< 1347581272 278980 :Jafet1!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1347581627 155641 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b7be8.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347581690 340663 :augur_!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347582210 291093 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1347582250 846762 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://slbkbs.org/fluids.jpg < 1347582371 949872 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :water: used by nazis < 1347582381 667579 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also good filename < 1347582504 989035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watched Dr. Strangelove the other day.
< 1347582669 599409 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you can use intonation with Famicom audio? Make the highest note have period 90. < 1347582747 37562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually 180, because of a left shift; and because it adds two, the number you need to put into the register is actually 89.) < 1347582871 712316 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even that is not quite right; the actual period is 1440. < 1347583107 256640 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1347583232 213305 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1347583343 496064 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, see I was about to say something about almonds containing cyanide which was used in the gas chambers < 1347583379 222610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I realised that I don't actually know if they used cyanide, and I'm not googling "nazi death chamber gas" from this IP. < 1347583389 850097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1347583396 281443 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably on enough watchlists already. < 1347583423 790043 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, zyklon b is a preparation of hydrogen cyanide < 1347584921 951685 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1347585236 345259 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347585265 116102 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347586830 835613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making "Elemental Solitaire" game on Famicom. < 1347586892 765490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already got some of it working, including CHR ROM, PRG ROM, music, deck shuffling, title screen, sprites flashing. Now I will add some more, until it is completed. < 1347587591 173499 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have repeatedly called PubNub "PubSub" < 1347587591 723396 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1347587605 401024 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently not in here < 1347587611 799138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why stop when it is completed? < 1347587674 169468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make the program not too large to fit on NROM. < 1347587687 52004 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347587696 244312 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347587896 721907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1347588634 804024 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347588781 321990 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347588786 855321 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347588848 860531 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far it uses less than 2K for PRG ROM and CHR ROM together. When it is finished, it might be less than 4K. < 1347590813 98790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMBDA LAMBDA LAMBDA LAMBDA APPLY APPLY ONE MORE THAN ONE MORE THAN ONE MORE THAN ZERO < 1347590816 411586 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE MORE THAN ZERO APPLY APPLY ONE MORE THAN ONE MORE THAN ZERO ONE MORE THAN ZERO ZERO < 1347590846 817844 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER MUSHROOM MUSHROOM < 1347590879 414694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ \ \ \ ((3 1)((2 1) 0)) < 1347590936 927724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to decode Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download because Koen and I are confused about the intended application order < 1347592036 462732 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1347592444 375019 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1347593216 51522 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1347593376 229264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnwinnableByDesign The situation described under "Why Would You Even Do That?" is not good enough. There should be some objects which you need to vaporize with this button, as well as those which you need to keep. < 1347593721 33969 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347594904 610018 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347595195 444792 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack's not on that page :( < 1347595670 837581 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have an account, add it, if you think it belong, isn't it? < 1347596913 643030 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347596923 991263 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347596946 597331 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347598896 522013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4^4 < 1347598897 450217 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 256 < 1347599134 11166 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad that's settled < 1347599640 974144 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347599645 723231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr <$> [72, 101, 108, 108, 115, 44, 32, 119, 111, 114, 108, 100, 33, 10] < 1347599646 821127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Hells, world!\n" < 1347599659 383268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1347599668 904275 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347599674 631167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume i made a mistake < 1347599832 628354 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1347599902 779880 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr <$> [72, 101, 108, 108, 32, 109, 111, 44, 32, 119, 111, 114, 108, 100, 33, 10] < 1347599903 632176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Hell mo, world!\n" < 1347599908 293340 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh < 1347600137 86040 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr <$> $ ord <$> "Hello, world!\n" < 1347600137 976042 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : : parse error on input `$' < 1347600155 717265 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (chr <$>) $ ord <$> "Hello, world!\n" < 1347600156 632780 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Hello, world!\n" < 1347600160 824658 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1347600479 630337 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr <$> ['\0'..] < 1347600480 654820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1347600480 825352 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1347600492 920945 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, du < 1347600496 291439 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr <$> [0..] < 1347600497 223900 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\NUL\SOH\STX\ETX\EOT\ENQ\ACK\a\b\t\n\v\f\r\SO\SI\DLE\DC1\DC2\DC3\DC4\NAK\S... < 1347600615 562398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr.[0..]==['\0'..] < 1347600617 982634 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1347600624 366810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course. < 1347600639 424104 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take(length['\0'..]).chr.[0..]==['\0'..] < 1347600640 337314 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[a]' < 1347600640 545942 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type `GHC.Types... < 1347600659 829146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take(length['\0'..])(chr.[0..])==['\0'..] < 1347600662 196101 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1347600880 782588 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ['\0'..] < 1347600881 783306 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\NUL\SOH\STX\ETX\EOT\ENQ\ACK\a\b\t\n\v\f\r\SO\SI\DLE\DC1\DC2\DC3\DC4\NAK\S... < 1347600907 532176 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr [0..] == ['\0'..] < 1347600908 595994 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' < 1347600908 760546 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred type ... < 1347600932 293599 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map chr [0..] == ['\0'..] < 1347600933 391520 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1347600939 948093 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1347600956 557190 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> uncurry(==).zip(chr.[0..])['\0'..] < 1347600958 503163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True,True... < 1347600958 521588 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: [0..] is unbound, ['\0'..] is bound. :) < 1347600963 421543 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> and.uncurry(==).zip(chr.[0..])['\0'..] < 1347600964 486987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Bool.Bool]' < 1347600964 657178 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : against inferred typ... < 1347600968 212443 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> and$uncurry(==).zip(chr.[0..])['\0'..] < 1347600970 259605 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1347600971 108494 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GET THE IDEA < 1347601168 496432 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the . in place of <$>? < 1347601209 910671 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caleskell has (.) = (<$>) < 1347601384 813831 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length ['\0'] < 1347601385 866238 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1347601391 614883 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Derp < 1347601393 701668 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length ['\0'..] < 1347601394 673704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1114112 < 1347601409 478072 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's fast < 1347601409 646790 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 2^21-1 < 1347601421 36689 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^21-1 < 1347601422 63868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2097151 < 1347601426 953357 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess not. < 1347601440 287550 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^21 < 1347601441 140666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 17*2^16 < 1347601441 310642 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2097152 < 1347601442 501591 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1114112 < 1347601477 217037 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't there a bunch of code points that are invalid? < 1347601484 276075 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't tell me that Char includes those < 1347601490 983125 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh, it's not 2^21-1 characters in Unicode, it's 17 16-bit planes. < 1347601500 29501 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: They are *unassigned* code points. < 1347601505 998754 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unassigned != invalid. < 1347601520 231169 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, some are invalid. < 1347601524 779197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xD800, for instance. < 1347601525 463539 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr 0xDC80 < 1347601526 524381 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\56448' < 1347601533 736268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 (17*2^16) < 1347601534 834906 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20.087462841250343 < 1347601550 372049 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, duh, there's stuff like the surrogate pairs. < 1347601559 221080 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surrogate pairs are explicitly invalid. < 1347601691 378876 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Huh. In principle you could do *slightly better* than UTF-63 then. < 1347601713 349969 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With really stupidly complicated coding schemes. < 1347601728 62870 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's not. < 1347601745 497976 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> logBase 2 (3*17*2^16) < 1347601746 557860 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 21.672425341971497 < 1347601757 99947 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... I'm not sure what I was thinking there. < 1347601769 759847 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely not anything sane. < 1347601783 361207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can also do better because you can (a) use that extra bit, so exactly 21 bits per codepoint instead of 21+1/3, and (b) only to represent need slightly over 2^20 codepoints. < 1347601838 208838 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the multiple of lb(17*2^16) nearest a round number, I wonder... < 1347601860 575455 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are surrogate codepoints disallowed in all the planes or just the BMP? < 1347601867 37697 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (* (logBase 2 (3*17*2^16))) [2..] < 1347601868 59623 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [43.344850683942994,65.0172760259145,86.68970136788599,108.36212670985748,1... < 1347601995 97504 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, a little *over* 4096. < 1347602078 119392 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 0x1D800 a valid codepoint? < 1347602092 920626 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-1024 is the best encoding. < 1347602115 314725 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think it's valid but unassigned? < 1347602135 237595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was hoping to avoid thinking about how UTF-16 works. :-(
< 1347602138 618995 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such luck, eh? < 1347602144 691061 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. < 1347602197 218630 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so you get 10 bits per UTF-16 code unit. < 1347602228 768125 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it's valid. < 1347602282 734574 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, it comes out bigger than 20 bits either way. < 1347602318 313394 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-9000 < 1347602336 841088 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember if the Haskell spec says anything about Chars corresponding to invalid characters < 1347602341 984392 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but GHC does allow them, as demonstrated above < 1347602355 657441 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Text doesn't, though. < 1347602362 923611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it uses UTF-16.) < 1347602365 599111 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because it uses UTF-16 efb < 1347602367 1423 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-1024 gives you 47 codepoints in a mere 128 bytes. < 1347602384 861686 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shuold all use UTF-EBCDIC < 1347602385 405655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it does an extra pass when you encodeUTF8. < 1347602421 571287 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, my iconv doesn't know about utf-ebcdic < 1347602442 237845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> '\^X' < 1347602443 326139 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\CAN' < 1347602447 661783 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, dude < 1347602471 336843 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-64 gives you 47 codepoints in... 126 bytes? Dammit! < 1347602474 755645 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wasting more bits! < 1347602553 642515 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a kind of UTF-INTERCAL a while ago, which is based on EBCDIC but is not the same as UTF-EBCDIC. < 1347602567 603051 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-90008 works, though. < 1347602614 783352 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1347602866 1832 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-63? UTF-32 isn't sufficient? < 1347602881 76103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-63 is really UTF-21.333... < 1347602894 467914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or UCS-2.666... < 1347602895 955583 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1347602912 384016 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't entirely understand
< 1347602917 850023 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan on sleeping soon though < 1347602978 252545 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: UTF-64 packs 3 Unicode codepoints as 21 bits each, and wastes a bit. < 1347603091 636820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't waste much, fortunately! < 1347603125 695134 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1347603143 260725 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wastes a bit more than a bit, apparently, because a Unicode codepoint is *slightly more* than 20 bits, rather than 21 bits. < 1347603143 638250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a bit. < 1347603153 693462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1347603163 262927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why couldn't they arrange it to be exactly 20 bits? < 1347603169 199072 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But packing more efficiently is really nontrivial. < 1347603174 265182 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :17 planes? < 1347603178 495266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who comes up with that? < 1347603196 881100 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x10FFFF jerks < 1347603222 748155 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idongettit < 1347603234 674894 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x10FFFF looks familiar < 1347603240 962952 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Largest codepoint. < 1347603248 957324 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode is in 17 planes of 16 bits each. < 1347603259 356903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for the first one. < 1347603274 711308 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has some of its values scavenged for UTF-16 to work. < 1347603279 187927 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(jerks) < 1347603292 461368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2^16 - 2048 < 1347603293 401448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 63488 < 1347603303 244089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :JERKS < 1347603321 656888 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-16 is such a terrible encoding. < 1347603344 684617 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And honestly has little excuse for existing. < 1347603369 185285 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most things that adopted UCS-2 and later migrated to UTF-16 for legacy reasons came *after* UTF-8. < 1347603414 752403 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even those things that did UTF-16 before 1993 could've migrated to UTF-8 readily. < 1347603421 190966 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :With less pain, in fact. < 1347603455 459634 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's really offensive. It was released in '95. < 1347603490 677588 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many files are there for chess games with TeX? Do any of them include AI? < 1347603577 934468 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Windows could've switched easily... < 1347603598 470318 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCS-2 as some stupid cruft for compatibility with NT 3.1? < 1347603741 46374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some games involve chance, some games involve skill, some games involve hidden information. I like a game involving all three. < 1347603750 689482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes games with cards. < 1347603830 9380 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion about this? < 1347604448 923730 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: my brother accidently his headphones so he got new ones and gave me his old ones. the problem is the cable is broken. < 1347604501 867528 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main options are to do nothing, get someone to repair them, or repair them myself < 1347604652 914387 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix them by yourself if you know how. If you don't know how, learn how, unless you would rather get someone else to repair them. < 1347604717 487560 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble is not so much that i can't afford someone else, but my profit margin is probably quite slim.. < 1347604724 625738 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cable is scary complicated < 1347604797 85091 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one thing it appears all the wires merrily touch each other < 1347604883 857022 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i only like games whose names start with "mine" < 1347604921 469265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote zzo38: i only like games whose names start with "mine" < 1347604934 317664 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :860) zzo38: i only like games whose names start with "mine" < 1347604952 373608 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too far from the truth even, since i only play minesweeper and minecraft. < 1347604978 330881 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also minebombers is an awesome game < 1347605125 67177 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347605367 86997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what was it impomatic wondered about again < 1347605401 854205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* impomatic wonders if the topic is inspired by Philip K Dick? < 1347605418 218619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my part of it, anyway < 1347605452 156488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs PEZ < 1347605457 366673 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if the total recall remake is inspired by Philip K Dick?
< 1347605484 929171 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot recall much about total recall.
< 1347605485 610920 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkdir: cannot create directory `/hackenv': File exists \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16941 \ /hackenv/bin/paste: line 14: /hackenv/paste/paste.16941: No such file or directory < 1347605489 563397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1347605496 961628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs PEZ < 1347605508 663288 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.12806 < 1347605579 535510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs changed the topic < 1347605584 296695 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22269 < 1347605608 624449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought that would be too long :( < 1347605695 318244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: you'll have to ask Gregor < 1347605769 603174 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : why did PEZ become ESME? < 1347605779 67496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_that_ was me. < 1347605781 756303 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha < 1347605817 58745 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question itself is funny < 1347605874 625320 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs esme < 1347605884 333741 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26853 < 1347605947 872260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T GO THERE < 1347606154 736170 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It [doesn't] works by tapping out "ESME" into Morse code, then writing "Esme" in to the papers. < 1347606265 693750 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've been trying to figure out which book the topic reminded me of. Maybe Ubik or A Scanner Darkly? < 1347606306 79622 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1347606484 726489 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google abandoned fret forgive < 1347606486 471112 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23esoteric&net=freenode < 1347606486 640476 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: #esoteric freenode - Chat Room on IRC - Programming, Computers - irc.netsplit.de < 1347606548 398475 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, it works! < 1347606778 742921 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347607536 800981 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The `pastelogs will stop if there is too many lines how to make it skip up to a specified date to continue from there? < 1347607633 386690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's been implemented < 1347607645 993603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/pastelogs < 1347607650 992742 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ \ pasterandom() { \ if [ "$1" -gt 150 ]; then \ echo "No." \ exit \ fi \ for i in $(seq "$1"); do \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ done | paste \ } \ \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ pasterandom "$1" \ else \ lines=$(grep -P -i -- "$1" < 1347607828 713286 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347607867 794515 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have "[too many lines; stopping] < 1347607870 680073 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mörning < 1347607875 302572 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soup < 1347607883 299106 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make up command of specifying the first date? < 1347607911 828659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1347607924 602228 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well was fun talking to you guys i gotta go now though < 1347608564 824953 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1347608600 746067 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347608818 108265 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347609045 127647 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1347609045 465548 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1347609047 576029 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay < 1347609053 756682 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, don't you dare < 1347609083 539231 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: we had to fix up your hair salon a bit < 1347609108 523451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackage is down? :( < 1347609114 544140 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems so < 1347609206 773470 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I'm not the best at explaining things < 1347609238 781976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one use parsec with applicative notation... < 1347609270 854337 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Same as you would use others. Parsec work very well with applicatives < 1347609283 631575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i cannot find the bloody instance! < 1347609303 390926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i was trying to load hackage for < 1347609325 222413 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume it'd be connected to the Monad instance < 1347609330 965053 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1347609330 983433 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure = return, (<*>) = ap < 1347609334 339178 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. < 1347609343 251404 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, defined in terms of < 1347609349 169906 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i don't want to _write_ it. it should be there already. < 1347609361 305277 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is there already, isn't it? < 1347609366 372988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately when parsec was originally made, they made operators that clash with it < 1347609378 103205 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then hide those ones. < 1347609378 678623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not when i load Text.Parsec < 1347609393 371644 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What version do you have? < 1347609446 192138 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, you can use awk or sed to remove the file other than the first date wanted and the one after that one, and then xargs for grep on each one, and do the same as it already does. For example: BEGIN { x=0 } FirstDate==$0 { x=1 } x < 1347609448 567970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i don't know how to find out :( < 1347609503 626369 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think the command "cabal info" will tell you which versions are currently installed, but I don't know if it work when Hackage is down < 1347609511 186030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on the verge of closing vim and taking a break but i have a principle of not closing a file that doesn't compile < 1347609525 831429 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leave it open and wander off < 1347609527 64040 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1347609565 126135 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: um i have no intention of leaving the computer, which means it is impossible to avoid seeing it in the meny < 1347609568 533519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*u < 1347609572 184067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er taskbar < 1347609576 907888 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thingy < 1347609606 653172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the universe's way of punishing me for trying to have fun programming < 1347609616 379092 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you should have no less than 5 computers on your person at any one time like a sensible person < 1347609763 232769 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you add this AWK program to the pastelogs to make it works with specifying the start date for loading files? < 1347609779 785890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run run run ls < 1347609783 472617 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: run: command not found < 1347609803 58721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does the big comment around most of non-working program trick
< 1347609840 508992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyone can add programs to HackEgo < 1347609857 979804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you add a file on there? Is it possible to connect to codu.org directly on some port number to just send the data and then it make a file of it? < 1347609890 282743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1347609894 555296 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1347609899 406227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :use `fetch < 1347609951 812228 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that's how it works. Wouldn't it be better if they designed to work without URLs so that you do not have to send the file twice? < 1347610039 537513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you _can_ do it with shell commands, but that's not exactly easier < 1347610099 891612 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :one does not simply add a file on there < 1347610130 19556 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the filename be specified, or do you have to rename it afterward? < 1347610151 711602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it uses the filename at end of url < 1347610163 247930 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any idea how to add a new font to Android without rooting? I need a slashed zero! < 1347610170 743167 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 -One does not simply request mordor.html- < 1347610175 13864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all feature requests go to Gregor :) < 1347610176 950760 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what for directory name? What if the filename at end of URL is wrong can you use # and a filename? < 1347610212 704724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it goes into the current directory /hackenv/ < 1347610237 12413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um not sure if there's anything before in the path. < 1347610363 827870 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is not on now? < 1347610374 766142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1347611120 161664 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish to thank this channel < 1347611138 810827 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For helping me understand groups long before I really needed to < 1347611138 980091 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also being cool and stuff < 1347611146 752571 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But one thing < 1347611158 779490 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a group from mathematics the same thing as a monoid from Haskell? < 1347611178 628956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, monoids don't need inverses < 1347611213 383590 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, cool < 1347611246 84516 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1347611250 836023 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm really glad I asked that now < 1347611256 630681 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had totally missed inverses < 1347611305 266639 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347611310 263000 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347611610 198282 :nooga!~nooga@ip-46-250-173-30.ip.maverick.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1347612985 767393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347614321 243974 :Cryovat!~null@sky.prism.winterday.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347614531 834030 :Cryovat!~null@sky.prism.winterday.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347616077 333048 :ssue!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgbsixghxafxrqeh QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347617186 582917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1347617797 255674 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347617985 857349 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347618011 285300 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1347618054 179712 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of a kind of compression by a integer; when it is time to read more data you know what the range will be (not necessarily before that), and then you divmod by the range; the remainder is the data read and the quotient is the data to continue reading next time. I have implemented something using binary division. < 1347618252 746050 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically I used like this (r=remainder, b=bit array, x=range): For i=high bit to low bit of b: r=(r<<1)|b[i]; b[i]=r>=x; r%=x; Would this work OK? < 1347618421 503606 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347618463 792782 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: Remote host told you to closed the connection < 1347619188 961541 :ssue!u5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-unbwcdvgbnbuytur JOIN :#esoteric < 1347621703 271294 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like today's Lightning Made of Owls < 1347621726 420258 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confused about "today" due to a ten-hour timezone change. < 1347621743 81886 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most recent < 1347621771 244825 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mezzacotta.net/owls/ < 1347621776 798288 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name has also acquired some sort of a gnat. < 1347621782 844787 :fizzie`!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie NICK :fizzie < 1347621858 885079 :kinoSi0!~kinosi@p190156-ffoma1yoyogi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347621994 900758 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347623322 72191 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347623487 816925 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347623544 866858 :kinoSi0!~kinosi@p190156-ffoma1yoyogi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1347623668 68040 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347624227 823915 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1347626025 199406 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm I've been having the following thought < 1347626054 165940 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically for a program to be reversible, it must not allow information to be destroyed right? < 1347626075 844736 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's nothing wrong with information being created < 1347626083 377613 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now if we run that program backwards < 1347626104 264245 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you meet the creation of new information < 1347626115 988424 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reverse operation is very simple : destroy it < 1347626146 179039 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would mean the inverse of that reversible program is not reversible < 1347626233 233170 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347626383 177944 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a re-reversible program < 1347626388 709058 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't create information? < 1347626640 532275 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup that's what I think < 1347626679 233620 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for instance an instruction like "push a random number on stack" is possible on a reversible program, but not in a re-reversible program < 1347626681 814964 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1347626703 949520 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means we have to use the word "reversible" with caution < 1347626726 470163 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that just means that a program can be reversible without being deterministic < 1347626800 700452 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347626867 139394 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we may need to add a note about that on the wiki? < 1347626916 737522 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, Category:Reversible_computing seems to be missing from the Esolang:Categorization page < 1347627044 306235 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1347628279 38154 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Real_Fast_Nora%27s_Hair_Salon_3:_Shear_Disaster_Download < 1347628347 911478 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the strangest name for esolang I have ever seen < 1347628393 620099 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: I do fail to understand the pun! < 1347628433 687970 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: ? < 1347628442 315459 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the name < 1347628449 268998 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the origin of the name < 1347628472 799411 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still stange < 1347628540 373037 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mind sharing? :) < 1347628602 734418 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a spammer that created page http://esolangs.org/wiki/Real_Fast_Nora%27s_Hair_Salon_3:_Shear_Disaster (If I remember correctly) < 1347628613 775808 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is by the way real movie < 1347628613 809325 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1347628780 345433 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :&g #anime < 1347628780 619190 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1347628780 619362 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate typos < 1347629078 739664 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1347629078 739957 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1347629078 740036 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster < 1347629078 740229 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page the spammer created is the one that still exists < 1347629311 969248 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1347629311 969409 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347629311 969527 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so "real fast" applied to "download" < 1347629311 969633 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shoudl send a thanking mail to that spammer < 1347629311 969737 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1347629311 969860 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a video game, but I'm not sure < 1347629311 969964 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1347629311 970271 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes at least that would solve the plot problem < 1347629311 970375 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a film < 1347629311 970483 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :urrh < 1347629311 970588 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1347629311 970693 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to this text I've just recieved, I'm owed £3350 for the PPI I took out. < 1347629311 970797 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1347629311 970901 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1347629311 971030 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Payment Protection Insurance is the current gimmick UK scammers are using < 1347629341 887014 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something to do with mortgages, I think < 1347629394 797575 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/246646_526302850729844_328991127_n.jpg < 1347629424 665884 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already seen it, heh < 1347629424 826797 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1347629425 481425 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: you say real fast nora's hair salon 3 is turing-complete but there's nothing that looks like a proof < 1347629444 791394 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen, it essentially is Lambda Calculus < 1347629451 712341 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with no brackets < 1347629480 529929 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced with "It then takes the next complete expression and wraps it in a lambda." < 1347629491 118317 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The APPLY is a very long way around brackets < 1347629512 689302 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :APPLY x APPLY y z is x (y z), APPLY APPLY x y z is (x y) z < 1347629551 994140 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZERO is an expression < 1347629560 862687 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE MORE THAN x is an expression < 1347629565 391158 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :APPLY x y is an expression < 1347629569 474380 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMBDA x is an expression < 1347629582 258424 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1347629583 522735 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is APPLY basicaly ` of unlambda? < 1347629583 984218 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ok < 1347629592 199401 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, precisely < 1347629626 937213 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, and about input and output < 1347629638 242432 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is directly inspired by Lazy K < 1347629669 882858 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is equivalent to something like "output := APPLY input"? < 1347629682 514825 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1347629695 50680 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it do interactive I/O? < 1347629707 880993 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so a program must be a LAMBDA < 1347629708 237742 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, via laziness, about as much as Lazy K can < 1347629786 787930 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lazy_K#Input_and_output < 1347630240 378362 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1347630273 262792 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1347630489 445637 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347630583 842475 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347630688 11989 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-147-233.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347633157 779568 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: I'm not sure how there can be any "interactive IO". < 1347633181 107004 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laziness. The actual input can be delayed inevitably < 1347633255 113338 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but output cannot be anticipated < 1347633284 126152 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it can < 1347633322 322982 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse-laziness? < 1347633329 737823 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ish, yeah < 1347633344 86317 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be named Zealous K then < 1347633361 135414 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like forwards laziness at the other end < 1347633365 734983 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1347633379 655210 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to take that into account to write an interpreter? < 1347633390 159485 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1347633402 659079 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to take that into account to make an interpreter with interactive IO < 1347633546 343906 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the only thing I have to care about are: ::= LAMBDA ::= ZERO | ONE MORE THAN | APPLY | LAMBDA < 1347633588 487929 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then apply the program to input, and output the result < 1347633597 835732 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1347633604 783968 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMBDA ZERO should be a cat < 1347633607 11855 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that seems pretty straightforwart < 1347633642 995384 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yes < 1347633654 388945 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realizes how unfamiliar he is with lambda-calculus
< 1347633661 175613 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1347633673 681449 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be a good idea to familiarise yourself with lambda calculus first. < 1347633682 159541 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be ok < 1347633738 342065 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMBDA APPLY ZERO LAMBDA LAMBDA ZERO should be an "at", or a cat that ignores the first character < 1347633817 668465 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1347633838 631365 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong, of course < 1347633857 616393 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAMBDA LAMBDA ZERO is the constant function that yields identity < 1347633861 346716 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so, K) < 1347633887 106550 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, KI < 1347633893 321016 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1347633897 569624 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :K would be LAMBDA LAMBDA ONE MORE THAN ZERO < 1347633905 944044 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1347633958 97740 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, LAMBDA APPLY ZERO KI means to apply input to KI < 1347633974 7338 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1347633981 752969 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that a "at"? < 1347633995 525228 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1347634002 199825 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means apply KI to input < 1347634015 718787 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh right < 1347634044 497416 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so applied to the first char it gives the identity function < 1347634061 670787 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1347634076 162002 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum? < 1347634076 747583 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes the input (as a church list) < 1347634085 484682 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1347634104 689638 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, \f -> f 'c' (\f -> f 'a' (\f -> f 't' (\f -> ... < 1347634114 533519 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And applies KI to it < 1347634129 974491 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :KIab is Ib is b < 1347634141 726868 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1347634162 673445 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the \f -> ... thing means, though < 1347634197 730688 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell's notation for lambda calculus < 1347634237 79402 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhkay < 1347634246 801278 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :λf.f 'c' (λf . f 'a' (λf . f 't' (λf. ... < 1347634255 194265 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a more conventional notation < 1347634275 661770 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION carefully closes realfasthair.ml
< 1347636245 727834 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1347637980 381794 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1347638020 976063 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347638274 235313 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1347638293 107962 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we bother so much about languages being turing-complete or not < 1347638328 672 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the church turing thesis does not contain so much as a proof of the "being turing-complete means you can do everything with it" thing? < 1347638372 477785 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no because you would have to define what "everything" is < 1347638392 651647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :church turing thesis is not like a mathematical statement that can be proven or disproven < 1347638408 807999 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a definition < 1347638490 638771 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says that for mathematical purposes we take the fuzzy term "everything you can do" to mean "any function computable by a turing machine" < 1347638516 951501 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One can't proceed from the informal to the formal by formal means." < 1347638579 5940 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1347638587 529368 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm that sounds very disappointing < 1347638620 679644 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they had a formal definition for "everything" < 1347638667 770769 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "any function computable by a turing machine"... what if someone comes up with an example like the ackerman function, but even worse, that can't be computed by a turing machine? < 1347638691 88760 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what you just said sound like "Mr Turing knew he was very smart, so he asked everyone to take for granted that his model was ultimate." < 1347638732 913556 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's dr. turing to you, punk < 1347638738 237839 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1347638784 935938 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's more correct to say that the thesis could be disproven < 1347638800 842442 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone comes up with such a function, and then convinces the world that the function is "effectively calculable" < 1347638832 371564 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is not a mathematical disproof either < 1347638845 293973 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's quite easy to describe a function which is not computable < 1347638853 74098 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the busy beaver function < 1347638861 72317 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it grows faster than any computable function < 1347638872 878968 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about http://esolangs.org/wiki/CLooP#.23hyper.3B < 1347638881 349739 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's up to the philosophers to argue about whether that is "effectively calculable" < 1347638917 366921 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know there's this idea that if you drop a computer into a black hole, you can do an infinite amount of computation in a finite time < 1347638922 544433 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't get the result back out < 1347638927 555558 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I just lost faith in computer science < 1347638960 190225 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps in time you will reach a fuller understanding of the relationship between mathematics, philosophy, and empiricism < 1347638979 759240 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@host-224-60.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1347639110 747402 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1347639118 74043 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Arc_Koen an idiot now i haven't been watching < 1347639122 108064 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, plz enlighten < 1347639133 427151 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, he's like itidus21 but with computer science rather than philosophy < 1347639146 923215 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I feel insulted? < 1347639148 175724 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm he just looks a bit confused < 1347639156 966212 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought we had another anothertest on our hands < 1347639168 211923 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen, I'm joking < 1347639168 588546 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually pretty tricky to wrap your head around this stuff < 1347639174 160462 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen, no you're good for now < 1347639182 785479 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :) < 1347639198 259198 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it is very disappointing < 1347639210 906326 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean basically < 1347639211 965778 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : I thought they had a formal definition for "everything" < 1347639215 235540 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definition is turing machine < 1347639244 331503 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you like lambda calculus, they are equivalently powerful < 1347639248 694086 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically Turing came up with his Turing machine, Church with his lambda-calculus, they proved the two models were equivalent, and then what? < 1347639253 608323 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any of 1,000 other things < 1347639258 376573 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: and then computer science happened < 1347639274 552294 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen, no other way round < 1347639277 382069 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :church was first < 1347639293 344128 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :original gangsta < 1347639336 956793 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok; that's a pretty good start and all, but have every computer scientist just said "ok, let's take those models as the ultimate thing, and never question them"? < 1347639343 762289 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1347639352 132274 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an entire field of studying "what if" more powerful things existed < 1347639368 332817 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetical_hierarchy < 1347639386 708947 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly most people would call this maths and not CS < 1347639395 495289 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS is maths kmc < 1347639407 563904 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars < 1347639437 413595 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: even if CS is a subset of maths my statement makes sense < 1347639465 65107 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_machine < 1347639478 650429 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercomputer < 1347639514 482204 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup I gave the oracle machine a look when I ran into Category:Uncomputable on the wiki < 1347639534 727552 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1347639582 579785 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all that stuff sounds very interesting, thank you guys < 1347639653 407722 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still it does sound like "oh btw, did I mention the bridge you've been walking on for the last few years has never been tested? It could potentially collapse at any moment.") < 1347639810 533418 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1347639835 890466 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever you're doing anything formal, you have axioms < 1347639843 595600 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the axioms are not proven, by definition < 1347639855 836328 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can argue about whether the axioms match "the real world" but that is a philosophical argument and not a formal one < 1347640023 87582 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't prove that induction works either < 1347640027 474908 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should bother you a lot more < 1347640037 419884 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can though < 1347640042 87026 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof by induction < 1347640058 8540 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah induction always worked before, so it must work now < 1347640064 239904 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anti-induction never worked before, so it must work now < 1347640091 816141 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm well my answer to "why does induction work?" would be "it's logical" < 1347640137 14337 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant prove anti-induction! not even by induction! it must be false. < 1347640138 787239 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you're probably gonna tell me about the axiom of choice, but at some point I will lose interest because really, that does sound like philosophy < 1347640160 896462 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing machines never sounded like philosophy to me before, though < 1347640207 804301 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I really thought they had a formal definition of the intuitive "turing-complete means you can use it to compute anything" < 1347640233 185713 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had never really bothered to look for it before today, though < 1347640307 900472 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there were such a formal definition < 1347640308 522989 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the church-turing thesis is our religion and godel is our saint < 1347640323 537532 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would still be in a position to argue about whether that formal definition matches our intuitive idea of "everything you can do" < 1347640446 172089 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah but I wouldn't care about that much < 1347640453 832102 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the same thing < 1347640462 942615 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "everything you can do" is obviously a very unformal way to say things < 1347640497 317746 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_method < 1347640501 681939 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not expect my brainfuck program to build a time-traveling machine, or to produce coffee < 1347640506 116612 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an attempt at like a semi-formal definition of what we're talking about < 1347640536 900891 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine that you try to formalize the ideas of "series of rote steps" and "completed in a finite number of steps" and such < 1347640638 205080 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : In simple terms, the Church–Turing thesis states that a function is effectively calculable if and only if it is computable by a Turing machine. < 1347640644 527686 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then "it cannot be proven" < 1347640656 285728 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm skeptic. do they have a proof that it cannot be proven? < 1347640701 396836 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Riemann hypothesis, for instance, has not been proven yet, but nobody said it couldn't < 1347640714 860981 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and of course it may be wrong but that's not proven either) < 1347640726 925704 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm ok with that < 1347640728 390053 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't formally prove something which is not stated in formal terms < 1347640743 753143 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One can't proceed from the informal to the formal by formal means." < 1347640751 550496 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they mean by "cannot be proven" < 1347640767 954947 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you sit down to formalize the idea of "effectively calculable" < 1347640771 905329 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you invent something like a turing machine < 1347640774 966333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're back where we are now < 1347640787 768533 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1347640790 227128 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the church-turing thesis is not the same kind of thing as the riemann hypothesis < 1347641287 671062 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : turing machines never sounded like philosophy to me before, though < 1347641293 359176 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing machines are not philosophy < 1347641304 408678 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what I meant < 1347641305 973777 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are a mathematical object, like sets or the natural numbers etc < 1347641317 85129 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can prove things about them with whatever degree of rigor you like < 1347641332 771604 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (also like sets and the natural numbers) you can have philosophical arguments about to what degree these things model "the real world" < 1347641389 308994 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but like, /obviously/ there's a Platonic turing machine in the perfect realm of the forms, dude < 1347641427 333888 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bonghit noises* < 1347641458 184516 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is < 1347641466 280773 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the Platonic turing machine feel love? < 1347641470 554486 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, not /all/ neoplatonist thinkers in the Western Renaissance developed their philosophy under the influence of drugs. < 1347641476 118517 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so that's not actually true... < 1347641478 427424 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just descartes ;) < 1347641494 734723 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, descartes... and the flax fire < 1347641497 973967 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we discussing the matrix of solidity < 1347641518 16969 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :five tons of flax < 1347641519 211636 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1347641534 300793 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ITYM five tons of VAX < 1347641542 921960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eight megs and constantly swapping < 1347641549 165454 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1347641553 172155 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually munches all computer storage? < 1347641556 482069 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132D0A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347641563 190584 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've spent too long on Tumblr < 1347641565 574723 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This feels normal < 1347641567 837163 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :great OS, shame about the text editor < 1347641631 975311 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on one of the many painful lectures on the church turing thesis i've endured there was some discussion about why "whether the real numbers are what geometry actually talks about" is never questioned while the church turing thesis keeps being debated < 1347641662 283299 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason was stated to be the obvious one: the first attempt at a formal definition was wrong. < 1347641690 320475 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wanted to mention this because i thought it was a nice observation. kinda obvious i guess. < 1347641705 322112 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the first attempt? primitive recursion? < 1347641708 932319 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1347641715 793647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't there some wrong attempts at real numbers too? < 1347641728 843050 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also plenty of wrong attempts at set theory < 1347641728 869783 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i just started wondering about aht < 1347641729 862261 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1347641741 648968 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people do keep arguing about set theory but they get weird looks from most other mathematicians < 1347641744 882061 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well set theory also kind of keeps getting questioned by silly people :P < 1347641761 491576 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i guess silly people also question the reals... but usually for other reasons < 1347641772 980538 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, true < 1347641782 213652 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION questions the reals
< 1347641800 964805 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, one real contains an infinite amount of information < 1347641803 46275 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just fucked up < 1347641819 262059 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost all real numbers can never be defined, used, or thought about it any way < 1347641829 806105 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must have a typo there because you just claimed that a _single number_ is somehow... infinite < 1347641835 453570 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's insane < 1347641836 512501 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1347641846 683849 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean they can't seriously think that???? < 1347641848 897850 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that the number has infinite magnitude, but that it contains an infinite amount of information < 1347641858 361435 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even insaner! < 1347641864 52715 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write out the decimal expansion < 1347641871 339930 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a real number can have an infinitely long, non-repeating decimal expansion < 1347641874 305468 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact almost all of them do < 1347641876 13275 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean come one where do you put it unless the magnitude??? < 1347641885 180096 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait are we still doing a bit < 1347641898 406631 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the tortoise < 1347641898 633210 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they're blatantly non-computable, so they must go in magic places. < 1347641925 153952 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't know, I think the only reason we have real numbers is because rationals didn't include the diagonal of a square, and transcendental numbers didn't include Pi, e or other random constants < 1347641956 177265 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computables are so much better. < 1347641957 368581 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1347641981 786744 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, without sqrt(2) and Pi, who would have ever complained about rational numbers? and we currently don't have *needs* for something more than reals, but what-if? < 1347641982 758675 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your definition of transcendental number? < 1347641990 95066 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum < 1347641995 464983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 2 sqrt < 1347641996 658542 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: We can't even use the reals. < 1347642003 496651 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because usually it's the complement of algebraic numbers < 1347642007 736867 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant non-transcendentals < 1347642010 643597 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: There exist reals which require a halting oracle to compute. < 1347642010 984644 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it in fact does contain pi < 1347642011 493643 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1347642025 825525 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait, what? < 1347642054 668819 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is in fact strictly *necessary* for there to be reals which cannot be computed. < 1347642055 10931 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaitin's_constant < 1347642060 776674 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact almost all reals cannot be computed < 1347642071 173 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are countably many turing machines and uncountably many reals < 1347642097 28069 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. Wrong cardinality. < 1347642101 727388 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each of those reals contains an infinite amount of (Kolmogorov) information < 1347642107 765868 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well that doesn't bother me < 1347642111 916818 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SHOULD! < 1347642119 526280 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :real numbers is a word masturbation < 1347642122 276171 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are educated stupid < 1347642146 166818 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've personally never tried to compute the digits of Pi, yet I've been "using" that number for a very long time < 1347642154 421584 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What bothers me is when people refer to the floats as "real numbers". < 1347642168 520391 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"god is real, unless declared integer" < 1347642180 780917 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are floats that aren't in the set of reals, and vice versa. < 1347642191 789630 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://what-if.xkcd.com/11/ Why does Munroe's equation imply there are 16 hours in a day? < 1347642195 367432 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, to store data on computer one needs to "approximate" continuous as discrete < 1347642205 344945 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: NAN is not a real, but it is a float. < 1347642224 451269 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not a number, i am a free variable! < 1347642228 272161 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has libraries for exact real numbers < 1347642253 789511 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, it does occur to me that not all real numbers can be represented, even with such a library < 1347642265 947855 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: By necessity. < 1347642275 106448 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just "not all" but "almost none" < 1347642277 759425 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: The computable numbers are countable. < 1347642278 945888 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set of measure zero < 1347642282 390140 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I know < 1347642296 100163 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Ok, I get that you prefer computable numbers to reals, but come on, analytic completeness is handy < 1347642301 318766 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the real problem isn't that float has a few special values, that's just computer blah blah. the real big difference is that the floats aren't even a decent subset of the rationals < 1347642308 196318 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: it's hard to keep your mouth open and pointed at the sky while asleep, so he only counts waking hours < 1347642313 751228 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: yeah, well, i'm a computerologist and not a mathematician < 1347642317 189637 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't exactly put calculus on a sound footing in the computables < 1347642321 596761 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that so? < 1347642323 805909 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard that you can < 1347642325 674176 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did not try < 1347642330 187069 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can take limits of computable numbers < 1347642336 594972 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of computable sequences of computable numbers < 1347642347 204874 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but said limits are not guaranteed to exist < 1347642356 17370 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have a wacko definition of computability < 1347642357 523663 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, it's also hard to live for 300 years. < 1347642366 228477 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: isn't there some kind of computable analytic completeness for the computable reals which works just as well in computable analysis? < 1347642372 314456 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says something like a limit of a computable sequence of computables is computable... < 1347642375 659875 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...where did I get the number 300 from? It's 195 < 1347642379 281497 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which i know 0 about but i've heard the term a lot) < 1347642392 678084 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, that causes more problems than it solves < 1347642431 181002 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a number of properties the floats straight-up don't have. < 1347642431 522898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why shouldn't a limit of a computable sequence of computables be computable? < 1347642441 65726 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: like reflexivity of equality? ;P < 1347642446 79681 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == x does not hold. a+b == b+a does not hold. And so on. < 1347642447 986691 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes. < 1347642479 844551 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm not 100% sure, but all my mathmo's reflexes are screaming "this is not well-founded" < 1347642490 124288 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/founded/formed/ < 1347642516 671621 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the nth digit of the limit, you step through the sequence until the (known, computable) convergence bound is close enough, and then you get the right digit of that number < 1347642541 100959 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, for one thing, recursing this is going to give us some kind of ordinal induction shit < 1347642593 919641 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1347642606 700633 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you elaborate < 1347642640 112352 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not convinced that the computables are going to be a recursive set and that worries me < 1347642676 22755 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even recursively enumerable for that matter < 1347642699 272914 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that's true < 1347642701 566179 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: because once you've got new computables from limits, you can then make sequences with those < 1347642726 615573 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do this lots of times, possibly big-fat-ordinal-ly many times < 1347642733 411466 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see how that'd be a problem if they were some new kind of computable < 1347642744 935062 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or possibly not, it depends on your defn of computable number) < 1347642745 104299 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury: A set is computable iff it is recursive. < 1347642746 637588 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1347642765 12655 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured we defined convergence so that you have actual closure under limits < 1347642796 864724 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah but I'm not convinced the set of computable numbers (where limits are included in the defn thereof) is a computable set < 1347642840 390857 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347642881 945398 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the definition of a recursive set is for subsets of the naturals, not subsets of the reals, so we have a problem there < 1347642892 321353 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set of computable functions is trivially computable. The set of computable numbers is defined by the subset of the set of computable functions that results in numbers. Thus, the set of computable numbers is a computable set. < 1347642945 119577 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the point is that trying to stick analytic structure on the computable numbers (or any countable subset of the reals, in fact) gives me the screaming blue willies < 1347643006 533594 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to compute the computable functions: map ASCII strings to naturals. For each natural, test if it parses in $language. This is an inefficient, but functioning, generator of computable functions.) < 1347643044 501673 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that only demonstrates that they are recursively enumerable, i think < 1347643060 328292 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I think we need to identify reals with functions < 1347643070 799543 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the computable numbers are a subset of the reals, not a subset of the naturals < 1347643087 128817 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1347643089 281654 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and R is basically 2^N, right? < 1347643103 697251 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. < 1347643104 824721 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah. < 1347643137 396401 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :soundnfury, the computable reals biject with the naturals. < 1347643144 56093 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telling if a given number is computable might be... Nasty. < 1347643163 986571 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, what form does the turing machine get that number in < 1347643187 918662 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait soundnfury would know that < 1347643192 551019 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you people talking about no < 1347643193 570336 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1347643194 629329 :subleq!~gavin@208.186.116.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347643197 188284 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :telling if a given number is computable sounds like blah blah blah rice's theorem < 1347643201 853559 :subleq!~gavin@208.186.116.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1347643209 743032 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sure, they're countable. But viewing them as a kind of natural number doesn't give you analytic structure < 1347643212 460462 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yeah. < 1347643276 708032 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think "is the set of computable numbers computable" is not a well posed question < 1347643279 89202 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay, the set of computable numbers might only be recursively enumerable? < 1347643287 340439 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because how do you feed a possibly not-computable number into your turing machine to ask if it's computable? < 1347643308 943346 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes. < 1347643313 601201 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like asking if the set of computable languages is computable < 1347643377 689947 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'course, the set of reals is clearly not computable. :) < 1347643437 778346 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have some oracle that has a real number x, and you're allowed to ask it questions about x (where I haven't defined what 'questions' are but I probably should), < 1347643446 488764 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't generally determine whether x is computable < 1347643467 630093 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347643468 145086 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you, however, guarantee that if it is you'll eventually determine that? < 1347643470 129173 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mr Oracle, is x computable?" < 1347643481 772370 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: yeah, not that < 1347643484 149076 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347643844 836283 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1347644155 706919 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you compute x, a great empire will fall!" < 1347644236 211151 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a93.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347644381 668113 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but in any case i do agree with soundnfury, it doesn't sound like you'd get an equally nice theory. < 1347644468 497826 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I have been agreed with on #esoteric < 1347644487 564434 :soundnfury!~edward@static-87-243-208-102.adsl.hotchilli.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... who are you and what have you done with the real #esoteric? < 1347644504 542697 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-156-141.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347644662 561511 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-147-233.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1347644669 966818 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1347644812 633062 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347644971 907627 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347644976 47831 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-138-11.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347644995 35855 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-8-156-141.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347645057 153599 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347645098 469380 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm wondering about the same thing since i seem to recall we haven't agreed on much sofar :D < 1347645305 26627 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-2-138-11.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347645334 826519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey soundnfury what do you think of germaine greer < 1347646177 497331 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1347646356 621669 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347646388 406964 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347646460 786023 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone knows a good way to convert a .spc tracker file to any sort of wave format < 1347646471 21264 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPC is an SNES tracker file btw < 1347646479 928398 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is my phone doesn't play those < 1347646481 459990 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a SNES emulator? < 1347646490 887379 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"convert" is probably not the right verb < 1347646493 786004 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe mpt supports that? < 1347646505 724750 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is mpt? < 1347646510 859428 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :"play and record" would be closer < 1347646514 722143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, I think the audio chip is a separate program in SNES, so you only need to emulate that chip and not the entire SNES) < 1347646518 304743 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure whatever the terminology < 1347646520 873274 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a tracker/player < 1347646528 833569 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want a wav file so I can put it on my phone :P < 1347646539 813133 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1347646541 341121 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of using the wav file, compress it somehow first < 1347646546 516656 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or get a snes emulator for your phone < 1347646562 290828 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first: duh, but wav is easy to compress from < 1347646564 490796 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.purezc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3612 < 1347646567 988535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do SPC files include a length? Do they contain a program, like NSF and so on do? < 1347646571 133351 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for the second, I like the stock media player < 1347646580 412658 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to play the game on the phone either < 1347646594 699148 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, they are a memory dump of the sound chipset memory iirc < 1347646610 313978 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do seem to be able to include infinite loops, so I need to restrict that somehow < 1347646620 531696 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, thanks < 1347646711 464346 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, well that doesn't seem to end up with a wave file, but rather an .it file < 1347646730 859779 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you open the .it in mpt and output it to a wave < 1347646757 379501 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(after editing it to make sure it only includes the parts you want) < 1347646770 611013 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1347646784 423401 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there is a simpler way to do this? < 1347646793 610750 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they just play in vlc < 1347646797 430306 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and display a length there < 1347646797 824231 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347646799 187717 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1347646802 291424 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :play it in vlc < 1347646816 339109 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :record it from your sound card with your favorite recording program < 1347646825 613890 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah could work < 1347647032 245968 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, why is it that many modern onboard sound solutions lack a virtual input for the sound output < 1347647034 660786 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1347647043 29117 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :my SB Live has it of course < 1347647049 700893 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldnt know. i've never had that problem < 1347647117 231967 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey there is vlc for android < 1347647122 971628 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it can play these files too < 1347647144 147581 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly it is still in beta and last I tried it, it was very buggy < 1347647443 606631 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1347648009 332886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be missing something that makes "play in VLC, record what's being played" a reasonable thing to do, as opposed to just telling VLC to write the audio to file instead of/in addition to playing it. < 1347648129 713130 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh you can do that? < 1347648131 285446 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1347648148 265596 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how? < 1347648178 957884 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has that whole stream/save GUI dialog; and the command line that I forget how to use. < 1347648183 276676 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1347648204 181311 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how would converting it work if the tracker file has an infinite loop in it? < 1347648258 966110 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do the "also play locally", you can press stop when you've had enough, I'd think. < 1347648265 537444 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1347648278 901737 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://wiki.videolan.org/Extract_audio if you want the command line magic. < 1347648299 76323 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could add a bit of fade at the end after or something < 1347648313 898310 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the music consists of intro followed by infinite loop < 1347648571 485411 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also vlc on phone doesn't do tracker files it seems < 1347648573 456286 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad < 1347648738 685622 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i pretty much don't understand how RFNHS3:SDD works. this description is terrible. < 1347649378 369107 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347649530 705517 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-114.elisa.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347650068 750349 :jiella!~jiella@cs27103076.pp.htv.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347651031 766577 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone remind me that extrapolation is a very bad thing? < 1347651067 951986 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1347651080 284294 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when do you want that remainder to strike you? < 1347651092 481662 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Round about now would be nice < 1347651144 138468 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ask lambda bot to remind you of that < 1347651156 707460 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1347651159 492878 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell atriq EXTRAPOLATION. IS. VERY. BAD. < 1347651160 189058 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347651175 168433 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1347651188 446495 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about context? < 1347651201 120589 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases I'm pretty sure extrapolations can be good < 1347651208 583279 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347651218 191942 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to predict how long Act 6 Intermission 3 of Homestuck is going to be. < 1347651218 710091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1347651222 485957 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1347651222 656166 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen said 1m 3s ago: EXTRAPOLATION. IS. VERY. BAD. < 1347651230 689394 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Arc_Koen Thank you. < 1347651231 29923 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347651243 717596 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I make it 204 < 1347651261 573730 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying very hard right now not to type "@tell atriq you're welcom" < 1347651262 454704 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1347651270 626566 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1347651271 211159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq said 40s ago: Thank you. < 1347651290 697493 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell atriq You're welcome! < 1347651291 270319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347651291 986226 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... < 1347651294 759679 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, I'm weak < 1347651298 414047 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1347651298 582256 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any new messages. < 1347651299 945036 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@clear-messages < 1347651300 59163 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messages cleared. < 1347651302 871022 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND I AM STRONG < 1347651310 184324 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND RUDE. < 1347651338 697623 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know of that command < 1347651363 990282 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1347651842 758786 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learn something every day < 1347651842 930572 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1347651849 766306 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1347651849 784863 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen said 8m 37s ago: You're welcome! < 1347651855 652031 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAH < 1347651858 962257 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAH < 1347651860 661730 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH < 1347651866 229539 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@nixon Help! < 1347651866 398439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't try to take on a new personality; it doesn't work. < 1347651885 488424 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It. Doesn't. Work. < 1347651886 477275 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo aaaaaaaaaa < 1347651940 386186 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1347651986 736035 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where's fungot? < 1347652051 782792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may have a thing. < 1347652053 797695 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing a thing. < 1347652055 358906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thing. < 1347652090 276015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to thing but thing's a long time. < 1347652097 131109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now it thinged. < 1347652119 242937 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1347652125 521912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm kinda slep.) < 1347652134 271961 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot slep? < 1347652134 989939 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: did you let it!), and c1 x is x. < 1347652338 274423 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1347652343 405882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wokked up some kind of 30 hours ago, but don't want to get all misdiurnaligned. < 1347652574 464382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sleeping for 30 hours seems worse than being a bit misaligned < 1347652653 427473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There weren't really opportunities. < 1347652663 519417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've'pt'n'e'lane. < 1347652689 283890 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you doing? < 1347652716 582240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was this interactive multimedia system, I mostly just fiddled with that. < 1347652724 174628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those seats don't run. I mean, recline much. < 1347652798 991270 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"an interesting problem crossed my path, and when I looked up to the clock, 30 hours had passed already" < 1347652829 517310 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "interactive multimedia system"... does that mean you've been playing VIDEO GAMES? < 1347652858 355222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, it's the personal video/audio on demand kind of thing. (Okay, it had some games.) < 1347652884 183177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also including Bejeweled®. < 1347652923 87335 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wait, they have an implementation of lode runner in here? let's try it... holy crap we're tomorrow!" < 1347653027 71445 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person in the next seat was playing some kind of "learn a language" word-matching phrase-filling whatevernot kind of game, and doing that for Finnish. < 1347653032 519058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was sorta weird. < 1347653430 463157 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a word "anticategory" for a semigroupoid(category except identity) which has no endomorphisms. < 1347653543 507111 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did he finnish the game? < 1347653608 270495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: She, and at least some levels, yes. < 1347653623 350245 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347653686 571649 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347653741 78373 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1347653789 220528 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347654292 635707 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347655583 115248 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347655906 387850 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1347656133 610514 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1347656135 436707 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish < 1347656325 927990 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: I suspect fizzie was too slep to notice the pun < 1347656344 553124 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it did take me 40 minutes < 1347656915 900570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: No, I noticed it. < 1347656927 237416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I just didn't want to dignify it with a response. < 1347657146 496517 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you just did < 1347657348 496862 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-114.elisa.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1347657580 918053 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1347657582 452755 :atriq!~Taneb@host-78-148-1-69.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1347658632 324130 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p5B132D0A.dip.t-dialin.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427] < 1347658859 495501 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347658869 85985 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347659006 788521 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :After I make the Elemental Solitaire Famicom game, then I might make up the hangman game on Famicom, using the Famicom keyboard. < 1347659051 940758 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1347659177 841414 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :function < 1347659186 396714 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why do you like famicom < 1347659259 816222 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try to write some software on it. < 1347659308 194011 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The only hardware I have is a clone, which has a 60-pin slot and some games built-in, many of which do not work properly.) < 1347659335 548819 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also have no way to program a ROM cartridge. But, I do have emulator, so I can use that.) < 1347659506 370207 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it hard to write for < 1347659515 795660 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat. < 1347659521 375793 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 assembly? < 1347659525 139854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1347659536 465572 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And decimal mode doesn't work. < 1347659540 553963 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that LFSR PRNG work out for you < 1347659558 306375 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided not to use it; I am using something else. < 1347659594 475813 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1347659684 415146 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, it uses ARCFOUR to shuffle the deck many times per frame, and has a limit equal to the number of cards remaining in the deck (at first 52); this limit is reduced when cards are dealt, causing the memory for cards already dealt to remain static until the game is restarted. < 1347659741 520688 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It seems easier to simulate modulus arithmetic if doing it this way, for one thing.) < 1347659757 423660 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ARCFOUR < 1347659777 65860 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The open-source and non-trademarked version of RC4 < 1347659799 98492 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually only a part of the ARCFOUR algorithm is used; not all of it.) < 1347659828 364228 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1347659956 646244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:34:14: basically for a program to be reversible, it must not allow information to be destroyed right? < 1347659959 625530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:34:35: but there's nothing wrong with information being created < 1347659971 142054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, those are equally forbidden. < 1347659984 128151 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1347660017 520339 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the code to shuffle the cards: http://sprunge.us/PNJM < 1347660025 989251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess you could have a weaker version of reversible as you say < 1347660027 51126 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point was that a program could be "reversible" (not sure that's the right word) without its reverse being reversible as well < 1347660032 447417 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1347660102 471150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hm < 1347660121 812166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can I access sprunge.us over Gopher? < 1347660127 119542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programming languages don't actually create information most of the time < 1347660137 713073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they are deterministic < 1347660171 114875 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Unfortunately not because it seems to requires a Host: header. < 1347660173 964298 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well you can ask for input, or use functions like a random number, or stuff < 1347660186 254617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Gopher doesn't have that? < 1347660191 267825 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, what a useless protocol. < 1347660198 521474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet *NEEDS* a Host: header! < 1347660205 146781 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you can do it without a Host: header, as follows: gopher://sprunge.us:80/0http://sprunge.us/PNJM < 1347660217 328824 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you can do it without a Host: header, as follows: gopher://sprunge.us:80/0GET%20http://sprunge.us/PNJM < 1347660219 662663 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure many programming languages have functions to "put stuff back on the input buffer" < 1347660221 581428 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might work. < 1347660247 947894 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though "take stuff back from the output buffer" is impossible if it has been flushed < 1347660253 803668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: With IPv6 you don't need, which is why some gopher is IPv6-only. < 1347660271 726778 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1347660304 893048 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher will make a comeback! < 1347660325 337412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for a problem with the sprunge.us it is using Google server which has a bug making headerless HTTP not working properly. < 1347660329 659170 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell Google to fix this. < 1347660339 683180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google please fix this < 1347660343 533368 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pleasefixtheiphone.com/ < 1347660343 704915 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Most wanted ever | Please fix the iPhone < 1347660439 620534 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so did you read the whole log before you joined? < 1347660490 856515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, so "real fast" applied to "download" < 1347660501 778882 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i _am_ reading the whole log. < 1347660524 887731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn i was imagining Nora as the fastest hairdresser ever :( < 1347660549 149720 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it was kinda catchy < 1347660553 262506 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347660650 135707 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I had an idea for a nondeterministic program < 1347660673 88420 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Nora apparently died in the first movie, so I guess not. < 1347660700 588713 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that'd use Pascal's triangle - that is, have an "instruction pointer" bounce off several nodes before hitting an instruction to execute < 1347660712 114950 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/rogram/language < 1347660758 70473 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe some of the instruction would make the instruction pointer bounce back into that structure. or maybe there can be flow control instructions on the node < 1347660776 100729 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like switches or whatever) < 1347660819 571349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347660832 310679 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_machine ? < 1347660851 956208 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1347660859 58995 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, if that's what I think it is) < 1347660875 50133 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a quick question for everyone, but I want to ask it someplace that's not logged < 1347660886 993911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i got to it by googling "pascal's triangle binomial distribution balls" < 1347660899 520832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i couldn't remember what it was called < 1347660916 137799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's ok it's just hemorrhoids < 1347660954 678365 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe you can paste it in a place that's cleared every day < 1347661017 611857 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347661137 569819 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347661196 623880 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: is #sgeosquestion logged? < 1347661209 497562 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :just asking hypothetically < 1347661469 912828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : LAMBDA APPLY ZERO LAMBDA LAMBDA ZERO should be an "at", or a cat that ignores the first character < 1347661516 271536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\x (\y \z z) < 1347661529 801768 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhh < 1347661531 650156 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you explain why RFNHS3:SDD is turing-complete? < 1347661542 305181 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so \x expr means lambdax.expr < 1347661546 997628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: because it encodes lambda calculus, duh < 1347661559 388652 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get the numbers thing < 1347661569 82429 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1347661571 514007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it's de bruijn notation, i wrote < 1347661571 766342 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :how application works < 1347661582 846535 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand de bruijn notation really < 1347661617 844694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you replace "n" by the variable of the n'th surrounding lambda. starting at 0'th in this case. < 1347661672 590303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1347661686 816430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1347661703 811486 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ (0 \ \ 0) < 1347661717 747537 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: though I appreciate the de bruijn link, your explanation on the channel was far more explicit than the one on the wiki page, if I recall correctly < 1347661718 986754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ x (x \y \z z) < 1347661767 312227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: well the thing is that actually doing the application with de bruikn indices is a bit complicated - you need to adjust some of the numbers < 1347661780 287828 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347661787 183820 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1347661800 222005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i couldn't be bothered to write it all out < 1347661801 105767 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause of names clash or something? < 1347661808 636986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not clash. < 1347661822 743874 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know what you mean < 1347661841 303487 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: so basically, by default the variable in a lambda expression is named ZERO < 1347661848 5440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you copy an expression to a different level, all the numbers that refer outside the expression need to be added a constant to < 1347661876 972102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while those that refer _inside_ the expression are kept as is < 1347661884 539152 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you have LAMBDA (... LAMBDA(...)), the ZERO in the innermost lambda is the variable of the innermost lambda; so the variable of the toplevel lambda is ONE MORE THAN ZERO < 1347661932 840766 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular the variable of a lambda may be named differently in different parts of the expression < 1347661933 656074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok atriq's at looks right when i fixed my error < 1347661948 624937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: exactly! < 1347661962 457706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't i write that on the wiki... < 1347661968 224410 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1347661976 793257 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you did write that on this channel :) < 1347661994 249923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1347661999 507991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1347662293 138327 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: λx.(x λy.xy) would be written as λ(ZERO λ(ONE ZERO)) < 1347662359 313956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: expanded the wiki explanation a bit, probably still hard to read :P < 1347662368 489949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(λ.0 (λ.1 0)) < 1347662389 510887 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except it would actually be LAMBDA APPLY ZERO LAMBDA APPLY ONE MORE THAN ZERO ZERO) < 1347662427 900564 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I feel like I'm hurting my computer when writing like that < 1347662440 194355 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thats your brain < 1347662448 543816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: rsi-ffic < 1347662458 677988 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you programming in Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download? < 1347662467 982643 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a webapp framework for Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download yet? < 1347662483 604546 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a webapp framework is < 1347662489 276540 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is in the Unimplemented category < 1347662494 942484 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a framework which helps you write web applications < 1347662495 111987 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION for a microsecond considers replacing ESME by Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster in the topic
< 1347662560 668332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps send a message to people making sprunge tell them to remove the HTTP headers. < 1347662576 485538 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need RFNHS3:SDD.NET < 1347662615 745063 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget the Download PART < 1347662636 840936 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise people will think the hairdresser is real fast! < 1347662706 700875 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:46:35: No < 1347662706 719369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:46:42: It means apply KI to input < 1347662721 971052 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a yoga thing < 1347662723 296391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think atriq is _still_ confused about the term "apply to" < 1347662766 145498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one applies a function to an argument, but he seems to be using it in reverse < 1347662808 198924 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but his actual examples show he means RFNHS3SDD to have the usual order < 1347662870 871517 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only imagine this isn't helped by everything potentially being a function and an argument < 1347662880 632081 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1347662897 98450 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@_@ < 1347662922 979563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, itidus21 don't faint, it's _okay_ to be right occasionally! < 1347662952 258608 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :APPLY LAMBDA APPLY ZERO ZERO LAMBDA APPLY ZERO ZERO < 1347662955 642106 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey look, infinite loop < 1347662956 70570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats himself for being evil -----###
< 1347662977 486968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\(0 0) \(0 0)) < 1347662984 718276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1347663037 733271 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually the example that made me began to not understand how ocaml worked < 1347663041 804780 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :let x x = x in x x < 1347663091 610214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that's the same... < 1347663094 439316 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok it could be less confusing as "let f x = x in f f" < 1347663104 501718 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes it is < 1347663110 590213 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1347663112 772162 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1347663115 786192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym = x x < 1347663122 347864 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1347663123 806716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which btw cannot type < 1347663129 797760 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that was the problem < 1347663133 607878 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347663142 561514 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you give option -t to ocaml < 1347663148 652775 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what? < 1347663175 424567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there's an option to allow cyclic types, i used it for an unlambda -> ocaml "compiler" < 1347663198 115209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite sure it was called -t < 1347663208 839127 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well -t is not in the toplevel otpions < 1347663223 998685 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : -rectypes Allow arbitrary recursive types < 1347663224 241745 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe < 1347663316 365460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's it < 1347663322 555111 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let x x = x in x x;; < 1347663322 811848 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : '_a -> '_a = < 1347663323 38913 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let x x = x x in x x;; < 1347663323 257733 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^CInterrupted. < 1347663327 399709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/unl2caml/ < 1347663328 363502 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with otpion -rectypes) < 1347663348 4738 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the second line I interrupted because apparently it was indeed an infinite loop) < 1347663384 345865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1347663442 981936 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :# let y = (let x x = x in x x) in y y;; < 1347663443 234909 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :- : 'a -> 'a as 'a = < 1347663450 789216 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hummmm never had "as 'a" before < 1347663467 875477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell has the newtype declaration instead, which requires you to explicitly wrap things but is deleted on compilation < 1347663531 275437 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (let y = (let x x = x in x x) in y y) 3;; < 1347663531 743192 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: This expression has type int but an expression was expected of type < 1347663531 761702 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'a -> 'a as 'a < 1347663534 930925 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1347663541 530676 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was supposed to yield a 3 < 1347663593 606256 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"let x x = x" makes x the identity; "in x x" is id id which is id; so y is id; so y y is id; so (...) 3 should be 3 < 1347663628 576145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: 'a -> 'a as 'a means a function which takes its own type as argument and result. you cannot pass it an int. < 1347663642 700252 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhh nice < 1347663661 662411 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hum < 1347663665 661940 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could pass it itself < 1347663670 566976 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... that's about it? < 1347663719 454457 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lots of other things fit, e.g. any pure lambda expression < 1347663748 987827 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :'a -> 'a as 'a basically is the closest thing you can get to untyped lambda calculus < 1347663809 587360 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1347663811 17671 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a93.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice to have such comments automatically beeing associated with these 'expressions' by a bot, to be accessible for other users looking for help/comments < 1347663857 312449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: `pastelogs, hth < 1347663971 324202 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a93.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm can you make make an example for "'a -> 'a as 'a" and "means a function which takes its own type as argument and result. you cannot pass it an int" < 1347664027 225221 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347664045 426406 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell atriq so your church incrementation excerpt translates to λxyzt.x z (y z t), right? < 1347664046 111862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347664053 103112 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:13:31: I thought they had a formal definition for "everything" < 1347664056 206397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:13:35: that definition is turing machine < 1347664058 852713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:14:04: or if you like lambda calculus, they are equivalently powerful < 1347664070 586028 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, now you're getting to the interesting part of the log :) < 1347664086 823841 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not everything, is it? < 1347664093 965647 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no context for that.
< 1347664100 524526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can talk about things more powerful than Turing machines, though. < 1347664132 652346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of what makes the church-turing thesis so believable is that every time they have invented another way to compute that can actually be realistically achieved, it turns out to be at most that powerful < 1347664158 675539 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what about those quantum computers < 1347664192 601361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not more powerful. exponentially faster in some cases, but given enough time, they're the same strength. < 1347664221 208245 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that's disappointing < 1347664222 134868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof: a classical computer can simulate a quantum computer using exponential time < 1347664244 295415 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we probably have to wait for the time-travel machine then < 1347664252 179992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's just complex matrix calculations, after all) < 1347664330 163800 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a93.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we use the effect of quantum entanglement in some way to speed up things in some way? < 1347664373 843980 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a93.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-some way < 1347664387 619497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hagb4rd: well that's the theory of quantum computing. at most exponential speedup, however. (and not for all calculations, prime factorization is the most famous one.) < 1347664397 166545 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's called quantum computing < 1347664413 635322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just have to quote the tagline of scott aronson's blog... < 1347664415 722222 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a93.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1347664424 972291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*aaronson < 1347664442 577929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Quantum computers are not known to be able" < 1347664442 596469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to solve NP-complete problems in polynomial time, < 1347664445 465955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can be simulated classically with exponential slowdown. < 1347664459 511424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't irssi have dwim pasting :( < 1347664470 676088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-" +" < 1347664544 59915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : @tell atriq so your church incrementation excerpt translates to λxyzt.x z (y z t), right? <-- that looks correct for incrementation, anyway < 1347664681 931641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh this recent post looks a bit relevant, and funny :P http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1121 < 1347665594 346285 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure he explains much < 1347665687 409383 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-d9329a93.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you want a Turing machine to toast bread, you need to connect it to a toaster; then the TM can easily handle the toaster’s internal logic (unless this particular toaster requires solving the halting problem or something like that to determine how brown the bread should be!). " *laugh < 1347665890 904862 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347666152 301837 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, the TM may still be working on the logic long after your hunger passes < 1347666201 917168 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :another argument in favour of quantum toasting < 1347666377 239486 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347666393 87389 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347666713 288672 :function!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :invariable < 1347666730 372461 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1347666891 607651 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds