< 1350691509 107443 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Therefore if F' is right-Lobachevsky then |Σ| ≅ ℵ₀. By Newton's theorem, if Darboux's criterion applies then I < Γ'. So ζ is conditionally Erdős." < 1350691541 785802 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1350691550 379264 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thatsmathematics.com/blog/archives/102 < 1350691720 271637 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1350691744 748828 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350692156 849191 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1350693599 793868 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350694501 949776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My program needs to run efficiently. My program is running more efficiently than I expect with my algorithm, which is horribly inefficient. My program is giving wrong results some, but not most, of the time. < 1350694547 995505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350694818 477858 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1350695181 589718 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed the code to be in line with my mental algorith, < 1350695184 314681 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :algorithm < 1350695189 941687 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting out of memory errors < 1350695487 41714 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350695578 244194 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figured out a new algorithm < 1350695589 991231 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps bonghits will fix your out of memory errors < 1350695763 518723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION must be missing something there.
< 1350695943 46619 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Looney Tunes Show 1x22 finally gets to Looney Tunes levels of drag. < 1350696081 466281 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing what < 1350696086 530790 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does Gregor have voice < 1350696092 978775 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought #esoteric was a classless society < 1350696108 182667 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Looks like it's a reference to a git commit involving Radeon? < 1350696140 767619 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reference to http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity490.html < 1350696176 701521 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have +v because I'm SPECIAL. < 1350696187 452527 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dangit, it's not fast enough, I think < 1350696325 841664 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's annoying that using an iterable in Python permanently mutates/consumes it < 1350696471 200178 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goatkcd.com/1123/sfw nsfw < 1350696568 521661 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I've yet to click on any of these links. < 1350696585 310585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm vaguely curious what happens to a one-panel comic, but not enough to click. < 1350696609 967912 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens in what sense < 1350696633 201742 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know! < 1350696649 442660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.ezyang.com/2012/10/duality-for-haskellers/ < 1350696743 313703 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is annoying; on the other hand, reasoning about space usage would be harder were it not the case, I think < 1350696784 124347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's already harder with lists in Haskell! < 1350696823 21896 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing... code... is harder < 1350696853 723963 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have screwed up my ability to write imperative code. < 1350696893 111549 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks < 1350696901 378423 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing imperative code is an important skill in any language < 1350696927 295909 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily any < 1350696947 498979 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's important depends not on the language but on the problem you're trying to solve < 1350696998 445157 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem I'm trying to solve tends to be the language not supporting functional idioms sufficiently < 1350696998 842965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's tautological < 1350697089 800060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tautologies tend to be. < 1350697440 755504 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe you < 1350697466 541093 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are just doing toy functional programming exercises, you will need imperative style some of the time < 1350697497 369040 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like Haskell not because it's OMG HARDCORE PURE FP, but because it actually supports imperative programming in a good way, a way which makes sense to people who understand FP too < 1350697526 303990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you know for every person who understands the IO monad there are 50 beginners talking about how pure the factorial function is and how it's going to destroy imperative programming next year < 1350697530 955088 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION semi-coherent rant
< 1350697548 499200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand why you are making lots of assumptions about what i meant < 1350697590 623105 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not assuming < 1350697596 469416 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ranting off what Sgeo said < 1350697600 987805 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't "coalgebroid" a great word? < 1350697606 690403 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1350697612 787473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1350697616 752780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were replying to my statement < 1350697627 439807 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: What about "iggrammatical"? < 1350697629 497026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the only reason he needs imperative programming is "the language not supporting functional idioms sufficiently" < 1350697632 775447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I disagree with " unless you are just doing toy functional programming exercises, you will need imperative style some of the time", at least philosophically < 1350697648 399872 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is a pragmatic statement, not a philosophical one < 1350697668 672673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i sort of disagree with it pragmatically too < 1350697669 909478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :see also: FRP still doesn't work < 1350697678 411151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are FRP libs that are mature enough for doing fairly involved stuff < 1350697680 302319 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pragmatist in our midst! < 1350697682 734730 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe it started working in the past year and nobody told me < 1350697688 445466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what you mean by "doesn't work" < 1350697689 268012 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well, I don't have an issue when I need to write imperative code to handle imperative things, it's just imperative code when I know more functional languages have function idioms for those htings < 1350697691 659355 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1350697695 643383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know of any major problems with reactive-banana/reactive-banana-wx? < 1350697695 885696 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see < 1350697701 188913 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes more snense < 1350697704 737025 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I understand those idioms and their use sufficiently well) < 1350697705 184292 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, i haven't used them at all < 1350697709 506284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of any semantic glitches it has, performance seems good... < 1350697718 866385 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never tried doing FRP because everyone talked about how half-baked it was < 1350697721 301036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that may be out of date < 1350697722 410854 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what *doesn't* work is one frp framewotk to rule them all, yet < 1350697724 979224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*framework < 1350697730 177948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are tradeoffs still < 1350697744 886608 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not entirely comfortable with the idea of monad transformers to represent an entire running program's state+everything < 1350697750 243326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, I still think you can write a good amount of stuff without resorting to imperative programming right now < 1350697755 82556 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So more willing to do that stuff imperatively < 1350697759 61256 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know who's "cool"? < 1350697823 440562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think part of kmc's point is that "resorting to imperative programming" assumes that "imperative" is always the worst way to express something. < 1350697833 164832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas in practice it can the clearest way to express your intent. < 1350697847 18952 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I'm not kmc so I shouldn't say what his point is.) < 1350697899 400597 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes to be militantly anti-imperative as a general policy; that means I have to try hard to show to myself that imperative programming *isn't* the best way to express any given thing.
< 1350697904 926272 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is good, because the results are sometimes insightful. < 1350697908 246805 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, only occasionally.) < 1350697950 225158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Right, sometimes "your intent" is the thing that's misguided, and learning to "figure out what your intent really is" is one of the values of learning Haskell and such things. < 1350697960 638215 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes not. < 1350698021 923444 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think "functional" and "imperative" is a bad choice of terms < 1350698025 625269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think imperative programming often seems like the right choice just because of the baggage of the systems we use (like Unix)... obviously that means it *is* the right choice in practice, but I think it tends to not be inherent to the problem. < 1350698031 977037 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think things should be more "denotational" < 1350698036 39267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :See also: strings as a nearly-useless data type. < 1350698036 269916 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe "declarative" < 1350698038 908062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Booleans too, to some degree.) < 1350698045 941450 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :imperative programming could be made more denotational and declarative < 1350698047 802392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Conal, is that you? < 1350698052 467148 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is a small step in that direction < 1350698068 330273 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget if I decided strings have any value. < 1350698070 197145 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think I didn't. < 1350698075 179313 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote stark < 1350698075 348580 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AlanPerlis says: The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information. < 1350698087 461363 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's wrong with strings and booleans? < 1350698103 290179 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google boolean blindness < 1350698104 907421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://existentialtype.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/boolean-blindness/ < 1350698105 83299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Boolean Blindness « Existential Type < 1350698107 193472 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google string sightlessness < 1350698108 762801 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/strike+sightless < 1350698108 847977 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: strike sightless legal definition of strike sightless. strike sightless synonyms ... < 1350698109 217974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The former is useless; the latter is harmless. < 1350698112 773726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1350698114 306425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The former is useless; the latter is harmful. < 1350698118 636811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the former is often harmful too. < 1350698126 227984 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is [Bool] useless or harmful? < 1350698129 791709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://existentialtype.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/boolean-blindness/ is a good description of the problems with booleans, yes. < 1350698135 507447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yarmful. < 1350698282 298615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I guess booleans are better than strings. < 1350698290 489039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can take them as configuration and that's not as bad as it could be. < 1350698292 653166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's still bad. < 1350698301 22292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even configuration usually wants its own types. < 1350698323 94769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I prefer the strings "true" and "false". < 1350698391 160142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you see the lens slides? < 1350698396 779371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or elliott, or whoever else. < 1350698405 357936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Does Clojure have lenses? < 1350698408 946622 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1350698428 85576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :What slides? < 1350698446 818087 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. I wanted to write a lens library once. But whenever I try to describe them to #clojure, they don't see the value. < 1350698448 923208 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bahaskell/YifnIpEu2OY/kddoyuvdCOMJ < 1350698478 579142 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops. < 1350698488 716534 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, no oops. < 1350698491 166873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :noops < 1350698505 870845 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no operations < 1350698518 971809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ooperations < 1350698548 814203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_____Hoover: I define a new language as follows: < 1350698560 567049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program is composed of the character < > - + [ ] , . < 1350698564 337934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any other character is illegal. < 1350698572 160600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The characters < > - + [ ] , . are all nops. < 1350698933 552422 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interpreter in your new language: ++[->.<<[-,<+>++]] < 1350698941 303105 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A quine: < 1350698974 888313 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1350698999 124657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I guess I should introduce v2.0 of the language. < 1350699006 730408 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1350699008 880410 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :v2.0 disallows the []s to be balanced. < 1350699106 432179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : A program is composed of the character < > - + [ ] , . < 1350699110 20072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a character < 1350699110 875780 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is my quine legal in v2.0? < 1350699142 522187 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I met < > - + [ ] , . once. Great character. < 1350699170 61175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is in UNICODE VERSION 7 < 1350699235 142797 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should make a unicode glyph that consists of a table of all unicode glyphs. < 1350699500 489802 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including itself, obviously. < 1350699663 216974 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea is programming using the linear logic, with additive conjunction, multiplicative conjunction, additive dusjunction, multiplicative dusjunction, and other stuff like "!" and so on, you can encode intuitionistic logic in linear logic using "!" so perhaps if you have a category, you can make "!" like a comonad for using ordinary functions? (Like you use "Cont" monad in Haskell to make continuations) < 1350699690 171620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: cmccann in #haskell is all about linear logic, I hear. < 1350699955 880550 :Max00355!~Max00355@pool-71-187-70-92.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1350700642 421132 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1350700676 940095 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1350700937 73957 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-159.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350702882 879907 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350703668 977690 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat < 1350703674 181281 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm lolling < 1350703691 889916 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that talk is brilliant. < 1350703920 788039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you know how wayland+xwayland compares in binary size to x11 right now < 1350703924 782260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have actual reasons for asking this < 1350704127 695372 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what causes the overhead when running OpenGL programs with Compiz? They run much smoother without compositing. One would think a single extra pass through render-to-texture wouldn’t cause anything noticeable by itself. < 1350704160 164732 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose Wayland is more efficient at that. < 1350704349 565587 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1350704513 559135 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because compiz < 1350704565 216084 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :jafet: Another OpenGL compositor on X.org might not have the issue? < 1350704638 881759 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any other? < 1350704671 547348 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hypothetical one < 1350704691 494628 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. are you saying the problem is in Compiz, not X.org? < 1350704801 585680 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Compiz has many problems. < 1350705657 736609 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you tell Mozilla to load the entire text first before loading images and CSS? < 1350708516 398798 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1350708778 99053 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :colon colon one y'all < 1350708789 604376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: lolcathost? < 1350708794 789127 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessss < 1350708822 547285 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :- if ((request.META['REMOTE_ADDR'] != '127.0.0.1') < 1350708822 761015 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ if ((request.META['REMOTE_ADDR'] not in ('127.0.0.1', '::1')) < 1350708836 160751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's 127.0.0.2 < 1350708852 840299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you know you can drop octets from an IP address and it fills them in according to some complicated pattern? < 1350708869 223257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.b.d -> a.b.0.d < 1350708921 536074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(d can be a number up to 256^2, in which case it also works for c.) < 1350708945 354556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you can use 0x or 0 for any octet. < 1350709123 164305 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody happen to know what a "two-way server" is? < 1350709143 784372 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :far as i can tell it's an obscure term for either dual core or dual processor < 1350709145 958796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1350709149 58990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :|O| < 1350709154 474956 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do it? < 1350709164 883291 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : \ o / < 1350709264 75103 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, it's offline still < 1350709266 229581 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :( < 1350709516 785877 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah people say "four-way SMP" and such < 1350709528 954442 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably does not distinguish dual core and dual socket < 1350709536 149098 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk < 1350709545 18633 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure he meant multi processor specifically < 1350709553 333152 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usage was real weird < 1350709563 271094 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in some cases "multi processor" might also include multi core < 1350709566 254492 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :also apparently if you replace a dual-core system you should get a new dual-core system < 1350709569 67313 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric ::facepalm: < 1350709573 158865 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1350709589 337744 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you first said "two-way server" i thought of http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/1UTwin.cfm < 1350709613 582725 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, just editing some technical articles < 1350709619 873482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : m o m < 1350709620 423795 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is two independent servers in a 1U case < 1350709626 707382 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1350709628 282515 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the guy doing the writing here ... apparently doesn't know jack < 1350709631 360478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do it, myndzi? < 1350709631 619141 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they also have 4 servers in a 2U case < 1350709637 397442 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said.. it's offline, sorry < 1350709644 534508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's what you meant. < 1350709645 869353 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: thanks :) < 1350709652 307219 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1350709655 927798 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah, my work comp and laptop are up atm < 1350709656 522504 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1350709659 493116 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not my home desktop < 1350709665 159990 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hesktop < 1350709818 185670 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not quite as dense as blades, but it's probably a better deal if you only need a few of them < 1350710013 736654 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to smartctl, my hard drive has spent 20 billion years with the head flying < 1350710084 832730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of years. < 1350710096 755387 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 billion years isn't cool, though. < 1350710118 89502 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 20 trillion years? < 1350710123 352181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now *that's* cool. < 1350710128 668760 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently seagate drives just report nonsense to smartctl for fun < 1350710129 270043 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/Seagate_SER_RRER_HEC.html < 1350710136 734598 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLYING THROUGH SPACE AND TIME < 1350710140 936747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I,I 32-bit integers aren't cool. You know what's cool? 42-bit integers. < 1350710208 942221 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. N-bit integers where N is a non-integer computable is cool. < 1350710224 835293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i think you could get a good 3 to 4 rants out of this tweet https://twitter.com/ryah/status/258634435161899009 < 1350710239 483413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know node.js has such a sound engineer behind it < 1350710250 33438 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350710256 652932 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(haha @ implication that "C/C++" (haha @ that too) isn't "legacy bullshit" also) < 1350710263 450221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(haha @ @) < 1350710264 548906 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet fuck. < 1350710267 522333 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. By "interesting" do they mean "interesting + likely to be widely used"? < 1350710275 334649 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, technically C++ is "interesting". < 1350710281 784450 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350710292 797879 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C/C++ < 1350710295 886129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :& then: < 1350710296 342912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/ryah/status/258635644681728000 < 1350710297 474207 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It teaches how not to design a programming language by example. < 1350710306 413974 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/ryah/status/258635662587199489 < 1350710306 781056 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/ryah/status/258635676726218752 < 1350710324 535225 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sads
< 1350710332 873349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason given. At all. < 1350710334 109834 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: hello < 1350710338 229737 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey sgeo how's your clojure without lexical scoping going < 1350710342 301028 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this is such transparent trolling < 1350710345 395522 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give him a very slight bit of credit: Rust actually appears interesting. < 1350710353 108117 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't really work myself up over it < 1350710372 990029 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i heard C++ is for fat people < 1350710376 859613 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy, on hold while I try to determine if it actually would be better than Kernel < 1350710381 686428 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1350710408 725974 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could accomplish more or less the same thing with Kernel's eval, I think < 1350710415 796471 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope that sometime near the end of The Office (US), the characters suddenly become aware of the fact that Kevin has gradually developed a severe cognitive impairment over the past decade, and find this profoundly disturbing < 1350710424 819913 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not the same exact thing, but similarish enough, I think < 1350710454 935188 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, does Kernel have quasiquoting? I vaguely remember "no", but not sure. < 1350710470 103819 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember < 1350710474 825237 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the answer is "no", who do I have to slap < 1350710477 858701 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you asking about the `(a b) concrete syntax < 1350710493 256801 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or about the quasiquote special form < 1350710494 46538 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1350710506 726223 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably quasiquote wouldn't be a sepecial form, just an operative you can define yourself < 1350710517 891948 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not super useful for the kernel way of doing things < 1350710519 38843 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, `(a b) concrete syntax would be nice, preferably translating into a particular set of operatives < 1350710532 134844 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume `x would be sugar for (quasiquote x) as in scheme < 1350710537 850969 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ,x for (unquote x) < 1350710541 919257 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1350710553 632894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`,@x < 1350710558 458550 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Distinctly different from the Common Lisp style things of not actually having a concrete translation < 1350710562 639823 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ,@x: not found < 1350710572 92313 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway quasiquote is not that useful for writing operatives, but it might sometimes be useful to use traditional lisp-ish macros in kernel < 1350710581 968449 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it should be easy to implement defmacro as an operative < 1350710595 267045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if there is some kind of "quasieval" syntax you could define, to make writing operatives nicer < 1350710652 710653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well, I more wanted to emulate Tcl-style commands, but with quasiquoting, since Tcl doesn't have nice quasiquoting syntax built-in and that sucks < 1350710686 355407 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define list (vau xs env (if (nil? xs) nil (quasieval env (cons ,(car xs) ,(cdr xs)))))) < 1350710709 677802 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> (define list (vau xs env (if (nil? xs) nil (cons (eval env (car xs)) (eval env (cdr xs)))))) < 1350710729 151607 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :awkward to use ` because you need to put the env parameter somewhere < 1350710854 271824 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/ryah/status/258665167934611457 < 1350710861 863618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1350710875 824935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know his problem is uninteresting < 1350710953 742067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ais523: you might like: http://www.ioccc.org/2012/tromp/hint.html < 1350710963 183510 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He could at least acknowledge that without PL research, he'd be stuck writing code in .... I'm not even sure < 1350710964 847865 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: stop trolling by proxy < 1350710985 558308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: My friend said that trolling by proxy is fun but I don't believe him. < 1350710985 642485 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL? < 1350710985 813056 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys my cousin's barber says haskell causes aids < 1350710991 817417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I show him the error of his ways? < 1350711027 450499 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Machine code. < 1350711041 170935 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He should write all his code in 0s and 1s from now on. < 1350711060 248982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what is #esoteric fo rthen < 1350711068 252451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not crap < 1350711076 629247 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly elliott. #esoteric is for trolling directly, not by proxy. < 1350711083 615992 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But we shouldn't troll kmc, or he might leave. :-( < 1350711090 472779 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming community full of anti-intellectual blowhards; film at 11 < 1350711091 134537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on < 1350711101 513568 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually though i have violated my own rule about the word 'community' < 1350711102 864903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is art to dismiss list but talk about scheme-relative JS as interesting and innovative and not legacy crap < 1350711104 136316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lisp < 1350711105 639421 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what to call that community < 1350711119 589124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was trying to rile plt people up i couldn't do it so well < 1350711121 279873 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacker news jackoff community < 1350711143 117073 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'll be stuck either looking for bugs in Mosh or not talk to kmc! < 1350711167 734131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dread the day when the startup i'm working for now gets posted to hacker news < 1350711184 529456 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is it still a secret what it does? < 1350711189 504760 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1350711197 170486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not the interesting kind of secret < 1350711197 941089 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1350711205 248643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is working on bombs < 1350711217 462207 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're making a useful product, but it's not like ksplice where it's going to blow your mind that it's even possible < 1350711224 552032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is working on stealth bombers. < 1350711227 765368 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1350711235 695288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why his startup is in Stealth Mode. < 1350711237 512079 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ksplice didn't really surprise me < 1350711240 282955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1350711243 657866 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am too ... anti-jaded < 1350711249 104073 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1350711269 51164 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really surprised that it worked as a research project < 1350711282 280375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the hard part < 1350711285 280549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you send it off to the engineers < 1350711287 270291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they ruin it < 1350711296 985163 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am very impressed that they managed to make a commercial product that was deployed on 200,000+ machines and crashed almost none of them < 1350711313 344119 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there were 2 years of work in between those two stages < 1350711343 850016 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I,I deployed on ℵ₁ machines and crashed almost none of them < 1350711347 747638 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1350711352 340348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a countable number! < 1350711354 788824 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that alef or math alef? < 1350711360 855821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :2135 ALEF SYMBOL [ℵ] < 1350711370 512787 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one puts you in RTL mode, which is annoying. < 1350711373 319783 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or blackboard bold script italic math alef < 1350711373 892437 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1350711396 162530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But on the other hand I have to type in the codepoint instead of switching my keyboard to Hebrew mode.) < 1350711411 411445 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: whoa, dude, Unicode has codepoints for letters + nikud! < 1350711416 51366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it just had combining nikud. < 1350711417 43343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make up a chess variant having googolplex number of kind of pieces. I already wrote of some idea of such things. < 1350711433 952943 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There are various things I dislike about Unicode < 1350711435 169129 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there continuouschess < 1350711443 2312 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous chess* < 1350711447 123304 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should get a new spacebar
< 1350711449 108959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuous chess got made up in here once < 1350711450 394268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went badly < 1350711455 210123 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, "almost"? < 1350711458 370340 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was continuous < 1350711462 835010 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :piece position or also identity? < 1350711464 466535 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the board < 1350711472 403335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly the problem is that you can't express the moves you want to make < 1350711474 549558 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should try continuous chess
< 1350711476 58039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :1EE00 ARABIC MATHEMATICAL ALEF [] < 1350711482 949420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i think the pieces might have been continuous too < 1350711485 343335 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly i do not remember < 1350711485 631442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an ARABIC MATHEMATICAL ALEF but no HEBREW MATHEMATICAL ALEF?! < 1350711499 277821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical elf < 1350711509 757426 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did rooks and bishops have a facing direction < 1350711518 279084 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea is to make up a description of googolplex number of variants all at once < 1350711523 99242 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't it, is it? < 1350711523 731976 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.chessvariants.org/other.dir/continuouschess.html < 1350711525 907430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you know Gess? < 1350711527 836323 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says created 2001 < 1350711529 384118 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1350711531 560214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chess" played on a Go board. < 1350711538 248769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes Sgeo we made up continuous chess in this channel in 2001 < 1350711539 606223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of neat. < 1350711542 362442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then put it on some random chess variants website < 1350711544 228894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you guess < 1350711564 673281 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence me thinking that that isn't it. < 1350711565 716633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "piece" is any 3×3 square that contains at least one of your Go pieces and none of the enemy's. < 1350711575 223963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stones. < 1350711581 569840 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know Gess too < 1350711586 338042 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 8 outer stones are bits that decide in which direction your "piece" can go. < 1350711602 498707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inner stone says whether it can move just one step or as far as it wants. < 1350711621 811092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your "queen" is 9 pieces, and your "king" is a ring. You lose when you have no ring. < 1350711630 627022 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can make additional kings if you're careful.) < 1350711631 287473 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1350711648 63978 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and moves are by 1 rather than 3? < 1350711650 681854 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make strange new pieces that can only move in a particular direction. < 1350711667 158235 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like go + chess + game of life < 1350711678 423623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'm not sure... < 1350711692 363172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there's a Wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gess < 1350711696 458041 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says it can move up to 3. < 1350711713 472529 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that it depends on identifying and cataloguing formations that are bigger than the 'physics' of the game, and can form out of other things < 1350711726 421716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1350711731 197495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: going to "troll" you with this too https://plus.google.com/u/0/115212051037621986145/posts/HajXHPGN752 < 1350711746 908855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"abstractions are slow in python so if you want to write fast python don't use them" -- gvr < 1350711771 668340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Did you see bos's slides? < 1350711783 715972 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you make continuous chess where your moves are limited to rational numbers, or to algebraic numbers, or allowing rationals and quadratic surds < 1350711788 293045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bos.github.com/reaktor-dev-day-2012/reaktor-talk-slides.html < 1350711805 412776 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have a minimum movement < 1350711832 530628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Guido was at ekmett's lens talk yesterday. < 1350711861 470075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ok < 1350711868 187516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make fun of people even if they attend edwardk talks < 1350711872 651312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my superpower < 1350711893 307067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python's going to get lenses now, that's all I'm sayin'. < 1350711932 514634 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A go variant where you can't see the opponent's stones < 1350711954 988935 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you place a stone on an occupied place, the stone disappears < 1350711983 499380 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just so burnt out on caring about people being wrong on the internet about programming languages < 1350711991 414223 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did a tour of duty in /r/programming and two in #haskell < 1350711999 941511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It's a sign you're getting old. < 1350712003 442795 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1350712003 526102 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And wise?) < 1350712005 599678 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1350712008 277677 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not that one < 1350712020 852610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you should join #haskell again for the good times < 1350712028 590241 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it good now < 1350712031 838893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: heck no < 1350712036 227328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were arguing about whether Lisp has syntax an hour ago. < 1350712046 697578 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To be fair, you get that in here too.) < 1350712060 724143 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone linked to paulgraham.com an hour ago < 1350712064 62484 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also someone was asking whether Haskell was used in any real-world projects and refusing to read any links. < 1350712103 277148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like poorgraham imo < 1350712134 961974 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a channel that's like #haskell, except for all the bad parts? < 1350712139 379264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also someone was asking whether Haskell was used in any real-world projects and refusing to read any links. < 1350712142 331907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was this i wanna read it in the logs < 1350712147 154052 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No one. < 1350712160 25949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not helpful < 1350712200 898001 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find it quickly by searching for "real-world", because that phrases comes up infrequently there < 1350712208 343219 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I went to a talk about graph coloring and the birthday problem and variations. < 1350712243 627876 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: There's only one result for "real-world" and one for "real world" in today's log. :( < 1350712244 584295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that a pretty good approximation for "number of people you need in a room to have a 50% chance that two share the same birthday" is 1.2√c, where c is the number of days in a year? < 1350712262 710949 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1350712313 46434 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also coloring graphs is hard. :-( < 1350712477 361926 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew all those children's books had sinister intentions. < 1350712626 231809 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, dude < 1350712626 976632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orwell did not invent the term "two minutes hate"; it was already in use in the First World War.[1] At that time, British writers satirised the German campaign of hatred against the English, and imagined a Prussian family sitting around the kitchen table having its "morning hate".[2] < 1350712769 573000 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Well, if using a field and using getter/setter had the exact same syntax, with no oddities, I don't see any problems with using fields directly. < 1350712794 102576 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# that's not the case, fields can be used in ways that properties (getter/setter combinations) cannot < 1350712808 852070 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also leap years though < 1350712824 336014 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So better to start off with properties rather than using fields, then needing to convert to getter/setter and finding that it breaks some code. < 1350712854 327023 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Leap years don't influence it much. < 1350712863 396628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, even actual birth statistics don't influence it much. < 1350712905 890612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that in the US, there are 20% fewer births on weekends? < 1350712907 563080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So I hear.) < 1350713015 739971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Did you know that Compose v / makes √? < 1350713020 398871 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radical, man. < 1350713024 625413 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1350713036 86047 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I didn't know that there are 20% fewer birth on weekend in US. < 1350713178 662756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it < 1350713197 566157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :20% of labor is induced and doctors don't like to work on weekends, or something along those lines. < 1350713248 356729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cæsarean sections, too, I guess. < 1350713518 615383 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1350713589 734226 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 % of labor is mathematically induced. < 1350713608 599815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematical induct ion < 1350713650 875910 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend who's in liquor production < 1350713650 996876 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Owns a still of astounding construction. < 1350713651 77693 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The alcohol boils < 1350713651 77876 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Through old magnet coils; < 1350713651 582065 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :She says that it's "proof by induction." < 1350713664 75341 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle "HA" < 1350713665 153897 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... < 1350713793 877715 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a true limerick as it lacks a dirty joke < 1350713800 278728 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like a haiku without a seasonal reference < 1350713844 760735 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an incomplete song with a (5+7+5)/8 rhythm. < 1350713932 400090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Have you read some of Lear's limericks? < 1350713960 25884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really get them. < 1350714013 573215 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1350714018 423001 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preview from a crappy General MIDI export http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/924563928975/924563928975.ogg < 1350714033 919988 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have you seen the way edwardk "overloads function application"? < 1350714106 109168 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you write this music? < 1350714110 82251 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1350714125 849126 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It’s unfinished. < 1350714133 715419 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I changed some scenery but it didn't really help. < 1350714134 595387 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When, and what software? < 1350714145 947659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have more advice? < 1350714206 853922 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what problem? < 1350714211 18222 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which scenery? < 1350714225 327504 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder the same thing < 1350714226 262019 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I made a score in Lilypond () in 2011-01. You also get a crappy General MIDI file out of it almost for free. < 1350714312 56313 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1350714520 765852 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Have you seen the way edwardk "overloads function application"? < 1350714521 109109 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1350714521 192998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any simpler versions of Lilypond which will generate DVI output and do not require so many source files and that stuff? < 1350714523 963820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean a ($) class? < 1350714543 37088 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I mean isomorphism. < 1350714563 601777 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc :: Num a => a -> a <-> a; inc = isomorphic (+1) (subtract 1) < 1350714569 721081 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lilypond even requires Python and Scheme and all that stuff too < 1350714571 565257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc 4 -- 5 < 1350714577 244352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :from inc 5 -- 4 < 1350714610 221227 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You generally use just one source file with Lilypond. < 1350714674 281101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't get it. < 1350714727 74932 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1350714738 829471 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that <-> legal? Language extension? < 1350714758 102987 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I get it but I don't get the types < 1350714931 941240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, maybe I got the type wrong? < 1350714935 527302 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the syntax sometimes changes. < 1350714960 716277 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Anyway, inc acts like a function when you apply it, but you can also get the other part of the isomorphism from it. < 1350714972 766343 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example it requires Unicode < 1350715032 546715 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which encoding of unicode? < 1350715037 700739 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8? < 1350715051 899904 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who said anything about encodings? < 1350715078 930705 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I should note that I didn't look at the type that closely < 1350715158 647695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Anyway, inc acts like a function when you apply it, but you can also get the other part of the isomorphism from it. < 1350715159 426081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How? < 1350715195 890286 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> x x) (\x -> x x) < 1350715197 346419 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t = t -> t1 < 1350715199 543397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Category k => Isomorphic k where isomorphic :: (a -> b) -> (b -> a) -> k a b < 1350715207 23944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isntance Isomorphic (->) where isomorphic = const < 1350715236 326556 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Isomorphism a b = Isomorphism (a -> b) (b -> a); instance Category Isomorphism; instance Isomoprhic Isomorphism < 1350715245 61655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :type a <-> b = forall k. Isomorphic k => k a b < 1350715251 985062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :from (Isomorphism a b) = isomorphic b a < 1350715374 709363 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "pretty crazy huh" < 1350715446 471516 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1350715447 487996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeclasses < 1350715448 828031 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't count < 1350715507 583793 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> x) (\x -> x) < 1350715509 371366 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> t) < 1350715509 455167 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1350715518 457681 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> x) 4 < 1350715519 901045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1350715522 448284 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\x -> x) id < 1350715523 821865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1350715523 940824 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1350715527 842623 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> id id < 1350715529 172386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a) < 1350715529 346357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of `... < 1350715552 198127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreudFull < 1350715562 178818 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ego < 1350715563 762099 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `ego' < 1350715567 107324 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> superego < 1350715568 510152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `superego' < 1350715842 931779 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a version of LilyPond which generates DVI output and does not require Freetype, Ghostscript, Guile, Python, Pango, Unicode, etc? < 1350716403 49645 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or similar program? < 1350717528 403003 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how you define similar. The major feature of Lilypond is how much they have made effort over the years to make the output look non-computer-ish. < 1350717548 299737 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your floppy disk running out of space? < 1350717693 561510 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I am using a hard disk. < 1350717783 444573 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :5GB one? < 1350717866 53348 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't it be done with just one source-file (other than fonts), and then use ATLAST for extensions (also just one source file), and have macro files (just one for standard notation; others for specialized), use MCK-like syntax, output to DVI? < 1350717920 391344 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: No, it is 200GB < 1350718145 727437 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand why they would make effort over the years to make the output look non-computer-ish it is good idea. However, I don't think they should need many source files and all that other stuff to do that. < 1350720026 411187 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult would it be to take the LilyPond source files, remove half of the stuff, change some of the stuff, and have it compile without anything more than the C++ compiler and no extra libraries? < 1350720065 174122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it < 1350720279 594128 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the source files and it appears to be way too complicated. < 1350720338 395429 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most source does on first look < 1350720567 634450 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many source files are not very large, but there are a lot of them, in a big mess, in multiple programming languages (including PostScript), a huge number of other files, too many external files needed, etc < 1350720649 83980 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideally nothing else should be needed except a DVI driver, and METAFONT (if you want to compile the fonts). < 1350720941 383914 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even has a lot of makefiles, many files in Scheme, C++, Python, why does it need to be???? < 1350720994 989517 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350721472 901494 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if there is one that does not make the output look non-computer-ish, is there one which will make DVI format output and which does not use Unicode? < 1350721507 365148 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sincerely don’t see what’s wrong with Unicode. < 1350721528 640589 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :A score-writing system that heavily restricts the languages you can use for the lyrics would be strange. < 1350721549 908107 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And which requires only one programming language instead of five? < 1350721582 250658 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don’t think using only one programming language prevents you from using Unicode. < 1350721663 325334 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: You don't need to restrict the languages you can use for the lyrics just because Unicode won't work. Just do it the way TeX does it < 1350721697 280446 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, writing Chinese in the variants of TeX that don’t support UTF-8 is nice. < 1350721783 657323 :mekeor!~user@dslb-094-216-100-001.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350721802 709450 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it is possible to write a macro in Plain TeX which will parse UTF-8 or other encodings you might use; I have done this. So you can write macros for the encoding you want. < 1350721852 605089 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the goal was to be simple, with just a couple of files of source code. Now we’re going to have turing-complete macros? < 1350721892 177124 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you should have some extension engine whatever it is; I suggested ATLAST. < 1350721917 264757 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is a single C source file and a header file, as far as I can tell) < 1350721975 480729 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem with Unicode (for any uses, really) is the complicated stuff like character properties, changing text directions, and various other things < 1350722014 717518 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1350722046 803732 :mekeor!~user@dslb-094-216-100-001.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350722223 459268 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350722501 839942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you do use Unicode, it shouldn't need to use a list of character properties and that stuff. < 1350723779 643795 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Program such as TeX works fine with just one source file, one macro file, and a few fonts. Same with METAFONT, LodePNG, TeXnicard, Famitile, and others. < 1350723872 742334 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350724661 459683 :MoALTz!~no@212.183.128.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350726768 880687 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1350726803 399935 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1350727010 310270 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1350727130 429823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1350729556 992153 :barts!~barts@p57AEAC99.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350729561 971586 :barts!~barts@p57AEAC99.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350730192 529704 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1350730827 780478 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350731466 79841 :MoALTz!~no@212.183.128.196 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1350733435 915830 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1350734572 744100 :carado!~user4539@78.250.202.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350734986 392703 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e702.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1350735611 256780 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1350735618 437436 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1350735630 898720 :mindlessDrone!~mindlessd@vpn33-226.rz.hs-offenburg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1350737414 900027 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1350737449 121456 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1350739091 880122 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350740858 852008 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have new shoes < 1350741285 794922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new shoes! Is it the 2012 model? < 1350741306 419668 :mindlessDrone!~mindlessd@vpn33-226.rz.hs-offenburg.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the green model? < 1350741327 268936 :mindlessDrone!~mindlessd@vpn33-226.rz.hs-offenburg.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you walk with 'em? < 1350741373 945171 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blue model < 1350741389 202572 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're the 2012 model < 1350741457 721400 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast are they? < 1350741545 79877 :mindlessDrone!~mindlessd@vpn33-226.rz.hs-offenburg.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which OS? < 1350741650 317836 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1350741719 283586 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I dunno, other factors are holding it back < 1350741723 502902 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mindlessDrone, Nike < 1350741728 854731 :carado!~user4539@78.250.202.205 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1350742051 879767 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1350742174 841974 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1350742988 136482 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1350743298 792486 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Quit: Left < 1350744491 518142 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e702.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350746680 786918 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350746837 14727 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@113.64.127.185 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350747045 106228 :TheJimmyJames!~TheJimmyJ@113.64.127.185 QUIT :Client Quit < 1350747476 826503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350747648 423955 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-89.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1350747653 975721 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-89.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1350747685 202821 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1350749031 169537 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350749099 896953 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hi < 1350749110 812559 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1350749346 808955 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350749347 224713 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e702.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log iterate < 1350749378 204539 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-07-04.txt:14:15:08: please obliterate this feature < 1350749383 224933 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (<|> " Hello!") mempty < 1350749384 652380 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [""," Hello!"," Hello! Hello!"," Hello! Hello! Hello!"," Hello! Hello! Hell... < 1350749549 712403 :impomatic!~digital_w@105.19.112.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350750080 16390 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350750096 427822 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350750936 394650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obliterate literate iterators. < 1350751331 788959 :impomatic!~digital_w@105.19.112.87.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Quit: http://BASICcomic.com < 1350751340 732967 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee JOIN :#esoteric < 1350751356 299091 :ogrom!~del@143.122.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee QUIT :Client Quit < 1350751395 266846 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (id) < 1350751396 496353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> [a]) < 1350751396 671173 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of... < 1350751401 856357 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :> iterate (id) 0 < 1350751403 493127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,... < 1350752027 195304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1350753199 557230 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, \o/ Hi! < 1350753212 640696 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't myndzi react to that? < 1350753214 542408 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1350753217 666463 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1350753232 749008 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/11rcrl/google_has_their_own_version_of_chuck_norris_joke/ < 1350753260 395456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any conceivable reason why i would click that link < 1350753318 224880 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're slightly humorous? < 1350753333 224829 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy /r/ProgrammerHumor < 1350753343 311512 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure this won't at all make me want to murder everyone < 1350753423 700386 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys there's this little-known comic called xkcd, it's really funny < 1350753427 48814 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else like it < 1350753469 618725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: actually, I find xkcd more insightful than funny < 1350753475 576767 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some of the side material is hilarious < 1350753523 311143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and randall munroe seems to be really good at apocalyptic overthinking < 1350753557 274234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: something called /r/programmerhumor is one thing < 1350753562 827983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the chuck norris part worries me more about that url though < 1350753564 261615 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i only like obscure nerdy things, like video games, and movies based on superhero comics < 1350753564 764033 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his only weakness is his inability to draw 3-a-week comics < 1350753630 679653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's also good at aggregating data into vaguely surprising results < 1350753685 882901 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you seen the tumblr insane theory that Randall Munroe is Andrew Hussie? < 1350753771 80696 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the basis that they don't seem to know eachother and they are both friends with Ryan North < 1350753783 967971 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatif.xkcd.com is actually fairly entertaining. < 1350753791 605192 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1350753800 141417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of people have been saying for a long time that he should do something like whatif < 1350753812 658938 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. It plays very well to his strengths. < 1350753817 974402 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unclear if he can make money off it though < 1350753832 198396 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In "recent" xkcd, the various info things are all that have been more than "meh". < 1350753851 442208 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like a few of the jokes from recent years < 1350753853 499662 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not that many < 1350753862 129435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: can't he just make money off it the same way he's been doing < 1350753864 240442 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't generally agree on which of the jokes are funny < 1350753879 226761 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kawaii-yaois.tumblr.com/post/26879203396/a-case-study-randall-munroe-andrew-hussie < 1350753883 651338 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well he makes money off the comic by making one huge poster comic per month < 1350753886 892662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel like xkcd might be gradually transitioning into a state of being underrated < 1350753893 283612 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it seems to have been getting consistently better for a while now < 1350753896 277500 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which every nerd is then contractually obligated to buy for their dorm room < 1350753897 926016 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure the plural of "yaoi" is "yaoi". < 1350753899 572680 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1350753905 707267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's impossible for it to be underrated < 1350753906 866818 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then he phones in the other 11 comics for that month < 1350753908 711316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has a huge fanbase < 1350753910 265515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't count < 1350753921 721826 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you think the comic is getting better, or just side projects? < 1350753945 91085 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the comic has reached a very consistent level of mediocrity < 1350753950 581915 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I'm pretty sure that isn't relevant < 1350753953 158073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comic; i think if you look back to how it was fairly recently (like a year or so) it's been improving < 1350753962 748073 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: :P < 1350753964 862642 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it is not as good as it once was but i think it is getting less bad than it became < 1350753977 57294 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :every new joke is a rehash of some joke he's already done, but worse < 1350754006 138001 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rarely offensively terrible, but it's hitting the same dozen themes over and over and wringing all the funny out of them < 1350754008 693205 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/7/ was the last actually funny one < 1350754013 501269 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Which is still better than "insert nerdy reference here" sadly. < 1350754013 584765 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1350754038 944700 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. It's really funny his art quality has gone *down* over the years. < 1350754060 827576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh arch upgrade fucked with my stuff < 1350754064 872242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are links opening in firefox now < 1350754071 459118 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch deluxe < 1350754074 868430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am desirous of a refund < 1350754076 37575 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is best browser < 1350754119 753250 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my friends upgraded from Safari to Internet Explorer and the speed increase was so great he's too afraid to go to any quicker browser < 1350754183 159820 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i left my computer for 3 weeks and now pacman scares me < 1350754183 831147 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"upgraded" < 1350754203 209927 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, apparently, Safari is really awful? < 1350754215 219293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess on windows modern ie > safari < 1350754225 541514 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it include a partial port of Cocoa on Windows? < 1350754228 519529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i will derive intense satisfaction from your inability to handle the systemd transition and subsequent breaking of your installation < 1350754269 775432 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't really fault xkcd's art style < 1350754294 456173 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean nobody is reading it for the amazing art, but it's a consistent and recognizable look which is not terrible < 1350754296 896813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sugar. Javascript Sweetened. (sugarjs.com) < 1350754298 411650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers < 1350754300 883004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we please stop < 1350754304 96425 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to imitate apple marketing < 1350754306 348443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with slogans < 1350754311 276062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1350754315 844648 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to other stick figure comics on the internet which mostly look like they were drawn using the ellipse tool in ms paint < 1350754324 840688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND ALSO: programmers can we stop talking about JS < 1350754328 584357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, forever < 1350754330 490896 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, it's better than most of MegaTokyo's art style, which I think is cluttered < 1350754338 730672 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop imitating apple? then we would have to, like, think of original ideas < 1350754353 27316 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more relevant criticism of xkcd is that most of the jokes just don't need to be visual < 1350754362 522111 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prototypical bad xkcd strip is two unmoving stick figures exchanging dialogue < 1350754370 729191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is Sugar available for Node.js? Yes!" < 1350754373 368444 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy oh boy!! < 1350754379 489316 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if this thing extends javascript does it count as an interesting language?? < 1350754382 285341 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the latest xkcd's art < 1350754383 910208 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like it might be legacy garbage < 1350754387 724119 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :panel 1: setup line which nobody would possibly ever say in real life < 1350754394 976214 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :panel 2: mildly amusing tweet-worthy observation < 1350754396 883998 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript: the new C. < 1350754429 467447 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :panel 3: unnecessary post-punchline dialogue (e.g. "we live in the future", " is weird, man", "i like science a whole lot can i please be in your club guys") < 1350754475 499185 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if any people at MIT hate RM on appropriationist grounds < 1350754484 580206 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the people i've talked to who know him seem to like him < 1350754513 621679 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :RM = ? < 1350754571 745634 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :randall munroe < 1350754583 102567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys should i play adom < 1350754623 184704 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1350754644 965376 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, my experience with him (admittedly limited and via IRC) suggests he's a decent guy. < 1350754651 786028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: maaan < 1350754657 322856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you know i've been on an old version of mosh for MONTHS??? < 1350754660 719378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the AUR package got renamed < 1350754662 120801 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody told me < 1350754670 936820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is offset by the fact that I don't use mosh though < 1350754674 82382 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1350754678 864791 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should upgrade to the just-released 1.2.3 < 1350754689 797539 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: afaict there's only mosh-git < 1350754694 9755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta live on the bleeding edge < 1350754694 661351 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1350754700 422383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1350754703 56645 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is mosh in the community repos < 1350754708 324621 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're Officially a Program now < 1350754731 204450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here by "you" I mean "mosh" < 1350754749 424185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the package is 1.2.3 too < 1350754749 944655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huray < 1350754795 914026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1350754869 517775 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/keithw/mosh/commit/029e8bbde5e53b2e3454241143050cef27705cbe#L0R1018 < 1350754872 470514 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :security is hard :( < 1350754894 609462 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :before anyone starts ranting about "rolling your own crypto", this is a third party crypto library bundled with mosh and written by professional cryptographers < 1350754955 732828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's really interesting how "optimisations" like memcmp bailing out early are insecure < 1350754975 556108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, really worrying < 1350754994 257349 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also think a Sufficiently Smart compiler would be allowed to optimize my constant_time_memcmp into something that bails out early anyway < 1350755016 704620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1350755023 572340 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :current infrastructure is just totally fucked for writing secure programs < 1350755026 606440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems basically futile < 1350755029 180680 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1350755037 946847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what secure programs want is so at odds with what you want in general < 1350755044 139874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my regular programs would like memcmp to be fast pls < 1350755048 277954 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing programs without timing side channel leaks probalby requires a domain specific language < 1350755059 715237 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then you will have to be careful about cache effects, etc < 1350755063 373622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1350755080 263282 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess in the end the ideal would be having all security code packaged up in libraries written in languages that are very precise about timing and so on < 1350755092 177282 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1350755108 921203 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :written by a small number of experts, exposing APIs which are hard to mis-use < 1350755122 942514 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how we saw ocb.c < 1350755127 318681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, an API is that is hard to mis-use < 1350755135 647226 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very self-contained "decrypt this packet and tell me if it's authentic" function < 1350755138 619243 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even experts make mistakes < 1350755195 48999 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, it will always be possible to misuse APIs < 1350755205 837100 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when we have preconditions like "never use the same nonce twice" < 1350755224 317300 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is also a lot that can be done to improve this < 1350755262 383308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly linearly-typed nonces < 1350755335 279162 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1350755341 491651 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps linearly-typed nonces will fix my crypto API < 1350755377 259950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't talk noncense, kmc < 1350755382 396668 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wompwomp < 1350755445 176692 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's mosh? < 1350755446 145054 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : As the saying goes, Britain and America are two nations divided by a common charset. < 1350755452 848502 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: http://mosh.mit.edu/ < 1350755468 397284 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mosh is food < 1350755480 423310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nosh < 1350755491 726581 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now he's telling users who can't get it to run to read his academic paper < 1350755496 229346 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think this was haskell software or something < 1350755498 378059 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rimshot
< 1350755507 25398 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :nfood then < 1350755523 610228 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me < 1350755534 647639 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to find a way of running Skype from the command line < 1350755626 204036 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e702.pool.mediaWays.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have some hard times trying to get these knockout.js observables to work with jquery based plugins.. thousand lines of workaround-js-code.. a nightmare < 1350755641 761312 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: yeah < 1350755651 336492 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i switched to command line irc and aim/xmpp clients because of mosh < 1350755669 573608 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i run them on ec2 and my sessions follow me wherever i go < 1350755785 394151 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it works on a lot of very marginal connections where the IRC protocol (or anything else TCP-based) is completely unusable < 1350755845 337995 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spiffy. < 1350755866 373345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so who wants to tell me how to fix links opening in firefox thanks < 1350755883 935103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i am not picky < 1350755886 340891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be anyone < 1350755887 856062 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change your default browser < 1350755887 936793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be you < 1350755899 841000 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which file < 1350755921 825684 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows? < 1350755950 73177 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you open your browser of choice and click the button that says "make this your default browser" < 1350755981 559960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Default browser < 1350755982 65224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chromium cannot determine or set the default browser. < 1350756001 907403 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you're using an obscure operating system < 1350756005 26862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does anyone have email client recommendations < 1350756041 370875 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally am using Claws ATM, but I'll note that it's a little rough. And if you find something better let me know. < 1350756061 334374 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use gmail like a normal human being < 1350756125 598411 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My university's email is on fucking outlook.com. I'm not using that straight. < 1350756128 74401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i do and am vaguely sick of it < 1350756152 354789 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just use mutt, 10 billion linux nerds can't be wrong < 1350756163 113548 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if threaded discussion sort of sucks < 1350756182 146442 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/1990sLinuxUser < 1350756193 320796 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish this was still updating < 1350756295 94113 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grin* < 1350756313 925745 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why has systemd deprecated support for /usr on a different filesystem!!" < 1350756343 4759 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sensibilities run vaguely close to "90's Linux User", but I applaud that of systemd. Except that it didn't go far enough. < 1350756356 13300 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s / /usr is the only right way < 1350756361 110360 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1350756366 465974 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. could. go. wrong. < 1350756376 243107 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my testing, nothing at all. < 1350756380 508493 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1350756383 471078 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1350756387 622623 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1350756394 553778 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you a crazy motherfucker < 1350756396 699870 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's even FHS conformant. < 1350756427 784363 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :About the only weirdness is you get a few more directories in / < 1350756434 58738 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. /x86_64-unknown-linux-musl < 1350756485 932799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have come to prefer separate /usr < 1350756492 998257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to some degree < 1350756509 684733 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess anything that traverses directories already needs to understand symlink loops < 1350756517 809197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there seems to be enough semantic distinction between what is in /usr and e.g. the stuff in /var < 1350756528 382359 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think having a read-only /usr is inherently an unreasonable idea < 1350756547 889504 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I see nothing wrong with /run at all. < 1350756562 276748 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want to compress /usr < 1350756566 243547 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nothing. < 1350756570 419697 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my ssd < 1350756572 889632 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I AM BLIND ALL ALONG < 1350756576 832654 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1350756581 586044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1350756585 379795 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of 1990s linux users < 1350756585 891631 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes perfect sense to merge run-time transient state into a single dir. < 1350756586 394410 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disclaimer: I'm not blind) < 1350756589 540070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I ever get X11 working on that floppy linux distro < 1350756591 936589 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i didn't :( < 1350756596 159821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should try that again! < 1350756603 600162 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. :) < 1350756618 676515 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what's you're reaction to me, elliott, and Phantom_Hoover all being from the 90's < 1350756620 873468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i managed to get the latest kernel and a crappy shell and some vaguely crappy standard utilities (written in asm) working, I know that much < 1350756622 441515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in <1.4 megs < 1350756627 67275 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: all modern file systems have transparent compression < 1350756630 460617 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh i think pikhq was born in the 90s too < 1350756636 524786 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE MYSTERY DEEPENS < 1350756637 892328 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and by "working " I mean "in qemu" < 1350756638 427843 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was born in 1990, so yes. < 1350756659 674993 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 18 in two weeksz < 1350756660 792647 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1350756669 279229 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're not getting a (recent-ish) build system in that space, sadly. < 1350756669 973650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right that's why i asked thingy < 1350756673 541315 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: really? < 1350756673 974230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you know about wayland right < 1350756683 639837 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best I was able to do was an 11M squashfs. < 1350756690 449597 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only vaguely. < 1350756690 966810 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: do you mean automatically or with some command per-file < 1350756700 584072 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if it + xwayland is larger or smaller than X11. < 1350756712 399427 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4 says "no" for ext4 < 1350756713 204235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh did you answer that < 1350756714 552736 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :btrfs has a mount flag for compression, zfs lets you set it per file system < 1350756714 636288 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, bootstrap-linux currently static links all the binaries. < 1350756716 868886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fell asleep at one point so if you did < 1350756722 510677 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't. < 1350756726 939700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1350756728 153039 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ohloh.net/p/e4z < 1350756731 48950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect it'd probably be larger < 1350756740 274044 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because wayland depends on fancy kernel graphical stuff that i turned off < 1350756742 282588 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1350756751 148712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btrfs has it though < 1350756758 873002 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just too lazy to get the crosscompiler build scheme done "right", so it can actually do dynamic linking) < 1350756759 167303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway maybe i would be satisfied with two floppies < 1350756763 441021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one with X and a build chain and one with everything else < 1350756778 65536 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC's fucking huge. < 1350756783 847158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it'd be really cool if you could get a Linux system that's fully "bootstrapped" in that it comes with everything you need to download and rebuild itself in a graphical environment in 1.4 megs < 1350756784 266649 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bak later) < 1350756796 85937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some ridiculous compression and brutal feature trimming < 1350756810 632346 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are the patches to compile the kernel with tcc kept up-to-date < 1350756819 335959 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1350756823 562239 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootstrap-linux is currently 31M... < 1350756861 265888 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point in the next year I anticipate landley actually getting tcc (well, more like qcc) functional, at least. < 1350756874 394811 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though toybox probably comes first. < 1350756894 968507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : bootstrap-linux is currently 31M... < 1350756897 340339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big is your kernel < 1350756903 534700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got my kernel down to like 300-500 kilobytes compressed < 1350756911 818784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it actually booted in qemu and ran the stuff < 1350756919 378370 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1350756927 629668 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1M but I have *not* cleaned up the kernel config at all. < 1350756930 863730 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I had no filesystems except in ram < 1350756942 35115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just used the embed-a-directory-tree-directly-into-the-kernel stuff < 1350756948 642159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it got compressed with the kernel image and loaded into ram < 1350756961 795828 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I think the kernel had no idea how to load floppies at all < 1350756969 728596 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just relied on the bootloader loading everything it needed or whatever < 1350756993 472107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably it would be better to try and stuff floppy support into the kernel < 1350757006 443842 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you could boot it, recompile the sources from scratch (given a copy of them), and then write a new floppy with it < 1350757070 384823 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, the cpio.xz is a mere 7.9M... < 1350757104 828656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mere" < 1350757114 841178 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets something like exponentially harder to get things smaller as you go < 1350757126 529528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IME < 1350757167 457024 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably do well to switch on dynamic linking. < 1350757173 50792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you think the basic X11 protocol is simple enough that I could implement a tiny X server that outputs to the framebuffer without wanting to kill myself or spending a year on it < 1350757187 455152 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a word, no. < 1350757195 208997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure dynamic linking would help... you'd include unused library functions, and compression should already handle most of the redundancy, right < 1350757204 616443 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removing the kernel from the cpio and some documentation got it down to 4.3M < 1350757283 766032 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway probably this would be a lot easier with some like 2.4 kernel < 1350757285 404734 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is cheating < 1350757313 467564 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Major benefit of dynamic linking is that binutils has a *lot* of programs which use libbfd... < 1350757541 547449 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there no smaller alternatives for binutils? < 1350757551 559173 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I found my singing voice < 1350757592 522445 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Not really. < 1350757603 923832 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I even went and beat a lot of bloat out of it with a giant stick. < 1350757623 175979 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -Wl,--gc-sections < 1350757640 643562 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does elliott need a tiny X server? < 1350757708 568447 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350757724 832904 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350757736 111815 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350757764 787394 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350757770 188143 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350757850 843968 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350758206 148985 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm not sure that's the "giant" stick, but definitely a start < 1350758225 324873 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: From some binutils binaries it removes nearly a meg. < 1350758432 567170 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also did some more autoconf fighting to convince it not to install libiberty. < 1350758448 632861 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or libbfd. < 1350758465 429132 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you don't install the headers, you don't get to install the damned library!) < 1350758510 684046 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(libiberty is only installed as a .a anyways, meaning you don't even get the excuse of "it's a utility library all binutils needs") < 1350758666 769321 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1350759506 912460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: imo rewrite binutils < 1350759654 904508 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC's a bit more important to rewrite IMO. < 1350759669 529661 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :binutils is bloated. GCC is bloated and stupidly fragile. < 1350759685 192938 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could use a different compiler < 1350759689 596042 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350759696 283090 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name one that builds Linux. < 1350759711 392265 :barts!~barts@p57AEAC99.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ungcc < 1350759870 568919 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly minix time < 1350760130 144816 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hasn't clang been used to compile a "working" kernel already? < 1350760140 969933 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :does clang fit on a floppy? < 1350760167 536012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Needs patching, I think. Like icc. < 1350760204 667818 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU stuff tends to be bloated < 1350760398 34900 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350760425 324638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a BOM in my UTF-8 file. < 1350760487 176838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ew < 1350760575 448032 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clang's *larger* than GCC. < 1350760582 735592 :barts!~barts@p57AEAC99.dip.t-dialin.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: depends how you define "to flop" < 1350760592 659819 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though GCC will probably catch up, and that quickly. < 1350760623 950281 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only advantage GCC has over clang in binary size is that GCC is in C, and GCC isn't in C anymore. < 1350760654 114400 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And clang has the (decent) excuse of being a full on C static analysis tool that happens to have a code generator attached. < 1350760666 842754 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, is the whole compiler and toolchain required to be on the floppy as well? < 1350760667 97938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC isn't in C anymore? < 1350760683 674402 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They switched to requiring C++ in git recently. < 1350760699 704401 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC 4.8 will be C++. < 1350760725 779345 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, but they should still compile C codes as well as C++ codes too < 1350760741 185653 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does still function as a C compiler. < 1350760747 612512 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just written *in* C++ now. < 1350760757 24020 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1350760768 432897 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC also supports some targets that LLVM does not support, though, such as MMIX < 1350760873 257430 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-26-89.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1350761138 839310 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1350761421 502182 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1350761748 717903 :shubshub!~quassel@118-93-4-169.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1350761750 998646 :shubshub!~quassel@118-93-4-169.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350761763 855130 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1350761976 285081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you know anything about ncurses < 1350762029 973018 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e702.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1350762115 693409 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nwitches cast ncurses. < 1350762155 303799 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81ea1f.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350762156 444362 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BOM is also a zero-width non-breaking space < 1350762165 932984 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's now a different codepoint you're supposed to use for that < 1350762356 231226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's immediately at the start of the file, there's no real reason for a zwnbsp, and (I think; haven't verified) it's confusing mplayer's srt subtitle parser because it expects "1", not "\ufeff1", at start. (Or possibly it's not autoloaded for some other reason.) < 1350762381 180449 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1350762401 231171 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Microsoft's fault. < 1350762452 494531 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-203-72.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Notepad expects and emits a UTF-8 BOM for UTF-8 text) < 1350762483 427514 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Failed to open subtitle demuxer", it says, if I explicitly -subfile it. (VLC is happy with it though.) < 1350762680 711550 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was from the Finnisn national broadcasting company's web thing (YLE Areena), though I'm really not sure if it's their fault, or the YLE-specific rtmpdump script+plugin's fault. < 1350762695 280806 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : urllib.urlretrieve(url, subtitlefile.encode(enc, 'replace')) < 1350762698 761439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.add_BOM(subtitlefile) < 1350762704 231666 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's quite clear. < 1350762741 170203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming some player or another is using the BOM to go all "hey, these subs are in UTF-8 and not in our legacy 8-bit encoding". < 1350762898 742747 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, Microsoft has done some good though. Isn't XMLHttpRequest from IE? < 1350762899 444318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think the web thing used to have burned-in subtitles in the RTMP video stream, it's kind of nice that they've switched it to an external SRT file presumably loaded by the official Flash player. < 1350762909 409250 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that seems likely < 1350762939 709283 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw python urllib sucks ass < 1350762943 527414 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'requests' is a much nicer library < 1350762953 298035 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you supposed to use urllib2? < 1350762970 929093 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone probably thinks so < 1350762974 576411 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but requests is nicer than urllib2 < 1350762990 381853 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant over urllib < 1350763188 465869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It imports urllib and urllib2. < 1350763234 497497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall you used some things from the old one. But I haven't used it much. (It wasn't a nice library.) < 1350763347 122290 :shubshub!~quassel@118-93-4-169.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350763410 85102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :yle-dl changelog, 1.99.7: "Add byte order mark into subtitle files. Some players don't show umlaut characters correctly without it." < 1350763484 843000 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fast would CPU having an internal memory and an external memory, where the internal memory is partially ROM and partially RAM and also includes the external address bus and data bus as locations in the internal memory, it execute instructions from the internal memory using VLIW instructions and those are used like microcodes to execute external instructions? < 1350765457 880322 :MoALTz!~no@212.183.128.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350765464 926235 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is poking a giant gaping hole in the Clojure bot's sandbox in #clojure
< 1350765472 232653 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although someone else discovered the hole, I'm exploring it < 1350765566 738064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1350765754 817314 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1350765966 728197 :carado!~user4539@78.250.193.89 JOIN :#esoteric < 1350766238 616828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I figured out how to beat the demon in Dungeons&Dragons game, I think, although we need to beat the chancellor first just because it is more important. < 1350766250 130032 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need to somehow tilt the demon's castle. < 1350766297 460048 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like how Kaiji managed to tilt the entire casino in order to win at a pachinko game. < 1350766347 36667 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in New Super Mario Bros Wii? < 1350766361 816339 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may or may not have happend in New Super Mario Bros Wii < 1350766365 326518 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only on world 2 < 1350766394 122390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it happens in New Super Mario Bros Wii, I have not played that game. < 1350766433 734705 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`:t foldr < 1350766435 301297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldr < 1350766436 408057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :forall a b. (a -> b -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b < 1350766442 370232 :carado!~user4539@78.250.193.89 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1350766443 942810 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: :t: not found < 1350766756 944509 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was in the castle last time, I found that it was not tilted, and there is also water on the ceiling. If I use anti-magic in there (I know where to get such a device), the water might fall down and flood everything. Or maybe it is even artificial gravity and something will go wrong with that too... < 1350766847 758748 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any manipulate water spells? < 1350766863 324035 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use those in a anti-magic field! < 1350766876 233911 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...manupulate water prayers? < 1350766890 282022 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use those in a anti-magic field either! < 1350766903 479134 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A very large sponge? < 1350766914 97124 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :erect an anti anti-magic field field < 1350766943 262935 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my plan was to tilt the building so that all the water would go to one side < 1350766955 863980 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that it is shallow on one side and deep on one side < 1350766960 383895 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I may actually play D&D < 1350766992 814473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What character do you prefer to play? < 1350767006 629097 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1350767011 599185 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably a cleric type < 1350767019 689472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: < 1350767020 725265 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> :kind! Foldr Pair Unit (Map Show '[Int, String]) < 1350767020 806097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foldr Pair Unit (Map Show '[Int, String]) :: Constraint < 1350767020 806171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric := Pair (Show Int) (Pair (Show [Char]) ()) < 1350767034 800498 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do happen to know the demon's age if that ever becomes important (I know by psychic impressions on a chancellor's guard's sword) < 1350767039 344225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(class (a, b) => Pair a b; instance (a, b) => Pair a b); type family Unit :: Constraint; type instance Unit = ()) < 1350767050 240651 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: real world haskell < 1350767079 501632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: There are different versions of D&D game; I am playing D&D 3.5 edition. One day I may complete the writing of Icosahedral RPG rules; much of what I have in my mind I have not typed. < 1350767096 52907 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got the 4th ed player's handbook < 1350767118 763121 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like 4th edition, many other people also don't like it < 1350767142 676364 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I've never actually played it < 1350767149 673974 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 3.5 or any other D&D < 1350767160 385128 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also got the Diana: Warrior Princess book < 1350767213 718968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also happen to know that the demon's magic powers are less powerful the farther away he is from his castle (I know this from the illithid savant's "lore" class feature); my idea initially was to try to lure the demon to the opposite side of the Earth. < 1350767235 627140 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd take a while < 1350767246 635482 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be quicker to move his castle < 1350767248 187738 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know, that is one reason why I won't do it < 1350767307 531048 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/jTUh < 1350767311 492158 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good ghc errors < 1350767321 896875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(while trying to write mapElimH :: (All c ts) => (forall a. (c a) => a -> r) -> HList ts -> [r]) < 1350767385 281816 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a shortcut to the inside of the castle, which only works at nighttime, though. I may need a team to come in this way, exit through the door or something, and weaken the foundation, to tilt the castle. < 1350767682 447711 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at first I need to get rid of the assassins, and I have some plan related to the phase of the moon and pretending to be trapped by the illithid haters society and miscast a spell intending to communicate with someone else, so they will believe me and try to kill me, but it is a illusion so that way I can trap them. < 1350767698 836932 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then after that, I somehow need to trap the chancellor too, and rescue the king. < 1350767768 206112 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot enter the king's castle because only the chancellor's guards are seen at the entrances; the king's guards are no where to be seen. So instead we just try something else, such as, sending messages secretly to the royal scribes and so on. < 1350767786 431329 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully the chancellor's guards have not infiltrated them too! < 1350768005 435427 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much do you know about the Chancellor? < 1350768015 56173 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how much does he know about you? < 1350768094 131510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :allThrough :: (All p (x ': xs)) => (forall ys. (All p ys) => rep ys -> r) -> rep xs -> r < 1350768094 212419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :allThrough k = k < 1350768096 246958 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even this isn't helping :( < 1350768739 966819 :mindlessDrone1!~mindlessd@HSI-KBW-134-3-30-124.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1350768820 381888 :mindlessDrone!~mindlessd@vpn33-226.rz.hs-offenburg.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1350768831 828679 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-142-60-139.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1350768986 595320 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a few things about the chancellor and he knows a few things about me. I do happen to know the chancellor is evil and I know his age too, but I do not know his location. The chancellor probably knows a few things about me or at least his guards do; they hired an assassin to kill me. < 1350768997 48090 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know exactly how much money they got paid for that job, too. < 1350769029 72573 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you outbid the assassin? < 1350769044 901762 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Did you get your Stripe web CTF shirt yet? < 1350769125 542801 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Nope. < 1350769128 284340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you? < 1350769132 903405 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1350769143 371181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking it was just me, since they never managed to get it to me last time. < 1350769149 724223 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, not just you < 1350769154 959945 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should bug gdb about it < 1350769164 330756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps i could... de-bug gdb?!?!? < 1350769190 904523 :mindlessDrone1!~mindlessd@HSI-KBW-134-3-30-124.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de PART :#esoteric < 1350769266 838919 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasionally I go to their various events, so I might bug him then. < 1350769533 147333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: I have not enough money to outbid the assassin. < 1350769537 669674 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1350769557 412984 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is currently mashing four potatoes
< 1350769561 24246 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what are their events like? < 1350769561 903494 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if I did have enough, I do not know where the assassin's guid is. < 1350769569 941440 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/guid/guild/ < 1350769610 278619 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: four potatoes! < 1350769618 889240 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know where there's a thieves' guild? < 1350769751 151286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> mapElimH' showTo (HCons 1 (HCons "abc" HNil)) < 1350769751 268930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :["1","\"abc\""] < 1350769752 276910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww yeah < 1350769784 545174 :atriq!~Taneb@host-2-99-92-32.as13285.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1350769820 662777 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a thieves' guild either but I don't think I need one of those. < 1350769853 291146 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is HCons like Lisp's cons? < 1350769860 243168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends what that means < 1350769871 774100 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of and no < 1350769878 168001 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a HCar and HCdr < 1350769879 617554 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it is, i'm sure lisp's is better because it's lisp < 1350769899 213477 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are type level lists right < 1350769907 294898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that you've used some insane GHC 7.4 black magic < 1350769914 673694 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i totally off base < 1350769951 209603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually 7.6 black magic at this point < 1350769977 33545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://sprunge.us/BJHh < 1350769990 140162 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :took the Show thing from an SO answer and modified it and am trying to get it to use mapElimH < 1350770092 237892 :Nickname_!~user@HSI-KBW-134-3-30-124.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1350770140 310780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :next up: toListH :: (Homogeneous ts a) => HList ts -> [a] < 1350770162 534820 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GODDAMNNIT APPARENTLY THERE"S NO SUCH THINGS AS HEADPHONES THAT WON"T BREAK IN MY CARE < 1350770171 123927 :MoALTz!~no@212.183.128.172 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1350770171 435647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my experience as well < 1350770174 542048 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a matter of when, not if < 1350770174 622895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually hm < 1350770176 852072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i want something more like < 1350770182 983692 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all things decay Sgeo < 1350770194 168085 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If atriq is ever come back on let them to read the recent text on my Dungeons&Dragons game if interested, or anyone else read if interesting perhaps you comment on my plans too < 1350770198 452150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toListH :: HList ts -> Maybe () [] (Homogeneous ts) < 1350770204 981111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm < 1350770206 703120 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think it was the video, not the headphones < 1350770213 165386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I actually do want a typeclass I think < 1350770214 574937 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even complain about spelling and grammatical errors if you want to < 1350770215 411613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one with an ATF < 1350770220 850448 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is ATF? < 1350770252 771971 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :associated type family < 1350770279 867816 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :alcohol tobacco and firearms < 1350770285 53975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh what's the simplest way of writing a foldr that checks all elements of a list are equal < 1350770285 751152 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :essential ingredients for haskell programming < 1350770288 466997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the value level < 1350770292 393179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: help < 1350770292 799923 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ... and explosives, nowadays < 1350770306 942108 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Alcohol,_Tobacco,_Firearms_and_Explosives < 1350770309 992498 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1350770342 386487 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What type family do you need? < 1350770387 243969 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something along the lines of toListH :: (Homogeneous ts) => HList ts -> [Elem ts] < 1350770417 805446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1350770429 39976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work because HNil is polymorphic < 1350770431 771286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1350770484 298027 :Nickname_!~user@HSI-KBW-134-3-30-124.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Quit: Alt-F4 < 1350770526 311234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1350770527 456217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toListH :: (All ((~) a) ts) => HList ts -> [a] < 1350770554 191093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toListH :: (All ((~) a) ts) => HList ts -> [a] < 1350770554 346139 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toListH = mapElimH' cast < 1350770554 427014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast :: To ((~) a) a < 1350770554 427179 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast = To id < 1350770582 125135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now just to separate mapElimH' and toListH < 1350770636 855135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toListH :: (All ((~) a) ts) => HList ts -> [a] < 1350770636 973050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toListH HNil = [] < 1350770636 973263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toListH (HCons x xs) = x : toListH xs < 1350770637 995345 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing Haskell doesn't have but would be like is classes with automatic instances, you cannot define your own instances you can only use the instances made automatically. Typeable should be made into such a class. But I have wanted to make other classes having this feature too. < 1350770642 816201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Main> :t toListH < 1350770642 983633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :toListH < 1350770643 64475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: (Foldr < 1350770643 64620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : Constraint Constraint Pair () (Map Constraint * (* ~ a) ts)) => < 1350770643 309565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : HList ts -> [a] < 1350770650 23610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i am enterprising < 1350770825 823715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You were at one of them, weren't you? < 1350770826 416121 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1350770844 816859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: help < 1350771313 843541 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at what? < 1350771315 459208 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1350771320 77268 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was at the first ctf wrapup < 1350771887 734868 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why would you want that? < 1350772140 483787 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: It would be useful sometimes, when you want to indicate that certain features of the type are available, as part of a constraint, Typeable is one example of such thing, although there are others, such as types belonging to another class but without exposing its methods, etc < 1350772253 481382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Seriously, what moron in this day and age is not familiar with the limitations of aclocal and the best practices to use system-wide m4 macros?" :D < 1350772302 296537 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/20/us/in-silicon-valley-perks-now-begin-at-home.html < 1350772318 767370 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's feed our programmers and do their laundry and clean their rooms and make sure they don't have to be capable of functioning as adults in any way < 1350772364 688510 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers are children right, it would be crazy to just give them money and expect them to spend that money in ways they see fit < 1350772392 430023 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all programmers are children. Some may be. < 1350772455 187848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1350772458 185513 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a way to eliminate via iso here < 1350772471 269469 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sux < 1350772472 826813 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there is a learned helplessness aspect too < 1350772495 355780 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when all your daily needs are met by The Company and all your friends and housemates work for The Company and all your social events are organized by The Company, it makes it that much harder to quit < 1350772617 440103 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why you need to quit. < 1350772631 656818 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom_Hoover monqy mapdate < 1350773385 663348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1350775841 555120 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1350776185 818226 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1350776315 516786 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1350776427 203040 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1350776511 279012 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1350777117 862049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Have you had strawberries with balsamic vinegar? < 1350777224 167569 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :OM NOM NOM < 1350777225 845091 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bacon < 1350777243 96605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I don't think I've had that. < 1350777262 530697 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacon with balsamic is good < 1350777275 85638 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-23-23-43-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is good with balsamic < 1350777280 181055 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyth -- that. < 1350777497 497463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :test :: ((forall a. (Show a) => a -> String) ~ (Int -> String)) => () < 1350777499 763952 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this not ok < 1350777501 678270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a ~ that means < 1350777503 492165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can unify with" < 1350777505 602407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can do < 1350777510 955103 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a ~ String -> String, a ~ Int -> String) < 1350777518 510738 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a = forall a. (Show a) => a -> String < 1350777519 790698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :works