00:00:33 <kmc> git commits are immutable objects; they are named by their SHA1 hash so there is no way to mutate one unless you find a SHA1 collision ;)
00:01:21 <kmc> each commit refers to its parent(s) also by hash, so in that sense, history is completely immutable
00:01:51 <kmc> but you can always take some sequence of commits, and construct a new sequence of commits which does something similar but different
00:01:56 <shachaf> I think "rewrites history" is more accurate than "mutates history".
00:02:48 <kmc> and then you can switch your branch to use the new history rather than the old one
00:03:17 <kmc> because a branch is not an immutable object, it's a named pointer into the database of immutable objects
00:03:59 <kmc> a branch is literally just a text file in .git/refs/heads with a hex SHA1 hash in it
00:04:06 <kmc> that is also why branches are so cheap to create
00:05:15 <zzo38> For example getCC/runCC can be like: runReaderT (runContT (do { liftIO $ putStrLn "Hello!"; la <- getCC; v <- liftIO $ getLine; n <- ContT (\f -> ReaderT $ \q -> runReaderT (f $ succ q) (succ q)); liftIO $ putStrLn (v ++ ":" ++ show n); when (v /= "" && n < 10) $ runCC la; }) return) 0
00:05:29 <shachaf> getCC = callCC (return . fix)?
00:05:40 <zzo38> shachaf: No. getCC = callCC (return . CT);
00:05:52 <zzo38> (Where CT is just a newtype wrapper)
00:06:39 <zzo38> runCC = runCT <*> id; (where runCT is the field of that newtype wrapper, and CT is the constructor)
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00:07:17 <kmc> Sgeo: so rebase takes my local commits, and creates a new sequence of commits as though I had applied those patches to the current upstream, and then sets my local branch to point at the new history
00:07:24 <kmc> (in this case. rebase can do many other things as well)
00:07:32 <ion> rebase -i is awesome.
00:08:09 <kmc> with rebase -i and add -p, you can really make your history look nice
00:08:39 <zzo38> I suppose it is even possible for the result type of a continuation monad to be another continuation monad, or if you use the proper newtype wrappers, even the same one, inside of some other monad or something like that too, even
00:08:43 <kmc> imo the point of version control history is to tell a logical story about how the code got from point A to point B
00:10:30 <kmc> how's that working out for you
00:10:55 <shachaf> I got randomly selected to have my laptop checked, though.
00:11:04 <kmc> what did they do?
00:11:04 <shachaf> Fortunately they only checked the outside.
00:11:14 <kmc> were you flying into the US from another country?
00:11:16 <shachaf> Rubbed something over it and put it in a machine, I think.
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00:26:38 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: that wasn't a typo! that was me not speaking english
00:31:14 <Arc_Koen> funny thing: my other recent edit was on the total BF talk page and included "whereas it will have been replaced by a 0" where I guess a "with" could (should?) be substituted for the "by"
00:32:03 <shachaf> dcStupidTheta :: ThetaType,-- The context of the data type declaration
00:32:48 <oerjan> i think both are allowed there
00:33:56 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: the term is "For what it's worth" hth
00:34:32 <Arc_Koen> that was completely unintended
00:34:42 <Arc_Koen> "For what I'm worth" would have been intended
00:34:43 <oerjan> freudian slippery slope
00:35:13 <oerjan> ...but would still have been unidiomatic.
00:35:46 <Arc_Koen> oh, not-logged-in users cannot check the fancy little 'm' box
00:37:16 <Arc_Koen> hey is there an easy way to have non-printable characters printed to the console?
00:37:45 <Arc_Koen> the cat program I wrote works almost correctly in my interpreter
00:38:17 <oerjan> i don't use consoles much
00:38:50 <Arc_Koen> uh, wait, console might not be the english term
00:38:56 <oerjan> gvim and winghci, mostly
00:39:30 <oerjan> although i do use it for my shell account where i've got my web page
00:40:13 <oerjan> terminal window is the usual term, i think. i thought you meant like "linux console", which elliott has been asking about a lot recently
00:40:26 <oerjan> and which i haven't used for years.
00:41:23 <Arc_Koen> well it the same thing as a linux console, isn't?
00:41:23 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: perl -e "print (chr 7);" would be one way? :P
00:41:36 <Arc_Koen> except that I'm not using linux
00:41:40 <shachaf> kmc: Did you ever get your Stripe CTF 2.0 shirt?
00:42:00 <oerjan> i thought linux console referred to what you have if you're using linux but not running a GUI
00:42:12 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: well humI meant I'd like to know whether my program doesn't print some garbage
00:42:15 <oerjan> maybe i've misunderstood
00:42:40 <Arc_Koen> here you can see it seems to be working correctly except for that question mark that appears
00:42:50 <oerjan> ah so you want to _check_ for non-printable characters
00:42:54 <Arc_Koen> and which usually means I've printed a character the terminal window doesn't recognise
00:43:13 <Arc_Koen> of course I could just modify the interpreter to print numerci values instead of characters
00:43:41 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: i think piping into hexdump is useful for that
00:44:54 <oerjan> not that i've used it before, or understand the format, but it should tell exactly what the output was
00:45:55 <oerjan> you just made a hexdump file :P
00:46:21 <Arc_Koen> hexdump: A: No such file or directory
00:46:21 <Arc_Koen> hexdump: A: Bad file descriptor
00:47:39 <oerjan> echo 'a' | hexdump -C might be better, it prints the printable ones readably too
00:48:48 <Arc_Koen> 00000000 63 65 63 69 20 65 73 74 20 75 6e 20 74 65 73 74 |ceci est un test|
00:48:50 <oerjan> and the rest as .'s, it seems
00:49:15 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: ok so you have a stray ff at the end
00:49:27 <oerjan> the 0a is just a newline
00:49:56 <oerjan> `run echo 'a' | hexdump
00:50:31 <Arc_Koen> well the program does contain the value 255 as a marker
00:50:37 <oerjan> oh wait no, that was without -C
00:50:37 <Arc_Koen> (because of the ever-growing thing in sceql)
00:50:45 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: yeah, but it got printed at the end
00:50:50 <Arc_Koen> echo 'ceci est un test' | hexdump -C
00:50:51 <Arc_Koen> 00000000 63 65 63 69 20 65 73 74 20 75 6e 20 74 65 73 74 |ceci est un test|
00:50:56 <Arc_Koen> yes that's not supposed to happen
00:51:16 <Arc_Koen> besides, the number of outputs in the sceql program is exactly one less that the number of inputs
00:51:26 <Arc_Koen> which seemed logical since the last input was end of file
00:52:30 <Arc_Koen> but if the 255 is printed as well, there should be as many outputs as inputs
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00:53:54 <Arc_Koen> as you can see, one * inside the loop, one & inside the loop, and one & outside the loop
00:54:26 <Arc_Koen> and it doesn't seem to be the interpreter's fault since other programs work fine
00:57:04 <oerjan> have you checked other programs with hexdump?
01:01:54 <Arc_Koen> simple hello world program:00000000 48 65 6c 6c 6f 2c 20 77 6f 72 6c 64 21 0a |Hello, world!.|
01:02:11 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: oh hm, shouldn't you have *& rather than &*
01:02:26 <Arc_Koen> I think not but I'll think about it
01:02:41 <oerjan> the first character read will never be printed
01:02:44 <Arc_Koen> the idea is that input enqueue the input at the back of the queue (cause it's a queue)
01:03:05 <Arc_Koen> while output has the side effect of going to the next element
01:04:06 <Arc_Koen> and the program basically does "enqueue the next input just after the marker"
01:04:29 <Arc_Koen> so at the beginning of a loop, the marker is at the end and the previous input (which hasn't been printed yet) is at the front
01:04:44 <Arc_Koen> if you output it, it will go after the marker and you don't want that
01:04:56 <Arc_Koen> so first you input the next char, then only you output
01:05:22 <Arc_Koen> [prev ... 255] INPUT OUTPUT [... 255 curr prev]
01:05:56 <Arc_Koen> then you have a loop that will go through the '...' which are all the older inputs
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01:06:23 <Arc_Koen> the loop says "while the front byte is not 255, go to next"
01:06:53 <Arc_Koen> INC BEGIN while not 255 DEC NEXT INC END DEC
01:06:56 <oerjan> i think the program should work...
01:07:20 <Arc_Koen> that's what I thought too, but apparently the 255 is outputted
01:07:39 <oerjan> well then there must be something wrong with the interpreter.
01:07:41 <Arc_Koen> ok i'll try it with the interpreter linked below
01:08:28 <kmc> `run echo {}[] | iconv -f iso646-fi
01:08:31 <HackEgo> iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0
01:09:52 <oerjan> it takes a file, not a program string.
01:10:28 <Arc_Koen> so command > name just creates a new file?
01:10:41 <oerjan> yes, with the output of command
01:10:53 <Arc_Koen> I was about to try echo '-&=\&*_\-=_/-=/' > ./sceql_ref
01:11:00 <oerjan> it will also happily overwrite an old one
01:12:25 <Arc_Koen> echo 'this is a test' | ./sceql_ref cat.ttt
01:12:40 <Arc_Koen> but no question mark, so I guess it works fine
01:13:19 <Arc_Koen> so there is something wrong with the damn interpreter
01:14:44 <Arc_Koen> I was so proud that it was shorter than the reference interpreter and yet accepted both single-char command and plain text
01:15:12 <Arc_Koen> like, you could have a program "INC _ iozguqn INC" and it would still perform three increments
01:16:48 <Arc_Koen> ok I'll try the same program but with 254 as a marker instead
01:17:03 <Arc_Koen> and if it doesn't work I'LL TRY 253
01:18:22 <Arc_Koen> Program contains no instructions
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01:25:15 <Arc_Koen> so here's my resolution: at 3:30 in the morning I will NOT debug a sceql interpreter in C
01:26:33 <kmc> is it 3:30 in the morning for you
01:26:56 <Arc_Koen> wait does that mean I have four minutes to debug it
01:27:17 <kmc> a real rockstar ninja hacker could do it
01:27:26 <oerjan> sic transit gloria resolutionum
01:27:27 <kmc> just chug some redbull and bro out to some killer kodez
01:30:05 <Sgeo> And so you code
01:32:22 <Arc_Koen> fyi the parser doesn't seem to be the problem
01:32:25 * Sgeo vaguely wonders what sceql is
01:32:47 * oerjan vaguely suggests searching the wiki
01:32:59 <HackEgo> man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config
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01:33:27 <Arc_Koen> basically you have a queue and you can push stuff to it
01:33:28 <oerjan> the people have spoken: sceql has awful documentation.
01:33:52 <Sgeo> Hmm, maybe that would give me some good Clojure practice
01:34:06 <Arc_Koen> yes I'm sure you'll find closure by programming in sceql
01:34:15 <Sgeo> Although elliott once said that he would not use interpreters written in Clojure, and that scared me off from Clojure for a long time
01:35:44 <Arc_Koen> oh hey btw if someone would be so kind as to tell me whether this is good programming style or not: http://pastebin.com/5dmVMpcq
01:36:05 <Arc_Koen> appart from the fact that there are no comments
01:37:00 <Arc_Koen> there are two functions : the function instruction returns the instruction pointed to by the array index (with the side effect of modifying the index if the instruction was not just one char)
01:37:32 <Arc_Koen> and the function parser which takes a sceql program and overwrites it with a parsed sceql program
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01:40:59 <Arc_Koen> and I don't know the functon instruction looks slightly like a hack
01:41:12 <Sgeo> Clojure seems like it would be... overkill, somehow
01:42:37 <Arc_Koen> (only fifteen minutes between the first and second gnights, not bad)
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01:48:02 <kmc> heh Arc_Koen's quit message is something I said here recently
01:48:17 <tswett> I'm not a fan of instruction().
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01:49:25 <oerjan> shouldn't that use some kind of string comparison instead of all that character/pointer stuff
01:57:19 <oerjan> @tell Arc_Koen you might want to use something like if (*i + 3 < l && !memcmp(&(p[*i+1]), "EXT", 3) { for that
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01:59:17 <oerjan> i guess that's the same as p + *i + 1, and that p and *i could be combined somehow, but i'm not a C style expert.
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01:59:57 <oerjan> can pointers be compared usefully with < ?
02:00:59 <oerjan> oh hm there's that undefined behavior if you go too far outside the allocated memory.
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02:59:02 <Sgeo> monqy, tswett arpdoop
03:11:55 <kmc> yeah, C guarantees that a pointer one past the end of an array is a valid value, for use in comparisons like this
03:12:21 <kmc> but more than one past the end is probably UB
03:12:47 <kmc> of course you're not allowed to dereference that pointer to one past the end of the array
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03:55:32 <kmc> 2^32 channels and nothing on...
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05:46:08 <olsner> oh, that reminds me of a funny bug I found... some function was taking a buffer pointer and length, but in a context where it was "known" it wouldn't overflow it was being used with INT_MAX as the buffer length
05:47:07 <olsner> leading to some funny effects when the buffer address had ... certain values
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06:06:07 <kmc> how's that
06:08:57 <fizzie> I haven't seen the thing in question, but I would guesstimate it had something to do with buf+len < buf (or a test of p < buf+len with p in the buffer falsely failing) with len of INT_MAX and buf too high up.
06:09:23 <olsner> yeah, somewhere in the function there was some "safety" check to see that the pointer was still inside the buffer
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10:46:51 <lambdabot> Arc_Koen: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
10:46:57 <lambdabot> oerjan said 8h 49m 38s ago: you might want to use something like if (*i + 3 < l && !memcmp(&(p[*i+1]), "EXT", 3) { for that
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11:46:43 <atriq> Can anyone recommend a C++ tutorial for someone coming from Haskell with the aim of using the Unreal Development Kit?
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12:13:35 <atriq> elliott, Unreal Development Kit. Haskell. How much point is there trying to get both at once if I have a reason to use the former?
12:14:06 <atriq> Use the UDK in Haskell
12:16:03 <atriq> To do it, I'd need to use Haskell's FFI to do C code which does C++ code which does the UDK
12:16:30 <elliott> sounds like a full-time project to get them talking raelly
12:16:39 <elliott> i wouldn't use udk in the first place tho
12:16:52 <atriq> I have a reason to that is out of my control
12:17:27 <atriq> One of my friends is making a team for a competition organised by Epic Games
12:17:57 <elliott> surely using haskell is banned somehow
12:18:06 <atriq> Nah, you just need to use the UDK
12:18:38 <atriq> And now I will leave to look for clothes.
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12:21:55 <Arc_Koen> hey, if I design an esolang and it turns out to be very very similar to something that already exist, what do I do?
12:22:13 <Arc_Koen> I create a page nonetheless (with reference to the other in a "see also" section), or not?
12:22:46 <elliott> you can create it if you want to
12:22:59 <elliott> you don't even have to mention the similarity if you don't want to, although someone else might notice and add it
12:23:15 <elliott> whether it's worth adding despite the similarities is up to you
12:23:36 <elliott> we have languages that are identical to others with only minor syntactic changes, after all, although they're not very well-liked (brainfuck equivalents)
12:26:16 <Arc_Koen> yes it happens to be a brainfuck derivative :( I thought about it yesterday, and of course something similar already exists (I think all brainfuck derivatives already exist) and I'm thinking it feels counterproductive to make pages for all brainfuck derivatives I can think of, because everyone can think of them
12:26:33 <Arc_Koen> (I would probably not have asked if it was not a brainfuck derivative)
12:28:41 <elliott> well, brainfuck derivative =/= brainfuck equivalent
12:28:53 <elliott> but it's hard to say more without knowing more about your language, really
12:29:16 <Arc_Koen> well the idea is that the code is contained in the data tape
12:29:34 <Arc_Koen> the tape is finite (initially as long as the program itself)
12:29:50 <Arc_Koen> there are two pointers, both initially pointing to the same cell (the instruction pointer and the data pointer)
12:30:10 <Arc_Koen> the tape is circular, and there is an instruction to create a new cell (so that memory isn't bounded)
12:30:25 <elliott> that seems a lot more interesting than other BF derivatives
12:30:27 <elliott> what is the similar language?
12:30:27 <Arc_Koen> of course "self-modifying brainfuck" already exists
12:30:49 <Arc_Koen> though it doesn't have a finite tape
12:31:28 <elliott> it sounds different enough
12:31:33 <elliott> not like there's limited space on the wiki, anyway
12:32:12 <Arc_Koen> I've written a pretty detailed description, but I have no name
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12:48:40 <elliott> Qq q q q qqq qq Qq q q qqq
12:50:22 <elliott> "These images are epic, it's like Reddit, only on github!" -- actual github comment
12:51:40 <barts> sounds like twitter, only on livejournal
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12:58:12 <elliott> `run echo "@tell DAZ44 $(welcome DAZ44)"
12:58:24 <HackEgo> @tell DAZ44 DAZ44: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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14:23:17 <Arc_Koen> really, I can't write "followed with"?
14:23:58 <atriq> I think it's "followed by"?
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14:32:37 <atriq> What's the context?
14:43:08 <Arc_Koen> uh well in both cases it was a character in a string, followed by another character
14:43:33 <Arc_Koen> and well I naturally write "followed with" but apparently I should write "followed by"
14:43:45 <Arc_Koen> I don't know, "followed with" sounded like english
14:45:13 <atriq> English is a ridiculous language
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14:45:39 <atriq> It's Vikings who spoke French trying to talk to Germans in Latin
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14:46:00 <atriq> (actually almost true)
14:47:02 <atriq> While I could talk for about 5 minutes about the history of the English language, I'm not going to.
14:49:31 <Arc_Koen> that language have existed for centuries or millenia, and you can only talk about its history for five minutes?!
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15:07:41 <kmc> i spoke english before it was cool
15:10:53 <elliott> kmc: do you know anything about ancient versions of borland turbo c++
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15:12:30 <elliott> kmc: this is a non-philosophical question
15:14:37 <kmc> but i did use openwatcom c yesterday
15:17:50 <kmc> to compile a dos program
15:18:23 <kmc> my friend wrote a program for AVR that blinks some LEDs in patterns to induce hallucinations
15:18:31 <kmc> and i decided to convert it to a DOS program that blinks the screen
15:18:34 <kmc> for no particular reason
15:19:49 <kmc> i also used openwatcom c for http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2010/10/programming-jvf-2010.html
15:20:43 <elliott> did you only sort of hallucinate
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15:20:57 <kmc> it doesn't really work unless it fills the entire visual field
15:21:16 <kmc> it produces standing waves in the primary visual cortex
15:21:25 <kmc> which sounds like star trek but there are actual neuroscience papers about this
15:21:32 <kmc> (my friend is a co-author on one of them)
15:22:23 <kmc> oh, how naive i was back when i wrote this
15:22:25 <kmc> i thought "public domain"
15:22:29 <kmc> was a thing
15:22:53 <shachaf> public static void doMain()
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15:26:18 <kmc> it's funny to read old code and pick apart my old style
15:26:56 <kmc> it's only indented two spaces
15:27:24 <kmc> and i thought "while (foo) { }" is more readable than "while (foo);"
15:27:26 <kmc> i am not sure now
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15:29:45 <elliott> kmc: Don't you hate it when you get disconnected from IRC and your replies to things get dropped and also you miss other things other pepole say??
15:29:53 <elliott> clearly should make unrelaible internet connections illegal
15:30:04 <kmc> that's why i run irssi on ec2 and connect to it with mosh
15:30:18 <elliott> kmc: You need an endorsement line on that advertisement.
15:30:29 <kmc> i'm keegan and i approved this message
15:30:34 <elliott> ANYWAY <elliott> kmc: i like the comments on that entry
15:30:46 <elliott> I would use irssi except I hate irssi's interface.
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15:35:42 <elliott> I don't know of any good IRC clients.
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15:43:40 <elliott> aha, http://www.ousob.com/ng/borcpp/ng365.php
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16:13:36 <Gregor> The new bitbucket look…
16:16:51 <elliott> doesn't look anything like facebook
16:22:24 <Gregor> Top blue bar with logo on the left, search and account dropdowns, user pages are timelines, project pages (now like “Pages” on Facebook) expect your project to have a face—err, logo—placed exactly where Facebook puts it.
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16:32:49 <atriq> Why am I looking at the Tumblr tag for Haskell?
16:33:14 <FireFly> Huh, when did the bitbucket redesing thing happen?
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16:39:22 <FireFly> The whole "pretend to be Facebook" thing seems a bit silly, what with the colour scheme and whatnot
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16:40:50 <FireFly> Though on the brighter side of things, I do like the icons for various actions in the newsfeed
16:41:41 <Gregor> Yeah, there are lots of little improvements that help things, I overall prefer the new UI.
16:41:57 <Gregor> It's just that if I recommended Bitbucket to a friend right now, I'm 100% certain that they'd ask me why it's trying to be Facebook.
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18:21:54 <nortti> ok. who the hell manes their web browser browsex?
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18:41:52 <atriq> A really desperate person with a forehead fetish
18:45:24 <fizzie> Too much RegisterClassEx and CreateWindowEx and such.
18:45:42 <olsner> fed up with Browse? try BrowseEx!
18:45:58 <olsner> (or BrowseExW if you want unicode support)
18:46:25 <fizzie> Or maybe they found the developer at ExpertsExchange.
18:47:16 <fizzie> Brows, named by someone *right* after calling creat.
18:56:53 <fizzie> It used to be at expertsexchange.com, I believe.
18:57:01 <fizzie> They added a dash later.
18:58:38 <nortti> that would be awesome url
18:59:32 <fizzie> There's also Pen Island at penisland.net -- they sell pens.
18:59:47 <atriq> That was deliberate, I'm sure.
18:59:49 <fizzie> It's rather likely to be intentional, though.
18:59:59 <atriq> There's Who Represents
19:00:18 <fizzie> I mean, the slogan for Pen Island is "Your Pen Is Our Business".
19:00:36 <olsner> how many people looking for penisland will end up buying a pen after coming to pen island?
19:03:01 <fizzie> There's also the Holland's Hit Festival site at hollandshitfestival.nl.
19:03:31 <fizzie> Oh, and that Therapist Finder service.
19:04:02 <olsner> hmm, Holland Hit Festival sounds like it would be better english, as well as a less unfortunate domain name
19:04:19 <fizzie> olsner: The site is all in Dutch anyway.
19:04:39 <fizzie> nortti: There are several articles. Probably someone has made a combined list too.
19:05:00 <fizzie> "Worst domain names" is a good search keyword I'd guess.
19:10:32 <fizzie> They seem to tend to be titled "unintentionally bad", but many of them are probably not.
19:10:35 <fizzie> http://www.boredpanda.com/worst-domain-names/ has 30, that's long-ish.
19:10:47 <fizzie> Oh, I remember that Powergen Italia page from before, too.
19:11:06 <olsner> oh, that one is actually funny
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19:30:01 <zzo38> My Dungeons&Dragons character has now advanced one experience level up.
19:32:37 <shachaf> zzo38: So now you're zz939?
19:33:24 <zzo38> shachaf: No, my Dungeons&Dragons character is actually named Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe and did not change his name.
19:34:24 <zzo38> I usually use the name Kjugobe, although the DM cannot pronounce either.
19:34:34 <shachaf> > sequence [map pred,map succ,rot13] "Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe"
19:34:36 <lambdabot> ["Htbjpkvuhu\USJitfnad","Jvdlrmxwjw!Lkvhpcf","Vhpxdyjivi Xwhtbor"]
19:35:36 <olsner> Vhpxdyjivi Xwhtbor sounds good
19:35:56 <shachaf> You know what else is a nice name?
19:35:59 <zzo38> The name comes from the following algorithm (I programmed it on my graphing calculator): Roll d6, 1=stop, 2,3=vowel (use d6), 4,5,6=consonant (use d20), and then repeat.
19:36:07 <shachaf> olsner: You should /nick oerjan2
19:36:38 <olsner> shachaf: I am not related to oerjan, so that would be confusing
19:36:55 <shachaf> olsner: You would be if you /nicked oerjan2!
19:37:13 <shachaf> You'd be related by having almost the same nick.
19:37:24 <zzo38> I have 290833 experience points in total, by now.
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19:38:06 <zzo38> What are you trying to calculate?
19:38:42 <olsner> what is the significance of 4951?
19:38:54 <zzo38> There is no inflation involved.
19:39:07 <shachaf> XP used to be worth much more way back when.
19:39:22 <shachaf> DMs just give it out indiscriminately these days. :-(
19:39:24 <zzo38> Are you trying to convert it to a different system?
19:41:19 <olsner> assuming your xp starts at 1, I'd say the inflation-adjusted xp is always 1
19:41:27 <zzo38> No, my XP starts at zero.
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19:41:46 <olsner> oh, ok, I don't know how to deal with zero
19:41:58 <zzo38> Do you know how to divide by zero? It is difficult, because dividing by zero is not allowed.
19:42:45 <zzo38> So you have to use limits and whatever, and to know when it is applicable and not applicable to the calculation.
19:42:58 <olsner> zzo38: yeah, that stuff is tricky
19:42:59 <shachaf> zzo38: I know how to divide by infinitesimals.
19:43:05 <shachaf> Which is basically the same thing.
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19:44:04 <zzo38> In Icosahedral RPG, 1XP is worth ten of D&D3.5e XP, I think.
19:44:23 <fizzie> How much is that in US dollars?
19:44:26 <zzo38> But D&D3.5e is older than Icosahedral RPG, so they aren't always worth more in the past.
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19:44:55 <zzo38> fizzie: I don't know. In gold coins, 1XP (in D&D3.5e) = 5gp, so I don't know what you would convert gold coins to United States currency.
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19:46:39 <fizzie> "5*(1/50 pounds) of gold" W|A €399.79 current commodity price.
19:47:02 <zzo38> But that seems like in euros?
19:47:06 -!- myndzi has joined.
19:47:12 <zzo38> Didn't you want it in US?
19:47:31 <fizzie> Well, close enough. Apparently it's $514.62.
19:47:44 <fizzie> W|A automatically selects currency units by geoip trickery, I believe.
19:48:31 <zzo38> It automatically selects many things by geoip trickery, I think. Will it use geoip to figure out the sunrise/sunset times, and to figure out the hour angle of the sun, and so on?
19:49:14 <zzo38> Does it even deal with hour angle directly, or do you need to convert it from right ascension?
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19:49:40 <fizzie> I haven't tried to ask any astronomical questions about it.
19:50:05 <fizzie> But "sunrise" gives me today's sunrise in Espoo, Finland, which is the city I'm in, at least.
19:50:32 <zzo38> I know right ascension and declination works, although you cannot seem to specify J2000 and so on. In addition, it doesn't seem to work with ecliptic coordinates, except with the very limited query "astrological sign".
19:52:25 <zzo38> (You will get the ecliptic longitude of the sun, but only the sign and not the degrees within the sign; it doesn't seem very useful with such low precision (only 12 slices of the circle), and aren't W|A supposed to be scientific?)
19:55:12 <zzo38> I think it would make more sense to treat "astrological sign" as an angular unit rather than a query in itself (of course it could automatically expand "astrological sign" by itself into "ecliptic longitude of sun in astrological signs", which is what I think it ought to do).
19:58:54 <zzo38> O, and even if you do request astrological signs, it should tell you the degrees past the beginning of the sign, too.
20:00:00 <fizzie> Well, it's a perpetual work-in-progress, I suppose. Maybe some day it will.
20:00:53 <zzo38> Actually I think we should work together to make the FOSS version of a similar thing in Haskell.
20:01:21 <zzo38> Therefore it might start with not quite as good, but eventually becomes much better much quicker.
20:02:36 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:03:17 <fizzie> oerjan: Did you know that if you made a FOSS version of Wolfram|Alpha, but in Haskell, it would quickly be much better than that crippled thing Wolfram has.
20:03:38 <kmc> hasn't someone been working on that for a while
20:03:55 <zzo38> But not right away; it would take some time first, and then it would improve more quickly than Wolfram|Alpha improves.
20:03:57 <oerjan> i think someone made a version of mathematica, and then was hired by wolfram
20:04:10 <kmc> i don't think it matters what language you use here
20:04:29 <kmc> i think most of the value in W|A is in a billion hard-coded special rules for understanding various kinds of data
20:04:37 <zzo38> I don't mean it would quickly become better, I mean it would eventually improve much more quickly, so eventually it probably would be better, at least at some things, if not all.
20:04:46 <kmc> your choice of programming language might make those rules a bit easier to write but it won't mean you magically don't need to write them
20:04:52 <fizzie> kmc: They "curate" it. That's a hip verb nowadays, or so I am to understand.
20:06:03 <zzo38> kmc: Well, yes, you would still need to write it, but with the Haskell it could be made if you have installed it you can enter English queries or you can use Haskell queries within GHCi, or a combination of both, yes you do need some rules for various kinds of data, default units, whatever else, etc
20:06:19 <kmc> yeah everyone and their dog will be banging down your door to write queries in haskell
20:06:54 <fizzie> I asked Wolfram Alpha about Wolfram Alpha, but it just printed some rather banal statistics about wolframalpha.com; daily page views and index page size in KiB and a HTML element hierarchy graph.
20:08:46 <zzo38> kmc: Well, you would need to have GHC installed if you want to write the queries in Haskell codes, but anyone who uses it and does have may find it useful.
20:11:12 <zzo38> And yes I did think I read about it once someone was doing that in Haskell.
20:11:14 <oerjan> zzo38: afaict the basic problem is that to improve faster than WA there need to be enough people able and willing to write queries in haskell to overtake the actual paid Wolfram employees doing the same for WA.
20:11:57 <kmc> but magical haskell magic will make them 1000x more efficient!
20:12:24 <kmc> surely you're not suggesting that some problems are hard or tedious no matter what programming language you use
20:12:34 <zzo38> oerjan: Someone can certainly pay someone if they use the system within their own company, to make improvement, if anyone ever does do for payment.
20:12:54 <zzo38> But some things are hard, regardless of programming language, is the case, anyways.
20:13:16 <kmc> how goes it shachaf
20:14:51 <ion> shalifornia
20:15:13 <shachaf> kmc: This is your last week of not being Old, by the way.
20:17:34 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
20:19:18 <oerjan> `run echo "lambdabot: @tell elliott You can probably do it like this."
20:19:23 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @tell elliott You can probably do it like this.
20:19:41 <shachaf> oerjan: You have a pretty good nick.
20:20:06 <shachaf> But within the confines of IRC you can't do much better than oerjan.
20:20:36 * shachaf should probably do résuméy things. :-(
20:20:40 <shachaf> That's terribly unpleasant.
20:21:02 <oerjan> also i've had the nick oerjan since 1992/1993 or so.
20:21:25 <shachaf> oerjan: That's just around the time I got the nick Shachaf!
20:23:30 <oerjan> or maybe even earlier, come to think of it.
20:23:45 <atriq> Nobody ever calls me atriq.
20:23:56 <atriq> For a start I'd get mixed up with Patrick
20:24:34 <oerjan> i had the username eigil after my mud character initially, i don't remember exactly when i switched.
20:25:11 <oerjan> presumably when i started using the account for mail and/or usenet.
20:25:58 <fizzie> Yes, that was the "hey".
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20:27:11 <kmc> cnegvpx %rax; pshufd
20:27:16 <atriq> !rot13 Phantom_Hoover
20:27:53 <shachaf> Oh, that shuffles 16-bit values?
20:28:34 <zzo38> Do you know where to buy the fast ARMv2 chips?
20:29:49 <zzo38> (rather than the slow ones)
20:30:08 <zzo38> (O, and they should also be RoHS compliant, if that is possible.)
20:31:39 <elliott> <oerjan> `run echo "lambdabot: @tell elliott You can probably do it like this."
20:31:40 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:32:30 <shachaf> elliott: Just imagine oerjan told two bots to each tell two bots to @tell you something.
20:32:36 <shachaf> In the form of a small tree.
20:32:41 <shachaf> Then it would be a four-leaf clever!
20:33:31 <fizzie> pshufd shuffles 32-bit values. packed-shuffle d-oublewords.
20:33:51 <shachaf> Because a "word" is 16 bits.
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20:36:23 <Gregor> !c printf("%d", sizeof "word")
20:37:40 <shachaf> !c printf("@tell elliott oh no :'(")
20:37:43 <EgoBot> @tell elliott oh no :'(
20:38:39 <ion> !c printf("\001ACTION tests\001")
20:38:43 <zzo38> I think you need to put "lambdabot: " at front otherwise there will be zero-width space at front.
20:38:45 <shachaf> Someone tried to get me to get a job in NH the other day.q
20:39:20 <ion> ("boston" `means` "cold")
20:40:47 <oerjan> boston isn't cold. when i was there it was about 30 degrees celsius.
20:41:54 <shachaf> Oh, you went to university in NH, didn't you.
20:43:36 -!- jix has joined.
20:49:21 <shachaf> kmc: 'screen' doesn't support non-BMP codepoints. :-(
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20:51:11 <kmc> they are racist against ancient sumerians and elves and such
20:51:51 <kmc> fuck mathematicians
20:52:37 <kmc> to please mathematicians you have to include codepoints for bold italic fraktur double-strike lower case greek
20:53:20 <shachaf> Is asking for codepoints like "ℂ" too much?
20:53:27 <kmc> unicode has a bunch of copies of the latin and greek alphabets with different font-ish attributes
20:53:30 <shachaf> (That one happens to be BMP.)
20:53:40 <kmc> because while to normal people these are just font distinctions, to a mathematician they are semantically different characters
20:53:46 <shachaf> Bold and italic is silly, but double-struck isn't *that* silly.
20:53:59 <kmc> and so they get different codepoints according to unicode's philosophical notion of what a character is
20:54:13 <kmc> double-struck was invented as a way of writing bold on a blackboard
20:54:26 <kmc> but now we have bold, double-strike, and bold double-strike
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20:54:58 <shachaf> Hmm, there are some great letters here.
20:55:43 <shachaf> What would you have mathematicians do? Use *multi-character identifiers*?
20:56:08 <kmc> nah i'm just on a rant
20:56:18 <kmc> perhaps they could become more like programmers and accept multi-letter identifiers
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20:58:36 <ion> I’d love that.
20:58:51 <ion> They already have sin, cos etc.
20:59:28 <ion> instead of bold double-struck comic sans inverse “s” and “c”.
21:00:06 <shachaf> Oh, man, we need COMIC SANS codepoints.
21:02:44 <kmc> http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/comicsans
21:03:25 <Gregor> * Mathematics using Comic Sans wherever possible
21:03:59 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:05:18 <fizzie> The documentation .pdf is in Comic Sans.
21:05:44 <Gregor> Its example of math in comic sans brings a tear to my eye.
21:11:38 <Gregor> But I am printing that bit and posting it on my cubicle.
21:12:18 <kmc> don't miss page 5
21:14:01 -!- monqy has joined.
21:21:25 * boily foolishly opens the PDF and attempts to read it...
21:22:00 <shachaf> monqy: do you like comic sans
21:22:24 <shachaf> SanDisk should make a music player called Comic Sansa.
21:22:48 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 26 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
21:23:19 <monqy> it's going to get thread killed just watch
21:23:24 <monqy> 14:23:19 <lambdabot> Plugin `tell' failed with: thread killed
21:23:33 <monqy> elliott...........................
21:23:54 <shachaf> monqy: Are they all gone now?
21:28:28 <shachaf> Do you still have to download a .exe and extract the font from it using cabextract?
21:28:35 -!- augur has joined.
21:28:51 <kmc> hey i owned a sansa something or other
21:28:56 <kmc> it was shite until i installed rhythmbox
21:30:06 <oerjan> franz i am, i am franz, do you like comic sans
21:30:38 -!- nooga has joined.
21:30:56 <nooga> i'm writing a C compiler in ruby
21:31:08 <nooga> and you know what? it's quite pleasant
21:31:18 <kmc> better than writing a ruby compiler in C
21:31:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
21:31:36 <nooga> despite the fact that it's terribly wrong and lame
21:31:55 <kmc> does your C compiler have a hip name and a nice looking website full of references to popular internet memes
21:31:55 <Gregor> Writing compilers in high-level languages makes perfect sense…
21:32:12 <kmc> Gregor: you must be a terrible programmer with a small penis
21:32:26 <nooga> i was looking for a good compiler targetting 65c816
21:32:37 <nooga> which I could easily modify
21:32:56 <nooga> and then i just grabbed this: https://github.com/oggy/cast , and started prototyping
21:33:00 <kmc> why 65c816
21:33:07 <nooga> to the point that it actually compiles something
21:33:56 <nooga> http://integratedredstone.wikispaces.com/RedPower+Control
21:34:39 <pikhq> Why not just write Forth?
21:34:51 <oerjan> write forth and multiply
21:34:56 <Gregor> Why not just write Fythe?
21:35:36 <oerjan> wait, that's not an esolang?
21:35:36 <pikhq> Gregor: Sadly, RP doesn't ship with a Fythe interpreter.
21:36:24 <oerjan> oh it's Gregor's, and he even registered an .org domain
21:37:20 <oerjan> "Hamdee Fythe, Real Estate Agent."
21:37:36 <oerjan> a pretty good name, that
21:39:01 * oerjan imagines him being the evil capitalist ruling hexham, montgomery burns style
21:44:32 <nooga> forth is already there
21:44:44 <nooga> i want C cross compiler
21:45:57 <oerjan> "Your program lacks a main function. What a stupid error."
21:46:16 <oerjan> although maybe that would be a cross linker
21:47:05 <nooga> my compiler emits ACME assembly
21:47:18 <nooga> and ACME does not produce linkable objects
21:47:26 <nooga> so linking is... uh
21:47:28 <kmc> firth of forth
21:47:43 <oerjan> does it have a BEEP BEEP instruction
21:48:05 <nooga> no, but it has "halt and catch fire" instruction
21:48:33 <kmc> does it actually
21:48:35 <kmc> catch fire
21:48:43 <nooga> i think i've seen that
21:49:00 <nooga> but since i currently work with the emulator emulator
21:49:13 <kmc> oh, i heard you like emulators!
21:50:23 <nooga> c compiler written in ruby targets a virtual machine running on a virtual machine
21:51:26 <oerjan> <fizzie> Oh, I remember that Powergen Italia page from before, too. <-- XD
21:51:50 <shachaf> nooga: It's like several dozen spoons when all you need is a butter knife.
21:52:04 <nooga> shachaf: but it's fun
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21:57:21 <oerjan> and the spoons aren't even ironic
21:57:31 <shachaf> oerjan: Is the knife ironic?
22:00:30 <nooga> smør is an awesome word, sounds like smar, which means technical lube in Polish
22:01:45 <Sgeo> monqy, elliott arpdoop
22:02:00 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover too
22:02:47 <nooga> i've just accidentally ardpoop
22:06:20 <oerjan> nooga: could be a cognate?
22:10:55 * oerjan hasn't found out how to get good norwegian etymology from the internet yet
22:11:18 <oerjan> for a word that isn't shared with a big language
22:11:38 <zzo38> What is ACME assembly?
22:12:12 <nooga> especially that verb 'smarować' derived from 'smar' is used with both bread and, for example, mechanisms
22:12:41 <oerjan> same with norwegian "smøre"
22:14:20 <ion> > let f 'a' = "rp"; f 'r' = "do"; f 'p' = "op"; f 'd' = "ar"; f 'o' = "pd" in fix (('a':).(f=<<))
22:14:22 <lambdabot> "arpdooparpdpdoprpdooparoparpdopdooparpdpdoprpdopdoprpdooparpdoparpdpdoprpd...
22:15:52 <nooga> i just googled ACME assembler for zzo38 and look: http://www.esw-heim.tu-clausthal.de/~marco/smorbrod/acme/
22:19:24 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: that's dr. turing to you, punk).
22:24:21 <nooga> Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?
22:25:00 -!- ion has set topic: BEWARE THE Ø̈RJANIST MØ̈Ø̈SE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | God made the natural numbers; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki.
22:28:44 * oerjan detects a zero temperature in friday's forecast
22:28:58 <oerjan> i guess this is the end then. no one could possibly survive that.
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