< 1345075272 311655 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did work experience in RBS once, muha...ha? < 1345075294 58108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the ? was implicitly asking about it < 1345075366 350324 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, back in high school, over the summer I would work for the school district doing things like putting RAM into the computers or vacuuming the insides of computers < 1345075381 59358 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly meanial computer stuff < 1345075394 369565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1345076260 303499 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1345076273 330257 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1345077396 406456 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1345078205 914749 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345078330 914034 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345078339 874290 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345080438 997377 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have recorded this session of Dungeons&Dragons game now. < 1345080501 720892 :derdon_!~derdon@p5DE8AF5E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345080625 421891 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom__Hoover monqy new album < 1345080683 507297 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8B1B5.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1345081288 823879 :NihilistDandy!~ND@65-183-140-119-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net QUIT : < 1345081564 775024 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1345081722 898300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345081753 331832 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is there anything worth getting in the humble android bundle? < 1345081773 173476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, I don't know about the other games, but Uplink is good < 1345081826 622255 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey cool, I can get an internet connection in my Linux partition again. < 1345081861 573297 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i dont have a tablet < 1345081901 846574 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, is the PC version available if you buy the bundle? < 1345081913 358030 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayes < 1345081938 191586 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it run in 1gig of RAM? < 1345081951 788056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from 2000, so probably. < 1345082044 901803 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1345082441 504495 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are all commands of Ragaraja are undefined? < 1345082561 756734 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ragaraja says what he wants and you better do it or else < 1345082571 231164 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesnt have to predefine his commands < 1345082578 890472 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :his commands are his wishes < 1345082722 389275 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345082727 878180 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345083270 480056 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1345083478 178281 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys < 1345083480 864972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges work < 1345083555 875203 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to? < 1345083638 152103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1345083984 532001 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345083989 912121 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345084126 985432 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345084860 201310 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345087497 183397 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :pumpkin < 1345087567 762817 :heroux_!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1345087586 910452 :pumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1345087668 83948 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1345087668 266092 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1345087686 954125 :variable!root@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-kzctpiewwwnelzvg JOIN :#esoteric < 1345087687 253068 :variable!root@gateway/shell/trekweb.org/x-kzctpiewwwnelzvg QUIT :Changing host < 1345087687 399135 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1345087693 562749 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1345087741 477161 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :*.net *.split < 1345090617 112305 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345091217 540767 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345091316 821209 :jlaire_!~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi NICK :jlaire < 1345092177 191981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345092225 309849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: messages? < 1345092243 742638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's @messages? :) < 1345092247 21783 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1345092320 250806 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @messages? :) < 1345092320 758610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, no messages today. < 1345092329 488615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: @botpoison :'( < 1345092329 860025 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1345092721 95392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it'd tell me if I had messages if I said anything at all < 1345092726 913774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1345092727 747923 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1345092731 851135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that was redundant :) < 1345092736 569361 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not quite true < 1345092742 919145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION if you use ACTIONs, it won't bother you
< 1345092749 430498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some other way I think but I forget what it is < 1345092750 545952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I didn't know that < 1345093025 953973 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you know that in Python2, random.choice('aá') will randomly return one of ['a','\xc3','\xa1']? < 1345093095 400056 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about u'aá'? < 1345093135 591570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that works. < 1345093241 484889 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's just how Python strings are. < 1345093348 322636 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess 'foo' is like a ByteString, encoded with some arbitrary encoding, and u'foo' is like Text. Or something. < 1345093363 479906 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, you have to indicate if you want byte strings or Unicode strings. I do not think it is a problem < 1345093425 849049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. I just didn't know Python worked that way. < 1345093753 945875 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: oonbotti < 1345093855 21932 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91.154.82.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345094041 551374 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91.154.82.50 QUIT :Client Quit < 1345094156 11798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clearer in Python 3. < 1345094160 116830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :str is renamed to bytes and so on. < 1345094216 801936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unicode is renamed to str? < 1345094235 530462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, computers are bad. Can I have a copy of @? < 1345094250 287260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1345094254 609107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I think so? Not sure. < 1345094257 540604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not. < 1345094263 554362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1345094297 49311 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@a91-154-82-50.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345094463 827962 :derdon_!~derdon@p5DE8AF5E.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1345097885 855321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1345099584 416762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1345099668 42525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing a continuation monad seem to do in Haskell is to build up a data structure, including backward. Does a continuation in a different programming language does something similar? < 1345100556 711876 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I'm not entirely sure, but I think the Continuation monad is delimited continuations < 1345100599 26704 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Cont in Haskell? < 1345100611 237150 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So delimited continuations in other languages might be able to do similar. I should note that I'm not thinking this through at the moment, just remembering what I've seen things called < 1345100626 947016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on what primitives you provide. < 1345100655 756853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write shift/reset for Cont, or you can write callCC (or others). < 1345100775 303570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does shift/reset mean? < 1345100797 637084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delimited_continuation < 1345100831 207735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other programming language continuation is usually callCC, in Haskell we can have callCC but also the monad operations (fmap/return/join/bind) and the operation of its type ((x->r)->r) < 1345100856 387739 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345100949 360265 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to bring monads into every language he touches
< 1345100961 525072 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how plausible that would be for Prolog < 1345100989 205426 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly, now with monads < 1345101039 31231 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before having a monad you need a category. It could be the category of the functions in that programming language, though, so if the functions can perform I/O operations it could be like Haskell's (Kleisli IO) category. And then you define fmap, return, join, having the proper laws on that category. < 1345101140 843626 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly with JavaScript you could have, if M is the monad, then M itself is the return operation and then M.prototype.join and M.prototype.map for the others. < 1345101789 377691 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345101789 848656 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345101854 435499 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1345102254 898918 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345102532 183603 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345103846 448515 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345103965 488639 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1345104055 886644 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345104307 592059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I read about the delimited continuations. < 1345104361 331895 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they similar to their reset being (flip runCont id) and their shift being (cont)? < 1345104382 779566 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1345104429 376087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Did you see edwardk's puzzle with newtype Mu f = Mu (forall a. (f a -> a) -> a); data Nu f = forall a. Nu a (a -> f a); newtype Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f)) < 1345104507 974868 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I did not see. < 1345104529 585366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the puzzle is just to write conversion functions. < 1345105783 698679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345105791 697069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345105905 704206 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1345106373 632640 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1345106853 270496 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345107243 67434 :liljuska!~lilja@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345107825 901425 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1345108140 964746 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1345109321 48072 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://writelatex.com < 1345109652 999424 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do laptops charge slower when they're on? < 1345109703 643224 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always assumed so, but maybe the max charge rate of the battery is much less than the available power < 1345109967 447352 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1345109990 709208 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1345109993 782684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1345110019 933235 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345110182 402091 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1345110360 745316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run time | echo < 1345110371 277530 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `|' \ bash: -c: line 0: `time | echo' < 1345110378 217165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1345110383 240155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: try that command in csh some time < 1345110394 997211 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :% time | echo < 1345110395 143362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :% < 1345110403 420447 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, did they fix it? < 1345110405 400574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mostly fix it < 1345110417 306785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should still give an error message, due to being meaningless < 1345110434 436120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to give a really nonsensical error < 1345110469 324717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, is that actually csh, or tcsh pretending? < 1345110495 190368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/bsd-csh < 1345110509 593402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1345110520 87541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try it with Debian's/Ubuntu's, installing it now < 1345110534 56041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Debian. < 1345110546 55715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The package csh installs /bin/bsd-csh < 1345110559 658061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1345110610 753095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, it seems that "time | echo" actually spawns a process < 1345110614 469011 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :called "time |" < 1345110617 442996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try looking in jobs < 1345110630 17041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :% time | echo < 1345110631 473152 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :% jobs < 1345110632 968906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] + Running time | < 1345110634 470099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :% Reset tty pgrp from 11937 to 11927 < 1345110637 107179 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, they didn't fix it, it's just intermittent < 1345110655 814777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "Reset tty pgrp" thing got printed after the prompt % , I didn't type it) < 1345110778 816886 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1345110968 616926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the message I was angling for, btw) < 1345110987 452623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, time | eventually dies with SIGPIPE, some considerable time after you ran it < 1345111567 592503 :heroux_!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1345111631 898164 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1345111650 998360 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1345111901 894487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you know the source of 2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1; being typed on the command line when catting /dev/urandom? < 1345112306 536336 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :A low amount of entropy I imagine < 1345112338 928002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being typed. As in, my shell is getting it as input. < 1345112438 423883 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1345112444 896527 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be some escape code < 1345112557 196735 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg JOIN :#esoteric < 1345113512 296204 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1345113907 844654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is scared of Mauriceling's BF derivs
< 1345113929 699934 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1345113933 508061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's probably an escape code that asks for information in response < 1345113941 912219 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sure, but which one? < 1345113944 894353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1345113969 80659 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of HTTP access log trojans < 1345114006 215356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to insert escape codes in your user agent, so that if someone cats their access log to a terminal, it sends data back into the terminal to run arbitrary commands < 1345114019 312770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although most modern terminals are immune nowadays < 1345114055 595017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same sort of concept as sending people to shock sites via XSS attacks on plain text files… < 1345114747 820978 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the webserver doesn't tell the browser that it's plain text and not html? < 1345114876 465499 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345115213 533648 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1345115756 73550 :mig22!~miguelort@bb116-15-1-16.singnet.com.sg QUIT :Quit: mig22 < 1345116171 491840 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1345116192 21027 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345117648 674573 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1345117975 748164 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345118321 709979 :liljuska!~lilja@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1345119166 686935 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1345119530 598856 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1345119533 820719 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a fine day < 1345119546 351423 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :found a bug in Boost libs < 1345119572 591549 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :win 13 < 1345120181 658932 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another more meta way to do an attack would be to lie about something in a readme file < 1345120217 529101 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not sure what < 1345120267 826969 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe recommend an antiquated terminal in a readme file < 1345120275 351565 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345120286 615801 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345120302 597562 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1345120308 546778 :itidus21!~itidus21@120.148.51.163 PRIVMSG #esoteric :<-- dumb. nevermind.. < 1345121166 508863 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: which lib < 1345121322 257669 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystem < 1345121376 60089 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1345121379 380412 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :what didn't work? < 1345121678 585976 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345122844 691129 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1345122937 298051 :derdon!~derdon@p5DE8AF5E.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345123434 404388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1345123849 336211 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345124117 272761 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: I just had this issue with boost::lexical_cast; it seems to cast "9001" to 2329 ? < 1345124211 815982 :jlaire!~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: o_O < 1345124278 139823 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've probably done something wrong < 1345124289 152001 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weird thing is < 1345124301 133531 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added an output statement on the variable that I'm casting < 1345124305 665870 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on the result < 1345124351 841242 :jlaire!~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste or it didn't happen! < 1345124545 166859 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-73.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1345125011 279941 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :jlaire: I would have to paste over 2000 lines of code that I'm not even supposed to paste :( < 1345125018 707409 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it always happens < 1345125033 536648 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try whether it does < 1345126782 77995 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1345127056 738604 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm about to spam < 1345127058 199803 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : std::string port_s = address.substr(pos2 + 1); < 1345127058 346023 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : std::cout << "Port string: " << port_s << std::endl; < 1345127058 346224 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : int port = boost::lexical_cast(port_s); < 1345127058 346333 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : std::cout << "Port number: " << port << std::endl; < 1345127078 283060 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :output: < 1345127079 954634 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port string: 9001 < 1345127080 100685 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port number: 2329 < 1345127130 728595 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a lexical cast the correct way to convert a string to integer? < 1345127226 308525 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1345127264 756096 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_50_0/doc/html/boost_lexical_cast/synopsis.html#boost_lexical_cast.synopsis.lexical_cast < 1345127692 409889 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always the atoi() way of casting a string to an int: http://pastebin.com/5iDifJhC < 1345127829 142137 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :atoi() is the C way < 1345128067 732538 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1345128110 557429 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm only one very lazy programmer when it comes to C++. < 1345130193 833367 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about atoi < 1345130203 169223 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I (and many others) dislike it < 1345130218 811348 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexical_cast is much more generally < 1345130256 213040 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: your example works with lexical_cast equally well, but it's just this particular situation (I must be doing something wrong) < 1345130285 663864 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :also isn't writing (void) as arguments a typical C thing to do < 1345131314 203940 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what < 1345131325 796588 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :int port = std::atoi("9001"); still gives me the same < 1345131374 824056 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that's weird < 1345131408 257602 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is < 1345131422 136249 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :this works in any other file < 1345131428 399366 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not in my current project < 1345131451 333343 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in this file < 1345131513 362609 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compiled a test case and I get 9001 < 1345131529 165689 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :My tests cases give me 9001 too < 1345131587 681218 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand it < 1345131625 241627 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can std::cout << boost::lexical_cast("9001") << std::endl; or std::cout << std::atoi("9001") << std::endl; ever output 2329 < 1345131639 165743 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put that literally in my code < 1345131711 93380 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :8001 = 1f41 < 1345131713 505793 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1345131719 358 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexadecimal? < 1345131725 151896 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1345131728 218512 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1345131736 7469 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :cout is in hexadecimal mode < 1345131739 480974 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1345131743 177224 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must be it < 1345131745 689741 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know why < 1345131760 202718 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere else I was outputting hexadecimal numbers < 1345131761 555400 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S < 1345131769 132837 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid error -> time waste < 1345131781 134522 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot to turn that flag of :( < 1345131794 634373 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1345131817 746683 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what happens when your output routines have hidden state < 1345131852 479538 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :'( < 1345131871 174649 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :rage against std::ostream! < 1345131940 514840 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually solved the actual bug in the code there a long time a go < 1345131957 794640 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the output was just still wrong :/ < 1345133580 908033 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1345133942 120793 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-73.elisa.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1345134043 146652 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-57.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1345134803 711506 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-57.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1345135092 805336 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-12.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1345137891 137317 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345138150 538233 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1345138988 344388 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345139059 301036 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i don't know < 1345139079 506091 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you figure it out? < 1345139115 445772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that one. < 1345139120 563241 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :butts < 1345139125 929242 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out another one. < 1345139130 582690 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah? < 1345139134 263593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :c62;9; < 1345139134 415024 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have you been trying to figure out? < 1345139146 933964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just from an escape sequence. < 1345139150 20619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like \e[c < 1345139158 486163 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: There was a bigger mystery, though. < 1345139175 401839 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember how cat /dev/urandom used to turn your terminal to line-drawing mode? < 1345139193 419864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hasn't happened in a while, has it? At least it hasn't for me. < 1345139205 662848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were trying to figure it out, and there were various theories. < 1345139229 567205 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A surprising observation was that catting /dev/urandom for a bit, followed by printf '\e(0', wouldn't turn box-mode on. < 1345139243 754469 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So somehow there's an escape sequence that disables it or something. < 1345139253 393678 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a terminal bug < 1345139258 396522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible. < 1345139285 839970 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in here should know all the vt100 codes by heart and be able to tell you directly if there's a sequence to disable box-mode and what it is < 1345139315 371149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: There were mysterioius happenings, though. < 1345139323 638293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I don't remember, partly because it's 10:48 and I still haven't slept. < 1345139360 187141 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can look through /usr/share/doc/xterm/ctlseqs.txt.gz < 1345139399 673293 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always reset your terminal < 1345139505 244313 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would we learn from that? < 1345139525 384134 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it literally always possible to reset the terminal, or is it possible to end up in a state where the terminal is unrecoverable? < 1345139536 488371 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a code which explicitly means "reset terminal" < 1345139549 263093 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if it's usable even inside like "i'm sending you a new window title now" mode < 1345139596 629637 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how secure terminal emulators tend to be < 1345139613 968023 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you use them to connect to evil servers < 1345139653 182717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, why does `reset` take a really long time to run? < 1345139666 133759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes `reset` isn't enough. < 1345139684 381364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sometimes you get into a state where the terminal is messed up even after typing reset into your shell. < 1345139706 353132 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e95e/ seems related < 1345139723 230038 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you do? < 1345139744 931611 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: did you know that in the Linux VT (but not in any X terminal emulator i've found) you can enter line drawing mode with the single byte 0E? < 1345139780 362228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Oh, wow, that explains why it's so much easier to get into it in the TTY! < 1345139791 949163 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: run reset inside script and then look at the typescript < 1345139795 584492 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did this but forgot the results < 1345139804 58233 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it sets all the tabstops < 1345139811 838328 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may have a hardcoded delay between sending control codes < 1345139828 155570 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Hmm, but \e(0 doesn't work. < 1345139829 605674 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345139925 727357 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1345139966 777762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you see edwardk's puzzles with Mu and Nu? < 1345139984 676399 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1345139986 468711 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it that happens when binary data results in crud getting passed back as input? usually it looks something like semicolon-separated hex values < 1345140001 3590 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some codes to ask for terminal status < 1345140003 912503 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :look through /usr/share/doc/xterm/ctlseqs.txt.gz < 1345140005 114871 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = Mu (forall a. (f a -> a) -> a) < 1345140008 938075 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on debian) < 1345140016 552436 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Nu f = forall a. Nu a (a -> f a) < 1345140022 934893 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Fix f = Fix (f (Fix f)) < 1345140027 777083 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1345140040 140782 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea was to write functions to convert these back and forth. < 1345140097 77881 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctlseqs.txt is 1540 lines here, that's almost exactly 64 screens of text < 1345140112 186367 :monqy!~swell@pool-71-102-219-42.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345140203 658006 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ah, i understand now < 1345140223 795960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Understand what? < 1345140228 316562 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x0e (ascii SO) means "shift to the G1 character set" (and \x0f = SI means switch to G0) < 1345140243 142146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's G1? < 1345140243 616162 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\e(0 sets the G0 character set to be line drawing characters < 1345140253 635353 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :G0 and G1 are variables which can be assigned to different character sets < 1345140265 716423 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1345140269 300335 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Linux VT, G0 = US ASCII and G1 = line drawing, by default < 1345140272 224482 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in xterm they are both ASCII < 1345140283 573773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1345140293 380007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cata is Fix f -> Mu f < 1345140296 117350 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you do \x0e in xterm, then \e(0 has no effect < 1345140307 9659 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now \e)0 (set G1 = line drawing) will have a visible effect < 1345140361 895186 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you set both G0 and G1 to line drawing, \x0e and \x0f will no longer have any effect? < 1345140367 533327 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1345140371 94720 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no visible effect) < 1345140423 219213 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe the vt doesn't allow reassigning G0 < 1345140440 580397 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so \e(0 might be disallowed? < 1345140445 774454 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1345140449 222117 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1345140462 376182 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fear that to be more knowledgable on this subject, i would have to read ISO 2022 < 1345140473 38312 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it would be better to just have a "choose character set" instruction, instead of all these states < 1345140488 944382 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would cost like CHF 40 and my soul < 1345140496 318797 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i know, right? < 1345140512 793957 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but! that would take three bytes per switch < 1345140544 30492 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're trying to do e.g. switch to japanese every other character on a 3 baud modem, that might be significant < 1345140649 409467 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you can printf '\e(C' in xterm for the 7-bit finnish experience < 1345140724 878157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I've had enough of the Finnish experience trying to type on Finnish-layouted keyboards. :-( < 1345140730 866332 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345140731 786146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also had enough of the French experience. < 1345140737 969762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :AZERTY is the devil. < 1345140765 676389 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that brings back memories < 1345140921 357246 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you do printf '\e)0\e~' within LC_ALL=C xterm < 1345140932 446513 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can get line-drawing characters using bytes within the range 80 - FF < 1345140975 614991 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out you can set which of G0, G1, etc. is used by each half of the byte space independently < 1345140984 210183 :Taneb!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net NICK :atriq < 1345140984 907265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense. < 1345140989 203483 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1345140996 87620 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1345141015 158012 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that sets up upper-half characters to use G1, after setting G1 to line-drawing? < 1345141015 662781 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing in computer engineering makes sense except in the light of evolution < 1345141019 937813 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1345141032 148186 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_2022 < 1345141039 793284 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1345141040 173455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1345141044 670613 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reassuring < 1345141113 666472 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes when you say ping something says pong, it's amazing < 1345141142 7194 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ping < 1345141155 234970 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone built an esoterm, how would its control characters look? < 1345141171 324738 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ping < 1345141176 761892 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pong! < 1345141188 182735 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ping < 1345141195 544641 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1345141201 201485 :nortti!nortti@smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it would be a brainfuck program outputting the normal ansi control code < 1345141218 178517 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather make control characters be words in a popular language so they're easy to remember < 1345141221 89836 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, Chinese < 1345141227 517509 :Lumpio-!~matti@62-113-182-248.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably condense all of them down to a single character. < 1345141244 793495 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the early terminals had e.g. 8080 cpus, you could start with something like that connected to a frame buffer and just send it the whole instruction stream < 1345141285 991821 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't even need an instruction pointer or a stored program < 1345141386 494272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Linux console you could use shift-out/shift-in to use line drawing. You could also use the program I have written to allow the entire CP437 to be used on Linux including shift-out/shift-in. < 1345141649 65598 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore I think you should just use the Linux console codes. < 1345141661 459933 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Regardless of if it is CP437 or not) < 1345141890 918924 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1345141891 624192 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1345141901 976244 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is everything down for everyone else again < 1345142062 401600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Are you still in .fi? < 1345142062 759631 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, everything's back up < 1345142195 429204 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's good < 1345144490 339602 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Good Friday is a statutory holiday, and if you want to have separation of church and state, then the laws should include the way to caluclate Easter isn't it? < 1345144508 735673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since otherwise you don't have the separation of church and state. < 1345144518 476060 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I suppose < 1345144776 979739 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-12.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1345144784 991828 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1345144790 510145 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmm < 1345144826 245195 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfThing :: [BFChar] -> RWS [Word8] [Word8] Tape () < 1345145634 698692 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data BFChar = L | R | P | M | S | E; data Tape = Tape {lhs :: [Word8], rhs :: [Word8]} < 1345145662 790900 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- writing a brainfuck interpreter thingy using IRC as a text editor may be a bad idea < 1345145882 667245 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- I don't think I'll bother < 1345145904 141414 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-16-4.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1345146157 544947 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1345146316 240341 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345146497 915433 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure that type for bfThing is correct anyways < 1345146577 199587 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe it is < 1345146620 927443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1345146777 301270 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use "local tail" to reduce the input? < 1345146802 108028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t local tail < 1345146803 992089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a (m :: * -> *) a1. (MonadReader [a] m) => m a1 -> m a1 < 1345146805 823121 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can, I think so < 1345146858 974912 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t local tail . ($) < 1345146861 230997 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a a1. ([a] -> a1) -> [a] -> a1 < 1345146876 533602 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "local" does not belong to the Kleisli category (although that might not be important) < 1345146884 356396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> local tail . head $ "test" < 1345146886 848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `m a' < 1345146886 219616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1345146893 115020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1345146896 961925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :og < 1345146900 300456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oh < 1345146908 96 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> local tail head "test" < 1345146910 568770 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'e' < 1345146946 257119 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ybmmh/we_are_engineers_and_scientists_on_the_mars/c5u7qm7 < 1345147073 13803 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: hey just apply for a job at nasa already :P < 1345147076 158328 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345147104 16496 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Do you have an opening for a photoshopper?” < 1345147152 580232 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd work on the presentation. or rather, i'd suggest you do. < 1345147205 824317 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it's coming up to a year since I joined this channel < 1345147206 20494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, they probably fired the old one after budget cuts. < 1345147216 509747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1345147232 561682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems shorter. but years always do. < 1345147233 39145 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the first time, not this time < 1345147242 701855 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlogs Taneb < 1345147245 737407 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found < 1345147254 834267 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog Taneb < 1345147270 768965 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear < 1345147273 778497 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad idea < 1345147287 875867 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1345147293 876122 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1345147295 479592 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1345147301 197586 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /bin < 1345147304 574868 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ less \ lessecho \ lessfile \ lesskey \ lesspipe \ ln \ login \ ls \ lsmod \ mkdir \ mknod \ mktemp < 1345147353 737799 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1345147356 689129 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom < 1345147362 34218 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /paste < 1345147364 987937 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access /paste: No such file or directory < 1345147370 157809 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file paste < 1345147373 685302 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste: directory < 1345147379 566008 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1345147477 268635 :Eladith!~eladith@gzrrplox.kortex.jyu.fi QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1345147537 140592 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1345147646 175176 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1345147761 720656 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I think I first appeared here on the 11th of July 2011 < 1345147793 156963 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello! < 1345147821 920672 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1345147826 468699 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, over a year already < 1345147828 163667 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1345147849 838983 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody welcomed me that day < 1345147881 790748 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ atriq < 1345147885 441453 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ＡＴＲＩＱ：　ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ　ＴＯ　ＴＨＥ　ＩＮＴＥＲＮＡＴＩＯＮＡＬ　ＨＵＢ　ＦＯＲ　ＥＳＯＴＥＲＩＣ　ＰＲＯＧＲＡＭＭＩＮＧ　ＬＡＮＧＵＡＧＥ　ＤＥＳＩＧＮ　ＡＮＤ　ＤＥＰＬＯＹＭＥＮＴ！　ＦＯＲ　ＭＯＲＥ　ＩＮＦＯＲＭＡＴＩＯＮ，　ＣＨＥＣＫ　ＯＵＴ　ＯＵＲ　ＷＩＫＩ：　ＨＴＴＰ：／／ＥＳＯＬＡＮＧＳ． < 1345147895 422352 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ngevd < 1345147898 267347 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q���e�K{.[��. < 1345147923 419183 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn atriq is rot13 for something. Needs further investigation. < 1345147926 17803 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1345147958 296951 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ngevd < 1345147961 475653 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​!�e�..�+�.V���.�\T/���>03N��.&."t�..d.{�D�_M��w���'�����n�,t;-�x�ɼ..�5��\�_���Ҝ�..�|.�w�^��..��ѧ��j�$.VG@dB��J��9$.�g.&%.��.��.q�=������`���j \ i.��_�.MB��'�3.c�H.�.�.���.>�CX...�x�@?�.��>��K..��.=U�gP#bfuy�+0��!�lA���.�.��\.W�(8�=��߾�� �`�.wu�� < 1345147975 451926 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Taneb < 1345147978 567846 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. < 1345147982 139874 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Hexham < 1345147985 252933 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham is a European town. There are nine people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Taneb looks after the ham. < 1345148017 468157 :atriq!~Taneb@host-84-13-68-40.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Quit: AAAAH HEADACHE < 1345148136 353301 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make a (Codensity ((->) x)) monad to be like a (State x) monad? And what do you make from (Codensity (State x)) monad? < 1345148255 8096 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1345148501 105381 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: are you a professional photoshopper < 1345148512 269004 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured out how to make double negative elimination by continuation monads. < 1345148514 42646 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... questionmark < 1345148549 556641 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Just an amateur gimper. < 1345148565 334764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do NASA need any professional photoshopper? Don't they have their own software? < 1345148586 803255 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :they need to apply some color filters to make mars images mars red < 1345148599 857113 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... so that people don't think they're fake < 1345148643 894152 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think they have their own software for that, isn't it? < 1345148692 893113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think the purpose of that is to make the picture more clear, not because of thinking they are fake? Since the picture from the camera is imperfect. < 1345148693 951940 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, but perhaps photoshop would be way better at it only they have no qualified personel to operate it < 1345148728 202129 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I don't think Photoshop would be better at it. < 1345148738 384581 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1345148751 78660 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to figure out a way for ion to get a job at NASA < 1345148757 770741 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345148797 918690 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use ImageMagick (I think ImageMagick even supports the formats used in astronomy) but don't know enough about the camera and that stuff to know what filters to use. Their own specific software might work better for this purpose, though. < 1345148809 373167 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that he can become known as "ion: the man who finnished NASA" < 1345148815 895852 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, oops. i thought this chan is about esoteric programming languages :D sorry < 1345148831 433405 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :morel: It is but people say many other thing too < 1345148841 894033 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1345148892 944819 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome morel < 1345148896 884053 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :morel: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1345148907 794959 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1345148920 481957 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's #esoteric@irc.dal.net?? < 1345148924 470823 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what < 1345148940 413727 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is HackEgo written in brainfuck? :) < 1345148948 417029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, no. < 1345148956 241229 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite sure what the "other kind of esoterica" is, but ghosts and stuff I guess < 1345148960 426477 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A neopagan channel. < 1345148960 573015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WHERE IS FUNGOT < 1345148961 390466 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1345148986 335968 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote poltergeist < 1345148990 127553 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1345148993 454872 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, neat. lambdabot is here, too <3 < 1345149048 776954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf bf_txtgen Egobot knows many esolangs. < 1345149049 918281 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, thanks to my brilliant diplomacy. < 1345149050 681999 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1345149053 178832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1345149057 69507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf_txtgen Egobot knows many esolangs. < 1345149060 879014 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​278 ++++++++++++++[>++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>-.>+++++.>-.<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++.+++++.<++++.>>++++.+++.>.<<+++.----.<.>>-.------------.>-.<<++++++.<.>>++++.<------.----.---.>----.>.<++++++.>+++++.<<<++++++++++++++.------------------------------------. [751] < 1345149068 546198 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@faq Can Haskell create a such a heavy-weight stone such that it can't even hold the stone itself? < 1345149069 250447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. < 1345149073 686622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++++++++++[>++>+++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>>-.>+++++.>-.<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++.+++++.<++++.>>++++.+++.>.<<+++.----.<.>>-.------------.>-.<<++++++.<.>>++++.<------.----.---.>----.>.<++++++.>+++++.<<<++++++++++++++.------------------------------------. < 1345149074 204886 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Egobot knows many esolangs. < 1345149111 258681 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1345149132 799956 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "Egobot knows many esolangs." -- the haskell version < 1345149134 694203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Egobot knows many esolangs." < 1345149141 466297 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1345149200 898252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask ghost and stuff if you want, too, I suppose, but generally that is not the topic here. But a lot of stuff are ask that are not quite the topic here, anyways. But still you should read the wiki of esolang if you are able to do so. < 1345149248 643010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? zzo38 < 1345149251 536851 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem. < 1345149281 255092 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? boily < 1345149284 451926 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1345149286 241532 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oerjan < 1345149289 677196 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. < 1345149305 450489 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo doesn't know about me :-/... < 1345149312 607215 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? olsner < 1345149316 351469 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1345149321 506135 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time I checked it didn't know about me either < 1345149336 246437 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :People make a link of a file on Wikipedia someone else thought resembles the portrait of me, but I think it is actually a drawing, even though some people don't agree. < 1345149338 663072 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. I'm a known unknown in the set of unknowns. < 1345149346 515481 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Do *you* know about you? < 1345149366 424109 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not a lot, but I seem to exist at least < 1345149369 636800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "boily may be French or something. We are not sure about the rest." >wisdom/boily < 1345149372 369196 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1345149448 187019 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo "boily may be French or something. We are not sure about the rest." >wisdom/boily < 1345149451 219701 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1345149456 805619 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? boily < 1345149459 851072 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily may be French or something. We are not sure about the rest. < 1345149463 663108 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1345149497 665657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn olsner seems to exist at least. < 1345149497 813333 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the vagueness of it. < 1345149501 439096 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1345149505 710917 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? olsner < 1345149509 4188 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner seems to exist at least. < 1345149523 192094 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat underwhelmingly wise < 1345149541 947038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL YOU DIDN'T GIVE US MUCH INFORMATION TO GO BY < 1345149550 660139 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :SORRY < 1345149550 806164 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, i'm in .ie for the night and then back to .us tomorrow afternoon < 1345149715 798177 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want aerogel now < 1345149742 200561 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theromos with aerogel insulation would be neat >.> < 1345149754 909073 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Thermos < 1345149771 665226 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hard is it to sustain a comparably insulating partial vacuum? < 1345150033 570903 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aerogel may also be more fun to play with >.> < 1345150262 278980 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, uh, what's standard Thermos flask vacuum? < 1345150306 219027 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1345150313 921559 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just seems like it should be cheaper than aerogel >_< < 1345150447 495308 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-126-72.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1345150449 387278 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on the internet claims that thermal conductivity does not decrease much with decreased gas pressure o.O < 1345150475 502085 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=210603 < 1345150574 491251 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1345150575 845261 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.shivershield.com/ < 1345150583 286324 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clothing made with aerogel for insulation < 1345150634 567308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it is very expensive. < 1345150779 762565 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, hmm, that does say that convection is the reason partial vacuums insulate. < 1345150814 632287 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1345150923 803339 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if clothing with vacuum insulation could ever make sense
< 1345150937 127062 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1345150953 708021 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The concept of a flexible vacuum chamber is... impractical. < 1345151227 184598 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zocS3sxi0Q < 1345151570 431659 :morel!~user@dslb-088-067-138-009.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just implemented the lambda-calculus with bruijn-indexes in haskell =) < 1345151696 793707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT ONLY COUNTS IF YOU DO IT IN THE TYPE SYSTEM < 1345152034 550921 :soundnfury!~edward@109.176.207.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1345152104 526437 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK YOU MEAN THE KIND SYSTEM < 1345152137 863472 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION drops his pants
< 1345152188 324048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sanetemp -310 < 1345152191 863491 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sanetemp: not found < 1345152193 262918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: O KAY < 1345152196 709983 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1345152202 665809 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp -310 < 1345152203 389326 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc: stack empty \ 154.4 < 1345152208 633386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1345152231 770300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink -310 F -> C < 1345152243 472670 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error < 1345152267 741294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloody frink and its weird way of doing temperature < 1345152276 962747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink -310 Fahrenheit -> Celsius < 1345152277 809040 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink -310 F*volt -> C < 1345152289 852610 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: undefined symbol "Fahrenheit". \ Warning: undefined symbol "Fahrenheit". \ Error < 1345152293 33795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats ion -----###
< 1345152304 351579 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-310 < 1345152316 690102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-310-32)*5/9 -- bah < 1345152318 656417 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : -190.0 < 1345152328 340884 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1345152331 269109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You work on clang, right? < 1345152342 149356 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ish < 1345152355 523597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 310~ < 1345152356 804559 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc: stack empty \ 154.4 < 1345152363 975972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: How's its C++11 support? < 1345152365 57543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't it either :( < 1345152368 420340 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: excellent < 1345152369 109913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, http://clang.llvm.org/cxx_status.html. < 1345152382 583258 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the attributes thing is a lie < 1345152384 196701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that does look pretty good. < 1345152389 675848 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is right < 1345152391 273634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sanetemp < 1345152391 729923 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" < 1345152398 87022 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :attributes are supported except for a few corner cases < 1345152408 350635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Patches are needed to make libstdc++-4.4 and libstdc++-4.7 work with Clang in C++11 mode." < 1345152413 445756 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sounds bad. Do I need to care about this? < 1345152416 277562 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll check what version I have. < 1345152426 236944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have v6, apparently! Good. < 1345152429 872629 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one give a negative number in dc anyway < 1345152435 783627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, that's the soname. < 1345152465 463884 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: _ < 1345152473 537163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp _310 < 1345152474 323671 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-190.0 < 1345152495 773001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! now i just have to actually remember that. < 1345152519 451009 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: get libc++ obv < 1345152532 175544 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: That's a little more work than I can be bothered with. < 1345152580 808624 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the net result is clang is the best compiler ;) < 1345152721 138816 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345153049 129784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: help. http://sprunge.us/OMAB < 1345153140 928622 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's libstdc++ 4.7 < 1345153155 220227 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :those errors aren't caused by that though < 1345153164 834051 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay that's actually 4.7.1; I don't know if they fixed the bug) < 1345153176 891402 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: link against libstdc++ < 1345153182 66487 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you use clang++ < 1345153185 392682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1345153189 10757 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was using clang rather than clang++ < 1345153190 53497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha woops < 1345153200 261555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i remembered is that clang was fancy and autodetected .cc file extensions < 1345153202 659570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you meant to use clang++ instead < 1345153232 793519 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang will autodetect into C++ mode, but won't add corresponding flags like -lstdc++ < 1345153239 583948 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang++ will < 1345153243 342765 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly this is a bug < 1345153294 520670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: consider it reported < 1345153295 994591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to you) < 1345153314 224555 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1345153324 225575 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you compiling to a .o file? < 1345153329 366079 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or directly to binary? < 1345153352 484609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang build/abl-show.o build/abyss.o build/acr.o build/beam.o build/chardump.o build/cloud.o build/command.o build/console.o build/debug.o build/delay.o build/decks.o build/describe.o build/direct.o build/dungeon.o build/effects.o build/fight.o build/files.o build/globals.o build/hiscores.o build/initfile.o build/insult.o build/invent.o build/it_use2.o build/it_use3.o build/item_use.o build/itemname.o build/itemprop.o build/items.o build/lev-pand < 1345153352 631093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :.o build/libutil.o build/macro.o build/maps.o build/menu.o build/message.o build/misc.o build/monplace.o build/mon-pick.o build/monstuff.o build/monspeak.o build/mon-util.o build/mstuff2.o build/mutation.o build/newgame.o build/ouch.o build/output.o build/overmap.o build/player.o build/randart.o build/religion.o build/skills2.o build/spells1.o build/spells2.o build/spells3.o build/spells4.o build/spl-book.o build/spl-cast.o build/spl-util.o build < 1345153353 441692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/stash.o build/stuff.o build/tags.o build/transfor.o build/travel.o build/view.o build/Kills.o build/mt19937ar.o -lncurses -o build/crawl-anc < 1345153356 870800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the exact command < 1345153360 548660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, linking a binary < 1345153368 265079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a bunch of C++ objects < 1345153369 717779 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't autodetect source language of object files < 1345153371 415903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1345153377 133572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed not, but you said it might be a bug < 1345153381 786027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I thought maybe there is some fanciness I was missing < 1345153387 788462 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well clang foo.cpp should probably work right imo < 1345153417 373070 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we make a card game based on chess boxing? < 1345153429 174576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you sure it can't detect whether an object file is C++? < 1345153430 422212 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: only you can < 1345153431 902107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1345153447 752984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think zzo38 is precisely the right person for that < 1345153448 285422 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not really. clang uses system ld iirc < 1345153455 606575 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1345153457 633473 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ld perhaps could be inspecting for definitions of mangled names < 1345153472 61387 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any such thing would be heuristic < 1345153520 293800 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone who knew how to play Xiangqi once told me that she tried to learn chess but couldn't because it was complicated. < 1345153534 126085 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just put something in the object file which says what the source language was < 1345153547 14354 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would not be hard in principle, but i don't know of any such thing < 1345153565 853759 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :object files already have all kinds of non-loadable informative sections < 1345153580 505106 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: but the clang driver would have to inspect it < 1345153585 153706 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang does not know how to read object files < 1345153601 654261 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with gcc the object files can actually contain intermediate representation code < 1345153610 284608 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for eventual link-time optimization and codegen < 1345153611 701308 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah < 1345153616 249504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think clang even supports most of GNU89 < 1345153626 457294 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it does < 1345153651 190904 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cambridge police: Man huffs screen cleaner, resists arrest" < 1345153692 388342 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so proud of my town < 1345153717 506813 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: which country? < 1345153727 235778 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cambridge massachussetts USA < 1345153757 69353 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know all the cambridges that matter < 1345153763 589856 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no more than one per country < 1345153845 152482 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "Woman arrested for flashing breasts at passersby" < 1345153848 796160 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just down the street < 1345153923 764001 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cambridge, Ontario has 126,000 people < 1345153947 892087 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is the home of a bunch of famous hockey players i've never heard of < 1345153988 417319 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a town of Cambridge *and* a village of Cambridge in New York State < 1345153991 880583 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they partially intersect < 1345154155 967943 :david_werecat!~david_wer@24-52-224-101.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1345154183 293505 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 3845 Cambridges in England < 1345154209 454591 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are all in the same place though < 1345154254 389781 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1345154282 808322 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1345154714 366808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: does nesting std::arrays do what i expect < 1345154720 32392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Cambridge police: Man huffs screen cleaner, resists arrest" <-- sheesh, the poor guy obviously was just trying to clean his nose! < 1345154738 883298 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: think so < 1345154750 768486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1345154767 936960 :sirdancealot7!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1345154939 847115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know anything about mingw < 1345154950 289256 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1345154951 4979 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1345155003 420569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it up-to-date enough gcc-wise for c++11? is, uh, whatever C++ runtime library it uses? (just Windows'? I forget how it works.) < 1345155080 536469 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't know that, let me test < 1345155119 331101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically I'm worried things like std::array and so on won't work < 1345155128 142871 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Windows < 1345155131 24809 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i486-mingw32-g++ (GCC) 4.7.0 < 1345155137 312256 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be up-to-date enough < 1345155142 884823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so the gcc is definitely up-to-date enough < 1345155158 963779 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :My gcc is 4.7.1 though < 1345155163 105272 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So mingw isn't the latest < 1345155164 362365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still uses Windows runtime libraries though, right? < 1345155169 683852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess with C++ it's weird because so much is defined in header files < 1345155169 959687 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :But almost the latest < 1345155414 634192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Perhaps the police should tell him if that is not a good way to clean his nose. < 1345155519 100560 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Windows headers only declare the Windows stuff, not the rest < 1345155571 492079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. But Windows still has a libc/libstdc++, doesn't it? < 1345155576 201457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe MinGW supplies that. Windows is confusing. :/ < 1345155835 41669 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god why am I looking at Smalltalk I hate single-dispatch < 1345155838 431981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well they don't have to be so impolite about it! < 1345155847 414590 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I also hate cultures of monkey-patching < 1345155849 425013 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes I agree < 1345155852 76906 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why am I looking at it < 1345155861 655435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They shouldn't have to be so impolite about it < 1345155901 570269 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Bradbury reportedly exhaled and then yelled, letting out “a thunderous laugh.” Officers identified themselves and told him he was under arrest, at which point, Bradbury reportedly said, “Ohh, shit,” and laughed again.' < 1345155938 228104 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he tried to punch the cops < 1345155945 123255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION beckons Sgeo with some multiparameter type classes
< 1345155970 529089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're functional _and_ dependable! < 1345156012 735996 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c.c < 1345156024 963363 :lexande!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: he was just looking for a free place to stay < 1345156029 883252 :lexande!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rent is too damn high, etc < 1345156040 288468 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1345156104 598840 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and the only language I know of with them is not generally considered a language with a dynamic environment and a nice debugger and IDE < 1345156141 986385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you want a dynamic environment but _not_ monkey-patching? how inconsistent! < 1345156186 677205 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Common Lisp not a good example? < 1345156189 397187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think common lisp has multiple dispatch + the rest though < 1345156202 434137 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dynamic, no monkey-patching that I know of < 1345156213 859687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you go right ahead < 1345156484 990643 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1345156489 982729 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember why I recently preferred Tcl to Lisp < 1345156525 532669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :an evil circle, surely < 1345156560 533149 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More importantly, I can read code written by others and understand what they meant relatively easily. " < 1345156578 431611 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? Seems like Lisp is a good language for deliberate obfuscation < 1345156590 290931 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... I would think so < 1345156636 778150 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one thing that scared me away was I wasn't sure how to do file stuff < 1345156683 179219 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp has a lot of ()s < 1345156695 381751 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp doesn't have coroutines. Tcl 8.6 will have coroutines. < 1345156708 648195 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer uncommon lisp < 1345156842 240670 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the parens is what's bothering me about Lisp, then that's sad, it shouldn't be < 1345156849 682287 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the whole emacs thing does bother me though < 1345156951 563619 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do prefer vim < 1345156961 259900 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wuwei.name/render-update-demo < 1345156969 993169 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The factorial thing is too much fun < 1345157109 387645 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factorial in Haskell: factorial 1 = 1; factorial n = n * factorial (n - 1) < 1345157144 665924 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think this would work < 1345157147 225479 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, not TCO < 1345157166 42752 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, breaks on factorial 0 < 1345157185 690029 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then add a case for factorial 0 at the beginning < 1345157351 678379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think also, I appreciate Tcl's "Look at the provided AST or whatever and manipulate stuff at runtime" vs CL's "Do it at macroexpansion time" < 1345157391 809584 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Tcl, there's a clear visual distinction between giving a command a variable's name and giving it some variable's value. < 1345157403 224363 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In CL, a macro can do whatever it pleases. < 1345157406 176320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl1(*)[1..] < 1345157408 205054 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,6,24,120,720,5040,40320,362880,3628800,39916800,479001600,6227020800,8... < 1345157417 14472 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1345157418 703320 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly, it means Tcl is less flexible. < 1345157425 991940 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm not sure if that's really that major a concern. < 1345157430 582260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but you can do that with cl functions tho < 1345157438 454325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if x 'y), define if appropriately < 1345157446 717430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem is scoping but I think you can manage that with a wrapper macro < 1345157461 66076 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : Lisp has a lot of ()s < 1345157462 108029 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1345157465 972493 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hadn't noticed < 1345157470 818688 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for pointing this out < 1345157476 982528 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but typically for metaprogramming stuff, people don't write functions, they write macros < 1345157960 241049 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1345158021 418279 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1345158069 281915 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...this page just called macros "less powerful" than something < 1345158097 48199 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have a tendency to define the word "power" in whatever way suits their agenda < 1345158118 544228 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.cs.wpi.edu/~jshutt/kernel.html < 1345158133 868894 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1345158141 42179 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not what i was expecting < 1345158148 564597 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, operatives are nicer than macros < 1345158168 281951 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know about "more powerful" exactly < 1345158183 345871 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use operatives to build everything else, in a way that doesn't work for macros < 1345158200 996926 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :read shutt's phd thesis or read my blog post here: http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.ie/2012/04/scheme-without-special-forms.html < 1345158214 489834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love kernel < 1345158217 221720 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for its symbol prefices < 1345158219 924470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't love those much < 1345158234 246549 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you know use blogspot.com or blogspot.whatevercountryyouhappentobein < 1345158240 637505 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it matters not a damn < 1345158244 76462 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah i know right < 1345158249 674918 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is main usually a function? < 1345158257 958422 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's a gcc warning < 1345158270 571454 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. But in Haskell main is usually not a function. < 1345158278 46095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: don't you know you only code in haskell < 1345158278 950218 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1345158285 308365 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :blogspot.ie is a very cool blogspot domain I think < 1345158287 805307 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: indeed < 1345158288 810584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many people even realise .ie exists < 1345158314 447487 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: so you can take it as a statement about how unusual haskell is < 1345158333 778266 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: but my blog is not about haskell, anyway. you'll find bits of code in lots of languages < 1345158341 526859 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one i just linked is scheme < 1345158394 855753 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is reading
< 1345158403 471831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it matters not a damn <-- I WANT CANONICAL URLS DAMMIT < 1345158446 751171 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've featured haskell, python, c, c++, scheme, bash, and Autoconf < 1345158473 681000 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as x86 assembly (possibly 16-, 32-, and 64-bit) < 1345158486 44493 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1345158544 334773 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannon nickel < 1345158554 542688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in haskell main isn't a function, python, scheme and bash don't _need_ main and i dunno about Autoconf :P < 1345158612 405186 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :const int main[] = { 14776, 3942977280, 247 }; < 1345158622 42915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I THINK THAT'S A _USUALLY NOT_, MATE < 1345158645 223732 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1345158649 458784 :lexande!arapp@minthe.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that is a bad idea right? < 1345158662 543330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexande: no it's the best idea < 1345158667 577462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally do it in all your prorgams forever < 1345158669 398678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programs < 1345158682 515839 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ass butts < 1345158700 23409 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? kmc < 1345158703 370719 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1345158725 331359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn kmc is nice but we don't get his occasional bouts of Tourette's. < 1345158729 160118 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1345158759 576517 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a bad entry < 1345158763 652079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should feel bad, oerjan :'( < 1345158776 223500 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is usually a pointer? < 1345158800 90846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess it's not fun making fun of people with tourette's < 1345158804 555304 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanted to say "that is usually a pointer" but that makes no sense < 1345158809 429543 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/kmc < 1345158813 323068 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1345158875 808967 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, i have the ability to make oerjan feel bad on demand < 1345158903 651038 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: only in C++ but not in visual basic or cobol < 1345158905 145964 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :herp derp < 1345158905 490728 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders similarities between operatives and Tcl commands
< 1345158924 805960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LEAVE http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10835 AS EVIDENCE, HOWEVER < 1345158978 707017 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads "Revised -1 Report on the Kernel Programming Language"
< 1345158994 928230 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :prevised < 1345159116 553585 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually have tourette's btw < 1345159122 345731 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I assume the $ prefix is a convention to distinguish operatives from applicatives? < 1345159124 21932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1345159128 526400 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what alternatives are there? < 1345159141 236404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need an alternative because applicatives are a subset of operatives < 1345159145 179502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I don't know why Kernel separates them at all < 1345159153 102047 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some obsessive-compulsive tendencies and some tourettes-like tendencies but i think neither is strong enough to be a diagnosable condition < 1345159162 818177 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so that you can write 'apply' more cleanly < 1345159173 651265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i find the low-level tangly definition more satisfying < 1345159176 56304 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i did it differently in my thing < 1345159176 202309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks purer < 1345159177 251987 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1345159184 434929 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purer because the interpreter has fewer cases < 1345159187 873835 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicatives may be a subset of operatives but mistaking an operative for an applicative could be bad < 1345159196 990226 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my interpreter has three cases: variable, operative, and anything else < 1345159211 684192 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else = evaluates to itself < 1345159217 537503 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, a non-applicative operative for an applicative < 1345159222 523960 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, that should be variable, application, and anything else < 1345159233 7057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : sweet, i have the ability to make oerjan feel bad on demand <-- everyone has that ability, elliott. what's unusual is getting me to _act_ on it. < 1345159234 321844 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :an operative itself evaluates to itself < 1345159243 324613 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a combination like (operative arg1 arg2...) does not < 1345159286 142905 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: anyway even if applicatives are operatives, you might still want that convention to distinguish that subset of operatives from the rest < 1345159296 560101 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an important subset because you can apply functional / equational reasoning to them < 1345159360 692526 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i decided it was ugly for my little thing < 1345159368 145409 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and plus i wanted the names to match scheme < 1345159384 214991 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else the magic trick doesn't work < 1345159399 123872 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but still, where did the lighter fluid come from?" < 1345159481 462729 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will re-read kmc's blog post more thoroughly after reading this pdf
< 1345159601 273911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well when I want equational reasoning I don't use a language like this < 1345159689 530604 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Kernel have continuations? And if so, delimited or undelimited? < 1345159721 461188 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: shutt writes about those on his blog: http://fexpr.blogspot.ie/ < 1345159737 280105 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this went way the hell over my head < 1345159789 119240 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in principle the idea of a language like kernel is that you can start with a very small core and build it up using libraries into something you'd actually want to use < 1345159789 642294 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can recite (well, paraphrase) Oleg's claims about delimited vs undelimited continuations but without comprehension < 1345159802 668047 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would presumably include equational reasoning < 1345159808 892117 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least of the weak sort < 1345159822 188243 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you want like (f 2) = (f (+ 1 1)) < 1345159840 327579 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(2) = f(1+1) for you LOLPARENTHESES people < 1345159852 565448 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, there's something to be said for building a community around X idea or not, which is distinct from whether a language supports X < 1345159862 405734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: in principle the idea of a language like kernel is that you can start with a very small core and build it up using libraries into something you'd actually want to use < 1345159867 141123 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Kernel this is not necessarily true, and it depends on the value bound to f at runtime < 1345159867 523859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really do equational reasoning in any lisp-like < 1345159874 899871 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't believe you < 1345159880 232237 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you don't use these languages at all < 1345159881 937258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the thing is that I don't really use Lisp-likes < 1345159885 228951 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not distinct, but... you can imagine a library for Lisp to do mostly immutable programming, but that doesn't mean there's a community of people using it < 1345159886 951551 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok then < 1345159887 714317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can't do equational reasoning with them :P < 1345159913 383788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes I think unrestricted macros are a bad idea in general < 1345159916 195722 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are cute, at least < 1345159920 394254 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they make a very small language < 1345159937 852313 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about macros or operatives? < 1345159949 443518 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably true for both, but you said "macros" and we were just talking about operatives < 1345159968 259658 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are kernel variables objects? < 1345159988 879990 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the variable itself? no < 1345160000 298801 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1345160001 854719 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like scheme, you have environments which map names to values < 1345160018 33792 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "variable" is just a single slot in this mapping < 1345160036 687372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And these maps are first-class, I guess? < 1345160052 160411 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember how it is in kernel < 1345160068 298403 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my language they are, because the interpreter exposes the fact that an environment is just a list of alists < 1345160084 52841 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right they need to be at least minimally first-class in kernel < 1345160117 165690 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because vau binds the dynamic environment to a name < 1345160133 534606 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This abstract behavior need not cause actual < 1345160133 707578 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementations to rapidly exhaust their storage space, because without violating < 1345160133 853703 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the required abstract behavior, they can reclaim the storage occupied by an object < 1345160133 853875 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they can prove that the object cannot possibly matter to any future computation." < 1345160143 271563 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the caller's environment is made into an implicit function parameter < 1345160147 108213 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that Tcl cannot do. < 1345160149 142270 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/function/operative/ < 1345160264 14823 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's impossible to implement Tcl with garbage collection? < 1345160307 21332 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to claim that a value will never be used again < 1345160317 489199 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think there is some internal garbage collection < 1345160355 843990 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really only a problem when a value represents some external resource < 1345160362 91076 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it impossible < 1345160378 894320 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, everything is a string. Easy to build a string at any point < 1345160397 680304 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you are confusing variables and values again < 1345160418 463214 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in most dynamic languages you can read or write a variable by its string name < 1345160419 984459 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's extra data associated with that string beyond what's in the string itself, having the string again won't help reconstruct whatever < 1345160430 414863 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if an object in memory no longer has any name whatsoever < 1345160432 746366 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is unreachable < 1345160435 631034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you design a computer hardware? < 1345160458 801448 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way OO systems in Tcl usually work is having the "object" be a string that refers to, say, a namespace < 1345160470 511500 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't prove that the string won't ever be reconstructed... < 1345160507 958034 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i said "object" above i was not trying to bring OO into it < 1345160525 665339 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just talking about an allocated thing < 1345160526 593365 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was trying to use an example of when it's an issue
< 1345160550 560107 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it sounds like that string is just the name of the namespace < 1345160555 362968 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so, the namespace is not dead < 1345160569 559594 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's referenced by some environment < 1345160579 195955 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds exactly like scheme or python or whatever other dynamic language you like < 1345160602 156972 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i write "foo.x = 3" in a Python program, i can later do getattr(foo, "x") < 1345160608 405380 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine < 1345160616 301953 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 3 doesn't get garbage collected because it's reachable from foo < 1345160672 507020 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: if foo is a global thing that you store all your data in tho < 1345160676 19012 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What programming language can be used to design the computer hardware by specifying the transistors? < 1345160677 463726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in if foo is everyObjectInTheSystemByName < 1345160682 812784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that means you can never GC any object < 1345160699 138665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(object as in member of everyObjectInTheSystemByName, not as in datum) < 1345160728 808557 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: SPICE < 1345160755 191564 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you cannot garbage collect things which have names < 1345160776 461369 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC is mainly interesting if you have mutation < 1345160776 822038 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, in Tcl, there's no way to have mutable data structures that don't have names < 1345160815 364667 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = f(x) < 1345160824 103678 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old value of x can be forgotton because it is no longer reachable < 1345160829 946970 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been overwritten with the new value of x < 1345160848 862273 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can have immutable data structures with no names) < 1345160853 522681 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPICE can try to emulate it but I mean to make it in a real computer hardware. < 1345160970 324370 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SPICE is for analog electronics anyways. < 1345160978 793000 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if you want a digital computer? < 1345161123 137958 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :digital electronics are really analog electronics < 1345161145 117960 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way you can have a precise physically based model of the gate delays in your computer < 1345161151 918376 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it will be completely impractical to simulate < 1345161167 709422 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you asked for specifying transistors, not gates or other abstract HDL elements < 1345161314 801225 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.004 uses an analog transistor simulator for early labs < 1345161318 37580 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a SPICE-like language < 1345161329 577626 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then in later labs you use the same language in a digital simulator < 1345161347 617923 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the primitives are things like "4-input NAND gate" or "2-way multiplexer" < 1345161382 582572 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still models gate delay, using specified output strength and input impedence for each gate < 1345161410 115780 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you try to change the logic around so your processor can support a higher clock speed in the simulator < 1345161435 899653 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like inserting buffers after gates which need to drive a lot of inputs < 1345161451 46496 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and switching to inverting gates (nand, nor) rather than and/or < 1345161456 446534 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because apparently those are faster in cmos < 1345161473 657826 :kmc!~keegan@c-76-119-235-30.hsd1.ma.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and changing the topology of the adder