00:01:04 <oerjan> i vaguely seem to recall it uses the actual socket fingerprint for funge-98
00:02:09 <Gregor> Befunge is easily the best general-purpose programming language.
00:02:09 <oerjan> i haven't read the code myself, mind you
00:02:39 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
00:03:13 <oerjan> yeah the "KCOS" must be it
00:03:59 <elliott> GreyKnight: it handles the sockets, even
00:04:47 <GreyKnight> detroppus ton KCOS, I like this language ;-)
00:05:45 <oerjan> GreyKnight: line 105 is also pretty clear
00:06:53 <GreyKnight> line 153 there has a fnord and a big triangle :-)
00:06:58 <GreyKnight> whoever wrote that needs either a medal or to be committed
00:07:02 <FireFly> that's a 0gnirts or whatever they're called
00:07:49 <elliott> GreyKnight: ("whoever wrote that" is always fizzie)
00:09:36 <FireFly> I like the rather literal "channels" that move the IP about
00:09:40 <oerjan> GreyKnight: i think the fnord may be part of fungot's autobabbling code, it has certain very common words (actually mostly punctuation and smileys) built into the code
00:09:41 <fungot> oerjan: say a list of the commands?
00:10:00 <oerjan> interestingly, that triggers a bug in the darwin style
00:10:05 <fungot> Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy)
00:10:13 <oerjan> fungot: please demonstrate
00:10:13 <fungot> oerjan: proceeding northward,/ quantity on an equal number :) times to/ fnord
00:10:31 <fungot> FireFly: i am now going to captain fitz-roy, october, 12th and 13th 1867.
00:11:20 <FireFly> fungot: say hi to him from me
00:11:20 <fungot> FireFly: table 4.24.4. illegitimate union: 52: 0.
00:13:06 <oerjan> that ":)" should actually be "of" and "/" is probably also wrong, maybe "the"
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00:13:59 <oerjan> basically because darwin didn't actually use smileys or that other punctuation, some tables got indexed wrong
00:14:12 <oerjan> is my vague understanding
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00:18:52 <oerjan> GreyKnight: I WAS TALKING TO YOU
00:19:36 <GreyKnight> last was <GreyKnight> yeah, the triangle seems to be applying the punctuation/smilies
00:19:51 <FireFly> Don't you DARE accidentally lose connection when I'm talking to you!
00:20:06 <oerjan> <GreyKnight> fizzie wrote ALL the programs
00:21:01 <oerjan> GreyKnight: logs are in the topic :P
00:21:16 <FireFly> In a less shady URL than before
00:21:45 <GreyKnight> I was also wondering why the fnord is split into two strings
00:21:57 <FireFly> probably to allow the IP to travel between the parts
00:22:23 <oerjan> hm yes there's a tall path there
00:23:46 <FireFly> what's the definition of g?
00:24:15 <FireFly> pop x and y, then grab (x,y) in fungespace and push the value to the stack, or something?
00:25:42 <oerjan> punctuation is handled specially because it has different spacing
00:26:56 <FireFly> I don't get how something enters the triangle though
00:27:23 <oerjan> i think j is a command that skips a specific distance ahead
00:29:16 <FireFly> I like how there's just comments sprinkled around the code
00:30:03 <oerjan> :98 +`#v_ probably tests if the value is less than 17, so that the triangle is only used for values less than that
00:31:29 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Have you considered trying to match wits with a rutabaga?
00:32:08 <HackEgo> 55) <Sgeo> What else is there to vim besides editing commands?
00:32:12 <HackEgo> ? \ @ \ No \ WELCOME \ WeLcOmE \ addquote \ addquotee \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ delquotee \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping
00:32:27 <HackEgo> 27) <ais523> after all, what are DVD players for? \ 79) <ais523> so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? \ 80) <ais523> let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future \ 87) <ais523> (still, whatever possessed anyone to invent the N-Gage?) \ 88) <ais523> theory:
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00:33:08 <oerjan> i'm not sure ais523 has spent any significant time in #haskell
00:33:21 <Arc_Koen> hey oerjan can you help me simplify (a-x)(b-x)...(z-x)?
00:33:44 <FireFly> isn't that rather simplified already?
00:34:14 <HackEgo> 60) * oerjan swats FireFly since he's easier to hit -----### <FireFly> Meh * FireFly dies
00:34:27 <GreyKnight> vim is a terrible editor, it doesn't even come with its own builtin psychoanalyst!
00:35:13 <HackEgo> 88) <ais523> theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along
00:35:23 <HackEgo> Can't exec "`run": No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/@ line 2. \ `ls:
00:36:50 <oerjan> `@ FireFly echo That's not how `@ works
00:36:53 <HackEgo> FireFly: That's not how `@ works
00:38:03 <FireFly> `@ oerjan I just naively guessed based on the little I know about Lambdabot's @@
00:38:05 <HackEgo> Can't exec "I": No such file or directory at /hackenv/bin/@ line 2. \ oerjan:
00:39:27 <FireFly> I have two in front of my eyes at the moment
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00:40:52 <FireFly> I'm rather enjoying them; they simplify my life a great deal
00:41:28 <Arc_Koen> are you talking about those inside?
00:41:53 <oerjan> nah i'm sure those only complicate life
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00:43:38 <Arc_Koen> so I just started watching the walking dead and I have this weird feeling
00:44:09 <Arc_Koen> well it was only the first episode
00:44:47 <Arc_Koen> and so far it isn't full of the stereotypes you see in *every* zombie film
00:45:06 <Arc_Koen> well apart from the fact that the streets are full of zombies but that's kind of the idea
00:45:08 <Phantom_Hoover> the `word on the street' is that it fairly quickly degenerates into a cavalcade of "which character will become an asshole for the sole purpose of creating a problem for this episode?!"
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00:45:31 <Arc_Koen> well there aren't so many characters yet
00:45:59 <Phantom_Hoover> also there was something about the showrunner firing the other writers and driving the programme off a cliff at the start of the second season
00:46:22 <Arc_Koen> at the same time it has a proper dose of suspense and stuff, and at the same time it isn't really like a "horror movie"
00:47:16 <Arc_Koen> aaaanyway I'll watch a second episode before I make my opinion
00:47:43 <Phantom_Hoover> i've heard nothing but praise for the game though, fwiw
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01:07:44 <elliott> who changed youtube behind my back
01:08:15 <shachaf> elliott: They had a big discussion/vote in the comments section of every video!
01:08:19 <shachaf> MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE PARTICIPATED
01:09:09 <Phantom_Hoover> google appears to have looked at facebook's ui and said "i want some of that"
01:17:44 <kmc> apparently los angeles has this form of weather where it rains and also the framerate gets really bad
01:18:12 <shachaf> kmc: Should I get a FREE MEGABUS TICKET to Los Angeles?
01:19:47 <kmc> oh yeah megabus is running in CA again
01:20:14 <shachaf> I could also get a FREE MEGABUS TICKET NYC <-> BOS
01:20:17 <shachaf> Or apparently anywhere else.
01:20:28 <kmc> promotion code TRYMEGABUS
01:20:32 <kmc> jan 9 to feb 28
01:20:40 <elliott> kmc: can you explain this I,I thing shachaf does to me
01:20:50 <kmc> it means "i have no point, i just like saying"
01:21:00 <kmc> used to prefix a statement which is not meant to be entirely serious
01:21:02 <kmc> or it's an owl face
01:21:16 <kmc> the etymology is that phrase which has the form "i ..., i ..."
01:21:28 <kmc> i, even i, can play dead
01:21:54 <kmc> "why was h afraid of i"
01:22:06 <elliott> kmc: that is a really fucking dumb etymology
01:22:18 <kmc> a fair point
01:22:26 <kmc> but have you considered eating a dick instead
01:25:58 <shachaf> It's as much of a pun as 7 8 9
01:27:10 <oerjan> or at least a beta laugh
01:31:15 <lambdabot> oerjan says: i only do impractical things
01:31:37 <shachaf> `run while true; do quote; done | grep oerjan | head -n1
01:32:10 <HackEgo> bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or
01:32:38 <shachaf> `run while true; do bin/quote; done | grep oerjan | head -n1
01:33:11 <HackEgo> nl: quotes: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: bin/quote:
01:33:23 <HackEgo> 523) <Phantom_Hoover> I'm sacrificing the animals, then I'm going to bed.
01:33:40 <shachaf> `run for i in 1 2; do quote; done
01:33:44 <HackEgo> 145) <alise> "Europe is the national anthem of the Republic of Kosovo." <cpressey> alise: I <cpressey> I was going to say something then your last line floored me \ 410) <SgeoN1> No nasty sounds for a while now. Going to turn off and on and see if the numbers get worse.
01:34:13 <shachaf> `run for i in `seq 1 2`; do quote; done
01:34:16 <HackEgo> 6) <oerjan> what, you mean that wasn't your real name? <Warrigal> Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 687) <Gregor> elliott: Back in my day, I didn't have to walk with a cane, but I couldn't shake it at kids on my lawn either!
01:35:03 <shachaf> `run for i in `seq 1 100`; do quote; done | grep oerjan | head -n1
01:35:31 <HackEgo> 20) <oerjan> In an alternate universe, ehird has taste
01:35:57 <shachaf> `run while true; do quote; done | grep oerjan | head -n1
01:36:30 <HackEgo> bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or
01:36:39 <oerjan> `run quote oerjan | shuffle | head -n1
01:36:42 <HackEgo> bash: shuffle: command not found
01:36:48 <oerjan> `run quote oerjan | shuf | head -n1
01:36:51 <HackEgo> 702) <fizzie> oerjan: Hey, what's your country code for telephonistic dialling from the outside world? <oerjan> fizzie: +47 <fizzie> oerjan: Ooh, you're, like, right next to Sweden there. <fizzie> I... guess you are geographically, too.
01:36:57 <shachaf> Why is it giving that error?
01:37:04 <kmc> while true; do shuffle; sleep 86400; done
01:37:32 <oerjan> `run while true; do quote; done
01:37:36 <HackEgo> 304) <oklofok> destroying a local copy of the world is kind of like raping a robochick with a shovel tho \ 585) <oklopol> but i guess (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2) if n is even, (x + y)^n = (x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)...(x^2 + 2xy + y^2)(x + y) is as good a fundamental theorem as any \ 300) <oklopol> i understand that people had to use twitter and facebook before irc was
01:37:54 <oerjan> `run while true; do quote; done | grep oerjan
01:38:00 <kmc> fungot: do you shuffle?
01:38:00 <fungot> kmc: :( floreat fnord."
01:38:02 <HackEgo> *poof* <oklofok> destroying a local copy of the world is kind of like raping a robochick with a shovel tho
01:38:03 <elliott> piggybacking the quote game on the for loops
01:38:15 <HackEgo> 762) <Taneb> the killers dancer in my c***
01:38:23 <HackEgo> 324) <monqy> my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup
01:38:26 <HackEgo> bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or directory \ bash: /hackenv/bin/quote: No such file or
01:38:27 <elliott> kmc: you have to do five btw
01:38:44 <HackEgo> 280) <cpressey> BYE dbc WE'LL BE SURE TO ACCIDENTALLY MENTION YOUR NICK OFTEN
01:38:48 <HackEgo> 94) <Warrigal> Darn, now I can't acknowledge the reference you were making.
01:38:53 <HackEgo> 785) <Lumpio-> STOP CAPITALIZING <Lumpio-> It's making me feel weird <shubshub> the I has to be capitilized its proper grammer
01:39:08 <shachaf> <kmc> 20 4 * * * /usr/bin/smoke weed
01:39:19 <shachaf> I guess it would be 20 16 in practice
01:39:23 <shachaf> Though that's not raelly specified.
01:40:56 <kmc> both are acceptable
01:41:29 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ allquotes | if [ "$1" ]; then \ if expr "$1" + 0 >/dev/null 2>&1; then \ sed "$1q;d" \ else \ grep -P -i -- "$1" \ fi \ else shuf -n 1; fi
01:41:37 <elliott> kmc: come on you have to come to a decision
01:41:56 <kmc> no binary named `smoke` in all of debian!
01:41:58 <kmc> elliott: o rly
01:42:02 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ nl -w 1 -s ') ' quotes
01:42:35 <kmc> `delquote 762
01:42:39 <HackEgo> *poof* <Taneb> the killers dancer in my c***
01:42:51 <kmc> pour one out for 762
01:43:13 <elliott> that one was pretty funny at the time but admittedly it loses something without context
01:43:57 <HackEgo> 207) [CTCP] Received CTCP-ERRMSG reply from clog: unknown CTCP: ERRMSG.
01:44:00 <HackEgo> 26) <Deewiant> ehird: There is no h in "honour"
01:44:45 <HackEgo> 762) <Taneb> hang on I have bright idea <Taneb> navajo to f me 1 in 3 people
01:44:48 <HackEgo> 747) <zzo38> I think we are sort of this insane, and also sort of not as much as insane, and also sort of a bit more insane than that, and also somewhat more various other thing at various times whatever you are discussing at that time
01:44:50 <HackEgo> 647) <olsner> characters in tv series should learn to check the timestamp before they get their hopes up... *no chance* this will work at 10 minutes into the episode
01:44:52 <HackEgo> 357) <Sgeo> I hope type inference isn't difficult
01:46:03 <kmc> WINE is sort of like a dancing bear
01:46:34 * oerjan thinks kmc may have had too much
01:46:48 <kmc> the marvel is not that the bear dances well, but that he dances at all
01:48:43 <kmc> bbl, playing grand theft auto as long as i hit enter at just the right time
01:48:57 <Phantom_Hoover> although it is annoying when nobody will give you tips on bear dancing because you pirated the bear this analogy is falling apart rapidly
01:49:24 <elliott> you wouldn't download a bear?
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02:09:48 <Gregor> <elliott> you wouldn't download a bear? // what kind of bear are we talking about
02:10:25 <Gregor> Insufficient disambiguation.
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02:15:27 <oerjan> @quote edwardk unsafeCoerce
02:15:27 <lambdabot> edwardk says: this breaks my previous record of 6 unsafeCoerce's in a line
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02:38:10 <oerjan> !malbolge http://matthias-ernst.eu/malbolge/quine.mb
02:38:16 <EgoBot> bt&A@?>=<;49876543210/.-,+*)('&%$#"!~}|<zyxwvutsrU0B{Ql,wihgfedcoa`_B]\UyYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@]>=<;k9876543Q10p.o,+*)('&%$#"!~}vuz]xwvutsrkpSnmlkjihgfeH]baZ_XWV[ZSXW:9TSRQJONMLEJCHGFED'&A@?>7<}{{yywwuussqqoommkki'~g$#"y~a|{zyxwvutsVkpohmfkjihafedGFa`_^]\>><<::8866442200..,HGF?('BA@?>=<;:9876543,10/.o,+*)('&%e#"!b}v{zyxwvotslqponQlejihgJ_dcba`CX]\[ZY<QVUNSL5PONMLE.IHA@ED'BA#?>=~;:z276w43s10/p-,l$)(i&%e#"!b}|^tyx[vutVrqTonmOkjMKgfe^cFa`_X]\?Z<RWVU8SRKJON1LKDIHG*
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03:27:44 <kmc> shachaf: did you know there's a PC BIOS command to switch to protected mode?
03:28:15 <kmc> INT 15h, AH = 89h
03:28:50 <shachaf> "There is no BIOS service to return to real mode." :-(
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04:02:54 <tswett> I like the idea of time-continuous chess.
04:12:25 <zzo38> I don't know how to play (or how to make) time-continuous chess.
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04:16:11 <Gregor> I wonder if continuity in that dimension, assuming that true continuity exists for the sake of argument, could render chess unsolvable.
04:16:46 <kmc> would you still have discrete player turns?
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04:20:26 <Bike> a friend suggests that continuous Go may make more sense.
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04:52:13 <zzo38> So, how do you make continuous Go?
04:52:24 <Bike> http://www.di.fc.ul.pt/~jpn/gv/boards.htm
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05:08:39 <zzo38> But can it be made with time continuous too?
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05:58:28 <Sgeo|web> elliott: Fiora monqy... unless you saw it already
06:16:51 <Fiora> caliborn is creepy ;-;
06:17:46 <Sgeo|web> You did not realize this before?
06:20:25 <coppro> he's definitely my favourite character recently
06:20:25 <Fiora> I realized it before
06:20:28 <Fiora> he is just even more creepy
06:20:43 <Fiora> the latest log is painful to read almost
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06:21:18 <Fiora> (yet at the same time he's incredibly funny? I don't know how hussie does it)
06:21:27 <coppro> it is funny because creepy is funny
06:21:31 <coppro> if it isn't too creepy
06:21:36 <Fiora> well, cronus wasn't funny really
06:21:57 <Fiora> gosh the whole mess with the welded-down mouse had me in stitches
06:23:24 <Fiora> http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/36301139742/ the context made it even more hilarious though
06:28:56 <coppro> but not because of him
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06:33:30 <coppro> Fiora: tumblr quote trees are so hard to read :(
06:34:02 <Fiora> was that one really that bad?
06:34:06 <Bike> don't think of it as "hard to read", think of it as "livejournal vintage"! except without any of the interface or readability or sane design
06:36:53 <Fiora> my only real complaint about the quote trees is when they get really really smushed because the quotes are too deep
06:37:13 <Fiora> but I think I've avoided 98% of that by not following people who argue with each other via reblogs? ^^;;
06:37:38 <Bike> it's kind of great to see the text literally smooshed out of the boxes, though.
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06:39:40 <Fiora> there's also that thing where all "likes" to a post show up as likes to the original post
06:40:03 <Fiora> so if Alice reblogs Bob and comments on how wrong Bob is, liking Alice's post likes Bob's post
06:40:34 <Bike> yeah it's pretty obvious that the designers don't really care about anybody using it for mroe than sharing pictures
06:41:51 <coppro> it's pretty damn hilarious really
06:54:52 <Sgeo|web> Hussie once complained about how rebloging lets you change what it said without making it obvious that it's not the original
06:55:39 <Fiora> Yeah, I saw that thing, some people were being real jerkfaces
06:57:00 <Sgeo|web> http://mspandrew.tumblr.com/post/21131451322/reblog-fraud http://mspandrew.tumblr.com/post/21132946524/i-reiterate
06:57:14 <Sgeo|web> He wasn't complaing about the people, but about how Tumblr enabled those people
06:57:25 <Fiora> well, that too, yeah
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07:52:53 <Sgeo|web> http://dwcope.freeshell.org/projects/quine/ helpful tutorial.
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08:03:45 <pikhq> Notice: Undefined property: Context::$inselection in /www/af/d/dwcope/php/Beautifier/Core.php on line 170
08:03:50 <pikhq> I found that quite illustrative.
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08:31:19 <fungot> GreyKnight: prof., is not acid or only slightly so, in/ pumiceous and other beds :) a purple colour, hard, fine-grained, thinly stratified, highly porphyritic conglomerates, including many species, a directly opposite nature, and have been subsequently protected by vast superimposed deposits: now this could generally only hold good with heterostyled species.
08:31:56 <GreyKnight> It's a bit early for porphyritic conglomerates
08:32:04 <HackEgo> ? \ @ \ No \ WELCOME \ WeLcOmE \ addquote \ addquotee \ allquotes \ anonlog \ calc \ define \ delquote \ delquotee \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ frink \ fuck \ google \ hatesgeo \ hi \ joustreport \ jousturl \ json \ k \ karma \ karma+ \ karma- \ learn \ log \ logurl \ macro \ maketext \ marco \ paste \ pastefortunes \ pastekarma \ pastelog \ pastelogs \ pastenquotes \ pastequotes \ pastewisdom \ pastlog \ ping
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08:41:37 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
08:42:00 <fungot> Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself)
08:42:12 <fungot> shachaf: something like scheme48 ( upon the general position is a part of these amendments, i can only thank the president-in-office, you did hear me say that we have had in getting information with regard to monetary policy, a factor is
08:44:59 <GreyKnight> Yo dawg, I heard you like Markov chains
08:45:52 <GreyKnight> The president-in-office is making an amendment regarding scheme48?!
08:55:26 <GreyKnight> Not sure how it will affect monetary policy, unless maybe the Americans are moving to a cons cell-based economy?
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09:27:37 <Jafet> They already have con sellers
09:28:32 <shachaf> GreyKnight: Who said anything about Americans?
09:29:31 <GreyKnight> I did, just now. Weren't you listening?!
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09:50:29 <GreyKnight> fungot: take Lord of the Rings for example, there's a lot of truth to be found within its pages. Can anyone honestly tell me that there is no history to be found in Tolkien's work? Just look at the maps in the back of the books, NO ONE can make that up!
09:50:29 <fungot> GreyKnight: no, it's not. it's more complex than that. read the code.) good stuff is actually pretty nice, but sometimes it's necessary to achieve a consensus, for " 3" does not mean radio or remote and snowy rim, like the serrated edge, and it is eta. f
09:53:06 <GreyKnight> fizzie, I don't suppose the stuff we talk to fungot about gets stored for regurgitation?
09:53:06 <fungot> GreyKnight: and it's self-modifying techniques." stop immobilizes and disables you. in these bones, i shall return! by the way, the wings! now this is a way to the ocean palace?
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10:43:28 <fizzie> Gregor: No, except in the sense that it goes into my irc logs and would therefore be used if I were to rebuild the irc style.
10:43:47 <fizzie> Quits and tab completion don't mix.
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10:56:26 <fungot> Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive)
10:56:32 <fungot> FireFly: from: ericcbmvax!snark.thyrsus.com ( er) date: wed, 16 jul 90 15:06:57 est from:
10:56:44 <fungot> FireFly: would you choose? dos with windows? it's not unix's fault, i was ahead of in the words of the registers ( r0).
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13:45:05 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Loop_without_output
13:45:09 <ais523> does that even count as esoteric?
13:45:19 <ais523> I guess it isn't mainstream, and it's sufficiently useless
13:45:26 <ais523> but it doesn't fit into any of our existing categories
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14:05:33 <Lumpio-> It claims to be "as useful as Brainfuck"
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14:44:03 <AnotherTest> Why doesn't the paradigm "instruction rewriting" exist (as in terminology)?
14:51:43 <FireFly> What'd that be, self-modifying programs?
14:52:36 <AnotherTest> although yes, that terminology is probably not really good
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15:33:00 <elliott> @tell ais523 star651's languages appear to be esoteric mainly by way of being very poor
15:33:38 <AnotherTest> elliott: Is it even a language? I though it was simply a loop which can be eliminated.
15:34:59 <elliott> it is in the "concepts" category
15:35:05 <elliott> so maybe it is meant to be closer to performance art than a language
15:44:00 <Arc_Koen> AnotherTest: well first you'd need to have something called an instruction
15:44:13 <Arc_Koen> in most languages you can define functions or stuff like that
15:44:24 <Arc_Koen> it's not so much "rewriting" as "writing"
15:44:53 <Arc_Koen> and the few keywords for instructions are reserved and can't be rewritten because it would be too obfuscated otherwise
15:46:20 <Arc_Koen> but apparently no one argued against making it (or "self-redefining") a category
15:46:51 <Arc_Koen> I just wanted to make a list of pages that would go in there, before actually creating the page for the category
15:47:36 <Arc_Koen> because apparently pages for categories are not updated every time you add some page to the category, so I think it's best to first add most pages to it then only write the page (and that should update it automatically)
15:48:03 <FireFly> Category:Self-modifying exists already
15:48:28 <AnotherTest> well Self-modifying isn't the same as Self-redefining I think
15:48:44 <Arc_Koen> the point is, rewriting instructions is not the same as rewriting the code itself
15:48:51 <FireFly> Would self-redefining be a higher-level modification?
15:48:52 <elliott> "because apparently pages for categories are not updated every time you add some page to the category" huh?
15:49:16 <Arc_Koen> elliott: well for instance take a page that's currently in "Unimplemented"
15:49:21 <Arc_Koen> write an implementation for it
15:49:27 <Arc_Koen> and then put it in "Implemented" instead
15:49:45 <Arc_Koen> then go to esoteric.org/wiki/Category:Implemented
15:49:56 <Arc_Koen> then go to Category:Unimplemented
15:50:05 <FireFly> Surely you just have to purge the cache of the category for it to change?
15:50:09 <elliott> there will be a slight lag due to the job queue
15:50:16 <elliott> if it doesn't fix itself in a few minutes then that is a bug
15:50:18 <elliott> (but try force-refreshing)
15:50:47 <FireFly> wikiroot/index.php?title=foo:bar&action=purge <-- I think that should help
15:51:16 <elliott> well you shouldn't have to purge it
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16:06:30 <Arc_Koen> elliott: ok take http://esolangs.org/wiki/*brainfuck for instance
16:06:42 <Arc_Koen> it's supposed to be in Category:Implemented
16:07:10 <elliott> maybe you have some broken caching proxy fucking things up
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16:07:59 <Arc_Koen> that's weird I manually empty the cache every day or so
16:08:09 <Arc_Koen> ok let me try with firefow then
16:08:41 <elliott> you shouldn't have to do anything manually to get cached pages renewed when appropriate on Esolang
16:08:51 <elliott> unless you have really overzealous cache settings that don't even check with the server
16:09:59 <elliott> then it's your fault for configuring it that way :P
16:10:18 <Arc_Koen> ok, I can't see it on Category:Implemented but I do see it on http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Implemented&pageuntil=4DL#mw-pages
16:10:29 <Arc_Koen> so that's definitely a problem with me
16:11:12 <elliott> try just shift+f5 / ctrl+f5
16:14:39 <elliott> it's funny because you made a joke about an operating system being bad even though all operating systems are terrible
16:14:58 <elliott> Arc_Koen: maybe just command+r will work
16:15:25 <elliott> or shift click refresh or something
16:15:39 <Arc_Koen> elliott: it's been that way for months and I have everything set on "forget everything everyday" so I don't think it can be solved that easily
16:15:44 <elliott> AnotherTest: probably more than you have? unless someone is hiding something from me they are all pretty terrible
16:16:02 <elliott> Arc_Koen: maybe just try using another browser then :P
16:16:09 <elliott> it sounds weird that this caching would happen though
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16:16:17 <elliott> perhaps there is a problem on the srever-side that doesn't show with most browsers
16:16:25 <AnotherTest> elliott: Well I didn't say they're all terrible...
16:16:47 <elliott> Arc_Koen: I have the server-side caching pretty zealous but it should send all the right HTTP headers so I have no idea
16:17:01 <AnotherTest> Yes, so there is no reason that I should have tried them all (or more than you)
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16:17:35 <AnotherTest> elliott: also, if they're all terrible, it's still possible that some are less terrible
16:17:53 <elliott> well the ones that are less terrible are also the ones that are more useless, which is itself terrible
16:18:27 <Arc_Koen> elliott: hmm, I don't know. Also I noticed sometimes my session is out but on some pages that I visit often it still shows as if I was logged in as Koen
16:18:56 <elliott> Arc_Koen: sounds like excessive caching again, yes
16:19:22 <Arc_Koen> it wouldn't be the first time something weird happens though, on that other board games site that supported german and english, I was apparently the only one for whom it automatically switched back to german from time to time
16:21:03 <AnotherTest> (assuming GreyKnight is talking about Arc Linux) According to elliott, a terrible OS
16:23:38 <elliott> linux combines the numerous flaws of unix with some of its own, etc.
16:24:04 <elliott> AnotherTest: because it is convenient to install software I use on it and I have to use something
16:24:11 <elliott> that is not really an endorsement.
16:24:20 <elliott> plenty of people use Windows and I'm sure a large number of them don't like it one bit
16:24:35 <GreyKnight> elliott, you should write your own OS :-)
16:24:45 <Taneb> I use Ubuntu because I'm not completely right in the head and actually like Unity
16:25:06 <elliott> GreyKnight: been there, not done that
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16:27:52 <Taneb> It was/will be called "@", I believe
16:28:20 <GreyKnight> You should call it "" (the empty string)
16:29:40 <AnotherTest> If elliott made an OS, I would definitely install it
16:29:57 <AnotherTest> although that would be so I could say it was terrible :D
16:31:01 <AnotherTest> ("even though all operating systems are terrible" is what you said)
16:31:23 <AnotherTest> Maybe you should make something that's not an OS but does the exact same thing
16:31:29 <elliott> the truth values of statements can change over time
16:31:37 <elliott> for instance I am not dead, that does not mean I am immortal
16:32:04 <AnotherTest> If you had said "all existing operating systems", I would agree
16:32:57 <elliott> that is what I said. your interpretation is uncharitable for many common phrasings of statements, I don't see any reason to assume statements are timeless in general
16:33:41 <GreyKnight> If he had said "all operating systems ever" maybe
16:33:42 <AnotherTest> I was always told good statements are :p, but alright
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16:49:28 <Gregor> My opinions on distros became much simpler after I decided to start blindly worshiping Debian as a digital messiah.
16:50:11 <Gregor> If I want to know if something is a good idea, I just have to ask myself, “does Debian do it that way?”
16:55:03 <Phantom_Hoover> AnotherTest, elliott was also going to make his own linux distro for a while
16:55:53 <elliott> i gave up on that when i realised the effort required exceeded the gains
16:56:08 <AnotherTest> (05:27:24 PM) elliott: linux combines the numerous flaws of unix with some of its own, etc.
16:56:37 <elliott> AnotherTest: what is your point
16:56:49 <GreyKnight> Anybody have a recommendation for a Scheme that runs on Win7?
16:57:09 <elliott> racket has pretty good windows support I think, if that counts as a scheme to you
16:57:10 <GreyKnight> Preferably one that works with SICP without major headaches
16:57:20 <elliott> well I guess you could just set the langauge to r5rs
16:58:06 <AnotherTest> elliott: I don't really have a strong point, that's the point
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17:14:32 <Taneb> I'm worried I have metahyperchondria
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18:07:53 -!- kmc has set topic: ♣ Club Sauce ♣ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
18:20:32 <Phantom_Hoover> hey guys elliott's selling all the information he gets from esowiki on to google, also facebook & mi5
18:21:17 <olsner> the information on esowiki needs to be more widely disseminated
18:26:12 <Phantom_Hoover> if you want esolangville be my guest, but i'm taking a stand
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18:33:51 <FreeFull> What would be a better way of writing insertNewlines n string = foldr (\(x,y) acc -> if and [x `mod` n == 0,x /= 0] then '\n':y:acc else y:acc) [] $ zip [0..] string
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18:35:32 <FreeFull> > foldr (\(x,y) acc -> if and [x `mod` 3 == 0,x /= 0] then '\n':y:acc else y:acc) [] $ zip [0..] "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."
18:35:33 <lambdabot> "Meo\nw, \nI a\nm a\n ch\nees\ney \nhor\nse."
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18:41:34 <GreyKnight> "* oerjan is reminded of Gregor's (?) horrible tome of eval puns" <-- I desire to know more
18:42:01 <fungot> Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings)
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18:42:22 <fungot> GreyKnight: whitmore. come, come,
18:42:45 <GreyKnight> But fungot, I don't want to go to Whitmore :<
18:42:46 <fungot> GreyKnight: 2 you shall haue your will, as't please your lordship, to day the lords you talke of horse and armour?
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18:43:16 <GreyKnight> FR: make it work in iambic pentameter :-3
18:43:21 <Gregor> GreyKnight: http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/jv/pubs/ecoop11.pdf
18:44:19 <Gregor> I don't know if we collected a list of puns we rejected X-D
18:45:06 <GreyKnight> "The Eval that Men Do" <-- begin as you mean to continue, I see
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18:46:14 <Deewiant> > intercalate "\n" . chunk 3 $ "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."
18:46:16 <lambdabot> "Meo\nw, \nI a\nm a\n ch\nees\ney \nhor\nse."
18:47:35 * GreyKnight tries to figure out a possible use for that output
18:47:46 <Deewiant> > intercalate "\n" . chunksOf 3 $ "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."
18:47:48 <lambdabot> "Meo\nw, \nI a\nm a\n ch\nees\ney \nhor\nse."
18:48:08 <Deewiant> (chunksOf is in Data.List.Split)
18:49:14 <elliott> Deewiant: Get with the program:
18:49:39 <elliott> > "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."^.folded.chunking 3.to (intercalate "\n")
18:49:50 <elliott> > "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."^.folded.Data.List.Split.Lens.chunking 3.to (intercalate "\n")
18:49:52 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `Data.List.Split.Lens.chunking'
18:50:21 <elliott> @let chunking s l f = coerce . traverse f . Data.List.Split.chunksOf s . toListOf l
18:50:22 <lambdabot> <local>:8:18: Not in scope: `coerce'
18:50:51 <elliott> @let chunking s l f = traverse f . Data.List.Split.chunksOf s . toListOf l
18:50:55 <Deewiant> FreeFull: Alternatively, cabal install lens and go through the above contortions.
18:50:55 <lambdabot> Applicative f => Int -> Getting (Endo [e]) s t e b1 -> ([e] -> f b) -> s -> f [b]
18:51:09 <elliott> > "Meow, I am a cheesey horse."^.folded.chunking 3.to (intercalate "\n")
18:51:10 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
18:51:14 <elliott> Deewiant: Hey, these contortions are all lambdabot's fault.
18:52:11 <Deewiant> elliott: I know, but even your first line feels like contortions for an isolated case. :-P
18:52:18 <elliott> well I was not entirely serious
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18:53:58 * elliott might write it that way in practice, though
18:54:11 <elliott> since you can stuff other stuff in there if you want
18:55:06 <Deewiant> You can do that without lenses, too; it's called function composition.
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18:56:51 <elliott> admittedly this one is pathological
18:56:54 <GreyKnight> Gregor: read the paper, I've seen worse punderstorms :-P
18:57:36 <Deewiant> I think your "chunking" has incorrect type, but the expression you gave doesn't work with lens-3.7.0.1 regardless.
18:57:54 <elliott> right my chunking is wrong
18:58:25 <FreeFull> GreyKnight: I'm planning on writing a program that outputs ascii graphics
18:58:47 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. \ F.r.e.eFull likes messing around way too much
18:59:07 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
18:59:36 <Gregor> <GreyKnight> Gregor: read the paper, I've seen worse punderstorms :-P // that's because you don't have the pile of puns we rejected.
19:00:00 <elliott> should put something about my vicious wiki dictatorship in my entry
19:00:05 <elliott> instill the fear of god into people
19:00:56 <GreyKnight> FreeFull: I was wondering if the particular sentence Deewiant used was something, or maybe he's a Markov device like fungot!
19:00:57 <fungot> GreyKnight: fran. for this purpose? lord. by his great authority; which often hath no less than what he found himselfe was apt, and my fnord may call him my master, mr. g. fnord.
19:01:01 <Gregor> See no Eval, Hear no Eval, Speak no Eval. The Origin of Eval. True Eval.
19:01:13 <olsner> elliott: maybe end it with something like "Does not do anything with the wiki. Ask oerjan about the wiki."
19:01:34 <Gregor> (That was a potential title for the paper, but was rejected for suggesting provenance)
19:02:18 <HackEgo> The wiki is at http://esolangs.org/wiki
19:02:18 <GreyKnight> how about "The only thing necessary for eval to succeed is for good researchers to do nothing"
19:03:04 <olsner> hmm, that might be the only truthful wisdom in the database
19:03:24 <Gregor> GreyKnight: Damn, that should've gone into Eval Begone :(
19:04:16 <GreyKnight> repay eval with eval? I suppose that isn't quite the point you want to get across ;-)
19:04:27 <GreyKnight> same for "eval to him who eval thinks"
19:05:26 <GreyKnight> well, I suppose you did give a few valid cases for it in the paper really
19:05:49 <Gregor> I'm on to bigger and less punny things.
19:12:18 <FreeFull> GreyKnight: Repay eval with apply
19:12:54 <FireFly> "While JavaScript provides a few other entry points to code injection, such as setInterval, setTimeout [...]" ← those are provided by DOM, no?
19:13:28 <FireFly> I think `eval` and `Function` are the only ES-specced places where you can inject source code as a string programatically
19:13:35 <Gregor> FireFly: “JavaScript” is not “ECMAScript”
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19:14:08 <elliott> Gregor: Those quotes, really.
19:14:15 <Gregor> Usu. we colloquially use “JavaScript” to mean “that language and suite of libraries sorta kinda implemented by browsers.”
19:14:33 <Taneb> What about "ActionScript"
19:14:56 <FireFly> Taneb: it's a dialect of the abandoned 4th ed. ECMAScript
19:17:07 <Gregor> elliott: „Just for you, I'll start using German quotes.“
19:18:12 <FireFly> »I'm swedish and this is supposedly how we're meant to quote things»
19:18:47 <Taneb> 'I honestly have "no idea" how to "quote" things'
19:18:47 <Gregor> FireFly: That's even worse than "ASCII quotes".
19:19:08 <elliott> I didn't realise Gregor was one of Those People.
19:19:26 <Taneb> elliott, he also likes an operating system that currently exists
19:19:27 <FireFly> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%BB#Uses huh
19:19:30 <Gregor> elliott: It all started with diaeresis marks in this channel ;)
19:19:44 <FireFly> I think both »this« and »this» are officially endorsed, then
19:19:51 <Deewiant> – Or this, which is more common at least in Finnish.
19:20:28 <FireFly> Deewiant: yeah, that's just as ugly
19:20:42 <FireFly> <Deewiant> FireFly: ”Or this.” <-- that one, that is
19:20:48 <elliott> Deewiant: More like FNINISH.
19:20:54 <elliott> Deewiant: Did you hear fizzie and oklopol were in the same city?
19:21:07 <Deewiant> elliott: Yes, you were quite loud about it.
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19:21:18 <elliott> Finland = land of varnish? Confirm for me Deewiant.
19:21:34 -!- Bike has joined.
19:21:36 <GreyKnight> ¨Diæresis marks for quotes? Now I've heard everything.¨
19:22:23 <Deewiant> elliott: Well, at least I have a varnished desk, if that counts.
19:22:35 <elliott> Deewiant: Sounds like incontrovertible proof for me.
19:22:48 <GreyKnight> wow I just found the unicode block at U+1F000, I didn't know this existed
19:23:26 <Gregor> 🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat!)
19:25:16 <Deewiant> elliott: That's just an ASCII space, that's not interesting at all.
19:25:39 <elliott> Deewiant: OTOH: you're an ASCII space?
19:25:49 * elliott just saw blank spaces for the previous line. rxvt's fault??
19:26:02 <Deewiant> I also saw nothing, and for Gregor's goat
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19:26:16 <Deewiant> I don't use mosh so maybe it's urxvt.
19:26:23 <elliott> don't be silly. Everyone uses mosh
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19:26:38 <Deewiant> Evidently I'm an ASCII space so I don't count as being part of "everyone".
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19:27:37 <elliott> ASCII spaces are people too???
19:28:44 <FreeFull> elliott: 🐃 and 🐐 show up as unicode animals for me
19:28:54 <FreeFull> I can't really see them that well due to font size though
19:28:55 <elliott> FreeFull: IMO: you're a unicode animal?
19:30:10 <zzo38> Can mosh turn off Unicode yet? Linux can turn off Unicode.
19:30:35 <elliott> @ask kmc <zzo38> Can mosh turn off Unicode yet? Linux can turn off Unicode.
19:32:34 <lambdabot> kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:32:39 <lambdabot> elliott asked 2m 4s ago: <zzo38> Can mosh turn off Unicode yet? Linux can turn off Unicode.
19:33:12 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
19:37:28 <Bike> my favorite are the emoticons
19:37:36 <GreyKnight> FireFly: that's how we started off :-P
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19:38:30 <jdiez> is that an infinite loop in brainfuck?
19:38:41 <Taneb> Depends on the implementation
19:38:47 <FreeFull> jdiez: Only if cells don't wraparound
19:39:03 <jdiez> well, it should be regardless of that
19:39:07 <jdiez> it's only incrementing the value
19:39:18 <FreeFull> jdiez: Yeah, but if the cell overflows, it will eventually be 0
19:39:18 <Bike> some implementations use modular arithmetic, though.
19:39:29 <jdiez> FreeFull: ah, okay, mine doesn't
19:39:32 <Bike> so 2^32-1 + 1 = 0 or whatever.
19:39:35 <FreeFull> That's what I meant by wraparound
19:39:41 <jdiez> I'm working on a dialect of brainfuck that I'm calling spacefuck
19:40:08 <FreeFull> If you're using a bf implementation with 32-bit cells, it will take a long time for the loop to terminate
19:40:22 <FireFly> Oh god, another BF derivative
19:40:26 <jdiez> well, the implementation is in python so it has arbitrary precision
19:40:28 <GreyKnight> ⟨Oh, this | is what I was looking for⟩
19:41:51 <FreeFull> GreyKnight: You'll eventually run out of memory, and the loop will terminate then
19:41:54 <FireFly> In that case it's not only an infinite loop, but also a memory-hogger :P
19:41:58 <Taneb> jdiez, #esoteric and #0x10c-dev have a fair bit of overlap
19:42:01 <Bike> modular arithmetic was good enough for your forefathers, young man
19:42:16 <FireFly> Taneb: more than, say, 5 people?
19:42:29 <GreyKnight> Shut up mum, you don't understand me ;_;
19:42:43 <Taneb> FireFly, somewhere between 1 and 3
19:42:56 <fungot> .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ ...
19:43:11 <Bike> uh. am i going to die in seven days now
19:43:31 <Bike> because the inverse video looks spooky
19:43:39 <FireFly> Does it take seven days to die?
19:46:31 <elliott> FreeFull: itz,m whaever iwant!!
19:47:18 <FireFly> fungot: what's your current conversation style?
19:47:19 <fungot> FireFly: clar. or else you are that in this vniust diuorce of vs, and make the earth devour her own sweet fnord pluck the keen teeth from the fierce tiger's jaws, and burn, like horse, hound, hog, beare, fire, kill, kill him not!
19:47:37 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss* wp youtube
19:48:30 <fungot> Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673)
19:48:34 <fungot> FreeFull: what the hell is that?
19:48:50 <Bike> homestuck seems rather mean
19:49:02 <fizzie> It's also somewhat limited.
19:49:04 <fungot> GreyKnight: is it a mission critical text document with a velvet gloves. he is simply the best there is.
19:49:49 <fizzie> It does not OCR pictures or desmurfpile Flashes.
19:50:25 <Taneb> fungot, would you like to play a game?
19:50:25 <fungot> Taneb: so the dumbest and most far fetched but whatever. you also like to play games sometimes.
19:51:11 -!- Gregor has set topic: ♣ Smurf Pile Club Sauce ♣ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:51:49 <Taneb> GreyKnight is like some sort of futuristic oerjan
19:52:16 <Gregor> With a more ambiguous nick >_>
19:53:28 <Deewiant> elliott: Re. blanks instead of Unicode, I think it's the IRC client. I get a nice <0001f410> in another tmux window.
19:53:45 <fizzie> GreyKnight: "No, except in the sense that it goes into my irc logs and would therefore be used if I were to rebuild the irc style.", to answer your question from a while ago.
19:54:28 <Gregor> GreyKnight: Both of our nicks start with the same three characters, so to tab complete if we're both talking you need to type four >: (
19:55:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
19:55:31 -!- GreyKnight has changed nick to FuturisticOerjan.
19:55:40 <Deewiant> Or type g and press tab twice, depending on your client.
19:56:46 <FreeFull> I like a language I can write in without resorting to browsing through charmap =P
19:57:23 <FuturisticOerjan> You can do that with APL! As long as you have a space cadet keyboard ⍩
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20:02:12 <FuturisticOerjan> You'll be astonished ⍤ — astonished, I say! — ⍥ when you press a button on the keyboard ⌨ and APL comes out. You'll want to kiss it ⍣
20:04:28 <FreeFull> I can write ♯ and ♭ with my keyboard
20:04:56 <FireFly> xkb ships with an `apl` layout for entering APL characters
20:05:22 <FreeFull> FireFly: I don't want to switch to it in case I can't switch back
20:05:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split).
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20:06:20 <FreeFull> It's confusing and ctrl doesn't work
20:06:46 <FreeFull> Also altgr+character inserts a two-byte non-unicode sequence
20:06:48 <FireFly> I think it's meant to be used as an alternative layout that you switch to, or something
20:10:44 * FireFly swats FuturisticOerjan ----##
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20:11:59 <FuturisticOerjan> U+101D0 to U+101FF are the Phaistos Disc symbols, that is pretty darn cool when you think about it
20:16:25 <FreeFull> PETSCII is a perfect candidate for one of the things unicode is for
20:17:39 <Deewiant> FuturisticOerjan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PETSCII#Codepage_layout
20:20:47 <FreeFull> I don't seem to have the font required for some of the characters in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PETSCII#Codepage_layout
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20:24:44 <HackEgo> 433) <monqy> rest in peace lambdabot???? <ais523> monqy: it'll probably be back later <monqy> nap in peace
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20:32:53 <HackEgo> 39) <fizzie> Seconds. 30 of them. Did I forget the word?
20:33:33 <FuturisticOerjan> is there a list of the quotes somewhere so I can have a gander without spamming?
20:33:33 -!- ared_ has joined.
20:33:48 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.27177
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20:36:28 <HackEgo> 15) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it.
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20:41:55 -!- ared_ has changed nick to xDEADCA7.
20:45:07 <zzo38> Well, I will have PETSCII compatibility in a computer system I design, regardless of if Unicode has it or not, because the system doesn't use Unicode (some programs might use any encoding they want, including Unicode, but it is not a part of the computer).
20:46:25 <zzo38> Not only PETSCII but also CP437 and some other things.
20:46:46 -!- ion has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
20:46:55 <zzo38> CP437 might be the default character set (or maybe not)
20:52:16 <Taneb> Heh, I remember the context to 693
20:52:24 <HackEgo> 693) <Phantom_Hoover> Incest, the enemy of graph theorists everywhere.
20:53:11 <HackEgo> 117) <oklopol> but yeah i'm not exactly comfortable with this stuff, to me it seems like if you can unscrew lightbulbs, why couldn't you see into the future, or through walls as well
20:55:18 <Bike> `quote 117 # lessee
20:56:46 <jdiez> https://github.com/jdiez17/spacefuck
20:57:00 <jdiez> so yeah, I may have implemented Yet Another Brainfuck Dialect
20:57:10 <Taneb> jdiez, run before PH hears
20:57:23 <Taneb> And writes about it on his Tumblr
20:57:27 <jdiez> but the hello world is pretty self descriptive! https://github.com/jdiez17/spacefuck/blob/master/examples/hello.sf *giggles*
20:57:32 <Taneb> And replaces your brain with a brick
20:58:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:59:00 <Taneb> Also, I swear I've seen something like that before
20:59:31 <jdiez> Taneb: well, there's Whitespace
20:59:48 <Taneb> No, another brainfuck deriv
21:00:22 * oerjan gives the future a warning swat -----###
21:01:26 -!- FuturisticOerjan has changed nick to GreyKnight.
21:01:58 <oerjan> wait, you mean Gregor actually has fashion sense?
21:02:01 <elliott> ok who is 86.146.80.103 fess up
21:02:07 <GreyKnight> (Gregor complained that I was ruining his tab-completion, and somebody claimed I was "like a futuristic oerjan" (I still don't know what this means (yay parentheses)))
21:03:03 <GreyKnight> <Taneb> GreyKnight is like some sort of futuristic oerjan
21:03:43 <Taneb> * GreyKnight zaps Gregor ⚡
21:04:37 <oerjan> Taneb doesn't think i'm futuristic enough already ;_;
21:05:00 <Taneb> oerjan, you're still using a flyswatter
21:05:08 <oerjan> Taneb: no that's not me.
21:05:11 <Taneb> That's like, 16th century technology
21:06:14 <oerjan> hm it's hard to make an ascii zap that doesn't look like a saw
21:06:14 * GreyKnight swats Taneb with a mediaeval swatter ---ᚙ
21:06:30 * Taneb dies and is reincarnated as Ngevd
21:06:33 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd.
21:07:39 <olsner> oh, taneb is/was ngevd
21:07:55 <Ngevd> olsner, I'm also atriq
21:08:06 <Ngevd> And elliott, but you're not allowed to know that
21:08:14 <olsner> so many names for one thing
21:08:17 <GreyKnight> Hey, I found a Persian swatter too ---𐏊
21:08:51 <oerjan> aka Nathan van Doom, the Evil Mad Typographer
21:12:52 <olsner> ok, someone else in hexham then
21:13:35 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:14:43 <GreyKnight> ais523: ogham has "feather marks" ᚛ and ᚜
21:14:51 <oerjan> elliott: traceroute leads into bt.net
21:14:59 <olsner> note that hexham here refers to the whole UK/great britain/british isles/whatchamacallits
21:15:49 <oerjan> well reverse dns is btcentralplus
21:15:57 <olsner> my traceroute stops at "ilford"
21:16:06 <Gregor> GreyKnight: Ogham also has a space mark that Unicode considers whitespace in spite of the fact that it's not white space. Makes for some fun JavaScript ;)
21:16:26 <oerjan> olsner: mine got to 213.120.163.97
21:16:34 <oerjan> then stalled completely
21:16:47 <GreyKnight> You mean ? It actually is blank in some fonts :-o
21:18:24 <oerjan> that was 7 jumps after ilford
21:18:33 <Gregor> GreyKnight: Broken fonts >_>
21:18:58 <Gregor> Anyway, the net result is that this is valid JS: var x = 42;
21:19:06 <Gregor> And this is true: 42 == 42
21:19:14 <olsner> oerjan: yes, mine also continued with a bunch of ips after ilford, but those aren't informative so I left them out
21:19:30 <GreyKnight> sounds perfect for obfuscation competitions
21:19:37 <FireFly> Ngevd: I wouldn't consider Zeus futuristic
21:20:18 <olsner> code standards fun: indent everything with ogham space marks
21:20:22 <Gregor> You can also get some fun results with the zero-width space.
21:20:37 <Gregor> Put a zero-width space between -- and watch people's heads spin :)
21:20:52 <GreyKnight> Gregor: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1680.pdf has the comment "glyph is blank in 'stemless' style fonts" so I guess they are okay with it
21:20:54 <FireFly> olsner: that's great. This'll finally put an end to the tabs-vs-spaces debate
21:20:57 <olsner> is there a 4-width space?
21:22:52 <lambdabot> mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character)
21:24:06 <olsner> it would be awesome and scary if unicode had a whitespace that looks like unsafeCoerce
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21:24:47 <FreeFull> FireFly: It doesn't seem to like ᒿ
21:24:48 <oerjan> i don't think unicode space characters are legal in haskell identifiers, whether alphanumeric or operators
21:25:21 <olsner> oerjan: unsafeCoerceunsafeCoerceunsafeCoerce
21:25:46 <olsner> pretend that the middle unsafeCoerce is actually whitespace
21:25:50 <FireFly> oerjan: that's a letter character though
21:26:37 <oerjan> FireFly: oh it is? well lambdabot isn't entirely utf-8 clean i guess.
21:27:17 <lambdabot> mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character)
21:27:18 <Gregor> The only Unicode space character that isn't white space is
21:27:35 <lambdabot> mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character)
21:27:46 <oerjan> ok it's completely broken there.
21:27:51 <lambdabot> fd:9: commitBuffer: invalid argument (invalid character)
21:28:09 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo \195\165"]} rest:"\
21:28:24 <lambdabot> expecting letter or digit, variable, "(", operator or end of input
21:28:58 <lambdabot> mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character)
21:29:12 <FireFly> Looks like it treats each individual byte as a character for some reason
21:29:53 <ais523> GreyKnight: Unicode only goes up to 21 bits
21:29:53 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
21:29:57 <lambdabot> elliott said 5h 56m 56s ago: star651's languages appear to be esoteric mainly by way of being very poor
21:30:06 <ais523> elliott: I think I agree with this
21:30:16 <oerjan> FireFly: or possibly lambdabot hasn't been updated on this since ghc got an entirely new system for choosing encoding
21:30:21 <ais523> they're a rank above Shameful, though
21:30:54 <zzo38> Then, what is rank above Shameful called?
21:31:23 <GreyKnight> ais523: that's okay, it's also not a valid character :v
21:32:10 <lambdabot> mueval-core: <stdout>: hPutChar: invalid argument (invalid character)
21:32:33 <ais523> oh, it parsed fine in the input
21:32:36 <ais523> but refused to print it?
21:32:55 <oerjan> i suspect it breaks at various stages
21:32:55 <ais523> (is \195\165 valid UTF-8 for anything?)
21:33:05 <Gregor> ais523: I'd need to see it in binary.
21:33:11 <Gregor> I'm unwilling to decode octal.
21:33:13 <olsner> seems like lamdabot is mangling its own input and/or output to guarantee errors
21:33:21 <ais523> Gregor: well it isn't octal because there's a 9 in there
21:33:32 <Gregor> I'm certainly unwilling to decode decimal.
21:34:25 <Gregor> Basically, if the first byte starts with 110, and the second byte starts with 10, then it's valid UTF-8.
21:35:11 <oerjan> i assume lambdabot is such a mess that it cannot agree with itself whether it uses latin1 or utf-8 internally. which means it still works for pure ascii.
21:35:15 <Deewiant> 195 165 is 0xc3 0xa5 is UTF-8 for å
21:35:39 <ais523> is \165 decimal 165 or octal 165, though?
21:36:02 <ais523> it would be great if the language determined whether it was decimal or octal by looking for 8s and 9s
21:36:06 <oerjan> latin1 was the default before ghc got the new system, now it's your actual locale unless you change it
21:36:07 <FireFly> quick, someone define ^hex in terms of ^bf
21:36:23 <ais523> I feel an esolang coming along, actually
21:36:24 <Gregor> ais523: De facto, JavaScript does that.
21:36:53 <Gregor> ais523: People frequently serialize october and november as 08 and 09, so de facto engines have to accept them X_X
21:37:14 <ais523> I made that mistake on Wikipedia once, but I don't think the resulting code actually worked
21:37:31 <FireFly> That's probably one of the more weird oddities of JS
21:37:33 <elliott> Gregor: october and november?? what?
21:37:44 <FireFly> strict-mode disables octal escapes completely, right?
21:37:50 <Gregor> I'm not very good at months >_>
21:37:57 <ais523> the great thing about that bug is that frequently you don't discover it for several months
21:38:00 <Gregor> August and September I meant, of course X-D
21:38:00 <FireFly> does "\0199" work in strict-mode?
21:38:02 <elliott> Gregor: i'm not either, had to think a bit before deciding whether i could be confused or not
21:38:10 <ais523> do months in JS start from 1 or 0?
21:38:14 <Gregor> FireFly: \09 doesn't work anywhere, regardless.
21:38:18 <ais523> it may actually be september and october
21:38:25 <zzo38> I think they should make the default locale to be ASCII instead of Latin-1, and then, use command-line parameters, environment variables, etc, to change it.
21:38:25 <Gregor> ais523: Oh, I forget *shrugs*
21:38:38 <ais523> !c { char[] a = "\09"; printf("%d %d", a[0], a[1]); }
21:38:41 <zzo38> I like the \& string code in Haskell it is a good idea.
21:38:51 <GreyKnight> I think Java treats 08 and 09 as decimal too (?)
21:38:54 <ais523> I was hoping for "0 57"
21:39:14 <ais523> olsner: reference to a subroutine
21:39:21 <ais523> in the only language where I recognise the syntax at all
21:39:22 <GreyKnight> <ais523> I feel an esolang coming along, actually <-- tell us more
21:39:29 <Gregor> Yeah, I wanna hear about that X-D
21:39:32 <zzo38> olsner: It represents an empty string; but can be used like "\555\&6" if you want a six afterward
21:39:37 <ais523> GreyKnight: one where it picked a base for numbers based on their digits, it would probably make some unrepresentable
21:39:47 <olsner> zzo38: ah, that's nice
21:39:49 <lambdabot> No quotes match. It can only be attributed to human error.
21:39:53 <ais523> Cyclexa has one of those
21:39:54 <Gregor> My first thoughts are that a number is interpreted in the radix of the highest digit + 1.
21:39:54 <FireFly> You could always fall back on unary
21:40:06 <ais523> you could do all numbers from 0 to 9
21:40:16 <ais523> I'm not sure you could to 10
21:40:24 <ais523> OK, I'll use roman numerals to reduce confusion
21:40:32 <ais523> you could do all numbers from _ to IX
21:40:34 <Gregor> `addquote <ais523> OK, I'll use roman numerals to reduce confusion
21:40:35 <ais523> not sure you could do X
21:40:38 <HackEgo> 863) <ais523> OK, I'll use roman numerals to reduce confusion
21:40:55 <ais523> oh, bleh, you can do anything using binary
21:41:08 <ais523> wait, that doesn't help
21:41:11 <ais523> unless you make it a syntax error
21:41:16 <ais523> FireFly: that's good for representing 0
21:41:18 <zzo38> I think I wrote RogueVM that base zero means using roman numerals.
21:41:36 <ais523> if you write more 0s, you just get more 0s
21:41:50 <FireFly> clearly zero should be represented by the empty string
21:41:54 <Gregor> Yeah, you can still represent anything.
21:42:02 <ais523> OK, I think if binary is a syntax error, I is impossible, II to IX are all possible
21:42:14 <ais523> I can't see a way to do X
21:42:30 <ais523> olsner: without cheating and using arithmetic
21:42:41 <ais523> clearly, the only operations allowed are digitwise operations
21:42:47 <ais523> like what TriINTERCAL has
21:42:49 <Gregor> Arithmetic: Totally cheating.
21:43:07 <ais523> and again, it infers the base of the result from the smallest digits in it
21:43:12 <ais523> and again, binary is an error
21:43:13 <olsner> oh, ok... I was thinking about a language or somesuch where the only literal number is 0
21:43:15 <Gregor> You should have a store that can only be accessed by relative offsets from the PC :)
21:43:18 <ais523> (i.e. you have to have at least one digit that's 2 or higher)
21:43:31 <Gregor> (Since those relative offsets are frequently unexpressible)
21:44:01 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:44:24 <ais523> Gregor: well the obvious consequence of that is to make it a self-modifying machine-code-like language
21:44:30 <ais523> have the only flow control as unconditional goto
21:44:35 <ais523> that can be overwritten with other commands
21:45:14 <Gregor> But just to be clear, your units should be source digits, so that overwriting them doesn't give you much utility.
21:45:35 <Gregor> (i.e., the units are digits, not numbers)
21:50:32 <ais523> not sure what you mean there
21:50:40 <ais523> oh, you mean we store one digit per "byte"?
21:50:54 <ais523> and commands that take arguments read forward to the next command?
21:51:08 <ais523> actually, does that prevent the language being TC?
21:51:14 <ais523> or can you somehow extend the program?
21:51:15 <GreyKnight> so if you overwrite the second unit of 1234 to 5 you get 1534
21:51:21 <Gregor> ais523: I don't know, that's the question, innit :)
21:51:29 <ais523> and I can put this up on the wiki
21:52:21 <Gregor> "Ixün" is a play on Unix, in spite of the language having no relation to Unix whatsoever.
21:52:28 <FireFly> Oh, I'm a bit slow it seems
21:52:38 <elliott> ais523: how about look at the deletion log
21:53:06 <elliott> how about The Correct Way To Discover Credit Immediately
21:53:54 <Gregor> Hm, how do you get to the deletion log from the front page? >_>
21:54:15 <Gregor> Doesn't seem to be under special pages...
21:54:35 <FireFly> I bet you need to be in the admin group or something
21:54:39 <ais523> elliott: save it for another language?
21:54:46 <ais523> Gregor: there's a list of special pages
21:54:48 <ais523> one of them is the logs
21:54:51 <ais523> you can filter it to deletions
21:55:19 <ais523> it is kind-of hard to find if you don't know where it is, but it's public
21:55:19 <Gregor> Aha, it's under the complete log list, got it.
21:55:23 <elliott> Gregor: Special:Log/delete
21:55:48 <Gregor> How about Regulatory przeplywu?
21:56:31 <ais523> I'd prefer to save the deletion log names for languages which really can't sensibly be named anything else
21:56:31 <FireFly> Exactly what I was about to suggest
21:56:43 <zzo38> In Typographical Number Theory, the only literal number is zero; other than that you use successor operation, and addition and multiplication.
21:56:45 <elliott> ais523: you're not avant garde enough imo
21:56:47 <FireFly> przeplywu apparently means "flow"
21:56:50 <Gregor> ais523: Yeah, fair enough, I think we can get a real name here :)
21:56:51 <FireFly> regulatory flow sounds.. interesting
21:58:33 <Gregor> Well, my suggestion still stands. Radical Ixün.
21:58:51 <Gregor> If I don't like where you go with the language, I may fork for Radical Ixün anyway X-D
21:59:37 <Gregor> <Gregor> "Ixün" is a play on Unix, in spite of the language having no relation to Unix whatsoever.
22:00:07 <elliott> ais523: how about [[ais523s new grate esolang]]
22:00:43 <ais523> I like "radixal" and "radixulous"
22:00:48 <ais523> Gregor: it's not basic-like, though
22:01:02 <Gregor> In that it's all about (numeric) base.
22:01:22 <elliott> ais523: there are already multiple languages called Algol that are completely unlike each other, after all
22:06:34 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:08:58 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
22:11:31 <HackEgo> 531) <Phantom_Hoover> OK, making myself emergency doctor on the advice of IRC.
22:12:04 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
22:12:08 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
22:12:19 <FireFly> oh, right, I forgot that I was going to check homestuck out
22:16:05 <fungot> Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books)
22:16:21 <ais523> 531 would be better if it were <Sgeo> rather than <Phantom_Hoover>
22:17:06 <ais523> you need to know Sgeo's history, really
22:17:11 <Phantom_Hoover> GreyKnight, (that one was from that phase elliott went through of `addquoting my running commmentary on playing dwarf fortress)
22:17:27 <HackEgo> 475) <Patashu> it's the pain of the gaps argument <Patashu> no matter how good your robot is at feeling pain <Patashu> it's never close enough
22:17:41 <HackEgo> 720) <fizzie> [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice.
22:17:56 <HackEgo> 286) <Gregor> I use LiGNUXFCE+apps <Gregor> That's pronounced by saying "Linux" and then vomiting, btw.
22:18:03 <HackEgo> 351) <zzo38> Fiddle. It makes a big difference, you know.
22:18:10 <HackEgo> 306) <crystal-cola> http://www.sessionmagazine.com/img/nature/worlds-10-smallest-animals/worlds-10-smallest-animals07.jpg <crystal-cola> worlds biggest thumb
22:18:10 <elliott> that's one too many ais523
22:18:16 <ais523> it's because I was reading them
22:18:19 <ais523> rather than wanting to delete one
22:18:20 <olsner> what is this weird method of quoting, one quote at a time?
22:18:33 <ais523> "illegal" isn't misspelt
22:18:35 <ais523> you must be really angry
22:18:48 <HackEgo> 396) <oklopol> such a famous bisexual <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, like Marlon Brando. <Phantom_Hoover> And Caligula. <Phantom_Hoover> And... Keeley Hawes? <Phantom_Hoover> I feel cheated by Ashes to Ashes now.
22:18:53 <ais523> every now and then we `quote five times, then delete the worst
22:18:58 <ais523> in order to improve the average qdb quality
22:19:11 <ais523> you need several channel regulars there to do it
22:19:33 <elliott> i guess rules technically don't apply to me
22:19:42 <Deewiant> Do you do it in private queries? If not it's not sufficiently rogue
22:19:56 <ais523> elliott: you count as several channel regulars by yourself
22:20:02 <HackEgo> 276) <ZOMGMODULES> elliott: parents who put just "Chris" on a birth certificate are... like parents who put just "Bob" on a birth certificate.
22:20:03 <ais523> elliott, ehird, alise, ehird`
22:20:16 <ais523> I think all those nicks have been here enough to count as regulars
22:20:25 <HackEgo> 97) <fungot> alise: why internet is like wtf \ 101) <alise> like, just like I'd mark "Bob knob hobs deathly poop violation EXCREMENT unto;" as English <ais523> alise: that's great filler <alise> ais523: well it contains all the important words in the english language... \ 105) <fungot> alise: nobody is allowed to fnord me in soviet russia \ 109) <AnMaster> alise, marble <AnMaster> marbelus \ 110) <alise> cmake is a
22:20:46 -!- carado has joined.
22:20:49 <Gregor> `run head -n 1 /dev/urandom >> quotes
22:20:50 -!- Taneb has joined.
22:21:06 <olsner> hmm, it seems keeley hawes was excessively bisexualized by the press
22:21:07 <ais523> shachaf: I think it was an experiment into how people would react to a female nick
22:21:13 <ais523> and most of the more obvious ones were taken
22:21:25 <shachaf> `run head -n 1 /dev/urandom
22:21:27 <elliott> ais523 "future elliottologist"
22:21:27 <HackEgo> .C.3<i`3.Dk)0ͱ..N_(aO...qI.l!!.Ő|>c|ݢU...?.1Fme۽s.&!."醞μ}.*.....*.>C;'0
22:21:35 <ais523> what's that third character?
22:21:38 <elliott> GreyKnight: you made a mistake
22:21:42 <elliott> it should have been > not >>
22:21:53 <elliott> by GreyKnight i mean Gregor
22:22:02 <HackEgo> 24) SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): <ehird> i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce!
22:22:08 <shachaf> I say we kick GreyKnight now.
22:22:09 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo.hs
22:22:10 <ais523> GreyKnight: you need a unique first two characters of your nick, really
22:22:19 <ais523> AimHere must be annoyed by all my accidental /ctcp pings of him
22:22:22 <ais523> when I try to see if I'm connected
22:23:03 <ais523> http://qdb.rawrnix.com/?805
22:23:11 <olsner> Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeley_Hawes#Personal_life
22:23:14 <shachaf> ais523: #nethack is the worst channel.
22:23:20 <ais523> shachaf: there's /got/ to be worse
22:23:30 <HackEgo> 826) < kmc> but i mean i don't like jogging so i wouldn't like jogging while jerking off either
22:23:36 <Gregor> GreyKnight: Homophobe.
22:23:49 <ais523> just because worse exists doesn't mean you have to link it
22:23:49 <elliott> i think the worst quote is #ais523
22:24:00 <ais523> (/me thinks this should be added as a new Rule of the Internet)
22:24:17 <ais523> (it'd follow on neatly from rule… 36? not good at memorizing them by number)
22:24:18 <Gregor> ais523: Where's the radix language? On the wiki yet? Implemented yet?
22:24:30 <elliott> call the radix language Gregor
22:24:34 <ais523> Gregor: none of those yet
22:24:46 <shachaf> Gracenotes: You have to go too.
22:24:48 <Gregor> ais523: Finished the JIT yet?
22:24:51 <Phantom_Hoover> urban dictionary gives me 2 contradictory definitions of rule 36
22:24:55 <HackEgo> 183) <tswett> elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. <olsner> wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here? <nooga> what <tswett> Heck yes I'm elliott's uncle.
22:24:55 <GreyKnight> is #bearcave a homosexuality-related channel?
22:25:26 <ais523> Gregor: isn't that your job?
22:25:35 <Gregor> GreyKnight: Probably not on FreeNode, but classically that's used as trollbait because that's what “bear” refers to.
22:25:48 <ais523> yeah, it's not in most list
22:25:49 <elliott> classically i.e. non-constructively
22:25:54 <ais523> but in the ones where it is, it's 36
22:26:08 <HackEgo> 719) <shachaf> elliott: Anyway, if you wrote a Haskell book, I would read it and possibly provide classical criticism. <shachaf> That is to say, non-constructive.
22:26:11 <ais523> hahaha at the history of rule 35, btw
22:26:12 <GreyKnight> (I am only familiar with it from trolling and there isn't usually much context)
22:26:37 <ais523> it used to be "the exception to rule 34 is rule 34 itself", now it's effectively "violations of rule 34 will be corrected over time"
22:26:54 <HackEgo> 812) < oerjan> Gregor: hey no fair doing ungoogleable citations
22:27:01 <ais523> there is a beautiful irony, and perhaps a deliberate reference, in this
22:27:14 <Gregor> GreyKnight: I'm sure if you Google something like "bear -animal -mammal" you'll find the definition that matters pretty quick ;)
22:28:32 <ais523> calling rule 34 on things is typically a bad idea
22:28:45 <ais523> (this should also be added as a rule)
22:28:47 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: granny darted back, grabbed the pitcher of water from a fake buttonhole. ' no sense in rushing around the whole time! you will die for this.
22:28:55 <Bike> fungus porn is pretty cool to watch if it's made right
22:29:06 <Bike> undercrank and so on
22:29:12 <HackEgo> *poof* SUPLENTES EN UN UNIVERSO (MUSSOLINI CUANDO CONQUISTO EL MUNDO): <ehird> i tan solo puede concluir que es defectuoso, o el mundo esta absolutamente loco. Todos a la gloria Il Duce!
22:29:20 <olsner> maybe fungot's source is pornography if you look at it the right way
22:29:21 <fungot> olsner: " vorbis?" he said softly. there. done it myself."
22:29:23 <Gregor> Porn where the characters spew markov-chain-generated sequences of words?
22:29:50 <Bike> GreyKnight: video of the fruiting bodies doing their thang, etc
22:29:57 <Bike> some fungi shoot out spores like bullets!
22:30:02 <ais523> Bike: do you have a stalkword on rule 34?
22:30:15 <ais523> or did you just decide to unidle for the first time in ages at that exact moment?
22:30:22 <ais523> Bike: you set it as a word that your IRC client notifies you about
22:30:29 <ais523> I have one on "intercal", for instance
22:30:30 <olsner> lots of fungi (or maybe those are mushrooms?) have phallic shapes
22:30:31 <Bike> oh. no i just like fungi
22:30:34 <ais523> (only in channels you're in, obviously)
22:31:11 <Bike> not sure how it would work with befunge though, i guess you could probably write something avida-like on it fairly easily
22:32:07 <ais523> Bike: /please/ don't put too much thought into this
22:32:15 <ais523> (I know this is a fruitless request, but I feel compelled to make it)
22:32:35 <FireFly> Brainfuck porn? wait, damn, no, that's no good
22:32:47 <zzo38> I don't use any set as word my IRC client notifies me about (although it does have such a command)
22:32:52 <shachaf> FireFly: You have to go too.
22:33:04 <olsner> FireFly: it's just bricks and brains
22:33:21 <Bike> ais523: it's not like i'm interested in fungus reproduction because i get off on it, golly, i just think it's biologically interesting
22:33:24 <Bike> and alife is fun!
22:33:27 <shachaf> There's a new policy where the first two characters of your nick have to be unique.
22:33:28 <ais523> Fiora: the "no two people can share the same first two letters of their nick" theory
22:33:49 * ais523 fears they've created a meme
22:34:01 * Bike looks sidelong at boily
22:34:04 <ais523> Fiora: it's OK, I don't think anyone's enforcing the policy
22:34:05 <zzo38> O no, it is not bricks and brains. It is Brains&Flags which is a computer game I am designing just right now even.
22:34:11 -!- Sgeo|web has joined.
22:34:24 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: wouldn't xfiora be a GUI version?
22:34:27 <FireFly> Phantom_Hoover: and I to xFireFly?
22:34:31 <Fiora> I could become nepetiora
22:34:55 <GreyKnight> Bike: an Avidafunge sounds interesting
22:34:55 <Bike> would you do the :33 thing again
22:34:59 <zzo38> Does GNU C have the command to initialize specified element of array and make the rest zero? Can it be done with structures too?
22:35:02 <ais523> can I take this as evidence in favour of the birthday paradox?
22:35:24 <ais523> zzo38: yes, C99 has it; int a[100] = { [20]=4 };
22:35:34 <ais523> with structures, probably struct foo = { .bar = 12 };
22:35:37 <Bike> GreyKnight: i've ben asked to cease wondering about, sorry
22:35:39 <zzo38> In addition, does it support in LLVM-based C compilers?
22:35:41 <oerjan> <Bike> fungus porn is pretty cool to watch if it's made right <-- so i guess we want a befunge program that looks like fungus porn, and i _think_ it ought to be a quine.
22:35:55 <Bike> GreyKnight: guess it would kind of blur the line between cellular automata and programmin', though
22:35:57 <Deewiant> zzo38: Yes, clang supports C99.
22:35:59 <zzo38> ais523: So if it is top level will it initialize the rest zero?
22:36:16 <ais523> probably even if it isn't top level
22:36:21 <GreyKnight> what if we get more than ~1500 users in the channel?!
22:36:26 <ais523> having an initializer /at all/ makes unmentoined things default to 0
22:36:30 <ais523> GreyKnight: there are punctuation marks
22:36:36 <ais523> although that might not be enough
22:36:42 <ais523> also 26 squared is 676
22:36:52 * ais523 notices that their two criticisms cancel each other out
22:37:09 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, but you're implicitly disallowing different cases
22:37:10 <ais523> yes I refer to myself using singular they
22:37:10 <FireFly> the set of punctuation marks available in nicks is rather limited, isn't it?
22:37:17 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: well my tab-complete doesn't respect case
22:37:38 <Bike> haha is it really
22:37:44 <Fiora> Bike: do you want me to do the :33 thing again
22:37:48 <ais523> I always check that for random nick suggestions
22:37:52 <GreyKnight> 36 squared is about ~1200 and I rounded up a bit to try and compensate for the punctuation
22:37:53 <FireFly> Wait, what is the :33 thing?
22:37:55 <Bike> no dear, that's quite alright
22:38:37 <ais523> this conversation is somehow more surreal than average for the channel
22:38:47 <ais523> someone write a BF Joust program, I understand those
22:38:49 <Fiora> :33 < but i am pawsitive that you would enjoy it bike
22:38:54 <zzo38> I like the zero-length arrays of GNU C and I think C99 is flexible array; I prefer the way zero-length arrays work, I think it is more sensible with how C work generally.
22:39:18 <Fiora> :33 < nepeta's patterns of sp33ch are purrfect
22:39:40 <Fiora> :33 < sorry, i furgot about that
22:39:47 <Gregor> ais523: The radix language should have no symbols other than digits (and whitespace to separate them), and should allow binary, but should have different behavior depending on the radix you write the number in X-D
22:40:11 <ais523> Gregor: no, that would defeat the whole point
22:40:15 <olsner> ais523: which of the conversations were you referring to? the fungus porn, nick prefixes, array initialization or squares of numbers conversation?
22:40:26 <ais523> olsner: I can't actually tell them apart
22:40:28 <fungot> FireFly: dios gave him a long time the barge was passing between high orange cliffs now, banded with so many fine daughters to bring up the subject.
22:40:31 <ais523> apart from the array initialization one
22:40:42 <zzo38> Do the LLVM C compilers allow zero-length array to be specified in GNU mode?
22:40:50 <olsner> especially the squares thing, where the hell did that come from?
22:40:52 <Fiora> :33 < okay i will stop equius
22:40:54 <Gregor> ais523: Oh, I suppose it defeats the point in that the challenge is no longer figuring out how to encode a number, because you only have one or zero choices.
22:41:41 <Gregor> ais523: Well, you could make binary do one thing and all other radixes do something else. Basically I just don't want non-digit symbols :). I suppose the alternative is to have multiple numbers per operation.
22:41:45 <Gregor> Do a subleq or something.
22:41:46 -!- monqy has joined.
22:42:18 <ais523> Gregor: well if you're using code-is-data, you have to be able to store an entire number in memory
22:42:29 <ais523> I guess you write numbers into consecutive addresses
22:42:50 <ais523> so I guess you assign commands to numbers
22:42:50 <Gregor> Opcodes are not a unified length, they're whitespace-separated X-D
22:42:57 <ais523> for bonus points, mostly to unrepresentable numbers
22:43:01 <ais523> separate with whitespace
22:43:12 <Gregor> Errr, unrepresentable numbers can't be stored.
22:43:20 <GreyKnight> I came up with a language that used only digit symbols, but it wasn't too interesting
22:43:23 <ais523> representable numbers then
22:43:36 <ais523> should offsets be measured in numbers or digits?
22:43:44 <zzo38> Do you think zero-length array is much more logical than the C99 way? I think it makes a lot more sense. And there are some more uses other than just variable-length objects.
22:43:48 <Phantom_Hoover> GreyKnight, and your ability to realise that puts you head and shoulders above every other goddamn esolang noob.
22:44:07 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:44:14 <ais523> GreyKnight: Phantom_Hoover is particularly annoyed by people who make bad esolangs
22:44:22 <zzo38> It also means you can use sizeof; "Flexible array members have incomplete type, and so the sizeof operator may not be applied."
22:44:42 <ais523> zzo38: a flexible member is [], isn't it, not [0]?
22:44:59 <ais523> OK, someone convince me not to call this language Radixal, or I will
22:45:11 <zzo38> ais523: Yes. Zero-length arrays are different, and I think, more sensible than flexible arrays.
22:45:27 <ais523> zzo38: but technically, you can't index more than one element past the end of them
22:45:33 <zzo38> GCC also permits empty structures, which I also think is good to accept, having size zero.
22:45:33 <Gregor> ais523: I'm not opposed to Radixal, although I do wonder to what degree the language forming in your head is similar/distinct from the one forming in mine X-D
22:45:57 <ais523> hmm, I think it needs the exclamation mark
22:46:07 <ais523> particularly because I'm annoyed by words that end with exclamation marks
22:46:09 <zzo38> ais523: Well, if it is a structure then if you allocate more memory, then you could be able to index a larger size of it.
22:46:16 <ais523> and it feels appropriate to give the language a name that anonys me
22:47:07 <olsner> could also call it Radixa! or RadixaI
22:47:10 <ais523> that annoys meeven more, and now I want to use it
22:47:19 <ais523> do you prefer it to the one-exclamation mark version?
22:47:39 <elliott> ais523: imo as many exclamation marks as you can stand
22:47:46 <ais523> that's probably 4, then
22:47:54 <monqy> a rainbow of exclamation marks
22:48:02 <ais523> 3 is the limit of what's reasonable, so 4 is too many, and 5 is not significantly different to 4
22:48:22 <Gregor> 4 is the worst conceivable number.
22:48:23 <ais523> more than too many is not noticeably different to too many
22:48:44 <olsner> 4 is a good number, too many to be comfortable yet few enough that you can get the right number of them with good reliability
22:48:51 <monqy> radixal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:49:44 <ais523> yeah, my brain's getting hung up on typing this, definitely 4 is the right number
22:50:08 <GreyKnight> can the coloured exclamation marks be part of the name?
22:50:42 <elliott> ais523: what if i made the wiki show a random number of exclamation marks after any occurrence of "Radixal"
22:50:49 <zzo38> I think you could even use zero-length array as something to measure the size in order to use in a macro in order to expect the type of a variable if it is known a structure including a certain name.
22:50:56 <Gregor> Radixal!+ might be the first novel idea in esolangs in a year.
22:51:03 <olsner> GreyKnight: for the sole purpose of requiring a note on the wiki page that it should be spelled with colors?
22:51:19 -!- SingingBoyo has joined.
22:52:02 <olsner> hmm, I actually think a few of the emoji characters are supposed to be displayed with colors
22:52:13 <elliott> one of them even has a name involving colours
22:52:14 <olsner> uncertain if that made it into unicode though
22:52:23 * oerjan swats Gregor for ignoring Fueue -----###
22:53:04 <Taneb> Although the interesting bits of Fueue were unintentional
22:53:14 <FireFly> one? there's many unicode characters with a colour in their name
22:53:19 <FireFly> IIRC there's both Green Apple and Red Apple
22:53:20 <ais523> OK, so numbers that are out of the usual range for commands: should they be errors, NOPs, repeat other commands, or something else?
22:53:23 <elliott> `sed -i 's/design/design and deployment//' wisdom/welcome
22:53:25 <HackEgo> Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script-file to the commands to be executed \ --follow-symlinks
22:53:26 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/design/design and deployment//' wisdom/welcome
22:53:29 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 32: unknown option to `s'
22:53:30 <Taneb> It was originally "A bit like Underload, but with numeric literals and a queue instead of two stucks"
22:53:35 <elliott> `run sed -i 's/design/design and deployment/' wisdom/welcome
22:53:42 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:53:49 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
22:53:52 <ais523> someone, I need an opinion here!
22:53:56 <ais523> or failing that, a fact
22:54:13 <elliott> ais523: they should be something radically!!!! random!!!!
22:54:30 <elliott> ais523: maybe it prints something from a predefined list of phrases
22:54:37 <elliott> ais523: or reverses the program!
22:54:43 <ais523> come to think of it, we could just make them ever larger-based BUT instructions
22:54:53 <ais523> GreyKnight: Python doesn't have s/// notation
22:55:00 <elliott> make them do what X does in CHIQRSX9+
22:55:11 <elliott> this also means it's really painful to write an interpreter in anything but Perl
22:55:13 <ais523> elliott: but this language is interesting to determine if it's TC another way
22:55:51 <elliott> ais523: OK, then make it so that the Perl program it runs always starts with an invalid character
22:56:08 <elliott> ais523: anyway my point is it should do something completely stupid
22:56:35 <ais523> oerjan: just realised, ofc you can write a deterministic CHIQRSX9+ program that has a specific function; all one-capital-character words are legal in Perl (they return themselves), so you start with X; then write the rest of the program entirely with punctuation marks
22:56:59 <ais523> (which is /totally/ possible in Perl)
22:57:13 <ais523> does it rotate punctuation marks as well as letters?
22:57:13 <zzo38> But what if control characters?
22:57:21 <zzo38> I think it rotate everything.
22:57:28 <ais523> elliott: I guess it should just output the numbers in question
22:57:31 <elliott> $prog .= chr +(ord($_)+$lang & 255)
22:57:43 <ais523> it's the entire ASCII range
22:57:44 <elliott> ais523: output them but with "!!!!" after it
22:57:46 <ais523> yeah, that could be harder
22:57:49 <elliott> it's marginally more stupid to use one more ! for no reason
22:58:10 <GreyKnight> Output them with a number of exclamation marks equal to the number itself
22:59:21 <ais523> gah, typoed "Radixal!!!"
22:59:36 <ais523> this 4-! name is beautiful :')
23:01:29 <olsner> (hmm, for wiki-technical reasons, there should be a /// dialect called ###)
23:01:31 <GreyKnight> BTW does anyone have a link to a good clear explanation of monads? I was trying to explain it recently but don't think I was very good at it :-/
23:01:53 <GreyKnight> olsner: can we have a language called ---###
23:02:12 <ais523> <GreyKnight> BTW does anyone have a link to a good clear explanation of monads? I was trying to explain it recently but don't think I was very good at it :-/ ← please tell me this line was a particularly good attempt at trolling, rather than accidental
23:02:29 <olsner> GreyKnight: ask oerjan, maybe he'll make one
23:02:48 <GreyKnight> ais523, actual request and I don't know what you mean :-?
23:03:03 <ais523> GreyKnight: monad tutorials are a meme
23:03:08 <ais523> in the Haskell community
23:03:30 <GreyKnight> I didn't know that, I am not really involved with Haskell much
23:03:38 <GreyKnight> I take it the answer is "no" then? :-P
23:03:50 <elliott> tip: don't explain programming monads to someone without a functional-language-with-typeclasses-of-some-sort background
23:03:55 <elliott> because it is meaningless to them
23:04:04 <zzo38> olsner: I think there is a /// dialect called ### but it doesn't work
23:04:08 <elliott> (explaining monads the category theory concept is fine, of course, but won't really help a programmer)
23:04:19 <elliott> someone *with* that background should just go read the Typeclassopedia or something
23:04:39 <elliott> most of the ~monads are hard~ nonsense comes from people trying to understand monads without understanding what understanding monads is about
23:04:42 <elliott> the actual abstraction is mundane
23:05:20 <GreyKnight> that's http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Typeclassopedia , right?
23:05:46 <Phantom_Hoover> explaining monads-the-category-theory-concept is probably impossible for your average programmer, tbh
23:06:04 <elliott> your average programmer wouldn't ask in the first place
23:06:14 <GreyKnight> "Anyway, I think those people must actually be robots because there’s no way anyone could come up with that in two seconds off the top of their head. " I like this page already
23:06:16 <Bike> "monad tutorial fallacy"
23:06:17 <elliott> tip 2: usually don't say "average X"
23:06:36 <elliott> shachaf: should i commit something to lens. nobody has touched it in hours it feels weird.
23:06:39 <Phantom_Hoover> the comment was running too long, i cut "inexperienced-in-typclasses" short
23:06:46 <Bike> "a whole cottage industry of monad tutorials"
23:07:24 <ais523> "*Any string that contains nothing but <code>0</code>s and <code>1</code>s, and at least I <code>1</code>, is considered an error and crashes the interpreter. Although any sort of crash is acceptable and complies with the spec, we recommend segfaults, or on Windows, Blue Screens of Death."
23:07:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:07:58 <ais523> by the way, BSoDs don't exist any more because they made the screen red instead >:(
23:08:36 <Bike> i thought red was the xbox version
23:08:46 <elliott> shachaf: DONT SAY ZIPPER BENCHMARKS
23:08:50 <zzo38> Is blue in ReactOS?
23:09:22 <FreeFull> ais523: I thought both red and blue existed now
23:09:31 <shachaf> elliott: lens? I think that's finished.
23:09:46 <boily> aaaaaurgh... 10 hours straight...
23:09:56 <boily> (sorry. just had a long work day.)
23:10:01 <zzo38> At least an older screenshot I have seen of ReactOS shows the BSoD, so you can know that they did manage to make ReactOS at least that much.
23:10:02 <elliott> shachaf: I hate the renaming of Zipper to Zipping.
23:10:08 <olsner> ais523: if you're red/blue color blind, does the new screen of dead look the same as the old one?
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23:10:25 <fizzie> "Dec 7 23:56:11 nyx kernel: [20076405.959198] psmouse.c: Mouse at isa0060/serio4/input0 lost synchronization, throwing 1 bytes away." That's a new one for me.
23:10:26 <ais523> olsner: it's probably a slightly different shade of redblue
23:10:33 <ais523> also red/blue colorblindness isn't a real sort, AFAIK
23:10:41 <ais523> it's red/green, or blue/yellow, or not having color vision at all
23:11:05 <kmc> yeah, those are the two color representation channels
23:11:22 <olsner> ais523: ... and here I thought I was avoiding the whole "there are 13 kinds of color blind" trap
23:12:37 <GreyKnight> huh somehow I never heard about reactos
23:13:22 <olsner> elliott: screen of deađ?
23:13:27 <Bike> it used to be called somethng else, didn't it?
23:16:49 <HackEgo> 581) <zzo38> The fighting game I prefer is the card game Yomi
23:17:09 <FreeFull> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Classification
23:17:15 <oerjan> <GreyKnight> olsner: can we have a language called ---### <-- certainly not, that's the wrong number of -'s
23:18:12 <GreyKnight> how about an audio-based language that uses R2D2 beeps and squawks.
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23:20:01 <GreyKnight> maybe I should sleep before I get any more silly
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23:21:41 <oerjan> <elliott> shachaf: should i commit something to lens. nobody has touched it in hours it feels weird. <-- is it asymptotic? is lens achieving the singularity?
23:22:15 <olsner> stagnation => complete rewrite
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23:25:24 <oerjan> i got a little bit into the tutorial before my crashed
23:26:39 <elliott> lens has first-class patterns now!
23:27:18 <oerjan> i think it was something on github
23:27:24 <shachaf> elliott: Maybe prisms and lenses (and partial lenses) are the true answer to how view patterns should work.
23:27:51 * elliott would like to see -XViewLenses
23:28:04 <elliott> shachaf: Sometimes you might have a view pattern whose inverse is a pain, though.
23:28:11 <elliott> Like it would have to balance a tree or something.
23:41:05 <olsner> on lenses, or specifically this new lens library
23:41:27 <elliott> the tutorial is looking at the types real hard
23:41:30 <elliott> and then realising it's obvious
23:41:46 <elliott> olsner: here's a "quick sell" tho
23:42:11 <elliott> both f (a,b) = (,) <$> f a <*> f b -- multilens! (traversal)
23:42:19 <elliott> just _ Nothing = pure Nothing
23:42:28 <elliott> just f (Just x) = Just <$> f x -- partial lenses!
23:42:46 <elliott> (_1 :: (Functor f) => (a -> f a') -> (a,b) -> f (a',b))
23:42:58 <elliott> (both :: (Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> (a,a) -> f (b,b))
23:43:07 <elliott> (just :: (Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> Maybe a -> f (Maybe b))
23:43:16 <elliott> and then everything is just combinators on top of types like these
23:43:50 <olsner> seems a bit like a huge library of combinators for pointless programming
23:44:07 <elliott> olsner: also the cooler thing is that you can compose these with Prelude
23:44:10 <elliott> and it goes in "oop order"
23:44:21 <elliott> Prelude as in id and (.) on functions
23:44:38 <elliott> _1.just :: (Applicative f) => (a -> f a') -> (Maybe a, b) -> f (Maybe a', b)
23:45:04 <shachaf> olsner: edwardk is doing a talk thing on Wednesday which will be recorded.
23:45:08 <elliott> also you have things like "traverse" is a valid traversal (multilens)
23:45:24 <olsner> shachaf: talks are boring!
23:45:27 <elliott> traverse :: (Traversal t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f b -- fits the pattern of both/just
23:45:34 <elliott> traverse :: (Traversal t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f (t b) -- fits the pattern of both/just
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23:46:27 <elliott> olsner: hope i've sufficiently bamboozled you
23:47:38 <olsner> the readme at https://github.com/ekmett/lens was a decent introduction too
23:48:33 <shachaf> traverse :: Traversable t => Traversal (t a) (t b) a b
23:49:22 <elliott> olsner: anyway once you have all this infrastructure you can do cool things
23:49:30 <elliott> like a generic type-safe zipper for any type: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/lens/3.7.0.1/doc/html/Control-Lens-Zipper.html
23:54:52 <shachaf> What's a non-type-safe zipper?
23:56:32 <elliott> iirc pez is not "type-safe"
23:59:35 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Radixal!!!!
23:59:37 <ais523> tell me what you think