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04:09:03 <zzo38> Finally I figured out how to beat the assassin in the Dungeons&Dragons game! I asked the referee what is phase of moon in the game; he asked me to select the phase of the moon instead, so I said it is a new moon and he accepted that.
04:10:36 <shachaf> You should've selected blue moon.
04:10:49 <shachaf> http://gallery.guetech.org/zork0/calendar11.jpg
04:10:55 <kmc> http://chainsawsuit.com/2012/08/07/cool-moon/
04:10:56 <zzo38> Is that a phase of the moon? I do not think it is valid.
04:10:57 <shachaf> http://gallery.guetech.org/zork0/calendar10.jpg
04:11:03 <zzo38> I have seen the Zork calendar already
04:11:10 <shachaf> http://gallery.guetech.org/zork0/calendar13.jpg
04:11:21 <shachaf> zzo38: An actual original copy from the game?
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04:17:18 <zzo38> shachaf: No, it is a picture I found on computer.
04:17:58 <shachaf> zzo38: Oh. I found a picture on computer too.
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05:26:27 <zzo38> In this basketball game on X-BIT, I managed to win 89 to 49 yesterday.
05:26:36 <zzo38> Usually it is not by that many points.
05:29:33 <zzo38> My team (Canada) plays at Raleigh tonight. Let's see... They have a better F than I do but I have a better C. (However, their best F is not in their starting lineup.)
05:31:35 <shachaf> 89 to 49? That's a lot of tos.
05:33:56 <zzo38> I have enough G but not enough F and C. I have only one PF, but I think F is also usable as PF and SF, and G is usable as PG and SG, but I think C can only use C, and in addition there are less C available to purchase, so this makes difficuly.
05:34:23 <shachaf> zzo38: You should acquire some R.
05:34:35 <zzo38> R? I don't think this game has those.
05:35:12 <zzo38> I think the team players are only classified as: G, PG, SG, F, PF, SF, and C.
05:48:23 <kmc> all of canada has one basketball team?
05:49:22 <shachaf> zzo38: Maybe some N, then?
05:49:45 <zzo38> kmc: I am sure that it is not the case. However, this is just a computer game.
05:49:57 <zzo38> shachaf: There is no N either, as far as I can see.
05:51:16 <shachaf> What about: E, TC, OP, O, Σ, ꙮ, VV, K, T, SF, JN, P, L, and U?
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06:31:20 * Sgeo is attempting to understand WTF an application server is
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08:57:31 <lambdabot> The operator `Control.Arrow.&&&' [infixr 3] of a section
08:57:32 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
08:57:46 <lambdabot> elliott asked 9h 38m 27s ago: that is literally the least motivating promise ever made. but i will look into it tonight
09:01:13 <fizzie> Those people and their misuse of @ask vs. @tell.
09:04:01 <oerjan> i think it's an inside joke.
09:05:18 <fizzie> Oh? In that case, ha ha, I laugh.
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09:09:12 <lambdabot> The operator `Data.Function.on' [infixl 0] of a section
09:14:42 <oerjan> itidus21: um it did just as expected...
09:15:18 <oerjan> i'm triggering that error message on purpose to see the [infixl 0] information
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09:15:58 <itidus21> "Brace yourselves gentlemen. According to the gas chromatograph, the secret ingredient is... Love!? Who's been screwing with this thing?"
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09:16:34 <oerjan> the bad thing about love is that it's so secret we cannot find it
09:18:04 <itidus21> its a quote from the simpsons when trying to determine an ingredient in some alcoholic cocktail
09:26:09 * Sgeo vaguely remembers actually seeing that episode.
09:27:30 <shachaf> fizzie: I only do it with a select few who can "appreciate" it.
09:29:42 <itidus21> Sgeo: the drink was called a flaming moe
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10:51:11 * oerjan learns there is a star named Zubenelgenubi
10:51:52 <fizzie> Sounds vaguely Lovecraftian.
10:51:52 <lambdabot> fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
10:52:18 <oerjan> apparently it means "the southern claw"
10:54:44 <fizzie> "Alpha Librae -- has the traditional name Zubenelgenubi" -- hey, Alpha Librae exists in Star Control 2.
10:55:00 <nortti> oerjan: in what language?
10:55:03 <fizzie> Beta Librae is the Supox homeworld, that's probably where I remember it from.
10:55:11 <oerjan> nortti: mangled arabic
10:55:11 <fizzie> nortti: "The name, from Arabic الزبن الجنوبي (al-zuban al-janūbiyy), means "southern claw" --"
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10:59:17 <fizzie> "The two brightest components of Alpha Librae form a double star -- The brightest member, α2 Librae, is itself a spectroscopic binary system. The second member, α1 Librae -- too is a spectroscopic binary -- The system may have a fifth component, the star KU Librae -- thus forming a hierarchical quintuple star system."
10:59:23 <fizzie> Sounds quite complicated.
10:59:46 <fizzie> All this for a dot on the night sky. Such wate.
11:10:17 <itidus21> One small step for man, one giant heap for mankind. ^leap
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11:13:56 <itidus21> i didnt really know the actual version had a typo.. but i think have heard so before
11:14:42 <fizzie> I'm not sure it's called a "typo" when it's done by a person speaking.
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11:15:06 <itidus21> well in this new age it won't be long before it is
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11:32:23 <oerjan> > (`mod` 7) <$> [1055-1020, 211-176]
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11:40:48 <itidus21> using this information i was able to save the city once again
11:48:00 <fizzie> There was someone at ##c the other day confused why float a = 3.141593; if (a < 3.141593) puts("low"); was always printing 'low'. (Example slightly simplified.)
11:48:28 <fizzie> Floating points sure are nasty.
11:50:50 <itidus21> i suspect i did something wrong here
11:51:22 <fizzie> I have no clue what those numbers are for, but the result sure seems reasonable.
12:02:44 <oerjan> > (`mod` 7) <$> [1055-849, 211-30]
12:03:14 <oerjan> > (`mod` 7) <$> [849-849, 128-30]
12:03:47 <fizzie> Lambdabot must have that same floating-point bug xkcd mentions.
12:06:13 <itidus21> > chr . read <$> words "84 72 88 42 11 14"
12:20:46 <itidus21> > let 2x2 = 2*2 in 2600 x 42 / 52 / 50
12:20:47 <lambdabot> <no location info>: Parse error in pattern
12:21:03 <oerjan> > (`mod` 7) <$> [869-850, 49-128]
12:21:19 <fizzie> I don't think "x" works as an operator, syntax-wise.
12:21:47 <itidus21> > chr . read <$> words "52 50"
12:22:19 <fizzie> Must be one of those "things" that bot has.
12:22:52 <itidus21> the bots things are just common sense
12:24:40 <itidus21> so.. '4' * '2' * 42 = 2600... thats kind of cool
12:27:25 <fizzie> '4' * '2' = 2600, though. I don't know how cool that is.
12:27:30 <fizzie> > product $ ord <$> "42"
12:29:19 <itidus21> what i would be interested in is a case where the text of a number is the same as the string of the number
12:29:34 <itidus21> by something like the product or the sum
12:31:23 <Deewiant> > filter (\n -> n == sum (map ord (show n))) [0..]
12:31:36 <fizzie> Also 151, 152, ..., 159 for obvious reasons.
12:31:37 <Deewiant> > take 10 $ filter (\n -> n == sum (map ord (show n))) [0..]
12:31:38 <lambdabot> [150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159]
12:32:10 <Deewiant> > filter (\n -> n == sum (map ord (show n))) [0..10^6]
12:32:14 <lambdabot> [150,151,152,153,154,155,156,157,158,159]
12:32:16 <Deewiant> > filter (\n -> n == product (map ord (show n))) [0..10^6]
12:32:22 <itidus21> take 12 $ filter (\n -> n == sum (map ord (show n))) [0..]
12:32:30 <itidus21> > take 12 $ filter (\n -> n == sum (map ord (show n))) [0..]
12:32:34 <fizzie> Apparently that's all, folks.
12:33:12 <itidus21> > take 10 $ filter (\n -> n == product (map ord (show n))) [0..]
12:33:20 <fizzie> Given that the individual values are ~50, the product grows too quickly, while the sum of course grows too slowly.
12:37:08 <fizzie> > flip showHex "" <$> filter (\n -> n == sum (map ord (showHex n ""))) [0..10^5]
12:38:25 <fizzie> > flip showHex "" <$> filter (\n -> n == sum (map (ord . toUpper) (showHex n ""))) [0..10^5]
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12:38:42 <fizzie> Aw. Though I suppose one could argue the "0x" prefix could also be counted in that.
12:39:13 <itidus21> > flip showHex "" <$> filter (\n -> n == product (map ord (showHex n ""))) [0..]
12:41:13 <fizzie> That was some kind of unrelated breakage, I'd say.
13:02:05 <oerjan> bah there's a bug in the jolverine loop
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13:23:14 <HackEgo> Arc_Koen: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
13:24:28 <lambdabot> forall a b (f :: * -> *). (Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
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13:59:19 <kmc> > let (×) = (*) in 2600 × 42 / 52 / 50
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14:00:52 <fizzie> Well, if you go all *fancy* with your x's.
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14:27:38 <kmc> http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/62959000/jpg/_62959824_hacked.jpg
14:36:38 <copumpkin> whoa, I'm not sure my CPU would be able to decode binary with that in it
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14:39:48 <itidus21> HACKED is embedded in the bitstream in bitmap space, perhaps
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14:45:54 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing.
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15:12:37 <kmc> as far as collision resistance goes, how much worse is "first half of sha256 hash" compared to "both halves of sha256 hash xored together"?
15:13:43 <kmc> i think it shouldn't matter for an ideal hash, but might make life easier for an attacker exploiting some cryptographic weakness of sha256
15:14:01 <copumpkin> well, I don't think we have any knowledge of sha256 being any worse than ideal
15:14:13 <kmc> maybe you don't *puts on NSA sunglasses*
15:14:27 <kmc> so how's it going copumpkin
15:14:35 <copumpkin> xoring them together might be very slightly more future-proof in case someone finds some bug in the first or second half :P
15:14:58 <copumpkin> you missed out on a great talk by edwardk yesterday
15:15:35 <kmc> i should pay more attention to these things
15:16:13 <kmc> (not actually true)
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15:33:27 <shachaf> kmc: What are you doing with the first half of sha256? Human-readable identifiers?
15:34:03 <kmc> long and boring story
15:34:04 <fizzie> Truncation at least is a thing that I've seen done somewhere for SHA-256. (And SHA-224 of course is a truncated SHA-256.)
15:34:55 <kmc> speaking of which, how about a protocol which converts a large number of arbitrary bits into a human readable story
15:35:11 * shachaf wonders whether there's anything more to be confident about with some function that takes an explicit output length, like PBKDF2, than just truncating/xoring a hash.
15:35:26 <shachaf> kmc: Human-memorizable, in particular?
15:35:27 <kmc> and a standard for parsing this which is insensitive to whitespace, punctuation, and unimportant words
15:35:35 <kmc> so that you can memorize, say, an entire RSA private key
15:36:06 <kmc> this is an extension of the "four random words" approach to passwords
15:36:14 <shachaf> I've talked about that a couple of times before in other channels.
15:36:38 <kmc> what did you conclude
15:37:21 <shachaf> I think someone in another channel had a thing where he split his password into a few bits and then found words in /usr/share/dict/words whose md5sums ended with those bits, or some scheme like that.
15:38:03 <shachaf> I concluded that 2048 is an awful lot of bits. :-(
15:38:43 <shachaf> You would probably want some error-correcting codes or something too.
15:38:54 <kmc> fuck yeah, error correcting codes
15:39:43 <shachaf> On the other hand people manage to memorize some pretty large texts, so it's probably feasible.
15:40:01 <fizzie> [Insert world record of pi memorization result here.]
15:40:24 <kmc> i think you could probably write a paper on this
15:40:37 <kmc> well, i'm not so interested in world record capabilities ;)
15:40:40 <shachaf> There are approaches to memorizing numbers like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system which have a fair amount of redundancy and let you make up your own sentences.
15:40:52 <AnotherTest> shachaf: text (sentences) is easier to memorize I would say than pseudo-random bytes
15:41:00 <shachaf> (But don't work that well in certain edge cases.)
15:41:23 <shachaf> AnotherTest: Yes, but it doesn't have nearly as many bits per character.
15:41:31 <AnotherTest> "For most people it would be easier to remember 3.1415927 (the number known as pi) as:"
15:41:42 <kmc> my (unjustified) assumption is that the structure of a story makes it easier to remember stuff, even though it adds to the length of the text you're memorizing
15:41:49 <shachaf> AnotherTest: That's not the number known as pi. Are you some kind of physicist?
15:42:00 <kmc> especially if it's done in such a way that you don't have to remember the connective bits of the story correctly
15:42:07 <shachaf> I wonder whether rhymes would help or hurt.
15:42:23 <kmc> you get fewer bits though
15:42:32 <shachaf> Right, that's the "hurt" part.
15:42:43 <kmc> we should invent a protocol which converts binary blobs into a sequence of dirty limericks
15:42:49 <shachaf> I wonder what the entropy of rhyming text is.
15:42:52 <AnotherTest> shachaf: that was a wikipedia quote by the way
15:43:04 <shachaf> I,I http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complexity_of_Songs
15:44:50 <shachaf> If you're trying to memorize 2048 bits you're probably going to get some pretty bad edge cases for whatever scheme you use...
15:48:41 <shachaf> I should come up with a scheme for this and memorize my private keys!
15:48:47 <shachaf> That way the NSA has more to torture out of me.
15:49:59 <AnotherTest> I heard of this technique where you had to visualize numbers and put them in a "story"
15:51:12 <AnotherTest> M. Tullius Cicero also did this(historians claim)
15:51:12 <shachaf> kmc: http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/ST/hash/documents/Kelsey_Truncation.pdf
15:57:41 <shachaf> kmc: http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/drafts/800-107/Draft_Revised_SP800-107.pdf
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17:20:29 <kmc> so one simple approach is to pick a set of "interesting" words and extract the information from the unique "interesting" words in order of first appearance
17:21:26 <kmc> i don't know how big is reasonable for a list of interesting words that aren't too similar, i.e. excluding plurals and such
17:21:31 <kmc> let's say 14 bits
17:22:19 <kmc> then to encode a 2048 bit key, you need a story with about 150 unique interesting words
17:23:52 <atriq> Am I famous enough to have a page for myself on the wiki?
17:24:38 <atriq> I don't think I am
17:25:23 <kmc> but instead you could use the choice of unique words together with the pattern in which they are repeated
17:25:38 <kmc> yeah, i.e. a dictionary of 16,384 interesting words
17:26:43 <kmc> for english anyway
17:26:46 <kmc> english has a ton of words
17:26:49 <shachaf> This requires you to always have access to the wordlist, which I guess isn't so bad.
17:27:19 <kmc> yeah, i am not trying to design a scheme that anyone can implement from memory
17:27:23 <kmc> perhaps that would be more valuable though
17:27:49 <shachaf> Probably valuable enough to come up with one standardized scheme and get it everywhere.
17:30:41 <shachaf> There's serious diminishing returns to having a larger word file.
17:30:59 <shachaf> 13/12 bits would mean that you'd need 160/170 words instead of 150.
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18:35:23 <kmc> ÄÅäåÖö-_`^
18:40:24 <shachaf> kmc: You should figure out and implement that memorization thing so I can use it!
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20:49:34 <Sgeo> I should try to get emacs and nrepl.el working nicely on my system
20:50:19 <Sgeo> Or maybe ritz?
20:58:11 <olsner> oerjan: ho hum vår sång är dum?
21:01:03 <olsner> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSgngZ9CpTM
21:02:09 <olsner> seems to be "hei hå" or something in norwegian
21:04:13 <oerjan> sorry, it's late in the evening and i won't disturb the silence...
21:05:01 <olsner> you should enable on-demand plugins
21:05:19 <olsner> oh, but you're not using Opera, maybe your browser doesn't have that
21:06:17 * oerjan has no idea what you're talking about
21:06:57 <olsner> it's a thing where plugins never start playing (or even downloading) until you allow it
21:07:25 <nortti> olsner: is it like konquerors load plugins only when specified?
21:07:42 <olsner> nortti: sounds similar, but I've never used konquerors
21:07:47 <oerjan> ...how is that relevant? my speakers are off by default, anyway
21:08:35 <nortti> olsner: you should try. it isn't best on the stadards front but it is fast and powerful and you can integrate almost anything into it
21:08:36 <olsner> ok, sounded like you couldn't safely follow the link
21:09:14 <oerjan> i assume that's a link to a song, so it would be pointless to follow it when i'm not going to put on sound
21:09:53 <olsner> even without sound you can tell what song it was from either of the name or the video
21:10:33 <olsner> not important, I just linked to that because I used youtube to figure out what the proper name was and to confirm it was the song I was thinking about
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21:36:54 <zzo38> Yesterday at FreeGeek I had some .NSF musics to play, they said try Rhythmbox, so I tried and yes it can play .NSF musics, although the expansions may not work perfectly.
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22:29:56 <jaboja> Does anybody ever tried to create an esoteric charset?
22:30:55 <shachaf> Every charset is esoteric.
22:31:24 <olsner> if you're unsatisfied with the common ones, there's also EBCDIC
22:32:22 <olsner> "solved problem, move along" :P
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22:54:32 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: Who totally are?
22:55:10 <shachaf> \, is a terrible character.
22:55:15 <shachaf> ~? and `. are also terrible.
22:55:18 <shachaf> I mean, they're double-width!
23:01:12 <olsner> erranter falso perperam
23:02:56 <jaboja> EBCDIC is interesting... Internet Explorer understands it, but Firefoks and Chrome don't.
23:04:50 <olsner> I'm surprised IE supports it, is it even possible to write HTML in ebcdic?
23:06:11 <olsner> hmm... I suppose if the http headers specify the charset, it's no problem to decode the ebcdic before sending it on to the HTML stuff
23:06:24 <Sgeo> I accidentally flooded #clojure
23:06:34 <Sgeo> Turns out the bot will gladly loop forever printing stuff
23:07:40 <Sgeo> Well, not "forever"
23:08:08 <olsner> only until it gets kicked?
23:08:32 <Sgeo> It was doing the side-effects to realize the first 32 elements
23:08:44 <Sgeo> Since I mapped a side-effecting function onto an infinite lazy seq
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23:09:03 <olsner> I hope you derided them for having side-effects in their language
23:09:19 <olsner> "this wouldn't have happened in Haskell!"
23:11:36 <jaboja> http://jagiello.vot.pl/ebcdic.php
23:12:51 <jaboja> PHP used to send correct charset via HTTP (setting it only via meta tag does not force IE to parse it as EBCDIC)
23:13:02 <olsner> aww, opera doesn't have ebcdic
23:13:32 <Gregor> I suspect that as many as two people in this channel intentionally use IE, and maybe about seven total have it available.
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23:18:38 <zzo38> EBCDIC is not very good. ASCII is better. However, different thing, other character sets might works better. Also, if I designed ASCII the order would differ a bit, such as having 'A' after '9' so that you can write hexadecimal numbers.
23:21:23 <zzo38> I plan to make the FCHDL (Famicom Hardware Description Language) which is a Haskell library which can compile a Famicom mapper code in DotFami .cart format.
23:24:47 <oerjan> <NihilistDandy> I'd probably go with falso <-- but that would be less meta
23:25:25 <zzo38> What would you do if it was your job to design the 7-bit ASCII code including orders?
23:26:13 <zzo38> Do you not like to make up the ASCII?
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23:57:22 <zzo38> How can you detect open bus in software? I want to be able to design a computer and have it detect whether or not anything is connected to the external memory port, if you push START (or use auto-start mode) to check the optical disc, external memory, etc to see if there is any program to load. But there is another possibility: The external memory does not necessarily have to be an executable program