00:00:07 olsner, good idea. 00:00:15 * Sgeo proceeds to talk about Stargate Infinity 00:00:46 can someone kick sgeo 00:01:17 Built by ancients so long ago 00:01:27 the stargate lay 'till we broke the code... 00:01:33 is this a rap 00:02:00 Phantom__Hoover, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67E-_SQLVRo 00:03:30 wow 00:10:19 i'm not watching that Sgeo 00:10:27 how did you have time to find that and not finish ds9 00:10:40 especially if you were midway through season 6 ffs 00:10:45 7 00:11:09 THAT'S WORSE 00:11:12 also bsg is pretty sweet 00:11:46 Phantom__Hoover, I forgot where I left off and some of the episodes are a bit fillerish 00:12:12 you mean vic don't you 00:12:57 I don't remember 00:13:09 But yeah, Vic counts as filler 00:13:30 until only a paper moon 00:14:49 kmc: So you're going to do a cryptography CTF? 00:17:29 probably not 00:18:20 Phantom__Hoover: did sgeo really stop watching ds9 00:18:21 :-( 00:18:33 yes 00:18:34 yes he did 00:18:43 right as the dominion war was at its height 00:18:45 gj sgeo 00:18:46 I intend to resume eventually 00:21:47 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 00:34:42 where, roughly, did you actually stop? 00:35:07 please tell me you at least watched the siege of ar-558 00:37:29 -!- ais523 has quit. 00:52:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:21:50 Finally I fixed FamicomHDL. writeCart works now, and Language.FamicomHDL.Logic works now. 01:23:54 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:38:46 this anubis guy has watched star wars too much 01:39:12 first he has his jedi-sith duel against michael shanks 01:39:42 then they found this darth vader-looking "super soldier" 01:39:54 and then darth vader turns out to be a clone from an army of clones 01:47:24 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 02:00:54 I wish I remembered what episode I stopped at 02:12:05 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:29:03 I definitely saw It's Only a Paper Moon 02:29:22 paper moon was a pretty good movie 02:33:18 Tempted to paste in a Clojure oddity, but I have a feeling it won't be appreciated 02:33:35 Actually, hmm, it makes Clojure look like a Lisp-2, if it were shown without any other context 02:47:17 Now I added Language.FamicomHDL.Cartridge 02:48:09 ,(let [do 5] (do do)) 02:48:09 5 02:48:15 I consider this behavior to be a Clojure wart 02:48:28 You can write something like (andSignal [ppuRead, ppuWrite] >>= connect irqTrig) makes it trigger an interrupt whenever the PPU attempts to read or write anything. Is that how you would use a hardware description language? 02:48:45 Sgeo: Can you explain it better? 02:49:12 No, because until just this second, I thought I understood it, but I don't 02:50:58 Clojure is currently acting like a Lisp-2 where functions share a namespace with lexicals but macros and special forms are in their own little world 02:52:07 there's a reason after a while they just call them lisp-n 02:52:29 Clojure is supposedly a Lisp-1. 02:53:03 Acting like a Lisp-2 a portion of the time is, as far as I'm concerned, broken behavior. 02:53:27 Hmm, maybe it's clojail breaking up, lemme see 02:53:40 first-class special forms are a recipe for hilarity 02:54:01 But this behavior is extending to macros too 02:55:01 It's Clojail 02:56:16 (The sandboxing that one of the bots uses. And the other bot is offline) 03:00:59 Should I summarize? 03:01:21 Or does no one care? 03:16:43 Maybe someone does care. 03:19:53 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 03:47:18 zzo38, unless you're one of them, it's unlikely 03:48:24 Maybe someone who read the log will care in future. 03:48:32 Maybe I care too; I don't know. 03:53:54 -!- Sanky has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:00:09 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:09:23 -!- rapido has joined. 05:14:33 "This is my first SF riot. Do we have a VC-funded artisanal coffee shop sponsoring it yet? What’s the hashtag? Where do I park my bike?" 05:25:58 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:28:57 What's so hard about cache invalidation? 05:35:23 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 05:37:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:44:40 I read about esolang "Muxcomp". Can something like this be made for a VLIW microcode, accessing the internal cache memory? 05:47:43 -!- rapido has joined. 05:53:31 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 06:39:49 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:43:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 06:55:20 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 06:56:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:04:13 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:21:48 @tell elliott I didn't donate. :-P 07:21:48 Consider it noted. 07:22:32 Deewiant: TRAITOR. 07:22:39 Traitor to the CAUSE. 07:23:11 monqy: did you donate 07:23:18 donate to what 07:24:05 idk my bff jill 07:24:15 To D. 07:24:38 To D is the D I am going to sleep. 07:24:38 two very awesome things: 07:24:42 1) the Mandelbrot set 07:24:56 2) Sibelius' symphony no. 1, movement 3 07:31:15 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:34:10 3) Psilocybin 07:34:51 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: blind). 07:35:03 4) People who can't count 07:35:34 6) Lies 07:36:37 5) Unordered lists 07:48:23 I think I have enough water for a few days 07:48:28 5 soda bottles filled with water 08:21:06 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:57:07 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:15:19 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 10:00:39 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 10:03:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:07:47 -!- ogrom has joined. 11:15:14 -!- ogrom has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:36:14 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:38:09 Sgeo: are you preparing for a nuclear holocaust? 11:42:34 http://asunnot.oikotie.fi/card/all-media?card_id=7524781 11:46:11 Linux beats Windows (other)! It’s truly the year of Linux on the desktop! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems 11:47:22 whoa, dude 11:50:06 Linux won't be ready for the desktop for at least 10 more years, unless there is someone who will grab it, twist it into something that people want and put it on machines everywhere 11:53:41 ion: What about OS/2? 11:55:42 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:55:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:55:58 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 12:12:29 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 12:13:23 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:25:48 https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/64582_10151277436123707_560425104_n.jpg 12:37:35 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 13:09:21 -!- boily has joined. 13:25:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:25:02 -!- Frooxius has quit (Client Quit). 13:25:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:29:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:30:38 @messages 13:30:38 You don't have any new messages. 13:57:12 -!- ogrom has joined. 13:59:55 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:01:42 -!- boily has joined. 14:02:07 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 14:07:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:08:31 -!- atriq has joined. 15:11:50 @ping 15:11:50 pong 15:19:25 so there are all those languages which are supposedly "stack-based" but that include instructions like "move top element to bottom" or "move bottom element to top" or "reverse stack" 15:19:44 shouldn't they be in the deque-based category? 15:20:11 Well, the data structure they use is *based* on a stack... 15:21:27 so it's stack-based-based 15:25:59 (also you could argue that if the reverse instruction has a linear complexity, it's definitely a stack, but if you're actually using a deque you can make it constant time) 15:28:28 -!- elliott has joined. 15:31:18 Complexity? You guys should work toward simplicity 15:32:13 Or simpliciality 15:32:36 no you shuold work towards being awesome 15:32:41 it's all anyone talks about these days 15:33:34 how do i do that 15:33:57 hi elliott 15:34:06 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 15:34:36 O(awesome) 15:35:21 shachaf: this django-confirmation library generates an email confirmation key like so: 15:35:23 confirmation_key = sha1(str(os.urandom(12)) + str(email_address)).hexdigest() 15:35:25 Phantom_Hoover, if you figure out a non-trivial way of having an algorithm that operates in O(awesome) time or space, I will be amazed 15:35:28 i cannot figure out why 15:35:49 what's non-trivial 15:36:18 Anything other than renaming "n" to "awesome" 15:37:07 rename n to e 15:37:12 kmc: It's probably not particularly terrible, as such. 15:37:15 O(n^2)! 15:37:17 I don't see the point of using the email there. 15:38:30 > 256^12 15:38:31 79228162514264337593543950336 15:38:52 i don't think it's worse than a 12 byte random confirmation key 15:39:04 which should be enough 15:39:14 but it's very cargo-culty :/ 15:39:41 Yes. 15:39:43 Hey, sha1 doesn't really decrease the entropy. Okay, it probably does a little. 15:41:57 yeah, the email is like the one piece of information you're guaranteed the attacker knows 15:42:08 in a typical "forging a signup from someone else" attack 15:42:28 if anything, hashing in the email makes it harder to notice if the other bit breaks somehow 15:42:41 like how Debian OpenSSL was throwing the PID into the entropy pot just for laffs 15:42:50 and that ended up being the *only* entropy 15:43:19 so Debian would only generate one of 2^16 certs, but that's enough that nobody noticed for a while :/ 15:44:34 I thought it also used the time 15:45:43 maybe 15:49:20 Entropy should be tracked through the type system or something 16:07:29 http://research.swtch.com/openssl is a good writeup of that fiasco 16:08:19 kmc: Is something like that included in your CTF? 16:09:53 maybe 16:10:12 the one i'm not doing 16:10:33 kmc: Well, you wrote up a list of suggestions, right? 16:10:38 Are you just going to let it go to waste? 16:10:40 yes 16:10:55 :'( 16:11:01 i can send them to you 16:11:56 hmm, but including the PID is a good idea if your process is going to fork() and you have no other way of getting separate entropy to each 16:12:03 but you should probably that thing I said instead 16:12:43 why doesn't OpenSSL on Linux read straight out of /dev/urandom 16:12:52 What does it do? 16:12:57 Ask you to supply randomness? 16:13:28 "As a general rule, /dev/urandom should be used for everything except long-lived GPG/SSL/SSH keys" 16:13:35 so okay, they would need some way to switch to /dev/random for those 16:13:40 and their API might not be expressive enough 16:13:49 shachaf: it has its own PRNG seeded from /dev/urandom 16:14:01 er actually /dev/random 16:14:11 perhaps once upon a time, the kernel PRNG for /dev/urandom was much worse 16:14:16 today I think it is considered to be really good 16:14:42 Is it considered really good cross-platform? 16:15:44 I haven't used OpenSSL personally but I hear its API is pretty low-level and bad. 16:16:41 so i have heard as well 16:16:57 That reminds me 16:17:03 I was going to write a Haskell interface for the Tumblr API at some point 16:17:10 hm, maybe the problem is that you can't get entropy estimates out of urandom 16:17:14 surely there must be an ioctl for that :) 16:18:14 root can feed entropy to /dev/random 16:20:36 kmc: I'd like to see the CTF thing if you're not going to be doing anything else with it. 16:25:18 shachaf: how? 16:25:28 How? 16:25:39 how feed 16:25:46 Oh. 16:25:50 I think just by writing into it. 16:26:09 heh 16:26:32 i find it kind of cute when redditors try to justify video game review scores by saying "well it's like at school, 70 is average" 16:26:40 but can you say how much entropy was in those bytes 16:26:45 you can with the OpenSSL API 16:27:00 but can you say it in the type system 16:27:13 because you know, 70% being 'average' isn't just tests being too easy 16:28:39 are you talking about raw 70% of questions answered correctly, or about a 70% grade after curving 16:28:50 because i don't see why either should mean the tests are too easy 16:29:38 why should writing a test where the average student can answer only 50% of the questions instead of 70% produce better educational outcomes? 16:29:51 well right 16:29:51 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:30:00 i shouldn't have said 'too', that was uncalled for 16:30:08 and the curve is arbitrary, you can put the average wherever you want 16:30:20 though i did have a few instructors who used deterministic curves made known to the class ahead of time 16:30:32 but it's certainly not an innate property of tests 16:30:36 sure 16:30:49 there were tests in college where the average student got 20% 16:31:17 and it's not even a standard thing for most educational systems 16:32:10 what i thought this internet thing was just for americans 16:32:13 who let all these foreigners on 16:33:13 i'm not actually sure how it works in england tbh 16:33:41 they had to introduce a new grade a while back because an A was worthless and the universities were just ignoring exam results 16:34:22 Yeah 16:34:32 Silly 16:34:33 on GCSE? or A-levels or what 16:34:47 A-levels 16:35:07 And GCSE but AFAIK the GCSEs are irrelevant as a qualification, they're that easy. 16:36:14 According to the BBC 25% of A-level entries got an A by the end of the 2000's so... 16:36:49 I'm pretty sure Oxford ignores them even now 16:36:49 Both, now 16:36:49 Not ASs 16:37:30 so what do you do to impress oxbridge then 16:37:31 IB? 16:38:30 they have interviews, for one thing 16:38:43 i took all the AP classes and everyone told me how great it was to get college credit for them 16:38:46 and often require relevant work experience 16:38:52 and then i went to a college that didn't accept a single fucking one 16:39:23 I should probably apply to university. 16:39:33 I think now is the time to do it. 16:39:40 apply to warwick we can be university friends 16:39:47 it'll probably be cheaper than the us, too! 16:41:17 school in the US is too damn expensive 16:41:29 though the effect is overblown by foreign commentators 16:41:38 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:42:10 when they say "omg it costs $40,000 a year to go to school in the US" they mean "to go to the most elite private schools, if you get zero financial aid" 16:43:10 Phantom_Hoover: How much does it cost to go to Warwick? 16:43:47 i'm not sure it's a bad thing to let the super rich spend a lot of money on education, as long as there's a system of taxation and public schools to ensure everyone gets a good education 16:44:23 but it's probably a bad thing that private schools have such a monopoly on the top tier of higher education in the US 16:44:55 there's only one public school that competes basically 16:45:14 Either £14k or £18k a year, depending on the degree. 16:45:21 n.b. i have been advised that "private school" means something crazy in the UK, please to substituting for appropriate crazy word, thanks in advance 16:45:38 Phantom_Hoover: I'm an EU citizen, by the way. 16:46:06 £9k then 16:46:29 Free if you go to Scotland. 16:46:40 that's about a thousand pounds more than my school 16:46:45 assuming you're counting tuition only 16:46:55 Yes. 16:47:17 Although St Andrews does say 'EU domiciled'. 16:47:20 I pay about $10500 (canadian) per year 16:47:34 maybe closer to $11000 16:47:44 I don't like to think about it too much :P 16:49:14 kmc: the one public school being berkeley? 16:49:17 yeah 16:49:28 Student loans here are kind of ridiculous though. 16:49:42 I could probably go to Berkeley as an in-state student now. 16:49:49 -!- elliott has joined. 16:50:19 They don't affect your credit score, you repay like 2% of your income over £21k and if you manage not to pay it off before you retire it gets written off. 16:50:54 Phantom_Hoover: this is some silly accounting dodge on the part of the govt right 16:51:08 so that they can hand out money for university but keep it on the books as something they are owed back 16:51:13 15:42:41: like how Debian OpenSSL was throwing the PID into the entropy pot just for laffs 16:51:16 I think so. 16:51:19 Didn't upstream OpenSSL do this, though? 16:51:25 It's just that Debian accidentally disabled all the other entropy sources. 16:51:36 Especially funny when they raised tuition fees as part of 'austerity measures' when it just means they end up paying universities more. 16:51:46 elliott: See kmc's link above: http://research.swtch.com/openssl 16:51:52 elliott: yeah 16:52:34 16:13:28: "As a general rule, /dev/urandom should be used for everything except long-lived GPG/SSL/SSH keys" 16:52:34 16:13:35: so okay, they would need some way to switch to /dev/random for those 16:52:44 kmc: I thought /dev/urandom was actually recommended for cryptographic stuff over /dev/random? 16:52:53 elliott: *over* /dev/random? 16:52:54 well i'm quoting man 4 random there 16:53:10 16:18:14: root can feed entropy to /dev/random 16:53:12 As far as I know when you're not concerned about blocking /dev/random is generally better. 16:53:19 man 4 man, man 4 woman, man 4 random 16:53:20 IIRC any user can write to /dev/random? 16:53:27 It just magically discards the non-random bits or something. 16:53:30 Maybe that's /dev/urandom. 16:53:37 how do you detect which bits are non-random? 16:53:42 shachaf: -- also that's what I thought but then I saw someone say that /dev/urandom was recommended or something. 16:53:46 It was on LWN so it looked authoritative. 16:53:50 copumpkin: compare them to the output of a PRNG 16:53:57 copumpkin: Magic, I guess. I don't know how randomness or cryptography or anything works. 16:54:01 elliott: For most things urandom is good enough. 16:54:05 But I remember hearing something like that. 16:54:12 coppro: so you discard everything with overwhelming likelihood? :P 16:54:14 copumpkin: The 0 bits are non-random, the 1 bits are random. 16:54:19 shachaf: makes sense 16:54:29 shachaf: Why are you repeating yourself? I know, and that's what I thought too, but then I heard someone say otherwise and it sounded like that was a common myth or something. I don't know. 16:54:36 The 2 bits you just discard. 16:54:37 copumpkin: no, you compare each successive bit and only keep the random ones 16:54:51 coming this summer: Myth or Manpage? 16:55:04 elliott: My imperssion was that /dev/urandom is usually recommended for most cryptographic because it's "good enough". 16:55:12 And you really don't want to block in most cases. 16:55:27 so if /dev/urandom gives 0010101010110, and a PRNG gives 0101101011010, you know that the random bits are 01010110 16:55:46 Anyway I can write to /dev/random here. 16:55:48 As non-rfoot. 16:55:49 root. 16:55:53 o.O 16:56:28 so it probably takes your bits, but doesn't increment the entropy estimate 16:57:34 Is there some part of the randomness pool that's reserved for particular users? 16:57:40 So that no one can DoS /dev/random 16:58:39 /dev/umad 16:58:47 -!- barts__ has joined. 16:59:57 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:00:33 kmc: I didn't get to sleep all night. :-( 17:00:39 what should I do 17:01:10 shachaf: down five red bulls 17:01:21 barts__: r u cheater 17:01:42 -!- barts_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:02:27 i am barts_ 17:02:32 -!- Bike has joined. 17:02:51 is barts_ cheater 17:03:37 is this dog? 17:03:47 yes barts__ is cheater 17:04:01 shachaf: if you gaze for long into the abyss 17:04:39 it is pretty obvious 17:04:57 barts__: either say yes or say no 17:05:15 -!- atriq has joined. 17:05:43 if i don't, will you freeze forever, stuck on blocking input? 17:06:31 maybe 17:06:47 elliott, is it too late to change my mind about accepting the responsibility of choosing the featured language? 17:06:49 I answer _|_ 17:08:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:08:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:13:07 barts__ is definitely cheater, btw 17:13:20 no real reason in asking because he/she's just going to dodge the question indefinitely 17:13:53 shachaf: why not 17:14:28 hey let's all flip out and lose our shit completely because somebody who may or may not be cheater has said three inoffensive things 17:14:42 am i winning at #esoteric yet 17:14:47 kmc: ? 17:15:12 instead we should just let blatant ban evasion be an insult to our intelligence by pretending it's not obvious 17:15:13 hey kmc shut up about you not getting how bans work 17:15:15 agreed kmc 17:15:27 * shachaf is not insulted, only amused. 17:15:38 I don't care if cheater is here. 17:15:40 i thought this was the channel for whichever subset of ##electronics, #esoteric, and #haskell-blah would put up with me 17:16:19 ais523, ban barts__ if you know he's cheater, he was banned for a reason 17:17:10 or did i get that wrong, kmc 17:17:12 Phantom_Hoover: well he's clearly a past-regular 17:18:04 He could be cpressey for all we know 17:18:11 yes 17:18:18 cpressey connecting from germany 17:18:18 (he probably isn't cpressey) 17:18:25 using cheater's isp 17:18:30 Phantom_Hoover, where am I connecting from? 17:18:52 if we banned cpressey by mistake, thinking he was someone else, it'd be easy to prove his identity and get him unbanned again 17:20:39 atriq, italy? 17:20:46 Spai 17:20:46 n 17:20:48 spain 17:20:54 the max planck instutute *is* in germany 17:20:55 bleh, you answered before I figured it out 17:20:57 thank you ais i was confused there for a second 17:20:57 that was so close, too 17:21:06 Specifically, Ibiza 17:21:20 i thought he was connecting from spai and was answering in short form to an earlier query 17:21:40 specifically, valencia 17:22:07 at least, that's where the ISP reports, it can be inaccurate 17:22:30 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 17:22:55 La Presidente Hotel, Portinatx, Ibiza 17:22:57 OK ANYWAY 17:23:05 If any of you want to stalk me 17:23:10 we were previously talking about cheater and his blatant ban evasion 17:23:27 atriq: spagnolo? parli italiano? 17:23:36 barts__, non 17:23:38 atriq: if it's a hotel IP, then the other guests in the hotel have been surprisingly well behaved 17:23:53 hey guys 17:23:55 atriq: scusa 17:24:07 barts__, tu stinko es 17:24:46 maybe one of the ops could actually give a damn about channel administration for once 17:25:02 e "puzza", atriq :) 17:25:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:26:10 barts__, ¿eres infiel_? 17:26:24 non capisco 17:26:57 ¿Está Cheater_? 17:27:02 scusa 17:27:13 non conosco infidel 17:27:35 Usted no va a responder en Inglés, no se contestará en español ... 17:27:47 Es casi como si tuviera algo que ocultar. 17:28:17 jajaj 17:28:26 non c'e credo.. 17:29:38 vuoi esplicare? 17:32:39 @ping 17:32:39 pong 17:35:39 scusa atriq, c'e un problem'? 17:37:58 butts 17:38:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:38:16 kmc: oh, excuse-me, kmc, have I misquoted you above ?. 17:39:24 -!- rapido has joined. 17:40:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:43:17 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:46:05 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:57:31 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Most_ever_Brainfuckiest_Fuck_you_Brain_fucker_Fuck 18:01:27 Is that turing complete? 18:03:09 barts__: you are indeed still being useless 18:03:13 why /shouldn't/ I ban you again 18:03:28 one of the pixels on my screen is MOVING 18:04:44 it's yellowish and six-legged 18:04:57 Arc_Koen: are you sure it's a pixel 18:05:01 rather than, say, an insect? 18:05:10 i made contributions to the esolang wiki. 18:05:42 well it was the right size 18:06:03 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 18:06:06 up until I noticed it was moving it was a well-behaved pixel 18:06:30 Arc_Koen: Did it change color depending on the contents of your display? 18:06:37 barts__: were they useful? 18:06:50 also, under what name? 18:06:53 I wasn't paying much attention to it 18:06:59 under the name Arc_Koen 18:07:10 he named his latest language under my suggestion 18:07:26 is that you http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Arc_Koen 18:07:34 no it is you 18:07:51 i just said under what name the latest contribution was 18:07:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:08:12 (though http://esolangs.org/wiki/Circlefuck indeed had its name suggested by barts) 18:11:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:13:24 I was thinking about adding an emmental-like instruction-rewriting feature to my circlefuck implementation 18:13:33 then I realized I hadn't implemented it 18:15:21 you could then call it "La ronde des fromages" 18:15:31 which is "the roundness of the cheese" 18:16:42 which plays on your language's topology and where it's derived from. 18:17:16 alternatively, "larondedesfromagesfuck". 18:20:31 i must depart. 18:27:12 hey do you guys see any difference between http://esolangs.org/wiki/Braincrash and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbrain ? 18:27:53 appart from the fact that one uses +-><.,[] and the other ><+-.,[] 18:30:18 be back later 18:33:31 Arc_Koen: this reminds me of BrainFuck 18:33:40 or was it just Brainfuck, with a capital B? 18:33:50 it's a BF derivative that doesn't change any instructions at all 18:33:55 the sort of extreme of pointless BF derivatives 18:41:13 branfuck 18:41:19 there's no i in branfuck 18:43:32 branefuck 18:44:18 the m-theory esolang 18:44:28 bainfuck capital? 18:45:20 banefuck, the hip new batman slashfic 18:45:48 I believe, in fact, that there isn't already an 11-dimensional esolang. Or other sort of language for that matter. 18:47:29 is Jafet zzo38 18:47:53 With our patented Planck units, creating programs will be as simple as nailing two-by-fours together. Which is to say it's incredibly error-prone and involves manual work. 18:48:02 Am I not zzo38 18:51:34 http://hint.fm/wind/ wow this is pretty 18:51:37 -!- Sanky has joined. 18:52:06 yes 18:52:08 also sort of scary 18:52:30 I'm happy I'm not in NY 18:53:26 my parents have friends in annapolis 18:53:42 havn't thought to ask about them though 18:54:41 what's the deal with that big turbulent patch north of charlott 18:54:44 *charlotte 18:58:46 * FireFly is in NY 18:58:59 Poorly-timed week-long holiday, this 19:00:28 how bad is it 19:01:05 -!- tinkerer has joined. 19:01:06 Rainy and somewhat windy at the moment, though as I've understood it'll get worse during the evening/night 19:01:39 are you in NYC? 19:02:00 Yup, on manhattan 19:04:04 it must suck that there's no subway 19:05:08 they shut it down here too (boston) 19:10:26 kmc: your link is incredibly slow to load :( 19:14:04 "The entire execution unit for muxcomp64 would be extremely small, very close to 16K transistors (not gates, transistors)." I want to buy it please. 19:15:49 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:15:55 Hello 19:17:10 hey shouldn't we try something similar to corewar but with esolangs? 19:17:36 like a giant funge area 19:18:05 it has been tried 19:18:24 !bfjoust 19:18:25 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 19:19:19 -!- rapido has joined. 19:20:30 hrm http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/breakdown.txt 19:38:44 Arc_Koen: BF Joust is awesome, you should play it 19:39:31 EgoBot: ​Score for Arc_Koen_koen_very_unsubtle_1_bfjoust: 0.0 19:40:01 is there something I did not understand? my program was >>>>>>>>>(++>)*21 19:40:08 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:43:15 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 19:52:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:06:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:07:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:19:41 -!- tinkerer has left ("Already Gone"). 20:41:59 -!- rapido has joined. 20:46:48 -!- rapido has quit (Client Quit). 20:52:20 -!- rapido has joined. 20:53:56 shachaf: isn't it great how programmers use the term "Unicode" to mean alternately "non-ASCII", "non-ISO-8859-1", "UTF-8", "UTF-8 but not if any of the bytes are less that 0x80", or (very occasionally) "Unicode"? 20:54:08 not if all of the bytes are less than* 21:00:14 -!- rapido has quit (Quit: rapido). 21:00:39 it also often refers to one of UCS-2 or UTF-16 21:02:20 ah yes, in Windows-land and Java-land 21:02:26 places to avoid for sure 21:03:54 I guess the worst part is that it usually really means "either UCS-2 or UTF-16", without actually knowing which one 21:04:12 yep 21:05:38 I may enjoy being pedantic a little too much but I'm also pretty sure that character encoding is one of those areas where you can either be pedantic or get confused all the time. 21:06:07 or not be confused but make software which just doesn't work for people who don't speak English 21:06:22 indeed 21:07:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:08:23 my litmus test when developing is that if japanese goes through without getting garbled, then I shouldn't worry at all about encoding. 21:09:13 thus efficiently testing only the japanese section of your encoding 21:09:40 eh a lot of existing japanese texts are in weird encodings though 21:09:59 your software shouldn't be obliged to support EUC-JP or Shift-JIS 21:10:13 Japan moreso than other places has not switched over to the glorious Unicode new world order 21:10:23 probably because their shit actually kinda worked before 21:10:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:10:30 Jafet: Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck × Circlefuck is 11-dimensional. 21:10:33 except if you wanted to send files between Windows and UNIX of course 21:10:36 that's kinda the point. 21:11:16 japanese script should be fairly trivial once you decode it though, and character encoding is just the very first little step 21:11:35 japan has single houses with 50 and 60 hz installations in 230 and 120V each, all using the same kind of outlet. 21:12:02 haha true 21:12:03 they're no fans of standards. 21:12:12 yeah that's true olsner 21:12:19 no joining, no combining characters, no case (!) 21:12:30 probably some normalization though 21:12:41 good luck counting. 21:12:57 there is that han unification thingy 21:12:58 barts__: more like the US is no fans of existing standards when we burn down your country and rebuild it 21:13:11 unless you define a kanji to be S. 21:13:45 for a while there was talk of making Iraq use CDMA 21:13:54 i don't think they actually went through with it 21:13:58 aren't they on thurayya? 21:13:59 i.e. sabotage their communications network? 21:14:47 it was considered highly scandalous in the USA that some US govt money might go to systems built by COMMUNIST TERRORIST-APPEASING FRANCE AND GERMANY 21:15:08 you know back when were were really upset that they tried to talk us out of shooting ourselves in the foot in the most enormous way possible 21:19:13 i am 次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次0% sure this can be done in japanese 21:20:18 even 次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次次0% 21:20:42 next-next-next-next-next-0% ????? 21:20:49 yes. 21:20:56 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:21:11 but what does that have to do with anything 21:21:13 * boily is confused as usual, and we're definitely not Friday yet. 21:21:31 barts__: japeano numbers? 21:21:40 lol 21:22:02 piano numbers 21:22:06 ############0 21:22:21 yeah, that's enough 21:22:29 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 21:22:46 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b barts*!*@*. 21:22:52 -!- ais523 has kicked barts__ User terminated!. 21:23:54 I should really change the default kick message 21:24:01 i like it 21:24:10 it's very iron fist 21:24:11 why's he banned? 21:24:25 being cheater 21:24:36 originally, a combination of no useful contribution and harassing a subset of channel regulars 21:24:42 later on, for ban evasion 21:24:52 but he hadn't been here for a while so I wanted to see if he reformed 21:25:25 I don't really understand bad trolls 21:25:35 good trolling can be entertaining 21:25:36 that wasn't really 21:25:49 maybe cheater is just naturally annoying 21:26:04 and he pretends to be a troll to act like he's totally in charge 21:26:21 hmm 21:26:26 /I'm/ naturally annoying 21:26:29 but I try to suppress it 21:26:34 rather than revel in it 21:26:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:26:42 you should get "finnished" into the kick message somehow 21:26:53 I changed it 21:26:55 -!- ais523 has kicked ais523 I don't have a better default kick reason, but if you're being kicked, you should know why. 21:26:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:27:08 it's a very ais523 kick reason 21:27:45 ais523: how about "hi" 21:28:02 that makes a good non-default kick reason 21:28:08 but it'd only work on someone who knew what it meant 21:29:33 (short summary for people who don't know: "hi" as a non sequitur is a threat) 21:29:49 (or at least, an indication of disapproval) 21:29:59 a threat of what? further conversation? 21:30:34 it's not a particularly specific threat 21:30:45 I think what it usually threatens is more his 21:31:05 and possibly a breach of friendship if the offending behaviour happens too long 21:31:30 `? hi 21:31:41 hi? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:32:08 OK, I think that response makes a decent threat, too 21:32:15 specifically, the smiley 21:32:21 (yes I know it does that for all unrecognised input) 21:33:44 the smiley looks a bit like a lop-eyed zombie coming to embrace and devour you 21:34:24 (while repeating hi over and over) 21:41:18 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 22:06:03 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:24:08 -!- augur has joined. 22:29:36 -!- augur_ has joined. 22:32:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:33:00 zombie little girls coming at you saying "Hi. Wanna play with me?" and what your really hear is BRAAAAAAINS 22:44:27 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:50:55 hmm, I wonder if they have or could release macgyver in HD 22:51:21 ... not that it would be worth it or anything 22:57:42 be careful what you ask for 22:57:43 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:57:48 imdb does say it was filmed on "Film" 22:57:52 imagine if they remade it 22:57:56 in 3d 23:03:30 shachaf: Apparently Zephyr uses the same "UTF-8 or maybe ISO-8859-1" encoding that's popular on IRC :/ 23:04:26 I wonder what the prevalence is in ISO-8859 texts of byte sequences that are also valid UTF-8 23:04:29 probably pretty low 23:05:08 it helps that half (?) of the UTF-8 continuation bytes are unprintable control characters in ISO-8859 (though not in Windows-1252) 23:11:02 Yay ♥ UTF-8 23:11:37 kmc: I've never used Zephyr. 23:12:02 Do you have to be at MIT to use it or something? I couldn't work it out once. 23:12:19 it might've been better to use the ascii characters for continuation bytes, to make it more obvious when you're mixing encodings the wrong way 23:13:21 that would be a bit less stateless though 23:13:33 just flip the msb? 23:13:49 if you land at a random point in a UTF-8 byte stream, you can recover within one character 23:14:09 not so if continuation bytes alias with ASCII characters 23:14:55 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 23:16:26 UTF-8 is pretty nice. 23:16:30 you're right that UTF-8 being a superset of ASCII makes some problems less obvious though 23:16:40 especially for programmers of the "i speak English and it works for me" mindset 23:17:05 the people who always feel put-upon when others want "crazy characters" 23:17:06 I don't think UTF-8 would be nearly as common if it didn't have that property. 23:17:08 yeah 23:17:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:19:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:19:40 kmc: Why can't all those weird people just speak English? 23:19:45 It would solve so many problems. 23:19:49 yep 23:19:57 (When I say "weird people" I mean mathematicians, of course.) 23:20:01 obviously 23:20:11 shachaf: So did edwardk decide yet? 23:20:20 elliott: I didn't talk to him. 23:20:30 I just woke up, man! 23:21:27 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:29:41 it's hurricaning