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Belgians are interested about it too. < 1343065885 868843 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good news is that a quickly changing society won't stagnate very long < 1343065936 749092 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also "transborder conurbation" sounds funny.) < 1343065985 397795 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think the word "conurbation" sounds funny by itself < 1343066031 352796 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's at place on the Dutch-Belgian border that's weird < 1343066061 702496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The Finnish website of the (Swedish) IKEA in Haparanda confirms that you can pay with both Swedish paper money as well as euros (though banknotes only, no coins; you get the change back in SEK), in addition to cards. < 1343066085 621128 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neato. < 1343066093 935017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this make a monad? data M t x = M0 x | M1 (t (M t) x); join (M1 x) = M1 (x >>= lift); < 1343066128 23866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We crossed the Belgium/Luxembourg border at "Sterpenich", which sounds a bit silly too. (YMMV.) < 1343066138 981370 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, only if t (M t) is a functor? < 1343066171 584097 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: But that is already one of the conditions that lift exists < 1343066180 70577 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t lift < 1343066181 301630 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall (m :: * -> *) a (t :: (* -> *) -> * -> *). (MonadTrans t, Monad m) => m a -> t m a < 1343066195 552636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: What place is the weird place? < 1343066225 512671 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget the name < 1343066232 64717 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a bubbly border < 1343066275 97176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Baarle-Nassau? < 1343066276 390541 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how can you get your change in SEK, it probably won't add up < 1343066285 61539 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to inexact conversion ratios < 1343066293 46406 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite possibly < 1343066303 238961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: At least it looks really silly in Google Maps. < 1343066318 58562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goo.gl/maps/5cQn < 1343066349 166015 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that domain saved you 3 letters, what is the point < 1343066379 828805 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's what comes out when you press "short URL" in the "permalink to this place" in Google Maps. < 1343066385 206430 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1343066397 886032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the alternative would've been something like https://maps.google.com/?ll=51.430896,4.921188&spn=0.092361,0.263844&t=m&z=13 < 1343066399 319838 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dual may go data W t x = W x (t (W t) x); duplicate (W x y) = W (W x y) (y =>> lower); < 1343066401 185880 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that place has quite a bit of nesting it seems < 1343066401 786108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit longer. < 1343066405 686342 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 levels? < 1343066451 207537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Baarle-Hertog consists of 26 separate pieces of land. Apart from the main piece (called Zondereigen) located north of the Belgian town of Merksplas, there are 22 Belgian exclaves in the Netherlands and three other pieces on the Dutch-Belgian border. There are also six Dutch exclaves located within the largest Belgian exclave, one within the second-largest, and an eighth within Zondereigen. ... < 1343066457 243789 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The smallest Belgian parcel, H12, measures 2,632 square metres. < 1343066459 200626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kinda a funny. < 1343066461 712843 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The border's complexity results from a number of equally complex medieval treaties, agreements, land-swaps and sales between the Lords of Breda and the Dukes of Brabant." < 1343066463 470474 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some idea today: A simultaneous chessboxing like card game. < 1343066475 489007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The similar kink in the Sweden/Finland border is not at all as funny. < 1343066491 337722 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is a similiar situation there? < 1343066502 946493 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it just went straight through Haparanda? < 1343066516 218744 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Not there; the place in Åland with the funny shape. < 1343066530 482022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's been discussed on channel. It's the place where they drew the border and then discovered that lighthouse had been built on the wrong side. < 1343066530 907123 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't Åland all Finnish? < 1343066536 732706 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1343066542 155808 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a google maps link? < 1343066543 193194 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the island between Åland and Sweden. < 1343066546 226257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can find it. < 1343066583 12447 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-48.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1343066639 201930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4rket < 1343066660 245225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one of Wikipedia's general-purpose geolinks from there. < 1343066660 814896 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343066683 850909 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, though, Google Maps is not showing me the Finland/Sweden border. < 1343066686 154786 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it goes a bit further in on the Finnish side there, is that to compensate for the lost land? < 1343066711 790623 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is a lighthouse on the Finnish side of the current border, which has been unmanned and automated since 1979. When it was built by the Russians and Finns in 1885 there were no clear maps of the island. After the completion of the lighthouse, it was discovered that it had been built on the Swedish part of the island. < 1343066716 791996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a result, the border was adjusted in 1985 so that the lighthouse is now located on Finnish territory.[4] The adjustment was carried out such that no net transfer of territory occurred, and the ownership of the coastline was unchanged so as not to interfere with each country's fishing rights." < 1343066726 451356 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343066729 720619 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it tries to keep the land area constant. < 1343066759 281782 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did they put a länsgräns on it < 1343066776 866708 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I don't really know. < 1343066784 646592 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly a terribly interesting island. < 1343066818 481734 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it might help navigationally in knowing where the border goes. < 1343066824 21256 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the pre-GPS days, anyway. < 1343066831 792533 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the border is exactly patrolled there. < 1343066855 44022 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that it's patrolled e.g. in Tornio-Haparanda either, we just drove over a bridge there and that was it. < 1343066915 281167 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343066926 621302 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what did you expect for an internal Schengen border? < 1343066937 563094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much else. < 1343066944 594832 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1343066961 741161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :During our previous Finland-Sweden-Denmark-Germany-Netherlands-Belgium-France-Germany-Denmark-Sweden-Finland train trip, absolutely nobody checked our passports. < 1343066974 757963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you think of simultaneous chessboxing like card game? < 1343066975 232410 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :expected < 1343066979 15969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though the Interrail tickets explicitly say the passports will be verified on every train trip. < 1343066986 723648 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the tickets are personal. < 1343066994 567815 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1343067049 203445 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway about that place in Belgium and the Netherlands, you said the smallest region was a few square meters. Was that inside a house or outside? < 1343067062 866272 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what sort of significance does it carry < 1343067063 17320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few thousand square metres. < 1343067072 283776 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1343067072 826763 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :, is not a decimal point in English Wikipedia. < 1343067074 939348 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :more boring < 1343067076 284146 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1343067088 246841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still pretty small. < 1343067092 626831 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1343067104 721790 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few square meters would have been funny < 1343067139 745511 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Google satellite map, the border goes right through some buildings in oblique angles. < 1343067150 293076 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1343067169 702497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure one of those houses has a case where your toilet is in another country. < 1343067180 488069 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :, is a silly decimal point < 1343067182 660731 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even a point < 1343067198 918332 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it actually go like that, or is it just that google doesn't have high enough precision in the data? < 1343067204 813521 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity: Sorry, decimal mark. < 1343067217 526388 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNACCEPTABLE < 1343067229 352198 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, well, Swedes and Finns use it as a decimal mark < 1343067232 148295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't really know. The Wikipedia article's map doesn't show buildings. < 1343067239 592131 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343067252 956093 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, it's pretty common actually. < 1343067263 18595 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Spanish-speaking world uses , for decimals. < 1343067263 226313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baarle-Nassau_fronti%C3%A8re_caf%C3%A9.jpg at least they've marked the border there. < 1343067298 260500 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343067313 235627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :CERN campus is half on France's side, half on Switzerland's side, and I don't think the border was marked in any way. < 1343067366 95870 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't need to write my own graphing calculator for my phone. I found a TI-89 emulator < 1343067372 520694 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the top model? < 1343067380 569245 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had some CASsy things. < 1343067389 14611 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it do 3D graphs < 1343067391 214714 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a TI-92 too, IIRC, but it's a different form factor. < 1343067392 871988 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one of them could < 1343067395 591313 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343067420 457959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :89 and 92 are the m68k-based ones. < 1343067426 949963 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1343067442 973094 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not allowed in exams in Finland, due to being too advanced. < 1343067443 982120 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a megadrive/genesis :o < 1343067459 958248 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same in Sweden < 1343067474 64908 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1343067506 794387 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are not allowed in exams here either, although being too advanced is not the only reason for it (it is one of them); TI-92 is also disallowed because it has a QWERTY keyboard is another reason for it to be disallowed. < 1343067511 208049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, they made the TI-89 basically by taking the TI-92 and mangling it into the vertical form factor of the "TI-8x" series. < 1343067520 223940 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And discontinued the TI-92 while there were at it. < 1343067539 729661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, anyway. This was in 1998, based on wiki's infoboxen. < 1343067571 255993 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the United States, the TI-89 is allowed by the College Board on all calculator-permitted tests, including the SAT, some SAT Subject Tests and the AP Calculus, Chemistry, and Statistics exams. However, the calculator is banned from use on the ACT, the PLAN, and in some classrooms. In many testing situations, the TI-89 and TI-89 Titanium, along with the HP-49 series, are the most powerful ... < 1343067577 762525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and function-rich graphing calculators that are permitted: the TI-92 series, with otherwise comparable features, have QWERTY keyboards that result in them being classified as computer devices rather than calculators." < 1343067599 765585 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I'm mistaken, our ban was more about the algebra features than just a QWERTY keyboard, so I'd think the TI-89 is not allowed either. < 1343067622 138348 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in my area I think the ban is for both reasons < 1343067694 642186 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same here < 1343067750 437350 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick NICK :yorick_ < 1343067759 291428 :yorick_!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick NICK :yorick < 1343067800 712196 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1343067816 759412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting from 2012, they've decided to allow the TI-Nspire CX CAS. < 1343067822 654496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which does symbolic algebra stuffs. < 1343067824 887869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's funny. < 1343067872 372980 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does integrals and derivatives and equation-solving and whatnot. < 1343067887 277747 :ert3go!~nirmit@27.123.217.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343067898 479168 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343067898 894869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least TI's page claims that, haven't found the official list yet. < 1343067910 163696 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the TI-89 does all of those things as well? < 1343067941 753252 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does, yes. < 1343067959 447923 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But of course TI is highlighting the more expensive model. < 1343067966 560197 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny how you need these expensive calculators for algebra classes. < 1343067994 810173 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when you get into upper level college mathematics its "yeah... you don't need a calculator for this class." < 1343068008 535616 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This must be a really new thing, since the other TI guide I found is very explicit about only allowing numeric integration/derivation and such. < 1343068056 775454 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :spirity, I found that generally having a TI-83+ is nice. I suck at basic arithmetic in my head. I can do symbol handling just fine. But don't ask me was 279+148 is :P < 1343068072 768456 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :427? < 1343068077 290735 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 279+148 < 1343068078 662019 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 427 < 1343068082 176528 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1343068089 565113 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was making sure he can still do arithmetic.
< 1343068099 167981 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this official instruction PDF from the Matriculation Examination Board written in... Comic Sans? < 1343068102 238260 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm weird though because I work backwards from the way you learn how to do it < 1343068106 781251 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I start with 2 + 1 on the left side < 1343068113 706044 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is. < 1343068116 277651 :ert3go!~nirmit@27.123.217.19 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1343068120 807869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ pdffonts Downloads/matematiikka.pdf < 1343068120 959093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :name type emb sub uni object ID < 1343068120 959205 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :------------------------------------ ----------------- --- --- --- --------- < 1343068120 959258 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLRLKW+TimesNewRomanPSMT TrueType yes yes yes 93 0 < 1343068121 546707 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :VNPTUC+ComicSansMS TrueType yes yes yes 94 0 < 1343068126 368878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so professional. < 1343068163 25397 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1343068181 947802 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I do 2 + 1, then 4 + 7, carry the 10 to the previous calculation, then 8+9, carry the 10 to the previous calculation < 1343068183 210832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it says that "all calculators are allowed". Wowza. < 1343068189 844486 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, times change, I guess. < 1343068205 902295 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunatly that means sometimes I have to "double carry" in reverse, which is a bit more difficult than the standard method. < 1343068255 593003 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1343068278 851022 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you @symbol handling < 1343068397 118812 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: where can I download a burlesque interpreter/compiler? < 1343068412 602616 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque < 1343068427 797879 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1343068460 463339 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this relatively stable? < 1343068507 7839 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of what? < 1343068563 992002 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't support every builtin function I want it to support yet. < 1343068577 970945 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in bugs in the implemented features < 1343068646 824136 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tested every function by hand and so far they worked to my satisfaction. < 1343068670 808672 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't implemented support for automatic testing yet. < 1343068759 390679 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BBS door games do not seem to test whether or not your terminal can display the club suit < 1343068796 171180 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may not be testable on all terminals either, but some may be able to report the cursor position < 1343068871 215662 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Are you considering using Burlesque for something? < 1343069029 921113 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys < 1343069055 933768 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a new computer, but due to me not doing the research, it has an nVidia graphics card < 1343069059 936356 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reccomended OS? < 1343069080 891130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 Warp. < 1343069126 212090 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haiku. < 1343069133 859476 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1343069134 644345 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1343069149 13903 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well done, sirs. < 1343069149 832408 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no we drove it off. :/ < 1343069240 9025 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "recommended OS?" is a question you just shouldn't ask ;) < 1343069287 468445 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use whatever OS you want < 1343069288 907552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reccomended OS even more so. < 1343069306 324223 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dual boot if you want < 1343069312 377164 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :rec co-mened? < 1343069321 210790 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re-commenced OS. < 1343069329 282751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dual boot and triple compile. < 1343069333 530264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it double. < 1343069334 666470 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :record co-mended operating system. < 1343069346 353415 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it was just double. < 1343069372 107812 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It records your (co-)mending! Only $0.50." < 1343069639 223918 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343069643 536900 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1343069651 983887 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :First off, I can't spell some words < 1343069654 572969 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like reccomend < 1343069661 693248 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 Warp < 1343069732 53498 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second off, I'm probably gonna trial-boot Windows 7/Ubuntu/Haiku < 1343069782 768599 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Warp 3 or Warp 4? < 1343069798 397752 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: *triple-boot? < 1343069810 739134 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :trial-triple-boot . < 1343069817 618083 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, if it's triple, then it's double-boot for two < 1343069829 486652 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: 4 obviously, it has built-in voice recognition < 1343069834 573741 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trial#Adjective_2 < 1343069871 53373 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way reccomend a OS for me < 1343069884 182146 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 98 SE < 1343069890 814002 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first OS I learnt to yous < 1343069893 41158 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*use < 1343069907 98461 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is it available without IE? < 1343069914 857354 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Da first OS youse learnt to youse < 1343069921 919882 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ta < 1343069941 834464 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in sounds, and stammer and slur on the inside < 1343069944 183913 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't fun < 1343069968 326513 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and also do you have any experience with OS/2 2.0? I'm getting install floppy pack for it < 1343069983 973652 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have a floppy drive < 1343069997 550341 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have on my server < 1343069998 238035 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I do, but it's on the '98 computer < 1343070010 533732 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which doesn't have a mouse or a screen < 1343070027 567595 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you operate it without a screen? < 1343070041 431856 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you connect a terminal to a serial port or something like that? < 1343070041 583294 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1343070048 246 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sitting in my bedroom doing nothing < 1343070200 412825 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: not sure if I've ever used that, I suspect that Warp 3 was my first OS/2 experience < 1343070237 710805 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :using my server floppy drive is bit clunky sometimes. I usually execute nc -l -p 1234 > name.img on my main machine, ssh to my sever and execxute nc 192.168.255.3 1234 < /dev/fd0 < 1343070254 712371 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343070359 634969 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :People should stop using fib as an abbreviation for fibonacci. < 1343070365 288333 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very misleading. < 1343070368 609062 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1343070382 868628 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@word < 1343070386 780870 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@help < 1343070387 163132 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :help . Ask for help for . Try 'list' for all commands < 1343070389 842126 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fib and not fibo < 1343070390 100103 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list < 1343070390 637372 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS < 1343070401 165365 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@all-dicts fib < 1343070402 70677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "Fib" gcide "The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48" < 1343070402 220350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fib \Fib\, n. [Prob. fr. fable; cf. Prov. E. fibble-fabble < 1343070402 220547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : nonsense.] < 1343070402 220658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : A falsehood; a lie; -- used euphemistically. < 1343070402 220800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1913 Webster] < 1343070403 976311 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[61 @more lines] < 1343070430 1061 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fib is a lie! < 1343070482 90732 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :A function named fib can actually do whatever it wants and still satisfy its name. < 1343070583 433690 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I might try it out. < 1343070693 861174 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :from now on < 1343070708 213731 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fib = fix (error) in fib < 1343070709 714442 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E... < 1343070779 92654 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fib n = "The fib function computes the nth value in the Fibonacci sequence." < 1343070780 337473 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : not an expression: `let fib n = "The fib function computes the nth value in... < 1343070789 280884 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't remember my Haskell at all 8-D < 1343070871 580377 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fib n = "This is the " ++ show n ++ "th fibonacci number" in fib 8 < 1343070873 942416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "This is the 8th fibonacci number" < 1343070898 294671 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it always lies 8-D < 1343070906 426558 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, OK, within that let expression it always lies) < 1343070923 553590 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fib = fix(scanl(+)0.(1:)) in take 10 fib < 1343070925 935387 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34] < 1343070938 727978 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least it can calculate the thirth Fibonacci number. < 1343070979 754831 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343070983 142634 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fib = fix(scanl(+)0.(1:)) in fib !! 30 < 1343070985 391049 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 832040 < 1343070996 18042 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let fib = fix(scanl(+)0.(1:)) in fib !! 90 < 1343070998 220348 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2880067194370816120 < 1343071040 988898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why you did not remember Haskell? < 1343071084 228714 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burlesque/Types.hs:9:7: < 1343071084 380326 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not find module `Control.Monad.State': < 1343071084 380532 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : locations searched: < 1343071084 380644 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : Control/Monad/State.hs < 1343071084 380785 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : Control/Monad/State.lhs < 1343071098 992525 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I missing a library? < 1343071101 812932 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Yes. < 1343071109 540367 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1343071111 76201 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad.State comes with the haskell-platform actually. < 1343071115 401277 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is recommended to install < 1343071116 441276 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1343071117 133641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Who said I don't even have a television? I just said I don't own one. < 1343071121 810491 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is in mtl < 1343071148 848598 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: The library itself is probably "monad-state" < 1343071156 625334 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal install monad-state < 1343071199 148137 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have cabal, I just did apt-get install haskell-platform < 1343071240 698557 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason was that I recently switched to debian, but I didn't install that package < 1343071254 536525 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I installed ghc only) < 1343071340 979745 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-platform should contain Control.Monad.State < 1343071354 328952 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just successfully compiled it < 1343071389 21467 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1343071394 731924 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :O < 1343071426 939837 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1343071455 610040 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@123.118.114.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343071455 921506 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@123.118.114.103 QUIT :Changing host < 1343071456 72876 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1343071553 139929 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can just go with ghci and use putStr $ runProgram "{{ab cd}{ef gh}}\\[" "" < 1343071554 261260 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1343071774 404323 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or echo "1 2 3 4" | runhaskell main.hs examples/sumNum.blsq of course < 1343071868 893746 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't it work as a stand-alone executable? < 1343071880 550180 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can. < 1343071909 459118 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc --make main.hs -o burlesque < 1343071925 22275 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that but, maybe you should allow something like < 1343071936 797823 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :./burlesque "program" < 1343071947 283463 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. well. < 1343071953 790801 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1343072087 231840 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using files is good for me though, I can just use Crtl + D when I want the output < 1343072294 245941 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: in Stlang you would use { comment } $, how do you (if you can) add comments in Burleque? < 1343072300 225214 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Burlesque < 1343072319 4504 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque/blob/0ffb922dca49343f4dbb3820050ff577f188bd58/main.hs <- contains some hacky command line options < 1343072385 985791 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: You can do {"I am a comment"}vv < 1343072400 582427 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1343072402 544314 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with the changes I've made to dogless I'm pretty confident it's turing complete. < 1343072406 814778 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "I am a comment"vv < 1343072407 552391 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll need to write up a sepc though < 1343072411 940283 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to look more at your source code :p < 1343072426 879151 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :vv is pop. < 1343072446 989241 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that helps < 1343072447 996859 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1343072451 900702 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ would push? < 1343072458 47192 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ is duplicate < 1343072461 418596 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1343072471 302977 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Values are pushed automatically. < 1343072472 213378 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pushes whatever you give it? < 1343072475 245272 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1343072492 710330 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a normal stack-based language. < 1343072498 713929 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the pushing behavior < 1343072516 630332 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines 29-46 of Eval.hs help < 1343072539 177561 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1343072564 720906 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343072581 176175 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343072623 553119 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah with this change dogless is turing complete as far as I can tell < 1343072633 859255 :spirity!~eris@spirity.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can more or less modify arbitrary characters in the source code. < 1343072876 42475 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reverse on Block should probably reverse the block :) < 1343072881 711950 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a nifty feature :) < 1343073002 820936 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1343073067 424681 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: a while's condition must be non-zero for it to continue, I assume? < 1343073146 312212 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Exactly. < 1343073305 508772 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are no comparision functions yet. < 1343073310 5541 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1343073320 325743 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :10{1.-}{1.-}w! loops until that 10 reaches 1 < 1343073327 33116 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :10{1.-}{5.-}w! loops until that 10 reaches 5 < 1343073329 633284 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on. < 1343073411 554286 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and evaluating the while condition does not affect the global stack < 1343073450 7267 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1343073570 171802 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1343073586 185797 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343073737 884070 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can add comparision functions in a minute. < 1343073746 860273 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding builtin functions is usually a piece of cake < 1343073761 221284 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they are more complicated like while or concat < 1343073861 143205 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does ~] do exactly? < 1343073981 244216 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello"~] is "hell" < 1343073992 649177 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it returns the list without its last element. < 1343073992 800539 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1343074001 863851 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or block < 1343074008 265697 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually Burlesque doesn't have lists :) < 1343074031 42634 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1343074074 35388 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1343074125 510718 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it work for numbers? (could you remove the last byte?) < 1343074133 57794 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or bit) < 1343074138 29848 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet. < 1343074140 306495 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But good ideas. < 1343074158 939389 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is you can't have both :) < 1343074159 671076 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going too look into this more tomorrow < 1343074160 531617 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1343074164 617869 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-19-9.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1343074981 777244 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1343076361 246691 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell AnotherTest http://mroman.ch/burlesque/builtins.html <- up to date reference table of builtins < 1343076361 610802 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1343076372 286889 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell lambdabot Thank you. < 1343076372 743286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try ;) < 1343076657 530510 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-90-215.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1343076974 796394 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343077096 747330 :derdon!~derdon@pD9E1CAE9.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343077955 466778 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "Perhaps it's a typo, and was meant to be AArgh64" (regarding arm64 being called aarch64) < 1343078829 714144 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-78-146-165-130.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343080121 162027 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1343080668 422370 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1343081324 761897 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if Csound accepts hex literals? < 1343081916 625797 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone just suggested to me that I should write an operating system in make < 1343081928 433915 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the worst part is, I'm thinking about how I would < 1343082327 437723 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does make even have enough capabilities for that? < 1343082411 322558 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1343082462 126184 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My make skills are sadly really bad :( < 1343082465 50691 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well no, because by its nature it requires a preexisting operating system. < 1343082496 168080 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you use a copout like doing IO mapping, and you can write an OS with literally any TC language + IO mapping. < 1343082519 503559 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: how would it communicate with hw? < 1343082533 852072 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: It's make + echo < 1343082554 624864 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: devide driver level? < 1343082562 121816 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would need to use /dev, yes < 1343082580 480465 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the trick is to have include files which you change < 1343082581 630339 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev, which is implemented... by the operating system. < 1343082603 331969 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that causes Make to restart itself < 1343082612 461276 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :top 3 esolangs: dc, sed and make < 1343082631 741589 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well /obviously/ this is a virtualisation-only OS < 1343082650 696297 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1343082654 726319 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :apl, perl, ruby ;) < 1343082658 310073 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you mean VM-only? < 1343082663 167343 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: have you seen the makefile mandlebrot? < 1343082672 966033 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Idon't think I have < 1343082676 619077 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or desire to :/ < 1343082682 402876 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because then /dev is still being implemented by the virtualised OS. < 1343082698 116786 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're then implementing your make "OS" on top of that. < 1343082704 325491 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++, C++, and, erm, C++ STL < 1343082719 929099 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1343082732 549364 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1343082734 753493 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't you build a compiler for it? < 1343082750 770496 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think make allows shell stuff? < 1343082751 477876 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1343082751 629231 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1343082757 40661 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could build a hardware Makefile coprocessor ;) < 1343082767 5525 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /io/port/... < 1343082774 783215 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo > /io/port/... < 1343082780 739398 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: make an os with low level kernel written in asm and high level system in make ;) < 1343082792 925140 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah all I'd allow would be echo > < 1343082812 523994 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: It's kinda tempting < 1343082820 995198 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that certainly needs a runtime system. < 1343082827 788337 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not. < 1343082836 880703 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you compile you can special case that :) < 1343082840 587082 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one can compile make < 1343082842 639073 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it can be written in recursive sed ! < 1343082852 795627 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, but in that case the pathnames are just syntactic sugar for hardware IO instructions, and that's not even make any more. < 1343082865 246554 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a language with very similar syntax but totally different semantics. < 1343082893 244685 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. make allows embedding shell script? < 1343082915 492075 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can't do hardware IO with shell builtins either.) < 1343082924 983015 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: sed is recursive enough on its own, I think < 1343082941 401636 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I get your point. < 1343082948 84622 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is normal sed tc? < 1343082970 194069 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would be a reasonable trade-off to sugar some IO stuff < 1343082976 357615 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(imho) < 1343082981 797414 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: yep < 1343082987 463867 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementing $thing with some ridiculous language is cool /if the language is actually applicable to $thing's domain/. < 1343082989 203707 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: how? < 1343083003 767487 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put it in a loop, which makes string rewriting trivial < 1343083009 337751 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has branches and everything < 1343083069 279280 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a brainfuck interpreter in sed? < 1343083071 511427 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So implementing, say, find in make would count, but completely changing the fundamentals of make so you can implement an OS in it and then implementing an OS is... kind of ugly. < 1343083096 59997 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, there's a compiler. < 1343083108 604316 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: where? < 1343083118 346484 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shinh.skr.jp/obf/ < 1343083133 566064 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shinh.skr.jp/koneta/bfx.sed, specifically. < 1343083150 164583 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiler doesn't count. < 1343083159 797846 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It compiles brainfuck code into linux ELF binary." :D < 1343083175 797221 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note it doesn't specify which architecture. < 1343083192 363942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some way to make hexadecimal numbers in Csound? < 1343083226 446560 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:FireFly/sedfuck.sed < 1343083232 414635 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- whatever "half-working" means. < 1343083238 544642 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly by use macros? < 1343083247 768506 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember < 1343083248 564635 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask FireFly. < 1343083252 781563 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1343083256 811667 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit FireFly < 1343083282 821220 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I didn't implement ., < 1343083293 464471 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: looks like x86 < 1343083294 562954 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not , at least < 1343083314 605822 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well yes, that's the obvious one. < 1343083324 204629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HireFly < 1343083339 89835 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :LongtimenosireFly < 1343083347 250639 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. it is lunix on 6502 < 1343083385 133066 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc is turing complete? < 1343083401 782496 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :is make tc? < 1343083406 28919 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, yes. < 1343083430 746842 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unbounded recursion is simple, since it allows arbitrary execution of stored code. < 1343083479 560057 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: make together with cat is almost certainly tc < 1343083487 276831 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1343083496 302842 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if an included file is changed Make restarts < 1343083515 504071 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just have a Makefile that includes a bunch of its own targets < 1343083555 623997 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think running any commands is cheating < 1343083586 301069 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :combining $(patsubst) and recursive make (or some other way of doing unbounded recursion/restarting) should be turing complete though < 1343083586 993231 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to agree with olsner here. < 1343083634 61129 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the computational class on cpp? < 1343083739 124477 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muddy. < 1343083771 183957 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about computational class of yacc/lex? < 1343083778 405288 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's TC if certain conditions are guaranteed, but they aren't in many implementations. < 1343083785 565749 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea about those. < 1343083804 968985 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C's arguably not TC, but that's another kettle of worms. < 1343083820 390060 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1343083843 854830 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we decided beyond arguably that C is not TC < 1343083851 380903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Even with files? < 1343083851 532293 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1343083857 770507 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I wasn't listening at the time. < 1343083868 929290 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, sizeof must return a finite integer for all types. < 1343083877 607378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if char is storing any integer? < 1343083880 660206 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: basically because pointers have a constant size so you can't have infinite memory < 1343083884 370325 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So pointers are bounded, so there's a finite bound on addressable memory. < 1343083890 883582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But files! < 1343083897 22652 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, chars have to have a fixed number of bits. < 1343083902 643785 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :files might be an escape hatch, if they can be infinite size < 1343083909 527036 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fstat. < 1343083940 288038 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Does it always have to be 8-bits? < 1343083941 881527 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess fstat /dev/random must break that counterpoint. < 1343083950 2855 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't think so. < 1343083951 298688 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1343084006 616404 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1343084009 357266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think POSIX allows ftell() to fail. < 1343084040 168558 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembler is not turing complete as well? < 1343084096 729997 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory addressing also has a size limit. < 1343084255 193665 :nortti_!~juhani@a91-154-82-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1343084341 578242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"assembler" isn't a language. < 1343084370 266400 :MDude!~fyrc@c-174-55-44-190.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1343084399 713414 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1343084422 833182 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro assemblers might be turing-complete < 1343084776 630527 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a family of programming languages then. < 1343084811 183392 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allow assembler as a shortcut for assembly language < 1343084857 501697 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a translation error < 1343084866 573001 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in german there is no assembly <-> assembler distinction < 1343084884 162533 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever. < 1343084974 152636 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : olsner: I think POSIX allows ftell() to fail. < 1343084995 322776 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TbH if you're going to include POSIX it's a bit of a stretch to call it C. < 1343085033 124662 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clear that C is not TC without standard libraries, can we leave it at that? < 1343085049 519224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OK, but I think ANSI C allows that extension. < 1343085083 179962 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kind of think the stdlib should count though, making it TC if you use files for storage? < 1343085085 364629 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1343085106 745100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The question is whether ftell() makes it TinC again. < 1343085116 675007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think the answer was no because it can fail. < 1343085186 550765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re size of char, it's CHAR_BIT bits, which is >= 8. < 1343085314 947297 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last time I think there was also some discussion on whether the stack needs to be finite even if you don't take pointers to elements in it, but that's perhaps not a terribly interesting way to go. < 1343085317 965293 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what's to stop the sizes of everything being infinity? < 1343085351 940296 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does 'the stack' actually exist in C, especially less standard libs? < 1343085367 13887 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: CHAR_BIT, I think < 1343085370 336759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizeof returns a size_t, which is an unsigned integer type, and sizeof (size_t) must be some integer. < 1343085397 793191 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, why didn't K&R just say 'ordinal' instead. < 1343085500 808272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's no 'the stack', but there's 'a stack' implied by the way functions are called and return, even if it's not implemented in a stacky way. Still, that doesn't help a whole lot. < 1343085548 853131 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :one idea would be a stratified C where your program restarts with double the pointer size after running out of memory, though that probably breaks some rules < 1343085587 37362 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, it's just not C. < 1343085600 11572 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's C-with-TC-duct-tape. < 1343085608 328427 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1343085638 331811 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, the stdlib isn't just defined by POSIX < 1343085646 506041 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C standard itself defines a lot of it < 1343085647 411721 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I know. < 1343085649 675535 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I meant a C implementation that did that "transparently" < 1343085698 653702 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But arguably you could have something like int f(void) { char c = get(); if (c == 'a') if (f() == FAIL) return FAIL; if (get() != 'b') return FAIL; return ACCEPT; } that recognizes a^n b^n, something you can't do without some form of unbounded storage, that could be allowed to work for arbitrary n since there are no user-visible pointers involved. (Doesn't make it TC, of course, it's just a ... < 1343085704 672718 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... comment on the storageness.) < 1343085758 940604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modulo bugs in that code, but you get the idea. < 1343085763 112742 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be tempted to declare c with storage class register, thereby guaranteeing that we won't & it < 1343085791 948514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write it withot 'c' as well if you like. < 1343085814 584560 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's nothing that you could even take pointers of. < 1343085887 59257 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :See why I said 'arguably' now, olsner? < 1343085915 685434 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1343085928 176379 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1343085959 118844 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello monqy we are debating the tcness of c, do join the 'fune' as you call it < 1343086000 926665 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PART :#esoteric < 1343086007 520368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1343086024 16858 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the files do provide an easier way for a C implementation to provide an infinite tape that more or less fits within the rules, that's for sure. < 1343086040 239633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, one of those implementations running on a machine with infinite tapes available. < 1343086058 741464 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION grabs his USB infinite tape device.
< 1343086136 915980 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :To nitpick on my own comment, sizeof is an operator and therefore never "returns" anything, it just yields a value. < 1343086255 476855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Going to sleeb now.) < 1343086317 441044 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang on, the behaviour of >> on signed types is implementation-defined, right? < 1343086334 681334 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it arithmetic overflow on signed types that's implementation-defined < 1343086352 251219 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.211.127 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the former, we can have >> yield the bits that were previously <> to magically add invisible bits, any piece of data is a series of bytes each having a constant number of bits, and those bits should be enough to recreate the original value < 1343087423 485660 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1343087456 252223 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1343087995 906311 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric