00:04:51 -!- soundnfury has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:04:10 NAND flash chips are binned by cycles before failure 01:04:15 i wonder how they test that on a brand new chip 01:05:28 kmc: http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/ch/1986/ch861126.gif 01:05:42 :) 01:06:32 You haven't hated on XKCD in, like, ages, man. 01:09:58 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 01:13:44 none of the recent ones have been remarkably bad 01:13:53 they're just dumb in ways we have seen many times before 01:13:59 Ah. 01:14:06 It's not even interesting enough to mock now? 01:14:16 "the ultimate in mediocrity", reports area man 01:14:16 correct 01:14:24 plus i'm trying to be less negative, as a person 01:14:33 Oh. 01:14:35 i think my opinion of xkcd is well-known here by this point 01:14:44 there's no point repeating it, if i'm not adding new information 01:14:52 i have been enjoying what-if.xkcd.com though 01:15:22 What should I put in an RSS feed for someone's birthday? 01:15:25 ? 01:16:08 I guess I can put "Happy Birthday" in it. 01:16:26 "What are you still alive?" 01:16:36 you're... giving them an RSS feed? 01:16:49 very chic 01:16:53 I run a couple of RSS feeds that my father subscribes to. 01:17:08 Perhaps I'll put a birthday thing in one of them. 01:17:18 These are RSS feeds for web comics. 01:17:19 clever 01:17:27 Are you going to change your name to Fire Void? 01:18:01 this SSD has dropped in price 50% since February 01:18:51 How much does it cost now? 01:19:00 Maybe I should get an SSD. 01:19:13 Intel 520 240GB, $230 at Newegg 01:19:32 Maybe I should get a big external hard drive and do backups. 01:19:35 * SHACHAF has no backups. 01:19:36 by all reports, one of the best SSDs 01:19:39 yikes 01:19:45 maybe i should do off-site backups 01:19:55 I have $50 of Tarsnap credit. 01:20:34 I wrote a program to combine multiple .NSF into one .NSF file, although there are some restrictions, such as the input cannot use any expansion chips other than MMC5 and Namco 163, and the output will use the Famicom Disk System expansion in addition to the ones used on the input. 01:38:06 I want to invent backgammon card. 01:53:21 -!- Gregor has set topic: Official channel of PEZ | PEZ is the best candy. Why have you abandoned PEZ? | Do not fret, PEZ can forgive you. Give yourself freely to PEZ. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki. 01:54:31 i shall assume this was simple substitution applied to a text containing the phrase "Jesus is the best candy." 01:55:22 'fraid not ;) 01:55:26 I was just eating PEZ. 01:55:42 YOU ATE JESUS? YOU BASTARD! 01:55:58 oerjan: Doesn't everyone? 01:56:13 oh right, that communion thingy 01:56:19 never been do it 01:56:21 *to 01:56:56 In the new, hip Catholic church, they use Charleston Chews instead of crackers. 01:58:10 Don't you know that canon law forbids them to do that? (Well, they already violate canon law by not having a pipe organ, so...) 01:58:26 sounds good, although i shall assume it's sickly over-sweet per my american candy stereotypes 01:58:44 pipe organs are mandatory? 01:59:00 cannon law trumps canon law 01:59:03 Yes, although many churches do not have it anyways. 01:59:10 i'd have thought they were quite hard to get by around jesus' time 01:59:24 oerjan: It's nougat and chocolate. It's actually one of the least sweet American candies, I'd say. 01:59:33 Mass-produced, that is. 01:59:35 Yes that is true; but it is not Jesus' time today! 01:59:51 but but surely canon law is eternal! 02:00:05 Well, actually they do sometimes change it. 02:00:07 * oerjan is supposedly lutheran protestant, anyway 02:00:13 * Gregor points cannon. 02:00:21 oerjan: I think you mean, CANNON law is eternal. 02:00:23 * Gregor agrees with kmc. 02:01:00 kmc: Why aren't you in #cslounge-trains? 02:01:06 incidentally, {en:canon, en:cannon} = {no:cannon} 02:01:10 er 02:01:11 dammit 02:01:16 incidentally, {en:canon, en:cannon} = {no:kanon} 02:01:24 Hah 02:03:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_organ contains no mention of "canon" or "law" 02:04:06 is it common to demonstrate an esolang's Turing-completeness by writing a Turing machine? 02:04:33 Arc_Koen: Look at the wiki you can see which ways are more common. 02:04:44 * oerjan shall assume zzo38 belongs to The Holy Catholic Communion of Righteous Canadian Pipe-Organ Appliers 02:05:36 Arc_Koen: i have done it (e.g. some of the fragment proofs for Underload), but whether it's the simplest way depends a lot on the esolang 02:06:04 hmmm wait I was thinking "write a turing-machine that interprets the language" but that doesn't prove anything 02:06:26 basically you want to choose something that has already been proved TC, and which is easy to interpret in your language 02:06:34 yes 02:07:13 which can be turing machines, but other nice possibilities are lambda calculus, ski calculus, underload, bitwise cyclic tag... 02:07:14 so when I said "by writing a Turing machine" and you answered you had done it you meant you have written an interpreter for a turing machine in a esolang? 02:08:18 what i actually did was make a general procedure for translating a turing machine into an underload program containing only ~:()^ commands (iirc) 02:08:39 oh, also minsky machines, which i needed to get rid of the ~. 02:09:28 also I'm confused - I always thought that "being Turing-complete" was a formal way to describe what we'd thought of as "can do anything" but apparently you don't need input/output to be turing-complete, which is a bit weird since basically I am the kind of person who'd think that any programs that does not give a result is equivalent to the null program 02:09:47 for example for fueue underload was a very good fit, since it had very similar pieces even if they worked bizarrely differently 02:11:07 Arc_Koen: nope 02:11:22 Arc_Koen: Turing-completeness is usually defined by accept/reject 02:11:32 well, Turing machines are 02:11:33 Arc_Koen: we have this sort of "I/O-complete" or "brainfuck-complete" idea floating around in our community for when you want to consider I/O. 02:11:36 (a program that does not give output would be like a machine inside a black box - it may be working hard and compute a lot of stuff, but from the outside it's no more than a black box) 02:11:52 coppro: i _do_ like to allow more than single-bit output if possible :P 02:12:06 oerjan: but single bit is all that is strictly necessary from a computation perspective 02:12:55 the two are almost exactly equivalent 02:13:16 I think they are equivalent but I'm tired 02:13:22 I do agree, I prefer programs that can do I/O 02:14:06 Arc_Koen: well the thing is that you need some notion of inital setup, and final result; these include _both_ the program itself and ordinary i/o, but apply to many more general systems that don't have i/o. e.g. pure lambda calculus has only a concept of reduction to something like a normal or weakly normal result which is still a lambda expression 02:15:06 so the initial setup is the lambda expression you start with, encoding what you want to compute, and the result is the reduced (weakly or strongly) normal form 02:15:31 ok so you're considering the final state of the machine as the output? 02:15:37 yep 02:15:38 that works for me 02:16:10 for a turing machine that's the usual way, also including the final tape if you want more than accept/reject 02:19:18 i recall the Bitwise Cyclic Tag page suggests you want to include all the deleted bits as output 02:19:46 Arc_Koen: see the busy beaver function 02:20:03 Arc_Koen: oh also brainfuck is rather popular to interpret, for brainfuck derivatives that's often the simplest way of proving TC-ness 02:20:35 you can also write a thing that compiles brainfuck to your language 02:20:40 as long as you can prove the compiler always works 02:20:51 right, actually i meant compiling 02:21:34 Writing a compiler for a TC language *in* your language isn't sufficient, though. :-) 02:21:44 sure 02:21:46 indeed not. 02:21:52 * kmc writes a C to C compiler in 'cat' 02:22:21 and it's not necessarily for the compiler to be written in your language either 02:22:27 kmc: Oh? What's the text of your cat program? 02:22:29 only to have it as target 02:22:32 I can only ever manage to write quines. 02:22:36 :) 02:23:00 *necessary 02:23:09 Is Malbolge the best esolang? 02:23:22 well thank you guys that was certainly enlightening 02:23:22 well it's not TC... 02:23:35 good night 02:23:40 good night 02:23:43 oerjan: Well, neither is ISO C. 02:23:47 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Are you telling me you can build a time machine but you can't cook a cheese soufflé? You've got your priorities all wrong!). 02:24:11 SHACHAF: clearly Malbolge Unshackled is the best, then. 02:24:22 malbolge shrugged 02:27:20 * oerjan is saying this mainly in the hope of some day finding someone willing to try programming it 02:27:54 a TC proof would be nice too, i guess. 02:30:48 i guess it might help _slightly_ if i actually updated it to compile in ghc 02:37:41 !c printf("Today's strip is brought to you by the number %lX.\n", 184594917); 02:37:43 Today's strip is brought to you by the number B00B1E5. 02:37:48 ic. 02:50:30 -!- monqy has joined. 02:56:11 #define HV_LINUX_GUEST_ID_HI 0xB16B00B5 02:57:05 The hex constant chosen for HV_LINUX_GUEST_ID_HI was offensive, update to use 02:57:06 the decimal equivalent instead. 02:57:28 -!- kinoSi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:56 -!- kinoSi has joined. 02:59:09 > 0xB16B00B5 02:59:10 2976579765 03:21:52 HI ION 03:22:12 LIFT YOUR CASE 03:22:46 I DON’T HAVE A CAPS LOCK. :-( 03:23:26 FTL SEEMS LIKE A VERY NICE GAME. BUT NOW I’LL GET SOME SLEEP. 03:23:34 ion: /nick ION 03:23:41 IT’S NOT CAPS LOCK DAY YET. 03:27:43 192.168.1.NaN 03:28:01 Oh, floating point IPs! 03:28:02 That's perfect. 03:28:15 * SHACHAF wonders what the exponent would represent. 03:28:55 kmc: PHP? 03:29:38 beats me 03:29:46 got this on the admin interface of a wireless router 03:31:29 brb 03:31:33 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:35:05 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:38:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:46:29 Please help me with the RogueVM document 03:50:02 How easy would static analysis of 6502 machine codes in a .NSF file be? 03:50:19 That depends on what you want to analyze. 03:52:01 To figure out what RAM is used, to figure out bankswitching is used, and to decompile it and recompile it at a different address. 03:53:20 Some things are known not to be used. 03:56:23 Recompiling at a different address may not be needed if you can simply know which ROM/RAM is free, and what it uses to do bankswitching. 04:04:03 ion: splitlong just did it again! 04:08:37 -!- MoALTz has joined. 04:19:02 -!- kmc has joined. 04:21:36 -!- Nisstyre_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:22:51 -!- madbr has joined. 04:25:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:27:52 madbr: Are you someone making .NSF musics? (I fail to remember exactly) 04:28:12 "Distance / ACK Timing: Sets the approximate maximum distance in meters from which clients can connect. May be useful in preventing distant "cantenna leeches" from connecting." 04:28:43 kmc: That seems likely to break. 04:28:48 -!- asiekierka has joined. 04:28:58 kmc: O, that is what it does? Can they set the power for distance? 04:29:15 what do you mean? 04:29:29 I recall reading somewhere that they could not send an email message more than 500 miles away, due to speed of light and time limits set in the configuration. 04:29:35 zzo38: yeah I do songs for famicompos 04:29:45 using it to nsf converters 04:30:06 madbr: I have written a program to combine multiple .NSFs into one .NSF although there are some restrictions. 04:30:50 You can see my .NSFs at http://2a03.free.fr/?p=pub&dir=zzo38 04:31:02 -!- Nisstyre_ has joined. 04:31:20 Please tell me if you like any of these musics? 04:31:38 Have you made any .NSF with multiple tracks or only one track? 04:31:52 What expansion chips have you used? 04:32:01 Have you used multiple expansions at once sometimes? 04:32:14 gimme a sec, have to reinstall a nsf player winamp plugin :D 04:32:25 I've done vrc6 and vrc7 04:32:43 and "nsf with software mixer" :D 04:32:57 (I didn't do the software mixer, just the song) 04:33:05 I have once tried to write a software synthesis in a .NSF file but I could not get it to work. 04:33:32 But what I have written and got to work is a ZZT music player .NSF file. 04:36:45 I like wizardry.nsf 04:36:47 :3 04:36:57 might be better with drumsamples tho :D 04:38:30 Yes it might be; viewing 00README.txt it will tell you none of them use DPCM samples at all (yet); I may later make some including DPCM, or make new versions of existing ones too 04:38:37 oh another trick, when you play the same note on two channels it's best to very slightly detune them :D 04:38:57 All .mml files are public domain you are free to modify if you wish. 04:39:14 madbr: OK, I may do that. 04:39:56 layering is especially nice on the vrc7 04:40:18 What do you mean by layering? 04:40:20 you can get like 3 layers going with detuning and one being played slightly late 04:40:35 playing the same melody on multiple channels but with slight differences 04:40:45 like two different instruments 04:40:52 or detuned 04:40:54 OK, yes I can understand that. 04:41:00 or one with vibrato and one without vibrato 04:41:36 OK, yes, that too. 04:42:25 I have not done those but I have done some similar things; you can see the .mml files to see exactly what is done, if you want to. 04:44:56 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:46:18 Did you read the 00README.txt? 04:47:39 I think you should try famitracker 04:48:25 I don't use it but the other modshrine (virt, coda, chibitech, etc...) guys swear by it 04:48:27 I know Famitracker; my brother uses that. I happen to like PPMCK, and I have made a lot of improvements to PPMCK as well. 04:49:31 As far as I know, Famitracker can only use one expansion chip at once. 04:49:52 you music doesn't have enough vibratos and volume slides and note cuts and bends etc :D 04:50:37 you need a tool where doing these things is easy and you can hear what you're doing very fast so you can put effects all over the place 04:50:43 Yes it does not have a lot of those. But that is just because I did not put them in. 04:51:06 you need a tool where putting them in is easy 04:51:19 if your tool makes it hard you're never going to fill your song with them 04:52:04 If I am going to use them, I will add commands for those things more easily in PPMCK; although for now I can find entering the volume manually is easy enough. 04:53:47 If I need them I will add those features, of course. One feature I have added recently to PPMCK is the ability to enter DPCM samples inline (instead of loading from a file); I might use that. Features I have added a while ago include * and ? commands, and I now use those a lot. 04:58:07 Some people prefer MCK, some prefer Famitracker, and some other people like NerdTracker. 04:58:16 mainly nerds 04:58:27 I thought nerdtracker was really old 04:58:31 and kinda buggy 04:58:46 Yes it is really old. 04:58:53 I don't know much about it. 04:59:05 all I know is that when I tried it, it crashed :D 05:00:38 you also gotta learn how to alternate long and short notes 05:01:42 In some musics I am writing more recently (not posted yet) I do use some crescendo, trill, and so on. 05:01:55 nice 05:02:05 more percussion? 05:03:02 Trills can easily be written using the EN command. I am not very good at percussion, although I have tried a bit and "internationale.nsf" is using percussion although the original I took it from had none (I made up the percussion myself), but still only noise and not DPCM. 05:03:32 there's still lots of stuff that can be done to help noise :D 05:03:43 like have unequal volume on hihat lines 05:04:09 and have snares have a really short burst of low low frequency noise 05:04:25 then switch the normal med~hi frequency for the tail 05:04:39 maybe try to give it a nice volume envelope 05:05:09 I believe you; but like I said I am not very good at percussion. I understand chords and that stuff because I studied it, but not percussion. 05:06:46 it's true that it's harder to get info for percussion 05:07:15 I've analysed stuff like samba percussion and it's pretty complex :D 05:12:24 The music I have composed myself is "zzo38_1" and it has no percussion, but it does include chords and moment of silence, and a few other things. I wanted to include some minor chords too but I ended up including only major chords (although there is a V/V (applied dominant) chord in there). 05:12:50 oh :o 05:13:07 dunno I though it was major chords that were an aquired taste :D 05:13:23 in my music minor dominated for like years and is probably still most common 05:13:45 I have included the chord numbers in the file; mostly to help me to write it but also if people want to look 05:14:00 madbr: Did you write music in a minor key, or in a major key, though? 05:14:08 minor key 05:14:40 I guess it's harder to use minor chords in major than major chords in minor, true :D 05:15:09 Chords in minor keys is more complicated. 05:15:27 you think so? :D 05:15:37 bass is easier to write tho 05:16:46 And yes it probably is harder to use minor chords in major than major chords in minor. In major key, minor chords are II, III, and VI (I wanted to use VI). In minor key, you can use the natural, melodic, or harmonic (usually harmonic, so that the major dominant chord is used), so you have more chords although that also makes it more complicated. 05:17:23 gotta admit stuff like III isn't particularly useful 05:18:13 yeah I always though the natural vs melodic minor stuff was overanalyzed 05:18:36 you just pick the one that sounds the best for the particular thing you're writing on the spot 05:18:46 Yes that is one way to do it. 05:19:08 it's kinda like picking which flavor of candy you want to eat :D 05:22:05 The books I studied use lowercase for minor and diminished chords, although I don't use that because it is difficult when hand-written. Some people just always use the uppercase and don't indicate major/minor. I use the uppercase, but when it is important to indicate major/minor/diminished I will write that too: + for major, - for major, x for augmented, o for diminished. 05:22:30 I use "m" for minor 05:22:41 (In major keys it is rarely necessary to write that; but in minor keys it becomes more useful to write them) 05:22:47 like I IIm7 V7b9 05:23:06 essentially I use jazz chord notation together with roman numerals 05:23:09 madbr: When writing the letter name of the chord I will use m for minor, but when writing the number I will use - for minor. 05:23:42 -!- mig22 has joined. 05:23:45 (I normally use the roman numerals when I am writing music, though.) 05:23:46 yeah II-7 is also common in jazz notation 05:24:56 If the music is written in a major key I won't bother writing II-7 and will just write II7 since it is understood that it is minor. (If I do need to indicate it major, I can write II+ but often it will be V/V instead of II anyways.) 05:25:16 yeah I don't use V/V 05:25:25 because it's ambiguous with inversions 05:26:10 like I V/VII I7/bVII IV/VI IVm/bVI I/V V7b9 05:27:45 Can't you just write V6 and so on for first inversions? 05:29:47 but then it's confusing it with, well, V6 05:30:03 (G B D E for G6) 05:32:04 The way I use the notation I won't mean that; when I write V6 I mean the V chord in first inversion. I will write it something else if I mean what you are doing such as calling the E a non-chord tone or something like that. At least, this is the way I do it. You can do it your way if it works better for you. 05:33:31 I just take jazz notation and replace letters with roman numbers 05:33:40 IMHO the most consistent notation 05:34:06 Well OK. I am using the classical notation since that is what I have studied. 05:34:30 Of course jazz notation works too, and so does jazz ntoation with roman numbers. 05:35:17 I don't like how classical notation is inconsistent with sharps and flats 05:35:23 like how they depend on your key 05:35:29 (Although I do not think jazz notation with roman numbers is common; do you know if anyone other than you uses it?) 05:35:41 mark levine 05:35:46 jazz theory book 05:37:10 madbr: Yes I know. I generally don't find it necessary to write the sharps and flats in the chord notation, though. Things other than the chords themself can be written with non-chord tones, and may be circled for reminder (sometimes it is also written what kind of non-chord tone, such as in analysis; I don't find this necessary). 05:37:59 Ok how do you write Valt7 in classical notation 05:38:29 I don't know what that means; I don't know jazz notation very well. 05:38:30 In, say, Bb minor 05:38:44 alt7 is a 7th chord with a bunch of alterations 05:39:04 I think I found it on Wikipedia. Let me look what it means. 05:39:33 theoretically b9, #9, #11, #5 05:40:30 Irl it's usually played as 7#5#9 05:41:17 F♯ A♯ ∞ 05:41:31 So Falt7 is something like A, Db, Eb, Ab in the keyboardist's left hand while the bass plays F 05:41:56 OK. 05:43:17 kmc: lexande_ has all the train answers. 05:43:23 regarding? 05:43:56 Trains. 05:44:05 It seems that "altered chord" in jazz could mean more than one kind of chord, according to the Wikipedia article. 05:44:31 specifically? 05:45:08 zzo: irl the classification is something like 05:45:17 I have never thought of writing such altered chords, but if I do I would probably just indicate that it is being altered and write the alterations on the notes rather than the chord notations. 05:45:22 "does it have a #9?" 05:45:36 (ie a major third and minor third at the same time) 05:46:01 if yes -> does it have a normal 5th or a normal 6th? 05:46:15 if it does, then it's a 7#9 or a 7b9 05:46:33 if it has a #5 (aka b13 aka b6) then it's an alt7 05:47:53 OK. 05:50:00 in jazz chords are often classified by which scale you play over them... alt7 is played over the so called "super-locrian" scale (C Db Eb E F# Ab Bb) 05:51:13 OK. 05:58:02 so yeah that's the reason I like jazz notation... you can write classical chords in jazz notation easily, but not vice-versa 05:58:32 Well, OK; that is good for you then. 06:00:27 I have also invented cadence symbols (books I have seen just write out the words) (I have once suggested this to someone to forward my suggestion to the Royal Conservatory): P for perfect, P with a slash through it for imperfect, PL for plagal, D for deceptive. Circled for closed, a half-circle around for semi-closed, and no circle for open. (What I am calling "perfect" here is sometimes called an "authentic" cadence, but I learned "perfect") 06:01:58 I can't remember what semi-closed was 06:04:13 Semi-closed means one or both chords are not in the root position or the second chord does not have the tonic in the soprano. 06:05:06 I thought that was imperfect :o 06:06:06 That is also called imperfect; there are two different terminologies for cadences. 06:06:43 yeah 06:06:47 (I don't know why this is, but it is.) 06:08:11 I think I didn't use closed cadences at all when I was younger but now I do :D 06:10:30 I have written some music which I did not put into the computer because it is too short. 06:14:43 yeah that's why I use a tracker 06:14:51 so that I can write music on the computer :D 06:15:47 My music "zzo38_1" was written directly on the computer, though. I did not use paper for that one. 06:16:02 (That is why the chord symbols are included in the comments.) 06:17:44 I have also written some music in the QBASIC PLAY command, without using paper or anything else. This is not polyphonic, though. But I have done so both using the built-in PLAY command for standard music, and my own PlayBP subroutine for Bohlen-Pierce. 06:19:13 http://madbrain.devzero.co.uk/the_tomato_soup_case.mp3 <- this only has open cadences I think 06:19:25 zzo: ho god bohlen-pierce 06:19:59 you need to use tools with a faster feedback loop 06:20:43 irl keyboard, midi sequencer, tracker, anything 06:23:18 i have no clue when it comes to composing music 06:23:42 it's a learned skill :D 06:24:02 oh dear god no 06:24:04 I find it easier to just write out the music first and then make corrections later. I do have an electric piano but I don't usually use it to write music. My father *only* writes music by playing it on the piano. 06:24:56 zzo: what, you sing notes to yourself first until you have a melody that you like, then write it down? 06:24:59 Some composers were deaf and could still write music. 06:25:39 zzo: yeah the classic beethoven thing but those are special cases 06:25:50 madbr: Generally I just think about it rather than singing it out loud, but generally yes. Sometimes I will write the chords first though, and sometimes a combination of the melody and chords. 06:26:27 And then I will play it on the piano or computer, and if it is no good I will adjust it. 06:27:24 zzo38: do you know about koji kondo and nobuo uematsu? 06:27:41 I know some things about them. 06:27:45 yay! 06:28:17 dude do you know about mitsuda yasunori, the chrono trigger dude? :D 06:28:23 i don't. 06:28:37 I don't know. 06:28:56 i recently got chrono trigger for my hacked ds though 06:29:11 that will probably be a positive experience when i eventually 06:29:34 When adding the percussion to the Internationale, I just added it based on seeing (not hearing) the dissonance in the music and writing percussion based on that. I don't know if that is the correct way or whatever to do percussion, but it sounded OK to me and to my brother. 06:30:35 This is how I do music. I don't do it live like many people do; I prefer the old way. 06:30:58 old ways are probably the best 06:31:16 itidus21: Well, to me it is anyways; other people may prefer other ways. 06:31:28 `runc int main(void) { unsigned buf[12], i; for (i = 0; i < 3; i++) { asm("cpuid" : "=a"(buf[4*i]), "=b"(buf[4*i+1]), "=c"(buf[4*i+2]), "=d"(buf[4*i+3]) : "a"(0x80000002u+i)); } puts((char*)buf); } 06:31:33 AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 6128 06:31:40 i always like to be bitter and cynical about ways of game design (while indefinitly procrastinating doing it myself) 06:31:40 The truth is revealed! 06:31:47 (Maybe it wasn't such a secret.) 06:32:02 the usual way of composing for percussion is something like telling the drummer "I want a bossa beat" 06:32:04 the end 06:32:05 :D 06:32:40 zzo: it could have the kind of military marching snare beat thing 06:32:49 zzo38: i got a legitimate version of warioware diy. that has a feature to compose music. 06:33:00 but only a few seconds worth i think 06:33:41 madbr: Perhaps that is how they do it. But like I said I don't know much about percussion so I just did it by dissonance. (You can see and/or hear the percussion I have used if you want to.) 06:33:58 ..... 06:34:12 i knew when i was a child that nintendo was a seriously big deal 06:34:37 20 years later, nothing has changed 06:34:58 I don't even know very well whether a bossa beat or this beat or that beat is better. 06:35:15 (Well, it is not only by dissonance that I did it by; I did it by rhythm and dissonance.) 06:35:33 zzo: usually it works by style 06:35:39 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:35:55 swing jazz gets swing beat, bossa gets bossa beat 06:36:18 What gets the "fat beat" I've been hearing about? Fat musicians? 06:36:43 metal gets the drummer pounding the kick with his double pedal like it's a pinata :D 06:38:05 hmm 06:39:26 i think if i was living alone, i would use the freedom to build instruments out of odds and ends 06:39:57 -!- nooga has joined. 06:40:09 fusion jazz gets this complex break-beaty bossa-nova-ish swing-ish im-more-intelligent-than-you drumming :D 06:40:10 I suppose it is sort of like what I have done with rhythm, so it may be march or waltz time or whatever, although I have also done by dissonance. 06:40:10 but living with family, it becomes inappropriate to do such things 06:40:36 march time? 06:40:39 Probably you (and/or other people) can do percussion better than I do; I am not very good at percussion. 06:40:50 zzo38: every object can make music 06:41:04 itidus21: Yes and I have sometimes done so as well. 06:41:05 zzo: you need a tool where it's easy 06:41:22 like proper DPCM support or something :D 06:41:36 and a couple of nice kick and snare samples that hit hard :D 06:41:51 i suppose that when making instruments the goal is to provide a finite set of sounds the instrument can make, which can be composed together 06:41:52 I don't have DPCM samples so I used noise instead. 06:42:26 (Actually I do have the ZZT DPCM samples. But they may not be that good of quality compared with proper drums.) 06:42:41 itidus: every object can make music but not every object can play in equal temperament over 2 octaves with multiple different nuances :D 06:43:08 zzo: my favourite source is old MODs 06:43:32 sometimes they have killer bass and drum samples 06:43:37 madbr: my rants of always stating the obvious 06:43:39 madbr: Well I do have some of those, so I can look and convert to DPCM and see if it is good. 06:43:39 especially snares 06:44:09 the awesome ones that sounds like an explosion every 2 beats :D 06:44:16 so 06:44:33 But I don't know much about drums so I don't know what kind of drums to use, whether I had a drum kit or not. 06:44:40 kick 06:44:42 snare 06:44:45 hihat 06:44:48 that is the bass 06:45:04 hihat needs lots of high frequencies tho so it doesn't work well on DPCM 06:45:10 if you wanted to make an arcade game, is microswitches and joysticks good, or is it just traditional? 06:45:13 but it's easy to do with noise tho 06:45:32 OK, but I think I will go to bed now because it is late, but thanks for information. 06:45:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 06:45:45 iti: eh? 06:45:54 i suppose that its made for resilence 06:46:17 not my domain of competence :D 06:46:24 I'm a keyboard nut tbh 06:46:32 arcade machine peripherals designed to take heavy damage :D 06:46:41 designed for use by jocks 06:49:03 right 06:49:12 I have a TAC-2 in a box somewhere; it's a Totally Accurate Controller. (Sort of irrelevant, because it doesn't have microswitches; it has a ball.) 06:49:36 madbr: my train of thought was, what would PC be like in arcade? how would it differ from internet cafe? oh crap it won't differ from internet cafe 06:51:53 I think they have some specific industrial strength components 06:51:59 to deal with dust 06:52:02 and being always on 06:52:19 I think that's also why they used roms for the longest time rather than disks 06:54:43 Magnetic disks, especially floppies, were really quite fragile, yeah... 06:54:56 And ROMs still worrk. 06:55:07 Mask ROMs probably will for centuries. 07:11:04 but still i suspect theres room for innovation in arcade game interfaces 07:14:59 i can think of a few inventions which would be absurd. a digital billiard table, where the entire table is a graphical display and some kind of sensors detect what the queue is doing 07:16:03 such a system would have the advantage of allowing AI opponents 07:30:04 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:30:46 -!- atriq has joined. 07:32:40 I dunno 07:33:00 I like the tactile response of actually hitting real balls :D 07:34:06 indeed. 07:34:49