00:01:42 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:06:41 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:09:28 -!- copumpkin has quit. 00:16:09 -!- ineiros has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:26:48 @pole-results best-spoken-language 00:26:49 Poll results for best-spoken-language (Open): Polish=344, Welsh=1, Georgian=1, Manx=1, norwegian=8 00:27:12 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 00:27:32 Did you vote for Polish 344 times, shachaf? 00:27:43 atriq: Huh? 00:27:46 @pole-results best-spoken-language 00:27:47 Poll results for best-spoken-language (Open): Polish=344, Welsh=1, Georgian=1, Manx=1, norwegian=8 00:27:50 @vote best-spoken-language georgian 00:27:50 "georgian" is not currently a candidate in this poll 00:27:56 @vote best-spoken-language Georgian 00:27:56 voted on "Georgian" 00:28:10 you should vote oerian 00:28:25 @pole-results best-spoken-language 00:28:26 Poll results for best-spoken-language (Open): Polish=484, Welsh=1, Georgian=2, Manx=1, norwegian=8 00:28:36 but that language has never been spoken! 00:28:54 @poll-results best-spoken-language 00:28:54 Poll results for best-spoken-language (Open): Polish=484, Welsh=1, Georgian=2, Manx=1, norwegian=8 00:29:01 so why is it pole 00:29:55 there is no pole 00:30:26 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:31:56 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:32:31 @vote best-spoken-language magyar 00:32:31 "magyar" is not currently a candidate in this poll 00:32:38 fuck you 00:32:43 @choice-add best-spoken-language magyar 00:32:43 New candidate "magyar", added to poll "best-spoken-language". 00:32:47 @vote best-spoken-language magyar 00:32:47 voted on "magyar" 00:32:49 @vote best-spoken-language magyar 00:32:49 voted on "magyar" 00:32:50 @vote best-spoken-language magyar 00:32:51 voted on "magyar" 00:32:54 @pole-results best-spoken-language 00:32:56 @pole-results best-spoken-language 00:32:56 Poll results for best-spoken-language (Open): magyar=3, Polish=484, Welsh=1, Georgian=2, Manx=1, norwegian=8 00:33:10 Though we typically call it Hungarian in English. 00:33:16 Or do we? 00:33:18 maybe *YOU* typically call it Hungarian 00:33:18 I thought we did. 00:33:25 okay so do i 00:33:26 still 00:33:36 @choice-add president kmc 00:33:37 New candidate "kmc", added to poll "president". 00:34:53 @choice-add president cthulhu 00:34:53 New candidate "cthulhu", added to poll "president". 00:36:09 @vote president cthulhu 00:36:09 voted on "cthulhu" 00:36:24 @poll-results president 00:36:25 Poll results for president (Open): cthulhu=1, kmc=0, copumpkin=4 00:36:29 why settle for the *lesser* of two evils? 00:36:46 oh right 00:36:55 @vote president kmc 00:36:56 voted on "kmc" 00:37:06 can't do _that_... 00:37:10 mwahahahaha 00:37:33 :O 00:37:52 copumpkin: That's what you get for moving to CT 00:38:01 I'm not even eligible to be president 00:38:07 No one likes Connecticut Yankees. 00:38:20 copumpkin: I'm not either. :-( 00:38:30 oerjan: Did you know dne :: (forall m. Monad m => (a -> m Void) -> m Void) -> a? 00:38:31 aww poor shachaf 00:38:37 shachaf: not even president of finland? 00:38:58 olsner: Not even that. :-( 00:39:07 "The President must be a native-born Finnish citizen." 00:40:23 kmc: Did you know ffi ? 00:40:53 U+FB03 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE FOREIGN FUNCTION INTERFACE [ffi] 00:41:00 why this obsession with presidents being native born? 00:41:16 olsner: I don't know, man! It's totally unfair. 00:41:38 what's dne anyway 00:41:43 heh 00:41:53 if every finn votes a non-finn for president, who actually gets elected? 00:42:46 An Estonian. 00:43:01 @hoogle dne 00:43:02 Foreign.Marshal.Pool pooledNew :: Storable a => Pool -> a -> IO (Ptr a) 00:43:02 Foreign.Marshal.Pool pooledNewArray :: Storable a => Pool -> [a] -> IO (Ptr a) 00:43:02 Foreign.Marshal.Pool pooledNewArray0 :: Storable a => Pool -> a -> [a] -> IO (Ptr a) 00:43:12 but which estonian? (are there more han one?) 00:43:20 ok so... 00:43:34 :t runCont 00:43:35 Cont r a -> (a -> r) -> r 00:44:28 oerjan: dastardly notation elimination 00:46:53 @djinn dne :: ((a -> (Void -> a) -> a) -> (Void -> a) -> a) -> a 00:46:53 Cannot parse command 00:47:02 um 00:47:08 No name. 00:47:10 @djinn dne :: (a -> (Void -> a) -> a) -> (Void -> a) -> a) -> a 00:47:10 Cannot parse command 00:47:16 Just a type. 00:47:21 @djinn (a -> (Void -> a) -> a) -> (Void -> a) -> a) -> a 00:47:22 Cannot parse command 00:47:27 oops 00:47:33 @djinn ((a -> (Void -> a) -> a) -> (Void -> a) -> a) -> a 00:47:33 f a = a (\ b _ -> b) void 00:47:52 oerjan: Why are you using Cont? 00:47:55 You don't need Cont. 00:47:56 @quote Oleg 00:47:57 Oleg says: We show how to program with the law of excluded middle. We specifically avoid call/cc, which is overrated. 00:48:12 @djinn dne :: ((a -> Either a Void) -> Either a Void) -> a 00:48:13 Cannot parse command 00:48:18 * shachaf sighs. 00:48:19 @djinn ((a -> Either a Void) -> Either a Void) -> a 00:48:19 f a = 00:48:20 case a (\ b -> 00:48:20 case a (\ _ -> Left b) of 00:48:20 Left c -> Left c 00:48:20 Right d -> void d) of 00:48:21 Left e -> e 00:48:23 Right f -> void f 00:48:32 um it was the obvious way to get a monad with an arbitrary result... 00:48:44 call/cc is overrated, man 00:49:03 You can use Cont without callCC, though, depend what you need that type for. 00:49:10 True. 00:49:14 You can use Cont for anything. 00:51:08 i guess Either is simpler 00:52:08 FamicomHDL uses Cont without callCC. I also mentioned in esolang wiki some kind of fake I/O monad involving Cont. 00:52:14 Since you only need to use the exception once. 00:53:18 But you can use law of excluded middle instead of callCC too if you like; in both cases it makes classical logic from intuitionistic logic. 00:53:36 i think that @djinn is a little overcomplicated? 00:54:15 Yes. 00:54:19 Just pass it Left. 00:54:19 :t let f a = case a Left of Left e -> e; Right f -> undefined in f 00:54:21 ((a -> Either a b) -> Either t t1) -> t 00:54:37 copumpkin: Get 'im! 00:54:49 Could you use (>>=)? 00:55:26 For what you have there, you could make (either Left undefined) which might also do? 00:56:33 You mean either id undefined? 00:56:41 shachaf: Yes. 00:56:42 It should actually be either id void 00:57:00 shachaf: Yes, that too. You are correct. It should be: either id void 00:57:15 :t void 00:57:16 Functor f => f a -> f () 00:57:20 Not that void! 00:57:24 absurd :: Void -> a 00:57:34 But something like case ... of { Left c -> Left c; Right d -> void d; } seem would be like >>= void 00:57:40 either id void . ($ Left) 00:57:53 Hmm, good point. 00:58:56 Hmm, no. 00:59:01 The (>>=) makes it monomorphic. 01:06:33 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:16:22 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:22:47 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 01:31:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:32:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:33:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:36:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:01:46 Sgeo: I have read that in the startings of war, hitler begged churchill for peace like 12 times, but churcill didnt want to accept it. 02:03:01 Fuck you hitler and your jew-killing peace 02:03:48 is he being like "hitler wasn't such a bad guy" 02:03:51 Sgeo: Why do you punish yourself? 02:04:11 Phantom_Hoover, he's being more "both sides were bad", I think. 02:04:29 Which is a silly argument. 02:04:47 That argument didn't even address my statement 02:04:58 rebels in general, or these particular rebels? 02:04:58 * amelius has quit (Quit: Leaving) 02:04:59 Because it seems clear that at least some of the time, rebellion is not a bad thing. 02:04:59 If there was a rebellion against Nazi Germany, that would have been good. The American Revolution is not typically considered to have been morally bad, as far as I'm aware. 02:05:29 History was kind to Winston, and dink to Addi. 02:06:26 Sgeo: So, wait, was this guy advocating absolute subservience to whatever government exists at the time? 02:07:26 Not entirely sure how absolute, exactly, but something along those lines. He's against the Syrrian rebels, and I wasn't sure if those particular rebels or rebels in general. 02:09:32 That's actually kinda hilarious. Wonder what he thinks of states that ban Christianity. 02:09:56 The person in question is l. 02:09:57 http://pastie.org/private/tfgrdt2v3rinnudt3yuipa 02:10:06 (Note that I elided the actual nicks) 02:10:44 that 02:10:57 sounds very clearly like he's against "rebels are good all the time" 02:11:45 I asked, hold on let me paste that 02:12:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:12:48 http://pastie.org/private/q3zrkexir8wus8qmuh5dw 02:13:06 Hmm, I guess it could be more dodging than asserting that rebels are bad all the time. 02:13:23 It's s's statement that seems slightly generalized anti-rebel. 02:16:14 the result of all this: ww1 gave us "Leage of nations" ww2 gave us "United Nations" and ww3 will give us the Luciferian NWO 02:16:14 thats "the Plan" basicly 02:17:17 yeah i think nazis are the archtypal example that peace isn't always the better option 02:18:25 also he *did* get a peace agreement from the british earlier 02:18:29 and it didn't work out too well for them 02:24:21 britain consented to hitler annexing part of czechoslovakia, then he went much further, then britain declared war, then later churchill came to power 02:24:32 so i think by that point yeah he would be pretty inclined to view further peace promises in a dim light 02:24:39 also why are you in #jesus 02:26:20 kmc: He's a *regular* there. 02:26:43 sgeo is happy he found #jesus 02:27:12 heh 02:33:12 reach out and touch faith 02:33:53 Weird given that, to my knowledge, Sgeo is an atheist... 02:33:55 *shrug* 02:34:08 pikhq_, that knowledge is correct. 02:35:18 if it was incorrect, would it be knowledge? 02:36:23 back to the issue at hand then: why are you in #jesus? 02:38:10 Because it's fun to watch? It's fun to participate in conversations as a voice contrary to ... I was going to say the mainstream opinion there, but as often as not it's Christians arguing with Christians as it is Christians vs non-Christians. 02:39:50 i expect so 02:50:47 kmc: Is your web IRC thing going to replace #haskell? 02:51:23 You should have a feature where there are multiple levels of discussion, so people can make stupid jokes in one level without confusing the people who are asking for help at a different level. 02:51:58 IRC should have threads. 02:52:12 Multiple levels would not solve the problem of different people having different competing explanations. 02:53:27 Maybe there should be a polite way of marking people who have no idea what they're talking about. 02:53:55 A codensity monad of a (->) makes a state monad; this can be used with continuations, too. 02:54:11 shachaf: +v is a good idiot flag on non-+m channels. 02:54:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:56:16 ion: Yes, but it's kind of impolite. 02:56:19 mit zephyr has "un-classes" 02:56:28 Also it's decided dictatorially. 02:56:40 kmc: I tried to connect to mit zephyr once but apparently you need to have an account? 02:56:49 that is if people are answering a question on class "help", you can provide snarky useless answers on class "unhelp" 02:56:52 yes 02:57:02 How do you get an account? 02:57:23 well you can get an MIT Athena account by being sponsored by MIT faculty, employee, or organization, or other 02:57:35 or you can get an account with one of the other zephyr realms that peers with them 02:57:47 Aha. 02:57:48 but there aren't any that take general public registrations 02:59:16 Continuation monad can be used as a kind of monad to build (possibly recursive) data structures. You may see one such example in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Bruijndejx in which it builds a recursive data structure of a simple I/O. 03:00:13 zzo38: Why do you need Cont for that? 03:02:20 shachaf: Well, it is one possible way to make it. 03:04:26 shachaf: I don’t see how one could mark people who don’t know what they’re talking about in a polite manner. 03:07:56 * Sgeo marks Ryan Kelker 03:26:46 easier to mark people who do know what they're talking about 03:26:50 like on stack overflow 03:27:23 Yes, that's what I meant. 03:27:48 It's annoying when one or two clueless people give clueless advice to another clueless person. 03:27:55 It just propagates the cluelessness. 03:29:43 but #haskell is too wrapped up in the idea that #haskell Is Nice to tell those people off 03:31:01 oh, hey, that's Geek Social Fallacy #1 isn't it 03:47:39 -!- trout has changed nick to variable. 03:58:08 ion: that's ! hackage. 03:58:35 D-: 03:58:59 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523\unfoog. 04:01:07 Wait, why am I still here? 04:01:14 * shachaf vanishes in puff of smoke 04:08:37 I try to think of how to make some features of CsoundMML which means a program taking annotated orchestra and MML, and then writes a score file and inserts the necessary things into the orchestra (if any). 04:37:56 a person complains that IPv4 broke on their Windows machine but IPv6 is working fine 04:38:00 someone should just write a worm that does that 04:41:22 hah 04:41:35 some good earworms for dear eso/droogies from uncle hagb4rd --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKzH6pRfzoU 04:42:25 warning this track is very affected with light 04:43:10 as it might had been during the age of the trees 04:43:36 ion: politeness is overrated 04:47:20 Jafet: I suspect ion agrees with you. 04:47:51 overrating is polite 04:48:39 Impoverrating 04:51:06 I have typed the experience/inventory of the last Dungeons&Dragons session played so far, as I somehow have forgotten to do that before. 04:54:33 I have also wrote part of a list of lesser known deities which is part of what I remember from I read somewhere else, called Glo-Gleb and Arachne, and then I added my own, called Gxxyuxihuvxi. 04:54:36 -!- elliott has joined. 04:56:19 Geeksy Hooksy Hoofsy 04:56:37 Praise be upon it 04:56:47 What does that mean? 04:57:13 I should know, but don't 04:57:21 Then you must learn. 04:59:35 shachaf: okay, but not @. 05:00:18 #esoteric: un-#haskell? 05:00:55 Thank you for taking your snarkemarks off the main channel. :-) 05:05:26 yeah i have thought as much on more tahn one occasion 05:05:56 somethingawful forums have a related idea 05:06:02 most forums have a "shitposting" subforum 05:06:09 which is usually way more fun 05:06:21 kmc: Back when we had more than one channel in common, I would use each channel as un-otherchannel! 05:06:37 These days it's all boring and linear. 05:06:46 > co "#haskell" 05:06:48 Not in scope: `co' 05:06:48 Perhaps you meant one of these: 05:06:48 `cos' (imported from... 05:06:58 > cos lettuce 05:07:00 Not in scope: `lettuce' 05:07:18 kmc: Are the somethingawful forums worthwhile? Someone tells me I should pay my $10. 05:07:55 ais523\unfoog: one of these days I am going to patch MediaWiki to automatically map 24 year bans to indefinite ones :P 05:10:56 they're pretty entertaining 05:11:10 it's worth $10 lifetime cost yes 05:11:39 Sometimes I look at their IRC channel. 05:12:11 how is it? 05:12:12 * shachaf should probably quit IRC 05:12:16 oh don't :( 05:12:18 i would miss you 05:12:47 Well... Maybe I should just quit being in 80 channels. :-) 05:12:55 yeah 05:25:16 I wish the Haskell web situation was better. 05:25:25 i wish the web was better 05:25:30 Yes. 05:25:35 i wish this song was louder 05:25:40 But given that it's terrible, I wish the Haskell abstractions over it weren't terrible. 05:25:54 kmc: Did you see _Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead_? 05:25:56 I don't remember. 05:26:00 Though I've probably asked before 05:26:41 No 05:26:44 everyone says i should 05:26:48 why do you mention it now? 05:27:14 I watched (most of) the film yesterday. 05:27:24 Nothing beyond that. 05:27:26 But you should! 05:27:37 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:28:44 elliott: "u2" 05:29:59 -!- ogrom has quit (Client Quit). 05:30:12 The worldwide web of lies 05:32:32 -!- yours_truly has joined. 05:33:59 kmc: Did you get the X1 in the end? 05:34:14 well i ordered it 05:34:27 won't get it until next month 05:34:33 Ah. 05:34:47 -!- yours_truly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:34:49 Apparently even the i7 version is 2-core, not 4-core. 05:35:04 is there a 4-core mobile core 2? 05:35:57 That depends on what mobile core 2 means. 05:37:28 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:39:04 you should run for political office 05:39:23 kmc: But I can't be US president! 05:39:28 I'm constitutionally discriminated against. 05:39:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:39:51 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:39:56 kmc: What I mean is: Does "mobile core 2" have some special meaning, or does it just mean "of the type that goes in a laptop"? 05:40:30 i thought intel designated some of them as "mobile" 05:40:47 It's quite possible. I don't pay that much attention to that. 05:42:43 also it needs to be available in the right physical form factor 05:42:55 My laptop has a 4-core CPU. 05:43:20 double thin fine pitch micro small outline quad ball grid array, or whatever 05:43:57 the famous DTFPμSOQBGA 05:52:17 http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/11/attacking-hardened-linux-systems-with.html 05:52:49 Yay, another kmcpost. 05:53:01 kmc: I heard you were on the case of restoring rwbarton's quiz to the Internet. 05:53:49 yeah 05:53:52 maybe 05:53:58 What is rwbarton's quiz? 05:54:38 the incredibly difficult quest of putting a file on the internet 05:55:30 kmc still doesn't have "his own website" 05:55:41 Even I have one, man! Though I should take it down. 05:55:47 what about this one? http://ugcs.net/~keegan/ 05:55:54 it even uses sans-serif fonts now! 05:55:56 shachaf: Then why didn't you? 05:55:57 That's ugcs.net. Doesn't count. 05:56:00 it totally has some css 05:56:06 And if you need one can you use your own computer? 05:56:32 kmc: Why does it matter sans-serif fonts or not, that should be configured by the client, it uses whatever default font is set, isn't it? 05:57:48 apparently my blog articles now automatically appear in http://www.reddit.com/r/prograrticles 05:58:03 prograticles 05:58:06 what a good portmanteau 05:58:30 pfft, that bot's list of blogs doesn't even have Arcane Sentiment 05:58:38 elliott: help 05:58:40 https://github.com/ekmett/lens 05:58:47 I'm editing the diagram. Are there any bugs in it? 05:58:51 Other than the one copumpkin found. 05:58:57 I found nothing 06:01:40 elliott: "plz" improve this type 06:01:59 data Foo a = Some a | forall o. (o -> a) (Foo o) 06:02:20 Er. 06:02:25 It looks like not valid 06:02:26 data Foo a = Some a | forall o. Map (o -> a) (Foo o) 06:02:53 What do you think it is supposed to do? 06:03:03 zzo38: Not very much. 06:03:07 Foo ~ (Nat,) 06:03:11 But I want elliott to improve it. 06:03:33 The second part seem like some left Yoneda 06:03:34 kmc: Your reddit username is prograticles_bot? 06:03:47 * shachaf doesn't actually remember kmc's reddit username, but it was some weird unpronounceable nonsense. 06:04:04 shachaf: have you tried: type Foo a = (Nat, a) 06:04:05 that Foo looks like a free monad 06:04:41 monqy: thats not an improvement :'( 06:04:57 monqy: and yes i have tried it, see above :'( 06:05:13 elliott: Well, the goal was to make something sort of like a "non-free functor" 06:05:13 i don't want to see above :( 06:05:24 I.e. one that keeps track of the fmaps you've done to it. 06:05:31 shachaf: people really love embedding GDB breakpoints in C source code, it turns out 06:05:43 Map id (Map ord (Map chr (Some 97))) -- e.g. 06:05:54 It isn't a functor then 06:05:55 data Foo' r = forall o. Map (o -> r) r; type Foo = Free Foo' or something seems isomorphic. 06:06:03 sort of 06:06:16 kmc: I haven't read your post yet. 06:06:23 Oh, the PF JIT! 06:06:33 * shachaf likes that JIT. 06:07:10 kmc: Can you embed GDB breakpoints in a C code? I have just used things like *0=*0 06:07:44 (which is probably not the best way) 06:07:46 I have just used things like asm("int3") 06:08:30 zzo38: this is the way i came up with: http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/01/embedding-gdb-breakpoints-in-c-source.html 06:08:43 kmc: I will look later 06:08:58 kmc: Oh, that. 06:09:01 it's a macro that puts the current address into a special section 06:09:16 then i have a wrapper around gdb which reads those and adds breakpoints to them 06:09:28 gdb has this nice Python scripting thing, I'm told. 06:09:30 (or a gdb plugin written in python) 06:09:37 (Well, OK, no one told me it's nice.) 06:09:38 yeah, somebody sent me one and i merged it 06:14:53 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:15:57 -!- Section42L has joined. 06:16:01 Is this OK? 1097337155,1162588218,1231719311,1304961152,1382558180,1464769368,1551869087,1644148025,1741914154,1845493760,1955232530,2071496706 06:17:06 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:17:32 zzo38: Hmm, I'd say 1002841731,1095464447,1164270051,1222683387,1298220537,1352792256,1501379263,1641869480,1662853268,1785140043,1817697110,1857747801] 06:17:40 -!- Section42L has left. 06:18:16 shachaf: Why? 06:18:24 zzo38: I might ask you the same question. 06:18:43 Are my numbers accurate? 06:19:10 Mine are accurate. 06:19:41 -!- Fiora has joined. 06:20:02 > sum (read "[1002841731,1095464447,1164270051,1222683387,1298220537,1352792256,1501379263,1641869480,1662853268,1785140043,1817697110,1857747801]") == 17402959374 06:20:04 True 06:20:06 See? 06:21:22 It doesn't look like it to me, since at least 1845493760 must be correct since it is 440 shifted left 22, I think. The others are approximate but I don't know if they are close enough. 06:21:35 -!- Section42L has joined. 06:22:17 Oh, maybe we're talking about different things. 06:22:50 I am trying to make the notes 22 octaves higher from middle C. 06:23:22 Oh, unrelated. 06:27:36 `welcome Section42L 06:27:49 Section42L: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:29:01 -!- Section42L has left. 06:31:25 -!- KALLISTI has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:33:13 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 06:35:34 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:37:57 sigh, JavaScript MVC website uses exclusionary language ("Our users are software craftsmen...") 06:38:00 and I feel like there's probably no harm meant and this could be fixed quietly 06:38:02 except 06:38:21 there is no way to contact them except through public Twitter or GitHub etc. 06:39:20 which guarantees that every idiot brogrammer will weigh in, and much worse things will be said 06:39:46 "PC POLICE ASSAULT, GET OUT THE BIG GUNS" 06:39:54 ಠ_ಠ 06:40:06 kmc: The whois record has an email address of a person listed as "founder" 06:40:07 I hate that 06:41:04 hm 06:41:09 i could also get an email from whois 06:41:15 er 06:41:22 i could also get an email from git commits, is what i meant to say 06:41:24 but that seems creepy 06:42:01 I think if you list your name on the main page, and your email address is your.name@gmail.com, it's not unreasonable to expect emails. 06:43:29 Well, s/expect/get/ 06:45:26 Assuming you use Gmail and you use your full name for email. 06:45:44 kmc: Were you objecting to "${ADJ}men" or "crafts${PERSON}"? 06:46:00 I have WHOIS too but it is someone else not me, so it is someone else's name and email, although the postal address is the same. 06:46:17 Is it your brother? 06:46:37 kmc: are you telling me you don't like dumb image macros in github issues 06:46:43 kmc: who could dislike those! 06:46:52 It is not your business who it is. 06:47:04 zzo38: Whose business is it who it is? 06:47:11 Or is that also not my business? 06:47:17 shachaf: heh 06:47:35 i object to the implication that women don't use this software 06:47:36 shachaf: It is whoever's name is on there, and my own. 06:51:26 kmc: I don't think there is such an implication actually 07:13:20 oh? 07:14:57 @google person paper 07:14:59 http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html 07:15:00 Title: Douglas Hofstadter - Person Paper on Purity in Language 07:16:20 or maybe i'm supposed to email contact@bitovi.com ? 07:19:45 -!- segorev has joined. 07:20:03 I have a book by Hofstadter, but not that one. 07:20:48 i guess i will do that 07:20:49 that's not a book 07:21:15 elliott: psst but i read it in a book tho :'( 07:21:31 it's in themas, which is a collection of essays I think? 07:22:06 Yes. 07:22:12 It was a column in _Scientific American_ once. 07:22:25 Later it was published in a book. 07:28:53 i'm getting a kind of brogrammy vibe from these people 07:28:57 we'll see what they say 07:37:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:38:00 kmc: have you noticed that there is another problem with the paragraph "Our users are software craftsmen who care about doing JavaScript development the right way. They care about things like test driven development, performance, code quality, structure and maintainability." 07:38:18 namely that it is self-aggrandisement that says nothing :P 07:40:50 heh 07:41:28 well if I sent an email to every website that does that, i would quickly hit my outgoing mail quota 07:43:04 When I send emails I like to paste snippets of them into IRC to show off. 07:43:07 I'm a real outgoing mail quota. 07:45:22 ugh 07:45:26 that one took me aminute 07:49:46 I feel like I ought to write a compiler at some point. 07:50:21 why 07:50:37 to spite you monqy :'( 07:50:47 I sporadically get this feeling I ought to write a self-hosting compiler. 07:50:53 it's not working........................................ 07:51:12 monqy: drat and double drat 07:51:24 maybe it'll spite elliott though 07:51:54 elliott: blom should i spite 07:52:35 monqy: wait no 07:52:45 monqy: i wanted to sprite you 07:52:52 Spite Rolf Blom. 07:53:06 you should write a vau calculus interpreter in scheme + enough scheme as a library for vau calculus to self-host it 07:53:15 "Blom's scheme? More like Blom's...", uh, I can't figure out how to continue from there. 07:54:15 I sporadically get this feeling I ought to write a self-hosting compiler. 07:54:20 fizzie: me too except I also get the feeling it should boot 07:55:15 I suppose it's one of those universal things, like the naked-at-school dream and so on. 07:55:19 elliott: So you know the issue of minimal complete definitions not being compiler-checked? 07:55:37 no 07:55:40 well 07:55:41 yes 07:55:43 So you don't get warnings for "instance Eq Foo" 07:56:15 Would there be a problem with just explicitly specifying it to the compiler in a pragma? 07:56:41 I.e. class Eq where (==), (/=) :: a -> a -> Bool; {-# MINIMAL (==) #-} {-# MINIMAL (/=) #-} 07:56:49 Where you could specify any combination of operators in a pragma, of course 08:02:03 i assume not 08:02:56 Is there a better way to do it? 08:12:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:17:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:25:49 i assume not 08:25:55 you could do simple usage checks in the default definition 08:26:12 at the cost of not allowing a == b = const ... (a /= b) 08:26:20 not allowing as in it doesn't work for coverage checks 08:34:45 elliott, monqy do the "do the "do the "do the "do the.... 08:36:05 hi 08:42:46 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 08:43:38 -!- segorev has joined. 08:54:34 -!- nooga has joined. 08:58:22 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:07:33 -!- quintopia has joined. 09:08:44 elliott: No good in general. 09:09:00 I mean, no good with things in base, even. 09:09:34 http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/4.6.0.0/doc/html/Control-Applicative.html#g:2 09:12:44 Alternative sucks anyway 09:12:54 iirc some and many only apply to some instances 09:14:54 Yes. 09:15:11 Anyway this probably needs to be explicit. 09:15:28 > some (Just 5) 09:15:32 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 09:15:41 hey 09:15:44 i was justa bout to do that 09:15:49 exactly that 09:15:50 with the 5 09:15:54 woW 09:19:00 monqy: "brainwashed minds think alike????" 09:22:53 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 09:24:00 > many [] 09:24:03 [[]] 09:24:04 "very cool" 09:29:26 -!- segorev has joined. 09:32:35 But, some and many are operators which may apply to any Alternative even though they are not useful with some, they still have a definition which can be common for any one even though it may be infinite loop so not always the defined result. 09:43:58 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:14:24 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 11:15:06 ion: ? 11:16:20 shachaf: ‽ 11:16:28 The shown thing. 11:18:52 shachaf: has neutrino admitted he is cheater yet 11:19:12 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:19:13 elliott: I don't think so? 11:19:15 But basically. 11:20:01 well the difference between "basically" and "yes" is more or less the crux of cheater's career... 11:20:44 instance Show a => Show (Bazaar a a t) where { showsPrec prec (Bazaar baz) = showParen (prec > 10) (showString "Bazaar " . magicShowsPrec 11 (baz MagicShow)) } or something 11:22:56 The challenge here is to write a Show instance for Bazaar? 11:23:07 Can you give me an example of a specific Bazaar and the output you'd want for it? 11:23:52 why would cheater join #haskell under a new name anyway 11:23:54 show ((\f -> (,) <$> f 5 <*> f 6) (\a -> Bazaar ($ a))) == "Bazaar (… <$> MagicShow 5 <*> MagicShow 6)" 11:23:56 wasn't he getting along just fine with his old name 11:24:02 he was never banned or anything afaik 11:24:29 ion: that sounds impossible 11:24:31 to bug you 11:24:35 are you bugged 11:24:45 ion: toListOf? 11:25:01 Oh, wait. 11:25:07 monqy: im just perplexed 11:25:10 is that bugging 11:25:22 hm 11:25:33 borderline perhaps 11:25:51 λ> toListOf bazaar $ (\f -> (,) <$> f 5 <*> f 6) sell 11:25:51 [5,6] 11:26:04 sell = \a -> Bazaar ($ a) 11:26:23 I mean, a Bazaar is perfectly traversable. 11:27:12 bazaar :: Traversal (Bazaar a b t) t a b 11:28:06 Then again, you already know that, since you wrote partsOf. So I must still be missing something. :-) 11:28:10 elliott: Yes, i think so too. But i was asking in any case – i wouldn’t have figured out, say, something like Data.Reflection myself either. 11:28:38 well apparently i was wrong and it is possible 11:28:46 or else I am also missing something 11:29:12 Reflection? 11:29:21 I must be completely missing the point here. :-( 11:29:47 shachaf: Let’s forget about Bazaar. (,) <$> MagicShow 5 <*> MagicShow 6 == "(_ :: Integer -> Integer -> (Integer,Integer)) <$> MagicShow 5 <*> MagicShow 6" 11:29:59 shachaf: Reflection was just another example of something magical. 11:30:11 ion: What's the type of the function you want? 11:30:40 @ty \f -> liftA2 (,) (f 5) (f 6) 11:30:42 (Num a, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> f (b, b) 11:31:40 foo :: (forall f. (Applicative f, Show a, Typeable a) => (a -> f a) -> f t) -> String? 11:31:47 Maybe forall f a 11:32:41 ion: You should omit the type signature on _. 11:32:45 So you don't need a gross Typeable constraint. 11:33:04 ion: (Did I tell you about reflection or have you, like, actually used it?) 11:33:36 forall f a t? 11:33:45 * shachaf is now confused about what ion wants. 11:34:26 Anyway, isn't this just toListOf? 11:34:39 https://gist.github.com/6d958eef0df23c282cbd 11:34:41 λ> succ <$> shown 42 11:34:43 _ <$> shown 42 11:37:02 elliott: I don’t remember who mentioned Data.Reflection, i probably encountered it in #haskell. I haven’t needed to use it so far. 11:39:37 when was the last time you used a reader monad :p 11:39:51 -!- kallisti has joined. 11:40:15 heh 11:41:34 -!- kallisti has changed nick to KALLISTI. 11:45:35 λ> let foo :: forall a t. (Show a, Typeable a, Typeable t) => (forall f. Applicative f => (a -> f a) -> f t) -> String; foo r = let bz = r sell in ("(_ :: " ++ (concat $ replicate (lengthOf bazaar bz) $ (show $ typeOf (undefined::a)) ++ " -> ") ++ show (typeOf (undefined::t)) ++ ") <$> ") ++ (intercalate " <*> " $ map (\x -> "shown (" ++ show x ++ ")") (toListOf bazaar bz)) 11:45:43 λ> foo (\f -> (,) <$> f 5 <*> f 6) 11:45:43 "(_ :: Integer -> Integer -> (Integer,Integer)) <$> shown (5) <*> shown (6)" 11:46:01 "worst text generating thing ever?" 11:46:21 ion: Of course, you can get more information that that out of it. 11:46:39 (And this would be much simpler if you just used Bazaar. But anyway.) 11:51:24 12:54 < shachaf> Should I watch that? 11:51:24 12:55 < tgeeky> shachaf: yes 11:51:24 12:55 < ion> shachaf: Yes! 11:51:24 12:55 < kmc> Primer is great 11:51:32 I totally watched it. 11:51:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:52:04 ion: Anyway, the extra information you can get out of it is the reconstructed structure 11:52:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:52:21 I.e. extract of the (Bazaar a a) comonad. 11:59:54 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 12:22:14 shachaf: Ah, that does work indeed. I was going to the wrong direction thinking of how to do it with magic Functor and Applicative instances. 12:26:58 All you need is Const 12:27:09 I,I All you need is Const (Const (Const Is All) You) Need 12:27:28 ion: You need a trickier magic Applicative for the other direction, though. 12:27:33 ...Which you've already written. 12:29:51 Just remember Bazaar a b t ~ ([a], [b] -> t) where the lists are the same length. 12:30:05 Hmm, "the lists are the same length" doesn't quite capture it, because one of them is in negative position. 12:30:09 But you know what I mean. :-) 12:30:18 The second list has to be the same length as the first. 12:31:55 Bazaar a b t ~ exists n. (Vec n a, Vec n b -> t) 12:32:14 elliott: Right. 12:35:08 I,I i(Vec n a) 12:59:11 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:09:55 -!- atriq has joined. 13:32:45 After that update, the local Gamzee cosplayer is in tears 13:33:35 FSVO local, in 13:36:43 -!- nella has joined. 13:36:55 harry potter e il principe mezzosangue 13:37:44 -!- nella has left. 13:38:01 How odd 13:55:47 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:06:49 -!- carado has joined. 14:11:54 -!- atriq has joined. 14:26:30 -!- atriq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:39:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:11:43 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:17:32 -!- atriq has joined. 15:22:14 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:23:48 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 15:30:16 -!- atriq has joined. 15:32:24 -!- segorev has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 15:38:20 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 15:41:48 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:49:14 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:49:20 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 16:49:25 -!- Frooxius_ has changed nick to Frooxius. 17:05:11 -!- Arc_Koen has left. 17:07:40 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 17:07:46 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:07:49 -!- Frooxius_ has changed nick to Frooxius. 17:10:39 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 17:10:39 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:10:44 -!- Frooxius_ has changed nick to Frooxius. 17:26:18 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit. 17:51:17 Would you buy it or use it if it were available? http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9500 17:58:50 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:09:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 18:32:12 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:34:02 -!- Bike has joined. 18:39:35 zzo38, why would I want to? 18:50:08 Vorpal: I don't know; in case someone is interested. I would want to buy it. 18:52:17 -!- atriq has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 18:53:53 -!- atriq has joined. 18:54:46 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 18:57:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:00:05 zzo38, what does it offer that emulators don't? 19:01:11 The thrill of hardware. 19:01:48 the harder thrillware 19:02:16 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:04:16 Depending on the implementation, it may be more accurate, and can use any cartridge and input devices, and some people may prefer to use this in some cases. 19:04:38 -!- atriq has joined. 19:05:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:05:30 Hello 19:05:32 zzo38: The real important question would be, how accurate would the design be? 19:05:55 pikhq_: Of course it depend on how it is. 19:06:52 -!- Deewiant has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:07:06 -!- Deewiant has joined. 19:07:34 I assume you have no intention of even thinking about the expansion port of the NES. 19:08:28 Correct. 19:09:22 Some of its functions which may be used might be wired through an adapter, if you ever need to use it for any reason. 19:13:21 Hmm. Well, there is an easy way to make it useful-ish... 19:13:42 The audio in line moved from the cartridge slot to the expansion slot in the NES, right? 19:14:30 You could use one of the lines that connects from the cartridge to the expansion slot to carry audio from a Famicom adapter. 19:15:52 zzo38: is that just specs or do you have a circuit design etc for it? 19:15:56 Yes there is Audio in, in the NES expansion port, although I am not sure if it is the same thing. 19:16:52 quintopia: Just specifications; most of the circuit design would not be too complicated, though. 19:20:37 -!- atriq has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 19:22:28 -!- atriq has joined. 19:24:42 The NES expansion port seems badly designed and mostly useless; the useful functions exist on other ports (including the Famicom expansion port). One thing on there that might seem useful sometimes (if PRG/CE is insufficient) would be A15; and even that is not so useful on the expansion port instead of the cartridge. 19:26:47 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 19:27:45 It is possible for NES expansion port to be a bit more useful on the NES, but in what I described, with 60-pins cartridge, NES controller port, Famicom expansion port, it has the functions you need already. 19:38:46 What exactly would be wrong about the sentence "but the relationship ended long before marriage."? (as in awkward phrasing) 19:39:28 :( 19:39:53 ): 19:39:53 And what's wrong with "his hands flaunt in front of the Great Movie Ride in Disney World, Florida."? 19:40:32 Some things are difficult and this is bad. 19:40:43 can "flaunt" be used intransitively? 19:41:10 Not sure. It's on wikipedia. 19:41:15 (that sentence) 19:43:15 AnotherTest: (1) Somebody doesn't like beginning sentences with prepositions. (2) It has no obvious meaning, that's what. "Flaunt" kinda needs context, and as is rarely applied to hands... if it was his hands that were being flaunted, then it should have said "he flaunted his hands", not "his hands flaunt". "His hands flaunt" implies that his hands flaunt /something/, but we don't know what. 19:43:35 Neither are grammatically wrong as far as I can tell, they're both just terrible. 19:45:12 "his hands flaunt" is such a good construction though 19:45:15 on purely aesthetic grounds 19:45:17 what does it MEAN?? 19:45:31 Meaning is for losers :) 19:45:35 No idea, but it's on wikipedia. 19:45:46 David Copperfield's page 19:46:37 Flaunt around. 19:46:54 flaunt his crotch 19:48:15 Gregor: "but" isn't a preposition, also it's _ending_ it with them ("marriage" isn't one either.) 19:49:13 well, not a preposition there, i can imagine other uses where it may be ("life is but a dream") 19:50:19 Oh, hahah, I'm bad at reading X_X 19:50:25 I take the excuse that I'm sick :) 19:51:34 life is but his hands flaunting 19:52:10 well if anyone's hands could flaunt, it would be david copperfield, i think 19:54:02 flaunt 19:54:05 interesting word 19:54:10 Flauntulence. 19:54:18 oerjan: there are no??? fields of copper though? 19:54:21 it;s just not realistic 19:54:52 -!- nortti-9front has joined. 19:55:12 «(intransitive, obsolete) To wave or flutter smartly in the wind.» «(intransitive) (archaic or literary) To show off with flashy clothing.» so copperfield is really old I guess 19:55:30 and his hands are well-dressed. 19:55:58 AnotherTest: i cannot find this wikipedia page of which you speak 19:57:27 oerjan: Copperfield has made it invisible. 19:57:32 ah. 20:00:02 shachaf: http://grsecurity.net/~spender/jit_prot.diff 20:00:49 kmc: is that related to um... http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/11/attacking-hardened-linux-systems-with.html this post? 20:01:41 elliott: there are fields of gold, why not copper? 20:02:00 yes 20:02:11 i am the author of the latter 20:02:46 does that trick reliably avoid the problem, or can you like, still smuggle the instructions you want in by using non-immediate bits, like opcodes and r/m bytes? 20:03:09 it seems like it'd be trickier but is it still possible? 20:04:16 yeah, it's a good question 20:04:32 in this case you have a pretty limited range of opcodes and addressing modes you can generate 20:06:20 ahhh, so you can't use some of the really long opcodes like later-SSE stuff? 20:07:00 I'm imagining like, writing a search function that, given a set of operations you want to execute, tries to find some set of valid instructions that you could smuggle it in with 20:07:08 automating the process 20:07:25 -!- ineiros has joined. 20:07:45 yeah 20:07:54 that is probably a viable technique for attacking fancy optimizing JITs 20:08:00 oh, i think a book i have had a very basic version of that, where you put in some shellcode and it tries to output it in alphanumeric code or w/e 20:08:45 yeah there is a phrack article about that 20:09:31 the kernel BPF JIT is simplistic and just maps each BPF instruction to an x86 instruction with a specific template 20:10:33 -!- nortti-9front has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:13:34 the stuff I'm seeing about BPF talks about just-in-time compilation and stuff... but I remember your post talking about inserting specific x86 instructions, am I missing something? 20:14:22 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:15:41 yes but i have to go now, i can explain in 30 min or so 20:16:19 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:16:38 okay! thanks 20:17:51 elliott: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Making_Use_Of_Fat_Binders_To_Assist_Your_Weight_Management_Goals 20:18:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:18:59 hey atriq, elliott, su 20:19:00 p 20:19:18 hmm, a weight loss esolang? interesting 20:19:33 fascinating 20:19:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 20:19:48 is it a carb-counting minsky machine perhaps 20:20:16 nah, clearly you should have one register for carb, one for fat, and so one 20:20:18 *on 20:20:57 and you need some binders, that's in the name 20:20:59 the higher the values in the registers, the slower the execution goes 20:21:12 i think that requires something with scope... 20:22:57 maybe a lambda calculus with a culinary type discipline 20:22:59 consume [fridge+offsetof(fridge.cheese.swiss)] loads the cheese, and increments the fat, carb, and protein registers by the appropriate amounts? 20:23:27 -!- aaron9000 has joined. 20:23:33 eek, oop 20:24:14 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:24:27 i guess we'll need BinderFactories, then 20:25:33 -!- aaron9000 has left. 20:25:44 Full of women? 20:25:54 ...wat 20:26:15 women go in binders 20:26:18 well known fact 20:26:23 OKAY 20:26:41 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:26:57 @google romney binders full of women 20:27:00 http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/17/opinion/cardona-binders-women/index.html 20:27:00 Title: Romney's empty 'binders full of women' - CNN.com 20:27:01 Phantom_Hoover, hey 20:27:24 atriq, succession fort the third, what say you 20:28:29 I say "why not" 20:28:33 ok 20:28:36 who starts 20:29:17 (my fortress backbone is boring and i hate it, fwiw) 20:31:08 (my fortress backbone is weird) 20:31:28 weird is good 20:31:35 i don't get as anal when trying to position things then 20:31:51 Weird and annoyingly regular 20:32:23 And doesn't take into account the wonder that is minecarts? 20:32:46 oh christ don't let's start with the minecarts now 20:33:38 Had bad times with minecarts? 20:33:58 they require a lot of trial and error 20:42:32 Okay 20:42:39 Do we dare let elliott start? 20:44:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:45:50 I think some effects for pictures could apply to sounds too, and some effects for sounds count also be applied to pictures and videos (you have to select which dimension you want, which may be time dimension). You could also apply some of the effects for still pictures to the time dimension of videos, too. 20:46:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:47:11 Phantom_Hoover, do we dare let elliott start? 20:47:21 well, you started handlekindled and i started rosyarrow 20:47:23 so yeah 20:47:36 But he is NO LONGER ONLINE 20:49:01 selfish bastard 20:49:34 We could let zzo38 start 20:49:45 And see what hellish landscape we end up with 20:49:56 hey zzo38 20:49:59 you up for it 20:50:02 Fiora: back 20:51:01 it will be extremely logical, from a certain point of view. 20:52:13 Phantom_Hoover: Up for what? 20:52:29 Starting the THIRD #ESOTERIC SUCCESSION FORTRESS 20:52:33 AHAHAHA! 20:52:36 I do not know how that works. 20:52:58 You'll figure it out 20:53:03 It's a relatively simple game 20:53:04 never heard of df? 20:53:36 * Fiora is here 20:53:55 who is Fiora 20:54:09 are you actually Fiona with a pen that doesn't quite work 20:54:36 I don't even know how to start to figure it out. 20:54:39 um... I'm just a friend of Bike (I think that's his name here?)... he mentioned this channel had interesting things 20:54:45 and I read kmc's blog sometimes 20:54:49 do you play dwarf fortress 20:54:52 kmc has a blog!? 20:55:21 * Fiora hasn't ever, no :< 20:55:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:55:26 Phantom_Hoover: No. I tried once but it runs too slowly. 20:56:31 bike is bike, yes indeed. 20:56:35 if only lymia was still here 20:56:42 so you have to distinguish the instructions the BPF JIT emits from the instructions the attacker is smuggling in 20:57:05 Did anyone ask Fiora the Hexham/Finland question? 20:57:06 the latter are hidden within the immediate arguments to the former 20:57:29 okay, but like, let's say you have a JIT that compiles Java to x86, you can't control the x86 with the Java (at least not completely), right? 20:57:40 so how can you be sure to get the exact right instructions so that the smuggled instructions are right? 20:58:01 or does it let you give it full control over the input x86 (within the constraints at least?) 20:58:23 you have to know how that particular JIT works 20:58:25 presumably you have access to the JIT's source, or at least you can figure out what Java results in what x86 20:59:46 Fiora, are you in Hexham? 20:59:49 by reading its source, or by observing the output and determining it to be stable 20:59:58 (important question) 21:00:19 hexham? google says it's a city 21:00:24 in the case of the BPF JIT it is very easy because it translates each BPF instruction to a particular x86 instruction sequence, regardless of the context 21:00:32 Hexham's a city!? 21:00:34 It's a town 21:00:39 @google hexham 21:00:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexham 21:00:40 Title: Hexham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 21:00:42 erm, town I guess? 21:00:46 Yeah 21:00:49 a fancier jit will have fancier instruction selection, register allocation, non-local optimizations, etc. 21:00:52 I'm from the US <_<; 21:00:55 Okay 21:01:09 so could the JIT try to be "more secure" by doing unpredictable things with the code? 21:01:10 and with a tracing JIT what's compiled is not a whole function but a single control-flow path, which can span several function and skip parts of each 21:01:12 There are a ridiculous number of people from Hexham in this channel 21:01:13 like based on /dev/random 21:01:18 yeah 21:01:32 Up to 2 at any time 21:01:33 I guess, random register allocation, random splitting of constants, random insturction reordering... 21:01:36 And Finland is worse 21:02:12 Although more proportional to its population 21:04:18 if you were from the west midlands it'd emerge as a strong contender too 21:04:23 random splitting of constants would be the big one, I suppose, since then the attacker can't even guarantee they'll have a sequence of bytes to jump to. 21:04:36 I guess, but what if you could do it entirely without constants? 21:04:37 *an appropriate 21:04:41 like, just with opcodes and r/m bytes 21:04:48 that might be really hard though 21:04:51 Phantom_Hoover, shall I just start one? 21:06:00 I don't think most JITs are going to emit the really complicated instructions that would be good for that? 21:06:34 weird, I can't get systrace to work on my 4.1 android phone. It should work but I get error messages about stuff under /sys/kernel/debug not existing... 21:06:43 I guess if you could control the register allocation... but if it used only like a couple registers... yeah that would be hard... 21:06:47 I guess you'd have to try to be sure 21:06:53 atriq, i don't think elliott is going to make a showing so yeah 21:06:58 unless Vorpal wants to 21:07:29 Should I play vanilla or that mod you posted the other day? 21:07:33 With the anthracite 21:07:42 anthramod! 21:08:13 Phantom_Hoover, want what? 21:08:44 start a succession fortress 21:08:50 naah 21:09:09 nah* 21:09:11 good 21:10:07 why is that good? 21:10:07 Okay, worldgen has begun 21:11:06 everyone listen to sburban jungle! 21:11:42 Listening! 21:11:44 (has Vorpal even heard sburban jungle) 21:12:08 Phantom_Hoover, think so, ages ago 21:12:16 not sure why I would listen to it now though 21:12:55 Dwarf Fortress worldgen isn't as awesome as SBurb loading screen 21:13:06 well, the rendering isn't 21:13:14 fizzie, FireFly, there? I left eclipse running on that upgrade... It just finished XD 21:13:16 True 21:13:32 some pretty crazy stuff happens in worldgen 21:13:58 Some pretty crazy stuff happens in SBurb worldgen too, mind 21:14:14 Although time travel/predestination makes it unclear when that happens 21:14:19 Vorpal: huh? 21:14:24 isn't sburb worldgen the final section of gameplay 21:14:30 FireFly, remember we talked about that yesterday or so? 21:14:49 FireFly, the slooow eclipse upgrade? 21:15:00 doesn't ring any bells 21:15:08 weird, who was it then I talked to 21:15:18 Phantom_Hoover, I think so? 21:15:22 I know fizzie, and I thought you too 21:15:22 Who knows 21:15:24 hmm maybe 21:15:28 oh well, doesn't matter 21:15:39 -!- jix has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:15:48 although i don't think we've seen a single standard sburb game so who knows 21:15:51 -!- jix has joined. 21:16:17 It's possible there is no such thing 21:16:26 Maybe the point of SBurb is to teach its players 21:16:48 It teaches the trolls that supreming over everyone is bad 21:17:01 And sometimes you have to admit that others are in some respects superior? 21:17:58 And did that by making their subsession glitched in a way I don't know what I'm saying 21:19:27 WorldGen is complete 21:19:46 Just as the third version of SBurban Jungle I have starts playing 21:19:52 third? 21:19:57 i only know of 2! 21:20:14 Two are identical 21:20:28 There's the Volume 4 version, the Volumes 1-4 version, and the Brief Mix 21:20:42 There we go, the brief mix has just finished 21:20:55 Now for SBurban Reversal 21:21:23 no 21:21:27 you use that for world ungen 21:21:40 Terezi Owns? 21:22:02 sburban countdown? 21:22:23 sburban jungle: percussion mix? 21:24:02 Okay, now to browse the suitable sites 21:24:18 To ElevatorStuck 21:25:19 I've found a good place, it's quite hot 21:25:36 -!- monqy has joined. 21:25:45 hey monqy did you learn to play dwarf fortress 21:26:04 Vorpal: That was reasonable. 21:26:17 Vorpal: And yes, I remember the upgrade. 21:27:16 atriq, make sure to name the starting 7 21:27:35 Hot, heavily forested, thick vegetation, wilderness, brook, some soil, shallow metals, deep metals, flux stone 21:27:43 cool 21:27:47 wait, brook? 21:27:49 yessssssss 21:28:05 :) 21:28:10 Vorpal: The other person commenting on it was FreeFull, incidentally. 21:28:19 The brook is called Bunnyidol 21:28:23 finally a site where i can find an easily-accessible source of working fluid for my generators 21:28:27 Which sounds somewhat suspicious 21:28:39 (Both are "FFs".) 21:29:17 Should I prepare for the journey carefully? 21:29:22 Commenting on what? 21:29:36 FreeFull: On Vorpal's slow Eclipse upgrade. 21:30:05 I'm not going out there and making people's Eclipse upgrades slow 21:30:20 No, but you commented on hypothetical reasons for it. 21:30:27 Or at least someone with your name did. 21:30:42 atriq, only if you don't want to get started this week 21:31:22 Embarking, whey-hey! 21:31:30 what is suspicious 21:31:36 "Palacecrushed" 21:31:43 bunnyidol is 21:31:45 FreeFull, the name of this brook 21:33:36 -!- segorev has joined. 21:35:07 Okay, stuff IS HAPPENING 21:35:31 are you making it hapen 21:35:48 where making this hapen 21:36:11 were DOIN it bro! 21:39:09 Just struck Haemetite 21:39:46 Or however that's spelt 21:40:01 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:40:36 Okay, we've also got Sphalerite, so I guess we could make zinc? 21:40:36 haematite 21:41:09 we can make things out of brass i guess 21:43:35 First bedroom built! 21:43:55 dwarves don't build! 21:44:32 By which I mean, first bedroom made a bedroom 21:44:33 is dwarf fortress a rogue-like derivative of minecraft or something? 21:44:49 not really 21:45:23 it's kind of like rts minecraft except you don't have direct control over your units and you just designate tasks to be carried out 21:46:04 you have units in minecraft? 21:46:13 A unit. 21:46:18 that's the rts part 21:46:22 I thought it was like a first-person shooter 21:46:30 except without the shooting 21:46:33 I've just struck fortification agate 21:46:41 It's a first-person miner 21:46:42 gate 21:46:44 good idea 21:46:57 There's some bow-shooting going on in Minecraft. 21:46:59 Imagine Minecraft meets Rollercoaster Tycoon meets Pikmin 21:47:12 Oh, it's a gem 21:47:22 I thought it was some sort of concrete or something 21:47:33 you have a bunch of dwarves, they need to be kept alive and happy 21:47:34 But that's fortification aggregate 21:48:09 you designate an area for mining or a workshop to be built or whatever and eventually they'll do it 21:48:51 but you can't directly control any of them 21:49:16 I thought that horribly crappy Sonic animation was bad in YouTube recommendations, but now it's some "live-action" (..maybe, judging from the thumbnail..) thing with Sonic edited in, titled "A Day in the Life of Sonic- Sonic tries to get laid". 21:49:55 And then some Battle Programmer Shirase stuff. (Okay, at least that's kinda hilarious.) 21:54:49 Vorpal: The other person commenting on it was FreeFull, incidentally. <--- aah, FF in both cases 21:55:15 FireFly, so in practise it could have been you :P Very similar nick shape 21:55:54 Heh 21:56:17 FireFly has one less letter 21:56:28 sure, but apart from that, very similar 21:56:58 FreeFull, anyway, I left the eclipse upgrade running, I finished just half an hour ago or something like that 21:57:03 which is absurd 21:57:23 looks like the eclipse mirror system is royally fucked up to me, "no mirrors found" it says now for me 21:57:36 I usually distinguish by nick length and nick colour. Not that the latter is very helpful in this case: http://i.imgur.com/t15X7.png 21:57:51 I don't do coloured nicks 21:58:32 ah now it started working again, (the mirror system) 22:01:25 Agriculture has started 22:01:26 I have all my nicks white 22:01:31 On a black background 22:01:42 Unless someone highlights me, then their nick is yellow on that line 22:01:45 blue on a white background (using xchat atm) 22:02:02 my own lines are grey, and highlights are red 22:02:10 oh and the text is black 22:02:30 yay, i got stonesense working 22:02:41 Phantom_Hoover, I never had any problems with that 22:02:55 what were the issues? 22:03:12 dependencies, also forgetting to set the compile flag 22:03:18 aah 22:04:48 Currently I'm channelling out a massive tower thing. 22:09:10 It is now summer 22:09:37 Damn, this fortress is already dying FPS death. 22:09:52 Phantom_Hoover, what is the cause? 22:09:55 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:09 Try turning down your graphics settings? 22:10:15 XD 22:10:59 also dfhack now has an ingame version of the dwarftherapist interface 22:11:05 i cannot overstate its usefulness 22:11:16 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 22:13:27 FPS? 22:13:28 Phantom_Hoover, dwarftherapist? 22:13:30 what is that 22:14:23 are you kidding me 22:15:04 Phantom_Hoover, I don't remember using that tool 22:15:10 what does it do 22:15:15 is it some sort of cheating tool? 22:15:22 I know a lot of dfhack is 22:15:46 it's the one that makes managing labours actually possible 22:15:54 oh that one, right 22:15:57 yeah 22:16:03 seen it 22:16:54 Phantom_Hoover: FPS death? 22:16:55 -!- Jafet has joined. 22:17:54 oerjan, when the game grinds to a halt. 22:18:03 DF is extremely simulation-heavy. 22:18:47 oh. 22:24:34 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:25:00 MIgrants! 22:32:50 so, they travel from atlantis to that planet with an atlantis-like tower; they initiate a revolution there, and deplete de zpm that was powering everything 22:33:08 leaving them defenseless from the wraith 22:33:33 and in return for that "help" they take a lot of the drones and jumpers 22:34:33 to make things better, sheppard gets to have sex with a girl by promising her he will marry her and they'll rule the planet together; then he dumps her and get back to atlantis (with his jumpers and drones) 22:35:19 how the heck is that morally suitable for a stargate team?? 22:35:26 oerjan, btw i named a dorf after you 22:35:38 he's the fortress carpenter, doctor and secondary miner 22:36:11 And his name is Garry. 22:36:16 Phantom_Hoover doesn't know oerjan's real name. 22:37:31 who wants to be the cook 22:37:37 wait no the cook will be garry 22:39:19 Did I travel back in time and give you Palacecrushed? 22:39:21 I hope so 22:39:38 no 22:39:39 Because then I will have a time machine 22:39:41 Aww 22:39:48 this is matchedroad 22:41:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:44:16 -!- augur has joined. 22:49:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:49:55 -!- augur has joined. 22:52:07 Dr. O. F 22:52:50 atriq, Phantom_Hoover, you saw the latest update, right? 22:52:55 With an [S]? 22:53:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:54:09 Yeah 22:54:19 Apparently the local Gamzee cosplayer was upset 22:54:47 i haven't! 22:54:57 Go! 22:54:58 Do! 22:55:00 Run! 22:55:01 Play! 22:55:03 Attack! 22:55:05 Defend! 22:55:10 Tackle! 22:55:14 Tail Whip! 22:55:20 * quintopia does all those thnigs to atriq 22:55:26 kinky 22:56:30 Not again 22:58:25 matchedroad seems to have fallen into a state where nobody is actually doing their job because they're too busy doing work on the megaproject 22:59:39 largely because of this overspecialisation it is also the unhappiest peacetime fort i have ever run 23:00:34 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:23:12 zzo38: weeeeeell I just tried my interpreter against your fibonacci program and it began to print an infinity of 1s 23:25:09 do you have more intel on whether that's because of your program or of my interpreter? (for instance do you have a simpler program?) 23:25:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:25:50 -!- DH____ has joined. 23:26:04 -!- DH____ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:49 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:29:29 nevermind 23:29:34 "Law of mathematics: any comprehensible math can be generalized to the point that it really f%*ks with your head." 23:29:36 :/ 23:30:02 apply recursively, get cat theory? 23:30:02 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 23:30:56 I was starting work on moving into the mighty Tower of Dorf when a goblin thief and a werecivet arrived in short succession 23:50:18 Bike: i'm sure it goes _way_ deeper than that. 23:50:37 what goes way deeper than what 23:50:52 than cat theory. 23:51:00 oh, probably 23:58:22 Sgeo: Is that how it works? Are you sure? 23:58:37 Arc_Koen: I don't know which is wrong (maybe both are wrong). 23:59:56 zzo38: well mostly I made a mistake while copying it (I don't have a parser yet, so now it looks like [Pushn 0; Succ; Pushn 0; Store; Pushinf; Loop [Pushn 0; Fetch; Output; Pushn 0; Fetch; Pushn 0; Fetch; Pushn 0; Succ; Fetch; Loop [Succ]; Pushn 0; Store; Pushn 0; Succ; Store]]