< 1351641796 264562 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1351643348 136700 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1351643809 605314 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351643855 82061 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source
< 1351643861 480304 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351643863 548175 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fungot died
< 1351643910 974505 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1351643932 32856 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome noooodl
< 1351643944 567829 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks
< 1351643957 91052 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351643960 628102 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: where's hackego
< 1351643984 982252 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't welcome this guy without hackego
< 1351643997 135236 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego is actually online just not in #esoteric
< 1351644044 118207 :carado!~user4539@78.250.158.29 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1351646644 279220 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, Codu went down 'cause they moved the box, and apparently not everything came up right.
< 1351646654 812287 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I win Halloween: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4024164996595&l=e0321b07c2
< 1351646664 12067 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not acceptable fix it thanks
< 1351646730 362822 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351646763 716182 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome noooodl
< 1351646768 262954 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooodl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
< 1351646793 678386 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: thanks!!
< 1351646813 198625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODL
< 1351646817 664166 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODL: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
< 1351646820 515530 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WeLcOmE noodle
< 1351646825 757672 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoOdLe: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
< 1351646833 918960 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a fantastic feature
< 1351646838 357435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`﻿ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ noodle
< 1351646844 471032 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ﻿ＷＥＬＣＯＭＥ: not found
< 1351646848 244882 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1351646849 253358 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!!!!!
< 1351646851 253068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`﻿ｗｅｌｃｏｍｅ noodle
< 1351646854 788362 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ﻿ｗｅｌｃｏｍｅ: not found
< 1351646858 343418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i doing it incorrectly
< 1351646859 109961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin
< 1351646862 942980 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? \ @ \ No \ WELCOME \ WeLcOmE \ addquote \ addquotee \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ delquotee \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping \ prefixes
< 1351646867 918957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to it
< 1351646874 131472 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dddid someone remove stupid unicode welcome
< 1351646880 412895 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss stupid unicode welcome :(
< 1351646895 905209 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ｍｏｎｑｙ：　ｓｔｕｐｉｄ？？？？？
< 1351646927 990273 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm curious: what's `No
< 1351646934 558529 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`No
< 1351646937 659957 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1351646939 199334 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that!!!!!!
< 1351646944 588988 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooooooah
< 1351646945 935014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`No output.
< 1351646946 118951 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@
< 1351646949 160151 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1351646952 229624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`@ isn't @
< 1351646958 251567 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1351646967 747231 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? @
< 1351646971 533762 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​@? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1351646977 975423 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1351646996 828696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? noooooooooodl
< 1351647001 735555 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooodl? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1351647009 687479 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no entry on @ it should be that quote about @. the one with the vapour.
< 1351647021 685829 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hatesgeo
< 1351647024 959025 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hatesgeo? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1351647025 143892 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the other one
< 1351647032 297954 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like a great command
< 1351647041 44006 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the `? command is our learndb
< 1351647043 28770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hatesgeo
< 1351647051 321326 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't hatesgeo the one that pings everyone
< 1351647053 203154 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i'm glad this exists
< 1351647054 888043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh probably
< 1351647055 454023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1351647063 939052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it seems to be broken
< 1351647068 683521 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what my entry is nowadays
< 1351647070 265219 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? monqy
< 1351647073 480585 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details.
< 1351647076 333923 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1351647081 273296 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip hatesgeo
< 1351647091 353689 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? elliott
< 1351647094 941675 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
< 1351647105 639827 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nooooooooodle
< 1351647108 542060 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooodle? ¯\(°_o)/¯
< 1351647114 883454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt know
< 1351647133 8711 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? sgeo
< 1351647136 487425 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo invented Metaplace sex.
< 1351647161 545505 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most important sgeo info on demand 24/7
< 1351648284 331902 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a metaplace?
< 1351648772 768290 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote metaplace
< 1351648776 493406 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :345) <Sgeo> I was more of a pervert in Metaplace than Utherverse  <Sgeo> I invented Metaplace sex >.>
< 1351649264 672951 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi monqy
< 1351649280 803769 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you like lenses
< 1351649302 238711 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye
< 1351649312 89170 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog metacircular
< 1351649345 473530 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output.
< 1351649379 267497 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hi
< 1351649381 929833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog meta-circular
< 1351649385 406318 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: hi
< 1351649394 632977 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i've met shachaf 
< 1351649401 496200 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have !
< 1351649415 114616 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2010-10-05.txt:17:49:26: <alise> ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-circular_evaluator
< 1351649418 258727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's nooodl
< 1351649429 59638 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know
< 1351649433 894072 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask monqy 
< 1351649467 68344 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask elliott
< 1351649475 425920 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hi
< 1351649501 141255 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: is nooodl belgian :'(
< 1351649514 83789 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes i'm sorry
< 1351649541 817147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do it nooodl
< 1351649544 250207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be belgian
< 1351649609 605744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether there's a reasonable way to extend the idea of lenses/traversals/folds to imperative languages.
< 1351649636 163583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like first-class lvalues with loops and things.
< 1351649851 506092 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1351649860 44312 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: how
< 1351649876 58199 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how yourself!!!
< 1351649968 498471 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.124.106 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1351650000 410830 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351650001 303983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: scrambled!!!!
< 1351650203 442463 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1351650279 489454 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1351650289 779809 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont get it shachaf i dont get it
< 1351650533 202946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^scramble shachaf
< 1351650536 773623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip fungot
< 1351650603 378090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip elliott
< 1351650703 861883 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1351650794 573099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip monqy
< 1351650810 894972 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1351652945 471163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1351653029 396098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351655694 620409 :TeruFSX_!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351655706 489773 :TeruFSX!~quassel@65-128-188-237.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1351655824 795467 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1351658540 547831 :Gregor!codu@codu.org QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1351660056 548588 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351660205 771979 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351661599 762254 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1351667452 262090 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1351667685 481487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1351669734 810623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :
< 1351669910 587002 :ineiros!~itniemin@li271-145.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351670614 262140 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1351672934 706513 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1351673223 920704 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351674447 678371 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351674892 741069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351675972 98608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :help
< 1351675979 860483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just sent this by one of the other teachers on this Java module:
< 1351675981 395508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2) why do the students have to create both a constructor and setters to set the same values ?"
< 1351675995 125151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can understand a student asking that because they don't understand Java
< 1351675996 952737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a teacher?
< 1351675998 31081 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351676003 691328 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1351676006 87610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: the question isn't really Java-specific)
< 1351676007 548170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnotherTest
< 1351676015 249624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm raging at the question "2) why do the students have to create both a constructor and setters to set the same values ?"
< 1351676028 700078 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was sent to me by someone who's supposed to be helping me teach the course I teach
< 1351676038 746491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is this teacher suspiciously tall, always seen wearing a coat, and has an unusual number of limbs?
< 1351676049 305640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a question that's both basic, and shows a lack of understanding of OO principles
< 1351676052 68986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no
< 1351676079 566620 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are there imperative languages with an equivalent of lenses/traversals?
< 1351676084 683127 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would that look like?
< 1351676110 681133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lenses"? not sure I understand your terminology here
< 1351676132 11202 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes called functional references.
< 1351676136 587673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like first-class lvalues.
< 1351676150 952659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A traversal is like a lens that can refer to more than one value.
< 1351676176 561302 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can say world.monsters[0].appendages[1].position.x += 1
< 1351676186 549688 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can say world.monsters[all].appendages[all].position.x += 1
< 1351676242 237706 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imo the constructor-setter duplication is not really an OO principle, but a fundamental issue with the model of OO that poses no easy solution
< 1351676248 845046 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it gets ingrained
< 1351676267 961187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but anyone teaching OO languages should at least know it exists
< 1351676275 608944 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I won't disagree with
< 1351676277 581812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking why it's necessary from a philosophical point of view is an interesting question
< 1351676309 651898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one obvious semi-solution is just to get the constructor to call the setters
< 1351676324 118699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, in general, initializing something and setting something aren't the same operation
< 1351676328 192324 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the same values". Initial values != Values you pass to setters?
< 1351676354 988364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, initializing is linear, setting isn't unless it returns the old value)
< 1351676376 455338 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about not creating a lot of setters
< 1351676410 270927 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather creating methods that actually do something more than just setting a value and checking a precondition
< 1351676420 747626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not creating setters is fine, you just end up with a read-only object
< 1351676423 293093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that too is fine
< 1351676435 496380 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read-only objects are often good enough
< 1351676442 832160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351676482 24174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I was asking for a read-write object in this case
< 1351676482 776872 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could have a method that changes some object, but doesn't directly change one field
< 1351676483 45647 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
< 1351676490 383490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: what about me?
< 1351676508 442499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, weird to see you talking about messages because you joined, rather than because the person you're talking to joined
< 1351676583 827319 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, if you had a Timer, you could have an "advance" method; it wouldn't directly set a field but rather change a number of fields
< 1351676605 219190 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's probably a better option than just making a lot of setters
< 1351676633 466390 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, I think it's a higher level of abstraction
< 1351676657 894690 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your data is encapsulated better
< 1351676726 625406 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, that's the problem, the initialization/modification distinction is lame :(
< 1351676790 989261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I don't really think so
< 1351676801 562219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine an object that holds a filehandle as a property
< 1351676809 174233 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it exists for pragmatic reasons
< 1351676809 644837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the filehandle is mutable in that you can replace it with another one
< 1351676821 848107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the object is responsible for holding the filehandle open and closing it when it's done
< 1351676827 669610 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but languages with immutable data handle things so much nicer
< 1351676829 866031 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a setter method needs to call close, then open a file
< 1351676839 93412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an initializer just needs to open
< 1351676848 630085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we should move to a paradigm with initializers and uninitializers?
< 1351676861 845391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the constructor calls the initializer, the destructor calls the uninitializer
< 1351676864 839938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a setter calls both
< 1351676879 737653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're private, then the field is an always-initialized field
< 1351676888 733406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if additionally the setter is private or nonexistent, then the field is immutable
< 1351677029 99999 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting
< 1351677035 307470 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems more natural
< 1351677054 480161 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, you then have room for optimized setters
< 1351677083 524890 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :("reinitializers"?)
< 1351677094 840438 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are a derived concept that aren't necessary
< 1351677167 508779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a sufficiently good type system, you can track the initializedness of the fields in the object statically, btw
< 1351677184 947937 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Anarchy can do that, probably OCaml can as well but I'm less sure about that)
< 1351677370 777828 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But what if you want to leave something unitialized on construction?
< 1351677426 646670 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess that means your design is bad
< 1351677429 357220 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can do this with a poor type system too
< 1351677433 741303 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's painful
< 1351677440 800777 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*coughjavacough*)
< 1351677457 466571 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: I think the intent is that it's like Java, where you cannot use an unitialized field, not where you can't have them
< 1351677478 156877 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if you want to allocate memory, but not yet on construction?
< 1351677546 258808 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, something like C++'s std::vector. In that case "push_back" can allocate memory, and the constructor doesn't have to allocate memory
< 1351677552 253200 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I just not getting this?
< 1351677599 413042 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: The idea would be that there are two types of int. Initialized int and uninitialized int
< 1351677611 832942 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so int i; is uninitialized
< 1351677619 736797 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int j = i; is an error because you can't read from an uninitialized type
< 1351677645 991807 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :int i; if(true) i = 1; int j = i;
< 1351677670 949128 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: that's the problem with that approach
< 1351677671 833431 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if true wasn't known at compile time
< 1351677676 892736 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*coughjavacough*
< 1351677704 165268 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :int i; if(some condition that depends on input) i = 1; int j = i;
< 1351677707 228712 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have to be checked at runtime, sometimes
< 1351677737 272691 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1351677747 189250 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can rewrite the program to something like int i; boolean _init_i = false; if(!_init_i) error(); j = i;
< 1351677757 239702 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hope it usually compiles away
< 1351677793 452391 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would leave you with problematic code though
< 1351677823 741460 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh today is going to suuuuuuck
< 1351678174 633152 :Gregor!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351678564 926518 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
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< 1351681249 360201 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: Failure in UniqueIdTest: Expected 1B2M2Y8AsgTpgAmY7PhCfg== but was 1B2M2Y8AsgTpgAmY7PhCfg==
< 1351681255 948336 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that different?
< 1351681275 204197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whitespace?
< 1351681302 385597 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it fails, those were not unique!
< 1351681372 904954 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes it has a trailing newline
< 1351681391 965316 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how that is possible though
< 1351681393 228956 :sivoais!~zaki@199.19.225.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
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< 1351681992 760782 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351682380 242720 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351682386 738082 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351682405 687482 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't know why I'm bothering to update Thunderbird
< 1351682405 960265 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :atriq: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1351682407 542478 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never used it
< 1351682411 483169 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wow
< 1351682440 307129 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Okay, I'll give that a look
< 1351682440 532971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted.
< 1351682821 690807 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I transliterated a toy parser library written in Haskell into Python for shits and giggles. It expects splitting a list/string like a = foo[0]; b = foo[1:] is free and it probably also overflows the stack with long inputs, so it’s not useful for anything real. It’s for comparison to the original code for a friend who knows Python and is interested of Haskell. https://gist.github.com/3970500
< 1351682863 900797 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python calls them lists too, they must be lists too
< 1351684804 817178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1351684909 759183 :atriq!~Taneb@115.Red-80-24-138.staticIP.rima-tde.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1351689718 982233 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.introversion.co.uk/darwinia/extras/adverts/idea%203.jpg
< 1351689731 528134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear christ, introversion almost used this as an ad for darwinia
< 1351689931 537173 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is darwinia a baby????
< 1351689953 176038 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :obv.
< 1351689964 797634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all an allegory
< 1351689992 285222 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the virus is an allegory for stds
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< 1351707859 63706 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: with instruction-redefining, do you also mean the definition of new instructions?
< 1351707877 489937 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably
< 1351707919 303115 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you take emmental for instance, all 256 'char' symbols are an instruction
< 1351707931 173516 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except by default all but a few are nops
< 1351707970 452506 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when thinking about the name of "braincurses" I thought maybe you could have a language named BrainCensored
< 1351707976 763332 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :So "instruction redefining" would be a form of extensible programming?
< 1351707987 466360 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what extensible programming i
< 1351707988 624481 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s
< 1351708037 334677 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in braincensored every time you use an instruction it gets censored - you're not allowed to use it any longer
< 1351708042 615602 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, programming to extend the programming language by extending the compiler and run-time environment I guess
< 1351708046 461811 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there would be an instruction to define new instructions
< 1351708104 5791 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so before using an instruction you'd have to define a new instruction to do what the old instruction did (but you'd have to do that for the instruction-redefining instruction too...)
< 1351708115 418487 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: doesnt seem difficult to use, just annoying
< 1351708137 941088 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess if you can find some technique to use it then yes
< 1351708151 288222 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :many esoteric languages aren't actually fun to use, though
< 1351708167 317225 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just always keep creating instructions that 1) do the thing you want and 2)create the next instruction like this
< 1351708179 767290 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes something like that
< 1351708194 605416 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd have to do that for the instruction that creates instructions, too
< 1351708209 143875 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know yet what semantics it would have
< 1351708220 232271 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be interesting or it can be boring :)
< 1351708259 593786 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: what about a category "Extensible programming paradigm"
< 1351708271 597206 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than instruction redefining
< 1351708283 466755 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should propose that on the talk page
< 1351708293 219673 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go for now but I will look into extensible programming
< 1351708419 1418 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :done
< 1351709864 840275 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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< 1351710555 21462 :ogrom!~del@gprs-inet-65-22.elisa.ee QUIT :Client Quit
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< 1351712445 770822 :AnotherTest!~tim@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
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< 1351712952 511227 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
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< 1351713488 692097 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric
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< 1351715336 801151 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.171 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1351715387 373726 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Codeweavers Crossover for free. http://flock.codeweavers.com/
< 1351715700 218427 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-35.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1351716365 50149 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you or your loved ones are affected by Hurricane Sandy, please return to this page (sandy.codeweavers.com) starting on Thursday, November 1, 2012 to learn how to get your FREE copy of CrossOver. We will be maintaining this offer until ConEd gets the lights back on and the trains start running again. We are thinking about you, we hope that you and your loved ones are safe.
< 1351716365 281959 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
< 1351716367 968350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an odd giveaway-what
< 1351716458 189422 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hilarious
< 1351716466 128553 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i get it or not?
< 1351716962 79715 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sooooooo, basically, they're offering free copies to anyone NOT affected by the hurricane, since it's online-only and only while the electricity's out.
< 1351717052 577245 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you have to prove you were affected
< 1351717055 944440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they are offering 0 copies for free
< 1351717097 623981 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha, exactly.
< 1351717101 40329 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clever!
< 1351718005 843401 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1351718014 689380 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Does your ham contain human genes?  You wouldn't know unless it's labeled.  Vote for Prop 37"
< 1351718017 666640 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid future
< 1351718051 576811 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an odd giveaway
< 1351718066 422752 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's true that many more people in NYC are without trains than without power
< 1351718086 74499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what the subway network looks like tomorrow: http://www.mta.info/sites/default/files/pdf/HurricaneRecoveryMapOct312012.pdf
< 1351718111 684085 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351718302 721920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me how much forewarning there was for Sandy?
< 1351718357 243471 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet realised it existed about five days before it happened i think
< 1351718360 319985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably ten years
< 1351718379 293369 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1351718411 399286 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On October 20, the system became better organized, and the U.S. National Hurricane Center (NHC) assessed a high potential for it to become a tropical cyclone within 48 hours"
< 1351718415 277168 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, new jersey was flooded here
< 1351718430 110764 :Bike!~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal
< 1351718431 410043 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i knew anything about jersey shore so i could make a topical remark
< 1351718433 410060 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so roughtly a week and a half
< 1351718443 978013 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :new jersey sucks but making fun of them now is mean-spirited
< 1351718461 58358 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :new jersey is basically one giant freeway interchange
< 1351718489 568520 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something something new jersey turnpike
< 1351718529 408077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess if you go there to look for america now you'll need a snorkel
< 1351719395 821774 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: <fruitFly> what's wrong with this semi colon..  fibCons fib = if (fib.head + fib.tail.head) < 4000000 then (fib.head + fib.tail.head:fib; fibCons fib) else fib ???
< 1351719421 489850 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut
< 1351719443 483224 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it's like you don't even know haskell
< 1351719451 525583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it obvious?????
< 1351719827 238284 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow
< 1351719882 933695 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, I have no idea where to put the semicolon in that expression either
< 1351719919 278828 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no wrong place to put the semicolon
< 1351720044 37132 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wou;ld dispute that.
< 1351720308 293241 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1351720406 622244 :carado!~user4539@78.250.146.121 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
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< 1351723307 163463 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is there a better display manager than xdm yet
< 1351723322 426443 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightdm?
< 1351723369 115543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time i tried lightdm it sort of didn't work
< 1351723408 571132 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what else was bad about it
< 1351723467 866073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: oh right it also depends on gnome-common
< 1351723472 968910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes me a bit unhappy
< 1351723492 853243 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yessssssss xdm
< 1351723495 176652 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :party like it's 1992
< 1351723518 866684 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i actually managed to style xdm to not look terrible
< 1351723528 334118 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: by which i mean it was just grey with a one pixel border and anti-aliased sans fonts
< 1351723529 828198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than
< 1351723530 207848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdm
< 1351723543 859437 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. It doesn’t seem to depend on gnome-common directly on my system.
< 1351723552 932238 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: the gtk-greeter does
< 1351723559 558430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is afaict the only greeter anyone uses
< 1351723576 325106 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends: libc6 (>= 2.2.5), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), libgtk-3-0 (>= 3.0.0), liblightdm-gobject-1-0 (>= 0.9.8), libx11-6, lightdm
< 1351723594 614263 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
< 1351723601 374886 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why does it try and install gnome-common on arch!!
< 1351723653 854708 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1351723673 470147 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should ask for your money back.
< 1351723797 539124 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nooooo
< 1351723837 271966 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: whats no
< 1351723842 238627 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :styling xdm
< 1351723847 226543 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1351723875 982405 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be like setting your root window to not a 1px black and white checkerboard
< 1351723879 426499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok even i can't stand that
< 1351723880 399060 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :)
< 1351723888 319593 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: xdm uses that background by default
< 1351723889 756703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is p. great
< 1351724059 495802 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I guess I will stick to logging in and running startx
< 1351724061 486936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this give me "cred"
< 1351724095 633125 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :pooping great?
< 1351724104 565470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1351724500 450837 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, what's up with those 1px black and white checkerboards?
< 1351724809 170987 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the punishment for not setting the background to something better
< 1351724815 229748 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, not running a program that paints stuff on the root window
< 1351725253 504869 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not really?
< 1351725313 740320 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first 5-10 years or so of linuxing was logging in as root and running startx :)
< 1351725347 299330 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello
< 1351725454 110955 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it turned out people on IRC made fun of you if your whois said root, so I stopped doing that)
< 1351725501 889901 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So… peer pressure was used for good?
< 1351725511 174023 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I vote you fuck with 'em.
< 1351725522 923422 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make UID 0 "admin", and your login "root".
< 1351725523 834767 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1351725553 346933 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, make UID 0 "nobody" and your login "root"
< 1351725561 5434 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you fuck with not only IRC users, but yourself.
< 1351725592 537043 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for a while I had a differently-named account with uid 0
< 1351725620 744507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :(
< 1351725666 940071 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm pretty sure there's no interest in a new DM because Wayland's coming soon.
< 1351725697 28982 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd bet on a KMS-based getty-ish soon.
< 1351725706 463727 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :KMS?
< 1351725734 92165 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel mode-setting.
< 1351725742 121806 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with DRM
< 1351725755 598787 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fundamental low-level graphics interface on modern Linux.
< 1351725760 733183 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right
< 1351725763 440547 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thingy
< 1351725838 278949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSVO soon
< 1351725838 439677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't lightdm "new", also?
< 1351725838 439877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is X on wayland stable yet, maybe i should be cool and switch
< 1351725875 24216 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think lightdm is like several years old
< 1351725910 894209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is new in my book
< 1351725942 271985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: will be "fun" if nvidia/ati never bother implementing kms and hence linux ends up regressing in terms of graphics driver support
< 1351726423 937857 :pikhq!~pikhq@174-24-60-125.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah...