00:11:46 shachaf: people elsewhere are talking about the best bagels in san francisco 00:12:31 apparently http://www.deliboardsf.com/ has secret bagels 00:12:40 which are boiled in new york, baked in SF, and not listed on the menu 00:13:00 On the other hand there's http://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda-weehawken_burrito_tunnel.htm 00:14:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:15:33 Someone asked a question in #clojure about whether the stdlib includes a feature 00:15:52 As far as we can tell, it's both a really bad idea and impossible. But my language would make it possible. 00:16:00 That sort of makes me take pause. 00:17:33 Someone linked to http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/hint.html 00:20:37 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:24:39 Hmm, I think the scoping I have in mind is technically dynamic but with a function to essentially temporarily clear currently bound stuff 00:24:48 http://store.valvesoftware.com/product.php?i=CP201 00:26:01 ++ 00:26:24 Is something like this too ugly? 00:26:28 space gotta go to space 00:26:48 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 00:26:49 (defn foo '[a b c] '(level '(+ a b c))) 00:26:55 In terms of needing that level there? 00:26:59 Wait, hmm 00:27:11 o.O that level is in a very wrong place 00:29:08 is that scheme? 00:29:17 Of course not. 00:29:26 It's Clojure. You don't even need to read it to know that it's Clojure. 00:29:27 oh 00:29:34 The nick is enough. 00:29:43 oh 00:30:13 Not Clojure 00:30:26 It's a variation based on Clojure + Tcl 00:30:33 Unsure how I'm going to deal with lexical scoping 00:31:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:32:40 Is this ugly? 00:32:49 (deflfn '[a b c] '(+ a b c)) 00:32:51 it looks like scheme 00:32:52 Translates to 00:32:54 how could it be ugly 00:33:08 deflfn is a weird word though 00:33:20 (def '(level '(fn '[a b c] '(+ a b c)))) 00:33:59 also for the ioccc link you provided - that looks like it's Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 00:34:09 It occurs to me that defn and anything similar should be providing a name 00:34:18 (def 'foobar '(level '(fn '[a b c] '(+ a b c)))) 00:34:26 (deflfn 'foobar '[a b c] '(+ a b c)) 00:35:49 with LAMBDA as 00, APPLY as 01, ZERO as 10 and ONE MORE THAN as 1 00:38:49 -!- monqy has joined. 00:40:38 I am slowly turning into Gamzee. 00:40:58 That reminds me. Arc_Koen, keep reading Homestuck. 00:41:07 yeah hum maybe 00:41:16 I mean I liked the humour 00:41:25 buuuut it was kind of repetitive and slow 00:41:39 It speeds up 00:53:10 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:02:27 's a shame the mailing list doesn't exist any longer 01:20:14 If I don't have true lexical scoping, but do have an easyish way to effectively say "Hey, consider this a separate scope", is that sufficient for a language to be comfortably usable? 01:21:19 ??? 01:26:20 * Sgeo is suddenly not sure if he's reinventing picolisp or not 01:26:57 Hmm, I'm... not sure 01:27:20 what are you doing and why 01:27:38 monqy: ask not what are you doing and why, but what aren't you doing and why not 01:27:39 Language based off Clojure and Tcl where conditionally printing looks like 01:27:52 (if blah '(println "true") '(println "false")) 01:27:58 For example 01:28:07 Tcl-esque 01:28:30 have fun i guess 01:32:59 why wouldn't you have lexical scoping though 01:33:02 i bet it's a bad reason 01:33:34 "i bet you're a bad person" - "monqy'" 01:33:46 sssh baby steps 01:34:16 monqy: HEY THAT WAS MONQY PRIME 01:34:17 not you 01:34:20 ok? 01:34:40 ok 01:35:37 get it? 01:35:39 got it 01:35:40 good 01:50:42 kmc: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 is a perfectly valid UUID! 01:50:53 It could've come about as random chance. 01:50:54 Stop reading into things. 01:51:43 kmc: So IOCCC 2012 is done. 01:51:51 When's your contest coming along? 01:53:03 shachaf: guaranteed to be chosen at random 01:53:30 oh IOCCC 2012 is done? 01:53:39 i had a good idea for an entry 01:53:41 next year i guess 01:54:17 kmc: http://www.ioccc.org/years.html#2012 01:54:39 18:51 https://raw.github.com/gist/3909430/377bfe9b1a62e1c74acac0ec32ca4261c66379cd/%F0%9D%94%93%F0%9D%94%AF%F0%9D%94%A2%F0%9D%94%A9%F0%9D%94%B2%F0%9D%94%A1%F0%9D%94%A2.hs 01:55:10 ion: Why doesn't that export most of the identifiers? 01:56:19 I forgot. 02:07:47 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:09:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:28:08 -!- jfguest has joined. 02:38:38 -!- jfguest has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:45:39 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 02:46:59 -!- Max00355 has joined. 02:48:15 Is it possible to write to a file with brainfuck? 02:50:11 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:50:16 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:53:09 -!- Max00355 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:02:46 -!- Max00355 has joined. 03:05:31 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:15:47 BACK IN THE DAY, SON, WE DIDN'T HAVE FILES 03:15:54 AND EVERYTHING WAS IN UPPERCASE 03:16:03 BACK IN THE DAY WE DIDN’T HAVE SONS 03:19:51 Max00355, well, you could direct the output of a brainfuck interpreter to a specific file 03:20:06 Or you could use something like PSOX, although I abandoned it before hammering out the file stuff 03:28:42 ion++ 03:28:44 that is amazing 03:30:42 http://i.imgur.com/6QpIO.png 03:31:00 kmc: https://gist.github.com/3909452 03:33:51 nice 03:37:10 Interesting, the gist title was cut off from the first non-BMP character. 03:43:49 Max00355: Brainfuck itself has no particular mechanism for doing so. 03:44:46 that's why you should always use brainfuck implementations where the tape has finite size and the array indexing is not bounds-checked 03:44:52 then you can write to files 03:45:16 now i wanna write a brainfuck JIT spray 03:52:02 So, let me blab about NFU. 03:52:18 NFU is that set theory where comprehension is allowed for any "stratified" formula. 03:53:10 So {x where x = x} is a valid set. It contains everything. {x where {} is a subset of x} contains all sets. {(x,y) where x is a subset of y} is a valid set. 03:53:30 {x where x is not in x} is not a valid set, because "x is not in x" is not a stratified formula. 03:54:33 Stratified comprehension is the bulk of NFU. It has an axiom, the axiom of choice, that is equivalent to a function with a certain property. 03:55:05 Equivalent to the existence of such a function, I mean. 03:55:11 It has another axiom, the axiom of counting, which isn't obviously equivalent to the existence of a function at all. 03:58:04 If S is a set, let Box(S) = {{x} where x in S}. 03:58:19 The axiom of counting states that if S is finite, then S has the same cardinality as Box(S). 04:03:05 The "obvious" way to express that as a function is to say that if S is finite, then there is a bijection between S and Box(S). But that sounds really dangerous. 04:11:47 -!- sivoais has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:12:17 -!- sivoais has joined. 04:16:44 -!- FreeFull has quit. 04:49:45 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 04:51:10 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:56:04 is there pine tar flavored bread in finland 04:58:53 kmc: johnw of #haskell-blah is on the C++ committee, voting on C++14 features. 04:58:57 You're missing the fun. 04:59:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:04:14 jesus 05:04:17 what's new in C++14 05:04:57 Apparently they were voting on "return { 10 };" syntax today. 05:05:39 Which, if your return type is a class, calls the constructor of the class? 05:11:26 Lots of other things. 05:42:34 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://BASICcomic.com). 05:52:28 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 06:00:04 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:51:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 06:51:26 -!- AnotherTest has left. 07:04:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:14:06 -!- Jafet1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:25:28 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:02:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:04:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:10:54 -!- nooga has joined. 08:23:30 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:30:04 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:55:55 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 09:04:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:04:55 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:15:47 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:11:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:21:31 What exactly can brainfuck be used for besides printing out some ASCII characters? 10:23:01 inputting ascii characters 10:23:21 Calculating exciting stuff. 10:23:24 ^pow2 10:23:25 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 32768 65536 131072 262144 524288 1048576 2097152 4194304 8388608 16777216 33554432 67108864 134217728 268435456 536870912 1073741824 2147483648 42949672 ... 10:23:31 See, that's from brainfuck. 10:23:41 Making benchmarks against your new language 10:24:07 Getting brain-bricked, via the "make a derivative language, wait a few seconds" plan. 10:24:50 ^rainbow Not to forget the prettiest rainbows. 10:24:51 Not to forget the prettiest rainbows. 10:26:24 And then there's always the highly vibrant brainfuck adventure game development community. There's Lost Kingdom, and... well, I guess Lost Kingdom. 10:27:41 Can it be modded? 10:28:21 I seem to recall it was mostly automatically generated, so the code isn't perhaps too edit-friendly. 10:28:50 The source is 2189420 bytes long. 10:30:38 I bet most games aren't that big. 10:33:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:57:45 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:57:50 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:59:01 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 11:20:00 -!- atriq has joined. 11:38:38 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 11:43:02 -!- olsner has joined. 12:02:47 -!- boily has joined. 12:09:15 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 12:09:34 hello 12:09:55 Hey 12:10:31 moi 12:10:46 bonjour mein freundes 12:11:00 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:11:18 is this international day or something? 12:11:44 Da. 12:11:49 ad nibelung des moines 12:11:53 Internation indoeuropean day 12:12:08 wow, Chris Pressey's back 12:12:28 and it looks like he wants to make it up for the time he was missing! 12:16:50 "mascarpone" 12:16:59 so that's why someone said "another cheesy language" yesterday 12:17:15 netbsd 6.0 released! 12:23:44 where 12:24:06 In its natural habitat, one hopes. 12:24:08 Back into the wilds of Northern Scotland 12:24:43 atriq: Do you have roaming bands of BSDs in Scotland? 12:25:05 fizzie, nah, they're quite solitary 12:25:23 I'm too far south to get them here, though 12:31:02 northern scotland, or as literally everyone else calls them, the highlands 12:31:39 Is that where the HIGHLANDERS fight? 12:36:57 -!- ais523_ has joined. 12:37:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:40:44 bon matin à tous! I'm wearing my http://www.amazon.com/Save-Planet-Learn-Proto-Indo-European-T-shirt/dp/B0087LFWDY t-shirt today! 12:47:30 fizzie, no, they do that in new york 12:47:52 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 12:59:16 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:16:49 -!- atriq has joined. 13:18:42 -!- elliott has joined. 13:30:57 ais523: ping 13:30:57 elliott: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 13:51:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:10:14 UK court says Apple must now run adverts in major British papers and leave a banner on its website for 6 months saying Samsung isn't a tablet-design copycat. (zdnet.com) 14:10:15 i 14:10:36 [[Apple has lost an appeal against Samsung in the U.K. after the first judge claimed the Galaxy Tab 10.1 could not have infringed the iPad because it wasn't "cool" enough.]] 14:10:37 im 14:12:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:38:36 -!- function has changed nick to constant. 14:41:03 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:53:59 hahaha 14:54:27 wait is this real life you're talking about 14:54:46 Surreal life 14:55:44 i had an english teacher who pronounced surreal 'soor�al' 14:56:15 Soo ray al? 14:58:32 yes 14:58:57 she also pronounced poem 'poeeyem' but that's weirdly common in scotland 15:00:53 Did she pronounce "film" with two syllables? 15:01:15 probably 15:03:30 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:05:27 like "fillem"? 15:05:45 Yes, or "fillum" 15:06:01 nah, that's just you pronouncing fillem wrong! 15:06:06 :P 15:06:24 anyway see you later 15:06:28 See ya 15:06:43 oh and give a look at that mascarpone language it looks great 15:07:03 (was looking for a slightly more expressive adjective than just "great" but hey) 15:07:46 how about "awesome" 15:08:35 there's no page on the wiki. is there any public info floating somewhere on mascarpone? 15:11:13 Possibly the same thing as Emmental, not sure 15:19:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:21:23 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:37:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:38:12 Thinking about Featured Languages 15:41:18 I'm gonna suggest not Underload, because Glass is stack based too 15:41:48 I might put my weight behind Malbolge 15:44:59 It's quite different to Glass and /// 15:45:03 It's got examples 15:45:21 It's got a specification 15:46:46 It's implemented 15:50:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:52:06 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 15:53:45 atriq: are you planning to become an admin 15:53:50 do you want to be in charge of featured languages 15:54:06 I don't know if I can be trusted with the responsibility! 15:54:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:03:06 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:06:24 Do you have a pipe organ? 16:08:33 I do not! 16:08:50 I have an electric keyboard with 2 pipe organ voices, though 16:09:04 atriq: Two???? 16:09:08 Yes 16:09:14 Pipe Organ 1 and Pipe Organ 2 16:09:47 Also, Synth Organ and Jazz Organ 16:12:05 atriq: fancy 16:12:43 atriq: Do they sound different??? 16:12:48 I don't know 16:12:51 I want to hear Pipe Organ 1 and Pipe Organ 2. How do you make two separate pipe organ voices. 16:12:58 how can you not know!! 16:14:05 Well, I suppose they could have different stops, different swell shades, etc 16:14:05 Hmm 16:14:14 Pipe Organ 1 sounds bolder, Pipe Organ 2 more italic 16:14:22 I think that only makes sense for me 16:18:10 atriq: i'm going to have to demand audio here 16:19:00 I'm gonna have to refuse or at least arbitrarily delay 16:21:14 harsh 16:21:20 i will never know the smooth sounds of pipe organ 1 & 2 16:21:24 "More italic", is that like as in the cursive typeface? 16:23:52 fizzie: Hey, how's that thing? 16:25:28 What, what, WHAT. There's no "things". 16:28:44 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:32:55 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:34:02 fizzie: Are you sure?? 16:36:38 -!- mindlessDrone has joined. 16:36:52 hi 16:37:18 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:38:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:38:23 elliott: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-jRj8qXpag#t=1m40s 16:39:36 `welcome mindlessDrone 16:39:48 mindlessDrone: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:41:02 -!- augur has joined. 16:41:22 They tell you that it's the international hub, but really there are only two countries: Hexham and Finland. 16:41:29 (And I'm not Hexhammish!) 16:41:51 Hexland and Finham. 16:46:12 No, some people of esolang are Canada, too. 16:47:05 Some people of esolang are *alleged* to be Canada. 16:47:14 (Innocent until proven guilty and all that.) 16:47:34 zzo38: What is there in Canada, really, once you take out the Hexham and the Finland? 16:50:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:50:27 shachaf: Canada. 17:04:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:13:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:14:02 hello 17:17:24 -!- atriq has joined. 17:18:10 fizzie, yes 17:20:13 -!- atriq has quit (Client Quit). 17:22:12 I'd ask how it translates to sound, but I might not want to hear the answer. 17:27:06 I'm in England but not Hexham 17:27:38 OMG this is a programming language? I thought this is hardcore esoteric like walking over water 17:27:58 I can walk in water 17:28:06 And over water if there is a bridge or something 17:28:16 ^^ 17:29:02 Can you walk on water if frozen to make ice? 17:29:27 I'm back from lunch and what do I know? people here doubting my canadianness. 17:29:57 mindlessDrone: What did you want about walking over water, anyways? 17:30:27 Esolang is not in itself a programming language, but rather involves prorgamming language; see wiki for information 17:30:49 don't know ..i want to know how jesus may felt 17:31:50 try nailing yourself to some wood 17:32:00 xD 17:32:32 i try to read the wiki ..but its so much text ... 17:34:18 It is supposed to be so much text ... 17:35:30 zzo38: No, I slip 17:39:04 -!- oklofok has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:40:37 There's that thing. 17:41:16 http://dsc.discovery.com/gear-gadgets/man-attempts-walking-across-sea-in-a-human-sized-hamster-wheel-photos.html 17:41:22 That thing, maybe that's a bit Jesusy. 17:41:33 I mean, kind of, sort of. 17:42:26 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:42:37 awesome 17:43:21 And anyway wasn't he a carpenter's son or something? I mean, adopted, if you can call it that. I'm sure he could've fiddled together something like that. 17:44:05 Maybe a slightly more creakier version but still. 17:47:33 sure ..sounds plausible 17:48:05 -!- nortti has changed nick to []{}\|-_`^. 17:48:10 It is also possible that they mistaken him, they misremembered, they added the walking on water for metaphorical purposes, and various other things, including but not limited to, divine magic 17:48:53 -!- []{}\|-_`^ has changed nick to nortti. 17:51:36 a german comedian once sayed "maybe he was just buying water" because in german buying and walking are rhyming 17:52:35 indeed. 17:53:28 -!- WeThePeople_ has joined. 17:57:07 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:00:02 FreeFull: Um... 18:00:07 England is *in* Hexham. 18:00:39 -!- nortti has changed nick to ^[. 18:00:51 nortti has escaped the dungeons of doom. 18:01:02 <^[> :P 18:01:25 Many electronic piano/synthesizer have only a few fixed settings and cannot be changed much, sometimes there are a few possibilities. 18:01:35 -!- WeThePeople_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:02:00 zzo38: http://ampnoise.com/mp3/MusicOnThePDP-1X_Pinafore.mp3 18:02:25 -!- ^[ has changed nick to [-]. 18:02:36 -!- [-] has changed nick to ^[. 18:02:52 I wrote on paper some 32 byte registration of digital synthesizer, including FM section, additive section, square section, saw/triangle section, organ section, percussion section, and global section. 18:04:10 -!- ^[ has changed nick to nortti. 18:06:16 And then you can have multiple manuals, each with their own registration, and pedalboard, as well as other pedals and other controls 18:07:16 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:12:45 hmm, I think I hit my personal record for getting a Slashdot post modded up to +5 18:12:48 it was less than 5 minutes 18:12:56 (second post on an article about a court case, linking to the verdict) 18:17:34 wow, I'm already old enough to have difficulty comprehending just how fast computer storage is increasing 18:17:49 you can get a 64GB SD card for a reasonably affordable price, for insance 18:17:52 *instance 18:18:20 I grew up with floppy disks (5¼" were the most common when I started using computers, but 3½" were the first I really started using) 18:19:09 I never ued a 5¼" floppy disk. :-( 18:19:24 that was before I started using PCs 18:19:24 But I remember 3½" fondly, of course. 18:19:33 SD cards don't freak me out as much as microSD cards. Aren't those up to at least 32G now too? 18:19:47 * shachaf has a 32GB microsd card. 18:19:58 PCs were quite common when I was young, but didn't have anywhere near the market share they do nowadays 18:20:03 It used to be in my phone but now my phone doesn't have a microsd slot. 18:20:05 That gives me the shivers. 18:20:36 fizzie: You can get 64GB microsd these days. 18:20:53 That's, like, double-shivers. 18:21:04 It's the size of a fingernail. 18:21:08 my primary school used primarily Acorn computers, together with some BBC Micros 18:22:24 The "parallel class" (not sure what's the term; same grade, a different group) in primary school had a PC. We were kinda jealous. 18:22:27 I don't like SD card much, though, especially the small ones which don't have a write protect switch. 18:22:40 (On the other hand, we took more class trips.) 18:23:01 Their PC ran Windows 1.02; this was in the higher grades. 18:23:21 Hmm, 32gb microsd is down to $20. 18:23:29 the computers in my secondary school were PCs, mostly running Windows 95; some were on Windows 3.11, and they upgraded to 98 after a while 18:23:53 They also had a directory with "high-ascii" (sorry for the misnomer) characters in it, with Leisure Suit Larry 1 (I think) and some other games hidden in it. 18:24:07 See, the teachers couldn't get in there. 18:24:31 i used a bbc micro in playschool 18:24:33 pretty sure it was obsolete then 18:24:39 elliott: it probably would have been 18:24:41 You had to memorize the numbers to type with alt-NNN. One of them was the empty space, too. 18:24:43 since this was like late 90s-early 2000s :P 18:24:47 about the time I finished secondary school, they decided to get rid of their BBC Micros 18:24:54 so they sold them to their students for £20 each 18:25:03 in year 1 or so we had an acorn(!!) 18:25:04 we bought one and played with it for a while; I learned 6502 asm on it 18:25:14 BBC Micro? That sounds like the future. 18:25:21 the B and Y keys were broken, but that wasn't impossible to deal with 18:25:31 because function keys were rebindable 18:25:33 Then they installed that Windows 1, and the MS-DOS Executive let you navigate to any directory. It was a problem. 18:25:51 you could get the B via copying-and-pasting from the "BBC" tagline it printed when it loaded 18:25:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:26:10 for Y you had to write a short BASIC program 18:26:15 oh right, I presumably even knew the Micro was obsolete, since I got a computer before then... 18:26:18 Sounds like an esolang. 18:26:21 (it ran windows 3.11) 18:26:27 shachaf: it wouldn't be a very good one 18:26:32 (did you know: windows 3.11 is not very good) 18:26:43 HEY 18:26:44 HEY 18:26:47 Windows 3.11 is awesome. 18:26:50 elliott: I actually enjoyed 3.1, it did what it was intended to do quite well 18:26:50 ais523: how long did it take you to relearn how to type on a keyboard with b and y where they are rather than on the fkey row 18:26:52 didn't use 3.11 18:26:57 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/Interface_age_scan_nov_1983_p30_bbc_micro_ad.jpg 18:26:57 elliott: not very long, actually 18:27:07 I'm quite used to keys changing places when I move to a different keyboard 18:27:08 Same school where I was called to the principal's office, which was a bit worrisome, but then they just had printer problems. 18:27:10 Gregor: i used windows 3.11 when i was 3, i'm the expert 18:27:14 That looks pretty great. 18:27:19 elliott: I did too, I think! 18:27:24 fizzie: heh, I only got called to the headteacher's office when they wanted to reward me 18:27:29 the punishment was mostly done by other people 18:27:44 shachaf: that sounds unlikely 18:27:50 shachaf: well I guess you aren't that much older than me 18:27:58 I'm pretty sure I did. 18:27:59 and also windows 95 had been out for a few years by the time i got that thing anyway 18:46:12 -!- mindlessDrone has left. 18:59:36 Also remember not to SMARTDRV your Windows 3.1 system disk, because it will cause the loader to just eat a chunk of the Windows logo and choke. 18:59:51 Not SMARTDRV. 18:59:58 What's the online disk compression tool. 19:00:19 DBLSPACE, I mean. 19:01:03 (You can certainly SMARTDRV it.) 19:02:36 Apparently it's a valid configuration if you jump through the right hoops. 19:02:39 Didn't work out for me, though. 19:04:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:04:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:04:43 smartdrv was the disk cache thing? 19:05:35 Yes. 19:05:53 Doublespace played all kinds of weird tricks with hidden volumes called h: and whatnot. 19:07:43 Also loadlin, that's so nifty. My first dual-boot box had its dual-boot done by keeping DOS in the MBR, then using the fancy DOS 6 [menu] menuitem boot menu things to automagically blarp with loadlin. 19:08:22 loadlin is cool 19:08:22 And umsdos, isn't that even niftier? I think I had a slackware umsdos installation. 19:08:27 (Then it went bork.) 19:08:33 what's umsdos 19:09:23 It's the thing that lets you put Unixy things like uids and gids into a plain directory of a FAT filesystem, so that you can have your root in C:\LINUX. 19:09:55 It puts the extra data into a FAT file called --LINUX-.---. 19:10:09 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:10:23 Then you can go peek at your /etc as C:\LINUX\ETC\ in DOS land. 19:10:36 And of course ruin everything if you mess with things there too much. 19:11:16 Goes well with loadlin: no partitioning, no boot loader messing-up-with, no nothing. You just enter the drag^HLinux from dos. 19:11:40 I suppose compared to ext2 there might have been some slight performance issues maybe. 19:15:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:25:15 Try Jumping http://youtu.be/VSttd3edW98 19:29:11 fizzie: drag^HLinux = draLinux? 19:29:46 Uh, ^W. 19:30:19 (Though "draLinux" doesn't sound like an unreasonable name for a distribution.) 19:30:22 I was trying to find info on this draLinux on google 19:30:28 -!- AnotherTest1 has joined. 19:30:32 I found nothing 19:30:42 The rules state you must now make it. 19:31:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:31:39 fizzie: good. I had no name for my distro 19:33:21 fizzie: should I use 2.4 kernels so I could use umsdos? 19:38:47 -!- AnotherTest1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 19:39:14 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:39:20 I, uh. I wouldn't, but you are certainly free to. 19:40:11 ok. I'm going to use mastodon linux as a starting point 19:40:44 hmm… YouTube top comment is a warning not to read the rest of the comments 19:40:49 YouTube's self-awareness is scary sometimes 19:41:04 I read the first page of actual comments, they mostly just said that the comments were fine again now 19:41:11 lol 19:42:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:42:37 Don’t you dare offer free education to our residents! http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/minnesota-gives-coursera-the-boot-citing-a-decades-old-law/40542 Meanwhile: http://www.startribune.com/business/164349766.html 19:45:35 I wonder how well modern linux software will work with gcc 2.95 and libc4 19:45:56 2.95 might work. 19:46:03 Actually. 19:46:06 Depends on the program. 19:46:15 Some stuff will work just fine, some stuff depends on C99. 19:46:26 and libc4? 19:46:34 Same issue. 19:46:40 C99 libc. 19:46:46 Also pthreads. 19:46:51 linux 2.0 :D 19:46:51 if you are using gcc 2.95 and libc4 then presumably you are enough of a neo-luddite to not want to use modern linux software 19:47:15 Linux 2.6.0 is the first (official, stable) version of Linux where you can have correct pthreads. 19:47:29 And 2.4.0 is the first where you can have threads that almost work if you squint. 19:47:32 (IIRC) 19:47:40 I'll use 2.4 then 19:47:56 (pssst, you want to use musl) 19:48:15 but why? 19:48:19 :P 19:48:38 LinuxThreads/libc5 was a working combination for threads, at least, pre-NPTL. I don't quite know about libc4 and threads. 19:48:51 fizzie: Very non-conformant though. 19:48:58 and musl doesn't build with 2.95 if I remember correctly 19:49:03 POSIX, schmosix. 19:49:06 +gcc 19:49:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:49:46 as if any of the programs using threads are correct enough that you could tell that the thread implementation is broken 19:50:17 I am still not sure if I want to make draLinux a serious distro or not 19:50:36 fizzie: Each thread in LinuxThreads has a different pid. 19:50:44 ugh 19:50:50 that. is. horrible 19:50:50 This isn't a *subtle* non-conformance error, it's a Big one. 19:50:55 why? 19:51:41 wait. is thread implementation part of kernel or part of libc on linux? 19:52:00 Part of libc, *but* with some support needed from the kernel. 19:52:10 hmm 19:52:22 2.4 doesn't support the flag for clone that indicates the new process needs the same PID as the parent. 19:53:01 patch it 19:53:04 ksplice it 19:53:10 Can we make the Imakuni?'s card in Dungeons&Dragons game? 19:53:21 should it be hard to fix? I have not really poked anything newer than linux 0.2 19:53:39