00:23:27 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:24:38 -!- raziellight has quit. 00:57:20 information-theoretically, how much do you lose by insisting on a self-synchronizing code 01:12:01 my guess is nothing in the limit of long enough strings 01:12:47 *code words 01:15:45 i think so too 01:15:49 or, sufficiently many code words 01:16:00 the framing is a constant amount of mutual information between the sender and receiver 01:25:08 the heating vents in my house are producing air that smells like naptha 01:36:39 just a portal to hell, nothing to worry about 01:39:25 k 01:42:25 kmc: have you had strawberries with balsamic vinegar yet! 01:44:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:45:06 no 01:46:52 the JavaScriptMVC people got back to me 01:47:24 kind of an odd response 01:47:34 it starts with "Thanks for pointing this out. And we will likely change it." 01:47:45 and then explains various reasons why they shouldn't have to change it and don't want to 01:48:58 haha 01:49:00 what are the reasons 01:49:19 predictable ones 01:49:28 (1) we didn't mean that so it doesn't count (2) even if we *did* mean that it'd be okay 01:49:34 (3) ??? 01:49:34 yeah 01:49:53 i will unfairly paraphrase them as "it's your fault for noticing that the word 'craftsman' is based on the word 'man'" 01:50:06 also "thinking of non-gendered terms is simply beyond my ability as a writer" 01:51:11 "craftspeople" hth 01:51:56 ends with 'Do you think we can ever live in a world where we can say "all woman created equal" or "craftsman" without everyone getting upset? Where people don't read into meanings that aren't there.' 01:52:04 which is a pretty perfect opportunity to link http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html 01:52:34 do you think we can ever live in a world where people who make shitty javascript frameworks don't consider themselves authorities on everything 01:52:35 also i guess this is one of those areas where calmly pointing out the unintended consequences of someone's actions is equivalent to "getting upset" 01:52:40 elliott: no hth 01:53:30 kmc: imo point out that "all woman created equal" isn't grammatically correct 01:53:43 heh 02:02:01 You could just use Text. :-) 02:02:04 Er. 02:02:07 That was my knee. 02:02:16 ugh, the "I didn't /intend/ to be sexist/racist/etc, so it wasn't" 02:02:28 kmc: That was the response you expected, right? 02:02:58 also they cited south park to make some unclear point 02:03:01 which is... not a great sign 02:03:05 shachaf: i expected worse 02:03:08 sounds like a bingo to me 02:03:33 "you think i'm sexist? well that just makes you sexistist!" 02:03:34 like, they are saying incorrect things, but in a way which is potentially open to calm discussion, and they *did* say they're going to change it 02:03:44 which is better than i hoped because i'm a misanthrope 02:03:48 or.... humanist?!?!? 02:04:01 `welcome Fiora 02:04:05 Fiora: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:04:07 welcome to the nick i haven't seen before treatment 02:04:11 available exclusively from elliott 02:04:20 kmc: aren't we all :'( 02:04:26 um, hi 02:04:33 i'm avoiding even saying that their word choice is "sexist" because at the end of the day this is a pretty small thing 02:04:38 i would say "exclusionary" and perhaps "alienating" 02:04:41 these are some good words 02:04:45 othering 02:04:49 yeah 02:04:49 exclusionary is probably the best I think 02:05:17 `WELCOME fiora 02:05:19 `welcome fiora 02:05:21 what other ones are there 02:05:21 FIORA: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) 02:05:26 i've lost track 02:05:29 `WeLcOmE Fiora 02:05:35 FiOrA: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 02:05:40 i think fullwidth only exists in upper case 02:05:42 `tervetuloa Fiora 02:05:45 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tervetuloa: not found 02:05:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found 02:05:50 WHAT 02:05:51 `WELCOME Fiora 02:05:54 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: WELCOME: not found 02:06:00 fizzie: add `tervetuloa thx 02:06:01 * Fiora hides 02:06:01 `Welcome Fiora 02:06:01 ``hello'' 02:06:04 welcoming is hard 02:06:04 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Welcome: not found 02:06:05 `w3lc0m3 Fiora 02:06:06 eep so many welcomes 02:06:06 where is it 02:06:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: w3lc0m3: not found 02:06:09 ion: add `tervetuloa thx 02:06:10 `run ls bin | paste 02:06:15 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22997 02:06:21 Fiora: don't you dare feel welcome until this is over 02:06:29 "WELCOME" a victory for bad encoding 02:06:30 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `hello'': not found 02:06:32 `welcome | rot13 02:06:33 man there are only three welcomes 02:06:37 ​|: rot13: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:06:39 what is this garbage 02:06:40 buh 02:06:44 `WELCOME Fiora 02:06:44 `run welcome Fiora | rot13 02:06:49 ​FIORA: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS. 02:06:52 perfect 02:06:54 @___@ 02:06:54 Unknown command, try @list 02:07:00 perhaps we are... coming on too strong? 02:07:09 no 02:07:10 No output. 02:07:15 stay strong, fiora, irc bots can't last forever 02:07:19 thats not enough welcome imo 02:07:23 Fiora: do you know who "sgeo" is 02:07:33 `run welcome Fiora | tr 'a-zA-Z' 'n-za-mN-ZA-M' 02:07:36 um... I don't think os 02:07:37 Svben: Jrypbzr gb gur vagreangvbany uho sbe rfbgrevp cebtenzzvat ynathntr qrfvta naq qrcyblzrag! Sbe zber vasbezngvba, purpx bhg bhe jvxv: uggc://rfbynatf.bet/jvxv/Znva_Cntr. (Sbe gur bgure xvaq bs rfbgrevpn, gel #rfbgrevp ba vep.qny.arg.) 02:07:37 *so 02:07:38 ok 02:07:42 i was just typing that god dammit 02:07:44 Sgeo: put Fiora on the list 02:07:46 except i stole the tr off google 02:07:49 because i am bad 02:07:53 Fiora: "you won't regret this" 02:07:59 Sgeo is the emperor of hexham 02:08:01 wait what list 02:08:04 Fiora: You don't want to be on the list. 02:08:06 Seriously. 02:08:11 The list is the most annoying thing to be on. 02:08:12 idon'tevenknowwhat'sgoingon 02:08:22 how do you tell if you're on the list 02:08:23 Fiora: Remember: "stay off the list" 02:08:28 `run welcome Fiora | perl -e '$a=<>;print reverse $a' 02:08:29 Bike: Sgeo tells you 02:08:32 Fiora: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:08:34 fuck!! 02:08:36 what did i do wrong 02:08:38 what even is the list <_> 02:08:43 Sgeo: Don't you dare put Fiora on the list, you hear? 02:08:47 help 02:09:02 `run welcome Fiora | python -e '__import__("sys").stdout.write(__import__("sys").stdin.read().reverse())' 02:09:06 Unknown option: -e \ usage: python [option] ... [-c cmd | -m mod | file | -] [arg] ... \ Try `python -h' for more information. 02:09:09 wtf!!!! 02:09:12 `run welcome Fiora | python -c '__import__("sys").stdout.write(__import__("sys").stdin.read().reverse())' 02:09:16 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "", line 1, in \ AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'reverse' 02:09:25 ugh i hate python 02:09:29 welcoming is harder than I ever could have imagined. 02:09:31 the feeling is apparently mutual :p 02:09:34 `run welcome Fiora | perl -pe '$_ = reverse $_;' 02:09:34 `run welcome Fiora | python -c '__import__("sys").stdout.write(reversed(__import__("sys").stdin.read()))' 02:09:38 ​\ ).ten.lad.cri no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF( .egaP_niaM/ikiw/gro.sgnalose//:ptth :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :aroiF 02:09:42 perfect 02:09:46 ^scramble Fiora: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:09:47 Foa ecm oteitrainlhbfreoei rgamn agaedsg n elyet o oeifrain hc u u ii tp/eoag.r/iiMi_ae Frteohrkn feoeia r eoei nicdlnt).e.a.r ocrts#yt,crts odi et h o(.gPna/kwgosnls/:th:kwrotokec,otmon rmrF!nmopddanie gunl ... 02:09:55 come on 02:09:56 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "", line 1, in \ TypeError: must be string or read-only character buffer, not reversed 02:09:57 what did I start here ._. 02:09:58 i give up 02:10:00 you don't get any more welcomes 02:10:00 @where zalgo 02:10:00 import Random;main=mapM_((>>(י=< fuck the world 02:10:03 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving"). 02:10:06 what. 02:10:11 wow 02:10:17 welcoming is really hard. 02:10:18 * Fiora is completely confuzzled 02:10:20 do you feel welcomed? 02:10:27 um not really 02:10:44 i'll tell elliott he goofed 02:10:57 -!- elliott has joined. 02:10:59 anyone else for me to welcome 02:11:01 you goofed 02:11:09 Fͫi͘örͯa͜:͟ ͊W̗e̚l͖c̴oͣm̌ȅ ̃ṱo̔ ͂t̀h̥e͚ ̬i̸n͝t̍eͦrͅn͆a̱t̋i̮o̱n̓a̟l͡ ̭h̞u̪b̈́ ͤf͛o̎r̞ ̐eͭšo͞ţe̲r͎i͓cͫ ͇p̜r̠o̝g͡r͢ăm̚m̾i͗n̜gͨ ͧlͧa̠n͢g̽ûa͛ğe͎ ͊d͍e̋s̮ȋg͔nͤ ͎a̐n͜d͏ ̪d̘eͭpͪlͫo͠y̠m̻e̴n̽t̍!̉ ͍F͎ỏr̔ ̞ṁo̴ŕê ̓i͆n̻f͙o̥r͑mͦât̟i̭o̐n̄,͊ ̕c̉h̃e͊c͊ǩ ͠o̳u͇t̼ ͣo͜uͩr̳ ͑w̾i̟k͏iͬ:̉ ... 02:11:15 ... ̓h̎t͋tͥp̳:̮/̳/͉e͊ŝo̢l͕aͫn̝gͨs̴.̲o̶r̺g͞/̲w͎i̵k̂ĩ/ͅM̵aͩi̜n͝_̿Pͪäg͗eͩ.͊ ́(ͮF͜o͐r̵ ͥt͈h́e̴ ͢o̮tͩh̿eͅr̝ ͦk͓i͙n͖d̒ ̲oͥf͙ ͍e̟s̼o̙t̹e̴r̂i̠c̟a̸,̀ ̡t̄r̮y͡ ͛#̄eͥs͈ōt͆e̷r͌i̽c̝ ͋o̫nͩ ͮi̔r̢c̬.ͫdͩa͗ĺ.̑ǹe͍t͓.̜)͗ 02:11:47 Fiora: "btw we don't like your kind" 02:11:47 huh, the diacritic barf looks almost like music with all those overbars 02:12:03 what is my kind 02:12:06 um 02:12:07 newcomers 02:12:21 excuse me 02:12:25 Newcomers always demand so much attention! 02:12:26 mmm zalgo 02:12:27 i just spent several minutes welcoming Fiora 02:12:29 i wrote that zalgoizer 02:12:36 kmc: I know! 02:12:37 rather upset at the implication that i don't like newbies 02:12:42 Back in the golden days of kmc+#haskell 02:12:58 Newcomers always need to be welcomed 12 different ways. 02:13:00 mostly i like that it uses literal combining characters in the source 02:13:01 So annoying! 02:13:07 i wonder if a strict reading of the haskell report would reject it 02:13:08 Fiora: also where did you come from. this is part of your mandatory #esoteric survey 02:13:16 a) hexham b) finland c) other 02:13:20 um, Bike invited me 02:13:21 I linked her kmc's article on jit spraying. 02:13:26 noted 02:13:31 i believe in fact that Fiora was here yesterday 02:13:39 you both have short names that start with an uppercase letter so that makes sense 02:13:51 11:55 Fiora: well we all hate Lolcode here, that's similar 02:13:51 drat, our camouflage foiled 02:13:54 i noticed that we have both a FreeFull and FireFly, that's confusing 02:14:01 kmc: can't bring out all the welcomes before you know someone's serious 02:14:22 * oerjan swats FireFly for confusing people -----### 02:14:23 Fiora: You know, I never got the welcome treatment. 02:14:38 * oerjan then swats Fiora for confusing his tab completion -----### 02:14:45 owwwww 02:14:58 kmc: Did you ever get `welcomed? 02:15:05 Fiora: it's ok. you'll get used to it. after a while the swats don't even hurt 02:15:13 I've been registered with nickserv for almost two years longer than FireFly 02:15:13 sometimes i don't even notice i was swatted 02:15:23 * oerjan swats elliott for demonstration -----### 02:15:23 but shouldn't you swat, like, the fly 02:15:32 FireFly probably was in the channel before me though 02:15:35 I don't want to be swatted 02:15:35 Just what are you implying! 02:15:36 `quote FireFly.*dies 02:15:41 62) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies 02:15:50 `quote hi 02:15:53 6) His body should be given to science. He's alive :P Even so. \ 9) Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? not yet trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 13) "You're at that stage in your life where you're going to want to do some things in private." --my mom \ 16) @quote 02:15:55 simonpj says: My brain is too small to figure out the consequences of adding first-class existentials to Haskell 02:16:06 Aww. 02:16:19 Clearly there's only one reasonable option. 02:16:30 Fiora: i already did hth 02:16:45 oerjan: You should swat me. 02:17:20 * oerjan swats the word "should" -----### 02:17:50 You oughter swat me. 02:17:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEHwtD01MXc 02:18:26 elliott! 02:18:32 elliott: I bet you feel like figuring out my lens problem. 02:18:34 what 02:18:35 no 02:18:37 edwardk and I haven't figured it out yet. 02:18:44 "imagine the glory" 02:18:48 i have a theremin, it's better than this one 02:19:00 i have no theremins 02:19:02 which is even better 02:19:07 if you think about it 02:20:08 kmc: "Do you have a "code along" so I can get in on this ? Just wondering." 02:20:24 is that like a sing along 02:20:35 yeah i don't know man 02:20:38 follow the bouncing ball 02:20:42 maybe i shouldn't say "i don't know man" 02:20:49 i don't know, ppl 02:20:51 there we go 02:20:58 prsn 02:21:01 You can say "dude" 02:21:05 That's gender-neutral. 02:21:06 is ppl an acronym 02:21:11 Pretty Popular Lake 02:21:20 elliott: stands for "ppl for ppl liberation" 02:21:45 parts per liter 02:22:02 "parts per lollion" 02:22:13 ppl's per ppl 02:22:20 wait, that no sense 02:22:31 Ppp Ppp Lll 02:22:44 "python programming language", apparently 02:22:59 i, too, don't know python programming language 02:23:04 porcupines postulating latently 02:23:06 "ppl programming language" 02:23:14 "GET IT: recursive arconym" 02:23:16 monqy: you don't know python?? knowing python is such a thrill 02:23:33 elliott: i know python as much as anyone!!!! 02:23:34 shachaf: woah 02:23:36 that fucks my brain 02:23:50 Python Is a pretty Cool language But I have Some Improvements 02:24:04 ppl stands for "language with no recursive acronym" 02:24:22 monqy: the average person is pretty bad at python imo 02:24:25 hi ppl 02:24:31 i was self-referentially complaining about hipsters before it was cool 02:24:32 Fiora: are you still feeling welcome 02:24:36 just checking 02:24:38 -!- Jafet1 has joined. 02:25:03 elliott: im probably "bad at python" just because of i try doing things and python does stupid things 02:25:09 i'm going to keep saying that until someone acknowledges how fantastic it is 02:25:18 elliott: "i know python as much as anyone" --> the supremum of the set of everyone 02:25:18 sorry kmc but nothing you say or do will ever be fantastic :( 02:25:19 just kidding 02:25:30 but could i be... fabulous? 02:25:38 maybe faaaaabulous? 02:25:55 kmc: Isn't it great when you're reading a book from the 1950s and "fantastic" doesn't mean "very good"? 02:25:58 `quote haskell 02:26:02 210) 22:55 < qfr> How am I supposed to develop software in Haskell if I can't even prepare my projects in UML?! It seems like an impossible task. HAHA [...] this is amazing, like meeting a Mormon or something \ 366) [after a long string of Lymia getting lambdabot to spit out huge, meaningless type signatures] I need to learn more Haskell... ..I need 02:26:25 perhaps the reason the adjective "awesome" dominates is that all others are perceived as "too gay" 02:26:40 what a reason, that 02:27:17 What's wrong with bright, happy adjectives? 02:27:17 monqy: "is this this channe p. bad right now" 02:27:23 the morman doorman 02:27:26 coming this fall to CBS 02:27:31 kmc: what a gaysome theory 02:27:59 #esoteric 02:27:59 Nothing here 02:28:01 never stop sucking 02:28:03 shut up oonbotti 02:28:22 FreeFull: have you considered changing your nick to "fremont" 02:28:29 fremont: the best nick 02:28:59 ..I need 02:29:03 WHAT DID I NEED 02:29:04 er, excuse me 02:29:09 What did I need? 02:29:16 elliott: should i use spivak pronouns like sorear 02:29:24 if you want to 02:29:54 kallisti: it was CakeProphet, not you 02:30:08 kmc: Every noun is instantly assigned a gender in my mind. :-( 02:30:13 "does that make me sexist" 02:30:14 Jafet1: nothing wrong with them unless you are super paranoid about anyone thinking you might be gay, which apparently a lot of heterosexual men are 02:30:14 elliott: why would you lie to yourself like that 02:30:17 don't totally understand 02:30:22 `quote I need 02:30:25 226) I need a new desktop background j-invariant: Try http://codu.org/spinners.png (tiled) uhrghoaudp \ 279) 00:07 Sgeo has quit (IRC is taking up too much of my time. I need time to study the Bible and find Christ.) 00:12 Sgeo has joined #esoteric. \ 366) [after a long string of Lymia getting lambdabot to spit out huge, meaningless type signatures] I need to learn more 02:30:32 oh no 02:30:32 that didnt help monqy 02:30:36 shachaf: is this because of hebrew or finnish or something 02:30:37 that made it worse 02:30:42 I think X is a pretty cool guy. E respects all genders and doesn't afraid of anything. 02:30:42 kmc: Hebrew, yes. 02:30:46 kmc: By the way, it's not always the same gender as in Hebrew. 02:30:47 `quote 366 02:30:51 366) [after a long string of Lymia getting lambdabot to spit out huge, meaningless type signatures] I need to learn more Haskell... ..I need to get op privs. 02:31:00 oh 02:31:01 a world in which CakeProphet has ops. what a world 02:31:07 kmc: Finnish doesn't distinguish "he" from "she"! 02:31:07 pbuh 02:31:08 well that was underwhelming 02:31:09 finnish++ 02:31:14 shachaf: woah 02:31:19 let's all speak finnish 02:31:34 They're both "hän" 02:31:41 kmc: "yeah but then you have to speak finnish" 02:31:48 isn't finnish's singular they also their "it" 02:31:53 that's sensible 02:31:55 s/"//g needs to be more confusing 02:32:08 s/'s// 02:32:21 it puts the lotion -- you know what, nevermind 02:32:33 hi what's going on 02:32:38 @localtime Fiora 02:32:40 Local time for Fiora is Tue Nov 20 02:32:39 2012 02:32:46 Fiora: GET OUT OF HERE YOU'RE RUINING MY TAB COMPLETION 02:32:49 @localtime fizzie 02:32:50 i'm trying to figure out a way to point out that labeling your opponents as "upset" is a classic tool of the patriarchy, a way of pointing this out which has some chance of being productive 02:32:50 Local time for fizzie is Tue Nov 20 04:32:49 2012 02:32:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 02:33:01 that's not going to make Fiora feel very welcome shachaf............... 02:33:08 Fiora: "sorry :'(" 02:33:14 Fiora: you can stay 02:33:14 can't drop the p-bomb just yet 02:33:38 * shachaf is not a fan of the p-bomb 02:33:38 kmc: feel like making a terrible u mad joke round about now 02:33:42 do it 02:33:49 no i have to maintain my dignity!!! 02:33:53 you have to be willing to throw it all away for a u mad joke 02:33:54 elliott: I have ops in other channels. thank you very much. I only occasionally abuse it. 02:33:54 what dignity 02:33:57 i can't find what p bomb means 02:33:59 kmc: maybe making parallels with "hysteria", though maybe i'm assuming too much about people's knowledge of victorian psychology 02:34:08 monqy: it's when you pee into a balloon and then throw it at someone 02:34:17 i saw that on TV 02:34:22 spoiler alert: it did not go as planned 02:34:35 https://deepclimate.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/contraian-publication-record.gif i'm searching but??????? 02:34:44 Bike: hysteria: a sexist word?? 02:34:48 http://www.p-bomb.net/ hELP????? 02:34:50 mcintyre........... what are you doing 02:34:57 wow nice site 02:35:06 not as good as sour cereal though 02:35:19 * KALLISTI is starting a new trend of UPPERCASE nicks 02:35:27 just wait. 2 years from now. everyone will be doing it. 02:35:39 too long have the lowercase nicks reigned supreme. 02:35:43 /nick ΚΑΛΛΙΣΤΗΙ 02:35:53 can we start a new trend of kicking people with uppercase nicks 02:35:55 You laugh at the right jokes, you fire back witty (but not to witty) remarks, your eyes take on a extra little sparkle and then, it happens. The 'P' Bomb. 02:36:04 I can't read that because putty sucks at UTF-8 apparently. or maybe it's Windows system fonts or something 02:36:19 hacked by greek 02:36:36 Short for "party bomb", P-Bombs are typically spoken in secret. 02:36:37 Used by people in the party industry, P-bombers talk trash about other people inside and outside of the industry; other party professionals, vendors and clients.. 02:36:38 aim hecked 02:36:39 Whether they know it or not, dropping P-bombs works 100% against them. 02:36:58 wow this is a thing 02:37:20 In my humble opinion, Charles Barkley is the greatest on-air talent we have in the United States; I can honestly say that with a straight face. 02:37:20 He is completely honest and if you can't laugh while watching him on a broadcast then something may be wrong with you. 02:37:20 Last night, the Orlando Magic advanced to the NBA Finals by knocking off LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers. However the highlight of the night for me came when Charles Barkley called his producer a p***y on air. 02:37:22 i'm getting this all from multiple sources i want to be sure i have the right definition 02:37:27 Yes, that's right: Charles Barkley really did say that. Talk about coming out of left field. 02:37:37 The reason you're not finding anything is because there is no such thing as a phosphorus bomb today. The proper name is "incendiary bomb with white phosphorus", and it was outclassed by napalm since Korean War. 02:37:40 it's the reporters with NO understanding of military terms, that invent names like "phosphorus bomb". 02:38:01 Neopets "P-bomb" In-Depth Weapon Info | Neopets Battlepedia 02:38:03 p***y? 02:38:08 that has some difficult phonation. 02:38:10 p art y 02:38:24 the "p" bomb 02:38:28 KALLISTI: "its just a terminal emulator that doesnt support greek" 02:38:39 shachaf: who are you quoting 02:38:44 [citation needed] 02:38:46 KALLISTI: monqy 02:38:54 called him a p***y 02:38:57 called him a PuTTY? 02:39:26 i just realized PuTTY is way awesomer if you read it as "Pu TTY" instead of "putty" 02:39:50 is a party on air anything like when you have a thing "on ice", like with the ice skating puppets and stuff 02:39:52 no it still sucks either way 02:39:53 putty: radioactive?? 02:39:56 this p-bomb result looks good but it won't load 02:40:04 but maybe now the puppets are in the air 02:40:07 oh it's cached 02:40:14 Each time we venture outside of our beloved Orange Bubble, we are sure to meet and chat with the many non-Princetonians of the world. It is at this time that we are confronted with a perplexing dilemma that can have far-reaching implications for the rest of the interactions we will have with this person: Do we reveal the fact that we go to Princeton? And if we do, how do we go about it? 02:40:14 There seems to be this sense of discomfort, this tendency toward hesitation, whenever a situation arises where we are prompted to disclose the name of our university. This is true not only for Princeton students, but for students of every school that has gained a prestigious reputation. However, to keep the focus on us, there is a Princeton-specific phrase that one of my classmates once used for this sort of university disclosure that I will use 02:40:15 henceforth, and that phrase is “dropping the P-bomb.” 02:40:27 wow this might be the most pretentious thing ever written 02:40:38 i have a check which is cached 02:40:44 When entering into a conversation with a stranger of the non-Princetonian variety, the accepted protocol is not to first ask what res college the person is from, what they’re planning on majoring in and the other banal college questions we like to ask each other, but to start off more broadly. Introductions do usually include information about what people do with their lives, however, and it is a normal convention to ask college-age-looking peo 02:40:44 ple if and where they go to school. 02:40:44 When this question arises, we have two viable options: the straight P-bomb route or the New Jersey route. Many of us, I’ve learned, like to first choose the New Jersey route, where we simply answer the question of what college we go to with “ I go to school in New Jersey.” 02:40:53 "correct facsimile" 02:41:09 'did they teach you that word at Talk Like a Dick School' 02:41:12 [...] 02:41:12 The first possibility is this: We are not uncomfortable with dropping the P-bomb at all. In fact, maybe it’s our favorite thing to do. Maybe we love that moment when people ask us where we go to school so much that we draw it out, make it last longer, make a production out of it. They ask what school we go to, we name a state instead. Answering in this vague way effectively doubles the number of questions we get to answer about where we go to s 02:41:12 chool, and we love that. And the suspense! We create this awesome level of suspense so that when they ask question number two — “Where in New Jersey?” — we can really drive it home with a nice, resounding “Princeton!” 02:41:33 oh no it has 18 comments but the cache doesn't have them 02:41:48 cache for your warhol 02:42:13 CACHE 4 GOLD 02:42:15 no 02:42:17 CACHE 4 PLUTONIUM 02:43:00 elliott: is plutonium still dangerous now that it's not named after a planet 02:43:02 "imo no" 02:43:10 who are you quoting 02:43:14 KALLISTI 02:43:21 what 02:43:27 that is me 02:43:30 yes 02:44:07 no im KALLISTI 02:44:24 help 02:44:26 are amazon mp3 songs watermarked 02:44:32 5 year article in wirde says they are not 02:44:33 wired too 02:44:36 weird magazine 02:44:39 I think shachaf has lost his mind 02:44:54 too much referential transparency. 02:45:27 kmc: how would you tell if they're watermarked? 02:45:34 i probably can't 02:45:39 that is why i am asking other people 02:45:45 'cos i have a few songs from amazon and I haven't noticed anything 02:45:53 for example someone in this channel might be jeff bezos's secret confidant 02:46:01 other than the weird program you have to use to download albums for some damn reason 02:46:03 if it's at all competent it would not be hear-able 02:46:05 yeah what's with that program 02:46:08 i have some open source workalike 02:46:18 kmc: The id3 tag says Amazon! 02:46:21 "totally a watermark" 02:46:27 i am jeff bezos 02:46:31 shiiiii- 02:46:37 [connection reset by peer] 02:46:42 [kmc died on the way to his home planet] 02:46:47 shachaf: who are you quoting 02:46:49 im not a planet 02:46:51 «All tracks were originally sold in 256 kilobits-per-second variable bitrate MP3 format without per-customer watermarking or DRM; however some tracks are now watermarked.» ok 02:46:55 KALLISTI: elliott 02:47:06 without watermarking with watermarking 02:47:12 256 kilobits-per-second variable bitrate motion picture experts' group layer III format 02:47:37 Em Pi Shalosh 02:47:45 kmc: gotta expand III too 02:47:45 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=dm_adp_uits?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200422000 02:47:55 successor of successor of successor of zero 02:48:04 shachaf: how do I know!!!! 02:48:04 zero is dead?! 02:48:10 long live one 02:48:21 fix succ 02:48:34 fux sicc 02:48:39 > void [1..] > voided 5 02:48:41 True 02:48:47 elliott: "lazy nats in lambdabot?????" 02:48:49 :t voided 02:48:51 Int -> [()] 02:48:56 :t void 02:48:57 shachaf: who are you quoting 02:48:58 Functor f => f a -> f () 02:49:00 ew 02:49:06 gross 02:49:26 :t voided 02:49:27 Int -> [()] 02:49:36 huh. okay. 02:49:50 If you have multiple copies purchased could you use that to eliminate watermarks? 02:50:00 Bike: i use clamz 02:50:03 it's in debian 02:50:05 works all rite 02:50:25 sweet 02:50:28 zzo38: Sounds like a fun watermarking scheme. 02:50:28 zzo38: yes. mv nowatermark.mp3 watermark.mp3 02:51:00 Such that given a file with two different watermarks you can't get an unwatermarked version. 02:51:22 Er, two different files. 02:51:29 "whatever" 02:52:54 KALLISTI: Not what I mean. I mean that multiple customer purchase it, combine it, to make it such that you now have a new watermark which is difficult to trace to the individuals unless you know the key you used. 02:55:36 I see I've been quoted. 02:55:53 I wonder if I was quoted saying that there is no computable set of axioms in first-order logic that uniquely defines the natural numbers. 02:56:06 ...Gee, there's no computable set of aximos in first-order logic that uniquely defines the natural numbers. 02:56:09 That's pretty weird. 02:56:47 tswett: what about: 02:57:05 "1. numbers 2. natural" 02:58:00 Good job, you've successfully broken mathematics. 02:58:20 This will cause the world to explode in 1,000 days. 02:58:46 so how bout them natural numbers, eh? ain't no computable set of axioms what can uniquely define them 02:59:32 I know, right? 02:59:34 That sure is weird. 02:59:58 It makes me want to, like, postulate two hypothetical non-isomorphic standard models of the natural numbers. 03:01:00 Let's do that now. Let Na be a model of the natural numbers in which Goldbach's conjecture is false, and Nb be a model of the natural numbers in which Goldbach's conjecture is true. 03:01:06 kmc: not in first order logic 03:01:41 So in Na, there exists a natural number (call it g) that cannot be written as the sum of two primes. But in Nb, there is no such natural numbers. 03:01:58 Does g also exist in Nb? If so, then Nb must have some prime numbers that are absent from Na, right? 03:02:09 Is Goldbach's conjecture undecidable? Does it depend on models of natural numbers? 03:02:24 zzo38: yes if and only if yes. 03:02:29 Respectively. 03:02:51 I think it doesn't make much sense to say that Na and Nb both contain g, but Nb contains numbers smaller than g that Na does not contain. 03:02:55 O, but other than that it mean you don't know? 03:03:03 what's really crazy is that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadwiger%E2%80%93Nelson_problem might depend on set theoretic axioms 03:03:17 zzo38: ...I think that's right. 03:03:51 So what does make sense to me is to say that Na contains all the numbers that Nb contains, and then some. 03:03:57 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 03:04:13 Are there really different models of natural numbers which are not equivalent? 03:04:37 zzo38: well, it depends on what you mean by "models of natural numbers", exactly. If you mean "models of the first-order Peano axioms", then yes, certainly. 03:04:37 I would think: data Natural = Zero | Succ !Natural; 03:05:00 That's not a set of first-order axioms, though; that's a Haskell statement. 03:05:40 I know. But I thought it is equivalent? 03:05:42 zzo38: ⊥ :: Natural 03:06:10 COLON HYPHEN-MINUS LEFT PARENTHESIS????? 03:06:47 Well, if you ignore bottom, I mean. 03:06:53 kmc: I dunno, that's not so crazy to me. In the past, the real numbers used to seem ill-defined to me. Then I learned how they were defined, but they still seemed all iffy and abstract. 03:07:12 zzo38: well, yeah, that's kind of what the problem is. How do you say "ignore bottom" in first-order logic? 03:09:08 real numbers is hax 03:09:21 Okay, so Nb is a model of the natural numbers containing a counterexample to Goldbach's conjecture. Na is a model containing no such thing. We're also postulating that Nb is a supermodel of Na. 03:09:32 Say that a "nubber" is a number that's in Nb, but not in Na. 03:09:59 R is just P(N) 03:10:13 And a "namber" is one that's in Na. Aye? 03:10:25 is it a hyphen? or is it a minus? only your wallet knows for sure. 03:10:50 "don't believe the hype hen" 03:11:02 So the nambers are closed under addition, right? And multiplication, I think... exponentiation I'm not sure about. 03:11:08 double_facepalm.jpg 03:11:11 tswett: by "standard models" did you mean "non-standard models" above? 03:11:28 kmc: nope. 03:11:33 how can they both be standard? 03:11:36 I was kind of going for multiple standard models. 03:11:48 Well, how do you define "standard" here? 03:11:52 oh because we're talking about two different universes, with different results for t he goldbach conjecture 03:11:58 and the "standard" model in each one 03:12:04 That sounds right. 03:12:12 but it's not thought that goldbach is actually independent of axioms, ja? 03:12:37 It seems perfectly plausible that it is. 03:13:04 i have no idea how to even think about the plausibility of that statement 03:13:09 anyway please do proceed with your original train of thought 03:13:24 TRAAAAAIN 03:13:27 Well, does Goldbach's conjecture seem like it's probably decidable to you? 03:13:31 But I thought, natural numbers is just zero and successor? Therefore how can there be different models following this specification which are different Goldbach's? Since you can define addition, multiplication, etc, using finite numbers. Using something like Typographical Number Theory that might not be the case though, but if you define like zero and successor instead it seem. 03:13:32 sea dot sea 03:13:33 It's independent of the axioms if and only if it's undecidable. 03:14:09 zzo38: "just zero and successor" isn't a set of first-order axioms, either. 03:14:52 kmc: You should come back to #cslounge! 03:15:29 tswett: Well, yes, "just zero and successor" is like the Haskell statement I mentioned above, instead. Therefore, do you need a set of first-order axioms which means this specifically? 03:15:30 The first-order Peano axioms are a set of first-order axioms. They're infinite, but they're also a computable set. 03:15:53 shachaf: like a thief in the night 03:16:16 zzo38: well, I'm *talking about* sets of first-order axioms. 03:16:30 So if you want to talk about the same thing that I'm talking about, then yes, you need a set of first-order axioms. 03:17:35 I hate politeness. 03:17:51 It makes it impossible to ask someone "Hey, does this site work well for you" and actually get useful info 03:18:37 -!- tswett has set topic: E_TOPTOOOLD | the good news is, /usr/bin/make-loud-noises works. the bad news is, I think I just woke everyone up. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 03:19:06 what does it do 03:19:44 kmc, what, you want to test? 03:20:59 In Wikipedia "Peano axioms", if you just use 2,3,4,5 for eqality, and then you should define it. Is the zero and successor can be made the axioms from that? Due to such things as induction and so on, possibly not... and, is it infinite? They list nine axioms. 03:21:28 /usr/bin/make-loud-noises 03:21:41 they're axiom schema, aren't they 03:22:01 zzo38: axiom 9 is stated twice. First, it's stated as a second-order axiom, not a first-order axiom; second, it's stated as an infinite axiom schema. 03:22:59 O, it is an axiom schema. Now I can understand. 03:23:26 TNT has induction as a rule rather than axiom. 03:24:49 They also say "if there is a proof that starts from just these axioms and derives a contradiction such as 0 = 1, then the axioms are inconsistent, and don't define anything" but, if there would be such thing even if you omit axiom 7 or axiom 3, does it define anything? 03:25:07 "In particular, he gained international notoriety for his claims that blowing up the Moon would solve virtually every problem of human existence" 03:25:42 what 03:25:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Abian 03:26:12 zzo38: uhh, let me rephrase your question, and you can tell me if I rephrased it correctly. 03:26:50 "Suppose that, if you remove axioms from the Peano axioms, you can get an inconsistent system. Then are the Peano axioms inconsistent?" 03:27:01 «Abian said that "Those critics who say 'Dismiss Abian's ideas' are very close to those who dismissed Galileo."» usenet has the best cranks. 03:28:13 tswett: No. That is not what I meant. I meant that if you have 0=1 it seem would be to contradict the axioms I specified. So, if it is inconsistent, and then does that make it not inconsistent? 03:28:59 I don't know what you mean by "the axioms [you specified]", nor by the "it" in "if it is inconsistent", nor the "it" in "does that make it not inconsistent". 03:29:15 s/ specified]/] specified/ 03:29:50 kmc: Why would he say such things? Perhaps if they destroy humans it would solve that problem, if destroying the moon would have such effect, but still it won't help since it would mess up everything else too. Best way is allow planets to move how they do, to keep the solar system in order. 03:30:17 tswett: I mean axiom 3 and 7, I mean if you have 0=1 even if removing one of those two axioms. 03:30:21 zzo38 makes a good point 03:30:48 tswett: so, looking at tennenbaum's theorem... could you have an uncountable model of peano with computable arithmetic? 03:31:01 zzo38: yeah, sorry, I don't understand what you said, and I don't understand your attempts to get me to understand what you said. 03:31:16 Bike: no. 03:31:23 tswett: Oops, sorry!!!! 03:31:30 why not? 03:31:30 Bike: er, wait. Hm. 03:32:05 I thought Tennenbaum's theorem said that no nonstandard model of Peano arithmetic can be recursive; it actually says that no *countable* nonstandard model of Peano arithmetic can be recursive. 03:32:43 that's what I was referring to, yeah. 03:32:59 Bike: well, the thing is, I don't think "computable" makes sense as a property of uncountable sets. We only speak of the computability of a set of it contains only finite strings, I think. And no uncountable set contains only finite strings. 03:33:49 yeah, that's why I said computable arithmetic instead of computable set. 03:34:52 "Computable function" can be defined as "function that, when considered as a set, is a computable set". 03:35:16 And "computable arithmetic" presumably means "collection of arithmetic functions, each of which is a computable function". 03:36:18 so no models with computably dealt with nonstandard numbers, then 03:40:47 Yeah, that sounds true. 03:52:06 did you know there's no computable set of axioms in first-order logic that uniquely identifies when tswett will shut up about there being no computable set of axioms in first-order logic that can uniquely define the natural numbers 03:52:53 I will shut up about it after a non-standard amount of time. 03:53:16 how about right now 03:53:22 alt. in the past???? 03:53:33 either works 03:53:49 Nope, it's only been 23 seconds. 23 is a standard number. 03:53:59 how about eleventeen 03:54:09 I'm not sure. 03:54:31 Can you give me a first-order formula defining eleventeen? 04:00:35 11 = succ succ succ succ succ succ succ succ succ succ succ 0 04:00:53 > succ succ succ succ succ succ succ succ succ succ succ 0 04:00:55 No instances for (GHC.Enum.Enum 04:00:55 ((((((((((a0 -> a0) ->... 04:00:58 yes 04:01:06 did you know there's no computable set of axioms in first-order logic that uniquely identifies what will make tswett shut up about there being no computable set of axioms in first-order logic that can uniquely define the natural numbers 04:01:27 shachaf: sorry, I was away for a bit... also my local time should really be PDT but I kind of forgot how to set it on this linux box 04:02:55 Fiora: ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/[something] /etc/localtime usually 04:03:20 might also be able to do "timedatectl list-timezones" then "timedatectl set-timezone " 04:03:49 though daylight savings time should be handled automatically if you have stuff set up properly 04:04:11 ln: creating symbolic link `/etc/localtime': File exists 04:04:15 should I remove it? 04:04:24 depends, what does ls -l /etc/localtime give 04:04:36 ummm 04:04:38 $ ls -l /etc/localtime 04:04:38 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 118 Jul 27 16:39 /etc/localtime 04:04:42 huh 04:04:49 then 04:04:50 yes 04:04:55 since that should be a symlink :P 04:05:09 I must have botched it at some point <_> 04:05:24 ln -sf /usr/share/America/Los_Angeles /etc/localtime ;# no? 04:05:41 yay it worked 04:05:45 20:05 < Fiora> yay it worked 04:06:06 pikhq_: i doubt it is /usr/share/America 04:06:17 but yes [something] = America/Los_Angeles in my line I think 04:06:26 Yup, it was that 04:06:27 also you might have to reboot for this to work or at least restart programs you care about 04:06:36 IRSSI seems to have taken instantly! 04:07:08 huray 04:07:24 this calls for celebration. should welcome some pepole 04:07:28 pepole 04:07:58 Peepol 04:08:08 on debian: dpkg-reconfigure tzdata 04:08:27 I'm using an amazon micro instance so I'm stuck with yum 04:08:33 hm 04:08:36 fedora? ew 04:08:42 but it worked so I'm not going to fuss with it anymore 04:08:52 i am irssi'ing from an ubuntu server ec2 micro instance right now 04:09:00 i wonder why you got stuck with fedora 04:09:27 the free tier on amazon only let you use their install I think? 04:09:32 at least it was when I set this thing up 04:09:37 but I might be wrong 04:09:41 do EC2 instances cost reasonable amounts of money yet 04:09:46 i think that has changed 04:09:51 elliott: my micro instance is free for a year :D 04:09:54 but in general 'no' 04:10:03 i mean it is reasonable if you actually need fancy dynamic scaling 04:10:05 I just use my free micro as an IRC bouncer thing for my irssi 04:10:07 i think it's a reasonable fee for that 04:10:24 most of their users are not that, they're just startups with too much money who don't think of traditional dedicated hosting 04:10:27 * kmc guilty 04:10:48 i run irssi on ec2 and connect to it with mosh 04:10:50 it's pretty sweet 04:11:13 mosh? 04:11:19 http://mosh.mit.edu/ 04:11:25 ooooh 04:11:35 is there a windows client? I use putty right now 04:11:35 kmc: how much are the mosh people paying you 04:11:40 elliott: nothing 04:11:47 i have done some development for mosh though 04:11:48 kmc: you should get a raise!! 04:11:52 it's just an open source project at mit 04:11:53 i know rite 04:11:59 Fiora: there is an experimental cygwin port 04:11:59 i know what mosh is kmc 04:12:33 oh wow, they actually have it inside the cygwin packagemanager 04:12:56 cygwin is not the most elegant solution here but nobody has really come forward to do the work for a native windows port 04:13:01 oh, now it's deciding it has to upgrade my entire cygwin installation 04:13:08 probably good to do that anyways. 04:13:11 elliott: XD 04:13:15 heh 04:13:29 um, I'm guessing I'd have to install a server on my amazon ec2 instance? 04:13:54 yeah it's in fedora 04:13:58 you just install the mosh package on the server 04:14:03 >No package mosh available. 04:14:04 eep 04:14:07 oh, might be too old 04:14:25 at least it's fairly easy to compile mosh yourself 04:14:29 since you don't need to set up a daemon or anything 04:14:34 yeah the dependencies should be in fedora 04:15:09 hey cool netbsd is on there now 04:15:37 mosh toaster 04:15:40 yes 04:16:18 -!- ogrom has joined. 04:16:23 moaster 04:16:40 oh no it doesn't have protobuf either :< 04:17:03 agh wildly following dependency chains manually 04:17:11 that's odd 04:17:38 configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check 04:17:41 ahhhhhh 04:18:07 nice 04:18:12 do you not have a compiler toolchain installed or something 04:18:19 .... oh. I had gcc but not g++ 04:18:24 and nothing had needed g++ yet so I didn't notice 04:18:36 and the configure script somehow got past that check without noticing it was missing I think <_< 04:18:41 nice error for it 04:19:02 kmc: nice rant on the mosh issue tracker "I tried using Mosh for the connection persistence, and nothing I read prior to using it gave me a clear indication that it was anything but an ordinary shell with an improved transport. When Mosh discarded some important output I had no idea what was going on, and I wasted a few days (calendar time, several hours actual troubleshooting time) looking at everything else because it didn't occur to me that a 04:19:02 tool for persistent connections and better latency would also throw away my data. After that, I can't trust you, not because the way Mosh works is unreasonable, but because the way it is described fails to convey that you can't count on receiving the complete output of any command." 04:19:06 yuuuup that was it 04:19:09 (they are complaining because mosh doesn't have scrollback) 04:19:30 okay now to compile on a 1-core 1ghz virtual server thing -_- 04:19:49 Important output 04:19:53 over remote shell 04:19:57 -!- Jafet1 has changed nick to Jafet. 04:20:10 Fiora: hey i'm using a 1.33 ghz laptop thing 04:20:10 In scrollback. 04:20:11 "it works" 04:20:15 "sort of" 04:20:33 what he said 04:20:36 i think it would honestly be faster to compile some things by scping them over to my server 04:20:37 I'm spoiled with my laptop okay >_> 04:20:37 compiling them there 04:20:40 and then downloading the binaries 04:20:46 There is memory that's faster than that CPU 04:20:56 Yeah, I had that experience once when I had to play with an, um... I think it was a 600mhz arm 04:21:00 Jafet: Doubtful. 04:21:02 yeah i saw that 04:21:18 Jafet: The memory bus speed might be 1.33GHz, but the RAM's internal clock is at 200MHz. 04:21:25 As has been the norm for a decade now. 04:22:32 it just feels weird to like, compile on something 20 times slower than my computer 04:23:21 Try using qemu sometime. 04:24:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:24:54 Fiora: PDT? 04:24:58 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 04:25:07 I didn't think they used that anywhere, this time of year. 04:25:15 shachaf: America/Los_Angeles . :) 04:25:30 zoneinfo time zone naming is so much better. 04:25:30 okay PST I guess ^^;; 04:25:32 I always forget which is which 04:25:33 PST! 04:25:36 That's the time zone to be in! 04:25:38 @localtime 04:25:42 Local time for shachaf is Mon Nov 19 20:25:39 2012 04:25:45 @localtime 04:25:51 Local time for Fiora is Mon Nov 19 20:25:46 2012 04:25:57 Daylight time sucks. 04:26:00 does it just use dcc, or what 04:26:02 Fiora: Hmm, looks like you're 7 seconds ahead of me. 04:26:08 the message came later 04:26:09 * pikhq_ lives basically on the MST meridian! 04:26:11 @localtime 04:26:16 Local time for pikhq_ is Mon Nov 19 21:26:12 2012 04:26:27 I think the 7 seconds is just the gap between them...? 04:26:30 i don't really like zoneinfo naming 04:26:34 singles out single areas weirdly 04:26:35 i believe that is The Joke, fiora. 04:26:42 .... oh <_> sorry 04:26:52 elliott: It's saner than any other timezone naming scheme I've seen though. 04:26:54 have you noticed your eyes are pointing away from each other 04:27:06 pikhq_: well UTC+n and UTC-n are pretty good 04:27:08 Other than, of course, constant offsets from UTC, but that requires saner *time zones* in the first place. 04:27:12 Bike: Are you also in PST? 04:27:17 UTC+0(1) 04:27:22 San Francisco is The Place To Be, as you know. 04:27:35 elliott: Doesn't tell enough *at all*. 04:27:49 shachaf: rather far from LA, but yes 04:27:55 elliott: hi should foo :: Fol.Foldable f => f a -> [a]; foo = ($ []) . appEndo . Fol.foldMap (\x -> Endo (x:)) be a function 04:28:00 monqy: ☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝ 04:28:07 hi 04:28:09 hi 04:28:22 Bike: I was in LA once! 04:28:26 Assuming you mean Los Angeles. 04:28:27 what's appEndo? applicative endomorphism 04:28:28 elliott: To give you an idea: the state of Indiana has *11* different zoneinfo entries. 04:28:30 Not Louisiana. 04:28:32 Or Los Alamos. 04:28:33 yeah but indiana doesn't exist 04:28:39 shachaf i need some "lens help" 04:28:41 Or Laos? 04:28:49 Bike: newtype Endo a = Endo { appEndo :: a -> a } 04:28:50 monqy: uh oh 04:28:52 im sory i cant go through with this joke 04:28:55 i.e. appEndo :: Endo a -> (a -> a) 04:28:59 I wonder if laos has ever been called LA in the history of the universe 04:28:59 elliott can you finish it 04:29:02 monqy: no 04:29:03 monqy: do it 04:29:03 deliver the punchline 04:29:06 :( 04:29:07 you have to 04:29:09 its your duty 04:29:22 monqy: do it 04:29:22 Bike: well laos is .la isn't it 04:29:25 and that tld is used for los angeles! 04:29:27 stuff 04:29:29 (wrongly) 04:29:39 Fiora: help what are you doing in laos 04:29:51 i m sory i cant 04:29:54 I'm south of LA, not in laos 04:29:55 the delivery is wack 04:29:55 monqy: i believe in you 04:30:02 I was south of LA! 04:30:05 I kind of instintively hate cctlds though, so I refuse to acknowledge their existence, sorry about that 04:30:06 I went to San Diego. 04:30:28 i think i've been in LA a couple times, roasting on the asphalt gridlock probably 04:30:30 i don't like cctlds much 04:30:31 I don't like daylight saving time. Also, the time zones is not designed best but I don't know what is best. One way is using precise time zones using same hours/minutes/second as the angle. 04:30:54 zzo38 has a plan to redesign time zones? 04:30:55 monqy: you can do it 04:31:01 elliott: "took me by surprise" 04:31:14 (When the (sidereal) hour is angle, 1 hour = 15 degrees, which is used to measure right ascensions and hour angles.) 04:31:22 elliott: but how!!! 04:31:25 monqy: do it 04:31:26 However, solar time is not exactly like UTC it is only by average. 04:31:30 monqy: use "your creativity" 04:31:31 shachaf: can you do it for me 04:31:46 no monqy 04:31:54 there comes a time in every monqys life 04:32:01 when that monqy must finish their own jokes 04:32:21 monqy: for once in my life i'm gonna have to agree with shachaf 04:32:31 shachaf: im sorry its up to you now. search for "the joke" on the Lens documentation at http://tedlab.mit.edu/~dr/Lens/ using the Lens documention's Search It feature 04:32:42 elliott: im sorry 04:32:49 Actually I don't have plan to redesign time zones. I just have some ideas having to do with time zones. 04:32:57 monqy: help whats a search.php 04:33:11 shachaf: surprise you got joked 04:33:23 imo look at search.php's contents 04:33:28 monqy: that was a pretty bad delivery monqy 04:33:31 "it includes the shell command executed to do the search" 04:33:33 you screwed up your one chance to make that joke 04:33:44 phphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphphp 04:33:44 elliott: i told you i couldnt do it!!!! 04:33:50 monqy: you didn't even include the fact that you are personally using lens currently!! 04:33:57 im sorry monqy its just not good enough 04:33:57 leave 04:33:59 shachaf: the joke is im using this thing 04:34:00 it... downloads the php 04:34:02 leave 04:34:03 is this real 04:34:09 ρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρηρη 04:34:29 monqy: its not optional. this is your penance 04:34:41 may i asked to be kicked 04:34:44 it's what shachaf would do 04:34:47 and you agree with shachaf right 04:35:30 kmc: RHR? 04:35:44 monqy: no 04:35:50 monqy: i dont want to get kicked!! 04:35:55 elliott: you disagree with shachaf right 04:35:56 dont "spread rumours" monqy 04:36:37 elliott: help 04:36:44 elliott: "i really cant figure out this lens issue" 04:37:02 elliott: ooh ooh can i make the joke now 04:37:04 elliott: "maybe its because i spend all my time complaining about it instead of thinking about it" 04:37:24 search the lens document for "the issue". i am using this software. 04:37:29 elliott: did i do it good 04:37:32 monqy: no sorry 04:37:34 please 04:37:38 leave before you embarrass yourself further 04:37:39 at least for a minute 04:37:42 everybody is crying 04:37:43 i refuse 04:37:44 monqy: dont leave 04:37:50 now im conflicted 04:37:50 monqy: we all love you monqy 04:37:56 monqy 04:37:57 ♥ monqy 04:38:01 ♥onqy 04:38:02 this wont be tolerated 04:38:12 make me not tolerate it!!!! 04:38:15 ok 04:38:16 im doing it 04:38:22 im focusing my hatred 04:38:31 copumpkin: "should i read that book" 04:38:42 ? 04:38:49 _Concrete Mathematics_ 04:39:11 I heard it's good. 04:39:20 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 04:39:31 oh 04:39:34 yeah! 04:40:00 Hawaii did experiment with DST for three weeks between April 30, 1933 and May 21, 1933; there is no known official record as to why it was implemented or discontinued.[18][unreliable source?] Hawaii has never observed daylight saving time under the Uniform Time Act, having opted out of the Act's provisions in 1967.[19] 04:40:03 @tell monqy you can come back now 04:40:03 Consider it noted. 04:40:11 copumpkin: You read it? 04:40:20 yep 04:41:37 um, kmc, I installed protobuf from source (just configure and sudo make install...?) but mosh says it can't find it 04:41:49 "package protobuf was not found in the pkg-config search path" 04:43:19 Fiora: What distribution-thing are you using? 04:43:28 * shachaf recommends strace 04:43:33 it's the amazon ec2 fedora thing 04:43:53 * shachaf randomly wonders whether `ldconfig` will fix it. 04:44:02 Maybe it's an issue of paths and /usr/local/? 04:44:10 Why not install protobuf from a package? 04:44:19 because the system doesn't seem to have it as a package :< 04:44:19 RHR Hypertext... Rearranger? 04:45:41 I guess I can try rebuilding it and stuffing it in /usr... 04:46:05 No, don't do that! 04:46:12 * shachaf doesn't know how pkg-config finds things. 04:46:21 I have no idea either >_< 04:46:24 it uses uhhh 04:46:27 PKG_CONFIG_PATH or something 04:46:30 @google fedora protobuf 04:46:32 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/acls/name/protobuf 04:46:36 Does that not exist? 04:46:43 apparently it is PKG_CONFIG_PATH 04:47:00 sudo yum install protobuf 04:47:00 Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, priorities, security, update-motd, upgrade-helper 04:47:03 also did i actually just get monqy to leave 04:47:04 Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * amzn-main: packages.us-east-1.amazonaws.com 04:47:06 i didn't want to do that!! 04:47:07 * amzn-updates: packages.us-east-1.amazonaws.com 04:47:10 Setting up Install Process 04:47:12 No package protobuf available. 04:47:12 elliott: "ok but what if that variable is unset" 04:47:16 Fiora: Did you search? 04:47:24 Maybe it's protobuf-devel or something. 04:47:29 libprotobuff 04:47:31 s/.$// 04:47:36 protoc 04:47:36 search finds no matches 04:47:43 protobuf-compiler 04:47:45 Oh. 04:47:57 sorry... bleh I will just keep using putty I guess, this is a hassle 04:48:07 Fiora: Maybe #mosh would know. 04:48:15 well man pkg-config documents what it does when the path isn't empty 04:48:18 er 04:48:19 is empty 04:48:53 * Fiora goes back to playing civ and reading wikipedia articles on nuclear isomers 04:50:53 Fiora: You should learn about lenses instead! 04:51:07 "lenses: the nuclear isomers of the 21st century??" 04:51:08 Oh, I forgot to list my list 04:51:25 elliott, monqy isn't here, coppro except I think you're not on the list. List. 04:51:30 maybe metameterial lenses? those sound kind of cool I think 04:51:45 Sgeo: monqy explicitly told you to add Fiora to the list!! 04:51:48 they make lenses out of metamaterials now, huh 04:52:00 Fiora, do you want to be on the list? 04:52:01 Sgeo: Fiora does not wish to be on the list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 04:52:06 what is "the list"? >_< 04:52:11 everyone keeps talking about it but I don't know what it is 04:52:20 Someone should explain 04:52:36 Fiora: You wan't to be on the list. 04:52:39 no i think it is better that way 04:52:43 (That's a contraction for "want not".) 04:52:51 this channel is confusing ;-; 04:53:13 they all are 04:53:15 I'm going to break down in 2 minutes and explain it privately 04:53:23 Sgeo: Wait, what *is* the list? 04:53:31 no 04:53:37 nobody needs explanations 04:53:37 Is it just Homestuck updates or what? 04:53:40 Just noticed Fiora with the explanation 04:53:45 oh no!!! 04:53:46 we're all going to die 04:53:49 Sgeo: help i never got an explanation 04:53:50 brimstone rains from the sky 04:53:51 what is it?? 04:53:57 the truth of The List comes to torture us 04:54:02 heavens fall 04:54:08 nations collapse 04:54:09 Sgeo: ohhh!! put me on the list then 04:54:13 that sounds super useful 04:54:18 all die in an endless fire of suffering 04:54:25 i hope you're happy sgeo 04:54:26 i hope you're happy 04:54:38 perhaps you could make a list of ways the truth of The List will come to torture us, elliott. 04:54:58 It's funnier to leave shachaf out of the loop. Although cruel. But funny. 04:54:59 that was a list Bike 04:55:02 aren't you happy 04:55:07 is my List not good enough 04:55:15 wait is it a list or a List 04:55:25 does it implement the List interface? 04:55:26 what's the difference 04:55:38 i dunno, but there is a difference, so it's probably important 04:55:44 Fiora: help are you java :'( 04:55:52 um, I know a little java but I don't use it much 04:56:03 you should use Real Languages 04:56:10 like m68k assembly 04:56:15 um..... do C and x86 assembly count? 04:56:22 sorry :'( 04:56:23 the only Real Language is TECO 04:56:31 Fiora: or you can use esolangs 04:56:31 you're not nearly swaggerly enough to be a Real Programmer, fiora. sorry. 04:56:33 like C++ 04:56:41 The only real language is @ 04:56:44 I ama fake programmer then 04:56:48 @ isn't real, Sgeo 04:56:54 @ is a joke 04:57:00 you're a joke 04:57:03 complex numbers joke here 04:57:03 the list is a joke 04:57:05 your nick is a joke 04:57:07 elliott, it is if I rotate it 90 degrees! 04:57:09 fuck you 04:57:10 Dammit Bike 04:57:13 * Fiora scribbles assembly opcodes on Bike's sleeve 04:57:21 that's a bad place to put opcodes 04:57:24 imo 04:57:33 Fiora: lets have a low level programming contest 04:57:38 Fiora: how many bytes do you know 04:57:41 i know over 300 04:57:49 how big are these bytes 04:57:52 8 bits 04:57:57 hm 04:57:59 " octets hth" 04:58:02 What a boring answer. 04:58:06 no i refuse to say it 04:58:16 `addquote octets hth 04:58:19 867) octets hth 04:58:35 0-bit bytes are the best bytes. 04:58:40 `delquote 867 04:58:42 going to cry a bit 04:58:43 ​*poof* octets hth 04:58:44 `addquote `delquote 867 04:58:47 868) `delquote 867 04:58:51 oops 04:58:54 "race condition??" 04:59:05 `quote 867 04:59:08 No output. 04:59:12 `quote 868 04:59:15 No output. 04:59:16 `addquote `delquote 869 04:59:17 `quote 866 04:59:20 867) `delquote 869 04:59:23 ... 04:59:23 `deelquote 867 04:59:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: deelquote: not found 04:59:30 this is dumb stop it 04:59:31 `quote 1 04:59:34 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. 04:59:39 866) unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway 04:59:47 `delquote 867 04:59:51 ​*poof* `delquote 869 04:59:59 Fiora: "wait one moment did i know you from another channel once" 05:00:05 I had no idea a quotation system could be this confusing. 05:00:08 `addquote `addquote `addquote 867 05:00:10 ??? 05:00:12 867) `addquote `addquote 867 05:00:13 `delquote 867 05:00:16 good job, hackego engineering. good job 05:00:17 ​*poof* `addquote `addquote 867 05:00:20 Fiora: "are you from new zealand" 05:00:29 `addquote `delquote 867 05:00:32 867) `delquote 867 05:00:36 yay 05:00:40 um, no, I am from southern california 05:00:46 Oh. 05:00:57 I once knew someone in another channel whose nick started with F who lived in southern California. 05:01:01 Sgeo: can you stop 05:01:02 `delquote 867 05:01:06 ​*poof* `delquote 867 05:01:06 But moved there from New Zealand or something? 05:01:20 I was born here... 05:01:27 I was born in Asia! 05:01:38 `add​quote Sgeo: can you stop 05:01:42 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: add​quote: not found 05:01:47 Sgeo: Stop it. It's annoying. 05:01:54 But now I live in southern northern California! 05:02:23 Sgeo: is the point just to annoy me or whatever 05:02:26 :( sorry 05:02:27 because shachaf already does that a lot better 05:02:31 But that was a fake addquote 05:02:40 I didn't think a fake addquote would be annoying 05:02:46 -!- Jafet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:02:59 elliott: Hey, I thought I stopped the annoying thing! 05:03:08 -!- Jafet has joined. 05:03:44 the real question: what is annoying 05:03:47 @ ← snail 05:03:58 @ is an anaconda that curled itself up 05:04:24 Is it related to python or ASP? 05:04:59 @ isn't related to life 05:06:14 kmc: I don't have any backups. 05:06:19 beyond 1984, beyond 2001, beyond love, beyond death: @ 05:06:21 Should I get an external hard drive and back up to it? 05:06:46 you should get an internal soft ride or front down from it 05:06:59 that said, yes 05:07:05 kmc: You mean give? 05:07:21 @ would make a pretty good novel IMO 05:07:21 yeah 05:07:27 Should I get an external hard drive or an internal hard drive + a box to put a hard drive in? 05:08:25 don't have a strong opinion 05:08:26 Hmm, prices have gone down to pre-flood levels. 05:08:30 i usually do the latter 05:08:40 but that's more because i have one or the other part lying around already 05:09:39 Maybe I should use my $50 Tarsnap credit. 05:15:16 "Maybe that clown could have helped you understand what you're supposed to do in this empty wasteland, but no, you had better ideas. And all of them were bullets." caliborning 05:16:31 Keep reading 05:17:13 I think homestuck is going to collapse from the weight of its own meta 05:35:42 http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/00112432/ 05:36:40 kmc: what 05:38:13 kmc: http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/10193197/ 05:40:27 What's so interesting about the pasta? 05:40:57 it is elk-shaped, to remind you of home. 05:41:17 * Sgeo is currently eating pasta 05:41:20 With ketchup 05:41:33 Gregor: haha 05:41:37 Sgeo: gross 05:41:56 Gregor: it suggests i buy it with a "KOLON floor protector" 05:42:15 There is no parmesan cheese. I require parmesan cheese. In the absense of parmesan cheese I use ketchup 05:42:22 05:42:26 that is gross and terrible and bad and you should feel bad 05:43:01 .......... 05:43:04 I actually tend to eat more when eating it with ketchup 05:43:13 “In the absense of parmesan cheese I use ketchup” 05:43:19 I… 05:43:23 yeah how does that even make sense 05:43:25 But mixing ketchup and parmesan cheese is gross, I've tried it. 05:43:29 is ketchup a cheese now 05:43:44 Bike, it's a foodstuff that adds some calories and nutrients. 05:43:48 Gregor: Trust me, that's not just your fnarf. 05:43:56 And makes it taste better. 05:43:57 It tastes wrong too. 05:44:03 I don't have any parmesan cheese, so in the absence of parmesan cheese I dump chocolate on it 05:44:25 What's so bad about pasta+ketchup? 05:44:57 as of vatican ii it's a valid basis for excommunication, for one 05:45:34 as was set forth in the famous papal bull "De ketchup nongustabilis" 05:47:02 Sgeo: That seems like the kind of thing people would eat in the great depression. 05:47:10 some heretic sects were using ketchup and pasta instead of wine and bread for the sacrament of the eucharist 05:48:08 some friends of mine had a bet to see who could last the longest eating only free condiments from the uni dining hall 05:48:30 what's a condiment 05:48:51 "things like ketchup?" 05:49:11 yeah 05:49:23 I hope Distance gets enough votes in Greenlight. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=103111305 05:49:27 That sounds disgusting. 05:49:41 I think I like ketchup+pasta more than parmesan cheese+pasta, but parmesan cheese is probably healthier 05:54:14 Normal people eat pasta + tomato sauce, right? What's the difference between tomato sauce and ketchup? 05:54:52 Ketchup is spiced much differently, cooked to a different consistency, much more vinegary, and has lots of sugar. 05:55:52 it's weird that i didn't notice how sweet ketchup is until someone pointed it out to me 05:55:55 but damn 05:56:12 it's vinegar syrup with a slight tomato theme 05:56:29 It's a sweet and sour sauce. 05:56:43 hm, i hadn't thought of that, but yes 05:56:44 So that's good. I don't particularly like tomatos, except as part of pizza. 05:57:07 Sgeo: seriously though, if you like it, eat it, don't let us tell you that it's gross even though it is 05:57:18 taste is so arbitrary 05:57:26 (it is still really gross though) 05:57:47 When I get more parmesan cheese I'll start using that again 05:58:01 Although parmesan cheese is really only really really good with shell-shaped pasta 05:58:12 why is that 05:58:14 disagree 05:58:18 (There's a nostalgia factor at work here) 05:58:20 oh 05:58:21 right 05:58:33 kmc: you know what else is sweet?! 05:58:37 hint: balsamic vinegar 05:58:46 (with strawberries) 05:58:48 (but also without) 05:58:53 In.. pre-k? Kindergarten? We had a bunch of foods with some themes and one of them was "sand and shells" 05:58:53 (the point is, balsamic vinegar) 05:58:58 @quote q 05:58:58 edwardk says: is there a haskell client for the quantum random bit generator service? i was joking that i tend to flip coins as to which project i work on that way at least in 05:58:58 some universe there is probably a me working on the more interesting one, but it strikes me that it would be nicer to actually have that coin flip hinge on a simpler quantum event 05:59:04 Later on, I had my mom make some for me, and I liked it 05:59:14 is that thing still up? 05:59:17 So, that's kind of how pasta+parmesan cheese became a staple food for me 05:59:35 http://www.fourmilab.ch/hotbits/ apparently 06:00:20 i wonder how many angry emails about what "random" _really_ means they get. 06:03:48 I prefer pasta with both tomato sauce and parmesan cheese. 06:13:30 I finish more of my pasta when I put ketchup on it 06:13:40 Don't know if that really means I prefer ketchup+pasta or not 06:14:17 I don't know. 06:17:27 hey kmc should i go to sleep 06:17:55 kmc says: no elliott dont do it 06:18:02 thats not kmc 06:18:14 kmc says: im kmc 06:18:59 no 06:20:38 Sleep is as optional as food. 06:20:51 (For some reason, you saying "Food is not optional" is stuck in my mind) 06:21:07 flip a coin 06:21:24 @dice 1d2 06:21:24 1d2 => 2 06:21:31 elliott: which one was 2 again 06:21:40 now we have to flip a coin for which one 2 meant 06:21:45 @dice 1d0 06:21:45 1d0 => 1 06:22:07 stop it Sgeo 06:22:47 I'm not drunk, I don't know why I've been acting weird 06:25:28 @dice 139d384 06:25:28 139d384 => 30003 06:26:35 I have played Dungeons&Dragons game today. I am recording it at this time. 06:28:04 thanks 06:30:04 Are you weird in general? 06:39:02 thanks 06:39:23 Thanks for what? 06:40:15 that's the question 06:43:46 Some audio chips interleave the channel output instead of mixed. There are also some with nonlinear mixing. Such thing may be use in musics made with Csound and so on for special effects? 07:04:04 Another special effect I may want to use is posterize, and perhaps, solarize. These thing could be done probably with UDO or with plugins. 07:05:13 Could be any musics with Proce esolang? 07:24:03 I'm wearing the same shirt ANdy is. I feel 300 times more awesome now. 07:24:09 er 07:24:19 (that was an accidental middle-click) 07:24:57 FireFly: hi 07:25:08 Hello 07:25:24 `quote FireFly 07:25:28 17) Meh ._. \ 62) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### Meh * FireFly dies 07:25:43 Wait, 17? 62? 07:25:44 Meh, boring quotes 07:25:49 I've no clue 07:25:52 FireFly: How long have you been around here? 07:26:20 I don't remember, but not *that* long, I don't think 07:26:23 ages 07:27:24 My first edit on the wiki was 19 dec 2008 07:27:34 help whats a 2008 07:27:39 was i even laive?? 07:28:37 [2009-01-10 23:41:13] ... FireFly [n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se] has joined #esoteric 07:28:45 (Though my logs do have gaps.) 07:29:19 when was my first join 07:29:25 was it: 2012 07:29:29 nov 07:29:30 18 07:29:32 That's hardly long compared to the age of the channel though 07:29:48 hardly long compared to the age of the UNIVERSE!!!!!! 07:29:56 That's also true 07:29:57 elliott: "oops i just got FireFly" 07:30:27 [2008-06-21 23:41:06] ... shachaf [n=shachaf@66.17.178.32] has joined #esoteric 07:30:41 whoa dude really 07:30:52 FireFly: HOW'S THAT, huh 07:31:36 Then you did not say anything and disappeared at some point during June 2008, since there are no more mentions pre-2011-01-04. 07:32:45 Really? 07:35:06 That's what my logs look like, at least. 07:35:14 Or, wait, I had a | head in there. 07:35:38 Well, that explains why it ended so abruptly. 07:36:10 did shachaf say things in 2008 07:36:10 Even without the | head I don't see any actual comments. 07:36:16 [2008-06-27 20:03:07] < tusho> AAA_AAA ais523 AnMaster atsampson augur bsmntbombdood cctoide cherez clog Corun Deewiant Dewi fizzie ihope Ilari jamesstanley Judofyr lament lifthras1ir mtve oklopol Polar puzzlet RodgerTheGreat sebbu sekhmet Sgeo shachaf SimonRC Slereah_ timotiis tusho 07:36:22 [2008-09-04 09:19:48] ... shachaf [n=shachaf@66.17.178.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:36:25 That's about it. 07:36:29 help 07:36:30 There are several other joins and parts and netsplits. 07:36:34 those are secret ip addresses 07:36:54 Your computer is broadcasting an IP address! 07:37:06 lern2dhcp 07:41:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FKGWFoIjvw 07:42:08 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 08:07:49 -!- nooga has joined. 08:09:34 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:09:44 I managed to scry the king now I know his favorite color! 08:10:50 zzo38: is it gray 08:10:52 or grey 08:10:57 "this is important" 08:11:44 No. I wrote it in "level20.tex" file recording this Dungeons&Dragons game, and I found out, it is purple. 08:12:00 Not because the king said so, but because the royal wizard said so. 08:12:14 "256 shades of gray", a book about the encoding of grayscale JPEG images. 08:12:36 zzo38: are you the royal wizard 08:12:38 In order to confirm, if it is who it says it is, when I used a psychic communication link, but he doesn't know me so we have to ask wizard in that way. 08:12:43 shachaf: No. 08:14:56 -!- monqy has joined. 08:15:15 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:16:12 monqy: welqome baq 08:16:20 `welcome monqy 08:16:25 hey 08:16:32 monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:17:05 shachaf: You see in the recording story file, who it is! Even I don't know their name, though. 08:17:52 FireFly: I bet you feel like figuring out taking for me. 08:18:26 taking? 08:18:26 What does the #esoteric "welcome bag" contain? 08:19:01 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:20:43 brainfuck derivatives 08:21:20 my welcome bag was being asked what my purpose here was......................................this was when i first(second?(third?)) joined 08:21:33 @ty taking 08:21:34 Applicative f => Int -> SimpleLensLike (Control.Lens.Internal.Indexing f) s a -> SimpleLensLike f s a 08:21:49 I should read up on these fancy lens things some day 08:21:59 Yes, FireFly. 08:22:01 You should. 08:22:05 Fiora: Do you use Haskell? 08:22:12 ...but not now 08:22:14 Your `welcome home`:::: 08:22:17 * FireFly pays attention to the lecture instead 08:22:17 fix taking 08:22:22 @localtime FireFly 08:22:22 Local time for FireFly is Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:22:22 +0100 08:23:15 shachaf: one of my programming classes in college used it and I wrote some things in it (like a simple compiler and some stuff?) but I'm really not that good at it 08:23:21 `welcome monqy 08:23:26 monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:23:27 monqy: just in case you didn't feel welcome after ~2 yeras. 08:23:29 *years 08:23:40 elliott: btw i've never been `welcomed 08:23:45 imo elliott should `welcome me 08:23:57 no i think the current state of shachaf never having been `welcomed is perfect 08:24:10 how mean 08:24:15 all in favour say `eye` 08:24:42 monqy: should elliott welcome me 08:25:05 do you really need welcoming 08:25:24 alt. do you really need welcoming 08:25:30 alt. do you really need welcoming 08:25:44 monqy: yes to the first and third one 08:25:49 not sure about the second 08:26:06 there are 2 more but "i'm sure you can figure them out" 08:26:35 monqy: you forgot one 08:26:41 alt. do you really need welcoming 08:26:46 -!- intok has joined. 08:27:01 monqy: you forgot some more 08:27:10 like do you really need welcoming 08:27:10 shachaf: I did think it was really interesting though, I loved the typing and type inference and stuff 08:27:18 alt. do you really need welcoming 08:27:23 alt. do you really need welcoming 08:27:29 "combinatorics" 08:27:34 "except not really" 08:27:39 "sort of" 08:27:41 "power set??" 08:27:47 Fiora: It's great! 08:27:54 Want a Haskell puzzle that I can't figure out? 08:27:55 it is too many and overwhelming :'( 08:27:59 Note: No one else is figuring it out either. 08:28:01 even monqy 08:28:08 monqy the super genious?? 08:28:09 -!- aloril_ has joined. 08:28:09 Fiora: dont do it 08:28:12 cant figure it out 08:28:15 shachaf is just trying to get you to do work for free 08:28:23 really I don't think I'd have any hope here, I haven't used the language in like 2 years ^^;; 08:28:26 Fiora: ill pay you in eternal gratitude 08:28:27 btw is Fiora on Sgeo's list yet 08:28:38 I think I am? 08:28:40 Fiora: You want eternal gratitude, right? 08:28:41 good good 08:28:56 (Eternal gratitude expires in 12 months unless you earn more gratitude.) 08:29:29 (earning my gratitude is easy!) 08:29:33 Fiora: "imo say yes" 08:29:57 What is Sgeo's list? 08:30:08 Fiora: did you know this channel evaluates haskell 08:30:19 monqy: sgeo explained the list to fiora. 08:30:19 > let fibs = 1 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) 08:30:21 all the mystery is gone 08:30:21 > let fibs = 1 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) in fibs 08:30:21 not an expression: `let fibs = 1 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs)' 08:30:23 [1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,1... 08:32:05 `welcome elliott 08:32:09 elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:32:10 elliott: tit for tat plz 08:32:19 no 08:32:21 tit yourself 08:32:23 tat yourself 08:32:32 plz yourself 08:33:49 shachaf: um, I think I saw people using it like that earlier 08:34:37 Fiora: um, ok 08:34:50 I don't think I can solve haskell puzzles though especially if nobody else can 08:36:40 it's not a puzzle it's just a stupid thing shachaf asks people to do and we ignore him 08:36:55 im sure it's interesting if you're into that sort of stuff but 08:37:06 i dont really feel like lenses right now. i feel like Lens 08:37:28 shachaf, does it have to be in Haskell? 08:37:31 :innocentface: 08:37:47 Sgeo: If you can manage to solve it not in Haskell, I'll be surprised. 08:37:51 It has to do with types and things. 08:39:15 but clojure is the perfect language of the month now 08:39:16 or was it tcl 08:39:42 truly a perfect langauge is like a computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers 08:39:47 it ain't exist 09:02:09 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:18:53 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:26:07 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:45:58 i have a math puzzle i can't solve 09:46:05 note: no one else is figuring it out either. 09:46:13 interested? 09:47:03 i'd be pretty surprised if you were able to solve it not with math 09:47:10 it has to do with numbers and stuff. 09:47:45 or topology and zorn's lemma and cantor-bendixon derivatives and stuff, but i hear everything is numb3rs. 09:48:45 010101101010100 09:48:49 01010110101010100100101010101010100 09:48:52 010101101010101000101010101111 09:48:56 010100010100101010101010101000101011 09:48:58 01011010001011010101 09:49:01 010101101010101010100101 09:49:06 101010100101010101010010101010111001110001010111 09:49:09 01010110101010101010 09:49:15 ^ there i got you started 10:16:39 -!- carado has joined. 10:22:17 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 10:33:02 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 10:45:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:49:02 `welcome Phantom_Hoover 10:49:05 Phantom_Hoover: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 10:49:14 thanks shachaf 10:49:29 no problem Phantom_Hoover 10:49:37 "welcome to bfderivativecentral" 10:49:43 i invented a language, does anyone want to help me imrpove it 10:50:05 does it involve bricks or brains 10:50:10 "say yes" 10:51:36 well its a programming language based on math 10:52:18 `quote 766 10:52:22 766) Sgeo: I used to have strict requirements for when I said hi but then everyone started saying hi and it all got weird 10:52:24 `quote 767 10:52:29 767) I don't know which version of Linux kernel I'm using atm Hang on I'm on Windows 10:52:29 `quote 866 10:52:33 866) unfortunately df is not yet able to simulate norway 10:52:34 `quote 867 10:52:38 No output. 10:52:43 `quote 10000 10:52:47 No output. 10:52:49 there are 2 variables, p and t 10:53:06 one of them is an impostor and you have to figure out which 10:53:17 let t=t+1 increments t, let t=t-1 decrements t 10:53:21 oklofok: I remember that movie! 10:53:36 there should be a molydeux-type twitter feed with esolang ideas. 10:53:47 let p=p+1 makes t refer to the next cell on the tape 10:53:52 likewise for - 10:54:12 qed prints the current t 10:54:27 lemma sets t to the input 10:54:29 is the question you want help with whether it should be called mathfuck or brainmath or brainmathics or fuckmathics? 10:54:34 there should be a molydeux-type twitter feed with esolang ideas. 10:54:39 Chris Presto 10:54:43 i'm not to that point yet 10:54:45 ok that's kind of lame 10:54:46 but it could work 10:55:07 now i'm struggling to work out what to call the loop instructions 10:55:17 does anyone here math 10:55:41 math has an unsolved problem whereby it is not brainfuck please make math brainfuck 10:55:49 Phantom_Hoover: are you trying to trick me 10:55:50 sigma and pi 10:55:54 into helping you 10:55:57 omg perfect 10:56:00 uh oh 10:56:02 no i dont need more help 10:56:07 oops 10:56:10 "oopse" 10:56:16 :( 10:56:23 fuck you shachaf it was my time to shine 10:56:26 i think i'll call it... 10:56:29 mathmath 10:57:05 help 10:57:07 how about "fuck math" 10:57:08 monqy: protect mee 10:57:11 s/.$// 10:57:41 shachaf: theres no going bakc 10:57:55 monqy: did you "play psychonauts" 10:58:04 i played psychonauts ages ago 10:58:12 like a year!!!! but a bit less than that 10:58:24 monqy: like 11 months 10:58:26 10 months 10:58:26 Phantom_Hoover: are programs pdfs 10:58:27 9 months 10:58:29 8 months 10:58:30 oklofok, yes 10:58:31 7 months 10:58:33 6 months 10:58:33 or latex 10:58:35 5 months 10:58:37 4 months 10:58:39 they're written in latex 10:58:40 3 months 10:58:42 2 months 10:58:42 but preferably compiled latex yeah 10:58:45 1 months 10:58:47 0 months?????? 10:59:05 shachaf: one of those 10:59:33 monqy: remember the part with the turtle 10:59:37 yeah 10:59:42 i loved that turtle 10:59:45 now, the question is can be publish a math paper that's actually a fuck your mathbrain -fuck program that prints counterexamples to all the theorems. 10:59:50 *we 11:00:44 elliott: chris 11:00:47 presto 11:00:47 is 11:00:49 what? 11:00:53 chris pressey but different 11:00:54 hth 11:00:54 i found cpresto1. 11:00:59 im interested in doing proper math in fuckbrainmath 11:01:12 muchfrainbath 11:01:21 *muckfrainbath 11:01:27 oklofok: answer to that question: no. since your theorems have counterexamples, peer review would be sure to find the errors in your proofs 11:01:30 oklofok: (hahahahahaha) 11:01:42 getting good at this joke thing 11:02:04 yeah that's a good one :d 11:02:09 elliott, oh is that because of goedels incompleteness theorems 11:02:44 i read geodel esher bahc, it was very inspiring 11:02:46 no it's because of the corollary that humans are superturing because they can do metamath so they can check every proof. 11:03:09 superturing hahaha 11:03:18 like superman for math 11:03:28 superturing to the rescue 11:03:29 (If only he had a theme tune..._ 11:04:37 so will you write some theorems in brathmuck 11:05:03 i was thinking, it would be cool if someone used it to prove fermats' last theorem? 11:05:13 yes 11:05:25 i love that theorem!!!!! 11:05:30 "second favorite theorem" 11:05:52 omg is your favourite gedoels incompleteness theorem?? 11:05:56 because mine is! 11:06:13 my favorite theorem is perhaps that a countable 2d sft contains a strictly singly periodic point 11:06:16 Phantom_Hoover: no 11:06:19 my favorite theorem is that 11:06:53 there is no computable set of axioms in first-order logic that uniquely defines the natural numbers 11:06:59 "pretty cool huh" 11:07:04 oh 11:07:08 (and it's not even my theorem) 11:07:15 can you prove that in muckbraiath 11:07:18 (it's awesome) 11:07:25 my favorite theorem is the one where There is no set whose cardinality is strictly between that of the integers and that of the real numbers. 11:08:17 ah, the continuum theorem. 11:08:17 monqy: thats not a theorem monqy!!! 11:08:29 that's a hypothesis 11:08:31 like evolution 11:08:58 you cant prove it, goedel proved that 11:09:07 sure you can 11:09:15 if you have the right axioms 11:09:15 There are theories, theorems and hypotheses; are there also hypothems? 11:09:50 shachaf, but you cant prove they're the right axioms 11:09:52 http://drops.dagstuhl.de/opus/volltexte/2008/1334/pdf/22011.BallierAlexis.Paper.1334.pdf here read it 11:10:07 Phantom_Hoover: yes i can?? 11:10:26 axiom 7: these are the right axioms 11:10:28 qed 11:10:52 plus axiom 8 that says 7 is correct, sealing the deal. 11:10:54 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 let t=t+1 11:10:58 qed 11:11:02 let t=t-1 let t=t-1 11:11:05 qed qed qed qed qed 11:11:10 lemma 11:11:12 lemma 11:11:12 qed 11:11:28 what theorem are you proving ? 11:11:29 Phantom_Hoover: "oopse i just proved fermats last conjecture" 11:11:37 oh. 11:11:45 wow 11:11:47 monqy: p. cool "dont you think" 11:11:57 yes teach me how 11:12:00 my favorite theorem is the one where There is no set whose cardinality is strictly between that of the integers and that of the real numbers. 11:12:06 thats a ba dtheorem monqy ! 11:12:07 thats a lot better than that guy from britain managed 11:12:23 elliott: how can it be bad if it's my favorite 11:12:31 i tried reading that one and it was all nonsense 11:14:32 03:14 luite: the GHC programmers are very bad people :-( 11:14:43 elliott: "remember that time you called JaffaCake stupid to his face" 11:15:08 yeah i saw no ellipses in the figures. have a figure now and then asshole, it's common courtesy. 11:17:49 elliott: Grr, this is like doing fusion by hand. 11:17:57 elliott: Really annoying. 11:18:00 Any ideas for how it should work? 11:18:12 no 11:18:16 is this about Lens 11:19:05 monqy: no it's about lens 11:49:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 12:02:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:11:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:28:49 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:36:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:43:31 -!- carado has joined. 12:44:09 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 12:54:16 I don't get "shachaf's quotes" 12:55:44 I also notice that I'm reading lines from approx. 1½ hours ago 12:56:16 FireFly: hi 12:56:27 Why, hello there 12:58:15 FireFly: Fiora is taking your tab completion prefix. 12:58:18 fizzie: Fiora is taking your tab completion prefix. 12:58:31 "are y'all gonna stand for it" 12:58:40 "huh?" 12:58:42 soln. use last-spoke like a sane person 12:58:45 "are y'all gonna take it sitting down?" 12:58:56 Phantom_Hoover: "yes but no" 12:59:17 whoa!!! settle down with those quotes!!!! calm and cool it 12:59:46 "you might hurt somebody" 13:05:19 oh no monqy 13:05:20 monqy 13:05:24 look up 13:05:28 "look at your own words" 13:06:34 sorry all i can see is you being careless w/ quotes and maybe hurting somebody 13:06:55 it is a problem only fixable by taking good care and also a chill pill 13:10:56 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:11:08 -!- elliott has joined. 13:11:16 monqy: can i buy a chill pill 13:12:53 im no expert 13:25:10 kmc: Don't you like it when someone comes into #haskell to ask a question about using ghci with their editor and the answers they get are (a) switch to unix (b) hey guys what's the true meaning of unix (c) switch to vim or emacs if you even want to matter as a person? 13:26:28 does this happen often 13:26:31 does this happen 13:27:10 yes monqy 13:27:35 "the cruel world beyond the safe sheltered walls of #esoteric" 13:28:08 now they're talking about The True Meaning of Vim 13:28:16 if you use hjkl are you a good person? 13:28:20 this just in: no 13:28:57 It's sad when the answers the regulars give annoy me more than the annoying newcomers. 13:30:05 if I use hjkl am I a bad person ? 13:30:59 maybe 13:31:28 <> using hjkl in vim is almost as bad as using the arrow keys 13:31:35 is using the arrow keys bad 13:32:25 absolu↑ely 13:42:19 I suppose I should change my name to "XYzzie", where XY is chosen as the least likely initial IRC nickname character bigram. 13:42:52 XYzzY 13:51:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:56:15 -!- boily has joined. 14:15:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:16:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:17:16 You could also replace the z's with a letter with lower character code 14:17:22 E.g. [ 14:20:34 Z ENCODING?? 14:21:07 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 15:07:17 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 15:28:57 shachaf: :( 15:29:14 did anyone mention yet that IDEs are for JAVA DRONES? 15:30:53 "Does the GHC RTS depend on posix? Also, can I somehow tell GHC to use a different RTS, or am I going to have to write my own compiler if I write my own RTS?" 15:31:29 -_- 15:31:48 this sounds like one of those "world of pain" situations 15:31:59 also the answer to the first is nearly obvious from the fact that ghc works on windows 15:32:05 excuse me WINBLO$E 15:46:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:50:10 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:50:29 ooh https://github.com/toyvo/libpandoc 15:50:55 neat 15:50:56 spinning up a GHC RTS inside my CPython process to render some Markdown is totally reasonable right? 15:51:34 sure 15:51:50 Perhaps you could still involve .NET somehow. 15:52:26 kmc: C bindings to Haskell libraries 15:52:31 i think this is the true sign haskell has made it 15:53:05 srsly 15:53:19 2013 will be the year of haskell on the desktop 15:55:45 "The only C implementations of markdown that I know of are Discount and PEG-markdown. Discount seemed a little bit too integrated and focused on HTML output for my taste, and PEG-markdown seemed to have a lot of dependencies and stuff. So I wrote my own." 15:55:49 yeah! fuck code reuse! 16:01:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:06:08 C programmers tend to be all "ew, dependencies, I'll write my own instead" 16:06:14 yeah 16:06:24 it's a really disappointing situation 16:06:38 of course writing your own is how you show off how big your hacker penis is, and that's the best reason to use c for anything 16:09:05 i like rewriting code 16:14:48 -!- atriq has joined. 16:39:35 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:48:25 kmc: guys what does in exactly do here et add1 x = x + 1 in map add1 [1,5,7] ? and how can I create function add1 and use it right away?(would be easy if you use javascript as explation) 16:49:14 real quote? 16:49:25 yes. 16:49:48 Can confirm 16:49:52 Trudko: you probably want to read a haskell tutorial like learn you a haskell to get to grips with the basics of things like functions and map <[redacted]> elliott: I know what is map and what are functions I dont understand 1. What in is exactly doing iin aboewe example 16:50:01 well there goes my one line of effort 16:50:18 oops 16:50:20 i only redacted one of the names 16:50:24 foiled!!!! 16:50:30 womp womp 16:52:22 elliott: will you help me take over a japanese mobile phone operator so that eventually we can have goatse in the Supplementary Multilingual Plane 16:52:58 kmc: i think there is literally nothing i have ever aspired to less 16:54:21 never have so few aspired so little to so much 16:58:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:59:56 -!- augur has joined. 17:03:22 also sigh https://github.com/waylan/Python-Markdown/issues/161 17:05:43 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:08:16 -!- atriq has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 17:09:25 -!- atriq has joined. 17:18:39 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:22:50 kmc: heh, nice 17:25:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:26:14 -!- augur has joined. 17:27:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:30:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:31:05 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:32:57 -!- atriq has joined. 17:36:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:43:54 http://www.sadanduseless.com/2012/04/lavatory-self-portraits/ 17:46:06 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]). 17:47:08 -!- Frooxius has joined. 17:56:17 -!- augur has joined. 18:02:32 Trade Depots can be too close to an edge!? 18:05:04 Phantom_Hoover, PalaceCrushed now has a legendary miner and no defences 18:18:18 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:32:41 -!- ogrom has joined. 18:34:16 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:37:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:41:42 atriq, bad idea! 18:42:03 you always think "i should get around to having some defences already" and if you're lck 18:42:17 *lucky an ambush takes out several dorfs 18:49:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 19:10:56 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:13:14 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 19:17:52 -!- Vorpal has joined. 19:24:50 Hey, I missed the lesson, can anyone tell me the background to the k e^(i * theta) way of expressing a complex number? 19:25:48 probably something about euler 19:26:58 so you know about polar coordinates for the plane, right? 19:27:15 So I wrote a C program that quits with a Bus Error when given the input of -1 19:27:41 and complex numbers x + yi can be thought of as a point in the plane 19:28:34 if you convert that (x,y) to (r,θ) you can represent the number as r(cos(θ) + i sin(θ)) 19:28:59 and it so happens that cos(θ) + i sin(θ) = e^(i θ) 19:29:21 which you can demonstrate by working out the respective power series, i think 19:29:36 kmc, you've skipped over the one part I didn't know 19:30:05 which is? 19:30:22 "what are complex numbers" 19:30:26 How to get from cos theta + i sin theta to e ^ (i theta) 19:31:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_formula 19:31:21 Thanks, FireFly 19:31:49 yes you can prove it using power series 19:32:21 you write the power series for e^(iθ) and then shuffle the terms around and pull out a power series for cos(θ) plus one for i sin(θ) 19:32:24 i did mention that ;) 19:33:38 I recall I found it informative to plot z and sqrt(z), in the complex plane for some z on the edge of the unit circle 19:33:45 or z and z² for that matter 19:33:58 i like this "using calculus" proof as well 19:34:41 "using calculus", is that where you just use euler's formula? 19:34:46 heh 19:34:57 no that we call proof by induction 19:36:08 oh, "Neither of these mathematicians saw the geometrical interpretation of the formula: the view of complex numbers as points in the complex plane arose only some 50 years later (see Caspar Wessel)." 19:40:52 Thinking about it, I think I can get it from Maclaurin series 19:42:08 Although is that overkill? 19:43:12 I think that's one of the standard ways to do it 19:43:35 or the taylor series, don't remember what the difference between those are 19:43:45 Maclaurin is Taylor at 0 19:44:46 Taylor at a is f(a) + f'(a)*(x-a)/1! + f''(a)*(x-a)^2/2! ... 19:44:54 Letting a = 0 makes it simpler 19:49:49 -!- Bike has joined. 19:50:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:58:29 atriq: arent there taylor/maclaurin series that dont converge to their associated function as n->infty 19:58:47 quintopia, yes, but not for e, sin, and cos? 19:59:00 e sin and cos are holomorphic, so yeah they converge. 20:00:34 what sort of function wouldn't converge? 20:00:53 oh, something that isn't differentiable everywhere? 20:01:04 ln (1 + x) for x > 1 20:01:24 "A function that is equal to its Taylor series in an open interval (or a disc in the complex plane) is known as an analytic function." 20:01:27 well, you can also have functions that are differentiable everywhere that aren't holomorphic. 20:01:32 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/3/4/734173a08dcfe45fcff058190d4ec0a1.png Wikipedia has an example. 20:01:47 er, it's infinitely differentiable at 0, anyhow. 20:02:23 wait, so why doesn't that one work? 20:02:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-analytic_smooth_function oh, here we go. 20:02:53 because the maclaurin series of it is 0 20:03:35 ohhhh. it's because at zero the taylor series converges to zero... 20:03:42 that's tricky 20:03:54 yeah, they're usually kind of pathological. 20:07:32 atriq: polar representation of complexes is also useful for using them as rotations and stuff. 20:11:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:13:08 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:22:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:25:48 -!- sirdancealot has joined. 20:25:56 -!- augur has joined. 20:30:00 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:30:18 -!- atriq has joined. 20:39:11 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 20:48:07 oh that i had 20:48:19 the wings of a dove 20:48:30 to rest on me 20:51:53 55:6 20:52:38 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:53:28 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:04:42 -!- atriq has joined. 21:07:03 Phantom_Hoover, Palacecrushed is going very well 21:07:03 Except for the fact that the merchants are here and I haven't anything to trade 21:07:03 And the path to the trade depot is a bit odd 21:09:58 The military is equiped with iron weapons 21:10:03 (no flux yet) 21:14:09 Well, I've missed the merchants 21:14:10 Nevermind 21:18:24 i think pathological may be slightly too strong a word 21:19:37 pathologically logical paths 21:25:21 oklopol, context? 21:26:19 my saying smooth but non-analytic functions are "kind of pathological" 21:29:34 isn't an analytic function from R completely determined by its values on any open set? 21:30:50 I thought that only worked in C. 21:31:04 isn't R a subset of C, or...? 21:31:47 well if it's given by a converging series, it seems that you can determine the coefficients by taking derivatives at 0. 21:33:13 there's the issue of functions like the one Bike mentioned though, right? which are analytic but not homomorphic 21:33:23 homomorphic? 21:33:25 idgi 21:33:29 to what 21:33:40 she means holomorphic. 21:33:49 oh holo 21:33:54 i think i've heard of that 21:34:05 it's a synonym for "analytic", usually. 21:34:25 i don't get how being holomorphic has anything to do with this 21:34:27 erm, yeah 21:34:36 homomorphic was the condition for whether a taylor series works I think Bike said? 21:34:49 which I think is the same thing as "you can figure it all out from derivatives at one place" 21:35:08 anyhow the reason i think pathological is a bit of a strong word is that if an open set determines an analytic function, pretty much every smooth function you come up with will be non-analytic. 21:35:09 well, complex analytic functions are holomorphic, but real analytic functions aren't necessarily, I think. 21:35:35 unless you just directly take some function with a name. they usually have a name because they have nice series representations. 21:35:49 oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_function#Pathological_functions poincaré is more what I mean 21:36:15 that is somewhat pathological 21:36:18 so, yeah, that. most functions are non-analytic and smooth probably, but they're still subjectively weird 21:36:20 oh god that function 21:36:24 the example of an analytic non-smooth function was not. 21:36:47 well i guess that may be a bit subjective 21:36:57 i was thinking of exactly the weierstrass function for comparison btw 21:36:59 :P 21:37:04 go figure 21:37:57 also saying "most" here is a bit dangerous since often "a measure one subset of" B will be non-A where A is a subset of B, but actually it's very hard to find an element in B \ A. 21:38:14 i suppose I could come up with a more rigorous "pathological" based on only allowing compositions of standard functions or something, but that'd be pretty pointless and I'm not good enough at real analysis to know what I'm saying anyway 21:38:38 and I haven't done analysis stuff like this in... gosh too many years <_> 21:38:59 i took a few analysis courses like 4 years ago 21:40:00 "so we have these couple of functions that interested ancient mathematicians and are useful in all sortsa fields but we already know everything about them so you students can just fuck yourselves and listen." 21:40:10 :/ 21:40:16 not my thing. 21:41:45 I liked it... 21:41:53 -!- carado has joined. 21:41:54 complex analysis was fun though I think it was like 90% cauchy 21:43:01 i'm looking forward to understanding how the fuck analytic combinatorics works, since apparently you can work out combinatoric values through complex analysis 21:45:42 ooh that looks neat. 21:45:53 it does 21:46:12 unfortunately i'm pretty bad at both so combining them is hazardous for me 21:46:19 i hope to at least do some ordinary combinatorics at some point, like graphs or something 21:46:43 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: goodnight). 21:47:24 but dunno, finite things are so complicated 21:47:35 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:47:46 then again people are doing so much graph stuff it must be like ridiculously easy. 21:48:09 at least coming up with problems is easy 21:51:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:01:23 -!- monqy has joined. 22:02:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:04:56 http://timetobleed.com/6-line-eventmachine-bugfix-2x-faster-gc-1300-requestssec/ conservative gc: still a bad idea 22:07:45 -!- nooga has joined. 22:07:59 "... that Ruby thread gets an entire copy of the existing stack. Each time that thread is switched into and out of, that thread stack has to be memcpy’d into and out of place." 22:08:39 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:14:15 -!- nooga has quit (*.net *.split). 22:14:16 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 22:14:16 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (*.net *.split). 22:14:16 -!- oklofok has quit (*.net *.split). 22:14:16 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 22:14:24 -!- nooga has joined. 22:14:30 -!- oklofok has joined. 22:14:31 -!- tswett has joined. 22:14:31 -!- Bike has joined. 22:17:05 -!- Frooxius_ has joined. 22:19:15 -!- ais523_ has joined. 22:19:17 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:19:36 -!- nortti_ has joined. 22:19:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:19:44 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 22:20:23 -!- Fiora_ has joined. 22:21:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:24:34 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 22:24:34 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 22:24:34 -!- Fiora has quit (*.net *.split). 22:24:45 -!- Fiora_ has changed nick to Fiora. 22:32:37 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:41:43 -!- TodPunk has joined. 22:49:27 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:50:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 23:01:40 -!- augur has joined. 23:02:26 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 23:04:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:19:28 -!- Jafet has joined. 23:32:17 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 23:40:04 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:40:42 Fiora, monqy coppro tswett although not formally on list I think. LIST 23:42:53 hi 23:44:15 I do not take part in your list 23:44:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:52:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:55:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.