< 1347667268 613392 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any FPGA/CPLD where the software to program it is built-in to the device itself instead of requiring a PC? < 1347667432 779200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (still it does sound like "oh btw, did I mention the bridge you've been walking on for the last few years has never been tested? It could potentially collapse at any moment.") < 1347667467 339098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum hth >:) < 1347667513 375028 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_field_theory, a false vacuum is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metastability sector of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space that appears to be a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_state, but is unstable due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instanton effects that may http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling to a lower energy state. < 1347667519 831412 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks wikipedia, that explains a lot < 1347667532 980433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what kind of copy/paste is that. < 1347667571 359336 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm I've been using colloquy for a couple weeks and its behaviour is often... unexpected < 1347667573 597509 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the introduction is not very helpful. < 1347667683 120567 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying very hard to believe that what follow is < 1347667694 93392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess not. < 1347667717 203358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schild%27s_Ladder link in there instead. < 1347668175 4856 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the part about it being in quantum field theory may be a red herring to understanding what a false vacuum is < 1347668418 388790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that _does_ tend to hide the sheer horror of it under incomprehensible math, yes. < 1347668506 377260 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok well see you < 1347668513 872056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1347668523 746762 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thanks for all the interesting new stuff < 1347668531 206687 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all sounds so fun all these big words < 1347668551 652414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/120914.html :P < 1347668551 722441 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: that's dr. turing to you, punk < 1347668688 348751 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a pretty good comic < 1347668763 579942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can this be used to make a program on microcontrollers (and on the FPGA itself) to do dynamic programming on FPGA? http://dfusion.com.au/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=AT40K+Bitstream+Format < 1347668810 254483 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well this is the problem with the universe http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/120907.html < 1347668878 379596 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :dora is the healthy one < 1347669120 15308 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and heres what the comic points to < 1347669144 690603 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just happened to have open http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox < 1347669222 529919 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the thing of it is, if one package can be unique, with a special recipient and a magical journey < 1347669259 472640 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you add more packages, at what point do they cease to be unique, and on magical journeys < 1347669366 592167 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine that talkshow hosts feel the same way about celebrities < 1347669655 984965 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, help me my brain starts learning every time i attend lectures.. but they have hooked me up to youtube lecture streams as in a clockwork orange (i admit i dont want to learn) < 1347670577 138993 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...thank you for making me regret pasting that link. < 1347670592 855856 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just what iti does < 1347670600 907676 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i react like this to everything < 1347670714 836224 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the micro scale i am typing... on the macro scale i am dying < 1347670775 736226 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, can i really treat dying as a verb i am doing? < 1347671118 871135 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well.. if i bite into a cooke am i doing hysteresis? < 1347671135 250625 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cookie < 1347671253 701760 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha.. < 1347671364 700282 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Noras-Hair-Salon-Shear-Disaster/product-reviews/B004FK5E8E < 1347671599 525132 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains a lot < 1347672106 95069 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347672111 590700 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sumotorrent.com/en/details/6113662/Noras Hair Salon 3 Shear Disaster 2011 DVDRip XviD-ph2.html < 1347672307 844773 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch this movie for us itidus21 < 1347672516 644801 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in another universe i did... all that is needed now is to find this other me < 1347672588 520989 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so began the quest to find another universe < 1347673394 291528 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: in context "everything" meant "everything in the real world" < 1347673407 758744 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we did discuss the arithmetic hierarchy later, though < 1347673431 585120 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how goes? < 1347673573 429232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is back in the bay area.
< 1347673620 200089 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bay of biscay? < 1347673634 565766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any other? < 1347673886 35513 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bagel area < 1347673950 920639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION probably ought to figure out what to do next.
< 1347673980 22864 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347674841 210990 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would a 32 bit version of the 6502 look like < 1347675056 851802 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogs playing poker < 1347675096 938891 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 32-bit processor with only 3 registers would be amusing < 1347675131 638197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically x86, isn't it? < 1347675138 284034 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :c.c < 1347675152 388400 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahah :D < 1347675161 165566 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's why it's called 386 < 1347675175 52775 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PRIVMSG #esoteric :86 is kinda half way between a z80 and an ARM < 1347675230 189770 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 86*2-80 -- ARM? < 1347675231 243658 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 92 < 1347675303 730685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPv4 is running out. < 1347675316 535276 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a strong believer in path dependance in PC hardware..(was just reading about the word path dependance) and i have tried to rant about it in some places i think < 1347675353 110238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is itidus21 a bot? < 1347675385 231450 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what do you think about path dependence? < 1347675386 177375 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: http://www.scheme.com/ tspl2d/ fnord the hopes of fixing the font problem, is what i'm saying is it's trivial to write < 1347675410 42994 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1347675455 537401 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot should have a mode like sourbot_ where you can seed it with a word. < 1347675455 898097 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if i want. < 1347675462 348462 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you want. < 1347675462 858428 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it's time to poof. it's like fnord < 1347675471 750498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1347675472 86274 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1347675474 158604 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1347675474 808711 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: hyphens or not. listening ( reading) feels uncomfortable because i suppose i could < 1347675476 37430 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1347675476 846632 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ( that's cl, though, if i let it loose in e.g. his fnord book " combinatory logic" is stupid? try using poc. < 1347675477 323061 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1347675478 220717 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: but stuff like fnord. and here, " i", a book on my head as something i can never remember which argument i'm allowed to do ' korsossa' a module system, < 1347675480 862976 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fungot wants to talk about fnord. < 1347675481 543637 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: you're probably part of a type does not exist in your paste is an example line of code that is either working or very close < 1347675489 121632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Are you an op in here? < 1347675499 538909 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, am I, fungot? < 1347675500 246350 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: and check with xev what keys are bound to a procedure in the procedure's scope. if you < 1347675509 708107 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he says no. < 1347675578 650988 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think for example PC's don't need to be based on circuit boards. < 1347675623 57156 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again that may be because i don't realize what all that stuff on circuit boards does < 1347675681 488315 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1347675918 412950 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i think pc's are too upgrade focused.. i think that the machines could possibly be more efficient if you just ordered one efficient mass of electrical components which didn't care about space or extensability < 1347675936 941922 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :^extensibility < 1347676076 797481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't *have* to be based on circuitboards, and indeed the bulk of the circuitry isn't actually on a board (it's in the chips), but boards are easy to manufacture and design. < 1347676166 899263 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, circuit boards are still used even on computers not meant to be upgradeable < 1347676173 62985 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the macbook air and "ultrabooks" < 1347676175 296181 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also cell phones, etc < 1347676193 209038 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm.. ok ill skip onto my next point then. < 1347676197 539297 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a tremendous fixed cost to engineering a bunch of stuff together onto one chip < 1347676199 276286 :nortti!nortti@dsl-hkibrasgw3-ff25c000-52.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1347676203 400184 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only do it if you're selling a bajillion of something < 1347676216 966369 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you try to buy standard parts and integrate them at board level < 1347676218 355194 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, look up 'system on a chip' though, it's basically what you were talking about. < 1347676230 788794 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple sells a bajillion iphones and cares very much about making them thin, light, poer-efficient, etc. < 1347676233 715478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they design some custom chips < 1347676240 963263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should release a new dip called "system on a chip". < 1347676274 758190 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would sell well among people who were on a good salary < 1347676295 756529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even then you'll still need a board to solder USB ports etc. onto. < 1347676315 362221 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: you can make an AVR microprocessor blink prime numbers to an LED with only the chip, a battery, a resistor, and the LED < 1347676318 289994 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no circuit board < 1347676433 712401 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if they sat down (as they always do before working) and decided to do a design which incorporated all the parts of a pc in one dependant design < 1347676445 934791 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they have standing desks < 1347676525 215372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, how often do you think Clojure people copy Haskell stuff without realizing that Clojure functions can do things that Haskell functions can't? < 1347676527 348212 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine they could cut down on bus latency if they had enough design freedom < 1347676549 903391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You'd only do that if you were really board. < 1347676654 213789 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21 are you an electrical engineer now < 1347676718 552932 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a cosmology professor < 1347676806 860809 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: no.. >.< < 1347676909 301185 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: it is pretty common these days to combine multiple semiconductor dies into a single package that a circuit board designer would call "a chip" < 1347676925 849421 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. processor and ram stacked together into a single package with a single set of legs (well, more likely, balls) to talk to the outside world < 1347676982 68310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a level of integration between die-level and board-level < 1347676996 325159 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD makes this 12-core CPU which is basically just two of their 6-core CPUs stuck together in one package which fits in one socket < 1347677008 294827 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a box with 4 of those at my last job... it was pretty sick < 1347677027 837907 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other day i heard someone argue that cpu is a bottleneck and gpu is not... that sparked this train of thought that they are mad < 1347677040 904750 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on what you're doing... < 1347677046 921523 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah @_@ < 1347677051 440991 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does.. < 1347677056 22008 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for bitcoin mining the GPU is the only important component < 1347677068 916330 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people build boxes with four $500 graphics cards, $20 CPU, $20 of RAM < 1347677086 165594 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need the IO bandwidth to/from the graphics cards < 1347677086 844363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :$20 can get you a lot of RAM these days. < 1347677093 994356 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's laptop has $40 worth of RAM.
< 1347677103 418372 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people will cut pins off of the graphics cards so they fit in the slower PCIe x1 slots < 1347677117 257057 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one extreme < 1347677319 633641 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that the form of productivity they are doing with those graphics cards is that they are changing the world by accumulating money < 1347677381 943187 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure of the right wording for this < 1347677465 462624 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure that kind of bitcoin mining is profitable anymore < 1347677495 174870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are any other kinds of bitcoin mining profitable? < 1347677501 868118 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also even if you accumulate a bunch of bitcoins, the exchange you use to turn them into real money will probably get hacked and you'll lose everything < 1347677515 315457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you turn them into real money first. < 1347677525 225627 :madbr!boulam@24.157.253.190 PART :#esoteric < 1347677620 6387 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, on some level it is productive to transfer or create money < 1347678866 458320 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmm.. could it be that some software is best written for gpus then? < 1347678876 660169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, yes < 1347678884 979532 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some algorithms execute much much faster on GPUs < 1347678900 626709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GPUs have what's called a SIMD architecture: single instruction, multiple data < 1347678903 763928 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding is that most software runs exclusively on cpus < 1347678913 874998 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that you can operate on a lot of data at once, if you're doing the same thing to each piece of data < 1347678944 720183 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :humm < 1347678963 318636 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could call them something fancy like gpu-apps < 1347678968 917744 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case of bitcoin mining, you are applying the same hash function (double SHA256) to a lot of different inputs < 1347678990 101612 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find an input such that the output has a certain unusual property < 1347679019 377893 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of the viability of the currency, the core bitcoin idea of using hash chaining as a distributed timestamp service is really fucking clever < 1347679035 118065 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the coolest new ideas i've heard in computer science in the past few years < 1347679087 555699 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what hashcash does? < 1347679107 503872 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in the "searching for input where output has X propert" thing < 1347679137 517521 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, GitHub for Windows has an ugly metro-ish UI < 1347679209 296248 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some compilers should have a -gpu parameter < 1347679269 908783 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hmm, it does use hashing for proof of work < 1347679279 182393 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't provide a distributed timestamp service or anything so fancy < 1347679307 940124 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bitcoin protocol lets you establish cryptographically that you had a specific piece of data at a specific time < 1347679314 215962 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :without anyone trusting a central entity < 1347679322 926257 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems useful beyond cryptocurrency < 1347679338 479560 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an application to naming (namecoin) and there would seem to be applications to intellectual property, etc < 1347679344 379902 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i see its called gpgpu < 1347680187 273132 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347680325 290377 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1347680352 915718 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1347680503 193223 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347680508 278205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347680553 160882 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347680816 523840 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For algorithms which execute much faster on GPUs, is that what Checkout esolang is for? < 1347681149 133529 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347681187 160433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think so < 1347681435 278867 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347681452 996709 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :APPLY LAMBDA foo APPLY itidus21 < 1347681464 483497 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that.. < 1347681535 930183 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric : what i mean is < 1347681546 923819 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can apply itidus to foo < 1347681565 652864 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think i said it wrong < 1347681613 935138 :invariable!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1347681634 612137 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg, applying itidus21 to ESME results in a country practice < 1347681666 330779 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iwt.net.au/sideprojects/esme-groove.jpg < 1347681723 638216 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347681821 329159 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347682289 910164 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347682556 607563 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347683949 49394 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347683960 536584 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347686241 637056 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There exists a language called Smarty. < 1347686286 887807 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a template language. How boring < 1347686632 300653 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347687070 930000 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-127-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347687398 219594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, compiler feature idea: if the user supplies code that's incorrectly indented, it just reindents the source as it compiles it < 1347687425 76907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is continuing on their crusade to annoy both Python fans and non-Python fans equally with programming language style
< 1347687455 175351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if the source is read-only, it'd refuse to compile it unless it were correctly indented already < 1347687480 343472 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1347687493 814020 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Go has a One True Style which is enforced by some tool < 1347687498 309094 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it's part of the compiler per se < 1347687521 61114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that this lets me do other things too < 1347687532 319319 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the user supplies bad code, delete it < 1347687539 433055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, there'd be an "unreachable" keyword that you can use to mark code that should be unreachable < 1347687550 228386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it actually /is/ unreachable, then the compiler comments it out for you with special reversible comments < 1347687571 623441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and comments it back in again if it turns out to be not unreachable, so your editor's syntax highlighter can warn you) < 1347687590 942275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you might see zzo38's Checkout question a page or so above < 1347687946 591604 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347688004 302418 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Off-topic, but what's controversial about ais523's UTM? < 1347688045 256754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses an infinite tape that's initiated with a complicated pattern < 1347688085 449717 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the question is whether it's legal to have a pre-initialized tape? < 1347688088 655641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the question becomes how much of the universality is in the setup and how much is in the actual TM < 1347688096 904954 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram thinks so. < 1347688138 500923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well his rule 110 automaton also used infinite setup, although iiuc that was at least periodic on each side < 1347688197 296189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :("his" in the sense he maybe invented the automaton, not the proof of universality, which he only paid for.) < 1347688231 709573 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then sued the prover when he tried to publish it independently < 1347688271 861618 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm personally much more confident on TC-ness when input and output are finite. < 1347688272 710759 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the 2,3 machine < 1347688288 269545 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians and their sillyness < 1347688293 12287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: i'm saying they have the same issue, although the 2,3 machine more so < 1347688326 347677 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: clearly he is so bored in his work that he has time to go around suing people < 1347688351 201947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: ... you know nothing about wolfram, i take. < 1347688370 666303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has an ego about 10 sizes bigger than the solar system. < 1347688405 87860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :he sued so that it would be first published in his own book, which is full of hype. < 1347688416 307322 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh that book < 1347688431 576760 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not that book < 1347688438 548559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a new kind of science" < 1347688457 882514 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A kind of nuisance < 1347688495 59657 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wolfram published an article on particle physics[6] but claimed to be bored and left Eton prematurely in 1976" < 1347688501 271335 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so he really does get bored.... < 1347688539 437027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: sorry but you aren't original :P http://www.amazon.com/review/R31DLUYNKIUR0C < 1347688604 661234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 of 16 people found the following review helpful. but just 1 star. < 1347688679 100233 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is also interesting http://www.amazon.com/review/B004FK5E8E < 1347688700 337989 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it is a universal principle that everyone of sufficient complexity tends to make fun of Wolfram. < 1347688725 601706 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's the reviewer that gives the star. < 1347688756 324803 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that Isaac Newton was also a jackass < 1347688787 832454 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which doesn't make Wolfram comparable to Newton except in that regard) < 1347689014 137899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wolfram thinks so. ← I used to think this, but I changed my mind; the mathematicians at Wolfram Science who actually /read/ the proof think so < 1347689024 964229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, Wolfram actually doesn't know and isn't interested < 1347689061 290400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shell.cas.usf.edu/~wclark/ANKOS_humor.html < 1347689114 711213 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? I thought he did all the actual math at WR. < 1347689132 742997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever would make you think that? < 1347689149 819673 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347689168 527825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, what did you think all the other people at Wolfram Science (or is it Wolfram Research?) actually /do/? < 1347689287 53586 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They run around picking up after his brilliant discoveries < 1347689294 277573 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1347689328 697775 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I made https://github.com/drocta/TILDE-ATH < 1347689331 866105 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: anyway, the main controversy is whether the initialization is /too/ complex to be considered TC < 1347689358 853553 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm....? < 1347689377 904878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: a system has two parts, an inference rule and an initial condition, right? < 1347689385 254086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2,3 machine has a very very simple inference rule < 1347689405 918551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in order to get it to emulate an arbitrary Turing machine, you need a very very complex initial condition < 1347689420 361444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the debate's about whether initial conditions that complex should be "allowed" < 1347689442 578845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, it's obvious that that one should be from an engineering point of view, but mathematicians need precise definitions and they didn't formulate one in advance that applies to this < 1347689455 815179 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's still a computable initial condition, presumably < 1347689469 253947 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so you still get an initial condition even for a machine which ends up not halting < 1347689474 458748 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of a significant point < 1347689487 62268 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the problem is it's infinitely long < 1347689499 11338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some obvious ways of cheating if you're allowed an infinitely long infinite condition < 1347689509 480952 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which? < 1347689509 990413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "simulate the program, keep printing 0s while you're simulating and 1 if it happens to halt" < 1347689525 165956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's entirely computable, in that you can compute the first n bits of the initial condition no problem, likewise the nth < 1347689538 920007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it encodes haltingness into the initial condition rather than the actual program < 1347689552 211073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :messing with infinities tends to lead to problems in maths < 1347689562 633541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the approach I'm trying to go down is to generate a finite description of the infinite condition < 1347689569 150085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with an expansion program that's obviously sub-TC < 1347689580 19017 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last few years have been trying to define "obviously sub-TC" :) < 1347689597 397313 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally the condition should be independent of the program. < 1347689608 163194 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you need to mess with infinites then you need to do it properly < 1347689632 24175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, I came up with a definition, http://esolangs.org/wiki/1cnis - but have not been able to prove that that definition fits the initial condition I actually came up with… < 1347689638 851993 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the MtG UTM manages to encode the infinitely long initial condition somehow? < 1347689640 455304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-/–/ < 1347689648 350959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :drocta: what is TILDE-ATH? < 1347689653 775703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it doesn't, it just initialises it with blue < 1347689659 147143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I contacted the author about it to explain < 1347689659 335290 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wouldn't MtG's ability to encode the initial condition + ... oh, uh < 1347689661 548330 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ATH < 1347689662 605666 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1347689667 188950 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Magic machine is a straight-up turing machine < 1347689671 952772 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a blank tape (spooler) < 1347689677 775981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite both ways < 1347689698 407868 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ATH is a fictional programming language, in Homestuck (in Homestuck it's real) < 1347689704 157659 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :spooler alert < 1347689712 971878 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that. < 1347689726 842013 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on loops that continue so long as an object is "alive" < 1347689728 209870 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++ATZ < 1347689737 159259 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347689748 795535 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was more triggering on when something's not "alive" < 1347689755 957977 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does both < 1347689759 513672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, #esoteric: #acehack told me about the Magic 2,3 machine before #esoteric did < 1347689762 260315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be slipping ;) < 1347689781 765187 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ATH(VARNAME){loop this while alive}EXECUTE(executethisondeath); < 1347689797 151427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, there is actually a mistake in ANKOS that is Wolfram making the same mistake as the Magic machine person made < 1347689800 962414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told him about it over the phone < 1347689816 971702 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if this was today, then i think #esoteric in fact was a bit earlier < 1347689818 900880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, I'd managed to fix it in my head in a few seconds, so the theorem is correct, just not the proof < 1347689822 476309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it was yesterady < 1347689825 321576 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yesterday < 1347689832 929781 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then i don't know < 1347689833 99165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :around midday < 1347689854 519714 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And somehow or other there is a valid(?) program with two colors and weird nesting < 1347689858 707048 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an idea of Magic: the Gathering cards of programming language, once; now, this Magic 2,3 machine can even work without requiring any choices. However, what if you want to make input/output? < 1347689860 127557 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday < 1347689864 808789 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347689871 417350 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i was eating pizza and then i woke up < 1347689877 786909 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, common idea is that the colors were different threads. < 1347689886 51649 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday < 1347689890 249034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually Magic 2,3 machine still require cards to played in a certain way to start, and then it works without any choices. < 1347689895 429697 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :861) my best guess is 4 years ago but possibly also yesterday < 1347689901 771715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still has choices of whether to play "may" actions or not < 1347689916 525161 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347689917 802426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but moving away from that probably means you can't phase the Teysas… < 1347689920 735892 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic 2,3 machine. < 1347689927 175326 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant the 2,3 challenge :D < 1347689942 50880 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but the same person proved it with another machine, right? < 1347689954 891039 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, but he said he was working on a 2,18 < 1347689957 927637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'll be interested in < 1347689959 645499 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1347689965 755716 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if, something can be made using that, including both input and output? < 1347689970 839545 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But as it stands, MtG is NOT proven TC? < 1347689985 943976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I assume the 2,18 in question is uncontroversial: I haven't seen it, but that seems about the right number of colors for an uncontroversially TC 2-state Turing machine) < 1347689994 68108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, the proof as it stands is flawed < 1347690003 806372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should post that to Reddit < 1347690110 192380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when it's fixed < 1347690120 237872 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, am i to understand that someone implemented the 2,3 machine in mtg? < 1347690123 666551 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1347690128 793799 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, the fact that the current proof is flawed < 1347690133 106212 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the 2,18 version < 1347690140 553553 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in what sense was it implemented? < 1347690142 930895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.toothycat.net/~hologram/Turing/HowItWorks.html < 1347690158 481320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in the sense that if four players have specially constructed decks and are cooperating with each other < 1347690162 559535 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 < 1347690167 473241 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As specified the assumption is the players always take choices offered to them. < 1347690175 584207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they can set up a gamestate with an infinite series of triggered actions < 1347690185 707799 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they always take optional choices, it emulates the 2,3 machines < 1347690186 765331 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay now it works dunno what happened < 1347690191 303404 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1347690201 188429 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an edge case. < 1347690207 951040 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assumping the machine counts. < 1347690228 89290 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347690242 660267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we just need to partition Mark Rosewater to make a card that makes all optional abilities compulsory ;) < 1347690266 53673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually I had a similar idea of exactly the same effect, even without reading about the Magic 2,3 machine. < 1347690273 22683 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Surely this'd be *easy*. < 1347690279 209681 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, he is a mathematician. < 1347690302 887694 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: somehow I'm not surprised :) < 1347690364 937596 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many cards does it need? < 1347690382 844009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all /that/ many < 1347690399 523020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it needs six copies of the same legendary in play at once, which is slightly nontrivial but not impossible to arrange < 1347690421 580278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can steal them from other players or copy them, and use a separate card to make having multiple identically-named legendaries in play at once legal) < 1347690422 597541 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that why the card was made legendary? < 1347690426 657678 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you make the assumption all players are trying to set it up, it's not that much work. < 1347690428 355078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I doubt it < 1347690431 658019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed < 1347690446 671675 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we once made this board game which was awesome, you put pieces on the board and a chain reaction was triggered, so you could get multiple points on one turn. < 1347690461 561205 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and our record was like 20 or something < 1347690477 472163 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i implemented it on the computer and it inflooped after 5 turns and got infinity points. < 1347690503 837721 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a Limited game, if you manage to draft (or open, or collect, etc) six same card then you are not limited by the rule 4 of same card; you can use 6. Otherwise you have to use only however many you have < 1347690529 411424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it can't be done in limited because it uses cards from more than one block < 1347690548 927539 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have once played in a Limited game that involved two blocks. < 1347690564 121024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What if you make up the rule, that you are disqualified if the game doesn't end? < 1347690633 149413 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Usually a Limited game is only one block, but occasionally it is two blocks, or possibly even three or more. Constructed games are usually always two blocks, but may be unlimited to the number of blocks, or some other rule.) < 1347690639 152989 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nondeterministic. but i guess you could require that there are no infinite plays or you lose. < 1347690646 607979 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what fun to check.... :D < 1347690660 309068 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disqualified if you cannot prove that your move ends < 1347690695 584562 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1347690719 303446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2*pi / 0.01720209895 < 1347690720 193347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 365.2568983263281 < 1347690734 903011 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the game TC? If so, the no infinite plays thing might be difficult < 1347690749 656620 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder when wolfram's 1000 page book called "krhm actually it's MY 2,3 machine not alex's" comes out < 1347690761 961495 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What are you calculating? < 1347690776 342832 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "A " ++ fix ("new kind of " ++) < 1347690778 312746 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "A new kind of new kind of new kind of new kind of new kind of new kind of ... < 1347690793 302198 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://www.nature.com/news/the-astronomical-unit-gets-fixed-1.11416 had this number < 1347690794 386648 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my supervisor told me he was once invited to be invited speaker in one of wolfram's seminars < 1347690814 458468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the astronomical unit broken? < 1347690829 306878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like the average number of radians earth traces out per day < 1347690839 274046 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: can't be tc due to memory being limited to the number of pieces on board. < 1347690848 722686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well it was complicated to calculate < 1347690858 137230 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love SMBC! < 1347690865 56995 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a paper that contrived a TC game with finite pieces < 1347690870 817077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought astronomical units is the distance from here to the sun. < 1347690929 421685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but earth's orbit is elliptical so you need to choose one of the distances < 1347690937 455877 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think JPL ephemerides are not in astronomical units anyways so at least those ones are unaffected but are some ephemerides in astronomical units? < 1347690962 341037 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I thought you have to choose the average? (Do you have to know what kind of average?) < 1347691060 471940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well it's like with the meter, it was originally defined as 1/10000000'th of the meridian from the pole to equator through paris - but that's awkward to measure all the time so they redefined it, although in that case they even calculated it wrong the first time < 1347691109 48613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O yes I heard of that; they did it wrong the first time even by their definition. Better definitions anyways would be by something such as speed of light, I think it is now < 1347691117 54279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1347691232 480654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh there were other problems fixed by the recent fixing of au to meters < 1347691262 351204 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old definition didn't mesh with relativity and depended on the changing mass of the sun < 1347691262 558926 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the global economy < 1347691296 866337 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ephemerides need a unit of distance and of time. I think they use kilometres per day, although you could use lightseconds per second, or metres per second, or whatever (I happen to like using the speed of light as the ephemeris units, although this may cause problems in floating point precision I don't know for sure) < 1347691309 589810 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah the meter now is defined in terms of the oscillation period of a cesium atom < 1347691315 418189 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, so they fix that too now, is good < 1347691368 253181 :drocta!62ff0f37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.255.15.55 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1347691398 528871 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say it's also defined in terms of the speed of light, but the speed of light is an arbitrary unit conversion and not a fundamental physical constant < 1347691418 355235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i'm not sure that it's the atom itself which oscillates, just one of its kinds of emitted radiation < 1347691421 926428 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a much better definition would be "the distance from the mass center of earth to the mass center of the sun, in the reference frame of the mass center of the definition user's right eye" < 1347691467 571036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sounds usable. < 1347691487 749516 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you're right < 1347691579 30788 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you say it is defined in terms of the speed of light if you then define seconds in terms of the cesium atom? Therefore something must relate the distance and time, so you can have the units. < 1347691603 765763 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1347691613 944596 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :heegan < 1347691641 872591 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like humanistic units; you must define them in terms of physics instead, is much better. < 1347691659 273456 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying myself as a function to the topic... i almost forgot what i was about to say < 1347691661 796061 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you always know what they are even if you removed your right eye or whatever < 1347691664 790179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a humanistic unit? < 1347691673 362291 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, i'm just saying that "speed of light" is like "number of inches in a meter" < 1347691737 970834 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if sci fi has been written wherein many aspects of the universe are constant, like a chessboard or a video game < 1347691738 689215 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: No I don't think so! The speed of light is an actual speed, not a unitless number. Isn't it? < 1347691781 881132 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in traditional unit systems it is so, but in studying relativity it is convenient to use a unitless 1 as the speed of light < 1347691787 394470 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do that < 1347691799 833022 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Well, yes; I agree with that. That isn't what I meant, though. < 1347691801 873214 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry, i meant to say "rightmost eye" < 1347691808 41043 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can speed be unitless? < 1347691812 568445 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this fixes the issue you mentioned. < 1347691813 424281 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in a video game, the size of a planet tends to remain constant indefinitely.. for as long as there are people to play the game < 1347691819 258541 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because distance and time are actually the same kind of thing < 1347691828 93901 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that the speed of the light is the same speed no matter what number you use to represent it. < 1347691854 895681 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine this is true of things like dwarf fortress, minecraft, terraria, chess, secondlife, etc < 1347691856 764831 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's as if all along we had one unit for north-south distance, and a different unit for east-west distance, and then one day someone figured out that you can relate these < 1347691901 623568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do agree it is useful to use a unitless 1 since space and time just different dimensions (although the sign is opposite) < 1347691906 16955 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, Second Life's size isn't constant < 1347691914 742401 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space keeps getting added to it < 1347691928 912883 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They need room for all the penises < 1347691930 967184 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess "amount of possible space" might be constant < 1347691932 690977 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i suppose that my statement doesn't stand. < 1347691949 310349 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. i didnt quite get at the essence of the question < 1347691959 890544 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is unsure if they use ints or uints or something to specify regions
< 1347691979 472466 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they do, then yeah, Second Life has a finite size, but it's MUCH larger than currently accessible size < 1347691994 847877 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can create and lose blocks in minecraft and minesweeper < 1347692028 731918 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ok i know what i mean < 1347692038 290368 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should always know what you mean < 1347692041 184500 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in minecraft, a block is a perfect unit < 1347692042 372013 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then invent "mine card" game. < 1347692065 654640 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There exist half-blocks. < 1347692081 231124 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I don't know if those conceptually count as blocks to the engine < 1347692085 789786 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that's blasphemy < 1347692088 585244 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm and i suppose tat the actual objects are not always aligned to the blocks exactly < 1347692099 710482 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can stand on several blocks at once < 1347692100 977301 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use half-blocks usually people destroy your house < 1347692131 413439 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they conceptually count as blocks to the engine, you can't place stuff on them for instance < 1347692143 476544 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least you can't place a half-block and put a full block on top. < 1347692276 55976 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it seems that notch hasn't quite grasped that you can reuse parts of your code so almost all items have some bugs and features unique to them. < 1347692281 488790 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, as we see in games like rogue, the block as a ruler becomes a problem on non axis aligned lines < 1347692284 962295 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's hard to state anything definitive. < 1347692340 734591 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lets ignore my last statement < 1347692374 615151 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would using the speed of light as ephemeris units (you still need distance and time units; I mean the speed of light is 1 in these units) make calculation of apparent positions simpler in some ways? < 1347692389 926746 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21, it's only problematic in visual terms < 1347692401 528079 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the world of the game itself, there is no problem < 1347692407 666723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you know that foreign import wrapper allocates a new executable+writable page and copies some machine code into it at runtime? < 1347692425 638348 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's special cased that you can put two half-blocks of the same kind on top of each other < 1347692426 693982 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i guess in minecraft you can use blocks as rulers in any direction... but in a game like chess, not so easy < 1347692433 892341 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't mix two of different kinds though < 1347692467 584915 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think once I have made a game that has a similar rule < 1347692494 476398 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where if you push two half blocks of the same kind together you get a full block of that kind; if they are different then they block each other < 1347692576 655640 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get a full block in minecraft, you get something that looks like a full block but is much harder to break < 1347692663 481106 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i think i did know that, yes < 1347692666 343460 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work on iPhone < 1347692677 747535 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they careful to remap the page read-only after they're done writing to it? < 1347692689 855398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I see. < 1347692692 832830 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1347692765 426688 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make self-modifying codes to improve the speed and possible save memory? < 1347693011 913771 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but i don't want them to fall into the wrong hands < 1347693040 501926 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't want what to fall into the wrong hands? < 1347693080 489388 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you think there are any serious security implications? < 1347693102 19072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's presumably called from C, but the page is randomized and the code in it is GHC-generated. < 1347693178 301827 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you have a memory corruption bug somewhere else, the existence of a writeable executable page can help you exploit that bug < 1347693206 688049 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know LLVM has no commands for self-modifying codes and it is something I wanted it to have, for example one thing you could have is if some RAM variable is actually the operand to another instructions, and another possibility is something like INTERCAL's ABSTAIN and REINSTATE commands < 1347693208 460286 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1347693237 777062 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have some control over what GHC writes there, or you might be able to write there yourself < 1347693280 978277 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you can write to anywhere you like in the address space, you can doubtless do many other things < 1347693312 374872 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC code has many indirect jumps < 1347693345 366983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be possible to do something like ROP where you build fake thunks or something < 1347693366 681487 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could make for a fun CTF thing! < 1347693376 348873 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1347693384 712040 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a CTF that only 3 people would complete or care about ;) < 1347693423 881554 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if instead of the GHC RTS you were working with a toy lazy language < 1347693428 541994 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i could see it as one of the later levels in io < 1347693438 438829 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Half the fun of a CTF is learning about new things that work differently from the things you know. < 1347693442 226015 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1347693447 529599 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347693451 38222 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does CTF mean? < 1347693451 212536 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you know about Supervisor Mode Execution Protection? < 1347693463 550211 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i dont want self modifying codes which improve speed and save memory to fall into the wrong hands < 1347693493 139228 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: OK. < 1347693496 143543 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crashing... < 1347693498 375778 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1347693501 909754 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1347693513 319685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think I've heard of it. < 1347693513 829570 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess its safe enough here < 1347693516 572493 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :new in Ivy Bridge chips, when enabled an attempt to execute in kernel mode a page accessible by user code will fault < 1347693524 317076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "user/kernel bit" such that the kernel can't execute code in user pages? < 1347693539 606908 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have any such codes.. but i think i could at least think about what it means < 1347693539 945725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes some sense. < 1347693548 760403 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it is just a single control register bit < 1347693572 3221 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which interprets the existing "user" bit on pages this way < 1347693577 827070 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to its old meaning < 1347693582 326245 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the old meaning? < 1347693597 338748 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the old meaning is that pages without the user bit set can't be accessed by user-mode code < 1347693604 204472 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok to hell with it < 1347693627 254271 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1347693628 643095 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the pages *with* the user bit set can't be executed by kernel mode code < 1347693637 656464 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: when i applied my brain to the question, the answer seems to be to have conditionals with feedback.. < 1347693658 944109 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the condition which is selected the most often is optimized < 1347693664 279954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the effort and CPU time "wasted" on security is kind of annoying. < 1347693667 449311 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course, if the kernel really wanted to execute such a page, it could disable the feature or unset the user bit, but the idea is to prevent an attacker from tricking the kernel into executing such a page) < 1347693682 812162 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not sure how that might go exactly < 1347693697 763447 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: Yes you could do that too; some CPU instruction set might include commands for branch prediction, is one way, but that is other things too. < 1347693717 323531 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now you can't just put kernel mode shellcode in your exploit program and get the kernel to call it < 1347693719 454419 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess thats called branch prediction < 1347693725 645965 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1347693755 987652 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1347693758 419844 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means some of the techniques from userspace NX exploitation will be useful < 1347693772 346779 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROP, JIT spraying, etc. < 1347693818 620810 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it may be wasted effort but I prefer to live in a world where people dream up things like ROP and JIT spraying, it's just more interesting < 1347693862 993103 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like esoteric programming except that it's useful, e.g. for getting rich or sabotaging the iranian nuclear program < 1347693863 919625 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my idea was rather to make like INTERCAL's ABSTAIN but to directly modify the machine code instructions < 1347693932 867292 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the idea behind ROP is basically that every compiled executable gives rise to an esolang, whose primitive instructions are every sequence of code bytes ending in an (intended or unintended) return instruction < 1347693940 347122 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else I like other than self-modifying codes, is also self-modifying microcodes! < 1347693952 153783 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: to improve i think that .. ok ok .. uhm uhm.. < 1347693971 502187 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it could plan for changing environment... < 1347693981 790627 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's really one big class of very-similar esolangs. < 1347694006 69089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for sufficiently-large executables they tend to be TC, too. < 1347694020 863425 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347694028 420359 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how exactly < 1347694042 176727 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the bigger issue is not computational completeness but completeness in terms of the system calls you need for successful exploitation < 1347694056 655051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1347694063 700286 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't need very much there, either < 1347694119 888563 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well i think self modification implies somehow that something in the program's context is changing... either the platform, or the input < 1347694136 549938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't itidus21 great? < 1347694136 904131 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the wasted effort is on bad security < 1347694147 248923 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a problem with wasting effort on good security < 1347694164 31349 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :laughs aloud < 1347694174 317457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they used something similar to dump the Nintendo DS BIOS, by finding some data used as code which pushes some things to the stack and can be made to copy the BIOS codes; normally if the instruction pointer is not in the BIOS area it will never read the BIOS so they changed it < 1347694184 928439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Do you consider the things discussed here good or bad security? < 1347694224 82092 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :itidus21: What do you mean, such as, an example? < 1347694224 798105 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, but I don't have a problem with them! < 1347694293 642755 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i think that on an unchanging platform, with unchanging input, all optimization can be done at compile time < 1347694327 934130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes in that case probably you can just make the answer directly < 1347694362 656609 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there is input.. there can be different versions of the program adapted to different inputs < 1347694431 776621 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and you may not know at compile time; is a reason to do self-modifications. I have thought of such things for making some emulator which you can specify the hardware in input file, can modify itself to skip whatever is not used < 1347694444 599105 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta sleep, ttyl all < 1347694470 63621 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, as an example, if you know how long a file is you don't really need to check for end of file < 1347694516 167645 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you know how long a string is, you can read all symbols as data < 1347694544 741185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; but would it be more efficient maybe not necessarily, depending what you are doing. Also possible, if you know the multiple of length, unroll the loops < 1347694807 487068 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble to me with self modifying code is the question of when this self modification happens < 1347694829 524039 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense to keep it modifying nonstop < 1347694865 718604 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then maybe its not really self modifying < 1347695195 384740 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once thought of a storyline or video game idea where the source code is self modifiable, and so, whoever has access to the source has power < 1347696453 715486 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 NICK :Guest46903 < 1347697899 612512 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-155-129.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347698058 328958 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347698346 279875 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1347698357 60227 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347698815 377890 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347698864 200622 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347699424 453759 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PART :#esoteric < 1347699450 173375 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347699476 981502 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1347699526 46763 :epicmonkey_!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347699625 141962 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347699731 952323 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347700552 754959 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347700572 31029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1347700579 369841 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347702953 577983 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good way to combine shell and python in one source file? < 1347702980 97321 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :python < (domonad sequence-m [] '(1 2 3)) < 1347706488 261959 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :((1 2 3)) < 1347706495 536465 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, but that is absolutely fucked up < 1347706508 404360 :MoALTz__!~no@host-92-8-152-106.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347706516 204686 :MoALTz__!~no@host-92-8-152-106.as43234.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347706674 660699 :MoALTz_!~no@host-92-2-115-71.as43234.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347707120 16674 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what does that even mean? < 1347707410 604575 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means that domonad does not in fact emulate do < 1347707426 856060 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a version of do that is only useful in subsets of all situations that do is useful in. < 1347707673 212245 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347707745 126002 :yorick!~yorick@unaffiliated/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1347708282 973834 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What would domonad even be good for < 1347708665 79961 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347708743 839732 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347709274 775085 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347709460 16566 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-152-106.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347709525 331945 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1347709703 766168 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1347709961 624233 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1347710836 899925 :MoALTz!~no@host-92-8-152-106.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: not a good coding day for me, sorry < 1347710869 33805 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :domonad is still usable in those situations, it's just uglier < 1347710945 194688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347710977 745035 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I was ranting about a Clojure library earlier < 1347710979 963964 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed it < 1347710992 449760 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347711349 336049 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to think Clojure developers like the idea of various functional idioms, but don't actually understand them. < 1347711721 475428 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shurely some mistake? < 1347713012 636080 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone have any laptop recommendations? < 1347713059 101675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Tops are usually not worn on laps. < 1347713077 477860 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Har har har. < 1347713338 326383 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1347713347 366884 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347713591 36178 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-41.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1347713735 318346 :lifthras1ir!~lifthrasi@222.122.156.78 NICK :lifthrasiir < 1347716865 609236 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347718235 608851 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1347719658 627603 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn58-51.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1347720512 645867 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: that's dr. turing to you, punk < 1347722778 664538 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1347722813 871508 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347722939 481534 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347724588 169653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1347724723 67506 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:10:10: It means that domonad does not in fact emulate do < 1347724723 237721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:10:26: But a version of do that is only useful in subsets of all situations that do is useful in. < 1347724750 133306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily convert do ...; whatever into do ...; x <- whatever; return x < 1347724808 960867 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact an implicit return is essentially what you get for monad comprehensions < 1347725280 293984 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, shachaf: you can also pass a whole python program to python -c < 1347725474 35325 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347725943 91777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1347725944 517643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Ook!&diff=33796&oldid=32048 < 1347726128 63052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO IT BEGINS < 1347726139 447689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY AM I OUT OF POPCORN < 1347726155 79531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably because i never buy it) < 1347726302 399683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhh what did he just do. < 1347726342 411580 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what has begun? < 1347726398 244610 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it looks like an isolated outbreak. < 1347726458 660649 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347726844 183074 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347727448 470098 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1347729018 121907 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1347729167 317320 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1347729189 177700 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1347730402 360084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome carado < 1347730413 262052 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :carado: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1347730615 135546 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1347730741 53792 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347733122 273769 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347733947 97523 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1347733981 629885 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1347735920 808819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thoughts from the sauna: I've been thinking (and it's been categorized like that) that the Finnish 'd' (which occurs natively only in consonant gradation) is just the voiced version of 't', i.e. voiced dental plosive, but now that I thought of it, the place of articulation is more like alveolar, and according to some Wikipediaing that's actually a real thing. < 1347735925 792611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/d/ is the equivalent of /t/ under weakening consonant gradation, and thus occurs only medially, in the infinitives of the verbs nähdä (to see) and tehdä (to do), or in non-native words; it is actually more of an alveolar tap rather than a true voiced plosive, and the dialectal realization varies widely; see main article." < 1347735942 94170 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Main article is a bit long to quote unless you happen to be surprisingly interested in Finnish phonology.) < 1347736014 129682 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I can't really distinguish too well between t̪/t or d̪/d when I manage to make the non-"natural" ones. < 1347736094 19472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnology < 1347736255 219654 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, why is the "Received Pronunciation" called that? Who/what is it received from? God? Aliens? Xenu? < 1347736258 186665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nth in our popular series of "questions better suited for Wikipedia".) < 1347736342 600124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn received < 1347736342 979654 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "received" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1347736343 113060 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :received < 1347736343 281708 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: conforming to the established language usage of educated < 1347736344 339571 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : native speakers; "standard English" (American); "received < 1347736346 290611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : standard English is sometimes called the King's English" < 1347736348 330643 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[5 @more lines] < 1347736358 576214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@more < 1347736358 745492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : (British) [syn: {standard}, {received}] [ant: < 1347736358 916437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : {nonstandard}] < 1347736358 935205 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2: widely accepted as true or worthy; "a received moral idea"; < 1347736358 935354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Received political wisdom says not; surveys show otherwise"- < 1347736358 935463 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Economist < 1347736523 124389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That pretty much just makes me wonder why "received (adj)" means that. < 1347736682 469101 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's official. No one in the Clojure world actually has a clue about Maybe. < 1347736693 653084 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just re-read the definition that I thought I liked < 1347736706 679454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently just from the "6. (8) receive -- (accept as true or valid; "He received Christ")" kind of sense of receive (verb). < 1347736726 740293 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as if Nothing were defined as "Just Nothingval" < 1347736854 879692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1347736902 702994 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it doesn't help that this person doesn't know Haskell. But I should educate him < 1347736926 514004 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to work out whether this thing is even a monad < 1347737040 456783 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347737061 997299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why are you complaining about Clojure in #haskell? < 1347737067 980597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because no one responded to your bait in here? < 1347737084 341166 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is clojure the java-lisp thing < 1347737084 508636 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1347737088 463285 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1347737088 635159 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen said 20h 17m 23s ago: so your church incrementation excerpt translates to λxyzt.x z (y z t), right? < 1347737091 531048 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq, yes. < 1347737129 547040 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Arc_Koen That looks like Church addition... hmm < 1347737129 716547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347737156 476643 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Arc_Koen Oh, that's because it is < 1347737156 648496 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1347737371 946990 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I submit Fueue to the 2006 essies? < 1347737378 708077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1347737412 117347 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under the category Turing-Equivalent language < 1347737432 557012 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, wait < 1347737437 126070 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the 2004 contest < 1347737528 171606 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I submit it to that? < 1347737596 268102 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1347739365 119090 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.211 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1347739380 212779 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION files a bug report http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/ALGOM-7
< 1347739444 900696 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347740185 777715 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are the Monad Police. < 1347740318 195387 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does clojure even have a type system < 1347740355 665242 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's strongly but dynamically typed < 1347740563 264177 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fuck < 1347740575 961063 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My demonstration doesn't actually count as a demonstration of breaking the monad laws < 1347740639 784472 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll note that no actual type theorists ever talk about "strong" typing < 1347740661 303786 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly mainstream programmers trying to make up bullshit distinctions < 1347740669 148341 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :between strong and static typing < 1347740741 101689 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :strong typing is just too mainstream < 1347740917 771843 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION invents the keyboard where you need to apply 50 lbs-force to press a key
< 1347740920 737684 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada, strong typing. < 1347740958 72635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much force does it actually take to press a key? < 1347740963 740787 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION invents the keyboard that has motorized wheels which move whenever you press a key
< 1347740969 54515 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada, dynamic typing < 1347740995 122489 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonono, the keybindings rearrange themselves whenever you press a key. < 1347741026 687002 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If everyone had that OLED keyboard, that might be useful for some games < 1347741038 926689 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put everyone on a level playing field when it comes to typing speed < 1347741041 769729 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duck typing is when the keyboard's at the bottom of a pond and you have to dive every time you press a key. < 1347741050 434999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : How much force does it actually take to press a key? < 1347741052 210126 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the keyboard < 1347741055 74180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scissor switches take a lot < 1347741125 65402 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Apparently they're normally cited in grams-force. < 1347741130 924597 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupidest unit ever. < 1347741173 716667 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :our keyboard standardisation will break down as soon as we colonise mars! < 1347741209 131515 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't a gram-force a ten-thousandth of a newton? < 1347741238 393238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd've thought it'd be a hundredth of a Newton. < 1347741250 80417 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not great at these unitmobobs < 1347741259 961469 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: No, a gram-force is the force of gravity on an object weighing one gram. < 1347741282 797890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does that account for regional gravitational differences? < 1347741310 351598 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, it's based on a hypothetical ideal earth gravity... < 1347741333 789311 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 10ms^-2? < 1347741363 462596 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems 1 gram-force is 9.807 mN. < 1347741408 32700 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 1 kg-force is 9.807 N. < 1347741426 801001 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earth is insufficiently metric. < 1347741429 218969 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :western-centric!!! < 1347741785 350842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me, is surface gravity higher at the poles or equator < 1347741856 747243 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the poles, i�d say < 1347741894 421976 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is. < 1347741894 761244 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:2e3d:3ef0:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they are closer to the center of the earth than the equator < 1347741929 205290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but like shell theorem and shit < 1347741967 387067 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monad police arrest this man / he talks in maths / he buzzes like a fridge < 1347741987 332101 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone here ever play Typing of the Dead? < 1347743010 469205 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1347743508 898679 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight < 1347743509 614673 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-97-153-31.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1347743798 903430 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347743826 211066 :kinoSi!~kinosi@27-96-32-84.ipq.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1347745335 62287 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they pump hair gel into the water supply in San Francisco? < 1347745341 287989 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :All evidence suggests that they do. < 1347745441 925155 :Guest46903!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347746108 203114 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1347746148 877409 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am actually scared of failing Intro to Drawing < 1347746150 237316 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1347746170 91950 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My hand-eye coordination can best be described as "non-existent" < 1347746173 417534 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each class is painful < 1347746215 988452 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shmertz! < 1347746216 158049 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1347746220 927187 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1347746221 136824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq said 2h 31m 31s ago: That looks like Church addition... hmm < 1347746221 159902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq said 2h 31m 4s ago: Oh, that's because it is < 1347746236 144073 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you atriq < 1347746242 903118 :nooga!~nooga@86-63-101-113.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1347746246 471149 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just watched iron sky < 1347746273 262377 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was very fun, yet not as good as it was supposed to be < 1347746350 54462 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the fact that (partial +) doesn't work is annoying < 1347746534 456478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.seafloorexplorer.org/ is kind of fun < 1347746818 392215 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently the behavior in partial is changing in 1.5 :) < 1347746869 121504 :impomatic!~digital_w@46.208.61.46 PART :#esoteric < 1347746924 9819 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347747062 346190 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1347747104 341441 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1347747334 6055 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a machine consisting of two "registers" (actually variables A and B holding an unbounded non-negative integer), and a finite list of instructions taken from the set {"A++", "B++", "A--", "B--", "A<-0", "B<-0", "A<-B", "B<-A", "if A=0 goto x", "if B=0 goto x", "if A=B goto x", "halt"} < 1347747342 328085 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the set of all those machines have been proven to be turing-complete? < 1347747586 902998 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1347747614 266028 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347747795 766130 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIPE depleted. < 1347748045 495126 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347748292 537675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In #clojure < 1347748293 556208 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : thanks to sgeo, I've learned more about haskell in here than in #haskell ;) < 1347748302 352349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : half-joking :) < 1347748435 298954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in #haskell you talk about clojure stuff and in #clojure you talk about haskell stuff < 1347748443 537530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1347748552 279577 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: we should adjust the mass of the earth until it's exactly 10 < 1347748591 670155 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems reasonable, and I see nothing wrong with the idea. < 1347748696 694243 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly the moon is only about 62% of the mass we'll need < 1347748904 778082 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, i think it's more complicated than that < 1347748930 698826 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What about Venus? < 1347748947 411909 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Mercury. < 1347748957 931317 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-145-146.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mercury works better. < 1347748964 43938 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of a great paper on arXiv (which i can't find :/) which was an engineering feasibility study of some alternatives for surviving the explosion of the sun in a few billion years < 1347748974 987397 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well not exactly "explosion" but you know what i mean) < 1347748985 607645 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, how Earth could survive such an event < 1347749020 565659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1347749034 157550 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink (10/9.81)*5.972e24 < 1347749048 636653 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.0876656472986748214e+24 < 1347749056 812839 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1347749059 95165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :flink frink < 1347749073 248512 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink (0.19/9.81)*5.972e24 < 1347749081 729543 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume installing the JVM on HackEgo would be a royal pain? < 1347749083 403554 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.1566564729867482161e+23 < 1347749136 773890 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 116000Yg < 1347749169 371205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, 116 < 1347749184 307829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... mars < 1347749210 603686 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mercury would fall far short, venus would be overkill < 1347749252 291495 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/frink < 1347749255 131953 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ exec /hackenv/lib/frink -e "$@" \ < 1347749262 886843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /hackenv/lib/frink < 1347749264 304877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn housemates are both having long phone conversations after midnight. < 1347749265 817161 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ELF... < 1347749280 501854 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1347749290 819209 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, for some reason, I thought Frink was a Java thing < 1347749348 70262 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste cat /hackenv/lib/frink < 1347749351 223919 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1521 \ cat: cat /hackenv/lib/frink: No such file or directory < 1347749367 912935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Speaking of which, why is the "Received Pronunciation" called that? Who/what is it received from? God? Aliens? Xenu? < 1347749374 95895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Queen, obviously. < 1347749376 351305 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`paste /hackenv/lib/frink < 1347749379 408819 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.25872 < 1347749592 516861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The word received conveys its original meaning of accepted or approved – as in "received wisdom"." < 1347749624 300430 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1347749843 696609 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1347749853 540486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the joy of datasheets http://i.imgur.com/SaeT1.png < 1347749854 731692 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1347749980 686637 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does frink operate? < 1347749984 147756 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run java < 1347749990 440852 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: java [-options] class [args...] \. (to execute a class) \ or java [-options] -jar jarfile [args...] \. (to execute a jar file) \ where options include: \ -d32. use a 32-bit data model if available \ -d64. use a 64-bit data model if available \ -server. to select the "server" VM \...The default VM is server. \ \. -cp "clojure-1.4.0.zip" [1] < 1347750050 181814 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unzip clojure-1.4.0.zip < 1347750053 627873 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unzip: not found < 1347750057 645196 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`gunzip clojure-1.4.0.zip < 1347750061 593968 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :gzip: clojure-1.4.0.zip: unknown suffix -- ignored < 1347750088 898141 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zip != gzip < 1347750116 527187 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I need to unzip < 1347750122 435809 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no unzip < 1347750305 132867 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have a different program that unzips, such as 7-Zip or whatever else? < 1347750325 41586 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`7zip < 1347750328 509848 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 7zip: not found < 1347750338 39713 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`7z < 1347750341 553985 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: 7z: not found < 1347750393 248103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $PATH < 1347750396 389148 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin < 1347750410 592854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /usr/bin/*zip* < 1347750413 976831 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/gpg-zip < 1347750421 432532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls /bin/*zip* < 1347750425 706643 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/bunzip2 \ /bin/bzip2 \ /bin/bzip2recover \ /bin/gunzip \ /bin/gzip < 1347750440 974360 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bunzip clojure-1.4.0.zip < 1347750444 317740 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bunzip: not found < 1347750448 4877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bunzip2 clojure-1.4.0.zip < 1347750451 110349 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bunzip2: Can't guess original name for clojure-1.4.0.zip -- using clojure-1.4.0.zip.out \ bunzip2: clojure-1.4.0.zip is not a bzip2 file. < 1347750462 212696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1347750526 915935 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does tar have something? < 1347750541 208641 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it tends to have decompression stuff, but can that be used on its own? < 1347750566 773947 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use jar to unzip stuff, or does that not work? < 1347750582 113406 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good question < 1347750585 688759 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`jar < 1347750592 261857 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: jar {ctxui}[vfm0Me] [jar-file] [manifest-file] [entry-point] [-C dir] files ... \ Options: \ -c create new archive \ -t list table of contents for archive \ -x extract named (or all) files from archive \ -u update existing archive \ -v generate verbose output on standard output \ -f specify archive file name \ -m include manifest information from specified manifest file < 1347750621 237043 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`jar -x clojure-1.4.0.zip < 1347750625 399572 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal option: \ Usage: jar {ctxui}[vfm0Me] [jar-file] [manifest-file] [entry-point] [-C dir] files ... \ Options: \ -c create new archive \ -t list table of contents for archive \ -x extract named (or all) files from archive \ -u update existing archive \ -v generate verbose output on standard output \ -f specify archive file name \ -m include manifest information from specified < 1347750640 335016 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`jar x clojure-1.4.0.zip < 1347750644 910024 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal option: \ Usage: jar {ctxui}[vfm0Me] [jar-file] [manifest-file] [entry-point] [-C dir] files ... \ Options: \ -c create new archive \ -t list table of contents for archive \ -x extract named (or all) files from archive \ -u update existing archive \ -v generate verbose output on standard output \ -f specify archive file name \ -m include manifest information from specified < 1347750651 957787 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google can jar open zip files < 1347750652 467975 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ostermiller.org/opening_jar_files.html < 1347750652 637517 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Opening .jar Files < 1347750660 381562 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry >:) < 1347750678 514909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: `run < 1347750688 53952 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run jar -x clojure-1.4.0.zip < 1347750697 394416 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man jar < 1347750699 854636 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1347750701 84256 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1347750704 794328 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename the zip file to .jar < 1347750706 188363 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :manpath < 1347750706 357270 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....? < 1347750711 496993 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :or copy it < 1347750712 894977 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1347750716 746785 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ clojure-1.4.0.zip \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs < 1347750720 844840 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1347750723 977809 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1347750727 248803 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ clojure-1.4.0.zip \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs < 1347750749 669941 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :" In fact, any program that can open zip files can open jar files. The jar format is identical to the zip file format." < 1347750773 60912 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mv clojure-1.4.0.zip clojure-1.4.0.jar < 1347750776 154120 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mv: missing destination file operand after `clojure-1.4.0.zip clojure-1.4.0.jar' \ Try `mv --help' for more information. < 1347750786 711939 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv clojure-1.4.0.zip clojure-1.4.0.jar < 1347750789 969127 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1347750791 496447 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run jar -x clojure-1.4.0.jar < 1347750819 516400 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1347750822 976290 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ clojure-1.4.0.jar \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs < 1347750831 719388 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't No output yet. < 1347750841 738109 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1347750846 20213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither did the first one < 1347750854 350472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1347750854 521114 :itidus21!~itidus21@CPE-120-148-51-163.gdfw1.vic.bigpond.net.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well it was worth a shot < 1347750857 458159 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ clojure-1.4.0.jar \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs < 1347750868 529689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it did < 1347750908 583245 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we can just grap unzip? < 1347750953 349045 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 7zip < 1347750953 518508 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What mapper should be use with this? http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=9312 < 1347751011 368346 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/p7zip/p7zip/9.20.1/p7zip_9.20.1_x86_linux_bin.tar.bz2?r=http%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fprojects%2Fp7zip%2Ffiles%2Fp7zip%2F9.20.1%2F&ts=1347751002&use_mirror=softlayer < 1347751019 377901 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/p7zip/p7zip/9.20.1/p7zip_9.20.1_x86_linux_bin.tar.bz2?r=http%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fprojects%2Fp7zip%2Ffiles%2Fp7zip%2F9.20.1%2F&ts=1347751002&use_mirror=softlayer < 1347751023 622278 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-09-15 23:17:03 URL:http://softlayer.dl.sourceforge.net/project/p7zip/p7zip/9.20.1/p7zip_9.20.1_x86_linux_bin.tar.bz2 [2152153/2152153] -> "p7zip_9.20.1_x86_linux_bin.tar.bz2?r=http:%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fprojects%2Fp7zip%2Ffiles%2Fp7zip%2F9.20.1%2F&ts=1347751002&use_mirror=softlayer" [1] < 1347751028 159760 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1347751051 963924 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame sourceforge < 1347751079 314713 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv "p7zip_9.20.1_x86_linux_bin.tar.bz2?r=http:%2F%2Fsourceforge.net%2Fprojects%2Fp7zip%2Ffiles%2Fp7zip%2F9.20.1%2F&ts=1347751002&use_mirror=softlayer" p7zip.tar.bz2 < 1347751082 622444 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1347751129 646899 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tar -xjf p7zip.tar.bz2 < 1347751134 238453 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1347751141 819069 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls p7zip < 1347751145 506008 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access p7zip: No such file or directory < 1347751148 812296 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1347751152 816959 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ canary \ clojure-1.4.0.jar \ foo \ karma \ lib \ p7zip.tar.bz2 \ p7zip_9.20.1 \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs < 1347751190 454186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this < 1347751190 658282 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run p7zip_9.20.1/bin/7z < 1347751193 838890 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: p7zip_9.20.1/bin/7z: cannot execute binary file < 1347751206 482792 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A failing attempt to extract a .zip file < 1347751250 742019 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run file p7zip_9.20.1/bin/7z < 1347751254 211670 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :p7zip_9.20.1/bin/7z: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.0.30, stripped < 1347751548 390643 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :halp < 1347751612 127525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:34: so, a machine consisting of two "registers" (actually variables A and B holding an unbounded non-negative integer), and a finite list of instructions taken from the set {"A++", "B++", "A--", "B--", "A<-0", "B<-0", "A<-B", "B<-A", "if A=0 goto x", "if B=0 goto x", "if A=B goto x", "halt"} < 1347751617 340337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:42: the set of all those machines have been proven to be turing-complete? < 1347751634 432440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like an equivalent formulation of a 2-register minsky machine, so yes < 1347751638 496999 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup I'm writing a TC proof for Maze under that assumption < 1347751676 390770 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need "if A=B goto x", or any assignments < 1347751690 450027 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses two cars, one for each register; all instructions are very easy to translate, except for the if .. goto which need to solve a wire-crossing problem < 1347751697 67224 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347751710 663604 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can just get rid of the if and not bother with the wire crossing? < 1347751715 296259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :only increment/decrement and branch < 1347751732 545725 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was gonna set up a system with a third car holding a value to indicate which direction the car was going
< 1347751735 780090 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm you definitely need the =0 ifs < 1347751743 555485 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1347751756 259171 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only get rid of the if A=B goto x then? < 1347751767 464031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the <- ones < 1347751788 465128 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even A<-B and B<-A ? < 1347751793 685161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially those < 1347751797 368008 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1347751805 633837 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :waow, it's very easy to be turing complete < 1347751810 575603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is. < 1347751828 619603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to initialize A and B at the start, of course < 1347751902 844864 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'm assuming the car is holding 0 at the beginning < 1347751913 872404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also try 3-cell brainfuck, which has less wirecrossing i believe :) < 1347751915 987426 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are a lot of things which are not really precise in Maze specifications < 1347751944 537064 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance for the truth-machine I was gonna write the loop as a 2x2 square < 1347751963 775227 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought maybe it was safer to write it as a 3x3 square with a wall in the central cell < 1347751992 867714 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 3-cell brainfuck has while loops < 1347752003 579431 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooh < 1347752011 23511 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, they cannot be crossed < 1347752011 873007 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1347752036 495435 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm gonna use that then < 1347752048 945300 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :urhh, I have to write everything again with three cars, in that case < 1347752103 694549 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm but then I need a way to decide which car is the "current" car < 1347752191 704387 :kwertii!~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii JOIN :#esoteric < 1347752212 256530 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1347752270 404424 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the 3-cell brainfuck tc-proof only uses balanced loops, so it's always known at a program position which cell is the current one < 1347752284 971300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't _have_ to implement dynamic <> < 1347752298 610289 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think it can be quite easy to implement < 1347752333 818263 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that'd give an explicit proof < 1347752341 55385 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever is the correct english word for that < 1347752365 800581 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, a proof that not only proves it's possible, but gives an explicit way to do it) < 1347752381 644440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :construction? < 1347752488 492774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you could do general gotos if you had a car keep the current statement number as its value, and used a giant tree of IF THEN ELSEs < 1347752533 279883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would then be possible to keep the maze part fixed and have all the program data in the functions < 1347752544 85331 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea was to actually allow to cross wires, with the crossing being ruled by a third car, which value indicate in which wire the car is going < 1347752553 699488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1347752563 746479 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that may be overcomplciated) < 1347752577 969213 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean by the giant tree of if then elses though < 1347752612 621869 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: e.g. "python -c '" followed by the whole thing and then a ' on a line of its own? < 1347752624 522971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF ** THEN IF ==1 THEN =5 ELSE IF ==2 THEN =1 ELSE ... ELSE IF ==1 THEN ... < 1347752631 250404 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that'll cause difficulty with single-quoted strings in the python code < 1347752645 872621 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, should I take my attempts to get Clojure working into an msg with HackEgo? < 1347752650 380566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a single function which does all the branching line number calculation < 1347752666 774868 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Clojure? < 1347752707 772468 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, a functional Lisp on the JVM < 1347752716 810391 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other functions which guide the line number car to the right **'s to tell the other cars what the actual instruction is < 1347752739 96525 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fwiw, I ended up replacing my shell needs with os.popen ... if anyone needs to use my program on pathes with spaces or other special characters in them, they'll simply be screwed) < 1347752754 721319 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use os.popen, use subprocess module < 1347752763 370623 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting the control flow in the maze is nicely visual, though :) < 1347752773 790509 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'm following < 1347752773 961346 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can pass a list of args rather than a single string to be interpreted by the shell < 1347752777 437185 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :subprocess.OHMYGODALLTHECHARACTERSIMWASTING < 1347752790 15898 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :os.popen is shorter :) < 1347752796 725851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: you have a car whose value is the current program line number < 1347752804 855799 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great justification for choosing one piece of software over another < 1347752817 906340 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in python you can just do "import subprocess; p = subprocess" < 1347752824 108242 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or of course "from subprocess import foo, bar" < 1347752825 339039 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole python stdlib is filled with "oh, btw we did it all wrong, now use " < 1347752829 878983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1347752830 219970 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so it's always known at a program position which cell is the current one" you mean I really don't need to implement > and <, but only +-., applied to each of the three cells? < 1347752835 505414 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is true of most languages as well < 1347752838 469565 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: yep < 1347752859 643021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: well the proof doesn't actually use ., since it does just computation < 1347752867 352096 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clojure is still in the stage of learning what they did wrong < 1347752878 17260 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1347752880 971875 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose python users should be happy that the python maintainers admit they did it all wrong, and should also be happy that various future versions have fixes for some of the bugs < 1347752899 837755 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i never got a good way of getting arbitrary length output out it < 1347752900 357190 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to php where it's derples all the way :) < 1347752913 595995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*out of it < 1347752928 452451 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have a line-number car, and what does it do in case of a goto? < 1347752973 852159 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh awesome < 1347752987 59963 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, now I'm starting of implementing "come from" instead of "go to" < 1347752996 269659 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/starting/thinking < 1347753021 742726 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found just the jar on Maven < 1347753050 970198 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no that didn't make sense < 1347753053 560913 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`fetch http://search.maven.org/remotecontent?filepath=org/clojure/clojure/1.4.0/clojure-1.4.0.jar < 1347753061 24747 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-09-15 23:51:00 URL:http://search.maven.org/remotecontent?filepath=org/clojure/clojure/1.4.0/clojure-1.4.0.jar [3421683/3421683] -> "remotecontent?filepath=org%2Fclojure%2Fclojure%2F1.4.0%2Fclojure-1.4.0.jar" [1] < 1347753070 676374 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1347753084 399354 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv "remotecontent?filepath=org%2Fclojure%2Fclojure%2F1.4.0%2Fclojure-1.4.0.jar" clojure-1.4.0.jar < 1347753086 851126 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1347753141 822517 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of the funnier examples is options parsing, where it seems every major python release has come with a new incompatible library for options parsing, deprecating whatever was there before < 1347753209 170423 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : so I have a line-number car, and what does it do in case of a goto? <-- it runs a function which calculates the new line number. hm i guess you might need some cleverness since you need to test different registers in different statements < 1347753225 203592 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run java -cp clojure-1.4.0.jar clojure.main -e "(+ 1 1)" < 1347753237 376163 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1347753240 341805 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1347753257 692488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that if you use gotos you only need 2 registers, as previously stated < 1347753342 179891 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh this is easier to type < 1347753342 921734 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run java -jar clojure-1.4.0.jar -e "(+ 1 1)" < 1347753354 128020 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1347753417 978638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i distinctly remember sgeo going on about clojure sucking some months back < 1347753421 97479 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened < 1347753442 958373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there need to be signals the line number car can go to for signaling A++, A--, B++ and B--. and functions to decide based on line number to decide whether it hits each of them < 1347753445 473747 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :he might still be going < 1347753462 229658 :nooga_!~nooga@77-45-54-224.sta.asta-net.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1347753469 72381 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't remember. It's at least partially possible that some of the ranting was about the JVM, and I decided just to hold my nose < 1347753489 136953 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there are signals for the A and B cars to go to for signalling whether or not they are 0, at different times, at which the line number car does branching calculations. < 1347753593 759618 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you remember what any of the ranting was about, specifically?