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01:11:14 <Sgeo> I need a good night's slep
01:12:58 <Sgeo> Keccak is not appropriate for password hashing, right?
01:13:07 <Sgeo> It's fast, and good password hashing is slow?
01:13:27 <kmc> you should run your passwords through something like PBKDF2
01:13:36 <shachaf> Presumably PBKDF2-SHA3 is fine.
01:13:40 <kmc> which is a fancy way of saying "iterate the hash many times"
01:13:56 <kmc> (and probably do other things, but I don't know if those are important for uses other than deriving crypto keys)
01:13:59 <shachaf> kmc: PBKDF2 also xors the iterations together, at least.
01:14:05 <kmc> Sgeo: yes, PBKDF2
01:14:40 <kmc> you can read about PBKDF2 in a multimedia hypertext encyclopedia using a global network of packet-switched communications
01:20:22 <Sgeo> o.O someone submitted a hash algorithm to the contest maliciously?
01:21:16 <shachaf> Otherwise how can you tell if the process is doing its job?
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01:21:56 <Sgeo> Oh, someone just modified one of the entries to be malicious, as a proof of concept I guess
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01:30:27 <Jafet> > length "E581A6F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E3EBF2" `div` 2
01:41:20 <kmc> that's funny
01:47:38 <kmc> also funny: one of the SHA-3 competitors has already seen widespread real world use
01:47:48 <kmc> MD6 was used by the Conficker worm
01:47:58 <kmc> if you enter one of those competitions do you get mysterious advice from the NSA, a la DES?
01:48:02 <oerjan> oh john tromp also won the ioccc
01:49:34 <oerjan> that's weird i thought he was on the esolang wiki somewhere, but no
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02:35:55 <pikhq_> Gah, screwed up my *printing* routine. XD
02:36:19 <pikhq_> E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2
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02:37:52 -!- pikhq_ has set topic: I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki.
02:40:28 <Jafet> > length "E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2" `div` 2
02:43:51 <shachaf> > showIntAtBase 2 ("01"!!) (28*8) ""
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04:13:37 <hagb4rd> this is such a pretty place to be, i've just stumbled upon it..lovely 8bit canvas demo -> http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/
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05:39:17 <kmc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWToUATLGzs
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07:40:10 <barts> i am working on a piece of hardware which can take any wave and output an analog sync clock
07:40:18 <barts> well, sine-like wave
07:40:24 <barts> that reminds me i wanted to try a metronome
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07:50:18 <barts> oh the video just loaded
07:50:33 <barts> the metronomes become synchronized because of a phenomenon called soft syncing
07:51:26 <barts> it happens because they are all coupled in angular momentum
07:52:23 <barts> in fact the whole swivel is a single energy pool which tries to maximize its use of that energy
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12:29:43 <ion> “House of Marley Positive Vibration Rasta”, “color: rasta” http://www.thomann.de/fi/house_of_marley_positive_vibration_rasta.htm
12:36:32 <fizzie> ion: According to fcolor, #a37f58 is the color of "rasta" after 10 images (190 to go).
12:37:34 <fizzie> (Some of these results are a bit nonrelevant-looking.)
12:38:32 <fizzie> http://users.ics.aalto.fi/htkallas/rasta.png and so it goes.
12:39:08 <fizzie> I conclude that it mostly means something vaguely brownish.
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13:20:18 <ion> http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html
13:22:00 <fizzie> "This page has been glanced at by [Counter datafile "/usr/local/etc/Counter/data/sample3.dat" must be created first!] visitors external to our department"
13:22:53 <fizzie> Page view counters, where have they all gone?
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13:37:19 <Arc_Koen> oh hey quintopia maybe you can help me
13:38:13 <Arc_Koen> I'm trying to understnad the hello world program in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Platts
13:39:01 <Arc_Koen> 1) what are the two zeroes in the initial string for?
13:39:48 <Arc_Koen> 2) when B produces Hello World!, the output mode is off, so why is it printed?
13:40:24 <Arc_Koen> or are every ever produced strings printed everytime that a string is produce while the output mode is on?
13:41:28 <Arc_Koen> so if the production rules were A> B|Hello World! H>J J|K K! for instance, the Hello World would be printed twice?
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13:43:45 <fizzie> For 2), isn't output mode off at first, and toggled on by the "A>" production, leaving it on for "B|Hello World!"?
13:46:01 <fizzie> A0B0 -[toggle output mode on]-> 0B0 -[implicit empty string]> B0 -[output "Hello World!"]-> Hello World! -[toggle output mode off]-> Kello World! -[halt], I guess.
13:46:26 <fizzie> Whoops, without forgetting the latter 0.
13:46:43 <fizzie> Unless they mean something else, I'unno.
13:49:04 <fizzie> Or, hm, right; if it's a 2-tag system, those 0s get deleted too.
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13:51:52 <fizzie> A0B0 -[toggle output mode on]-> B0 -[output "Hello World!"]-> Hello World! -[toggle output mode off]-> llo World!K -[implicit empty-string rules]-> K -[halt], in that case.
13:52:00 <fizzie> (I read it as just rewriting at first.)
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14:05:27 <Arc_Koen> nah, I don't think it's string-rewriting
14:05:44 <Arc_Koen> I think A produces empty string and toggle output mode on
14:06:02 <Arc_Koen> B produces Hello World!, which is printed
14:06:20 <Arc_Koen> oh hum and then I don't know if it's 0's turn or H's turn
14:06:34 <fizzie> Arc_Koen: It's a 2-tag system, it says so right up there.
14:06:41 <Arc_Koen> Any symbols not explicitly assigned production rules in the program listing are implicitly assigned a production of the empty string.
14:07:08 <fizzie> See http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tag_system -- they always delete m (in this case, 2) symbols from the left, and append the production to the right.
14:08:13 <fizzie> I didn't notice at first, since I just went "oh, production rules".
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14:41:57 <quintopia> fizzie's second production sequence is correct
14:42:27 <Arc_Koen> yep apparently the issue was just that I didn't know what a tag was
14:42:43 -!- kmc has set topic: I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | God made the natural numbers; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ |.
14:42:47 -!- kmc has set topic: I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | God made the natural numbers; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki.
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16:43:10 <ion> Rats (1984) - Trailer http://youtu.be/2zbl4_xkORc
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17:51:31 <FreeFull> ghci thinks 25*0.036 is 0.8999999999999999
17:52:09 <ion> :: Rational
17:52:29 <fizzie> Floating-point numbers are the devil.
17:53:02 <ion> Nothing wrong with floating-point numbers (except for denormals and NaN) as long as you use them appropriately.
17:53:05 <shachaf> zomg irb thinks the same thing.
17:53:21 <shachaf> ion: *Ahem*. Floating point *values*.
17:53:49 <itidus21> on windows calculator, 0.8999999999999999 / 0.36 = 2.4999999999999997222222222222222
17:54:07 <FreeFull> I blame haskell for using an inexact default representation of fractional values
17:54:13 <ion> > (25*0.036 :: CReal, 25*0.036 :: Rational)
17:54:43 <fizzie> `runc int main(void) { printf("%.20f", 25*0.036); }
17:54:45 <ion> freefull: What should pi be in the exact representation of fractional values?
17:54:49 <shachaf> Rational is nicer than CReal if you're just talking about rationals.
17:55:01 <FreeFull> ion: An infinite value of course
17:55:53 <FreeFull> 0.9 is definitely representable accurately without too much data though =P
17:56:08 <ion> in base-10
17:56:30 <FreeFull> In any base, using the right representation
17:57:04 <FreeFull> In binary you can say 1001/1010
17:57:30 <FreeFull> There, accurate representation of 0.9
17:57:41 <ion> :: Rational
17:58:07 <shachaf> pi is representable using only two bytes of data.
17:58:08 <Gregor> Funny that you're discussing this in here.
17:58:21 <Gregor> My latest FB post: The worst part of floating point math is not the fact that 0.1 + 0.2 yields 0.30000000000000004, but trying to explain to people why their language is horribly broken if 0.1 + 0.2 does NOT yield 0.30000000000000004.
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17:58:55 <fizzie> > toRational (25*0.036 :: Double)
17:58:56 <lambdabot> 2026619832316723 % 2251799813685248
18:00:06 <FreeFull> If you "cast" the end result to Rational, and you don't put :: Double in anywhere or anything similar, will the entire computation be done using rationals?
18:01:52 <FreeFull> Rational is a member of Fractional, right?
18:02:17 <shachaf> Haskell doesn't work that way, FreeFull.
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18:06:44 <fizzie> Rational is Ratio Integer, and there is an instance (Num (Ratio a), Integral a) => Fractional (Ratio a), which is maybe an answer, of sorts. But maybe a real Haskeller will explain it all.
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18:07:12 <ion> > toRational (pi :: Double)
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18:07:23 <ion> > toRational (exp 1 :: Double)
18:07:24 <lambdabot> 6121026514868073 % 2251799813685248
18:07:56 <fizzie> ion: That should show all those irrational-pi people.
18:09:30 <fizzie> > toRational (pi :: CReal)
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18:14:03 * Sgeo wonders if socket.io is/should be a sufficient motivation to use Node.js even if I don't want to use Javascript server-side
18:14:32 <Sgeo> Oh there exists socket.io for other languages
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18:15:14 <hagb4rd> one script to rule them all
18:18:09 <Gregor> Sgeo: Oh, but you DO want to use JavaScript server-side.
18:32:14 <kmc> http://blog.nelhage.com/2012/03/why-node-js-is-cool/ (it's not about performance)
18:32:52 <kmc> it's not about javascript either
18:33:38 <olsner> is it about doing cooperative multitasking by hand?
18:33:54 <kmc> kind of but not really
18:34:50 <fizzie> fungot: What's it all about, really, in the end?
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18:34:51 <fungot> fizzie: i need this terminal for something else in mind
18:35:12 <fizzie> fungot: Okay, be that way. I didn't want an answer anyway.
18:35:13 <fungot> fizzie: what now? :) ( of course that ignores the fact that i have
18:35:36 <olsner> oh, "a sweet spot in terms of what developers are willing to put up with"
18:36:26 <kmc> it's a framework which more or less forces you to write network libraries in a composable way
18:36:27 <Gregor> olsner: That's the best description of anything I have ever heard.
18:36:32 <kmc> which is something people traditionally do poorly
18:36:54 <kmc> it is not the theoretically best way of doing so, but it's a thing that exists now that a lot of people use
18:37:18 <kmc> that is the tl;dr of that article
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18:51:34 <olsner> tl;dr: 99 bottles of beer
18:55:24 <Gregor> itidus21: Yes, it's called C++.
18:55:48 <kmc> ISO-9899 bottles of beer
18:56:43 <itidus21> steal_underpants(); [...] return profit;
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18:58:02 <fizzie> An ISO 9001 bottle of beer is quality-managed.
18:58:30 <kmc> http://www.savingadvice.com/images/blog/generic-beer.jpg
18:59:19 <olsner> An ISO 8601 bottle of beer has a standardised date format.
18:59:36 <kmc> an ISO 3103 bottle of beer is actually tea
18:59:50 <fizzie> I like how the image accompanying ISO 9000#Contents of ISO 9001 is "ISO 9001 certification of a fish wholesaler in Tsukiji" http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/ISO_9001_in_Tsukiji.jpg/609px-ISO_9001_in_Tsukiji.jpg
19:00:07 <fizzie> ISO is also a demogroup.
19:00:37 <kmc> "ISO 8128-2:1993: Apple juice, apple juice concentrates and drinks containing apple juice -- Determination of patulin content -- Part 2: Method using thin-layer chromatography"
19:02:21 <kmc> http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_tc_browse.htm?commid=47918&published=on
19:03:30 <fizzie> (Or at least kind of a group.)
19:05:20 <fizzie> kmc: Did you purchase a copy of ISO 8128-2 already?
19:05:45 <fizzie> With that sort of a name, I'm sure it's flying off the shelves.
19:07:37 <kmc> i don't have any CHF :/
19:08:18 <FreeFull> Oh, it's a toxin produced by moulds
19:08:27 <kmc> the swiss see a pretty woman they say ein, zwei, drei and try to push her down some ice
19:10:15 <kmc> it's a quote from cool runnings
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20:17:37 <oerjan> <fizzie> I conclude that it mostly means something vaguely brownish. <-- THAT'S RACIST!
20:17:49 <ion> My new tattoo http://i.imgur.com/HH89J.jpg
20:18:42 <atriq> "is there a joke I'm missing"
20:19:03 <fizzie> oerjan: It's not racist when it's determined by an impartial algorithm.
20:19:22 <oerjan> fizzie: that's what the segregationists said!
20:25:32 <ion> > ((25*0.001)*36, 25*(0.001*36))
20:25:59 <ion> > ((25*0.001)*36, 25*(0.001*36), 25*(36*0.001))
20:26:00 <lambdabot> (0.9,0.9000000000000001,0.9000000000000001)
20:26:08 <oerjan> `addquote <Gregor> My latest FB post: The worst part of floating point math is not the fact that 0.1 + 0.2 yields 0.30000000000000004, but trying to explain to people why their language is horribly broken if 0.1 + 0.2 does NOT yield 0.30000000000000004.
20:26:11 <HackEgo> 866) <Gregor> My latest FB post: The worst part of floating point math is not the fact that 0.1 + 0.2 yields 0.30000000000000004, but trying to explain to people why their language is horribly broken if 0.1 + 0.2 does NOT yield 0.30000000000000004.
20:26:21 <ion> > ((25*0.001)*36, 25*(0.001*36), 25*(36/1000))
20:26:22 <lambdabot> (0.9,0.9000000000000001,0.8999999999999999)
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20:26:33 <shachaf> Posted Using FB2IRC Technology®
20:26:53 <atriq> > 0.1 + 0.2 :: Float
20:27:01 <atriq> > 0.1 + 0.2 :: Rational
20:27:15 <atriq> > 0.1 + 0.2 :: Quadrupal
20:27:16 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Quadrupal'
20:27:20 <atriq> > 0.1 + 0.2 :: Quadruple
20:27:21 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Quadruple'
20:27:56 <atriq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple-precision_floating-point_format
20:28:21 <atriq> It's a thing which exists
20:29:18 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Real.Rational)
20:29:28 <oerjan> i thought you might be misspelling Quaternion (not that i think lambdabot has that)
20:29:36 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Quaternion'
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20:29:42 <lambdabot> 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841972
20:30:10 <lambdabot> "3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406...
20:31:07 <oerjan> i was hoping for an unlimited option
20:31:28 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `CReal'
20:31:30 <oerjan> > showCReal 1000000000 pi
20:31:45 <oerjan> > showCReal 1000000000 pi
20:32:47 <atriq> For just $280000 I'll be able to read a webcomic offline when I'm 20!
20:33:54 <oerjan> these are zimbabwean dollars, right?
20:34:20 <atriq> I've organized a kickstarter to help me reach it
20:35:01 <oerjan> > toRational (25*0.036)
20:35:03 <lambdabot> 2026619832316723 % 2251799813685248
20:35:16 <atriq> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14293468/homestuck-adventure-game
20:35:29 <oerjan> i mean, before you linked it.
20:39:55 <oerjan> <FreeFull> If you "cast" the end result to Rational, and you don't put :: Double in anywhere or anything similar, will the entire computation be done using rationals? <-- that means no, btw
20:40:29 <oerjan> because toRational takes a Fractional as argument, which _still_ defaults to Double.
20:40:46 <FreeFull> oerjan: I wasn't using toRational
20:41:06 <oerjan> oh it was fizzie who did that.
20:42:06 <lambdabot> forall a. (Real a) => a -> Rational
20:42:14 <oerjan> make that Real, not Fractional
20:42:19 <lambdabot> forall a b. (Real a, Fractional b) => a -> b
20:42:20 <lambdabot> forall a. (Fractional a) => Rational -> a
20:43:45 <oerjan> realToFrac combines both toRational and fromRational
20:44:11 <lambdabot> forall a b. (Integral a, Num b) => a -> b
20:45:08 <oerjan> while fromIntegral combines toInteger and fromInteger. so those two are the only ones you need for usual numeric "casts".
20:46:13 <oerjan> > toRational (pi :: CReal) -- hm...
20:47:07 <oerjan> lambdabot's unbounded "real number" type
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20:47:17 <oerjan> from some module on hackage
20:47:49 <oerjan> > toRational (0.2 :: CReal) -- hm...
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20:52:23 <oerjan> > logBase 2 281474976710656
20:52:52 <oerjan> it's just converting the binary form of the Double to an exact Rational
20:53:13 <oerjan> > 1e1000000000000000 :: Double -- is this bug still there...
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20:54:15 <oerjan> it crashes instead of producing an Infinity value because it follows the haskell standard precisely and converts to an out-of-memory Rational first :)
20:55:14 <lambdabot> 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000...
20:57:05 <oerjan> someone recently made a ghc extension so 1e1000 can produce an Integral value
20:57:36 <oerjan> :t 1e100000000000000000000000 --hm...
20:58:06 <oerjan> heh the expansion happens even before type checking
21:01:37 <oerjan> :t 1e100000000000000000000000 --double checking that
21:03:55 <FreeFull> :t 1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e10)))))))
21:03:59 <lambdabot> forall t t1 t2 t3 t4 t5 t6 t7. (Num (t -> t1), Num (t2 -> t), Num (t3 -> t2), Num (t4 -> t3), Num (t5 -> t4), Num (t6 -> t5), Num (t7 -> t6), Fractional t7) => t1
21:04:11 <FreeFull> :t 1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e10))))))))
21:04:19 <FreeFull> > 1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e10)))))))
21:05:48 <oerjan> it's not actually parsed as one token
21:06:05 <olsner> but if there's a number after the e it gets parsed as a literal?
21:06:20 <lambdabot> forall t t1. (Num (t1 -> t), Num t1) => t
21:08:10 <oerjan> haskell has a general greedy lexing rule, although i think there are corner cases ghc gets "wrong" (that no sane person will use)
21:08:45 <oerjan> :t Just.if True then 1 else 2
21:09:15 <oerjan> i think that should technically notice that if is a keyword
21:09:30 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `t1 -> t2 -> t'
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21:10:01 <FreeFull> Lambdabot seems to do e differently
21:11:01 <oerjan> it has a primitive symbolic expression type which all letters are defined as
21:11:37 <lambdabot> Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraints:
21:12:09 <oerjan> > (f+g+h) (i+j+k) :: Expr
21:12:11 <lambdabot> f (i + j + k) + g (i + j + k) + h (i + j + k)
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21:12:50 <oerjan> and it also has its weird numeric instances for functions, which combines nicely with that
21:13:42 <oerjan> but there are so many additions it gets confusing.
21:14:29 <oerjan> > 1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e10)))))))
21:14:46 <oerjan> i really don't understand why that times out
21:16:05 <FreeFull> ghci fails on anything that doesn't follow the somethingesomething format
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21:16:30 <FreeFull> That is, together, no spaces, and no brackets for the somethings
21:16:54 <olsner> oh, the somethingsomething format
21:16:59 <oerjan> FreeFull: yes. because it will parse 1e1 as 1 e1 and if you haven't defined e1...
21:17:20 <oerjan> i mean 1esomethingnot1
21:17:41 <FreeFull> 1e gets parsed as a 1 and then an e
21:17:41 <lambdabot> forall t t1. (Num (t1 -> t), Num t1) => t
21:18:58 <olsner> > fromIntegral (1 e 1) :: Integer
21:19:02 <lambdabot> forall t t1. (Num (t -> t1)) => t -> t1
21:19:38 <oerjan> i think lambdabot may simply be overworked
21:20:13 <olsner> > fromIntegral (1 e 1) :: Integer
21:20:20 <olsner> let's overwork it again!
21:20:23 <oerjan> > 1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e10))))))) :: Integer
21:20:35 <oerjan> > 1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e(1e10)))))))
21:21:04 <olsner> hmm, is 1 e 1 supposed to be 10?
21:22:10 <olsner> 1e1 was what I was thinking about, I just overspaced it a bit
21:22:58 <oerjan> it's equivalent to fromRationl (10%1)
21:23:36 <olsner> hmm, because all floating point literals go through fromRational?
21:27:32 <oerjan> FreeFull: technically that should _never_ evaluate the part in parentheses. lambdabot is just generally overworked.
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21:28:20 <oerjan> for a function, lambdabot's instances make 1 = const 1
21:28:49 <oerjan> "pointwise arithmetic", is the term
21:29:36 <oerjan> > 1 (Just "floccinaucinihilipilification")
21:29:43 <oerjan> > 1 (Just "floccinaucinihilipilification")
21:31:35 <oerjan> someone swat whoever is giving lambdabot fatigue for me
21:32:10 <olsner> oerjan: you are responsible for the swattings in here
21:33:52 <oerjan> but they're probably not in this channel!
21:34:30 <oerjan> like everything else with lambdabot, there's a command which is impossible to remember the name of
21:35:59 <olsner> there is more than one... what's the name of the command that starts yhjul?
21:39:12 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\"
21:39:28 <olsner> the real name is longer
21:39:28 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow . ? @ v
21:39:46 <olsner> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
21:39:46 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\"
21:39:51 <olsner> aah, hello again old friend
21:39:58 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\...
21:40:14 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: check choice-add choose clear-messages compose . ? @ rc v
21:40:23 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 . ? @ v
21:40:35 <lambdabot> http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Lambdabot
21:40:46 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src . ? @ v
21:40:55 <lambdabot> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all
21:41:01 <lambdabot> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all
21:41:27 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> a
21:41:28 <oerjan> that sounds like something that should just have been in @where
21:41:48 <lambdabot> dummy provides: eval choose id read show dummy bug get-shapr faq paste learn map shootout botsnack thanks thx thank you ping wiki oldwiki docs source fptools hackage googleit
21:42:00 <lambdabot> system provides: echo list listchans listmodules listservers uptime
21:42:03 <lambdabot> ##freebsd ##logic ##math ##proggit ##villagegreen #agda #arch-haskell #codez #darcs #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs #haskell #
21:42:04 <lambdabot> haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-in-depth #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell.au #haskell.cz #haskell.de #haskell.dut #haskell.es #haskell.se #haskell.
21:42:04 <lambdabot> tw #learnanycomputerlanguage #lesswrong #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #snapframework #tanuki #teamunix #unicycling #uscs2010 #xmonad #yi weird#
21:42:57 <oerjan> shapr isn't even online
21:43:02 <olsner> I hope this command works something like the bat signal
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21:44:13 <lambdabot> 2.7182818284590452353602874713526624977572
21:45:12 <lambdabot> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/numbers
21:45:28 <copumpkin> which someone added to maximize confusion
21:49:02 <oerjan> hackage is case sensitive? :(
21:50:32 <FreeFull> numbers sure produces a lot of warnings when installed
21:59:42 <oerjan> i don't think so, it's another name for the element tungsten
21:59:51 <itidus21> (no.. and it will only be a unit for anything over my dead body)
22:01:05 <olsner> some say Wolfram is the unit of ego
22:01:31 <olsner> > During the dinner discussion leading up to this definition the foreword to one of the Mathematica books was mentioned, where Stephen Wolfram (in third person) wrote "Stephen Wolfram is the creator of Mathematica and is widely regarded as the most important innovator in scientific and technical computing today." In honour of this self-assessment I suggest we call the unit of ego the Wolfram.
22:01:32 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `of'
22:02:15 <itidus21> in theory ego should be measurable right?
22:03:12 <itidus21> i guess it needs to be related to other things before it becomes useful
22:03:25 <olsner> that quote was from the first hit, the second hit was http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=size+of+stephen+wolfram%27s+ego
22:03:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
22:05:42 <oerjan> IT DOESN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION. USELESS CRAP.
22:06:30 <olsner> it should say 1 Wolfram, but I suppose that kind of self-deprecating humor is incompatible with his ego
22:07:29 <oerjan> do they actually have these things in america http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/121002.html
22:07:58 <itidus21> lmao @ "http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=size+of+stephen+wolfram%27s+ego"
22:09:05 <oerjan> ...i just realized what to call the unit of obviousness, here.
22:09:33 <oerjan> olsner: it starts with i and ends with s
22:10:01 <oerjan> no, obvious doesn't start with i.
22:11:31 <oerjan> i guess it was sort of obvious.
22:12:13 <oerjan> <olsner> but that starts with s!
22:12:20 <itidus21> i wonder if enough people used that query on wolfram whether it would show up in the wolfram offices
22:13:02 <olsner> it is conceivable that at least one of the quotes about units of ego have been forwarded
22:13:04 <oerjan> in the wolfram offices, wolfram's ego is the elephant in the room
22:15:09 <olsner> in the wolfram offices, it takes physical form and walks around in the shape of an elephant
22:15:58 <itidus21> stephen+ego Development of this topic is under investigation...
22:16:04 <itidus21> i'm.. not sure what that means
22:16:05 <barts> wolfram's ego is the office
22:16:23 <barts> if you're working for wolfram, you enter his ego every day from 9 til 5.
22:16:59 <olsner> it's like that star trek episode where they think there's an entity helping a starbase, but it turns out the entity *is* the starbase
22:17:08 <oerjan> olsner: i think you ruined the joke. :(
22:17:42 <barts> olsner: which episode was that
22:17:52 <barts> the first tng one?
22:17:52 <oerjan> a pun on "elephant in the room" and the size of wolfram's ego
22:18:10 <barts> no man, they thought the entity was killing the base
22:18:28 <barts> but it was helping other entities of its kind which were the base
22:18:34 <barts> or something like that
22:18:45 <olsner> there were two entities
22:21:12 <olsner> there are probably other episodes with similar plots as well
22:21:37 <oerjan> also, no one answered my question of whether they really have these crazy things in america http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/121002.html
22:22:25 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
22:22:25 <olsner> those 'muricans be crazy
22:26:41 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
22:27:37 <itidus21> oops.. i almost forgot the link i was reading wasn't posted in here
22:28:17 <itidus21> apparently wolfram's new kind of science recommends mathematica.. and someone is annoyed by it
22:29:53 <itidus21> i think.. maybe he should see a psychologist
22:30:36 <quintopia> oerjan: i'm not sure, but i dont think it's illegal to carry these around
22:30:39 <quintopia> http://www.bondorseals.com/more_info/cable_and_hose_bridges/cable_and_hose_bridges.htm
22:32:04 <itidus21> when i was young i had a remote control car with a kind of bridge it could lower under itself
22:33:00 <oerjan> quintopia: i don't quite see the relevance
22:33:26 <itidus21> oerjan: to place over those traffic bumps from the linked comic
22:33:50 <oerjan> itidus21: ok, but that doesn't in any way detract from the bumps' insanity
22:33:57 <fizzie> I had some of those flipping cars.
22:34:51 <fizzie> There's a spring-loaded lever kind of thing that activates after a bit of travel, and makes the car jump and flip over and sometimes even land the right way up.
22:35:12 <fizzie> Or possibly snap on your fingers when arming, or some other such thing.
22:35:38 <oerjan> i guess the point is americans are so crazy that you have to use these crazy things to prevent them from driving against one-way roads.
22:37:07 -!- copumpkin has joined.
22:37:49 <oerjan> unless the real point is americans are so crazy they _think_ other americans are that crazy.
22:38:22 <fizzie> oerjan: Aren't those things parking-lot-entrance related more than just generic one-way-street related? Not that I *know* anything.
22:41:36 <fizzie> oerjan: They installed one of those "giant metal pole rises up from the street" traffic control devices at the ends of a mostly-pedestrian street (vehicles that need access get a remote to lower it, and it auto-lowers if trying to exit the street); a day later it rose up when a taxi was right over it.
22:42:00 <fizzie> I think they said it was some kind of a set-up bug that they fixed.
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22:47:20 <itidus21> i am more interested in the unsolicited humour than reality when i say there is no operation which satisfies x in the equation (> (x wolfram) (in mathematicians_wolfram_admires))
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22:52:02 <oerjan> itidus21: formulating mathematics in lisp syntax rarely works for humour, especially when it's utterly logically meaningless.
22:55:22 <itidus21> what i tried to say is really in bad taste
22:56:42 <Phantom_Hoover> you just put some brackets around it, we're not buzzing and giving off smoke
22:57:16 -!- augur has joined.
22:57:27 <itidus21> i know it couldn't be more hypocritical, since obviously i needed quite an overinflated ego to say it, and also that i am a god awful mathematician
22:57:43 <itidus21> incidentally i am also an awful integer
22:58:17 <itidus21> i try to self deprecate to keep it down
23:01:18 <itidus21> yea i probably make it seem uncool to make fun of wolfram
23:02:16 <itidus21> i layed down and thought about it, i guess its just a business thing..
23:04:47 <itidus21> government:president::employees:employer::animators:director etc
23:11:53 * oerjan is in _that_ mood today.
23:12:46 <kmc> itidus21:full of shit always
23:13:04 <kmc> i enjoy it tho
23:13:22 <kmc> i don't understand what *he* gets out of it, but i enjoy it
23:13:29 <Phantom_Hoover> as it stands he spends too much time dragging down the discussion
23:13:54 <Phantom_Hoover> it's fun for a while and all but he's still making the channel that much worse by being here and he's clearly never going to change
23:14:30 <oerjan> oh dear, i seem to have triggered Phantom_Hoover into _his_ mood.
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23:15:55 <kmc> the self deprecation doesn't help
23:16:06 <kmc> it's one thing to occasionally overstep your knowledge and admit that you are doing so
23:16:14 <Gregor> oerjan: Wouldja like some popcorn?
23:16:36 -!- Jafet has joined.
23:16:53 <kmc> it's another thing to say completely wrong worthless things all the time, with the stated knowledge that they are completely wrong
23:16:54 <FreeFull> I find that if I'm doing badly at a game, and say how much I suck, I start doing better
23:17:31 <kmc> that basically amounts to admitting "i like the sound of my own voice and i don't care what you get out of it"
23:18:35 <Arc_Koen> but that sound is so nice and pleasant!
23:25:58 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: if you had the restriction "for all loops, the current cell must be the same at the beginning of every iteration of that loop" to brainfuck, does it change tcness?
23:26:19 <Arc_Koen> you told me it didn't, for 3-cell brainfuck, but do the proofs for the other forms of brainfuck still hold?
23:28:22 <fizzie> Arc_Koen: For bounded-cell-size unbounded-tape brainfuck, it vaguely sounds like that'd limit the amount of accessible memory to something that depends on the amount of >s in the program.
23:30:22 <Arc_Koen> well that's a confirmation that I'm too tired right now
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23:31:12 <Arc_Koen> I wanted to prove that pbrain was tc even without the [ ] loops
23:32:11 <Arc_Koen> and assuming the > didn't need to disobey that restriction I could've said it was obvious but I'll guess it'll need a little more work
23:32:28 <Arc_Koen> so have a good night and see you guys
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